math-and-meta

[frosty owl]

To clarify: mk4 -> normal splitter -> mk1/mk4
Right?

[hazy saffron]

yep

[frosty owl]

So what are the numbers for the containers?

[hazy saffron]

10500 left and 1500 right

[frosty owl]

And that's in your save, so no "perfect FPS" or anything, right? xD

[hazy saffron]

yeah

right in the middle of my main factory because I couldn't be bothered to go elsewhere or set up a new save

[frosty owl]

I totally don't do that with railways too...

[hazy saffron]

?

[frosty owl]

Ah, you know, just clipping a few stations and railways in the middle of your production to do some quick testing
Because "going outside" to make a foundation for it is too much work

[hazy saffron]

it's not clipping

it's blank spot that 's just kinda in the middle of my factory

I haven't found anything else to use that spot for

so it's just kinda been "i need quick production of like fourteen items" area

[cerulean bobcat]

so maybe im bad at math but im having issues with heavy oil residue on an OC'd pump

that pump is feeding into 20 HOR refineries and i keep having flow problems

and then going from HOR to Coke

some of the coke refineries keep running out of HORim losing like 6 refineries

OC pump to 20 HOR to 20 Coke.

[timber flare]

I take it you are dumping your poly?

Just checking so clogging that isnt the problem

[cerulean bobcat]

not backed up on either of the byproducts

[timber flare]

If you check the flow rate on the rig output its 600 ?

[cerulean bobcat]

mhmm ive checked a couple times

[timber flare]

Same with HOD aray ?

HOR

[cerulean bobcat]

give me a sec ill check again

[timber flare]

Are you manifolding them or 1:1 ing

[cerulean bobcat]

dont know the lingo in that what do you mean

[timber flare]

Well not that that matters

Are you combinging the pipes from your HOR or are you sending the output to the next refinery

[cerulean bobcat]

combining

ive even let the system back up and make all the imput and outputs are filled

and also tried emptying and letting it fillup naturally

some of the HOR outputs are clogged

tried repiping

and theyre just filling from flow in the pipe not empying out

and im using mk2 pipes

[timber flare]

HOR pipe output having to much is not a problem in the setup you are on about

Should look like this

Im also doing HOR x20

[cerulean bobcat]

yep

im gonna plonk down some big storage tanks

see if its just an issue of overflow

just for giggles

[timber flare]

Im doing fuel packages and last part of the maniforld looks like this

[cerulean bobcat]

that looks like mine but the very very end is like 6 from the end

[timber flare]

Going from high teens to low 40s

Leaky pipe ?

[cerulean bobcat]

i have them shaing 1 main pipe and splitting off to both sides

[timber flare]

I unno

[cerulean bobcat]

gimmie a sec ill give pictures

[cerulean bobcat]

https://i.imgur.com/LwGWcHa.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/eSmkeXS.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/oG75eqd.jpeg

sorry was trying to get my buffers

[frosty owl]

False
I wish it was true :/
It just seems unbalanced atm as you only save on some resources, but no "that much"
(In a "Max sink points" factory plan, introducing the use of plutonium power and fertile uranium over only uranium power gives <3% more points)

Iirc... It's surely less than 5%

[near lion]

How much nuts should I go to AI limiters? Should I use all those Refinery recipes for pure copper ingots, copper sheet and pure caterium? Or is standard enough? I will be using both pure nodes.

[oblique hollow]

Uhhh limiters are mostly used for either base supercomputers, control rods or smart splitters or

Soooo unless you go nuts on default supercomp and control rods, meh

Oh and for that one crystal oscillator alt

[analog loom]

Currently producing 381.92 screws, need a way to put them into 6 assemblers. Being produced using 10 constructors (underclocked). 3 assemblers require 86.033 screws each, 3 require 41.3 each. Have mk2 belts.

[wind spade]

manifold is your friend

[analog loom]

Mk2 belts.

[wind spade]

then direct input

clock screw constructors exactly as the next machine needs

[analog loom]

Constructors are clocked to what they currently need to be

All at 95.48%. I don’t have the slugs to overclock them for direct input

[wind spade]

if it's over 100%, you make two of them and underclock them 🤷‍♂️

[analog loom]

Might work, I dont know if i have the space

[wind spade]

you have whole map in your disposal, there's no way you'll run out of space 😛

[analog loom]

Yes but i must make look nice

[wind spade]

I'd postpone that after you make it work 🙂

[hazy saffron]

function > form

[wind spade]

so that you know the space it takes and you won't run into issues 🙂

[timber flare]

This is MATH AND META "kicks down cliff" XD

[analog loom]

10110101 better?

[wind spade]

I think the point is that here we don't care about looks but about functionality 😛

[analog loom]

yea i know was just playin.

[frosty owl]

@ mod for a new channel "Math and Architecture"

[analog loom]

Lol

[frosty owl]

I finally have some nice screens for radiation (balanced radioactive inputs, so minimum possible for meta recipes)

Uranium Fuel Rods manufacturers (left) and Uranium Cells Manufacturers (right)
Barely any radiation. Can't feel it unless you try enough.

Non-Fissile Uranium blenders (right), radiation similar to the Uranium processing.
Plutonium Pellets accellerators are quite radioactive. Still, the radiation bubble is less than their own footprint.
Plutonium Cells assemblers are nearly as radioactive, but still quite manageable.
The blob on the left is due to a drone bringing in Uranium.

Close up of the radiation for the first 3 plutonium steps

And finally: Plutonium Rods manufacturers... Radiation level:

[analog loom]

number of coal plants that can be powered by 1 pure node?

[wicked tinsel]

this depends what belts and miners you have i guess

one plant eats 15 coal

for example, assuming mk2 miner and mk3 belt -> 240 coal, 16 generators

[analog loom]

so mk1 miner and mk2 belts gives me 120 coal and 8 gens, which will require 3 water extractors, correct?

[hazy saffron]

yes

ratio of water extractors to coal generators is 3:8

[near lion]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Coal_Generator?so=search#100%_Miner

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/satisfactory_gamepedia_en/images/1/1b/Coal_Generator_Schematic.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/659?cb=20210729150625

[wind spade]

or my favourite:

  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
  G  G  G  G

[near lion]

whats E?

[wind spade]

extractor

[hazy saffron]

extractor

[near lion]

oh yeah 😄

[wind spade]

first 😛

[near lion]

I see his message as first

[wind spade]

refresh discord 😛

[hazy saffron]

nope, what I see is the only thing that matters

[hazy saffron]

greeny beat me by 0.013 seconds

[oblique hollow]

[timber flare]

I just took a seriuos look at the recyled plastic and rubber recipies.

[thorny iron]

Greeny first

[timber flare]

Cant you just do the diluted fuel HOR thing to get stupid amount of fuel and then get a stupid amout fo petrochemicals by looping that

Im thinking of just puoring all my residual polymer into rubber and then pulling that into plastic with fuel

And then pouring half of that plastic into another array of recycled rubber and returning half of that

[oblique hollow]

the loop's limit is the amount of fuel you make

[timber flare]

Ye sems cool

[oblique hollow]

but in general: if you use both recycled recipes with each other, its 1 to 1 fuel to rubber/plastic

[near lion]

I turn oil into plastic and HOR and rubber and HOR. Then I turn HOR into fuel and take part of plastic and rubber to recycled plastic/rubber recipes.

[oblique hollow]

or just feed the recycled plastic/rubber recipes into each other, the outcome is the same

[near lion]

I have around 300 plastic and rubber / min without any byproducts

[timber flare]

Isnt the HOR alt way better when it comes to crude oil processing compaired to the other options ?

[oblique hollow]

yep

[timber flare]

pog

[oblique hollow]

HOR alt + diluted fuel + recycled is meta and broken af

[near lion]

I wish it would work like that IRL. Doubling the amount of fuel just by adding water lol

[hazy saffron]

it does work that way

source: am engineer

[noble timber]

You can turn residue into synthetic fuel but i'm not sure if it doubles 😦

[oblique hollow]

Irl you mean?

Anyway, diluted fuel is just either steam or hydrocracking of basically vacuum gas oil

[noble timber]

yes

[vapid gorge]

Yes the super efficient loops means you get 3 plastic/rubber per 1 crude.

[cloud swan]

is this a good way to convert 3 inputs into 2 outputs?

[snow dove]

You just do, a merger and a splitter, merger merges 3 into one, that goes into splitter that splits it into 2.

Smaller footprint, accomplishes the same goal.

[frosty owl]

Halves the throughput

[snow dove]

True, only works if you need 780 or less of something.

[frosty owl]

It can be good enough depending on what you need it for.
The most ideal solution would add overflow connections between both the left and right belts (after the mergers) to allow for all the inputs to be spread between the 2 outputs

[snow dove]

Assuming inputs A and C are consistent and equal, you wouldn't have to worry about the variability on input B

[snow dove]

Not disagreeing with you just adding on

[frosty owl]

If A and C are consistent, the "crossover overflow" would be superfluous

[snow dove]

Assuming A and C are max lines

Oh wait nvm

I read your msg wrong

[snow dove]

Us this if you need >780 , use mine if you need less than 780

[cloud swan]

the input is at 1500/min so 1 belt wouldnt be enough

[snow dove]

Yeah yours work work great for that

[cloud swan]

my organized mess

[snow dove]

This is me, but with pipes

[frosty owl]

||"Just" use one belt per assembler to clean up the beltwork ||

[cloud swan]

how?

[frosty owl]

If you merge the items in the right ratio (eg: merging machines with the right clocks), you can feed the resulting belt directly to the assembler (or split it to multiple assblers if throughout allows it)

Pros: more compact beltwork, load-balanced behaviour
Cons: more complex design, needs reliable inputs (and output must be sinked/consumed to prevent clogs)

Example with HMFs (manufacturer at 100%, inputs provided by machines clocked accordingly) https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/553550313533997057/882159021841342534/Screenshot20210831-07330200000.png

[hazy saffron]

This screenshot straight up looks like something from promotional material

[vapid gorge]

Sushi balancing looks very pretty. But is a self made hell 😛

I assume Ven hates himself. Sushi balancing is his penance

For whatever his crimes are

[hazy saffron]

Sushi manifolds are already nearly perfect

I couldn't imagine trying to ruin them by making them more complex

[analog loom]

sushi manifolds?

[hazy saffron]

Using smart splitters to split items off a single conveyor into the inputs of machines

[vapid gorge]

Don't. Don't get yourself drawn into this nightmare

[hazy saffron]

It's not a nightmare

It's glorious

[vapid gorge]

Sushi balancing is diff to sushi manifolds XD

[hazy saffron]

I want sushi now

[analog loom]

i dont understand

[vapid gorge]

OK quick summary

[frosty owl]

I did use it as some kind of "single belt feed promo"

[hazy saffron]

Single belt with four items going down it; smart splitters sorting items off belt into the four inputs of a manufacturer

Each splitter handles a different item type

Has the result of making everything neater and more compact at the expensive of being really easy to break if you set it up wrong

[vapid gorge]

There's 2 main ways of feeding machines

1. manifold, where everythign will balance itself out over time

2. load balancing - where you set up a complex belt spliter system to bring the precise number of items a machine per minute

SUSHI prefix- if your belt is suhi that means it's a belt of mixed items.

Sushi fold (manifold) carries multiple items on a belt with smart spliters feeding to each input and sending the over flow

Sushi BALANCE means that a precise number of each product at the right timing enters 1 input on a machine.

For example feeding a manufacturer 4 different inputs on one belt w/o it getting clogged

[analog loom]

how do you do the balance then

sushi balance i mean

[frosty owl]

BuT sPlItTiNg ThE iTeMs AgAiN is A wAsTe Of SpLiTtErS aNd BeLtS

[hazy saffron]

Conveyor trickery

[vapid gorge]

A lot of complex planning and production control

[hazy saffron]

If anything it's a waste of space and time

Resources are infinite; time and space are not

[vapid gorge]

Technically there is infinite space and time as well XD

[analog loom]

i mean time is nearly infinite

[hazy saffron]

Not in the context of a person's lifespan and the area available in game

[frosty owl]

I'm not following
Sushifolds are easier and faster to make than load-balanced sushi. But the latter takes less space

[vapid gorge]

Just show this poor person a pic of one of your 4 input manufacturers being fed by 1 belt already XD

[hazy saffron]

I'm talking sushi manifolds vs normal manifolds

Sushi manifolds condense all inputs into one set of conveyors instead of 2-4

[vapid gorge]

I'm kinda ok with sushi manifolds. I won't touch load balancing

[hazy saffron]

I have some load balancing going on but not enough to matter

2:2 and another spot using a mk3 conveyor as a rate limiter

[frosty owl]

Programmable splitters allow to split a mixed belt into more belts with the same ratio of items on them. Eg: mix rods and reinforced plates in the right amount, then split the belt to different assemblers

[analog loom]

ah i see. i don't think i've made it to programmable ones just yet

[hazy saffron]

I have like 300 smart splitters that need replaced with programmable ones and no motivation to do it

[frosty owl]

Ah, gotcha. My previous comment was about how smart- splitting the items after you merged then in the right ratio is "a waste of splitters" 😆

[hazy saffron]

Yeah, and I commented on how splitters are theoretically infinite

[analog loom]

what did you use 300 splitters on

[hazy saffron]

Exaggeration

[frosty owl]

Just don't build smart splitters

[hazy saffron]

But a sorting system I can occasionally dump my inventory into

[analog loom]

how many items can a programmable splitter work with?

[hazy saffron]

Right = item + center = overflow makes for a lot of stuck product in

64 to each output

[analog loom]

so 192?

[hazy saffron]

Yeah

[frosty owl]

... One factory?
#screenshots message

[hazy saffron]

At a max rate of 780/min

[analog loom]

total or per output

[frosty owl]

Note: sushi-load-balancing is sadly limited to 480/min inputs 😭

[vapid gorge]

total since there's only 1 input

[analog loom]

ah yea

[hazy saffron]

Programmable splitter only has one input lmao

[analog loom]

780 is max belt speed then? i wouldnt know, never made it that far

[hazy saffron]

You can define up to 64 rules per output

Vs smart splitter allowing one rule per output

My need for them is because overflow on smart splitter does not qualify "any undefined" with it

Which I find stupid

[analog loom]

so why would you use programmable splitter for a sorting system?

oh

[hazy saffron]

You can set it to filter out a list of items to an output rather than just a single items

For example; dump slugs into sorting system -> they get sorted out and set to a factory that processes them into shards then returned to the sorting system

[frosty owl]

Don't get me started on that....
I wish they upped the overflow buffer to 9 items
I thought using "any undefined+overflow" would have been enough to assure an output of "MK/min" from a belt, but 3 items in the buffer can easily be too few to sustain the output properly :/

[hazy saffron]

I can do that with three smart splitters or one programmable splitter

[analog loom]

if it can't have the collection automated, i tend not to create a factory for them. with the exception of a small constructor setup to dump foliage into early game

[hazy saffron]

I'm just tired of dumping tools into my sorting system and having to find what splitter they got stuck jn

[analog loom]

do you not have a sink at the end of your sorter?

[hazy saffron]

It's three constructors, three smart splitters and three mergers

Hardly complex and unworthy of automating at any point

[frosty owl]

I know the feeling.
I always make use of any undefined 😅 😆

[hazy saffron]

Any undefined if it works the way I think it does would break my sorting system

[analog loom]

so if a storage fills up, will the items become stuck if any undefined is used instead or overflow?

[hazy saffron]

^

Unless that's not how it works

But that's how I think it works; I've never tested it

[analog loom]

yucky

[hazy saffron]

I'm just fairly certain stacking any undefined and overflow for the applicable output on a programmable splitter will do what I need it to do

Rip your link lmao

[frosty owl]

Reddit is bad apparently

[hazy saffron]

Reddit is bad

[analog loom]

i mean some reddit can be lol

[hazy saffron]

Did you not know this?

[frosty owl]

I'm more annoyed by having lost 3 lines of text, honestly

[hazy saffron]

Literally the mos eisley of the internet

[analog loom]

cesspool

[frosty owl]

That's how it works. "Any undefined" and "overflow" do not overlap

[hazy saffron]

Sad

They should overlap

I wonder if I set the left output to none of that'll change anything

[analog loom]

programmable you said does stack them if you want to?

[hazy saffron]

Yeah, but this is the context of smart spliffers

Your options are overflow and any undefined

What I want is overflow to imply any undefined

[frosty owl]

Maybe not the best screenshot to show it, but that the best I have atm 😅
This sort of "clean" beltwork is why I like sushi-balancing so much (also, low number of belts AND extremely low number of belts compared to traditional balancing)
(Only machine-level beltwork in picture)

[hazy saffron]

For example center is overflow, right is concrete

Anything that is concrete should go right and anything that isn't concrete should go center

[analog loom]

will any undefined not act that way though? isn't it the overflow of all items except those you want going another direction?

[hazy saffron]

Any undefined will back up the entire sorting system if one of the output containers becomes full

[analog loom]

i see

[hazy saffron]

Overflow allows excess material to be pushed down to the end

[analog loom]

does it matter the order you place items in an output for a programmable spliffer?

[hazy saffron]

Nope

[analog loom]

so there is a way to do what you want, you just have to wait for more end game materials

[hazy saffron]

Nah, I have to wait for motivation

[frosty owl]

And no, adding an item multiple times per output does not change the ratio at which its split

Of only it was that simple...

[analog loom]

i was thinking more in terms of stacking overflow with undefined in the programmable, if the overflow would override the undefined or vice versa

[frosty owl]

They can't overlap

If you send both on one output, you're effectively sending everything on that output (assuming the other outputs are backing up)

"Any undefined" contains literally everything that isn't defined by another rule, excluding overflow (overflow is not an "item")

[hazy saffron]

Does it? I feel like it should back up if the output container is full as the item is defined buy just cannot be output

[analog loom]

so when you stack them, it essentially first applies the undefined then the overflow once the container fills?

[hazy saffron]

Ah, an edit lmao

Discord messages make the best canvas

[frosty owl]

Let me give an example to clarify this.

I have a MK5 belt carrying multiple items, but need it to output 60 X/min.
I put a smart splitter on the belt, set for X on the right and center for overflow, output on the right with a MK1 belt. Result: the splitter tries to fill up the belt, fills up on items and keeps overflowing the items in the order in which they come to the center. If X may lack on the belt for a while, the splitter may not have any stockpile of X to give to the MK1 belt since it'll hog any item in its overflow buffer

Of you replace the smart splitter with a programmable one and add "any undefined" to the center, the splitter will only store item X, providing a more stable output

[frosty owl]

Is this you waiting for messages to drop?

[hazy saffron]

If C is set to concrete, B is set to overflow Non-concrete Items get held in buffer until more concrete comes to push them out.

B is set to any undefined, items that aren't concrete exit out side B, concrete exits out side A still. if A has no room for exist, backups happen and the rest of the sorting system ceases function

If the splitter is programmable rather than smart; B can be set to overflow and any undefined anything that isn't concrete gets out out side B while concrete gets routed to side A until side A can no longer accept output then it's routed to side B

Pretend all those side As are side Cs

I can't be bothered to edit the message

I would also like to point out that my phone makes the annoying drawing sounds even when muted

[vapid gorge]

I mean if you set up some automate dcrafting into containers while you go out and build/explore you'll have more stuff to work with when you get back?

[analog loom]

Yea, i usually just store items in their respective factories, but once I get further in game, i usually create a storage facility around my HUB and run a train through it to sort and store items from all the factories

im not much of an explorer though unfortunately, im lazy like that

[bold fox]

if you have a pump going down a vertical pipe at the top, it will be able to pump stuff all the way back up another pipe
thereby allowing you to use a mk1 pipe to pump liquid as high as you want without needing more power

[vapid gorge]

That's not quite accurate. If you have fluid reaching a certain elevation and flowing out, along that manifold you'll have at least that height of 'lift'

But you have to get the fuild there first. So either the source is at a high point or you'll have to probably have multiple pumps getting it there in the first place

[bold fox]

I have the line it's moving providing the fluid

the patent:

[vapid gorge]

I guess if you have some fluid in there in the first place? Seeing any potential backflows would be interesting as well as what it does to max throughput

[bold fox]

in theory you could use a valve to limit direction

at which point it should halve the max throughput

[vapid gorge]

'in theory' with pipes is dangerous XD I don't think you'd be able to do a max through put 600 though

or 300 with mk1

See if yo ucan set up a packager and sink with the fluid and what you can get a flow rate per min rated by a sink?

[vapid gorge]

Ok it's possible valves don't interupt headlift, so you MIGHT be able to put a valve at the bottom from where the pump is merging back in and set the flowrate to 0.

It could trick the system

[bold fox]

well where would the backflow go?

[vapid gorge]

There wouldn't be. The mk1 pump at the top would stil produce headlift with 0 flow rate and it would just all go down the main pipe away

Try it out. This might be a thing the devs missed out on in their pipe design

AND... if the zero flow rate valve doesn't halt headlift that should give you max flow rate

Just give me an accreditation for the design edit if it works XD

[bold fox]

well I only have a single oil pump and tier 2 pipes so I can't even reach half flow rate

[vapid gorge]

Pure node hits 600 overcocked, but you could still test it with a mk1 pipe first at 300 with a normal node

You'd have to set up a packager sink system to really do a hard test on flow though I think

[oblique hollow]

Just do a single mk 2

They do 600 fine as long as there are no junctions

[vapid gorge]

We were spitballing how to make a sketch above work

[oblique hollow]

What exactly is that supposed to do

[vapid gorge]

He wants to see if he can set up the pump to move fluid down and give headlift all the way back up using only 1 pump

[oblique hollow]

You can do one better and simply use a water tower for 0 pumps

Full tower at the top, valve set to 0 (safer is 1) at the bottom

Then it moves all that up and you just merge the freshly moved water into the buffer to refill

[vapid gorge]

Ah well there you go, the zero valve trick does work

[oblique hollow]

Yeah, if it doesnt want to, set the flow to 1 and just refill the buffer

[stark bronze]

It's the biomass burner all over again

[vapid gorge]

'you kids get off of ma biomass!'

[bold fox]

I don't have that unlocked

[bold fox]

and it does work

[rugged fjord]

Random question for the MK2 Pipe bug. We know that junctions make them lose capacity so they can't do 600 a minute, but has anyone experimented if there would be a difference in the loss of throughput of placing the junctions on an already existing pipe vs placing the junctions first and then connecting them? I was gunna mess with it tonight out of curiosity, but was wondering if someone had done it before already. Pipes always seem to be buggier if you don't preplace the junctions

[frosty owl]

It doesn't make a difference, both imo and afaik ^^

[oblique hollow]

What do you mean you dont have that unlocked. You have a buffer

Water towers are built with buffers

Dont even need a valve for a basic water tower

[bold fox]

what's a water tower?

[versed violet]

a cheat to have headlift without using pumps

[bold fox]

ah

so this isn't useful

[versed violet]

it is, if you want to save power for pumps

[bold fox]

but wouldn't water towers save more power?

[frosty owl]

It's just an "evolution" of what you were trying to do, in a way ^^

[bold fox]

sounds neat, albeit expensive

[hazy saffron]

Not really a cheat and it still requires pumps

A water tower is just using physics to get rid of some pumps

[bold fox]

ah

so for intermediate distances, water tower is better

for larger distances, the second pipe might be better

[hazy saffron]

More for factory use, put a water tower on the roof and you never have to worry about headlift again

Plus you get a dank water tower on the roof

[bold fox]

ahh

[hazy saffron]

It doesn't increase flowrate

It just makes headlift less of a concern

[bold fox]

mk

[ebon crater]

basically you only worry about pipes to get water to the tower, then when you build factory you just let the water drop back down

therefore you eliminate the need of pumps inside your factyory

[bold fox]

ohhh

that makes a lot of sense

so basically, a water tower just consolidates your pumping so that you can get everything from below and not worry abt headlift?

[hazy saffron]

Yes

[bold fox]

mk

so then a combination of the two would be the optimal solution

[hazy saffron]

You don't really even need a fluid buffer on top of the water tower; it just looks better with one

[bold fox]

one pump and you don't need to worry abt headlift for the entire factory

[hazy saffron]

It'll also help fill new pipe additions in the factory

But that's minor

One or two pumps yes

Depends on how high you put the water tower

[bold fox]

I mean using my system in combination with a water tower

then you can get oil or whatever from low down all around your factory via a single pump

[bold fox]

help fill new people additions?

[hazy saffron]

Pipe additions lmao

Typos and autocorrect do not go well together

[bold fox]

ah

that makes significantly more sense

[hazy saffron]

Yeah

[noble timber]

Nah it's absolutely a cheat

You only need 1 set of pumps for effectively unlimited pipes

[hazy saffron]

It's an actual game mechanic based off how physics actually works IRL

It's not a cheat

[noble timber]

Surely in real life, you can't provide a head lift to however many pipes you want just off of one set?

[hazy saffron]

You can

And it's done all the time

[ebon crater]

have you ever seen a water tower IRL?

[noble timber]

Can't say I have

[ebon crater]

damn thats really suprising

[noble timber]

We don't really have water towers here

[ebon crater]

the whole point is using one mega pump to supply water to everyone(and partially water storage, AFAIK)

[ebon crater]

intresting

[noble timber]

I live in the highlands, my water comes directly from a loch

[hazy saffron]

The entire towns water pressure is based off that one structure

[ebon crater]

ah, ok

[noble timber]

I know how they work, using one/multiple massive pumps but the physics doesn't make sense to me how you can lift basically the entire worlds amount of water off of a few pumps in the game

Surely it would just run out of enough energy to push it all up if you have too much

[hazy saffron]

not really

the water tower doesn't provide headlift above the tower itself

[ebon crater]

it does because its one pump pumping 600/min vs 60 pumps pumping 10/min. it woulnt be 60 pipes of 600/min

[ebon crater]

yes, but suposeby mk2 pipe are powerfull enuogh

[noble timber]

Obviously it works, I just can't get my head around how one pump has seemingly unlimited energy

[hazy saffron]

the pump doesn't have unlimited energy

[noble timber]

You could hook up every single bit of water on the map to one water tower and it would work fine

[hazy saffron]

you can't

because the pipe only puts out 600 m3/m

the pipe flowrate limitation is still in effect

[noble timber]

You can just keep adding pipes though?

[hazy saffron]

that doesn't work

that's literally not how this game works at all

your fluid buffer has one input and one output

the most you can get out of it is 600 m3/m continuous or 1200 m3/m burst (bad method for factory management)

if you have consumption of more than that you need a second water tower

[ebon crater]

no, it has arround (1000kg*volume of 50m of pipes)*9.81 newtons of force. not infinie

[noble timber]

Interesting... I saw a guys setup not too long ago and he had about 20 pipes connected to one water tower and it was all working perfectly

[hazy saffron]

how much water were the machines connected to the pipes consuming?

[noble timber]

Each pipe was connected to one water extractor running at 100%

[hazy saffron]

you can feed 20 pipes off one water tower if the flowrate through the 20 pipes is 30 m3/minute each

I'm willing to bet there was more than one fluid buffer in the water tower in that case

[noble timber]

Each pipe was full at 300 but since he had one pipe branching off connecting to the water tower and the whole system was all connected it seems the headlift just worked for all of them

[noble timber]

There wasn't one at all

Just a simple pipe going up and back down in a loop with 2 pumps to get it to the level he needed it

Then he connected that to a junction which connected both ends of the network to the "tower"

[hazy saffron]

🤔

[ebon crater]

huh?

sounds like a funky mess

[noble timber]

I found a video of a smaller scale version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTIQggZaJf8

[hazy saffron]

yes, that is how a water tower works

[noble timber]

So this design has essentially unlimited scalability

[hazy saffron]

it's not providing endless energy

[noble timber]

I still don't understand how not though 😂

[hazy saffron]

because if the water hits the point where the pump is unable to provide more headlift the pump will turn off

[noble timber]

One pump is made to push one pipe of fluid upwards, yet that same pump can also send 100 pipes worth of fluid upwards

[hazy saffron]

because physics

[ebon crater]

its still pushing the same ammount of water, just splits

[hazy saffron]

I think you're expecting it to do something it physically cannot do

[noble timber]

One pipe of 300/min is less than 100 pipes of 300/min

[ebon crater]

you phisicaly cannot push 3000 water thrugh one pipe

[noble timber]

From what I understand of what you said earlier, Amber, the tower can only provide a head lift up to the limitation of the flow rate of the pipe?

[noble timber]

This guy just pushed 1200 water through one tower

[hazy saffron]

flowrate doesn't matter for headlift

[noble timber]

What were you meaning by this then?

[ebon crater]

300 water gets pushed up by a pump. that pipe is split after the water tower, into multiple pipes, of a fraction of 300, still using one pump

[hazy saffron]

I'm drawing a diagram, hold on

[noble timber]

That pump's head lift is being applied to x4 more water though?

[ebon crater]

that a mk2 pipe with 600 water going into a water tower will feed 20 pipes of 30 water/min

20*30 is still 600

not x4

[noble timber]

Yes, but from that it makes it seem like one water tower can only lift up liquid up to the limit of a mk2 pipe

Which that video clearly shows otherwise

[hazy saffron]

I'm getting there

[ebon crater]

i cant watch the vid rn so i cant actually ssay its wrong

[hazy saffron]

hold on

[ebon crater]

but the maths dont check out

[noble timber]

Basically, he has one tower with 2 mk2 pumps and a mk1 pipe going in a loop. He has 4 water extractors all overclocked to 250% to give 300 water per minute 1 mk1 pipe each for his wet concrete setup. That water tower is connected to the network of each of those 4 pipes of 300 water per minute each and it is able to push all of the water up.

[ebon crater]

is it using 2 pumps?

[noble timber]

Two pumps on the tower to get the water up to the height he needs it

[ebon crater]

xactly

4 pipe of 300 is 1200

wch is a multiple of 600

so hes got 2 pimps for 2 mk2 pipes

[noble timber]

But that one tower is pushing up 1200 liquid per minute despite the tower itself only pumping 300 water the minute

[ebon crater]

still limited to the 600/min per pump

[noble timber]

He isn't using mk2 pipes

He is using 4 mk1 pipes

[ebon crater]

alright i need to watch this when i get home

[noble timber]

All connected to one tower

[ebon crater]

or amber can help us out

[ebon crater]

whats the input flowrate?

[hazy saffron]

this is your basic water tower design; this supports a flow rate of 300 m3/m because of how it's designed.

pretend that top part of the arch extends up 50 or so meters and the vertical bit on the right side goes further;

the water pumped through will equalize out to the height provided by the water tower, no higher.

Anything lower will get increased water pressure and try to force the water higher at any ends it has; ideally these would terminate at machines rather than just be vertical pipes

now, for what the guy in that video is doing; he's doing a different design that does not care about flow rate; it only cares about water pressure

[noble timber]

Technically 1200 since the network is all connected but mk1 pipes can only take 300

[hazy saffron]

pressure and flowrate are somewhat independent of each other

[noble timber]

I understand how this works

[ebon crater]

because of the nature of a fluid buffer it has 1 input meaning max it can output is 600

[noble timber]

I just don't understand how you can have 100+ pipes running off of one tower using his method

[noble timber]

No fluid buffer involved

[hazy saffron]

water pressure is independent of flowrate

[noble timber]

Would you not begin to run out of pressure though as you add in more water to push upwards?

[hazy saffron]

nope; it's the elevation of the water tower that give the pressure. not the pump

the pump simply keeps the water tower full

[noble timber]

So despite the volume of water the pressure remains the same throughout the system

[hazy saffron]

yes

30 meters of elevation increases water pressure by ~44 PSI

[noble timber]

Right.

[hazy saffron]

anything below that should be ~44 PSI

[noble timber]

You can tell I did a chemistry degree and not a physics one 😂

[hazy saffron]

he's achieving keeping the system pressurized with the tanks; not increasing flowrate

this doesn't have a practical benefit in-game once the pipes are full

[ebon crater]

so thre is not truly 1200 water/min

[noble timber]

So his design would break if you allow the pipes to fill up then?

[hazy saffron]

however; where he does have as a benefit is no need to worry about headlift; water in a U shaped pipe will equalize with surface elevation

no, the pipes remain full

[ebon crater]

but why is pressure usefull?

it has no ingame use AFAIK

[hazy saffron]

it's not; the headlift is

[ebon crater]

so the entire system this video shows is pointless

[noble timber]

Ok, I am just going to accept it works and move on with my life

[ebon crater]

but does it?

[noble timber]

No because it still works

[ebon crater]

it supplies 1200 water/min using one pump?

[hazy saffron]

it doesn't supply 1200 water/min

[noble timber]

It is all one network so the pressure it distributed to each pipe

[hazy saffron]

it just keeps the system pressurized and allows you to build new consumers at higher elevations without needing to add additional pumps

[noble timber]

And each pipe gets the head lift benefit from the one pump

[hazy saffron]

the water works to equalize all elevation of its surface

[ebon crater]

finlzz seems to think so

[noble timber]

No I don't

[ebon crater]

so its just a water tower

[hazy saffron]

yes

it's not providing any game breaking benefits; it's just keeping the pipes full

[ebon crater]

i say "it doesent supply 1200 water per min"
i then say "so its pointless"
you respon by saying it does

[hazy saffron]

I didn't say it does; I said it doesn't

it provides headlift and water pressure

[ebon crater]

what i said is for finlzz

[hazy saffron]

ah

[noble timber]

You said it was pointless because Amber told you pressure doesn't have a use

[ebon crater]

the way it was explained made it sound so complicated haha

[ebon crater]

yes, because if hes trying to get 1200 water/min and he doesent, then its pointless

and if pressure has no use, its another reason its pointless

[hazy saffron]

if you dump water into the left pipe up to the purple line then open the valve the water will equalize in the pipes to roughly the red line area (probably lower actually)

[noble timber]

I don't think you are understanding how it works

[hazy saffron]

if you keep dumping water into the left side up to the purple line; the right side will eventually reach that height but go no higher

the pressure at the bottom of the U will increase as a result

[noble timber]

He is still getting that 1,200 water pumped to the elevation he needs it to be at because the head lift and pressure from the pipe are equalizing the whole system.

[ebon crater]

💀

[ebon crater]

only if you use more than one mk2 pipe, using more than one pump

[hazy saffron]

yes, water pressure can move between two pipes without flow of a substance

[noble timber]

He is using mk1

[ebon crater]

4 mk1 pipes 2 mk2 pipes same thing

[hazy saffron]

the fact that he's using mk 1 is weird to me

[ebon crater]

yes cuz you could use 2 mk2 pipes and then only need 2 pumps

[noble timber]

They are all connected into the same network so the pressure is equal in all the pipes

[noble timber]

I use mk1 all the time just because I don't want to take the risk with mk2's

[hazy saffron]

explaining hydrodynamics is a lot harder than I thought it would be lmao

[ebon crater]

irl or ingame?

[hazy saffron]

both

[noble timber]

That wouldn't be a water tower in that case then

Simple just adding pumps to separate pipes

[ebon crater]

bc irl pressure is depicted by the quantity of something within a volume so you would need more water compressed into one area for higher pressure

thats how pumping air into a tire makes it harder

there is a flow of air through the tire to increase pressure

same as adding water to a pipe

some of it gets compressed, leaving space for more

[noble timber]

Don't think that's entirely correct?

[ebon crater]

im srsly not understanding you at all

[ebon crater]

*into, not through

[noble timber]

Air pressure is the individual air particles hitting off of their container

[hazy saffron]

yes, adding more substance to a container increases the pressure

but that's not the only way to increase pressure in a container

[noble timber]

Air pressure isn't created by a flow of air

[ebon crater]

more force uppon an object will also compress it

[ebon crater]

its created by the addition of air into a given volume, the change of that given volume, or an increase in pressure

[noble timber]

Because there are more particles to hit off of the inside of the container

[ebon crater]

to add air, you need to flow it through something for it to reach somewhere, especially under pressure

[hazy saffron]

consider heating up the tire instead

[noble timber]

Well that gives the particles more energy

This means they are bouncing off the container more often and with more force, increasing pressure

[ebon crater]

more kinetic energy yea

[noble timber]

Like in a chemical reaction you can increase the concentration of reactants to give a higher chance of collisions or you can increase the temperature to give the particles more kinetic energy and get them over the activation energy barrier to increase the chance of successful collisions

But the flow of air doesn't directly create pressure. If you have a wheel full of air it isn't exactly flowing anywhere

[ebon crater]

Not inside the tire, inside the tube going to the tire

Aniways this so off topic so ima go home, watch this video, then continue with my understanding of reality

[hazy saffron]

water go brrrrr

[noble timber]

I now want to play a game with completely realistic water dynamics

I don't think such a thing exists though.

[hazy saffron]

Satisfactory is fairly realistic if a bit buggy

also, with the tire analogy; you're changing the density of the air in the tire; not the volume

(usually, if the tire is completely flat you're also changing the volume but that's kind of an edge case)

pressure is a function of density but I don't think the game takes that into account

I suppose I can't use this area of foundation for anything; I've used it for like five different demos today

[ebon crater]

i said that, pressure

[ebon crater]

right, but since you said both, when i asked if the flow of water is not needed for increase of pressure, i thought that was wrong

so yes irl, no ingame

[hazy saffron]

the game does take into account pressure

there's a video available with an explanation of how water flow in the game works

[ebon crater]

no, im taking about density, like you said

[hazy saffron]

given viscosity is taken into account; density probably is too

[ebon crater]

i doubt the game makes it so you can shove more quantity of water into one area

[hazy saffron]

i don't think there's an easy way to determine that

because in the 40 PSI 1m3 water is still the same volume as 20 PSI 1m3 water

[ebon crater]

yes, but it seems doubtful that that would be considered into the games programming

[ebon crater]

yes, but 1m3 of water at 20psi is not the same at 40 psi

so if you pump 120 water at normal psi, then drop it down the tube, the volume might be less than 120 due to the fact of the water pressing onto the water below it, pressure wil be higher at bottom, therefore more dense at the bottom

[timber flare]

Petrochemicals are pog

[hazy saffron]

yes

[timber flare]

60 refs doing HOR 30 doing rubber from the poly 80 doing diluted fuel and 40 doing recycled plastic and rubber edit:fixed my numbers

All 100% OC

[vapid gorge]

as in they are running at 200%?

[timber flare]

Na unclocked

[vapid gorge]

Ah right. I built a 400+ refinery oil system. Then realised that I will overclock all refineries at a min of 225% or more now. TOO BIG

[frank mesa]

It's trivial at best....
Water at the bottom of a column 4km tall wil only compress 1.8% in volume for the same mass.

[ebon crater]

exactly, wich is why im saying that i doubht they implemented it in the game

[frank mesa]

Pretty sure they have foregone compressibility ingame

[vapid gorge]

Eh, they're nerds. They probably thought about it and tossed it out as tons of effort for not real use.

This isn't a fluid dynamics simulator

[frank mesa]

Adds a lot of complexity, not worth the CPU cycles

[shut solar]

hi

[frank mesa]

Even simple fluid dynamics are very complex (trust me I'm an engineer)

[vapid gorge]

probably only 2nd to thermodynamics?

[frank mesa]

Also pretty sure viscosity is not modelled, and neither laminar and turbulent flow

[frank mesa]

Pretty sure fluid dynamics is more complex than thermodynamics.
As fluid dynamics need thermodynamics to be included in determining the dynamics of fluids.

Can't get any more meta than this 🤪

[vapid gorge]

Hmmm so is fluid dynamics a subset of Thermo or the other way around? Since with thermo you need to take into account various matter states?

I mostly remember hating even touching on dealing with stellar internal mechanics

[frank mesa]

That's the funny paradox, the reverse statement is also true 😉

[frank mesa]

You can't do either without the other

[vapid gorge]

I'd argue most fluid situations you mostly care about the fluid matter state plus thermo parts?

How much do you deal with say... the pipe structure and it's attributes other than 'is it tough enough' ?

[frank mesa]

In most practical applications?

[vapid gorge]

yeah like standard practice? And would you say ... if you're doing a dam that considering the foundational structure and the pressures of the fluids being seperate components?

When you say fluid dynamics I mostly just think of 'the way it moves' rather than the surrounding structure

Philosophy + engineering. Perfect.

[frank mesa]

You check only the expected extremes, highest pressure at min and max temp.
Is the pipe strong enough to hold at max temp max pressure, and is the pipe not too brittle at min temp. And expansion and contraction at min and max, to make sure the pipe doesn't buckle or rips apart

You need to add a U bend every X length of pipe to accommodate for expansion and contraction

[vapid gorge]

ok so piping and structure seem very secondary

[ebon crater]

yeah isnt it one of the million dollar math questions?

[frank mesa]

How big this U bend needs to be depends on material, diameter, pressure, and ∆t

[vapid gorge]

That still sounds pretty secondary. Though it doesn't realy clarify if fluid is a subset of thermo or reverse XD

Maybe, in a general sense, fluid is the subset of thermo since thermo is ever present. And just the situational priority changes the perspective of importantce

[frank mesa]

That's the paradox, each is a subset of the other depending on where you started your calculations

[vapid gorge]

Yeah exactly. Matter as a spectrum overwhich thermo is a blanket covering it all

And we as people probably want to make sure we are dealing with as few matter states at any one point because our brains would explode

[frank mesa]

Water is a good example for this.
Water has 7 known Triple points, and probably more to be discovered.

Most other substances have only one triple point.

[vapid gorge]

Stop talking about god damned water and it's indescisive nature XD

Screw you h2o

[frank mesa]

😂

[ebon crater]

water kinda cool

[vapid gorge]

Not saying it's not cool. Just very annoying XD

[ebon crater]

yeah fr

[velvet urchin]

Is there a primer or a recent video explaining the recycled rubber/plastic loop. I am having difficulties wrapping my head around it.

[vapid gorge]

Not that I've seen. Are you just having issues figuring out how to start it?

[velvet urchin]

The flow of the thing yeah lol.

[vapid gorge]

Have you uesd this tool before ?https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[velvet urchin]

All the time, but when I load up the alts it doesn't use them in a loop. Or not a full loop. I see people talking about using HOR, then diluted then looping first.

And using overflows for output after the loop is started or something.

[vapid gorge]

ok well I can give yo ua brief break down. First I assume you have the alt recipes HOR, Blended Diluted Fuel and Recycled Rubber/Plastic?

[velvet urchin]

Yes.

[vapid gorge]

Ok so the way I approached it - going to skip over the basic steps since you seem with the general idea

there's a LOT of dependencies in the system and the tool doesn't deal with the best way to appraoch it becaues it's complicated

What you probably want to do is do the general HOR to Dilute F

What you probably want to do is turn the waste Polymer to Residual Rubber with a sink for the excess.
Use the Res Ruber as the 'seed' material to start the first Recycled Plastic with fuel.

Then you rinse repeat using the Recycled Plastic from the first itteration with more D fuel

The bits I've found more complicated is the logic logistics set up to produce the right number of plastic and rubber I need.

Spread sheets with numbers and creating a crude floor plan helps with that

[velvet urchin]

So output comes down to just how much fuel I shove into it since it is self sustaining.

[vapid gorge]

Well it's not self sustaining, your limiting factor is fuel to the end product. But basically you turn ALL the oil to HOR then D Fuel and then deal with the seed Res Rubber

You'll also want to do a lot of preplanning to how much flow you want from each pipe. Like you might want to make the recycled chunks be using 400 fuel pm to avoid throuput problems? I like going for 600 even though it's hard with pipes XD

But building a recyc plastic/rubber plant is a crash course in pipe mechanics. You learn a lot.

[velvet urchin]

I just finished 200 refineries for pure copper and steamed sheets.. rofl pipes are easy right now <@&673829841413603379>@ And I need to start planning the next diluted fuel gen array. Looks like I just need to stop thinking about it and plow into it.

Oh someone is actually an @ and _ ..

Ok thanks for information.

[vapid gorge]

No problem! But ... steamed sheets aren't as big a problem.

The issues with the recy system is that there's a bunch of dependencies you dont have with the copper. Water is easy and the sheets are just made as long as the pure copper is pumped

With recyc system you need to keep the fuel production going to feed the seed residual rubber, but if the seed residual gets clogged it stops the fuel.
If you don't produce enough seed rubber it doesn't consume the fuel, making LESS polymer to consume the fuel creating hiccups.

it's a problem

That's why you want a sink for excess residual rubber, then a buffer to store thousands of it pre starting it up, and THEN with the output plastic/rubber at the final part another sink on each line so that your plant never stutters. This is not a system you want turning on and off again if you ever want a reliable flow of product

There's also managing HOR to Fuel since the HOR outputs don't really mesh easily in numbers so merging and splitting THOSE pipes... .it's a lot

[round forum]

Things like this are why I have my nickname here.

[wind spade]

Have you used items per minute mode?

[velvet urchin]

I was using maximize.

I was also tired and forgot to put water into the inputs, so after I fixed that this morning it makes more sense.

[wind spade]

Maximise doesn't yet optimise for raw resources

To see the most optimal result, you need to switch to items/min

[velvet urchin]

What sort of ratio of oil:plastic/rubber?

It is using the loop for 675 plastic/rubber using 450 oil now.

[wind spade]

Best you can do is 1:3

[velvet urchin]

Ok thanks!

[timber flare]

Ye you do HOR alt then use all poly for rubber and rest to fuel for recyled recipies

[untold niche]

Math for enough nuke rods to run 50 nuke plants

[ornate shoal]

why did you choose 50?

[timber flare]

How many is max if you do mk3 miners at max overclock that doues something

(aka max possible belt speed)

[noble timber]

780/min

[timber flare]

I mean how many nukelar plants can you get based on the maximum amout of uranium from all uranium nodes on the map

[noble timber]

Using just Uranium fuel rods I believe it is roughly 250 reactors

[timber flare]

neat

Lets goo

Can a single drone station handle 780 units of uranium a min ?

[noble timber]

Sorry I was talking rubish

600 Uranium/min can run 30 reactors. Using all the uranium in the map you can make 105 reactors

[noble timber]

There are no pure uranium nodes

[timber flare]

Overclocked mediums do the same job

3mediums and 1 unpure right ?

[noble timber]

Yes

[timber flare]

So 780 * 3 + 750 * 1

[noble timber]

Max OC with a Mk3 miner on a normal nodes extracts 600 per minute

And 300 on an impure

[timber flare]

ah

600 * 3 + 300

2100

[noble timber]

Correct

[timber flare]

pog

[noble timber]

This is without using alts

If you use alts you can get 50.4 uranium fuel rods per minute which powers 252 reactors

You can then turn your waste into plutonium fuel rods to make even more power or sink them

[timber flare]

Ye sinking

[ornate shoal]

no, normally a drone station can do about 1.5 stacks/min

[worldly sparrow]

@wind spade @hazy saffron

[hazy saffron]

#screenshots would have been better but start by moving everything onto the top of foundations

it makes management of production lines so much easier

[worldly sparrow]

Oh my b and got ya

[wind spade]

Tho there's nothing wong in building off foundations

[worldly sparrow]

@wind spade @hazy saffron What do I do say if I want plates and also heavy plates? Do I just split the line 1 goes to storage 1 goes to another machine?

[wind spade]

I'd make one factory for plates, one for heavy

[worldly sparrow]

@wind spade coming from different iron veins?

[wind spade]

That depends how much you need and how much you produce lol

[torpid robin]

i need hmf's factory that produces like 400 in 30 minutes

[hazy saffron]

satisfactorytools.com can tell you what you need

[torpid robin]

okay

[snow dove]

Please put this in a spreadsheet.

[untold niche]

so i still have around half of the maps uranium left so if a update starts asking for it i have some left and its a nice round number

[untold niche]

not sure how all my notes are on paper

[ornate shoal]

i like greeny's tool more than spreadsheet. i have something like that currently for up to 90 reactors https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=qJeVFVp8OT1KV4zWBBxB

[frosty owl]

I don't have much experience with drones, but I stuck to 300/min per port (2 drones)

[frosty owl]

If you don't plan to overclock a lot and are interested in saving both resources and FPS, I suggest looking into the Fertile Uranium route for plutonium processing. It leaves you with less Uranium Rods and more plutonium rods, but requires less machines and resources (for the same amount of uranium processed)

Note: 610 GW of uranium power are enough for any maximized production including a good portion of overclock ed machines

[ornate shoal]

drone throughput is most dependant on your item stack size. with 500 stack size, drones can do 600+ p/min, but with small stacks like 200 their throughput is much smaller. about 300 seems right

this is when using 1 drone

[frosty owl]

1 drone was not enough for my 300 uranium node (from the north-west node to the oil area in the sea further South)

[ornate shoal]

it's possible, uranium only has stack size of 100

[hazy saffron]

for a single drone that would need to be a trip slightly over a minute in total length

so yeah, not really possible

item capacity / round trip time = throughput
900 / X = 780
X comes out to ~1.15 minutes

landing and takeoff animations take 51 seconds each; totaling 1.7 minutes on their own

so ~0.65 minutes negative for that

[timber flare]

I tend to do without overclocks on anything that isnt a harvested. Just kinda looking for a big goal to work towards. And uing all the uranium in the map eficciently sems like a nice one

My frist "big" project was processing all the oil on the north coast. I did that so next big is nuklear

Untill then i have some infrastructure to build. Supercomuters and heatsinks and the like

[frosty owl]

I haven't said anything about not using all uranium efficiently 😉
If you don't plan for extensive overclock, the "fertile uranium" recipe just makes (arguably) more sense than other plutonium recipes: you won't need all the uranium power anyway and you'd save on both resources and machine count

Note: Fertile uranium route produces less uranium rods, more plutonium rods, consumes less resources and requires less buildings

[fierce cypress]

can someone double check this for me im really tired, let me know if you need any other info (blue = conveyer direction | red = input/output amounts)

[frosty owl]

That works 👍

[fierce cypress]

great thanks

[edgy nova]

Oily Computers

A while ago I saw a number of recipes that used oil based products, which could be used to make computers. So I thought “Why not see how much I can make just by using oil”. Here is a comparison of the basic recipes, vs using alt recipes to only use liquid gold and alien gold.

Basic recipes

Base resources per minute:

• ⁠490 Copper
• ⁠870 Crude Oil
• ⁠130 Iron Ore

Production per minute:

• ⁠10 Computers
• ⁠193.33 Fuel (byproduct)

Power: 1713.466 MW

Oily Computers

Base resources per minute:

• ⁠112 Caterium Ore
• ⁠320 Crude Oil
• ⁠758.66 Water

Production per minute:

• ⁠10 Computers

Power: 1865.499 MW

Alt Recipes:

• ⁠Caterium Computer
• ⁠Diluted Fuel
• ⁠Electrode Circuit Board
• ⁠Heavy Oil Residue
• ⁠Pure Caterium Ingot
• ⁠Recycled Plastic
• ⁠Recycled Rubber

If you consider water ‘free’, you are reducing oil consumption by 550/min, and converting 490 copper and 130 iron into 112 Caterium. I think this is a worth while trade off, and with the fused quick wire recipe it is possible to reduce the Caterium requirement at the cost of adding copper. Part of the idea was simplifying the resources needed, which is why I have not done that in the base plan.

I think the 150 MW increase in power consumption is a fair trade off as well, as the oil you are saving could go into a diluted fuel power plant if you are that worried. Saying that, the original plan did have 193 fuel spare, which I have not factored in.

I largely see this as an experiment in simplifying resources required for construction, with the biggest downside being it needs to be near a reasonable large water source. I've also not really looked at adding alt recipes within the base plan, like pure iron/copper, or the various oil alts, which could substitute water for resources as well, without changing the over-all complexity of recipes.

Yes or no?

[vapid gorge]

Seems to work fine? I have an entirely rational hatred towards electrode circuit boards though XD

[timber flare]

I havent mathed it out but im doing caterium computer and caterium circuits using the alts for pure copper and caterium and then making alot of copper caterium alloy wire

[rare surge]

Q: Assuming I have the use for it, is Liquid biofuel worth the effort over solid bio fuel?

[vapid gorge]

By the time you can make it easily I just used fuel?

[rare surge]

Basically I have a truck network that delivers building items to central locations around the map. The trucks aren't 'important' in production lines, so I'm currently running them on solid biofuel. (Has the benefit of me not having to trash stuff from invo).

Wondering roughly how much more LBF would extend the time between raw-material restocking

[rare surge]

Q: Have you looked into the circuit+oscillator recipe?

For the circuits you can use oil products
For the oscilators, both cable and reinforced iron plates have oil-based recipes

[vapid gorge]

Well generally when you purify fuel further you get longer running time... but are you going around collecting stuff to make more liquid biofuel? Because that seems like a pain

[edgy nova]

So glad this is the game I’m addicted to

[quiet wraith]

same but im not good at it

[edgy nova]

I made a massive rotor factory, had one input wrong and it took 4 long hours to find the issue and fix it

[vapid gorge]

You get there

[quiet wraith]

i feel the pain

spent 2 days fixing my power and all i had to do it disconnect it from my grid and let it build up a little bit

[quiet wraith]

eventually

[edgy nova]

I wish I could go back to when I started, when I didn’t care about ever factory being 100% efficient.

[quiet wraith]

im at that stage\

but i have efficient factories for maximum carnage

[edgy nova]

Alternate pure caterium recipe factory. 600 caterium ore/min needs 25 refineries to produce 300 caterium ingot instead of the default 200 caterium ingot/min. The downside, though, is you need so much more space and so much more power to build.

Any thoughts to improve or optimise

[vapid gorge]

To save space you could have had the centre be a manifold for both pipe and belt.

[edgy nova]

Cheers

[vapid gorge]

You could ALSO stack them! If you build the top layer first you can clip the bottom chimneys into the top floor refineries. Just needs to be 4 walls high I think?

[rare surge]

A very slight improvement - when injecting fluids into a manifold its better to inject from the top instead of the side. When injecting from the side if the 'feed' pipe isn't full fluids will attempt to flow into the feed pipe from the manifold.

Since fluids are affected by gravity, pipes fill from the lowest point upwards. Which means when injecting from the top back-feeding doesn't occur unless the manifold is full

[edgy nova]

That's very helpful thank you

[wind spade]

That's in pipe manual as well imo

[frosty owl]

Funfact: that's why "vertical" pipe balancers actually work much like belts

[oblique hollow]

Loop the manifold and you can do it all a bit faster too

[edgy nova]

All that for 20 fuel rods

Not bad

[frosty owl]

Can be better with alts

[edgy nova]

Still fairly new to the game, what would help?

[frosty owl]

The meta for uranium processing is quite simple: don't use standard recipes for any of the radioactive processes (uranium blending and cells manufacturing)

The alts will give you more rods per uranium and require less machines per rod

[edgy nova]

Is there a mod or a map of where all the pods are? May as well grab as many as I can

[frosty owl]

Sure.

Second link is the most used map

[edgy nova]

Oh wow I see, that’s awesome

Cheers man

[edgy nova]

I need to make a coal factor that produces 24,889.05 MW. of power; If I overclock 164 generators I can make that happen but it would take 4,977.892 coal/min and 14,924m^3/min of water. I would need 17 Normal coal nodes and mk.II miners

Wait if I use compacted coal it cuts the cost of coal in half

[stark bronze]

with the price of an even rarer material

[timber flare]

You are probably better off tiering up and grabbing fuelgens.

If not fuel gens atleast petroleum coke

And burn that

[rare surge]

^

With the 2850 oil/minute on the northern coast*, you can produce ~84,000MW of excess power via fuel gens

*: oil extractors overclocked to 250%; does not include 3 nodes to the north-west that are on a hill

[timber flare]

This is what 45 GW looks like with fuel power

Doing about half of that rn

[timber flare]

300 ish unoverclocked fuel gens

[thorn bane]

compacted coal is bad
"In contradiction to its description Compacted Coal is not actually a more efficient fuel source for Coal Generators when considering net power. Since at 100% clock speed it takes 180MJ for an Assembler to make 5 compacted coal the net energy of one compacted coal is actually 594MJ. Compared to using 2 Coal, which are worth a total of 600MJ, using 1 Coal + 1 Sulfur actually results in less net power."

[timber flare]

Save the compacted coal for turbofuel later. Or just dont use it imo

[rare surge]

Honestly, turbo fuel isn't really worth it. We have better power sources(nuclear), and the sulfur is needed elsewhere(nuclear, aluminum, batteries)

[thorn bane]

dont need sulfur for nuclear if youre not at nuclear yet
just dont use sulfur for aluminum?
you dont need that many batteries (if id had to guess id say roughly about 10% of sulfur relative to your other materials, ofc slightly more if you heavily use drones but even then)

turboblend fuel is pretty awesome and i definitely recommend it if you feel overwhelmed by the complexity of nuclear

just dont do default turbofuel or turbo heavy fuel

[timber flare]

I really enjoy the brutal aestetic of efficiency. 600 water + 900 copper ore -> 2250 ingots

Just compactly shoved in a tower of refineries

[noble timber]

Are you using pipe floor holes here or just clipping them through the foundations?

[timber flare]

floor holes

Well both

Connecting from the intersection up is just clipping

Otherwhise floor hole

[noble timber]

Floor holes have a weird bug where they seem to kill head lift so I would suggest placing pumps after each floor hole to be safe

[timber flare]

ye ran into that before

Was weird

Strangled my petrochemical setup

[edgy nova]

This is the literally the best game community ever.

Thanks all

[timber flare]

🙂

[versed leaf]

any better way to split excess rods than doing this?

[hazy saffron]

two manifolds

[vapid gorge]

Is there a reason you want so much coal and don't want to jump to fuel?

[versed leaf]

manifolds?

[hazy saffron]

output the rods to mergers that merge them onto a single line then do splitters to slip them into whatever you need to put them into

[versed leaf]

ohh

tyty
I'll try this with the next node haha

[vapid gorge]

This is a pretty good tutorial on them. Most people fall into doing manifolds even if they don't realise it but it's good to get the reasons why and how they work specifically so you can make custom jobs of them that you can make into different shapes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwguwhizdlE

[edgy nova]

Yeah, I’m limited by the technology of my time

[vapid gorge]

Ah, mind if I make a suggestion?

[edgy nova]

Certainly, kind sir.
Kind Regards, Jules

[vapid gorge]

You can get by pretty easily with 5GW coal to power you through to fuel tech as long as you aren't constantly sinking extra items. Most of your factory will be shut down when you fill up containers.

And it's a lot easier making high fuel GW than coal

[edgy nova]

I’m actually up to Particle accelerators but I’m consistently trying to learn more

One of the greatest games I’ve played in a while, want to learn everything

[vapid gorge]

It is 😄 yeah just hunt down a few alt recipes, Heavy Oil Residue and Blended Diluted fuel. Simple set up and high power per resource output

You could go blended turbo fuel, it gives you about 25% more power for the crude by just adding sulfur but it does increase complexity so it's give and take

[edgy nova]

I’ll give it a go

[versed leaf]

how is this good if u lose 1 iron?

[hazy saffron]

you don't lose one iron

the normal recipe is 1 ore into 1 ingot

that's 1 ore into 1 and 6/7s of an ingot

[edgy nova]

if you need to make ingots faster it's good

or more of

[ebon crater]

there are no downsides to pure iron in my mind

space maybe, power maybe

idk i use alloy more often than pure

[hazy saffron]

Only downside is it needs water

[ebon crater]

refineries suck sometimes

i think in my steel setup i use default iron and copper alloy

[hazy saffron]

Only when all the alt recipes you're using are refinery-based

Most of the good alt recipes use the refinery. I'm tired of building refineries lmao

[ebon crater]

yea fr

although

one sec actually

if i take a look at my steel plant

most alt recipes i used are in assembler

compacted coal, amazing

encased pipes, amazng

[hazy saffron]

Pure ingots, processing oil byproducts

[ebon crater]

fine black powder, amazing

[hazy saffron]

I can't remember anything else of note tbh

[ebon crater]

yeah oil is like 60% of alt recipes it seems

[hazy saffron]

Yeah

Normal recipes also use the refinery wuite a bit too

Sulfuric acid, fuel, plastic, rubber

Pretty much everything is refinery-based

[ebon crater]

yeh a factory withut refneries is not a factory at this point haha

[versed leaf]

im so stupid

[edgy nova]

Nah you’re not, just satisfactory brain getting to you

Just a few points

[snow dove]

Me when i sink my extra heavy modular frames and computers:

[stark bronze]

iron wire and stitched plate is the meta for RIPs without oil products but its having a superficially copper product infiltrating the iron kingdom which might just be as bad as an oil product

[edgy nova]

Is that 60 million

For someone who plays satisfactory I’m not good with numbers

[oblique hollow]

Yes its almost 60 mil

[timber flare]

what are trains XD

[ebon crater]

wat is better:
HOR to petroleum coke, or HOR to diluted fuel
in terms of power made to HOR used

[timber flare]

Fuel

HOR to PC is 1:2 same with HOR to diluted

But fuel gets you more power

[ebon crater]

double

alright thx

[oblique hollow]

Hor to PC is 1 to 3

In terms of production ratio

Power wise its not really.....

[snow dove]

what website is this?

[hazy saffron]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com

[faint bridge]

New player here, thanks for that link 😍

[faint bridge]

any other essential resources?

[wind spade]

there are links in pins or in #welcome

[full dawn]

that website is amazing, holy moly

[hazy saffron]

3000 aluminum ingot/minute that I need to figure out how to split up

are fluid tanks necessary for anything or should I just ignore them?

[rapid pilot]

They're nice buffers if anything starts acting up tbh

[vapid gorge]

If you need to move n gas? And pressure turbo motors are amazing

[hazy saffron]

Gas can be moved with normal pipes and fluid cars so that's not really a concern

[rapid pilot]

If you've calculated the pipes, and it works, you don't need them

If you're troubleshooting a system. Feel free to add them

[vapid gorge]

Don’t use cars gas buffers fuck things up

[hazy saffron]

seems to work fine in my experience

[hazy saffron]

I'm talking about these guys

[vapid gorge]

You do t get full throughput because gas flow is based off pressure . So when platform tanks get lower the speed of the gas decreases

[hazy saffron]

still have yet to observe any issues with my gas movement

however it's been idle for days now because I haven't been consuming said gas

#notenoughcasingslmao

[vapid gorge]

If using max throughput isn’t an issue you might be ok?

[rapid pilot]

No clue, never seen em

[vapid gorge]

Also you can move more gas in a package as it’s 4x to one container

Oh and if you need to move n acid

[hazy saffron]

it's so far only used for fused modular frames which I'm making at a rate of 0/minute right now due to not having aluminum feed lmao

[vapid gorge]

Need containers

[hazy saffron]

Nitric acid requires fluid tanks?

[vapid gorge]

If you don’t want pipes or trains.

Since you often don’t need much of it drones are a good option

[hazy saffron]

ah, I'm fine with either of them with distance-based criteria

sub-1km I'll probably use pipes but over 1 km it's much easier to use trains as the same rails can move multiple object types

[vapid gorge]

Oh but yeah this recipe. It’s great

[hazy saffron]

yeah I saw that

[vapid gorge]

Big save on alum and just spends more gas

[hazy saffron]

I don't have much need for turbo motors atm that my small temp "factory" couldn't handle

[vapid gorge]

Fair

I think it’s one of the main alts you want if you’re squeezing your bauxite

Also it’s fast

[hazy saffron]

3000 aluminum ingots/minute should last me quite a while

[vapid gorge]

Like 2x speed base

[hazy saffron]

I'm already consuming just under 1/3 of the maps aluminum capacity lmao

[vapid gorge]

Pump those numbers up! 😄

[hazy saffron]

brb replacing smelters with foundries for +33% ingot production

[vapid gorge]

Exploit that planet before it evolves communists

[vapid gorge]

Regular alum?

[hazy saffron]

yeah, switching the 104 smelters for foundries to go for the more "complex" regular ingot recipe

I prefer pure because I don't have to bring in silica

[vapid gorge]

Ooof so much silica

[hazy saffron]

instant scrap + normal ingot = 3 bauxite -> 4 ingots

instant scrap + pure ingot = 3 bauxite -> 3 ingots

I'd say that's worth not having to deal with silica lmao

[timber flare]

Is there anything major you need LOADS of quartz for?

[rapid pilot]

Everything

PLUS it looks nice, decorate your base with quartz today

[hazy saffron]

it's the main source of silica

if you like windows; quartz is your friend

[timber flare]

Well i meant other than silica

[hazy saffron]

uh, quartz crystals are used for crystal oscillators

which are used a fair bit

[vapid gorge]

You said increasing ingot though? That’s adding silica right?

[hazy saffron]

yeah

normal gives 33% more ingot than pure at the expense of silica

I would need to bring in 5000 silica/minute lmao

[timber flare]

And even with cheap silica that sounds like a headache

[hazy saffron]

only 134 constructors with the normal recipe

or 191 assemblers with cheap silica

[timber flare]

Ye beeg factory lets gooo

[hazy saffron]

replaces 104 smelters with ~67 foundries and ~200 assemblers just for 1 more aluminum ingot per bauxite

[vapid gorge]

I’m sorry I’m reading that you were doing the opposite because you said you were replacing smelters with foundries indicating you were adding silica… not simplifying it…..

[hazy saffron]

I'm not replacing the smelters lmao

i don't hate myself that much

would require ~2450 raw quartz/minute and 3600 limestone/minute

🤔

cheap silica doesn't really make it cheaper

[snow dove]

People are really determined to max out the aluminum

[hazy saffron]

the aluminum is limited

so it makes sense

up to 13040/minute available on the map for ingots, i"m making 3000/minute

little under 1/4 of the total capacity

[timber flare]

Its kinda the same for me but with the fertile uranium recipie

I look at that and i run away screaming. Do not want plutonium and its eating my uranium. NOPE

[hazy saffron]

all of what I'm doing is because I had about 20 less casings/minute than I needed

[timber flare]

I feel you i was slightly low on rubber at an early stage and instead of getting phase 3 done i just went and built a giant petrochemial setup XD

[hazy saffron]

gonna need to do that here soon

what I have is technically good enough but it could be better

[timber flare]

Diluted fuel loop + recycle 🙂

Love it

[hazy saffron]

I probably won't be using that chain

I just have to separate refineries on the map and I much prefer having production lines of things consolidated to single locations

[timber flare]

Looks like this rn

Well you could have a system like this only output one of the two and it would be more effective than most other solutions

[hazy saffron]

I have 75 total refineries; 30 are doing crude oil -> fuel, 30 are doing crude oil -> plastic and 15 are doing crude oil -> rubber

so far they've been adequate

[timber flare]

Ye that will last you for quite a while

[hazy saffron]

for example; all of my rubber usage recently has been construction projects and not crafting

[timber flare]

Im going heavy into petro alts because i have so much

[hazy saffron]

the crude oil -> fuel actually is not enough now

I regularly hit above 15000 MW

[rapid pilot]

HOT DAMN

That's a U5 build if I've ever seen one

[timber flare]

My setup right now has
60 refs doing HOR
30 refs doing poly to rubber
80 refs doing diluted fuel and 20/20 doing recylce

[hazy saffron]

capacity: ~30k MW
max consumption: ~46k MW

there's some problems here

[timber flare]

Ouch

#math-and-meta message

[hazy saffron]

a very large majority of that is idle factory

[timber flare]

you need that in your life XD

[hazy saffron]

nah

I have unstable nuclear power™️

[timber flare]

XD Well you see why i like diluted

[hazy saffron]

it keeps fluctuating in output randomly and I have no idea why nor do I care enough to investigate

[timber flare]

Oh god

[hazy saffron]

i think some of my water extractors aren't OC'd or something

[timber flare]

You could make a big battery farm

Like even a modest 10x10 would do great

[hazy saffron]

there's 10400 MWh in a battery farm somewhere else

[pulsar idol]

wow.,..

[hazy saffron]

but they rarely get power drawn from them due to like 90% of my stuff being idle most of the time

[pulsar idol]

where most of the power comes from?

[timber flare]

His: Unstable nukes
Mine: Loadsa fuel

[hazy saffron]

*hers

[pulsar idol]

;-;

[hazy saffron]

and around 10k of that is unfinished fuel generators and the rest is the nuclear stuff

[pulsar idol]

ayyyy i finally can make some oil products

[hazy saffron]

theoretically 25000 MW from the nukes if they actually functioned right lmao

[rapid pilot]

Nuclear power plant momenr

[timber flare]

?

[hazy saffron]

unstable nukes

[timber flare]

Reason im not rushin into nukes is that i have 45GW just going strong

Diluted fuel goes brrr

[hazy saffron]

I did nuclear just to say I did nuclear

[timber flare]

pog

[hazy saffron]

It'll get torn down at some point and replaced with fuel generation because I prefer that

but it can wait a while

more important things right now; like aluminum

[rapid pilot]

I have 10000 all on biofuel try me.

[timber flare]

That just sounds like pain

[rapid pilot]

It is, god it is

[pulsar idol]

i wonder if packaged oil and transport it to areas are good

via trucks

[rapid pilot]

TRUCKS YOU SAY?

Oooo I love trucks, trucks go brr, trucks drive fast, mmmm truck

Jesus I need my meds

[ebon crater]

trains rn:
https://tenor.com/view/sad-cry-crying-tears-broken-gif-15062040

[ebon crater]

omg same i've forgotten mine like once this week and w'ere already one day in

[rapid pilot]

Fuck trains bro I dont understand signaling

[ebon crater]

my solution to that is just run one train per track

[rapid pilot]

See that's inefficient

Why run train when can run truck

[ebon crater]

bruh not me getting juked by the "several people" typing

thats a funny name