networking

[tender hazel]

also I would log into the router when you are having the issue to see if there is a problem

does it show the link as up? does it show packets sent and received? are their errors on the interface? etc.

[green forge]

cant do that

[little schooner]

Thing is, wall runs can be damaged too

you'll never know for sure without direct connection test

[green forge]

ok loggin in to the router

i tried different routers

all of them do the same thing

they all disconnect for me

so the router cant be the problem

i tried a diff cable

ok

so i connected to ethernet rn

and it works

lemme try the youtube thing rn

anyways i gtg

ill see if you guys have something

also im using a netgear 5 port gigabit switch to make extra connections

[tender hazel]

@green forge I thought you were the one who bought the RB4011

I probably have you confused with someone else

oh yeah I remember now, you were the one who tried to flash some ISP router back with the default firmware and overclocked it

[hollow marlin]

@tender hazel Phone blew up even though Im not on call, looks like backhoes are in season again

[tender hazel]

blew up?

[hollow marlin]

Received calls/alarms on an outage

Still waiting for the crew to get on site to see the damage, but initial reports are most of 244 count was cut into

[tender hazel]

wow

[tender hazel]

that's going to be.. a lot of splicing

[honest quarry]

can someone help me enable the 2.5g ethernet port on my z490 tomahawk

[low pond]

there's no enable on it

if there are drivers for that, then it works

you can check window's Network Adapters in CP and then check link speed, though I think that says the link speed when the wires are connected fully

[cedar igloo]

Anyone know of any cheaper software defined networking solutions which work well with Terraform? The main providers on Terraform are Cisco ASA/ASAV, FortiOS, PANOS and NSX-T. From looking around, I cannot see anything under £300. I don't mind it being a virtual machine

My aim is to be able to specify firewall rules in Terraform, and be able to create/destroy subnets (as you can on AWS)

[topaz patrol]

Ok, I own many domains related to my business, e.g. businesstech.com.au, businesstechnology.com, businesstech.xyz, businesstech.net.au

Could I host my website on multiple of these domains and would the SEO be boosted of what?

[tame carbon]

@topaz patrol you can have multiple hostnames point to the same site, yeah

not sure how the SEO is done that way

SEO is layer 8 garbage

[clever venture]

Hey, can anyone recommend a VPN software that allows me to set custom DNS records, and will keep traffic over LAN if both computers are on the same network?

[peak cloak]

vlan software

as for keep traffic over lan, as long as computers are in the same subnet they will go over a switch, not a router

[clever venture]

VLAN = A virtual private network software that's designed as a lan (like hamachi)

[peak cloak]

no

that's a vpn

this is vlan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.1Q

as for something like hamachi

zerotier is good

[tame carbon]

@clever venture vlans are a layer 2 concept

has nothing to do with vpn

and neither does DNS

If two devices are on the same network, like your LAN, they can already directly communicate with one another

[clever venture]

right. I'll try explaining myself better

I have servers at my house and my parent's
I want to communicate with them and my PCs over a VPN
I want some kind of DNS setup that let's me connect via a FQDN without setting the IPs to a 172.16.0.0/12 with my registrar
I want the VPN to, if it detects I'm on the same LAN as another device on the VPN, it will rout over the LAN instead of through the VPN server for better performance

[tame carbon]

You need a DNS and some kind of VPN server like Wireguard

https://www.wireguard.com/

Split horizon DNS will help you make sure that the proper addresses are used

You just need a subnet for this that is routed

routed over VPN

and providing a DNS as well

[peak cloak]

@clever venture imo the best way would to be to have a vpn between your severs and your parents, therefore making your network the gateway to their servers.

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak https://i.imgur.com/jcOp6l8.png

[peak cloak]

?

[tame carbon]

I do that too, I provide a DNS server to my VPN clients

[peak cloak]

Well yeah

I do that too for my house vpn

[tame carbon]

@clever venture I would just install Wireguard on your server, do the proper port forwarding

set up client keys on the server

you can just have multiple clients

[low pond]

mmmmm hey people

[waxen saddle]

Hallo

[clever venture]

Interesting fact about Zerotier, it seems to automatically route across your LAN if two boxes are on the same network
The Yellow is my server via 192.168, the red is the same server through the zerotier ip
the green is a different box offsite

[tame carbon]

if they see a common subnet

they send a broadcast packet

and if they can see eachother

they reroute packets directly

[cedar igloo]

Thoughts on a FortiGate 40F in a homelab environment? Main use will be for education - configuring enterprise networks using Terraform.
I mainly need something that can run inside an existing private network and can handle 30+ VLAN networks, each with 20 devices connected

I have no need for deep packet inspection or threat protection and have only 3 devices which will need VPN connections

[tender hazel]

if you don't need deep packet inspection or threat protection there is no reason for a fortigate

you only buy a next gen firewall if you need such features

[cedar igloo]

The reason why I am looking at them, is for the automation it provides.

[tender hazel]

automation?

[cedar igloo]

Terraform only works with a few firewalls

[tender hazel]

oh ok

[cedar igloo]

Palo Alto Networks, FortiGate and Cisco

FortiGate has the cheapest I could find

[lean pebble]

I think fortigate have built in packet inspection

If I remember correctly I saw it in the feature list of the latest version of fortigate 60E/D

[cedar igloo]

Don't suppose you know what it means by "Virtual Domains" in the data sheet?

Virtual Domains (Default / Maximum) : 5 / 5

[lean pebble]

I saw only the last messages

[topaz patrol]

Yeah, SEO it utter bullshit, I know I could point multiple domains to the same webserver. Thanks!

2. Could I have a bunch of websites with a backlink to all the other websites that have my backlinks that all have backlinks to my main site

[tame carbon]

@topaz patrol as a dev its just annoying, cus its something sales dpt needs

xD

[topaz patrol]

Me, being the dev, the marketing team, the engineering department and the build team: 😐

Some company from India has recently popped up with THE EXACT SAME NAME AS ME and its so annoying

[fallen crypt]

i'm getting horrible latency using dubai's public servers

will using something like DNS servers fix this issue?

If so which DNS servers?

I had exitlag during its trial, and it made everything infinitely better

[topaz patrol]

?

[fallen crypt]

etisalat public servers are fucking SHIT

connection to anything like minecraft server is horrible

it seems to be a network server issue related

because exitlag fixes my issues

can i use dns to fix this

[topaz patrol]

I miss the good old days when you could just shove A shit ton of keywords into you website lol

[fallen crypt]

???

[peak cloak]

you already use dns

you can switch server

but that won't fix latency

public ip?

or static

you can't

well not really static, bad wording on my part

what do you want to do

you can't change your public ip in windows cmd

[topaz patrol]

You can't change your public IP on your own, call up your ISP

They'll probs charge a fee tho, unless your in a business connection

Nope

you can change your local IP,

But why do you want to?

?

A doubt someone would DOS you without a pretty good reason, it's illegal pretty much everywhere

Public.... I doubt anyone would be DOSing you

If you mean dox, then they can see an ✨ approximate ✨ location

What is "weird" that is happening on your network?

[fallen crypt]

Any idea why NO networks show up here? Tried switching drivers from realtek to Microsoft and updating latest drivers don't do crap

I have to use Bluetooth tethering to connect to the internet

[topaz patrol]

That's probs your latency issues

[fallen crypt]

No WiFi shows at all though

[topaz patrol]

#tech-support

[fallen crypt]

okay yeah, but even when I am connected to WiFI, I still get horrible latency

maybe a bit better but still unplayable

[tender hazel]

2.4ghz wifi? or 5ghz?

[fallen crypt]

5ghz

[peak cloak]

drivers

what wifi chipset

[fallen crypt]

uhh 1 min

[tender hazel]

that says 802.11n

so it's not 5ghz capable

[vale reef]

Wireless N can have 5ghz but that specific chip does not support it

@fallen crypt

[tender hazel]

yes wireless N can have 5ghz but it is exceedingly rare

[vale reef]

https://www.realtek.com/en/products/communications-network-ics/item/rtl8723be

[tender hazel]

99% of the time wireless N is 2.4ghz only

[vale reef]

this chip does not support 5ghz

[tender hazel]

and I already looked up the chip to make sure it wasn't one of the odd dual band ones

[vale reef]

👍 👍 👍

[fallen crypt]

0h yeah sorry

but using something like exitlag fixed my latency issues

any good alternaties

[tender hazel]

exitlag won't help with latency caused by wifi interference

[fallen crypt]

it seemed to fix mine

[tender hazel]

then in your case the latency was not caused by wireless interference

either that or it is a placebo effect, or the interference went away around the time you installed it by coincidence

[fallen crypt]

could be a coincidence or placebo effect

but when exitlag was off

i lagged

when it was on

i didn't lag

[tender hazel]

you can tell the difference between other sources of lag and lag from your local wireless if you get the lag when you ping your router itself

[steep grail]

hey is getting a router without wifi and then an access point better than an all-in-one router? Let's say for gaming/keeping ethernet connection up at all times.

[peak cloak]

yes

in my vocab, router now means just a router, no wifi

[steep grail]

I was thinking that. Is it because there's less congestion for the ethernet line?

[peak cloak]

no

[steep grail]

ah really, k.

so why's it better?

[peak cloak]

all in ones tend to be bad

less customization

also

[steep grail]

even the higher end ones? Asus Netgear etc

[peak cloak]

if I want to upgrade wifi, I just update the AP

[peak cloak]

Asus... high end,

[steep grail]

gamer centric KEK

expensive w/e

[peak cloak]

yeah that one sucks

[steep grail]

well it has good reviews on Amazon, 4.7 for latest model. I just always get bad luck with routers down the line where ethernet can have random disconnects. Bought myself a traffic controlled specialized router (IQrouter) which was great, but now is causing internet loss when gaming.

[robust plinth]

Don't get router that says made for gamers on it...

They jack up price just for that word

made for gamers O.o

[steep grail]

Ik

[peak cloak]

if you want a no bs router

https://mikrotik.com/product/RB750Gr3

or the HEX S if you want SFP

[steep grail]

but I just want the sturdiest ethernet connection possible, does excluding wifi from a router actually help that cause?

hmm

[robust plinth]

Yea Hex S isn't bad

[peak cloak]

I have it

[steep grail]

that looks pretty neat.

[peak cloak]

for a networking newbie though, routeros is overwhelming

though quickset would work good enough for most people

this is routeros btw: http://demo2.mt.lv/webfig/

mikrotik also has some all-in-one routers

[steep grail]

quickset is where on that page, didn't see it.

[steep grail]

k ty

[peak cloak]

but yeah if you mess with any advanced features, quickset will overwrite it iirc

I don't use quickset

the mobile app is also apprently pretty user friendly

[steep grail]

I usually do auto IP vs static. Tried static once and I forgot to remove it when changing routers, so I had to put it old router again to remove the static, lulz.

[peak cloak]

don't use static unless you need it

[steep grail]

this looks decent though. How's ethernet quality? What's the sturdiest top of the line router out there?

ya

[peak cloak]

top of the line is very hard to answer

for consumers?

or just a router

[steep grail]

consumer, apartment. Smart devices+ main computer, laptop.

just rock hard ethernet

[peak cloak]

so reliability

mikrotik is pretty damn good

[steep grail]

and then I'll get the access point just as quality as router. lol

ok cool.

Any good access points u can recommend too?

[peak cloak]

mikrotik also makes APs but I never used it

I have an EAP225 by tplink omada

[steep grail]

and how's that

[peak cloak]

tplink consumer sucks

[steep grail]

ah

[peak cloak]

but omada is good

only omada access points tho

the routers suck

can't even do gigabit

[steep grail]

lol. and its reliability?

[peak cloak]

this is the hex results

[peak cloak]

so far works just fine, no issues

for the past... like year

[steep grail]

nice. Oh yeah bridging. Seen that before. Forgot what it is. Do I bridge the router and access point?

[peak cloak]

no bridging is when a packet just goes though the switch chip, without any routing. So lets say you have a packet that wants to go from pc to another on the same subnet (so basically on your LAN), it would just go though the switch, or the switch chip on the router without getting routed. But if you want to lets say access the internet, the packet will actually hit the cpu which will route it

Layer 2 of the OSI model is all bridging/switching (MAC addresses)

Layer 3 is routing (IP addresses)

[green forge]

yeah xd

[steep grail]

ahh nice explanation. Thank you. Ok I think these are the ones to get then. Oh the last thing I wanted to know was QoS trafficking thing. Bloatware tests.

[green forge]

?

[peak cloak]

so this is HEX with switch chip on

[peak cloak]

you don't really need QOS as a consumer

unless your internet is that bad, but routeros has qos if you need it

as for bufferbloat, thats just a bad measurement

[steep grail]

o really? how come? I always like to get that A+ buffer

[peak cloak]

#networking message

#networking message

mynameisjuan is a network engineer

[steep grail]

reading it, ingesting it.

ok so it's not really bufferbloat really. Just a label and it's not something that can be fixed by the consumer. But the policing is mentioned as an alleviation. Does that mean just limiting max bandwidth?

[peak cloak]

yeah, that's what your isp does

[steep grail]

He does mention Mirotik can do it though. Do you do it for yours?

[peak cloak]

he meant that as what the ISP can do to reduce the QOS ques

[steep grail]

ohh i see.

But we can do it on our routers, do you see a benefit?

[peak cloak]

well routeros can do it, but what he meant was changing the policies on the ISP end. So like an ISP which uses routeros can do it

[peak cloak]

no

[steep grail]

Also, every article online says that bufferbloat score matters. This is just widespread misinformation?

[peak cloak]

unless you really have limited bandwidth, then qos could actually help

[peak cloak]

basically

at least that's how I understand it

[steep grail]

k got it. Would it be possible to actually feel the bufferbloat only when you reach near your max ISP speeds? If you're using below that, you wouldn't notice it? Let's say if you had very limited DL and you were watching a stream and you needed just below the max amount, you might see an effect?

[peak cloak]

any actual bufferbloat is caused by ISP qos

not by your router

[steep grail]

ah

do all ISPs have that bufferbloat when reaching max speeds?

some are just better at policing?

[peak cloak]

idk, it's basically some complicated QOS queue thing

idk too much about it

[steep grail]

ah k. lol. Because I have an IQrouter which is designed to minimize the "bloat" but it does it by removing a large portion of bandwidth. Anyway, the router causing ethernet drops so that's out.

Thanks very much. Will finalize the purchases soon!

[peak cloak]

it's more when a link gets too congested

on the ISP end

[steep grail]

ya

ISP ok

[tender hazel]

it really depends, it is really about intelligently dropping traffic

what is generally meant by "bufferbloat" is when you are queueing all traffic using some simple technique like pfifo

certain types of traffic that need to get put through faster with fewer drops can get dropped more frequently or suffer slight delays

when ISPs do shaping for customers, it is generally with one of the simpler queueing mechanisms like fifo, and when policing is being done it just drops packets when the limit is exceeded

either way the traffic is treated more or less equally, so your bulk downloads are treated in the same way as packets that you probably want to have delivered faster with fewer drops

a lot of the AQM solutions like fq_codel and cake are really basically automated QoS solutions

they recognize traffic based on a certain profile and make drop decisions based on that

the reason why they can work is because you can have your home router use one of those AQM solutions set for a slightly lower amount than the amount you actually get from the ISP as your maximum

that way your router is the one that for the most part ends up making the drop vs. transmit decisions for each packet

but ISPs can also queue their customers with things like fq_codel and in that case there's no reason to duplicate that on your router

[tender hazel]

I've never heard of IQrouter, but it looks like garbage

it is probably actually just using fq_codel or cake

but if it is really slowing down your download or upload speed, possibly it tries to measure the maximum rate of your line and is overreacting to packet loss

I don't think that @hollow marlin was implying that there is no point to queueing mechanisms like fq_codel or cake, but instead taking issue with the term "bufferbloat" since the buffers used to limit individual customers at the ISP level are typically fairly small

taildrop is an issue though that you get from fifo queues, becuase the queue can fill up with stuff you don't care about and then it just starts dropping whatever comes after, which is often stuff you do care about

at the ISP I work for, we shape each of our customers with RED queues, which are better than FIFO but not as good as AQM solutions

[steep grail]

hmmm, interesting stuff. I use Verizon Fios. Not sure if you have any info on them. I have a 300 Mb/s plan DL/UL. IQrouter is indeed measuring max rate and doing some finnicky stuff to get that A+ bufferbloat score. Could be good, but the router isn't reliable itself so it failed on the most important part.

I'm also looking at Mikrotik vs Cisco for the router I need. Pros/cons? You think Mikro is solid for me?

Mikro seems to be better value.

But performance/reliability

no clue

[tender hazel]

at home here I go from A to A+ on the bufferbloat tests just by enabling the fq_codel queues I have set up for qos on my mikrotik upload and download

my official ISP speeds are like 300 down and 100 up, but they actually give me more like 330 down and 115 up

[peak cloak]

so do I

[tender hazel]

so I have fq_codel queues set up on my upload and download on the mikrotik for the 300 down and 100 up, and what that does is that means that my router makes the decision as to whether to drop a packet rather than the ISP

[steep grail]

ok that's good to hear. 2 users for Mikrotik here lol. and nice that I can just enable fq_codel easily.

[tender hazel]

and my router is going to make a more informed decision than the ISP because of the fq_codel mechanism

[steep grail]

also researching SFP. You think I need it? Only if I plan on getting 1 Gb internet?

[peak cloak]

interesting

[peak cloak]

not really, unless you want to do fiber

I do, so I got the HEX S

[steep grail]

oh it's a fiber connection only? not rj45

[peak cloak]

sfp?

[steep grail]

thought it was like a rj45 type connector that goes into the router.

that allows for 1 Gb speeds

[peak cloak]

no

[steep grail]

o ok lol

[peak cloak]

all ports on the HEX are gigabit

[steep grail]

so what is SFP

[tender hazel]

you can get 1Gbps over regular copper, SFP allows you to connect fiber directly, or SFP+ allows for 10 gig

[peak cloak]

small formfactor pluggable

you put sfp modules into it

which you can connect to fiber

[tender hazel]

QSFP+ allows for 40G, SFP28 allows for 25G

[steep grail]

yeah that's the one. Is there benefit to having the fiber go direct? better ping?

[peak cloak]

for fios you can't

[steep grail]

o damn

[peak cloak]

and there really isn't any

unless you want to get rid of the ONT

what optimum here does is even more annoying

no seperate ONT, all in the router, and because it's gpon, there is no easy way to bypass it

[steep grail]

I'd love to get rid of the ONT actually, if I don't need it.

gpon?

[peak cloak]

me too since I only use internet, but eh. Fios gpon is apperently very complicated with authenication and certs

[peak cloak]

type of fiber

kinda

[steep grail]

k

[steep grail]

not quite sure what to make of that. Is one better?

[peak cloak]

active is technically better as you get a dedicated fiber

not a shared resource

[steep grail]

so Fios uses passive?

[peak cloak]

yes

most fiber providers do

at least here

[steep grail]

mm I see. So in order me to skip ONT, they'd have to make changes on the backend which isn't probable.

[tender hazel]

you usually don't have a choice of what you get, business customers will more often get active ethernet but home customers will usually get GPON

[steep grail]

ah

[tender hazel]

the issue is that to roll out active ethernet you basically need switches close to the customer

which need to be powered

so you can't just stick them in some handhole underground

[steep grail]

interesting stuff. Looking at verizon fios business page right now lol

[tender hazel]

they don't necessarily have to be super close to the customer but the issue is that you would have to have a single unbroken fiber line from where the switches are to where the customer is, which gets more and more complicated as you get further from the switches

[peak cloak]

people have reverse engineered att fiber gpon, but fios's connection is pretty complex I heard

[steep grail]

plan isn't too shabby. But I'm getting a great deal now. Would have to pay $30 more a month, for not sure how much better reliability.

[tender hazel]

at the ISP I work for, we selected adtran because they support third party ONT's

[peak cloak]

for what

[steep grail]

for the business plan of fios

lol

[tender hazel]

so even though our head end is adtran a customer could put in whatever ONT they wanted theoretically and it would work with our system

[peak cloak]

even fios bussiness is gpon

if you want active you need $$

[tender hazel]

but what we might end up doing is buying GPON SFP modules from adtran and installing them in hex s devices

[steep grail]

oh damn

ok should I just skip Hex S then and go Hex

[tender hazel]

we use hex s devices as managed media converters at the moment for active ethernet (essentially a DIY ONT)

[steep grail]

nice

[peak cloak]

@steep grail I think this is active ethernet

https://www.verizon.com/business/products/networks/connectivity/ethernet/

[steep grail]

ya but not fiber

that one

[peak cloak]

fiber is ethernet

[tender hazel]

no, that's layer 2 services

[peak cloak]

ah

[tender hazel]

that business ethernet

[steep grail]

looks like regular cable to me, this is what I was looking at.

https://www.verizon.com/business/products/internet-tv-services/internet/fios-business-internet/

[tender hazel]

they either deliver it over MPLS L2VPN or metro ethernet

customers buy it when they want an ISP to give them basically a virtual ethernet cable from point A to point Z

[peak cloak]

still gpon

[steep grail]

how do you know this fios business is gpon?

[peak cloak]

fios is gpon

[steep grail]

o ok lol

[peak cloak]

if you want active you need to pay

because they need to specifically accomidate you

[steep grail]

oh ic. Is it a one time fee or monthly?

does fios do it if I asked?

[peak cloak]

no clue

[steep grail]

k lol

[peak cloak]

but it probobly aint cheap

[tender hazel]

you can get a lot of speed out of GPON so it isn't that GPON is bad in all cases

[steep grail]

want that amazing reliability+ low ping. Good to know options/prices.

[peak cloak]

yeah

[tender hazel]

it just tends to be more vendor locked, depending on what vendor they are using for the OLT

[peak cloak]

if only they gave an sfp module

[tender hazel]

we've avoided calix because we don't want the vendor lock

[steep grail]

Fios did mention they are getting rid of the ONT last I spoke to them, going into straight modem/ont combo or something. But that plan hasn't come in yet.

[tender hazel]

I know juan uses calix and I know they are good

[peak cloak]

because if fios gave you can sfp module, you could just plug that into whatever sfp port you want

[peak cloak]

nooooo

[tender hazel]

but to me, I don't want to get locked into a single vendor

[steep grail]

I swear, 2 years ago. They said they were going to do it in a year, but it never happened. lol

[peak cloak]

that's what optimum does, and the passthough doesn't work apparently

so you still have NAT

[tender hazel]

router/ONT combo is often worse than a separate ONT

[peak cloak]

definatly

[tender hazel]

part of the issue is the inability to bridge the traffic if you want to, it depends on what the router supports

[steep grail]

maybe that's why Fios changed their minds.

[tender hazel]

the other part of the issue is that it ends up encouraging you to install your router at the fiber entry point in the building

[peak cloak]

I even asked optimum if they offer a seperate ont, they said no, even to business

[tender hazel]

and that usually isn't where you actually want your router

the entry point of the fiber might be in the basement, and you don't want your router in some corner of the basement because your wifi is going to suck upstairs

[steep grail]

this thread answers the questions about Fios capability of doing SFP. Basically no.

https://forums.verizon.com/t5/Fios-Internet/Can-you-bypass-ONT-with-sfp-router/td-p/880892

[tender hazel]

so it makes a lot more sense to have a bridging ONT at the entry point into the home, then cable can be run from there to where the router is

[peak cloak]

the way fios does it is nice. Fiber -> ONT, then moca to take advantage of cable infa, or just ethernet.

[steep grail]

Seems very good for residential.

[tender hazel]

most people really don't need more than 1Gbps at the moment.. even people who have 1Gbps normally use only a tiny bit of bandwidth

at home I mean

[steep grail]

When I called Fios about my downtimes with ethernet they said they haven't been dropping at all so it had to be router. 1-2 years ago it ended up being ethernet cable quality. Now this time, it's definitely router issue.

think this router just started failing

[tender hazel]

you have 1Gbps and 99% of the time you are just downloading 10-20Mbps or less

that's the typical situation

[steep grail]

ok Hex it is. @tender hazel you recommend the tplink omada for wireless AP as well?

[tender hazel]

the high speeds are only for when you are downloading something big and want to get it fast

I haven't used them, but they are well reviewed

[steep grail]

what do you use for wireless AP

[tender hazel]

I have mikrotik wireless at home, but their AC wave2 and AX support is still in beta

so the omada would outperform them at the moment and is easier to configure

[steep grail]

k

[tender hazel]

my main router is the RB4011 wifi model, and I also have a hap ac and an Audience

[steep grail]

oh so u went for an all-in-one.

[tender hazel]

I don't have a big apartment so having this many wireless AP devices is probably overkill

[steep grail]

you don't think separating the ethernet and wifi would be more reliable for each?

[tender hazel]

no, but that is only because I went with such a high end one

like the RB4011 wifi is stupidly powerful

way more than I would need at home

[steep grail]

I mean I don't mind paying it. The cost would be close to the same of AP + router.

I just want most reliability.

this is also a Mikrotik product, so there's that.

[tender hazel]

https://mikrotik.com/product/rb4011igs_5hacq2hnd_in#fndtn-testresults

[peak cloak]

RB4011 can do 10 gig routing

[tender hazel]

yeah it's a beast of a router, when you get something that powerful, the all in one solution ends up being quite manageable

[steep grail]

Like what is the difference between this and a gaming router for the same price? They both have high end hardware. Is this one just more reliable because of the brand?

[tender hazel]

it's a bigger issue if it is a weaker device because wireless takes CPU power and routing takes CPU power so if the CPU isn't powerful enough to do both then

[steep grail]

ah ic

I think my router got cooked slowly over time and CPU degraded? who knows.

[peak cloak]

but it only has 1 10gig port so if you want actual 10 gig routing you need a 10 g switch

[tender hazel]

a lot of the home routers don't have a very long lifespan

and vendors maybe release firmware upgrades for a few years and then stop

[peak cloak]

probobly markup, quality of parts, and bad software

[tender hazel]

because they want you to get a new router every 4 years

[steep grail]

mmm

i can see that

[tender hazel]

mikrotik releases firmware upgrades basically forever

you can take a 12-15 year old mikrotik router and upgrade it to the current software

[peak cloak]

they really just need a more user friendly ui for your common folk

[tender hazel]

obviously if you have a router that is that old you would probably want to replace it but still, you have the ability to upgrade

[tender hazel]

Yeah I think that is what their app is designed for

their android and phone app

[steep grail]

they have a phone app to manage desktop stuff? lol

they should just go full desktop UI friendliness

[peak cloak]

yeah, but just "port" that over to the webui

[tender hazel]

yeah.. it has a "basic mode" which is like the quickset feature in the web ui but has a few more options, and then the advanced mode in the phone app is like working with the full blown UI

[peak cloak]

you saw the routeros demo?

[steep grail]

yeah, it looks good enough.

[tender hazel]

I think they should port it over to the webUI and have the basic mode and the advanced mode like in the app

[steep grail]

check out reviews for your router. @tender hazel https://www.amazon.com/MikroTik-RB4011iGS-5HacQ2HnD-IN/dp/B07QMNNVG8/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=mikrotik&qid=1620529244&sr=8-10#customerReviews

[peak cloak]

yeah

[steep grail]

some reviews mentioning flawed 5ghz

u experience any bad stuff?

[tender hazel]

no

[peak cloak]

the thing with routeros too is

it will let you screw up

and break everything

[tender hazel]

my 5ghz has never stopped working

[peak cloak]

so you have like full control

[steep grail]

how hard will it be to just set up regular ethernet/fcol thing/wifi?

[peak cloak]

just ethernet/wifi is setup by default

[tender hazel]

not hard at all

[steep grail]

that bloatware setting too. Easy find and turn on?

[tender hazel]

you can use quickset in winbox or webfig, or the iphone/android app

[steep grail]

ya

reviews are saying "BE PREPARED TO LEARN A LOT"

don't wanna do all that atm

[tender hazel]

the bufferbloat stuff, no, that requires some manual stuff

[steep grail]

damn. how many clicks to get that working?

[tender hazel]

and you have to upgrade to routeros v7 beta to be able to use the latest fq_codel mechanism

[steep grail]

ah

[peak cloak]

https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:TOC

manual for router os

[steep grail]

u seeing any benefit of the fq_codel besides bufferbloat test?

[tender hazel]

it is smarter than RED in terms of what it drops or passes through

so if you are a gamer it would be preferable to have fq_codel over RED

[steep grail]

k

does Hex have that also?

Hex has a better color scheme.

This combo one looks so ugly lol

[tender hazel]

yes, just have to upgrade to the v7 beta to get it

[peak cloak]

hex runs routeros, so yeah

[steep grail]

ok

[tender hazel]

the combo one is black

[steep grail]

yeah looks really bland

90's style lol

big ol box

hex is blue and white

looks slick

[hollow marlin]

That's correct. My comment is typically bufferbloat in the real sense is within the ISPs network, well upstream of the customer. At the customer handoff it's not too much of an impact as you said, usually the buffers are shallow. If an ISP makes the buffers too deep for say 32 customers on a PON, no amount of changes a single customer can do to fix it.

[peak cloak]

isn't the rb4011 metal

the hex is plastic

[tender hazel]

yeah the rb4011 is metal, it is a giant heatsink basically

so the passive cooling is fantastic, runs a lot cooler than any other mikrotik device I have

[peak cloak]

kinda a material downgrade for me from ER-X to HEX S, but I guess better OS and internals

[steep grail]

oh ic. metal is good.

damn why can't they spraypaint these metal ones.

haha

ok so now I gotta think harder.

[wise sedge]

do you need a ups for a synology nas?

[tender hazel]

Yup - given the small buffers typically used for that, it is hard for them to "bloat" which is why I agree the terminology is really not very good. It is really just that the ISP is often not going to make the best decisions for what traffic to drop for a given customer because they use more simplistic queueing mechanisms like FIFO or RED which really do not factor in the type of traffic on a per customer-basis. Whereas AQM's like fq_codel and cake are more like doing some kind of automated per-customer QoS in that they can differentiate between types of flows based on certain attributes/factors they detect related to that flow and make more intelligent decisions as to what to drop or allow through on a per-customer basis.

[steep grail]

it says that metal absorbs wi-fi signal. Isn't that a con for the metal material?

[rocky badge]

Any NAS I'd put a UPS on

[tender hazel]

no - the antennas are external

[steep grail]

ah k

[tender hazel]

if the RB4011 wifi had internal antennas with a metal case it would be pretty awful

[rocky badge]

You don't want unexpected power loss especially if it uses RAM cache

[tender hazel]

the case acts like a faraday cage

it would block all wireless

but the antennas outside of the metal box, completely different story

[wise sedge]

I am trying to move away from google photos and the costs are starting to add up...

[steep grail]

but the antennas have a metal encasing no?

[peak cloak]

no

[steep grail]

o ok

[peak cloak]

they would be pretty terrible antennas if they did

[tender hazel]

the antennas have black plastic around them

they are meant to blend in with the metal of the router casing

[steep grail]

ic

watching a youtube video and this guy mentions he always has to replace plastic switches every 2 years and never replaces metal ones.

[tender hazel]

metal acts as a natural heatsink which means the device runs cooler

[steep grail]

yeah

CPU not toasting

k i gotta go metal for sure, just wish I had better color options.

maybe I gotta go tplink

[tender hazel]

my hap ac has lasted for like 5 or 6 years so far and is still going strong

it is plastic but runs a lot hotter than my 4011

[steep grail]

yep

[tender hazel]

more like 60 degree CPU temperature rather than my 4011's pretty constant 39 degree CPU temp

but honestly, I would worry more about what the router can actually do, rather than being too concerned about how cool it looks like it is some UFO

often the worst routers are the ones that look like alien spaceships about to launch

[steep grail]

lol well it's not a matter of how cool it looks. I just don't want a big black box in my small apartment. Would stand out like a sore thumb.

tplink has a dark blue switch.

[tender hazel]

the 4011 isn't that big

it's smaller than the router that my ISP provides

[steep grail]

I guess in contrast to my current one it is, but yeah.

[tender hazel]

about half the size of that monster

my 4011 is about the width of my hand, and about 20% more than the length of my hand

[steep grail]

going to check size right now of my current and compare.

ya it's huge. it's 12x12x4 compared to my current 8.2x5.5x1.5

I think small is undervalued as well.

I can get a small switch and small AP

actual use-case size

[tender hazel]

uh

I think that's a bit off actually

are you looking at inches?

[steep grail]

it's 11.8 by 11.8 technically

per amazon yea

[tender hazel]

no, it is 9x4.7x1.2

[steep grail]

strange. you just measure it?

[tender hazel]

12x12x4 is the size of the box it comes in

[steep grail]

o ok

[tender hazel]

I don't think you care about the size of the cardboard box

https://mikrotik.com/product/rb4011igs_5hacq2hnd_in

[steep grail]

idk though, the pictures seem like the box is still way bigger than my router. let me get the amazon link for u

[tender hazel]

the product page has the dimensions, and I can guarantee this is a fair bit smaller than a regular 8.5x11 piece of paper

[steep grail]

https://www.amazon.com/IQrouter-Self-Optimizing-Router-Improved-Quality/dp/B07Y8TQ5C6/ref=dp_prsubs_1?pd_rd_i=B07Y8TQ5C6&psc=1

[tender hazel]

it is about 60% of the size of an 8.5x11 piece of paper

[steep grail]

hmm ok.

Well it's bigger, but not as much bigger as I thought. But the other thing is. I already have a network switch attached to my current router.

So I don't need those additional ports on this one.

I can go smaller.

[tender hazel]

there is the hap ac3

[steep grail]

k will look at it

[tender hazel]

I believe it is a plastic enclosure but it has these ventilation holes over the body

[steep grail]

ya was just gonna say

[tender hazel]

but it has a USB port which is nice

[steep grail]

ya this is my size router current.

gotta go metal though, minimize chances of having failure.

done with plastic.

had to replace several routers past few years, never even considered material at the time.

actually just 2 routers in recent memory, before that I don't remember.

2 including current*

[tender hazel]

my plastic mikrotik hap ac, while it runs hotter, has lasted me 6 years, which is longer than any other routers I've used

and it still works reliably

they use good components

[steep grail]

mikro just good with QC looks like.

ya

I actually could go bigger and get rid of the network switch I have...but that'd be wasteful.

[tender hazel]

in my case I don't have a switch at home so my 4011 does that job for me

I don't really need any more than 10 ports

how many devices do you have at home wired in?

[steep grail]

lemme count

8, and my network switch is plastic too lol

but it's not running hot.

[tender hazel]

so you could actually run everything through a 4011 if you wanted instead of using a separate switch

[steep grail]

yep. But then I'd have to toss out the switch I have, which is a waste.

I think I wanna try router + AP

never tried it before, I hear good things :0

[tender hazel]

if you mean separate router + AP, that's fine too

it can be nice to be able to upgrade the AP separately from the router

so there are advantages to such a setup as @peak cloak said

[steep grail]

yeah for sure. Wish these Hex small routers came in metal. Great colors though at least.

Hex S is metal, but black. TPlink might have blue gotta confirm.

also S is SFP which I don't need.

[tender hazel]

I'm pretty sure the hex S is dark grey plastic

[steep grail]

oh really k

[tender hazel]

most people usually find the white and baby blue colors of the hex to be garish

I guess it isn't universal though 🙂

[steep grail]

yeah preference thing 🍉

[tender hazel]

are there any metal tp-link routers? I haven't seen any

[little schooner]

@tender hazel maybe in their business line of products yes

[tender hazel]

possibly, but I don't know about their business products

at least when it comes to the routers

[little schooner]

https://www.tp-link.com/us/business-networking/vpn-router/tl-r600vpn/

looks like just 1 router model

oh wait actually https://www.tp-link.com/us/business-networking/omada-sdn-router/

they look metal

[tender hazel]

yeah that is metal

Static/Dynamic IP,PPPoE/Russian PPPoE, PPTP/Russian PPTP, L2TP/Russian L2TP, Bigpond Cable

there is a Russian PPPoE that is different from regular PPPoE?

[steep grail]

ya i saw that few mins ago, only black color.

[rocky badge]

different encryption?

there's also russian pptp and l2tp

[steep grail]

I think all of them are black. Have to suck it up.

[tender hazel]

yeah I see all three have russian flavors, but I've never heard of such a thing outside of this TP-Link device

[rocky badge]

yeah

[tender hazel]

mikrotiks are very popular in russia, they are commonly used instead of cisco by almost all businesses, but mikrotik doesn't say they support "Russian PPPoE"

[rocky badge]

maybe some other vendors/devices have them in a region specific firmware?

idk i don't live in russia 😂

[tender hazel]

or "Russian L2TP" or "Russian PPTP"

[rocky badge]

and idk shit about russian internet

[tender hazel]

it is just strange that TP-Link advertises that in the specs because I have never seen that before

it seems very random

[steep grail]

why is mikrotik never mentioned in best router lists that are out there.

tplink gets some mention, same with linksys.

[tender hazel]

they might as well be advertising that they support PPPoE and American PPPoE and Canadian PPPoE

[rocky badge]

seems like anything I google is for tplink too

or for other vendors to add it?

IPTV over pppoe?

"dual access" seems to be mentioned a lot with russian pppoe

[tender hazel]

b/c mikrotik routers have a huge feature set, so it tends to overwhelm the regular home customer who only wants to buy a simple plug and play device

[steep grail]

ic

[tender hazel]

so they are not usually reviewed with the typical home routers

[rocky badge]

https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2179075-how-can-i-connect-pppoe-russia-version-dual-access

https://community.ui.com/questions/PPPoE-Dual-Access-in-router-mode/4658ffff-ef53-4b64-b5e4-4ca518a736c6

[tender hazel]

tplink/linksys/dlink etc are all designed for the average home customer, but mikrotik has features that go well beyond that

@steep grail also mikrotik routers are not typically stored in big stores like best buy

[steep grail]

ya i had never heard of them b4 today lol

another popular one is the EdgeRouter X. Any exp with them?

[tender hazel]

@steep grail @peak cloak recently switched from edge router to mikrotik hex s

[little schooner]

My dad uses the EdgeRouter X. He hasn't complained for months since it was installed

The last router he had did not support Google QUIC transport protocol and that was breaking his internet to basically most media sites

[tender hazel]

Edge router is ubiquiti’s attempt to compete with mikrotik in the router market. It isn’t bad. But it doesn’t quite compete at the same level. The same way as ubiquiti wireless is better than mikrotik wireless

[little schooner]

I have the edgerouter 4, it is so much faster than the old edgerouter units

I can tell the difference right away

4 core proc helps a ton

[steep grail]

hmm interesting

they don't release many models looks like

edge 4 is 4 years old

x is even older

[rocky badge]

"UISP"

UISP is a new lineup that's supposedly going to run along side of edgemax

but managed exclusively through the UISP controller like UniFi

[steep grail]

Ubiquiti EdgeMax ?

mmmm

UISP i couldn't find though.

[tender hazel]

At the isp level the bigger providers are ripping out their edge routers and replacing them with higher end mikrotiks because they can’t handle the high throughput

[rocky badge]

UISP is still beta

lol

[steep grail]

ah

[tender hazel]

UISP isn’t still beta

[rocky badge]

the UISP hw is

[tender hazel]

Ok, the hardware

[rocky badge]

UISP = UNMS and the new hardware

So its able to manage airmax/airfiber/edgemax

and its also this new lineup

[tender hazel]

UISP is the new name for UNMS

[rocky badge]

its still very beta from what I've seen lol

[tender hazel]

UNMS is the old name for UISP

[rocky badge]

I'd never use edgemax if I was an ISP 😂

my ISP is using Cisco & Juniper in the core/aggregation

Adtran total access for access layer

[tender hazel]

Cisco and Juniper only make sense for dense deployments

I.e more urban areas

[rocky badge]

They're across the state

[tender hazel]

We used to use Cisco in rural deployments

[rocky badge]

With multiple names

[tender hazel]

And we had to buy such underpowered Cisco models

It was insane

Paying 10 times as much for a Cisco router for a rural area with 20 customers than a mikrotik that could run circles around it

If you are buying a single big super high end router it can really be worth it but on the lower end you pay a huge premium

[rocky badge]

Rn they're aiming for 30k customers

excluding business

[tender hazel]

In one place we have $10,000 worth of Cisco equipment to provide 10Mbps service to two retail customers

[rocky badge]

they've got a university to switch from spectrum enterprise to them

[tender hazel]

With mikrotik we can do the same thing with a $200 device

[rocky badge]

and trying to get a school district

[tender hazel]

it is really hard to justify $10k worth of Cisco equipment for 2 customers who pay like $100 a month total

[rocky badge]

most customers have Adtran 452s

Some have UFiber Nano Gs

while business gets active ethernet

[lone sun]

🤔 Is the ZTE f660 just a router or is it also a modem?

[tender hazel]

@rocky badge we are rolling out adtran units as well but we are growing more gradually

Our sites with fiber don’t have enough customers yet to warrant immediately jumping to high end Cisco or juniper

Anyway we used to be an entirely Cisco shop and it was a huge mistake

Bought the Cisco koolaid that mikrotik was some tinkertoy manufacturer

And we ended up spending so much money on Cisco routers that it prevented us from taking on more customers or improving speed packages for existing customers

So we got to provide slower internet to fewer people, but I guess the upside is that our equipment had a little “Cisco” logo printed on it?

[wheat gyro]

hello for some reason my pivpn isn't working

help

[thick minnow]

Again, more info might be needed

[coral relic]

hey, was directed here from tech-support, I did an apt update / apt upgrade on a couple of remote Ubuntu 18.04 servers last night and got the following error on both of them

[rose sparrow]

Could you please elaborate

[versed nebula]

is the asus ax86u a good deal right now on amazon.ca or should I wait for a wifi 6e router?

[wicked geode]

hey i was trying to port-forward in my router for minecraft but i failed in all attempts then found that my isp is using something called carrier-grade nat, is there anyway to overcome this, thanks in advance (wel i understood the definition of carrier-grade nat i just need the solution)

[peak cloak]

no way to port forward with CGNAT easily.

what you either need is to rent a vps in the cloud for a public ip

and then tunnel that to your home

[wicked geode]

any other way than port-forwarding?

[peak cloak]

or you can use something like zerotier or ngrok, neither of which I used

zerotier is a SDN solution

ngork basically handles tunneling for you

[wicked geode]

ok....let me google and find mo about these

[peak cloak]

well the whole point of port forwarding is to get around NAT and to map a port on the public ip to an internal device

now an isp would cgnat because they are running out of ipv4 ips

if your isp has ipv6 then you could use that instead

[wicked geode]

well professional isp connections mostly dont use this carrier-grade nat right?

[peak cloak]

wdym

with residental constumers all people care about is connection to the internet

so for them it makes no difference if they get a public ip or not

business customers though may want a public ip

maybe your isp offers public ips

then the high end business customers just want peering

and/or ip transit

not really an ip, since they can aquire ips themselves

but that's $$$

[wicked geode]

ya.....the buissness connection from my isp is little costly , but not so much so i better try it

[peak cloak]

you could try ngrok though first

never used it myself since I have a public ip

[wicked geode]

ok i will give it a shot

[peak cloak]

others reccomend it though

[wicked geode]

tnx for your help bro

[peak cloak]

np

[rocky badge]

Nice

I mean, idk much about decision making for my ISP, so idk why they went with Cisco or what other vendors they looked at

[vale reef]

mikrotik mikrotik /s

[rocky badge]

I know they deploy UniFi and UNMS connected stuff (UFiber, Airfiber), adtran, and Cisco but not much else

[wicked geode]

it worked thanks bro

[tender hazel]

@rocky badge well there are a few frequent reasons for going with Cisco.. one very valid reason is that for big high end devices that push a lot of packets, like for really really large ISPs, the costs start to make sense

[rocky badge]

Yeah

[tender hazel]

the main reason a lot of smaller ISPs end up using them is not usually quite as good of a reason - either they use them because they know big ISP X used them and so they must be good, or they use them because they have people working there who got cisco certs and while getting the certification program they got indoctrinated in the "cisco is best, only buy cisco" mantra (yeah, the instructors actually teach that)

but then you run into certain problems

we can provide a lot more services than our telco can in the same areas, even where they have cabling, because the population density is so low that they are using just Cisco 800 series and 1800 series routers, anything else would be too expensive

and with those routers there are a lot of services you can't offer

customer wants any sort of layer 2 tunnel to a main office? the telco can't offer that if you live outside of the city

whereas if you are not locked into buying cisco and only cisco for the entire network, you can use different vendors for those outside devices, and alternate vendors tend to charge less for more powerful routers with larger feature sets

the only reason for going with an 800 series or 1800 series router for some small rural site is for standardization if you use their bigger brothers for your larger sites.. but then you have to accept that you are paying a lot of $$ per Mbps of capacity, and getting a very small feature set, vs. if you bought from a different vendor

[hollow marlin]

Easy summary is Juniper/Cisco lead the development in networking. Which means they typically support nearly all implementations, most flexible switchchips, and are majority first in development for new protocols. The only downside is the cost, especially outside T1/T2 ISPs. But what you get in return is the previously mentioned and a huge chunk of that price is documentation and support.

Of course this is not true to their entire lineup as you move down, less power or configurable chipsets mean less feature and performance

[tender hazel]

I wasn't too impressed by Cisco's support.. when we did have a big issue it took them a long time to fix it.. we were waiting for a patch for a year and a half I think, or more.. and when it finally came out, the same release broke something else major

[hollow marlin]

This is sort of an advantage with Mikrotik and cost/performance and even if chip cannot do a feature in HW, most the time it lets you perform it in software

Support across most vendors is hit and miss. Having dealt with Cisco TAC, Juniper JTAC, Adtran, Calix, Metaswitch, it varies widely

Such as JTAC has provided a dozen patches within 4 hours of use reporting a major bug, other times I have had cases open for 2 weeks trying to get a simple answer on a crash report

[tender hazel]

the 4 hours is really good

for us the cisco tac's slow response was a big problem - what was broken in the first place was RADIUS disconnect packet handling for PPPoE so we couldn't disconnect customers who had not paid their bill and had to cut off customers manually.. when they finally fixed that like a year and a half later, they broke rate limiting on PPPoE so all customers had unlimited speeds suddenly

we weren't too impressed

I also know some ISPs that use.. not the greatest architecture for their network.. because they allowed the devices to determine the network architecture instead of figuring out the right design and implementing that

so they made decisions for network architecture based on Cisco device costs and license costs

Which often means this crazy vlan trunking all over the place

[hollow marlin]

A huge part of the problem is solely IOS-XE as its a monolith OS. IOS-XR/NX-OS both are modular and makes patching so much easier and streamlined. I like XR as its so similar to Junos and in my experience the cases get resolved around on par with TAC

[hollow marlin]

Pretty typical and Ive seen this more in deployments that do not use Cisco/Juniper as they are missing some desired features for an optimal design and also usual means work around after work around.

Example being situation as the old Calix B6 chassis, the line cards are ran in a ring and even though they claim support for LAG on the uplinks, in production it never worked which meant designing around shutting down an interface of the second uplink and during a failure required manual intervention or scripting. Also with Ciena, lots of my issue come from STP. Ciena does not have a PVST BPDU filter and I need to take into account in designs with L2VPNs to ensure it does not make into our network

Multi-vendor in my experiences leads to dirty designs due to work arounds as even though standards are pretty solid, too many instances of vendors not full implementing specific features due to software or HW

[low pond]

I can safely say I don't understand any of the above : ^ )

[waxen scroll]

@hollow marlin i used to set up EAPS rings

[hollow marlin]

Yeah the B6 was not playing well with ERPS, at least at the time a 3850 was just upstream and EPS/ERPS didn't cooperate

[waxen scroll]

Let's trigger Lurick today

https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport/comments/n8ii1x/senior_tech_got_taught_about_basic_network_concept/

@hollow marlin this is precisely why I toss resumes with 6 new certs in a year.

Hell, I met a CCIE written who couldn't do basic OSPF troubleshooting

[tender hazel]

we get quite a few applicants with CCNA and CCNP who can't explain what a VLAN is

[waxen scroll]

😄

thats extra embarrassing for a CCNP because you should know advanced BGP and stuff like that at that point

[tender hazel]

and we get some crazy answers, like they sortof know how to configure them but they don't know what they would be used for

[waxen scroll]

is this verbal or a quiz?

[tender hazel]

verbal

[waxen scroll]

if it was a quiz its even worse cause they had google

[tender hazel]

we have it in as one of our interview questions

because it tends to pick out a lot of people who have the paper certs and no actual real practical knowledge

[waxen scroll]

whats the next worst question?

[hollow marlin]

There are a lot of cases where I feel I'm the only one who put effort into both my NPs. There's a reason why IE labs are the only cert that has weight

[tender hazel]

when they list acronyms on their resume and they can't even answer what they stand for

that's another red flag

let alone explain how they work

[waxen scroll]

another fun disqualifer is that HR says we have to do all phone screens the exact same way. So if we have questions about a tech the candidate says "I dont know [tech]" we have to keep asking the rest of the questions so they can say "I dont know". We have some people who get real hot headed and lose their shit

its like OK, now we know you would suck to work with

lol

(its so people cant call us racist, sexist, etc)

Why did candidate X have an easy interview and candidate Z didn't?

[tender hazel]

at one point I went away from my job for about a year and a half and wound up going back to work there again

and when I came back there was a CCIE (who was an instructor as well) and CCNP and CCNA on staff

[clear igloo]

We had a recruiting company send us candidates with acronyms listed all over their resume and when asked about them the best the person could say is "I've heard it used once before". They were literally telling them to put down things regardless of actual knowledge -.-

[tender hazel]

and I see lots of errors on ports

and I'm logging into the routers, and they have all ports set to 100 full and the devices plugged in are on auto

so everything had a duplex mismatch

[waxen scroll]

@clear igloo yep. its a huge problem especially with college grads. Recruiters were saying stuff like "you had a class on windows server, so you can put active directory down"

[tender hazel]

I tried to tell them that auto negotiation doesn't work when you have one end forced

but I had to actually show them before they believed me

in a lab

we moved everything to auto negotiation after that because everything was auto negotiating correctly anyway

[waxen scroll]

sigh

people really gotta remember the OSI model too. my NOC doesn't always do that when people complain about slowness. I start at step 1, physical

the entire path

errors and drops are the #1 cause

[tender hazel]

The annoying thing with this is that it ends up wasting our time, because we end up not having any clue whether this person knows anything or not until we call them in for an interview

we don't end up hiring them and it was a waste of our time

[waxen scroll]

I think its even worse if you go to a legit university for IT work (non-coding) too cause its mostly theory, you aren't necessarily learning the actual products. I wonder how hard its been for those people to find IT jobs.

the less legit places are more trade school-like and you have hands on

[stoic stag]

Hey can someone help me with a Wifi router suggestion? I live in a kind of big house but the wifi is spread across 3 apartments(all family) and there's a lot of concrete for it to get through and we've never had properly working internet towards the back of the house

[peak cloak]

use multiple APs

best solution

[stoic stag]

we have an access point set up towards the back of the house and it's even in a bedroom and it's still not working properly

the IP said it's not on there end and i spent all day on the phone with them after they had basically done everything, the internet works great downstairs but once you go upstairs it just doesn't work

[peak cloak]

it's wired?

[peak cloak]

yeah that's not the ISPs problem

[stoic stag]

yeah it's hardwired, we got a bunch of ethernet cables running thru the house, a direct line to one bedroom, one into an AP in the other bedroom

I was wondering if buying a better router or something would help, I was looking into google mesh but I wasn't sure how well that would work

[peak cloak]

if you already have ethernet everywhere mesh won't be better

[tender hazel]

you'll just need more APs in the area of the house where it doesn't work right now

the problem is that any AP or router is always going to be much stronger in terms of wireless than mobile devices like phones

so even if you get a super powerful router, you are still limited by what the antenna in the phone that is connecting to it can handle

installing more APs in more places is the only solution in such a case

[stoic stag]

ahhh...fair any AP's that you recommend?

[tender hazel]

people here seem to recommend the tp-link omada system for multi ap setups like that

[stoic stag]

so that would mean me having to run more ethernet cables throughout the house, we already have a simple 4 port network switch in the living room, i'm assuming i could just run cables off of that?

we have someone that we hire privately to set all that up but i was trying to figure out a way without getting him in

[tender hazel]

yeah, and there is the omada controller that you use to manage the fleet of APs

TP LINK OC200 Omada Cloud Controller

[peak cloak]

keep in mind they take poe input, so you need poe injectors

[peak cloak]

yeah or you can install it on any machine really

[hollow marlin]

Thank god, I rarely see people mention that

[peak cloak]

the tp-link omada come with passive injectors tho

[stoic stag]

oof this just got way more complicated than i thought it would be

[peak cloak]

at least the one I have

EAP225

[stoic stag]

here i was in ignorance thinking with my monkey brain "new router with more antena fix issue"

if this house wasn't made of solid concrete i feel like i'd have way less issues

[peak cloak]

yeah

with that, it's a matter of ap in every room

tp-link even has these wall plate APs

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-EAP225-Wall-MU-Mimo-Wall-Plate-Wireless/dp/B07GRCMJWH

with a switch built in

[stoic stag]

so if i have this correct yeah, from my main wifi router>network switch>run ethernet cables to every room> those wall plates and BOOM

wifi?

[tender hazel]

You’ll want a controller for the APs

[stoic stag]

yeah the TP link controller combo switch thing

would that not work?

[peak cloak]

link?

[stoic stag]

TP link isn't that the brand? the one that was sent earlier

TP LINK OC200 Omada Cloud Controller this

[peak cloak]

oh

that's not a switch

just a controller

[vale reef]

switch is only 10/100

[peak cloak]

oh yeah thanks for the heads up

[vale reef]

np

i ran into the same realization lmao

[stoic stag]

ohhhh

ok cool so which switch and which controller should i go for?

[peak cloak]

https://www.tp-link.com/uk/business-networking/wall-plate-ap/eap235-wall/

[stoic stag]

sorry for all the questions idk jack about all this network stuff

[peak cloak]

^ that one has gigabit

[stoic stag]

sick, idk if i need gigabit i only got 175 down

[peak cloak]

the oc200 should be fine, all it does it act as central managment

[peak cloak]

well without that one you would only get 100

interface speeds go, 10 -> 100 -> 1000

[stoic stag]

ahh ok so i need the gigabit one then

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-EAP225-Wall-MU-Mimo-Wall-Plate-Wireless/dp/B07GRCMJWH this the same one yeah

[peak cloak]

no

although you could just the normal APs

not the wall ones

[stoic stag]

damn

whichever one works best doesn't matter if it's wall mounted or not

https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-8-Port-Gigabit-Ethernet-Unmanaged/dp/B07PFYM5MZ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=LC1M79XOSBLE&dchild=1&keywords=network+switch+8+port+gigabit&qid=1620598140&sprefix=network+switch%2Caps%2C237&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-OC200-Omada-Network-Controller/dp/B07GX6GVB6/ref=pd_lpo_147_t_1/130-9413766-5841016?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07GX6GVB6&pd_rd_r=e6d5a955-84bc-4493-b02f-e75ad67a95a1&pd_rd_w=6dSPh&pd_rd_wg=Jky5R&pf_rd_p=a0d6e967-6561-454c-84f8-2ce2c92b79a6&pf_rd_r=RPBYP54HDDZW4JT343D4&psc=1&refRID=RPBYP54HDDZW4JT343D4

so if i got those, plus the AP's that should solve the issue then yeah?

[peak cloak]

I would get a poe switch so you don't a whole mess with injectors

[stoic stag]

ohhh. can you link one? cuz i got no clue what that means

[peak cloak]

poe = power over ethernet

so the power and the data goes over one cable to the APs

[stoic stag]

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Compliant-Shielded-Optimization-TL-SG1005P/dp/B076HZFY3F/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=poe+switch&qid=1620598263&sr=8-4 oh this?

oh so it doesn't need an external power supply then

[peak cloak]

no

[peak cloak]

yes

[stoic stag]

ok cool

appreciate the help btw

[peak cloak]

just make sure the AP wattage and everything so you don't overload it

and the poe version

[stoic stag]

talking to someone that knows nothing can be mad annoying

which other AP besides those TP ones do u recommend?

just incase

[peak cloak]

mikrotik I heard is good

not as user friendly tho

as for poe versions the EAP225 uses 802.3af or at

or passive poe

so get a switch that can do 802.3af

[stoic stag]

i need to screenshot all this lmao

[peak cloak]

and 12.6W

[stoic stag]

so if i have everything right it should be router>controller> network switch> AP is that right?

[peak cloak]

no

not everything needs to go though controller

[stoic stag]

ohh

[tender hazel]

mikrotik is ok for if you have just one or if you use one of their solutions that is already meant to be quite plug and play (like the Audience), but manually configuring mikrotik capsman can get complicated

[peak cloak]

yeah

[stoic stag]

i just need it to be as simple as possible, we're moving but my brothers are in school and the internet sucks for them rn

i'll keep the same system when we move but i'm dumb so i need it to be as easy as possible

[peak cloak]

the omada stuff is relatively simple

never used the controller tho

because I only have one AP

[stoic stag]

i think im gonna need to put up 3 APs

one in the living room upstairs and two bedrooms

[peak cloak]

yeah we just have a wood and drywall house

so wifi penetration really isn't an issue

and most devices are wired up anyway

[stoic stag]

yeah the caribbean is a lot of brick/concrete

so

[peak cloak]

yeah, more sturdy

[stoic stag]

it's honestly a nightmare

anyway, thanks for the help, if i have any questions i'll try to make them as brief as possible

[steep grail]

You're not going to like this but, I ordered the Asus Ax5400 lol. I went back and forth for awhile. The 4011 Mikrotik apparently runs hot (even with the metal box), then there's the 5ghz issue. The Hex plastic seemed alright because it only powers ethernet so it wouldn't run too hot, but ultimately I just want plug and play right now. Not in the mood for learning anything lol. I was real close to getting the 4011 though then I read about the heat. What sold me on this 5400 is the 4.7 score though. Seems solid and I've never tried an asus router.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BJJ3RGW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[peak cloak]

fair enough

[steep grail]

I was also hoping for the 5011 version to be out by now. Maybe later this year.

[peak cloak]

I would myself never get it

[tender hazel]

that's fine.. the 4011 doesn't run hot though

[steep grail]

reviews saying it does though, maybe depends on bandwidth/usage.

even the hex plastic is cooler.

[tender hazel]

what review?

[steep grail]

just the amazon reviews, search "hot"

[tender hazel]

yeah I see a review where he calls 41C CPU temperature "hot"

41C isn't hot for CPU temperature

[steep grail]

but then there was a hex review saying 31C

maybe wifi just makes things hotter

and the increased surface area of the 4011 doesn't make up for it.

but also, I felt like 5011 is around corner so why get an older model?

3 years now for 4011

[tender hazel]

could be around the corner soon, but they probably won't release that until routeros v7 is stabilized so they can add wifi 6 support

@peak cloak how hot is your hex s running?

[peak cloak]

didn't deploy it yet

[tender hazel]

anyway my hap ac at home idles at like 51 degrees and goes over 60 under load

we have wap ac's installed at my office that normally have the CPU temperature go into the high 70's under load

@steep grail https://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?threads/asus-router-temperatures.72932/

now that's an old thread but probably the new routers are similar temperatures

[steep grail]

ya I guess I'll have to do personal testing on it to see. I did try a netgear duma gaming router 2 years ago, but the bufferbloat managing was terrible and the OS wasn't even giving me my ISP speeds. Returned that for the IQrouter which was good...until now. I'll pick up the Mikrotik on the next go round. I have 30 days to see if this Asus is any good.

[versed nebula]

whats the difference between this and the ax86u?

[steep grail]

tri core vs quad core, and 512MB RAM vs 1GB ram. The ax86 went up in price a lot past few days. So I think the ax82u should be enough.

also the wifi 6 signal strength is stronger on the ax86u.

[shy cosmos]

Hello I have been kinda annoyed on my slow upload speeds, i think my ISP is spectrum, can anybody help?

(I use an ax200 wifi6 pcie adapter)

[tender hazel]

try from a wired connection first

[shy cosmos]

ethernet?

[tender hazel]

yeah

[shy cosmos]

welll i dont have ethernet

i dont have wired internet, i only have an ax200 because my parents want me to use wifi

[tender hazel]

how far are you from the router?

[shy cosmos]

the room next door has the router

[tender hazel]

does any computer in the home have wired ethernet?

[shy cosmos]

yeah,, my brothers PC but idk if he will let me use it

[tender hazel]

you'll just want someone who is wired in to run a speed test

[shy cosmos]

ok

[tender hazel]

and I wouldn't necessarily recommend using google speed test

[shy cosmos]

ima go ask him to do a speed test gime a sec

[tender hazel]

use something like speedtest.net or maybe fast.com

google speed test is not designed to measure the speed of your connection, instead it is designed to measure your speed to a nearby datacenter

[shy cosmos]

Ok so he got 160 down 11 up

@tender hazel

i used speedtest.net

and here are the results

[tender hazel]

ok, so that would indicate the slow upload is on wireless only, if your brother isn't getting that on ethernet

your brother is getting 11Mbps on ethernet so it is some kind of local wireless issue and not something with your ISP

[shy cosmos]

maybe becauuse my parents are using bandwidth

but maybe not because i used my pc around midnight to check when they were sleeping and i still got sub 1 MBPS upload

[tender hazel]

assuming you are using windows, check to see what wireless standard you are connecting with

you can do that by clicking on the "properties" for the wifi connection that you are currently connected to

you will get a page with this information

[shy cosmos]

i see

i clicked it

now what

[tender hazel]

it will look something like that when you scroll down

[shy cosmos]

👍

[tender hazel]

what are you seeing under protocol and network band?

[shy cosmos]

Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac)

5 GHz