general-feedback-discussion

[barren zephyr]

Wasnt even a stress test

[limber hull]

?

[gritty terrace]

yes there was??

there was literally one for the night vision

[limber hull]

And nesting/skins

[low canopy]

ngl the statement about not caring about feedback kinda undermines the point of these channels a ton

[gritty terrace]

that is how we got people to stream it early and have people do feedback on it before it was out

[limber hull]

lmao true. I've seen Punch drop in here every once in a while to respond to some feedback too

[barren zephyr]

The server was never stressed it was just low pop after everyone tested out new stuff and lefg

Left*

[gritty terrace]

no?

the point of the stress test stuff is to get higher populations

that is something the QA couldnt do

[elfin sinew]

Its annoying when you spend hours on a dinosaur and you get stuck and you cant do anything especially as stego

[obsidian jetty]

I actually doubt that they don't care about our feedback or that they only ever listen to the QA people. Just...imagine for a second what would happen if they immediately adjusted the game as soon as someone put something in the feedback channel...I think that's kinda the point here.

[gritty terrace]

I personally think general feedback is an echo chamber either way, without devs communicating back what is the point really

[tough anvil]

yeah u right, when only one people cry about it but actually, it’s a whole group of person who give the same advice abt the night vision (especially for medical thing like trigger and headache)

[obsidian jetty]

I am sure they noticed it's quite a few people who do have issues and are looking into it, just give them some time to figure out what the actual issue is (like what about the current nv is causing the issues - that's why detailed feedback is cool) and what to do about it.

[minor laurel]

It makes me (not) laugh to see poeple without health issues on the NV talking about it like their opinion is the absolute truth.

It is not because poeple don't experience it that it is not a reality somewhere

[limber hull]

@torn willow stego takes more headshot damage than the other creatures

pachy takes less

most creatures take 1.5x damage to the head, stego takes 2x damage and pachy takes 0.75x damage

[jagged jewel]

do stego plates have protection or do they not have a hitbox at all?

[limber hull]

also i find it a bit weird to exclude people without health issues from the conversation, that's kinda not fair. Especially if those people also believe the NV is problematic atm but want it to be improved, not replaced

[torn willow]

i think your talking about the pesky video where he talks about how it should be like that

[limber hull]

I'm not, I'm talking about the actual game stats

[jagged jewel]

i was in filipe stream when this was mentioned, and i copy pasted mr anky's suggestion to make NV less dangerous for those people, and i sh*t you not, one guy replied "epileptic people should not play the game"

[torn willow]

could you send me a screen shot of where it says it i would love to see it but i will go through the dev logs and check it out my self

[minor laurel]

I don't exclude them at all. It is just that they don't have to minimize impact they don't know what they are talking about 🤷

[limber hull]

what the actual hell

[jagged jewel]

it was tested multiple times, it is like that

[limber hull]

its not in devlogs, it's just a fact

[jagged jewel]

carno3 shots pachy on the body

carno 4 shots on head iirc

[limber hull]

175 x 0.75 = 131.25
500 / 131.25 = 3.8
500 / 175 = 2.9
Yea, it takes an additional hit

[jagged jewel]

exactly, why should epileptic people not be able to play the game just because they physically and quite literally cannot handle one of the mechanics?

of course they should play the game, and ofc the devs should do something about the NV

[limber hull]

also thanks for mentioning my ideas to filipe lmao

[jagged jewel]

👍

then other people come in saying "well i'm epileptic and i'm fine"

good for you ig

[limber hull]

"ok cool"

[tough anvil]

yep! just notice us that they hear what people said and take their time for give us a better experience in their game
or just don’t put a feedback chanel if they don’t want to use it or hear about it 😭

[minor laurel]

Yeah that is that type of behaviour i was talking about, sadly

[limber hull]

yea, i dont think that behaviour is acceptable either

saying "oh epileptics should just not play" is so dumb

[jagged jewel]

people should never be denied an experience they enjoy just because of health issues

atleast in gaming

[tough anvil]

yes really, games re for everyone who want to play!

[lapis swallow]

Because game developers can make them accessible to almost everyone and changing nightvision so it does not trigger people anymore should be top priority

[torn willow]

ty for telling me i went and re-watched his video and i mistook it as him saying that they should have it be this way. but since i re-watched it i realize that he was saying that is the current scaling of headshot damage.

i have removed the pachy one but i still feel like deino should be able to 3-4 alt bite its head because stegos dont show their head that often that and their head is small and like i said deino (at least in real life) is said to have a stronger bite force than a rex

[limber hull]

i dont agree with deino being so good at dispatching stego.

[torn willow]

thats your opinion i was just expressing mine

[limber hull]

if deino is that good at killing stego, nothing stops it from becoming U3's land deino again

[jagged jewel]

your opinion is bad for the game

also deino likely had a slightly weaker bite, as it tackled smaller prey and didn't need such a strong bite

the crocodylomorph that probably DID have a stronger bite was purussaurus

[zealous stone]

If the only thing changing is head hit damage multipliers, isn't stegos head going to hard to hit if the stego is actively trying to avoid it getting hit? I'll admit I skimmed through the suggestion a bit fast.

Deino's lackluster mobility means it's going to be hard to take advantage of it outside of water.

[jagged jewel]

yea

[torn willow]

i had had a stego find me even when i was in the corner of the map and out stam me and i was a utah with 80% stam.
it is a game, a game will be hacked but for the people that are playing the game normally it just feel terrible when you get 4-5 shot from a steg even when you have got 4-5 headshots on it and then it just runs away and heals even though it started the fight.
im not trying to argue im just stating that as it is stego is too powerful and can only be bled out by utahs or be stupid and die to like 4 deinos because it thought it could solo them all.
i still feel like they should 1 shot headshot most the creatures but they should not be an absolute tank and if you read my thing carefully im saying different dinos can do different headshot damage to different dinos not all should do about 4 times headshot damage to steg im just saying deinos should.
im stopping here to not cause any more fuss have a good night or day

[jagged jewel]

how the hell did a stego outstam a utah lmao

that's just a speed hacking stego at that point

because it is quite literally impossible for that to happen

also 2 deinos can kill a stego with coordination, no need for 4

[torn willow]

yeah he was saying about how a deino hacked on EU3 and i said that i have seen stegs hack

[jagged jewel]

if deino did 4 times headshot damage it would like 3 shot stego

that is not good for the game and would result in land deinos populating the map

[torn willow]

well thats why i said almost 4 times

[jagged jewel]

stego HAS to be this strong to avoid deinos from living on land

[zealous stone]

This is off topic, but are you sure about this? I put some research into it and I can't find anything on it.

[jagged jewel]

i believe so, i had a pretty long discussion with daltonius about it

rex tackled far larger prey, which is already a huge factor

[torn willow]

this guy knows that deino is not going to be as fast or have as much stam as a stego same with mobility a steg can still go in front of a deino on land and kill it

[jagged jewel]

and most prey it lived with was likely either faster than it, or was armored

[zealous stone]

I read that larger deinosuchus likely would've hunted large prey.

[jagged jewel]

such as?

[zealous stone]

I'll admit it was on Wikipedia, not the most reliable source

[jagged jewel]

large prey i agree, but def not larger or more dangerous than the prey rex tackled

[zealous stone]

Well obviously, it's not dragging a full grown Edmontosaurus

[jagged jewel]

the largest thing deinosuchus would've killed was para, which COULD reach huge sizes, but those individuals were likely just safe from attacks by deinos at that point

[zealous stone]

How heavy was para?

[jagged jewel]

it had individuals that could reach 17 tons, but very very rare

on average they were smaller than edmontosaurus

[zealous stone]

Well a 17 ton para would be able to resist a drown attempt by a deino, no doubt about that

[jagged jewel]

anything at that size could haha

[zealous stone]

Yeah though a think a styraco or alberta, while risky, are options.

[jagged jewel]

that is true

[neon zephyr]

Heya ^^

I wanted to say ty for your concerns. 🧡

Thankfully on mine it's 100+ vs. 3; but I also wanted to let you know that a member of the QA actually reached out to me for some more info about the accessibility options/changes made in the other games I mentioned. ✨

Another big thanks to anyone on the QA team seeing this, bc it was a really nice feeling - and definitely shows they are paying (probably more) attention than what people think.

[jagged jewel]

the point is, deinosuchus likely didn't need such a strong bite as rex's, let alone more

but this is a game, and it's game balance talk

deinosuchus should NOT be able to 4 shot stego

[zealous stone]

Agreed, though stego also shouldn't be able to get away with bullying deinos by the water.

[torn willow]

i agree with that. but a stego head is small enough to fit in a deinos mouth and since deino is a scaled up vesion of the aligator then we can guess based on its size how much bite force it would have. now i know that it was a dinosaur and we dont know what its bite force would have been it is a safe bet that it was still a lot maybe not double the bite force of a rex but still a lot

[jagged jewel]

I never said the bite was weak, just that it was likely weaker than rex's

[jagged jewel]

They only get away with it because the deinos choose to fight it lmao, the deinos can avoid all stegos they find for all their life

see a stego? either submerge underwater or turn around

[zealous stone]

I think estimating Deino's and Rex's bite force relative to each other based off prey options isn't likely to be reliable, as they'd have vastly different hunting method and employ their bites differently.

[jagged jewel]

if you die to a stego it's likely not because of balance issues, it's because you chose too

[jagged jewel]

That is correct, but having such a strong bite would require a lot of energy for something like deino no? Specially with prey above 8 tons being quite rare.

[zealous stone]

I almost agree with you, but I don't. It seems out of place for someone to be able to get away with being that cocky in a survival horror game when dealing with an animal larger than it.

[jagged jewel]

Again, the deinos only die to stegos if they go out of their way to engage in combat with stegos.

If deinos were smart and just stayed away from the units that stegos are, most if not all stegos would jump off cliffs from boredom.

Which is good.

Deino only has 2 things to worry about in the entire game, stegos and other deinos. Both of those can be easily avoided.

[zealous stone]

I don't see anything good about the best strategy being making your adversary get so bored they kill themselves in game.

[jagged jewel]

It's better than land crocs being everywhere.

[zealous stone]

That just makes the game less interesting for both stegos and deinos

[zealous stone]

I never said give deino an advantage on land, that would be stupid

Obviously if a deino chases the stego onto land, it should get punished for it.

[jagged jewel]

But giving deino the advantage in combat in any situation apart from the stego crossing the river is stupid as well.

Deino is fine 6 shotting stego with headshots, specially when it has the second fastest attack in the game.

2 deinos are enough to kill a stego if they are smart and coordinated

[torn willow]

my point is not about avoiding because if everyone avoided everyone then it would not be a fun game but deinos have to aim for a little head while steg can just swing away and hit deinos head easier thats why if your able to get a headshot on a steg it should be punishing to the steg now to balance this out i would make it so stegs dont get stuned from deinos lung. also it would bring the thrill back to steg so it doesn't cross wherever it pleases

[jagged jewel]

it can't cross wherever it pleases

if an adult deino sees a stego crossing, it can rush in and kill it before it reaches land

[limber hull]

stego has the slowest swimspeed in the game btw

[jagged jewel]

does it? it feels faster than pachy

[torn willow]

but thats the thing it is hard to hit a headshot i had (give they were bad deinos) 4 deinos thats including me attack 1 went for head i went for first stun another person went for 2 stun once it got out of the stun animation and the last person got body shots and even with all that it got across though it was close to dead at least i think it was

[zealous stone]

That doesn't happen very often. Also having the largest predator and largest herbivore not interact at all being the best way to play from a logical stand point seem a bit flawed to me. Stego's only real threat is boredom, and the occasional Utah pack, and deinos only threat is deino. If you encourage deino to hunt stegos by making it a relatively even matchup on river shores, then they'll both kill each other more often.

[jagged jewel]

it's not hard to hit headshots at all, just hide until the stego faces forward, go for 3 headshots, and let the other deino do the same

if you were facing towards the deinos and they missed most headshots then i'm sorry they just sucked

[torn willow]

the steg was swimming across but yeah i think the guy aiming for headshots sucked but he still hit something because there was blood when he bit and he looked like he was at the head

[zealous stone]

This reminds, how good is the hit registration?

[jagged jewel]

If a deino and a stego are facing eachother and the deino bites its 100% hitting the head

sometimes it has issues though

[limber hull]

lmao the latest feedback is a shining example of why the devs probably dislike looking in that channel (it's also blatantly false)

[zealous stone]

I remember a while back, I landed headshots on a stego and they didn't even bleed. Or at least it looks like it landed because my jaws were literally on its head. This happened twice in a row with two different stegos. I was newer to the game at the time, so maybe the head was in my torso and I remember it incorrectly or something, but I really thought I hit it.

[jagged jewel]

Idk, but its not really hard to kill cocky stegos as deino in my experience

[zealous stone]

I haven't tried again since, other than one time I ambushed one crossing and it was able to tank all the hits, don't remember if I was going for the head or not to be honest.

[jagged jewel]

Prob not

It takes roughly 6 seconds to kill a stego with headshots

[zealous stone]

That one might've been my fault, though to be fair it was a very short crossing.

I haven't really gotten another chance to attack a stego as deino in a few dozen hours of game time, since I haven't caught one crossing.

[torn willow]

btw i never died to steg but i was in a few fights and the one i remember most was when there was 6 or so deinos vs 3 stegs and we were only focusing one but they kept getting away one would almost die and go heal far away from the water while the other 2 got on each side of the water and stoped us from going on land to heal and we tried strats like raming the backside and have someone else bite the head but they would always just run ver far up on land and heal and we could do nothing i think 4 of the 6 died me being one of the six and i lived

[jagged jewel]

I’m sorry but if 6 deinos can’t kill 1 stego it’s unironically a skill issue

[torn willow]

we did manage to kill one because i think they wanted to stop the fight and they tried to cross sneakily but died because they were low health

[zealous stone]

Stego definitely shouldn't be an easy kill for deino, and really should be pretty safe from it outside of the water, but it shouldn't be able to just sit on the river bank with it's tail in water without consequence.

[torn willow]

but one steg for 4 deinos does not seem fair

[zealous stone]

I get you can just avoid it, but having the two most powerful members of the roster ignore each other just seems weird.

Deino should be encouraged to hunt stego so more of them die to it, so you have more than cannibalism controlling their population. They can both keep each other in check.

[torn willow]

i agree but if stego plays it right it will never have to get its head bit even more so if we remove the deino stun so stegs can run or punish deinos that try and grab or bite it because stegs can still have their tail in the water while having their head in the shalow spots close to shore

[violet magnet]

that's awesome to hear! Hope you're doing well

[zealous stone]

Increasing the threat deinos pose to stego will also make both of their gameplay more interesting, as stego has something to worry about other than rare mega packs, and Deino has more hunting opportunities that carry actual risk.

[neon zephyr]

Yes I am 🧡 Tysm

Hope you're having a good day ^^

[zealous stone]

I really can't see how the average player is going to be mad if deinos and stegos kill each other more often.

They are probably the two most hated members of the current roster.

[jagged jewel]

I’ve already said multiple times 2 deinos are more than enough

1 goes for 3 headshots, retreats and the second does the same

Boom, dead stego

[zealous stone]

Also this has been in general feedback the whole time

[zealous stone]

Also I'd like to continue this in #paleotalk

[sweet yacht]

@trail mesa Dondi said there is a "whole new atmosphere" waiting to be put in and that the stress test will get to see it before the live build does. I wouldn't worry if I were you since they probably want to release the new atmosphere once the new map is done or something to that effect.

[trail mesa]

I’m hoping so, and if it does happen that they do it well

[barren zephyr]

What is exactly meant with new atmosphere

[jagged jewel]

day and night cycle

[dusk meteor]

The new atmosphere might be nice but they need to change the weird sun too. The sun rises in the south, then teleports to the north when we get that bright flash they should at least make it east to west. Some people who have common sense knowledge but can't read the compass may legit try to use the sun. In fact, I've met people that do this.
Joke's on them i guess, the sun is an SCP

[grave dagger]

@left storm im gonna be real wiht you, I don't think the nv is that bad, I do think NV on open fields needs adjusting slightly though

[dusk meteor]

i don't thinkthe concept is inherently bad but it's not a good first build to make public. It needed a significantly longer time in the oven to deal with the strain on the eyes and to give back on the promise of colour in NV.

I think hunting with the nv is fun because it's so dreadfully dark. People panic and I'm constantly having to re-track down my target.
but it's so terribly flawed and it makes me feel sick so I can't support it

[tidal rose]

Are you serious.... i wanted to put in feedback but it contained something the discord didnt want but it set the timer back to 6 hour wait...

[limber hull]

i know, epic isn't it, thanks discord

[tidal rose]

ugh

[limber hull]

absolutely amazing feature they have here

[dusk meteor]

amazing, wonderful
6 hours will be up before long if you takeyour mind off of it tbh

[distant belfry]

Ugh
I swear to god if the devs dont listen to us then so help me--

My poor friend - the night vision literally makes her dizzy and gives her migraines. She's stopped playing the isle altogether, and she freaking LOVES this game

[dusk meteor]

They wanted feedback, they got it. Now we'll have to wait and see if they do anything soonish or leave the game in this state for months

[distant belfry]

Honestly legacy night-vision is better. Why couldn't they have just improved upon that?

I've always hated the night being pitch black. I just want to see

[ripe thistle]

The neat thing about my post is that I explained trying everything I could to make it painful, and even went through the trouble of asking folks I know with severe photosensitivity to take a look. I get "good will" and all that but you have to keep in mind the state of the internet's community. Obviously some folks are having trouble, not refuting that. But at the same time, I can guarantee there are numerous jumping on the bandwagon with no way to disprove their claim. Because up until now, it didnt affect the insane number of cases of photosensitivity. Despite the lighting in the game during the day causing similar issues. I guarantee if people fixed their gamma, problems would ar least alleviate or, best case, go away entirely. And for the record? Legacy night vision gave me severe eye strain. I didn't fuss to have it changed because of it. And apparently, no one else has either. So the dozens of people or more calling for legacy would be a problem for me. But again, I'm not fussing over it. Simply stating that a system shouldn't be scrapped because some folks are having problems.

And fyi: every game on the market has epilepsy warnings. But sure, they could add a great big pop up to make it obscenely obvious. Because it's on the devs to make sure folks with an issue take care of themselves.

Ps: this is still very much a system in development. If you're not satisfied with the current iteration, take a break. Play legacy for its nv. Or be patient and give actual feedback on how to adjust the system. Not scrap it because the gamma gimmick is now potentially painful for folks with sensitive eyes. Which is what the community almost unanimously wanted. But of course, countering gamma gimmicks means people actually have to stop using it.

[dusk meteor]

It's on the devs to make sure that the health implications of their product are known to buyers, not that they take care of themselves. This is similar to basically every other game that includes a prominent in-game warning about flashes (also usually horror or actions games tbh), movies and edible products with allergens.Because this happened over an update, people aren't exactly going to be going in knowing the risk. There are people that play the game that aren't on a discord.

You can argue for incompetency or ignorance pre-update since their QA and stress test pool is probably limited.

But leaving it after being told repeatedly is incompetent at best and irresponsible business practice at worst. 👀

It's literally illegal where I live to do this because it's considered discriminatory lmao

[limber hull]

Legacy NV has a plethora of issues that make it pretty poor to use in this game with its given plans

[distant belfry]

The thing is, though - Legacy night vision and Evrima night vision are VERY different. Just because YOU don't have a problem doesn't mean there isn't one

People with epilepsy and photosensitivity can't just "fix" their brain. And no amount of warnings can fix that either.

This is way more serious than just "jumping on a bandwagon." Have you ever thought that maybe everyone is saying these things because maybe it's an actual problem?

Literally the easiest solution would be to get rid of the night vision until they've improved it fully. It doesn't make sense to have this out and it not be finished

[summer forge]

Even if some people jump on the bandwagons, you can't just put everyone in the same bag and ignore people who actually have issues with the new NV. And it's also on the devs to make sure that their playerbase does get ill when playing their game, otherwise, as Frostdrop1 said, this is just discriminatory because it's the same as saying that if people with photosensitivity issues can't play the game, then it's on them.

[ripe thistle]

I'm going to guess you didnt read the whole post. Because it's not just me who look at the current iteration with no issue, or minimal. Just like it wasnt just me who haf issues with legacy nv. But I'm tired of talking to brick walls who dont have an ounce of critical thought for themselves. So here's to hoping the devs are too

[ripe thistle]

Absolutely not. It's not discriminatory to have a system in place that can be remedied by adjusting personal settings. You can't be serious. But i know you are, and that tells me it's time to stop wasting mine. Good luck.

[summer forge]

as for your last argument, I haven't touched the game in months now because of the devs' incompetency to listen to their playerbase or at the very least share where they're at.

also I'm pretty sure it would be a lot quicker to just change the night vision overall rather than making a whole menu to adjust it

[dusk meteor]

It doesn't matter if you didn't have an issue. The isle currently has no warning in place, so no not every game on the market has epilepsy warnings. I like the nv in some ways, but this is stupid. Until there's a warning in place people have a legal claim to sue if they're injured because of the game. they don't have to change the nv but it would be wise to include a prominent warning

If they at least add a warning on start-up they can ignore people to their heart's content

[distant belfry]

I did read your post several times over, and to be honest, most of it didn't even make an ounce of sense.

Your complete disrespect towards people that actually have photosensitivity and epilepsy really shows here. Do you seriously think people are pretending??

Some visual effects are worse than others. Some people may have worse of a time with legacy night vision or even just the game itself. However the new night vision is really affecting people, way more than all the other things - which anyone with a brain would think that means it needs to be fixed.

I'm sick of people like you shrugging off people's ACTUAL HEALTH because you can't think of anyone but yourself

Like I said before - more people are speaking up about it because it's affecting more people. That's literally how this works

If this night vision affects people WITHOUT photosensitivity issues, what do you think it does to people with it???

[summer forge]

I read feedback about someone who's getting really bad headaches and eye pain even though they're on really strong epilepsy medication too

[distant belfry]

Exactly
This is a serious problem

[ripe thistle]

@distant belfry So you didnt read my post, where i mentioned getting others with damaged or imperfect eyes. Or the fact that other versions - even the current day cycle - werent perfected for everyone either?

"Sick of people like you shrugging off people's health" like you are when i mention that the previous night and current day system has caused me problems in the past? Do try to keep in mind that I'm in no way saying "it's fine as it is", and even made a point not to. Because it can be adapted or modified. But no, it doesnt need scrapped. This isnt mob rule.

And again, for the umpteenth time: if people are having problems, adjust your monitor settings. Some games dont play well with some setups. At least try to rememdy the problem before screaming "it doesnt work at all".

And if you want to talk about ignoring something, do the people not having a problem not matter at all? The folks who like it have no say because of folks who don't? It's called balance. Not obedience. The current system doesnt screw with everyone, which means it can be tweaked and adjusted. Much easier than developing a whole new system. Bloom effect, particle density, etc.

[distant belfry]

Your statements conflicted each other a lot. If you meant something other than what you said, and other than what you've been arguing here about, rephrase it.

You're really not making any sense at all

[limber hull]

this topic sucks because its so sensitive that people will use any disagreement with their views to make you out as a horrible person. Everyone here (who isn't a complete dick) acknowledges and is rallied behind the need for accessibility improvements. But calling people epileptic haters because they like the CONCEPT of the current system is too far imho

[summer forge]

I'd say people having no problem with is have less of a say as what was implemented doesn't physically hurt them

[dusk meteor]

You just put everything down to settings and gamma.
Personally, I'm not photosensitive but the nv gives me motion sickness from the multiple outlines created. This isn't a severe issue, but it results its something I can't control and means I spend a good potion of the night afk on a rock.

I can't imagine people with severe issues and how they handle it, and then they get people like you who put it down to just gamma and settings: " I guarantee if people fixed their gamma, problems would ar least alleviate or, best case, go away entirely."

[distant belfry]

"Do the people not having a problem not matter" are you listening to yourself??

People that don't have a problem, DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM! They couldn't care less if it changes because it WON'T AFFECT THEM

[limber hull]

But I don't have a problem with it and WOULD care if it was changed because I LIKE IT

[distant belfry]

I never said they were an "epileptic hater" whatever that means. I'm just saying that they're being completely disrespectful and insensitive. These are real world health issues

[summer forge]

Also I'm going to go back to something I said a while ago but literally no one is forcing the devs to release features one after another like they do

they could've just made the night less dark and released NV later

or make it like, you know the trailer they advertised the game with (I'm sorry if my tone sounds dismissive)

[dusk meteor]

Liking something is kind of less important than the system causing issues with people. If the issues caused are minor or are a minority of the community or are an accepted risk, then it can be ignored and we can all move on. The problem is that the risk is not accepted, not warned, is not minor and it's affecting more people.

There is a balance to be had here, but the current build doesn't achieve it

[distant belfry]

Okay, let me ask you this: other than you liking the night vision and it not affecting you, why would you care? Especially if it's affecting other people?

[limber hull]

Why would they do that in the NV update

[summer forge]

no one is holding a gun at their head

[distant belfry]

Exactly my thoughts

[limber hull]

Because I haven't heard a better way to do the system from a design standpoint

[distant belfry]

And if you did?

[limber hull]

Then colour me impressed

[summer forge]

they could've simply pushed the NV update to later

they've done it before

[dusk meteor]

I think the gloom is considerably better and plenty of support is rallied behind the idea. While the current outlines are stylised and cool they don't fit the game very well tbh

[limber hull]

They fit fine imho

[ripe thistle]

Isle cycle of life in a nutshell:

Fix the gamma gimmick! makes night insanely dark

This is horrible (it is/was) give us night vision! gives night vision

This is horrible! Make it light again! makes it light again

Fix the gamma gimmick!

Also if you like something we dont, you dont matter.

---

I'm so done with this conversation. There's no reasoning with people like this. Starting to see why the devs dont communicate.

[dusk meteor]

I've previously explained that it just robs the skin system of relevance at night. I think this fundamentally undermines ambushing and camo, thus not fitting the game.

[summer forge]

from what I've seen, the outlines look sick in the plains but as soon as you're in a bushy area like forests, it's really too much.

[dusk meteor]

I think that can be addressed, but its just not where it needs to be yet

[limber hull]

It's the other way around, the forests seem awesome, whereas the plains seem gross and cluttered

[dusk meteor]

^ I second that

[limber hull]

Which is why I'd like to see patterns outlined on the animal with NV

[dusk meteor]

that would be even worse

[limber hull]

How??

[summer forge]

because the current issue is that there is too much outlines

[dusk meteor]

because then your pattern will stand out, especially in the plains. It adds more detail to complicate the mess and doesn't address the problem at all, it just layers on a new one.

The outlines in themselves are the cause of the issues with camo and hiding. Adding more lines doesnt fix that

[limber hull]

The opposite imho, more detail means you blend in more. The issue right now is you're a massive walking dino blob, which makes you quite notable. WIth more patterns, you become more "leaflike" and not immediately identifiable when hidden amongst foliage

[dusk meteor]

This is nv right now. This is what needs to be fixed and addressed in terms of outlining. Patterns highlighting will not address this. Patterns highlighting will not bring in colour to make camo relevant again, and patterns will also not help differentiate people at night

[ripe thistle]

@limber hull they dont care about the concept. Only the affect some people are having. Improving its usefulness takes the trunk in this conversation

[limber hull]

fair, it's sad really

[tardy talon]

The outlining looks terrible right now, if they’re gonna stick with it this needs a lot of improvement. Head is barely outlined

[dusk meteor]

Yes because the image I posted is me really not caring about the concept lmao
This isn't even dealing with photosensitivity any more, it's do to with how well the mechanic is actually functioning.

I legitimately think outlines around other players should be entirely removed and the brightness altered to accomodate that

Do I know is that'll work? No. But it's causing problems with the core concept of the nv is just the lines around other players

[limber hull]

that feels like it kinda defeats the point of NV

[dusk meteor]

no, nv exists so you can see at night. Keeping outlines around foliage means it remains visible and making your radius of visibility brighter means colour can be incorporated again so you can see players, distinguish them and also still allows them to sneak up on your without being a light bulb

This does not address the sensitivity issues, only the ones at the core of the nv design

[tardy talon]

If players were the only thing not outlined wouldn’t they stand out more?

[limber hull]

lmao true

[zealous stone]

Yeah, you'd see a shadowy figure walking around

[dusk meteor]

No, because the outliens would actually sit over player models. the outline is whats causing people to glow like in the image

[ripe thistle]

How well the mechanic functions? It's incredible. I can see creatures stalking through the plains at night, but if i dont move you almost cant see me (or them if reversed). In the forest it's harder to chase rather than just following big blue "they went this way" indicators from tracking footprints.

[dusk meteor]

it's putting the player over the other outlines by the looks of it

[zealous stone]

Especially in forest

[dusk meteor]

although tbh it's night time
you want shadowy figures, not light bulbs

[limber hull]

thing is though, in legacy, wasn't it also quite easy to see other dinosaurs?

[dusk meteor]

the game didn't highlight them for you

[zealous stone]

If there some shadow Carno walking through a forest of bright white outlines, it's hard not to see it.

[summer forge]

they could also add less outlines to the foliage.

[limber hull]

adding more lines seems like it'd be better to make an animal blend in tbh

[dusk meteor]

Even I don't know how this looks, so honestly idk how you can it would need to be built and tested before we know

[dusk meteor]

More outlines won't fix this

The player is a literal white blob

I would guess that players without outlines would theoretically be layered behind more foreground outlines and when other things are black you would more see at distance them by them blocking out the outlines which makes use of negative space. However, the majority of the screen is taken up by negative space.

This issue is not to address combat in forests. Combat would likely remain largely the same since players currently just look like shadowy figures albeit with an outline. The forests look great, the plains are trash and players currently don't interact properly with grass. I haven't seen anyone ambush from a bush yet

i'd like to see how that looks atm is anyone's got an image

[ripe thistle]

Except it would. Crouching in foliage or grass would eliminate the "zero space" visual. So you would undoubtedly be harder to spot

If covered in various pattern lines

[dusk meteor]

again: refer to image

the current build mkes you a lightbulb, the pattern won't even show

[ripe thistle]

The current build is still a work in progress and adding patterns is the whole topic of debate about making you easier or harder to spot

[dusk meteor]

In the forests, you'll be harder. In the plains -idk
possibly easier

although idk if what is essentially just adding clutter is a good way to go

Clutter is added on purpose to confuse, but that's exactly what gives people headaches and strain

[distant belfry]

I think it would be better if they used a different kind of effect, maybe even similar to what a cat might see in the dark

More of a grayscale than a negative space, just with a wider range of vision than legacy, and maybe adjusted a bit so that dinos are harder to spot, or that specific dinos see other creatures better. Maybe even including some sort of heat vision effect as a special ability on a nocturnal dino such as troodon or dilo

Something easier on the eyes but something that doesn't affect the difficulty of gameplay

[limber hull]

greyscale is just replacing one human NV for another

[distant belfry]

Or even like a night-vision camera - since the isle has that overall scientific aspect with technology

[limber hull]

also "legacy NV but with wider range" is still legacy

and it still has all the problems of legacy

[dusk meteor]

greyscale v black and white is a reasonable argument imo, it has different qualities and lot of people are ready to consider just moving the system anyway

and no, all the problems of legacy is literally a dumb thing to say.

For the system to be brought into evrima it's need to be built from the ground up to accomodate the new ideas, which means it might get similar issues but will probably just have new ones

[burnt bone]

If they find a way to help make it more accessible to photosensitive people, then I’m happy with the current NV

[uneven mist]

Same

[dusk meteor]

The best solution for photosensitive people is probably to add photosensitive settings

[burnt bone]

I am perfectly fine with the current NV so I don’t know how they would change it tho.

[limber hull]

I mean, they DO need to change it 100%

[dusk meteor]

agreed.

[limber hull]

its literally non-negotiable

it needs changes

[distant belfry]

Even this would be reasonable

[dusk meteor]

The issue is just everyone had different ideas on how it should change lmao

[distant belfry]

Kinda like how Beasts of Bermuda has a setting to make the skins look less bright for photosensitive players

[limber hull]

I still think the best path is to improve what we have

[limber hull]

The fact that BoB has to have an option to stop their skins from giving people seizures really captures why I despise BoB lmao

[distant belfry]

Well at least the option is there XD

[dusk meteor]

BoB: neon dinosaurs

but yes having the option is better than not having it for sure LOL

[limber hull]

If your dinosaur skins are literal hazards to people's health, that's beyond ridiculous

[tardy talon]

So they put in place a measure to stop it?

I don’t get what’s wrong with having the option for bright skins

[distant belfry]

Same argument goes for night vision

[limber hull]

(could've just not had the stupid ass skins)

[dusk meteor]

to be fair, i dont like bob but it's not the isle. It's designed to be more cartoony

[tardy talon]

Some people like them 🤷

[limber hull]

Not really, NV is a more complicated mechanic. They could've just NOT put in the bright ass skins, NV is literally messing with light against dark

[tardy talon]

But they wanted to have bright skins???

[limber hull]

And they wanted this type of NV

[tardy talon]

They put in a filter to make them more realistic and epilepsy inducing

[dusk meteor]

nah, it's the same thing. It's all just dealing with values and brightness, this type of nv goes down the same problems that neon bob skins have

[tardy talon]

Yeah so TI should put in an option which makes it less epileptic at least

[distant belfry]

I mean you could say the same thing about NV

if night vision is a literal hazard to people's health, that's beyond ridiculous

[limber hull]

Give them a hot minute to do that

[dusk meteor]

versus greyscale which just straight up shouldn't have this issue as much because it's softer
but
boring

[limber hull]

I still think skins are more ridiculous on the merit that having a dinosaur be a seizure hazard in its very existence is absurd

[dusk meteor]

I agree, more concepually absurd.
But they do have options to negate the issue

[burnt bone]

That sentence without context is comedic gold

[limber hull]

ikr

[dusk meteor]

And if an option exists to negate the issue idc that they went that route. It's a cartoony dino game which had oversized animals that glow with the brightness of a thousand suns

[limber hull]

"This T-Rex is designed to send my foes into epileptic shock, allowing me the upper hand in our battle!"

[lapis swallow]

Digital Bio warfare

[blissful helm]

@graceful meteor not very constructive

if you don't like EVRIMA at the moment, PLAY LEGACY

[limber hull]

Legacy has been most of that time

[lapis swallow]

Its been 2ish years. Evrima is a new game

[limber hull]

Recode = recode. It's not an asset flip, it's a recode, it takes time to do that stuff

It's already got more mechanics than legacy within those 2 years lmao

[blissful helm]

Oh wow, an indie team is trying to combine basically 3 games into one

[snow meadow]

I don't really care about all that I'd just like to not puke when NV is turned on.

[blissful helm]

its a beta version

[limber hull]

That seems like a very personal preference lmao, I like a lot of the mechanics

"The dev team doesn't pay attention to its community!"
The community:

You know you can just not play the game my good man

[blissful helm]

people complain about the Isle being a beta, but other games have been in early access for YEARS

[distant belfry]

Honestly after 7 years you'd think they'd start listening....

[snow meadow]

The isle community has always been toxic tbh. I've been here for years and watched distance grow between devs and the player base as the dev team got bigger and the players got angrier. It's not gonna get any better imo.

[distant belfry]

This

[blissful helm]

THEN WHY DO YOU COMPLAIN SPECIFICALLY ABOUT AN INDIE GAME

[limber hull]

What the hell does that have to do with the Isle

[blissful helm]

and btw caps don't make your message better

[snow meadow]

I remember actually talking with Dondi during his live streams. Haven't seen him do that in years

[limber hull]

Early Access isn't a mortal sin mate

[blissful helm]

bro its a goddamn game, dont compare it to warcrimes

[limber hull]

I've spoken to Dondi in a VC with just me and him, and the stuff he's told me makes me understand why he doesn't talk to the community anymore.

Did he just get banned

[ripe thistle]

Hope so

[faint folio]

Honestly coming from another game community which shares similar issues with the isle's dev team... I was shocked at how angry the isle's community is. It's honestly kinda impressive that people hate the game so much and still play it

[snow meadow]

I remember him making many comments about the community. Although tbh his attitude didn't help the atmosphere either

[snow meadow]

Pvp makes people salty and the isle devs used to be pretty sassy themselves. It kinda just created a culture of its own in here imo

[limber hull]

Oh dude, if you can hear about what the community has said and done to him personally you'd get it. I've kind of always respected devs who speak their mind and don't hold back, but the community expects dev to be a yesman robot who speaks to them like they were speaking onto a king and loses their marbles with Dondi's behaviour

[faint folio]

Honestly even without talking to dondi in vc... Looking through the discord makes me understand why the devs don't talk to the community anymore. People are seriously aggro about everything

[uneven mist]

It’s the same with for honor

[limber hull]

Dondi has been through a LOT all things considered

[ripe thistle]

And it's largely just demands and attempts at mob rule. A few helpful comments, mostly just whining

[limber hull]

People complain so much about the dev team, but I honestly think it's the community that are the really toxic ones

[ripe thistle]

Well yeah. That's the internet lol

[limber hull]

Also compared to another game I know (and used to work on), the Isle's updates are much faster lmao

[snow meadow]

I think there's legitimate concerns and frustrations over the direction they've gone in some areas. But some people are a bit unhinged

[potent arrow]

@deft vault I think he was talking more about no being able to trust feedback about balancing not all feedback in general. But the thing about the headaches with night vision, tbh I wouldn't really be able to trust a bunch of random people's feedback complaining about headachs, because I think it would be more likely that a lot of people might be saying that just because they dont like the new NV, like he said.

Im not saying that it's definitely not causing headaches, but I think its more likely that others are using that excuse to get night vision changed even if they are not affected in that way, which suck for those who it actually gives headaches too.

[faint folio]

I'm not saying that there aren't things that deserve negative feedback (getting nothing but "you're doing great" isn't helpful), but a lot of the community is truly insufferable. A lot of the feedback is just "I demand it this way or I'll stop playing" instead of civil actionable "I dislike this mechanic, here's why specifically and one way I think it could be improved"

[limber hull]

Also "this bad, me no like, game bad, me uninstall and think you all big moron" is not constructive criticism

so much feedback which boils down to "i personally dislike this and refuse to explain why but make it your problem that i dislike it"

[snow meadow]

I mean, NV literally did give me a headache. I think it looks awful and hope it changes. I don't really know how to fix it or how better to articulate. But I'm not lying just because I wanna be an ass to them

[limber hull]

difference here is you explained what the problem was and explained why it needed fixing

[snow meadow]

Legacy NV wasn't perfect and had many issues but I never heard of it causing people physical pain to use

[limber hull]

Thus you have provided better feedback than 95% of this community

[snow meadow]

I read a lot of well articulated posts I just think it's buried and overshadowed by angry people

And I really don't think the devs read this stuff at all anymore.

[faint folio]

Explaining that it is bad because it gives you a headache when you use it is actually helpful feedback-- it explains what you dislike about it

[faint folio]

Apparently they don't. And although it's a shame, and they're missing out on good feedback... I don't really blame them. The feedback channels are kinda dumpster fires at this point. Lots of irrational angry people

[snow meadow]

There are ways to repair your relationship with your community, if you try. In the end the players are their cash source and alienating them rarely works well for game developers in the end. So, I can blame them a bit, it's their job. It isn't the players job. But there is a level of player responsibility for respect and patience that I think has been gone from the isle for maaaaany years

[faint folio]

Well, exactly. If the players want respect and to be heard... They need to themselves give respect. Funding something doesn't entitle people to be as rude as they want and still be guaranteed an ear

[snow meadow]

It won't happen so long as people feel ignored.

[faint folio]

And people will be ignored as long as they are toxic and ugly to the devs

[snow meadow]

Yeah that's why I don't think it'll change lol

[faint folio]

Oh for sure lol

[tardy talon]

Nah, that’s not a good excuse. If the devs aren’t gonna read the feedback because they’re afraid of angry people, they should not have these channels at all.

[snow meadow]

I think it'd definitely have to be the dev team to extend the first olive branch. Maybe a community live Q&A or a new active community manager. I've seen other indie games do this and imo the ones that do this from the start have the best communities. The Isle used to kinda do this but tbh dondi dished it out as much as he took it.

He wasn't shy about his disdain for people in general back in the day. But the isle is more for a lack of better words, professionally managed now compared to back then. They could do it if they wanted

[tardy talon]

I mean, they already do Q&A’s (mostly from punch, kissen, filipe, and dondi) but the Q&A’s usually just devolve into
“when is [x dinosaur] coming???”
“Idk”
Personally I’d rather they did polls or responded to popular feedback/suggestions.

[snow meadow]

At this point I think they kinda just wanna make the game for themselves and hope people play it and like it. And I don't really mean that as a criticism I just genuinely believe that's their attitudes rn

I mainly come in here to see if other people are having the same issues as I am.

[blissful helm]

i at least TRY to ask interesting questions, i know other people do too, but I agree. It does turn into that

[dusk meteor]

As long as feedback is reasoned, it's worthwhile but ya when you have open feedback channels a good chunk of it is just rubbish unless they're on the same page. But sometimes the team doesn't help itself either. There's a lot of backlash this update for very valid reasons. They should roll it back if they still have the capacity to while they work on addressing the big concerns. It'll make people upset sure but the problems with the current build outweigh the "boo hoo but nv"

At the very least, they should have a small patch to include a warning on start-up if they plan on leaving the build in. Pretty much just stick it into the "this game is in beta" warningbox

[wraith robin]

@silent obsidian its so dark because the night vision is on so you need to use it.

[silent obsidian]

even with the night vision I can see fart

[ripe thistle]

It's night. You're not supposed to see everything.

So cheers and good luck.

[silent obsidian]

ok, great argument, you don't have to see everything 😄 just play the game, you can see nothing, but what, you can't connect to the server because it's still full, but what,,,,,, good luck with that approach

[faint folio]

I saw someome suggesting that settings could have a lot of impact on night vision appearance. Maybe try fiddling with graphics a bit?

Also heard (though have no way of verifying) that trying to use gamma with night vision makes things very very dark. Could possibly mess with those settings as well.

It's obviously not going to let you see out to the horizon at night, but... It honestly isn't that bad once it's configured. It has a decent range atm. (Obviously giving people headaches and being a seizure risk is a whole separate issue that needs to be addressed, this is just trying to help with the too dark issue)

Anyways... I hope it helps

[ripe thistle]

Other way around for gamma. The super bright outlines become apparent when using the gamma gimmick. So it's unpleasant to look at for too long. Also the case, though much more bearable, is the Game setting on monitors. Maxes brightness, which is likely what most people use. When paired with gamma capped out? Oof.

But yes. Adjusting your own settings can alleviate the issue. Not get rid of it, but at least help.

[ripe thistle]

"Not supposed to see everything" doesn't translate to seeing nothing. Saying you can't see anything because you can't see everything? Just as much of a leap. Your initial post was just useless. Not an insult but observation.

[faint folio]

Oof yeah. It doesn't cause many issues for me because I basically just always play with default settings on everything, but I could definitely see how if the white lines got boosted in intensity it would be painful to look at for long periods

For me, I see the white outlines fine, but it's more like a pale gray. Not too bright/eye searing

[ripe thistle]

Right. I'm like 90% positive it's just a gamma/brightness issue based on the individual's settings. Which isn't to say it's flawless, but people need to at least figure out the problem on their end. Devs in any game can't know what everyone's settings are.

[faint folio]

@exotic sundial they did it because otherwise (if you are anywhere near deep water) it's a guaranteed kill for anything up to half your deino's weight. The whole point of the mechanic is to drown large prey. I realize it isn't quite realistic, but honestly, there's so much speculation about dinosaurs that deino running out of stamina trying to hold onto a struggling drowning dino is far from the greatest reach the game makes

[tardy talon]

@hasty dagger where did you see the return of glowing eyes confirmed? 👀

[ripe thistle]

Why do people continually suggest daytime vision with a different effect as nightvision? It's completely asinine.

[hoary vine]

The Isle has done a lot of of things I disagree with, but speaking from first hand experience having players constantly on your ass and in your business about updates gets tiring af

not saying we shouldnt criticize the devs about updates or anything, just that when we make a formal complaint it should be where they want it

and not be "THIS SUCKS LOL REKT"

[jagged jewel]

^

criticism should always be constructive, telling what exactly is wrong about something and how you think you can fix it

[crisp topaz]

@tardy talon This type of night vision is almost essentially what I've been asking for to test throughout my feedback. It feels like the visual fidelity needs to be expanded across the entire landscape and use the detail lines to better track movement and environmental features such as hills, etc.

[tardy talon]

It’s… not that though? The system people keep bumping is a concept for a much more atmospheric and naturalistic night vision system. It has a very foggy distance and a dark nearby lurking area.

[tardy talon]

Thanks!

[tardy talon]

Yep, agreed.

[hasty dagger]

np

[crisp topaz]

That photo almost exactly depicts how I feel this iteration of NV should work. It's beautiful 🥲

[ripe thistle]

I'm not getting into this again with you. You flat out don't get the concept of night environments.

[tardy talon]

Mmk bud

I don’t know what’s hard for you to understand about fog offering camouflage for nocturnals

[hoary vine]

again my main issue is that NV causes me physical pain

and I actually cant play at night time, same with my girlfriend

[crisp topaz]

I flat out agree that lighting up the landscape and using detail lines as the main form of detection is the best way to handle this NV. A blend of old school and new school.

[jagged jewel]

Oh I know, i have many friends that relate, i'm agreeing with you

Filipe himself doesn't like the NV

Well, doesn't like nor dislike

[crisp topaz]

Landscape can be seen much further away but dinosaurs on those ridges would be harder to see unless closer up. It's perfect.

[hoary vine]

I think if the dinosaur itself wasnt a black blob, and you had a small circle of light around you where you could see clearly

that would help a lot

[jagged jewel]

Would making the patterns get outlined work?

[hoary vine]

give your eyes something to focus on

[jagged jewel]

i still want the devs to apply wavepoole's idea of making the patterns be visible and outlined, reducing motion blur and allowing us to change the color

[tardy talon]

Tbh I’d really like if you had an option to change the color of the HUD which also synced with the color of the NV

[jagged jewel]

i don't mind the hud color cuz you can always remove that and still play

NV you quite literally cannot disable without losing visibility of everything

[tardy talon]

Agree but it’d look cool to sync it with the NV

[hoary vine]

another animal game I know of has dynamic moon phases that directly affect how bright the night time is

and it makes things a lot more dynamic

full moons are basically just dimmer daytime, with new moons almost requiring nv

always needing nv doesnt sound as fun to me, it seems more fun to shake it up

[jagged jewel]

what game?

[hoary vine]

its a roblox game

[jagged jewel]

still

[crisp topaz]

I think I heard that was a possibility when they do the weather update

[hoary vine]

Cenozoic Survival, its my game 🙊

[jagged jewel]

it was planned for 5.5

but it just never happened

[jagged jewel]

knew you were gonna talk about your game lmao

[hoary vine]

ahahahah

[jagged jewel]

also isn't "a new atmosphere" being worked on for gateway whenever that thing is released?

by new atmosphere i assume it's the improved day and night cycle

[tardy talon]

Yeah gateway will probably have all new lighting

[hoary vine]

but still tho I think that makes it more fun, especially when you have an actual camo system and animals can blend in to the environment, making NV an optional feature to just examine things in closer detail is a lot nicer when the alternative is basic blindness with faint outlines

[jagged jewel]

I agree

[hoary vine]

idk im just tryna think of how to fix it without just complaining

[jagged jewel]

I wouldn't mind the new NV if the dinos had different visibility levels each (dryo, deino having more, etc), or if, until that happens, motion blur was lowered and more of the dinos were outlined

i'm talking crests, patterns, details, etc

[hoary vine]

I think it might help if closer up objects instead of solid black

incorporated a softer grey

with some basic details visible

[jagged jewel]

Indeed

maybe allowing to see colors/a color of your choosing when objects are within a "clear vision" range, that changes from dino species?

[tardy talon]

It’s so odd to me that the dinosaurs don’t have different NV radiuses yet. Isn’t the whole point of NV that some dinosaurs have it better than others at night?

Plus I think it’s basically just changing a number.

[jagged jewel]

it's coming in6.5

[lethal quartz]

I'm just happy we're finally getting customizable eye colors - that was long overdue.

[exotic sundial]

Crocodilians have been unchanged for millions of years so they have been doing the same thing as they are now…which is grab kill and tear up their prey

[lethal quartz]

not that eye color customization was absolutely necessary for the game, but it proves the devs are listening to a picky community lol

[jagged jewel]

Actually not true, prehistoric crocodilians were very diverse and had many different niches, such as filter feeding.

[exotic sundial]

But they still do the same as they have been today

Guess there’s some truth but comparisons can be made from crocs today to deino

[jagged jewel]

That is true

but this is a game and it must be balanced

@sullen brook why would they add sarco???

[exotic sundial]

I get that, but that isn’t balancing for deino, seeing that it’s the apex carni as of yet

[jagged jewel]

it's an apex carni that is specialized in killing things smaller than 4 tons

[exotic sundial]

That doesn’t make sense, tbh
They still went for things bigger then themselves

[cyan flame]

And if we had a better mechanic, this could be a thing. But with current grab and drown with very little actual counterplay, this would be terrible for the bigger things.

[exotic sundial]

Cuz of their jaws, being a ton of pressure

[jagged jewel]

Sure, in real life. If the lunge mechanic was better made, it'd be fine. But allowing deinos to lunge stuff like stegos just lets the players populate the lands freely

[jagged jewel]

Gameplay and balance > realism

[burnt bone]

The reason crocs have survived so long is because their main strategy is literally unfair. Hide where everyone has to go, kill them when they come.

[jagged jewel]

^

this will not work for a game if done 100% realistically

[tidal rose]

you cant swear i think

i had a post shut down because i said pooper but in a bit more vulgar vay

stop, tyrant

Stop using the health issue thing as a weapon

you wont get anywhere

[faint folio]

Sure. But the isle isn't a nature sim, it's a survival game. That means that there can't be any one dinosaur that does everything better than all the others. Tbh I wish lunge was more like "dart forward yank back and release". Then it might be able to work on stegos too.

But deino is already pretty tanky-- got mid to high damage, high HP, and an ability that literally ends the fight in one hit for most small things and usually ends the fight in 1-3 hits for the rest (except stego) assuming you are near water (and you are because deino have 10 minutes of thirst)

[faint folio]

@barren zephyr try these

[obsidian jetty]

Uh...if I have to turn off view bob and motion blur in games to not get dizzy, that's how it is...and I know many people who have to. What kind of an argument is that?

[faint folio]

Also I believe they are considering the night vision issues. Filipe made a comment earlier today that implied they were at least considering various options atm (but he doesn't work with the NV shader directly so he didn't have a lot of details)

[wanton meteor]

im tryna see what yall are seeing to make you guys have migraines and strain your eyes, couldnt imagine fine white lines on a dark background did this much damage

[faint folio]

I'm playing all default settings and I'm fine. But a lot of players increased brightness/contrast, applied gamma, etc prior to NV release, which does have an effect on the appearance of night vision too. If you had previously tinkered with settings, then yes you will need to retinker until you're satisfied

[ripe thistle]

That's unacceptable standards, Iceandi. Nevermind that the night vision was implemented in such a way that gamma scaling can cause eye stress to deter said gamma gimmick. Not officially but that's literally the only time this system is "too bright" or problematic in the least.

It's gotta be exactly what the loudest people want.

[obsidian jetty]

We all hope they fix it. But that's why they need to know what is wrong. Not just "it sucks, remove it". That's not helpful...

[tidal rose]

i mean if you want a refund steam has a policy on them, but i dont think you will convince the devs to change anything by threatening to refund

[ripe thistle]

If you tweaked them to begin with, isn't that the point? And PS: Every game has different 'optimum' graphic settings. Apex is painful with the wrong settings for me. Legacy NV gave me headaches if I didn't mess with my settings. The old (a few months back) graphic settings gave me headaches if my screen was a little too bright or I had bad contrast on my other monitor. It's called personalization/customization, and it exists for this very reason

[tidal rose]

@ripe thistle you talking about the super dark night phase with super bright sky? yeah that gave me major issues too lol

[wanton meteor]

that doesnt make sense? a lot of games off the bat ask you to set the gamma and brightness to make the gaming experience the most comfortable for the person. Having the ability to tweak settings is quite literally essential for a user friendly product. Cant expect everyone to want the same setup

[ripe thistle]

^

@tidal rose Nope. Talking about the daytime before they added night. Some of the god rays and light effects messed with me something fierce.

[agile lark]

<@&401466542140817419>

[ripe thistle]

You don't mess with the game settings. You mess with your monitor brightness. I've mentioned it before but lost in the slog: A lot of people play with their brightness max and saturation super high. the "game" preset on their monitor and such. Not every game's gonna like that. not everyone's eyes are going to. And with the current night vision (still a 'beta' product btw), that's probably just as true.

PS: It's supposed to be harder to see. That's why it's dark. If you don't want night, just say that. Because this is how night should look. Dark, harder to do anything. That's the point. The whole point.

I will, however, agree that plains should be more lit up if the moon is unobscured. Open spaces and moonlight work very well.

[obsidian jetty]

That's what I meant when I said it feels more like echolocation. If the nightvision resembled...dunno moonlight glistening on things or whatnot, you could see less overall but it would be easier.

[ripe thistle]

The whole point is to adjust your brightness settings because not everyone has the same. From GPU's to monitors, everything's going to be a little different. Stop focusing on one thing and think.

Instead of just stomping your feet and pitching an unhelpful fit, mess with things. See if you can figure out the problem as a consumer and then offer feedback. Real feedback. Not whining and berating a system you've yet to actually try to make work.

Which is what most people do, by the way. Not pointing a finger. (the fit pitching)

Probably best to read it all. I wasn't pointing a finger. I was making a point. 🙂

Just referencing what you referenced. But yes, I'm tired of people just throwing tantrums and wanting things changed because they don't like it.

What I would like to ask, is what exactly you're seeing. Because I intentionally tried to make the new NV as painful as possible (having had issues with the game's visual dependency before) and couldn't find a way where this actually bothered. Again, personal. Just like yours. So would you mind giving me more explicit details? Brightness levels, saturation, monitor presets, gamma levels. Even what kind of monitor. These all come into play and devs can't know which ones are causing the issue.

Similar to how some games would not run on certain nVidia GeForce GPU's a couple years ago, and had to get patched up.

I have absolutely no problem trying to help people figure out the problem. It just gets tiresome when all they do is complain (looking at the general feedback should be ample example of that lol)

[wanton meteor]

Thats what im curious too, send a screen shot of what you guys are seeing, cause people out here talking as if theres a strobelight being blasted into their pupils

[ripe thistle]

@tidal rose I absolutely love the idea you petitioned by the way. While I'm not explicitly a fan of the colorized "greyscale" model, it could be a suitable change for people with color and actual photosensitive problems.

[ripe thistle]

Screenshots don't help. It only shows what the game's rendering, not what your monitor is projecting. I tried that yesterday. Bigsad.

[tidal rose]

yeah well, the devs could make presets of darker colors or something perhaps, the point is that eye strain probably happens because black and pure white

[wanton meteor]

the points a lot of people have made suggest their monitor settings are optimal at which point any issue would be from the games rendering no?

[ripe thistle]

Right!

[ripe thistle]

What they consider to be optimal and what actually is are two different things though.

[wanton meteor]

In which case, what can a game dev do to help? lmao

[ripe thistle]

There's half a dozen or more settings that come into play with that. Which is why I asked. Brightness and gamma have similar effects, yeah. But monitor sharpness, presets like Warm, Cool, Game, Cinematic, etc all change things.

[obsidian jetty]

What I noticed, and put in my feedback, is that there's too much going on sometimes when every tiny leaf has an outline the screen is swarming with white and it can be hard to focus

[ripe thistle]

Exactly.

[obsidian jetty]

While that's not much of an issue for me personally, I can see that becoming one when you're more sensitive to stuff like that

[ripe thistle]

That's your prerogative. But it doesn't change the fact that the system itself can be tweaked with proper user feedback and doesn't need to be scrapped for something new. Having settings for players to scale outline sharpness or alter the color to be more agreeable to their eyes, for example.

[faint folio]

Yeah agreed. That's why I like your suggestion so much; it's literally "take the existing night vision and allow the players to change the background/line colors from a pallet". Black and white too much contrast? Pick your contrast level

[wanton meteor]

I just fail to believe such a large portion of the playerbase has an issue with it. I think youre wrong in saying slim amounts of people enjoy it and its just a case of a loud minority atm

[tidal rose]

exactly, i love this night vision

[ripe thistle]

This isn't a "yes or no" situation. Otherwise it'd be problematic to everyone and never would've made it out of the closed testing phase. Clearly plenty of people used it (and we do know for a fact devs have had issues with some harsh feedback from testers) and liked it.

[tidal rose]

so i didnt want to suggest an overhaul, so people can just adjust the levels from color palettes

[ripe thistle]

That's because it's indeed the loudest ones. As they say: The nail that sticks out gets hammered.

[tidal rose]

hope the devs see the idea

[obsidian jetty]

I think the "don't have nights at all" and "if I can't see everything at night it sucks" people kinda abuse the ones with actual health issues rn

[ripe thistle]

Same. That'd be a fantastic change and middle ground. Even if they include the sliders to adjust intensity and definition.

[tidal rose]

but yeah people are being loud and weaponizing the whole eye strain and headache thing. I do believe some do suffer from it but a lot of people are using it as a weapon now just to rip apart the new nv

[ripe thistle]

Absolutely.

[faint folio]

If I have some time I'll try to compile some statistics on the feedback channels this weekend on it just out of curiosity

[ripe thistle]

The problem, Iceandi. Is that most of the people who like it, are probably just keeping quiet and enjoying it while they can.

A poll would be a decent way to see, but also heavily skewed by 'inclusiveness' folks who don't care about whether or not it works well for them.

[wanton meteor]

I agree, which is good because a game having accessibility settings is good, gives them a louder voice... but this voice is also pretty obnoxious and unhelpful at times which works against the cause lol

[obsidian jetty]

Well...it's not a secret that people are a lot more likely to post a feedback at all when they have something to complain about. ^^

[ripe thistle]

Right. People love to complain.

[faint folio]

Well, exactly. Most people are motivated to post reviews when they dislike something. But I thought more along the lines of taking the entirety of the discord pop as the player base (it has its own issues with bias too, but I think it may be closer to full player base than just the feedback posted)

[obsidian jetty]

And "yo, this is cool, I like it" isn't worth mentioning for most people ^^

[ripe thistle]

It just gets drowned out because the people who like something are more inclined to just enjoy it. So yeah, more or less.

[ripe thistle]

That's a whole lot of work to try and sift through the yaysayers and naysayers across the discord. I would not ask that of anyone lol

[tidal rose]

i decided to post a compliment on the nv a while ago and i got sooo disliked lol. figured with all the negativity there needs to be some positive feedback but nope

got swarmed by red x's

[tardy talon]

“It’s only a loud minority who wants the system scrapped”

[ripe thistle]

Yeah. People don't want it because some folks don't like it.

[tardy talon]

It’s almost like the majority of people don’t like this system 🙂

[ripe thistle]

You count a few hundred as the majority...?

Big yikes.

[tardy talon]

When there are no people saying no, I do

If you want the current system to stay, advocate for it

[ripe thistle]

We do. And it gets drowned out by the same faces.

[obsidian jetty]

Plus...is it "this system" or is it nights in general or the fact that nights are dark?

[tardy talon]

Yes because you are the minority

[ripe thistle]

Notice I said "same faces" not "whole server"

A very large number of people*

[tidal rose]

i disagree

[ripe thistle]

Not a large majority.

[tidal rose]

people who like it are just enjoying the game instead of arguing on discord

[wanton meteor]

Bold of you to assume people who play this game all are active within the isle discord lmao

[ripe thistle]

^

[tardy talon]

Then where are your supporters

[faint folio]

Thought I'd look at total people in the discord, and then comments/reactions in the feedback channels. Then do categories based on number of for/against direct feedback, number of for/against total feedback (including reactions), number of repeat feedback (removing duplicate feedback from the same player), etc

[ripe thistle]

If that's your jam, go for it! lol

[tardy talon]

Bold of you to assume the people who don’t talk here like the system

[wanton meteor]

Assumptions go both ways? xD if it was that bad then why are people still actively playing the game

[ripe thistle]

Bold of you to assume that the absence of noise equals an absence of support. THIS is why the loudest people get "listened to". Because people get fed up and give in.

Meanwhile, some of us are just hoppin in when we can to play.

[tardy talon]

You can’t tell if someone likes something or not unless they tell you in some way

[ripe thistle]

Me? I talk because I like proving muppets wrong and have an inability to ignore blatant ignorance or bandwagon riding.

[tardy talon]

So it’s best to go off the people who are actually talking

[ripe thistle]

No, no it is not.

[obsidian jetty]

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter who is the majority. Because if you are talking about "a game everyone can enjoy", which has been what that majority has been claiming to want, you should not just shut down anyone who doesn't share your opinion but try to find a way to make it work for everyone.

[tardy ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpson-nope-im-out-im-backing-out-need-to-go-gif-13496649

[tardy talon]

No one is just shutting you down we’re just saying we don’t like your suggestion lmao

[ripe thistle]

No, you're demanding it be a certain way.

[wanton meteor]

Easy to twist a narrative one way when you dont get both sides lmao. Its like me saying everyone ive talked to in game and asked about NV said they didnt mind/liked it? doesnt mean its flawless does it?

[ripe thistle]

Or not at all.

But you won't. Because again, people would rather enjoy the game.

[tardy talon]

“This person said they don’t like the new night vision… and people… agreed with them??? No, that can’t be… they must be bandwagon riding. They’re DEMANDING it be a way I don’t like!! Noooo!!”

[ripe thistle]

@tardy talon I love when people do that. Shows they don't actually have an argument. Thank you.

[tardy talon]

Ok buddy

[obsidian jetty]

And we'd want you to enjoy the game. That's why we want the night vision system to be adjusted and improved on.

[tardy talon]

Sylas your entire argument is that everyone who is speaking out against the night vision is the loud minority because… uh… reasons

[ripe thistle]

Unacceptable. It must be how they want it. Removed. So night is horrible again. And then revert night. So the gamma gimmick can come back. And then complain that the gamma gimmick is back. It's an endless cycle.

[ripe thistle]

That's not at all my entire argument. And hasn't been in any stage of this discussion.

Oh yes take one thing I said out of context. That's typical./

You two have fun. Hopefully the devs don't listen to one-track complaints with absolutely zero constructive content. I'm out.

[faint folio]

So, there are 97,794 people in this discord. About 1/3 are active right now. 339/30,000 is... A minority. And that is assuming that literally 2/3 of the people in the discord who aren't active right now either don't play the game or don't check the feedback channels.

Don't get me wrong-- I like that suggestion of night vision. But I also don't have major issues with the current night vision-- I like the suggestion because if the devs want to eliminate gamma use they need to make night light enough that players can see enough to at least navigate

[tardy talon]

How many of that 1/3 actually talk? You’d think if people didn’t like the suggestion, they’d do something as simple as reacting with a ❌

[zealous stone]

The average person playing a game aren't going to be active on the discord server, unless its a very small community perhaps.

[tardy talon]

“Zero constructive content” have you… have you read the suggestions?

[wanton meteor]

So then dont use the 'majority hate it' narrative to push a change to a system? xD

[zealous stone]

To be honest the average person might not even care much

Everyone one talking about the NV is either strongly for or against the current system

[tardy talon]

The portion of the community who is active in the feedback channels almost universally agrees with changing the night vision system, how about that.

[zealous stone]

The neutral people shut up

[tardy talon]

This

[proud coral]

I don't strongly disagree with it nor strongly agree with it. I like the concept, I just think it needs some tweaks n such

[lucid harness]

i love all the fan made nv remakes they look super good !!

[wanton meteor]

I dont think people who are for the system are against change to make it more accessible for people who have health issues from it. But the people who are saying to remove it because 'most' people hate it is simply false. Like i said most people ive seen in game either dont care or like it.

[faint folio]

I'll be honest I'm one of the people that either strongly hates it or loves it. I'd be okay if the system changes. I'd also be okay if the system remains the same. I can upvote suggestions that I agree with that would make good alternatives for night vision should the devs want to change it, without saying that the current system is trash

[proud coral]

Yeah the "just scrap the entire thing" feedbacks are just silly

[faint folio]

Exactly

[wanton meteor]

Yeah and thats the point sylas was trying to convey but tronk got ants in his pants and took it the wrong way

[obsidian jetty]

Even if it gets scrapped at some point or this current version gon be used for mercs and dinos getting a different one or whatever. I'm willing to give it a try and see how it can be made to work. Cuz the concept is interesting.

[tardy talon]

I never said this system needs to be scrapped. I’m saying a lot of people think another system would be better. You say everyone you’ve run into either likes it or is neutral about it, but where are they?

[wanton meteor]

playing the game instead of complaining 💀 I also never said YOU said the system needed scrapping... What you did tho is assume the majority hates the system and wants radical change to it.

[faint folio]

Literally me and doctor spoke in this chat saying we were neutral...

[tardy talon]

They said “everyone I’ve run into” lol

[faint folio]

And we're just the ones that are watching this channel right now

[wanton meteor]

I made the point that you can take your personal encounters and what you see and make a narrative that everyone wants something because youve only seen one side to the story... Quite literally proving my point

The fact that youre seeing a lot of activity strongly against the NV doesnt mean EVERYONE is against it and wants it gone

[edgy harbor]

@barren zephyr if you think I'm a "yes man" you are completely and utterly sorely mistaken

[tardy talon]

If there’s so many people who like the system why do we see barely any of them in feedback?

[proud coral]

You are birb 🤓

[edgy harbor]

Yep mhm

[tardy talon]

I never said everyone was against it, that’s misquoting me.

[edgy harbor]

I can confidently say I give more negative feedback than positive.

[wanton meteor]

Because system is good/nice, or i dont really care about it isnt worth typing out in a feedback channel xD

[obsidian jetty]

Because they are playing the game instead of reading the feedback channels?

[tardy talon]

So vote against the suggestions saying to remove it?

[tardy talon]

I think the portion of the community who is active in feedback is fairly representative of the community as a whole. I may be wrong but there’s no way to prove it either way 🙂

[faint folio]

Because people rarely bother to go write reviews when they like the product. It isn't worth the effort. People disproportionately write reviews when they hate something

[tardy talon]

This again

[wanton meteor]

Let me ask you this, how many times have you personally reviewed and item you bought after being satisfied moderately or it doing what you wanted it to? A lot of people will not give feedback on something if theyre neutral, hell even if its good

[tardy talon]

This also might just be coincidence but it does look like the game lost some players since 5.5 (aug. 22)

[faint folio]

And again... If they are happy/satisfied they usually don't even bother opening the feedback channel because that is work

[obsidian jetty]

I will be honest with you, if I am not really interested in the stuff thats going on and just playing a game because I enjoy it, unless something goes wrong I won't even look at the official discord. And I would assume that's true for most people.

[tardy talon]

Why do suggestions like “buff stego” get downvoted then?

Personally I like to scroll through feedback just when I’m bored

[faint folio]

Probably because they're unhappy that stego is (in their opinion) OP, and when they go to drop a negative review they see someone is actually advocating for buffing it and... Yeah

[obsidian jetty]

Or because the people who are active anyway have an opinion on that?

[tardy talon]

So wouldn’t the people who are “active anyway” have an opinion on NV?

[obsidian jetty]

Yes and they may

[faint folio]

The player pop after Aug 22 is still within normal average (look at 18 Aug and 12 Aug in the graph). A little low, but not unusually so... Looks like normal weekday slump/weekend spike pattern

[tardy talon]

Yep, like I said might just be coincidence

[obsidian jetty]

That doesn't mean that they speak for everyone tho

[low canopy]

i check feedback regularly because i'm invested in this project and want to keep up with things that get suggested

[tardy talon]

I think the people who are active in feedback represent the whole community pretty well, but like I said there’s no way to prove that on our own.

[faint folio]

If the update is actually having an impact, I bet it will show up this weekend as the first since update

[jovial hazel]

The feedback channels seem to be more for the community to create discussion than they are to actually inform the devs what the community wants, aside from maybe a few outlying issues. Filipe literally said they can't put much weight to it.
These channels are SO saturated with pointless stuff, random thoughts that pop into people's heads when bored or just salt-fueled rants that it's become pretty tedious to even attempt to keep up. I fear for the sanity of people spending much time reading through them.

[low canopy]

only consistently annoying thing about the feedback here is balance, since most of it is done by people who have close to no match up knowledge

[tardy talon]

Eh, I think that’s a bit unfair. Most feedback is constructive, especially since most of the unconstructive stuff gets deleted by the moderators. And if the devs don’t want to deal with actually reading the feedback, they shouldn’t have these channels at all… don’t give us false hope.

[obsidian jetty]

I agree with that 100%...the sheer amount of people voicing issues or concerns about health issues are definitely a reason to do something. And as QA has already reached out to some to figure out what's going on I guess that's exactly what's happening.

[limber hull]

@tidal rose awesome idea on paper, but that would also mean changing how your animal literally perceives colour. The black of night is unrelated to NV, that's just the game being dark

[tidal rose]

I mean sure but but thats just a middleground

Gameplay above realism

[limber hull]

Issue is

How would that interact with light sources?

[faint folio]

@knotty spindle last time I nested pachy had a hatchling doing exactly that with the bonks. When we asked why he killed his sibling (expecting a "oh it was an accident") I was told he was intentionally doing it so he could have more resources from the parents' diet... Yeah, no thanks 💀 needless to say, that hatchling was removed lol

That hatchling's surviving siblings (those that don't murder each other) got the extra resources lol

[knotty spindle]

yeah as a hatchling those attacks aren't even nessecary, other than killing your own siblings

[faint folio]

Yup. You can't seriously damage anything remotely older

[knotty spindle]

though the utah hatchling's pounce is dangerous for its other hatchlings

if you ever manage to get it off you'll still bleed out

[faint folio]

Yeah

[limber hull]

my god

general feedback is such a dull as of late

Kouji's got a good suggestion with a great visual atmosphere, but it's not great for NV

[severe vigil]

: )

[limber hull]

Also dont bring back legacy NV kthx

[calm granite]

better than current tho

lets slap military nv and call it a day, naw

months for this is embarassing

[severe vigil]

would be better than the one we have right now

[limber hull]

Legacy was literally slapping trailcam NV and calling it a day lol

[calm granite]

that was legacy this is evrima

[limber hull]

The fact that you think it's any different is hysterical

EVRIMA did it better, yes

[calm granite]

its much better than this

[limber hull]

Conceptually, it's better

[calm granite]

no it didnt lol

[limber hull]

Yes it did lmao, it's greatest weakness is implementation, not concept

[severe vigil]

[limber hull]

It has so many advantages over legacy

[calm granite]

like ruining the players eyes

true

[faint folio]

@gritty terrace I agree I don't think they check feedback often, but since it was brought up in filipe's stream he said this earlier today: #isle-discussion message

Makes me think that they're looking into it at least a little

[limber hull]

If it's adjusted and fixed, it won't do that. It really doesn't need to be entirely replaced lmao

[tardy talon]

Tbh I think a heavy, foggy blur is better than just “you can’t see anything outside of this radius”

You might see a vague blob moving in the distance, but you’ve got no idea what that is

Is it a troo? A dryo? An ai animal?

It increases the players paranoia, adding to the horror, while also letting you navigate better.

Of course if it proved to not allow for nocturnals to ambush it could be changed.

[limber hull]

IDK, I just think being able to see a nocturnal from that far away HEAVILY defeats the point

How can you possibly fall for a dilo's hallucinations if you can easily keep track of it

[tardy talon]

Fair

[limber hull]

How would you possibly believe a troodon's mimicry if you can see the troodon?

[near jewel]

how do i get my night vis to work?

[limber hull]

How can you ever get those iconic rex jumpscares from legacy if the rex is a giant moving blob in the distance?

[tardy talon]

You don’t need jumpscares for horror

Honestly I think jumpscares are a bit lazy

[tardy talon]

Press x, if it’s not working delete your save and reload.

[faint folio]

I suppose it depends on how much the blur is. Extreme blur can effectively erase objects completely (especially if it is color filtered so everything is near monochrome-- can't use color to see dinos)

[limber hull]

Wouldn't extreme blur ALSO be bad to look at?

Like IDK, I find forced blur in games kinda annoying and gross

My brain tries too hard to focus on what's in the blur

Ironically, I think the forced blur gives me eyestrain lmao

[tardy talon]

Huh, interesting

It could be made to like

An essentially opaque fog

[limber hull]

Like play In Silence, it's a game where you have a huge blur as the monster, and tell me you don't find it a relief when a thunderstorm has it and makes your vision clear

[limber hull]

That's the thing though, that sounds DOPE for Update 8, but for NV?

[near jewel]

how the heck to do to that?

[tardy talon]

Just as like a replacement for the border of the NV radius, it would looks more natural than just.., stopping

[tardy talon]

If you are experiencing issues with your controls since the latest update (can't move camera, unable to court, etc) then please try wiping your config files in localappdata.

1. If running The Isle, exit the game.
2. Open File Explorer.
3. Click the address bar at the top.
4. Type %localappdata% then press Enter.
5. Find "TheIsle" folder. Open it.
6. Open the "Saved" folder.
7. Delete the "Config" folder. Note: This will reset any of your custom settings to their defaults.
8. Restart the game. The issues should be fixed.

[limber hull]

I really want WEATHER fog, you know, actual fog, but I don't really want NV to also step into that territory

[near jewel]

thanks

[faint folio]

Night vision doesn't have to look realistic or like human tech night vision/trail cams. Also a lot of movies fake night by throwing a blue light filter on the set lights, and people buy it just fine for movies (LotR helms deep battle sequence, anyone?) I think it's possible to imply that it is supposed to be night vision without literally using black

[limber hull]

I'm not saying it should look realistic, my thing is I would much rather see fog integrated into a weather system than the NV

[gritty terrace]

that is better than nothing but we need more official communication rather, he even said he does not do anything involved with night vision and the dev for night vision is yet to be seen on this huge issue

[fierce lintel]

when I was younger I was really confused when the night scenes were blue instead of black

but then I realised it was a design choice

[gritty terrace]

he said there probably will be while the actual night vision dev has been quiet

[faint folio]

Lol yeah. They do that because film is visual, and they can't tell the story they want to tell if the audience literally cannot see

[faint folio]

Why not both?

[faint folio]

Yeah they do. Honestly who knows what they'll do

[gritty terrace]

and thats the issue, if we do not know while such a big issue is happening that is a problem :/

that is pretty much what I am getting at

[surreal sedge]

@distant belfry that suggestion is a bit too bright imo, i think the current one could work if as it got darker the brightness went up a bit but with lower saturation than day to where you can still see in color but everything is dark and somewhat washed out, let people see and dont have the contrast so high but make it more difficult to distinguish colors at night, except things like dilo and troodon they get clear enough vision to where even a pitch black night just looks like dusk to them.

[neon zephyr]

This is pretty crazy;

I appreciate everyone's boosts in concern for photosensitive/epilepsy accessibility. 🧡
(as I'm sure others do too)

I do want to let it be known in case it was missed, that at the very least one of the QA team members reached out to me yesterday to get more info from me about photosensitive modes and changes made in other games. ^^

A small bit of communication; but at least it shows they've seen the reports of it, and are/should be looking into it more. (:

[limber hull]

Honestly that message is great to hear

@hollow vault Beipi would be best suited to deeper waters, not shallows

(also, deinos would struggle to catch the thing because of how damn quick it is in water)

[jagged jewel]

Deep waters are also good because beipi can choose to jump into the stratosphere

i do wonder how high a beipi could theoretically jump given enough momentum

[hollow vault]

Still, I prefer atleast some shallower waters for beipis to perhaps nest and graze

However I do understand

Let’s just hope deinos don’t go in a killing spree

[tardy talon]

The big problem with adding shallow waters is that then everyone goes there to drink and now deinos have no food anymore

But I suspect beipis will hang around southpond a lot

Water is pretty shallow there

[hollow vault]

deinos could technically still go there, just that their position might be exposed?

[proud coral]

Kind of a late response, but that's when you add actual incentives to drinking at specific spots. Such as certain foods being closer by for example 😛

Distance to safer waters relative to where certain creatures are could also help. Do ya really wanna travel all this way to get to clearer/shallower waters and risk starving/dehydrating or missing out on certain foods (when migration comes)? Or would you rather get water here and now even though it's riskier? Up to you.

Right now, there is very little incentive to properly roam around the map. The only thing that kind of helps is diets, and their current iteration does a poor job at it.

Plus.....Spiro is also just a very poorly designed map. Gateway for the win

[strange wave]

@dire bear my friend it has been two days
removing it would do exactly nothing but make nights more unbearable

[molten flame]

X is the key but if you cant get it to work follow the bug instructions about deleting ur config file

[wraith raft]

Is there plans to ever significantly increase the number of players per server?

[gritty terrace]

@barren zephyr when even good PC's struggle to play evrima and the optimization is the worst issue in the game, there is absolutly no reason to do raytracing

hell they don't even know what they are doing lighting wise, they changed it a million times within the past updates

[limber hull]

raytracing is good but not good for now lmao

[gritty terrace]

dude I wouldn't even do raytracing until the game is finished

obviously these devs are incapable of optimizing the game

I have so many friends that have computers that can run legacy and now evrima, like what is the point of having the game at that point

[limber hull]

what?

[gritty terrace]

ik a lot of people who can run legacy but cannot run evrima and I have seen people in feedback before here and there mention it as well

it is a big issue

[zenith cobalt]

^ same tbh

kinda sad i can only play with like 1-2 of my friends and most of the are still on legacy

[limber hull]

It's kind of the problem with these largescale indie projects

Especially with as many moving parts as it has

[gritty terrace]

yeah but optimization should be a priority, people talk about optimization in isle phase 2/3 a LOT

[barren zephyr]

cut them some slack, theres no reason do say they dont know what they are doing, there extremly hard working and trying their best they have to fix hundreds of bugs every patch because its a new game

[limber hull]

It really is impressive how much work they do and how little credit they get for it lmao

[gritty terrace]

this game should not have taken this long to get the basic ass mechanics in and do more realistic expectations

they should have just not released the game till like how it is now

I personally think the only reason why this game does well is because of this damn genre

everything in the genre is just a baron wasteland and this game being the closest to what everyone wants even when this game is bare bones

this game is only alive because of the hype and this community starving to get the best experience out of this genre

the issue is out of this entire genre there isn't much of a bar to begin with

yes, the idea for this game is amazing and interesting but management wise is absolutely abhorrent

[brittle cradle]

@crystal trail i don't have an issue, but is it alright if i ask you a question?

[ripe thistle]

There's not another game out there as well off as The Isle. That's why it's so popular. Visually or mechanically everything is is a far leap.

[gritty terrace]

exactly

what I am saying is that it isn't much of a bar to do so

the devs in the bare minimum should have released the recode like how it was in update 3 or 4

but because dondi doesn't know how to shut his mouth made everyone hyped and then because of that it rushed them to release it with 2 dino's and almost nothing else

[barren zephyr]

wow

if you became a dev you couldnt in a million years do what they have done your talking alot of crap for somoene who knows nothing about developing

[ripe thistle]

Yeah that's just a boatload of arrogance and ignorance right there. Do you actually expect people to take you seriously up on that high horse?

[limber hull]

"Dondi doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut and made everyone hyped"

"Devs never talk to us"

God damn I love this community

[ripe thistle]

Feckin right?

[gritty terrace]

the devs need to stop talking about the future and talk about how development is going and communicate with current issues

that is my thoughts

[barren zephyr]

look on steam

they give updates all the time

[ripe thistle]

They do indeed. Dev blogs and the like every month, sometimes more

[limber hull]

You would rather they go through the boring and tedious checklist that is bugfixing and QA testing than give insight into what's to come

"Hey Islanders, for this Phase 3, we're proud to announce we have fixed that one bug that made FPS slightly lower in the north side of the map! That's all for this week, bye!"

[ripe thistle]

People expect instant results and changes, because they have no idea how much effort actually goes into creating a system.

[gritty terrace]

unironically yes, somewhere around the ball park

[ripe thistle]

Case in point "It's probably easier to start from scratch than add scalars/sliders"

[limber hull]

Bugfixes and optimisation are an expectation, not something to be displayed. The devs don't need to announce that they've fixed a bug, they need to SHOW it. If it isn't fixed, they should work on fixing it.

This also comes off as a very shallow insight to how development works

When we get concept art, that isn't detracting from work on bugs

The concept artist literally just draws concept art

That's it, that's all they do

The programmers keep programming

[gritty terrace]

ik that is fair concept art is fine, I am specifically talking about before evrima came out and dondi boasting about how cool it will be then we got this

[limber hull]

It also is an absolutely TERRIBLE way to retain players

not focusing on the future will DESTROY the playerbase

[gritty terrace]

that is why I said they should not have released everima this early that was their first mistake

[ripe thistle]

Evrima's initial release was actually fantastic. As unpolished as it was, it was still an overall incredible improvement over legacy.

[limber hull]

People want content, regardless of how shitty it is. They will whine and complain that it is shitty, but they'd still prefer it to a pure focus on the current state of the game

[ripe thistle]

Mechanically, visually

[gritty terrace]

it was not better overall, it was a better foundation I agree

[ripe thistle]

But the thing is, if they waited for years, do you know what would've happened? They'd have lost more players. Because unlike AAA titles with the funds to have a near-infinite test group, indie development relies on the community for games like this

Various rig setups to find bugs, since every rig is different. Different regional connections or service providers.

[limber hull]

Imagine being stuck on legacy in its current state for THAT long

Dear God

[ripe thistle]

It's imperative that players start remembering this is an indie group. Very small, very limited funding.

And they've come out with some of the coolest things this side of 2010, imo at least. Despite its flaws.

[gritty terrace]

they do not have very limited funding they have openly stated they get paid very well and they get a lot of money

[limber hull]

Where from

Where do you think that money is coming from

[ripe thistle]

I guarantee they do have limited funding. Just because they're getting paid well doesn't mean they're just rolling in a slush fund.

[gritty terrace]

I am just saying I agree with releasing a half fleshed out game and concept not something that as bare bones as much as it started

[ripe thistle]

I mean that's fair, but we have to admit V3 was getting sooooo tiresome. Dangerously so. Walking over a rock and breaking your leg on Allo, forced to sit for 30mins.

[gritty terrace]

I understand the recode had complications mid way through and there is limited money but the devs definatly could have gone a bit farther personally

[ripe thistle]

I won't say I was thrilled with Evrima's initial release, it was lacking. But for the total recode, I was content to wait and do other things until it reached a stage I was happy with. Saw plenty of others just ripping the devs new ones and it was flat out disappointing

[gritty terrace]

I genuinely did like it when it first released because I can see the foundation and can be grown upon

[ripe thistle]

Right. I was hopeful.

[gritty terrace]

my issue is that it has not been grown upon enough recently

[tardy talon]

These are completely different statements. Devs will often give vague, mysterious hints (dondi is especially guilty of this) which do nothing but build unnecessary hype rather then actually give us information. Eg. posting a screenshot and a gif of a new biome with no context rather then saying “hey guys, we’re working on a new more temperate map! Here are some teaser images!”

Devs talk, sure, but rarely about things that matter. I do appreciate the devblogs, but in between them were more or less in the dark.

[ripe thistle]

That's partly the community's fault. There's a ton of demands for such a small group. And telling the community "no" on any one thing just unleashes hell.

[limber hull]

True lmao

[gritty terrace]

saying nothing and or being cryptid about absolutely everything is how you put a community in the dark in many ways

[tardy talon]

Better to say no now then have everyone shocked when it isn’t in later

[ripe thistle]

Previous interactions with this community from the devs proves otherwise. There were damn near scandals back when they talked about not improving upon V3 further because their focus was on an unreleased product.

[gritty terrace]

the community is like this because of the devs being cryptid and not showing much info, the other way around makes no sense

[ripe thistle]

The community is like this because an indie group can't afford to discipline the toxic ones, and if one can get away with it, so can everyone else.

Or rather, largely can't afford to.

[gritty terrace]

and yes very much so, there is a different between showing how gameplay is going rather than boasting

more dev streams happening is a good start

[ripe thistle]

I have never seen a more noxious community over such small things than I have in The Isle. Not even when Blizzard was losing 40% of their subscribers in a quarter after Retail flopped.

But I've also rarely seen people more excited or passionate about their game of choice.

[tardy talon]

Where are you seeing all this toxicity? Especially in this discord, the most I’ve seen is a few toxic messages which just get deleted anyway.

[gritty terrace]

another issue is like what is happening now with the night vision, the devs NOT communicating is creating confusion and we should not be in the dark, the most we have is filipe saying there might be a hot fix but not sure cuz he doesn't work with night vision

[tardy talon]

Yep.

[gritty terrace]

they haven't even said "yes, this is an issue"

[tardy talon]

There should definitely have been some kind of announcement addressing the massive wave of negative feedback.

[gritty terrace]

filipe didnt even know there was an issue till he streamed and people were saying it in chat, I understand he doesn't work on night vision but it feels like if a major update rolls out someone within the devs would be communicating the feedback

[ripe thistle]

What's to be confused about? It was released what, a week ago? At most? Some folks are having trouble and it's been voiced. Impatience isn't a Dev's problem. They've proven they have a fairly consistent schedule of monthly updates or more.

[gritty terrace]

epilepsy attacks and people in general having headaches and eye strain should not be something that we have to wait till the end of the month to be told there is an issue

[tardy talon]

No one is saying “it should be fixed by now”. All we want is an announcement addressing it

[gritty terrace]

like this is a really big issue and effects the accessibility of the game

[tardy talon]

Fixes can come later, but we shouldn’t be in the dark

[gritty terrace]

what tronk said

[ripe thistle]

So... the assumption is that they aren't working on it, because they haven't said anything?

Even though it's supposedly a huge problem?

[tardy talon]

That’s not what I said at all

[gritty terrace]

?

[ripe thistle]

Why do you need to be told that it's being addressed if it's pretty obvious they need to address it?

[tardy talon]

Because it reassures us they are aware of the issue?

[gritty terrace]

^

[tardy talon]

Punch is literally the PR guy

It’s his job to do this stuff

[ripe thistle]

Why do you need the reassurance when it's been thrown every which way and even have footage of a dev being made aware of it?

[barren zephyr]

well people like you demand to see and play it earlier then they are rushed

[ripe thistle]

Like, I genuinely don't understand why you need hand-held information in a growing process.

[gritty terrace]

?

[tardy talon]

Also, the isle? Consistent updates? Were you even around during the wait for u5?

[gritty terrace]

you realize I started playing this game after the evrima release

[tardy talon]

The fact filipe didn’t even know about it beforehand is what’s worrying

[ripe thistle]

Is Filipe in charge of this branch of development? Or directly involved?

[tardy talon]

The dev team should be communicating, shouldn’t they?

[barren zephyr]

then you have not been around long enough to talk crap about them

[ripe thistle]

The art team isn't going to be told by the coding team that there's a coding problem.

Any more than the coding team is going to be told the art team is having issues figuring out what style to go with

[tardy talon]

They should be lmao

[ripe thistle]

Compartmentalization is how you avoid information clutter.

[tardy talon]

That’s an important part of being a team

[ripe thistle]

You have no idea how this process works, just stop

[tardy talon]

Is knowing what other people are working on

[tardy talon]

No, I know how teamwork works. You need to communicate.

[barren zephyr]

i assume your new to dinosaur survival games @gritty terrace?

[ripe thistle]

Like I said, you have no idea how this process works.

[gritty terrace]

I have been around for a few years now, I'm not new

[barren zephyr]

what kind of games have you played

[gritty terrace]

?

[barren zephyr]

dinosaur survival games

[tardy talon]

Reminding me of “you aren’t in the dev meetings so you can’t criticize magy” lmao.

[ripe thistle]

Totally irrelevant. Bukka's been the more pleasant one to have a conversation with.

[barren zephyr]

you cant just show up to the isle new and talk like that about them

[ripe thistle]

No, but being clueless and pretending to have a clue is just mental

[barren zephyr]

you have no concept how any of it works

its not like fortnite were theres a basic aim to win

[tardy talon]

Mate, if you don’t think teams should communicate to each other what they are working on, you’re gonna have problems in life.

[barren zephyr]

theres new mechanics every update think of it like a web, when 1 mechanic is released so many more new things is done

[ripe thistle]

Who said anything about not communicating what's being worked on?

[barren zephyr]

them new things is the hundreds of bugs they fix

[tardy talon]

“The art team isn’t gonna be told by the coding team that there’s a coding problem.”

[barren zephyr]

not to mention they are humans and dont spend 24/7 on updates and dont have thousands of developers like popular games do

[ripe thistle]

That's correct. That's not a lack of communication. It's avoiding unnecessary information.

[gritty terrace]

? I have been here for several years

[barren zephyr]

no you havent you said

read my other replies before jumping the gun

[tardy talon]

So then what isn’t unnecessary information? Saying “we’re working on this coding problem right now” seems pretty necessary to me.

[ripe thistle]

In what way does that affect what the art team is doing? For example.

Does it matter if the art team knows what the coding team is doing? Does it affect development?

[tardy talon]

Literally yes?

[gritty terrace]

how long has evrima been out? that is how long I have been here

its not like I showed up here and started saying that

[tardy talon]

If the teams don’t know what each other is doing they can’t work together

[barren zephyr]

its still early access so clearly not long

[tardy talon]

That’s how being a team works

[barren zephyr]

well you did

[ripe thistle]

"Literally" no. NOTHING the coding team does affects the art team. Render or modeling? Might.

[barren zephyr]

your litterly comparing the isle, a new upcoming new genre game to multi millionare gaming companies

[gritty terrace]

now I am starting to question how long you have been here cuz everyman has been out for a couple years and you do not even know how long it has even been out

[barren zephyr]

4+ years

way before evrima was released on their normal branch

[tardy talon]

Evrima has been out for 2-ish years. How long have you been around

[barren zephyr]

evrima wasnt always there

[gritty terrace]

yes we know but clearly you do not know when it came out

[barren zephyr]

if you all say you were here long enough evrima wasnt always the branch

[gritty terrace]

ik

[barren zephyr]

no you dont

[gritty terrace]

?

[ripe thistle]

I genuinely do not understand what you consider to be logical here, tronk. You're trying to imply that scripting say... the day/night cycle has an affect on drawing concept art or visa versa?

[barren zephyr]

because you played evrima nothing else

[gritty terrace]

what you mean ik about the legacy branch

[barren zephyr]

yes

[gritty terrace]

I have played plenty of legacy

[barren zephyr]

ok?

[tardy talon]

I’m not gonna keep arguing with you about this if you don’t understand how being a team works. The departments need to communicate with each other about what they are working on so development goes smoothly. IE, “Hey guys, we’re focusing on fixing bugs right now, so don’t send the new troodon animations our way yet because we won’t be able to implement them.”

[barren zephyr]

you just have to argue with everything dont you

if you dont like what they do, leave this server and delete the game

[tardy talon]

Maybe you have a different definition of art then me?

[barren zephyr]

easy as that.

[tardy talon]

Concept art is just a small part of the art team

[barren zephyr]

your point will never be heard because its stupid and false

[gritty terrace]

you are saying I do not know about it, then you are saying I have not played it, you are just trying to find excuses that I am not someone who follows the game when I have been for a long time

[barren zephyr]

i dont find stupid excuses

just tell me your point or delete the isle

[ripe thistle]

I have an actual understanding of it. The "art" team is looking at visual aesthetics, concepts and other non-render related systems. 3D modeling, texture development, engine development. These are all different sections

[barren zephyr]

dont know what your talking about now

[gritty terrace]

jesus I hate arguing with children

[ripe thistle]

The "art" team isn't animating or building models - they're laying the textures for the models.

[barren zephyr]

how about this, you dont argue and go back to being a child yourself

[tardy talon]

3d modeling is art bro. So is texture development.

[barren zephyr]

only little children find stupid excuses and argue like you

appreciate that the isle exists whats ur problem

[gritty terrace]

because it can be better

[barren zephyr]

well how about this then

[tardy talon]

And going back to the original point of filipe should have been informed about NV issues, he’s the one who will eventually have to implement the updated shader yeah?

[barren zephyr]

apply for a dev application ask to join their team

and do it yourself

[gritty terrace]

that is now not it works

[barren zephyr]

yes it is

[tardy talon]

Bro what are you even talking about at this point lmao

[gritty terrace]

idk dude

[ripe thistle]

You know what? I don't even know what's going on here anymore. Just ignore them

[barren zephyr]

hes moaning that "it can be better" stop crying about it

[gritty terrace]

they are just trying to say I am not allowed to give critique

[barren zephyr]

omg your clearly enjoying the isle you just want something to argue about you played it for years which means you enjoy it and thats fine just leave it

[ripe thistle]

If it falls under his purview, yes. But if the fix doesn't require his assistance, then it's an unnecessary distraction.

Teamwork isn't constantly being in eachother's business. Communication doesn't equate to telling everyone on the team every little thing at the earliest possible moment. These things work off trust and understanding between the people you work with. Even in sports, a vast majority of the blatant, intentional communication becomes second nature.

[tardy talon]

No, he’s just being informed about what the other parts of the team are doing. For example in an office environment they have meetings where each department presents what they’ve been working on, even if it doesn’t directly relate to the other departments, because it’s good teamwork.

[ripe thistle]

For example: "Players aren't happy with how this iteration of night's working. Before we throw this information at X, let's see if we can find a fix in our department first."

As opposed to "People don't like this. TELL EVERYONE"

[barren zephyr]

thinking of an argument bukka0?

[ripe thistle]

Go away

[tardy talon]

Yeah, that’s actually a pretty good point.

You won that one 😅

[gritty terrace]

I think both of you are off track at this point, I just do not want the community to be in the dark when there is a large issue and yes, filipe has nothing to do with night vision we are just saying it is concerning that it is one of the big things that is being mentioned in feedback and we have not heard of anything yet

[ripe thistle]

It's important to remember that the various departments are supposed to handle their own crap

[barren zephyr]

never heard someone say that before massive respect to you

[ripe thistle]

Specifically because they're part of a team.

[ripe thistle]

I promise I'm not actually a dick. I've just seen so much crap these last few weeks that it's driving me bonkers

[tardy talon]

Back to the original argument though, there should have been some sort of announcement addressing the negative feedback. It’s just good practice to let the community know “yes, we hear you” instead of radio silence.

[ripe thistle]

We're still kind of on track. The discussion was about information being handed through the various departments and such. Just had to get through the muck lol

[gritty terrace]

reassurance is a big thing tho

that is what I am trying to say

[ripe thistle]

I mean yes, they could. But at the same time, like trusting your teammates, there could be some measure of trust that they are working on it. Y'know? It's only been a week.

[barren zephyr]

bukka0 i need to understand, when you said they can do better, what exactly would you want to do about that situation

[ripe thistle]

I could see them just adding an announcement here, I s'pose. But that doesn't help the players not in discord

[tardy talon]

Devs have broken trust before though. For example, saying on the roadmap “troodon will have mimicry” and now it’s “troodon might have mimicry, we haven’t worked on it or thought about it much yet”

[ripe thistle]

Right. That update's probably a mechanic issue and they bit off more than they could chew

[barren zephyr]

woah thats cool

[gritty terrace]

I also do think there needs to be some form of communication when it comes to feed back too, like yes, there are trolls amd there are people who do not know what you are talking about but that just comes to mnaking a game

[tardy talon]

Yes, I think it’s a weak argument to say the devs shouldn’t look at feedback because some angry people are there.

[ripe thistle]

Well I do feel like they've done that a few times. Could do it more, but officially. Via steam updates, not discord. Discord's just a social hub

[gritty terrace]

the discord is where the feedback is

if this is just a social hub there is no reason to have this feedback channel

[ripe thistle]

Sure, but they can address it via a launcher update so players not using discord can be updated

[barren zephyr]

but the thing is with that is only the people that have problems and bad things about the game in feedback, players who enjoy it and that appretiate it stay quiet so the devs wont know if they are doing good or not

[limber hull]

we may disagree on things but you conceding and respectfully saying someone had a good argument has shot my respect for you way up

i don't see that much around here

[barren zephyr]

me nither

neither*

[ripe thistle]

Tronk and I have beefed it out pretty hard, I'm honestly glad we're having a pleasant conversation

[gritty terrace]

I have actively said to make sure to put positive feedback to the feedback channels and I have made positive feedback before

[barren zephyr]

i didnt see that

[ripe thistle]

But I gotta crash. Have a good night @tardy talon and Bukka!

Oops, at thing.

[gritty terrace]

have a good one

but my thought is when someone is sad, yes they will eventually fix themselves but reassurance helps a LOT

not the best analogy but it makes enough sense

reassurance in general goes a long way

that is all I want, when there is a known issue that everyone is complaining about or a very prominent bug or something like that

and the fact the game is affecting people physically and all we have heard is "it might get a hotfix" by someone who is not involved with the night vision and that it will not be touched till 6.5 by punch when the update first came out

[minor laurel]

If you don't want people to be involved, making a Discord where voices can be heard isn't the best move. I see lots of people complaining on how people are making bad feedbacks and all. And everybody is in their rights.

I mean every people is different and react with different patterns. If there is something positif to see in all the bad written feedbacks that might hurt feelings is that the community of the Isle is very concerned and pro-active for a game she loves. That's it.

Yeah, it is not perfectly said and lots of people are upset about this NV and the drop of quality but it is because they care a lot of the game. And it proves that devs were doing great 'til that update.

And yeah, there are way to say things, to deal with our own emotions but if the world was perfect and everybody knew how to deal with their anger and frustration better it would be called paradise and we were all dead.

The fact that people are where they are with themselves and give what they can to involve themselves into the development is just something you have to keep in mind.

Looking the deep part of the meaning and not the form of it would help to deal with unconfortable feedbacks.

I don't say it is right or wrong, i just say, it can't be controlled by anyone. The only part that can be controlled is ourselves to see the message under all the frustration thing and keep our mind clear to find solutions at our own levels.

[faint folio]

@molten flame juvi carnis get diet from everything (except juvi utahs dont get diet from utahs) because they start with near empty hunger like herbis, but unlike herbis they have to either scavenge or kill something in order to eat. and most babies can't kill anything more dangerous than chickens. so its a compromise so that they can eat whatever they happen to catch. herbi juvis dont have to necessarily fight to get their diet, so they have to get each separately

[rocky aspen]

I agree. Its a inevitable. Just be the bigger, more mature person about it.

[fleet wasp]

Why are the servers starting out at night for resets?

[thorny crag]

Why have 9 feedback channels?

[obsidian jetty]

who...said...they didn't want people to be involved? This whole thing escalated quickly...it literally went from one person (who isn't even PR) not being aware of what was in this channel via "I heard someone said they heard..." to "you should just delete the discord" within...a day? 2? Like...what? I wouldn't be surprised if they only did streams without comment from now on, if at all...maybe this is a part of the problem...?

[minor laurel]

I talk about players arguing on each others mostly. People are frustrated from the long time of development and the impression they are not heard and valued as players that's all. However, i agree that it unfortunately escalated quickly.

[obsidian jetty]

Yeah and when that happens every time you say something...would you want to? I agree that the absolute silence is maybe not perfect, but I can kinda understand it seeing this ^^

[minor laurel]

If you can't deal with it as a developper i think it is better to delete those feedbacks channels and make another system like votes for examples which are oriented questions. It may help. Another example would be to actually have a special dev emoticon to just show people that "it's good, we read it." And a last one would be to hire a community manager that can collect infos from players, organise and compile it and make a feedback to the devs with stats, create a link with the community and communicate actively which is in my opinion the best option for both parts

I agree of course that it is actually exhausting for them but as said, you can't control that better that that is actually is so. I don't think losing energy and time fighting it is relevant

[dusk meteor]

Well, ya. These kinds of things escalate and if they couldn't see it coming from the first big red flags in feedback idk where they were looking. I would like to say I support the devs, but they're currently making a lot of wrong moves which are only making the situation worse. Inaction by itself is an action where the situation is calling for it.
There are kids on the discord who don't know any better.
There are people who are overly invested, people who may get fixations on topics.
There are people who are being affected and have a good reason to be angry - it isn't just "boo hoo i don't like nv" it's "nv is hurting me and I need to stop playing"

Doing nothing and saying nothing and addressing nothing is exactly the wrong move to make in this situation because it is serious, not just people not liking something any more. The devs have the ability to act and speak quickly if they need to, so even if you they doing something they will look like they aren't. And even if you're doing something you have chosen not to address the problem even in the smallest way (adding a text warning). Moreover, they're a small team. If someone didn't know about the fallout at this point, I'd be surprised, but because of the whoever is making the decision not to act immediately on the public branch everyone is getting thrown under the bus. The longer they leave it, the more it illustrates that they just don't know what to do. They've gotten themselves into a mess they really weren't prepared for, and almost never are.

P.S. I'm fine with most things they do beyond little nitpicks i don't really care about. I'm fine with NV as a concept. I think it's got core issues but I can largely play. It does make me sick though, so tbh I spend most of the night afk on rocks or on servers that just skip night now.

[neon zephyr]

I know it's not anything close to official response to the community from the devs/staff;
(I can agree it'd be a good thing for them to start doing; at the very least on important matters like this with tons of reports on the same thing)

But wanted to say again that a member of the QA team reached out to me for more information regarding the photosensitive mode and other changes made in games I play; so it does seem they are looking into it.

[cyan quarry]

You want things to move, don't play the game anymore. Devs don't care, so why should we care

[limber hull]

excellent mindset

[dusk meteor]

I don't thin the devs don't care, they recoded just to make a better product. However, their PR is incredibly bad

[limber hull]

have fun not playing i guess

[gritty terrace]

I did see that, so did they say they were actually going to do one or just a possibility?

[neon zephyr]

Mmm; technically all they did was ask me about it; and then said thanks for the info - sent them a screenshot of Lost Ark's photosensitive mode; which you can see has very clear changes in how it looks.

But, in my eyes, even that small interaction is still better than literally nothing.

[gritty terrace]

That is fair

[dusk meteor]

Yeah. It's likely that the QA member will feed back as a trusted member but it still leaves everything very open and unspoken for. They acted on their own accord it looked like

[gritty terrace]

My big issue is optimization is already making the accessibility for the game difficult already and this is going to make it worse

[dusk meteor]

more than being a voice of the development

[obsidian jetty]

I am not talking about people not being allowed to say anything, I am not talking about people not being allowed to be angry about things, I am talking about them frequently being insulted, threatened, belittled, berated, having things they actually do say taken out of context just to slap them around for days and then having people go "well it's their own fault, they just have to deal with it"...that kinda doesn't feel right to me.