balance-feedback-discussion

[old hull]

carno is fine , i dont understand anyone who says 2 pounces should not kill them , if you are the carno then why are you letting utahs pounce you at all

[lusty walrus]

@cosmic gyro more Eu Server Ty... everything permanent full -.-

[keen plover]

I mean, it is pretty massive. I doubt it has any threats when it's full grown

[pearl wadi]

today i was on eu4 at center with like 17-20 utahs and purging everything... was a lot of fun... now utah feels like it should feel in packs

[keen plover]

What does that last part mean?

[pearl wadi]

mean me?

[keen plover]

yes

[pearl wadi]

utah feels now as powerful in a pack as it was imho supposed to feel already in former updates

[keen plover]

Ah

[pearl wadi]

if u play smart u take a carno out with ease now if u r 2vs1

and that feels rewarding

[keen plover]

Oh definitely.

[pearl wadi]

in update 4 the carnos were a pest

[keen plover]

Agreed, although I dislike how that has transferred onto utah

I want more land carnis

[pearl wadi]

thats true

[keen plover]

I dislike when 1 creature is the most played by a wide margin

[pearl wadi]

ye but the people who love to play predators have only 3 choices

deino utah carno

and if u want to play on land it reduces to two choices

would be nice if they would integrate at least 2 or better 3 other carnis in near future... dilo, cera and bari

[keen plover]

sadly. Can't wait for cera, bary, troodon, herrera etc... We'll hopefully have good spread

[pearl wadi]

i would love to play cera and bary

[teal sand]

Me neither, I was a cera main in legacy

Can’t wait for my bro to be out

[pearl wadi]

were u one of those u could solo a rex?

[teal sand]

I could solo but I couldn’t do it well, getting away from it’s left bite was a pain

[pearl wadi]

i was rex main

[teal sand]

I mostly agree to this but 2 pounces are a bit much in fairness

[crude blaze]

gotta realize you need more herbivores before more carnivores

example herrera could not survive with our current roster

though to be fair i kinda doubt it'll survive in the future roster but
eh i might be proven wrong

but yeah you can't keep adding carnivores with ONLY ONE mid tier herbivore choice

(at least not without adding more ai)

[teal sand]

Yeah we need either more ai or more herbis to give carnis more options

[crude blaze]

yeah there's like literally only teno as a killable herbivore that's more than just a snack right now

[teal sand]

Off topic but there needs to be something done about body camping

[crude blaze]

oh that's easy
just run away and act like you kosed it

[teal sand]

It’s honestly not fun and toxic as hell that when you actually kill something in a herd they just stay there until the body de spawns

[crude blaze]

they get bored and leave after about 5 minutes if you don't show interest and act like you killed it for fun

[mighty knot]

Just walk away and watch out of sight until they get bored or need water or something

[teal sand]

Did that before, came back like 5 mins back they damn stego we’re still there, we killed it but it costed us like 50% of our pack

[mighty knot]

Or find another food source, go to another hot zone and eat something there. Come back and see if the body is gone or free to eat now

The bodies take 2 eons to be eaten by compys so unless someone else ate it or moved it the body will be there waiting

[teal sand]

These are herbi players, they just stay until it despawns.

[crude blaze]

yeah bodies don't despawn in evrima though dude

it takes over 40 minutes got big bodies to on official
unofficials can crank that i think though

[teal sand]

Thank fuck

[crude blaze]

yeah
if Herbies stay there for that long someone in your pack keeps messing with them and it's making them wanna stay

[mighty knot]

^^

trick is to leave them alone and sit somewhere nearby

don't start a fight or act like you want to because that just gives them something to do (on top of the location of the body you want)

[teal sand]

It’s stupid that I even have to do that. But it’s better than them watching you starve as they guard it.

Fuck blockers tho that shit is actually very annoying

[mighty knot]

valid they can fuck off

but I think a mechanic doesn't need to be implemented to stop them

just deal with it or find something else to eat

there's the argument of "Just don't kill something in a herd"

[teal sand]

Some people defend it by saying you failed the hunt bc you didn’t eat. Wtf dude that’s advocating for mass killings just to eat one damn body

[teal sand]

Yeah man just starve you’ll be fine just don’t kill is

[mighty knot]

assuming they camp it you will starve anyway, it's a dumb argument but it's one that you can't really counter

[crude blaze]

yeah I've had to kill multiple people just because they refuse to leave the body before

[mighty knot]

my point is body camping is just gonna be a part of the game

forcing herbivores to stay away from dead bodies or become debuffed by dead bodies can be abusable, so it's not really an option

[crude blaze]

if you're utah though. here's how you get stegs to stop camping
'get 2 pounces on them'

[mighty knot]

do stegos actually bleed out from 2 pounces

[crude blaze]

no
but it scares the shit out of them

they usually run off to try and lay down

[mighty knot]

ah good alright

[crude blaze]

i think you need like 5 or something but it'll take enough blood off they think they're in trouble

[raw reef]

lmao i wouldnt be suprised if they did bleed out from 2

[crude blaze]

yeah it's 4 or 5. depends on how much it runs

[mighty knot]

the balancing in this game is fucked honestly wouldn't be surprised either

plus it takes the stegos a century to get the blood back

bleed them to scare them, eat the body, then just get another 2 pounces on them

[teal sand]

Yeah fair, I usually find most rules in servers to be cringe but we need a leave a body rule.

I’m just seething bc of the amount of times it’s happened

[mighty knot]

just play official solves all problems

[crude blaze]

if it happens that often you're staying at the body.

[mighty knot]

playing unofficial is probably the only way you will reliably deal with body campers

but that comes with the drawback of having rules

[raw reef]

lmao i used to bodycamp shit but than i actualy played carnivore for a while and now i feel like a real asshole.leave the bodies yall

[teal sand]

Yeah I only pay unofficial now

I haven’t played official since 4

[mighty knot]

you have ascended beyond them, congrats

[crude blaze]

i prefer official on evrima

[teal sand]

Fair

[mighty knot]

evrima doesn't work well with rules imo

[crude blaze]

evrimas admin kit is so broken you can't enforce rules.

coming as someone who has used the kit on a large server.

[teal sand]

Or at least not yet

[mighty knot]

body tether or body down is just a pain in the ass and with how much better the game is balanced than legacy people do a decent job staying in line without rules

[raw reef]

it would work better if you like,used the ingame recording it would show the players name in the recording

[mighty knot]

I only play official and I've never had an issue with people being crazy and killing everything on sight because for what it's worth no single dinosaur can actually do that

[crude blaze]

you really
idk
you can't use an admin kit on evrima right now..
currently you NEED TO BE CLOSE TO PEOPLE to see what they're doing
there's no global for anyone to tell you that they need help or that there are rulebreakers
by the time they discord you it's over

it is only usable to unstuck people

and even that doesn't always work because when you teleport it can kill you.

you know what the admin kit DOES do? doesn't document admin commands.

admins can grow themselves as much as they want and no one can tell :)

so unofficial is RIPE with admin abuse because their superiors can't see what they're doing other then bans

[raw reef]

funny dinosaur game thats been in development for years not working properly haha

[mighty knot]

I don't know how they do it

[crude blaze]

however you play official and there's occasional hackers so it's kinda a trade off

unofficial with admins that constantly grow themselves or official with the invisible croc every week

[raw reef]

epic anticheat not working

[crude blaze]

oh it's working: kicking people out of servers when they try and join with chrome running 😂

[raw reef]

lmao

[teal sand]

I still like update 5, but it needs to be way more optimized and polished

[crude blaze]

yeah optimization is really bad at the moment

my 3080 gitters.

which sure is not a 3090ti or whatever but i still shouldn't get 20 or less on the isle when i can run rdr2 on high at over 60 of all things

[mighty knot]

indie dinosaur game runs worse than elden ring with both on low settings

the isle on low settings runs worse than monster hunter world with maxed settings

[dusky surge]

both those games have millions of dollars and hundreds of employees behind them

[slim dragon]

You gave the reason yourself
Indie dinosaur game

[dusky surge]

early access indie open world 100 player PvP online-only game made by around a dozen devs and around a few tens of thousands of dollars
VS
AAA single player oriented game made with a few tens of millions of dollars made by an entire studio of 100+ devs which is released in a mainly completed state after years of in-house dev and QA

[mighty knot]

valid but I note how it gets worse as time goes on

[dusky surge]

it also adds more features and changes as time goes on

[mighty knot]

I'm of the opinion that they should not focus on adding features to the detriment of performance

[hollow canyon]

my guy... we aren't meant to be tagging developers for this kind of stuff, you can only tag Punch and they are already working on new servers, this isn't even the right channel for this kind of request.

Amarok is a programmer who works on the AI, he cannot just make more servers for us.

[dusky surge]

issue with that is they can get AMAZING performance... for the current update

and then they change things and we're back to square one

[mighty knot]

Yep

[dusky surge]

this is why U9 exists

[mighty knot]

I already suggested this and 70+ people agreed that we shouldn't wait until U9

quality of life pass could really be used immediately

[dusky surge]

and then they'd add new major shit and it'd be for naught

also the game NEEDS content'

its still lacking in roster and mechanics to deserve slowing down at this time

[mighty knot]

Except that we wouldn't be stuck with 6 months of bad LODs, performance, and anticheat issues

[mighty knot]

absolutely correct

But if updates have almost become a yearly occurrence, the community shouldn't be left with plentiful bugs, bad performance, or major balance issues for the duration of the next update's development time.

[dusky surge]

the most recent delays to U5 are more of an issue with Unreal than anything

[mighty knot]

Irrelevant though, they released a broken update for the 3rd or 4th time in a row. I am suggesting this time they don't patch some of it and leave the rest for the next update half a year down the line.

Long update times are understandable and necessary with such a small team, but the problem is the time between these updates is where the game is not in a particularly great state

[hollow canyon]

They've done that before and oh boi was the game unplayable for quite some time

[mighty knot]

We'll see how update 5.5 goes but if the trend is already set then we can expect many bugs, performance issues, and balance issues to stay with us until the next (and arguably most complicated) major system is released.

I have hope that they won't do the same thing ANOTHER time

[hollow canyon]

Well yea, this build is probably the least stable live-build I've seen in quite some time

[mighty knot]

sucks too since the updates add cool ass stuff

but when they release broken the feeling of "they aren't gonna fix half this stuff before they go dark for another 5 months" sticks with me

which again is not because of a problem with update times, it's a problem with the state the game is left in during those update times

[keen plover]

@tawny solar Stego is a herding animal. Also even if the groups were lowered to 2 or 3, nothing is still killing it lmao. Also group sizes don't even matter for herbis if we're being honest. Stegos can sustain a massive group due to the sheer amount of food to go around.

[tawny solar]

Yes, but that is not balanced in the slightest though?

[keen plover]

What's not balanced specifically. Not being able to kill a stego in a group or the food?

[tawny solar]

The group size. Then carnos group size should be increased to 10 and utahs group size to 25.

[keen plover]

I mean you can go ahead and still group to those sizes. I see utahs megapack all the time. Although good luck doing that with carno. You'll all starve before you even get a chance of killing a stego herd

[tawny solar]

Yes, sure there is megapacks of utahs, but it's not possible to form a group of that many. 25 utahs vs 5 stegos sounds more balanced

[keen plover]

Tbh, that really isn't balanced. Balance doesn't mean you need to kill something. Balance to me = you have the option to defend yourself and survive or be able to run away. Also 25 utahs would still probably all be wiped out against 5 stegos. Not to mention the idea of a group of 25 utahs roaming together is a bit yikes

[tawny solar]

It's about as yikes as 5 stegos in a group, imo. That's like saying 5 rexes should be in a group when rex comes out.

"Paleontologists studying a group of four or five tyrannosaurs at a single fossil site in southern Utah say the find suggests the imposing predators may have lived and even hunted in packs, reports Sophia Eppolito for the Associated Press"

[short spire]

A couple of those stegos will probably be babies you can pick off easily tho

[tawny solar]

Yes, but if not?

[short spire]

Then they’re powerful 🤷

It’s not like lowering the group limit would do anything

[tawny solar]

Yes, so rex should also have a group size of 5 then I guess.

Since they were a pack animal

[golden coral]

Stegos shouldn't come in more than two adults, just like any other apex really. No reason to give groups to that kind of large and powerful critter.

[short spire]

Ah yes because you found one source that said that

Rexes working together would have been incredibly rare

They didn’t have the brain capacity to form complex groups

[tawny solar]

Ahh, show me where it was rare. Show me sources of that.

[short spire]

All of the lone rexes that are found???

Literally almost all Rex fossils are alone

Plus their brain was literally too small

[tawny solar]

"We know Stegosaurus didn't live in herds, but was probably solitary or lived in small groups."

[keen plover]

Not all apexes should be solo or duos. Some should herd imo. Anky? Solitary. Stego, shant? herding. Trike could also be solitary or in a duo

[short spire]

Komodo dragons sometimes work together but they split after hunting

And once again, lowering group limit won’t do anything

[tawny solar]

Yes it will

[short spire]

They’ll herd together regardless

Oh? Then why are there still carno mega packs

[keen plover]

No it won't. Look at utah players for example. A lot of food = megapacks.

[tawny solar]

Yes it will, you know why? because if you split up the group, you can't see where the others are

[short spire]

Broadcast exists

[dusky surge]

werent they one of the world's smartest predators? They had huge brain casings iirc

[keen plover]

That doesn't matter for stego when they just trot around

[tawny solar]

It does matter.

[golden coral]

I think none of them should really herd, they're too big, too hard to sustain (or should be) and just too powerful in general, to have groups. Yes, even stego, though it's "weak". But shants coming in anything more than a trio at most (if we go with the weak hadrosaur run away thing) sounds like it'd be pretty unbalanced to me. And I do think all should be allowed to go in duos, since we're humans that are playing, and we're somewhat social, so it's nice to have someone to talk to and nest with and all that.

[tawny solar]

Okey, if it does not matter, increase the group size of utahs to 25 then

[short spire]

Ok it still wouldn’t change anything lol

[dusky surge]

my god does the size of its brain change each fucking study wtf

[tawny solar]

Yes it would

[short spire]

If 25 utahs find each other they will group together regardless

Unless they’re really dumb

[tawny solar]

No, that's hard to sustain a group of 25 without all the nameplates.

[short spire]

It’s really not that hard

[tawny solar]

It is a lot harder.

[short spire]

Once again broadcasting exists

And chat

[tawny solar]

Broadcasting with 25 people

Yeah, good luck

[keen plover]

Fair. I think opposite, but we'll just have to see what the devs do.

Why would you even want 25 utahs with you. Unlike stego with 5 of them, you'd probs only be on 1/3 diets. Not to mention the fps

Also where's the fun or skill in swarming something with 25 of you

[tawny solar]

Where is the skill with 5 adult stegos?

[keen plover]

The difference is, stegos can't hunt you. I'd be pissed if I was a carno and 25 utahs came to attack me lol

[golden coral]

I'd argue there's some skill and planning in being able to coordinate a good defense, much less an offense, with stegos, due to how their attacks work and all :p

[short spire]

The only real way to split up herbivore groups is to make them move into many different areas of the map

That way some need to go one way and others go another

And they physically can’t group up

[keen plover]

I mean, that would probs work for different species

Stegos would still vibe with other stegos

[short spire]

The diet system kind of does it

For example “I need pumpkin so I’m gonna go northwest instead of staying in the swamp with the herd”

[keen plover]

The herd usually just follows you

or you make a plan to go together

[golden coral]

That we do. Maybe it's just cause I think that if you and me are both trikes, and we need lots of food and both want perfect diet, we're probably going to have an issue at some point. The power and ability that trike most likely will have would mean any "argument" between us could quickly turn lethal, unlike smaller and "weaker" critters, thus it's better safe than sorry and not stick together in the first place.

[keen plover]

but yeah, it does split in the basic foundation of diets

[short spire]

Migration system will probably also help splitting people up

[teal sand]

The group system is kinda unnecessary bc people over group anyway. Other than being noticed there isn’t really a disadvantage of being over grouped

[golden coral]

Biome based diets please!

[teal sand]

People do it anyway

[keen plover]

I agree.

[tawny solar]

The thing is, you don't HAVE to follow the diets when you are an adult already. It's not a lot of negatives that comes with it, except for stam regen.

[short spire]

Max health regen, bleed regen

[tawny solar]

Yeah, but those does not matter with 5 adult stegos

Because they will never bleed

[short spire]

Kind of does if pounced by utahs lol

[teal sand]

The only adult where you really don’t need a diet is hypsi, unless they are nesting

[tawny solar]

8 utahs vs 5 stegos? Fair fight

[short spire]

Can’t really try to hit pounced utahs without risking friendly fire

[short spire]

Never said it was but they still have to worry about bleed

[tawny solar]

Not really

[teal sand]

Yes they will. Adult stego are a lot more killable now that pounce is fixed. If the stego is alone they are fucked

Hell 2 even

[tawny solar]

I'm not talking about alone. I'm talking about the max group size, which is 5 on stegos currently

That is so OP that you don't need to worry about 3/3 diet

[crude blaze]

okay but

why do elephants live in huge herds of 10+

that's so op, nothing can fight 10+ elephants

[tawny solar]

"We know Stegosaurus didn't live in herds, but was probably solitary or lived in small groups."

[teal sand]

I’d say 5 works against them. So much to keep track of and friendly fire is inevitable

[crude blaze]

isle isn't realistic

hell look at the utah

[tawny solar]

Right, if it's not realistic then balance it

[crude blaze]

also herd limit doesn't keep people from grouping so they'd do it anyway

[tawny solar]

That is an awful argument

[teal sand]

Ehh, it kinda is, accurate and realistic aren’t the same thing. It’s a scifi that implements realism

[tawny solar]

If that does not keep them from doing it anyway, why not increase the group size of utahs to 25 then?

Since they do it either way.

[golden coral]

This is a game.. so while we can base things on realism, it's not always going to be that way.

[short spire]

Like I said, do it, it doesn’t matter

[crude blaze]

yep

[short spire]

25 utahs will group together anyways

[crude blaze]

exactly

[tawny solar]

Yeah, gonna be real fun when rex comes out. I'm telling you. You will have a great time.

[crude blaze]

it isn't like
ok
if there was GROUP CHAT then it would be different but there's literally only local so grouping has no benefit over being able to find some people

[teal sand]

It doesn’t matter exactly. 25 utahs still group. You have a valid criticism but are giving the wrong solution

[crude blaze]

tag me in 5 years when it does

[teal sand]

Increasing pack size isn’t that much of a game changer

[tawny solar]

Yes, it is.

[golden coral]

Not that we know how rex is going to end up in the game anyway so, we'll see when we get there

[crude blaze]

but yeah i don't think 5 stegos is bad, coming from someone who doesn't play stego

[tawny solar]

lol, ofc it's bad. It's stupid OP

[teal sand]

If it is then why do you see carno mega packs?

[golden coral]

In any case, you're trying to make an argument for a specific matchup, without taking into account that maybe it's not meant to work that way. If there's two or more stegos, utahs do not hunt them. Could be that "simple" as it were.

[short spire]

I’ve almost never seen 5 adult stegos anyways lmao

[tawny solar]

@teal sand Because it's a lot easier to coordinate with nameplates

[crude blaze]

that

[teal sand]

The max adult stego I’ve seen are 3

[tawny solar]

It doesn't matter if you have not seen it.

[crude blaze]

yeah it does LOL

[tawny solar]

No, it doesn't

[teal sand]

No no he has a point

[tawny solar]

You are not the whole server.

[teal sand]

Just bc we don’t see it doesn’t mean it don’t exist

[crude blaze]

yes but that's like saying the legacy unlimited grouping was horrible

and it wasn't

[tawny solar]

Legacy will be thrown in the trash though, won't it?

[crude blaze]

kinda? the principles from it are in evrima though

but okay
you can't look at our current roster and say
'yes these terrestrial predators were made to hunt stego'
we have two lightweights

my opinion is more why is stego even here LOL

[short spire]

True Stego was honestly a bad idea to be added when it was lol

[crude blaze]

ofc it's gonna be stupid op
it's
like ... look at it

[teal sand]

Exactly, as soon as I heard stego was next I knew it would cause so much problems. It shouldn’t have been added in the first place

Herd of tenos is just fine

[crude blaze]

it's like
i crapped myself when i saw TRIKE is also like. being tested for mechanics and rigged. it can come in soon

WHY the living FUCK would trike be beneficial to the ecosystem??

[teal sand]

Trike should be saved for way later

Unless If they add a big pred with it, it’s a dumb idea if it gets added

[crude blaze]

there's nothing to hunt these huge herbivores. until something that can reasonably kill them enters the playing field, stego is gonna be up

[tawny solar]

I just hope it gets balanced better in the future. Just had to lift some steam, because I got killed by a herd of 5 stegos

[crude blaze]

it'll happen some days

[teal sand]

I’m fine with a herd of 5 Stegs, as long as they aren’t body blocking scum

[crude blaze]

same

i prefer max stegos over max tenos

max tenos you need to actively run for your life from as they chase you down in a terrifying mass

stegos you can just kinda
... walk around.

[grave veldt]

Stego was only added due to its rig being done a while ago but obviously it wasn’t the best thing to add

[teal sand]

Me and my pack of Utah’s once found a herd of 11 tenos

Tenos*

[crude blaze]

that's like
terrifying level of teno

more than 4 is terrifying level to be honest

[teal sand]

Yep and the worst part was they either had hacks or admin abused and one teleported to me and kicked my face and killed me

[keen plover]

Ah. How exactly did that happen without you attacking them

[grave veldt]

He tripped and fell right on the tail

[crude blaze]

clearly

that's a big reason why i don't mind big stego herds
you can just avoid them.

[teal sand]

I absolutely hate stegos. As soon as they were added I hated them

[keen plover]

[keen plover]

agreed

[grave veldt]

Don’t hate stegos just don’t like them being added at all

[teal sand]

Yeah but they have lil shits like pachy. If you wanna avoid them they don’t wanna avoid you.

[crude blaze]

ok that would be funny though
falling into that stupid cliff pathway near center and into a herd of 5 stegos 😂 😂

[teal sand]

That’s kinda what I mean but I hate how they were added

[tawny solar]

Herbivores are made to be attacked by carnivores in this game, no?

[crude blaze]

no.

no they aren't. LOL

[keen plover]

no, but even so. 5 STEGOS

[tawny solar]

Yes, they are

[frail bobcat]

@wispy kite the teno AND the pachy are stronger than their counterparts, its gonna destroy the balance

[golden coral]

I dislike stego because I think it's a rather badly designed playable, the roster issues aside.

[grave veldt]

Yea this I don’t mind the dinosaur itself it’s just adding them in is a problem

[crude blaze]

that's like saying moose are made to be attacked by wolves

[golden coral]

Which is sad, because it's probably my favourite critter among the herbis, been since it first was added way back when.

[tawny solar]

@crude blaze This is a game-.

[teal sand]

I love stego the Dino, it has a neat design and cool Colours. But they were not needed yet

[tawny solar]

The concept of the game

[grave veldt]

The jab is still a very strange way to attack imo

[keen plover]

Even so. You went out of your way to attack 5 adult stegos. Why?

[tawny solar]

Is for the carnivores to hunt herbivores

[crude blaze]

yes but you're scrungly little utah is NOT made to run up and attack 5 stegos.

[tawny solar]

Then make the fking group size bigger then.

Or stego group size smaller.

[hollow canyon]

what is meant to attack 5 Stegos though?

[teal sand]

Yes, but there are limits, you should know when to fight and when not to fight. You can run away in this game. This game isn’t always about combat

[crude blaze]

creatures that aren't ingame yet

which is why stego was a bad choice to add

[golden coral]

That, the lacklustre mirror matchup, only one kind of attack, and so on... I'd say the playable could be made better and more interesting. And I hope at some point it does get a rework.

[tawny solar]

So, nothing can ever attack 5 stegos? They will be forever safe then?

[hollow canyon]

Yea I don't think there is any carnivore on the roster that could attack 5 Stegos and live to tell the tale of how that went

[crude blaze]

that's the point of herding up, to be safer yeah

[teal sand]

That is true, they shouldn’t have been added, but you should not throw hands against 5 stegs as a single Utah

[hollow canyon]

Like - on the whole roster

[wispy kite]

You are joking, right? They wouldn’t be stronger, it would just lead to more people playing herbies.

[teal sand]

Yeah but they have no one that can rival 5 stegs tho.

[tawny solar]

I wasn't a single utah. It was max group size of 8 utahs vs 5 stegos.

[crude blaze]

no solo of anything should be able to kill 5 'apex' herbivores

[tawny solar]

So either increase the group size of utah or decrease the group size of stego

[crude blaze]

i do agree that 8 utahs is too small

[teal sand]

Stego isn’t really apex. If apex is s tier stego is a very high A tier

[alpine plover]

I don’t see a pack of anything killing a pack of stegos

[golden coral]

Considering it should take 7-8 utahs (a full pack) to stand a reasonable chance vs one stego, I would say that if there's two or more stegos, they're no longer prey to you.

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto is stronger than Carno though

[alpine plover]

unless we’re talking a stupid amount of carnivores together

[frail bobcat]

They are currently stronger than their counterparts and lowering their growth is ridicolulous

[hollow canyon]

^

Well, Pachy isn't stronger than Utah imo

[grave veldt]

Not sure if even 20 utahs u could kill them jfbim being honest

[crude blaze]

yeah i do think pachy should have less growth tbh

[hollow canyon]

but that's only because Utah is broken

[tawny solar]

@golden coral It would be if the group size were bigger

[crude blaze]

the over 2 hours for something that gets one shot by Utah kinda sucks

[teal sand]

That literally will change nothing, stegos can just stay together and trot

They will herd regardless

[hollow canyon]

Pachy's growth time isn't 2 hours, the growth time of both Pachy and Utah is the same

[grave veldt]

I think currently the way how Utah is it’s about even with pachy which personally I dislike

[crude blaze]

one hour and 45 minutes, my bad for not being 'precise '

off by 15 minutes sheeeesh

[golden coral]

Which would be dumb, because then all groups would have to be adjusted. You're not meant to hunt more than one apex I'd say, it just.. is beyond your power. I don't think you'd hunt more than one shant, or trike, or rex, or giga either. Or anky even. You'd probably not even hunt anky with twice as many utahs due to it being, well, anky.

[hollow canyon]

Hmmm... not quite right still, Utah and Pachy have the same base growth time

any differences between their growth times are down to diets scuffing the balance

[crude blaze]

well carnivores will always grow faster than a herbivore of the same growth time.

[teal sand]

I’d say only 2 stegos is possible to kill. Anything above that as of now is untouchable

[hollow canyon]

not necessarily true

[crude blaze]

that's just due to how they're made and that's fine imo
but yeah pachy gets one shot by utah and wouldn't be equivalent to it

true
if i find all 3 diets right next to each other miraculously it will be the same yes

[hollow canyon]

Nah, not at all

[crude blaze]

but carnivores get all 3 their first eating

[hollow canyon]

you don't need to find those 3 diets next to each other

[crude blaze]

YEAH YA DO

[teal sand]

Yes you do

[hollow canyon]

Yes but they don't last them to full growth, well on Utah they do but that's an exception

[crude blaze]

each nutrient has about 5 minutes of tick from spawn

[teal sand]

A small carni can fill up on everything. Small herbis need to travel when young

[hollow canyon]

Carno and Deino - you will run out of nutrients long before you reach full adult

[crude blaze]

aken--
yeah

[teal sand]

To get all

[crude blaze]

don't run your mouth before you play

clearly. you haven't touched a single herbivore

like any single one

[teal sand]

The amount of travelling as a herbi you need to do to get all 3 diets is insane

[hollow canyon]

Yea nah, I've only played mainly Tenonto since update 4 dropped, if you're taking longer than a Carno to grow to full adult - you're kind of bad and playing it wrong

[teal sand]

You can’t get all 3 filled up when you spawn

[crude blaze]

pachy isn't bad orca!

[hollow canyon]

if you go about it the stupid way - yea it will take you forever to get all 3

[teal sand]

Ik I used to main it. I loved travelling from plains to beach to swamp

[golden coral]

Pachy trot though... xD

[crude blaze]

but even stupid aken lol

[grave veldt]

[crude blaze]

all herbs will not be able to get all 3 nutrients before one runs out

[grave veldt]

Pachy is considerably slow for a small tier tbh

[crude blaze]

it's just how the game is right now and that's ok

[hollow canyon]

if you're bad at the game that is the case

I've just grown a Tenonto yesterday - got to full adult before any nutrient ran out

[crude blaze]

go touch a herbivore and then talk

[golden coral]

Maybe it's better this update, but when I tried out pachy, it was.. not fun :p

[hollow canyon]

Literally just afked almost the entire growth

[crude blaze]

because teno's plant spawns require you to go a far way so unless you hacked or got a very glitched plant that's impossible

[teal sand]

I’ve seen radish roots in south spawn before

[hollow canyon]

it is very possible if you give this game at least the tiniest amount of thought

[golden coral]

You can as teno at least, I'm pretty sure. Most likely as pachy and dryo too. Stego would be the one that would struggle due to distance, but now that you got two in the plains, more or less, it's also most likely perfectly doable.

[grave veldt]

The pachy dmg nerf while I think is great on carno it really hurts pachy itself when it fights Utah with its 100 dmg only now

[hollow canyon]

if you just run around the map like a smart-otherwise person it will be taking you forever to grow

[crude blaze]

yeah radishes can bug and occasionally spawn in south
so you got a bugged plant

[hollow canyon]

tbh that's probably how it should be bad people should get punished for being bad

[hollow canyon]

You don't need to spawn in the south

I pretty much always spawn NW

that's the best Teno spawn

[golden coral]

Yeah, I'm not up to date on pachy balance, I just remember the trot and me going "oh hell no, I'm not doing this back and forth" because I prefer to not "waste" my stam running, since it's needed for combat. (and I main stego so you know, stamina is important!)

[crude blaze]

pachy has it pretty good right now

diet wise wise least

the whole getting one shot by utah makes it not great but
it's reasonable imo

[grave veldt]

I can trot as most animals to conserve stamina but pachy is way too slow for me to use it so I just run around anyways

[golden coral]

@crude blazeYou eat radish from NW, then pick some potato on the way down, run through the former shallows, and get ash down in swamp. Fill up on potato as you go along since it's still along rivers.

[hollow canyon]

it's not

[hollow canyon]

nah, let him run around the map 24/7, that's the better way of doing it clearly

[golden coral]

Just so. And because I dislike using my stam like that, I'm passing on pachy until it gets a useful trot. Which is a bit of a shame, because it would be fun to play as it.

[crude blaze]

it is
you can't tell me that a creature of the same size latching onto another and stabbing like 10 times into it's stomach with huge knives wouldn't kill it from blood loss if it didn't get severe help

literally LOL

[slender kettle]

@wispy kite Ok, I'm convinced herbivore players like you just want a peaceful growing simulator with little carnivores at all.

[hollow canyon]

realism is irrelevant - irl Pachy would be Utah fodder, Tenonto would be... everything fodder, it would survive a Pteranodon attack I guess, Carno would make almost the entire roster extinct

[crude blaze]

that being said i wish the pachy had a method to counter it more easily before it got that severe

that's not even realism that's anything of an equal side getting it's guts ripped open

[hollow canyon]

it is realism

you want the game to realistically portray what a Utahraptor attack would do to another animal in this game

realistically half the herbivores in this game would be complete foddder to carnivores, Stego would be the only one at all capable of defending itself

[crude blaze]

realism would be uhhh
getting bit twice and getting an infection while the predator follows slowly for about a week

[hollow canyon]

it's just irrelevant to balance

Pachy wouldn't be ramming things, Carno wouldn't be charging, Tenonto would tickle other animals with most of its attacks

realism is just irrelevant

[crude blaze]

yes there's creative liberty but the isle DOES INTEND MODERATE REALISM

if it didn't there wouldn't be creatures catered to realism

and features for it as well

[hollow canyon]

just... lol

[crude blaze]

like why add courting if you didn't want mild realism

[hollow canyon]

"creatures catered to realism"

literal pokemon

[hollow canyon]

because people want it and it is supposed to make the game more fun for them

[teal sand]

“But carno has a bite weaker than a horse “

[short spire]

“Waaaah my acro is fat”

[native tulip]

Hello, can someone confirm there is a bug in wich other dinos can see the outlines on Deinos under water ? As if they have cloaking mechanism but u can still see it, kinda like in the predator movies?

[hollow canyon]

Yea no, it doesn't

[crude blaze]

if realism wasn't intended there wouldn't be fractures if you fell
there wouldn't be bleed

[hollow canyon]

From what I've heard - yes, at least I was told by a friend of mine that he keeps seeing Deinos all the time

[hollow canyon]

no, those are intended as game mechanics that are supposed to make the game more fun

[crude blaze]

there wouldn't be limited grouping
there wouldn't be same species only chatting

[hollow canyon]

they have little to nothing to do with realism

[crude blaze]

there wouldn't be diets

[hollow canyon]

yea there wouldn't really be grouping at all

[grave veldt]

Being based in realism is different then the entire game being realistic

[crude blaze]

there wouldn't be degrees of night vision based on your species

[hollow canyon]

if there was realism there would be no diets, the diet system is an absolute joke from the point of view of realism

[golden coral]

Ehm.. what kind of argument are you guys having?

[native tulip]

Okey, that sucks. I was told aswell but havent seen it in person. No wonder evewryone runnes away exactly when im about to lunge

[grave veldt]

The isle is realistic

[hollow canyon]

whether the game is supposed to be realistic

[crude blaze]

aken says the game has no realism at all in it

it's not fucking saurian

[hollow canyon]

Which... idk I think he's arguing that it's supposed to be realistic but gives arguments to the contrary for whatever reason

[crude blaze]

but it does have mechanics to create a believable experience

[hollow canyon]

If this game was meant to be realistic 3/4ths of the roster would be gone

most of those animals would just go extinct almost on the spot

[crude blaze]

lol dude ur dense

[hollow canyon]

the remaining ones would behave and act in a completely diffferent way than they do

[crude blaze]

if you think im saying the isle is a realistic ecosystem you clearly aren't listening at all.

[hollow canyon]

yea no, you're one of the people that use the "realism" argument whenever it suits them, I already got that

not that it matters since most of the things you pointed out are anything but realistic

it's just nonsense that is being projected by you who assumes those things would show some degree of "realism"

Idk, I'd have to go into each one of examples that you gave there but it's not the channel for that, they are pretty much all wrong though

[crude blaze]

ok dude
go cry about ur fat acro LOL

[hollow canyon]

Idk for Acro, it can be fat as far as I'm concerned

it's an ugly design for an ugly animal, it fits Acro very well

it's cartoonish and unrealistic just like pretty much everything in The Isle

[crude blaze]

all you've really been doing is being toxic about people's feedback which isn't the point of the channel. give something productive or begone

[hollow canyon]

so it absolutely suits the rest of the game

[crude blaze]

sitting here complaining, whining and calling people bad is just cess-y

[hollow canyon]

No, I've been correcting the completely wrong and untrue statements you've been making

Your statements regarding the herbivore growth are just wrong, it is pretty much just a matter of skill

[crude blaze]

oh no not just this conversation. you've been in here doing it for like the whole conversation even before that

[hollow canyon]

not even skill just... game knowledge and awareness

[crude blaze]

it's all you've been doing my duuude
give feedback don't be toxic

[hollow canyon]

What the statement that Tenonto is stronger than Carno? That's just a fact

I don't care whether you consider me toxic or not, if you claim things that are just wrong and spread misinformation - I'm going to call you out for it

[crude blaze]

ok!

[hollow canyon]

This isn't the channel for me to be having a conversation with you about this though, either get back to discussing feedback or drop it

[crude blaze]

no use arguing with you cause, again. as i said prior you don't listen

have a good one though!

[winter iris]

well, I think I see the point Aken is making. I think he/she says that The Isle isn't realistic in many aspects (which is true), for example it is true that the diet is unrealistic, especially for carnivores, it is also unrealistic that stego can run that fast, that teno can jump (utah in reality shouldn't be able to jump as well though, probably pachy shouldn't jump also). On the other hand I think it is true that The Isle is quite realistic for some other aspects because it is quite a hardcore survival game, similar to what would happen in a natural environment

[crude blaze]

yeah! it's a sci-fi fantasy game with some aspects of realism

it's no saurian LOL

[winter iris]

anyway, it is out of doubt that the game will be better when Utah's pounce will stop been guided by a magnet no matter where the pounce was going to end up haha

[crude blaze]

that or able to hurt the Utah when it is on your back such as bashing it against different objects or rolling on top of it

[winter iris]

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the reduced hitbox for carno's bite it is a now a bit too small? Many times bites that are perfectly on target don't get delivered, it seems like

[crude blaze]

carno is weird
it can't bite but then it's charge basically auto aims

[winter iris]

true haha. Even if in update 5 I experienced a charge that did not sort any effect on utahs or tenos (like happened 3 times and the charge was perfectly on target, I guess it might be a bug that occurs sometimes)

[wispy kite]

Pachy is not stronger then Utah, definitely not with the new recovery speed. And Tenonto is not stronger then Carno.
The herbies you meet are simply more skilled then most carnies. Maybe that explains your perception.

[teal sand]

Realism and accuracy are related but they are not the same

Isle has elements of realism. Isle is realistic in the context of their world with real world elements

[wispy kite]

This game is currently overpopulated with carnivores. Sure I love to play Utah. I mainly ply Utah actually. It’s fast to grow and now it’s relatively balanced. But I’d also like to play herbivore, but growth takes way too much time for my liking. I cannot spend 4 hours in a game.

[crude blaze]

i think teno is a bit stronger than carno at the moment after the bite nerf it got

but really that's just personal preference at that point

carno little bit more precise with its heads but tenno has to be more reserved and tactical

[wispy kite]

@tawny solar
#balance-feedback message
That’s because you should not mess with a herd. If you see a big Heard, then you can maybe catch some juveniles. But you are not supposed to completely destroy it.

[crude blaze]

but teno got em extended hitbox on it's kick and the reach of that stun is what i think puts it over carno at the moment

because it's pretty far

[tawny solar]

Uhm, it makes no sense to max the group size for utah at 8 if stego has a max group size of 5

[wispy kite]

I think since Carno slowly becomes what it is supposed to be, an ambush hunter, it is fair to say that playing Carno right definitely gives you an advantage over a teno.

[tawny solar]

They can basically just group together 5 stegos and never die

[crude blaze]

yeah it's really personal preference
though
carno REALLY has to get the drop on a teno

[wispy kite]

Well that’s what it is supposed to be. Strength in numbers.

[tawny solar]

Exactly, increase the utah group size also then

[wispy kite]

Dude, when have you seen a bigger lion pride then a herd of buffalo?

[tawny solar]

That's an awful example. Stegos didn't herd

[keen plover]

This still going on lmao

Anyways 25 utahs would still die to 5 stegos so what's the point.

[tawny solar]

The chances are much higher

[slender kettle]

Then play as a Pachy or Teno. Stego's deserve every millisecond of growth time they have because of how overpowered they are.

[wispy kite]

The thing is, 4 Utahs can kill one solo Stego. That’s ok. But once the stegos managed to find each other and group up, then they should be somewhat safe. You also have to consider that a stego herd will most likely start to nest, resulting in other/new opportunities.

[wispy kite]

I didn’t even write about stego in the comment you replied to.

[tawny solar]

I don't think any dinosaur should be immune in this game, just because they maxed out their group. Then it is balancing issues somewhere.

[obtuse ocean]

i would rather fight 4 stegos then a solo one, cus they always hit eachothers lol

[wispy kite]

But they are not immune. They will not constantly stay in a group. And one alone can be killed when swimming by a croc or by a few Utahs.

[tawny solar]

Yes, they can constantly stay in a group because how easily it is to get food for herbivores

[crude blaze]

one will always wander off
it's patience that's key

[slender kettle]

That's the only herbivore that takes 4+ hours

[wispy kite]

Most people join this game solo and meet people during their play time. They are not constantly in a group.

[crude blaze]

and it's really fun to stalk the herd and wait for you opportunity to strike!

[obtuse ocean]

Ive never been in group as stego, always solo

[hollow canyon]

I think that in general you're equating the term "immersive" with "realism". The Isle is I believe supposed to be "immersive", it's meant to create a world that you could find somewhat believable but it isn't meant to be "realistic". Realism means portraying things the way they are in reality. That's not what this game is trying to do by any means.

[tawny solar]

Yes, but we are talking about the gameplay with a group of 5 stegos together and the balance around that.

[hollow canyon]

Hopefully that clears it up

[crude blaze]

nonetheless you still need to wait until they aren't together
same thing with a carno attacking utah packs

[obtuse ocean]

They cant chase/hunt, zero speed/agility. 1 stego should be incredible hard to take down with the current rooster. As it is

[crude blaze]

you gotta wait until one breaks off then pick it off! be tactical

[wispy kite]

Alright. It’s still too much. I play a few hours a week, depending on my time, so it takes 1-2 weeks to grow a stego? Seriously, not cool.
And that doesn’t include all those moments you can die to a few Utahs, a croc, cannibal stegos, etc.

[tawny solar]

What if they never do? Cause they are not forced to wander off by their own.

[slender kettle]

Then.don't.play.as.a.stego.

[fringe surge]

@opaque beacon

I don't think stegos main attack should only have 10 uses

[hollow canyon]

Yes, that's the beauty of The Isle, it's designed around making you sink hours upon hours of time for no good reason before you get to have any fun. Idk I'd like the devs to do something about that but I don't think they will.

[crude blaze]

they always do eventually. be patient :)

[fringe surge]

Tail swing its stegos "special attack" and its weird to try to say it is

With only 10 uses that gives stego basically 0 chance against large utah packs

[tawny solar]

The thing is, you will not be able to kill 1 stego before the 4 others comes and help it

[hollow canyon]

dw, even if they do, you're not killing one of them before the others show up to help it out. 5 Stegos is just too many

I'm honestly surprised that the Stego group limit is still 5

[tawny solar]

Yeah

[hollow canyon]

I was quite convinced it was lowered down to 3

[short spire]

One swing kills a utah

[hollow canyon]

I haven't played Stego since the time when it first came out so I genuinely don't know but there's no way it makes any sense for this animal to be packing up to 5

[fringe surge]

Bait swings

I just think only 10 swings is way too low for something that takes 5+ hours to grow at best

[hollow canyon]

you don't even have to, pounce drain stamina, if you pounce it it won't even get to swing 10 times

[short spire]

Yeah so the Stego is punished for being baited

[fringe surge]

That's way too harsh

[hollow canyon]

because it is, Stego had 10 swings at one point, it was hot garbage

[fringe surge]

Have you played stego

10 is way too low, and its current amount might be too high, there's a middle ground here guys

It just sounds like carni mains are just salty and its clouding their judgement a little bit, stego does need a nerf though to make it take more skill.

[crude blaze]

with raw damage no
but you should be able to stack enough bleed given 4 pounces do enough and stego, just so happens to have 4 pouncing slots on it

[obtuse ocean]

Why is everyone trying to talk balance with zero rooster, everyone gonna have tons of stuff on its menu when we have 10 more dinos. Some you ignore some you go for

[fringe surge]

The problem is that stego can form groups too easily

[crude blaze]

a good utah pack can get a STUNNING amount of bleed on a stego within 30 seconds if given the opportunity

[fringe surge]

I feel like atp in the game stego should only be in duos

[wispy kite]

Because this talk about a huge roster is either a lie or will result in a much worse game. There are roughly 100 players on the server. Now imagine how nesting will work.

[fringe surge]

Maybe make it so negative diet effects stego more? That way trying to herd with a lot of other stegos or different herbs just isnt possible

[crude blaze]

yeah you'd never find a mate

[tawny solar]

@crude blaze Yeah okey, let's say that happens and a utah pack kills 1 stego before the 4 others arrive. They still won't be able to eat that stego, because the 4 other stegos will still be too hard to take down

[winter iris]

not sure, I think I agree with @crude blaze that teno is a bit stronger than carno now. What you say would be true if a single ambush would result in a loss of up to 70-80% of the teno's hp, but realistically a perfect ambush could take away 35% of teno's hp (if you're good and lucky), once the first ambush is done the advantage that carno has, basically finishes. In fact, teno has got more attack options and none of these options requires full speed (which means a certain distance to be travelled). Additionally, the two more powerful attacks are the tail slam and the rear kick, which do not expose the more vulnerable part (the head). On the contrary, every attack from a carno exposes its head, is less powerful than a tail slam and causes less bleeding/damage than a kick (pretty sure about the damage being bigger for teno, but it's a while i'm not playing it so might be wrong). Also, carno runs out of stam very easily, whilst teno doesn't. All in all these are the main reasons for which I think teno is a bit stronger than carno now. Also, I can't understand why people get so strict with carno being an ambush hunter, but have nothing to say about things like stego infinite stamina or teno jumping which are way more strange than a carno face tanking dinos (btw almost all carnivores ambush prey already in the game to have better chances, so changing stats every time doesn't really change this unless something is clearly OP)

[fringe surge]

Not all the playbles will be available in most servers

[short spire]

Still possible lol just sync up your diets

[fringe surge]

The big roster is basically to give server owners the ability to make their own roster

[fringe surge]

If they're coordinated enough to do that then they deserve to herd up lol

[obtuse ocean]

I dont see it,your not supose to go around killing everything. Thats bad balance if its about how many you are and not skills. I wouldt care a split second meeting 20 bad utahs, but i would fear 4 good ones

[short spire]

“Ok guys let’s all head north”
“Ok guys let’s all head south”

[fringe surge]

Yeah, that's how herds work.

[silk harness]

@wispy kite I was pretty much with your suggestion until the herbivore growth thing lol

[hollow canyon]

you're right about the damage... and pretty much everything there

[silk harness]

40 minute pachy would be wack

[fringe surge]

It stops them from body camping at least

[short spire]

My point is it’s not difficult to sync up

[short spire]

Nutrients go up to 300%

[fringe surge]

What do you think should be done to stego then

Minus the 10 swings idea, that's dumb imo.

And will never be added, we tried it before and no one liked it

[short spire]

Make swing take some more stam at least, 22 is a bit ridiculous

[fringe surge]

Maybe 16?

[crude blaze]

yeah i mean
okay carno definitely can come out on top of a teno but teno is usually better

[golden coral]

The biggest issue is, nothing in the game is supposed to really hunt stegos, much less be good at it. So it's a bit iffy to balance.

[fringe surge]

The diet idea would help to, just because its still kind of easy to sync up doesnt mean its not better then the current system

[crude blaze]

also if the teno gets in a good spot it can literally starve out the carno which is funny

[fringe surge]

Where you dont have to care at all

[wispy kite]

Nice to hear that. Well, in the end this is just a forum to let some anger loose. Devs don’t really care anyway.

[obtuse ocean]

Sounds like a pack of utahs, i dont care about anything. Unless we choose to attack something.

[hollow canyon]

not true, they do read those channels, I've even had a short talk with Hypno in this channel

[fringe surge]

Yeah, I just think a lot of the ideas in this channel are bad

So that's why you don't see them in game

[wispy kite]

Most of them are. Mine included.

[fringe surge]

If there was a way to have the best most liked ideas show cased and weed out all of this bad ones then we would see more change

[crude blaze]

yeah and feedback from actual testers is usually priority

[fringe surge]

Maybe make it so the weekly most liked ideas are put in a seperate channel for the devs to check out

[crude blaze]

(as it should be)

[hollow canyon]

yea, most of them are, the majority of the community doesn't even know how the game works exactly(not sure whether that's to be blamed on the community or how clear the game makes its inner-workings) so it's not surprising

[silk harness]

Yeah it's at least kinda insightful to see what other players are feeling. And entertaining to see people pouring salt lmao

[fringe surge]

What do you guys think of peskys stego idea?

I think lowering stegos HP to 4.5K is fair and good

[obtuse ocean]

Yea sure, nerf utahs aswell then

[silk harness]

Pesky's ideas aren't great, especially for the longterm. 4.5t stego would get obliterated by apexes

[fringe surge]

The HP can just be changed later?

[golden coral]

Sure, if we nerf growth time to about 2 hours or so as well.

[obtuse ocean]

And noone gonna play stego if 2 allos can just walk up to it, and clap it

[fringe surge]

?

I don't think its needed

I main stego, well its the closest thing I have to a main, and I think less HP won't effect it much besides making it take more skill.

[golden coral]

? I mean, if you're going to lower the weight, health and blood pool to make it stupidly weak, then it sure as hell shouldn't grow for half as long as it currently does.

[silk harness]

They already did 4t stego when it first released and it kinda got clapped by utah/carno

[fringe surge]

I didn't say anything about a blood pool nerf

[hollow canyon]

oh yea the old times of Utahs dropping a Stego in less than a minute

[golden coral]

Deino grows the same time, but it'd be way more powerful and safe, more than it already is, so stego would have to be much quicker to grow to be worth it

[golden coral]

But weight equals health and blood pool

[fringe surge]

Seriously?

[hollow canyon]

yea

[fringe surge]

That's dumb, I get HP but why blood?

[golden coral]

Probably because health/blood makes sense together?

[short spire]

Weight doesn’t affect blood pool I thought? Carno got a blood pool nerf without a weight nerf?

[hollow canyon]

no reason really, the devs don't tinker with blood values, they prefer to touch the blood resist from what we could see

[fringe surge]

it makes sense but it limits balance

[golden coral]

No, it got less resistance when walking/trotting/standing

[short spire]

Oh

[golden coral]

It did not get less blood, only taking more blood "damage"

[hollow canyon]

it didn't, Carno got a bleed res

[golden coral]

Like how deino takes less blood "damage" due to extra resistance

[hollow canyon]

Only when it's walking/standing/trotting too

[golden coral]

No worries, it's not always easy to understand what is going on :D

[hollow canyon]

it still loses the same amount of blood while running

[obtuse ocean]

Didnt we have bleed resistance in legacy to ?

[hollow canyon]

yes

[fringe surge]

This is more confusing then when blood pools was just a number that had nothing to do with weight

[golden coral]

True, but we saw with earlier weight and health being separate how weird that can get, with utah having 1K hp while stego only had 4K

[hollow canyon]

it's in Evrima too, the only animals with "abnormal" bleed resist are Carno and Deino

[short spire]

So in that case you could nerf weight but give it bleed res like deino

[hollow canyon]

Deino having a higher resistance and Carno having a lower one

[fringe surge]

I understand HP but blood doesn't have to be connected to weight at all

[golden coral]

True, that could be a way to do it!

[fringe surge]

In the UI overhaul, just add these sections to the player screen.

[golden coral]

I think its more so health and blood being together, which when health and weight is together, well, it comes with that. But I don't know how they decide to do stuff xD

[silk harness]

I think the proper nerf for stego is a blood heal nerf. Utah is the only predator for it rn but it heals from a full bucked pounce in like a minute. It's hard to keep the pressure on unless you have a megapack. And usually those megapacks are too spastic and die with their first pounce

[hollow canyon]

but why would you do that? What do you want to achieve?

[fringe surge]

I still think 4.5 HP is fine, if you're good at the game it shouldn't be a issue.

[golden coral]

Less HP I'm guessing.

[fringe surge]

Which is fair, because stego is an apex.

[hollow canyon]

What do you want Stego be more vulnerable to if you're nerfing its hp but buffing its bleed resist? Carno?

[golden coral]

My issue is that stego should be comparable to deino, if they both grow in 5 hours, they need to both be comparable in survival and all.

[obtuse ocean]

lol not even close

[golden coral]

Yes. Peskys balance ideas as base

[short spire]

It takes more skill but doesn’t get shredded by utahs

[golden coral]

What do you mean not even close? :p

[hollow canyon]

more skill against what?

[fringe surge]

Why?

Deino is barely on land

[short spire]

Carno, mostly

[hollow canyon]

I'm talking about what match up do you want it to be worse in?

[hollow canyon]

I don't think Carno has any business hunting a Stego

[short spire]

2 carnos should be able to take down a Stego

[strong solar]

@wispy kite after playing solo carno for time time... yeah its pretty bad unless you can kill a sizeable player every 10 minutes. The ai is either rare or abundant and gives little to no food, it doesn't feel realistic or earned in the slightest. The hunger drain needs to be looked at

[hollow canyon]

it's not on its diet, Carno is a small game hunter, it's not meant to hunt Stego

[golden coral]

Exactly, deino is stupidly "OP" when it comes to sheer survival. And if stego should be weaker, more killable, then it should not take as long to grow by any means.

[fringe surge]

I see deino as its own separate thing just make it so stego can still put a deino in its place and its fine imo

[fringe surge]

I mean how in the world can you even balance that

[golden coral]

No. Carnos should not be hunting a stego.

[strong solar]

plus carno is a "small game hunter" but gets no food from killing small things

[fringe surge]

Deino has water, it automatically is like 100x better at survival.

[golden coral]

If you lower health that much, deino will absolutely win over stego 99% of the time, so.

[fringe surge]

If you try to "make it even" then you just end up with a OP stego we have now

[short spire]

This

[golden coral]

That's why I said lower growth time if you "weaken" stego.

[short spire]

Only way carno survives right now is taking on things it’s own size

[fringe surge]

I mean, technically that might not even be a issue since deino is bad on land.

Stego can just keep its distance and tail swing spam it

[strong solar]

if you can even find them

[fringe surge]

Idk, maybe nerf deino to.

But isn't deino fine balance wise atm?

[short spire]

Stego should fear deinos in the water

[hollow canyon]

depends on what you think it should be balance-wise

[fringe surge]

If you lower stegos growth you just get people spam growing it like we do now

[golden coral]

I mean, if you are fine with a "OP" and almost invincible playable in the game that does not fear anything but itself and can "oneshot" most of the roster.. sure

[hollow canyon]

I think it's an abomination of a playable

[fringe surge]

Elaborate

[golden coral]

Yes, if a stego is swimming, it should be worried. But that's just it, if it's swimming

[fringe surge]

I feel like deino could use a nerf to HP to, it wouldn't really effect it much anyways.

[short spire]

“Op” but only in the water…

[fringe surge]

Since the only 1 on 1 fight deino is going to take on is another deino or a stego

So only those matchups matter

Since otherwise deino can just go back in the water

[hollow canyon]

very poorly designed all around, the entire counterplay to it is - avoid it. You win against it by never interacting with it. It is a one-trick pony of a playable with pretty much 0 depth to it. It's nothing like what we were supposed to get due to the fact that it's missing the tug-o-war mechanic.

It's also completely immortal to everything barring another Deino

absurdly easy to grow on top of that

I think out of all the animals I'd like to see a rework of Deino the most

Stego is a close second

[fringe surge]

I mean its impossible to fix

[hollow canyon]

I don't necessarily think so

[fringe surge]

What would you do to fix it?

I think deinos issue is that there's so many sections of water where you are basically 90% safe that you have no reason to actually interact with it

So you just sit in hotspots waiting for a idiot

Like when was the last time youve seen someone drink from a river

[short spire]

There’s actually very few “truly safe” areas of water.

[fringe surge]

I either drink at swamp, NW river, or south river.

I have never died to a deino in months.

[short spire]

Though deino players only camp in like. 5 spots, so most water is safe

[hollow canyon]

So the Deinosuchus that we got was not the one we were promised - the devs wanted us to have D.rugosus in the game but the community really wanted to have the largest species - D.hatcheri so we ended up getting the latter one. D.rugosus is somewhat smaller and could be made to work much better imo. We'd have a ~5-6t croc that the devs were showcasing at first, it would be less tanky, faster and keep its current biteforce(I'm pretty sure Deino's biteforce is a result of the fact that it was meant to be a mid-tier).

[golden coral]

OP in terms of sheer survival ability and all that is what I meant.

[hollow canyon]

That + an added tug-o-war mechanic would let this playable just work better, it would be about something more than just right clicking once

[fringe surge]

I agree

[short spire]

In that case all herbis are op

[obtuse ocean]

How many bites do a deino needs to kill a carno ?

[golden coral]

I mean, we could make it huntable by carnos and utahs too, remove the bleed resist, make it have to migrate more on land, stuff like that.

[hollow canyon]

4

[fringe surge]

Having to tug of war things like carno and teno would be more fun then just a small dopamine rush from a lunge.

[hollow canyon]

assuming those are bodyshots of course cause locational can change it

[obtuse ocean]

yea, then i dont think deino is an apex

[short spire]

You can fight back against the grab by holding e tho

[golden coral]

Not at all. Most of the herbis can die to most of the roster given the circumstances, deino only fears its own kind really.

[fringe surge]

This isn

[hollow canyon]

...since when?

[short spire]

They could just sit in a forest though

[short spire]

Not sure but it’s definitely a thing

[fringe surge]

Misclick, This isn't something you can fix because if the devs want to have something in game, then you cant just say "just dont have that in game"

Even if its dumb

[hollow canyon]

I mean don't get me wrong I haven't been grabbed by a Deino in months so I wouldn't know but I don't believe that's a thing

[golden coral]

Do keep in mind it can oneshot with lunge and drown, its main method of hunting. Its not supposed to bite stuff to death.

[hollow canyon]

Deino just yeets animals that are below half its weight I'm pretty sure

[short spire]

Tug-o-war would be a bad mechanic if it animation locked you, carno just comes along and gets free kill lol

[golden coral]

And still be found and hunted. While a deino can just sit in water and eat fish, and not be found, much less be hunted.

[fringe surge]

Once the devs got set on having hatcheri in game that was when balance was ruined with no chance of fixing it might as well just live with it

[hollow canyon]

Wait, how would the Carno be getting a free kill there?

[golden coral]

You sure this is a thing and not just belief?

[short spire]

Ah yes because carnis will definitely come to random bush spot #4857274636474747

[obtuse ocean]

yea true, but i know spino gonna destroy it. And im sure if you get bit by a giga as carno. You either die, or running for ur life : P

[hollow canyon]

I'm not following

[golden coral]

Cause Ive heard that before, but never seen it make a difference

[fringe surge]

?

[short spire]

I’m like 80% sure it’s a thing, if it isn’t it should be

[fringe surge]

It is a thing I think, but it doesn't matter 99% of the time.

[teal sand]

Honestly they need to add a mechanic which has water lighten the weight. A deino surly can grab a stego underwater if a stego is in water. But if the stego is standing to a creek and drinking then no. Deino shouldn’t be able to grab it

[fringe surge]

A deino with like 5k or 4.5k HP can tank a few carno bites while tug of waring.

[short spire]

If you’re in a tug o war with a deino and because of it you can move/attack normally, another carni could just come along and kill you

[golden coral]

It's still more likely. And assuming either are found, the deino is way safer. It can show itself and then just go "bye bye", unlike most others, except of course ptera. I guess ptera is as "OP" survival wise, as deino, if anything. When it comes to the ability to just negate most of the rosters way of getting to you and all that.

[short spire]

Not the deino, the victim

[fringe surge]

Then only lunge when its safe

[golden coral]

I don't think it is, and even if it were, it'd just be "bucking" anyway. Not sure it would do much.

[fringe surge]

And?

[golden coral]

You'd either have enough stam vs the target or not, so even less difference than buck/pounce

[fringe surge]

If you mean another carni killing you, then that's fine lol.

You got unlucky

[short spire]

Guy plays deino > his friend plays carno > lunge a herbi > while tugging his friend comes and kills it

[fringe surge]

And?

[hollow canyon]

well... yea it could... although it would have to be one really goddamn big carnivore to take down an animal with 5k+ hp that fast

[short spire]

Or better yet have his friend play another deino

[fringe surge]

You can't fix mixpacking

[hollow canyon]

I mean if he kills it then you still get the food, it's in your jaws, right?

[short spire]

If the 2 are working together tho…

[fringe surge]

Stegos and carnos already mixpack in game, this isnt a big deal imo.

[hollow canyon]

yea well one of them dies the other one is going to just look your way as you slowly drag their friend into the water

[short spire]

Ok so if 2 deinos group up the second could come bite while the first is tugging

[golden coral]

You can fix herbi mixing pretty well if you use diets properly. Carni.. is a bit harder I guess, but could maybe be fixed similarily.

[hollow canyon]

yea that can happen now too

[fringe surge]

Yeah, that’s called team work.

[hollow canyon]

the first Deino just dies if that happens and mixpacking is awfull all around but it is what it is

[short spire]

Guaranteed kill on the victim tho lmao

[fringe surge]

Yeah, you got team worked

Cant stop players from working together

[fringe surge]

the punishment for having a bad diet as adult is too little

[short spire]

Ah yes fun gameplay, sitting there and watching my teno get bit to death while I can’t do anything to stop it

[fringe surge]

If you don’t have at least 1 diet then you should be punished heavily

[fringe surge]

Literally the same thing happens now

[golden coral]

The punishment is plenty enough, though it could be increased. But you need to properly put diets in biomes, and mostly give up on the "diets make herbis move around".

[fringe surge]

You get lunged and you die lol

[short spire]

Hold e though

[fringe surge]

That doesn’t work

[short spire]

Worked for me as carno

[fringe surge]

Like if the deino is smart you are not going to survive lol

[mellow zenith]

not with deino lunge

[short spire]

Yes with deino lunge

[fringe surge]

I’m gonna need video proof or something

[mellow zenith]

it doesn't work with deino lunge, im pretty sure of it

[fringe surge]

I’ve literally never heard or seen someone escaping a deino lunge since update 3 started

[short spire]

Lol I wish my cpu could handle recording evrima

[fringe surge]

And I’ve certainly haven’t seen them say “It’s because I pressed E”

[short spire]

Maybe when I build a new pc

[short spire]

I’ve heard other people say they do it reliably as teno 🤷

[hollow canyon]

btw regarding this - this is my Pachy after ~75 minutes from spawning in

[mellow zenith]

sometime deino let you out because:

1. Not enough stam to keep you
2. He want to toy with its prey
3. Bug

[hollow canyon]

I've played it for the first time in ages now

had no idea what its diet was

spawned in the wrong place, ran around the map like an idiot, it still took 75 minutes or so and not 2 hours

[fringe surge]

yeah pachy is not 2 hours lol

[hollow canyon]

it's definitely doable in an even more reasonably time as long as you know what you're doing

Honestly I thought it would take longer than this

it's been exactly 77 minutes since I started growing it as we speak

[crude blaze]

go change the official wiki then! its clearly no longer accurate if you're correct

[hollow canyon]

ohhh were you getting that from wiki?

That's for legacy lol

[crude blaze]

it has the evrima time as well

[hollow canyon]

Evrima time is dependent on your diet

[crude blaze]

but yeah just dm a mod to get it updated and they'll fix it up!

[hollow canyon]

Mods aren't responsible for wiki

it's ran by a guy who's not even on this discord

[crude blaze]

no i mean a wiki mod

wikis have moderators on em

[hollow canyon]

a private individual, I think they got banned from this discord ages ago

"Grow Duration
2.2 hours; 130min ( Juvie - Adult )
( Hatch: ) 20 minutes ( 0.2 - 0.4 )
( Juvie: ) 70 minutes ( 0.5 - 0.7 )
( Adult: ) 60 minutes ( 0.8 - 1.0 " This is all it has on growth

those are legacy values

I don't see anything about it on Evrima, Pachy in Evrima has the same growth as Utah though

they were made the same in either update 4 stress test or when that build came out

[crude blaze]

hmm yeah I've gotta be looking at a different wiki then cause this one days 1.45 for perfect

ill just tap em myself though

[hollow canyon]

link?

I've only seen one wiki so far, if there's another one I'd like to see it, might be useful for some stuff

[crude blaze]

there's one for a private community i personally use! it's probably just not updated.

has bleedout times and stuff as well

anyway please don't ping me any more (especially for conversations that happened hours prior!) I'm off to work have a good one! ❤️

[white cove]

@modern echo just be smarter than the average lake trout and don't take the bait lmao

https://tenor.com/view/its-that-simple-booger-brown-the-cowboy-way-easy-piece-of-cake-gif-17822561

[modern echo]

good point

[short spire]

@slender kettle carno can live through at least one day (probably more tbh, haven’t tested precisely) without starving and herbis have never had any challenge with food in any update

Just because you starved doesn’t mean it’s impossible to find food 🤷

also why did you block me lmao

[short spire]

@slender kettle explanation: carnivores, in real life, make up only a small portion of the ecosystem. In order to make the isles ecosystem similar, the devs have decided to make it more difficult to survive as a carnivore than a herbivore, and your salt won’t change that.

[hollow canyon]

Carno's hunger time is 45 minutes iirc so it's... slightly less than 24 in game hours

[short spire]

I thought full cycle was 30 minutes?

[hollow canyon]

idk if when you say "day" whether you mean sunrise to sunset or a whole day but if the latter then it's wrong

[hollow canyon]

nah, the whole cycle has always been 60 minutes

even back in legacy

[short spire]

Huh ok

[hollow canyon]

unless they've made some changes while I wasn't looking but

#doubt

[short spire]

Well my carno lived through a day, night, and more day traveling from center to swamp but maybe it wasn’t a full cycle idk

[hollow canyon]

@slender kettle Tbh if you ask me the reason for that is simply that people prefer carnivores at large and if both take equal amount of effort and skill then 95% of the playerbase play carnivores. That's probably why the devs did what they did

[hollow canyon]

interesting perhaps there were some changes I'm not aware of

I haven't tested that... in ages so I could be wrong tbh

Overall the herbivore vs carnivore balance is just weird in the game, there are some aspects of each faction that are just better and easier than their counterparts in the other

but I do think herbivores are currently overall the better and easier to play faction

[slender kettle]

Not true in the slightest. There was never a shortage of Stego's or Pachy's. Even when it was just Utah and Teno, lots of people chose Teno.

[short spire]

Yeah, because even then, carnis were harder to play

[hollow canyon]

That's true but I think on the last patch the general idea was that there were way too many Carnos

[short spire]

Yep, 4.5 was way to easy for carno

[hollow canyon]

I may have been exaggerating with 95% tbh

but majority would probably prefer carnivores, I know I prefer them, I still play a tonne of Tenonto cause goddamn Tenonto is just really fun and has been ever since its "rework"

[slender kettle]

That's no excuse for making the game nearly impossible for one diet group.

[short spire]

Literally not impossible lol

Still fairly simple to grow and maintain a carno

[hollow canyon]

Idk about nearly "impossible", that sounds like a bit of an exaggeration, it is definitely much harder for carnivores atm though

well aside from Deino, Deino is... really easy for how strong it is

[short spire]

Yeah deino is stupid easy, just boring

But for the 2 land carnis, you just have to know where herbis tend to go (for example, tenos can reliably be found in southeast looking for ash)

[slender kettle]

I've trekked the entirety of the center region for food without finding a single soul.

[short spire]

What population was the server

[hollow canyon]

idk about trying to go after herbivores when you're a fresh spawn

[slender kettle]

FULL

[hollow canyon]

if you're a full adult then fair but south east is... well in my experience it's been very much hit or miss

[short spire]

Well, bad luck I guess. Maybe try the big rock?

[slender kettle]

Bad luck? You mean bad balancing

[short spire]

Juvie is difficult without a parent but not impossible, usually I can find a corpse in center or northwest

[mystic cedar]

Leave center?

[short spire]

No, the players were just in a different place.

[hollow canyon]

I mean compared to herbivores where you just spawn and do your thing carnivores are much harder, that's just a fact

[slender kettle]

Fuck it. 6yrs and 1800hrs. I'm done with this game.

[hollow canyon]

I could probably grow any herbivore with the first go

without putting any effort into it

[short spire]

Yeah, that’s why I think there should be more rabbits and chickens

[mystic cedar]

Carnivores are def harder, which is why they are so strong at full growth

[hollow canyon]

well not sure about Stego, I haven't played it in years

[slender kettle]

Ya'll were a big help in that decision

[short spire]

Too many boars though, and carnis become easy

[hollow canyon]

they are generally weaker than their herbivore counterparts at full growth

Utah might be the only exception there

[mystic cedar]

Not really, stego aside cuz stego is a tank

[hollow canyon]

Teno>Carno(despite having a shorter growth by a somewhat significant margin too) and Stego>Deino

I guess Utah is stronger than Pachy but well... Utah is just kind of broken on the current patch

[short spire]

Carno is mostly hunting small game though, will be different with beefier bois

[hollow canyon]

I'm not going to speculate about how it's going to be in the future, I'm only discussing how things are right now

Tenonto is stronger and much easier to grow than Carno

[short spire]

Well if you think about it ptera is stronger than hypsi 🤓

[hollow canyon]

admittedly it could be argued that it's more vulnerable to Utahs

[hollow canyon]

I've got no idea about Hypsi/Ptera/Dryo balance

[mystic cedar]

I mean Teno and Carno are pretty evenly matched and I'd say its tilted in favor of carno unless the teno knows what its doin. Herbivores should still be able to defend themselves especially large ones like teno and stego

[hollow canyon]

meme animals as far as I'm concerned

[short spire]

Carno gets the advantage on teno if it ambushes successfully

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto has a higher skill floor out of the two but if the two play at least optimally - Teno claps ez

[short spire]

Which isn’t that hard

[hollow canyon]

Nah, you're not really getting an ambush off on a Teno that isn't asleep and tbh Teno can win even if Carno lands the charge as an opener

[short spire]

Yeah true

Hopefully when cerato is added tho…

[hollow canyon]

the less skilled both players are the higher the chances of Carno

the more skilled they are the more they dwindle

tbh the skill of Carno is not that relevant, a good or a bad one they will beat a bad Teno

[mystic cedar]

^

[hollow canyon]

good Teno will clap them no matter how good they are though

[mystic cedar]

A bad teno is really bad

But a good teno is really good

[hollow canyon]

yea this dinosaur has the highest skill floor in the game

[mystic cedar]

I like that tho, been tryna get good with it recently and I can defend against a carno now but cant kill one yet

[hollow canyon]

it could defend against a Carno for a long time

[mystic cedar]

Oh yeah they scared of my ass so I shake it at them

[hollow canyon]

Idk if there ever was a patch on the livebuild where it couldn't defend itself from a Carno

[mystic cedar]

Well I'm new so I wouldnt know bout that

[hollow canyon]

there was one on the stress test to update 4 but it was a stress test so it obviously wasn't the way it was meant to be

last update Tenonto already beat Carno quite handily most of the time

now it also got some buffs and Carno got some nerfs so

[short spire]

Not with all the packs of 7 carnos tho lol

[hollow canyon]

it's really in Tenonto's favour atm unless Tenonto player just isn't very good

[hollow canyon]

I'm talking about 1v1 only

[short spire]

Yeah ik

[hollow canyon]

There were patches where Teno could take on more than one Carno but tbh I don't think Teno should be taking on more than one Carno

matter of fact I think it's quite possible right now on the current patch

I've seen it done but haven't played Teno much myself yet

I've been busy spamming Utah cause it's kind of broken atm

[mystic cedar]

So when the big big dinos come out, are they gonna be able to group up or no?

Like giga and shit

[hollow canyon]

Yea they will but

we're years from the release of Giga

as in - it's quite possible that Giga will be released in half a decade at this rate

[short spire]

yeah we're going at like

2 major updates a year max

[hollow canyon]

2-3 animals per year at most it seems

[mystic cedar]

How many have we got this year?

[short spire]

which is pretty understandable for 14 devs but still its gonna be a while

[short spire]

update 5

[hollow canyon]

animals? none

updates? 1

[mystic cedar]

14 dev's? Oh shit this game is amazing for only 14 devs

[short spire]

last animal was pachy in december

[short spire]

most of them are artists too 😛

[hollow canyon]

it's got more than 14 devs, I think the number is in 20s

some of them aren't even on this discord and we aren't aware of their existence

[short spire]

oh i didnt know there were some not in the discord

but theres def 14 in the discord

[hollow canyon]

I also wouldn't say that most of them are artists

Although I guess it depends on how you classify "artists"

either way the biggest bottleneck are the animators

the game has just 2

[short spire]

damn

[hollow canyon]

each animal has 200+ if not 300 animations

that's for 2 people to handle

[short spire]

byea if we're lucky we'll get 5.5, 6 and maybe troodon this year

[hollow canyon]

no wonder new playables are coming out so slowly

[mystic cedar]

I'm excited for that, its gonna be an omnivore right?

[short spire]

no, but it will have venom

[winter iris]

after some hours on the new update, apart from graphics and lighting that I think are quite bad now tbh, I think I have a better idea of the amendments done on utah and carno. What I think is that whilst it is good to see utah's pounce working well, it is now simply too strong. I'll try to explain in better: there's no skill at all in a pounce as it is guided as a magnet on the target no matter where you're pouncing (to be clear, I have always thought that pouncing from a frontal position shouldn't exist at all in the game, or if it does it should be a very difficult one, say 20% success and 80% fail/being bitten) , the recovery time after a failed pounce is really really really really too short. For the increased bite damage for utah, I 100% agree, it was needed.
For carno, there are a few things that don't work:

• the bite hitbox is ridiculously small, and most of the times you just can't bite and bites on target aren't actually delivered
• the decreased blood pool, has been decreased too much tbh, and also if you're just walk during a fight against utahs 1.5 pounces are enough to kill you. I understand that carno megapacks are to be avoided, but reversing the balance and messing it up is not the solution. Now it is definitely too easy for utahs to kill an adult carno and in fact you see mega packs of 10+ utahs in all areas.
  My conclusion is that:
• recovery time after a failed pounce should be increased;
• carno blood pool should be slightly adjusted (either increased or not killing you if you're just walking)
• carno bite hitbox should be adjusted (there wasn't really the need to reduce it tbh)
• utah's growth curve should be adjusted

• last point, would be nice if utah's pounce wouldn't work like if there was a magnet on the target

[hollow canyon]

@winter irisAll good points but...

This is why they made the adjustment to Carno's bite

[fringe surge]

@rawdawg

@slender kettle

One of the main advantages for herbivores is the fact they eat plants

Letting carnivores have an alternative that’s similar breaks balance

and doesn’t make sense

[fresh laurel]

honestly let juvie carnis eat bugs 🥱

[slender kettle]

They have no choice. Herbies form mega herds and utterly decimate carnies when that happens, and it destroys the fun and even playability of being a lone-wolf carnivore.

[fresh laurel]

Man I was trying to eat a dead teno as a sub utah until 2 tenos and a pachy came and chased me until I got stuck in a tree and got bonked

I still have other stories of aggro Herbivores

[analog mirage]

That’s just how herbi players are, better kill you than risking you growing up to kill them

[true needle]

All carnis can outrun any megaherd

[slender kettle]

It's not about outrunning. It's about killing one so you don't starve to death within 30mins and pray his butthurt friends don't deny you his dead body.

[grave veldt]

thats due to poor hunger choices that limit carnivores in a unbalanced way

it doesnt mean all herbivores are now over powered

[short spire]

tbh i've always thought combat in isle should be about massive damage attacks that could often 1hit if landed in the right spot, and fighting would be mostly avoiding getting hit. It would be more realistic and would allow carnis to have a chance at picking off a member of a large herd.

[slender kettle]

I'm not saying we make X stronger than Y, I'm saying to even out the diet playing field by reverting global hunger drain and AI to pre-Update 5 levels.

[short spire]

would require a complete overhaul of the combat system though

[grave veldt]

i agree with you

especially with nesting now it should be way less

[short spire]

juvies should have fast hunger drain to limit afk growing and because they are growing so fast, but yeah adult hunger should drain much slower

2-3 days for carno stomach to go from full-empty

[slender kettle]

What I'm trying to convey is just how frustrating it is as carnivore right now and how tedious it is to be looking for food every single millisecond playing the game.

[slender kettle]

I can reach common ground on that

[grave veldt]

this is the only update where ive actually starved as a carnivore

[slender kettle]

Same. I scaled all of center only to die of starvation mid-fight. It's just not fun anymore.

[grave veldt]

carno is genuinely so hard to nest with

[analog mirage]

Carno was fine it just needed Utah to work properly and be able to hunt it, then it got nerfed again and is more of a pain to grow

Yes, nerf the thing after buffing the only other Land Carnivore

[grave veldt]

ppl forget that utah was indirectly buffed due to all knockdowns being less severe with more time to run away

also the recovery is way too short in my opinion at 1 second

[zealous citrus]

You should be able to punish a utah that misses its pounce

[grave veldt]

^

1 second is way too short considering most likely u have to turn ur dino around and then attack

2 second is a better option imo or 1.5 seconds minimum

[zealous citrus]

Yeah it should be inbetween what it was before and what it is now

Every other creature Atleast can be punished when missing a attack or using its ability

[fringe surge]

Eh, that would require a lot more effort

If you could actually tackle shit in game it would be a nightmare for physics code

Like realistically teno would just slam carnos head in and one shot or nearly one shot it, and carno could grab tenos head and do major damage.

But this isn’t a AAA game so we have to settle for something reasonable for the devs

Sucks but

[dusky surge]

also people dont like their runs to be ended instantly

[white cove]

deino players in shambles

@slender kettle the "thought process" was written out in the patch notes.
Low food drain + low food abundance = megapacks of carnivores that kill anything that moves

whether they need to kill it to sustain themselves or not - now no amount of center trawling will permanently sustain the resident 8 carnos

Now, having played as Utah a few times I definitely needed to hunt often to survive but survive I did