math-and-meta

[median heath]

That's what I mainly do.

[golden mist]

because it doesnt work for a lot of people I know... guess we've had different experiences in the game

just because it works for you and a few others doesnt mean it works for everyone

[median heath]

If these people are in multiplayer, modded, or dedicated servers then that is the problem.

"Few others" lmao

[cinder silo]

I still have a lot of mines to retrofit and it is doubling my belts, but it will enforce that 780 🙂

[median heath]

All of mine split vertically 😂

[golden mist]

ok you win, here is your cookie 🍪

[cinder silo]

Got a screen? 🤩

[golden mist]

you can have your perfect world... I live in the real world

[median heath]

You're living in a fantasy land because you want to be correct about telling people to play the game wrong.
But you do you 👍

[median heath]

Not.. really?
I just prefer stacked belts to side-by-side ones.

[cinder silo]

I'll have to do both, you've seen how my belts are routed.

[golden mist]

@median heath I just tested, and apologize, I had done throughput tests with Update 4 last, and was only able to get about 755-760 items per minute out of a mk 5 belt whether I had 20 machines processing 780 ipm input or just a short belt between 2 containers. I just retested in U6 and was able to get 780, apparently there was an optimization I didnt hear about.

[median heath]

No worries.

Belt to Belt is where the issues occur so you can avoid them entirely by just always doing belt to splitter/merger.

[golden mist]

my test was ISC > 2 segment belt > ISC... even tested a series of smelters totaling 780 ipm in/out... with U4 I couldnt get it over 760 ipm output either way

[median heath]

[vapid gorge]

There's also Belt Welding to remove the b2b issues.

[cinder silo]

That is really up to 450-500m, past that the belts start getting weird, and way past that hard locks the game.

[golden mist]

Belt welding? Oh, google answered me haha

[vapid gorge]

It's a pretty useful trick to not have constant merger/spliters everywhere

Also ignore Taro - 600m+ extremely wiggly looking belts are your friend

[golden mist]

I dont think I'll have any belts that long anyways, and always have been a proponent of "fewest belt segments possible" no matter where/what I builld

[vapid gorge]

It's a good way!
I use welding everywhere internally in a factory where I might be even close to it's max throughput too.

Also when you weld belts you turn 'many belt segments' into 1 object XD

[cinder silo]

If you want weirdness they by all means go for it, I can only report the issues I've run in to so no.

[vapid gorge]

'one' belt

[vapid gorge]

but yeah in the direction the belts run, the ends can get weird

374 alum sheets for that belt XD

[cinder silo]

And? I have seen weird crap happening past 500, items vanishing (visually) off the belt when you go down stream is damned annoying, the hard locks I can't exactly prevent.

[vapid gorge]

No and. Just an example of weird XD Haven't seen any vanishing though

[cinder silo]

I have, usually past 500, what's why the sections on some of my longer belts are around that.

450 was just easier because of multiple max length parts.

[vapid gorge]

Now I'm curious how many m distance you get per alum sheet. Not sure how long that segment is

[cinder silo]

I did have a 10km single section belt, the result was a crash the moment stuff started travelling it.

[vapid gorge]

That'd do it yes XD

[cinder silo]

I would love to 1 section every major belt I have, the game just won't so I'm now having to run double belts just to enforce 780 throughput.

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it's a pain. On the example segments above I really had a maximum number of belts/pipes I could reasonably run under the train line as a bus and keep the aesthetic. HAD to weld that

It's too bad Pipe welding is basically impossible

[cinder silo]

Pipe welding is very hit or miss using the cross junctions, sometimes it works, othertimes it'll bug the pipe and it won't move crap.

[vapid gorge]

Also the conditions are so strict and obscure as to make them useless. Pretty sure you have to absolutely have them straight the whole length + other things.

[cinder silo]

Pretty much, more trouble than it's worth.

[vapid gorge]

And if you have long segments of straight pipes welding them isn't needed

[cinder silo]

I mainly weld either entire runs that are reasonably short, or those really annoying multi part short bits that happen when weaving belts in to awkward shapes to avoid clipping or crap looks.

[vapid gorge]

Be a person of taste and just bury your terrible belts 😛

[cinder silo]

Trouble is I would know they're terrible, then I have to fix it 😦

[vapid gorge]

Just get obsessed with your next project and never think about them again XD

[cinder silo]

Got several on the go which is taking time, current one is like 180 refineries to process plastic and rubbber

minus one b, oops

Oh god I couldn't route belts like that,

[vapid gorge]

They have sinned. They deserve punishment

[cinder silo]

This mess was my approach to just splitting one belt in to four, then merging that in to four incoming belts each moving 390,, upping the output to 540.

Once I woke up the overhead QW factory, I found the resulting belt origami actually worked as planned.

[vapid gorge]

NIce 😄

[viscid raven]

Should i do a Bus based factory or a Sector based factory

Bus based (self explanatory) Sector based (Factory is separated or partly separated into independent sectors that produce all items necessary to create the intended final product)

[sacred orbit]

i got some BIG BRAIN MATH IDEAS boiling in my head to try and get equal balance producing packaged fuel using a blend of recipes.

just about every setup ive thought up thus far has had the same problem: it produces too much fuel for the amount of empty containers produced. that's no good. HOWEVER, i've realized that, using the basic oil->plastic recipe enough times to operate a HOR->fuel refinery once at 100% speed makes SIX TIMES the number of containers needed for one fuel packager, which gives plenty of room for other things to produce excess fuel.

[median heath]

Why wouldn't you just use the Poly>Plastic recipe?
Making HOR to make Fuel gives you Poly as a byproduct.
Use it to make containers. 🤷‍♂️

[sacred orbit]

HOR->fuel is the Residual Fuel recipe.

oil->fuel gives poly

[median heath]

Oil>HOR is the HOR recipe.
Gives Poly

Then HOR>Fuel

[sacred orbit]

you mean this one?

[median heath]

Yes.

[sacred orbit]

need it 3 times over to make enough poly to make enough plastic to make 40 containers/min.

[median heath]

It's about the conversion of oil > hor > fuel

Poly is just extra.

[sacred orbit]

3 times over gives 120 HOR, which is enough to make 80 fuel, filling 2 packagers.

my point is, there wouldn't be enough poly to make enough containers using this setup on its own.

that's just it tho

ON ITS OWN

[timber sparrow]

DAMNIT

I am SO CLOSE to getting those sweet Alclad Aluminum Sheets but my wife is calling me for DINNER!!!

[hazy saffron]

Food vs Satisfactory

The ultimate struggle

[mystic moon]

Imagine that
eating dinner

1st world problems am I right

[hazy saffron]

Imagine even being at home

[sacred orbit]

IN CONJUNCTION with the setup i first listed, which has 200 extra containers/minute, this second setup we're looking at could be run an extra FIVE TIMES OVER and all the containers and fuel would be being packaged with no backing up

[median heath]

No need for dinner.
We have alien protein.

• some paleberries and some beryl nuts with a good mug of anti-gravity liquid.
  Perfectly balanced pioneer meal.

[hazy saffron]

Yes

I can only imagine eating a beryl nut would taste good but be dry af

[median heath]

Take it with some Packaged Water 👍

[hazy saffron]

Nah, I prefer Mysterious Antigravity Liquid™️

[sacred orbit]

ANOTHER DISCOVERY!!! at the oil islands area, one extractor set to 150% on one of the normal nodes could operate the BIG CANISTER PLANT, while the other three(2pure1normal) can run the oil>fuel packaging recipe five times over! the place was basically set up to be perfect for this!

i'm sure using the oil>HOR>fuel thing, which saves an extra 30 crude, could alleviate the overclocking, but that also takes extra refineries.

[topaz hedge]

I like oil..

[timber sparrow]

Where can I see that

[topaz hedge]

satisfactory calculator production tab.

[hazy saffron]

USA would like to know your location

[signal nimbus]

Sounds like wolfgrim needs some freedom.

[hazy saffron]

Wouldn't even make a difference lmao

Actually it would lol

US consumes about 20 million barrels of oil per day
He's extracting about 75 million

Dudes 15 million barrels/day away from matching Earth's total production

[signal nimbus]

XD

[hazy saffron]

Global oil productin is about 9925 cubic meters per minute. Satisfactory allows up to 9900 cubic meters per minute for extraction

[wary tulip]

Now that’s interesting….

[topaz hedge]

TIL

I wonder if CSS did some research on that and it wasn't just a number that felt right.

[hazy saffron]

No idea

[golden quartz]

With one is best? Im just after discovering oil.

[oblique hollow]

none of them is "best"

each has a different use

pick one which seems useful. if none of them seem useful, pick what you think might be in the future

[bleak slate]

Compacted coal is good for making turbofuel which is good for vehicles and fuel generators, or for coal plants.

High speed connectors are vital to a lot of later game components, and that recipe is both faster and simpler than the base one.

The electrode circuit board one is ok. it requires refineries and oil extractors but can be done with a singular refinery, but there is a recipe for 12.5 a minute using 11 copper sheets and 11 silica. this one is significantly better in terms of resources/minute but lacks simplicity, as it needs a copper and quartz node.

[magic island]

main issue with electrode circuit boards is that you still need other resources in order to actually do anything with them, so the novelty of making them purely out of oil fades pretty quick

[vapid gorge]

And it's actually really pricy in oil even with the super efficient petro recipes

[cinder silo]

I had electrode in mind at one point, but I get better output using caterium circuits.

[vapid gorge]

I'm sure people could make a niche for it to be useful but it's pretty low on how often you'd expect it to be useful over others

[cinder silo]

I got lured in with electrode in my starter factory, messed my numbers up pretty big time to boot because I actually missed the differing output levels 😦

[vapid gorge]

that it's a recipe for ONE not five? XD yeah

[vapid gorge]

Even if electrode made 3 cb I’d still probably not use it.
Oil is so useful for extending other resources in Alts

[cinder silo]

Right now my refinery has a sink plan in place, bloody wasteful, I'd sooner deal with the byproduct in making even more power nearby, cba piping water right now though.

I know with double the refineries, and water I could recyc and double the plastic & rubber, the maths behind it and planning made my overheated head not work it out well.

[bleak slate]

i am disappointed by my current factory

[cinder silo]

Build another one nearby with the lessons learned the first time around, don't do my trick and demo it then spend months relying on what's left in the warehouse, really don't, that hurts.

[bleak slate]

i need to rebuild entirely yeah

not gonna do nearby though, my placement is terrible

im at the starter area

this is my first world

i am not even close to central

[vapid gorge]

It’s SO good though . My first mega was a 9000 plat/rub pm plant

[vapid gorge]

This is pretty normal the first few maps 🙂

[cinder silo]

Grassy fields? , it isn't bad but you do lack some late game nodes nearby, it isn't the end of the world though because this game encourages you to explore, in addition time really is on your side, don't rush.

[bleak slate]

dilluted fuel is so good though

[bleak slate]

nearest oil node is 2.2 km away and i have 2 conveyors + a hypertube running to it

closest sulfur is 800m or something

[cinder silo]

I'm probably going to just pipe the damned water tbh, 1200 plastic & rubber will turn in to 2400 and I won't be sinking coke in to twelve sinks, I just don't look forward to the build.

[bleak slate]

bauxite is also really far

I just don't look forward to the build.

literally this game

😔

[cinder silo]

This game can suck up time, I learned that the hard way 😄

[bleak slate]

i havent spent over 200 hours yet

crossout and noita on the other hand... 2.25k hours total

crossout is 1.5k

no clue how many i have on minecraft

[cinder silo]

1200 hours in my current save, and my production is a shambles, I keep finding better approaches, demolishing stuff now I'm only producing quickwire & 400Gw of power.

I'm building my very first train to move aluminium ingots from a stupidly placed processing facility, to the middle of the dunes where my half built rebuild is.

All to shift 4320 ingots, I have to process that crap and I am not sure of the best ratio of alclad plates to aluminium casings, considered 2-1 and just go with it.

[bleak slate]

if i had the space to do it id just do an absurdly massive amount of each at a 1:1

[vapid gorge]

When you expand late game you have to either have distant hubs or bring things in. Just the way it goes

[bleak slate]

i mean the nearest uranium node is like 3km and thats kinda absurd

a central base location would make everything a LOT easier

[cinder silo]

You don't want to see my uranium beltway then 😛

Logistics is the core of this game, figure out moving crap form A to B

[bleak slate]

my quartz line is pretty bad #screenshots message

[cinder silo]

Not as bad as mine I assure you, let me see if I can get scim to load, I'll show you the route, it's epic.

[vapid gorge]

Only way to ‘know the ratio’ is to have an end plan

[vapid gorge]

There’s only one spot where you can have a bit of everything within 2k I think but it’s not much if everything

[bleak slate]

youre also closer to many duplicate nodes

compared to being on the edge of the map

[cinder silo]

Found the quartz line, follow the red line on the map 😄

[bleak slate]

Is that a basic conveyor? Or a rail line

[cinder silo]

Conveyor moving 600ppm

[bleak slate]

Damnnn

[cinder silo]

All four uranium nodes are belted to that cluster of structures just south of the centre of the map.

[bleak slate]

Dang nice

[cinder silo]

I used the wrong processing recipes though, so instead of producing like 50.5 fuel rods, I get 21, for the entire planets uranium.

[bleak slate]

Breh

[cinder silo]

I really can't be bothered tearing down to rebuild, too much underway as it stands.

[bleak slate]

Yeah

[cinder silo]

I'm in the middle of building my very first rail delivery, I'll see how well it works soon enough.

[thorny heron]

shouldnt you maybe switch to trains?

[cinder silo]

For a single line of 600ppm, not worth it, the bulk coming out of my aluminium refinery though, that changes everything.

[thorny heron]

alright okay

[cinder silo]

Rooftop train station ftw, it's fairly level with the dunes that makes it all the better.

[thorny heron]

nice

[cinder silo]

Six cars should easily shift 4320 ingots to where I want them 👍

[timber sparrow]

Does Iodine Filter deplete while in poison gas in U6?

The wiki says it does, but the game behaves otherwise

[median heath]

Not in U6

They un-fixed it.

[timber sparrow]

It seems I have made a strategic error 😦

[fierce ruin]

Math is fun lol

[median heath]

It can be.

Proofs can fuck off though.

[tropic hawk]

Amen

[cinder silo]

Hmm shit, is my train line too long or something, apparently I'm getting 653 parts per minute at the destination, trouble is 720 is going in a the other end.

[tropic hawk]

Add more trains then

[river night]

if the train manages to take everything with it as it leaves, and the station is empty, as well as the belt never stops feeding it, then train length or duration is not a problem

[median heath]

Longer wouldn't lower throughput.

[river night]

just make sure your calculation accounts for the loading time, and use a buffer to compensate, maybe using the second input to ensure there is enough troughput

[median heath]

Unless you're dealing in 50 stack sizes that can fill a car before the route finishes so you're burning throughput by the excess not being attainable.

[cinder silo]

Got buffer cans at both ends,

[zenith garden]

Where do you do this?

[median heath]

Not what I'm talking about.

[cinder silo]

Outbound lists what should be going out.

[median heath]

The only way route length makes throughput worse is if you're filling the station faster than 36 stacks per route time.

[river night]

maybe the incoming just needs to balance its numbers then? if its calculating an outgoing rate of 720/min, then those have to go somewhere

[cinder silo]

Hmm, adding a second belt from the outbound storage can to the station seems to have had an effect.

[median heath]

Wait

Wtf????

YOU DIDNT HAVE YOUR BUFFERS DOUBLE-BELTED????

[cinder silo]

With the max throughput being below max why would I, apparently its a thing though.

[median heath]

It always has been a thing...

[river night]

the docking time is pretty long, so it eats into the maximum in average

[median heath]

Double-belting is there to catch the system up so the average jumps up to what you want it to be.

[cinder silo]

Having two belts in to an industrial can for throughput feels weird.

[river night]

makes sense though because the trains deliver their stuff rather bursty, so you want the extra throughput to make sure

[median heath]

It counteraverages the lockout timer.

You double-belt on both ends to get things into and out of stations as fast as possible.

[river night]

720 to 780 is pretty close, and the loading lockout gets in your way

[cinder silo]

Never occured to me since only 720 output per car is going.

[median heath]

So that the lockout has as little affect as possible.

[cinder silo]

My train line isn't very long, just off the roof of the aluminium refinery to halfway in to the dunes, I'm going to leave the system running for a while and see how well it keeps up.

[noble agate]

Loading time has bigger impact if the route is short.

As it's higher percentage of the total travel time

[cinder silo]

The loading lockout is quite long, it's the whole reason for the industrial cans at each end to keep things flowing.

[median heath]

Zula were you not present when I posted all the throughout maths?

[cinder silo]

Likely not, I took a break for ages after my initial burnout at the start of U5.

[median heath]

Oof.

Basically double-belt buffers at both ends.

And fewer trains with more cars on longer routes =max throughput potential

[cinder silo]

Both ends double belted now, my current train config is six cars, the buffer sending is taking 720ppm, the freight platform isn't overflowing though, it is being emptied.

[river night]

with double belting it should be just fine

[median heath]

You don't want it overflowing.

[cinder silo]

The train seems to be emptying the platform now.

[median heath]

Optimally the pickup platform is completely empty when the train leaves, and the drop off platform is completely empty before the train arrives.

[cinder silo]

Yep platform is empty now.

Huh weird, now it saying outgoing transfer rate 660, I must be misunderstanding it since it's empty with 720 going in.

[river night]

it might need to stabilize after you changed things

[rancid sentinel]

How did you get to 16200 screws, Im wondering what alternative im missing

Did you do iron > steel?

[tropic hawk]

Pure iron, solid steel, steel rod, screw

Iirc

[heavy portal]

It looks like people tend to diss the biocoal and charcoal alternate recipes, but I did the math, and it's a higher net positive energy for both charcoal and biocoal than to convert them into even liquid biofuel. I assume the reason why people like to fight it is due to how complex biomass-to-coal power is in comparison to biomass burners, and I understand that, but in my main run, I have a 680-or-so MW coal plant that only gets fuel from biomass, and I can use a smart splitter to turn it on and off.

[magic island]

the main use-case I can think of is dumping a bunch of biomass/mycelia into a bin and having it turn into coal/fabric for gas mask filters. but you still also have to dump in some rubber too, soooo

[heavy portal]

Guess who didn't even think of that? I thought maybe it could help make steel in a pinch, but... I still have much to learn and/or make sense of, or I just play this game very differently than other people.

[deft lichen]

[...] than to convert them into even liquid biofuel
that's the problem, liquid biofuel is universally hated too

[finite sun]

the main problem with coal from biomass is merely the fact that it's not fully automatable. Yeah, it works, and yeah, technically it's quite effective, but why bother, coal from the nodes is unlimited.

[heavy portal]

Okay, thanks. That makes much more sense. I guess I really do play this game very differently from other people.

[deft lichen]

it's not inherently a bad recipe, it just can't be used really well
if you built a power plant using it - why not, you can always switch to a coal mine later once you get tired of feeding it manually

[heavy portal]

It's designed to be a back-up power plant, for when I expand, and the power storages start draining really fast. I think most people use biomass burners en masse to do things like that.

[deft lichen]

biomass burners can't charge power storages, but biocoal powered coal gens can

they however don't scale to demand either, so you might end up burning more biomass than needed

[heavy portal]

Thanks for the interesting convorsation you three. I've got other things to do, so bye.

[cinder silo]

I found the source of the resource starvation going through the train station and it's way more fundamental than my ability to build a train station, it turns out my bauxite refinery design was badly flawed on the fact I can't fucking count, each group of refineries wants 800 bauxite, even a not-fucked mk5 maxes at 780, I need to employ a fix by belting from an extra bauxite mine.

[unborn ermine]

Its always fun when things happen like that.

[median heath]

HE HE

[unborn ermine]

When I was setting up my basic oil factory to start, I missed connecting two pipes in the HOR output, and wondered why the recyclers werent getting enough fuel.
That was two machines in idle for god knows how long.

[cinder silo]

Not sure how I managed to make such a schoolboy error, it should have been obvious that four refineries each demanding 200 wasn't going to run smoothly, I'm just glad I have a lot of space to work with because that was one hell of a bungle, seeing the belts split like that might look pretty but I bet each refinery group is getting like 755ish, definitely not 800🤣 🤦‍♂️

How to fix thankfully is easy, split a normal bauxite mine in to six & inject at the second to last on each cluster, I'll get started as soon as I've had a shower, it's bloody hot here rn..

[atomic junco]

I figure your in the UK too?

[cinder silo]

Yeah.

[atomic junco]

Figured, only one of us would say "its bloody hot" lmao

And yeah its way to hot rn man

[cinder silo]

🤣

[pulsar gale]

Is this impossible to do?

[vocal tundra]

no

[pulsar gale]

How on Earth do I do this?

[median heath]

What part is confusing you?

[snow dove]

split in two, and be patient

underclock/overclock to get the right numbers

[pulsar gale]

Getting the amounts of 236.25 and 303.75 from the Smelter to the Constructor. I realize I need 16 Constructors for the Rods and 11 for the plates but Manifolding that into them just seems confusing. I guess I can overclock the smelters? Idk.

[snow dove]

dont manifold

[median heath]

What's the highest belt mk you have?

[pulsar gale]

Oh wait nevermind. I found out how to do it.

[median heath]

Always manifold.

[pulsar gale]

I just need to underclock one of the constructors.

Mk3.

[snow dove]

oh wait, i confused manifold and balancer

do manifold

[pulsar gale]

Yes yes. I was gonna say cause it has been working a treat.

[snow dove]

send one full mk3 to the iron rod constructor, send any excess from that to iron plate constructors

[pulsar gale]

Thank you anyway. Was just me being stupid and not reading the clock speeds.

[pulsar gale]

I was gonna Manifold 8 smelters to the Iron rods and underclock one of the constructors to 75%, then the other 10 smelters to the Iron plates underclocking one constructor to 12.5%

That should do it I think.

[snow dove]

whatever works

[vapid gorge]

It'd be more straight forward to build a big battery bank. It'll just slowly charge up in the background over time and is fully automated.

[topaz hedge]

liquid biofuel in fuel gens was pretty bad before the power changes.

[median heath]

It still is.

Biocoal gives you more net MJ than Liquid BF.

[cinder silo]

One weird retrofit later and my aluminium is finally running at full whack, I still can barely believe I made such a dumb mistake trying to get 800 bauxite vs a 780 belt.

[icy jewel]

Do you think the calculator website could be turned into an app?

Ignoring the resources probably required to develop it

[hazy saffron]

If you're asking if it's possible; yes

If you're asking if it'll be done; who knows

[frosty owl]

Just ask greeny. He's in the server (and has his own, linked in the tool)

[median heath]

Tools would make a better app tbh.

||Not biased at all.||

[icy jewel]

Lol thx guys

[wind spade]

Depends what you mean by an app

[median heath]

Not on a mobile webpage.

[wind spade]

I could relatively easily pack it into a desktop app, which would internally just open the webpage (e.g. how discord works)

But making a separate desktop/mobile app that isn't just a hidden browser would take tons of time

[median heath]

Discord-esque package would satisfy what almost everyone who uses it needs tbh.

[wind spade]

It would require some changes tho, e.g. handling share links or switching between versions

[median heath]

Only 1 version.
People not on U6 can suck it. 😉

[vapid gorge]

I think I might hate the tools app on mobile. Convenient adjustments and planning = mouse+desktop

[wind spade]

Well I haven't put too much work into optimising it for mobile

Also I don't feel that the tools should be optimised for mobile. There's just too much info neded to be shown to fit on mobile screen

[median heath]

Can fit anything onto the ZFold 3 screen 😉

[icy jewel]

I was meaning a mobile app

I mean a discord bot wouldn’t be too bad

I’d that’s what you meant

[wind spade]

uhhh... I never said discord bot

[icy jewel]

Lol I misread

[wind spade]

I meant "run a website inside of native app, just like discord does"

[icy jewel]

Oh yea my bad

[wind spade]

but mobile app is pretty much not viable. Would be several months of development even for someone who can do mobile apps, and I can't do mobile apps 🙂

[icy jewel]

I’m just out on holiday planning a factory on my phone

[wind spade]

as I explained above, I don't think I can fit all the necessary info onto a phone screen

[icy jewel]

I’m on a iPhone 12 S and tbh it has worked fine for the most part outside of ads blocking the entire screen periodically

[wind spade]

I don't have any ads on my tools

[icy jewel]

The user interface on phone isn’t very, easy to use

Heh

[wind spade]

you may be talking about some other calculator?

[icy jewel]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production

[wind spade]

yeah that's not mine

[icy jewel]

Is it’s also a website?

[wind spade]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/

[icy jewel]

Nifty

It is a bit awkward on phone lol

[icy jewel]

This one does seem better on mobile, when I get home though I’ll try it on desktop

[wind spade]

as I said above:

• I didn't optimise much towards mobile
• I don't think you can fit all the necessary information nicely on phone anyway

[oblique hollow]

ey btw, your rule of 45-81 is technically the rule of 15-27, or the rule of 3

[median heath]

False.

[oblique hollow]

yeye 0.33333*3 =1

[median heath]

Breaks down immediately if you try that on HMFs.

3/2.8125=1.066666666
Ergo not clean number.

[oblique hollow]

15 and 27 tho?

[median heath]

45/2.8125 = 16
Clean AF.

45 is the whole number.
Keep dividing by 2 to find smaller multiples.

[oblique hollow]

27/2.8125 = 9.6

[median heath]

45, 22.5, 11.25, 5.625

[median heath]

Works for 1 doesn't mean works for all.

[oblique hollow]

well.... gotta try em all

[median heath]

45-81 rule is what it is because it works for all except 2.

We already did try them all. That's where the rule came from, lol.

[oblique hollow]

well 27 still works for oil products

[median heath]

Using 27 Oil is the baseline for Oil products, which someone else figured out.
Given Recycled Loop that 27 translates to 81 product.
Which is what started me on the math to find the 45 part of the rule.

[oblique hollow]

me

[median heath]

I remember you being in the conversation but we used the other person's brute force sheet to confirm.

[oblique hollow]

it was MY sheet

i brute forced recycled loops

[median heath]

Also you having been there at the inception and proof makes it weird that you're now saying what we proved was wrong..

[oblique hollow]

eh, i forget things

but i do remember other things

[median heath]

The 45-81 rule was moreso the 5.625-10.125 rule that we just scaled up to whole numbers.

[oblique hollow]

funny enough 81 is just 45 * 1.8

[median heath]

Indeed.

[oblique hollow]

because, well, both are multiples of 3

[median heath]

Also true.

Which is why I tried things like 15 and 30

But those have too many exceptions.

45 had the least exceptions so I scaled down.

5.625 has the least possible exceptions of every number I tested.
Which scales back up to 45 at the whole number level.

CatCB even works into it, but that's with UC not OC or multiple buildings.

So you're left just Pure Iron being weird and Fine Concrete being something no one should ever use.

[fringe pawn]

Is the TL:DR on this every 27 oil produces round numbers for the recycling loop?

[noble agate]

9 oil is enough. Every step in those formulas is divisible by 9.

If you have all 4 alternate recipies

[finite sun]

not to mention that any numbers are fine, if you're not as anal about perfect precision as Sev

[noble agate]

I don’t understand where 27-81 comes from. It’s the same as 9-27, i.e. every 9 crude oil entered into the setup produces 27 plastic/rubber. No need to overcomplicate it by talking about 27 and 81.

[oblique hollow]

multiply by 3 to remove fractions

so you dont have to build machines at an endless decimal clock speed

its the perfectionist's fantasy

[noble agate]

You mean that the percentages become whole numbers? Because the production targets are whole numbers even when starting from 9 oil.

[fringe pawn]

I might build this for a small SE factory just to finish my U6 experimental run. It's my attempt at a 'whole numbers' oil setup.

[wind spade]

turbofuel 🤢

[fringe pawn]

Space saving measure, I'm building in the swamp

[noble agate]

You need turbofuel for turbo rifle ammo, right?

[fringe pawn]

That too.

The goal is a small facility in the swamp, with just the nearby geysers and no coal. Furthest resource will be the raw quartz up in the titan forest.

Do clockspeeds that result in long decimals for production times (IE, a single recycled plastic building set to produce 148 plastic) result in a potential precision issue? I'm not going to change anything, I'm just curious.

For a mega factory, what I'd probably do is abide any crazy fluid numbers very slightly rounded up, then build fluid buffers for each network such that as long as I empty the buffers every thousand hours, nothing will back up.

[noble agate]

For my large nuclear plant I’m avoiding recipies that produce fluids as outputs as much as I can. The only exceptions that I can’t avoid are aluminum and non-fissile uranium. I’m sending water from those to a fuel power plant that uses them in diluted fuel blenders. That should mean they won’t back up.

I’m not trying to use the water in the nuclear plant, too many things can go wrong there 🙂

Oh, and the blenders for the diluted fuel could use more water than is provided by the nuclear plant, just to make sure all water sent to them is used.

[empty glade]

5 and 9, to clear up the mystery

[frosty owl]

Eh, I prefer setting up a packaging-and-sink solution rather than having to remember about buffers 😅

[sullen cloud]

In this game, which has major issues keeping pace with max throughput of MK V belts and MK II pipes and large factory builds, those deviations in precision occur sooner or later with a large save. Thus, rounding errors due to under oder overclocking are negligible when you have a huge save.

Clean numbers look good on paper and in your head, but game won’t be able to perform all calculations in time

[fringe pawn]

3 spidermans meet

[sullen cloud]

at least

[fringe pawn]

At least that's how I feel when looking at the web on satistools 😛

[sullen cloud]

I run my own spreadsheets, easier to keep track and to adjust in the long run

[fringe pawn]

I start with one page on satistools then break it apart into many separate ones

[sullen cloud]

Yeah. But I have those since EA release, I think Greeny‘s tool hasn’t always been able to keep your factory saved and bring over to a new version of his tool

[wind spade]

I mentioned it in my server, there's plan to do some sort of export/import thingy

[vapid gorge]

Ok I'm trying to split 728 ore into max 14 refineries.

The base consumption is 24 pm and I'm trying to divide up the ore in such a way as to have no repeating decimals. I'm not sure if there's a simple way to split it up that way. Brain isn't up to possibly using calc for this

[sullen cloud]

Yeah, I have read that. No worries, love your tool to double check my spreadsheets nevertheless

[noble agate]

Why not manifold it?

[finite sun]

some people like pain

[vapid gorge]

Oh it is I'm just trying to not have the machines every stutter.

[finite sun]

build 1/7 splitter
then split all 7 outputs into 2

[vapid gorge]

no no I've got a manifold of 728 ore coming in. I have 14 refineries in the manifold. I'm just trying to split the clock speed to have even constant production and avoid repeating decimals

[noble agate]

So you need 728/14=52/min to each refinery

[vapid gorge]

=216.666666666666% speed

[noble agate]

Yeah, kinda nasty

[vapid gorge]

Yeah I might just need to bite the bullet on this one. Which is extremely frustrating since everything else in the facility is nicely clocked

52.5 works, but the remaining I think 45.5 does NOT

[finite sun]

well, why not run 12 at 250% and put the remainer into the last one?

ah, you have 14, so some can run at 200%

[vapid gorge]

I thought I tried that in my brain. .... maybe not XD Very little sleep last night. If I missed this I'll name my first born Just_Dont after you

[finite sun]

there's no practical reason to have all 14 run at the same clock speed, they just need to process total of 728

[vapid gorge]

Yeah the full clock thing just didn't come across my addled brain. It'll probably work out w/o repeats that way. Mind you reducing the fluid draw from the pipe manifold is also nice. Can save some flow issues

[frosty owl]

That's not completely true. While there are issues with MK2 pipes and belts of all MKs when at max throughput, once those are accounted for (as one can do, if they want) everything else is perfectly predictable.
In other words, any deviation from 100% efficiency always boils down to a preventable error or a bug that one can work around (eg: forgetting a low MK belt segment or trying to use a maxed belt for more than one belt segment)

[vapid gorge]

Having a bunch of them at 250% hasn't solved the issue XD

but I do have a solution now

[frosty owl]

I might be repeating myself, but I would clock all machines at 250 or whatever you prefer and round down the clock of the last one, then deal with the 0.001/min excess input (or however much that would be)

[finite sun]

well, it's basically this

[vapid gorge]

I might have to XD There doesn't seem to be a good combination of numbers

[frosty owl]

Eg: assuming all machines at 250, the remaining one should be clocked at 33.3333....%, so I'd clock at 33.3333% (round down) and deal with the input overflow

[vapid gorge]

Yeah I was just hoping I could get a combination of clock speeds but no I cannot

[finite sun]

you can't do it precisely, but you can leave the imprecise part to the last refinery
and then round it up to 33.334

[vapid gorge]

I need that 0.0001 though XD but no it'll be fine. It'll be a very occasionally hiccup I'll never actually see and I'll just block it out

ugh, it'll mean I'll have to have a sink though. Was hoping to avoid that

[finite sun]

but why

[vapid gorge]

oh ... no I don't need to mix the belt should be ok

[vapid gorge]

I've been mixing belts

[frosty owl]

You could clock it at .3334 and keep it running stable for very long by just adding a full buffer (for the input)

[finite sun]

well, it's not "for very long" but actually forever

[vapid gorge]

Yup I'll just have to suck it up. Thanks XD

[finite sun]

the trick here is not to leave at 33.333, because that will produce a tiny bit LESS than needed

[frosty owl]

No. The storage would eventually empty out... Just after a veeeeeeeeeeeery long time.
I mentioned a round UP of the clock instead of a round down for this approach

[finite sun]

Well that's the point. The point is to process 728 of input, not more (but also not less)

[vapid gorge]

Ta all, I have to go sleep now cause I'm dying... while having been attempting futile calculus

[wind spade]

there's a planned setting that would display "clock speed for equally clocked machines"

[frosty owl]

You literally cannot do that 🤷‍♂️
The choice is between rounding the clock down (underproduction) or up (overproduction)

[wind spade]

so in your case, 31 machines at 97.8495%

[finite sun]

obviously you can, by leaving the clock a little bit higher than needed.

because in a system that gets 728 input you can't physically produce more

[frosty owl]

Assuming one allows for yellow lights, sure

[finite sun]

oh yeah, those yellow lights that kill kittens

[vapid gorge]

Yeah sadly I'd already built this before crunching the fine numbers

[finite sun]

and cause earthquakes

[vapid gorge]

And I'll accept the extremely rare yellow light before I redesign this

[frosty owl]

Well, avoiding yellow lights seemed kind of the point... (one message higher though)

[median heath]

Oil and the Recycled Loop has a lot more ways to do it "cleanly" because you're working with 2 final products.

The 45 part of the rule is more rigid because of how many non-oil things there are. And when people try to divide it into 3s and such they are forgetting that 45 is just the whole number, the base multiple to do non-oil in is 5.625, which was scaled up to 45 for ease of explanation and use with mass production.

[sullen cloud]

And how do you explain 99% efficiency ratings in machines while they are 100% satisfied?

[wind spade]

efficiency meter is super unreliable

[sullen cloud]

Yeah, but there’s no other source ingame. And no other output measurement.

[wind spade]

pure math is a pretty decent source of measurement 😛

[sullen cloud]

I am not talking about math being correct. But about the game being able to handle my math.

[magic island]

if I don't see the lights turn yellow i am satisfied

[wind spade]

machines do handle precision pretty well. Belts work 100% with single segment, then drop a bit with each other segment. Pipes work well when fed from up and looped (and can reach full mk2 pipe in that case).

so if you take all of that into account, game can handle your math if you build properly

[sullen cloud]

well, pipes are looped, MK V is used up to 750 max. And yet I cannot see ingame if it runs like it should. And there’s this duplicating bug on top.

[wind spade]

duplicating bug won't really hurt your production if it's 100% without the bug

unless you have some weird setup that requires exact input

[frosty owl]

Math can work, but a great and reliable way can be (though quite cumbersome to apply): the power draw graph
Taking away particle accelerators and vehicles, a flat power draw means 100% efficiency, though one may want to wait multiple updates of the whole graph for particularly in-depth applications

Charged power storages can be a relatively easy way to set up "clean testing circuits"

[sullen cloud]

Without buffers and an extensive train network that seems not feasible

Have you tested this method with a large save?

[median heath]

Random thought here: If you got the bug on multiplayer where a Water Well gives you uranium waste... could you not use the higher-uranium-cost alternate to make more Plutonium Rods than you'd normally be able to? 🙃

[river night]

probably, but whats the point of doing something thats going to last until the next patch and only on dedicated servers

[median heath]

Memes 🤷‍♂️

[deft lichen]

how does a water well produce uranium waste, it doesn't have a belt output

do you need to pull it out manually?

[median heath]

🤷‍♂️

liquid nuclear waste 👀

[river night]

like nuclear waste, only worse

[vocal tundra]

Yum

[magic island]

what form does the waste take, anyway? like, does a stack of it appear in the output inventory where the fluid output should be?

[river night]

that is the question, isnt it

[naive ingot]

I wonder just how much it would change things if there were a few Sulphuric Acid wells on the map...

[median heath]

Are you strapped for sulfur somehow?

[naive ingot]

Not really, but considering sulphur can be used in so many things, and Sulphuric Acid is pretty specific to batteries and nuclear, it seems like it wouldn't be too unbalancing...

[wind spade]

what would be the point of that anyway

[median heath]

You can do all aluminium on the map using Instant + Max Nuke and still have enough sulfur for a couple hundred batteries/minute.

[naive ingot]

I'm more just thinking about more uses for Wells.

[median heath]

Only people I know who have sulfur problems are people who think Turbo is good to use for fuel 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

More uses for Nitrogen gives us more uses for Wells without changing much tbh 🤷‍♂️

[naive ingot]

True that, I guess I mean, more diversity for Wells.

[median heath]

Or if they increased the output of Water Wells.

Giving a boost to Water Well output would be

[proven prawn]

efficiency ratings from what I can tell are frame dependent, aka the lower your frame rate, the lower that number will become, this is true regardless if they are 100% satisfied or not, or more simply as others have said that particular ingame meter is unreliable given how its actually measured

[sullen cloud]

What does this teach me? That overall production line (regarding machines that produce inputs) is still at 100% efficiency while the final output is just 99% of expected output?

[median heath]

That if you did the math right and built correclty it is 100% regardless of what the machine says.

[frosty owl]

To have a flat power line you can use buffers, but vehicles should be placed on a different grid (I usually just use geothermal or "previous powerplants" if I'm still not there yet)

About testing it on a "large save": no I haven't, but it's just about scaling up things, there are no new variables at play that depend on size of the factory (other than how much of a headache figuring everything out is, of course )

The easiest, albeit cumbersome, way I found to troubleshoot big amounts of machines is isolating the power lines of groups of machines and troubleshooting the power draw of each group

[sullen cloud]

It’s not the size of the save or the factory, which gives me a headache. But the trust in a game with some bugs and performance issues to display the figure(s), at which you aimed your playstyle

But grouping of power is a good tip. I will consider if I want to invest that additional time to rework my power network into different circuits

[frosty owl]

Game performance just make the (aforementioned) max throughput bugs worse. As long as you learn how to account for those, there would be nothing unexpectedly affecting your production
I can't believe I didn't think about it earlier, but let me dig up a post

[sullen cloud]

Because no one can really prove that performance issues with large saves do not impact efficiency. You can only make your math right, incorporate the issues and bugs you know of into your playstyle. Rest is thoughts and prayers. But power draw could be a good double-check

[frosty owl]

Unless you can prove there is a bug not listed here, there is nothing unexpected happening as performance decrease 👍
Though the fluid loss bug is obsolete now
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/tgcf17/reminder_for_all_pioneers_that_care_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Eg: a good rule of thumb atm would be keeping throughputs of MK2 pipes below ~570 and belts at less that ~95% capacity
Very rough numbers, best is to just stay as low as you feel you need to

[cinder silo]

Yeah water wells ought to chuck out more, It isn't really worth using them over bog standard extractors.

[median heath]

Exactly.

[gloomy palm]

what if we had to desalinate the water from water extractors before the water could be fed to machinery

granted they were placed on a saltwater source

[floral trout]

😄 what

14 ? xD

[gloomy palm]

🤔hmm

is that unusual

[floral trout]

in my map no xD

like this hypertube that teleports me

[gloomy palm]

oh dear

[floral trout]

just because o moved 100 meters my base xDDDDDDD

[gloomy palm]

how did you move it?

[floral trout]

satisfactory calculator

[gloomy palm]

hmmmm

[floral trout]

my base was under rocks

[gloomy palm]

and then some bugs happened?

[floral trout]

then i moved

[floral trout]

YES, funny bugs

[gloomy palm]

hmmmm

I think they warned that something like this could happen

[floral trout]

like, i had a 100 meters cable , but i destroyed it

[floral trout]

yes they did it

[gloomy palm]

ye

[floral trout]

:DD

[gloomy palm]

ameno

[floral trout]

dorime

[gloomy palm]

🙏

[floral trout]

[gloomy palm]

[floral trout]

[gloomy palm]

xD

always

[floral trout]

yes

now, let me resolve the bugs on this big boy here https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/932761153703149659/996894945153662976/unknown.png?width=1202&height=676

[gloomy palm]

nice

enjoy

[floral trout]

i will uehuheuhe

From where im taking damage

[naive ingot]

Edge of map, maybe?

[median heath]

100%

[cinder silo]

Due to the the ground and first floor refineries generating twice the HOR than the second and third, I've had to create this comically complex labyrinth of pipes to balance it, still need to add pumps.

[worthy island]

Hello, will this work as "variable input priority" water recycling for alumina? Does the junction on the floor need to be vertical? Thanks in advance. I'd usually just turn it on and find out, but it takes so long for mistakes to show up with pipes and I have a few dependencies waiting on this pipe layout.

[wind spade]

the junction needs to be vertical

[median heath]

I actually need to test this now, lol.
Because I know for VOP junctions it doesn't strictly have to be vertical depending on how you build it.

[worthy island]

tyvm

[unborn ermine]

So I remember you guys talking about percentages and parts/min in constructors the other day.
Quick question regarding that.

If a percent value ends to the 3rd decimal position (0.001) or the 4th instead of a repeating value(with the exception of oil recycling stuff), this number will actually work in machines properly with no funny business?

Just doing a little theoretical factory building and was fiddling with some numbers and this came crawling back into my mind.

[vapid gorge]

Correct.
Though if you can manage it with the oil recyc you should also be fine in that regard

But this specifically to manage an absolute timed system. You can have repeating decimals and manage the clock setting for it and may wind up in a tiny hiccup every few thousand hours?

[unborn ermine]

I know systems like compact coal are just a pain for a few specific coal gen setups
aka the one I made a while back has a very brief starving cycle

[cinder silo]

Oil recyc is taking me time to setup, I decided to go with it anyhow because using not that many fewer refineries, getting half plastic/rubber & wastefully sinking thousands of coke was unappealing.

[unborn ermine]

Yeah or using coke for steel, when you may or may not have steel sorted

[vapid gorge]

Hmm I can't think of an ingrained problem with compact coal to make a starving cycle HAVE to happen?

[cinder silo]

I don't have the coke steel recipe, and there is mountains of coal so I'm going to use solid steel when that rebuild is done.

[vapid gorge]

Doing a functional recyc plant also really teaches you how to lay pipe properly

[cinder silo]

Figured I'd take on the challenge, it's certainly more complex than my aluminium refinery.

The plant is likely going to sputter in to life though due to the length of pipes so I'll have temporary overflow sinks to take in plastic & rubber at the midway point until the pipes fill.

[vapid gorge]

a couple tips - make sure you have properly loop manifolded basically everything. -have overflow sinks for polymer and residual rubber - have a residual rubber buffer for the primary feed stock

[vapid gorge]

I highly recommend flooding hte entire system and machines with fuel before you let the rubber feed stock through

[cinder silo]

I just double checked, 0 polymer, just plastic/rubber + fuel in, rubber/plastic out, the infeed refineries chuck out hor that is going to the blenders to make the fuel for the outfeeds.

[vapid gorge]

Well the polymer resin gets turned into Residual Rubber for the initial feed stock right?

[cinder silo]

Oil to plastic in 60 refineries, each 20 plastic & 10 hor, oil to rubber in the other 60 refineries, each gets 20 rubber + 20 hor, the resulting hor from all 120 refineries will net enough for the blenders to create the fuel, the other 120 refineries takes in all the rubber, plastic and fuel, to net 2400 rubber & plastic.

[unborn ermine]

Just because you mentioned it, I decided to look at my build and double check a thing.
APPARENTLY
There was a very slight % error?
I checked the SCIM generator tool and plugged in my numbers and such, was using one gen (the underclocked one of 17 being fed 120 compact coal) was set to 75%, but the planner was saying to have it clocked to 74.82%.
Now its running smoothly

[vapid gorge]

That makes much more sense. I can't think of any example of a system that can't be run smoothly

Except apparently Fine Concrete? XD

But not a recipe I use

[unborn ermine]

I remembered doing it before with no issues too, so it made more sense than not that there was an error.

[vapid gorge]

Oh...you're not turning all the oil to HOR first?

[cinder silo]

Nope, I get back exactly the hor needed to recycle the plastic/rubber I am producing in order to double what I get.

[vapid gorge]

Ah ok not the standard recyc plant then. Nm 🙂

[cinder silo]

I've never built a recyc plant before.

[vapid gorge]

Ah did you want to maximise how much plastic/rubber you get?

[cinder silo]

I am wondering where I went wrong with the design, I already revised the older design that used 60 refineries to just sink all the hor, I added another 60 refineries & the blenders to make the current build.

[vapid gorge]

well there is no 'wrong' really.

The pure basic recipes will get you 1 plastic/rubber per 2 oil (maybe 2:3? Can't remember)

The absolute max process gets you 3:1 so huuuuge boost

you can do half way systems too, you just get less end product

[unborn ermine]

iirc there are two kinds of recycling, max rubber to get more HOR for fuel and recycling. 300 oil -> 166.666~ plastic and rubber
And the other which uses HOR alt to start, getting like ... 300 oil -> 183.333~ plastic and rubber

Thats without blenders

I have to confirm, its either 183.333~ or 1-1

[cinder silo]

Due to a redesign part way through, this complex web of pipes appeared, I haven't brought water in yet nor hooked up the initial oil feed that is brought in via 8 pipes from below.

My own fault for building a four floor refinery.

[vapid gorge]

It happens XD

[unborn ermine]

ah the HOR method uses water for doing residual recipe, which gets the 183.333~
So if there is no water, you are stuck with the regular non HOR method.

[cinder silo]

I'll need four pumps to ensure the extra HOR from the lower levels to boost the top two floors, that produce less HOR than the bottom floors due to plastic only getting 10 vs rubbers 20.

I'm using water to convert HOR to dilute fuel, which will be just enough to flip 1200 rubber & plastic, to 2400 plastic ^ rubber.

[vapid gorge]

Yeah It sounds like you'd have to do a full rebuilt for the Max Recyc system.

It basically involves turning all oil into HOR, then diluted fuel, resin to res rubber, then do recycled loops

[cinder silo]

This is the entire stack, fairly compact considering it's 240 refineries & 24 blenders (12 clocked)

From the described loop though, It does seem I would need to demolish the entire stack and start over.

[unborn ermine]

Its amazing what blenders can do for you
183.333~ each into 450 each

[vapid gorge]

is everything heavily overclocked? If not you could probably rig it up with just some repiping?

[cinder silo]

Tbh I didn't even think to convert directly to Hor.

[vapid gorge]

it happens 😄

[cinder silo]

The refineries aren't clocked at all, only blenders to allow for level fuel flow.

The piping is about 80% done, only the oil hookup from below is needed.

[vapid gorge]

You could probably convert it then. Though you might not get it into neat sections.

or you might be able to. Don't have all the plans in front of me XD

overclocked blenders can handle a LOT of fuel

[cinder silo]

Ahh I don't have the residual alts at all, that kinda sinks that until a later date.

[vapid gorge]

so.. you don't technically need the residual alts, it just makes it a bit more efficient.

if you hand feed starting rubber stock and then loop later rubber back in it also works

[unborn ermine]

Yeah the chart there was going for "maximised" values for each

[vapid gorge]

but I'd wait for the res rubber recipe before I made a big plant.

[cinder silo]

Total of 3600 oil in to get me 2400 plastic & 2400 rubber out with my current build, this is as of now my largest rubber/plastic combined refinery to date.

[vapid gorge]

My first mega plant was a 3000 oil to 9000 rubber/plastic

[cinder silo]

9000 of each?

[vapid gorge]

total

so 3:9 vs 3:4 ratio of yours

[cinder silo]

Yeah that's a pretty serious difference.

[vapid gorge]

yeah with all the alts end game petro is basically turning it all into HOR, then fuel, and then you decide what you're doing with it

If you need that much. But rubber and plastic are so good in other alt recipes

[cinder silo]

I still need to go get the water, that's going to be a pipeline similar to this one.

[stable ingot]

someone wants to play?

[vapid gorge]

#looking-for-group-old

[stable ingot]

ok thanks

[cinder silo]

Slightly smaller pipeline even, I only need 8 pipes instead of 12 to allow for easy splitting between floors.

[vapid gorge]

for a full recyc change?

[cinder silo]

To feed the build as is.

[vapid gorge]

Ah right yeah, more blended fuel probably means more water

[unborn ermine]

a TON more water

Just doing the HOR setup I posted earlier with the blenders, thats 800/min water per 300/min input oil

Thats 9600/min water extra for that build if you ended up using that same base HOR alt recipe (3600/min oil iirc for that)

[frosty owl]

VIPs can be incredibly finicky. Best is to have all involved pipe segments (the ones going in/out of the junctions) EXACTLY as shown in the VIP layout: horizontal/vertical and with no bends. Even just placing pumps differently (though still within acceptable headlift) can cause the VIP to not work

[cinder silo]

I learned that one painfully, had one bent VIP that didn't work, and another was merely shorter, that didn't work either.

[frosty owl]

I once made a perfect VIP where the priority pipe came from an industrial buffer.... Didn't work: I had to add a pump between the buffer and the VIP, despite the buffer having a pump right before it 🤷‍♂️

[cinder silo]

VIP has a mind of its own, or at the very least it's one of the dark arts.

[oblique hollow]

buffer does its own compensation magic

and yes VIP is very much pipe voodoo

[frosty owl]

Compensation magic?

[oblique hollow]

something about flow in flow out and relative head lift

point being pump into buffer doesnt yield the same head lift and flow until buffer is full

[worthy island]

I will run a sink and overflow packaged water as well, just in case

Thank you for the advice. I'm actually enjoying pipes in this build.

[cinder silo]

I find just sending the wastewater to a coal station to be less prickly, you don't need to manufacture cans to dump the water & you get electric to boot.

[worthy island]

It only took 38k MW for me to learn how pipes work. Total guesswork up until this point.

[frosty owl]

Sushi belting is easier

[worthy island]

i love this idea. dammit.

[cinder silo]

I'll see how mine goes when I get the circuit boards to it 😄 , I can't wait tbh, the factory is so compact!

[worthy island]

i went with packaged water because this build is nitrogen and advanced aluminium. so basically oil + bauxite. there is no limestone nearby.

but there is coal. hmmmm

There is so much coal here. And I love building power. This is really tempting.

[cinder silo]

While I do like being able to do horizontal beams and the like, the one consequence of the change is it makes building in-water supports as pictured here a real pain, I have to ladder in to the water to do it now, before it would place like a foundation from just aside.

[worthy island]

OK, I'm going to do the coal sink as well. But I'm going to belt the plastic and sink excess water there too. Just because I think producing plastic and shipping it 900m to sink water is hilarious.

[cinder silo]

Overflow sinking works to keep the place rolling at 100%

[frosty owl]

Computer sushi?

[cinder silo]

Computer, super computer & rcu in one sushi, it's taking me far longer than I hoped to rebuild my demolished base to wake up that factory.

[frosty owl]

Even better than just computers

[cinder silo]

This place, the only separate input in the end is QW due to it's numbers.

All the output is a single line designed to go to storage.

It'll take overflow circuits and the likes with it.

I'm going with the same approach when I start again with HMF

Same again for turbo motors, motors and all that jazz as well 😄

[frosty owl]

Seems like you're reapply enjoying the approach... What's the pros and cons compared to how you used to build before?

[cinder silo]

Takes a bit more planning than my prior approach, but it's far more compact.

My previous approach, 'nuff said.

It's easy to see why I blew up my entire base and started over.

[cinder silo]

Well, water is a solved issue, epic pipeline to the coast.

[median heath]

LOUD BLU

[cinder silo]

Contrasts with the sand 🙂

[vapid gorge]

why do people not build next water XD

[median heath]

I like using Water Wells

[cinder silo]

Well until I was reminded that recycled rubber/plastic existed, I didn't intend to use water at the refinery, and there is no way I'm demolishing to move it, so one huge completely flat pipeline it is.

[finite sun]

long pipes are about the easiest thing to build in terms of setting up long-range transport

[vapid gorge]

Eh you could say that about long range belts too

[finite sun]

it's far easier than belts even

[vapid gorge]

couldn't build the extractors on the river that those are heading to?

[cinder silo]

Not enough room, definitely not to make it tidy.

[vapid gorge]

You don't overclock water extractors I take it?

[cinder silo]

Generally no, water isn't that scarce at source.

[vapid gorge]

Ah, I loathe fields of water extractors. I hide and overclock them as a high priority

[cinder silo]

I put them in buildings or neat rows as best I can.

[white bloom]

Water is basically infinite, as many Water Extractors as you can fit in the ocean. Building fewer but overclocking them wastes more power for the same water production rate.

[vapid gorge]

Doesn't matter, it's hideous.

[white bloom]

Though to be fair I too at least abstain from underclocking them, which in theory is even more efficient, for the sake of my sanity.

[cinder silo]

Not finished yet but here is the water source for the refinery.

[white bloom]

Really hope they pull through with the underclocking power curve rework. Unfortunate it was delayed past U6.

[median heath]

It wasn't delayed?

It was just decided to not be done.

[finite sun]

I hope they won't
it'll make under/overclocking entirely pointless

[white bloom]

depends on what the new system is

[median heath]

The new system would be linear.
Which was decided to not be done for U6.

[cinder silo]

Back in a bit 👋

[finite sun]

I don't think anything but "linear" was even mentioned

[white bloom]

for now. it may and hopefully will still be done later. When they originally announced it they were unsure whether or not it would be in U6. Yes it turned out it wasn't, but it fortunately isn't entirely off the table yet afaik.

[median heath]

It may and hopefully will not be implemented from my perspective.

[white bloom]

they were collecting suggestions from the community

[median heath]

It can be done at any time. They decided not to for now. 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Pretty sure the suggestions collected is why they didn't go ahead with it in U6.

[white bloom]

because building 100x buildings at 1% clock speed, which is heavily incentivized by the current system, is so much fun. Status quo bias.

[median heath]

It's not heavily incentivized, but ok.

[white bloom]

it is incentivized

[median heath]

How?

[finite sun]

it's a tradeoff
if you want to, you can do that and even receive some bonus for all your work

[white bloom]

same produce for less power cost the lower your clock speed for unlimited buildings.

They could fix this by having underclocking linear, and overclocking remain as is.

[finite sun]

however, any time spent on building 1%-factories could also be spent on building more power and normal factories

and I'm very certain that for the 2nd case you'll waste less time.

[median heath]

If power is a factor in your decision-making, you're building power wrong.

[white bloom]

resources can only be obtained up to a hard capped rate per minute. 1% building is not viable for speedrunning the tiers for obvious reasons, but it's inevitable for implementing the optimal endgame build that maximizes awesome ticket production or just about any goal you can set and measure.

[median heath]

Also yes, I strongly believe the current system is a trade-off.
Altering makes it.. not a trade-off.

[finite sun]

um yes, and so?
are we talking about the moment in the game where you literally use all the world's nodes? Otherwise - find more nodes.

[white bloom]

there is no solar power or such in this game. All power is obtained by consuming resources that could otherwise be utilized otherwise. Yes, power is always a factor in decision making, because it just factors into resource efficiency, and resource efficiency is always a factor

[median heath]

Tell me when you get to consuming 1.13 TW on your world then you can tell me how power is a factor in your decision-making.

[white bloom]

yes exactly, that's what I mean

[finite sun]

any such situations are vastly out of normal game scope.

[white bloom]

if you produce that much power you're being vastly inefficient. The optimal usage of all resources on the map for maximizing your awesome points only consumes about 600 GW.
EDIT: That is WITHOUT underclocking, everything unlimited running at 100%.

[finite sun]

in other words, you went into the realm of a very niche players which spend thousands of hours in a single save, and then in that far away realm of yours suddenly underclocked factories are viable

[white bloom]

fair point, it's not a big practical concern for most of the game experience.

[median heath]

Ok, so all 10 players in the world that actually build for using all resources on the map... should dictate a change in a fundamental trade-off of overclocking...

Also Max Nuke isn't inefficient. It's actually the most efficient way to do power.

[white bloom]

It's inefficient with regards to maximizing your awesome points production per minute, subject to the constraint that you have to produce at least as much power as you consume.

[median heath]

But if you're a firm believer that clocking needs to change nothing we can say will dissuade you.
Just how you will never change our minds either.
So this discussion is effectively pointless 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Imagine caring about maximizing awesome points...

[white bloom]

because all that Quartz, Caterium and extra Sulfur going into Infused Uranium Cells is better used elsewhere to produce more valuable items you can sink, so you ideally mix Encased and Infused Uranium Cells in a way that barely produces enough power to run everything at leaves as much resources otherwise to the other production paths

[median heath]

Again... caring about awesome points...

[finite sun]

I'd kindly suggest mods before doing something like "maximize awesome points/m"

it might be a lot more interesting

[median heath]

I'm going to agree with this even given my stance on mods.

[white bloom]

It's the only type of infinite progress the game actually measures. After the last space elevator stage, there otherwise is nothing else to do.

[finite sun]

other that building stuff

or playing a new game and building stuff

[median heath]

Nothing else to do?

Maybe, idk, build whatever the fuck you want because it looks cool? (What MOST players do)

Game doesn't need infinite progress.
Having a point where a game ends is 100% fine. And how most games made actually work.

[white bloom]

to make it clear: I'm a huge fan of the nonlinear power cost on finite buildings, i.e. Miners and Oil Extractors and Well Pressurizers. In fact, I would even propose to raise the exponent on those buildings even further, to make the trade-off between power and resource more conscious and impactful here.

I just feel like it doesn't serve a real purpose for the unlimited buildings (Constructors etc). I mean you guys are right, it does in the sense that it takes longer to build and set up... but in the long term this one-time setting up always amortizes. So players who care about long-term progress are implicitly being told to do this tedious 100x 1% stuff.

[median heath]

They aren't being told.
They are being offered options and which one they take is up to them.

I OC the shit out of things because it makes building ratios easier.

[white bloom]

I guess there is different kind of players finding value in a game like Satisfactory here. Some people really enjoy minmaxing.

[median heath]

Like Diluted Fuel.
All of my HOR Refineries are clocked to 1.25 because it makes them 1:1 with Blenders.

[median heath]

Minmaxing is subjective based on what you care about.

If you care about space, your min-max will look different than someone who cares about power.
If you care about items that you will use, your min-max will look different than someone who cares about points.

[white bloom]

The goal is subjective, yes. How any particular goal is optimally achieved is objective.

[median heath]

Thats why nearly all the alt recipes are good.
Because they are tradeoffs.
And you will consider certain alts to be shit based on what you, personally, care about.

[white bloom]

Yep, that is true.

[median heath]

Then you get into WP

Certain people care about Global WP. Others (like myself) care about Local WP.

So the game doesn't force you down any particular path.
It gives you options. You choose your path based on what matters to you.

[white bloom]

Weighted Point analysis does not produce optimal solutions. It was only ever meant to serve as a quick heuristic estimate on how "efficient" a recipe is on average, but it's not accurate. As in, only ever selecting the recipes with best global WP doesn't result in a production chain with best global output.

I'm not sure how well this is actually known in the community. It's just a guideline, nothing more. Not a definitive criterion. Often it will suggest the right choice for a particular goal but not always, because as you just correctly pointed out, often what is best depends on the goal.

[oblique hollow]

thats why we are also trying to update the wiki with subjective summaries

so its not just the table with WP and power

a different metric I like using is weighted machine efficiency and speed

heres what that can look like

[shadow mist]

I'll do spreadsheets later (^ good stuff!); but i like to visually play with numbers before I settle down on doing the boring stuff... so can someone dummy check this and just give it a once over and verify it makes sense please

TL;DR 5 maxed iron input (780 lines) and 9 coal inputs; using pure steel recipe (2 ingots + 2 coal for 3 steel ingot). Needs 8 extractors for ~2168 water, and 65 refineries (yuck) and 65 foundries (yuck again)

looking roughly 10gw and a production of ~9750 per minute

[median heath]

I will never understand people who do their factories in terms of belts.

[snow dove]

fr

[unborn ermine]

Belts like "I have a couple of Mk whatever going in" kinda deal?
That imho feels like the f||act||orio thought process leaking out, with main busses and such.

[wind spade]

even in factorio I rarely use "I have X belts of Y"

[fierce ruin]

So I’m going to have about 11.5 full belts of 780….. how would I best have this go into a train system….

Like would I do another train station?

[wind spade]

11.5 full belts of 780?

[fierce ruin]

Yes

[wind spade]

so... you don't have full belts 😄

[fierce ruin]

11 full belts of 780 and 0.5 belt of a half

[unborn ermine]

Gotta love grammar conversations

really move the chat along

[fierce ruin]

Just trying to figure out. I already have 1 station full of iron (8 additional full 780 belts)

[fierce ruin]

Yep. Totally does help too

[signal nimbus]

I could be wrong, but I think greeny is referring to a bug where you don't actually get 780 ipm.

[fierce ruin]

How much do we get then?

[unborn ermine]

Nah its just grammar
You can work around not having the throughput (tunnelrat shows us how)

iirc you get somewhere around 750-760ish? per "full" straight connection of 780 belts. (maybe more, I havent been inspecting this much)
aka belt to belt connection.

Someone will pop in and correct me

[river night]

a single segment would be fine, eg. just a short machine to machine run, but as soon as you start connecting them for longer distances, or add splitters etc, calculating with 750 max is usually safe, unless its very long

[unborn ermine]

You can immediately split a belt out of a miner, and send the two belts to a location, then re-merge the two lines right before they need to be 780 and they should be fine. (pretty much in the one belt before the buffers for a train ect)

Its always better (unless you are 100% set on 780) to just undershoot on a mk5 belt.

[wind spade]

no, I'm referring to the fact that he has "full belts", but has "0.5 of a belt" 😄

[unborn ermine]

Yep grammar

[cinder silo]

That's the less crashy way to do it, you'll get full throughput assuming you don't stuff up at the merge end with more than one belt section, the other approach is belt welding, don't do that over four kilometres though, the game engine seems to hate it and the entire game just freezes, no crash report but it's locked up.

[unborn ermine]

I did my part!
I just try to do my best explaining stuff, and if im wrong, others will come in an explain it better/fix my mistakes

[cinder silo]

Before you ask, I have tried no fewer than seventeen times with monster merged belts, all hard locks, my cpu is an i9 12900k 🙂

[unborn ermine]

(except Greeny will fix the grammar )

[wind spade]

hey I just found it funny

especially since it was literally the next message after the whole "don't measure things in belts" discussion

[worthy island]

If you assume you get 750 per belt, that's about 12 belts. Each platform can accept two belts.

[cinder silo]

I've made some epic mistakes myself haha, twelve pumps backwards, trying to get 800ppm past a 780 belt when they don't even manage that due to belt-to-belt floating point issues, my list of epic booboos is surprisingly long 🤣 😵‍💫

[wind spade]

I'm almost sure that 750 per belt is still too much for platforms

[fierce ruin]

Ah

[unborn ermine]

I almost did that honestly, one of my planned iron/steel lines was missing a whole 150 iron ore/min that I could not remember where it was coming from

[cinder silo]

I'm inclined to agree, I have a huge bauxite highway that "should" yeah airquotes there, be at 780, I just assumed I lost 80 per belt and injected 100 in to the line part the way through intake to push it back to 800 using a seventh belt.

Thing is refineries STILL even for a second, yellow light, it's aggrevating.

[wind spade]

well my point was mostly related to the "platform blocking input when loading/unloading"

[cinder silo]

The platform blocking issue is best fixed with an intake/output can to buffer.

[worthy island]

Ah OK. I only have a few stations that are using the full 750 and it works there. Most of my stations have excess so I haven't noticed.

Round it down to 700, just to be safe. Now you have 13 belts. I'd keep assuming 750 just because prime numbers tilt me.

[shadow mist]

in the math crunching Ive been doing, 13 belts into 65 machines seemed to be the sweet spot of front loading (Barely) while having a somewhat sane layout possible

[wind spade]

that's just each belt into 5 machines 🤷‍♂️

[shadow mist]

its just a number that plays nicely with things, as it seems everything Im looking to do requires 65 machines to get the throughput im after. I imagine by design somewhere lol

[vapid gorge]

with all the differnt alt recipes I'd say coincidence

[muted goblet]

How much MW does an oil extractor take when boosted to 250%? Trying to plan a kickstart power plant and need to know if an impure oil node with an extractor on 100% (1 fuel refinery + 3,33 gens) is enough to kickstart a single 600m³/min power plant

[sand epoch]

Build it and check the readout?

[muted goblet]

What a great tip, thank you!

[wary tulip]

Depends on how your power plant is configured and what alts you are using.

[muted goblet]

I just wanted to know what the extractor takes at 250% since im in the office and can't take a look ingame rn. But i can use the calculator to plan my factories. 😄

[sullen cloud]

!wikisearch fuel generator

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=fuel generator

[muted goblet]

!wikisearch oil extractor

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=oil extractor

[sullen cloud]

there are the numbers you Need. 250 overclock is 202% power with fuel gens

[muted goblet]

Nah, dont need that number. But the number from the extractor is what i need. 173MW on 250% overclock. Didnt know that command exists, thank you!

[sullen cloud]

Yeah, nvm

[muted goblet]

but that means my plan is perfectly fine, i can use an impure node with a 100% extractor, a single refinery and 3,33 fuel gens (powered by 3 biomass burners) to power up one of the "real" powerplants (as long as i dont have good alts) with a pure oil node

its just a backup plan, but i had a missing powerline once and had to remove powerlines and kickstart my system manually once, so i'd rather have a plan for my next power plant 🙂

[haughty spindle]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production I recommend this one website

[deep quarry]

**Comparison: Swamp vs NorthenForest **
***Goal: start to end, semi-speedrun, solo. *
**Question: Can the Swamp be a better place for an all-in-one area than NorthenForest?

For many iterations i couldn't choose anything else than NorthenForest... regardless the major downside of 2km of foundations to get Nitrogen and Bauxite.
Considering the Update 6 environment overhaul, i set my eyes on Swamp and, at first look, it seems viable to have everything within 1km.
Any tought is appreciated in the #thread

[frosty owl]

You can check out power draw for different clocks (per machine) in SFTools too

[sullen cloud]

does the u.object limit still apply for total object count in the whole save/world or does it only apply to (sub-)tiles?

[frosty owl]

I can't recall well...
I think either the former or a mix of both (as in some items may be included depending on tile)

[sullen cloud]

ok, thanks. maybe I can summon @fallow vector and his incredible brain and database has something about it

[oblique hollow]

entire map

you cant possible exceed the object count in just one tile

besides, all machines are always loaded

they dont disappear when you enter a different tile

[fallow vector]

?

[oblique hollow]

unreal object limit

map wide or tile wide only

[sullen cloud]

ok, thanks. but what does 'machines are always loaded' mean? I get that machines can consist of several objects. but what does 'load' means?

[oblique hollow]

its always present in game memory, object wise

it doesnt vanish and thus doesnt reduce object count

if machines vanished outside a certain distance, we would have a dynamic objetcs-per-tile limit

[fallow vector]

https://archive.satisfactory.video/topics/technology/unreal-engine/object-limit/

[sullen cloud]

thanks. I already watched some of the clips, but I will give more a try

[fallow vector]

@oblique hollow it being garbage collection-related, the older version of the constructor was like 4 uobjects, at least two of which were for rendering the conveyor holes- would lod not skip those from loading if you loaded a save up and never went near them?

[oblique hollow]

not sure honestly

[quasi surge]

So i have 3 pipes each with 400 fuel/m. I want to split those 3 into 10, which will each carry 120/m. So, if i split each of the 3, in to 3, using valves that set 2 to 120, and 1 to 160. Then i have the 3 160 pipes split into 2, 1 with 120, and one with 40. And the 3 40 pipes merge into 1 120 pipe. If i use valves correctly, will this work?

[deft lichen]

put a valve on each input (unlimited) and output (120) pipe and you're set

pipes don't split like belts

[thorn bane]

you dont need valves for that right?

[quasi surge]

So something like this? @deft lichen

[quasi surge]

I believe Valves help with the physics of fluids. so without them the fluid would try and push to much in some pipes then not have enough for the others.

At least thats how ive experienced it lol

Any problems ive ever had with pipes usually are fixed with proper valve use

[fringe pawn]

I don't even know that you need the valves.

Pictured solution would probably be fine without them

If it's for fuel generators, just clock the end machine of each row to 1%, then when the whole system is saturated turn them back to 100%.

[deft lichen]

yes exactly

[quasi surge]

Okay. Gonna mess around with it. Thanks

[median heath]

People tend to over-use valves a lot from what I have seen.
Which is odd to me considering how sometimes when they are necessary for the solution, there isn't a valve in sight.

[unborn ermine]

You think valves might have solved my VIP voodoo magic issue I had earlier today?
(in #old-questions-and-help )
#old-questions-and-help message

Everything is running fine now, but man... it made no sense why the buffer inside the extractor was filling and killing the pipes.

Whoops I think I should have pinged @deft lichen ?
Well more eyes and ideas 👀

[quasi surge]

Possibly. I find sometimes too, if you have pipes accepting fluids while in the process of building your production line, slowly the machines fill up. And it takes a long ass time for them to unload and balance once the entire assembly line is done. So ive found flushing the entire pipeline and emptying machines helps.

[unborn ermine]

Yeah I was thinking and trying that, but instead of the system just taking fluid out of the extractor to, ya know do work, it said "nah imma just stop working and hold all the water for ya 🙂 "

[quasi surge]

Yeah pipes have proven to be spicy lmaooo. Theres a number of different things it could be. Sometimes its as simple as deleting the pipe and rebuilding it.

[gloomy palm]

@muted narwhal @proven prawn

[proven prawn]

Ewww

bring in the caterium computers

[deft lichen]

No idea how to use VIP junctions, but @oblique hollow should

[winter haven]

how do i figure out what ratio to use to split my tier 1 iron factory up?

i'm rebuilding in a new area with better miners but i'm not sure how much of each item i should have it produce

[oblique hollow]

there is no clear rule for that

[finite sun]

if you just making stuff in low amounts to use for buildings and such - use at least one 100% assembler for rotors and one for modular frames
reinf iron plates could be produced a bit slower, they lose their importance after mk3 belts

and of course keep producting iron plates and iron rods in small amounts

if you want to mass-produce something in big numbers - don't. Wait until you understand where you gonna use it.

[winter haven]

would it make sense to make a separate factory for just tier 1 materials to use for building and such and then another for tier 1 materials to be turned into things like rotors and frames or should i just have it all in one factory and have a container that fills with each item before the overflow moves on to be processed into higher level items?

[finite sun]

it entirely depends on how you want to build it

personally, I use up something like 120/m iron to make everything iron in low amounts
but that's not the only way to play

later, you'll likely produce things differenly

you'll unlock better recipes and such

[median heath]

@winter haven you can't know exact numbers of things until you, personally decide how many items you, personally want to make.
Once you have made that decision you can do the exact math.

[deft lichen]

@winter haven a good approach is to do ore->result with separate factories, such as ore->rods/plates, ore->reinforced plates, ore->rotors, rather than converting all ore to rods and plates and then trying to divide it into further processing
only once you get to more complex parts (T4+), you start combining these

[winter haven]

is there a general ratio for what items are consumed more often so i have a general estimate of how to divide it up?

[median heath]

Nope. Everything comes down to what you, personally choose to do. Like I said.

[deft lichen]

I think you need a little more rods, due to screws 😛
just start off and change as you go

[finite sun]

what's going to be consumed depends on how you're gonna produce things later. There are many ways.

[winter haven]

i'm a bit confused what you mean, are you saying it's better to make a dedicated factory for each higher tier item?

[median heath]

You need more rods due to screws until you get alts that remove screws from your recipes.

[deft lichen]

opposite, a dedicated factory for each primitive item (>=T3), then a factory combining these primitive items into more complex ones (T4+)

[median heath]

@winter haven just play the game and adjust as you go -- this is why buildings give 100% refund. You are supposed to delete and rebuild multiple times as you play.
You won't really get into permanent building until like T7.

[deft lichen]

worry more about what you need to progress right now rather about what's to come, rebuilding is mostly inevitable

[median heath]

New buildings will change what you need.
New alts will change what you need.
How you decide to use both of those things will change what you need.

[finite sun]

my very first serious factory (that stays for at least a dozen of hours or so) typically looks like this - however, these outputs are not to be used for more production, this is only stuff that I need for building.

[winter haven]

thank you, i think what i was getting caught up on is the idea that i want buildings to be more permanent so i was trying to plan too far ahead for things i can't really determine yet

[median heath]

Is this your first run?

[finite sun]

you're unlikely to build anything really permanent until at least T5/6

[winter haven]

yes, i'm working on unlocking phase 2 right now and i just finished a coal plant so i wanted to rebuild my base in a better location and begin building more permanent factories since my current base is pretty ugly and isnt really providing what i need anymore

[median heath]

May I give you my new player advice?

[winter haven]

sure !!

[median heath]

Drop this Discord, entirely (for now).
Play the game by yourself without any guides, hints, wikis, or help all the way to T7.
Experience the game for yourself, meet the challenges and solve the problems yourself so you learn how to think about the game.
Get your own perspective on how things work. Once you're at T7 then come back and you'll be in a much better spot to compare your experience with others instead of just having information handed to you.

You lose so much of the journey if you are just gifted answers.

[still blade]

Is this right so far?

[winter haven]

i'll keep that in mind, thank you. i'll probably stay in the server for stuff like building questions but i'll avoid asking logistics questions and try to figure things out on my own

[still blade]

EIB = Encased Industrial beams, I'm using the Encased Industrial Pipe recipe

[sullen cloud]

you can double check your math with satistools #math-and-meta message

[still blade]

Close enough

[median heath]

These words should never be uttered when making something in Satisfactory.

[still blade]

its good this time, a very small overflow

[little heron]

lmao

[median heath]

Not using Tools.
Oof

[still blade]

huh

[wind spade]

I wonder if this applies to me as well lol

[median heath]

Only if you give me your blue name 😉

[wind spade]

I can't promote other pple lol

But I meant my "first playthrough experience", that is still awaiting me lol

[vapid gorge]

I know this was a couple hours ago but your sanity will love you for being flexible early on

My preference of doing thing while going up tiers is to just dedicate 1 or 2 nodes to each basic item with room to expand constructor and smelters as tech increases.

Doing that means I could belt the items to higher tier factories.

I didn’t care too much if not enough of X or Y was being fed because I would just have buffers at the end and they’ll fill up eventually

Sev might also be right about the server too but it depends what you want in the game.

If you’re loving to dive into it and get really involved? Probably go through tiers 1-7 a couple times and get your teeth into it and ignore us XD

If it’s a fun sandbox eh do what you like.

The game is as deep as you want to make of it

[pulsar gale]

Can any help me with a method to do this split with MK3 belts?

[still trout]

one word man

manifold

[pulsar gale]

I know I need to manifold I am just struggling with getting that specific amount of Iron Ingots from the 18 smelters to the constructors.

Like how many smelters I should dedicate to which set of constructors if you get what I mean.

[still trout]

10 smelters to plates, 7 to rods, add a splitter to the 18th machine and split it into both lines

smelter throughput is 30/min

[stuck stratus]

mk3 belt only holding 270 is a problem to manifold all the ingots from smelters to plates... but iron plate constructor and smelter already have 1:1 ratio too, so can just direct feed those

[median heath]

Bottom side gets 1 belt of 270
Top gets one of 270
Overflow from top combines with the extra belt with remainder for bottom, injection manifold on bottom.

[still trout]

compleks

[median heath]

Not really

[old bolt]

Alternatively, do a 2 to 3 balancer, one line goes to rods, the other two each feed one half of plates.

[median heath]

Just takes many words to describe. Build simple.

[pulsar gale]

That actually works

[median heath]

It's what I do 😁

[pulsar gale]

Thanks again 👍

[still trout]

overkompleks

[median heath]

Imagine building balancers....

[still trout]

i do, for pure recipes

they're just so awful with output numbers

[median heath]

Only one that's awful is Pure Iron, which I almost never ever use. 🤷‍♂️

[still trout]

i can't do math with them nunbers so i basically make a ton of them, and make a conveyor filler which doubles as a manifold-type splitter merger

[median heath]

I just use base Iron Ingot

I'm never going to make 70k iron.
So using Pure is...meh

[old bolt]

Balancers are neat, as long as you don't go above 3x3. Then it gets messy.

[bleak slate]

whats an order of mergers and splitters that will end up with a split from 150 to 90/60

[still trout]

i'm extreme about max efficiency so i don't waste a drop of resources

[median heath]

Just 1 splitter will do that

[still trout]

manifold

[bleak slate]

ik i cant figure out how to make the manifold

[still trout]

we can

[median heath]

Single splitter will do that split.

[bleak slate]

no

[median heath]

75 will overload the 60 side, once it fills you have a perfect 90/60 split

[still trout]

yes

[bleak slate]

that would be 100 50

[still trout]

muffin

[median heath]

No, it wouldn't

[stuck stratus]

mk1 and mk2 belt would do that just fine

[still trout]

single splitter not splitter merger

[bleak slate]

actually yeah i forgot about belt limits

[median heath]

It would be 75/75
Which would cause the 60 side to fill.
Then you have a perfect 90/60

[bleak slate]

ok ty

too used to using mk5 or mk3 belts for everything

[median heath]

Using only mk5s you'd still get a perfect 90/60 off 1 splitter.

[bleak slate]

im not completely sure about how that works

feeding 1 belt in and 2 coming out?

[median heath]

For the third time:

75/75 split would overflow the side that takes 60

Once it fills you have a perfect 90/60 split

[stuck stratus]

that's just how a manifold works yeah, whenever all the consumers fill up, it'll backlog and then be up to full capacity

[bleak slate]

its going into storage which is the issue so no it wouldnt do that

the 60 side is

so the only thing limiting it is belt speed, not a machine

[still trout]

then make it not go into a storage

[median heath]

Then use a smart splitter to kick all 150 to the 90 side and then only the overflowing 60 gets routed to storage.

[bleak slate]

until it fills

[still trout]

besides, storage will fill up

[bleak slate]

ye

[still trout]

overloading the 150 w/ 90

[bleak slate]

ill just use a mk1 and mk3 belt since that will split clean

[median heath]

Learn to use Smart Splitters when you have things like this in the future.

They are very, very useful.

[bleak slate]

i do use smart splitters

[median heath]

Then this should have been simple.

[still trout]

shart splitter

[median heath]

Simple solution to your thing ^

[bleak slate]

i have an automatically sorting storage system that lets me dump an inventory into a box and it filters everything automatically

[still trout]

basic

[bleak slate]

i just havent thought out of the box in every way

yes ik its easy to make an autosorter

[median heath]

Shred the box.

Embrace sushi

[old bolt]

Neat

[still trout]

noo

not the sushi demon

[median heath]

You live in the box.

[still trout]

i dont even like sushi

it tastes fishy

[median heath]

@bleak slate embrace what you can do with Smart Splitters:

[still trout]

high throughput?

[worthy island]

Thanks for your advice on VIP. This one works perfectly (for now).

[median heath]

Make more modules.

[still trout]

no

those are good for low throughputs

[median heath]

No?

[bleak slate]

this is still my first world, but i tore down my old base and am currently in the process of rebuilding, heres my storage

[median heath]

Each module can handle X amount.
You need more, make more modules.

If a single item is higher throughput, just use injection manifold

[median heath]

Hopefully you're not storing things you don't need to...

[still trout]

making more modules requires the splitter infrastructure to make the new sushi lines

[median heath]

Not nearly as complex as you make it sound.

[still trout]

yeah cool

[bleak slate]

nah

[median heath]

Should I link the list just to check? 😁

[bleak slate]

sure

[median heath]

Non-consumable items worth storing:

Plate, RIP, Beam, EIB
Pipe, Rod, ECR
CSheet, ASheet, Plastic, Rubber
Frame, HMF, FMF
Wire, QW, Cable
Crystal, Osc
CB, HSC, AIL
Rotor, Stator, Motor, Turbo
Comp, RCU, Super
Casing, Cooling
Concrete, Silica

33 in total.

[bleak slate]

yeah thats all im storing

[median heath]

👍

[bleak slate]

not storing versatile framework or some crap

lol

[median heath]

People store Screws for some reason...

[still trout]

lol

[bleak slate]

if youve got a splitter sending the screws down to the storage it isnt really doing any harm

eventually maxes

[median heath]

It is because you're storing Screws....

That's an entire ISC of wasted space.

The shorter list is what to not store:

Screw
Heat Sink

[bleak slate]

i dont even have heat sinks unlocked yet lol

[worthy island]

i store heat sinks. you never know when you'll need to bulk craft thousands of cooling systems. which i also store.

[median heath]

Ew.

[bleak slate]

is there any other crafting use for concrete besides encased beams?

that im forgetting

[median heath]

!wikisearch Concrete

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Concrete

[median heath]

EIB, HMF, Nuclear stuff

[bleak slate]

ah i havent unlocked it yet

[median heath]

HMF usage is the Encased Frame alt.

(Arguably best alt)

[bleak slate]

not as fast as the one that uses screws and rubber but thats screws and rubber

[median heath]

Speed is the dumbest metric people try to use because it isn't a real metric in this game...

Production speed is merely a factor of how many buildings you need to reach the number you want.
"Space-saving" is the more accurate term.

[bleak slate]

i mean time is also a big currency in the game since resources are unlimited