math-and-meta

[clever bay]

wait crapola.......did I do this wrong? frickkkkk

[wind spade]

though my tool doesn't show miners, so idk if those will change things

if you could calculate the amount of miners required and their clock speeds, I can update it

[clever bay]

I'm blanking on where I got the 4 items from, looks like he updated the sheet i linked

although according to the tool that uses all of the oil, iron, copper and caterium

[versed violet]

check how many plutonium rods, convert to nuclear waste required and derive total nuke power from it? Should be more than what miners + factory uses

[clever bay]

I'm really pulling for that linear change to overlcocking lol

[wind spade]

the tool optimises power to be exactly as needed, so it's not wasting any resources on nuclear production and rather uses them for production of ADS and TPR

so unless I add support for miners (not in the mood for that, would take a few days of work), I can only estimate

[clever bay]

unless you put in the plutonium rods and rate as well but you'd need to add the amount of uranium rods you're producing as well

[wind spade]

based on the sheet, it needs ~118 GW of power to mine, I've set mine to 150 GW to have some extra (trains and stuff), and got this result

in no way I've been able to have nuclear pasta in there though

[clever bay]

right cause it takes a bajillion copper

for right now I'm using magic machines to fill in the gaps and test inputs. I'll ditch my pasta build then....frick

so wait question. Which is better? Copper/Iron alloy or pure copper/iron? The tool says pure https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=1KUj4nNMb1dHcncjTlon

[median heath]

Better is subjective.

[ruby quarry]

What can i read to better understand clock speeds

[median heath]

What's your question about them?

[ruby quarry]

i was reading about the 81 rule, and clean numbers. I don't understand it

[median heath]

Ok say a recipe puts out 60/min of something but you want 20, right?

That's impossible to do because 1/3 would require a clock speed of 0.33333333333333333-, and clock speeds are capped at the 4th decimal.
Telling the machine in the ppm slot to give you 20 would set the speed to 33.3333%

Which is only 19.99998 per minute, not 20.

Being able to type in a precise ppm to a machine is just there to make you feel better. The game doesn't really care because it doesn't work in ppm. It works in cycle times with respect to clock speed.

[modern escarp]

how many fuel generators one refinery can keep on. sorry my math is not good

[median heath]

Depends on what recipes you are using.

Each gen takes 12/min fuel.
So fuel amount / 12 = gens

[earnest glen]

it's 3.333

but is better if you build just 3 gens per refinery

[tropic hawk]

That is per cycle. How much per minute

[earnest glen]

and put a buffer at the end and flush it from time to time

[wind spade]

the tool says what's "better" for your production request + your limits + your recipes + optimisation for lowest weighted resource consumption. Change any of those and the "better" may change

[fringe pawn]

It's going to be interesting to see what resources they add to spire coast. Honestly I'm not sure how I feel about that, the intersection of Northern Forest and Rocky Desert is already really strong, adding resources to the Spire Coast just makes the area even better.

[median heath]

Mark said "supplemental" and then mentioned sulfur.
🤷‍♂️

So at a guess, sulfur, baux, and maybe a copper.

[fringe pawn]

If it gets sulfur+bauxite that'd make that watery passage at the border even better, as sulfur and bauxite are probably the most constrained resources.

[fringe pawn]

He also mentions iron, so easier coke steel is always a nice option.

[ornate shoal]

doubt about bauxite so far north

[median heath]

Why does "north" mean "no baux"?

[ornate shoal]

bauxite nodes are generally located in the center of the map. it's kind of a theme

[median heath]

Sure....

[ornate shoal]

do you think it would be a good idea to break that pattern?

if you put bauxite and sulphur near the cliffside spawn of northern forest, that would be a real powerhouse spawn

[fringe pawn]

I would say it's more that bauxite isn't in any start locations.

[ornate shoal]

the most western bauxite node is quite close to rocky desert spawn, it's just high up

[oblique hollow]

more sulfur just means instant scrap becomes even better

[wind spade]

technically you can already lower weight on beta and see what it prefers 🙂

[oblique hollow]

obviously instant

as it doesnt need oil

[wind spade]

oil is pretty cheap though 🤔

[wind spade]

I just checked, even adding 100k sulfur won't make instant scrap better 🤔

I guess that's because it's 5 bauxite -> 10 scrap in both cases. Electrode scrap needs just water (free) and 0.5 oil, instant needs 1.666 sulfur and 3.333 coal. So for instant to be beeter, 3.333 coal needs to be weighted lower than 0.5 oil, which isn't. So actually the key to making scrap better is adding more sulfur and more coal 😛

[oblique hollow]

dumb calc doesnt realize sulfur is rarely ever used

[wind spade]

flashbacks to people maxing turbofuel and thinking it's good

[oblique hollow]

turbo bad

instead maximize nuclear and instant, and behold yo only use 1/3 and 1/2 of all sulfur

[wind spade]

also even if you make sulfur free, it still doesn't pick instant because of the coal cost 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

how, coal is like..... its COAL

Coal vs Oil

[wind spade]

3.333 coal vs 0.5 oil

there would have to be 6.66 times more coal than oil

there's only 2.64 times more coal

[oblique hollow]

bleh

optimize for lowest building count when

[wind spade]

on beta 😛

[oblique hollow]

oh? that exists?

[wind spade]

yeah 🙂

[oblique hollow]

byproduct: Gas filters

im fucking dying

[wind spade]

yeah sometimes it's a bit weird regarding byproducts

if I understand it correctly, it tries to minimise byproducts if possible

and since power is free (for now), it just makes a few recipes to deal with byproduct

idk why it uses extra coal though 🤔

[oblique hollow]

it uses more oil too

[frosty owl]

Gas filters are the byproduct made during the interaction between your lungs and poisonous gases...

No wait... That wasn't it...

[median heath]

This.
Putting one far north in the Spire Coast guarded by some poison pillars or mobs, or heck put some rocks on top you have to detonate. That sounds fine by me.

I don't think the goal of baux is "only in the middle of the map"

[oblique hollow]

but what if it is

its about travel distance it seems

[median heath]

?

[oblique hollow]

all the spawns are reasonably far away from the middle of the map

and so is bauxite

[median heath]

Spawns being reasonably far away from each other automatically makes them reasonably far away from the middle as well.

[oblique hollow]

whatever the large mountain in the middle of the map is made of, it seems to be made of a lot of bauxite

[oblique hollow]

making bauxite equidistant from nearly all spawns too

[ornate shoal]

you should then find bauxite from the southeast corner of the map as well. i think bauxite is meant to be hard to access, but in spire coast it never can be

[median heath]

Yay! for "never" in an unconfirmed discussion.

If you're both against them putting a node up there, so be it.

I see zero harm in them adding on though.

[vapid gorge]

Logical Fallacy.
Bauxite must be hard to get to =/= All hard places to get to has Bauxite

[ornate shoal]

how is ir fallacy, southeast corner isn't hard to get

if it was about distance from spawns, i think we could have bauxite there but we don't

of course it's all speculation in the end from my part

[median heath]

Given the remaining zones to be touched on the map, if you were to add +1 to baux, where would YOU put it?

[vapid gorge]

The top of the unfinished mountain between desert and north coast would be interesting but it would make everything too close together next to a start zone. Even more so than speedrunner cliff.

SW in the death zone would be interesting but there's probably story things coming for that

[ornate shoal]

first of all, i'm not against anything, i'm just thinking it's unlikely, because there seems to be a unique pattern to bauxite nodes, and i think it's intentional

[median heath]

Second of all- ?
Pick a biome? Plz.

[ornate shoal]

second of all, i'd add another bauxite node to red forest

[median heath]

Ew.

[ornate shoal]

because i think this pattern is cool 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

That's like adding more oil nodes to the Oil Islands...

[vapid gorge]

Another red forest node would be Very annoying for me XD

[median heath]

And I think you're seeing a pattern where you wish to see one, personally.

[ornate shoal]

would you rather have a completely homogenous resource distribution all over the map, with all resources equally available and viable from all spawns?

i know it's hyperbole and i'm sorry

[fringe pawn]

It's all generally moot, I wouldn't really take any of the mentioned Spire Coast resources as commitment. They're clearly thinking it over.

[median heath]

Putting 1 baux node in Spire Coast does not result in homogeny...

[ornate shoal]

that's true actually. it would be an exception

[median heath]

And gating it behind gas and/or rocks you need Nobs to blow makes it the same level of difficulty to achieve as any other node. Harder than several, tbh.

[fringe pawn]

The high one bordering Gold Coast is super easy as has been pointed out, basically no gate except concrete. There's another slightly into the jungle nearby from there. It wouldn't take much to match the difficulty of these.

[ornate shoal]

i don't think gad or rocks on it's own is a good enough argument. it's a tier 8 resource, you don't care about these obstacles that far into the game

[median heath]

You stop caring about literally everything in the Red Forest at T5....

Basher + Gas Mask and the world is your oyster.

[fringe pawn]

Even with the coming AI changes I think they've made it clear that combat in this game is never going to be difficult.

[median heath]

Precisely.

[ornate shoal]

so we get back to geography

[median heath]

If anything, better pathing make combat easier.

Geography where you see a pattern somewhere and I do not. 🤷‍♂️

[ornate shoal]

i guess we'll see whose right in the end

[median heath]

They may not even add a node and then it's moot.

[ornate shoal]

no then it's like i win i think

[fringe pawn]

It's gonna be the best SAM mining zone 🎲

[median heath]

Lol.

[ornate shoal]

maybe it's gonna be just one of those transfer biomes with not much interesting going on besides the views and exploration

like the purple forest

[median heath]

Transfer biome with not much going on besides the highest oil concentration on the entire map...

Yeah. "Transfer".

[fringe pawn]

There's that large mesa that I think is technically part of the dune desert. It wouldn't surprise me if there's a bunch of nodes up there and perhaps it even becomes its own biome.

[oblique hollow]

another one in the swamp

[ornate shoal]

then area with lake?

[oblique hollow]

actually, scratch that, i would add one to a cave

cave nodes are a funny meme

[median heath]

Put a cave in the Spire Coast 😉

[oblique hollow]

cave entrance: spire coast
cave location: underneath the lake craters / red jungle

[median heath]

Everyone wins.

Especially map-clippers.

[vapid gorge]

Easy solution. Drone in the cave, clip through the terrain. Solved.

[median heath]

As I was saying 😁

[oblique hollow]

make the cave low enough so no drone port fits

exception: more room above the bauxite node

so a miner fits

[vapid gorge]

You can clip buildings into walls pretty easily

AND all the drone ports are on one side. Have 90% of the port in the wall. Boom. Modern solutions

[ornate shoal]

you still have to pull power line so it's alot of work and pretty unique situation

[vapid gorge]

It's a drill drone

[median heath]

Drillne

[vapid gorge]

Or a... Drone.

[median heath]

Automated Autominer recipe 😁

[vapid gorge]

Or an... Autominer?

[median heath]

But you have the handcraft and automated methods to make those.

[vapid gorge]

Nah it's a mix of the two words Automated and Autominer. Auto and Miner 😛

[median heath]

MinerMated

[frank mesa]

The advantage of Turbofuel is the lower flow rate in the pipes for the generators. And it's also the only real advantage over diluted fuel.

[median heath]

Underclock Diluted gens to use a lower flow rate.

[frank mesa]

It's only 24 refineries and 21 blenders to make Turbofuel for, I think 89-ish generators @250% slurping 800 Turbofuel/min made from 600 oil/min.
The plumbing for Turbofuel is easily split in 2 for the whole process, avoiding any flow problems.
My diluted fuel powerplant was a lot more work to setup, compared to my Turbofuel powerplant...

[median heath]

All that time that could have been spent making nuclear progress...

Also not sure how Turbo was less work given it requires more resources brought in and configured...

HOR + Water = Fuel.
Simple.

Vs. HOR + Water = Fuel, + HOR, + Sulfur, + HOR = Coke

[frank mesa]

Using the turboblend recipe, you only need to bring sulfer in

[median heath]

Sending HOR 1 place vs. splitting it to 3 places does not sound like Turbo is simpler.

[tropic hawk]

Well it is more simple than nuclear

[median heath]

1 set of Refineries for HOR, 1 set of Blenders for Diluted

Vs.

1 set R for HOR, 1 set B for Diluted, 1 set R for Coke, drop-off for Sulfur. 1 set B for Blend

Also doesn't sound like Turbo is simpler...

[median heath]

Fair. But that isn't the comparison?

[frank mesa]

20 ref for HOR, 4 ref for Coke, 3 Blenders for diluted fuel (and 3 water extractors), then 18 blenders for Turbofuel.

[tropic hawk]

Fair enough. But I will say that I would rather set up 30 refineries and 8 blenders for TF than dozens upon dozens of blenders for DF

[frank mesa]

And only bring sulfur in

[median heath]

Starting Oil amount?

[frank mesa]

600 oil

[median heath]

Sec

[frank mesa]

That gives 800 Turbofuel (using turboblend recipe)

[tropic hawk]

I wanna say 900... It was three pipes, but it's been a while. I want to say is was the 6 eastmost nodes

[median heath]

600 Oil is 20 Ref for 800 HOR which means 16 Blenders for Diluted.

"Dozens upon dozens"?

[tropic hawk]

Look. I wasn't trying to be right, I was trying to make a point

[median heath]

900 would be 30 and 24

@frank mesa what's your building count for 600 Oil into Turbo?

[frank mesa]

24 ref, 21 blenders, 3 water Extractors, 2 MK3 miners.

For diluted you need a lot more water Extractors than 3

[median heath]

45 vs 36 if you take out extractors.

48 vs. 49.3333- if you put them in.

Still not seeing how Turbo is simpler 🤷‍♂️

[frank mesa]

Less piping towards the generators

[fringe pawn]

The argument for turbofuel is that you can have your final space elevator power infrastructure ready to go before you even have unlocked nuclear power. I think 100-200 fuel generators is as much as would make sense. Even then, doubling that (if you have nearby nodes with available capacity) is simpler than starting entirely new power infrastructure, if that's all you'd need to finish your space elevator factory.

[tropic hawk]

Never said that. However, the slight increase of production complexity pays off for the increased power production

[median heath]

You can do the entire game on Diluted 🤷‍♂️
Either one can finish the game or carry you to nuclear.

I find Diluted far simpler 🤷‍♂️

[fringe pawn]

Yeah, diluted is God-tier.

[median heath]

Aye, you did not.
But the discussion you jumped into was predicated on which is simpler.

[tropic hawk]

You can also do the entire game on biomass. Doesn't mean that there isn't other better methods

[fringe pawn]

Finishing the game on diluted is a realistic suggestion, especially if you're talking with someone who doesn't care for exploring.

[median heath]

You can get Turbo Blend with the same level of exploration as Diluted.

[frank mesa]

Diluted blend fuel is quite simple too, except for the high volume flow causing trouble.

[median heath]

It isn't tied to Compacted or any other Turbo recipe.
Both it and Diluted just require you to have Blenders.

[fringe pawn]

You can't guarantee any particular recipe will pop up in HDDs, though.

[wind spade]

and it's also big disadvantage, because fluid loss on load hits you way more

[frank mesa]

Yeah, playing on a dedicated server kind of negates that issue.

[wind spade]

I don't want to set up dedi server for SP play 😛

[frank mesa]

I'm playing with some friends, so Dedi makes sense. For SP I wouldn't bother with a Dedi either

[median heath]

Trusting other people to play this game correctly...

I could never.

People build wrong 😭

[frank mesa]

Also running less generators on the fuel than theoretically possible, which mitigates the loss on load issue with fluids.

[frank mesa]

Part of the fun (for me) is tearing their kludged stuff down and build something orderly back in way less time than building building the kludge took them 🤪

[median heath]

I would be too busy finding and beating the person IRL for building that way in the first place on my world.

[frank mesa]

LoL

My friends are building way more organized factories now than when we started.

Guess they started to see that a little more time spent planning makes building the factory a lot easier

Our next big project is building a warehouse with train tracks running through to make loading up the construction trains more efficient.
And also the mega factory to supply the warehouse.

When that's done we'll probably go nuclear, just because we can.

[untold burrow]

So I'm building my first aluminium chain. What do you recommend: 300 Sheets and an additional Casings Production OR a combined 60 Sheets/120 Casings Production? 🙂

[median heath]

You are the only one who can make that determination based on what you need to make in your world for your own production.

[fringe pawn]

Stuff like the battery recipe you're going to use matters, so it's hard for us to say. There's no such thing as too many sheets due to MK5 belts, but you use casings for many buildings too.

[vapid gorge]

What you COULD do, if you don't feel this is a super permanent factory, build enough infrastructure to use all your al ingots for casings AND sheets.

That way you can tweak it to your desires. Or like if you end up using more casings and less sheets the sheets will back up and you'll get max use of your casings

Flexible crafting for flexible futures

[median heath]

I feel like those are both longer ways of saying what I said 😂

[vapid gorge]

I mean... you basically said 'you decide on what number of each you want to build for'

I said craft a variable system that'll change based on your consumption changes.

Semi automatically change too

[median heath]

And the changes to match consumption are going to be decisions on what numbers are needed to build for 🙃

[vapid gorge]

Yes yes but generally when people ask how much of X and Y there isn't the consideration or idea of making it self variable : P

Or auto variable maybe?

[wind spade]

or you could just make ingots and keep them for when you need sheets/casings and make the exact amount you need

[vapid gorge]

Now you're just taking the fun out of it like a fun vampire greeny.

[median heath]

[wind spade]

that's one way to look at it I guess

but imo that's the best way to answer all those "in what ratio should I make X and Y" - answer is "don't make any and keep the intermediate product for when you need X or Y and you know the exact amount to produce" 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Wow. I feel like my answer is the best way because it's accurate. 😭

[worthy island]

This is a good point! Casings and sheets use the same machines and inputs (in very different quantities tho). You could just set up a few rows of assemblers and change your outputs with minimal rework. @untold burrow

This is what I went with, just because the numbers are tidy and I need sheets for batteries. Didn't think too much about it.

[vapid gorge]

It's pretty much how I made my main starter base.

Lots of basic parts overflowing to machines that would consume more than is produced but when containers filled the other manifolds worked faster.
Most of my base was shut down at any point in time until I took parts out of containers and the entire production line down stream roared back to life

[sand epoch]

Small sheets. More needed.

[steel oak]

how much ore would i use if i need 400 screws per min and 100 rods

[soft scarab]

Try https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

It depends on what recipes you’re using

But I would suggest doing the math yourself. You’ll want to be able to do that a lot

[uncut pine]

Hello Boys and Girls, im back in the Game and im asking me, is anyone a List what are good Alternate Recipes? Thx for a Answer ^^

[wind spade]

there are no "good" or "bad" alternate recipes. Everything is situational, depends what you want to produce, what resources you have available, what are your goals and preferences

[vapid gorge]

They all ave pros and cons and change depending on the location you want to build or what you're doing.

Some pure recipes? basically just trade power/space for more.
Others using different resources that might make it easier to set up factories for things in different locations.

A few of the alts are almost no brainers: downsides so negligible they're almost non issues but not many.

[vapid gorge]

Oh and any recipe that stops screws from getting used. You can kill screws entirely with enough recipes.

[wind spade]

but... copper rotor...

[vapid gorge]

steel rotors or go home 😛

screws must die

[wind spade]

steel rotors are worse than normal rotors with steel screws

[vapid gorge]

They go to the Bad Place

[wind spade]

(regarding resource consumption)

[vapid gorge]

True but it's a good saving on copper if you need it and a bunch simpler if you're trying to squeeze copper with double refineries to get the sheets

[wind spade]

saving on copper? it's 8 copper -> 10 rotors, that's like nothing

[vapid gorge]

Iron is nearly a free resource though

There's just SO much of it

[wind spade]

(yeah everything is situational, I'm just trying to say that is U3 meta, since U4 it's no longer as good)

[vapid gorge]

Fair I guess? But 'not dealing with screws' has a ton of value to me XD

[wind spade]

in U3 all screwless recipes were strictly better, which is main reason for
in U4 some screw recipes are pretty good

[vapid gorge]

oh I never used the screwless recipes for resources. I just hate screws

[wind spade]

"not dealing with screws"? you just place a constructor in front of the building that needs them, you don't belt them across the map

[vapid gorge]

Lingering hatred from early days and the belting involved. I could be biased but the repeated steps from ingot to rod to screw to make a million screws stoked a hatred that won't go away

[wind spade]

steel beam -> 😛

[vapid gorge]

I've considered some steel screws for the final plans but the trauma is still there XD

[tropic kettle]

I mean

you can make steel rotors with iron and steel

dont need copper for it at all

[vapid gorge]

That's one of the reasons I argue for it even though it consumes more resources.
I find it hard to come up with situations where I value iron over copper. At least situations that aren't more easily solved by shifting production a bit, but that's a personal taste.

[tropic kettle]

Iron wire is so nice

[vapid gorge]

God I love it so much.

[tropic kettle]

Only hard part of iron wire is when you're trying to math it all out correctly - that and when you're making automated wiring automated

[vapid gorge]

Every copper ore of mine gets run through a refinery system.
I can have crap smelters for iron.

[vapid gorge]

Iron wire -> insulated cable. HUGE output, don't even need that much oil or iron

insulated cable is like a 400% output of cable. It's crazy.

[tropic kettle]

Yeah i know

But, Im going to use the alt automated wiring recipe - and that cuts down the wire usage by like

a large margin - which saves some iron for me to use to make other things in the chain that i'm working on

[frosty owl]

I wish I ever needed to save on iron

[tropic kettle]

Well, i'm making crystal computers

so i need to make sure i'm making enough oscillators

[wind spade]

the question is, what would you value more?
8 copper or 25 iron + 13 coal? 😛

[vapid gorge]

8 copper hands down.

[wind spade]

even though copper is as rare as coal pretty much? 😛

[vapid gorge]

When I kept looking at making a lot of end tier items they always came up in excess

[wind spade]

the thing is, copper never is the bottleneck either

(unless making tons of pasta)

[vapid gorge]

True, unless you're doing a lot of pasta you're fine

But again it's a personal thing, I want to reduce logistics as much as possible and it looks like a massive way of doing that is copper conservation

[wind spade]

fyi that's the difference you "pay" when doing steel rotor over copper rotor

(per 10 rotor)

power wise they are pretty much identical

[vapid gorge]

Power is basically a never bottle neck as far as I can tell?

[wind spade]

(steel rotor using 71.2 MW over copper rotor's 70.25 MW)

if you're doing nuclear, you're fine with pretty much any power requirements. But I mentioned it for completion sake

[vapid gorge]

But yeah copper conservation has saved me a lot of vehicle logistics and kept things local. Very little muss and fuss with trains and where there is it's very straight forward

[wind spade]

building-count-wise, copper rotor uses 7.88 machines/10 rotor, while steel rotor is 7 machines/10 rotor

[vapid gorge]

That's interesting- is that taking into account the pure ingot recipes?

[wind spade]

yeah it's all recipes enabled

though it uses steel rod -> normal screw

with steel screws (a bit more iron and coal usage), it's 53.38 MW (way less than steel rotor) and 3.59 buildings/10 rotors

[vapid gorge]

That's really interesting. Steel screws really do a lot of work there

[wind spade]

changes to 8 copper vs 24 iron + 11.2 coal (per 10 rotors)

[vapid gorge]

Eventually, once I'm done with uni assignments and I can really get to work on my ur rod factory I'd like to show you around. You might appreciate the coordination of the logistics

[wind spade]

so if you don't need to save 1 iron and 1.8 coal per 10 rotors, steel screws are just great to use

[wind spade]

||that would require me to install the game||

[vapid gorge]

Screen shares also work XD

[wind spade]

I appreciate any logistics that use trains properly and don't do main bus or balancers 😛

(and before you ask, balancing nuclear is OKish, but direct 1:2/1:3 is even better 😛 )

[vapid gorge]

Honestly I was wanting to use trains for it but it's basically just a few belts and 10~ drones

1:2/1:3? Don't understand sorry

[wind spade]

uranium fuel rods are produced in nice items/min. Depending on recipe, one uranium fuel rod machine feeds 2 or 3 power plants exactly

[vapid gorge]

ooooh ok no this is just the Rod factory working at making 50.4pm. Post that I'm planning on droning them to the power station

Haven't decided where the actual power station will be. That's a future problem once this nightmare of arcs is done

Thinking about it, once I've gotten the pure copper ingots set up the rest should fall in nicely. I spent like 2 hours trying to figure out a nice configuration of pipes and belts that's aesthetic, streamlined and won't caues backflow

[frosty owl]

Reason why I always make use of those when dealing with screws <3
Sure, having to deal with steel where I could have avoided needing coal can be a hassle, but it pays off

[frosty owl]

1 to >1 is balancing

[wind spade]

[timber flare]

The copper is mostly if not only used for caterium wire. Atleast in my setup. Each refinery doues exacly one assembler of fused wire. you just have to bring in a belt or 2 of caterium ingots

I belive its 6300 Wire/m for full nuclear power

All for the fuel cell production

[wind spade]

well that depends on recipes

[median heath]

Copper is used for Caterium Wire...

That's physically impossible given the CtWire recipe is CtIngot = Wire.

Much confused.

[glad vigil]

Perhaps he was talking about alt recipe for quickwire

[hearty sparrow]

So if I have 16 foundries making steel ingots, should I only have 4 constructors turning those into steel beams? (Since 16 foundries divided by 4 is 4 and each beam takes 4 ingots)

Also, will I need to do a balancer for this? Or could I use a manifold?

[wind spade]

• which recipe are you using?
• you should calculate in items/min rather than absolute items
• you can use whatever you want, I prefer direct input or manifold

[timber flare]

Yes this

The recipie is called fused caterium wire

[wind spade]

the recipe is called fused quickwire

caterium wire is a recipe that makes wire out of caterium

[timber flare]

pog

[glad vigil]

Well, it doesn’t matter how you place splitters - eventually structures will fill up with resources and start operating at same rate anyway

Manifold is easier to set up, so majority of people use it

And speaking of constructors, I prefer making 1 steel pipes and 1 steel beams constructor for every 2 foundries

(With default recipes because I’m too lazy to search for pods)

[vapid gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/out-of-line-anthony-mackie-sam-wilson-falcon-the-falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-gif-21182970

[vapid gorge]

And copper sheets

[timber flare]

Yes

[vapid gorge]

I would have loved to have my copper refineries feed directly into 1 assembler, sadly the aesthetics of it all stops that from being possible 😦

I do that with other things though

[frosty owl]

Why?

[wind spade]

why would 1:1 be a balancer

[frosty owl]

1 to >1

1:1 is direct feed, but 1:2 or 1:3 is balanced imo

[wind spade]

for me it's also direct feed if you have row of machines and each is 1:2, instead of merging all the machines and balancing them

yes, technically it's a row of small 1:2 balancers, but the whole setup is direct fed

[frosty owl]

It could be argued that as long as the belts don't go out of the production area, the machines can be considered "directly fed"

Blurring the difference between between manifold and balancing

[fringe pawn]

IMO it doesn't feel like a balancer if you're not merging outputs and putting it into a different number of inputs. I like the direct feed distinction.

[wind spade]

I'd probably say 1:[1-4] or [1-4]:1 setups are not balancers.
or
it's a balancer only if you merge more inputs than needed (if you can direct feed 1:2, then doing 2:4 is a balancer)

[cedar jetty]

maybe simply 1:N or N:1 aren't balancers ?

[wind spade]

1:5 with feedback loop smells a bit like balancer 🤔

[cedar jetty]

fair enough, then 1:N or N:1 without feedback loops 😄

[wind spade]

also for direct feed you usually don't do more than 1:3

[frosty owl]

In that perspective, balancing and manifold would need redifining too
Also, 1:6, 1:8 and so on splits can be direct input too. I think it's reasonable to think so as long as the outputs from the machines producing the items are just merged and split to feed the consumers in that order. Adding more steps leads to load-balancing, while manifold makes use of overflow to change the splitting part

[cedar jetty]

well if you do miner => 4 smelter it's 1 to 4 but it's direct feed isn't it? (i kinda caught the discussion in the middle so maybe i'm out of the subject with that example)

[wind spade]

direct feed is most likely just between production machines

[fringe pawn]

You could maybe do direct feed from miners with recipes like copper alloy, but not much else.

[frosty owl]

Can't you direct-feed anything as long as the ratios match up?

[lofty current]

finally built my first miner mk3, realized it can pump out 1200/min fully overclocked on a pure node. is there a way to actually transport out of the miner at that rate? can you "snap" a splitter directly to the output?

[cedar jetty]

well that's the discussion, i wouldn't consider 1 miner => 4 smelter like a balancer but actually like a direct input

[frosty owl]

There are mods and save editors...

[fringe pawn]

While you're still on MK2 miners, copper alloy can do direct feed nicely if you clock foundries at 200% I suppose. Bauxite processing numbers are also high enough for direct feeds. But I think that's it?

[frosty owl]

Are you excluding merging machines to feed another or more?

[fringe pawn]

Yeah

Ultimately things are rarely that simple, though.

Especially once you start pulling 780 from miners

[wind spade]

I'd say two constructors feeding one assembler is a direct feed

[frosty owl]

I'd say X machines feeding Y machines is a direct feed, as long as the items are only merged and then split (in a series of 2/3 ways splits)

[ornate shoal]

i don't exactly know what you talking about, but i'd say 1 machine feeding n machines or n machines feeding 1 machine could be called a direct feed

[fringe pawn]

Huh. So linear clocking is coming.

[south sundial]

First time poster, long time reader.
Is the below the most simple way of getting 780 to 560?

The plan is to use 780 Pure Iron node and push it into 16 Refineries. The actual wider plan is to use 6x780 into 134 refineries (32 per floor).

Just wondering if I have been looking at this for too long and over complicating it.

[quaint ridge]

the last splitter on the right looks a bit useless

but honestly I'd just go for a manifold x)

[wind spade]

yeah, manifolds ftw.

[frosty owl]

Pffft, resorting to manifolding without noticing how easily this can be balanced for :P

[frosty owl]

Load-balancing 780 in 560 isn't a complex task. Can be done with as little as one smart splitter and one merger~

Eg: input 780/min in the smart splitter. Output on 2 sides and overflow on the third. The two outputs lead to a merger using a MK4 and MK1 belt segments. The merger outputs 560/min (480+60), the smart splitter overflows the remainig 220/min (780-560)

Keep the "max throughput bug" into account of you want exact numbers~

[frosty owl]

Well, this is a good trade... Left my "limit plan" using the Modular Frame recipe, right with it disabled (going Bolted instead). For... Reasons, bolted ends up needing a bit more limestone and producing ~3 less ADSs (which I'm asking the planner to maximize)

The machine count on the other hand...
Go #team-bolted @vapid gorge @median heath

Also @bleak coral given all the convos we had on bolted ahah

[vapid gorge]

booo bolted

[frosty owl]

Pls tell me you're saying that before actually checking out the difference in machine count

[vapid gorge]

I'm saying it with the ever burning hatred of screws

[south sundial]

Thanks for the feedback, sadly 480+60 = 540 and not 560. But I like the idea of this.

[frosty owl]

I can do math really well, always

[south sundial]

Your idea spawned above

So much cleaner

[visual grail]

The easiest way to accomplish this would be with manifolds, sometimes also called overflow. If you insist on using the load balanced method, your diagram would work but it is unnecessarily complicated. You may already know this, but 6x780 belts won't fully supply 134 refineries and 134 is not evenly divisible by 32 so won't have 32 on every floor.

[frosty owl]

Much more complex than "just one smart splitter and one merger" 😅
BTW, you can use a single smart splitter to do the job of splitter "bottom-middle" too (the first smart splitter can output 480+60 and overflow the rest)

[south sundial]

Trying to avoid manifold, only because it relies to much on overflow and I like the challenge of splitting stuff off evenly.... its stupid I know, but like the challenge

[frosty owl]

Whatever curlts down on machines without cutting as much into efficiency brings me joy

[visual grail]

This bottlenecks your miner to 750. If you did this 6x you could only support a bit less that 129 refineries

[south sundial]

So the last refineries are going to be underclocked

[vapid gorge]

is this with bolted plates as well? glare

[frosty owl]

Wrong.
Where is the bottleneck there?

[frosty owl]

Ofc~ <3
But the difference is only in disabling/enabling the Modular Frame standard recipe

[visual grail]

Oh right, I saw the splitter in middle bottom row with stuck:30 but since the 270 is actually 240, that stuck:30 is inaccurate

[vapid gorge]

You would have me SULLY my world with 45,000 screws per minute??

HERESY

[frosty owl]

It's probably an "editing leftover" from a previous version of the pic

[frosty owl]

To save on ~800achines, half of which assemblers?

[vapid gorge]

HISS

🐍

[frosty owl]

||Is that a U6 spoiler?! ||

[vapid gorge]

Replace all spiders with snakes

[frosty owl]

When they eat ore, they get bigger

[vapid gorge]

I wish.

[median heath]

Eat ore to become Eyor.

[vapid gorge]

I wonder how obscure the name Eyor is these days

[median heath]

The beloved depressed donkey?

[frosty owl]

Ey or Nay...?

[vapid gorge]

Indeed. I'm not sure winnie the pooh is getting as much traction

[haughty oasis]

Just to be safe my calculations are right...
15 uranium fuel rods = 75x 100% nuclear power plants, which results in 750 waste per min?

[wind spade]

Indeed

[versed violet]

Wondering - should I build 24 smelters to make 480 copper and 240 iron ingots, or build 10 foundries, and sink the saved ore?

[wind spade]

what do you need the ingots for? 😛

[versed violet]

steel, copper sheets, and no, there is no water nearby.

[wind spade]

I mean... the amount you want to make should depend on what you're building

not build random amount and then think what to do with it

[versed violet]

Nope, I had a plan for 480 copper ore to 480 ingots for next stage of factory, and need 240 iron for solid steel, but then realized I could have less buildings if I replaced smelters with foundries

[versed violet]

remember how I asked about the factory carts and loops?
It appears they will animate semi-correctly if you just walk away.
My factory now has Hamster Power -> #screenshots message

[river pagoda]

Yeah for steel production but not single ore production. It is nice

[tropic hawk]

Third option: used the saved ore to ingots, then sink them for more points.

[crystal charm]

is there a horizontal limit on pipe pumps?

[visual grail]

Head lift can be transmitted indefinitely in the horizontal direction

[wind spade]

you don't need pumps for horizontal

[visual grail]

True, but if you build a MK2 pump before a 15m rise and then continue horizontally for 200km from there, you'll still have 35m of head lift available.

[wind spade]

or just... build where you have the fluid

[blazing fulcrum]

y e a h

[frosty owl]

... confused by this "late" ping 😅

[median heath]

Ping.

[frosty owl]

Pong
8569 ms

[ancient crater]

So iv been looking at images on the wiki to find out the best way to make a turbofuel powerplant, it is quite clear that id need oil > heavy oil residu > diluted fuel
but then it seems to make the most turbo fuel our of a certain amount of oil, id still need to use the default turbo fuel recipy. i was expecting the turbo blend fuel to be more efficient as its a high level blender alternate recipy but it seems to use nearly double the amount of oil per turbo fuel

[wind spade]

best way is to not make turbofuel power

[median heath]

Turbo Blend is simpler and costs less sulfur.
Base Turbo costs more sulfur and gives more MW.

[frank mesa]

I'm having less trouble with flowrate issues in the pipes with Turbofuel.
The turbofuel powerplant I have in use runs on 1200 oil (turboblend recipe) and feeds 160 generators @250% clock.
This is ~14 less than max possible, because of the fluid loss on load problem. This makes the fuel supply fill the fuel lines quick enough.
The lower consumption rate of Turbofuel (9.1m³/min) compared to regular fuel (24.32m³/min) really makes a difference.

In every other aspect, Turbofuel makes no sense.

[median heath]

Given the rates you listed I'm assuming your overclocking your generators.

[wind spade]

@250% clock.

[median heath]

Me blind.

[frank mesa]

Gross power from 600 oil:
Diluted fuel: 20GW
Turboblend: 26GW
But Turboblend requires more power and more resources to make.

[wind spade]

and also is completely shadowed by nuclear

[frank mesa]

If I did my calculations right, you only gain 20% power by using Turboblend compared to Diluted Fuel.

[empty wedge]

600 oil makes 1333.33 turbofuel using compacted coal recipie. That makes around 44444 MW

I have 276 generators right now, for this

[frank mesa]

Yeah, but due to manufacturing power usage that recipe actually gives 5% less Nett power compared to Diluted Fuel.

You'd better just burn the coal and use Turboblend 😉

[empty wedge]

It does not?

[median heath]

#BiomassTillNuclear

[empty wedge]

Turbo blend fuel from a 600 crude oil gives about 800 Turbofuel that powers 177.7777 Fuel Gens, thats around 26,666.66MW. Power usage by equipment is around 2209.55MW (excluding mk2/extractors)

Ya know, I think I thought it was default Turbofuel vs turbo blend fuel

And not diluted fuel vs turbo blend fuel

[median heath]

You do know I did an entire reddit post that breaks down these comparisons, right?

[frank mesa]

Didn't know, but you got my attention

[median heath]

Did it with 1800, not 600, but here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/qw01o7/fuel_vs_turbo_fuel_complete_mw_comparison/

Cliff notes:

Diluted/DPF = 60 GW
Turbo = 133.33 GW
Turbo Blend = 80 GW

Raw ^
Net values:

DPF = 53.4 GW
Diluted = 53.8 GW
Turbo = 120.781 GW
Turbo Blend = 73.115 GW

[empty wedge]

600 node:
Diluted Fuel: 20GW
TurboFuel: 44.44GW
TurboBlendFuel: 26.66GW

[median heath]

Indeed.

Blend is still largely regarded as "better" because less sulfur and no coal. Both of which are limited resources.

But most high-end people skip Turbo entirely because normal Fuel is enough to get nuclear online.

[empty wedge]

You do still need either a diluted fuel or a blend fuel to get you through to the phases, at least a decently big project

Just a fuel recipie from 600 node isnt going to get you very far into the nuclear build

[median heath]

You can do HOR alt > Residual all the way to nuclear unless you're for some reason stopping in earlier phases to set up massive projects.

[late orchid]

Not really. I built a completely basic fuel generator setup, then rolled out nuclear

[empty wedge]

Did you just use a 600 node? or more?

[late orchid]

I used a pure node, but only pulling 300 crude from it

[frank mesa]

Nett Power per m³ of each fueltype:
Diluted blend: 11.2MW
DPF: 11.1 MW
Turbo Fuel: 29,8 MW
Turboblend: 30,5 MW

[median heath]

I'm assuming that is net values.

[frank mesa]

Nett Power

[late orchid]

I then set up a really small nuclear plant - 6 generators. Then scaled up to 36 nuclear generators using all the uranium from the impure node.

[empty wedge]

Did you chase after the milestones after setting up NPP? 10GW sounds awfully less to sustain Elevator parts

[late orchid]

I had all milestones unlocked before starting the nuclear. Just haven’t finished the final space elevator project quite yet.

[vapid gorge]

I mean if you really want you can use coal to slowly charge up like 200GW/h of power storage and use it to kickstart nuclear?

[late orchid]

This was my template for my first nuclear setup, then I scaled it up using the alt recipes https://www.satisfactorytips.com/layouts/no-nuclear-waste-nuclear-layout

I was making about 4,000 mw with fuel gens when I built that setup

[median heath]

Imagine automating Project Parts...

[empty wedge]

Im at about 5.5GW when I just finished Aluminium production, maybe my layouts suck

[median heath]

I did all of T5-6 on 3.3 GW 🤷‍♂️

[empty wedge]

Yeah, its only 7 and 8 that I need more

[vapid gorge]

Just automate all the parts before project parts and hey, all you have to do is belt those together :p

[ornate shoal]

really depends. i had about 7 fuel generators (just burning extra fuel) when i booted up my 45 nuclear reactors. you can go to nuclear with very little if you want. i had only a decent coal plant and almost all geothermal spots summing up to about 7 gw.

[river pagoda]

So with the “Steel Heaven” area if my calculations are correct I’d be able to produce 319 steel pipes/min., 120 steel beams/min., and 30 encased steel/min. What do you guys normally produce in this area? Would it be worth it to split half of the steel beam output to encased steel?

[vapid gorge]

I try to upgrade to mk4 very quickly so steel beams become less useful.

This becomes even more true when you get the Encased Beam alt that uses pipes instead of beams for huge steel savings

[river pagoda]

Ohhh. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah because idk what you’d do with 300 pipes a minute lol

[vapid gorge]

even without Encased Pipes lots of recipes, especially alt recipes, use steel pipes

And WITH Encased pipes you can almost cut steel beams out of your production entirely

This is assuming you're at a point where you're pretty much just using mk4+ belts and you just keep like 1 Steel Beam machine running for the random structure that needs them

[river pagoda]

Yeah. I’ve been trying to make everything as if it’s maxed miners and belts. Even though I only have mk1 miners and mk2 belts

[vapid gorge]

It's not a bad way of going, saves a bit of power and planning

[river pagoda]

Yeah. I’ve always had trouble with the planning so I figured might as well plan like I have maxed machines

[vapid gorge]

another good thing with the beem/pipe transition is that they just need constructors so with a bit of planning (pipes take more machines than beams I think) you can just swap recipes

[river pagoda]

So really if I get the alternate recipe I could just make another steel pipe factory and than add on the encased portion at the end

[vapid gorge]

That's certainly a thing you can do!

I've found 1 pure, or 2 normal, nodes of coal/iron with Solid Steel ingots and Pipe alt will comfortably get me through unlocking the tiers and then you can choose to do whatever

[river pagoda]

Yeah I am building in that small zone with the 3 pure iron, pure copper, 3 pure coal nodes. Was going to try and utilize each iron node with a coal node for efficiency

Idk if like 300m of conveyor too much? I think that is how far away it is

[vapid gorge]

nah not early game, that's where a lot of people put their main base.

Though you need a TON of basic iron parts so I wouldn't do them all steel

personally I like dedicating 1 iron node to each basic iron part.

Just makes it simple

[river pagoda]

Yeah I have a good production setup rn with 3 normal iron nodes in the rocky desert. Than east of that copper stuff, than further east of that my coal power plant

Rotors, reinforced plates, than I forgot what the last one was.

I think the max you can get from a normal iron node is like 20 rotors a min

[versed violet]

Call me heretic, but my 600 fuel node got converted into rubber & plastic, with measly 20 left for packaging. (I did have total of 2 fuel gens, but those went iddle after I expanded my coal plant in blue crater)
After that - NUCLEAR.
[Powered by green energy - yes, you got it right, 4 geysers. Was enough to get 2 nukes@250% online. All of geysers + some leftover fuel from rod factory burned in 12 fuel gens brought me to 32 nuke plants total]

[tropic hawk]

Nah. Your use case is your own. I would be too nervous to try that...

[versed violet]

Nervous? 😂
My definition of 'nervous' was building the first 2 nukes, small fuel rod factory, waste storage and turning them on without having access to hazmat suit.

[tropic hawk]

Oof. I always start my nukes after I finish plutonium lines

[versed violet]

Ah, right, that thing I'm building 500+ hours later after I gathered 4M waste. I'm almost done 🤞

Not that I would recommend doin it this way, but it can be done if you're lazy and slow playing.

That gives me an idea...
"Only ONE" mod. You can build only single instance of every item total.
One constructor, one assembler and so on.
One of each mk1-5 belts and one pipe 🤣

[tropic hawk]

That would be pain.

On the other hand, LGIO wants to speak with you.

[versed violet]

Send him to modding discord 😄

[burnt wraith]

I think LGIO is more about inflicting pain on the game instead of the player

also I don't think you can make anything with 1 pipe

[versed violet]

Taking it from meta side - is ONE of every building enough to make everything?

[tropic hawk]

Extractor to refinery

[burnt wraith]

and what do you make at the one refinery?

[tropic hawk]

Something from oil I hope

[versed violet]

plastic? rubber?

definitely plastic, so you can unlock the second pipe

[burnt wraith]

I don't think there's a recipe for oil to plastic in one refinery

[tropic hawk]

Default recipe

[versed violet]

the very recipe of which existence we all managed to forgot by now

[burnt wraith]

it fills up with heavy oil residue though

[tropic hawk]

Didn't say you could automate it, just that it was possible

[burnt wraith]

ahh true

you can just delete and rebuild the one pipe

[versed violet]

build a buffer, destroy the One Pipe ™️, reconnect to buffer, flush, repeat

It all gets easier when you unlock the Two-Pipe

[burnt wraith]

yeah I think you can do everything with one pipe and one belt

however

if it's only 1 cable there might be a problem

[versed violet]

ouch, indeed

although, you can only have 1 coal gen anyways, so what are you going to connect to it?

Fix-mass would be easy mode, with a bonus cable

[burnt wraith]

I mean the coal gen would have to power its miner and its extractor

[versed violet]

miner can be worked around with handmining and a storage box, but otherwise, yes

probably should only apply to buildings and belts and pipes.

[river pagoda]

Yep which I think I read somewhere that for coal miners to have them automated will consume 10% of total power produced

[glad vigil]

Just add second refinery and set it to produce coke, then burn it in coal generator(s) and/or throw it into awesome sink

wait I’m dumb and didn’t read the conversation nvm

[burnt wraith]

yeah we were just doing a random made up scenario

[river pagoda]

Oh lol

I was wondering

[teal relic]

@vagrant thunder @agile nacelle this is what I am looking at

[agile nacelle]

might we has key?

[vagrant thunder]

ok cute, yeah, i pretty much figured that out on my own but not nearly as neatly heh. RThe additional pumps are making up for when the water starts to run out from the first one and keeps everything backfilled

[teal relic]

key?

[agile nacelle]

oh, are the shapes all pumps?

[vagrant thunder]

tghey are llabeled on my screen

[agile nacelle]

i mean the shapes without a label...

on the left you have what looks like stars and on the right similar but inflated(?)

are they splitters and pumps?

[hazy saffron]

Left is the t pipe thing

[teal relic]

are these good for spacing?

[hazy saffron]

This thing

Right symbol is obv just splitters

[agile nacelle]

ok cool, just wanted to make sure my info was correct

cause i haven't messed with water and pipes yet XD

nor have i looked up such .. plans online o.o

[teal relic]

how can the coal mine have 2 outputs?

[vapid gorge]

just spam power storage so that a few geysers charge up a ton of power and boom. While I was building I had a few geysers do 15,000 mw/h in storage to kick start turbofuel

[vapid gorge]

this has a lot of needless junctions

[teal relic]

okay, thanks

[vapid gorge]

Part of the pipe manual?

if it is I think it's got a lot more parts shown to make you think how water is flowing rather than how it needs to be set up.

[vapid gorge]

So getting rid of the left extra junctions will help stop flow issues - basically have as few junctions as you actually need is a solid way to design pipes.
The right shows 'load balancing' which you can do but doesn't really have technical benefit and is mostly just complicated
The coal miner doesn't have 2 outputs in this case and just splits it in two at the start.
You CAN just have 1 long line from the miner that has a spliter in front of each generator

[worthy island]

I'm planning my end game HMF factory. I've never noticed it before but what's up with the very specific PPM for Heavy Encases Frames - 2.8125 per minute? Does this ratio fit nicely with other recipes? Not a big deal, of course, it just seems like an intentional number.

[vapid gorge]

Not that I've seen. Might have just been done partially as balance and partially as problem solving challenge for people who wanted neat numbers running smoothly. Good use of clocking fixes though fairly simply

[worthy island]

Thanks! I'll likely just round-up and over produce so it's not a problem. The Sink accepts all - integers and fractions alike.

[vapid gorge]

Well if you're doing an end game factory and doing HMF from start to finish you can clock everything so there's NO wastage w/o too much effort. Just depends if that's important or cool to you

[worthy island]

I'll import everything except for concrete. Even then, it's like 200 machines which is the top end of what I can be bothered with in a single building. I love it when a build has nice round numbers but excess HMFs will always be useful so odd fractions are ok

[crystal charm]

what signals do i need to place on those ? areas, the squares are stations and the line is well, a train line

FYI, this is a very simplistic representation of what exists

[vapid gorge]

so are those stations on the main track so trains HAVE to stop or are they off to the side?

[crystal charm]

it will need to stop at one of them

we have a huge two way rail line that spreads around the map

and i'm just trying to hook in a tiny piece

most of our hook ins use a T junction, this one i tried to do different and it's not happy

[vapid gorge]

I mean, do trains have the option to skip them as the stations are attached to off ramps

[crystal charm]

yes, most of our stations get skipped by most trains

there's like 20 stations on the primary loop, and about 6 trains, each with a unique timetable

[crystal charm]

this drawing is an even more simplistic view of what i'm trying to do

most of our junctions are like this

[vapid gorge]

ok so it IS a two way track

do you have more than 1 train ever stopping at any of hte stations in the pic?

[crystal charm]

frequently, but block signals stop them from crashing

[vapid gorge]

ok so it's still fairly straight forward - You'll just need to have paths blocked out at the station and along the path a bit longer than the longest train.
Also if you have multiple trains stopping at a particular station you'll want an extra length of rail before the station off to the side as a waiting area blocked out

[crystal charm]

ok so, pink station is an already off the side station, to which i tried to add an extra loop, which goes to 2 other stations, and loops back around, and the last pic is where i tried to join it

[vapid gorge]

This intersection is going to slow down your whole system though depending on yoru traffic

[crystal charm]

oh we have like 4 intersections like that spread around

most things move pretty smoothly

[vapid gorge]

so in this picture it looks like the shortest path is THROUGH the station which means trains will back up behind it and won't go to the right? Hard to tell from this angle though

[crystal charm]

so the normal running of that station is it loops right back around to the rail you see on the right

i've tried to add a turn off after the station to where i want to go

[vapid gorge]

Hard to tell w/o more zoomed out but if you've tested and it's ok should be good? Just the simple pathing I suggested then

[crystal charm]

well i solved it, but not like i wanted to

i built this monstrosity instead

[vapid gorge]

You only need to build intersections as needed though remember. If you don't need trains being able to turn every which way your system will be sleaker.
What you're doing now is better if you just want something flexible you can slap any train going anywhere on

[crystal charm]

well, i'm pretty sure the train guy on my server started doing this for future proofing

i.e adding more stations in other areas

what i've built this one for it purely to go to a uranium fuel rod pick up site, and a nuclear waste drop off site, i needed it on the main loop to deliver the fuel and pick up the waste cause that station is on the network and near the reactors

but in the future, we might build something further north, and now we can easily add more stations/timetables in

he likes trains

[vapid gorge]

Yeah like most things in the game it's a trade off. Future proofing for flexible rail mains more complicated and bulkier looking but less time planning ahead.

Also you might want to consider doing on and off ramp intersection so that trains turning don't cross over other rail lines if you're going to use a lot of trains. Really slows intersections up the way you're doing it, but mostly matters on how much traffic youre expecting

[crystal charm]

that's our primary connected network at the moment, there's about 6 other bi-directional lines not hooked into that network as well

[sullen mulch]

hey guys is it worth the extra effort using the pure iron recipe

[crystal charm]

if you're going to make a mega factory, then yes

[sullen mulch]

yeah what i want to do it take a whole load of iron nodes and make an iron prep factory so that I can just use trains to take iron from it when i need it

[crystal charm]

that's pretty much what i did with caterium, used one pure node, capped it out, made pure caterium and it generates more than we currently need

i have a copper bar factory that i'm going to convert to pure copper

[sullen mulch]

sweet, well knowing that it's handy I reckon i will go make a few sattelite factories making raw materials

[crystal charm]

but that's like, project 5 on my list

[sullen mulch]

yeah lucky for me i can just go straight for pure

[crystal charm]

well you see my train map up there, mostly satellite factories

[vapid gorge]

Depends on if you care about doing a lot of logistics. Its easier building up than making thousands of ingots and shipping them.

If you do it in the Dune desert though you can stick to smelters and STILL have like 20,000 ingots per min

[crystal charm]

with a big ass central hub for making a bunch of complicated shit

[sullen mulch]

yeah right now i am building a city factory in the plains so i train everything in but never thought of just making raw material factories to take small amoutns from at a time

[sullen mulch]

yeah I actually plan on using the dune desers later so i think i am going to use the top left of the map to steal from for now

[vapid gorge]

it's a lot more work and planning that way but doable.

[sullen mulch]

yeah i am starting to get sick of working in these 3 buildings so I wanted to finally go and work on some small separated projects to keep things fresh

[vapid gorge]

I mean those are really nice. You'll want to leave a LOT of space for a modular train station to go in and out and to be able to build extra stops

[sullen mulch]

first of all thanks. I can't help but laugh at leaving space for train stations. That is the bane of my existence in this factory as i usually plan to have 1 trainstation and then realise i need a few more to help out

[crystal charm]

i need a player who is good with pretty design and architecture to join our server, fix up the outside of some of our buildings

you can always make a long train, longest i have so far is 10 cars

well, including engines it's 10

[sullen mulch]

yeah i think the longest train including engines i have is 7

but it doesn't actually do all that much come to think of it

[crystal charm]

my 10 car one brings in nothing but water for my nuclear plants

[sullen mulch]

haha i can imagine that is pretty paindul

[crystal charm]

well, i haven't been able to stress test it yet

we're waiting for the waste disposal building to be finished before we flip the switch and turn it on

[sullen mulch]

yeah just reading that sentence hurts my future project

I really want to max out nuclear but every time i see someone else talk about nuclear i realise just how much work that is

[crystal charm]

we've turned off several satellite factories to keep our power consumption low, but as you can see, if everything was on and running we'd be out of power

so, i can't wait to turn on my 32 reactors

[sullen mulch]

haha, somehow power has been the least of my issues in this save

[crystal charm]

i built the fuel manufacturing, sourced the various uranium and stuff, made a satellite node to manufacture parts, 2 nodes actually, there's an 8 car train that ships them in

i've built the plants, built the water train, almost finished hooking up all of the water and conveyors to the reactors, but i have 16 ready now, and i'm waiting for waste disposal to be finished before i get to flick a single power switch that will start the whole process

[sullen mulch]

wow

dude i cant wait but i also wish i could just play tier 3 and 4 for the rest of my life

is there any way you can set up a recycling plant before bringing nuclear online or is that not possible

[crystal charm]

yes, that's what i'm waiting on, the guy building that isn't finished yet

[sullen mulch]

right ok thats good then, obviously you can just stack watse in thousands of containers but the clean up takes years

[crystal charm]

yeah when i first hit nuclear in solo play, i didn't even know you could dispose of it

so i literally had like 50 containers of storage in a corner

and was wondering how this would continue, then someone told me about processing it into plutonium

[sullen mulch]

haha yeah, I have never made it to nuclear myself as I started a new save for U5 before finishing my last one but I have heard all about nuclear and what i might need to do

[crystal charm]

this little switch right here, it will send power to 2 train stations, which are connected to 2 uranium nodes which have boosted mk3 miners on them, once i flip this on, uranium starts coming in, and the ball starts rolling

it will probably take a day or so for the loads to all balance out and spread power evenly

[sullen mulch]

i really hate myself for saying this but I plan on load balancing my nuclear setup

[crystal charm]

what do you mean?

[sullen mulch]

well I want to have all of the resources flowing perfectly when i make my nuclear build so instead of using a manifold system I want to load balance to have everything feeding perfectly

[crystal charm]

and this is why i need a design and architect person to make things pretty

[sullen mulch]

haha well let me grab a screenshot, everyone has a few hidden skeletons

[crystal charm]

this is where the raw uranium comes in

[sullen mulch]

clipping looks so good like that

[crystal charm]

these two stations bring in all the other materials required, including sulfuric acid

[sullen mulch]

I love the colour coded stations

[crystal charm]

and this is where the rods are produced

i tried my hand at making a funky roof, but didn't finish it

[sullen mulch]

funny enough I usually finish my design before the factory because my brain stops working figuring out the maths haha

right well i am going to go set up a project train and get a move on to the other side of the map

[crystal charm]

uranium fuel goes in here

waste comes out to here, as you can see, not finished with belts etc

[sullen mulch]

yep nuclear scares me

[worthy island]

Do it. Come on, flip the switch. It will be fun.

[crystal charm]

we have the alt recipe for plutonium rods, so he's using that, even though it's less power efficient

[crystal charm]

oh man, i have nearly done it like five times already

it's like a shiny red button to me

https://tenor.com/view/button-shiny-red-button-ren-and-stimpy-push-gif-12877515

[vapid gorge]

YEAH look, what you're doing is going to require a lot of train stations XD the down side of not building up as complex at the location of ingots. I hate having tons of trains so I avoid it as much as possible

[vapid gorge]

It's less about 'length' of train and more number of trains since ingots will be going to many destinations

[crystal charm]

well, that's what spacers are for

[sullen mulch]

haha lucky for me i absolutely love trains. Especially in my case it makes my factory look so much more alive unlike the ghost town it would be

[crystal charm]

one big train collects, goes around the map, and maybe there's a station with like 4 spacers and a freight platform

or yes, you could build like 4 stations are the source, Iron 1, 2 etc

but come on, big train

[vapid gorge]

as in empty plat forms but multiple trains using the same station?
Trouble with doing that is you drasticaly reduce throuput since each train has to wait for the next to move out of the way

AND if you hav ea lot of empty platforms every station that's getting fed has to b every long to compensate

[crystal charm]

small example

i have a larger example somewhere

but that's always why our big ass track has a left and right

and many major stops have a bypass

so if there's a train waiting at that station and other trains need to go pass, they can scoot around

they pretty much follow road rules (australia here so they drive on the left)

@sullen mulch big ass pure copper factory my mate uses

and bypass line for other trains going nearby

[sullen mulch]

thats exactly where I was thinking of building haha

[river pagoda]

So basically factorio trains

[sullen mulch]

definitely good to see just how big the factory will need to be

[crystal charm]

there's also i think a pure caterium in there too, he was kind of testing how many AI limiters and magnetic rods he could make in one place

turns out the answer is fuckloads

[sullen mulch]

hahaha

[crystal charm]

i haven't actually advanced far enough in that game to unlock trains

@sullen mulch the space for pure caterium from on pure node

[river pagoda]

I got some mega bases. Lots and lots of trains.

One intersection has like 30 train stations for one section

[worthy island]

I do this for copper and steel. Haven't found it worthwhile for iron yet.

That might change - I'm still early stages in my end game plan

[sullen mulch]

yeah this is going to be more work that I thought

and yeah i might as well just go pure as I have the water so close by

[crystal charm]

that factory off in the distance with the coloured lights, it's where all those impure iron nodes are, about half are using pure iron recipe the other half just normal smelters, it pretty much just makes iron frames

you should see those lights in action through the various glass walls and stuff, so pretty

after we turn on the first chunk of nuclear i need to figure out a better HMF factory

[crystal charm]

is factorio multiplayer?

[hazy saffron]

yes

[oblique hollow]

a great moment to mention Spiffing Brit and his army of 500 unpaid interns destroying a death world with their bare hands

[sullen mulch]

this is about to change my life

[crystal charm]

the time has come to push the button

[frosty owl]

They need to make it so new rules added to Prog. Splitters are set to "None". ASAP

[proven prawn]

won't help with smart splitters still being bugged and default "any" still doesn't allow resources to pass

[frosty owl]

That's fine to me, though I'd prefer them to show "none" instead. I'd want Poggers to do the same when adding a new rule

Instead, you add a new rule and need to stop the input as the sorting is ruined already (until you change the rule frol "any")

[median heath]

When they rework poggers it's going to break so many people's setups 😂

[crystal charm]

point of note peoples, trains are bad for bringing in water to nuclear power

as you do not end up with a regular flow of 600m3 in the pipes, the flow pauses while the train unloads

[wind spade]

bringing water or any fluid is bad

also yeah for trains you need buffers for loading/unloading and expect less than full throughput

[crystal charm]

the sulfuric acid one is ok, mainly cause it only needs a flow of like 350

if you transported packaged water instead i wonder if that would work

[wind spade]

same issue, just 780 belts 😛

[median heath]

You can make it regular with packaged fluids.
Because the flow from the unpackager doesn't stop.

Just let it do a dropoff that isn't consumed and turn the system on during the second dropoff so you always have that buffered amount to keep flowing.

[pure stone]

Is it more efficient to do the overflow system or a load balancer for mega bases

Like efficient wise for space

[wind spade]

that depends on what you're balancing. Space-wise, most of the time manifolds are smaller, but there are cases where balancers are smaller. However space is pretty much infinite, so that shouldn't be a big problem

[pure stone]

Ok, thanks!

[oblique hollow]

small tid bit fact for conveyor belt speed, in case anyone is interested:

the speed is nearly equivalent to:
30 x (Belt Mk)^2

only exception is mk 5 and mk 1

[wind spade]

well in reality it only can reliably do around 750 for longer belts anyway so it checks out

[vapid gorge]

Belt welding! 😄

[wind spade]

who has time to do that 😛

[vapid gorge]

.>

<.<

[empty glade]

Not really. The path signals will cover an entire area/intersection. You don't need to divide every little piece as in Factorio.

[wind spade]

you still do if you want to get every last point of efficiency of the junction

[empty glade]

In what way? Two trains will still pass through the same intersection at the same time with path signals around the edges only, unlike Factorio. Is it the slowdown thing before the intersection?

[wind spade]

trains block their entire path in the block when they enter a path signal. Trains free that blocked path when they exit a block

[empty glade]

In Factorio, yes. In Satisfactory, only the path.

[wind spade]

in satisfactory, also yes

[frank mesa]

I don't do level intersections.
It's all split level in my games.

[empty glade]

I've tested it. No.

[wind spade]

several people tested it. Yes

[frank mesa]

When in doubt I side with greeny

[empty glade]

So you haven't?

[wind spade]

no, but I've talked with people that tested it 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

1 test of "no" vs multiple of "yes"

[wind spade]

damn... where's my memory when I need it... who has written the train logic guide again? can't find it in pins here, is it pinned somewhere?

[oblique hollow]

Sevrahn

[frank mesa]

I've run some tests with path signals, which made me decide to go with split level intersections and block signals only.

[oblique hollow]

yea there is one issue path signals have rn, they cant detect verticality

[wind spade]

basically this

[frank mesa]

That too made me decide to go split level.

[wind spade]

(assuming the top right train goes to bottom exit)

but if you place this blue marked signal here (path signal), then the train can go immediately

@median heath your wisdom is needed

[empty glade]

Yeah, but these paths cross

[wind spade]

yeah, but adding the signal in the "factorio style" increases throughput potential of the junction

[empty glade]

If they don't cross, both go

[wind spade]

hence why I said "you still want to place them down if you want more throughput"

[frank mesa]

That works only on a half intersection, you'd have to segment the intersection in several blocks more with a full 3 way intersection. For throughput reasons.

[wind spade]

I'm not saying it won't work without it, I'm saying that if you want more throughput, you still want to place the path signals in the same way as you would in factorio

[frank mesa]

Absolutely

[wind spade]

(which also makes it convenient since you don't have to figure out junctions, you can just reuse those from factorio)

though if you're fighting for every bit of throughput, doing non-crossing junctions is just better

[frank mesa]

Split level is best for throughput.

[wind spade]

(also the classic "split before merge")

[frank mesa]

And the path signals are definitely not on par with path signalling in OTTD

[wind spade]

yeah OTTD releases every tile when the train leaves it

Satisfactory only releases full blocks

or rather, the path they blocked in given block

[frank mesa]

Which is fine for a game where trains are not the main focus.

Guess they could implement the OTTD signalling and pathfinding, it is open source.

[wind spade]

I doubt it would be reusable. It's 2D

[median heath]

@wind spade am late. What's the summary of the question?

[wind spade]

is factorio-like signalling of junctions beneficial to throughput

(factorio-like = separating every crossing into it's own block)

[median heath]

1. Fuck Factorio
2. Depends on if you're using Paths or Blocks.

[wind spade]

paths

[empty glade]

I also wonder: does SF consider it a different section of path if you've placed the track in 2 sections instead of 1, or does it go signal to signal? Do you know if anyone has tested this?

[median heath]

If Paths, then yes.

[wind spade]

basically this #math-and-meta message

and this #math-and-meta message

[wind spade]

here Sev would probably be my first bet

[median heath]

Which train is going faster if you add the signal?

[wind spade]

(about who has tested that)

[wind spade]

it's just to illustrate a point where the top right train could enter the junction earlier if you added a path signal

[median heath]

Hmmm

[wind spade]

I'm assuming left train entered first, right train second

[median heath]

Ah. Yeah.

[frank mesa]

Signal to signal is considered one block, can have multiple segments, makes no difference.

[median heath]

And for rails, from what I read on the debug screen Paths do identify individual rail segments, but they don't treat them differently if there isn't a signal.
Moreso just they have to be able to see individual pieces for how junctions work. But it doesn't affect long stretches of rail in any way unless you're adding more signals.

Chaining Paths on long rails >>>> using multiple Blocks.

[wind spade]

there was also a question/discussion about vertical detection (can trains collide with properly signalled track if the tracks don't cross, but the train hitboxes collide)

[median heath]

If an overhead rail is within 4-6m the system fucks out about it.
8 is 50/50 in my experience.

[wind spade]

how high is train's hitbox? 🤔

[median heath]

🤷‍♂️

Gonna lose signal.

[empty glade]

I suppose it may depend on whether there's a curve before crossing

[frank mesa]

My split level crossings are all 12m or more vertically separated

[median heath]

Trains don't really care about curves tbh.
See for reference: every time they do a hairpin on a dime because "faster route"

[frank mesa]

Even going through a station siding to reverse direction and ending up waiting on the train loading there, because "faster route"

Which made me build bypass tracks shorter than going through the station.

Just reminded me of making a bypass track on the new station I'm building

[river pagoda]

So in order to bypass the track needs to be shorter?

Or will it do it automatically regardless?

[oblique hollow]

if you want a train to bypass a station that is not its target, normal sidings now work too

[wind spade]

but the sidings need to be shorter than the path through the station iirc

[oblique hollow]

as long as its not over 100 m long (or a multiple of 100? not sure on that yet)

[oblique hollow]

not anymore

[wind spade]

huh?

[oblique hollow]

gustav (or whoever does trains) wrote that on a QA post

[wind spade]

oh I don't read QA lol

[oblique hollow]

trains now take a 100 m detour into account if a station on their way is NOT their target

[wind spade]

I see

[oblique hollow]

im not yet sure how the 100 m stacks and what platforms trigger it

but its supposedly "100 m per station each"

so here, up to 200 m detour should work

[versed violet]

Anyone have a schematic for limiting belt throughput to 132/min?
120 from mk2 and 12 from (?)

[still trout]

a single line from a mk1 to 5 splitter

[versed violet]

what about the remaining 4/5ths? loop them into input??

[visual grail]

Feed a Mk3 or higher belt into a smart splitter. Have one side of the splitter go off to feed a manifold of machines consuming 132/min. Configure one of the other outputs to overflow.

[wind spade]

what's the usecase?

[versed violet]

Can't machines limit, this feeds mixed freight station.

[wind spade]

mixed station 🤢

[versed violet]

Transport 132 ingots through train, when the platform also ships other goods. fed by container.

[wind spade]

I wouldn't trust the game to be this accurate, not to mention all the extra work for setting up exact ratios over just adding another freight car

[visual grail]

I don't believe in mixing belts/stations/containers. Not worth the headache, IMO.

[versed violet]

I have no space for extra car. Squeezed as much as I can fit

[wind spade]

the map is almost infinite 🤔

[versed violet]

excess above 132 will get sunk, but I don't want to just sink mk3 belt of cat ingots and call it a day

[versed violet]

I'm limited by rail going down one side, and wall on the other

[visual grail]

Belt the cat ingots to somewhere that has more space?

[ivory peak]

coal gens early game 1 pure node of coal with mk.2 lines mk.2 mines @200% (480) goes into 32 coal gens =2400MW fairly stable ( as stable as you make the water feed ( i do a two pipe loop to provide the 400 out of mk 1 pipes )

32 coal gens ran off similar maths base on 2 normal nodes at 200% still give you your 480 feed

currently i am running 160 coal gens on my playthrough and 60 gas gens on turbo fuel, just got into the last tier shtuffs 🙂

to the Satisfactory Devs .. 🙂 thank you! keep up the good work!

[visual grail]

Glad to hear you're having fun! I'd recommend moving more power generation to fuel based to save your coal for steel/alumina production. Also, nuclear/batteries are better uses for sulfur than turbo fuel. Just my thoughts, ultimately, your game, your rules. Build how and what you want.

[ivory peak]

just got into that tier 🙂 one of these coal stations will be deconstructed to accomidate for that 🙂

ive been scouting out the sulfur for just such purpose as of recent 😂 ❤️

but for the early game grid 96 gens gave me 7200 MW of stable power to play with and was huge getting outa biomass 🙂

the sister plant be running 64 to put my base coal grid to 12k MW .. lol then i fire up the 100 refines i have making purple fluid to go into Turbo fuel 🙂 44 of those making 880 plastic a min
20 make poly resin+res fluid, 20 make rubber + res fluid giving me 400 rubber/ min too

16 clock to 15 produce my turbo fuel base on the yeild of sulfur i have tapped into

[visual grail]

Oh yeah, geting away away from BMG is probably the single most game-changing milestone

I think I started with 16 coal gens, then added 20 fuel gens, then added 18 geothermal, then built 1000 fuel gens. Now I'm working on 252 Nuclear plants but its gonna take a while

[ivory peak]

OMGUUURD

lol i would luv to see picture of that 🙂

[visual grail]

still a WIP but here's a shot of what i have so far... actually cant capture whole thing. the bottom is 630 water extractors. The middle is 252 Nuclear Reactors. The top will be all of the radioactive stuff. I'll build another structure nearby to produce and feed in the rest of the components needed.

[ivory peak]

OOOOH MY BOB

O<O brooo

those puppies 2500/ right

[visual grail]

correct. total will be 630,000 MW

[ivory peak]

so i bee worried about a build tile count limit 0>0 but like when i see shtuff like this i pressume i have not even touched a fraction of it ?

HOOOOLY

[visual grail]

the object limit is over 2 million... takes quite a bit to get there

[ivory peak]

and is there a mod to take that up a notch or to make it N/A ?

[visual grail]

you can modify the ini file i think it is, but it can cause stability issues

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Tutorial:Unreal_Engine_Entity_Limit#:~:text=The default limit set in,in the Game's config folder. If you want to learn more

[ivory peak]

ty svm for the information 🙂 this was the first play threw i got into turbo fuel so i have big hurrdles to jump yet, but i add to my factory daily!

keep up the good work man that nuc plant is amazing 🙂 i cant wait to be up in that tier

[visual grail]

thank you, you too!

[frank mesa]

Mixing items on a single platform is asking for trouble

[frosty owl]

I'm not sure I understand your issue...
You're making >132 ingots/min and want to send only a 132/min exactly to a station because you don't wanna sink too much... ?
Rather than the load-balancing, I would suggest either

1. Send the whole belt to the station, sink/consume excess after it have been unloaded and used from that station.
2. Send a more convenient number (>132/min) to the freight and sink/deal with excess, still less excess than the full belt. Eg: send only 150 or 180/min as they're much easier to balance for.

[frank mesa]

I have trains that pick up one item in car 1, and another item in car 2

[frosty owl]

Mixing items brings higher complexity. That's about it, the rest is on the user :P

[frank mesa]

There's also no wrong way to play the game

[frosty owl]

The beauty of sandoxes with no cat poo

[frank mesa]

In a case with very low volume items it would definitely work

high volume items however....

[frosty owl]

Well, yeah, throughput limits are a thing 😆

Especially more so if we were to compare SF to other factory games. I hear SF has relatively "low" throughputs

[versed violet]

Sorry for late reply, RL has pulled a broken fuse sound on me.

The current setup is:
Box for caterium ingot shipped from mine.
It splits into several factory lines, leaving around 204.25 ingots left for other purposes.
The ingots go into mixed freight station to be shipped to [Top Secret] location that needs 132/min.
The final location has an overflow sink, but I'd rather not sink ~70 ingots from my limited supply, so I need to limit the input rate to freight to 132.

[frank mesa]

To avoid any trouble the mixed train unloads at two stations

[frosty owl]

Pretty much what I was thinking avout. I stand by my earlier opinion ^^
(That being I think it'd be simpler to move all the belt and mix the overflow with factory output to be dealt with/sunk later or send a more convenient portion of the input rather than a full-blown load-balancing)

[median heath]

Why not have it reload excess back onto the train?

[frosty owl]

I think Tom wants to keep freights at a minimum

[median heath]

Also people who hate on mixed belts/trains just don't understand what can be done with smart splitters. 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

Space limitations or whatnot

[median heath]

Have excess shipped elsewhere via drone. Minimum space requirements given you can just put it on the roof

[versed violet]

Excuse me for not wanting to deal with 2 different trains going into 2 different stations and trying to shove the excess into correct one then picking it out

[frank mesa]

I have a sushi-belt feeding my warehouse 🍣

[snow dove]

Smart splitters aren’t too crazy to build.

[frosty owl]

||Programmable splitters be like: Am I a joke to you?! ||

[median heath]

Who said anything about a second station?

Put it back on the same train...

[versed violet]

||They have the very important job of filtering out remaining items to sink||

[frank mesa]

I also use a programmable splitter to split the goods into two halves 😄

[median heath]

Yes, because getting reworked 😂

[frosty owl]

Nowdays, only crazy people feed their warehouse with single-item belts

... I think...? 😅

[snow dove]

What do programmable splitters even do?

(I haven’t unlocked them)

[versed violet]

The only wagon going back is the one that ships goods to 2 different stations (don't ask why)

[median heath]

I'm genuinely going to place myself on the floor in preparation for the laughter when that happens because so many people's stuff will break.

[frosty owl]

Basic level: better sorting as you can choose LIST of items for each output

On a more advanced level: sushi load-balancing

[versed violet]

they allow to select multiple items per output

[median heath]

1. This sounds like a horrendous lack of planning.
2. Drone is your best recourse as it requires minimal additional infrastructure.

[snow dove]

So basically, more advanced smart splitter.

[frank mesa]

They are a bit buggy (especially on dedi multiplayer) but after some tinkering I got it to work by only programming the items for 1 port, and all other items overflow to the other

[frosty owl]

What more did you expect? 😆

[median heath]

For now.

[snow dove]

Alright, i’ll unlock that so i can fix the big issue with this design.

[versed violet]

That sounds like overkill for limiting waste. I mean, I only need to reduce the throughput close to 132, not another delivery line into remote location.

[snow dove]

Are they changing it?

[median heath]

Highly probable given Mark has ideas for what he wants it to be.

[median heath]

Never heard a Drone described as overkill...
Split a mk3 in half and you'll have 135. 🤷‍♂️

Simplest way to get close to 132.

[frank mesa]

I don't even bother sending an exact amount over a belt. Given time it will eventually back-up

[frosty owl]

Would merging the overflow with the factory output be cumbersome? Why?

[frosty owl]

Imo, I doubt they'll change them in a WA that would break things. They'll probably just add functions or make the current ones better

[median heath]

Is splitting a mk3 at the pickup site so the train gets only 135 not the simplest path?

The other solution is stop doing things in weird numbers like 132...

[frosty owl]

Greatly depends on other logistics, but assuming the output of the factory receiving the train/ingots will be eventually sorted/sunk... No, I think dealing with it after overflow has run its course would be simpler

Eg: merging the overflow ingots with factory output to be dealt with later requires less beltwork than any load-balancing

[median heath]

He has limited space at dropoff and doesn't want to over-sink things.
Doing 135 means he's sinking only 3.

[frosty owl]

What about the remaining ingots?

[median heath]

But I also stand by my earlier statement that this whole things sounds poorly planned 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Issue for pickup site to deal with. 🤷‍♂️

Getting only 2 data points on how the whole logistics system works leaves limited options.

[frosty owl]

So sunk until figured out. Which is the same as if the ingots were merged with factory output, only difference being you have all ingots still in one belt and the place they're at

Of throughput allows for it, this wouldn't even add space at drop-off site

I mean, the whole point of sinking is to keep your stuff running. Imo, it's easier to sink everything without paying much mind to "wastes", if you don't currently have a factory ready to actually consume the items you're trying to "save"

[frosty owl]

I just realized this didn't get answered. Yes, merge 4/5 back with the MK3 (NOT with the MK1)

[versed violet]

Yes. there is no output 🤣

[frosty owl]

All factories have an output aside from Coal and Fuel power plants

... Don't they?

[wind spade]

those have power output 🤷‍♂️

[versed violet]

Does this look ok?
Its mk1 feeidng prime 5 splitter, 1/5th goes to output + mk2 belt for 132 total, the 4/5ths go back to mk3 feeding belt

[versed violet]

Well, its an [Top Secret] facility for utilizing uranium waste.
Nothing comes out, sorta.
[there is some siphoned nitro bottles, but those already go to two different stations, so not touching it]

[frosty owl]

We're talking belts :P

[frosty owl]

Yeah, should work. I've thought about possible merging issues too, but it seems fine

[versed violet]

yes, figuring out where to merge the 4/5ths back was the hard part

[frosty owl]

With the MK3 is fine as there's no chance of it backing up. That's all that matters

[versed violet]

Time to actually connect the input belts to the tune of I'm an engineer!

[frosty owl]

Hoping you haven't seen it already, this might shed some more light onto merging mechanics to be weary of when balancing
https://youtu.be/v4j8pw7L5b8

[versed violet]

ok, I have no idea what I'm looking at. Is there subtitles or something?

[frosty owl]

There's my fabulous description in the video's... Description box 😅

[frosty owl]

Just showing how merging a full belt can cause it to stutter, ruining the balancing. Increasing the belt MK fixes that, despite the throughput being the same (still limited to 60/min by the first belt segment)

[versed violet]

didn't it send one item to the up because other output belts were filled?

[frosty owl]

Items should NOT be sent up. The contraption after the smart splitter limits throughput to 150/min exactly, so if items overflow it means the previous balancer (with the MK1 belt mentioned) is sending more items than it should

[versed violet]

wait, you're limiting it after the overflow merger, not before?

[frank mesa]

This fine example, Mk5 input, splitting to Mk5 and Mk3, and then splitting again to get 135/min on the Mk3 belt to output B, Merging the other 135/min back to the Mk5 output A
This works fine, as long as the input has at least 2x the amount of items/min that a Mk3 belt can transport, and both outputs are not backing up.

when output A backs up, more items will go to output B, and vice versa

When the input falls below 2x the capacity of a Mk3 belt, the output to out B will drop too

the only real rate limit is the max capacity of a belt.

The only values that you can rate limit to under all operating conditions are: 60, 120, 270, 480 and ultimately 780 items/min

It comes obvious that you can add different values afterwards.

[frosty owl]

I'm first limiting using a merger and MK2 belt as choker (270-120 = 150). The smart splitter checks for overflow and the splitter/merger connected to the outputs further makes sure that only 150/min can make it out of the smart splitter (120/min to the merger, 60/min to the splitter; then 30 to the merger, the other 30 looped back WITHOUT BACKING UP)

All to prove how the first balancer can work correctly or not

[frank mesa]

so 180 is possible by adding 60 and 120

[frosty owl]

Quickmaff!

[vapid gorge]

orly? Interesting

[river pagoda]

What is math

[median heath]

Indeed.

[crystal charm]

does anyone know the time delay for train cargo unloads

[vapid gorge]

28 seconds ~

[crystal charm]

cause, you know how output stops during that session

[crystal charm]

and a single small fluid container is what, 400m3 or 800?

[median heath]

27.08s*

[crystal charm]

so for a giant water train connecting to 16 pipes, i'm losing effectively 7mins worth of water flow in total

[vapid gorge]

You're talking like you have 2x 600 pm fluid attached to each platform?

[crystal charm]

maybe

[vapid gorge]

yeah don't do that.

[crystal charm]

i would never do that....

[vapid gorge]

You realise you can't get 2 full throughput belt/pipes off trains stations with 1 platform right?

[crystal charm]

each one comes out at max speed, but will pause while the train loads

[vapid gorge]

Yeah that's why you use the locomotive throughput formula to calculate how much a single car on a particular line can actually handle

[crystal charm]

and where might that be

[vapid gorge]

A safe way, in general, is to just do 1 mk5 belt or mk2 pipe per train car.

You, however, seem to be doing a world spanning and incredibly complex train line with junctions that will slow trains down each time you add another to the line.

You might not be able to do 1 mk5 per train car

Also consider making Turbine Exchanges

From what I recall you're intending to have a very complex, flexible, and BUSY train infrastructure so you should really invest in efficient junctions

[crystal charm]

not intending, already have

and so far it's workign fine

[vapid gorge]

yeah, make turbine interchanges.

Every train you add to a train line will reduce the max throughput of every other train that uses those sections

It's not linear either so it'll go from less noticeble to a huge problem fast

[crystal charm]

yes but almost every train is also overloaded

i.e will output double what is needed

except for the water

[vapid gorge]

There are ways around it sure
Making WAY more than you actually need.
Not efficient but it's a way.
You could also use multiple train cars per belt? makes the trains longer so still interferes a bit more with other trains but less so

There are ways around this. You just need to look into what is acceptable for you

[crystal charm]

some trains are single carriage transports, others are 8 carriage

depends on the train and what's needed

[vapid gorge]

Yup!
So want one idea that might work if you find your whole system overloaded later?

[crystal charm]

unless i add like a dozen more trains to this network it should be ok

the water thing i have a solution for

[vapid gorge]

oh fair then. Figured you'd be making a bunch more hubs later moving things.

[crystal charm]

well, i mean, i just turned on the final part of 32 nuclear plants

and the only thingi need to fix there is the water intake

there's not many more factories we need to make

[vapid gorge]

I was just going to say you could do a 2nd identical train line on top of the current one. Double throughput

[crystal charm]

oh i do that already with certain lines

rubber and plastic mainly

[vapid gorge]

❤️ stacked rail

[crystal charm]

if i'm producing exactly x of what something needs

and the delivery is a manifold system

will it eventually fill every factory?

32 nuclear plants need 6.4 rods pm, and that's exactly what i'm producing, or should be once the loads balance out on the other pipe i just fixed

[vapid gorge]

Yes, unless you're doing something really weird

[crystal charm]

they get built up here, put on a train, sent to the plants

i just checked, and all the manufacturers are now at 100% effficiency

[subtle elk]

thats a formula?

[vapid gorge]

by 'really weird' I just have 1 example

I split 1x mk5 600pm copper ore miner into 3 with a manifold for each of the three branches.

For some reason, the interaction with fluid delivery for the refineries involved created an infinite stutter that never go it moving properly even after having flooded the whole system

I fixed it by making the ore belt 1 long manifold. Don't ask why

[shadow prairie]

Official Satisfactory Wiki

This is the totally awesome community driven wiki for Satisfactory!! Come on in and check it out!
<3 @vapid gorge

[vapid gorge]

if you look up the wiki page with the electric locomotive there's a formula for what throughput you can get.
I find it's generally safe to do 1 mk5 per car.

At least early days. If you're making long or complex design it's good to use the formula to double check

[crystal charm]

did i show you the screen shot of the train network?

i can't remember

[vapid gorge]

youuu... showed a sketch maybe?

[crystal charm]

that's the connected network

there are about a half dozen single lines not connected to that network

[vapid gorge]

ah right, it's hard to get an idea from that since it doesn't show rails. You could go into scim, load the map and only show rail I guess for a better picture?

[crystal charm]

it's a dedi server and not mine, i can get the host to do that later though

[vapid gorge]

oooOOooo right yeah that'd be a problem for that.

[crystal charm]

there is one intersection in particular that would probably be worthwhile turning into that vortex style