general-feedback-discussion

[rare fractal]

Cuz if it's based strictly off reacting to the deino once it starts to move most animals will die as they do now

[zinc meadow]

True, although they're not always max growth so even then there's still concealment potential

[rare fractal]

True true

I still stand by sub deino being easily the most fun...even pre sub giga buff

[zinc meadow]

I'm gonna head to bed, thanks for the discussion.

[obsidian sphinx]

About this idea, irl a rifle that can oneshot tiger in the head can also oneshot an elephant it is not that extra meat in elephants thighs provide more protection to its head though elephant weighs more than a tiger.You could argue if the playable had armor on weak points (eg. pachy) such that the armor takes full force of the impact but gets damaged in the process.

[rare fractal]

👍

[obsidian sphinx]

Say a pachy hits human in the leg. Currently the human will die regardless the blow was aimed for the leg or the head ,but say humans leg weigh 15kg and pachy hits in the leg area,then only the leg will take the full force of the impact which would result in human still surviving with a broken leg.

[rare fractal]

It shouldn't

The human would absolutely be killed no matter where they are hit

If it's a direct hit they just die

[obsidian sphinx]

There are human who survived a shark attack though they have a missing leg.Point being leg is not a vital part of human body if the shark had attacked the head then human would surely die.

[rare fractal]

I think you missed my point...being hit by a half ton battering ram at 41kmh is going to kill someone because the concussive force would shatter right through the leg, through their ribs, puncture all their internal organs...and due to pachy's height it's probably just hitting you in the head or chest anyway

Like...context is important when considering the effects of a physics question

Getting a leg forcefully amputated is not the same as being hit in the leg by a car for example

Actually the game already sorta has the system you're looking for only it has nothing to do with HP, fractures effect locational fracture damage health bars

[obsidian sphinx]

I got it, it would be a question of AoE i.e a carno charge will have higher AoE than a pachy ram. So the ram damage will be divided based on how many parts are hit. Getting hit only in leg would transfer most of the energy away from vital parts into rotational energy. Same theory is used in hollow point bullets, the goal is to dump maximum energy of the bullet into the victim and cause maximum damage.

[rare fractal]

The main issue with that is that hitbox registration wouldn't permit this unless every attack had.....well...a lot of hitboxes spaced out by like, an inch or so, so that the damage distribution could be applied as intended

Which is....well performance wise entirely impossible

And it achieves the result of a combat system that incentivizes animals with bigger heads to be played over those that don't

So I don't think it's very functional or good for the games combat system

[urban flax]

This whole system wouldn't work with the weight=health formula anyways

[rare fractal]

HP would be entirely thrown out the window....and so would size advantages

Which would basically render any fast pack hunters demonstrably meta because the amount of hits that they need to kill massive targets isn't that much greater than the amount of hits required to take them down

Only it requires FAR less effort

[urban flax]

Imagine a human with this system tho
A human head is 3 kg
Literally oneshot by a juvie hypsi

[rare fractal]

xD

Omni's would be 4 shotting stegos....rex would onetap everything harder than it already woul be

It just does a lot of wacky rebalancing that makes the game make significantly less sense

[urban flax]

I don't get why one would want to make a realistic damage system with a health system as unrealistic as the weight=health formula

[rare fractal]

Especially in the game where none of the playables have realistically translated capabilities

Which I hate having to KEEP bringing up

But yknow, it's applicable

[obsidian sphinx]

The damage all across the board would need to be nerfed.

[rare fractal]

tbh it's just a system that introduces development impossibilities....and is already sorta covered by locational damage

Like all this really does is giga buff locational weaknesses

[urban flax]

So the only way to kill something is to target their head

Since 90% of their mass (and therefore health) is in the body

Large animals become impervious to all attacks except those targeting their heads

[rare fractal]

Of which they die VERY quickly to....

Idk this damage system just seems very limiting

[obsidian sphinx]

How about this the damage from a bite depends upon the amount of weight that can be chomped i.e again depends on the size of the jaw.

[urban flax]

It would really need a complete overhaul of how every damage source and every healthbar is handled
Rimworld works with such a system, but... it's a very different game

[urban flax]

So large animals become EVEN MORE immune to smalls attacks

Except stego because stego needs to die

[obsidian sphinx]

it would be direct buff to the armored playables.

[urban flax]

It would be a direct buff to every large thing, not even needing armor

[obsidian sphinx]

Thats where bleed comes into play. The amount of bleed inflicted multiplies on how many body parts are bleeding simultaneously.

As only one big blood pool makes much more sense than having one big healthpool.

[rare fractal]

But that's how bleed application already works...you apply more bleed....the target bleeds more

this just makes that locationally reliant

[urban flax]

So unless you're a bleeder you're screwed

It changes almost nothing

Listen, locational health bars could work... But they'd need to have their own, precisely balanced health bars

Like a human would have 60 hp on his head, an omni 120, and a stego something like 600 (potentially more)

And in the end it wouldn't be that much different to the current multipliers system

Except for the fact that you can't chip away from something's health pool by attacking its body then finishing it off with a headshot... Which is both a good and a bad thing

[obsidian sphinx]

It would as a pachy would be able to leg fracture a full grown deino and not get stunned due to weight restriction.

[urban flax]

On the good side, it makes things more realistic
But on the bad side, it makes health much harder to manage, and allows players who know how to manage their healthpools to effectively multiply their resistance

[urban flax]

As Fluff already told you, that's already how fractures work

[obsidian sphinx]

No a pachy can only fracture something that is 3.5 times its weight and it is no threat for anything heavier.

[urban flax]

Bodyparts have fracture health
A pachy hitting a deino's leg multiple times will fracture it, deino just has a lot of fracture health on its legs

There's literally a damage type called "blunt damage" for this specific mechanic

[obsidian sphinx]

So a pachy can head fracture a teno but not a stego despite both having same head size just because stego has more fracture health for its head than teno I assume.

[limber hull]

yes

[obsidian sphinx]

hmm...pachy should leg fracture 100% deino and head fracture a 100% stego without getting stunned but cannot body fracture any of the two.

[limber hull]

it really shouldn't

absolutely zero reason that should ever be the case

in what universe does pachy need to be fracturing either deino or stego. It can already easily outrun and outstam them in a basic foot race without fractures

[obsidian sphinx]

of course a half ton hammer running at 41 kmph would inflict serious damage to a 300kg leg. Even 0.5 kg hammer can break my pinkie toe falling from 6 feet.

[limber hull]

heres the problem though

again, why does pachy need to do that

[obsidian sphinx]

because it can

[limber hull]

terrible reason to make an already insanely oppressive animal even more frustrating and oppressive

[urban flax]

Wait that's not a reasoning
"Pachy needs to be able to fracture deino's legs so it can fracture deino's legs"

[obsidian sphinx]

Pachy can fracture a carnos leg so it should fracture a deino's leg as carno's leg is bigger in size.

[urban flax]

[urban flax]

Have you ever tried breaking wooden sticks ? Assuming both are of the same width, which one is the hardest to break, the 5cm long one, or the 1m long one ?

[obsidian sphinx]

it depends on how I break them though smaller sticks would be harder to break by using my hands but smashing both with a hammer would deform them regardless of their length.

[urban flax]

At least you somewhat get the point
Toughness is unrelated to length

[obsidian sphinx]

same goes with width a hammer wont deform a log but it can still break a twig

[urban flax]

Deino is tougher than carno. Pachy has no business fighting a deino. Thereofre pachy can't break deino's legs (or stego's head, same reasoning). It's simple as that.

[rancid raptor]

@steady rampart Nesting is okay as it is.
In the future, it will give buffs. We'll be waiting for that

[steady rampart]

Nesting is to simple. With the right animations and work, it could be greater

Too*

[rancid raptor]

It should not be changed up until we get buffs

[steady rampart]

Once we do get the needed benefits for nesting, the idea of different types of nests and gameplay of the parents should be changed slightly. Because I know how annoying it is to get sticks for Deinosuchus and stuff. With different materials (duckweed) gathering stuff would be easier.

[icy lion]

@light mountain Carno takes at least an hour longer than pachy if they have the same growth bonus

[light mountain]

ill delete my post the wiki must be off a bit

[light mountain]

it had pachys at 2.2 and carnos at 1.8 hours

[icy lion]

The wiki is very, very rarely accurate

It hasn't been maintained in ages

[light mountain]

do you know where i can find accurate times

[icy lion]

Not that I'm aware of, sorry

[hallow umbra]

try this website, its relatively accurate https://evrimacalculator.com/evrima.calculator.html

[light mountain]

thanks alot

[hallow umbra]

100 for growth % is for no growth bonuses and 150 is for +50% growth

and so on

[limber hull]

@vivid jungle we already have a complex system for bleed and bleed damages, your suggested bleed tiers makes the system simplified and less engaging

[limber hull]

@latent olive
"Mind explaining your feedback post?"
"It came to me in a dream."

[latent olive]

lmfao

[frozen heron]

@latent olive I'm glad im not the only one who has isle dreams

[latent olive]

ive had them for a long while

the previous ones i had were me playing magy, megalania, and styracosaurus on spiro

[frozen heron]

Was the megalania one fun

[latent olive]

yeah

i was viewing the megalania from behind like regular gameplay as i was walking forwards, it was pretty cool

[zinc meadow]

Had a few Isle dreams but nothing feedback worthy so far

[compact flare]

deinosuchus from the isle will abduct you

[normal lotus]

How did the model look?

[latent olive]

m eglania......

[obsidian sphinx]

deino has no business hunting on land yet here we are

[urban flax]

Then deino needs a fix, not pachy...

[limber hull]

clearly the best way to fix the problem is to buff the already annoyingly broken animals

[urban flax]

Something is broken so let's break something else so the first thing feels less broken in comparison

[limber hull]

not even

something is broken so lets make something broken more broken so it can deal with the other broken thing

escalate one problem further till it deals with another problem, but dont actually fix either problem

[obsidian sphinx]

how would you nerf pachy from update 6?

[limber hull]

Make it no longer able to stun animals on every headbutt above 2x its weight (1 ton at adult weight). Make fractures always cause a stun, regardless of if it comes from a pachy, a cliff, or otherwise. That's it

[urban flax]

Or implement tiered stuns

[limber hull]

i dont really know what those are or what they'd actually achieve

we already have two tiers of stun

idk if we need that many more

[urban flax]

Tier 1 stun : slows down movement a bit, prevents launching attacks but doesn't cancel already launched attacks (what happens when pachy rams a carno)

That's enough to get a jumpstart and run away, but not enough to stunlock and kill

2 tiers is clearly not enough for how many different sizes and statures of dinos we have

[obsidian sphinx]

ok u mean only fracture cause stun so max 3 stuns possible?

[limber hull]

yes

[limber hull]

IDK that sounds... Kinda worthless if it's at the duration of a normal stun. Carno would simply walk at you and mash LMB as you try to turn around and reposition

[urban flax]

It's still got a broken bone
And you're not repositioning, you're running away

[obsidian sphinx]

what about chain fractures? like I hit the head other hit the body and third hit the leg one after other?

[limber hull]

good for you, no more stuns

[limber hull]

if it can move, it can turn, which means if you haven't broken the leg, it'll be coming for you shortly

also stuns are short

[urban flax]

Yeah but it'll either have reduced bite damage or reduced stam

Or pachy could apply a slightly more powerful stun, but not as long as the current one

[limber hull]

idk this tiered stun just kinda sounds like pachy will die a lot more for trying to defend itself, and it'll give Isle players even more levels of stuns and their effects to keep track of, on top of

• Bleed effects
• Fracture effects
• Venom effects
• Diet effects
• Vomit effects
• Unique stats of animals and their respective sizes

Because it won't just be pachy getting these tiered stuns, everything would have to be balanced around them

More animations, more interactions

More balance numbers to think about

[urban flax]

Well for one, I'm on the side that thinks players shouldn't know the exact stats of their dinos
As long as interactions are logical and make sense, there's no need for it

[limber hull]

Even so, that's even more on the fly status effects to think about

And it'd be applied to EVERYTHING that can deal stuns

[obsidian sphinx]

what about stuns from alt attacks?

[limber hull]

Deino, pachy, carno and teno are all animals that'd need to be balanced around the system

[limber hull]

you aren't stunning a carno with an alt-attack

[urban flax]

I disagree. A stun is a stun. If you expect a pachy to srun a carno the same way it can stun another pachy, either you've been too used to a poorly designed game, either you overestimate yourself.

Ramming something stuns it. The bigger your target, the less effective it is.

No player needs to know more than that

[limber hull]

You realise different attacks already have a range of unique stun and knockdown ranges

and adding tiered stuns would add a LOT more numbers to keep track of

No single stun attack stuns like another one does

[urban flax]

You don't really need "thresholds" with this
Just curves

[limber hull]

But the thing is, it doesn't work with curves, that's not how the system is designed

Tenonto, for instance, has different stun and knockdown threshholds on its kick than on its tailslam

[urban flax]

Growth is a curve, you don't need to have "thresholds" to know the exact stats of your dino at 50%, 60% and 80% growth
You just know they increase

[limber hull]

You would have to balance every single stun attack uniquely around this new system

[urban flax]

All of this can simply be handled with different stun damage values

[urban flax]

Every fracturing attack already has its own blunt damage value

[limber hull]

Stun damage isn't a thing and would complicate things even more

[obsidian sphinx]

so if an omni is overly aggressive and I keep headbutting it but it already has body and head fracture and it keeps running me down I cant stun him with headbutts anymore so I have to use alt attacks.

[urban flax]

Current stuns are extremely restrictive in how they work, there is no middle-ground between "felt nothing at all" and "completely immobilized"

[limber hull]

I said this would only apply to animals above 2x pachy's weight. It can keep knocking down omni with every strike

[obsidian sphinx]

then pachys should look out for sub adult carnos above 1 ton.

[limber hull]

i suppose they should

i personally think the whole "subs having extra speed and extra stam" stuff should just be "subs are faster" because it's ridiculous atmk

but i see no issue in pachy fearing carno more than it does now, which is not that much

[urban flax]

Replace the extra stam with improved stam regen

[limber hull]

i'd rather not

that leads to omni juvi pounce spam but even better

[urban flax]

Dosn't the extra stam currently allow them to stay on for ridiculously long times anyways ?

[obsidian sphinx]

The problem is carno is heavier and faster than pachy, even ambushing allos will be a threat.

[limber hull]

only scales with runtime, special abilities consume as much as they usually do

except for carno which scales specifically with running

[limber hull]

"even ambushing allos will be a threat"

are you implying an ambushing allo should not be a threat to pachy

[urban flax]

The juvie running times are absurd tho

No growth level should allow a playable to run indefinitely

[limber hull]

agreed

but i just think the stam buff should be less

rather than increased stam regens, which can have infinitely more negative repercussions

[obsidian sphinx]

allo is like a bigger omni that can ambush pin and bleed u down.

not slight chance of defending

[limber hull]

allo is also much bigger than carno. if pachy is consistently able to deal with it, it's absolutely broken as an animal

[urban flax]

By that logic rex is like a bigger allo with a headbutt
So rex is like a much bigger omni

[limber hull]

therefor pachy should be allowed to deal with rex

[obsidian sphinx]

but rex is much slower cause it is big

[limber hull]

allo is also big

it's almost 1.5x the size of carno

if pachy can punch up to almost 6x its own size

[obsidian sphinx]

big enough to run faster than pachy atleast in ambush

[limber hull]

there's no hope for this creature ever being balanced

[limber hull]

absolutely no proof of that

[urban flax]

Imagine the ambush mechanic returning just so that allo can invalidate pachy's existence

[obsidian sphinx]

allo can catch a galli in ambush and galli is a good runner

[urban flax]

legacy

[limber hull]

legacy

[obsidian sphinx]

concept art

[urban flax]

Bruh

[limber hull]

that galli was clearly caught by surprise lol, and that's not definitive gameplay

[urban flax]

Thinking concept arts are demonstrative of dino balance

[limber hull]

also, again, scaling pachy to allo level? No. Just no

[urban flax]

According to concept art Magy will definitely win against cera 100% of the time since it's shown doing so
But cerato will also win 100% of the time against magy since it's shown winning as well

[limber hull]

according to concept art, a teno will be able to fight off two carnos at the same time effectively

compare that to U6's teno v carno matchup

[urban flax]

According to concept art cama will be fodder to acro

[limber hull]

according to concept art, one beipi can beat 2 monos

(because apparently if they don't draw the mono tearing out the throat of the beipi, it loses in that fight)

oh yea, almost forgot

according to concept art, para loses to allo

@lament pecan they aren't abandoning the roadmap, where the hell are you getting that misinformation from lol

they're making a new one that's actually not horrid

[urban flax]

"How about half of the team stops working and watches the 2 programmers work alone" ?

[limber hull]

they also aren't deleting it to "hide sluggish development", they're making a new one that actually accurately reflects development progress and plans, because the old one was tedious to update

Cera was completely done, yet they didn't update its animations because the whole thing was tedium

The roadmap actually UNDERREPRESENTED the amount of work done

It showed less work than was actually being done in reality

[barren crater]

I do agree with the server list issues though. Been garbage for over 2 major updates

[limber hull]

also, i like how "a new map" is somehow tied into bugfixes, as if the level designer level designing is slowing down bugfixes

[barren crater]

Focusing on performance also makes no sense, since new systems and things added will mean that it could go back to going bad

[limber hull]

ALSO the new map fixes "awful performance and bushy cliffs"

[zinc meadow]

[limber hull]

so like... keep working on it lol

[barren crater]

So you spend 6 months on performance for a build then you make another build and boom. Same issues. Which is why they’ll probably wait until the game is more complete before they purely focus on performance

🤔 although I guess that’s my take from someone who hasn’t worked on a game

[barren crater]

Yeah Gateway is great. Consistent fps

[limber hull]

i have. working on optimisation comes with active development of new features, it is not something that should be done for a single update as a standalone optimisation update

[barren crater]

Also I don’t know how people are still falling off Spiro. The only time I do is when I do something absolutely stupid and deserve it lol

[barren crater]

Ah gotcha. Well performance for this game is kind of hopefully there with gateway. I do wonder what the reaction might be when UE5 doesn’t save Spiro like some people believe

I feel like we’ve seen a lot of UE5 = insane performance gain that will make me finally run The Isle

[chrome urchin]

Is THE NEXT PATCH COMING OUT 6 OR 6.5? opps cap

[limber hull]

6.5 is the next update

[chrome urchin]

ahh good is there a guess on when that may happen or is it between now and who knows?

[limber hull]

no ETAs

shouldn't be too long now, though

[chrome urchin]

Fingers crossed

[limber hull]

so don't worry too much about it, you'll know when it happens

[chrome urchin]

cool was just curious

[limber hull]

all good

[chrome urchin]

ty

[limber hull]

@hasty dagger styraco is confirmed so good news for you

[urban flax]

Omnivore

[hasty dagger]

I know it’s confirmed but as one the old models being brought back and with no hard confirmation like Pachyrhino it could still be dropped

[lapis swallow]

@topaz pendant I would have agreed to this if juvies had very good stam regen to make up for it

[gentle briar]

@rancid raptor

Sorry The Squids yeah your having right Press a Fluid into the Water...

But Penguins.... 😌 sorry i workend with Penguins they Dont press any Fluids into The Water to escape

They Press a lot of Air Out of his Featherdress... that make them more faster in the Water there Bodyform become more Aerodynamic and so they control and mangaged her Slide and Speed in The Blue Deep ( no Fluid many many Air Bubbles ) sorry for this lesson but i found it is Essential to tell this 🫣🥺

[rancid raptor]

ohhhh my bad

i see

It would be cool to see beipi leaving a trail of bubbles

[gentle briar]

👍 😉

[feral solstice]

It’s probably not going to fix much

People think it’s this godsend of an engine, but if you read the forums, some people are getting LESS performance when migrating from 4.27 or 5 to 5.1.

So there’s potential the engine could backfire. Keep your expectations low until you see it for yourself

[nimble nebula]

@tame depot @icy lion why do you guys disagree about the roadmap change

[tame depot]

I do like the idea of more transparency in the roadmap and in general, don’t get me wrong there. However, in game development with things ever changing, I don’t think it’s a good idea and will only aggregate those who we have previously seen push down, blame the devs, etc. because they won’t get something or updates will take too long to get everything done in the list.

I’m probably one of the few who does, but I prefer how the Trello is now, with a single tab about the update, no tied playables except for those tied to a mechanic such as Pachy and troodon. This gives the developers the the fluidity to change and tweak things as needed within the update while we still get to know what it will be, which is much more than most studios provide.

[limber hull]

IDK about you, but I’d rather the devs, who know their own capabilities and limits make their own roadmap, rather than take the ideas of some random people who made a video on YouTube

[tame depot]

^this as well

[limber hull]

The reason their roadmap looks so much better than the current one is because an idealised version of what the roadmap would be in the eyes of the standard Isle player.

Is it realistic? Is it feasible? Is it even possible? No idea, because it isn’t what’s important for these guys, the important part is making entertaining content, not actually developing the game.

Saying you made a better version of The Isle roadmap is guaranteed to get some views, likes and positive response to your video. It’s not about the actual development.

Treat the roadmap video as an interesting idea and nothing else, because keep in mind, the people making the video have no idea what can and can’t be done within the limitations of the staff, engine and project.

They cannot possibly hope to make an accurate or realistic roadmap

[limber hull]

@tawdry pendant weight = health, and 1900kg is WAYYY too big for a mega. Its trot and runspeed are also absurdly overtuned, it does not need to be that fast

also "better than average bleed" gives absolutely zero idea of how much bleed it actually does, bleed doesn't work in stages, it's dependent on the amount of damage the attack does (a stego tail swing does more bleed than a carno bite because it does more damage, and bleed damage is proportional to actual dealt damage)

[tawdry pendant]

@limber hull ofc all those can be changed to however they see fit. I made the speed like that because I cant see it catching much if its slower. I gave it 1900kg aka the max potential weight of Mega irl.

[limber hull]

tenos trotspeed alone makes it nuts

teno has the best trot of any animal in the game, to a ludicrous degree

mega is a sluggish bigass lizard

it would not, and should not, trot that fast

by simply giving it an anti-coagulant venom that speeds up the rate at which the victim bleeds and makes it take longer to heal bleed, throwing on an insane ability to track bleeding targets, mega wouldn't need speed

it'd simply need to wear down its opponents after the first ambush

[feral solstice]

Wait why is it ludicrous

[tawdry pendant]

In your opinion sure, but based on my concept of its venom working in stages, I find it hard to see the Mega getting a bite in if its very slow.

[limber hull]

it quite literally puts every other trotspeed to shame

[feral solstice]

I’d argue that Tenos trot speed should be for most of the playables so they aren’t relying on running

[limber hull]

your concept is also extremely vague in how venom actually works

[feral solstice]

Just improve traveling in general

[limber hull]

"extreme bleed" means absolutely nothing

[tawdry pendant]

Its a slow runner to balance it ig aswell

[limber hull]

that is not a slow runner

37km/hr on a mega is barely slower than a teno

its VERY fast for what the creature should be

[tawdry pendant]

Sprint is 37 not 45

[limber hull]

37 is fast

at least, given everything else

[feral solstice]

Give every playable the teno trot treatment 👍

Make trotting actually useful for traveling Pachy cough

[limber hull]

although idk why you made its tailwhip and bite so pathetic

[tawdry pendant]

Its slower than teno and omni running

[limber hull]

thats not a big deal

teno is the fastest quadruped in the game (confirmed)

omni is DESIGNED to be ridiculously fast

[tawdry pendant]

Exactly and its slower so i dont think its fast at 37

[limber hull]

If it's a 1900kg mega

It's absolutely very fast

mega's whole deal should not be powerful trot and sprint speed

[tawdry pendant]

Carno is over that, and faster. Teno is less than that,and faster

[limber hull]

carno is also DESIGNED for speed

its entire niche is speed

thats an unfair comparison

[tawdry pendant]

And the meg is not hence why its slower than both Teno and Carno

[limber hull]

most animals will be slower than teno and carno

mega being slower is not a big deal

[latent olive]

i had to leave a TF2 match for this

[tawdry pendant]

How much slower would you make it?

[limber hull]

the megaman himself

[latent olive]

but yeah i disagree with that megalania feedback post, respectively

[limber hull]

the megalania fanatic has spoken

[latent olive]

in your post, the megalania is far too big and far too fast

i agree with the burst sprints and the punching up

but the general stats and diets are a no from me

[marsh whale]

no lat and long on main screen?

[limber hull]

i dont want clutter on my main screen, no

i dont care enough about my position for them to be constantly displayed

[marsh whale]

how about toggle it on and off in settings

[latent olive]

also the tailwhip should be the most damage for megalania outside of venom

[limber hull]

that just seems annoying rather than helpful

[latent olive]

because the tailwhips from a varanid are insanely powerful

[tawdry pendant]

@latent olive what whould you change? I reference alot from irl Komodos and Monitors for diet.

[limber hull]

yea, again, why did you make mega's damage so pathetic

[latent olive]

if anything it shouldnt have a specified diet

[limber hull]

(shopping list diets are horrible anyways)

also putting rotten meat as a diet requirement is 🤢

horrible

[latent olive]

just like deino it should have an "eat everything" diet

but deino doesnt have that sadly

[tawdry pendant]

Well irl Komodos dont have an insanely strong bite but make up for with dentition and venom.

[latent olive]

yeah

[limber hull]

That's fine

[latent olive]

the biteforce is not what im concerned about

[limber hull]

But like, it's still got pathetic tailwhip damage

[tawdry pendant]

Idk if a tailwhip would do more than a bite..

[latent olive]

megalania should be MOSTLY defensive in nature

[latent olive]

my man

my MAN

MY MAN

[limber hull]

its like a pool noodle when you could be using slicing jaws that cause insane bleed

[latent olive]

tailwhips OBLITERATE

[limber hull]

i dont think you understand how much komodos use the tails

[latent olive]

have you seen a komodo's tail alone??? that damn thing is PACKED with muscle

[limber hull]

the tail of a komodo is terrifying

[tawdry pendant]

Im not saying they dont compared to a bite

[latent olive]

now imagine that scaled up to 1 ton

[limber hull]

i'd argue the tail of a komodo is as scary as the jaws themselves

they will mess you up

[latent olive]

the stamina pool size for megalania, when referencing the perentie, is a good idea

cos them nutjobs can breathe while running

[tawdry pendant]

Again i studied alot of animals for long bit. Not pro but know enough about certain ones.

[limber hull]

and takes 10% less damage and bleed from anything smaller than itself(reference to the armor of Komodos

just give it a small bleed resist, the weird specific armour against specific small things isn't really consistent

[latent olive]

or even just give it straight up armour

id personally prefer if it gets trample resistance cos low to the ground

[tawdry pendant]

Anything under its weight@limber hull

[limber hull]

i study game design for a long bit, i care more about the niche and balance of an animal in comparison to how it operated irl, especially since we can use the real one as reference

your current design is all over the place in terms of balance

[latent olive]

also the megalania will most likely have a grapple/pin for its venom injection method

[tawdry pendant]

You are picking apart my stats etc but i had to dumb it down by deleting 400+ characters so yeah.

It was way more detailed before @limber hull

[latent olive]

so ideally, its

run in, grapple target, scurry away like the little argonian bastard you are

[limber hull]

even if it were, there are core issues more characters cant fix

[tawdry pendant]

@latent olive i was assuming that as well but thought i might as well throw a concept out there.

[latent olive]

👍

according to kissen, the megalania is going to be lumbering, until you get within its range

which makes sense

[limber hull]

mega should just be slower than most in its size range

[latent olive]

yeah, with a walk like a boss!!

[limber hull]

hell, i'd argue it'd be possibly slower than cera

[latent olive]

https://tenor.com/view/dahliabunni-like-a-boss-gif-22681069

[tawdry pendant]

Agreed. I kinda was going with that but i didnt think the speed was that bad for it. Irl Komdos get up to 13 and thats still fast compared to humans. My Meg is slower Utah, Teno and Carno. Only faster than Utah with a speed burst.

[limber hull]

it being faster than omni at all is terrifying

i dont think at any point mega should be outsprinting an omni, even in a burst

[latent olive]

https://tenor.com/view/hugging-friendship-lizard-beach-gif-26437252

[latent olive]

this just gave me an idea

[tawdry pendant]

Lol def what i want when it comes out

[latent olive]

[tawdry pendant]

Yeah i dont know how sluggish they are gonna make it but if based on irl, its gonna be too slow to escape from most things. I just fear its gonna have no real way of dealing with similar sized carni's.

[latent olive]

thats where the defensive nature comes in, like a cerato

if you get bit by cerato, you get a septic shock and vomit, losing important nutrients

meanwhile if you attempt to attack a megalania, not only do you potentially get a fractured bodypart due to the tailwhip, you might have to deal with insane bleeding

if a carno spots a megalania out in the open, the megalania is effectively dead thanks to the charge

but if a megalania is in an area where the carno cant use its charge, the carno is effectively dead

[tawdry pendant]

Thats my main thought is interactions with carno

[latent olive]

||the trip mechanic ||

carno is also supposed to have a weak bloodpool

[tawdry pendant]

And based on the concept it LOOKS like its the 2 tons it couldve been

Tail whippimg a carnos legs causing it to fracture or trip would be amazing

[limber hull]

also...

tbh i just think mega shouldn't be messing with carno in general lol

i see carno as a major predator to mega

[latent olive]

should a megalania ambush a carno if given the chance? absolutely, the bleed would demolish it

should megalania run like alligator hell if a carno spots it first? absolutely

also
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1083270444985098280/Sauropoda.png

[limber hull]

should a mega wander blindly into plains? No wtf are you doing you stupid lizard you will surely perish without the protection of the forests, waterways or burrows

[latent olive]

inshallah he will be rammed to death by 20 carnos 🙏

[uncut zephyr]

Carno bias

[robust dome]

@ivory cedar the stages are at 25% 50% 75% and 100%

[ivory cedar]

yea but new players dont know that

[robust dome]

I think its fine if they can just learn by playing, leaved a bit of mystery or idk

Im not for but neither against

[ivory cedar]

yea well i just thought why not add it. i dont realy care if they choose to not add it

[sullen cipher]

Guys is it normal that i was able to play as Human when i joined the server EU2?

[limber hull]

probably not. Humans are in the game, but not on officials

[sullen cipher]

it was probably a glich, it was when server went down, i was able to play human for 1 minute, then the server kicked me.

[limber hull]

ah

probably weird config stuff

since humans are a config option

[sullen cipher]

it was in first person

[limber hull]

yea, thats how humans are meant to be

[sullen cipher]

amazing glitch i got xD

[limber hull]

idk if its a glitch specific to you

more a config confusion

on the serverside

[sullen cipher]

Maybe, when i had to chose betwin carni or herbi, i saw in the left bottom that i was able to click on "Generation 2"

[limber hull]

yea

thats what you press to play humans

they're a config on servers, anyone can play them if they play on the servers that have them enabled

[limber hull]

im sorry who tf is saying they want stego op and deino to be weak af lol

spot the deino main simulator

[fallen cargo]

"Deino should be strong enough to contend with stego"

(this is where id put the Buzzlightyear meme with the camera panning out to see the shelf full of Buzz's if i could)

[scarlet ocean]

#general-feedback message Opinions on my post? I wanna know if anyone thinks its a latency/ping issue or is this an actual hitbox issue from omni or pachy, it happened so much during that practice, since we kept healing and fighting again, that it makes me think its a hitbox issue 💀 (I hope its not a hitbox issue, cause that means its not only carno with a hitbox problem)

[burnt bone]

I can tell you its just latency. If you stand still, you can see the hitbox isnt that bad. However, the new hit detection makes the ram much more consistent on the pachy's side, at the cost of looking funky on the target's side occasionally (especially when you have decently high ping, like in the vid)

[scarlet ocean]

Your 100% sure? Also is latency a server side thing, or a me side thing x^x

[icy lion]

Both

[scarlet ocean]

Cause if thats latency, it happens SO much D: it sucks

[icy lion]

It's how the server communicates with every player

[scarlet ocean]

oh ;W;

[burnt bone]

I can test it with you if you want.

[scarlet ocean]

so nothing the devs or i can do to make it better

[icy lion]

There will always be latency in server-based games

[scarlet ocean]

i would like that, yeah =(

[scarlet ocean]

damn D:

[icy lion]

It can be mitigated by improving servers, but you can't really stop someone with 400 ping from joining a server

[burnt bone]

heres an example on why it feels bad (from my understanding at least)
pachy takes 0.5 seconds for input to go to server, server takes 0.5 seconds to register outcomes, omni takes 0.5 seconds to see the effect. As such, the omni sees the pachy and effect happening 1.5 seconds behind itself rather than as it happens.

[scarlet ocean]

that sucks so bad D: I get it now but thats a very big bruh moment

[icy lion]

Our servers are luckily better than that, but yea

[burnt bone]

yeah, its also what makes carno's actual hitbox issue so much worse.

[icy lion]

The TLDR is you add up the player input/output times with the server processing time

[burnt bone]

yeah I was just giving arbitrary numbers for the sake of simplicity. But even with small numbers in a fast paced game like this, it seems like a lot more.

[scarlet ocean]

What im basically getting is, there isnt a fix to it, its just kinda luck based?

Wether youll spike a latency or not?

[icy lion]

Luck-based whether you're up against a player with high ping

Or if your ping spikes, or the server hitches

[scarlet ocean]

maybe the pachy i was practicing agaisnt had high ping? maybe

[rancid raptor]

@scarlet ocean Your ping was 86. It wasn't a game hitbox issue, it was a ping issue. You should have acknowledged your ping and gotten out of the situation

The pachy hit you fair and square, mechanic-wise, but when your ping is high - of course it'll look weird

[mental cradle]

I like your idea of ​​comfort mechanics to avoid mixpackers

[rancid raptor]

it's the only way to fix mixpacking

there needs to be disadvantage in mixpacking

[gentle flint]

Once again bumping this because I don’t want to retype it every time someone suggests a debuff

[urban flax]

This should be pinned honestly so there's no need to look for it everytime brings up that sort of debuffs
But it isn't completely exhaustive on all the issues of a proximity debuff tho

[rancid raptor]

Debuff occurring 10 minutes after consistently staying tgt?

[urban flax]

Already mentioned hundreds of times, it changes nothing
It just makes the debuff useless

[rancid raptor]

What other way is there of preventing mixpacking, there is none

[gentle flint]

There’s lots of ways, you just have to be creative.

[urban flax]

The only real fix I can see, that wouldn't be abused or harm normal players more than it would harm griefers, is to have them emit megapack scent (or a specific mixpack scent)

[gentle flint]

One of the upcoming ideas which will be implemented soon is migration, which should help. Sure it might not eliminate it but there’s definitely ways to mitigate it.

[mental cradle]

If I remember correctly, when the migration system comes out, each dinosaur will have to migrate to its own feeding area, it is possible that when this comes out, the herbivore mixpackers will end, surely the tenontos will have to go to a place where neither the pachy and stego can be fed, since their diets are not there

[urban flax]

So it doesn't actually ruin hunts because you can still hunt a prey for a long period of time, even if you stink
It doesn't harm players who just happen to be chilling at the same spot
Yet it hinders griefing mixpackers from forming kill squads around the map

[mental cradle]

It may work, the disadvantage would be herbivores that coincide with their feeding zones.

Speaking of this mechanic, do you know when it will be implemented?

[urban flax]

With gateway

[obsidian jetty]

also...would a Cerato sitting around near a bunch of Dryos where both parties are tolerating and mostly ignoring each other be considered mixpacking? The cerato knows it won't catch them, the dryos know it won't catch them, so there's no need for them to engage with each other.

[mental cradle]

and what is that? sorry for my ignorance xd

[urban flax]

New map

[gentle flint]

U7 I think

[mental cradle]

oh thanks :D

[urban flax]

With the "scent" version it would simply trigger. People who are "debuffed" are not aware of it, so it changes nothing in their behaviour. People may just avoid them since they might smell them and believe it's a mixpack.

[mental cradle]

It's not that, it's when they help each other, that's what bothers people

[obsidian jetty]

so...just because there happen to be dryos where you like to sunbathe...or the cera likes to sunbathe where you chose to raise your dryo babies...everyone now knows exactly where you are...mh....

[urban flax]

Everyone in the vicinity knows roughly where you are, yeah

I don't think it's that much of a problem honestly

But I assume that if you're sunbathing you're not trying to be stealthy anyway

[obsidian jetty]

that's true enough and I wouldn't mind that mixpack scent to come back but it's not quite as...issue-free as it sounds...as you might not even know there's other things around and wonder why on earth people keep looking for you

[urban flax]

Why would people be looking for something that could potentially be a group of murderhobo pachies and carnos tho ?

The mixpack scent means something you should avoid, not something that you should go investigate

[obsidian jetty]

because people hate mixpackers and want them ded? 😄

[urban flax]

I don't know of many people who can take on mixpacks on their own and kill them

Also most people who are vocal in here hate mixpackers and want them dead
You just put a red skull symbol for the scent, and people will instinctively avoid it

The minority of people who would go investigate anyway are there so mixpacking doesn't make you instantly safe from potential predators

Also it turns it into a mechanic you may choose to engage into or not, as opposed to a debuff that people could use for trolling. Well I can see a herd of dryos following a cerato to make it stink and prevent it from hunting, but... I'm not sure how effective it would be

Wait now I'm thinking of a dryo doing this to a rex and I'm beginning to see an issue

It would be a matter of gauging how precise the scent cloud is
If it's too precise, anyone trying to hunt near someone who is trying to annoy them with the scent will be screwed
But if it's too wide, it won't allow to effectively allow mixpackers

[obsidian jetty]

the thing is...the game can't...really tell what is or isn't a mixpack...it can just say "5 dinos, different species within 15m of each other" and...yeah...uhm...that's what I think is a bit iffy

[urban flax]

Although since you don't see that you are under the effects of the scent, it could discourage trolls
Because they have 0 indication that what they're doing is working

[urban flax]

It doesn't matter
If a pack of raptors is hunting a stego and they start emitting mixpack scent, why would they care ? It only means people are less likely to come and interfere with the hunt
And if they DO want reinforcements, all they have to do is to use their calls

It's not a "mixpacking scent" per say, think of it just like the megapack scent that triggers when there's a lot of dinos around
But when said dinos are of different species it triggers sooner, because mixed smells are easier to notice

[obsidian jetty]

well I don't mixpack personally, I usually just ignore everyone who isn't a threat or food...if someone attacks them that's their problem. Maybe that's why having people smell me because I choose to not kill everyone around me kinda rubs me the wrong way I guess.

[urban flax]

It's only a debuff if you're trying to ambush people
The "normal" situation (what I hope would happen) is that people would tend to avoid you

And if you wanna go hunting, I don't think it would be that hard to go away from your dryo friends

[robust dome]

i killed a stego as 3 raptors yesterday, I died and another raptor died pretty early. Steg isn't taht strong if u are experimented (I didnt read any of what u said but u talking about stego balance so)

[urban flax]

We were'nt talking about stego balance

[robust dome]

well then im jsut flexing ig

[urban flax]

I understand your concern tho, I myself am not certain on how good or bad such a mechanic would be honestly. But I firmly believe that it would be better than straight-out debuffing people of different species who happen to be in close proximity to each other.

[obsidian jetty]

ye it definitely would be better than a debuff.

[scarlet ocean]

It's more a latency thing yes, figured that out not long ago xD but not entierly, just spent the past hrs testing lots of pachy things back and forth with a person, and its ever so slightly a horizontal pachy hitbox for some species

[burnt bone]

heres the thing, that dryo could also just spam 1 call and get better results

[urban flax]

true

[rancid raptor]

1calls should not cause debuffs bruh

perhaps it can cause some buffs in terms of coordination in packs but debuffs for other creatures? idk maaan

[zinc meadow]

Didn't interpret it as such, the only debuff you'd get is that people now know there's something where you are, due to the broadcasting

[compact flare]

True

[icy lion]

@ivory cedar That's how fracture currently works

Pachy just deals enough fracture damage to break most things in 1 hit

[proud coral]

Severities for fractures are also planned :3

So it won't always be "broke or not"

[ivory cedar]

yea well i find it wierd that pachy can fracture carnos leg with just 1 hit to the leg when carno is over double the weight of pachy

[trail gulch]

can someone show me evidence that the devs have even tried, let alone acknowledged the abysmal lag issues

[nimble nebula]

tbh I still miss spero maybe a smaller version of spero would be cool even though I know spiro was supposed to do such

also would like to see the forest type map make a return like v3

[limber hull]

"make daytime twice as long and make night twice as short."

aka "make sure troodon is unplayable on launch"

[latent olive]

i was waiting for you in this channel to make a response

[limber hull]

thank you

[latent olive]

my brain is too massive

[limber hull]

I'm thinking of writing up a whole-ass diet rework tbh

[frigid briar]

Troodan is the type of dino that will get its playtime at launch and die out in a week or two. I reworded what I meant cause It was nearly 3am and I was bored sitting in a bush while it was night. Still stand by what I said though, the game is visually beautiful and I would like to run around more than sitting around waiting for daytime.

[limber hull]

if night is that short, then yes, it will die out in a week

daytime is already longer than night

[safe hearth]

Funny :D, just yesterday I stopped the time. To determine how long the night is in relation to the day.
Assuming that the night begins at 5:45 p.m. (Sun sets slowly) and the night ends at 5:45 a.m. (Sunrise)
Then the night lasts 20:40 minutes. From 5:45 am to 5:45 pm it is 30 minutes.
To make it fair for the Troodon, the night would only need to be extended by 10 minutes.

[limber hull]

id argue also that atm, the "game is visually beautiful" isn't that valid, since the lighting is in a very weird spot, and spiro's very bland

water looks really nice tho

[safe hearth]

but yes that is the problem with nocturnal animals. I'm curious how they solve it.

[safe hearth]

of course the troodon has an advantage at night. Because its nightvision is better.
but I wouldn't say the Troodon is unplayable by day.
During the day you can collect the diet for his mechanics.
So that you are ready for the PVP at night. That can also work during the day. When you set an ambush.
Then it comes all together: How good is your team and how good is the victim.

From the descriptions of the devs, you need a lot of skill to play his mechanics correctly. there was also talk of the troodon glowing slightly at night. with a kind of bioluminescence.
I don't know if that will be implemented.

[limber hull]

idk, the whole concept of "collect the diets during the day" sounds like a fancy way of saying AFK AI farming

[safe hearth]

well it's still better than doing completely nothing at all and waiting in the bush for the night. 😄

in the end everyone has to decide for themselves how to use their time.
But I wouldn't say that the Troodon is completely useless just during the day.

[robust dome]

@urban flax @burnt bone (not pinging everyone)
Hey guys, i just wanted to know why you don't like the part 2 of my suggestion but not necesseraly the part 1, and if also do, then why ?

[nocturne spruce]

This is abusable
What if a carnivore is sneaking around you, following your herd?
Suddenly your dinosaur starts reacting, and now you know there is a carnivore in the vicinity?

[obsidian sphinx]

yes, one day is enough to grow back troodons that died previous night. Retreat, Restock, Regroup.

[robust dome]

I stated in the part 2 something about that

Basically long cooldown and close range

Before the effect kicks in

[nocturne spruce]

What if you're following the herd for more than 5 minutes?

What if I, as a troodon, want to annoy stegos and use that mechanic to sabotage them while they're unable to hit me?

[obsidian sphinx]

This reminds me of HYSTERIA mechanic in Ancestors : A Humankind Odyssey

[safe hearth]

nice. it shouldn't take much longer either. they are rather small.

[urban flax]

I downvoted the part 1 as well
I just think proximity debuffs are lame for a hundred reasons

[robust dome]

If u follow a herd, close enough, for 5 minutes, u have been heard already because of your footstep. Also it doesnt have to be 5 minutes it can be more its moee of an exemple

[nocturne spruce]

"If u follow a herd, close enough, for 5 minutes, u have been heard already because of your footstep."

According to what? Is it possible for them to not see me or hear me for 5 minutes while I sneak around them?

[robust dome]

Being ? Cuz I'd argue debuffs are less lame than mixpacking. K acknowledge the potential drowback but it seems worth to me

[urban flax]

Here are a few of the reasons

[lapis swallow]

What about people just countering the system by staying far away from eachother and just helping out once they need help? How is it gonna deal against that?

[nocturne spruce]

It's not a good mechanic, because it's objectively bad in certain scenarios

[robust dome]

Thats why there would be a cooldown and a certain range. Im not saying my idea is the ultimate way to prevent mixpack. But if we play on the CDs and range. We might get something that kinda works

[lapis swallow]

Because a system that can be countered by social distancing, something all of us should be experts at lol, is not a good system

[robust dome]

As I said, the cooldown doesnt reset. Therefore after a while of getting close to fight a dino, it will trigger

[nocturne spruce]

It's not even a good way of preventing mixpacking at all

The only way to prevent mixpacking is migration, where species will have differing priorities and points of interest

[lapis swallow]

So the cooldown never goes away?

[robust dome]

It is. Unless you have a better idea I believe this one is far from being bad, while far from being the best

[robust dome]

Yes ? So?

[nocturne spruce]

your idea is very bad, no offense.
Migration will fix mixpacking

[lapis swallow]

So let me just debuff a few nesting stegos as a herra real quick.

That will get abused

And what about fast playables just forcefully applying the debuff to slower playables? How do we deal with that

[robust dome]

I dont take offense dw. But idk how migration will work. If it spreads the species across the map, its something that I proposed. But its also something we can argue isnt gonna fix everything since I doubt all herbis, when the game is complete, will be at a far enough spot from each other.

[robust dome]

U didnt read, herbi to carni would only affect the carni

[nocturne spruce]

It's not something you proposed, it's something that was in the planning way before you even joined the server

[robust dome]

I know. But its something I mentionned in my part1

[nocturne spruce]

Atm mixpackers don't need to split up. But with migrations, they will need to split up

[lapis swallow]

Thats a really bad idea, so galli could just debuff rexes as long as it wants?

[robust dome]

Thats a fair point, although the range might be something really close, which would put them at risk, I dont doubt players are good enough to just avoid a rex but still stay close enough

[nocturne spruce]

Debuffs brought by anything else than physical contact is a joke.

[lapis swallow]

They are. Some people will get good enough

[robust dome]

Yes

[lapis swallow]

I mean, poison nades for mercs would be cool

[nocturne spruce]

..galli is faster than rex. even the worst players in the game will avoid rex

[nocturne spruce]

That's physical

[lapis swallow]

*chemical

[urban flax]

He's kinda right
You're making a physical conctact with the poison gas

[nocturne spruce]

It creates a debuff upon physical contact

[lapis swallow]

Ok

[nocturne spruce]

She/her, please

[lapis swallow]

You are right

[obsidian sphinx]

completely valid more motivation for stegos to stop mixpacking and start killing anything that abuses it.

[robust dome]

But its not physical from 1 playable to another🤓

[nocturne spruce]

player 1 is the secondary source that leads to the physical impact, primary source is the nade 😁

[robust dome]

Then range not physical

In videogames, a character that has range attacks is not called melee

[lapis swallow]

You make physical contact with the gas of the poison nade

[robust dome]

But not with the player

[nocturne spruce]

Bullet is primary source, gun is secondary source, person holding the gun is third source. It's simple lol

[lapis swallow]

That does not matter here

[robust dome]

Getting hit by an arrow in ark doesnt mean it became physical bcs u touched the arrow. But i doubt thid is an interedting debate

[nocturne spruce]

Person shooting the arrow is the third source

[robust dome]

Which makes it ? Ranged

[nocturne spruce]

person throwing a nade is secondary source

It's ranged but still physical, caused by a player 😆

[urban flax]

Sry I default to using "he" over the internet

[nocturne spruce]

ranged attacks are not physical all of a sudden? Guys hypsi's spit attack isn't physical, it's illusional

[obsidian sphinx]

Does anybody know hysteria mechanic in the game ancestors humankind odyssey?

[robust dome]

Ranged attacks were never ever physical. Idk what u sayin

[nocturne spruce]

Ranged attacks aren't physical?

[urban flax]

I think you're confused on what "physical" means

[nocturne spruce]

I was about to say

[obsidian sphinx]

"Ur words arent physical so they dont affect anything."

[nocturne spruce]

if i spit at you, it's physical assault.
if i throw a rock at you, it's physical assault.

if someone throws water/soda/whatever at you, it can also be labeled as physical assault

[limber hull]

yea melee and physical aren't the same thing

[obsidian sphinx]

So point is stimulation of senses, Herbivores can smell carnivores at a certain range and become alert. More time they spent in the range more Fight/Flight response kicks in. Trike being a fighter 3-calls, Para being skittish 4 calls and alerts half of the island of predators' presence. Ur preferred diet becomes insane under ur presence only solution is to bite or attack or 3 call to reduce insanity. sort of intimidation mechanic, it is not physical but psychological.

[urban flax]

Simulating psychological responses in a game in which the player is supposed to represent the psyche of a creature is terrible game design.

Especially if the game in question is a horror game. My dino should be afraid when I, as a player, am afraid. If a horror game tells you your character is afraid when you, as the player, isn't afraid, it's failing at fulfilling its very purpose.

[obsidian sphinx]

u mean troodons helping humans navigate through the night?

[limber hull]

what

tbh, i think the issue of mixpacking "solutions" boils down to "two animals of different species being near each other" is not actually always inherently a malicious thing

[urban flax]

Uh, no

[limber hull]

punishing people for being near other species isnt just punishing mixpackers, its punishing tons of types of players

[obsidian sphinx]

sometimes the game has to force horror in ur mind.

[urban flax]

Yes, it has to do so in MY mind
Otherwise it's a bad horror game

[limber hull]

a baby carno can hang with an adult teno and they dont fight

does the teno/carno deserve to go manic with bloodlust? No, nothing inherently bad is going on, it's just how it is

There's a lot more complexity to mixpacking than just "animal with other animal"

A lot of these active mixpacking "fixes" either force the game to be even more of a PvP bloodbath, or give new avenues to just punish some animals for just existing by abusing the system to apply debuffs to randoms

[urban flax]

I remember one time when I was playing as ptera in the old toilet pond. There were pteras on one of the highest rocks, omnis a bit lower, tenos grazing around in the forest and the pond was filled with deinos. Everyone was tolerating each other without cuddling or making friends, with proximity debuffs it would have been considered the biggest mixpack ever and everyone would have died although no one did anything wrong

[obsidian sphinx]

u dont know how smart herbis are irl, teno will see small carno as a future threat that better be disposed as quickly before it takes down its future generation.

[limber hull]

And this is what we can lose with this, actual scenes and situations that feel NATURAL and fun

[limber hull]

no? that doesnt apply for all animals

i fully advocate for letting things chill tf out

just.. vibe

[urban flax]

And that's when the players ocmes in
It's up to the player to decide if they want to kill the potential future threat or not

[limber hull]

dont worry about stuff for a moment and just hang out

if you wanna kill the baby carno, do it, idc

but being FORCED to kill the baby carno is a different story

[urban flax]

If you want people to behave exactly like animals, and don't have an actual choice in what they're doing... why are you even playing a game in the first place, just watch a video

[obsidian sphinx]

This means if u are in close proximity to ur own species u wont go insane.

[limber hull]

if im fine with hanging out with a baby carno, i'll hang out with a baby carno

[limber hull]

its not even that, because lots of animals do "mixpack" and hang around each other

so it's not even making things natural

its just making a clunky problem that hurts more than it helps

[urban flax]

So the anti-mixpack mechanic becomes 100% useless as soon as there's more than 2 people mixpacking ?

[limber hull]

lmao

[urban flax]

1 carno and 1 teno suffer debuffs, but 2 carnos and 2 tenos are fine
Got it

[limber hull]

also get screwed solitary animals i guess

your niche involves solitary play? sucks to suck

[obsidian sphinx]

2 carnos mixpacking with teno then teno will get insane, 2 tenos mixpacking with carno then carno will get insane also insanity inflicted could also depend on weight.

[limber hull]

most of my favourite moments from this game have involved absolutely not a single animal dying and people just hanging out for a short while. a mixpack debuff would ruin that and turn these peaceful, somber moments into another boring bloodbath

[urban flax]

And what about 2 tenos and 2 carnos then ?

@mental cradle Yes but Tupandactylus instead
It's the same thing, but not midget-sized

[obsidian sphinx]

2 carnos 3600 value to each teno , having one teno 3600-1600=2000 still tenos will become insane.

[limber hull]

okay so carnos are just fine

no insanity for them

[mental cradle]

Well, I would like more pterosaurs, there are only the pteranodon and the quetzal

[obsidian sphinx]

tenos 3200 insanity to each carno, 3200-1800 = 1400 insanity value.

[limber hull]

this sounds horribly complicated and unfun

[obsidian sphinx]

it is complicated for mixpackers

[urban flax]

Ok but you realize forcing insanity on dinos just for being around each other is terrible right ?

[limber hull]

its complicated for everyone

[urban flax]

And for everyone else
What about the situations Wave and I mentioned earlier, should those not exist and be replaced with mass murder instead ?

[limber hull]

you realise animals aren't always near each other for the purpose of mixpacking

hunting, eating, crossing paths, literally just vibing

troodon walks near a stego and immediately goes mad with visions of cthulu?

[urban flax]

What about those times when as pteras we decided to mass on a rock in the middle of deino-infested waters, because it was actually the safest place to be ?

[limber hull]

oh yea, that brings a good point

[mental cradle]

what are you talking about? tupandactylus is planned?

[limber hull]

the 8 ton deino would be giving off 8000 of these insanity points

so you'd easily be able to detect them

[urban flax]

Or when I, as a juvie pachy, stumbled accross 2 adult carnos who decided to not kill me for some reason ?

[limber hull]

making deino entirely goddamn useless

[latent olive]

no it isnt

[obsidian sphinx]

insanity will start building up and only solution is to bite,attack or 3 call to keep it in check.

[urban flax]

I mean that if there was to be a third pterosaur added, I would like it to be tupa instead of tapejara, because tapejara is tiny

[limber hull]

sounds horrible and just encourages PvP bloodbath deathmatch

no fun allowed i guess

[latent olive]

do NOT circle overhead of those carnos !

[limber hull]

how DARE you rest near a friendly stego

dont even THINK about sharing your food with that juvi omni

[mental cradle]

Well, it's something big, they could put it as an omnivore and also that its hind legs have many functions, although it would be something heavy to be on the branches of the trees

[limber hull]

dont you know that in nature no animal ever likes being near another animal and will immediately kill anything that gets close

[lapis swallow]

I love how those people keep suggesting stuff to prevent mixpacking when something like that is already on the way with migration

[urban flax]

The days during which I could feed fish to starving omnis as a ptera are gone I guess

[limber hull]

and thats done way better

[limber hull]

sorry idiot thats mixpacking

[lapis swallow]

I always kill somebody when they get within 6 feet of me

[limber hull]

you're giving them VALUABLE food and thus are helping them

[urban flax]

[limber hull]

i'll vibe if given the opportunity to vibe

[urban flax]

I just wanted to feel like I am their god

[lapis swallow]

Irl

[urban flax]

The very first iteration of taming in The Isle

Feeding other dinos with fish so they obey you

[limber hull]

you will never understand the joy I got from having literally every animal in the game in a big circle. Deinos on one side, pachies on another, some tenos, some stegos, some omnis, pteras, even some hypsis and dryos, EVERY animal was just here and hanging out by the log in South East

I honestly don't know how like 20+ players all managed to vibe in the same area and not go slaughtermode

it was so cool

[lapis swallow]

All of them were high (this is a joke, pls admins dont ban me)

[obsidian sphinx]

in the end these arent actual creatures but social monkeys controlling the dino who know other playables are controlled by other monkeys. The goal is to make player immersed as an animal that relies on instincts to survive and not on discord chat.

[latent olive]

admins ban him

[limber hull]

thats not immersive

[lapis swallow]

NOOOOOOOO

[limber hull]

making me forced to kill random juvis isnt immersive

its boring and i dont want any part of it

[lapis swallow]

I kill randoms juvies as a ptera, I want them lungs

[urban flax]

Back when I was at toilet pond in my earlier anecdote, we actually made a functional ecosystem there
Pteras were feeding off fish, deinos were feeding off each other and the occasionnal raptor who tried to catch pteras and fell into the water, and tenos, well... they're herbivores

[limber hull]

there is nothing realistic about constantly seeking out the next thing to kill and constantly kill everything near them

[obsidian sphinx]

then u can play as humans in the game.

[urban flax]

Also from time to time a carno would come out of the woods and get slaughtered by the tenos, and the raptors could feed off the scraps of its corpse

[limber hull]

the hell even is this argument

you havent addressed any of my points

how does playing human solve any of these issues

let me put it this way. if im playing hypsi, i dont want to go insane because everything is a billion times larger than me because i dared enter its proximity and i cant fight it because im a literal pathetic little bird that cant fight for the life of it

you arent solving anything, you're just punishing anyone who doesnt want to engage in bloodbath mode

[urban flax]

Bruh just play rex like everyone else

[limber hull]

i dont want to engage in bloodbath mode 24/7

[obsidian sphinx]

It depends on what devs have plans for them. they could be forest rangers that control population on island (legal hunts) or straight up monsters wrecking havoc everywhere they go.

[limber hull]

i happen to like player agency and freedom, both of which this game provides. not a fan of you taking that away

[limber hull]

awesome, so instead of going insane, we get our brains blasted out by a forest ranger for daring to be near another animal!

sounds really really fun, cant wait to lose all my hours because an omni pack decided to stalk me

[obsidian sphinx]

might be

[limber hull]

totally a fair and reasonable response to a non-issue that's related to an actual issue

you do realise that mixpacking is more complex than just animals occupying the same small space

its them helping each other to kill things they otherwise couldn't unfairly

[obsidian sphinx]

just spit in the eye insanity set to zero problem solved

[limber hull]

dryo

how about that, what exactly do i do about that

i assume just accept insanity

[obsidian sphinx]

dodge or 3 call or bite

[limber hull]

so... mixpackers can just spam 3 call

and be immune to the debuffs

awesome, this solves nothing

[obsidian sphinx]

in the end u cant trust anybody in the isle

[limber hull]

???

[urban flax]

That's absolutely not the point

[limber hull]

buddy that doesnt solve me spamming 3 to hang out with my deino stego mixpack

if im in a discord call with a stego as a deino, all we have to do is spam 3 and be completely unpunished

no "trust nobody" stuff

we know we can trust each other because we're in a discord call

[obsidian sphinx]

I mean if u and ur friends can tolerate the 3 calling then go on have a blast.

[limber hull]

so it SOLVES NOTHING

it only punishes people who aren't mixpacking

wtf lol

[latent olive]

if anything it incentivizes it

[limber hull]

people just hanging out and vibing are punished more by this system than the actual mixpackers who are the entire reason this system was even conceived

you've managed to not only miss your target, but instead shoot a random bystander in the process

[obsidian sphinx]

hanging out and vibing isnt mixpacking?

[limber hull]

in this system it is

[urban flax]

No
It bothers no one

[limber hull]

no one is hurt by literally people just minding their own business and hanging out with another species for a short time

if they aren't doing scummy things like trying to kill everything together, who tf cares

[obsidian sphinx]

short time till insanity creeps in

[limber hull]

im going to bed you are genuinely baffling

i dont know whos messages you're reading

your replies entirely don't match what you're replying to

[obsidian sphinx]

I am slow at typing

[limber hull]

thats not the problem

"no one is hurt by people minding their own business"

"short time till insanity creeps in"

how does that at all correlate lol

unless you're saying they SHOULD be hurt

in which case that's dumb

you're just punishing people who play peacefully and not punishing the actual problem players who mixpack to wipe people out

[urban flax]

What if going insane was a buff all along ?

[obsidian sphinx]

it could for certain bruisers

[urban flax]

But that's even worse

This conversation is getting ridiculous
I mean, it was ridiculous from the very beginning but now it is even more

[obsidian sphinx]

imagine cerato starting to chuff and intimidate playables it has low tolerance to.

[urban flax]

That's a complete different thing

Chuffing is a mechanic specific to cerato, and it has nothing to do with mixpacking buffs or debuffs

I don't get anymore what even is the idea behind that "insanity" mechanic you're trying to suggest
What's the point ? What's the goal ? What's its purpose ?

[hollow vault]

@oblique creek I sorta agree with you but at the same time I don’t. I agree that sometimes people have very stupid ideas (I still remember when people suggested kaprosuchus) but just because some suggestions are bad doesn’t mean this channel as a whole is horrible. Some of the ideas here could really benefit the game and make it better as a whole

[oblique creek]

I agree with that aswell. There are a few individuals who put some real thought into their suggestions aswell. It's more directed at alott of the stuff that goes around the general discussion that is useless

[hollow vault]

I personally found that suggestion about the pachy hitting the tail resulting in a bone break very helpful

Just an example of a good suggestion I found

[burnt bone]

I didn’t like or dislike the first one because I agree with the part about herbivores, but disagree about the proximity debuff for carnis. Personally I’d prefer if it was just the mixpack scent but expanded upon. Like my suggestion here: #general-feedback message

[rough pier]

sup

[rancid raptor]

i don't see a point in having ptera and tapayara when we know we're going to have quetz

one of them will be played very little. Unless the player cap increases by that time

[urban flax]

They're entirely different

[rancid raptor]

3 fliers, ptera and tapayara won't be very different in terms of gameplay and them being close to harmless

[urban flax]

The fact we have both allo and rex doesn't prevent the existence of omni, right ?

[rancid raptor]

how is comparing allo and rex the same as comparing tapeyara and ptera?

[urban flax]

They're about just as similar to each other

[rancid raptor]

Absolutely not

Allo almost as similar to rex as tapeyara is similar to ptera? No

[urban flax]

You say all fliers are the same because they can fly, but then all non-flyers are the same as well because they can't fly

[rancid raptor]

Quetz won't be the same or even comparable to tap or ptera, but ptera and tap are very comparable

Another example is omni and utah, those won't co-exist so well unless player cap is increased

Can't believe you brought up rex vs allo, in a tapeyara vs pteranodon convo

[urban flax]

bruh lol
Ptera is 4x the size of tapejara
They don't have the same diet (piscivore == frugivore)
They would have different capabilities in terms of flying and locomotion

[rancid raptor]

Tapeyara and ptera co-existing will never be a thing. Until player cap increases, it won't be considered

[urban flax]

If the conversation was about adding Hatz on top of Quetz, then I'd agree it's a duplicate. But you can't say that about tapejara and ptera

[rancid raptor]

TAPEJARA and PTERA is way more comparable than ALLO and REX

[urban flax]

If you want to criticize it, you'd be better inspired to say that it would be too small to be interesting, rather than saying it's identical to ptera

[rancid raptor]

Tap and ptera: both are close to harmless

Allo and rex: their danger levels are way more differing

[gentle flint]

Only if the devs chose to make it that way

[urban flax]

Then hypsi, taco, homalo, oro and dryo shouldn't exist

[rancid raptor]

their impact on the environment differs way more than tap vs ptera

[urban flax]

Oh and troodon and velo as well

And I guess minmi too because this thing won't hunt

And proto

Judging something just on its combat ability is just narrow-minded for the isle

[rancid raptor]

look at dryo rn. is there a significant dryo playercount in servers?
It's one of the most unplayed dinos

It would be the same with ptera and tap unless playercap is increased. You can't deny this what so ever.

[urban flax]

People play ptera consistently
Dryo is actually unfinished

[rancid raptor]

Ptera is the only flier in the game, that is why it's played consistently

[rancid raptor]

The only unfinished thing about dryo is its burrow, ain't it

[urban flax]

But ofc seeing as how busted carno and deino currently are, most people will just play these two, leaving little room for any other playable

[urban flax]

Literally it's main mechanic but yes

[rancid raptor]

Tap and Ptera will never, ever, co-exist until playercap is increased.
Reason being that once they've settled into the environment, one of them will become extremely small in playercount

[gentle flint]

It’s strange to complain about something that’s not even in the game so you don’t even know what it does.. every dinosaur has something that makes it different than the other so far. How can you complain that people might not like it’s future abilities?

[rancid raptor]

same with utah and omni

[urban flax]

How so ? They'd have very different playstyles
It's not like every ptera player will switch to tapejara, or the other way around

[rancid raptor]

Omni and utah
Ptera and Tapeyara

They will not co-exist until playercap increases, we know this

[urban flax]

It's really unfair comparing them to utah and omni, these two are way more similar
Even then, I can see utah and omni having different niches and playstyles

[urban flax]

I'll have you know this person knows everything better than anyone else

[rancid raptor]

Utah is beefier

Ptera is beefier

[urban flax]

It's not just that

[rancid raptor]

What then?

[gentle flint]

Is it confirmed that the player count won’t increase with gateway? Because that sounds more like your chief complaint here.

[urban flax]

Already told you
Herbivore/piscivore
Different locomotion behaviours
Living in different biomes
4x size difference

[urban flax]

I don't think anything has been said recently about player count

[rancid raptor]

I'm not complaining about playercount not increasing , I'm not even complaining at all lol where did you get this from? with all due respect

I'm stating, factually, that utah and omni + tapeyara and ptera will NOT co-exist up until playercount is increased

I don't think playercount should increase with gateway, because optimization isn't good enough for that yet

[rancid raptor]

You only mentioned the size difference

[urban flax]

Nope

[rancid raptor]

You did, but okay.
Regardless, tap and ptera co-existing will not happen up until playercount is increased
Same goes for omni & utah

With troodon, cerato, beipi and other new dinos coming into the game - one of those very similar alternatives stated above, will get played way less

[gentle flint]

It’s literally right here.

[urban flax]

Oh what is that

[rancid raptor]

I can see ptera and quetz co-existing prior to playercount upgrade, but would never happen with tap and ptera

[rancid raptor]

I didn't read it

[gentle flint]

Lmao

[urban flax]

I figured

[rancid raptor]

I was writing while you posted it

Quetz and ptera can co-exist prior to playercount change, but it will never happen with tap+ptera. accept that fact

[gentle flint]

The reason it seems like the player count is your issue is because you keep bringing it up over and over again by the way.

[rancid raptor]

if anything, tap has a larger chance becoming an a.i than becoming a playable

[urban flax]

I will accept the fact that you still somehow can provide absolute certitude on what you say without providing any argument, evidence or backing.

[rancid raptor]

You put words into my mouth by saying I complained about player count
I've stated several times in the past that it should not increase up until optimization is fixed

[rancid raptor]

I have provided argument tho, you probably didn't read it

[rancid raptor]

Also, I bring it up because it's the core thing that prevents utah and omni from co-existing

[gentle flint]

I mean it really doesn’t..

[rancid raptor]

They won't co-exist in a healthy way unless playercount is good

[rancid raptor]

You can't deny this milk

[gentle flint]

I can?

Humans are humans, they’ll play what they want regardless. I still see people playing Dryo and hypsi all the time despite being “useless”. Are their numbers lower? Sure! But people have fun with it.

Just because an animal is “pointless” doesn’t mean no one should have the chance to have fun with it. It’s a game.

[rancid raptor]

You think omni and utah would have healthy co-existence with our current roster, + the 3 new dinos that are coming out + other dinos in the future?

Selection rate will inevitably lead to one of them getting outpicked, which will lead to it getting neglected

And you think they would co-exist in a healthy way in a 100 player limit server

Don't know how that logic works out

[gentle flint]

That could be said for all dinosaurs Lmao, and I’m sure by the time we have those magnificent other-roster-candidates (very far in the future mind you) they’ll PROBABLY have worked on performance by then. Just a guess.

[rancid raptor]

It's not pointless and I never implied it to be. But those two will never co-exist properly in a 100 player cap server

[rancid raptor]

:pp No it cannot be said for "all dinos" because not "all dinos" have a near identical counterpart such as utahvsomni

[gentle flint]

You.. don’t know that they’ll be identical though. That’s the whole point. As a matter of fact, they’re so far from identical, that’s why they changed Omni’s name.

[rancid raptor]

Yes, they will*** have worked on performance by then, and that would make them increase playercount before getting utah and omni in co-existence

[rancid raptor]

utah and omni are very alike regardless, they will be very similar

[gentle flint]

Again, not really? I don’t know if you noticed but the devs are trying very hard not to make abilities copy and paste here.

[rancid raptor]

They changed omni's name because they wanted to add a more realistic utah, but that won't happen until playercount increase

[brittle night]

@charred lantern that's already planned

[urban flax]

@charred lantern Elders are on the roadmap, and they're quite literally exactly ho you've described them
But they'll be stronger than adults at first, then grow progressively weaker

[rancid raptor]

It's not going to be a copy paste, it's going to be 2 not so different alternatives which will need a larger player count to have a healthy co-existence

[gentle flint]

Yeah and again, by the time they ever get here, that probably won’t be an issue so I don’t know why you’re bringing it up.

[rancid raptor]

What won't be an issue

[charred lantern]

i play this game for more than 5 years and i did learned that they are planing that.

[brittle night]

Elders and perks are for update 7, which is after update 6.5 which is the next we will be getting

[brittle night]

https://trello.com/b/G5tsb4XI/public-roadmap

[gentle flint]

The player count. Because you keep mentioning it. They’ll be able to co-exist because, presumably by that point, a lot of performance issues will be fixed. Same with Tapejara and Ptera. Unless you have ANOTHER reason why they shouldn’t be added because so far that’s really all you’ve brought up.

[brittle night]

This is the roadmap for the game updates, but the devs will be releasing a new roadmap when the next update drops

[charred lantern]

ok ,thanks.

[rancid raptor]

Those 2 comparisons, even though they are quite similar in terms of their impact to the environment, will have no problem co-existing - only if they're in a larger playercount than 100. For them to co-exist, they need more than 100 playercount.

Why do you think they're not developing utah or tapeyara now? Why are they developing other types of dinos instead, and waiting with utah?

Perhaaaaps because the playercount isn't ready for it?

[urban flax]

@tidal rose Ideally growing a juvie will be the fun part. Also, dying as an elder will provide you bonuses for your next life, it's something you will be looking for. And I think the devs also mentioned that you could theoretically never let your dino die, but it's gonna be weaker than an adult.

[gentle flint]

Then what the hell is your point? If it’s already a non-issue

[urban flax]

I like elders being forced, because it turns the game more into a cycle, in which death is normal rather than being a setback

[rancid raptor]

I said they will have no problem co-existing in a larger playercount than 100, but they would have problem co-existing in a 100-playercount.

Which I now helped you agree upon.

I never said our playercount is an issue, I said it would be an issue if utah was in our roster with omni rn

or tapeyara and ptera

[zinc meadow]

[gentle flint]

I’m just trying to understand your point quite honestly. I literally don’t see why you’re trying to argue for something that’s literally already happening.
And I actually don’t agree upon the player count argument, but I can at least put it aside for your sake.

Utah already isn’t in the roster, and isn’t planned to be for a while, so.. what are you trying to say? That things should continue to go exactly as they are currently? Great! Problem solved.

[rancid raptor]

You do agree, actually, because it's undeniable.
Utah and Omni would not have healthy co-existence in a 100 playercap, with such a large roster as we have.

And the reason why utah isn't being worked on consistently, and why they're working on species that aren't similar to our current species, is because similar species do not co-exist good in a low playercap

[gentle flint]

I don’t agree, because people are people and this is a game and humans will play how they want despite what’s “healthy”. I don’t know if you noticed, but more than half the server right now is deinos and carnos. That’s not healthy. But people don’t care.

[rancid raptor]

Milk, if you were right about it not being a problem, why didn't they start off with handing us very similar species from the start?

Why did they instead of doing what you suggest, do the opposite? And introduce very different species that aren't much similar at all

Why are they WAITING with the similar species?

[tidal rose]

Being able to not be an elder in turn for being nerfed in to the ground is dumb. Elders should be 100% optional

[gentle flint]

Again, why is this an issue LMAO? You’re literally getting what you want! XD
You’re just arguing for no reason. I was legitimately trying to grasp if you had a thought bouncing around in that skull of yours because I want to see what your real issue is, but there’s nothing there. If you have something, please state it more clearly because I’m obviously too dumb to grasp it.

You want better performance which leads to better player count which leads to a healthier roster co-habitation. Great. That’s happening. Unless you have another point there’s literally no reason to continue.

[rancid raptor]

@gentle flint Why do you think they're waiting with similar species such as utah and releasing different species such as beipi, cerato and troodon first? etc

[gentle flint]

Jeez maybe because.. they aren’t similar? Gasp!

[urban flax]

The "forced elders" make me think of The Isle as a roguelike, which is my favorite game genre. If they manage to make The Isle as enjoyable in dying over and over again as it is in a roguelike, it's gonna be awesome. Unfortunately, forcing players to die at some point is a necessary part to reach that sort of gameplay.

As soon as you pick a dino, you're gonna die at some point anyway. Just with elder, you've got a reason to try and avoid dying as soon as you reach adult.

[rancid raptor]

? Wdym, the species being similar isn't the problem. It only becomes a problem according to the circumstance they're released in (low playercap for example, or environment/map)

So what circumstance is preventing them from releasing similar players now, and instead choosing to release them later?

Bc it seems to me you're avoiding that question

[tidal rose]

@urban flax look dude i love roguelikes too but ive never played one that kills you with old age. Plus unlike other games you put in a LOT of time to grow a dino. I value 5 hours of my time way too much to frow a dinosaur that will expire like milk lol

[rancid raptor]

Didn't they mention that it'll become an option?

[tidal rose]

Usually dying is something like a hazard such as a cliff, predator etc. Thats part of survival. Old age is just arbritrary time limits

[icy lion]

Dying from age will be optional, aging won't be

[gentle flint]

Again. I’ll say it slowly for you.
They. Are not. Similar.

And also maybe it’s like.. the devs only have a certain set of models to work with so they have a very distinct lineup of what they’re working on.

[rancid raptor]

Omni and Utah are not similar?

[tidal rose]

Yes aging is the problem though

[urban flax]

Yeah, I agree the time investment is a lot. But many games put a hard limit on how long you can play your character. Old age is just one way to put it, among many others. It's fundamentally the same as reaching the final level and seeing "game over" in any other game. You can't play that character anymore, but you've won.

[gentle flint]

See the miracle of not having a dinosaur in game yet is that you have LITERALLY NO IDEA how similar they are until it’s in game lmao, so they could be vastly different than what you see now. Wild, I know

[gentle flint]

I wasn’t talking to them now was i?

[rancid raptor]

I'm going to post pictures of a utahraptor for reference, they are similar

[rancid raptor]

I'm posting his message to show you that you're disagreeing with both me and him rn

utah and omni are similar

[gentle flint]

Yeah, I’m not afraid to disagree with him.

Please, post pics. Make your argument more coherent.

That’s all I wanted to begin with.

[rancid raptor]

I can't find a realistic picture of a utahraptor, but do you know what a utahraptor is

[tidal rose]

@urban flax dying from old age isnt winning no matter how many perks they give you lol. I simply dont want to participate in it. Many games have a you win screen, sure and then its over, sure but that doesnt mean i have to invest 5 maybe 8. Let that sink in. 1/4th of my day to grow a apex if i wanted to. Assuming i grow it in one go. 8 hours and my dinosaur will turn to a prune.... why? Its not worth the time

[gentle flint]

Do you know that Omni is a fictional creature and has no real life accurate representation so comparing the two actually has no point?

[urban flax]

That's assuming it will be 8 hours... If dying of old age as a rex takes like 30 hours, that's not a problem, is it ? You would have died to other causes in that time anyways.

[rancid raptor]

"newdinosaurs"

[icy lion]

That's a pretty poor reconstruction of a utahraptor

[urban flax]

NO
You can't post that as an argument for saying omni and utah are similar

That's not an utah

[rancid raptor]

you agree that utah and omni are similar right, i'm very sure gator is in denial rn. with all due respect

[icy lion]

The skull isn't even right... no feathers? Pronated hands? Not bulky??

[urban flax]

They're not that similar
My point was that they're more similar than pteranodon and tapejara are
It was a comparison

[icy lion]

Using a horrible reconstruction to make the real animal and the JP animal look more similar than they wre is pretty cheap

[rancid raptor]

Not "that" similar, but they are similar

[tidal rose]

@urban flax that is an assumption. Ive had utahraptors that last weeks. Yes i did fight orther dinosaurs. No i didnt sit in a bush. Utah is a hour to grow, but still i can last pretty long on it. Ive had a ptera un an official server for months.

[urban flax]

Just like ptera and tapejara are more similar to each other than dryo and brachi are
And dryo and brachi are more similar than rex and a cockroach

[icy lion]

The devs want there to be a clear difference between them, like the difference between a black bear and a polar bear (paraphrasing Bryan)

[rancid raptor]

You're calling me cheap now? I even said I was having trouble finding pics

But it's very undeniable that they are similar

[icy lion]

No, I'm saying it's a cheap tactic

[gentle flint]

The reason you’re having trouble finding pics is because the first ones that pop up are arguably more accurate.. just a simple google search of “utahraptor” shows it.

[urban flax]

And you still could. But you could also decide to lose that one dino, get a nice "you won" screen, get bonuses on your next life, and start playing again. Just imagine growing isn't a chore but is actually fun and engaging.

[rancid raptor]

Why do you even call it a tactic, you're making it sound like I chose something wrong on purpose. Regardless this conversation is between me and gator

He disagrees they're similar, but fact is that they are

[icy lion]

I'll grab one of Fred's utahraptor recinstructions, he's a great paleoartist

[rancid raptor]

oxford utahraptor

is this a good utahraptor

[gentle flint]

You asked them because you think I’m insane

[tidal rose]

But it is a chore. You are literally just a copy of an adult that is worse in every way. You could argue deino juvies are different as they are faster on land apparently. But growing is a chore

[rancid raptor]

No, but you're wrong about them "not being similar"

[tidal rose]

The real fun only happens when you are a full adylt

[gentle flint]

You’re looking at that and you’re telling me you see an Omniraptor?

[icy lion]

Yup, that's Fred's

[tidal rose]

@urban flax responded forgot to tag you

[icy lion]

Currently the team wants the accurate utah to be bulky and very powerful, compared to the slim and nimble bleeder that omniraptor is

[rancid raptor]

Can you tell me of 2 species that will be in the isle roster, that are more similar than omnivsutah? @gentle flint

[urban flax]

This can be fixed

[tidal rose]

Albertosaurus and rex are similar.

[gentle flint]

I don’t know the roster so.. no, I can’t, sorry lmao

[icy lion]

Allo and alberto are apparently both gonna be ambushers but I think you're looking for visual appearance

[rancid raptor]

I never said I was looking for visual appearance, so no

[icy lion]

Mono and dilo are ""similar"" the way omni and utah are ""similar""

[tidal rose]

@urban flax yes but till its fixed i get to have my opinion. If they make juvies fun somehow then sure whatevs. But right now its a slog

[icy lion]

Sorry, so far it seems you've been basing the concept of differences based on their appearance. We don't quite know how utah will play yet, so it's impossible to know how different they are from each other right now

[faint folio]

Id assume it takes way longer to reach elder and then die than it does to grow... Look at horses. Arguably adult and able to reproduce at 2. Fully mature at 4-5. They live 30 years, give or take. Lions are similar, but live 20 years. Also if eldering and dying of old age is going to drop perks and/or be required to unlock strains, then I want the time input to be ridiculous so that is hard to do

[rancid raptor]

I have not even implied, 1 time, that my argument is on similarity in appearance

[rancid raptor]

Omnivs utah is the most similar species that will be in the isle roster, which is why I used them as an example (main exanple)

Right now, our devs are releasing (and have released) very different dinosaurs (beipi, troodon, cerato, pachy, stego, carno, deino) - and they haven't released any 2 species that are noticably similar.
Why do you think it's not the other way around?
(don't avoid this question another time, please)

[icy lion]

I won't be surprised if it ends up the same way that acro and giga did, where everyone assumed acro would just be another bleeder

[rancid raptor]

Why is it not the other way around gator

[tall hearth]

This you?

[gentle flint]

If you aren’t going to read my answers to it and accept them, I just won’t answer it at all lmao.

[icy lion]

I would ask how you know how utah is going to play and the abilities it will have, but your answer will be "because I know", right?

[rancid raptor]

You didn't even answer it

[gentle flint]

I have been. Would you like me to tag you in the times that I have?

[rancid raptor]

This is not an answer, it's denial

You deny that they're similar but even @urban flax knows they are

again not "That similar", but they are similar

[rancid raptor]

You avoid the question because you know the answer is;
The reason it's not the other way around, is because utah and omni would not do good unless we had a larger playercap

[gentle flint]

Aw you remembered, how sweet.
I’ll say it again because I mean it.
THEY ARENT SIMILAR XD
Even the devs don’t want them to be carbon copies. It’s been said multiple times.

[tall hearth]

They may have elements that overlap but they wont be 1:1 in playability

Like diablo and ava

[gentle flint]

And again, you’re arguing the player cap. Which as we’ve determined, is already a non-issue. I said if you had any other arguments other plan playercap, please bring them forth.

[trail gulch]

thank you

[gentle flint]

I know some other devs mentioned it but I couldn’t recall who off the top of my head ^^;

[trail gulch]

i just wanted reassurance that they are trying

because its practically unplayable for my friends and I

we always start off having so much fun

then we all die to severe fps drops mid fight

then we get off the game mad

cuz we imagine getting big and fighting stuff together, then when we're like 75%, we get bum rushed by a carno or something and the fps drops are too bad to fight back or run away

just yesterday that happened again, except my friend and I were omnis being attacked by carnos. They went for him and he lagged out and died, then when i tried to use that opportunity to run away, my game froze for a few seconds, unfroze, froze again, then stuttered, making my inputs do nothing, and they caught up and molly wopped me

just extremely frustrating

but i now know not to call that lag, but instead call it an optimization issue, cuz people aren't like teleporting around or anything, its just massive performance drops

[limber hull]

oh my god EU OMNI is apparently somehow a goddamn prophet that knows how every animal is going to play lol

what a ridiculous discussion

[urban flax]

When even Lunary gets condescending you know it's an extreme case

[prisma stump]

hey guys just died to a deino claiming he was fully grown, but he was about my size as 50% grown. I just can't believe that deino stop growing in size around the 50 mark???

why would a deino 50% be nearly close to the adult in size?

[urban flax]

They don't, the other deino was probably wrong or giving false info

[prisma stump]

How much bigger do they get I was around 4.6 tons

[urban flax]

I'm not sure on how the growth curve of deino is, but it definitely gains a lot of size and weight after 50%

[urban flax]

Full-grown deino is 8 tons

[prisma stump]

the thing is I bit him in the head twice as many times and still lost

actually more than that bc he was afk at first

he only needed like 4 bites lmao

He was literally the same size, could this be some kind of hack?

[limber hull]

hes literally acting as if he knows everything better than everything else despite having zero proof

[limber hull]

he probably was full grown then lol

[urban flax]

Maybe he was indeed bigger and perspective deceived you ? That, or lag, or hitboxes being finicky, or cheating indeed

[prisma stump]

so deino just stops growing

[limber hull]

deino starts fattening up in the later stages of growth, rather than growing longer

[prisma stump]

bruh he looked so small tbh, maybe i'm just cracked up

[limber hull]

younger deinos can appear the same size, but the adults are much chunkier

[gentle flint]

If they were really cheating I doubt you’d last four bites to be fair..

[prisma stump]

thanks anyways, just felt somewhat sketchy

[urban flax]

tbh I'm not aware of damage or invulnerability cheats in The Isle, so I'd be surprised
I only know of speed hackers and location hackers

[prisma stump]

yeah same

but on god I bit him like full stam alt bites to the head

I was 50-60% grown

and that was before he came back from being afk

[gentle flint]

I’ve definitely seem damage hacks before, they one shot anything. Commonly named one is like.. BABY or something like that, asks if you wanna play a game and then one shots you lol

[prisma stump]

bruh

[gentle flint]

And I’ve heard of invulnerability cheats with other deinos hanging up on a hacker deino as full growns but it never dies, though I’ve never seen that one personally to confirm.

Growth hack would be odd though of all things.

[limber hull]

hacks only work with that which is client-sided

if the server is the thing keeping track of your growth, you're probably fine

[prisma stump]

Do you guys know what the point of alt bite on deino is besides turning?

[lapis swallow]

It has faster attack speed

[prisma stump]

I just tested if for myself but didn't get any difference

has this actually been proven?

otherwise it's a very slight difference to say the very least

[gentle flint]

I’ve been ambushed and won with alt biting even though they got the first bite

I’m not sure if it’s faster or just more powerful but it’s different in some way at least

[prisma stump]

yeah it seems to be maybe 1 bite faster if biting for 8 sec

[rancid raptor]

There is no damage cheat in evrima, gator

There is only speed cheat currently