general-feedback-discussion

[tight iron]

yeah

if you're far away enough you can't be hit

[jovial hazel]

That doesn't do damage or bleed anymore.

Just makes the noise.

[tight iron]

by abusing terrain i don't mean that it's a cheat or smth

[jovial hazel]

Ah ok

[tight iron]

i just call it abusing terrain cause it's just abusing the feature of you being able to use terrain to your advantage

[tight iron]

not if you do it correctly

it's gonna do zero bleed but

[jovial hazel]

I see. But yeah.. There's pretty much places everywhere that I could be that you would have to take a hit to land a bite. And baiting isn't really effective, you can wait to swing until they actually land the bite.

[tight iron]

well about that...

not really

[jovial hazel]

And if you quick swing, you have a very miniscule window to land a bite anyways.

[tight iron]

baiting is the only way to get good hits and pounces in

[tight iron]

enough time to land a pounce

[jovial hazel]

Yeah, but if I'm in a corner, just hypothetically. You have to run out hte same way you run in.. you're not landing a bite without getting hit.

Yeah you're not pouncing either.

[tight iron]

thing is, you'll never run out of options as a raptor, it's stupid

[jovial hazel]

I agree with you, pretty much. The fight is stupid.

[tight iron]

it's just

raptor has everything to perfectly counter stego

numbers, speed, agility, stamina, bleed, pounce ability...

you can pounce them from above and they're actually unable to do anything

it's just...

[jovial hazel]

The back pounce is a whole other level of stupid ontop of it.. Hoping they rethink that socket.

[tight iron]

no wonder nobody plays stego in eu-1 anymore they got traumatized after the beating we gave em

[tight iron]

it actually makes sense

[cyan flame]

Stego just need properly effective and nonclunky attacks. And oh yeah, the new back pounce... is interesting xD

[tight iron]

but stego should have a reliable way to defend itself

[cyan flame]

Literally sitting on top of the plates

[jovial hazel]

It makes sense.. except you're invulnerable on its back.

[cyan flame]

Honestly, I feel like, if you're sitting there, and the stego jabs, you should probably go flying off

[tight iron]

bucking i guess...

i don't know man raptor is just too good against stegos it's insane

[jovial hazel]

Yeah, bucking is also broken.. that's a big part of it too.

[tight iron]

and it wastes stamina

[cyan flame]

Like, the stego is swinging it's tail, you're sitting precariously on top of the row of plates, I could see "bucking" being just an attack for that position

[jovial hazel]

There's a lot of fixable issues with the matchup, I think.

[tight iron]

and what you do NOT want to do as a stego is use any stamina

[cyan flame]

Also yeah, bucking is... not impressive

[tight iron]

yep...

[cyan flame]

Do you know if it gets better as you grow? Cause I had a large juvie/young sub, and the omni that pounced me sat on me for three full cycles of bucking, and then got off fine

[tight iron]

only time you'll see me admit that raptor is insane against a playable

[tight iron]

oh well

[cyan flame]

So unless bucking gets better the larger you grow, I am concerned

[jovial hazel]

I haven't played enough stego, but it doesn't seem like it.

[cyan flame]

Cause three full cycles, the entire bucking anim, sounds like a lot for a single omni

[tight iron]

oh yeah you haven't seen what carno's bucking does to raptor's stamina

[jovial hazel]

I think it takes about hte same amount of bucks against adult stego.

[tight iron]

absolutely obliterates the stamina

[cyan flame]

But since I don't know if bucking gets more powerful with growth, Im not sure if it works better as adult

[tight iron]

yknow something that we do? we use all of our stamina

we can just sit back and relax while the others harass the stego

[jovial hazel]

You're much better off just holding the pounce if they buck.. you will regain stamina, he wont lol

[tight iron]

most of the times half the pack aint got a drop of stamina

[tight iron]

that's what we do

with stego stamina being the most horrendous thing on earth we force it to waste it or die

either waste it and die of no stamina or die to bleed you choose

but you're dying either way

and anyone who tries to bodycamp is getting the same treatment (death)

before all the stegos disappeared they understood that certain raptors with certain skins had to be respected

and when those certain raptors got a kill, no challenging had to be done

not even talking about me and my other buddies there was another pack

[cyan flame]

You'll have to start hunting other things instead, maybe go after the deinos

[tight iron]

and trust me those raptors are insane at combat as well

[tight iron]

im really good against deinos lol i also hunt them for a living with my pack

i just beat the heck out of it to death and then we all eat it 👍

imagine the frustration of dying to a stupid black and white raptor as a 3 ton deino

[cyan flame]

Try the fully grown ones, see if that is more of a challenge then!

[tight iron]

i love challenges

[cyan flame]

Maybe you can figure out a way to hunt them in the water

[tight iron]

i beat any deino that tries to steal our food

[tight iron]

LOL

become an underwater backpack

[cyan flame]

That'd be hilarious to see if nothing else, a bunch of omnis jumping into the water to hunt down the deinos

[tight iron]

man 😭

that would be the funniest thing ever to be seen

[cyan flame]

You'll have to take up the stegos job of keeping deinos in the water

[tight iron]

that would be insane

[cyan flame]

If no stegos around because of you, you have to do their job now

[tight iron]

the devs after hearing that a bunch of raptors hunt deinos in the water:

"Hotfix"

"- Pounce improvements and hit detection."
"- Removed Omniraptor because they were committing domestic terrorism against deinos, we never thought raptors would be hunting deinos INSIDE of the water."

[tight iron]

in all honesty now we kinda do this

bait the deinos out and just beat em up

[shrewd creek]

you guys wanna read my 10 year old review?

[fading shadow]

@slate flint don’t say that, they’ll remove the coordinates and make it really terrible

[barren zephyr]

Also a mini map just isn’t needed in evrima

[latent olive]

@haughty dew there IS a game like that, called Animalia Survival

be warned however, theres only like 50 active players and the game is horrible

[fathom moth]

has anyone actually tried to get to the new ne as a deino?

via the river?

[midnight heath]

That's not even true, you can't see them half the time if you're high up in a tree.

If you didn't hear them in areas like East plains it'd be very hard to avoid them. You hearing them is quite literally their counter. Every "ambush" in this game makes a noise, including deino when it lunges, when troo/omni pounce and when carno rams; they all make noise.

Also you can avoid deino, there's dozens of time shallow spots to drink. Trees on the other hand are genuinely everywhere.

[cyan flame]

The difference is more so that neither deino, nor omni or troodon require distance, while herrera very much do for any effect. So herrera is by far more likely to be noticed and/or otherwise fail the attack by the target merely going it's merry way, none the wiser.

By the time you hear either of those, only herrera has any actual travel time and thus something you can respond to within reason

If herrera could attack at "point blank" then it'd be accurate to compare, but last I checked, herrera requires quite the fall time to hit hard

[midnight heath]

If the herra is that far you barely hear it anyhow, and the fall doesn't need to be that high to kill smaller things; that's why the palms in East work just fine. I'm just saying, if herra were really that bad or struggling to kill things we wouldn't have bodies piled around East pond like we do everyday.

I had a herra fall from a palm two ceras high and it was enough to hurt a decent bit which is not very high.

[cyan flame]

What were you at that time?

[midnight heath]

A FG cera

[cyan flame]

Hm, maybe they upped the power of it then from when I played around with it

[midnight heath]

It wasn't enough to kill for sure but it did hurt enough for me to just leave.

[cyan flame]

None the less, herrera are more likely to be avoided by movement than any of the others, and is overall more limited in power. And I don't think herrera struggles, but I also think people simply are not really thinking about the danger and acting properly. Much as you'd think people would be used to them by now. But it could be a matter of being able to see herreras, where you can't see deinos, and thus not percieving them as that much of a danger in the same way.

[midnight heath]

I just think players are slow to learn, I don't think of alot of them will either.

[cyan flame]

But if hearing them is the counter, then what it means is that deino and the others need to be way noisier, and with more time between noise and attack. Because unless you can react between hearing herrera and being hit, the noise from the attack means nothing. And if it's the noise from the herrera getting into position, then the other examples lack that.

[midnight heath]

I mean people do think deino should have a tell, I agree since it's a 1-tap for most things. Hearing herras prevents me from getting hit as I'm sure many others and therefore I'm rarely jumped. If people hear it and don't move, then they didn't "counter" it and got jumped.

[cyan flame]

Fair. Get hit by herrera, proceed to stand under the tree and look at it so it can try again. Yes, apparently people do behave like that, little sense as it makes.

[midnight heath]

I've seen them plenty of times, stand under it and bite as if you're going to somehow get it >> gets jumped again >> comes and complains to the feedback channel.

[urban flax]

#general-feedback message
Stego isn't 10X the size of a baby raptor at all... It's nearly 200X its size

I agree with the feedback tho

[wintry whale]

@hollow mirage If you’re looking for a cave near swamp, have you used the manmade tunnel over there? Or are you looking for a full on actual cave?

Coastal caves could be fun… Maybe those will be more common than just the southwest area whenever those come in

[native vortex]

Are you joking? When Herrera makes a noise it’s way different since he needs to run up the tree which takes seconds giving the prey enough time to escape unlike omni who pounces instantly. How are they gonna kill something if the prey hears them a mile away? Your only thinking about your problems and not Herrera’s current one. Also most ppl don’t walk 1 mile to find shallow water and they drink from the pond at EP and get killed, Dont stand still under trees it’s that easy to avoid them

[midnight heath]

I literally said that if it's at a distance that you'll likely not hear them not even a handful of messages down from that. Half the time the herra isn't running up the tree before it ambushes you, it'd be a bad ambush if it were; it's normally already there. I haven't died to a herrea, it's not my issues personally that I'm on about, I'm just defending that the noise should stick.

Again if it were that much of an issue and unfair for the herra they wouldn't be killing as much as they do, I don't think they're OP, I don't think they're weak, I think they're fine as is and I just disagree with making them quieter.

[native vortex]

From that distance they can’t even hit u tho. And how are you disagreeing with something that’s objective lol? You still haven’t answered my questions after i debunked u

[midnight heath]

I sure can, if you can't maybe that's on you? Also what didn't I answer and what did you "debunk" exactly?

[cyan flame]

If you have to run up the tree first, then it sounds more like you didn't plan out your movement and attacks all that well in the first place

[midnight heath]

I feel like you're just baiting now, I really do.

[native vortex]

Believe whatever u want for all I care

[midnight heath]

Also how is it objective?

[native vortex]

Tell me how to plan it then lmao

[midnight heath]

Sit in tree and wait, crazy 100 IQ play.

[native vortex]

Since the moment he touches a tree the prey runs making it impossible to hunt

[midnight heath]

Maybe put bait under it

[cyan flame]

Herrera seems to be doing quite fine, maybe it's because people have yet to learn how to look up, but then things can be adjusted if herrera ends up being unable to do what it's supposed to down the line

[midnight heath]

If you're already in position the only sound they should hear is the actual jump, then it's all on reaction.

[native vortex]

Ah yea ima sit in some random tree and wait for a player to come down to my specific tree for no reason and stand still under it

[midnight heath]

If you need to move around ahead of time that's just bad planning.

[cyan flame]

You find a good area, find a good tree to jump from, then you sit up there and wait until something is nice enough to walk within strike range, and you commence death from above on the thing that so kindly offered itself up

You're an ambush predator, your entire thing is "sit in the same spot until thing comes close enough to instantly kill", more or less

That's how you hunt, deino does it, herrera does it too

[native vortex]

Or stalk your prey then strike when they don’t expect it

[cyan flame]

Sure, but then you have to be more careful and keep in mind how to go about that

Which is, apparently, what you struggle with?

[native vortex]

Even if he is quiet it would be easy to avoid them so why should they be loud? It would be overkill lol

[native vortex]

Careful? How it’s not like i can move quietly unlike every other ambusher

[midnight heath]

I'm not even sure what this is about anymore, I've said my peace and you're actually just "lol you're wrong explain it again." now

[cyan flame]

... If you're stalking, actively following the prey, you're not really ambushing all that much, now are you...

[native vortex]

Strawman fallacy lol, I did not

[cyan flame]

Again, the others don't follow, they more or less find a good spot, and sit in it, with minimal movement if needed

[midnight heath]

That's not what that means

[cyan flame]

If you have to swim across half the lake as deino to get into position, you chose a terrible spot, and will have to learn to pick your spots better

[native vortex]

So lions aren’t ambush preds?

[midnight heath]

I'm not even sure what that has to do with it making noise

[cyan flame]

Same applies to herrera, if you have to follow your target on the ground, you might want to try and predict the target the next time

[midnight heath]

Herra isn't really a stalk type, it's a sit and wait type like deino.

[native vortex]

That dosent really work on Herrera so u gotta move

[midnight heath]

I and many others don't struggle with that.

[cyan flame]

Not really no, in general, if you chase after the prey, you're more of a pursuit or persistence predator. While all critters in general want to get as close as possible before striking, proper ambush predators tend to do the whole "let prey come within strike range, then kill in one go", see crocs, snakes, some spiders, and so on

You should keep in mind that wanting to get close, for a better chance at getting the prey, does not neccesarily mean ambush predator, or designed to ambush

[midnight heath]

I was going to use snakes there, sharks I think might count too for "ambush" preds.

At least some species that is

[cyan flame]

A cheetah would also preferably get as close as possible, why wouldn't it, but it's a pursuit predator, it generally chases after the prey

[native vortex]

Herrera is literally meant to be played in a pursuit type playstyle, he has massive bleed damage which means that he needs to keep the prey bleeding

[cyan flame]

Of course it's favourable for you to be as close as possible, in herreras case with the fall distance taken into account, but that does not mean you're good at following the prey, because you're not

[cyan flame]

... No, not at all. Herrera is ambush, as much as deino is. Why does it do massive bleed, so that the target does not run away easily, in case you need a second drop

Precisely because you're not good at following, so if the target can take the bleed, and run with no worries, unless you kill it outright, you're not getting it

[native vortex]

Wdym in case you need a second drop? Lmaooo the prey would rather run than continue to stand still there

[cyan flame]

Hence, you do massive bleed, to prevent the target from getting away from your drop range too easily, giving you a second shot if you need it, though preferably you'd one shot, or drop in succession with a pack to drop it in one go

[cyan flame]

Which is where the bleed comes in, since smaller targets tend to bleed out if they run too much

As omnis can attest to

[native vortex]

Carnos tho?

[cyan flame]

You might not neccesarily kill an omni, or dilo, in one go, depending on drop distance, but you can make them bleed so badly that if they run too much, they bleed out

Though you can one shot omnis from what I know

[midnight heath]

How.. How is it a pursuit predator? The thing is super weak in HP and slow.

If the thing you chased turned around and you can't climb something you just die

[native vortex]

Follow the prey and strike when it rests

[cyan flame]

Carno? Do you mean hunting them or what?

[midnight heath]

And if it gets up..?

[native vortex]

Have you even played as Herrera before

[midnight heath]

Your bite force isn't exactly strong

[native vortex]

Then it won’t heal which is my win

[cyan flame]

Which you're no good at, because A, you're slow on land, and B, traveling via jumps in trees takes both stamina, and well, trees... where targets can just run out of range and then rest

[midnight heath]

Have you? You don't seem to be playing it to it's strong points.

[native vortex]

Are you joking? The point is that you need to keep them bleeding not deal more damage

[native vortex]

I have 700 hours on that thing

[cyan flame]

Ideally you'd hunt things you one shot, so pursuit of any kind wouldn't be needed

[native vortex]

What’s that supposed to mean

[midnight heath]

One big pounce kills most things that are small, you don't need to prevent them from resting really. That's what people are complaining about.

[native vortex]

He is meant to kill things bigger than him as shown in his art

[cyan flame]

And again, the things that don't die in one shot, tends to bleed out of they move too much, assuming they're not too big for you to take on, in which case they either stand near the trees, thereby risking another drop, or they move out, and if they're not close to an open area, might bleed out due to the distance they need to move

[cyan flame]

You are aware that omni is bigger than herrera by quite a bit, yes?

[midnight heath]

Its not hunting anything bigger in the concept

It's getting thrown by a teno

[cyan flame]

And you can one shot them, if not directly then if they move a little bit too much via bleed

[midnight heath]

It's hunting a dryo

[native vortex]

By quiet a bit? They are basically the same height lol

[native vortex]

A teno

[cyan flame]

.... Herrera is 175 kg, omni is 450 kg

For someone that has played that long, you ought to know the sizes of the playables

[midnight heath]

It literally gets flung and runs in the concept

[lapis swallow]

Nah, its much tinier

[cyan flame]

It's not hunting it. It''s doing the "flesh grazing" thing that currently isnt in game

[native vortex]

Difference in bone density lmao, same reason to why birds are big but don’t weight that much (for fall damage resistence)

[midnight heath]

Also concept isn't really something to rely on for the actual game.

[cyan flame]

But you can hunt tenos in groups, given coordination, I'm pretty sure

[midnight heath]

Omni climbs in it's concept afterall

[native vortex]

What are u yapping abt

[cyan flame]

No, actual mass... And in this game, that means a clear size difference

As well as weight/health/blood for that matter

[midnight heath]

Weight is difference than height

[cyan flame]

Mass is size, not height

[native vortex]

Mass don’t really apply to herrera the same tho

[midnight heath]

That's what I'm on about, yes.

[native vortex]

Herrera’s bones aren’t filled

[cyan flame]

Of course it does. Omni is way larger than herrera, simple as that

[midnight heath]

So it weighs less

[lapis swallow]

Look at the picture, its shorter in length and shorter in height

[cyan flame]

So you one shotting an omni, possibly even larger dilos (not sure on that) is very much you hunting larger things

[native vortex]

Way larger no? Biology lmao

[cyan flame]

... What are you even on about? We have weight/health/blood in game, that's the stats we go by

[cyan flame]

About 2.5 times the size, yes

[native vortex]

The difference isn’t that massive they are still considered similar sized

[cyan flame]

Right, but it's mass that determines size, not visual profile

[lapis swallow]

They are not

[native vortex]

The isle is trying to be realistic why would smt that has fall damage resistance way up to 7000 kg

[cyan flame]

So while herrera might be almost as tall/long as omni, it's still not as large by size/mass, which is what matters here

[cyan flame]

No, the isle isnt trying to be realistic, not by a long shot

The sheer fact that a 175 kg critter, that isn't built for it, can climb and do drop attacks like herrera should tell you that much...

[native vortex]

What are u yapping abt lol, there is a difference in bone density everyone knows that

[cyan flame]

None of which at all changes anything in my example anyway. But why do you even think that there's such a thing in the game, there isn't. Or if there is, it'd be related to fracture chance or something

[native vortex]

Do you consider dilo and omni similar sized

[vapid moth]

is this where I can ask questions or is it another channle?

[native vortex]

So birds for example are considered small?

[cyan flame]

The critters we have aren't real dinos, they're replicated designed critters, that somewhat resemble the real life version, to a more or less degree

[lapis swallow]

No

[cyan flame]

Depends on the question, but ideally you'd do it in Isle discussion, or if its some issue, in troubleshooting, and so on

[cyan flame]

No, dilo is quite a bit larger

[vapid moth]

ok thank you

[native vortex]

Didn’t ask u but alr

[cyan flame]

Depends on which bird you're talking about? Not sure how that's related anyway

[native vortex]

The big ones obv

[native vortex]

Compare it to a wolf and see who is heavier

[cyan flame]

So, like an ostrich, that comes in at, from a quick look at wikia, 100 kg or so?

[native vortex]

Flying ones

Anyways

Why should herrera be loud again

[lapis swallow]

So you are comparing herras to eagles and such?

[native vortex]

Yes, they got similar bones, both build to resist fall damage and be lighter

[cyan flame]

Apparently about 12 kg, compared to a wolf being around 35 or so? Not sure what you're trying to prove here

... Why do you even think herrera in the game has that?

[lapis swallow]

Their build is so different. Also, we dont know their bone density

[native vortex]

Bc the devs are trying to be realistic and not have a 8 ton Dino climb trees

[cyan flame]

It could literally be any other reason, because it's not a real critter, it climbs because the replicator decided it should, it has resistance because it makes game sense, not because of any "real life" reason

[cyan flame]

Herrera climbing isn't realistic

[native vortex]

You can calculate it easily lol, they can survive 30 meters drops

[cyan flame]

... It's literally an ingame stat of fall damage resistance

[native vortex]

Still, they are trying to be as realistic as possible

[urban flax]

Introducing : neuros

[lapis swallow]

Dude, its a game. Rl physics dont matter here

[native vortex]

Let’s go back to the actual argument

[tight iron]

ive been watching this for a while

[cyan flame]

... No, no they're not. Strains, "cannibals/gen2", herrera climbing, carno charging, omni existing, troodon existing and having venom, dilo having venom

[native vortex]

They tried to be realistic with the stam so ur wrong

[cyan flame]

Sure, the actual argument is that herrera probably should make some noise because it makes sense, and that also, from what I know, it will be getting its own sounds that vary with the surface at that

[lapis swallow]

How?

[tight iron]

dilo itself (dilo is actually smaller than a raptor or same size iirc), dilo venom, herrera climbing, troodon, ai, humans, stego at the same time as a deino, etc etc etc

[cyan flame]

So for all we know, sounds might change for better or worse, but it's not really an issue that herrera makes sounds for how it currently plays

[native vortex]

It’s slow like irl

[tight iron]

i-

[cyan flame]

Dilo is quite large IRL I believe, so that's more or less accurate that it's large

[lapis swallow]

Wut?

[tight iron]

this stamina system is the most inaccurate thing ive ever seen man

[cyan flame]

You are aware that the stam changes have little to do with realism and more to do with how they want people to play

[tight iron]

it has nothing close to any sort of realism

[cyan flame]

Such as conserving stamina in fights and travel

[native vortex]

Yes it does look up

[cyan flame]

It's not a matter of realism, it's a matter of "we want players to treat stamina as an important resource"

[tight iron]

no it doesn't you can get your stamina back from 5% irl to 100 without sitting

and you can do that in 3 minutes

there are no thresholds irl

[native vortex]

Sure

[urban flax]

irl you're a human, not a dino
It makes a big difference

[native vortex]

Can we go back to the actual argument

[urban flax]

But yeah the thresholds are kinda lame

[native vortex]

Ye

[tight iron]

as someone who vomited daily in judo classes and almost passed out in every single one of them i think i know how stamina works

[lapis swallow]

Also, all the creatures are warmblooded, Which is unlikely

[native vortex]

Huh

[cyan flame]

They could use some work, yes

[urban flax]

Doesn't change the fact you're a human and not a dino
And humans are among the animals with the best stamina ever, with wolves and horses

[cyan flame]

You had an answer. The current sounds are not an issue, and might be adjusted further if herrera gets its own sounds, so there might be good and bad surfaces to climb and move around on.

[tight iron]

i know

but im sure that certain dinos must have had stamina very similar to ours

specially with how evolved these mfers were

[native vortex]

It’s so easy to avoid them so them being silent is a good thing

[cyan flame]

I don't think they should be entirely silent, that's already bad enough as it is with deino, and people will be liable to complain. And herreras do have more leeway where they can hunt.

[tight iron]

wait did they make it silent

[cyan flame]

And even with sound, they do just fine hunting anyway

Current herrera does fine, there's no real issue with how it sounds

[native vortex]

They should make him more quiter to the point that u can’t accidentally hear them

[native vortex]

Horde testing or regular

[lapis swallow]

Both

[native vortex]

He is currently balanced in the horde testing, I’ve had ppl avoid me it’s not impossible, so I’m glad that he is silent

[cyan flame]

Regular, there was no issues for herreras there, haven't checked out horde testing yet

[lapis swallow]

I am pretty sure I heard my climbing

[native vortex]

There were since ppl weren’t able to ambush properly

[cyan flame]

... Then they clearly didn't know how to ambush properly

Cause people could and did ambush on regular as well

[native vortex]

How? When you climb the prey will escape lol

[cyan flame]

You could go test it out

[cyan flame]

I told you, you wait in position, if you're not doing that, you're not ambushing properly

[native vortex]

Ppl who got killed by a herrera on regular are most likely kids tho

[cyan flame]

Doesn't change how to properly execute an ambush

[native vortex]

In what position lol? Why would they come to my tree specifically

[cyan flame]

Becuase you picked a tree in a spot where people are likely to pass by, or stay in, due to water, food, or just a travel route, and so on

[native vortex]

Name such a place rn

[cyan flame]

Which again, is part of ambushing, picking a good spot for where it's likely things come by

Well, in general hanging out near water sources people like to drink from works, you can potentially hunt around sanctuaries, and well, whatever local hotspot is currently active

I don't know right now, since they changed up the map again, presumably to avoid hotspots

[lapis swallow]

The whole eastplains lake

[native vortex]

The water is wide your prey could be drinking from anywhere

[cyan flame]

But the basic sentiment is that you should be able to figure out where people go by playing, and then hunting in accordance with that

Just like how deinos do when they need to figure out where to hunt from

[cyan flame]

Correct, so make educated guesses, again, like deinos have to do. If you're halfway across the lake, you're not getting me before I'm done drinking. Bad timing and luck happens, but you can still try and reason out which spots might be more likely than others and so on

[native vortex]

“Educated guess” it’s here and there lmao

[cyan flame]

Maybe I've just been lucky then I guess

[native vortex]

Also could u elaborate on how it would be too op for Herrera to be silent

[cyan flame]

Why? I never claimed it would be, just that I don't consider "regular" herrera an issue that needs to be fixed, and would rather have some form of noise or otherwise indicator, rather than going the deino route

[native vortex]

Oh ok then

[cyan flame]

Just because I don't see an issue with herrera making some sounds, as long as they're not excessive, does not mean I think it'd be op if it was entirely silent. Since there's still ways to well, be wary of a herrera, more so than deino at any rate

[lapis swallow]

Silently sneaking up on anybody without any real fear of getting spotted, since you are moving above their usual viewfield

[cyan flame]

It's more so that you've made it out to be, well, more difficult to ambush than it has been for me at least, and so I don't agree that herrera was/is in a bad spot

[native vortex]

I told you that last part earlier but you was not having it xD

[cyan flame]

But I do pull the whole "sit in one spot forever" tactic, since that's how I learnt to ambush way back in progression, so I'm more used to that

[native vortex]

“Usual view field” then look up, yeah ever tried that? Might be helpful

[cyan flame]

More so that it wasn't really relevant to the rest of the arguments to be fair

[native vortex]

It was since i pointed out that it’s easier for a deino to ambush

[lapis swallow]

Consider that people wont look up all the time, specifically if they need to drink and eat

Sound would help with that since you can react to the herra climbing. If its silent and gets unlucky and has chosen a bad ambush spot, it can just compensate for that

[native vortex]

You can eat by pressing g and swallowing chunks and drink at a safe place lol why would u even do that at east plains

[cyan flame]

Ah, fair, I agree with you there, deino is... well, a problem and a half to say the least

And I'd rather not make herrera more like deino, but deino more like herrera if anything

[lapis swallow]

Why would you need to drink at one of the hotspots? Geez

[native vortex]

That’s what I’m asking u? Are u good lol

[lapis swallow]

Maybe because it is a spot that people tend to stay at hotspots

[cyan flame]

Because people like to be in the hotspots, and they do need food and water every now and then

[native vortex]

It’s dumb that ppl drink there in the first place bc of the deinos there and then bc of the Herrera’s, so they deserve to get killed lol

[native vortex]

Why would u drink out of a deino infested water source

[tight iron]

dont mind me saying something again, it's easy to drink at east plains without dying cough cough

i go back into the shadows 👻

[lapis swallow]

Yeh

[native vortex]

What do u play as

[tight iron]

raptor

[native vortex]

Ofc lol

[lapis swallow]

If I know that there is no deino in there

[tight iron]

sometimes cera, a few times teno, etc

ive only been snatched by the laggiest deinos on earth

[native vortex]

Your tiny no body is gonna eat u lol

[tight iron]

u think a deino wouldn't go after a fg raptor?

a deino?

deinos go for fresh spawn raptors

[native vortex]

Then take small sips at a time to avoid Herrera’s and try moving around a bit lol, it’s that easy hope u realise that it’s not hard to avoid them

[tight iron]

best solution is just to not be there

[lapis swallow]

Never got jumped by herra

[tight iron]

but if you really need to go to the "safe" place there is and use your ears to know if a herrera is coming

[native vortex]

Some of them are sweats can’t lie, but my point is that your small and won’t get noticed as easily

[lapis swallow]

Since they tend to jump around a lot, you can spot them

I also stay very rarily at east plains, so that helps

[native vortex]

Then he needs a buff lol? You avoid it easily

[tight iron]

i mean sure but no chance a hungry deino won't notice me when he's desperately tryna find food

[lapis swallow]

I usually stay at spots where herras are rare

[tight iron]

and keep in mind that deinos are always hungry

i wonder tho, don't you think that comparing deino to herrera is just plain dumb?

they have no similarities

[native vortex]

No

[cyan flame]

Because the chance of fighting at a hotspot is worth the risk, I guess. I don't know, I tend to avoid hotspots, but people in general do like them, or so it seems at least

[tight iron]

i wouldn't compare a teno to raptor let alone a deino to a herrera

[native vortex]

They do, both are ambushers who catches you by superse

[tight iron]

one of them is limited to water and can't chase u down, it has only 1 try, its food lasts for 90 minutes but desperately needs it all the time and has issues travelling on land

[native vortex]

How are u comparing a teno to a raptor to a herrera to a deino

[native vortex]

They have literally no similarities unlike Herrera and deino

[tight iron]

whereas herreras are limited to land, can chase u down after a jump, has more than 1 try, idk bout the food thing, doesn't need food as desperately as deino does all the time (still does need it), jumps you from above

[lapis swallow]

Thats basically every carni that can ambush

[tight iron]

herrera and deino have no similarities either

they are practically the opposite

the only thing they do is, like any other carnivore, ambush

[native vortex]

But u can’t see herras and deinos for the most part tho, that’s how they are similar

[tight iron]

that's why i said i wouldn't compare a teno to a raptor, it's nonsense cause they're so different

[tight iron]

weren't you saying that they're easy to spot?

[lapis swallow]

So hypsis are similar to deino and herra too

[cyan flame]

I would say herrera and deino play very similarly, that's kind of how they're meant to function. One kills you in one go from the water, the other from the treetops

[native vortex]

For the most part is the key word

[native vortex]

And that is if you pay attention

[tight iron]

well that key word changes nothing

[native vortex]

It do do does

[tight iron]

if the way to spot them is looking above since it's so easy to see them but now you can't see em for the most part, wat?

[cyan flame]

Herreras can't really chase well, and they fold to most things, including troodons apparently, on the ground. And unless the target is dumb, you don't get a second chance, unless you hit something that can't afford to run away very well due to massive bleed inflicted

[native vortex]

Nobody looks up tho and then complain abt getting killed

[lapis swallow]

Especially if you can see the whole tree from a small distance

[native vortex]

Troodons hell nah

[tight iron]

yes they get obliterated by most things but that doesn't mean they can't chase you down

[cyan flame]

Well, I've seen people claim troodon can win the 1v1, I've not engaged any troodon, I like to play very survival oriented so I just go up the tree and ignore the little bugger

[tight iron]

they run at 45 km/h iirc which is more than a lot of dinos

raptor literally runs at 46.8 km/h and it's one of the fastest 🤷‍♂️

either way my point is that comparing deino to herrera is like comparing raptor to teno, it's nonsense

[native vortex]

Raptors can literally one tap a herrera so it’s fair

[cyan flame]

Unlike raptor though, herreras don't really do well on the ground

[tight iron]

yesyes im not comparing raptor to herrera

[native vortex]

Are you joking? A herrera is closer to a deino than a raptor to a teno

[tight iron]

herreras chasing you down is only to bite you once and get up a tree

[cyan flame]

So while you can run after something, you can't really do that much

[native vortex]

Try out herrera first lol

[tight iron]

a deino and a herrera only have one thing in common, they are supposed to stay in a place to kill ppl and eat them with one bite/jump

[cyan flame]

Don't herrera do rather low damage on bite?

[tight iron]

yes but it does inmense bleed

[cyan flame]

On the bite?

[tight iron]

yes

with inmense im not even comparing it to the jump the jump is insane

[cyan flame]

Really? Did they give it some massive multiplier then, seems strange

[tight iron]

but compared to other bites it does insane bleed

[native vortex]

It’s bite don’t much bleed

[native vortex]

Proof?

[tight iron]

im sure it does more bleed than anyone else

[tight iron]

me bleeding the crap out after being bit 3 times

[native vortex]

your sure

[native vortex]

Send proof

[cyan flame]

I've heard dilo does good bleed on bite, or did, but not that herrera ever did, or do

[tight iron]

no i dont clip all my interactions smh

[cyan flame]

Bleed out as what?

[tight iron]

below 40% blood

[native vortex]

It’s Dilos they got a extremely good bleed

[tight iron]

and going down fast as heck

[tight iron]

well dilos do a lot of bleed per bite

[cyan flame]

Dilos I know do good bleed, but never heard herrera does the same

What did you bleed out as from three herrera bites?

[tight iron]

didn't bleed out

[native vortex]

How are you complaining as a raptor main when u one tap pachies,gallis and anything similar sized

[tight iron]

got away on 15% blood

[tight iron]

do u really think im even complaining

[native vortex]

Your saying that Herrera needs to be loud

[tight iron]

im stating

[tight iron]

and how is that a complaint

it is an opinion that i myself have

[native vortex]

What?

[cyan flame]

As what?

Even if you didn't bleed out, what did you lose so much bleed as?

[tight iron]

raptor ofc

[cyan flame]

Three herrera bites got you from 100% blood down to 40% left? Did you run around a lot? How was your stam/food/water/health?

[native vortex]

Let’s test it out then lol, let’s see if the bleed is that good

[tight iron]

to 15%, ran the heck away from it when i saw my bleed at 60%, was full stam pretty nice food pretty nice water and full health

not to mention that we were literally fighting so i was moving a lot till i saw my blood going to crap

[tight iron]

im definetely not gonna kill myself as a raptor just for this

[cyan flame]

Hmm, yeah that sounds really strange honestly

[tight iron]

however i know a private server :>

we gotta wait till hordetesting is published into main tho

[native vortex]

No in a admin server lmaooo

[cyan flame]

Yeah, you should go test that, because that seems really off

[tight iron]

cause they probably changed it

[native vortex]

Sure

[native vortex]

Excuses?

[tight iron]

just so you know raptor has a terrible bleed resistance

[native vortex]

Ye i have never heard of that before lol

[tight iron]

no literal logic they might've changed it so let's wait till they publish it

[native vortex]

No one has ever mentioned this which is odd

[cyan flame]

I don't think omni has any resistance at all, it's from what I know, just normal, like most critters

[tight iron]

wait u didn't know?

raptor bleeds out easier than practically anything else

[cyan flame]

Deino has resistance, pachy has some, carno has, not neccesarily less resistance but extra multiplier on movements or how it was

[tight iron]

matter of fact you have like 25 seconds to sit down if you get jumped by a herrera or you bleed out

[cyan flame]

Omni I don't think has any changes at all, like most others

[lapis swallow]

It has the same resistance like other creatures

[cyan flame]

No idea, but never heard of omni having any changes, could just be low blood pool in the first place

[tight iron]

ive never seen a creature bleed out after a 5 second pounce excepting raptor

[cyan flame]

Pachy also bled out really badly after all, and I don't think it was ever weak to bleed either, just not resistant

[tight iron]

that is, ofc, if the raptor runs around

[native vortex]

No that a herrera can bleed out a raptor with only its bite

[cyan flame]

Well, you'd need to compare with something else that has only 450 blood

[native vortex]

Ima be back in a bit

[tight iron]

spam bite the heck out of it and just wait

[tight iron]

indeed

[cyan flame]

So I guess a teno at 450 kg, or a pachy at 450 kg, and so on

And see how it works there

[tight iron]

to be fair pachy has bad as heck bleed tolerance as well

[cyan flame]

Though pachy has some resistance so maybe not, unless that is accounted for

[tight iron]

im guessing raptor has the standard bleed tolerance for its weight

[cyan flame]

And pachy has bleed resist, so yeah

[lapis swallow]

It has

[cyan flame]

It's probably a matter of blood pool then

[tight iron]

it's gotta be that

[cyan flame]

But you could try to compare with a stego and teno at 450 kg and see

[tight iron]

a funny story from hordetesting, the other day i got down to 20% blood from 2 cera bites

but i was running around like a madman tryna find food

[lapis swallow]

Thats not weird

[cyan flame]

Though movement multipliers could vary, so might want to try just standing still

[tight iron]

never went below 70% before

[cyan flame]

Low on food? Since you said you ran around looking for food?

[tight iron]

and ppl seem to die faster to bleed now

[tight iron]

i had 3% s

[cyan flame]

Yeah... no wonder then

[tight iron]

was looking for a deer like a madman

food was 70% but s was just gon

[cyan flame]

That explains why you bled so much if you had that little food

[tight iron]

i had 70% food smh

was looking for food like a madman to get my s back up

i need it to heal faster and to get all the buffs

[limber hull]

it actually has one of the highest bleed res in the game lol

[tight iron]

huh

[cyan flame]

I don't think it's that impressive to be fair

[tight iron]

definetely isn't, im just confused cause it's not difficult to bleed them out

[cyan flame]

Because despite the small amount of bleed resistance, they still only have 500 in bloodpool, unless something else has changed

[tight iron]

yep

[limber hull]

they've buffed the bleed resistance several times

[cyan flame]

Even so, I don't think it has that much

[latent olive]

wait what

and here i was, dreaming this morning in bed that i was playing herrera, and i successfully dropkicked two pachies and only had to wait until they bled to death

[indigo mural]

can you explain why you disagree, I feel that teno has ample defensive capabilities and a lot of room for error. why not reduce their stamina

they also have the advantage of being able to jump and use the environment in various ways to aid in combat against most of the roster

And on top of that they swim fast so if you really needed to evacuate a situation you can swim across a river and you’d basically be safe from most things.

[midnight heath]

I love teno but I agree it should get a bit of a stamina tweak for sure. I posted a suggestion like that a bit ago, you're not alone in thinking it should be looked at.

[olive hollow]

why do you hate pteranodons so much

babies can't catch frogs at all now without a bigger PT to help

no turtles still by water access

[hollow crown]

this guy def atacked a Teno as a Cera and got chased and bit to death XDD. Teno is one of the strogest dinos right now if u can't fight him dont' atack him, and the alt atack does consume stamina

how does that sugestion have 8 likes the 1st sentenced he said was not even true makes me worried that the devs look at ppl like this voting and make a decision on it

[hollow crown]

and Teno as atack cooldowns at his current state i don't know if it's the lag but that's a big nerf

[indigo mural]

I wasn’t even a cera I was a dilo getting chased by two tenos after we made a kill on a cera and they massacred everyone. you’re just trying to make seem like I don’t know what I’m talking about. We didn’t even engage the tenos you have no clue what you’re even talking about dude

[hollow crown]

you don't bec on your first sentance you said teno alt atack doesent consume stamina and you were wrong so you're right i do think you don't know what you're talking about

[indigo mural]

It doesn’t seem like they take any stamina they could literally have a broken leg and are still able to spam their alt

That doesn’t even negate that fact that they still need a stamina nerf

That’s really besides the point

[hollow crown]

i agree that teno stam should be nerfed but the points you made in your discussion weren't good

[indigo mural]

Sure

And it doesn’t seem like you agree from the way you’re going at it tbh

You didn’t mention that at all

[hollow crown]

don't agree with your post, no

i do agree that teno needs a small stamna nerf

[indigo mural]

Then better communicate what you do and don’t agree on

[hollow crown]

i saw you making a post with wrong information and still alot of ppl voted agreeing with you just shows me that you didn't rly know what u were talking abt and was just mad bec of your interaction with a teno ingame you clearly dont play teno based on what you said so you can't tell them to nerf it

[indigo mural]

Dude I made one error in what I said and it’s really minuet in the bigger picture of what I was saying. And it doesn’t negate from my initial point of it needing a stamina nerf and you even agreed that they do. I have played teno and I remember the alt taking little to no stamina so I was wrong I guess and I made an edit to reflect that

That doesn’t discredit my entire suggestion

[hollow crown]

you can make a error ofc though don't blaim me for not agreeing with your post when the 1st thing i saw was wrong information for me that tells me thing guy clearly never played teno

[indigo mural]

It’s not that I’m mad that you disagree I don’t like the way you’re trying to frame in a way as if I know nothing at all so my opinion means nothing, and you didn’t even mention the fact that you agreed with some parts, you just went straight into trying to bash me with out fully explaining your perspective

[hollow crown]

i did tell you i agree teno needs a stam nerf

[indigo mural]

That was after the fact

[hollow crown]

bec that was not why i posted in this chat i posted bec of your miss information and the fact that a good amount of ppl voted yes on it

i didnt post this bec i desagree with teno needing a stam nerf but bec of the other stuff you said in the post

[indigo mural]

You’re still missing the point and it’s really not even worth speaking back and worth over fr

Is what it is

[hollow crown]

agreed, im not i made myself clear it's fine u did a mistake but dont blaim me for getting ''mad'' bec i saw alot of upvotes on a miss information post that's all

[indigo mural]

Sure

[hidden mist]

Anyone knows, are devs still going to change attack cooldowns to how they were before for all creatures?

[tight iron]

yes they will they're chnaged in hordetesting

[hidden mist]

Teno still has those long ass cooldowns :( Didn't test other dinos though

[barren crater]

Basic attack cooldowns were changed

Secondary attacks still have the same cooldown. Don’t know when they will be fixed though

[urban flax]

@barren zephyr Didn't read lol
I just saw minmi so I upvoted

[barren zephyr]

Epic lol

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message
Literally no one promised any of these things

What is with people and "hmm yes make ceratorex now pls"

It's honestly in a pretty good spot in hordetest, what with the changes to chargebite and its manual vomit

[boreal briar]

@radiant comet I'd like more HP and bite, but I think it should also be slower if that happens. It feels like its supposed to be a mini-tank, and a bully around bodies.The damage reduction near bodies is already quite hefty so it basically fills the role.

[midnight heath]

Clearly others agree though, tenos currently do just chase players down, ceras, pachys, anything small and kill it via stamina. They have enough stamina to chase things and still spam kicks at it. Not a whole lot else has that sort of generous stamina currently.

[limber hull]

It doesn't need either of those things tbh

[midnight heath]

I think cera is fine as it is, I like cera.

[limber hull]

It already has a passive ability which can double its availible health by simply being near a corpse

[boreal briar]

Agreed QQ

Yeah that's why I'm saying it's basically good as it is with the damage reduction. I just wanted to put a "maybe if x" on his idea

[limber hull]

(also cera's bite is VERY generous, given how fast it is and how it can charge the bite to do INSANELY high damage)

[midnight heath]

I get killed by tenos as an herbi more than preds at this rate, I like teno too but it's a bit much right now stamina wise.

[hollow crown]

his stamina needs a nerf i agree now if u atack a teno with a cera for example and you lost the fight and now you decide to run well teno is faster dont expect him to go away after you atacked your option would b dont atack or if you do you gotta win the fight tenos have a higher top speed so they will always do that. When it comes to any other specie they are faster than teno just run away easie

[limber hull]

A 225 base bite I'm pretty sure would result in a charge bite that can literally one-tap a pachy which is uh

strong

[midnight heath]

All tenos I've seen recently I haven't attacked and they just decide to engage you. Tenos are fairly speedy too with great stamina so it's a bit rough outrunning it in some situations.

If I were a cera at that point it could absolutely just kill me. Which granted KOS isn't against the rules and I don't care in reality about it, what I do care about is the fact is it can chase and fight, not at all worried about stamina conserving like every other playable.

[hollow crown]

and that's not the point i was making the point was this post had wrong information in it and still reached 8 likes wich means ppl are upvoting stuff just bec and they don't rly know if it's true and that just makes it alot harder for the devs to add good changes to the game

[midnight heath]

But their overall suggestion is "reduce tenos stamina"

You agree that it needs a nerf too

[hollow crown]

he should b more worried abt stamina sure now his speed i think it's fine and there should b a risk to dinos that atack him they shouldnt just b able to atack a teno they see they're losing the fight and get a free escape

[hollow crown]

the rest of the message is not credibla when the 1st sentance is wrong information bec it imidiatly tells that person doesen't play the dinosaur he's asking to b nerfed

and like i said i posted this bec im mind blown that alot of ppl read that and upvoted it even containing wrong information wich means they also dont know what they're upvoating and that's not good

[midnight heath]

I don't agree with the rest of his sentiment about herbivore favoritism, I just agree with his overall push being a stamina reduction. If what he says isn't true I'm sure the devs are fairly aware, they make up the stats themselves so the flavor text isn't concerning to me. It's not like they haven't played the game.

Developer favoritism is a thing I believe in in every game but they're surely aware of how things function. If I lie and say a herra is faster than an omni and to nerf it I'm sure they know it's not true.

[hollow crown]

i looked at that post and the message i got was this guy doesen't play teno if he's saying alt bites dont take stamina so why should i care abt the other stuff he's complaining abt if he was not credible at all

[midnight heath]

Because again the overall suggestion is about stamina, a handful of players agree that it's an issue and that's what the whole post is about. Incorrect flavor text I don't think will influence a change. Very real issues regarding balance are pushed constantly and they rarely change; so why would this specific, untrue statement matter.

It's unnessesary worry in my honest opinion, I do worry about a bigger nerf happening to teno but it's not because of any suggestion, it's just off the trackrecord teno has with nerfs.

[hollow crown]

if you create a statement about something and in your first line you write something that's not true and smeone that played teno for 1 day would know why should you care abt that person opinion on what he finds fair or not my point is not that stamina doesent need changes, it does.

and teno did get nerfed recently he now has atack cooldowns and the kick idk if it's i bug i hope so takes 0.5 seconds to happend from the moment you press the button

and ppl don't talk abt the nerf because the people that are complaining about teno clearly don't play it my point is complain about something but test it urself

[midnight heath]

Again the first line is "reduce tenos stamina" which isn't an untrue statement according to a lot of players, the issue is very much alive and therefore of course people are going to upvote it despite the rest. They want it to change, they want someone to see it and for it to be fixed. If they downvote it that might come across as "Oh, they don't want us to change it's stamina." and then the issue never being fixed which is a valid concern.

I don't personally feel the cooldown is an issue but I can grow another for sure and see if that changes on my part. Teno is my favorite herbivore and I think it has a lot of diversity in it's kit. I like that it has the high ground in specific fights, it feels strong and sturdy. I just don't like it being used to KOS just because it has super generous stamina, it makes sense too that folks take issue with it if they'd lost a few playables due to the issue.

I do know something was mentioned with pachy having a cooldown, which I personally didn't feel but granted it's been a second since I played it outside of horde-testing.

[tight iron]

#general-feedback message get dondi to react with filipesmh

it would be absolutely hilarious

[lapis swallow]

@vagrant hedge HEHEHEHA

[tight iron]

LMAO

not even any feedback or anything he just goes "HEHEHEHA"

[vagrant hedge]

@lapis swallow ?

[hollow mirage]

I am looking for a full cave.

[wintry whale]

I see, holding out hope for GUTS stuff and coastal caves there

[mystic parcel]

@karmic yoke ptera giving deino a dmg buff just pushes for mix packing

[karmic yoke]

seems a bit different than say mixing ceras with raptors or herbis with carnos

ptera is nearly a spectator dino and I really dont think itd be that impactful

[karmic yoke]

^

[vagrant hedge]

@mystic parcel mix packing isnt that bad tho. lots of animals in the world have symbiotic relationships anyways.

[cinder haven]

brokn denio your idea is good but people didn't support it

[vagrant hedge]

i didnt have a idea about mix packing tho, just saying, supporting mixpacking isnt really a bad thing, mix packing in a real life thing

that, and for some reasons, lots of people think herbies should be passive. where in reallife, herbies tend to be pretty aggressive

[mystic parcel]

Mixpacking is bad if it's giving each other a boost. No real life animal gives a dmg boost. Ptera cleaning deino teeth? Yea sure that's cute, it's not mixpacking, just cute role-play. The reason ptera was nerfed in the first place was because if was used as a scout too often. I don't agree with t
It being nerf but that's the reason from what I know. Now actually giving a complete other species a dmg boost is just dumb. Anyone who has a ptera friend will just dominate over othe deinos

[mystic parcel]

Symbiotic relationship and mixpacking to dominate over others is entirely different.

[vagrant hedge]

3 cera vs 2 cera 1 carno isnt dominating... animals symbiotic relationships is based on survival, so is mix packing

[faint folio]

If anything it should be a (minor) health buff (or resistance to disease maybe?). Since cleaning teeth doesn't sharpen them, but it does prevent painful infections. Or maybe it slightly boosts how much food a deino gets from its prey? (Going with the idea that dirty teeth causes conjunctivitis and abscessed teeth, therefore making it painful to eat causing the deino to "eat" less)

That could potentially work better because it's not a combat buff at all, and because it complements the ambush play style of the deino. They get more out of whatever occasional meal they can find

[dire acorn]

Would be kinda funny to have Ptera get a timed buff instead of Deinos when it cleans teeth tho

risk life and limb for a funny guy buff

[karmic yoke]

this>> the 5% dmg buff was just something off the top of my head but yeah a more passive increase like food would work better

[fathom moth]

are dilo and herr slated to be added to others diets next patch? I dont see it on hordetest

[limber hull]

they are on the diets in hordetest though

[fathom moth]

for who? I havent seen them on herr or deino

[limber hull]

i haven't tried deino, but they're on carno, omni, cera iirc

[fathom moth]

love the nv for herr

underwater

did they remove all the trees herr can rest in by the water in EP?

[bold mason]

I personally feel like we would need salt water crocs/other salt water predators before adding content/incentivizing going to islands.

[fathom moth]

very confused how im seeing crocs in east plains lake on hordetest

[limber hull]

they walk there

[glass canyon]

Weird Troodons too, hunted by a Dilo . . .

[rough wind]

#general-feedback message
Completely agree
While super high contrast makes the game look better it also makes it unnecesarily hard to see
The game still acheives a cinematic look without all the contrast

[urban flax]

Is that pre or post hordetest ?
Because from other screenshots I seen lighting on the hordetest didn't look like that

Also I consider the galli comparison invalid because it's only in front of the sun in one of the screenshots

[feral solstice]

I play the horde test and it literally looks exactly like the Galli picture.

Everywhere you go, no matter the lighting, the contrast is ridiculously high

[mystic parcel]

still have to use my nv in the day time due to the contrast, shadows still too dark, hurts my eyes

[tight iron]

yea if you turn lumen off it doesn't have these shadows

[tight iron]

mixpacking is horrendous

big difference between symbiotic relationships and mixpacking

mixpacking is when either a carnivore and a herbivore or two different carnivore species team up and try to survive together

don't confuse with two different species teaming up to do something and then leaving like nothing happened

if a raptor pack and a dilo pack kill a stego, eat from it, chill for a bit and then say goodbye i never knew you, that's perfectly fine, however if they decide to be one group for all they do... that's just nasty

you invalidate all downsides of each dino with an unrealistic and unfair as heck type of gameplay

don't confuse with mixherding, herbis forming a massive group is completely normal

[midnight heath]

If you spawn in Water Access you genuinely just keep going straight until you reach the Delta fork and take a hard East turn, the river ends and you climb out, cross the bridge and end up in the river that connects NE. From there you can walk to the pond, you'll hurt a bit but it's not that hard. I just want the pond gone along with East.

[cyan flame]

To be fair, any form of mixing is bad, simply because it ruins balance very easily, be it carni/herbi, herbi/herbi or carni/carni

[cyan flame]

Teaming up is mixing, no matter how temporary it might be, there's no getting around that

[tight iron]

because of herbi species doing that irl all the time, i find it to be a normal behavior

[cyan flame]

True, but comparisons to IRL doesn't really work for a game

[midnight heath]

So a pachy breaking legs solely for a steg to come up and 1-tap you isn't unfair?

Doesn't ruin the experience at all?

[cyan flame]

Because herbi players in game, do not behave like herbis irl, as we should all be well aware of by now xD

[tight iron]

no, if i am killing a stego and a croc kills the stego and lets me eat, that's not mixpacking

[cyan flame]

And while there are actual cases of mixpacking carnis irl, it doesn't work well for game balance

[tight iron]

what would be mixpacking is if the deino just gave me food that i didnt even work for

[cyan flame]

It is if you're working together, yes

[tight iron]

no it's not sir

[cyan flame]

Yes, yes it is. You can not possibly argue otherwise

[tight iron]

different carnivore species are always enemies, however they sometimes decide to put aside their differences to get something that they both need and then continue being hostile

[cyan flame]

If you're actively teaming and working with another species, even if it's only for one engagement, you are mixing, be it as herbis, carnis, or one of each

[tight iron]

and that's not mixpacking

[cyan flame]

And that is by definition mixpacking

[tight iron]

can u give me some examples

[cyan flame]

Since you are, without a doubt, ruining balance

[tight iron]

not at all

[cyan flame]

Yes, it is. That is a fact. You are actively mixing with another species and working with them

[midnight heath]

I don't kill other players unless I need food and or they're a threat, if someone is friendly with me I'm friendly towards them but I'm not going to jump into a fight if something hunts them and I won't help them hunt other things.

Being friendly is fine, helping kill other players via an unfair advantage isn't in my opinion.

[pure quiver]

@dense meteor Your suggestion for allowing calls in the character menu is excellent, it would also let players get familiar with species' sounds before getting plunged into the wild trying to decypher what's ambience and what's interactable

[cyan flame]

How are you possibly not comprehending this?

You by definition mixpack/herd if you are actively working together

[tight iron]

because it is different than what you are trying to make it look like

[cyan flame]

No, no it's not. What you're possibly trying to argue, is third partying, which is taking advantage of a situation, but that's not the same as working together. Surviving one encounter, only for the ones hiding to finish you off is not the same as two parties actively working together

[tight iron]

two carnivore species that decide to set aside their differences for one single hunt and after that say "goodbye i never knew you if i see you again im killing you" is not mixpacking because by definition mixpacking is a carnivore/hervibore or carnivore and carnivore aiding each other so they can both survive together

[cyan flame]

If you're deliberately attacking together with something else, or defending together, you're mixing

[cyan flame]

That is mixing, no matter how temporary

And working together for a single hunt is surviving

[tight iron]

my point is that if im a raptor and a dilo pack comes and just targets the stego that im hunting to then kill it, we share the meal and then we go our way is not mixpacking

i may have worded it in a terrible way ngl

[cyan flame]

That is mixing, no matter how you try to excuse it

You are actively working with something else, and thus ruining balance

Even if it's only for one engagement, it is none the less mixpacking

You don't get to say "it's fine only if", no, no it's not. Mixing is by definition working together, actively so, in order to achieve something. Even if it is only for the one time

[tight iron]

mixpacking is by definition forming a group with another species and try to survive together

if two unrelated carnivores just happen to meet each other while hunting and one of them just goes after what they're hunting and after that they don't feel like attacking the first group that was hunting what they ended up killing, that's not mixpacking

[cyan flame]

And you are, at that point in time, doing that. With the exact same result, even if it is only for that one hunt

[tight iron]

alr so if im a raptor and a dilo pack kills the stego that im hunting what should i do? leave and starve?

[cyan flame]

Yes, it is. Mixing is by definition working with another species, it doesn't have to be permanent, or "organized" even

[tight iron]

no it's not

[cyan flame]

I mean, if they want to go in and engage while you're hunting it, you let them do it on their own

[cyan flame]

It is. It literally, is

[tight iron]

keep in mind that mixpacking is in my opinion the most horrendous thing and i kill anyone mixpacking regardless of the species, so i guess i should leave after they interrupt my hunt according to you?

[cyan flame]

Why do you struggle with understanding this. If you're actively working with another species, you are mixing with them. Be it for one time only, or otherwise, you are still mixing.

[tight iron]

because it's just incorrect

[cyan flame]

If you're actively chasing/hunting a pachy, and a dilo comes along to also attack the pachy, and you work with the dilo to go after the pachy, you're mixing at that point

[tight iron]

i've seen different animal species killing a herbivore and then sharing the food only to go back to being hostile again

[cyan flame]

Simple as that

[cyan flame]

And they were mixpacking, end of story

[tight iron]

and that's just not mixpacking, it's not being stupid and fighting for stupid things

[cyan flame]

It literally is, if they were working together to achieve the goal

[tight iron]

no sir it is not

it's not being dumb and fighting pointlessly

[cyan flame]

... You are actively working with another species, that is mixing, no matter how you might try to excuse it

[tight iron]

look if im a raptor and a deino just comes up and kills the stego im hunting what do u want me to do

[cyan flame]

Since you are actively, at that point, more or less "ruining" the balance, by having the target having to deal with two different opponents at the same time, in a way that it's most likely not balanced to handle. This can be more or less obvious, depending on what is hunting what

[tight iron]

are we mixpacking because some person decided to get in an ongoing fight?

i didn't ask them to get in the fight, they did it on their own accord

[midnight heath]

I think it's a weird topic in general, if you KOS people don't like it; if you're friendly and eat from the same corpse people call for mix packing.

Nearly everyone I've seen who hates mixpacking will jump the chance to mix with something like a deino if it means they can drink, I do genuinely think it matters more what is mixing with what and what they're doing.

A pachy/carno is unbalanced, basically any mid-tier carnivore with other mid-tier carnivores is unbalanced. Mix diet can be tricky but they typically need to go off and eat, a young cera following a steg and nothing else I don't really see an issue with if they're not using it as a meat wall or for hunting.

[tight iron]

and i have no interest in them surviving at all but im also not dumb and im not gonna fight an impossible fight

[cyan flame]

You can just watch and see what happens

[midnight heath]

I feel like mixing does hurt the game but some are far, far worse than others.

[tight iron]

ill just say "look i hate you guys but im not dumb let's just sign a temporary truce and that's it"

[cyan flame]

And yes, it matters what mixes, generally the issue comes with combat capable mix

[midnight heath]

I agree there

[tight iron]

"we have food let's not be stupid"

[cyan flame]

temporary truce can mean "I will just let you attack but not help you"

[latent olive]

my kind of symbiosis is an example of herreras drinking at a lake, and the deinos in the lake ignore them because the herreras attract larger predators for the deinos to eat

[tight iron]

if they get attacked i don't care it's not my problem

but i'm not going to stop my hunt because they want that stego dead as well

ill keep going and not be a dumb person fighting for stupid stuff

[cyan flame]

Which means you'll end up mixing

[tight iron]

no i won't

[cyan flame]

You can just admit that you're fine with doing that, instead of trying to excuse it

[tight iron]

im not trying to help them im trying to survive on my own

[cyan flame]

Because yes, you are. You're working together, no matter the reason

[tight iron]

you can just not accuse me of stuff that's untrue man

[midnight heath]

Honestly I'm down with deinos just ignoring small playables anyway, I know I don't tend to kill anything smaller than a dilo unless I'm real hungry since they benefit me making the water look nicer, that and they give nothing % hunger wise.

[cyan flame]

You seem to think it's a matter of intent, it's not, it's a matter of the result of how it effects balance

[tight iron]

let's be real

we try to do stuff that happens in nature

anything that by survival instinct is stupid is frowned upon by players

two carnivore species hanging out together and actively helping each other is plain stupid

[cyan flame]

I am not, you're just for some reason thinking "if its not planned its not mixing" but that's not how it works.

[tight iron]

but two carnivore species not being dumb and not fighting for dumb stuff is not mixpacking

[cyan flame]

Actively helping means actively working towards the same goal, be it offensive or defensive

[tight iron]

nope

[cyan flame]

Yes, that is indeed what it means

[tight iron]

helping is caring for others and i don't care about them at all

[cyan flame]

... No, because its about the result, not if you care about them or not

[tight iron]

not at all

[cyan flame]

You can mix without giving a... anything about the other person involved

[tight iron]

look it's difficult alr?

[midnight heath]

My worry would be say if a carno and group of raptors "help" kill one thing it might end up sticking and them just buddy-buddy-ing up after.

[cyan flame]

Because mixing has nothing to do with if you care about them, only that you're working with them

[tight iron]

but you're just taking everything as mixpacking

[midnight heath]

It really stinks for whatever they hunted

[cyan flame]

No, no it really isnt

[tight iron]

which is, by itself, wrong

[cyan flame]

It's very simple, if you actively work with a different species towards a goal, you're mixing

[tight iron]

if im helping them in any way then yes

[midnight heath]

I like the >> Observe two things duking it out >> Jumping the wounded winner and reaping the rewards.

[cyan flame]

I could protect a dryo only because I want to see you starve, and then kill the dryo the moment you drop of starvation

But while I'm protecting the dryo, I'm still mixing with it

[tight iron]

however me hunting something and them just coming up to finish it isn't me helping them

it's them just going in

and since im not stupid, i won't initiate a pointless fight or just leave the food like that

[cyan flame]

Oh yeah, that's fine. The issue is they make it out as if they're actively engaging, rather than thirdpartying

[midnight heath]

I ain't into pretending to be friendly and then hunting them, I'd 100% just rather wait out the fight. They'll be more beat up and I won't feel guilty.

[cyan flame]

As I stated, if your pack is currently hunting a stego, and a dilo group rolls around and starts going in, either back off and let the dilos have at it, or go after the dilos. Don't work together

[tight iron]

nope

that's not how it works, if a dilo pack comes in im not stopping my hunt

[cyan flame]

Then you are mixing, simple as that

[tight iron]

nope

[cyan flame]

You can make up whatever excuse you want ,but you are

[tight iron]

im not making up excuses i am stating the obvious

[midnight heath]

If I were the steg in that situation I wouldn't have any idea that they weren't mixing and would assume they are, even if they stumbled into eachother personally.

[cyan flame]

Well you're obviously wrong

[tight iron]

i would as well

[tight iron]

no im not because i care about the context

by definition it is not mixpacking so

[cyan flame]

It doesnt really matter, if they are working together, they are mixing, you're now dealing with a "pack" that you arent balanced to deal with

[cyan flame]

It is, literally, by definition mixpacking

[tight iron]

nope

one group decides "let's speed this up we need as much food as we can"

[cyan flame]

Context has nothing to do with it

You're just making up excuses to justify your own mixpacking

[tight iron]

context is the reason you call something mixpacking and not another thing

[cyan flame]

No, if its the same result, its the same thing

[tight iron]

i am stating the obvious to show you why certain behaviors are normal

[midnight heath]

I was just trying to push that with outsider knowledge, I would consider that mixpacking for sure because I'm being hunted by two different packs of things, if they just both happened to hunt me at the same time matters not at all to me either.

[cyan flame]

Has nothing to do with context, at all

[midnight heath]

The end result is the same for the prey

[cyan flame]

You're literally doing the same actions, no matter your reason

And no matter if it was planned or not

[latent olive]

someone is going “nuh uh” in this chat ,,,,….,

[tight iron]

dilo pack interrupts my hunt because they need a crap ton of food

[cyan flame]

It is, because by definition, you're causing the balance issue, by forcing the target into dealing with two separate things, that most likely should be dealt with in two separate manners, at the same time

[tight iron]

they choose not to attack me because no point in initiating dumb fights

that is being smart and having basic knowledge of survival

very different than mixpacking

[cyan flame]

The reason don't change the behaviour, it's that simple

[tight iron]

no it's not as simple as you want it to be

[latent olive]

idk man, if i got attacked by two dilos and a Carno, I’m calling it mixpacking

[cyan flame]

Not if you're still mixpacking in behaviour

[tight iron]

if both come up at the same time, yeah that's just mixpacking

[cyan flame]

It is that simple, what you do matters, not why

[tight iron]

but if one interrupts the hunt to make it shorter, that's not mixpackin

[latent olive]

why does timing matter

[midnight heath]

I know I've been hunted by two things and I don't think it was intended but it still felt mighty bad. To kill two ceras as carno just to get jumped by a little pack of troos that was harassing me the entire fight and dying hurts me.

If they did it after the fight I'd care less, they jumped me when I was down but they did it while I was actively being hunted by something else.

[cyan flame]

And you can easily call in a friend at a later date, so you don't have to work together from the beginning

[tight iron]

because you can't agree to do something if you didn't have a choice in the first place

[midnight heath]

I took that as mixpacking even though I'm pretty sure they weren't trying to.

[cyan flame]

You don't have to agree

It's not a "mixpacking only if agreement", that's not how it works

[latent olive]

i once attacked a Carno, and another cerato appeared to attack me shortly after i started fighting him, only to get killed and then the both of them just ate my corpse

they were mixpacking

[cyan flame]

You can literally get unwanted help, and it will still be mixing if you're accepting it and working together

[tight iron]

depends a lot

[cyan flame]

Yes, it is

[latent olive]

nuh uh

[tight iron]

if they both are just your average "friends" aiding each other yea that's just plain mixpacking

but if the cera came out of nowhere to make the hunt last less and they both decided not to be stupid and initiate pointless fights, that's having common sense

[cyan flame]

It does not matter if you wanted the help, or if it was directly or at a later date, it matters only if the target has to deal with two different hunters/defenders at the same time in a way that the balance is not accounted for

[tight iron]

if you were already hunting and these goobers come out of nowhere, it is not mixpacking

[midnight heath]

That always feels bad, I had a very similar situation yesterday where I was a cera fighting a raptor pack and then a pack of 4 ceras joined the raptors.

It felt awful because I had genuinely no chance in that fight anymore.

[cyan flame]

If you have to deal with multiple different species at the same time, in such a way that dealing with one leaves you open to the other, they're mixing, and you are in a bad spot because of that balance

[cyan flame]

Yes, it is.

[tight iron]

no it's not

[cyan flame]

You really just want to excuse your own mixing, don't you

[tight iron]

you really just want to accuse others

[cyan flame]

If you were already hunting, someone else joins in of a different species, and you just go along with that, you're mixing with them

[tight iron]

it doesn't even make sense

[cyan flame]

Be it on the offense, or defense

[midnight heath]

If I were hunting a teno and a carno decides to hunt it - I'd honestly just go for the carno since it's easier food. They peered into the hunt and that's something easier, let them duke it a bit and then that's good eating.

Rather than help the carno kill the teno

[tight iron]

exactly just go for what's easier to kill

in this case if it's the stego im going for the stego

[cyan flame]

No, I am simply calling mixpacking for what it is, actively working with a different species in combat where the differences makes the engagement unbalanced

[tight iron]

but if we're idk 5 raptors and a dilo comes outta nowhere brother he's dying

[tight iron]

no you're making up new definitions of mixpacking

[cyan flame]

No, I really am not. You just think it changes depending on the reason, but it doesnt

Because it has the same effect for the balance

[tight iron]

however if im a lone raptor and 5 dilos come outta nowhere, let's be honest, im backing off

im just gonna back off and wait to see what happens

and if they choose to give me a bit of the reward for my efforts, awesome

[midnight heath]

I think mixpacking again is a hard topic, it varies a lot and some cases are far, far worse than others. I only take issue if it's unfair for one party.

If I see a little raptor baby struggling to kill AI, I'm happy to kill it and give it to them and don't take issue.

[tight iron]

i worked for it so i deserve it

[cyan flame]

So why not just back off in all cases and you'd never be accused of mixing

[tight iron]

because in all honesty i don't care about what others think

i know what mixpacking is and how it works

[cyan flame]

Backing off doesn't mean "give up and leave" it merely means "don't actively engage together with that other party"

[tight iron]

i don't need no goober telling me that im doing smth that's normal

[cyan flame]

Well, you clearly don't know considering this entire discussion

Also it being normal does not change it being mixpacking, since well, mixpacking can be rather common at the least

[midnight heath]

I just don't think either of you will agree at this point, neither are changing their minds at this rate. Might be a agree to disagree situation.

[tight iron]

you pretty much read my mind

[midnight heath]

Sometimes common ground just ain't there.

[tight iron]

agree to disagree 🤝

[cyan flame]

I guess, but it's not a matter of opinion

[tight iron]

however i want to know your opinion on herbis with herbis

(mixherding)

[midnight heath]

Depends on the herbis a super aggro pachy snapping ankles is rough and personally if I'm a steg and I got little herbis hanging around and someone KOS's a baby I'm spiking them.

[cyan flame]

Just as bad as any other mixing

Twofold, because A, it is questionable if a herbi, or any playable, should rely on another to do well, rather than have their own way to survive, and B, combat capable herbis, is no more fun to deal with than any carni/herbi or carni/carni mix

[tight iron]

makes sense

[cyan flame]

Generally it's not fun when the dryo you're trying to eat is hiding behind a herd of tenos

[tight iron]

i personally find it to be normal and perfectly fine

it's annoying to some degree but it's just how nature works which is what this game tries to replicate

[cyan flame]

I tend to only look at how it actually affects balance, so there's that

[midnight heath]

If it's not a kill squad I'm mostly fine with it, some species migrate in the same areas and they bump eachother.

Tenos and pachy share coast, I've had plenty of tenos bring me a coconut to open and maybe later they help protect that lone pachy later.

[cyan flame]

And well, I know better by now than to try and reason "realism"

[tight iron]

funny story, i was once hunting a sub teno with 3 other raptors when he went up to 3 fg stegos who protected him

we were ofc annoyed but still tried to take him down

in the end we lost 2 raptors to the stegos and just gave him the win

[cyan flame]

I mean, not really, herbis in general don't defend each other from what I know, unless you got some examples?

real life that is

[midnight heath]

If that teno were a juvie I'd protect it but an adult - sub can kill 3 raptors on it's own.

I don't need to help them there, it's a cheap out.

[tight iron]

it's not that common but if the situation is dire enough they do

[cyan flame]

Different species?

[tight iron]

agreed

[tight iron]

sometimes yes

[cyan flame]

Cause I know some carnis do mix in real life, not so sure on herbis, but I could have missed some examples there

[tight iron]

it depends on if the threat is good enough to make it reasonable

[cyan flame]

Though it could also be a matter of "bad carni" rather than "care about other herbi"

[tight iron]

it's not about "yeah let me protect you for no reason" but "look the threat is good enough let's just defend each other"

"we both know they can kill you or me"

[midnight heath]

I'm trying to think of some, I guess there are those monkey that act as alarms for gazelle but that's a bit different. That just kind of happens, less planned.

Well less intended

[tight iron]

yep 🤷‍♂️

[cyan flame]

Would like to know of some examples if you have any?

[tight iron]

it's difficult because it's very rare

but if two species are threatened and attacked, they can unite forces to bonk the attacker

however both have to be directly attacked

[tight iron]

in the extremely rare occasion that i play herbi i do not give a crap about anyone else

im not here to form enemies

but if im being attacked and another herbi is being attacked boi without a shade of a doubt im uniting forces

[tight iron]

you probably know but carnis have hitlists of certain skin patterns that they target for their influence on a hunt beforehand

trust me we do remember who made us fail a hunt

[midnight heath]

Albino skins are always a bit sussy

[tight iron]

definetely

[midnight heath]

My man isn't getting my trust 😔

[tight iron]

if the skin is complicated enough, tho, it's easy to remember and, if you are found, you're probably gonna pay for it

so if you don't help someone and mess with the wrong opponent you might get a get out of this one free card

"wait this teno didnt help this pachy we kinda owe him this one let's spare him"

^^ rare but sometimes happens

so i'd rather take my chances and just dip

also keep in mind that backstabbing is pretty frequent between herbis so yeah im not taking any chances with that

i still remember when a teno killed a pachy who killed him 3 hours prior to that happening

[cyan flame]

Makes me wonder if that would have happened to me way back if we'd had skins back then xD

[tight iron]

he was just ballin and he said "oh wait this one was killing me with other 3 pachies before he's gonna pay for it now"

and he just kicked him into the water where he drowned

not even kidding all those pachies paid with their life that day in separate occasions

and that's a herbi, you can now imagine a carni

im not taking any chances with that

like i still remember the stegos who ruined our teno hunt

i have a very clear image of them and also a very clear image of the corpses of my friends laying down

it's no longer a matter of survival this is personal now

ppl who i usually play with matter to me in the sense of the game enough that im absolutely willing to die for them at any given time no questions asked

if they're drinking at the river (in desperate need of water) i go inside of the river till they're done just in case there's a deino, if 4 carnos r chasing one im going in, etc

and keep in mind that's not even rare, if you do that kind of stuff you're very likely to pay for it sooner or later, so im definetely NOT taking any chance with that

[urban flax]

@full canopy When did the devs say camera wouldn't be changed ? It's still being worked on right now

[urban flax]

I see

[limber hull]

TBH, I wasn't even aware that it had changed lol

Why do you even care? It was reverted back (probably because the change wasn't intentional and was never listed in the patch notes on account of not being intentional)

Anger for anger's sake

[grizzled umbra]

Hmmm I have a memory that it was intentional, actually. I think I read it in the original dev blog (first one when the latest hordetesting begun).

Now they just changed it closer to what it was. That's how I understood it 🤷🏼‍♀️

[barren zephyr]

I don’t even know why that would be a bad thing they can just be experimenting

[fathom moth]

Yes that what you do in live. Talking about hordetest. I havent been able to get a fraction of that distance without dying due to thirst.

[midnight heath]

It'd still be the same I assume, how fast is likely what would effect it since the older the harder it'd be but I have seen deinos in the East pond on the HT.

[misty maple]

Devs pls do something about mixpacking

[brave surge]

have you watched any nature videos like at all? where a pack of lioness is hunting gazelle or zebra and the zebra run into the jaws of a croc? REPORT CROC FOR MIX PACKING. yeah i agree with @tight iron I'm not stopping my hunt because I spent 15 minutes running around the map to finally find some teno spam calling and another player carni steps in to fight it too. Dont care about balance its a survival dino game, not competitive. Call it what you want but you're making up abitrary rules.

[tight iron]

straight to the point 😭

[brave surge]

dude was getting hostile actually thinking he's right here. nature doesn't work how you want your dino rp to work "get in line, wait your turn" wtf?? insane no one else said anything

[limber hull]

mixpacking rules often cause more problems them they solve, sadly

[brave surge]

^

[tight iron]

identifying mixpacking is way too difficult

like actual mixpacking

[limber hull]

if it were a perfect solution, it'd already be done

[tight iron]

you need to see the whole gameplay of someone and figure it out

[terse moss]

so like do humans get band cuz we constantly mixpack asking for a friend XD

[tight iron]

i was gonna do the dogs analogy but it's a game ig

we humans use dogs to hunt and birds and stuff

it's not balanced

but it doesn't have to be

[brave surge]

honestly, does it suck to die to a group of stegos mixing with carnos and whatever else sure, but like you could just play smarter and with better awareness

[limber hull]

i got killed by a mixpack of 2 gallis and a dilo

sure, it was really annoying, but frankly, it's not something i care about that much

[brave surge]

tons of places to hide, id rather a game without mixpacking rules then ones that have them because there are way more circumstantial instances

[tight iron]

the only true moment where you can figure out if it's mixpacking is if you are literally wtaching the whole gameplay

[brave surge]

yeah, but usually not worth the time. spawn back in with the next dino, avoid the area they are at, or eventually find them again and mess with them anyways, mixpacks are usually hard to manage and they friendly fire often

[full canopy]

I think its pretty obviously problematic that they are blatantly lying about changes to the game when confronted about them. But yeah, sure “angry for angers sake”.

[limber hull]

IDK how to tell u this, but as someone who worked as a Lead Game Designer in another game, dev and PR don't always have perfect communication

And Punch ain't dev

"Blatantly lying" as if the cam changes weren't minor as hell

And likely leftover from testing (on account of it being a test branch haha)

[tight iron]

i agree with wave on this one

punch is the community manager and has the dev role for some reason

but he's not actually a dev

and he usually redirects you to people when you ask him questions

so it's very likely that each person only gets the info that they need and that's it

[limber hull]

Technically, he's part of the team, but he's not a "developer"

Not to discredit the work he does, but he isn't a dev

[tight iron]

"I don't know, talk to X person"

[limber hull]

He's a PR guy, which is important, but not the dev themselves

[tight iron]

"That's not something that I take care of, that's X person's territory"

makes me think that he doesn't even know about it

and the camera changes are so minor that i practically don't care about them

[limber hull]

I hate how quick this community is to absolutely stranglehold the devs for minor errors

[tight iron]

to be fair it's not the community

it's a part of it

[limber hull]

(or literally just minor issue in internal communication)

[jovial hazel]

Making a mistake and saying something untrue is a little different than attacking people for spreading conspiracies when they were right the whole time.

But yeah. It is what it is, i guess.

[tight iron]

i mean we don't know the whole context of the situation so i wouldn't even get into it

you can't accuse someone of lying if you don't know if he actually knew it in the first place

nobody knows what he knows about the game development as a whole

[limber hull]

Almost like deriving your information entirely from a Twitch Chat (which is very spur of the moment) is silly

[jovial hazel]

The conversation was in a twitch chat. That is the information.

I'm not really trying to get involved in this petty crap. Just weird to try to skew it one way or another, which seems to be happening alot on both sides.

[tight iron]

it's not even an argument

[jovial hazel]

It's not.

[tight iron]

the way i see it is he got mad and that's pretty much it

[jovial hazel]

Probably. I can imagine the annoyance he has to deal with. People are people.

[tight iron]

honestly punch has a lot of stuff to do

imagine receiving hundreds of dms a day and waking up to hundreds as well

concerns from people, meetings, whatever

i could not imagine myself doing what he does

[fathom moth]

its not the same, they reduced stam pool for deinos out of water and increased dehydration rate, you could barely make it before. Not sure how you would make it now without hacking

[radiant nest]

#balance-feedback-discussion message

#balance-feedback-discussion message

[fathom moth]

yeah i saw, i was able to almost get to NE yesterday, took forever, but died just before, so i suppose you could get to east, its a similar distance

didnt try again because it took so long

they should just put spawns in for ne, south river and keep water access and you would hit most of the spots

the only time you can really move is like as a baby baby croc where death and dehydration is super high, once you get like over 100 kg its impossible to move

anyone who wanted to stop crocs from going ne literally could just camp verdant pond and kill all the 75% dead babies trying to migrate

going from dam lake to verdant pond almost killed me on its own

so you couldnt go much farther then that stretch

the issue is getting to east, once you get down to the delta fast enough, you may be to big at that point to travel

[limber hull]

randomise spawns, rather than add more spawns in boring hotspots

[vagrant hedge]

no, its not. is eating a diet as a small herbie, then a pack of carnos rolling up and killing you "unfair". no. is surviving a 2v1 or 3v1 fight, nearly dead, then going to water for a drink because your thirsting out, then getting grabbed by a croc "unfair" no. thats survival. there is enough food, map space, that if a packy and steggo are mix packing, and you are worried of death, you can survive that situation just the same as many other situations.

[terse moss]

Right now the most unfair thing is the amount of hackers about

[vagrant hedge]

what balance? the game isnt balanced, its not suppose to be balanced. a hipsy isnt suppose to be = to a carno. the game is purposely unbalanced, because thats how survival works with dinos. raptors hunt in large packs, because they are weaker. people mix pack, to be in a larger pack, for survival (the whole point of the game), sometimes they mix pack, just to hang out.

[vagrant hedge]

with the speed changes, a baby croc isnt going anywhere, you can travel to east pond as a adult croc though. once speed is 17kmphr+

[fathom moth]

wouldnt you dehydrate in like 2 seconds? Thought fg deino dehydrates even faster than babies, also uses more stam to run

[vagrant hedge]

its a lil rough, but baby crocs start at like 8kmphr, and land stam doesnt last as long as it did previously. before, a second stage croc? got speed up to 24kmphr, while still having decent stam, then speed slows down to 18 by adult, now, its 8 kmpr as a baby, then slow linear climb to 18 kmph, and stam drain is bad the entire growth. so the best chance now, is adult.

and if a larger croc wants you dead, you cant swim faster, or land it faster.

[fathom moth]

so they can grab up to 6k now with no fight in water

[vagrant hedge]

8000kg

[normal lotus]

And mixpacking is frowned upon since it makes fights completely impossible

[vagrant hedge]

@normal lotus how?

1. the game isnt about the fight, 2. a mix pack, is no different than a large pack of 1 species. if the mix includes some higher end dinos, then the pure pack would need to be bigger to compensate.

[proud coral]

Not all mixed packing is bad for the health of the game, but more problematic mixing (eg; Pachys breaking legs for Stego buddies to finish off) is considered harmful, even by the developers. Though things like a Dryo being a sentry for some Tenos is fine.

[radiant nest]

Micpacks allow players to essentially cover all their weak points, resulting frequently in unfair gameplay

[vagrant hedge]

if Bob loves playing Carnos, and Rick hates carnos but loves packys, and they are best friends and always play together, they hop in discord chat and they mix pack. but because of some peoples views on the game its bad. its survival, and ppl enjoy it. 1 carno 1 packy vs 2 ceras is still a even fight. player skill is going to win it

[radiant nest]

Not really

[normal lotus]

Even the devs themselves dislike herbivores-Carnivore mixpacking and carnivore-carnivore mixpacking. Herbi herbi is ok in my eyes but I prefer not to have it.

[vagrant hedge]

idk, its fine. its not something that can be stopped, unless you dedicate manpower of active admins for it. but placing "rules" in a game that is hardcore survival, isnt hardcore survival. is mix packing realistic? no, there are carno/herbie symbiotic relationships irl, albeit different. but nothing in the game is realistic, they push to mimic some realism. by code is there things that can help against it? yes absolutely. they havent done anything to mitigate mixpacking, so they may not agree with it, but they arent not actively against it

[proud coral]

It's less so for realism, more so for the sake of balancing. And yes, it can never be stopped entirely which is fine. But it can be discouraged in various ways, such as through migration zones in concept.

Of course there are always unofficial servers that can go crazy with how they're played as well

[vagrant hedge]

ive looked at the rules of some of those unoffical servers. like, its their server, do as they want, i get that. but oh my, some of the rules. hahaha not for me, hard pass

i still think they should put in area buffs/debuffs. it would not be that hard to implement. and if done right, could discourage mixpacking. things like, if a baby is near a parent, give em a tiny buff, nothing big, something. encourage nesting. hell, give nests a buff for the area too. if carnivores are near herbivores, or vice vera, for X peroid of time, without death in that area. debuff them all a bit. exclude various species, such as herra.

[proud coral]

Parental buffs is honestly kinda interesting, so long as it's nothing crazy. But other player proximity based buffs can end up easily being abused and/or exploited.

For instance: a Carno wants to troll a Teno with debuffs. Because trolls are usually awful people, Carno doesn't care if it gets debuffed as well. It follows the Teno and stays close enough to make the game think they're mix-packing, but far enough to not get attacked. The Teno can't do anything about it.

Another example: A Raptor is hunting a family of Dryos. It's been stalking them for some time, waiting for the perfect opportunity to strike. But uh oh, game sees that they're close to each other. Dryos suddenly get the mixed-pack debuff and know "oops, predator nearby, better skeddadle" despite the Omni doing everything right.

And if the solution to these conundrums is "just make the distance to trigger debuffs really small", then that just means you can still mix pack, just don't stand DIRECTLY next to each other and thus is easily bypassed. It's a tricky pickle

[bold mason]

is really funny to me how mad people get about mixpacking, i dont normally do it but who cares if people do even at the worst level...

100% intended part of the game, either get good, friends to also mixpack with, or die, none of them are bad options

[tight iron]

it is not intended and the devs were trying to add stuff to make it impossible iirc

[proud coral]

I mean the developers have openly mentioned that certain types of mix-packing are problematic and aren't preferred. Some is fine though.

Migrations (in concept at least) is supposed to help with it a bit.

[bold mason]

havnt seen anything like that

[bold mason]

proof?

[proud coral]

Here's one example

[bold mason]

imo this game is based on freedom, its a sandbox game meaning the game doesnt tell you what to do, pretty sure thats the idea of freedom they are allowing