math-and-meta

[wicked tinsel]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/World i should had linked that 🤔

[frosty owl]

Uranium processing: all sinkable except Uranium Waste
Plutonium processing: all unsinkable except Plutonium Fuel Rods

[upbeat tide]

I thought encased uranium cells was unsinkable too?

[frosty owl]

I agree, @Ondratra5826

Oh...

[wheat tundra]

I think I understand VIP. If I feed my packager from a low pipe, and put in a riser pipe ( like an inverse plumbing) trap, the packager should always get what it needs, than the rest of my factory gets the rest

[oblique hollow]

thats not vip. thats overflow

[wheat tundra]

Then I supply it with the max amount I can always consume 100%

Ok, but doesn't overflow do what I want?

[oblique hollow]

Ondar left last year

[oblique hollow]

if you need to feed one thing and have the rest be used elsewhere, and thats what you need, thats overflow

[wheat tundra]

thanks, I will try it out!

[oblique hollow]

VIP is a different thing used for other purposes

[wheat tundra]

understood

[versed violet]

It is not possible to make THE CART run loops in half pipe automatically, is it?

[oblique hollow]

the waypoint markers are too irregular for that

also cart loses speed when automated

for some aweful reason

[crystal charm]

i'm crunching some math here, trying to figure out the mats required to power 32 nuclear plants

and given that 1 uranium rod burns for 5 mins, i just divided 32 by 5 to get how many per minute

for some reason, my brain thinks that is wrong

[soft scarab]

You’re correct. You need (1 rod/5 mins = ) 0.2 rods per min per nuke, times 32 = 32*1/5 = 32/5

[crystal charm]

yeah i know that, that's how i got the 1 rod for 5 mintes

[oblique hollow]

yea, but if it burns for 5 minutes, that means you need them every 1/5 minutes

and since your reactors need rods/min and not 5 minutes, you divide by the 0.2

[crystal charm]

wait so, 32 divided by 0.2

but that's 160 rods per minute

[oblique hollow]

ah oops

its late for me xd

1 needs 0.2/min, so 32 need 0.2 * 32 / min
so the original math was right. just a bit weird to transform it into minutes

[crystal charm]

i'm tired too which is why my brain is hung up on simple math

[oblique hollow]

1 building needs this much per minute, so X needs X * (items/min)

[topaz hedge]

you have 32 reactors, each one uses .2/min multiply xd

or.. if you really want to divide, if each reactor burns 1 every 5 minutes, then 32 reactors burning a rods every 5 min would be 32/5 = 6.4

[crystal charm]

so yeah, my original math was right, my brain was just lying to me

[topaz hedge]

it's time for a break lol

[crystal charm]

actually it's early, it's time for coffee and food

or more hydration

according to SCIM, i need 16 manufacturers to maintain 6.4 rods p/m

[oblique hollow]

yep. it be like that

i think one does 0.4/min

[crystal charm]

i wish the wiki had nice and accurate foundation dimensions for each building

[oblique hollow]

we cant measure that accurately, especially with soft clearance / complex clearance affecting things

[crystal charm]

we've already got production of most the materials i'll need, i just have to build the manufacturers, do the belt math, and build a few train stations to bring in the goods

[tropic hawk]

Yeah...

[tropic hawk]

You can at least do a hitbox thing

[crystal charm]

so, i had a though, and i know, this thinking thing, not good for my head

but, when building blenders for uranium fuel, there is always that leftover sulfuric acid issue, and sometimes the VIP joints don't work properly

if i ship in my acid by train, could i not just load the excess acid back into the cargo platform?

[wintry aurora]

You can't insert it into the incoming supply, maybe you can have the trains pick up the excess? Still seems like you'd just end up with the same problem or it's just shifted elsewhere.

[crystal charm]

oh, bugger

maybe i'll just package and sink it

[oblique hollow]

ooor you just adjust the input precisely

its a single building, acid in acid out

[finite forum]

game isn't as precise as we'd like. even if everything is perfect there's imprecision.

[maiden marsh]

OK.

[soft scarab]

Yeah you probably don’t want an entire production line uniquely dedicated to plutonium but to import some of the other products you’ll need

[maiden marsh]

just to get a ballpark, what is a typical setup like for 1 uranium node

[wintry aurora]

I don't know how typical this one is, but it's off of one uranium node: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=uxiZgGWaNyYk2IsQXGWn

[crystal charm]

actually in the build i'm preparing it'll be more like 14 blenders

side note, trains, and six freight cars, will i need 2 engines?

[wintry aurora]

It's not max miner output, but you'll get a general ballpark.

[crystal charm]

and if so, how do i build the station

the wiki didn't seem to help me there

[wintry aurora]

I've seen a diagram posted before, not sure where it is though.

[shy mason]

needing a second engine depends on if you need to go up hill with it. if they are going in same direction doesn't really matter placement, so front and back of train would work and minimize empty platforms you may need.

you can ride the train in it's route while in autopilot to see if it stalls on hills before needing to add in the 2nd engine

[crystal charm]

there are hills in the route yes

[tropic hawk]

Yes, barely. I do full nuclear which has trains are 10 cars:2 engines

[crystal charm]

question, where do you put the engines, both on front?

and if so, how do you set up the station, does it go Station, Empty Platform, freight.....

[oblique hollow]

engine goes either front or back, depending if you want bidirectional trains. and yes, if its at the front, its: train station > empty > freight

[wide saffron]

hi all how many water pumps per nuke is it

[wind spade]

2.5

[wide saffron]

cool ty

[frosty owl]

Ok
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/553550313533997057/951567923162517504/SFR_floor_3_with_pipes.JPG

[fierce ruin]

now this is satisfying

[upbeat tide]

I dedicate entire factories to my own plutonium production as well. One of them produces 22.4 pressure conversion cubes and other the 448 encased plutonium cells

[frosty owl]

I'm the opposite, as I prefer to do all the processing in one place, so the factory is completely independent. That what's in screenshot ^^

(Only the rods manufacturers are outside the bulding due their excessive radiation, effing Plutonium Cells reeee )

[frosty owl]

Btw @upbeat tide, aren't you going to have the same issues as last time if your "nuclear pipes" have to carry max flow?
Eg: MK1 pipe can and must provide 300/min. Loading the game makes the generator lose some water. Pipe can't refill the loss

[tropic hawk]

Now just make consumption flat.

[rustic cypress]

question, what happens when a splitter result is a decimal?

[wind spade]

splitter doesn't split in items/min, it just alternates between exits

so first item goes to e.g. left, second to middle, third to right, repeat

[rustic cypress]

thanks

[wind spade]

you can calculate with items/min still - e.g. if you are splitting 15/min into two exits, you'll get 7.5/min on each, but that just means that over two minutes, you'll get 15 minutes on the belt (7.5 * 2)

[tribal kiln]

anyone know off the top of their head the ratio for refineries(pure node)vs fuel gens?

[vapid gorge]

depends on the recipes you use. use satisfactorytools.com

or quickly math it out, generator use / (oil to fuel)

[soft scarab]

300 oil = 66 fuel gens = 10 GW

Using diluted fuel ofc

[serene ruin]

I think it's 11 refineries at 300% for 1 pure. I usually jsut use the extra stuff that comes from making rubber an plastic to fuel them.

[hexed ridge]

does the satisfactory calculator do exact figures, seems to me like it's rounding a bit?

[wind spade]

which one?

[hexed ridge]

the production planner in the pins on this channel

[wind spade]

there's three of them 🤷‍♂️

[hexed ridge]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production'

[wind spade]

well, I don't know about that one 🤷‍♂️

but given some numbers are periodic, you can't really have 100% accurate calculations (not to mention computers can't do that and also the game can't do that)

[slender nacelle]

GaaaaAAAAH what a pain
How do you folks usually balance Rotor production load

[wind spade]

we don't, we use manifolds

[slender nacelle]

wait am I the weird one

[quaint ridge]

I use those 2 programs: excel and satisfactory

[wind spade]

just something like this

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

S = splitter
X = any production machine or whatever

[slender nacelle]

so am I the only weird one doing stuff like this

[quaint ridge]

both techniques works, one is way easier to set up than the other

[wind spade]

you're not the only one, but balancing is a thing that you only do for the sake of doing it 🤷‍♂️

with a few exceptions, it's not really needed

[slender nacelle]

lol

figures

Didnt like the fact that manifold lines take a bit of time to spin up 100%

[wind spade]

what's 20 minutes in a game you play for 100 hours

also, you can pre-fill it or let it fill while you build the next section

[slender nacelle]

Maybe I should try for next line

I can feed the end of a manifold to a sink and it won't cause too much problem right?

Assuming the line gets more resource than it needs?

[quaint ridge]

maybe use smart spliters

[wind spade]

you can, ideally with a smart splitter with overflow

[slender nacelle]

Yeah but that's some tech levels off from where I'm currently at

Got a habit of wiping saves for every major updates sooo

[wind spade]

you can find caterium pretty much immediately from start 🤷‍♂️

so it's just a matter of unlocking MAM

(well, it also needs AI limiters 🤷‍♂️ )

[median heath]

I unlock Smart Splitters before I unlock Coal Power.

[slender nacelle]

huh

don't you need plastic for circuits

[median heath]

You don't need CBs for smarts...

[slender nacelle]

or am I misremembering requirements-

[median heath]

Very much misremembering.

You need AILs.
Which is just QW and CSheets.

[slender nacelle]

ohhh

[noble agate]

Yeah, only need caterium for smart splitters

Which can be tough to find depending on starting location, without scanner

[slender nacelle]

I do think I have enough loose caterium this time

[noble agate]

Once you find some caterium, even just standalone deposit, you can unlock scanning in MAM

[median heath]

For people on their first couple runs 100%.
Eventually you memorize where they are at.

[slender nacelle]

the loose rocks on the ground are randomly placed right?

[median heath]

Placement is fixed.
What the rocks are is randomized.

[slender nacelle]

I recall having a very unlucky uranium formation spawn near starting location...

[noble agate]

I had one near my starting base on first save too.. didn’t know they are random

Being a noob I thought my problems were solved when I unlocked nuclear power. Turns out it was just a rock with a few uranium 😛

[glacial iris]

so not considering choking on conveyors any estimate on how long in minutes a mk5 can empty a truck station full of 200 stack items would take? trying to time deliveries

[noble agate]

Not an expert on trucks as I don’t use them. But it seems to be 48 slots for materials and two output ports. With one mk5 belt it takes 48x200/780=12.3 minutes to empty it (remember mk5 belts might not give full 780/min). With two mk5 belts it should take half of that time.

[glacial iris]

thanks the math and alegrba are not a strong suit of mine x.x"

[median heath]

Linking a .exe file in a Discord?

Why would we want free Satisfactory when we already own it?

[vague token]

lmao what

@dark badge could you remove it please : )

[tropic hawk]

Or rather, why would we want a virus?

[snow dove]

exactly

[tropic hawk]

Love that PFP.

[snow dove]

“Leaves from the vine…”

[burnt wraith]

for load balancing I make more machines up to a number divisible by 3s and/or 2s then underclock the machines

[versed violet]

Looking at the heatsink wiki page.
WTF does resin have to do with aluminium?

[soft scarab]

If you are using coke, you’ll make it with HOR which has resin as a byproduct

I forget which alternate it is exactly that lets you use petroleum coke

[wind spade]

it doesn't always tho

you can have HOR already as a byproduct

[soft scarab]

Yeah

[versed violet]

Pipe question: do valves prevent sloshing?

I'm debugging a pipe problem where flow is supposed to be 600, but it occassionally drops to 400. Adding couple valves remediated the issue a bit, but end refineries are still starving

[wind spade]

Loop the pipe

No valves

[versed violet]

If Only I have left myself enough space to fit the loop.

[oblique hollow]

meeeeeeh... partially

but not with 600 flow

only with anything below that

in your case its not sloshing, but junction backflow interrupting the input

you NEED a manifold loop to fix that

and no, valves cant prevent junction backflow. they are still subject to pressure feedback

[versed violet]

If I have a junction used to turn a corner, then next junction after that is the one feeding first refinery, which one the loop needs to start at?

[oblique hollow]

the one directly with the input pipe

since junctions have no flow limit. so you want the loop to start at the same junction as the actual manifold

[versed violet]

Its the definition of where manifold starts I'm asking here 😂

[oblique hollow]

first junction where it starts splitting to machines

and also ergo first junction that receives input flow for the machines

[versed violet]

The first junction in blue. has one input and one output pipe, because used to turn a corner. the first three way split for machines starts at next one

loop from blue or red one then?

[oblique hollow]

does the blue one only go around the corner?

so no 1 pipe into 2 pipes?

i consider the first "manifold junction" a junction that has 1 pipe splitting into 2

1 to 1 does not count

[versed violet]

exactly.
well, hold on...
does a bit stub of pipe that extends to nearest support count as pipe if there is no flow?

[oblique hollow]

somehting like this?

pipe into nothing, second pipe goes somewhere?

[versed violet]

yes

[oblique hollow]

then yes

those also cause stutters

"dead end pipes" and "sudden-dead end pipes"

sudden dead ends are for example the pipes going into machines

as those can stop flowing due to the machine being full

any dead end is DEVASTATING to pipes with max flow. Especially Mk2

[versed violet]

Will the loop work if I connect it to middle of manifold?

[oblique hollow]

yes, as long as it connects to the first input junction

the input is the most important connection point

all else is bonus

[versed violet]

looped it to the end, will see how that fares.

I thought I had the pipez figured out by now

[wind spade]

Pipes are ez - looped pipe manifold everywhere, no buffers or pumps unless vertical, done

[slender nacelle]

Why do I want to loop it?

[wind spade]

To prevent issues with pipe manifolds

[normal sluice]

is there any math on how much a merger slows down a belt?

is it going to be the # of merges divided by the speed? so basically if i use all 3..and go mk4, it would be 160 pps?

[soft scarab]

It does not slow down a belt

If your output from the merger cannot carry all of the merger inputs, then yes, the throughput of each belt will be that belt’s fraction of the total inputs to the merger times the output capacity

[fierce ruin]

So basically the meta is building shit so you can build more shit

[median heath]

That's like saying the "the meta of being human is breathing and ensuring your heart keeps beating"

[vapid gorge]

The game is building shit to build more shit yes?

[fierce ruin]

Yes

[vapid gorge]

Yes

[median heath]

Yes.

[fierce ruin]

Well that’s actually wrong cuz you can’t breath when you are swimming you know

[vapid gorge]

Just a longer pause between breathes. Checkmate

[median heath]

People breathe while swimming all the time...

And this one will blow your mind:

People breathe while diving underwater.

[vapid gorge]

And you CAN breathe water. Just not for long generally

[fierce ruin]

But you can’t breath when you are dead and when people are dead they’re still human

[vapid gorge]

Nah then they are meat

[median heath]

Bring oxygen tank.
Breathing under water accomplished.

[vapid gorge]

Breathing under water =/= breathing water

[median heath]

Aware.

[fierce ruin]

Human meat

[vapid gorge]

... checkmate?

[median heath]

Technically if you go by volume of cells in your body that actually contain human DNA, there are more cells that are NOT human than ones that are.

Checkmate intensifies.

[fierce ruin]

Where did you get that Wikipedia cuz that’s wrong cuz photosynthesis

[median heath]

It's correct but believe what you will.

[vapid gorge]

You're full of microbes basically. Plus other weird things. It's why there's certain parts of the body that is better for collecting dna from people

And junk dna. We're all just made of garbage

[fierce ruin]

If photosynthesis is a photo where is the video you see the government created photosynthesis to take photos and systhesis it’s obvious

And that’s why Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves

Any questions?

[tropic hawk]

Yeah. Which college gave you a degree?

[fierce ruin]

i have a master in art

[tropic hawk]

Even better, hold a glass of water over your head.

[tropic hawk]

That explains it...

[fierce ruin]

harvard

[proven prawn]

well it looks like i broke the production calculator, it couldn't calculate any result😅

[visual grail]

Usually means your proposed Factory is impossible with the recipes/inputs you have provided

[proven prawn]

No its a issue with the beta calculator, the normal one works fine

I just really need to stop using it for now until it gets more stable I guess

[tropic hawk]

Then post it on the forum

Nvm

[proven prawn]

you know whats really broken about it...if you change the production number of like nuclear pasta from like 5 to 6, it goes from not being able to calculate to being able to calculate, like what how does that work🤣

[serene ruin]

did the game start with pasta code, askin for a friend..

and he already knows why the memes are real

did anyone at the studio think to just cut the requirements in half for everything and have half the shit on the belts?

cuz those 10 second save times, man are they fun

also maybe turn off autosave

[median heath]

Imagine complaining about 10s save times in the world of 45 minute day-one update patches...

Or considering loading screens used to be multiple-minutes long...

10s is nothing.

[serene ruin]

so don't improve it yer saying

[median heath]

I'm saying A) it's fine, B) lowering 10s save times is not high priority atm.

[serene ruin]

are you a developr of the game

[wind spade]

are you?

[serene ruin]

i am not

[wind spade]

it's pretty hard to lower save file time if you're limited by IO speed

[serene ruin]

what exactly is IO speed

[wind spade]

Input/Output

basically reading from RAM/saving to HDD/SSD

[serene ruin]

so my suggestion was to actually limit that

[wind spade]

it's already limited... by your hardware

[serene ruin]

less stuff to save

[wind spade]

how do you save less stuff, but still keep all the things saved?

[median heath]

Do I need to be a dev to understand they have higher priorities?
No. Considering the devs themselves have said they have higher priorities.
Like figuring out what they want the end of the game to even look like.

[serene ruin]

my suggestion was to remove half the shit in the game that's automatically being built

it's more a balance issue if anything

[median heath]

QA site is the best place to file suggestions.

[serene ruin]

cool

[wind spade]

what's being built automatically?

[serene ruin]

you never played the game huh

[wind spade]

I just want to understand what you're talking about

[median heath]

😂

[serene ruin]

i gotta go

good timing

[median heath]

Saw that coming 🙃

[wind spade]

and I won't get my answer 😦

[serene ruin]

dude stop

my fallback fell out

you just handle everything with yer hands?

well that actualy...

[still trout]

lmao

[wind spade]

I'm not really sure what you're talking about... I'm just asking what kind of "automatically built" stuff from the game you want removed

[still trout]

deelish what is built automatically in the game

does your game have like ruins of old factories and such

[serene ruin]

not removed, limited by 50%

so it doesn;'t destroy people's computers

[vapid kernel]

Yes they always optimize with each patch

[wind spade]

what do you want to limit by 50%? what kind of stuff?

[serene ruin]

all of it

[wind spade]

example?

[vapid kernel]

What you build hurts your pc the most

[serene ruin]

that's limiting to players tho yeah?

it's really simple

you remove a ton of stuff the player has to save

why are you against this so badly

[wind spade]

so what? machines?

[still trout]

only thing being saved is your factory and afaik the changes you made to the enviroment

[serene ruin]

and every item on the belts

[vapid kernel]

the game is literally 1 second saves until we place more things

[wind spade]

you only save 50% of machines? so every save you lose 50% of your factory? or what do you mean?

[serene ruin]

really not understanding this?

[wind spade]

not really, what do you want to remove from savefile? what kind of entity/object?

[serene ruin]

the develpors would

not remove

have you looked at a save fiule?

[wind spade]

yes?

[serene ruin]

guy that doesn't understand automachine

[vapid kernel]

omg

[serene ruin]

yeah alright

i know it's automation

[still trout]

yo deelish youre the one whose explanations are extremely confusing

[serene ruin]

just worried he wouldn't understand

[still trout]

get to the point

[serene ruin]

i said my point, cut everything in half

[wind spade]

what everything though?

[serene ruin]

requirements, belt speeds

[wind spade]

for example you have a savefile with 4 constructors. In the savefile, there are 4 entities (constructors). What do you want to remove/reduce/whatever so that the savefile is smaller?

[still trout]

that wouldnt cut all machines in half though

[wind spade]

requirements and belt speeds are saved in game's .pak file, they are not in savefile

[serene ruin]

i'm not talking about save file size

i'm talking about the game running smoother'

fucking morons really, wtf

[wind spade]

alright, what would you change to make the game run smoother?

[still trout]

that wouldnt even affect anything, since if you have 100 resources being turned into 50 in 2 machines and you cut that in half you get 50 turned into 25 in two machines still

[serene ruin]

that's less..

[vapid kernel]

<@&387163995947270144>

[still trout]

items on belts is an insignificant source of lag

[serene ruin]

did you jsut report me? omfg

[weary ravine]

👀

[serene ruin]

what is then developer tommy?

[median heath]

I mean you're being obtuse and then lashing out with namecalling... so 🤷‍♂️

[serene ruin]

they said it in a vidio

[weary ravine]

Can everyone just chill please?

[serene ruin]

oh boy

[weary ravine]

No reason to start namecalling/insulting people

[serene ruin]

that's yer hinge, ok

thanks fer playing

way to bury a good idea

fuckin idiots

here we go again

[still trout]

you havent even expressed your idea clearly

[serene ruin]

i said it twice

[wind spade]

I still didn't get an answer about what is your idea. You want to make the game run smoother, alright. What exact steps would you do to make the game run smoother? What kind of things would you want to replace/remove?

[median heath]

From my understanding it is this:

2️⃣ ✂️ 1️⃣

[serene ruin]

literally, and pay attention you monkeys, cut the shit in half

belts run half the stuff

have you clowns even palyed the game?

[still trout]

that does not affect anything

[weary ravine]

Move on please

[still trout]

was that guy high or something

[weary ravine]

Just move on 🙃

[median heath]

So I think we may need to reevaluate when Fluid Trains become worse than Frieght ones.

[wind spade]

always has been

fluid is PITA to move

[still trout]

train users 👻

[median heath]

Ok.
But what's the criteria used for "worse" in the "always has been" context?

[still trout]

all my homies be spaghetti piping

[median heath]

(I do like pipelines tbh)

But that isn't for this particular topic.

[wind spade]

• moving fluid is pain
• it's easier to process fluid onsite
• solids are easier to work with
• packaged stuff means more fluid per train

[still trout]

damn you're right

theres some effort in packing and unpacking though

[median heath]

Packaged stuff is what I specifically want to look at.

Because previously you could make the argument that it's fine to use a fluid car if you're transporting only the amount 1 car can hold.

Above that, package and ship.

But if you're packaging and shipping, you're normally going to do that closed-loop where you send the empty containers back.

Which means adding at least 1 car for that.

So automatically I'd bump fluid cars to being fine if you're using 2 or less.

Beyond that is where it gets fuzzy for me because I haven't done the maths yet.

[wind spade]

also power costs 🤔

but for any calculations regarding fluid transportation, I'd just answer "don't" 😄

[quaint ridge]

Boy that was fun to read

[median heath]

We aim to please.

[tropic hawk]

In my opinion there is a use case for everything. Most people don't have the use case where massive fluid trains is good. That doesn't mean it's bad, it just means it's not as efficient for your use case. (Personally I hate packages with a burning passion, so I avoid them)

[median heath]

I'm going to math it when I get home and post my findings.

[quaint ridge]

I've never had the pleasure to use fluid trains transportation but I plan to, what's the big deal with it?

[tropic hawk]

One word: Headlift.

And maybe throughput if you are being really pendantic.

[quaint ridge]

That's the good thing with trains, you can make them go higher and then let the fluid flow down by itself ? Sooo how is that an issue? ^^

[tropic hawk]

I misread your message. Thought you were talking about fluids in general...

A thought just occurred to me.
Hold please!
<Intense calculation noises>

[quaint ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/jon-stewart-eat-eating-popcorn-watching-gif-5102037

[oblique hollow]

depends on how you want to transport them

fluid platforms are the most direct train method, but also much lower throughput for a given train size

due to the fluid freight container only holding like 1600 m³

[tropic hawk]

2400 m^3 = fluid platform capacity. Who want to guess what is wrong with this number?

[oblique hollow]

freight car is smaller

[quaint ridge]

but it should be enough to allow the fluids to run smoothly between factories with no interruption as long as you have enough trains, no ?

[oblique hollow]

yeah but now you are cluttering your rails with trains for fluids

[quaint ridge]

2400 for the freight platform, 1600 for the car, yeah

[tropic hawk]

The platform, not the car

For my number

[quaint ridge]

so if the rails are only dedicated to fluids, it's fine

[tropic hawk]

Or have a big enough railway.

Also, the fluid tank rendering for the platform is 8x8x16m (roughly) guess what is wrong with that?

[quaint ridge]

shhhh

[oblique hollow]

its very..... compact.... for a fluid container

[quaint ridge]

don't say the forbidden words when the Gods can hear us

[muted crypt]

we are the knights who say-

[tropic hawk]

Want to know something neat about the fluids (other than nitro gas)? They don't compress.

[oblique hollow]

yeah we know, if they were accurate they would only hold like 1000 m³

[quaint ridge]

they do, you're just not strong enough

how do you think a neutron star forms ?

[tropic hawk]

Quantum physics is calling you...

[tropic hawk]

When you start breaking things.

[oblique hollow]

the game also wants to convince you a 0.5 m³ fuel canister is holding 1m³

[quaint ridge]

that's why we invented superglue

[oblique hollow]

sooo that logic is already out the window

[quaint ridge]

thank god not everything in games follow logic ^^

[tropic hawk]

Still though... If FICSIT discovered pocket dimensions, how have they not discovered teleportation via wormholes?

[quaint ridge]

imagine a QTE for when the pioneer has to change his piss-bag?

[oblique hollow]

"Space dilation is still in the R&D phase at FICSIT research facilities. It's not yet recommended to try walking through walls. Purchase a Door today for safe factory traversal"

its an actual ingame blurb

[quaint ridge]

they should research around quantum tunnelling

the probability to walk through a wall is never 0

[oblique hollow]

depending on the size of the object that probability goes down a lot

besides, you can clip most objects through walls already

[quaint ridge]

^^

[oblique hollow]

and you can increase your chance to pass through by 100%

Quantum Physicists HATE it!
This one simple trick makes you tunnel through any wall at 100% success rate!

[tropic hawk]

Gives pioneers literal pocket dimensions

[oblique hollow]

and still no spatial dilation tech. hmmmm

someone at ficsit screwed up

[quaint ridge]

Not me trains collide in the background

[tropic hawk]

Also, why can FICSIT hardware phase through rock?

[quaint ridge]

we have a saying in French: "ta gueule, c'est magique" and it's beautiful

[proven prawn]

the idea is simple by reducing the amount of items required for everything, recipe wise, resource wise, make all items more valuble basically you can reduce the amount of machines, etc and those make the game run much smoother as a result. It's a idea I thought of myself in the past but one that didn't gain much traction.

[quaint ridge]

I'm pretty sure that if you're someone who can create a game like Satisfactory, you know how to do basic math and think of that kind of solution if it's needed ^^

[proven prawn]

hmmm I wonder, I'm sure the developers have their own reasons for not going with that type of solution, but the basic math checks out anyways

example by implementing said solution you drastically reduce overall games building complexity and make things in some ways essentially easier to achieve as part of the current difficulty is with scale and that would definitely change those scale factories, so i imagine that is part of the reason a definite possibility

[soft scarab]

Why don’t you just build less if you want the game to run smoother?

I don’t think there’s anything in the game that particularly requires substantial scale. It just takes longer, but so does building everything out

[versed violet]

There is a mod for that!
10x/100x machines

[soft scarab]

Also that!

[versed violet]

I'm starting to think that transporting nitrogen by fluid train is a very bad idea

[worthy island]

Looks cool tho

[worthy island]

I'll start fused frames soon and was thinking of using a dual locomotive shuttle style train for the nitrogen. What don't you like about it?

[soft scarab]

I decided to build my fused modular frame factory (and for that matter my HMF factory too) directly on top of the rocky desert nitrogen well

[tropic hawk]

Why is that?

[silver cargo]

so excited for this one...

[versed violet]

Looong trip (couple minutes), and the fluid wagon only fits 1600m3 of nitrogen. That means station will be refilled after 2,5minutes with single mk2 pipe.
For comparison, 240 nitrogen packs into 60 bottles. So 1600m3 of nitrogen is 400 bottles. Thats 4 slots. A wagon can fit 8 times more.

The only big problem is organizing return of the empty bottles.

So if you start looking at double fruid freight, you can transport 4 times more with bottle in + bottle out freight

[lavish agate]

It's worth to make compact coal? If yes, there is a best place?

[versed violet]

For burning in coal plant? No.

It is useful for turbofuel and making cheap gunpowder.

[soft scarab]

It’s worth it for compacted steel, until you need sulfur for batteries / uranium

[tropic hawk]

Um...
Turbofuel?

[versed violet]

Solid steel is better steel recipe imo

[vapid gorge]

once you get to batteries and uranium you'll be wanting to use distance sources of ores and things so unless you're going really big you could burn sulfur to make steel but as a preference I hate compacted steel

[soft scarab]

Depends if your steel production is limited by coal or by iron

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it's hard to say something is 'objectively' better.
But the value for Compacted steel would be 'not needing to move some extra coal'
Like if you absolutely need a BIT more steel at a location cause you didn't want to move it and help build with other things.

Made more so because sulfur is rare so few locations you can make use of the 'less logistics' benefit.

[soft scarab]

Yeah I’ve had several playthroughs where sulfur is just sitting there, I have abundant iron, and want more steel

[vapid gorge]

I mean fair? I suppose I've never been in a spot where the amount of extra steel I needed made it not just simpler finding a better piece of real estate.

[grave cobalt]

End of the theory-craft on my part. Plan mainly for:

• 20 Thermal Propulsion Rocket
• 20 Nuclear Pasta
• 80 Magnetic Field Generator
• 80 Assembly Director System
  ⚡ Using a base of 275GW / 415GW power (included 30 Uranium Rod & 1200 Turbo Fuel)

Notes:

• copper powder not including pushing copper at 92,6%
• using 43 alternate recipes
• Avoiding most of refineries pure recipes

Do you think a world save can handle that in well crafted buildings ?

[wind spade]

save will handle it, not sure about your pc though 😛

[worthy island]

What is all the limestone for?

[grave cobalt]

My pc is already limited, Im playing GeForce Now + Server

[grave cobalt]

I had extra basic resources so i made an extra 80 HMF/min
(All the Encased beams are used for the HMF)
Not sure if i will keep it

[quaint ridge]

What bottleneck Satisfactory on a PC ?

[wind spade]

depends on pc and world

can be anything, CPU, GPU, RAM, ...

[quaint ridge]

intel i5 8600K, 16 Go RAM and a 1080 for the graphic card ^^

[wind spade]

yeah again, depends on what you build in the world, what's running on the background, etc. it's not possible to tell just like that

[worthy island]

Clever!

[grave cobalt]

When i done tweaking the numbers, i will send the satisfactory calculator link here

[willow mist]

For me it’s ram and I have 16 gb 3200 MHz and it still uses all of it on large worlds

[quaint ridge]

why don't you just download more RAM

[willow mist]

Bruh

Lemme get right on that lmao

[vapid kernel]

download more ram . com

[willow mist]

Why is that an actual site lmaooo

[gloomy pecan]

where did you make that list (image)

[grave cobalt]

On https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production
You have a lot of resources pin in this channel

[gloomy pecan]

gracias

[full thorn]

Very proud of this. 2600 MW of power, and 60 rubber and plastic /min, perfectly optimized

[pale fulcrum]

Very nice!

Reminds me of the fact that i most definitely need to upgrade my power from coal to fuel

[snow dove]

Fuel is a game changer, it’s simpler when you start out and it produces more power

It’s only simpler when you start out.

Once you get past it a bit then the next step is alternate diluted fuel and alternate HOR

[pale fulcrum]

oh im aware this is my 10th playthrough 😆

[snow dove]

Nice.

[grave cobalt]

The plans have been separated in two to allow multiple recipes for a single item, thus balancing it more.

• Main: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=Y8IYM749BELGTcGgmTkN
• Alternatives: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=ukU6sYKNJiE9JdT7gZIv
  Numbers are nearly all even

Any way to get perfect numbers on a lopping oil production (recycled recipes) ?

[median heath]

Define "perfect numbers"?

[grave cobalt]

More even numbers for the machine count. I have for exemple 200,772 rafineries for recycle plastic

[median heath]

Machine count is easily manipulated by adjusting clock speed.

Like if you need 49 machines, you just make 50 and have the last 2 at 50%

Take the total % you need from all machines and divide it into whatever number you wish as long as it doesn't take any below 1% or above 250%.

[grave cobalt]

The goal of me theory crafting before building is to avoid a maximum to have to do those things when ig

[median heath]

Interesting take.
Personally the Tools layout is just a starting point and I adjust from there to what I am actually going to build.

[grave cobalt]

Yeah, i like to go deep in the maths
The recycling oil loop is just a bit more complicated to optimise

[median heath]

45-81 rule will save you a lot of pain.

[elfin wyvern]

Sorry I’m a noob.. 45-81 rule?

[median heath]

Specific to this:

When using the Recycled Loop, do your Plastic and Rubber in multiples of 81.
Eliminates all rounding shit from machine clock speeds and sets them at clean numbers that fall within the 4 decimal limit.

Because the game does not work in ppm. The game works entirely based on Cycle Times with respect to Clock Speed.

Being able to set a machine to a specific ppm is just there to make you feel better.
If the number you want causes the Clock Speed to be a repeating decimal, then you are actually getting that number. You're getting whatever number the Clock Speed vs. Cycle Time actually computes to

For non-oil products, you use 45 instead of 81.
The only recipes I know of that don't follow the 45 rule are Pure Iron, Caterium Circuit Board, and Fine Concrete.

Third one is garbage anyway so it doesn't matter. Other 2 are done in high enough volumes that finding a non-repeating decimal is usually simple.

[noble agate]

Multiples of 9 is enough. I calculated that for my oil factory and realised all the production targets are either thirds or ninths of the initial crude oil amount 🙂

[wind spade]

or just underclock

[noble agate]

I wanted to use all the oil anyway, so yes, I underclocked the last machine for each production step

[median heath]

If you're purely using the Recycled Loop 9 may be "enough" but it isn't "perfection".

Though given 9 goes into 81, there is going to be a lot of overlap.

[noble agate]

I don’t understand why it’s not perfect though. I created these graphs for my video on the topic:

If you start with 9, or 18 or 90 (or 81) crude oil, you get nice round number for each step.

[median heath]

Because 8/9 = 0.8888888888888888888

[wind spade]

you can't really "split fuel" though

unless you mean "1/3rd of production is separate"

[median heath]

Using 81 means all machines fall into a clock speed of xx.xxxx and never beyond that limit.
Which means what you're getting is precisely what is shown.

If you do a number that calls for a machine to be at 98.888888888888% you won't get it. You will get only 98.8888%.

[wind spade]

well, precisely what the game can give you which may not be precise enough

[median heath]

And as greeny pointed out, you can't do 1/3.

[earnest glen]

the recycled plubber gave me nuts at the time. But just because i want to balance plastic, rubber including residual rubber in the mix

[median heath]

Mainly because 1/3 doesn't truly exist in base 10 or base 2 math.

[noble agate]

My point is that you start from multiple of 9 and then you can get one third (3) or one ninth (1)

[wind spade]

well my point was that you can't "balance" fuel with pipes

[median heath]

True.

[median heath]

And my point is that we did a whole afternoon of math on solving this and the answer for the Recycled Loop is 81. 🤷‍♂️

[earnest glen]

if anyone is intrested, that's the result:

[median heath]

81
40.5
20.25
10.125
5.0625

[wind spade]

why would you want to balance plastic/rubber to be equal? unless you're super lucky, you'll probably need some different ratio than that

[median heath]

Those are the numbers you work with for Recycled.

[snow dove]

Too much math, spaghetti will make it work.

[wind spade]

ideally you want to build what you need, not pre-build something in some arbitrary amount/ratio and then hope it'll be enough and correct

[earnest glen]

just because i like to make big factories out of fully overclocked nodes in the end-game, and then bring what i need away with a world train network. For the balanced numbers, just because i like them 🙂

[fierce ruin]

Does anybody have a formula or the math required to figure out how many blenders to convert waste to non fissile material, and then non fissile material over to plutonium pellets? I am trying to make the math work to be able to eliminate all of my waste, but it seems like I will have too much waste left even after I make the pellets

[noble agate]

With standard recipes, 3/4 of the waste goes to blenders and 1/4 to particle accelerators.

[fierce ruin]

My build was going to be 100 reactors, which would generate 1000 waste per minute

Trying to work out the numbers here between blenders and then particles. Hoping to plug it into satisfactory calculator but I really need the final number of plut pellets

[noble agate]

Should be 750 for the blenders for non-fissile uranium then, and 250 for particle accelerators for plutonium pellets

[median heath]

Use Tools.

Will give you the entire line.
Just have to manually input Ur waste amount.

[noble agate]

I advice building more capacity than you need for 100% efficiency, though. That way you can burn extra waste if it starts piling up if you mess something up.

[wind spade]

this made me think if a "use all the input" checkbox would be nice to have

(even better - per input)

[fierce ruin]

Trying to figure out how to even enter it inside of satisfactory calculator

I would just set the "output" as a final pellet number and let it work backwards, but I can't do that if I can't figure out the right ratio

Any advice on how to plug it into satisfactory calculator?

[median heath]

On the tab where you set inputs for ores and such, right side has a part where you can manually enter any material and amount you want.

And use TOOLS.

[fierce ruin]

Okay. I have this plugged in, but this doesn't seem like the right spot since this column should just reduce the requirements its asking for down at the bottom.

Actually, It think I figured it out

I also set this as the output, so now it SHOULD hopefully maximize using the waste to build as many pellets as possible

[fierce ruin]

Wow, tools seems a lot better laid out vs satisfactory calculator

[tropic hawk]

It is. Go congratulate @wind spade for it.

[oblique hollow]

i did the math for this some time ago myself in open office.
the ideal ratio for recycled setups is multiples of 27 crude oil

it does a perfect calc of equal output

and factors in residual rubber usage

if you put in 27 crude, you should get the same results in your equations

[earnest glen]

thanks for the input! The formula above works great anyway, for any quantity of fuel available. When i finally got it on "paper", i solved it, but i tried do all those passages in my head a countless times eheh. Now i saved it in my factory dedicated Google Sheet, so i don't forget it haha

[oblique hollow]

i can share this sheet for anyone else interested

[earnest glen]

anyhow I like the fact in the very end you get that "180" as a sort of constant, amazed by the math behind

[oblique hollow]

i think that magic constant is the 4.1666666% in my case

as thats the usable fuel divided by residual rubber

and it directly influences the ratio of recycled rubber to recycled plastic refineries

Rubber Out = Fuel * (1-0.0416666)
Plastic Out = Fuel * (1+0.0416666)

whiiiiiich brings me to ANOTHER constant

the total number of refineries for recycled plastic or rubber is
Crude Oil * 11.25

thats it. thats a constant

its a permanent ratio

ah oops

[earnest glen]

this game has suprised me in so many ways 🙂 Now of all the ones in my library is the most played

[oblique hollow]

other way around.
Crude Oil / 11.25

[median heath]

Where do you see 180?

[oblique hollow]

residual rubber / 180

in my case, its
Residual Rubber / (3 * Fuel)

[median heath]

Main thing I see on what you linked is that both work out to 40.5

Which reinforces the 81 rule for Plastic/Rubber 🙃

[earnest glen]

in the end are different approaches to the same problem, the constants varies based on the perspective at which you look at the problem 🙂

[oblique hollow]

aye. wich works back to 27 crude due to 81 being 27*3

proving that 27 is the true rule

[median heath]

This.
And nothing in here works out to 180 🙃

[earnest glen]

ahah

3 is the real magic number

[oblique hollow]

180/3

[earnest glen]

make every factory works ahah

[median heath]

Closest I can get to something being 180 is 177.1875

[median heath]

Is 60...

[oblique hollow]

11.25 is 81 / 7.2 ........

more number magic

[earnest glen]

Anyhow, i'm not pretending* to achieve absolute perfection like you did @median heath , I'm happy with my rounded decimals 🙂 I see the factory going well anyway

[median heath]

If you try to tools out a line that is 92.25 (81+11.25) it's going to get messy AF.

[median heath]

I'm not pretending?

[earnest glen]

thank you, my english is what it is -.-

[median heath]

81 is the number.
81, 40.5, 20.25, 10.125

[still trout]

bruh why all this complicated math just build machin

[earnest glen]

#math-and-meta

[oblique hollow]

i can now build machine easier knowing that i never need to round if i use multiple of 27 crude

[median heath]

Aye.

[oblique hollow]

btw i think the real magic is 1.35
81 / 60 = 1.35

[median heath]

Now you're just causing me pain on purpose.

[still trout]

i think the real magic is 1
81/81 = 1

[median heath]

Terms of Crude in 27 or of product in 81.

Outside of that you're just hurting me intentionally 😭

[oblique hollow]

3^4

proof that satis is 4D

[tropic hawk]

Of course. Do you know how much time I have sunk into this game?!?!

[versed violet]

Show your accumulated point total !

[tropic hawk]

There is a difference between time and points (shoves 87 uncomleted world's into an external hard drive)

[versed violet]

Then you are not sinking time, just iddling around.
Also, there may, someday, be mod for that (sinking time. Iddling around is already in vanilla game)

[tropic hawk]

All those worlds taught me something new as well as reinforced an old point.

So it was time well spent.

[summer fox]

two 250% producers are equal to five 100% producers right?

[little moon]

Should be

Have the same output at least

[oblique hollow]

yes

except for power demand

[tropic hawk]

For now...

[wind spade]

forever I hope

[median heath]

Casuals are going to win unfortunately.
They always do in gaming.

😭

[cinder silo]

Bah! 😦

Constant dumbing down does take the challenge out of games 🤢 🤮

[tropic hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/me-too-me-too-kid-incredibles-gif-19919940

[frosty owl]

Points at idea of making exponential power demand something for "late game" leaving lower clocks (<200?) linear, to appease both worlds

[median heath]

Peace was never an option.

[vapid gorge]

Just mod exponential overclocking back in 😛

[median heath]

That's why casuals win.

Because "mod it to be harder" is an easier argument than "mod it to be easier".

[vapid gorge]

Guess your only recourse is to chill with the hard core mod crowd

[fringe pawn]

I don't even think it's a big change. 63% more power required if you 250% clock everything.

16 burners instead of 10? So what? Which power tier even causes it to matter?

[vapid gorge]

until you make big turbofuel plants or nuclear it matters tbh. And it's 73% more power so overclocking everything is a cost.

[fringe pawn]

Are you giving no consideration to the time it takes to accumulate all the slugs? Doubling the power infrastructure on a larger build is nothing compared grinding hundreds of slugs.

Having basically exhausted the world's slugs when I built my factory, and then resorted to doggos, I would rather slugs gave more shards than power consumption be changed.

[vapid gorge]

both building more power and gathering slugs are time sinks shrug

[fringe pawn]

I don't feel strongly about it either way so I'm fine with no change

[late orchid]

Personally, I'd really just love a MK2 constructor/ assembler that is more expensive to build, but builds items 4x faster.

Maybe a MK2 refinery as well

Make them cost fused frames and turbomotors, but make them build faster. Consume more power, more expensive to make, but allows factories with smaller footprints

[tropic hawk]

When you realize that most people (from my experience) see the end game as full nuclear and maxed nodes rather than Phase 4 finish, you should already have big power plants...

[vapid gorge]

True but before then over clocking can be messy

[tropic hawk]

Meh. I'm a little biased because I earn my way on servers by building power infrastructure. But I say it should be, so you only touch it if you know what you are doing

[wind spade]

The problem with that is that cost is irrelevant, since we have infinite resources

[fringe pawn]

Enough people struggle to automate a significant quantity of turbo motors that I can see an argument for a sufficiently high cost presenting a decent barrier. Then once you've got that production online do you rebuild your factory with the newer machines?

[wind spade]

Also I think devs said no to mk2 machines

[fringe pawn]

I'd rather the machines we have get an overhaul on their models so that catwalk platforms are at heights that make sense, refineries can be placed next to each other so that the firing machinery doesn't clip, and so forth.

[oblique hollow]

No Mk 2 since:
"Mk 2 Machines would mean we would have to make them stand out, we cant just use the current models and slap Mk 2 on them. And by making mk 2 we also kinda replace our current machines, which we dont want"

Hence alt recipes and overclocking exist

[frosty owl]

Thus, OC higher than 250%

[median heath]

I would rather uninstall.

Also I have changed my stance on Fluid Cars after looking into it recently.

[vapid gorge]

Heresy

[median heath]

Math 🤷‍♂️

To clarify:

It is still better to just process on site and then ship products.
But if the person is adamant about shipping fluids, meh.

If you're using closed-loop where empty cans return on the same train, Freight and Fluid cars are equivalent.
If you're transporting empty cans back by Truck/Drone then Freight better.
If you're using open-loop and sinking cans, Freight better.

[vapid gorge]

I've had more flow rate issues from train buffers onwards than from feeding from under in pipe systems. Packaged fuel also seems to help with that

[median heath]

Indeed.
Again, the place most people use them ends up being equivalent. So neither method is better.

Many adjustments to make Freight clearly better though.

[vapid gorge]

Has anyone developed pretty standardized output from a fluid platform to solve flow rates from it?

Even trying different buffering styles I could not get absolutely consistent flow

Not even close tbh

[late orchid]

Fair enough. In that respect, what is the“steel screw” equivalent for wire? I use steel screw over steel rod/screw as I prefer having fewer buildings. I want to produce more assembly director systems, but not really feeling like making hundreds of wire constructors for automated wiring.

A lot of the alt recipes here seem to involve bringing in either rubber or Caterium, and don’t really seem like they’d reduce the belt work required.

[median heath]

Steel Screw doesn't reduce the amount of belts you need for transporting Screws either...

So other things wouldn't reduce the amount of belts you need to move the Wire.

[late orchid]

It’s less the belts and more the physical factory floor space and time spent belting up machines

[median heath]

Cat Wire is the simplest for mass production if you're looking for least amount of things involved.

[frosty owl]

Eh, imo oil is an easy example of a fluid that can be easier transported than processed on site.
Just like one may prefer moving 780 iron ore/min instead of 2 belts of ingots, moving 300 oil/min is easier than moving 900 plastic/min
Ofc, one could "just" move more higher tier items, but to make them many resources are needed, bringing us back to the beginning: bring the oil or bring stuff to the oil?

[median heath]

Which is all fair.

My point is that Fluid Cars are "fine". So I neither encourage or discourage them after reviewing.
Whereas previously I would argue against them.

I also don't think the need a buff either given their base equivalence to Freight ones in closed systems.

@late orchid trying to solve your Wire issue concerning ADS production.

Are you using the Autowire alt recipe?

[vapid gorge]

I mean if you want huge amounts of wire Fused Wire (cat + cop) produces mass quantities.

more space than Caterium Wire

[median heath]

I'm trying to determine where the massive need for Wire is even coming from.

Everything I'm looking at point to Cable in massive amounts. At which point you have multiple options for making it.

[vapid gorge]

Oh yeah Insulated Cable is ❤️

[median heath]

Purely Wire constraints only come if you're using the Autowire alt.

[median heath]

True. QW Cable is a personal favorite of mine 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

You know I'd never actually considered QW cable

That is a butt tonne of cable for so few base parts

[median heath]

Which Computer recipe do you mainly use?

[vapid gorge]

Caterium atm

[median heath]

That's probably why.

[vapid gorge]

I'm not crippled in lack of Cat but it's not super abundant for me yeah

[median heath]

I use Crystal.

And I'm absolutely swimming in extra Ct. So QW Cable makes sense to me. I was legit about to do 600 Stators/min out of QW Stator. That's how much extra Ct I have lying around.

[vapid gorge]

And there's just so much GD iron in the world it feels sinful to not use it for wire/cable

Iron is almost a free resource

[median heath]

True.

QW Cable is, as you said, cheap AF.

So that's why I am trying to figure out their Wire bottleneck.

[vapid gorge]

My overall plan for 315 HMF pm doesn't even use pure iron.

[vapid gorge]

I suspect they might be tunnel visioned by location

[median heath]

I don't think I use Pure Iron anywhere on my map atm.

[vapid gorge]

I do but purely to avoid additional logistics.

Easier to set some refineries on location than mess around with more trains

[median heath]

Technically it's more compact to ship ore than ingots if you're using Pure. 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

Oh yeah I mean when I put down hubs leeching resources off for a specific product and I'm throwing numbers around - if I find a prime location that I'm somewhat short of iron in convenient belt distance I'll just make it Pure Iron there rather than solve it by bringing in more distant iron

'oh this location is perfect but I'm 30% short of Smelted Iron. Guess I'll Pure some of it'

[median heath]

I feel your building methods would bother me were I to see your world. 😬

Given your small sample already causes 🇵 🇦 🇮 🇳

[vapid gorge]

A tore up everything and rebuilding from the ground up. So at the moment there isn't a HUGE amount there but the Uranium Rod factory that IS following this pattern XD

[vapid gorge]

I went through significant effort for a max rod factory that had almost everything within 500m of it's central point

significant

[median heath]

Steel Rod ftw

[vapid gorge]

If only I could make Ur Rods out of Steel rods, it's true

[median heath]

Bionuke Rods when?

[vapid gorge]

The Beans are secret organic nuclear reactors. It's why they bounce with extra force

[median heath]

Zero waste nuclear.
Tradeoff being you still have to go out and hand-collect the sources of biomass.
Which is a chore if you plan on using the rods with any longevity 😂

[vapid gorge]

That's so painful. Mod to automate the Bean creatures into a mulcher 😛

[median heath]

Mods 🤢

[oblique hollow]

Coated Cable is your boi then. that or insulated cable

[median heath]

Or QW... as said 😜

[oblique hollow]

meh, i prefer the other 2 because speed

[median heath]

Speed is a fun concept in this game, as has been spoken about multiple times 🙃

[oblique hollow]

i know

steel screw is isofar good that you can plop a constructor in front of a machine and reduce belt clutter

[median heath]

QW a relevant option in the specific scenario because the person wanted less Wire specifically.

[oblique hollow]

insulated is Steel screw equivalent

for cable

[median heath]

I'd take Insulated over Coated.

[oblique hollow]

while Caterium wire is the Steel screw of wire

[median heath]

For me, Insulated = QW > Coated

[oblique hollow]

so if you purely want compact speed, its cat wire + insulated cable

[median heath]

We have the same conclusions 🙃

Concerning Wire.

[oblique hollow]

the only benefit of Coated is you dont need to do a funny recycling setup, aka saving space again

at the cost of more oil

[median heath]

Which I'm still trying to figure out if Wire is the actual bottleneck for them, or if they meant Cable.
But they are on Do Not Disturb. So 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

Arguable. Steel screw is better imo (fused quickwire is just too good)

[oblique hollow]

steel screw is for screws

[median heath]

Wire only becomes a specific bottleneck if you use the Autowire alt and if you're using Super-State.

Neither of which I use 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Fused QW is great for QW.
Given scenario is about Wire.

[frosty owl]

Fused wire...

[oblique hollow]

ive decided to use coates cable for one of my early tier 6 factories on my newest save. i use base rubber recipe for adhered iron plate and the hor goes to coates

its a pretty neat combo

sure, bad oil efficiency, but small and i got oil to spare anyway

[wind spade]

oil is so cheap with oil tripling recipes

[tropic hawk]

True

[median heath]

Barf

[oblique hollow]

yes but we are talking bout coated cable

[median heath]

If I specifically need mass amounts of Wire I just use Ct.

[tropic hawk]

You may be about to lose your living privileges...

[median heath]

Over Fused Wire??

[oblique hollow]

fused QW is the only good QW alt.

[tropic hawk]

Read my name.

[frosty owl]

You an Admin? -.^

[oblique hollow]

.... because its the only alt

[median heath]

Fused Quickwire is God's gift to ADA.

[tropic hawk]

There is no god here, only FICSIT

[median heath]

Fused Wire is just...
No. I'd rather go straight to CatWire.

[tropic hawk]

Fused is more efficient

[median heath]

God works for FICSIT dummyhead.

[frosty owl]

||God has been Ficsed ||

[median heath]

He was the lead designer on Pocket Dimensions. Given his background in creating other dimensions 😉

[tropic hawk]

Gods presence only affects earth, we are on our own out here...

[frosty owl]

||Ficsit said: you have 7 days to make me a world full of people I can exploit, get to work ||

[tropic hawk]

Ah, so he also created the subspace bubble for train stations too?

[median heath]

And God said "3 years and I'll still be in Early Access, not quite sure on how I want to finish. Best I can do." 😉

[median heath]

Creating stuff is his entire jam, so yeah. 😂

[wind spade]

600 cable (all alt recipes) in order (from most weighted resource efficient to least): normal, insulated, quickwire, coated

[median heath]

QW Cable

[oblique hollow]

eeeew iron wire

[tropic hawk]

Wire... Not cable...

[oblique hollow]

we talking bout both now

cant make cable without wire

[median heath]

It's both at this point.
The person said Wire, but that seems self-inflicted because the main bottleneck is Cable.

[tropic hawk]

It is surprisingly efficient, only reason in not using it is because I don't want 10 full 780 belts of it...

[oblique hollow]

its efficient, yes, but i hate it anyway

[wind spade]

I'm talking about cable as there was mention of a cable recipe choice 🤷‍♂️

[cinder silo]

Iron wire solved a nuclear problem for me and ate up a bunch of unused impure iron nodes in the process so I wasn't going to moan about it.

[frosty owl]

It's disgustingly efficient (on resources)

[tropic hawk]

My bad, I came in halfway through the conversation

[median heath]

Can you do 600 Cable from Wire comparing Base, Iron, Fused, Cat?

[wind spade]

so just 600 wire?

[oblique hollow]

yus

[median heath]

Cable costs only 1 Wire?

[frosty owl]

1200, what needed for 600 cable

[tropic hawk]

Technically it's 1200.

[oblique hollow]

no wait

[median heath]

Ye 1200 Wire.

[wind spade]

no I mean... do you just want to compare wire recipes?

[tropic hawk]

Yes.

[wind spade]

bcs it doesn't matter what amount I set in, since it's about difference between them

or do you want all cable recipes with all wire recipes combinations 😄

[median heath]

No just the Wire ones. But to 1200 because my brain is being weird about it.

[tropic hawk]

I think this is what we are heading towards...

And I'm curious now about it too...

[median heath]

Because then it's comparable to check the 4 Wire recipes against the Cable ones you posted.

[wind spade]

1200 wire (all recipes), from most to least efficient: iron wire, normal wire, fused wire, cat wire

[tropic hawk]

Resource Efficacy I believe is the more correct term

[median heath]

That's why I just say Eff and let you pick which word you want 😉

[wind spade]

yeah it's the same as cable

[tropic hawk]

Also, why is coal in there?

[wind spade]

because I copy it from list of used resources

and it's ordered alphabetically 🤷‍♂️

[tropic hawk]

Ah.

[median heath]

QW and Insulated still the top choices.

Which makes sense.

[tropic hawk]

Use cases for each recipe:

• Save on important resources
• simplicity
• lowering total input
• you only have caterium.

[wind spade]

hang on, I'll make something 🙂

[median heath]

Cat vs Fused can be a matter of space saving as well. 🤷‍♂️

[full thorn]

Redid my oil facility to make it so much more efficient. 240/min plastic and rubber + 5000MW

[tropic hawk]

Oil input?

[median heath]

Oh those poor truncated clock speeds... 😭

[full thorn]

600 total

2 pure nodes

[median heath]

Oh nevermind, this isn't Recycled.

[full thorn]

yeah, its from crude straight to plastic & rubber, and from residue to fuel

200 residue from the rubber production, and 100 from the rubber. Just perfectly maxing the mk 1 pipe

[median heath]

Clean. But inefficient technically.

[tropic hawk]

This is a power plant build where byproducts are made into things. Not a factory that produces power (difference is at 5 MW/ipmin

[full thorn]

Ah alright

[tropic hawk]

Give him a break, he probably doesn't have the food alts

[median heath]

Pipes being jet black threw me for a bit.

[full thorn]

I have barely any alts lol

I haven't explored far

[median heath]

I'm not being insulting?
I'm being factual.

And giving props to the cleanliness.

[full thorn]

What would be more efficient?

[median heath]

I'M BEING NICE GOD DAMNIT @tropic hawk

[full thorn]

lmao

[median heath]

You need 3 alts to even worry about that.

HOR and both Recycled alts.

[tropic hawk]

Using HOR, diluted fuel, recycled rubber and recycled plastic

[full thorn]

ah, I got recycled plastic

[tropic hawk]

Diluted fuel?

[median heath]

Recycled Loop gives you Plastic/Rubber at 3:1 with oil.

But don't try to do a number like 240... plz..

[median heath]

Helpful. But DPF works just as well.
🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

360 is much better

[median heath]

No... 😭

[frosty owl]

720?

[tropic hawk]

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KILL IT WITH FIRE!

[median heath]

Are you completely forgetting the 45-81 rule?

[frosty owl]

I never used that I guess

[tropic hawk]

Can't this be simplified as 5-9?

[median heath]

Plastic and Rubber in 81's.
All machines automatically fall within the 4 decimal limit for clock speeds.

[median heath]

No, actually.

[tropic hawk]

My bad, didn't know this part

[earnest glen]

i know we talked about this subject yesterday... but i never had the need to apply this to achieve efficiency 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Rubber/Plastic in 81 means:
81
40.5
20.25
10.125

So 10.125 is the literal lowest multiple, but for larger setups using 81 is simpler.

5.625 is the literal lowest multiple for non-oil products, but again, 45 is simpler to work with for larger setups.

[median heath]

I can guarantee you that you setups work perfectly fine.
Efficiency is a different thing though.

A machine stalling out every millionth cycle is still not as efficient as one that never does.
What matters is your personal margin of error for what is "acceptable inefficiency".

[tropic hawk]

One of these days imma get everyone into a room to discuss how to do the most resource efficient full nuclear build...

[earnest glen]

efficiency = no idle time for me. That nice 💯 on machine is efficiency to me

[median heath]

Idle time will be there eventually if you have any machine with a truncated decimal.
It may be only 1 cycle every dozen hours, but it is still there.

[frosty owl]

I don't see the advantages in remembering such long numbers
At 360/min (or any multiple of 60 iirc) the number work out nicely imo.
I don't care much about having a "clean" input number for the oil or water though (since I always overflow on those)

[earnest glen]

ok i surrender then 😅

[median heath]

81 isn't a long number?
And most items don't work in multiples of 60.

That was the point of solving what they do work in.

[tropic hawk]

Sure they do. Just gotta go high enough.

[median heath]

Common high number doesn't mean 60 is the base multiple.

I.E. 60 and 45 have overlap if you go high enough.

[tropic hawk]

I was being sarcastic...

[frosty owl]

Isn't that quite known already?
Pretty much all alts for uranium processing, no alts for plutonium. Go Fertile if you don't mind less max power and want to save on some resources/machines

[median heath]

360 works fine because it does what Nemo was sarcastically eluding to.

It breaks down into both 60 and 45.

[frosty owl]

It's almost as if I put some thought into that

[tropic hawk]

And what about the parts for the things going into the uranium processing?

[median heath]

45 being the base thing that almost every recipe shares, 60 being what people want because belts.

60 and 45 overlap in multiples of 180.
So 180/360/720 are the cleanest multiples of 60 you're going to get.

[frosty owl]

"Pretty much all alts". The usual(?) stuff

[median heath]

Fair, but to me remembering why it works is important. Otherwise people will mistakenly think 60 is the multiple and not 45.

[tropic hawk]

Well time to do hours of research to figure out which ones actually match and how they would effect others (aluminum production for example producing silica and all the sulfuric acid and water loops and back feeds)

[median heath]

To your example of not knowing longer numbers, I don't remember the 5.625 off the top of my head, ever.

I remember 45 and just divide it by 2 to find smaller multiples.

[frosty owl]

360 just works well for me since it gives clean numbers for the plastic/rubber processing. Anything down the line is assumed to be overflowed/balanced and 360/720 are convenient numbers to work with in that regard. No thought given on ratios of the machines following
Edit: I forgot to add the reply, but you get the point @median heath

[tropic hawk]

Also, no idea what this is before today, can you give me a quick simplification?

[frosty owl]

I can offer a savefile with a relatively small production with some clean ratios you could reference if you'd like (most inputs-outputs and clocks are conveniently displayed on signs~)

[tropic hawk]

Honestly, I would rather prefer a statisfactory calculator link or a Google doc. Something where I don't have to be on my gaming PC to look through

[median heath]

As stated above, Oil works best in terms of 81 when using the Recycled Loop.

Game doesn't work in ppm, game works on cycle times with respect to clock speed.
Clock speed is limited to xx.xxxx format, so any time you would have a repeating decimal or one that is simply longer than 4 places, you're not getting the amount you think you are because the game truncates without rounding.

The rule was found when I was looking for terms to put final products in where all machines prior automatically fall within that 4 decimal limit, so you would have to worry about un-clean numbers.

Solved first was Oil. Where we learned that doing things in terms of 27 Oil input was the cleanest. And that equates to things in terms of 81 output for Plastic/Rubber. Finding the literal lowest multiple was easy after that, and it is 10.125 (but again, 81 is simple. Just knowing the actual lowest helps you solve things like "if I needed 100, it's cleaner to make 101.25")

Same logic applied to solving other items in the game. Initially I went looking for each item's individual number, but discovered that all but 3 recipes fall under 45 (guessing some dev intentionally did this).
Hence, 45-81 rule.
Exceptions: Caterium Circuit Board, Fine Concrete, Pure Iron.

[tropic hawk]

0_0

[lost jetty]

depednign on what recycle format

some tend to use crude oil recycle

[median heath]

CtCB is usually made in large enough volume that your sarcastic comment from earlier applies.
And no one should ever use Fine Concrete.

[lost jetty]

i use the fuel - residal mat - residal plastic/rubber

[median heath]

This isn't the Recycled Loop.

[lost jetty]

it is

[tropic hawk]

CtCB?

[median heath]

Caterium Circuit Board

[lost jetty]

s h e e s h

[tropic hawk]

So is this 81 plastic and 81 rubber, or a combination of plastic and rubber totaling 81?

[median heath]

It isn't. There is a reason I am capitalizing Recycled Loop.
It is a singular thing with singular design.

[tropic hawk]

Ah, ty

[median heath]

Each in terms of 81
Or you can do 40.5 of each.
Or you can do any combination in multiples of 10.125 as that is the true lowest multiple.

[tropic hawk]

1: it's called poly resin
2: why on earth are you using normal fuel?

[lost jetty]

cus i dont got nothin better for now :p

[median heath]

Because he's not doing the Recycled Loop.

[tropic hawk]

Thanks. What is the 45 in the rule?

[median heath]

Non-oil.
Did you even read the explanation??? 😭😭😭

[tropic hawk]

Nvm, didn't see last paragraph

[median heath]

People think HMFs are gross because 2.8125

45/2.8125 = 16
Clean AF

Same shit when you get into Oscillators.

[wind spade]

Wire, Quickwire and Cable recipes analysis

[median heath]

Oscillators is 1.875
45/1.875 = 24

If you follow the 45-81 rule the only place it gets complex is when you bringing Rubber and Plastic into a different recipe.
But if you are fine with just sinking or shipping the 3-5 extra R/P to storage then it's the simplest system with the least amount of headache because you set your final product by the rule and everything in the chain leading up to it automatically falls within clean clock speed margins.

Except miners... but not many care.

That's the cruel devs at work, lol.
Miners work in 60s, items work in 45s, belts again work in 60s.

So unless you convert to doing everything in terms of 180, you'll never have it "perfect" @tropic hawk

[frosty owl]

Working on it...

This is what I think is the meta for nuclear (not fertile uranium, minimum plutonium) https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=xLgbihhqVt3e1t53GqLz

[tropic hawk]

Interesting... Do you know if this could scale up to 50.8 UFR/min?

[frosty owl]

Btw, are you gonna include water extractors here, @wind spade ?

[wind spade]

can't really, there's water fracking 😛

[frosty owl]

Yep, literally copy-paste 6 times
That's 300 Uranium/min (x7 it's 2100)

[wind spade]

otherwise I would already do it

[frosty owl]

Just use water extractors?

[tropic hawk]

Now time to do that, then fiddle with buildings so I can use my remote throttlability teqnique

[wind spade]

I mean I would have to give the player a choice between extractors and fracking (and how many nodes available, etc.)

[frosty owl]

I think just extractors would be plenty. Fracking can go frack itself

[tropic hawk]

And lets be honest: almost no one uses fracking for water anyway

[wind spade]

I mean yeah but I still feel like it's limiting the few people that use it 🤷‍♂️

[tropic hawk]

Not any more than they already are. This would make it easier for the many

[wary pebble]

greeny just doesnt want the calculator to do all of the thinking for us 😂

[wind spade]

I guess that's a fair point 🤷‍♂️ I'll think about how I can add that (as it's not as easy as it seems)

[tropic hawk]

I know. Thank you.

[frosty owl]

So F the fracking users for losing a feature they don't have

[median heath]

Will be much more feasible if the casuals win and OCing becomes linear tbh.

[tropic hawk]

Shameful speech.

[clever bay]

I really wish there was a save file that was just. "Here's all the nodes tapped, ingotted and a global train network connecting them."

just a baseline to get started, tapping and bussing all these nodes is so tedious....

[oblique hollow]

thats cause thats an incredibly nieche way to handle ores, that global train network

you shouldnt have to adhere to a train network, train networks should adhere to you

[wind spade]

that would be horrible. I usually build factories around nodes that produce final product. Also, what ingot recipe to use? 😛

[tropic hawk]

Now the question for a train highway for the world... Should it be a grid or a hex?

[wind spade]

octagons ofc

[tropic hawk]

Those don't tessalate.

[wind spade]

they do if combined with squares 😛

[tropic hawk]

Why would it be better than just squares then?

[wind spade]

also noone said that they would be all the same 🙂

[tropic hawk]

Do you actually have reasons or are you just spit-balling?

[wind spade]

I hate train grids, so I'm just making fun 🤷‍♂️

[tropic hawk]

Where does this hatred stem from?

Someone who believes in global train networks then, can you tell me the most efficient shape or combination thereof?

[tropic hawk]

@devout dawn read this

[median heath]

This assumes people do global logistics in 1 way...
Which is not even close to true.

[tropic hawk]

Fair, but this is a common thought process from new people on how to do logistics.

[median heath]

It's... wrong though?

Global train networks are often inefficient by nature.

[tropic hawk]

They weren't asking for efficient, they were asking for functional.

[wind spade]

you can have both though

[tropic hawk]

I figured by doing it, it would end quite a few misconceptions.

[median heath]

Global Belt Network is just as functional. 🙃

[tropic hawk]

I'm not making that before you ask. I am many things, but insane is not one.

[median heath]

Don't make a global train save file, that's what I would ask of you.

[clever bay]

pure copper/iron/caterium ingot's duhhhhhh. Let's you maximize your output PER SATISFACTORYTOOLS.COM/PRODUCTION boom

oh also sidenote @wind spade how can I log a bug with your tool?

[median heath]

Imagine using "duhhhh" considering how often pure copper isn't used and knowing that iron alloy has a higher return than pure iron

[clever bay]

not when you're doing a max points build. I need all of the copper and iron separately, not just all the iron

[tropic hawk]

Use the tools discord, under bug report

[clever bay]

ty

[wind spade]

what about copper/iron alloy though

[versed violet]

Did anyone actually manage to tap and use all the nodes on the map?

[clever bay]

I need all of the copper and iron separately for the 4 endgame space elevator items

[clever bay]

I'm working on it........dune desert is killing me

[wind spade]

no, it kills pcs 😄

or rather... not "tap and use" properly. You can put a sink in front of every miner and call it a day

[clever bay]

I haven't run into trouble yet.....but I'm far from being done....

[versed violet]

Thats my MVP. anyone did that either?

[wind spade]

you will. Maxed map is pretty much impossible to run

[clever bay]

you know this means I'm going to have to prove you wrong right? I'll find a way. PLUS it can't be THAT bad.... you smelt into ingots on site then bus all the nodes to a train station for each biome then run the trains till you have 780 output on each belt. Then you just produce the items at a factory for each endgame thing.....I'm almost done with nuclear pasta, just gotta build all that damn copper powder

[wind spade]

you know there's a lot of people that attempted this and have factories that run at 5 FPS and not yet maxed map?

[clever bay]

where? I've tried searching youtube and haven't run into much. TotalXclipse had a 100 nuclear pasta save he went through but that's it

[wind spade]

also please don't use the word bus for "stack of belts" 😛

[clever bay]

lol you tell me the difference!

but yea I'm at.......17? iron belts....it's a lot

for just dune desert

[wind spade]

I'm bad ad remembering names, but iirc KoS had U3 maxed base which had pretty bad framerate, U4 max is like 4 times as much buildings

[clever bay]

well, I'm power sharding everything except for power (only cause I read that stuff gets weird)

[wind spade]

iirc she had done that as well

[clever bay]

....well that's not good

[wind spade]

like unless you have a super beefy computer, you'll most likely run into same issues most people here have

and those will be either performance issues or object limit issues or most likely both

you're ofc free to try it 🤷‍♂️

just giving you a fair warning based on experience of people here

[oblique hollow]

Klepdar save lul

[clever bay]

wellp, one thing at a time then. Almost done with dune desert and nuclear pasta, once that's hooked up I'll move on to the next problem

[oblique hollow]

max everything means max limestone, aka max concrete, which.... has no use, practically

[clever bay]

and max nitrogen

which you actually can't do anything with by itself lol

[wind spade]

max nitrogen is "impossible"

[clever bay]

exactly

hence why it's "max points" and not "max resources"

[oblique hollow]

max nitric acid > ??? > profit

[wind spade]

well the point is that if you're maxing points, you're left with nitrogen that's useless

[clever bay]

right

[clever bay]

can't sink just the acid, gotta package it

[wind spade]

because if you use all nitrogen, you just make something that's less valuable than what you make without nitrogen (or with less nitrogen)

[oblique hollow]

nitrogen recipes are all not as great?

huh

[clever bay]

eh it's a new resource, maybe they'll do something with it

[oblique hollow]

oh wow only 2/3 of all nitrogen for max points

[clever bay]

yep, so far I think it's just nitric acid for heavy fused frames.......wait no crap what's it

[clever bay]

no I was right, heat fused frame

[clever bay]

I think the big issue is just going to be train logisitcs.....I've already optimized a lot of my interchanges but yea, pasta alone has like 16 stations in it

[wind spade]

make stuff near nodes 🤔

[clever bay]

i make the ingots......WAIT

are thebiomes optimized to let you make a space part in each one?

no.....it can't.......

no cause pasta takes like 31k copper

[wind spade]

you can most likely place factories in decent places where all they need is around them and then move intermediate products to different factories

[clever bay]

that was a thought too, I already have an oil facility making rubber, plastic, fuel and the rest is turbo fuel to burn off

[wind spade]

I don't have nuclear pasta in my max build 🤔

[clever bay]

but i debated about making intermediate facilities for stuff like heavy modular frames/encased industrial beams

the math, logisitcs and planning got too complicated

[wind spade]

how many points/min is your max making?

[clever bay]

according to a reddit thread this was the max points https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=hwoAw5JnZfwj8DqgQbd2

[wind spade]

I got 179,447,000

[clever bay]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JNpgNuoZthKWsG0j1tokPvST0lHlPmzG-b-b0Orcqqk/edit

[wind spade]

this is max

[clever bay]

https://www.reddit.com/r/satisfactory/comments/ph878m/i_have_calculated_theoretical_maximum_of_coupon/

[wind spade]

it's more than what they have, so 🤷‍♂️