general-feedback-discussion

[gaunt turret]

they are quite fast in evrima tbh. but if a rex manages to sneak up on you, let’s say during the night, and if they still get leg break implemented, it’s probably game over for a lone stego.

[urban bear]

yeah he stated that a few months ago, then filipe said they dont use it

[gaunt turret]

however this is all in theory. who knows how the mechanics for rex will be.

[vestal rune]

filipe said that, not punch lol

[quasi vault]

I've heard from plenty of stress testers that the majority of them were mixpacking cuddle pansies that cry in general if you kill them

[gaunt turret]

or speeds.

[vestal rune]

maybe, but I definitely know there are people who know their stuff on the stress test

and the community in general is like that anyway

[quasi vault]

The problem is its only a very small group

[urban bear]

which is what I said yeah, punch said they read feedback and flipe said they dont use it

[vestal rune]

I don't think filipe speaks for punch, who is the community manager

you know, the guy who's WHOLE JOB is working with the community? he's obviously gonna be reading feedback lmao

[urban bear]

Yes he can say things but when fIlipe says WE dont use your feedback I would think hes referencing the whole developer team

[vestal rune]

and thre's literally a direct example of player feedback reaching filipe himself

[quasi vault]

Also, take the pounce changes for example. They were implemented last minute, shoved into update 5, and most of the feedback from the stress testers that I've heard is overwhelmingly negative

[vestal rune]

or maybe the programming team specifically?

do you think filipe knows what every individual dev does on the dev team?

[crisp topaz]

Reading feedback and utilizing it are 2 completely different things and a lot of ✅️ doesn't = implemented

[urban bear]

The 2 people? theres more that goes into making the game then just the programmers lol

[quasi vault]

Absolutely

[vestal rune]

I don't even know why I'm argueing this, there's literally direct proof they look at feedback

[urban bear]

nobody said it meant that

[urban bear]

theres also proof they dont lol

[vestal rune]

what proof?

[crisp topaz]

Feedback channel disagrees with your statement

[urban bear]

steams, developers saying they dont

[urban bear]

how is that?

[vestal rune]

you mean ONE developer, who has gone on record he's bad at explaining things and who's first language isn't english? lol

[quasi vault]

Its a small dev team, that have regular meetings and a road map. Ofcourse he knows what the other devs are doing

[vestal rune]

that one statement that could have been mistaken goes against the whole history of the game and direct evidence that they listen to feedback. seriously?

[urban bear]

he very clearly knew what he was talking about and continued to explain in detail why they dont use it and what they do instead

[vestal rune]

I think there's 20+ devs on the team

[urban bear]

13

[crisp topaz]

It's a trend that you can see clear as day. People make suggestions and then other people get mad when they have dozens of reactions from other players and then don't see those changes in game. Like optimization for the easiest example.

[quasi vault]

Exactly. Small.

[vestal rune]

oh actually it may be 15

[quasi vault]

Especially when theyre split into departments

[vestal rune]

like you are so hyper analysing on this one statement when there's direct evidence that THE SAME DEV reads feedback

it's like talking to a brick wall

[quasi vault]

Yes it is like talking to a brick wall, because the devs don't listen

[urban bear]

Yeah they can have upvotes, but that doesn't mean anything that just means people like the suggestion but nobody ever said the checkmark guarantees its getting implemented some people may thing that yeah but thats on them

[vestal rune]

devs do listen, I gave numerous examples of them listening

[urban bear]

when was there an example of feedback being used lol

[quasi vault]

Legacy examples

Examples from 2016

[urban bear]

when the dev team was completely different

[vestal rune]

the whole expansion of the dinosaur gameplay
progression being scrapped for survival
numerous balance changes
them directly considering feedback suggestions

that's only the ones I can think of

[quasi vault]

I really do miss those days

[vestal rune]

also why would they listen to feedback in like 2018 but suddenly stop now?

[heady warren]

A lot of things have happened, but they seem more like firefighting than player feedback responses

[vestal rune]

you do realise this is the dev team that harmed their own profits by recoding the game to make sure it can be good right?

[quasi vault]

Because the game is far bigger now

[vestal rune]

and that's relevant because?

it was fairly big in 2018

[quasi vault]

Im talking about 2016

[heady warren]

It feels much more obscure now than it did back in 2016

[vestal rune]

iirc the decision to totally scrap a whole gamemode took place in 2018

[urban bear]

Dinosaur gameplay was always desired to be expanded upon even in Legacy that would be common knowledge lol, you think feedback made them realize the gameplay loop they already knew was lacking needed more flesh on it? no balance changes we really know for sure we influenced by us and I have only ever seen them consider using 1 suggestion

[vestal rune]

I'm trying to double check

[quasi vault]

The days where you could just hop in a call with a dev, dm one without them ignoring you.

[heady warren]

unless you say the D-word. everyone knows about the Isle when you mention the D

[lapis swallow]

coastal pachy was suggested

[urban bear]

hypos were always part of the picture and they always wanted to implement them into the gameplay loop lol that wasn't off of feedback alone

[quasi vault]

Dude tf you mean feedback alone

[vestal rune]

no I'm talking about how originally the game was planned to only be humans playable with AI dinos, then humans with 3 carnivores, then humans with a whole massive cast of dinosaurs, this was all due to player feedback

[quasi vault]

The strains were part of the kickstarter

[heady warren]

I remember when they said they werent working on hypos and then it turned out all the GMs had access to hypos and used them against players

[urban bear]

yeah again, 2016 examples "its like talking to a brick wall"

[quasi vault]

They were always gonna be in the game

[vestal rune]

and I just stated that the progression switch took place around 2018

and I also gave you an example that happened TODAY

[quasi vault]

Dude, that was just the beginning

[urban bear]

we not talking about 2016 or 2018 were talking about the current developer team in 2022

[quasi vault]

Back when they didn't have the funding

[urban bear]

you gave 0 examples you have just been saying they have used it with nothing behind it

[quasi vault]

They always wanted to be more ambitious

[vestal rune]

no do not twist the developers own words, this was due to palyer feedback

[urban bear]

Again that was in 2015 being the very start of the game lol

[vestal rune]

I literally said that the filipe himself considered the popular NV suggestion but decided against it because of technical limitations

[quasi vault]

The devs have gone back on their word so many times

[vestal rune]

and that happened today

[urban bear]

when did he say this

[vestal rune]

like I said, today

[urban bear]

proof?

[urban bear]

ok

[quasi vault]

Changing it literally wont work?

[vestal rune]

oh I just rememberd another one where someone had a suggestion for venom and the devs directly told them that they were considering adding it

that was in evrima time iirc

[urban bear]

that doesn't mean he red it lol probably clicked on the link and took a look at it and came back

[vestal rune]

????????????????

[lapis swallow]

bruh

he sent you proof and you say "thats invalid"

[urban bear]

The guy provided a link that he probably used to look at the suggestion lol

[quasi vault]

That doesn't mean it came directly from the community

[vestal rune]

makes a judgment call about its suitability to be implemented "nah he didn't read it"

[vestal rune]

YES?

[vestal rune]

it was a suggestion from someone in the community

[urban flax]

Wasn't it the "applying venom with pounces" thing ?

[vestal rune]

maybe? I don't quite remember it I think it was on the steam forums

[urban bear]

He red it but he probably didn't read it until he got a direct link rather then looking through the feedback section of the discord

[heady warren]

Copium is a helluva drug 🤣

[quasi vault]

Dilo had venom in legacy

[vestal rune]

even if that's true, so what???

[quasi vault]

Kinda

[vestal rune]

no I specifically remember it was in evrima times

god I wish I could find the post itself but it's probably deeply burried by this point

[urban bear]

if you have even been remotely reading the conversation we are talking about the developers reading community feedback as a whole instead of getting direct links to it

[vestal rune]

what

[quasi vault]

Dilo in legacy had strong anticoagulant venom, thus leading to the extreme bleed it did

[urban bear]

I could go in isle discussion and give links to feedback suggestions to the devs and they would read it

[vestal rune]

someone FROM THE COMMUNITY gave him a link made by someone FROM THE COMMUNITY and he considered it

[sand oar]

in short it just had high bleed

[lapis swallow]

it just had good bleed, thats it

[vestal rune]

yes so that means they read suggestions what the hell is going on

[quasi vault]

Yeah, but the devs said it was venom

[vestal rune]

it just had high bleed, it was a substitute for actual venom

[urban bear]

ITS A LINK that proves nothing in terms of going through community feedback, he got a link to a single suggestion and clicked on it

[quasi vault]

Even though its Kirkland brand venom

[heady warren]

I loved when Dilo had the poison. Did they just nerf for a while it or completely remove it?

[vestal rune]

but it's a suggestion from the community he viewed?

you are creating a disctinction where there is none

[quasi vault]

Dilo had high bleed because of anticoagulant venom

Never poison

[vestal rune]

filipe's job isn't even to just casually scroll through general feedback, that's punch's job

[urban bear]

it is, but we are talking about reading the communites feedback, he looked at one suggestion that he got a link to lol, that proves nothing in terms of going through the community's feedback and even considering it

[heady warren]

okay

[icy lion]

That was the lore reason. In game, it was just bleed

[vestal rune]

ok but he looked at a community suggestion yes? after interacting with the community?

[quasi vault]

Yes, but it shows they had the venom idea, thats what im getting at

[vestal rune]

which isn't even his job because he's a programmer not a community manager

[lapis swallow]

its punchs and kissens job

[urban bear]

interacting with the community, I agreed with you that on that a while ago, and he looked at one community suggestion he got a link to that proves nothing lol

[vestal rune]

and punch(the community manager) has gone on record stating that he looks through general feedback

[icy lion]

Filipe isn't the shader artist, he would have to confer with them to know whether there are technical limitations to that

[vestal rune]

no. your point is the devs don't listen to feedback. I gave you an example of the devs listening to feedback, it's that simple

[urban flax]

Punch occasionnally just comes into the general feedback discussion
I don't know why he would do that without reading the feedback channel

[vestal rune]

I didn't even consider this, thanks super

[urban bear]

we not referring to NV I'm aware Filipe can't do much about NV

[lapis swallow]

never saw him there

[vestal rune]

it was an NV suggesstion, so it was surely discussed internally before

[quasi vault]

Im specifically talking about listening to feedback after the implementation of the QA team

[icy lion]

You were referring to a comment in which he responded to a suggestion about NV, yes?

[urban bear]

he got a direct link to said feedback I would hope he reads it

[urban bear]

it was being used as an example

[urban flax]

I saw him a few times, not super often tho
I'd understand if he has better things to do than to speak in the general feedback discussion channel

[vestal rune]

very weirdly specific point that doesn't make much sense but ok, I gave an example of them listening to feedback

[lapis swallow]

ok

[icy lion]

And the fact he knew there would be technical limitations, when he isn't a shader artist, would imply that it was brought to the shader artist, right?

[vestal rune]

ok but what superlunary just said proves that isn't true. It was an NV suggestion, filipe doesn't work on NV, so in order for him t oknow there are technical limitations means that this was discussed internally before he clicked that link

[quasi vault]

A single example. And it is specific, because of what Filipe said. They listen to the QA team and ignore the rest of the community

[urban bear]

I would think filipe would know what technical limitations it would have since he did program much of the game and its mechanics

[icy lion]

But he doesn't work on night vision, because he isn't a shader artist

[heady warren]

Not necessarily, it would imply that he thinks there would be limitations. You cant assume he has checked with anyone unless he says so.

[icy lion]

I'm aware, but the implication still exists

[urban bear]

but you said technical limitations which would regard the game and its code would it not? the game would be limiting the NV that was suggested

[heady warren]

Implications are never facts.

[vestal rune]

it was a community suggestion not from the QA team so Idon't get your point

[icy lion]

I'm aware of that

[urban bear]

and considering filipe is a programmer it would assume he some what would know what hes talking about

[vestal rune]

you guys are making implications by listening to what filipe said and going "EVERY SINGLE DEV NEVER READS ANY FORM OF FEEDBACK"

[icy lion]

It very well could, it'd just depend on how much Filipe has to interact with NV on his end

[urban bear]

Yes it could, but what im saying it when he looked at it he could have known it wouldn't work based on his own knowledge

[quasi vault]

My point is in Filipe's last stream he literally stated that the devs ignore the general community and only listen to QA feedback. Thus, any feedback implemented before the creation of the new QA team is irrelevant

[vestal rune]

iirc he said that QA feedback is more useful than the general community, but not that they literally never listen to it

[quasi vault]

He said they ignore it

[sand oar]

twisting a lot of words there

[vestal rune]

judging by the wording (where he says several technical issues exist), it suggests that this was already discussed by the team

[quasi vault]

Im literally not, but ight

[vestal rune]

I think it's crazy that you guys are taking the words of a person who has gone on record to say he is not good at explaining things, something he said in an hour long stream, and using that to make crazy conclusions

face it, the history of the game shows that they listen to feedback, that is a fact

[urban flax]

Didn't Filipe just say the community can't be trusted for balance feedback ? Which is like, number 1 rule in game balancing ?

[urban bear]

its possible it could have been discussed internally yes I'm not going to deny I could be wrong there but right now with the comments that have been said and the fact he got a direct link I'm going to say that by the fact filipe is a programmer its possible that he could have known

[vestal rune]

does anyone have the clip where he actually talks about it? I wanna hear his actual words

because I remember hearing it and being like "hmm that seems reasonable" not "WHY AREN'T THEY LISTENING TO US?"

[urban bear]

the history, you do realize in the history of the isle there has been multiple different dev teams

[vestal rune]

WHAT???/

[quasi vault]

How come he literally only learned about the epilepsy problems and headaches caused by night vision on that stream. It was literally all over the feedback. The only way to not know about it is not looking.

[urban bear]

bryan and dondi are the only 2 original devs from the start lol

[vestal rune]

he doesn't work on NV so maybe it didn't reach them

[quasi vault]

Fair

[vestal rune]

maybe from the literal beggining, but kissen has been here for ages, baardo has been in here for ages, hypno has been here for ages, punch has been in here for ages

[urban bear]

yes but there has also been many devs that have come and gone

[vestal rune]

you're acting like the dev team got completely switched out when it's pretty much the same apart from a lot of new people

[urban bear]

its almost and entirely new group of people now and its the most stable dev that they have had

they had different programmers sound designers etc

[vestal rune]

BRUH

I JUST WATCHED THE VIDEO CLIP NAHHH NAHHH 😭

[urban bear]

how do you think path of titants started lol

[vestal rune]

he literally goes "you guys can give feedback but I PERSONALLY don't trust it"

[vestal rune]

I tihnk there's 2 former isle devs on PoT?

[urban bear]

and then if you keep watching he says "why dont you let the public stress test? because we cant trust absolutely anything you guys say"

[lapis swallow]

@regal remnant what do you mean? They are reading it

[vestal rune]

ye because they did a public stress test and practically found out that it wasn't useful for them

[regal remnant]

loool

[vestal rune]

like, I'm honestly surprised the people complaining aren't on the unofficial subreddit, this is the exact same thing those hater boners say

[urban bear]

and that's only 2 of them, there has been sounder designers now work on primal carnage other devs that have just left, I don't know all of them but the dev team is not the same as it was

[quasi vault]

@crisp topaz yeah bro, just a few people are unhappy with performance. Not like its almost everybody who has played the game

[urban bear]

i think you are ignoring the fact they said WE CANT TRUST ABSOLETLY ANYTHING YOU GUYS SAY

[vestal rune]

oh ye I guess dinosauriac was an original dev that left, I can also think of looter, but like I look at the dev list and I see MANY familiar faces

[heady warren]

This is exactly like reading the isle reddit

[vestal rune]

yes because a public stress test is highly unorganised

[regal remnant]

dinosauriac isnt on the pot team. but the primal carnage team iirc

[crisp topaz]

Why would they fix something now when it could break again later

[urban bear]

that's not changing the fact that he said we cant be trusted lol

[regal remnant]

ah yes let bugs become worse.

[urban bear]

or they could spend time fixing it now to lower the risk of breaking it later?

[quasi vault]

Because for many people the game is practically unplayable

[cyan flame]

Didn't he just mean that they can't trust balance feedback and all that much because one part of the communtiy thinks x is op, the other part thinks y is op, and then the third part doesn't care at all. And so on. Making it rather hard to get good feedback on balancing just from the community?

[vestal rune]

ye it isn't lol, it's putting that fact into context

he's not saying "ALL THE COMMUNITY IS BAD" he's saying "the general community makes for a poor public test"

[cobalt ibex]

.

[vestal rune]

which I agree with, because once again the public test gave bad information

[crisp topaz]

Good thing it's early access and not a completed game. That would be bad.

[crisp topaz]

That's not how bugs work lol

[urban bear]

He did say that yes, but that sentence alone has its problems, and saying you can't trust your own community isn't particularly good to say on a live stream

[vestal rune]

no he's saying that they can't trust them in a stress test, stop twisting his words

[quasi vault]

Its still a game nonetheless. And its still bad if it is literally unplayable

[cobalt ibex]

I don't understand why people feel so personally attacked from this.
just let it go, and don't try to make a drama out of a fly

[urban flax]

You know it's never a good thing to trust community regarding balance for a game ? That's like, the worst thing to do

[urban bear]

I'm not twisting he words at all, if you kept watching the clip is also said "so what we do is we normally take feedback from people we trust like qa or stress testers but I'm still skeptical about stress testers"

[quasi vault]

Because if they ain't on the QA team, they know that they don't get a say in anything, and their opinions and experiences in game mean nothing

In other words they don't get a voice

[vestal rune]

ye that doesn't change anything

[urban bear]

the community plays the game and I know some people will have a bad experience vs one dinosaur and they go complain about it thats not good feedback. But when the entire community is complaining about 1 dinosaur being op thats enough to say something wrong

[urban bear]

LMFAO

[vestal rune]

filipe goes "I don't think the public can be trusted in a stress test/balance and prefer the opinion of QA/stress testers" and you take that and go "all the devs NEVER listen to the community"

[cobalt ibex]

Yeah, and they respond to feedback like that ?

[urban bear]

he said they use qa and are skeptical about stress testers for feedback, yeah that doesnt change anything

[crisp topaz]

You must not know about review bombing and it shows.

[urban bear]

lol

[urban flax]

Actually it's a chain
It's literally written in the balance feedback channel description that QA will be monitoring this channel
So the community post feedback, QA reads it and transmit the useful ones to the dev team

[vestal rune]

wait they use QA? no way damn happy they use the people who signed an NDA lol

[urban flax]

The entire community has never complained about one dino

[urban bear]

when has the isle been review bombed

[urban bear]

carno

[urban bear]

stego

[cobalt ibex]

Yeah, and see where Carno is now ? carno was changed => feedback was taken in ?

[crisp topaz]

Every time an update drops?

[cobalt ibex]

Kissen said stegos days are numbered at least

[urban bear]

I think your overlooking the part where he before that says he doesn't trust community feedback then goes onto say how they actually use feedback

[cyan flame]

The entire community did not complain about one dino, because you'll always have some people thinking it's fine and some thinking it's not fine

[urban flax]

No and no. Even in the feedback channel there are people who say these two are'nt unbalanced, and even if every single post in the feedback channel was a rant about how OP their are that'd still be a small fraction of the community

[vestal rune]

for stress tests and balance yes?

that's what he's talking about

[urban bear]

That feedback could have ceom from elsewhere, why did carno get nerfed but not stego?

[vestal rune]

and I think you're overlooking the fact that QA gives community balance suggestions to the devs

[urban bear]

I'm not but like stated they said thats the feedback they use and with comments before that it really doesn't sound like they look at feedbackl

[vestal rune]

punch looks at feedback lol

[cobalt ibex]

And honestly even if the devs weren't listening to the whole community (which I really doubt), so what ?
How many games do you think actually care about their playerbase ? It's already amazing how often "our" Devs interact with us in the chat, and talk to us. + Streams, Monthly devlogs and stuff.

And the game was great so war, it's probably not suddenly going to change because of 1 stream

[urban bear]

and then he was contradicted by Filipe who said they use qa feedback and sometimes stress testers

[cyan flame]

The problem with balancing is that they seem to use feedback rather than testing, no matter who they take feedback from. But that's a slightly different issue.

[vestal rune]

nononon filipe said that's his PERSONAL OPINION, so it doesn't affect punch

[urban bear]

So what? yeah who cares about the community its not important for them to not listen to us

[vestal rune]

remember he prefaces his entire statement by saying "I PERSONALLY don't trust community feedback"

[urban bear]

and then went on to say we cant be trusted, and said they use QA feedback and sometimes stress testers

[urban flax]

This conversation is going circles

[cobalt ibex]

Why are so angry ? ):
Why make such a drama and spread hate ? I really don'T understand

[crisp topaz]

I wouldn't trust it either. It's full of unhinged opinions.

[vestal rune]

no he says he personally doesn't trust it

which once again, doesn't affect punch

[urban bear]

I'm not angry or spreading hate, im brining up a genuine issue

[vestal rune]

one which doesn't exist

[cobalt ibex]

it is ): I just don't get, but I think we all said our piece and this is probably better over

[vestal rune]

ye actually let's stop talking to this guy

[crisp topaz]

The community not getting the gratification it desires is not a genuine issue.

[urban bear]

he said that once and then went on to say what WE will do is get out feedback from QA or sometimes stress testers

[vestal rune]

no point in trying to convince them, clearly they're just hating for hating's sake

they're not the first fr fr

[heady warren]

Its so crazy when people think, we're lucky to be blessed with the presence of the people we're supporting. "We should just be happy with what we're given and feel lucky" is a crazy take to push on a community

[urban bear]

I'm not hating for the sake of hating lol, im brining up genuine criticism if I was really hating on the game I could have said a lot more

[vestal rune]

I mean when you consider that a lot of game studios go completely blank on the community and the isle devs regularly interact directly with us, I'd say it's a pretty good deal

[urban flax]

Just admit that's the most senible thing to do as a dev team instead of taking feedback from 60000+ people that you don't even know

[crisp topaz]

I don't see anyone else developing a game like the isle. So yes, we should in fact appreciate the work they do. Nobody else is doing it.

[heady warren]

the fact that we're even her is proof that there's no hate. we want reciprocation for the support

[urban bear]

Thats why they have to actually go through the suggestions and narrow them down

[crisp topaz]

Oh dear

[heady warren]

No game studios survive on that formula

[urban flax]

Why do that when QA can do it for them ? Do you know much time I waste every day just scrolling through the suggestions channel ? I'm not even reading all of them

[crisp topaz]

Subjective.

[urban bear]

there's plenty of examples of games that have been heavily improved off player feedback

[vestal rune]

uh name one AAA company where you regularly get to talk directly to the devs

[vestal rune]

like... the isle?

[crisp topaz]

This. People.

[urban bear]

no rust or rainbow six siege for example

[vestal rune]

those are examples yes but so is the isle lmfao

game radically changed because of player feedback(as I said earlier)

[urban bear]

The Isle is far less of an example considering its still in EA while these games both made it big because they listened to their community

[crisp topaz]

Rust has 100+ team members available for communication as well as the resources to develop a huge game. The Isle does not. That's not even a valid conparison.

[heady warren]

AAA game studios communicate with the playerbase by sales and surveys. They also develop content and produce finished games not 7+ years of early access. we are not in a AAA game situation

[vestal rune]

but ofc that doesn't matter because that was a couple years ago and the devs have like completely changed personalities right?

[urban bear]

at the start when it was a little early access game it didn't

[vestal rune]

FINISHED GAMES LMAO

[cobalt ibex]

(also to this, the devs Super often talk to us here in the discord)

[crisp topaz]

When rust started early access it had 100 employees. It was not some indie studio and definitely wasn't their first game.

[urban bear]

Facepunch has 1 title you can go look on steam, its rust and they were a small indie team which is why the game was so ass when it came out

[heady warren]

👍

[vestal rune]

isn't garry's mod made by facepunch?

[urban bear]

they are credited on steam for doing G mod but later stopped working on it and have moved away to work on rust

[crisp topaz]

You don't know a thing about facepunch

[urban bear]

Facepunch was never a huge team until rust blew up lol

since rust they have taken a few detours to try some other small projects but thats about it

they made a sandbox for players to mod lol

[vestal rune]

btw is it common for indie games with 0 initial backup to hit playercounts of 11,000?

oh and more specifically, indie games in a niche genre

[crisp topaz]

But again, comparing rust and the isle is not valid because the isle never blew up and gained international recognition, thus enabling them to hire the people they needed to actually finish the game.

[vestal rune]

because the way I see it, the isle has blown up thanks to communbity feedback and it hasn't even left EA yet lmao

[urban bear]

and rust blew up through developing into something everyone wanted

The Isle blew up through content creation mainly

blowing up as in the videos that were published have lots of views

[vestal rune]

also a lot of buyers of the product lol

[urban flax]

That's literally what The Isle is doing rn
It's getting hundreds (even thousands) of new players with every update
And humans aren't even in yet

[heady warren]

This is how I found out about it for sure

[urban bear]

I'm not denying the fact the isle wont get big

[cyan flame]

I mean, the Isle let you play as a dino and run around in a world with other players that were also dinos. I think the concept inherently has a good deal of appeal :p

[crisp topaz]

Rust is still the same game it was when it first came out. The only difference is the content available that, yes, was heavily inspired by community feedback. But you can't take one look at the isles development and tell me they are not listening to their community to some degree.

[urban flax]

But it's very niche
I actually find it surprising that the community on this game is so big

[urban bear]

yes it does, and if it keeps going its gonna get big, its like every jurassic park fanboys wet dream

[heady warren]

unfortunately, that was never where it was supposed to end. it was always intended to be dinos v humans

[urban flax]

"unfortunately"

[cyan flame]

Maybe not as niche as we think honestly. Lots of people like dinos after all I think xD

[vestal rune]

well ye but animal survival is a niche genre

[cyan flame]

Makes sense, since Dondi is one of said fanboys

[vestal rune]

I mean once they add humans properly the appeal is probably gonna blow up

[heady warren]

its such a cool niche

[burnt bone]

Aye, Ty for the credit. I was honestly so excited to see that they are trying to make pachy more coastal, even though it is just a simple diet swap rn.

[urban flax]

Usually when I tell people I like dinos they cringe

[cyan flame]

Must be some very strange people you got there. Clearly there's something wrong with them ^^

[urban bear]

Rust was originally a zombie survival game but through feedback and the market for that type of game being saturated they moved to a game where you survive against just the environment and then rust, what im trying to say is I want to see more of that from the Isle, look at feedback and change something that has been heavily demanded

[heady warren]

its a stigma that dinos are for nerds or you know ... the old religious chestnut of dinos dont exist

[cyan flame]

True, but well, things changed as it were. For good or ill.

[obsidian jetty]

Ignore them...nobody needs that kind of negativity in their life! ^^

[zealous stone]

Tell them about how raptors would flap their feathered arms for stability as they hook onto you with their claws and eat you alive.

[vestal rune]

btw I think there's some people who have been in the game for a while, does anyone remember when survival replaced progression as the main game mode?

[urban flax]

Kids like my dino drawings at least

[heady warren]

its just slow development because of small, changing teams... its all coming, we'll just be much older when it does

[cobalt ibex]

It's not even that slow o: we'll get a lot of stuff soon with 6.0

[zealous stone]

I do feel like development is unreasonably slow. Sure it's a relatively small team, but you don't need that many people to role out some stat changes for a poorly balanced dino in response to criticism.

[heady warren]

dude, my kid was a toddler when this game launched, and now she is a kid who plays

[urban flax]

This reminds me I have to take the next opportunity I have to talk to a dev to ask them about that guy who's redoing The Isle on UE5. I'm not knowledgeable enough in programming to know if he's doing it right or not, and if he is, I hope it could give an incentive for the devs to switch over.

[crisp topaz]

So you want to see high ✅️ suggestions be implemented. We already discussed this man. It's their game they can do what they want regardless of their feedback. Sounds like facepunch didn't have a dream and a vision to create a specific game like these devs and that's the difference.

[urban flax]

UE5 seems like some crazy stuff tech-wise

[vestal rune]

ue5 would definitely improve performance

[obsidian jetty]

No, but you need time...and when something else takes priority, things gotta wait. You can't always drop everything and change some stats just cuz someone yells

[cobalt ibex]

He's not "redoing" the isle >.< I really dislike that person for misleading so many people.
He is using The Isle assets to play around in UE5 for self-learning and nothing more!

[urban flax]

If they can make it work right, that is
But from what I know of it, UE4 is pretty flawed and very limiting, and I think A LOT of the game's bugs and limitations come from it
It's an old and not very modular engine after all

[zealous stone]

I know, but when you have something the community complains about as much as say, Utah, it seems likely there's a problem.

[urban flax]

Yeah I know, but I think he's doing some programming with it ? That's why I'd really like to know the view of an actual programmer on it
I don't actually really know what he's doing
I hope devs will be fine with him using their models tho, I wouldn't want him to be shut down because I brought his work up

[obsidian jetty]

And that problem - if it actually turns out to be one - goes on a list with all the others and they get worked on one after another

[heady warren]

Is the dev team small and slow because the game isn't profitable enough?

[cobalt ibex]

I don't think he will get in trouble, he stated in (most >.<) of his videos that all assets and sounds are taking from the game and he's not taking credit for it.
so don't worry!

[urban flax]

Nah it's because they have trouble finding more devs
Probably because they have a sticking bad rep

[heady warren]

yea, the rep is not great for this game

[urban flax]

Good to know

[zealous stone]

I'm not a game developer, but I have modded a game before, and I'm pretty sure changing a stat is just going into the files and a replacing number. I could be wrong, but I don't see why it wouldn't be like that.

[crisp topaz]

The team is small because they struggle to find qualified programmers and it takes so long because they have so few people working on the game. It'd be different if they had 10 animators instead they've got like 1 or 2?

[vestal rune]

devs could easily change the stats, they're just not going to release a whole update just to do it when it doesn't really matter that much

[cobalt ibex]

Also just adding more programmers != faster progress.
It's the first thing you'll ever learn in a Software development course.
Just the time it takes to introduce new programmers to your code and everything can take ages

[burnt bone]

It’s also because they take what people say on release with a whole shaker of salt. Especially when many of the complaints are just “X DINO IS TOO STRONG!!!!! NERF NOW” plus, they need to see how people adapt to playing again that dino. Most people have no clue how to fight utah currently because they never worried about bleed or utah in the past. Now that they have to, it’s hard to adapt a whole new playstyle quickly.

[urban flax]

And programmers, from what I know, are the rarest guys on the videogame industry

[crisp topaz]

They are

[zealous stone]

Even if it doesn't have too much of an impact, it still shows the community your trying to fix a balancing issue, which is better than waiting 8 months for a major update.

[urban flax]

I'll tell my brother to apply for Afterthought
He's a good programmer
I think

[cobalt ibex]

That the last update took so long wasn't even their fault, it was a problem with Epic

[zealous stone]

I never said they should just react to every salty complaint in #balance-feedback without thought, that would be stupid.

[urban flax]

(and UE4)

[vestal rune]

eh I have more of a problem with them refraining bug fixes behind majour updates rather than balance changes, the balance isn't so bad it's game ruining

[zealous stone]

Fair enough

[crisp topaz]

They have to allow the update time. People have to adjust to changes and stats need to be tracked before they can just change something based on feedback. What we see and what they see are totally different.

[urban flax]

I think they said they ignore every balance post during the first week after an update, because they need players to need to adapt to the new balance changes before taking it into consideration

[zealous stone]

Yeah that's understandable

But I think you should have a solid picture within a month

[urban flax]

And I agree with that position because I'm guilty of overreacting to balance changes on several games right after an update and realizing they're not that bad after one or two weeks

[burnt bone]

I never meant to imply you said that, mainly just stating the fact that 90% of that channel is salt and bias. There are definitely some good suggestions out there (like my posts, this is totally unbiased), but they are far outnumbered by garbage.

[crisp topaz]

That likely has to do with the devs simply disagreeing with a certain feedback. As some would say "skill issue".

[cobalt ibex]

And some suggestions are awesome, but just not technically possible ):

[obsidian jetty]

Yes but we're talking "balancing" here which always and for every game requires a lot of back and forth and testing and re-evaluating. And many people seem to forget, that the current roster is far from the final one. All the "stego op" people for example seem to forget that that's only "op" because things like the Allo are not in the game yet.

[vestal rune]

honestly the thing just is that the devs aren't too occupied with balance rn because as soon as a new update hits that balance is probably going to be ruined anyway

[cobalt ibex]

Honestly, the balance isn't even that bad.
At least nothing much you can do with the current rooster

[crisp topaz]

Balance and optimization is probably at the very bottom of their list tbh.

[burnt bone]

That too, balance gets skewed after every patch and new dino

[heady warren]

90% is crazy as an estimate. I would definitely say more than half are salty and biased. but 90% is crazy. This server would implode with rage at 75%

[heady warren]

Agreed. The balance seems very tolerable

[crisp topaz]

My literal only issue with evrima is the roster

[zealous stone]

Its not too bad, though I've been hearing Utah's pounce is broken, though I have little experience with the new pounce.

[cobalt ibex]

We'll be getting 4 new dinos probably very soon.
Troo, Beipi, Cera and Galli are rather far in development

[heady warren]

very soon, meaning Christmas or later.

[cobalt ibex]

yeah!

not sure if that was sarcasm ? o: that actually is very soon

[heady warren]

Considering estimated the size of the team, thats pretty good.

[crisp topaz]

I would play an untextured dino at this point lol

[burnt bone]

Probably a bit of an exaggeration. But there are definitely a LOT that are just salt and many that are bias, and we can’t forget the “nerf x dino, don’t listen to the ❌ because they are just salty mains.”

[zealous stone]

Classic

[urban flax]

Also there's a lot of feedback that gets deleted by mods (or the bot) as soon as it's posted because it's nothing but babyraging after someone's dino died

[heady warren]

no no, I was being serious. i worked at a game studio in one of my earlier tech jobs and we had a lot of people, it was a 2 month development for new assets to be balanced and tested after they had animation and actions programmed... so.. I'm thinking 4 months would be good

[burnt bone]

That too, there’s probably quite a lot that gets insta flagged for swearing

[cobalt ibex]

okay, it's hard to tell sometimes xD

[heady warren]

welcome to the internet, right?

[cobalt ibex]

Poor Superlunary xD

[vestal rune]

ye game development is a pain in the ass

[burnt bone]

I’m just glad they kept going. They could have just left legacy and ditched the game. But instead they decided to remake the game, and give it to those who bought legacy for free.

[heady warren]

This and the speed of the team makes people rightfully worry about the direction things are going and the amount of feedback being taken... cause if they have to backtrack it would feel like forever

[cobalt ibex]

Yeah! And I love this game 😊

[heady warren]

also being fair, The devs dont want that either

[vestal rune]

well don't paint the "giving it to legacy for free" as like a favour, if they didn't do that it would be a scam

[heady warren]

I want to keep loving what this game is doing.

[vestal rune]

but I am very happy they decided to redo the game to make sure it makes their and our expectations

[urban flax]

Honestly many dev teams would have done that

[cobalt ibex]

Sadly a lot of games in this niche are like that ):

[burnt bone]

Overwatch 2

[zealous stone]

What games in this niche, name another Dinosaur Survival MMO that it that aims for a basic sense of realism.

[heady warren]

PoT

[zealous stone]

Thats literally an MMORPG

[vestal rune]

well overwatch was a complete game, I can't actually think of any examples of another studio doing somehting like making you pay for evrima

[heady warren]

only because they have quests now

[zealous stone]

Or at least borrows a lot from RPGs

[vestal rune]

I mean the PoT dev team stated they want it to be like an RPG

[cobalt ibex]

I counted dragon games like "Day of Dragons" and so on to this niche.
As Animal survival games that strive for the same

[heady warren]

because they realized you need a gameplay loop and thats the easiest way

People buy the skins... and theyre fleecing hard on that

[cobalt ibex]

for dino games you only really have BoB, PoT and TI

[zealous stone]

The RPG elements are what make me not really want to get POT

[heady warren]

I like to think The Isle has somewhere they want to go and theyre willing to work hard to get there

[cobalt ibex]

same, yeah ):

[heady warren]

but sometimes I worry, they dont quite know what a gameplay loop is

[cobalt ibex]

6.0 will add a lot of new stuff, alone the new diet system, gore and the Migration system should add a lot to it

[zealous stone]

Yeah its basically just eat, grow, die, repeat

[obsidian jetty]

Game...play...loop? In a simulation?

[vestal rune]

I mean perks and elders are meant to basically build the gameplay loop, still very confused why those 2 are coming so late

[vestal rune]

the isle isn't a sim

[heady warren]

I dont like predatory skin sales... but aslo... they have a lot of dinos

[obsidian jetty]

At least on steam it has a simulation tag ^^

[zealous stone]

How is the migration system going to work

[cobalt ibex]

Also Perks in 7 (7.5 maybe ?) might add to that

[heady warren]

yea, that shouldve been your first stop... "this is what you do in the game" and then they build around that

[vestal rune]

steam tags are unofficial

[vestal rune]

ye honestly it should have been like update 3 lol

[zealous stone]

If you want a simulation, play Saurian

Which also can't seem to get finished

[heady warren]

like steam knows what a sim is. I still get "adult" games just because I own a VR headset.

[vestal rune]

perks and elders are VERY important, I get the feeling a lot of people don't realise that lol

[vestal rune]

it's because steam tags are given by players not the devs

[heady warren]

Now THAT makes sense

[cobalt ibex]

We don't fully know yet (might be mentioned in the next Devlog soon ?)
But you'll basically have to migrate for your diet buffs (those will be completles changed). You can stay and eat to survive, but it won't be optimal.
Your diets might also change on migration cycles.

[obsidian jetty]

The thing I am trying to get to is...the isle kinda relies on the players making their own...loop. which is kinda what happens when you give people the freedom to do whatever they want. That freedom also means that you don't tell them what to do.

[burnt bone]

Because they are based on everything prior. You can’t get to elder without diet. You can’t pass on perks without nesting. Plus a majority of legacy players wanted nesting before they swapped over. Perks could also change diet or require certain diets. And carnivores need gore for diets.

[vestal rune]

oh ye diets should be before perks and elder sure, but I'd say even diets came too late lol

[zealous stone]

I actually suggested having diet plants only grow in certain "seasons" a couple days ago to encourage mass migration. Nice to see they had something similar planned.

[vestal rune]

like I love my ptera, but did we seriously need ptera and deino before diets, perks and elders?

also I don't think you need nesting for elders or perks, it can incorporate nicely yes but that incorportaion can be done later

[cobalt ibex]

To elders:
"After completing their reign, they depreciate. Embracing death willfully, leaves you with a bonus you can apply to a new life as that species."
We don't know what that 100% means though

[heady warren]

you already have to migrate for your diet, it would be nice if they gave you a gameplay reason to do it

[zealous stone]

I'd really like to see more emphasis on player cooperation, since it is an MMO. More herding and cooperative hunting would be nice.

[burnt bone]

Well update 2 was bleed and playables, update 3 gave some semi aquatics and fish

[vestal rune]

fairly sure that's referring to elder perks

[cobalt ibex]

hm, how do you mean ?
The reason is to get your diet buffs, which we don't know yet what they'll do in the new system

[vestal rune]

you're going to have to go to specific locations, still not sure about it

[cobalt ibex]

"The 3 diet buffs won´t exist anymore, you will be able to activate specific buffs by combining nutrients, so 2 carb slots and 1 lipid is a combination, 3 protein slots is another, and so on. The order of the combination may also affect it, this way you can "choose" what buff you want"

• Filipe

[obsidian jetty]

That's a player...decision...or do you want a "hunt a [...] with at least 4 people" quest? ^^

[burnt bone]

Also, they said there will be an indication to where you need to migrate to, or where your prey is migrating to

[cobalt ibex]

I can see the Migration system adding that

[zealous stone]

Okay look, sometimes you can't cooperate with other players because there's 50% chance they'll eat you instead

Cough Cough Deino

[obsidian jetty]

That too is a community issue not a game issue ^^ If you meet the "wrong" person they'll kill you. Like...uh...yeah...

The game lets you do it

[heady warren]

my kid and I talked about Migration and it immediate led into understanding mixpacking and some sort of faction/group system.

I mean, would you join a group of migrating herbies or could you only do it with your own kind?

[zealous stone]

Regardless, removes the possibility of cooperative hunting. Now if we knew a Teno herd was going to cross through somewhere, and that we could catch more food working together, then maybe it would viable enough.

[burnt bone]

They can just make the different species migrate to different areas

Like pachies have to move between the North and South coasts, and teno has to go between NW, Center, and SE

[heady warren]

in nature though, most migrations are usually a larger part of the habitat, involving multiple species... so why wouldnt Pachys and Stegos migrate together. maybe even Hypsies would get in on it

you could have a huge buffet of edible herbies, but also this would mean that meat eaters would need to cooperate or fight over the kills

[burnt bone]

Because they just make them eat different things. Since we don’t want them mixpacking and we can control the environment, we can make them migrate to different places, this they won’t go together

[cobalt ibex]

hm, Carnivores will at least have a icon that shows them their prey

[zealous stone]

Screw it, do something like the African Sardine Run, where all the herbivores on the server has to migrate together and the all the carnivores follow.

Imagine that

[heady warren]

right, thats what I think of when I think of a migration

[zealous stone]

"The Spiro Teno Run"

[obsidian jetty]

Find some people and do it. The game allows it ^^

[heady warren]

Considering I have to sift through a million melon patches to find pumpkins it seems like you would want to have migrations be a massive movement urging players to make themselves vulnerable

[zealous stone]

No it doesn't, because you have no way of predicting where Tenos will cross a river, if they'll even cross, or there is even a herd to begin with.

[vestal rune]

that's not really the idea

[icy lion]

I'm definitely looking forward to what migration could bring. Hopefully it means you'll only have to run loops around the map when it's active, instead of all the time like how diets are now for herbis.

[vestal rune]

hold on

[heady warren]

THIS ... so much

[obsidian jetty]

^ this

[heady warren]

I feel like as a herbi player, I make a lot of friends during self imposed migrations... seeking out food in certain areas we meet eachother and stick together until grown or dead

[zealous stone]

Yeah I honestly want to see an entire server worth herbivores getting jumped by an entire server worth of carnivores

[obsidian jetty]

Many community servers have done migration events for years tbh

[zealous stone]

Never heard of them

Might not have the time for once in a week player run migration events.

[heady warren]

so... just play on any weekend

[zealous stone]

I've never seen it happen before

[vestal rune]

"the migration system will do several checks to decide when that species is supposed to migrate and to where"

"the compass will have indication to where to go, an icon mostly like" "migrations won´t be active all the time, you have a "rest" time"

"carnis also get icon indicators in the compass to their prey locations, as a carni you decide to go or not, if you go it is more likely to find your prefered prey in those locations cuz they migrate"

[heady warren]

on NA5 I am the last surviving Pachy of a group of 7.... on NA 7 my kid and I are the last surviving stegos of a group of 6... sometimes you get swarmed... sometimes you lose a couple to deinos who arent even hungry

its a free-for-all every weekend... a slaughterhouse

[zealous stone]

Maybe its just because I play Deino on the outskirts of the map

[heady warren]

you grow them all week and they die off sat/sun night... I hope Migration brings more community fun

[zealous stone]

I have to be the lonliest Isle player that isn't an AFK growing stego

[vestal rune]

I think it's less meant to be serverwide migrations and more you will be more likely to find certain species in certain areas (sort of like an extension of the diet system)

[heady warren]

Do you guys have fun eating eachother all day? Deino players always seem so grumpy and untrusting.

[zealous stone]

I play on the outskirts of the map to avoid that

[obsidian jetty]

Deinos currently have the issue that they're the apex carnis rn and too many people play them just to be "the biggest thing out there" just like stegos...imho that's gonna get better

[zealous stone]

Yeah Deino needs competition

Something for it to fight other than itself

[icy lion]

I'd imagine it could be serverwide per species, ie. dryos and tenos may not migrate at the same time

[heady warren]

yea, that sounds more like it. I mean, migrations typically work as a general species movement at a certain time for a specific reason.

[zealous stone]

Would give me a reason to actually team up with other Deinos instead of spending all my time avoiding losing 5 hours of progress to a bunch of sweaty apex wankers who think they're so good because they can kill me with a 4 to 1 advantage.

[heady warren]

ah, the chad isle player. "My group of apex is bigger than yours."

Good to see some things never change

You know, I really liked playing Teno until my group of happy survivors was swarmed by a bunch of utahs and then ambushed by a carno while were fighting them off... is there a penalty for killing when you dont need more food? My kid thinks there is.

I told her its a free for all, no one cares

she also said you can report mix-packing. are those things moderated?

[icy lion]

Not on official servers, no

[heady warren]

Yea, I didnt think so.

[icy lion]

Officials have no rules for gameplay, but harassment/toxicity in chat and hacking can be reported

[heady warren]

so much for immersion 🤣

[zealous stone]

One the reasons I like Deino, it's one of the least reliant on other people. Sucks that it's better to avoid other people, but I feel like that's the only option.

[heady warren]

why make it an MMO if thats the case

[ashen wasp]

I mean, mix/megapacking are the age-old issues: how do you “fix” them mechanically in a way that isn’t obviously exploitable??

[obsidian jetty]

It's actually sad to hear that. I mean yeah, there are weird people around and it can be annoying to run into someone who just kills you unnecessarily, but I've had many positive as well as I have had negative encounters, so...mh...

[heady warren]

Make your dinos have a physical reaction to anyone they would instinctively know theyre on the menu of

Anxiety is a thing

[vestal rune]

BoB has that and it's easily exploitable

[zealous stone]

Considering it's an MMO, you could just design it with this kinda of stuff in mind. Look at the Sardine Run, where predators of all kinds hunt together. Everything from birds to whales.

[ashen wasp]

There’ll always be ways to exploit that— say, Anky gets anxiety debuffs against rex— Anky isn’t able to escape it, so rex could theoretically stress it out for as long as it feels like

[thorny crag]

I think there's no way around rules

Everything else is just deathmatch

[ashen wasp]

How do you quantify who’s on whose menu, too?? Interactions are heavily context-dependent

I struggle to think of a system that would cut out unwanted behavior like that entirely, outside of like. Constant moderation

[zealous stone]

Like it would be pretty awesome if a large Carno pack tried to corner a massive herd of Stegos and Teno's against Deino infested water. No one involved would forget it anytime soon.

[thorny crag]

I can only imagine that with less than 20 players on one server and lots of ai that's acting according to the species/behavior options etc. Idk how realistic that is

[heady warren]

look, its not our job to come up with a solution. We need to say, "We need a solution" and they can either develop it or live with the exploit. If there's an exploits for the fix then its punishable.

[thorny crag]

Just saying. Yea

[heady warren]

its wild how many people think, if they cant think of it, it cant be done. Mixpacking is a problem and it makes the game less fun for people following the rules and breaks immersion.

[obsidian jetty]

There are community (unofficial) servers for exactly that reason tho. Like...I like that the game allows you to play whichever way you want to. And people with similar ideas can get together and have a server with rules that allow them to play exactly that way. The game forcing you to play a certain way would take that option away from the people who enjoy it.

[zealous stone]

I have some tolerance for it. If it's a herd made up of different herbivore species, or carnivores of different species temporary teaming up for hunt, then I think it's fine. Stuff like that does happen and nature, and the variety of play styles can make the game more interesting. I draw the line at herbivore-carnivore mixpacking, because let's be real, name one real world instance of this.

[heady warren]

Agreed. If it doesnt break immersion, I dont mind.

[ashen wasp]

Yeah, idk about solutions either. I’m less worried about immersion and more worried about balancing, but yeah. Predators and scavengers cooperate across species plenty in nature but I’d like something in place to heavily limit that ingame to avoid, say, a death-clan of twenty different types of carnivores.

[thorny crag]

Not all rules break immersion, it feels like mostly ppl who don't bother reading them get annoyed easily

[heady warren]

Since I came back, Ive been chased into rivers by utahs who were herding deinos... doesnt bother me. But being scouted by a pachy who is leading carnos to pachys...

[thorny crag]

I'm more worried about performance tbh

[heady warren]

I hate the idea of that many carnivores as well lol, but it can and does happen in nature.

[thorny crag]

I honestly don't mind ppl doing what they do on no rule servers, that's the players choice. Rule servers exist so its not so bad imo. Just the thing ppl dream about, fighting massive groups.. I don't know if we get that without lag inside the current player count

[zealous stone]

tell that to the sardines

[heady warren]

🤣

[ashen wasp]

Well not death-clans, but yeah. Cooperation between badgers and coyotes, or groupers and morays.

I hold that in a different regard than something like a sardine run, because while caracaras and vultures will seek each other out and maintain social bonds in order to scavenge together, all the marine life in a sardine run is seeking to take advantage of chaos. They dogpile on a contested resource rather than collaborating, and the matchup between sardines and everything else is laughably one-sided which reflects what unwanted mixpacking is like ingame

[heady warren]

Yea, I dont want to be dogpiled, but I also dont mind getting killed by well-coordinated carnivores. getting killed by a skilled player is okay with me... getting killed by a bunch of apex chads dry-humping their way to victory is just agitating. 🙄

[zealous stone]

Yeah Sardine Run probably isn't the best model to follow

[ashen wasp]

I don’t mind sardine runs happening on occasion ingame, like Utahs herding prey to trap it next to the river and Deinos taking advantage of that, but they should be the exception and not the rule, pff

[heady warren]

yea

[zealous stone]

It would definitely be pretty frustrating to be caught on the wrong side of one regularly.

[heady warren]

it is irritating, if youve played for a long time to die to it... but if its done well, I dont hate it as much as getting tricked by a mixpacker.

[zealous stone]

I meant Sardine Run style hunts, not more moderate multispecies hunts.

Though honestly it would be cool to see an entire server worth of carnivores and herbivores clash if it could be done without game breaking lag.

[agile lark]

Yeah, this was me yesterday. Except with herbies. One attacked me so I 1v1'd, then once they were losing the rest jumped in when I had no stam. I mean, the sad part is - is that children and toxic adults also play this game, so they do not play it like a survival game - they simply grow dinos of all kinds to throw at people.

There are suggestions to join community servers with rules - but the problem is, is a lot of those servers are low pop because community servers dont like evrima for the most part. The NV is unbearable to a lot, and there is no global chat. I personally like no global chat, but it seems a lot of community players find it essential.

[zealous stone]

But if that was to happen, it should be a pretty rare event.

[heady warren]

totally! My kid got me to play again by dragging me into a low pop (non-official) server, and the people there were so nice. But playing with more people meant going official and it was a complete culture shock.

[thorny crag]

It's the wild west

[obsidian jetty]

That's kinda what I was talking about earlier. The game allows unofficial servers...and there is a rule-set out there for pretty much everyone. I kinda see the game itself, and thus the official servers, as a...foundation? They give us a framework we can do with whatever we want. That's why people are asking for server options for pack limits to be changed (or deactivated entirely) and such. The more restrictions you code into the game the less freedom for people to play the way they would like to. There just are so many people with so many different ideas of how this game should be, it's impossible to please everyone or even get them to agree on something most of the time. ^^

[zealous stone]

The problem is your trying to get people on the internet to behave like real animals. That isn't easy.

[heady warren]

The shocker to me is that my kid is stone-cold about it all. She is like... "We gotta kill that guy." and I'm like, "But we're all Tenos and we just added two more to the group." and shes like, "Theyre not like us." I... was... horrified...

more horrified that two carnos came to back up the guy we were trying to drive off... but she took it in stride like, "Oh, this again."

[thorny crag]

Oh man u make me laugh, the longer you play, the colder you'll get

[zealous stone]

The Isle is a game for psychopaths, and you won't convince me otherwise.

[thorny crag]

Your kid has probably seen all the horrid things that can happen like pack turning against you cause you're not in their discord vc etc

[vestal rune]

I mean it is meant to be a hardcore game

[heady warren]

But how do we get more people ... people looking for specific rule sets to know those exist and strengthen these small outlying groups into stronger PARTS of the community

[vestal rune]

OMG BASED KID

the isle taught them well

[thorny crag]

Ppl being friendly just to let you be eaten by their carnivore friends

[heady warren]

youre not even wrong

[vestal rune]

wait how old is your kid?

[thorny crag]

So many ways to snap at people, but there's also some friendly ppl

[heady warren]

Yea, this game turns her mean when she logs on. She is a sweet kid who has trouble understanding why people are jerks in real life... but on the Isle, she can smell blood.

[heady warren]

12

[vestal rune]

damn, are you still gonna let them play when gore is added?

[heady warren]

Shes the one who wants it.

[thorny crag]

It's honestly not a game for 12 year Olds tbh

Just my opinion

[vestal rune]

I mean fair enough I guess

[zealous stone]

But dinosaurs

[thorny crag]

Too many ways to harm

I get it don't worry, just my opinion

[heady warren]

I gave her a choice and EXPLAINED CAREFULLY what she was getting into. I even prohibited her from playing for a year after she started asking... she seems to know whats up more than I do

[thorny crag]

The dino models are amazing in this game

[obsidian jetty]

Uh...by telling people there's a "unofficial" option in the server list? Seriously tho, it just comes down to having the patience to find the right server for your playstyle. Your kid found them too ^^

[vestal rune]

all I can think about with your kid is her coming up to one of her friends that who's crying because they fell over, just staring in their eyes and going "skill issue" then walking off

[heady warren]

She is part of no communities btw... she is one of many people out there who is not in any discord or group. just playing (kids cant join discords or twitch or anything)

[thorny crag]

Really depends what you make with it, if you turn mean during the game then idk if it's a good influence. I have no kids tho so I have no say

[vestal rune]

eh I think video games making you violent is like an old meme that doesn't really hold much ground

[thorny crag]

Yea I just say what I feel hearing what he just said

Sure sounds like a cliché

[heady warren]

this is one of the things that convinced me she was okay on the isle. She loves people and animals and is sympathetic to those in need.

[zealous stone]

Yeah I'm pretty sure no studies have found video games to have significant impact on violent tendencies.

So Omniscion can rest comfortably knowing their kid won't start eating the other kids at school because they do that playing Carno in the Isle.

[heady warren]

if anything its a great outlet for bad energy as long as you metabolize it as such. some people dont have a grip on reality though

[thorny crag]

Careful with young children tho

[heady warren]

HAHA that was my first fear.

"Is she... going to eat that kid?"

[obsidian jetty]

There is an unofficial isle communities channel in this discord too tho, so people could know they exist even if they don't just hop on a random server and see how they like it there

[heady warren]

I would have to join and guide her through this for once. I seriously have been resistant to her being involved in any of this because of worries about violence and the nature of people... and ahem certain behavioral allegations of some staff in the past

it was a long, drawn-out, careful process... and I mean, I'm here. I was over her shoulder before...

[icy lion]

Discord ToS requires all users to be 13 or older

[heady warren]

like I said, it would be on me to join and guide. She cant even be on here.

[obsidian jetty]

Yeah in that case she'd need you to join and read the rules and such. Kinda feel bad for this unrelated discussion in here...glances at superlunary xD

So yeah to get back to where we started, I don't think there need to be too many mechanics that prevent mixpacking or force you to play the game a certain way because the community is so diverse with so many different ideas that it'd be hard to find something even a majority 100% likes.

[heady warren]

I cant imagine a lot of people like being conned by mixpacking. I think generally when you play a game you like to identify a threat and fight or run from it. I'm not saying RIGHT or WRONG... im just saying I cant even imagine its working as intended.

[obsidian jetty]

Well there is no right or wrong with things like that anyway. As it's personal opinions and thus subjective. But I tend to make things hard for myself by trying to consider other peoples' point of view. And if someone just wants to hang out and goof around with their...group of 10 friends...or just people in general and they end up picking different dinos...no global chat, maybe the pack limits and preventing mixpacking not being server settings would make that impossible...so I can kinda understand people frowning when they see that, even tho it doesn't really bother me personally that much. I mean, legacy has spoiled us in a way ^^

@analog gull why is that weird? Cats can catch birds mid-flight/taking off. The only weird thing maybe would be the ptera and utah not landing in the same spot or the distance? But I would kinda expect a ptera that collides mid-air with a pouncing utah to drop to the ground unless maybe the utah isn't heavy enough and thus gets carried around by the ptera? Flying mounts! o.o

[analog gull]

what i meant is

the utah did pounce towards the ptera

he pounced like you would pounce a baby stego in front of you

and then the ptera was going from getting pounced to jumping and back to getting pounced until it died

ill try to see if i can find the video

[obsidian jetty]

Ah...sounds like the "magnetic pounce"-issue with weird behaviour on the ptera's side afterwards then. Yeah that do be a little weird. XD

[analog gull]

When i saw it on the vid my brain died for a second

[obsidian jetty]

I bet. Now I kinda want to try it...anyway, that sounds like it'd need a bug report...probably is reported already.

[heady warren]

Why are there not any shooting stars utah pounce memes

[jade brook]

oh there were studies, but they weren't proper at all. Lot of biases and media sensationalism. With the arrival of Death Race in 1976 and the following Satanic Panic wave, studies where pushed to follow that narrative that violent games make kids violent. Parents in denial of their responsibility of their kids behavior. Could have been easy to infer that "violent" kids are attracted to violent video games instead.
Modern studies suggest instead that it is a way to safely let out aggression, for people of all ages. Though it is still debated how it affects kids development. For example, to which degree preventing the..."natural" violent interactions between kids could affect their understanding of it and how to deal with it.
Anyway, the consensus is no matter what a kid is allowed to do, it has to be in tandem with proper guidance, parental, educational, societal and such

[jagged sleet]

@oak radish You can, it's under 'Actions' rather than in the Gamepad settings. I mapped mine to Y on an Xbox controller.

[oak radish]

Ah so it's still possible even though it's not listed in the gamepad menu? Thanks, I'll definitely try to remember that next time I hop on

[jagged sleet]

Ya! Remember to look under Actions or even in the very general settings when you first hit controls, can't remember exactly.

[oak radish]

Nah I've definitely seen the mention in the keybindings menu, just didn't think I could map it to a controlelr button from there

[jagged sleet]

Ah yeah xD have you found a way to properly map the Alt attacks like the teno tail slam? I've been unable to

[oak radish]

That's a good idea for another suggestion, as I don't see anything in the action list that shows "Alt+lmb" as a command

[jagged sleet]

Yeah sadly there's no way to do (ex:) LB + A yet, it just instantly maps it to LB. Hopefully soon ^^

[thorny crag]

Apparently the great NV suggestion everyone is bumping is not possible, devs have reacted and said it's not going to happen

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/423939730544132096/1013885871063302234/unknown.png

[minor laurel]

I wish they could talk to me about this tech issues in DMs, so i can improve my future suggestions

[thorny crag]

You can DM punch tho, maybe you get some answers

[minor laurel]

Are we allowed to do it? :o

[thorny crag]

Yes only punch, no other dev

[minor laurel]

Alright ! I'll ask him, then, thank you !

[thorny crag]

Good luck!

[limber hull]

im not exactly sure what you expected though. The suggestion can be incredibly well thought out and the concepts can be very decently demonstrated, but when it comes down to practical implementation, it may not be possible. Upvoting it does not make it more technically possible. On top of that, they already have a system they like and will likely want to improve upon

[minor laurel]

We wanted an answer and we got one. I think that's what people were waiting about. Maybe they can take what they can from it. At least. I surely am sad about it but i understand that we cannot do anything more about it.
I'd add that after letting a few more chances to the current NV, it can be cool, i admit it. I don't know how to make it look better tho if i don't understand correctly how it runs and what are the technical issues of my suggestion that make it not work.

[dusk meteor]

It's sort of the magnetic pounce but not really. I've mentioned before I suggestions, but most attacks that don't look like it have a significant vertical hotbox. The pounce only need to scrape you to activate and with the vertical element, you can't really escape it. Utahs can't jump over other utahs without getting pounced lol

The pounce is not the only attack which has this.

[thorny crag]

Yea I didn't expect anything but it's still being brought up so I just tell ppl it's been looked at and it's not possible sadly

[lapis swallow]

@austere axle the devs are listening and they are working on nightvision. They even considered to add the 400+ upvotes suggestion, but engine restrictions made that impossible. They are working on a better version of NV. Its just gonna take some time

[gritty terrace]

where did they state that I missed it

[lapis swallow]

Filipe stated it

[gritty terrace]

last I heard he said there probably will be a hotfix but isn't sure cuz he is not involved with night vision

[lapis swallow]

The day before yesterday (why the honk does the english language have no word for that)

[gritty terrace]

fair

[lapis swallow]

Wrong channel

[gritty terrace]

this is feedback discussion pal

[untold kettle]

oh xd sorry

[lapis swallow]

@jagged jewel I see you have a based idea

[jagged jewel]

i dislike the idea of changing the concept of current NV, it just needs tweaks

(also i stole with idea from mr rex with permission)

[gritty terrace]

yeah what he said is exactly what I have stated before and want changed as a start

[jagged jewel]

i didnt know lmao

[limber hull]

you RAT

[gritty terrace]

on no I probably haven't publicly stated it you are fine

[lapis swallow]

The colour one?

[limber hull]

the THIEF strikes again smh smh

[lapis swallow]

Stole my idea too

[jagged jewel]

[gritty terrace]

I have said the color part but I don't know if I was the first to say that

[jagged jewel]

All of them lmao

[limber hull]

i would add something to your version tho

[gritty terrace]

and the motion blur/flickering is kinda a given that has to be fixed

[limber hull]

Fix the weird as hell interaction with anti-aliasing

[gritty terrace]

^

[limber hull]

idk what it is, but anti-aliasing messes with the system bigtime

[jagged jewel]

oh it's anti aliasing? can't that be changed manually

[lapis swallow]

It is PAIN in the eyes

[lapis swallow]

What is that?

[limber hull]

low-medium makes NV look AWFUL and high-cinematic makes NV flicker like a strobe light

[jagged jewel]

fixed

[lapis swallow]

Oh, that

[limber hull]

i did testing myself because I am a professional QA man

[gritty terrace]

oh I only have done epic so huh

[limber hull]

decrease it to low/medium

And look at grass

[gritty terrace]

yeah I will see what it looks like then

[lapis swallow]

We should ask them to make you QA

[limber hull]

Oh my god its so awful

[gritty terrace]

he already was

[lapis swallow]

Really?

[gritty terrace]

then was let go cuz stress testing go brr from what I heard

[limber hull]

yee, essentially

[lapis swallow]

Imma start bumping duders suggestion

[limber hull]

i was busy with uni and i got removed because i wasnt high enough output for their much smaller team, which was fair

[gritty terrace]

devs just trying to get a different formula going

[lapis swallow]

In a few days

[lapis swallow]

Did you finish uni

[limber hull]

i didnt have enough time to dedicate to QA

nah man, still in it lmao

[lapis swallow]

Ya having fun?

[limber hull]

ye

[gritty terrace]

I am not sure if I stated this before but the seeing patterns part I have thought about and I am pretty sure would help a LOT of situations,

1. it gives them more 3d form for depth perception so you know where tf they are at in 3d space
2. it will make it look a little more noisy so hiding will be slightly easier because people can just find you in bushes easier, while it is dark there are just bigass voids from the dinos hiding, the noise will make it seem more like foliage
3. it will actually factor in the horror aspect of the game because you will eventually learn that some patterns = death which I think that would be really fun

and I think it would make it easier to see smaller stuff and as a side note, birds see UV light and there is a possibility that dinosaurs may have this capability as well so their patterns would look different/ interact with the environment differently than how we see it, I have't looked too much into it but they could just use that as an excuse on why you can see the patterns at night and etc

thoughts?

[oak radish]

Hey I was looking at the actions and there's one called "Primary Attack 2" that's also mapped to lmb and off to the right are 4 boxes labeled for keys that need to be held alongside the keybind. I think you might be able to map the alt attacks to gamepad with that in mind

[limber hull]

@idle cradle thats all the more reason why bananas should be in The Isle

this is a human owned island

humans have clearly been interfering with nature in more ways than one

[oak radish]

@jagged sleet Can confirm it works. Mapped my deino's 360 bite to L3 and it worked

[limber hull]

with all the mutant dinosaurs running around, bananas really aren't that great a stretch

[idle cradle]

Yeah, but bananas aren't great at growing without humans to tend to them. And once they fruit, they don't fruit again...its weird.

But, like I said, there are plenty of other fruits that could do just fine in a jungle.

[faint folio]

I thought it was an abandoned or failed research/science project? Sure the humans may originally have planted banana, but once the plant dies it will not be replaceable because you have to propagate bananas (they are seedless so cloning/propagating is the only way to make new trees).

[limber hull]

i mean, cloning is the one thing this island does well

[faint folio]

Though maybe something like plantains would work? I believe they have seeds

[faint folio]

True lol. Fair point. Not sure that they'd bother to clone banana trees, but if they did it would explain the bananas

[jovial otter]

I grow bananas. They naturally clone themselves at the end of their cycle

So they could keep growing endlessly if the humidity and temp and sun is enough. They prefer understory sunlight, take 18 months to fruit, and then die off while their clones sprout from their roots

[thorny crag]

Abandoned banana farm would be fun but not really necessary idk what devs have planned tho

[jagged sleet]

Ooo I'll look into it. Thanks!!

[uneven mist]

@steep iron about that NV

[inland torrent]

i thank you for posting this

[uneven mist]

Yeah was lurking in discussion lol

[inland torrent]

still thanks

[robust anchor]

Don’t take my vr post seriously guys I just think the idea of an open world dino game would be amazing and the isle would be phenomenal with vr support. Not completely vr just vr support but I don’t expect it to ever happen. Just a fun little idea I was thinking about. I’m not concerned about it

[orchid moon]

isle

[barren zephyr]

Literally was talking about that in a group vc and how it would actually be a "survival horror" game. Just imagine hearing footsteps and you look behind you and see a carno emerge from the darkness. Would give it kind of a phasmaphobia feel tbh.

[limber hull]

VR would be hilarious lmao, I'm all for it

[bleak atlas]

Noooooooooooo

[minor elk]

is it me or does dryo nutrients drain realllly fast

compared to food drain

[cyan flame]

@primal tinsel Changing the pounce like that has nothing to do with using terrain, and wouldn't change any of those strategies. All it would do is make it take some form of tactic and strategy to actually land the pounce. The easiest thing to do is to just not let pounce work unless it's aimed on the slots. Pouncing from front or rear (hitting head or tail) should just result in a stun like when you miss entirely. Can even keep the current extremely short stun most likely since standing right in front of behind a target adds some danger, unlike just missing the pounce in general.

And since you commented in balance feedback as well about just standing still and turning, all you need is two or more utahs and the target can't cover itself, unless also using terrain (which is kind of what terrain should be for, rather than the counter to pounce itself). But if you have two or three utahs, a standing carno or teno that tries to "spin" is going to leave itself open from one side or more, clear to pounce for whoever is in that position.

[rare fractal]

It’s almost as if Utah is a pack hunter, and should be disadvantaged without additional distractions…..

[proven river]

[primal tinsel]

@cyan flame good point, though I strongly believe that the pounce will once again get a nerf, so far, a Utah is easily manageable with trees, rocks, water, mud pools to get them off. Consider any creature close to a water source - you can’t pounce and biting is also not an option, right now for most part - the pounce is Utah’s primary damage dealer and for what we know, Utah’s health pool is low - mix this with pounce recovery timer being increased, terrain, buck ability, carno mega-packs (if hunger drain is decreased) Utah may once again become just another food buffet. Worrying…

[rare fractal]

Bite is absolutely a viable option, it does more damage than a Pachy alt and does considerable bleed.
The solution to all of these problems is to pick targets away from obstacles or water, or just kite them into places that favor pounce, or only pounce for short periods of time so that they don’t even have time to properly counter you before you’ve jumped off….
Many options exist for you as a Utah, especially considering your high stam and incredibly high stam regen rate.
Like I’m serious when I say that pounce is the easiest most conditionless ability of all the abilities in the game to land.
It lacks a windup
It functions to equal effect regardless of the location pounced.
Does not hinder mobility
Can be used on a target pursuing you via flank teleportation
And it can be quickly used and offers an escape option built into the maneuver, the only thing you need them is timing.

Every other ability is either completely negated by obstacles (save for stego swing because hitboxes are dumb), the lower speed of the animal (the only animal that can use their ability on a Utah that isn’t placing themselves in danger is Carno), the more conditions required to use it effectively (Carno charge requires a full sprint with no obstacles in the way, pachies ram requires a windup that needs to be canceled out before any other actions can be taken. Teno slam, kick, and stegos swing are all location locked to their rear or sides of the animal and halt mobility in the case of both tail attacks, etc.)

I seriously don’t think making Utahs pounce more conditional or difficult to execute is at all unwarranted or unfair, especially since it’s attached to one of the most versatile critters that will ever be in the game.

Also mud pools make pouncing easier, the target has reduced mobility and no immediate objects to use as a shield or dismounter, the only mud pool that really breaks this rule is “oasis” and that’s only because it’s titanic.

@primal tinsel

And on the note of head pouncing causing blindness….

That would not be a nerf, that’s just pounce but WAY better, not only can you survive the pounce but you take away the targets sight, what are they even supposed to do for the rest of the fight aside from randomly biting or swinging around hoping something works

[jade brook]

maybe not pounce exclusively...but i'm not -completely- against the idea of eye injuries from any dinos to affect vision partially. Like degrees of blur or bloody screen idk

[rare fractal]

Kinda trivializes head fractures a bit, there would need to be more ways an animal can protect their head because headshots aren’t exactly difficult to land for quite a few critters

Not necessarily against it, but it’s a very slippery slope

If it’s VERY partial that’s more justifiable, head fracture tier near blindness is just too strong tho

[cyan flame]

I'm hoping for a adjustment to the mechanic rather than just a nerf as it were. As for changes, I did mention that pounce recovery could be kept as short as it is right now (barely existent) if the added difficulty in landing it was a thing. Since then there'd be more proper risk anyway. For the terrain, that's why you choose when and where to hunt. Thats important, and utahs can ambush and be sneaky, you can hide quite well in those big bushes on the plains I think. (also you should have to run at a rock or tree to knock a utah off, not just turn into it, that'd help with that). Water, you can pounce near and actually utilize yourself as an escape, at the risk of deinos of course (but that goes for the target as well, even a stego standing next to water is taking a risk at that point, not to mention what a carno or teno is risking). Megapacks is well, not really a relevant argument here I'd say, they are an issue for everyone, no matter what the megapack consists of or what it targets (utah megapacks are a thing too, to be fair, and not much more fun than carnos or anything else). I do have to wonder when mudpools would ever come into account though, considering how rare they are, and that in most cases, they're not exactly in a common or useful place.

I do not think bucking is a counter to pounce due to it not being very effective, and in most cases just delaying your death. And in a few cases, even outright being harmful to your survival. But even if bucking was made a proper counter (so you'd not have to just hug a tree or rock as a pounce counter), it'd not turn utah into a weak animal now that pounce works reliably, has it's impact pounce, and so on. The main issue as to why utahs were so "weak" before, wasn't due to low bleed or the stun on miss being longer, it was pretty much entirely down to the mechanic itself being unreliable and killing the utah more often than not just by going "nah, I don't want to work properly this time" and doing something weird.

[rare fractal]

Bucking is certainly a bizarre mechanic for what it’s attempting to be

[jade brook]

i still disagree with the old stun on miss not being an issue. It's not because people were MORE annoyed at the bugs that it wasn't a problem.
You want punishment for missed pounce? Raise initial stamina cost of the pounce jump. It's way more realistic, prevents them to from spamming it, and encourages them to hunt in packs

[cyan flame]

Fair, I personally never felt it was this whole "If I miss, I'm guaranteed to die" but maybe I just "misaimed" my pounces better. But I can grant that maybe it was a touch too long, though I defenitely think it's too short right now to say the least (though I'd rather work on pounce as a mechanic as written above). And I've suggested something similar myself, remove the stun, and just make it cost a bunch of stamina if you miss instead. So you can't just spam it, but your punishment is being "okay, so you aim like crap, go sit in a corner for the next minute or so and think about your errors while you regain all that lost stamina" instead. I'd probably do that rather than just raise the initial stam, since that kind of change might require another change to bucking or the normal drain while pouncing.

[jade brook]

Alright, but how would it make more sense that pouncing at the ground is more exhaustive than on a living, bucking being?

I dont see how raising initial cost would affect the bucking or normal drain

[cyan flame]

Maybe it wouldn't make much sense, but you could possibly argue that you've thrown yourself with full force at x point, you missed and are as such landing rather heavily on the ground with all that force, but not in a position you were braced for. But in the end, I'd say game and balance over realism there.

[rare fractal]

Moreso that it effects how much stam you have going into the pounce, so if you wanted to maintain the current pounce uptime whilst increasing the cost of pounce rebalancing for the stam lost would need to be done….tho I’m not really in support or against either position

[rare fractal]

Considering this ability is already physiologically impossible I’d say that’s a good rule

[cyan flame]

Well, if you want the utah to be able to stay on as long, you'd have to lower the bucking and normal drain, since the utah by raising the initial cost now have less to use during the pounce.

[cyan flame]

Im not sure which one of us said that in the least complicated way xD

[rare fractal]

Probably you by virtue of the lower word count….but honestly I have no idea XD

[jade brook]

i thought it was infered that it would be part of the overall nerf. It all depends on how much the cost is raised too. But the penalty on miss wouldn't prevent spam, it just punishes miss more than it is already.

[cyan flame]

Well, at least it's clarified now. And why wouldn't either increased cost of pounce or drain on stam both prevent spam? If you lost, let's say 30% stam on a miss, you're not going to spam the pounce very much, now are you? :p

[jade brook]

because if you are accurate you can spam again and again still

[cyan flame]

The point of the stam drain on miss is to make it a "you messed up, go away and practice and try again later", kind of like how if a deino misses the lunge, it's probably not getting that meal, unless the target is afk or something, since well, if you miss, whatever you lunged, is now thoroughly aware of your presence.

[cyan flame]

Yes, but A, you'll have much less stam to use for the pounce even if you do land it, since you're missing a good third if your stam + the cost of using the pounce which would still be there. And sure, you can spam it twice more if you really wanted, and then you're entirely out of stam and everything can just run you down and kill you, and if you tried to pounce with the last stam, you'd just fall off when the target bucks and then you will most likely die due to full knockdown.

I wouldn't consider being able to use the pounce maybe twice in a row before you're out of any reasonable effectiveness to be spam honestly.

[jade brook]

Sorry, I have trouble understanding the phrasing of what you just said

(it might be my english)

[cyan flame]

Well, you're saying that even with a stamina drain on miss, it wouldn't prevent spam? But, if the pounce requires stam to use, both to initiate and to well, remain on a target, and you lose a lot of stam if you miss your pounce, you would be unable to keep pouncing. Same way you can't pounce, get bucked off, and then immediately pounce again (well, you can, but then you'd just run out of stam entirely).

[cyan flame]

No worries, I'll try and phrase myself better. Maybe we're just talking past each other when it comes to what we mean with spamming pounce.

[rare fractal]

Lemme see if I can help.

What Erik is saying is that a higher stam cost for pounce would leave the Utah with less stamina to maintain the pounce if it lands it than it does currently. If you want to maintain the current duration a Utah can pounce a target then it’s stamina degeneration rate when bucked or otherwise would need to be adjusted because attempting to pounce consumes a greater chunk of stam than it did before.

So when it comes to the prevention of spam, a higher cost for attempting a pounce would leave the Utah with less stamina to work with, thus leaving it with less attempts at pouncing before it needs to disengage, which is honestly something that appeals to me.

This would similarly apply to a greater cost for missing a pounce instead of attempting one, just with an different action causing that stam drain

[inland torrent]

just wanted to post this because of the many bumps its still getting (dont get me wrong its a great suggestion)

[jade brook]

Well yes, like i said, it would reduce the overall raking time without adjustment, that was what i meant was inferred.

Honestly I'm pretty ambivalent toward the asks for bleed nerf, but i thought it was somewhat of a logic middle ground that would satisfy most.

greater initial cost would make being accurate more ...hm what is the word...?

"worth" more?

since it would still punish miss pounce too

but punishing missed pounce alone or even more in term of fluidity or exhaustion is a bit bizarre to me

[rare fractal]

Do you mean:
Reduce the baseline effectiveness of pounce, but also creating a greater relative reward for success because of the higher resource commitment? Because I’d be down for that especially if pounce was made more difficulty to land in the first place

[jade brook]

yes, though to which degree i have no idea

[rare fractal]

It’d need to go through quite a bit of testing, off the top of my head I’m not sure

Pragmatic application is a must here

[jagged jewel]

@proven river

[proven river]

ye ik (╥_╥)

but my will to bump that one specific suggestion will never die!

[uneven mist]

@wheat hemlock visual bug

[jagged jewel]

@wheat hemlock that's just a visual bug

the server is actually 100/100, it just shows the other numbers

[lapis swallow]

The mod who deleted the feedback. Good comedy there

[limber hull]

lmao

the hell does he mean by "useless swimming rats" anyways? Does he mean beipi?

[lapis swallow]

Why is your name mr. Dilo now?

[severe idol]

@frozen agate
This is not very effective or useful feedback. As a general rule, try to add actual details to your messages to hopefully actually get the point across in a way that doesn't come off as an old man yelling random words in a park.

I've read your other posts, you're better than this.

[limber hull]

because i wanted it to be

no rhyme nor reason

[lapis swallow]

Dilo kinda weird

[severe idol]

"lol fix it" is not feedback.

[limber hull]

my god he is obsessed with useless swimming rats

[lapis swallow]

mr. beipi (useless rat niche) would be better

[frozen agate]

there shouldnt be new addition when the game runs so bad, everytime i want to fight with other dinos i get fps 5-10 from stable 50-60 so it would be smart if optimization and making the game playable stood on first plan above adding new content. I could understand it if the game was dying and u wanted more players by adding trex or other apexs not small swimming creatures that no one will play, but as far as i know the game is making good money and this is not the case here.

[severe idol]

See. That's actual feedback.

[frozen agate]

sorry just mad that its not being fixed for so long and it seems for me that is such a primary thing to do

and i see new stuff added such as those swimming idk what it is that probably no one will play

[lapis swallow]

I am interested in playing it

[cedar geyser]

@barren zephyr can you DM me the new rex roar?

[frozen agate]

would like to see a strawpoll who is more interested in optimizing the game making is run smooth without fps drops of80-90% than the addition of beipiaosaurus

[lapis swallow]

I am more interested in stable frames tbh, but beipi seems like a cool addition

[frozen agate]

see, i m not saying its a bad addition but there are more important things to do atm things that shouldnt be left like that for months

[gritty terrace]

I do think the optimization would be more worthwhile when they get unreal engine 5 going because nanite may fix quite a bit

But the issue is we do not know what update they are going to unreal engine 5 and even tho they say so it is NOT seemless, plenty of games went from unreal engine 4 to 5 and it took several months just to fix it up

[frozen agate]

everything is going slow enough that i wouldn't expect it even next year or two, so for that long of a time would be nice to play this game with good perfomance

[gritty terrace]

Yeah-

I was just saying it would be nice if they waited till either after the gore/night terrors update to do it or the elder system because at that point all the major mechanics will be in and there will be a bit of a gameplay loop

[amber vigil]

@lapis swallow why put a ❌ to my suggestion? Just explain ur opinion bc i dont understand, hiding in a dead body as a baby is cool and realistic?

[gritty terrace]

Cuz I remember a while ago hypno or one of the devs I forgot, was running nanite tests (which was a long time ago and was the first sneak peak of the new map but no one really bat an eye) so the instant they get unreal 5 going, I bet that will be the optimization update where they go balls to the wall with nanite and optimize the game a ton

[lapis swallow]

Because I dont think hiding in a body as a baby is cringe

[amber vigil]

but in trailers we saw compys eating on dead body, not in

:( and i would see that

[gritty terrace]

Idk man going full Luke Skywalker with a baby is pretty fun

And with how gore is looking it will probably be fixed anyways

[amber vigil]

then just put that ⏲️

[gritty terrace]

Well no cuz if it doesn't get solved eventually I want it to be in the game either way

[amber vigil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef-rjHbpANM

are compys and bird eating in the stego? NO

They are eating ON

[gritty terrace]

?

[amber vigil]

and the ^ptera too

[gritty terrace]

What does that have to do with people hiding in bodies

[amber vigil]

bc in this trailer, bodies have hitboxes

and it looks cool

just look the dino eating

[gritty terrace]

I also just do not think giving it a walking hit box is a bad idea is because the hit box to eat it is already a mess and might make it way harder to find the hitbox if it was in the hitbix in a weird way

[amber vigil]

eating hit box, and walking hitbox arent the same thing

[gritty terrace]

And once again, gore is getting completely revamped so who knows it it ends up getting to be worse of an issue

[gritty terrace]

Yes ik

The eating hitbox can get really funky and the walking hitbox may get in the wat to make it harder to find

Plus I would imagine that can be finicky for dinos that can't jump

Having a carno running away then clip on a dryo or teno corpse would be infuriating

[amber vigil]

can do as the swamp wall for carnos

[gritty terrace]

What you mean by that

[amber vigil]

when did u start to playu the isle evrima?

[gritty terrace]

When it first came out

[amber vigil]

because before, carno werent able to walk on the swamp wall

[gritty terrace]

Ok what does that have to do with anything

I just don't want my dinos to trip on corpses

[amber vigil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcVQzgk_6nY&t=15s

look

they did that for the wall, they can do that for hitboxes

[barren zephyr]

It’s not a new Rex roar, the roar we heard in Filippe’s stream a few days ago sounded exactly the same as the one back in Legacy

Which doesn’t feel appealing at all

I prefer this a 100,000 times more than the one we have now

[gritty terrace]

^

[limber hull]

pretty sure that rex also had the same model as legacy, so i dont think its the new rex at all

[limber hull]

also that suggestion to remove night vision and add more damage to nocturnal species at night???

[proven river]

💀

[limber hull]

at what point does the damage run out

4am? 5am? 6am?

when is it considered "day" or "night" and your damage stops working

[cedar geyser]

never

I think nightvision should "outline" dinos only for nocturnal species

others would have just a smudge and wouldnt be able to recognise the species from far away

[barren zephyr]

Yeah it’s still that legacy Rex

Just praying that they actually change its model

I mean everyone in the roster got a model overhaul

[idle cradle]

I miss that roar.
The "new" one is from one of the strains. It does have that nice long distance tone, but it sounds more like a train horn than a large predator announcing its presence.

[obsidian jetty]

Probably unpopular opinion, but I don't really care too much about the roar...as for me the scary thing about the Rex wasn't, and doesn't need to be, the roar but the fact that it is a Rex and you immediately knew that. As long as it's recognisable and sounds like a big thing with huge teeth I'll be ok with it. (And the number one "train horn" was the Acro ^^)

[cedar geyser]

can somebody link me clip of the roar from the stream

[jagged jewel]

@dusk meteor what's the issue with my NV suggestion?

[dusk meteor]

Summing it up as the only changes is not appropriate. There's lots of changes that could improve it beyond that, but I don't really agree with adding more lines to the clutter either (I. E. outlining pattern as per Mr. Cerato's suggestion)

And frankly I can see water and rocks really well so I don't understand the issue there at all.

And the fixes are just plain necessary but you're not the only only to voice them so considering the bits I don't agree with are lumped in, I'm more accurately representing my view by saying no to yours and yes to people who are literally just talking about the fixes.

[jagged jewel]

i literally copied mr cerato's suggestion

he let me do it

i even used the outline pattern

I also meant only changes as in, only changes for it to not cause health issues

also i'm talking about the fixes too lol

[fathom tulip]

@proven river They already said they arent doing that one...

Apparently it can't work properly for some reason

[barren zephyr]

Hmmm yeah now that I think of I I guess you’re right, but still it’s way better than the Jurassic Park-esk roar we got from legacy. The legacy one is just not menacing at all

[barren zephyr]

I agree yeah, but sometimes the roar element boosts the fear factor a bit which is what I loved about the video that I sent

[barren zephyr]

This video

No offense to the Rex

But the Evrima Carno 1 call is more intimidating than the current 1 call Rex we have right now

I mean from a distance and at night, everything

[fathom tulip]

The scariest Rex sound JP was the low deep growling and snarling anyways, the roar sounds cool but its not as intimidating

Imaging that kind of low growling chasing you in the isle is actually pretty scary

[barren zephyr]

I just hope they can bring back this one, it was super unique and something that does not remind of the Jurassic Park Rex which is to be honest getting super old to listen to

[barren zephyr]

True!

[fathom tulip]

Just that heavy breathing and snarling is enough to be terrifying

Informs you that the animal is very large, and is very dangerous

[barren zephyr]

That would be awesome for example if it was during sniffing as well

[dire ridge]

@graceful wraith deino's cannibalism is intended BUT i agree its not fun BECAUSE the river system doesn't suit the playable. The river are to bland andtoo small. This is the real problem here

[idle cradle]

Number one train horn was hypo rex. Literal freight train with teeth

[faint folio]

@graceful wraith I think deino will be less inclined to cannibalism as more things are added to the game (aquatics like beipi, spino and terrestrials like cerato, troodon, galli), if server pops are increased (100 is a bit low for all the dinos they intend to add), and if the new many has rivers that are overall deeper, wider, and more suited to true aquatic lifestyles (with fewer shallow areas, forcing terrestrials to detour long distances for a safer spot to drink (but hotspots attract Crocs) or swim a wide, deep river that gives Crocs more time to ambush

[steep iron]

@upper folio If the dinos would have linear growth, meaning not going from 200kg to 450kg in the last 10% like literally utahraptor does, afking wouldn't be necessary - therefore no agree

[graceful wraith]

5 hours wasted trying to grow a Deinos for another hungry player to kill you in a second just because they didn't get food from the rivers. They should increase the appearance of fish or put more food options

[tardy talon]

@upper folio the problem with that idea is you haven’t really fixed the original problem. People will still afk, they’ll just come back every 5 minutes to move around. The fundamental issue is that growing is just not fun.

[tardy talon]

Sorry bro, but deino is a cannibal. If you don’t want to take the risk of being cannibalized, don’t play deino.

[graceful wraith]

nuuub

[tardy talon]

Ok bro

[crystal trail]

@snow meadow That post-death stat screen idea of yours is an interesting idea, thanks for the suggestion.

[proud coral]

[robust anchor]

anyone aware if the isle supports 21:9 (ultrawide)

aka 3440x1440 res

[tired flame]

devs never come in here... smh

[limber hull]

i wish devs read feedback :(

[proud coral]

[robust anchor]

damn nobody answered my question hahaha

i think this game would look absolutely beautiful and stunning on a UW monitor. if it doesnt already have support you guys should add it

[urban flax]

You know full well they don't care about us or our feedback

Wait dilo goat artillery niche now ? What happened ?

[limber hull]

is this like genuine or a bit

[limber hull]

felt like it

[urban flax]

I thought you knew me well enough to know if it's sarcasm or not

[limber hull]

This is clearly not the case

[urban flax]

You disappoint me
I thought there was something between us
But I'm nothing but a whitename to you
And I'm getting off-topic

[limber hull]

my memory is 2 seconds

[urban flax]

Well I was being sarcastic

[limber hull]

thank you

that is very helpful

[gritty terrace]

@barren zephyr I've talked about this before and the devs said optimization would need all the devs required to work on I so I am guessing there will be an update that will take a long time but will probably fix the optimization

[maiden anvil]

People doesn’t seem to be interested in reading my idea. Any reason for that?

[urban flax]

It's very similar that what's been suggested a lot of times

And similar to what devs have already tried to do without success

[weak bone]

I did. But I disagree.

[lapis swallow]

@fluid lake the suggestion is not possible to be made cause engine restrictions

[fluid lake]

Ok

[maiden anvil]

Too bad it only sounds good on paper but not irl

[hollow vault]

Any thoughts on my new idea?

[jagged jewel]

is your name a dino d day reference?

[limber hull]

yes

[jagged jewel]

knew it

based game tbh

[austere axle]

guys, does anyone knows the reason for performance issues? No bAd DeVeLoPmEnT answers plz

[icy lion]

Evrima is a brand new game that is still being developed at the foundational level. Optimizing assets and making things run more smoothly is an ongoing process, but special attention can't be given to it until the game is further fleshed out. Otherwise, you run the risk of spending tons of time working on performance, and having the next major addition set it back again

[wet cedar]

I recently played the night vision update and for some reason the graphics for the game now looks awful, this this a bug or is it a problem with my pc, for example a lot of stuff isn't rendering until I get very close to it which never used to happen and some trees/bushes I can see from miles away because they are super shiny.

[austere axle]

that means performance complaints are pointless right now?

[icy lion]

Not pointless, but it's important to know that the team always attempts to make the game more performant

However, I will say that saying you have bad performance and refusing to share your settings or PC specs doesn't exactly help

Or, at the very least, sharing what situations/places/things degrade your performance

[austere axle]

Got it.. Actually, I'm more concerned about the future... because we only have 100 players per sv and it'd be great to expand this limit, but it doesn't "feel" quite possible at the moment. Just want to understand if those issues are solvable or not, because I really hope to see more than 100 dinos playing together 😦 Imagine a massive herd migrating _

[spring holly]

I can back this easy. I also work in that industry and it's just better to optimize after everything is finalized. Too many changes can occur in the heart of development and it can result it a lot of lost time. Players will just have to play the game as it is in the meantime. I'm sure it will run much smoother when it's out of early access.

[spring holly]

I feel like it may be possible after Early Access, but it's hard to say. It depends how hard on the bandwidth running a single creature is and the world. The more complex, the more it takes. That's why MMORPGs are pretty simple in general. The world isn't very interactable and the players/creatures are mostly just numbers that are calculated with an animation, no real physics (or at least very basic). The Isle is clearly aiming for much more than that. Just the Utah's pounce is something I can't see ever happening in an MMORPG because of the latching on another player.

There is a lot more physics in Rumbleverse for example and the matches are usually 40 players.

[dreamy wharf]

QUETZALCOATLUS:

Devblog #28 is out and we've finally gotten to see Quetz's dossier. While concept art isn't indicative of the final product it formulates ideas into something tangible that could be represented in gameplay. In the devblog, Tapwing describes Quetz as a meat eating, spear-faced, giraffe that while not able to contend with the likes of the big three, is still an apex capable of stab 'n runs, using it's long neck to it's advantage, and displaying aerial dexterity against the myriad of smaller animals on the island. That being said I strongly feel like there are some things that should both be expanded upon, adjusted, or steered away from.

The General Idea:
The idea we're playing around with here is that Quetz is an apex tier animal with a growth cycle to match. We're straying away from a pure scavenger archetype like Ptera and giving Quetz it's own identity as a monstrous flying animal that is both fun to play as and against. The idea is to utilize maneuvering between land to air during combat, use it's superior range in combat/predation, and introduce a movement shift dynamic between both air and land. All to cement a gameplay style that the dossier already hints towards.

This is written with the balance in mind that while Quetz is a glass cannon it isn't an animal that's a "oneshot or be oneshotted" ideology given wings. Nobody wants to instantaneously lose all of their progress in similar power-level combat situations, especially in a survival game. This is also written without covering it's lifecycle or ecology, I reiterate that this is feedback based on the conceptual baseline the dossier provides.

Movement:
Quetzalcoatlus should have a movement dynamic of opposites where it can traverse easily between land or air but be master of neither. This allows for more breathing room not only for other playables but allow flight to be apart of combat/ecology in a meaningful way. This route of movement is incredibly simple but synergizes well with it's kit while also providing obvious negatives Quetzal players will need to gain the skill to go around and even use.
- Terrestrial: A Quetzal on the ground isn't helpless by any means, featuring exceptional speed and agility for it's size at the expense of a poor stamina economy. Encouraging brief chases and staying in it's lane.
- Aerial: In the air, a Quetzal uses it's exceptional stamina economy to traverse vast distances at the cost of speed and maneuverability. Simple. Different. Synergetic.

Combat and interaction tools:
Spear Gimmick: Quetzal's spear gimmick is fairly simple. It's a right click windup that you can aim similar to Hypsi's spit to sling towards and skewer targets with. This is significantly stronger than your regular peck and can be used to contend or defend against Carno sized animals, dealing very heavy damage. This is so it can truly personify itself as a monstrous flying apex predator of the skies while offering a higher skill requirement than a typical lunge.
Carrying/Aerial tackle: One thing in the concept art dossier was that Quetzal was shown to be able to carry potentially live animals. We're steering far away from this and turning it into a passive ability. Simply put, Quetzal would both be able to carry particularly large carcasses for it's size and tackle things from the air if they're small enough. Keeping in theme in making it fun to play as and against Quetzal, Deino's problem of players feeling completely helpless and frustrated at losing all of their progress because they were grabbed out of nowhere.
Aerial Bite: Another thing shown in it's dossier is an aerial bite, I'd remove this as you'd otherwise fall into the problem of trying to balance Quetz around a air bite due to how busted it would be. A weak air peck to deal with other fliers is fine.

Disclaimer:
This is just a small feedback post about it's dossier and potential gameplay.

@queen mortar
@random knoll

I'd like to get your guys' opinion on this, or really, anyone's.

[queen mortar]

alrighty

before i read, i think a cool think for quetz' takeoff could be that its angle of ascent when leaping is shallower, meaning that if you don't have more open space you're gonna hit whatever is in front of you

@dreamy wharf

[dreamy wharf]

The idea is that it can go between land to aerial states really "quickly", even during combat if it doesn't get killed during the telegraphed pole vault.

But a forward lunge for a takeoff is a good idea too.

This is just to sortof provide feedback on what the dossier shows.

[random knoll]

gotta agree with Aerial bite because we all know people would just fly low and nip peoples heads while they cant hit em

[dreamy wharf]

Not necessarily to be taken as a "this is how I actually want Quetz to play". Which it kindof is but less of providing a whole new idea and building on what's already there.

[dreamy wharf]

Yeah, I felt like aerial bite just doesn't work for Quetz.

[thorn crater]

Looks good to me

[dreamy wharf]

And with the movement proposition there, Quetz can just get out of pteranadon airspace even if he didn't have a bite period.

[dreamy wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/you-my-beloved-you-my-beloved-ily-gif-22069713

[random knoll]

if they did need a bite then id say one they cant angle down atleast while flying

[dreamy wharf]

Exactly.

[midnight verge]

i honestly agree with all of this
tho i would add that, even if scavenger isnt the dinos complete niche, i still hope a an opportunistic quetz that can eat semi rotten carcasses
other then that i feel like the spear should be a wind up and aim, maybe more like on omnidirestional stego swing
letting you spear in any direction that is not like.. a complete 180 of where you're facing

[naive onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/apple-music-kid-cudi-chefs-kiss-scott-ramon-seguro-mescudi-gif-23993868

[dreamy wharf]

We're trying to stray alittle bit away from being a pure scavenger. Big bootleg apex dragon with scavenging tendencies.

The spear is a attack that you'll have to aim in a full 180 degrees. It works like hypsi's aim so it's incredibly precise, which is the compromise there. So you're rewarded for really landing those individual hits after a big windup. Think of it like a bow.

Is that okay?

[midnight verge]

ye i guess
i still just want quetz to be able to scavenge without it having to be its main source for food
the big vulture is kinda iconic to me, buut i do agree it should be more than able to kill and hunt since its an apex

[dreamy wharf]

YE

EXACTEMUNDO.

[midnight verge]

[faint folio]

I like the idea. I realize I wasn't asked for feedback, but I'ma give it anyways lol

[dreamy wharf]

No worries at all man.

[faint folio]

I also like how you addressed 2 of my main concerns

[queen mortar]

pure scavenger doesn't make sense if we're thinking stork

which is what it is

@dreamy wharf @midnight verge

[midnight verge]

we dont want it to be a pure scavenger

[faint folio]

1. I REALLY think that the deino mechanic needs to change, for exactly the reason you mentioned. Having 0 chance to get away doesn't make things fun for either the deino nor the thing it snatches. I'm seriously worried fliers would have the same problem if they were able to pick up other living players... Plus, I can see people griefing with it in a way that just isn't possible for crocs

So it's nice that your suggestion takes this into account

[dreamy wharf]

I do agree that Deino's grab isn't all that great but I felt like it served no great purpose for Quetz.

Because Quetz isn't water locked. He isn't totally like

"i've gotta wait ten hours for something to drink to do something".

And since Quetz is freedom personified, it just felt like a cheese mechanic.

[pallid root]

Quetz isn’t as much of an environmental hazard like deino is

[dreamy wharf]

Also this ^

[dreamy wharf]

I'd like to think it is, but like, in a good way.

Like it's fun to both play as and against.

[midnight verge]

quetz is just (gif incoming)

[faint folio]

Yeah. Plus, if you give an apex animal the ability to pick up small/mid tier animals... Then pair it with the Isle's insane fall damage... You get a troll situation where big bird goes swoop, and drops tenos (and everything else it can carry) to their death

[dreamy wharf]

And not "You never see this thing and when you do, you've instantly lost all of your progress because haha grab".

[faint folio]

Which is... Not fun for anyone except the troll

[dreamy wharf]

Hard agree.

[midnight verge]

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-jake-sully-toruk-flying-fly-gif-15961997

[pallid root]

What about different flight controls

[dreamy wharf]

Depends on what's going on with those controls.

Like I feel like the really simple controls work right now, but, could use a physics change later on so that way it feels way better.

[pallid root]

like the whole gliding when younger thing I see people suggest

[dreamy wharf]

FUNNY YOU MENTION THAT.

This was the growth cycle movement mockup I made rq.

[faint folio]

The other concern I had which you addressed is the aerial peck/bite. Pt are hard to kill not because they're tanky are particularly agile, but because their flying peck can keep them out of range of incoming attacks if they play well.

This is fine for the extremely low health and relatively low damage ptera, but it would be absolutely BROKEN if quetz did the same thing, especially with the long neck and beak

[midnight verge]

i just hope quetz is less manourverable than ptera in the sky

[pallid root]

Perhaps climbing when younger up cliff faces and such like a bat or som

[dreamy wharf]

"- Juvenile: Quetzal in it's juvenile stage wouldn't be allowed to fly on it's own, but, can glide off of higher ledges allowing them to have an affinity for more vertically inclined areas, allowing them to use certain biomes to their advantage. In return, Juvenile Quetzalcoatlus is just as agile as it's adult counterpart, with a portion of the speed, and a much more lenient stamina economy which would allow it to be able to fully function as a terrestrial animal. You can call this the terrestrial stage.
- Sub-Adult: In it's sub-adult stage, Quetzalcoatlus can fly with a significantly poorer stamina economy than it's adult counterpart with a running start. To be clear this isn't a suggestion for an albatross run but rather a run into a pole-vault. Which allows for Quetzal to use flight as a traversal tool. In terms of terrestrial traversal, this is when Quetzal would be depreciating in stamina economy in return for even more of it's adult counterpart's speed alongside it's agility and damage. Being on par with a single utahraptor in terms of raw strength. You can call this the aerial stage.
- Adult: An adult Quetzalcoatlus is adept both on the ground and in the air, but master of neither. On the ground, A Quetzal is extremely fast and agile for it's size at the cost of a poor stamina economy incentivizing ambushing. The transition between land to air is near seamless with an almost immediate pole-vault upwards into flight, allowing a Quetz to use flight mid combat or chase to position itself. In the air Quetzal would be slower and much less maneuverable than Pteranadon but have a much better stamina economy, allowing it to glide over vast distances."```

• Early thing```

The idea was that it would switch similar to rexes' lifecycle.

[faint folio]

Or tbh even deino. Baby croc is much better on land usually... Which it needs to be, with cannibalism pressure from adults in the water

[dreamy wharf]

tl;dr

Juvies couldn't fly but can charge up a jump and function entirely well as a terrestrial animal while inheriting the adult's agility, a portion of it's speed, and also having a great on-the-ground stamina economy opposite of it's adult counterpart.

[dreamy wharf]

Oh yeah.

[midnight verge]

now zaan the true question is
do you support more varied nests later on
for example quetz making its nest out of bones (which is confirmed interacable) and sticks

[faint folio]

Idk about bones, simply because I don't know of any living animal that used bones to make nests (though if you have heard of one, I'm glad to learn something new)

[dreamy wharf]

SIR YES SIR.

[midnight verge]

nothing do to with real animals, i just hope for more varied nests, and a few bones would just be thematical for the giant vulture/dragon

[faint folio]

But it would be nice if you could use different materials depending on environment-- so in the swamp nests would be moss, reeds, and grasses, in the forest they would leaves, twigs, branches, etc, in the mountains, rocks and twigs and grasses, etc