math-and-meta

[rare surge]

You aren't avoiding the 25s downtime with a second platform, you are mitigating the downtime by having 4 belts instead of 2.

[hazy saffron]

yeah, adding a second platform just doubles throughput

[rare surge]

Its one of the main reasons that for high-throughput items (such as screws & concrete) you'll see maxed saves utilize trucks, as the truck platforms don't have the port-locking mechanism

[sharp haven]

You can get around port stall by adding buffers on both stations, making sure the belt that is connected from the output end of the buffer to the station is a mark 5 (on the loading end). The only time this doesn't work is if you've got 2 fully saturated mark 5 belts, the rates of entering and leaving the buffer would be the same and the 25 sec delay would still be an issue. But you can do it all the way up to rates of 1400 per minute which I've done in my world. But having 1560 items per minute on one train platform I don't think is possible you'll always lose some throughput due to the loading and unloading delay.

[versed flint]

anyone know a good smart plating plan?

[stark bronze]

Any with 100% efficiency is good

[river coral]

Uh what would I do with 8 train stations? My friend now build 8 and I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT!

[vapid gorge]

Yeah that was the whole discussion 🙂

[vapid gorge]

Umm.... use them to move things next to them to other stations?

[vapid gorge]

If you're early on like it sounds like I generally just fill a few industrial containers with the basic parts then make a short run production of the mfed by the containers.

Almost everythign you build early on is easiest to treat as temporary

[vapid gorge]

Also the next phase of the space elevator needs them as parts as well so good to build like... 3000 of them for later?

[frosty owl]

I like the 270 instead of 240.
For balancing reasons :)

[wind spade]

good old times when mk4 was 450

[cedar mica]

780/3 is 260. So 270 makes sense, in that regard

[wind spade]

270 is also 6*45

[noble timber]

270 and 480 are really nice numbers to work with

480 especially when you are doing oil stuff

[grave lynx]

anyone? i dont even know how to start

[potent rampart]

You’ve got an equation on the left (8tan(2x)-5=3), and the bit in brackets on the right defines the range in which the answer can be in. Solve your equation on the left with algebra as normal, then make sure that your answer falls within the []s. Also, perhaps find a different discord. Not much trig in this game.

Or post in #off-topic-general

[grave lynx]

where do i see game math then

[ebon crater]

huh?

[grave lynx]

like a calculator or something

[ebon crater]

calculator for what?

[grave lynx]

for the game

[ebon crater]

for normal maths? graphs? satisfactory?

[ebon crater]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/production-planner

[grave lynx]

thanks 🙂

[ebon crater]

yeah no worries, have fun

[river coral]

Hi so I am starting with trains and would like an simple (if possible) explanation on how to calculate the locomotive to train ratio!

[vapid gorge]

Mostly if you keep the maximum angle of rise to 2n Ramps you can have 1 loco for 4 cars

[river coral]

Does it multiply? Like 2 loco for 8 or na?

[vapid gorge]

If it’s completely flat you can technically have infinite. But acceleration becomes a problem

[vapid gorge]

It’s works out to be about that yeah

But if you need to bring in 8 cars consider doing some of the fabrication on site and ship the products. Saves a lot on logistics and the more objects you have in one spot the more your comp lags

[river coral]

True! I just have a really cool large design and wan't to use it lol XD

[vapid gorge]

Fair!

[vapid gorge]

You also CAN use 4m ramps but if you’re doing big trains may want to stick to 2m

If you have big elevation changes you could consider doing a station at the top of the cliff transferring to another at the bottom

[river coral]

Ah alright! Thank you so much!

[wind spade]

Check pins, there's a lot of them

[rare surge]

greeny over here being too humble

[frosty owl]

Press "N" for the in-game calculator/search bar

[oblique hollow]

Btw, check out the freifht car wiki page, it lists how many you can do per any given ramp and train weight

!wikisearch freigh car

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=freigh car

[oblique hollow]

Aw damn it typo xd

[candid bane]

What is a good ratio for train rail turning for spirals?
Like 3x3 snap steps for perfect curve, but when it’s also going down vertically, anyone know of a good ratio to use as standard to get a clean spiral?

Can’t test it myself until tonight but keep thinking about it :p

[oblique hollow]

5 x 5 seems good, also not as steep

[candid bane]

thank you

[rugged moon]

fasz

[wind spade]

No spirals best spirals

[latent glacier]

Hey guys, I'm trying to plan my steel factory using satisfactorytools. Is there a way to get rid of a recommended production path? I don't want to be producing more rotors, just use what input I already have.

I thought of a solution the second I asked, of course. I disabled the recipe for rotors and that worked

[frosty owl]

That da way

[ebon crater]

i would aim for more than 5 pipes/min...

actually nvm, you'l probably have enough, just not emediatley

[latent glacier]

You're probably right. This is also a rebuild of my steel factory, I already have a few industrial storage containers stockpiled. Any idea how many you think I should aim for?

@ebon crater (forgot to tag)

[hazy saffron]

as much as you think you'll need

I'm doing 50/min of both beams and pipes

but that's because I'm using a lot of rails

[latent glacier]

I tried programming in "as many as I think I'll need" and it didn't work

[hazy saffron]

sad

[cedar mica]

How does pipes, handle over stuffing? Like 5 liquid wagons, filling the same pipe

[ebon crater]

idk... im doign 120/min(ish) wich is suuuper excessive. go for a multiple of one constructor, so...20/min?

thats one constructor

30 steel in, 20 pipes out

ignore the middle row, but thts the outputs of my steel setup

there are more outputs but those are less important

[latent glacier]

Yeah I've got it tweaked to 20/min now 👍 . I designed with room to expand

[ebon crater]

perfect

[latent glacier]

Thanks for the advice!

[ebon crater]

yeah no worries, hope it works out for you

also if you're not struggling on power, you can sink the stuff after your storage is full(smart splitter on overflow), and you can make some points

[vapid gorge]

As a side thing to all that do you see the section in 'inputs' where you can add products? if you ad X number of rotors per min that you're already making the plan will take them into acount

[hazy saffron]

I use that a lot myself

not for that purpose; just to remove already constructed factory sections from the list

sometimes it works

sometimes there's rounding errors

[latent glacier]

I know, I was being snarky. If I knew how many I needed then I wouldn't be asking!

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it's a good way to excise and split plans to make it simpler to manage

[versed violet]

How do I limit belt throughput to fraction of mk1? In relatively compact way?
So far I've built this merger->splitter thing and merge 2 belts back to get 1/3rd of mk1 at the output. Does changing belt marks will change the ratio?

[vapid gorge]

yeah so the fraction of the belt speed will change thigns up I'm pretty sure.

Like if you have mk2 to mk2+mk1 you SHOULD get the mk2 doing 2/3 of the material and the mk1 doing 1/3 of it since it's 120 max and 60 max respectively

I think. I don't generally do any of th load balancing stuff.

[mystic verge]

is there a reason to overclock a mk3 miner on a pure node to 250%? like i know the mk5 belts cap out at 780 items/min but is there something I can do with splitters to use the full potential of a pure node or is it just gonna be bottlenecked?

[wind spade]

No

[mystic verge]

Ok well that's a shame. Good to know tho

[wind spade]

It's not lile you're gonna run out of ores anyway

[bitter tree]

@mystic vergeYou can go in the Miner, and edit the number/min to get it to 780/min. You don't have to fiddle with the % to try to get it to the right spot to make 780/min

[wind spade]

The question was if it makes sense though

[bitter tree]

@wind spade I understand. But some people don't know you can edit just the ppm. There are a also people that don't know you can just edit the number for %, rather they try to just use the slider.
Was trying to give some side information, as it seems the answer to their question was already given

[wind spade]

you should then provide complete information - setting ipm number means that the game calculates the clock speed % and uses that instead, which can lead to inaccuracies. Clock speed is rounded to 4 decimal places

[frosty owl]

Usual fluid priority. Like when merging solids, depending on how you set it up, you can make it so that items come from one station first, then the rest

[frosty owl]

I think a distinction should be made: one thing is if you want to split the belt, another if you need the outputs to have a SPECIFIC item/min or carry a SPECIFIC portion of the input (eg: 1/3 exactly)

If no precision is needed, what you're doing is fine, what Cobalt suggested would be more compact ^^

[fierce ruin]

asd

[timber flare]

Im making a full 30 refinery Iron refinery. pain

A full 4 pure nodes at mk 2 miners lets GOOOO

[still blade]

If I want to make a production line of encased beams, only one assembler, using 60 PPM of coal, iron, and limestone, how many non assembler machines will I need, and what clocking speeds?

[oblique hollow]

to start:
Limestone to concrete: 3 to 1, so 60 makes 20 (1.333333 Constructors)
Steel Ingots: 1 to 1, so 60 coal and iron make 60 (1.3333333 Foundries)
Steel Beams: 4 to 1, so 60 Ingots make 15 Beams (1 Constructor)
Encased Beams: 15 Steel beams make 3.75 Encased Beams per minute, needing 18,75 Concrete (0.625 Assemblers)
Leftover: 3,75 Concrete

makes a grant total of 3.66666 Non-Assemblers.
As for clocking: 1.3333 constructors could be 1 at 100% and 1 at 33.33333%. or one at 133.33333%. up to you

[wind spade]

ideally .3334

[versed violet]

Sadly, replacing belts with higher mark does not help. The splitter will only send one piece to each output, and merger merges from all 3 in turn. It does however work to limit throughput to 1/3 of mk1 (20 items), probably adding a second one after this would reduce it three times again.

[summer fox]

is it possible to get max throughput of a node (uranium) by using drones? i`m not sure by using multiple drones cab counter act the landing/lift off animation

[wind spade]

you can just build more drone ports 🤷‍♂️

[versed violet]

Total X or someone did it with 2 ports

you can also double the troughput by using a drone on each end methinks

[vapid gorge]

Really? Odd really should look into how that number splitting goes

[short holly]

wouldn't the belt back up if that was right?

[versed violet]

its pretty simple i think. if output belts are not slower than input, splitter will divide items evenly between all outputs. if one of outputs is slower than input or backed up, it will be skipped on ts turn.

[short holly]

yeah, so the mk2 would get twice as much as the mk1..

[versed violet]

merger in turn, will attempt to pick one item from each input, in turn, provided the input belts can provide in time. if input belt is empty, it skips turn.

[short holly]

ah nvm, only if at max. i see what you're saying.

[versed violet]

well, my trick relies on merger forcing all inputs into one output. if you split into 3 and backmerge into input, the 2/3rds will be forced into mk1 belt, leaving only 20 real throughput on mid belt.

increasing any of the backmerge belts does nothing, as they can only receive 1/3rd of input. [extra speed is unused]

middle belt cannot be upgraded, because its the limiter.

upgrading input also does nothing, as does the output.

[short holly]

i may have missed this but if you've got 80 to start with, why not use an mk1 and overflow for the other 20

[versed violet]

cleaner schematics
input on left, output on right, merger then splitter

[short holly]

yeah sorry i've lost what you are trying to achieve

[versed violet]

I'm trying to limit the belt to below 60/min. It feeds fuel into drone port, and 60/min clogs the outputs. I have to either sink it, or resend back, but resending clogs.

[short holly]

why not use an overflow?

[versed violet]

Truck stations say I need 6 fuel/min for my trucks 😕

Its a bidirectional drone - hauls the fuel to HM base, brings back HMF. 60 fuel is too much to send back, and whole thing locks. drone will not unload when port is full

[short holly]

you only need batteries in one of the ports, unless you are forwarding the batteries onto another location

which you are, i see

[versed violet]

using trucks in remote base, too lazy to break up a mini refinery to make total of 6 fuel/min

[and the nearest burnables are 2km away anyway, so need to ship in]

[short holly]

alright. you could split the input a couple of times to get to the desired number, and sink the rest, or if you aren't using them just clock down the battery factory

[versed violet]

sorry, fuel is bulk shipped from refinery, and I have full box, so you get mk1 belt all the time at minimum. Sinking fuel is what I want to avoid, hence the backmerge

[short holly]

i'm surprised it works, it looks like with your backmerge you'll still get 60/min when saturated

cos the side belts will back up

or no. hm

[versed violet]

try it 😉

the merger will enforce that all inputs get a turn

[short holly]

interesting

[versed violet]

I need to check if these can be stacked for another reduction. It might be middle belt dependent

base version when started, you can see the output is 1/3rd by the gaps

[short holly]

yeah, so the belt is rate limiting. you might be able to reduce further by splitter the output again and merging it with the return lanes?

[versed violet]

it works when backed up too, here I clogged it for a standstil before unblocking

[short holly]

Nice

that means you can reduce further i guess

[versed violet]

It looks they don't stack. can't be chained, output is still 1/3rd

[short holly]

yeah that wont work cos of the middle belt, but try what i suggested - merge the output into the previous return lanes

[versed violet]

what if we use recurrency? It seems to work. the gap is around 9 bags now!

question of why am I building conveyors in middle of nowhere, instead of exploring, is left as exercise to the reader

[vapid gorge]

@versed violet see I would have expected the belts to work on ticks, so a mk2 belt would tick at 2x the rate of a mk1.

I pointedly ignore all belt balancing mind you XD

[frosty owl]

Why not "just" send the fuel back and priority merge it with the source?
If (eg) fuel keeps flowing out at 60/min from a container, just two mergers would suffice as priority merging for a returning line (2 splitters could prioritize completely up to 45/min returning fuel in this situation)

[frosty owl]

Small note (not relevant for this example, but is vital for precise splitting): unless all output belts have the same MK (or are backing up), a splitter will NOT divide items evenly between outputs. The fastest belts tend to get a slightly bigger portion of items (<1% of error iirc)

[vapid gorge]

Thank you for reinforcing my urge to never load balance 😛

[left zenith]

manifolds forever!

and by forever i'm talking about how long it takes for them to get to full efficiency

[frosty owl]

Nuclear oscillators go brr

[broken tulip]

Questions of why you don’t demolish your radio towers however are more of a challenge

[bitter tree]

I want to make things go brr! .. 😭

[broken tulip]

Redone calculations about an Oil Refinery running on 600 m3/min crude oil factoring in the fluid bug. HOR feed prioritizes Diluted Fuel and overflows to Petroleum Coke; Fuel feed prioritizes the rubber/plastic loop and the generators and overflows to Packaged Fuel in the end.

a shipping slip on the right for the construction materials, ofc plus a bunch of concrete for foundations

[still blade]

lets say i have 120 iron, 60 copper, 60 coal, and one motor assembler. how many other machines will i need to optimize motor production?

[oblique hollow]

Bunch of constructors and assemblers for rotors and stators

I suggest you try it the other way first: how much ore and machines do you need for 5 motors / min?

Then you can make an easy guess for your 120 iron, 60 copper and coal

[crimson valve]

overclock the drills v2

you will need more

[versed violet]

two reasons:

1. They are vital for base-to-base communications. [aka flavor]
2. They provide navigational aid. On the other side, I have total of 3 beacons on my map.

[tepid trout]

Is this the best option to max out one uranium node for a nuclear build https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=2bktbN8tkMEZ2razMMcj

[short holly]

depends what you're trying to do. looks pretty resource efficient, but it's complicated.

[tepid trout]

Just trying to get the most amount of fuel rods out of one node

[wind spade]

also depends if you want to do just uranium, uranium with processing or uranium + plutonium

[short holly]

indeed. pretty hefty on the quickwire too.

[tepid trout]

Yeah I was going to do plutonium as well just to sink so there is no waste guess I should look at that as well

[vapid gorge]

I think so! I'd avoid coke steel unless you happen to have a bunch of waste coke anyway.

[vapid gorge]

oh wait, are you building this in the east swamp?

[tepid trout]

i am sure i will be close to there

[vapid gorge]

Right fair enough, coal is annoying to get there and you'll need to make rubber for the heat sinks in the plutonium recipes anyway

oih and the oscilators too

[vapid gorge]

If you're going to make plutonium rods make a plan that includes BOTH of the recipes and make 1 oil refinery that supports both. It'll be easier in the long run

I'm not sure there's much overlap between the two recipe plans other than the rubber but I haven't looked at them recently on mine

[radiant yoke]

what's the best spot to set up a quick rifle ammo factory

[versed violet]

I'd say coal lake, if you can get rubber shipped from elsewhere

[radiant yoke]

this coal lake? (the one north of titan forest)

[versed violet]

the grasslands one. Or wherever you have sulfur and coal near

[radiant yoke]

k

[manic solstice]

so, does anyone know if it's feasible to use purely uranium fuel rods and turn the waste into something that can be sinked?

or is it just always better to go plutonium fuel rods

obviously they hold twice the power, but I'm just annoyed at the prospect of waste accruing

[hazy saffron]

uh, you're like halfway to your answer there

[manic solstice]

so it's just a choice then

[hazy saffron]

plutonium fuel rods are obtained from uranium waste processing

[manic solstice]

yea ik

[hazy saffron]

you can sink the plutonium fuel rods

[manic solstice]

yup

I guess it's just a trade-off then

[hazy saffron]

uranium ore -> uranium fuel rods -> power generation -> uranium waste -> plutonium fuel rods -> sink

[manic solstice]

waste some of the maps resources on refining the waste into sinkable fuel rods and take a hit to how much power you can produce, or just deal with stacking up fuel rods

[hazy saffron]

you can already get quite a lot of power from nuclear w/ sinking the plutonium rods

i don't think many people go further than that

[manic solstice]

satisfactory answer, thank you 👌

[vapid gorge]

Yeah in a vanilla game you'd have to aim to use all the power made by full nuclear and overclock absolutely everything you can

[lament bluff]

I'm debating between using coal to power my vehicles or setting up fuel refinement. I have access to plenty of coal and oil, but I kind of think the oil is more valuable to be made into plastic and rubber, I'm tempted to stick with coal for now. Is there some advantage to packaged fuel over coal that Im missing?

[frosty owl]

It burns for longer (per-unit), but is harder to make

[frank mesa]

Depending on having the Alt. Recipe "Diluted Fuel", and the availability of the Alt recipes for making recycled plastic and rubber. A mildly complicated setup would be needed, but feasible to go that way

Have not yet tapped in to the use of polymer residue, but that would yield some extra rubber and plastic

[vapid gorge]

You're sounding fairly early on - consider: do you plan on keeping the trucks as a long term logistic process or do you think you'll swap to more focused hubs or other transport? Trains/Drones

If you're wanting trucks to be a mainstay tool you use fuel is a pretty good idea I think

[lament bluff]

Not sure, I haven't gotten this far before :p. But based on my Factorio and Dyson sphere program history I probably will replace things eventually

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it depends on your play style - if you think you're the type of person who will come up with new methods or want better efficiencies in the future and don't mind rebuilding factories or processes from the groudn up? I'd stic kto coal

Not worth the time setting it up for fuel since you'll probably tear it down soon enough

[vapid gorge]

on the OTHER hand, do you have the jet pack yet?

[lament bluff]

Not yet. I will definitely have a fuel setup for jetpack at least, the question is more about if I want to retool my fuel distribution :p

[vapid gorge]

Yeah that was going to be my direction - you'll want at least 1 machine slowly pumping out fuel since the Jetpack is amazing for travelling horizontally over terrible terrain exploring and getting about

Look - get to like tier 6-7 and decide? Unless you have a sprawling trucks going HUUUUGE distances you probably don't need the extra energy fuel give syou

I love the idea of having trucks travelling all over my complexes but they require a lot of room. Like, I wouldn't even have them carrying anything. Just have them there for traffic XD and moving parts to make a factory that looks alive XD

[vapid gorge]

Oh also it sounds like you're just at the start of the game but if you like trucks - later in game you get nuclear power that you can recycle the waste (something you can't sink) into plutonium rods. Most people sink these since you can't get rid of the radioactive waste.

Something you CAN do though is fill up your truck stations with Plutonium rods for them to use as a power source. Each rod powers a truck for 5+hrs, you could easily power an entire truck fleet on plutonium 😛

[broken tulip]

The production of plastic rubber produce HOR, unless you use the recycled recipes which uses fuel to produce the two and doesn’t produce HOR. HOR can be made into fuel. Thus using fuel wouldn’t affect your rubber and plastic production much; it’s more about your petroleum coke production since otherwise those HOR goes to coke.

My new petrochemical setup gives 60 (minus fluid bug losses of the system since it’s at the end of the line) out of 900 of the fuel production to packagers. Majorly for sinking and fluid bug balancing purposes since I barely use any fuel as I don’t really drive around.

[lament bluff]

Ooh nuclear trucks sound pretty cool.

[vapid gorge]

As long as you don't mind having to wear a radiation suit anywhere near them 😄

[minor hawk]

So vehicles running nuclear leak radioactivity?

Sounds like quite an inconvenience

[vapid gorge]

Well the buildings you store the fuel in for refueling will leak yeah at least. Not 100% if the trucks will or not

But who cares about a little thing like cancer when you can have infinite trucks running around!

[celest badge]

Just need a fast answer so came here, I got 6 pure coal nods how many coal generators can use with that

[hazy saffron]

a lot

up to 312

[celest badge]

Your joking right 😐

[hazy saffron]

if you OC the miners you can get up to 780/minute each node

a single generator takes 15/minute

[celest badge]

let’s go

Thx

[hazy saffron]

that's 52 generators per node

or 3900 MW per node

[celest badge]

Wait mk 1 miner or 2

[hazy saffron]

Mk 3

[celest badge]

Oh I don’t have mk 3 yet

[hazy saffron]

Mk 1 miner will get you 20 generators per node

Mk 2 will get you 40 per node

Mk 3 will get you 52 per node because conveyor bottlenecks

[celest badge]

that is still enough to jump star my fuel plant thx

[hazy saffron]

1500, 3000 and 3900 MW respectively

[timid zealot]

How much water? Is needed respectively

[hazy saffron]

900, 1800, 2340

[timid zealot]

How many extractors is that?

If i dont OC them

[hazy saffron]

7.5, 15, 19.5

[frosty owl]

TECHNICALLY, one could run a vehicle on nuclear rods without radiation (they don't make waste BTW!)...
But that would require VERY precise fuel distribution
Like feeding it 1 rod at a time so it never piles up any

[west bone]

I hope they will not change that and add a waste slot

[sick ivy]

@oblique hollow It got a bit lost in #old-questions-and-help - you see here two normal Oil Nodes and one pure Oil Node on the right. They will feed four Fluid Train Stations. Is there anything wrong with taking all Mk.2? Or could these all be Mk.1 pipelines in this setup (except the output pipe from the pure Node).

[oblique hollow]

all mk 2 is ok, and in fact a bit safer since those can deal with fluctuations a bit better in this case

due to the higher flow capacity

[sick ivy]

and I will leave these on 600 each?

Or the desired 300 m3 / min?

[vapid gorge]

I’ve had bad experiences with valves. I don’t use them unless absolutely needed and I’ll put pumps on instead if I want flow directionality

Valves pause flow until the pipe section behind it is full to a certain degree

[oblique hollow]

why even limit them to below 600, just set them to 600

let it choose its path

If it does nothing, why do it

[sick ivy]

Is backflow possible? If one pipe gets emptied more quickly, maybe because one Station is already full

[oblique hollow]

wouldnt matter

backflow wouldnt interrupt anything here

you have 600 flow and a total capacity of 1200

NOTHING will cause these to stall

but generally: if one pipe gets blocked, yes, pressure builds up and the fluid would try to go the other way

but that shouldnt matter

[sick ivy]

At the station, backflow shouldn't be the problem:

[oblique hollow]

except during loading

that blocks the station for 27 seconds

[sick ivy]

That is no problem, I can say "Wait till fully loaded" or "Wait 30 seconds"

[vapid gorge]

You sure your pipes have enough of an internal buffer to hold the fluid while loading and unloading?

[sick ivy]

Worst case (due to train traffic), both trains arrive at the same time.

Then the internal buffer is too low, ca. 300 m3 cap. per pipeline

[vapid gorge]

You could put 2 large fluid buffers so have two mk2 pipes feeding the platform?

[sick ivy]

I would leave the setup as is, put in front of each station one big buffer. (?) I want 4 cargo trains to be filled

[left zenith]

ugh why does heavy encased frame have to have such random numbers

it could just make 3/min and be so much easier to set up

and if you want to overclock it to 3/min, you have to overclock to 106.6667%, so then you round up to 107%

[wind spade]

because recipes don't work with per minute numbers

recipes work with absolute numbers

per minute numbers are just there for players to simplify things a bit

[left zenith]

yeah yeah I know

[severe slate]

What's a good target for Heavy Modular Frames / min? I just entered phase 4 of the space elevator.

[hazy saffron]

whatever you're capable of producing

you'll almost always need more of them

[severe slate]

I've got the stage set for 30/min, but wondering if that's overkill to do the end game and I should focus my resources elsewhere.

[hazy saffron]

I think that might be a bit overboard

but my target for this factory was 11.25/minute

i am also fairly late-game and I'm mostly using them for building other structures

also the factory is technically producing 0/minute right now

[fiery lagoon]

What is the ratio of water extractors to coal miners?

[hazy saffron]

3:8 for water extractors to generators

ratio for miners depends on the node and miner

[summer fox]

with the recycled rubber/plastic couldnt you just keep recycling making more and more long as you have fuel?

[stark bronze]

Who told you otherwise?

[summer fox]

i just looked at the recipe and it seems really strong like you could make near unlimited amounts

[stark bronze]

Only if you have other op fuel recipes

Its the only bridge between light and heavy oil products

[frosty owl]

Fuel is the cap

[empty blade]

should it try to make oil plants and transport it to my base with tractors or wait until i get the monorail

sorry wrong channel

[vapid gorge]

if you have the best recipes you get 3 rubber/plastic per crude

[timber flare]

Especially the diluted fuel recipe is kinda broke. 30/m heavy reisdue + 60/m canned water = 60/m canned fuel

The normal heavy residue -> fuel recipie is less than 1:1 while the alt is doubling the output

Just add water

[oblique hollow]

Oil refining be like that

"Just add water"

[vapid gorge]

It takes a lot of power and they needed to stretch oil products to maximise other parts

[timber flare]

I usually forget power because i tend to overbuild it

"Oh i need to setup coal power? Ok lets make 32 generators."

[vapid gorge]

Ah a modest coal plant XD

[timber flare]

yes

Now im working on this

[vapid gorge]

Noice

Blended diluted fuel?

[timber flare]

60 refineries making residue so first step ye

Oh no blended

dont have the tech

[vapid gorge]

Ah. Surprised you're not just waiting until you do. It's such a boost

[timber flare]

Going to use the diluted packaged

Is there a huge difference ?

Is blended diluted an alt @vapid gorge ?

[vapid gorge]

Its an 'alt' becaues packaged fuel was introduced before the Blender building was introduced.

Blended fuel is simpler since you can ignore the packaging and unpackaging and creating containers over and over

The base speed is faster as well

[timber flare]

So less factories got it

[vapid gorge]

I tend to overclock the blenders to 200% and get 200 fuel per min out of them

[timber flare]

Looking up recipie

Alright thanks ill finish up the current setup and let it sit. As it is its making 4 full mk2 pipes of residue

[vapid gorge]

Yeah no worries! depending on how much you want to squease your power output with blended diluted fuel, if you get the Turbo fuel recipe alt you can get about 25% more power out of your oil by adding a bit more sulfur

[timber flare]

I need to get on that tiering up thing XD

[timber flare]

Oh shit imma need loadsa water 8? full pipes

YAY WORK

Actually thinking about it. I might still do the containers so my production wont get clogged. Easy to sink if i dont need them

[timber flare]

I actually restrained myself only doing 60 refineries. I had brought enough pipes over there to do 100

Entire north coast of the map right there overclocked to 250

[vapid gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/s-afemoon-gif-shinobi-gif-22347958

[timber flare]

ikr

Im thinking i might have a better idea what to do with the remaining 2 pipes later

Same with one of the residual pipes

[frosty owl]

Yes

[wicked tinsel]

went with priority water junction, but then i realized that it doesnt actually achieve anything if factory might get paused -.-

need to redesign the alu loop somehow

[frosty owl]

Working factory > idle factory

[wicked tinsel]

for now sinking the excess alu seem like feasible solution

[frosty owl]

I prefer to always do that. There's little reasons not to imo ^^ (assuming one can "afford" a sink)

[wicked tinsel]

one big reason is that sink building is super ugly and massive for no reason

so it doesnt really fit anything

[frosty owl]

Arguable, but most sinks are kind of temporary anyway
Ideally, wouldn't you want to have a nice-looking sinking-station somewhere?

[wicked tinsel]

no point really

im making some batteries as part of plutonium processing

but by design, batteries need to be made in larger quantity then necessary

so this produces excess products -> those clog alu foundry

[frosty owl]

So... Why is there no point in having a sink somewhere to deal with (all) excess items?

[wicked tinsel]

there is no particular reason to sink anything else in that whole factory tho

and exporting it is pain due to train station size/throughput

no good solutions really

[frosty owl]

I'm not implying to put sinks in the factory 😉

[wicked tinsel]

i hoped the prio junction will help in general

[frosty owl]

If you want to keep those constrains, sure, no easy solutions 😅
If you were to somehow be able to fit a sink (or a connection to one) nicely, you'd have much less headaches 😉

[wicked tinsel]

but now i realize that its strictly live-only solution

i will probably put few sinks somewhere to get rid of excess resources

[frosty owl]

Honestly, just starting a factory plan with "I'll leave 1 output belt (or even just half) for overflow management" takes away tons of headaches

[tardy silo]

p:?oLKJ,MH UI ;9'P0]

[vapid gorge]

Yeah, It's why I got the small sink mod XD

[wicked tinsel]

honestly speaking, the root problem is that whole feedback system is poorly designed

i dont think its possible to "get this right" with current recipes and bugs present

one solution i was thinking about was to provide input water with head lift less than half of pipe height

but im not quite sure if it will work fine

basically, somehow, the system always need to maintain enough air in pipes that during shutdown, refineries wont have any water and only scrap alu

but whenever its possible or not, dunno

maybe few strategically placed tanks would work

[gaunt geyser]

sounds very complicated, is there a easier way to do that instead of what you are doing?

[wicked tinsel]

well, the easier way is to never let the scrap refineries shut down

but that isnt a good solution

[gaunt geyser]

are you talking about a water byproduct from the scrap ref? Why don't you just use the byp water to feed some of the aluminia without extractor water (independent pipe system), wich extractors feeding the remainder?

[weak saddle]

do you recon this is overkill?

[hazy saffron]

nah

as long as you have the refineries to keep up with it

you can scrunch them down into a smaller space though

that will be annoying to deal with however

w/o alt recipes it requires an input of 2160 m3/minute crude oil

[weak saddle]

all of them are overclocked too

[hazy saffron]

the location you're at can support up to 1800 without bringing in oil from other sources

[weak saddle]

nah im using turbo fuel blend

thanks

[hazy saffron]

consider moving it to the northwest corner of the map

Spire Coast has the best oil availability

[weak saddle]

bit late now

its fine here for now, thanks though

[hazy saffron]

then a second one there if you somehow run low on power

Spire Coast has 2850 m3/m availability, Islands has 1800 m3/m

the only downside is just about everything within the red circle will be changed in a later update
Blue circles aren't counted for the 2850 m3/minute ****

the nodes should stay where they are though iirc

[weak saddle]

thanks

[hazy saffron]

including blue circles you get 4350 m3/m

[weak saddle]

how come its so unstable? all of them are getting fue

[weak saddle]

thats alot

[hazy saffron]

did you just now turn it on?

[weak saddle]

yeah

[hazy saffron]

wait for it to equalize

make sure you're not trying to pump more than 600 m3/m through any pipelines too

actually wait

do you have biofuel generators somewhere?

[weak saddle]

nope

[hazy saffron]

it shouldn't be changing with consumption

[weak saddle]

so consumption should be a straight line?

[hazy saffron]

consumption is fine

capacity and production should be a straight line

but the fact that the two lines match is weird

mods or previous version of the game maybe?

[weak saddle]

im using mods but none that should affect power

im using smart mod

[hazy saffron]

interesting

[weak saddle]

they still havnt stabilized

[hazy saffron]

I have no idea

[weak saddle]

well thanks anyway

[hazy saffron]

someone else might be able to chime in with an answer

I'd give it like 30 minutes or so to see if it stabilizes then try restarting the game

[dire condor]

is it an isolated power grid or is it connected to a larger power system?

[weak saddle]

isolated

its fixed thanks, no idea what happened

[dire condor]

with it being isolated the initial set up will have some slight lag on the start up until it reaches equilibrium.

[weak saddle]

its beautiful.

[weak saddle]

got it, thank you

[stark bronze]

Before I do the math from scratch is there already a known return rate for diluted packaged fuel?

It shows about 200% on my graph but I'm also running recycled reactors so it's not accurate

[snow slate]

for each normal code how many coal gens can i power? and how many water generators thingys

[stark kraken]

Just wanted to share, if it's useful for someone. I started creating schemas like this using FigJam. I feel like this is so useful to wrap my head around complex setup. FigJam allows for easy edit and change. Probably works with Miro or other similar online whiteboarding tools. This is the first floor of a Modular Frame satellite.

[dire condor]

it depends on the miner you are using for a standard mark 1 miner on a normal node you can run 4 coal generators as for water you can run 4 generators on 1.5 water extractors

[hazy saffron]

draw.io is another excellent option

it's geared towards making flowcharts

it's also free and has google drive integration to save your charts

[stark kraken]

Ah yes, it's good too.

[timber flare]

Diluted fuel LETS GOOOO

[timber flare]

And based on that screenshot you can see my mistake XD

Im producing twice the fuel those 3 pipes can handle

[weak saddle]

where would be the best location to start a steel factory?

im looking at somewhere near here

might go here actually

[vapid gorge]

Well the grouping of 4 iron nodes on the 2nd pic is speedrunner cliff

[weak saddle]

whats speedrunner cliff?

where do you recommend i set up a steel factory

[vapid gorge]

It's just a spot that has basically everything but bauxite very close by

[weak saddle]

oh

[vapid gorge]

Near the 4 iron is very good for a megabase that make as bit of everything. So there is fine

[weak saddle]

alright cool

any other good locations?

[vapid gorge]

HEAPS of spaces where there's both iron and coal. Better to ask for more complex parts you want to make

Speedrunner cliff is just great cause it has everything else you need to build stuff with your steel

[weak saddle]

i might do it there

im just thinking in the future if i need to use iron or coal near there

[vapid gorge]

Well the coal to the left of it is good for power and the iron there could export more steel?

But if you get the good steel recipes the pure iron and pure coal on that cliff will last you

[weak saddle]

i have both

im just gonna do it there

thanks

[vapid gorge]

It's a good cliff to do just about anything in general except mass bauxite stuff

[weak saddle]

whats bauxite used for?

[vapid gorge]

aluminium

tier 7 ish?

[weak saddle]

gotchya

[vapid gorge]

But you can train some in if you really want

Oh and building there you want to expand factories UP. Flat spaces are at a premium in the area. That's the trade off

[near lion]

Finally, the turbofuel power plant

Now I need it to just normalize because half of the gens are not getting fuel

[vapid gorge]

Try making the pipe manifolds loop on themselves so it's filling from both direction

[near lion]

Yeah I was thinking that but its slowly going. First rows are already full and power is going up

[vapid gorge]

Could always set a bunch of them to run at like 1% and copy paste the settings, wait till they all fill, then copy paste 100%

It's not a bad idea getting them to all fill up because there's a bug that will delete some fluid out of every buffered machine when you load your game

[near lion]

I can also turn them off and let them fill

Too bad its really hard to move around them

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure if they fill if turned off? I thought they had to be on

[oblique hollow]

generators fill when turned off

[vapid gorge]

oh nice

[oblique hollow]

but not normal machines

[vapid gorge]

oh, make catwalks over the pipes 😄

[frosty owl]

Make pipes below the floor

[vapid gorge]

If the pipes already exist my way is easier 😛

[young whale]

why 😢

[vapid kernel]

I'd try temporary connecting the 2 pumps directly, clipping through the floor

[stark bronze]

try without floor holes first

i heard they hate headlift

[young whale]

yea got it now somehow but i have no clue why

[oblique hollow]

floor hole bad

they kill head lift

dont use

[young whale]

idk, works with the pump right next to it

[oblique hollow]

ive seen em kill it too often to trust them

[broken tulip]

thoughts on my current Hypertube network?
they don't necessarily go straight to follow terrain etc

[placid glacier]

Ok so I ran a couple numbers, and it is theoretically possible to make 1000 cooling units per minute

Should that be my factory goal?

[broken tulip]

well
sounds cool

[placid glacier]

The only thing about the cooling units is that it would literally use all of the materials in the world

So it would be hard to power the entire setup

Or I could go with a modest 780 cooling units per minute

But for now I’m still pre-aluminum and I want to get a motor/stator setup to top off my their 5-6 experience

[broken tulip]

my larger hypertube transfer stations are made with foundations, modern fences and walkways clipped into the foundations, creating fences to avoid being sucked into the wrong one or getting sucked into when walking by

smaller ones is just a 3x3 grid of walkway T-crossings and crossings providing fences right in front of each hypertube entrance

[broken tulip]

do a power estimate, you might be able to meet it with coal? You can get 3000MW minus miner mk 3 and the water extracting stations from a single normal node

[placid glacier]

True, but I would need literal thousands of refineries to make the setup work even for 780 per minute

Or at least close to a thousand

But for now, I have to finish my quick wire setup, automate ai limiters, and finally automate heavy modular frames, motors and stators (motors and stators preferably in the same setup)

[placid glacier]

Quick correction, high speed wiring, not quick wire

[broken tulip]

ai limiters might not be that hard to automate depending on location

[placid glacier]

True

I started in the place we all started, northern forest

[broken tulip]

I just flew a copper sheet conveyor belt to the quickwire factory and called it a day, but well that's where things stopped
I started in rocky desert

[placid glacier]

I think I’m going to make my motor setup in rocky desert

[broken tulip]

for supercomputers I just hand carried like 1k ai limiters and dumped them to a manufacturer that's fed with plastic and HSCs

[placid glacier]

Mainly because there is already a train semi-nearby delivering computers and circuit boards ima main base

[placid glacier]

That’s my kind of setup lol

[broken tulip]

and whenever I need some supercomputers I just hand feed it computers from the container across the factory by the number since I don't need it automated lmao

are you considering the cluster of pure iron nodes on the edge of northern forest

[broken tulip]

where my FITS is on this map

[placid glacier]

I’m not 100 percent sure

I’m using a lot of iron nodes for modular frames

So about 4

[broken tulip]

you can just make a big factory across the canyon or stuffs

[placid glacier]

True

[broken tulip]

regarding power, if you don't use up all the fuel when making rubber for cooling systems you can have a LOT of fuel left for generators

[placid glacier]

True

I could get some turbo fuel to power it all

[broken tulip]

my 600m3/min crude oil consumption refinery setup produces 3000 power and consumes about 3500MW so
turbofuel costs sulfur and coal tho

[placid glacier]

Yeah I would need to check the numbers again for that

Also right now, I have a 600 oil node powering 44.4 fuel generators

And it makes 6600 me

MW

But again I’m in teirs 5-6

So I just use heavy oil residue alt and turn that into fuel, while the polymer resin can be sunk or used for manufacturing

So it turns 600 oil into 6600 power plus about a 480 belt of resin

So if I was going for the 780 cooling units, I could use the leftover resin for plastic that gets turned into rubber

[broken tulip]

this can be a setup to make 1260/min rubber with only about 500mw of power input

[placid glacier]

I know how to make top oil numbers out of nodes

I turned 300 oil into about 342ish for my computer setup

[broken tulip]

you can make 17700MW of power (excluding transport and resource extraction, including refining) with 600/min oil

[placid glacier]

Yeah but I don’t have blenders yet

Still pre teir 7

But for now I have to finish the last components of my factory that isn’t automated

Excluding super computers

[broken tulip]

only a slight difference with packagers

[placid glacier]

And maybe crystal ocilators

[broken tulip]

HMF isn't automated for me but I need to have it automated soon I think

I do have everything for that at FITS

[placid glacier]

Yeah I’ll probably go for a hard drive hunt pretty soon

[broken tulip]

I need to get this nitrogen thing running to get one more and well go out hunting too

[placid glacier]

But for now I’ll just need to finish HSC, HMF, CO, and ai limiters

[broken tulip]

scaffolding with walkways isn't exactly productive but well it's safe

[placid glacier]

Howd you get that map?

[placid glacier]

Scaffolding is for the weak, rip and tear until it is done

[broken tulip]

I painted the colors myself and well the base image is from this wiki page https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Crash_Site

[placid glacier]

Head first, no regard for safety

[broken tulip]

well I just leave the walkways there usually lmao

[placid glacier]

Yeah I use ladders to get to some

But sometimes I miss a few ladders

[broken tulip]

well if you just fly a walkway over the terrain

[placid glacier]

So there are random posting ladders in my world

Floating

[broken tulip]

ofc it's not very effective but hey

[placid glacier]

Exactly

Who says that you need to be productive, my first play through says otherwise

That world is a mess

[broken tulip]

I'm prob going for these 3 next since I might want those aluminum which I do not need atm
should prob focus on redoing my main factory tbh, it's pretty much at a standstill since nothing is sunk and it's very ineffective too

[placid glacier]

Same

[broken tulip]

that yellow one is because I can't make turbo motors yet lmao

[placid glacier]

I also found that crash ship, didn’t have any either

I don’t know how or why, but I’m just a natural at running in, dodging and weaving, and getting out

[woven elbow]

there are infinity amount of powerpoles in my world. I used hover pack

[broken tulip]

that's tier 8 and requires fused modular frames or whatever it's called to unlock, which is my next step actually since that's what I'm making the nitrogen line for

[broken tulip]

lmao

[placid glacier]

Train tracks also work for hover pack

[broken tulip]

well it's never gonna be a problem powering outposts

[placid glacier]

Yeah but nitrogen and aluminum is where my last world went off the rails

[woven elbow]

indeed

[placid glacier]

And nuclear

[broken tulip]

I still don't have nuclear yet lmao

I decide to squeeze every bit of coal power out first

[placid glacier]

My nuclear setup was so bad, one blender from a 120 node, so in efficient

[broken tulip]

I currently have 2 nodes powering 36 generators or something, and with Miner Mk III that can be one node powering 40

[woven elbow]

im just started nuclear stuff

[placid glacier]

Ok fwgunner, make a huge stockpile for waste

[broken tulip]

and I'll prob work on alt recipes first before making a nuclear setup to save uranium since I only have access to one node atm
not that I can't try to get more but

[placid glacier]

Trust me

[woven elbow]

it frightened me

[placid glacier]

Yeah, prob will want the fuel rod alt, crystal beacon and other alts for nuclear

And the ocilator alt

[woven elbow]

isnt there a way to get rid of waste

[placid glacier]

If not then the setup is not efficient

[placid glacier]

There is in particle enrichment teir

You can sink plutonium fuel rods

It gets rid of waste, and gives you tickets

[woven elbow]

except throwing doggo off the map with wastes

[broken tulip]

Keep a stockpile of plutonium rods as you can also burn them in vehicles without making waste iirc

[placid glacier]

The solution to all problems

[placid glacier]

You can?

[broken tulip]

Wiki said that I think

[placid glacier]

Well I learned something today

Well it would probably irradiate the vehicle tho

[broken tulip]

Also according to wiki you don’t take radiation damage in car so

[placid glacier]

And it would be hard to constantly be burning the fuel rods

Oh

Well that still poses the problem of burning the plutonium

You would have to have hundreds of trucks going around burning the rods

[woven elbow]

peace was never an option

we need an army of doggo

[placid glacier]

If they don’t give me the purple power slug, they get sent to the void

No survivors

We need a doggo unloader that automatically unloads the doggos inventory

For power slug factories

[woven elbow]

whats the relation between doggo and slug?

[placid glacier]

Doggos gave a chance to have power slugs in their inventory

[broken tulip]

I have so much iron potential unused
Like I literally have iron ore not processed with pure iron ingot recipe despite having already unlocked that, and FITS that actually uses pure iron ingot doesn’t use a lot of iron since I made it way too small lmao

[broken tulip]

Which is the only way to get renewable slugs

[placid glacier]

Exactly

Infinite power shard farm

[placid glacier]

You probably don’t even use the pure steel ingot alt

Turns 40 iron bars and 40 coal into 60 steel per minute

Great alt, highly reccomend

[broken tulip]

I’m using that

But I’m not using steel screws and steel rods etc alts

[placid glacier]

Also what are even the point for alt alloy iron and copper recipies if we have pure iron and copper

[broken tulip]

What’s the point of crystal beacons lmao

[placid glacier]

I’m going to use that for my motor factory

[placid glacier]

Sooooo mannnny beacons

[broken tulip]

One thing about solid steel ingots vs coke steel ingots is that coke is practically free

I got cast screws really early which tbh made things much easier

[placid glacier]

I didn’t for some reason

[broken tulip]

Great way to sink iron too

[broken tulip]

I got it on my first drive which is like 300m from my HUB

I was wondering what that flaming thing in the distance is and went to check it out, glad that the modular frames it needs is already available on the site

[placid glacier]

Yeah but for my motor factory I’m using the recipe of copper sheets and wire for rotors, and the standard static recipe

[broken tulip]

Is that more feasible than the iron setup though

[placid glacier]

Makes it so that I just need to turn iron to steel instead of load balancing

And makes it so that the motor setup only takes steel and copper

[broken tulip]

You can make a spreadsheet and put in formulae for the recipes like I did planning out my refinery

[placid glacier]

Yeah I do that (sometimes)

[broken tulip]

I’ll prob do that planning out factory reworks or new factories so I can localize numbers more easily

Fluid bug means that I need to turn a sector or two down at my refinery to refill the pipes and prevent reduced flow rates, since the last thing I want is the fuel generators at the end of the pipelines network to be underfed and tripping on and off and messing up my power readings

[placid glacier]

That is exactly what my fuel plant does

You can just split the fuel line into 2, and make it go through the front and back of the fuel plant

So one goes in and the back, one goes in at the front

[broken tulip]

I can’t turn out fuel generators in batch but I can turn off refineries in my rubber-plastic loop with power switches to bring down 300/min fuel consumption in one action

Currently I do have a pipeline that bypasses all the junctions and connects to the distribution part on the other side, but since upstream there’s Mk II pipe supposed to be operating at 600m3/min throttling flow I can’t allow unfilled pipes - I need this headlift

[hybrid dune]

miner production over 780 is useless right?

[soft scarab]

Correct

[vapid gorge]

Just sink the extra rods 😄

[placid glacier]

Yeah I know

I’m not THAT dumb

Somebody just said that plutonium fuel rods could be used as vehicle fuel

[vapid gorge]

They can! Irradiate the landscape with death cars!

[versed violet]

They arent so bad since they introduced a loop-count refueling. Only pick as many rods as they need for trip (1 or less)

[vapid gorge]

So rods last 5 hours. You'll need SOME fraction of a rod each trip. Would the truck just keep picking up 1 rod even if their current rod isn't used?

[versed violet]

no idea, I can visit my display loop and check how much they used so far

[vapid gorge]

I'd be curious

[frosty owl]

I wonder about that... My attempts (with packaged fuel) didn't go too well :/

I don't think the vehicles use a whole number of fuel to complete a lap.
Eg: station says 4 fuel per lap. You put 4 fuel, truck makes 1 lap. You put other 4 fuel in the station and let the truck keep refilling.
Eventually, the truck either runs out of fuel right before the station, or it piles up fuel (finishes a loop with an entire leftover fuel tank, starting the next lap with 4+1 canisters)

Little testing done, but this is what I got to :(

[paper yacht]

anyone know offhand what the angle of a 2m ramp is ?

[stark bronze]

arctan(0.5)

[paper yacht]

Thanks , was looking for a on screen protractor then started tearing apart my wood shop .

[stark bronze]

well maybe not a protractor but you definitely need a scientific calculator for that

unless the in game one can do trig now

[vapid gorge]

well 4m is a 45 degree right? So 2m is just 22.5?

no wait. Half that

I am very tired

[paper yacht]

now feel silly I could not figure that out oopf!

[stark bronze]

Figure what out?

I just realized me and cobalt both gave wrong answers

Sorry for that

It's arctan(0.25)

[hazy saffron]

14.036

[short holly]

indeed, arctan (2/8) which is about 14 degrees.

[hazy saffron]

@paper yacht

[short holly]

not sure why you need it but a good use for secondary/high school math.

[hazy saffron]

Not even high school math

That's stuff I learned in middle school lmao

Also just Google "side angle side" calc

We know two side lengths and that one angle is 90 degrees

[short holly]

trig is secondary here in UK

(i guessed at high)

[hazy saffron]

A calculator can give you the rest

I learned that in Geometry

[paper yacht]

working with a old mod and needed to zero in to no higher than 2 meter ramp working with elevation/trains

[short holly]

SOH-CAH-TOA is what i learned, before the days of google.

[hazy saffron]

1m ramp is 7.125 and 4m is 26.565

[paper yacht]

i could not find my cheapo dollar store protractor

[hazy saffron]

Also if you want grade percentage too; that one's really easy math.

Rise / run

[oblique hollow]

Refer to the wiki freight car page then

That lists possible allowed train length

[hazy saffron]

Irl: 4% slope for trains bad
Game: lmao 25% let's go

[oblique hollow]

Monorail go brrrrrr

If i remember right they go up to around.... 33% actually

[subtle eagle]

does the perfect (comma/dot-less-)distribution setup exist?

[hazy saffron]

yeah, but with available foundations your options are 25 and 50% (I'm excluding corner foundations as they're a meme to work with)

[oblique hollow]

Foundations dont equal distribution tho

Ooooh that was in regards to the trains still

[oblique hollow]

For?

[subtle eagle]

satisfaction ^^ - the entire game, producing some/min of each highest refined item.

[hazy saffron]

depends on what you mean by "perfect"

[oblique hollow]

There is no real..... Commaless way that is publically known, if those even exist

I suppose that is why over and underclocking exist

[ebon crater]

i mean

i made a factory without underclocking/overclocking

it just has overflows

[frosty owl]

Distribution setup??

[subtle eagle]

I didnt know a word for it - the way you set up your factory line and distribute certain items to other production steps :3

[frosty owl]

Generally speaking, it's not too hard to have setups all at 100% clock as long as you're ok with:
-clocking the miners/extractors differently from 100%
-Scaling the factory so that all the ratios coincide (eg: make more frames/HMF than you would need just to keep the ratios perfect all along the production chain

If you just sink any excess, everything becomes much easier though 😉

[rotund tapir]

Stupid question, didn't SCIM have an option to plan with lower Mk buildings? I can't find it anymore.

Ah, in the "Realistic" view

[vapid gorge]

Not sure. I prefer Satisfactory Tools. It just tells you the raw resources you need. From there I sort out where I can extract that much with what I have

[edgy marsh]

i haven't used drones yet, but am doing a bit of planning. What's the minimum/maximum items/min throughput at which they make sense?

[cedar mica]

Last I tested, cross map travel, was about 170/m throughput, with 1 drone. So its more about how many batterys you are willing to spend

But in general, anything too small to warrant a train, is drone worthy. Note, that is talking about building the train route, not one you already have in place.

[vapid gorge]

I've been informed for safety you probably want 2 drones per 300 parts per min you want to move

and if you need more you'll want to split it across multiple drone ports at both send and receiving

[vapid gorge]

Also because of the long take off/landing times it becomes more efficient the further the distance

[novel carbon]

Does some one knows how can i put my signals so that they can be 2 trains at the same time in this train station ?

[frosty owl]

Make the rail into 2 (or more) blocks

[wicked tinsel]

you need block signals where your green arrows end

and it should kinda work

[edgy marsh]

Thanks, I'm looking to make a 10/min supercomputer factory and was thinking drone would be cleanest way to get them out.

[versed violet]

If you use OC supercomp recipe, you can reuse batteries too.

[vapid gorge]

reuse batteries?

[versed violet]

oc supercomputer alt uses batteries as ingredient, so you have power supply for drones at hand already i using it

[vapid gorge]

you mean superstate comp right?

[rotund tapir]

@last valve sorry for the ping, but I've seen your newest manifold video and still don't see the "smartest" way to do the standard splitter manifold early on... the most efficient principle is getting to make them all work as soon as possible, and that means limiting the numbers of items that go into early splitters - thus: use Mk1 belts only for connecting splitter -> smelter, this way, from the 240 initially, 120 would go to the first smelter, but can't since it's only a Mk1 belt, so only 60 go to the first smelter and 180 go to the second splitter, which means 60 go to the second smelter and 120 go to the third splitter, which means you bring the first 4, maybe even 5 smelters to 100% efficiency immediately.

[wind spade]

that's actually not true

yes, you'll have more machines working early, but the whole manifold will start working at 100% later than if you'd use mk5 belts

this is roughly how it works, but the real graph may look different based on the manifold. Horizontal axis is time, vertical axis is production per minute (of the whole manifold)

blue line is if you use mk1 side belts, red line is when you use mk5 side belts

[rotund tapir]

That's curious, I guess we'll need a video on that

[wind spade]

if you just care about more machines starting early and don't care about the whole manifold working at 100% faster, then sure, mk1 belts will help. But if you want your whole factory to start at 100% as fast as possible, then mk5 (or the highest belt you have) everywhere is the way to go

[vapid gorge]

There's a lot of random stuff in life that is very counterintuitive like that

[oblique hollow]

Thats funny it seems to be a curve of the shape 1-e^(-t/5)

Well.... Almost

But thats probably the ideal curve with infinite belt speed

[vapid gorge]

Splitting question - I'm splitting 50.4 and I need it in 3 even belts. Because I need exact numbers I can't rely on having them start on one belt and then just using 1 splitter right?

[wind spade]

why not?

[oblique hollow]

50.4 does not mean "50 and 2/5 of an item"

It means "1 item ever 1.2 seconds and 1 every 150 seconds"

Splitting that in 3 means:
Each side gets 1 item every 3.6 seconds and one every 450 seconds

Which, tadah, is 16.8 items / min on every output

Aka 50.4/3

[vapid gorge]

@oblique hollow I haven't tried dividing something that absolutely needs to be evenly split before into a mixed belt.

[wind spade]

splitter divides equally if no belt is backed up

[oblique hollow]

Splitters can still do equal splitting, dunno what your concern is

[vapid gorge]

I suppose if there's ever a hiccup or stutter that it mess things up?

[oblique hollow]

Well..... Thats a risk for everything in this game

Accept and move on

[vapid gorge]

well with non mixed belts you just manifold feed until over flow

all you have to worry about is x being produced

[oblique hollow]

Ask the sushi gods on how to make safe sushi then

[vapid gorge]

I'm already cursing Ven. I can't actually have him know I'm sushiing

I have my pride.

[oblique hollow]

I was JUST about to ping him

[vapid gorge]

I've hexxed him. Cursed his name thrice by thrice

[stark bronze]

It's not equal per se
It's called round robin
Which will work with hiccups but not pauses

[oblique hollow]

In any case, short answer: overflow splitters for safety

If you dont trust sushi belt

But the shushi masters seem to trust it enough

[vapid gorge]

uuugghhhhh... yeaaaahhhhhhhh... flops

[oblique hollow]

Either you do some leap of faith and just do it without overflow or you play "anxiety ridden factory monk" and slap saftey measures on everything

Depends on how little you trust splitters to do their job

[vapid gorge]

Actually no. I'll 'trust' them. Either they work and it's fine or I get to berate Ven for his terrible lifestyle choices.

Win win.

[oblique hollow]

Good Choice.

[vapid gorge]

When you can, choose pettyness. It's always the correct choice.

Or spite.

[oblique hollow]

I played the game of trust when i published my pipe manual since if something in there doesnt work, people get to blame me.

But since nobody ever understands pipes they just blame themself and the game

So i win

[vapid gorge]

Essentially whenever I had to do astrophysics things. Just go into extremely specific minutia and people won't admit they don't know what you are talking about even when you don't.

At least when I wasn't prepared anyway XD

Now to rebuild this factory for the 4th time over

[thorny iron]

Good nuclear power plant location?

[hazy saffron]

I put my rod factory in the grass field and the reactors over where the smaller X is

[thorny iron]

I calculated that the max amount of nuclear power plants is 252 producing 630.000 MW

[hazy saffron]

you're forgetting something there

[thorny iron]

What

[hazy saffron]

alt recipes

also the fact that producton of plutonium is dependent on use of uranium fuel rods

[thorny iron]

I already did with alt receipes and without use of plutonium (as a nuclear power plant fuel)

[wind spade]

that then isn't "max amount of nuclear power plants" 😛

[thorny iron]

*without waste

[wind spade]

yeah but waste ins't a big deal anyway

[hazy saffron]

if you don't want waste then you don't get plutonium

[thorny iron]

What are you doing with it

[wind spade]

store it?

[thorny iron]

This is psychological uncomfortable xD

[wind spade]

why so

[hazy saffron]

22.9 uranium fuel rods/minute + 30.54 plutonium rods/minute gives 421 reactors

or 1,050,000-ish MW

[thorny iron]

I got (theoretically) 50,4 uranium fuel rods

[hazy saffron]

it depends on recipes

one of the alt recipes for plutonium sacrifices some uranium fuel rod production for plutonium fuel rod production

but gets you more power in the end

[thorny iron]

But it doesn't have to?

[hazy saffron]

you can do just normal plutonium rods form uranium waste

but I think the yield there is quite a bit lower

[edgy marsh]

how wide are foundations in meters?

[last valve]

I might also try playing around with the balanced manifold that someone on Reddit talked about, taking advantage of all of the outputs on the splitters which would help with the equal distribution items. Maybe the balanced manifold combined with belt limiters could prove fruitful however I envision spaghetti in my future. I see that their are so many ways to handle item distribution.

[rotund tapir]

4x4

actually... is it really? No, disregard that

8x8 is the correct answer

[oblique hollow]

full success on the mk 2 mega pipe

[rotund tapir]

Cast Screw is such a big difference... phew

Are there more recipes which reduce a whole step in production without changing the input material?

[wind spade]

cast screw is pretty small difference compared to pretty much any other alternate recipe

a lot of alternates save you both power and resources, cast screws only save power

[near lion]

Why are my last generators running out of fuel? I shut them down, let them fill but once I get them back on after a while they run out of fuel.
Im using 270 oil, turning it by 9 refineries into 360 of HOR, then into 12 Refineries to make Diluted Packaged fuel which give me 720 fuel. Then with 480 compacted coal and 720 fuel into 600 of turbofuel, which should be able to supply 133 fuel generators.

[wind spade]

do you overproduce fuel?

[near lion]

Here is the conversion setup

I did the math again right now and it checks...

[wind spade]

also, do you loop pipes?

you need to slightly overproduce every fluid

since there is fluid load loss bug - on each game load, you lose 5m3 of fluid for every building connected

[near lion]

In fact I should be able to power 133,33 gens, I have 133.
I dont have looped pipes but I let them filled to 100%.

Do you think the fluid container would help?

[wind spade]

no

and filling pipes to 100% is nice, but you still need to be able to carry all the fuel

and mk2 pipes can't do 600m3

[near lion]

I have 30 generators connected to one pipe, which is 135m3

[wind spade]

are all of them running at 100%?

[near lion]

Yes

[wind spade]

loop the pipes anyway, can't hurt and may help

and I'd suggest overproducing

[near lion]

But those turbfuel refineries are connected with single mk.2 pipe so that can be also the issue

What is the real limit of mk.2 pipes then?

[wind spade]

decreases with pipe length

if you loop it, it shouldn't be an issue

since that essentially makes it into two pipes

[near lion]

Ok I will try to split it then

and loop it

Thank you

[oblique hollow]

thats a lot of fuel lost upon loading the game

[wind spade]

nuclear ftw I guess

[oblique hollow]

also re: pipes cant do 600: #math-and-meta message
Mein Pipes like to disagree

thats the longest noodly ass pipe i made and it does 600 PERFECTLY

the real issue is manifolds

[versed violet]

I have to ask... why is that not shaped like a pipe?

[oblique hollow]

a pipe shaped pipe hmmmm

because lasagna funny

[versed violet]

lasagna is a lie, only ogres have layers!

[timber flare]

Pipe manifolds you say...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/949670327783415808/unknown.png

yabe

[vapid gorge]

What is this for?

[orchid birch]

How would one engineer a 1-5 even split? One source to 5 other points with equal distribution?

[timber flare]

Rather complex but doable

Do a 1-6 even split but merge the 6th back at the start

So 5050 and then 1:3 with a merger at start for the sixth

Imma draw it XD

@orchid birch

[orchid birch]

yep

thanks

[summer fox]

wanting some to double check my maths/logic here. heavy oil into fuel using diluted fuel into turbo fuel produce more and thus more power vs heavy oil straight into turbo fuel using turbo heavy fuel

[vapid gorge]

Yup!

I've only looked at basic TF vs Blended TF and B TF is about 25% more power (though you do spend a bit more in support machinery)

[oblique hollow]

Testing if mk 2 loses throughput after hundreds of meters

They dont. It all comes down to merging flow rates interrupting the mk 2

You know how when you use a merger to merge a full mk 5 belt and a, idk, mk 1 belt onto a mk 5, then the full input mk5 will start stuttering

Because of equal merging priority

[vapid gorge]

Not surprising :\

But good to know I should be able to get very close to 600 using simple pipe manifolds

[oblique hollow]

You can do exactly 600 if you loop it

Since then the backflow makes the input diverge

Its like putting an overflow splitter onto this full mk 5 belt line i talked about

[gaunt kestrel]

Hello

I want to know how to split items perfectly

[wind spade]

either you do balancers to split perfectly or you just use manifolds like this:

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

and let it balance itself. Apart from some starting delay, both setups will work the same, so unless you have a really good reason to deal with balancers, it's just not worth doing imo and manifold is easier

[rotund tapir]

or go rogue extra hard and never use splitters

[thorny iron]

Is there a maximum amount of 1409 power shards and a maximum demand of 1260 shards for resource extraction? (all miners / pressurizer / extractors @250%) without water

[wind spade]

you can get slugs from doggos so technically shards are infinite

also mk3 miner on pure node is only relevant up to 162.5%, which saves a shard

[thorny iron]

I hope they make mark 6 belts

[wind spade]

even mk5 belts have already issues with full throughput, they'd have to figure out what's wrong with that first

[thorny iron]

Or i cheat some 🙃

[wind spade]

also, you most likely won't run out of resources anyway, so mk6 belts wouldn't help much either

[thorny iron]

I also hope they fix fluids/pipes i always have issues with that

[wind spade]

loop pipes and don't run full mk5 belts and you're fine 🙂

[thorny iron]

Wait do mk5 belts have issues? I used them for my caterium wire and wondered why the last assembler is not emptied fast enough

[wind spade]

they have some max throughput loss at each segment

so 1 segment belt is fine, but more segments usually do less than 780

for longer belts safe amount is ~750

[frosty owl]

I think you might have misunderstood what they meant...

BTW, "balanced manifolds" can be used to talk about those manifolds in which the outputs are equal to a belt's max speed, making them auto-balancing if you match the output belts

Eg: a manifold feeding 60 items/min per output via full MK1 belts

[frosty owl]

It's nice to have a confirmation, but I kinda assumed that was the case already...? 😅

I didn't think there wasn't a specific test done for it yet

[wind spade]

isn't there an "issue" where mk1 belts can be limited to 59/do 61?

[frosty owl]

I never heard of belts providing more than their max. Nor does it seems likely to me...
More details?

[wind spade]

iirc there was someone testing this, e.g. putting 480 items into a container that goes via mk4 belt to splitter into mk4 and mk1, each going into another container. You'd expect the mk1 container to have 60 items, but it had more/less

I can't remember the exact setup or the person or whether or not this was fixed, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't always 60

[frosty owl]

Less could be expected. I have zero reasons to believe more items came in though. Not without seeing the setup

[wind spade]

yeah idk, but I think they even talked about results being 63 or smth like that

I guess testing it again would be enough to see if the "bug" is consistent

[frosty owl]

You know that I don't know technical stuff, but I got some in depth experience with the mechanics: nothing leads me to believe this is possible in any (modded or not) scenario I can think of 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

I can take a look if you can link something

[wind spade]

yeah I'm not claiming it's a thing, I just know there was a person who spent a lot of time testing it (but it was around like U2, so may be different now)

[wind spade]

this setup isn't enough?

[frosty owl]

I get it, I'm just explaining why my negative feeling about it is so strong xD

[frosty owl]

I also need to know:

• Number of belt segments between splitter and containers (MK1 and MK4 both)
  -How are the items/min going in the MK1 containers "counted"?
  With this I could get a much better idea

[wind spade]

you count exact amount of items, because you put in exact amount of items by hand

segments idk, but I remember screenshots where they were pretty close, so I guess 1-2

[frosty owl]

How do people normally "just count" how many items/min go in a container, again? 😅
I'm really not familiar with that, I always use other belts for comparison (eg: container outputs full MK1 belt to a machine that consumes 60/min, power draw and inventory of the machine can be observed to find pile-ups or starvings)

[wind spade]

you... open the container and look how many items are in it?

[fierce cypress]

stopwatch

[frosty owl]

After... "exactly a minute"...?

[fierce cypress]

basically

do it a few times and get a rough estimate

[wind spade]

no. you put in 1 minute worth of items in first container

[fierce cypress]

but how do you work out 1 min worth of items?

[wind spade]

mk4 belt = 480

[fierce cypress]

but in the context of the items =/= belt speed

[vapid gorge]

Oh nice, just loop before the actual manifold bit? Neat. Do you make the loop travel under or over the main manifold or does it not matter?

[fierce cypress]

that wouldnt work

[frosty owl]

So, 540 items in container 1, expected 60 in container MK1 and 480 in container MK4, right?

[wind spade]

for example

[frosty owl]

All this tests for is how items are split. There is NO WAY from the data to make sure that (even if 63 items made it to container MK1) the MK1 belt ever transported more than 60/min
Ot could just be the MK4 lagging behind

[vapid gorge]

You can get around the throughput loss from having belt segments by only making it to splitter or machines

Or by welding belt sections together

[frosty owl]

Eg: MK4 belt has 4 belt segments and backs up (normal max throughout behaviour). This results in less than 480 items reaching container MK4 and more than 60 reaching the other

[wind spade]

how would mk4 lag behind if it isn't full

[thorny iron]

I already fixed my problem by balancing the load better on 3x Mk 5 belts (max 630 per belt)

[vapid gorge]

That was more about issues running any mk belt at max speed

[oblique hollow]

I think the max speed issue is why sometimes smart splitters set to overflow "by mistake" send items on the overflow line

If the belt is full

[hazy saffron]

this shouldn't be too difficult to test

[frosty owl]

If you mean it like "issue is why a smart splitter on a full belt (with multiple segments) sometimes outputs an (overflow) item even with a sink down the line", I agree xD

[oblique hollow]

Yes

That

[hazy saffron]

I've seen that happen with my sorting system

[oblique hollow]

Well now you know why

[hazy saffron]

it's usually one one out of like 10k items but it happens occasionally

[oblique hollow]

Pipes seem surprisingly stable over distance, concerning flow cap

Only issue, like always, is junctions

[frosty owl]

That's quite literally how we tested for the bug initially 😆
Source-belt-smort(with omcontainer for overflow)-belt with many segments-sink

Btw, did you catch that one video about the "hidden issues" with back merging (like to reduce 270 to 150) @oblique hollow ?

[oblique hollow]

Hmmm nope

[frosty owl]

It's the kind of thing where I went "how did I never notice "
https://youtu.be/v4j8pw7L5b8

[frosty owl]

Sorry if I took so long to get back to you, my phone died 😅
In the example we were using, weren't we pushing 540/min into a MK4 and a MK1 belt?
So both should be full

[wind spade]

no, because the input belt is mk4 as well

[hazy saffron]

ran that test

[wind spade]

it's basically to test a setup "mk4/5 main belt and splitting 60/min with mk1s"

[hazy saffron]

left crate ended with 417 items and right with 63 items

[frosty owl]

With a normal splitter (both @wind spade and @hazy saffron ), right?

[hazy saffron]

ideally left should have 420 and right should have 60

lmao pinging the wrong person there

[wind spade]

yeah

[frosty owl]

I'd have guessed >420 and <60 instead ahah

But still, it can be an issue with the ratio of the split 🤷‍♂️ (that's where my money go)
It doesn't prove MORE than 60/min go through the MK1, it only shows how many items go in each direction (missing the time)

[hazy saffron]

that test was with smart splitter set to output items to right with overflow to center (or left in the case of looking at output containers)

[frosty owl]

Btw, it's already known that splitters that don't output on belts ALL with the same MK won't split evenly

[hazy saffron]

testing with a normal splitter right now

[frosty owl]

Which output is what MK?

[hazy saffron]

right is mk 1

left is mk 4? whichever is 480/min

and I'm putting exactly 480 concrete in the input

[frosty owl]

Then 63 items make sense. The splitter filled the MK1 belt, hogged 3 items, sent the overflow down the MK4 and finally sent the 3 items down the MK1 when the input was dry

[hazy saffron]

i forgot how ungodly slow mk 1 belts are

normal splitter is resulting in 420/60

[wind spade]

this is the setup just to be clear

[hazy saffron]

yes, that's what I have

although I have a curve in my output belt

[wind spade]

(bottom belt is mk1)

[frosty owl]

No misunderstanding on that 👌 (S is NORMAL splitter)

[wind spade]

yeah just wanted to be sure that we're all on same page

actually I wonder if smart splitter with overflow would change anything

[frosty owl]

Should we assume all output belts are 1 segment long or not?

[hazy saffron]

got 417/63 over three runs with a smart splitter and 420/60 over three runs with a normal splitter

[wind spade]

yeah 1 segment so that throughput loss is not a thing

[hazy saffron]

one segment being no conveyor poles, right?

[frosty owl]

It makes sure one belt is full (if input allows it) regardless of the other outputs

Eg: splitting 480 with a normal splitter on MK2, 3 and 4 belts assures an uneven split, smart splitter can "force" some belts to be full sending overflow on other)

[frosty owl]

A belt you can dismantle as one item

[hazy saffron]

yeah that's what I have here

[frosty owl]

So yeah, in conclusion, I don't think this example is enough to prove MK1 belts can handle more than 60/min
There are plenty of counterexamples too, after all

[hazy saffron]

i don't think it even gets close to proving that

it proves they can handle ~60/minute at most

I just filled the input crate completely, in the end there should be 1500 items in the right crate

the test will take 25 minutes to complete

(using concrete because that was the first stack of 500 that came to mind)

[frosty owl]

This makes me remember how hard it is to even smart-split 60/min reliably on a MK1 belt from a mk4 or higher...
The overflow buffer (3 items) is too small

[hazy saffron]

reject conveyors

just move things manually; no need to worry about throughput loss when barely have throughput to begin with

[frosty owl]

Practical example: sushifold feeding a row of 6 refineries. 3 pure iron, 2 pure copper, 1 pure caterium.
Iron refineries get MK2 belts (they need <110 each) and work fine
Copper refineries get MK1 belts (they need <30 each)and work fine
Caterium refinery gets a MK1 belt (needs 60/min) and starves
Provided on the sushi belt: Iron 360, Copper 180, Caterium 180

[wind spade]

what's the reason behind using low level belts anyway?

[frosty owl]

Just aesthetic
But in the case of the 60/min output, it can be nice to be able to output a set amount

Nerdy details: ||I wanted all the refineries to start as soon as possible at startup (convenient to kickstart delicate sushi productions), so using low MK belts allow for that.||

[hazy saffron]

dunno about that situation but my HMF factory needs exactly 270 concrete/minute

[wind spade]

yeah, just sounds like another "I'm using lower level belts for no practical reason at all and I'm having issues with them" issue that's easily solved by upgrading belts 😄

[hazy saffron]

and I'm using a sushi manifold for it; mk 3 belt works as an excellent rate limiter from the train station

although it looks really weird compared to the rest being Mk 5 belts

[frosty owl]

No, being able to output a specific amount from a belt can be quite important imo
As important as the generic "I want exactly 60/120/270 of this item/min from this belt" can be ^^

[wind spade]

99% of "I want exactly X" is "machine behind wants exactly X, but if you provide more, manifold mechanics will take care of it" 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

If all nuclear processes fall into that 1%, I don't think I can come up with anything that can raise that percentage at the top of my head (not any reasons that "everyone" could appreciate at least)

[wind spade]

well I was talking more about people in discord requesting "exactly X balancer"

and not everybody balances nuclear anyway

so I think 1% is a pretty good guess

[frosty owl]

At the very least, whenever one attempts mixed belts together with load-balancing these mechanics become relevant imo

[wind spade]

which isn't large amount of people 😄

[hazy saffron]

using seperate manifolds for concrete in my HMF factory would just make it more annoying to set up

not using the mk 3 belt as a rate limiter would flood the sushi manifolds with concrete; backing up delivery of other things

it works incredibly well

[frosty owl]

If you're interested in a very practical example (I got some screens and such), you could try calculating the time needed to go from 0 to 100 for the following manifold 😁:

MK5 main belt with 429 Iron Ingots/min feeds (in order)
-4 Iron Wire Constructors. Input 30x4 = 120/min.
-2 Soild Ingot Foundries. Input 2x62.1 = 124.2/min.
-1 Iron Wire Constructor. Input 16/min.
-2 Iron Wire Constructors. Input 2x30 = 60/min
-1 Iron Rod Constructor. Input 7.2/min.
-1 Iron Plates Constructor. Input 32.4/min
Sidebelts may be the highest MK ||I'll allow that much ||

[hazy saffron]

update on this

the expected number of items ended up in each container

also i did math wrong somewhere; right container should have ended up with 1500

dunno where I got 1200