Music Production

[stiff raptor]

Nah

[stark tulip]

Okay sick, I'll look into it,
I just use my everyday headphone (I like the sound quality) and trun a 3.5mm cable to a 1/4 inch jack into my interface or into my speakers

[torn lynx]

thats a thing?

[stark tulip]

I dont know, im more thinking from like a data side I guess, like a Cat 5 cable can handle up to 50m before it begins incurring data delay

[torn lynx]

I have a couple 10 ft audio extension cables

[torn lynx]

ohhhh okay

[proper crane]

not in this application i don't think

[stark tulip]

Funnily enough, this video i just saw on insta literally describes my conflict

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DYzsaSdDwwa/?igsh=NmFsanptcnR2MWQ=

[torn lynx]

I do that too

[proper crane]

im pretty sure 10 or 20ft cables should be fine for studio use

[torn lynx]

I just use my monitors to check after I finish a project

[stark tulip]

@proper crane @torn lynx when i comes ti Mic cable length, i have no idea, ive never tried it to find out, but my main thought came purely from, i work with data cables for somethings and you can incur data delay, but if no latency issues with mics, im sweet

[torn lynx]

oh okay yah

[stark tulip]

I dont even have monitors, i use like $20 computer speakers and I still think it sounds sick

[torn lynx]

lmao, the first monitors I used were $5 from Goodwill

I currently use a pair of roland rh 300s

[stark tulip]

Nice haha I'd be lucky to find any second hand even remotely that cheap in Aus lol

[torn lynx]

and a pair of $15 oontz headphones as a reference for what a pair of generic bluetooth headphones sound like

[torn lynx]

I had to get mine on reverb

[stark tulip]

Yeah I use my $30 pair of Bluethooth over ear headphones when I record because i think they sound decent
But my gaming headset does not like the frequencies when I record ha

[torn lynx]

before these I used a pair of heavy duty pilots headphones that a friend found at the scrapyard and repaired

[proper crane]

i'm aware (i'm currently studiying networking funny enough), i've just never experienced any of these issues myself. I've run cable for corporate events before, and in my head there's probably a reason 100ft is the longest length of cable we have, but by that point i haven't had any issues in my own setup

[torn lynx]

ah lol

[stark tulip]

Oh right okay, yeah I think 100ft is around 30m so thats fair

[torn lynx]

I also have a pair of Jabra Evolve 75s as work headphones cuz a friend of mine used to work at Trevor Project and thats the model they use, and then I use a pair of Altec Lansing Comfort Q+'s for most of my music listening but those arent for making music

I gotta keep my headphones separate and for different things or I tweak out

[stark tulip]

Thats fair, I just don't have another option right now ha

[torn lynx]

yah thats fair

[stark tulip]

I am looking at some Behringer Studio Headphones though for me to use for my music prod but I'm also big on use what I have access to

[grave marlin]

Tips for recording in an untreated room with a condenser mic: Don't.

Lmao no doing what xenon said should be totally fine. You may notice your vocals go from too roomy to "too dead." That's where adding your own reverb comes in (after compression and eq of course). You want your vox to be dry and have as little room as possible at recording so mixing and flavoring becomes easier because you're not fighting with your recording spaces acoustics.

Or just do what I did and grab a SM57 and put the A2WS foam pop cap on it. Tada. Dry mixable vocals.

Also grab a pair of original DT990 pros. They just dropped in price because a new version came out. I got em and they're fucking incredible.

[stark tulip]

I did have to laugh at the top line though

[grave marlin]

Fun fact: Crown The Empire recorded their vocals for their original EP that exact way. Condenser in a closet.

[stark tulip]

But nah I have looked into the Shure mics but just more high priorities monitarily than buying new mics and what not, so trying to work with what I have

[trim harbor]

Vast majority of low budget bands do that lol

[stiff raptor]

W

[stark tulip]

My goal is to do stuff independnet and maybe eventually form a band around it but its hard to find people with the similar like mindedness in my area

[stiff raptor]

all unbroken reign vocals are recorded that way lol

[grave marlin]

Yeah I know. Just throwing that fun fact out there lol

[stark tulip]

What about condensor in a car technique?

[stark tulip]

I have a USB Condensor that I can connect to my phone, but I imagine when I port it to my daw it'll sound like absolute dog shit

[stiff raptor]

Cars have a weird resonance

not much sound absorption and too many weird reflections

would not recommend unless your car has acoustic foam

LOL

[stark tulip]

Thats fair, thats fair

I guess I can just do it to demo a line or something then I rerecord with my actual equipment

[stiff raptor]

Idk if i already told you, but the former crown the empire drummer (first EP to Dogma) works at my local music store

it's NUTS

[stark tulip]

I never really listened to Crown the empire, I think the only song I kow of theirs is the Payphone cover they did for Punk goes Pop

[grave marlin]

Brent Taddie?

[stiff raptor]

yessir

Good ol taddie

[grave marlin]

That's fucking sick lmao

[stiff raptor]

IKR LOL

[grave marlin]

My claim to fame is that I know people who know Anthony Green. (Lame) Lmao

[stiff raptor]

LOL

that's sick

[grave marlin]

Oh and Donovan Melero hit my cart after a HTS set once.

[stiff raptor]

Who dat

[grave marlin]

Hail The Sun

Fantastic band if youve never heard em.

They're in that swancore area

[stiff raptor]

ohhh

[grave marlin]

Also drummer is the singer

[stiff raptor]

based

[grave marlin]

Like... Crazy

He's like the Phil Collins of swancore. Hops back and forth between front manning and then still frontmanning while ripping the drums. Insane talent. I can play drums. I can sing. I can not play drums and sing at the same time.

Speaking of Phil Collins, we owe gated reverb to him, Peter Gabriel, and their two producers.

Another fun fact for you

[stark tulip]

Dude I love Phil Collin so much, Hands down one of the best artists in history

[grave marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/fax-facts-true-fax-machine-no-cap-gif-23341580

[stark tulip]

Plus his work on the Tarzan soundtrack was unnessecarily hard and I will die on the hill that Soundtrack can't be beat

[grave marlin]

He genuinely did not have to go that hard.

But he did for us.

[stark tulip]

plus casually having NSync in one of the songs and all they did was Scat Chefs Kiss

[proper crane]

I’ve done that before, here’s the result

Untreated brick room, condenser mic

All the reverb is from the recorded files and not a plugin

[stark tulip]

Holy Nu metal intro haha I actually dig the vocal tone from that though

The vocal sample I sent earlier is litterally a condensor mic in an untreated room with plasterboard walls, only reverb added and no pop filter

[stark tulip]

Wait these guys are releatively new right?

[stiff raptor]

Yeah i'm actually the singer/guitarist/producer

[stark tulip]

Wait actually? Thats awesome
I'm listening to the band right now ha

[stiff raptor]

Lets gooo

you're listening to our old music tho, you should listen to the new album

The Sins We Keep Alive

[stark tulip]

Dude the breakdown in Pride makes the Prodigal is fucking sick, like I have to resist headbangning at my desk ha

[stiff raptor]

that song is ooollldd news

[stark tulip]

Oh I just hit shuffle on spotify tbh

[stiff raptor]

LOL

[stark tulip]

So you're cleans and guitar?

[stiff raptor]

play A Death Like His

yes

[stark tulip]

Ayo here we go, this is the shit

[stark tulip]

Nice, I can really hear a TDWP style vocal when cleans have come in

https://giphy.com/gifs/DeyRhNUrRswNi

me at my desk right now

[stiff raptor]

LOLL

W

[stark tulip]

I'm at work which makes that funnier

[zinc coral]

i know this was ages ago but my grandma's neghbour is the vocalist of in hearts wake

[zinc coral]

i had a band do that once and it still sounded like shit

[stiff raptor]

Buster kit?

Would sound a lot better with a different drumkit imo

[pliant tree]

wah

not changing it any time soon

[stiff raptor]

It doesn't mesh well with the guitar, imo

It sticks out cause it's very scooped

[torn lynx]

I agree with this actually

[stiff raptor]

Yeah one of my main gripes with the buster kit (processed version) is that it sticks out like a sore thumb when not put into a processed mix

[torn lynx]

Yeah

[nimble nova]

Yes

Everyone i know uses buster kit on their song that sounds like a raw demo compared to how buster kit sounds

[stiff raptor]

Yep

[zinc coral]

@ruby cedar

[ruby cedar]

Jeffery

[grand jasper]

i wonder if the browning isolation used ssd drums

[stiff raptor]

produced by cody stewart

[stiff raptor]

made one of myself

lol

[zinc coral]

lollllllll

[zinc coral]

you forgot to add the bankrupt credit card

[grand jasper]

i'm so proud of you

mixing nerds collect them all

[trim harbor]

Hair looks peak as well

[zinc coral]

honestly, id say its not a good idea to use a metal core tone with buster kit, find somthing ALOT more scooped and fake sounding. becuase right now it just sounds like you commisioned buster but diddnt have enough money for him to finiah the record lol

[trim harbor]

Where do I find the template for this

[grand jasper]

on soybooru

[trim harbor]

um what is this

[grand jasper]

here ya go

[zinc coral]

finally figured out how to hyper proccess

[torn lynx]

Sounds like shit lol

Try doing that on the unprocessed Odeholm kit

I wonder what it would do

[zinc coral]

i think you are just not a fan of the style, its no reason to be harsh or agressive

[torn lynx]

No I am a fan of his style. And Im not attempting to be harsh or agressive. My apologies.

[stiff raptor]

sounds like 2014 metalcore drums

sounds good imo

still not as hyperprocessed as the fop kit tho

[torn lynx]

Ill listen to it again on headphones cuz all I have is a bluetooth speaker or my phone rn

[zinc coral]

im getting there tho, its mainly just the eq and the bus comp doing all the work

[stiff raptor]

the secret is dynamic eq/multiband comp

[torn lynx]

I think it was ducking on my bluetooth speaker mb

[zinc coral]

i recomend not giving feed back when you arent on a decent system lol

[torn lynx]

Okay

[zinc coral]

honestly im not crazy about the fop snare

i think the toms are more intresting

[stiff raptor]

toms are just some random samples i found

The snare is slate fop recreation

[stiff raptor]

I don't understand it ngl

It's probably my favorite snare of all time

Its unbeatable

[zinc coral]

well idk maybe my mind would change if i could fuckin find it lol

[stiff raptor]

what lol

[zinc coral]

it doesnt exist anymore

it dissapeared of the face of the world

[stiff raptor]

make sure u properly load these pairs cause theyre left and right pairs

[zinc coral]

wdym

[trim harbor]

Idk what the whole thing about FOP being hyperprocessed is, they sound like extremely well mixed trash can snares

[stiff raptor]

? it literally is hyperprocessed

took me a few years and a LOT of digging but i figured it out

It is very hyperprocessed

😭

all for the snare LOL

[zinc coral]

its like the opposite of a trash can lol

[stiff raptor]

Yeah it's not trash canny at all

[trim harbor]

On a technical level absolutely but sound wise not quite

[zinc coral]

its quite low

[stiff raptor]

that would sound metallic and tinny

[stiff raptor]

what does this mean gng

[zinc coral]

dude what

[trim harbor]

It's "hyperproccesed" sure but I don't hear it

[zinc coral]

listen to my snare and then xenons

[stiff raptor]

the other day you thought a dry mix had 100% verb...

[zinc coral]

0:24

[trim harbor]

I was listening on the $5 wired EarPods

I switched over to a legit speaker and ot sounded fine

[zinc coral]

again...

[trim harbor]

Those sound fine most of the time and it's what the average person would be using

[stiff raptor]

raw to processed pipeline

[zinc coral]

just no, the sample rate is fucked on those types of earphjones

[stiff raptor]

also yeah the snare is tuned very low

the fundamental sits around 180-200 hz

[trim harbor]

Isn't that the case for all snares

Or am I wrong

[zinc coral]

nope

[stiff raptor]

It depends on the tuning

[zinc coral]

most low tuned are around 170-190

[stiff raptor]

oh also i lied the fundamental is like 170

[zinc coral]

circle with me's snare is at 143

[stiff raptor]

dan braunstein, never change

low tuned snares sound way cooler than high tuned ones

[zinc coral]

i love his drums, they are so cool

[stiff raptor]

ikr

[zinc coral]

its just enough hyper to satisfy my autistic brain but not enough for everyone else to hate

[stiff raptor]

but yeah it is very much hyperprocessed and it definitely sounds hyperprocessed

it's LITERALLY seven snares layered together

LOL

tuned to the same note

[zinc coral]

damn

and i thought i was cool becuase i ripped blessthefalls snare lol

[trim harbor]

That's a lot of work for this kind of sound

Seems unnecessary to me ngl

When most mixes with one snare sound a lot better

[stiff raptor]

subjective

[stiff raptor]

sounds amazing and unique, nothing else like it

[zinc coral]

give an example of a mix with one snare lol

[stiff raptor]

also this isn't exactly true, most of your favorite records use blended snares

[zinc coral]

idk how i feel about this one, still cool tho

[stiff raptor]

in fact FOP snare was actually used as a layer in All Our Gods by Architects

[stiff raptor]

it's FOP

just blended with a real kit

[trim harbor]

This sounds very different than yours even if it's the same kit

[zinc coral]

yeah i meant the mix as a whole

[zinc coral]

because its not lol

[stiff raptor]

well yeah mine's not exact, it's a recreation, but i think i got relatively close

[zinc coral]

its a blend

[stiff raptor]

more amazing fop usage

this one is the one mine is closest to, imo

[zinc coral]

this is sick, where are you getting these files lol

[stiff raptor]

My personal music library

that one is by That's Outrageous!

[zinc coral]

did you have to pay for the mp3 or did you just find it lol

[stiff raptor]

Classic fop usage, the first usage of it

[trim harbor]

Anything from Paramore's album "RIOT!"

[stiff raptor]

this is memphis may fire

[zinc coral]

dude that has samples

[stiff raptor]

LOL

[stiff raptor]

the drums sound literally so good here

my favorite drum sound ever

thick and low

and roomy

[trim harbor]

The entire snare sound on that album is exclusively one specific snare

[zinc coral]

this is sick, also how many fuckin bands was aron in

[stiff raptor]

aaron?

[zinc coral]

it was a sample replacment snare lol

[trim harbor]

https://youtu.be/pVL8DemAr5M

[trim harbor]

I have no clue what that means

[stiff raptor]

it isn't "just one snare"

It was that snare, sure, but lots of blends and layers of it

[zinc coral]

its still sample layered dude

[stiff raptor]

Wdym

Aaron pauley? he was only in 2 bands

and not any that i sent here

[zinc coral]

is that not arron pauley

[stiff raptor]

no

[zinc coral]

.

[stiff raptor]

I just said that was memphis may fire

Matty Mullins?

[zinc coral]

lll

i had no idea lol

i genuinly thought that was arron

[stiff raptor]

FOP!!!!

[zinc coral]

but this is fuckin sick, i love it

[stiff raptor]

that's The Haunted by MMF

from their album The Hollow

Great album

all FOP

more good fop stuff

[trim harbor]

That is very surprising

[stiff raptor]

How so

[zinc coral]

is there an nki

[stiff raptor]

not with embedded samples

[trim harbor]

It sounds really good in comparison to the FOP you sent

[stiff raptor]

well the ones i sent were mono

[zinc coral]

he sent one in mono

[stiff raptor]

yea

😭

[trim harbor]

The one he mixed

[zinc coral]

yeah its the exact same snare

its just in mono

[stiff raptor]

those mono samples were the original FOP, not my recreation

the videos were my recreation

heres a stereo sample of the OG fop

[zinc coral]

wait i think dan has a simmilar sample

[stiff raptor]

heres a version of FOP with slightly different processing (aka Vengeance Kit)

[trim harbor]

Yeah like this sounds pretty bad but the one on "The Sinner" sounds good

[stiff raptor]

crazy cause it's the same sample

i think you just have an untrained ear

[stiff raptor]

rooms are a bit similar but this one is tuned a lot higher

[zinc coral]

yeah, i might be going insane

lol

[trim harbor]

That or it's buried in the mix so bad that you can't hear it that well

[zinc coral]

no you have an untrained ear

[trim harbor]

I noticed that with Jamie's Elsewhere mixes which I know for sure is FOP

[stiff raptor]

bruh

Jamie's never used fop

[zinc coral]

LOOLLLLLLL

[stiff raptor]

😭

on that record Cam was mostly using DKFH

and some passed down samples from like 2009 ish i believe

[zinc coral]

... wut

[trim harbor]

DKFH?

[stiff raptor]

drumkit from hell

[zinc coral]

damn do they have airport security there

must have been hard to get here

[stiff raptor]

Lol

[trim harbor]

Never heard of this

[stiff raptor]

yeah it's old

made before you were born

and if you listen to Jamie's record you can very clearly tell it isn't fop

[zinc coral]

god those drums hit hard

[stiff raptor]

agree

such good stuff

they blend in the mix so well

perfect use of MB comp

[zinc coral]

what did you use for your remake

[stiff raptor]

same thing Cam used to make it originally: SSD4

fop is all SSD4

[zinc coral]

i need to learn how to use mb correctly

[stiff raptor]

• some extra samples

[zinc coral]

of giants

[trim harbor]

Was it not literally last week that you were hating on this drum mix for sounding fake

[stiff raptor]

ohhh

[stiff raptor]

FAA collapse snare

sounds scarily similar for a completely unrelated sample

[zinc coral]

i wassnt hating, i was curious as to why and what changed

i think that record has some of the best mixed drums out there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFKSiOkRzb4&list=RDpFKSiOkRzb4&start_radio=1 this is one of my all time fav mixes though

[stiff raptor]

nolly kills it as always

[zinc coral]

this my second fav https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrIvDEBZHnA&list=RDVrIvDEBZHnA&start_radio=1

its weird and i love it

[trim harbor]

This is my target mix for basically everything
https://youtu.be/PY98qdxeMbY

[zinc coral]

mhm yummy i love abr

[stiff raptor]

I never liked abr that much

their mixes are fine

the older ones are a bit rough

not a huge fan of this one

phantom anthem is my favorite mix-wise

[zinc coral]

wait wtf happened

[trim harbor]

?

[zinc coral]

i remember this alot better

[trim harbor]

YouTube comp maybe

[zinc coral]

no like tonaly

[trim harbor]

I will say the snare is a bit too high for what they're going for

[zinc coral]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt4SNludTFM&list=RDjt4SNludTFM&start_radio=1 i was remembering the remaster mb

[stiff raptor]

what they're going for? lol

how could you know what they were going for

that was 2009

[zinc coral]

i have #1 advice for you

[trim harbor]

What did they do to White Washed 😭

[stiff raptor]

this is a much better mix

[zinc coral]

if you dont know what ur saying dont say it lol (yes im a hypocrite i know)

[zinc coral]

still not great but oh welllll

[trim harbor]

Seems like they were going for a big punchy anthemic snare but you just can't get there with a snare that high

[stiff raptor]

i mean that's all based on your assumption

the snare isn't even tuned that high

[trim harbor]

It should be a bit lower still

[stiff raptor]

🤷‍♂️

[proper crane]

lowk composure is better

[grave marlin]

TGOG is deep ball knowledge. Remember when Matt McNulty was in there for like 12 minutes?

[stiff raptor]

Yesss

[azure gull]

I like ocean apathy from constellations a lot goes under the radar same with escape artist

[zinc coral]

just why

this is so sick

[ruby jay]

i think you should check out drumforge matt greiner

[trim harbor]

I've never heard of that

[ruby jay]

check it out it's pretty cool

[trim harbor]

This looks amazing

Let me just very normally obtain this plugin

[ruby jay]

I've been trying for a while, good luck......

it sounds so good it just might be worth spending on

or try your luck making ggd modern and massive sound similar, it can be mixed to sound like the drumforge thing

[trim harbor]

Yeah I'm cooked

I've checked my usual resources and it just isn't there

We should probably move this to DMs so Nik doesn't get shot down lmao

[grand jasper]

not relatable to me, i sail the seas

[north isle]

I just got reaper and need help setting up using digital drums in it, what I should have etc

I'm also @placid halo I forgot my login details of my other acc 😭 I posted a demo the other day in The Feedback Requests bit

[north isle]

every goddamn kontakt tutorial for has a different version to mine and it doesnt have the same ui 🥀

[stiff raptor]

@north isle

[north isle]

yeah I got all that I just cant figure out how to route the drums to the channels

im using deviant II free

[stiff raptor]

you have all the kontakt outputs set up?

like st.1 through 5

[stiff raptor]

usually the drum vst will have an in-built mixer with an option to set routing to each st output

Hm it says it only supports limited routing

Idk what that really entails

I would recommend trying a different drum vst that actually lets you route each drum, like SSD5.5 free

[north isle]

a million things have said "yes it can" but I aint seeing that

[stiff raptor]

should be in the mixer tab of the plugin

[north isle]

nope

apparently there isnt

[stiff raptor]

then it probably doenst support it

i recommend trying SSD5.5 free or something like MTPower

or even Restrains kit

[north isle]

internet is being stupid bro

like misinformation is crazy

especially the damn google ai it doesnt have a clue what its talking about I try to avoid it

[stiff raptor]

Lol just use a different free plug

lots of good ones out there

[north isle]

i already have ssd5.5

do u use a custom kit or one of the presets they have?

[stiff raptor]

I just took one of the presets and modified it to my liking

[north isle]

fair

[stiff raptor]

This is the kit

[north isle]

bro theres too many options

[north isle]

yus ts peak

[north isle]

i know fuck all about drums 😭

[stiff raptor]

Just choose a kick and snare that you like the most, play with the tuning (the little tuning knob in the instrument editor)

Then make sure you route your room mics out to their own channel (ROOM MICS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE SOUND)

Do NOT neglect room mics

then just route everything out to their own channels, sidechain the overheads and room mics to the kick and snare, use multiband compression on EVERYTHING and then put it all in a bus with a bit of bus compression

all of this can be done with free plugins

[north isle]

should i route the cymbals to one channel or to multiple? Just incase the compression for each cymbal really matters that much

[stiff raptor]

I typically route all my cymbals to one channel called "overheads" but some people like to route hihat and ride to standalone channels

me personally i don't do that because i can always adjust hihat and ride individually inside the plugin

[north isle]

I'll do ur thing cuz thats easier

SSD has an 'OH' channel should I just link the hihat and ride to that?

[stiff raptor]

yes

[north isle]

cool

[stiff raptor]

make sure the OH channel is going out to st.4 or whatever your cymbals output in reaper is

[north isle]

and room, room B and SLR to seperate channels or just one?

[north isle]

yus

[stiff raptor]

I route all my rooms to one channel

[north isle]

what does SLR stand for

[stiff raptor]

No clue

i think it might be the type of mic they used

[north isle]

ohh makes sense

[grand jasper]

same

[ruby jay]

how to not make vocals sit "on top" of the mix?

[trim harbor]

Who's singing?

[ruby jay]

a very awesome vocalist friend of mine

[stiff raptor]

less treble and more bus compression

have instruments in an instrumental bus, and vocals in a vocal bus

compress both

then send both to master for even more comp

[ruby jay]

a master being another fader or a folder track?

[stiff raptor]

master being the master channel 😭

[ruby jay]

that's already happening then, everything has some form of compression, mostly reaxcomp

[stiff raptor]

never too much compression

[ruby jay]

do the vocals need less treble or the instrumental?

[stiff raptor]

vocals

[ruby jay]

alright, I boosted the 1k a little too much I guess, for more grit 🥹

[stiff raptor]

Grit doesn't come from the treble

The human voice distorts in the mid range

adding treble doesn't add grit, it adds this horrible breathiness

For some reason so much modern metal just overboosts treble because they think the vocal distorts in the treble range

that isn't the case

The human voice breaks up at like 500-600 hz

thats where the actual distortion is coming from

[vital perch]

uhh idk some 190bpm metalcore

[halcyon veldt]

If anybody can help, I think I'm lost on modern production. Seems like I always get something wrong along the way. IDK if there's a "standard" for these things but if anybody could point me in the right direction, would greatly appreciate

[grand jasper]

honestly i can't say anything useful about modern production because i'm a revivalcore guy

but i can surely say: don't use odeholm drums

[halcyon veldt]

Alright lol

I use modern and massive and invasion

[grand jasper]

nice

i use ggd stuff sometimes

[halcyon veldt]

I guess, I like it, but my stuff tends to get roasted

[grand jasper]

m&m's, okw architects and brutal, piv

[halcyon veldt]

I like nollys stuff a lot

[proper crane]

post a mix, when I get back to my pc in like 20 minutes I can give some feedback if you want

[halcyon veldt]

Yeah man

[stiff raptor]

modern production:

use a lotttt of sidechain, sidechain kick to your guitars a bit
lots and LOTS of compression
use soothe2 on EVERYTHING
use "intelligent" plugins like gullfoss and ozone 11
use GGD or Superiordrummer layered with Zakk Cervini (ballin audio) oneshots
use archetype for guitar and send it through RAxxx

[halcyon veldt]

Hmmm

Imma need free alternatives for some of these

[stiff raptor]

Not doable lol

at least for the intelligent plugins

[halcyon veldt]

Maybe a way to get to that level without intelligent plugins

[stiff raptor]

good balancing and lots and lots of multiband compression

[halcyon veldt]

Ze grind continues

[stiff raptor]

essentially yea

[north isle]

us brokies are cooked 🥀

[stiff raptor]

nah

you can make GREAT mixes with free plugins

But you probably won't sound like zakk cervini (and imo, that's a good thing)

[trim harbor]

This is what we call making a mix "fishy"

[halcyon veldt]

Yeah I'm just going to work with what I have

[grand jasper]

i'm thinking of replacing ndsp mantra with something else for vocals

i'm making sturgiscore stuff rn for funsies

but ndsp mantra doesn't sound sturgissy enough tbh

[trim harbor]

This is great

[grand jasper]

ty

[grand jasper]

@stiff raptor can u remind me what stuff are you using for your vocals?

i'm kinda noob in vocals

[stiff raptor]

dynamic eq
reacomp
1176
la2a
more dynamic eq

thats about it

[grand jasper]

thanks

[stiff raptor]

sometimes i'll add another compressor or another eq

depends on what the voice needs

[proper crane]

I'm going to have to rerecord the vocals at some point because i didn't realize how reflective the room is 😔

but for now I'll leave this here

[pure dawn]

i haven't posted in here for a while. anyways, i decided to make black metal because my wifi wasn't working, so this is what came out of that

[stark tulip]

Holy shit dude is that your vocal?

But i can notice some of the reflections but Im not sure its stands out necessarily in a negative way

[stark tulip]

Blackened drone metal god damn haha

[proper crane]

yeah thats me

not entirely satisfied with the recording, idk the reflections stick out a little too much imo

also near the end I kept losing support, seems I gotta work on my techniue 💀

[stark tulip]

I was gonna say holy False chord haha

I shared my make shift vocal booth yesterday in the feedback chat but i found it did make a hell of a different

[flat oar]

why not just get gain reduction

and for a vocal bus, andrew wade vocals

then its finished :D

[stiff raptor]

Nah

[flat oar]

@grand jasper @stiff raptor this was all gain reduction and andrew wade bus glue vocals nothing else LOOOOOOL but isnt it... lowk still joey sturgisy?

[stiff raptor]

I mean not really at all imo

[flat oar]

aw

do i even need andrew wade vocals

[stiff raptor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Y4dQ3XwCE

[flat oar]

it has a de esser tho so thats based

a good one

[stiff raptor]

This is how sturgis vocals sound

[stiff raptor]

you don't need any specialized plugins to get a good vocal mix

I also think you are overpronouncing your words

[flat oar]

LOOLOLOLOLOLO

thats how ronnie radke does it on the etf first LP

i think

[stiff raptor]

no 😭

he slightly did that in the first FIR album but not in the way that you're doing it

[flat oar]

i put style into every letter every word every sentence idk what ur on about 🤬 lol jk

[stiff raptor]

well that's the issue

Not every word needs to have so much emphasis

[flat oar]

is it not cool? idk

💀 idk

i need just a tiny bit of advice

im stubborn about using gain reduction so, do i just need to pair it with a de esser after? lol

[stiff raptor]

It sounds almost like parody, imo

[flat oar]

DAMN LOL

[stiff raptor]

I really dont mean that in a mean way 😭

Like it sounds like someone making fun of ronnie radke LOL

[flat oar]

this sounds too good how the vocals are

[stiff raptor]

Yeah joey is crazy good

theres a reason why he's a legend

[stark tulip]

@stiff raptor @zinc coral Hows the vocals now?

[stiff raptor]

Screams sound good tone-wise, i think they're actually causing some ducking though

What that means is that they're shoving the volume of everything else down

The cleans sound a lottt better now

[stark tulip]

Hmm okay let me see my levels

[stiff raptor]

Yeah if that's happening, just bring the levels of EVERYTHING down

It's okay if all your meters are like -5 or -6 db

That's called giving yourself headroom

[stark tulip]

I've got all my bus fader like this

[flat oar]

sounds like enter shikari i like it

[stiff raptor]

oh i mean audio/metering wise

Like how high the audio peaks

it's ok if you need to bring everything down to like -6 on the meter there

Then on the master channel you can use a limiter or maximizer to bring back the volume all together

that way no individual tracks are fighting for volume

[stark tulip]

OH, all of my tracks are around -12to -6 already, I was gain staging them , starting at -18, adding some gain, then increasing until I hit -6

[stark tulip]

I honestly, have no idea haha I never got into them, but I'll take the thumbs up

[flat oar]

hows my new sturgis type vocals

i made them all more thick and minimal lol

[stiff raptor]

Nice nice

[stiff raptor]

mixing wise the vocals sound a lot better, cleans are a bit lacking in the high end i think? pronunciation still needs to be worked on in my opinion though

[stark tulip]

wait wtf, why were my screams sitting at -9 on the faders lol

That might be why, hold up

Okay, third times the charm - How about now @stiff raptor ?

[stiff raptor]

oh yeah muchhh better

This is great

ABR vibes

[stark tulip]

Yeah I realised what the issue was, I must've bumped the lead Scream track to -9 for some stupid reason, but yeah that was the issue

[stiff raptor]

Ahhh

One thing i did notice, there's a weird volum drop when the fill comes in at 1:17

[stark tulip]

I also, just noticed that,

I put some pitch corrector on the cleans, so maybe its that fucking with it,

I'mma take it off and see if that makes a difference

[stark tulip]

I can kind of hear that haha I loved ABR growing up

[stark tulip]

I think its fixed?

On another note... where/how do you get your reference tracks?

[stiff raptor]

Like mix reference tracks?

Just find any song that i particularly enjoy the mix of, then download it

Then import into my daw

You don't even have to import in your daw if you don't want to

You can just listen on youtube/spotify/whatever

[stark tulip]

Ah yeah it was more the where to download part, I know how to import to my DAW

[stiff raptor]

You can use ytdlp on github if you're familiar with that

But you dont necessarily have to download them, it's just faster imo

[stark tulip]

Yeah I figure since I've never mastered Imma take the Easiest option to learn and everything I've read/seen says ot import

[stiff raptor]

Just remember if you import it, make sure that you're not routing it through the master channel, because any effect plugins you put on the master will affect the reference track

and we don't want that LOL

Reaper has a handy routing thing called hardware outputs where it basically ignores the master and goes straight out to your speakers/headphones

So i wonder if cakewalk has something similar

[stark tulip]

Oh yeah,. I can reroute that, so all good ha

[stiff raptor]

Ok sick

[stark tulip]

But i think this track is now good to move on to mastering, which I have 0 idea how to do ha

But i have one of the reference songs and idk if its because of how I doanlowded it but the lpudest part of the song is quieter than the quietest part of mine haha

[grand jasper]

it kinda gives some miw vibes to me idk

[stark tulip]

I love MIW so not even mad at that haha

[grand jasper]

Same

Miw is based

[stark tulip]

They are probably like the only "modern" metalcore band thats in my favourites for anything

And i do quotations because they started out in like 2006 or something

[grand jasper]

for me drop a# only associates with miw lol

[stark tulip]

Thats fair
Drop A# for me is MIW, and some ADTR, Miss May I and some Parkway Drive

[proper crane]

@stiff raptor @stark tulip how do yall engineer your vocal recordings? Do you adjust mic gain for different dynamics, or just “set and forget” and compress out all the dynamics in post?

[stiff raptor]

Mines super simple

I've got a -20db pad on my mic

-20db when recording screams

0db when recording cleans

Ezpz

[grand jasper]

hi zennon

[proper crane]

Ok so kinda set and forget, gotcha

Guess I need to comp my vocals a little harder then

[stiff raptor]

Yeah i have like three compressors on vocals at the minimum

[proper crane]

Lmfao yeah

I got 2 rn and it’s still not enough

[stiff raptor]

i have reacomp hitting it first at -27 threshhold and 4:1 ratio

Then 1176 slamming it

then LA2A slamming it

Then 2 instances of dynamic EQ which works the same as multiband compression

[proper crane]

yeah rn i just have a 2500 into saturation into a 1176

[stiff raptor]

I still need to play with the api 2500

ive never used it

i know that's Ross's favorite

[proper crane]

it's my favorite as well

at least on single tracks

I typically don't put it on busses

(I also picked it up on recommendation from ross lol)

[stark tulip]

What is the chain for vocals "typically"?

At the moment i have all my clean tracks, going into its own clean bus, of which I have EQ and compression, and then I send through another bus for Reberb

I have the same with my screams

[stiff raptor]

EQ (dynamic)
Reacomp (compressor) doing about -6db gain reduction
1176 (compressor)
LA 2A (compressor)
EQ (dynamic)

then send that out to verb/delay bus

[north isle]

no worries mudafucka

[stark tulip]

Ill check out the compressors you've used

As the moment i only use red 3

[stiff raptor]

you can get the 1176 and LA2A free from UA plugins

reacomp is native to reaper

[stark tulip]

Ah so can use any instead of reacomp

[north isle]

not enough compressors

[stiff raptor]

Yes any stock compressor

[stark tulip]

Is this a UR song?

[stiff raptor]

Its just a random song i wrote

[stark tulip]

Hmm alrighty I'll check them

[stark tulip]

It almost sounds like a UR song in some parts haha

[stiff raptor]

imma post it down here so it doesnt get buried lol

i almost never post demos here for various reasons but heres one i made with all free plugins, as usual

[trim harbor]

The UBR style is his signature thing

[stark tulip]

Haha i figured but i was just meaning as a solo project can definitely hear it bleeding through (not a bad thing at all)

[trim harbor]

Bleeding Through reference

(I have never heard a Bleeding through song)

[stark tulip]

Imo they're like if Parkway Drive were Scottish and did my technical riffa

[grand jasper]

is it the finished variant? i remember you sending version without bass in ubr server

i'm on my phone rn

[stiff raptor]

this one has bass

[torn lynx]

What if I do thall over the Fitnessgram PACER script

[halcyon veldt]

yes

[pliant tree]

my cpu wants to explode from ts

[stark tulip]

I think I asked already but would you send your Clean and screamed vocals to the same Vocal bus, or have one sepearte for each of them?

[trim harbor]

I think the same one

[stark tulip]

The FX bus, I would send Vocals to this for Reverb/Delay eta?

I'm also just preparing a template and the drums are a little confusing

One example I can find is this,

Kick In, Kick Out
Snare Top, Snare Bot
Toms (Rack 1, Rack 2, Floor 1, Floor 2)
Hi-Hat, Ride, Cymbals
Overheads L & R
Rooms (Mono, Stereo, Far)
Trigger/Sample Tracks

But the other example I found said

Kick Bus Kick In Track, Kick Out Track
Snare Bus: Snare Top Track, Snare Bot Track
Tom Bus: Toms (Rack 1 Track, Rack 2 Track, Floor 1 Track, Floor 2 Track)
Overheads Bus:: Crash L Track, Crash R Track, H i-Hat Track, Ride Track, China Track
Rooms (Not too sure what is actually is)

Can someone simplify this for me?

I guess with the Overhead/Room thing is how do I do this with Midi and what do I actually Track in this

[stiff raptor]

Well most midi drums don't have the option to route that many drum tracks

Let me just tell you now

Rooms are THE most important part of the sound

All of the other mics are just capturing the sound of a stick hitting skin

The room captures the sound of the room the drums are in, the actual tone of all the drums

If you want to get anything right, get the rooms right first

This is usually how I lay out my midi drum outputs:

• kick
• snare
• toms (all)
• overheads
• rooms

You don't need much more than that

[stark tulip]

right okay, I'll ensure I have this set up, It was just something Ive come across and I can't find a whole lot, like apparentl SSD can reroute things, but I've been literally tracking it all seperately in tracks. but the way I've been doing my midi drums is

Drum Bus -
Kick
Snare
FT1
FT2
RT1
RT2
Hi Hat
Crash L
Crash R
China
Splash

so I have no idea how to do Overheards or rooms as seperate tracks, like what goes into them?

[stiff raptor]

Overheads is all the cymbals

Rooms is all the room mics for the drums

[stark tulip]

As tracks or seperate buses that then route into a Drum Buss?

[stiff raptor]

Tracks

Then into a drum bus

[stark tulip]

Okay so

Tracks -
Kick
Snare
Toms
Over Heads (Crashs L&R, Hi Hate, China Splash?)
Rooms - Whatever this is

All routed into drum bus

[stiff raptor]

Yes

[stark tulip]

Oof that'll make my life SO much easier

[stiff raptor]

Rooms is literally just mics placed in the room the drums are recorded in

They're meant to record the drums as a whole together

From afar

Usually there are two room mics (left and right)

[stark tulip]

And are they two seperate tracks?

[stiff raptor]

But SSD has 3 i think

Depends on the drum plugin

[stark tulip]

Like one panned Left, one panned right?

[stiff raptor]

If you record them in real life yes

But in SSD theyre already stereo

If i remember correctly

[stark tulip]

Okay, alright, I'll take a look

At the moment I'm still on Addictive drums because I at least know how to use that one but since I keep getting told to try SSd I'll give it a go ha

[stiff raptor]

Gotcha

Addictive drums has rooms for sure

I think lol

[stark tulip]

So you also wouldn't seperate the Kick into In and Out and the snare into Top and bottom?

Just do one for each and play with the sound within the VST itself?

[stiff raptor]

Yeah i don't think many drum plugins let you separately route kick in/out or snare top/bottom

I've never heard of any that do that

[stark tulip]

Yeah I just assumed I'd have to track them both twice then change the pan of it into the VSt, but if I don't have to, I;mma leave it... Less is more as they say

[stiff raptor]

You shouldn't be panning kick or snare LOL

[stark tulip]

I know on the L&R but I just meant within the VSt settings

See this is why it gets confusing haha

[stiff raptor]

wdym

You shouldn't be panning kick or snare anywhere

[stark tulip]

So like in AD2, I can go into the VST and adjust the balance of Top or Bottom of the snare

[stiff raptor]

Yeah like volume

That's normal

[stark tulip]

I think the Default is like 30% top, 70% bottom or somethign

Thats what I mean by Panning, panning to top or bottom

[stiff raptor]

Oh that's not panning

Panning is specifically left vs right speaker

[stark tulip]

Tilting then, idk man I'mn moving the slider lol

[stiff raptor]

I think that's just balance

[stark tulip]

Thats all I mean

[stiff raptor]

Gotcha

[stark tulip]

I know from an output perspective it remains stereo, not L or R

[trim harbor]

It has 2

[stiff raptor]

It has SLR

Room 1, 2, and SLR

[stark tulip]

whats the S mean?

[trim harbor]

That's a room?

[stiff raptor]

Literally says "Room SLR"

but it's just a type of microphone i think

[trim harbor]

Nah it's just SLR for me

Room, Room B, and SLR

[stiff raptor]

SLR looks like it's bleed

I just use it as an extra room channel

[trim harbor]

I don't actually have it routed

[stiff raptor]

Just slap it in the rooms

[trim harbor]

Got it

[stark tulip]

As for the FX/Sends Bus

This is something I found as far what to buses to set up and what to send to it
Reverb (Snare, Vocal, Lead Guitar)
Delay (Vocal throws, Lead Guitar)
Parallel Compression (Drums)

Does that line up? or over complicating?

[stiff raptor]

That's a fair amount of fx sends

Though i think personally I'd want separate reverb and delay sends for different things

Idk if i want the same delay on my guitar as on my vocals

[stark tulip]

Thats what I thought, especially for my vocals like, I feel like cleans and Screams would require different reverbs, and the delays I'd use on my voice I imagine would be different to my guitars

So you'd esentially do

Reverb bus for Qty x Vox, Reverb for Lead Guitar, Reverb for Snare
Delay for Lead Guiter, Delay for Vox x Qty?

[stiff raptor]

I've never even considered using a reverb send for multiple things at once LOL

So yeah

Different verb/delay sends for anything i need

[stark tulip]

I guess in my case itd be 4 x Reverb Busses, 3 x Delay busses

Would you do it as a buss or just send to plug in?

Idk how sends really work as I haven't done too much playing with it

[stiff raptor]

I call them sends as to not confuse them with track busses

I consider a bus any group of tracks that i want to process together

Like all drums or all guitar

And then a send is when i send a signal out for reverb or delay or whatever

I honestly usually just slap a delay plugin in my guitar and only really use sends for vocals

Cause i need the extra flexibility on vocals

[stark tulip]

Yeah alright sick, I'll maybe just use the delay straight into the group when i need it

[zinc coral]

ok maybe dont send ai stuff here

[pliant tree]

lol?

[zinc coral]

depends on how cool you want to look

if you wanna be xenon and have REALLY simple routing go for it, but if you want to have full control over littereally everything i'd recomend a more complex system

id stick with simple for now

[pliant tree]

ai this ai that fuck off

[zinc coral]

dude you can not tell me that isnt ai

the song writing might not be

the vocals are

[pliant tree]

they are not

[zinc coral]

proove it

what is it then

[pliant tree]

well i know its a real person but i dont know what kind of mixing they used on the vocals theyre not mine

[zinc coral]

show me the song then

[zinc coral]

mixing doesnt do that

[pliant tree]

heres the original i hate the mix

[zinc coral]

what is the song called

[pliant tree]

the same

[zinc coral]

by who

[stark tulip]

Hmm, i do want one crash to sound like absolute garbage while the china sounds like a plate

[proper crane]

https://youtu.be/ZtLymB1VXRM?si=5BLKdXSv1wR1kbfy

https://youtu.be/1PxlgFCTOaY?si=c7XIsdGMxerjVlC-

[zinc coral]

yeah ok so he just sounds like ai

thats insane

[proper crane]

It sounds AI a little sure, but the more I listen to it and seeing him perform live it sounds a little more like a celldweller or blue stahli style vocal mix

The AI had to rip from somewhere

[zinc coral]

what happens when you put all the lonley redit mods in one room

[stiff raptor]

DAGames does not sound like ai😭😭

He doesn't have the fizzy quality that all ai vocals have

[pliant tree]

reddit karaoke night

i didnt wanna bring him up cuz hes controversial

i just like some of will's music but not his mixing 💀

[grave marlin]

I typically have two reverbs for vocals. One for the cleans, where I like bright plate verbs or large room / cathedral verbs with medium to long tails to taste. Then one for the screams, where I like small to medium rooms with short tails, almost claustrophobic sounding reverb mixed with a small slap back delay. Makes shit sound huge and like it's bouncing off a brick wall. Mean. Joey Sturgis taught me that one on a YouTube video.

Oh huge tip for clean bright reverbs I picked up from an r&b producer I don't see many people mention, you can throw an eq on the verb bus and cut everything below 8k. Maybe even boost a bit between 12-16k to taste if it's not unpleasing to hear. This will leave all the shimmer and shine of the reverb without it ever being able to cloud or muddy the rest of the mix.

[stiff raptor]

Yes

W

[stark tulip]

Okay finally figured out the drum room thing, I basically have to retrack my drums, but now I know

[stiff raptor]

Big stuff! Wavemind NAM U has a huge update planned for this month with updated A2 support as well as a ton of other things!

[grand jasper]

i think i finally properly matched the sturgis snare

[stiff raptor]

Very very close

[grand jasper]

snare 12a + 11a; max room with ott; cutting out 200hz and 440hz areas and boosting higher frequencies