virtual-reality

[rancid kestrel]

Exactly.

[kindred spade]

one of them is easier to hold

[rancid kestrel]

And one of them is harder to play Beat Saber with.

The Index controllers are super cool, but the wands are better for Beat Saber.

[kindred spade]

the wands are heavier than the knuckles you have less grip than them, they are objectively worse than the knuckles. Now dont get me wrong, the knuckles can still be a pain to play especially if you arent used to them. But they are lighter and have better weight distribution.

[rancid kestrel]

It feels like my greatest limiter is a weird tracking issue with my specific setup.

[kindred spade]

ive played on 3 different controllers, wands, knuckles and the quest 2 controllers, the wands were the worst. For me at least. What ever works best for you is always the way you should go.

which base stations are you using? and do you only notice your controllers tracking weird or both them and the headset?

[rancid kestrel]

It's only the controllers in a part of my room, I'm using the stock base stations with the sync cable.

[kindred spade]

correct me if im wrong but those are the 1.0 stations right?

[rancid kestrel]

Yeah.

[kindred spade]

well

for one they arent the greatest

what orientation to you have them in?

[rancid kestrel]

Yeah, but my room setup isn't the best either. It isn't a dedicated room.

[kindred spade]

I get that, mine isnt either

[rancid kestrel]

Up in opposing corners with the least occlusions I can manage.

[kindred spade]

like the one diagram on the left here?

sorry no right

[rancid kestrel]

Right.

[kindred spade]

im dyslexic

[rancid kestrel]

Just offset a bit more.

[kindred spade]

well thats good at least

im assuming you just have some obstructions then like bed, desk ect

[rancid kestrel]

More or less.

[kindred spade]

and are you standing here?

[rancid kestrel]

Yeah.

Covering the TV doesn't help.

Oh yeah there is a table too.

[kindred spade]

and thats the only reflective surface you have?

[rancid kestrel]

I'm stupid.

[kindred spade]

oh and is your server super tall?

[rancid kestrel]

The window is covered and the rest of the stuff isn't reflective.

Nah, but that's not in a place where it would affect much.

[kindred spade]

well im thinking

is your bookshelf tall?

[rancid kestrel]

Shouldn't it be something like this?

I'm wondering if moving the bottom left one to the right more so it's less next to the couch and stuff would be better.

[kindred spade]

base stations are fuckin stupid do where if they arent symmetrical to each other theyre going to track weird
so im thinking this might be a better alignment if you can fit it

I know the tv is right there BUT as long as youre covering it which I see you already are it shouldnt be an issue

[rancid kestrel]

Covering it didn't change anything.

[haughty thistle]

I can tell ya, if all you want to use Beat Saber for is a workout, the Vive Wands are the much better choice. Granted, for competitive you want as light of a controller as possible, but I ain't playing competitive 😉

[kindred spade]

hehe imagine sweating beat saber couldnt be meee hahahaahah

[haughty thistle]

Plus, it's hard to get used to the Index controllers for Beat Saber. Yes, there's grip adjustments, but they never feel as comfortable as the default one with the Vive wands...

[rancid kestrel]

I want to get a newer Vive one of these days.

Then I can use the better basestations.

[kindred spade]

anyways im like 89% sure its the alignment plus with them being 1.0 stations and being vive wands... its a perfect storm

[rancid kestrel]

It happens with the Index ones too. :V

[kindred spade]

then im 95% sure its the alignment and mix of 1.0 stations

[haughty thistle]

If Vive, go with the Pro 1 or Pro Eye. With the Pro 2 you ain't getting your moneys worth (considering the resolution is stuck at a much lower then native res, even on a 3090) and with the Cosmos line, the hinge is gonna make it so that the lenses are never properly aligned with your eyes...

[kindred spade]

the 2.0 stations are night and day compared to the 1.0s

[rancid kestrel]

I'm not sure what I'm going to get, I'm hoping by the time I get my next HMD that Valve will have a wireless option.

[kindred spade]

I know there are rumors that it will

[rancid kestrel]

Always.

[kindred spade]

and knowing valve theyll do it a hell of a lot better than meta ever hoped too

[rancid kestrel]

If they just use the Intel tech I would be happy.

Isn't wireless Oculus stuff just Wi-Fi?

[kindred spade]

the oculuslink streams it over wifi.. soooo

yea

[rancid kestrel]

I feel no extra latency with the Vive one.

[kindred spade]

and not over wifi 6 either

I bet if they had the 6e technology to put into it their link would have worked a whole lot better so long as the users tech was also 6e compatibal

[haughty thistle]

But even then. Wifi 6e is still "only" 6GHz. If you want near cable-like latency, you'd want 60GHz WiGig. Not to mention that Wigig 2 has a bandwidth near that of a full DP 1.4 link, so only minimal compression would be needed to push an image over Wigig 2, while Wifi 6e still needs a heck of a lot compression...

From patents, leaks, etc., it is safe to assume that whenever Valve does come out with a Wireless HMD, it's gonna use Wigig for the wireless interconnect

[kindred spade]

I never said it would be perfect just better

im just hoping they keet the "index 2" in the same price range

[rancid kestrel]

That's the sane option.

The wireless tech thing that is.

[kindred spade]

wireless tech has come along way and its pretty crazy, im still not on the full bandwagon for it but im curious to see how far we can push all of it

[haughty thistle]

Same

[rancid kestrel]

This is one of the few use cases I like for it.

[kindred spade]

also @rancid kestrel now that I know your playing on pc beatsaber... no excuse.. mod it, I promise its worth it

[rancid kestrel]

Every time I do my saves get deleted.

[kindred spade]

research bslegacy launcher.. it fixes all of that without having to back stuff up

[haughty thistle]

I personally would only switch to Wireless Full Time, when the switch isn't with compromises, or compromises I'm willing to live with. The VP1 with the Wireless Adapter got really close, but then I started encountering issues with the Power Delivery (where it would black-screen in the middle of a session with battery still half full). The image on the Quest was always way too compressed for me with dark smudges on high chroma-contrasts being the worst offender and a blurry-looking image a close second...

[rancid kestrel]

It only ever does that to me once a few minutes after playing, a replug fixes it.

[haughty thistle]

I've since switched to a Varjo Aero, so going back to the VP1 is quite a downgrade now for me xD
For Beat Saber I don't mind, but playing VRChat without Eye or Face Tracking is kinda akward now for me...
Fun-fact: the black-screen issue kinda dissappeared now. Used to appear around 30-40 mins into a session, but hasn't happened to me in a while now. Maybe turning the fan around helped?

[kindred spade]

oh yea I forgot the vives have face tracking...

man index is really starting to show its age

[haughty thistle]

You can use the Facial Tracker on any headset, as long as you can find a way to mount it and connect it via USB to the PC

it's the Eye Tracking that's the problem. I don't have a Pro Eye, and even if I had, I wouldn't be able to use it with prescription lens inserts...

[rancid kestrel]

I do think that sounds like a cool thing to have, just not super useful.

[kindred spade]

how do you connect it to the pc? is it a Bluetooth adapter thing like the trackers?

[haughty thistle]

It makes you super expressive in VRChat. Not quite uncanny-valley like, but certainly a welcome addition for Social VR cracks like me 👀

[kindred spade]

man I still remember the first time I moved my legs in vrc... shit was wild to me

[haughty thistle]

No, it's just USB. It has a Type-C cable coming out of it, but you can adapt it to Type-A and plug it into the frunk port on the Index for example. Just make sure that the USB connection is USB 3.0 all the way through (USB 3.0 Type-C to type-A adapter, Index plugged into a USB 3.0 port, etc.)

[kindred spade]

ohhh that makes more sense cause I was like "how to you find a usb cable long enough to play vr in with that", I forgot about the usb port in the front 😅

[haughty thistle]

I mean, you could also use a 5m+ long USB 3.0 Active extension cable. For some headsets like the Varjo Aero or Reverb G2, that's actually required since those don't have a USB port on them (well, the Varjo does, but that is it's main tether in port)
As you can see here, I did have to use an extension cable and just glued it's extender to the top of the headset

Yup

Well, you'll going to need a Type-A to Type-C adapter in order to plug it in, but yes, it'll work with the Index and with the USB port in the Index Front compartment

[kindred spade]

lmao i triggered the warship lol

hmm for $130 bucks

hardcore considering it

those adapters cost next to nothing tho

[haughty thistle]

Lol apparently I triggered the warship bot 👀

Anyways, as I was saying, the avatars in VRChat can be another money sink. Since the blendshapes for Face Tracking can be quite a pain to set up, commissioning someone to make those can be expensive (like 200$+). There are public avatars out there, tho I can't guarantee they'll be of your liking, and tons of bases also already have the necessary blendshapes (either for use in VRChat with the so called "SRanipal blendshapes" or for V-Tubing with the so called "AR52/ARkit blendshapes")

[turbid tangle]

I’d like to use quest airlink but my wifi is really bad. Is there a way to have a high speed network between two devices?

[haughty thistle]

You either get a dedicated Wifi router to connect your Quest to (this router would then be wired up with LAN in between your main router and your PC) or you'll need to use a cable with Quest Link...

[haughty thistle]

If you want more info on Face Tracking with VRChat, I'd highly recommend you this Github repo: https://github.com/benaclejames/VRCFaceTracking
It's the software that takes in the data from the Face Tracker and sends it to VRChat using OSC. That GitHub also contains a Discord link where tons of likeminded people linger 😉

[turbid tangle]

Is there a way to not use my main router. I get 25mbps on a good day

[haughty thistle]

Air link doesn't go through your internet connection tho. It's all local (from the PC via LAN to the Wifi AP and from there via Wifi to the Quest; not a single bit leaves your home network)

[turbid tangle]

I’m assuming not but is there a tutorial on how to do that

[kindred spade]

I'll check it out thanks!

[thin salmon]

Isn't it sad how unless we pretty much Cyberpunk it up in 2077 AD with USB ports in head, etc, it's practically impossible to get 100% immersive VR with all five senses.

Even Gabe Newell said like a decade ago, the only true way is to skip the sensory organ and hook right into its nerve. I 100% believe this because visual/spatial stuff is just a great convenience out of pure luck. Everything else, though... :

[harsh niche]

yeah

matrix type shit

I’m down for that though that sounds so amazing

you can do ANYTHING with 100% realism

like you’re living it

go skydiving off of the Empire State Building? you got it

drive a Lamborghini 200mph on the 5 freeway? Done

[gloomy crater]

Cue something I saw while watching anime:

'I really oughta get my hands on that new HMD, the HTC WINE'

[rancid kestrel]

Wine Is Not an Emulator

[thin salmon]

Well unless you find me a way to smell the lambo seat without refillable cartridges of lambo seat dust sprayed into nostrils

Or even if you break it down into some base compounds that make up all smells in combinations (youre still looking at inkjet basically up nostrils)

You'll have to skip the sensory input and hook directly into nerve

Essentially cyberpunk 2077 or some usb port in head. Either way, true VR sounds painful

The only other way I can think of I guess is somehow manipulating charges to make your olfactory sensors think that they are interacting with chemicals 🤷‍♂️

Still sounds like metal probe into nostrils and maybe not practical enough yet

[gloomy crater]

That reminds me

It'd be hard to stop your olfactory nerve from smelling stuff that's not a part of your whole VR experience what with it hooking straight to the part of the brain that processes that info without any sort of bus that can be disabled

Kinda like how you stop being able to hear, see, and feel certain things while asleep, but you can always smell stuff no matter what's going on. We'd probably be able to find a way to activate that 'sleep setting' to halt or dampen the actual signals being sent by your eyes, ears, and skin to make the sim more immersive, but not so with the nose. s'why smelling salts meant to wake people up work, and apparently it's saved a lot of people cause they can wake up if they smell smoke when their houses are on fire even if they're asleep. But such a resilient nerve is hard to turn off for the purposes of manufacturing an artificial experience

[thin salmon]

Yeah you're also on to some additional problem here

All of them should be cut off from the sensory organ and connected to bus

Because you can stimulate, but you can't unstimulate. Kind of weird to picture. You're sending additional image on top of what the eyes see, etc. Makes sense though. Could be even as simple as a frame over reality color channels added. You see light or you don't.

Black being 0 and white being max value your eyes can handle isn't virtual it turns out

Also bizarre when you consider the five sense being distinct fundamentally for the same reason why the colors are 'different' with respect to one another. They come from separate nerves into brain

In reverse, you could say that what makes red green and blue 'of the same colors' is they aren't smell, taste, etc. Somewhere there's a starting point and directionality to all of this lmao.

[gritty portal]

Hey does anyone know how I can fix my problem?
I’m playing bonelab on the oculus quest using oculus link to steam
But it keeps making me tiny (like not even joking the height of a chair)
No matter how I change the height settings and my arms are so short I can’t even grab guns but when I look my monitor everything is the right Size etc?

[gritty portal]

now it wont even load

it glitches as if im using a non vr ready pc when i am

choppy

it freaks out then oculus link crashes

it was working fine with blade and sorcery

[gritty portal]

Never mind I fixed it

[mystic glacier]

I have a quest 2 and am thinking of getting a AMD 6750 card. Have not used a graphics card in years. Any one have any comments this combo? I think it should do medium-high performance, I see people gaming on a lot less. But technically the quest is capable of outputting quite a few pixels

[rapid otter]

An RX 6750 right ?

[weak bluff]

try getting nvidia if you can

the stupid amd driver is like lottery ticket

especially you have quest 2 which encoder performance matters

if you cant 6750 is fine

[mystic glacier]

Yes, was looking at a RX 6750 XT

[mystic glacier]

I run linux, so in general people seem to recommend AMD. But it is hard quantify, I think driver support is poor for both on linux.

[rapid otter]

I don't think you'll have a good experience on Linux

VR is very quirky

And so i Linux

[mystic glacier]

Ya, I am aware of that problem, but that was the first I heard about teh AMD issue (thanks for that Menanced).

But even if I dont want to give up and go back to windows, with the card I should be able to run virtual machines with about 100% of the performance intact, but I have had quite a reasonable experience so far running stand alone games. thier is some support for us linux VR gamers.

[rapid otter]

Thing is it needs very low level access that VMS may not provide

And also lots of compatibility and drivers are involved...

[mystic glacier]

Well all I can do is try. It is not like any of my hardware would not be able to support windows being installed on it. I would just prefer to continue with Linux and AMD has a decent cost to performance lead at the moment. and my research so far seems to indicate the AMD VR problems are mostly solved.

[hollow sand]

I wanted to know if vr games are more cores dependent than non vr games ... like would 6c12t be good enough or 8c16t would be significantly better ?

[mystic glacier]

technically I think because of the in general greater number of pixels you have to push in VR, they should be even less processor dependent than desktop games. Also many games are not optimized for parallel processing. So get an actually expert to tell you, but I doubt it matters and probably single core speed is more important.

[hollow sand]

Ok thanx that's exactly what I wanted to know

[weak bluff]

Oh linux?

AMD no second thought

If there is issue they fix fast

Windows one i have been waiting 7 months and still no fix

[weak bluff]

Me running VRChat

That 1 core choking

The rest just chilling

6 cores that are fast in single thread is enough

Preferably X3D if you can

[hollow sand]

going for 7600x

well that picture is speaking for itself

which gpu do you have ?

[sullen linden]

what good vr games would you guys recommend

[gloomy crater]

The 'top sellers' section for VR titles on steam is a good place to look if you want recommendations. Half Life Alyx, Boneworks (NOT bonelab), Beat Saber, Blade and Sorcery, Pavlov, all that. Check on there for a bunch more. Tons are on sale right now as well

[kindred spade]

im legally required to say beat saber

[weak bluff]

6600 XT

[gritty portal]

nvidia is so good for vr its so noticeable

i tried a amd equivalent to my 3060 ti and it was nearly unplayable much easier experience with nvidis highly reccomend for vr

[gritty portal]

depends on what you like

free:

vr chat

echo arena

paid: beat saber bone lab or bone works blade and sorcery half life alyx is aight too?

[placid gull]

Is the Index still the best headset around?

Also, how do headsets at half the price compare to it. Is there anything that's actually worth buying, until the next gen headsets come out?

[weak bluff]

In benchmark my 6600XT is worse than 3060 in VR

But i got 6600XT cheaper than 3060 anyways

[weak bluff]

Yes and yes. Dont wait next gen you just gonna end up like this:

[placid gull]

Well, what's that then?

Or do I just get the Index in March, if I can afford it?

[dull tide]

Feels like current price is to make up for the margins lost for the QC problems from the first runs

[leaden ruin]

yeah but i am sure it will leak in 2023 the index will drop in price and the new one will be better anyway

https://tenor.com/view/wojak-blocks-dumb-gif-25774850

[icy wharf]

if u buy index in 2023 you dislike money

[placid gull]

That's my point

I have no idea what else to get

And flipping it on Ebay after getting the better Valve thingy shouldn't be too hard either

[icy wharf]

literally

quest 2, pico 4

neo 3 link if ur into direct display connection

[gritty portal]

Quest 2 With The Meta Pro Controllers?

[icy wharf]

good upgrade if you already own a q2

[gritty portal]

cries in quest 1

Atleast I have link that’s all I need

[gloomy crater]

I paid $600 for my index in 2020 so I think I made it out pretty well. I've gotta see if they'll RMA my left controller or not but eh

I probably won't be buying any new VR hardware unless that new open source headset turns out to be as good as they say it'll be, or if I end up getting a quest 2 for traveling, or if the deckard comes out in the next few years

[left bluff]

Very true

(sorry for ping)

[weak bluff]

Index is best sub $1000 and below especially half priced used

Best budget is annoyingly still Quest 2

And budget one wont disappoint you they arent bad either and even has higher res than index

[left bluff]

Yes, unfortunately

[finite yarrow]

Quest 1 is still great for how cheap it is, especially if you dont use vr often

[weak bluff]

OLED and comfort is quest 1 best

also included long cable and 2 headphone jack

fabric casing and IPD adjustment

[gritty portal]

You don’t get it I bought the highest storage one but don’t even use the quest stor I use my pc for games now

It’s still pretty good other than that tho

[weak bluff]

using quest just for PCVR is like using edge to download chrome

[turbid tangle]

is there a good guide for debug tool settings for the quest 2?

[primal cliff]

can someone help me with oculus link

[hollow sphinx]

anyone got a secret source they are willing to leak for vive nose piece? Mine just broke after a long time and I know they used to sell them in batches of 3. Unfortunately they are unavailable and looking on ebay I'd prefer to not pay $40-$50 (not including shipping) just for the nose piece.

I know it's not a critical piece but I typically lend my vive to be used at conventions as well so I'd prefer to the nose rest not broken when the general public uses it

[gritty portal]

What’s up?

[gritty portal]

That sucks are there not any 3rd Party Pieces for it?

[hollow sphinx]

unfortunately most of the 3rd party sellers i've found are out of stock as well, and this is like the once piece that isn't on the ifixit site

[gritty portal]

To be honest your best bet is to keep checking EBay I seen one sell recently for 5 Pounds Which I’d say is about 6 Bucks

[hollow sphinx]

Yup, that's the plan right now. Was just curious if anyone else potentially had a source, thanks!

[gritty portal]

Someone else might hopefully you get it fixed man

[rancid kestrel]

Goodness I am trash at this game.

[sullen linden]

anyone play population one

[hallow flax]

yesterday I bought a Meta Quest 2 VR headset with 128GB storage am I able to use my PC storage instead

[gloomy crater]

If you play games on the headset standalone, they're going to be stored on the headset inside the built in storage. If you play games from your PC over a cable or wireless link, then the games are stored on your PC. Wherever the games are installed to and played from, that's the storage that's used

[fleet halo]

I get rank A/B

[vagrant furnace]

i dont own a vr but me and my freind were playing the forest and i was so confused and thought the game was broken becuase his arms were spinnong around didnt think much of it then we went on some random game off the steam store and i see this

Vr and non vr should not be able to play with eachover this is the most cursed thing I've ever seen

I don't know what that sound at the end was lmao

[dull tide]

I’ve been playing gmod with a non Vr player in VR. Wish I had full body tracking for the memes

[oak wyvern]

should i get a new pair of pico 4s or buy a quest 2 for 200$?

[dull tide]

64GB?

PCVR?

[lime pewter]

I can only imagine playing like some shooter, come across a VR user without knowing it is compatible with VR
and you just end up seeing ronald mcdonald do the floss with a machine gun before shooting you

would hurt so badly...

the cringe

[dull tide]

Why tbag when you can floss

https://youtu.be/BOteMjz3hiE

[lime pewter]

tbag isn't cringe enough imo

floss is one of the most painful things to see someone doing imho

that dance only 10 year old fortnite kids do

[dull tide]

https://youtu.be/ovjZbptM-2k

https://youtu.be/JDyQODwsjhY

Imagine a FPS game with VR cross play and it has both Facial tracking and full body tracking

https://youtube.com/shorts/xMCP9LHVvSc?feature=share

That’s probably $1400 in VR equipment alone before the PC, right?

[pseudo sky]

the vive pro eye alone is 1k if you can find one

face tracker 130usd

but then you'll want the index controllers so you have finger tracking... and the full body trackers from htc...

so it's like 1530 ~ 1730usd depending on how much they paid for the vive pro eye

and assuming they didn't buy additional base stations

[oak wyvern]

64gb and im going to be playing on pc more

[dull tide]

Base stations as it is still feel early adopter while Inside out feels like it’s ready now

[haughty thistle]

You can use the Vive Facial Tracker (the thing you need to track your mouth) with any Headset really. All it needs is a USB connection back to your PC. For example, with the Index you can plug the facial tracker into the USB port in the front

[harsh niche]

$16 ir light pretty cool

[oak wyvern]

should i get a new pair of pico 4s 128gb or buy a quest 2 64gb for 200$ for pcvr?

[rapid otter]

That's good stuff...

[gloomy crater]

So note to self, a 6900XT can comfortably run a Reverb G2 at 140%+ on most common titles. The controllers are still garbage though

The AMVR grip covers for the G2 are already in the cart but does anyone know where one could buy some more grippy thumbstick covers for the G2 controllers

[frozen gull]

I know this is old but you aren't bad at it BTW. The stock maps kinda suck, especially the earlier ones.

[haughty thistle]

The Pico is likely going to give you a much better PCVR experience, if used with Virtual Desktop

[jaunty rampart]

again waiting time aa

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/997312010817646663/1058386370281873428/Screenshot_20221230_150905.jpg

[oak wyvern]

is it worth paying the 450$ for the pico over the 200$ for the quest?

[kindred spade]

hey man it just takes time, id recomend taking some time and change your controller settings, it makes a worlds difference for your acc

[safe gale]

Depends on what you're going for. If you're going for a budget but fun headset grab a used Quest 2, if you're going for a VERY budget headset grab a used Quest 1, if you want something that's not so budget then get a Pico. There's a price difference for a reason but keep in mind that a Quest 2 can give you a pretty much perfect experience by itself so you shouldn't JUST buy a Pico because "if it costs more it should be better"

[austere sleet]

Anyone have experience adapting display port to hdmi on a vr headset? I have a PC with only one hdmi port but the monitor and headset both need hdmi

[kindred spade]

im assuming your trying to use index?

if so I really dont recommend it, it would be better to use a miniDP port than convert to hdmi

youll have some latency issues or the headset wont even be recognized by steam

[haughty thistle]

I believe they were actually asking if it's ok to adapt DP to HDMI for an HDMI based headset (OG Vive, Rift CV1, WMR). If that's the case, it should be fine, if the adapter used is of the passive kind. The safer bet would be to adapt DP for the main monitor and use the HDMI port for the VR headset

[kindred spade]

oh if thats the case then yea it would be fine, sorry I misread the question 😅

[summer laurel]

Bruh

[haughty thistle]

Since Youtube decided to shadow-ban this rather important vid on child safety in VR, I figured I'd share it here: https://youtu.be/4-esctqB04s
And please, if you know anyone with kids and who were maybe thinking of picking up VR for their kids, or maybe already have picked up VR for their kids, show them this video. Together we can make VR a better place for everyone 🙏

[lime pewter]

VR for kids, imagine

[haughty thistle]

VRChat should add an ID check to make sure that only 18+ people play that game
I mean, whatever measures are done to prevent children from playing the game, there will be found ways around it. Best we can do is to try and protect those who do wander into that space and educate parents on maybe taking parental controls on VR headsets like the Quest serious...

[lime pewter]

Could always just make most of the world unable to play by doing height detection

Only “180+ allowed”

[finite yarrow]

And suddenly, platform shoes become alot more popular.....

[lime pewter]

Toe straps, so you have to proof its actually your toes down there
And so on

Make it a cursed suit you need to wear to prove

So a kid says “nah it is too ugly to wear”

[leaden ruin]

bruh im 20 and i would not be allowed to play

[lime pewter]

I would've been allowed to play at 13-14 yrs old

considering I was already over 180 at my 13th

[leaden ruin]

damn

[lime pewter]

Only shrunk since my 16th, lel

[leaden ruin]

nah but i think we cannot really do anything against kids then parental guidance/controls

sure you could report it but thats not gonna do much

[lime pewter]

just wait 30-50 years for all the dumb parents to begone, and only the tech addicted kids of these days to become the parents instead

[leaden ruin]

my dad refuses to buy a good laptop even though his one he bought just a little while ago 2nd hand is absolute thrash

"but it still works"

yeah and chrome takes 5 minutes to open 💀

[lime pewter]

My father: plays VR on 3080 + i9
my mother: paying more than 500 on a TV is ultra high end

obviously haven't been together since like year 1

[leaden ruin]

i have a lg tv i got from my dad that can do 3d

[lime pewter]

my entire mother's side still believe this is like the 1900s

where housing costs sub 100k

[leaden ruin]

so some things like a good tv is something he'd pay for

[lime pewter]

and a PC costs 600 at most

[leaden ruin]

you'd build a gtx 1650 PC out of that

[lime pewter]

my father's side was the opposite

owning 88 inch flat screens ~2010

grandparents on his side

[lime pewter]

according to my mother's family
that is i9 + 4090 and 100TB SSD level of pricing

not their exact words, but that's basically what they think

[leaden ruin]

mmhh weird

everyone knows inflation has skyrocketed since then

[lime pewter]

they asked me for a PC a while ago, with certain amounts of storage and such
basically just gave up

they don't want to spend over 300 for a PC that can store their 1 million images a year

[lime pewter]

to be fair, they haven't bought a TV, PC or house since like the 80-90s

[leaden ruin]

oh damn

[lime pewter]

their house is almost a century ago at this point

well, 75 or so

anyway, once those kinda people are no longer the parents

we'll actually see parents commonly know what "the internet" is

aka a cursed place where teenagers and young adults go to say and do the most cursed stuff...
(The stuff I've seen being done within VRChat are kind of...)

not "a place to talk with your friends and family"
aka facebook/whatsapp but with characters (what they believe)

[rancid kestrel]

My first non-tutorial expert+ song.

Also this randomly pops up, the way I hold the wands I know it's not me pushing the buttons.

[gritty portal]

600 Hundred for a pc ?! Where tf you gettin these deals at

[gritty portal]

Try cleaning the buttons

Could be some gunk pushing it down just enough to register

[finite yarrow]

You can build one for that right now. Even easier to hit that price if you go used. Something like a gtx 1070 and ryzen 5600

[weak bluff]

that same config i can build for $400

used parts ofc

[cloud temple]

is it worth for me to jump into VR now or should i wait a few months for the next best VR headset ?

[finite yarrow]

There will always be something new coming. If its your first headset, id suggest getting something lower end like a quest 2, then once you decide how you feel about it see whats available

[lime pewter]

read some more, referring to what my entire mother's side believes is i9+4090 tier pricing

so you can't help them ever with "recommendations"

the group of people that believe a 100sq/m house is about 60k
a TV costs 200, a PC costs 100-800, with 500+ being high end, audio costs 20-100, food costs 80 a month, etc

[oak wyvern]

should i get a used htc vive gen 2 for 230$ or should i get a oculus 2 for the full price or the pico 4

[haughty thistle]

Uhh... what the heck is a Vive Gen 2 or an Oculus 2?
You mean like Vive Pro (2) and Rift S?

[oak wyvern]

the normal htc vive and the oculus quest 2

[haughty thistle]

Ah. The Vive can be a good entryway into the Lighthouse Tracking ecosystem. So if you plan on getting things like Index Controllers and Vive Trackers (the latter for Fullbody Tracking) down the line, it certainly is a good option. Quest 2 vs Pico 4 is more of a choice of believes, and what you plan on doing with them. Either is a decent standalone and/or PC headset (tho I'd almost argue that the Vive is the best out of these three for PCVR, any of the 3 will do a decent job).
I'd go for the Quest 2 when you intend on using the standalone capabilities a lot, as the game catalogue for standalone just isn't there yet for the Pico, while the Pico will certainly give you a much better visual experience...

A pair of brand new lighthouses normally costs around 300$, so if you get the Vive with two controllers and lighthouses for that price, you're essentially getting a deal on the lighthouses and a free Vive + Controllers on top

[cloud temple]

so heres the thing, i only have 2 options, (well 3 but the 3rd is stupid expensive). so let me start by saying i need glasses in VR, and no i can't get prescription lenses for the VR headset cause for my prescription it would be 600-700$ for a pair of VR lenses. so it would be cheaper to just wear my glasses inside the VR headset.

my glasses frame is quite large and wont fit in 90% of VR headsets (its a thic frame boi) i've done the measurements and contacted the VR headset manufactures. the only VR headsets that will allow for my glasses to be in without rubbing or alot of discomfort would be the following.

1. HTC Vive Pro 2
2. Valve Index
3. Varjo Aero (no way too expensive)

so im stuck betwen 2 headsets 😦 it sucks balls but i dont want to drop this kind of money if i know either valve or htc are releasing a much better VR headset in the next few months. i know both these headsets are quite old at this point compared to the Aero. so im kinda stuck because i dont want to buy the Aero, its wayyyyyyy too expensive.

[haughty thistle]

The Index is like 10x better then the Vive Pro 2.
The Index has better lenses, better audio (both for you as well as the mic), a less fussy software experience and you actually get the resolution you pay for.
The Vive Pro 2 on the other hand has less Screen Door Effect and for an additional 400 bucks can be made wireless. Tho I have to tell ya, that the software, even on cable, prevents you from actually using the resolution of the headset, as auto-resolution is forced on and it goes with resolutions way below what would normally be considered viable on your system. For example on my Ryzen 9 5900X & 3090 it thought that on 90Hz I wouldn't even able to manage the res of the Reverb G2 and at 120Hz, it wouldn't even run at the Index resolution...

[cloud temple]

i wont be using the VR headsets built in audio, i'll be removing them and putting on my own headphones for much better audio than anything the headset can produce lol

im more concerned about visuals, honestly at this price, screendoor should be non-existant

which is why im leaning more towards the HTC, i think the vive still has noticeable screen door and its not something i want to have

[haughty thistle]

Oh, trust me. The Index audio is so good, you don't even want to remove it. The Mic sounds like a studio mic (no joke), and the off-ear speaker design is quite immersive. As nothing is physically touching your ears, it actually sounds like it's coming from the room around you, and they are tuned flat-line all the way down to around 60Hz. Genuine audiophile material there 👀

With the Vive, 100% you should use your own cans. They call it "Hifi Certified", but it sounds like hot garbage, both the mic and headphones. Only problem there is that it doesn't have a headphone jack, and the cavity with the USB-C Port for peripherals get's super hot. The headphone jack adapter I used overheated after about 20-30 minutes of playtime

[soft hound]

Only 24KHz though

Sad hours

[haughty thistle]

What?

Oh you mean max frequency it can play

[soft hound]

Yeah, nothing fancy

[haughty thistle]

Honestly, I've tried genuine 96kHz sound files on a device that can play up to that, and didn't hear a difference to when my DAC was set to 48kHz...

[soft hound]

Depends on what you're listening to
I've noticed a difference, though it's not a problem when in VR, since you're focusing on other things

[haughty thistle]

Not like there are any games making use of any higher quality anyways. 48kHz is the standard for DVDs, and has been for everything else since then too...

[cloud temple]

im not using a mic or the headset audio its terrible xD

[soft hound]

Index has great audio
Having headphones physically touching your head (that can fall off) is much worse than just using the built-in stuff

[haughty thistle]

Give the Index a try. Trust me, it is not. Well, it does suck if you're one of those monsters who crank the base slider on the Skullcandy Crushers 100% of the time...

[cloud temple]

im sitting at a desk

why would they fall off ?

[haughty thistle]

Because you're moving your head in VR?

[cloud temple]

barely

wait, do you guys think im actually gonna be standing around and playing beatsaber or some such thing o.O

im legit gonna be sitting at my desk, playing flight sim xD or driving sim

and my headphones have extremely good clamp

ive moved my head alot more than what im planning to do in a VR experience and they wont budge

[cloud temple]

whats skullcandy crushers?

[haughty thistle]

Crappy, overpriced headphones with vibration motors "to enhance bass" (basically destroys any sound you throw at them)

[cloud temple]

ah O.o so for kids or something ? or home theatre experience ?

[haughty thistle]

Oh for that, the Reverb G2 is a much better better option. It's cheaper then either of the two aforementioned headsets, has the best visuals out of the three, very comfortable, and the exact same sound system as is present on the Index.
The included controllers kinda suck for social VR, but if all you do is play seated experiences, that point doesn't matter

[cloud temple]

the problem with the HP reverb, i've emailed their support. it wont fit my glasses inside the cavity of the headset

[haughty thistle]

Nah. They're meant for bassheads, who don't care about anything with audio, but the low end...

[haughty thistle]

That is weird, 'cause the G2 uses basically the same facial interface as the Index (the magnetic posts are places slightly different, but the shape of the foam is the same; actually a bit stiffer foam on the G2)

[cloud temple]

its the internal width

[haughty thistle]

Internal it's the same

[cloud temple]

really o.O when i asked Valve support they said it can accomadate my glasses size, but when i emailed HP they said it can't

so clearly one of them is lying

:/

[haughty thistle]

Literally, the only difference (in terms of comfort) between the G2 and Index are that the magnetic posts on the G2 are places slightly further apart at the top and the Index has a dial to put the lenses further away from your face, tho the G2 by default has a very similar spacing to the lenses as the Index at max out detent

[cloud temple]

i would get the Reverb G2 in a heartbeat since its cheaper and has internal tracking so i dont need base stations

but they told me i can't wear my glasses inside, my glasses are too wide

[haughty thistle]

Top one is from the Index, bottom one from the G2.
If you'd ask me, the G2 should be able to accommodate wider glasses then the Index, not the other way around

I can measure them out for you, if you want

I don't know how shopping online is over where you live, but in Europe, any online retailer has to offer a 14 day return window, no questions asked. If you're unsure, buy the G2 that offers returns and try it out. If you can't use it, due to your glasses not fitting, you could then just return it. That's what these return windows are for after all

[cloud temple]

i mean my glasses are 14.2 cm wide from end to end of the frame

not sure it would fit, and thats not including the arms that bend out slightly

[lime pewter]

Ah yes…
Those with the believes of a toddler…
“Everything is excellent”

“What is the word bad”

[cloud temple]

bad usually means causing harm. but... maybe they like that?

[lime pewter]

They like their audio to sound like a “toy”

If you know what I mean

[cloud temple]

interesting

not exactly

[lime pewter]

Vibrating rumbling bass

Nothing else

[cloud temple]

like home theater experience lol

[lime pewter]

Aka razer, skullcandy, raycon, beats, etc

Basically all brands that exist

[haughty thistle]

I just measured both interfaces on the plastic side facing the lenses (should be the smallest point within the interface, as both open up towards the users face).
The Index was just under 14cm and the G2 14.4cm on the dot

[cloud temple]

interesting

G2 looking better :0

but they said to me it wouldnt fit

[haughty thistle]

Oh, and the Vive Pro (I currently only have a Pro 1, but it's interface is identical to the Pro 2) is kinda hard to measure. I did try my best and would say it's roundabout 14.5 - 15cm. Again, kinda hard to measure. If you absolutely want to be on the safe side, that's the one to go with, but like I said, using your own headphones is kinda problematic on the Pro 2, with the lack of headphone jack and the Type-C port being so hot that any adapter would overheat during any regular session. This was not a problem on the Pro 1 and Pro Eye, so I don't know how HTC could f' that up so badly (not to mention the god aweful amounts of glare those lenses have)

[haughty thistle]

What I don't know is how the G2V2 fares in that regard. HP, not too long ago, did a new revision to the G2 and one of the changes was a new interface that allows the user to remove a piece and get closer to the lenses. I don't have that revised model. What could be the case, and I have no way of verifying this, is that the new interface is slimmer to allow for the removable piece...
The G2V1 that I have certainly has a wider interface then the Index

[cloud temple]

interesting

i mean theres also no way to tell which G2 you're getting when ordering from Amazon

ordering on HP's website is worse

i can't even find the G2 normally, i have to type it in on google to get the direct page link

its like almost HP doesnt want ppl to buy it

[haughty thistle]

The G2V2 is the only model being sold nowadays...

[cloud temple]

ehh amazon tends to stock lots of stuff, wouldnt be surprised if some ppl are still getting V1s today

[haughty thistle]

Tho there are third-party interfaces available too. The G2 one from VRCover for example is slightly wider then the stock V1 interface at about 14.6cm

[cloud temple]

amazon doesnt keep their "stock" up to date with the latest revision unless theres a hazardous recall. they usually sell until their stock is empty, then restock

[rancid kestrel]

Imagine there being a way to do a firmware update on the Vive to enable newer lighthouses.

[haughty thistle]

The problem with that is that the sensors used in Lighthouse v2 Compatible devices are physically different to the ones used in v1 compatible devices. Thing is, v1 identified the two lighthouses by pulses of an LED array (they weren't just used for syncing between the two lighthouses), whereas v2 from what I was told encodes the lighthouse ID, and start of the sweep in the beam itself. V1 sensors can't read that encoded data, and thus those light sweeps of V2 lighthouses are just meaningless noise for them...

[rancid kestrel]

I understand that there are differences in the hardware that's why phrase this the way I did

[woeful breach]

What VR headset do you recomend for a beginer?

[cloud temple]

the one everyone always blindly recommends, oculus 2

[haughty thistle]

*Quest 2

[haughty thistle]

The Quest 2 is a good entry-level headset, especially if you don't have a (good enough) PC to run VR titles on.
The Pico 4 is also a great choice, but with that you'll have to keep in mind that there's only a limited selection of games running on the Pico itself. It's the better choice if you intend on mostly running games on your PC instead of on the headset itself tho.
If all you ever want to run are PC VR titles anyways, give the HP Reverb G2 a look as well. It's MSRP may be a bit higher then the other two options, but it certainly gives the best PCVR experience out of the 3. Tho keep in mind that if you intend on playing Social games like VRChat, then the Quest 2 or Pico 4 are still probably better, as the G2 controllers kinda suck for those games...

[woeful breach]

The ideia was more beatsaber!

[haughty thistle]

Beat Saber can be played on any of those Headsets using a PC, but for playing without a PC, you'll need the Quest.
Beat Games (the developers of Beat Saber) are owned by Meta, and I doubt their parent company would allow them to release the game on hardware that is not made by Meta. The existence of Beat Saber on Steam and PSVR1 is from a time before the Meta takeover...

[harsh niche]

Wait the zucc owns beatsaber??

[haughty thistle]

For a while now...

[dull tide]

Kinda regret not getting the $300 Reverb G2 but I already have a quest

[finite yarrow]

Those people whos cars vibrate the entire block of houses so you feel them before you see them go by -_-

[harsh niche]

oh dang I never heard about that

[rancid kestrel]

It's weird to think that Facebook's eventual death means Beat Saber will die.

Just means more mod usage I guess.

[gloomy crater]

I imagine they'd sell off beat games during their decline. Only instance in which beat saber would 'die' is if they declare bankruptcy while still owning the rights to the game and its iconography and refusing to sell them for whatever reason despite having no plans to utilize them or touch the game in any way in the future

[lime pewter]

You mean the like 18-26 year olds who got a tiny crappy cheap car and spent their entire budget trying to make it sound “good” aka loud and obnoxious?

[gloomy crater]

I am currently playing with something dangerous

If you know you know

[rancid kestrel]

I plan on getting a nicer car than those people will ever want to buy. :V

[rancid kestrel]

I feel like the way Zuck is doing things he will sink it with the rest of the ship.

[oak wyvern]

should i get a used quest 2 for 230$ or should i save up for a pico 4?

[slate spindle]

decided to make the jump to pc beat saber today from using the quest 2 version since august as my wifi couldnt handle it back then. I have to play on low bit rate now though as the signal is weak apparently, even though i literally play facing a wireless ap but at least i can record pretty videos now. oh and if anyone could tell me how to get the avatar to show in videos in thirdperson it would be great

[harsh niche]

don't you need full body tracking to have the avatar show up?

[slate spindle]

dont think so. i just want something simple like the multiplayer avatars to be there so its not just weird empty space like in the video above

[leaden ruin]

its a mod

i saw it somewhere in that modloader thing that can install all the mods you need

[edgy trench]

So the motherboard I got today has a 2.5gig port.

I'm wondering if any of you guys know of any wifi routers (or router and AP combos).

That would be capable of running such high speeds.

There's the ubiquiti 2.5g AP but that's pretty expensive tbh.

Also I'm looking into a USB over WiFi solution to get around the arbitrary software limit of 100mbps that virtual desktop has.

[edgy trench]

There are wireless HDMI extenders
Could possibly hijack them to make simple HDMI to USB converters at both ends but that came be too much work

The quest 2 is built on Android so if there is a solution that works with Android it should work for me as well

[edgy trench]

Yeah I don't think HDMI extenders are going to work.

They have device identification signals sent so the extenders could just not turn on for lack of a device being detected

https://steamcommunity.com/app/382110/discussions/0/2785991200438186526/

According to the developer of virtual desktop it's because the quest 2 is unable to handle higher than 100mbps while sending back data

[weak bluff]

for Quest and Pico use you won't be able to use full 2.5Gig port due to no full display access and performance limitation

AMD max like 150mbps and Nvidia 200Mbps

iirc

so a gigabit router is more than enough

Quest, Pico and other wireless headset (except HTC wireless adapter) are not designed for native PCVR so it uses band aid solution by sending compressed videos over network which requires way less bandwidth at cost of latency and performance spend encoding and decoding

[weak bluff]

that post is old but still little relevance

[haughty thistle]

The Quest also needs to be able to decode the stream coming from the PC, which actually is what forms a hard 500MBit/s maximum bandwidth you could run the Quest at, but at anything beyond 200 it get's hella unstable, because PC hardware can't keep up with the encoding 👀

As Menaced said, the practical bandwidth limit for the Quest is somewhere areopun 200-250 for Nvidia, and there's a hard limit of 150 on AMD, because of their lesser Encoding performance...

[oak wyvern]

i was going to buy this vr but i’m pretty sure it has cracked games should i buy it for 240$

@haughty thistle

[edgy trench]

Oh, why thank you for letting me know.

My current wifi router CPU is struggling with the bandwidth. Any recommendations?
I was thinking of getting a WiFi 6e wifi router.

This is my personal network because well, I pay for the internet XD. But the one I have was a $100 TP link and I'm getting lag spikes and dropped frames consistently

[sullen linden]

Any way to save power on my quest 2? I think the battery is a little shot after a year of constant use

[edgy trench]

I would say that you could probably just get a battery bank and stick in your pocket.

The new power update that we've been occasionally been getting for the press. 2. Can also attribute to lower battery life

I got the elite battery strap but more so for the weight balance.

There are some third party headstraps that would probably be better

If you used a USB cable for VR, you can get a powered USB hub

[weak bluff]

I am not so expert on routers

As long it has gigabit ports and support at least 5Ghz i can only hope it can run

Some router can be improved with custom firmware like padavan or openwrt to free off cpu issues

Or to get best in class build own router out of old PC

[sullen linden]

I hope someone makes a software that turns quest 2 into strictly pcvr headset

[vagrant furnace]

my freind has a vr and i dont playing games is funny as hell though i just see his character doing random dances and stuff while were like shooting zombies etc lol

[sullen linden]

What

[weak bluff]

You cant because of hardware limitation

At best you can bypass Oculus software making it almosy native SteamVR headset using OculusKiller

[kindred spade]

nope not at all, just know if you dont it will only track your arms and head.. obviously, also I would recomend using a mod called Nalaluna Avatars instead of the CustomAvatars mod, its more efficient because it uses the much more optimised .vrm style avatar instead of the special file type for customavatars

[kindred spade]

what mods are you using to capture this? Camera2 id assume?

[slate spindle]

yeah camera2

[kindred spade]

alright then youll need a secondary mod for your avatars such as CustomAvatars or NalalunaAvatars
Nala is a not free but in my experience far better in terms of quality and overall performance over CustomAvatars

[slate spindle]

ok cool. thank you!

[kindred spade]

of course

[rancid kestrel]

How the heck are you supposed to resynchronize yourself after you drop a note with stuff like the end of Free Bird? That's one of my bigger struggles.

[kindred spade]

now if im not mistaken that free bird map is just a bunch of bottom row streams right?

and with shit like that if you fall off it then well it just kinda sucks.. the only thing I can say is its okay to miss a few notes to get back on it.

is it this one?https://beatsaver.com/maps/2ba15

[rancid kestrel]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2233132/Beat_Saber__Lynyrd_Skynyrd__Free_Bird/
This one.

Steam

Beat Saber - Lynyrd Skynyrd - "Free Bird"

Get the track 'Free Bird' by Lynyrd Skynyrd and slash the beats! This track is part of the Rock Mixtape, brought to you by MCA Records, Universal Music Enterprises.

Price

$1.99

[kindred spade]

oh ew its an ost map

[rancid kestrel]

Yeah giving Facebook money is gross but the game likes them better.

[kindred spade]

but like

can get free maps

without giving meta a dime

[rancid kestrel]

Yeah but mods make Beat Saber unhappy.

[kindred spade]

depends on mods

as long as specs are okay youll be fine

espeically if you just want custom songs

I really dont understand how people play unmodded and still like the game

[rancid kestrel]

You could be less judgemental too.

:V

[kindred spade]

:P

once you go modded you dont go back

[rancid kestrel]

I did.

I'd rather not have the game break.

[kindred spade]

ill admit it can be finicky but but as long as you make sure mods are conflicting with each other or have mods that are up to date itll be fine

[gloomy crater]

Yeah I literally can't play unmodded anymore. Can't hit crap without my custom sabers, even though there's no actual difference between normal sabers and modded ones, the modded ones feel longer, so I am more confident with my swings

That and songs really need mapping extensions and lighting mods to reach their maximum potential

I bought a bunch of the OST tracks when I had a quest 1 back in 2020, but I was unimpressed. I sold my account with all those songs on it along with that console. So now that I'm on PC and know how to use mapping tools, I can just watch videos of people playing the OST charts on youtube and then chart the exact same chart as a custom song in MMA and play the exact same track without paying meta a dime.

[dull tide]

https://youtu.be/2TCXonMN1dA

[gilded sapphire]

I made it to 4:30 on expert, it’s so hard

[rancid kestrel]

I didn't find that part to be too bad.

[hushed niche]

do vr headsets require a pc and if so a high end one?

[haughty thistle]

There are standalone headsets that don't require a PC, tho at a much reduced visual quality; think of those like VR consoles. Headsets like the Quest 2 & Pro as well as the Pico 4 are a few examples (there's also the Vive Focus 3 and now XR Elite, but they're geared towards companies and thus have barely any games).
For playing VR on PCs, yes, you do need a decently powerful PC (recommended minimum GPU is around RTX 2060 power with at minimum 6GB of VRAM). Especially if running it with a standalone headset as then the PC doesn't just need to render the game, but also compress the image and send it off via Wifi or USB...

[hushed niche]

ahh ok i should be fine since i have a rx6600 any decent vr headsets that are for pc?

[haughty thistle]

Basically any VR headset can be used with a PC. The usually recommendations for new headsets are the Pico 4, Quest 2 or Reverb G2. The G2 out of those 3 is the best PCVR headset, but it can only run games with a PC and it's controllers aren't the greatest for social VR titles like VRChat. The Quest 2 on the other hand has a really strong standalone eco-system, but certainly can play PCVR as well. The Pico 4 is kinda like an in-between. It doesn't have as many standalone titles, but has better hardware then the Quest 2 giving it an edge in PCVR usage.
You can save a buck however going on the used market. The Rift CV1 has by far the best controllers ever made, but it has a massive cable issue (where the cable breaks in the back and since it's proprietary and no longer made, really hard to get). The original Vive and Vive Pro 1 are also a decent options. The Vive controllers kinda suck, but the low resolution of the OG Vive is perfect for lower end PCs, and they're by far the cheapest entry way into the lighthouse eco system (the same tracking system used by the Index controllers)...

[weak bluff]

can you get 3060 instead?

[kindred spade]

god i have an addiction o this game.. i wish ltt would host an event given linus plays sabers himself

[deft horizon]

The best mix from New Years Eve in VRChat https://youtu.be/SrxOg7ZmBnk

[hushed niche]

why lol

barely better and £100 more

[weak bluff]

Terrible drivers

https://babeltechreviews.com/vr-wars-the-red-devil-rx-6600-xt-showdown-with-the-rtx-3060/

And runs better than 6600 XT

Like really

[hushed niche]

i didnt know vr had drivers lol

[weak bluff]

I have 6600 XT myself

And have to suffer on 8 months old drivers

[hushed niche]

my gpu has good enough performance so no point

if im paying £300 for a gpu might aswell save up for a £500 one like 6800

[weak bluff]

Sure then just have to accept it then

[weak bluff]

Anything running gpu needs driver

[hushed niche]

i guess so

never ever had problems with something because old drivers tho

[weak bluff]

I have problems with new drivers

Thats why i use old drivers

Very old

It also sucks if you try to stream on Quest or Pico using H.264

[hushed niche]

i dont think ill be getting a vr headset rn anyways

bit too expensive

[weak bluff]

Then you are more than enough i guess

Just stay on driver 22.5.1

22.11.2 broke my game

VRChat specifically

[hushed niche]

ive been using it for like 2 months lol

[weak bluff]

But then why are you asking in #virtual-reality

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hushed niche]

..... i was asking what vr headsets are decent to see prices lol

[weak bluff]

Sure what is your budget

[hushed niche]

i already looked and it was too much for me rn lol

[weak bluff]

Try look for used Quest 2 they can be great value

[hushed niche]

[wraith inlet]

what are you talking about

I see that the 6600 XT is matching if not better than the RTX 3060 in most of those games

[weak bluff]

And 6600 XT suppose to be between 3060 and 3060Ti in flat screen games

But they are bit worse than 6600 XT in VR

i did not consider local prices so i asked if 3060 was possible to get ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[wraith inlet]

its likely that the 3060 would be may more expensive anyway

[weak bluff]

Likely thats why i asked

[wraith inlet]

and also consider that the review is 16 months old

so performance couldve improved both on a driver side and a game side

[weak bluff]

Yeah and i can be sure that it does not change much

Because i am using 22.5.1 right now just to play games

An 8 month old driver

Fine wine is real

Just takes ridiculous long

[wraith inlet]

not just "finewine" but also game optimization updates

[weak bluff]

And 22.11.2 the "recommended" gets 10-30% flat screen improvement

[wraith inlet]

No Man's Sky is constantly updated for instance, and it has FSR2 so you could try it in VR

[weak bluff]

In VR may be less and even so still little

I would not trust amd improving drivers they do for what is on spotlight most 1 game fix is a thing

There is issue of hardware priority too

7900 XT gets exclusive 22.12.2 update while rest still dont get it

This slow fix cycle will continue and that long you might as well just get something reliable

[wraith inlet]

im not talking about the drivers right now'

[weak bluff]

If its not driver issue then nvidia cards benefit too?

[wraith inlet]

true, that will happen with game updates
but if the 6600 XT is better than the 3060 at flat screen, why not get it for vr even if it performs worse?

VR is quite malleable for performance tuning

[weak bluff]

That is what i am doing and still quite sucks

Cant use latest driver features like voice filter, latest encoding update

And the person in question

Was asking for 6600 not 6600 XT

[wraith inlet]

even cheaper

[pale orbit]

https://youtu.be/dYHhVfcaXFA

[kindred spade]

oh yea my 3060ti will to that perfectllyyyyyy

[steep violet]

I know amd isn’t too hot when it comes to vr but does anyone know a way to combat the awful screen tearing I have

I have an rx 6600, my 1650 I had prior never did this

Steam vr performance graph doesn’t seem to imply I am skipping frames or anything

[valid wave]

spot on, but you missed something important

rendering issues are simple enough to handle, i'm sure most games for PSVR1 just used an API to alter virtual camera IPD and lens distortion

but none of them would be able to take advantage of the higher resolution display

or the eye tracking or haptics

most are capped at 1080p or lower render resolution

and many are capped at 60 fps but reprojected to 120

sony knows that VR is a risky product to launch, nowhere near as safe as a new console

and a good chunk of people buying the PS VR2 are gonna be brand new to VR

and if their first experience with their shiny new $550 headset they just bought is mostly with blurry games from 5 years ago that don't take advantage of most of the tech in the headset, they're gonna come away from it with a bad taste in their mouth

is no BC shitty for the consumer? yeah

but what percentage of people buying the PS VR2 already have games for the VR1?

and how many people is that?

you'll wanna read about this too i assume

[weak bluff]

you scrolled far just to answer that lol

[valid wave]

yup lmao

anyways,

it doesn't make sense for the PS VR2, which is meant to be a high-end VR headset, to have most of its software library be outdated blurry games that don't use its tech

considering how different the two platforms are, i'm almost surprised sony actually did implement BC on PS5

i assume the only reason they did is because they know what kind of backlash they would've had if they didn't

[haughty thistle]

Also, PS4 and PS5 are much closer in hardware then what marketing might make you assume. Yes, the platform is different, but in the core they're both using x86 and AMD Radeon graphics. Some optimisations meant for the PS4 might backfire on the PS5 due to different code-pathways, but implement those APIs into the BC environment and as far as the game is concerned, it's running on an overclocked PS4 Pro...

[kindred spade]

what headset are you using?

[steep violet]

Quest 2 in normal link mode

[kindred spade]

hmmm

do you have a different cable you could try? Thats the first thing I would suspect

[kindred spade]

after some research are you positive you are plugging into a usb 3.0 port?

[steep violet]

My cable is good, using 3.2 port

[kindred spade]

next I would suggest updating your driving if you havent already

I know amd drivers dont play nice with meta

also this

im not sure what youve already tried so im sorry if I suggest something youve already done

[steep violet]

if anything I would have to roll them back

[kindred spade]

hmm i saw an artical about this but it was from a year ago so i assumed that amd had fixed it since then but maybe not

[valid wave]

it's definitely not an issue of PS5 being able to render PS VR1 games, considering it already does that without a problem

[haughty thistle]

You can run PSVR1 titles on a PS5, it just requires a PSVR1 headset

[valid wave]

but the problem is that it's not possible for sony to force PS4 games to render at 2000x2040 per eye

especially since i'd assume most of those games have a hard coded render resolution

[haughty thistle]

I was more talking about general PlayStation BC in that comment and not really referring to BC with PSVR

[valid wave]

yeah i see that now

but i'm saying that it doesn't seem that far fetched of a reality where sony didn't allow BC on PS5 and forced devs to release new versions that take advantage of all the new tech on the PS5

but if they did then the PS5 would have fuck all software at launch, and we'd be in a world where we'd have to pay just to access the games we already own and have paid for

a large proportion of people buying the PS VR2 are gonna be people that have never owned a PS VR1 and thus have no games for it, and aren't gonna complain much about not having BC

[valid wave]

@haughty thistle if you were one of those people (who never owned a PS VR1, or even used any VR headset), why would you want to buy games that don't make full use of the $550 hardware you payed for?

[rancid kestrel]

Has someone hacked Wii Sports/Wii Sports Resort/Switch Sports in an emulator for proper 6 DOF controller tracking and VR?

[strange ibex]

On the 7950X3D https://youtu.be/ULEWnENfDXc
So apparently its 5.0 Ghz with 3D V-cache And 5.7 single thread on the CCD without 3DV-cache. This is why the 7800X3D is only 5.0GHz because it has only one CCD

[weak bluff]

perfect for games having issues with CCD affinity

[lime pewter]

Ugh… the obnoxious thumbnail ofc

[rapid otter]

Classic Frame chasers

I hate this YouTube channel, a really bad source of information

[acoustic night]

Has anyone messed with stereoscopic 3d recently? Nvidia killled off the feature in their drivers

Im trying to understand what all the modes are, SBS is obvious, the others are weird

[rapid otter]

You should watch Linus vid about it

If you plan on playing games you'd certainly need some king of mod as they don't include 3D directly anymore

If you want to use Nvidia 3d vision you may need an older Gpu that has said drivers

[deft horizon]

VRChat is a fever dream that runs at 45 FPS

[valid wave]

45? good luck with that

[deft horizon]

I don't play on Quest

[valid wave]

still

[deft horizon]

Meanwhile people on Quest have told me they get 15

But often I'm sitting at around 45 due to the shit Oculus does

[valid wave]

oh you can turn that off pretty easy

[deft horizon]

I know how to

I'm too lazy to

[valid wave]

just pin the app to your taskbar lol

[deft horizon]

I'll do it some day

[valid wave]

it's also good for getting actual realtime performance metrics

cause steam vr's performance graph isn't always accruate

[lime pewter]

The type of thumbnail makes me want to beat them up more than watch it, so idk about information
but I already hate it just seeing that face (just like the 5 trillion other channels with pog face, arrows and titles with 0 information so you click)

while I don't know why exactly, pog face and similar "expressions" and so on makes me sick in the same way your usual tiktok user and loud screaming streamer does (or a certain mukbang youtuber currently being extremely disgusting for views)

[rapid otter]

Well he shares a lot about overclocking but he tends to say bullshit and generally doesn't provide anything useful

And yeah his thumbnails are absolutely atrocious

[strange ibex]

Man creates custom mixed reality headset on linux just for cosplay https://youtu.be/503SKHSzPWc

[keen igloo]

ive got a question for the vr people, is it worth it to look into buying a quest 2 if i have a quest 1 already just for better resolution? i mostly play steam vr via virtual desktop and everything is great i just wish things werent quite as blurry in every game because thats what ruins my immersion. so is that enough of a reason to buy an updgrade? Probably would have to be a used one on ebay, main question is if the difference in resolution is worth the money

[haughty thistle]

The Pico 4 and Reverb G2 might also be worth looking into if all you do is play games using SteamVR. I've tried both and found the G2 the superior of the two headset wise (as-in more comfortable, slightly better image sharpness, better audio). But with the Pico 4 being standalone (like the Quest 2), you'd obviously retain the ability to play games wirelessly and the Pico 4 controllers are certainly much better then those of the Reverb G2. Keep in mind however that the Quest and Pico Stores aren't cross-buy, so anything you've bought for the Quest (including Virtual Desktop) has to be re-bought for the Pico unfortunatly...

Lastly, Meta is working on a successor to the Quest 2 (probably going to be named Quest 3), which so far sounds like an overall upgrade to the Quest 2 in basically all regards. Just throwing some more options out there.
Personally I didn't find the Quest 2 to be much of an upgrade over the Quest 1 for PCVR. You loose the contrast and colors from the OLEDs, and also because of the lack of stepless IPD adjustment on the Quest 2, you'll probably not get as good of a lens alignment as you might've with the Quest 1 leading to an out of focus image (unless your IPD perfectly matches either the 60, 64 and 68mm IPD setting). It's a matter of choice really, which is why I'm mentioning all these other options as well

and I forgot, the Pico 4 is currently only available in Europe and Japan

[keen igloo]

ok so maybe just stick with what i have if its working well

[gilded sapphire]

What’s the best stand alone (no light houses needed) FBT

I play on quest

So no vive trackers

[weak bluff]

Then you should try SlimeVR for best quality

alternatively HaritoraX which is bit worse more wire but available faster

[hollow sphinx]

virtualboy

[strange ibex]

Sony is releasing something but the best FBT-standalone will be using multiple quest pro controllers if Meta actually ends up supporting that, but that will be expensive $135 per controller

If they make feet trackers with camera though it could be cost competitive

[pale orbit]

https://twitter.com/UploadVR/status/1612588788689018880

UploadVR (@UploadVR)

Meta is ending updates for Quest 1 this year and cutting the headset off from built-in social features.

https://t.co/ecf0W0xD9D

Twitter · Jan 9, 2023, 11:15 PM

[finite yarrow]

Bought a quest 1 as my first headset with this day in mind. Question now is, do we own a brick or fun homebrew toy?

[haughty thistle]

Nope. Games will still be playable. All they basically said is, that the Q1 will only receive Bugfixes from now, and all Meta Horizon Features will drop Q1 support starting in March

Here's the official statement from Meta:

[slate spindle]

Hurt my wrist playing beat saber. No fun for me for 3 weeks now 😔

[gilded sapphire]

The end of an era

[weak bluff]

hopefully Meta allows unlocking bootloader on Quest 1 like Oculus Go had

[gilded sapphire]

I hope when the quest 3 comes out we can simulate quest 3 hardware or better on the quest 2 (using PCVR) but keep the quest 3 software

[valid wave]

i mean

[weak bluff]

its cross compatible there is no need to simulate

[valid wave]

the quest 2 is still pretty much the same era

[gilded sapphire]

Yeah

[valid wave]

of standalone being the "norm" for vr

[haughty thistle]

The unlocked bootloader on the Go was likely Carmacks doing. He no longer works at Meta tho...

[weak bluff]

that is really bad news

[gilded sapphire]

I mean they make you disconnect the quest 2 controllers to connect pro controllers to the quest so I find this unlikely

[weak bluff]

yeah because people with 4 hands should not get their rights

[worldly lily]

Is it worth getting a pico neo 4 over a quest 2 for pcvr and no a wired headset is not possible

[haughty thistle]

Certainly. Tho, if you want to do just PCVR and don't really care about social VR (like VRChat), then give the Reverb G2 a look as well.
In my experience it's significantly more comfortable, has better audio and a slightly sharper image.
The Pico 4 on the other hand does have wireless and it has the better controllers, but it's PCVR capabilities are only really good when using Virtual Desktop for PC streaming. The official Pico utility is absolute trash (both in functionality and image quality)

Mind you, my biggest pain point with the Pico 4 is the rock hard back pad, which isn't replacable

[worldly lily]

Thanks I can't afford the G2 with wireless but I want to know what do you mean by not carrying about socal vr?

[weak bluff]

If you dont play social vr games

Games where you know

socialize

[worldly lily]

Why would that matter when picking the G2?

[haughty thistle]

The controllers for the Quest an Pico have touch sensors in the face buttons and trigger and games like VRchat make heavy use of those touch sensors for controlling hand gestures. The controllers for the G2 lack said sensors, and thus doing any gestures in those games are basically impossible. The good new is that basically no normal game makes use of said touch sensors

The G2 btw doesn't have a wireless option, and from what I know it also goes on sale ever so often

[weak bluff]

You cant do gestures in WMR?

[haughty thistle]

With the normal WMR controllers behaving like Vive wands, no. And with the G2 controllers you still can, it's just a msssive pain...

[strange ibex]

4 limbs

[worldly lily]

Is there any other glaring problems with the pico4 and pcvr?

[weak bluff]

You have to rely on wifi

Which is a hit or miss if you dont have good networking

Or cable

Small issue and can be fixed

[strange ibex]

Pimax updates and issues(Lighthouse tracking, lens issue) Lighthouse tracking face plate is $200 https://youtu.be/gcBrU8yn_08

[weak bluff]

I just want oled and high fov

Stop lighthouse based vr

[strange ibex]

I believe they already have inside out tracking and snapdragon controllers

[weak bluff]

The sword controller is expensive and does not even have finger tracking

[strange ibex]

They arent using tge sword controller watch the vid

The sword controller isnt what snapdragon released their on controller is based on that

[gloomy crater]

I'd only ever consider a full switch to inside out tracking if a company manages to do it right

Which may be valve, you never know

[valid wave]

wdym by do it right? inside out tracking is excellent on oculus headsets, and sounds like it'll also be great on the psvr2

[gloomy crater]

I have never used inside out tracking that doesn't feel like my hands are immersed in jelly

There is noticeable delay between the movement of my hands and the movement of whatever hand equivalent is present in whatever game or program I'm using. This has been the case on every single ISO tracked headset I've used, but hasn't ever been the case on any base station tracked headset I've used. I've heard the only controllers that don't really have this issue are the new quest pro controllers because they're essentially acting as their own positioning systems instead of relying on other components to do it, but I've never used the pro controllers so I wouldn't know.

[valid wave]

that's.. quite strange

it seems you might just be more latency prone as an individual

i find the inside out tracking on the rift s to be pretty amazing at both latency and reliability

[gloomy crater]

That might be the case. If it were only certain headsets then I'd write it off as a bad tracking algorithm but it's been the same on the Rift S, Quest 1, Quest 2, and Reverb G2. But not on the Vive or Index.

When I got my first headset, a quest 1, it felt like there was no delay at all. But over time I began to notice the controllers falling behind on my hand movements and I ended up spending tons of time just waving my hands around and watching them to see if I was crazy or not. Over time, the delay went from completely unnoticeable to now being almost impossible to ignore. So I'd prefer the next big headset that falls into the spotlight have at least some sort of base station support, but still be wireless cause that's the most annoying part about the index

that and the resolution, but eh

[valid wave]

almost sounds like a placebo effect

whereby you thinking that there's latency increases your perception of it

but idk

[gloomy crater]

Yeah maybe. But I've done the same thing with my Index controllers and never been able to notice any latency. My family members who own headsets say I'm crazy, and that there's no latency at all on the quest or quest 2. But they're also completely unable to read (much less play) beat saber charts over 5 notes per second so I assume that has something to do with it

[tight elk]

Hey whenever I try to do pcvr on my oculus the link cable works for a few seconds and crashes

My pc is more than pcvr ready

[devout trail]

Yeah that is definitely you noticing the actual latency. I have the same issue when I use my quest 1 or 2 compared to my OG rift. I can do much better on the rift versus using a quest 1 or 2. They use software on the quest 2 to "guess" where your hands are based on the rotation and velocity of what your movements are in app/game and I can even feel that effect on the quest 2 quite a bit. Unless the Quest Pro's new tracking system inside the controllers alleviates all of that I'm in the same boat as no ISO tracking headset will compare to base station/lighthouse tracking.

[grand acorn]

should i get the valve index or wait for the new one they mite make

[gloomy crater]

Definitely don't pay full price for the index if that's what you're asking

and also be prepared to pay big money for valve's next HMD if you plan on waiting

[haughty thistle]

I found that jelly effect to only appear when using the Quest or Pico in PCVR mode. The latency from the compression and all combined with the motion prediction to counteract that latency seems to lead to this jelly movement effect
At least in my perception...

[gloomy crater]

Yeah it gets especially bad when that compression is running

[haughty thistle]

Like Menaced already said, you'd have to rely on Wifi, which not just can be hit or miss (as in, you'll want a dedicated router just for the Pico, and with tons of 5GHz around even that might not work well). But it can also be like one day it works fine, the next you get tons of jitter and framedrops.
Happened to me no joke yesterday. It was working all fine the days before, but yesterday when playing around with the Pico the FPS felt more like 30 then 90, but neither VD nor SteamVR said there were any. This is btw a problem with all headsets that don't use a native display connection (Quest, Pico, Vive Focus, Vive XR Elite)

[gloomy crater]

I hate how right now, standalone = no native display connection. Surely since it means that big of a performance difference there has to be SOMEONE willing to put the work into making it compatible

[valid wave]

there's plenty of people in the pc vr community who'd love to make it happen, but it's unlikely to

yes it would bring considerable improvements to latency, image quality, and game performance

but enabling native PC compatibility first off requires an uncompressed video input port on the quest 2... which it doesn't have

could oculus have simply put a thunderbolt port on the quest 2? yes

[gloomy crater]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean future headsets couldn't be designed with that in mind

[valid wave]

why didn't they?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[valid wave]

correcty

there 's no real reason to not support native PC VR compatibility

it does nothing but degrade the user experience

just... put a port on the headset

[gloomy crater]

Probably because that would have costed extra, and they don't really care about PCVR sales anyway so why make the experience any better. They don't manufacture PCVR headsets anymore, so they shouldn't really. However, if they did have it as an option to give people an easier time on PC, it might encourage them to stick with the Q2 instead of switching to a dedicated PCVR rig made by a competitor

[valid wave]

...how much does an HDMI port cost?

[gloomy crater]

Sorry I meant it would have costed extra to go from a USBC port to a thunderbolt port

[valid wave]

ahh

royalties

[gloomy crater]

yep

[valid wave]

but they probably would use thunderbolt if anything to smooth out the experience

interested to see how the PS VR2's cable connects to the headset

[gloomy crater]

So hear me out: if the deckard patents are to be believed, valve has had this idea to have a modular HMD similar to HTC's new one for a while now

Which got me thinking, Oculus have two entire stores worth of games. Buying beat saber on the oculus store for PC to play on a rift S doesn't buy you a copy that can be played on the Quest or Quest 2. So there have got to be separate builds of the games, ones for the PCVR store, which can leverage PC hardware's capabilities better, and ones for the Quest store which are optimized for standalone hardware

So, if anyone were to attempt to take on Oculus' current domination of the standalone space, valve could probably do it. All they'd have to do is allow devs to optimize their game to run on standalone hardware, and they could essentially offer peoples' entire steam libraries on a standalone device without the separation, just as long as the games have been certified to be optimized for standalone first.

[valid wave]

oh, like a vr headset that could double as a virtual theatre for a steam deck?

[gloomy crater]

So imagine this: there could be a headset that starts out as just a dummy HMD, like an index for example. All it really does is display a picture and track its own position. It doesn't do controller tracking and it doesn't do hand tracking. You'd have to use base stations and a PC to play games. Probably would also be natively wired out of the box. This would be the lowest level base model of the headset

Then, there could be upgrade modules you slap onto it. One for inside out tracking, a wigig module for wireless display, and heck, maybe even an entire additional standalone SOC ala a more refined version of the steam deck's which would give you standalone capabilities for use with no PC as long as people have optimized their games for it

[gloomy crater]

I actually hadn't thought about that but that's a good idea

[weak bluff]

valve does not care competing with Oculus

Valve just wants to fill market parts that is enough to convince vr is not dead including high end low profitable ones

their goal is for you to use steamvr not compete or compete as lesser priority

as usual it would make sense for them to make headset in completely different league with no competition but evolve VR

[haughty thistle]

And to put in my 2c regarding why Standalone devices don't have a native DP in, it's not just the extra cost to implement DP-Alt-Mode onto the USB-C port, but it would also cut into standalone sales more.
Think about it. If a device can run PCVR much better then it can play its own games, then who'd pay for the games that run on the device if their PC is more then capable to run them better, all without any degradation to the image.
I doubt there's barely anyone who bought a Pico Neo 3 Link and actually use it's standalone capabilities. The Neo 3 Link btw is the only standalone HMD that I'm aware of that has native DP-Alt-Mode support

[weak bluff]

there is another issue for Meta

most Quest 2 users play free to play games or PCVR

Oculus has so much potential to be a console platform instead meta pushed hard for social media bs

[gloomy crater]

We just need to pull an insulin and start making open source VR headsets ourselves. Then we can just add whatever features we want

but then HMDs would kinda be like cars lol

'oh your rig has conical lenses? That's so last year, I installed pancake lenses six months ago' 'you've gotta get this aftermarket face tracking module bro it's like half the price of the retail ones'

Speaking of which, I haven't had the chance to look at all the news coming out, did Somnium actually speak at CES or did they just show up to demo the Somnium One devkit? All it says on their site is where their booth was

[weak bluff]

there have been attempts

then it got abandoned

see Relativty VR

https://www.relativty.com/

maybe be a hero and fix that yourself

[gloomy crater]

Welp, I guess Somnium will be the next corpse on that pile if that's the case

Right next to Deca

[weak bluff]

Unlike those things relativty is open source

Anyone can pick up and fix it

[weak bluff]

https://mixed-news.com/en/intel-brings-direct-pc-vr-streaming-without-router-or-dongle-for-meta-quest/

or they can just

displayport passthrough

[haughty thistle]

VRgenieers (their main partner) had a demo unit behind a display case, as well as a box which showed off the passthrough (basically the user facing part like lenses and facial interface on one side, and the cameras on the other)

[haughty thistle]

Tbh it sounds more like optimized driver paths on Intel Wifi Chips for Air Link.
Proper wireless DP would require a bandwidth the likes can only provide WiGig 2...

[weak bluff]

its a tech exclusive on 13th gen HX CPU for now

using 2 bands wifi to double bandwidth and passthrough better

[weak bluff]

or use like what peakdo wireless hdmi did
but still expensive tho

[haughty thistle]

That was literally WiGig

[haughty thistle]

Doubt adding extra bands helps at all. VD alreadyaxes out at 150Mbit/s, which is far below the maximum capabilities of regular 5GHz Wifi anyways...

[weak bluff]

Double Connect Technology

actually not doubel bandwidth

just extra channels

the big end result is lower latency

[haughty thistle]

The problem with Wifi Hotspots is that the bandwidth is limited by how well your CPU can keep up with routing the packets. I learned that the hard way when I was trying to get the Pico working on my Laptop without using my dedicated router. Bandwidth is all over the place the moment there's any load on the CPU

[weak bluff]

and this is so weird about Meta working with Intel so do they want PCVR or not

[haughty thistle]

And yes, I did make sure the laptop wasn't connected to Wifi

[weak bluff]

is htc wireless adapter wigig?

[haughty thistle]

Sure is. But it also uses a USB whitelist to only allow for Vive Headsets to be used with it

[pale orbit]

AX411

about $30-40 for a card

[haughty thistle]

I'm sure with a bit of FW engineering that whitelist can be mitigated, but then you'd still need an adapter from HTCs proprietary DP+USB+12V connecter to whatever HMD you wanna connect to it. The top HDMI is only as good as is needed by the OG Vive

[weak bluff]

if Quest uses USB for streaming but USB can connect either CPU or South Bridge before CPU do i theorically get lower latency on some USB port?

[haughty thistle]

Nope. Because the image has to be compressed anyways, which is the lion share of the latency. The link between Chipset and CPU is light speed in comparison...

[deep epoch]

Anyone encountered an issue with Valve Index where the game will stutter violently and then freeze on a single frame?

[weak bluff]

https://mixed-news.com/en/new-details-about-the-meta-quest-3-display/

Quest 3 single panel

Again

If true it means we may have variable FOV and probably low FOV

[haughty thistle]

Good to know that Meta can only build good stuff, if it's crazy expensive (Rift CV1, Quest Pro) 👍

[lime pewter]

as it is meta we're talking about
I wouldn't call anything from them "good"
just because of software, hardware sure
but ain't calling meta's software good

[rustic garnet]

The cv1 wasn't even that expensive?

[haughty thistle]

True. Cross that "crazy"

[rustic garnet]

Yeah didn't they end up selling it for like 400 bucks with touch

[weak bluff]

Started $799 but by the time when it was $399, Rift S and Quest was out and CV1 discontinued production

[haughty thistle]

Also, when Facebook back in the day did the price cut on the CV1, they not only cut the price, but also the production quality. The Touch bundle came with a much cheaper, significantly less comfortable facial interface, it lacked the Xbox Controller and Oculus Remote (the latter being required for some very early CV1 experiences), and the overall unboxing experience was like a cheap knock-off of the original CV1 box, which was much more like an Apple Product.
I've got both (one I bought for spare parts and the other I bought to actually use), and I was lucky to find an original CV1 new old stock on the used market for a pretty fair price. It certainly was a much better unboxing experience. Tho granted, that's a one-time thing while the general experience with a third-party facial interface is basically the same...

[pale orbit]

https://youtu.be/59Qmt2p5djw?t=234

[balmy ferry]

If you're still looking for an answer I can help. I have a 5800x3D and a 3060 and before I got the 5800x3d I had a 5600x. Cpu frame times dropped from 40-50ms to around 10-15ms and my framerate jumped to about 70 while I was in the black cat world staring at a mirror. With the 5600x it used to be about 30-40

Unity loves cache. And the cache helps with the strain from the avatars. The 5800x3d put my gpu up to 90-96% utilization instead of the 60-70% it used to get

But yea Vrchat is very content oriented when it comes to performance so my experience could differ from someone else's but

I found a nice reddit post about the 5800x3d and vrchat with a 3090ti

https://www.reddit.com/r/VRchat/comments/w01cqz/5800x3d_vrchat_holy_smokes/&ved=2ahUKEwjgsa-DicP8AhWpFFkFHQYOAdcQjjh6BAgQEAE&sqi=2&usg=AOvVaw3fvjkybza5miE531WZeljx

[weak bluff]

Read the Tupper blog for more

https://tupper.notion.site/The-Current-Best-PC-For-VRChat-0636cbf57062499e80f02554afda2be4

[balmy ferry]

Nice.

Good find didn't know that existed

I haven't gone past the 3060 only cause it's fine for everything I play outside of vr and the 12 gigs even though it's slower memory takes longer to fill and I haven't had any issues since my cpu swap with vrchat

My gpu memory get to about 10 gigs used

Another game that loves L3 cache is escape from tarkov. 5800x3d destroys tarkovs cpu heaviness. I would love to get a 7000x3d chip but I don't need it in all honesty

I need a better gpu before I even think about it

[weak bluff]

7800X3D + SMT off will be good

In theory

No bench yet

[balmy ferry]

True. Lower the power draw meaning lower Temps meaning higher boosts ||in theory||

[weak bluff]

What VRChat does to my CPU

[balmy ferry]

Yes.

[soft hound]

Didn't expect to be pinged for a really old message, but yes, it does like cache
I'm currently waiting on the 7950X3D
My current system for VRChat is a 5900X @5.0GHz (5.15 Single) and a 3090Ti
Was debating the 5800X3D, but I need cores for other things

[balmy ferry]

Sorry for the ping on the really old message but I figured why not

[weak bluff]

Either gaming or cheap multitask pick ur poison

[balmy ferry]

True

With the 7950x3d - smt would probably be nice too

144mb of l3 cache

Kind of nice

[weak bluff]

Im gonna bet windows 11 will screw 7950X3D

[balmy ferry]

Probably

[weak bluff]

And you have to manually set affinity

Troubles

[balmy ferry]

I'm gonna pretend I know what affinity means.

Lmao

[weak bluff]

Some amd cpu comes with 2 CCD bcuz of chiplets

[balmy ferry]

Oh yea.

I remember now

[weak bluff]

If your game is trying to access to cores in other chiplet

The latency will be really bad

Sovrchat have optioj to pick specific which cores to use

[balmy ferry]

There's 8 cores on a ccd righr

Right

[weak bluff]

Not always

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[balmy ferry]

Depends on the cpu

[weak bluff]

Its a lottery

[balmy ferry]

But technically they all have 8 just some have been disabled on a hardware level

[weak bluff]

But 5800X3D all have 1 ccd so guaranteed ok

[balmy ferry]

At least with the 3000 series

[weak bluff]

Its always hardware level nowadays

[balmy ferry]

Yup

So you can't cheat and get more cores

At lower clocks

And for stability

[weak bluff]

You either dont get nice thing or accept "buy now pay later"

[balmy ferry]

I'm using affirm to pay for my 5800x3d cause I haven't had ANY credit history so I was like. CPU? And credit finally? Sweet.

It was $92 down and it's $22 and tax a month

For 12 months

[trail rune]

its amazing how terribly optimized vrchat is and then they have to go and make it worse with eac and killing the mod support

mods that literally fix it lmao

[lime pewter]

If only all games basically did what a game I used to play did
Be like “imma just build the modloader into the game”
And allowing waypoint mods, auto-… mods (such as auto fishing), etc
Basically everyone now uses waypoint mods, lots of ui mods, etc
Instead of banning basically cheating mods, making them more accessible so everyone can use it and the game better with no work

[valid wave]

i'm glad that that's pretty much what they're doing with blade & sorcery

[weak bluff]

partly true but now VRChat are implementing performance fixes that mods tried themself

like how now they allow you to hide avatar based on distance

and more graphic quality settings

you have to blame a lot on Unity itself and user made contents that lags others

one more thing they have not tried is FSR but it is also AMD and Unity to blame

FSR supports Unity 2020 and above however VRChat uses Unity 2019 and their blog they said they tried with unsatisfactory results

many people are quick to blame EAC for perf issues but a lot of performance fix from mods are being implemented to the game natively

[rapid otter]

That's quite extreme, a high lod bias would be really good without literally removing people

[weak bluff]

Why

You dont need that

You don't talk to people far away so might as well hide them

[sullen linden]

Vrc avatars are laggy as fuck

[haughty thistle]

Like 95% of Avatars on VRChat are unoptimized AF. There's your main problem with perf on VRC. Doesn't help that the VRC Avatar Ranking system sometimes recommends practices that are the opposite of helpful (like reducing the amount of Mesh renderers for toggable objects; in that case using a seperate Mesh renderer is actually the preferred way for performance)

And a number of "Performance improvement" mods actually did quite some hacky ways that aren't recommended by Valve, AMD or Unity. For example: the SteamVR FSR thingy hacks into the SteamVR interface library which can literally break support with SteamVR from one update to the next. Not to mention that FSR is supposed to be installed in a specific part of the rendering pipeline, for which the Unity Version used by VRC doesn't have a hook. So they'd have to implement it in a different part of the pipeline, which (according to AMD) can result less favorably results with FSR, not to mention that the performance benefits could be nullified by that approach.
The VRC devs also played around with an Nvidia Solution, which would work with Unity 2019, but it has been discontinued and Nvidia actually advises against using it, as it can break certain engine features, and support for it might be dropped with future driver Updates (which is why VRC didn't end up implementing it into any Beta, despite having shared demos for it)

[sullen linden]

Vrc avatars are more unoptimized than cyberpunk at release

[deep epoch]

Is there a way for me to log my headsets response times

I know you can put up the performance graph on SteamVR, but is there a way for me to capture that?

I keep getting these weird latency spikes...

[balmy ferry]

Technically you can set up msi afterburner to display gpu and cpu draw times and then use something like obs to record the entire screen at a low resolution that way you can see what's going on on screen or where you are in game when you get those latency spikes

[haughty thistle]

I believe FpsVR also has something like that, but A. it's a paid app and B. I haven't played around with it myself, so it might just be a misunderstanding...

[random sparrow]

should I wait for index v2 or should I just go with the current index?

[sullen linden]

you can make a q2 an index by putting a vive tracker on it and putting a piece of tape over the proximity sensor

[balmy ferry]

I use my quest 2 with vive full body. And you don't need a tracker on it.

[haughty thistle]

It certainly helps by adjusting the calibration for any drift the Quest Tracking will have

I just came off from trying that exact thing with the Pico 4 and while FBT on it is borderline unusable without a continuous calibration tracker, with one it works absolutely flawless. Yes, it does take like 30 seconds to latch on, but once it does, it's almost like the headset is natively lighthouse tracked...

[balmy ferry]

I see

That actually makes sense

but my quest 2 doesnt drift all that much

[haughty thistle]

if it wasn't for the god awful comfort, the lack of low-end in the speakers and the constant 10-20cm too high floor, I'd be more willing to recommend the Pico

[balmy ferry]

Lol

[sullen linden]

i do too

[balmy ferry]

ah well i didnt think about improving tracking or anything

[sullen linden]

only do it if you hate constantly calibrating

if you lock head in fbt setting in vrc the tracker drift wont be too noticeable

so you can use slow instead of slower when calibrating

[gloomy crater]

So does anyone know what causes the common issue where after a while of playing, VR performance just goes from perfectly normal to getting increasingly worse over time? I've seen a few different people with the same issue and it recently started happening again for me after I downgraded my GPU. On my old card, I could pretty much play for as long as I wanted with no performance difference, but now it starts happening after about 40 minutes. Frame times increase, I experience micro stutters, and the whole experience of playing just goes out the window after enough time has passed

[haughty thistle]

Sounds like heat soak of the GPU causing it to throttle after a while...

[gloomy crater]

Huh. Weird, I guess even with a more powerful GPU outputting a greater amount of heat, it throttling to a lower power state would still give a playable experience. Meanwhile a lower power GPU would throttle from a normal experience into a less than fine one. Makes sense.

I can live with it for now. I've still got a few months before I have to start looking at better GPUs, considering Samsung's new 43in G7 Neo isn't shipping till July (or if it turns out to be garbage, the normal G7 Neo) which I'm definitely gonna need a new GPU for, so I guess I'll maybe try and turn down my VR settings to make the throttling less noticeable until then

[leaden ruin]

try to see what your cpu and gpu temps are, seems like your pc/laptop is having serious thermal issues

[gloomy crater]

My CPU average is normally below 85c according to hwinfo. My old GPU was normally around 70-80 but I haven't done a comprehensive VR-based thermal analysis with my current GPU cause I didn't expect to be using it for this long

[leaden ruin]

well cpu sounds fine, not optimal. but i think you should look at gpu temps. just open your monitoring software you used (hwinfo) and just start to play until it becomes worse and worse and worse

then after you decide to stop you see what your max temp was and average and stuff

if that says anything above 90 you have a serious thermal issue on your hand

[gloomy crater]

I've found that max temps aren't a very good metric to go off of. My old GPU max temp after finishing a long VR play session was always 110c. But that temp is only indicative of a very brief spike, not a consistent operating temp, so seeing as the average was always at or below 80, I elected to ignore it. The max temp for my CPU is normally around 95, but once again, the average is lower

I'll do some tests with Half Life Alyx later today since I haven't played it in a while, it should start exhibiting this behavior after 40 minutes to an hour so we'll see what happens I guess

[leaden ruin]

does seem like your pc runs quite hot, but if you want to see/know the problem i suggest monitoring your gpu and cpu temps while in vr. the moment you notice it starts getting worse, keep your finger on the sensor that detects your face and see the temps it has

it will keep the game open

if you don't the game goes in hibernation

and then temps drop like a rock from a high mountain

[gloomy crater]

Alright, I'll do that. I can't really think of how the thermal environment of my computer could be any better though, there are six intake and four exhaust, for a total of ten fans in the system, there's a 360mm AIO for the CPU, and this GPU has a 225w tdp so it's not a furnace like some of the newer cards

[leaden ruin]

225 is still a furnace, but most coolers nowadays can handle it fine

my 3070 ti with a ventus cooler hits 72-74C without my undervolt, and max 63-65C in really heavy games with my undervolt

[gloomy crater]

I guess I haven't repasted this card in the four years that I've had it, so if I do the tests later and I see temps being weird, that's probably what I'm gonna do first

[leaden ruin]

👍

[rapid otter]

Check your ram usage, VRAM and shader VRAM while you are at it once it starts to act weird....

[deep epoch]

ah! I got my first clue to my Index problem... The headset would freeze on a frame and start flickering, but the game would keep running normally (can see in the window on my screen).

I checked event viewer and I see that the "nvlddmkm" driver stopped responding and recovered, but the headset didn't recover...

Off to DDU!

[weary yarrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKpJJuZ4CWA

[strange ibex]

I have 2x4090 and a 3090, but only 32 GB DDR5, so basically Im gonna be running a Dual GPU setup to render a 2D game and view it on a virtual monitor in a VR headset. This will be a Varjo Aero. If I use too much DDR5 will having ReBAR with access to 48 GB VRAM solve that problem for me? Im using 13900k does rebar work with that, is SAM different then rebar?

The end goal of this is to achieve backwards compatibilty on running 2D games at human eye resolution.

[haughty thistle]

Good luck trying to get anything actually utilize that dual-GPU setup...

[strange ibex]

I ran 2x3090 with a Oculus link, one with 40% usage(VR) another with 100%(COD)

[haughty thistle]

Ah. That makes sense, tying the VR runtime to one GPU and the game to another...

You asked whether or not ReBar can solve some issue, but you never mentioned what the issue actually is. Mind to elaborate?

Btw. Smart Access Memory is ReBar. The former being some fancy marketing term by AMD, the latter the actual term by the PCIe Spec...

[strange ibex]

Well I have intel, was worried that it didnt support it. MW2 was using 20 GB in a benchmark I did so I was worried Id run out at 32 GB, and was hoping ReBAR could help, Im also going to run this at x8x8 gen 4 from x16 gen 4, but this has to be done either ways on a Intel platform with 20 PCIe lanes. Also here his link to when I did this with 2x3090, the idea is using DP connection instead of Oculus link will improve input latency to the point that it is playable. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/rémi-arnaud-002200_several-people-i-met-at-iitsec-asked-if-activity-6877313813218250752-180E?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_android

Future implications is that a custom virtual desktop software using eye tracking and FSR or DLSS can upscale this from 8K to 16K at the Fovea region

[haughty thistle]

On that last part, normally yes, but you have to keep in mind, the way these VR systems interface with 2D applications is by the 2D application rendering to a physical screen (or dummy connector) like normal, and then the VR system captures that image, kinda like OBS for example would, and render that into a virtual scene. If you were using Virtual Desktop on the Quest before without running SteamVR, then there#s about as many steps involved. Just minus the transmitting part and probably the encoding/decoding also falls away...

[strange ibex]

Yea I was also think I could do this in a multi-PC setup but Idk if there 4K120 or 8K60 capture cards available

And I feel like it will add to the latency

[haughty thistle]

I don't think ReBar would help much, as system memory is what's used by the CPU. As long as the stuff needed by the GPU fits within the GPU VRAM, there's no need to access the system memory. System memory only get's involved in graphics when either A. the assets don't fit into VRAM or B. while the assets get's loaded and decompressed from the drive. The latter part only DirectStorage would really help with. ReBar is more to reduce the time it takes to transfer assets from the system memory to the VRAM or vice versa...

[haughty thistle]

Yes, yes it would 👀

[strange ibex]

How much does Varjo Aero desktop use in RAM?

There is 16GB varjo ready PC, hopefully its not an issue

[haughty thistle]

It hasn't impeded my usage of the Aero. Never really payed attention to how much ram it's using tbh...

You can make the Varjo software go into an idle state while another application is rendering to the HMD which saves a bit on RAM usage

[strange ibex]

I heard the Varjo desktop mode looks the best though, or can I use another virtual desktop software

[haughty thistle]

Varjo desktop mode looks the best though
Like to disagree there. The Desktop in the Varjo software has a weird contrast applied to it turning light grays into white and dark grays into black. Personally I prefer to use a software called Big Screen, but the Steam Version of Virtual Desktop might also be worth a look as the latter is a bit less bloated with it just allowing Desktop passthrough and none of that social crap...

Virtual Desktop on Steam is a payed app, while BigScreen is free

[strange ibex]

Got it thanks

[weak bluff]

4090s and varjo holy crap

[granite abyss]

Complete VR newbie...

Just wondering what kind of PC specs am I looking at needing to just buy a HTC (or anything not Oculus) simply just to use as a nice "virtual monitor" rather than buying a similar spec'd monitor for around the same price.

[valid wave]

if you're looking to use VR for nothing but a virtual monitor, an average gaming PC will do just fine. hell even a workstation could handle just virtual monitors

but keep in mind that for general PC use, a monitor is a much better purchase than a VR headset. a 1440p monitor looks decently sharp, but a 1440p VR headset will look notably less detailed in comparison

[granite abyss]

Gotcha, thanks. Just wondering because I have a cheap old UW at 60hz my boss bought when we went to WFH. So I was thinking I could use a VR headset for normal controller based games while laying in bed rather than sitting at my desk.

[valid wave]

general rule of thumb is that for X monitor resolution, you'd want a VR headset with 2X total resolution

so for 1080p gaming you'd want a headset that's around 3840x2160 total

a good headset to recommend would be the HP Reverb G2

[granite abyss]

That's exactly what I'd go for since I only have a 3060. Thanks so much, perfectly helpful 🙏

[valid wave]

Reverb G2 is awesome for anything stationary, however people have reported that the controller tracking isn't very good compared to something like the Quest 2, so be wary of playing more traditional VR games

but for simulators and virtual monitors i've heard it's awesome

[granite abyss]

Sounds good, any actual VR would mostly just be to try it. I don't have room to roam lol

[valid wave]

if you feel like you'd genuinely never do actual VR then you might be able to find it a bit cheaper preowned without controllers

it currently goes for USD$600 brand new

[granite abyss]

Good call, I'll check hardwareswap on Reddit once I finally get around to building this PC upgrade.

[valid wave]

as for actual PC specs, all you need is a rig capable of outputting 4K 60 FPS on desktop. which is pretty easy to achieve

and remember it doesn't matter what monitor you have since you can spoof any desktop resolution with tools like NVidia Control Panel

hell even an ultra wide

[granite abyss]

Yeah I have a laptop with a 4K screen & 1050. Rocket League was actually playable at 4K on low.

[harsh niche]

anybody have any recommendations for games that might be able to re-ignite a liking of vr?

right now I just have no motivation to play, i need a reason

[finite yarrow]

Modded Minecraft in vr is sweet if your system can handle it. If you havent played The Climb, its a really fun rock climbing game. One hell of a workout

[austere sleet]

Anyone know of a way to get realtime tracking info in steamVR? I'm trying to find out why my index is unplayable

I've tried google and can't find what I'm looking for.

[valid wave]

as in logging raw coordinate values?

[austere sleet]

possibly? I thought there was somewhere you could see a breakdown of its confidence in tracking and stuff in realtime

I tried saving some logs but I have zero clue how to parse it

I've been back and forth with Steam and they haven't come up with anything meaningful, and I dunno what on earth it could be at this point.

I put on the graph and I get a bunch of pink lines

[valid wave]

the steamvr performance graph?

[austere sleet]

yeah, and the advanced frame timing doesn't seem too helpful

[valid wave]

hmm

not sure how to get a better performance graph with valve index

maybe look into FPS VR on steam? it's a $5 tool that might help?

[austere sleet]

k thx

[austere sleet]

For lack of a better terminology, it seems like my cpu is heavily distracted for very short periods on a very irregular basis

[leaden ruin]

Ok so what i maybe suspect is the usb cable is maybe a bit wonky

Tried a different port yet?

[austere sleet]

Yeah, have tried changing ports a few times

[leaden ruin]

Mmh but your cpu spikes to 100%?

What i could also suspect that would jubble the tracking is incorrect base stations of some sort

Maybe something reflective, outside light, maybe pc case side window?, A television that reflects it back?