next-move-discussion

[river prawn]

After h4, we have 4 moves we can play, g3, Kg2, a queen move, and Rad1

[compact gale]

Chess.com game site is working now!

[tender grove]

nOooo

[slow breach]

Glad to see everything is working! By the way, just a thought - perhaps we can share our "group recommendations" between moves, and when it is our move, we could share only our recommendation against Levy's current move? In other words, perhaps it is slightly more effective to advertise our specific advice to playing h4 so it doesn't possibly compete for attention with the other candidate moves Levy didn't play?

[outer lance]

Makes sense.

[slow breach]

So, something like: "Gotham played 17....Nd5, let's play 18. h4 (insert explanation here) and then finish with an advertisement to be a part of the discussion by joining Discord

[compact gale]

Updated

[slow breach]

Awesome, thanks! I made one more pitch for 18. h4 before calling it day. Thanks to everyone for contributing to the team discussion and continuing to stay as positive as possible as we ride the wave together! 🙂

[vagrant pelican]

After Levy moves, we usually do that

[compact gale]

Do you want to repost your thoughts from this morning? Otherwise I could post an image of it

[vagrant pelican]

It’s only when we’re waiting for Levy move, we keep publishing the whole list

[compact gale]

So now that he has moved we have

I suppose we could say Since ...

[river prawn]

okay where do we put the queen tho

assuming h4 wins

because if Qd2 wins, then obviously we play Rad1 next move

[outer lance]

Against most moves, I think we can get away with playing a pawn push to g3, and then go for some Q moves.

If something like this 18.h4 b6 is played, then 19.cxb6 axb6 would be hard to stop if we wanted to, right?

. 9.cxb6 axb6 helps develop Blacks' R without him having to move it, other than that I can't see anything really wrong with that series of moves for White?

[river prawn]

cxb6 is good

the c6 pawn is weak

we put a rook on c1

[outer lance]

Yes, I think so too. Definitely should be included in a poll, for if 18. h4 b6 is played.
But we almost certainly won't need to promote it much to get it over the line, if my guess on most players' being happy to take if they can, is correct.

[river prawn]

correct

at this point, we just chill

if h4 wins, we play g3 and Kg2

[compact gale]

no need to play g3, Kg2 immediately, depends how and where Gotham responds.

[river prawn]

we should play them tho

while we can get them over the finish line

because there will be several queen moves dividing the rest of the vote

[compact gale]

Too soon to spend our time there.

[river prawn]

i don't want to be a situation where we need to play g3 and we can't

[outer lance]

Because of the low vote numbers mostly related to the issue that recently got fixed, it is still way too early to tell, but the vote totals seem to be improving for Qd2.
h4 was about 30-35 vote in front, now it is around 25 in front of Qd2.

I just checked and as of this post h4 is a bit under 20 votes in front of Qd2 now, still very low totals though.

[compact gale]

But both Qd2 and h4 are good moves. I think h4 (or g3) are a bit better,

[outer lance]

Yes, Qd2 would be nice - if h4 doesn't win here.

[compact gale]

So not a panic situation like c5 was

Nh4 is the first bad move at # 5

[outer lance]

About to post a meme in the chess.com team chat - see link below:

https://imgflip.com/i/aaoqit

[compact gale]

That fits our msg, at the risk of exaggerating the diff between moving our queen forward and h4. If we move our queen forward, I think Rh8 is quite likely. If we play h4/g3, I think Gotham might delay Rh8.

If 18 h4, what might Gotham play?

[outer lance]

Besides the fact we are probably not winning, I think the position is still pretty calm for both sides.
b6, b5, Qa5, Q-7... and probably other playable moves for Black, too?
Also Rh8 is maybe a move - especially if he wants to lead us into playing something like g3?

. Since I don't think this is a real chess term, Q-7 meant any Q move on that rank.
. If we play h4 here, I don't think the World will need much convincing to play g3 in most cases though.
. Like I think I said before, g3 should be good against a lot of moves by Black.

GTG, be back in a few hours or so. GL with promoting h4, especially if a lot more people realize they can vote, this turn.

[compact gale]

If 18 h4, what might Gotham play?
Rh8, Qd7, Qc7, b6, b5, a5, Ne7 anything else come to mind?

---

If 18 Qd2, what might Gotham play?
Rh8, a6, a5, b6, Rc8, Rb8, Qc7 .. ?

[outer lance]

Not ATM. But like I said above, the position looks' very calm here, so almost any move that doesn't hang anything could be played by Black?

. I think if Gotham was playing this position against a player closer to him in rating, then Rh8 very soon seems the most likely to me -otherwise it looks' like a waste of a perfectly good semi-open file, for Black?

[outer lance]

I think Rh8 soon against Qd2, mainly for the same reason I mentioned above.

. The same moves you mention against h4 are likely playable for Black too, haven't looked past Rh8 yet.

Bye for now.

[compact gale]

h4 still leading by 24 votes (3%)

[spark temple]

#next-move-polls message
FYI this poll as twice Qc2

[vagrant pelican]

Yes. That was an error

[outer lance]

Qd2 has 302 and h4 has 314 votes, so only in front by 12 as of writing this post.

. I think h4 was as high as 34 in front, at least for one of the last few times I checked before now.

[tender grove]

#next-move-polls message = Qa5

[slow breach]

Very close vote. I just snuck in one last "late night" endorsement for 18. h4 🙂

[vagrant pelican]

We’re preparing for both h4 and Qd2

[proud pecan]

C5 was clapped 🫠

[compact gale]

@wise lotus @vagrant pelican @mint trail Please vote for Other on the h4 poll so it has 4 votes.

[compact gale]

We lost 5 hours on this move due to the chess.com problems. They should give us an extension

Also please vote for your top 3 choices in these polls.

[wise lotus]

I SAID DO NOT PING ME. 💀💀💀

[compact gale]

Please follow the rules of polling for Other moves.

Your vote may be lost if you do not

You must vote for Other and an emoji reaction to the poll that has been assigned to your desired move

[wise lotus]

Well I'm busy! There! Voted! Are you happy now?????? 💀 annoying.

[inner iron]

To stop getting pinged in Discord after joining a specific role, you can
use the Suppress All Role @mentions setting within that server's notification options.
Here is how to adjust your notification settings (steps may vary slightly between desktop and mobile):
On Desktop or Browser

Right-click the server's icon in the server list on the left side of the screen.
Hover over Notification Settings and then click on Server Notification Settings.
In the menu that appears, enable the option for Suppress All Role @mentions. This prevents notifications when any role is pinged across the entire server.
You can also ensure that the Suppress  and   option is enabled if needed. 

On Mobile

Open the Discord app and navigate to the server.
Tap the server's name at the top to open the dropdown menu.
Select Notification Settings.
Find and enable the Suppress All Role   toggle. 

Additional Options

Mute Specific Channels/Categories: If you only want to stop pings in specific, high-traffic channels (e.g., an "announcements" channel) but still receive pings elsewhere, you can set an override for that channel to "Nothing".
    Right-click the channel (or tap and hold on mobile).
    Select Notification Settings.
    Choose Nothing for the notification preference.
Mute the Entire Server: If the pings are a problem across the board and you don't want any notifications from this server at all, you can mute the entire server. Right-click the server icon and select Mute Server. Note that you will still see a red badge indicator on the server icon if you are mentioned directly or if a role you have is mentioned, but you will not receive pop-ups or sounds.

User Settings: You can also turn off notification sounds entirely in your User Settings > Notifications > Sounds, though you will still see the visual red badges for unread mentions.

[compact gale]

Sorry, but no you haven't fixed the problem. Invalid poll votes may not be counted. Please be polite.

[tender grove]

[compact gale]

We need more votes on this Qd2 poll: #next-move-polls message

[scenic nest]

#info-vs-theworld

[compact gale]

Tap the !! emoji with about 475 count in that page

[scenic nest]

no i remove it cause of the extra pings its either from cc

[vagrant pelican]

h4 is maintaining its lead by 25 votes

How are we thinking if 18 h4 b6 is played? The poll is quite divided with g3 Qc2 and Rc1 having 1 vote each #next-move-polls message

[river prawn]

Explain to me how we go from 20k to 40k to 5k

[vagrant pelican]

Can’t explain. This never happened in Magnus game

[river prawn]

I’m thinking someone suspicious happened on the previous move

I mean this move makes sense, there was a glitch

But what happened on the previous move

c5 wouldn’t have won without it

[vagrant pelican]

But that glitch was fixed in like 3 hrs or so after our turn started. It’s still incredibly low number of votes

[river prawn]

Something weird is going on

[slow breach]

Wow, h4 is still leading the polls. This was quite a pleasant surprise. Indeed, the voting numbers are quite interesting here!

We're now within two votes - hopefully people are available to share endorsements for 18. h4 if they feel so inclined. I think it is a positive way for us to play the game and would love to see it. I've made a number of posts supporting this move.

[dense whale]

it just tied, h4 and Qd2 are tied

ok phew h4 got more

[slow breach]

Keep spreading the word if you can. I added a few more posts supporting 18. h4 🙂

Not the end of the world if Qd2 is played, but 18. h4 feels more positive

[river prawn]

Where are all the votes

There aren’t even 3k

[dim girder]

maybe the c5 guys left after he jumped to Nd5 and finally realized they were wrong. people who didn’t want to play c5 left because of c5, and some people left after the glitch.

[inner iron]

There was a glitch previously and people weren't able to vote... There was some bug and our time was ticking even though it was Levy's turn... After a number of hours, it was supposedly fixed, but we now don't have near the number of voters that we did for even the previous move.

[compact gale]

This poll is tied, please vote to break the tie #next-move-polls message

All polls have low voting, please vote so we can make recommendations.

[river prawn]

This is crazy

[unique cliff]

I Think the Game is Equal For now?

Like his king is weak

So mb

[river prawn]

Okay, given the low turnout and very close margin, we can definitely swing this vote

[slow breach]

Keep pushing, Lily! (the h-pawn that is 😉 )

[river prawn]

It’s 737 to 734 now

Look I don’t have a problem with Qd2

It’s just h4 is better

Where do we put the queen anyway?

[slow breach]

Agreed! We've been trudging through the desert, so I'll take a drop of inspiration with 18. h4! 🙂

[river prawn]

I really hope the turnout stays low

Because that will allow us to control the game

[river prawn]

h4 also gives us more moves that we can play, instead of not knowing what to play

737 to 737

Tied

h4 holds the tiebreaker

740 to 737

All the votes are for h4

This is what I wanted

We can actually campaign on analysis, rather than telling people not to play a bad move

I hope the turnout stays low

[unique cliff]

h4 is fine ig

[slow breach]

I'm all in.

[compact gale]

The follow up, if needed, is g3 and Kg2.

[inner iron]

Coach Dane, in that picture in the lower right part, that's Bobby Fischer isn't it?

[unique cliff]

Ohhh ok

[river prawn]

We will play those moves because it gives us something to do

Because there’s not much else we can do in the position until black tries something

754 to 739

Something worked

That’s 730-737 to 754-739

24-2

Impressive

[unique cliff]

[river prawn]

Where do we put the queen

After h4-g3-Kg2

[unique cliff]

I would prefer e2

[river prawn]

I want to play Nd2-Nc4-Nd6

If turnout stays low that might actually get voted for

[slow breach]

Good question. How do we feel about Qe2 to keep the d2 square open for the knight?

Not sure how important b3-b4 will be to achieve. Likely a nice thing at some point, which might also be prepared with a future Rb1 as a "worst case scenario" if we don't play Qd2?

[river prawn]

Okay, idea for the next several moves:
h4-g3-Kg2-Qe2-Rad1-Nd2-Nc4-Nd6

[unique cliff]

Great!

[river prawn]

Not that important since we don’t need to support the c5 pawn unless we play Nd6

And besides, bxc5 dxc5 is good for us

It makes our d-pawn not isolated anymore

[river prawn]

This is the type of game where multi-move plans like this can actually get played

It’s closed and relatively passive for both sides

[slow breach]

I also shared the photo in the Improvers Club "Ask Coach / Community" forum, inviting our improvers group to join us as well 🙂

[river prawn]

You couldn’t do stuff like that if we played 6.h4 or 7.h4

758-741

28-4 over the last 30 minutes

Crazy

[slow breach]

Keep up the positive energy! You're all amazing! 🙂

[wraith ravine]

How good is Nb4 for levy if we put our queen on d3?

[compact gale]

Qe2 or Qe4 are both good for us and the knight has nothing useful to do there and will be kicked away. Not really any good for Gotham.

[vagrant pelican]

Can anyone help draft our initial recommendations based on poll results so far?

[slow breach]

Final push! Let's make sure we get 18. h4 across the finish line. 🙂

[river prawn]

Only 3200 votes wow

What happened?

we definitely made a difference

But why so few votes?

[compact gale]

That is very surprising.

I

[eternal folio]

moving our queen isn't a bad idea, right?

i could think of a few moves he might play, but i'm not sure if the concept is ideal

[tender grove]

hm cool h4 is on the board

[tender grove]

maybe they followed step one

[river prawn]

Final vote is 831-814

[eternal folio]

so what's step 2?

[slow breach]

Great job, team! Quite a turn of events... 🙂

I will have limited availability this weekend, but it sounds like we should be in good hands with building a sensible "positional story" with clear moves to follow? 🙂

[vagrant pelican]

Currently we have g3 as our next move

[river prawn]

ok here's my plan

g3 to defend h4

Kg2 to defend f3 and allow us to defend with Rh1 if necessary

Qc2 to get the queen off the back rank

Rad1 to centralize the rook

Nd2-Nc4-Nd6 to utilize the d6 square we got with c5

if we don't get our knight to d6, then c5 will be a blunder

[slow breach]

Yes, please communicate the plan of g3 + Kg2 early and often to help guide users through these complications. Let's build upon the game chat energy - we're seeing quite a few contributions and people seem to be really buying in to the discussion. 🙂

If it's good enough for Gotham to play ...g6 + ...Kg7, it's good enough for us to "return the favor" with g3 and Kg2 🙂

What a difference 24 hours can make...amazing! 🙂

[river prawn]

What we really need to communicate is Nd2-Nc4 (or Ne4)-Nd6, because people are disheartened by c5

show people that we played c5 for a reason

[slow breach]

Remind me about the knight to d6 narrative on Monday. I assume g3 and Kg2 are relatively safe "weekend plans" at this point?

[river prawn]

Yeah, we have three parts to the plan, each separate.
Part 1: h4-g3-Kg2
Part 2: Qc2-Rad1
Part 3: Nd2-Nc4-Nd6

And this is why we need to play Qc2

Qe2 we get forked with Nc3, Qd2 blocks Nd2

[tender grove]

im expecting some sort of Qa5 Rad8 Rh8 from levy

idk what order

b6 seems like the easiest break for him to build toward currently

[river prawn]

Qb2 is also a good idea

Qc2-Qb2

This does 2 things:

1. allows us to play b4 to defend c5
2. Prevents the e5 pawn break by attacking the king’s diagonal

[tender grove]

we can already play b4

[compact gale]

Against what? Not 18 .. b6.

[tender grove]

or instead of h4 last turn

Rh8

idk how those managed to send out of order

[compact gale]

Not following you

[tender grove]

if nothing changes about the queenside we can still play b4

it isnt our suggestion but im just saying its possible, Qb2 isn't necessary to help that

[compact gale]

What about 18 .. Qa5 19 b4 ?

[tender grove]

honestly might be fine, i dont trust the world team with that kind of sac though

[compact gale]

What might we play against 18 .. b5?

[tender grove]

also the outside a pawn is pretty annoying

[tender grove]

i bet someone would get all of r/anarchychess to vote for cb

im not sure we would be able to beat that

b5 actually seems like a decent move, i wouldn't be surprised if he plays it

[compact gale]

We didn't look at 18 .. b5 earlier. We did look at .. b6.

[tender grove]

shutting down his own b6 break would be counterintuitive but he can target* our queenside pawns (Qa5-a3 Nb4) in some lines

though im not sure why he would need to insert b5

i guess if he hates our a4

but that just seems dumb, our pawns are definitely overextended there

blocking Nc4 later doesn't really matter either since we can just go through e4

ok i talked myself out of it, ...b5 is pretty bad

[compact gale]

bad for who?

[tender grove]

levy

[compact gale]

We do have the option of cxb6 e.p.

[tender grove]

nah i think we can just continue our other plans, its not that threatening

even if he gets b4 a5 off

[compact gale]

How so? Looks OK to me. Would be followed by a5.

[tender grove]

Qd3 Nd2 should be fast enough

hmm to be fair something like this isnt very good for us (similar line can occur with queens on c4 and d8)

i had assumed this was bad because his e5 break didn't do anything before but it causes problems here

[compact gale]

I think 18 h4 b5 is worth analyzing. Should we do a poll on that?

[tender grove]

sure

some moves I’ve been considering are a4 g3 Qd3 and a3

pretty sure Nd2 is just a mistake

[compact gale]

19 Nd2 Nc3 seems to cause difficulties for us

[tender grove]

Qg4 e5!

we drop a pawn

so yeah definitely bad

[tender grove]

obviously cxb6 as well lol

though we had discarded it against b6 right

[sharp magnet]

yall played c5?

damn

[tender grove]

the discord didn’t

[compact gale]

18 h4 b5: 19 a4 g3 Qd3 and a3, Qc2, Qe2, cxb6

[sharp magnet]

oh

[tender grove]

ngl b3 makes this position really awkward, if we were going to play c5 it was so wrong

[sharp magnet]

looks almost hopeless imo

[tender grove]

maybe include Rc1 as an option

there might be some interesting stuff we can do with Rc4

mostly just making b4 awkward to defend

ok that looks too dumb nvm

[compact gale]

19 .. Rc1 20 a5 intending b4 is looking pretty good for Gotham

[tender grove]

yeah the point would be allowing b4 Rc4 and some a3 thing but that’s just bad

also Qa5 makes defending a2 awkward again

[compact gale]

so go with 18 h4 b5: 19 a4 g3 Qd3 and a3, Qc2, Qe2, cxb6, Other etc?

[tender grove]

yeah solid list (also h4 is already on the board you don’t need to mention it)

you wrote b4

[river prawn]

That’s why we need to play Qc2 first

I propose 19.g3 followed by 20.Kg2, and 21.Qc2 and 22.Rad1

Then if the position allows we can go for Nd2-Nc4-Nd6

But yeah the queen does not belong on d2

[compact gale]

fixed that

[pale rover]

Qc2 or Qd3

(only two options)

whats stopping us from playing qd3

we should decide on one though

[compact gale]

What are you referring to?

[pale rover]

hold on let me check the poll rq

ok yeah so h4

I suspect b5/a5

[compact gale]

#next-move-polls message

Taking a break, back in around an hour

[pale rover]

Qd3/Qc2 is fine in most positions, but g3 must be played at some point though

[compact gale]

Yes

[wraith ravine]

would the idea behind 18..b3 19.Qc2 be to eventually play Qc4?

[tender grove]

probably

I think Qd3 does it better though

since Nc3 wouldn’t block it

though there are some e5 lines we would need to consider

[vagrant pelican]

You mean b5 or b6 here?

18 h4 b5 poll #next-move-polls message is a bit split among all the options

[tender grove]

it is a surprisingly interesting move

i looked at a few things, a4 b4 a5 seemed bad, doing nothing seemed bad, a4 b4 Qd3 Nc3 seemed interesting but slow

Qd3 a5 Nd2 could be okay, haven't really analyzed it

[vagrant pelican]

Voting numbers were surprising this move. Not sure if it will continue but cxb might be popular move (if they know about en passant ie). So if there’s something much better, we should discuss and align

[tender grove]

#next-move-discussion message anarchy might take over

[compact gale]

18 .. b6 19 Qc2 intending Qc4? Hmmm. I wonder if Qc2 threatens cxb6 b/c c6 is hanging.

[vagrant pelican]

is just simply taking that pawn that bad?

[tender grove]

could be fine

[vagrant pelican]

b5 b4 is creating another outpost for that monster knight

[tender grove]

im wary of our iqp and general a file weaknesses

not sure how we would target c6

say, cb ab Qc2 Qd6 Rac1 instantly runs into Nb4

[compact gale]

18 h4 b6 19 Qc2 Rh8 (say) 20 cxb6 axb6 21 Qxc6

[tender grove]

and this position is just depressing

[silent cloak]

I think we should not play Nd2

Our backward pawn will get weaker

[tender grove]

at what point

Nd2-c4-d6 should probably happen at some point but we need to find the right moment

[compact gale]

Join The World Team for full access to all the GothamChess channels by going to #info-vs-theworld, scrolling to the section on joining and tapping the !! emoji with over 400 count. Now you are on the World Team too.

[vagrant pelican]

We were talking about 18 h4 b5

The more I see this move, the more it looks good for black

[compact gale]

so b3 = b5 not b6?

[vagrant pelican]

I am not sure what had Kybar meant

But then I specifically was asking about how to deal with 18… b5

[compact gale]

I can't follow these interspersed conversations with typos

[vagrant pelican]

Our poll is split on 18… b5

[compact gale]

which polls

[vagrant pelican]

Edited above. I meant 18… b5

cxb might run away with votes

So if there’s something better we need to be aligned

By going b5 then b4, black is creating another outpost at Nc3

[compact gale]

a4 is leading by one rn

[river prawn]

i think we have to play cxb6

a4 b4 is just too strong

[compact gale]

not too impressed with a4 so far ... b4 + Nc3 looking good

[vagrant pelican]

What about this resulting position after cxb?

[river prawn]

18.h4 b5 19.cxb6 axb6 20.a4

[river prawn]

that's honestly the best we're going to get

[vagrant pelican]

Agreed

[vagrant pelican]

I am kind of thinking that as well

18… b5 just looks very strong

If Gotham spends time on this game (which I am assuming he’s doing), he’ll find it

[compact gale]

is the reason you are unhappy with that due to not being able to get our knight to d6?

[vagrant pelican]

With which position? cxb or the one in which black plays b5-b4?

[compact gale]

Its our choice. Do you "like" either of them?

[vagrant pelican]

So far none

[compact gale]

I don't think we are worse than we already were

except for maybe not getting Nd6 in?

[vagrant pelican]

I was thinking of exploring more on this idea #next-move-discussion message

[compact gale]

So one of these?

a4 b4 Qd3 Nc3 seemed interesting but slow
Qd3 a5 Nd2 could be okay, haven't really analyzed it

[vagrant pelican]

19 Qd3 a5 20 Nd2 basically

[compact gale]

19 Qd3 a5 20 Nd2 a4 21 g3 Qa5 and uggh

Let me try another variation on that Qd3 Nd2 idea

[compact gale]

Nah, the Nd2-e4-d6 lines are just not looking so good

[river prawn]

i don't even know

we really screwed up when we played Nxf6+ Bxf6 Bxf6 and c5

we just can't do anything

like it's hard for black to break through

but we can't do anything in the meantime

[vagrant pelican]

Ok. So cxb is the best we can get

@river prawn you’ll change your vote to cxb6 as well?

It’s tied with a4 right now but don’t think there will be any problem as cxb6 will anyway be popular

[compact gale]

19 a4 is significantly worse than cxb6

[vagrant pelican]

cxb6 is now in the lead. Lily changed her vote

I know @outer lance supports that as well

[compact gale]

19 a4 b4 20 Qd3 Nc3 21 Qc4 a5 22 g3 Rh8 23 Kg2 Rh5

Is we have'n fun or wut?

19 cxb6 axb6 20 a4 Ne7 21 Qd3 Qd5 22 Rac1 Rfd8

18 h4 b5 conclusion: 19 cxb6 is quite a bit better than 19 a4

[river prawn]

we haven't been having fun this entire game since we refused to play 6.h4 or 7.h4

[compact gale]

We are fighting to hold Gotham to a draw, and it ain't looking so good

That said, it isn't that easy for Gotham to break us down for the win.

[river prawn]

all it takes is one "Leeeeeeroy Jenkins" ahh moment like with c5

[compact gale]

CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC 555555555555555555!!!!!!

So shall we update our recommendations with this?

[tender grove]

don’t worry, levy’s specialty is losing dead winning endgames with low time

[compact gale]

Do we have a similar problem with the 18 h4 b6 poll if we play 19 g3? Gotham can play .. b5 next since we didn't capture.

[tender grove]

if he plays b6 b5 I’ll eat a sock

[compact gale]

and then when he goes b4 a5 and Nc3, will you eat the other sock? 🙂

[tender grove]

nothing else will happen cuz he isn’t playing b6 b5

he doesn’t have a good reason to waste a turn

[vagrant pelican]

For consistency of recommendations, I think we should change the 18 h4 b6 as well.

I updated my vote to cxb6 in that poll. We can call on others who’ve voted g3 to consider cxb6 given the new analysis/discussion

[compact gale]

Unless we fail to capture on b6 b/c we play g3 and then he gets b5 in after all. Its called the slow pawn slide by attack. 🙂

[tender grove]

the inclusion g3 doesn’t help him

why wouldn’t he just play b5 if he was fine with cb

*if he also intended to play b5 anyway

[compact gale]

I admit I haven't seriously analyzed the b6-b5 slide idea, but it is so similar to our b5 poll, that I think it might affect our b6 poll.

---

Updated

[compact gale]

OK I moved my 18 h4 b6 vote to cxb6. It is now 5-3 for g3 over bxc6.

[vagrant pelican]

@river prawn given our discussion on 18… b5, would you consider voting for cxb6 against 18… b6 as well?

Currently we’re recommending g3 against 16… b6 (it’s unlikely that he’ll play b6 and then b5-b4 if his intention was to go b4 but it’ll help with consistency of recommendations)

Actually, that poll is about to expire in 15 min. We might need to have an override poll asking to switch to bxc6

[river prawn]

I did

Oh wait nvm

Wrong poll

Okay now I voted

[vagrant pelican]

Thank you!

[vagrant pelican]

True. But for consistency of recommendations, would you consider switching to cxb6?

[vagrant pelican]

5-4 now with Lily’s vote

[tender grove]

sure, I wasn’t in love with g3 anyway

[vagrant pelican]

Perfect, thank you!

[river prawn]

We play g3 against anything except b5 or b6

Then we target c6 using the half-open file

[vagrant pelican]

@compact gale you can update the recommendation

[compact gale]

Which recommendation? Did you see the recommendation update I posted half an hour back?

[compact gale]

Oh I see, the h4 b6 poll has changed. I'll update the recommendations.

update #2

[tender grove]

b6 cxb6 en passant

[compact gale]

Fixed

[silent cloak]

Why do we have to play cxb6? It just weakens our d pawn into an IQP

And we must stop Nd2 to be played. WE MUST NOT MOVE OUR KNIGHT YET!

[vagrant pelican]

Because b5-b4 Nc3 is very unpleasant

[vagrant pelican]

The reasoning is mentioned in the recommendation

[vagrant pelican]

We’ll move the knight only when it’s safe to do so

[compact gale]

GothamChess is in overtime now.

[vagrant pelican]

He’s not been online since yesterday

[tawdry quiver]

Gotham still hasnt moved

[lavish crystal]

Yes, I believe so.

[vagrant pelican]

Welcome back!

[river prawn]

Okay g3 is leading by a large margin

[vagrant pelican]

Don’t know when he moved

But team chat is not available

[vagrant pelican]

So we’re good for this move. Can start planning move 20

[river prawn]

I don’t think we can get votes for Qc2

So Qd3 eventually

Not Qd2 because the knight needs to come to d2

[tender grove]

based on this turn's votes we might be fighting Qd2

[compact gale]

I forgot to save a copy of our last recommendation, except for an image.

posted on public for now

I'll repost the move 19 recommendations image on team chat when its back, then find the text in the archive. Unless somebody else has got this already

[vagrant pelican]

There’s something wrong with archiving process

Again

[compact gale]

@ripe cloud Team chat has been down for 30 minutes after GothamChess's move.

[ripe cloud]

I’m not home right now do you have a screenshot I can share with devs?

[compact gale]

This is very similar to what happened last move (team chat down, archiving not completed)

[compact gale]

screen shot above

[ripe cloud]

thank you, will relay this to devs right now

[compact gale]

g3 has nice lead, 42% vs Qd2 18%

[vagrant pelican]

We can start preparing for move 20

[compact gale]

I'm going to post the full image on public

objections?

[vagrant pelican]

With all our recommendations? We don’t need to currently right?

[compact gale]

It doesn't have our characteristic formatting.

I reposted a fragment of the image for just Rh8

[vagrant pelican]

I mean Gotham won’t read the public chat. So why not

We can post

Other than g3, it only has cxb6 recommendation. So it’s fine

[compact gale]

Done

I can take down my posting later, but if people copy it, oh well

[vagrant pelican]

Talking about move 20, I am assuming against b5/b6 we still go cxb6

[vagrant pelican]

What other moves black can play. Queen moves - Qa5, Qc7, Qd7
Rook Rh5
Still b5/b6,
other pawns on king side?

[outer lance]

Yes, and it should get 70%-100% of the lower rated players' votes on chess.com.
So, hopefully cxb6 wins our poll too, for an easier time for us that turn, 😆

[vagrant pelican]

That was our recommendation last time. Not sure if we need a poll for that. We can may be do a yes/no poll asking if we keep it as is

[outer lance]

I like Kg2 against most playable moves besides the two cxb6 ones, so that is what I will probably vote for.

. Black has plenty of playable moves here, as the position is still calm looking to me.
. Basically any move that doesn't hang a piece directly or to a tactic is good for Black, even something as silly looking as a meme move like moving the R back to f8 is probably not losing for Black???

[compact gale]

Shall we do candidate moves for Gotham after 19 g3?

After 19 g3, what does Gotham play:
Rh5, b6, b5, Qc7, Qd7, Qe7, Qa5, Ne7

[vagrant pelican]

What about Qa5?

[outer lance]

Yeah, that should probably be there, too.

[compact gale]

Edited #next-move-discussion message

Shall we go with that?

OK, I'll throw it up there, any suggested limit on # of votes?

[outer lance]

Just did a test, and I don't think there is a limit to the number of votes in the discord poll, if that is what you meant?

. From my test, we can either have one member one vote polls, or a vote for as many choices as they want to pick polls.

[compact gale]

Yes, we can't enforce the limit, but last time with two of our moves tied, we wanted to limit the number of polls, so we suggested we would only choose the top 3 from the 2 Gotham candidate polls.

I'll leave it open

[river prawn]

Knight can’t go to e7, I think you mean Nd7

[compact gale]

@ripe cloud you have a clone @vernal orchid

[river prawn]

Last move was unusual because it was so close for so long, that’s unlikely to happen again

[outer lance]

Black Nd5 - Ne7 loosks' playable to me.

[compact gale]

The poll has been created and announced.

[river prawn]

#next-move-polls message

On what GothamChess could play

Ne7 is not a move

[compact gale]

What board are you looking at?

[river prawn]

Oh wait I’m dumb

Ne7 is a thing

[outer lance]

I must need my eyes checked.
N on d5 can got to e7 or even c7, if Black wanted to?

. Doesn't mean I think he will play it, but it definitely doesn't ....

[river prawn]

I thought the knight was still on b6

I was looking at something else

Ignore me

[outer lance]

Stopped writing my previous message now, because you posted this before I finished.

[river prawn]

Ne7-Nf5 is a thing, which is why we play g3

[compact gale]

So easy to do looking at multiple lines in quick succession

[river prawn]

But if g3 before, then Ne7 is pointless

[vagrant pelican]

What does Qe7 do for black?

[compact gale]

Can't say I am worried about that one. I think the other two q moves are better.

[outer lance]

Yeah, it is possible but I can't see Ne7 doing much for Black here yet - maybe I am short sighted about this, though?

. I think it was one of the two moves I didn't vote for in the poll that just went up, for what Black may do.
. Gotham likes to promote - Backwards N moves are wrong 8/10 times - unless they are forced OC.
. Blacks' position still looks' calm and solid to me, so he could play Nb4, Nc7 or Ne7 and not be in any trouble?
. If Black was forced to play an N move on this turn, then I would guess Ne7 or Nb4 ?

[compact gale]

If black wants to put pressure on d4, eventually will need to move from d5. Also, from f5, the knight attacks d4.

And we did just take away f4 ...

[outer lance]

Agreed all are playable, but I also think the other two are more likely..

. Even though there are probably a few candidate move in the position, if I saw 19. g3 Qc7 in a Blitz or faster game, I would snap play 20. Kg2 .

[tender grove]

unlikely but if you have extra poll slots you could add a5

nvm you already put the poll up

i dont think he'll play it anyway dw about it

[river prawn]

20.Kg2 against basically anything

[compact gale]

Not sure I agree about that. Depends what Gotham chooses to do.

There is currently a 4 way tie for most likely Gotham moves against our 19 g3. If you haven't voted yet, please do so. Which move 20 polls we create depend on the results here.

[compact gale]

We need more feedback on the What will Gotham Play poll after our 19 g3. Please vote - it is a multiple choice poll. Which moves are we most worried about him playing?

#next-move-polls message

Also, check out the announcement at #announcements message

[vagrant pelican]

but it works against Ra5, Qc7 and Qd7 right?

Qd2 will be a popular move next time as well and I'm worried we won't be able to play Kg2. So we need to arrive at a conclusion tonight and post recommendations tomorrow morning

[river prawn]

We need to tell people not to play Qd2, that’s not where the queen belongs

[compact gale]

Why?

[outer lance]

I think you meant Rh5, but otherwise I think Kg2 is good against those.

[river prawn]

Because c5 is only good if we can maneuver the knight to d6 and we can only do that through d2

[compact gale]

What is a good line for getting our knight to d6?

[river prawn]

Nd2-Nc4-Nd6 at some point

Maybe Nd2-Ne4-Nd6

But the knight isn’t doing anything on f3

We have to play g3 to defend h4, then we can move the knight

[compact gale]

Its not easy to find when to play Nd2 without it costing us. It is protecting the d4 backward pawn.

[desert orchid]

Can someone shows me the current position?

[compact gale]

The g3 response leaders are b5-10, Qc7-8, b6-7, Rh5-7, Qd7-5

[compact gale]

https://www.chess.com/votechess/game/386700

[river prawn]

I think we should put the queen on b2

Qc2-Qb2

Rad1 to guard d3

[eternal folio]

how tf did i expect Rh8

[tender grove]

it was one of his 5-6 semi logical moves, seems like a reasonable prediction

[compact gale]

.. Nb4?

[tender grove]

if we love the Qb2 thing we could go through d2, slows down Nb4/Qa5

[river prawn]

Qc2 Nb4 Qc3 Nd5 Qb2

Although Qd2-Qb2 is better

You’re right

Also it gives us another move if Qd2 wins

Since I expect it to win in either of the next two moves

[slow breach]

Hi all! Just briefly checking in. I voted for g3 and will look forward to connecting tomorrow. Thanks for all of the weekend engagement - really appreciate it. See you tomorrow! 🙂

[hardy forge]

is there a way i can still keep the world role and not have the color on my nametag

[compact gale]

We are working up polls for responses to likely Gotham replies to 19 g3
Team chat and archiving are down.

[river prawn]

Kg2

then Qd2 then Rad1 then Qb2 then Nd2 then Nc4 then Nd6

postion's closed, we can do stuff like that

i think Qd2-Qb2 is better than Qc2-Qb2

since Qd2 stops Nb4

plus we don't have to play Qb2 right away

after Kg2 we play Qd2-Rad1

finish development

[outer lance]

Not sure if you can do this- I tried to find a way to do it in the settings.
I think you can do it with a nitro account.

. I don't have nitro, so that is why I said not sure.

[atomic crane]

g3 it helps with the rook attack

[wraith ravine]

Wait actually will ppl see the en passant if b5?

cause given c5 I wonder

[vagrant pelican]

That’s a good point. I didn’t know about it a year ago when I started playing

[compact gale]

We could include a link to a description of en passant in our recommendations.

We have less than 15 votes in our move 20 polls. Also, consider changing your vote so we have a clear winner.

Current polling results:
.. Rh5: Kg2 clear leader
.. Qc7: Kg2 clear leader
.. b5: cxb6 clear leader
.. b6: cxb6 clear leader
.. Qd7: Kg2 clear leader

---

Ok, I scanned too fast. We do have enough for recommendations. Time to draft those.

---

Surprised we did not have any queen moves winning especially against his queen moves.

Our turn ends at 18:08 UTC

Note that the USA switched from DST to Standard Time yesterday.

[compact gale]

Just posted on public chat. If you see any problem or improvements, let me know and I'll update it.

Please help reposting/quoting this post on the first page of public chat.

I'm away from home the next hour

[vagrant pelican]

Good call outs on en-passant

[river prawn]

you know actually Qd2 is fine

no need to take our queen of the d-file

next move either Qd2 or Kg2 is fine

if Qd2 wins i won't be mad

[jagged bobcat]

I think we should try to keep our pawn on c5, so NOT trade on b6 if that is what he plays. If he trades on c5, then dxc5 is better for our pawns and to eventually get a Nd6 in the future.

[compact gale]

We can reconsider that for Move 20 (after Gotham responds to 19 g3), but we would have to change minds/votes.

I think there is concern about allowing b5.

[jagged bobcat]

Mm, that’s Worse to handle. If we then play a3 and trade on b4, we get a backward weak pawn on the b-file

[compact gale]

We can still update our recommendation, just saying we will have to get into more details/lines

[jagged bobcat]

One option is to allow him playing b5, and counter with a4. If then b4, then we could play a5 and maneuver our knight to c4 where it is ready to jump to d6 and before that protects a5

[wraith ravine]

Woah Qd7

How is Qd2 here?

[river prawn]

Okay it looks like Qd2 will win, that’s okay

It had a lot of support on the previous move

After Qd2, Rad1 is good

We can play Kg2 later

[pastel onyx]

YO WHY THE HELL ARE GOOBERS VOTING Qd2

holy hell ppl are idiots

[compact gale]

Kg2 is behind by 175 votes (33% to 17%) to Qd2.

[jagged bobcat]

I think Qd3 is better, not blocking our knight from d2. If he does Nb4, then we threaten him with Qd2 (and then a3 if he plays a5)

But e5 opens for him to play Qh3 which really blocks our king..

[compact gale]

Kg2 is gaining I think, now 31% vs 19% -180 votes behind

[jagged bobcat]

Kg2 is Definitely better than Qd2 imo

[slow breach]

I just supported 20. Kg2 - keep spreading the word 🙂

Thanks for everyone's patience with the private chat issue - I know the team is working on it!

[compact gale]

Qd2 slowly pulling away, -216

[tender grove]

tf why did he play Qd7 that move suck

s

[river prawn]

The queen doesn’t belong on c2 or d3, if we put it on d2 we can play Qb2 later

[compact gale]

Maybe because our king side defense has scared him off from that. So plan B is attack the weak d4 pawn, also connect rooks. Qd7 supports both plan A and plan B

[river prawn]

Now Qd2 is more justified

Because Rad8 is likely

So we need defenders of d4

Against both Qc2 and Qd3, Nb4 is strong

Qd2 stops Nb4

[slow breach]

It's a good feeling to see the top two candidate moves are healthy and positive! 🙂

I think h4 was quite a significant achievement that psychologically turned this game around quite a bit. 🙂

[jagged bobcat]

But what if he plays e5 next (sacrifices a pawn to play Qh3 next)? Qd2 blocks our knight from moving away if we accept the sac

[slow breach]

We definitely want to be mindful regarding the weak h3 square, but a queen landing on h3 isn't the end of the world by itself. If ...e5 is played, Black then needs to be ready to face dxe5 and exf6+, attacking the king. This would also clear the g5 square for our knight which could evict the queen from h3 before a "helper" is able to arrive on the scene to attack our king with the queen on h3

[jagged bobcat]

That’s true. I think he would regret a pawn sac there 👍

[slow breach]

Good thinking though - we definitely want to stay alert for his attacking resources, it's a delicate balance at the moment 🙂

[jagged bobcat]

But wouldn’t actually Qd3 be better than Qd2 (blocking our knight from advancing to c4 or e4 via d2)?

[compact gale]

Yeah, that is an unsound sac. Advantage back to us.

Kg2 20% vs Qd2 29% ( -259)

[wraith ravine]

If Qd2 would it be an idea to Rotate the knight to e3 instead?

After something like Re4?

Or would the idea still be Nd6 after Qb2?

[jagged bobcat]

Still thinks Nd6 would be the real nirvana for our knight, so I would think Qd3 as an intermediary move would either win us a tempo if he go Nb4, because we threaten him to go back with Qd2 OR we can go Nd2 then either to c file or e file on our way to d6 😊

[wraith ravine]

Yeah but does our Queen really wanna be on d3 assuming he doesn't play Nb4?

Cause it's not doing much nor can it go anyway more useful

I mean I suppose e4

[compact gale]

Do we want to continue pressing/advocating for Kg2 ?

Now same percentage but -301

[jagged bobcat]

If he plays Nb4 we win a tempo by going back to Qd2 (as he probably retreats the knight to where he was)

[wraith ravine]

yeah but if he doesn't

d3 doesn't look like the best square

[jagged bobcat]

If he doesnt threaten us, we could go Nd2, then Ne4-Nd6

[wraith ravine]

Right, but why not do that after Qd2-Qb2?

[compact gale]

I think the white squares are better for our queen, then Qd2. That said, Qd2 is also a good move and is "acceptable" and ahead of Kg2.

[wraith ravine]

Actually on that note how good is e4 for our Queen cause it does look quite juicy

[jagged bobcat]

We would only go there if he threaten us with Nb4, then we should be safe on e4

[wraith ravine]

Yeah but what about just Qd3 Qe4 anyway?

(though it's obviously not winning)

since it isn't doing much chilling on d3

[jagged bobcat]

Main point by not having it on d2 is not blocking our knight from going through d2.

[wraith ravine]

No yeah, but just in terms of the square where the queen itself is most useful

[jagged bobcat]

The queen would be more centered on e4 than d2 (or b2)

And more active on light squares

[compact gale]

c4 and e4 are both likely places for our queen to be useful. I am not yet sold on Qb2 as a destination, and we would need to avoid any nasty knight forks.

[wraith ravine]

Wait

ok what abt eventually putting it on g4

and doing some Rh1 stuff

[wraith ravine]

I feel like we'd probably wanna move the rooks somewhere else anyway so we should avoid the knight forks

Though you're fs right in saying we need to be careful

[jagged bobcat]

Queen on g4 could also be an idea

Again, our Queen is more safe from being attacked by the knight if it is on light squares. Also safe on d2, but that is almost the only safe dark square 😁

[compact gale]

Not sold on that yet. .. f5 might be very annoying there as well

[compact gale]

Strange how a centrally stationed oppoenent knight on d5 can cramp our style. 😉

[wraith ravine]

oh my god yeah ..f5 lines are so prickly

we'd be even more suffocated

[jagged bobcat]

But our knight on d6 would be even stronger 😊

[compact gale]

Yeah, he would probably want to exchange the knights off in that case.

[wraith ravine]

I suppose that's also the main draw of Qb2 after Qd2

it's another pretty safe square for the queen which actually allows that rotation

[compact gale]

How so?

[wraith ravine]

If he tries like ..Nb4, Re3 - a3 should shut him out of it

and gain us tempo

maybe there's some e5 line?

but our Queen should be safe

and we can also put the knight on d2 for the rotation

[jagged bobcat]

Our knight on e4 would cover the annoying c3 square for their knight. So getting it forward would be good as defence as well

Then a3 to keep it out of b4. THEN we can breathe

[wraith ravine]

Yeah and there's no actual threat even if he tries to play aggressive before we set these things up

so we should be good

Though I worry about our actual ability to put the knight on d6 vote wise

especially considering theres two ways to do it

[jagged bobcat]

Why? A supported knight on the 6th rank is often considered as strong as a rook

[wraith ravine]

Yeah but the moves before

Idk if ppl not reading the chat would all go for that plan at the same time

[jagged bobcat]

The probability is Worse as we most likely wasted a tempo with Qd2 compared with Qd3 as I see it. So yes.

Now we need to move our queen with 2 unforced moves to make it happen

But it is STILL possible 😁

[compact gale]

I think Qd2 is not gonna be stopped.

[jagged bobcat]

True. So what next?

Maybe solidify with a3?

[compact gale]

We can update our recommendation

[jagged bobcat]

Or Qb2 and if necessary then Rad1?

If a3, then Qd3 is safe for a long time

Important possible trick to be aware of, is that if we first go Kg2 and have our queen on d3, is that it allows him to play e5 without us being able to do dxe5! If we do, our queen drops after Nf4+

A good move if he plays b5 next, would be b4 imo. It prevents him to play b4-Nc3

[compact gale]

I am suggesting updating our recommendation to Qd2

Qd3 is even further behind, and Qc2 even more behind

Currently we are -467 votes

Should we co-endorse Qd2 in our Move 20 recommendations?

Poll?

That we still prefer Kg2, but acknowledge that Qd2 is also a fine move and co-endorse it?

[inner iron]

I think we should have a poll. people respond to those pretty well

[compact gale]

OK, I'll create simple yes/no poll

Is this wording OK: Shall we update our move 20 Recommendations to co-endorse Qd2 along with Kg2?

going once ....

[river prawn]

No

We only did that in the past to prevent a bad move from winning

That’s not an issue here

[slow breach]

I just made a general comment in the chat that it is a good feeling that we are discussing two reasonable moves, and as long as we remain open to both possibilities as a team, we should be in pretty good shape. The general chat vibes seem to be understanding this as well since we are not seeing a lot of "do or die" language.

[river prawn]

Exactly, Qd2 is fine

[slow breach]

I like the idea of co-endorsement, but since this isn't really a critical vote, I think we should save an "updated message" for emergencies in order to try and desperately swing a vote if the team move is completely sidelined and we have a reasonable move vs a clearly bad move as our two choices.

We mentioned ...Rad8 is quite possible here, and I think Levy might also flirt with the idea of ...Rh5 and ...Rah8. I'm not sure if we have discussed that scenario, especially in relation to including Kg2 + Qd2. There could be some sort of timing with ...g5 to try and open up the h-file with hxg5 followed by a timely ...e5 to discover the queen's potential against the h3 square (especially with a king on g2). I don't think there is a concrete line that will crush us, but just wanted to sketch out that possibility so we can carefully examine that possible "trick" moving forward. (again, I don't see a concrete way this lands just yet, but just worth noting potential storm clouds and dreams by Levy)

Just wanted to document that thought before calling it a night - overall feeling quite reasonable about our chances since recovering with h4 🙂

Plenty of chess left to play here!

I think our messaging of Kg2 and Rh1 as needed is good to keep in mind with the abovementioned scenario, but just wanted to throw that out there if we haven't looked into this "attacking dream" by Levy.

[compact gale]

It is uppermost in many minds here, I would say.

[silent cloak]

Qd2 and Kg2 are both fine

BUT DON'T PLAY Rh1 TOO EARLY IT'S A BLUNDER!

[compact gale]

Sample line for that?

By the way, we are currently assuming that Qd2 will win our vote with a 650+ vote lead over Kg2. This has been steadily increating for 4 hours.

[silent cloak]

20. Kg2 Rad8 21. Rh1?? e5! 22. dxe5?? Nf4+!!

If we play 23. Kh2?? it's mate in 2: 23...Qh3+ 24. Kg1 Qg2#

If we play 23. Kf1 or 23. Kg1, we lose a rook

23. gxf4 Qg4+ we still lose material, white has two rooks, black has queen and rook

20. Qd2 Rad8 21. Kg2 Ne7 22. Rh1? e5 23. dxe5?? we lose a knight

[vagrant pelican]

Join The World Team for full access to all the GothamChess channels and notifications by going to ⁠ #info-vs-theworld, scrolling to the section on joining and tapping the !! emoji with over 400 count. Now you are on the World Team too.

[compact gale]

So 21 <anything but moving the Re1>

[silent cloak]

maybe

[compact gale]

Several queen moves and Rc1 are good, right?

Polling Alert! Poll is incoming!

[compact gale]

any other ideas for us?

[compact gale]

With the poll for co-endorsing winning 11-6, I am going to update our recommendation

[silent cloak]

Anyway, we need to somehow promote the idea that Rh1 is impossible after Kg2.

20. Qd2 Rad8 21. Kg2 Ne7 22. Rh1? e5 23. dxe5?? Qxd2 24. Nxd2 Rxd2

This is likely to happen

[river prawn]

that's why we play Rad1

[silent cloak]

On move what? 21 or 22?

[river prawn]

move 21

or move 22

[silent cloak]

are both fine?

[river prawn]

move 21 it will probably get played

[river prawn]

i think so

ok but what do we do after 20.Qd2 Rad8 21.Rad1

black plays Ne7-Nf5 to target d4

[vagrant pelican]

That’s why our knight needs to stay put

[river prawn]

okay, we leave our knight on f3, what else do we do

clearly kg2 doesn't work

our rooks are already well positioned

i mean we could play a4-b4

but that doesn't seem like a good idea

[vagrant pelican]

Why?

[river prawn]

because of Nf4 ideas

i mean it depends on exactly what we play

but we have to be careful

[compact gale]

I don't agree. What are you thinking of? I've seen the lines on chess.com, but they are not forced, and I really don't like not making a clearly better move because there is a tactic we can avoid and warn about

[river prawn]

some of the lines mentioned earlier by @silent cloak

[silent cloak]

Nf4+ sacrifice won't work if we play Rc1 or Qd2

for move 21

[river prawn]

i think Rad1 is simple and strong

we can play Kg2 later

[unique cliff]

Sure?

[compact gale]

You are thinking about .. Rh5 and .. Rad8, right? But not .. b5 or .. b6?

[sacred relic]

The way I see it, Qd2 and Kg2 are both fine, and can probably just play the one after the other regardless of order

[river prawn]

yeah, if b5 or b6 then we take

[compact gale]

I have developed doubts about that being best. Especially for b5.

[river prawn]

idk

if b5 or b6 is played, cxb6 will win regardless of it's the best move

so it doesn't really matter what we suggest

[compact gale]

Yes, that could happen. We may end up recommending it again, but I can no longer conjure the fear of b5-b4 anymore.

I sent out the polls for b5 and b6

And agree that they are less likely than Rh5 and Rad8, but our Gotham poll had a lot of votes for them.

[wraith ravine]

Could we add Qb2 to list of moves for Rad8?

[tender grove]

I still don’t understand Qd7, just seems dumb

[compact gale]

Yes, although we can't modify a poll once it is created, we do have a way to do that via the Other choice. You can vote for Other, assign your move an emoji, react to the poll with your emoji, and then tell us here what your move and emoji are.

That way, someone else can also vote for your move by voting for Other and then bumping the count on your emoji reaction to the poll.

[compact gale]

Qd7 connects Gotham's rooks and makes space for a rook to slide behind for a d-file battery against d4. Also, queen can attack on the king-side after e5 can be played safely.

[tender grove]

id only consider that move if I was confident in getting both e5 and g5 off as black

but that’s clearly impossible

[jagged bobcat]

Definitely better to play b4 if he plays b5

[tender grove]

short term e5 is too weakening, especially if we put a rook on d1 (there are some interesting lines where he can sac a pawn to play Qg4 but they don’t seem super threatening)

it’s so weird I don’t even think it should have been considered

[jagged bobcat]

I mean, if he plays b6 and want to do the exchange on c5, wouldnt that be good for us?

What we should avoid is he getting a pawn on b4. Then he has a dangerous outpost on c3 for his knight (keeping us away from d1)

[tender grove]

yeah targeting a2 and d4 while denying access to d1 is dangerous stuff

[vagrant pelican]

Could you please click on the emojis in that poll?

[jagged bobcat]

🫡

[vagrant pelican]

Anyone else liking going b4 against b5/b6?

@undone zinc what move did you have in mind for b5/b6? if it was b4, then please click on the emojis

[vagrant pelican]

Why is that though? What’s changed that we should not fear his knight at c3 any more?

[sonic harness]

Is there an official discord move for 20. ?

I'm considering Qd2 to connect the rooks and Kg2 to get off the back rank and cuddle (very good chess vocabulary here) with the pawn chain

[potent cedar]

Were doing qd2 anyway

[slow breach]

Hi all! Just sketching a thought that if Levy tries to apply maximum pressure against our d4 pawn, how will we respond? For example, he could meet Qd2 with ...Rh5, with the possible idea of ...Ne7, ...Rad8, ...Rd5 + ...Nf5. In the meantime, we are likely playing Rad1. Qf4 may be an option against ...Ne7, followed by doubling rooks on the d-file. As an absolute worst case scenario, are we holding everything together with Qb2, Rd2 and Red1? Just a quick thought I wanted to share in case Levy throws everything at our backward d4 pawn.

It doesn't looks so simple for him to streamroll us in the center, as four attackers on d4 also will likely involve rearranging his queen in the "attacking" order against d4 in order to actually threaten to win material.

[potent cedar]

Btw can we respond g4 to rh5, haven't analysed it probably but looks like it would give us the ne5 outpost

[potent cedar]

Tbh i just can't see him giving up d5 outpost like that

[river prawn]

Qd2-Qb2 and b4-a4

[jagged bobcat]

We will avoid that by blocking his supporter by playing b4

[vagrant pelican]

I am with you on that. But @compact gale is playing other moves

[jagged bobcat]

I know b4 isn’t on the list if he plays b5. Really don’t know why 😁

Of course we also take away his support pawn by doing en passant, but that isolates our backward pawn on the d-file, which I don’t like. By trading our c-pawn by his b-pawn, we also loose a possible good supporter for our knight on the hole in his position on d6

[wraith ravine]

=Qb2

[vagrant atlas]

I think Gotham will do e5 it opens up the queen. That move would have been stopped by Kg2 but then we would need to decide to take the pawn dxe5 or move the king and deal with the pawn later.

I see no reason to move the b pawn for gotham, because that's going to close the position more with b4, or open up the b file which might actually benefit us.

[vagrant pelican]

If he goes e5 immediately, we can simply take that pawn and win a pawn

[vagrant atlas]

Then he will be able to safely place the Q on h3. It would take about two moves to attack the queen and he’ll start an attack on the kings side. Letting the rooks in.

At least that’s what I would do.

[jagged bobcat]

But if he plays Qh3, we can check him with a new pawn take, and after king takes back, we chase the queen away with Ng5 and our knight would also easily be ready to go to d6 via Ne4+ later

[compact gale]

@vagrant atlas What is your other move for the What will Gotham play poll?

Current Polls:

20 Qd2 Rad8: Kg2 has clear lead with 7 votes of 10
20 Qd2 Rh5: Kg2 has clear lead with 9 votes of 12
20 Qd2 b5: cxb6 has narrow lead with 5 votes against b5 with 3 votes
20 Qd2 b6: Rac1 has narrow lead with 5 votes against b4 with 4 votes

---

Get your poll votes in now, our recommendations are based on those. 116 minutes left in our turn.

[vagrant atlas]

I think g5 is probably a good attack. If we take with the pawn, it opens up some problems. We would have to take with the knight or not take, and risk Gotham taking our h pawn.

Rh5 sounds good, but it feels too slow for Gotham.

If gotham moves the b pawn, we should not take with the c pawn, that will create an isolated pawn and then open up the rook on the a file. If he moves the b pawn, we should defend the c pawn, either with the rook, or the b pawn. I prefer the latter.

[compact gale]

I would call 21 b4 a mistake.

Unless someone can find an error in my analysis.

Which could totally happen, but I have double checked it once and it seems correct to me

I'm going to focus on our initial move 21 recommendations after 20 Qd2

First draft of move 21 recommendations:

---

Initial Recommendations for our Move 21 responses to GothamChess's expected replies to 20 Qd2 from discussion and polling on Chess.com's Official discussion forum:

If GothamChess plays 20...b6, we play 21 cxb6, preventing a5-a4, or b4-Nc3, either of which would gain space as well as targets for Gotham against our queen-side.

If GothamChess plays 20...b5, we play 20 Rac1, activating our queen rook to pressure c6 in the b6-c5 pawn lever.

If GothamChess plays 20...Rad8, we play 20 Kg2, enabling Rh1 if needed to secure us against h-file attacks by Gotham with his rook, queen and pawns.

If GothamChess plays 20...Rh5, we play 20 Kg2, enabling Rh1 if needed to secure us against h-file attacks by Gotham with his rook, queen and pawns.

You can join the Official Chess.com discussion forum to help discuss and analyze the game, vote in polls to select the best moves for The World Team, and promote them in the GothamChess game team chat! Link: https://go.chess.com/PlayGothamDiscord

---

Feedback requested!

[river prawn]

Rad1 will win tho

like we can yell at people to play Kg2 but it won't matter

we should cross-endorse 21.Rad1 after 20..Rad8 or 20..Rh5 because it's better than 21.Rac1, iff the two top moves are 21.Rac1 and 21.Rad1

[vagrant atlas]

I see, a5 is definitely a problem, So, b4 is the wrong move if Gotham plays b5. But if we do play b4, 22 a3? is certainly a mistake.

[river prawn]

if it's between 21.Rad1 and 21.Kg2, that's okay

[compact gale]

Maybe, make your case and and get our members to change their vote.

The poll vote is how we decide. The polls are open for 9 hours, and our initial recommendations can be updated.

70 minutes until our turn ends. 18:47 UTC.

I would like to post our initial recommendations in 10 minutes if there are no changes or objections.

[river prawn]

no im saying we cross-endorse if preliminary vote totals become clear that it is justified

like lander and mamdani

unrelated but that election is today

[compact gale]

Are you based in NYC?

[river prawn]

no

[compact gale]

OK, I was aware of mamdani, but not lander

[river prawn]

but nyc is the biggest city in the US, what happens there matters elsewhere

[river prawn]

lander came in third in the primary. A few days before the primary election, Mamdani and Lander cross-endorsed each other. In NYC, there is ranked-choice voting, which there isn't in vote chess, but we have to be prepared to cross-endorse if necessary

don't think of this as a normal chess game

think of it as a lesson in democracy

[compact gale]

Yes, playing the best moves is only 40% of the effort required

[compact gale]

I am posting our initial recommendations for move 21. We can update this if there are any concerns or later information.

[jagged bobcat]

Where did the Bishop taking on a4 come from? 😁

[compact gale]

Why I am concerned about 20 .. b5 21 b4?!: 21 .. a5 22 bxa5 (a3? axb4 23 axb4 Ra4 24 Rxa4 bxa4) ) Ra6 23 a4 b4 (got it in anyway) 24 Qc2 Nc3

(Fixed was supposed to be a b-pawn, so 24 bxa4 instead of Bxa4)

Gotta love the spell checker ....

[jagged bobcat]

I figured it could be like that. But that wouldnt be a problem after Qb2 and then Qa3 blocking the lonely pawn on its way. Black would have 2 isolated pawns on both the a-file and the c-file. We would have a few good holes for our knight (b6 and d6). I think he will have difficulty both attacking our b-pawn and holding on to his a-pawn

[compact gale]

What move are you referring to? When would Qb2 be played?

[jagged bobcat]

After the exchange of rooks on a4

I mean after a3 axb4, axb4 Ra4, Rxa4 bxa4, then we play Qb2 to both stop his a-pawn and protecting our b-pawn on b4

[compact gale]

25 Qb2 Rb8 and then what?

We are cooked in the 22 a3 line

[jagged bobcat]

Sorry, in stead of Qb2, just support it with Rb1

If then he plays Rb8, we get our knight for further support in time with Ne1 Qb7, Nd3

Or maybe Nc2 instead of Nd3 as the last move there? It would prevent a3 as we then can give up our b-pawn for his a-pawn

[compact gale]

20 Qd2 is on the board! It is now Gotham's turn.

---

km1848 is asking about 20 Qd2 (Rad8 or Rh5) 21 Kg2 Rag8 on chesscom

[outer lance]

20. Qd2 Rh5 21. Kg2 Rg8 looks' like a line we could get into.
    . Moving the same R twice in a row on the same rank, doesn't look as likely to me - so I don't like Rad8 to Rag8 as much for Black.
    . I think Rah8 is also playable for Black, against 20. Qd2 Rh5 21. Kg2.

[compact gale]

I'm not clear when he was thinking of doing that. Played when in what line? Against 20 Qd2 Rh5 21 Kg2 Rag8? Or are you thinking of 20 Qd2 Rag8

We didn't consider Rag8 against Qd2.

I think that is what he meant: 20 Qd2 Rag8

and I replied

Are you thinking of 20 Qd2 Rag8? I think we would still play Kg2, but there are several other good moves for us. I don't think Rag8 is helpful and it would spend another tempo going to h8 after Rh5

---

Gotham is not going to play this.

I thought we might have overlooked a good Gotham move, but we did not.

[tribal stirrup]

I voted for kg2 for the rook moves by Levy, because it allows our rooks more versatility on top of preventing that qh3 move. I am not seeing how Levy switching to fighting our d4 pawn is all that scary, but it's very possible I'm just missing it. For the last two I voted b4. I like the idea of moving the queen to b2; I don't really like it on d2 but it does cover a couple knight hops there. qb2 after b4 still covers the queenside knight hops and allows the rooks to cover move into the middle. The other 2 knight moves are still covered by pawns and the e rook.

If I'm wrong, lmk, there's still time for me to change my votes.

[river prawn]

tf is Rag8

no

Rh5, Rad8 yeah

Rag8 not going to happen

[compact gale]

I already said that #next-move-discussion message

[compact gale]

If Gotham plays 20 .. Rh5 and 21 .. Rah8, we can't be playing b4 and Qb2. Gotham now has 22 .. g5!

[tribal stirrup]

For his rook moves I voted kg2

[compact gale]

Should we add warnings about playing h5 and g4?

Levy could play some poor moves like g5 or e5, but I don't think we need to mention them since he won't play those.

[compact gale]

Warning: Do not play 21 g4? or 21 h5?. Both moves are blunders that weaken our king's protection and sacrifice pawns or more for nothing.

[compact gale]

(lots of errors in the first edition)

[compact gale]

We do (I do) really need a review pass on the recommendations. This one was embarassing for us (me).

[jagged bobcat]

Still convinced that we shouldnt trade our c-pawn for his b-pawn as before though. We keep up the defence easily on the queen side with b4 as said before: …b5 21. b4 a5 22. a3 axb4 23. axb4 Ra4 24. Rxa4 bxa4 25. Rb1 . We can then maneuver the knight and Queen to either defend our b-pawn or he can sac his a-pawn for our b-pawn, which is also fine. Not good to make our d-pawn forever isolated AND loose the strong outpost on d6 for an unexisting threat with his a- and b-pawn

[vagrant pelican]

What about his passed a pawn after 24… bxa4?

[bitter wraith]

Whose move is it

[inner iron]

I think this is the wrong png, but it's correct in the next move forum and on the chesscom site. The 20... b5 21 cxb6 e.p. is correct. Also, it looks like the private chat is working again? So I'll post it there so we can get out of the public chat.

[bitter wraith]

Us or levi

[inner iron]

Levy's move. He has 9 hours remaining.

[bitter wraith]

Ah okay

Well we will have to wait for his move before we any moves

[inner iron]

He could make it anytime though within that 9 hours.

[slow breach]

Private team chat is back in business! 🙂

[jagged bobcat]

He can’t proceed without moving supporting pieces behind it (hence move away the threat on b4). If he does, we can take his a-pawn and he takes our b-pawn. No big problem.

[vagrant pelican]

@compact gale what do you think? You had ended the line you shared at 24… bxa4. It seems we can defend after that

[compact gale]

I'll take another look and check my notes

[slow breach]

Thanks for the consistent messaging team! If Gotham plays 20...Rad8, I see we're recommending 21. Kg2 for consitency. Do we have any concrete objections to 21. Rad1? I think this move might gain quite a bit of traction, so just want to anticipate this possibility in case some other strange move also gains traction.

If 20...Rh5, do we feel particularly inspired to play 21. Kh1 there? I sense preparing Rh1 against ...Rh5 will be quite useful

[compact gale]

corrected version that was actually posted, except for here

[compact gale]

Where do you see Kh1?

[compact gale]

Both are good, but Kg2 easily won our poll after Qd2 won instead of Kg2 last move.

[compact gale]

What is the suggested defense after 20 .. b5 21 b4 a5 22 a3? axb4 23 axb4 Ra4 24 Rxa4 bxa4?

[compact gale]

I mean Gotham is in really good shape with an outside passer, his dominating Nd5. He can place his rook behind his passer and reposition his knight to b5 and bring his queen to d5. We have weaknesses on b4 and d4. We are losing.

g4 is winning! 5 alarm fire!!

g4 is horrible and losing move

[vagrant pelican]

Oh god!!

[slow breach]

Sorry, I was typing quickly before jumping into a meeting. I meant Kg2

[pastel onyx]

chat what the hell is g4

isn't Kg2 better in like every single way?

[slow breach]

Yes, there is an obvious bullet move - see a piece, attack a piece with a pawn (as we did with c5). We need very clear, consistent messaging to get 21. Kg2 across the finish line here.

[pastel onyx]

yeah i was about to say g4 seems like an empty attack without thinking about how that weakens our position, just like c5

i hope we're able to convince ppl to go Kg2 here

[compact gale]

We need to post refutations of g4 quickly

21 g4 e5! 22 Re4 Nf4! is strong

[vagrant pelican]

People will take the rook. There’s a line posted along those lines already on team chat

[compact gale]

That gets crushed by 22 gxh5?? Qxg4+ 23 Kf1 Nf4!

[slow breach]

All hands on deck here. We need to communicate consistently and clearly - g4 must be defeated.

[river prawn]

Oh god people are voting g4

[river prawn]

If 21.g4 wins, black will play 21..e5 and the low Elo players will take the rook and get mated

[slow breach]

Yes, all in. Spread the word - any chess enthusiasts interested in voting will be our only chance here.

[river prawn]

This is literally do or die

[slow breach]

Constant, consistent, positive messaging - we need to get 21. Kg1 across the finish line

[river prawn]

Like if g4 wins, black will play e5 and we will lose on the spot

Because I know 22.gxh5 will win

[slow breach]

Yes, I made it very clear and will continue to post: 21. Kg1 or we lose the game.

[river prawn]

No matter how much we tell people not to

[slow breach]

Any vote other than 21. Kg1 = hitting the resign button

[river prawn]

I don’t even think we’ll get enough votes for sacrificing the queen after gxh5

In other words, mate by move 26

I know GothamChess sees 21.g4 e5 22.gxh5 Qg4+

We never should have gone with h4 because it encouraged people to go for more pawn pushing

I don’t think we have the votes to win

This is how this game ends

I can’t believe it

[slow breach]

There's a positive surge for 21. Kg2 - it's far from over. Let's do everything we can to raise awareness and support this move.

[river prawn]

It’s not enough

1237-1022, 215, 6% cannot be overcome

[slow breach]

Very hard to say at this point - it's either enough or we lose, so we have to do what we can here.

[river prawn]

Do everything you have, this is do or die, yeah c5 was bad but this is just game over

[slow breach]

There's quite a surge for Kg2, especially with the very clear point: 21. Kg2 or we instantly lose the game.

Don't give up yet, Lily. Kg2 or we lose - a very clear and consistent narrative that seems to be drawing some attention

[river prawn]

If the margin reaches 400 I quit

1353 to 1117, 236, the margin is increasing

We never should have played h4-g3

[potent cedar]

Agreed, g4 is badddddddd

[river prawn]

Especially because g4 e5 gxh5 will be played, because there is no way we are stopping gxh5

And no way giving up the queen on f4 will win

So we lose

Mated by move 26

1410-1163

I’ve seen enough

1574-1306

[slow breach]

h4+g3 was a positive plan. If we can't overcome the g4 hurdle, we're lost anyways. The vote is far from over.

[river prawn]

No, we should have gone with Qd2 when the vote totals were low on that one move that we actually influenced

h4 was asking us to make bad moves in the future

[slow breach]

I credit the team for finding a positive way to build the position, and we need to survive critical moments as a team. I definitely share the frustration that we have to desperately try to defeat the "bullet move in the dark," but it remains positive.

[river prawn]

Although, you can’t just play moves that prevent bad moves in the future

Because those moves usually aren’t the best

[slow breach]

At the end of the day, there will always be some sort of decision between "single move attack blunder" vs "reasonable positional move" - we did our best to delay the crisis but eventually we have to support a positive plan even if it requires unifying around a critical moment

[river prawn]

1625-1341

284 now

The margin is slowly increasing

Over 300

It’s over

Leeroy Jenkins out here

[potent cedar]

do most of the voters read any of this? 😢

[river prawn]

No

[potent cedar]

thats the problem

we need some way of making sure they do before theyre allowed to vote, idk how

[river prawn]

You should have to post in the chat before being allowed to vote

[potent cedar]

yh true

though how many are just gonna send .

could we have an elo floor at like 1000

[river prawn]

Elo floor, not Elo cap

[potent cedar]

ooop yeah

[river prawn]

Elo cap means only those less than that rating

I’m probably going to get muted for my rants but I don’t care because I’m not participating anymore if g4 wins

Because we get mated

[potent cedar]

same here

[river prawn]

Because we’re going to take the free rook

50% of players will take the rook without thinking

And then after Qg4+ Kh2 Nf4 people will vote for Rg1

And then Qh3#

[potent cedar]

yh defo, thats why were cooked. i think part of the problem is weve got far too many people voting, at least with magnus game we had a reasonable proportion of non-dummies

[river prawn]

GothamChess is really going to win by sacrificing THE ROOK just like in the memes

[potent cedar]

ah sod we're 370 votes down now aaargh

[river prawn]

Absolute stupidity

[inner iron]

I mean really though... there are people rated 1200 that voted g4... It's baffling a little to me... I feel like I should apologize to Lily... I said not to rating shame, but I honestly don't have a clue how to get people to play correctly... You'll see someone rated 1700+ telling some 900 rated player to vote Kg2, and they'll get in chat and start slamming the Kg2 move and to vote g4... It is just crazy talk!!!

[potent cedar]

so true, like im only 1500 ish and might struggle to see it OTB but it obvs here

[river prawn]

Even if g4 Rh7, g4 is still bad

[potent cedar]

he aint gonna play that no way

[river prawn]

But I know that g4 e5 gxh5 will be played, I think GothamChess played Rh5 for this reason after testing the waters with Nb6, knowing we’d push a pawn to attack a piece

I don’t think we even need any more polls because they won’t matter

[potent cedar]

he played it cos hes not some random gobs**** like all the g4 voters

[inner iron]

I guess I just got tired of voting to prevent a move. We spend all our time voting to prevent bad moves and can't really get into good moves being played because we basically have to pick whatevers in 2nd place to prevent it... I mean I'm trying to stay positive, but if g4 gets played, which it looks like it will. we're done.... Levy is going to have a field day with his review of this game... I can hear him now... "I beat the World with the Caro-Kann..." He is going to be ecstatic when he sees this vote played...

[potent cedar]

seriously though i think a "gotham vs world above 1000 elo" would be much better

cos this is a waste of time when all the titled folk agree on a move but cant sway the vote

aaaaaaaargh 400 down, im off

[river prawn]

Plus he’s going to say “and he sacrifices THE ROOK”

[dim girder]

Omg, how is g4 winning?? we literally played g3 two moves ago, I don’t get it 🙁

i think anyone who knows we will try to attack any piece at all costs and decides to exploit that can beat us

Even if people thought g4 was best, why didn’t we play it instead of g3? What’s the logic - just wasting a tempo?

[river prawn]

He learned that when we played c5 after playing b3

It’s our fault for pushing h4 over the finish line a few moves ago

There were only 3k votes for that move, and we definitely made a difference in making h4 win instead of Qd2

[dim girder]

🙁

[river prawn]

However, I think g4 still would have been played after Qd2 Rh8 Rad1 Qd7 Qb2 Rh5 g4

Not quite as bad but we still lose

[river prawn]

Next time we are not playing h4

Too great a chance of bad moves after that

In general moves like that

But we shouldn’t have to play like that

We shouldn’t have to throw out certain moves because of future bad moves

Let’s be real here, even if it wasn’t g4 this move, it would be some equally bad move in the next couple of moves

All GothamChess has to do is wait for us to blunder

[slow breach]

Don't kick yourself over supporting a positive plan, Lily. h4 + g3 lifted my spirits and gave the team a fighting chance. After c5?? in the Magnus game, the team sobered up and started voting together. If we can't prevent 21. g4?? , then there was no way to save the game in the long run. I appreciate everyone contributing to a very instructive team chat, and I'll still advocate for 21. Kg2 .

[river prawn]

This is at least 30% our team’s fault

But not more than 50%

I’d say 40%

h4 +g3 +Kg2 was a bad idea

We should have played standard development

Qd2 + Rad1

[compact gale]

You mean Kg2, right?

[river prawn]

h4 +g3 was played in good faith

The problem is low Elo players though that that meant pushing pawns in front of the king was good and went for g4

I joined a team for vote chess where we won’t have to worry about garbage like this

Just a few players who listen to each other

[compact gale]

they had this:

[river prawn]

We shouldn’t have to avoid playing good moves because of the fear that we might play a bad move later

I hold myself partially responsible

[compact gale]

g4 had germinated earlier than this. Beginners wanted to attack. Rh5 was just the kind of move that the World just can't stop themselves from kicking.

[river prawn]

You think g4 would have been played in response to Rh5 even without h4?

[compact gale]

Yes

It is a bullet move

[river prawn]

Honestly if 6.h4 or 7.h4 had won we wouldn’t have even made it this far

There’s no way we would have played those positions correctly

[eternal folio]

so should we blame the g4 trolls

[river prawn]

Yes

[compact gale]

Yes, that was the fear then.

[river prawn]

h4 + g3 was a good faith idea

g4 trolls ruined it

[compact gale]

Right

[river prawn]

I bet GothamChess could have won in 7 moves if he wanted to

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nd4 4.Nxe5 Qg5 5.Nxf7 Qxg2 6.Rf1 Qe4+ 7.Be2 Nf3# all those moves would have won

If I ever become a famous chess streamer that’s what I’m doing

Before Kasparov vs the World, there were several other games against other GMs that ended quickly

Very similar to this game

Kasparov vs the World had the infrastructure to prevent bad moves from winning

[slow breach]

Yes, good catch - a typo.

[river prawn]

There hasn’t been a single good GM vs the World game since then except maybe Carlsen vs the World

The main problem is most people are bad at chess

And they don’t listen to the chat

They don’t think

If only Rad1 and Re4 voters voted for Kg2

[crude gull]

Hi! Can someone tell me what’s in second place?

Kg2?