general-feedback-discussion

[frozen kestrel]

as deino or stego?

[echo tiger]

Deino

[frozen kestrel]

you should

but you arent

[echo tiger]

Even as 2 or 3

[frozen kestrel]

as 1

[echo tiger]

Nah man, even as 2 or 3 you are at a huge disadvantage

Stego's thago does 1250 damage per swing and is insanely spammable as the guy demonstrated in the video you posted

[frozen kestrel]

? im saying that in the water 1 deino should have the advantage over one stego

[echo tiger]

He put you to atleast stage 2 with just spamming it and walked away.

Yes, and i'm saying that you dont because of damage values comparitively. Deino does about 500? Stego hits for 1250 with each swing

[frozen kestrel]

it wasnt me in the vid

[echo tiger]

Well whatever, whoever the guy is then

[frozen kestrel]

deinos alt does 1200 to stegos head

and it still gets bodied

[echo tiger]

Which it should be if it is on land, it shouldn't if it is in the water.

But it still doesnt matter, the balance now is incredibly stego sided even if you have the numbers.

[frozen kestrel]

yeah

[echo tiger]

So Deino doesn't clap a stego then

[frozen kestrel]

it can

in specific, two deinos can clap a stego who doesnt run

[echo tiger]

Well anything can if the person operating the controls isn't the sharpest tool in the shed sure

you might as well just say that for any other match up

[frozen kestrel]

it takes the bare minimum skill level to stand still and spam rmb

[echo tiger]

Right, and even then you still get bodied.

[frozen kestrel]

exactly

stego takes minimal skill

[echo tiger]

And deinos can't body it.

[frozen kestrel]

yeah

[echo tiger]

Like at all even with numbers.

[frozen kestrel]

no

if you have two deinos you can kill a stego

i stand by that point

and my opinion wont change

[lavish quail]

If one dies

[echo tiger]

Hang on let me just get a picture from just this morning.

[frozen kestrel]

that depends

[echo tiger]

This is on EU1, there are four dead deinos there, 3 adults and a sub.

[frozen kestrel]

ok

[echo tiger]

All due to a stego.

[frozen kestrel]

they have skill issue

they went into the shallow ass water

[echo tiger]

Thats what i've been talking about this entire time.

[frozen kestrel]

im talking about other parts of oasis

[echo tiger]

Even in deep water you get the element of suprise, hit him twice and then he runs away and heals before you can

You can't bask afterall since he probably has buddies around

[frozen kestrel]

most stegos dont run after 2 hits

[echo tiger]

That's just a matter of experience

[frozen kestrel]

a solo deino shouldnt be trying to kill a stego

period

[echo tiger]

There were 3 of them they rushed out at it

[frozen kestrel]

on land?

[echo tiger]

Bit its head 3 times, still all died.

[frozen kestrel]

???

[echo tiger]

Yeah on land granted

[frozen kestrel]

yeah

they probably ran in and got smacked in the head twice?

[echo tiger]

Thats what i've said this entire time.

You see, you are the rare example of a player that knows your limits right.

You sit in deep water presumably, wait for them to come to you and fuck up, get 2 suprise bites and wait it out right?

[frozen kestrel]

no

[frozen kestrel]

you contradict yourself with that very statement

[echo tiger]

How

[frozen kestrel]

no

[frozen kestrel]

you literally said im a rare example of a player who knows their limits

that isnt even remotely rare

[echo tiger]

By your opinion, according to you there's players that let themselves get hit and die to deinos in semi deep water due to head bites right?

Not exactly someone who i would say, knows their limits

[frozen kestrel]

you're misinterpreting what im saying

im saying that two deinos can easily outtank a stego in water

and kill it

[echo tiger]

But they cant

[frozen kestrel]

but they can

[echo tiger]

If we're talking about oasis

[frozen kestrel]

yeah

[echo tiger]

They cant. at all.

[frozen kestrel]

they can

as long as the stego doesnt run

[echo tiger]

But it's going to

[frozen kestrel]

then it'll run away with 10% hp

[echo tiger]

And you get nothing out of it

[frozen kestrel]

you get plenty

[echo tiger]

And it will come back, fully healed and repeat the same thing over and over again.

And thats assuming they dont have friends, which the vast majority of times they do

[frozen kestrel]

the main two purposes of this game are to survive and to pvp

you will also be fully healed or damn near it when the stego comes back

both deinos

[echo tiger]

Which you can't do because:

1. He can just walk away and completely ignore you when low and just heal, his healing is going to be faster and he is going to be in a much better position regardless of trades
2. You dont get any food out of it

[echo tiger]

This is in reply to this btw

I keep not using reply functions

[frozen kestrel]

if the stego ignores you, then mission accompolished

its not camping the water

[echo tiger]

Great.

Then what? catch the guys that are drinking at the deeps right?

[frozen kestrel]

not every stego player runs away

[echo tiger]

Absolutely every player will run when their health is low, if not then they're not human.

[frozen kestrel]

no

you might be smart enough

[echo tiger]

I'm sorry to say it's a basic human fucking response at that point.

[frozen kestrel]

but some people arent

[echo tiger]

And they're just not human

[frozen kestrel]

then what are they

if they arent human

[echo tiger]

A vegtable, perhaps a cabbage.

[frozen kestrel]

I think rather a potato

[echo tiger]

IDK you have to be something else to not run

Like what the fuck

I'd understand if they were protecting wounded or if they were stalling for time but my god

[frozen kestrel]

idk man people just dont run

ive seen it plenty of times

take the deinos who tried to kill a stego on land in your SS

[echo tiger]

Idk what the fuck kinda crack they're smoking but damn if i sit there and tank deino bites and not even have the remote perception of 'im in danger' then i want it

[frozen kestrel]

lol

[echo tiger]

And those guys did run, they were running back to the water from the river but they were blocked by the stego and killed off

All of them

[frozen kestrel]

rip 5 hours

[echo tiger]

Because they came from the river to actually come to oasis, but the stego just blocked them and started smacking

[frozen kestrel]

you're just dead at that point

[echo tiger]

Absolutely

[frozen kestrel]

lol

[echo tiger]

But it's not a fair and easy match up for deino and it shouldn't be on land, on water it's even worse since the stego is just going to park his ass up and completely annihlate you constantly

[frozen kestrel]

in water it should

be a fair matchup

[echo tiger]

The stego should annihlate a deino?

in water?

[frozen kestrel]

no

it should be fair on the banks of a river

[echo tiger]

It should be yeah. but it isnt

[frozen kestrel]

in water it should be in deinos favor

and land, stegos

[echo tiger]

Its a 75/25 match up spread in stegos favour in water and a 100% match up win on land for stego

[frozen kestrel]

I'm talking about right where the water and shore collide

[echo tiger]

Ye

[frozen kestrel]

110?

add 75 and 35 XD

[echo tiger]

Whoops

[frozen kestrel]

lol

[echo tiger]

Thanks my math is shocking and im tried

[frozen kestrel]

go to sleep

[echo tiger]

tired* asdufhufdgujhdrufiigjd fuck

But even then it still doesnt change the fact that deino is fundamentally a badly designed playable.

[frozen kestrel]

perhaps

[echo tiger]

If it's struggling against stego which is the smallest apex it is going to be hardcore bodied by every other apex in the roster

[frozen kestrel]

i mean, when they added shallows, the oasis

then yes deino is bad

[echo tiger]

Deino was bad before

[frozen kestrel]

they ruined its main ability

[echo tiger]

The fact that it's stamina was nerfed, it couldn't compete on land for resources and got hard bodied by carno squads consistently when it tried to take food and it's land capabilities were nerfed into the fucking ground makes it hard to really interact with the rest of the roster.

Deino is too confined to the water for it's own good and at the end of the day, it will only ever be a newbie trap or fodder.

[frozen kestrel]

it doesnt get bodied by carnos

[echo tiger]

Not now it doesnt but it used to

[frozen kestrel]

unless 4 or 5 catch one on land

[echo tiger]

back when carno had its 200 bf

[frozen kestrel]

huh

25 bite force changed NOTHING

lol

nobody even asked for it

[echo tiger]

It absolutely changed everything, it was the difference between requiring a hit to kill it which for five hours, a single hit makes a world of difference

Factor that in with 18 trillion carnos and you kill every deino you see

[frozen kestrel]

it didnt change much

maybe an extra bite to a matchup or two

thats it

[echo tiger]

A hit is a world of difference for a dino that takes 5 hours to grow.

[frozen kestrel]

not really

[echo tiger]

It took 18 bites back then, now it takes 22 i think?

[frozen kestrel]

yeah

it shouldnt be that hard to hit 4 extra bites

[echo tiger]

It is because of the ALT hitbox

[frozen kestrel]

on a deino with, presumably, no stam

[echo tiger]

and the fact it used to 1 shot a carno to the head as well

[frozen kestrel]

when?

[echo tiger]

Update 3.5 i believe

[frozen kestrel]

i dont believe

but idk

[echo tiger]

I mean you had deinos ravage the lands back then too

Then 3.75 dropped and it's land capabilities got NERFED into the ground

[frozen kestrel]

it could 1v1 stego in 3.75 still

atleast

[echo tiger]

Yeah there was no change to it's alt damage numbers

[frozen kestrel]

?

[echo tiger]

And it's stamina costs, then they nerfed its stamina even more

Thats why it could 1v1 a stego

[frozen kestrel]

it could still 1v1 stego after the alt nerf

[echo tiger]

Yeah but they nerfed the stamina even further

[frozen kestrel]

i did on several occasions

when?

[echo tiger]

MT

for update 4

[frozen kestrel]

ahh

[echo tiger]

Now it is so astronomically bad in the match up

[frozen kestrel]

do you think stego needs nerfed or deino buffed?

[echo tiger]

Neither

[frozen kestrel]

you think its in a stable spot atm?

[echo tiger]

Buffing and nerfing creates contention and is needless

No i dont, but thats sadly the way it's gotta stay

[frozen kestrel]

why?

[echo tiger]

I dont see a way you could viably balance deino with exception to allowing it to grab shit thats swimming.

Because it is once again a fundementally badly designed playable.

• It has a 1 shot attack, Lunge is literally BOB Mosa.
• 1 shot attack is not counterplayable, theres no tug of war or anything for creatures of a reasonable size (Carno and up) when there should be, crocodiles struggle with something as frail as gazelle compared to it and sometimes they're not able to pull it in.
• It is incredibly tanky compared to the rest of the roster
• It has the only undetectable attack in the game provided you're in deep water.
• Has incredible bleed resist.

[frozen kestrel]

make the isle have basic physics

tail go slower in water

boom

[echo tiger]

I think you should be able to grab anything but they should be able to have counterplay

UNLESS its a utah or pachy or a baby

[frozen kestrel]

maybe

depends where u grab

[echo tiger]

Locational grabbing would be borked as fuck

[frozen kestrel]

if u grab a carno by the neck then i argue that its just done

[frozen kestrel]

lmao true, with the shitty hitboxes we have

[echo tiger]

They can barely get locational hits right in the current game, though it would be cool

[frozen kestrel]

they cant

[echo tiger]

Tail hits from a pachy body fracture you instead of doing nothing

[frozen kestrel]

i have video proof of me (carno) getting hit on the tail and stunned by a tenos kick and slam

[echo tiger]

Ye

I had plenty of situations like that, i believe you mate

[frozen kestrel]

not to mention the pachy fractures where u get head fractured through ur ass

[echo tiger]

Everything should have some measure of counterplay, something bigger than you? you can use cover and run away, carno running at you? use cover and tight turns to conceal your movements. But with deino there is no counterplay you're just grabbed and you're done

It's fucking annoying to lose that prog to that braindead of a move and i don't blame people who dont wanna go to rivers anymore

[frozen kestrel]

yeah i can agree

playing for 3+ hours as adult carno just to die to someone who is camping water is pretty infuriating

[barren zephyr]

Teno is looking

hahaha

[frozen kestrel]

XD

lmao

[magic vault]

I mean- it's funny to me- but make sure that when you actually give feedback, you do it in a constructive criticism manner, so that you will not lose the developer's time or even yours.
As someone else pointed out, unfortunately it's a bit useless, as the game does get optimized with every update XD

[paper oriole]

Wtf is this lmao

[outer sphinx]

idefk

[barren zephyr]

the best suggestion ever in the history of mankind

[lavish quail]

Dinosaur tent sells it

[tight oxide]

nah its clearly the ones where herbis should be weaker than carno and be slower and less agile

totally the best ones

[barren zephyr]

the best suggestion ever in the history of mankind

[solid wedge]

@frank ice #🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞

[tight oxide]

exactly

"Lets turn every herbivore who can fight back into walking food"

[fallen cargo]

I don't even know why some people want Herbis to not be able to fight, it makes fighting them more engaging and makes it fun for the Herbis, it's legit a win win lol

[tepid gate]

Idk how you're reaching those conclusions, that's not what the suggestions is talking about at all, it's just another suggestiong that is all about introducing some mechanic against body guarding

honestly, the diets are part of the reason why bodyguarding is so bad

[tight oxide]

I prefer herbi fights being 60% of them winning and 40% of carnivore winning

[tepid gate]

prior to this it was a non-issue

[tight oxide]

but if a carnivore gets the ambush...

[tight oxide]

not talking about body guard suggestion fixes

I see people say to nerf said herbivore into fodder

[tepid gate]

which suggestion are you talking about there?

Because they were all discussing

[tight oxide]

The ones that appear some times

[tepid gate]

This one

[tight oxide]

dmg hitzone?

[tepid gate]

Yea

[tight oxide]

do they mean add someone sort of field where you take dmg?

what

[tepid gate]

I have no idea and I don't particularly care, it's a bad suggestion

[tight oxide]

I'd prefer herbis who body guard to get weird screen effects that are flat out annoying

if they stay near a body too long

no debuffs

[tepid gate]

I don't think the game should introduce more cancerous mechanics to stop bodyguarding which is allowed to occur because of this atrocious diet mechanic

[tight oxide]

wdym

body guarding always been a thing in this game

even before diets

[tepid gate]

it was a non-issue prior to now

[tight oxide]

well maybe its because of the carnivore nerfs where they cant fight off the body guards?

im not even sure tbh

[tepid gate]

it's not just because of that

there's far more to it than just that

diets make this a much bigger issue for a couple of reasons

[tight oxide]

What do you think causes it now

diets need to actually spread dinos out lmao

[tepid gate]

1. Each body is far more important for carnivores now, if you'd killed a Tenonto as a Carno you need that body - badly

[tight oxide]

not copy and paste the diet foods at oasis

[tepid gate]

you can't just go and eat a Utah somewhere else

or some AI

because those don't give you the specific nutrient, you need specifically Tenonto(or well... a Pachy as that's an alternative)

that makes carnivores far more vulnerable to bodyguarding

[tight oxide]

I think diets should of been realeased with gore

gore would actually make meat is meat

I dunno what teno has that stego dont have in its meat

[tepid gate]

secondly the way the diet plants have been placed around the map allow herbivores to all hang out in the same spot without much issue

[tight oxide]

true

should feel more biome locked

[tepid gate]

meaning that you can just camp one area, prior to this I'd just outright leave a bodyguarded corpse of someone that I'd killed

[tight oxide]

so you know... you find a wandering herbivore

[tepid gate]

I could just go somewhere else and get back to that body

in most cases the people bodyguarding it would leave it behind

now? No way they're going to do that in most cases

they can camp on top of that body forever since they have their food around it and they know that a carnivore needs each nutrient really badly since carnivores have a much harder time maintaining their diets

[tight oxide]

which is dumb

especially when you know all herbis can stay on grass to not starve

[tepid gate]

this diet system just doesn't work for carnivores it's as simple as that

[lavish quail]

Diets are cringe yeah

[tight oxide]

diets ruined the fun a little imo

I might even say bob has a better diet system for carnivores lmao

[low canopy]

while its easy to say to just spread diets (something i agree on), that can backfire really hard as in resulting only 1 or 2 herbis being played together with carnivore roster purely to get action while the rest just rot away in forgotten part of the map with zero interaction

[tight oxide]

wdym

dont each playbale have something that makes them fun

except dryo...

[lavish quail]

It’s ez though

[low canopy]

lets say you have diet map spread as follows
A is pachy
B is teno
C is stego
Now all these animals are locked to their respective diet maps unable to leave them (to counter mixhearding) now depending how map is laid out only some of these will end up popular due to being on more popular sections of the map while the rest gets kinda just pushed aside
its difficult to explain and this is kinda just me trying to explain how if diet plants are spread without care it can be bad

[lavish quail]

As a dryo main I can say it’s pretty shit to run around forever

[tight oxide]

Cant each plant just be in a biome?

[low canopy]

then its oasis 2.0

[tight oxide]

I mean diet system character menu says where to find each food

and it says it in bioms...

[low canopy]

if diet plants can be found all over the map then the popular sections (hotspots) will be decided by which area is the most accessible via spawn points water and the like

[lavish quail]

Move oasis and foliage beside port. Keep mud there but no plants so people can’t can’t camp. It’s perfect

Ez

[low canopy]

the requirements for what the map needs to pull off have skyrocketed with addition of deino and specifically diets in my opinion, jace has a rough job making sure all of those needs are taken care of

[echo tiger]

But as i've said before diet spread is not going to fix the issue of mega herds and body guarding since there is no negative.

There has to be negatives at 1 diet in order to remedy this and make diets more impactful and desirable to pursue, but the community disapproves of this en masse and it is for this reason that it was changed. At the end of the day whichever way you cut it, diets is just a needless chore that really didn't need to be included for the most part. The core gameplay loop was fine as it was back then with the exception to herbivore gameplay in which there was no real motive aside from find plant and sit at plant, eat plant until grown.

I do think that balancing diets and making it engaging and actually fun rather than an overtly negative experience is a hard thing to accomplish given the nature of the system.

[limber hull]

wouldn't negatives at 1 diet significantly harm carnivores though?

I find that as utah, it's much easier to find and kill boar/pachy/teno than any of the other dietary options

[tepid gate]

It would absolutely screw carnivores over I think. The only solution is really to wait for the carnivore diets to undergo a general change

[limber hull]

^

[tepid gate]

I'm hoping that the game will change as time goes on for the better, really I think that it can only get better from here(because diets should only get better, it's possibly to do them worse since they were worse in the beginning of MT but there was some improvement over time so I do kind of expect it to keep on improving)... but in the meantime I will just go on complaining about how bad the game is right now because... yea it's bad, like worse than at any point in the past year or so.

Well maybe aside from the part where dinos weren't saving cause that was just outright gamebreaking but still, the game itself aside from that was better back then.

[limber hull]

i'd say update 4 would be my fave if not for oasis

if i got more to explore, i'd love it

[tight oxide]

Ngl I think u4 would be best if I could actually wonder around the map lol

but I gotta stay somewhere kinda popular cus water and food drain is a oh boy

[tight oxide]

Is it just me or does the proper ik system update hype me the most

[limber hull]

what is the ik system

[tight oxide]

isnt that the thing where your body moves to be right with the scene

like your tail doesnt go through walls

or your feet align with the ground

I thought it was called ik system lol

[limber hull]

seems really tough to figure out but pretty sure they're working on that

[tight oxide]

also

is it like an on going update?

or dedicated for a certain update

[limber hull]

man idk

[outer sphinx]

inverse kinematics

they've shown work on this like 2 years ago or smth but idk what happened to that

and if they werent scrapped, maybe ik can take part in the combat system, most natably stego and teno

[paper oriole]

@barren zephyr

[outer sphinx]

ovi just shit bc galli and troo exist

change my mind

[paper oriole]

Yeah i worry for ovi

It deserved mimicry ):

[outer sphinx]

we need ovi and troo to both mimic, troo mimics humans and ovi mimics more dinos than troo but they have some in common, here, fixed ovi

[paper oriole]

Yeah i made a suggestion for that recently actually

Still would be cool to get annihilation bear style horror with troodon but ovi would make good use of dino mimicry

[outer sphinx]

ye ik and many people liked it

[paper oriole]

I hope the devs dont dump ovi in the trash niche of budget galli, its one of my fav dinos

[outer sphinx]

i want to write a big fat word doc to send to punch with many problems, issues people have, with some of my ideas, others ideas improoved by me or just other ideas that are just good like ovi mimicry etc, i just dont know when im gonna get to do it

[paper oriole]

lol docs are a bore to write i have like 6 isle docs im just sitting on that arent finished

[outer sphinx]

i have one that i sent a long time ago but most of what i said there is dont feel the same anymore

also bc sending to punch is much better than drowing them here in the flood of garbage

[paper oriole]

Yeah and also sometimes new things come up that change a whole idea

Also it seems that the devs largely ignore the feedback channels, even the phase 2 requests

[outer sphinx]

i mean we can make good ideas but i dont comend them for not looking when for every good idea it gets drowing in 50 more garbage ones

[paper oriole]

It is sort of like rummaging through a dumpster to find salvage

[outer sphinx]

also the sheer number that is just a synonym to: just make the game good is crazy...

[paper oriole]

A ton of them amount to nothing like “x too strong” “fix your game” “this sucks”

[outer sphinx]

and others are ideas that dont think in foresight to whats to come, or they dont think at all (like muh jp fantasy)

[paper oriole]

I would assume though that rummaging through the community's junk is what a community manager is there to do if they still have one

[echo tiger]

Yeah it would, but there needs to be more incentive to actually stick to your diet and not just sit at 1 diet and completely ignore the rest as an adult. I think the best fix is to just make the demands for your diet increase as you grow:

Below 50% you get 3 diets, maybe make it so at like 75% you need 2 diets to stay afloat instead of 3, could even make the demand scale with weight since they're going for realism, but i hate that idea myself personally.

I dont know how you would actually balance it

It's such a borked system

[outer sphinx]

well thats punch but we dont know with what else he's spammed with in dms, other platforms outside of this, he has to stay on multiple platforms afterall

[paper oriole]

If some community outreacher rummaged through and selected more positively received suggestions or constructive suggestions and sent it along to the dev team it could be a lot of help to speed things up and also make changes before its too late. Like how the devs apparently didnt know about the ai issue for so long despite it being all over feedback. Punch probably does get swamped though because the rules say he can be pinged and whatnot, which probably gets abused unfortunately

I bet people dm him for the dumbest shit like ETAs

[urban flax]

That's Wavepoole's job

[limber hull]

I'm the community QA

I'm like Punch but with infinitely less info and importance

[echo tiger]

Dont say that bro you got a green name thats pretty important

[paper oriole]

Budget punch

[outer sphinx]

it'd be more ideas that they like, bc some ideas the comunity wont like bc its controversial (like nerfing herbis etc), you cant just go by what the comunity likes bc this community is dumb af, and good ideas might just be drowned in the rest of the garbage and people may have liekd it but they wouldnt know

[limber hull]

Punch lite

[outer sphinx]

Made in China Punch

[paper oriole]

Nudgepacket

[echo tiger]

Did you guys experience the new pachy changes yet btw? or have you come up against pachies?

They changed it's tap charge so it doesn't stun big things anymore and i love it

[outer sphinx]

punch changes his name to that for 1st april

[paper oriole]

I dont run in to pachies outside oasis enough to experience their changes in vs ):

[echo tiger]

god

[paper oriole]

90% of them are quarantined in that cancer zone

[echo tiger]

I only go there since itoffers the most PVP tbh, it is fucking boring as fuck to sit there but it's so fun smashing herds now

[paper oriole]

I avoid oasis like the plague because i dont like getting 10v1ed im a solo player

[echo tiger]

ye i get that

[urban flax]

What if I told you last time I played pachy I mixpacked with carnos, stegos, tenos and a deino ?

[paper oriole]

[echo tiger]

[urban flax]

But I assure you it as not on purpose

[outer sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/burn-notice-michael-weston-jeffrey-donovan-gun-gun-cock-gif-18299992

[echo tiger]

you have committed the cardinal sin how do we believe you now bro

[outer sphinx]

we dont bc he ded

[urban flax]

I was testing pachy and suffering hell trying to grow, then I arrived at Oasis and found 1 pachy mixpacking with eveyone else there
And I was like "oh, people who don't want to kill me on sight, nice"

[echo tiger]

[paper oriole]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/819011300700192828/819011580188426240/image0.gif

[urban flax]

So I stayed there xD

[echo tiger]

I wish i had a copy of our kill list, we killed so fucking many pachys and utahs

I think it's like 23 utahs and 19 pachys or something

[paper oriole]

The closest thing i do to mixpacking is hang out with my friend if theyre playing something i dont want to but i always just let him get his ass beat if something happens lol

[limber hull]

i once mixpacked with stegos, tenos, hypsis, deinos, utahs, pteras and carnos

we shared food then someone bit another guy and the alliance immediately descended into chaos

[echo tiger]

a stark betrayal

[paper oriole]

The Isle

[limber hull]

we didnt actually fight anyone else we just kinda shared food

it was like a picnic except with deep racial tensions

[echo tiger]

It's gonna sound bad but the most fun i've had with herbivores was making babies have an unfortunate accident as a pachy

It's so funny to me

[urban flax]

That's why I actually consider mixpacking isn't a problem, as long as it isn't people making clans through discord
Your goal is to survive, the other peson is to survive, if you are willing to trust someone with whom you cannot communicate, it's fine

Like that one time when I was in a pack of Utah, we were trying to kill a deino
We saw a pack of carnos, who were apparently chasing the same deino
We 2-called, they 2-called back, we agreed to kill the deino together

[outer sphinx]

and the person on the recieving end?

[echo tiger]

I mean i dont like it so i just kill them regardless

It really fucks the person on the receiving end.

[urban flax]

The person who gotta fight mixpackers ? Well I guess that's not much worse than a megaherd

[outer sphinx]

and both are bad...

[paper oriole]

It can be though with the mixed run speeds and damage types + cc and fracture

[outer sphinx]

not beeing much worse than a megaherd isnt a compliment

[urban flax]

Also, we gotta compare with even numbers. Mixpacking needs at least 2 people, so there gotta be at least 2 people on the receiving end too to call that a comparison, a single person against a group is always gonna be fucked

[paper oriole]

A stego is somewhat balanced because its slow, but it loses that balancing disadvantage if it is mix packing with somebody who breaks knees. A carno is low stam but it loses that balancing disadvantage when mix-packing with high stam animals

[outer sphinx]

size matters too

[urban flax]

That's also why I think dino AI should be somewhat common, because AI just behaves as it's supposed to, that way players can just do hatever they want and not ruin other people's experiences

[urban flax]

imo it's counterbalanced by the fact that you can't really communicate with the other person, that's why I'm also against more calls

[outer sphinx]

like if you are a teno lets say and you get attacked by mixpacking utah and carnos, if it was just one or the other you would be fine but in this scenario not really

[paper oriole]

A lot of mix packs communicate in discord

[urban flax]

Yeah and that is disgusting
There's the good mixpacker and the bad mixpacker

[paper oriole]

And not being able to communicate isnt such a big disadvantage when your setup is already so busted

Bruh

<@&401466542140817419>

[outer sphinx]

good mixpacking is the one intended by the game, like dryo scouting ahead for a herd, the mixpacking we see in the game is absolutely not that

[limber hull]

this man combined airdrop, discord and steam in one single thing

how the fuck

[paper oriole]

Mad lad

[urban flax]

Ideally busted mixpacks like stegos and pachies should be mechanically impossible

[outer sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-reality-is-often-disappointing-stone-infinity-stone-gamora-gif-14046382

[paper oriole]

Carno pachy mix packs are a common cringe i see a lot lately but at least its mostly at center and swamp

[outer sphinx]

rn there is almost no mixpacking that we see that is the good kind like what i described above, its just the ones that should never happen, its good when it allows max of 2 species for ex, like a herd of tenos and a dryo scouting ahead, or some styracos (or any dino less than 4t) wanting austro around

[urban flax]

Also, that one time where I was a mixpacker at Oasis, it was on the mechanic test, so we had an endless supply of humans to feed our carnivore buds
I would have never trusted them if it wasn't the case

[paper oriole]

Well at least you kept it in the quarantine zone

[urban flax]

Well I was not trying to grief anyone, just survive

[paper oriole]

Back when elite fish would beach themselves all the time i ran in to a carno-teno mix pack while i was a juv deino in the separate swamp and they were just dragging all the fish away and the tenos would camp the area when ever the carnos left for food. Was so gross

[urban flax]

bruh

We got attacked by another mixpack tho
A teno who came like it was nothing and hung around for some time, then when his utah friends came by he tried to kill us

[echo tiger]

Mixpacking in general is pretty disgusting

If you have to mixpack just consider uninstalling, unless it's something harmless like a single utah with carnos or a ptera, hypsi or dyro mixpacking

If you're mixpacking with 2 or 3 of your mates thats also fine though, but the mixpackers that actually sit with 15 other people are just

What the fuck man

[urban flax]

I'm not gonna leave an opportunity to be able to grow to adulthood without risk, especially when I don't have a lot of hours to spend trying to grow an animal

Yeah that's boring, but whatever

[echo tiger]

I mean yeah, i wouldn't turn down the opportunity either if it presented itself but as soon as i'm an adult i'm killing the fuckers that do it, it just ruins the game for people alot of the time to the point where i just dont like it

IG i should uninstall

[urban flax]

Well there was one stego, one carno, one deino and 3 other pachys
I doubt I would have managed to kill them all

[echo tiger]

Me and a friend have been terroring the shit out of mixpackers and mega herds on EU1 so i like my odds against that tbh

Mixpackers tend to not be the sharpest tools in the shed afterall

[prisma stump]

Hey guys! Have anyone found a way to optimize/improve the overall performance of the game? Im playing on a mid/low end pc and having frame drops under 30 fps. Thanks in advance.

[urban flax]

I think a way to optimize the game is precisely what devs are working for rn

[prisma stump]

Oh boi I can't remember when they weren't

Im in love with and respect all the progression they have made, however im starting to get a bit frustrated about all the performance issues...

[urban flax]

Well I don't know if there is one for The Isle, but you can try going in options and lowering game resolution
Your game will look like absolute shit tho

[prisma stump]

yeah Im currently running the 70 resoulution game 😅

It's the only real option I have found making a noticeable difference

[urban flax]

I think we won't be getting any major optimization updates until all most important mechanics are in, because since everything is gonna change with every update it would be a waste of time (so nesting, skins, perks, elders, humans)

[prisma stump]

yeah prob

May I ask what ingame setting you are currently using?

I would be really helpful

[urban flax]

I think I have everything on Epic
And I just tolerate the lag

But framedrops are not as extreme for me compared to most other people, and I don't really know why, my PC is not that much of a beast

[prisma stump]

How many fps are you running?

[urban flax]

Between 15-30 fps in most situations
But sometimes it drops to around 5, during combat or when humans use flashlights around

[prisma stump]

Im just tryna get a general idea about how good my computer is I guess

[prisma stump]

ahh kay

damn I feel like 30-20 fps is death lol

and thank you!

[urban flax]

Well I began videogames by playing Minecraft beta version with 15 max fps
Gives a sense of relativity

[prisma stump]

lmao

I feel ya

But playing at 5 fps in a fast/intense game is really impressive imo

[lavish quail]

Fuck.

[urban flax]

That's not a dryo

[white isle]

when this happens, just log off and log back in dont safelog

[lavish quail]

Its painful having to restart the game

[brittle stirrup]

i just had a thought about how when magy eventually comes, itll put a stepping stone for sauropods wont it, and in a lot of documentaries sauropods adults are seen as this near unstoppable force, and well, to earn that, i feel like theyd put the growth time to like 12 hours or something, which will result in retiming every dinosaur like trexes and gigas and then to the mid tiers and the growth time might become aggressively huge and you know what....im scared, imagine it? being a baby pue and you are at 75% growth, youve spent almost 10 hours now and your so close and there it is, 10 allos, or 2 trexes and you know, its over. I want to feel less hopeless when i grow dinosaurs and i want there to be a way to balance such power dinosaurs like giga and trex and certain sauropods but like, i cant think of anything outside of massive growth times and thats terrifying no?

[tight oxide]

I mean for a normal sauropod being small is you at your weakest which i guess would balance mega herds of them

also dont be in open areas lol

sauropods might look like a small tree far away

also I dont think we have to worry for a growth time that long for magy

it will go 50 50 with cerato soo...

[limber hull]

why does everyone want ptera to be a mini quetz lmao

let ptera be a fisher why is this hard

[barren zephyr]

I need my living piece of paper to pick up this 90 kg juvenile carno

[limber hull]

thats exactly what's being asked and i do not understand it

if ptera is a fisher/scavenger/baby killer then why even add quetz

[barren zephyr]

at that point quetz would be redundant because it would be ptera that takes longer to grow

I mean sure you can make ptera kill babies

but picking them up and flying away with them is stupid

It’s feet aren’t made for picking things up

and it’s sure as hell not going to be able to pick anything up with its mouth

[limber hull]

i think they want it in the ptera's mouth, which is equally stupid

[barren zephyr]

what

[limber hull]

because a small raptor can latch onto ptera until it's above ptera's own weight, therefor ptera should be allowed to pick up and carry animals lighter than itself, even if those animals are well over half its weight

who cares about ptera's frail jaw and noodle neck amirite

[barren zephyr]

I don’t know why people can’t accept fisher ptera that can sometimes kill babies if it wants to

It’s a 45 minute grow

might as well make it kill apexes

[limber hull]

exactly, its like they picked up the fisher dino and went "hmmm, not enough PvP where my opponent can't fight back smh"

why do people actively want pteras killing things, it's never ever been fun to die to these fuckers

[barren zephyr]

Ptera was never really meant to be a threat anyways

it’s more like a seagull or a magpie

[limber hull]

yes, seagull, 100%

[barren zephyr]

a huge annoyance, but not deadly

[limber hull]

it should be stealing food and eating fish and screaming 90% of the time, you know, like a seagull

its very much a prehistoric seagull lmao

[manic flint]

At least Quetz would be able to spear juvies
Ptera weighs less than my damn math textbook
There is no reason it should pick things up

Quetz picking up juvies? Sure, it at least weighs 250kg

[tight oxide]

it really surprises me how light quetz is for its size

Makes sense though

[manic flint]

Yea
The things gotta fly
Despite it being the size of a giraffe

There are humans heavier than this guy

[tight oxide]

too bad that beak says death

[manic flint]

Quetz will get pinned lmao

[tight oxide]

I mean that beak stabbing power...

[manic flint]

Teno 1 shots this

[tight oxide]

lmao

legacy quetz waaaay stronger sadly

[manic flint]

It will be good at stabbing anything smaller than Utah/nova/Apollo raptor

[tight oxide]

quetz could be the ultimate glass canon ngl

[manic flint]

Imma just call it novaraptor

[manic flint]

Bane of all juvies

[tight oxide]

Lets all call it Novaraptor until devs do it too

[tight oxide]

When a juvie hears a quetz call in the distance...

[manic flint]

Dash into a jungle or down a burrow

If you're in the plains you are toast

[tight oxide]

I can counter pteras just by camping near rock and when they go in, they fall and i pounce em

[tight oxide]

juvies legit gonna be invading dyro burrows like its a tradition

just because of quetz

[manic flint]

I think that's cool

If some dryo's drive a juvie out of their burrow it just gets yoinked by the Quetz? That's awesome

[tight oxide]

legit juvie would be screaming "Please no! its so scary out there"

[barren zephyr]

is there a place here where i can ask for help if im stuck?

Im stuck on NA4 rn "swimming" next to a rock

[manic flint]

Relog

[stark dust]

https://tenor.com/view/he-is-speaking-guy-explaining-with-a-whiteboard-some-guy-explaining-gif-19593300

isle players talking about viability and balance issues here

[manic flint]

Lmao it's true though

I'm one of them

[limber hull]

boy i cant wait to die even after utilising my primary defence tool

how the fuck is a rex going to dig out a taco lmao

[outer sphinx]

well you see, i demand that rex kills everything by looking at it

[surreal flame]

@open mauve In response to your reply in the feedback channel, apex predators aren't going to be a solve-all implementation.
They won't stop herbis and carnivores from mixpacking, they won't always be around areas with large groups and they won't be there to stop every herbi from bodyguarding.
If anything, they will help with reducing the numbers of larger dinosaurs like the stego, but they aren't something that can fix those issues as a whole.

[barren zephyr]

Pretty sure there isn't any way to completely fix those apart from giving mix packing things a debuff for being around each other for too long

[surreal flame]

That's what my feedback was in regards to for the most part: #general-feedback message

[barren zephyr]

But again, mix packing does make sense with SOME herbivores.... I repeat SOME

[surreal flame]

I'm not referring to mixpacking between herbis

[barren zephyr]

Oh you mean carnivore and herbivore?

[surreal flame]

Yeah

[barren zephyr]

Yeah that's a whole different thing then

[surreal flame]

It was suggested in response to my feedback that apex predators would fix the issues I mentioned: #general-feedback message

[barren zephyr]

Could be that both herbs and carnis get a discomfort debuff. Making them unable to rest when too close to each other

Maybe even putting the dinos into a more alert state that causes their eating and swimming animations to stop midway as the Dino looks up to check on the nearby predators

[surreal flame]

I think that it would make the most sense for herbis to get some kind of panic response for being around carnivores for too long. The more carnivores/threat, the higher the panic goes up.
Carnivores could get the same if they are faced with a larger threat than they can handle - for example a single utah against a herd of 4 full adult stegos.
Herbivores shouldn't want to hang around carnivores and bodyguard. Bodies should cause restlessness and a need to move away from the area.
Carnivores on the other hand, need to be around those herbis to hunt and eat.

[outer sphinx]

thats the easiest way to increase the rate of griefing

now we have stegos going to nests/ food of dinos that are smaller and they get debuffed too

[barren zephyr]

Yeah that kinda goes well with what I said

[surreal flame]

Except that the panic response to being near a carnivore would be the resolve to that.

[outer sphinx]

now we have carnivores doing that

[surreal flame]

Not saying it's going to be a complete resolve but it beats the current system by a longshot. It would resolve the issue of herbivores and carnivores mixpacking which is what my main point was about.

And if there are nesting grounds, there are going to be carnivores going after the small and weak anyway. It's how things work in nature. If the group is big enough to defend their young, then they should have no issues. If they are nesting, the panic response could be adjusted to account for maternal instincts being more overwhelming than the need of self preservation.

That being said, that should only be implemented for when there are actual babies to defend, not just a nest with eggs to use as a way to get that paternal/maternal instinct.

[outer sphinx]

its just gonna make it worse, then we have carnis/ herbis going to the other or the smaller and just giving them a 24/7 debuff, they cant do anything about it, now we have dinos like utah that keep fights for a long time and they just debuffed bc they are hunting like they should, a debuff/panic/comfort system is the quickest way to make the game 10 times worse

and BoB is to show for it

[surreal flame]

What's made the game 10x worse already are the herbi/carni mixpackers who bodyguard when you already have to try and survive off of an already unsustainable diet. A panic system is only an example of what could be implemented to stop that. I feel like the game would be a lot better for it because as it currently stands, there are large groups of herbis bodyguarding for certain carnivores and killing anything else that's just trying to eat some of the bodies that are already there.

[outer sphinx]

bruh i just explained how its just giving more ammo to the fire, debuffs in such a game is the quickest way to increase griefing across the board

on paper it might look good but its def not gonna be, and BoB shows that, the system/ idea is flawed on many levels

[surreal flame]

So what would you suggest instead to cull the mixpacking herbis/carnis that ruin the game as it stands?

Leave them be to continue ruining the game?

I'm not saying the panic response would be an instant debuff. I'm suggesting that it builds over time.

[outer sphinx]

for one we need diets to be spread out evenly and hunger/food value to be fixed/ increased

and make the map viable for every creature

[surreal flame]

Okay but diets being spread isn't going to stop carni/herbi mixpacking groups or bodyguarding.

I do agree with you that diets need to be spread out and the map needs to be worked on further, but it doesn't pertain to the issue of groups like that.

[outer sphinx]

alright so lets take them 1 by one:
mixpacking and megaherds have the same root, are oftenly combined, and have the same idea of getting an advantage bc all of these are supported by the game rn

the root is how overtuned some creatures are, either by just outclassing everything or just bad balance, but the equaliy or more important aspect is how diets are spread out, rn all the diets you need are at oasis, thus making it very easy to mega/mixpack, you can have creatyres that need to eat more or more often or both but that whole part gets disregarded when all the food for the whole pack can be found in the same spot, also having oasis and a mudpool in the same spot adds to this

spreading diets would make the most impact on this, they can try to mix/megapack but when they have to split up every 20 min bc of the diets beeing in totaly dif biomes it becomes much harder and on the verge of useless, removing stuff like oasis/ shallow water untill more land based semi aquatics come like sucho or spino solves the water problem, drought would solve this too if it comes before more semi aquatics where shallow water has a limited time of usefullness

making creatures less bland and designing them to actually work only in certain biomes instead of using diets for that role, like carno is in no way good in a forest bc of its turn, this is how you make creatures stay in their biomes when you make it clear where they are effective, same for stego, it shouldnt be in no way good in forest as trees would stop its swings (which doesnt happen rn< a whole dig bucket of worms)

bodyguarding has its root in the same problem as mix/megapacking but it also exists bc of boredom as its usually stegos that do it as they are uncontested for the strongest dino on land, and the other is that grazing alows them to just sit there for a long time, so an idea would be that grazing, even when its limited to max 20%, each 5% grazed decreases your nutrient and thurst levels by 1-3% making it only used when on the move untill you reach our destination (diet or water) but ofc this would be once food/ hunger values are as garbage as they are rn bc another reason for mega/mixpacking is how fast you starve so you need to eat almost constantly (and we arent even an apex nor a god forbid strain) so mega/mixpacking aleviates that issue bc when you have either a dino for every scenario or just huge numbers or both you can just find all the food you want

another possible addition would be herbis having worse hunger than carnivores on avg as they dont have to hunt

[jovial crow]

@dusty swan tropeognathus could be the one, he is 8 m from wing to wing, ptera being 6m and Quetzal 10

[open mauve]

that actually sounds like a cool idea imo

while i understand what you are saying about the apex predators i think they should still add them at some point at least. T-Rex is like the face of any dinosaur related product everywhere, it's kinda weird if it's not in the game at all. Everything can be done within reason. I think playing T-Rex could be made super difficult by using several different mechanics, which could help the map being overpopulated by them

[outer sphinx]

rex, rn would have 2 outcomes, either is broken and just makes everything worse is just dies bc stego is the only thing it could hunt

[limber hull]

either way it sucks

apex carnivores need a plethora of apex/large herbivores to survive

[outer sphinx]

yep

[open mauve]

ofc it shouldn't be the next one they add i agree, but the game does need some more strong carnivores right now. Since nothing is stopping herbies from ganging up, being a carno (especially if you are alone) right now is just completely pointless and more annoying than it is fun to play. It's hunger is completely messed up too. It's like an american muscle driving from one gas station to the other. My point about apexes was about the power balance being upset at the moment. If you wanna actually have fun and stay alive in this game then you have to play a herbivore.

[jovial crow]

An apex herbivore like trike should be enough for a long time

[outer sphinx]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/423939730544132096/935133051808251955 i did just point out every problem rn and how to solve them...

[open mauve]

a trike would be awesome too, it would definitely be one of my favorites but at the moment they should focus on carnivores in my opinion

[surreal flame]

We're talking about mixpacking herbi/carni groups specifically in this situation. When it comes to large groups of herbivores only that's a different scenario because in nature herbivores can often be found in large groups of different species to make a megaherd. It depends on the species of course, but it's still an occurrence in nature. Carnivores and herbivores on the other hand are not commonly seen getting along like the best of friends, nor are herbivores seen defending something near them that's dead for their carnivore friends. My issue is with these specific groups. I mentioned in my feedback - linked above at the start of this conversation - having 5 full grown stegos and 3 tenos chasing you off of any and every body around for a full grown deino. This is something that ruins the game entirely. Regardless of if it's just a group of stegos hanging out with a carnivore, or a group of mixed herbis hanging out with carnivores, it's still an issue of herbis and carnis mixpacking.

Spreading out the diet items is something that would help reduce the issue at best but it will not resolve the issue, especially if you're talking about increasing the food values as you mentioned above. Having to look for food all the time or all over the place shouldn't be something that counts as a resolve for the issue of carnivores and herbivores mixpacking and helping each other. Where there aren't diet item dinosaurs for carnivores, there will be AI for carnivores to eat which will allow for these types of mixpacking groups.

Diet items being spread out to the point where people have to spend their entire time going out for food every 20 minutes would also make the game even more about finding diet items only and not actually enjoying the game for anything else. It already feels like the only focus of the game is to find diet food. There's already rarely a time to stop and relax, explore or enjoy the game in any other way.

Having certain biomes in place for dinosaurs would only work to an extent. Let's say you have stegos fitting a tropical biome and utahs fitting a more arid biome - just an example not necessarily accurate. The utah has stego on its diet, so it needs to go to the tropical zone to find stego. What's to say the stegos won't help their utah friend out and kill a stego they don't know to feed the utah? Stegos have been known to kill other stegos, and if food is harder to find, what's stopping stegos from defending that food and feeding the utah at the same time?

If there is a system in place to stop bodyguarding herbivores then that solves the issue of bodyguarding. When it comes to carnivores it's an entirely different playing field. Carnivores will guard bodies because they need them to eat. Herbivores do not. Giving herbivores some kind of anxiety over being around a body makes perfect sense because it means something killed something else and it should be avoided.

[jovial crow]

Carnivores dont really need to hunt Everyday, it is the other way, herbivores do need to eat all the time

[open mauve]

i agree but at the moment it is the exact opposite.

[jovial crow]

Thats what I'm pointing out

[open mauve]

you can easily grow a max teno with only filling up all your vitamins twice during the growth period.

[open mauve]

yeah, i understand 🙂

[echo tiger]

Except carno needs to hunt every few minutes or it starves

[jovial crow]

I'm sure ypu already know It but carnivores only need to eat some kg of meat everytime in a while, but herbivores like stego had to eat tons of plants each day

[jovial crow]

That was what I was refering to

[surreal flame]

I agree that they should add apexes but I think they need to add more smaller and mid-tier carnivores and herbivores first

[jovial crow]

If they remove stego people will stop asking for apex carnivores

[surreal flame]

They need to remove stego until there are apexes to counter them imo

[jovial crow]

That is exactly what I meant

[surreal flame]

A kentro would be a better fit to Evrima as it currently stands

[jovial crow]

Something between teno and stego

Tenos are the herbivore equal of carno, it shouldnt be but it is due to bad balance

Styracosaurus would be the perfect herbivore to compete with carno in my opinion, similiar lenght to teno but heavier and stronger

[open mauve]

I still think that something could be done with making the carnivores lives a bit easier and more fun without removing or nerfing the stegos. I wouldn't mind the stegos if i could find food elsewhere as a carno but right now it is nearly impossible to not starve to death. I have always preferred playing as a carnivore, it's more exciting to me. Only recently have I started playing with herbivores and rn I would say that playing a herbivore is much more fun because you don't have the constant struggle of keeping your stomach full.

[surreal flame]

I agree with you there

[jovial crow]

Hunger is the real problem, a 1,8 ton carno has to eat every 2 mins while the 6 ton stego can chill for 30 mins

[surreal flame]

The problem is that stegos will always be able to make carnivore lives difficult when not even the top predator in game currently can counter them. Until they have something that is evenly matched to them, they can do what they want without much consequence. I think that stego should be removed temporarily for this reason, not permanently.

[surreal flame]

Not to mention a full carno with an empty stomach can eat another full carno, finish the body and still be hungry

[tight oxide]

What

[surreal flame]

Yeah

[tight oxide]

Carno has a void belly?

[surreal flame]

A full grown carno can eat another full grown carno when their hunger is on red and still be hungry afterwards.

[open mauve]

I understand your point but if you could survive as a carno by eating something else then you could just stay away from stegos and let them be and do their own thing. A carno has no business fighting a stego anyway. Plus every land carnivore is much more mobile than a stego so you shouldn't have a problem with stegos roaming the lands to find some carnos asses to beat. I think the problem is rooted elsewhere, mainly it's ridiculous hunger right now and not enough AI etc

[tight oxide]

Bruh

[surreal flame]

That's true, but even still, stegos shouldn't be in Evrima as it currently stands.

[patent flower]

The problem with stegos is that they have such a wide attack range without any big downsides to it that it's nigh impossible to get an attack angle on it or really being able to punish it. Either the recovery time of the tail attack gets increased to which one can run in and out of its range untile the next attack is possible or the attack range gets cut down so that the stego has to move about 30 45 degrees to be able to attack the spot its front body is at.

[jovial crow]

The problem with that is that most herbirores are near stegos or big packs of it's own

[surreal flame]

Exactly. The stego is 100% a problem at the moment.

[tight oxide]

Did qa just not notice? Or...

[surreal flame]

I gave my feedback regarding this issue during QA for the diet system and nothing was mentioned so.

I'm not the only one who mentioned an issue with the hunger levels of the carno either.

[outer sphinx]

2nd-3rd paragraph:
increase food values and hunger, yes, but also gave a nerf to grazing, and AI should in no way be able to feed anything larger than a juvie or small tier, and in general diets beeing hard to maintain, especially for growing, and once elders and perks come you will want to keep a good diet, also to add, some of the changes i gave in my comment would indirectly help a bit with the carni- herbi scenario, other than on avg herbis have worse hunger than carnis, if neither can be kept fed as easily bc diets will actually be hard to keep and you need to move to get them (which is literally the whole root of this) you saw much less mix packing before u4 for the sole reason food was spread across the map and would not be infinite, megaherds back then where more or less bc we didnt have diets but with this iteration of diets neither are fixed or even improoved
and thats why i said to increase hunger across the board, bc rn its by every way stupuid how little food carnis get and how fast you starve and get thirst in general, exploration/ relaxation is killed by this, putting some form of food in every spot of the map would solve this, maybe not as every creature but depending on your playable there will be some food in at least some interesting spots to explore and AI spawn across the board/ should but not able to feed anything bigger than a dilo for ex
4th paragraph:
for one thats scavanging what you described there, and by all means there should be competition between multiple let say groups of stegos over food if the quantity is low but utah (or non scavangers) would get no use if they get there to late, and if the stego lets them get close, thats all normal, maybe you're fine with letting them get close bc they just want to eat thet body as its lets say in their diet but you might not let them get close untill you are finished with your food and leave thus making the body useless for them, thats nature

and i just described the issue of body guarding, a combination of diets, grazing and no competition for stegos spot

[jovial crow]

Nerf grazing? Grazing does obsolutely nothint, I run out of food faster

[limber hull]

tenos were meant to be the herbi equal to carno lmao

[outer sphinx]

it allows body guarding to be much easier, as its usually adult stegos they dont care about growth and the other nerfs do jack shit to them, so they can stay on a body and keep their food at a forever 20% and cant be contested as the largest land dino

[open mauve]

true but if herbies were hungrier and their food sources were more scattered then it might not be a problem. Right now they can gang up because you can pretty much find all food sources for any herbivore near oasis

[outer sphinx]

and once diets become needed for perks and elder and spread out, if those dont solve body guarding grazing most likely would

[jovial crow]

Well, they can do What they want in their game, but a real teno is no threat to a carno

[limber hull]

okay but this is clearly fictionalised so why make that argument

[tight oxide]

We dont do real here

[patent flower]

Secondly the hunger values of the herbivores get in the way of the diet system and prevents them from really moving around. Herbivores diet gain right now is low risk high reward. Carnis has always been high risk high reward compared to that. But people still complain about carnis having it to easy finding foo, why is that? Well that's easy to explain. If you don't let the big carnis eat a lot of dead bodies are gonna be laying around where smaller dinos can more easily sneak up to and steal a bight. So infact herbivore players are just shooting themselves in the leg.

[jovial crow]

I said before herbivores should be hungrier than carnivores

[limber hull]

they probably are, you just can't tell

[open mauve]

i know, i agree. It would be more realistic too. A tiger for example in real life can eat something like 45kg meat in one sitting and then sleep around for the next 2 days or so.

[jovial crow]

Obviously, but that is not the problem

[surreal flame]

That would depend on the AI though. They have plans to bring back teno AI for example, which would feed more than juvies and fresh spawns. And again, making the whole game about finding diet food also sucks the fun out of the game. The game should be about more than just having to find diet food constantly and without pause. But then increasing the length of time that diet foods last or raising hunger or anything along those lines would continue to cause the issue that I originally brought up with herbivores and carnivores being able to group up. Making players walk around and find food, rinse and repeat to stop them from sitting and bodyguarding is more a bandaid than a solution to the issue. Implementing a negative effect for herbis hanging around a carnivore or some kind of death for too long would solve the issue.

[jovial crow]

Also, herbivores only need the growth diet buff, but in for example in a carno, the 30% stam regen makes a huge difference

[outer sphinx]

i mean my view on Dino AI is very negative, it should not exists if it larger than dryo, proto etc ambient AI solvest he dino AI problem and gives the same effect

[limber hull]

i'd imagine a 30% stam regen would be amazing for a stego or teno lmao

[surreal flame]

Whether your view on dino AI is negative or not doesn't change the fact that they will be a part in the game and doesn't change my point

[jovial crow]

It's called the diet update for a reason, the only thing you can do and have to do to survive is eating all the fucking time lol

[outer sphinx]

also when did they say they are planning to bring back teno AI, last i remember them talking about AI was in a devblog where they where reimagining the role of AI for the game

[jovial crow]

Hunger should be syncronize with the time pace in-game

[surreal flame]

I get that, but even still, the game used to be enjoyable and about more than just finding food every second of the time you play. I'm not saying the diet system is entirely bad but there needs to be more than just finding diet items to survive to make the game fun.

[surreal flame]

They said they were reworking the dino AI

[jovial crow]

I know, I was just saying what devs probably want the diet update to be

[surreal flame]

Ah okay, I get you

[outer sphinx]

ye that doesnt mean they are bringing teno AI, bc i would guess the reason they mentioned that is the large negativity towards dino AI (or more correctly large dino AI)

[jovial crow]

What do you think about the fact that we might not get a new playable in 1 year if the update pace is the same as 2021?

[surreal flame]

It doesn't mean they're definitely not bringing it back either and it doesn't mean that AI is only going to be there to feed juvies

[outer sphinx]

well yes it doesnt mean anything untill further confirmations, thast the idea, i just gave the reason why they mentioned it, we cant see the future

[surreal flame]

True

[outer sphinx]

all we know is that they are reworking the role of AI in the game

[limber hull]

dino AI cringe honestly

frankly

[outer sphinx]

if its bigger than dryo, yes

[limber hull]

if its not compy, yes

[patent flower]

It would be nice if they implemented AI herbies as herds that wander from one feeding place to the other instead of single spawns here and their. would make the map feel more alive.

[limber hull]

i dislike the invalidation of small tiers by making them just AI

if we want small sized food items, we literally have animal AI

[jovial crow]

The whole role of ai is making the island feel more alive and feeding carnivores

[limber hull]

which it can do easily without being dinosaurs

[outer sphinx]

i mean i'd be fine if its dryo or smaller but i'd like it even more if they just double down on ambient AI

[surreal flame]

We should be getting troodon some time soon, but time will tell

[outer sphinx]

also could just be oro/velo bc those 2 guys really have nothing rn

[limber hull]

but why then? it just seems redundant to add small-sized food item animals then add dino AI of animals with similar sizes

[jovial crow]

Yes, but it is a dinosaur game, and yes, I know they live in human time, but players want to hunt other dinos, not damn deers and boars

[surreal flame]

They needed to keep dryo AI in because it's on the utah diet and rarely anyone plays dryo or hypsi, so for one nutrient, the utah has to find deino most of the time.

[outer sphinx]

read my other comment, oro and velo have nothing and i'd be fine with them just beeing AI, but i alos like the idea of making them tutorial dinos that you can choose/ use untill you select a dif dino

[surreal flame]

Either that or to put something like rabbit, goat or deer on that nutrient list.

[jovial crow]

Update 6, so 1 year with 2021 update pacing

[limber hull]

i do want to hunt other dinos, which is why i hate dino AI.

when my other dino is a braindead AI with easy counterplay and holes in its programming, its no longer a fight, it's "how well can i exploit this thing to get food easily". It completely detracts from the fun of hunting other dinos in the first place

[outer sphinx]

and now instead of oh a trike* it will just be oh an AI, aight wait a sec gotta kill it
AI will never fill that void

[surreal flame]

True. They are most likely doing a revision on the roster some time soon though.

[jovial crow]

So you prefer brainded actual animals than brain dead dinos?

[outer sphinx]

AI has problems to make believable humasn in games where its more openworld, nontheless an animal controlled by a player

[limber hull]

and "it'll get better" is a rich statement since you CANNOT create an AI meant to control a player-controlled entity and not have it miss out on player behaviours and ways of playing

[limber hull]

yes. The ambient AI is a blank slate to make AI exactly how they wish. No need to make it "seem like a player", it's behaviours can be specific to it as an AI without trying and failing to emulate human play

[jovial crow]

But is the same thing with the actual ai, and they are not dinos

[outer sphinx]

yes bc one doesnt invalidate the existance of a playable dino, and doesnt lessen the experience

[limber hull]

this is also a very valid point

[outer sphinx]

ambient AI can do everything dino AI is supposed to do without the 2 glarring negatives

[surreal flame]

I was talking about the roster and playables for what you responded to?

[jovial crow]

Then we have the problem of the pklayer cap, 100 player is nothing with only a quarter of the map, even 1000 player would be too little for the whole map

[limber hull]

what?

that's quite the stretch

[jovial crow]

Oh, I didn't knew I was responding to that

[outer sphinx]

you heavily underestimate how many 1000 players are, with 60 playables max thats.... 16 individuals for each species

[surreal flame]

Which message were you referring to?

[jovial crow]

I dont have the will to look for the comment

[surreal flame]

Or was it for the conversation in general?

Fair

[jovial crow]

No, I wanted to respond to a comment, but I responded to yours accidentally

[surreal flame]

Ahh okay, all good

[open mauve]

rn the biggest problem with ai is that there is not enough.

[jovial crow]

The point is that with 100 players the game will feel like you are the only dino and everything else are actual time animals

Also small dino ai seems stupid to me

[outer sphinx]

thats why they are working on a smaller map, and maybe increasing slots to 200 once that becomes a viable solution

[jovial crow]

Yeah but the small map is not supposed to be the main map, and my opinion small map is boring and I would prefer a big map with a big amount of players, but with actual tech 1000 players is impossible and also devs dont want it

[open mauve]

i agree, i like the big map. Ofc it would be nice if it was more densely populated but it is what it is. Hopefully if a smaller map comes then it will be an addition not a replacement.

[outer sphinx]

they said they want to make a lot of maps so there will be no main map, also this map has 2 outcomes, either scrapped or reworked entierly bc its just to borked to be usable rn

[limber hull]

60km/hr utah outrunning carnos and the entire roster like no tomorrow lessgo

[orchid crescent]

@limber hull Please point out my mistakes to me 😄

ah. ok, see

[tepid gate]

I mean... the issue is Utahraptor being the fastest animal in the game and running faster than Carnotaurus

[orchid crescent]

No, you're wrong!

[tepid gate]

not to mention game seemingly worked much worse when animal were that fast, there's a reason why every animal is slower than they used to be and not one of them reaches 60km/h

[orchid crescent]

Carnotaurus - around 60 kilometers per hour, and Utah - about 45

[tepid gate]

I'm not sure if you're proposing those speeds or if you are saying that those are the current speeds in the game, because if it's the latter then you're wrong

[orchid crescent]

No, these are the current speeds, I can prove with screenshots

1 min pls

[tepid gate]

They are not

Carno never ran 65km/h

Utah runs 46.8km/h

Carno runs ~55km/h or something along those lines

[lavish quail]

Why Aken.

Why do you know this of the top of your head

[orchid crescent]

now, 1 min

[tepid gate]

I'm decently good with remembering numbers

[orchid crescent]

already in game

Utah

[lavish quail]

I don’t like anything on the current roster other than dryo tbh

[tepid gate]

Yes - 46.8km/h as I said above

[tepid gate]

^

[lavish quail]

The combat feels so ass as of right now. Only because the interactions are basically scripted.

[orchid crescent]

carno

[tepid gate]

@orchid crescent^

I told you

it doesn't run 65km/h

It never did

The fastest it went was 61.7 as a full adult, it could reach ~63km/h as a sub

[lavish quail]

That charge speed though

Also where is my finished dryo

[orchid crescent]

Sorry for my mistake

[tepid gate]

It's fine, I'm just saying - Utah shouldn't be running 60km/h

it did at one point and it ended up teleporting all over the place

[orchid crescent]

In any case, in nature, the utahraptor could reach up to 60-70 kilometers

[tepid gate]

Carno when it ran at 60km/h ended up teleporting too

Idk about the animal that we have in the game but

irl Utah ran at a speed of ~30km/h

It wasn't a fast animal and it didn't look like it does in the game

it was a polar-bear sized giant ground hawk with relatively short legs that just wasn't that adapted to running fast

[orchid crescent]

Everyone's speed was cut due to technical problems, I think in the future utahraptors will be faster than the current state

The Utahraptors from EVRIMA are very similar to the velociraptors from the Jurassic World

[tepid gate]

Velociraptors from the Jurassic World are not real animal either, they are not at all comparable to real-life Velociraptor just like our Utahraptor is not comparable to its real-life counterpart.

[orchid crescent]

I know, but the model is very beautiful

And since they imitate them, then you can start from the characteristics of Velociraptors from the film

[barren zephyr]

Eh

Yes, they have some similarities but mainly in regards to hands and cranial anatomy

[orchid crescent]

For example, in the film it was said about the acceleration of reports to 70 kilometers when hungry, and what we have at the start of EVRIMA (the first version), utahraptors 70-plus kilometers

[barren zephyr]

The movie saying about the raptor's speed is likely BS

I mean it realistically couldnt pull off such feats, not even with the film's version

[orchid crescent]

Old utahraptor characteristics

[jovial crow]

Dinos characteristics are the ones devs want them to be

[barren zephyr]

ah ok so you were talking about stats

the current utah speed is okay-ish i suppose, but to have that sort of speed it needs some stamina reduction for certain

[orchid crescent]

According to the developers, they can't do the correct work of the animation of the tail, body, and so on, this also became part of the reason for slowing down all the dynos

[barren zephyr]

Utahraptor shouldnt be threat free, either

I mean seeing how a pack of raptors can murder an adult Carnotaur with relative ease, I guess a single raptor being murked by a carno is fair

[orchid crescent]

I believe that in the future, when they are able to cope with the problem of animations, they will be able to do the speeds that they planned or are planning for a great balance.

[barren zephyr]

the thing is that the animations still sorta push the actual biomechanical limits of the animals though.

Its hard to make a tiger-sized raptor run at 70 km/h, because its largely unrealistic

[orchid crescent]

Yes, I think so too, I'm just tired of running away from a pack of carnotaurs in zigzags, when the latter can punish you in the tail and you will die stupidly

[barren zephyr]

A tiger can only pull off 65 km/h at most, and not for a long time as it relies on surprise rather than endurance to kill prey

Utah's current running pace is rather reasonable

[signal beacon]

70kph is way to much for utah. It would be impossible to hit the lil fucker

[orchid crescent]

I agree with you! It's a pity that I won't see fast utahraptors, but maybe it's for the best

[tepid gate]

It's definitely for the best, the game was borderline unplayable when everything moved that fast

[orchid crescent]

Therefore, utahraptors in the first version of EVRIMA could easily kill inexperienced tenonto xD

[tepid gate]

a friend of mine said that he was getting a headache just looking at it with how fast the animals moved and they did so constantly

considering the limitations of the internet and so on as well as the fact that the game is a multiplayer experience it was absolutely cancerous to have everything move at such speed

[orchid crescent]

Yes, you're right!

Perhaps we can end on this note :D

[haughty folio]

The game freaks the fuck out when anything runs over 60kph, and you want Utah to run at 70???

Hell, Carno's most recent nerfs put its max speed at something like 58 kph, after which it slows down to 55.5

[orchid crescent]

Yes, so if you want to kill carnot in an open field, it's better to stock up on a large pack, because the chance to make a dash and escape is extremely small

[urban flax]

I think the fact a single Utah can't take on a carno in fields is kinda intended

[orchid crescent]

Yes, even two utahraptors will make a rush, and then, when 40% of the stamina remains, they run away, running from side to side, there is a great chance of being eaten

So this problem will be saved either by adding 1-2 km per hour to the ute or by a large online to recruit large flocks

I'd rather choose the second option

[signal beacon]

@sonic mural that already happens

[sage crescent]

Blood dome

[outer sphinx]

@signal beacon is that just a reversal of one of my ideas i made some time ago?

[signal beacon]

Huh?

[outer sphinx]

your styraco dibble comment

[signal beacon]

Did you say that before? I have shitty memory

[outer sphinx]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/423939730544132096/934154258780160071 found it lol

my latest iteration of it as when i came up with the idea was like 14th januarry

[signal beacon]

Ah. Yea I thought I heard it somewhere but I could remember for the life of me where

[outer sphinx]

i was reading that like this sounds like i heard it before lmao

tho my idea had the roles reversed, dibble parys and styraco was the lance

had a real deja' vu

[signal beacon]

I can just picture an allo running up to a dibble only for it to start getting its frill shoved into its face for hours on end until the allo just, cant fight

[signal beacon]

Bro I hate deja'vu. It feels like a mini existential crisis

[manic flint]

It can't bite the frill so tries to get around and after a while gets to tired and gets gored

Styraco just pokes you like sephiroth in smash bros

[signal beacon]

Dibble: I spend hours fighting my opponent head on.

Styraco: haha big spike

Tf is that guy spelling?

[manic flint]

?

[outer sphinx]

Look hard to laptop/computer (?)

[signal beacon]

He is speaking another fuckin language

[lyric spoke]

I honestly don't understand the massive hatred carnos get

[paper oriole]

its probably because of their nonstop spam broadcasting and the fact that they seemed to be the most common foliage hack users

[limber hull]

yea that'll probably be the reasons

[paper oriole]

once something like allo arrives that also has an obnoxiously loud broadcast there will be another thing to hate for that reason

[tepid gate]

@fallen cargo That's been a thing since... the beginning of Evrima. There's a video of update 1 Tenonto mass murdering a bunch of Rocktahs because the hitbox of the tailslam caught them and they just died the moment Tenonto started slamming the tail.

Unlike what was stated during the recode you absolutely can hit things through walls and other obstacles.

[lyric spoke]

I was thinking that lmao

[limber hull]

yea

[fallen cargo]

I know it's nothing new, but why is it still a thing? Ig it could be a bit difficult to code but like, they could also make the rocks taller or wider to prevent that from happening...I'm just surprised it's still an issue

[tepid gate]

I honestly don't like the idea of there being a perfectly safe spot that someone can camp for a lengthy time absolutely untouchable to pretty much the entire roster so I don't view that as much of a problem, the main issue with the fact that it's possible to attack through walls is to me the fact that Stegosaurus(and Tenontosaurus to a lesser extent) can abuse that by camping places where a carnivore going after them has a high chance of getting stuck between the trees and other objects while they attack it through those objects.

[limber hull]

i mean, the smaller animals having locales where they can hide from larger animals, be it a small cave or high place sounds fair honestly. They have to emerge eventually

[tepid gate]

I'd be fine-ish with that but I'd prefer if those hiding spots had multiple entrances and exits and were destructible.

[outer sphinx]

that'd be the best way

[dusk wagon]

thanks

@barren zephyr You must be fun at parties. I MEAN NO DISRESPECT LIKE I WISH I COULD THINK LIKE YOU AND GIVE SO MANY AMAZING ARGUMENTS LEGIT THERE'S NOT A SINGLE THING I CAN MAKE FUN OF BY HOW PERFECTLY YOU WORDED A L L OF THE GAMES PROBLEMS-

WE NEED MORE SMART AND RATIONAL PEOPLE LIKE THIS

[barren zephyr]

Thank you

[frigid sierra]

Some people need to understand that feedback ≠ suggestion

[outer sphinx]

beating a dead horse only does so much

[lavish quail]

I mean in theory

So much could be creating a nuclear bomb

But I’m only saying this because I dunno what you mean

[limber hull]

Cerato, Sucho and Bary aren’t Carno competition. Carno would stomp a bary and a cera most of the time if they try to fight it in its natural habitat and sucho is far too slow to scare a carno

[outer sphinx]

oh no, a sucho, what am i to do, oh yea i just run the other way

[barren zephyr]

They can only do so much when it comes to making things behave how they might have in real life. You have to remember this is a game where human beings are playing as dinosaurs. For example would a stego randomly guard a body just be troll towards a Utah in real life? Probably not.

[outer sphinx]

and thats where smart game design comes into play, smth we have basically none off rn

[barren zephyr]

So they have to keep that in mind when making and balancing the dinos stats. Cerato very well could end up being a competitor towards carno when it comes out

[outer sphinx]

by the time cerato comes diets and AI might be good and then cera will live predominantly in forests and water biomes and if either or try to fight the other in their respective bioems they would be at a disatvantage

[barren zephyr]

Diets won't be good until we get a better map

the one we have currently sucks

so you might be waiting for a quite a while before the diet system works as intended

[outer sphinx]

this map rn has nothing to do with diets rn, its how diets have used the map thats is bad, the map sucks dont get me wrong but its not the maps fault that diets have been placed so stupid

also Jace has been working on smth for some time so we have smth to look out for down the line

[barren zephyr]

The map plays a big role in the diets. If the map sucks and biomes aren't placed well which they currently aren't then it doesn't matter where you place the diets

[outer sphinx]

the map is bad but spreading diets will def help a lot with the probolems, plsu this map is either getting scrapped or just revamped from the ground up, everybody including the devs know how much of a mess it is

[barren zephyr]

I think we just need a new map I agree

Spreading it out might help but its just going to put a band aid on a much bigger problem

[outer sphinx]

i mean a huge rework would basically mean a new map

[barren zephyr]

maybe in Evrima 2 we will get the new map. Can't wait for the 2d Hope trailer lmao

[outer sphinx]

oh well def, but spreading the diets solves this issue but the map has many other issues rn and very likely gonna have in the future, like how it doesnt support small life, crocs etc

[outer sphinx]

nah by then its gonna be 6d

[barren zephyr]

I guess we will just have to see how it plays out. Letting someone who knows how to makes maps and specializes in it would be a good start.

[outer sphinx]

ye, thats Jace, we know he's been working on something secret for some time now

[barren zephyr]

Idk if I will get in trouble for calling him out so I will just call him you know who but letting Jace do it instead of you know who might get us better results on a map lol

[outer sphinx]

Jace is the level designer btw, he barely worked on this map

[barren zephyr]

I know

the poor guy came in and has to re work everything

[outer sphinx]

i mean everyone even the devs accept that this map is a failure but the little work Jace has done on this map was great so who knows what a full work of his might turn out like

[barren zephyr]

Some of the work he has done already looks incredible and Im excited to see what else he can do

How much you wannna bet its the smaller map they mentioned they wanted to make lol. The new Thenyaw basically

As long as its well done Id be fine with that

[outer sphinx]

highly likely, plus they said they want to make a lot of maps, and confirmed a desert one

[barren zephyr]

Hey more maps means more things to explore and keeps the gameplay fresh Im totally ok with that

[outer sphinx]

Jace, the lord and saviour lmao

[barren zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/comedy-waynes-world-you-are-the-master-worship-bow-gif-17398753

[outer sphinx]

maybe that allows server to change the maps like weekly or smth, and a dif idea i just got to help with the roster, with each map some dinos work better for that map than the other so with a weekly rotating map people will want to play another dino as it could be more optimal than their current dino, this is a dif idea to splitting the roster to be tied to a map

[barren zephyr]

That would be interesting. I don't think everyone would be a fan of that though especially if getting to elder takes a long time

[outer sphinx]

could be a month or more but the idea, you can keep playing as your dino even after the reset but you can choose to choose a dif one or keep playing, and the idea is to have multiple servers, so have a dino grown on to elder on one server and just waiting for the reset when its a map where its viable and in the time beeing you go to a dif server

make people want to try out dif dinos, makes some dino viable in a natural way etc

so for desert map there would be a lot more carnos and dinos that can go without water for long (usually smalls), then a more swampy map where semi aquatics are more popular etc, not enough to invalidade most dinos but help minorities

and bc as humans/ players we want the easiest time/ most optimal choice

same for humans, they needto be able to work on every map but on some you have a better time, maybe on one map you can find more salvage, take a bit and use it when the next roation comes, but some thing would need to be done about base building/ defending for humans

[jovial crow]

@lament pecan the one dino that need a rival is stego not carno

[static plover]

hello , i don't see a help page but i just got The Isle and i can't seem to find servers? i'm kinda lost and even but i did go to the server list in the steam view finder but even then i couldn't connect to any servers because most to all of them are Evrima? i'm kinda lost if anyone could help me that would be amazing

[barren zephyr]

Spawncamping can be remedied by simply picking a different spawn

[barren zephyr]

#🔧-evrima-troubleshooting-🔧 or #🔧-legacy-troubleshooting-🔧

[barren zephyr]

I feel like if the plants stood out more that would also help tremendously when trying to find them, the fact a lot of them blend with with every other plant makes things extremely difficult

I could be directly over a food plant, and still not know because it looks very close to any other plant. We shouldn’t have to rely solely on scent to be able to find food 2 feet in front of you

[outer sphinx]

@signal beacon rhino is prob gonna be 4.2t (using Novas charts)

[signal beacon]

I wanted to annihilate rex legs ):

[dusty swan]

sorry for late response but that was one I was thinking, that or thalassodromeus or zhengjiangotperus, all 3 seem like they could have a unique niche while competing with pteranodon

@jovial crow

[wicked osprey]

man i sure love losing my dino to fatal errors during fights

[echo tiger]

man i sure love this game in general

[wicked osprey]

man i sure love getting leg fracture when i get headbutted in the tail

[echo tiger]

I love fucking dying to a botched hitbox and spending 5 hours just trying to grow

but dinos are cannibaloiding

[stray holly]

@lost marsh not liable when you’re a Utah trying to grab your baby to hop on a rock to escape a carno that you can see coming.

Just do the same thing where you have to be in a group, and the person can just hit g to pick you up.

No 5s delay bullshit.

[lost marsh]

i mean 5s for the pickup to go off

so people wont be able to pick the baby 1 hour later

like, u get 5s to use your G, if surpass the time, you wont be able to pick him

would be abusive if there wasnt time

[stray holly]

How would it be abusive if it can only be people in your group.

[dusk wagon]

kinda feel like that when nesting is a thing, this would be really handy for Deinosuchus, since modern day crocodilians do this with their babies

[stray holly]

Yeah they’d be able to carry like 5 at a time if I was doin it

[icy lion]

@pulsar smelt Teno's male color is black

[signal beacon]

Isn't that the opposite of what Crest colors should be?

[paper oriole]

It would be nice if their black markings were more pronounced, considering how insignificant the difference is from the female's brown or whatever

[tepid gate]

@dapper mirage oh that aint just Tenonto and Carno, this little thing can do that with Stego and Deino too

(it's just that nobody really tries to fight them as a Pachy cause you know... too much hp to go through)

[paper oriole]

Pachy should only counter things below to a little over its weight its kinda silly seeing it parry something 4+ times its size like an anime protagonist lmao

[tepid gate]

It's almost certainly a bug, one that was supposed to be fixed during the mechanic test

[dapper mirage]

muh smol tier herbie uwu

[paper oriole]

Pachy is the main character

[tepid gate]

Idk how it made it to the live build but things happened I guess

[paper oriole]

Everybody else is just a side character

[tepid gate]

it's not so much that it parries

[dapper mirage]

was playing carno today

rammed a pachy

[tepid gate]

it just cancels the attacks of things, they don't register if you attack at the right moment

[dapper mirage]

bit it square on the body FOUR TIMES

AFTER A RAM

[paper oriole]

Cancelling an attack, parrying, close enough

[dapper mirage]

the fucker LIVED

[tepid gate]

yea close enough I guess

it looks really comical with Deino and Stego

[dapper mirage]

i dont even know how, when i say i was hitting it on the body i mean it cuz it was knocked down lol

[tepid gate]

they are in the middle of their attack and suddenly they just wake up and stand straight

[paper oriole]

Even if it can reduce the damage it sustains by ‘parrying’ against large animals it shouldnt just totally negate the consequences of getting hit by something at or over 4x your weight

[dapper mirage]

does anyone else notice the huge double standard people have between carno's charge and pachy's charge

[paper oriole]

If it tries to parry a ram or a tail slam he should at least still suffer some damage and a stagger

[dapper mirage]

carno isnt allowed to stun anything slightly bigger than it but pachy is allowed to stun things exponentially larger

[paper oriole]

Pachy is a ninja too

[dapper mirage]

i understand muh dome head but you cannot be THAT biased

[paper oriole]

A strong charge is fine but it should make some noise lol

[dapper mirage]

i mean come on now

[tepid gate]

And rightly so, Carno shouldn't be stunning anything

[dapper mirage]

dude true

[tepid gate]

it's Pachy that's overtuned out of the two

I don't want Carno to be going after bigger things

[dapper mirage]

carno shouldnt stun utahs

oh wait i thought u were being sarcastic

dear god you want to remove the knockdown??? what????

[tepid gate]

oh no, I mean that it shouldn't be allowed to stun things larger than itself

e.g. a Sucho or Stego should just stand there looking at a charging Carno with an expression "do you want to die?"

[paper oriole]

I wish that carno could hit a combo on small animals with charge to yeet them if it wants. Like hitting another button with the charge

[dapper mirage]

i dont see the issue with stunning things larger so long as all animals follow the same sets of rules

[dapper mirage]

headswing

[tepid gate]

I'd like it if Carno could have an additional attack that lets it pin down smaller animals and maul them to finish them off if they got knocked down

[paper oriole]

If it could combine a new headswing attack and its charge in one unique attack to just yeet small animals i might actually play carno

[dapper mirage]

pachy tries to run up on you
sweeps with headswing
pachys stay losing

notice some people do not want a new carno attack though, because they want it to stay so it can only spam a weak bite and charge in a straight line

[paper oriole]

Carnis need more attacks rather than herbis needing hard nerfs

[dapper mirage]

true

buffing is always better

[paper oriole]

We have two brawler herbis, but then we have an ambush hunter and an endurance bleeder who are both ine trick ponies

[tepid gate]

I mean as much as it would be neat to have some more attacks that could do different things some herbivores just need nerfs

Tenonto simply has absolutely no right to keep the damage it has right now

[paper oriole]

I understand brawlers should be more versatile than average but a bit of variety for utah and carno abilities wouldnt hurt

[dapper mirage]

stego and pachy specifically but all pachy needs is a mobility nerf and a charge that isnt inpennetrable by attacks

[tepid gate]

This damage-output was set up with all the smaller animals having higher health pools

it's just not set up against the current roster

[dapper mirage]

im going to keep saying it but thank weight=health for that

[tepid gate]

weight=health is a good thing

it's Tenonto having 360 damage on one of its attacks that is the issue

[dapper mirage]

so are you saying nerf that?

[tepid gate]

it's really not some rocket science

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying

[dapper mirage]

and make the gap between larges and smalls even wider???

because thats EXACTLY why legacy was terrible

[tepid gate]

That's just completely wrong

[dapper mirage]

you gotta spam click 40 times to kill anything larger than you but the bigger animal can click once and win

how is that good game design

[tepid gate]

the dumbest thing about Evrima was exactly little garbage like Utah dumpstering animals much larger than itself

[tepid gate]

Because that large animal has a longer growth time and requires more effort

besides it cannot do things that those smaller animals can do

the idea that Utah should be able to dumpster animals larger than itself the way it did to Stego on update 2 is just idiotic

Hopefully that garbage never makes a comeback

[dapper mirage]

how much hp did stego have in update 3

[tepid gate]

4k

it was getting nuked down in ~30-40 seconds

[dapper mirage]

and utah had 110 bite damage right?

[tepid gate]

130N

[dapper mirage]

was it 130?

[tepid gate]

Yes

[dapper mirage]

i couldve swore it was 110

[tepid gate]

Tenonto had 110N

[dapper mirage]

oh yea u right

[tepid gate]

you're confusing the two

Not that it matters, the issue was Utah having 1k hp

it had an overbloated hp pool

an animal weighing a quarter of Carno had half of Carno's hp

[dapper mirage]

so it took utah 30 bites to kill a stego, not including headshots or tailshots

[tepid gate]

the damage output of everything was all over the place

[dapper mirage]

i dont see the problem with that

[tepid gate]

no, because Utah just killed it with pounce

and besides you were going for headshots against Stego

that's how you were killing it in update 3

[dapper mirage]

because if you're a stego and let a utah get 30 bites on you, well. you kinda deserve it

[tepid gate]

changing hp=weight was one of the best decisions

[dapper mirage]

wait but utah can still pounce stego now

[tepid gate]

Carno could finally go down to a more sensible biteforce instead of almost rivalling a goddamn Deinosuchus

I truly wonder what the biteforces of the larger creatures would be like if this idiotic idea of having little garbage like Utah or Pachy have twice the hp they have any right to have was kept in the game

inb4 we got a Rex with 1000k+ biteforce

or Allosaurus with 600N bite

[dapper mirage]

im so against this idea that you need to click on an opponent 30+ times for them to actually die

its insane

[tepid gate]

You're a Utahraptor

you're not meant to be biting that Stego to death

you weigh a 1/12th of that Stego's weight

[dapper mirage]

But the enemy is a stego that can one shot you

[tepid gate]

Yes

because its 12 times your size

what's so hard to grasp about that

[dapper mirage]

the fact that now a utah bite does quite literally nothing

it doesnt even BLEED stegos unless its a headshot

[tepid gate]

it does slightly too little damage imo

it should most certainly not go up to its old biteforce though

[dapper mirage]

you need to bite a stego 110 times currently to kill it as a utah.

im not saying you SHOULD be spam biting a utah as a stego, but you CANNOT tell me that that is absolutely absurd

[tepid gate]

out of the two I'd rather have it at 55N than at 130N, the former is much less problematic than the latter