0.12 ore generation feedback

[alpine igloo]

I'd like for medical conditions to persist through death too, at least a % of them

like enough that you actually have to care about them but not enough that you get stuck in a death loop

[sudden falcon]

Not b4 there is a way to get rid of them plz, I got shining upgrade (uranium) and couldn't get rid of it

[alpine igloo]

cuz rn it's easier to just die instead of doing medicine

[unreal radish]

I support MAGA (Make Asbestos Great Again)

[sudden falcon]

Also I would love to know what the consecuences of the effects

[alpine igloo]

write us a new entry for the field guide :p

[unreal radish]

Don't know how to code :p

[ivory stump]

Well to be fair, it's also a long way until you can make medicine

[unreal radish]

Not really, you only need rosin or wax

[alpine igloo]

it's just a json file

[alpine igloo]

shows how underused the medicines are lol

they're really slept on

[unreal radish]

Hmm

Maybe possible

[alpine igloo]

https://vazkiimods.github.io/Patchouli/docs/patchouli-basics/getting-started

[urban dove]

the ones that give status effects are so massively outscaled by vintage alcohol

also salves look the most primitive in the texture but are the most advanced to make? But pills you can make in the copper age?

[alpine igloo]

that one's on redeix lol

maybe the medicines need to be buffed more 😂

[torpid delta]

yeah but it doesnt collapse on them

[noble cobalt]

how to get rid of [random status effect name]
die

[cobalt garnet]

update today?

[hexed shard]

If you are going to implement this, it'd probably be good to make them significantly less hazardous then the tiny dusts. As it is, toxicity accumulates waaay too quickly, so it's really easy to miss

The fact that it won't be a rare event will make it easier, though, since it's something you go into the mine knowing you'll have to deal with rather then something that happens rarely

[alpine igloo]

most hazards don't do anything until you've got like, a dozen minutes of it

[hexed shard]

It takes a few seconds to acquire a minute, though

Like, I remember just transferring a dust from one container to another, having a single tiny dust for a few seconds in my inventory, and it accumulated a minute or two of toxicity

[alpine igloo]

but yeah if we add that then ofc we'll tweak the numbers to make it good

[exotic sapphire]

I've done a quick test with these files

If I am not wrong this was in a highlands type biome so finding tin should be easy

Tons of tin on the beach

[acoustic reef]

Yeah I added tin on the beaches!

It’s also way more common in mountains

And you can find it rarely in normal veins

Bismuth is also a bit everywhere

[exotic sapphire]

Does realgar also come with bismuth?

[acoustic reef]

No but there is so many different veins

I encountered a lot of mixing veins

[exotic sapphire]

true that

The spikes are a bit much, no?

[alpine igloo]

that's normal tfc

[exotic sapphire]

This texture feels out of place. Most likely a tfc problem too

[acoustic reef]

Yeah I think we had that discussion but it’s TFC yeah

Also it may be more for #1488096218654572594

[exotic sapphire]

oh right, sorry

[alpine igloo]

this is actually the lava spout from a volcano right above you

if you break the magma blocks you'll see lava

[exotic sapphire]

Ohh, thats neat

[hollow zodiac]

@acoustic reef i know it's a lot to catch up, just wanted to not miss this (particularly sphalerite and the lead silver question)

[acoustic reef]

I made a note yeah!

Thank you all for testing

I just need to get out of bed and wrap up the new ore gen

[torpid delta]

Yeah

[sudden falcon]

May destiny bless your soul

[acoustic reef]

lol no fucking wonder there is no zinc outside of surface veins

I forgot to add more

[digital gate]

assumed it was a mistake, only surface zinc would be really weird

[hollow zodiac]

yup we need both a normal and deep vein, also possibly a deep lead/silver vein

[pulsar zephyr]

How accessible are bombs with the new changes? I'm assuming the alternative to going down the caves is "blowing a massive hole into the ground and using concrete horizontal wood vertical supports to start excavating from there" (or, you know, more bombs)

would be fun to do some VS-style blast mining

[alpine igloo]

I did try to make sure saltpeter is available

tfc has powder kegs, gt has powder barrels

[acoustic reef]

it should be quite common

[pearl rose]

I haven’t read too many of the other posts yet, but since mining is one of my favorite parts of this pack, I wanted to share a few thoughts.

• Forcing players into caves isn’t a bad idea

I actually like having to work around the support system, and digging straight down through solid rock for hours gets old fast after the 40th time. So caves, in my opinion, are a good change. What I don’t love is how "rare" surface veins are. Early game ends up feeling pretty dull when you’re just wandering around “tap tap tapping” with the prospector pick to find anything better, especially since surface veins often only have a pretty small hull.

• Late‑game ores being less common on the surface is great

I’m not a fan of marking every surface vein on my map, so this change helps. But with the new surface ore distribution, you still end up with a ton of markers for the same few ores: copper, zinc, tin, iron, and so on.

• Early‑game mining kind of sucks

With caves becoming the new “meta,” you end up with these awkward, dangerous little mines just to grab a few extra ores. It’s annoying, though you could argue that once you get reinforced concrete or even just rebar, the problem mostly disappears.

• What I do like

Huge deep veins are awesome, and I really appreciate that part of the update. Most of the issues I have are strictly early‑game problems. Once you’re past that stage, things feel fine. The LV prospector helps a lot, and concrete support fixes most of the problem.

If I had one suggestion, it would be to adjust surface veins, so they’re either more abundant for certain ores or just lower‑quality overall (like instead of copper ore, the stuff that melts into less, forgot the name), less dense, fewer raw blocks, etc. That would make deep veins more rewarding and make caves feel like a more natural part of progression. One good comment I saw, “The starting ores needed for progression have to at least be accessible within a reasonable distance, as travel options aren't great early,” which pretty much sums up my problems

I also haven’t played the alpha all too much, so take what I say with a grain of salt; these issues could already be fixed, and I wouldn’t know lol.

[hollow zodiac]

which version are you on? .12 or the experimental tom posted?

[acoustic reef]

the biggest issue was that the normal veins that you should look for during very early game

weren't spawning

[acoustic reef]

yeah that would help to know that

[pearl rose]

I think I was on the regular one lol, that would explain some stuff since I couldn't find JACK

I also just at least in this am talking more in general, I just wanted to say I enjoy having to explore caves and whatnot but I also get the hate for that kind of stuff

[hollow zodiac]

@pearl rose look from here down for the .12.1 experimental

[pearl rose]

ah okay, I was using that one, idk why I thought I wasn't im dumb lol

Maybe im just used to there being more surface viens then there was at least when I was testing around with it a bit, like I said, take with a grain of salt, I only ran around for like 20-30 minutes (in creative I should say)

[hollow zodiac]

sphelarite is still bugged (or mostly missing for better wording) but the rest should be pretty much ok

[pearl rose]

Yeah, I don't mind the surface veins being small, I could just see how it would be slightly annoying, I enjoy how the deeper ones are a lot bigger, at least that's what I saw when I tested. I didn't get too much into the caves since its sorta hard to do that in creative but I did do cave mining before the update and I enjoyed it. Again, most of the issues just don't exist past early getting copper and stuff.

[hollow zodiac]

surface veins are still a bit hit or miss imho, i have my own opinions on them and I already made them clear well enough 😄

[acoustic reef]

Yeah surface veins are actually thought to be trap

kinda

early on it can be nice if you need a bit of ores

but then their biggest use is to make you use a propick

to know if it's a normal vein or a surface vein

rather that digging

[pearl rose]

If that's the intention I'm all for it, don't get me wrong. (and yes, propick was very underused in my regular playthrough so you def have to use it more now)

[hollow zodiac]

Right now there are just too many of them and they clutter the prospector imho, that's why i suggested replacing them with gravel deposits. But we may find a common ground in having them but like 50% and cover the remaining 50% with deposits. So the total amount of ore remains the same but the clutter is half

[acoustic reef]

they should have less indicators and be less common now

I'm not against making them gravel deposit

it's just that it will be a bit of work

we need to create new deposits

alter the generation

some tweaks are necessary to make it work

[pearl rose]

It could be fun to make them gravel, or have prospector split up the viens into different numbers somehow, seems evil and difficult

[hollow zodiac]

didn't mean to underplay the effort needed

[acoustic reef]

yeah I'm just explaining why I didn't made the change for this update

[digital gate]

i dont mind being incentived to use a sluice for the first couple anvil tiers, depending on the yields

[acoustic reef]

I think gravel deposits as surface veins is a good idea

we can still have the surface indicator

[hollow zodiac]

it was one of the stated goals for the update anyway

[acoustic reef]

so the propick is jsut easier to use

[hollow zodiac]

yields and density can be always balanced

[digital gate]

should surface gravel deposits have dust indicators instead of nugget indicators then? Since sluicing gives dust right?

[acoustic reef]

no the whole idea is that you don't know what's under

surface veins and normal veins need to have the same indicator

[digital gate]

i felt like i knew what was under when i was messing around due to the mix of indicators though

[acoustic reef]

yeah

that may be an issue

I will see

[hollow zodiac]

it's a fine balance to strike, but I feel like world gen mix things up enough to not make it a precise science

[digital gate]

if the yields are decent i think i'd actually prefer doing the afk sluicing early over querning every ore. That process is really draining at the start

[ocean pulsar]

is the gold to iron ratio tweaked in new ore gen?

[digital gate]

i dont really know how much better sluicing is though since i didnt really use it prior to the patch

[pulsar zephyr]

"A sluice" can't you fairly easily run a double or triple sluice if not several

[digital gate]

ya but i think one is pretty fast

also its afk so you can just let it go while you work on setting up a forge or something

[acoustic reef]

Honestly I agree lol

[hollow zodiac]

damn curseforge is slow with the releases, was hoping to test it this morning

[alpine igloo]

it drops items on the ground so it's not totally afk-able until you get a hopper or chute

but it's pretty fast. It does like 1 deposit every 3 or so seconds iirc?

[hollow zodiac]

Preliminary findings for .12.1 did a couple of test runs, 15 min each not using any creative tool (LuV prospector or creative flight)

• Copper, iron, tin, aluminum, nickel, gold and silver/lead all found in a good time with surface indicators.
• Sphalerite/Zinc still too rare, didn't find a single surface vein & normal veins are restricted to only volcanic areas. Being that one of the goals was to have bismuth bronze more prominent I would suggest either unrestricting normal veins or make a new normal vein with different composition that can spawn everywhere but rarerly
• Still not a fan of deep graphite not having any coal
• Would still suggest a deep version of lead/silver

[noble cobalt]

lead is needed a lot for reactors, so maybe deep lead/silver would be good

[hollow zodiac]

If I may suggest, we could have something inspired by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mines_of_Laurion, deep veins only in marble with lead-galena-silver-copper. Being rock-specific could limit them a bit but at least you could look for deep marble and look around the area

[acoustic reef]

Zinc and Silver may be more common in the Beneath too

I may also modify a bit the moon veins

[hollow zodiac]

Silver is already preferred to be mined in the beneath due to vein percentage, that's true. Moon/Mars ore distribution is completely unknown to me so I can't give proper feedback 🙁 It would still be ok to direct players to the beneath by just saying "if you need a lot of it go into the beneath or the moon"
Zinc is really needed pre steel age for bismuth bronze and create/greate and we have deep veins with plenty, it's the middle ground which is lacking imho

[fallow thunder]

I mean I think Zinc shouldn’t too bad to get pre bronze. Maybe a normal vein with saphlerite and another sulfide ore

[acoustic reef]

it's pretty common pre bronze

[fallow thunder]

I guess they just got unlucky

[acoustic reef]

yeah

[hollow zodiac]

I'm only 1 person and did limited testing, some more comprehensive testing is needed

[fallow thunder]

There has got to be a way to more objectively record how veins are generating 🤔

Well I have ideas, just lack the time to do them

[distant jasper]

I for one can attest zinc isnt that rare, spawn island in dev server is full of zinc veins

[acoustic reef]

yeah I tried different random spawns

you always have a bit of everything spawning to get bronze

[digital gate]

For early game standards its basically afk, just show up once every 5 mins to pick it up. Certainly alot more than right clicking a quern for 5 mins.

[pulsar zephyr]

you can parallel TFC querns

the only gating is "a chisel"

[hardy timber]

you can also parallel sluices, it's just a little harder since you need a larger water source

[proven jungle]

Верните старую нэгенераци руды

Мазафака

[digital gate]

You still have to constantly click them plus hammer and clean the dust, sluices you just drop the gravel on it and it makes dust passively. For early game its alot less tedious, albeit slightly slower, but more sluices could fix that.

[sterile hornet]

it gets pretty fast if you have 4-5 sluices at the same time

[acoustic reef]

I feel like the surface veins are actually insanely good lol

They are so easy to mine and they actually gives a shit ton of ores for early game

[ivory stump]

Yeah I agree, they are useful in the early game, and only start to feel lacking when you're starting to get into low voltage and at that point you just get the ore scanner

[acoustic reef]

I feel like the indicators are too common and the surface veins and normal veins are too common too

there is an abundance of ore

[alpine igloo]

the veins aren't as big or dense as before though right? so it sounds balanced out

[acoustic reef]

i don't want it to be as stupid as before

You know maybe we should just stop making infinite and venus ore processing would be the equivalent

because Idk

I feel we are fucking ourselves

[alpine igloo]

I think you're overthinking it :p

[acoustic reef]

I know the game ahah

[alpine igloo]

options are good and people are gonna need to do the venus stuff for zirconium and other things anyway

[acoustic reef]

I'm telling you Venus ore processing is utterly useless

You would need to be stupid to do it

[alpine igloo]

we've still got 4 more tiers even after iv

[acoustic reef]

I still want to increase costs a bit everywhere

especially during EV

and IV

[alpine igloo]

people will use it for sure, but yes it's hard to balance it when those tiers don't exist

[acoustic reef]

Btw we did some caving to find Graphite with Sakura

it was really fun

we had to make armors and tools

some buffs and all

I think people just sux hard

[alpine igloo]

how annoying were the drowned? lol

[acoustic reef]

not that much

the skelton is what driving you nuts

but the drowned is just one more targetting you from afar

at least they are mostly in water

but there is water everywhere so

[alpine igloo]

at least with the drowned you can use ranged back at them

while skeletons are immune

[acoustic reef]

Sakura had a crossbow from the Beneath that was working

[urban dove]

at what tfc tier were you on

regarding armour and weapons

[acoustic reef]

we used wrought iron

the biggest help was having tricalcium sulfate and good alcohol though

[urban dove]

yeah i think people are just rushing without proper preparation and saying "caving is too hard!"

[acoustic reef]

the caves are also really cool to explore they are so insane

if we did more prep having the scuba stuffs from Create would be very nice too

[urban dove]

even just having a bow is a huge buff

[acoustic reef]

as a lot are underwater

I feel peaceful mode kinda solve the situation for players that don't like to do much prep

[urban dove]

things get even better with guns

[split pendant]

real

caves are very fun to explore, the mob density was the only problem in that you did more getting mauled by skeletons than exploring

[acoustic reef]

the shield is quite goated though

with wrought iron we don't even take damage

but yeah they are the biggest threat

I saw some baby zombies too

[alpine igloo]

it's easy enough to make the spawns more spread out

[digital gate]

i wouldnt say caving is hard, i would usually rush armor and a shield anyways to get kaolin from the beneath. They're just annoying to navigate for what feels like not enough pay off, and I'm not really for the idea of nerfing normal mining to make caving more desirable in comparison

[fallow thunder]

So the things we want to do with our cave biome update, good to know lol

[acoustic reef]

Not everyone can be please anyway

I do think it's fine that players that don't want to do caving have to wait for LV to easily reach the deep veins honestly

Normal veins and surface veins will be enough for the players that dislike exploring

but they are definitely a bit too big and common for now

[digital gate]

ya i think the current version is fine to not have to engage with caving, not sure how much you plan to nerf it though. Spreading them out would be okay, there is currently way too much overlapping of veins, but idk how much smaller they need to be.

[acoustic reef]

I don't know it's very hard to play with the numbers

ideally I keep the same size but have them spawn much less

If I can't find the right balance I would nerf a bit the size

it's very hard to balance these veins

[digital gate]

Ya that would be the ideal for me if you could figure out how to spread them out abit without nerfing the size too much. Going back to the convo you were having before i'd much rather see later game have increased resource costs over nerfing vein size in the overworld. The early grind feels like a good spot to me and i'd rather not have to potentially double the mines I need to get the same amount of ore.

[acoustic reef]

yeah it's just a mix between both

the old generation I really disliked

It was insanely big veins randomly spread with all the ores from the game

I do like that for example there is still bauxite/ilmenite in the new worldgen

but the big ones are on the moon

same for tungsten

or graphite

there is something I think exciting about being like "Okay I need fluorine let's go to the moon"

[digital gate]

I'd be fine with really big deep veins on the overworld if they were spread out more. Like having them be very restrictive in biome conditions like you can only find deep bismuth in mountain biomes but the veins are massive. Might encourage exploration and maybe setting up train networks for miners (although something like bismuth is probably a bad example since you dont need that much).

[acoustic reef]

yeah I will tweak a bit more the veins though in the case of big restricted veins

we can assume players will use planes

At the end of the day it will always be hard to make trains matter

the best option is the fluid veins

Though I really don't want big veins on earth

The ones one 0.12.1 are already some times pretty insane

a bit too much

we will see

[digital gate]

ya the only idea i'd have is if you made the ores in deep veins be really slow to mine by hand, but miners work at the same speed. So you're encouraged to setup proper mining rigs to get at them.

[acoustic reef]

that would still be done through a plane though

The whole idea is always about unlocking new things and rewarding the players

I'm obsessed about that because that's the only way to try to keep the players

especially in a GT packs

[frosty stone]

over in #1489448044796579930 i tweaked the world gen to make sure i have land connecting everywhere, from desert to arctic and kaolin lands. because i want to make a good train world.

but.. thats by choice tho.. so..

[acoustic reef]

pretty cool though submarine train tunnel could exists too :p

[split pendant]

This doesn't feel like it accomplishes much? Miners are already the default option for mining, and you really only hand mine if you have resources you need at this very moment

[digital gate]

Ya you'd have to somehow force players to use miners, but also require miners to have some kindof constant input through trains that can't just be passive generated on the spot.

[acoustic reef]

We won't do that though

this ship is sailled since a long time

We made trains more useful on new planets

and the fluid veins change should also brings some support to the trains usefulness

[fallow thunder]

You know I do wonder how hard it would be to make it so there was a train track that would be easily placeable on water. Doesn’t really solve people real issue of having to place them all down

[acoustic reef]

You can always have your own train placing them

issue is if you want to turn I guess

[frosty stone]

yea, i have been playing with the idea of underwater rail lines, but i build a huge tanker ship to move oil.. but..

i like tr...

[split pendant]

Not having diesel right underneath your base 100% of the time is a great change imo

[frosty stone]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-iliketrains-trains-gif-4905803

[fallow thunder]

I guess in my mind if there was an easier way to bulk transport over water people would be more receptive. But then it’s the same issue of not wanting to build very long train lines.

[acoustic reef]

yeah

I mean I remember this mod

for boats

[fallow thunder]

Tiny logistics?

[acoustic reef]

where you could make boat paths

Oh maybe it's Tiny Logistics

[alpine igloo]

if you hold a block in your off hand, it'll be placed under the tracks

[fallow thunder]

https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/little-logistics

[alpine igloo]

so you can do the bridge that way

[frosty stone]

this is cute. how do we make it big, ugly and industrial?

[digital gate]

https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/little-contraptions

[split pendant]

TRUE

[fallow thunder]

well ok lets think a bit

[acoustic reef]

they are really cute

Personally I'm not against nerfing again the cost of rails

They could cost shit I wouldn't see an issue with that

[acoustic reef]

lol pretty nice

[fallow thunder]

If we say boats would allow you to just set point a and point b and it goes between them, but only on water. Trains need more infastructure but go over land and such

I don't hate it

[acoustic reef]

me neither

[fallow thunder]

but I would like if they were a bit larger

[acoustic reef]

yeah

[frosty stone]

what about adding a huge mid screen toast popup on every world join that says "please use trains"

[fallow thunder]

more realistic

[frosty stone]

https://tenor.com/view/you-want-to-feel-like-you-really-in-the-game-derrick-acosta-mega64-do-you-wanna-make-it-feel-real-make-it-feel-realistic-gif-17269685

[digital gate]

I'm not sure if these contraptions are actually intractable or not, like would interfaces and tanks work on them or does the tiny boat not care?

[acoustic reef]

it seems to be working with the addon

[fallow thunder]

both those mods are a tad old, so I do worry about that

[alpine igloo]

just make the invisible rails easier

easier than trying to integrate a whole another mod

[acoustic reef]

the mod has auto pathing though?

[fallow thunder]

but the bigger problem as I see it is actually placing them all down, that doesn't solve that

[alpine igloo]

does this even go through unloaded chunks?

[split pendant]

Last updated 2023, doesn't work with create 6

[acoustic reef]

it does

pretty smoothly

only load the chunk for itself

[frosty stone]

like trains do then?

[acoustic reef]

it's okay fork it

[alpine igloo]

I still think that having a rail network on your continent is a better option than forcing one to the deserts

different biomes for different oils

[acoustic reef]

could be unlucky and not having anything on your continent

[frosty stone]

like.. alaska oil vs sahara oil?

[acoustic reef]

anyway nerfing the rails even more is never a bad idea

[alpine igloo]

still needs you to go to different places, more interesting to place the rails than just straight lines across oceans

yeah I did make a github thing last week to move all rail stuff to steel

[acoustic reef]

1 rod for 64 rails

1 Bolt for 64 rails

The cheaper we can make them lol

[alpine igloo]

that's fine, the desert can still be a way to find all oils in one place if you want

[acoustic reef]

the better

[acoustic reef]

yeah I like this idea

[split pendant]

Tiny pile of tiny pile of tiny pile of steel

[frosty stone]

no matter how much i love trains in create. the cost isnt the biggest problem imho, the 20 thousand blocks i need to place them down for a single train stop is..

am minecraft masochist tho.. so..

[acoustic reef]

I will explore it more this weekend

[digital gate]

even just replacing rods for bolts would be big

[alpine igloo]

so you have the option of desert for all oils, or spread out on your continent for different ones

[acoustic reef]

As usual rewarding the most effort is nice while offering options for the more lazy of us

[alpine igloo]

then we can use the tar/asphalt blocks as markers for the continent

indicators without tons of oilsands ores or spouts lol

[acoustic reef]

yeah keeping it unaccessible is the most important to me

[frosty stone]

i like to be lazy efficient in minecraft. trying to make tfg force me to not be lazy. also in every day life

[split pendant]

Dummy low chance (no chance!?) of depletion + consistently high quality veins for desert veins, as a compelling "do it once, never think about it again" could be neat too?

[frosty stone]

tom truly dont want infinite of resource procurement. and i get that, tried to suggest a middle ground. but that too was not optimal.

[acoustic reef]

That’s about fluid veins

It’s a bit different

Im still wondering how I want to go about it

[split pendant]

I should have time tomorrow to do a "playthrough" through LV, basically just, walking/flying around in whatever is available at that tier, and checking off needed ores as I find them, focusing entirely on ore distribution and how long it took to find things.

[acoustic reef]

Thanks I may ask you to do after I push some new values

Right now I’m pretty certain there is too many veins

There is so many indicators everywhere it’s actually underwhelming

[grizzled mica]

I finally have some time to play, so far I see no indicators for completing any type of bronze. Either I only have gold and no silver, sphalerite but no bismuth, and I haven't seen a single cassiterite indicator but that can actually be left without one since there's cassiterite gravel, bronze from the surface can be delegated to panning but black and bismuth bronze should still be available for regions without many rivers. There's also plenty of iron indicators so once bronze progression is fixed iron will also be straightforward without much caving.

For caving a set of bronze armor and a reliable source of healing is enough so make sure to teach players about sources of healing in the quest line, the status effects quests do mention regeneration but in my case I somehow missed it so making a small section dedicated to healing should make things clearer. Maybe make a caving preparations quest before the beneath preparation quests in the survival section.

I also managed to mine a copper vein and indeed it's much poorer than before but one vein should be enough for tools and an anvil. Then I believe another copper vein plus one vein of each type of bronze ingredient should be enough for an anvil, a bloomery, and some of the most important bronze tools.

So far I don't have any complaints about the extra grind, and I've seen cave-ins complaints but they are trivial to manage once you know how. Hell, concrete support beams are pretty easy to make and they make things a lot easier.

[alpine igloo]

is this in 0.12.0 or .1

[grizzled mica]

Oh shit I didn't see that .1 was available

[acoustic reef]

You are on the broken ore gen version :p

this confirm to me though

that you definitely will say that 0.12.1 has too many veins

we may need to do some pass on the quests too yeah

[grizzled mica]

Spent some time with new generation, yeah it feels closer to normal amounts of indicators again

Haven't mined more than that one malachite vein tho so I can't comment on the vein richness but after processing what I got it was plenty for that stage of the game

I can see how much of a pain the iron for a blast furnace would be if you wanted to go for shallow veins but as I stated previously at that stage you're already prepared to go for deeper veins

[hardy timber]

surface copper veins are fine as they are honestly, you dig one out and you have plenty of copper to get into the copper/bronze age

they probably won't be enough for all the copper you'll need in later ages but that's not really their purpose

[acoustic reef]

yeah the surface veins are actually quite impressive

[hexed shard]

To me, the issue isn't so much building the track, but rather it's the fact that players generally want to make a track that looks kinda realistic and follows the land. Making an automated track layer for going in straight lines is pretty easy, the main issue is that I don't think there's any way to sequence blocks placed by a deployer so things like lights would have to be placed via schematicannon or... manually (blugh ugh gross)

The create roller things help a lot with the terraforming for ground-level tracks though

I also do want to emphasize what was said earlier about phantom tracks being easier. Because, atm, they do kinda force you to make a mob grinder if you actually want to use them for anything.

Which, if that's the intent, then it might be good to make sure the haunted bell is accessible and there is a quest that explains how to use it

One option could be to add an invisibility salve option for making the phantom tracks, and adding some way to farm flowers and such earlier than the electric greenhouse.

Btw, going back to some of the earlier discussions about incentivizing trains. What about, for the biome-restricted mega-veins, there is a small chance for them to spawn with a bedrock ore that can be extracted from infinitely, though at a limited rate?

I also feel like it would be good to make earth the infinite source for at least a few important resources, just to keep it relevant into the planned late game beyond just it being the default of where your original base is

[split pendant]

Tom wants to know your location.

[copper moss]

thats kinda what the planet infinites are for
if you want like all the ores being like that then you would have to completely rework ore gen and mining like frontiers did

[hexed shard]

It could also just be a few specific things. I think iron was a good choice as an earth infinity for its use in track making.

Maybe limiting more of the rock crusher stones to be earth-only, notably including clay?

Possibly limiting wood-to-oil liquefaction to earth only for infinite oil? Or replacing that process entirely with something else that is limited to only earth

Reconstituted stone could possibly be a good candidate for a universally available rock crusher stone that has limited uses

[sweet kayak]

people use the rock crusher as a way of sourcing building materials that are otherwise quite time consuming to get

[cobalt garnet]

i have stupid idea
terrafirmagreg-bio

artificial meat (very cheap protein source), cryosleep (neccessary for going further than Mars/Venus), solar flares and radiation protection, cancer...

[frosty stone]

TFG already has the last one.. just find some uraninite when mining and youre cooked.

[magic wagon]

we do have artificial cheese now and large bio chamber in progress

Found the Internet Explorer user.

[copper moss]

lab meat might be implemented in like luv+ from the conversation I've heard but its just an idea for now

[alpine igloo]

this isn't oregen related

[sweet kayak]

Meat ore from eldritch influence on the moon titan

[noble cobalt]

flesh planet is planned

[sweet kayak]

Can't wait for 3 different parasite mods to infight

[acoustic reef]

So I'm planning to increase rarity of:

-Surface veins
-Normal veins

Lower the amount of indicator for every veins

Think that should be good enough to have something close to the final ore gen

[alpine igloo]

what's the indicator rarity at rn? the number we had in 0.11 felt pretty ok imo, since remember you need to find enough copper bits to even make metal tools in the first place, and making the veins rarer will already affect the "noise" on the surface

[acoustic reef]

not sure why but the 0.11 numbers were lower that we have for normal veins now

and I still feel the normal veins have too many indicator

[fallow thunder]

Maybe surface veins have more indicators and normal have less? Comparatively

[acoustic reef]

the main culprit could be that there is way more veins

I forgot what was the number

[alpine igloo]

yeah, would be good to see how it looks with just rarer veins first

before fiddling with the indicator rarity

[distant jasper]

yeah the veins themselves are pretty common, change that first

[acoustic reef]

new surface veins and indicators

sounds more balanced

[alpine igloo]

what's the before/after rarity of the indicators?

[acoustic reef]

12 to 16

[alpine igloo]

hmmm

still enough around the copper ones?

[acoustic reef]

copper ones where the most plentiful

let me find some

but I just crashed my instance with TFG shader lol

relative to the size it doesn't feel too bad

[alpine igloo]

hmm

I do worry a little that it's too few

[acoustic reef]

I can bump it a tiny bit

[alpine igloo]

how many would you need to find to make a pick + saw?

[acoustic reef]

6?

oh no

Around 14

8 if you skip to bronze

I could bump it the rarity by 1

[alpine igloo]

is that just the small ores? or with them turned into dusts? because you can't turn them into dust without a quern which requires a chisel

[acoustic reef]

And increase it for the veins that are smaller

[acoustic reef]

no just a vessel

[alpine igloo]

hmhm

[acoustic reef]

they give 16mb

You need 288mb

[alpine igloo]

so that's 18 total

[acoustic reef]

yeah

and I guess 12 for bronze

9 to 12

[alpine igloo]

mm bumping the rarity by 1 or 2 for copper sounds good then

nobody's gonna complain about more copper lol

[acoustic reef]

Okay adjusted the indicator rarity

Regarding vein rarity I think it's nice

It's still quite common but not everywhere

Let's see the normal veins now

that's normal veins

feels fine?

[acoustic reef]

For anyone available to test the new ore gens you need to download this zip
https://github.com/TomPlop/Modpack-Modern/archive/refs/heads/0.12.2-worldgen-veins.zip
delete the kubejs file in your instance and copy the one in this zip

Delete the Terrafirmagreg core mod in your mod folder
and replace it with this one
then create a new world in creative
and browse to test veins

[sharp isle]

What are the plans for this ore gen? Buffs/nerfs tl;dr

[acoustic reef]

Small nerf regarding spawning rate of surface and normal veins because they were too common and became a bit underwhelming

less indicators so they aren't everywhere on the map

[random pendant]

Tetrahedrite veins looks more rare now, there a reason for that?

[acoustic reef]

yeah I felt with the three copper veins

they were just everywhere

should still take you only 20 minutes max to find a copper vein

[random pendant]

going to be a painful search for Stibnite

[acoustic reef]

if rarity is too high I can adjust

[acoustic reef]

Stibnite is still extremely common in volcanic biomes

if you find a volcanic biome (and they are quite common)

you are 99% sure to find a stibnite vein

pretty massive too

if that's not true anymore I can adjust numbers

What's important is that:

-Copper is still very easy to find
-You should find what you need for at least one bronze type really fast
-You still notice indicators but they are a bit less everywhere
-Early game especially reaching at least one Bronze should still be easy and fast

[random pendant]

I only see Chalcopyrite veins, been to 5 Volcanos

[acoustic reef]

that's concerning

[acoustic reef]

Oh sorry

Stibnite is Mountains not Volcanic

Some Volcanic biomes are also mountains but not all of them

We have a better interface on EMI coming too to know which biomes is part of which family

[random pendant]

this new vein, Chalcocite looks sexy ... haha

1800 copper in one chunk with 700 cobalt

wow

[digital gate]

i think the overall intent is to encourage the use of prospecting tools, give more use to caving and encourage exploration though creating more common veins in particular biomes. Imo compared to 0.11 its a slight nerf in terms of how easily you can access dense veins but not enough to negatively effect the early experience.

[random pendant]

might have to look into Stibnite and Tetrahedrite, I have not found any yet.

[acoustic reef]

Also having deep veins harder to find early game alleviate a bit the overwhelming amount of ores for new players

A new players that find an indicator will know that it's an useful ores right at the point they are

We had sometime questions about players asking what's the use for an ore

[random pendant]

plenty of the other copper veins

[acoustic reef]

That shouldn't happen as often now as any ores they find will be useful

[random pendant]

that is the exciting part of the TFC early game, finding all the resources and then find a good spot to settle

[acoustic reef]

yeah so now it should feel more that way

less indicators will makes it more obvious to you when you find a good zone

[random pendant]

first vein for Tet ->

[acoustic reef]

that means you are in a mountain biomes

you should find silver too btw

[random pendant]

i didnt check now every 9x9 chunk but in that area I only found 2 - Stibnite veins and they were low

[acoustic reef]

tetrahedrite/copper/stibnite?

[random pendant]

yeah

[acoustic reef]

only two sounds low

I may bump up the spawning

Feedback:

-Check tetrahedrite/copper/stibnite in mountains could be a bit too low (either buff spawn or size)

[random pendant]

yeah and when I find tetrahedrite/copper/stibnite, the amount is very low. compared to the other copper veins

although, there are plenty of tetrahedrite/copper/stibnite in the Beneath

this is what I like to see in the Beneath ->

[versed walrus]

how do we know if a biome is volcanic? like does it have to have the name volcano in it like the Volcanic Oceanic Islands or is it just anywhere near a volcano

and does it have to be an active volcano or can it be dormant/extinct

[acoustic reef]

Beneath ore gen will be rework at one point thoigh

so it's more in phase with Moon and Mars vein gen

Bigger veins for specific ores you need at that point

so stibnite is a good example that it should stay very good in the Beneath

[alpine igloo]

yeah we're gonna redo a whole load of the beneath (and make it a lot taller) so it'll get an ore rework

[ocean pulsar]

Surface copper is very rare
Like so rare i have to do major expeditions to even find enough for a pickaxe

Also saltpeter is very common so it could affect food early game drastically.

[alpine igloo]

is this in the 0.12.2 test?

[ocean pulsar]

Wait no

[acoustic reef]

Did you look for malachite/tetrahedrite/copper for your copper?

Oh okay!

[ocean pulsar]

It’s 0.12.1 feedback

[acoustic reef]

On 0.12.1 copper was way too common

You may have been incredibly unlucky

[ocean pulsar]

I hate malachite and tetrahedrite and chalkopyrite for copper. The ratios are awful. Maybe option to dump it from vessel to not leave 7mb of copper (solid)

[acoustic reef]

Eh thats intended

To make ore processing progression more rewarding

[ocean pulsar]

I get why
That’s why the dump function for vessel would help

[acoustic reef]

You can dump what’s left in a ingot mold

And always use that mold for any left

[ocean pulsar]

Is there a bind for it? I didn’t know you can empty partially filled ingot molds

[acoustic reef]

Ah you can’t

You have to store the mold ahah

And not forget about it

( I always forgot)

[ocean pulsar]

Damn

[scarlet flax]

i do love forgetting that i already have 4 vessels with 16 mb of copper

[obtuse adder]

did 0.12.2 got another ore rework

[acoustic reef]

Check the pins

[frosty stone]

booting up with new tfg profile having the new files now. will make report 😄

[thorny meadow]

How would it work in my 1.21.1 world?

[hardy timber]

what do you mean 1.21.1

[frosty stone]

1. new world, completely standard (random template). spawn
2. locations of tin.
3. tin with asbestos
4. surface vein of malachite, placed the raw block under the samples i could find. small vein.
5. prospick of img 4.
6. location of vein in accordance to samples.
7. there is a large normal chalcopyrite vein next to a small mala vein, both have surface indicators.
8. the raw ore blocks placed where the surface samples spawned. (for spread/amount report)
   9.its easier to see the raw ore replaced blocks with the world stripped, here is a visual of the smal mala vein, the chalco vein and tin vein. i can also see the iron vein with mala in it, this iron vein did not have surface indicators.

you can always run it up to seed luck. this is around 250 blocks from spawn, easy tin bronze without mountain needed.

when it comes to the surface indicators. i like that the deep veins wont show it.

when it comes to small/normal veins, mostly the mixed veins vs single veins i think there should either be a uniform indicator so you dont know what type of copper vein (or other mix vein) there is under, or also have the small veins mixed so surface indicators are mixed.

if what i understood before is still the case, where you want players to have to use the tfc propick to know if its a small vein or normal vein can easily be done by eye just seeing the type of samples (unless i got something wrong?) and even the size of the indicators is a giveaway of the vein size. i think the amount of indicators could still be kinda big.

[alpine igloo]

from my understanding of how the algorithm works, surface indicators are placed in a chunk if that chunk contains part of a bounding box of that vein

which basically means how far they're spread from the main ore blocks isn't something we have much control over

[frosty stone]

from my knowledge about ore gen in vanilla minecraft, if the red square is a proper chunk, then minecraft will run world generation (dirt, rock etc.) once that is done it will populate with ores in the blue square, hitting the corner of 4 chunks.

i dont know if base tfc changed this. or if gregtech does changes to this logic aswell with a full new system, or if its based off of vanilla in some way.

i think tom said something before about noise when it comes to surface samples, and to make fewer spawn on the surface.

[alpine igloo]

a) that's for vanilla's ore feature which is completely different from tfc's. Vanilla features are restricted to 3x3 chunks, so tfc has its own system to get around that and let you have veins be much bigger
b) the only reason vanilla has some quirky veins on chunk borders is because they're specifically coded to be quirky like that. Part of it was originally because of notch spaghetti code, then they kept it

for example the thing about clay disks with diamonds underneath is because they share exactly the same "stats" and use the same rng seed

[frosty stone]

thanks for clarifying 😄

but is there something specific elsewise you want more feedback on for with the ore gen?

[acoustic reef]

I would like it if we could make the tool not shows all the indicator of the veins

Would help with the design goal of confusing the players about « is it surface or is it normal »

[acoustic reef]

Overall good ore gen ?

[frosty stone]

from what i can see, there is a good spread/mix of the veins. flew around a little bit more to look for bismuth and found it aprox 500 blocks away from the last screenshot, only went one direction thought, could be way more the opposite way

i feel its better than 0.12.1, but i think ill need to do a survival run and get past bronze to know for sure (dont have time for that until next weekend lol, so creative testing is what i can do)

[thorny meadow]

sorry 1.12.1

[hexed shard]

Decided to futz around with the test version. Walked around until I found all the ores for at least 1 type of bronze, in this case cassiterite was the one that finished it. Ended up taking about 15ish minutes. I also marked all the bronze-relevant ores I found as well (except the red L, which is limonite, and the green S, which is spawn, for reference)

This was just me walking around, btw. Not flying, and I did sorta cheat with the chalcocite by accidentally noticing it when I took some screenshots of the prospector for overall vein occurance, in case that was useful to you guys

The indicators are a LOT less common, definitely, which I like. But also... honestly, I feel like veins should be rarer but bigger

But, in general, I tend to prefer mechanics that encourage multiple bases, since that encourages building infrastructure, and needing infrastructure is a great way to encourage players to build more

And imo building is the biggest strength of voxel games like minecraft

[hexed shard]

One thing I'm noticing, just flying around, is that it seems like the largest veins are not actually all that big?

Like, maybe 2-5k, depending on what it is

Which, if the long-term goal is to encourage setting up infrastructure on a mining site, even if it's only miners + trains... that doesn't seem like a lot

For comparison, a single double chest can store 2,304 ore, which is a tiny amount for a train. A cargo airship, if you only fill the four outer inventories, can store 4,096 ore

Which... tbh, that may be a good reason to nerf the stack size of ore, so that processing ore into ingots on-site can be actually an attractive option compared to just moving ore around

[split pendant]

The goal wasn't to encourage setting up trains or permanant mining sites ;p

that was the goal with the oil changes

But had nothing to do with the ores

[hexed shard]

Tom (or maybe Pyrite?) has discussed elsewhere that that is a goal in the future

As for only the oil changes being used to encourage trains, I don't see why they would limit themselves to only using that feature for trains?

Moving mining materials around seems like such a low-hanging fruit

[acoustic reef]

That’s only true for fluid veins not ore gen

[acoustic reef]

Yeah that’s intended

[split pendant]

So I was right :P

[acoustic reef]

The idea is that earth has a bit of everything

But nothing massive

The massive veins will be on their respective planets

For example moon at the end of you need a lot of rutile and fluorine

So you will find massive veins of topaz and bauxite on the moon

On mars you will find massive veins of tungsten

[hexed shard]

Hm... I still think that Earth should have at least a few things that it has in massive veins, even if those massive veins are rare.

[acoustic reef]

You can also expect with the beneath rework to see the same idea

[hexed shard]

I do like the idea of each planet having something that it specializes in, though

[hexed shard]

Oh, is the beneath going to have massive amounts of some things? like how it currently has a specialty in anthracite?

[urban dove]

like iron

are the coal veins still big

[fallow thunder]

I mean I think something like iron and maybe coal would be things that could have larger veins on earth. Granted oils are already a unique thing to earth

[hexed shard]

Yeah, I was thinking oil/oilsands being an earth specialty. I also agree that coal, and maybe iron could be specialties. Graphite and diamond would better fit the theme that is started with coal + oil for earth being high in carbon, though.

Not that graphite or diamond are needed in massive quantities, but tbh I think it would be good to have Earth's specialties to not be too good. Otherwise, it would start outshining the other planets

[split pendant]

moon has huge graphite/coal/diamond veins. it's a lil weird but i'm thankful because if you have a base like mine you'll burn thousands of the stuff on high gauge graphene cable

[hexed shard]

Oh, right, I forgot that there's a whole biome on the moon that's themed around an abundance of diamonds...

In that case, yeah, just oil + coal would be fine, especially if the beneath comes with its own renewables, since from what I've heard it sounds like it'll be relatively easy to automatically move stuff back and forth from the beneath and earth

Once the overhaul is done

[frosty stone]

i truly hope the beneath overhaul has a way for trains to pass between it and the overworld. that would be such a sweet thing.

[hexed shard]

I have suggested that exact thing to them. It sounds like it'll probably end up being something like a low-tech railgun that only moves stuff between the beneath and the overworld, and only if they are both at the same relative coordinates for the two dimensions.

Which, at least functionally, is pretty close to what you could do with a train going back and forth.

[acoustic reef]

Yeah that’s basically the idea I have

I still need to convince Pyritie but that’s where I want to go

[acoustic reef]

Graphite is now required in huge quantities during MV

[acoustic reef]

Regarding trains I’m afraid we will never do it

[hexed shard]

Yeah, I kinda figured it would be way too much effort. I remember floating the idea to others with portal-y teleport mechanics and they said they looked into it and realized the nether portal thing vanilla create does was kinda useless for anything other than that and was kinda a hack anyway. And without something like that to piggyback off of... GG

[random pendant]

Tin, Bismuth, Zinc, Lead, Silver, gold surface ore is horrible.
It looks like for Tin, there are more flint ore over them, which is weird.

I do not get why is there a need to change a working system. When I started to play TFG, that was on 0.7 or 0.6, long time ago.
The surface ore was also not that great and we were forced to dig down and walk around like brainless husks, prospecting the walls to find a decent ore.

Then you guys improve the ore generation, made it fun. Now we didnt need to walk around and doing tedious tasks, we could find the ore and progress, instead of spending HOURS on HOURs finding ore. Which gets very tiresome if this is a repeated feature.

now we are moving back to this frustrating feature, not everyone has time to spend hours upon hours trying to find ore to progress.

This will force two things on players.

new players will eventually get frustrated and quit

OR people will just cheat and give themselves a LV prospector and you have achieved nothing. This was a very common complaint early in TFG, where the most common advice was to give yourself a LV prospector

I get that it can be overwhelming for new players to find all these different types of surface ore but that is actually a player problem and not a game problem.
Most of the time, they do not have enough backpack space to carry everything, which hurts their OCD.
I would rather guide the player to focus on getting a backpack sooner rather than trying to change this whole ore gen system.

This reintroduces the most annoying part back in the day when it was so damn hard to find ore.

Also, why nerfing Coal ore so much! Coal is a great fuel source!

Side note. I have spent about an hour, flying over those early game ores and used a copper prospector, nothing constantly nothing.

[distant jasper]

Are you in 12.1? 12.0 had broken ore gen

[random pendant]

0.12.2

TomTomTom made a new ore gen release and made this feedback channel for that

[distant jasper]

ic

[versed tinsel]

I've just spawned in on the 0.12.1 client with the 0.12.2 patches from TomTomTom.
Immediately upon spawning in on a "shore" biome, next to a "Plains" and "Hills" biome and using the LuV prospector i have a total of 22 chalcocite copper samples and no other copper bearing samples found.
There is plenty of available Tin/Cassiterite, but no other bronze metals (3 veins within distance).
There is a semi large vein of Iron bearing ore.

Walking 250 blocks in a radius from spawn (not into the ocean), looking for surface indicators, I am able to find plenty of Cassiterite/Tin along the beach, and some in the forest. I am able to see more surface indicators of more "advanced" ores such as cobaltite, garnerite, coal, halite, tricalcium phosphate, etc. Besides the Tin, nothing that can be used at the start. And without copper, I cannot use the Tin either.

I found a few tiny indicators of iron ores (hematite/limonite) - 2/3 stones.

I found 1 structure with 6 bits of copper and 5 bits of Bismuth.

Walking (500-750) radius from spawn (still not into the ocean) I was able to find a small surface indicator deposit of chalcopyrite and iron stones.
I would say within 5-10min I am able to get started on TFC alloying and get the first tier of bronze casted tools.

[versed tinsel]

There is a river system not far from spawn with some - not a lot - of small (4-5 block) deposits of silver/gold/tin sands that can be sluiced for resources once copper tools have been attained.
Had I played on this seed as a regular play-through I can foresee being able to get to Tin-Bronze relatively fast (10-15ish mins), then naturally being able to step into black bronze (2+ hours). And then a huge delay in getting to Iron - as the copper amounts around the spawn are either very far down, or non-existent in spawns. I would have to run quite a lot to attempt to find a better place to settle. However even with the LuV prospector and flying, the amount of copper indicators found so far is 2 minor spots.

Overall feeling after about 20-30min flying around looking for ore - it is a lot harder to gauge the "quality" of the spawn based on the ressources present. The biggest thing adding to this right now, seems to be the removal of the indicators from Xaero's map, and not so much the new ore-generation. So if you want people playing more and looking at the map less, this is for sure a good thing.
I foresee going into the "mid" TFC game with huge problems as copper is so rare. All the iron deposits I've found are absolutely huge, but deep down, so they are a lot harder to get to from the start. (retracted statements on copper as 15-20 more minutes of flying about found more veins)

[alpine igloo]

the indicator section of the tool is completely customizable. You can tell it what blocks to use with what weights you want. I disagree that they should be confusing to players though, that sounds more frustrating and time wasting.

[versed tinsel]

After about 45mins of flying around, with the LuV guiding me to areas with copper, this is all I've been able to collect easily - certainly enough for a start, but not much more.
I took the route drawn on the map. I think copper might be okay, but certainly the changes has slowed down the early game quite a lot.
Overall I feel like I found a lot of malachite/goethite veins and chalcopyrite/pyrite veins on the LuV scanner, but few actual surface indicators so early game iron and copper should be good but harder to find. However more complex ores seem far more rare in spawns, however very huge in amount when located on the scanner (nickel, calcite, saltpeter, etc.).

From the LuV scanner I am also not able at all to locate Gold or Silver bearing veins anywhere in the ground around spawn (1000+ blocks).
I was also quite starved for sulfur veins as they were tiny in size (max 50 blocks in the vein).
Zinc/sphalerite was also no where to be found in the ground

So I see very early game being ever so slightly harder than on 0.11, but still okay - mainly driven by the removal of surface indicators from the map.
Mid game TFC or transition into Steam Age or LV being far harder/requiring more travel to track down deposits - because of lack of gold/silver/zinc).
How then to track down these harder to find ores needed for colored steels without surface indicators?

• Random caving
• Random prospecting with iron tier prospector
• +2000 block traveling

[acoustic reef]

There is a lot of feedback of players wanted it

[acoustic reef]

Thanks for the feedback it feels though that you were incredibly unlucky

Something that could also happen on the old ore gen though

[acoustic reef]

Im really confuse because the early game is actually easier that on 0.11 right now

You find the ores you need to progress into LV very easily

Silver is easier to find

Redstone is easier to find

Bismuth is easier to find

I wonder if the feeling is due to the smaller veins which creates the idea that you would lack ores

Or just mostly the removal of the indicator on the map 🤔

[alpine igloo]

they also said they didn't want to waste time digging out a ton of mines that ended up being useless

[acoustic reef]

Both feedbacks are valid

I don’t think any player who likes the idea is less legitimate that the one who doesn’t like it

[alpine igloo]

yeah, there's a balance

[alpine igloo]

[random pendant]

With the removal of the ore indicators on the map and a lot less surface ore, it is definitely not easier than 0.11

I can have bismuth bronze a lot faster in 0.11 because of the surface ore that is a lot more

I usually travel from spawn to 6000,6000 roughly, it depends on the climate but I like to settle in a 15c area, by the time I get there I have 4 stacks of copper and 1 stack of each bismuth and zinc. When I travelled about 3000 blocks, I still didn't find any Bismuth or zinc but i had plenty of copper.

[acoustic reef]

I can show you the actual numbers it’s more common that before

Also don’t know what you mean by surface ores

There wasn’t any surface ore in 0.11 ?

I feel like the biggest change for you guys is that there isn’t the possibility to see the ore indicator on the map

[alpine igloo]

I think they mean the indicators?

since you can't see indicators on the map any more, making sure there's enough indicators to clearly notice the vein without having to inspect every single block would be good

[random pendant]

yeah sorry, I am using the wrong term here

it is the ore indicators

I can see there is a overall improvement in the world gen ore, definitely an upgrade from 0.11

but I ran over 5 tin veins, zero tin indicators

there is no bismuth or zinc either

I am fine by taking the ore indicators off the map, I like to explore and I travel a lot anyway but not seeing anything on the ground either, it is back to 0.7

[acoustic reef]

Hmm I still have the indicators though

I don’t see how this can be compared to 0.7

Do you have a screenshot of you on a vein where surface indicators are hard to see?

It’s hard for me to believe it

[alpine igloo]

could you share your seed?

[random pendant]

people will struggle to find bismuth/silver/gold/zinc and use lv prospector because they will be frustrated

[acoustic reef]

On 0.12.1 there was a lot of feedback of indicators being way too common leading to too much veins and an underwhelming feeling when finding ores

I had this same feedback myself

[acoustic reef]

It’s really hard for me to believe it

[random pendant]

I have generated a new world, maybe I was just super unlucky

[acoustic reef]

I ran 5 new worlds and had plenty of ore indicators everywhere

[acoustic reef]

Yeah honestly I think so

[random pendant]

no redstone in the chunk or bismuth or silver

[acoustic reef]

Thats because it’s a deep vein

Deep veins don’t have ore indicators on the surface

But also you don’t need the deep veins before being into LV

[random pendant]

hmm how will I know it is a deep vein from those 2 screenshots? then I can help you with better data

[acoustic reef]

Deep veins are a reward for unlocking the LV Ore Prospector or for the players that do early game caving

[acoustic reef]

That’s a limitation we have right now 🙁

You can’t know from the GT prospector

You can use a Propick though

[random pendant]

I went over 3 other redstone veins and nothing

[acoustic reef]

There is two types of redstone veins

One massive with no surface indicator

One smaller with surface indicator

You can also do « U » on the GT prospector to see all the veins.

Or use the field guide to browse all the existing veins

[random pendant]

ok this redstone was at -11

[acoustic reef]

Both redstone veins are deep veins

It’s a specific case

[random pendant]

I found tin ore indicators! lol

here I found 1 ruby ore indicator over a redstone vein, very small one though

there is a tin vein over the redstone ore, according to the Prospector, but I do not see the tin

[alpine igloo]

you can use /tfc clearworld to clear away everything that isn't ore, if it helps

[random pendant]

i crashed my world, let me gen another one... LOL

[weary oxide]

Are the oilsands now completely in the desert, or are they in a normal climate?
I think a complete transfer it to the deserts will weaken the diesel that is currently meta

[acoustic reef]

That’s the plan yeah

I expect a big comeback of biodiesel and steam 😂

[random pendant]

new popular location will be around -7000, 5000 😉

where all the Oil Slicks are spawning

[acoustic reef]

It's fucking hot and dry

[random pendant]

well I think about HV age, so I will probably start at around Temp, setup a temp base, get all the stuff I need like Olive Saplings and basic food seeds, Backpack etc. then relocate to that area

[acoustic reef]

This isn't part of ore gen discussion but the fluid veins are getting more variety in the next update too

[random pendant]

cool

deleted the config and default config with kubejs files, installed the mods that you have uploaded, generated a new world, I see more ore indicators now for tin, I have not looked at the others yet. I spawned in a desert area, so that it is easier to find the ores

[wheat barn]

so what is changing in the new version and when will it come out

[acoustic reef]

Check the pins

[keen shell]

It should still be possible to skip straight to bronze right?

Cause NGL doing the whole copper dance is kinda tedious when you're fortunate enough to have access to copper and tin at the same time

[alpine igloo]

you still have to make the copper anvil, that's not changing

[keen shell]

yea thats fine

what I meant was I saw some debate recently about making copper tools mandatory

well "recently" a few weeks ago

glad that didn't go anywhere

[acoustic reef]

A debate between who

I don't remember any of that lol

[keen shell]

debate not arguement

cant remember names lol was a while ago

[versed tinsel]

To add to my previous inputs. Copper is definitely not a problem.
Generated a new world, and copper is absolutely everywhere.
Tin seems a bit rarer than on previous world, but not a bottleneck. Bismuth and sphalerite are quite rare on both worlds. Even using the LuV scanner I am unable to find silver or gold in the ground again. What is the intended location to search for these ores?

[acoustic reef]

Bismuth is in common biomes and mountains
Silver is within mountain biomes and everywhere as normal veins too
Gold is everywhere

[split pendant]

The guidebook for vein index is scuffed on new version

[acoustic reef]

How so?

[split pendant]

I'm using 4x UI scale with a 1440p monitor-- I have to have my cursor OVER the entry to click it

(like, clicking the thing above it clicks the thing below it)

[versed tinsel]

I looked around spawn in a much wider radius now. Flew to where the scanner found either gold or silver and looked for surface indicators. Silver spawns are quite rare, and indicator spawns even rarer. Gold seems decent, and workable.
On my 1st test world I couldn't find any silver at all in 1000+ blocks, but did find 1 vanadium spot and 1 gold spot.

Underlined notes are with indicators, non underlined are without

If the intend is to either pan for silver, randomly find it, or hunt mountains for it, then it's working as intended I would guess.
Is it communicated in the guidebook if ores have been moved to new "biome preferred" spawns?

[acoustic reef]

Yeah but it's not well communicated though

I think it says something like "Mountain biomes"

But you don't really know which biomes are a mountain

well you would know but the fact that you aren't sure is bad but we are making it better for next update

And yeah that's kinda the intention for silver

you can find it anywhere but it's rarer

[versed tinsel]

I think it's fine to move certain ores to "Biome preffered" to get people to travel more. But then it needs to be well communicated at least.

[acoustic reef]

but if you find a mountain you are 90% sure to find silver

[acoustic reef]

yeah that will be better with next update

I also would like to communicate it in the quests

Bismuth should be common in these biomes:

[versed tinsel]

Will test some more later on another new world seed. Overall seems like there are plenty ores to get started and into iron age without problems.
However silver/zinc are currently seeming to be "need to travel" or bottleneck materials

[acoustic reef]

You should find plenty of surface sphalerite but if you are unlucky you could not have some in the region you are

[versed tinsel]

I only found 3 small spots of bismuth, only 1 with indicators on 2nd world.
I found 2 small spots of bismuth, one with indicators on 1st world

[acoustic reef]

I may try to make it more common

[versed tinsel]

Can try to run through world 1, 2 and new 3 to look for sphalerite, but I didn't really find any when looking

[split pendant]

Making world-- chose default spawn location. Spawned at Z 2500. Surprisingly warm, actually.
Found Nickel and copper in under a minute while poking about.
Highlands biome, with a plains to my north. Shale is the underlying stone type!
Decided to head north to the plains to hunt for bismuth-- with nickel already accounted for, bismuth bronze becomes the obvious choice.
Found a normal cobaltite/garnierite vein in a ravine, as well as a vein containing hematite and magnetite.
I am currently unable to find bismuth.
Nickel seems overly plenty? May just be the biomes i'm in.

[acoustic reef]

damn

[versed tinsel]

I found many many veins of cobalitite and nickel on all both worlds. Atleast 3 veins within 500 blocks of spawn

[acoustic reef]

usually the way tfc ore vein works

if you find one vein of something

it's quite likely that you will find more around

[acoustic reef]

very weird bismuth should really be plenty in the normal biomes

[split pendant]

Also I am doing this on foot, (I gave myself blue steel toe boots tho) with no prospector

[acoustic reef]

great

that helps to see how early game would feel

[split pendant]

Found bismuth!

[acoustic reef]

was it long?

[split pendant]

Not terrible at all.

[acoustic reef]

yeah sounds good

[alpine igloo]

for reference, this is the improved emi page

[acoustic reef]

Would need to improve the Surface vein and Biomes part

[alpine igloo]

I think gamestar is working on making "mountain biomes" show a list when you hover over it

[acoustic reef]

Would be nice if we can have Surface vein with a tooltip that tells you "When a surface vein the Y Level is the range from the surface" or something

[alpine igloo]

yeah it still needs some work

imo instead of "y level" it should say "depth below surface"

[acoustic reef]

that would be ideal

But I guess we need to rework the ore tool

well

you need to rework the tool modern ore tool

[alpine igloo]

yeah ik lol

[split pendant]

I forgot that bismuth bronze is zinc, not nickel.

i happened upon casseterite while looking for zinc, lol. welp! there goes the plans of doing bismuth bronze

[alpine igloo]

[acoustic reef]

Maybe there is too much cassiterite lol

[copper moss]

let tin live!

[acoustic reef]

I could remove this vein

Or increase even more rarity

[split pendant]

Does "Hills" count as a mountain? Cause it was a surface tin vein

[acoustic reef]

Hmm no

I think it was a normal vein rather that a surface vein

[split pendant]

Ah yeah definitely normal now that i'm mining some of it

[versed walrus]

Will that also be repeated for volcanic biomes and such?

[fallow thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-gif-14770887436103544323

[alpine igloo]

you did it for the fluid veins right? if it's all working there then we can put it on the ore tabs too?

[fallow thunder]

Yeah I just didn’t know I was going to do that

[acoustic reef]

Every day is a new discovery

[alpine igloo]

doesn't have to be you! lol

[acoustic reef]

Eh not gonna be me

[alpine igloo]

I more meant like, your system to show biomes in a tooltip

it'll probably be me whenever I do the ore tool as well

[acoustic reef]

Btw Pyritie

Should I remove the normal tin vein

Especially because there is two of them

well the other one is only dry biomes

so it's fine

[alpine igloo]

is that new to your 0.12.2 one? I only see two deep tin veins

[acoustic reef]

Dunno

But not the deep one

a normal one

with indicators

I think that one could go

There is already tin a bit everywhere

Mountains, Sand areas and Dry Biomes

[alpine igloo]

oh you mean with the cass sand

[acoustic reef]

no

that one

[alpine igloo]

oh uh sure I guess

[acoustic reef]

That's the one Astraea just found while looking for zinc

I gonna put a sphalerite one to replace it

[split pendant]

tbf I wasn't even in the right stone type-- I was looking for a different stone type cause all I had so far was shale and chert

[acoustic reef]

Replaced it with that one

[grizzled mica]

That's something I didn't even comment on. Redstone is WAY easier to find

[acoustic reef]

It's less common on 0.12.2

Did you try the new ore gen?

[grizzled mica]

0.12.2, yes

[acoustic reef]

Damn and still too common

I reduced by a lot already

[alpine igloo]

lol

[grizzled mica]

Like half of my first continent is on .1 and the other half on .2

[alpine igloo]

is redstone still only granite? or is it more stone types

granite was already a pretty common stone type

[grizzled mica]

On .1 I found the most over basalt in volcanic regions

[acoustic reef]

Every Ign Intrusive

[alpine igloo]

ah no wonder lol

[split pendant]

I did happen across one redstone vein, but I didn't think much of it other than luck.

[grizzled mica]

The left region is on .1, the right on .2

These are just the stuff that I bothered marking and weren't already automatically marked on blaze map

Somewhat off topic but I kinda want blazemap to be the map for the pack, it's so good but I understand that it'll take more work to be fully implemented to automatically mark the GT ores and have the new grasses show up on the ecologic map

[acoustic reef]

yeah the mod is never fully complete

I would prefer to have BlazeMap with a TFG compatibility that worldgen viewer hidden behind op that feels cheaty

but that seems like a lot of work

[split pendant]

So, assuming with the change for zinc and tin-- I'd say up to wrought iron is entirely fine. I've found like 5 veins of iron (dunno if surface or not, though!) so iron itself is also seeming fine (though I haven't actually mined any of the iron yet.)

One surface vein yielded a surprisingly large amount of ore for the stone age. idfk what people were sayign when complaining that they were too small (maybe that was just with the broken 12.0 people were saying that?)

[grizzled mica]

If they're anything like that malachite vein I mined then this is the yield you'll get after primitive ore processing

[acoustic reef]

the surface veins are really better that what people think yeah

[grizzled mica]

About 50-60 ingots per mostly dug out vein, that's already enough for TFC progression until you can handle the beneath for the real veins

[acoustic reef]

that's a lot of copper for the very early game

[grizzled mica]

And I settled right next to an exposed cassiterite vein so that's all the bronze I'll need to reach iron

[acoustic reef]

sand one?

[split pendant]

Yield from primitive ore processing on copper (a definitely very primitive aluminum millstone and an auto-casting setup)

[grizzled mica]

Cave

[acoustic reef]

oh

[split pendant]

Cassiterite melts into 144mb tin for some reason?

Bloomery materials done in...

1h30-ish, including time spent physically mining and searching.

[grizzled mica]

Nice, I spent a lot of time looking for my current home

[split pendant]

Tbf I'm not actually playing through it lol.

[grizzled mica]

And I see why you are noticing this but you're literally asking for a nerf to cassiterite

[alpine igloo]

I did change cassiterite so it only gives 1 ingot instead of 2 lol

[split pendant]

Yeah that's was really weird last I started lmao

[grizzled mica]

It still gives the same amount of metal as tin dust even though cassiterite is an oxide

[split pendant]

Ya? Oxides and sulfide minerals give 124(or something) mb, only pure stuff gives 144

[alpine igloo]

I mean I can change cassiterite to 129 or whatever mb but do you really want that?

[acoustic reef]

yeah

More forgotten half filled mold in a chest

[grizzled mica]

The part of me that wants consistency says yes, the part of me that wants a comfortable game says no

[split pendant]

I put them on the floor next to my forge or crucible so I don't forgor em

[acoustic reef]

smart

[urban dove]

if we talking Realism™ , where does the carbon in wrought iron come from when using an arc furnace to make it

[grizzled mica]

It does make the game more educational and engaging

[distant jasper]

Was garnierite changed too? Its NiO but melts into 144mb nickel

[acoustic reef]

[alpine igloo]

nah I haven't touched it

[distant jasper]

Weird

[alpine igloo]

https://github.com/TerraFirmaGreg-Team/Modpack-Modern/blob/458490b324f8afcac506c75900ac438dee9f8fa0/kubejs/startup_scripts/tfg/materials/material_modification.tfc.js?plain=1#L38C1-L38C125 anyway here's the code to change it if you want. That number at the very end (90, 80, etc) determines the % of an ingot that the dust will melt into

#1488096629063159908 ?

[acoustic reef]

oups

[split pendant]

Anyway I'm giving the ore changes up to wrought iron a "seems good!" seal of approval. Nickel seems way too plentiful. I found about 3 cobaltite/garnierite veins, and many of what appeared to be surface garnierite.

[acoustic reef]

Could you check these veins

Someone told me their spawn rate was quite low

[split pendant]

I gotta go to work now, but I can go hunting for em tonight.

[acoustic reef]

No worries thanks!

I will have a look myself too and removing all the others just to check these

[split pendant]

On the way, I found two realgar veins, one bismuth vein (despite being in a plains biome.) two spudomene veins, one Redstone, and one tricalcium phosphate.

[acoustic reef]

Bismuth is within plain biome

[split pendant]

Ya

[acoustic reef]

Bismuth is Mountain and Normal biomes

[split pendant]

Wait what

[acoustic reef]

?

[split pendant]

Is it plains or mountain and normal?

Or both

The guidebook said plains

[acoustic reef]

There is two different veins

plains is part of normal

[split pendant]

Ah ok

[versed tinsel]

Hey, back again with more feedback from my 2 worlds.
World #1
Garnerite is everywhere with indicators everytime. Bismuth is not as rare as I first thought, and there are plenty veins with indicators.
Scanner also finds plenty of gold in the under ground, a few of these have indicators.
There is lots and lots of Sphalerite, but NO VEINS have indicators. I can only "see" these because of the scanner.
There is perhaps 3 veins of silver, no surface indicators to be found. (Picture shows with indicators as "underlined" and without indicators without underline)

World #2
Garnerite is everywhere with indicators everytime. Bismuth is fine actually, plenty of veins all with indicators.
Again, good amount of gold with indicators.
There is lots and lots of Sphalerite, but ONLY 1 pure sphalerite - no sulfur or pyrite - has an indicator (circled). I can only "see" these because of the scanner, otherwise no Zinc for me.
(Picture again shows with indicators as "underlined" and without indicators without underline)

[acoustic reef]

I have a new build with more zinc

I will upload it

[versed tinsel]

So overall testing for a few hours now on 2 worlds, I only think Silver and Sphalerite are too hard to find without a scanner.
Silver could be remedied if it's easy to find in mountains, and you have sand deposits to carry you along. No big deal here.
But Zinc is needed for colored Steel, so it limits your ability to upgrade your prospecting pick somewhat and thus find more materials.

There are plenty of the veins, just no indicators to guide you

[acoustic reef]

Yeah if you are unlucky with silver on normal deposits you will definitely find some within a mountain biome

It's very unlikely to not have a mountain biome close by somewhere

else well you can go the other bronze

[versed tinsel]

Also garnerite vein seems far to common on both worlds. Considering cobaltite and the other materials in the most common vein are dead weight and (toxic??) then I would suggest to turn down the spawn weights on this ever so slightly

[acoustic reef]

which vein ?

Normal Garnierite Nickel Cobaltite?

[acoustic reef]

Looks like that one yeah

[versed tinsel]

This vein is litterally everywhere. I guarantee if you reverted the change to the show indicators on the world map again, it would all glow blue

[acoustic reef]

it may be too common yeah

it's ass common as the hematite/yellow_limonite

Silver is very common as a normal vein (surface indicator) but in Ign Extrusive/Intrusive

and I guess you are in a sedimentary

[versed tinsel]

All taken within the marked square

It really doesn't need to be as common, as Nickel is the only useful thing there, with you need tiny amounts off until colored steels mass production

[buoyant moth]

I can second the garnierite being too common I’ve been seeing it everywhere as an indicator

[versed tinsel]

Especially considering the size of the veins, you will never run out of Nickel

[alpine igloo]

if zinc rarity is an issue, maybe the indicator height could be increased? like if there's plenty of normal veins but just not enough surface ones or something

[acoustic reef]

there is more zinc now

I need to push the new veins

Gonna do that in an hour

[safe ferry]

I've been doing my own testing on a new world and strangely enough I feel like I'm the only one without a zinc issue lol, my spawn area was full of it

[acoustic reef]

Surface vein I guess?

[safe ferry]

correct, all surface veins

[acoustic reef]

yeah I think they just are in a bad geological region for zinc

but as it's needed really early game the new vein is within sedimentary that is more common

[safe ferry]

maybe add the surface vein to more rock types? only igneous rocks does mean you can get screwed depending on that front

[acoustic reef]

I'm really curious about mountain veins generation

[versed tinsel]

Overall feels like good changes (if sphalerite indicators is fixed - need Zinc and Sulfur before Steam for sure), there were far too many indicators spread around before for all vein types. You could get through copper and bronze age on just indicator findings before, not any more. The change to remove indicators from the map might however be the most impactful one and the one I like the most, forces your to look at your game rather than your map.

I like the idea of some veins being more common in certain rock types and biomes, as long as it is documented well so players can find the information and not feel lost. It is one of the core things about regular TFC I like. Just from knowing which rock type you are standing on, you know what type of ores you can find. It makes early mounts and transport equipment be valuable and actually makes you care about upgrading prospector through tiers.

[acoustic reef]

these

[safe ferry]

from my testing, high coal overpowered all the other veins and made prospecting for them really hard, some even spawned overlapping coal veins. idk if there is a way to make veins have a minimum spawn distance from other veins or not but that would def be useful

[versed tinsel]

But personally I hope you won't "force" players to find veins through caving. Caving is not good gameplay with TFC mechanics. Digging out a mineshaft and establishing a new mine on a set location with all the needed tools ready in advance - that is peak TFC and the most relaxing part of the TFG early game. I probably will never engage more with caves that I have too - which I hope is the minimal amount

[acoustic reef]

Graphite is the only one

there is still the Beneath though

[acoustic reef]

Hmmm I can't do that

but I can reduce coal

Hopefully we can do something like that for the ore veins

[safe ferry]

rather than reduce the size maybe make the super large coal veins down towards y=50 or something? allows the other mountain veins to generate a bit more freely?

[acoustic reef]

it could be under the mountain yeah

[safe ferry]

besides that I do like the mountain veins, there was a good amount of stuff exposed on the sides which is always a fun challenge to mine

[versed tinsel]

Made a third world just to test for sphalerite.
The pure sphalerite vein spawned 4 times within 7 chunks of spawn all with indicators present.
I think the "problem vein" is the sphalerite, sulfur, pyrite vein. Since sulfur is also needed to progress, I would think giving just this one vein indicators on the surface would remedy the problem.

[split pendant]

Glad to know nickel being ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE wasn't just me lmao

[acoustic reef]

no the vein you are speaking about is a deep vein

[versed tinsel]

Okay, so both sulfur and sphalerite pure veins cannot spawn in non-ing rocks? New world is Rhyolite, and these veins are plenty, no problems. But the first two worlds are sedementary, and these 2 pure vein types no not exist

[acoustic reef]

Yeah

What you call pure vein is surface vein

Sulfur doesn’t exist as surface veins

To find the big sulfur veins you need to go near lava or in volcanic biomes

[versed tinsel]

Anyway then, either add an indicator to the "deep" vein, or make sphalerite vein spawnable in sedementary as well, otherwise sedementary spawns are just "walk until you are out of this rock type" spawns

[acoustic reef]

I told you already many times 😂

I already fixed it

[versed tinsel]

Hope I provided some valuable feedback 🙂

[acoustic reef]

Yeah thanks a lot!

I will push the changes to the veins soon

[split pendant]

Should I start over again or just continue on pretending I'm using bismuth bronze instead?

(actual question)

[acoustic reef]

Ah!

Well it depends

But I think your tin is coming from a vein I removed

[split pendant]

It is definitely

So that means I'd need to go find a "real" tin vein later

[acoustic reef]

Yeah should still be quite easy

It spawns everywhere

[safe ferry]

my opinion on the bronze debate:
add 2 new surface veins, gold + silver and zinc + bismuth
regular bronze is so much easier to get simply because you only need to find 2 ores and the others you need to find 3. combining the alternative bronzes into 2 veins as well could make them more desireable

[acoustic reef]

Sand/Dry Biomes/Mountains

[acoustic reef]

Not a bad idea I will see how it goes with the changes

[split pendant]

With the changes, I would've just been successful in my attempt at finding zinc and had bismuth bronze instead of normal

[alpine igloo]

hrmmm not sure how to feel about this lol

[acoustic reef]

Bismuth and Zinc already spawn in the same rocks

And same thing for gold and silver

[opal bridge]

I mean, I struggled to locate tin in 0.11.x at the start, but couldn't seem to go 5 chunks without stumbling upon Black Bronze component veins

[acoustic reef]

So usually it shouldn’t be an issue

[opal bridge]

I think it's more a luck of the draw issue, personally.

[split pendant]

That's bc gold used to be WAY too common

Unless you were somehow finding ungodly amounts of silver

[safe ferry]

I personally always used bismuth bronze in the older versions cause bismuth was everywhere and also literally useless lol, now it actually has a use (woods metal) and is a lot rarer

[acoustic reef]

And silver was extremely rare

[opal bridge]

I found a Bi/Ag/Pb vein like, 200 blocks from base lol

[acoustic reef]

Bismuth is pretty common in some biomes and mountains

[opal bridge]

That vein, while a royal PITA to mine, was very dense. Held us on all our silver needs until mid-LV.

[random pendant]

I did find Silver veins but it was through Galena ore indicators

interesting enough for me, I rarely mined gold. I usually get gold dust from washing with Chemical Bath in Mercury. I did it with Magnetite / Chalcopyrite / Copper and Silver

[opal bridge]

We pretty much exclusively used plain ol' water up until recently, and even then only select ores get treated. The byproducts are rarely worth the extra cost and effort for most of them.

[random pendant]

i find it weird that people struggled to find tin in 0.11, I never had an issue finding tin

i guess it is because I travel 6000 blocks to my desired location

[opal bridge]

We had to travel 15k from spawn to find a landmass that was in the right climate

[random pendant]

obvious it is based on the seed

[opal bridge]

And yeah we couldn't seem to locate a single tin vein, all our tin for a good bit came from miscellaneous pots and absolutely teeny tin veins (Think like, 20-40 ores total, not even 100% of which were tin)

Took an age to find a proper sized vein, and it was a legit cause for celebration because it took just SO LONG to find one.

[random pendant]

sounds like you guys just had a bad seed

[opal bridge]

Entirely possible, though the region we lived in was almost exclusively marble, limestone and basalt at the surface, which might've played a role.

[random pendant]

if the overworld fails to produce the ore, you will actually have better luck in the Beneath

Beneath does not disappoint

[acoustic reef]

Beneath may become a whole lot more like the Moon or Mars

[random pendant]

I love the Beneath exatcly how it is now haha

[acoustic reef]

Change is good

[random pendant]

or the saying, do not try to fix something that is not broken

[acoustic reef]

Ahah if we followed that we would do nothing

[random pendant]

well IV needs love

[acoustic reef]

Is it broken?

[random pendant]

yeah, it is broken since you guys made EV better

[split pendant]

[acoustic reef]

So let us do everything be better lol

[random pendant]

on a serious note, I am excited to see what you guys will bring to the table when you release the IV improvement patch. EV is hands down my favourite age

[split pendant]

Also the indicators changes are fantastic. Having indicators only for things that are relevant before LV is very very good. When I first started, I had to mark everything, despite really not knowing what was even good or worthwhile at all

[acoustic reef]

Thanks that's really a big part of the reason for this change

[random pendant]

I think that is a common minecraft player OCD issue

[acoustic reef]

I think it will make the game way more smooth for new players

[split pendant]

And I'd have markers for stuff like??? Thorium?? While I'm out here mining copper 😭

The only one I've found so far that's relevant only after lv is Realgar, but honestly that's Good because being able to find it early can be a huge help

[acoustic reef]

Yeah it's a way to notice the player that it may become important

[opal bridge]

The fact I spent hours searching for Realgar just for one of my basemates to walk across our bridge and find it in 5 minutes still haunts me

[safe ferry]

If you don't mind me sharing a crazy idea I had with surface veins, what if they were:
about 100 blocks in size
significantly more dense (like 70% dense)
made out of ore deposits
at their current balancing, ore deposits give 0.725 dust of their respective type and 0.1 pyrite dust whereas regular ores give 1.166 dust. The better vein density is balanced out by each ore deposit being worth about 60% of a regular ore.
changing surface veins to ore deposits also encourages early ore processing via pans or sluices and also naturally shows how processing ores = good (the bonus pyrite dust)
while these surface veins would be much easier and much more worth it to mine later on compared to the current surface veins, they would naturally be made less and less useful as the player progresses due to the lack of complex ore processing (E.X. encased fan/centrifuge)
if this is a stupid idea that's fine, just wanted to throw this idea out just in case someone else agrees with me lol

[acoustic reef]

Some proposed this idea and i think it's a good one

It's a just a bit of work to implement

we may do it at one point idk

[split pendant]

I kinda wanna try out sluicing gold and silver for black bronze if I manage to find a river, it could be a legitimately compelling option if the deposits are large enough for it....

I was thinking that it's hard to make black bronze a decent option, but if that's good enough, the convenience of only having to search a narrow area in one location makes that actually sounds pretty nice.

[safe ferry]

if you happen to spawn near a lake, ore deposits are pretty common there
you also don't have to deal with the river current pushing you as well

[split pendant]

This, like, works? It's not terribly hard either.

The bigger thing is that it's gonna be a hard sell to players to even bother with. It's a rather big hassle, and while the yields are sufficient they're low enough where needing to go out for more is a realistic concern

[split pendant]

idk i'm kinda just flipflopping between "the vein sizes are fine" and "they're too small overall" tbh!!!

??????? hello robot

[safe ferry]

it really depends on how the the Beneath rework goes tbh

[split pendant]

oh no i'm talking about the the gold/silver gravel deposits lol

[safe ferry]

oh fair enough lol

[split pendant]

Wasn't this supposed to be removed? :p

Started a new world because idk felt like it

[hollow zodiac]

I proposed something similar a while back 🙂

I also feel vendicated for zinc being too rare 😄

[hollow zodiac]

i don't trust the field guide, usually EMI is more accurate

[distant jasper]

yeah it was removed in generation, probably just forgot the field guide, there shouldn't be cassiterite in the realgar veins anymore

[split pendant]

Ahhh OK

Iunno what it is then, it's got chalcopyrite and zeolite

[acoustic reef]

There is a copper tin vein I think

but it's a deep vein

[split pendant]

Huh, I had surface indicators for it

[acoustic reef]

only 15 y

look at the stats

[split pendant]

to he honest, idk how that stat actually works?

[distant jasper]

if mentioned otherwise, its the actual y level range where it can spawn

the surface veins are different, they work like if it says -15 to -20, it means 15-20 blocks down from the surface iirc

[safe ferry]

atm JEI and the guidebook are super bugged and are missing veins or have incorrect data so I wouldn't trust that all that much tbh

[alpine igloo]

the same tool we use to put the ore blocks in the world also generates the field guide and emi pages, so are you sure about that?

[acoustic reef]

I may hae forget to run the language merger

I would think it's good though

[split pendant]

(it was chalco/zeolite/realgar btw, so it's fine)

[safe ferry]

I'm a little confident on that

I could try making a new instance to see if it was a bad install

[alpine igloo]

this is the one I see, though I'm using 0.12.1's ore data

[safe ferry]

I'm using the 0.12.2 ore data so it may be broken there

all moon and beneath (minus anthracite) veins are also missing

[alpine igloo]

ah, yeah probably

tom's files are a bit of a bodge just for testing

[safe ferry]

understandable

[split pendant]

Realgar may be too common?

[split pendant]

Realgar definitely too common. Cobaltite/Garnierite veins as well.

The chalcopyrite/zeolite/realgar veins are absolutely everywhere Even accounting for my bedrock being largely sedimentary

[random pendant]

it looks common but the amounts are very low

[split pendant]

Considering you only really need one realgar vein in your playthrough, that's fine. After you get your first diodes, you'll have an EBF and can pull arsenic from cobaltite byproduct from mining nickel.

[wanton raptor]

just saw in #📰│modern-news

are the bonuses for gravel deposits getting differentiated instead of all of them having a chance for pyrite?

[alpine igloo]

yeah, I looked at the original tfc loot tables a bit more closely lol

[acoustic reef]

For anyone available to test the new ore gens you need to download this zip
https://github.com/TomPlop/Modpack-Modern/archive/refs/heads/0.12.2-worldgen-veins.zip
delete the kubejs file in your instance and copy the one in this zip

Delete the Terrafirmagreg core mod in your mod folder
and replace it with this one
then create a new world in creative
and browse to test veins

[alpine totem]

compatible with 0.12.1 saves?

[acoustic reef]

On the paper yeah but you need to generate new chunks to test

If you don't want to test just wait for next release

[random pendant]

This is only ore, right, you didnt do any fluid gen changes with this one too

[acoustic reef]

fluid veins are in an other branch yeah

[split pendant]

Anything in particular to be on the lookout for?

[acoustic reef]

I tweaked some values regarding mountain veins
Redstone surface indicators should be rarer
Tin should be a bit harder to find
Zinc should be easier to find
Bismuth is more common in the mountain