math-and-meta

[minor hawk]

I think there's a mod for that but it would be cool in vanilla

[wind spade]

you can just build more splitters 🤷‍♂️

[minor hawk]

You can't evenly split into 7

[wind spade]

you don't need to

[minor hawk]

Or maybe you can with some sheaningas that I'm not aware of

[wind spade]

and yeah you can

split to 8, merge one to start

or just

--S--S--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X  X  X

[vapid gorge]

Basically what greeny is showing you is a 'manifold'. The other main way to split items is 'load balancing'

Both of them fill things evenly it's just that manifolds have spin up times.

[wind spade]

both are equally good, just manifold is a little bit gooder

[vapid gorge]

@wheat delta - Greeny made a quick diagram of a manifold just above - the s are splitters and the x are the destination (machines usually)

[snow dove]

You can also mess with the clock percents to get it so you divide into nicer numbers.

That’s my preferred method

As i’m fine with adding a few more machines

[vapid gorge]

You mean as part of a load balance? Or do you just mean each machine on a manifold accepting the same number?

[snow dove]

Like instead of 7 100% machines you have like 9 78% or so

[snow dove]

Works better depending on the numbers

[vapid gorge]

ah yeah that's fair, though I think as long as the input output equalize the only difference once it events out is visual.

[timber flare]

Im one of those weirdoes who nerver underclock XD

Only place i consider it is water extracors

[vapid gorge]

really? I almost always overclock the bastards. I hate having them around

[timber flare]

Well most of the time 5 100% water extracors is 600 so...

[vapid gorge]

OR 2x extractors at 250% is 600

[timber flare]

I have way to many extractors going for that

[vapid gorge]

Then I have to look at fewer of them

[vapid gorge]

There's 1400 power cores available 😄

[timber flare]

Dont have the shards

[vapid gorge]

Personally I'm using a mod that has a big extractor that at 250% does 3000 water pm. It's like 2500 mw but worth it

[timber flare]

5 outputs then ?

[vapid gorge]

yeah. Looking at it it's like .. .25% more power in terms of water unit? But I don't have fields of extractors so I'm happy

more than happy to pay power to not have ugly fields of them

[timber flare]

Ye.. my extactors cover as much as my power plants

[vapid gorge]

yuuuup. Before I started using that mod I was making the water extractors a 'basement' under stations over water. But it got a bit boring

[timber flare]

I did an oopsie. I ended up making twice the Rplates that i needed tyo for my giant project. For some reason

255plates/m when i only needed 125

No idea how i failed that hard but it happened and im not tearing it down now. It will just stall and that is fine

[summer fox]

i`ve got 1200 polymer resin how do i divide it so i can get equal rubber and plastic ? as the ratio is different for both of them

[wind spade]

why do you want to make them out of polymer resin? 🤔

[summer fox]

its a by product from heavy oil for a fuel power factory

[timber flare]

Do you have recyled recipies

Rubber + fuel -> plastic

And vice versa

[summer fox]

yes but i dont want to use them as i have already sorted all the fuel into turbo fuel

[timber flare]

Ah fair

[summer fox]

so i need to balance it on reciepe i think it equal out to making about 300 of each

[timber flare]

If you are good with making some extra fuel for platsic production i would recomend that if not then its 4:6 ratio

[summer fox]

as doing it 600/600 means i get 200 plastic and 400 rubber so if i want to balance it out i think it would be 300 of each

[ebon crater]

oh haha you're probably using the 1800 crude oil from gold coast like i am. since the ratio is 60:40, its 100 for each set of 20 plastic and 20 rubber, so you can make 20*12, an 20*12(12*100 is 1200), so 720 for plastic, 480 for rubber

[wispy hamlet]

uh this seems like a channel for smart people who know what 16 + 3 is

I don't so I'll leave

[wind spade]

I'd suggest keeping the polymer resin and making plastic+rubber on demand

[timber flare]

That wont be possible as plasic is more expencive than rubber

[wind spade]

rather than making them in some ratio that most likely won't be the correct one

[ebon crater]

you can balance it out to 240 of each... i explained the math... idk why yall still trying to explain that its not possible/ratio wont be correct

[timber flare]

To get equal you need to use 720 for plastic and 480 for rubber

Yes

[ebon crater]

yes, i already said that....

[timber flare]

ye imma be honest my mind tldr'd that

[ebon crater]

oh

[summer fox]

when you consider the reciepe usage as plastic is used more then rubber does that change anything like should i make more plastic?

[timber flare]

Why

[ebon crater]

if you want to make the same mmount of rubber and plastic(240 of each), you need 720 polymer for plastic, 480 for rubber

[wind spade]

that really really depends on what recipes you use. If you use some alt recipes, you can use 90% rubber and 10% plastic or vice versa. That's why I suggest not guessing the ratio now but rather waiting until you know what you need

[ebon crater]

if you want more plastic, make more plastic... not sure what to tell you

[timber flare]

Eiter that or make a recycle feedback loop. Main reason i love it

[ebon crater]

why would you not make the plastic with the resin...?

you only use fuel if you dont have enough resin

[ebon crater]

if theyre looking for the same ammount of plastic and rubber, they arent guessing a ratio. its a 60:40 ratio that gives 720 for 240 plastic, and 480 for 240 plastic...

[timber flare]

I dont make plastic with resin i only make rubber. Then i make plastic with fuel and rubber

[ebon crater]

oh okay, smart

[wind spade]

they are guessing that they will need 50% rubber and 50% plastic, which is my point

[ebon crater]

right but if they said that they are making the plastics from the byproducts of a fuel plant, it seems intuitive that they arent realy using the plastics for further factories

[wind spade]

if they weren't using it for anything, they would be sinking it and for that it's better to just convert all to rubber

[cedar mica]

If you setup the recycle loop, so its both making and using both, you can just extract what you need from it. Instead of just making 1000 plastic, you can extract 300 rubber and 700 plastic or whatever you end up needing

[ebon crater]

yeah, but if its for a fuel plant you wana use the least fuel possible, so its not really usefull unless you need tons of rubber for another factory or somthin

[ebon crater]

true, true

[cedar mica]

With diluted fuel, so do you double the heavy oil, while the polymer is ether cut in half or in 3rd when converting. So you end up using about 1/4th of the fuel produced for the plastic and rubber.

[ebon crater]

out of the 1200 polymer resin they making, we can assume they are making 4800 fuel, yeah.

so yeah that makes sense, but its still fuel you loose, and so power gon

[cedar mica]

Fun fact, you dont need to have an input for the recycle loop, other then fuel. Just need to seed it with a stack of plastic/rubber and it will sort it self out, with time

[ebon crater]

yeah, its cool

[ashen mantle]

Is a rubber loop more efficient than a traditional rubber factory with single duplication?

Ie it's only recycled once

[wind spade]

yeah you need to have the loop to reach peak efficiency

[ashen mantle]

Even with diluted fuel recipes and recycling the residue from initial production?

[wind spade]

best resource efficiency is oil -> alt HOR -> diluted fuel -> recycled rubber/plastic loop + byproduct polymer resin -> residual rubber

[oblique hollow]

everything else is below that in efficiency

[frosty owl]

Just to clarify: you don't recycle more than once
Ie: all fuel will be processed in a single production step, not multiple ones

You can't "recycle fuel again"

[ashen mantle]

Well yes, but the actual rubber/plastic is being recycled

Over and over

Verus Oil > Plastic > Diluted fuel > Recycled Rubber

Which I can see how it's less efficient than a loop

But what about Oil > Rubber > Diluted fuel > 1.5 recycle phases, since you get 2 fuel for every rubber

So 120 oil/min gets you 80 rubber/min and 160 fuel/min, so 200 rubber/min

[wind spade]

120 oil can give you 360 rubber

with the loop + residual rubber

[ashen mantle]

Okay

I think I got that

I'm gonna try it out on my world then, since I was just about to build a petrochem plant

I take it the output of the refineries is fed back into the other loop with an overflow splitter for the actual output?

And you get two conveyors, one of rubber, one of plastic

[wind spade]

yeah, priority split things into the loop, overflow to storage/other production lines

[ebon crater]

does anyone have a list of the alternate recipes needed to make the 50.4 fuel rods/min? is it just infused uranium cell and uranium fuel unit? those are the only two that seem affected by the ammount of uranium

[frosty owl]

Normally, when one says they make plastic/rubber with a loop, that implies:
Oil -> H.O.R. + Resyn
Resyn -> Rubber
H.O.R. -> Fuel
Fuel + Rubber -> Plastic
Fuel + Plastic -> Rubber
And just balance the last 2 steps for the numbers one have

[ebon crater]

usually HOR + water but ig thats implied

[frosty owl]

Just need both alts for the uranium processing steps: Cells-making and Rods-making

[ebon crater]

alright cool

i really wana make 50.4/min, but dreading the requirements. but for some reason it seems really easy to make uranium, hard to process it

[wind spade]

any others just save other resources (which depends on whether or not do you want to do that)

[frosty owl]

The meta for plutonium (least bauxite usage and plutonium produced per-waste) uses just standard recipes btw

[ebon crater]

ahh ok

[frosty owl]

It's really not that hard so long as you don't try to make things complicated ahah
||Btw, I got a nuclear factory I'm currently showing off for feedback if you'd like to tour for inspiration||

[ebon crater]

its the stupid encased plutonium to plutonium rod for sinking that i hate

[frosty owl]

Why?

[ebon crater]

im nowhere near making nuclear. got a 60GW oil plant/factory to build, then bauxite.

but it would be cool to see

[frosty owl]

Uranium Rods manufacturing is more complex imo, since it wants oscillators

[ebon crater]

pressure cubes ):

[frosty owl]

That's if you use the alt. Higher bauxite usage and more plutonium than the standard recipe

[frosty owl]

Feel free to send a friend request+DM if interested~ 😁

[ebon crater]

oh wait i forgot you said that haha

yeah, will do. i need serious help wit the design side. the maths side, i think im ok at it, given enough time

[ebon crater]

oscillators are fine with the alternate recipe. considering heat sinks also need a bit of rubber for the better recipe, and a few other bits and bobs around(high speed connectors), i think itl be ok... im just baffled by the ammount of difrent items needed. uranium, bauxite, steel, oil, limestone, caterium, quartz, sulphur, copper, iron, water... it needs it all

it uses everyhing but SAM and nitrogen

[frosty owl]

Yep. Which makes it a great example if one were to, let's say, try out some crazy beltworks to prove they work as intended~ 😁

[frosty owl]

Nitrogen is needed for plutonium 😉

[ebon crater]

aw hell, nitric acid, forgor💀

[frosty owl]

Funfact: the byproduct water from Non-Fissile Uranium can theorically make a closed loop with input water for the Sulphuric Acid needed to make NFU

[ebon crater]

oh cool

[frosty owl]

Funfact 2: Uranium processing takes exactly as much silica as Plutonium processing

I've spammed enough 😆

[ebon crater]

those are usefull tips though, thx

[timber flare]

I dont use the alt for controll rods so i spammed AI limiters instead of high speed connectors

[ebon crater]

i hate high speed connectors

plus its a worse alt overall. just uses less steel for the addition of oil

plus it uses way more caterium

unless you use silica CB or somthn

and the silica alt for HSC

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it’s why I’m not setting up nuclear power until I have a solid bauxite factory.

[ebon crater]

im doing bauxite as soon as i go from having 12GW to arround 70GW

i think im going to build the bauxite factory for max belt speeds using smart splitter manifolds(i usually use these) so that when i get mk3 miners i never have to touch bauxite again

although i might do what i've been doing all along and its make the bauxite on site for nuclear.

[vapid gorge]

Careful with the closed loop Sulfur though, since there’s buffer loss in fluid on load it might cause issues. You’ll want to make a small amount more of acid and maybe make it a priority pipe

[vapid gorge]

I’d just make a small bauxite factory from one node, quick and dirty, unlock everything, then make your real one with effort 🙂

[oblique hollow]

closed loop sulfur?
ooooh somebody using instant scrap? 👀

[vapid gorge]

No one summoned you! Back!

[oblique hollow]

huehuehuehue

[ebon crater]

probably what i will do, like with oil

[vapid gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/i-rebuke-you-devil-devil-satan-go-away-get-away-gif-9937277

[oblique hollow]

the power of instant scrap compels you

[vapid gorge]

Also we were talking about the 6 water from non fissile matching I’m the input 6 fluids.

[oblique hollow]

ah that

[stark bronze]

Is it just me or it is easier to make electronics faster than frames

[vapid gorge]

regular modular frames? I think some of the circuit board recipes are maybe a bit simpler and faster

But you tend to need more of them too

[vapid gorge]

and the base Heavy Modular Frame recipe is a real resource sucker

[stark bronze]

Even with encased frame it's still a hassle to make over 20
Steel demand just go off the charts

I am replanning electronics but from last time it's pretty easy to balance 30 of each

[vapid gorge]

which stage of electronics? Computers or circuit boards? Because I'm needing to make 400 computers but I'm makign like 5000 cb a min
Making fewer than 400 heavy mod frames

[stark bronze]

Haven't gotten to supercomputers yet but 30 of everything else seem practical
Maybe frames are not that daunting either I just haven't gotten a good sense of quantity

[vapid gorge]

Its pretty difficult if you don't have a final plan yeah :\

[stark bronze]

Considering the amount you are making Im probably miles away from the resource limit anyway

[vapid gorge]

You also dont NEED to hit the resource limit. Decide what's fun for you 🙂

I'm weird. Don't have me as an example for your standards XD

[stark bronze]

Well I did try to match the ratio of each resources limit so if I want to go there one day I don't need to change recipes and do new math
Playing Satisfactory is just being weird in different ways

[rotund needle]

This recipe makes my life hurt

[vapid gorge]

That is the game yes XD

[vapid gorge]

Yeah I prefer this alt

[rotund needle]

Ummm yes please

It’s the screws man… I set up my circuit boards right beside my HMF manufacturing and went “shit… what have I done”

Gonna need to pipe in stuff from the ole’ reserves

But I’m also the guy pumping coke into coal generators when I’ve got 8 refineries generating fuel 😅 what do I know

[crimson pasture]

would be a nice recipe, but #maths 33.75 20.625 9.375 7.5 2.8125

[vapid gorge]

You can always change the clock speed 🙂

[crimson pasture]

doubt it could get better, specially for ingredients

[timber flare]

Im doing my full nuclear setup with less than 40GW Also yes doing crystal ocilators is hell

^me still working on the beacon automation

[ebon crater]

I mean... its only 40/min(ish) for max rods.... im making 30/min in my oil setup

[vapid gorge]

Insulated Oscilators?

The insulated recipe is almost half the quartz and makes it a bit simpler to put a good spot down.

[ebon crater]

i always do insulated

[timber flare]

Dont have XD

[vapid gorge]

Very worthwhile to find if you haven't gone too far into it already

[ebon crater]

oh lord

[timber flare]

That right there is 2 full belts of quarts being sent into those XD

Well to late now XD

[vapid gorge]

I mean... nothing stops a redesign?

[timber flare]

Maybe later

Imma do the nukes first XD

[vapid gorge]

ehhhhh, unless you're making your ur rod factory modular, like all the 2nd to last components and the nshipping them it's a bit annoying expanding it later

[timber flare]

Im doing exactly that so im all good

[vapid gorge]

Ah fair

[timber flare]

#math-and-meta message

a pic of my current setup

All the components are being sent there.

My current project is that times 6

[timber flare]

All im missing now is sulphur sulphiric acid and nitric acid

And heatsinks

[vapid gorge]

go go go 😄

[timber flare]

I already have the things for the sinks trained into my plant construction zone. However 1800 sulphur and 720 acid is no joke

[timber flare]

My kinda sprawly build. Im planning on building the big plant in the SW

[vapid gorge]

There’s enough n gas nearby to pump but I think only 1380 Sulfur in the swamp

There’s … no spot? That has 1800 Sulfur. I think. It’s one of the reasons I placed the rod factory on the central part of the map you posted. Had everything minus 1 node Sulfur and the UR. Both of which is getting droned

[timber flare]

Im probably making a big train line to the dune dessert to get the sulphur. there are 3 pure nodes there

Yes im counting the march one with that

[vapid gorge]

Ah that’s def swamp Sulfur for me XD

Funnily I don’t think my big plan includes those three Sulfur nodes

Oh wait the swamp pure might be going to batteries

[gleaming breach]

How do you guys make this maps?

[vapid gorge]

satisfactory-calculator website. You can load your saves

[timber flare]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

I have it bookmarked XD

[gleaming breach]

ah cool

But not gonna take a long look on this now

dont wanna spoiler me the actual size etc 😄

[vapid gorge]

That's a fair call 😄 I don't think I used it until I unlocked all the tiers a couple times and had basically sprinted everywhere a couple times. Super useful for planning later though.

[timber flare]

We all play differently that is what is so beautifull about this game

[gleaming breach]

how often did you restart your world? 😄

[timber flare]

Dont know about him but i ran 3 worlds up to pertrochemicals before i started my current one

24-30h

Current one at 140+ ?

[vapid gorge]

I think it was more around whta tiers I restarted ? I think it was like tiers 5-7, 3 or 4 times all up? Maybe 5 times

[gleaming breach]

hm okey

[timber flare]

Its kind of a learning process

[gleaming breach]

ye I started new and try to organize everything well now

But probably at somepoint I will be pissed again and restart XD

[vapid gorge]

For me it was looking back on all the stuff I had made, realising it was all garbage cause I learned a bunch then restarted.

[timber flare]

Ye try. and then restrart untill you get to a stage where you learn what kind of disorginization you are okay with

[vapid gorge]

I think my most recent world I started building big enough manifolds to handle the eventual 780pm from miners from the very start when I was only pulling 120pm

Then I just upgraded belts and miners as needed

But other people don't like restarting? To each their own

And 'hrs on map' start being meaningless after you unlocked everything. After that it's just ... building XD

[gleaming breach]

whatever this means XD

Im 20-30hrs into the game so idk most of the terms yet xd

[timber flare]

ye i getchu. Last 100 hours i have just been building nuclear power despite not needing it. I already had a fuel plant doing 40GW and even when almost done with that im not even draining that much

[vapid gorge]

oh so the begining miners on nodes you can pull like 60-120 parts per minute right?

When you overclock mk3 miners on pure nodes you can pull 780 parts per minute. So from the start I build enough smelters and constructors on a node that could handle mining 780

[timber flare]

Basicly when someone at endgame see a medium node they dont think 60units/m They think 600

[gleaming breach]

ah

[vapid gorge]

So why build for 60 when I'll need 600 soon enough?

[gleaming breach]

fuck so I started shit since im @ pure nodes in northen forest

[vapid gorge]

north forest is great. What's wrong with that?

[gleaming breach]

bcs of the strong pure nodes ;D

[wind spade]

also you ideally want to have factories all over the map, not just in one place

[gleaming breach]

pure node sounds lik endgame

[vapid gorge]

Just makes it easier and use less power used. And they don't run out so it's fine

[gleaming breach]

other nodes can run out :O?

[vapid gorge]

Only SAM nodes and those are story elements not used yet

All actual nodes are infinite

it's technically not infinite resources but only because it's limited in parts per minute rather than 'you'll run out eventually'

[oblique hollow]

finite nodes, infinite node items

[vapid gorge]

Yeah, the game is more about planning and logistics rather than worrying about having 0 items eventually

[hazy saffron]

Meanwhile I'm still working on what was my original world

Technically my second one but I don't consider the first one because it was about 5 minutes so I know what to expect when setting up multiplayer with then-gf

[vapid gorge]

Not everyone likes restarts. I can how it doesn't apeal to redo the tiers

[timber flare]

I dont mind redoing tiers

I mind redoing harddrives

If im ever starting a new game instead of modding it im just force unlocking all the alts

[hazy saffron]

I did start a new save twice, one with other friends but stopped playing with them and one to do solo to see if restarting has appeal

I determined that I much prefer tearing everything down and rebuilding it than starting over completely

[carmine wigeon]

Hello! I have more questions about calculators if anyone has any advice. Currently using sftools and facing the issue that it will give % production values to factories that are not possible to achieve. As such I have manually calculated a slight over % production on each of my factory chains so that none will starve. This will work fine for all the setups with an overflow splitter to take care of the extra. However, my brain is melted trying to figure out the heavy oil > fuel > recycled plastic > recycled rubber > petroleum coke and how to make it balance without backing up, while using % production values in the factories that are actually realistic

Currently, if I use the values provided on sftools it will either slightly under-produce between some factories and starve (causing production issues down the line), or it will have overflow of heavy oil, which affects the polymer resin production, which affects residual rubber, which also causes issues down the line

I feel like there must be some way to forcibly over-produce and sink polymer resin to take care of occasional heavy oil backups but for the life of me my brain refuses to make it work

[timber flare]

Simply make a smart splitter after you HOR plants that sinks ALL the overflow

[carmine wigeon]

But HoR is going into fuel blenders, which go into recycled rubber/plastic loops

[timber flare]

Yes but sink the poly

[carmine wigeon]

But I need the poly for residual rubber as part of my setup, I don't want to waste it

I don't mind sinking a buffer amount to make the rest work

[timber flare]

you are wasting it if you are not allowing it to flow to make more HOR

[carmine wigeon]

Poly isn't the issue, it will be used and/or overflow sinked

The issue is HoR backing up and impacting the poly

[timber flare]

Ah you could just make an oversized fuel plant a bit away

So that any overflow fuel goes there

And if HOR is backing up you need more blenders

[carmine wigeon]

Well, I could, but it would really screw the design/neatness/layout of my factory

It would only back up by tiny amounts, like 0.1 per minute, but that will eventually cause issues

[timber flare]

no?

If it doues it will just shut down for like 10s

[carmine wigeon]

Yes, which means I'm getting less poly > less rubber > my factory starves (even if for seconds)

I am hoping for a maths way to balance the production correctly so I just need to sink tiny amounts of poly/plastic/rubber to keep it all flowing

[timber flare]

How much crude yo u pumping in ?

[carmine wigeon]

up to 675 theoretically but my current plan shows 665.133 usage

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=XqMoFL8kpyFpbF4YVHje

[timber flare]

why make coke ?

[carmine wigeon]

I need it for alumina electrode scrap thingie

[timber flare]

Is tis chart balanced for having 510 rubber output ?

[carmine wigeon]

The production outputs are all what I'll need for the rest of my factory, yep

I know how much plastic, rubber, coke and fuel I need, and how much crude I have available. So I popped all that in

But if you look at the clock speeds the plan is proposing they're impossible

[timber flare]

Id rather be overporducing when possible. How many pumps are you u connecting

As in how much crude

[carmine wigeon]

675 will come in via train

[timber flare]

thats an odd number

how come ?

[carmine wigeon]

2 normal nodes and 1 impure well

[timber flare]

Ah no OC

[carmine wigeon]

at 3 shards each

[timber flare]

Thats 750

not 675

[carmine wigeon]

Normal nodes are 300 @ 250%

Impure wells are 75 @ 250%

[timber flare]

no 150

[carmine wigeon]

From the wiki

[timber flare]

750 crude will give you 1k HOR and 500 poly id conunt from that

[timber flare]

I think that says 150 XD

[carmine wigeon]

Yeah that's an impure node

I said normal node, and impure well

[timber flare]

Well huh never worked with those

Forgot they were a thing

[carmine wigeon]

I have 675 available, which should be enough to over-produce stuff slightly to sink and not back-up HOR. I just don't know what to set my factories to in order to balance the plastic/rubber output

[timber flare]

675*(4/3)=HOR

900 HOR

Oh thats wrong

675*(2/3) =poly

450 poly

Count based on that

then send 600 to fuel and 300 to petroleum

[carmine wigeon]

Yep, 450 Poly, 900 HOR. I need 268.399 HOR for coke, so that leaves 631.001 HOR for getting 225 fuel, 736.6 plastic, and 510 rubber. I know it's enough. But again I don't know how to set factories to prevent backups

[timber flare]

I guess you would set it so the HOR prioritized your petroleum coke refs then have the rest sent to a larger than strictly necessary blender setup to be fuel. Said fuel would then be set to your things that need the actuall fuel with the overflow sent to recylced refineries. and the overflow above that to fuel powerplants or bottled and sent somewhere else.

My point is. To prevent a HOR backup risk a fuel backup

But fuel backup is easier to deal with

[carmine wigeon]

Yeah, overflowing the fuel is possible I suppose, I'll just need to see how to do it neatly

It's part of a large factory with a lot of stuff pre-planned but I'll see what I can figure out

[timber flare]

Add like 15 blenders fully saturated with water

And you will be fine

[carmine wigeon]

Thanks for looking at it! 🙂

[timber flare]

Hey @vapid gorge you know drones. How many would i have to run to Drone in all the sulphur and uranium to the west coast of the map. And how much battery production would that need?

[wind spade]

depends how far are you transferring and how much

easiest is to build the drone ports and check how much you need

[ebon crater]

is instant scrap worth it?

[timber flare]

3 far east sulphur points and all of it to west coast just north of the oil fields

[wind spade]

yeah that doesn't really help 😄

[timber flare]

Across the entire map and aiming for 2340s/m

As in ALL of it

[ebon crater]

seems like it just adds sulphur to remove an extra step, the final conversion rates are the same, either 800(ingots) for 600(bauxite), or 600 for 600

[hazy saffron]

yes, it definitely is worth it

[ebon crater]

but- it adds sulphur just for removing one refining step

[hazy saffron]

the water output and the sulfuric acid production are perfectly in-tune

[ebon crater]

i did notice that, yeah.
still not for me i dont think

[hazy saffron]

and vs the regular recipe it's got a better output

[ebon crater]

nah its the same overall

you produce 800 ingots from 600 bauxite using the default scrap--> alluminum recipe

[hazy saffron]

i think you're missing something here

ingots can be ignored as all aluminum refinement paths go through scrap

the default recipe turns 100 bauxite into 150 scrap
instant scrap turns 100 bauxite into 200 scrap

normal alumina + Electrode turns 100 bauxite into 167 scrap

[oblique hollow]

sloppy + electrode are needed to match instant's power

[hazy saffron]

^

[oblique hollow]

proof that instant is superior

[oblique hollow]

thats also not true, its 1 to 1

[ebon crater]

the ratio for instant is 1:2
the ratio for the coke alternate is 5:20/3... yeah i messed up the math somewhere

[ebon crater]

yeah the default scrap i messed up the maths

[oblique hollow]

120 ingots from 90 bauxite is the best you can get

[hazy saffron]

the blender water -> sulfuric acid refinery thing does have a slight issue though; the liquid disappearing bug

but that can be solved with a single water extractor and one of them fancy priority things

[oblique hollow]

i mean, its a slight upside. no possibility of clogging

[fierce ruin]

wee

[wind spade]

I don't like the "percentages are rounded up"

if a design has 5.01 machines or 5.99 machines, that's a big difference

[oblique hollow]

i didnt care at all about that part

[wind spade]

which is fair, number of machines is very much secondary to resource consumption 😄

just nitpicking some stuff

[sleek dirge]

okay I have a dumb question

can you change settings in the console aswell as bind keys in the developer console like its source engine?

specifically I wanna set up hot keys for changing FOV because it makes building dramatically easier

the game lets you scale it down to like 20 FOV which is insanely unplayable but its really useful for building, the problem is that you need to open the menu and then change it back

[oblique hollow]

dont think so

and if so we dont know

[timber flare]

How many drones would i need if i would transfer 2000+ sulphur /min from dune desert to gold coast

6 enough ?

or you thinking 3 per node ?

[vapid gorge]

I have been suggested that you want 2 drones 1 port for each 300 pm you want to move to me

They have significant land take off times

[timber flare]

Ok so 2 drones in the desert going to one on my buildsite and the destination drone also fetching

Total 9 ?

Ill try that

[vapid gorge]

well if it's 2100 you would want 7 drone ports on the receiving end each with 2 drones pulling sulfur

[timber flare]

Alrighty. thanks ill do 9 just in case

[vapid gorge]

nw!

[timber flare]

Overdoing it wont hurt XD

Hopefully my battery production can keep up

currently doing 240b/min

[vapid gorge]

yeah thta should be easy

really rough guess considering I have no idea bout your distances but I'd be surprised if they took more than 70pm.

that's with some leeway

[vapid gorge]

Anyone have any experience with using those jump pads? How much control do you have of yoru final destination with WASD manipulation during the move?

[timber flare]

Not really (any controll) its basicly a setup and tweak untill you dont die thing

[vapid gorge]

ok so the hologram arrows are pretty set then?

[timber flare]

?

Oh those

If you are lucky they are accurate

Also i did the thing

[cedar mica]

They are a bit finicky, kind of like the hyper tube launchers. Angle, speed, rotation and so on, can change how accurate you land. WASD can allow you to compensate, to some degree.

[vapid gorge]

Someone in the main satisfactory channel got me thinking about a complex hyper tube junction that could let you swap direction. I've done very basic ones but was wondering if doing a complex set up of jump pads in a structure you might be able to maneuveryourself to dif tube lanes w/o landing and walking over

[ripe quarry]

is it a really bad idea to aim for one factory taking in raw resources and producing a full normal uranium node worth of fuel rods?

I think I've got a good setup... using 13 alternates

but man, is the URL a PITA

[vapid gorge]

What do you think is bad about it? Sounds like you're efficiently using a uranium node

[ripe quarry]

just the sheer complexity of making a single factory for that rather than like shipping control rods or something across the map

[timber flare]

I have literally done that.

And im right now doing that with ALL of it

[ripe quarry]

oh ok then. shouldn't be too horrible. I'll just need to replace my western rubber/plastic facility with turbofuel first to pay for it all...

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_NuclearFuelRod_C"%3A"14.4"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_NuclearFuelRod_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureCateriumIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureCopperIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureIronIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureQuartzCrystal_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_SteamedCopperSheet_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Beacon_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_CrystalOscillator_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_IngotSteel_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Quickwire_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Silica_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Stator_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_UraniumCell_1_C"]} for the curious

[ripe quarry]

oh my

[timber flare]

Thats the poor node

300u

[ripe quarry]

I scaled mine to 600 for the northern node

wait the western one mb

[vapid gorge]

I mean if you build a big Power Storage facility you can have like 60GWh charged up to jump start your nuclear station?

[ripe quarry]

yeah that's true

[timber flare]

So basicly double mine. That is from north

[ripe quarry]

I'm on the fence about keeping a lot of my early inefficient farms. I have a basic fuel plant 😂 right next to my dilute fuel plant on the western oil islands

[timber flare]

Oh ye if its inefficient screw it

[vapid gorge]

I was a fan of restarting maps after a while and realising how bad I made things XD But once you have nuclear going you can tear down the old power yeah

Just make sure you have enough power storage to jump start all the nuclear infrastucture

[timber flare]

Im keeping mine right now

[ripe quarry]

yeah that's my plan is to restart once I finish all the T8 research and just do the phase 4. I want to play through in the northern forest knowing how to play now

[timber flare]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/952568903991701564/unknown.png?width=848&height=468

Its enough without my nuclear

[ripe quarry]

and build a real train or/and truck network

[vapid gorge]

So... nuclear is a time and you've made bauxite and TF statoins?

[timber flare]

Older screenshot. you can see in the nuclear setup one its to the east of it

[ripe quarry]

I have a 600 bauxite factory

[vapid gorge]

When I was at that point after doing everythign but the nuclear thigns and final phase elevator I restarted and started doing thigns more cleanly. Now I'm doing a serious nuclear project

[ripe quarry]

yeah that's probably what I'm gonna do; maybe just rush the final T8 milestone and ignore the phase 4 until my next map. I'm finishing up the HD hunt so that I can say I did it

24 ish left

mostly in the swamp, titan forest, and red forest 🥳

then maybe if i have any motivation, play a mod through with like smart mod and energy and all that

[vapid gorge]

Check out how smart! is doing with it's compatibility. It was wonky after U5 and not sure if that's solved.

Area Actions is another fun one that doesn't add assets and provides some interesting toools. Micro Manage is very cool too.

And I like Refined Power but that falls into the decidedly not vanilla category.

[ripe quarry]

yeah I'm gonna do a pure vanilla all the way to the end before going modded. I wish someone would just make a simple asset mod to do a 2-way train track part so you don't have to constantly focus on keeping your tracks separated

[vapid gorge]

Do you not just put 2 foundations next to each other?

[ripe quarry]

I haven't done trains yet but yeah I will. doing two pipes or two belts at once is just the worst feeling cuz you move so slowly

[vapid gorge]

Like if you had to make logistics artery of multiple pipes/belts?

[ripe quarry]

so if you could just worry about placing it as if it was a single belt, I feel like that'd be way better

no like belting or piping for distance

[vapid gorge]

ah yeah thta's just time yeah XD

[ripe quarry]

I ran the rough numbers earlier and a global loop is something like 50 stacks of concrete, and 32 stacks each of steel pipes and beams

for 2-way

[vapid gorge]

Tracks are... a little finicky to laydown if you want to do them very neatly. But you can put them in 12 foundation lengths at a time so it's pretty fast

[ripe quarry]

yeah hopefully

just a few days of work to get it done

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it takes about that https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/572784151439081472/904591478330900501/unknown.png

[ripe quarry]

ok i gotta stop procrastinating and just push through the swamp

that seems a bit wider than i'm gonna do; i plan on cutting through biomes to allow branches to move in or out as needed

[vapid gorge]

cutting through biomes will take more time. For example my coast ones in that bit took way less time than the non coast ones. I built it is such a way that I could connect all the nodes

[ripe quarry]

as long as I maintain a bit of height planning, it should be faster

[vapid gorge]

for example this is the conveyor belts feeding under the train line going to centres https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/553550313533997057/926807489398317086/unknown.png

[vapid gorge]

Depends again how neat you want it.

[ripe quarry]

true. It'll probably be fine.

[vapid gorge]

if you ARE doing a big train network Area Actions mod is helpful becaues you can cut and paste sections. Like I put these platforms all around the world track with it. Would have taken forever https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/572784151439081472/904591880807940136/unknown.png?width=924&height=683

These are all obsolete btw, I've demolished most of it XD

[ripe quarry]

nah i'm gonna do it the old fashioned way. one big 2-wide walkway with rails on it

maybe in my modded playthrough i will

[vapid gorge]

My new train platforms are even more fiddly so 100% using area actions for them XD

[ripe quarry]

oh yeah totally fine. i'm not throwing shade. i just know that if i use one mod, i'll use 10

no self control 🙂

[vapid gorge]

I've managed to mostly use mods that don't change the recipes or actual assets. The only ones that do are the refined power , because its more fun and flexible than hundreds of fuel gens- and Big Water Extractors. Because I hate water extractors

[ripe quarry]

right, right

i've only had to build a dozen so we'll see how long it takes for me to hate them too xd

[vapid gorge]

Even if you overclock them completely you just need SO many for nuclear and a bunch of refining stuff. SO MANY

[ripe quarry]

yeah i saw the 5:2 modular nuclear reactors on the wiki

blech

[vapid gorge]

Big Extractors is essentiall the same model but 5 pipe outputs and can put out 3000 pm. It costs 2.5GW of power so overall more power than 10 regular ones over clocked - but I don't have fields of water extractors. Fair trade

[ripe quarry]

i like mods that actually take effort to balance cost

[vapid gorge]

Refined Power is the only other one that fiddles with that and .. it's not done? The coal and fuel power I think are pretty good because the cost is the extra effort to make the set up. Much more complicated. You get more power for the fuel.

Which is fine? Fuel isn't a bottle neck in the game if you're willing to max nuclear

[copper shell]

i'm trying out that coal plant build again with the 24 gens and 3 pure coal nodes, what would be the best setup with the placement of both the generators and the conveyors to ensure they all get at least somewhat equal coal? i'd really like for it to fit in this shape if possible

[random quiver]

gimme a sec to load. i got a setup that uses that same area but with Mk 2 miners

[copper shell]

thanks

miners are mk1 though since we're not far enough into the game for that yet

[random quiver]

i know. just scale down

[copper shell]

i'm using mk 1 pipes too, we have it done with 3 pumps leading to 2 pipes that forms a loop per 8 coal generators

if that makes sense

it worked pretty good in the old design just... not the coal aspect

[vapid gorge]

keep each seperate coal node feeding 1 section of generators. Don't mix the belts. Other than that if you provide the right number of coal it'll balance itself out in just about any shape you want

[random quiver]

notice i didnt finish. aint played in a bit but the idea is setup for it

[copper shell]

that's what we've been doing but it still ended up with a few barely getting any coal and constantly stopping and starting

[vapid gorge]

That sounds like it might have been a belt or math problem?

[copper shell]

yeah that's what i'm saying, i'm not sure what to do that will work better honestly

[vapid gorge]

So you were wanting 3 nodes feeding 24. So that's 8x15 pm so 120 coal per minute per node. You have the miners clocked to 120 and have mk2 belts?

making sure there' isn't a hidden mk1 belt segment messing you up

[random quiver]

this is what i had going on with that area

least what i have. somewhat remember the direction i was going

[copper shell]

so it just went from one end down with splitters intermittently?

weird, that's what we tried

i say intermittently i mean in front of each coal gen

[vapid gorge]

when you click the coal generators are they full of both water and coal?

[copper shell]

they're all full of water

[random quiver]

basically. each coal gen fills from first to last, and i think water was piped from below

[copper shell]

some will get a ton of coal, others will get 1-2 and occasionally cut out for a second before getting another piece back

[vapid gorge]

build a look out tower and take a screenshot from overhead?

[vapid gorge]

oh it DOES take a while to balance itself out.

[random quiver]

it takes a while for the system to fill

[vapid gorge]

like let it run for 10 min

[copper shell]

ooooh okay

it was on another world either way, i'll send one here when we get it all put together

[vapid gorge]

they eventually do that

[random quiver]

what you can do to help is place portable miners, get a stack, then hand fill the machines

[vapid gorge]

Manifolds just take time to self balance

The bigger and more complex the manifold the longer it takes to balance itself

[random quiver]

i think i took that about 20-30 min to balance last i remember. havent played in a bit but getting back into it

least for that setup i showed

[vapid gorge]

yeah completely depends on build. My Turbo Fuel plant with multiple manifolds took like 1.5 hours XD

[random quiver]

i can post more if you need a general idea, but i'd just DM them to you instead of blowing it up here

[ripe quarry]

I've found that staging builds helps with manifold heating. If the outputs aren't being used, they'll fill while you build the next section

Only once you finish building the next section do you connect its inputs

The only exception is something like aluminum where you backfeed liquids and can't let it stop running or it dies

[vapid gorge]

It's actually a really good idea to fill up machines that are off, like generators, or running at 1% or something so fill all the buffers before you really flip the switch. But that's similar to what you're describing yeah

Filling buffers and making sure you're manifolds are looped are probably the 2 first pipe tricks that make the biggest dif 🙂

[ripe quarry]

what do you mean by manifolds looped?

i manifold such that my last machine is set to consume whatever is left

or do you mean pipe manifolds

i've never understood that idea, but i assume it's related to sloshing and fluid "physics" (good thing the pipes are closed so we don't have to see the spaghetti code 😉 )

[vapid gorge]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/BV8G_ByEj1MZrx5-suiC9NKgHq8LZzN5nfWFOosPKKQ/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/553550566991724545/953970213337071686/unknown.png

Pipe manifolds yeah. So in the pic the fluid would be coming from the left and the end is looped back to the start so the fluid is coming from both directions. It fixes most sloshing issues

[ripe quarry]

gotcha yeah. does it matter if you loop it below or can it be on the same height

i'll have to go do that to my dilute fuel plant

[vapid gorge]

side or below I think is better?

I've never done the loop from the top. I might be ok but a lot of piping involves looking at your whole set up

[ripe quarry]

i mean

[vapid gorge]

Like it's often very hard to help people trouble shoot more than the more simple pipe set ups w/o looking directly at it

[vapid gorge]

oh you only really need the loop where the machines start consuming the fluid. In general

[ripe quarry]

gotcha. so that's actually 2 pipes on top of each other and the second drops down when the first one is empty

so add the loop at that transition?

[vapid gorge]

I would need to see some screen shots to be at all sure of my answer here sorry XD

[ripe quarry]

no worries. i'm waiting on a radar tower in the far east so i'll see if i can hop over there rq

[vapid gorge]

I'm puttering at my desk today, just ping me whenever

[ripe quarry]

there's the transition

[vapid gorge]

ok so it's 2 seperate manifolds you just have them starting one after the other

[ripe quarry]

yeah exactly

[vapid gorge]

None of the generators at the end of the manifolds stutter or seem starved? The fuel producers don't get clogged with fuel?

[ripe quarry]

nope and not that i've seen

it's balanced exactly though

i left the two underclocked units (one on each pipe) disconnected for an hour or two to let it fill up

[vapid gorge]

Cool then it seems the manifold is simple and direct enough in lay out you don't need to loop it

[ripe quarry]

good enough for me lol

[vapid gorge]

It also partially depends on how fast the machines suck out the liquid from the manifold whether you get stutters. Pipes are finicky

[ripe quarry]

oop i do see a couple stuttering but on the first manifold, not the second

i'll try a valve at the front and see if that helps

[vapid gorge]

noooooo

[ripe quarry]

honestly i could just underclock the two units a bit more and let fuel go excess, then set a variable pipe on the end to pick up the extra for packaged fuel

since i don't have any packaged fuel running

[vapid gorge]

valves in general are trouble unless you know precisely what the go is

[ripe quarry]

fair. the only place i'm using them is bauxite

[vapid gorge]

that's a solid spot. If you do see a stutter... loop it then?

Like in the pic you shared you could probably loop the left one back on itself overhead

[ripe quarry]

gotcha

[vapid gorge]

It also depends how much you care

[ripe quarry]

true

i kind of like the packaged fuel idea a bit more though

[vapid gorge]

like... if you're running at 98% max power efficiency....?

what would the packaged fuel be for?

[ripe quarry]

yeah i think there's like 33.3 units on each manifold so like.... it's fine

jet pack

[vapid gorge]

Oh yeah. Underclock something a big and gather some

[ripe quarry]

only need like 1 or 2 more stacks though so probably not worth. i have it in storage anyway

probably just so i have it if i want it, idk

[vapid gorge]

You probably want a source constnatly producing SOME packaged fuel for your pack. What I've done though is just set a very small self contained refinery system for it so it didn't interfere with power prod

If you do link your packaged fuel to this set up though have a sink for overflow packaged fuel so it doesn't clog

[ripe quarry]

yeah i have the impure node out here to play with too. i was gonna do a normal and pure turbo but i could save the normal for recycled plastic/rubber

yeah sink the overflow as always

this is actually a perfect excuse to actually convert to HOR alternate now that i have it

[vapid gorge]

Wit hthe recycled plastic set up remember that it's a lot less logistics to move the oil to where you're making the rubber/plastic than to move the plastic rubber somewhere to get used

You get 3 plastic/rubber to 1 crude with it so when I was converting 3000 oil it was just a few pipes

[ripe quarry]

eh, i'm not gonna be doing a whole lot. I've already got a belt set up back to the main base so i can do the p4 stuff if i feel like it. like i said earlier, gonna restart at some point soonish and do it right

[stark bronze]

Why are electronics so hard to plan out
Maybe fully investing in crystal computer isn't a good idea
But it seemed like the best idea ever

[vapid gorge]

Some of the other circuit board recipes might make youre life easier?

[stark bronze]

I don't know whether to go to town on caterium or quartz
Copper has already surpassed iron which doesn't sound like a good thing

[vapid gorge]

specifically for computers or other parts?

[stark bronze]

Everything after computer is essentially upgraded computers
Or upgraded circuit board depending on the recipe
I just can't decide whether to tape quickwire or crystals on them

[vapid gorge]

I tend to prefer to use caterium comps myself. I use a lot of quartz for other things

[stark bronze]

This got me the most, they keep saying quartz is a bottleneck but I'm not feeling it yet

And if I just go and use crystals in everything it might get to me

[vapid gorge]

It depends what you're dong and what you're maximizing.

If you're not doing a GIANT map? There really aren't much in teh way of bottlenecks

For example my quartz is going to cheap silica for Silicon Circuit boards and silicon high speed connectors

Silicon CB because it uses a bit less copper than Caterium CB and Silicon HSC because it also uses less copper

[stark bronze]

And the amount you are making is enough for that to encroach on other quartz demands?

Maybe I'm just worrying too much about a mk1 belt of everything

[vapid gorge]

Yup! I'm sloowly grinding away at a giant infrastructure.

Yeah look if you aren't doing a massive thing? No real bottle necks.

Mostly you just have to consider location of factories and how easy tranport of material is.

You could just base your recipe use on what is close by and useful so you don't have to import anything or import less things

[stark bronze]

Maybe machine count would be a good place to start
Forgot if satisfactory tool makes it easy to keep track of

[vapid gorge]

Machine count is more about space? And if you're willing to overclock there's a lot of wiggle room.

[stark bronze]

Yeah I wasn't going to worry about space, but since now I know there isnt a need to worry about raw resource bottlenecks may as well find another thing to optimize

[vapid gorge]

Everyone has their goal 😄 I spent like 2 weeks just planning out hub locations to minimize traffic 😄

[stark bronze]

Almost forgot about that ugh
I guess it doesn't matter, just let the end products drone pool back home

[oblique hollow]

mix and match recipes depending on whats nearby

[frosty owl]

Mix and match belts depending on what recipes are processed nearby

[summer fox]

is it possible to get 1:1 output from a node to train station or will the distance and the animation mean will always be less?

[wind spade]

it's possible with ISC buffer

[summer fox]

what is a isc?

[wind spade]

industrial storage container

side view

              =| ISC |= ->- =| platform |
--> input --> =|     |= ->- =|          |

one belt goes to storage container, two belts connect container to platform

you have to do the same for unloading as well (just in reverse)

[summer fox]

and does that change if you have multiple trains running on the same line?

[wind spade]

no, number of trains doesn't do anything to it

[summer fox]

what about the number of nodes i think i have 3 nodes ( different purity) so would i need to set up more isc to deal with that?

[wind spade]

the setup I've shown is for one full belt

each belt goes to one platform

so if you have 3 nodes, you can build 3 platforms

(or if you can and want to merge belts, you can build less, if belt speed allows that)

[summer fox]

ok thanks i`l give it a go

[rare surge]

so ugggh, how much rubber|plastic is really needed end-game >.>

using just the oil nodes from south-east corner of map one could produce over 9k rubber/minute. which seems a bit extreme

[wind spade]

depends which recipes you use, what is your end goal, etc.

hard to tell really

using whole map, you can produce 35100 rubber/plastic 🤷‍♂️

[rare surge]

unless I made a mistake in my maths:

[wind spade]

with best recipes you can triple your oil

though the first object seems weird, you produce 60/min rubber or plastic out of 30 rubber of plastic + 30 fuel

idk where the 90 and 120 come from

[rare surge]

30rubber + 30fuel = 60 plastic

(2 refinieries to do) 60 plastic + 60 fuel = 120 rubber

30 fuel(r->p) + 60fuel(p->r) = 90 fuel

[wind spade]

ah, what's the reason to count 3 refineries at once?

[rare surge]

yea

[wind spade]

(your math checks out tho, it triples the oil. But I could tell you that without a node script 😛 )

[rare surge]

little less than tripling, but close >.>

[oblique hollow]

need resin too

else its just 2.666666x

[wind spade]

yeah it's tripling with resin -> residual rubber

[rare surge]

ah, yea

[wind spade]

(I'm not sure what all the properties are, I just looked at input.baseItem vs outputAfterLoop which was x3)

[rare surge]

The above is based on just fuel as an input. It assumes the baseitem is present and doesn't factor in producing it

[wind spade]

you could also just use satisfactorytools

[rare surge]

I could, but I like tinkerings

(unrelated) is Docs.json outdated? I couldn't seem to find nitrogren gas in it :/

[wind spade]

shouldn't be 🤔

it's Desc_NitrogenGas_C

[rare surge]

Under ItemDescriptors?

[wind spade]

under Class'/Script/FactoryGame.FGResourceDescriptor'

[timber flare]

I head you guys like numbers. 5400 wire/m right there

[rare surge]

still got room on those belts for another 360/min

wait, are those mk5s?

only need ~7belts if so

[timber flare]

Yes but they are all exactly 450 each and i like that number

one line doues exacly half a line of manufacturers of uranium cells

Dragging it over here. (Under construction)

72 manufacturers in the end

Will be enough for 1800 uranium

All the curently unused in my world

[timber flare]

Logistics go BRRRRR

Bout 3hours of work appearently. pog

Front side has 72 open belts ready to accept load balanced uranium

[vapid gorge]

That's a lot of stuff!

[timber flare]

The occilator, beacon and controll rod belts are also ready. Tomorrow ill build the part behind that actually makes the cells. Then ill go get the liquids for the reprocessing

Then its just to place a stupid amount of plants and water extractors

216 plants and 540 extractors

Last is probably to set up the last of the drone network to get the uranuim in

[vapid gorge]

Nice 😄 I'm just working the kinks out of the copper sheet and steel pipe section for mine

[charred gazelle]

So, is it better to overclock power plants (eg. for turbofuel), or should they only run at 100%?

[wind spade]

you don't gain anything by overclocking, so unless you really know what you're doing, I'd keep them at 100%

[rare surge]

better to use slugs for resource extraction first and foremost

[left zenith]

what's better, fertile uranium or the standard non-fissile recipie?

also, instant plutonium cell or standard?

[timber flare]

Depends on if you care to maximize uranium output

[timber flare]

Depends on if you want to get rid of the wate or actually use the plutonium

[left zenith]

so which ones are better for making maxmizing plutonium and which ones are better for waste disposal?

[timber flare]

Lemme look at my own for a sec

I believe standard is best for disposal

[wintry aurora]

I kinda prioritized more to reduce the number of particle accelerators, and yea, as kalle said, generally default is best, but you may want to use alts for one reason or another.

[timber flare]

If you want to make uranium rods though i would recomend the alts for uranium cell and rod

Infused cell and Uranium fuel unit

[wintry aurora]

You need to make them anyway for plutonium?

[timber flare]

ye

[carmine wigeon]

So I just realised that you can type in the % clock speed (or output) of a building down .0000 factor

You don't just have to use the slider

Which means the hours and hours I've spent calculating to what factor of 1% I need to set all my buildings to in my huge base to prevent starvation have been wasted

This need to be more obvious...

So others don't waste hours of their life like I did

[still trout]

youre not gonna believe this but you can also type in how many/min you need of the output and itll convert the clock speed to that

[carmine wigeon]

Yeah I tried that next

Those boxes need to be made more obviously edit-able

[summer fox]

if a pipeline`s flow rate is maxed but not full does that mean the pipeline is working at max efficient? i am sorting out fuel generators and the 133 fuel generators + amounts in pipeline makes it hard to arcuately predict

[timber flare]

Yes

[vapid gorge]

Also try filling up all the generators when they're turned off then flipping them on when their buffers are full. It'll make life easier

[summer fox]

thanks is there a way to mass turn on/off like i said i`m dealing with potentially 300+ fuel generators so switching them on/off one at time is going be laborious

[vapid gorge]

Nope XD

[vapid gorge]

Something you COULD do though is fill up a few big buffers at the end of the pipe manifolds before you connect the generators, put a 0 flow valve going back towards future power gens, hook everything up then let the excess fuel flow to flood the system.

Might be less work than turning on and off all the generators?

Other things you could do though is like... only hook up the end ones and flood them and then hook up more and more as they fill up. Lots of ways to do it

Basically think of a way to flood the system with more fuel than needed and go for it?

Probably dozens of ways

[summer fox]

yeah the buffer idea sounds good, let the production of turbo fuel builds up as it seems the amount in the pipeline muddles up the calculations and isn`t as simple 600/4.5

[vapid gorge]

The big problem that flooding a fluid system does is often to get around the sloshing and back flow that might reverse direction of the fluid and stutter the fluid producers, meaning you never get much output.

TF, because they use so little fluid per minute have LESS of this problem. So you might not need to. But I've had to deal with so many pipe issues I now always do preemptive fixs

[summer fox]

it seems due to the trickiness of fluid i dont think that this power factory would be 100% efficient but because i am producing so much and have so many generators it would just be brute forcing the problems

[vapid gorge]

You can basically get them 100%? If you accept that there's a fluid loss bug in the game on load. And the fluid loss hits TF much harder because each unit of loss is great for TF compared to regular fuel

[summer fox]

sort of because 600m3 turbo fuel (a full mk 2 pipe) is enough for 133 fuel generators but because of the pipe`s length some it would be sorted in that so in actuality it make only be 120 fuel generators, as for the fluid loss bug because i am producing it it isnt going cripple my power just dip my power production

[wind spade]

Which has the same effect as if you'd write clock speed normally anyway

[tardy folio]

Heyy

[timber flare]

hi

[vapid gorge]

yoooo?

[solar kite]

What's the ratio for screws if i have 4 constructors of rods from a normal iron node

[vapid gorge]

how many rods pm does a constructor make and how many rods pm does a constructor making screws need?

[solar kite]

15 rods pm for each constructor so that's 60pm

[vapid gorge]

Divide that by how many rods each screw constructor consumes per minute

[timid zealot]

whats the max possible power production solely from nuclear if you recycle into plutonium and then burn plutonium

[wispy elk]

Probably more then 5

[timid zealot]

nvm i found out

its 1.19mil

[wind spade]

it's like 1.1 TW or smth

[timid zealot]

i wonder what the max power generation(without bio burners of course) is because material usage would bring fuel/turbofuel or coal production down

[wind spade]

well if you burn all oil and coal and sulfur to turbofuel+fuel+compaced coal+coal, then material usage is irrelevant 😛

[timid zealot]

ye but stuff for nuclear stuff requires steel/ rubber/ plastic so some oil and coal woud be used instead of using them for coal plants or fuel gens

[timid zealot]

would that be more efficient than nuclear

[wind spade]

definitely not

[digital cedar]

Stupid question - the wiki says that the points required per ticket increases based on the number taken...... is that correct? As in, is it fewer points/ticket if I let them sit there and don't take them out of the sink?

[wind spade]

no

it increases per ticket produced

not per ticket taken out of shop

[timid zealot]

otherwise that bwould be seriously exploitable

[digital cedar]

that was why I was confused by the article

[timid zealot]

bcs you could be producing 30 mil points pm and have a ticket cost like 100 points

[digital cedar]

ah, it uses the word, "acquired" <-- https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/AWESOME_Sink

[timid zealot]

300k tickets a min lmao

if that was how it worked

[timid zealot]

reffering to this message

[digital cedar]

What's the path towards the final 250/1,000 ticket statues? I have everything else but now it's just ridiculous.

[timid zealot]

pull all production towards tickets

[digital cedar]

Also beat phase 4 w/o nuclear so I'm proud of myself for that..... looking for something else to do now.

turbofuel FTW

[timid zealot]

make a max nuclear factory
isnt it kinda obvious
or maybe start a new save

or ust make a factory that uses every node

[wind spade]

*factories

[timid zealot]

true, if you made 1 youre game would break

[opal coral]

How much do you hate yourself

[digital cedar]

I would do things very differently if I started over. So I'm tempted to do it again but a JIT (just in time) to only produce as much as I consume for all parts.

[timid zealot]

nuclear>turbo
bcs points for plutonium

[digital cedar]

what's the highest value nuclear waste you can still sink?

[timid zealot]

wdym

[digital cedar]

I've avoided nuclear because I can't find the stupid plastic fabric stuff so I can't automate filters yet. Got tired of mining mycillia each time I rana out.

[timid zealot]

you mean poly fabric?

you should be producing loads of poly resin, ur using diluted fuel to make turbo righht

its an alt to make fabric out of poly resin and some other stuff

then auto gas filters

then io filters

[frosty owl]

You can sink all uranium-related items except for the Waste
You can't sink all plutoniun-related items except for the Rods

[river chasm]

hey, I need to make a load balancer that splits 60 items/min to 3 lines of 4, 20, and 36

[frosty owl]

That's quite the hellish split to make. You sure you can't manifold it?

[river chasm]

yeah, I have the checks notes 20 for adaptive control units, 36 for super computers, and 4 for personal use

[frosty owl]

You'd need to split in 15ths (4/min) and merge to get your outputs. Then you might be able to optimize and take away some mergers/splitters, but it's still quite the big contraption

[river chasm]

I love spaghetti

[timber flare]

Na you start with a 3way splitter so you have 20 20 20

[frosty owl]

Then you're gonna have quite some fun

[timber flare]

From there you just split one of those to 1/5th and merge

ez

[frosty owl]

One could get there by optimizing, but yeah, that's an optimal solution

[river chasm]

it doesn't seem that bad

the most complicated thing would be a 1:5 spliter

[frosty owl]

Yeah, balancing gets annoying when you have to back merge imo

[timber flare]

ez

[frosty owl]

Though...
MK1 balancer with high tier items...
That gotta look pretty noice in function

[river chasm]

not every belt would be equal here

[timber flare]

Input from south merger input would be spread evenly

[frosty owl]

They're all equal, but every output is 1/5 of the input

[timber flare]

Into top 5 boxes

That is a 1:5 splitter setup

You would spilt your 60 into 20 20 20 then do this to one of the 20s

[river chasm]

nvm, it just didn't look equal to me

[timber flare]

If you instead limit what your machines reqire instead of loadbalanching you could save youself the headache

That is why people like manifolds

[river chasm]

it's all for different factories

that's why I have to do it like this

[frosty owl]

Or change the output of the production machines so you can merge numbers "more convenient to split"...
Worlds of possibilities, really~

[timber flare]

Do the seperate factories have more reqirements than you planned input? @river chasm

If not you dont need to

[river chasm]

@timber flare

[timber flare]

pog

[river chasm]

I can't change the ratio of adaptive control units and super computers because I'll be using those for Assembly Director Systems

[fluid spoke]

idk if anyone knows this or not

[hazy saffron]

Interesting

[timber flare]

pog

[vapid gorge]

Idealy you test all your nuclear parts first to see the rest of it works, then feed in the radioactive things and hopefully never have to step inside again

[ripe quarry]

turbofuel maxes at like 500GW dunnit? that's plenty for P4, even if you do only half for 250 GW and the rest for rubber/plastic/coke

[fierce ruin]

Hello. I need help for a load balancing. I've three Manufacturer producing each one 1/min, and I need to balance that to 3 output which are (1.2, 1.2, 0.6)

[noble agate]

Combine them so that you have 3/min on one belt. Split that to 6 (splitter for two, then each to three). Send one of the six back to the beginning. At that point you have 5 belts of 0.6/min. Combine two of them twice and you have 1.2, 1.2 and 0.6.

[wind spade]

other option is to just put a splitter and let it self-balance

[fierce ruin]

Splitter doesn't self balance

[wind spade]

or clock the manufacturers to the proper speeds

[fierce ruin]

Can't

[wind spade]

they do

[fierce ruin]

I'm already maxup

[wind spade]

if one side is full, they put stuff to other sides

[fierce ruin]

It's to divide properly my fuel rod into reactors

Yep, but I want to balance in order to avoid big stack of fuel rod into the same place

[wind spade]

build 5 manufacturers, each producing 0.6, merge two of them for each 1.2

or look for 3 to 5 balancer 🤷‍♂️

[noble agate]

I just described one above 🙂

[wind spade]

rather offtopic

[fierce ruin]

I'm trying to schematize it

[fierce ruin]

When you said "back to the beggining" it's when i've 3 ?

[noble agate]

Not the best drawing, but don’t have time to make it better 😄

But yeah, send back to the 3.0 belt

[fierce ruin]

Thank you !

It's good enough to be readable

[wind spade]

I'd just do this tbh

and build 5 manufacturers

will even be more power efficient

[frosty owl]

@fierce ruin Tbf, nuclear recipes ARE made to have simple ratios between the machines (thus is true for all uranium processing), so clocking the manufacturers so they output 1/min (enough for 5 nuclear power plants) rather then 0.4 or 0.6/min (enough for 2 and 3 NPPs respectively) is ought to make the Rods management more complex, straying from trivial splitting

[river chasm]

I need to make 100 modular frames (to make 20 HMF using the flexible frame alternate), using the bolted frame recipe. For this, I need 150 Reinforced Iron Plates which use 500 iron plates and 1000 wire with the stitched plates alt. are these numbers right?

[frosty owl]

Yes.

My turn to ask: why combining stitched with bolted rather than go for stitched + normal frames (for efficiency) or bolted + bolted (for least machines)?
Personally, I think that between the 2 bolted recipes, the one for modular frames is the one that gives the least advantages in machine count

[river chasm]

I thought bolted was better, I found more coal so Im now using the steeled frame recipe because I get to make less RIPs

I don’t like dealing with numbers over 1000 when planning a factory

[frosty owl]

"Better" depends on a lot of factors, many of which are personal preferences ^^
All bolted recipes basically trade resource efficiency for machine count: they require more iron/coal but less machines for the same output

Stitched is a bit of an oddball in comparison (at least for RIPs) as it's a straight up improvement compared to standard: less resources AND less machines than standard, but still requiresa bit more machines than bolted

[zenith willow]

Question. The bits in orange, is that the speed they need to produce at to make the out time up with the end product? Is that how i'm supposed to read it?

[wicked tinsel]

its amount of buildings you need

[zenith willow]

Ah. so if i put it to 10, it says, 2.667/x melter, it's 2 melters at 100% and one at 66%

[wicked tinsel]

yeah

or three smelters at 0.889, as you prefer

[zenith willow]

You calculated that fast lol

[oblique hollow]

calculators exist

its just not-whole number divided by whole number

so 2.66666 / 3

[wind spade]

future version of the tool will be able to do this for you 😉

[zenith willow]

That's awesome, but I meant that Amelek calculated that 0.889 fast lol

[wind spade]

yeah as McGalleon said, it's just 2.666666/3

[wind spade]

tho technically you should say "at 88.8889%" 🙂

[wicked tinsel]

to be fair, with how imprecise the game is, 889 or even 89 might be better

[wind spade]

well I mean that you said "at 0.88" rather than "at 88.8%"

if someone took your message literally and underclocked it to 0.8%, they would be surprised 😄

[wicked tinsel]

well

fair

[wind spade]

you can't even do it anyway

[oblique hollow]

better idea: just let the game do the math

(2.6666/3)*100

and boom, clocking done

[wind spade]

the problem is that if you want to be precise, this isn't great, since game may round down instead of up

[oblique hollow]

its ok if you enter it in the clocking window

and not the parts/min window

[wind spade]

tho as was said, game's precision may not be up to this levels anyway

[frosty owl]

This is the issue I have with all the posts claiming "you can just set an equation in the field, easy" without mentioning the rounding.

Like, why would you even go to the lenghtes of having numbers with 5 decimals in your equation if you don't even know they're gonna be rounded anyway? Of course the result won't be what you expected

[wind spade]

I also had people saying "you can just set X per minute to get exactly what you want" and they didn't believe me that the game can round that for them after they close the UI.

[frosty owl]

Makes me remember of when I got downvoted for explaining the belt-belt issues (you chimed in to help luckily )

[wind spade]

e.g. a person sent me this claiming they can have 20 per minute output from concrete constructor

not only is the number per minute shown rounded, the clock speed doesn't match 20 exactly anyway

[wind spade]

yeah happened to me a few times as well (can't remember the occasions tho)

[wicked tinsel]

i guess its also poorly tied to fps like everything else in game

so you probably get different real precision depending on how well your game runs

[frosty owl]

No
I am certain of this
FPS don't affect machines' output or their precision

[wind spade]

but basically people not knowing about stuff (only from videos of popular content creators that also don't know about said stuff) downvoting and angrily saying "you're wrong" about some topics - classic reddit

[frosty owl]

Oh, BTW @wicked tinsel, would you be interested in touring the Sushi Fuel Rods factory and give your 2 cents on the logistics? ^^

Who knows, you might even find a couple contraptions that might interest you or you thought impossible 😉

I would extend an invitation to greeny too, but I doubt he would be interested

[wicked tinsel]

hmm

i guess i could, but not quite sure when

[oblique hollow]

i dunno i just pretend its correct and the game believes me xd

[frosty owl]

DMs?

[wicked tinsel]

i need to kill illdian today :x, maybe tomorrow after 20 euro time?

[oblique hollow]

killdian

[frosty owl]

Yeah, no worries. I can just send you the save so you can check at leisure, if you prefer ^^

[wicked tinsel]

i guess that could work too

[frosty owl]

There's tons of signs (even if WIP) after all, so I'm quite confident you can wrap your head around it on your own if you were to load it on your own

||Sir Galleon would be welcome to tour too! 😉
End of self-promo or whatnot||

[sleek dirge]

is it just me or "Freight Wagon is fully loaded/unloaded" option is really fucking buggy

I've been using it so that the the train would stay docked in the station until it's fully unloaded and only once it's empty it can go out and pick up more materials from another station

[oblique hollow]

it needs the "and" setting too

[sleek dirge]

yep

it works exactly as I want it if the train only has one freight wagon

[oblique hollow]

yea ive heard it doesnt like multiple ones

[sleek dirge]

but if I am trying to have 2 wagons and those settings it unloads one wagon at some point and then the second one just never gets unloaded so its stuck

[oblique hollow]

welp... cant use it then

[sleek dirge]

so you have to use the OR option and eyeball the amount of time

yeah I get it now but it was a bit of a pain to figure it out

other than this the trains in this game are really good I think

if things get stuck or crash its probably your fault

[oblique hollow]

that setting was added rather "recently"

update 5. and very little has been touched on there since then

also a reason why the menu looks so unpolished right now

[sleek dirge]

they're probably aware and it's probably some kinda complicated piece of spaghetti code that breaks it so they cant fix it

hopefully something is in the works

[wicked tinsel]

trains are still in pretty bad state

hopefully they will get fixed before 1.0

[sleek dirge]

nevermind it breaks even with a single wagon

you have to set it to OR X seconds

[neon crater]

What i hope will come is: Scanning for ores, it would be useful to see whether they are used or unused. And to make an Advanced Splitter like right only Iron roads are comming out and left only is sorting Iron Plates (all in one conveyor belt)

[oblique hollow]

smart splitters can sort already

[neon crater]

but when i have 10 items in one belt, that 10 items get Splittet seperate.

[oblique hollow]

oh, number of item settings

unlikely, dont think we will get that

its part of the challenge

[neon crater]

yeah me to

just explaned it my open mind xd

[opal coral]

So, I did some math that I'd like an opinion. A normal iron deposit with a mk1 mine can serve two smelters and could serve an assembler?

[wind spade]

depends which recipes you use, what clock speed... etc

[opal coral]

For example it'd be 100% clock on everything, making ingots into say plates on mk1 belts

[timber flare]

Yes

60 ore -> 60 ingots -> 40 plates

[timber flare]

I just realized an issue with my nuclear setup. Im out of space...

That is not even half placed. and if i place all i will be low on space for extractors XD

How annoying would it be to place the extactors stupidly close together and have a pump move the liquid to a junction above them ?

Or maybe like this...

Beeg extractor farm

Hopefully enough space

I should have made my big one up north...

North base is currently experiencing some minor radiation issues

My aluminum plant stalled from lack of silica of all things

swapped to pure to fix and throttled the plant to half uranium input so it will probably fix itself

[left zenith]

what is it? waste storage or just general nuclear production?

also, you could overclock the extractors if they're not already or, if you're desperate, use fluid trains to import water

[timber flare]

Full process from uranium to sinked pultonium rod

[left zenith]

but fluid trains are last resort

[timber flare]

Ye no im probably just filling the ocean. not overclocking its annoying getting slugs

Reason its radioactive is starved rods and heatsinks

[left zenith]

mm that's not good

[timber flare]

so the plants have alot of waste RN

[left zenith]

can't wait for nuclear power to start stalling

[timber flare]

Oh they did

[left zenith]

hope you have enough power storage!

[timber flare]

Not needed

[wicked tinsel]

pipe stuff has hard clearance so you generally cant do it easily

you will need pipe or more spacing between rows

[timber flare]

pumps have hard clearance ?

[wicked tinsel]

yes

[timber flare]

ouch

[wicked tinsel]

pipe junctions do too

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/61d59833831c852052367f8b

[timber flare]

I guess ill do same setup as small plant there and hope i have enough space

[timber flare]

Reason i did not need power storage. Thats all fuel power to the right

[left zenith]

heavy oil -> diluted fuel -> turbo?

[timber flare]

no turbo

all diluted

[left zenith]

I still don't have heavy oil alt yet

[timber flare]

I would not do turbo. takes to much sulph

[left zenith]

but I have both recycled recipies and diluted fuel

[timber flare]

atleast at the same time as doing the mass nuke project

[left zenith]

yeah, i've been planning out battery and nuclear production and my main takeaway is "wow, sulfur is a pain in the ass to get"

[timber flare]

you see the top right of this factory ? thats droneports droning in a shitton of sulphur

#math-and-meta message

all 3 pure nodes close to desert

2 desert + swamp

[left zenith]

I think i'll just drone or train the sulfur

[river chasm]

chuckles I’m in danger

[hazy saffron]

that is gonna be fun

[vapid gorge]

When I ran the numbers I thought you might have been better off overall with the regular Solution recipe to extract as much of that silica as pos? Been a while

better off in terms of 'destroying your quartz supply'

[river chasm]

I just want to get the most out of the bauxite, but you have a point, I probably won't use all of the aluminum anyway

[vapid gorge]

I get where you're coming from with it, it might be fun XD

But just as an example I'm dong hte 9780 ingot set up and the planned world will take 400GW to consume all that bauxite w/o overclocking.

You'll need nuclear for that which will consume a a big chunnk of hte leftover quartz but then that cut out basically any recipe that uses quartz - restricts oscilator use...

If you just want to make the project of full max bauxite then cool - but if that's not the goal... it sounds like it'll cut into everythign else

Also - who knows what it'll be like with future up dates XD maybe go wild

[river chasm]

I could cut back though, I don't want to use all the quartz, I also wanna do something big though and I don't really care about the oscillators, just enough for nuclear and a few for personal use is good enough for me

13000 ingots is a lot though

using the standard recipe sounds more appealing now

[vapid gorge]

It's MUCH simpler. Also it's v annoying transporting all that quartz since it's so spread out

[river chasm]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

9780 ingots is pretty darn big too. Especially if you connect up the side factories to directly consume the Al Ingots

The plan for alsmost all my ingots is that they get consumed right next door

[river chasm]

yeah, I plan to do that after I plan everything that will use aluminum

[timber flare]

Fun fact. If you want to use uranium efficiently you need bout 60 crystal occilators /m

Pain

[frosty owl]

Eh, NoT eVeN 30 manufacturers' worth~

[timber flare]

OH right you guys use the alt ...

[oblique hollow]

yep easier to make than reinforced plate. though adheres plate could make the default ones very easy

[timber flare]

Im doing the standard with bolted right now for my max nuclear. Its alot of quartz

[oblique hollow]

bolted iron plates? why

[wind spade]

yeah extra cost for no real gain

[timber flare]

Didnt feel like building the extra machines

[warm wren]

Any reason this shouldn't work? The left pipe is the byproduct from aluminium scrap, at 420 min, the bottom one is from the pump at 180 min 🤔

[oblique hollow]

valve after the pump is not limited to 180

thus the water extractor is free to back up and empty itself out, possibly clogging the system

[dense warren]

hello guys, how are you?
does anyone have an idea about what the best recipe for heavy modular frames is and why?

[timber flare]

Im going to give you the best answer.

It depends.

XD

[oblique hollow]

Encased imo because no screws

its also quite efficient

[dense warren]

depends on what?

[dense warren]

i've used that on a older save of mine

but i'm considering it

[timber flare]

Flexible Imo cause rubber is ez and steel screws are a thing

[dense warren]

just out of curiosity

[timber flare]

I tend to belt steel ingots in my larger factories

[frosty owl]

Encased for efficiency, flexible for fast setup if you got steel and rubber to spare, standard if you hate yourself

[dense warren]

the thing about flexible, is that it is 5 modular frames per each heavy one

[wind spade]

what your goals are, what do you define "best" as, etc.

[dense warren]

i'd like it to be efficient

but i'm not sure yet what i still have to take in consideration

once i built a 24 hmf/min factory

but it turned out very big, and consumed several nodes

i'm nto sure if i want to do that again

i'd like to make 5/min for now

[wind spade]

efficient how? power? resources? space? complexity?

[dense warren]

a bit of all i guess xD

i want 100% matching ratios, power i don't really care

[wind spade]

matching ratios is easy with underclocking

[dense warren]

for resources, i got mostly iron, but if i can use a bit of somehting else, say rubber for reinforced plates, i'd do it

[wind spade]

(and some items are impossible to produce with matching ratios without underclocking)

[dense warren]

the problem with underclocking is that sometimes u end up requiering a wierd amount of iron

[wind spade]

well the best you can do is to check what each recipe does and decide based on that 🤷‍♂️ there's not really a "best" or "worst" recipe

[dense warren]

like 132 or something like that

[wind spade]

it's not a problem tho 🤷‍♂️ use rest for something else or underclock miner

[dense warren]

what would you do for example? and why?

[wind spade]

I generally like resource efficient recipes as resources are the only truly limited resource

[dense warren]

i agree

i don't mid power at all, and thus i don't mind complexity as wel i guess

so, that would be which recipe?

[wind spade]

for which item? 🙂