general-feedback-discussion

[tame wing]

only semi-aquatic animals (beipi, deino) have an alt attack in the water because they are adapted to swim and move actively in the water, which others are not capable of. there are dinosaurs that weigh more than a ton and of course they will not be able to actively turn around and strike in the water

[desert arch]

Cera has an alt attack too

although its very slow

[tame wing]

then i do not know

[ruby quiver]

Waited 30+ min in que. Play 5-10 min. Disconnected from server. No internet issue on my end. Just "connection to server lost." 55% Deino sitting in the wide open. Hopefully not to be killed.

Solution: 2 min hold on server placement if random disconnection happens. If that would be possible, it would save a lot of headaches.

[zenith hazel]

It’s like your forgetting that every other playable can move freely while herreras can’t move on the ground as easily. Besides the random spawn thing makes it pretty difficult to find players let alone ambush them without them knowing

I’ve tried herrera at docks and been spotted easily because it’s already bad there, you don’t need to make it completely useless

[steel field]

@full pewter the screen bug is a problem with DLSS, its been a thing for awhile even before HT, you can fix it by turning DLSS off, tho your frames will likely suffer

[full pewter]

I normally don’t have it on but I’ll turn it off to fix it, thx!

[steel field]

[unreal ridge]

@full pewter thats just testing for split screen multiplayer

its called a horde test duh

😡

[full pewter]

I’m simply pointing out what should be fixed before release

[tight iron]

it needs to suck in teh ground

and 45 km/h with great agility is not sucking in the ground

[zenith hazel]

💯, my point is that it’s far limited than any playable

[tight iron]

at the expense of being immortal most of the time unless a canni herrera does the thing

[zenith hazel]

45 kmh gets outrun by most things. Big hitbox and low HP

[tight iron]

and having such a great ambush capacity that, most of the times, you can't hear or see it

so it definetely should not have the ability to climb on everything, it's already an annoying as hell thing by itself

[zenith hazel]

Wdym immortal. That’s like saying that omnis are immortal because they can sit on a rock all day

[tight iron]

cant be killed unless a canni herrera does the thing cause they are above anything else that might try to kill em

meaning they have the 2nd easiest life you can have (ptera has the easiest)

[zenith hazel]

Right. They eat and drink in the trees

[tight iron]

thats also what i was saying, they need to suck balls on the ground

[zenith hazel]

I’m not disagreeing with that

[tight iron]

of course

[zenith hazel]

But they’re not immortal bro😭

[tight iron]

i just dont find a great reason to allow them to also climb on metal

[tight iron]

immortal in teh sense of not dying at all unless attacked by another herrera

[zenith hazel]

Their ability is limited. Random spawns has made it even harder to ambush

[tight iron]

i cant disagree with the random spawns thing

overall theres probably like 10 big dinos, the rest are juvies dying over adn over in remote places

[zenith hazel]

Fun ig? No need to make such a well designed spot not useable

[tight iron]

fun for one person at the expense of ruining everyone else's

[zenith hazel]

Yup and you can no longer camp over bodies because the chances of someone coming under are extremely slim + you’ll end up starving yourself sooner or later

[tight iron]

absolutely

[zenith hazel]

Ruining who’s

[tight iron]

whoever gets killed

[zenith hazel]

How are they gonna get killed at the docks though. You can see them pretty clearly

[tight iron]

might not sound very logical, but dying to a herrera is probably the worst death imo

even more than deino death

[tight iron]

theres very nice ambush spots over there

[zenith hazel]

Omni pin is n1 no debate imo. Watching hours of progress slowly get deleted is torture

[tight iron]

at least you could've known it was gonna happen tho...

herreras, most of the times, cant be seen or heard

[zenith hazel]

Fair point

[tight iron]

no matter how hard you try, they are perfectly camouflaged

but i agree that being pinned sucks so damn bad

[zenith hazel]

Yup but in this case herreras can be more than seen, which is why I think docks should be climbable

[tight iron]

eh, depends on the place

[tight iron]

precisely today as a carno i stole the intestines of a fresh teno kill while the murderous raptors were close, they noticed and i got pinned down smh

i was a juvie so it wasnt, yknow, balls, but still

[zenith hazel]

The question is will your opponent be there

[tight iron]

i understand

[tight iron]

at this point, i can't really know

i only see people at east plains anyways

you can do laps around the map, it's dead

there is just... nothing

[zenith hazel]

Tbh I just want the docks to be climbable because of how great they are! Such a good looking spot shouldn’t go to waste imo

[tight iron]

i totally understand

[zenith hazel]

Nearly starved twice cuz of that

[tight iron]

theres usually ppl at sanctuaries

the northeast jungle one is probably teh most active from what ive seen

but besides that, good frickin luck finding someone

can go hours without seeing a single person

[zenith hazel]

Ngl, what we had before was better. Now it’s a walking simulator lol

Or AI hunting sim

[tight iron]

i dont know if it's better or not

i just know that people have lost the ability to survive

now it's actually complicated

[cosmic storm]

Don’t mind me throwing out random ideas that come to mind, #general-feedback message

[ivory sleet]

yea i tried it and it dont.

[desert arch]

Everywhere that wasnt east Ive only seen carno megapacks and dilos, idk how they are sustaining themselves but it scares me...

[dry falcon]

Bruh

[brave gale]

@red mica hey the 3 call animation and sound in legacy was actually insane, upvote

#general-feedback message

[red mica]

It truly was a call of all time

[brave gale]

I really liked the trend with them throwing their arms out, for all the dinosaurs

[mellow sphinx]

@cloud frost hahaha that showroom thing sounds like batman but dinosaur

[still sinew]

swamp water effect on land at;; 291,918.176, -75,159.986, 20,077.217 location.

[summer olive]

Oh yeah I had that too

[still sinew]

Hey dev team! You guys did an AMAZING job withthe new NV and the AI in the horde test! I feel so much more confident that I won't starve trying to traverse the map, explore, and have player encounters. They're not abuntant, but not soo rare that I feel disparaged. Keep up the great work! ❤️

[summer olive]

@glacial lily I think youve just experienced a bug thats not meant to be like that. I literally took down a full grown diablo as a 50% dilo with a full grown dilo friend yesterday, without being knocked down once. he did hit my tail once and it made very little damage.

[glacial lily]

was the dibble large?

[summer olive]

we do need more crab and chicken spawns tho, its almost impossible to find them when youre playing as a ptera for example

[summer olive]

yes as I said it was full grown. 100%

[glacial lily]

i've just had an insane amount of encouters that just seem so wild for it to hit me when it did, however the video i mention (wasnt sure if i could link it inthat channel) shows a pretty good example of the hitbox

[glacial lily]

can agree

[still sinew]

I definitely agree that there can always be improvements - I only seen 1 chicken in 2 hours, but the deer, boar, and taco have been decently spawning to a reasonable degree. I think the small critter need quite a buff in spawn rate - tho frogs I've noticed have been improved a little- and I'm glad of that for those species that need them :3

[summer olive]

hm yeah, I think theyll rework that anyways, but as of now it is easy to bleed them out when youre 2 players, since one can always go for the back, it takes the diablo a good while to turn around to hit you

[limber hull]

im not sure why the little guys spawn so infrequently, but I really wanna see more rabbits/chickens

[summer olive]

yeah thats true. frogs and tacos have improved. but all the other small bois are gone - reduced to atoms

[limber hull]

if anything, they should be more common than the boars and deers and whatnot

[summer olive]

yeah

[glacial lily]

that much is true, i just find it hard to pounce it's side when the hitbox is there too. but it also depends on skill levels

[summer olive]

[summer olive]

yeah its kinda a mix of both atm

however I do not want to talk of myself as a skillfull player, since Im pretty much a herbivore main, because I enjoy the peace it brings with it. I do have over 2k hours, but ive never been really skilled at fighting and stuff, as I mainly try to avoid that. most of the time im really lucky when I win a fight

[still sinew]

yeah fish hasn't been as abuntant as well I think - I know a lot of AI adjustments comes down to the devs not wanted to insentivise afk growing and then hot spoting, but that seems to be a consiquence of the genre :/

[summer olive]

yep

would be also neat to see more coconuts along all coasts of the map. there are loads of palms always but somehow mango does to appear more frequently than coconuts do

[still sinew]

I fully agree. IF the devs want to incentivize players moving around their frankly gorgeous map and not hot spot so hard - I think focusing on elements and mechanics that play on rewarding movement and exploration rather than punish sitting still would be more beneficial. After all players will always seek out what's most rewarding.

If AFK growing is any indication - players will choose to be bored over being punished.

I would relate AFK growing to grinding in an MMO - it might be boring and take forever, but there a nice payoff eventually- a dopamine hit of being a big bad something xD

lol wut?

40,307.601, 264,120.057, 27,414.905

[icy lion]

@sick gale That change already exists in hordetesting

[sick gale]

It seems to have only happened for babies. People tested adult stego vs adult cera and bile amounts per bite are still pretty large

[sick gale]

Charge bite filled the stomach about 25%

[limber hull]

bile across the board is too high in HT imho

[sick gale]

Either the puke amount needs to be less or bile should build more slowly. I know in concept you shouldn't want to mess with cera and it needs to be a tough bully. But its too fast with too much stam and too strong of an ability. Nothing can really counter it and cera players are only bothered by other ceras

[limber hull]

yea, agreed

it should absolutely be devestating to smalls, but right now even carno and teno are just instapuked by it

it should be designed around punching in its own size and down, not around stuff like diablo or stego, who it should simply avoid

[tight oxide]

honestly, would it be so bad if we got biome spawning instead of general location
each creature getting the options of what biome they normally strive in, would be random

[sick gale]

The god complex is real. Had 2 ceras come after 2 stegos without hesitation, last time I played. There should absolutely be some hesitation considering total weights

[limber hull]

yea, a lot of ceras assume their role to be this "diablo/stego killer!!!" playstyle

[sick gale]

Ridiculous. Maybe slower bile build up but longer presence on target? Like days. That way if you keep engaging a cera, you eventually pay for it. Smaller stam pool, too.

Give improved tracking on something they bit. But they'd have to trot it down

[narrow field]

#general-feedback message
That's what I'm saying! Idk how wip it is so far, but the force dismount is intentional and is in testing atm as Felipe said. I def agree with you tho

[barren crater]

erm you're forgetting teno!

[limber hull]

oh yea

[narrow narwhal]

@wide kiln #general-feedback message
they are on the Pteranodon diet and they need to defiantly be fixed and be alot louder. IDK where you are at to have to many of them around because they take forever to apear and spawn just like compy's to remove bodies
so far on the horde test i have not seen any ptero or compys

[barren zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/skillissue-skill-issue-gif-22125481

@wide kiln

[narrow narwhal]

@cosmic storm #general-feedback message
a species specific global chat might work, or it works like the local but broadcasts louder/further and uses a different call

[cosmic storm]

Sounds pretty cool to have it work like that

[narrow narwhal]

like how for some reason deino calls carry alot further than you would expect or want...

[urban flax]

@cosmic storm Global has been added back
To unofficial servers
It's not returning on officials

[narrow narwhal]

like mentioned, its Limited Global and i sugested it not to be fully Global but be louder and reach further than current local

[dim wing]

how do I send this big message as text instead of as a file? have I seen another person send a big message and it didn't bother him to limit the words? although I have to wait 6 hours anyway, I experimented, I assumed that there would be a slow mode, so I'll send it here for now

[urban flax]

But then it's a completely different suggestion
And I believe "shout" chat with longer range is planned

[dim wing]

this file is inconvenient to read

[urban flax]

Either you buy nitro, either you put it as an image

Oh wait it's a "devs are lazy and stego is OP" post
You should probably not post that in general feedback

[marble quail]

I kinda disagree because the devs are like a 10 person team and they work quite hard and saying they are just sitting on their money is just a lie, the devs work very hard to make sure the game is in good shape.

Also saying that working on certain dinosaurs is a waste of time is stupid

Just because you don't play them doesn't mean they don't need work or anything done with them

[dim wing]

I also said that I saw a lot of new players, I bought it myself at a sale, can't they hire more developers?

[marble quail]

It's not that easy

[urban flax]

There's more of them than that
But not many programmers
Like... 3 I think ?

[marble quail]

You can't just throw money at things

[urban flax]

And programmers are the hardest to find, especially for an already started project

[dim wing]

I understand, but this is my opinion on this matter)

[dim wing]

.

[dim wing]

That explains everything.

[marble quail]

But's it not an opinion, if the devs are working on it they are working on it no matter your opinion

[dim wing]

what?

[limber hull]

i read this entire thing and i dont think there's a single thing i agree with lol

[limber hull]

you forgot "smalls are bad and shouldn't be worked on"

[dim wing]

I don't care, as a consumer I want to express my opinion, I take into account that there are few of them, but I am not able to wait 10 years for the game, I want the best for the game and therefore I am disappointed

I am evaluating the product that is now available

[marble quail]

As of right now this is quite a good game

You can have a fun time if you try everything

You have like 20 playables that are all fun and unique

Complaining about it doesn't do anythin

Just be patient, more aditions are quite literally gonna be coming soon

Read the devlogs

[worthy delta]

The game SERIOUSLY NEEDS more AI to hunt. Its so annoying starving in a jungle that should be thriving with things to hunt.

[marble quail]

That is a very valid point

[vale pawn]

I just ss and paste them as images 💀

[marble quail]

Adding more AI is gonna be required when we have more dinos

[limber hull]

i think hordetest has the perfect amount of AI

[dim wing]

you can keep laughing, but I'm used to playing tarkov, I really loved this game and what I'm writing is not just for nothing, I want the game to develop and I would continue to talk about it if it were my language, it's a little complicated

I really think that my maybe a little toxic message makes the developers work and the community think about things that make sense.

[limber hull]

A little toxic message is more than common here lol

[marble quail]

Toxicity does not make the devs works

[narrow narwhal]

@barren zephyr #general-feedback message
try drowning. there is no suicide button for a reason

[marble quail]

It just makes them salty

[worthy delta]

I tried horde and yet again wandered around hearing animals but seeing no players or AI. Its really getting old. Devs need to fix that

[limber hull]

You'd be surprised how many people in the industry need to hear this

[narrow narwhal]

there are AI but they only spawn in certain "AI Zones" if you ask around people can tell you where some good spots are to find AI

[dim wing]

I disagree, this is the same as talking in the kitchen about what a bad country you have, at some point people will just explode, you can't keep silent)) It's just a game, but still

[worthy delta]

thats stupid. AI should spawn everywhere randomly.

[narrow narwhal]

im being honest and not mean at all. use up all your stamina and go into deep water

[marble quail]

Difference between this and political protest is that just not how to encourage devs

[worthy delta]

THIS. The AI is just so frigging NOT THERE. And dont say "skill issue" I have been playing off and on for three years and the AI is just abysmal there is no excuse.

[narrow narwhal]

it sort of did but they had to change it due to i causing server issues i think and also bloat of AI spawning in locations no one was at. in HT i beleive they have fixed some of the AI issues of them spawning inside of the ground

[limber hull]

there's a lot different about this and political protest LMAO

[marble quail]

Yeah they need to add more AI

[limber hull]

Do they really?

It feels abundant as hell in the current patch

Like in HT it's really easy to feed yourself off

[narrow narwhal]

more variety in the case of missing rabbits and chickens being rare and non existant

[marble quail]

True

[narrow narwhal]

god i wish it was everywhere...

[limber hull]

i've found goats, boar, deer, tacos, turtles, schooling fish, so on

[worthy delta]

I must be playing a different horde test. I was starving as a cera wandering around in the stupid constant rain unable to find anything or anyone. I really dont want to support this game anymore I really thought they would fix this stuff by now its ridiculous

[narrow narwhal]

schooling fish takes time to remember exact spots they spawn in. in the swamps flying around as a pt i only know a few spots that i have seen them and they also love to cluster ontop of eachother

[worthy delta]

no

[dim wing]

well, I decided to put it this way, I just got used to endlessly sending useless bug reports in the escape from Tarkov game, waiting a lot of time, believing in the developers, everyone rebelled there in the end, so that what made developers gave in some aspects in the game, moved development , We didn't have any more strength to tolerate some things

[limber hull]

it can regen while latching, so yes

[narrow narwhal]

they can now regain stam when clinging finaly

[marble quail]

Difference with Tarkov is this devteam are good people

[dim wing]

okey?

[marble quail]

That means they actually work on things and listen to the community

[dim wing]

even so, but I will not be silent about bugs with food that have not been fixed for years, thank God I have not played all these years and have not experienced it

[marble quail]

Dude Envirma has not been around for that long

And no expects you to stay silent but there is a difference between post bug reports and just calling the devs lazy moneygrubbers

[narrow narwhal]

i have the perfect location. NW of water access around that lake is alot of AI, Tacos on the East beach of the lake, fish and frogs there as well. alot of baby AI to kill for some snacks as well. Been there before the HT killing the babies and goats so the ptero spawn

[marble quail]

They still have fixed bugs and this game isn't not that buggy for a multiplayer game

[limber hull]

Because spawns are random now

[dim wing]

Oh, it must have hurt you a lot?) you're a person on the Internet, stop talking about it, I've written a bunch of other facts)

[limber hull]

It's been so much more fun without them imho

[limber hull]

You wrote a bunch of opinions lol

[narrow narwhal]

spread players out more but also hoped to have other locations to spawn than just their usual locations randomized
PT only having 2 random locations 💀

[marble quail]

Dude I'm just saying treat the devs with respect

They are people two

[dim wing]

Are dinosaurs literally unable to interact with each other here? It's like in a racing game, your wheels would fly away

[limber hull]

what

[marble quail]

Yes they can

[dim wing]

i wrote about it

[dim wing]

It's not a question.

[limber hull]

"why not just everywhere random spawn"

again, what

[marble quail]

You used a questionmark

[dim wing]

I'm sorry, you have almost no sarcasm in the English sense

[dim wing]

what am I talking about lol, u understan everything literally)

[marble quail]

Not how sarcasm works

[dim wing]

Whatever you say bra

[narrow narwhal]

i think @limber hull can make a clear list on why the devs do not want a suicide button

[limber hull]

suicide button unneeded

[limber hull]

i COULD but it's messed up that you'd delegate that responsibility to me

[narrow narwhal]

tbh you would word it alot better than i would

[worthy delta]

what even is the general timeframe for a complete finished game? Is this game gonna be in development til 2090 when humans get added? Im not trying to be rude I just dont get what their timetable is.

[marble quail]

It's kinda hard to make one

[worthy delta]

how big is the dev team? Why dont they crowdfund to hire more people and get stuff done faster? I just dont get how the dev team works? Is it a company? Is Dondi just bankrolling this himself?

[narrow narwhal]

works like standing. have to be above 20% stam

[marble quail]

Dev team of about 10-15, they don't want to hire more staff because they want it done their way

[narrow narwhal]

same as any other creature that uses up their stam tbf

[marble quail]

And not sure whether they are doing this while also having jobs or the money they earn from the game is used to pay for devteam wages

[narrow narwhal]

slow elevations holding W, try not to use spacebar.

look strait ahead and hold W and look up untill you start to flap or look down till you are not and re adjust up, the higher the angel the more stam is used

yeah that happens, speed problem / bug. if i want to restart as a pt i drain my stam flying up and then hold z/air brake and free fall into water, if the fall does not kill me then i will drown quickly due to injurys

[gloomy breach]

@hollow mirage do you mean 4th?

[tight iron]

about 25 to 30 devs

[tight iron]

nope, 25 to 30

a good bunch of em aren't in this discord, they can choose to be here or not

[marble quail]

Still they are a relatively small dev team

[wooden agate]

#general-feedback message @frail prawn it has more lines options than it does S or dots lol

lines is arguably the easiest diet to get for herrera because you have almost every option on there

[frail prawn]

I normally struggle getting those because either goats are all gone or just cant find it, but maybe so, either Taco on S and Dilo on lines or vice versa is nice.

But maybe so, I was thinking of how easy it was to get S because of all the Omnis lmao.

[wooden agate]

taco cant go on S, and again we have like 3 AI and 3 playables on lines already

[frail prawn]

Whats wrong with adding more? As time goes on and more playables are added along with AI why not add more options?

I see that for all classes, no point in being left behind in options for food.

[vague geode]

#general-feedback message
Due to the incredibly tough competition now with other similar dinosaur games allowing save slots for creatures, it’s inhibiting thousands, yes I said thousands, of people choosing to play this game over others.

Our discord server used to be incredibly known for just the Isle. It only relied on the isle, heavily.
Nowadays people would rather have the choice that day to play with friends or not and still not have to find some kind of way to off your dino, which in itself is a terrible game design that you can’t delete your creature slot. I’ll ensure to suggest that as well. But now thousands of players that switched to check out the other similar dinosaur games are used to having slots, this game isn’t going to be able to compete. I really hope the suggestion gets considered as I’d love to play, but I will not be touching it without slots or a respawn/delete button like the other games have.

[limber hull]

You're under the impression that all dinosaur games need to follow a single design philosophy, which is simply not the case. The Isle actively advertises itself as hardcore, immersive and brutal. You don't get a fallback creature or a safety net like how PoT or BoB provides, as both those games actively advertise themselves as more arcadey and far less hardcore (which is purely the choice of the devs)

The Isle doesn't want that, it wants you to be unable to revenge kill, and it wants growth/death to mean something. Slots have their own list of downsides (mainly being clans/revenge kills/etc), but they're circumvented by said games often have death be less punishing comparatively to The Isle

Different design goals. BoB and PoT don't have nearly the same emphasis on hardcore survival, but they're far more arcadey

Different strokes for different folks

[vague geode]

Surely it can be a toggle option.
Either case, it’s still a fact the player base they had is now used to the other games functions such as this. It will inhibit the growth of this game.

On our servers we monitor them to ensure there’s no targeting. Those games now keep our server alive while The Isle is now a barren wasteland.

I have so much to thank the isle for. I won’t go into it unless I must but I’m indebted to it.
However, I’m voicing what I’m witnessing and hoping it’s considered for the sake of the longevity of the game.

If not, that’s fine. I’m not playing then and surely that’s ok 👌

[limber hull]

"It will inhibit the growth of the game"

If people prefer the less hardcore nature of BoB or PoT, more power to them, but sacrificing the niche you have in the genre is unwise, because now you're no longer standing on your own merit, but conforming to norms, making you blend in with your competition, rather than stand apart

[vague geode]

Unfortunately the demands are changing

As in the natural world, the gaming world must also change too. Unless there’s nothing The Isle wants or can do, then ok! Thats on them /nm /lh

🤷‍♀️

[limber hull]

Are they? The Isle remains with a consistent playerbase who appreciate its hardcore appeal, and remain loyal to the game despite competition. Those who do not like The Isle's design philosophy leave for more casual experiences like PoT or BoB, which is FINE. It's their own free choice to do so, that's the nature of existing in an otherwise limited market. PoT and BoB open up new avenues for the genre, but should not be taken as the "requirement" to exist within said genre

[limber hull]

IDK what the hell nm or lh mean lol

[vague geode]

How much compared to 5 years ago?

[vague geode]

They mean not mad and light hearted ❤️

Or well 8 years ago

[limber hull]

Actually, the average playerbase has only risen with time

There existed a boost, but it was short due to a popular set of streamers making content

[vague geode]

It doesn’t seem that way? Really? Could you point me to the graphs?

Since steam and etc keeps logs of these surely

When I checked it’s not competing with the other games well

[limber hull]

steady increase. It's well above BoB, and PoT, I have no idea

[vague geode]

I can’t see, my poor eyes, what’s the rough number?

Then I can show this to the server.

[limber hull]

most spikes are due to streamers

[vague geode]

Thank you!

[vague geode]

My suggestion and advice still will not change but I’ve shared the graphs with our community

[odd shell]

they should add dinosaur shitting like the horses in red dead 2

[hollow mirage]

Well I mean: The first (nested) generation 3 mutations, Second generation 6 mutations, third generation 9 mutations + 3 mutations you can choose till adult.

[azure ruin]

@tawny pendant #general-feedback message they already do

[tawny pendant]

No, you can see your dino is tired. The others is hard to see.

[azure ruin]

Really? I've been able to see and hear when other dinosaurs are tired. They breathe heavily when being chased, their calls are raspy and they do breathe rapidly.

[shy geyser]

One of the biggest bugs is loosing my prefered diet. Has been happening on all of my dinos. Can really loose alot of progress for a stupid glitch.

[icy lion]

You can still gain nutrients when that happens, it's just harder to find them

Also, you can use #🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞 to report bugs

[tight iron]

@silent karma it does disappear when nobody's talking

at least that's how it's supposed to work

[silent karma]

it doesnt work for me

[vale pawn]

I dont think its doing that anymore in hordetest

[cyan flame]

@queen ember Shouldn't that be the raptor jumping off before it gets bucked off? Why should it not be punished for not reacting in time like it should?

[urban flax]

I'm wondering the same thing
I haven't tested the new hordetest, but raptors can just dismount when they see their target starting to buck, right ?
Or is the throw off effect instant as soon as the animation starts ?

[queen ember]

It’s random chance

And bucking really has no downside

But the last thing you wanna do is nerf the person bucking

[cyan flame]

That's very odd. I'd have thought it would be something like "after full cycle, you get thrown off as if out of stam", giving the raptor time to react and get off before the cycle is done.

[urban flax]

Oh damn

It's got to be changed before full release

[queen ember]

I think random chance is fine

[urban flax]

It's awful

[queen ember]

I would prefer getting bucked off to not be just an instant death sentence

[urban flax]

Unless you have a game that is fully designed about being random, making anything random is bad
RNG is bad

[queen ember]

Well you have three options

[quick maple]

#general-feedback message play the game, go and find stuff to interact with

[cyan flame]

Disagree, if you do get bucked off, you should not get away from that. You have the full ability to jump off before that happens, why not just do that?

But RNG is terrible, it should not be a thing, it should be a "after x time/cycle", you will be forced off, if you haven't jumped off on your own first

[queen ember]

1: nerf to bucker and it feels unfair to get raptors off

2: nerf the raptors where bucking is a free win button

3: bucking is made to not be a punishment to either side.

[queen ember]

I would say it makes sense in this scenario because if it was let’s say a set time before you get off people would abuse it. Get off just before it finishes

So the rng makes it more risk reward. Stay on and get more damage/bleed off

Or risk getting flung off

[cyan flame]

But there's no risk in being flung off?

If it's the same as a normal dismount, then you're not risking anything

[queen ember]

The risk is you getting off. That saves the prey time they need to focus on getting away or defending themself. You now need to re apply a pounce

Don’t punish one side

The raptor can choose when to get off whenever. Bucking should be made to force the raptor off at some point without being a free kill for bucker

While I’m bucking that’s time for other Raptors come on and pounce me

As a raptor I can choose to stay on and keep the target busy for as long as I can, or get off

[cyan flame]

If you choose to get off in time, you won't risk anything. I'm not at all seeing how it's unfair or a punishment to say "if you hang on until you're forced off, you hung on too long, you get punished". You would still have time to get off from when the target starts to buck to when you're forced off.

There shouldn't be a "risk" of getting off, bucking should be an absolute "get off right now" moment. That's kind of the thing.

If it's just a normal dismount, there's no risk, there's no "I need to jump off before it's too late"

Why not just hang on until you get forced off, you'll be safe, you don't risk a thing

[cyan flame]

And how are you supposed to prevent that then? And if you don't, where do you get the ability to get away and/or defend yourself? Why would the raptor not just hang on until forced dismount if the dismout is safe? You lose nothing as a raptor by doing so. You're not risking anything by keeping the target busy, that's the problem. So yes, being bucked off should be a "free kill" for the thing bucking, you risked hanging on too long, you got punished.

If you know you're safe even when being forced off, what's the incentive to jump off before being forced off?

[tame wing]

#general-feedback message @warm jungle Austroraptor

[warm jungle]

Austro!!1!!😍

[urban flax]

We also have hypsi and beipi which are feathered already

[tight iron]

feathered utahraptor at some point will come

[barren zephyr]

Why do people dislike the idea of 'territories' ? Would love to hear reasons, asking out of real curiousity!

[cosmic storm]

Ah, a mildly unhelpful and unhealthy response which doesn’t fix the issue any more than the request.

[warm jungle]

True but having some dinosaurs that are decently stated and stand a chance in the ecosystem / not being one shot to everything else would be nice^^

[warm jungle]

Gah!! Cannot wait!!🥺

[cosmic storm]

#general-feedback message actually, yes, resizable hud should be a thing already, why isn’t it?

[icy lion]

Because there's plans to completely redo the UI

Ideally it'll be way more customizable

[cosmic storm]

Fair enough then

[carmine path]

Does anyone know what the overall changes to the map were for the hordetest?

[cosmic storm]

#general-feedback message I don’t understand the reason or motive behind this but I’ll give it a positive vote for the simple fact it’s beyond my understanding since I only see black void either way.

[shrewd thicket]

FIX THE DAMN RAIN

RAINS EVERy DAMN DAY AT LEAST TWICE FOR 20+ MIN

USE YOUR BRAINS

AND MAKING IT SO LOUD I CANT HEAR MY OWN DAMN THOUGHTS

i wanna know how adding it like this was at all a good idea or where they thought it would go when it also frame drops everyone like crazy

[rough wind]

haha rain go SPPPPPPPHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[azure ruin]

Have you tried saying "please"?

[worthy delta]

MORE AI SO YOURE NOT RUNNING ACROSS THE MAP STARVING FFS

[limber hull]

there's literally tons of AI what

are you on hordetest

[lilac bolt]

yeah there is ai literally everywhere?

[worthy delta]

no i dont like horde its literally raining constantly. And are we playing the same game? There is not AI "everywhere" thats a straight lie

[lilac bolt]

there is though? unless they just don't spawn at certain places but i haven't had trouble finding any ai personally. Yeah the rain is pretty constant would be better if it was more rare then it happening all the time.

[waxen moss]

Maybe they are testing the weather for bugs or Server performance.

[lilac bolt]

probably

[wooden cipher]

wasnt it in game before already?

[wintry whale]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1256377694380232714/1256377858293497877/rule10.gif

[knotty swallow]

shhhh none saw anything

[wintry whale]

Lol

[barren zephyr]

I like the idea of territories, but I think it should be something that is more passive and entirely player managed, than an actual system. Both carnivores and herbivores should be able to have territories as well

[wooden agate]

@karmic isle it still happens

[karmic isle]

oh lol I guess I didn't realize

is it just for full envenomation?

[barren zephyr]

@agile stirrup I say they rehaul ptera completely

[agile stirrup]

idk if it needs a complete rehaul, but when i first started playing and i envisioned ptera, it wasnt this lmaao

ptera is just in general lame asf to play rn. nothing to do but fly around in comparison to herra which is way more fun bc it has ways to actually feed itself

[sage plover]

#general-feedback message @topaz epoch I would assume thats because before the weekend fillipe asked people to join NA 1 and NA 3, I would guess that whatever he did for NA 3 didnt work and made preformance worse, but NA 1 has great ping and its full, so ig fillipe found something that works

[bronze vector]

@vivid hollow As it is right now (as far as I know) dilo hallucinations have a hard time spawning near water, in tough terrain (steep hills and such) and on bridges. Waiting for the devs to add the "new hallucinations" that they teased a long while back.

[chilly ermine]

@leaden prism I think the solution to the ptera vs sea turtule is baby sea turtles heading to the ocean that fade away once they get in the water

[leaden prism]

That or like all the other creatures getting bby duplicates, give bbies that coast on top of the water? Would give bby Pteranodon's something to peck at early on since carbs is fish and they already have carbs starting out.

[chilly ermine]

well, according to the interweb, bb sea turtles hatch at night typically. So it would make sense that they would spawn at night, several at time. They could give small amounts of diet but have several in the same place. Seems to make sense to me...

[leaden prism]

Could work but you're screwed if it's daytime if we apply 100% realism to it. Which... I don't think we are with our current AI since fish/frogs seem to spawn if you exist in water atm, bbies just scramble instead of sitting in a next or being near their parents, and etc.

[chilly ermine]

right. Well, I think bb turtles would be great, could comb the beach for them and if you find a nest it could be a decent chunk of diet

[leaden prism]

^

better than spending 2 years chasing the singular turtle lol

Adds to the vulture vibe for it too

[dry falcon]

#general-feedback message
the only complaint i have is just thats a lot of work

[limber hull]

it'd also be an absolute performance nightmare

[dry falcon]

most likely the devs will take their time with something like that as it requires separate models for each body part to be detach

[dry falcon]

organs are enough for now i think 😅

[wispy jackal]

meat chunk lag is already horrid LMAO

[dry falcon]

yeah

[hidden mist]

Compys need to work better at eating unattended meat tbh... They also completely ignore meat chunks in the current patch and all previous from what I know :(

[elfin thorn]

Hey, is it me or is everyone having like 200 ping on the horde test today?

It was fine before but today it's literally unplayable because of the rubberbanding

[wooden cipher]

is the storms still same at horde?

i mean the rarity of them

[hidden mist]

Frequent. Almost every 3 days there are storms, light rain is literally everyday.

[spring sapphire]

i have started playing Evirma again and are wondering why everytime im lying down some dible or cera come and kills me? i just lied down moments ago and out of the blue 3 ceras come and start biting me, i had ran for a long time before that and it happens a little to often to be a coincident. is there something i do wrong? i have been playing as baby Carno and a adult Dilo, and i have been lying in bushes. I appreciate the help:)

[hidden mist]

Did you play on NA servers? Live Build? You didn't have bleeding/meat near you?

[tight iron]

more like each day theres a storm

[cosmic storm]

Who cares if it’s a lot of work, they were crazy enough to remake the entire game from scratch, they could pull it off.

They might not be the most competent with their skills and could probably do better but they pulled that off, which is a lot of something.

[hoary drift]

Its 1 step forward and 3 steps back for this game. Big thoughts but little process leads to a failing player base that is slowly getting more upset over the years with the incompetency. A small flash in the pan update holds us over for like 3 or 4 weeks and then its back to the monotony and dull bugs that are if ever fixed, sidelined for new shiny things.

[cosmic storm]

Where’s all that time going? If they’re not working on bugs, then I can’t think on what they would be working on.

Shiny things are easier to produce than this.

[hoary drift]

which is a sad reality, Why fix the current state of the game when you can add new things that just break it more

[cosmic storm]

That’s the issue, they have to be fixing the game for the amount of time between updates to make sense.

[hoary drift]

I'm being pessimistic of course but it just never ends for this game. I'd love to see the effort that POT gives to its community, Im sure there's 1million things behind the scenes that make this infinitely more hard to grasp than what it is, but it's just tiring after playing for years.

[opaque panther]

I'm not sure if this is the right channel but, is it known that this pattern for Herre isn't working ? When I play, it gives me the pattern B instead of C. :/

Shame cause it looks really good like that.

[hoary drift]

i'd say more just the feedback one, but it'll get noticed here regardless i'm sure.

[tribal dirge]

@robust fractal honestly a you problem, no clue how you're having difficulty playing the game with a 4090, maybe your cpu or ram aren't good enough? Idk

[cosmic storm]

PoT gives a lot of effort for the wrong (based on it’s original desires) crowd ngl. The game is kinda boring and overrun with boring players, realism simply doesn’t exist in that game despite it’s desire for such, and with new updates they just stopped caring about realism and started making stuff for MLP fans who became interested in dinosaurs (which isn’t a bad thing, but definitely isn’t my cup of tea)

And BoB is less popular than The Isle (which I’m sure will change as soon as Legacy is removed)

[robust fractal]

Id reply by telling you how my pc can run black myth wukong on max without issues but your name says it all tbh

:>

[cosmic storm]

Damn, that’s a joke I used a while back on someone else, lol

[hoary drift]

POT never interested me. I stuck with the recode because realism and survival was such an adrenaline rush, while POT just seems like Dinosaur RPG with mmo elements mixed in. The amount of work and community integration is beautiful, though.

[cosmic storm]

I just wish The Isle could keep doing what it does without harming the playability and fun of the game.

[robust fractal]

Same

[hoary drift]

Fingers crossed that they make better efforts to actually outreach to us, besides just info dumping when they feel appropriate, and bugs are taken care of, before being sidelined for new interesting things.

[robust fractal]

I just wish it had faster updates. Every new addition gets completely and fully explored almost instantly, some old bugs fixed, new ones there, one dino added, one dino unplayable, its just too little too late everytime kinda. Game is gonna be finished by the time we have a city on mars at this speed

[hoary drift]

The game is popular, there's no doubting that. but it won't last without care. Here's to hoping it keeps upward on the amount of stuff we've been getting, along with fixes.

[hoary drift]

Which part of me knows isn't their fault, they have a small roster of people that actually develop the game, but damn man I'd rather have the game fleshed out and properly maintained before anything else new gets added, anymore. Hordetesting helps out alot at least.

[tribal dirge]

so can i, whats your point?

[cedar drum]

@unique mirage a growth stop… ability for a different player to halt the others progress… in a game that already tries its hardest to make you not grow… that is, not something I’d want

[unique mirage]

thats why you can choose not to activate it if you find it, i was thinking about staying at sub rex stage for example

[cedar drum]

Buddy, if players DO find it, they WILL activate it

[unique mirage]

oh i didnt mean for others i mean for yourself

[cedar drum]

Humans don’t grow

[unique mirage]

you unlock it for when you pick a dino

like you find stuff as a human and can use that in your dinos

[cedar drum]

So, end up with “sub apex” players again?

I’d prefer not

[unique mirage]

fair enough

[cedar drum]

The idea is… something… but the stop growth thing is just kinda eh

[pseudo slate]

the stuttering is insane on horde test

[tight iron]

@weary badger turn dlss off

works perfectly

[hidden mist]

Solution: buy a PC of 2500$ just for The Isle. Easy, isn't it?

[mild isle]

Additionally, NVIDA released a new update that fixes that problem almost entirely. The new nvidia update fixed it 9/10 but one time I logged on and had it glitch a bit. Also if you don’t update you can turn DLSS off for about 30m-1h and turn it back on and it works as normal occasionally.
The game looks terrible without DLSS lol

[tight iron]

i get 30 fps without dlss

it just dies 😭

[mild isle]

I get 15 without DLSS typically :/ or if it raises to around 25 the game’s graphics look terrible anyways despite the fps boost

[tight iron]

oh my

the game is just unplayable for me without dlss

[mild isle]

Yeah same.. glad to figure out it’s not an isle issue (at least not all of isles fault) because the nvidia update fixed it for me

[wooden cipher]

so how is the storms rn?

[mild isle]

Cuz if it was an isle bug yk that ain’t getting fixed anytime soon

[tight iron]

all the time

[weary badger]

thank you for this! will try when i play later

[tight iron]

🫡

[brave trout]

Damn that's crazy, nearly nobody is Hordetesting.
And it's undersatandable. The balance is whack, the bugs are plenty and the performances are horrid and server stability is gutted.

[rain pumice]

@vital laurel do you think they should add puns to that deaths bc that would be funny lol

Or jokes

[zenith hazel]

They gave Herrera new attack sounds, you’ll know if you died to one or not

[boreal briar]

The dang servers were crashing every 5 minutes when I tried around 3. I'm gunna wait for the next update... again. xD

[brave trout]

Let's hope so.

[vestal sequoia]

Both live version and hordetest are unbearably laggy it's unplayable

[hardy vine]

@bronze vector thats alot of ping they should fix, i usaually get 50-90 ping on ht am i lucky?

[drifting rose]

i like how ever time i give feedback thats actual feed back it gets taken down but "armored hippo" is legitamite feedback and shall stay up

[zenith hazel]

#general-feedback message

[limpid breach]

Dude same almost every time I complained about lag or fps or anything like that it gets taken down

It’s minmi it deserves to stay up tho

[limber hull]

why

like that's just bait at that point lol

[unique mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/fishing-swallog-prey-bye-gif-11429031

[limber hull]

oh my god mr carno is the only upvoter thats hysterical

[sage plover]

LMAO

[acoustic gyro]

performance is such a gamebreaking isssue I don't understand why it's not currently the frontline focus

literally prioritizing performance would make so many things more bearable

well mostly just hut registration, but that's pretty damn important in a combat oriented survival game

[slender wraith]

wait what happen to hordetest?

[mild isle]

Some (popular? Don’t remember) youtuber made an entire video on how Minmi mechanics would potentially break the game balance wise

I can attempt to refind it if you wish for the link just lmk

[rough scroll]

#general-feedback message This is simply an incredible idea, I hope they think about it sincerely, the trodon really needs some affection and I always wanted the objective of its venom to harm the physical well-being of its prey

[ivory sleet]

hey yall ive found some floating rocks and plants at swamp sactuary on EU3 no ai

[icy lion]

#🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞

[ivory sleet]

k ty

[ivory sleet]

i reported it

[ivory sleet]

what does horde shipping mean

like what makes that server different from the others?

[limber hull]

that's really funny but i cant imagine anyone unironically having that take

[mild isle]

I think it was something relating to poison? and basically it being.. not enough for minmi to function on it's own unless it was super op

essentially the video was saying how minmi would just be super bad ig

[limber hull]

are you thinking magy

because that sounds like magy, not minmi

[mild isle]

OH.. yeah you're right- I'm not sure what minmi is then LOL

[limber hull]

this little goober

[latent olive]

love this animal

the mad max

[icy lion]

YEAAAAAAAAAAA LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

the mimi

[vale pawn]

mii

[limber hull]

@mint snow there is no fracture RNG

it's pure math

[worthy delta]

The AI situation is still ridiculous. Just starved as a Raptor yet again running around chasing an immortal deer.

[solid perch]

@noble stratus I think that was us gg bro, also one of your buddies ran for his life at the end and abandoned you guys 😭😭💀 but yeah cera bacteria needs to be changed

[noble stratus]

Me and the freind that was in vc with me died ya we though it was kinda stupid that we were 1700kgs with full stomachs and through up in just one charge bite lol but gg you earned the food

[barren crater]

yeah it was dumb ngl. We were 700 - 900kg ceras as well

We should not be doing that

[noble stratus]

Wait you weren’t even full grown

[barren crater]

We were tiny

[solid perch]

no 😭

[noble stratus]

That’s… kinda nutty

[cosmic storm]

#general-feedback message god awful crashing noise
I wheezed

[worthy delta]

the whole AI hunting system needs a overhaul its terrible

[limber hull]

mystery

[limber hull]

i wonder what that message was

[unkempt comet]

@n... a prehistoric stary night with galaxies would be incredible, I hope they add that at some point

[latent olive]

whgat do you mean prehistoric

[limber hull]

isnt the current night sky already starry as hell

[cosmic storm]

This sky is modern, this is Jurassic Park, not Jurassic Period

[unkempt comet]

Yeah I guess with humans involved, it would be modern times. But a shooting star here and there would be awesome

[cosmic storm]

I have a few questions for yall;

1. Why is everyone against a death button? Like, is there a problem with a reset button for some reason?
2. Why do you people think Complexity & Punishment = Difficulty?

[wooden agate]

@wet cliff no

[wet cliff]

@wooden agateWhy not? Cera is punished since every other dino except dibble and stego are faster

[limber hull]

cerato is not meant to hunt much at all

its a scavenger

it isnt meant to be getting arbitrary ambush speed boosts

(and if they do add ambush, they'd need to buff the speed of every single herbivore to compensate, or nerf the speed of every single carnivore)

[wet cliff]

They can do it like 1 sec boost only. Not like in legacy when it held for ages

[limber hull]

you'd still need to modify speed values to compensate for that

it'd be a balance nightmare

not to mention how badly that mechanic impacted legacy balance

[wet cliff]

Skill issue

[limber hull]

balance issue

i didnt even mention any skill things to do with it either lmao

[cosmic storm]

I knew you would go against my opinion, I knew it, because you don’t care about having fun @limber hull , lmao

[limber hull]

"Fun for immersion" is such a vague statement. What do you want undone

[cosmic storm]

You hate AI because “it would ruin immersion”

You like the new nesting despite the fact is unusable

You support every error the devs make that hurts the game

[limber hull]

I like AI. Just not dino AI

[cosmic storm]

But the devs would love Dino AI, because it would allow them to make the ecosystem they desire so much

[limber hull]

Immersion is only one, minor reason I dislike dino AI. I have many more reasons that matter a lot more than immersion

[hidden mist]

What was about nesting? Why is it not usable?

[cosmic storm]

Try nesting in Evrima

[hidden mist]

I tried. I find it discouraging only because of 1. bugs, 2. lack of food sometimes.

[limber hull]

I often do. I make nests successfully and have a good time doing it lol

[hidden mist]

Other than that I’m fine. Oh and also the absence of Family Tree, I wan’t to know my descendants :(

[cosmic storm]

I doubt it

[wispy jackal]

i thought nesting was pretty decent so far in evrima but ive only been nested in a few times. With mutations is pretty cool actually and gives you something to do

[limber hull]

Good for you, but that doesn't make it less true

[cosmic storm]

Maybe often by The Isle standard

[hidden mist]

Aand hatchlings breaking the nest, yep that’s too.

[hidden mist]

Agreed.

[wispy jackal]

thats player error and people being jerks not the game/nesting being broken tho

as for Dino AI, while I miss the gimmicky AI Tenos that would stick to other tenos, it was buggy and it would just be an easy way for carnivores to grow (like afk growing in legacy)

[cosmic storm]

Then they could avoid goofy AI

[hidden mist]

They still could add so hatchlings are unable to destroy nest. They’re anyway too small for such things, so it’s kinda logical and brings positive side to both parties (parents and other children).

[limber hull]

If only it were that easy LMAO

[wispy jackal]

I agree with that

coding AI is a nightmare

[cosmic storm]

They recoded the entire game, they could learn GOAP for their AI and make it easier.

[wispy jackal]

what immersion does dino AI bring anyway

[limber hull]

Sacrificing server performance for immersive AI

[cosmic storm]

More immersion than being spammed by carnivores everywhere (the current ecosystem state)

[wispy jackal]

well people prefer the carnivore kits usually so thats why folks play them more I guess

[cosmic storm]

Know what no, you guys will argue against anything I say unless I prove my argument so I’m just gonna go make my own game instead.

[limber hull]

You'd... be spammed with more carnivores by giving them more food though?

[hidden mist]

If only devs didn’t decide to make herbis clunkier with each update, and were fast in adding burrowing/climbing for small ones.

[cosmic storm]

You clearly misunderstood the intention and thusly assumed the design in a way that is not true to the gameplay

[wispy jackal]

keeping herbis fed well is a pain, I think thats due to the lack of food in some migration zones tho

[hidden mist]

I sincerely would play little herbivores more if they’d have something unique besides their size, but for now… Yep. Alpha game version

[limber hull]

Except that's how it worked when teno AI was around, so it's not unfair to make that assumption

Massive carno megapacks feeding on teno AI

[cosmic storm]

It’s unfair to assume Alien Isolation is easy because video games often are power fantasies

[wispy jackal]

yeah it was easy to keep carnivores fed off the teno ai bc it barely fought back and had regular spawns

[wispy jackal]

huuuh?

alien is a completely... different game

[limber hull]

Alien Isolation? Power fantasy? Huh?

[cosmic storm]

You people are ridiculous

[limber hull]

You're bringing a single player experience with one exceptionally advanced AI and equating it to a 100 player multiplayer experience with the expectation of immersive AI for a variety of unique species

[wispy jackal]

I mean sometimes Omni has had some takes i dont agree with but rn im confused like him i think

[cosmic storm]

You are confused because what I said was misunderstood

[wispy jackal]

if large dino ai comes back, we will have a return of legacy where folks will play the biggest carnivores easily bc they can keep them fed with ease, we dont need that again, pls

[limber hull]

^

[cosmic storm]

Let me simplify it

Omni compared any AI attempt to the failed previous AI attempt

I thusly compared AI in many other video games to the AI in Alien Isolation

It’s an unfair comparison to say all AI attempts will result in reduced fun or immersion.

Omni implied that all AI attempts for The Isle will end the same way.

[wispy jackal]

the AI in alien is completely different bc Alien is a single player game, it takes out all the factors of 100s of players in one arena you cant use that as a counterpoint

[cosmic storm]

Yes, it is, but you missed the point the moment you spoke

[wispy jackal]

the AI in alien is outstanding, fantastic and realistic but thats not here

[cosmic storm]

Still missing the point

[limber hull]

(it's also unviable to assume it possible for this game given how AI impacts server performance)

[wispy jackal]

the dino AI we did have did not work, it was around for a while but it just broke the servers too much so its gone, idk if theyre still working on AI for the big guys (rex etc) but I hope its a long way off if we're forced into that again

[cosmic storm]

I’m not saying the AI of Alien Isolation is the AI that would be used, I am saying it is unfair to compare a failed attempt to a future attempt.

[wispy jackal]

they have more pressing issues gameplay and refinement wise to focus on

[jade robin]

What does Alien have to do with anything!?

[cosmic storm]

Omg you people are ridiculous

[wispy jackal]

I just dont get the point youre trying to make :(

this is a pretty small game dev team you have to remember that

[cosmic storm]

Yeah, I know, that’s why I don’t expect anything right now, I am making suggestions for the long term, something they can go ahead and think about later and go “Ok, that might not or might work”

It’s not a demand, it’s a suggestion, fix the game, it’s not a simple problem, it’s a complex one, but I am giving ideas like everyone else, I don’t expect anything to come of it, but I would expect the community to understand my words, except no one does so I might as well stop talking.

[jade robin]

generally a suggestion requires something a bit more specific than "immersion vs fun" with zero clarification on what your issue is

what sort of suggestion is "fix the game"

[cosmic storm]

I can’t clarify because in order to fix that issue they’d need to understand it themselves.

[limber hull]

especially when its explicitly written in a way to paint a narrative of "right vs wrong", when that objectively just isn't accurate to the situation

[wispy jackal]

ok, what do you think AI would bring to the game that is needed? Why do you want it? I think thats what ur argument is

[cosmic storm]

I don’t think you’d understand

No one has so far

[wispy jackal]

you could try instead of assuming, you havent said anything solid or cohesive on this at all

[jade robin]

its in active development and changing semi frequently if there's something IN PARTICULAR that bugs you then bring up that point "fun vs immersion" is a highly objective take
like i think you're saying you want more AI/Dino AI and that would be more fun for you... however that is LESS fun for me you need to make actual points not just vague statements

[limber hull]

Perhaps you're difficult to understand, rather than everyone else not being able to

[cosmic storm]

I said plenty cohesive, you just refuse to understand it

Maybe I am difficult, or maybe you refuse to understand what I am saying and make it difficult, regardless I’m done here

[wispy jackal]

anyway im glad we can agree that Dino AI would be bad right now :)

[jade robin]

this has got to be trolling.. for my own sanity

[wispy jackal]

also nesting is like 80% good so far

[cosmic storm]

You guys are trolling me

You can’t possibly be this ridiculous

[cosmic storm]

Right now, I can agree

[limber hull]

Calling everyone ridiculous for not agreeing with your viewpoint is, in itself, ridiculous

[cosmic storm]

They need more competency

[wispy jackal]

my brothers im confused

[cosmic storm]

The disagreement is fine, the clear misunderstanding is the part that’s the problem

I’m trying to be as clear as possible and you’re not easier to understand than me.

Maybe it’s because I don’t share the same mindset as a The Isle player who’s played this game almost religiously.

[wispy jackal]

I mean Ive played for a while but, I still dont get what you're trying to say. At all

Ive only come back recently myself

[limber hull]

I mean... neither do I? The Isle is my "I got nothing else going on" game, I don't hop on religiously. Most of the time I play games with mates

[cosmic storm]

Why is it the “I got nothing else to do game”?

I wonder why

Because I want it to be my “This is my favorite game” type game not my “nothing better to do game”

[jade robin]

I come and go every few patches see how I like things, if a current patch isnt something i super like I play something else, I'm enjoying the current patch so I've been playing a lot but that's just something that comes from a game being in development

[wispy jackal]

well, why isnt it your favorite game to play? what exactly are you wanting changed

[cosmic storm]

I want to be able to enjoy the game

[wispy jackal]

I play bc I like dinosaurs a lot and its fun to play with friends + i like fighting players

[cosmic storm]

I can’t be more specific than “it’s not exactly fun”

[limber hull]

Because I have lots of friends that like to play other games or do other things and I like spending time with my friends

[jade robin]

But WHAT is it that you actually dont like??

[wispy jackal]

I know Im going to have significantly less fun when the Allo comes in

[cosmic storm]

Legacy felt better. They’re going to get rid of that.

[jade robin]

generally I gravitate towards herbivores but when the teno AI was around it was so easy to keep huge packs of carnivores fed that the mega packs just weren't worth it and playing in the mega packs was boring so I stopped and I came back the other week to test out dibble and I'm enjoying things because despite the rampent mixpacking mega packs are defintly far less common

[jade robin]

but why did legacy feel better

[cosmic storm]

That’s an excellent question, how about you try to answer that, let’s see if you can even think why.

[wispy jackal]

I liked the environment of Legacy map more but Im partial to the pine forests and the cold feel rather than warm island map

combat in legacy was less nuanced. Most players played apex and it just became rex vs giga vs trike

[jade robin]

I'm not the one with the problem why don't you tell me what your issue is? Cause I'm starting to feel that you actually don't know what you don't like just that you don't like it and need to make sure everyone knows

[cosmic storm]

Legacy felt more free.

More wild.
More natural.

In a way, Evrima feels forced and artificial.

[wispy jackal]

legacy lacked sooooo much inner gameplay tho it was just... feed, drink... walk

[cosmic storm]

I knew you wouldn’t understand.

[wispy jackal]

nah i dont

[cosmic storm]

It’s not the lack of mechanics that was what made it better, Evrima has so much more interesting gameplay, but it lacks the freedom of Legacy and whenever someone wants that freedom, even trys to communicate the concept, everyone shuts them down.

[wispy jackal]

freedom of what? A larger dinosaur roster??? less to manage ingame???

[cosmic storm]

The issue is you don’t know what that freedom was.

[wispy jackal]

gosh, clearly i dont

[limber hull]

EVRIMA to me feels more free. I can't play legacy because I'm stuck in AI zones waiting for AI, or just kinda... sitting around.

Migrations for a time very much restricted on that freedom, but now I have patrols and feel like I have goals, which RULES

[cosmic storm]

None of you could understand because you play The Isle for a reason that’s not shared by the average player base.
I want to be a dinosaur, I don’t want to play a game where I am forced to feel like a dinosaur.

[wispy jackal]

Im interested to see the patrol zones in action myself

Ohhh you wanna roleplay as a dinosaur, like a cosy dinosaur simulator?

[cosmic storm]

No, I love the blood and guts

[wispy jackal]

oh but you dont wanna be forced with the blood and guts

[cosmic storm]

Correct, though I’m sure you misunderstood me

[wispy jackal]

I think what Im struggling to understand here, is that you found Legacy more "free and wild" because you were just A Dinosaur and now in Evrima you have much more to do to be that (nutrients, migration zones etc etc) is this right? you feel that its too much micromanagement ?

[cosmic storm]

I don’t even mind the micromanaging, but it feels in the way of the experience, it feels arbitrary. I love diets, I love migration zones, I love all of that, but I don’t love how forced it feels.

[wispy jackal]

well you could ignore it all and suffer

but if you dont like how it feels then sorry, but this is not the game for you

[cosmic storm]

It doesn’t feel like a dinosaur survival. It feels like a micromanagement simulator posing as a dinosaur survival.
Not because of these small details, but because these small details are in the way of the actual sights and sounds, there’s no world to investigate, there’s only panicking because my hunger is low.

[urban flax]

Herbivore diets have been oscillating between stupidly easy to maintain and plain chance-based and annoying
Carnivore diets have consistently been lame
However I believe there is a lot of room for improvement for hoth of them, and I don't think Legacy's complete absence of diets was better either

[cosmic storm]

This

I so feel that

Unpredictable and lame

Thank you

[wispy jackal]

of course there is room for improvement, I will not call this game perfect because it is not.
Herbi diets are suffering a lot of the time, i travel to MZs and theres only a fraction of food there

[urban flax]

Most survival games try to find a balance between difficulty and player enjoyment
That very thin balance hasn't been achieved in legacy nor in evrima yet, although I find we're closer to it now

[deep lantern]

Added another example of a vomit mutation Hypsi could have

[cosmic storm]

I don’t feel Evrima is closer, Legacy is closer but for all the wrong reasons

[wispy jackal]

incorrect, sorry

[urban flax]

Legacy didn't really pose any challenge to the player, unless they were playing one of the unviable species
For evrima, it depends

[cosmic storm]

Why Legacy was closer for all the wrong reasons

[wispy jackal]

but, you said that

[urban flax]

I feel things like Omni have a good balance between how hard it is to survive and how rewarding they can be (or they were last time I played omni)
Ptera has no issue surviving, but its diets are a chore to maintain and provide no sensible reward

[cosmic storm]

Omni is the only dinosaur done well for the carnivores tbh.

[wispy jackal]

Omni keeps being overtuned imo

[urban flax]

In my opinion, it's good that a game allows you some downtime to rest and recover. But if you don't ever feel like your life is endangered, it's not a good balance

[urban flax]

Yeah, it is
But its survival gameplay loop is the most interesting

[cosmic storm]

The issue is that I only feel stressed, the game doesn’t need to spam danger at you.

It needs to slow down a little I think.

[wispy jackal]

but its survival? thats the point

[urban flax]

Depends on what you're playing, really
Some animals are very chill and easy to maintain, like galli

[cosmic storm]

Uh, no? Survival doesn’t have a speed or pace, and in real life survival isn’t like this.

[wispy jackal]

the isle is pvp survival, players are actively trying to fight you, There are plenty of unofficial servers that have rules in place that will probably be more your speed

[cosmic storm]

Not to compare a game trying really really hard to be realistic to real life of course.

[jade robin]

I think you're forgetting its not JUST a survival game its also PVP also if you want to avoid danger all the time its as easy as walking into the trees - I almost never get found by anything if I just hang out there

[cosmic storm]

Cause I know some of you say “It’s a game not real life” oop there it is!

lmao

[cosmic storm]

Called it

[wispy jackal]

Kes didnt say that though? hello?

[urban flax]

Erm, The Isle isn't trying to be realistic
It's a sci-fi game before anything else

[cosmic storm]

Despite the videos The Isle devs post showing Realistic dinosaur behavior

What they want

[urban flax]

Immersion== realism

[cosmic storm]

No, but they think that

Otherwise they wouldn’t have made nesting so complex

It’s a bit too intense for the average player

[wispy jackal]

only one way to learn

[urban flax]

There's also a balance between realism and gameplay
Nesting isn't that complex

[cosmic storm]

If only it was about learning

[urban flax]

Legacy nesting was too simple

[cosmic storm]

But simple is sometimes better then overwhelming

Although your The Isle simps so you wouldn’t understand that

[jade robin]

I didn't say that??? I said its also labelled as a PVP game AND survival - its in a balancing act between fun, good survival and combat if they wanted pure realism they wouldn't have mutations like you can eat and magically heal, they wouldnt have unfeathered dinos I don't think the game is trying to be any one thing its trying to find a balance between different aspects of itself

[urban flax]

The Isle is going for a "reward through difficulty" design
When you make a task difficult, overcoming it becomes its own reward

[cosmic storm]

PvP yes
Survival yes
Achieves both? Yes
Did so when Legacy was popular
If it was about that they could have focused on other things.

[cosmic storm]

And that’s fine, when it’s fun

DarkSouls is fun and does that

The Isle still isn’t quite that

[wispy jackal]

I genuinely think that at its current state, the isle is not the game for you and thats fine

[cosmic storm]

You’re right, but it’s still better then the alternatives

I just want it to be better

[urban flax]

Fun is subjective
The few times where I attempted nesting, I enjoyed it

[wispy jackal]

everyone does but I dont think the devs are pushing the "Simple, wild and free" direction that you are after

[cosmic storm]

Not wrong

[cosmic storm]

No, they’re going all in on immersion no matter the cost

Thing is, I was more immersed in Legacy than I ever was in Evrima, and I don’t have the exact answer as too why

Maybe more random spawns might help

Maybe something else

I don’t have answers, only wants

[urban flax]

Imagination
Legacy gave you less (both graphics and gameplay-wise) so you had to fill in the gaps yourself
Evrima tries to be prettier and clearer, but as a result in needs much more time and polish to achieve the same level of immersion

[cosmic storm]

Perhaps imagination is what a game needs to be truly fun and at it’s best

[obsidian jetty]

I think I know what you mean, actually. Legacy didn't tell you what to do at all. Evrima can feel like a "follow the quest marker"-type of game. It tells you what to eat, when, where and for how long. Is that maybe the issue?

[cosmic storm]

That could be

[jade robin]

And hopefully with development it will get better but if you want something in particular then put it in the feedback channel with actual suggestions not just "Game is not fun for me fix it" write out specifically what your issue is and some ideas on how you would achieve a preferable outcome for you because just writing youre not satisfied isnt really going to accomplish anything - theres plent in legacy I preferred and theres plenty in evrima i prefer now but if theres something that makes the game unfun to me I'll write it out with examples (eg: why does a migration zone jump from one side of the map to the other forcing me to run all the way there - could this be fixed by making it switch to closer zones in order)

[cosmic storm]

I think quests are great, but I always did like side quests more

[cosmic storm]

My suggestion was partly a frustration with the fact I kept dying to ceratosaurus yesterday then got bored when I tried to grow a stegosaurus and waited like 2 hours to see no results with full diet.

But there’s a lot more complexity to the issue

[wispy jackal]

iirc stego takes 4-6 hours to grow to full?

[jade robin]

I liked that in legacy i could wander the map and seek things out wherever I wanted without starving to death but food was so easy to get that the 'need to eat' part of survival may as well not exist - In evrima I don't like being forced into MZ so I don't starve - personally I'd like to see more food spread around map but MZ has an abundance which you'd want for big groups or nesting (I haven't played the test so can't comment on patrol zones yet)

[cosmic storm]

Hit the nail on the head on that food and diet issue

I repeat freedom was Legacy’s strong suit

[jade robin]

yeah this I can agree with I essentially won't touch Stego or Croc cause the slow growth and sitting around is mind numbingly boring - small stego is essentially a free snack to carnivores so youre better off hidden but staying hidden for hours on end is boring - then opp MZ moved across the map my slow ass isnt making it there any time soon so guess i'll watch my diets slowly run out while I waddle over the map only to find the MZ has moved again once I get there!

MZ is good in concept just needs refining

[cosmic storm]

Yeah

[wispy jackal]

agreed, its probably my biggest beef gameplay wise right now I think

[cosmic storm]

Updated to include our conversation; #general-feedback message

Now more helpful than before

[wispy jackal]

Now I need sleep bc its 3am

[cosmic storm]

Aight

[deep lantern]

Any thoughts on the fifth mutation i addded to my list, is it good or would it be too much?

[cosmic storm]

Lmao “Please reconsider” gets an 11th X, #general-feedback message

[cosmic storm]

5 mutations?

Oh wait

No, no, I think it’s good

[deep lantern]

yea, the one about ideas for Hypsi's species specific mutations

[cosmic storm]

I like it

[deep lantern]

ok thanks 🙂

[cosmic storm]

Don’t know about others

[deep lantern]

I like that Ptera is able to get stam while it is clinging in HT. Though I wouldn't mind if that became a species specific mutation for Pteras, as well as Herrera in the future. I just think it would be more fun if you had to gain that ability through a mutation

[tight iron]

considering how awful ptera stam is, that ability was more of a necessity than a commodity

so it wouldnt make much sense to lock it as a mutation

it would be one of those forced mutations that you must get

[deep lantern]

Perhaps, i still hope you can get that ability through mutation with Herrera though, since that doesn't have to be a must for that one. Atleast to me

[tight iron]

i see

me personally, i dont think herreras should have the ability to get stam back while clinging

they're already dangerous as hell, unlike pteras, so forcing them on the ground is convenient

[ruby sierra]

You'll never have to rest on the ground, you can just find a safe spot to do so. It's just inconvenient to stay on a tree +10 min and then go to another tree that has a branch to rest on and then back to the original spot. At that point it's just waiting in a different spot so I can go back to waiting for some more.

[limber hull]

it makes sense on ptera, who can't actually move while latched, but herrera gets full movement to get itself up to a branch or high rock

[radiant nest]

@gentle rampart you can ask a mod in one of these channels to copy your deleted suggestion from the logs

[warm blaze]

@waxen moss the carno is good as it is, we remove the 2 bars to charge and now you can charge indefinitely and your stamina does not go down much and you want to add a damage multiplier it's not good enough as it is ?

[waxen moss]

the Carnos charge alr got an damage nerf to its charge from 275 to 175 and you can still hear the carno from a distance you can dodge the charge and escape to the forest and a raptor can take 3 charges and still live.

[zenith hazel]

The devs are prioritizing realism tbf

[radiant nest]

Realistic feeling

Too many people confuse that with accuracy

[native hatch]

#general-feedback message I have no idea why there is such a importance placed on making the stamina economy so grueling, the map is plenty big enough without it.

Like Gateway is significantly larger than V3 and simultaneously everything is slower and has worse stamina regeneration

So the ratio of time spent in effective down time, either walking incredibly slowly or sitting down to the time spent where you can freely move about the game world or sprint to where you want to go is massively skewed towards the idle waiting time

And it's tripled down on by the fact that generally food and water meters are shorter than they used to be too so you are incentivized to use what time you do have with stamina >50% just managing meters

Ultimately producing the opposite effect to the desired long term goal of getting people to stop afking or alt-tabbing for long periods of gameplay because now people aren't just afking to grow but afking to regen stamina too

[tight iron]

food and water timers are longer than before

but yes i agree with everything else you said

[native hatch]

Many things went from 60m+ food and 60m thirst to 45min food and 30 thirst

Literally halved

[tight iron]

not so sure about that

[zenith hazel]

Yea that’s what I meant. They’re aiming for that right

[radiant nest]

mhm

[native hatch]

Isle wiki evrima timers are diff from the quick start guide site, going off the quick start guide site though for evrima timers and comparing to the isle wiki for legacy stats of returning creatures it still seems like timers were at least not made longer or were made a bit shorter across the board

[tight iron]

i mean legacy n evrima are two different games

[native hatch]

It is what I have been using as my point of comparison, it's not so different you cannot make comparisons

And my point arguably stands regardless of the differences, if anything they make my point for me

Bigger map + slower base speed + slower and more punishing stamina regen + faster meter decay = significantly more 'dead air' idle time and time spent doing busy work

[cosmic storm]

@torn river no appreciation for nostalgic folks like myself,
i cri

@zenith hazel I think all diets need reworking tbh #general-feedback message

[zenith hazel]

Yea our current system works kinda well with herbis imo, but it’s atrocious when it comes to carnis

[torn river]

Yellow ugly

[zenith hazel]

Dosent fit their playstyle

[cosmic storm]

Yeah, diets kinda weird

[cosmic storm]

But u don’t have 2 b ugly, let me have my nostalgia pwease

[torn river]

No

[cosmic storm]

i cri

[native hatch]

Having perfect diet is most important (arguably) when growing but also hardest to get while growing??? 🥴

[torn river]

[cosmic storm]

lol

[native hatch]

Assuming you don't get lucky and find something for S and Lines one right after the other when you spawn it necessitates pvp

Or blobbing in a hotspot to pick scraps, encouraging hotspot behavior for players to succeed

https://tenor.com/view/the-dark-crystal-dark-crystal-emperor-emperor-dying-dark-crystal-emperor-dying-crumble-gif-18039217594714027027

[brave trout]

I heard Herbies's NV was terrible for hordetesting, I didn't try it my self but I can tell Deino's NV is.. abysmal underwater

I know it will get worked on but thought I'd mention it

[faint folio]

I think a system like Green Hell's macros would work well. All meats give at least one nutrient, and which nutrients they give, in what ratio and hard quantity determines your "preferred" diet, not a prescriptive list

Could work for herbivores too

And that ratio for say, a goat, could even be different for a raptor than a carno

[boreal dove]

This would be amazing

[cosmic storm]

This sounds great

[limber hull]

wouldn't that make keeping track of nutrients even more difficult

because now you have to systematically remember the nutrition provided by every single creature in the game

[cosmic storm]

He explained Green hell wrong, it would work the same but you wouldn’t have the issue of accidentally filling 2 different hexes with the same bonus.

Same as the current Evrima

At least that’s what I think they mean cause otherwise it doesn’t make any sense

[limber hull]

personally, i dislike the idea of all food granting nutrients, kinda makes it too easy imho

[cosmic storm]

The Isle devs had to add mushrooms cause it was too hard

[limber hull]

what

[cosmic storm]

I’m arguing against your point, just understand my words please

[limber hull]

what do mushrooms have to do with anything

[cosmic storm]

What I am saying is sanctuary is because new players were having a tough time, the mushrooms were added to give them a boost.

[limber hull]

The mushrooms were added to provide a reason for juvis to head there rather than directly to migration zones

If they weren't the way they were, no one would go to sancs

[cosmic storm]

Why were sanctuaries made though?

[limber hull]

make the juvi experience less punishing and help the slower animals have somewhere to go shortly after spawning to not instantly be at a disadvantage due to the addition of migrations at the same time

[cosmic storm]

Exactly

[limber hull]

the mushrooms weren't added because the nutrients were too hard. they were added because without them, many animals simply would not be able to actually attain a diet due to their abysmal speed and distance from MZs

[cosmic storm]

But they allow you to cheese the nutrients system and fill all 3 types, why is that? Why not have a diversity of plants that do 3 instead?

[limber hull]

because sancs are small, and the time spent there is limited. they are a headstart, not designed to be the basis of a permanent diet

[cosmic storm]

Like say, what if blue mushrooms did lines, red mushrooms did S, and yellow mushrooms did dots? Would that not be better for the system?

[limber hull]

having to find all 3 nutrients in the sanctuaries would create a situation where they get ignored

[cosmic storm]

Would they?

[limber hull]

well, that just adds tedium for tedium's sake

there's no advantage to that besides making people scour the labyrinthian design of sancs

[cosmic storm]

Would it be easier to walk half way across the map rather then to the closer location?

[cosmic storm]

Then why are there diets?

To stop people AFK growing, which goes against what sanctuaries promote leading back to why isn’t there different types of mushrooms which brings us full circle

Hahaha! I made a loop

[limber hull]

adding two extra mushrooms doesn't prevent AFKing though?

[cosmic storm]

no, but diets were designed to prevent it

[urban bear]

Gives them something more to find though rather then eating a couple sets of mushrooms that give them everything

[limber hull]

It just means no one is ever going to eat the mushroom which gives carbs, making one of the mushrooms useless, and then with the other two will just be 2x the effort we have

[urban bear]

If they spawn close to the sanc they will have no choice

either way the root problem is diets

[cosmic storm]

Exactly

[limber hull]

which is why we're getting a rework to them

[urban bear]

Long overdue

[cosmic storm]

But how long?

[urban bear]

After the first few months of them being out they were already pretty hated

[cosmic storm]

How long before the fix the problem? And will it make the game monotonous or will it make the game fun?

[urban bear]

I think if we want back to the days of be able to fill each nutrient up to like 200% things would be better

[urban bear]

I mean we can't get more monotonous from here

The main thing that needs to be eliminated is passing up food because you dont want to mess up your diet despite starving

it makes 0 sense

[cosmic storm]

We can, we could be forced to do quests to grow throws casual shade at PoT

lol

[urban bear]

Lets hope that never happens lol

[limber hull]

if you do that, that's on you lol

[cosmic storm]

The Isle devs vision definitely would never result in that.

[urban bear]

If I have 2 of the 3 nutrients I am not about to eat the next thing unless I get perfect diet

The system directly encourages that since if I eat that and don't have all 3 I grow slower

[cosmic storm]

Starving is less fun then resting tbh.

[limber hull]

and if you starve, that's on you

[urban bear]

It is but I should not be encouraged to pass up a meal so I can possibly get lucky and grow faster

[cosmic storm]

It’s also on the system for promoting silly behavior

[urban bear]

The values between hunger and actually keeping your diet are bad, 90% of the time they are not balanced and you are waiting around for hunger to drain to fill the diet, that has to go

[cosmic storm]

“Players will optimize the fun out of the game” as some have said

[urban bear]

Players will do anything they can to make the game less fun

[cosmic storm]

As long as it makes it easier

[urban bear]

exactly

and thats kinda what happens with diet as a result of their design

[cosmic storm]

But when a developer aggressively pushes against it, it creates even less fun

They need to be more subtle and strike at the root of the problem instead of the byproduct.

[urban bear]

the slots are always out of balance and the activation at 100% is silly and makes them tedious to get

There needs to be a balance struck where diets are hard to get but also not tedious to get like they are now. It should be a fun and organic process, making you move around the map without it feeling annoying like it can right now.

[cosmic storm]

AFK growing is a byproduct of monotony of playing before reaching adult. Diets are good but not for the reasons it was implemented.

[urban bear]

Agreed

They do some stuff right like moving players to migration zones

but they fall short in enjoyability at times

mainly when it comes to actually filling them

[cosmic storm]

Yeah

Which brings me back to why red mushrooms are bad design.

And we come full circle

I made a loop again! lol

[limber hull]

red mushrooms are no worse than migrations or patrols lmao

[cosmic storm]

So you agree the entire system is flawed

[limber hull]

if the goal is to have sanctuaries provide all nutrients, then the number of mushrooms doesn't matter

[urban bear]

Red mushrooms just bypass the whole diet system for no reason

The whole point is to have playes search for their diet to keep them moving yet red mushrooms hand them all 3

[limber hull]

they're temporary and specific to one area that exclusively exists for juvis. Adding two new mushrooms won't change yout thoughts. You're still within a tiny sanctuary and not moving much where any creature that isn't a juvi or troodon can reach you

[cosmic storm]

For someone with a major in game design you must understand it’s bad design to arbitrarily ignore a system.

I’m starting to question your expertise Omni.

[limber hull]

it's not arbitrary though, it's simply streamlined for the outlined goals of the system. You won't have the benefits of that forever

[urban bear]

They give the player an incredibly good start with pretty low risk and make it way to easy to afk grow until you are to big to eat then anymore. Adding new mushrooms means players spend more time in the sanc looking for mushrooms

[cosmic storm]

So why then, is there an entire system being ignored here?

[limber hull]

I really don't care what you do or don't think of my degree because of your preconceived notions of how game design should be

[urban bear]

Its also just not a good feature for new players who just don't learn the diet system because the mushrooms don't teach them off the rip

[limber hull]

Giving all three nutrients also has players leaving the sanctuary faster because they have achieved the goal of attaining said diet and can now begin their journey to MZs

[urban bear]

Most players will begin their journey to a bush and afk once they get all 3

[cosmic storm]

Did they not teach you the concept of consistency?

[limber hull]

And that's unavoidable with 1 mushroom or 3 mushrooms

With how diets work as-is

[urban bear]

Yes but making them collect multiple makes them spend more time being active

[limber hull]

Then what of cerato and deino being able to do the exact same thing as mushrooms, but with bones?

Literally the exact same thing

[cosmic storm]

It’s better for 3 mushrooms instead of 1 for a learning experience. If you think it unnecessary then you never learned subtlety in tutorial design.

[limber hull]

But it's not good activity. Mushrooms are already unintuitive to find due to their lack of scent, and the general design of sanctuaries makes them better as protection than somewhere you actually wanna navigate

[urban bear]

I think that's bad, why would that be relevant in this conversation when nobody brought it up lol

[limber hull]

But all three nutrients teaches you the perfect diet off the bat. With the ability to select any nutrient, players will eat whatever's in front of them, and never know what a perfect diet is supposed to look like without being told. The sanctuary mushrroms do help at getting new players started on the diet they should be striving for

[urban bear]

You can find like 3 piles and get all 3 nutirents, I would rather players get like 2 piles per diet so they actually have to get their nutrients manually

[cosmic storm]

It misses the part where not all foods give you all types of benefits.

[limber hull]

You learn the "find each unique diet item seperately" as an adult when it's relevant

[urban bear]

Why not teach that off spawn though?

Carnivores have to but why not herbis?

[cosmic storm]

Then why even have a juvenile spawn?

Would it not be simpler to just spawn as an adult near a migration zone?

[limber hull]

You learn that later, and don't have to start with a suboptimal diet to learn that. Rewarding players and showing them via good things, rather than trapping them with an abysmal growth rate for their first time and saying "well better learn which is which quick" is just hostile design that dissuades engagement

[cosmic storm]

The Isle is built on hostile game design?

[limber hull]

Saying "everyone should have it equally bad" rather than questioning why carnivores have it so much harder seems to be a problem hee

[cosmic storm]

Do you not play this game?

[limber hull]

I do, I do not believe it is built on hostile game design

[cosmic storm]

Explain why

[urban bear]

Thats not what im saying, im saying why have carnivores learn the diet system but not herbivores who are fresh spawn. It should function the same at a base level.

[limber hull]

It is difficult, but it is fair. It is not like games like BoB where you can just get exploded by a lightning bolt and have to deal with that

[cosmic storm]

Starving to death randomly seems to be a similar concept.

Why not spawn me closer to sanctuaries?

[limber hull]

It's not random. It is primarily player-controlled on when you eat, and how much you do

[urban bear]

With random spawns its very hit or miss right now

[limber hull]

You have no agency over if the lightning will hit you. You have agency over where you hunt, what you eat, how much you eat, so on

[cosmic storm]

You have only got agency half the time, the other half you spawn weirdly.

[urban bear]

Some of The Isle is just pure luck the same way lightning is in bob its just the nature of survival games

[limber hull]

I've yet to really struggle with random spawns, if anything, they've enriched my gameplay experience

[urban bear]

They are way better for the game then picking a spawn for sure

[cosmic storm]

Perhaps you don’t view things from the perspective of a player

[urban bear]

but they make finding food/diet way harder and punish you way harder for dying which is a good thing

[limber hull]

I play the game so I'd be surprised if I didn't

[urban bear]

I'm just saying generally finding food can be luck based

its also knowledge based on where you may get lucky finding a body/ai

[lilac bolt]

For the main part yeah but there has been a few times recently where no matter what i could not find a bit of ai anywhere near me. Just seems right now ai spawns are a little weird. most of the time it works but other times you simply starve since no ai will spawn near you

[cosmic storm]

I find it’s a bit more complicated than you realize;
A game designer has a very different perspective to a player and a player to an artist and an artist to a game designer.
They each have a different mindset which has a different understanding of the world in which they experience.
As an artist, player, and game designer, I have discovered I view things with an artistic or player view more than a game designer view.

In other words, I view things based on what’s fun or what causes me the most emotion over what is mechanically complex.

A game designer generally thinks about mechanics and enjoys interacting with those more which is why you enjoy the more complex aspects of the game, and why I do not.

I do think you don’t think like a player.

[cosmic storm]

But this is my assessment of why we do not have the same interests.

Your understanding of the game is based in you being a game designer.
My understanding of the game is based on me being an artist.

[limber hull]

i hard disagree with this. i do not favour mechanical complexity over fun, that's the opposite of what a game designer should do. I think adding more mushrooms is needless mechanical complexity. I think dino AI is needless mechanical complexity. I think trying to add human structure building is needless mechanical complexity

[cosmic storm]

You view it as needless because you understand the system is flawed as it is already. Any player knows that.

[limber hull]

i think my preferences as a player do not align with the standard Isle player's (I am not cuckoo for combat, and prefer to engage with survival with the occasional hunt over hotspotting with constant action)

[cosmic storm]

As an artist, I align with the desire for a survival experience over a combat experience.

Being spammed with fights just doesn’t fit the style of game we are playing.

And nor does it fit a good story.

[limber hull]

I played new carno and had a blast, even though I keep hearing it's been nerfed to oblivion lmao (I still disagree with that)

[limber hull]

I prefer the survival narrative over the "I fought 5 ceratos, 3 omnis, a tenonto and a stego"

[cosmic storm]

Same here

I prefer social aspects that still do not get in the way or support behaviors that would arbitrarily harm the game. This is where I feel Legacy did well and Evrima fails.

But you don’t

You believe Evrima is superior because you think the very concept of global chat arbitrarily decreases the value of the experience.

[limber hull]

I mean, I do, I dislike global chat immensely

It takes away from the immersion and is used exceptionally toxically

[cosmic storm]

Yes, which is why I feel Legacy did well on it; you could remain in local or group to avoid interacting with it.

It however ensured that groups formed, and resulted in more interactions.

[limber hull]

sure, but that doesn't stop bad actors from using it to disclose your location or send out kill orders for you

[cosmic storm]

That is true, but that’s why I never remained stationary in Legacy, always moving from lake to lake.

Migration zones operate in that very way now

Problem solved by mechanics

[cyan flame]

@cosmic stormI do think you make a good point about having different kind of mushrooms in sanctuary to teach new herbis how the food works, and to make it more interesting, as well as more to do. Especially if there's also to be tacos or something in there for carnis to eat, and get organs from perhaps (maybe tacos themselves should give no nutris, but organs do, to get that part too).

[cosmic storm]

Yes, that would definitely be interesting.

[wispy jackal]

I think what the game lacks is an actual welcoming guide to newbies. Im coming across folks all the time who have no idea how so many things work. (eg: had to tell a friend what button was scent and also night vision)
Its not a welcoming game LMAO its fun dont get me wrong but Ive played this for ages + follow this discord. Nothing wrong with giving some new players a helping hand I reckon. Different coloured mushrooms sure, why not

[limber hull]

I genuinely don't see how that helps new players. I legitimately think it detriments them more than helps, because the "all diet" mushrooms give you a rundown guide of a perfect diet

[wispy jackal]

Eh, if its just simple plants its not really a big deal but a visual guide to help would benefit this game since they hide a lot of their gameplay features behind trial and error (which is fine but not for the bare basics of playing)

what we have works for sure, idk if theyre changing sancs?? but it does work, I think in other aspects though the game could use some..... additional help

[cedar drum]

me when 3 weather resistance

https://tenor.com/view/thor-mighty-thor-jane-foster-mjolnir-lightning-gif-26164780

[limber hull]

having to take the "don't die to lightning" perk is still bad LMAO

[cedar drum]

oh, i agree

funny instant death is not actually funny

[limber hull]

(it's why i still think sniper rifle bad)

[cedar drum]

which sniper rifle (specifically)

[limber hull]

any

[cedar drum]

fair enough

its also why i dont like adding big crocodiles to these games

they are THE isntant kill playable

[limber hull]

eh, big crocs are actually more fair imho

[cedar drum]

more fair does not mean it is fair

personally i dont like dying to a giant invisible crocodile that sat in water for an hour, and pressed right click

[night nova]

Guys, I've been trying to play Ptera, and damn, plz give us stam regen while gliding, thanks

[zenith hazel]

#general-feedback message is it really too much to ask

[tight iron]

yes

[zenith hazel]

How so?

[tight iron]

cause it makes no sense

it might not require the most skill to pounce someone, but, if we're going by skill only, pounce takes more skill than most other abilities

ram, herrera jump, all those things would also have to be nerfed cause they literally take no skill

the game is not about who has the most skill wins

[zenith hazel]

Mate all I’m asking is to not lose hours of progress to a TAILSHOT. I don’t care about the pin itself since it’s avoidable

[tight iron]

you care about the pin itself cause you asking to nerf it

it's avoidable, you said it, just avoid it

[zenith hazel]

Are u fr

[tight iron]

let's put a scenario

[limber hull]

all of them don't screw you over on tailhit lol

[tight iron]

a dryo is running from a raptor

the raptor tries pinning the dryo down but he gets the dryo's tail

[zenith hazel]

So let me get this straight. You used carno in your example right? Can it one shot an omni on the tail? No, can an omni one shot things on the tail? Yea
How’s that fair

[tight iron]

i used carno as an example of not requiring skill to use its ability

[marble quail]

I mean otherwise that just makes the pounce not that good

[tight iron]

and yes it can 1 tap the tail sometmies

and same with raptor, it sometimes 1 taps, not all the time

[zenith hazel]

Can’t really avoid it when I’m punished and the raptor is heavily rewarded from a tailshot (basically a miss)

[limber hull]

Literally every other animal doesn't get knockdowns or stuns if it hits the tail

Why is omni apparently the exception

[marble quail]

You want to use pounce while chasing things that are obviously facing away from it

[tight iron]

okay well you said you can avoid it now you cant avoid it

[marble quail]

Because Omni is terrible anyway

[tight iron]

a tailshot is not a miss, it's a hit

[limber hull]

since when lol

[tight iron]

^^

[limber hull]

a tailshot is effectively a miss lol

[tight iron]

no sir

a tailshot is a hit

that's why it's called tail shot

[marble quail]

Why should it be

[limber hull]

basically no damage, no ability to do bleed, no knockdowns, it has very little value

[limber hull]

if i'm an omni, realistically, i should hit the main body to pin the thing

[tight iron]

no not really