general-feedback-discussion

[paper oriole]

teno stam should be longer than carnos

[icy lion]

carno has the shortest stam outside of dieno

[paper oriole]

carno is an ambush hunter

[icy lion]

i misread that, my bad

[honest sparrow]

carno ain't exactly supposed to be outstamming most things

[icy lion]

yea

[dire mulch]

Ive just had enough of being kos by tenos

[icy lion]

carno is meant to have low stam

[paper oriole]

if teno gets ruined youll just get kosed by something else

it wont get rid of the kosers

[honest sparrow]

ik its cliche but I have to say it

get better

[dire mulch]

I think they’re pretty op with their stun lock and tail swing

[paper oriole]

not really tbh

[honest sparrow]

stun lock is an actual pain to get hit by, but again you have to get hit by it

[paper oriole]

sure utah got turned into a paper bag but thats not a teno issue

[dire mulch]

Don’t get me wrong I can kill a teno but I just have enough of them seeing me from half the field and comin to kill mr and my mates

[paper oriole]

so you are admitting they are killable, you just want them to sit and wait to be attacked only

they are an aggressive herbivore

just avoid them

[honest sparrow]

its a very crucial lesson that you don't fuck with tenos

[dire mulch]

They’re killable if they circumstances are right

[paper oriole]

you can make distance and get on a rock as a utah or wallow

[dire mulch]

If there’s more than one chances are you’re fucked

[paper oriole]

nerfing the speed/stam of small aggressive herbis will also just make them total fodder as larger predators are added

[dapper mirage]

teno is honestly fine as is right now. especially since carno got a charge buff.

[dire mulch]

My point is for the current dino roster things should be more balanced

[paper oriole]

teno isnt op though so nerfing it wont make things balanced lol

[dire mulch]

Especially with the Utah nerf

[dapper mirage]

if we're gonna say that something makes teno OP, it would be the terrible frame rate that this patch so lovingly blessed us with.

[dire mulch]

I gotta agree with that

[dapper mirage]

game has existed for nearly 6 years and its never been optimized

[honest sparrow]

the isle

[dire mulch]

Again true

[paper oriole]

the isle

[dire mulch]

Herbis have always dominated

[paper oriole]

lmao

holy shit

you should be a comedian

[dire mulch]

Don’t you remember shanty one shot stomp?

[honest sparrow]

shant and theri are the only instances

[paper oriole]

you had to let yourself get hit by the stomp

[dapper mirage]

flashbacks to original progression where trike was clean 2 shot by rex

[paper oriole]

ive soloed a shant

[dire mulch]

And here stego and teno are only instances

[paper oriole]

even in current legacy trike is fodder

even cama is a clean ez kill as a giga

[dapper mirage]

mainly because bleed is OP as fuck

[paper oriole]

stego who was fodder last patch?

[sacred moat]

Rex can solo shant with low difficulty

[dire mulch]

If it gets the leg break

[paper oriole]

legacy para is another example of how herbis do not dominate

[dire mulch]

I can’t find any good legacy servers anymore tho

[paper oriole]

idk what game you'd been playing

[dapper mirage]

how to enjoy legacy

step 1

switch to evrima

congrats

[sacred moat]

Theri was the only OP herbi imo

[paper oriole]

stego was fodder last patch in evrima, teno was balanced, hypsi is pathetic. dryo was the only busted herbi in evrima

[barren zephyr]

@barren zephyrThat's the point I feel like, carno is meant to be more of a solo animal.

[sacred moat]

T h i s

[paper oriole]

oh yrah theri demolished allo packs

[barren zephyr]

Because otherwise, QA would have noticed that and changed it.

[honest sparrow]

lets see:
shant shredder austro
allopocalypse 1 and 2
pre-nerf broken sub carno
hypo rex briefly being playable
giga
alberto having bb
utah without alt turn
dilo
ceratorex
rex

yeah no herbis have "always" dominated

[dapper mirage]

gonna have to disagree there, stego was pretty damn balanced. only issue with it was how clunky it was. the thing is overpowered as anything now. not even deino can stand up to it.

on top of that its STILL clunky.

[sacred moat]

Make a carno pack limit suggestion of one

[paper oriole]

i nearly soloed a stego with a dryo because its jab was super easy to juke and deino demolished it with alt bite

[barren zephyr]

Teno needed the nerf imo

It's more skill based now

carno before was fine, now its OP.

[honest sparrow]

oh yeah and ptera being able to effectively kill everything

[barren zephyr]

Make carnos alt bite slower and its balanced.

Animation looks stupid atm anyways

[dapper mirage]

if you nearly killed a stego with a dryo, then 1. dryo had too much damage and 2. brainlet steg player

[dire mulch]

Pteras are so annoying when you’re a juvi

[sacred moat]

Carno charge should not be one tapping a Utah and it’s alt needs to be slowed down or consume more stam

[barren zephyr]

Nah

[karmic plank]

^

[dire mulch]

Is the alt actually any good?

[barren zephyr]

Carnos charge is hard to hit

[vale pawn]

The Isle

[paper oriole]

i nearly killed it with a dryo meaning it was a solo for utahraptor as well, which i had seen multiple times

[barren zephyr]

Like, just dodge the carnos charge

You are a mobile animal

Why are you tanking a charge from a 1. 8ton theropod?

[paper oriole]

carno charge killing utah is fine honestly i mean look at utah

its a bone bag

[karmic plank]

Yeah, does more damage and has higher attack speed, and the 2.5% Stam cost doesn't matter

[honest sparrow]

ngl pre nerf dryo damage was absolutely amazing, a max of like 3 shots for every juvi was stupid fun

[barren zephyr]

That's like a antelope saying lions are OP because it can one shot them

[dapper mirage]

oh no i definitely agree. im just making the point that just because of an outlier instance of a dryo almost killing a stego doesnt mean stego was underpowered.

[karmic plank]

Well yeah, they are, but antelopes aren't part of a balanced PvP game where people can choose what they play

[sacred moat]

The charge is just knocking you down on the floor, it’s not like it’s picking you up and throwing you up and body slamming you

[barren zephyr]

Dude its a 1.8 ton theropod

It's like getting ran into by a car

at 55 kmh

[honest sparrow]

ah ok

[barren zephyr]

Do you not think that would hurt?

[dapper mirage]

im gonna be honest here

[barren zephyr]

Utah is a skinny animal to

[paper oriole]

getting hit with a car with two sharp bone ridges on the bumber

[barren zephyr]

^

[karmic plank]

Carno charge is fine, even if their head isn't really built for it

[barren zephyr]

didn't know it was supposed to me. makes sense then. I thought it was a pack hunter

[dapper mirage]

as the resident carnotard in this discussion right now, carno clean one shotting utah with charge is, while incredibly satisfying, lame as fuck.

[sacred moat]

Hurt, yes? One tap a full grown Utah? I don’t think it should

[barren zephyr]

Well then you need to look at utahs model again.

[paper oriole]

i agree its lame, it should also launch utahs 40 feet when it hits them

[barren zephyr]

And pay more attention to your surroundings

[dapper mirage]

no animals should be one shotting each other EVER unless the size disparity between the two is something insane like carno/dryo

[barren zephyr]

Utah has no issue dodging carnos charge

if you get hit, you deserve to die

[honest sparrow]

my friends have survived when a carno charged them before it was 1 shot, because they were flung into like the forest and the carno lost track

[karmic plank]

When fractures comes in charge will probably get a damage nerf, but the effect will still be the same. A Utah hit by charge is t going to live long term

[barren zephyr]

Like, if you get hit by carnos charge you just weren't playing well

[paper oriole]

if an attack is easy to dodge it deserves to have a good damage output like that, utah deserves to get battered if it doesnt dodge

[barren zephyr]

^

[dapper mirage]

facts

[karmic plank]

^

[sacred moat]

It should still be a death sentence once fractures come in but I don’t think base raw damage of that should kill a Utah

[dapper mirage]

i just dont think it should be a clean one shot.

[karmic plank]

It's like complaining if a Utah gets a full length pounce on you. That happens you already goofed up too bad to expect to live

[dapper mirage]

the "punishing unaware players" should go both ways

[honest sparrow]

carno has utah dead to rights regardless

assuming it hits

[dapper mirage]

carno should have to turn around and finish the job with a bite to dispatch utah

[barren zephyr]

Nah, it should one shot utah.

There's no point in making it a "death sentence", just let it one shot.

[paper oriole]

i just want it to do this

[barren zephyr]

It looks like it should one shot, it makes sense one shotting from a realism standpoint, its fine from a balance standpoint to, no reason for it not to one shot.

[dapper mirage]

if the carno cant perform a task as simple as biting a knocked down utah once, even in the heat of combat, then that carno really doesnt deserve the kill and the utah deserves to escape

[sacred moat]

If it did this then yeah sure but it doesn’t

[barren zephyr]

If the utah can't preform a task as simple as paying attention to their surroundings, it deserves to die.

[paper oriole]

i know i said i wanted it to

[sacred moat]

Ye ye

[dapper mirage]

this is also true

hence why i said it works both ways

[karmic plank]

Does nobody else see those oversized eyebrow ridges on carno and how they would get snapped off first charge?

[honest sparrow]

I mean if we're talking from a realism standpoint why doesn't carno running at max speed and then slamming its jaw down on the utah also one shot it

[barren zephyr]

^

[paper oriole]

if utah doesnt get oneshot it should still get crazy body fractures from being hit like that, it's pretty much dead

[dapper mirage]

yea fractures are gonna seal the deal

[honest sparrow]

utah is dead regardless, its just a matter of whether it happens on impact or later

[dapper mirage]

at that point when carno can fracture shit, i DONT want carno to clean one shot utah cuz i wanna watch them try to slowly limp away

[paper oriole]

KFSers might enjoy the option to leave a crippled utah on the edge of death for shits and giggles like legacy rex players did sometimes

just to trol llol

[dapper mirage]

because the suffering of others is hilarious in this game.

unless you're the one suffering.

[honest sparrow]

unironically going to do this with a group when pachy comes out

[dapper mirage]

then its not funny and everyone else is cringe....... >:(((

[paper oriole]

honestly same

[karmic plank]

Training target for juvies, just like IRL

[paper oriole]

i remember breaking some giga's leg and starving it to death on rex a while back in legacy because i am an asshole

[honest sparrow]

the plan is to bait a carno into plains and then break its kneecaps, and then watch it starve or dehydrate

[dapper mirage]

honestly

even if pachy can shatter carnos ankles

i dont see the poor thing doing well against it

but what im most interested in

[honest sparrow]

its not going to kill it

its just gonna really

really

[dapper mirage]

is a head on head collison between carno and pachy

[honest sparrow]

fuck it up

[dapper mirage]

like what would happen??

[icy lion]

carno would win probably

[dapper mirage]

carno has so much weight compared to it

[honest sparrow]

how much damage does carno charge do again

[dapper mirage]

but pachy's head tho

[icy lion]

1.8 tons vs ~500kg

[sacred moat]

Carno would win

[dapper mirage]

at least 450 damage, since it kills utah

[honest sparrow]

pachy would either die on impact or go flying and leave carno with a serious concussion

[dapper mirage]

on the topic of carnos charge

why do so many tenos try to challenge it

[honest sparrow]

isle players

[dapper mirage]

they just stand there and try to time the tail slam

like yeah you might stun it

but the best case scenario is a trade unless you're SUPER lucky.

its better to just respect the charge and dodge

[honest sparrow]

it feels good to shit on a carno who was going in a straight line towards you

I did when testing the new update with friends

felt awesome

[dapper mirage]

thats what i find so hilarious about playing carno

its literally just "run in a straight line and hope you win"

and it WORKS

[barren zephyr]

I mean, against good players, that won't work.

Trying running in a straight line vs a good teno.

Or a good utah

or good anything.

[dapper mirage]

your first mistake is assuming that there are good isle players

[barren zephyr]

They will dodge or body you.

[barren zephyr]

Yeah I've started to realize 1v1s are kinda pointless since in game, 90% of players are morons.

[honest sparrow]

this tbh

[dapper mirage]

the thing is everyone is bloodthirsty as hell

so 70% of the time you're better off minding your own business and letting the food/entertainment come to you

regardless of what dino you're playing

oftentimes your opponent sees so much red that they forget that they might have to play defensively too, and then..... back to the select screen they go....

[karmic plank]

500

[honest sparrow]

ok so if they keep pachy at 500 kg thats a clean 1 shot

[karmic plank]

Charge can get headshots as well

[dapper mirage]

why cant carno headshot stego or crocs with charge

[karmic plank]

But again, expect a reduction in raw damage when fractures come in

[karmic plank]

Yeah, this should be a high risk play. You take damage if you got their body, let carnos go for head charges

[dapper mirage]

ex 👏 act 👏 ly 👏

like if a carno misjudges and doinks stego in its side

well.

i hope that carno has his will in writing.

[sacred moat]

Stego should suffer when it comes to head injury

[vale pawn]

[karmic plank]

They do have a higher headshot multiplier than other dinos, but I personally think it should be even higher again

And trike will hopefully be the opposite

[meager tiger]

Stego would have a really weak head

[tight lantern]

@vast patio instead of being a dick and passive aggressively making you feel like an idiot by giving an emoji to front as if I have big dick energy, I'll just try and be helpful here and answer your question. When you get that error you want to right click on the game in Steam and then validate your game files. You may have to do so twice but it will take care of the issue from there!

[manic cairn]

hello everyone hope you are all ok, i was wondering if anyone knows how to not get your dino wiped out in the officials servers, i have lost a lot of good dinosaurs in an impressive short amount of time, tysm!

[tight lantern]

Hi Zity, I wish we knew. It's been an unfortunate bug. I've found if I log out and come right back in my dino will be there but if I leave for a few hours and come back it's wiped. Lost 10 dinos in 3 days, I feel your pain.

[karmic plank]

@dapper mirage there are a bunch of server-side settings that I've been playing around with in collab with SilverFox to optimise client FPS. Hoping to get enough people into a server tonight to give them a test

[manic cairn]

omg tysm, peterasaurus, guess i have to say goodbye to my teno, again tysm for the response

[tight lantern]

It's been a real pain. For now I recommend playing something smaller like a Dryo, Utah, of Ptera because if you log you're certainly likely to lose your progress.

[manic cairn]

yeah, i got u buddy. tysm for the feedback, wish you the best

[tight lantern]

Always. Best of luck to you as well. Update 4 should bring some much needed stability

[feral solstice]

@barren zephyr
Update 3.5 released like a month and a half ago

So there’s that

[hoary dawn]

update 4 is a big one, like most roadmap updates are

figures it would take a while

[halcyon cypress]

Also saying how long ago the last update was isn't 'feedback'

[hoary dawn]

starcit!zen

[honest sparrow]

Hi

[hoary dawn]

hi

[honest sparrow]

What do you think of Acro drinking a chug jug

[hoary dawn]

i think acro could do without any more chug jugs

[honest sparrow]

Rip

[vale pawn]

fortnite acro

[barren zephyr]

3.5 was more of a patch

[feral solstice]

Not even

It’s like a mini update

Patch is moreso for fixes rather than content

[barren zephyr]

The water was the biggest thing was it not?

[feral solstice]

Juvenile pouncing aswell as balance and other things

[barren zephyr]

That was in game already before they just reimplemented and it didnt even work right at first

[feral solstice]

Mhm

It’s still content

[barren zephyr]

Hardly imo so im counting only update 3

[feral solstice]

Patchnotes: https://steamcommunity.com/games/TheIsle/announcements/detail/3032591001159781263

That’s still quite a few stuff for a patch

Any .5 I’d say is an update, while any full number is a major one

So lik

From greatest to least it’s like 1, .5, and then hotfixes

[barren zephyr]

The bug fixes and "enhancements" (aka balance [value] changes) lists are like 2 - 3x longer than the additions list. Thats a patch

[feral solstice]

So if the bug fixes are more than the content then it’s a patch to you

Alright

Interesting

[hoary dawn]

Doesn't really matter either way

[barren zephyr]

Not if the additions are so minor

[barren zephyr]

I agree, we're just talkin here thats all

[feral solstice]

Aye

[icy lion]

that's what update 3 looks like

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/376210/view/3073120860890560853

look at that fix list, tasty

[barren zephyr]

Right but update 3 added new creatures and such

Major things

[icy lion]

id say completely expanding upon a creatures playability and playstyle is pretty major imo

alongside a major graphical improvement and sweeping balance changes

but again, just imo

[feral solstice]

Like if I were to guess, this pre-patch is like update 3.75 haha

[barren zephyr]

What was the major graphical improvement?

[icy lion]

water

[barren zephyr]

I mean super, cmon. Still to this day water is super janky. Now that Jace is here im sure thatll change in update 4 (or whenever they release a bunch of map changes)

So though it was implemented its not major because it wasnt done necessarily right, imo

[icy lion]

i dont think jace handles the water graphics but im not certain exactly what his duties are outside of the map itself

since i remember mention of him helping with weather and lighting

[barren zephyr]

Well Jace is our pro for level design which handles things like materials and water systems

and includes as you said weather and lighting

At least thats what i imagine that role is responsible for, but what do i know lol
Im off, enjoyed the chat guys

[feral solstice]

Have a good one

o7

[icy lion]

later, Jackll

[limber hull]

Update 4 seems much bigger and better than U3 tbh. The addition of fishing, flyers and aquatics is nice, but the map (imo) was not well made for these creatures, especially deino. Adding key mechanics like diets, fractures and a complete overhaul of the map is something I really look forward to, as a massive hinderance to a lot of my enjoyment (especially with deino), was the map.

[weak dune]

I mean I'm pretty sure all major updates include a map overhaul because original release was not the same map as U2, and U3 was not the same as U2. But the new revisions are definitely looking more polished than previous iterations

[limber hull]

I just feel that things like the linear streams, predominantly river-dominated environments and massive shallows put a HUGE hinderance on the enjoyment of deino. Can't wait to see more varied environments, because I'm pretty tired of most of my Isle experience being fields and rivers lmao

[icy lion]

yea, its nice that all the water sources connect but not when theres pretty much 3 rivers to choose from

AND shallows separates the sources anyway

[limber hull]

Yea, the shallows being in the centre just upsets me

[icy lion]

theres no smaller rivers or ponds to speak of, and no ones ever in swamps

[limber hull]

I want less water sources where people go "Oh good, a safe place to drink, we'll spawn here!"

Based on phase 2, shallows are finally getting to be more than just a roadblock for deino exploration

[weak dune]

Thing is so many rivers are already too shallow for drowning but juuuuust deep enough to hide deino that the shallows as they are now are just silly

If they had it for just a short stretch that'd be fine but the shallows are excessively long

[limber hull]

agreed

[broken thorn]

Yeah possibly, i just thought to not make it a smaller Utah😄

[karmic plank]

I'd really like to see swamp and shallows swapped. Swamp as the main deino hatching ground should be central to the map, not tucked away in some dank corner

Jace looks like they've been doing some great beautification but there's some major balance issues with the general layout imo

[karmic plank]

OMG! Hollow logs!

I've never felt so validated before

[limber hull]

that's like, one of the most interesting places in the game

It has:

• Tribal paintings
• A hollow log
• A blocked off cave
• A tar pit in that cave

It's sick as

[karmic plank]

pity the tarpit can't be interacted with

and it's so l o u d

[limber hull]

ah yes, the ultimate feedback, don't make more interesting mechanics or an entire way to play, just spam the game with more dinosaurs without the mechanics to support them

why would you add 6 more dinosaurs when you could add humans which adds a COMPLETELY unique playstyle never before seen in the Isle, or add mechanics that make the game actively more fun and engaging

[karmic plank]

10/10 feedback "y'all poopoo madface"

[limber hull]

I personally really want humans, more-so than even some dinos, just because it will massively impact what audiences will play. Now people can play their JP-simulator along with their dino-sim

[weak dune]

There are tribal paintings in the Isle?

[azure wadi]

Yeah I’d rather have evrima not become PoT part 2 electric boogaloo

[weak dune]

lol

[lapis tree]

Yeah there’s one of a Ptera outside of the tar pit cave and a couple inside the cave

[sudden hinge]

@limber hull I like the cera idea for the most part till you factor in herds of tenos and carno packs cera would need a large pack size to survive either encounters and solo Ceras would be fodder no matter how strong they are. Swim speed isn’t really a good enough strat and really is only helpful if you are right by the water. I like the bully style you’ve described but it’s niche and limits cera to 1v1s and bullying Utah’s

[limber hull]

this is true, cera falters in these scenarios

i can see the issue, but at the same time, I really cannot see a viable way for cera to get around this issue

honestly, any suggestions would be appreciated to fix this issue

i personally just want cera to be able to hold its ground against many things that may compete against it, but I 100% see how a herd of tenos can just fuck his day up

the high damage output could help, but a group of tenos using tail slam spam could quite easily fuck its day up

[manic flint]

The austro design has a too short body. The long face can work, as they want it to be a Fisher, but the head is longer than the body. The body needs to be longer imo

[tight lantern]

@sterile quest its a terrible bug and has happened a ton to me as well. Supposedly if you quick log instead of safe logging it wont wipe your dinosaur. Just want to be sure to hide well and away from anyone when you quick log

[sterile quest]

@tight lantern Yeah I've done that a couple of times aswell now, and I still don't have my dino as I log back in. Maybe I've been really unlucky though and been found when I do it, but I really doubt that 😦

[jade schooner]

@barren zephyr I think they’ve thought about having that, but it’s kinda hard when it comes to specific scaring. I believe scars and heal will happen, but permanent/added scars, not so sure

[barren zephyr]

eah it would be like decals on cars or something

or a car wrap

[hoary dawn]

delete utah

[paper oriole]

Based

[manic sun]

@barren zephyr those scars were from the fight with the indominus rex xD. Permanent scars would be cool but don´t add too many otherwise other players could think you´re low on hp or hurt.

[broken thorn]

@barren zephyr your Rex suggestion is phenomenal. it both looks believable, yet Isle-ish. Love this, where ever you found it

I wouldn't even mind the lack of feathers, since Isle isn't meant to be accurate, this one looks good with skin 🙂

[paper oriole]

Feathered adult rex was kinda debunked anyway wasnt it

Peachrex

[broken thorn]

beautiful

imagine this thing just walking out on you from the shadows of a forest while your buddy is bussy repairing a jeap. just standing there, staring you down menicingly without motion. survival horror

[hoary dawn]

delete utah, think long and hard about what you've done, then give it a complete rework

[broken thorn]

yup

[barren zephyr]

delete utah

i agree

[hoary dawn]

feedback discussion

discussion of the general feedback variety

[lavish quail]

oh my god yes add an option for global

please oh lord do

realism can suck it

[hoary dawn]

no

its not just about realism

its about the gamemode

[broken thorn]

true

I enjoy not having global, becouse i can focus on there and then.

[hoary dawn]

just bring it back for sandbox servers, that's what we've been saying for ages now and its still a good option

[broken thorn]

sandbox is needed

[hoary dawn]

only reason they didn't have sandbox off the bat was that there were only 2 playables, now that there are 8 going on 9 sandbox would be nice to see return soon

[lavish quail]

sandbox would be amazing

[hoary dawn]

yea

[lavish quail]

i want cerato 😦

gameplay is so stale

when i say that i mean deino takes an L cause of canni's

and utah cringe

infact i want something tbh

[still raptor]

@broken thorn utah change was needed but why people are upset us that they’re used to 5 years of Utah being a fairly easy animal to play as when in reality, it shouldn’t

[lavish quail]

utah now is made of paper

[still raptor]

And thats good

[hoary dawn]

it is a small tier

[broken thorn]

No,no. Im not saying it should be cheap and easy

[still raptor]

I know

But Utah gameplay was cheap and easy quite frankly

[broken thorn]

I love that it is now more encouraged to pounce more and spam bites less

[lavish quail]

but its made of paper.

[still raptor]

The devs made it harder and actually take skill

[broken thorn]

But it's mobility is just so bad now, very hard to dodge attacks in most of the situations

[still raptor]

Yea

[lavish quail]

nah they made it useless

mabye good against stegs

[hoary dawn]

good against a psuedo apex isn't useless

[still raptor]

If its good against high tier animals how is it useless

Stego is an apex btw

It obliterates Teno

[lavish quail]

stego isnt gonna be part of utahs diet

[hoary dawn]

just the other day some friends and I were playing utah, it is perfectly capable of thriving

tho we did mostly kill our own

[lavish quail]

thats bad

we dont like that

[hoary dawn]

I always do that

[lavish quail]

yeah no thats bad

dont do that

[hoary dawn]

how

[cyan flame]

Stego should be part of utahs diet though? Why not, taking down a stego would be a great start to nesting a clutch?

[lavish quail]

stegos last a utah for ages

[cyan flame]

Lots of food, and good food at that, makes sense to me

[lavish quail]

10 utahs live of a steg for 4 days

[lavish quail]

too hard to hunt stabaly tho

[hoary dawn]

utah can take down anything in the game except like deino as long as the players have braincells

[lavish quail]

@vernal ingot why not

[lavish quail]

and the enemys dont

[hoary dawn]

well i cant speak for the people that die

but utah can kill stuff

[vernal ingot]

what?

[lavish quail]

whats wrong with global as an option lmao

[broken thorn]

Utah stat-wise is pretty OK currently, it's just the stubbynes of it's movement that is dragging it down

[lavish quail]

its too slow raise it by like 5%

[pale bloom]

Bitteforce still a joke imo

[hoary dawn]

i do agree it could be more maneuverable

[lavish quail]

utahs cant bite lmao

does no damage

[vernal ingot]

Oh. It allows people to make call-outs on locations.

[grim copper]

I don’t think it’s too slow but it definitely needs to be slightly more agile

[pale bloom]

Yeah. You only rely on spamming pounces

[lavish quail]

yeah but as an option

[lavish quail]

basically

[pale bloom]

Which is all the risky option

[vernal ingot]

if someone has an option to do it they'll do it.

[hoary dawn]

the way the devs seem to want utah to be played is to pounce something and then just wear it down over time with bleed

[broken thorn]

A tiny bit of speed boost but not necessary. The turning is painful

[pale bloom]

Problem is the biteforce nerf is so bad you cant really use bites on anything besides Hypsis

[lavish quail]

an option for the server dipshit

[hoary dawn]

keep it chill

[pale bloom]

Unless you want to be landing 20+ bites on let's say a 600 KG Tenonto

[vernal ingot]

I also personally find enjoyment in searching for pack mates and don't want everyone just doing: Types in global "uhh, so where is that carno mega pack i can join?"

[broken thorn]

What's the current biteforce of an adult Utah? Possibly what it was before? Anyone knows?

[pale bloom]

55 N from 130 N

Got a 60% less bitteforce nerf at least

[broken thorn]

Could be 70N so the bf is useful, yet not spamable too much

[vernal ingot]

If you're going to act like an absolute moron stop pinging me.

[grim copper]

What’s the damage on alt-bite?

[broken thorn]

If anyone wants to try Utah with me on some server and try understanding it's new purpose, feel free to DM me

[lavish quail]

for what?

[grim copper]

Utah

[lavish quail]

better than normal but still useless

[pale bloom]

Alt bite should be 100 N but you can't really use that attack on fights besides Dryos and maybe other Utahs

Use it on anything else and youre dead Lol

[grim copper]

Yeah I use it on things I know I can 1 shot

[pale bloom]

Lol PTs and Hypsis only

[lavish quail]

hypsi fear sounds

[grim copper]

Also fresh spawn carnos running up to me and 2-calling

[lavish quail]

@grim wigeon i think a better version of local chat just called local would be good

[hoary dawn]

wh

[lavish quail]

like the chat we have now but for all creatures

[hoary dawn]

that doesn't make much sense

[lavish quail]

cause then your not spamming the chat with where is the nearest group

[lavish quail]

i mean its better than getting canni'd

[hoary dawn]

its not tho what

how are those related

[lavish quail]

idk you tell me

[hoary dawn]

i can't

as they are not related

what does every animal being able to talk with every other animal contribute to the game

[lavish quail]

vibes

thats what

vibes

[hoary dawn]

what kind of vibes

[lavish quail]

the best kind

chill vibes

[hoary dawn]

this aint a chill game

[lavish quail]

its pretty chill at times

like pocket pools normally a vibe to be at

[hoary dawn]

afk chatroom simulator

[lavish quail]

yeah

but with dinos

[hoary dawn]

good luck vibing after diets

[lavish quail]

diets are gonna be a thing.

[hoary dawn]

yes

they are

and

[lavish quail]

yeah.

[hoary dawn]

so you're just trolling at this point

[lavish quail]

what?

lmao

something tells me your checking in on this chat far too often

[hoary dawn]

you bring up a point and then refuse to elaborate on it, then splurt random nonsense

[lavish quail]

what point

the diets being a thing?

yeah.

[lavish quail]

that point

yeah that would be cool

[hoary dawn]

you presented an idea, and when i questioned it you just started actin all weird

instead of supporting your claim

[lavish quail]

well i gotta do smthn now so i'll be back in 6h when i can type again

[hoary dawn]

alrighty

this was weird even for feedback

[dire mulch]

I lost brain cells reading that

[swift dew]

"silly stuff like diets"

its definitly not like diets plays 1/3 of the gameplay loop of this game

[lavish quail]

who what when why im back

[lavish quail]

diets solve so many problems its great

Know what’s better to diets tho?

Pachy!

[swift dew]

no

diets is better

no questions asked

pachy is good. but it can't beat a mechanic that makes up 1/3 of the gameplay loop that this game is going for

[manic flint]

True

[feral solstice]

@broken thorn
Pounce is bugged, which means it’s bleed damage doesn’t use the appropriate amount.

And the inertia is the same for every Dino

[swift dew]

a single utah pounce is supposed to drop a carno to 20% blood even if it bucks? I don't think I like this

[feral solstice]

Read the first image

He’s saying he doesn’t want a SINGLE Utah to do that

He wants multiple ones only

[manic sun]

question guys: Should humans outrun apexes like giga,rex,acro?

[lavish quail]

I want them to be slightly slower

So they’re running

Looking up at the apex

Knowing their dead

[feral solstice]

Yeah generally you shouldn’t be seen

If you’re seen by a dinosaur you’re as good as dead

[lavish quail]

I mean pretty cool to think about tho

Know what else is cool

This post from yesterday

Lemme find it

#general-feedback message

[sacred moat]

@valid zephyr Boars>Ovi

[swift dew]

yes, but their full sprint won't last for long so odds are you will get outlasted if you can't loose them fast

[sacred moat]

Humans better have the best stamina in this game

[valid zephyr]

Cassowary moment.

[still raptor]

No

[lavish quail]

What’s wrong with apexes

[valid zephyr]

Humans should have godly stam regen.

[swift dew]

no, humans should have one of the worst staminas but for a full sprint, their trot (which doesn't take stamina) should be a jog, also yes, good stam regen

[lavish quail]

Humans should not

[sacred moat]

Nothing is wrong with them, it’s the players that ruin them and unbalance the ecosystem with them

[manic sun]

yea sweating poggers

[still raptor]

Yup

[sacred moat]

Sweat glands for the sun

[lavish quail]

Humans should rely on vehicles

[valid zephyr]

Humans are one of the best endurance animals on the planet.

[sacred moat]

^^^^^

You can literally run down any animal

[lavish quail]

I assume dinosaurs were better tbh

[still raptor]

There should be 5 types of movement:

Prone
Crouch
Walk
Run
Tactical Run

[valid zephyr]

Only thing which can match us is doge/wolves. And only in cold climates.

[manic sun]

true we hunted gazelles by just exhausting them, not like cheetahs who make a quick sprint

[swift dew]

they jog that though, which is why their "trot" should actually be a jog, and their sprint would last for about 10 seconds

[lavish quail]

I mean

[valid zephyr]

ffs I wrote doge not dogs. Leaving it though.

[lavish quail]

Wild cats

Birds

Buffaloes

[sacred moat]

Humans traded raw speed for insane endurance

[swift dew]

wild cats are sprinters, not endurance creatures

[valid zephyr]

Wild cats and buffalos can't out endurance humans.

birds fly.

[lavish quail]

Certainly travelling further than us

[swift dew]

we would out endurance birds, buffalos, and wildcats (running)

[sacred moat]

Wild cats are like the worst at endurance lmfao

[sterile viper]

Lag in center?

[swift dew]

im not sure about ostritches, though tbh

[valid zephyr]

Humans hunt animals like that by jogging after them until it literally dies of exhaustion.

[still raptor]

Humans hunting natural fauna

Anyways

[lavish quail]

Nah we use guns

And assuming the lore is still in evrima

[valid zephyr]

Ah yes, guns evolved alongside early humans 2 million years ago.

[sacred moat]

My guy

Early humans didn’t have machine guns

[still raptor]

I gotta start with the mechanical side of a merc gameplay

[lavish quail]

I mean tribals are early humans

[valid zephyr]

Early humans had pointy stick and heavy rock.

[lavish quail]

Mercenary’s have guns.

[swift dew]

tribals are not

they are 9 foot tall orclike monsters

not humans

[manic sun]

CHEETAHS HMMMMMMMMMM

[swift dew]

at all

[valid zephyr]

Mercenaries are still human, and therefore still inherit the human endurance.

Just because us desk sitters can't run far, doesn't mean all humans can't.

[lavish quail]

Tf what

[sacred moat]

T h i s

[lavish quail]

Where did that come from

[honest sparrow]

Yeah tribals are just orcs with a Tarzan makeover

[still raptor]

Lore

[manic sun]

apexes were designed to fight shit and be the chads of the jungle

we were rats who killed a gazelles young by exhausting it

[swift dew]

#isle-lore-theories message

dondi explains tribals with a neat little animation

[valid zephyr]

Humans have this broken ability called sweating.

[sacred moat]

a natural way to cool down

[manic sun]

and nature didnt nerf it so fucking broken

[sacred moat]

Meanwhile your dog sits there hyperventilating

[manic sun]

trying to learn how the most broken species of nature sweats

[valid zephyr]

Humans should have poor speed, but amazing stam regen even while trotting (jogging). Just do the alternate run-jog-run-jog which we're so good at.

[sacred moat]

NTM we’re bipeds, so we can carry water with us in one hand and carry our killing tools in the other

[valid zephyr]

Once you get to a certain fitness threshhold, you can basically rest and regain stam in a fast jog.

[manic sun]

I think they should have also "good" speed but that should use A LOT more stamina

so we can just zickzack a rex ya know

[sacred moat]

Well that depends tbh, keep in mind they’ll be having to carry shit on them as well

[valid zephyr]

Wonder if your gear will effect speed. Human with only jeans and T-shirt faster than human with a heavy rucksack, a machinegun, and body armour.

[manic sun]

true forgot that

[valid zephyr]

Isle dinos have had their speeds artificially bumped up tons, so won't be outrunning them.

[sacred moat]

Give me motorcycle

[swift dew]

thats why they should have a weight mechanic, if they have nothing on them they get go at faster speeds, carry lots of gear and you won't be outrunning that rex that was mentioned earlier

nothing silly like ark though

[sacred moat]

Yeaaah something tells me that you’d want to drop your heavy back pack when a Rex is chasing you lmfao

[manic sun]

yea were u just run in slow motion bc you´re overweight lol

[swift dew]

yeah, your inventory space would fill up before you got anywhere near that, but you would see some pretty siginifcant differences in speed

[manic sun]

were mps and assault rifles announced?

would be fun to see little jimmy shooting a rex with his ak-47 lol

while he´s screaming in a VC

[sacred moat]

I still stand by what I said, stego should suffer when it comes to head damage

[manic sun]

yes °-°

[sacred moat]

No reason why stego is taking headshots from deino

Same goes for bullets

Body shots shouldnt hurt it too much because stego is a little chonk

But bullets shots to the head should destroy stego

[manic sun]

i mean it has plates so maybe let it take a little less dmg

[sacred moat]

Stego doesn’t have plates that cover its head

[manic sun]

ik they dont go around its whole body but like there shouldnt be 20 humans sprayin down a stego in 4s with mps

[sacred moat]

The plates stop at the neck

Like the head itself is unprotected

And super small

[manic sun]

yea headshots should be rewarding but hitting the sides of it should deal less dmg

[sacred moat]

The sides of its head?

[manic sun]

its body basically

[sacred moat]

Oh yeah I dont expect stego to go down from a few body shots

But it’s head? I think a high tier rifle should blow that shit into chunks

[manic sun]

yea

would be funny to see tho. 20 Humans in a VC shooting a stego for 4s and it instantly just dies xD

[sacred moat]

I mean

Guns are very OP

[manic sun]

if u hit the right spot

yes

[sacred moat]

Yeah

[manic sun]

i mean

they should be OP since they are like rare af

[finite frost]

@sacred moat a 306 or elphant rifle would be good for that

[manic sun]

yo a goddamn sniper

[sacred moat]

Seee I was thinking about elephant rifles

[manic sun]

we need that shit

[sacred moat]

But then the community would whine

[manic sun]

fuck it xD

no one cares about little jimmies stego who got 1 shot by a sniper

[cyan flame]

Dinosaur only server ftw!

[still raptor]

Shoddy, your pack limits are bad.

[manic sun]

yes

but still there should be enough human servers

[swift dew]

also group limits shouldn't be hard on a specific "tier" since its difficult to place some creatures into hard "tiers" anyways

[manic sun]

and it shouldn´t be shit to play on these servers

[swift dew]

such as carno should have 1-2 group limit

[manic sun]

i mean yea it was probably a cannibal but maybe 3 as a limit might be good too

[still raptor]

Some animals in certain categories may need to be altered to fit their niche and given nature. For instance, Shant. Shant is an apex herbi that is a very social creature (or at least should be). Imo, the pack limit for a shant group should be around 4.

And Carno

Should be solitary imo

[manic sun]

but im fine also fine with 2

solitary would also be cool every carno u meet is just another rival

[still raptor]

Tenonto is a small tier and it's group limit is 8. That needs to be nerfed to about 4 or 5

Unless it's been changed this patch

[swift dew]

its not that its a cannibal, but its that its niche is meant to be a small game hunter, (its own size and lower), not something that packs up to kill bigger things

[still raptor]

Like it does now

[swift dew]

compared to something like allo, which is bigger than carno, but its meant to pack up to take down large game

[still raptor]

Also

[swift dew]

[still raptor]

Carno isn't a brawler.

Nor should it be considered.

[manic sun]

C H E E T A H

[feral solstice]

Cheetah Carno ftw

[manic sun]

ambuss prrrredathor

[still raptor]

Should have linear focused movement that turns like a 18 wheeler and slides like its on ice. Imo, this is good because it allows carno to use its special ability.

[feral solstice]

https://tenor.com/view/thor-ragnarok-transform-gif-14601550

Preda THOR

[manic sun]

y

[feral solstice]

We have found carnos niche

[manic sun]

chad prrrrrrrrrredaTHOR

[feral solstice]

It is a preda-Thor

[sacred moat]

when i think of carno I think of a cheetah tbh, I wouldnt mind seeing a band of 3 roaming about hunting and i wouldnt mind seeing a mother and 2 kids too

but there SHOULD NOT be 4 or more carnos

its dumb and unbalanced

[glad dirge]

yeah I dont like the idea of a not really social carnivore in large groups

its different for herbivores or social pack based dinos like utah

but not carnos

[icy lion]

@barren zephyr Nightvision is coming in update 5.5. Please try to add more to your suggestion than just one word

[hoary dawn]

with what we've been seeing i wouldn't be surprised if a prototype nightvision came with 4/4.5

[barren zephyr]

@icy lion My computer crashed, and so i wasn't able to finish my idea. sorry.

And its also not your job to tell people what they should comment as well. That's the moderators. Not to be rude of course.

[icy lion]

I am a moderator.

[barren zephyr]

My bad then.

[paper oriole]

[still raptor]

[sacred moat]

actual satire

[bitter timber]

people crying about pounce damage

holy fuck

cant believe they nerfed raptor this bad

[hasty dagger]

Raptor will be fine when inertia can be properly balanced and bleed isn’t bugged lol

[still raptor]

the only reason why people are crying about Utah's nerf is that it can't cheese the entire fucking roster anymore.

People don't like change.

One thing that I think does need to change is the reward for Alt biting

But other than that, a pack of Utahs can easily kill a full grown Stego

[pale bloom]

Easily? Doubt it, Stego has to be bad to make that hunt "easy"

[still raptor]

8 pack of stegos can relatively take on a Stego easily.

Sure half of them would die

[pale bloom]

Well that's not "easy" if you lose half pack, and considering you have that amount of Utahs which is not gonna be the case

[hoary dawn]

i mean really the hardest part would be getting a pounce in

you'd have to bait it

[pale bloom]

There's so many ways to counter pounce that any kind of hunting that relies on that exclusively its hard

[hoary dawn]

counterable abilities are good

[cyan flame]

That's because some of the counters are bugs or otherwise not well balanced, which is more noticable now that pounce is needed

So maybe look at it that way, we wouldn't know as much on what is an issue until we see how the impact of something is

[pale bloom]

Oh yes, and yet people was complaining about Stego tailswing being counterable on prepatch

[valid zephyr]

We've literally been testing utahs hunting stego. A full pack of mediocre utahs with no voicechat can kill a stego.

Most times

[hoary dawn]

i've never had an issue with stego tailswing

[pale bloom]

Many did tho

[hoary dawn]

what kinds of issues

[cyan flame]

The water thing will be fixed, the rocks/trees will most likely be adjusted

Now that we know, if pounce is important, those things are an issue

[valid zephyr]

water thing really needs fixing.

and stego swings should cancel if they hit a tree or rock. No phasing through to hit the utah behind

[cyan flame]

If those are fixed, there goes the "counters" and then we'll most likely have to adjust utah bleed and the buck and all again

Proper interaction with envrionment too please, no shoving head or other parts into terrain

Where's the collision at.. :p

[pale bloom]

Yeah but for now all those things and also being smart and not fighting in flat areas (which gives Utahs advantage) because you can go to steppy areas and bonk Utahs on dismount

[cyan flame]

Well, as you said, it's for now

Let the devs fix the issues, then we'll see

[pale bloom]

Right now and until is fixed anyone can avoid pouncing so I wouldn't say hunting anything with it its easy, when some conditions meet in place it turns into a starvation hunt which is wrong hunting design imo

[cyan flame]

"For now" we also still lack gameplay loop and shit, so.. :p

So it'll get better, even if it is a bit of a mess right now perhaps

[bitter timber]

bruh

people forget

pounce takes stamina

and if they press E

our stamina is gone in a poof

holy ufck

people cant take it when a raptor kills them

but when they spam their bites or tail swings by just standing still

they find it outplayed

[cyan flame]

@bitter timberYou could also say people can't take it when they have to actually conduct a proper hunt and not just kill in one or two pounces. It's fine that a raptor kills something ,but it should take proper effort, numbers, and time, depending on what it is.

[bitter timber]

one or two pounces lol

u press E

drain peoples stamina

and run after them

have u seen a teno stamina ?

basically infinite

[cyan flame]

It's not, by any means, infinite any more. It got nerfed, so teno can't both fight and run.

[bitter timber]

then u haven't played against a teno today

[cyan flame]

And teno is not supposed to be soloed anyway, so if you are down on stamina, retreat and let your packmate engage with it

[bitter timber]

i fought one literally 4 mins ago

didn't see one rest

[icy lion]

teno has the same sprint stam as utah

[bitter timber]

was still chasing me for like an hour

[cyan flame]

... I don't think anything runs for more than a few min

[icy lion]

and teno is slower

[cyan flame]

So you're exaggerating quite a bit :p

[bitter timber]

?

i do a pounce

run for 10 sec

and im dead

great gameplay guys

epic nerf

let teno have 50 stuns

let stego one shot everything

let deino have every free food in water and ahs no threat at all besides his same kind

only thing i can respect a lil is carno but that guy gets free raptor food by just spamming his bite

yea bro

outplayed

[icy lion]

https://tenor.com/view/calm-down-chill-martin-freeman-interview-breathe-gif-5362498

[bitter timber]

have u even tried playing a raptor once lol

[icy lion]

its still very, very possible for utah to be lethal to everything but deino, really

pack gameplay is still extremely strong, as it should be

[bitter timber]

thats if u find a pack thats full grown

have fun finding one : p

[icy lion]

then dont take on obvious threats that are out of your league

if you have ~6 utahs that are at max 75% grown dont attack a stego

[bitter timber]

yea true just starve to the death

[icy lion]

dryo ai numbers are through the absolute roof rn

[bitter timber]

are u mental

i legit

haven't seen 1

in the last update

[icy lion]

ive seen dozens lmao

[bitter timber]

must be good knowing their exact spawn locations then

[icy lion]

no, just sniff constantly

[hoary dawn]

you dont need ai anyway

[cyan flame]

You just eat your own so you never have any problems ^^

[hoary dawn]

every carnivore can survive fine without it unless you're playing in an empty server

[bitter timber]

raptors only survive if they can get free food

nothing u can kill either when ur lil

[manic flint]

I just scavenge

There are bodies everywhere

Even when I'm playing a herbivore I always run into like 3 unattended bodies

In the same spot

[karmic plank]

I'd disagree unless your target is a noob or occupied fighting something else. We've spent hours respawning and fighting stuff as utahs on my server, and pounce is just too easy to totally negate

All any target needs is one friend or a tree and you are impotent

And anything sitting in a fern clumps is literally impossible to pounce, while all of your targets abilities will phase straight through the ferns

Before this last patch you could punish fern camping through bites and slashes, but biting does negligible bleed (0 to big body targets like stego) and slash deals far too little compared to its end-stagger time

Slash does 2.3% bleed to a standing teno, for example, so you need to land 40+ slashes without letting it regen while a single slash from the teno can bleed you for a quarter of your pool if you keep running

So yes, Utah can eventually kill things but you need to play perfectly for repeated attacks - and have time/space to lay down to get Stam - while your target only needs to get lucky once

[cyan flame]

Once, for every pack member that is

And yes, it should take both time and effort. That's just how it should be

[karmic plank]

It's too much.

[cyan flame]

The tree thing is noted and will be worked on far as I know, so bucking becomes the go-to method

[karmic plank]

For something that you need to do regularly just to survive

[cyan flame]

Though far as I know, you can pounce even if someone is in a fern, pounce and disengage immediately

[karmic plank]

Negative, you just bounce off

And dismounting near trees is very very risky as well, more likely to get stuck

[cyan flame]

And landing 40 slashes sounds a lot, but if you're a 6-8 pack, it's not that much if you all pitch in

Hm, stuck?

[karmic plank]

Yeah, you rubber and back to the tree and get easily killed

[cyan flame]

Sounds more like another performance issue?

[karmic plank]

Plus if there's any slopes nearby, dismounting uphill is usually a death sentence

[cyan flame]

Yeah, that uphill thing needs to be a bit adjusted

Small hills should not be dangerous, but substantial slopes still should

Or so I think at least

But it should have to be a noticable hill to be effective

Not just a few degrees or so off from flat :p

[karmic plank]

Like I said, lots of people theory crafting and saying it's viable, but the boots-on-the-ground reality is very different

[cyan flame]

See, the thing is, I've tested too

And some of the stuff you say doesn't match my experiences so there is that

See the whole mind-game thing

[karmic plank]

It doesn't help that the power curve for most dinos now means below 90% -when you appear a full adult - you are very weak

So fighting a 90% stego is easy, and you might think you are fighting a FG

[cyan flame]

I've pounced things in ferns and not just bounced off, so not sure, maybe I just have been lucky, or things have changed

But then I also have a different approach if someone does just stand in the ferns, as you know

[karmic plank]

We spent 2-3 hours trying it last night

[cyan flame]

Maybe it has changed then

[karmic plank]

4 utahs vs various targets

[cyan flame]

But I've never felt that I can't pounce in an area, even if someone is hugging a tree, they still got a side free, you can pounce/disengage far as I know

Even if they turn, it won't be fast enough

Well, 4 utahs is only half a pack :p

[karmic plank]

Yes, for stegos you can do it if you front-quarter pounce. Rear quarter or tail pounce the can swing through the tree and knock you off

[sacred moat]

current utah stats arent bad though??

[karmic plank]

On paper, maybe.

They have less than half their old HP, less than half their old damage, less overall stamina

[sacred moat]

only thing i would change on utah is its agility while sprint turning and safe disengage on a pounce

[pale bloom]

Less agility

[sacred moat]

and the fact that hills are your worst nightmare

[karmic plank]

Pounce is better in some ways but you rely on your target not knowing all the counters

[pale bloom]

Utah is trash and I'm gonna keep that on mind as self opinion, and yes I did testing, I tested most stuff besides Dryo and PT

[sacred moat]

but other than that? imo utah is in a pretty good spot

[cyan flame]

Agility is the inertia, which is being worked on

[karmic plank]

I'll accept that utahs are viable when I get threatened by them even once as an adult

[sacred moat]

could you tell me what you would like changed on utah?

[pale bloom]

I wouldn't say Utah is a "Good spot" you just pick it now to stay on rocks, hunt AI Dryos, Bork and die

[karmic plank]

They can't be dedicated cradle robbers, that isn't viable

[cyan flame]

Nor should they be

But let the devs fix the obvious bugs and assorted issues first you know :p

[karmic plank]

I don't have an issue with their HP, happy with them being glass cannons

[pale bloom]

Agility definetly needs a touch. A ton of bug fixes and situations related to pounce and maybe slightly increase the bitteforce to 70-80N

[karmic plank]

But right now they are glass wafflebats

[cyan flame]

How long did it take in your tests to hunt something?

[pale bloom]

Then I can say Utah still a usable and a playable that has future, but for now is Carno food

[karmic plank]

Let's not descend into this whole "but surprise gives you some massive intangible advantage"

[cyan flame]

Why not?

[karmic plank]

Find a single spot more than 10s run from a tree

[cyan flame]

If you're just testing open combat, then you're not thinking survival

[sacred moat]

well they're currently fixing utah agility and pounce related bugs. But utah imo doesnt need a better bite force

[karmic plank]

Because that's all you need

[cyan flame]

That makes your tests.. not very useful

[karmic plank]

Justify that position.

[cyan flame]

If you're not even willing to entertain that there's more than the upfront fighting, then we balance for different aspects

[karmic plank]

I absolutely am, but you have failed to explain how it gives you the massive power buff required

[cyan flame]

@karmic plankIt is a survival game. That means, stalking, waiting for the right moment, playing mind-games, and so on, is part of a hunt. If you only test raw combat, you're not taking other things into account, that makes your tests only about numbers and nothing else

[pale bloom]

It does, a 30% grown Utah can't kill a fresh Deino actually, it needs waaaaay to many bites, and adult has the same issue in risky matchups where doing a bit of damage with bites doesn't hurt, like Utahs vs Tenonto

[karmic plank]

What mind games? All the need is a tree

[cyan flame]

And stegos sit by a tree every single minute?

[karmic plank]

How does stalking help bleed a target?

[cyan flame]

It helps with knowing and finding the right moment to start the attack?

Thus starting it when the prey is in the most vunerable position

[karmic plank]

And what would that right moment be?

[cyan flame]

Such as as far away from said tree as possible

[sacred moat]

The isle utah isnt a bite damage based dino. Its a dino that relies on its speed/agility to tire out its victims and then it bleeds them out

[cyan flame]

So that it has to choose between running to the tree, or bucking

[karmic plank]

Explain the absolute perfect possible engagement for a Utah Erik, and tell me how it gives them the advantage they need

Noting that 2s of bucking will drain Utah stam

[pulsar lantern]

Even if you fixed the pounce bugs with shallow water and tree collision, you wouldn't be able to fix the fact that stego can just find any minor incline, face the utah pouncing them towards it, have the utahs dismount distance be cut short when it jumps off and die.

[pale bloom]

Yes but to bleed out stuff you exclusively rely on pounce, and pounce has way too many issues right now to be used on anything/anywhere tool to bleed

[cyan flame]

Wouldn't the "incline" also be fixed

So it actually requires a decent incline and not just a tiny degree

[pale bloom]

And a fresh Croc shouldn't tank that many bites from a Utah bigger than it, makes hunt them not worth Lol

[sacred moat]

right but they are currently working on fixing those exact pounce bugs

[pulsar lantern]

Not really? Thats another type of issue that wouldnt be fixed unless you made utah dismount send the utah flying higher than the stego lol

[karmic plank]

I've been fighting a carno as a teno and been ambushed by a pair of utahs, never saw them coming and I was in the worse possible position. They were still no worse than a distraction

[pale bloom]

I hope so, otherwise I wouldn't play Utah ever again

[karmic plank]

Buck, slam, and they ran

[pulsar lantern]

which might work granted, but would then make a level ground dismount look odd, unless you could dynamically adjust it based on nearby elevation. (which i don't see being feasible)

[karmic plank]

Even if they helped the carno kill me, they would never have gotten any food out of it

Carno won't share

[feral solstice]

Or I frames, though that could get a little unbalanced

[karmic plank]

I-frames are not something that would fit in TI imo

[cyan flame]

Alright. First of, I should not even know you're there until there's 2-4 on me, pouncing away. Then you need to have set up so you can intercept if I try to run this way or that. Preferably you wait to attack until I'm eating, so I'm the most distracted. If I go for the trees, I need to run there, giving your pouncers all their time. If I stop to buck, you can reposition so the next wave can take over, forcing me to stay there again and buck, while letting you stack more bleed. Maybe even have the first buckers move into the ferns so I have to worry about getting bit. Even if it doesn't do much, it will still do something. And so on. I can't give you a "perfect engagement" because that depends on what the prey and predators do, in the given circumstances. But I'm trying to explain that it's not just about the combat itself, but also everything leading up to it and around it.

[cyan flame]

I mean, it depends on how big the incline should be to matter. A decent slope should be useful as terrain, but a few degrees higher shouldn't really make a difference.

[pulsar lantern]

probably, I would just make it so utah can survive one bodyshot from stego as a safety net to account any weird general fuckery with pounce/ping/bugs etc. Then you have capped HP so the utah can't instantly heal back their safety net and go back in without fear of dying.

[karmic plank]

Great, except your magical spot away from trees means no cover, and you are still relying on your target being noob and unable to see a pack if utahs running up to them

[cyan flame]

Could always add a manual dismount for that, costing stamina. And have the normal dismount for no terrain in effect. Or something like that.

[karmic plank]

You cannot have a dinos whole playstyle be "get lucky and attack a noob"

[pale bloom]

I would agree on this, but then bucking needs a touch

[cyan flame]

Well, you'd sneak around, take the long road around. You know, not just run up in a pack. I'm not even meant to know how many there are of you.

[karmic plank]

You cannot sneak across the plains

If there are no trees there is no cover and you can, at best, get 50m away without being seen

[cyan flame]

No but you can have something that requires a set-up, just like how a deino has to set up near the shoreline but still hidden, at a good spot. And you'd be surprised at how bad at seeing things people are. Use the hills, use the fern clusters, use a distraction at that.

[karmic plank]

I'm happy to see a VoD of utahs hunting someone decent

[cyan flame]

I'm sure we'll see changes to both bucking and utah bleed when the bugs/issues are fixed

[karmic plank]

But I think your theory crafting is still based in fantasy

This is not a paperback novel

[cyan flame]

People will make mistakes and mess up, and you do hunt the ones that do so. That's part of choosing the prey and all that I would say.

Well, that's on you if you'e not had those sort of experiences, but I have

So.. I don't know what you want me to tell you there

[karmic plank]

And still the requirements and skill level and luck is just excessive. Look at all you said this Utah pack has to successfully pull off. While me, a happy little teno, just needs to be near a tree

They have to do that every 30 min, too

Meanwhile I'll just wander around and munch on grass

[pulsar lantern]

To be fair I think Utah is a viable ambusher thanks to size and should be encouraged to ambush to save stam for it's actual pounce. The problem with the stego matchup now is that utah can only pounce against stego and if stego is in a position where it can't be pounced there's nothing utah can do. Biting was a viable alt strat before this patch, but now the bite dmg has been nerfed so much that coupled with the stego HP buff it's not worth risking being oneshot.

[cyan flame]

I don't want to pull "rank" with the whole hours ingame shit. But I've played almost since this game came out. I've been through all kinds of experiences, so you saying it's a "fantasy" is... well, suffice to say it does not at all match with my experiences in this game.

I don't know what else to say, maybe you've never had those sort of hunts, but I have, so... I can't really do more to convince you I don't think

[karmic plank]

Like I said. Record it and provide it. I have my own extensive experience, and what had been said is nowhere near enough to sway that, much like I'm sure is the case for you

[cyan flame]

And food drain times should be increaesed, maybe food values should too, though I'm wary about megapacks again so there is that. But those are other issues. Hence why there are more modifiers to work with than just making utah more like pre-balance patch.

[karmic plank]

And the lack of any threat from utahs in official supports me

[cyan flame]

Pretty much. And I would, if my laptop could run that sort of shit ^^

Though since most of it is from legacy and before.. well.. hard to prove things in the past :p

[karmic plank]

If Utah hunger time was pushed out to 1:30 or 2:00 long, sneaky, luck-based plays would be more viable. I still don't think it would be enough

[cyan flame]

And that is a fair point, but my counter to that is that the water is a bug and should absolutely be fixed. The tree/rock thing, while I am in favour of that and inclines having meaning, because terrain interaction is good, I agree that it needs some work. But that's just it, I want to see work on that in the first place. Before we fiddle with stats again. I also want to see bucking being the primary defense against pouncing, which also requires trees/rocks and stuff to be less powerful.

[karmic plank]

Like I said, my server is very chaotic when busy and there's often 3-4 utahs trying to ambush someone fighting someone else. I would rather fight 4 utahs than 1 carno

[cyan flame]

I think it would. I'd say 75 min would be fine as a start. I do think utah, being an attrition hunter, should have more food time than a carno, being a rushdown hunter.

Would also help utahs form proper packs if they can afford it with the food :p

[karmic plank]

Our Utah is way too scrawny to have those sort of fat reserves, though. I still think the current Meta needs legacy corpses which always leave something behind for small scavangers

Utahs as primarily scavengers with a side of lethality against juvies and people out of position/unaware/weakened from previous fights would be fine imo

[cyan flame]

Legacy corpses would be nice. Legacy footprints would also be nice.

But utahs should not be primarily scavengers, I don't think anything really should, more so be more effective at it perhaps

Even solo utahs should be hunters before scavengers

[karmic plank]

I'd love it if was just a case of "Agouti you are just a shit Utah, THIS is how you do it" but I feel like I've been beating my head against a wall trying to make them viable

Like you can kill carnos if you have a teno to keep them occupied, but that's mixpacking basically

If they don't know how to stop you dismounting safely, you can do it, but that's rare

[pale bloom]

Cera will have the abilities to be a good scavenger tought

[karmic plank]

The real power of trees btw is not just brushing up against them, when you get pounced you point the Utah at the tree and make them dismount into it

Then just kill them

[pale bloom]

I just wish it doesn't turn into a scavenger exclusive playable

[karmic plank]

Also @cyan flame apologies I've been coming across a bit aggressive, just been getting frustrated with utahs lately

And the number of people who are just like "yeah good screw utahs, let them get nerfed into the ground"

[pale bloom]

You should know already that community hates Utahs

I tried to get the reasons but I'm not getting a good one yet

[karmic plank]

Probably a lot of frustration from losing babies to them while they bark from their unreachable rock

[pale bloom]

Some people say it's the JP design it has, while you can dislike it, being it bad or not it's completely subjective as it's like you dislike blonde hair over black hair

[karmic plank]

There's a deep running anti-JP sentiment too

[pale bloom]

I keep on my mind that's its Legacy Utah PTSD with the tailriding and stuff like that

[karmic plank]

Yeah, that too probably

And the weird docktahs

[pale bloom]

Docktahs were annoying but honestly inoffensive for most experienced players

Unless you were a juvenile

[karmic plank]

Legacy Isle was balanced like Mechwarrior, which didn't really work for a survival gsme

[cyan flame]

Being a good scavenger and primarily scavenging is not quite the same thing, at least not to me.

[pale bloom]

I used to hunt docktahs with my Allo and have lots of fun ambushing them

[limber hull]

i think people are still salty from their legacy days of horrible controls determining fights outcomes rather than skill and combat knowledge

which is fair

because i got salty when i had to deal with that shit

[pale bloom]

People needs to learn to forget, Legacy is gonna die sooner or later, that stuf doesn't matter anymore

[karmic plank]

Prejudice is never a productive trait

[cyan flame]

I'd say that would be a smart use of terrain honestly, or at least more to my taste than just "turn and rub". If you can use the terrain to limit their dismount and thus catching them, that seems more preferable to me.

And I'll apologize as well. I get it, I really do. I don't want the utah to be useless, believe it or not. I just want it to take proper long and hard hunts to down big prey. Aside from that, we just clearly have very different experiences in our gameplay, so what works for one of us the other one has barely even tested. So no wonder we disagree so severely on how to play :p

[limber hull]

playing a fullgrown rex and losing it to a fucking dilo is inexcusable

[cyan flame]

You'd be surprised how many people hated them, despite them just.. being there, and not really forcing themselves on anyone else... :p

[pale bloom]

That's understandable Lol. Thought on my 400 Legacy hours I never died as Rex to a Dilo, even when many tried

Maybe got lucky that I don't got swarmed by them tbh

[karmic plank]

It probably doesn't help that the people I'm usually testing with a pretty skilled and put thought into "ok, what is the optimal way to counter this?"

[pale bloom]

Yeah I kinda disliked them too but there was many other stuff I also disliked

[cyan flame]

That should help, it just needs to be taken a few steps further perhaps. How do you counter the counter.. and around we go, basically :p

[pale bloom]

It's not a reason to hate the playable, but the players

[karmic plank]

Like we had optimal playbooks for carno vs 1 stego, carno vs 2 stego, all that stuff. Counting tailswings, estimating Stam regen and bleed, so you don't fall for stegos faking no stam

[cyan flame]

It's fine to dislike them, but.. well, suffice to say, docktahs = roleplayers, and people hate roleplayers because of the docktahs, never mind that their kind of roleplay is not what me and many others mean at all :p

[cyan flame]

You know. I need to use that argument vs the people who think hidden stats are good. I'll poke you if I need to prove my point to them at any time.

[pale bloom]

I did hate Herbie roleplayers on ruled servers, a lot actually, so it's not a docktah exclusive behavior

[karmic plank]

There's stuff like teno kick can only hit one target, so a pair of tenos can defend their flanks with kicks really easily

[pale bloom]

But yeah I understand it

[karmic plank]

Absolutely. Why give people like me with time and friends and a server an advantage over normal people? That's not fair

[cyan flame]

Though the fact that carno vs 1 stego, much less 2 wasn't just "give up" is beyond me :p

But yeah. You've proven that "meta" and such happens even if we don't get stats, which takes away that entire argument

And if you can prove so with said guidebook, all the better honestly

[karmic plank]

Funnily enough carno vs stego is still viable if they are a noob stego

[cyan flame]

And no. It's not. Especially when we don't even have sandbox for normal play and natural practice.

[karmic plank]

I managed to 1v1 one last night

[bitter timber]

ask any raptor player

utah sucks

[cyan flame]

But yeah. Next time you see someone say "hidden stats good, no meta", just shove your playbook in their face ^^

[bitter timber]

this patch

its the worsdt

worst

[pale bloom]

Oh boy that Stego who spams right clicks on the air :D

[karmic plank]

Haha will do. Also trying to spread the exact numbers as wide as I can

[bitter timber]

i dont get how u people can say that utahraptor is still viable

it legit blows my mind

[karmic plank]

Yeah that moment when you nibble their tail and they swing... Just like hell yeah

[limber hull]

@lavish quail im glad you like my suggestion enough to bump it lmao

[karmic plank]

I gave it a tick just for being nicely formatted and easy to read haha

[limber hull]

thats what i do

[karmic plank]

That and crash servers

[limber hull]

if i make my design work cluttered, it doesn't work

im a game designer, i like neatly presented concepts

[honest sparrow]

I’m sorry but seeing the word lockjaw just makes me crack up now, even tho it’s a solid cera suggestion

[limber hull]

What's up with lockjaw, you have me intrigued

[honest sparrow]

So for the longest time right, there was this guy named cocoajin

[karmic plank]

[icy lion]

oh you just unlocked some cursed memories

[limber hull]

i dont know this deep and cursed lore man im just going off lockjaw as an actual thing animals do

[honest sparrow]

And his thing, the thing everyone knew him for was: tarbo suggestions

[limber hull]

I see

[karmic plank]

Tarbo?

[limber hull]

ahahahaha

[honest sparrow]

And every time he talked about it, he would suggest the lockjaw idea

[limber hull]

Tarbo is infamous in this community apparently for getting many suggestions for essentially a rex clone

[honest sparrow]

And would talk on and on about how it completely changed its niche

[icy lion]

you know whats even better

[limber hull]

Because it's legit basically a rex clone

[icy lion]

rex was confirmed to get a pin attack

which was his lockjaw idea

[honest sparrow]

So now it’s an inside joke 90% of the time

[limber hull]

Ahahahaha, sorry if I look like his alt then :P

That's hilarious tho

[honest sparrow]

Na all good I just thought it was funni

[icy lion]

"lockjaw" triggers the sleeper cell in some of the older members

[honest sparrow]

^

[limber hull]

I'm quite proud of my cera idea, I might think of doing more dinos, I always love designing shit

[karmic plank]

If I could change your nickname to "average tarbo enthusiast" I would, wavepoole