general-feedback-discussion

[fathom idol]

The floating bug appeared for me after they did that small patch.

As for the rocks in general feedback - I think they look OK, but they are re used a bit too mutch. There is very little variation in shapes I think. Also some of em are a pain to jump on top of.

[barren zephyr]

True, however we don't want to wait long for the next update

Personally, update 4 should include Perks, Diets and UI overhaul. Everything we need in one update.

But, we're yet to find out

[fathom idol]

Agree, just happy to rant it off my chest 😛

[barren zephyr]

Hey does anyone have any thoughts on my post in 'general feedback'? i think this could do with some fleshing out of course, but it could add a huge depth to the game in the future 😛

[paper oriole]

Is that jungle suggestion implying that kentros are going to climb trees and have to watch out for... pteras? Or that utahs could pull kentros out of trees that they were in for some reason?

Where would utah grab a kentro? Why is kentro in a tree? Why would ptera be a threat to kentro?

[cyan flame]

What?

[strange wave]

@barren zephyr are you aware of what kentrosaurus is

[cyan flame]

Tree climbing kentros?!

[strange wave]

this is kentrosaurus

this is herrerasaurus, the confirmed tree climbing animal

[outer condor]

Arboreal kentro 👍

[idle needle]

Reminds me of the post someone made asking "shouldn't herrera have more fingers on its hands, since it's a tree climber" even though theropods pretty much never have more than three under any circumstances

Also

Water is a thing

It's really hard to drink most times

It's no longer enough to put your head over the water, now the water has to be DEEP ENOUGH which means that sometimes you swim before you can drink

which is stupid

[rotund silo]

Which is our deino

[icy lion]

our deino is 11.5m, if thats what youre asking

[rotund silo]

There's two which do you think is ours

[icy lion]

probably riograndensis

i know the species was listed in the animation preview vid but that was a while ago

and in the isle species doesnt really matter

ptera's "dimorphism" uses the crests from different species

sorry not ptera, para

[rotund silo]

And people say sarco was bigger

[icy lion]

longer, but much lighter

well formerly longer i think

new deino specimens are at 13.5m

[rotund silo]

So how do you think the skin patch will affect the male and female colouration

[icy lion]

deino already has a female coloration

the red on the eyes and neck is the male color

[rotund silo]

Yea but they'll be skins so how will we tell them apart

[icy lion]

i dont think every single species will have dimorphism

imo deinosuchus shouldnt have any model differences

[rotund silo]

So what you're saying is when the skin update comes male and female will have the same colours and patterns

[icy lion]

no?

the females wont have the detail section

[rotund silo]

O ok only males will be colorful that's kinda what I wanted to hear

[tired wagon]

Ok, I'll compromise.... The Avatar dinosaurs can be a separate game mode aside from survival and sandbox...

[rotund silo]

[paper oriole]

That latest suggestion is a prime example of why you should use commas

Havin a goddamn stroke reading that shit

[tired wagon]

Lmao

[paper oriole]

Also anky is the earth bender not rex, duh

[floral saffron]

lmao im not gonna lie tho smoko, its a pretty funny idea. tbh that might be a fun mod for deathmatch servers way down the line, not even a joke

[tired wagon]

Multiple dinos have the same element

I mean

Yeah

Id have fun with it lol

[paper oriole]

Para will firebend as he did in this accurate paleoart

[barren zephyr]

Yea, sorry about that I realize my mistake now...

[tired wagon]

What the fuck

[floral saffron]

who wouldn't? I would love to fire bomb a rex are u kidding

[tired wagon]

I love it

[floral saffron]

HAHA

[tired wagon]

Spino is deffinately water

Or

Or

Its air

And it uses its sail like Aang uses his glider to fly

[paper oriole]

No ptera and magy can be air

[floral saffron]

naaaah spino has to be water, its gotta be

[paper oriole]

Magy blows air out of his neck sack

[tired wagon]

This

[floral saffron]

yes factual

PFFFT

[tired wagon]

Just imagine a spino standing completely still

But it's flying

[floral saffron]

I dont have to imagine, sounds like legacy to me

[tired wagon]

It's going so fast that it broke the sound barrier

Lmao

[floral saffron]

excellent

[tired wagon]

Raptors are mixed

[floral saffron]

i feel like raptors would be fire

[tired wagon]

Utah would be fire

[floral saffron]

oh maybe wind tho cause s p e e d

[tired wagon]

But Austro is water

[floral saffron]

of course

[tired wagon]

Because its gonna be a fisher

[paper oriole]

https://youtu.be/Zzni9cLleIQ

[tired wagon]

Yeah theres also a sequel to that

[floral saffron]

bepi gets its own power which is just that it can do everything a duck can, including fly

[tired wagon]

https://youtu.be/GgPgyX7-XRE

[floral saffron]

ok hate to get back on topic, but reading cerato's mssg in general feedback, i feel like they have a misunderstanding of what type of abuse the devs are worried about

like i doubt if you carry a bunch of babies you will have the option to eat them, thats not a common sense mechanic to add. it would more likely be abused to refuse other animals potential prey and boost deino populations, which could be game breaking

[tired wagon]

I think any adult should be able to carry any juvi (depending on size ofc)

[paper oriole]

nah, juvies should be made more self reliant so they don't need carrying

perhaps carrying a juvie can be special to one or a few dinosaurs, but most shouldn't need it

[tired wagon]

I would like to run across of herd of Tennontos as Carno and pick up a juvi, run off and kill it

[paper oriole]

thats a thing you can do already tho

[floral saffron]

i think carrying one hatchling is fine, but it should come at a stamina cost and it shouldnt offer the juvi any protection. like if you bite the parent's face it should damage both the parent and the baby, and the parent will need to put the baby down to fight back

[tired wagon]

Wait really? So those other deinos who said that it wasn't a thing were just lying to me? I WAS STUCK IN A FUCKING CRACK AMD THETYY LET ME DIE!! Son of a bitch.

[floral saffron]

nah u have to die to be carried rn

[paper oriole]

oh no you can pick up juvies and carry them off but they uh kinda die in the process

[tired wagon]

Oh

[floral saffron]

its just where if you kill an animal small enough its corpse will automatically transfer to ur mouth

[silver zephyr]

no, the lunge grabs live stuff

[paper oriole]

if you could snatch up live juvies it would definitely just be used to grief and be a dick, opposite of fun for the person being targeted since how is a baby supposed to fight against a huge predator carrying it?

same with stuff like eating players alive, just get it over with once their death is certain no need for the abusable grief bait mechanics

[tired wagon]

I meant like pick it up and kidnap it. Maybe kill and eat it, or depending on my mood I could make it dance for freedom. Ofcourse I could sell it to other carnivores and turn a profit. The currency would be severed Hypsi heads. I hate those bastards.

[floral saffron]

i dont think an adult deino could lunge at a smaller one thats stuck under the water and move it, only deal damage. the purpose of the lunge which CAN move animals is to drag them under water and drown them, not nicely remove another deino from a hole underwater

[paper oriole]

as comical as that is it'd be annoying af to be in the place of the juvie against a large carni just doing it to ruin your day for their own amusement

[silver zephyr]

oh, I thought you meant grabbing in general, not using it to move people

[tired wagon]

Id call it kind words

Give it praise

[floral saffron]

nah, the problem was they were stuck in a map glitch 😭

[tired wagon]

Yeah

[floral saffron]

btw just scrolled up a bit in general and there was a suggestion that the ptera should be able to gain stam while gliding, which makes sense, a lot of animals irl can do that and considering ptera is a paperweight it probably could have that without making the game unbalanced. but... almost all of the reactions were negative??? opinions?

[tired wagon]

Ok I've revised this: certain predators (the small and/or fast ones (carno, utah, ovi, herra, etc...)) can pick up juvis. All herbis can pick up juvis of their own species. In order for another herbi to hold a juvi of a separate species, there would have to be a trust mechanic where the parent either gives permission, or the other herbi has to be around the parent and baby for a certain amount of time. If the second option is implimented then the trust time would have to be at least double/tripple the time it takes for carnivores to trust. But as certain predator you can bypass this. Oh and even with the trust system you still need the parent's permission. Oh also, it would take even longer for herbis and carnis to trust each other. Oh yeah, certain species such as dryo and ptera would be way easier to trust than any other species, since they're less likely to harm juvis.

Also, I think that stamina regen would have to either be capped at a certain point (maybe half), or it would have to be really slow. Like legacy carno while it was sitting.

[paper oriole]

How would a trike or any ceratopsian really carry a juvie?

[silver zephyr]

use its horns

[paper oriole]

Galli i can see doing it, but not trike

lol impale all your kids

Use them as meat shields

Also i dont think there should be cross faction baby carrying we dont need that carebear shit lol

[tired wagon]

But what if I'm playing ptera and my friends are a herd of herbis? I wanna be able to take the babies to the sky, show them the world and it's beauty, then "accidentally" drop them. But just enough to get away with a broken bone so I get to carry them around more.

[paper oriole]

Pfffft no

Jokes aside i dont think ptera is even equipped to carry other dinos

[tired wagon]

It should at least be something that server owners can enable/disable.

Maybe juvi ornithormimids and raptors

But anything bigger, no

But that's what Quetz is for!

[barren zephyr]

Ptera is 90kg, don't forget

It wont be holding much

[tired wagon]

90kg of raw muscle

Have you seen those bulging biceps?

[barren zephyr]

Hm

[floral saffron]

i mean... fliers being baby snatchers IS planned, just not for ptera. As i see it ptera is just a seagull that either flies around looking for fish to snatch off the surface or sits and begs for bigger predator's french fries. quetz, tho, now thats a baby snatcher!

[tired wagon]

He has big muscles

I named him Franklin

[floral saffron]

thats so horrifying its wonderful. i love it

i adore franklin, thank you for including us in his unanticipated yet most appreciated debut

[tired wagon]

You are very welcome

[mint vessel]

tfw your feedback is deleted

[tired wagon]

@torpid nest No I hate stress in these games! In fucking BoB, you can die of discomfort because someone was next to you. That's got to be one pf the dumbest game mechanics ever! If stress is added then it shouldnt ever be a direct cause of death, but maybe an assist. You're a dryo and you see a pack of allos, you could trip over a rock because you weren't payimg attention because you were stressed, now you could die. But the thing is: THE PLAYER ALREADY FEELS STRESSED, SO THERES NO NEED FOR THE DINO TO BE AFFECTED BY IT!!!

[tired wagon]

Why got deleted?

[mint vessel]

I was told to put it in bug reports but like, I didn't think it was a bug

[icy lion]

its better safe than sorry

[mint vessel]

Was just saying the deino 1 call cuts off weird..

figured it was a too short audio clip not a bug

[icy lion]

we also have a sort of system where if something gets reported as a bug even though its intended, it gets looked at

since that means people dont like it or think its broken the way it is

[mint vessel]

seems like too much effort for such a small thing

[icy lion]

its very possible that its an issue with the audio, theres been many in the past

i think there currently is some in the stress test, actually

[tired wagon]

Like in the good old days when dinos would get released without audio. Ah the memories.

[swift dew]

@spiral ravine personally, I think group limits should be a thing for now, but later on if you can feed a rex pack of 20 rexes, then well done, you get a 20 player rex pack. its not like group limits are going to stop players from megapacking together anyway

[willow ore]

been trying to get into a server forever it keeps kicking me out for some reason

[tired wagon]

It's full

[paper oriole]

Isnt such a tug of war mechanic for deino already planned?

[tired wagon]

No idea, but itd make sense

Hitting certain spots should give the deino more of a chance to pull in the dino

Namely the head

And the neck

[cyan flame]

@cinder urchin Then you'd have to buff stego weight with at least another 100 in weight or so, probably more unless it would stop gaining weight before it's fully grown. Or limit deino weight growth speed so it doesn't reach over 7k in weight until the very end, to keep it with stego.

[barren zephyr]

@cinder urchin your idea is awful balance wise

Deino shouldnt be able to grab stego when it could simply choose not to engage with it

deino shouldnt be able to body stego AND be able to avoid fighting it if it doesnt want to

[urban flax]

I'm getting tired of people comparing deino capabilities to actual crocs. Do they realize an animal's weight is extremely important ? Deino is four time the weight of our actual crocs (if not more). Could a 2 meter-long rabbit jump 20 meters ? No. As such, a deino probably couldn't carry more than its own weight, nor could it lunge 4 meters into the air.

[barren zephyr]

agreed

[ancient oyster]

Dino's not safe after safe logout?i lost 2 full grow croc's

[chilly stirrup]

dunno where to put it but this gives me a feeling of vietnam tho .... cant help it xD

[tepid river]

It's most likely a bug, as it doesn't happen to everyone and not every time. Some of the servers on crashing have also wiped people's dinosaurs, these things tend to happen on test servers

[cyan flame]

@tepid river There is already a nesting button on the screen I think, and I'm pretty sure there's been talk about some way of being nested "directly" without going through chat.

[tepid river]

Is there? I don't see one at all

[cyan flame]

Huh, maybe I've imagined it, honestly not sure right now, but then I've not slept for.. well, too long, so I'm not entirely here.. :p But I think there should be, when you choose your playable or so? Anyway, I'm pretty sure on there at least having been mentions of a new system so you don't need the whole chat but can be nested directly from ingame.

[tepid river]

Being able to choose to be nested in when you pick a dinosaur is good and all, but what about when you already have a dinosaur? It would suck to have to kill your current dino to go check the egg tab on the selection screen, and find there may not actually be any available at the moment.

[cyan flame]

True, I would imagine you might be able to check before logging in perhaps.

[tepid river]

I could see that but it's probably a nightmare to code tbh. Having a system you can check at any time while playing would be optimal

[cyan flame]

Yeah

[urban flax]

Add a randomness factor in a game that is 100% skill-based ? Why do people even want that ?

[cyan flame]

No idea, I'm not a fan of the idea, the less RNG the better I think.

[barren zephyr]

Although the game is pretty skill based, I’m not sure I would say it’s 100% skill based. But making the game as skill based as possible does turn down an idea as critical hits, and makes it a direct con to the game. As a typical The Isle player, I would say that my skill is decent. But even with the knowledge that I have, there are situations that I find myself in, that I can’t see how I could have avoided, and would be unpredictable, and seem pretty “random”. The Isle may be about skill on the higher part, but “being at the right place at the right time” is also a big factor. At least some some scenarios.

[urban flax]

But adding critical hits straight out reduce that skill factor and can lead to really stupid and frustrating situations. Plus that's not really fit for that kind of game...

[barren zephyr]

True. I see both pros and cons. Not a feature I would wish for, but a thought

Perk mechanic should not link with combat stats

It unbalances the game and will give the devs (plus QA) a large amount of unnecessary implementations

You got a point. Maybe it wouldn’t be that befitting to have the perk system interfere with combat stats in general.

Yes

[cinder urchin]

@barren zephyr @urban flax Understandably it can cause some balancing issues. But stego weighs only 6tons, rex weighed at about 9, rex was also one of the many prey items deino would come across. in order to combat a rex, deino would not have faced off against rex but instead would grab it and drown it, now tell me how a croc weighing at 8 tons cant drag a rex to its death? Yall wanna say that deino shouldnt be able to body stego, but stego is the perfect prey item for deino, with a small head/neck, major weak point especially when drinking, and if caught on the leg, and is being pulled and thrashed around, stego would be unable to swing its tail effectively. You say stop comaparing it to modern crocs, but modern crocs take on animals twice their size, like wildebeast, elephants, lions, hippos, some of which vastly out weigh a croc

[urban flax]

Did you not read what I wrote or did you just not understand ?
The fact deino is WAY heavier than a modern croc means that it CAN'T take on things heavier than itself. This is the law of physics.

[barren zephyr]

Things are able to hold things heavier than their weight

However, it's not easy when it's just neck and teeth

[urban flax]

Not when they weigh 8 tons themselves

[barren zephyr]

Agree to disagree

[cyan flame]

@cinder urchin If stego grew in 3 hours and not 5, I could agree to the stego being a good prey, but not when they grow the same amount of time.

[barren zephyr]

There will be plenty of prey for deino in the near future

[inner hound]

@odd sedge thank you, youve added things i didnt think about, that i now realize are rather important aswell !

[barren zephyr]

@odd sedge
Those are coming in update 4, don't worry

[barren zephyr]

Hi, as I've just woken up I've realized I'm a dumbass, yeah I meant herrasauras everytime u said kentro ffs

[odd sedge]

@dapper forge wrong chat there buddy, general feedback isn't for questions ^^''
Can't give you an answer tho

[barren zephyr]

@past saffron I think that is an awesome idea! Would be a neat little feature to get an idea of how many fights a dinosaur has been in, based on scars. Would also add a lot more personalization to your character. I like the idea!

[cyan flame]

@zinc moss I believe you can continously sniff as carni to follow a track if you're trotting, if you're having issues with losing the track.

[strange wave]

damn, i feel that on a spiritual level, its fine

[flat crypt]

I think ptera is a bit too easy to grow, but the solution to that isn't extending growth time IMO

The issue is mostly that you can get to over 50% without eating once, and only needing to drink like one or two times

[silver zephyr]

yeah, the food and water drain is the problem

[flat crypt]

Raising food and water drain would force them to be more active and put themselves in slightly more dangerous situations more frequently

because rn you can sit on a cliff for nearly your entire growth

[urban flax]

At least increase them during growth

I don't know if juvies have different hunger and thirst drain than adults, but they really should

[flat crypt]

Ye. Adult water drain is fine imo, food drain maybe a bit slow but not too bad. But you barely have to eat or drink in the time it takes to grow, which really needs to change

[urban flax]

That could balance a lot of things that would be too easy/too hard otherwise

[tawny juniper]

@barren zephyr Could I question why kentro would be climbing?

[silver zephyr]

climbing kentro?

[urban flax]

For example, if baby ptera gets terrible hunger drain, adult could stay as it is as a reward for managing to survive up there, even if it doesn't takes long

[urban flax]

I think he said he mistaken kentro and herrera

[tawny juniper]

ah

[flat crypt]

Catching fish isn't too hard, even as a baby. But it is risky which is what there needs to be more of to make growing it a little more challenging. If you have to catch fish several times to feed yourself before you even hit 50%, you'll need to manage stam more carefully and be more vigilant about where you feed

[urban flax]

yes

And this way adult pteras would use their excess fish more to feed juvies rather than hoarding them on rocks

[flat crypt]

yup. stocking up actually makes sense

[unreal moat]

Something is wrong in the head of people that want ptera to have long growth time

[cyan flame]

@north nimbus I think there's something in the rules that would concern your suggestion.. :p

[north nimbus]

where 🤔

[cyan flame]

Maybe it was a pin somewhere, but I think there's something about trolling and not very serious feedback and so on, and I'm sure you'll forgive me for not taking that particular feedback seriously? :p

[north nimbus]

yes yes sorry i didnt hear about that anywhere

they deleted it anyways 😭

[cyan flame]

@north nimbus No worries. And I guess I was right then, if you didn't delete it yourself :p

[hybrid matrix]

@barren zephyr not gonna say anything about hunger/thirst drain?

[barren zephyr]

Ahhhh I forgot

Thirst should just be normal and hunger should drain slow

[hybrid matrix]

i agree

but it should be like glacially slow

its a snake
snakes only need to eat like once a month

[barren zephyr]

True but this is a video game

[hybrid matrix]

i know but its hunger drain should still reflect real life snakes

[barren zephyr]

Like maybe it lasts 2 hours or something?

Idk

Irl snake life is boring hah hah, they just feed once a month and sit in a hide forever

[hybrid matrix]

hmmm
thats not a bad idea
especially if it takes 3-4 hours to grow

OH

you also never said anything about growth time

[barren zephyr]

I forgot everything I suck

[hybrid matrix]

@bold palm ptera's gonna snap its beak like that lmfao

[bold palm]

what if they used their feet? swoop in and rip off a piece?

[hybrid matrix]

broken toes

[urban flax]

They have no feet

[barren zephyr]

I know Titanoboa is confirmed, I just wanted to write how I wanted it to be integrated into the game

[safe galleon]

derptah you know pteras neck would snap from skimming right?

ptera is meant to be a scavanger and fisher so doing a swoop to get meat is agreat idea imo

[hybrid matrix]

seriously? at that speed?

[barren zephyr]

...???

[safe galleon]

pteras neck and jaw is way too weak to skim iirc

[hybrid matrix]

its moving too slow to snap its neck while skimming

[hybrid matrix]

makes sense but the speed that our ptera skims is like 1 m/s

[bold palm]

maybe, they could swoop down and grab dead fish on the ground or pieces of meat like they do to fish.

[safe galleon]

I mean who says it also wouldn't slow down to grab a meat piece?

[hybrid matrix]

doesnt matter since the body is solid

the water is not

[tiny geyser]

Irl ptera couldn’t skim feed, wrong beak/jaw shape. So if this ptera can handle those forces it could handle snagging a small piece of meat.

[hybrid matrix]

i couldnt think of a better way to put that

but it requires more force to snag a piece of meat off of a corpse than it does to snag a fish from water

[urban flax]

I think ptera could very well grab pieces of meat or small bodies from the ground, but not tear chunks of meat from a bigger body

[hybrid matrix]

if the meat is already lose then sure
but otherwise i dont see it happening

[urban flax]

Actually, by looking at the concept art, I thought it would be very cool to have, since we see two pteras fighting. One could attack the first and force it to drop its food, then catch it mid-air before it fallw on the ground below

[tiny geyser]

Actually beak shape for skimmers helps with going through the water, wrong shape and you are unable to skim effectively and dealing with that is a pain. Drag always running the fun

*ruining

[hybrid matrix]

u mean ruining?

thought so

[barren zephyr]

Yea I was excited for dogfighting but nope they just crash and fall to the ground hah hah

[urban flax]

Yeah pteras are really bad fighters in-game... How much damage do they do btw ?

Because I've tried to kill a juvie AI dryo once, landed around 5 hits on it, but I couldn't manage to kill it...

[barren zephyr]

Less than a Dryo pretty sure

[hybrid matrix]

i understand that, but here me out
even with the wrong beak shape, the water resistance wouldn't be much of a problem, just an inconvenience, however, the resistance caused by ripping a piece of meat from something would be dangerous

also
this beak-shape argument is kinda stupid bc either way, the beak is the wrong shape for grabbing meat off of a corpse

and lemme give u an analogy

if I cant get a piece of steak off using a fork and steak-knife while sitting at a table, then a pteranodon sure as hell cant do it while FLYING

for reference im equal in strength to our pteranodon

im weak as hell

[dry osprey]

I mean, if you cant do it with the right tools, who says Ptra cant do it with the wrong tools?

I know its not realistic, but thinking of gameplay and balance, I think its a fair argument to make

[urban flax]

This is the opposite of a logical thought

[hybrid matrix]

i cant tell whether or not ur supporting my argument

[dry osprey]

Bull. Ive worked in a factory nearly my whole life and you can do just about anything if youre smart enough

It doesn’t matyer

[hybrid matrix]

dude

[urban flax]

Sure it's a game, but it has to stay believable as much as possible. Skimming ptera isn't as off-putting imo as a ptera (that cannot really do any damage) tearing chunks of meat from a body while flying

[hybrid matrix]

a pteranodon doesnt have apposable thumbs

[hybrid matrix]

exactly

[dry osprey]

If were making it believable as possible, dieno should one shot stego on the head.

Didnt mean to reply to myself.

[urban flax]

They're not making the game "as believable as possible" they're making it just believable enough so that it doens't breaks immersion

[dry osprey]

Youre the one who said it

[hybrid matrix]

i agree but only in a later update

as much as possible
not as possible

[dry osprey]

If were making the game believable enough to not break immersion, we can talk about the strains

[urban flax]

And I'm not saying for 100% that ptera tearing chunks of meat from corpses while flying would totally break immersion. But I'd find it weird for sure.

[hybrid matrix]

same

[urban flax]

Common argument

[tiny geyser]

It’s actually useful since if we are using the beak ptera shouldn’t skim feed and rather dive, but it doesn’t due to gameplay purposes.

Ptera being able to snatch of flesh chunks, while unrealistic, is something to help aid in gameplay as right now it has no real good scavenging skills other than it can fly which is incredibly useful but that’s about it.
sorry for the late response

[hybrid matrix]

using the strains as an argument about immersion is dumb bc ur only ever gonna see a strain once in ur entire lifetime

[dry osprey]

Aight. So we draw the line at Ptra filling a scav role, but not at featherless utah, rhino anky, the fact that a pack of carnos can viably end a stego, or the fact carno can kill dienos

[urban flax]

My concern is that maybe that'd give it too much of an advantage ?

[full canopy]

yeah, ptera is already really good

[tiny geyser]

Fair, the air break could play a part. Help slow your speed or else your likely to just crash while trying.

I’m not advocating for this, but I’m not saying it’s a terrible thought. The pulling of flesh while flying that is

[urban flax]

Ptera can already pretty much get fed without landing thanks to skim fishing. If it could also eat from any carcass without even putting itself in danger, that might become too much

[hybrid matrix]

we're getting feathers as a customization option later
i hate rhino anky's dent
i hate that carnos can kill a stego
and i hate that carno can kill a dein-just kidding this is fine as long as the fight is on land
if carnos are beating deinos in water then HOW

[dry osprey]

Because Carno hits more

[urban flax]

Limiting it to small carcasses not only feels better for immersion because that's more realistic, but it also takes away from ptera a tool that could be really too strong

[dry osprey]

I still havent tried dieno, but its p easy to merk them as a carno

[hybrid matrix]

seriously tho im fine with carnos killing deinos as long as its on land

if a deino is fighting ANYTHING on land then it deserves death

[dry osprey]

You can drag a carno into the water twice while biting it and it can still swim away and out of the water

[tiny geyser]

Ye, log lad

[full canopy]

I always end up using more stamina with a running takeoff with ptera, anyone else experience this?

[urban flax]

But if you drag it only once it drowns

[hybrid matrix]

shoulda kept grabbing it until it drowned

[urban flax]

Yes, it's broken balancing. Just be RP and use the standing takeoff

[dry osprey]

No, it doesn’t. Case in point, Ive had 0 problems as a carno against dienos

[swift dew]

if your playing deino and carnos are escaping the water your doing something wrong, first of all it swims at about 1 inch per year, and second you just hold it underwater and drown it

[dry osprey]

Still does more damage faster

[hybrid matrix]

bc basically all deinos are dumber than a potato

[hybrid matrix]

hide under the water and bite its feet

[dry osprey]

So you have to use an extort to fight it

And bite its feet

And thats not immersion breaking?

[hybrid matrix]

no bc thats how u get escaped prey

[dry osprey]

Ive yet to see an animal merk another animal by nibbling its toes- yes, but wasnt the argument of ptra not being able to steal tiny bits of meat because its not believable ?

[hybrid matrix]

ptera grabbing meat while flying is like seeing the neurotenic mastermind

neither of them fit in

[dry osprey]

I mean neither is a dieno desperately biting toes of a carno to viably kill it

[swift dew]

what? you don't bite a carnos toes to kill it, you lunge it and hold it underwater to drown it

[dry osprey]

Im also for making fish give less food and increasing ptras h- scroll up im not explaining it again

Hunger drain

[hybrid matrix]

yeah i agree about the hunger drain

certain fish should give less food

[dry osprey]

Also Im pretty sure, I might be wrong about this one, but hypsi didn’t look like a bird of paradise or spit blinding stomach acid

[hybrid matrix]

its based off of the king saxony bird

[dry osprey]

Im aware of what bird its based off of, but hypsi was also a dinosaur

[hybrid matrix]

OH the actual dino

[dry osprey]

If Cerato is filling the vulture niche, I dont see why Ptra cant act similarly to a crow. Plus, giving it this feature is a risk-reward

[hybrid matrix]

cera is a hyena

ptera is the vulture

[dry osprey]

Cera is the hyena? I got that impression from the Dilo

Hunting in packs, bullying predators out of their prey, eating alive ect

[urban flax]

Dilo is a
Uh, what nich is dilo supposed to fill ?
Panther maybe ?

[swift dew]

nah, dilo is fills the niche of the monster under your bed that comes out at night and makes you shit yourself

[icy lion]

dilo is a dilo

[urban flax]

Yes, it's that
Boogeyman niche

[dry osprey]

Idk, Cera strikes me more as a vulture in its concept art. Sure it doesn’t fly but its cleaning up rotting corpses

[hybrid matrix]

hyenas do that too

[urban flax]

But it's also bullying other animals
Which vultures don't do

[dry osprey]

Voltures will bully animals

[urban flax]

European vultures don't

[dry osprey]

Im not sure where you got thay from

Voltures will straight up steal kills from cheetahs by harrassing them

[hybrid matrix]

HEY LIONS TOO!!

[dry osprey]

Yeah voltures are bullies

[swift dew]

and hyenas...

[urban flax]

He means that lions steal cheetahs kills too

[dry osprey]

My point stands, vultures are bullies

Theyll steal kills from anything they outnumber by harassing them

They aint brawling

[urban flax]

Still, Cerato isn't supposed to fill a vulture niche, because it's not going to outnumber things but it's going to brawl

[dry osprey]

Assuming Cera is strong enough to do so, considering its weaker than allo

[urban flax]

Cera is specifically made to be small but strong
It sure wouldn't beat an Allo, but would put up a tough fight

[dry osprey]

I bring that up because Cera will probably be meant to bully lowtiers, and lowtiers tend to stick in packs. If cera can’t viably bully a small pack of something, it doesn’t really fill the roll

[swift dew]

well allo is a lion, if cerato is a hyena then it takes multiple of them to be able to take one down

[dry osprey]

Well i never said cera should be bullying a allo

That seems like a death sentance

Hyenas are also pack animals though

[swift dew]

hold up

[dry osprey]

Holding

[swift dew]

im confused, whats your reasoning behind cerato being like a vulture

[dry osprey]

Well, for one its not a pack hunter, which Hyenas are

[carmine path]

Cera gangs be like 😑

[dry osprey]

For second, it doesnt rely on packs to bully other predators for there meals

[hybrid matrix]

who says cera isnt a pack hunter?

[urban flax]

You just said that vultures assemble in groups to attack something bigger though

[hybrid matrix]

hyenas dont do that

[dry osprey]

Voltures dont work together

And yes, hyenas do????

[hybrid matrix]

hyenas kill their own food

[carmine path]

Clearly you haven’t been to Florida

[hybrid matrix]

lions steal hyena kills

[barren zephyr]

And vice versa

[dry osprey]

I live in Florida and am specifically talking about Africa this entire time

Hyenas do steal kills

[swift dew]

well yeah, hyenas gang up to bully big things, but they would be perfectly fine on their own bullying around smaller things

[barren zephyr]

Yes, lions do actually steal kills from smaller packs of Hyenas.

[hybrid matrix]

generally lions do it more

[barren zephyr]

It works both ways, and they are competing predators.

[dry osprey]

Voltures will only work together as long as theyre getting a kill out of it and go their separate ways

[barren zephyr]

Vultures don't kill their food usually

They just scavenge

[carmine path]

Why are you all talking bout some vultures when it was post to be Cera/Allo

[dry osprey]

Theres going to be differences like that in both arguments here. Hyenas dont use poision to kill their victims

Or make them hellucinate rather

Because were talking about its niche

[barren zephyr]

Tho new world vultures/vultures in the Americas are more prone to killing young animals than old world vultures.

[dry osprey]

Voltures also have a very special bacteria in their stomach to make them eat carcasses other animals can’t

Which fits it being able to eat toxic maggy

And real rotten shit but I digress

[carmine path]

Tasmanian Devil niche 🧐

[swift dew]

I see quetz as the vulture of the isle, and cerato as the hyenas, i mean this magy killing section doesn't seem very vulture like

[carmine path]

More accurate

[dry osprey]

Quetz makes a better voltures than Ptra at least, which was the original argument

Ptra simply doesn’t have the stam to be harassing predators out of their meals like vultures do

Cerato fills it much better, and depending how they do quetz probably quetz

[urban flax]

Ptera is a Griffon vulture

[dry osprey]

Wasnt there talk about night hunter Quetz though?

[carmine path]

Quetz is Scavenger/Opportunistic Hunter so vulture niche works for quetz

[dry osprey]

If ptra is a volture it has more of a reason to be given this options. As of right now they can pretty much be invincible anyway by eating off fish, landing in a safe place ect. If they risk swooping to steal a piece of meat, they risk being snatched out of the sky by whatever is eating the body

[urban flax]

You can't really snatch a ptera swooping actually

Unless you're a jedi

[dry osprey]

You have to get pretty low down to do that, given how small ptra is. And if its givin a the same slowing skim mechanic, it would slow down

That gives any predator being attentive to its surrounding a chance to merk a ptra

[urban flax]

If you're slowing down during the time it takes to rip a chunk of meat, it's about 0.5 second

If you're slowing down for longer it's just... a weird mechanic

[dry osprey]

The ptra still has to swoop down to get it, and still has to skim to get the chunk. If a predator allows a ptra to swoop in its face it seems like a reactionary problem

[urban flax]

Skim to get the chunk ? Like, skim through flesh ?

[dry osprey]

Mechanic of the skim

Not actually skimming

How it reacts whil youre near water. Should have a similar reaction when swooping close enough to a corpse. Otherwise, how exactly is ptra supposed to be a volture?

[urban flax]

Just allow it to grab while airborne for that matter

[dry osprey]

Its not getting the ability to eat rotten corpses as far as I know

[swift dew]

I see ptera as a seagull that doesn't live at the coast, where it eats fish mostly but also likes to eat whatever is lying around

[urban flax]

Like actual vultures ? Land and eat ?

[dry osprey]

Therefore predators will simply have to abandon their corpses

Fresh

At that point its not even worth it to go from the safety of just simply skimming for fish and eating it and staying 100% safe

Not a lot of players leave fresh corpses laying around

[urban flax]

Unless you're not near a fishing spot

[dry osprey]

Youll still need a fresh corpse

[urban flax]

Ptera will probably be able to eat rotten corpses

[dry osprey]

Theres been no word ptra will be eating rotten corpses, only cera is confirmed for that

[urban flax]

Cera, quetz and ptera are all three supposed to be scavenging

[swift dew]

don't forget compy

[dry osprey]

So what makes Quetz simply not a better ptra if theyre filling the exact same niche?

[urban flax]

yeah compy too

[frank quest]

Flying scavenging will prolly be reserved for quetz, along with the occasional child. But ptera was mostly a fisher, a coastal one at that :/

[swift dew]

quetz doesn't fish

[urban flax]

Not the exact same
Quetz won't fish

[dry osprey]

So the ptra continues to stay safe

You still have the same problem

[urban flax]

Which problem ?

[dry osprey]

There’s barely any risk of playing ptra

[swift dew]

ptera still has to drink, you can get ambushed by both deinos, and land animals while drinking

[urban flax]

Plus deino is getting a vertical lunge specifically to deal with pteras

[swift dew]

but yeah, thats what happens when you are able to fly, you circumvent most threats

[dry osprey]

You can also jump into the air which prety much moots that. You cant exactly run something down in the sky

[bold palm]

I really think they need to add sickness or something for mix packing, over packing in groups that are too big etc.

[dry osprey]

Dieno is really the only danger to ptra

[urban flax]

That's harder to do than you think

[frank quest]

They fill completely different niches, pteras usually never go on land and stick to coastal areas, fishing from the ocean or eating crabs and crustaceans from the rocks and pools, quetz is the airline cleanup crew and the thing that haunts every solo hatchlings nightmares, idk where you got them being the same from

[bold palm]

distance, if they are in the vicinity of each other for too long.

[swift dew]

this could also get abused

[dry osprey]

Theyre arguing that ptra fills the same voltue niche

[urban flax]

THen what if two packs of the same species are fighting ?

[dry osprey]

Idk why Im @onyx cape, if yall wanna jump in go ahead but at least read the convo

[urban flax]

Or if two packs are hanging out on both sides of a large rock, and they don't know each other is there ?

[dry osprey]

Oop

[frank quest]

Oh, wasn’t here for the whole conversation lmao- just saw your message and figured it was you who thought that

[dry osprey]

I didnt mean to @ somone there

[bold palm]

It wouldn't be instand, but say you have 5 utahs, and the pack limit is 9, you get 10 in the group, people start to get ill. slightly ill, this would indicate, you're over packed, split up.

[urban flax]

If the pack limit is 9 you just don't get 10 in the group

[frank quest]

Nah man it’s just Ed, Ed is chill

[bold palm]

It would also not kick in for a bit so if 2 packs come in contact they wouldn't get sick right away, just if they chilled with each other for like 20 mins

[bold palm]

You would if you had babies

[swift dew]

this could be abused by a pack of utahs rotating in and out of the radius, and giving one utah who doesn't want status effects the effects, and the other ones will not get it because they are entering and leaving the radius

[urban flax]

Then it's basically nothing, because your two packs join each other for a 19-minute hunt then split

[urban flax]

So if you get babies while in a pack you become sick ?

[dry osprey]

Damn I was so busy arguing about ptra I burnt my fucking tator tots

[frank quest]

I actually had an idea for this, herbs if they hang around bodies for too long will begin to develop debuffs from being near said dead thing- to prevent the large problem of corpse gaurding etc

[bold palm]

I believe it would help push natural separation, you can argue abuse all day long.

that is what balancing is for.

[swift dew]

anyway this isnt what was in #general-feedback so lets move this to #401464048610312195

[frank quest]

Oh shiii unlucky

[bold palm]

anyway, saw a group of like 8 deinos, and a stego mix packing which is not going to happen in real life lets be honest.

[urban flax]

Yes, but when a mechanic is so easy to abuse then it's better to find something else

[bold palm]

Well you could abuse anything really.

[frank quest]

How would someone abuse this though

[urban flax]

I just gave 3 examples

[frank quest]

It’s a debuff for all dinosaurs involved

[urban flax]

And I'm not usually the kind of guy who find abuses to mechanics

[frank quest]

So I don’t really see how someone would use this to their advantage

[swift dew]

personally I think group limits should be removed later on, because I say, if you can manage to feed 20 rexes, then congrats you get to have a 20 player rex pack, but good luck on not starving

[dry osprey]

How about a mega scent? If theres more of the same species in the area than there should be, they leave behind or produce a mega scent

[urban flax]

That works with apexes, but not small things like Utahs, because they are way easier to feed

[dry osprey]

I know they planned this for herds

[urban flax]

This is already a better solution

[bold palm]

I don't know, I wouldn't be out to abuse the game, just think there should be something to keep groups from over packing and or mix packing with other dinos that are not natural.

[urban flax]

But I can't think of anything that could prevent mixpacking, it's really a sensitive problem

[dry osprey]

I think mixpacking will just have to be under server admins/mods rules unfortunately

[swift dew]

the affinity system might help (if its still planed) but it wont completly stop it

[dry osprey]

Id suggest a stress system here but, knowing how that worked out for bob, its a terrible idea

[frank quest]

Overpacking isn’t really a problem currently though- Utah’s are supposed to be in larger packs as it stands and the need for food splits them up. I feel like it should just be for mixpacking through carni/herb or certain herb/herb groups. Like trikes and stegos. Just a general comfort debuff if near eachother for over 10-15 mins

[urban flax]

The problem is if it applies after a cooldown, people can just go in an out of the area to reset the cooldown, and completely ignore the mechanic

If it's instant, then it's just tedious and bothersome

[frank quest]

Well bobs is just overly complicated and way to unthought of- no animal is gonna die of being uncomfortable in the rain, or being near a carnivore for 5 mins. Just a toned down and more of a- we encourage you to be in your habitat and eat your own food, if you don’t do that then here’s a scent debuff, growth slow, and you stick out like a sore thumb because your colors aren’t meant for this area

[bold palm]

nature is a fickle beast, for example, some amazon species get brain parasites a mold type thing that wipes them out if they get overpopulated.

[dry osprey]

Bobs stress system also ruins it for ambush hunters, which is why Bob rex has that broken ambush speed

Sometimes as a predator you have to stalk your prey or a herd for an extended time waiting for an opening

You shouldn’t get a debuff for playing your niche right

[frank quest]

Well I think it’s really obvious that bob isn’t a very- good game, just that it has some mechanics the isle was planning to have, and are great examples of what not to do with said mechanics in the future

[urban flax]

There's also some things that would be interpreted as mixpacking by the mechanic but isn't.
For example there was one time where, as a ptera, I was following a group of stegos, hoping that they get attacked by a carnivore and kill it so I could eat the remains
But is that mixpacking ?

[dry osprey]

^Exactly my point

[frank quest]

Again, it has a certain range and won’t apply to certain dinosaurs

[urban flax]

So pteras are allowed to mixpack but other dinos aren't ?

[dry osprey]

If it doesnt apply to certain dinos, whats stopping them from mixpacking?

[frank quest]

Pteras aren’t really comparable to the deino stego family down the river

[urban flax]

And what if I was a utah following those stegos for remains ?

[molten tulip]

Thats a very clunky and inefficient way to discourage mixpacking

Also I dont think our servers need even more environment checks than necessary

Sniffing itself causes lag already

[frank quest]

Because some things like, dryo maia edmonto/shant herds make sense, and you shouldn’t be punished for it- the range wouldn’t be so far out to punish a predator for stalking and it would take around 15-20 minutes to take effect, and also not apply if your attacking said animals

[urban flax]

As I said, it's completely useless if it takes 15 minutes to take effect

idk, maybe they crashed ?

[frank quest]

I’m not trying to say that THIS is the idea that needs to be in the game, just I agree with the intent behind I and something like it should be implemented

[bright dune]

boys what are your thought abt same species killing each other ?

[urban flax]

not a problem

[dry osprey]

Depends on the species

[frank quest]

It’s a qa test version, it’s buggy- servers constantly go down

[molten tulip]

Imo the legacy version worked well, just call an admin and they kick the mixpackers and you get free food

[dry osprey]

Cera, and Dilo for example? Makes sense

[urban flax]

But devs want no rules on evrima official servers

[molten tulip]

Its frustrating but there's nothing wrong with it

If youre hungry you're hungry

[dry osprey]

Why dont we tweak the mega scent idea?

[frank quest]

Devs used to talk about how if you killed to many of your own species you would start to turn albino- and become more reliant on your own species for food because of it, like another cerato would be your preferred food if you cannibalized too much in a certain time period- honestly a really cool idea, but I don’t feel like you should turn super albino, and this would take place if you killed like 20 of your own species in 2 hours ofc

[molten tulip]

^ thats a nice mechanic

[dry osprey]

Instead of a scent being produced that many dinos can see, including large predators, when you overpack- why not make it for when theres multiple dinos in a area?

[molten tulip]

I mean there already kind of is

[urban flax]

What I was thinking about was to remove hard group limits and replace them with soft group limits - if you overpack you start to emit a scent cloud, that gets bigger and bigger the more you are

[molten tulip]

If you see a big yellow stink cloud you know there's tons of people there

[urban flax]

But now I see a flaw about it, people will just hang around in small packs like they are doing now

[frank quest]

Yeah- a huge discouragement to cannibalzing unless you really need it, hurts your solo hunting and warns other players aswell- I feel like instead of being albino there should be a scent indicator as to if they’re a cannibal or not tho

[dry osprey]

It should be produced if theres multiple species in one area though

[bright dune]

exactly so here is me and what happenned , im new player , got the game 3 days ago , i have abt 20 hours annd i mainnly played croc , now the prb is soon i realized the only thing that kills me is other crocs who happen to be adults , annd nnot just like that they move in a grp of atleast 2 , so in this 20 hours i learned that i got to run away from adults as soon as i see them , and yet they chase me , the last time i died i died on top of a mountain , after being chased for 10 mins , is it wrong to ask for some sort of mechannics to allow me to run for my life ? cause there is literally nnothing i cann do abt this , surely you can imagine yourself being a full adult minding your own thinngs annd then 2 assholes come and chase you to other side of the world to kill you and there nno way for you to fight back or run away , do you agree ? sry it was lonnng

[molten tulip]

Nah the albino works

[dry osprey]

Not a ton- but if you have like 2 utah, a rex, and a spoon? Biiiiiig scent

[frank quest]

It already does that tho- the yellow cloud is produced for player count not species count

[dry osprey]

Im talking more

An actual, trackable scent like the food or water scents

[frank quest]

It comes up at 8 players tho

It’s very trackable

It has the same radius as water and food

And call radius is longer so you can follow that too

[dry osprey]

Maybe its the issue with the particles but ive yet to see it

[frank quest]

It’s really hard to miss

Literally a giant yellow cloud in your scent

8 or more players in a vacinity for more than 5 mins and the cloud comes up I think

Could be wrong but that’s usually the circumstances I find it in

[bright dune]

did annyonne read that long thinng i wrote ? im suggesting a sort of mechanism that allows me to survive that sort of encounter with my own species

[ebon wyvern]

Anyone know how to fix this swimming glitch? Can't see to get away from it

[dry osprey]

Again, here must be a particle issue because Ive never seen said yellow cloud

[frank quest]

Well as it stands deino takes 8 headshots to kill a stego, keep in mind carno takes 5, one stego can solo 3 adult deinos and live. And in the stress test you have higher chances of winning the lottery than seeing a tenonto or carno come anywhere near the water. So other deinos are the only reliable source of food for adults, babies are faster than adults on land and have more stam- so you just run on shore and tada

[full canopy]

btw does anyone know if they plan on adding the t-rex and spino into the game? couldn't see it on the roadmap.

[frank quest]

It is shitty that you have to deal with every adult coming after you but that’s why you have to play deino very carefully when growing, aka find a secluded spot and sit there and eat fish

[urban flax]

Yes they do, but later

[frank quest]

They do, just later in the map- I know it’s being shuffled around but if they add rex or spino right now the game is gonna be very unbalanced, why I hate how deino and stego came so early

[bright dune]

i don't thinnk babies can runn faster on land , this last death of mine i got out of water annd ran cause i saw them kill someone else , not only they sprinnted in water and onn land after i got out annd started sprintinnng , but they caught up eventually

[dry osprey]

In fairness, dieno was a necessary addition Aqa. Being the base of every semi aquatic and all

[frank quest]

Because their trot is faster than yours, it’s only the sprint and stam that babies have on adults- your best bet is to wait for them to get super close and water and then book it so they get discouraged

[frank quest]

Bary or sucho would’ve done just fine, and sucho was already more complete than deino

[urban flax]

Personnally I don't really care about the game balance in it's current state. It's gonna be changed at some point, so why bother ?
On the other hand I understand why people care so much about it

[frank quest]

Not saying it’s gonna change anything but deino right now is fucked seeing as nobody plays anything else and if they do you can’t kill stegos

[urban flax]

Bary and Sucho are way less aqautic-oriented than deino

[dry osprey]

Sucho wont be spending 90% of its time in the water, which made dieno the better choice for this base

[frank quest]

You only say that because deino would be in the game- if it wasn’t then you already know they’re just gonna sit in lakes and rivers like they do in legacy

[bright dune]

but that isn't what im saying at all , this isn't just a prb for right nnnow , in future lets assume the game fully balances out and there is equal numbers on every dino and everyonne is doing their things as they should , now imagine you have just became annd adult and nnow you not at many disadvantages and suddenly 2 same species assholes come to you and they wanna kill you and if you donn't run off right away as soon as they see you ( which even then they can catch up) there is no way for you to survive

[dry osprey]

Probably not. Bary is getting a jaguar niche

[urban flax]

There is supposedly no situation where you can't run away nor fight from something else as an adult

Ah you mean same species as you
Then its another problem, but nothing can be done about that balance-wise

[bright dune]

from 2 dinos of your own species who also are adult you can't winn a fight nor runn from

[frank quest]

Because again, all these smaller aquatics are based around the fact that now there is a giant gator in the game that can drown you, before deino comes out stuff like bary and sucho have the water to themselves and can stand in for the fisher and be able to solely live off said fish

[urban flax]

If they're your species, you still have the option to run and hide, because they're not going to run faster than you

[dry osprey]

Jaguar bary had been a want before Dieno

[bright dune]

im suggesting a way , like a speed buff when you are attacked by same species or idk somethinng be donne abt it

[dry osprey]

Jaguar Bary has always been very popular of an idea

[silver zephyr]

[bright dune]

if they insist on killing you , you can't do annything

im tellinng you i got chased to a mountain they justt wouldn't let me go

[urban flax]

Then I don't know what to say, but a speed buff isn't the right solution

[frank quest]

Jaguar bary can still be a thing, and would’ve still been released- I’m just saying releasing deino this early is terrible for this “ecosystem” the devs are trying to build and another fisher who can actually live of that food, instead of being forced to cannibalize because nobody plays the dinosaurs they prey off of, and the one dinosaur that people do play they can’t even come close to killing

[urban flax]

Players have the right to eat their own species

Or simply attack them without eating them

[paper oriole]

A speed buff for being attacked by your own kind could probably be abused pretty easily

[dry osprey]

Sucho is needed as the next dino. Sucho isnt meant to fear dieno either, it was meant to compete with dieno

[bright dune]

but if you allow that , onnly the ppl who got friends playing with them and come in group will be able to have fun and actually play

[dry osprey]

Not be balanced to avoid it entirely

[frank quest]

So your saying, sucho is gonna cripwalk up to a deino and wrestle that man one on one

[dry osprey]

But if you added sucho as is, youd have a pretty big semi aquatic that can preform better on land

[urban flax]

No, not always. I managed to have fun and not get killed by my own species pretty much all the time
If you're so afraid of cannibals, just don't play deino

[dry osprey]

I didn’t say that. I’m saying what was intended for them.

[urban flax]

You'll see pteras are usually chill and friendly towards other players

[dry osprey]

The best think you can do against cannibals is fight better, or make yourself nearly undetectable in the first place

[frank quest]

So then nerf it’s speed on land, which is already gonna be slower than Utah and tenonto- if released right now sucho would live off literally just fish and scavenging- unlike deino who can’t

[bright dune]

i been playing for 20 hours now annd i havenn't made it past 40% growth and every time i died was by fellow adult crocs in teams

[dry osprey]

Sucho aint gonna be living off 100% fish

[paper oriole]

Deino is also making up like 60% of server slots rn so complaining about cannibalism is useless when you are playing the most overpopulated animal

[urban flax]

As I said, just don't play deino
They are both the only predator and the only prey available currently

[dry osprey]

Dieno is also slower than teno and utah anyway

[frank quest]

Literally as it stands nobody plays anything else except deino and ptera, the devs should’ve known this- which is why the game is so aids to play atm, because deino does not naturally fit into the game

[swift dew]

then try a different strategy, like trying to grow deino by hiding in the jungle for example, there are plenty of people growing deinos don't complain about you sucking

[dry osprey]

If you added sucho youd have the same problem. Sucho is a big pseudo apex

[bright dune]

...
i get that it is only a prb for right now , but as i said in future with all the tinngs balannced and all if there is no system to prevennnt toxic players to be toxic then the same species of yours will always be your demise

[frank quest]

But that’s what it’s supposed to live off now no? And it would be if people actually played them, let alone went near the water

[dry osprey]

Youd have a bunch of suchos eating each other and eating anything that went to the water/landed in it. Yeah it aint going to lunge but its faster than die on land

[frank quest]

So for the time being, sucho can get enough food from fish to live off them and them alone, and then nerf the food values later when more dinosaurs get added

[dry osprey]

But suchos wouldnt. These are players

Players are going to smite anything they can get their teeth on

[urban flax]

There's nothing to be done about that sadly

[dry osprey]

Regardless of the dino. Its brand new and shiny

T

They want to play it, they want to see what it can take on and eat

[bright dune]

so you admitedly are saying the only way to play this and grow is to go hide in bush till you grow , annnnd even then after 8 hours of waiting just 2 ranndom assholes come and kill you

[frank quest]

Yes but again, kos players get smaller in population when their own species isn’t the only reliable food source they have

[dry osprey]

Dieno gets a lot of food from elite fish

[bright dune]

but if some thought are to be spennt onn it surely something can be done

[dry osprey]

Still merks anything they can

[swift dew]

I said try a different strategy, then I gave you an example of one, don't call people assholes because they killed you in a survival game

[bright dune]

but from the replies i got so far its like no one even thinks it a prb

[paper oriole]

It isnt a problem because when so many people are playing one predator this is going to happen

[bright dune]

they didn't kill me to survive they killed me cause they assholes , who chases a baby croc to a mounntain while there is plenty of fish innnn river

[swift dew]

it isnt a problem, deino is supposed to be hell to grow, otherwise instead of the 30 adult deinos we have now on each server, we would have 80

[urban flax]

Maybe there isn't something to be done ? You can't prevent players for playing the way they want unless it's obviously trolloing or mechanic abuse. You're not supposed to trust anyone in this game.

[dry osprey]

Because theres not plenty of fish. They eat all the fish.

Which would be a problem for sucho too

[frank quest]

I know that new dinosaurs are popular and people play them, which is the whole basis for my argument- if a developer knows this they need to make the animal able to survive with the absence of the intended food source no matter if it allows you to afk grow it or not- it’s a separate branch for a reason. If nobody plays anything except deino and ptera what’s your food source? Other deinos, with sucho it has fish- so people won’t be forced into cannibalism just because they wanted to play as the new Dino

[bright dune]

there was fish there ,annd they killed some other kid right before chasinng me

[willow gorge]

idk if i must put this here but....

[swift dew]

multiple reasons, they are taking out the competition by reseting your growth and discouraging you from playing deino, they are also getting food out of it

[urban flax]

And fighting other people is more exciting than eating fish

[dry osprey]

If sucho eats all the fish and competes with others to eat the fish- being ptra, there still wouldnt be enough fish to go around

[bright dune]

that wasn't much of a figh twas it ? onnly a 10 min chase of a baby croc

[dry osprey]

Killing suchos as a sucho wouldnt even be kosing, it would also be used to remove comp from fishing

[frank quest]

But fish spawns are already fucked imo, you get 2 elite fish every chunk instead of an actual fish population you can live off of- I have to follow 2 whole ass rivers just to find one sometimes

[urban flax]

Still better than clicking on a still fish I guess

[bright dune]

ye they shouldnnn't be allowed to do that , if i brinng 5 friends with me to game annd be safe all the time i wouldnn't have any prb , a game like this shouldnnnn't discourage solo players

[dry osprey]

Youd still have that problems with sucho

[frank quest]

Again, there are two types of fish for a reason- if one elite fish fills half a suchos hunger, there isn’t any competition- just a fisher living off its food source. Not killing its own kind on sight because it can’t eat anything else

[urban flax]

Just a question unrelated to your problem, but it's confusing me since your first message... why are you putting so many n's in your words ?

[bright dune]

my keyboard is broken

lmao

[urban flax]

oh ok

[bright dune]

i cann fix it if i hit the nn buttom really hard gimme a sec

[dry osprey]

Theres still competition. If you have a server comprised of 60% sucho and you only get two elite per chunk, theres still not enough fish to go around. Especially with ptra also eating from the same source

[frank quest]

Which is why I’m saying the fish spawns are fucked, so up them to be like- realistic, if I look in a natural large river in real life I’ll find 20 large fish easy, that’s how fish eaters evolved In The first place, it’s a plentiful food source

[bright dune]

think its fixed

[swift dew]

they shouldn't be allowed to kill you? lmao, and just because you have 5 friends doesn't mean your safe, it just means that one or two of you might get out alive of that enounter, but you still have to survive many more, if the hardcore survival game is too hard for you then go play hypsi

[bright dune]

if i have 5 friends with me there , the 2 would attack me to begin with

[dry osprey]

If that was the case, and given elite fills dieno up, then dieno also wouldn’t be having this issue as much

[urban flax]

You can't really blame people for trying the best they can to eliminate competition...

[dry osprey]

Upping the elite fish count would help feed the masses

[bright dune]

there was no competition there ... just 2 assholes killing every kid they see

[frank quest]

Yes but deino isn’t intended to eat fish as much as sucho or bary- one elite fish gives 10% hunger and ptera only takes 1 schooling fish

[swift dew]

oh.. but but I died so so so.. they... they're.. they're assholes

[urban flax]

I'd say it's the same problem as MMORPG players gathering 50 people to kill a world boss ? Except you're the world boss this time, and I understand it can feel bad...

But that's just part of the game

[bright dune]

and i would be fine to die if i haven't spent the last 20 hours getting killed only by these kind of players

[urban flax]

That's a stress test, this is unavoidable

[bright dune]

yes , will something be done abt it in future ?

[urban flax]

Everybody is playing deino, so what are you gonna kill as a full adult deino ?

[dry osprey]

I really think Bary should be taken out of this argument as a whole because again, Bary will be jaguar Bary

[urban flax]

The servers will automatically balance themselves out once the hype has fallen down a bit a people return to playing different species

[frank quest]

And a again, deino is an apex- they specifically said that apexes weren’t gonna be added as it’s unbalanced- which it is, and yet here we are with stego and deino- causing people to not play dryo or tenonto at all so devs waste their time making ai just so Utah’s and carnos have a reliable food source

[dry osprey]

Bt on that note, what about sucho? If we made it a pure fisher and not a hunter, how will it compete with - Dieno isnt a apex

[frank quest]

Jaguars eat mainly aquatic prey don’t they? Fish, turtles, caiman

[bright dune]

still that doesn't fix the prb of not being able to get away from 2 assholes , imagine you are justt trying to be friendly and talking to 2 random adults

and they attack you and you die to that ...

[dry osprey]

As of right now its in the same boat of stego, not true apexes

At least, in devs eyes

[urban flax]

Don't trust other people in The Isle

And stop calling them assholes, they're just normal players who probably got bored

[dry osprey]

If it was a apex it wouldn’t get absolutely curb stomped by stego, which again, devs confirmed as not an apex

[frank quest]

Compared to other dinosaurs they are, and no matter what anyone says stegos and deinos were the APEX version of each of their niches, stego was the biggest stegosaur/cycad and low hanging tree eater at the time and deino the same

[swift dew]

thats literally the rule in any pvp survival game, just don't trust anyone, if you walk up to them trying to be friendly and they eat you then don't walk up to them next time

[dry osprey]

Dieno shouldn’t be curb stomping stego either, but it should at least have a chance of taking stego down as an apex

But Aqa, thats not their function in game

That much is apparent on how theyre balancing them

[frank quest]

Which is one of my main complaints- deino kills stego in 8 headshots carno takes 5 to kill stego, a single stego can solo 3 deinos and live

[bright dune]

no ... i think the only solution to that is just getting to play with your friends

[dry osprey]

Exactly. Deino is far from an apex

[frank quest]

Literally untrue

[urban flax]

Of course you're better off playing with friends, like in most pvp games

[bright dune]

i can't imagine those 2 attacking me if i had 2 adults with me

[dry osprey]

Its easier to kill the strongest herbie in the game as something that hunts small game. And dieno doesnt stand a chance

Its not an apex

[frank quest]

Deino is literally the aquatic apex, spino is far from an aquatic and deino fits half a sucho in its mouth

[bright dune]

ye and send all solo players away just cause any sort of protectionnn abt these sort of players in just ... idk too much to ask for

[dry osprey]

If dieno is the apex its not balanced as an apex. Carno is stronger than it in its current form

[urban flax]

You can play other things more adapted to solo players
As I said before, pteras are mostly friendly towards other players

[frank quest]

Because again, it’s an apex- but not balanced correctly. Which is why I’m complaining

[dry osprey]

Also??? Last time I checked Suchos were pretty damn big

[bright dune]

what if i do not want to be the weak bird who flies away and i wanna actually hunt something ?

[frank quest]

And last time I checked deino still fits half a fucking sucho in its mouth

[dry osprey]

And last time I checked dieno fits the entirety of stegos head and neck in its giant bone-crushing jaws and yet here we are

[frank quest]

Crocodiles kill buffalos that are twice their size with a 70 percent chance of success

[urban flax]

There's another thing. In games I never play tank characters because I can't play them properly. If you really wanna play deino though, you'd better wait until there's less of them overcrowding the rivers

[dry osprey]

Sure do. too bad game Dieno cant do that.

And isn’t a fair argument to make

[urban flax]

If you wanna play deino, it means you wanna kill other players. You shouldn't be surprised other deino players think the same

[frank quest]

Because again the balance team has uncooked noodles for brains it seems

[dry osprey]

Well we all know this

Anyone whos played the isle since legacy knows

[bright dune]

bruh ... killing of your own species isn't going away

[dry osprey]

Cerato rex anyone?

[bright dune]

i get that it should be allowed ... BUT

for any other encounter

[urban flax]

Deinos are made to be cannibals anyway

[frank quest]

So then why are you basing an argument on the games currently fucked balanced system and then saying it’s fucked to my face, therefore proving I’m right

[bright dune]

and dino vs any dino , there are unique things they can do to get away , or prevent them from being killed , however when its vs your own kind , you.will.die.

[dry osprey]

Because you want sucho in game in place of die o like kt wouldnt be fucked

Holy shit stroke

Because you want sucho in place of dieno like it wouldnt be fucked*

[urban flax]

That's why devs want to discourage cannibalism. But not for deino

[dry osprey]

^Or cera or Dilo(?) p sure dilo

[bright dune]

they do wanna do that ??? all im here for is to tell em to do something abt that

[urban flax]

Deino is supposed to be a cannibal species. Help controlling the population, and more accurate to irl crocs.

[odd sedge]

Not quite in the discussion rn, but I personally fear that dinos like sucho and bary won't be well balanced with the deino around being, ströng and bulky. Sucho isn't the fastest

[frank quest]

If the dinosaurs were swapped right now ofc they will, and ive already said every other environmental change that needs to take place aswell- because the creatures themselves are by far not the only thing that’s fucked. Fish spawns need to be upped, a single elite fish should fill half a suchos hunger- stego should be removed and replaced with a non apex herb- I can go on and on

[bright dune]

i guess its fine if it was only a prb for crocs ...

[dry osprey]

Well this entire argument is pointless. Sucho is big and slow and isnt meant to stay in the water most its life, it would probably end up being stupid strong given theyre balancing based on “if it cant run, it can fight”.

[bright dune]

that will make crocs the team that only ppl witth friends play but thats fine with me

[dry osprey]

We can agree that regardless if what would of been put in, it would of been fucking busted

[frank quest]

The creatures current niches are based off of how deino plays- adult deinos will prolly have their preferred habitat and diet food located in swamps, barys have the large rivers hence the jaguar niche and sucho would hunt in smaller rivers or even at the coasts, fishing things out of tide pools and eating washed up remains of sea animals

[dry osprey]

Especially if dieno is meant to outclass sucho in water instead of sucho being a competition, forcing it onto land

[barren zephyr]

Where did the Jaguar Bary idea even originate?

[frank quest]

How is that unbalanced though- an animal that relies on an easy to obtain food source which then wouldn’t be hunting land creatures except for the small 10% of the time, and therefore not competing with them for anything- if it can’t run it can fight is a saying for being attacked- not attacking. A sucho without deinos wouldn’t be hunting period and only scavenging corpses for the varied diet all semi aquatics would have- and wouldn’t have a problem in the current game state

[tawny juniper]

What hunts small game?

[frank quest]

Idk- I guess it does make some sense, a dinosaur like bary wouldn’t be able to eat corpses very fast so in order to not have other Dino’s walking up on you to take it you can bring it into trees to consume as slow as you like

[dry osprey]

Because it would end up being balanced like “Non apex” stego is in the current game. Again, we already agreed that the balance testing is some kind of buns

[tawny juniper]

Stego isn't apex

It is currently

But in the grand scheme of things

[dry osprey]

My point is that because of that fight for being attacked, and its slower and forced out of the water- yes yes we know read the convo

[tawny juniper]

It's just the largest most powerful current herbivore

[barren zephyr]

Yea I see that, Bary seems quite a bit to large to climb tho. I was thinking maybe Bary could drink salt/brackish water also so it would have less competition with other Spinosaurids.

[dry osprey]

Sucho would end up being a tanky beast. Yeah it aint running down to maul anything but we dont need a nearly untouchable dino like stego in current game without something to properly threaten

[tawny juniper]

Stego is not untouchable

Utah packs

Kind of kill it

[low canopy]

carno and utah make short work out of stego

[weak ermine]

utahs packs wreck steggos

[dry osprey]

Carno is a small game hunter. The fact that carno kills stego is a balance issue

[weak ermine]

you can pounce and get free without getting hit

[low canopy]

it is, but stego is designed this way

[frank quest]

Well yeah but at the same time- sucho being in the game has a completely different effect than stego- sucho isn’t a niche of the main food for land carnivores, stego is providing a near unkillable herb if played right giving herb players no reason to play smaller because it has no natural predators- meanwhile sucho is a separate niche altogether and would just be a benchmark for newer aquatics afterwards

[dry osprey]

I can tell everyones jumping in now without reading anything that was previously said

[low canopy]

same goes for deino, they have weaknesses on purpose

[dry osprey]

No. It takes less hits on the head for a carno to kill a stego than it does dieno. This isnt balanced

[frank quest]

Carno only kills stego in a 3 on one, abusing a glitch in the tail hit box

[tawny juniper]

It is

But continue

[low canopy]

deino is designed around lunge, and encouraged to use it by having lack luster biteforce

[dry osprey]

Carno doing more raw damage than deino makes sense

Carno, the dinosaurs specifically meant to fill the small game hunter niche

[carmine path]

Heh

[frank quest]

[weak ermine]

yeah ambush predators should ambush

[tawny juniper]

The reality of deino shouldn't really be in a position where they are getting killed by carnos

[carmine path]

Im sorry but no

[barren zephyr]

The rivers will have quite a bit of competition with Bary, Sucho, Spino, and Deino hanging around.

[dry osprey]

Carno does more raw damage than dieno as of current state. It takes less bites on the head for a carno to kill a stego than it does a dieno

[low canopy]

this idea of niches is never going to work out realisticly

[frank quest]

Which is why spino isn’t an aquatic, adult deinos should live in swamps, and bary and sucho have rivers

[carmine path]

Shouldn’t be that way in the slightest tbh

[barren zephyr]

How is Spino not aquatic?

[dry osprey]

I was being sarcastic when I said it kade sense

[carmine path]

More semi-aquatic

[dry osprey]

Yall wanted to say it was balanced but as soon as it gets pointed out it “shouldnt be that way”

Pick a lane pls

[barren zephyr]

Well they're all Semiaquatic.

[carmine path]

When you text sarcasm expect confusion

[frank quest]

Ah but it can’t lunge stegos and if your lucky enough to find a teno you still might not kill it, that makes sense

[dry osprey]

Not my problem

[carmine path]

But it is

[low canopy]

How about stegos that just die to utahs, do you call that fair? both "apexes" are in shit hole atm since neither should be in game yet

[dry osprey]

Its not. I was arguing against the fact yall were saying it was balanced for carno killing stego easier

[frank quest]

Have you seen the isles spino, their jp3 fan character, the thing with long legs and no aquatic adaptations

[dry osprey]

If you cant put two and two together, thats not my problem

[carmine path]

No one said that tho

[dry osprey]

Again, pick a lane pls

[frank quest]

That’s exactly my point

[dry osprey]

Yes? Absolutely?

[carmine path]

Bro do you see my PFP i picked a lane

[dry osprey]

“deino is designed around lunge, and encouraged to use it by having lack luster biteforce”

[barren zephyr]

I have, but I still figure fishing and swamp dwelling will be a big part of its gameplay.

[dry osprey]

Well maybe if you had read the convo before jumping in youd know i was directly replying to that

[low canopy]

that was me, and that is true 100%

[frank quest]

So that makes absolutely no sense, lmao

[dry osprey]

Again, your lack of reading understanding is not my problem

[tawny juniper]

Deino is supposed to go in rivers and not attack items too large for it... Makes sense to me.

[barren zephyr]

How so?

[tawny juniper]

What do you not understand

Deino is not a brawler

[dry osprey]

So then Carno doing more base damage than Dieno makes perfect sense?

[low canopy]

carno should be nerfed tbh

[tawny juniper]

Carno does need a nerf

[carmine path]

Already has

[dry osprey]

Obviously not enough

[carmine path]

Carno nerf deino buff

[dry osprey]

If its doing more raw base damage than a dieno

Which I have repeated several times now, yet has managed to go over everyones head repeatedly

[manic flint]

They have temporarily nerfed deino to balance with the current roster and will be buffed eventually

[tawny juniper]

But deino is not supposed to fighting stegos in the first place

[dry osprey]

Neither is carno

[carmine path]

Deino needs buff in general with how the map is laid out and stegos ability to completely ignore deinos at all

[dry osprey]

Thats my point

[frank quest]

An animal not designed for anything aquatic as it’s a unoriginal jp ripoff, with even its mouth losing the main thing that it adapted to catch fish(conical teeth, jaw notch) and you say it’s going to feed off mainly aquatic animals

[dry osprey]

Spino is literally spino rex

[carmine path]

It is not meant to fight stegos but it should stand tremendous advantage if a stego is in the water, and yet it doesn’t have the biteforce necessary to inflict dmg to kill it in the water

[frank quest]

Yeah I wish the design team figured it was time to make something that made sense and looked cool, but nah murder my giga and spino- at least I still have allo, so looks like I’m an allo main now

[steady lintel]

@tiny salmon alt bite and you can turn anywhere you want

[dry osprey]

I cant even begin to guess how our spino is supposed to fit a unique niche with its design

[barren zephyr]

I see what you mean, however I don't think the jaws will be as useless as your saying for fishing. They look fine for fishing, maybe not as good as in reality but not unable to fish.

[frank quest]

Gigantic crocodile, hypo spino looks but without the split jaw and hypo spikes- giant meat hook arms and crocodile tail, tustles with deino like a badass and also swims

[dry osprey]

Our spino looks subpar at swimming. It doesn’t even have the proper paddle tail

[frank quest]

Yeah- which is why I hate the design and wish it was like what I just said

[dry osprey]

I was agreeing. Our spino is incredibly sad to look at right now. Right there with fat albert

[barren zephyr]

@frank quest Not super realistic but I don't think it would be unable to fish.

[frank quest]

Oh yeah- poor man the devs forgot he wasn’t a sub rex

[dry osprey]

This mans doesnt even have webbing on his feet or hands

[idle fjord]

is Stress test NA6 still down?

[dry osprey]

At best that spino can wade fish, but it aint swimming or being aquatic

[frank quest]

I’m not saying unable to, but if an animal evolved to look like that it’s sure as hell not to be a fisher

[barren zephyr]

Spino could most certainly use some updating, but I'm not against the base model.

[frank quest]

ffs a Utah “could” fish but it’s not going to

[dry osprey]

Mind you, the spine on a spino isn’t to help it swimming- it causes a lot of drag and was probably, realistically used for display

Therefore our spino doesnt have anything aquatic about it, other than the slightly elongated face

[barren zephyr]

I mean yeah that makes sense but they're also genetically modified, I mean look at fricking Beipi!

[carmine path]

Spino = River Dweller

[manic flint]

I think the spinos snout notch thing should be a bit more pronounced

[barren zephyr]

Agreed

[frank quest]

So the ptera sure looks genetically modified to me- oh or the para, wow that deino looks like it sure is deformed

[dry osprey]

Shant looks promising

[frank quest]

It’s the lack of cohesive design and on and off make sense ray gun that blows my mind

[barren zephyr]

They don't all look different but quite a few do.

[frank quest]

I’m not some realism protestor but I still want the dinosaurs to look cool, and make sense

[dry osprey]

Rhino anky

[frank quest]

[barren zephyr]

Yea it diffidently needs changes, but the base model isn't bad.

[barren zephyr]

Who cares what matters "Realistically"

It would take a massive piss on the balance of the game, please re-read what me and bublblu said before replying

[dry osprey]

Genetic modifications are fine, if all the dinosaurs actually looked like that or had aspects of it showing

[barren zephyr]

Imagine losing your 5 hour growth dino in a matter of seconds

That would kill the stego player base

[dry osprey]

But things like Hypsi and Rhino anky, next to ptra or shant, looks like completely different games

[barren zephyr]

And deino doesn't HAVE to be able to fight stego, it can avoid the fight.

[dry osprey]

Hypsi isn’t bad- I enjoy its design a lot actually

But it doesn’t change the fact that some of these creatures don’t look like they belong

[barren zephyr]

They're all modified more or less to fit into a semiartificial ecosystem.

[dry osprey]

But not all of them are designed like that

[frank quest]

Yes but that also does not mean that they would look like Albert or spino

[dry osprey]

It isnt that they used irl animal combinations. Its the lack of direction

[barren zephyr]

Exactly, more or less to fit into the ecosystem.

[frank quest]

Because both of them are basically modified to be something else (cough cough T. rex)

[dry osprey]

Why do we need a modified Rex when we already have a rex?

[barren zephyr]

Yes but as I'm sure you know the Isle is not really about realism.

[dry osprey]

That doesn’t fit into the ecosystem, its just bad design

[paper geyser]

this can't be excused with whatever in-game lore explanation you have about genetic modification, it's a blatant lack of direction. New concepts have been showing exaggerated proportions that barely resemble the original animal whatsoever while other models show incredibly accurate proportions and overall design.

[dry osprey]

Alberto doesn’t even look like a mutation, it looks cartoony

[frank quest]

Your design philosophy would make sense if said dinosaurs looked like this- I’ve been working on some concept redesigns and I have the Utah somewhat finished, it’s not jp but again also fitting into a proper niche “large bulky raptor that travels in 4-5 adult family groups, hunter of small and medium prey”

If you modified dinosaurs to fit a niche like you say they would look like that, not the accurate dino but also like- feasable?

[barren zephyr]

This is true. However the Isle isn't about realism. Although it would be nice if it was made more real.

[dry osprey]

Its not even a realism problem

[paper geyser]

I'm not talking about realism, i'm talk about a consistent art direction

[dry osprey]

You dont need to make these animals exactly how they were

You can stylize them, but that doesn’t mean a bad design isnt a bad design

[frank quest]

Not mr “large aquatic fisher, adept for swimming but also for competing for prey” over here

[paper geyser]

we have two groups of animals right now, the exaggerated/hybrid ones and the accurate/proportionate ones. It's a complete divide in the game

[dry osprey]

Bep is styalized and overall, is pretty good of a design

[frank quest]

Who despite being set for a niche, looks like he belongs in a completely different one- the only aquatic thing I see on the spino right now is the tail- and the only fishing thing I see is maybe the claws

[dry osprey]

What makes it good is like Kato said: proportions

The tail isn’t even the accurate paddle tail^

[manic flint]

They should give spino its fourth toe (the enlarged du claw) ik that it's not supposed to be accurate but it would just differentiate it from other creatures and make it look for semi aquatic

[dry osprey]

It also looks shorter, which makes it harder to use as a paddle

[barren zephyr]

First of all great job on the redesigns your Utah looks fantastic, and I totally see where your coming from. But what exactly do you mean not being feasible?

[paper geyser]

the only real "water" feature on that spino is the heron neck and the long snout

[frank quest]

The spinos literal two best water adaptations have just been thrown out the window, larger for limbs than hind limbs for swimming, which is gone, and the conical teeth, thin snout and jaw notch- which it now has a smoothed out notch and recurved teeth- along with a broad snout

[manic flint]

A paddle tail would look nice too...

[barren zephyr]

Indeed

[paper geyser]

this spino was modelled before the tail discovery so that can be excused

[manic flint]

They could always change it

[glad dirge]

still

[manic flint]

The tail won't be the main focus of many animations excusing swimming

[paper geyser]

doubt they'll waste time remodelling just a tail when they could be working on more important things

[manic flint]

So it's possible

[barren zephyr]

There schedule seems quite packed currently, and it's certainly not impossible for them to update it in the future.

[frank quest]

Because like I just said for spino- Utah is a “bulky dromaeosaur that lived solo or in family groups with up to 4-6 members, nimble enough to team on medium herbs but strong enough to tustle with pachy and other herbs it’s size” meanwhile we have a thin, large pack reliant animal that would get its bones shattered by a pachy

[barren zephyr]

This is true.

[tawny juniper]

I see

Would be interesting if deino got a slight damage buff when in water

[barren zephyr]

Give it time, it may come.

[frank quest]

Therefore the design isn’t feasable and does not make sense, because guess what other animal does what the Utah design we have now does but better, troodon- the large pack reliant thin nimble animal that teams on larger herbs but with much more efficiency than current Utah

[tawny juniper]

What's happening

[barren zephyr]

Yea, it would be noice to see some buff on utah.

[tawny juniper]

Utah is pretty good tbh

I think it's fine where it is

It isn't meant to be a solitary animal

In packs it's excellent

and even on it's own it can make a living

[barren zephyr]

True, but I think his point is that Troodon is already very simialr to that.

[frank quest]

I’m not saying it’s unbalanced, I’m talking about its design and how that fits into its intended niche, Utah is fine yeah but the playstyle it has is not what it’s intended niche is, because troodon already has said niche

[tawny juniper]

What's its intended niche?

Troodon will probably be faster, Nimbler, Rely more on pack advantage, and focus much more on scavenging than utah

[barren zephyr]

Although Troodon may be changed to fit a slightly different niche, especially since it will be venomous.

[frank quest]

Utah is a “bulky dromaeosaur that lived solo or in family groups with up to 4-6 members, nimble enough to team on medium herbs but strong enough to tustle with pachy and other herbs it’s size” meanwhile we have a thin, large pack reliant animal that would get its bones shattered by a pachy

[tawny juniper]

Pachy can break an allo leg in a good ram

[frank quest]

[barren zephyr]

Ah in a ideal world it would be able to

but the game has to be balanced

[tawny juniper]

So it comes as no suprise pachy ram would kill a utah

[barren zephyr]

Pachys fractures should only be a big deal to things carno size and under, things heavier then that should only be dealt low fractures

because the pachy can just run away

[tawny juniper]

If utah gets the sneak on a pachy though it's pretty screwed, A pounce would not be good for it

[barren zephyr]

how?

Pounce got a damage nerf

[frank quest]

In a world where things make sense an allo bone is way to thick for a pachy to break it- esp since pachy isn’t adapted for an animal like allo at all

[barren zephyr]

unless you're suggesting that pachy has like 120 HP

[tawny juniper]

I wasn't aware there was a nerd

nerf

[swift dew]

yeah, doubt thats how its going to work, they don't want things getting oneshot to something in its own weight class

[tawny juniper]

Fair enough

brb

[frank quest]

Not to mention pachy is to Utah how trike is to rex, dangerous prey but a viable option

[barren zephyr]

nope

[swift dew]

utah pounce is does alot of bleed now instead of alot of raw damage

[barren zephyr]

trike shouldnt be a viable prey to rex

[dry osprey]

I dont think its that dangerous

[barren zephyr]

Ight this twas an interesting conversation but Imma head out now.

[frank quest]

Pachy is only adapted to fighting back against dromaosaurs and not anything larger

[barren zephyr]

9 inch thick bone skull that can crush utahs twig ribcage

Pachy should 3 shot utah with a headshot

[frank quest]

It’s an analogy, not a completely accurate comparison

[dry osprey]

Two utahs pouncing it could probably kill it

[barren zephyr]

How much damage does pounce deal?

[dry osprey]

Even with the nerf, its in the same weight class

[swift dew]

two hits with a headshot charge

[frank quest]

Agreed, but a large muscular raptor digging its claws into your spine should also kill

[dry osprey]

^

[barren zephyr]

I wish it was two but utah mains got mad about that before

[barren zephyr]

How much HP does pachy have? Like 100?

[swift dew]

utah will tackle it and you can't have two things pounce something at the same time if tackled

[barren zephyr]

Does pounce even take down a fully grown dyro?

[icy lion]

we wont know till its in game

[frank quest]

Utah is supposed to have a 50/50 one on one with pachy just as in Dakota vs pachy

[dry osprey]

It should be back to 2- I dont mean at the same time. And yes it does

[barren zephyr]

Nah

60/40

[frank quest]

Yet Utah in game is this scrawny loser

So kinda sucks

[lethal silo]

i think so if you pounce with full stam

[frank quest]

Now legacy Utah makes more sense

[dry osprey]

Utah and patchy should be a decent matchup. Im pretty sure patchy is slightly slower than utah, so it should only have to 2 shot a utah. First hit should do some fracture damage to discourage

[swift dew]

high risk high reward, a good utah is something to fear but a bad one isn't

[barren zephyr]

Makes no sense that utah should have a 50/50 with pachy while also being faster and able to disengage whenever it wants

[lethal silo]

i think 1v1 utah pachy is in pachies favor

[swift dew]

it cant disengage with a fractured leg, pachy v utah would be a good 50/50

[lethal silo]

2v1 utah pachy probs more 50/50

[dry osprey]

But Patchy is also small, and utah has that weight class and bleed. So 50/50 is better

[lethal silo]

since even if pachy fractures one the other can fuck em up

[barren zephyr]

Both are the same weight but pachy is more dense

It's a lot more bulky then utah

[dry osprey]

Patchy hits the utah once and it cant disengage

[swift dew]

unofficial, but its still a good source (wrong tag, this is for @dry osprey)

[lethal silo]

the big thing is one fracturing hit from a pachy puts utah completely out of the fight

[manic flint]

I hope that pachy v Utah is about 60/40 packys favour

[swift dew]

oops, wrong tag

[frank quest]

Well yeah but again, It’s whoever hits first- if Utah tackles pachy, pachy dies, If pachy hits utah Utah stuns and then dies

[dry osprey]

The headbutt should also do more damage with momentum

[barren zephyr]

I dont want pachys normal attack to deal much fracture damage

[lethal silo]

looking at taps concept it seems like pachy could buck off a singular utah

[barren zephyr]

That would be kinda unfun for everyone

[dry osprey]

Its going to need to if it wants to escape its predators

[barren zephyr]

How?

[dry osprey]

At least the fast ones

[frank quest]

By that time pachy is already bleeding and can then just be bit like, 2 more times and then dies

[lethal silo]

a base attack that slowly stacks fracturing damage and a charge attack that you have to rev up that deals a lot more fracture damage (???)

[dry osprey]

Of course, patchies should be able to struggle and viably get out of a pounce .

[tawny juniper]

Back

[dry osprey]

^Charge attack to the head or ribcage should outright merk the utah, or bring it close

[tawny juniper]

Agreed

[dry osprey]

I think thats fair because utah can jump over patchy

[lethal silo]

remember pounce does bleed damage, it doesnt really work that way lmao

[manic flint]

I feel 2 bites plus full pounce should kill a pachy, maybe 3 bites

[tawny juniper]

how

[frank quest]

If a pachy hit doesn’t kill a Utah the next guaranteed hit from stun will lmao

[dry osprey]

Yep

[barren zephyr]

[tawny juniper]

Pachy should honestly have negative damage on head

[frank quest]

Yeah that’s why- it bleeds the pachy out..

[tawny juniper]

Except from things larger then carno

[manic flint]

Actually that's dumb nevermind

[lethal silo]

bleeding out takes a long time and a lot of patience

[dry osprey]

Patchy should also have a frontal verson of the teno kick. A utah pounces from the front and gets punished

[frank quest]

Smaller you are the faster you bleed out, the less stam you have the faster you bleed, the more you move the faster you bleed- if you don’t wallow or sit down you will die eventually

[lethal silo]

yes

but adding a little bleed and then biting twice is not going to kill it 😂

[swift dew]

i feel that tackle pounces should do raw damage, it makes no sense why you would try and make something bleed out if you already have it pinned, but for balance reasons I can see why not

[dry osprey]

A full pounce on a same sized animal means the animal isn’t struggling, and should rack up more bleed damage than just a little

[tawny juniper]

I think it should do a decent amount of damage upon landing the pounce and bleed from that point

[frank quest]

So going by that the Utah finishes the pounce, which does a good amount of bleed dmg, pachy is small- will chase Utah and likely not get it, and will have moved and be low on stam- boom that’s 1:30 in combat and your already almost out of blood