that i know they are working to solve
#Peregrine Mission 1 | Vulcan Cert-1
radiant shoal
Are you talking about the psyche IRB report?
solemn fog
i am so hyped for MSR but that price tag is inexcusable
solemn fog
Are you talking about the psyche IRB report?
yeah
i will admit to not knowing much abt how jpl runs things
and im naturally biased against it because im an apl stan lmao
they’ve done great things but they’ve definitely lost a bit of urgency lately
radiant shoal
The report that bent over backwards to attribute Maxar's poor performance to JPL, despite the same issues with Maxar existing on OSAM-1 (as documented by the OIG report) and none of those same "systemic issues" existing on MSL, Europa Clipper, or NEO Surveyor
solemn fog
i will admit to not reading the report very closely
radiant shoal
JPL consistently delivers spacecraft that exceed mission requirements and return far more value to the taxpayer than expected
solemn fog
true
radiant shoal
i will admit to not reading the report very closely
You really should read the report, then read the OSAM-1 OIG report
solemn fog
yeah i need to catch up on these things in general
i’ve just been all in on job training and college apps lately i have had no time to read reports
radiant shoal
And see the similarities, except the OIG correctly assigns fault while the Psyche IRB, in my opinion, does it's best to not offend anyone other than JPL
solemn fog
it did seem to be throwing JPL under the bus a bit from what I remember
radiant shoal
100%, especially weird when none of the "systemic issues" are present on any other JPL flight program
solemn fog
the language of the report is def a bit misleading
just pulled up the IRB yeahhhhhhh idk what i was on the first time around
graceful glen
I will tolerate no JPL slander here 
solemn fog
i will still shit on jpl out of principle because i am morally obligated to by my employer : )
APL SWEEEEEEEEEP
radiant shoal
Also it's not correct to claim that the US has no institutional knowledge of how to go to and land on the Moon when we literally have done it multiple times in the last two decades
runic kestrel
Yeah no JPL are literal wizards
solemn fog
yeah
but the planetary budget crunch has pissed off civil a lot lately
that’s not even really a JPL problem
but MSR is a big part of that
radiant shoal
GRAIL
LADEE
LCROSS
LRO
CAPSTONE
JPL also provided all nav support for KPLO and Chandrayaan
solemn fog
god i hope MSR can get itself in gear
radiant shoal
Chandrayaan wouldn't have landed on the moon without JPL nearly flying the vehicle for ISO, but no, we've lost all institutional knowledge
solemn fog
i don’t think the US has lost institutional knowledge
it’s just cmrc opps have none of it yet in general
radiant shoal
JPL is the only competent deep space navigation organization on the planet
solemn fog
cmrc has to learn it all for the first time
we will be seeing quite a few more craters before CLPS starts showing results
radiant shoal
Massive difference between "the US doesn't have this capability" and "startups with no flight experience don't have this capability"
graceful glen
Is JPL building the Sample Return Lander and its MAV launching system?
solemn fog
think the MAV is Marshall SFS
radiant shoal
Marshall acting as prime contractor, JPL managing the entire project
graceful glen
God I hope they put video cams on at least the SRL and maybe the MAV
radiant shoal
Oh certainly they will
graceful glen
They should strap a GoPro to one of the helicopters so we can get some epic drone shots
radiant shoal
There is a camera on ingenuity, it's just limited due to size/power
graceful glen
yea that's why we need one optimized for video
I'm assuming they're also gonna have Percy watch the launch if she's able to
radiant shoal
MRO would be tasked as well
graceful glen
yeeeee
radiant shoal
Just like with Percy's landing
runic kestrel
JPL is the only competent deep space navigation organization *on the planet*
CNSA also seems pretty competent at planetary programs but yeah, not on the same level as JPL.
radiant shoal
It's like pitting a high school team against the pros
JPL are the world leaders in what they do, full stop
sleek stratus
woah what have i started fuck 😂
i mean for the jpl thing i was more referring to psyche delays and the cascading cancellations/reshufflings that happened as a result
graceful glen
It is pretty impressive that CNSA managed to succeed at a Mars orbiter, lander, and rover all on their first interplanetary mission
sleek stratus
they seem good at their job but also overstretched to the point where that is not as sharp of an edge
radiant shoal
Psyche - Delayed because Maxar fucked up flight software
*JPL is so awful how could they do this
solemn fog
woah what have i started fuck 😂
clearly i need to stop sharing my bad takes
graceful glen
I'm guessing it's not possible for them to somehow dump the oxidizer from the ruptured tank in order to preserve the remaining fuel?
I suppose this isn't a rocket stage so there wouldn't be much of a reason to build in that capability...
graceful glen
Aren't there two oxidizer tanks?
radiant shoal
Even if there are:
- They don't have enough prop to make it to the moon much less land
- The vent is causing a constant thrust perturbation, causing their RCS thrusters to have to continuously fire to offset the moment. The current lifetime limiter on the spacecraft is RCS propellant
graceful glen
Wait so even if the oxidizer in the damaged tank is depleted would the leak still be disturbing the lander's orientation due to like pressure differences or something?
radiant shoal
The last time a similar failure mode happened (stuck open valve in a thruster), the vent didn't stop until the spacecraft lost power from tumbling, causing the heaters to die, which caused the propellant to freeze
Even if the oxidizer tank is empty, the valve that failed is in the helium pressurant line, so helium is going to keep flowing until it's gone
I'm unsure whether oxidizer is still leaking, helium is still leaking, or both. But the fact that they have a set lifetime remaining tells me that the vehicle is still having to offset a vent with RCS, and once the RCS fails they will lose attitude control and not be able to point the solar panels at the sun
That's the situation as I understand it
radiant shoal
Yeah, she gonna die
Very unfortunate, hate to see hard work go down the drain like that
graceful glen
VIPER's schedule has just gone down the drain hasn't it
radiant shoal
More like NASA SMA is about to get real cozy with Astrobotic
I think if IM also fails, that'll be the end of the "independent commercial nature" of CLPS
graceful glen
The Griffin mission is gonna be tense af
Astrobotic can't do a second attempt with another lander prior to Griffin so a very valuable payload is gonna be relying on an unproven company to get it safely to the Moon
primal sierra
edgy acorn
narrow holly
oak matrix
https://youtu.be/Pqv7NedI0oI
Nice
dim osprey
Looks like Peregrine might end up in heliocentric orbit. Error bars still big though, more observations during close approach next week, when it is also out of fuel so no more trajectory change, can improve the estimate.
https://fxtwitter.com/this_is_tckb/status/1745207579364499578
radiant shoal
I'd be surprised if it doesn't end up heliocentric
carmine sleet
Looks like Peregrine might end up in heliocentric orbit. Error bars still big th...
this makes a lot of sense
if the spacecraft is still functional hopefully some good science can keep coming out of it
wicked adder
https://fxtwitter.com/tony873004/status/1745274757417931128
Better than nothing
lyric axle
transferring momentum to surface material
radiant shoal
If all they're doing is propagating forward ephemerides in time then I wouldn't put much stock in it
wicked adder
It would be crazy if it just skims the moon like 1 meter
Like barely misses
Incredibly unlikely but it would be cool
But we wouldn’t know if it did because we wouldn’t have any communication
radiant shoal
Because of the comms blackout, even the spacecraft team doesn't actually know what's happening to the trajectory right now. They could be firing RCS jets in wild directions and they won't know until they fail to acquire signal
lilac tide
Imagine they come out the blackout and the leak magically stops
Leaving them with enough fuel to enter lunar orbit
radiant shoal
They used the "fix repairable parts" console command
wicked adder
They opened the cheat menu and clicked “infinite fuel”
sleek stratus
https://fxtwitter.com/tony873004/status/1745274757417931128
ranger block iv baby WOO
wicked adder
https://vxtwitter.com/astrobotic/status/1745460345207181624
https://vxtwitter.com/astrobotic/status/1745460455030829524
It’s still alive somehow
short dirge
https://vxtwitter.com/astrobotic/status/1745460345207181624
https://vxtwitter.co...
lol why does a soda can need power
silver sierra
https://vxtwitter.com/astrobotic/status/1745460345207181624
https://vxtwitter.co...
when the update is so uplifting they changed the font
wicked adder
when the update is so uplifting they changed the font
It’s a better font in my opinion
silver sierra
definitely is
warm valley
It’s still alive somehow
Just like Astra 
wicked adder
~~Just like Astra~~ <:TrollPolite:901878835258200114>
It’s genuinely shocking they’re still alive
lyric axle
It’s a better font in my opinion
the times new roman ass thing sucked yes
graceful glen
graceful glen
spring lichen
dim osprey
They keep increasing the remaining time further xD
graceful glen
eventually it's gonna have more propellant than it started with
When was the original orbit insertion burn supposed to happen?
quartz wharf
A couple of weeks after launch
dim osprey
Jan 23rd
quartz wharf
See, 8+15=23 heh
oak matrix
https://vxtwitter.com/astrobotic/status/1745851286929494178?s=20
LES FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
oak matrix
See, 8+15=23 heh
nah 8+15=1
just think abt it for a sec
if you had 8 drops of water, and you add 15 drops of water, youd get one puddle of water if you added all of them, not 23
youd end up with one body of water
so it equals 1
wake up sheepl
narrow holly
runic kestrel
NGL this has actually increased my respect for Astrobotic by a significant amount overall
They fucked up on their first try (as most lunar attempts have), but they've salvaged it far better than they should have been able to and have been open about what's happening through the whole experience
sleek stratus
yeh this wasnt your typical "startup fails at moon" incident it feels
good on them
workable future ahead
oak matrix
They fucked up on their first try (as most lunar attempts have), but they've sal...
Also the fact that they've been providing instead of "We will investigate this", they've been providing legitimate on the missions, even after the leak, they've been updating us eit the payloads onboard, and the lander status itself, and I haven't seen any private company, especially on a lander keep up the updates like that, massive respect to astrobotics for that too
obtuse osprey
Also the fact that they've been providing instead of "We will investigate this",...
I hope this trend of private aerospace companies being more open continues
it seems more companies are being more open with their development and failures, outside of DOD payloads
Compared to government agencies who are more reluctant to announce failures or problems
radiant shoal
robust warren
lmao
oak matrix
Lmfao
fossil quiver
The recommendation we have received is to let the spacecraft burn up during re-entry in Earth’s atmosphere. Since this is a commercial mission, the final decision of Peregrine’s final flight path is in our hands. Ultimately, we must balance our own desire to extend Peregrine’s life, operate payloads, and learn more about the spacecraft, with the risk that our damaged spacecraft could cause a problem in cislunar space. As such, we have made the difficult decision to maintain the current spacecraft’s trajectory to re-enter the Earth’s atmosphere. By responsibly ending Peregrine’s mission, we are doing our part to preserve the future of cislunar space for all.
silver sierra
peregrine survives reentry and makes a smooth touchdown
graceful glen
Peregrine RTLS
radiant shoal
We now believe that Peregrine is boarding a second Vulcan to launch to the moon. This is a significant improvement from our previous estimate of burning up in the atmosphere
graceful glen
I wonder if we'll see any publications talk about Astrobotic's handling of this issue from a PR standpoint
Out of all of the failures I've watched this one feels very unique in regards to how they saved face even though the mission was doomed almost immediately
wicked adder
Out of all of the failures I've watched this one feels very unique in regards to...
It’s also incredible it’s lasted as long as it has since they originally predicted only 40 hours of life after the leak
sleek stratus
peregrine will redirect to minmus and refuel trust
edgy acorn
Peregrine will enter LEO and wait for fixing & refuelling by an upcoming Axiom mission
fossil quiver
Endeavour will lift off from California to service it
tight ridge
Out of all of the failures I've watched this one feels very unique in regards to...
It's kinda crazy how open they've been with everything
And how it's kinda led to positive pr
edgy acorn
Being open and transparent is almost always positive
tight ridge
Hopefully more spaceflight companies learn from this and we begin to see more openness in the future
robust warren
glasnost
tight ridge
Especially as things become investor based and you want your company to have the best image possible in the public eye
fossil quiver
Being open and transparent is almost always positive
Open yes, transparent no
graceful glade
Its more open than transporter companies that lied about deployment successes but its not transparent until i see a public failure analysis report
carmine sleet
honestly at this point i'd be surprised if we didn't see one
topaz oxide
graceful glen
Update #19: "the propellant leak has reversed and fuel is now flowing back into the spacecraft"
silver sierra
they reverted to times new roman :(
wicked adder
they reverted to times new roman :(
Damn
grim sleet
That's how you know it's really serious
elder elbow
what about energia buran
robust warren
ill try draw now
ancient marten
I should pronounce ULA as yoo-lah
robust warren
its like one of my lecturers pronounces ln (as in natural log) as "lin"
@elder elbow
did it from memory so it might not be the most accurate render
elder elbow
ja
robust warren
do you approve
elder elbow
ja
robust warren
thanks
wicked adder
got bored so I drew the big 3
That is soooo goooood
robust warren
update
oak matrix
https://vxtwitter.com/astrobotic/status/1747764457164485088/
im sorry my imature mindset saw the sigma and i had too😭
dim osprey
https://vxtwitter.com/astrobotic/status/1747764457164485088/
Darn why would you target an area where nobody can see it smh
You don't get a lunar velocity reentry every day :(
ancient marten
You do get interplanetary velocity reentries every day in places with clear skies though I think
tight ridge
https://vxtwitter.com/astrobotic/status/1747764457164485088/
awesome that's 2500km off the coast of where I live
robust warren
Omg that’s soooooo amazing 😮
thanks :D
oak matrix
ETA to re-entry?
fossil quiver
like one hour
edgy acorn
elder elbow
edgy acorn
Peregrine truly was the best failure out of all the newspace moon landing attempts
wicked adder
narrow holly
https://fxtwitter.com/astrobotic/status/1748148186684735752
https://fxtwitter.com/astrobotic/status/1748149981263892664
silver sierra
rip to one of the most successful failure ever maybe
wicked adder
It was the most successful of all failures
robust warren
I think Apollo 13 is probably the most successful failure ever
fossil quiver
rip to one of the most successful failure ever maybe
Uhm
They communicated well ansd managed to keep contact with the probe but it still was a soviet tier failure lmao
I hope people aren’t forgetting that no matter what they said it still failed just after separation and reentered on the next perigee
It’s still one of the most embarrassing failure a mission can have
fossil quiver
It doesn’t really change anything
Their inhability to make the main engine works well make it clear it couldn’t enter a lunar orbit
Just hope people understand it’s still the second shittiest recent lunar lander so far after otomenastuff last year
narrow holly
carmine sleet
Just hope people understand it’s still the second shittiest recent lunar lander...
You aren't wrong but this is a shitty perspective to be looking at this from
tbh
red zephyr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8r6gTFXH1k
15 min delay lol
red zephyr
You aren't wrong but this is a shitty perspective to be looking at this from
I mean it is realistic though
it's super impressive how they've managed to maximize things after an epic failure but it's still an epic failure, laugh at this user
carmine sleet
Idk, I don't appreciate the way some people view failures as some great evil. Obviously we don't want them to happen but they do and always will, oftentimes for completely unpredictable reasons. Astrobotic has so far handled this perfectly.
I only consider failures to be "epic failure" level if
- Someone was seriously hurt or killed
- The failure is covered up and/or not learned from at all
hasty hemlock
Just hope people understand it’s still the second shittiest recent lunar lander...
And regarding that JAXA cubesat, even the team always thought that was a long shot, just worth trying lol
fossil quiver
You aren't wrong but this is a shitty perspective to be looking at this from
I agree
just hoping people don't get ideas that ,say, this was more succesful than Luna 25 because it was on the opposite end of the communication transparency spectrum lol
full charm
Yeah like the handling of this was superb but it literally did fail right off the LV... there work to be done lol
radiant shoal
Luna 25 was a significantly different failure mode
Stuck valve vs poorly written flight software are not comparable
full charm
Right, but considering how early this faliure was we have no idea if anything else would have happened even if the valve didn't fail
red zephyr
Lmfao
full charm
Obviously we don't know, I would like this to have been a one off freak accident but there's no way for us to know
fossil quiver
and at the end of the day both failed
radiant shoal
Astrobotic doing a miniscule "burn" and using that data to say the primary propulsion system was healthy outside of the valve was a choice
But the two landers prior had both failed due to improperly written, integrated, and qualified guidance and navigation systems and flight software. That seems to be major capability gap with these smaller startups
(and Russia lol)
Assembling an IRB is a very good step to take
hasty hemlock
ISRO might be a good example to study on
Chandrayaan-2 failed to land with problems on both coarse throttling of main engines and software design that can't handle deviations right. Took 4 years to re-try and they did nail Chandrayaan-3
radiant shoal
Thanks to some really critical help from JPL
red zephyr
it's surprisingly unknown/underappreciated how much work NASA does from the shadows tbh
not to say NASA is some bastion of competence, oftentimes they're idiots, and not to say you can't succeed without their help but def nice to be able to tap that expertise
radiant shoal
There's currently not a human rated system or an interplanetary/lunar mission or vehicle in the western world that hasn't leveraged extensive NASA consulting and expertise
fossil quiver
BepiColombo?
robust warren
BepiColombo?
human rated
nvm
didnt read the second half of that sentence
i swear nasa is in some way involved with bepi
fossil quiver
it's the one current or recent western interplanetary mission I can think of that didn't openly significantly involve NASA
exomars/JUICE/rosetta did at some point
radiant shoal
As far as I know JPL is providing nav support to BepiColumbo
fossil quiver
is it extensive?
radiant shoal
I'm unsure but I'd say likely not. Probably more of a V&V effort and I'm sure it's waning off as the mission goes along.
Pretty much anything that uses DSN is going to have NASA engineering support for at least some part of mission operations
fossil quiver
Thanks
radiant shoal
Even Artemis 1 had JPL nav V&V running in parallel with the Houston mission control teams
fossil quiver
I could find some JPL involvement in the testing of Bepicolombo's ion thrusters
oh well there's probably more
radiant shoal
Oh yes anything involving an ion thruster likely has support from either jpl or GRC, even if it's just using their testing facilities
thick tulip
will there ever be a peregrine mission 2
thick tulip
Right, but considering how early this faliure was we have no idea if anything el...
it’s a good sign that it continued to operate nominally through the rest of the flight though fwiw
narrow holly
graceful glen
I stumbled across a dogshit AI-generated video lmao
silver sierra
musk reacts…
wicked adder
Musk reacts? More like muskrat
edgy acorn
Musk reacts? More like muskrat
Elongated
fleet snow
I stumbled across a dogshit AI-generated video lmao
lmao my da watches so much of that stuff
thick tulip
💀💀💀💀
narrow holly
narrow holly
I was not aware of this ULA website where you can download some resources from its facilities that include lists of Hotels and Restaurants.
Interesting
wicked adder
Whoa really? Awesome
hasty hemlock
I was not aware of this ULA website where you can download some resources from i...
Interesting
BTW I was unaware they still use the Harlingen facility (it used to make 4.2 m diameter Atlas fairings) - that guide can actually be used for Boca Chica visits as I knew that there are actually more flights going to Harlingen from other places of the US than into Brownsville
warm valley
Interesting
BTW I was unaware they still use the Harlingen facility (it used to ...
Chad ULA hospitality vs "tf who r u dude" SpX
narrow holly
Interesting
BTW I was unaware they still use the Harlingen facility (it used to ...
Information is at the bottom of this page
https://www.ulalaunch.com/contact-ula
About Harlingen, Texas:
https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/visitor-guides/ula_harlingen_visitor_guide.pdf
narrow holly
I don't know why I passed the information to this channel, but hey, it's not bad.
lilac tide
Chad ULA hospitality vs "tf who r u dude" SpX <:TrollPolite:901878835258200114>
Southern hospitality
wicked adder
On the restaurant guide for the cape, there’s one called Rising Tide, and I 100% recommend it. It’s sooo good. A little pricier, but really good. I think the inspiration 4 crew ate there before launch. ||(Trump ate there too but no one cares about that)||
thick tulip
Interesting
BTW I was unaware they still use the Harlingen facility (it used to ...
harlingen isn’t that far either
that’s where i stayed
p sure i stayed at the residence inn next to the bass pro shop
ancient marten
the pyramid?
indigo jungle
Interesting
BTW I was unaware they still use the Harlingen facility (it used to ...
The mega cringe Harlingen
Just another case of US stealing stuff
rotund lynx
Wrong chat my bad
edgy acorn
chat
elder elbow
chat
wicked adder
chat
edgy acorn
why still open
wicked adder
Why not still open 
elder elbow
ja
edgy acorn
chat
wicked adder
chat
narrow holly
Peregrine Mission 1 | Vulcan Cert-1
manic root
Reply so that I can find these again
carmine sleet
Helium valve failure confirmed
wicked adder
Rip
tight ridge
Helium valve failure confirmed
what is it with helium and lately
carmine sleet
Helium has always been a problem child tbf