next-move-discussion

[compact gale]

better moves for 24...Qxf4 are 25 Ng1 or Re3

[vagrant pelican]

We should start resigning now because when you have a chance, why would you not attack the queen?

Nh2 is leading and will win

[vagrant pelican]

Well, Ke2 is gaining

There are many people in the chat questioning the queen sac 🤦‍♂️

[dire wave]

really we should have just let it happen at this point maybe people would have learned something

[dim girder]

Ke2, Re8+, Kd2 (Kd1 and Kd3 are not possible - queen can take knight with check), Rd8, Ke2 (only move to save knight), Rxd4 and how you will prevent Re4 kicking king and taking knight by queen?

And if Nh2 is played instead of Ke2 (after Rd8), then Qg2 forks the knight and the pawn; the only move is Rh1, which saves the knight but leaves our king without any defense - and the f and d pawns will be captured within the next two moves.

[jovial magnet]

in that case the best move is not Rh1 but Nf1, we need to cover the d2 square to prevent the infiltration of the rook on the 2d rank

because that's just mate

still extremely lost

but it will be slower

[dim girder]

yeah...

[jovial magnet]

and more painfull

becuase we don't have a move, we will just let his pawns advance all the way down the board

fun

[dim girder]

anyway, Nh2 is winning, so it probably doesn’t matter - the knight will be captured within the next few moves.

[compact gale]

I think we lose the knight pretty fast in the Nh2 lines, but not in the Ke2 lines (I think)

not 100% sure

[jovial magnet]

man

our king is never going to move

[compact gale]

with 25 Nh2 leading Ke2 by 135 votes (which is still quite close), what will Gotham do?

Qh3+, I presume, to which we will play what?

Ke2, I presume

If 25 Ke2 pulls ahead, what will Gotham do?

Re8+, I presume

to which we will respond what?
26 Kd2, I presume

If 25 Nh2 Qh3+, we play 26 Ke2 (Kg1?! f3 27 Nxf3 Qxf3)
If 25 Ke2 Re8+, we play 26 Kd2

[vagrant atlas]

So, people are saving the night to let it be taken in the next move in h2 🤦‍♂️ do people not think past one move.

Ke2 is the best move. Even with the check on Re8 Gotham can’t take the knight. If he takes the night we take his rook. So he has to play Rd8 afterwards. Then if we want to save the knight we move it at that point. Probably to h2. Then Gotham needs to check and move the queen somewhere safe.

So dumb. People are. Duh save the knight, move to h2. While in fact Ke2 actually saves the knight.

[dim girder]

I don't think he’ll spend much time analyzing the next move - Qh3+ (after Nh2) is just the first idea and it’s winning. So he’ll probably play Qh3+, and then Kg1 will definitely follow (which I actually think is better than Ke2, because after Kd2 he’d just exchange the rook (Re8+) and capture the knight, queen vs rook endgame, totaly lost...). Then f3, and hopefully Nf3, Qxf3, Re3.

It will be Kg1 for sure, just protect our knight. I don’t think the world has the capacity to either make sac or to refuse to take a sac.

[drifting kiln]

how is Nh2 winning what

[dim girder]

after c5, g4, gxh5 the Nh2 is not a suprise for me

[tender grove]

same way any of the other moves this game won

[compact gale]

For the record, I think gxh5 was by far the worst mistake/blunder in our game. Nh2 is at most an inaccuracy. g4 is a lesser mistake/blunder. c5 was a definite mistake, but not a blunder.

[compact gale]

The World vote.

[tender grove]

I would count Bg5 and Bd3 as inaccuracies too

arguably b3 and h4 too

I think h4 is fine in this kind of format because it gave us a plan (even if the plan wasn’t great imo) even though obviously the plan failed because people saw a rook and wanted to attack it

[dim girder]

imho h4 was a good move, it was only a blunder if we think of it as having caused g4

or mistkae

[tender grove]

meh i still think it was the wrong plan

nothing was wrong with our kingside, we definitely didn’t need to push pawns

[pale rover]

🥀

[agile pawn]

Somebody can give me the current position... I got confused with #our-turn

[vagrant pelican]

Game link https://www.chess.com/votechess/game/386700

[compact gale]

Recommendations for our Move 26 response to GothamChess's expected reply to 25 Nh2 from discussion and polling on Chess.com's Official discussion forum:

If 25...Qh3+, we play 26 Ke2 abandoning our grim knight on the rim to run to the center. Trying to save the knight with 26 Kg1 fails to 26...f3! threatening mate, so we have to sac the knight to prevent that with 27 Nxf3 Qg4+ 28 Kf1 Qxf3.

You can join the Official Chess.com discussion forum to help discuss and analyze the game, vote in polls to select the best moves for The World Team, and promote them in the GothamChess game team chat! Link: https://go.chess.com/PlayGothamDiscord

---

Recommendation about to be posted ^^^

[agile pawn]

Thanks

Bruh we are cooked

Sad sad sad

[inner iron]

1153 votes for what we didn't recommend Kg1.... 258 votes in 2nd place for Ke2.... 82% vs 18%

[crude gull]

I know that nobody cares but I’ll be voting for “resign” from now on

I can see how we are losing, so there’s no point continuing for me

If anyone doesn’t see it, though, it could be worth to keep playing for them

[humble horizon]

Same. Apologies for my inactivity, but this is what I will be doing as well

[compact gale]

Going to continue with recommendations for a while. I think we might be able to resist checkmate for another 30 moves.

---

If 26 Kg1 f3, we play 27 Nxf3 to prevent checkmate with Qg2#. Our knight dies a noble death taking an enemy pawn with them.

---

How does that sound for next recommendation?

[compact gale]

I'm tempted to do a poll or two for how long we think before we are checkmated? Practically speaking given the present circumstances, and theoretically assuming perfect play by both sides?

Another poll or 3 for what is our estimate for probability of a draw, win by Gotham, win by us?

[tender grove]

with how the world has played id be surprised if it lasted 20 more moves

[jovial magnet]

Rab1 is a sensible choice

[compact gale]

@jovial magnet It is an anti-candidate designed to get mated quickly. We are recommending for the target audience of players who want to play this out further. A significant portion of The World would not be able to win with this position if we traded places with Gotham.

You and I are not the target audience.

[jovial magnet]

hm, well, I recon it's going to end like this

if we want to make a recommendation to play it out further we can try to recommend kf1 and then some Rad1 Rd2 Re3 stuff

might work, some of them

kf1 idk

Rad1, defend pawn

Rd2 maybe not as much

Re3 would definitely be a favorite if the queen stays on f3 lol

if he goes straight for taking the knight, then we can recommend Re7 I think

or e3 actually

yeah e3

coz it attacks the queen

oh bou

boy

we can't play Re3 if he plays Qg4+ Qxf3 tho

because if we go to f1 and then Re3 he just skewers our rook lmao

or it could just be over really quick with like

don't wanna miss my chance to play Rab1 before the rook is gone

:c

actually

to play Rab1

we could go

b4

b5

Rab1

or b4 Rab1 b5

to get the rook to b2

XDD

I'm playing against the bot to see if I could beat the world on an engine and it literally played Rab1 5 moves in

[jovial magnet]

(like, me with the black pieces and the bot with white, in that position)

aight

doubt it would be much help at this point anyhow, it lost to me in 30 moves and I'm definitely not good at chess :v

[silent cloak]

I'm afraid if Nf1 wins the 27th vote

[compact gale]

checkmate?

[jovial magnet]

8 moves to trade a rook, 10 more to take all the pawns, then take the queen with the rook regardless of if it is defended and push p

idk if we would trade rooks that fast, probably get checkmated first

[jovial magnet]

or do this

[jovial magnet]

or Re3 because his pawn apparently does not work if it's pinned

[silent cloak]

They'll say "NO MORE MEANINGLESS DUMB MOVES! WE LOST OUR QUEEN, BUT NOW ARE WE LOSING THE KNIGHT?!?! NO WAY! LET'S SAVE OUR KNIGHT BY Nf1!!" they really want to lose the king

still some idiots don't understand why we gave up the queen on purpose

[compact gale]

Yes, I've seen that too. Sad.

[jovial magnet]

welp, still lasted more than I would've against gotham

[silent cloak]

maybe not.

[compact gale]

I think we can avoid checkmate for quite a while with best defense. But we won't play the best defense even with our advice.

[silent cloak]

because you would not play a move like c5 and g4

[silent cloak]

the game might end before move 50

[jovial magnet]

oh no, I recommended g4 wayy before c5 hit the board

kingside attack go brr

[tender grove]

surely they have to be trolling

[jovial magnet]

I would not have traded the knights and the bishop tho

that was

weird

[silent cloak]

i hated 14. Bxf6

[jovial magnet]

guess we thought he couldn't checkmate us if there was no pieces

yeah, the world is not good at keeping tension

[compact gale]

Those pawns!

There so little and slow

[jovial magnet]

I do not get what you mean

[compact gale]

sarcasm

[jovial magnet]

language barrier go brrrr

[compact gale]

no pieces to mate

[jovial magnet]

ah

true

I actually wonder if given a trade of everything, the world could manage to take opposition on a simple pawn endgame

[silent cloak]

levy taught me that trading everything is what noobs do

[jovial magnet]

anyways

and being a very proficient noob

I will trade everything

endgame by move 12

[silent cloak]

bloodthirsty tyrant?

[tender grove]

just don’t try this against magnus

[compact gale]

gn!

[jovial magnet]

well not quite 12 moves but almost

[jovial magnet]

gn

[jovial magnet]

nah, I'm sure he doesn't know how to build a bridge

sorry for ping

[silent cloak]

trading everything is usually done in bullet games tho

[jovial magnet]

hm

[tender grove]

the ping wasn’t random so it’s fine

[jovial magnet]

I usually trade pieces for pawns and attack and lose on time but to each their own

[jovial magnet]

december 19th 2027 I will ping you randomly then hehe

[tender grove]

that also doesn’t sound very random

[crude gull]

Just so you know, it’s considered cheating by chess.com rules

I don’t necessarily agree with it, but that’s how it is

It doesn’t really matter at this point, just letting you know so you don’t do it in the future

[compact gale]

I think you could do the bot analysis from a similar position, but not the game position

[compact gale]

Recommendation for Move 27 just posted on chesscom

Our turn ends at 1908 UTC Wednesday (82 minutes from now)

[jovial magnet]

idk if I'm doing an analyisis, I'm playing against it

also, it's our turn now

he played 26... f3

wow

oh, oh boy

oh man

it's overtaken resign

h6+ is surprisingly low on the list

maybe we forgot pawns can check

ok so

our chance might rely on doubling the rooks

like assuming he suddenly starts playing like a 300 elo player

we can't really get the e rook of the first rank with out running into queen checks, he might even check us forcing us to f1 before taking the knight, as to make it impossible (Re-->e2,e3,e4,etc... --->Qh1+, Qxa1)

so we could play b4 Rab1 Rb3

or Rac1 Rc4

d5 Re4

or slow but still, Rad1 Rd2 Re3 Rde2

depends on where his queen stays

[inner iron]

The thing is.... in order to resign, you need 60% votes.... People that vote Re3.... do not.... (Voting Re3 would effectively end the game next move due to Qg2#....) That's why voting for Nxf3 is the ONLY good move.... (if you want to keep playing that is...)

[jovial magnet]

we might also just have to go do that immediatly to try and prevent Rh8 Rxh5 Rxh4 Rh1#

bruh even with the checkmate threat, only 5 people including myself, have remembered the existence of the other rook, the other 500 or so people that did not vote for Nxf3 have voted to move the e rook

[inner iron]

Nxf3 is not the ONLY move to avoid checkmate.... we COULD always play h6+ if we felt like giving him ANOTHER piece first.

[jovial magnet]

sharp as a marble you are

[vagrant pelican]

So we’re avoiding immediate checkmates very well. Seems like we like to get into a position in which next move is checkmate and then sacrifice to get out of it

What are the chances Gotham gets bored and makes a mistake? 😀

[compact gale]

Nxf3 (spell checko)

[vagrant pelican]

Since now it’s only about delaying the inevitable, would be better to exchange h5 with g6 if we get a chance

[compact gale]

How many players in chess.com could not win this from Gotham's side?

It is a long grind from here

The knight died nobly

[compact gale]

After 27 Nxf3, what will Gotham play?
27 .. Qxf3, Qg4+, ?

I think Qg4+ is more likely and we should play Kf1. Thoughts?

[jovial magnet]

yes

I think Qg4+ first would make more sense, going to h2 or h1 loses faster

but I think if he goes Qxf3 straight away he is most likely to go Qg4+ after anyways

pick up the passed pawn on d4

that's literally everything solved

for him

seing how it's going, if he plays Qxf3 straight away, Re3 is most likely to win the polls

I wonder if king f1 would even win after Qg4+ first

if we go h2 that would be really good for levy

[jovial magnet]

there's increased likelihood of Re3 ?? or Rf1 Rh8, Re1 Rxh5, Re3 Rxh4+ and mate

so maybe he would want to play Qg4+ first

in which case if we want the game to last more than 5 moves further, we would reallyyy have to push for Kf1

even if after Kf1 we hang Qh1+ winning the other rook, it would last longer than going to h2

[compact gale]

For the 27 Nxf3 Qxf3 poll, I think the 28 h6+ Kxh6 "pawn sac" actually help us by blocking the h-file for an extra tempo delaying the entry of his Rook to the h-file. Then we can play 29 Re3 more advantageously for us.

---

The poll is currently 6-4 in favor of 28 Re3, but I advocate that we hold on that idea for one move, by playing h6+ first, not just as a nuisance, but to get his king to temporarily block the h-file, then we play Re3 in a better position where his rook is delayed from entering our position on the h-file so fast as without h6+.

In the 27 Nxf3 Qg4+ poll, Kf1 has a big lead. Our King is more vulnerable on the h-file, so we are better off on the f-file.

[vagrant pelican]

I changed my vote to h6+

[jovial magnet]

650 people voted for h6+

we could recommend it for after Qxf3, whenever that lands

[vagrant pelican]

Can you please vote in our poll? Re3 is leading 7-5

[tender grove]

who tf is voting for Re3

just vote for resign atp

[compact gale]

The 27 Nxf3 Qxf3 poll is very close Re3 (7) over h6+ (6). I recommend we play h6+ as a better Re3, b/c it his Kxh6 will temporarily block the h-file. Then we play Re2 on move 28.

[jovial magnet]

wha which pawn where

poll*

[vagrant pelican]

#next-move-polls message

[jovial magnet]

ah that one

yeah I voted Re3

[compact gale]

Please consider when voting in the 27 Nxf3 Qxf3 poll (still open for 9 hours). Note that Gotham can make a move at any time since it is his turn.

[compact gale]

You can change your vote in our polls

[vagrant pelican]

Please change the vote in the polls so that we can update recommendation

Gotham has played Qxf3

[jovial magnet]

I think Re3 is likely to win

[vagrant pelican]

Ok never mind. h6+ is way low at 5th position

[vagrant pelican]

Yes

[jovial magnet]

aw man

hxg6???

what

they want to die faster

[compact gale]

h6+ now has our poll lead for 27...Qxf3

I would like to update our Recommendation.

to match

Any objections?

Recommendation for our Move 28 responses to GothamChess's expected reply to 27 Nxf3 from discussion and polling on Chess.com's Official discussion forum:

If 27...Qg4+, we play 28 Kf1 our King is safer on f-file; it will be more vulnerable on the h-file..

If 27...Qxf3, we play 28 h6+ to cause GothamChess's king to temporarily block the h-file and the entry of the Ra8 via the h-file. We intend to play 29 Re3 next.

You can join the Official Chess.com discussion forum to help discuss and analyze the game, vote in polls to select the best moves for The World Team, and promote them in the GothamChess game team chat! Link: https://go.chess.com/PlayGothamDiscord

---

Posted with 28 h6+ update.

[jovial magnet]

nope

hxg6 is worrying tho XD

the excuse is to "not lose another pawn"

but it just opens the h file further

[vagrant pelican]

We can remove Qg4+

[compact gale]

Yes

Can I get some support on chess.com from this Discord? h6+ is what we voted for.

[sharp magnet]

I voted for Kh2 ngl

[compact gale]

28 Kh2 loses quite quickly after 28 .. Qxf2+ and 29...Rh8

[sharp magnet]

yes

[compact gale]

Was that your intent?

[sharp magnet]

yes

[inner iron]

You are fired, coach!

lol j/k gosh.... tough room!

It's not like I'm telling Amy Schumer jokes or something!

[sharp magnet]

please no

[inner iron]

Coach... Your rehired, but only because your avatar reminded me of Frodo Baggins...

[sharp magnet]

can I get fired again

[inner iron]

NO! Your hired for as long as this game continues! no resigning early!

Levy said you can't resign as long as there's still a knight on the board... Wait... we just sacced our knight to stop checkmate! 😮

[sharp magnet]

fair

[compact gale]

Levy said don't resign, no qualifications, although it might have been implied this rule is for the bottom half of the rating distribution.

But even at higher levels, players can rage quit when they perceive they have made a mistake, but still have realistic chances to recover.

[jovial magnet]

eh, idk

it is important to know how to convert an adventage

if you know your opponent well, you should decide wether to resign or not based on if you think they can convert their advantage

werther

enlgish spelling is weird

[crude gull]

Whether

Xd

[jovial magnet]

oh god

weder

I'm never spelling it any other way

in an effort to change the spelling

[sharp magnet]

water to resign

[jovial magnet]

me vs 2000000000 people

I'll win

[jovial magnet]

you rapscallion

you should vote for Rab1

that is

undoubtedly

the best move

[compact gale]

If 28 Re3, what does Gotham Play? Qxh5? Qg4+, Other?

If 28 Re3 Qxh5, what do we play? Kg2? Other?
If 28 Re3 Qg4+, what do we play? Kf1? Other?

[compact gale]

what was your other move @autumn temple, in the move 29 polls?

[compact gale]

Another good response for 28...Qg4+ is 29 Rg3.

(I should have added that to the Qg4+ poll)

= Rg3 (for Move 29 polls)

If you like that move, Vote for Other then click on the emoji reaction to the corresponding poll

[jagged bobcat]

If Qxh5, I’d say Kg2. The plan should be to double the rooks on h-file imo

[compact gale]

About to post this, any objections, improvements, etc?

[jagged bobcat]

I guess our only hope is to win dominance over an open h-file. Therefore I would support Rg3 if he checks with Qg4+. As he then escapes, we could play Kg2 and then Rh1

[vagrant pelican]

Rg3 is winning big

[vagrant pelican]

By the time you do that, both h pawns will be gone

29 Rg3 Qxh5
30 Kg2 Qxh4
31 Rh1… and now d4 pawn is also unprotected

[compact gale]

If 29 Rg3, what does Gotham play next?
Qxh4, Qxh5, Qxd4, Qe4, Qe2, anything else?

[compact gale]

If 29 Rg3 Qxh4, what do we play?
Rd1, Re1, Kg2, Rg2, h6+, anything else?

[compact gale]

If 29 Rg3 Qxh5, what do we play?
Kg2, Kf1, Rg2, Rh3, Re1, anything else?

---

If 29 Rg3 Qxd4, what do we play?
Re1, h6+, Rc1, anything else?

If 29 Rg3 Qe4, what do we play?
h6+, hxg6, Rh3, d5, anything else?

---

If 29 Rg3 Qe2, what do we play?
h6+, hxg6, b4, anything else?

[compact gale]

I am planning to stop using the Don't care option in polls since I am tired of it "winning". If you don't care, don't respond to the poll.

[compact gale]

I've put up The Qxh4 and Qxh5 Move 30 polls. If we were to adda 3rd poll, which one would it be?

[jovial magnet]

Qxd4 I think

if that move is possible

wait a second

yeah

between qxh4 and qxh5 I think qxh5 is more likely, feels like there are more vague options of moves we can play, and if one seemingly innocent move gains an innitiative but turns out to be a mistake then it would be good for him

similar to what happened when we played c5, after the knight moved to b6 we had to react to our pawn being attacked, and we only had a handfull of ways to do it

but once we played b3 and he went Kg7, there were a handfull of good moves

and so, between them was distributed the amount of votes previously concentrated in b3

and c5 jsut won

same can happen if we have many seemingly good moves

like, which pawn to protect?

which plan works best?

can't answer that unitedly when most of us can't even see a two move sequenc

Qxd4 gives us a thing to concentrate on, moving or protecting the rook, upon some other captures we have many moves, so I don't think he will go Qxd4, but I think it's possible

I mean, I thought for sure he would play Qg4+ before taking the knight

to prevent us from doubling so fast

although maybe it's not working so well for us either way, because the idea was to double on the e file but as soon as a check landed we moved the rook away from the e file XD

going with the same idea, upon xh4 we can kinda see an idea, since we can probably capture or advance the h5 pawn

and that might win

but upon xh5 we can't push h5 or capture g6 because the h5 pawn does not exist

unless he wants us to take on g6 oppening the h file completely :v

I mean, we do gain a tempo

with the further gxf7

but he might just take back

not in a hurry ig

and then he forms a battery and it's not looking fun

so yeah

if he goes Qxh4 we have to try preventing hxg6

because that just makes us lose faster

upon Qxh5 not so much of a problem, because again, no h5 pawn xd

so yeah, upon Qxh4 we reallyyyy have to push for Kg2

because if we lose even one tempo, he will occupy the h file before us

the central pawns are doomed anyways

[jagged bobcat]

That would actually be good. Then if we can double our rooks on the h-file, we could do some serious threat of perpetual checks

[vagrant pelican]

Right I see. So we should go Kg2 irrespective of he takes the h4 or h5 pawn

But our poll for Qxh5 #next-move-polls message, Re1 is leading

[compact gale]

OK, throwing up a poll for Qxd4, and a bonus poll for Qe2

[compact gale]

Re1 is OK too

[compact gale]

@tulip grotto What is the Other move you prefer in the 29 Rg3 Qe2 poll?

[tulip grotto]

mb I missclicked

[compact gale]

You can remove your vote and change it.

[tulip grotto]

I already did

[compact gale]

Initial Recommendations for our Move 30 responses to GothamChess's expected replies to 29 Rg3 from discussion and polling on Chess.com's Official discussion forum:

If GothamChess plays 29...Qxh4, we play 30 Kg2 to enable Rh1 to contest the h-file

If GothamChess plays 29...Qxh5, we play 30 Re1 centralizing our rook with play along the e-file, also denying e8 to Gotham's rook

If GothamChess plays 29...Qxd4, we play 30 Re1 escaping Gotham's queen's greedy eye, centralizing our rook, denying e8 to Gotham's rook.

If GothamChess plays 29...Qe2, we play 30 hxg6, exchanging our endangered h-pawn for one of Gotham's, while protecting our a-pawn.

You can join the Official Chess.com discussion forum to help discuss and analyze the game, vote in polls to select the best moves for The World Team, and promote them in the GothamChess game team chat! Link: https://go.chess.com/PlayGothamDiscord

About to post our recommendations for Move 30. Comments, improvements, etc?

[vagrant pelican]

Ok I can’t believe that Re1 is competing against hxg6

[undone zinc]

How miserable. It is winning by 3%

[vagrant pelican]

The gap is increasing

[undone zinc]

Thankfully so

[compact gale]

<@&745328830649991179> gmdavv on chess.com is maliciously reposting and editing our recommendation posts.

[silent cloak]

Verbal Abuse
Racism
Violence / Threats
Sexual Harassment
Inappropriate Avatar or Username
Spamming

[silent cloak]

Where does forgery and impersonation fit in?

[compact gale]

The person is being reported for violating Communicty Conduct guidelines

Do not hijack threads, troll, or post distracting or meaningless content
Do not abuse, attack, threaten, discriminate, harass, or mistreat other members in any way

<@&745328830649991179> Please intervene or communicate with chess.com mods. This is getting way out of hand

[compact gale]

What is you understanding of what is happening on chess.com ?

[silent cloak]

It seems like some childish people are making me mad

[compact gale]

It is a serious violation of community guidelines. Do you agree? Their lies and manipulation of our posts is working

[compact gale]

hxg6?? losing a rook for nothing with check is 11 votes from taking the lead over Re1

[compact gale]

Thanks for your help! GN and GL fighting off the blunder move hxg6??

[dense bridge]

Handled. All Server Mods here are also chess.com mods.

[vagrant pelican]

Thank you. What’s the right category to report such issues?

[dense bridge]

Category? Feel free to ping Server Mod here, as David F did.

[vagrant pelican]

Ok thank you. I was referring to the categories for reporting on chesscom but pinging server mods here works better!

Verbal Abuse
Racism
Violence / Threats
Sexual Harassment
Inappropriate Avatar or Username
Spamming

[compact gale]

There is a different list when you report the user instead of the post.

[inner iron]

I use this as well. It has a OTHER category where you can give relevant info, though it does take longer. If you ping the server mod, that gets results quickly, esp when we are trying to stop something that is time sensitive and can affect voting counts. Is someone is imitating the discord team by copying our recommendation, and then altering it (falsifying the document), that is not ok. You can report the user by clicking on their name and a little box opens up, then clicking on THAT name, and opening up their profile, clicking on the three dots to the right and clicking report. Just make sure you give info, like, they are breaking fair play policy by immitating the discord team, use of engine, spamming, etc etc etc... and then link the report with info regarding their post that you are reporting for.

[vagrant pelican]

Re1 is probably safe now

What’s Gotham playing next?
Qd2
Qxc5 (the famous c5)
Qxh4 - little unlikely

[compact gale]

Rh8

I don't think Qxc5 is best for him

Qxh4, Rh8, Qd2 are my top 3 not sure of order

4 polls?

[compact gale]

Qxh4; hxg6, Kg2, Ree3 ?

Rh8: hxg6 ?

Qd2: Rge3, Re4, ?

Qxc5: hxg6, ?

[compact gale]

Made 4 new polls very quickly. Only 64 minutes left in our turn.

[compact gale]

I think that resigning is a personal decision partly based on your level of understanding of the game and the level of your opponent. Levy says that under 2000 (?), you should not resign. I would move that down to around 1600 maybe?

It is so easy to resign impulsively after we make a mistake, that is not as terrible as our embarrassment magnifies it to be.

Gukesh could have resigned against Magnus, in the table slam game. But he didn't and he won.

Initial Recommendations for our Move 31 responses to GothamChess's expected replies to 30 Re1 from discussion and polling on Chess.com's Official discussion forum:

If GothamChess plays 30...Qxh4, ..Qxc5, or ..Rh8, we play 31 hxg6 to get compensation for our threatened h-pawn

If GothamChess plays 30...Qd2, we play 31 Rge3 to defend our Re1, doubling our rooks to protect each other and control the e-file.

You can join the Official Chess.com discussion forum to help discuss and analyze the game, vote in polls to select the best moves for The World Team, and promote them in the GothamChess game team chat! Link: https://go.chess.com/PlayGothamDiscord

---

Any suggested changes, corrections or improvements?

Posted.

[compact gale]

Reposted after archiving and new team chat

[vagrant pelican]

How are we thinking what’s better after Qd2? Rge3 or Re4?

[compact gale]

I'm not so sure, now that I have more time.

[potent cedar]

Perhaps true, but i guess he's assuming we're playing someone of the same level who might blunder too, not levy

[compact gale]

Especially for Levy, the internet's chess teacher, he will not be offended by his students playing out an ending all the way.

Even if it was another IM, they know that the chess.com world audience is composed mostly of inexperienced players who are learning.

[compact gale]

OK, I slightly prefer Re4 b/c it defends h4 and indirectly f2 as well as being able to switch over to the queen-side.

I never realized the GMSzabo's first name is Krisztian

[vagrant pelican]

Gotham moved

[compact gale]

our-turn alert sent

We play 31 hxg6

[vagrant pelican]

hxg6 is leading comfortably

He’ll take back. Then we check him?

Not sure if that’s the best move but it will definitely be played

[compact gale]

I think he will play 31...Rh8

[compact gale]

I'd like to improve our reason for hxg6:

If GothamChess plays 30...Qxh4, we play 31 hxg6 to avoid losing our h-pawn for nothing, but not only that, we weaken Gotham's king's defenses and threaten him from both g-file and 7th rank!

---

How does that sound? Are we OK with this, have a better suggestion?

[vagrant pelican]

We still check him with gxf7?

[vagrant pelican]

Is this a reasonable continuation?

31. hxg6 Rh8 32. gxf7+ Kxf7
32. Kg2 Qh2+ 34. Kf3 Rh3 35. Rxh3 Qxh3+ 36. Ke2

[compact gale]

Sorry was away for a couple hours, catching up

Headed out for about 40 minutes

[jovial magnet]

what should we play after this? I think it's the most likely combination to land on the board

I doubt he will be recapturing allowing Re7+ with slight counterplay

and I doubt even more anything other than gxf7 with a discovered check wins the poll after Rh8 lol

dafurtney

I will hit you over the head with a flying waffle

gxf7

comes with check

from the rook

he can't blunder his own king

[compact gale]

Yes, I screwd the pooch there.

[inner iron]

The dreaded flying waffle attack!

[jovial magnet]

has ended many careers

injury by waffle is irreverisble

[compact gale]

I just deleted my erroneous posts

Owwwww!

The embarassment waffle hurts!

[vagrant pelican]

Kg2?

[jovial magnet]

happens to the best of us 😔

[compact gale]

I think so

Or perhaps 32 Kg2 instead of 32 gxf7+

[vagrant pelican]

Taking a pawn with check. It’s going to get played no matter what

It’s the elusive Kg2 move we’ve been trying to play since move 21 😥

[compact gale]

31 .. f5 also looks good for Gotham

threatening a replay of the first f pawn

[jovial magnet]

Some day we Will, someday

[jovial magnet]

Yeah, we don't have many plans anyways so he can afford the time wasting

[compact gale]

The name of this game could be Death by the Tripled f pawns!!

[jovial magnet]

I'd say it's closer to the world living in the moment

we played so many 1 and 2 movers

Nh2

spectacular g4

and the nail in the coffin

whatever Nxf6 was

but okay, we lived

to play Bxf6

and free up his king's path to the second rank

allowing the rook to the h file we openned

but just in case he needed more help

we pushed his knight, which was kinda stuck on the edge of the board, to the center

ofcourse, gxh5 was quite silly too

[compact gale]

32 gxf7+ Kxf7 33 Kg2 f5 (Qh2+ ..) 34 Rd3 f4 35 Kf3 Qh3+ 36 Ke2 Re8+ 37 Kd2 Qxd3+ ...

Syrup laden Waffles incoming!!!!

[compact gale]

---

If 31 hxg6, what will Gotham play?
Rh8, Rd8, f5, fxg6, any others that should bump one of these?

---

[jovial magnet]

either Rh8 or Rd8

maybe f5

although I don't really see the sense in that yet

[compact gale]

and fxg6

I think that is enough

---

if 31 hxg6 Rh8, what should we play?
Kg2, Kf1, gxf7+, and that is it

If 31 hxg6 fxg6, what should we play?
Re7+, Rge3, anything else?

[jovial magnet]

gxf7+ is likely getting played, but it's the same position after

this is what we will get if we go full into kg2

[jovial magnet]

I will analise it in a moment, see if there is a checkmate for black

I think Kf1 is better

if we go kf1 it is important that upon Qh1+ we block with Rg1, if we simply go Ke2 there is Re8+ winning our rook

so, regardless of if gxf7+ lands or not, we play Kf1, Qh1+ Rg1

[compact gale]

Just looking for candidates right now, not which one is best

[jovial magnet]

the simplest thing he can do is Qh3+ forcing us to e2 (as blocking with the rook just leads to losing it, with Rg2 self pin, Rg8) and then trading rooks with Re8+

if he plays fxg6 I think no other move than Re7+ makes sense

we force him to the 8th rank

if he goes to the 6th rank we have almost a draw with Kg2, we would be down a pawn

[jovial magnet]

otherwise, he can go Qf3 and maybe that is checkmate in a few more moves

[jovial magnet]

still probably less than Kg2, this does not look pretty, and we have to be precise, to get here there are like 4 very losing moves

of which going back to g2 and then f1 is the slowest I think

so this

we get this, the other one, or just losing our rook in 2 moves

if we go Kg2

[jovial magnet]

I think this would be followed by Rh2, it's a dangerous position, probably checkmate in 6 or 7 with our play

also don't know what we would do..

like, moving the g3 rook away from the 3d rank allows queen d3+

and moving it away from the g file is even worse, allows Qg2+

if we move the e rook away from the e file then Rh1+ seals our fate, we don't want to lose the 1st rank rook so we block, and then just Qd3, if we move he takes both rooks, Rxg2+ and Rxc1/b1/a1

if we go to g2 it's Qh3#

maybe moving it to e3

[compact gale]

If 31 hxg6 Rd8, what do we play?
Kg2, Rge3, gxf7+, ?

[jovial magnet]

ah, but then just Qd1+, Re1, Rh1+ Rg1, Rxg1, Kxg1, Qxe1 and we're down a queen

and then this, yeah it's just lost

[jovial magnet]

the only surviving position for Kg2 is this, which looks very, very scary

[jovial magnet]

Kg2 is my vote

just, we have to prevent the rook getting off the first rank, because that blunders mate in 2

well, 3, we can block with the rook xd

the good thing about Kg2 is he does not have Qe4+ because of your e rook, so I think, THINK we can go to occupy the h file in that case

unless it loses the rook in 2 moves or something

ah, yeah, we can't

maybe it's not good then, because if he leaves his queen there we will want to attack it, and we would lose very fast

like this

[compact gale]

If 31 gxh6 f5, what should we play?
gxf7+, Kg2, ?

[jovial magnet]

so nvm, probably just Rge3 is best

doubling rooks

[jovial magnet]

interesting

[compact gale]

and Kg2, a4 ?

[jovial magnet]

ah, if we do that and he has time to play Re8, then I think Qh1 is dangerous

[jovial magnet]

a4 is kind of weird, I don't think it's a bad move but I also think we will have a hard time convincing people to vote that, and a bad move might win

[compact gale]

These are just candidates for us to poll

[jovial magnet]

first, he can just use the g file to check us and we can't really do much other than block

yeah

well, also, if he plays anything else, we go Re7 instead of taking the pawn with theck, beacue we pin it

because*

[jovial magnet]

oof okay, I think he would go Rd8 now, from there what would we even play

like, we can't even stop Rd4+, if we go Re4 he just has f5

eh

welp

ah damn, Kf1 is also very scary

but there's less space for mistake

and we can hope he just trades rooks

[compact gale]

OK, I have some draft polls ready for review

If 31 hxg6, what will Gotham play?
Rh8, Rd8, f5, fxg6, Other

**if 31 hxg6 Rh8, what should we play?
Kg2, Kf1, gxf7+, Other

If 31 hxg6 fxg6, what should we play?
Re7+, Rge3, Other

If 31 hxg6 Rd8, what do we play?
Kg2, Rge3, gxf7+, Other

If 31 gxh6 f5, what should we play?
gxf7+, Kg2, Other**

---

Sorry @jovial magnet we were working in parallel. What would you add (or subtract)?

[jovial magnet]

I'm not really sure what I would say is a good move or not for f5

but, I think Kg2 as a response to Rd8 should be subtracted, as this can happen:

[jovial magnet]

@compact gale

actually, ctrl c ctrl v XDD

it's an easy trap for levy to set up, and we could very well fall for it

ah, Rd1 as a response to f5 works

trying to go Rd7+, Rg7

well, It's 1 am here, I'll be dead for the next 7 hours lol

tomorrow lunch hopefully gotham has played and we can know our sad destiniy

destiny

fate

that word

[compact gale]

What is wrong with 31 hxg6 Rd8 32 Kg2?

[compact gale]

31 hxg6 f5 32 Rd1 looks bad after .. Rh8 33 Kf1 f4 34 Rd4 fxg3 35 Rxh4 Rxh4

Creating polls now

[compact gale]

<@&745328830649991179> SHUNGITE on chess.com continues to alter our recommendation posts to make it appear we are recommending blunders. This has got to be a violation of Community Policy, maliciously quoting another posting. Please do something about this. I am reporting this account for the 3rd time.

[vagrant pelican]

There’s even better move order on chesscom- the chat is bit broken right now - in which we simply lose a rook. Will share once chat is fixed

[compact gale]

OK, interested to see it

[compact gale]

First Draft of Recommendations for Move 32

I**f GothamChess plays 31...Rh8, we play 32 Kf1 giving ourselves a flight square on e2 avoiding checkmate via Qh1+

If GothamChess plays 31...f5, we play 32 gxf7+ taking Gotham's f7 pawn with discovered check. Gotham will recapture with his king. We might follow up with 32 Rd1 threatening to check his king on d7.

If GothamChess plays 31...fxg6, we play 32 Re7+ harassing Gotham's king. Gotham will play Kf8 attacking our rook. We have a number of options on where our rook goes next.

If GothamChess plays 31...Rd8, we play 32 gxf7+ taking Gotham's f7 pawn with discovered check. Gotham will recapture with his king. We might follow up with Rge3 or Kg2. **

[vagrant pelican]

Unfortunately, that part of the chat is still messed up. The chat software of chesscom is what from stone age?
It was a post from Mazetoskylo 3-4 hrs ago. I am not able to replicate the exact moves now but after Kg2, it involved kept checking the king on the light squares and then following up with Rh1+

what I am trying now is ending up in mate

That was after 31… Rh8 32 gxf7+ Kxf7

[compact gale]

I'll take a look. We are recommending 32 Kf1

Can you check over initial move 32 recommendations draft I just posted here?

I don't think our Rd8 recommendation is good

[vagrant pelican]

I just voted. Let’s recommend Kg2

[compact gale]

So now it is tied?

Last vote tie breaker?

[vagrant pelican]

Yes

[compact gale]

**World Team: We need to break a tie for the 31 hxg6 Rd8 poll. We will use a last vote tie breaker for our initial recommendations. Please vote in this poll, if you haven't. **

[compact gale]

OK, publishing initial recommendations for move 32

[compact gale]

Reposted after archiving in new team chat

[vagrant pelican]

It’s a close vote again

[compact gale]

I don't think 32 Kf1 was our best choice here. I thought it was 32 Kg2 and that 2nd best was 32 gxf7+ Kf7 33 Kg2

I am seeing in more detail how bad it is. I am seeing some lines where we exchange rooks and the last rook is lost via a queen fork. Sample line 32 Kf1 Qh1+ 33 Ke2 Qe4+ 34 Re3 Qc2 35 Kf3 Rh2 36 Rf1 Rh3+ 37 Kg4 Rxe3 38 fxe3 Qg2+

But even 32 Kg2 prospects are not looking so bright, better than Kf1, but not all that inspiring.

In other words, I don't think we should fight for Kf1, or even bother switching our endorsement.

[vagrant pelican]

I think it’s 36 Rf1 in this line

[jagged bobcat]

I voted Kg2. We should have played it in stead of hxg6 imo, to win dominance on the h-file, but now this seems difficult

[vagrant pelican]

hxg6 seems a mistake now

[compact gale]

I don't think it was. It will be interesting to see a good game review of this. Can you get better game reviews with Diamond?

(after the game ofc)

[compact gale]

fixed that

[vagrant pelican]

I think with diamond, you can set/change the depth level

[compact gale]

I'll have to give that a try sometime on another game. Does lichess have a game review function as well?

[fiery delta]

Me, and some other person from chat checked also the 33. Rg1 response to the check. It seems that even if Gotham checks us all the time it can lead for better pieces arrangement for us.
32. Kf1 Qh1+
33. Rg1 Qh3+
34. Rg2 Qd3+
35. Kg1 Qd2
36. Rf1 Qh6
37. f4

[potent cedar]

This is another reason why a bunch of folk wanna resign ...

Don't want to wait forever

[compact gale]

The following is a draft of an important announcement intended for the GothamChess team chat prepared by a majority of active world-admins. Please let us know your thoughts.

---

**The Official chess.com discussion forum has decided to discontinue posting recommendations for the rest of the GothamChess game. We believe the GothamChess game has now reached a stage where the game is truly lost with no realistic chance for the world to even draw.

It takes the forum members and world-admins significant time and energy to facilitate and analyze each position's candidate moves 2 ply deep from the current position, respond to polls and then write up and repost our recommendations in the team chat. We feel this effort is no longer worth the investment of time and energy just to stave off checkmate for as long as possible. That said, many of us will continue participating as individuals in the team chat and forum.

Regarding the question of resigning: we are neutral. If you understand how to win the game from our opponents side, it is reasonable to vote to resign. Otherwise, we recommend you don't resign and learn how an IM wins a won game. This isn't always so simple.

When you vote to resign by clicking the Resign flag just below the movement buttons,  your resignation vote is recorded and combined with other resign votes, but votes for resign are not binding unless 60% or more of all the players voting on that move choose to resign. Otherwise, the game continues with the most voted for move other than resign. Note that you cannot make a move and resign, you must click the resign option and confirm it, then that is your move.  You can see how many players are voting to resign in the vote tab. It may take many moves for the resign vote percentage to become equal to or greater than 60%.

When the game finally does officially end, let's do a post mortem breakdown of the The World vs GothamChess game using our human thoughts, impressions and analysis enhanced by chess engine based game reviews.**

.
You can join the Official Chess.com discussion forum to discuss and analyze future vote chess games, including participating in polls to select the best moves to recommend for The World Team, as well as promoting them in the GothamChess game team chat! Link: https://go.chess.com/PlayGothamDiscord
----

[vagrant pelican]

That post from yesterday is still broken but I think it went something like this…

31... Rh8 32. gxf7+ Kxf7
33. Kg2 Qh2+ 34. Kf3 Qh5+ 35. Kg2 Qd5+ 36. Kf1 Rh1+

How do we avoid losing the rook from this position?

If 37. Rg1 Qd3+ 38.
Kg2 (38. Re2 Rxg1+ 39. Kxg1 Qxe2) 38... Qh3#)

May be 37 Ke2 delays it

[compact gale]

gxf7+ is winning by 294 votes.

[compact gale]

<@&1377312389040443522> The announcement above is intended for the GothamChess team chat prepared by a majority of active world-admins is about to be posted to team chat in the next 30 minutes. It does say that this forum (aka The World Team) will not be making recommendations for the remainder of this game.

[novel hamlet]

😧

[unique cliff]

[mint trail]

why u meh ping meh

[compact gale]

**---
The Official chess.com discussion forum has decided to discontinue posting recommendations for the rest of the GothamChess game. We believe the GothamChess game has now reached a stage where the game is truly lost with no realistic chance for the world to even draw.

It takes the forum members and world-admins significant time and energy to facilitate and analyze each position's candidate moves 2 ply deep from the current position, respond to polls and then write up and repost our recommendations in the team chat. We feel this effort is no longer worth the investment of time and energy just to stave off checkmate for as long as possible. That said, many of us will continue participating as individuals in the team chat and forum.

Regarding the question of resigning: we are neutral. If you understand how to win the game from our opponents side, it is reasonable to vote to resign. Otherwise, we recommend you don't resign and learn how an IM wins a won game. This isn't always so simple.

When you vote to resign by clicking the Resign flag just below the movement buttons,  your resignation vote is recorded and combined with other resign votes, but votes for resign are not binding unless 60% or more of all the players voting on that move choose to resign. Otherwise, the game continues with the most voted for move other than resign. Note that you cannot make a move and resign, you must click the resign option and confirm it, then that is your move.  You can see how many players are voting to resign in the vote tab. It may take many moves for the resign vote percentage to become equal to or greater than 60%.

When the game finally does officially end, let's do a post mortem breakdown of the The World vs GothamChess game using our human thoughts, impressions and analysis enhanced by chess engine based game reviews. **

[mint trail]

yappity yap

[compact gale]

.
**You can join the Official Chess.com discussion forum to discuss and analyze future vote chess games, including participating in polls to select the best moves to recommend for The World Team, as well as promoting them in the GothamChess game team chat! Link: https://go.chess.com/PlayGothamDiscord **

---

Please note that it does include "That said, many of us will continue participating as individuals in the team chat and forum". But it does mean we would not be posting a group recommendation. We can still post on team chat as ourselves.

[compact gale]

Regarding the announcement which is about our whole team.

[compact gale]

Sorry you are sad. But the 24/7 effort is taxing -- and no longer seems justified to us. We are volunteers, not paid staff.

We all can still talk about things here, and post in team chat based on those discussions.

as individuals.

[pine venture]

I don't even feel like participating anymore. We would have a chance to win if peeps used brain when voting.

There were experts brainstorming and suggesting best possible moves, all in vain.

Cuz "nobody says to me what to do" 😄

If anything, we could have a chance to at least draw the game.

I was voting for suggested moves and even tried to look for solutions myself when I had time. But slugs with no brains had other ideas I guess.

[compact gale]

Yes, I agree about the problem with team play not working so well. The chess.com "public" vote chess software would need to be changed to really enforce/encourage team play.

If you have ideas about that, do let us know. We intend to discuss the issues we encountered in this game with chess.com staff.

[tender grove]

put chat above the game

ez pz

[craggy solstice]

yo i can talk

[compact gale]

Good suggestion. Yes, that would help. But is probably not enough on its own, right?

[hollow holly]

Btw @compact gale who suggested c5

[median wraith]

I would like to thank Chess.com staff and everyone involved for working on the move recommendations as hard as they did. I appreciate all the work that was put into it, and I loved calculating alongside you.

I have said this before, and I will say it again: I have learnt quite a bit from this one game alone, which I hope to take with me for future games. The move predictions, explanations, and recommendations were of great instructional value.

Finally, while I am saddened by the impending doom that is upon us, I choose not to resign, even though every attempt of saving ourselves is utterly futile at this point. I would love to see how the game unfolds, even though checkmate is imminent. I wish we could get a rematch.

[compact gale]

Not this group. Our recommendations are copied to https://discord.com/channels/387637011965804544/1415399746943844483

https://discord.com/channels/387637011965804544/1432847959740911837

The 24/7 nature of these games for weeks and months is exhausting. One thing that really contributes to to that is that we have to prepare against all likely Gotham responses because we have to beat the rush to vote when Gotham responds at some unpredictable time. What if we didn't have to do that and could just focus on the move he actually played? What if you couldn't vote for the first 6 hours? What if Gothams moves always took 24 hours?

[median wraith]

That's a brilliant idea!

[vagrant pelican]

That would save so much time. Analyzing all the possible moves is exhausting and honestly, that’s not how we play chess anyway. We see opponent’s move and then evaluate options

[compact gale]

But could read and post to the team chat for the first 6 hours.

[tender grove]

we could make them check a terms and conditions box (“yes I have read the chat”) and go through a captcha

[vagrant pelican]

6 hrs is still hard because of all the different timezones involved. It may work if the super GM/ IM and the coaches for the world team are in the same timezone. Else 2 day move for the world team with 24 hr freeze on voting? And the super GM can move whenever they want (like now). It does make the game slower but honestly, i think world needs to have that time

[compact gale]

The 1999 Kasparov vs World game had a 6 hour freeze. I'll have to double check the schedule. But a two day pace is quite interesting, it would help both sides!

24 hours of planning (no moves) and 24 hours to move!

---

Once the schedule/freezes are fixed their is still the problem that team chat is badly designed to promote team play. No search, no top comments, no way for coaches to be featured/pinned. No way to refer to another post that doesn't break in 30 minutes. Quoting is broken, having problems with copying interactive boards and images. etc.

Its almost like teamwork is being discouraged in the current implementatio.

I have posted the important announcement

Let me know if you have any feedback.

[mint trail]

dum dum

[compact gale]

After 32 gxf7+ Kxf7, I recommend 32 Kg2

[mint trail]

fix mehh

[mint trail]

okay

[compact gale]

minor updates

32 gxf7+ is on the board.

I don't see any quick knockouts for Gotham

[vagrant pelican]

Thoughts on what I posted earlier this morning?

That post from yesterday is still broken but I think it went something like this…

31... Rh8 32. gxf7+ Kxf7
33. Kg2 Qh2+ 34. Kf3 Qh5+ 35. Kg2 Qd5+ 36. Kf1 Rh1+

How do we avoid losing the rook from this position?

May be 37 Ke2?

[compact gale]

Eventually, inevitable, but no checkmate in the next 10 moves I don't think. But he will have made substatntial progress towards checkmate.

[compact gale]

I was looking at 33 ... f5. Let me look at the Qh2+ line

Not sure that 34 Kf3 is best for us,, .. 34 Kf3 Qh5+ 35 Kf4 (not Kg2) Qd5 36 Reg1 Rh4+ 37 Rg4 Qe5+ 38 Kf3 Qf5+ and we lost two rooks for one.

But we are still technically alive!

I think 34 Kf1 might do better. [later date of death]

[vagrant pelican]

After 34… Qh1+ 35 Rg1 to block the check?

[compact gale]

I am gaining respect for 34 Kf1 over Kf3

[vagrant pelican]

Because 35 Ke2 will lose the Re1

No wait. May be not

[compact gale]

Which line? full context?

[vagrant pelican]

After 34 Kf1

I see we can survive for 10 moves or so. The f pawn will give us a slow death may be

[compact gale]

34 Kf1 Qh1+ 35 Rg1 looks worse for us than Ke2. The Rg3 is better on the 3rd rank.

So 35 Ke2

[vagrant pelican]

I am clear now. Thank you for working this out with me!

[compact gale]

I had to spread out my analysis tree a bit. By the way, the idea of an analysis tree used by Irinia Krush (perfect name for a chess player!) was really successful for Kasparove v World in 1999.

The World actually played at a Grandmaster level

That is how far away this format is.

---

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1069358

Karpov vs World in 1996

MSN learned from the Karpov game, and it was a Caro Kann!

and the World was White!

Played in 2012

World resigned after move 32

Nice game

[vagrant pelican]

What’s analysis tree?

[compact gale]

I think the world got in trouble on move 17 and allowed Black to double the pawns in front of the World's king, leaving 2 groups of isolated pawns with the Karpov's Queen ready to pounce.

[compact gale]

I wish this had a visual, but I found something here https://www.chess.com/blog/GMTheDeepThinker/unlocking-the-tree-of-analysis-your-guide-to-mastering-chess-calculation

https://michaelnielsen.org/blog/kasparov-versus-the-world/

OK, I should move this to #theworld-general

[astral basin]

hi

[vagrant pelican]

Gotham moved

World is playing Kf1

[compact gale]

I voted for 33 Kg2

[fiery delta]

I also voted for Kg2 in the current position - to further defend our Rg3 rook. The g and h files are now open for Gotham's rook.

[spring forge]

A good idea!
Living in NZ, I only see your comments in the morning of the next day (often a 100+!), so no point for me to give any sensible reply as the discussion has moved on. Giving us some extra time to comment on a single move would certainly be an improvement for me, and thanks David for your all your suggestions, they are very helpful and appreciated.

[vagrant pelican]

Kf1 ain’t that bad?

[compact gale]

The timing of when a turn begins is tricky to be fair about in a world wide game. But having a regular 24 hour cycle for both sides would help.

There was a good suggestion that the cycle be changed to 48 hours, for the 24 hours we can't move, only team chat, 2nd 24 hours we can make our move. This would also help with having time to do things outside the game!

[compact gale]

I don't think there is much difference. There might even be a transposition between those two.

33 Kg2 Qh2+ 34 Kf1 Qh1+

[vagrant pelican]

Exactly what we looked at earlier

[compact gale]

I think we are likely to be checkmated sometime between move 50 and 60. We could resign earlier of course.

With no glimmers of hope. Sorry to be so negative. But that is what I am seeing.

[vagrant pelican]

That’s assuming best play. World can easily blunder a rook

[compact gale]

Yes, but we can be separated from our rooks even with best play.

[compact gale]

Yes, "best'ish" play

[proud pecan]

We can’t expect to see perfect play from levy for another 20 ish moves tho bros not Magnus?

[drifting kiln]

Yeah we can, he's an IM playing a very simple conversion. Queen vs rook, take all the pawns, forcibly win the rook, checkmate.

[proud pecan]

Na we Finna queen

[tender grove]

he would easily convert the rest of this game with 95% accuracy even with a minute on the clock

white doesn’t have any play

pawns are weak

king is weak

[proud pecan]

I wonder what our accuracy will be tbh 🫠

[tender grove]

id guess low 80s

could be mid 70s at worst

[limber python]

There is a way to see the board?

[inner iron]

Yeah, go here https://www.chess.com/votechess/game/386700

[compact gale]

To see the present position in The World vs GothamChess, go to https://www.chess.com/votechess/game/386700

[jovial magnet]

after 33. Kf1 Qh1+ Rg1 is checkmate

in 9 moves

or we lose the rook, but that's never winning the poll

I think

well, there's also blocking with the rook but now the g file is open, I would hope the world is able to see half a mvoe ahead

[merry hull]

😭

[spring forge]

A time for chat only would be beneficial, but potentially makes the game twice as long.
With the extra day, the proposed move must be binding as people then have enough time to comment and give their view. As you mentioned earlier, additional tools would be very helpful, like building a complete analysis tree from selected comments, much as you do now, but then in a more structured way where you can easily navigate through the tree and its branches.
We can only dream. 😇

[blazing coral]

Ok

[compact gale]

Yes, it makes it twice as long per move. Another idea is to give the world 48 hours and the titled player 24 hours. The world needs more time to communicate and coordinate between hundreds of thousands of voting players.

But I think the titled player might enjoy the extra flexibility in their non-game life too!

[vagrant pelican]

Titled player anyway has all the flexibility. They don’t time out and their move is effectively immediately. So it doesn’t matter how much time is given to them.

[compact gale]

The idea is that their move does not take effect immediately, just like club vote chess.

No time out is interesting. Perhaps they have the option to extend their turn by one full day

[echo shadow]

I think Rg1 makes the most sense. If we go Ke2 it sets him up for Qd5 and then Rh2

[echo shadow]

Lol.. nvrmind. Qd5 is less of a problem than Rg8 would be if we block with the rook

[vagrant pelican]

Ke2 is the only move I think

[jovial magnet]

yeah, Rg1 ends is checkmate in ~9 moves

or we give up both rooks

for a rook

so we lose a rook

that would be chemate in like 20

probably

Rg1 worked if we had not taken on f7, opening the g file

because with the g file close we could block Qh3+ with Rg2

now we can't because he just attacks the rook a second time from g8

and wins it

so Ke2 and we trade rooks

and then slow death

[fiery delta]

I agree with the g-file opened, but from my calculations both Rg1 and Ke2 lead to rook-trade. But he shouldn't take our rook for free.

[jovial magnet]

Rg1 leads to losing the rook, or checkmate

because he follows up with Qh3+

if we block with Rg2 he just goes Rg8, the rooks is pinned and we can't add another defender, since our e1 rook can't teleport :c

so we go Ke2

he goes Re8+

we have to go to the d file

because the other squares are kinda blocked

and he goes Rd8+

and the problem

is we can't go back

because if we go back to e2

Qd3 is checkmate

so we have to go to the c file

and that's just death

like, if we go to c1 there's Qc3

that's pretty quick

beacuse Rd2 follows and there's no stopping checkmate

we can stall by going to c2

but he goes f5+, looking at the juicy c5 square

[fiery delta]

OK, so it's nothing new in this match - since we had to give Queen and Knight to prevent checkmate. I suspected that opening the g-file is a big mistake. I'm curious how the people thorough analysis will look after the game.

[jovial magnet]

I don't know, but I guess it was pretty grim since g4

although, since the world clearly can't defend well (in this parcticular version of the world) trading the dark squared bishop was probably the mistake, since it allowed his king to go to g7, so that he could use the open h file

[compact gale]

There were a number of mistakes by the World that accumulated. The largest single mistake was 22 gxh5??, I think. It will be interesting to see what the engine reviews (and GothamChess) say -- after the game ends.

[compact gale]

From team chat.

[jovial magnet]

welp, it will all be over soon

don't think 1.5k people are voting for Ke2 this moment

I also don't think gotham will be missing Qh3+ Re8+ Rd8+

so it should be mate in 9

will probably be over right when december starts

[compact gale]

You missed Qh3+ Rg2!!

Pick our poison. Same date on gravestone likely.

[jovial magnet]

yeah

Rg2 is a pretty checkmate

sad it seems it won't get played though

no checkmate in the middle of the board for us

only boring ol' king on a1, queen on c2 and rook on d2

[compact gale]

Ke2 is prettier than brutal Rg2.

We die with our loyal rook pair intact! Instead of brutalized by enemy queen and rook circling our bereft king with only pawns remaining to witness.

[jovial magnet]

yeah... but middle of the board checkmate.. I think it's prettier snif :,c

like this

[desert orchid]

Are we cooked chat

[zinc mauve]

it’s over

[heady plover]

for the love of god no one vote Rg2

[tender grove]

dw im still voting to resign

[fiery delta]

I noticed some nice continuation (after Re8+) when we possibly can use Rook on e1 for defence. One of the moves is crucial there (with exclamation mark). Note that it considers probable moves (checks).

36. Kd2 Rd8+
37. Kc2 Qd3+
38. Kb2! Qd2+
39. Kb1

[heady plover]

after Kd2 i think Qd7+ will be played

[jovial magnet]

After Kc2 there is Qf5+ nicely connecting with the c5 square

If we go c3 or c1 then Qxc5+ and we have to go b1 or b2, either is followed by Rd2, and checkmate is unstopable, Queen Will go to a2, b2 or c2, all of them are checkmate and we can't stop them all at once

If we go b2 then there is Rd2+

And from there, if we go down then it's the same

If we go to a3

Then Qxc5+

And Rxa2#

We can delay with b4

But just Qc3+ Rxa2#

Notice all of these rely a lot on the third rank being free

And we would cover it with the rook had we gone Ke2 instead or Rg1

[compact gale]

I think 37 Rd8+ is faster. King can't go back to e2 (do you see why?), so must go to c1 or c2.

[vagrant pelican]

You mean can’t go back to e2

[fiery delta]

Qf5+ move is very tricky! My main idea is to avoid the joining of Queen with the Rook, but after this move it's unstoppable. Once the Rook joins the Queen, when our King is cut from d-file, the mate is imminent. Qd7+ is less tricky in my opinion. For now Gotham plays the most aggressive checks and probably will do until the end of the match.

[weary ember]

yall do realize its a forced mate in a few moves. we should resign, levy is not gonna blunder

[slate perch]

let him play it out. he deserves to deliver the mate

[vagrant pelican]

Gotham is playing very quickly now. He knows it’s over soon

[stone sundial]

We're finished in 3 moves 🥀

all we can do is sack our rooks

[tender grove]

you guys are still playing?

[jovial magnet]

I mean I guess

I'm not exploring any lines anymore

but I'm still voting for the moves

gotham just has to find 37... Qf5+ and it's over, I don't think he would miss it

at any rate, we will know the fate of the world in 6 hours

[potent cedar]

we knew its fate long ago bro...

[heady plover]

we knew its fate when a bunch of idiots voted to take the sacrificed rook

[unique cliff]

[vagrant pelican]

Resign is slowly inching up but we’ll get checkmated before we get to the 60 percent

[fiery delta]

I see this check-mate that may happen if we play Kb2. This move prevents joining the queen with rook directly, but still there's a mate:
38. Kb2 Rd2+
39. Ka3 Qxc5+
40. b4 Qc3+
41. Ka4 Rxa2#
I consider it as nice game overall, and can't wait for analysis of some interesting points.

[vagrant pelican]

Correct. Move 41 should be mate even if the king goes 39 Kc3

[fiery delta]

Wow. The 39. Kc3 continuation is much more interesting (probably as Rook is hanging). There are many lines unlike 39. Ka3. From my analysis in one line White survives to 43rd move:
38. Kb2 Rd2+
39. Kc3 Qd3+
40. Kb4 Qd4+
41. Ka3 Qxc5+
42. b4 Qc3+
43. Ka4 Rxa2#
Note: if Black moves 40. ... Qb5+ the King can return. Note: I considered only checks, so that White cannot prolong the game by unuseful checks.

[compact gale]

39 Ka1 lasts longer including nuisance checks

[compact gale]

I think move 42.

[fiery delta]

OK, I did not check Ka1 further as I noticed our King would be trapped fast on this square. I will vote for Kc3 probably in next move (depending on Gotham's response) because I like the variety of paths. Nuisance checks seem not elegant for me and I will not prolong this way. 🙂

[vagrant pelican]

Hopefully Gotham fans won’t get majority over those nuisance checks

[fiery delta]

Smooth mate by Rook, Queen and Pawn - as I presented in the possible continuations is a nice ending of this match in the actual position. If we give Rooks for nothing it may look like we lost them during the match.

[jovial magnet]

Kb2 is winning by a landslide

after 38... Rd2+ we have 4 options for move 39

only one that lasts long is Ka1 so hopefully that doesn't get played, but it probably will :c

because the queen can't check on e5, so Qc2 and there are a couple of checks we can give

Kc1 is mate in 1 clearly

obviously

whichever synonym you prefer

39 Ka3 Qxc5+
40 b4 Qc3+
41 Ka4 Rxa2#

the prettiest one in my opinion is:
39 Kc3 Qc2+
40 Kb4 a5+
41 Kxa5 Qxc5+
42 Ka4 Rxa2#

I wonder what will get played

I think Ka3 is most likely

but idk

like, it would seem to be the main reason to go to b2 instead of staying in the backrank

[weary ember]

Why does it matter? All roads lead to mate

[jovial magnet]

it doesn't, but I still think Kc3 is a nicer mate :v

[jovial magnet]

yoooo

more people are voting for Kc1 (mate in 1) than for Ka1

lmfaooo

sadly, the most voted one is Ka3

the belief in surviving overwhelmed the want to attack the rook

so I won't get the checkmate I wanted

:c

if gotham keeps playing kinda instantly, this should be over by saturday

[drifting kiln]

lol

ka3 winning over kc3

i guess we get mate in 2 instead of like 5

[jovial magnet]

funniest is kc1 winning over ka1

rather m1 than go to the corner

[heady plover]

it was a good run

actually it wasnt

huge throw from the low rated participants

[unique cliff]

[unique cliff]

Hmmm

Ggs!

[median wraith]

Well, at least The World has lasted 40 moves against Gotham. I guess that's something. GGs!

Will there be a post-mortem analysis of the game some time? It would be a great learning opportunity for us all.

[drifting kiln]

wow...

low rated play until the end

o7 everybody, it's now mate in one

[barren hatch]

o7

I cannot believe they played b4, the classic low elo blunder attacks queen=best move on the board, regardless of circumstances. I think Ka4 kept us alive for a bit longer, but it lost.

[barren hatch]

I mean, would you trust a sub 1500 to close out a game without a single blunder?

[drifting kiln]

king a4 makes us lose faster lol

you mean 40. ...Ka4 right?

[inner iron]

That would kill you on the spot...40 ... Rxa2#.... 40 a4 would have been a classic low elo blunder...

[drifting kiln]

its still a bit of a mystery to me how to get the world playing solidly. In the magnus game we we're playing very reasonably in the middlegame

maybe because it was 960? like all the non-reading players were split?

[ocean glade]

It's written, it's gonna go 41. Ka4 Rxa2#
Conclusion: We're cooked

[drifting kiln]

cant wait for the recap where levy screams "the rook!!"

[barren hatch]

Oh, I think I know what it was, I was looking at the pawns when I was seeing Ka4, I figured he'd check with the pawn, and the king would run. I dunno, after seeing Levi's king run video I kind of default to simply running the king up the board when I find myself in a terrible position. Won a lot of games with it. 🤷‍♂️

[ocean glade]

@ocean glade , he is the one you should play against after Gotham 😆

[barren hatch]

Me? Or the world?

[ocean glade]

You and only you

[barren hatch]

Sure, you down for 5 minute or 10 minute?

[inner iron]

Where will this meeting take place? I wanna watch

[barren hatch]

Sure, my profile is ChaosOpen

[inner iron]

ok I'll check it out

😄

[barren hatch]

@ocean glade

[inner iron]

Play him Lider, I must watch this battle.

[ocean glade]

Maybe tomorrow, I'm on an English class (I'm Peruvian)

[inner iron]

Booo!

Ok, I'm going to eat then. See ya'll later. 😄

[ocean glade]

See ya!

[barren hatch]

He said he sent me a challenge.

Then never responded

[compact gale]

Yes, let's do our post mortem after the game officially ends in 11 hours-- on this channel!

[forest current]

tbh i joined for the cool role colour

😛

[crude gull]

It’s very… bland

[forest current]

:((

[fiery delta]

Also can't wait for the recap from GothamChess and more people. Not necessarily using chess-engine, but that might help finding/rating better alternatives quickly.

[unique cliff]

Ggs

[heady plover]

no ggs from me. huge throw

low rated players should not have participated

[potent cedar]

Post mortem is simple😢
First 16 moves were great: level
Then we played c4: losing
Then we played g4: lost

[compact gale]

Even after 21 g4? we were not lost, on our back foot, certainly. 21 .. e5!! 22 Re4! Nf4 23 Rxf4! exf4 24 Qxf4 we are down the exchange but got a pawn and secured our kings safety.

[compact gale]

Rather gentle and generous assessment I say. But an interesting cyber opinion.

[potent cedar]

Nah a pawn down and terrible position, against levy thats lost to me😥...

[fiery delta]

Interesting that the chess-engine evaluation suggests to keep the pressure on the pinned f6 Knight in move 13. First capture gave us a draw position, but second capture on f6 gave us disadvantage. He also suggests c4 as well as h4 at some points, like was discussed during the match in this early stage.

[compact gale]

I'll agree it is lost. We would last about 30+ moves longer, but there is not much hope for us to use our extra pawn, especially since it is the backwards d4 pawn. We just get grinded down.

[potent cedar]

Seems no ones interested in post mortem here... maybe time to start planning how be can make world chess sensible again.

[hardy forge]

can u take away ts role

[tender grove]

#info-vs-theworld

[compact gale]

(from @inner iron )

(14 Bxf6 should be Bxf6.)

[inner iron]

Also, notice that most of these top voted moves that were mistakes were not what the discord team recommended... That's an issue with people voting without first looking at the discord recommendations. If the population would have voted after reading the discord recommendations, this game could have ended very different.

recommended moves instead of the popular vote..
14 c4...
17 h4... wasn't played c5 played instead.
18 g3 was recommended, not h4, diff between g3 and h4 is negligable... funny how when playing g3, though, chess.com review says that suddenly g3 is the best move...
21 Re4 was recommended.
22 Recommended NOT to play gxh5. and said to instead play Re4... (they hadn't played it last time when recommended.)
35 No more recommendations by this point from the discord team.

[fiery delta]

I watched video from GothamChess, and (from what I understand) he admitted that he didn't calculate 22. Re4 after his Rook sacrifice. This could still save us.

[compact gale]

After 22 .. Nf4, we sac our ROOOOOOOOK for his Nf4, instead of accepting his rook sacrifice. After 23 Rxf4 exf4 24 Qxf4 we have scooped up his super knight and e-pawn for our rook. We are losing, but not by that much.

[hardy forge]

yo @compact steppe sry for ping but can u remove my “world team” role cuz i think ts name color is wabi sabi thx

[compact gale]

I think you can just toggle your emoji joining the team in #info-vs-theworld

[hardy forge]

Ok thx

yay

[zinc mauve]

why do we still have this channel 😭

[unique cliff]

A memory 🙃

[hasty schooner]

Let's offer a draw!

[coral bramble]

<:profile:1016802308278976642> Aditya (not_aditya_07)

This is the Chess.com profile of not_aditya_07. Take a look!

<:endgames:1016772673965137962> Information

Name: Aditya (not_aditya_07)
Premium Member: False
Moderator or Staff: False
Streamer: False

<:Rated:1016802315937775657> Ratings

Rapid: 639 (671 peak)
Blitz: 286

[compact gale]

The game ended, we were checkmated.

[hasty schooner]

Did we win?

[compact gale]

You tell me. https://www.chess.com/votechess/game/386700

[hasty schooner]

how did we win

i thougt they were gms

[zinc mauve]

one can hope..

[compact gale]

Fishing are we? No GM's were involved on either side.

[hasty schooner]

me too

[scenic nest]

the match still didnt end?

[indigo summit]

Yeah the world lost against Gotham kind of sad to see the result but it was expected since gotham knew the ideas in the caro kann to well and the majority of us chess players doesn't even know like 20 moves into theory so I was happy that we atleast played well for a while before losing.

[compact gale]

Here is what we ( <@&1410727546496221334>) intend to discuss with chess.com staff. Do you have any comments or suggestions before we do that?

**Our feedback and suggestions after the TW vs GothamChess **

Suggestions

• Reward (or enforce) both reading and participation in team chat.
  Requirement for voting?
• Implement a move freeze at the beginning of our turn for discussion and analysis.
  Gives coaches and analysts time to analyze and make recommendations.
  Analysts do not have to make recommendations against multiple possible responses by the opponent. This is important! Analysts are burning out trying to analyze 3-5 responses every move.
  Consider a 48 hour turn for the world, 1 day to analyze, 1 day to move. Titled players might want a 48 hour turn as well.
  Gives both sides more flexibility with dealing with their life outside of the game!
• The Titled Player's move should not be announced until after their turn of 24 hours has expired so their moves are predictable like ours are.
  This predictability would really help The World team. It's actually not fair to us that our opponent can spring moves on us at any time.
• Pinning of coaches/discord/top messages would be very helpful!
  So would the ability to search messages (including archive)
  The ability to link a message no matter where it is.
• Disallow fake accounts used for shilling/trolling/cheating. There should be requirements on players accounts in order to join and participate in the game. Such accounts have caused serious disruption to several of the The World games. Chess.com must have a better response than we have seen to date.

Feedback

• We were very happy with Coach Dane's coaching!

[compact gale]

@high epoch @ripe cloud The World Team Admins/Players would like to discuss our feedback with you regarding the GothamChess game and future vs TW games. Let us know if you are interested.

[turbid ravine]

These suggestions are interesting. However, if we apply the new time controls you suggest, it will take an entire month to play 10 moves. This is too long to my taste and I wouldn’t mind so much if I am not able to play a move one day, since it’s vote chess and my vote doesn’t have a big influence on the issue. Also, this might seem dumb, but we could put the chat above the game instead of below to ensure people read it at least a bit before they play their move. It wouldn’t do much for people who don’t understand English or chess notation, but it would still be a major improvement. Pinning titled players messages is also a great idea, but if you want to have more messages pinned than only theirs, there has to be someone who pins the messages. One person cannot represent a majority, so their pins will inevitably be biased towards certain moves, and if they aren’t looking at the chat almost 24/7, the pin function will be practically useless. Maybe allowing more people to pin would fix this, but if we do so, there’s a chance too much messages would be pinned, especially if the persons disagree on the move to play and both pin every message encouraging people to play their moves.

[compact gale]

Thanks for caring enough to respond! With each side taking 24 hour turns, we would get 15 moves in 30 days. In 48 hour turns we get 7.5 moves. This is a common time control for vote chess and daily chess. An interesting compromise is 48 hours for The World, and 24 hours for the Titled Player, which would give us 10 moves in a month. The idea about putting team chat above the game board is good one that has come up before, but we should add that one. The coaches posts should be separated or pinned. A related idea is that the most up voted posts by anyone are pinned.

[fiery delta]

In my opinion there should be two separated vote-chess matches. One with players of ranking upto (for example) 1200, and one above this ranking (like 1200-2000). I really enjoyed vote-chess with Gotham because it was my first correspondence-like chess match which I always dreamed to play.

[compact gale]

Interesting suggestion. I'm not sure they would go for that. The higher rated game would have a much smaller number of players.

Also, I don't think we want to exclude players over 2000.

I forwarded your suggestion

[fiery delta]

Of course the upper bound was just an example. Also if the number of players is an issue, these both ranges can overlap, so let's say upto 1500 and from 1200+ ranking points. The opponents of the matches must have appropriate level too. This idea will bring much more fun for players of all levels and also give stronger players their own high level match. Thanks for forwarding.

[compact gale]

Nik and I did meet with Sam Copeland, Head of Community at chess.com, creator of the Magnus and Gotham games. We felt they were listening to us and taking our feedback seriously. They did point out that they are in the middle of a big development push to scale their chess.com servers across the world to give us dependable fast performance. There are some interesting possible next World games (e.g. Hikaru Nakamura), but these possibilities are in early negotiation phase now and may or may not happen. They will take a serious look at some of the easier to implement ideas (move freeze), and liked several others (e.g. improving team chat), but will not be able to implement anything until after the world scaling effort winds down later in 2026.

We did hold firm that unless something makes the admin/facilitation effort easier on us, that the world admin team would not participate in that role again until some of those changes occur. They may launch another game in that time period and we may individually choose to play as regular players, but would almost certainly not try to calculate our responses to multiple possible moves by our opponent. This means the bullet moves will likely easily get a large lead.

@vagrant pelican ^^^

[turbid ravine]

From the Chess.com event page.

[turbid ravine]

Oh wow they just removed it. It's my first time being unintentionally responsible of a leak...

[fiery delta]

Today the match of Judit Polgar against the World has been announced. Looking forward to this event. I'm curious if they changed some rules, that were discussed. The news doesn't state such changes. I just hope it's going to be a fascinating event from the first move.

The second rule "all chess move suggestions must include at least some analysis explaining your reasoning" was not followed by many voters during the match against GothamChess.

[turbid ravine]

For now, what I can see is that nothing changed, the world team still has 24 hours before a move, the chat hasn’t changed and I just had to click on the big green button to participate. Honestly, I agreed with some of the suggestions David said, but I also disagreed with some, so I think that the Chess.com staff should ask more people their opinions before making changes. Regardless, I’m not very confident for our winning chances against such a legend, but I’m sure it will still be interesting and exciting.

Concerning the second rule, I mean, most people just made appeals to authority before recommending their moves with no analysis/doing propaganda, which is fallacious, but maybe wise if they have a low ELO. Still, I would agree that it isn’t convincing and it didn’t stop me from playing 14.Bxf6, an inaccuracy, in the game against Gotham (the chat suggested 14.Qd2, a little bit better than 14.Bxf6, but still worse than 14.h4, according to the computer)

[compact gale]

Play Against The Legendary Judit Polgar In Judit Polgar vs. The World Match - Chess.com https://share.google/masD989SSU9v3KH6T

[compact gale]

You are free to make your own suggestions. What are they?

The suggestions I posted came from a group of players that made suggestions and reviewed the text. We tried to collect good ideas. I'm sure we missed some. So let's hear yours!

---

Realistically it is going to take significant time for chess.com to implement our suggestions. Meanwhile, we can play Judit, an amazing player and path blazer!

[compact gale]

Here were your suggestions earlier, anything to add? We could discuss them and see which ones have support.

[compact gale]

A quick summary of the meeting with Sam Copeland. He did mention they were very interested in a game with Judit in the meeting.

[turbid ravine]

I don't have anything to add, but maybe other persons do, this is why I said that the Chess.com staff should ask more people their opinions. I still believe that the actual time controls are better than what you suggested. It would be very disappointing if the game takes half a year to complete, which would happen if the game lasts 60 moves, especially if it's a dead draw or a game like the previous one. Again, I don't think people would care that much if they are not able to vote one day (at least I would not) because their sole vote has a marginal effect on the final result. What has not a marginal effect is when people are also able to convince a significant part of players to vote for a certain move. Many people will try to do this, therefore no one is essential when it comes to preventing errors. If you are exhausted one day, you can simply take a break from commenting the game and others will do it for you. In all respect, I appreciated your job as a world team admin, you were a great analyzer, but the discord's recommendations were rarely what convinced me to play a move, because analysis made by other players like coach Dane were less simplified and more in depth. I don't think that they were essential either, but they were surely a great starting point to analyze. To get back to the point, I would categorically reject a 48 hours turn instead of the actual 24 hours. Concerning a move freeze, it would imply a time span below 24 hours to make a move, which I'm not a fan of. Maybe I'm contradicting myself, but someone who checks the game at the same time every single day should be able to never miss a move. I think some kind of compromise between 24 and 48 hours could be discussed

[compact gale]

Thanks for your thoughtful response. Not quite sure how I want to respond yet.

[pearl rover]

I don’t agree with this. The analysis team consists of players from all over the world. In the game with Levy, we simply didn’t have enough time to calculate and respond to each other’s proposed lines. Even worse, we also had to account for the moves Levy might choose, which made the calculations more demanding. On top of that, we had even less time to present our analysis to the world. The analysis team needs at least 48 hours of freeze time before giving a recommendation to the public.

Also, the analysis team included Coach Dane; he wasn’t an independent entity. And if you want more in-depth recommendations—like the ones Coach Dane sometimes shared in the Chess.com chat, which were still simplified compared to what we discussed on Discord—then we would definitely need sufficient freeze time.

[vagrant pelican]

In the discussion @compact gale and I had with Sam, he was open to 12 hrs of freeze and 12 hrs of voting period. In conjunction, the titled player’s move gets played in 24 hrs as well (similar to regular club vote chess). This probably gives a good balance of not elongating the game too much but at the same time removes the necessity to analyze multiple different lines and adds predictability - so we would know exactly at this time of the day we’ll see opponent’s move - then we have 12 hrs to analyze and 12 hrs to vote - same time every day (or every 2 days because 1 day we’ll be waiting to see opponent’s move - that time can be used for “pre-move analysis” if anyone wants to do that)

[compact gale]

12 hour freeze time is not fair to all 24 world time zones, especially taking into account sleep and work schedules.

[median wraith]

My genuine take on the Gotham game is as follows:

1. Not everyone read the recommendations / joined Discord. Basically there were two teams playing against GothamChess: The Discord World Team, and the Chesscom World Team. These two were not in sync, thus the previous game ended with a loss.

2. At a critical moment (think of when the world played c5, a one-move threat which worsened our position) the world was divided between two excellent queen moves which would have improved our position. The votes were distributed, therefore, c5 won. Any steps to help unify the votes would significantly improve our chances in the future.

Moving forward, I would like for you consider the following:

1. Pinned messages on chesscom: Could help The World Team find the official recommendation.

2. Restrictions in the world team chat on chesscom: Quoted comments should not be editable, reducing the risk of trolls altering the official recommendation.

3. Nominating World Team Mods: Having someone with moderating privileges (even occasionally) oversee the Private Team Chat could help prevent trolling behavior. I understand this would be extremely hard to execute, especially for such a long time, given our limited time and resources. Nevertheless, I thought it was worth mentioning/ considering.

As for the timing, I agree with David, the 12-hour freeze time would be unfair to different time zones. How about 36 hours? 12 hrs to calculate, then the official recommendation comes out, then players get the chance to vote (24hrs)?

With that said, I'm looking forward to playing with Judit Polgár. I sincerely hope we can find a way to unify the team, play a fun game and learn something.

[compact gale]

The 12 hours of analysis is the most serious problem. We need 24 hours for all 24 world time zones to participate. Once we have good analysis, voting is fast and easy and 12 hours of voting might work out ok.

Quoted comments not being editable is an interesting idea I hadn't seen before.

It would be especially nice if the interactive game boards could be quoted.

Message pinning and top voted messages were discussed in our mtg and they are open to rewriting that across their platform. That said, they need to prioritize their dev team's work, and there are other high priorities beyond world vote chess.

[compact gale]

Let's discuss the game here?

[river prawn]

bruh we are cooked

it's going to be like GothamChess again, people who don't read the chat vote for some garbage move and we lose

except this is 1.e4 e5 so instead of getting slowly crushed positionally, we get obliterated with some obvious tactic

like 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.0-0 Nxe4 5.Re1 d5?? 6.d3 Nf6 7.Nxe5 gg

if the game is already objectively lost in the first 10 moves, I hope that convinces chess.com to change their format for "X vs the World" games

hmm

[vagrant pelican]

We’ve suggested changes and some of it could get implemented later this year

[river prawn]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.0-0 Nxe4 5.d4 exd4? 6.Re1 is also gg

[drifting kiln]

and we're back!

[compact gale]

43,663 players so far have joined cc

[river prawn]

what are some of those changes?

[drifting kiln]

i'm not sure if this is a good strategy 😅 I've noticed that overtime the lower elo players drop out of the game/get lazy to vote. So i think drawing this on as long as possible may be our best bet for getting our accuracy up

[river prawn]

then we should go with the Morphy

because the Berlin forces us to make a difficult move on move 5

if we screw up there and play the move favored by beginners, the game is already lost

[river prawn]

we saw in the Carlsen game accuracy improved throughout the game, likely for that reason

[drifting kiln]

even if it kind of sucks to fight them, i think this time we should try to get our move recommendation out as fast as possible. even if we can't prevent the low elos this is basically all we can do

[river prawn]

next move is obvious

2.Nf3 Nc6

[drifting kiln]

timezones suck though

[river prawn]

2.Nf3 Nf6 is never going to win

[drifting kiln]

yeah vs carlsen was a pretty long game

[river prawn]

so we need to focus on 3.Bb5 a6 or 3.Bb5 Nf6

[compact gale]

It is very easy for TW to drop an early pawn in the morphy, as happened against @ElDivis

[river prawn]

that is a major decision, and low Elo players are relatively evenly split between 3..a6 and 3..Nf6

so we could probably influence the outcome

[river prawn]

then Berlin

[drifting kiln]

are we sure she will play the ruy lopez?

[river prawn]

I'd rather test our strength right away

[river prawn]

over 95% of games, so yes

[compact gale]

When are you thinking of doing move recommendations?

[river prawn]

let's get a poll set up for move 2 so we can make a recommendation

[drifting kiln]

we have 24 hours right? also judit's move goes for 24 hours so it will always be the same time. Maybe we could get a move out in the first 12?

for me rn, judits first move came on 8 in the morning so it's a great time for me to be able to look

[river prawn]

no it won't be the same time because she doesn't have to take the full 24 hours. She only took about 15 hours this time

[drifting kiln]

ah i thought they implemented that...

[river prawn]

no

Move 2 polls:

2.Nf3

2..Nc6
2..Nf6
2..d6
2..f5
2..d5
Other

[drifting kiln]

what if we played somekind of sicilian or something? it might give us an advantage if she plays 95% ruy lopez games

[river prawn]

2.Nc3

2..Nf6
2..Nc6
2..Bc5
Other

[river prawn]

not possible, e5 will win the vote

[drifting kiln]

-# (sorry i still suck at notation lol)

[median wraith]

We do have 24 hours, and so does Judit. She may take less time, or more, in case she has more important things to do (so she cannot lose on time).

[compact gale]

1... e5 is leading by 10%

[river prawn]

2.Bc4

2..Nf6
2..Nc6
2..Bc5
Other

2.f4

2..exf4
2..d5
2..Bc5
2..Nc6
Other

2.d4

2..exd4
2..Nc6
Other

Let me put those all in one message

2.Nf3

2..Nc6
2..Nf6
2..d6
2..f5
2..d5
Other

2.Nc3

2..Nf6
2..Nc6
2..Bc5
Other

2.Bc4

2..Nf6
2..Nc6
2..Bc5
Other

2.f4

2..exf4
2..d5
2..Bc5
2..Nc6
Other

2.d4

2..exd4
2..Nc6
Other

I think that's everything that she could play

someone set up those polls

[compact gale]

Fair warning, the previous World Admins are not facilitating this game. Many are playing tho. If someone else wants to take that on, we can grease the skids for you

@slow breach has checked in here and on cc