virtual-reality

[haughty thistle]

The tl;dr is: for wider FOVs in VR there are challenges that make it not financially viable to design such a headset for mass production right now (unless you're Pimax and you just don't care about these issues in your product)

[lusty dagger]

If the price would lower acordingly yea. But the Index is 5yrs old and still a 600 Euro Headset.

And yea it is still the best Headset you can get.

At least for consumer...

[weak bluff]

Ok put Tundra Labs refurbished Index on watchlist

https://tundra-labs.com/products/valve-index

Set on notify me

Or if you can find gamestop they sell full kit for $600

If you still need to save more get hbase station 1.0

[lusty dagger]

I have a index...

Id just like to Upgrade tbh - but i simply cant because there is currently nothing better xD

[weak bluff]

ok then be happy for the next 5 years

complaining changes nothing

[versed tangle]

Agreed

[weak bluff]

https://www.uploadvr.com/metas-cto-boz-for-pc-vr-rift-against-standalone-vr/

In an alternative universe

Oculus store is a SteamVR competitor

The CV1 sensors gets more supported headsets and controllers

HTC becomes more competent in response

Valve giveaway more support for lighthouse ecosystem to sell hardware and hence more Steam sales

Oculus might allow 3rd party headsets and switch to profit from software sales

Microsoft try to push for microsoft store exclusive and Windows control to kill market but fail

[weak bluff]

Anyone wants a challenge https://hackaday.com/2023/07/10/behold-a-diy-vr-headset-its-creator-will-never-build-again/

[steady matrix]

I've been looking at vr headsets mostly pcvr, plus its prime day sale. Looked at quest 2 and pico 4 for now, similar price 350e and 380e. Anyone got any advice regarding these or something else with similar price?

[weak bluff]

Quest 2 is good value for having most content standalone and flexible use but less comfortable. Pico 4 is worse content options for standalone but better comfort a bit. Both have many issues in common but Quest 2 overall beats value and Pico 4 is better if you mostly care about PCVR but even then there are some better alternatives that does not carry both headset issues.

Both have privacy red flag. Both have downgraded image quality compression issue with PCVR. Both have low FOV issue. Quest 2 have great price in used market and it has proven well supported software and is also better in PCVR without paid options.

[grizzled field]

What if you want to take it places? Or not be tethered to a PC? All-in-ones are an incredible idea, and with a good SteamVR one you wouldn't need a PC, I think you're kinda out of line just assuming that ppl who would pay that want to be tethered to a PC

[little plinth]

yeahhh my Pico 4 does much better in PCVR than my friend's Q2
and many people who own both usually agree

it's the best PCVR option out there at sub 400

the G2 is not something that's often available for many

[weak bluff]

Placebo effect

[little plinth]

but of course if that's available the G2 would be a more solid PCVR option but in reality it's usually unobtanium

[little plinth]

how is it placebo

it got higher resolution and pancake lenses

even through the lense video (yes they don't represent real experience but still) shows big improvement

there isn't many alternative for PCVR at this price range and it really is the best one since G2 is unobtanium in many places

the Q3 is coming soon but it's like 200 bucks more

[weak bluff]

Higher resolution does not make it better if the SoC is near the same

And the Pico software is worse

[little plinth]

don't really matter, it's PCVR

and virtual desktop exists there

i do agree streaming assistant is horrid

[weak bluff]

And I explicitly mentioned "without paid options"

[little plinth]

link requires a dedicated link cable no?

which is not free

airlink will require a beefy router which many don't have

[weak bluff]

Yes

[little plinth]

as horrid as SA is, it at leasts works with any 3.0 cable

yeah pico has shortcomings but at this price you gotta make compromises to get the best fidelity in PCVR possible

[weak bluff]

Pico 4 is not vastly better than Quest 2 its just not possible

[little plinth]

Q2 lense and display is way more of a bottleneck than compression

[weak bluff]

Wdym by that

[little plinth]

in visual fidelity

[weak bluff]

What???

[little plinth]

in PCVR visual quality

the Q2's lower resolution and fresnel lense is a bigger "bottleneck" than compression

HEVC 10bit at high bitrate can do pretty well

despite both suffering from compression the pico is that much better in visuals

[weak bluff]

Both are bottlenecked not just Quest is. Neither is even close to native and both do not have far distance because they have similar hardware.

[grizzled field]

from what I've heard the Pico 4 has a lot of distortion in its lenses

[little plinth]

depends on your unit

QC issue

i got lucky with mine i guess

[weak bluff]

You have no idea what you are taking about

[grizzled field]

thats sounds like bad quality control

[little plinth]

which i mentioned

[grizzled field]

I agree

[little plinth]

eh whatever, compression is not that bad, there isn't much option at this price
you just sound like a gatekeeper

[grizzled field]

this sounds like some serious bias going on here, just because of what you're able to get

[little plinth]

the G2 is the only native headset at "close" to pico and q2 price but then you have to score deals and straight up not available in many places

[grizzled field]

because the Pico 4 is the only one you can get its "obviously the best"

[weak bluff]

Both Quest 2 and Pico 4 are very underpowered to get good image quality and even at best software optimization possible they are both limited by their hardware

[little plinth]

i mean i can get the Q2 also

so it's not "only one i can get"

i have tried both headsets

[grizzled field]

sounds like you're trying to get rid of buyers remorse cuz you got a terrible headset

[little plinth]

i'm not even regretting

you're making no sense

i can always sell my headset for a Q2 if it's bad

or return it

[grizzled field]

denial ain't only a river in egypt

[little plinth]

but i didn't return it

fine then, if you like to assume what others feel

[rancid kestrel]

Does anyone have any tips for making Vive tracking better? I'm getting tired of my controllers flying across the universe.

[grizzled field]

fine then if you like to live in denial

[little plinth]

if you wanna play the assume game

then you're just mad a chinese product is actually better

or, mad because someone can get a decent experience without spending 1000 bucks on native headset

[rancid kestrel]

I'm planning on getting an Index, eventually.

[harsh niche]

to be fair @grizzled field don’t you not even have a headset yet

[grizzled field]

I'm not mad, now you're playing the assuming game, and you can, the Rift cv1 is still good, the Q2 is good, the G2 is good

[little plinth]

"denial ain't only a river in egypt"

let's see how you like your own meds

[grizzled field]

you have no idea what you're talking about, you're just turning my words around back at me, you have to know you're wrong, and are just trying to defend your ego

[little plinth]

no

you saying that because i like a product just to alleviate buyer's remorse is flawed. It assumes my motives without any evidence. disregarded my evaluation on the thing, disregards my genuine belief in its value, transparency, and alternative perspectives, and lacks any supporting evidence.

so

i just return that flawed argument

on you

[grizzled field]

I may not own one yet, but I've put in 10+ hours on my brother-in-laws

[little plinth]

The pico is better thatn Q2 in PCVR, if i am wrong

please

provide evidence

testimonials, videos, anything

[grizzled field]

no, I'm saying you're biased and don't know what your talking about

[little plinth]

i have tried both headset

and many people also

my argument isn't solely based on my experience

you can go to any forums, comment sections, etc, to find testimonials

watch through the lense vids to see the quality indirectly

or heck

actually try both headsets

[grizzled field]

everyone I've talked to, and videos I've watched have said the Pico 4 is terrible, and didn't @haughty thistle say that as well?

[little plinth]

okay then

please link me

[harsh niche]

if the pico has higher resolution why would it not be better at pcvr

assuming compression is handled the same

[little plinth]

and pancake lense

even if the video quality is the same from the PC

just having better display and lense alone would make a difference

regardless of processing differences

[grizzled field]

alr here https://www.reddit.com/r/PICO_VR/comments/yar26f/pico_4_defective_lenses_or_normal_distortion/ and here https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/y6pfkz/i_regret_getting_the_pico_4/

[little plinth]

i have already seen the r/virtualreality one with his point being comfort

comfort is subjective

[grizzled field]

I couldn't find the video I watched but it said it had terrible lense distortion around the edges

and generally low quality lenses

[little plinth]

and on your r/pico_vr one

many on the comments says otherwise

so one of your posts isn't even about PCVR experience
while the other simply just confirms what we both already agree

i never denied pico having QC issue

[grizzled field]

it also has terrible software

and I know you'll say not for PCVR

but standalone is far better

[little plinth]

yeah since the point is PCVR

i never made any points about standalone being better

it's not

it lacks contents

and runs worse than Q2 due to the higher resolution with the XR2 chip

[grizzled field]

not on the pico, but on the Q2

standalone is the future

[little plinth]

nah i rather keep my high fidelity PCVR

as much as tech improves PC is always faster than standalone

also i'm not getting it

are you saying Q2 is worse or better in standalone

[grizzled field]

I'm saying the Q2 is better than the pico because it has good standalone

and standalone is better than being stuck to a PC

[little plinth]

well yes it's better for standalone

but not everyone cares about it

my point was strictly for PCVR

never denied Q2 is better for standalone

my whole argument has been about PCVR

the value goes back to what the user wants

have better standalone and worse PCVR
or better PCVR but worse standalone

[grizzled field]

the Q2 is $30 cheaper than Pico 4

[little plinth]

depends

pico on my place is decently cheaper

due to the $400 hike and many resellers refusing to sell at a loss

might be different for some people

but again get what fits your need the most

my argument was what's superior in PCVR

and the pico 4 is better in PCVR

not about standalone, not about price/perf

[grizzled field]

I dont know about that, but the G2 is absolutely superior than Pico 4

[little plinth]

which i mentioned previously

it is better than pico 4

but G2 is unobtanium in many places

like that one australian guy here few days ago

in this channel

[grizzled field]

theres always a way to get it,

[little plinth]

which will end up making it more pricy than pico 4 in a decent amount

[grizzled field]

^

what happend to not about price/perf?

[little plinth]

it's just extra points

i literally said G2 is better in PCVR

what do you want

you're just looking to argue at this point even when i'm agreeing

[grizzled field]

yes, I enjoy creating drama 😈

I have no idea what the Pico 4 is like, I've just heard its not great

[little plinth]

it is anecdotal, but my personal experience has been that pico 4 is vastly superior in PCVR

but yeah if G2 is available

get that

but for me, G2 is unobtanium

[grizzled field]

yeah but PCVR isn't really what matters, if you want a good PCVR experience get a Rift, G2, or something, standalone is what matters

[little plinth]

Rift is older, only available used, and idk about visuals but it's old

G2 is unobtanium in many places

and as i mention above

if you can get G2

get G2

[grizzled field]

Old doesn't mean bad

thats like saying your grandpa is a horrible person

cuz he's old

[little plinth]

the rift's 1280x800 res gonna struggle

compression would be less of an issue than that low resolution

[grizzled field]

I've had a great experience regardless

and Rift S has higher res

[little plinth]

but eh used rift pricing are not in the same range as pico and G2
they're more comparable to GearVR pricing

a good compromise for the price

[grizzled field]

and the tracking on the cv1 is awesome

no weird glitching like Rift S

[little plinth]

rift s seems awesome

but also an unobtanium for me sadly

Q3 is the only upgrade path

if i wanna look into standalone also

[grizzled field]

Rift S is great... until you start getting dead pixels

[little plinth]

typical oled issue

[grizzled field]

I've heard a lot of ppl having that issue, and my brother did too

just out of curiosity does anyone here think that there will ever be an XboxVR? I think that would be AWESOME, being able to use Gamepass for VR games. But I do wonder if they won't because of the flop that WMR was, even still, at least having VR compatibility with the Windows Xbox app would be great

[little plinth]

if you mean something like PSVR2 but xbox, they recently said no due to "lack of audience"

[grizzled field]

hmm, so not that but like a SteamVR type thing for the Xbox Windows app so you could use PC Gamepass with it

or stream games in VR with Gamepass Ultimate

[little plinth]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=687564452 perhaps this?

more like a workaround

[grizzled field]

but might work, I'll check it out

[little plinth]

gamepass is nice when i got the trial

decided to not pay for it cause xbox app is shit

was playing just cause 4 but i can't even mod it

i had to pirate a game i can play legitimately already just so i can mod

and lack of steamvr compatibility of course

[grizzled field]

yeah it is, its laggier than steam, and steam is a glorified web browser 💀

[little plinth]

and i prefer actually owning the game

[grizzled field]

yeah I understand that, but the shear amount of games you can play for just $11 a month, for VR that would be a game changer, you could try a game to see if you like it, and if you do you can buy it

[little plinth]

the amount of option often becomes a drawback personally
suffering from success literally

paralyzed by options

and also, my slow 40mbit internet makes it pain to constantly redownload new games

[grizzled field]

ahh, I feel for you for those last to things, choosing is painful and so is the internet speed

[little plinth]

here we are feeling slow on an internet 1000 times faster than dialup

times has changed

[grizzled field]

yeah but games were a 1000 times smaller during the age of dialup

[little plinth]

i think they're more like 10000

considering games we're in the kilobytes

and now they're in hundreds of gigabytes

[grizzled field]

50KB games not 50GB games

[grizzled field]

yeah I wanted to play MS Flight sim, then I saw the amount of storage it takes, oof

speaking of which, its on sale on steam, $40 instead of 60, should I do it?

[little plinth]

i've been wanting to get it but no

already got DCS and um

[harsh niche]

rift s was trash

[grizzled field]

(insert OG Minecraft death noise here)

[harsh niche]

I had one for a couple months then sold it because of how blurry and pixely it was

started hurting my eyes

[grizzled field]

you kidding? I remember the Rift S being incredible

[harsh niche]

nah

the resolution is mid

and the digital ipd adjustment was a bad idea

[grizzled field]

yeah, thats not great

[harsh niche]

the q2 is a lot better but still after an hour or two starts hurting my eyes

[grizzled field]

but apart from the occasionally tracking glitch I rlly enjoyed it

[grizzled field]

sensitive eyes

[harsh niche]

😔

[grizzled field]

I hope you didn't take offense at that, I wasn't trying to be mean, unless you didn't eat your carrots as a kid, it can't be helped

[grizzled field]

aren't you supposed to takes breaks every 30 mins?

[little plinth]

me playing 2 hours straight

break every 30 min would be

immersion breaking

[grizzled field]

yeah, it would, is that a bad thing though? Maybe it would keep me from almost falling over cuz I tried to lean on a non-existent rail in Half Life: Alyx

[little plinth]

my safeguard is me being broke and remembering i can't afford to replace them controllers if i break them

[grizzled field]

"immersion breaking" XD

[little plinth]

indeed it is

my 5600 is arriving today

i can finally play dcs flight sim in vr without

wanting to vomit

i get like 17FPS due to CPU bottleneck

[grizzled field]

AMD rx 5600?

[little plinth]

ryzen

i got 3060 for GPU

[grizzled field]

oh ok lol

[grizzled field]

yuck team red all the way

[little plinth]

fanboyism is dumb on both sides

[grizzled field]

I'm not a fanboy, for CPU I currently use Intel and I have nothing against intel, I just think AMD is better, especially on gpu pricing

[little plinth]

lacks CUDA/Tensor which i use for AI

only reason i use nvidia

my old 6600xt was faster for gamin

[grizzled field]

another score for team red!

[little plinth]

eh doesn't fit my use case

it's an L on my usecase

always depends on what you do

[grizzled field]

what I do is budget

lol

[harsh niche]

Nah lol it’s just annoying that I have to deal with it

that’s why I almost never use my quest 2

and I probably should take more breaks but like they said it’s immersion breaking

like finally getting into the game and then I gotta stop for a bit

[haughty thistle]

@grizzled field @little plinth @harsh niche
I saw your discussion about the Pico 4 earlier (unfortunatly was asleep till now). My personal testamonial is that the Reverb G2 is a much better PCVR experience. The Pico 4 lenses have a very wavy distortion and quite a bit of internal reflections (so much you actually see them in mid-bright scenes and not just dark ones like on the G2 and Quest Pro). The compression also makes the image rather soft. And this is with Virtual Desktop. With the official client the best resolution you can get out of the P4 is about the resolution of the Index, and that stretched to the P4 screen res makes it super blurry. The speakers sound tinny with virtually no bass, there's no headphone jack, adapters add about 200ms of latency and the strap design doesn't allow for anything but in-ears anyways...
Also, the G2 has a larger FOV and it's only two faults are a f#ed up CA profile in the outer FOV (blue is way off) and it's controllers, the latter only really mattering in VRChat and the likes. Seriously, I've played parts of HLA on the G2 controllers and had basically no issues with them. Why do people still think they're garbo?#

Btw. for the CA profile on the G2, there are settings in the Windows Registry that you can change to fix it. There are even tools out there to streamline the process lol

[rancid kestrel]

Heck even the Index controllers aren't perfect in Alyx.

[weak bluff]

when you try to stream the job of what DisplayPort do at 32Gbps to a measily 200Mbps (best case) in a Wi-Fi and get latency from encode and decode

[haughty thistle]

VD back then capped out at 150mbps. It now does up to 400 on h264, but I found it to not really be beneficial in any way over just using h265 (h264 has worse compression artifacts and at a higher bitrate the latency benefit gets lost)

[weak bluff]

I cannot hit 150Mbps in Air Link auto idk why and if its because of AMD card

[lusty dagger]

They arent perfect alltogether - the best cons right now but yea...

Battery life is very close to too short, the Controllers roll, the Finger tracking only works when pretty close to the Sensors, the Fingers arent aligned perfectly always (though the con seems to calibrate itself there)

The trackpad is also a thing - i exklusively use it for vrc for thumb presence lol - otherwise cannot find much use tbh

[rancid kestrel]

I've had issues with the finger tracing, that's about it outside of my general tracking issues.

The battery life on them is more than good enough.

[haughty thistle]

Index controllers have 8 hours of battery life. It's only an issue if you want to sleep in VR or do like a 24hour stream (which realistically, you shouldn't do anyways for health reasons)

The finger tracking can be a bit jank at times when your fingers sit so off that it cannot calibrate, but that's rare. It works (at least for the grip area) about half way between finger fully extended and touching the area. The touchpad I agree is a bit redundant, I use it's force press to replace stick presses as that'll cause your sticks retention mechanism to break and thus introduce drifting...

The only downside I see with Index cons is that they aren't as comfortable to hold as the Rift CV1 Touch, but then again you don't have to hold them... also they kinda suck for Beat Saber. Vive Wands all the way for that!

[rancid kestrel]

I need to figure out my tracking issues.

I've lost a good amount of full combos from it and I nearly died in Alyx after two of my clips disappeared from the tracking going bad.

I'm definitely getting v2 wands when I get an Index.

[little plinth]

I did say that the G2 is better, so many times in fact

But G2 being unobtainable for many is the issue

Making pico the only sensible $300 option

[rancid kestrel]

It's also not like most if not all of the headsets are made in China anyway. :^)

[lusty dagger]

For one Session, i didnt had any issues, yet.

If i forget charging them once - im doomed... Charging while playing is annoying lol

I was very often one Session from 100% down to 10 though. 8hrs sounds like a lot, but considering youd need to charge which takes ages - its yea close.

[lusty dagger]

Did you really say vive wands for beatsaber? What the actual f.

xD

For beatsaber the Indexes are basically ideal, Light enough, very Solid tracking etc.

Vive wands are heavy af, at a very off Center of gravity etc, couldnt even play close to anything id do normally, even below my comfort Level... Visited a vive User friend, dropped from 8 Stars down to 5. You just cannot swing fast with the wands.

[warm stirrup]

I've seen a beat saber arcade thingy that had the wands had a cable running down from them (idk where to) that would be fucking awful for bs

[pale orbit]

https://twitter.com/iVRy_VR/status/1679071049898393601

iVRy (@iVRy_VR)

Day #135: SteamVR driver for PSVR2 now does 6DOF tracking, using headset's cameras. We knew PSVR2 was doing all tracking on headset, now we have access to that.

Likes

225

Twitter · Jul 12, 2023, 10:11 AM

[haughty thistle]

I dunno. I find it kinda uncomfortable for my wrists to play Beat Saber with Index controllers. I would agree on the other points, but I don't see Beat Saber as something to be good at, instead I see it as a workout where heavier controllers are beneficial 😄

[weak bluff]

Maybe Etee is better for beat saber

[lusty dagger]

That - or just playing waaaaay faster and or actively vibing to Songs - doing jumpstyle in Beatsaber is Hardcore af but also extremely fun.

[eternal sierra]

Ahhhhh, my laptop is burning up

[rancid kestrel]

I'm a heck of a lot more accurate with the wands.

[rancid kestrel]

Maybe I'm doing something wrong with the Index controllers?

[lusty dagger]

Need adjustments. Stock config is Bad yea.

Funfact - its basically only that.

The adjustments i have are simelar to what most clawgrip oculus users have (in terms of saber angle relative to the Hand)

[little plinth]

would you rather enable FSR or turn down game settings

[haughty thistle]

I tried adjusting the grip config on the Index controllers but it only makes playing on Index feel super weird. It can alleviate some of the wrist pain, but it doesn't really feel "right" if you know what I mean...

[little plinth]

i was playing project wingman and my 3060 really struggles on it

[lusty dagger]

Neither - and if forced lower settings...

[rancid kestrel]

Turn down game settings.

[little plinth]

well if you can do neither no shit

[lusty dagger]

I dont like fsr/dlss and especially hate fragegen (dlss 3.0 Feature).

[little plinth]

but sometimes turning down game settings can make the game look uglier than just having upscaling artifact

[rancid kestrel]

Nvidia cheating with software so they don't have to make a better product does sound about right.

[lusty dagger]

I dont care tbh

[haughty thistle]

Honestly speaking? Game settings or render res. FSR and DLSS are a mess in VR. Mirage Kayak has both native and they both made the game look like hot garbo...

[little plinth]

FSR on OpenXR toolkit

[lusty dagger]

Yea wouldnt do it.

[rancid kestrel]

Plus their jank would add some latency, no way around that when you are doing post processing.

[haughty thistle]

For flat games if there is an option for DLSS I'd always turn that on, but in VR it's a big no-no

[rancid kestrel]

I always turn it off.

[lusty dagger]

I wouldnt

[rancid kestrel]

Though I only play one game that supports it so.

[little plinth]

DLSS Quality is literaly free FPS

[rancid kestrel]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lusty dagger]

No, its not.

[little plinth]

the quality is indistinguishable from native

unless you go lower to balanced

but DLSS Quality (or even better, ultra quality) is straight up free FPS

[lusty dagger]

Its only not if you dont care - or dont know what to Look for and in slower games.

For fast paced games, absolute nogo.

Ghostrunner f. E.

[little plinth]

you can only tell that shit literally by freezing the frame

[lusty dagger]

Looks absolute garbage

[haughty thistle]

If you know what to look for or the game has massive amounts of forced on motion blur (ex. Forza Horizon 5) you can tell a difference between DLSS Quality and off, but I'm enjoying the game, not looking for pixel sized artifacts lol

[lusty dagger]

This

[little plinth]

so you play the game to hunt for pixel sized artifact not to enjoy it?

[lusty dagger]

With the catch that i notice it anyways and it annoys me

[haughty thistle]

DLSS Frame gen on the other hand, yeah, that is hot garbo. It's like what TVs had for years (often called "sports mode"), but on your GPU 🤮

[rancid kestrel]

I get 60FPS on Portal RTX with DLSS off.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lusty dagger]

No, i just notice it, or f. E. Motion blur type stuff and it just annoys me a Ton.

[haughty thistle]

Motion blur does mess with DLSS, yes. But I usually turn that garbage off...

[lusty dagger]

Fsr/dlss on pretty high Resolutions are fine-er-er.

Still dont like it.

[haughty thistle]

I play at 1440p Ultra-Wide 🙃

[lusty dagger]

On FHD, 1440p or f. E. Vr, i just cannot use it.

[rancid kestrel]

This computer has 3x 1920x1080 monitors with a 4090 and the gaming one has a Vive with a 3060.

[lusty dagger]

Well with my current Main 6800 i cant anyways, but i also dont need to.

Framegen is just Interpolation, and you notice it. Higher fps, yes, but higher latency and it feels worse that way, the artefacts add up to that... So its just Garage all around.

Fsr/dlss etc - just the upscale stuff - either you notice it or you dont, if you dont, be happy.

If you do, congratulations you are like me.

[little plinth]

though i can probably just lower the render resolution and let snapdragon upscaler do the work
since the snapdragon upscaler is post-processing on the headset itself and not on the game it actually looks better

compared to using OXR toolkit FSR

[lusty dagger]

You are on link?

[little plinth]

pico 4

with vd

[lusty dagger]

Lol

If you dont notice the vd artefacts you sure as heck also wont mind fsr and stuff...

[little plinth]

i can definitely notice VD compression

pico 4's very clear lense makes it super easy to spot

but on flat screen, can't tell jackshit on DLSS quality

[lusty dagger]

This alone was a dealbreaker for the q2, id always like to have a secondary lighter Headset, but i just simply cannot live with that pic it gives other oculus link, airlink and even vd (vd to that time was the least crappy).

[little plinth]

VD recently added HEVC 10 bit which should improve quality even more

[lusty dagger]

Still redicioulusly low Bitrate - cause duh. Wifi.

[little plinth]

and also H264+ which allows up to 400Mbps bitrate

i use ethernet so ye

[lusty dagger]

Yea, Display links are multiple Gbit xD

[little plinth]

ethernet on both headset and pc

[lusty dagger]

(many even...)

[little plinth]

still 150Mbps on HEVC 10 bit is probably way better than the last time you tried VD

personally don't use it though cause heavy to encode on my 3060

[lusty dagger]

I can still gurantee that id hate it in vr.

The latency alone.

[little plinth]

i got like 35ms on ethernet

[lusty dagger]

Yea. A heck ton

Normally most games i play have like 2-3ms frametimes and whatever steamvr itself has (tracking wise and stuff - which to i think is below 15ms...)

I never looked it up neither Plan on - i can live with it right now and im happy xD

Controllers arent that low latency though... Its just the way they work.

[little plinth]

the standalone is helpful when interacting with desktop cause VD

steamVR desktop interaction is awful

and when i wanna use it without the PC

though perhaps pico will make a pico 4 link hopefully

[lusty dagger]

Yea - hope so too.

Or any standalone maker just implementing something like dp over type c...

Theoredically possible..

[little plinth]

but for now VD compression is a compromise i can make to save plenty of dollars compared to native headsets

and the ability to use standalone

[lusty dagger]

Ye

[little plinth]

the G2 is the only alternative but availability is scarce

i was originally going to get that one

[lusty dagger]

And Windows MR tracking is - adventerous.

This thing with steamvr tracking would be cool as heck...

Cause it fixes one of the big issue i have with my Index

The screens...

[little plinth]

Quest 3 seems interesting

but it would be a sidegrade from my pico 4

and i already got some software on pico

[lusty dagger]

Yes and no - im sure it will still wont have any type of actual good linking to PC...

[little plinth]

i am waiting for the next best one

[lusty dagger]

Cause duh - they invested a lot.

[rancid kestrel]

I have a wireless Vive and it's super nice.

Beat Saber telling me to hang the cable from the ceiling, how silly.

[lusty dagger]

that thing is actually cool - but im not sooo into hmd battery life xd

[rancid kestrel]

It lasts longer than the controllers and you can swap the battery, it's just USB.

[lusty dagger]

beatsaber is telling you to use either ceiling cable or a wireless solution

for 360° maps only though...

[rancid kestrel]

It's sad how few of those there are.

[rancid kestrel]

Can you tell Steam to not update BS?

[rancid kestrel]

I'm also wondering if there's any decent racing sim stuff that's somewhat sturdy and folds away nicely.

[deep yew]

there is!

how deep in the sim rabbit hole are you?

gear wise, asking mostly so I know how sturdy sturdy needs to be

[rancid kestrel]

Not yet, but it's on the list of things I want to get into.

[deep yew]

cool, so there's a variety of wheel stands that do exactly what you want

[rancid kestrel]

I know the stuff is expensive, I just don't want it to break.

[deep yew]

I have the Next Level Racing Wheel Stand 2.0 and that thing is an absolute unit

[rancid kestrel]

It's also going to be a little while...

[deep yew]

but not the most compact when folded with everything bolted to it

if you're just dipping your toes in and aren't sure you wanna go whole hog it may be a bit much

but there's lighter simpler options if you don't plan on strapping like a Moza R12 wheel base to them any time soon

there's also desk clamp options that can work ok depending on your desk

before I got my stand I'd just ratchet strap my chair to my desk legs to keep it from moving while racing

[rancid kestrel]

It's nice to know there are options for this stuff, which means there's enough of a market for it.

[deep yew]

Oh yeah sim racing is very well supported

lotsa sick toys to peruse

[rancid kestrel]

I have a VR setup that I'd like to use.

[deep yew]

coming from flight simming I was pretty god damn jealous of the race scene lol

[rancid kestrel]

Looking at all the different wheels companies have is a little over whelming.

[deep yew]

new products and what not abound with racing and plenty of cool games to try, it's a fun genre cause there's racing but also lots of just pure dicking around games like BeamNG and Assetto Corsa (with mods)

I'm a MOZA stan for entry level gear so that's my recommendation. I have their r9 base with a couple wheels and it's great.

[rancid kestrel]

I'm 100% buying a real car first. :V

[deep yew]

yeah that's prolly a better investment first haha

feel free to ping me here when you start dipping in to all this tho, I rabbit holed pretty hard since last Black Friday so I've only just recently ripped through all the questions a new racer would have and it's all fresh in my head

[rancid kestrel]

My main issues are just the "minimal space when not in use" and "what do I need to care about with the wheels?"

[deep yew]

a collapsible wheel stand will solve that first problem handily and there's plenty of options there

the second question is mostly a matter of budget

and how sure you are you wanna go hard in the paint with all this

[rancid kestrel]

Even just this one company so many options.

[deep yew]

most of those are for aesthetic lulz, also I kinda don't recommend Fanatec unless you're hooking up to a console

[rancid kestrel]

The idea is to use something that is good enough to last a good while, even if I don't care for it much I could return it or sell it on eBay to recoup costs after all.

[deep yew]

Fanatec can be kinda dicks with their proprietary nonsense and making things into addons to get more money outta people. They were the only solid budget game in town for a while tho but other companies have caught them napping lately

[rancid kestrel]

It is the company I am aware of and it was just an example of how many options there are for something as simple looking as a wheel.

[deep yew]

Yeah they're the best known

MOZA came out swinging and that's my gear go to rn

https://mozaracing.com/

[rancid kestrel]

I think Jay did something with them recently? The name is familar at least.

[deep yew]

Also if you need some YT channel recommendations BoostedMedia does good gear reviews and Sim Racing Garage is fun cause he gives no fucks and will dismantle things to check internal quality

[rancid kestrel]

Sounds like BigCliveDotCom or EEVBlog. :-P

Wireless sounds spooky.

Do you have a reference point of what 1Nm or 10Nm is?

[deep yew]

a reference? Idk a good relatable point.

For a general explanation: the nm rating is how much force the base can deliver peak. The more nm the sharper and more detailed it can get with road effects and all that without clipping the signal. I'm pretty happy with my 9nm base and even for people with very high nm bases they dial that shit back to like 12 give or take because it turns into a not fun workout/becomes outright dangerous

[rancid kestrel]

I understand how that stuff works, I just don't have a reference point tied to actual numbers.

[deep yew]

there's some vids on YouTube that'll give you a good visual impression

[rancid kestrel]

I do have driving experience from borrowed cars at least.

Oh weird, looking at the R9 V1 and R9 V2 the pads on the shaft change.

[deep yew]

Like your average power steering road car isn't giving you much of anything

[rancid kestrel]

There was one time the road nearly took the wheel from me.

[deep yew]

there's places you can try this stuff out depending on where you live

I get comfortably controllable force feedback on my 9nm wheel with nothing turned down and will drive for hours

Idk how to convey the feeling in text

[rancid kestrel]

Yeah, it's not like I was planning on maxing that stuff out and spending stupid amounts of money on it.

[deep yew]

The v2 stuff is due to the R5 base having some new tech and extra pin pads as a result.

that and the R9 v2 and the new R12

[deep yew]

you say that now....

lol

[rancid kestrel]

Not planning on it and never doing it are two very different things.

That is an outright lie.

[deep yew]

I got a Thrustmaster T248 on sale last Black Friday for a couple hundred and that snowballed real damn fast lol.

Great starting point wheel btw

not direct drive or upgradable but a fun and cheap starting point if you can catch it on deep sale

[rancid kestrel]

Huh, the difference between the ES and CS wheels is less than the difference between the R1 and R2 and the ES only works on the R2?

[deep yew]

R1 and R2?

[rancid kestrel]

R9.

[deep yew]

Oh yeah

The R9 v1 doesn't have the pinouts for their newer stuff

[rancid kestrel]

It's just odd that the wheel makes up for the price difference.

[deep yew]

yeah, idk why they still have V1s for sale tbh

[rancid kestrel]

They probably still have them.

[deep yew]

oh as far as wheels go whoever you do go with for a base I recommend just a basic round wheel with shifter paddles so you don't need to worry about a separate shifter

that'll serve you through any driving you wanna try

[rancid kestrel]

So hypathetically something like this.

Not that I am buying this stuff right now.

[deep yew]

if you really wanna do basics only they have an R5 bundle with the base, wheel, and pedals for like 500

[rancid kestrel]

That's fair too, things are going to be different by the time I can get this stuff.

[deep yew]

yeah, fun to think about tho

[rancid kestrel]

539 w/ clutch.

[deep yew]

Definitely take your time to peruse options tho and hit up channels like BoostedMedia and sim race garage cause they explain stuff super well

[rancid kestrel]

Oh yeah I will do more due diligence when the time comes.

[deep yew]

also idk if you watched Linus's "we unbox a lot of random shit" video but they pull out an R9

gives a good sense of size

and they desk clamp it nbd

[rancid kestrel]

The only thing I could really desk clamp it to isn't very heavy, but it's a way to start out I suppose.

Get the furnature for it later.

[deep yew]

yah, best to see if you get the real fake cars bug first

[little plinth]

and i thought flight sim is expensive

[rancid kestrel]

This isn't exactly "entry level."

It's also not as crazy as you can go either.

[deep yew]

Yeah I started with an on sale Thrustmaster T248 for like $250

[rancid kestrel]

Imagine buying a car for sim racing.

[deep yew]

and that's wheel/base/pedals all ready to go

but also not direct drive or load cell or anything

[deep yew]

Yeah Boosted Media's is like a 100k worth of gear lol

[rancid kestrel]

It would be wild to buy a totaled car that has the cabin not screwed up too bad to stick on a platform.

[little plinth]

yeahhh the "entry level" for car sim is like a solid mid tier flight setup

the bottom of the barrel for flight stick is like 30 bucks

so it is expensive relative to flight sim

[little plinth]

https://twitter.com/Roblox/status/1679159892261900288?t=0nh0EasWY9_WBF97dKQT8A&s=19

Roblox (@Roblox)

Roblox is coming to @MetaQuestVR. Open Beta for developers coming soon on App Lab. More info in the link below https://t.co/jaf5hdOsEr

Likes

3740

Retweets

570

Twitter · Jul 12, 2023, 4:04 PM

come on when to pico

the drawback of buying a PCVR focused headset

[deep yew]

oh yeah I came from flight simming to race simming. Still have my VIRPIL stuff tho for when the MSFS urge kicks in

race simming toys are so much cooler tho

[little plinth]

too broke for the amount of investment needed

[deep yew]

and after flying an entire real ass plane its kinda hard to go back to flight simming

[little plinth]

i already invested over $1k for the PC and VR for a smooth flight sim experience
wallet empty for yet another 500 on racing shit

i think like $1.3k roughly

only 800 spent on my 5600 + 3060 PC

got good deals

[warm stirrup]

Not me who literally spent 600 usd on a 3070 ti

[burnt oasis]

6950xt like 40% faster and double the vram lol

and cheaper

[warm stirrup]

Yeah I got the 3070 ti in November last year, literally a couple months before the 4070 ti released, dropping the price of that card lmao

[little plinth]

i got my 3060 on december for $240 kek

a good deal even now

[haughty thistle]

Not that I'm aware of. What I do is I make a copy of Beat Saber whenever a new version cones out and overwrite the new version files with my previous install. Reason I copy the old version back into the installation folder is because it will restart from there if you launch BS from anywhere else...

[rancid kestrel]

Why not SteamVR?

[weak bluff]

It's entirely different platform

Also there is a reason why you don't see kids in PCVR

[little plinth]

because i can't bring my steamvr PC anywhere i go

[rancid kestrel]

Because kids shouldn't be using VR in general because it can destroy their vision? :V

[haughty thistle]

There's a reason why it's usually recommend to use no VR before the age of 16...

[weak bluff]

Meta lowered requirement to 10 years old yaaaay /s

[haughty thistle]

Maybe not outright destryoing Vision, but certainly encouraging the development of malformed eyes and short sightedness.
China is the perfect example for why kids and teenagers should spend lots of time outside and not inside. They have one of the highest number of shortsightedness in people under the age of 25...

[weak bluff]

i think there is a lot of cause and problem than just that

[haughty thistle]

Spending lots of time indoors during childhood is scientifically linked to shortsightedness. This is because your eyes can't train their focal muscles with how little focal distances very indoors. VR with it's fixed focal distance only will amplify that effect...
Ofc there are other reasons for shortsightedness, like genetics, but not training your focal muscles during childhood is one that could easily be avoided...

[lusty dagger]

No, but you can Backup your bs folder and just overwrite steams bs folder with it, it just forces downloading Updates, but doesnt actively check game Version.

[lusty dagger]

To be fair that goes for any screen close to your eyes. Vr emulates something around 30cm i think away in terms of Focus. (can Check easily because its very hard to f. E. See your Hand when directly in front of your head you cannot Focus easily because the fixed Focus of the hmd is way further.

Using a phone, tablet, Switch, PC etc is just as Bad tbh for your eyes.

Vr just adds the issue of being heavily blue light, warm/hot, no Real air circulation to your face, pressure points etc - many things about vr is Bad for your health xD

But same goes for f. E. A Headset, using it daily for many hours, its also giving you a dent in the head, also after like you are 16. Had it myself, gone away by itself luckily...

[haughty thistle]

The difference is that on a normal screen you can look away occasionally to refocus your eyes for a bit, in VR you'll be looking at a 1.5m focal point for the entire time...

(also a proper desk setup will put you 50-80cm away from the screen)

[lusty dagger]

Is it 1.5m daym.

That would explain.

[little plinth]

1.5m is decently far

though just limit playtime and you'll be fine

[haughty thistle]

The problem is not about the focal distance, it's about how varied your eyes focus during childhood and early teens...

[little plinth]

no kids playing vr 6 hours a day

[lusty dagger]

There def are...

You ever heared about the slightly known quest 2 and vrc/recroom?

[little plinth]

the quest dont even last that long

and most kids prob run stock without battery bank

[lusty dagger]

Cable.

Even if its 2x 3hrs or whatever...

[little plinth]

more like 2 hours per charge

then 1.5 to refill

[tawdry dove]

I know one

[lusty dagger]

Or charging constantly...

[grizzled field]

I love the cv1 controllers, they should have pulled an Xbox, and just kept the controllers the same for all their headsets

[lean dagger]

IKR

[lusty dagger]

Xbox didnt really though...

The key Layout is the same - but that also goes for the oculus ones

[grizzled field]

uhm what are your Xbox controllers like? Becuase they've hardly changed

sure there have been little generational changes, but nothing like the difference between a Rift cv1 controller and Quest pro, and NOTHING like what nintendo has done, NES vs SNES, Gamecube vs Wii, Wii vs switch, or even like PS controllers have changed more than xbox

[lusty dagger]

Og xbox Was a hefty change to 360, from there on the technological aspect Was basically the same.

Just the haptics were changed - mostly a lot even

Elite Controller being an expensive exception.

[little plinth]

#virtual-reality message

[grizzled field]

ok one controller, I'm talking the exterior design, because thats where it matters, we weren't talking about the haptics we were talking about the comfort of the cv1 controllers, overall Xbox controllers have hardly changed, especially when compared to others,

they changed ONE controller, and you feel the need to say I'm wrong? I was just using it as an example too

[rustic garnet]

Most of the differences in oculus' controllers are due to different tracking technologies though

[grizzled field]

yeah thats true, I just wish they had kept it as comfortable :/

I wonder if the Deckard will have the Index controllers or something else?

[lusty dagger]

The feel and stuff is entirely different - if you say the Controllers didnt change, i could say oculus cons also didnt change at all between CV1 and Touch (quest pro is again different...)

[lusty dagger]

If they are Actually going standalone, they will have other controllers

[burnt oasis]

meh you can get a 6650xt for les then taht and its 10% faster

[little plinth]

1. It's december 2022
2. I did own a 6600xt before this 3060 but it absolutely sucked at AI and productivity workload

[lusty dagger]

Basically anything productive works better (or in general even) with cuda - which is nvidia - so yea no Real options there.

Gaming though, amd is basically a no brainer.

[zinc timber]

Doesn't AMD basically cap out at 6950xt for VR though

[lusty dagger]

Wdym?

[zinc timber]

Rdna3 had massive issues in vr

Dunno if they've been fixed yet

[lusty dagger]

I will see

Once an gpu id actually buy gets released.

7800 f. E.

[burnt oasis]

so a 7700xt

[lusty dagger]

Maybe.

Will see.

Most likely something like a 7800 f. E. - or a xt idk.

[burnt oasis]

it's gonna be slower than a 6950xt

[lusty dagger]

But not something like a 7600 xt lol

[burnt oasis]

but cost as much as a 6950xt cuz it's more power efficient

and cuz newer

the 7900xt is the 7800xt

[lusty dagger]

Im happy with my 6800.

Id just like av1 and a gpu which i can waterblock in my smol case - got a strix vers and didnt realize the pcb is wider - so comes further out of the mobo...

[little plinth]

I'll probably switch to 4070 next year

Or AMD if AI there isn't shit anymore

[pale orbit]

https://twitter.com/SadlyItsBradley/status/1679761329161138182

Brad Lynch (@SadlyItsBradley)

Meta Quest 3 now has a listing on Amazon Japan

https://t.co/AL2PiN8na5

Likes

150

Twitter · Jul 14, 2023, 7:54 AM

[rustic garnet]

still can't believe they ditched the tracking rings

[warm stirrup]

The tracking rings make good stands for the controller lol

[upper thistle]

major problem, my quest 2 keeps disconnecting other devices when its plugged into my pc through any usb cable, for some reason it specifically disconnects my wifi adapter

and i cannot think of a single reason as to why

my power supply is enough, my motherboard gets enough power, drivers are updated

[warm stirrup]

Maybe having to do with the USB controller

[rancid kestrel]

Is there a decent (mini)golf game?

[rancid kestrel]

What does the event viewer say?

[upper thistle]

absolutely nothing

that was the first thing i checked when it first happened

[rancid kestrel]

Weird. Does it happen under Linux too?

[harsh niche]

walkabout mini golf is goated

[rancid kestrel]

That looks exactly like what I wanted, wishlist with you.

[rustic garnet]

Also cloudlands

[lament sedge]

Meta quets 1 used for 150 euro good deal or should i save up for quest 2

[haughty thistle]

If you intend on using the standalone functionality at all, go for the Quest 2. Otherwise I don't see why you shouldn't go for the Quest 1

Support for the Quest 1 ends by the end of the year, with a lot of games already having opted to only support the Quest 2 already...

[lament sedge]

Ok thx

[harsh niche]

multiplayer is fun af too

try it out sometime

has built in voice chat

and you can go into big mode and mess with people

[broken void]

I wonder if Linus would be interested in trying Praydog's Universal Unreal Engine VR mod 🤔

[lusty dagger]

Yesterday i had a Hella weird issue.

I plugged my Index controllers to charge on my wall thing, about 36hrs later i came back to both having a constant Red led.

Tons of trouble Shooting, the batteries werent charged, but the thing Was lit up (like said Red and not blinking).

Charged them for like an hour with a external basic 2.4a Source, they are back working...

And that after i very often charged them without any issue over like the PC Power... Now it was a usb hub, yea but that also worked often enough - so its just pretty weird...

Have to watch that behaviour now... And if it happens again try to figure of why the f it does...

Shower thaught (funny because i was showring hahehihohu)

The things turn them self on when on PC smh, or didnt got turned off properly idk... (normally steamvr does that, but often when i started steamvr the Controllers were already on).

So what my idea is, valve implements a charging cutoff for any Devices i know (also f. E. The steamdeck after like 2 days), maybe the same things happened to the Controllers and thats the reason they were in the bugged stage... Aka stopped charging, kept being on and just ran out of battery.

If thats true, i may have found an pretty interesting issue about the Controllers... Like said i have to watch that...

[gloomy crater]

I've had a sort of similar issue in the past where I'll fully charge my controllers, as in both of them have all 4 green lights. And then the next time I go to use them, even tho they both have 4 green lights, one or both of them will start disconnecting as soon as heavy motion takes place. Then I'll plug the offending controller back in for an hour, and then it'll just start working again.

[eternal sierra]

my index controllers do the same, it's usualy my left one though

and it annoys the crap outa me when i play beat saber

[pale orbit]

https://twitter.com/iVRy_VR/status/1680416154890665984

iVRy (@iVRy_VR)

Day #139: PSVR2 tracking is 'done'. We now have full 6DOF headset tracking in SteamVR, with 2000Hz IMU and 60Hz SLAM, like PS5.

Likes

1144

Retweets

128

Twitter · Jul 16, 2023, 3:16 AM

[weak bluff]

Still if the driver is perfect the old fresnel design, weight and expensive adapter is a deal breaker for me.

Oh and on top of that iVRy license

[cedar belfry]

I have a bunch of VR models on Tinkercad now

[cedar belfry]

yes absolutely
i love it

[hallow cliff]

that is so awesome

[harsh niche]

what's a 2000hz imu?

[cedar belfry]

A rotation detection device that refreshes at that 2000hz frequency

[harsh niche]

oh cool

just like a fancy gyroscope or somn pretty much

/accelerometer

[haughty thistle]

An IMU is a combination of multiple measurement devices. A gyro for rotation, an accelerometer and often also a Magnetometer as well...

[lusty dagger]

Basically relative positioning.

Slam is absolute.

Think of it as - imu tracks the device, Slam makes sure it doesnt drift.

[haughty thistle]

A Magnetometer is also absolute, but only for rotation, and it needs calibration for each area...

[lusty dagger]

Yea just think of it as being relative

[haughty thistle]

Everything is relative xD

[lusty dagger]

Ye

Slam is positioning relative to what the System thinks are absolute positions

[haughty thistle]

Even SLAM, that is just relative to what the cameras see, lighthouse tracking is relative to the lighthouses, and a Magnetometer is relative to the Earth's magnetic field

[lusty dagger]

Aka Slam would work in a vehicle f. E.

Imu wouldnt. Both together also not.

[haughty thistle]

Every Tracking system heavily relies on IMU data. Without already knowing the rotation of the devices, Lighthouse tracking wouldn't work, IMU rotation and accelerometer data is used to generate the initial SLAM point cloud and is used even after to aid tracking.
Not to mention that all these "relative to environment" systems run at about 30-60 times a second, while an IMU can be read at 1000+Hz, so it's used to bridge these gaps in tracking data...

[lusty dagger]

Yes i know

[haughty thistle]

Somehow missed this lol
Yeah, basically. Whether SLAM, Lighthouse or whatever, these tracking systems are basically there to keep drift in check...

[lusty dagger]

Ye

Whats also a thing - id love for stuff like the vive trackers to Also work in imu only...

So i could use them covered up, imu does drift, but not that extreme...

[weak bluff]

SlimeVR is working on that

[lusty dagger]

To use the vive trackers?

Doubt.

To work in combination with them yes.

Which is not what im talking about

[weak bluff]

Yes i mean combination

Development stalled

But its in the list to do

Using vive tracker without lighthouse is a running joke in slimevr because some dump people did that in hope of using slime to get away with it

[lusty dagger]

Doesnt matter dont care.

Fact is, steamvr tracking would allow for imu only at least for the time the Stations dont see it, but they give up instantly and just fly away, sadly.

Because this would be cool af it that would work.

Cause like, there is no Option for fbt that works under a blanket f. E. Except imu only tracking.

[wise crescent]

Just placed an order to upgrade to a ryzen 7800x3d from an i7-9700k, curious to see if it can push some more frames in vr with my 3090

[tawdry dove]

if you're cpu bound then it'll bottleneck your 3090

unless it's vr chat

[wise crescent]

I don't think the 7800x3d is going to bottleneck my 3090, the 9700k might be

[tawdry dove]

did I say that in reverse?

it's too late for me to tell

7800x3d good

[wise crescent]

That's how I understood it at least but oh well lol

[lusty dagger]

If its vrchat you are basically running cpu only lol

[wise crescent]

Well vrchat is my most played game so I hope it makes a difference

[weak bluff]

oh absolutely you might experience doubling or more FPS

its the best CPU for VRChat possible to buy

[covert fern]

alright I want to get into vr
do I wait for the quest 3 or get a quest 2?

[gloomy crater]

If you're just getting into VR, Quest 2. The difference in features available on the Quest 3 doesn't warrant the price tag imo, and the Quest 2 just dropped in price and already has tons of aftermarket accessories and sideloaded games optimized for it, neither of which the Quest 3 will have for a while. And ofc since I'm required to say, if you've got a capable PC consider getting a Reverb G2 instead, and all that, but if you just want a standalone device, that isn't owned by a chinese company, yeah the Quest 2 is pretty much the way to go to keep things simple.

[covert fern]

sweet
I've also seen a ton of accessories for the quest 2, like the head strap and battery packs and all that

and the controller protection

[gloomy crater]

Yeah, tons of different head strap designs, battery banks, there are a few different controller covers that add the hand straps from the Index controllers which are pretty cool. For accessories I recommend KiwiVR

[covert fern]

my pc is alright, I'd probably end up doing alot of steam vr anyway though

[covert fern]

tyvm!

[gloomy crater]

And y'know, this channel will always be here for any questions

[lusty dagger]

For vrc get the best cpu you can get

For me mostly im at like 4-8ms frametime gpu and like 40ms for the cpu, a 5800x3d...

Aka, the cpu is limiting extremely...

Found out because graphicsettings basically hat 0 impact

Same with renderscale. I can run at 300% and be still cpu locked...

(funfact mirror Resolution unlimited boosts the Quality a heck lot, thaught full would be - ugh full, but its not)

[covert fern]

wonder if I should do pcvr

I have a 7800x3d but no gpu yet

[weak bluff]

its definitely a better experience

ah well you cant do anything with just that integrated GPU

[lusty dagger]

You def should.

Quest 2 fidelity is okaaaaayish - for everything not vrchat.

Vrchat on quest sucks

Flatout.

[weak bluff]

ah cmon if you can buy 7800X3D you can get better than Quest 2

[lusty dagger]

Ofc.

[covert fern]

true

what are you thinkin

[lusty dagger]

The cpu also costs like double of the whole hmd.

Maybe 1.5x

[covert fern]

420$

[lusty dagger]

[weak bluff]

if it is your first time maybe try some old but gold headsets before upgrading in short term

Rift CV1? As a try before you go better.

[covert fern]

tbh I should probably get an actual gpu but meh

[lusty dagger]

Rift CV1 and rift s are Solid f. E.

Quest 1, avoid.

Quest 2, okay enough - if you dont care about compression stuff... - which i do so i wont recommend.

Vive, too old too Bad sadly.

[covert fern]

yeah I'd get sick

[lusty dagger]

Quest 2 is fine in that regard.

[covert fern]

it's 8k yea, I've only ever seen people play gorilla tag on it

[lusty dagger]

It has more latency, but thats not that Bad, the worst thing is the compression crap loosing a heck lot of Detail.

[lusty dagger]

Its not 8k.

Not remotely.

[covert fern]

oh?

where did I hear that
ion know

[lusty dagger]

Its more like dual 1440p or something in terms of render Power needed

[covert fern]

which is why pcvr is better

more reliable hardware?

[lusty dagger]

We have to diffenciate between native pcvr, linked pcvr and standalone. Standalone the q2 is great for everything not vrc like said, linked pcvr sucks (imo....), native pcvr is King Tier obv.

[covert fern]

so I should get a gpu first

[lusty dagger]

Tbh i wouldnt be wondering if the igpu of the 7800x3d would be running vrc fine enough.

Because, like said it needs very little gpu Power.

But ye get a gpu.

[wise crescent]

Interesting I gotta mess with that and see

[delicate swan]

Igpu = best gpu

[covert fern]

I was thinking 6800xt
I was going to jump straight to 7900xtx but like
it's a drain on the bank

[lusty dagger]

People say rx7000 is bugged for vr, cannot confirm or disagree but ye.

Rx6000 is Solid, and imo in terms of price to Performance a lot better than anything nvidia.

Using a rx6800

[weak bluff]

rx 7900 just got driver fix recently so... go ask people who own it see how it goes

if money is concern just buy good value 6700 XT or 6800

[lusty dagger]

If a rx7800 or rx7800xt Releases id be one of them.

[covert fern]

I have no expenses
it's just more of a "I want it now" type thing adhd brain

[weak bluff]

yeah ok keep saving

oh and

[covert fern]

I get paid tmr

[weak bluff]

if you are going for starter headset

like CV1 or HTC vive then

for duration of using those headset a cheap GPU will suffice

like 6700 XT or RTX 3060

We are in the last generations of GDDR6 which every new generation of GDDR memory has always been huge jump performance so next upgrade should leap

[lusty dagger]

I wouldnt go vive, but CV1 is great

[covert fern]

crazy
I'm jumping from a 1030 so anything is huge

[weak bluff]

vive for upgradability like an AMD socket

but eh fine

[lusty dagger]

There is basically no upgradeability.

[weak bluff]

yeah yeah CV1 for quality

[lusty dagger]

1.0 base Stations etc

So no, i wouldnt go vive

[weak bluff]

there isnt good reason to go Base Station 2.0 other than bigger than 3.5mx3.5m, bit longer lifespan and using more than 2 base station

[lusty dagger]

If youd like to Upgrade, you could basically only keep the vive wands, why would you want anyways so ye xD

Is a index working on 1.0s?

I didnt have that in mind

[weak bluff]

for cheaper headsets just be happy with mid range GPU and use it for 2 years before GDDR7 GPUs come out

[lusty dagger]

If yes, you could keep the lighthouses - ye.

[weak bluff]

yes 1,0 has in fact more compatibility than 2.0 but it does not matter

1.0 HTC controllers and headsets are not compatible with 2.0

[lusty dagger]

Thaught the newer stuff is 2.0 only

[lusty dagger]

Ye ofc...

[weak bluff]

anything newer is 2.0 only

but it does nto matter

[lusty dagger]

Hu

What now

Index working on 1.0 and 2.0 or 2.0 only?

[weak bluff]

because why care about support for vive want and headset 1.0

[weak bluff]

both

[lusty dagger]

So thats not true

[lusty dagger]

Not if youd like to Upgrade, but if the newer stuff still works with 1.0 - you could go that Route yes.

[weak bluff]

ok reclarify anything release past 1.0 works with 2.0 base station only but base station 1.0 is with everything

[lusty dagger]

Huh...

What now

Newer stuff works with 2.0 and 1.0?

[weak bluff]

Base station 1.0: Everything
Base station 2.0: Anythign release after 1.0

[lusty dagger]

So not 2.0 only like you say.

[weak bluff]

im confused but the compatibility is liek that but also im saying it does not matter since why would you pair base station 2.0 with htc vive from 1.0 era

[lusty dagger]

You wouldnt.

The only thing im talking about is

Newer stuff, works with 1.0 and 2.0 or 2.0 only?

F. E. A bigscreen beyond

[weak bluff]

both

all

[lusty dagger]

So yes.

[weak bluff]

yes and pardon if it is confusing

[lusty dagger]

Not 2.0 only like you repeated

Thats what confused me

[weak bluff]

newer stuff will work with all base station

[lusty dagger]

Said 2.0 only but also not

[weak bluff]

stuff older than base station 2.0 will nto work with base station 2.0

[lusty dagger]

Yea so it does work - didnt think so, thats why i kept asking

[lusty dagger]

Ye thats ofc...

[weak bluff]

ok its clear now

[lusty dagger]

Ye

Didnt think the newer stuff still supports them lol

Another thing im wondering about now - could you Mix 2.0 and 1.0 Stations? xd

[weak bluff]

well... unfortunately no

but you can use 1 base station (not recomemnded)

[inland dome]

somehow i ran boneworks on r7 250 and athlon x3 460. laggy blurry but playable.

[little plinth]

laggy and playable don't go together when it's VR

[haughty thistle]

Never underestimate an iron stomache 😎

[warm stirrup]

I played the forest vr on a quadro k600 and i7 4770s

[rancid kestrel]

How are you supposed to hold the Index controllers?

I'm wondering if the finger tracking doesn't work very well because I'm doing it wrong.

[gloomy crater]

It can be weird if your fingers don't naturally fall where they expect them too. Like if you have bigger or smaller hands than average

[deep yew]

also some games get weird if your finger isn't on the trigger

[weak bluff]

You dont. It is strapped to your hand.

[covert fern]

I pulled the trigger

quest pro 2 on its way

[gloomy crater]

w h a t

[covert fern]

wym

[gloomy crater]

There's a quest pro and a quest 2

[covert fern]

or

quest 2

yea

I was confused because I just bought galaxy buds 2 pro

arriving overnight

[gloomy crater]

Very cool 👍 hope you enjoy it

[covert fern]

thanks man
maybe later I can get some of the accessories for it
any headstraps you reccomend?

and or battery packs

[gloomy crater]

The headstrap I used for Quest 2 was an audio strap from KiwiVR, same company who makes the index strap grip covers for the Quest 2 I really like. As for battery packs, I don't really have any recommendations.

[covert fern]

you can ping when replying btw
I don't really mind, plus it helps me see messages

[lusty dagger]

You can still manipulate the Position by adjusting.

[lusty dagger]

Usually you want like the second last setting for angle and then as tight as you want, should mostly work.

Finger on the trigger and Do a few Wave-things with your fingers - so the controller can adjust its tracking.

Should then work.

[dire eagle]

The bobovr head straps are also an option

I have the bobovr m2 plus and you can upgrade it with a battery pack down the line

[covert fern]

the occulus is late

we love amazon

[covert fern]

damn

I don't know why but damn

[gloomy crater]

Yup that's how Amazon be

[grizzled field]

ahh yes "two day shipping", two weeks later:

https://tenor.com/view/package-delivering-package-throw-package-door-package-delivery-gif-22363279

[tawdry dove]

I remember getting my quest 2

it was crazy

got it during a german class with a german teacher who didn't know how to turn her mic on

I played a lot of beatsaber

[covert fern]

it's still delivering

I don't even want to cancel it anymore

[little plinth]

Wew

Nothing like hitting up fitbeat maps on beat saber lel

[gloomy crater]

Same but for me it's this one map of Cirno's Perfect Math Class on Quantum Physics diffculty

[little plinth]

do mods work on 1.30?

or do i need to go to 1.29

because it doesn't work for me

[gloomy crater]

Yeah it seems to me like the mod options for versions after 1.29 are kinda lacking. I use beatsaber legacy launcher to just stay on a specific version until a major feature update happens. Right now I'm staying on 1.28 because that's what version my main bslegacylauncher install is on and there weren't very many changes in 1.29 so I didn't feel the need to update, but if you're downgrading to play with mods, 1.29 would probably be better

[haughty thistle]

I'm still on 1.27 for that exact reason xD

[weak bluff]

VRChat VKet Cocoon Art Aquarium world has worst Quest 2 artifact ever

Took it though lens

The worst part is moving fishes

Its way worse when put through eyes

[haughty thistle]

Dark scenes and lots of particles

Both things that traditional video encoders are known to struggle with massively

For me even just firing up Beat Saber on the Quest Pro and loading a darker map (like the beginning part of "The Wall" remap). Tons of blocking in the darker parts and an overall mushy looking image. Playing Derail Valley on the Quest Pro when it's night in-game is also torture. You can't see what the next Switch is set to unless you highlight it with the remote or are so close that you can't stop in time anymore. Not a problem on the Varjo Aero (which is generally regarded to have trashy contrast and thus darks)

[little plinth]

I tried taking a through the lense pic but

My S8+ cam is actually too shit to see lol

I need a better ethernet adapter

It gives up at beyond 92 Mbps

So i can only run at HEVC 10-bit 90Mbps

[dull tide]

As a Quest pro user, are you worred about lack of support in the future?

[little plinth]

Meta not gonna drop support anytime soon

Look at how long Q1 lasted

Even then Q1 is dropped out of necessity since its hardware is shit

[little plinth]

my typing ability in VD has became quite good

40WPM

faster than some people type on keyboard

[gloomy crater]

One time during a video audition thing I was doing, I loaded up a rhythm game on my computer while inside VR on the SteamVR virtual desktop viewer and I accidentally FC'd a song through VD while waiting for a response.

[rancid kestrel]

39th!

[cedar belfry]

I'm on 1.28, but damn I miss 1.19

[rancid kestrel]

1.20.0 was a good one.

[gloomy crater]

Is it just me or do custom beatsaber charters not make use of the two new note types nearly as much as they should

Like, I HATE having to hit those notes where it's two full notes lined up with each other with a big space in between. I know it's supposed to force you to do an extra wide swing in order to hit both notes, but 9 times out of 10 the timing is off so I'm only able to hit one note instead of both. Then the problem gets worse with 3 or 4 note chains. It's never been satisfying to hit, just annoying. Then comes along the new chain notes, which are MILES better than the dumb spaced notes people usually use, but people refuse to use them because 'they're unsatisfying to hit'

[lusty dagger]

The thing is, higher Level players would have to get used to them, im just average f. E. (3800ish global) - but i as for now struggle quite a lot with the sliders and especially the faders(?) (the trail things...)

At least for faster Songs, the Ost things are pretty easy

The concept is cool, but i dont see it in really fast Songs that soon tbh - at most the sliders.

[gloomy crater]

It's fine if super high NPS charts don't use them, since those aren't the intended charts for the vast majority of people. But average difficulty charts in the 5 - 7 notes per second range are still severely lacking them, despite not really having a reason to. If I knew how to use the newer versions of the mapping tools, and if doing so wouldn't break song scoring, I'd be going into all of my charts and replacing spaced notes with chain notes because they're just straight up better for me.

Arc notes are kinda... questionable for most applications so I understand people not using them

[lusty dagger]

I see quite a few Songs using it - but yea slower ones

Like 5-6* at max

And yes arcs was the Word i was looking for...

You can turn them off - but then whats the point for higher Level mappers using them xD

[lusty dagger]

Btw the 2 notes things are funny af.

[gloomy crater]

Like I get people using them back in the day because that was the only way to make people do a SUPER WIDE swing, by lining up multiple notes and forcing people to hit them all at the same time due to them being in the same layer, but now we have chain notes to do that exact thing, AND they're a customizable shape AND length so you're not tied to note dimension increments, so you'd think they're just straight up a better option but apparently not

[lusty dagger]

People are just not used to it - and they are weird to Hit - doesnt matter if its technically the same swing yk

[haughty thistle]

There are some that do, and it's always satisfying when they use the new arches 😄
And honestly, I do agree with you on the two cubes with a space in between, tho when there's no gap, even with 3 or 4 block chains I don't have a problem with weirdly

[gloomy crater]

Yeah with 3 or 4 block chains, there's a sense of continuity that isn't there with the spaced notes. I guess I've gotta start branching out more to find charts with the new note types. I've recently been on a binge of wall art maps that have rather minimalistic note structure so you can focus on the spectacle

[lusty dagger]

The reason why 4 stacked ones are easier than 2 spaced ones is because its just an easier pattern, you can see it just better - like where it is and where to Hit

Also that exact reason why the spaced ones are just nice to hit - if you do.

Its like playing tech maps - just in like 1000x easier - but its a simelar Story - though in a whole other difficulty range lol

[silk shadow]

what's good VR games? already got beat saber, kinda looking for games that are similar or better

or even adventure / exploration games in vr

• got these

[hallow cliff]

kanojo....

nah but there are plenty of awesome vr games

these are all the vr games i own, some particularly good ones include:
Half life alyx
Into the Radius
Contractors/Pavlov (contractors is better but more people have pavlov)
Walking dead Saints and Sinners
Wanderer (if you like puzzles)

Rumble is also very fun, but its a very physical vr game. a lot of form to learn

the community is also small so its hard to find matches

[lusty dagger]

Simelar/better than beatsaber? I tried a lot. Not one came close.

Beatsaber is just the King of its class, the mods alone.

Pistol Whip is also cool - but not a game id play for more than i guess 10hrs total.

[hallow cliff]

pistol whip is far easier to hurt yourself as well as a much better workout lol

[lusty dagger]

Non Rhythm vr games gets interesting, vrc, superhot, hl:a, boneworks - and a lot more

[hallow cliff]

i think HLA is the best experience ive ever had in vr

[lusty dagger]

Depends on what Kind of Level you play beatsaber

[hallow cliff]

i mainly do expert+ levels but id say im expert level

i play with no fail because its much better for learning songs for me

[lusty dagger]

Doing high acc faster Songs - aka swinging big, with like 8-9+* - is about as much of an Workout you can have in vr lol

[hallow cliff]

yeah fast big swings are crazy

[lusty dagger]

Or like actively vibing too Songs, doing some jumpstyle in vr etc xD

Which - i do in vrc but not in Beatsaber tbh...

[hallow cliff]

theres this one map of overkill by riot which is pretty insane. one of my favorites

[lusty dagger]

I just dont like slower Songs in Beatsaber.

[lusty dagger]

Its sloooow.

And old

[hallow cliff]

unironically crab rave expert plus is difficult

[lusty dagger]

Hate the mapping lol

Or you mean - the Ost Version of Overkill, but its also pretty slow.

[hallow cliff]

uhh forget the mapper

maybe nuketime?

[lusty dagger]

I played custom songs exclusively since i found mods for bs

[lusty dagger]

So the custom Song, its nuketime and like 4 years old lol

[hallow cliff]

i played them for a while then my version downgrader stopped working for no reason

[lusty dagger]

Aka old, slow, Bad mapping

[hallow cliff]

yeah lol

[lusty dagger]

Go the simpler Route. If your game works, make a Backup of the beatsaber folder.

When steam Updates it, just delete and out your Backup there, steam doesnt actively Check the installed Version but forces Updates.

[hallow cliff]

i should probably start playing beatsaber again lol

[lusty dagger]

So if a Update Releases, you are forced to Update, but you can just put old instance and it doesnt realize it.

[hallow cliff]

oh so i can keep mods on my current iteration?

that actually sounds like a great idea

[lusty dagger]

And as for now, since 1.30 whatever is Released which included a unity Update, you can Set the beta to legacy and you are stuck on 1.29.4 or so.

At least for now...

[lusty dagger]

Just a copy of the whole beatsaber folder. Works perfectly.

[hallow cliff]

cool

[lusty dagger]

Just - you cannot Start it when not in steam folder, but you can keep it and after an update replace the New Version with your working modded folder.

[cedar belfry]

I personally like the legacy notes more

[gloomy crater]

I love nuketime's overkill map. That map introduced me to a good few charting techniques I'd never seen before

[cedar belfry]

I can only see arc notes being used in noodle maps, tech maps, but chain notes should be used a bit more i guess
also ew, tech maps, vibro is so much better <3

[haughty thistle]

If you're into train sims, Derail Valley is a really good one and is what I'm currently playing a lot (and I'm not even that into trains xD)
Ofc Half Life Alyx is a must if you're into VR Adventures 😄

[warm stirrup]

Bruh someone on Twitter sold their index on day 1 and replaced it with a vive pro 2 💀

[haughty thistle]

💀

[warm stirrup]

Apparently for the resolution

[weak bluff]

technically you upgrade specs but not anything else

[lusty dagger]

Vibro? No. Not even a little.

Notes that Match the Song and its bpm yea.

Vibro is just Bad lol

[cedar belfry]

tech is worse

[lusty dagger]

Tech is funny.

[cedar belfry]

try aftershock

[lusty dagger]

No.

[cedar belfry]

you must alr know what it is

[lusty dagger]

Ludicrous speed and stuff, these are cool f. E.

[cedar belfry]

tech is worst, vibro is amazing, shitpost is funny

what about accuracy sliders or poodle maps

[lusty dagger]

Are you also one of those who likes the old mapping style?

[cedar belfry]

depends on how shit the mapping is

usually no

[lusty dagger]

Wdym with accuracy sliders? Noodle is mostly boring imo.

[cedar belfry]

not noodle extensions

sometimes known as paul notes

[lusty dagger]

Would have thaught yes lmao

[cedar belfry]

"10 reasons i hate acc" map

tech sliders are fun

but painful

[lusty dagger]

You are the exact opposite tbh.

You dont play any other rhythmgames, right?

[cedar belfry]

nope

[lusty dagger]

Yea makes sense.

[cedar belfry]

god i love discord compression

[lusty dagger]

If youd be the type of beatsaber Player who is into rhythmgames, youd hate vibros cause the notes dont Match the Song at all, and any stuff that doesnt allow full accurate swings.

You can exploid game mechanics for the later, but you get the point.

[cedar belfry]

here are the other clips i have

[cedar belfry]

literally osu!

[lusty dagger]

Osu is great

Just cannot get into the Standard Mode. Mania is really cool though.

[cedar belfry]

second clip here is literally me cheesing

but for fun

[lusty dagger]

Sdvx. Muse Dash (which is just Hardcore taiko lol) etc.

[cedar belfry]

I don't like osu because i don't have a pad

[lusty dagger]

Play mania or taiko then

[little plinth]

Osu is perfectly playable on a mouse

[lusty dagger]

And use maps made for them.

[lusty dagger]

Yea and also no, you have to really like doing it.

[little plinth]

Though I'm only a 5.5 player on osu

[cedar belfry]

5.5 star or 5.5k ranked

[lusty dagger]

Its like playing mania on a dualshock.

[little plinth]

5.5 star

Well was