Basically
#0.12 ore generation feedback
acoustic reef
what's the river biome issue?
sterile hornet
I thought there was an issue with a 1.21 tfc river biome not being included in the worldgen
last current
halite seems really weirdly low-density in 0.12.1.. i'm still in the steam era but i can't find any more than 100 total ore in a sylvite/halite vein with a blue steel propick, whereas sylvite/spodumeme will easily report back ~500 ore
wait no i was just finding surface veins more often while i was prospecting along the shore i think
found the deep one. salt time
alpine igloo
I thought there was an issue with a 1.21 tfc river biome not being included in t...
it wasn't included in the water wheel whitelist
alpine igloo
halite seems really weirdly low-density in 0.12.1.. i'm still in the steam era b...
if you ever need a ton of salt, there's salt flats biomes in dry areas
alpine igloo
desert levels
keen shell
if you ever need a ton of salt, there's salt flats biomes in dry areas
and sea water?
alpine igloo
and sea water?
yeah but you can't really get huge amounts of salt out of that until lv
alpine igloo
yep just slow and very manual
alpine igloo
even the firepit I think
keen shell
haven't played stone age for ages
safe ferry
so spawning on a conglomerate + diorite combo skewed it a bit but imo nickel is fine with how much you need for MV + HV crafting (circled areas are "normal" veins whereas uncircled are deep veins
acoustic reef
damn
sterile hornet
so spawning on a conglomerate + diorite combo skewed it a bit but imo nickel is ...
are they clustered in the diorite/conglomerate?
safe ferry
they're pretty separate veins that just happened to spawn like that, it spawned in conglomerate which got cut off around y=40, then a layer of slate generated from y=40 to y-13, then finally a layer of diorite generated which allowed for the big deep vein to generate below it
sterile hornet
I was wondering
safe ferry
here's a better example, top right one is a deep vein, bottom right is a surface vein
sterile hornet
The deep veins really seem like the way to go
I hate going for the surface veins cause they have shit density
safe ferry
normal veins are still pretty nice
but yeah, you aren't guaranteed to find tons of nickel (this is also all conglomerate)
acoustic reef
The deep veins really seem like the way to go
Deep veins are only for post LV
You donāt need them before
Surface veins are really good until you hit like ULV/LV
sterile hornet
Deep veins are only for post LV
surface veins are annoying to support when theyre close to the surface so I was looking for alternatives
sterile hornet
caves mostly
acoustic reef
Or dig everything 
sterile hornet
I can support the caves easier at depth\
acoustic reef
Unsure I understand why but you do you!
safe ferry
tbh mining stuff on the surface is more annoying with dirt falling on your head but at least the risk of causing cave-ins and irreversible ruining a mine as a result is basically 0
so I think it's a fine change for new players, cave-ins are definitely the worst part of being a TFC newbie
sterile hornet
Unsure I understand why but you do you!
if theres a cave in at depth theres less chance of it affecting anything on the surface
cause id rather not leave instant death pits lying around
acoustic reef
Yeah if you fuck up I guess
sterile hornet
Yeah if you fuck up I guess
I fuck up a lot
safe ferry
understandable lol
I'm always super careful and instantly go into panic mode as soon as I see the scary red text
acoustic reef
Dig 4 blocks
Put a support
Dig 4 blocks
Put a support
Invest into concrete support
Stop worrying
Is basically how I do it lol
split pendant
that's kinda backwards tho, surface veins are going to be easier to stabilize and recover from a cave in
before rebar/concrete supports it can be nearly impossible, or entirely impossible to recover from a collapse
also, supports prevent gravity affected blocks like dirt from falling too.
urban dove
tbh mining stuff on the surface is more annoying with dirt falling on your head ...
if its that close to dirt layer, just quarry mine
safe ferry
oh ya I always mine out an area then dig top down but thinking of a new player not knowing how supports work and stuff
acoustic reef
yeah It's much easier to mine dirt to save your mine
that cobblestone
also some people likes the idea of open air mines so
safe ferry
overall I'd say sphalerite is in a pretty fine spot, I'd slightly increase the size of the sphalerite/galena vein to make it more-in line with other normal veins though.
bismuth is also pretty fine, you don't even need to go find a mountain for that exclusive vein since plains, hills, and plateaus cover basically everywhere that isn't the ocean.
already said my piece on garnierite, there's a lot of it but you really need a lot of it.
imo tin was nerfed a little too hard as there are only 2.5 options for early game tin now: mountains, beaches, and choosing the desert spawn option, everything else is a deep vein.
acoustic reef
Eh I feel like tin being mountain AND beaches make it so you can find tin pretty easily
it may not be the first one you make though
which was kinda the plan
safe ferry
fair enough
atm bismuth bronze seems to be the easiest followed by regular then black bronze
mainly because gold is absent from sedimentary rocks
never thought I'd see the day where silver was more available than gold lol
if you do get an igneous rock spawn I could see black bronze being a bit better though, would have to make a few more worlds to see thogh
acoustic reef
yeah most of the time you spawn in sedimentary
though because there is so many mountains and volcans now it can happen more often I feel to spawn in gold
safe ferry
alternatively you can blast a hole into the beneath and grab some gold there but I feel like that's more effort than just finding one of the other bronzes
acoustic reef
def
wanton raptor
something i wonder. is 0.12 going to leave alpha after the ore generation and world gen stuff is done being tweaked?
not like, as the only criteria, but its gonna stay alpha until these are solidified
alpine igloo
something i wonder. is 0.12 going to leave alpha after the ore generation and wo...
we're probably gonna leave it as an alpha until the beneath is done? which I'll start doing next
wanton raptor
oh, i didnt know that was an immediate plan.
hollow zodiac
can't wait for an alpha merge with oregen fix and worldgen fix
safe ferry
what are the plans for the beneath rework? possibly turning it into the land of sulfides?
alpine igloo
what are the plans for the beneath rework? possibly turning it into the land of ...
long beneath
more varied rock too
safe ferry
o also just reworking the whole dimension too, I see o.o
as long as my kaolin + graphite survives I'll be fine tbh, I always like getting a crucible early cause alloying in a vessel is a pita lol
alpine igloo
from 6 biomes into uhhh maybe 12
oh don't worry the kaolin will be harder š can't just land directly on it 5 secs after dropping in lol
safe ferry
fair enough, finding an ash forest was always the hard part anyway
acoustic reef
Finding Graphite and Kaolin is also easy on Earth!
Especially with the early on Rowboat now
safe ferry
oh yeah I think I remember seeing graphite in volcanos now?
alpine igloo
tfg devs work on anything except venus challenge
safe ferry
you're just doing all the sidequests so you're sufficiently leveled before the next boss is all
wanton raptor
long beneath
long beneath? what...?
hardy timber
grizzled mica
Especially with the early on Rowboat now
Wait, did you tweak the rowboat too?
Not that it mattered to me, I crossed the ocean on a dugout canoe
wanton raptor
ohhh.
normal tree
what do you need stibnite for
opal bridge
Doesn't Tetrahedrite have the stuff for battery alloy too?
Or am I thinking of something else
alpine igloo
I'd say "tetrahedrite is in the same vein as stibnite" but idk what's where any more lol
acoustic reef
Antimony is part of the ore processing of Raelgar and Tetrahedryte yes
acoustic reef
it's basically everywhere
opal bridge
Has there been any consideration of adding more methods to obtain ores like Boron? IIRC the only option currently is Borax, and the yields from that aren't fantastic. Though as of now, boron has only a handful of uses, it would be nice to have some variety.
fallow thunder
Although boron is a relatively rare element in the Earth's crust, representing only 0.001% of the crust mass, it can be highly concentrated by the action of water, in which many borates are soluble. It is found naturally combined in compounds such as borax and boric acid (sometimes found in volcanic spring waters).
Could add a way from spring water
Since there is spring water bedrock veins to tap
acoustic reef
Only if we remove it from the Aqueous Accumulator
opal bridge
I was gonna mention that there's some other common boron-containing minerals like Ulexite and Colemanite, though I believe the latter forms differently than the former
And honestly, yeah, being able to tap and refine spring water or some deep-derivative of it would be a nice way to obtain stuff like that.
Only as infinite as your bedrock vein is, and taking some effort to extract in meaningful quantities from the water, but well worth doing so.
alpine igloo
Only if we remove it from the Aqueous Accumulator
sounds good to me
I don't think it's infinite in-world either?
fallow thunder
Only as infinite as your bedrock vein is, and taking some effort to extract in m...
Yeah I like this idea, optional way to do things that could be a neat little process
acoustic reef
I don't think it's infinite in-world either?
apparently yes but we can change it
opal bridge
Yeah I like this idea, optional way to do things that could be a neat little pro...
Kind of a maple syrup thing, a significant volume must be reduced to obtain your desired product
safe ferry
isn't spring water required for all the medicines though?
opal bridge
It's still found in the world, but the proposition would simply prevent them from being infinite with accumulators and such
acoustic reef
I don't think it's infinite in-world either?
I mean the fluid vein is infinite right now
fallow thunder
@acoustic reef @alpine igloo do either of you remember if we have spring water spouts. Could be a good way of having plenty of spring water available early on for stuff
acoustic reef
<@100017347233857536> <@545532674828271616> do either of you remember if we have...
There is the pools?
fallow thunder
I mean pools only have like 20 blocks worth. But a spout could have hundreds
And I mean water geysers are a real thing
alpine igloo
<@100017347233857536> <@545532674828271616> do either of you remember if we have...
spouts, no, just the normal tfc springs
I was actually thinking of having a hydrothermal biome in the beneath with some deeper pools
opal bridge
Could also let the liquid be "infinite" but not infinitely pumpable?
So the only way to "infinite" without tapping a vein would be some super jank bucketing setup that would be more effort than it's worth.
alpine igloo
Could also let the liquid be "infinite" but not infinitely pumpable?
thankfully the create hose pulley thing is just a tag
acoustic reef
The create pump just pump the block in front of it
So you have no way to stop it from recreating one if itās jnfinite
safe ferry
idk how annoying it would to implement but adding some "borax line" like bauxite/platinum/etc where you dissolve purified borax ore in some spring water mix for some better yields would be fine enough tbh
acoustic reef
Itās not hard to implement the hard part is making it interesting and not just new materials without other usages
opal bridge
Having another processing line is a bit much, what I and Gamestar suggested was more along the lines of having alternative methods to obtain boron
acoustic reef
Like the gem slurry works for all the gems
safe ferry
fair enough
acoustic reef
To be fair though you donāt need a lot of boron in TFG as it is
Where is it needed except AE2 ?
safe ferry
MV superconductors and rene-41 ingots
opal bridge
Isn't Boric Acid used in some recipes? I forget
acoustic reef
MV superconductors and rene-41 ingots
RenƩ 42 lacks more usage
Which will hopefully be fix later down the line
safe ferry
kanthal coils are pretty important tbf
fallow thunder
Yeah Iām thatās why I think adding a way to get boron outside of borax, and it can be a bit more complex, is a good idea
And more complex as in like 1-2 steps
acoustic reef
kanthal coils are pretty important tbf
Not enough so boron is hard to get
I think I use a shit ton of boron for the small fission reactor
But itās a power gen no one made yet
Venus will solve that
fallow thunder
Not enough so boron is hard to get
I just think having options alleviates what could feel like forcing down a path, but idk
opal bridge
Tap spring water, then demineralize it and boil off the excess water in order to recover things like Borax or other such Boron-containing minerals, or whatever else might be found in spring water
acoustic reef
I just think having options alleviates what could feel like forcing down a path,...
Im not against just pointing that right now you never lack Boron
fallow thunder
That is fair
alpine igloo
reminds me a little bit of when I was designing the new recipe for cupronickel coils, I found out that a lot of magnesium irl is just from sea water
acoustic reef
Stop the infinites 
safe ferry
regardless I do 100% agree adding more options for boron is a good idea, I'm just kinda sad about more stuff getting removed from the aqueous accumulator tbh
alpine igloo
I mean we can always just make another fluid and shove it in the beneath
acoustic reef
We should put adding any kind of infinite on hiatus until Venus is out
alpine igloo
kjs-tfc even comes with a builder to make a fluid similar to spring water where it emits particles and heals you
acoustic reef
As we mostly are blind about resources until Venus is out
fallow thunder
We should put adding any kind of infinite on hiatus until Venus is out
Year long hiatus 
acoustic reef
probably
hexed shard
Nono, it'll be released tomorrow!
opal bridge
keen shell
Nono, it'll be released tomorrow!
dense basin
what is considered a volcanic biome for sulfur?
sterile hornet
acoustic reef
what is considered a volcanic biome for sulfur?
all of them have volcanic in their names
except
canyons
i think
but it will be made better with next update
sorry for the confusion
versed walrus
the best of them is probably the shield volcanoes
i've never found one without graphite under it
sterile hornet
the best of them is probably the shield volcanoes
the shield volcanoes look awesome
very useful as well
wary forum
hollow zodiac
anything major to look for in .12.3? is it up to date with the ore changes or is it still on another branch?
acoustic reef
No changes since latest release
versed walrus
Are there likely to be more world Gen changes?
alpine igloo
yes, tfc isn't finished with the worldgen yet and we'll be backporting it
there's a lot more cool stuff on the way!
random pendant
started a new world for 0.12.3, I think Surface tin should not only be in Mountain Biomes. Maybe add them also in Highlands or Rolling Hills.
random pendant
or add it to some Canyons. yeah, Its just a pitty that depending on the world gen, you wont see much there in the Mountains, for example on my world, there are Canyons where Mountains used to be in the old world gen
alpine igloo
you don't need any tin until steam age so it's ok
random pendant
has anyone tested Kaolin Clay if it spawns?
alpine igloo
yes
random pendant
myabe I am just extremely unlucky but I am in a massive old mountain area and I just do not see any blood lillies
alpine igloo
hmm
sterile hornet
is genviewer working again
random pendant
not ingame, only on preview before creating the world
alpine igloo
interesting
I wouldn't trust this kaolin screen because it's looking at the old biomes
random pendant
I actually tested it, the screen was accurate
I found Kaolin at those spots
and nothing in the empty spots even the Old Mountains with 100 y
it was just an unlucky world gen
keen shell
Oh yea there seems to be a chance of blood lilys generating without kaolin being below it
Had to go into creative to double check and yeah they can sometimes generate without kaolin
Which is super annoying
keen shell
try digging deeper
went down to 0
hell -10
btw book needs to be updated with the new biome entries, cause it only mentions the kask variant ones or whatever
the jagged biome ones
alpine igloo
post the seed and coords then
keen shell
post the seed and coords then
double checked and there is some, but its like 7 blocks of it lmao
alpine igloo
unlucky
keen shell
thats normal then?
acoustic reef
Can Blood Lily spawns if there is no kaolin under it? Iām pretty sure it needs at least 1 block of it
alpine igloo
it uses the same system as ore veins and indicators
random pendant
damn, so the Rich Coal is completely gone.. RIP Rich Coal!
distant jasper
hm i've noticed that galena/silver veins basically spawns together/inside of kyanite/mica, this doesn't look normal even for ore veins that spawn in the same rock type
this isn't the first
theres no such vein as well in emi
acoustic reef
its often because they are on top of each other
there is a weird thing making the veins more often that not spawning on top of each other
I don't mind that much
distant jasper
okay so not concerning then, got it
alpine igloo
if the veins have exactly the same stats, I wonder if that's causing it? like they've got the same seed so the same locations
changing the rarity up or down by 1 should fix that
distant jasper
i checked it with freecam and like
i saw galena and kyanite right next to each other
so thats why i brought it up
people might think its a new vein
alpine igloo
some people in chat-en say that the surface bismuth vein isn't appearing at all
acoustic reef
Is it Pastulio or some other people?
alpine igloo
yes lol, false alarm
though we should probably do something about these ores not generating in old worldgen too
acoustic reef
yeah but that's a bother to do
random pendant
haha, well, at least I know it is not just me but it is the old world gen. On my private server (with the new world gen) Bismuth is not an issue š
acoustic reef
make sense
random pendant
I should have mentioned this earlier, sorry.
acoustic reef
well I wouldn't have expect to look at the official server as the guilty party lol
You saved players from one more day of progress that would be wipe
random pendant
I was looking at the sea and I was wondering why dont I see any oil in the sea because I am at the correct temp and rain limit, so it should be there
at least we know now whats the problem, haha
acoustic reef
Yeah itās a deep vein
distant jasper
distant jasper
Yeah itās a deep vein
distant jasper
is it supposed to be that dense
distant jasper
i was thinking like
i should be close to finishing this right
but then i checked
acoustic reef
Imagine that I reduced the size and density of every veins
from 0.11
it was that crazy lol
acoustic reef
oh yeah it's just random
I mean I wanted to make them smaller
but the pressure on me was too big ahah
I still believe I should have nerf them even more but
it is what it is
distant jasper
i think i just got used to the surface veins lol
ok this is fine htne 
don't change it im happy
i wanna mine it all manually but im not finishing it anytime soon if im stuck with a mining hammer lmao
distant jasper
that but looking downwards
alpine igloo
I'm more concerned with them not being spread out as randomly lol
wanton raptor
god that reminds me how in gravitas2 you could theoretically make oresight potions which are xray for specific materials (or get them from that one weird grave mod that adds too much stuff and its magic scrolls)
and the oresight used colored fullbright outlines on each ore
so with shaders on it just became nuclearly bright
acoustic reef
Ahah thats such a cool idea!
unreal radish
so with shaders on it just became nuclearly bright
Uranium ore anyone? 
compact tendon
Regarding Graphite: if I remember right in 12.0 it spawned only in volcanic biomes, but in every king of rock. What was the rationale in making it rock type restricted instead like in much older versions? The volcanic restriction gave a fairly good indicator without using the map, since if you saw a volcano, you knew it could spawn. However you can't tell what kind of rock spawns at 0/-50 without digging a shaft or cheesing it with cave mode map (any pink rock is granite and can spawn graphite). I'm not even sure how it encourages caving, but maybe that's a me problem.
P.S.: That graphite quest still says it spawns in every kind of rock.
acoustic reef
Most if not every volcano is Intrusive
else intrusive is a very common rock at that depth
Basically at that depth it's either metamorphic or intrusive
and you can know which rock is it
compact tendon
might be just my bad luck. I had Dolomite and Marble at -25 (volcanic oceanic mountain)
alpine igloo
volcanoes are extrusive, tom :p
extrusive = the lava cooled on the surface
intrusive = the lava cooled underground
I remember it like exterior/interior
but also mountains can have intrusive since it's where that deep underground rock gets pushed up by plate tectonics
random pendant
Would be cool to have earth quakes and sinkholes.
South Africa, Pretoria Centurion area has a problem with sinkholes because a city is built over dolomite geology
alpine igloo
I don't want to add anything that will destroy stuff players built
but tfc is adding things like rift valleys and mid ocean ridges and other tectonic geology features to their worldgen
copper moss
I just learned those today lol
hollow zodiac
I don't want to add anything that will destroy stuff players built
I agree, natural disasters you have no control over aren't fun, like tornadoes and stuff
compact tendon
After trying in vain to locate graphite I gave in and spawned in a LuV prospector to check if I was just unlucky.
In conclusion: damn it's rare! I went around all the volcanic biomes nearby and only found a single deposit of 51 graphite in the ocean. As it stands I'll definetly go to the beneath for graphite (even if I can't find any there ~6 graphite blazes drop enough for the blast furnace).
acoustic reef
got really unlucky I guess
You had metamorphic volcano
I could honestly add all rock layers type for the volcanic veins
compact tendon
I did locate a large volcanic vein about 1500 blocks away, it's impressively large but it early on it's a huge overkill. Right now I think volcanic biomes have about twice the chance of finding graphite since the huge size doesn't help much with finding them.