general-feedback-discussion

[lucid mauve]

I honestly think the devs more use it as new ideas, ive seen alot of stuff i disagree with. But the idea is still good

[tight iron]

have you done maps tho

[limber hull]

Yes. Not my expertise, but I know enough ABOUT level design to know Spiro fails on several levels

[tight iron]

i see

[limber hull]

Having a "dead perimiter" around the island is really bad. Gateway does it better by having a big ocean of unplayable space so you know to turn aroumd, but Spiro doesn't actually convey where the dead space is. Huge swaths of forest that exist to make you starve out and respawn, rather than giving you an ocean to tell you to turn back into the mainland. The barriers only appear when you're REALLY close, so they're still not great warning

[lucid mauve]

I personally hate the gateway map, i feel it tells me where to go. I cant go up or down, i need to follow the "path" But the map itself is very nice looking

[tight iron]

it's too closed imo, taht's why ppl say there's no food and there's no players

theres more than enough but you won't see them

[lucid mauve]

Yea could be true

[tight iron]

theres millions of deers and players but you ain't ever gonna find em

and boars ofc

[tight iron]

i completely agree with tihs

[lucid mauve]

Yea true, lets hope more players and more playables. Spread people out on the map, so everything feels more alive

[tight iron]

that part could've been shanked for better optimization

[tight iron]

just wish there were more plains around instead of random ass cliffs and everything being a mountain

cant traverse besides in very specific places or you fall off a cliff and die

[limber hull]

the dead space also just... absorbs all the AI because they all spawn in the deadzones and no one gets any lol

[tight iron]

yup

[lucid mauve]

Yepp, 100%

[tight iron]

when one of the most open places is highlands and sometimes you can't see a stego 10m in front of you, you know we got an issue

[limber hull]

Honestly, Gateway reduced the amount of cliff deaths because of its actually smart level design

The paths guiding you to the safest possible route is so good, genuinely incredible game design

[tight iron]

cant deny that

but at the same time, you trip everywhere and take damage

[minor field]

I mean except that one mountain at swamp that we dont speak of.

[tight iron]

half the damn map are jungles that you cant even move in

[minor field]

unless its finally been removed

[limber hull]

Spiro's were denser lol

[tight iron]

there werent rocks every 2 meters and trees with mega bugged hitboxes tho

also im not sure about the denser part, some jungles in gateway are so annoying

cant move thru them

just wish they completely revamped it

places like highlands are amazing but for example this place... man

(all these forests)

you aint gonna find anyone ova there not even juvies (they spawn there a lot so that's just ass)

[lucid mauve]

Redwood : P

[tight iron]

WTF

the tree 😭

[lucid mauve]

lol yea

[wintry whale]

@kind gull You can report map defects using https://discord.com/channels/401464048610312193/783214088456896513 as well

[wooden agate]

#general-feedback message @rapid viper they already can

[rapid viper]

ik ik

[wooden agate]

#general-feedback message @quartz meteor it has one lake

one fairly large lake, but still

[wintry whale]

@quartz meteor

https://tenor.com/view/rex-dangervest-youre-too-late-too-late-the-lego-movie2-tlm2-gif-26448568

[limber hull]

but it has lilipads and green on the top, therefore, swamp

ignore the fact that it's stagnant-ass water

[wintry whale]

Parasites sound both fun and horrid, I look forward to them

[valid delta]

Lake vs swamp is not determined by the amount of lillypads. Some lakes have lots of small plants, and some swamps have very few.

[limber hull]

personally i stand by as the world's biggest jungle supporter

east plains is now no longer my least favourite place in the game

because it's not east plains

[valid delta]

It is a good area to have updated.

[wooden agate]

west access next!!!

or NW ridge

[valid delta]

NW needs a lot of help! It's very cool looking from the air, but it needs a reason to be there for all players.

The far SE as well.

[wooden agate]

the jungle behind mudflats and that sanc could use some QoL too but its relatively normal

just needs to be more... interesting i guess

[quartz meteor]

lol

Let’s just turn everything into a swamp why not. Next highlands please!!! I never understood why it’s dry up there anyways when it gets so much rain. #SwampUpHighlands!!!

[wintry whale]

I feel like the largest issue with that statement is the glaring lack of swamp at east plains

[valid delta]

Lol

[quartz meteor]

I mean screw it. Let’s just get rid of land completely.

No one needs or uses it anyways

Everyone will be an aquatic dinosaur

[valid delta]

What is the simple definition of swamp?

A swamp is an area of land permanently saturated, or filled, with water. Many swamps are even covered by water. There are two main types of swamps: freshwater swamps and saltwater swamps.

[quartz meteor]

You get a swamp! You get a swamp! You get a swamp!!! Everyone gets a swamp!!!

[limber hull]

it isnt even a swamp

[quartz meteor]

Yay!

[limber hull]

the funniest part of this whole thing is it ain't even a swamp at all

it's a pond that's slightly larger than a regular pond in a jungle biome

[valid delta]

Maybe there should be no water there at all. Wouldn't that be fun??

[quartz meteor]

Okay but per game standards on what a swamp is and looks like. It is in fact a swamp. Even the plants and trees are from the swamps.

[limber hull]

the plants and trees are from the jungle lol

it's not got the same plants at all

the only similarity is the mossy top of the water

[quartz meteor]

🤫

It’s a swamp Jr

[limber hull]

it's literally not a swamp

[valid delta]

This is way too much feels over a lake change.

[limber hull]

tons of ponds have the mossy top and are found in jungles

[quartz meteor]

I agree. But we did not need it in East.

It was fine as it was.

[valid delta]

In your opinion.

[limber hull]

nah, east sucked ass as a locale

[quartz meteor]

No no no. That wasn’t an opinion. It was a fact.

[limber hull]

north-east was the vastly superior plains and they were right next to each other

[limber hull]

a fact in your opinion

[quartz meteor]

Nope

[valid delta]

Your opinions are not facts.

[quartz meteor]

Well hopefully deinos can spawn there

Then I’d be happy

[limber hull]

why? it'd be a really bad spawn for them lol

[quartz meteor]

Not really

[limber hull]

they can't go anywhere and it's super cramped for them

[quartz meteor]

It’s a pretty big pond now

[valid delta]

Lol

[quartz meteor]

Okay and NE is better…

😒

[valid delta]

Ok, I'm leaving. Lol

[quartz meteor]

lol

[limber hull]

NE is better because there's actually a river leading out of it and not a massive jungle lol

there's basically no water source you can go to from that pond as a deino

[quartz meteor]

Is that what you call it

The ocean?

[limber hull]

without the salt water mut, you'll die, and you can't get that in time if you spawned in the east pond

spawning in east pond would basically be a very slow and drawn out death for a deino

[steep swallow]

@rotund lake idk about herbivores but for carnivores Cera often outnumbers other carnos by like a 5:1 ratio

[rotund lake]

Yeah you only hear cera charge bite mostly time, im tired of this because you dont engage just because you dont wanna loose nutrients and food, not even because you re afraid to fie

[wintry whale]

@valid oracle I dislike classes and clans, but I do like the idea of missions, potentially from the PDA tablets we’ve already seen

[valid delta]

Why are people so obsessed with galli dealing bleed? You're not supposed to be fighting to the death, you're meant to be the escape artist. Galli should die to a raptor if it tries to fight one with any skill.

[urban flax]

And bleed is exactly the greatest tool for preventing enemies from chasing you instead of having to fight to the death

[valid delta]

So is being the fastest animal in the game from birth. What more do you need??

[urban flax]

I mean bleed just makes sense
Even if it was just a tiny amount of it

[valid delta]

Because it also means you can cause bleed and then chase them until they die. That makes galli a predator doesn't it?

[urban flax]

That makes it as much a predator as any other animal in the game that causes bleed
Which is every animal except ptera, hypsi, pachy and dryo

[valid delta]

Yeah, but every other animal can be gotten away from through the ability to jump or by being faster. Galli can chase and follow anything and kill it. That's really not its role in the ecosystem.

[urban flax]

Nope, but removing bleed from it doesn't prevent any of that
Galli is still as strong as before, but now it just makes less sense

[vital apex]

how are mixpackers not getting admin banned?

destroying official servers

absolute degenerates

[agile fable]

because there is no rule about mixpacking? or any rule for that matter. there are unofficial servers that have a no mixpacking rule if those would interest you

[valid delta]

Not all mix packs are roaming murder groups. Quite a few are more like defensive hangouts with chill people. I've spent time in quite a few herbivore packs that didn't kill anyone that didn't try to kill us. It is more dangerous when it's a large group of predators, but there is no way reliable way to prevent groups working together that wouldn't have exploitable downsides.

[vital apex]

well there should be when half the population NA 3 is in a mixpack

[vital apex]

kinda ruins the whole point of the game either way, realism aside

more of a community issue than a developmental one

[valid delta]

I'm not saying it can't be frustrating, just that there isn't a real way to stop it. :/

[agile fable]

I dunno i dont think there should be a stop to it in the first place. not everyone wants to play the same dino and friends still want to play together, why punish them for it?

they bought the game and will play it how they want to, who are we to tell them theyre wrong

[valid delta]

And in practice, it does have some basis in the real world too, so it's not like they are breaking a natural law. It's just kind of a consequence of having human intelligence behind the dinos.

[vital apex]

you would never in the real world see a herd of herbivores mingling with a mix of carnivores, herbivores of the same species hardly tolerate eachother

[vital apex]

no point arguing this, but I was wondering where everyone was until my frames suddenly dropped to 5 and I see, I kid you not, ~30 all walking in a group

no ones gunna mess with that defensive group!

[agile fable]

then go to a unofficial server with rules, yeah that sucks but theyre having fun in their own way

or dont i aint the boss of you lol

[vital apex]

just uninstalling again and going on a rant, its like it gets worse every time I play, I keep thinking i'll get the old spiro hit, its insanity thinking so though

[agile fable]

to each their own, i know theres some 220 player EU server with rules you would like i think if you ever wanted to try and get that experience youre talking about. but i dont think there will ever be a system in place that outright stops mixpacking, but who knows

[valid delta]

Hahaha I can understand the frustration, but the image of that makes me laugh I can't lie. Lol Just a sea of dinos of all kinds coming over a hill would be hilarious!

[limber hull]

pretty sure dryo can bleed with its kicks LMAO

[steep swallow]

🤓 actually Galli can’t chase a Herrerasaurus up a tree 🤓

[valid oracle]

i thought that clans would be pre established as just 2 or 3 different ones that the developers created in officials, this would change in community servers where they can have customizable ones or the pre established factions

[limber hull]

having a scout or sniper class implies that gen 2 would spawn with weapons, which we know they wont

[valid oracle]

clases could work as specializations where they are biased towards a specific weapon type, such as snipers being more skillful towards long scoped rifles and scouts being specialized towards exploration and endurance, whenever both adquiere their signature weapons

[wintry whale]

Free for all, learn as you go

[valid oracle]

and you would probably be able to switch classes at some point if you meet the requirements

[limber hull]

i feel like forcing players to have to specialise in a weapon, rather than simply having their specialty be whatever weapon they find (weapons will be EXCEPTIONALLY rare, as will their ammo, and you have to maintain them) would just make it extremely difficult to even utilise your specialty

also, gen 2 aren't really mercenaries anymore, so that wouldn't fit as well

[valid oracle]

specialties would boost your signature weapon or playstyle (such as scout endurance/stamina) and boost your chances to find resources of that weapon like ammo, and example if medics are a thing they would find health items with increased chances when looting

[limber hull]

that seems really overpowered and very much encourages a KOS rambo gundown playstyle

[wintry whale]

How do you boost a point and shoot weapon?

[valid oracle]

it’s true that gen 2s are modified perfect humans by AE so this will play a role in their stats and physical capabilities

[valid oracle]

damage, accuracy

recoil

perhaps even enhaced scopes with laser pointers

[limber hull]

im not a fan of encouraging a hyper-aggressive playstyle with far better/stronger weaponry with more ammo

just going to make humans insufferable and using weapons to just hunt rather than defend themselves

[wintry whale]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-puke-puke-vomit-kitty-vomit-cat-vomit-gif-10902081098279086080

[limber hull]

especially a sniper class

[valid oracle]

would you make the gun shoot rainbows or what’s your idea

[limber hull]

the best way to do it is just not add classes

[valid oracle]

tbh resources would still be very rare, you’d be lucky to overall have 2 extra mags

[limber hull]

classes make humans harder to balance and harder to counterplay

and have no real logical reason to even be there

[valid oracle]

and humans still have to hunt and eat dinosaurs so what’s your point here

[limber hull]

the emphasis should be on surviving over gunpla

[lilac bolt]

^

[limber hull]

they can't. humans can't eat dinos as confirmed by devs

they'll be eating rations, plants or the modern AI animals

[wintry whale]

Have everyone be on an even playingfield, no classes

[lilac bolt]

^

[valid oracle]

of course wouldn’t be a rambo massacre killing everything on sight but rather a helping hand in survivalism snd exploration

[valid oracle]

ah didn’t know this, thought gen 2s would be genetically modified enough to withstand eating dinosaur meat - not gonna eat a megalania but still

[limber hull]

i dont think being a sniper class will be a helping hand in survival at all

you can't defend yourself well if the dinos get close, your weapon is loud as hell and announces your presence, you'd be better off using it to take potshots for fun

(which is why i hate the sniper as a weapon in this game)

[valid oracle]

well tbh a sniper is a sniper, you are good at camouflage and medium-far distance hunting and equipped with stuff like binoculars but they come short in close quarters

[lilac bolt]

Hopefully they are extremely rare and limited considering how strong most modern rifles are

[limber hull]

i wish they were so rare that they weren't in the game lol

[valid oracle]

you might just be negative towards that playstyle, let’s take in consideration another class like a rambo with stuff like semi automatic rifles

[limber hull]

coming short in close quarters is why i hate them so much. the only time they aren't useful is when you, as a human, should logically need a gun most, for self defence, and they're useful when you're trying to instantly kill someone who spent 3 hours growing something from a distance while hidden in a bush

[limber hull]

im negative towards that playstyle because it actively harms the rest of the game by existing lol

[lilac bolt]

shooting someone from a mile away is not gonna be fun for dino players.

[limber hull]

semi auto rifles are fine. shoot em around and you'll be loud enough to attract the attention of something you can't deal with, and they won't be one-tapping anything from a mile away

[valid oracle]

rambos would work like a very combat oriented class, equipped with lethal weapons like the semi auto rifle and good agility such as fast dodges along with decent stealth, but they come in short when looting and exploring dark and secluded places such as a run down facility

[limber hull]

you actually want a rambo class?

god no

[valid oracle]

they could also have grenades and other pocket resources such as a large knife with big physical strength

[limber hull]

literally just encouraging KOS shoot everything that moves don't use stealth

[limber hull]

this ain't primal carnage my guy

[lilac bolt]

idk I feel like classes are too much for how much Gen 2 is gonna be. I don't see a need for them

[valid oracle]

if you empty your whole mag in 20 seconds shooting bushes and missing everything paired with poor looting capabilities you’re in for a bad one

atleast that’s how i’d balance out their above average firepower, you’d compare another class like scout when exploring and rambo would be diminishable

[limber hull]

guns are meant to be a last resort you know that right

the way they'll be balanced is them being the last option you'd ever want to use

making a rambo class literally makes them the first thing you'd want to use

not to mention, GRENADES

why would you EVER need a grenade?

i dont even think they're adding grenades (thank god)

[lilac bolt]

strains. the only thing I can think of tbh

[limber hull]

would absolutely just walk off a grenade lol

hypers would not care at all

[lilac bolt]

yeah true those things are built like tanks lol

[valid delta]

https://tenor.com/view/malinda-yourenotwrong-notwrong-wrong-right-gif-19187634

[valid oracle]

alr came back after a bit of thinking and i though of this
First of all, we already mentioned that this wouldn’t be a crazy primal carnage massacre but rather a much more survival oriented ecosystem, as if it was a DayZ or project zomboid with dinosaurs, whereas each one of the gen 2s server a distinct purpose in their ways of exploration and combat.

• Rambo would be a combat capable class. Spawning in with a 1 mag loaded pistol and a belt equipped with a huge knife to enhance hand to claw combat. Their signature weapon would be a semi automatic rifle, and rambo has increased reload along with very slight weapon damage increase, and less recoil.
  This class would have great endurance and dodging capabilities along with physical strength, but they come in short in terms of max speed and exploration, where they would have poor looting capabilities to compensate their huge firepower. Where a scout would find a pristine cartridge, a rambo would find a rusty flashlight in some occasions. If you were to poorly manage your resources and empty your whole mag shooting bushes, you’d be dead meat in presence of an agile carnivore theropod.

• Scouts would play much different, being much more resourceful mid-late game, equipped with bags and belts to holster various handy resources to enhance their exploration capabilities and great looting.
  In terms of speed, they’d be decently agile and their max speed would be higher than rambo but with slightly less endurance.
  For combat they use a more resourceful approach, utilizing lures, flash and smoke grenades to easily escape or handle conflicts. Most weapons will do for scout, but they wouldn’t specialize in any of them, giving no stat increases across the board.

[limber hull]

Rambo:

• Why do we NEED a "combat capable class"? Isn't every human who holds a gun "combat capable"? Isn't that the point of guns?
• Spawning with a gun is a no-go. The devs have made it adamantly clear how you will NEED to find a gun, and your primary ideals would be stealth
• Nerfing max speed on humans, who are already slower than stegosaurus, would probably not be great.
• What is "poor looting capabilities"? Can you just... Not see the sniper rifle in the corner of the room?

Scout:

• What is "late game" in terms of a continuous survival experience
• Why do scouts use a more resourceful approach? Shouldn't ALL humans have a resourceful approach, given that guns are super rare and you aren't guaranteed to have one, or the ammo for one, at any given time.

Overall, it feels like you've snapped the overall gen 2 experience into two halves, rather than leaving it as a larger whole

[valid oracle]

i’ll read that in a sec but those are just the 2 classes i thought of right now lol there would be a lot more

[limber hull]

And then you make it even worse

You make a ton of little fragments of human

Rather than one homogenous whole

Rather than "classes" and roles being determined by in-game behaviours and decisions, you mechanically force them into a playstyle while removing options other classes have to balance them

Rather balancing humans as a whole around the concept of being defined by individual equipment and experience

Not to mention the quick-forming metas that would arise from such a class system

[valid oracle]

Rambo:

1. Specialized in combat means that you have a better eye at combat, as in rambo having a good dodge consuming little stamina along with physical strength with a large knife and increased gimmick weapon stats such as accuracy and reduced recoil.
2. True, i though that a pistol with a single mag would be tame but it’s better to leave it off for the knife and other less lethal weapons.
3. I never mentioned nerfing speed, just that some classes would be faster than others. Either way, long distance traveling would be in vehicles
4. Looting would be based off opening locked crates and niche stuff like drawers (some drawers have keypads, once you unlock them a resource would spawn and the rarity would roll based on the class)

Scout:

1. Late game would be considered an advanced state of gameplay after several hours of exploration and looting, scout would holster many resources to aid combat and further upgrade survivability.
2. I meant it as scout has more bag and belt space for small resources like health or food items.

[valid oracle]

All classes are still human, each and every one of the would have a significant strength and weakness to reduce metagame. Overall, stat increases would be small to prevent each mercenaries to be broken in one aspect and lackluster in the other but enough to make it so each class is a fresh new experience.

[limber hull]

Having a strength and weakness helps solidify metagame, not reduce it

[valid oracle]

Although i did consider that every class/specialization could use every weapon in the game, just that a scout would be very clunky with a sniper rifle when compared to an actual sniper as an example

Like imagine a rambo with a bow and arrow.

[limber hull]

bow and arrow probably wont be usable for gen 2

that's more of a gen 1/tribal thing

[wintry whale]

Are we still having the classes conversation?

[limber hull]

yes

[wintry whale]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/isle/images/1/1c/Old_Human_Concept_Art_The_Isle.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1200?cb=20161027070420
Classes aren’t planned since long ago, and I wouldn’t get my hopes up

[valid oracle]

exactly, ah now i kinda wanna talk about tribals

[wintry whale]

I hope they end up getting tools

[valid oracle]

I did a bit of emphasis on these old concepts, was just looking at this earlier today to write about this topic

[wintry whale]

Scavenge what you can from the environment, I dislike classes, let gen 2 be an even playing field, skill based gameplay

And luck

[limber hull]

yea

classes should be made via your own tools and gameplay

humans cant really afford to "specialise" into one playstyle

because stealth, gunplay, looting and such are all vital to their survival

losing out on one is losing out on a huge part of their surviability

[wintry whale]

If you have a group, sure, designate roles, but I don't think the game should be the one deciding it

[limber hull]

agreed

[valid oracle]

meh

if humans get dull that’ll be on you guys

[limber hull]

how is that dull?

[turbid dragon]

hellooo

[wintry whale]

Limiting a character to only being good at one part of it's gameplay when they should start on an even playing field is arguably worse

[limber hull]

freedom of expression through gameplay vs forced roles

[wintry whale]

Howdy

[valid oracle]

gameplay probably will get repetitive although i do hope that it’s good enough to have some variety and not just find this op weapon that anyone can use and win simulator

[limber hull]

well weapons aren't the only thing to find and use

[valid oracle]

anyway i’m prob done here for now, left a few ideas up in the convo if anyone else is interested in human talk

[wintry whale]

PvP isn't the only thing in the survival game

[turbid dragon]

hi ^^ i just got the game, just started, getting EXTREMELY frustrated and cant find YT videos or details on the wiki to answer some gameplay questions. Were is the most appropriate place to do that?

[wintry whale]

https://discord.com/channels/401464048610312193/855527844670865438

[turbid dragon]

thanks!

[valid delta]

You can have that though. In the unofficial servers with open chat you get a lot of groups of people just hanging out together as different critters.

[latent olive]

im slowly starting to suspect they might not get tools

although, depending on if we get subclasses for them or not, maybe they will

[wintry whale]

I think it’s a coin flip

[empty epoch]

@maiden anvil rather than that
have it paired next to bleed

[latent olive]

potentially

as it seems from dondi's quotes, these particular gen 1s are just attack dogs, basically

i just had the stray thought that the gen 1 is like a budget eyeless in gameplay

[empty epoch]

Don confirmed they can build, to what extent? Who knows

but i believe tools are possible

[limber hull]

probably lil shrines made of skulls and whatnot

also cages iirc

[latent olive]

subclasses ahoy though

god i love some kind of architect gen 1 that can build just randomass stuff

[empty epoch]

likely no on the cages
only thing on that rn is temporarily being able to abduct people

[latent olive]

give us some kind of crafting system that allows you to just

put things together

do they work? do they not work? who knows, try hitting that juvenile rex with the stick side of a hammer and see what happens

putting a bunch of sticks in the shape of a cross and then throwing it at something

does it do damage? yes?

alright make another

though i wouldnt be surprised this just results in meta gaming the crafting system

[urban flax]

pyramids

[latent olive]

bass pro shop

[urban flax]

McDonalds

[latent olive]

fish

[tepid gale]

how come

[latent olive]

🐟

but yes, i would love the ability to make wooden structures and whatnot as a gen 1

let me build them whereever i want

[maiden anvil]

What do you mean?

[empty epoch]

like how the bleed icon shows

[maiden anvil]

Hmm… that’s just a design choice. What do you think of the overall idea?

[near oxide]

i posted a comment in general feedback saying this, The saltwater mechanic for deinosaurus adding turtles, crabs, or maybe Psittacosaurus since they are on beaches to your diet would be awesome. Would allow us to actually live in saltwater - im just curious why anyone would be against it - thoughts?

[inland vigil]

Cerato is not a "top predator" 😭 it's a scavenger and body bully. It's not correctly filling its niche

@torn lagoon

[pale hazel]

allosaurus will balanced cerato don't worry

[tight iron]

@summer idol you dying to 2 raptors as a teno is unusual

teno absolutely shreds raptors

[summer idol]

what should I say, i mean i hit them 6-7 times but they dont want to die °°

[tight iron]

you kicked them?

[summer idol]

they moved from the front wasn´t that dump to try from behind

and stam was not the best after some minutes

[tight iron]

to kill raptors you gotta knock em down and kick them once

they're super squishy, just either tail slam them or kick them (better to kick instead of tail slam) and kick em again (kick them in the face if you tail slam them)

[summer idol]

ok thx I try ig...

next time

[tight iron]

alr

[steep swallow]

For real lol, no one is comparing a lion to a deer lol

[latent olive]

introducing a bigger predator to kill another predator doesn’t work

@torn lagoon the ceratosaurus isn’t intended to be a “top predator”

it’s intended by the developers to be a scavenging dumpster goblin that steals corpses and bullies nerds while eating literally anything that litters the ground

[opaque inlet]

@TGamer

I know those examples are kinda annoying. Dilo and Diablo both have uniquely weak bleed resist so they may be bad examples. Dilo because it's faster than Raptor, if a solo dilo wants to flee a pack of raptors he can, while a solo raptor cannot flee a pack of dilos. Bleed will bleed faster if you are running, so the solo raptor's only hope to life if he can't find something to climb on is to apply some bleed and then run and hope the bleed makes them give up the chase.

The teno, teno is very skill based. You get one tail slam on them, then couple that with some kicks and they should be dead or near dead. And if they aren't? Good news, Teno's claws and kick are very bleed-applying and raptor does not have good bleed resist. In the teno situation, it's a matter of learning to hit them first.

Diablo is in a similar situation, stuns on a running hit and should be able to 2 or 3 shot a raptor, in addition to applying pretty heavy bleed. Raptors may cause bleed but I think they are intended to be little glass cannons.

The bleed damage is painful but I guess my point is, the good news is that it's painful for those raptors too.

[torn lagoon]

yeah not INTENDED to be a top predator but at this stage in the game it is, whats the top predator then? answer that question lol

then what they un-nerf the cera when a trex is added in game? lmao

i would put money down on the same people complaining about the cera being to strong will complain when the cera isnt strong enough anymore

its really just a skill issue i am sorry to say, people good at the game wont complain about this problem. but then people that need help ruin the realism i literally just survived 3 grumpy cera as a sub cera and danced around them and then died to a carno lol

its the way of nature and life and death. you live and you learn get gud

[north quiver]

well if cera is going to stay top predator, we might as well balance it as such

reduce its group numbers, reduce its smell capabilities, remove its ability to eat rot, and basically remove everything that makes it a great scavenger

can’t have the best of every world as a top predator

[torn lagoon]

ugghhh.. thhats the point the cera being to sttrong IS THE BALANCE

[north quiver]

there are too many growing to adult way too easily anyways. top predators shouldn’t be so easily numerous

[torn lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/wow-gif-20411229

i think the devs that made vanilla have had a lot to learn and i guarantee you the accuracy in evrima is much more defined.. please dont make the game less realistic so the game is easier for you.. nature is tough you justt gotta learn to be tougher

and yes they ow fast because when bigger dinosthan cera are added those shoul ta the longest

[urban flax]

Balance > Realism

[torn lagoon]

yes and balance reuires an animal that called a top predator

[urban flax]

Also a species being both the strongest, the biggest AND the most numerous in any given ecosystem is the opposite of realism

[urban flax]

Top predators have to be balanced too
Otherwise you have no game

[torn lagoon]

its not meant to simulate a game its meant to simulate an ecosystem

[desert arch]

Deino:

[torn lagoon]

thank you kind sir

[urban flax]

And if there is a "top" predator" that is OP it is failing at both

[torn lagoon]

what do you call a tiger?

its an op animal

guess what?

killed off by an over populating OP animal called 'humans'

[urban flax]

There is no such thing as OP in real life

[torn lagoon]

im sorry but if you got all the explainations explain why i havee no trouble with cerra?

[torn lagoon]

lol

seems youve changed your oppinion in a few moments

[urban flax]

I have all the explanations as to how a game works
However I can only read minds in a range of 40 meters so I have no idea what's happening in yours to come to such conclusions

[urban flax]

I haven't ?

Balance is more important than realism

OP doesn't exist in real life
These two statements aren't mutually exclusive

[torn lagoon]

bruh

thats humans in realism

[urban flax]

In fact, they go pretty much in the same direction
Because then if you make something OP in a game, the game becomes less realistic

[torn lagoon]

hahah maybe just the fact that you think you can read minds within 40 meters is a red flag xD

explains a lot

huimans are op in real life

tigers are op in real life

hence accurate realisim

[urban flax]

How so ?

[torn lagoon]

bruh

[urban flax]

Humans aren't even OP, we just got a headstart because technology advances faster than evolution

[torn lagoon]

ill have you know buddy that i am a biologist irl and is a big reason why i love the isle xD

just so you know

[summer idol]

youre right, and on teno im not very skilled on it I have to say:P

[urban flax]

Happy to know it
However, you can be a good biologist but a bad game designer
In fact, I don't expect any biologist to be a good game designer, unless they're a game designer biologist

[torn lagoon]

even the planet crumbles at humans existence, humans are OP or what the F does op even mean at that point

what grade are you in kid?

you need to do more homework

actually i love messing around with python

and C++

[urban flax]

This is false, but this is not the place nor time to talk about this
This doesn't have anything to do with the game anymore anyway

[urban flax]

Ok but do you understand what game design is ?

[torn lagoon]

yes it does because you said OP doesnt exist IRL i was explaining what irl is

lol

who is this guy he has no clue what hes going on about

it was fun teaching you some stuff but i gotta go back to real life where humans over poweringly dominate the entire planet

[urban flax]

Over-powered implies something has power that should not be allowed within the rules it is supposed to abide to
There are no rules irl
Therefore, OP doesn't exist irl

[torn lagoon]

yeah you just defined humans

small brittle creatures that have to much power from technology

im just gunna counter everything you say because i have lived a long time and had the time to learn

so its pointless to have this conversation if youre not willing to accept that maybe theres someone that knows more

[urban flax]

Ok then, what's the correlation between humans having technology and in-game cera being over-powered for the good of the game it belongs to ?

[torn lagoon]

the corrilation is life isnt fair to every creature

some have it better

difference is they cant complain about it on discord

the isle is a game about life

[urban flax]

I didn't disregard the possibility of you knowing more than me
In fact, I am still ready to accept that, as soon as you can give me something to believe that you, in fact, know what you are talking about

[torn lagoon]

i have many times

[urban flax]

The Isle is a game
An unbalanced game is a bad game
It's not much more complex than that

[torn lagoon]

made very obvious points to you that cant even be argued and you changed your thinking back and forth about if OP is real or not

no an unbalanced game is simular to the life it portrays

[urban flax]

I mean, you can have unbalanced games I guess... As long as it's single-player or exclusively co-op games (and even then, it still arguably makes the game less enjoyable)
But the Isle is none of those, it's a PvP game

[torn lagoon]

the world was brutal and unbalanced for many creatures and still is

[urban flax]

I have the feeling I have been pretty constant in my opinions, if you noticed any incohernece about what I said I would like you to point it out to me

[torn lagoon]

it always will be so making a game based on that must be unbalanced

[desert arch]

An unbalanced game is unfun though unless youre playing the exact thing that makes it unbalanced. And an unbalanced game is just objectively unfun, thus no one will bother to play it.

[torn lagoon]

i did..

the game isnt meant to be an FPS shooter its supposed to be an immersive experience

its not supposed to be fun and kill everything you can and have the most kills or be the best player. otherwise whats the point of my favorite dino the beim?

[urban flax]

Well
That would be
If the game was based on real life
Which it isn't, since it's a sci-fi game which conveniently disregards some of the laws of biology (as a biologist you probably already know that though) and even physics in order to make their own universe in which they can set up their own rules

[torn lagoon]

if oyu arent playing for immersion and you play a beim you will get bored because theres not enough killing for you

like literally explain the point of a beim in game

[urban flax]

I didn't mention FPS, but now that you mention it, you remind me that it IS meant to be a FPS shooter
For the upcoming humans that is

[torn lagoon]

cant kill anything

so whats the point?

the point is to play a prey creature

and to cera most creature are prey creatures

so yeah please if boring immersive realism isnt the point then why have the option to play such weak creatures?

sadism or something?

just delete them from the game because they cant kill anything

its not fun right?

[urban flax]

If prey creatures have no chance at survival then it's not a survival game anymore, it's not even actually a game
And people just have to play cera if they want to have any fun because everything else dies to it, it's not even a matter of combat
It's a matter of being able to survive

[midnight heath]

@torn lagoon #general-feedback message

Cera isn't supposed to be a "top predator" it's a nomad scavenger coprse bully, it's overtuned.

[torn lagoon]

bruh they do have a chance of survival i am talking about no fun killing things right?

[urban flax]

I don't think I have ever used the ability to kill as a balance concern either, but if you want to talk about it, we can

[torn lagoon]

yes but in this environment until a larger predator is added it is the top land predator

[midnight heath]

They took what is basically the hyena of the Isle and made it an apex.

[torn lagoon]

thats how it would be irl too

[midnight heath]

Cera isn't large

[urban flax]

Doesn't warrant it breaking the game's rules

[torn lagoon]

the largest land dino in this state of the game

[urban flax]

If this game was based on irl dinos cera wouldn't even be there

[midnight heath]

It's not, carno and cera are in the same weight class and cera is overtuned as opposed to the small game hunter.

Cera's whole bile change was to prevent exactly what it caused

[torn lagoon]

its not based on time periods its simulating an environment where humans recreated dinos in a lab so yeah they can be there?

why am i even wasting my time, theres three of you and i keep shutting down what you are saying

yes and if you read earlier i died to a carno

[midnight heath]

Because your whole stand point is "lol big predator with teeth, must be strong, no nerfs needed"

[torn lagoon]

so why does the cera need to be nerfed

a conversation full of contradicting points made

[midnight heath]

Because it makes things twice it's size vomit in 2 bites

And can stun-lock via vomit for some species

[torn lagoon]

you guys just want to be right, thats why you contradict everything you say

guess we gotta nerf the carno too?

[midnight heath]

No, carno might need the opposite honestly.

[torn lagoon]

might as well nerf gallimimus just for fun

[urban flax]

Because it contradicts the balance of strength and survivability in the game by being able to take on things tht are much larger than itself and out of its hunting range
Not even mentioning the fact that cera is supposed to be mainly a scavenger and not a hunter

[urban flax]

That's literally what happened to it, but go on

[torn lagoon]

lol

wow you guys will never be pleased huh?

[midnight heath]

"Not even mentioning the fact that cera is supposed to be mainly a scavenger and not a hunter" sums it great

I thought cera was fine before the change, it was viable, strong, fair.

[urban flax]

Is it a sin to like games that are fun for everyone playing them ?

[torn lagoon]

i dont need to explain that fact until something like a trex (also a scavenger btw) is added

[midnight heath]

Where are you getting that our rex is going to be a scavenger?

[urban flax]

The addition of rex won't magically make cera balanced

[torn lagoon]

because if you took lions out of the saharra then yeah hyenas would be a top predator and not a scavenger

so take trex out of evrima

[midnight heath]

Please answer, where are you getting that our rex is going to be a scavenger?

At least back up the claim

[torn lagoon]

i didnt say it would balance it, i am saying it will take its place AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN

[desert arch]

Cera vomits it in 3 bites then it starves to death🔥

[torn lagoon]

you guys dont know what you are talking about no offense

[midnight heath]

And rex is likely going to keel over to trike or shant, those two will need nerfed too yeah? Because the carnivore protagonist just can't lose right?

[urban flax]

If you take every carnivore but vultures out of the savannah vultures will remain scavengers
Because they are adapted for doing so
It's weird that you take hyenas as an example, because as a biologist you probably know that hyenas are not MAINLY scavengers, they are quite proficient hunters, especially in packs

[torn lagoon]

it was a scavenger dumpster predator in real life just like a cera but also can maintain top of the food chain

[midnight heath]

Real life doesn't translate to Isle at all.

[torn lagoon]

just because its a scavenger doesnt mean it cant be top of the food chain

[midnight heath]

Your claims hold genuinely no water

[torn lagoon]

its meant to

[midnight heath]

No it's not

[torn lagoon]

they try too

lol

[midnight heath]

No they don't, Isle isn't realistic

[torn lagoon]

lmaoooo

https://tenor.com/view/hysterical-laughter-laughing-gif-25735842

[midnight heath]

"The Isle is a realistic game"

[urban flax]

I mean, as a biologist you should be the first one to notice and mention the numerous unrealistic parts and mechanics of the Isle

Most of which are intended (as opposed to one playable or another being busted)

[midnight heath]

Need not mention the JP clone in there too, that's also realistic.

[torn lagoon]

yes in a universe where gentic manipulation is possible

so hence strange creatures

[midnight heath]

That's fictional in itself and therefore not realistic

[torn lagoon]

please give me more stuff to smack out the air real quick its real fun wasting my time with you

fictional setting realistic environment whats next?

anything else you need some lessons in?

[urban flax]

Ok
Explain how can hypers walk without hsattering their bones under their own weight

[torn lagoon]

any other einstiens want to join in on this conversation?

[midnight heath]

I feel like it's just bait at this point, it's actually just absurd.

[urban flax]

Since rex's bodyplan can only support up to 14-15 tons before its skeleton wouldn't be able to support it anymore

[torn lagoon]

easy its a science fiction setting with a realistic ecosystem ok next question

[midnight heath]

They genetically mutated it though!"

[urban flax]

Of course it's bait, not that I care, personnally

[midnight heath]

The replies are boiling down to "magic"

[urban flax]

And we are the ones being contradictory here ?

[torn lagoon]

no its not bait you just have a hard time accepting facts when smacking you in the face with it

infact im getting annoyed by you two because you are un able to accept obvious facts

thats why when i shut down what you say you move onto something else

[urban flax]

I'm just trying to follow your point is

[midnight heath]

I mean, numbers mean little but there's a reason why only 2 other people aside yourself agreed with you.

[torn lagoon]

because you have nothing more to say because what i had answered with is obviously corerect

[midnight heath]

Maybe step back and reflect that maybe you're missing something

[urban flax]

But I'm having a hard time
I'm probably just dense, right ? It can' tbe that you're hard to follow or something ?

[torn lagoon]

yes a bunch of sore losers that cry when big dino eats them

[midnight heath]

Cera is tiny

[torn lagoon]

so then nerf the carno bro

lets just nerf the troodons while youre at it

[midnight heath]

Carno isn't making things x3 times it's size vomit and doesn't have the ability to stun-lock players.

[urban flax]

Do you actually understand what the community is asking for, and why they are asking for it ?

[torn lagoon]

i love playingas beimo it would be cool to kill a troodon

i cry everytime one kills me

[icy lion]

If none of you are capable of being constructive and civil then drop the subject

[urban flax]

Apart from "whining crybabies who hate losing to a bigger carnivore" ?

[torn lagoon]

then i go complain on discord because i am unwilling to get better at the game

thank you i would like to drop the subject with these guys

[urban flax]

Please, I'm trying very hard to keep it civil here

[torn lagoon]

so annoying and illogical

[icy lion]

You could have done that the entire time. Have more self control.

[torn lagoon]

i did i am not trying to insult them but dang bro

even when the truth is right there they cant accept it

you will die to cera

its life

and in life you gotta accept that theres always someone bigger or stronger than you

then it becomes a matter of out smarting your opponent when you cant out muscle them

[midnight heath]

Off-topic then, I would love to explore the possibility for creatures like hyspi to have harem-esc pairing rather than the monogamous pairing we currently have. I forget who originally brought it up but I think it'd be really unique.

Seeing one little male with 3 females all building nests would be really interesting overall.

[torn lagoon]

or might aswell nerf troodon so i can get some "fun" kills everytime i play beim

[urban flax]

Ok I need to know this, if nothing else
What is this "beim" you're talking about ?

[torn lagoon]

that would be to realistic to real world alpha males and this is a game bro what are you thinking?

the omnivore

[urban flax]

Yeah, but I don't like the idea of a certain sex having a form of "advantage" over the other

[torn lagoon]

a weal prey creature that cant do crap except exsist and be food

[midnight heath]

What would be the advantage be for that? I'm missing that entirely I think.

[torn lagoon]

why would that dino exist in the game if its about balance

[urban flax]

And I don't mean a balance advantage in this case
Just that then, if you pick female you have way higher chances of finding someone to pair with than if you play male

[torn lagoon]

cause i am WAY outmatched and its completely unbalanced playing as that dino

[torn lagoon]

yeah just dont know why you want a game to be more realistic tho?

[urban flax]

So people are encouraged to play female way more, but I like it more if it's just a matter of preference

[torn lagoon]

we just had an entire argument for an hour about how its not supposed to be

[midnight heath]

You have a point there, I'm not sure how you could make something like that work then; I just thought it sounded awfully cute.

[torn lagoon]

yeah i like your idea

because of its realism to alpha males

[midnight heath]

Finding mates are hard enough for nesting as is

[urban flax]

Sadly, it's not about realism this time

[torn lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/wow-gif-20411229

i dont even know what to say now, its like running around in circles

look have fun making devs make games easier for you, im going to go back to playing as a WAY outmatched dino

[urban flax]

I'm gonna try to explain it in simple terms
Let's say there is a dino we know nothing about the irl biology
Let's call it saurosaurus
Saurosaurus is underperforming and needs a speed increase to match the other dinos in the game
There is a 50% chance that this increase in speed will make it more realistic because irl sauroraurus was fast, and a 50% chance that it will make it less realistic, because irl saurosaurus was slow
But nobody cares about that
What matters is that saurosaurus needs the speed to be able to survive in the isle's ecosystem

[midnight heath]

I direly wish Pachy got something in terms of survivability.

I don't even know what it needs anymore at this point, poor thing is clunky, punished for missing and has awful bleed.

[urban flax]

I wish it was made good again too
But I think for that we're gonna need tiered fractures
And/or tiered stuns too

[midnight heath]

Can it still trade a carno ram and not take DMG via ram? I was never actually sure.

I know on Spiro you could

[urban flax]

You could parry pounces in Spiro too, but you can't anymore afaik
So it's possible its ability to parry carno ram was removed too

[midnight heath]

Tiered fractures would be interesting, curious if it'd stay exclusive to pachy until things like pachyrhino and anky arrive.

[midnight heath]

That is genuinely so sad

[urban flax]

But honestly I think it made little sense
Like I get it, pachy's head is very tough, but it already has a negative damage modifier to account for that
Doesn't need a 100% damage reduction from something 3x its weight charging it at high speeds

[desert arch]

I was able to parry pounces as a pinnable pachy in the same update back pounce was introduced. Idk since then tho, I didnt bother playing pachy since then lol

[midnight heath]

I know it can just move via it's agility but I feel like it's like when they removed the alt + run. Made combat a bit stale.

[urban flax]

With tiered fractures, I do hope more animals will get the ability to inflict fractures
Would add another layer of depth to combat

[midnight heath]

My pachy died within 8 seconds to a single omni, no pounce required recently and I haven't grown it since.

[urban flax]

Maybe it's been re-added then ? I'm pretty sure it was disabled at some point

[midnight heath]

I just bled out so fast.

Depth would be nice overall, a lot of fights I feel like boil down to the same few tactics - let alone cannibal fights being what they are.

[urban flax]

That's why I also think tiered stuns would benefit the combat gameplay of the game

[midnight heath]

I feel like it would be a real timeline getting balance all settled for tiers

[urban flax]

I'll try to find my old feedback about these and improve upon it

[midnight heath]

New ideas are always a good thing to peek at, and combat itself is sorely displaced in the feedback department.

[urban flax]

So here it is

Since the stuns balance is getting out of hand, I am once again suggesting a stuns rework ! Separate stuns into more tiers, to allow more counterplays and situations, like below :
-Light stagger (Ex : pachy ramming a carno) : Prevents launching any attacks and slows down movement a little bit for its duration (about 1-2 seconds). Doesn't cancel already launched attacks.
-Medium stagger (Ex : Carno Charging another carno) : Cancels most attacks and heavily slows down movement for its duration (about 2-3 seconds). Doesn't cancel some attacks like teno tailslam or carno's charge.
-Heavy stagger (Ex : Pachy ramming another pachy) : Completely puts the dino to a stop, for a short duration. Just like current stagger.
-Knockdown (Ex : Teno tailslamming an omni) : Stops the dino for a longer time than heavy stagger, like current knockdown. Possibly makes the dino vulnerable to some attacks like pachy's downwards headbutt or future pinning abilities.

In my idea, that would make the combat more akin to most fighting games, in forcing creatures to react to every hit they take

Hitting first becomes a valuable advantage as your opponent cannot just retaliate, and need to reposition themselves
But loses time in doing so
But if you don't take the opportunity to follow-up or avoid a possible counterattack, then you become the one being cornered

[midnight heath]

Having less full on stuns is something I'm all the more so honestly, it'd be interesting seeing stagger 1-3 and just how much that might change fights.

[steep swallow]

Humans are completely different from tigers, dinosaurs, etc lol. You can’t lump humans into the same category as animals

[wintry whale]

@tawny pendant The colors of hatched animals are already a mix of the parent's colors, or are you talking about patterns you can only unlock through nesting?

[tawny pendant]

Yes, only from nesting. More unique.

[wintry whale]

https://tenor.com/view/i-like-that-dan-gallagher-fatal-attraction-s1-e7-i-like-that-idea-gif-5707304908109937196

I love cosmetic stuff, sort of like awards for gameplay

[tawny pendant]

They can add something like color crossing 😄

Your color can be allways a suprise!

[wintry whale]

What I'm picturing is 2-3 skin types that you can't customize, but are potential options through nesting, recessive genes or something

[tawny pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/thumbsup-doublethumbsup-like-agreed-yup-gif-13577684808424737637

[steep swallow]

@austere field sideways running would definitely be interesting, I’d personally rather just see a different swimming animation for Hererra

[austere field]

Its just painful navigating up trees, and a little contradictory when herrera is essentially the monkey of dinosaurs. Also yes I do agree with the swimming animation, it looks a little too flounder-esque especially when herrera is supposed to be almost semi-aquatic. I'd also love for oxygen or swimming speed to be buffed

[steep swallow]

I’m fine with slow swimming speed on the surface but yeah increasing underwater swimming speed would be great

[austere field]

yes yes

[steep swallow]

@full pewter I’m in favor of more grassland/ Savannah but it would kinda suck for Hererra lol

[full pewter]

Open areas don’t have to be absent of trees, look at highlands, you can see your surroundings but there’s still plenty of trees for herras. I’ve also noticed herra players tend to hang out where jungles border plains anyway

[steep swallow]

True

[north quiver]

#general-feedback message

with every post highlighting cera’s benefits and practically zero weaknesses, I start to see cera more and more like someone’s self-inserted power fantasy creature

[austere field]

#general-feedback message @vital hazel How is the cera status any different than the Stego status? Genuinely curious, because the only drawback to playing stego is its speed aswell.

[sonic wagon]

the only okeyish explanation for ceras curent opness is, that they balanced them more with future dino releases and less the current dino roster in mind

ah thats easy, stego is a herbi, their main job isnt killing other stuff

[austere field]

That's what I was thinking the devs buffed it for. Similar to stego

[austere field]

Yes but they do regardless, all im saying is cera is essentially a lesser stegosaurus in many ways, and I don't understand the constant carnivore dragging when stuff like stego exist that the devs have said will be balanced out by future releases

[north quiver]

you can outrun stegos as basically almost everything and just simply deny interaction

stego’s powerswing costs an absurd amount of stamina, whereas cera has zero stam cost to its attacks (aside from the slight cost from alt biting)

ceras have bleed resistance where stegos do not

none of the current carnivore roster is really supposed to be hunting adult stegos (aside from ig large and coordinated omni packs and deinos when the steg swims), so they don’t really have an equal predator yet. rex will be out soon. very soon. however, ceras have insane punch up abilities due to how vomit currently works

[cyan flame]

Because stego is close to apex level, cera is not.

[north quiver]

^ that’s a very good point

cera’s supposed to be a scavenger and not a hugely successful hunter

[austere field]

Maybe the rest of the roster isn't really meant to compete with it and when allo, bary, apexes, etc. are added in, it will balance out. And while I do agree that previously cera wasn't close to apex level, it seems like it could have a bit of a identity change with evirma.

I think it will turn out to fit it's niche quite well once other large carnivores are added

[north quiver]

I think it’ll still be a menace if it’s not nerfed. at its current rate, it’ll be vomitting rex and other apexes in a couple of bites

a big enough pack of ceras (perhaps 5-6) will likely destroy anything slower than them id bet lol

allo? that thing is toast if ceras are faster

trike? also toast with its slow turning

rex? likely Also toast. vomit, attack during the vomit animation, wait 30 more seconds, then vomit again and rinse and repeat

it has absurd punch up potential right now

cera groups with an ounce of coordination and a good understanding of how vomit works can already easily kill dibbles and stegos. the bigger and slower the target is, the easier it’ll be

[austere field]

Mm yes vomit should be nerfed a bit, nothing drastic but enough to where they dont vomit you immediately, especially with the current size of packs they run in

[boreal briar]

@faint folio Is that sarcasm? Because I think that's how non-safe logs work xD

[faint folio]

Non-safe logs, yes. But if your game crashes, I have never come back to a live dino in the last couple patches

Fatal error? Sorry, your 4 hour grow is dead, even if there was nothing nearby

Its either a bug, or something they added to try to defeat players who cheat by crashlogging

But the problem is it unfairly punishes players when the game legitimately crashes (which, while not frequent, is also not uncommon right now)

[steep swallow]

If anything tune their packs down. Why should Ceras travel in a pack anyway? They fend for themselves for the most part and eat anything they come across including other Ceras, they shouldn’t be a pack animal.

[boreal briar]

oh? Hm. I haven't experienced any fatal errors recently. I'm guessing its just a bad bug

[faint folio]

Last time it happened to me it was kinda devastating because I lost so much growth and hard work 😭

[austere field]

I like the pack gameplay tbh but it is overpowered, I think they should run in packs of ~3-4 max? Not sure of what the current pack max is

[steep swallow]

But what really is the point of playing Cera if you want to play in a pack? Just play Omni lol

[faint folio]

4 adults right now is cera pack size unless that changed

[boreal briar]

Why play anything in a pack with that logic?

[austere field]

mm so the problem is people overgrouping becuase the animal is fun to play, not the pack size lol

[austere field]

they're two different animals with two different playstyles and mechanics

[steep swallow]

What can even kill a 4 pack cera?

They will essentially steamroll everything

[austere field]

It's very skill based imo, two dibbles can wreck em, 2-3 tenos, etc. just depends on the player

[boreal briar]

Steggs, deinos, 2 dibbles in the right place, a pack of actually compitent carnos

[steep swallow]

I should have been more clear, I meant carnivore wise

[boreal briar]

an herbivore herd

oh

[faint folio]

Given their greedy nature, I could see pack size being reduced to 2-3, and then adding a debuff when other ceratos are nearby for so long without combat. Shouldn't be too abusable because they're the same speed and stamina. They're the kind of dino that shouldn't tolerate others in their territory

[austere field]

Carno was T-bagged by the devs so yk it used to be a pretty even match, cera is so outrageous now because carno simply cant compete like it used to due to its weight loss journey lol

[austere field]

^^

[boreal briar]

I'd be suprised if a full pack of 4 could even sustain themselves properly at the moment. That's a lotta food and only like 1 kind of AI for them right?

[boreal briar]

Can they no longer knock over ceratos?

[austere field]

Pretty sure they can't

[faint folio]

To be fair I think carno is better suited to its intended niche now (although it's ability could still use tweaking). Cerato though isn't really playing in its niche right now

[austere field]

the problem isnt cera needing debuffs, the problem is it's only competition was taken away

[steep swallow]

My main gripe is as more than once I’ve been in a pack of like 7-8 Omnis and we’ll take something down and then 4 Ceras will roll in and there is nothing we can do except run away lol.

[boreal briar]

Yeah if thats the case then they can't really fight them. Then again carno isn't really meant to hunt Cera. I don't know if anything necessarily is meant to hunt them at the moment.

[austere field]

Yes, bile needs to be debuffed slightly I agree, ive been on the recieving end of cera hordes lol

[austere field]

mhm, similar to steg not having competition I think cera just needs some other dinosaurs of similar size on the roster to compete, not insane debuffs

[steep swallow]

I think Omni is supposed to hunt cera but even in a smaller pack we’ve only take down sub adults.

[austere field]

It only takes 3 omnis to pin an adult, i've taken down ceras with friends on omni multiple times

[boreal briar]

I wouldn't say they are, aren't cerato meant to have insane bleed resist? I can see them being meant to hunt young ones though

[boreal briar]

Or that. The pounce to pin is pretty strong. They also increased the min time you can pounce before getting removed

[austere field]

like, people griped about carno for months and it was finally debuffed- now look at it. its about as common as a dryo on officials because it's not fun to play at all. Feels like driving a tank made of cardboard in terms of gameplay

[steep swallow]

I know it’s anecdotal but this past month Ive actually never ran into a lone full grown Cera while playing in an Omni pack. Whenever I finally manage to find people we seem to always run into other Dino’s in packs lol.

[austere field]

Yes I get it, and part of the problem is the only fun midtier carnivore to play rn is literally cera so like- everyone is playing cera lmaooo

[steep swallow]

Yeah lol

[midnight heath]

It takes 2 to pin an adult, not 3.

[austere field]

even better

[midnight heath]

Two omni being able to instantly pin a fully stam, fully grown carno/cera is absurd in my opinion but at least the cera if it gets up likely won't die to bleed as fast as the carno.

[austere field]

carno is just an embarrassment rn, its weight needs to be rebuffed or something

or it needs to be increased to 3 raptors to pin

[midnight heath]

I enjoyed carno but I think it's growth time is far too long, it's diet is poor and for the vast majority of "small game" if there's ever more then 2 the carno might be outmatched.

I killed a lot of raptors with carno but that instant pin is what killed me.

[limber hull]

i think the issue is more to do with raptor than carno when it comes to pinning it

it shouldn't be that easy

[austere field]

mm I agree it should be increased to three omni, but carno is in an unfortunate spot rn

[midnight heath]

It does for sure, I do think grapple needs to be adjusted a bit.

I love failing the RNG bucking and that means I get pinned.

[steep swallow]

@vapid harbor for me the issue isn’t where I spawn necessarily, it’s that if I spawn in an area with no food and can’t find AI then I will go to the nearest body of water and drown myself rather than wait out starving.

[tight iron]

@unkempt siren mud yourself get in a sanctuary murder everyone

peak juvie gameplay

but realism is ass in this game

[limber hull]

I dont think realism justifies it lol

[urban flax]

Does mud even protect against bee stings ?
A stinger is not like a mosquito's proboscosis

[tight iron]

im guessing yes

like a good amount of mud

[urban flax]

The very point of the existence of bees in the game is to prevent adults from entering sanctuaries
If adults can enter sanctuaries despite there being bees they have no reason to exist

[tight iron]

realism doesnt justify anything

cause then deinos should be able to 1 shot everything and carnos should be able to 1 shot everything when ramming the head of the opponent

but also die if they hit the body cause they'd break their neck

ig youre right with that

however balance > realism and it aint balanced to let adults bypass the only way to get them out of sanctuaries

but it's still dumb

bees are there so juvies are kinda safe, it's dumb to let adults straight up bypass the only method there is to keep them out

well first off you dont have to 1v1 smth for it to be balanced

1v1 a stego as a troodon, if the troodon loses the stego should be nerfed

💯

now having said that i think most herbis are stupidly overtuned

but it's stupid to say "well some things arent balanced so let's unbalance everything" yknow

it is

why would it not be

an absolute massacre would happen

yea they would wallow and camp the sanctuary

and if smth gets in just chase it in there

they're full of juvies from what i can see

i can get in and casually murder 5

[urban flax]

"most herbis", in this case, being diablo

[tight iron]

not only dibble

[urban flax]

Who else ? Dryo ?

[tight iron]

teno stego dibble

[urban flax]

How are teno and stego overtuned ?

[tight iron]

teno is 1.6 tons and it does too much bleed imo, lil nerf to the bleed, downsize and we ball, and stego... powerswing says it all

not sure if dondi said he was gonna make teno 1.2 tons?

apparently he might've said it

and stego is just on another level rn, powerswing with no cooldown, ez 2k damage makes it unkillable unless the stego genuinely sucks

... or theres 10 raptors straight up jumping that mfer

[tight iron]

before anyone complains about this, i play a ton of teno

[urban flax]

I'm not sure why would teno deserve a size nerf... as for stego's powerswing, it still costs a ludicrous amount of stamina and compensates for the fact jab is terrible

[tight iron]

i just don't see the point in having a 1.6 ton teno, i would however adda tail slap

basically slaps you with the tail

[urban flax]

There's already enough terrible-looking attacks in this game

[tight iron]

and stego powerswing makes it unkillable, sure stamina cost is insane but... tactile endurance moment

however tactile endurance isnt only stego so i can't blame stego for having it

[urban flax]

So it's not the powerswing
It's the tactile endurance mutation

[tight iron]

no, it's both

also infinite swings

[urban flax]

Every carnivore have infinite bites, so I don't see the issue there

[tight iron]

removes most of the penalty for running outta stam

[tight iron]

do they deal 1.2k damage with the tail tho

head and tail are different, keep it in mind

tail receives barely any damage

also inf alt bites is bogus and should be removed

[urban flax]

Oh yeah, moving your head and jaw doesn't cost energy

[tight iron]

max you can do is 350 with cera and you make your head vulnerable

[urban flax]

I'd rather have it so every attack deals less damage AND is slowed down when out of stamina
But also make bites cost stamina

[tight iron]

bites costing stamina is very dumb imo but way less damage is completely reasonable

[urban flax]

You're comparing stego with an animal 1/5th of its size that is not even a hunter

[tight iron]

well you included carnivores so

[urban flax]

It's less dumb than bites not costing stamina

[tight iron]

keep in mind youre comparing a normal bite to a jab that can already 1 shot a ton of things

[urban flax]

I'm comparing a normal bite to every single other attack in the game, which costs stamina

I'm not sure what's the reasoning behind bites not costing stamina now that you can use attacks while out of stam tbh

[tight iron]

well then dont call me out when i compare cera fully charged bite

what they should've done instead of giving inf swings is let ppl get stamina back while at least standing from 0%

[urban flax]

You use the comparison as a "proof" that stego's damage is too high
But you're comparing two animals of vastly different sizes and niches

[urban flax]

That's still clunky as hell

[tight iron]

im not trying to prove anything

stego damage aint too high

you included carnivores in the comparison so i put the most damaging attack that a carnivore has right now

it aint my fault

[urban flax]

Being completely unable to attack at some points makes things boring, because you jsut watch as your dino dies
Players deserve to have a chance at surviving, even if extremely low
At least show that you're willing to fight to the end

[urban flax]

Deino lunge :

[tight iron]

deino lunge is only for water

you find other deinos and ppl drinking in the water thats p much it

also it's not fully damaging till the prey is dead

it's common to end up released

[urban flax]

Ok deino's bite then
Still higher than cera's charged bite and costs 0 stam

[tight iron]

should that take away all stamina managemetn tho?

[urban flax]

No, because, as I said, attacks would be weaker AND slower when out of stam

[tight iron]

yeah but not infinite, extremely damaging attacks

[urban flax]

You're still pretty much a sitting duck, but at least you can keep fighting out of desperation
It's more engaging than just watching as your dino dies

[urban flax]

Infinite yes
Extremely damaging no since damage would be reduced

[tight iron]

but it takes away all balance

being a sitting duck is your punishment for messing up over and over and over and over

[urban flax]

And I precisely said you would still be a sitting duck
Also, depending on your playable, it's just a punishment for missing up a few times or fighting outnumbered

[tight iron]

i guess you ain't wrong with that

[vapid harbor]

I really don't mind the random spawns either, I guess it depends on what you play though, but I do really agree that the AI spawn is really really frustrating. My point was just that this fix doesn't seem to be working for a big portion if the community :C

On a related note, I don't know if this is the reason, but I've noticed that the server tends to empty out when the MZ is in swamps, and I've heard multiple highland dwelling dibbles say "Oh no, the mz is so far away, let's just wait for it to come back here and eat grass in the meantime" 🥲

@candid nimbus I struggled with the west access spawn too, but if you need a tip I've made a very easy flight map in case of lack of frogs in the pond. Instead of trying to fly past the mountains to water access, follow the dirt road next to the pond south and you will reach another water source. If you're REALLY unlucky, you can easily go south from there to the mudflats and find plenty of tacos and turtles. Because the elevation decreases p much through that whole flight path, you won't waste several stamina bars trying to find food!

[boreal nymph]

when youre facing half the server herbivores... hopefully I get the mixpack pass fleeing to the crocs to save my life xD can't wait for Rex to even things out

[limber hull]

ceratosaur spotted

in 0.16 no less

send this man to angel world

[valid delta]

#general-feedback message

In response to this one, I just want to point out that while not common, there are some cases of wild predators working with other species to hunt. For those populations who do demonstrate that behavior, they are rewarded with a greatly increased success rate when hunting, so while it may be common, it is a good strategy for hunting. We can't stop the isle being played by humans and humans are good at strategy. So it is both slightly realistic to see mixpacked hunters, and is a good idea given how powerful some of the prey herbivore species are in the game. Obviously it can go to extremes with some massive packs, but such is the nature of a game like this where people are free to play as they like. Personally, I don't see a way to prevent it that wouldn't be a cheesy solution and that wouldn't be exploitable by those who would mix pack anyway.

[eternal cypress]

@tough anvil I agree with this, but sadly it just means we gotta find and play on or make servers with these rules and that also enforce it. There are many nice servers to join im making one myself but you can check them all out here https://discord.com/channels/401464048610312193/823624179399524402

#general-feedback message

[torn lagoon]

this is my favorite message, i really appreciate you guys talking to me

this message implies humans arent animals 1) category, it implies humans arent mammals 2) categories, it implies humans arent a part of the food chain 3) categories, and it implies humans arent part of the evolutionary process. thats 4 categories humans are lumped all into. this has been common knowledge for over 100 years by scientists and biologists and yet in 2024 here i am explaining it, its not some nonsense i am making up and im sure you think i am making up most of what i say. but you know google is a thing if you dont believe me i dont need google to know common knowledge

i really enjoy helping you guys learn things its fun, have a great day stay positive 👍

[indigo gulch]

to be fair, humans are a special case when it comes to animals

[torn lagoon]

nope not how it works they are animals

[cyan flame]

I don't think that message says any of that at all, since it doesn't even mention most of those things. It's simply pointing out that comparing us, with technology and everything, to the rest of the animals that mostly lack such, is maybe not the best and most accurate thing.

In any case, it has little to nothing to do with your claims about cerato (yes, I did read the convo), or you not understanding that the game balance takes precedence over realism, and that cerato has a given niche in the game (like other stuff) that it should be adjusted for.

[faint folio]

In addition, the isle isn't supposed to be a natural ecosystem to begin with. For 1) it is set in modern times, not prehistoric times, for 2) according to lore the dinos are created by an evil AI supercomputer experimenting with various mutations to create the best super-monster for unknown reasons. Some of those mutations literally modifying the intelligence and abilities of dinosaurs. And for 3) most of the dinos in the game didn't coexist in the same ranges at the same time - both utahraptor and dilophosaurus were apex predators in their ecosystems when they lived, for example. My point being, the isle very deliberately departs from realism. I dislike mix packing not because it's unrealistic (the entire game is unrealistic), but because the game isn't balanced for species to cooperate together

[torn lagoon]

they are mammals, and if you guys havent read the original conversation ill let you know it had to do with me explaining how OP animals exist irl. humans are OP animals

weak feeble creatures that become over powered through technology

[indigo gulch]

thats what I meant with the special case

[cyan flame]

What utahraptor, we don't even have one yet xD

[torn lagoon]

its not special its nature

[indigo gulch]

....no? It's an exception to a rule

[torn lagoon]

humans are a part of nature anything nature creates is not an exception to the rule

[cyan flame]

I'd agree that humans are "overpowered", which is a worry for the game honestly, due to guns and all that and how that'll work with the dinosaurs

[torn lagoon]

other wise they wouldnt be created by nature if it wasnt natural

[cyan flame]

But that has nothing to really do with anything else, since we're talking about the game and if a playable is balanced or OP given the game, not real life

[faint folio]

The Utah raptor that was Jurassic Park utahraptor, and then the devs decided to add a "realistic" Utah raptor, so they renamed Utah raptor to omniraptor...

[torn lagoon]

it was for the cera i was explaining how it is natural and realistic for cera to be OP its just how nature works

[cyan flame]

... Okay, fair, but you know as well as I that it's not really near an actual utah xD

[indigo gulch]

this is such a circle reasoning holy...

[torn lagoon]

and soon a rex will bump it down a notch on the food chain

[cyan flame]

And it doesn't matter for the game isn't realistic and game balance comes before realism

Hence, it doesn't matter if "nature has OP things", because we're making a game, and thus we have to take that into consideration

[torn lagoon]

huh? no its legitamately facts, you want me to make it make more sense to you by lying?

thats ridiculous

[indigo gulch]

Exceptions to a rule exist in nature tho. It's called a birth defect

[torn lagoon]

look guys i dont make these facts so dont hate me for it ok?

[faint folio]

I'm gonna quote yourself here 😜 "And it doesn't matter for the game isn't realistic and game balance comes before realism"

[torn lagoon]

i had enough people gang up on me yeterday including mods

[cyan flame]

... Fair enough, point to you!

[torn lagoon]

so if you dont except common knowledge thats on you

[indigo gulch]

you are lacking the nuance to appropriately use the facts in a reasoning

[indigo gulch]

*accept (not meant as an insult, just in case you dont know)

[cyan flame]

Even if your claims about nature and reality are accurate, it doesn't matter. Cera was, perhaps still is overtuned, and thus needed an adjustment

[torn lagoon]

ohh sorry i didnt realize i needed to add nuance to facts? lol

[steep swallow]

You have a superiority complex lol. No animal on Earth compares to humans. No animal builds civilizations has advanced technology and can destroy the earth with the click of a button.

[torn lagoon]

ooops wrong reply my bad erik

[cyan flame]

No worries

[torn lagoon]

let me take your home away and all your fancy tools and then throw you in the amazon and see how you compare bud

[faint folio]

Yeah that reply was to me 😜 they're arguing 2 different conversations. One about Utah raptor and one about humans

[indigo gulch]

they'll find a way. Like humans did before them

[cyan flame]

Granted, you could argue that it's not "humans" doing that, but our tech. But why is this relevant to the Isle, aside from potential balance issues with said tech in the game

[steep swallow]

Are we talking about Stone Age humans or modern humans? The Isle has modern humans not cavemen lmao.

[torn lagoon]

this is what supuriority complex looks like, i am just telling you guyus scientific facts and you treat me like i am the one that made them up

[torn lagoon]

humans ancient and modern are almost completely the same you know that right? its only the technology that sets us a part

[faint folio]

It may be natural and realistic to have OP builds, but games aren't nature, and more importantly, the number one rule of games is they are FOR FUN. And that means balancing everything, because if a build is OP, then it's not fun for the players fighting against that build

[torn lagoon]

the game attempts to make a realistic ecosystem smh

[steep swallow]

Ok, except we’re the only species to actually advance, you don’t see monkeys with houses and real tools. This is besides the point, even if you put ancient humans into The Isle if you were going off of realism then they would simply build structures and weapons and be OP.

[torn lagoon]

here i am getting ganged up on by people but if someone like niel degrass tyson was here and said everything i am saying was true youd accept it

[indigo gulch]

I never said you made it up.

[steep swallow]

Neil “santa actually isn’t real” Tyson isn’t the best example lol

[torn lagoon]

no WE our bodys dont advance technology does, and if a major sunflare happened and destroyed all of our tech youd be thrown back into the stone age because you didnt evolve technology did

[cyan flame]

I don't think it does, no

[cyan flame]

Right, but at one point humans did survive without tech, unless we believe it just existed on it's own

[indigo gulch]

I simply implied that there is more to it. But if you feel like I’m “bullying” you or “ganging up” I can leave. Don’t want to make this an issue

[torn lagoon]

ok thats the last straw, the world is doomed if people are this intelligent

if anything you guys devolved from the stoneage i am out

[mild isle]

What is this feedback even about-

[cyan flame]

So, not sure what your point there is, humans did after all evolve and survive like any other animal, and if absolutely needed, we probably could do it again

[faint folio]

The game attempts to pretend to be a realistic ecosystem. There's nothing realistic about it, really. Dilophosaurus was an apex predator when it was alive, and it didn't coexist with the rex or ceratosaurus. Not to mention that Omni raptor isn't even a real species. And human players will never act the same way most carnivores or herbivores would irl. We're too intelligent and social.

[cyan flame]

But again, it has nothing to do with the Isle, or if things should be balanced or not for a game

[mild isle]

He called us intelligent, forgot to put the un

[faint folio]

You could probably make the point that a lot of humans would die in the initial years following such a catastrophe. I don't think most humans retain the knowledge to build a spear and the athleticism to chase down food. Not to mention that our internal organs have evolved to not process raw food

But if that initial population collapse doesn't kill us, we'd relearn those lost skills pretty quickly, at least at a primitive/stone age level

[steep swallow]

And even then humans would still dominate the wildlife and build civilizations as we always have. We are completely unique to the earth, instead of physically evolving claws or stronger fast twitch muscles we build upon our intelligence with inventions and strategies. Again, you can’t compare an animal (such as a tiger or dinosaur) to a human.

[mild isle]

I mean you could also make points it would be very hard for us to lose everything we’ve built- I seriously doubt there could be an event that would manage to wipe out all of technology, existing inventions, etc. I feel like there will always be something that exists that won’t cause us to have to completely rebuild
Hence why I’m so confused on this topic

[cyan flame]

@mild isleTopic has nothing to do with the game, somehow we got into this because of an argument that cerato should be OP because there's OP creatures IRL, humans being an example apparently

[faint folio]

True. But even assuming we lost absolutely everything, we'd be capable of crafting simple tools, and they were plenty effective enough last time around

[mild isle]

That sounds- interesting..

[cyan flame]

Can be even more basic if you want. Slightly pointed sticks and rocks to throw.

[mild isle]

Humans managed to kill mammoths with such so lol

[steep swallow]

Literally just chase them over a cliff lmao

[faint folio]

I don't get it. We're not irl, and it is a game. Games should be fun, otherwise they aren't worth playing. Balance is a part of making a game fun

[cyan flame]

The closest we can take from this would be how ingame humans will be balanced, what with guns and all, and even so, we'd be talking about the game, not real life

So yeah, it's been a bit interesting

[mild isle]

Realism is beyond possible for The Isle, if people want it to be realistic we’d have to have a set time period lol because all these Dino’s didn’t coexist xd

[faint folio]

As an aside, there are other examples of animals that have evolved intelligence. Corvids are wicked smart, and we'd probably be in serious trouble if they had evolved dexterous hands with opposable thumbs

[steep swallow]

I just pretend it’s Jurassic park and that’s why they all exist at the same time

[steep swallow]

While they’re smart, I seriously doubt they have human levels of intelligence.

[mild isle]

I mean I would probably balance it by not giving humans automated guns- keep it to pistols and instead give humans some armor and maybe an escape plan like vehicles (which is already planned I believe)

[faint folio]

You could argue that they haven't evolved human intelligence partially because they don't have the right limb configuration to allow them to fully take advantage of intelligence. They're limited to what they can manipulate with a beak

[steep swallow]

If they have human level intelligence wouldn’t it be possible for them to take something like an IQ test?

If they could understand some sort of communication?

[faint folio]

Potentially, but it depends on what you mean by intelligence. Obviously there's no evolutionary pressure for corvids to understand human language. That doesn't necessarily mean they're not smart

[steep swallow]

I know they can figure out things such as dropping rocks into a glass of water to reach it, just like an octopus can open a lid (trial and error maybe?) but I was under the impression orcas were possibly the smartest animal besides humans.

Which I can see it the most with the way they hunt

[faint folio]

They do have excellent problems solving skills, and they craft and use tools. They also recognize individual flock members and even individual people; they're even thought to be self-aware (able to recognize their reflection as themselves, and also able to understand that others may have different knowledge than themselves). This permits secret-keeping as well as cooperation

[faint folio]

A species of corvid has been observed crafting sticks of various geometries into tools to acquire food

[steep swallow]

That’s pretty crazy, I really hope in the near future we’re able to conduct some sort of test to see how much they truly understand. I didn’t think they’d be able to pass the mirror test, I know normally humans only pass it once past the toddler stage

[faint folio]

Orcas and dolphins in general are another clade of extremely intelligent animals. Wouldn't be surprised if they also didn't really develop technology because they don't have dextrous hands to manipulate items

[mild isle]

Or because they can’t go on land

[steep swallow]

Not to sound rude but don’t you think simply a lack of hands isn’t the best ‘excuse’ lol

[faint folio]

I don't think being confined to a marine lifestyle makes tool and technology development impossible

[urban flax]

I've read the convo and have been wondering, this guy says it makes sense for cera to be OP because humans irl are OP (debatable but that's beyond the point) because of their technology
Does cera have access to technology in order to become OP ?

[faint folio]

Well... Yes and no. The main thing humans use intelligence for is to craft tools and technology, as well as cooperate. Orcas and corvids both use intelligence for cooperation, but beyond simple tools, they don't really have the anatomy to develop anything more complex. I suppose it doesn't need to be hands per se, but you need more than just your mouth to attach different components together and make more complicated tools

Orcas moreso as birds can co-opt a foot

[steep swallow]

True, and that’s why im just curious, I didn’t realize corvids were that intelligent. On the other hand though, what’s the deal with primates?

[urban flax]

They're full of murderous intent

[faint folio]

Honestly, I think it's kinda a situation of evolution trying a whole bunch of random mutations, and only people got the mega buff to intelligence (plus the transition to bipedal walking, which frees up hands permanently for tool manipulation)

Basically, I think we kinda won the evolutionary jackpot. A perfect storm if you will

[steep swallow]

I mean, humans kind of are too, obviously humans have much more compassion/ empathy though lol

[steep swallow]

Yeah, and that’s why we’re unique among all animals. I think balancing humans in the game would be difficult without limiting the playable quite a bit and basically just make the human playable limited to only using “x” amount of tools.

[faint folio]

I think similarly. I'm hoping they release humans on officials soon and start working out balance sooner rather than later. Its gonna be tricky for sure

[urban flax]

That's what I say
Primates (including humans) are full of murderous intent
Except bonobos

[steep swallow]

Ohhh lo

[faint folio]

Even bonobos have done some pretty awful stuff. Maybe not as bad as other great apes, but still

Then again most of nature is full of murderous intent. It's kill or be killed out there

[urban flax]

Okay but primates really are full of spite
Almost every interaction with a monkey begins or ends with aggression

[cyan flame]

Maybe the Isle is pretty accurate to reality and an ecosystem after all then

[urban flax]

Also gonna point out something : The more intelligent an animal is, the more cruel it becomes

And by cruel, I mean "wanting to inflict pain for its own pleasure"

[faint folio]

Maybe XD let's just say I've never seen a cape buffalo worry that its not supposed to kill lions because it's a herbivore that eats grass and is lower on the food chain

[mild isle]

Just because you’ve haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen 😞😞

Everyday one Cape buffalo refrains from killing a lion due to being a herbivore

[faint folio]

Oh my b then. I forgot herbivores are supposed to eat grass and die

[mild isle]

Exactly 😢
(I’m just joking if that wasn’t obvious)

[faint folio]

I got that! 😜 No worries, my reply was joking too

[faint folio]

@charred wagon I don't know if this is universal, but the last time I played on official servers, I ran to 2 different sanctuaries as a baby omniraptor (swamp and northern jungle), and both had taco AI that was reasonably easy to kill.

Not sure if this applies to all sanctuaries, and I'm not sure if taco is a diet food for all carnivores, but it was nice to have available food

[charred wagon]

I ran into sanct as a baby about 4 times and it had nothing. I heard a baby herra killing a dibble but I had fallen and was on orange-red while trying to get to it.

god i need sleep

[charred wagon]

but yeah It's not universal and if it is it's based on RNG I guess. I got lucky and got a perfect diet recently but died to my groupmate trying to kill an omni that I was aiming for >>

[mild isle]

This may be an unpopular view but I kind of like the luck aspect of finding food? It feels more survival to me lol and it feels more rewarding to actually find something to eat 😭
Btw I’m not arguing for or against anything here, just wanted to say this

[silent thunder]

I agree, food should decrease with more Dino's in the area (scaring off ai food and plants being gobbled up) and be more abundant in areas with less-no Dino's, it would reward exploring a bit more I think but it would also give more of a natural feel to migrating instead of just having specific locations having more spawns, it would also change hotspot locations a bit and keep people moving

I also think herds should produce a better trail to track for hunting but that's definitely a later thing

And I'm not meaning finding food immediately outside of a radius of dino groupings, I mean certain areas have limited supply scattered around and refresh at random intervals after the population of that area is under a threshold or something

[charred wagon]

This is not a bad take at all. I enjoy finding food too. However, It IS also good to remember that Sanctuary ONLY benefits herbivores at the moment. Baby carnivores can try to run to them and find baby herbivores to eat, but most of the time the babies have moved on because they either dont WANT to be eaten or have friends that they're using as a pack for protection.

Compies give nothing towards adults. If anything at all. The proposition is just to let baby carnivores- who can hardly even can defend themselves at that stage- a chance to grow past juvie. Too many times me adn others have spawned trying to look for food only to waste 20 minutes of our lives looking for one small creature we can actually hunt. The game should reward catches, do not get me wrong. But sanctuary is not a sanctuary. I dont want to load in a fresh dino just because I starved to death. 4 dino's dying of starvation is an hour of my life I have wasted and is a big issue. This is a game, and not to mention realism isn't even part of the isle because humans vs dinos and then experiments and yadda yadda. The least carnivore babies can have is a few compies in Sanctuary to get them to ,, at LEAST 50% hunger so they can not die and learn to enjoy the game. This would also bring in more people to Sanctuary to hunt, I feel, increasing traction and providing babies with diets IF their preferred food shows up and they can tackle the fight.

[mild isle]

Oh lol I have already upvoted your suggestion, my statement was more of unrelated to any ongoing discussion

[charred wagon]

Ahhh

[faint folio]

I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, you shouldn't be guaranteed food. That undermines the entire point of survival games. On the other hand, I very strongly believe that anything that happens to a player character in a survival game should be due to a player's own choice, both good and bad. Therefore, if a player is actively trying to find food and playing the way the dino is intended, they should be able to find food before they starve. I think there's some missing mechanics. There's no real way for a carnivore to track down AI, which are sometimes silent, and going to a migration zone or patrol zone does not guarantee an herbivore encounter or even an AI encounter. There's something missing

[charred wagon]

Still, it feels best to explain the thoughts. I just want to not waste my time. "just play herbi" is an excuse i've seen many times and that defeats the entire purpose of the ecosystem-like feel of evrima. Or at least what it's supposed to have. The game should not hold your hand, but at the very least, help the players survive to adulthood so they way they can actually progress through juvie stages better

[hazy cypress]

@harsh sun we do NOT need more biomes, we need a larger/different map. we already have multiple biomes, but the way the map is layed out, its seems small and cramped

[harsh sun]

A lot of places on gateway seem unfinished

The highlands biome might be a little bit of a stretch, but the others i do not see a problem with implementing

[hazy cypress]

i hate the map for evrima rn, it feels like dinos arent supposed to be there. on legacy, it was uniform and felt like you were actually a dino in the wilderness. i feel like im ona campground when i play evrima. i hate the dirt roads

[harsh sun]

Fair. Imo temperate biomes fit dinosaurs so much better. And i hope to see a temperate biome in the future

[hazy cypress]

the dirt roads make the game far too easy and makes the map seem incredibly small. no matter what dino i spawn as, i know the exact road i have to take, what turns to make, when to cut through the woods, etc. i want it to feel like im treking through the forest/jungle

[quartz prism]

Really have to agree with the points about how finding food feeling chance based as herbi not a good aspect.
Especially when you consider the flip side of carnivores, while needing to find wandering food, at least can get some of each their diets from a fresh copse. With herbis it just feels like your fighting the game having poor balance
Ensuring theres a even spread of plant types in mz and patrols is a good basic fix to this issue. And would make more sense because more often herds would need to move because theres no more food rather than theres only 1 type of food spawing

[hazy cypress]

herbis are being thrown into the mud rn, it seems the devs want massive packs of ceras ruling everything. personally, the game is so boring and crappy rn that im gonna wait until they actually add something of substance

[harsh sun]

Imo it would be better to have different variations of the biomes we have. A bamboo biome would be interesting because it could be a migration zone for some herbivorous dinosaurs. In fact, bamboo could be another edible plant type. The elephant grass plains biome would provide some needed variety to the plains. It would be a more dangerous place as sight is limited (although i don't invision the player being blinded) if you do very deep into the biome, giving even apexes the chance to sneak up on you. The update 2 tall grass could be another plains type scattered around the map.

[quartz prism]

Yaaa. As much as i love ceras its taken away from the other dinos cool aspects because they now just feel inferior.
also the poor performace is a really big issue rn too

[hazy cypress]

they for some reason made cera an "apex" of evrima instead of a scavenger like what its meant to be

[harsh sun]

Completely acceptable to have the cera your chasing ping back behind you and bite you 2 times to make you vomit

[quartz prism]

Trueee. With how strong cera is rn i would rather see allos in that hit class.
and @harsh sun yaa the amount of bites to make soemone vomit is really low. It needs to be more in line with something like dilo venom where its always 3 bites but the venom isnt something thats forsure doing to effect the player stats (only vision) so ppl can counter it a bit. Meaning cera vomit with is forsure taking stam and etc bars down, needs to take more effort from the cera apply onto its target to give the target a chance to counter

[mint forge]

#general-feedback message @barren zephyr
I guess it shouldn't have a cooldown but rather something ceratopcian have to do in order to keep their orn correctly fonctionning and applying eventually more bleed to their attack

[barren zephyr]

Well no it need a cooldown lol Ceratopsians would be too OP if there wasn’t a cooldown

Plus it could introduce pack nuzzling and stuff that can give everyone a small boost for the whole group

[mint forge]

as I see the thing, not rubbing their orn against tree would nerf their damage over time. not a big pourcentage but also unable them to do bleed

[barren zephyr]

I do like the idea of dinosaurs having to do thing to stay sharp ngl

[faint folio]

It sounds like you've just memorized the map. You could try avoiding the roads and intentionally tracking through the woods to give you that rugged feeling you're missing? Many animals actively try to avoid humans and their buildings irl, so that's reasonable behavior.

The human elements are there intentionally, however. With all the electric fences everywhere, I think it's intended to feel almost like Jurassic park- an island full of dilapidated facilities meant to keep dinosaurs contained in pens/pastures has broken down to the point that the dinosaurs have escaped their enclosures 👀

[icy lion]

I'm not sure if there's any currently on the map but there's been a few fence models with massive holes torn through them

Busted down gates, too, might've been in a devblog

[wintry whale]

@harsh sun I’m really hopeful for other island maps eventually, I’d love an island with black sand and an active volcano, and bamboo forest sounds great, small just weaves through, middle suffers, and apex just ploughs on through

[hazy cypress]

the only issue is, they put those stupid ass walls that force you to go on the path

[faint folio]

But, as lunary mentioned, they're working on making it so creatures can bust through fences and such. That should help. But sometimes yes, gates are placed strategically to result in slightly higher traffic areas

[hazy cypress]

by creatures you mean rex, what if i wanna play pachy or galli. that wont help AT ALL

[faint folio]

yes and no. while not able to make a hole on demand, they can still benefit from holes made by creatures like rex, giga, trike and anky (who I'd expect could also make holes in fences). and again, the super large heavy duty fences are intentionally placed to make high traffic areas, just like the bridges over rivers

[latent olive]

just pointing out, homo sapiens is the only pure sentient creature on the planet because we killed everything else that walked on two legs and talked

yes, i am aware of neanderthal genes in humanity

[urban flax]

Watch out with your use of the word "sentient"
I'm a firm believer that every macro-organism on this planet except jellyfish and mayflies is sentient

Also, if I remember what I learned well, we killed off other humans species because we carried disease more than because we actually wanted to kill them
Except the giants, probably

[steep swallow]

Thoughts on Dilo? I rarely see people complaining about it

Both in terms of people who play it and those who get killed by it

[boreal briar]

People complain about the no jumping, and sometimes about the hallucinations..

Personally I kinda like them, but I don't have much group experience with them.
Now that stuff can get hurt when on rocks though, it's pretty nice that they cannot run away.
Just a shame that also means you cannot eat the bodies, but I still think its fine they cannot jump.

As with everything, it really depends on how well you know how to fight as/against the Dilo.

[steep swallow]

I don’t like that they can’t jump, but I think that it’s balanced so I don’t complain, however I don’t really play Dilo so I was just curious

[cold minnow]

@steep swallow herrera isn't a semiaquatic the fact it can dive underwater is already too much

[boreal briar]

Yeah I agree with it being balanced, it's kinda like Carno. It's got them super fast but lanky legs that ain't for jumping.

I'd give it a shot since they are pretty easy to grow at the moment. They feed on AI that are very plentiful in East Plains and that place West of South Plains, I forget the name

[steep swallow]

Why do you think it’s too much? Catching fish is much easier if you can swim a bit faster underwater. I’m not asking for anything close to Beipi speed but right now they are one of the slowest swimmers.

[boreal briar]

Yeah I'd say they are semi-aboreal more than semi-aquatic. I consider the under water swimming as just a way to move without being murked instantly with the slow swim speed

And as a respawn mechanic because lets be real, they too slow to run anywhere after spawning xD

[steep swallow]

Getting a bad spawn as Hererra can be tough lol, you are moving at like 15kph which feels like Troodons trot speed

[stiff solar]

Is this where I complain about hearing a dino call 30 feet away and then flying 1000 feet away and still hear the same dino call as if it's still only 30 feet away? It probably wasn't even 30 feet away in the first place #SoundIssues

[cyan flame]

Would be nice if they did make herrera a bit more tuned for being semiaquatic, offer a slightly different lifestyle (or if they just made the mutations for those things better/combined)

[boreal briar]

I'd love more mutations that feel like you are specializing more than just combat/healing. The swim speed buff probably doesn't do a whole lot for Hera since the base is too slow for the % increase to matter.

[steep swallow]

Faster underwater swim speed could also come in handy to avoid a bigger dino jumping into a river to kill you while you are getting a fish

[wintry whale]

@arctic bloom Please don’t spread misinformation, the feedback channels exist for a reason, you wouldn’t have them if there was no point

[arctic bloom]

yeah just wish more people would read them

[boreal briar]

@livid blade Getting a Thaggomizer to the brain and dying seems balanced enough. If apexes died like that it'd be broken sure, but the Steggo is the strongest and slowest herbivore for a reason.

[cyan flame]

@livid blade Yes, it is. Carno and cera are both rather "small" critters, stego is quite the large and powerful one. It'd be stranger if stego did not oneshot them, at least with it's properly powerful attacks (the swing).

[livid blade]

Not agree. At least 2 shots. But 1 shotting is extremelly OP and ridiculous...

[bronze nymph]

Why though makes total sense

[wintry whale]

3 foot long spike vs 3 inches of skin, muscle, and bone to protect vital organs

[bronze nymph]

Just dont get hit its easy to avoid

[boreal briar]

Or at least not in the head. Lol

[livid blade]

psssss whatever

still a lot to balance, sheesh

[boreal briar]

@winter geode I heard that they cannot switch Evrima to GeForce now until Evrima becomes the main branch. This probably wont be a thing at least until the full dino life cycle but that's just a guess on my part. They could wait all the way until the humies are finished

[desert arch]

A running power swing would need to do less than 865dmg for that. That would make stego absolute fodder, especially while growing.

[bronze nymph]

Why though? Its easy to avoid ans hits like a Truck, as it should

[valid delta]

Neither of those two carnivores should be hunting a large steggo. It's like complaining that a bobcat can't hunt a moose. There are fossils of Allosaurus that have punctured pelvis bones from being impaled and killed by steggos. So it's very realistic that something with literal spears on its tail could kill an animal smaller than itself with one well placed strike.

[vital laurel]

@silk prairie ram speed is already like 55-60🙏😭🙏

[agile fable]

stego can already get killed easily by 3 ceras if the ceras dont just run into its tail because stego can never escape a cera. you fall for one bait and the 3 of them will bite you for 500-600 damage, even more if they are charge biting you/all 3 hitting you in the head. so you can only get baited 7ish times before you die. this is ignoring gastro mutation, less dmg from bigger species mutation, if they have a body buff, plus their puke.
also if you nerf stego damage then what happens besides the cera/carno? suddenly a single dibble is your worst nightmare, you cant hide from it, you cant run from it, you live and die by its will.

a carno should never fight a stego fg in the first place, it doesnt have the agility to do so, and if you die to a stego as a carno you fought it; it didnt fight you.

[pseudo slate]

its 1 shot to the head right or the body asw?

[tight iron]

why wings 😭

WHYYYYY 😭

A DEINO CASUALLY JUST FLYING TOWARDS A STEGO 😭

AIR SUPPORT BUT FROM DEINOS 😭

[urban flax]

Stego's tailjab is 1200 or 1250 damage, cera and carno both have 1300 hp
So it's only a oneshot to the head

[north quiver]

#general-feedback message POV: you’re grabbed by a land deino and flown half a mile to water to be drowned

[pseudo slate]

well then its fine i dont see a issue stego is apex herbi

[graceful orbit]

• neck or chest

[torn lagoon]

(everything stated in this feedback is my opinion on the server its not meant to hurt feelings and all statements are observations or facts about the game.)

it is my OBSERVATION that some players may need to pay attention to game details when they purchase a game on steam in regards to things like "nerfing the cera" for example

in the game details on the steam store page. everything people were attacking me for is specified there where you buy the game and it validates everything ive said and what everyone claims is wrong in other words the argument I have been having with other users is defined in the game details and backs me up which is ironic but i am sure that people will still tell me i am wrong after they read this.

i said its not supposed to be fun, so does the game details, i said its not supposed to be fair or balanced, so does the game details, i said its supposed to simulate an ecosystem so does the game details, i said that people that cant handle dying want to change the game to help make it fair nd the game details literally says its not meant for catering to what is fair
most of the time you play as a prey creature, the point is roleplaying the point is realism. why would a dryo exist in the game AT ALL if its meant to be balanced? am i supposed to be able to fight dinos as a dryo? so why make it fair for other dinos but not for a dryo? life isnt fair and thats what makes a realistic ecosystem balanced.

Youre not playing as a dryo to have fun youre playing to fit your part of the world and immerse in the role of a creature THAT IS FOOD for something bigger.

if you are an enjoyer of role playing then that boring dryo becomes something more which is fun to that type of gamer. every player has their part in the ecosystem just like how every animal plays their part irl
if anything you guys got me to appreciate the game more because its literally meant for people like me that play games to escape and become someone else aka roleplay. it is possible that those who want a balanced experience for fighting and fun are playing the wrong game especially if you cant appreciate what its trying to achieve. if i state that youre playing the wrong game its not offensive and just an observation to help you. it is sad that i have to point things out like that so that mods dont time me out for being condescending to others when in reality i am saying a genuine statement that is true. if i am speaking truth how is it my fault people are upset? thats not my fault and if i want to have conversations in the server of my favorite game i have to abandon the goals of the game and join them in misunderstanding just so i can have a conversation without being ganged up on.

in addition a better way to handle things other than timing me out is stopping the argument by stating the facts i had just mentioned

thank you

every big dino could starve if it wasnt for your death, your death is meant to happen because we are all food

no i have my own opinion on things except for being upset that i am food

i would like sub scattering to be back you might not know what that is

i would like the chat bar to fade instead of being stuck to the screen and many more

but i wont complain about the main purpose of the game which is you are meant to die that the devs MAKE CLEAR before you purchase the game

so you are telling me i dont make sense about something that the devs made the game a specific way on purpose

i literally align with the game and you say i dont make sense?

the game doesnt make sense about itself?

you dont make sense bud

youre telling me i am wrong when the game is purposefully made that way

did you even read the details?

they warn you they WILL NOT CATER TO YOU

before you purchase it

bro i am not talking to you until you read the game details

apparently you or you wouldnt have something to say about it?

im not making an opinion i am letting you know what the game was made for

this ISNT MY OPINION

ITS LITERALLY THE GAME DEVS GOALS

i am sorry you dont agree with me but i didnt make the game

take it up with the devs please

lol

sir i politely ask that you either accept you are meant to be food or just drop it

every other dino would starve if you didnt die

ai is scarce because you are part of the food chain too

if anything evrima takes this goal even more seriously

and legacy is the one to forgiving

i politely ask everyone just accept that youre part of the food chain and learn how to roleplay TRUST ME THE GAME WILL BE MORE FUN WHEN YOU PLAY IT PROPERLY

my proof that the game is for strict roleplay is the existence of the dryo

[lilac bolt]

i mean if you think about it i guess you're correct? everything and anything is made to die in the isle nothing should last forever. however someone dying should be through player choice and actions everything you do or don't do matters.

[torn lagoon]

explain to me why such a boring dino exists?

[torn lagoon]

thank you sir i like your open mindedness and obvious advanced intelligence

[lilac bolt]

currently dryo is boring is because it's not feature complete yet.

[torn lagoon]

but i disagree that dying should be player choice thats kinda funny thing to say xD

dryo is boring on legacy too

infact ever herbi is eat and drink and walk and die

boring af just like a roleplayers dream

roleplaying is boring my friends

[torn river]

I’m not downloading a file to read something that’s for sure

Finna virus my ahh

[torn lagoon]

unless you love it then its special

[torn lagoon]

this is the "virus"

i noticed it sent as a file because it was to big so i posted it here too

[torn lagoon]

there

im not cryin lol

i am just saying the truth that many people cant accept

[lilac bolt]

like in general terms i guess if that makes sense? like there should always be something a player can do either by accident or through skill that can either bring them closer to death or to getting to survive. am i making sense?

[torn lagoon]

you are one of those people, its ok that you cant accept it but it doesnt make it any less true

[torn lagoon]

im sorry friend but dying on your own terms is not how most games work

especially the isle

[lilac bolt]

honestly i think it applies with basically everything besides player to player interaction

[torn lagoon]

@torn river anyone that wants to read the downloadable file its posted here too i have replied to it

[torn lagoon]

its a pvp game sir

the pinical of player to player interaction

[lilac bolt]

that's part of it sure but it's mainly marketed to be a survival horror game

[torn lagoon]

ahh the ganging up has begun

this is the worst server in the world lol

only here cause i love the isle

[inland vigil]

I was a dryo being pursued by raptors and I was able to make the choice to set up myself for a pounce, dodge at the last minute and send the raptor flying off a cliff. Even the most useless of herbivores still have choices. But at the same time I don't want the isle to ever become like POT where a tiny useless animal can somehow fight a giant one on an even playing field. They need to die in one hit. It's only fair
Yes there should be ways to dodge or flee but not always

[torn lagoon]

yes please everyone gang up on me for explaining the purpose of the game

[inland vigil]

Can you chill out
You're not being ganged up on

[lilac bolt]

here

[torn lagoon]

yes

you survived good job

[torn lagoon]

sir i have been getting ganged up on for days including by the mods

for explicitly explaining the purpose of the game you guys fail to understand

[inland vigil]

If you're getting ganged up on or corrected by mods then you are the common denominator and should step back and review your behavior or wording instead of lashing out and claiming everyone else is the problem

[torn lagoon]

its a roleplaying game

[lilac bolt]

what????

[torn lagoon]

i said yes please everyone gang up on me lol

[inland vigil]

The isle is not a roleplaying game

[torn lagoon]

i asked for it lmao

the oposite of crying i am facing you all head on

everyone in the feedback has been crying about how they die to much

i am here to tell you why you die to much

i am sorry dying makes you cry but accept the reality of the game

itll keep you from being hurt about it

[torn lagoon]

just wow

where you play your role as a dino

lol

yes i love all the negative energy lol

thanks i feel welcomed

good people, i wonder if the mods will time you for being condescending but prolly not just me i supposed xD

[inland vigil]

I wish it was a roleplay game. I love to roleplay. I have played survival games where roleplay was a large part of it (such as elk herds having rutting periods during certain seasons or dire wolves hunting one animal and then leaving the rest of the herd unless provoked again, using calls to communicate and playing their role as a realistic version of their animal). That is roleplay. The isle is not because you are clearly a human on the other side of it and you are not trying to act as natural as the animal