balance-feedback-discussion

[hollow canyon]

it isn't there but I have a suspicion that the turn rates of everything got nerfed and I think it's not intentional, growing a Utah right now, I will check it when it's fully grown.

[golden coral]

Yeah, dryo felt off, so its not just omni if there's something. I also think carno got hit with it due to new charge.

[frail bobcat]

why should they nerf omnis turn rate?

[hollow canyon]

I've played a tad bit of Carno and that thing turned pathetically - I haven't played it in like half a year but goddamn I'm pretty sure it didn't turn this badly. I mainly played Deino and goddamn Deino can't turn if its life depended on it

[golden coral]

And dryo for new dodge I guess. Not sure on omni honestly, but it could be just something else they wanted to do that is noticable on some of the playables.

[hollow canyon]

they shouldn't - I think they may have nerfed turn rates of everything but I'm not sure

Utah would be the most hurt one by this global nerf if it happened

[frail bobcat]

which is also bad

[hollow canyon]

it feels like that initial release of inertia

[frail bobcat]

imma check tommorow if it actually got nerfed

[golden coral]

I'd add dryo being hit hard by it too, but that's more so due to dodge stamina cost and speed nerf.

[quick latch]

you know what would fix this would be add one more nutrient to the bar later on when they go more in depth in gore and diets (and when more dinosaurs release)

[golden coral]

Hm, that could be a thing, but I doubt they would add more. But what would that do then, just adding an extra nutrient would just be well, another nutrient?

Would it be an extra slot for more combos, or an entirely new nutrient for the three slots we have?

Please elaborate! :D

[quick latch]

you have a ton more options for buffs for having varied diets and combos and could tie in with perks maybe different diets increase perk bonuses or unlock certain perks

[golden coral]

Alright, could work. But what would you add to the combo to make it worth it, and why not just add that to the current combo? If the issue is that its only good for growth, then what would you like to see that would be good for adults that isnt covered by the other combos?

[quick latch]

well i dont ahve a list of all the possible combinations but a balance between all the single diet buffs maybe or some sort of survivability bonus like better footprint tracking or something of the sorts

[golden coral]

Hm, that's an interesting idea. Not sure how well it'd work out in practice but there might be some potential there with tracking or the likes. Or maybe being able to eat rotten food, but that'd apply to carnis only, at least for now.

[quick latch]

yea maybe even with all diet bonuses you could eat a more varied diets or a perk that allows you to eat something out of your normal diet and eat something that normally would just give food and could give a new diet with its own bonuses and slot combos

[wintry mountain]

Im confused on where this Omniraptor stuff is coming from when its mobility was not changed

[frail bobcat]

Maybe they feel like it because carnos turn is so good

[wintry mountain]

Perhaps, Ik Carnos sprint turn/inertia is pretty poor right now, but the charge turn is decent

but everything can still out turn it

Perhaps its a placebo due to carno being able to hit things through their tails w/ charge(hitbox issue)

[frail bobcat]

I meant the charge turn

[wintry mountain]

CHarge turn is still far worse than everything else was my point

Still pretty easy to juke aside from the hitbox stuff

[frail bobcat]

The hitbox stuff messes me up too, was on a 30 ping server and still got tailhit (but I am bit rusty with dodging rn)

The other thing that annoys is how fast you can enable the charge

[wintry mountain]

Yeah i've seen first hand how ridiculous it can be, Carno just barely scraping the middle of your tail but still getting knocked down

[frail bobcat]

I tested it, literally 5-6 steps into the sprint animation

[wintry mountain]

the hitbox needs to be adapted to fit with the new turn

can afford to be more precise

[frail bobcat]

And the fact that ram is spamable

They made carno worse than u4 carno balancewise

[golden coral]

Was the acceleration/charge start changed?

[frail bobcat]

YES

[golden coral]

Also I guess that's what we get for "ambush carno" mentality.. :p

[wintry mountain]

its accel time was changed back in 5.5, yea

[frail bobcat]

But you should be able to bait a ram and then be fine for atleast a few seconds

[golden coral]

I meant in this patch. But if it was changed back then, then it should be the same now as before the patch?

[wintry mountain]

it wasnt touched this patch, no

[frail bobcat]

The issue is that they fix all the issues of a playable. Carno is the perfect example. The ram acc change in 5.5 to make ram more viable (which was fine), but then they also fixed the fact that ram was kinda easy to dodge (which was the only counter) AND they made buck super strong (all of those give carno a advantage in fights). They got rid of so many weaknesses at once

And the fact that the ram hitbox is messed up

And we know how messed up carno hitboxes end up for balance

[wintry mountain]

I'd like to see the accel time cut back a bit and have the hitbox adjusted personally.

Aside from that, I do want to see two of carnos AI options nixed from its diet given carnivore diets are all that more accessible, with its new found combat prowess and overall mobility, it doesnt need ai in all three spots

I do agree Carno specifically has a bit too much bucking damage, but that was a change in general that needed to be made across the board

as bucking was just detrimental in use for everything

[frail bobcat]

I wanna test out a strategy with omni to compensate that

More but shorter pounces that jump off before bucking

[wintry mountain]

That's what I do

I did combat tests with ST between Carno and 4 omnis

[frail bobcat]

And?

[wintry mountain]

Playing more agressive with shorter pounces to bait bucking is how we won

We found if you over committed and drained most of your stamina trying to pounce, Carno could mop the floor with you

[frail bobcat]

So my theory was right

[wintry mountain]

Alternatively, one group opted to bait charges and alt attacks so the player was low on stamina

and then began pouncing

[frail bobcat]

That is more risky tho

But carno needs some changes and it needs them now

I played duo utah today and we only saw carnos in like 1 hour of playtime

(not counting the dead baby teno in the shallows)

[hollow canyon]

I've seen a tonne of Carnos on some server where I was growing a Carno myself but while growing a Utah I didn't encounter a single one as Deino I encountered two. Overall I've seen more Utahs but than Carnos but both of these animals put together were less common than Deinos which were everywhere on every server I've played on.

to put into perspective just how many riverworms there were:

I've killed like half a dozen during a short break when I went to the centre

all sizes and all colours of the rainbow

[winter iris]

Anyway, I’ve always found interesting how, in this game, people are quite tolerant when balance is unfavourable to carno (meaning something is a bit too strong and easily kill carnos) , whilst there are soon hundreds of ppl complaining as soon as balance is favourable to carno. I personally don’t care too much as long as the game is fun, but guys, what did carnos do to all these many people? Hehe

[dusky surge]

small game hunter
most of the animals in this game are considered small game in comparison to carno
carno ends up being dominant because its niche demands it
people dislike carno

doesnt help that most of the game is also built around its favoured biome atm (which comes down to spiro being awful)

[hollow canyon]

^ pretty much

I think Carno might need some nerfs e.g. cooldown on its charge

but in general it is meant to be good vs most playables in the current roster so

[dusky surge]

if you were to place carno on an island with less constant plains all over the place, a variety of hotspots in different biomes and favouring different creatures, and with an ecosystem that varies to sizes above carno (even allo or alberto could help in this regard), we might be able to keep carno in a strong state, since its still reliant on staying in its lane (open plains, hunting smaller game)

[hollow canyon]

that's its whole thing

when larger animals come out it will very quickly become much worse

[winter iris]

Yea probably. My idea has always been that carno wasn’t particularly broken also when very strong (maybe too much), but that it was simply very good at what it was supposed to do, and that the real issue lied in the tiny roster ( lack of other mid tiers to play and able to counter carno) rather than in carno itself for the most part

[dusky surge]

so basically, the main balancing factors to carno aren't even really changes to carno

gateway and roster expansions are notable "nerfs" to carno that don't even directly nerf the animal

[golden coral]

All the while ignoring any problems with omni at that :p

[dusky surge]

gateway's use of more varied/larger water sources/crossings, and better designed forests would def leave some of its prey with options to escape

swimming has always been an weakness of carno, but it fails to come in handy when rivers can basically be boosted over due to their narrowness

[golden coral]

Also yes, roster issue applies to pretty much everyone. Carno has it "good", omni has it "bad", stego and deino outright lack any "ecosystem" to belong in, and so on :p

[dusky surge]

i truly believe that U5.5 carno, in a different ecosystem, would be considered unplayable garbage, but because it still had favoured prey and a favoured biome in most of its matchups, it came off as balanced

its the only reason i can imagine people saying that old carno was good and the buffs were unnecessary

im interested to see the results of slapping an animal like carno in an improved and diverse map like gateway, because i do think spiro has always been carno favoured

[tiny jasper]

Utah and Carno tables turned

[golden coral]

@distant torrent I don't think there were any blood pool changes this patch. Also the only nerfs to omni has been a general improvement in bucking (which omni also got for that matter), a decrease in the latch damage (though impact apparently does damage again now) and a very tiny increase to the recovery time on pounce miss, and the recovery time plus the bucking change were needed. Not sure on the latch change, so that could be changed again I guess.

[dawn falcon]

Teno wasn’t nerfed tf

I literally just tested the values today. It’s the exact same.

[dusky surge]

Isle paranoia

[golden coral]

@dense boughI think the sub carno thing is a result of the new and improved growth curve, for good or ill. Apparently sub stego also goes fast, or so I've heard.

[dense bough]

But 65 ;-;

And it does abt 25% hp to a full grown pachy

[golden coral]

Oh I agree, the speed is stupid, I was more so just explaining why it's that way, and why it''s "good and ill" because the growth change I believe is pretty good overall.

But there'll be balance passes, and hopefully a bit more dynamic growth for all the critters.

[dawn falcon]

Wait a goddamn second. Carno runs at 65kmh at subadult?

[dawn falcon]

Yeah. Dondi said he’s going to milk the hell out of the stress testers with combat testing between 6 and 6.5.

[golden coral]

Apparently yes. I didn't know how fast, but I did know it was stupidly fast. But since it came with the growth from what I've understood, i'm a little uncertain on how to feel because in general the new growth is really good.

[dawn falcon]

Iirc it will include the “can still attack even without stamina” mechanic

[golden coral]

Oh yeah,apparently so, wonder how that'll work.

[dense bough]

It’s crazy, they can also bully fg carnos

[dawn falcon]

I hopes it like how Wyatt’s idea was before it was recommended

[dense bough]

They just need to nerf the speed and it’s fine

[golden coral]

Of course, I'm just not certain how easy it is to fix just that while retaining the improved growth otherwise.

[thin mantle]

Charge also needs to get reworked or removed

[dawn falcon]

100-66% of your stamina = 33% increased attack speed

66-33% of your stamina = 0% (default) attack speed

33-0% of your stamina = -33% attack speed

That way your creature actually looks like it’s being worn out

[golden coral]

@chilly monolithI imagine what they want is a pack hunter focused on using pounce and wearing the prey down, especially wearing it down so it can't buck and defend itself. And I fnd the new bucking far better than the old, at least now it's worth using and working as a proper counter, as much as it can, as opposed to prior when it was almost worse for the target to buck than to not. And as a solo omni your chances of winning against a thing three times your size or greater should be quite limited, I'm not sure that is all that unfair. And if it's the "change" in playstyle you dislike, I suspect there might come other playables down the line that might fit better. Omni might not be meant to be this run and bite playable in the long run.

[thin mantle]

Plus omni is an attrition hunter, it's hunts are supposed to take long

[dense bough]

No, I think it just gets some getting used to along with they should fix the hit box and make it so tail hits barely do any damage with new charge

[thin mantle]

Charge lacks a counter, teno can't stop it because of the recurrently spawning hitbox which increases the likelihood of it taking priority over any other attack it engages with along with the speed of the attack relative to the carno's hitbox...plus in order to land a kick or tail slam you need frame perfect timing as that's how long the hitbox lasts for...this was already difficult to land on carnos that you DID dodge...let alone carno's you CAN'T dodge...which is the case now since the turn rate of charge supersedes the rate at which a teno can move laterally away from you....it's not even remotely balanced...and that's JUST teno's matchup with it

[golden coral]

The hitbox needs work. And honestly, I'd remove the knockdown, and add either a "manual" headswing that works on things up to half of carnos size or so, or just have it bite normally, and keep the "charge" for increased turn radius. That way carno can lean into small game pursuit hunter better, instead of this weird "We want it to hunt small game but we design it to be bad at it".

[thin mantle]

Ideally a lil swing or focus mode over charge....pls and thank you :>

[golden coral]

Focus mode + a headswing for knockdown and kill confirm on smaller things. Not quite sure how teno should be handled, if it's within prey range or not and if so, how to go about that.

[thin mantle]

Well as the upper limit of it's viable targets it's ability should probably not be too relevant to that matchup, carno's raw stats would be the thing that enables that matchup as it's niche is distinctly outside of that matchup

[zenith knot]

i was wondering if anyone thought the carno charge hitbox was a bit strange, lol. I've been killed twice now by carnos who have charged my omni and hit its tail - knocking me flat to the ground. Is this a me problem or has this been an earlier debate?

[dense bough]

Yeah I won’t lie teno is pretty screwed but other than that it’s not that hard to counter

If pachy gets a trade off the carno is stunned longer than it so pachy can get a leg break or a body fracture

[thin mantle]

Nothing else can counter it aside from utah if it's already favorably positioned to dodge it....

Oh damn I forgot about pachy...pachy is busted this patch anyway soloing carnos isn't all too challenging rn

[dense bough]

And carnos Stam runs out in abt 25 seconds of sprinting with a body so pachys can run it down with ease

[thin mantle]

Both pachy and carno got overtuned but carno especailly so

[dense bough]

Pachy honestly just needs a little bleed resistance nerf and it’ll be good

It’ll be a glass cannon expect for the fact that teno still gets screwed

[thin mantle]

If it lands a leg fracture on a carno the carno dies...there's nothing it can do from that point...if a pachy lands....an attack...on a teno the teno dies....and a teno cannot counter a charging pachy because again...moving recurrently spawning hitboxes nearly always take priority and are MUCH easier abilities to land

[golden coral]

Sounds reasonable, and would also make more sense to pair up against a teno, since it's less hunting and a bit more fighting.

Not that you would need it, more so that it'd be helpful.

[thin mantle]

Which should be carno's weakest area...so I think it checks out

[golden coral]

The hitbox is off yes. Its not your fault, the carno is just being dumb again, like with its bite ^^

[thin mantle]

The main issue is that charge has the same type of hitbox issues that pounce and ram do only worse...like charge unironically has magnetism

[golden coral]

Pachy needs to not be able to stagger/stunlock things. I don't think the bleed res is a bad thing though, since it's bucking should be the same, and it wasn't that good a spot for pachy in earlier patch last I recall.

[thin mantle]

Because of the mobile recurring hitbox along the animation's uptime

[golden coral]

Fantastic... xD

[thin mantle]

Tbh pachy's ability to tank bleed damage or not is borderline irrelevant to it's most crucial issues...that's balancing on the part of it's matchup with omni alone...that can be addressed after it's mechanics are functioning in coalescence way with he rest of the game xD

[wispy kite]

Are you a troll, or a clown?

[golden coral]

Neither.

[tidal lichen]

Right, you’re the entire circus.

[golden coral]

No, not that either.

[thin mantle]

Pachy not being able to stunlock is somehow a hot take now LMAO

[golden coral]

Well, I guess it could be something else. But most likely, they're just doing what they "accused" me of, since there's nothing I've said that could possibly justify that kind of response, much less out of nowhere.

[thin mantle]

Not that the response has any substantiation, so it's functionally worthless

[tidal lichen]

Honestly, yes you are an entire circus. Like smaller animals never try to kill larger animals when they have the chance to.

Not everything in the game is just food for your carno.

[thin mantle]

Omni would like to disagree

[golden coral]

What are you even on about? At no point have I said that a smaller animal never can try, or even succeed, at killing something larger, much less if there's a reasonable opportunity.

[golden coral]

You do realize omni classes as "small" and carno is the "small game hunter", designed for that, right? So yes, it should hunt omnis, not the other way around. There are plenty of other, better target, when they are introduced to the roster.

[wispy kite]

You said it’s good that Utah got nerfed, so it can no longer kill Carnos and you said pachys stun should be removed so your baby turkey Carno has it easier.

[golden coral]

No, I suppose it should all be food for the omni instead, because that somehow makes more sense (no, it does not, look at the roster and you'll see). As a matter of fact, pachy, omni and dryo would be targets for carno, as well as younger members of teno and carno and stego.

[wispy kite]

Raptors are pack hunters, and pack hunters are hunting big/really big game.

[golden coral]

First of all, I'm pretty sure omni can still kill carno. Second, with how pachy works, yes the matchup is quite terrible. Not as bad as pachy vs teno, but still. How pachy functions is an issue, even if you don't understand that.

[wispy kite]

And currently raptors can’t even fight Carnos in packs smaller than 5

[golden coral]

There are exceptions, such as a larger thing designed to hunt them, or in the case of stego, an animal designed to defend it's flanks.

[tidal lichen]

Im not saying a raptor should 1v1 a carno. I’m just saying when 8 raptors fight against one carno, then the carno should either run away or fight and die instead of killing all 8 raptors.

[golden coral]

It's not a perfectly black and white small or large, and it shouldn't be. Not for omni, and not for carno.

[wispy kite]

You never played pachy if you believe that. There were no pachy players last version. It needed a serious buff.

[golden coral]

And I am saying that I doubt it suddenly takes 8 omnis to kill a carno.

[golden coral]

I have. And you don't know how pachy works if you don't understand how they can stunlock targets to death.

[wispy kite]

It actually does. Carnos now outturn raptors. They even lost their one advantage.

[golden coral]

The turn change, if there is one, is not something I've argued for.

[tidal lichen]

So you’re telling me you actually don’t actually play raptor and therefore have no real clue about how it is to play raptor. Ok.

[golden coral]

My comments have been concerning bucking mostly.

[golden coral]

I do play it. And I can't see anything that would justify the belief that it takes a max pack to now kill a single carno.

[tidal lichen]

Maybe when all raptors are at 100% growth, which is rarely the case.

[wispy kite]

You are a troll. It’s confirmed now

[golden coral]

And they should not be fully grown? Of course they should. Assuming the carno is also fully grown at the least.

[golden coral]

I am not. I am providing arguments and reasons as to why I disagree with your exaggerated takes.

[wispy kite]

Sub adult Carnos currently kill 3 adult raptors. That’s the issue. If you don’t see that, then you never played raptors bro.

[golden coral]

And I did point out that if there is a turning change, then that is not something I've taken into account. Precisely because there's a bunch of different statements on if there really is a change or not.

But I think the bucking change is good, both the general buff to bucking and the weight/power thing added so juvies can no longer abuse the pounce. I also don't think pachys bleed res buff is likely to be a problem, not when pachy can stunlock and stagger things, which is a far greater problem, and something both carno and especially teno suffer from (not to mention that teno can't really defend itself from a pachy at all).

[wispy kite]

But there is, Carnos turning speed is faster than it ever was, while Utahs was nerfed for some reason. Carnos now have a charge hit box that works outside the model. And the damage output was buffed for some stupid reason as well.
The way this is going, is a carno overpopulation worse than before U5.

[golden coral]

Subadult carno might be a bit overtuned for what it is, though if it's the effects of the new growth curve, I will still consider that acceptable because the growth curve in general is a massive improvement for all playables. And certainly much better than getting 90% of your power the last 10% of your growth. But I didn't make any specific statements concerning sub carno either, so you're kind of picking out a specific circumstance as if that's somehow meant to negate the arguments in general.

[golden coral]

Okay, let me clarify. I feel that there is a change, not just for omni but dryo as well. But the only confirmed changes are ptera and carno. Nothing else. This has been stated by people that should know. There might be some bug, or otherwise unintentional change, but if you look in the patch notes, no mentions of turn or anything is under omni.

And yes, I've also mentioned somewhere, if not here, that the charge hitbox is a bit wonky. This has been stated earlier.

[wispy kite]

Oh boy, I am out. Go and enjoy your 80% Carno population and claim it to be acceptable.

[golden coral]

If you're going to just jump at me from literally out of nowhere, since none of you were involved earlier, then you could at least have the good grace to point out what specific points I've said that you disagree so vehemently with.

[golden coral]

Despite the fact that I at no point have said that's good or anything I want. But sure, keep ignoring what I've actually argued for, that is sure to help us both!

[thin mantle]

That conversation was hard to watch...

[obtuse ocean]

You mean i can play something else then utah now and dont go , why the hell do i play this when i can play utah.

[thin mantle]

None of these creatures are above serious criticism....pounce is still a fundamentally flawed mechanic with VERY little skill expressive interactivity or difficulty....charge is the same way only less on a mechanical level but a statistical one...it's FAR too easy to use and it's VERY powerful...both animals are overtuned to hell..they're now clashing in their overtuned states and carno is coming out on top...this shouldn't be a "woe is me" kind of realization for omni's....both need reworks or nerfs in various ways, don't let the current matchup take away from that

the only reason pounce isn't a massive issue rn is because buck was buffed to basically render pounce a mid strength ability instead of a demonstrably OP one...this is only a bandaid on a gaping wound the mechanical interaction is still barren of skill expression from both parties because the mechanics are so simple and lacking limitations...

Buck wouldn't need to be this strong if pounce was even remotely difficult to land on most animals...it's not hard...the illusion that it is outside the context of sub carno is false...the rewards are just low because of how powerful buck is...
The buck/pounce interaction remaining as it is or reverting to it's former are both terrible...the abilities need to change their stats can't just be altered...they aren't yet complicated enough to allow a player to use them creatively...or rather with the need to use them creatively

Addressing these issues needs to come first before rebalancing the animals AGAIN

I don't know how my points are incorrect but my conclusion based on the points is correct somehow...

Could you explain guess

k guess not :p

[golden coral]

Correct, we really do need a better pounce as a mechanic, that requires some form of skill and aim and all. We also need better buck and pounce interaction, and then there's lunge. And pachy CC vs teno, and carnos charge, and so on. At least now buck is more or less a proper counter to pounce, so that's good at least. Though I'd argue bucking should still remain strong enough to be the primary reaction and "counter", even if pounce had some skill requirements added to it.

And if there's any playable that should be unhappy currently, it's probably teno and dryo. Teno because pachy being the menace it is and being even more so now with better hit detection and all, and dryo because it got a new dodge, but at the same time nerfs to make the dodge not very attractive to use.

[tiny knoll]

@wispy kite While you are free to disagree with feedback done by others, the misuse of reactions is not appreciated. Please be respectful and civil to other users.

[slim dragon]

I think these guys got mad at you Erik because they instantly assumed you were asking to remove pachy's stun altogether although you were only talking about stunlocking.

[golden coral]

Possible, though they also seem to be unhappy about me claiming that the omni changes are fine. But that could come down to the potential issue of turn change and if that's a thing or not. Which I have not taken into account in my arguments because well, I don't know what to think of that situation honestly.

And I don't think I have a solution to pachy right off the bat, except that it's the CC and not damage that the problem is about.

[thin mantle]

I don't think it's impossible for a world to exist where pachy doesn't stun animals 5 time it's size...but other changes would need to come with that...you can't just take that away and expect it to work

[golden coral]

Was thinking of that too, that if I were to argue that stuns should go entirely, then obviously that would come with other changes as well. But far as I know, it's the whole "I can just stun you, wait out your cooldown because you're fractured, and then rinse and repeat until you're dead". Or at least I think it goes something like that.

[thin mantle]

It'd need to come with heavy considerations and a well detailed and realized vision of how pachy deals with it's current threats differently...it'd be hard to suggest but possible

[keen plover]

Got to love balance feedback after an update. Always turns into a scrap

[frail bobcat]

yes

but they are kinda right about stuff

[keen plover]

I just hope we don't have another yo-yo update. Carno nerfed into hell then teno and omni are buffed to insane heights.

[frail bobcat]

so like the last three updates?

[keen plover]

Yeah

[golden coral]

Only the last three? :p

[keen plover]

^

[golden coral]

Dondi has said something about doing balance between these updates or however it went, so hopefully that'll sort things out properly.

[frail bobcat]

carno needs some adjustments, the ram turn needs to be a bit worse and you need to make the time longer when you can activate ram, not after 5 steps into the animation (i tested it)

[keen plover]

With ST, yeah

[golden coral]

I still hope we can rework the charge rather than just turn it back, but then I dislike current charge anyway so there is that.

[keen plover]

The ability is either useful (OP) or worthless against good players

[golden coral]

And on top of that, its just a stupid mechanic for a carno!

[frail bobcat]

this

[keen plover]

I got charged only a handful of times in update 5. Which was months long

[frail bobcat]

also this

if you were ready, it was useless

[golden coral]

Well, prior charge you kind of had to let the carno hit you. This one at least seems hard to avoid, too hard due to hitbox and stuff.

[frail bobcat]

especially with omni

[golden coral]

But maybe if the hitbox is fixed, it wouldn't be quite as bad.

[keen plover]

Yeah

They need to make omni more agile again (revert mouse turning changes for it at least)

I do like the direction of needing to be in a pack for pounce to be effective

Double pouncing + is really effective

[golden coral]

More so bucking actually being useful and not more likely to be a quicker death for you :p

[keen plover]

While solitary hunters can't punch up

[frail bobcat]

this is so painful, omni needs its agility to be viable

[keen plover]

I think they went about it the wrong way. They made Carno strong while it has stamina, but the moment you're out - the turn means you can't defend yourself at all

[golden coral]

Wait, walk turn bad?

Like, turn in place?

[keen plover]

It feels worse at least. With mouse turning.

One sec. I'll look through the patch notes again

The thing with the patch notes are, a lot was left out

It didn't highlight that dryos speed was nerfed

[frail bobcat]

bruh

[golden coral]

There's nothing in them about any turning changes, aside from carno sprint/charge

[keen plover]

Nor did it say pachys damage was buffed

[alpine plover]

Fr

[golden coral]

Right, dryo speed isn't mentioned

[keen plover]

I can't even say it's accurate

[golden coral]

Yes

[keen plover]

Who honestly knows what was changed

[alpine plover]

Yeah they really messed up with the changelog - they didn’t mention a lot of crucial things

[keen plover]

The turning feels worse while defending, yet it's only a feeling so I can't say it 100%

[golden coral]

Is that confirmed?

[keen plover]

Yes

125n charge

[golden coral]

I would agree, I felt the same with dryo.

[keen plover]

[alpine plover]

Like devs I get you’re tired but at least mention the things you did change

[frail bobcat]

I couldnt dodge carnos as well as before, omnis turn is definitly worse

[keen plover]

Movement is one of the most fun things this game has done, and now it's worse. Sad to see, but it will likely change in the future

[golden coral]

I don't know why turning was changed for everything, I don't think that was something anyone usually complained about

[frail bobcat]

this. Nobody saw a issue with it, but it was changed anyway

[keen plover]

It was, imo, perfect

[frail bobcat]

yes

nothing felt unnatural

[slim dragon]

Except ptera

[frail bobcat]

yes

[mint hill]

I want my old omni back -.-... it's no fun playing it anymore since you are now clunky, and instantaneously bucked when you pounce anything. And what's worse, you got Carnos now running around with a charge length of a Lance and the width of a hammerhead shark 1 shotting anything. Even if it hits the tip of your tail, you're just simply useless against those pigs now.

Dealing with carnos was already bad enough, but now even a full omni pack can't take down a single carno now.

[wintry mountain]

I am once again wondering where people see Omni movement changes made

It just flat out didn't happen

[blazing vault]

for people who play raptor its really obvious... now even patchy has a better turn radius than a raptor

[wintry mountain]

As someone who plays raptor, I can't say I concur

[short orbit]

Same here.
There were changes but not in this field for sure.

[wintry mountain]

The changes were it's pounce fail recover and pounce damage

Pachy I know hits a lot more reliably, which could add to making omni feel less agile.

Carno charge has a oversized hitbox which is an issue

[blazing vault]

the also changed its bite force too which wasn't mentioned... theey dont always put all the changes in the changlogs

[stark knoll]

What bite force change?

[wintry mountain]

That happened two updates ago

In up4

[stark knoll]

The increase? What Nova said

[chilly monolith]

I would agree that there needed to be a new bucking system OR a debuff to Utah’s bleed. Now with a new bucking system, a debuff to Utah’s damage as a whole, AND increasing the turn radius, the utah has turned into something I don’t agree with. Furthermore, would it be realistic for a Utah to solo a carno? I think that’s in a grey area. It could go either way. However, people like to play it that way. Utah mains like that challenge, because it is not easy. In update 5 it was not easy. The average utah stood no chance in soloing other Dino’s. But if you practiced and learned the utah and learned the other Dino’s and became skilled, you stood a chance. That is all Im saying I guess, give the utah a chance. With everything debuffed it isn’t fair or fun anymore because it stands no chance. A pack of 8 utahs struggle super hard to kill a single carno, a single pachy too. It honestly feels impossible. If the devs have a different plan for Omni that’s okay. Then make a new dino. Make the Omni while keeping the original utah (with a debuff to bleed or something)

[alpine plover]

Give larger dinos the ability to buck, bite, kick, thrash around, something to fight back against a gator lunge.

It's a very cheap and boring mechanic. It should be VERY powerful, but a 2-tonn dino would be a mouth full for ANY croc. Especially, if it's kicking around and thrashing around, you just may be able to break free.

[stark knoll]

Both the target and the deino lose stamina when lunged, buck is basically built in

[alpine plover]

I understand, but it's minimal. Gives 3 hour dinos zero ability to fight back.

When in reality, it wouldn't be a one shot kill in some cases and some cases it would be.

I think it's a great mechanic, but could be refined to give players investing more time in their dinos some kind of chance that slightly mimics reality. I understand it's game, but the devs do strive for some kind of realism.

For example, when you watch videos of lions crossing water, crocs do attack them, but the lines thrash and bite back and sometimes fend them off and some times they don't.

But we get an instant three-hour end button with no ability to have any kind of game mechanic to make it interesting to die or to get away.

[hollow canyon]

it would be simply due to the size difference, it's much bigger than between any lion and a Nile croc. Deino just dwarfs every other animal in the game aside from Stego

[hexed sorrel]

who decided the ram buff was a good idea

[alpine plover]

Definitely needed. It's pretty balanced now against utahs.

It was pretty much useless before, I never used it neither the people I met up with. Too much stamina for too little gain.

[hexed sorrel]

ur not serious are you

I killed 3 tenos with only ram

[alpine plover]

Yes, the Balance discussions blew up about how bad it was. You should have seen it.

[frail bobcat]

Not needed to that degree and the hitbox is the real issue (I heard that is it broken again)

[alpine plover]

You're lying. I rammed a Utah about 4 times and it was still running around.

I think the server has a little bit of sync issues atm with the lag.

[frail bobcat]

Tailhits exist

[frail bobcat]

No, the ping is better

I used to get 80 ping, now I get 40

[alpine plover]

3 Tenos could easily kill you if you ran out of stam as a Carno.

That's why I know you're lying about it.

They weren't adults if you did

[frail bobcat]

Carno charge is super op rn

It could be possible

[alpine plover]

It's not op at all. It's actually something that can be used, and it's still easy to miss

And uses up a good bit of stamina

[frail bobcat]

That was reduced lmao

[alpine plover]

It needed to be, it was USELESS before.

[frail bobcat]

It needed better turn, but not to this degree

Its too good

[alpine plover]

That's why they changed it because everyone was saying how bad it was, now it can actually be used and not be a death sentence.

It's not too good, at all. Tenos still easily kill you if you run out of stamina so does a utah

[frail bobcat]

Also the fact that you can start your charge 5 steps into the running animation is ridicolous

[alpine plover]

You should be able to because everything out turned you before

[frail bobcat]

That is the thing with charge

The counter to it that it gets outturned

[hexed sorrel]

NAH

I just got rammed by a carno

[alpine plover]

Nah, you just enjoyed Carnos being useless and a small threat

[hexed sorrel]

that was standing still pretty much

[alpine plover]

When a bear charges you ... you don't see a wind up.

have you seen it's legs? It's made to charge you.

[hexed sorrel]

its 1800 KG

[alpine plover]

Of pure muscle

[hexed sorrel]

with 2 legs

[frail bobcat]

No, I was asking for carno buffs back in u5 times

[mint hill]

Bears are pretty fast tho >.>

[hexed sorrel]

muscles can only do you so much

[frail bobcat]

And I told you that carno charge needed a buff

[alpine plover]

A brown bear will instantly charge you and knock your ass over. If it can do it, a 4 ton muscle machine can do it to.

[frail bobcat]

But not to this degree

[hexed sorrel]

guys

I cant dodge the ram

[alpine plover]

Yes, the carno is in a decent state now. 2 utahs are a threat to a carno if it's not careful.

[hexed sorrel]

even if I get hit on the tail

[alpine plover]

The charge can ACTUALLY be used.

[hexed sorrel]

it does 20% health

[hexed sorrel]

I used it plenty times before

had no problem

[alpine plover]

Nah, you didn't, the balance was blown up about how bad it was.

[mint hill]

Iv been instantly killed by carnos as an omni by them charging the tip of my tail. Not a big fan of it.

[alpine plover]

Charge can actually be used in combat and you're upset?

[frail bobcat]

That was lag

[mint hill]

Maybe

[alpine plover]

That you cannot out turn the carno in every little thing? You can still easily out turn the charge

I've been fighting Utahs all day.

[frail bobcat]

Charge can be used too well in combat and this is why we are upset

[alpine plover]

It's not

[hexed sorrel]

it isnt a charge anymore we should call it run

[alpine plover]

You can ACTUALLY use it in combat without it being a death sentence if you miss one.

Before hand, if you knew what were you doing, charge was bad idea to use in combat.

[hexed sorrel]

if you miss one your already 60 ft

[alpine plover]

Unless you had the surprise.

[hexed sorrel]

away

which is the whole point

[alpine plover]

It's not. A bear will charge your ass whether you have surprise or not just as fast.

You guys are upset the Carno can actually be a threat again. I was hunting Carnos by myself as a utah .. now you need 2 of them and 3 you better run

[bright oasis]

Guys my small prey hunter omni cant solo a full grown carno anymore that over 2x heavier, game ruined and dead 😭😭😭

[alpine plover]

Exactly

All those people are upset they cannot instantly out turn a 4 torn muscle machine.

In every single situation

You can still out turn it in, but by god if we hit that tail they freak out.

[hollow canyon]

I'll be honest - not a big fan of what they did with Carno - it's nice that it got some help but... that's not what I think should've been done with it

[bright oasis]

I've seen a lot of these peoples feedback and half were Utah mains on legacy so...come to any conclusion youd like.

[hollow canyon]

it went the way of the Utah - from a trash to having its ability overtuned

[alpine plover]

The carno is in a decent place, it's not over powered, 2 Utahs balance a Carno out.

[hollow canyon]

both land carnivores now have a very one-dimensional playstyle

[alpine plover]

It's not over tuned ... you're just not able to out turn the carno in every single instance in the game. Now you actually have to try.

[hollow canyon]

I think its charge hitbox is slightly too big from what I've heard and I think it might need a cooldown on that ability but other than that I think it's ok

[alpine plover]

It's bull you guys are complaining about a dino that is literally made to knock you over and bite you.

[frail bobcat]

Experienced Players like Poutinne and nappn said that carno is op and onni is useless now. Imma rather trust people that play that game for hours per day and know what they are talking about

[alpine plover]

Onni is not useless, I almost died to 2 utahs earlier and I'm decent, not the best but okay.

[frail bobcat]

Yes, the hitbox is also messed up

[alpine plover]

I ran away.

[frail bobcat]

I ran over two omnis as a 50% carno earlier

[alpine plover]

Utahs just aren't soloing everything on the server.

[frail bobcat]

I never said, that it should be like that

[alpine plover]

Omg ... you ran out two players with different skill elvels. it's op!!

[hexed sorrel]

cross

[alpine plover]

It's OP guys!! There's no player skill level in the game!

[hollow canyon]

it's not the only one that's messed up, trust me

[bright oasis]

Omni was literally busted to win almost any fight before. They're mad cause omni now has a small hunter niche. I ain't listening to these people.

[hollow canyon]

have you seen Deino's lunge on this update?

I got hit from 20 feet away

[hexed sorrel]

LMAO yeah

[hollow canyon]

as in - it bit the air 20 feet behind me and killed me

[alpine plover]

Carno is not OP. It can charge, and be out turned just like before, you just don't get as much forgiveness to screw up as before.

[hollow canyon]

idk what they did with those abilities but they connect way too well

that needs to be toned down

[hexed sorrel]

it could always charge

[hollow canyon]

for both of these animals

[alpine plover]

Utahs an always pounce.

[hollow canyon]

then maybe some cooldown on the charge

and I think it's ok

[alpine plover]

Your cooldown is the stamina it takes ..

[hollow canyon]

bucking might need to be toned down too

[hexed sorrel]

now the carno is OP, if its bite was disabled it would still thrive

[alpine plover]

It stil sucks it dry.

[hollow canyon]

nah, that's not how cooldowns work

[frail bobcat]

They didnt say that the changes should be reverted. They even suggested better changes for carnos (look at nappn suggestions in #balance-feedback)

[alpine plover]

Carno is not OP. It's a 4 ton animal with its nearest competitor weighing 800 pounds

Wtf are you talking about.

[hollow canyon]

don't get me wrong - Carno was trash last update, it needed help but I don't think this is necessarily what it needed

[frail bobcat]

Its a 1.8 ton animal

[alpine plover]

HEY GUYS!! A 800 pound Raptor cannot solo a 4 ton dino!!!

[hollow canyon]

it's not 4 tons, it's like 2 tonnes

[alpine plover]

1800KG is 4 tons

[hollow canyon]

no lol

[frail bobcat]

No, its 1.8 tons

[bright oasis]

Game ruined I'm smashing my keyboard. Dondis fault

[frail bobcat]

Its both the metric system

[hollow canyon]

an imperial ton is ~900kg so it would be 2tons

[alpine plover]

Hey guys!! A dino that's way bigger than man rammed me OMGGGG

[hollow canyon]

not really

[alpine plover]

OMG it's OP!!! It rammed me!!

[hollow canyon]

a "tonne" is metric = 1000kg

[frail bobcat]

Imperial system is cringe

[alpine plover]

Such bull

[frail bobcat]

Ton

[bright oasis]

Oh gosh I wasnt paying attention to my surroundings, I got rammed omg game is in shambles pls nerf carno

[frail bobcat]

1000kg = 1 ton in metric system

[hollow canyon]

that's 2000lbs

[hexed sorrel]

4 ton? we are talking about carno

[alpine plover]

You guys want the carno to be the least threat possible when it's in a decent position. It's not OP, it's not bad. It hits where its weight class should hit.

[frail bobcat]

Yes

[hollow canyon]

tonne=/=ton

[alpine plover]

It's not the Carnos fault there aren't other dinos out there.

[hexed sorrel]

carno is pretty much a car at this point.

[alpine plover]

For its weight class the Carno is perfectly balanced right now. Your problems are there aren't enough dinos to compete.

[hollow canyon]

1 ton(aka short ton) is 2000lbs = 907kg

[bright oasis]

Omg the bigger dino is stronger wtf happened to balance literally an unplayable mess

[alpine plover]

It's not the Carnos fault there are a lack of dinos.

[hollow canyon]

1 tonne(aka long ton) is 1000kg

[frail bobcat]

im extremely upset over what you have done to the utahs.. Literally completely unplayable.. If you choose to play utah you have simply cursed yourself. The only 2 playable dinos atm is carno and pachy and pachy will be the new apex predator with how you also made the carno feel like a legacy dino with only 1 optional fight style. What you should do is reverse all of the balance changes and only leave the missed pounce annimation and make the stam drain while being bucked off slightly higher NOT 40% per tick like it is right now. Give carnos their mobility and old ram back but maybe increase the turn while ramming slightly. As of now the game has never been in a worse state.
This is what nappn suggested. Tell me how that makes carno a small threat

[hollow canyon]

aka 2200lbs

I know it's confusing but I wasn't the one that created imperial

[wintry halo]

Carno feels like its on cruiser mode

[frail bobcat]

Nvm its actually pretty bad

The pachy part is weird

[alpine plover]

Nappn had a bad opinion. The carnos are great where they are for its weight class.

Utahs can fight carnos 1v2 just fine. Been playing all day.

Nappn sound like another utah baby that isn't going around slaughering the whole server.

The Carno and Deino suffer from lack of competition.

Not balance.

[hollow canyon]

Pachy is a god atm, it's Kratos incarnate

if you see 2 Pachys and you're anything but Deino or Stego you have one option

[wintry halo]

Charging right as you hit top speed and being able too get in and out of it

[hollow canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/teletubbies-dipsy-running-away-scared-run-away-gif-25928776

[frail bobcat]

Didnt experience it

[alpine plover]

Again, there's such a lack of dinos, it's hard to compete and balance, imo.

[frail bobcat]

Its actually easier

[hollow canyon]

I didn't notice many people playing Pachies

but that doesn't change the fact that it's really overtuned right now

[alpine plover]

It's not if the dinos in the game are completely different weight classes in many cases.

[hollow canyon]

Pachy and Deino are probably the biggest winners of this update

Carno is a close second I think

[alpine plover]

You're trying to balance feather, middle, heavy, and super heavy weights with only 1 of each virtually.

[hollow canyon]

although tbh maybe it deserves a spot next to them

[alpine plover]

THAT doesn't work

[hollow canyon]

I need to play Carno a bit more to talk about it tbh

[hexed sorrel]

BRUH

I got killed by a ram

it charges up so quick bruh wtf

[bright briar]

hey, can you make a post about carnos not being broken right now in balance-feedback? Especially with its new charge. I want to see how many people will agree with you on that.

[alpine plover]

What is it on the new charge that is broken? I've been fighting Utahs and they still out turn it.

You guys are either just playing people coming back to the game for the update or new players

You're going to have different skill levels. Knowing when to run is one of them.

[thin mantle]

Teno dryo and Pachy are literally not fast enough to dodge it lol…it’s skill irrelevant rn

[alpine plover]

Why should you be fast enough to dodge it .... you cancel out the charge with your slam or your head ram ....

Dryo dodges .

You just want to be able to side step the attacks of the carno? That's bull, we had months and months of that ruining it. Now you actually have to use terrain or your own skill to fight back instead of just a given speed mechanic

[hollow canyon]

I'll be honest with you - it really doesn't matter, the vast majority of the posts in balance feedback make statements that are just... wrong, just dead wrong and spread misinformation yet people upvote them all the same.

[alpine plover]

You have to actually play the game or avoid the carno

[bright oasis]

Theres this cool idea I've got for balance. Maybe being able to turn your camera 360 degrees so you can see what's around you. That would mean players could see something coming at them and prepare for it earlier

[frail bobcat]

5 steps into the running animation (i tested it)

[alpine plover]

2 or 3 ADULT tentos will kill a carno in NO TIME. The carno runs out of stamina, it's screwed. It's the same with the UTAH it's the same with the Pachy ....

[hexed sorrel]

that is RIDICULOUS

[alpine plover]

I've lost countless Carnos due to running out of stam fighting multiple players, it just doesn't work. It's okay for your to have to use a HERD to survive ...

[frail bobcat]

It was like that since u5.5

[hexed sorrel]

get a pack then

[alpine plover]

Yes, get a pack.

Predators aren't normally pack animals. Prey are.

[hexed sorrel]

yes. you say herbies need a herd you need a pack

[obtuse ocean]

why balance around pack, ur not supose to win just cus ur more. Skill should matter

[hexed sorrel]

excuse me?

[bright oasis]

Oh no I have to group up with other players to survive easier? Worst game of all time

[frail bobcat]

The moose likes to have a talk with you

[hexed sorrel]

he was complaining about herbies need a herd and he lost stam fighting MULTIPLE herbivores and died. seems like a stupid decision to fight multiple dinos alone

[somber sphinx]

African wild dogs, wolves, lions guess we will ignore them

[alpine plover]

Exactly ... so you're upset you cannot solo a carno as a Tento now or a Utah?

Stop being a freaking baby and wait for a competing dino class.

Because a Tento can still kill a Carno

[obtuse ocean]

Depends, carno should fight multiple utahs. Yea sure if im 1 utah vs 3 utah, i run or die

[thin mantle]

Pachy is fine because Pachy solos Carno pretty easily….but implying that teno can reasonably catch a charging Carno with ram rn is hilarious…you need frame perfect timing as your damage hitbox only lasts that long…you need literally perfect connection to the server so that there is no delay whatsoever with what’s occurring server side with what’s happening for you…and because charge functions on the same hitbox logic as Pachy ram and Utah pounce where it’s a recurring hitbox spawn across the entirety of the animation uptime it’s priority over single frame attacks like bites or kick/slam is MASSIVE…so no you can’t be expected to reasonably hit a Carno as a teno with one of your stuns during a ram…I’ve killed several tenos on Carno since the update…none of them were remotely difficult for me I spammed charge and they couldn’t do anything…I have no idea how good or bad they were because their survival was irrelevant of their skill…they lacked a counter

[hexed sorrel]

also, HUMANS are playing this, not animals, you cannot expect them to act the same lmao, like when a wolf can only attack when the prey runs away, the prey doesnt know that but its pressured to run which if WE know what the animal is capable of, we can easily act accordingly

[bright briar]

thats your opinion and its fine

[hollow canyon]

it's not an opinion

thinking that this or that animal is too strong

is an opinion

[bright briar]

oh wow I see I see lol

[hexed sorrel]

thats a pretty even matchup

[frail bobcat]

Poutinne also said this

[hollow canyon]

saying "Omni got its turn rate nerfed too hard" is being wrong

[thin mantle]

Yeah Carno combat is so brainless rn

[hollow canyon]

or "Carno's blood pool was increased" - that's also just being wrong

[thin mantle]

I miss when you had to try

[alpine plover]

Omni still out turns the carno.

Raptors just actually have to use skill instead of bleeding you to death.

[bright oasis]

What's brainless is fighting carno as something you shouldnt solo

[hexed sorrel]

wdym bro you need to run for 0.01 ms and right click, thats a lot of skill

[alpine plover]

What's freaking crazy is you have all these Raptor bros that cannot solo Carnos any more and they're upset they'll need two instead of one.

[obtuse ocean]

As it should , you can be 10 utahs but if 3 allos show up that can go both ways. Ofcourse the utahs have the luxery to choose if they want to attack or leave. Allos dont have that luxery, so taking something bigger down should be though. And not pure numbers.

[hexed sorrel]

I never play raptor

[frail bobcat]

I dominated two omnis while being a 50% carno (its my third time playing carno)

[alpine plover]

Then they were bad. I've been fighting them all day. You mean 50% blood loss? Cause thats a lie

[thin mantle]

Teno isn’t supposed to solo Carno? The animal that’s been soloing Carno every update since it was added because it’s a mechanical counter to Carno? What are you talking about?

[alpine plover]

You wouldn't have the stam past your first charge. You'd have to be completely stupid.

[frail bobcat]

50 percent grown, killed a big sub and the adult ran

[alpine plover]

That's how I know you don't know what you're talking about.

[thin mantle]

I killed a pack of 7 as a 60% Carno….infinite stam and 64 kmh on top of a high bite damage go brrr…they literally couldn’t do anything but die

[bright oasis]

Time the mechanics better or herd up.

[alpine plover]

They obviously were a different skill level, it would have been easy to bleed you to death at 50% if you were pounced by an adult raptor.

[frail bobcat]

A yes, the fair sub carno

[hexed sorrel]

Cross, you die last update because you are stupid with your stamina, im sorry but you needed actual BRAINS with carno last time, you couldnt just spam ram, you had to time aim and predict with ram, right now you just right click and have a 70% success rate

[alpine plover]

It's crazy you have no concept of skill level and you only want mind numbing mechanics

[frail bobcat]

This

[frail bobcat]

Says the one that is defending the current ram

[alpine plover]

Bull .. it wansn't about brains. That's how I know you don't play either. The bleed rate and hunger rate of carnos last patch was a death sentence.

It wasn't even about fighting half the time, it was about food, and stamina running out in 5 seconds.

[frail bobcat]

Which is the definition of MONKE go click one button

[obtuse ocean]

I was a brainless utah last update, i sux at utah. Still i had no problem killing carnos.

[hexed sorrel]

its harder to completely miss a ram than it is to actually partially hit/ knock the prey down

[thin mantle]

You cannot time your stuns to intercept a charging Carno via timing…you’d have to get lucky server side because mechanically charge all but overrides your attack with its own…and no teno is both lighter and slower than Carno and it’s kit is designed for defense…it should be able to fight a Carno….where have you been for the past 3 years if this being the case?

[frail bobcat]

Omni balance was horrible last update

[alpine plover]

Dude .. you're a pack animal!

Raptors are pack animals! Stop getting mad you cannot solo everything.

[hexed sorrel]

is criticizing a carno automatically consider you as a utah main?

[thin mantle]

Nobody wants Omni to go back to how it was….Omni was very broken

[alpine plover]

If you want to compete with the Carno, you'll need a heavier weight class dino in solo mode.

[frail bobcat]

I am actually a omni main lol, but I was calling for nerfs last update lol

[thin mantle]

No just play Pachy, you can’t lose

[hollow canyon]

I'd say that you guys should chill - Carno won't be staying the way it is rn

[alpine plover]

Stop comparing the Raptor to a Carno. They're not apples and apples unless you got numbers. Two completely different weight classes! Oh my god.

[frail bobcat]

Yes

[hollow canyon]

it's bound to get hit with the nerfhammer just like Utah was on this update

[obtuse ocean]

No, but to even have a chance taking down 1 carno you should need a good pack. Not the other way around.

[hexed sorrel]

a teno, face to face one on one, both knowing each others presence, a teno SHOULD win 60-40

[hollow canyon]

The devs just seemingly didn't have the time to get it where it should be by the time the end of the year was coming

[frail bobcat]

3 good utahs vs 1 carno should be a fair fight

[thin mantle]

I wouldn’t say you should need any more than 4 of equivalent skill level

[hollow canyon]

you will never get it to work like that, Teno is too skill-dependent

[hexed sorrel]

yeah, but honestly teno vs carno last update was the best

[hollow canyon]

there's too big of a difference between a good Teno and a bad Teno, skill matters more on that animal than on all the others combined

[obtuse ocean]

yea, sure aslong as the carno have a chance if they do mistakes. I dont want to see utahs jumping around me missing pounces and still get away.

[thin mantle]

Teno actually requires conscious thought to be good with…

[frail bobcat]

A 50/50 fight

[hexed sorrel]

its better to NOT bite than to actually bite, its riskier to bite than to just ram. and thats a problem

[hollow canyon]

no, it wasn't, it was a slaughter, I've played mainly Teno since U4(minus 5.5 when I spammed only Deino) and it slaughtered Carnos, having said that - I have a feeling I won't like how this match up works now

[thin mantle]

Charge is literally riskless you can’t fail with it against a teno

[hexed sorrel]

yes

[alpine plover]

Again, you're full of crap dude. Stop lying about mechanics. Utahs get in really close becxause they're trying to pounce, you cannot charge them that close. You have to bite.

[frail bobcat]

If no sides mess up its completely fair, that would be my dream vision.

[alpine plover]

You're totally lying or know NOTHING about the mechanics unstoppable.

[thin mantle]

Run in the other direction and turn around….you can absolutely charge Utahs mid fight

[hexed sorrel]

same. but when I actually played against skilled players, it was rather close, but it was A LOT better than this update

[alpine plover]

utahs are still dodging charges .. i've been fighting them all day. You just cannot paly.

Fluff you're absolutely right! If you're soloing. Get 2 or 3 and you're in trouble with stam my friend.

[hollow canyon]

idk how it is on this update, I liked this match up the most on U3.5 but... those days have long passed(and are never coming back)

[alpine plover]

It's a pack animal not a solo animal. AGAIN TWO DIFFERENT WEIGHT CLASSES.

[hexed sorrel]

just run away, charge you get at least 25% gone from a tail hit

[thin mantle]

Well I was fighting 7 at once

[hexed sorrel]

also, i was referring to the teno matchup

[alpine plover]

Unstoppable, yes and if you have 2 or 3 trying to poucne?

[frail bobcat]

I used to be able to dodge carnos for MINUTES and now I cant survive one for 30 seconds. That is a issue when omnis only defence is agility (which got nerfed)

[alpine plover]

It doesn't matter on that 25% hit.

[frail bobcat]

He was a sub, bro just outran them

[alpine plover]

Dino, there's the truth. You want to be able to dodge Carnos for minutes on end dont ya? Want that easy mode. Now you have to actually run or fight. lol

[hexed sorrel]

run? buck? slam em on a tree>

[alpine plover]

You guys are a joke.

[stark knoll]

Be respectful to others or end the conversation, please

[alpine plover]

Literally, no wonder you guys are getting decimated as raptors ....

[hollow topaz]

Aren’t omnis slower now, so you can’t REALLY run? Or am I wrong?

[thin mantle]

You can’t run or fight a Carno rn tho…that’s the issue

[alpine plover]

You don't know how to play just decently ....

[frail bobcat]

I want to be able to rely on my skill to dodge stuff (because this is what omni is all about)

[hollow canyon]

they didn't change their speed

[alpine plover]

You guys are exaplaining you're playing style and it's not good.

[hexed sorrel]

dont play raptor, i played carno, and decimated 3 separate tenos with getting hit once total

[hollow topaz]

Yeah but the reason they used to be able to “run away”was their agility

[bright oasis]

I wonder if theres woods you can out maneuver them in 🤔

[frail bobcat]

Z running used to save you until you were in the woods

[alpine plover]

Unstoppable then they didn't know how to play Tento. Tento can RUN down Carnos, they have more stamina. They can stop carno charge with a tail slam.

[thin mantle]

I’ve been playing mostly Carno since the update dropped…im mostly going off how comically easy it’s been to make kills…I did some testing in scope to get a better perspective on the balance of a few critters and I had my perspective reaffirmed…

[hollow topaz]

I don’t play Omni, I’m just wondering if that’s the case here

[alpine plover]

So you're lying or just played some really bad people

[hexed sorrel]

they can run them down, and what? bite them to death?

[alpine plover]

Tentos are very equipped to handle a carno. More so 2 v 1.

Yes .... that tail hit will screw you up

[hollow canyon]

their agility is the same, the only changed Utah received was that it recovers from a missed pounce a big longer and that it deals less damage with the pounce, there were no changes to its agility

[alpine plover]

The problem with fighting Tentos is stamina management. Carnos run out of stamina fast .. tentos will take advantage of that.

[hexed sorrel]

this WAS decently hard to do last update, now? near impossible

[hollow canyon]

it's not, people are just spreading misinformation

[alpine plover]

The issue is .. you're not playing people that know that or you attacked juveniles.

[thin mantle]

One of the tenos I killed was trying to do just that…it actually made it harder for him since he couldn’t see me coming as easily and the foliage/trees weren’t really a challenge since my charge was agile enough to go around them

[alpine plover]

3 Adult Tentos could EASILY kill a carno

[hexed sorrel]

you probably start ur charge 10 seconds before dont you

[hollow topaz]

Everyone was complaining about the agility so I was just confused, thanks though!

[hexed sorrel]

they were separate

[alpine plover]

No, I ambush Tentos. I don't hit them straight on.

And I usually kill the babies and run from the adult.s

[hexed sorrel]

I didnt, and easily won

[alpine plover]

Because you didn't fight adults.

[hollow canyon]

yea, they are complaining about a tonne of things that just aren't true, it's pretty much a constant thing in Isle's feedback after every update

[hexed sorrel]

I did

[frail bobcat]

No, nappn said that it was nerfed (the dude on youtube that dodges the crap out of people with omni), imma trust that source

[alpine plover]

Tentos can easily kill you with the tail slams and running you down.

No, you're lying or they were AFK.

[hexed sorrel]

nope.

[frail bobcat]

Why do say that they are lying? Because it could disprove your point?

[alpine plover]

Yes, from you explaining your Raptor play style, what little you said, it sounded like you didn't know what you were doing. So you're lying most likely.

[thin mantle]

You can’t be run down by a teno unless you’re managing your stam poorly…and if it’s in you down to a point where you can run anymore…then it’s also nearly out of stam so it’s a borderline free kill

[hexed sorrel]

dude. ive played teno a LOT, yes they can run down carnos, BUT they still need stamina to you know... ATTACK?

[hollow canyon]

you are free to trust him but you will be wrong on that, I saw his feedback and he's just wrong

[alpine plover]

If you're charging more than one Tento, you cannot keep your stam up enough to run from 3 of them.

I know you cant because I've tried.

[hexed sorrel]

brother. they were SEPARATE

[frail bobcat]

The turn is worse, I noticed it too

[hexed sorrel]

so 1v1 3 times

[alpine plover]

Oh, I see. Then that'

[hollow canyon]

it's not, I've just finished playing Omni and it feels exactly the same to me as it did on last update

[alpine plover]

That's definitely possible. The way I kill a Carno in a 1v1. use Terrain. I go inside a bush where it cannot see my exactly and I usually win it.

[thin mantle]

I haven’t played Omni but I have noticed some mobility discrepancies with the last update, for example dryo turns way worse than it used to

[frail bobcat]

Maybe I am just influenced by people telling that it is like that, but if somebody says it who play it for hours a day, imma trust them eith that

[hexed sorrel]

carno shouldve got a bleed buff but NOT a ram buff, I had 0 issues with the ram before

[alpine plover]

I men Tento and Carno are not the same ... you obviously did not fight a Tento that understood how to take advantage of your charge.

[frail bobcat]

It was a global nerf

[bright oasis]

Nappn kinda lame. All he was doing was punching up with the broken bleed system and the bad bucking. Now that it's not literally right click to win hes mad. Do not listen to him.

Utah is slowly going to the niche it's supposed to, small game hunter. Theres no need for it to take out an animal over 2x heavier in 2 pounces. He abused broke systems so I dont care about his opinion.

[hexed sorrel]

I did, but everytime they tried to doge, I simply turned the same way they ran and the tail was too far away from my body

[hollow canyon]

Idk if they didn't mess with inertia and forgot about it because Deino seemed to turn worse at full speed seemingly but Omni is the one animal that feels exactly the same to me

[alpine plover]

The Carno is in a good position and it needs to be left alone until more dinos get added that fit in its weight class.

[frail bobcat]

When did you hear about omni being a small game hunter?

[alpine plover]

Unstoppable, that's why you go in a tree. It's a gamble for you and him. You are NOT the tento's prey, but the Tento is your prey ..

If it's 1v1 you may end up killing it as you're suppose to be able to.

[frail bobcat]

And even tho I dislike some of his stuff too, he didnt even use pounce most of the time, bro bit most of the time and just dodged the crap out of people

[alpine plover]

This is not a boxing match .. lol

[frail bobcat]

I know

[hexed sorrel]

bro. a teno should NOT have to use the terrain against a carno, it is supposed to win the matchup if its a failed ambush.

[wintry halo]

Big facts you almost never fight carnos in a forest your reaction time too them just slowsdown and its hard too sneak away only with a body of water around i could see it maybe being smart and thats a big if.

[alpine plover]

It's like you guys want a Tic Tac Toe game and it's not that. The Carno will decimate some dinos.

And some dinos will decimate the carno.

[thin mantle]

The animals I’ve played so far are teno, Carno, stego, and dryo, Carno’s makes sense to me but the rest also feel significantly worse…like dryo doesn’t even really HAVE agility during a sprint anymore it’s very easily telegraphed…which is ig salt on the wound of all the other things changed with dryo to make it go from entirely irrelevant to just suicidal to play

[alpine plover]

Stop over balancing the carno.

[frail bobcat]

They should start nerfing it a bit

[hexed sorrel]

its an ambush predaotr, THE WHOLE point for the ram, was to sneak up, get some massive damage in to make it easier to kill

[bright oasis]

It's small? A large group of 3+ should be needed for one carno. More than that for the stego their fighting in gigas concept. Plus the bucking buff for larger animals to get smaller animals off them.

Not every dino needs to be fighting adult it comes across. Go embrace the small game niche and hunt juvies to subs. Do a bit of population control.

[wintry halo]

Big facts its around the same weight class and be able too hold its own

[thin mantle]

Mhm..didn’t work for any of the tenos that tried to use it against me…

[alpine plover]

Right ... and in real life. when it charged you and knocked you over and went for your throat, you could probably do that.

But we don't get exact replications of that.

[frail bobcat]

You meant that, I thought it being small game hunter in packs nvm

[hexed sorrel]

sorry but I dont understand

[wintry halo]

Oh yeah indeed

[alpine plover]

If the carno is meant to be an ambush predator, they have slow food drain. Usually eating every few days if that.

The carno has a very rapid food drain meaning the devs wanted a glass cannon that could get its meals.

[wintry halo]

You think irl a carno would charge fast first intoo a creature around its same weight?

Face first*

[alpine plover]

I mean was that creature even able to do much other than kick? Lions do it all the time and on creatures that are twice their weight

[bright oasis]

Who cares? It's a game not irl animal sim

[hexed sorrel]

its not related to the matchup, yes I agree its food drain is too much

[frail bobcat]

Neck fracture go brrr

[alpine plover]

I mean you have Lion charges water buffalos for crying outloud

[thin mantle]

Make Carno imbalanced because it’s hungry…

[alpine plover]

Why wouldn't a carno do it.

[hollow canyon]

I will be honest - I only played Carno in the very beginning of U5 when I decided it's a dumpsterfire so I'm not entirely sure if it turns better or worse, I played Utah for some time afterwards and it felt exactly the same as it does now but from U5.5 onwards I played only Deino and well... Deino's definitely much better now so I kind of like this update(since it's Deino is a big winner of this update - its lunge got the charge treatment but sprinkled with an enormous damage buff).

[alpine plover]

Yes, if you wouldn't the Carno to be more of an abmush predator, you have to reduce that food drain by a lot

Where it could actually have time to ambush

[wintry halo]

Yeah i dont mind it ingame but he brings irl intoo the mix the carno would damage itself more falling after then the creature it rams intoo

[alpine plover]

instead it has massive high energy food drain

[hexed sorrel]

you see a video and think it happens often? it is EXTREMELY rare. its like a solo utah taking down 2 stegos rare lol

[alpine plover]

If that devs wanted the Carno to be a sneak and attack dino, it wouldn't have the massive food drain that it does

[wintry halo]

Face first intoo them horrns right

[alpine plover]

They tried that back in the day

[wintry halo]

Be real

[alpine plover]

Remember? People complained then to

People didn't want a super fast dino, that could only run in straight lines really fast and ambush you. That was OP too

So w're going full circle again

[hexed sorrel]

people complain, but the devs fix the wrong stuff and or they overtune it

[alpine plover]

The first carno was ONLY AMBUSH style

I guess you weren't here in the beginning

[wintry halo]

Its a hybrid a ambush sprinter sneak up on your prey and do as much damage as you want and for creatures that are small enough it can win against just overpower them with speed.

[alpine plover]

Because that has already been done and tried

[hexed sorrel]

I was

[alpine plover]

People complained about it being OP

So now you have to fight it, but it still has to be a threat

So here you go. You have a threat from a 5000 pound missle.

[hexed sorrel]

the ram had a cooldown, you needed to wait far longer to charge up than last update, and it turned a lot slower. I wonder why

[hollow canyon]

???

[thin mantle]

Carno is absolutely slower on the turn…like it’s quite bizarre it doesn’t feel like inertia as much as it is that you reach an turn angle and despite not skidding you almost stop moving instead of slowing down how it used to….dryo is the same way at an angle (far earlier than an angle necessary to drift, your speed just stops, you can’t make those tight sprinting turns anymore there’s a very obviously telegraphed half circle…which for omnis has made it incredibly easy to catch them, did some testing for that as well…dryo can’t escape from anything that hunts it anymore…but yeah Carno is absolutely a worse turner than it used to be and it’s the easiest to recognize with.

[alpine plover]

CARNO is still slower to turn!!

[bright oasis]

Wheres pounces cooldown

[alpine plover]

What are you talking about man

[hexed sorrel]

?

[wintry halo]

I would say the first carno was more of a stam monster then it now was if i remember right

And that says something

[alpine plover]

It was but much faster and more damage and slower food drain

[hexed sorrel]

every dino had insane stamina

[hollow canyon]

First Carno was not an ambusher, its charge was irrelevant, it didn't even knockdown Tenonto at the time and honestly it wasn't even worth using, it was all about style and mauling your opponent

I loved it but it was overtuned tbh

[hexed sorrel]

but every dino was also scaled like that

[alpine plover]

But people thought that was OP. The Carno is a threat to mid tier dinos and people don't like it because there's no mid tier predators hunting the carno.

There's no weight class balance.

[hexed sorrel]

like utah was 1000kg if I remember

[alpine plover]

And everyone wants to nerf the carno. The problem is the LACK of dinos in each weight classs

Keeping checks and balances

[thin mantle]

There aren’t any mid tier Dino’s….at all

[wintry halo]

Yeah putting in pressure and male the teno miss while you hit and run

[hollow canyon]

yea it was

[hexed sorrel]

last update majority wanted to buff carno including me

[wintry halo]

Carno is no mid tier threat😂😂😂

[hollow canyon]

yea exactly I loved how Teno vs Carno played at the time and I played them both

[alpine plover]

Carno feels good to play. Utahs are still a threat. Tentos are still a threat. Pachy's are still a threat. You just will have trouble solo as it should be.

[thin mantle]

I just wanted the bleed drain multis to go back to pre U5 levels and for Omni to receive some nerfs to indirectly buff Carno…

[hollow canyon]

Carno is the laughing stock of the mid tiers, other mid tiers just eat it alive

[alpine plover]

It's that simple. Stop looking to solo a predator heavier than you

[hexed sorrel]

I wonder why I see 90-10 carno-utah population

[alpine plover]

Because it was so bad for the last year, people are ready to have some fun with it

[wintry halo]

Its borderline a big small tier with the only thing it has was speed and its average bleed

[thin mantle]

Again, if you struggle with any of those but Pachy you’re a terrible Carno

[alpine plover]

I mean .. what did you expect????

[hexed sorrel]

please.

[wintry halo]

I would say the carno in update 5 was damn good teno vs carno match up was 50/50

[alpine plover]

You had balance blowing up for several months about the carno, and it's finally balanced. It's not OP. 2 or 3 Utahs can kill a carno. 2 or 3 Tentos can kill a carno.

Stop looking to solo everything

[hollow canyon]

Carno was trash in U5, it was Teno-food

[wintry halo]

And the carno population bigger then the tenos anyways

[thin mantle]

I don’t think it was 50/50 but I definitely didn’t struggle with tenos much

[hexed sorrel]

2 or 3 tenos? BRO

[wintry halo]

Played right? Most tenos dont know what too do against a proper carno player

[hexed sorrel]

1 teno> 1 carno open field thats how it SUPPOSED to be, or else teno would become a bad animal

[alpine plover]

Unstoppable, you had explained your tactics as a raptor and it sucked. So I don't expect your Tento game to be any better man.

[hollow canyon]

Most Tenos don't know what to do against a plastic bag flying in their general direction, they don't matter

[hexed sorrel]

what tactic?

[alpine plover]

Wtf? It's not rock paper scissors!! Tentos are prey!! Wtf

Tentos are the Carnos kill weight. You may be in trouble facing off instead of running

[hexed sorrel]

prey cant defent themselves>

[alpine plover]

The Tento absolutely can screw you up with the tail slam. Standing in the open field is stupid.

[wintry halo]

Yeah teno made too counter a carno not getting fast enough out of the way its a counter creature

[hexed sorrel]

this update they CANT lol

[alpine plover]

I mean wtf are you wanting? An i win button!? ;

[thin mantle]

We did some testing with teno Carno combat testing during U5 and the winrate for either dino was relatively the same regardless of whether we swapped Dino’s…I don’t think it was that one sided

[hexed sorrel]

I want it to be balanced

[alpine plover]

No!! Your idea of balanced is to win. Not to use tactics or strategy.

[wintry halo]

Its far too rwarding too just spam charge you cant get out of the way of a carno its hits your tail or body anyways and they can keep cycle charging it

[alpine plover]

You want a built in I win mechanic instead of using your head.

You cannot spam charge ... you're out of stamina ... yo uwill die

[thin mantle]

Can’t you say the same about Carno rn….

[bright oasis]

That was previous utah pounce so yes pls I dont want strategize or be better I want to hit 2 right clicks and auto win again 🤡🤡🤡

[hexed sorrel]

you can

[alpine plover]

That's how I know you guys dont play Carno. Spamming charge is a death sentence

[thin mantle]

You demonstrably can

[alpine plover]

If you 1v1 a carno, I think that's stupid with the current dinos in the game.

[hexed sorrel]

so the strategy and skill of carno according to you is stamina management?

[alpine plover]

You should not be 1v1ing a carno like its call of duty

[hexed sorrel]

I thought that was a no brainer

[thin mantle]

I’ve literally grown 2 carnos since U6 dropped and my kill counts on both are immense….I’ve played Carno

[hollow canyon]

Unless Carno got buffed from U4 - it should've been Teno sided if Teno was good, Para and Dashark who are probably the best Teno and Carno on this discord went from 50/50 on 3.5 to Dashark not getting a single win against Para on U4 and I don't think that Teno got any nerfs in U5

[alpine plover]

But you can definitely fight back and win against a not so good palyer

Fluff .. you're a carno ... what are you a prey of dude ....

It's like you're not using your head. What's hunting you?

You want a tento to hunt you?

[hollow canyon]

having said that - I think that while Carno might need a nerf I'm thinking about what should be done about it

[hexed sorrel]

for carno to win this update is ram, wait, ram, wait, repeat.

[thin mantle]

Nothing can kill me….so…nothing

[hollow canyon]

I think its charge hitbox might need some reduction but alternatively how about decreasing its damage and the CC it applies?

[alpine plover]

The Balance issue is the LACK of playable dinos since WEIGHT matters.

It's not that the Carno can slightly turn faster

[hollow canyon]

I personally think that it knocking down Teno is kind of stupid anyways

[wintry halo]

Oh yes you can sinds you can get intoo charge so fast then cancle it and just run normally past a teno

[alpine plover]

it's the fact you don't have anything that can effectively kill carnos that make mistakes. A Tento is not an effective carno killer.

[hollow canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/excited-crocodile-peter-pan-hungry-starving-gif-5078636

[alpine plover]

You need DINOS that keeps checks and balances in place.

[hollow canyon]

Deinos politely disagree

[thin mantle]

It was still teno sided…but it honestly kinda should be teno sided…carnos whole movement kit is very poor against a defensively oriented animal that can afford to stay in relatively the same spot…I don’t take much issue with it, especially since when you went teno and I went Carno we went….I think 6 or 7 rounds and I won 5 of them…

[bright oasis]

I hope when rex drops omni can still 1v1 it like legacy. A good utah player should beat rex everytime 🤓

[hollow canyon]

it was way too Teno-sided

[thin mantle]

Oh sorry…I always forget deino exists since it basically defies any laws of balance the game may attempt to set

[hollow canyon]

But either way that doesn't matter

[alpine plover]

Stop complaining that a predator that is outside of your weight class can over power you. It's just crazy. You guys aren't taking into account the weight classes.

You're looking for call of duty 1v1 here

[thin mantle]

Not for me it wasn’t…like I’d get bored of Carno quickly if it was any more favorable to me

[wintry halo]

It is the best matchup of all small tiers in a 1v1

[hollow canyon]

U4/5 aren't coming back, I think it's more productive to think about what should be done about these animals now

[hexed sorrel]

its the same weightclass

[hollow canyon]

I personally think that instead of making the charge harder to hit

it should just be weaker, like much weaker

[alpine plover]

Tento is the PREY of the Carno not the opposite way

[hollow canyon]

Teno shouldn't get knocked down by it

[thin mantle]

It shouldn’t CC

[alpine plover]

If you learn how to play Tento .. you can fight back

[zenith pumice]

aya

[hollow canyon]

I wouldn't necessarily disagree although I think it makes sense if something really small gets tossed into the air by it

[thin mantle]

You have such a bizarre perspective of what the word “viability” means…

[zenith pumice]

teno should get buffed

44 speed

[wintry halo]

Facts i make teno work

[zenith pumice]

rex

[wintry halo]

Still can 2 v1 them just a little harder

[thin mantle]

Oh yeah I’m fine with that, but I’m not sure where that line is…half it’s weight?

[alpine plover]

Fluff, i don't you're just trying to make it where the the Carno is a Prey instead of a predator like it has been for months

[hollow canyon]

I think that would be ok

[alpine plover]

The carno is in a good spot, espcially for when you get heavier weight carnis in the game

[hollow canyon]

Dilo could get some flying lessons from Carno if it gets hit by it

decrease the damage down to 200 or maybe even 150

[thin mantle]

Carno hasn’t been prey even when it was weak…it’s still incredibly fast and can manage its stam to escape practically anything besides omnis…

[hollow canyon]

and we're good, it would no longer be used as a nuke

[hexed sorrel]

teno was made as a herbivore counterpart to carno, something to challenge carno this belief that prey should always die to the carno is ridiculous, prey can defend or have the offense the same if not more than predators at times. teno cannot run away from carno, so it should do a good job in defending itself

[alpine plover]

FLuff, that's how I know you are full of crap.

[hollow canyon]

maybe increase the stam cost

[alpine plover]

Before the buffs, pachies could charge down a carno because of lack of stam if you used the charge, so could Tentos.

[thin mantle]

Make its utility favor smaller animals whilst still having a purpose against teno…just one that it can counter…

[thin mantle]

I’m good at Carno therefor I’m wrong?

[alpine plover]

Raptors could also run down the Carno. The carno had more speed but the Raptor was often able to run it down due to the its consistent speed.

Fluff, you just don't play it and you're full of crap.

[hexed sorrel]

again, tenos could outrun carnos yes, but it would need at least 40% stamina to effectively kill the carno

[alpine plover]

You would know its short comings on stamina before the patch and why herbis were able to kill it effectively if they knew its playstyle.

[thin mantle]

I wasn’t aware you were in my walls watching me play the game

[alpine plover]

It was Actually better to BITE instead of use charge for stamina reasons if it was decent player

[hollow canyon]

yea, it can stagger a teno and get some bites in but it doesnt knock it down and nuke it for a quarter of its health any longer

[hexed sorrel]

cross, last update either you werent smart with stamina, or the teno just cut your distance

[alpine plover]

Also, if you were half stamina, it was more wise to leave the fight than continue it.

Now, I just ambushed tentos and staved to death when i couldn't

You just don't play carno and don't know what you're talking about

[hexed sorrel]

charge again is for ambush, shouldnt use it if they know its coming

[alpine plover]

You're just a liar that obviously didn't play it

And you want to try to give credence to what you're saying and it doesn't make sense.

[hexed sorrel]

but it worked if you were smart with it, which i liked. this turn radius is just STUPID

[thin mantle]

I wouldn’t even have it stagger…unless it’s a unique kind of stagger that allows the attack instigated pre stagger that’s still playing to continue playing out so a counter slam or kick can actually be landed….because with current charge that HAS to be a reasonable expectation for tenos to land…the issue that charge has now is that it absolutely isn’t and especially not in conjunction with charges knockdown

[hollow canyon]

If we were to decrease Carno's charge damage down to 200 this would mean that a Utah needs to still get bitten twice or once with a headshot to be finished off

[hexed sorrel]

no worries, next time I will record every time I fight a carno just for you

[hollow canyon]

hmmm I think without the stagger it would be completely useless since Teno would just stagger you and then maul you

it used to have a stagger on U2

[thin mantle]

Just activate your charge the second before you hit the target and you won’t waste your stam….

[hollow canyon]

it got buffed to a knockdown in U3

[hexed sorrel]

I JUST played carno lol. guess how I died. fall damage lol. only thing that can kill carno lmao

[thin mantle]

True…tho I don’t know how else to balance it to make it function with how easy it is to land

[frail bobcat]

And another carno

[hexed sorrel]

THIS

[hexed sorrel]

true, but at this point there are so much carnos they mightve even formed a whole civilization lol

[frail bobcat]

Carnomania

[hollow canyon]

I think that would be alright, Carno's charge would make it so that it stagger the Teno but then it has to turn around and start biting by which point it might be able to land at best one bite before Teno recovers from the stagger and starts going medieval on Carno's butt

I mean it would need some testing but that's how I see this playing out

[hexed sorrel]

carno charge does enough damage where you dont need to double up after charging

[thin mantle]

But you could just continually charge back and fourth like you can now just without follow ups…I really don’t like that style of combat it’s so lame for both parties

[hollow canyon]

no, no, no, we're talking about a scenario of how I'd have it - here the damage of the charged gets nerfed hard

I'm thinking down to 150, 200 at most

[hexed sorrel]

ah ok

[hollow canyon]

that's like half of the damage it deals now

I think atm it's 300 so

brb need food in game

[thin mantle]

I still think the combat style of both Carno and teno took a massive downgrade with charge becoming an effective attack

[wintry halo]

Exactly teno was made too show how a innocent small looking herbivore can fight back and is damn good at it.

[hexed sorrel]

yeah you can pretty much 100% land a ram now against a teno, it may be a tail shot but it is still chip damage and you recover stamina before it heals

[thin mantle]

Because the interaction is so simple that it either works…or it doesn’t…it can’t be anywhere in between otherwise one side is heavily favored and the engagement doesn’t make any sense

[wintry halo]

Yeah good carnos against good tenos is something amazing too look at

[thin mantle]

Not anymore unfortunately

[wintry halo]

When it worked

[wintry halo]

We still slap them💪🏾

[frail bobcat]

I would love for Cross to make a balance feedback that carno is fine rn

Bro would get bombarded with ❌

[thin mantle]

Like I as a player who plays majority Carno am VERY sick of charge being this good…Carno is so boring to play

[frail bobcat]

You feel scummy using it

[thin mantle]

Tbf islecord isn’t a great barometer to measure the accuracy and validity of arguments…putting stock into those ratings is almost intrinsically flawed

[hexed sorrel]

cross is loving it I think we can assume why

[thin mantle]

You do but it’s mostly just that there’s…no tactics…

[frail bobcat]

But you can get a rough look on it

[frail bobcat]

Bias-glasses? 👀

[thin mantle]

You can get an idea of community response but I don’t see that as a good method of appraising points

[frail bobcat]

This

Stresstesters should be the ones voicing concerns about balance

[thin mantle]

I wouldn’t even go that far…the only thing that qualifies them is the application they sent in…which doesn’t really prove how equipped they are

[scarlet haven]

stresstesters are also members of the community, bro

[thin mantle]

Anyone CAN and SHOULD be listened….anyone can make good points

[frail bobcat]

Mostly experienced and skilled players

[thin mantle]

Hehe….you’d be surprised

[scarlet haven]

not really, no. like fluff said the only qualifier is sending in the application

speaking from the perspective of how statistics are gathered, its better to cast a wider net and have as many voices as possible. helps to even out how much intentionally bogus reports sway results as well as getting a more accurate spread of data.

[hollow canyon]

Alright - some questionable decisions have been made but I'm alive

alright so for starters - what Carno needs right now is a fix to its charge hitbox

secondly - it should have a start-up stamina cost on its charge

I honestly don't know why it doesn't have that

[frail bobcat]

Yes, but its too late when it lands in the feedback channels, stresstester concern should be taken more seriously because there is NO way that they said that carno was fine

[hollow canyon]

when you use the pounce you not only use stamina while latched on

but you also have a starting cost for just launching the pounce - Carno needs the same thing

[frail bobcat]

Actually smart

[hollow canyon]

to get around this thing where you get to just tap the RMB right before you reach the target

if this doesn't sort problems with it out - give it also a cooldown but I think that should be enough

[scarlet haven]

speaking of stamina expense for pouncing... 😒

[thin mantle]

Not sure how current Carno made it into the update if they did

[hollow canyon]

secondly - decrease that disgusting charge damage down from 300, that's way too high

down to 200 or 150

if you ask me

[frail bobcat]

Maybe they just wanted to put out the update

[hollow canyon]

I would personally also remove the knockdown on Teno and make it knockdown only things like half of its weight and smaller while also

[thin mantle]

The updates been in stress test for AWHILE

[hollow canyon]

GODDAMN IT, DID I JUST PUKE?!

[frail bobcat]

True

HOW DID THIS PASS BY THE ST THEN?

[thin mantle]

That’s the main fix as far as I’m concerned…regardless of damage it needs to be counterable

[hollow canyon]

it wasn't actually, this was one of the shorter Stress tests

[hollow canyon]

short ST actually, they didn't have enough time to fix everything

[thin mantle]

Comparatively yes but a month is still awhile

[hollow canyon]

it wasn't a month

it was like 3 weeks

iirc

[thin mantle]

Oh ok…a week short of a month then

Still more than enough time to make dryo viable

[frail bobcat]

But this has to get noticed

[hollow canyon]

yea still they were probably focused more on mechanics, they need some more time

They were aware that Carno was a bit busted but they'd need more time to fix it because if it gets a fix

brb Pumgas after me

[thin mantle]

They shouldn’t adjust balance if that’s their goal, being unwilling to adjust changes made to balance because it’s not a focus is…insane

[scarlet haven]

if they were focused on mechanics they shouldve just stuck to that- mechanics.

😭

because the new balance is horrendous

[hollow canyon]

It was horrendous in U5 too

[scarlet haven]

i didnt play until 5.5 or so, so ill take your word for it

[thin mantle]

Oh yes don’t remind me

[hollow canyon]

5.5 was the same, Utah was a god just like Carno now

these two have been changing the crown between each other from like U4, they were only both good back in 3.5

[scarlet haven]

ive seen plenty of utahs get rocked by carnos and tenos

5.5 was the closest we got to balance- and imo part of the fun of playing such a small and fragile dino is being able to bring down huge prey IF youre good enough

[hollow canyon]

Utah always gets rocked if it plays like a cretin

[wintry halo]

Indeed i can see how landing a charge wouldnt feel rewarding it would be like teno tail being a heat seeking missle always landing with auto aim.

[hollow canyon]

yea no, 5.5 was a joke of an update balance-wise

[frail bobcat]

No skill was involved fighting carnos lol. You know how to dodge them and you are fine

[scarlet haven]

agree to disagree, aken, my experience w/ it has been different

[frail bobcat]

It was easy to take down carnos

[scarlet haven]

with utah as it is now there is no room for that skill anymore, you dont outrun or outstam carno, you dont outmaneuver it anymore, and you cant pounce without getting immediately thrown off because your stamina drains in the span of a second.

[wintry halo]

Being able too read somebody is a skill

[dawn falcon]

Until they demolish you lol

[frail bobcat]

You know what I mean

Not as difficult as it was supposed too

[scarlet haven]

yall kinda sound like the super pressed legacy apex mains getting mad that they got outplayed by skilled low tiers

[wintry halo]

Same goes for a carno if there good at reading utahs there a monster too take down.

[dawn falcon]

Is it really skilled if I am able to read someone but the other guy I can’t?

[scarlet haven]

like its one, maybe two bites to end the dino ur fighting. if you dont land those that isnt their fault lol

[hollow canyon]

there were no changes to the runtime of either of those animals, Utah's still at 105 seconds of runtime and Carno's still at 60 seconds

[wintry halo]

Read them and adjust properly or atleast trying too is certainly a big skill.

[scarlet haven]

still worthless since utah can no longer dodge around carnos until the carno's stam runs out.

theyre sitting ducks now

[frail bobcat]

Totally, omni got invalidated in this update

[hollow canyon]

there were no changes to Utah's agility either

[scarlet haven]

no, but there was a change to carnos.

carnos can now whip around much faster than they could before and they can curve on their charges.

[hollow canyon]

Yea the charge has some weird hitbox issues but that's more of a bug than anything else

[frail bobcat]

There were global agility changes

[dawn falcon]

The only significant change was carnos charge turn but without that, carno can’t even fight a Utah

[hollow canyon]

it will get fixed

[frail bobcat]

Dryo got affected too

[dawn falcon]

Utah can just run for half a second and outturn Carno LOL

[hollow canyon]

I'm not really buying that and the QA disagree with that

[dawn falcon]

^

[scarlet haven]

carno shouldnt be charging vs utahs anyways??? the strategy is to plant your cute pug-nosed booty in a spot, use the environment, spare your stam, and get alt bites where it counts

[hollow canyon]

Utah feels the same as it did when I last played it

[scarlet haven]

are yall using charges in 5.5 on utahs and trying to comment on comp viability 😭

[frail bobcat]

I see two sides, people are saying otherwise (nappn said that it was different) and qa said this

[dawn falcon]

Reread it again, please. I never said it should or shouldn’t be, just that carnos literally unviable without the charge, which is still problematic

[hollow canyon]

no, charge was utter trash in 5.5, I wouldn't use it unless I was up against someone that was snoozing in front of their computer

[frail bobcat]

But you dont need qa to do a change like this

[dawn falcon]

^

Islecord try not to think Carno is fit as an ambusher challenge (impossible)

[scarlet haven]

saying that without the charge turn it's unviable vs utah implies it should be using charge vs utah, my guy

[frail bobcat]

The turn change needed to happen, but not to this extent

[dawn falcon]

If that’s how you want to interpret it. Then sure.
Regardless, my point still stands.

This update is still a mess of balance

[scarlet haven]

that...is how language works but yeah i agree, its a massive letdown

teasing us with cerato in the patch notes too :/ guh

[dawn falcon]

This update is still a huge W for growth but ugh.
Body fractures as an example are now 3x multiplier for Stam consumption so uh

The apex herbis are now goddamn Pachys

[scarlet haven]

im ok with pachy supremacy 🛐 /j

[dawn falcon]

One body fracture forces Carno to run for only a 1/3rd of its stamina

[scarlet haven]

it makes sense from a biology perspective but for game balance...not so much

[frail bobcat]

Body fracture change was not needed

[dawn falcon]

Body fracture change is needed but not to this extent

[frail bobcat]

The 2x was fine

[dawn falcon]

I’d just bump it to 2.2 or 2.5x at most, not goddamn 3x

[hollow canyon]

idk what you mean but no - there's no way Pachy would be that strong from ermm "biology" point of view - it doesn't really make sense from game-balance point of view either but that playable is just broken and will likely keep on fluctuating between completely overpowered and a dumpsterfire

[dawn falcon]

You were better off inflicting a leg fracture than a body fracture. Lol
It was utterly useless

[frail bobcat]

But body did stuff

[dawn falcon]

Now in this update it’s utterly overpowered

[frail bobcat]

Yes

[dawn falcon]

Barely marginal LOL

[frail bobcat]

Having half stam destroys you

[dawn falcon]

Still wasn’t enough to be any more than useless if the person is competent. You’ll kill the Pachy by the time your stamina runs out

[frail bobcat]

But pachy got so many more buffs, so it made no sense for it to recieve another one

[wintry halo]

Fr

You could litterally ride a utah if you knew what you was doing as carno and had some experience fighting utahs

[scarlet haven]

im talking about the stamina drain

one of the key features of dinosaurs were air sacs distributed through their skeletons- hollow bones, like modern birds have. made them lighter but its primary function was to improve their respiration

get your skeleton busted, those air sacs are punctured and unusable, you cant breath as well...poorer stamina

[hollow canyon]

that's more so "physiology"/"anatomy" but I get what you mean

[scarlet haven]

its all under the same umbrella ye

hollow bones are extremely vulnerable to blunt force damage tho, as opposed to bones like those in mammals which resist impact well but are weak to torsion

so pachy would be a nightmare to deal with as another dinosaur 🥴

but. still not good for game balance imo, pachy could already throttle carno if it knew what it was doing

[hollow canyon]

nah, the hollow bones of dinosaurs weren't necessarily easier to break that those of mammals, there were some tests done on that and they were actually very tough

also Pachy wouldn't be ramming things irl like it does in the game

[wintry halo]

Didnt dinos have a amazing healing rate too?

[thin mantle]

Pachy is a remarkably frail animal for looking so terrifying

[wintry halo]

Same goes for carno🤷🏾‍♂️

[thin mantle]

Only frail in relation to its perception…most people think it’s made of steel

[hollow canyon]

I mean that is so obvious that I don't think I even needed to mention it

[wintry halo]

You be suprised🤣