balance-feedback-discussion

[azure crescent]

komodos swim to nearby islands to mate sometimes

[frail bobcat]

I think max 30 kmh for short bursts considering it will be able to use the water pretty well and its chonk

[azure crescent]

i don't think megalania should have short bursts of running stam

it should have stam lower than teno ofc but its a monitor lizard and those can endurance hunt sometimes

[frail bobcat]

Ok didnt know that

[dusky surge]

irl, komodos dont sprint for very ling

[azure crescent]

so i'd say like as much stam as a carno at around 30-37 km/h?

[azure crescent]

for lizards they do

[frail bobcat]

Not 37 kmh that is pretty fast but I think we can settle on 30ish

[azure crescent]

unlike most other cold blooded animals they can breathe effectively while running

[dusky surge]

30 might be TOO slow, idk

[azure crescent]

the camera shakes a lot but you can see it chase the deer for quite a distance without slowing down

[dusky surge]

(might wanna delete that soon before mods see btw)

word of warning

[azure crescent]

ye just wanted to show it sprinting

[dusky surge]

i won't tell, obviously, but yea

[azure crescent]

didnt know about the second clip

[dusky surge]

its clearly not gonna catch anything in small tier in a race

[azure crescent]

i mean yea ofc but it needs to have atleast mediocre stamina

[dusky surge]

irl, komodos are believed to move at 20km/hr, although in the Isle, we can inflate this value

[azure crescent]

absolutely

specially if they make the sprint animation good

[dusky surge]

For Komodo mobility (imho)

• Okay sprint speed (not great)
• Good water speed
• Dive capable
• Can see underwater proficiently
• Can climb (juvi stage)

[azure crescent]

sounds about right

i'll put the speed at 34 km/h

not too slow not too fast

one thing that does worry me is what the meg would do if a teno decided to just chase it down

because a teno can like 4 shot a megalania

[dusky surge]

for attacks, i'd give mega

• bite
• special bite??? (applies venom?)
• tail whip

[azure crescent]

the special bite would have a decent bleed value yes?

[dusky surge]

normal bite could have decent bleed. Mega should just FUCK you up

[azure crescent]

mega should have its bites have seperate bleed values because anti coagulant and all that

[dusky surge]

mega being slower is fine if its whole shtick is
A: Fuck you up in seven different ways for getting fucked with
B: Eating random shit it stumbles upon regardless of how rank it is

[azure crescent]

i'd give megalania ~75-100 N biteforce

special bite is same damage but with venom with undecided effects

and i'd say the tail whip should deal some nasty damage (CC/knockback maybe?) cuz its a defensive attack

[hexed sorrel]

I played carno for the 4th time. the other 3 times I died to starvation. I came across a 7+ utah pack, and i died. and from my experience, it is completely FINE. I managed to kill 2 utahs, and a deino mixpacked with em which didnt help, I had to keep running away from it. but besides that, I feel like these utah packs SHOULD be able to kill a single carno. the problem I have with carno is the hunger simply drains TOO quick. and with utah, there needs to be more of a punishment on missing a pounce. I like that it gets up quick, however it needs a bigger STAMINA punishment. it gets up quick sure it's an agile animal. but it needs to be a much bigger stamina punishment.

[azure crescent]

Megalania stats

• 1050 hp
• Reduced headshot damage + bleed and fracture resistant in head area
  (100 N attack would deal 75 N on head and 1000 bleed would do 500 on head, essentially giving its head a 2100 bloodpool)
• No "weak" spots

Mobility and juvie stage

• Okay sprint speed (30-34 km/h)
• Mediocre stamina (40-60 seconds)
• Good water speed (Faster than teno by a bit)
• Dive capable (2-3 minute breath timer)
• Group limit of 3
• Can see underwater proficiently
• No cannibal debuffs
• Can climb (Up to ~60% in juvie stage)
• Juvie stage is faster than adults reach speeds of maybe 39-40 km/h at their peak
• 100/100 rot resistance, resistance starts somewhat low in juvenile stage at around 30/100 (see: https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/401481371249541120/1000915621808177272)

Combat stats/attacks

LMB - bite (75-100 N damage with 200-300 bleed values)
RMB - special bite??? (applies venom with whatever effects it should have)
ALT + LMB - tail whip (100-175 N with potential CC/knockback maybe?)

TL;DR: Megalania, although not the fastest in its tier, should not be something to be messed with, as if you provoke it enough, it can punish you in many different ways, be it with a nasty tail whip or a venomous bite.
Survivability wise, megalania is quite good and viable, as it can climb in early life stages (puts it in direct competition with herreras) and dive underwater whenever it wants to, whether it be to attack baby crocs/fish or to flee from predators.
This animal is strong both offensively and defensively, with a venom that takes action in very short periods of time, powerful bleeding capabilities and no weak spots on its body.

how's this?

[hexed sorrel]

seems pretty good, however I feel 1050 health is a bit much, unless im underestimating megalania's weight?

[keen plover]

It needs the bulk imo

[hexed sorrel]

yeah ik but maybe 650 health would be enough

[azure crescent]

you are

megalania is quite fragmentary but there are things that suggest very large individuals

also it's the size that's on nova's size chart so i just went with that

[lavish jungle]

is it normal i can see deinosuchus moving underwater or is it a bug ? like you can clearly see the outlines of him swimming underwater

[keen plover]

bug, very common bug

Been here for ages

[lavish jungle]

just noticed it for the first time now i now why everyone runs away when i come swimming even though im 2 meters underwater

[dusky surge]

@odd pebble i do adore how we've come from "utahraptor pounce is literally useless unreliable trash" to "okay guys calm down we didn't want it to be THAT reliable" in a single patch

def needs looking at but god is it an amusing parallel

[azure hinge]

I mean it looks like he was pretty on target, I guess maybe hit the middle of your tail, but it's just how they do the animation for it. They made it a hit scan instead of a projectile

And also it's animation even after it connects is going to teleport a direction if you turn your dino because they don't really account for the other dinosaurs movement

That's right before he does the hit scan turn

[keen plover]

also ping

[azure hinge]

But you also have to keep into account this game has a lot of desync; think about how many times your bite goes through dinos

Aka desync also effected by ping yes

Idk I think this type of problem has massively negated by animation and maybe for something like a pounce ignore the hit box on like 60% of a tail

Depending on a dinosaur

Larger dinosaur more room to grapple a tail and also add animation to it where it looks like it grabs tail then pulls forward to bite the side

[raw reef]

why are we geting so much talk/suggestions about megalania?is it coming out soon

[dusky surge]

popular animal

(thats it)

[azure crescent]

it’s a good animal, also I did most of them recently

i just got a series of ideas for megalania and shared them is all

[raw reef]

oh lmao i tought it was coming out soon

got excited

[azure crescent]

i wish

wdyt of it

[raw reef]

really really cool ideas,but i doubt it will be like this considering the isle

[odd pebble]

Lol ikr

[odd pebble]

I had no issues with dodging pounces last patch but its near impossible to do that against the "heat seeking" utah pounce this patch

It needs some slight tweaking but they are on the right track

[azure hinge]

yea i agree think a lot of stuff needs work it seems a lot more hit scanny when should be more like a projectile

and doesnt help that the animation is whack

[odd pebble]

Yeah

[dusky surge]

although, all things considered, i still like how utah is actually relevant in the meta again (finally)

[azure crescent]

@mystic cedar mind explaining the downvote?

[mystic cedar]

Oop my bad folk, tbh I actually meant to hit check on that one lmfao, excited for megalania

[azure crescent]

oh

[dusky surge]

lmao

[azure crescent]

lmao all good

[dusky surge]

that's quite a beautiful resolution

[azure crescent]

good ending

[mystic cedar]

Haha, yeh I was looking for what you were talking bout til I saw the magalania n I was like oh shit that one haaha

[hasty coyote]

@errant plinth I dislike the idea of making pachy omnivorous, even just as a juvie. Pachy has no reason to be Omni other than to clean up the mess it makes. However, I feel that not eating meat but being aggressive brings more to the game. It gives plenty of bodies for juvies to scavenge on and allows other herbies to have the opportunistic scavenger ability: such as Gali or potentially Diablo or styraco. Even then, most of those opportunistic scavengers are classified as omnivores, like Gali.

Plus, everything about pachy is against eating meat. It’s supposed to be less-lethal and “break and run” for most fights, their damage was nerfed to lower the “break and beat to death” strategy’s effectiveness.

[errant plinth]

true, i dont expect my suggestion to be popular but well i thought it would actually make more sense than galli because i cant see galli eating meat unless they really redesign its beak to not be so harmless looking, but pachy i could but yeah some sort of conflict between herbivores and carnivores besides herbivores wanting to be dicks or carnivores being hungry would be a welcome addition.

[slim dragon]

I wouldn't mind pachy being omni, but I find than it being able to eat meat only as a juvie is weird

Also Isle pachy is clearly designed as a herbivore and not as a hunter, idk how it would get its meat, unless it's made into a scavenger

[hasty coyote]

Gali likely won’t be running around scavenging from the corpse of a stego, but likely just eating small things it can fit in its mouth. Mostly lone juvies, hypsis, and eggs. This type of behavior is common in irl herbivores, you can find many images of stuff like a cow slurping on a snake.

Other than that: there are many ways to make herbies fight other herbies and carnis. Herbies could fight over limited food sources. If there’s only a few orange trees around, a pachy is likely to kill a dryo to make sure they keep the oranges. Or you could make nesting grounds only give the bonus when one species is nearby, so herbies would fight over who gets to nest, potentially with carnivores too. However, 90% of carni v herbie combat is because carnis are hungry or herbies are defensive.

[slim dragon]

or KOS

[hasty coyote]

That too, but I was trying to talk about incentivized combat, not just people being people.

[hasty coyote]

Again, I have gotten no explanation for the ❌s. I really just want to understand the whole picture and see why people disagree. Did I just put too much damage? Do they want to force pachy to only break and run? Do they think the fight is balanced? I have literally no clue.

[quasi patio]

I like the idea of making the downward ram actually useful in combat. If you get hit by pachy's ram, you should get punished for it, just like getting hit by a utah pounce or carno charge is very punishing. Unless you run for your life, the fractures usually get ignored and they'll kill you anyway. With utah's agility, getting hit by pachy should be a "you fucked up" moment.

[hexed sorrel]

people just put x when they see dont buff pachy damage. they don't ready the whole thing.

[hasty coyote]

Maybe, that wouldn’t surprise me

But I literally say buff a different thing in the same sentence. So unless all 5 people read 1.5 sentences and quit…

[wise obsidian]

People are not obligated to give you answers, but i'll chip in

Its not that the other ideas/solutions arent good

Its just that pachy was already in a good state beforehand

Before the ram/alt bite nerf it was a pretty good match for utahs

A prey item that could be easily bled out but needed to be hunted with caution

Fractures arent death sentences if you know what you're doing, even legs because a packmate can distract for you while you go into a bush, or if you're solo it's already easy to weave away from rams/alts. And again, go into a bush, and since you're not bleeding, the pachy will be unable to find you unless you have like a horrendously bright skin

I've been playing pachy alone and you're almost required to find a group or stay hidden because utahs shred you. The ones that are shit get dogpiled, run off, and then some other pounces you to keep a distraction. It took only a few rams/alts to kill a single utah last update, and now it takes much more

[fresh laurel]

killing carnos that easily is not what I consider the most balanced thing ever tbh

[wise obsidian]

I mean

If you're decent at carno you can kill pachies pretty well lol, even last update

[fresh laurel]

also leg break is a death wish if the enemy is alone

but if they have friends then you should run as much as you can tbh

unless they are utahs...

[wise obsidian]

And pachys still kill carnos regardless. Source: did it myself a few days ago

It didnt take that many people

[fresh laurel]

yes but the fact pachys had the strength to kill carnos like that was pretty horrible :P

[wise obsidian]

Like i said. They still can

[fresh laurel]

but its way harder

[wise obsidian]

Kind of

[fresh laurel]

makes you rather break and run usually

[wise obsidian]

It used to be a formidable prey item and now its just bad. The only people who complained were carno mains and utahs that ran head first into your ram

[fresh laurel]

pachy should break and run from things larger than it tbh

utah vs pachy though rn could use work

[wise obsidian]

Duh. Thats what the devs want

[fresh laurel]

and thats how pachy is rn for the most part

[wise obsidian]

But its not gonna stop players from trying to kill their enemy

[fresh laurel]

then they will die and learn the hard way lol

I mean you arent suppose to be able to kill everything :P

sometimes you just gotta run

[wise obsidian]

I know that

[fresh laurel]

then whats the issue now...?

I sense text wall

[wise obsidian]

Me and a pachy family i had, had a carno attack us. We got it a good bit but it got one of us, and im not one to body camp so we left it alone. Like we "should do" amirite
It came back 20 min later, and i knew because it was the same skin as last time. It killed 2 more people before me and someone else finished it off

What's wrong with a text wall

[fresh laurel]

too much to read

[wise obsidian]

Your problem then

[fresh laurel]

currently yea

[fresh laurel]

if you had that many pachys then just kill it tbh

[wise obsidian]

Majority of them were babies

[fresh laurel]

how many adults

[wise obsidian]

2-3

[fresh laurel]

how can there be 2 or 3? werent you there 🤔

[wise obsidian]

??

[fresh laurel]

ok but fr 3 pachys should be capable of killing a carno

[wise obsidian]

What are you talking about

[fresh laurel]

you said 2 to 3 adults

[wise obsidian]

Well, let me elaborate

We had 2 before the carno killed the other adult. Then i was the only adult. There were 2 subs almost adults, the carno killed 1 of them on the second attack and the other was like 90% while we were killing it off

Does that make sense

[fresh laurel]

yea

[wise obsidian]

Kay

[fresh laurel]

anyways you broke the carno leg and made it hard to track you?

avoided the area...?

[wise obsidian]

Nah. It found us. We left for agave

You preach running off after breaking a leg when carnis can track you all the same

Whether that be blood or footprints

[fresh laurel]

you can make your tracks harder to track

[wise obsidian]

I know mudpools exist

[fresh laurel]

like going backwards... going in multiple directions

[fresh laurel]

wasnt gonna say that but ok

[wise obsidian]

Not to mention these were randoms i was playing with so we were constantly chatting. Not that i wanted to, but they wouldnt shut up so that probably contributed.

[fresh laurel]

yea

[wise obsidian]

Pachy wont really have a problem with future carnivores that are slower. Its just stuff like utah, carno, and troodon. They have the speed

[fresh laurel]

troodon requires a small bite to kill lmao

[wise obsidian]

Break a leg on a bary, sure. Utah? It'll either get its friends or track you, prolly both

[fresh laurel]

but a pack of them should trouble anything tbh except probably utah due to agility ig?

[fresh laurel]

now tbf Utah and pachy are the closest in size

I would call the 2 rivals currently

[wise obsidian]

Which is why a hit from a pachy on a utah should be devastating. Which its not

It even weighs more

[fresh laurel]

maybe... make pachy attacks take less stamina?

[wise obsidian]

Probably

[fresh laurel]

pachy needs stam to fight utah so...

making it have more stam to keep fighting could help

[wise obsidian]

The issue is that pachy isn't meant to outlast its enemy, it's just a brawler

[fresh laurel]

or buff body fracture to be more deadly?

[wise obsidian]

Yeah more stamina to kill more utahs, or run away faster.. but what about bleeding lmao

[fresh laurel]

make jumping and pounce do damage with body fracture maybe?

running could drain more stam than now idk

[fresh laurel]

running isnt an option with utah

utah will and always should be the more agile and faster one so...

[wise obsidian]

Depends

[fresh laurel]

on...?

[wise obsidian]

I'm not saying running away from the fight entirely. Just getting someplace that's easier to defend in

[fresh laurel]

you cant with utah due to bleed

you just have to stand your ground :P

[wise obsidian]

So why suggest stamina buffs? Those attacks will eventually add up and the stamina regen will be little to none

[fresh laurel]

though when your stamina regen becomes mush you will still have stamina to attack more...

From what I can see pachys dont conserve stamina the best

[mystic cedar]

Pachy and teno most of all have taught me the hard way to conserve my stamina tbh

[fresh laurel]

ikr

though I dont think pachys have much of a choice vs utah

they just gotta pray they land a hit

and if the utah is good...

[mystic cedar]

Yeah, utahs usually arent good at conserving stam either when I think bout it, with pounce alone. Usually what discerns a good one from a bad one

[fresh laurel]

pouncing a pachy alone with no help is fine actually

pachy cant try to punish you that much or else... bleed

[mystic cedar]

Yeah, I'm more talking bout people not knowing when to jump off, that was my issue at first too

[fresh laurel]

I mostly see utahs know when to get off tbh

though the nerf to utah pounce stamina drain did catch me off guard

[mystic cedar]

Yeh haha fr

[fresh laurel]

also I like how many people want Utah pounce to be nerfed when it comes to landing it when thats how its always been :P

they nerfed the impact damage and stuff of it... fixed the trees not sliding raptors off, bucking hits stamina harder

[wise obsidian]

Trees still knock utahs off

[fresh laurel]

yea

thats what I said :/

[wise obsidian]

Misread

[mystic cedar]

I do feel like failed pachy headbutt is insane, especially compared to failed pounce

Recovery time that is

[fresh laurel]

like the endlag is too much?

[mystic cedar]

Mainly with the recovery and punishablitlity, whiffed headbutt is so punishable rn, pachy cant really afford to miss. And whiffed utah pounce is pretty safe for the most part. Either headbutt needs a better recovery or something to make it more worth the risk of missing and standing still for so long

[fresh laurel]

I think you should be trying to use alt ram more against utah

not rmb unless you are sure you can land it

land the alt attack and then use rmb to hopefully break a leg

alt attack still hits hard too and the stun is helpful

while having less endlag

[mystic cedar]

Yeh but still tho, that whiff is deadly, utah or not, if your tryna fracture something so that you can run and you miss, ya don't got a chance to get away unless they mess up really bad

[fresh laurel]

maybe tap ram could use slightly less endlag but the punish should be there

[fresh laurel]

the heck is whiff

that smell?

[mystic cedar]

When an attack misses

[fresh laurel]

oh

tbf pachy probably has to most trouble fracturing utah compared to anything else in the game

which is to be expected in a way

[mystic cedar]

Yeh cuz they hella agile

[hasty coyote]

It was fine before but the new changes lowered pachy's raw damage and stun durations heavily while increasing utah's effectiveness. However, they would have to increase pachy's stun durations again and buff pachy's damage again to revert it back. Increasing the stun duration and buffing alt attacks is a viable option, which I had in my post. However, increasing the raw damage of ram is a bad idea for the reasons I had in the post. They nerfed pachy's ram damage to force it to break and run from things like carnos (which now take about 19 hits to kill) unless there is a major skill issue that allows the pachies to bully a wounded carno, which I have done multiple times this update.

My main issue currently is that pachy is in a decent spot against carnos and it should be changed as little as possible, but pachy lacks the lethality it needs against utahs. It takes 8 alt attacks or 5 rams to kill a utah, meanwhile utah just needs to land 2-3 pounces, and the first one basically cripples the pachy. That is why I suggested ways to increase its lethality against specifically smaller targets, rather than overall lethality.

Also, I agree that a pack of utahs can shred a pachy and pachies should avoid packs at all costs. But currently a 1v1 is utah favored, when it should be pachy favored since pachy is slower. I also disagree with the "just pack up" mentality, utah are literally able to do the same and encouraged to as well.

Thank you for the answer, sorry I couldnt reply sooner

[fresh laurel]

I just gave my opinion on Utah :P

[grave veldt]

That was my concern as well I personally like pachy against carno as it’s way better then before although it performs a little undertuned when fighting Utah

[rapid flicker]

Buffing Utah and nerfing pachy created an awkward situation where they just switch places. Utah way to strong against pachy now where pachy can’t do anything.

Only buffing or nerfing 1 would have been enough

[slender aspen]

Situation:
We are in water as deinos (our element). Some are adults, some juvies. There are 5+ of us.
Stego comes harrassing us. Only 1 that is.
We try to put a stop to it, biting it 10+ times (We all nearly die)
Stego won´t leave us alone, seems to be overpowering 5+ deinos IN WATER
We go on land where the Stego is healing, 5 of us are biting in in constant attacks, bite after bite.
It just won´t die.
Few of us survive and we have to leave.

We were terrified because imagine what 2 Stegos would be able to do, if only 1 Stego is capable of wiping out a whole Deino family in their element.
It just wouldn´t die when 5 Deinos were biting it multiple times on land, easily 25+ bites in a short duration.

So someone who knows a lot more about these types of cases, can you please explain? Stegos (or just 1) are terrifying, even when you have 5+ Deinos biting it non-stop without any results, where the Stego actually just wrecked us despite not being any kind of god player.

So all in all, 2 Stegos could easily wipe the whole map out of the existence with one tail swing, at least that´s how it seems like.

[hasty coyote]

So, y’all were either biting the tail that whole time, that stego was hacking, or you’re lying about the amount of bites.

It takes only 6 bites to the head to kill a stego, 12 to the body.

[slender aspen]

Yup, I don´t see any reason to lie though. However, it´s the internet after all, so it´s kind of impossible to gain anyone´s full trust. But I do not see any reason to lie in this case.

[mellow zenith]

A 5 deino family ? Damn, thats a lot of teeth

[slender aspen]

I usually don´t talk anything actually, but this case felt so weird so I had to bring it up.

[slender aspen]

Yup, I was with a friend and we swam to the centre area, where we saw a lot of other deinos chilling as well.

And then Stego came rushing in the water and we were like bruhhhh what the heck is happening

Now imagine what 2 Stegos could do XD

[hasty coyote]

I’m just giving all the options, because that situation makes no sense

[slender aspen]

Yeah, fair enough

[mellow zenith]

Stego able to troll/kill deino when in the water (well almost all of its body in the water) is so f up

[slender aspen]

Yes well I thought we had the upper hand since there were 5+ deinos and we were in water.

I was wrong though, kek

[mellow zenith]

I don't approuve the 5+ deino but i agree for the rest

[raw reef]

@dusk sequoia lmao lost an adult stego to this

[slender aspen]

Yes, not sure if anyone else has had similar experiences, or if this was just a weird one.

[hasty coyote]

I know people who have trouble dealing with stegs, but to that extent seems like the stego was hacking.

[slender aspen]

Well, the Stego was awfully brave, just rushing in the water and killing everything

Only 1-2 hits and we were already at the brink of death, but many many bites at the Stego didn´t seem to care much. Who knows, maybe the hits registered on its legs only or something (?)

[hasty coyote]

That part isn’t surprising, many do that purely because they have nothing else to do and can escape when things go bad.

The surprising part is the amount of hits it tanked. Unless y’all bit it’s tail like 70% of the time

[slender aspen]

Yeah, well at the ground we did circle it and bit it from every angle.

And we were just clicking attack like crazy

Alt attack for sure as well

"WHY WONT YOU DIE"

But anyways, it´s not the end of the world neither does it affect anything in a bad way, but just wanted to discuss this crazy happening XD

[hasty coyote]

Well a headshot from a stego does almost 2k damage, who’s is almost 1/4 of your hp. And regular hits do about 1/6th

[slender aspen]

Yea, I felt like it´s ability to withstand our attacks was the biggest "bruh" moment. And the only thing that I thought was that 2 Stegos could easily whip the river in half.

Not because of their damage, but because of their super tankiness, I suppose.

[hasty coyote]

Yeah, generally crocs don’t want to mess with multiple stegs. It’s rough to kill 1, any more becomes exponentially more difficult.

[slender aspen]

And what makes things weird that water is kind of supposed to be Deino´s "element", if you get what I mean.

[slender aspen]

Yup, I am traumatized.

[hasty coyote]

They aren’t as tanky as that one y’all fought, unless you get only tail bites. Just go for the head and kill it in 6-8 bites while it only gets body hits at most on you. If it runs, then you back off.

[slender aspen]

Yea, I will definitely look into it at some point and maybe see if we could get more head bites. We did bite its body a lot though, I am sure.

But maybe the balance is adjusted after all, since playing a Stego wouldn´t be much fun if it was slow and weak.

Not sure if Deinos could eventually gain some kind of better upper hand in their own element, though. In a way that it would be more unfortunate for the Stego to rush in and try rule the whole river.

[hasty coyote]

Yeah if you don’t go for the head, you’re screwed. Stego has a 2x head multiplier (everything else has 1.5), can tank 12 hits on the body, and won’t be able to hit your head if you’re on their head.

[slender aspen]

Yep, I feel like all of us Deinos tried our best (everyone did their part) but maybe it just wasn´t enough that time around.

[golden coral]

@slender aspenHow many actual adults did you have, because any juvies and stuff ... well, you can't count them that much because they're not going to have much power.

You mentioned a family of five, but then you mentioned juvies as well, so, hard to say much when the actual power you presented can vary rather much.

[slender aspen]

3 adults, 2 juvies, then some really young deinos as well (that tried to do their best but obviously didn´t stand a chance)

[mystic cedar]

Swim away?

You dont have to fight it

[golden coral]

In that case I'd say you may have just made some bad decisions. If you had three adults, and the fight started in the water/at the shoreline where you could manuever and lunge and all, you should have at least been able to make that stego regret going near. It does take a bit of effort and planning, since the trick is to lunge and stun the stego with one of you, while the other one or two immediately moves into position and starts to bite/alt bite on the head and otherwise on the body. If the stego gets the quick jab angle in, it might still kill one of you, but at that point it should be so badly hurt, especially if one of you is biting its head, that it'll have to run or it dies. In general you don't want to just trade bites, especially on land, since you're not very agile there, and if it moves away from the shoreline, it's no longer being a bother, so goal achieved at that point. The fight is doable, two or more deinos are able to take on a solo stego, you just need to know how to go about it, and that's not always easy since normally you just grab and drown stuff, or just bite/alt bite each other, which isn't how to handle a stego.

[grave veldt]

2,600 dmg for head shot it does big numbers

[stark knoll]

Not to a deino

Only stego has the 2x headshot

[grave veldt]

no yea not for deino cuz it has 1.5

1,950 it does which is also quite a lot

[hasty coyote]

Yeah it takes 5 hits to kill a deino with headshots, the 4th leaves you at a sliver. So it’s generally a bad idea to bite the tail lol.

[grave veldt]

wow who would've guessed that trying to fight the pointy end of the stego is a bad idea

[hasty coyote]

@teal dove I’m sorry you dislike Utah’s playstyle, but it is a glass cannon. Your entire goal is to use your superior agility to dodge attacks then attack with your own high damage.

If they buff utahs hp, then you have to buff its weight. That means it can pin pachy, which means pachy needs a buff. Which then means it’s too hard for carno to kill pachy, so it needs a buff. By the end of the chain, we end up no different than we started.

The only way to make utah more tanky, but still fair, would be to rework the whole dino. And at that point, just add a different dino to play.

[serene forge]

As far as combat goes id say the balance is pretty well done, yes steggos are tough but they can be killed and there are no large predators yet to compare them to.

The carnivore food system is about the only problem i actually have with this game. AI is scarce enough to starve to death, small animals dont provide enough food to survive and there arent enough of them to make up for it. Yes you can and should be hunting players but servers arent full 24/7 you wont always see players online.

Basically this game just needs more AI for carnivores to survive Its frustrating to grow a carno to adulthood only to starve to death because the only thing i could find in an hour was an adult hypsi wich gave 2.0 food.

[fresh laurel]

Imo i think utah is balanced for the most part anyways :P

I dont get why everyone is saying its so broken where it needs heavy nerfs

I do think pounce draining your stamina should happen slower

And juvie utah needs to not have this much buck resistance

[fresh laurel]

One thing i dont get is how come the devs are trying so hard to encourage more hunts from carnivores while they ignore how herbivore dont compete for their food supply (they cant even starve either smh) causes them to not have to move all that much

[dense hamlet]

stegos are fine how they are, they shouldn't be easy prey for the dinos that are presently in the game. And it is very possible to take one down. if you can't kill one, don't fight one. my opinion on the mater

[fresh laurel]

Also why does carno have a ai for all 3 nutrients

Not even utah has that

[dusky surge]

because carno

[fresh laurel]

But what happened to ez grow on carno is bad

[dusky surge]

i mean

[fresh laurel]

💀

[dusky surge]

the 50% nutrient thing is gone

[fresh laurel]

Still ai for all 3 nutrients

[dusky surge]

not nearly as bad imho

[fresh laurel]

No defending that

[dusky surge]

U4 carno is easier imho because it was carried by ez 50% nutrients and cruised the rest of the time

Having to seek out boar is fine

[fresh laurel]

I mean now carno has less reason to hunt a certain playable for a nutrient

[fresh laurel]

All 3 nutrients have one ai 💀

The heck

Thought goat was gonna be carnos goto food

[dusky surge]

again, you gotta remember that carno no longer has the free 50% growth

That's genuinely huge

[fresh laurel]

Meh

Still huge that it has ai for each nutrient

[dusky surge]

Not really in comparison to what it lost

[fresh laurel]

That was a global thing so i dont really care tbh

But a ai for each nutrient is pretty dumb

[dusky surge]

Ehhhh

I mean, carno also loses those nutrients MUCH faster than every other animal

Insane hunger drain and all

[fresh laurel]

Meh

Still gives carno a higher chance of having 3 nutrients most of the time

[dusky surge]

Not really

You aren't guaranteed to find this AI

And boar is pretty hotly contested by utah packs

[fresh laurel]

You wont have much trouble getting nutrients with carno at all tbh

[vernal summit]

Please if the Developers could read this and fix it, it would make the game more popular: Add more AI spawns, aswell as lower the time it takes to grow.... Dying to starvation is the #1 killer in this game and its annoying, you spend a literal 16 hours growing to 78% and die to lack of AI or even players. I spent 16 hours growing and died to starvation because the game lacks any sufficient AI or Player spawns. You find 2 AI and then no more spawn for hours and its like, how can you play a game if you cant even eat? Whats the point of investing days of your life if you just die in 5 minutes because the lack of AI spawns? Even servers that say "HIGH AI COME JOIN!!!" have 1 AI for 100 players to share... its not good mechanics and if the developers are more worried about rushing a game for money, it wont last long.

[fresh laurel]

No players? Get ai

No ai? Find players at a hotspot

[dusky surge]

This dude literally comes in saying there's not enough AI

[fresh laurel]

Meh add more rabbit and chicken spawns

🥱

[vernal summit]

Literally spent 16 hours of my life just to die be killed by hunger because of lack of spawning AI

[fresh laurel]

Rabbits should have one of the higher populations in the game tbh

[stark knoll]

Servers can not change ai spawn rates, those are "clickbaiting" you, in a way

[vernal summit]

Its the developers fault

[stark knoll]

That's not at all what I was referring to but ok

[vernal summit]

Why push for more dinos when the ones you already have out cannot even survive 16 hours?

[stark knoll]

What were you playing?

[vernal summit]

Evrima

[fresh laurel]

My only problem is how little food gives now, and how slow eating is tbh. Not the ai spawns

[stark knoll]

I meant species

[vernal summit]

Evrima has maybe 1% more spawns but its not much better

I died to hunger because no AI or Players

Players just arent around

[vernal summit]

Deino

[fresh laurel]

Legacy had more ai spawns because ai spawned near you when you got hungry lol

[vernal summit]

1 little rat spawned that gave 9% food...

not very helpful

[fresh laurel]

Yall gotta admit, eating is hella slow rn

At least let me just have to tap it smh

[vernal summit]

So why are they pushing more dinos if the current ones cant even survive 16 hours?

[fresh laurel]

But they can lol

[vernal summit]

Hardly

[fresh laurel]

Just surviving is harder for carnivores while herbivores get the dumb no starve gameplay

[vernal summit]

So the developers should fix the carnivores, not add more broken ones

[fresh laurel]

Maybe for carno and deino but i managed to grow utah pretty fine

[fresh laurel]

Carnivores are fixed, the current food system is the issue

[dusky surge]

im gonna be honest with you

im doubting troodon is going to struggle that much with food

[stark knoll]

Diets are receiving an overhaul with update 6, both for carnivores and herbivores

[vernal summit]

This game in its current form is like me trying to drive my car with 0 wheels

[dusky surge]

idk why you struggle so much with food

[vernal summit]

Because broken spawns

[dusky surge]

when im hungry, i eat whatever i can, regardless of diet

and generally that keeps me alive

[vernal summit]

I just quit playing because im not wasting another 16 hours dying again

Food isnt the only issue

grow timers are another one, it takes days to fully grow

This game is meant to be a survival game, but really its just grow simulator 2022

[dusky surge]

idk, being desperate for food seems pretty survival-esque to me

[vernal summit]

I mean, some people like starving, its fine and all, but im not a fan of wasting time because someone wants money

[dusky surge]

money???

what the fuck does money have to do with this

[vernal summit]

Both the release and the beta have the same problems and both cost the same amount of money lol

No effort is made to fix the issues

[dusky surge]

release? beta? what?

[fresh laurel]

You pay 20 bucks for evrima and legacy if thats what you mean

[dusky surge]

"yesss, we will make the gameplay purposely unenjoyable and difficult, this will SURELY increase profits, mwahahaha"

very logical business plan if I do say so myself

[vernal summit]

Also if you look in the AI feedback, every person in there, long before I said my post, has mentioned the no AI spawn issue and it hasnt been fixed still. Doesnt that say something about how the Devs feel about the feedback the community gives?

[slim dragon]

That means feedback always has to be taken with a grain of salt because if there are 500 people complaining about the lack of AI, there's still several million people who say nothing and may find it good how it is

[serene forge]

the simple fact is that in a game were you spend hours of your day growing a dino, assuming something doesnt kill you before you reach adulthood, you shouldnt starve to death while looking for AI not being able to find them.

I dont mind losing my dino to a player while im growing or after ive grown. I dont mind the possibility of starving to death. what bothers me is starving to death even tho im actively looking for ai and just not finding enough of them to sustain myself.

it isnt fun and defeats the purpose of playing as a carnivore.

[slim dragon]

Yes, but the fact you can't find them doesn't mean no one can. That's what I'm trying to explain an the reason why devs haven't changed anything yet (also they're not gonna make an update just to increase AI spawns)

[serene forge]

no what im saying is that i can find them. there just arent enough to sustain.

some of them give very little food.

[slim dragon]

Although I would prefer a world that is highly populated by creatures and looks alive, I have't had much trouble finding food as a carni so far
Ofc it's not easy, but I've never starved to death either

Maybe you're not supposed to be able to sustain yourself only off ai either ?

Imo there are more outstanding problems in the game rn than the supposed lack of ai

[serene forge]

For example. in 2 hours i found a rabbit a hypsi and a carno. i ate the rabbit and the hypsi and was starving to death by the time i found the carno. the carno ran and i couldnt catch him. leading to me starving out.

The idea of not being able to sustain yourself on only AI doesnt work. The servers dont always have enough players to reliably hunt.

[keen plover]

True

[serene forge]

Not everyone has free time to play games when the server is populated.

when you first spawn in as a juvi you start with very little food. within a few min your starving to death if you dont find food.

[slim dragon]

This is one of the other, more outsanding problems I mentioned earlier

Carni diets as a whole are a problem

[serene forge]

you cant catch a deer, and a boar will kill you.

As it stands right now carni survival is impossible to reliably sustain due to a lack of reliable food source and that is a problem that needs fixed. Its just not fun to grow a carni only to find yourself desperately searching for food while your starving.

[frail bobcat]

You can get easy AI when you know where to get them, I could easily sustain my utah ( and even a carno if I would grow one) on AI because I know the best AI spots, so I have no problem sustaining myself

[mellow zenith]

I can get the fact that finding AI can be tricky with land playable. But Deino ? Lmao
Its the only carnivore playable that can reliably find Elite fish, you just need to move. And if you don't, its means that there is other deino. If there is other deino, there is probably smaller one, meaning there is food

[serene forge]

Theres a literal map that shows all ai spawns. The issue isnt that i dont know were to look. Its that there just isnt enough ai to reliably support the ecosystem.

[frail bobcat]

The does not show the right spawns and there is enough, trust me, I can find like 5 boars in one specific area of the map constantly

[mellow zenith]

the ecosystem is not based on AI

thats why

AI is bonus imo

feed on players

[calm ibex]

feeding on players basically rewards mixpacking and megapacking and using those 2 to control hotspots, since players wont be able to survive out of hotspots, which further feeds into map being barren wasteland

player based "ecosystem" can only work on rule servers where players have territories and limits to their behavior

[serene forge]

Relying on player kills to sustain food is unreliable. The servers dont always have enough players to depend on enough food.

[hexed sorrel]

can carnos get stun locked by pachy? it may be the reason im a horrible carno which is probably the case since I barely play it but I just got deleted by 2 pachys 💀

[keen plover]

Stun locked implies just constant stunning and you can never escape. Could you not move at all???

They can get 2 hits off in a single window

[serene forge]

Bores kill juvis and i will say they are fairly common to see but this still doesnt solve the issue.

[azure hinge]

I mean to be fair there are spots where no fish spawn for deino too, but it's pretty obvious where they do spawn

[hasty coyote]

Pachies can break your leg and keep bashing. But unless they can land every ram and you have no where to escape, you can live. It takes about 19 rams to actually kill a carno. So you have a lot of opportunities to dodge an attack and bite them back. Or you can find a river and camp near it or swim across. Or find a dense bush and hide in it to dodge the pachy attacks when the run in blindly. Or run into the forest and make it 3x more difficult to find and attack you.

There’s a lot a carno can do to avoid dying to pachies. You just can’t W+M1 and expect to win or even live if the pachies are good.

[mystic cedar]

@shy gull if stego gets nerfed than deino needs a nerf as a result

[shy gull]

dosent bother me. Stego is stupid OP right now i dont care what anyone says. Its not balanced full stop

[mystic cedar]

Meh, I dont think it's stupid op, its def super strong tho fs. But I mean it does take a super long time to grow and it cant chase at all, so getting killed by one is avoidable 9/10. I've never been killed by a stego unless it was my fault (usually too overzealous and impatient) and I've killed a good fair share of stegos too. If they do nerf stego however, they gotta be very careful because I can see that going very bad tbh

Especially because they the only thing that can hold it's own against deino

Maybe they could nerf its stamina but I dont think they should do to much to stego tbh

[mellow zenith]

except for the fact that a deino cannot drown a SWIMMING stego, i don't see the prob in the matchup deino vs stego, because really there isn't really one. Deino mobility prevent it to be a real threat for stego. So its simple, deino need to get the f out, just like current crocodile doesnt mess up with hippo or even rhino

[mystic cedar]

Agreed, one main reason stego is so strong rn is because the larger apexs havent been added

N rn deino, being the strongest, wins against everything else but struggles with stego, because deino has a low skill cap. Arguably one of the lowest. But because their isnt any large apexs yet, that low skill cap is only noticed when fighting stego, because killjng everything else as deino is just buttfuck easy

Deino is more of an opportunist, its not meant to be chasing down shit and killing absolutley everything like some other apexs

[fresh laurel]

Or you could just make pin not pin things its own weight

[frail bobcat]

That would be shitty for the utah vs utah matchup

[fresh laurel]

Meh its a instant death so...

Not really

[slim dragon]

Or just reduce pin damage so it isn't a one-shot for something of your own weight ?

[fresh laurel]

Bleed is the issue now

Prey just bleeds out from it

Prey just bleeds out from it

[frail bobcat]

Thats the point of the pounce/pin

[fresh laurel]

Ik

Never said it shouldnt do high bleed...

[slim dragon]

Well yes
You shouldn't be wanting to tank a pounce anyway so it must be punishing to be hit by one

[frail bobcat]

^

[slim dragon]

At least ot making it an insta one-shot allows the other player to deal damage back to the attacker, maybe pounce them back ? So they regret trying to cannibalize

[fresh laurel]

Both die which is funny

[slim dragon]

yeah

[fresh laurel]

Anyways instead of buffing pachys own weight if utah got a hp buff, it would be simple to make pin not pin the same size things of your weight

[frail bobcat]

@surreal geyser quetz will exist

[slim dragon]

It wouldn't make much sense

[fresh laurel]

How so

[slim dragon]

How could a utah carry another utah on its back and keep running ?

[fresh laurel]

Same way pachy does it

[slim dragon]

The fact you can't pin things slightly heavier than yourself is already far-fetched in terms of realism

[slim dragon]

Yeah, don't make the idiocy even worse

[fresh laurel]

Also it doesnt make sense that you cant resist a pin...

Like no fighting back during it-

[slim dragon]

They're working on an animation in which the utah fights back

[fresh laurel]

Did they specify it will let utah fight back?

[slim dragon]

No but it seems pretty obvious that it will

[fresh laurel]

I thought it was a just a new animation tbh

[slim dragon]

Also creatures already resist when they're being pinned, the pouncer wastes much more stam than when latching (and the target is not bucking)

[fresh laurel]

Yea but doesnt make sense that you cant push them off you with your legs

[slim dragon]

Yes it does
A utah is 500 kg

[fresh laurel]

Would be better to pin them by jumping on their back tbh

[fresh laurel]

450

[slim dragon]

nitpicking

[fresh laurel]

Cope

Anyways you cant push them off with your legs which is weird

Or slash their belly back...

[slim dragon]

That's what the WIP animation is for I guess

[fresh laurel]

Wth doesnt utah pin the animals back instead

I mean seesh

Think only utah animations forces it to be on its back

[slim dragon]

@proud anchor So your opinion is that stego's tail jab should deal less than 20 damage ?

[proud anchor]

Edited. Got distracting writing it.

[slim dragon]

Still don't agree. If stego's tail hit was this weak it would have no chance surviving any apex
It would stand no chance against one carno

[proud anchor]

What I'm saying is that the tail should take substantially less damage.

[slim dragon]

Tail already takes much less damage

I think it's 25%, maybe less

[proud anchor]

Not enough, shouldn't be able to 1-shot a Utah dismounting because you hit the tip of it's tail.

[golden coral]

Tail hits are already weaker yes, especially tips got an extra damage reduction I believe as well.

[mellow zenith]

Wait, someone want to damage take at the tip of the stego tail to be reduced ?

[slim dragon]

I don't think it oneshots a utah when it hits only the tip of its tail

[mellow zenith]

Doesn't tail tip damage already got reduced recently ?

[golden coral]

I don't think it can. Especially not on tailtip, and I believe utah can survive even a base of tail hit, if with very little health left. You most likely got a body hit but lag made it look different.

[slim dragon]

Remember tail hitboxes don't block attacks, so if a stego hits the tip of a utah's tail, then the base of its tail, then its body, it counts as a body hit

[proud anchor]

In which case, the cone should be MASSIVELY reduced. The reach is much larger than the swing, if that's the case.

https://www.twitch.tv/mrdbear/clip/FilthyLachrymoseLarkRiPepperonis-1-gNB00x06pPmtWl?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

[mellow zenith]

That the neat part, in reality, you didn't hit the tip of the tail. Cause if it was the case utah should still be alive

[grave veldt]

most likely a latency issue just like a lot of other things are latency issues as well

[golden coral]

I do think stego has some "extra" reach, so it's able to hit below the tail and maybe a bit above. Not sure if the "reach" extends outwards too.

[mellow zenith]

Agreed

[proud anchor]

If the server can't handle the stego, it should be shelfed.

[mellow zenith]

Pretty sure it doesn't

[grave veldt]

stego does have lower reach when it can attack things under its tail but thats for balancing so you dont have a small juvi creature constantly biting you without being able to kill

[slim dragon]

Still waiting for that "complete control over tail movements" so they can still kill pteras, but without murdering their babies in the process

[grave veldt]

that would be nice

[golden coral]

Possible. I mostly know that there was an issue with being able to "assride" a stego as tiny things like hypsi and small utahs if you stood right at it's base of tail for a while. This was also back when it had less hp and things did more damage, but still, was kind of odd.

[golden coral]

That'd be so good yes!

[mellow zenith]

Those type of inconvenience will go away with trample mechanics, well i hope it will

[grave veldt]

i think this is generally needed especially for larger carnivores later down the line

[golden coral]

Hopefully!

[vernal summit]

Eh, only 2/3 of our playerbase cannot find food or play the game properly, but the other 1/3 hasnt said anything about it so it must be good, lets keep pushing more dinos and less AI and make people pay for it. That will get us very far!

[vernal summit]

More issues, like needing more and more playable dinos?

[frail bobcat]

I doubt its 2/3 of the playerbase

Maybe a majority of the people are quiet because there is nothing that needs to be improved

[slim dragon]

Where are you pulling those numbers from ?

[frail bobcat]

Ever heard about the loud minority? Maybe thats the case

[vernal summit]

almost every message in the AI feedback channel is from people wanting AI spawning changed. Its been asked for since this month of last year and it still hasnt even been looked at.

[proud anchor]

The developer on the subject has stated that it's working incorrectly.

[slim dragon]

More issues, like fixing performance/lighting/nightvision/whatever caused update 5 to look like this, getting all core mechanics implemented and functional, redoing carnivore diets (and maybe diets as a whole), getting humans into the game, improviing the map...

[vernal summit]

All of those can take a few months and will require multiple people. Going into the .ini file and changing AI spawn from 1% to even 50% takes 1 person and its a 30 second fix.

[vernal summit]

The #ai-feedback channel

[proud anchor]

AI is going to be a thing whether people want it or not. Dryo and Carno AI said to be making a return soon.

[slim dragon]

How can you tell the ai feedback channel is 2/3 of the playerbase ?

[vernal summit]

Oh yes, you spend the 8 hours it takes to fully grow looking for both AI and Players, and neither are found because the map is a fairly large space and the spawning system doesnt work well and so you spawn nowhere near players. Not only that, Players who play as Herbivores dont ever use rivers, so its impossible to ever see anyone. Carnivores are more common than Herbs but they still are rare. My whole 12 hour game yesterday I saw 3 stegos, 1 raptor, and maybe 1 carno. Finding them was at hour 10 when I was going to log off and I was tired. Finding 1 player every 2 or 3 hours of gameplay isnt fun nor is it good game mechanics.

The "immersiveness" is broken by the lack of AI or player interactions

[frail bobcat]

Maybe you should travel to center

[stark knoll]

2/3rds of this server would be 63,000 people

[proud anchor]

8 hours to grow looking for only players. Nice. Fair, balanced, and enjoyable.
That's how a game dies, right there.

[vernal summit]

Went there and saw nothing. Me and my groupmate traveled across the map to find food for both of us and we found a carno that just ran off up a mountain.

Almost every dino is faster than you, and the ones that are not faster have more health and deal extra damage

so its like, how are you supposed to eat anyway?

[proud anchor]

I'm confused... Are you for, or against AI spawning?

[vernal summit]

Im for, I WANT more AI spawn

but you wanna say im stupid and all that for pointing it out

and im cringing

[proud anchor]

You are cringing, because you acted like I didn't post exactly the same thought.

[vernal summit]

I like the game, but it has alot of issues to be fixed before we get 5 new dinos to play as

[proud anchor]

AI will be a thing whether people want it or not, and is being worked on to be fixed.

[vernal summit]

I want AI, but it seems no fix is being done

[proud anchor]

It is.

[vernal summit]

I understand if the Devs cant fix it right now at this exact moment.

But its a 30 second fix, its not rocket science

[proud anchor]

This isn't the first time it's been targeted.

[slim dragon]

POV : You've never been in game development

[proud anchor]

Or the first time it's been broken...

[vernal summit]

it probably wont be the last at this rate

[vernal summit]

I tried lmao

It was alot of work for 1 man, so I quit.

[stark knoll]

It's a not a 30 second process

[proud anchor]

Hm, almost like amarok has his work cut out for him..

[stark knoll]

But ai is always being worked on, as visible in amarok's streams

It's heavily a WIP

[vernal summit]

You cannot take existing spawn points, duplicate them and just spread them out across the map?

[stark knoll]

Depends on how it's programmed

And no, that doesn't even sound like a "30 second fix"

[proud anchor]

They are... And for some reason, even though it works 100% properly in the devroom, it doesn't function properly on the server.

[vernal summit]

Fixing AI is like replacing a car tire, you only dont know how to do it if youve never heard of a car.

[stark knoll]

You're more than welcome to submit your resume to [e-mail]

[proud anchor]

Actually.

If fixing AI were as easy as replacing a tire... Star Citizen would be a fully-featured game.

[vernal summit]

I laughed, but idiocy only gets you so far

[stark knoll]

What?

I'm being genuine

[proud anchor]

Cringe...

[stark knoll]

You seem to be experienced in coding ai to function on a multiplayer server-based game with specifications to limit spawns based on biomes and/or region

The dev team is hiring, and has been for a while

[proud anchor]

Or... They're blowing smoke...

[vernal summit]

You dont need to re-code the ai to make them spawn more lol.... you just need to change the settings and add a couple extra spawn points by duplicating the existing ones and moving them to different area. When you change your graphics from Medium to High, you dont need to re-code the entire grpahics display do you? Or if you do, please tell me how you did it so I can change mine.

[stark knoll]

I'm not sure how that relates to what I'm saying

[proud anchor]

I'm gonna stop ya right there, chief...
They're not respawning at all not just too seldom.
Not knowing the issue is your first problem.

[hasty coyote]

Then I can just say “carno now loses too hard to utah, so it gets a buff, which means both teno and pachy need a buff” or I can go “then teno needs a buff because it suffers against utah, which means carno gets buffed, which means pachy gets buffed” all of these animals are interconnected

[vernal summit]

You dont re-code the game to change your render from Medium to High so that your game looks better. You dont re-code an AI or script when you change their spawn rate from 0% to 100% so that the AI spawn on the map. Logic isnt hard to understand...

[grave veldt]

imagine balancing 56 playables

[stark knoll]

I'm aware of that, I'm unaware of how that relates to what I said to you

[vernal summit]

Its not rocket science to change an .ini file?

[slim dragon]

Yes that's definitely how code works
[/Aispawnrate=100]
Every problem solved

We can go even further with that
[/When {Bug} Happens]

[/Fixit]

[stark knoll]

I guess I won't get an explanation, then

[proud anchor]

Not knowing what you're talking about is the main issue, here, man... It's a little more involved than that, or it'd be fixed already.

[hasty coyote]

Oh it’s going to be rough. Luckily we seem to be getting them 1 at a time so it’s easier to see the impact and adjust.

[grave veldt]

yes the playables coming in slowly is much better as they can be interconnected much better

by the end it should be way easier to balance rather then overloading them all in

[vernal summit]

Yes, im the dumb one for asking for a fix on the AI and pointing out how its not hard.

[proud anchor]

Omg, is that how CDPR fixed CP2077?

[proud anchor]

Asking for a fix, not dumb.
Explaining that you understand the problem when you don't...

[vernal summit]

Theres alot of fixes needing to be worked on and whichever they fix is fine, but having an issue thats been spanning longer than 12 months isnt a good record

[proud anchor]

Right, it's a tough battle, trying to enjoy a game in its alpha stages...

[eternal musk]

I agree with this.

The ai is fine it just needs the spawning rate to be upped a tad bit.

[proud anchor]

Spawning isn't working at all, if I'm to understand. If it is, it's doing so at a percent of what it's meant to. The issue is, is that it can't be balanced until amarok figures out what is different compared to what he's experiencing in the devroom.

[vernal summit]

The most AI youll see together at any given time in the game

3 fish, maybe 4 if youre lucky

[proud anchor]

That's spawning in off a fresh server restart, don't you lie to us!

[vernal summit]

they give 4-6% food per fish so thats 12-18% in total after you eat all 3

[eternal musk]

Don’t forget the flying fish. At times but ya I experience that issue too. Well even in a player battered server the fish should spawn in over time.

[vernal summit]

I just joined the game and saw those fish

[proud anchor]

Consider yourself lucky. Those of us on land don't even have that much.

[vernal summit]

The fish on the left side I circled was flying out of the water as I took the screenshot. I had to circle all the fish or you wouldnt have seen that one lol

Im also at like 10% food as you can tell by the screenshot, and most players stay at that hunger level most of the time they are alive as a dino.

[eternal musk]

Caught them in action. But ya on we gotta have some sort of like exponential spawn rate. Something that after a certain amount of ai it doesn’t spawn but as soon as like 10 or so ai are dead we spawn in more. Ya the hunger also needs to be fixed for fresh spawn

Logically we should also be seeing herds of deer on land grazing and running around.

[vernal summit]

Fresh spawn hunger is like 15% which in the non beta version it spawns at full hunger, another thing they messed up when they pushed this far without testing

[vernal summit]

But the Devs want more playable dinos than a survival game that is realistic

[stark knoll]

The 20% hunger on spawn was a result of testing and feedback

[stark knoll]

The opposite is happening, actually, new playables are a secondary priority to mechanics

[vernal summit]

Who ever wanting the players to spawn in starving are the reason why theres hunger across the globe...

[eternal musk]

Ye. I mean do we even got a herd mechanic for ai. I feel that would also balance out spawns especially for the land dwellers.

[silent isle]

U think the hunger issue is cuz there r hungry juvies????????

Besides the ai not respawning ?

Or whatever the damn issue with them is

I think the hunger issue is really only with carnos, they go hungry so fassssttt

[vernal summit]

So increase AI spawns and add more player interactions

[silent isle]

But I do think boars should get their weight reverted, they dont give enough food

[frail bobcat]

How can you increase player interactions? Give me examples

[vernal summit]

Place players closer together?

Make it so you see players more often

[frail bobcat]

How can you force that without making the map smaller?

[eternal musk]

Smaller map. means more player to player interaction or up the server player cap to 150. Or increase the AI spawn rate.

[silent isle]

Or all the above

[stark knoll]

A smaller map is still planned, but we're not sure how much work has been done on it or if it's being worked on currently

[frail bobcat]

The server stability with a 150 will be amazing

[silent isle]

Oh that’s fantastic to know, fuck yes!

[proud anchor]

They need to work on server stability... Please hire network eggheads

[frail bobcat]

What does that show me?

[vernal summit]

The only things you come across are things you cant kill lol

[silent isle]

Only the stego

[vernal summit]

Stegos are OP

[frail bobcat]

That sounds like a you problem

[vernal summit]

They can kill Deino adults

[somber sphinx]

Two deinos can kill a stego

[vernal summit]

Thats a game mechanic issue, not my issue lol

[frail bobcat]

They should be able to

Because if not, then land croc

[eternal musk]

I was factoring if they had server stability haha.

[grave veldt]

thats not an issue at all quite frankly

big spikey tail hurts not sure what else to say lol

[vernal summit]

Me and this random Deino Im with are trying to kill this stego and all the stego has done is gotten us both down to half HP and the stego is untoched

Stego is too powerful, it has mega reach anyway

[somber sphinx]

If you guys ambushed it and lunged it so that it got stunned then the other person could get free hits in, if you guys want to walk to a stego and kill it then it’s best to be 3

[marble vector]

With AI not as plentiful on land as it is in water (fish for deino), does any one else thing that allow nutrients a longer deterioration time for carno would be welcome?

I’ve noticed I run out nutrients faster as a carno because A) carno canni is a thing, B) utahs hunting carno is very common so having reduced smell impacts survival big time, C less stamina to get to food.

[marble vector]

Maybe stego swing speed being reduced could be a light nurf

[hexed sorrel]

19? does pachy do less than 100 damage?

[hasty coyote]

No, it deals exactly 100. The 18th leaves the carno at 50 hp

[vernal summit]

Something else to think about

Well I died again, probably wont play the game for awhile

kinda pointless tbh

[hasty coyote]

However, iirc, body fracture lowers hp now, but I’m not sure by how much. I’ll go check the patch notes real quick

Yeah there’s this, so I’m wrong on that. I believe this means it’s easier to break body now

So still, it takes 19 hits on average.

[vernal summit]

shit, i died in less

plus the game forced me to stop sprinting in the water, while the others could do it

so many issues, so little care

[hexed sorrel]

how is that? carno has 1800 hp

and if it deals exactly 100 it needs 5 whole shots to kill a utah?

[hasty coyote]

Thought it had 1850? Either way, the carno can heal 1 hp and take 19 hits.

[hexed sorrel]

true

but headshots count too

[hasty coyote]

And yes, that is why I have been advocating for damage on another attack

[hasty coyote]

Legs do too, that’s why I just said 19 on average

[hexed sorrel]

yeah 5 shots to kill a utah is definitely bad

what was it pre update?

[hasty coyote]

Especially when utah can basically 2-3 shot pachy with pounces and bleed. Or 8 bites.

[hasty coyote]

I think around 180, could be wrong on that tho, don’t remember it exactly

[hexed sorrel]

I think 150 is good for damage

[hasty coyote]

Personally, I’d rather them keep ram low damage and used for fractures, then give damage to head slam or alt attacks. That way it has the option to deal damage to smalls, or break them, while struggling to kill larger targets

The whole point of the damage nerf was to hinder pachy’s ability to kill larger targets. However, that nerf plus the utah buffs made it too weak against it, so it needs a way to fend off utah.

I’d rather them have 2 separate abilities: ram for fracture, and alt/head slam for damage. That way you can’t kill and break at the same time, you have to chose one or the other. Similar to how they made teno less “spam tail slam to win” and actually use its whole kit.

[hexed sorrel]

i feel like for teno tailslam needs to be more useful

also... why do people think tailshots should KILL the dino?

it has 0 organs

it should only do damage and bleed

[hasty coyote]

Because it’s annoying to be biting something, but it doesn’t die purely because you’re hitting the tail. Chasing a juvie or anything fast and small becomes 2x as difficult because your hits mostly are going to be on the tail. I think the reduced damage is a good compromise personally. The new even more reduced damage on the tail is extremely useful. I have had carno bites do next to nothing to my pachy.

[hexed sorrel]

yeah but then your still doing damage+bleed on the thing if it continues running it WILL die

[hasty coyote]

Depends on the dino you are. Some things like carno don’t deal much bleed, so if something outruns it because the carno literally can not kill it with raw damage, then the bleed doesn’t matter because the prey is just gone.

[hexed sorrel]

carno is MEANT to kill with raw damage, if it cant, then you're not meant to be hunting it.

the whole point of carno is ambushing things as fast as possible, go in and out. the hunt shouldn't last more than a minute

you are meant to ambush the thing not chase it

[hasty coyote]

Yes, but that would mean it can’t kill its preferred prey since it’s going to land tail bites a lot

[hexed sorrel]

not really tbh

you can predict where they are gone since you are t he fastest thing in the game besides ptera

also charge is a thing which makes them HAVE to turn anyway

anyway carno isnt meant to be good at chasing things anyway

its meant to ambush things and end the fight quickly

[hasty coyote]

Also, another issue it causes is matchups like stego v utah. Most the time stego is going to hit the tail of utah, so utahs would be able to theoretically tank as many hits as they want.

[obtuse bison]

ur just bad, stegos are easy to kill.

Just go for the head, dont be cocky and if it looks hurt it isnt dont push it and be patient.

and do alt bites not normal ones.

[vernal summit]

eh im not wasting anymore time in it right now

To die in 10 hits from the same dino is just cringe so its whatever

[obtuse bison]

10 hits is alot

just dont be cocky and be patient thats all :p

[vernal summit]

Well its said to be 19 hits to kill so 10 isnt alot by the game settings

plus I died in a bullshit way so I just give up trying to play

[obtuse bison]

5 head shots to kill a fully grown stego

just bait it and waste its stam.

[vernal summit]

Cant kill a stego when it only puts its tail in the water, plus they can just do 5 hits in 2 seconds anyway

[obtuse bison]

go to the sides. And then when it isnt looking go and bite its head, then stay infront of it and u can block it from running away.

dont ever go on land.

[vernal summit]

Its head is on land...

[mystic cedar]

Then dont sit there and try to fight it when all you can reach is its tail

[obtuse bison]

I ment land land, like no where near the water.

[vernal summit]

When you leave the water for any reason, you get serious debuffs, -80% movement and stamina, bad turning, and youre exposed to every danger

[obtuse bison]

Bit stegos panic when u get head bites.

And it cant turn when ur infront of it.

[vernal summit]

So they just spam attack and drain you to half health in 1 second

because they have their attack speed busted

5 swings in like 2 seconds isnt good

[obtuse bison]

dont let it get shots on ur head.

[vernal summit]

Leaving the water and trying to get around it only lets it hit your head lol

I tried hunting one with 2 other Deinos

[obtuse bison]

And if feel like ur low dont tank it, go back into water.

[vernal summit]

0 luck

[obtuse bison]

If u want i can help u grow ur deino and help u kill a stego if u want.

[vernal summit]

The bleed isnt all that bad honestly just make sure you dont get too many bleeds at once and youre good. But the amount of damage you take compared to other dinos is just horrendous

3 hits from a stego and youre at 50% HP

[mystic cedar]

I feel like deino players have the most trouble with stego cuz they use to just face tanking or drowning everything n they cant do that with stego

[flint jacinth]

They should make deino do crazy damage if it gets a headshot on a stego

[hasty coyote]

Deino also isn’t well equipped to deal with stegos, it’s likely the weakest in apex v apex, but it still bodies like 80% of the roster

[opaque beacon]

what we arguing about?

[obtuse bison]

just be patient thats how u kill most things, Utahs have to wait ages to take down a stego, but its worth it, deinos have it easy compared to other dinos, carnos get 1 shotted and so do utahs but deinos dont, so its not the stego thats op, its the player who is just really good at combat or the deino.

[mystic cedar]

Exactlyyy

[flint jacinth]

No idea I just popped in

[vernal summit]

I havent even gotten to kill any actual dinos because no dinos hang out at rivers lol. Nor are there enough players to see any. I dont tank anything either, I usually try to land critical hits. But its impossible when all the dinos just camp hills and youre forced to go to them. Not to mention the Deino has serious debuffs on land, so everyone knows Deinos left alone in rivers just starve to death.

[hasty coyote]

It does, stego has an even larger headshot multiplier (2x when everything else has 1.5x)

[mystic cedar]

Maybe they arent going to the river because your going to them on land? So now they know the water isnt safe

[opaque beacon]

Carnos dont get one shot lol, and plus waiting 45 mins just to kill a stego thats hiding its head in a rock is not reasonable

[flint jacinth]

Make it 3x

[vernal summit]

You wouldnt need to go them if they actually didnt camp?

[hasty coyote]

Headshot does already

[opaque beacon]

oh your talking headshot

[hasty coyote]

Why?

[opaque beacon]

stegos head is tiny asf

[obtuse bison]

bait it and attack when the cooldown is in place(if a stego headshots a carno it instantly dies)

[flint jacinth]

Literally just because I wanna see how that would change the gameplay

[vernal summit]

Players are stupid and use exploits but the ones that suffer from these exploits are called bad LOL. We are hated for speaking on how broken a game is.

[mystic cedar]

You wait for them to get thirsty... your an ambush predator

[opaque beacon]

Foodwise I would die by the time this stego dies

[vernal summit]

I cant ambush if im starving to death LOL

[hasty coyote]

Balance>realism

[obtuse bison]

lol, i would die by thirst first.

[vernal summit]

Why do you blame regular players for the problems the game developers have made?

[mystic cedar]

Lmfao well than eat fish, it's easy to get food as a deino

Deino is one of the easiest to get food on

[opaque beacon]

So to kill a stego I have to think about your water percentage LMAO

[vernal summit]

the 3 fish in a river give 4% food each, which is 12% food in total then you never see anymore AI until the next server restart or a very lucky but rare spawn occurs

[mystic cedar]

I always find enough fish to fill me up when I play, and extra to use as bait

[vernal summit]

These guys play as Carnos or Raptors but they can tell us how to play our dinos lol

[flint jacinth]

There are places with a lot of fish, you just gotta know them

[vernal summit]

its cringe really

[hasty coyote]

For our current roster, yeah. Those fights are LONG.

[vernal summit]

We are the problem, not the game mechanics lol

[obtuse bison]

You try and be a dev LOL i develop for multiple games and its really hard, its not just a few codes and its a game, You have to model and script, you have to texture the models, you have to manage topology so the game doesnt lag. Its a very hard process and that devs should get so much more credit, instead of being criticised from little mistakes?

[opaque beacon]

Here we go again with balance>realisim Lol

[opaque beacon]

Maybe you should make it more balanced then LMAO

[hasty coyote]

We are giving tips that we know from both playing deino and talking with deino players.

[vernal summit]

I dont think its bad to have some bugs, bugs occur in every game, but having bugs that last over 12 months and have been ignored for those said 12+ months isnt a good record.

[opaque beacon]

Noone wants to fight a 45 min fight just to have a 50/50 chance you can kill the damn thing, that dosent sound like gameplay to me

[vernal summit]

Im giving you feedback as a Deino player

[obtuse bison]

longer fight = more memorable.

[flint jacinth]

If the game was realistic, these fights would be a lot different

[mystic cedar]

Than accept the tips that you get from others and you can improve and maybe not have the same issues in the future?

[vernal summit]

Yes, Deinos could grab Stegos by the tail and drag them into the river to drown them, it would be alot different then some camping stego that 5 hits you to death with the tiniest head and no drowning ability.

[opaque beacon]

Are yall trying to say deino v steg is fair?

[vernal summit]

They are calling us bad

[golden coral]

True, they would. If the game was realistic, only a few of the roster would be able to survive at all.. :p

[mystic cedar]

I think deino v steg shouldnt have to be fair tbhhh

[obtuse bison]

strgo should win, they can bleed u to death.

[golden coral]

Just going to point out, when it was talked about a tug of war, it was said stego would most likely pull deino up on land, not the other way around.

[opaque beacon]

Is Stego on deinos diet?

[flint jacinth]

And a large pack of utahs could potentially run house on servers

Key word potentially

[golden coral]

Nah, our utah would not survive if things were more realistic. It also wouldn't have the pounce and stuff for that matter.

[flint jacinth]

True

[golden coral]

If you wanted actual realism and critters properly balanced according to that, most would not have the abilities they do, some would have more than they do, and a select few would be so "OP" compared to the rest that they would drive everything else to extinction.

[vernal summit]

I think the games mechanics need to be tweaked. If the game is advertised on steam as a "Realistic Survival Horror Game" then it should have the ability for the Deino to grab any dino by the tail, neck, head, or legs and drag them into the water, as Deinos in real life were able to do, and as modern Alligators and Crocodiles do today. If the game was about anything other than money it would have alot fixed and improved.

[hasty coyote]

Personally, I think the fights should be long. Utahs are likely to have heavy casualties and stego’s have a long grow time. It would make no sense to spend 5 hours growing a dino, just to a pack of 5 raptors in a minute.

The only way we could make them shorter would be by decreasing stego’s hp, which then means a lot of rebalancing. Or by increasing damage on the smaller dinos, which would also take a lot of rebalancing.

[opaque beacon]

Than dont put stego on Utahs diet if you cant kill it tf

[golden coral]

I don't think that's neccesarily the realism they mean. If it was, our utah would not pounce, carno would not charge, and so on.

[mystic cedar]

So you want deino to just be able to drown everything? That's just not a good idea g

[golden coral]

You'd have to redo a whole lot if you want realism according to the animals irl abilities

[vernal summit]

The Raptors and Carnos have an ability to them, the Deino needs one

[opaque beacon]

im not saying a minute, im saying not 45 mins +

[mystic cedar]

Deino lunge is the ability bro

[vernal summit]

Oh but the Stego camping its head in the rocks and swinging 5 times in 2 seconds killing Deinos is fair and realistic??

[vernal summit]

Humans can jump, your point is?

[golden coral]

I think the issue here is that any stego up to 80% is perfectly killable. So you can hunt them, just not the fully grown ones. Same as I would imagine sauropods would play. Should things like allo, or even utahs, not have a camara on diet just because an adult is impossible?

[golden coral]

Eh.. you have one, lunge/grab...

[vernal summit]

I cannot grab any dino

[opaque beacon]

Bro, Stego should be scared of deino, idc wtf yall say, Stego shouldnt be the angel protector while 4 other tenos are drinking water or some shit

[vernal summit]

If I was able to grab any dino and drag it around, I would be able to kill things

[flint jacinth]

The only thing a deino can’t grab is a full stego

Or another full deino

[golden coral]

You press and hold RMB, lunge and then grab on, and then you pull them into the water and drown them.

[mystic cedar]

Your lunge can one shot every dinosaur except one, that's very different from a jump. Bro you just want deino to be so op that nothing can compete with it because you keep getting killed by stegos. Deino is already super strong as it is and you want to overbuff it and make it even stronger

[golden coral]

Oh I agree, stegos should not care about the tenos. But I disagree that stego should be afraid of deino, it's too big for deino to hunt. And any such "protection" issue would happen with other playables too, like shant or trike. Imagine that fun, when a fully grown shant just.. stomps every deino it sees because it's that big and powerful and can wade out further than stego at that most likely.

[vernal summit]

I think Stegos should be powerful in their own right, like they should be tanky and do more damage than other Herbs, but the way its set now is just unfair and quite stupid. Its like you chasing me on horseback and I just run you over with my train, unfair and wildly unrealistic...

[opaque beacon]

Bro just said stego is too big for deino to hunt

[hollow canyon]

Pretty much the definition of Deino design and the reason why it's just bad for the game btw.

[hollow canyon]

There's no way a Stego is saving a Tenonto that's drinking if a Deino decides to kill that Teno and grabs it.

[hasty coyote]

A: they can, it’s just difficult
B: juvies exist
C:they can hunt other things for that diet too
D: limited roster and temporary diet system.

[golden coral]

@vernal summitYou have a lunge. You click and hold RMB, this allows you to lunge from the water (though you can do so on land, with much shorter reach), and grab on to a critter that is half or less of your weight. If you have full stam, and deep water in the river next to you, whatever you get a hold of is pretty muh doomed, with no way to fight back.

[vernal summit]

Its not bad, I love the idea of ambush and river dinos, the game mechanics are bad. You shouldnt have to live off fish lol, nor should you be killed in 10 hits. Nor should stegos 5 hit you in 3 seconds while your attacks take 5 seconds per bite LOl, its unfair like I said and everyone here blames me for the problems lol, im not the game devs, I didnt make the busted ass rules

[golden coral]

The issue with lack of prey items, well.. the deino is a rather strange playable. The best counter is to not drink where a deino can grab you in the first place, because there's no other way to fight back.

[hasty coyote]

4tons and under is what they should generally hunt, anything bigger is difficult

[opaque beacon]

are u serious

[hollow canyon]

cool, it's not bad, it's just that you win against it by staying the hell away from it and letting it starve, not a bad design at all

[vernal summit]

So just camp on a mountain and watch us starve? or?

[golden coral]

You should be hunting the utahs, pachies, carnos, tenos, and smaller stegos..

[flint jacinth]

Maybe you should stop hunting adult stegos?

[hollow canyon]

Is this a rhetorical question?

[opaque beacon]

bro why tf is stego in the game lmao

[vernal summit]

If those were on the map, I see 1 carno every few hours but even then its faster and just runs off.

[hollow canyon]

cause it was meant to be AI but the artificial intelligence wasn't good enough for it so the devs ended up making it a playable

[mystic cedar]

People like this dude who want to overbuff their main and make it op make no sense to me, like they dont even realize how it sounds

[vernal summit]

If people here could read and understand basic english we would be on better terms

[opaque beacon]

literarly all the stego has to do i stand in front of the tenos as they drink and the deino cant get em

[hasty coyote]

Good question lol

The only reason was that it was ready to be pushed out.

[golden coral]

Yes I know. Like I said, it's an issue with how deino works. I can't really say much more there. The issue is that you have no good way to fight a grab, so no one wants to risk it, because if you do get grabbed, you just die unless the deino mess up.

[hollow canyon]

I mean... you just have to choose a different angle of attack in that case, Stego isn't going to block 4 Tenontos from you.

[opaque beacon]

Just remove stego if it takes 45 mins to kill an adult lmao

[golden coral]

Because not ready AI I think. If you haven't noticed, it's not a very well designed playable in the first place, power or not.

[hollow canyon]

I've also literally never ever saw a Stego stand in front of Tenontos while they were drinking like that

[vernal summit]

The only way a deino grabs you is if youre dead, it picks up dead bodies and carries them lol. Your "grab attack" isnt valid for fighting dinos

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't take 45 minutes to kill one though?

[opaque beacon]

idk why they added an apex in the first place if it cant be killed by the other apex lmao

[hasty coyote]

Then remove deino too because nothing else can kill it

[flint jacinth]

It’s definitely happened

[opaque beacon]

Your trolling

[golden coral]

To be fair, that does happen. Stegos do tend to protect their entire herd. We need some more herbi aggro :p

[hollow canyon]

No, last time I was in a Utah pack it took 20 minutes to kill an adult Stego

[vernal summit]

I got killed by other Deinos, I was killed by many things as a Deino lol, Deinos are pretty weak compared to Stegos or Carnos

[hollow canyon]

we've lost 3 Utahs during the process

[golden coral]

Because again, no working AI, and that the other apex is designed to not hunt other apexes, but smaller stuff. Due to a rather unfun mechanic that your best counter to is to just not drink at any deep water at all.

[mystic cedar]

Deinos are way stronger than carno lmfao idk what your on ajout

[opaque beacon]

LOL, idk what you be fighting, all they do is grab a rock and fight is over lol

[hollow canyon]

there's no excuse for getting killed as a Deino by anything other than another Deino

[hollow canyon]

It definitely did but I haven't seen that happen very often

or ever for that matter

[hasty coyote]

Compared to stego, sure. But carnos get bullied by deinos.

Plus, if the only thing that can kill a deino is another deino, then that’s a problem.

[flint jacinth]

Lucky you

[hollow canyon]

The bigger issue for Deino is that any person that actually knows how to play the game will not drink in any spot where you can actually get ambushed by the riverworm

[vernal summit]

I was attacked by 2 Deinos and died in 10 hits but they survived my attacks lol, Deinos are weaker compared to other dinos and sometimes the game is just shit and kills you, I died underwater because the game forced me to stop sprinting underwater and the attacking Deino sprinted and killed me. Broken game mechanics arent my fault, im not bad for a poorly written game code lol.

[opaque beacon]

Bro I literarly tried herbi the other day and we just had no problem drinking cuz theres always a stego gaurding the water XD

[vernal summit]

They basically force you to play Herb because of how over powered they are. 2 stegos can take on any carni and all the carnis are pathetically weak against most Herbs...

[hasty coyote]

I don’t fully understand what you’re saying there: but I’m assuming you got cannid: refer to my previous message

[mystic cedar]

Bro your literally just making shit up cuz you died, deino is super strong and if you still die with it than that's not a fault on behalf of the dinosaurs stats, it's an issue with what your doing, if you got attacked by 2 other deinos and fought instead of running- that's why you died. Its cause and effect

[flint jacinth]

The key to being a successful deino is literally playing something else to know where they normally drink or where they usually are, then when you play deino you lay in the unsuspecting rivers that usually seem safe

[hollow canyon]

Utahs are just fine, the rest is arguably quite weak in comparison to the corresponding herbivores

[opaque beacon]

You should see these defense positions theres herbi players be making 😂😂😂😂

[flint jacinth]

Bro facts, they be having military formations bruh

[mystic cedar]

Lmfaooo that shit be funny as hell

[vernal summit]

I attacked them like 10 times and they lived, but as I was being attacked I swam away, I literally was full sprint underwater and the game then forced me to stop sprinting and I died to them. Its not my fault I died lol, the game fucking forced me to a slow crawl speed...

[golden coral]

Eh, if the only thing that can kill a stego is another stego, I think that's fine. It's a chance to handle numbers and limitations without the whole "must have a predator" or something. It's just a matter of working with that then and figuring out how to control stegos on their own, same as with deinos really.

[hollow canyon]

I do think Deino should do better vs Stego than it does right now tbh

[opaque beacon]

WTF DO YOU CALL THIS

[mystic cedar]

Can you explain to me how deino is weaker than anything besides stego?

[hollow canyon]

The fight should be in favour of Stego but not quite to the extent it is right now

[flint jacinth]

The perfect defense

[vernal summit]

I spent from 10pm last night until 3am this morning to growing my Deino to 100% and then like 2 or 3 hours ago I died. I give up spending hours of my life to a broken game

[golden coral]

Surprisingly smart stegos? :p

[opaque beacon]

Heads or Tails fits that formation better XDDD

[golden coral]

Another potentially "easy" solution really.

[hollow canyon]

friendly fire about to happen I think

[hasty coyote]

The same thing I would call any other species grouping up like that: death.

[vernal summit]

They just die easily, as I have said

[flint jacinth]

Bro I was there when that fight went down, friendly fire was rare, we couldn’t get close

[vernal summit]

Maybe at some time in the futre ill try again but the devs need to fix this game alot before its truly sellable to the public

[opaque beacon]

They werent smart lol, if they were they would of went into a forest and hug a tree or a rock lol

[golden coral]

Deinos are by no means weak. They have 8K health... :p

[flint jacinth]

We only won because the pachy moved when the stego swung

[golden coral]

And bleed resistance at that

[golden coral]

If they could get there without dying that is :p

[mystic cedar]

You would have a much harder time on another dino than bro... cuz from my experience, deino Is almost unkillable. None of my deino characters have ever died, I've had to kill them myself and even that was difficult to do

[vernal summit]

The less bleed is kinda nice tbh, my favorite thing about them

[opaque beacon]

they could, literarly rocks next to them

[golden coral]

Maybe Im just not seeing the rocks there then :p

[opaque beacon]

I almost bled out as a Utah from one carno bite lmao

[vernal summit]

Atleas with any other dino I dont get a -80% debuff on land lmaoooooo.

[golden coral]

It is, though I wish deinos had to bask instead!

[hasty coyote]

I prob could have worded that better: it’s a specific issue with deino. Anything can just walk away from stego. However, everything must eventually come near deino territory. That’s why deino needs something that can stop it, otherwise it just kills literally everything, and has to be able to kill them too.

[golden coral]

What do you mean with 80% debuff?..

[mystic cedar]

Duh your a water dino, have you seen ptero on land? It's worse than deino AND its stats are nowhere near conparable

[hollow canyon]

he means that Deino is slow and has very little stamina on land

[vernal summit]

Basking = faster stamina regain/HP regain would be a good ability too

[hollow canyon]

Tbh I'd buff up its runtime and speed on land

[flint jacinth]

To adults?

[mystic cedar]

If you pick a water dino dont expect to be fast on land

[hollow canyon]

yea and probably decrease the cost of the alt bite

[vernal summit]

So then make all land dinos not able to go in water..... if you want Deinos to stay in water, dont have any land dinos touch water. See how much sense that makes then

[golden coral]

Ah, fair. I still think this would be an opportunity to work on limiting numbers by themselves. But then I dislike stegos coming in herds, I can not agree that it is reasonable at all, so I'd like to see changes to limit stegos into pairs and spread them out properly. Like one pair on either side of center perhaps, + a few juvies. Or something like that.

[hollow canyon]

All those things were nerfed and I think they were nerfed too hard

[mystic cedar]

All land animals are debuffed in the water the same way that crocs are debuffed on land. Your making no sense rn

[flint jacinth]

I mean… I guess

[opaque beacon]

tree right there lol

[golden coral]

I was thinking for a nutrient otherwise, but yes. Resting already helps with stam, this would be more so chilling on land for a longer period I guess. Breaks between the hunts and all that.

[hollow canyon]

In my honest opinion I'd just go with the original Deinosuchus that the devs wanted to introduce into the game before the screeching of the community got them to replace it with Deinosuchus hatcheri

[vernal summit]

Youre literally saying that Deinos should not ever touch land lol

[hollow canyon]

It would make far more sense all around if we had D.rugosus in the game

[golden coral]

Okay, so there is a tree there at least! :D

[hollow canyon]

based on how the croc behaves it's clear it was meant to be rugosus and not hatcheri

[hasty coyote]

Yeah, I would really like stegos to be in 3s at most. Make it so they can’t sustain their diet if there’s too many of them. That way they fight over the diet food or get weak.

[mystic cedar]

No I'm not! Lmfao are you dull? I'm saying that you shouldnt expect to be great on land, as a WATER dinosaur bro. Your putting words in my mouth cuz you realize that your making no sense

[vernal summit]

I meant that Deinos get an extra buff for stam and HP when basking, they are cold blooded and need more sunlight than alot of other dinos.

[opaque beacon]

So whats your point 💀💀

[vernal summit]

Im using your words lol

[mystic cedar]

Go quote me than where I said "water dinosaurs should not be able to go on land"

[hollow canyon]

Basically - Slydelic is saying that just as Carno is bad in the water you cannot expect Deino to be good on land

[opaque beacon]

They are semi aquatic but I see what u mean

[hollow canyon]

I agree with that but I think it should still be better than it is right now

[golden coral]

Not much, you just said they should be smart and go to rocks and trees, and I just meant that those are not always available when you need them (part of choosing when to attack something after all) and thus, maybe using that formation was the best option.

Deino could be better on land if it also had a reason to be on land, such as basking. Since that'd make them vunerable in other ways.

[vernal summit]

Plus land dinos crossing rivers and lakes move almost as fast as they do on land, stegos crossing rivers take like 3 seconds to cross a wide river, Deinos take like an hour to reach a river from a small hill....

[mystic cedar]

Yeh tru tru

[flint jacinth]

It’s an alligator, how effective do you guys think a giant alligator should be on land?

[hollow canyon]

they really, really don't...

[opaque beacon]

Not available.. right.

[hollow canyon]

if anything it's just that rivers are rather narrow?

[vernal summit]

I witnessed it lol, dont call me a liar when I see it live, in the game

[mystic cedar]

What game are you playing? I dont think we playin the same game g

[vernal summit]

The Isle Evrima

[hollow canyon]

I mean I know how fast the likes of Pachy, Carno and Stego are in the water and they are slow like snails

[golden coral]

Not always no. Or maybe I just tend to roam in more open plains on my stego, since we're supposed to be a plains animal and all that xD

[hollow canyon]

it's just that well... rivers are very narrow

so you can cross one rather quickly even as a rather slow animal

[opaque beacon]

not much xd

[flint jacinth]

Some are pretty shallow too

[vernal summit]

Eh if yall arent bringing any use here, ill just go back to youtube.

[mystic cedar]

I sit there with my butcheeks clenched for like 10 seconds sometimes while I swim across rivers, a lot of dinosaurs are super slow in water

[hollow canyon]

more effective than it is now tbh, I'd fictionalise it and let it be faster, hell it's already fictionalised because an alligatoroid of that size wouldn't even move as fast as Deino does right now but it's a w/e.

[hasty coyote]

I know pathways to cross rivers without ever swimming, but it’s a pretty specific route.
Mainly learned it so I can keep the blood on my pachy’s skull, it looks nice.

[hollow canyon]

for what it's worth - Stego wouldn't be moving as fast it does now either

so I don't see a problem with Deino being faster

I would honestly expect the two to be likely about as fast on land in reality, Deino might be somewhat slower

a Saltwater crocodile is around the speed of an irl Stegosaurus on land

both move at a tremendous speed of... some 9km/h

that's also the estimated speed of Megalania btw

but it's a game so we can fictionalise things a bit

make Deino faster, give it a bit more stamina

it would open new ways of playing this animal

[vernal summit]

Deinos are slower on land yes, but when you lose all your stam in 3 seconds of a sprint and only get 10 feet on the shore, thats kinda busted/

[hollow canyon]

and make it just all around more interesting

[hollow canyon]

I honestly agree - as I said I'd increase its runtime and make it faster

[mystic cedar]

If deino gets buffed on land than ptero DEF deserves one

[hollow canyon]

likely also decrease its alt bite cost

[vernal summit]

It should have a little more stam and speed on land, but not liek raptor fast lol

[hollow canyon]

If you ask me - I'd also decrease its size and health/weight pool

[flint jacinth]

That’s kinda realistic, real crocs can’t run that far. They only get short bursts of speed before they are tired. If they are big and heavy that is

[hollow canyon]

I'd just go with the Deinosuchus we were supposed to get

[tall bronze]

Did I sense smaller Deino discussion

[vernal summit]

plusthey need to make them more quiet and less noticeable in eater, having dinos stick their head in the water and hearing you swim up to them so they run away is just no fun and quite annoying, you cant blame me for that mechanic either.... dont even try it,

[hollow canyon]

well depends on the species

[flint jacinth]

Yeah

[hasty coyote]

I just want lakes, ones without 100% safety areas.

At most a lake could have an area that has water deep enough for deino to submerge and hide in, but still shallow enough so moving disturbs the water.

[hexed sorrel]

utahs are becoming a problem

I just ran to a damn near 20 pack nearly all adults

[hollow canyon]

only now?

[hexed sorrel]

wiped out my 3 pachy pack

[hollow canyon]

This goddamn animal has been a problem-child since the launch of Evrima

[hexed sorrel]

in like 20 seconds LMAO

[vernal summit]

There is alot that is fine with Deino as is, but if youre going to buff all other dinos except Deino, then I want buffs to them

[hasty coyote]

As I called before this update came out:
Utah is carno 2.0: now with skill

[hexed sorrel]

nah the funny thing is

[hollow canyon]

Always broken

[hexed sorrel]

the yall just bunched up and spam bit all my pack mates and me

and they won with like 2 deaths

fps being nonexistant didnt help

[hollow canyon]

I'd be careful with calling it "with skill" it's really not that hard to play with how forgiving the pounce is

[flint jacinth]

Because that’s all it takes to bleed you out now

[hasty coyote]

8 hits to kill a pachy

[hollow canyon]

also an absurdly easy growth

[hexed sorrel]

didnt bleed out, they killed us via damage

[flint jacinth]

They did get a damage buff

[mystic cedar]

I doubt they gonna buff deino, especially with how strong it is, maybe small tweaks here and there

[hexed sorrel]

I swear I alt bit til I had 0 stamina and I didnt miss a single one

[vernal summit]

then take away the other buffs

[hasty coyote]

Yeah, I was a bit off on that. But hey, at least they can get 1-shot by other dinos now, so they take slightly more skill.

[vernal summit]

Make stego attack slower and not camp with its tail in the water, or give the Deino a grab ability to drown dinos.

[mystic cedar]

They're buffing other dinos so that they can be in a good spot too, deimos already in a good spot while some dinos arent

[hexed sorrel]

when you're a pack that big I feel liek skill is just thrown out of the window

[hasty coyote]

65N now, even more than pachy alt attack now.

[hollow canyon]

well... they can technically get oneshot by the same animals that can oneshot a Carno too so I wouldn't be going too crazy with that skill thing, especially that Utah has one of the easiest growths in the game

[vernal summit]

Starving the the Deinos spot

[mystic cedar]

Deino does have a grab to drown dinos

[hollow canyon]

literally just munch on any body and you get to full adult

[hexed sorrel]

no way!? pachy alt attack is less than 65? I always thought it was 80

[vernal summit]

they dont lol

[hasty coyote]

60

[mystic cedar]

...

[vernal summit]

Deinos cant drown animals

[hexed sorrel]

thats actually a problem'

[vernal summit]

they only bite and lunge lol

[mystic cedar]

Deinos literally can

The lunge is a grab... that can drown them

[hollow canyon]

are you sure you're using the lunge correctly?

[mystic cedar]

This dude isnt even using deino right

[hasty coyote]

Again, that’s why I have been advocating for pachy damage buffs (other than ram because that can cause issues again)

[vernal summit]

It doesnt work then lol, ive lunged at Stegos, carnos, raptors, and other Deinos and none have been grabbed or drowned.... its a broken dino lmaoooo

[hexed sorrel]

skill issue

stegos cant be dragged

[vernal summit]

There we go

[mystic cedar]

I've drowned full grown carnos as a deino, it's a problem with you, not the game

[hexed sorrel]

weight has to be half your weight

[hollow canyon]

what exactly did you do while lunging them?

[vernal summit]

blame the player for a broken game

[vernal summit]

I lunged at them

[mystic cedar]

Bro if you cant do something that others can, it's not the games fault

[hollow canyon]

No, I mean irl - did you press rmb?

[hexed sorrel]

cant always blame the game

[vernal summit]

I havent seen any other Deino player drown a dino lol

[vernal summit]

Cant alway blame the player...

[hexed sorrel]

I literally drowned a teno

[mystic cedar]

How new are you? lmfai

[hexed sorrel]

he must be new