general-feedback-discussion

[hybrid matrix]

its bugged because its a beta test
maybe you're the 8 year old?

[glad dirge]

It's even more boring to have a chore of growing other dinos first before you get to be a big baddie

[grand magnet]

I just yeeted myself off a cliff by accident as carno lol

[paper oriole]

F

[grand magnet]

can't see much in the thick brush

[swift dew]

i just told you what the long term goal of the game is, become the best you that you can be by getting the perks from going to the forever sleep as an elder multiple times

[hybrid matrix]

but wrong channel

[glad dirge]

I really hope the perk system doesn't direct affect combat

Like the mutation suggestion

Growing to elder to to have more health or somethin

[rare folio]

combat in this game also is so boring. whoever get the first chomp as adult wins

[glad dirge]

Not necessarily

[rare folio]

need some critical hits or something different

[hybrid matrix]

r u sure we're talking about the same branch?

[glad dirge]

Yeah are you... talking about legacy?

[hybrid matrix]

to me it looks like ur talking about legacy

[swift dew]

locational damage is a thing, at least in evrima if you talking about legacy then yeah, legacy combat sucks

[paper oriole]

Critical hits tend to be RNG and that's lame. Critical locations to hit is good

[glad dirge]

Something to aim for not time at or angle at

[rare folio]

i dont think there is locational damage. the crocs dont evne have a collider on the tail

[hybrid matrix]

also
if perks directly affect stats then it should be like "health/weight+ but speed and stam drain-"

[paper oriole]

There is headshot damage rn

[hybrid matrix]

😬

[icy lion]

theres many hit regions

hit regions are separate from collision

[paper oriole]

When more combat mechanics like fracturing come out locational damage should be a lot more clear/fleshed out

[swift dew]

the only perks that should boost your character without penalty are the elder night night perks, the regular perks should have benefits in one area, but problems in another, such as more weight/health, but you are now slower (which is bassically what derp said)

[glad dirge]

absolutely, gain in something should decrease something else. Trading stats instead of gaining

[paper oriole]

Law of equivalent exchange

[rare folio]

if you have different things to choose from there doesnt have to be a downside cuz its variety in what you choose

[glad dirge]

wut

[hybrid matrix]

yeah but they elder perks shouldnt affect stats then
it should just be stuff like greater scent range, or slower hunger drain, stuff that doesn't give you an advantage in combat

[hybrid matrix]

????

[paper oriole]

It's sacrificing some of one stat for more efficiency in another depending on your playstyle, what's the issue with that?

[silver zephyr]

eh, I'd prefer if normal perks are just QOL things and elder perks give you a positive and a negative to create new playstyles

[rare folio]

why would there have to be a downside in another though

[hybrid matrix]

the problem is that the perk has a downside

[glad dirge]

Precisely, I dont wanna fight something thinking I can win when they are just goin hehehhehhehhe I have more health and stam and bleed resistance because I became a grandma 10 times there's no way I can lose

[hybrid matrix]

because then its just an advantage

[rare folio]

wrong because everyone can choose the perk they want

[silver zephyr]

so people arent out right better than others

[rare folio]

so if everyone has the same you dont have any advantage

[silver zephyr]

[glad dirge]

[hybrid matrix]

yeah but nobody is gonna do that
everyone will get different perks
meaning that combat will always be unbalanced

[rare folio]

yea and thats good

[glad dirge]

Thats

No

[hybrid matrix]

....

[icy lion]

imo id prefer the opposite haha, give you flexibility to change your playstyle during your life and make it so you dont have to fully commit to one

[hybrid matrix]

i dont....

i dont even wanna say anything here

[glad dirge]

[hybrid matrix]

splaashed dont u see the problem with unbalanced combat?

[rare folio]

i dont wanna have a croc standoff where the first bite just wins. if you had perks you would have for example a damage advantage if the other one went for a speed advantage. and if you have a stamina or speed advantage you could get away from them

[hybrid matrix]

ok theres no way in hell that damage perks are gonna be a thing

thats just flat out stupid

[rare folio]

could also be something where they bleed out quicker or need to crouch in order to heal or something similar

[hybrid matrix]

damage perks are like legacy rex (or deino)
everyone flocks to it

and then the ppl who try to have less popular perks get shat on\

[paper oriole]

It would be more like. One of you sacrificed speed for hp, the other sacrificed hp for speed, you will likely win the facetank but they have the advantage to run away now and you don't

[hybrid matrix]

🤨
wuts the point of either of these perks

and also

a perk for bleeding out faster is a dmg increase

and wtf is that second one

i....

im speechless

i have no words

[rare folio]

whatever

[paper oriole]

If it did 75% of original bleed damage and it just drained 25% faster per application it could do something but idk what the point is really

[hybrid matrix]

no rlly
explain

[paper oriole]

Draining less bleed but doing it faster could be a perk rather than just draining bleed faster with no sacrifice

[rare folio]

if you would have to crouch to heal you could chase someone to death till they bleed out so you force them to attack back or die unless they can get away as raptor with jumps or water crocs flying pter

[paper oriole]

What

[hybrid matrix]

this is legacy combat

legacy combat

IS THE WHOLE POINT OF EVRIMA

EVRIMA IS SUPPOSED TO BETTER THAN LEGACY

:)

does that clear it up?

[rare folio]

?

[hybrid matrix]

in legacy a utahraptor could kill a tyrannosaurus rex

[rare folio]

i only played evrima

[hybrid matrix]

with perks like the ones ur suggesting, that could come back

[paper oriole]

@tranquil frost they have hypsi start at adult rn because the juvie would be so small it would be abysmal in the current ecosystem. Also wrong channel

[tranquil frost]

Ah ok

[paper oriole]

Imagine troodons getting a bunch of venom perks and 2v1ing a shant lmao

Why flat damage perks are bad especially if they can be stacked

[rare folio]

also what i dont understand is why crocs can only right click (grab attack) from the water to the land but not if they are in the water

[paper oriole]

@hard bane ptera weighs less than a dryo and can only pick things up with its beak, the only things it could kidnap are compies and juvie hypsis or straight up fresh hatchlings lol

[rugged quarry]

Imma need someone to tell me how the taming system wouldn't be completely ignored, because as I understand it, it is a negative for both parties involved. I understand there would be forceful coercion but people have already expressed that they would not cooperate while playing dinosaur.

[paper oriole]

Best to wait on quetz for any predatorial gameplay, ptera is a scavenger and fisher

[hybrid matrix]

if u dont cooperate
the tribals kill u

[hard bane]

Ah, I see, point taken. Grabbing fresh juvies would still be fun haha

[hybrid matrix]

simple as that

[paper oriole]

Maybe our murder giraffe quetz can grab kids and throw them off a mountain

[hard bane]

That would be fantastic

[swift dew]

unless the utah is enslaving the tribal, i mean for all we know this could happen. our utah is a jp raptor clone and they were saying it was the second most intelegent animal in the planet (second to humans ofc)

[rugged quarry]

That's why i claimed it was a negative, tons of effort and maybe lives wasted on capturing.

[hybrid matrix]

not much effort if there are hours of ur life at stake if u decide not to listen

[rugged quarry]

But then you're playing a game on rails if you're captured. lotta keyboard smashing and monitor punching in both scenarios.

[rare folio]

arent dolphins also very intelligent

[hybrid matrix]

wut does that have to do with anything

[rare folio]

im not talking to you

[glad dirge]

Question is still valid though

[swift dew]

still dont know how this has to do with anything but anyway

[rare phoenix]

i remember the talking about perks, and they'd be things that would affect your survivability by a small amount, but not anything like "X perk gives more damage".

For example: extra 5 minutes underwater as a deino, less stamina consumption climbing altitude on a ptera, increased jump height on a utah, improved braking on a carno ect

bearing in mind these are examples, not what they decide they could be

but from memory i think they said they wanted to avoid having damage perks ect because... well, people would feel like they have to take those

[glad dirge]

yay

[dapper fern]

has the new dinos came out yet ?

[glad dirge]

Not other than the stress test

[dapper fern]

ok

[paper oriole]

lmao "utah is underpowered" you should be a comedian broh

[barren zephyr]

I mean it’s not THAT strong, but it definitely isn’t underpowered

[paper oriole]

it's excellent in groups right now ans still survivable on its own

[barren zephyr]

two Utah’s can shred a carno pretty easily too

[paper oriole]

two utahs can shred deinos and stegos

[barren zephyr]

Scam game

[paper oriole]

buff utah give it kaio ken and lazer eyes it's too underpowered i can't oneshot a carno

[barren zephyr]

no no, it HAS to one shot rex!

[paper oriole]

utah broadcast should deal AOE damage and inflict full fracture damage

[swift dew]

i dont see why not

[paper oriole]

yeah seems like a perfectly logical way to fix this poor, underpowered and neglected dino

[barren zephyr]

scam

[swift dew]

and while we are at it lets nerf dryo, its the most op dino in the game

[barren zephyr]

nerf ptera and give it -0.1 stamina

[paper oriole]

ugh yeah the fact that i, the amazing utah, can't just walk up to a dryo and kill it without it trying to run is absurd

it should be balanced like the taco ai in legacy so it can't escape

legacy was way more balanced because utah could kill apexes by biting their legs just like intended!

[barren zephyr]

600 pound gecko kills 8 ton monster-legacy

[paper oriole]

sounds balanced to me

[barren zephyr]

think I’ve heard some rumors of a Utah killing a pue. Honestly, I believe it.

As a solo Utah I’ve held off 3 adult deinos at once

[swift dew]

utah needs a buff

[barren zephyr]

And when 4 more came another Utah came. Sure we didn’t kill em. But everytime they came out of the water, we sent them running right back in

[paper oriole]

yes but wouldnt you like to be able to hold SIX adult deinos at once?

deino shouldn't even be able to look at a utah without taking damage

[barren zephyr]

deino shouldn't even be able to look at a utah without taking damage
@paper oriole damn right

Yeah no

Utah is fine the way it is

“Utah is underpowered”

[paper oriole]

idk what bio zmasher is doing as a utah but what ever it is, it isn't right

[swift dew]

correction, "its way underpowered"

[barren zephyr]

😦

[paper oriole]

isn't there utahs literally soloing stegos rn?

aren't juvie utahs kicking deinos' asses?

[barren zephyr]

yes utahs can literally murder solo stegos it’s insane

1v1

Scenario

I suck against stego’s but as a juvi Utah I can send adult deinos into the drink lol

makes sense

Give deino a tail slap attack thou. Please. Crocodiles slap lions like bitches if they get to close. I wanna see Utah’s fly

[paper oriole]

yeah it kinda baffles me that they didnt give deino a slap

both megalania and deino should have one

[barren zephyr]

to be fair deinos usually run in the water to almost anything. I was literally a sub Utah and two adults ran back into the water

Yeah cause deinos know their animal is broken. And not in the good way

500 newtons

[paper oriole]

hopefully when fracture comes deino can squish utahs it grabs too since it doesn't even oneshot utahs as full adult

[barren zephyr]

I know it’s not meant for head to head combat. But it’s a pathetic giant skink that happens to like water

[paper oriole]

it really feels like something that was balanced for fracture but doesn't have it right now

[barren zephyr]

Literally

[paper oriole]

needs better grab so it can grab while swimming + fracture while swimming/lunging

[barren zephyr]

Deinosuchus needs high fracture if it’s going to have a meh biteforce

[paper oriole]

it's perfectly fine that its bite isn't meant to be its kill attack but it needs fracture and a more reliable grab to make it do what they intended

[barren zephyr]

Playing deino feels like attacking things with a pair of paper scissors.

But it’s got the looks and size of something that would have jaws that could train over stegos-

But still it’s left pathetic and weak

they said they’ll be changing it once more playables are introduced so they may increase the bite damage

If they don’t change it to a level where Utah’s get one shot, and stegos get 2 to 3 shot, head shot. I’ll loose all faith in humanity

[paper oriole]

Both stego and deino need a buff as bigger things come out

Or they will be merked by allos, albertos etc like total jokes

[rare phoenix]

the only thing deino really needs is a swimming grab to be able to grab bigger dinos that are swimming because... buoyancy ect would technically make them easier to pull down. And the additions of fractures to it's bite.

everything else is dependent on a good map design in terms of being able to avoid getting bonked by ballsy land carnis/herbis. There's very few places you can bail right now to heal outside of swamp that... they cant just cross over and beat you while you're trying to heal.

otherwise it's in a pretty good spot as an ambush predator.

[barren zephyr]

I think stego is fine as is. It’ll for sure be able to face tank allos and suchos if deino’s 500 bite doing nothing to it is anything to go off

What’s the plan for allos bite?

[dapper terrace]

@sleek ingot when you loose blood your heart speeds up, but your blood pressure is lower. Your heart then starts to spasm, in a process called fibrillation, where it has a sort of seizure. You would have heard of a device called a defibrillator, this shocks the heart into large, even beats, to stop it from spasming.

So no, your heartrate would no go down the more blood you loose.

[paper oriole]

Rn steg doesnt oneshot carno who is supposed to be a small game hunter so it needs a buff in the future. Deino could use a grab buff sooner imo

[sleek ingot]

Alright, I suppose that makes more sense.

[barren zephyr]

Also if they give the Allo, an animal which had an irl bite force which is at the strength of a lions, have a more damaging bite then the deinosuchus. I might just hop off the game and throw my computer through the window.

[paper oriole]

I thought the allo's lion bite force thing was debunked, tho i only heard it was i havent searched it up myself

Allo should rely much more on bleed and grapple than bite force though, I agree

[barren zephyr]

I’m in the dark on the debunk aswell

Pretty positive that Allo had a pretty decent biteforce for its size

But last I heard allos used their specialized teeth and jaws like knives to slash at prey and bleed it out

[icy lion]

the hatchet bite? outdated last i heard, id have to ask more about it though

[swift dew]

anyway, you wouldn't want to be bit by it

[snow dock]

anyone else have problems landin the lunge out of curiousity. like going straight thru dinos on lunge?

[paper oriole]

hatchet bite would look cool but not really necessary esp since allo is getting grapple

the isle devs dont really seem to care how outdated info is as long as they think it looks cool

hence the generic land theropod spino

[barren zephyr]

But I really think deino should get its bite force doubled across the board. I don’t care what other people think of it. Having stegos face tank 4 of something heavier than them without a care in the world. And juvi Utah’s surviving the bites of adult deino’s is beyond the highest levels of stupidity. And if it’s not stegos or Utah’s killing deinos it’s other deino. But that’s a personal compliant that has nothing to do with bite force. It DOES have to do with an adult stego and deino teaming up to kill me, as a fellow adult deino minding my own business

[paper oriole]

due to stego and deino taking the same amount of time to grow it makes sense that deino doesnt just 2 shot stego, or it would need to have a longer grow time than it, but it should definitely oneshot those scrappy novaraptor rejects, juvie carnos and raptors, and juvie stegos which it currently doesn't apparently

[swift dew]

to be fair, a juvi utah surviving a bite to the tail makes sense, someone could stomp a lizard with high heels on the tail and it wouldn't die

[paper oriole]

with fractures however hopefully that juvie utah would get a broken tail and have his mobility totally screwed

[barren zephyr]

Except a deino would either tear the tail clean off killing it through bleed. Or catch it between its jaws and do with the juvi what it pleases.

[manic flint]

If you lunged that is...

Also this is a game so balance

[barren zephyr]

Lunge is buggy right now and using it against something like a juvi Utah shouldn’t even be needed to kill it. It’s a pest to something that’s 8 tons. One bite should kill it. Period

It’s a baby up against a creature that should be able to one shot it’s adults. But it can’t even kill the baby of said adult

What kind of balance is it when said child can force said adult 8 ton monster to retreat into the water to avoid being bled out?

[manic flint]

Tail attacks just do negligible damage now. You need to take the good with the bad ig

[paper oriole]

if the deino still can't demolish juvie utah with a tail bite after fractures come then there is definitely reason to rant about it

because that tail bite should cripple the juvie enough that its basically a death sentence

[barren zephyr]

I guarantee you that fracture damage will not be revived in tail hits.

Kind of like BOB but without skills to allow it.

[paper oriole]

i mean it won't surprise me if they don't do the logical thing and make bb apply to the very obvious balance tools of theropods but i can hope

[barren zephyr]

In the eyes of the devs they will use it to balance pachy so it can’t tail hit and run until something is to broken to move

[paper oriole]

breaking the tail of a theropod should be a good way to cripple its agility so i hope they do it

[barren zephyr]

Leg, body and maybe head shots will be

And I doubt they will

Sorry but with current deino. I’ve lost all hope in what they call balance

[paper oriole]

i mean, same kinda, not really because of deino but i haven't had faith in their balancing for a while lmao. but i can still hold a little hope and just be prepared for disappointment

like i think they got pteranodon mostly right at least

[barren zephyr]

I hold a bit of hope to. For cera and magy. But after the larger things come in cera probably won’t be able to outrun or hold its ground against something like a sprinting Allo

[paper oriole]

i have like 0 hope for magy tbh

[barren zephyr]

They got ptera right cause they have an example of what not to do. And that’s BOB ptera

[paper oriole]

there are many cool things they can do with cera too but i'll just doubt it will get any of it

so i can be happier if it does

[barren zephyr]

Also maggy’s defense might work for it. If they go the route I hope. Dinos that eat it will get sick from eating it’s skunk like corpse. Which would lead player killers to just hunt them for sport

But in a world of rules and restrictions. Killing a maggy wouldn’t even be a thought unless your something that could eat it

[paper oriole]

i am an herbi main and i already plan on KFSing magy

hopefully it doesn't suck as much ass as i feel like it will but if it does i'm gonna have 0 mercy for that mistake of a roster pick

[barren zephyr]

Also my cera ‘counter’ idea. Is something I really hope they implement

Well atleast I’m pretty sure maggy will be faster than stegos. So no stegos running around killing them

[paper oriole]

doesn't look like it will be outrunning allo though, can't even be sure on cera but if cera is slower or as fast as magy then i feel kinda bad for him

[barren zephyr]

On servers without rules I think maggy will be non existent. But again it has a defense in being inedible to most carnivores. I don’t think carno and bigger will be able to stomach them.

[paper oriole]

people in the isle kill for fun, the carnis and herbis both

[barren zephyr]

So on a server where there’s body down rules. And all that. It maybe useful

You wouldn’t wanna kill something you can’t eat just to guard it as you starve more

[paper oriole]

if it needs to be saved by bad rules on bad servers it's a bad dino sadly

[barren zephyr]

I know unfortunately

[paper oriole]

lol they should implement dirty ramen's ptera spin but make it take all its stam

[barren zephyr]

But maybe both cera and maggy get ‘counters’

[paper oriole]

cera and magy look about 50/50 in the concept arts, though cera is shown obliterating a magy while magy is just shown pushing cera over

[barren zephyr]

My idea for cera was as goes. Low man wins the leverage war, right? Things upto the size of Allo if running at a cera can be counter. Cera lowers its body under the upcoming attack, and bends its knees as it sweeps the leg with its head, and then whips its body up. Tumbling the creature over it. Being a lot stockier than carno, bary, and Allo it could give it enough time to run away, or counter attack

[paper oriole]

oh were you the one with the martial arts cera idea?

i liked that suggestion

[barren zephyr]

I was

Judo cera when?

WHEN I ask

[paper oriole]

would be pretty unique and make it so cera doesn't have to be awkward lightning fast to survive allos

[barren zephyr]

Exactly my thinking

I know cera isn’t gonna be that fast. And I know Allo will have a sprint/extra ambush thing under its belt. So in my eyes to compete with both the faster Allo and carno. Both being bigger than the cera. Give it a way to counter the speed with muscle and strategy

Play into what cera is/should be. A stocky brawler that chases smaller things off kills, and scavenges. But is powerful enough to defend itself if it needs too.

Also maybe incorporate the cera using its horns to bash the leg instead of just whipping its head into it. A horn to shin impact would definitely make a fragile legged carno think twice.

[paper oriole]

cera's horns look more like display than weapons though a non charged impact with them on your leg would definitely hurt like a bitch

would be cool to see a predator brawling with its build and weight rather than the usual bite and slap spam

at least defensively

[barren zephyr]

That’s why im pushing the cera counter idea so much. It just fits with it and would be a unique but sensible way to keep cera relevant when larger faster animals come in later.

@rough dome

Why didnt you lunge the baby stego?

also did you bite its tail?

Locational damage is a thing

also if you were in a position to bite a baby stego, you could have lunged it

which would have essentially one shot the stego

So its more of you not knowing how to play deino then it being underpowered

It’s not a matter of lunging it, or where your biting it. You. Are an 8 ton crocodile and your attacking a defenseless baby. A lunge shouldn’t be what’s needed to kill it. A single bite would crush it instantly. And it is under powered compared to what it could and should be.

[barren zephyr]

its a video game

and its balanced around the current cast

“real life” doesn’t matter.

[barren zephyr]

and again locational damage exist

he could have hit the stegos tail

So your saying in your video game you’d like to see a creature with jaws bigger than its prey not be able to kill it with a single bite? Or a juvi Utah bullying fully grown deinos into retreat into water? Or groups of stegos standing on both sides of a water way swinging their tails in the water a just killing everything?

and its balanced around the current cast
@barren zephyr cause all of that is very well balanced if you ask me.

[barren zephyr]

Those deinos must be trash then

not a single decent deino will die to a juvie utah

[barren zephyr]

again, its not going to be the case when bigger dinosaurs that could realistically deal with deino are added

They don’t die. They get punished. Forced to retreat to where a juvi Utah can’t kill them. If you’d like I can show you how it’s done, and how I do this.

we cant have a OP super powerful so early

[barren zephyr]

just kill the juvie utah

Alright. Grow your deino and I’ll spawn as a fresh Utah and show you what I mean

You CANT

As a juvi Utah you can hug the back legs and just bite all you want. Deino literally can’t do anything to you

video?

can the deino alt bite you?

[compact hare]

Alt bite, go to water

[barren zephyr]

I don’t record. But again. I could very easily just show you

[barren zephyr]

what about alt bite?

That also doesn’t hit

Going to water is the only option

Plus even if you bite it. You could only hit its tail. And that 20kg Utah could get away with its life from jaws big enough for it to live in

Start to see what I’m getting at here?

seems like deino needs a tail whip

Not a general buff though

[barren zephyr]

stuff like that isnt intented

It needs both a tail whip and a buff to jaw power.

[barren zephyr]

thats dumb

why does it a need a bite buff?

the next bigger carni is 1.8 tons and is a small tier hunter

giving deino absurd bite force would break the game

Give the old damage number to its tail. Give the bite a 750 damage number. Adult Utah’s won’t get one shot on tail shots but all the young juvis will

[barren zephyr]

old damage to its tail? Thats absurd

And adult Utah’s will get one shot if but in the body or head

250 N for tail damage

250 N for tail damage
@barren zephyr that seems fair actually

[barren zephyr]

I can get behind a small buff

how many hits would carno tank?

A tail whip and increase to damage. Carno would tank 3 from 750

If weight is health like it should be

[barren zephyr]

hmm

should tank 4

Carno tanks 3, Utah gets one shot

But considering the tail hitbox on carno 3 might be fine

This is body shots

[barren zephyr]

how many would stego tank?

I’m to lazy to do the math right now

But if health = weight they have 6000 health

I think?

They weight 6 tons

it would be a 5 shot

stegos HP might not have been buffed

no one knows atm

Which seems acceptable. A stego shouldn’t be standing in the jaws of a deino trying to face tank it anyway

[barren zephyr]

nah

then you get land deinos

2 deinos would shit stomp everything

just walking around on land, wouldnt be fair

this is why buffing deino is tricky

Would they? What do you think a herd would do to 2 deinos

[barren zephyr]

nothing

2 stegos a few tentos

stegos arent fast enough

Could still kill it easily

[barren zephyr]

how

are stegos galli speed?

Speed doesn’t matter in this match. It matters about how you use your stamina

And as we all know deino stamina is awful. As it should be

and besides, balancing things around groups of players is dumb

what if there isnt 5 stegos around to kill the deinos?

So herbivores are supposed to be solo players?

[barren zephyr]

Well you dont spawn in a herd

you spawn alone

No, but a baby shouldn’t be fighting anything as is

[barren zephyr]

is that relevant?

[sand oar]

Weight is not = health

[barren zephyr]

In a few ways it kind of is. If you spawn alone what would you do if you saw a pack of juvis or sub adults as a baby? Hide, fight, or run?

Are you gonna try to fight the bigger creatures?

[barren zephyr]

well you run and hide, how is this relevant

Not to the situation. But you lead it this way

[barren zephyr]

wdym

The point is if your a solo herbi player. You can easily escape a deino threat on land. Their stamina is awful and they maybe faster than an adult stego but they won’t give chase and leave themselves vulnerable. If they are do, they are as good as dead. A smart stego could solo force a deino retreat to water with ease. Thagomizer does to much bleed.

But in a group

A deino out of stam on land? It’s dead. No two ways about it. Sure it’s bite does more damage but what good is that bite if it has a tento clawing it’s back as stegos block it’s escape and can tank a few bites and get some stabs in?

hm, makes sense

I would prefer if it was buffed to 700 and utah got a health nerf to 700

Even if it’s bite gets buffed to 750 not much will change. Stegos and carnos won’t challange it in the water but on land it’s same old same old. Deino gets stomped by anything that knows it’s weaknesses and knows how to exploit them. And let’s put a nail into it’s on land coffin. Make tail swipe cost stam

[barren zephyr]

agreed

It’s moving around it’s massive tail, why wouldn’t that tire it? And once out of stam. A solo Utah would turn a deino on land to mince meat

750 is a bit too high though

What is current Utah’s health?

[barren zephyr]

750

It could use a health nerf though to 700

which is what I want deinos biteforce to be

Guess that’s acceptable

Would help out tentos and carnos too. But then again Utah was never supposed to be very tanky

yep, biggest buff to deino possible is making rivers deeper on average

I’d say biggest deino buff is in water dino grab

Cause carnos still like to chase players into the water to finish them off as they tank bites. Which simply shouldn’t be a thing

[pastel flicker]

@barren zephyr yeah that happened to me, i just starved to death :\

[mighty escarp]

@somber tree EU3 ?

[somber tree]

Yup.

@mighty escarp

[mighty escarp]

Oh, I was the steg lmao

[somber tree]

Haha...

Hope you don’t make a hobby out of murdering deinos trying to log off took 5 hours for that lol

[mighty escarp]

I guess you should hide to disconnect cause you were literally in the middle of the road so that's not really griefing

[somber tree]

Sure I could have hid better yes I admit, but when you’re a stego you have no reason to just go killing things when they haven’t done anything to you especially when they are logging off you literally gain nothing because you are a herbivore, which is griefing, I lost over 5 hours of time so you could have a little chuckle and carry on as usual. I understand it can get boring playing as a herbi for an extended period of time, but that’s not the solution. @mighty escarp

[unreal moat]

[floral saffron]

ok so renciel made a suggestion that ptera should be able to pick up some babies under very specific conditions, and made a good case for why its needed and how it would add to gameplay for other factions besides just ptera, but it got hella hate?? Its the one w/ a picture of a ptera carrying a fish btw, but i just wanna know WhY

[glass mulch]

Because it really isn’t needed

[somber tree]

Pteras grow quite fast so I feel it would be a waste of development time

[glass mulch]

Ptera can kill stuff smaller than it easily and it would feel very unfair fir whatever being picked up

[somber tree]

That too

[glass mulch]

Also Quetzalcoatlus is a thing that will be implemented

[somber tree]

Really 😮

[glass mulch]

Yes

We could play it in 2017

[somber tree]

Wow I can’t wait for that I love quetzels

[floral saffron]

im thinking a mechanic where both players click lmb or rmb as fast as they can tho and do a little bit of damage to one another until one dies, gives up, or "looses" the fight, kinda like a small minigame?

[glass mulch]

Yes but why?

Ptera is perfect as it is rn

[floral saffron]

well they kinda explained that? rn ptera is spectator mode, u dont rlly interact w/ other players

[glass mulch]

Ehhh

Getting killed by them is actually player interaction

[somber tree]

@barren zephyr J love that idea

[floral saffron]

never seen anything die to ptera

[glass mulch]

Im talking about ptera dying

[floral saffron]

like even babies. never witnessed it. also have been attacked by full adult pteras as a baby, survived it easily

ok well yeah that happens often

[somber tree]

It would make it feel a lot more pleasant dying lol @barren zephyr

[glass mulch]

Why do you guys want everything to be combat based

[floral saffron]

but that doesnt really make it fun for either party because theres no competition. if youre ptera and come within reach of a thing that wants you dead, like to drink or fish, ig ur dead. If ur a deino who's bored of fish, just wait near some and snag a ptera.

[somber tree]

I like being peaceful 90% of the time I only kill when I need food

[urban flax]

Ptera is currently the hardest thing to kill

[icy lion]

thats sort of the nature of a tiny flyer though

youre not meant to interact with things much

[somber tree]

Yeah

[floral saffron]

well what else is there? its a survival game, you eat, drink, explore, and hopefully make friends in the process. the only other thing IS combat

[urban flax]

It can bully pretty much anything

[glass mulch]

Yeah... that is just how it works

[somber tree]

They do need some sort of natural predator though I’d say

[urban flax]

Quetz is planned

[somber tree]

Can’t wait for that lol

[icy lion]

well, you just said it. you eat, drink, explore, and make friends. and ptera is better at exploring than anybody

[barren zephyr]

@somber tree Kinda what I had in mind too. Then you could also screenshot your final progress

[urban flax]

And at making friends too

[floral saffron]

suppose so. I'm not mad if it doesn't happen or anything i'll still love & play ptera, i was just wondering why it got so much hate

[icy lion]

mainly the griefing potential

[somber tree]

@barren zephyr yeah exactly you can have a cool stat sheet so it’s uplifting and less sad lol

[icy lion]

but on top of that its a pretty unnecessary mechanic for what the animal is

[urban flax]

I'd like a slightly stronger bite too because it can't even kill juvie dryos, but looking at how powerful ptera already is, it's better not to buff it.

[icy lion]

like maybe id be fine with quetz picking up tiny stuff, since theyre probably gonna be more terrestrial hunters, but at the same time the larger size just means more stuff it can troll

[somber tree]

Yeah the quetz will be hard to balance

[urban flax]

Quetz will probably be less manoeuvrable than ptera, so errors will be way less forgiving

[floral saffron]

yeah fr, i dont even have ideas for how to just off the top of my head

[somber tree]

Maybe there can be AI birds so the quetz can get some good without terrorizing

[urban flax]

Quetz can eat pteras

[floral saffron]

dude i want microraptor sooooo bad. cute little crows that bounce around forests being cute as hell?? LOVE IT

[somber tree]

Haha that’d be fun

[urban flax]

If ptera is spectator mode, then what's microraptor

[somber tree]

I’d love a therinzino

I think they could be the first omnivore

[urban flax]

Theri is coming

[icy lion]

therizinosaurus? its confirmed

[floral saffron]

i hope quetz are much faster but significantly less maneuverable, imagine seeing dog fights like that

[icy lion]

and beipiaosaurus is as well

[somber tree]

Oh awesome

[floral saffron]

spectator mode but tree edition

[urban flax]

But deinocheirus isn't

[somber tree]

Theris will bring balance to the force

Isn’t what

[urban flax]

Coming

[somber tree]

Oh I thought you said deinosuchus

[barren zephyr]

sucks to suck man

[somber tree]

😐

Dear god this community can be toxic lol

[pale bloom]

Is the worst thing of this game, the community

[somber tree]

@pale bloom I’m finding that out first hand right now lol I guess it’s normal to get griefed by stegos for doing nothing

[pale bloom]

Well I don't care much about the ingame stuff but the Discord could be really volatile sometimes

[paper oriole]

Right now KFSing is really the only fun thing to do ingame

[rugged quarry]

Before I propose a stupid idea I’m gonna run it thru here. There were part-time fresh water plesiosaurs (don’t worry they spent most of their time in fresh water the rest was in brackish environments) they acted much like the dolphins or seals of their time. I read up on plesiosaurs and learned that the necks weren’t noodley and were actually used to get an extra few seconds to sneak up on fish since fish sense vibration and the small disconnected head was harder to detect. Only thing I am not so sure about is it’s little quirk all the other dinos have and the fact that’s it’s fully aquatic (although a funny little seal belly hop could be the answer)

[hasty jackal]

but thats kinda dondis fault, his toxicity bred more toxicity

[paper oriole]

Can't just throw the blame on dondi, pvp games like this just beg for toxicity

It attracts it

[barren zephyr]

was I being toxic? Wasnt my intention, sorry.

[hasty jackal]

i guess, but his "fuck you if you dont agree with me attitude" makes it worse

[somber tree]

Idk where it comes from but I’m just trying to have a nice time as a dinosaur and I’m getting murdered by herbis for trying to go to bed

[barren zephyr]

its not really a issue

some people like playing the game like that

[somber tree]

@barren zephyr Nah not you the other guy that was the stego

[paper oriole]

Realistically an herbi like stego would have reason to kos a vulnerable deino but the person was probably just bored and KOSing for shits and giggles like everybody else is doing

Like buffalos attack some lion they see napping under a tree sometimes

[barren zephyr]

agreed

[somber tree]

A stego shouldn’t be able to kill anything it wants at all with 1-2 hits. I didn’t even have a chance to move because my screen was blacked out, only had 6 seconds left

Obviously smaller things yes

[paper oriole]

Stego doesnt 2hit deino unless you were little

[somber tree]

Nah I was 100

[barren zephyr]

sounds like it’s your fault for napping in a non hidden spot

[pale bloom]

I won't blame Dondi , tbh most of the toxicity is self created by people who wants to place their opinions above others and lots of big ego situations, also the groups off people reacting with cringy emotes makes it worst

[barren zephyr]

also stego 7 shots deino to the body, not sure about head though.

[paper oriole]

Doesnt stego take like 4-5 head shots to kill deino?

[somber tree]

Had other crocs around me and the area looked clear I was tired my dude just trying to go to sleep and getting punished for it

[barren zephyr]

thats the point

you get punished for not playing carefully

Even if you seem safe you should still have to play smart

[paper oriole]

Well if it makes things any better, you might have lost your deino to safelogging on a stress test server anyway

[somber tree]

But he has no reason to do it is my point he literally gains nothing

[barren zephyr]

he does

[paper oriole]

Some people losin their deinos and pteras when they log

[somber tree]

To get a chuckle? That’s about it

[barren zephyr]

he potentially made the area safer for a future younger stego

[somber tree]

I was peaceful

[barren zephyr]

You not having your adult deino COULD have safed a young stegosaurus from dying to you

it happens irl

[somber tree]

how was he making it safer, I was logging off

[barren zephyr]

herbies kill carnis irl to make the area safer

[paper oriole]

He gains a few moments of low risk entertainment and that's all people need to go around KFS

[somber tree]

I wasn’t attacking anyone anyway, was peaceful

[barren zephyr]

you eat meat, he is made of meat

and you were out in the open vulnerable

[somber tree]

I was logging off though I wasn’t threatening him in any way, there was no children either

I see what you mean, but this dude was just doing it for shits and giggles

[barren zephyr]

why wouldn’t a meat attack a meat eater? The meat eater eats his kind

[barren zephyr]

probably was

but he could have been doing it for different reasons

KOSing “safe” carnis isnt bad

[somber tree]

You see I don’t though because the meta is so screwed up right now all a deino can eat for the most part is other deinos

[barren zephyr]

agreed

we need deeper rivers in general

[somber tree]

Exactly

[barren zephyr]

That way deino has more ambush spots

[somber tree]

Only reason I was even there was because I was trying to get fish

Was at the swamp

I rarely attack people only when I have to

[barren zephyr]

yep, getting to swamp as a centet deino is rarely fun

theres a massive shallow lake

[somber tree]

Yeah pretty much and not enough fish

Most deinos are cannibals because there is no food

Land creatures rarely stick around the water

[pale bloom]

Keep on mind you're playing stress test servers and people doesn't give a fuck, there's no rules. They will KOS, mixpack or do any kind of dirty trick to survive

Even abuse bugs

[somber tree]

Yeah I understand that, and I know it was partially my fault, but it doesn’t make it sting any less that was 6 hours down the drain

I would’ve been happy to die in an actual fight

Not like that

[pale bloom]

So first thing to do is to have that in mind and do things carefully, when I'm going for a safelog I check my surroundings and always check for a dense bush to hide

[somber tree]

I checked my surroundings and had another adult croc watching, I should have hid better though

There was no sign of any stegos he came out of nowhere

[pale bloom]

Well you can lose it anyways, people been losing Deinos randomly on server restarts, it's a thing you should be ready on

[somber tree]

I’ll probably just stick to pteranodon because it’s peaceful and you basically never die lol

Investing that much time and dying like that is a slap in the face

[urban flax]

@keen vapor That may be a weird opinion, but I prefer that players have to guess their stats and cannot base their actions on values. Though having perfect knowledge of your stats works perfectly fine for a fighting game, I feel that in a survival game, it's better for immersion to be left in the dark about some things.

[azure wadi]

^

[covert island]

i feel the lack of fish, and to steer away from the deino water fear players probably have, ik i do, i wish there were more ponds, or hard to reach water sources outside of the infested rivers.

[median karma]

Absolute brilliant job on the crocs!! I never imagined they’d be this good 😁 thank you very much👍👌

[barren zephyr]

@keen vapor I agree with more visible stats, but as said above, there are certain stats/info, that I prefer to be invisible/unknown. This have been mentioned before by someone, but battle battle scars could be a cool way to determine how many fights, and how much battle experience a player has.

Btw, can you wallow in mud as a deinosuchus? Cause I can’t.

[pale bloom]

No you can't

[lethal radish]

imagine full grown Pteranodons being able to pick up (small) prey with their back feet so they can let them plummet to their death or something? This is a feature in the game Primal carnage: Extinction and it'd be a good way to make them a little more aggressive for animals on land too.

[odd sedge]

Bruh, Pteras are too weak for that, save that mechanic for the Quetz who could actually be able to hunt smaller things and be better scavengers.
Ptera should stick to fish

[lethal radish]

i guess that's true

but if i had to choose between Pteras or Quetz then i think my answer would be quite clear.

it would mean many people would prefer playing a Quetz then instead

[odd sedge]

It depends

If Quetz have a different diet, growth time and playstyle over all, some people will prefer it. Sure. But some people will like Ptera more, for being quick to grow and easy to manage

[lethal radish]

yeah okay

but in my eyes playing quetzal would be more fun

i'm not saying ptera isnt fun though

[odd sedge]

That would be a personal thing.
People could say they prefer playing the Troodon over the utah, because of the different playstyle, even though they are both raptors

[lethal radish]

in the end it's always fun to see a more variety of dino's so i guess that kinda disproves my point entirely yeah

but still

it'd be cool to see flying dino's snatch others from the ground

[barren zephyr]

Are you supposed to be able to? Or is wallow disabled to deinosuchus on purpose?

[pale bloom]

No, teoricallly Deino has natural bleed resistance so devs decided to not add wallow for them

[barren zephyr]

Aight, thanks for the reply👍

[odd sedge]

I can agree on that though.
That would be so rad

[barren zephyr]

Yea, I hope the Quetzal gets that feature. Or maybe it could be a perk... Idk.

But it should have some weight limits of course

Like you can only grab half the weight of yourself maybe?

[icy saffron]

And one more hour wasted by a map making mistake... -253 892,219, -507 960,281, -32 476,848

[pliant haven]

@icy saffron where you in eu1?

[wanton hull]

If u want to fix the map issues report them in #🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞 not here

[cyan flame]

@devout sun Why would rex have a lower bite force? I'm not sure I'm seeing the reasoning here. But if rex were introduced right now, then it most likely would also be weaker than it would end up being in the end.

[devout sun]

Because rex had a lower bite force

as I mentioned, Deino should have and did have, a bigger biteforce than them all

That's it's thing.

[azure wadi]

Deino is balanced for the current roster, it’ll change in the future also since deino isn’t an apex it most likely will never be stronger than rex

[devout sun]

On land absolutely not

it would get cucked by a rex

[cyan flame]

Do we have to go through this again though? IRL is irrelevant! Game balance, and the way they design the playabled comes first and foremost. You can't make the argument that irl deino was stronger, because it doesn't matter. Ingame deino is not meant to be that kind of playable, at least not as of now, whereas ingame rex most likely will. Rex has always had the role of being the brawler of the big carnis, deino has not.

[devout sun]

Deinosuchus in name only

[cyan flame]

Can we please stop with the realistic arguments when devs have made it clear they've not made deino for that, but for a different purpose.

[devout sun]

is the popular opinion

I see

[cyan flame]

Yes, just like the utahraptor, and spino.

We don't have a utahraptor, we have a JP raptor. Same with spino, as the model shows.

It will behave according to what the devs want it to do ingame, realism be damned. Look at what they did to anky.. :p

[devout sun]

But why ruin another dino if you don't have too

[cyan flame]

Because they want the deino to do a certain thing, and no other playable works I guess?

Maybe if they had a smaller croc, it'd be different

[devout sun]

Deino can't do jack on land, bite force would literally be for defending itself on the riverbanks

[cyan flame]

I know, I'm not saying you're wrong in and of itself. I'm saying that game balance and purpose is the only thing that matters when they make their decisions.

[devout sun]

I agree

[cyan flame]

So any argument that x would have this or that biteforce, or that y will have to be stronger or weaker to "fit", doesn't work. Rex will have whatever biteforce they want it to do to make it work the way they want.

[devout sun]

and I think you could keep that intact with Deino

[cyan flame]

Just like it currently in legacy is a fast ambusher, even if irl rex does not do that :p

[devout sun]

actually even game-balance wise

rex could be weaker

[cyan flame]

And progression rex did not. So that changed too

And yes, you could probably up the deino biteforce a bit.

[devout sun]

Down stam on land

for sure

[cyan flame]

It's just.. the argument isn't really a good one because you're trying to apply irl comparisons to the game :p

[devout sun]

the first part of that suggestion falls under that catagory I think

but what about the rest, the giga and rex comment

don't you agree that people are REALLY scared of normality?

it would be so much more stupid if a rex DIDNT one shot lots of things

than if it did

balance it instead to be harder for it to get in position to 1 shot

like what I'm saying we need to do with Deino

[cyan flame]

Not really, because game first.

I wouldn't call it being scared of "realism" or something, rather that people put game balance and fun over it

Is it stupid if a rex does not oneshot a stego via headbite? I mean, yeah, I'm pretty sure if rex chomped a stego head the stego is done for. But is that fun? No I don't think so, so I'd argue against that, even if it would be perfectly reasonable.

[devout sun]

but making it so if a rex got to the head more than once

it wins, because why would it loose

one shotting is a touchy subject

[urban flax]

Behold, here I come with an argument
This shall be an argument I'm bringing forth since the old times

Biteforce isn't the only indicator of bite damage irl, so rex can very well have higher bite damage than deino in the game

[cyan flame]

It is, and one shots are bad unless growth time/difference is sufficiently big.

Since otherwise it's both not quite fun, and removes a bit of skill at that.

[devout sun]

I have an idea

Let me delete that suggestion

and type about how to rebalance Deino and the issues with it's current spot and playstyle

[cyan flame]

I don't disagree with upping deino damage a little, but your reasoning behind it isn't really good :p

[devout sun]

people might like that more

like the things we've talked about here over the last couple of days

[cyan flame]

I think that's my issue there. You're making a case but using arguments that are, well, not really good because we know there's shit in this game that doesn't behave like it would already, and we know there's things that will have to be buffed to survive unless you're pulling some "stay in one corner and never meet the other guy" thing :p

[devout sun]

That's fine and good

but whats the point in a rex

a giga

or the deino, which may have the single highest bite force in all of history

if it's gonna be the same strength as a carno

all of them

everything can't be a midtier

everything can't have a fair fight against everything

[cyan flame]

It's not the same strength as carno though, or, you're missing the rest I'd say.

You can't only look at biteforce, you need to look at the critter as a whole

[devout sun]

yah

[cyan flame]

Deino can most likely do a whole lot of stuff a carno can't, even if they have the same biteforce.

[devout sun]

I see what your saying

[urban flax]

If only the game's damage calculation system wasn't biteforce, this kind of debate wouldn't even exist...

[devout sun]

I was gonna talk about Deino using a totally different form of damage dealing in my next and probably last suggestion on the subject

it doesnt bite over and over to damage

it grabs something's something

a leg or a head

and pulls it to water

that's it's ONLY damaging attack

[urban flax]

You mean, like giving it a lunge as a special ability ?

[devout sun]

perhaps..

change it though

make it more useful

[urban flax]

Because it's not useful currently ?

[devout sun]

especially if your not gonna give Deinosuchus a Deinosuchus bite force

[urban flax]

Maybe deinosuchus does have a deinosuchus biteforce
It's just that biteforce doesn't equal damage

[devout sun]

yeah, if your hitting something smaller

[cyan flame]

Their choice of calling it biteforce is.. causing all sorts of issues yes :p Especially with using N as the value too :p

[devout sun]

Yeah

[cyan flame]

Why do we even know the damage really

They don't want us to know stuff in general

Just put it as a "strong/weak/average" something

[devout sun]

Erik but here's the issue with that

[cyan flame]

Like what it says on when you're wounded

[devout sun]

It's common knowledge that crocs have the biggest bite force

[cyan flame]

Like suffering/.. whatever else it says, don't recall, haven't gotten my ass kicked in a while :p

[devout sun]

so if you know your an almost 10 ton crocodile

[urban flax]

Yes, I'd really like if the damage indicator on character screen was removed
Since it's useless for herbies

[devout sun]

you KNOW you have a bigger biteforce than that guy

you feel stronger

but since the stats are hidden

[cyan flame]

It works for dryos Necro!

[devout sun]

you don't know that everyone kept it at 500

[urban flax]

Doesn't change anything about my point 😛

[cyan flame]

True enough :p

[devout sun]

hiding information wouldn't work, because with the way you and other people want it to go, that information wouldn't make much sense.

infering as someone who hasn't played would be a dead sentence

I'm a crocodile that's this big, that dino is this big, I bite it's head, it comes clean off

NOPE

you have to bite it 6 more times

[urban flax]

If you replace those infos with some hints as to how the creature is supposed to be played

[cyan flame]

You could still tell by "biteforce = average" that hey, maybe my main thing isnt to bite stuff?

[devout sun]

that might work better

like in the character menu

that would be cool actually

like a graph

[urban flax]

I still don't like the fact it's called biteforce
Because a croc has a way higher biteforce than a shark, but a shark's bite is much more devastating

[devout sun]

almost like the stats of guns in gun games

[cyan flame]

But I suspect the whole "I look this or that" is a learning curve

They don't want you to know, they want you to guess

[devout sun]

It's a learning curve I despise in all games

[cyan flame]

"Can I take this thing? Should I back off now?" and so on

Oh I can somewhat agree, just saying. They don't like us knowing the stats and all that.

You die, you should have been more careful or backed down earlier, or whatever :p

[devout sun]

You die, you should have remembered that your dino's name, size, model, and type, means jack about stats, and inferring that it would make sense was your mistake.

[cyan flame]

Agreed. Just call it damage, or power, or something. I don't know, something that works and gives you an idea of if you're a brawler or not. Same with speed, though it is nice to have the speed values, you do have exact ones so.

[devout sun]

bite force and brawler don't go together

a good example: Deino xD

[urban flax]

The best thing would be to have a little tutorial in the form of a diary page or something when we select a dino to know what it's capable of

[cyan flame]

Yup!

[keen vapor]

Its more like a quality of life feature. I want to at least have a rough idea of what i can or cant fight. Just telling you how much your dino weighs means absolutely nothing.

[devout sun]

Just an example, but something like this in the character select menu.

Deinosuchus

Power | 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛⬛

Size | 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛⬛⬛

Mobility | 🟩🟩⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛

Speed | 🟩🟩🟩⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛

Resistance | 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛

[urban flax]

Hmmmm

[keen vapor]

Yes!

[urban flax]

Feels too arcadey in my opinion, but still better than what we currently have

[devout sun]

I want it to be vague but telling if that make sense

"Low | Average | High" is really vague

and again with stats being so different from inferences that make sense, you want to be fairly exact

[keen vapor]

yeah players should perhaps also be able to see the dino concept art in the menu aswell

[devout sun]

maybe the chart can be 1-5 instead of 1-10

[keen vapor]

to give them a quick view over the dino

[devout sun]

Deinosuchus

Power | 🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛

Size | 🟩🟩🟩⬛⬛

Mobility | 🟩⬛⬛⬛⬛

Speed | 🟩🟩⬛⬛⬛

Resistance | 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Maybe that would be better

Resistance being like, bleed resistance, and environmental resistance

which Deinosuchus would basically be the best at

[cyan flame]

Replace size with weight and it might work pretty well.

[devout sun]

I thought of that

[urban flax]

What I was thinking was more like
Deinosuchus :
This terrifying predator haunts swamps and rivers, waiting for unaware prey to catch them and drown them in the water. Their thick hide and natural bleed resistance protects them from most threats, but as fast and agile as they are in water, they become slower and much less dangerous on land. Their heightened senses also allow them to detect any prey trying to cross the water spot they've settled in.

[devout sun]

Thats really great!

That might be a good idea too actually

[hybrid matrix]

i wouldn't say much less dangerous on land, bc u can still maul sub stegos

[devout sun]

People don't like that idea Derptah

[urban flax]

It's still less dangerous than getting jump-scared to your death in a split second

[devout sun]

Yeah ^^

[hybrid matrix]

[urban flax]

Or scare-jumped ?

[devout sun]

I've tended to notice people push for Deino to only do lunge

thats why bite force shouldn't change

so that Deino doenst turn into land predator

even though that's not a direct correlation

[hybrid matrix]

its scarier to get a heartattack jump than it is to get run down by a huge monster when you have no power to defend yourself?

[cyan flame]

Now make that + concept art/dossier like those old ones that existed, and that would be cool!

[hybrid matrix]

also im saying that full deinos can run down, and then kill sub stegos

how do i kno?

ive done it

[devout sun]

Yeah

[urban flax]

Haha I don't have enough free time to do this ^^

[devout sun]

I've had my fair share of land fights as a Deino

carnos, stegos, utahs, pteras

I feel immobile, but not weak

until I bite something

[cyan flame]

No, I meant that it should be done that way. That it should be a full dossier with art + text to show and describe what this playable is and what it does, and does not do. :p

[devout sun]

then I remember I am Deinosuchus in name only

and that I don't actually hurt

besides the aids hitbox

it's really tough to punish anything fighting you on land

you have to combo a carno just to do a little damage to it

and unless it freaks out and gets stuck on you, it's fatal mistake is just a minor setback

[hybrid matrix]

yeah no deino has enough stam to catch a sub stego (20 feet away) and then some (which is used for mauling)

[devout sun]

no deino has

or should have

[hybrid matrix]

well i did it

[devout sun]

yeah..

[hybrid matrix]

u can maul anything slower than you

[devout sun]

I think that should be a thing that's changed

much lower stam

much higher bite force

[hybrid matrix]

the stam is fine

[devout sun]

your really not that fast

stegos are just REALLY slow

[hybrid matrix]

exactly

there's no problem in running down a sub stego

[devout sun]

I would rather switch that tradeoff

less rundown

more deathly bite

that's what a crocodile is meant to do after all

I want to bait that carno

and bite it's head clean off with a fluid movement

not worry about burning all my stam to catch something

I don't want to be a legacy rex, I want to be a Deinosuchus

[hybrid matrix]

@barren zephyr #general-feedback message

[barren zephyr]

Well obviously it shouldn’t be able to lunge a stego, it’s it’s bite that is too weak when it needs to use it, it can’t even kill a utahraptor. If the bite isn’t strong enough for a apex to defend itself when needed then there is no point in having the bite, but it needs that bite when it’s physically fighting something

@sage yoke

Utah is a 500kg animal, jumping from a high height with it is you're fault

Use common sense (no offense) and don't fall down from high places

Deinos bite is just too weak for something that’s supposed to be a “apex”. It shouldn’t need to use its bite cause it’s whole thing is drowning, but when it fights it can’t deal relatable damage

[barren zephyr]

It isnt a apex

also its balanced around the current game

and a stego nerf is insane

deino is literally the one good match up stego has, nerfing it because its doing well against what its supposed to (solitary big slow carnivores) is horrible logic

It's like nerfing carnos speed because its unfair to utah players, it makes 0 sense.

Some times, you're carnivore just isnt suited to hunting prey like that, and its insane how people don't understand this since its one of the most basic things about nature

[sick crescent]

Deino is an apex, however its balanced around water as it should be

Deino is not supposed to be full strength on land

[barren zephyr]

If we consider apex as a group of animals that have a even fight with each other deino is anything but a apex

Even in the water it runs from spino

[sick crescent]

Also I'm pretty sure the chance of a Stego buff are higher than a Stego nerf, but this is just assumptions

Stego is a meme to everything that isn't a Deino

[hybrid matrix]

punch confirmed it
later in the game stego is getting a buff

[sick crescent]

I'm on the support of Stego getting CC

[hybrid matrix]

same

[sick crescent]

Small tiers shouldn't be walking off a Stego impale even if they're hit on the tail

[hybrid matrix]

i kno wut CC is, but does it stand for concussion?

[sick crescent]

crowd control

[hybrid matrix]

oh

[barren zephyr]

not really, I can understand utah and below though

[sick crescent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/626862728845328395/670107147933188106/2020-01-24_00-25-31.mp4

I imagine Stego having this sort of knockback stun for things below 2200Kg

buffing Stegos health also seems like a popular discussion

Tenonto 6 shots Stego

[devout sun]

Stego should have a good matchup against Deino, but right now it has every advantage all the time. Stego can do more than just defend itself, it can literally stop Deinos from existing a large area, chase, attack and kill them, even in their own domain. Stego should have a good matchup with Deino, but the place it's at now is so disgustingly unfun for Deino players.

[barren zephyr]

That's why I'm in favor with a small buff to deinos bite

maybe around 700-650

[sick crescent]

like thatll do anything against 1297 damage

let alone a good stego will use the fast jab so it has super high dps

[devout sun]

That would suffice for now quite well actually.

[barren zephyr]

Oh this is neat, why isnt stuff like this in game?

[sick crescent]

isnt anything big enough for it yet

[devout sun]

Yeah, that's really cool

also F in chat for utah pounce locking on to where you landed

[sick crescent]

stego getting knockback is kind of a must with the headcheesing

[devout sun]

Idk if that's ever coming back

[barren zephyr]

Not really, I can see that happening to a utah pouncing a carnos head or a stegos tail

[devout sun]

I mean utah can pounce a carno in the face

tank a hit

and land on it and continue

it takes full damage but the pounce isn't cancelled, which is weird

[barren zephyr]

Not really, the carno coul just thrash until the utah goes flying off

[sick crescent]

what that would do is let stego reposition itself, and if the utah was headcheesing then the utah can just run and trample it/impale

[devout sun]

I mean that's what happens in game right now

[sick crescent]

carno and tenonto would be under that too, though

[devout sun]

it doesn't cancel pounces to get hit on the way over

as long as you don't die you keep going

also can utah pounce Deino?

haven't seen one do it yet

[sick crescent]

yes

[devout sun]

or try actually

I guess it would be pretty stupid though

[sick crescent]

it should, at least

[devout sun]

would be really hard to get away after dropping of of something that can turn and bite so fast

[sick crescent]

filipe reacted with a 👍 to someone asking if utah can pounce deino

[devout sun]

thankfully it doesn't matter cause the thing that devoted evolution to biteforce can't even one shot it anyway

[sick crescent]

deino is super bugged kind of

[devout sun]

it's hit and hurtboxes are a mess

[sick crescent]

It has basically no collision and its bites are hella buggy

[devout sun]

alt bite is ape crap

[barren zephyr]

agreed

[devout sun]

it's great but biting something doesnt hit it

but if you finally land that perfect counter on a carno

well

sucks to suck, do it 4 more times

and it might die

[barren zephyr]

deino needs a tail whip, its more iconicanyways

[sick crescent]

not really

[barren zephyr]

250 N tail whip attack and 700 N bite force

[sick crescent]

it just needs to not be buggy

oh and trample

[devout sun]

That sounds really really awesome

[keen vapor]

Sounds kinda op..

[barren zephyr]

Not really

[sick crescent]

Deino needs better collision and a non-bugged bite, then it's fine

[devout sun]

The tail whip can't be used at all while on the move, and the bite can be balanced by lowered stam or movement speed

it's just better for cocky carnos that know how weak Deino actually is

[keen vapor]

A tail whip for deino will make it a lot harder to hunt for mid tiers

[barren zephyr]

3 shots utahs and 8 shots carnos

[devout sun]

It shouldn't be hunted by midtiers

[sick crescent]

on land it should

[keen vapor]

yeah on land

[barren zephyr]

I can see a allo pack killing a land deino

[devout sun]

Yeah

[barren zephyr]

I mean allo is the lion of the isle

[devout sun]

carno might be a little small though

that's a low tier eater anyway

[keen vapor]

Dinos beeing invincible to others is realistic i get that but horrible in terms of game balance

[devout sun]

that's what it's specialized to do

[barren zephyr]

yeah I agree, when deinos gets buffed it shouldnt have to worry about carnos

[devout sun]

nothing in-game right now should be hunting Deinos

[barren zephyr]

talking about a way in the future buff, not now

[sick crescent]

Deino shouldn't be careless on land

[devout sun]

cerato, maybe, allo, sure

carno is meant to hunt things like utah, so not carno

[barren zephyr]

yeah but they arent in the game

[keen vapor]

Thats just gona make it busted OP

[barren zephyr]

so carnos the only one that fits the bill

[sick crescent]

The things practically untouchable in water, it should be the opposite on land

the only threat to deino in water is other deinos

[devout sun]

Stego's don't care

[keen vapor]

yeah it is super unmanuaverable and easy to pick from behind

[devout sun]

Stego dominates Deino so bad it's stupid

[sick crescent]

how is it stupid

[devout sun]

Stego should defend itself from Deino just fine

but running after them

demolishing them because it wants too

[keen vapor]

Deino is really balanced imo, you just gotta lunge

[sick crescent]

swimming after them is so dumb

[devout sun]

swimming into a little island in the middle of the water

[sick crescent]

i cant believe people get swam down by stegos

[devout sun]

surrounded by Deinos

and just vibin

[barren zephyr]

The main thing that causes that is the fact is rivers are so damn shallow, I was literally water walking for a good 20 minutes at one point

[sick crescent]

at the same time people get chased down by stegos as utah and carno so

[barren zephyr]

imagine if a stego saw me

[devout sun]

Stego HUNTS Deinos right now

[barren zephyr]

I would have no counter play

[devout sun]

that's bullcrap

[keen vapor]

There is 1 shamlow river

[devout sun]

Stegos kill all Deinos on sight because they can

[keen vapor]

will prob get changed

[sick crescent]

thats how it works, viper

[barren zephyr]

yep, being in shallow water (Which you HAVE TO go through to reach swamp if you spawned in center) is a death wish

[keen vapor]

deinos can easily flee to water

[sick crescent]

players kill anything they can, guess what, just because they can

this is likely gonna stay too sooooo

[devout sun]

Don't worry though, stego can hit the Deino 5 more times once it hits the water

[sick crescent]

how

by fishing?

[devout sun]

basically

[odd sedge]

True.
That isnt a stego deino problem. I have Seen Hypsis who hunt baby utahs, carnos and pteras

[sick crescent]

just avoid the stego lol

[barren zephyr]

But what if you spawned in central and want to go to swamp?

You HAVE to go through the shallow river

[sick crescent]

youre in water, its still technically on land

[devout sun]

My what an idea, why didn't I think of that

[barren zephyr]

and if something like a stego is in the shallow river, deino has no counterplay

[devout sun]

Deino is screwed if a stego sees it, it's only option is to run for it's life across the river

what it SHOULD be

[sick crescent]

why are you in a shallow river to begin with as deino

[devout sun]

is stego can defend itself from a Deino

wouldn't die to one

[barren zephyr]

how?

[barren zephyr]

To go to swamp

You know the place where deino is somewhat meant to be?

[devout sun]

because it's the only way you can get to the other half of the map as a Deino

[sick crescent]

the bayou or the spire swamp

[barren zephyr]

There's only 1 swamp now

[devout sun]

^^

[sick crescent]

theres two

[barren zephyr]

but yeah the only way to it from center is a massive shallow river

besides just being unfun to go through, its just unfair

[sick crescent]

two

[pale bloom]

Right now Utah and Carno are more capable of killing Stegos than Deino tbh, at least for what I've seen

[sick crescent]

yes

[devout sun]

That's fine

[sick crescent]

same with tenonto, hypsi and dryo

[barren zephyr]

You sure? I've seen the map on the main screen, theres 1 swamp

I could (try) and login and show you

[sick crescent]

theres t w o

[cyan flame]

@barren zephyr There's two, they're just connected

[sick crescent]

theyre not, erik

[barren zephyr]

Oh, well isnt that just one swamp?

[cyan flame]

Sucho/bary swamp, but they have rivers now

[sick crescent]

spire swamp connects to the maze but not the bayou

[barren zephyr]

I think I know what you're talking about, you mean the river next to SE swamp?

[devout sun]

The picture that was sent looks close enough to eachother to be connected

The shallow river is THE way to the swamp

if a stego so much as gets bored

it sits in that river

and cucks any Deino that dare try to go through

and there's nothing a Deino can do about it

[barren zephyr]

Theres another river next to south east swamp that leads to the ocean, snow might have confused that with a real swamp

[sick crescent]

i rarely see stegos there from my experience on pteranodon

[barren zephyr]

^

[barren zephyr]

yeah but IF it goes there, deino just gets fucked

[devout sun]

Doesn't matter, but the fact that it COULD happen, and that it's possible, and that it HAS happened

[sick crescent]

even then theres only a landbridge once

[devout sun]

That just isn't good game balancing

it isn't fun

the same way, everyone says raising Deino bite force isn't fun becuase it's not fun to get one shot

[pale bloom]

Mmm after what 1 week of feedback suggestions about Deino being weak and couple videos I've seen I'll might have to agree to Deino needs a small buff in damage not for hunting or non intended gameplay but just for make it so self defense is threatening, otherwise the playable will get bullied by the roster when people gets used to Deino presence and avoids ambush areas of the map

[sick crescent]

funny you say this, if stego is in the open, and a utah/carno/tenonto headcheese, a stego has no counterplay

[barren zephyr]

Yep, "go through a massive part of land that you are forced to go across slowly and if a player playing X class comes through you have no counterplay, get fucked"

[barren zephyr]

headchess?

[sick crescent]

same aswell goes for if deinos lunges on stuff

part of the many reasons why deino shouldnt dare thinking about touching playables above 4 tons

[barren zephyr]

A 700N-650N biteforce would be a neat buff

[barren zephyr]

also what does this have to do with deino?

What's headcheese?

[pale bloom]

It does, good Stego players know how to place their attacks, most scenarios Stego will win except of proper pack hunt, maybe only Utah are able to 1v1 an average Stego

[sick crescent]

@cyan flame ayo

[pale bloom]

But you need to place well your pounce and be patient, 1 mistake and you're dead

[sick crescent]

Stego gets killed by 1 utah with pounce nowadays

[devout sun]

If stego positions itself right, utah has nowhere to ambush and run from to get stam back, makes it really really difficult

[barren zephyr]

I feel like carno shouldnt be as good as hunting stegos/deinos as it is now to be honest

[sick crescent]

other than that, stego is handicapped to trees or rocks

[devout sun]

Carno is a low tier hunter

[sick crescent]

as in, not thats its the meta, but it needs to

[pale bloom]

Utah is better hunting Stegos

[devout sun]

hunting Deinos and Stegos is something it shouldn't be doing without a group of at least 5

[barren zephyr]

yep, it needs to function more like that, but it should just be harder not impossible

[sick crescent]

its called headcheese because the stego cant do anything about it

[barren zephyr]

use your tail

[sick crescent]

[devout sun]

Deino VS Stego if the Deino isn't within 10 meters of the water

[barren zephyr]

And besides, isnt stegos whole thing having a undefended head?

[sick crescent]

why is it out of water that far in the first place

[cyan flame]

@barren zephyr 660, you'll almost oneshot a utah on head with that. Combined with making attacks take double stamina in deep water. And give deino neutral multiplier on head and tail tip multiplier on the entire tail. Now you got a slightly more damaging, but decently more tanky threat, even on land. And maybe buff both deino and stego health. That's my suggestion for making deino feel a bit more powerful and not so "Oh crap, other dinos scary".

[barren zephyr]

It has to work with that downside

[sick crescent]

deinos either be on the shore/bank of the water or in the water

[barren zephyr]

fair, I feel like utah could use a HP nerf to.

[devout sun]

^ probably

[barren zephyr]

700 N bite force with a 700 HP utah would be nice, but 660 is fine

[sick crescent]

if a stego is blocking the entrance to bayou because of the land bridge, i feel like one could simply turn around, and if youre being chased...

[pale bloom]

Uh depends, if that nerf makes Carnos 2 shot Utahs, I wouldn't nerf the hp

[barren zephyr]

That sounds kinda piss game design wise

"you cant go to this area because another player said so, get fucked"

[sick crescent]

simple fix is remove the land bridge

[barren zephyr]

what do you mean?

The one near the river intersection?

[devout sun]

Stego can do this anywhere to Deino

[sick crescent]

the river intersection

ok for one

that sounds like an ambush hotspot for deinos to ambush other deinos

[devout sun]

if only stegos weren't protecting every other food source

[cyan flame]

I don't know, I'm working with the idea that deino will not oneshot utah, even on a headshot. Almost kill it, sure, and I think with my suggestion the utah is left with what, 10 hp, so, that should make it fuck off and if it doesn't react real fast, I'm pretty sure even a tailbite will kill it at that point so.

[sick crescent]

for two, not that i remember a land bridge being there

[barren zephyr]

At least in somewhat deep water the "just swim away" argument works but when there's a massive section of shallow river that central deinos HAVE to go through to reach swamp its a pretty poor argument

[devout sun]

Yeah

There is no excuse for the dominance Stego has over Deino everywhere

[barren zephyr]

It's kinda weird not having deino one shot utah

[devout sun]

it's insanely unfun and not right

Deino is the most 'biteforciest' thing and it can't one shot a utah

bull if you ask me

[barren zephyr]

I feel like the solution is too make the shallow river deeper instead

[devout sun]

It literally fits in Deino's mouth

[sick crescent]

well yes, if thats the case

theres already land bridges going above the water to cross rivers

[barren zephyr]

Like I can get behind "its balanced around the current cast" but utah is literally bite sized to deino

[devout sun]

when you kill one you can swallow it whole if I remember correctly

[cyan flame]

I've seen worse. But it's what the devs and QA have stated, so that's what I will work with, no matter if I personally agree or not. I think that's fair enough :p

[cyan flame]

And stego thagomizer punch straight through carno head, or body. Yeah, I know how it feels when shit that should just fall over if you hit them goes on their way as if all is well in the world :p

[sick crescent]

ikr

[devout sun]

Sure should, this is a horror game, a punishing game

you better learn the hard way

it has to be fair though

[barren zephyr]

I feel like stego should one shot carno to be fair

[cyan flame]

It should, but it doesn't cause balance. But just so we're clear that I do understand the deinos view of what should and should not kill, just saying it goes for other things too, so you're not alone in that situation.

[devout sun]

I already did, but it sucks Deino's have to "learn the hard way" that stego's will do their best to destroy you, can hit you from a mile away, will chase you into water, stop you from going around the map, and need to be killed on sight before they get big

that's not cool

and that there isn't much you can do about it

[cyan flame]

Eh, that's just stupid, and should be fixed with better map design and so on. Stegos should not be hunting stuff.. :p

[devout sun]

yes ^

stegos

HUNT

deinos

no no no

there's no excuse for that

[barren zephyr]

Stego is a endurance hunter to deino atm

[devout sun]

it out runs it, out damages it, and outranges it