#math-and-meta | Satisfactory | Page 589

soft scarab Dec 31, 2021, 4:31 PM

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Also just want to say this map is beautiful Taromani, love it

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:31 PM

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Truck station won't fit below the structure, I'm looking at the spaces where I have belts to see if I can at least thread through them and get as far as the void shaft, from there it's a non issue

wintry aurora Dec 31, 2021, 4:31 PM

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I've had that happen like here where I put RIP over here, but I ended up needing them all the way over there at that assembler stack. Granted it's a much smaller scale.

digital fractal Dec 31, 2021, 4:32 PM

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Do you draw those pictures yourself

soft scarab Dec 31, 2021, 4:32 PM

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cinder silo Truck station won't fit below the structure, I'm looking at the spaces where I h...

Are those not roads next to the structures?

frosty owl Dec 31, 2021, 4:32 PM

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Realistically, I'd try making all the non-radioactive items needed for the rods in the same complex, so you can just send them on a single belt (iirc they should all fit on a mk5)

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:33 PM

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That road goes through that, and the plutonium fuel rod facility is in the void 😛

frosty owl Dec 31, 2021, 4:33 PM

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digital fractal Do you draw those pictures yourself

jacelul checkpins 🇸 🇨 🇮 🇲

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I wish I could draw that well jace_smile

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:34 PM

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Down there.

frosty owl Dec 31, 2021, 4:35 PM

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Drone them jace_smile

soft scarab Dec 31, 2021, 4:35 PM

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Wow 😍

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:36 PM

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All I need to do is get the belt to that column, the rest is already set up below.

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The small scale aluminium factory blew up to be larger than I expected which is why the heat sinks ended up so far away.

near zenith Dec 31, 2021, 4:37 PM

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taro, has your acid plant for the nuc setup been giving you any problems? for some reason the water backflow from the non fissile uranium into the nitric acid never seems to believe 216 out = 216 in

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:38 PM

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near zenith taro, has your acid plant for the nuc setup been giving you any problems? for s...

I solved that problem by drawing spare coal, building seven coal stations to take up the waste water & building three more water extractors for the sulphuric acid in-feed.

near zenith Dec 31, 2021, 4:38 PM

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rofl, yea, that'll do it

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:39 PM

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The general acid refinery was a disaster that kept clogging so when I realised there was spare coal at the nearby aluminium plant, the problem practically solved itself.

near zenith Dec 31, 2021, 4:40 PM

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yea, i'm getting irked at my current setup, every time i turn around it's breaking on me, dunno if i want to spend time actually fixing it properly or just keep bandaiding it with the inflow valve i have from another water pipe

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:40 PM

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On paper my loop should have been perfect, 315 water in, 315 nitric acid out, 315 wastewater back, 315 sulphuric acid out, but in reality it choked hard.

near zenith Dec 31, 2021, 4:40 PM

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yea... stupid paper, always lying

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:41 PM

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So now it's 630 water in, split between two pipes, 315 out going to generate electricity via the seven coal stations taking 45 each.

near zenith Dec 31, 2021, 4:41 PM

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👍

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:42 PM

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To make it look right, I needed to move the existing water pipe over 2 metres to fit the second one in, and expand the tiny water pump house by 40% to take the extra extractors.

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That's a copper mine.

near zenith Dec 31, 2021, 4:43 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/seven-brad-pitt-box-whats-in-the-box-gif-3386206

Tenor

What's in the box!

▶ Play video

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and of course there's no coal near the edge of the swamp, so, yep, time to ignore this problem till i remember it again

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:45 PM

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The copper mine 🙂

sinful knoll Dec 31, 2021, 4:45 PM

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Jeez looks like a silicon die

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:46 PM

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That is about 75% of my nuclear infrastructure.

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The other 25% is here.

sinful knoll Dec 31, 2021, 4:48 PM

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Is that a CPU 😂

wintry aurora Dec 31, 2021, 4:49 PM

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Looks vaguely like one, yea.

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:49 PM

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Just a map of all that.

wintry aurora Dec 31, 2021, 4:49 PM

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CPU shaped anyway.

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:53 PM

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The rest of it is down there.

sinful knoll Dec 31, 2021, 4:56 PM

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Prison colony

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 4:58 PM

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I hadn't thought of the object limit, I'm hoping I don't hit it especially when the power store tower goes up.

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I should get some objects back from that limit when I decommission the turbo fuel & the existing power store.

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 5:08 PM

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cinder silo Just a map of all that.

i usually scoff at people who build big flat platforms, but seeing the underside of yours - thats pretty cool. I like the style.

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And it does still flow around the landscape, even if it dominates it in other ways -which is pretty on theme for a megafactory situation.

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(and I doubt object limit will be an issue for you, as you dont seem to do be doing any insane decorating things like a 100 beams to make some design on every window)

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 5:10 PM

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The biggest decoration thing is the walkways and their railings, It is fairly spartan beyond that 🙂

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Once all the conveyors and the like are set in stone, I can complete the underside of the structures and install the supports so they don't have that needless floating look.

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 5:11 PM

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Why'd you choose the Grassy Plains? any particular reason? Most of the time I see mega/giga factories in the Dunes

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 5:12 PM

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Grassy plains made some sense since that is my nuclear setup, the waterfall up top feeding the power stations there, and the reprocessing built at the bottom of that waterfall.

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 5:12 PM

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cinder silo Once all the conveyors and the like are set in stone, I can complete the undersi...

Yah - Most of my buildgs are circular hang off cliffs on the edge of the savanah, and they all need supports but im wiating till im finished with belt/transportation/logistics

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 5:15 PM

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I'm very slowly threading a conveyor through the undersides of the place so I can get heat sinks where they're needed 🙂

frosty owl Dec 31, 2021, 5:23 PM

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cinder silo On paper my loop should have been perfect, 315 water in, 315 nitric acid out, 31...

My guess is: the nitric acid and sulphuric acids ran out first (more machines using those, so more load loss), so the wastewater start being underproduced, causing the sulphuric acid production to starve even more, causing the byproduct water to be produced even less until the system is full of nitric acid but with no sulphuric acid and byproduct water
Close?

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 5:25 PM

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I'm actually not sure, All I saw was the neighboring particle accelerators & blenders quit, I went over to the refinery to find not only was the loop full of waste water, the sulphuric acid refineries that were fed exclusively by that waste water decided to stop producing even though water & sulphur were there, clogging the entire thing.

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Eventually with nearby coal going begging I decided to use the coal generators to sink the excess fluid and just rely on new feed for the sulphuric acid, that way I don't get a loop based crash that would knock out my whole nuclear chain when I swap to it for exclusive power.

frosty owl Dec 31, 2021, 5:27 PM

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Sounds like you ran out of nitrogen for some reason 🤔 (unless the nitric acid refineries just broke somehow)

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 5:28 PM

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I assumed it was an issue with the vip connecting the waste feed to the acid refinery, but there isn't much going wrong in the design

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I'm overproducing nitrogen by about 400, it's just crazy.

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Bleh wrong vip junction pic but the general acid refinery used an identical one.

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 5:31 PM

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cinder silo Eventually with nearby coal going begging I decided to use the coal generators t...

I feel like its not a bad idea to always have some sort of overflow waste usage in these systems - even if they arent planned to be on/used much, something to catch too much overflow to prevent locks

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 5:32 PM

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The seven coal stations use exactly the 315 waste water so the issue ended up completely solved, I feel the closed loops would have been more elegant, but the failure mode when it's something as critical as power is a catastrophic mess.

chilly hazel Dec 31, 2021, 6:45 PM

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I'm sorry if this is a stupid question but.... I just got a coal generator running, and I decided to make another, so I just split my pipe right before my buffer thinking that the buffer should help maintain my water pressure for my original plant to keep it running while any excess runs downhill to my secondary one

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Now i'm running into cap issues. Both generators are max overclocked

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I flushed the whole system so I could diagnose my issue, and now I can't get any water at all into my buffer

static venture Dec 31, 2021, 6:46 PM

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In terms of power generation you are almost always better off constructing additional generators instead of overclocking them

chilly hazel Dec 31, 2021, 6:47 PM

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Does the math work out when you overclock it just burns more resources for little return?

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That's something I wondered

static venture Dec 31, 2021, 6:48 PM

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https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Clock_speed#Clock_speed_for_power_generators

Satisfactory Wiki

Clock speed

Clock speed - Official Satisfactory Wiki

chilly hazel Dec 31, 2021, 6:49 PM

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Lol as I typed this, my main coal plant started working intermittently. Grid looks something like this /_/_

static venture Dec 31, 2021, 6:49 PM

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250% clock speed on your coal generator will only result in 202.35% increase in resource consumption and power generation

chilly hazel Dec 31, 2021, 6:49 PM

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Something didn't work

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I'll remove the power slug things

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I'm going to just make more plants then lol

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 7:50 PM

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And finally!, heat sinks have arrived 😄

wet yacht Dec 31, 2021, 7:55 PM

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Are any of these particularly good and I'm just not realizing it?

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I'm thinking Compacted Coal, but I'm not sure

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Cuz compacted coal is just normal coal that is more efficient, right?

versed violet Dec 31, 2021, 7:58 PM

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compacted unlocks some other recipes to be found.

wet yacht Dec 31, 2021, 8:00 PM

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Oh shit, right?

wintry aurora Dec 31, 2021, 8:01 PM

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I wouldn't say it's more efficient than regular coal, but it has it's uses.

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 8:03 PM

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Turbo fuel for one, though its use is debatable, or even avoidable if going nuclear.

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Fused quick wire also has a use if you have spare copper and can't be doing with moving caterium to where you're working.

versed violet Dec 31, 2021, 9:30 PM

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Whyyyyy are electric switches hard clearance?

wicked tinsel Dec 31, 2021, 9:31 PM

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a lot of stuff that shouldnt be is 🤷‍♂️

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why are lamps hard clearance?

oblique hollow Dec 31, 2021, 9:52 PM

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oh oops

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classic discord moment

wet yacht Dec 31, 2021, 10:40 PM

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Ok thank you. This is my first time being this far in the game

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And I feel like I didn't really build anything significant because I focused on teching-up research

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Yeah, that's what I figured. I just unlocked Phase 4 for the Space Elevator

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 10:49 PM

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wet yacht And I feel like I didn't really build anything significant because I focused on ...

but there is no reason to hurry either if you dont want to. As Sevrahn says, its a solid plan if you dont like rebuilding. Or your like me, 325 hours in, still havent unlocked trains, rebuilding an entire 2 biome transport network cause i didnt like how it looked 🤷

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 10:50 PM

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I'm test firing my nuclear build that I've spent more than a month on, finally seeing plutonium rods reaching the sink now 😄

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 10:50 PM

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on my fourth restart of the world too

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 10:50 PM

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I can relax & slow down, no must rush before spire coast changes get announced 🤣

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 10:51 PM

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Similarly, Since it will take me dozens upon dozens of hours to build something, I dont mind using say... Turbofuel, because it will work just fine and ill get 50-100+ hours out of it before I even start planning a nuclear facility ... lol. My philosophy is to build the thing that then lets you build the thing so you can destroy the old thing to build the new thing the first new thing enabled you to build.... 🤣

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(no one says mine is effecient though. Never mistake that :p)

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 10:52 PM

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The first few plutonium rods from my waste free setup, I'm just sitting by watching it 🙂

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I understand that fully, I will skip turbo fuel when I next start a world.

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 10:53 PM

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Fusion Batteries when?

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You dont want Nuclear powered trucks?

pulsar idol Dec 31, 2021, 10:53 PM

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Whats the mats cost for a 10 nuclear power plant?

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 10:54 PM

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i really wonder how tiny these Plutonium Rods really are. considering a 12 foot nuclear rod lasts about 6 years and ours last ... what... less than a minute? :p

pulsar idol Dec 31, 2021, 10:54 PM

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Normal rate

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 10:54 PM

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pulsar idol Whats the mats cost for a 10 nuclear power plant?

🙂

thorn bane Dec 31, 2021, 10:54 PM

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with blenders?
im kinda looking for a good midgame power source since packaged diluted duel and def. turbofuel both kinda suck

pulsar idol Dec 31, 2021, 10:55 PM

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cinder silo 🙂

Yokess

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 10:55 PM

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by that time all those things should be well automated and really producing if you want/need nuclear

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 10:56 PM

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I'm moving from a super sized turbo fuel to the nuclear I'm just testing now.

pulsar idol Dec 31, 2021, 10:56 PM

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How much power is a 10 nuclear power plant give?

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 10:56 PM

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25000mw.

pulsar idol Dec 31, 2021, 10:56 PM

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Ok

thorn bane Dec 31, 2021, 10:58 PM

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i just feel like the loop takes so much time that its not really worth since its temporary anyway

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hm ive been thinking of maybe just making alot of rubber and pet. coke coal gens

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 10:59 PM

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Even with my radiation planning, there is one place in my reprocessing setup I can't go without a hazard suit, where manufacturers make plutonium fuel rods themselves, everything else is perfectly safe.

thorn bane Dec 31, 2021, 10:59 PM

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yee i just want something until turboblend fuel

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i always wait unil warte recycling and particle accelerators take alot if power

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 11:01 PM

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That's a point, I haven't checked my power usage since I onlined the whole thing.

thorn bane Dec 31, 2021, 11:01 PM

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ye dilited fuel and turboblend are very very close

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xD

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 11:02 PM

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I'm well in good order 🙂 , decommissioning the turbo fuel when I can get around to demolition is definitely a go.

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How do you plan to start up the nukes ? 🙂 , this has got to be good.

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That'll be rough, open the taps and hope to hell there is enough fuel and gens to get the nukes rolling before it goes tits up.

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 11:05 PM

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thorn bane i just feel like the loop takes so much time that its not really worth since its...

yeah but ... how long is temporary? a few hours? Yeah not worth it. dozens of hours of game play over a couple weeks? Maybe...

thorn bane Dec 31, 2021, 11:05 PM

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10-20h id guess?

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 11:05 PM

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I'm still testing the nuclear grid to ensure I got all the kinks out of the system 🙂

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 11:05 PM

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your call on your time spent tho. Its kind of a personal calculation that no one can say for you.

thorn bane Dec 31, 2021, 11:06 PM

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until nuclear

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 11:06 PM

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yeah, use the lasso

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its one of the drop down selections

thorn bane Dec 31, 2021, 11:06 PM

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oblique notch your call on your time spent tho. Its kind of a personal calculation that no one...

well im asking for the most optimal time efficient way

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 11:07 PM

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Seeing conveyor lifts dropping and retrieving stuff in the waste processing room is quite hypnotic.

oblique notch Dec 31, 2021, 11:07 PM

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thorn bane well im asking for the most optimal time efficient way

Yeah thats what i mean. If its going to take you 10-20 hours just to set it up and then spend the next 10-20 hours immediatly setting up Nuclear or something... totally not wroth your time. throw something slapdash together with some awesome sinks to kill the byproducts if you need extra power

thorn bane Dec 31, 2021, 11:08 PM

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no i mean it runs for 10-20h because then i have nuclear xD

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ye def fuel is kinda dope

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i dont like resiudal fuel its sooo many machines

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 11:10 PM

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Keeping a can with 200 uranium rods in it cut my start up time from 5 minutes to 15 seconds 😄

thorn bane Dec 31, 2021, 11:11 PM

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arent they super far?
i always use the one near crater lake

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thats super far o.O

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i use the one you see north on that map
super close

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 11:17 PM

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I'm kind of waiting on the spire coast change, I would love to relocate my refineries there after the turbo fuel power station is taken down.

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Were it not for the spire coast changes in the future, I wouldn't have gone nuts with nuclear.

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My nuclear site has it's own independent aluminium refinery that uses only 300 bauxite, separate from the half built monster on the east coast.

wintry aurora Dec 31, 2021, 11:20 PM

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I'm not at the point where I feel like I need or want nuclear yet.

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 11:21 PM

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I took down the factory that processed the east coasts ingots because the thing was built in the mesa on the eastern border of the dunes, another place as far as I know is getting a rework.

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The 5.25 plutonium rods I produce per minute would be barely worth burning.

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It would take a major rework of my entire nuclear setup, swapping to some alts, going from blenders to manufacturers with the encased cells and so on to up my nuclear fuel output.

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This is the very first time I've entertained nuclear at all though, when all is said and done, I think I did ok with it 🙂

cinder silo Dec 31, 2021, 11:47 PM

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I stayed the course after building my encased uranium cells setup, I didn't feel like demolishing 42 blenders and it's infrastructure, in hindsight I could have done it better.

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I probably could just burn the plutonium I do produce, there wouldn't be a whole lot of waste from it but I think I'd only get a handful of nukes running off 5 per minute.

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That is an issue for future me, assuming I need the extra power.

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Lol, the to-do list won't list the need for 32000 power stores worth of mats for the next project 😄

fringe pawn Jan 1, 2022, 12:38 AM

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That's a lot of stators to stockpile

versed violet Jan 1, 2022, 12:50 AM

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Use plut rods to run your trucks. Burn the freed fuel for power. No waste!

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Q: Is it still a sushi belt, if I'm using smart splitters?

wintry aurora Jan 1, 2022, 12:53 AM

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Just needs to be a mixed belt.

versed violet Jan 1, 2022, 12:55 AM

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I have belt carrying almost all fixmass things through my wreath-factory-gift-box, siphoning the branches and ornaments, then merging the output to same belt midway. I suppose that qualifies?

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is there any way to avoid the smart splitters? It gets quite clunky to set them up then set the filter in each one

wintry aurora Jan 1, 2022, 12:58 AM

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Nope, have to use smart/programmable splitters in order to sort it, and I agree, it's clunky to set up without a copy/paste function.

versed violet Jan 1, 2022, 1:13 AM

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the 'feed machine with single input' method?

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while this is awesome in theory, I do not trtust my belts to be well behaved like that

wintry aurora Jan 1, 2022, 1:15 AM

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Assuming only the components are on there.

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I think I tried that back un u3 with a manifold, ended up not working.

fringe pawn Jan 1, 2022, 1:43 AM

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A 'mistakes ISC' may be something I do on all lines regardless of type going forward. If something ends up in there, you know you have a problem.

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 1:48 AM

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Time for me to reload, rip out another VIP that was in a mission critical area and build four coal plants to siphon water .... talk about unreliable, runs fine for a whole lot of hours then chokes up twice in four minutes.

versed violet Jan 1, 2022, 1:53 AM

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embrace the power of dedicated recycling refineries!

surreal dune Jan 1, 2022, 2:15 AM

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how on earth do you efficiently feed 50.4 Fuel rods/min into 126 Reactors?

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 2:15 AM

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That refinery is tiny, on purpose, it uses two whole refineries, one for baux the other for scrap, Fortunately there is 600 coal on the belt and only 285 is being used so I can spare 60 right off the refinery to burn the water off via coal generators.

versed violet Jan 1, 2022, 2:38 AM

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surreal dune how on earth do you efficiently feed 50.4 Fuel rods/min into 126 Reactors?

pure split, or pre-fill

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 3:34 AM

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versed violet pure split, or pre-fill

No idea, he never responded, I'd assume using a balancer for radiation reasons, but who knows 😵‍💫

versed violet Jan 1, 2022, 3:38 AM

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cinder silo No idea, he never responded, I'd assume using a balancer for radiation reasons, ...

I actually have a 'smart splitter' setup for lower radiation.
Smart splitter at every reactor, with main output to overflow.
This ensures the reactors get filled in order.
The main belt is mk 5, so any 'extra' rods besides the 50 + couple at entrance zip past.
At the end, I loop it back to temp storage, which feeds the whole plant via mk1 belt. The overflow gets sunk.
This way the radiation at each reactor is small enough that you can walk beside them.

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 3:40 AM

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versed violet I actually have a 'smart splitter' setup for lower radiation. Smart splitter at ...

I went with a 1-100 load balancer for that, was a pain to come up with what amounts to eleven 1-5 balancers connected with 25 pairs of 2 ways, It works perfectly but I still haven't figured out how.

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After my initial prime, and connect the fuel, each reactor always has two fuel rods, no more no less.

versed violet Jan 1, 2022, 3:41 AM

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I just decided -pre-fill was easier. Not running all of the nukes at once yet. I have control room to turn them on in stages.

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 3:42 AM

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Load balance looks kind of a tangle from overhead because scim also shows the waste belt on the same level 😵‍💫

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I made damned sure to test the thing in a variety of ways with 100 concrete before I hooked up and tried to run the thing with fuel rods, 1 bag at each out every time 😄

versed violet Jan 1, 2022, 3:45 AM

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does the current splitter state gets saved by game, or it can rest at game load?

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 3:45 AM

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I actually don't know, I still don't fully understand the mechanics of that monstrosity I created.

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If it didn't the power station issue would self correct within 5 minutes, the bit I'm not fond of the idea of is some stations would have 1 extra fuel rod, it isn't much but I'm pretty sure a non saved state error like that would eventually cause some stations to be radioactive as fuck.

versed violet Jan 1, 2022, 3:49 AM

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even full 50 rods stack and some on belt do not make them that much radioactive

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 3:49 AM

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I shouldn't be touring the place much when it's running anyway, I do hope the splitter balance state saves 😄

versed violet Jan 1, 2022, 3:56 AM

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Guess I remembered wrong, start taking damage when closer than 1 wall above the top of power plant.

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 3:57 AM

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Mine when it's going, you have to clip inside the reactor building to take damage, if it stays that way or not depends on the splitter state saving between sessions.

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Another use for signs, one giant post it note to log in next to between game sessions 😄

wintry aurora Jan 1, 2022, 4:26 AM

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How did you get it to do that?

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Looks like an assemblage of various shaped signs.

oblique notch Jan 1, 2022, 7:26 AM

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wintry aurora Looks like an assemblage of various shaped signs.

its just one of the background options

fierce ruin Jan 1, 2022, 8:44 AM

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@wintry aurora@cinder siloRSS?

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i know this channel aint for mods, but i think thats RSS, really simple signs mod lol

frosty owl Jan 1, 2022, 9:32 AM

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versed violet does the current splitter state gets saved by game, or it can rest at game load?

Funnily enough, it's saved

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I say "funny" since fluids clearly have load bugs instead hehe

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 9:35 AM

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frosty owl Funnily enough, it's saved

That's the best news I've read considering how complex my nuclear load balancer is 😄 ❤️

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 9:37 AM

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wintry aurora Looks like an assemblage of various shaped signs.

It is a large billboard using one of the background options, I just used it as a huge reminder post it note 🙂

frosty owl Jan 1, 2022, 9:46 AM

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cinder silo That's the best news I've read considering how complex my nuclear load balancer ...

This sort of setup took surprisingly long to break and survives loading even on different hardware (they might break due to precision issues depending on design iirc)
#math-and-meta message

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 9:48 AM

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That's some serious testing, I'm guessing any error rate at the power station will be a very slow burn if any thanks to it only being 21 parts per minute.

frosty owl Jan 1, 2022, 9:56 AM

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Yep, non-full belts shouldn't have any splitting issue, period (imo)
I blame the screen's system's failure on trying to split a full mk5 in two MK4s. Having all mk5 or maybe MK4 in, MK5 out would probably have kept it going

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A MK1 similar example I made merged copper and limestone and "dumb split" (with a normal splitter) the resulting MK1 belt to a smelter and a constructor. I ran that for 30+ hours before dismantling it and never saw it fail

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 10:02 AM

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Nice to have some good news 🙂 , I had two critical VIP's randomly quit working seemingly random, and after 4-8 hours of normal operation, since I absolutely cannot afford those to quit as it's a part of my nuclear power infrastructure, I pulled the plug on them and sunk the excess water using coal generators, seven and four respectively.

frosty owl Jan 1, 2022, 10:42 AM

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Yep, so I've heard (I do some lurking~), but I'm not free enough to offer checking them out 😅 😆

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I'd like to make sure wether they fail for user error or 'just because" one day~

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 10:53 AM

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This one was the worst of the two, a completely idiot proof piece of piping at a micro refinery caused a massive radiological incident after it spontaneously stopped working after 4h of smooth operation

frosty owl Jan 1, 2022, 12:00 PM

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I suspect connecting the junction directly to a floor hole could have made things a bit weird thinking_helmet (since the shape might not be exactly what the McGalleon tested for or just because "floor hole buggy")
Alternatively, leaving some very small pipe segments (like the ones between the valves and the junctions) may cause issues...
So yeah, I see a few reasons why it might have not worked 😅

#

I could very well be wrong, ofc

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 4:01 PM

#

That floor hole wasn't actually involved in anything, I clip through them not connect them just to make pipes look less terrible.

hardy plaza Jan 1, 2022, 4:28 PM

#

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=umlHyBKuk7bhAjCbCbNX hahaha im gonna die

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

wintry aurora Jan 1, 2022, 4:32 PM

#

hardy plaza https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=umlHyBKuk7bhAjCbCbNX hahaha i...

Why are you even producing screws in excess?

hardy plaza Jan 1, 2022, 4:32 PM

#

wintry aurora Why are you even producing screws in excess?

Storage stuff

wintry aurora Jan 1, 2022, 4:32 PM

#

You don't even need to store screws for anything, lolwut.

#

The only thing you need them for outside of handcrafting is the awesome store.

hardy plaza Jan 1, 2022, 4:33 PM

#

Oh wait u right

#

Im dumb

wintry aurora Jan 1, 2022, 4:34 PM

#

I'd also try to find recipes that cut down on screw usage as that's a good chunk of the constructors.

#

Or steel screws at least.

hardy plaza Jan 1, 2022, 4:35 PM

#

I Need to do hard drive hunting first

static venture Jan 1, 2022, 6:17 PM

#

Would you say you've elevated your truck route?

#

Once I'm done with ficsmas I'm going to tear down and redo my crude oil with overclocked extractors 😄

soft scarab Jan 1, 2022, 6:26 PM

#

I think we need a video or at least screenshots 😄

static venture Jan 1, 2022, 6:27 PM

#

Can't be as bad as my ficsmas factory lmao

soft scarab Jan 1, 2022, 6:51 PM

#

No more long windy roads up and down cliffs, now I’ll just hurtle my trucks through the air to get where they’re going 😂😂😂

wintry aurora Jan 1, 2022, 6:51 PM

#

For snowballs which stack to 500, a ppm of 200 would fill an ISC in 2 hours, right? Just checking if math is right, and trying to decide how much I want to do.

soft scarab Jan 1, 2022, 6:51 PM

#

Yes

frosty owl Jan 1, 2022, 6:52 PM

#

105 minutes

wintry aurora Jan 1, 2022, 6:52 PM

#

I'm trying to math off of the SCIM planner as it's the only one with the christmas stuff (yea yea, heresey, I know)

soft scarab Jan 1, 2022, 6:52 PM

#

I got 120 mins. 48 slots * 500 per slot = 24,000 total items, / 200 per min = 120 mins

wintry aurora Jan 1, 2022, 6:53 PM

#

That's my math too.

frosty owl Jan 1, 2022, 6:54 PM

#

cinder silo That floor hole wasn't actually involved in anything, I clip through them not co...

Mhh, that's still a bit sketchy to me thinking_helmet
I wouldn't trust doing a VIP with pipes that aren't completely horizontal (at least in the involved segments) or has very short pipe segments

frosty owl Jan 1, 2022, 6:55 PM

#

soft scarab I got 120 mins. 48 slots * 500 per slot = 24,000 total items, / 200 per min = 12...

Checks out, I (erroneously) did 42 slots

wintry aurora Jan 1, 2022, 6:57 PM

#

But then, I'm not sure how many ISCs I'll actually make, even just one might last a whole year, no idea.

frosty owl Jan 1, 2022, 6:58 PM

#

I doubt I've thrown more than a couple hundreds explosives

near zenith Jan 1, 2022, 7:00 PM

#

depends how many biomes you need to denature

#

a tree looked at me funny once, now i must kill its whole family

wintry aurora Jan 1, 2022, 7:00 PM

#

I've used quite a bit from fighting mobs.

#

Somewhere around an ISC worth I think? Between half and full one.

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 7:14 PM

#

frosty owl Mhh, that's still a bit sketchy to me <:thinking_helmet:479928734481121282> I wo...

Thats why I tore it down and went with an open loop instead.

frosty owl Jan 1, 2022, 7:15 PM

#

It might've worked by just adding a pipe support and distancing the valves half a meter more jace_happy

cinder silo Jan 1, 2022, 7:25 PM

#

frosty owl It might've worked by just adding a pipe support and distancing the valves half ...

Probably explains why so far the main aluminium refinery hasn't broken down, the junctions there are like 24 metres long, the pipeworks at the micro station and acid refinery were much more compact due to the size of the facility itself.

frosty owl Jan 1, 2022, 8:15 PM

#

I feel like many issues can caused by a "too small" pipe segment 😅

#

At least when dealing with delicate and precise stuff like this

ashen zenith Jan 1, 2022, 11:50 PM

#

I need some help with some maths, if anyone is so kind as to help. Basically, I am building a massive power storage bank of 1000 power storage units. I am attempting to build an enclosure that is as close to a perfect cube as possible, with the highest density of batteries. Knowing that each battery measures in at 6mX6mX12m and each foundation is 8mX8mX1m, and each wall is 1mX8mX4m, how would one calculate the smallest possible cube structure?

#

I think I actually found a way to solve it, if anyone would like to check. I decided to take the volume of the battery, which is 432, multiply by 1000 (amount of batteries used) which equals 432,000m^3 and then took the cubic root. Then went and divided by 4 (height of walls), which gives me Z in amount of walls. Then again took ~76 (roughly cubic root of 432,000) and divided by 8 to give me foundations, which is 9.5. So I guess the answer to my question, is an 80mx80mx80m cube, which has a volume excess of 80,000m^3. This is going to be a fun project 🙂

lament phoenix Jan 2, 2022, 12:01 AM

#

and they told me math would never be useful

ashen zenith Jan 2, 2022, 12:03 AM

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haha, its not too terribly complicated but I just couldnt figure out where to start until I typed it out. Only issue is, 80/4 (height of cube divided by wall height) equals 20, but each floor needs to be separated by 3 walls. So now I have to find a cube shape that has a height divisible by 12m, or 3 walls and a width/length divisible by 8

#

Looks like the answer is 96mx96mx96m unless I want to mess with catwalk floors. That's a lot of concrete

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

I used a whole lot of concrete in my prototype power store than was 18 rooms each containing 100 power stores, my full scale store/emergency power is going to take up all 18 geo-thermals and contain 32000 stores 😄

ashen zenith Jan 2, 2022, 12:12 AM

#

Oh fun! The end goal is actually 10 cubes, which of course we are calling tesseracts, for a total of 10,000 stores or 1Twh, fun side project because why not.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 12:14 AM

#

Gathering the geo-thermals and having the wiring not look terrible is part one of the project, I'm already moving thousands of stators to a staging point.

#

The entire project is intended as a huge hedge against any changes being made to nuclear setups as I'm shifting to nuclear exclusively soon so I can commence demolition of a colossal turbo fuel station that I have in the spire coast.

ashen zenith Jan 2, 2022, 12:16 AM

#

Aww man, getting rid of the turbo fuel station? That kinda hurts to hear, but now that plutonium is a thing, that's not a horrible idea

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 12:16 AM

#

Each of the four towers going up will have 8000 stores, 400 per floor.

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Yeah I don't really want to demolish a structure that took about a month to build but if the spire coast changes eat the place, I'll never be able to take it down.

ashen zenith Jan 2, 2022, 12:17 AM

#

Fair enough, I'm not sure if we've even built by spire coast yet, so I guess not a big deal for us, but I totally get it

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 12:18 AM

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I got done ironing out the nuclear bugs yesterday, was a slight plumbing issue that caused a gigantic radiological disaster, I managed to make half of the grasslands a death zone because heat sink production quit on me 🙂

ashen zenith Jan 2, 2022, 12:19 AM

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Oh how fun! Yeah I'm not maining our nuclear generators at this point, and honestly, I'd be scared to. I honestly am not a massive fan of building factories that require fluids, but I'm definitely getting better

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 12:20 AM

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The fluids to worry about in nuclear is really just waste water, I fed that to coal generators which is a reliable way to eliminate 45 water per.

#

I originally had closed loops for recirculating water, a design fault on my end made the system temprimental, so I ran open loops using the coal gens as a sink, they also return a bit of power for their trouble to boot so win/win.

ashen zenith Jan 2, 2022, 12:22 AM

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Not a horrible idea at all, just then have fluctuating power production if you are using it as a sink.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 12:22 AM

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If you load balance feeding fuel to the nukes as well, you minimise radiation by not having mountains of unused fuel sitting in a belt system,

#

If the nuclear infrastructure is running full tilt, and it should be, those coal gens will also go at max, no deviations.

ashen zenith Jan 2, 2022, 12:24 AM

#

I see, my brain was kinda broken and wasn't thinking how you would set that up, that makes more sense, lol

#

Calculating my power cube is hurting my brain enough as it is apparently, lol

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 12:26 AM

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Mine will output 3,200,000mw at max when completed, the reason for such an absurd number is to give me a backup on tap power source I can close the circuit on should a game change knock out my nukes, when fully charged I should have several weeks worth of power to get my generators back online.

#

Five geo-thermals connected to the emergency grid, thirteen more to go.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 1:30 AM

#

A bit of a better pic, now that I finished the floor

Alu solution
Alu scraps
Heat Sinks

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:49 AM

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Many hours later, this test of a single junction VIP valve is still going, so, despite what shintu felper and maybe mcgalleon (according to shintu) said about it needing two junctions in order to work properly. Just thought I'd mention here.

fringe pawn Jan 2, 2022, 6:20 AM

#

Through saves and reloads as well?

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 6:24 AM

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I’ll have to check tomorrow. No reason it shouldn’t still work.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 7:53 AM

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guess I found one error in @wind spade calculator

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set up a rubber factory and it didn't add up properly

#

after going over the number the calculator uses one to many blenders and HOR refineries

#

guessing the blender recipe got changed or something?

#

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=2oGk6XDkWfcX1xpwEZ1j

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 8:31 AM

#

the whole setup is out of sync actually

#

the input of 300 resin is the byproduct of the turbo fuel power plant btw

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 8:52 AM

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wintry aurora Many hours later, this test of a single junction VIP valve is still going, so, d...

I've run several of those successfully, but still trust McG :P xD
I feel like the single-junction version can work only in some more specific scenarios than the 2 junctions version

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 8:56 AM

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shrewd yacht the whole setup is out of sync actually

There's nothing wrong there. I suggest you either make sure of your claim or at least present some specific issue (like "the number of machines doing A is X instead of Y") before "pinging the creator in desperation" 😅 🤣

#

Checking out the actual recipes used should clear up your doubts 😉

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 8:57 AM

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I've gone over it many times already

#

only difference here is I use the residual rubber for the recycled plastic and overflow the rest with a smart splitter at the end

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 8:59 AM

#

Difference between what and what?

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 8:59 AM

#

uh?

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the visalization at the calculator feeds the recycled rubber back to the recycled plastic

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:02 AM

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How else did you expect it to feed rubber to a process requiring rubber? thinking_helmet

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:02 AM

#

read up as I told you

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:02 AM

#

I don't get what's throwing you off, the plan is perfectly normal for a diluted fuel + recycling loop

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:02 AM

#

I use the 220 residual rubber and overflow whats left back to the output

#

problem for me is the 5.6 blenders got backed up and the HOR thus got backed up and the whole loop fails

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:05 AM

#

So what?
As long as you feed enough rubber to the plastic setup you can overflow however much you want (supposedly, 780/min)

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:05 AM

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shrewd yacht problem for me is the 5.6 blenders got backed up and the HOR thus got backed up ...

.... That's not an issue with the planner 🤦‍♂️
That's an issue with how you built the setup, the plan is perfectly fine, is it not? ^^

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:05 AM

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Morning folks 🙂

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:06 AM

#

its not hard to set up 6 blenders and one at 60%

#

that produces the total of 560 fuel needed for the recycled plastic and rubber

#

according to the calculator

#

but that backed them up

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:08 AM

#

The production plan is perfect. If you don't get the output you want, that's on you

To clarify, I'm not trying to be mean, but telling you sure facts: the issue is un how you built it, so let's focus on that

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:09 AM

#

If it's anything like my uranium processor, it should work perfectly, or my general acid refinery then it'll be a disaster 😄

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:09 AM

#

both recycling recipe refineries are connected to a mk2 pipe from the 6 blenders that produce 560 fuel

#

so that is 7 for plastic and 13 for rubber with one on each clocked down to match

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:11 AM

#

There's a plethora of reasons why the HOR can back up in such a reason. First off, you said the HOR backed up, right?
So the HOR isn't being consumed, is that due to a lack of water for fuel or fuel output being full?
Keep troubleshooting like this until yoh see the specific issue (eg: rubber output is backing up, reducing fuel consumption, clogging the fuel output, clogging the HOR output in turn, that's my guess)

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:11 AM

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blender backed up first

#

and thus they didn't use the full 280 HOR and so on

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:12 AM

#

Still doesn't answer: did it lack water or was the fuel output full? Why was the fuel output full, did rubber or plastic production not consume enough... And so on

#

If they just lacked water, it'd be the easiest to fix

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:14 AM

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cinder silo If it's anything like my uranium processor, it should work perfectly, or my gene...

I tried my first test run of my facility... Failed immediatly, I forgot to turn on a section of water extractors in my rush jace_happy

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:14 AM

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Whoops!

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:15 AM

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Totally never seen such a stupid mistake before...

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:15 AM

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I have a ton of cosmetic work to do around all my nukes before I online it full time 🙂

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:15 AM

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Brrrrrruuuuuhhhhhhh.... Don't you even mention cosmetics tired_jace jacelul

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:16 AM

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I am sinking the full 780 belt to make sure its all used

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:16 AM

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Too late there bud, parts of the facility look incomplete.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:16 AM

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and the fuel backed up

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:16 AM

#

Erm, is that belt intended to be fully saturated 780?

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:17 AM

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I build for full belts and overflow to a sink what is not used

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no way in hell I calculate for the full end factory for every stage

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:17 AM

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shrewd yacht I am sinking the full 780 belt to make sure its all used

If you're merging those on more than a single segment, the refineries should back up on rubber as I mentioned in my first example (again, you're not troubleshooting properly: saying "I'm sinking the rubber but the fuel backs up" is just part of the info needed)

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:18 AM

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The problem is a 780 belt seldom gives you the full 780 unless it's a one section belt, that dropped throughput if you're shoving 780 in will clog.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:18 AM

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you make no sense Vencam

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:19 AM

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Ask whatever isn't clear to you, I'll clarify. I spent plenty of time dealing with similar issues, I can assure you of my confidence in resolving such issues ^^

#

Though my wording may not always be the clearest 😅 (non-native English)

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:20 AM

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as I said fuel backed up eventually when sinking the end rubber

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:20 AM

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frosty owl Though my wording may not always be the clearest 😅 (non-native English)

Your english has always come across as perfectly fine!

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:23 AM

#

shrewd yacht as I said fuel backed up eventually when sinking the end rubber

As I said, saying "I sink a 780/min line of fuel" DOES NOT imply that the refineries producing rubber can't back up (bugs with max capacity belts)

Which is why, to know for CERTAIN the issue of your fuel production, the steps to rule out any other possibilities are:
-Check if the Fuel had enough inputs to be produced (the issue isn't a lack of input). If not, troubleshoot the inputs (no issue here)
-Check if the output if full. If full troubleshoot the output (here we have the issue)

#

Now, since the output is full, you HAVE to go check why is it full, which means checking out the rubber/plastic refineries

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:24 AM

#

I'm betting on expecting 780 out of the belt is the sole cause.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:25 AM

#

Same

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:25 AM

#

I have some very sorry experience with 780 belts, they never deliver as advertised 🤣

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:26 AM

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not going to happen as I'll not get the full 300 residue from the power plant anyway

#

I use one less fuel generator than the max 600 turbo fuel

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:26 AM

#

JUST 👏 USE 👏 FULL 👏 MK5 👏 FOR A SINGLE 👏 BELT SEGMENT 👏

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:26 AM

#

so that system backs up slightly

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:27 AM

#

frosty owl *JUST* 👏 *USE* 👏 *FULL* 👏 *MK5* 👏 *FOR A SINGLE* 👏 *BELT SEGMENT* 👏

Ever seen what happens in game with six 5km long single section mk5 belts ? 😛

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:28 AM

#

which means the 30 or so rubber overflow from the recycled plastic inputs will probably not happen much if at all

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:29 AM

#

So... You're saying your fuel backs up in your blenders, BUT your fuel consuming refineries (plastic/rubber) are running fine? Did I get something wrong? thinking_helmet

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:29 AM

#

cinder silo Ever seen what happens in game with six 5km long single section mk5 belts ? 😛

That's on you for trying to break the game just to avoid using trains :P jacelul

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:30 AM

#

yeah the fuel consuming refineries were running at 100%

#

I actually split the 6 blenders now so 2 are separate for the recycled plastic

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:30 AM

#

How do you know the recycled rubber and plastic refineries are running fine?

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:30 AM

#

hopefully that will help... fluids can be weird at times

#

they were not backed up or lacking anything

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:31 AM

#

Did you check out if all the refineries have empty inputs AND empty outputs

#

*full inputs

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:32 AM

#

I've gone over the setup for 3 hours now LOL

#

no idea how many times I've checked

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:33 AM

#

shrewd yacht I've gone over the setup for 3 hours now LOL

Sadly, this isn't enough to answer that... Some just say so, then half an hour later specify: well I didn't check ALL of them 🤦‍♂️
So, just making sure: you did check the in/out for each refinery and didn't assume it for anyone, right?

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:34 AM

#

I never assume anything 😉

#

I've checked them god knows how many times

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:34 AM

#

Good rule of thumb. But you did assume greeny's calculator was wrong (which is not the case) xD. Stuff happens 😆

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:34 AM

#

emptied them and deleted way to many times to reset it as well

#

testing with a split fuel system now

#

see if it was some weir thing with that

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:35 AM

#

I think we should move to screenshots of the setup... I can't really get why the fuel backs up exactly, assuming it's really being consumed as fast as it should be

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:36 AM

#

Please tell me there isn't a mk1 pipe hidden inside a pipe junction, I hate that, that mistake brought my aluminium refinery to it's knees some weeks back.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:36 AM

#

shrewd yacht see if it was some weir thing with that

You were quite far from maxing out your pipes' capacity, so I would blame the piping only if you made some really weird things 😆

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:38 AM

#

cinder silo Please tell me there isn't a mk1 pipe hidden inside a pipe junction, I hate that...

This actually made me surface a nice thought: some say sushi factories like mine are "too easy to break", but one could see that as "if there's issues, they're shown immediatly" rolljace 🤣
||Well, it's not really as simple as that, but still...||

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:40 AM

#

My first iteration due to the huge number of buffers I had (only used to make it look cool) broke after eleven days when the buffers filled.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:42 AM

#

I learnt avoiding that thanks to a much smaller scale example luckily ahahah
(Single sulphuric acid buffer in cells manifacturing)

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:43 AM

#

My cell manufacturing uses small buffers mostly just to keep some spare acid in the system, somehow the place managed equilibrium.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:44 AM

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tbf greeny have a warning that things might not be accurate after update 5

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:46 AM

#

That refers to other things. You can be certain of the numbers the planner gives you, they always work as long as you can implement them in-game properly
Naturally, the planner doesn't take belt limits and such into account, that's for you to figure out. It just points out what recipes, in what numbers and what inputs would be required to make a certain output

#

I've run plenty of similar setups myself but (unsurprisingly to some), I prefer to limit them to 720/min for the final output so I don't have belting issues on that side

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:48 AM

#

put up a picture in #screenshots

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:48 AM

#

Here is fine too xD

#

Where are the plastic refineries?

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:50 AM

#

middle row at the top

#

the 2 farthest blenders and now feeding them fuel separate

#

it was all one system earlier

#

which should work just fine

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:51 AM

#

That should reduce the flow to less than 500/mib for the rest of the fuel pipework, which surely isn't bad

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:52 AM

#

The mk2 pipes seem to work ok below 570 cubic metres.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:53 AM

#

Why do the rubber refineries seem to have so little plastic though? Walk us through the plubber belting

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:53 AM

#

my power plant uses 133 generators so I avoid saturating the full 600

#

its all filling up again now after I flushed it a bit

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:54 AM

#

||On a sidenote, I now remember why I prefer piping below the floor: better clarity for refineries' beltwork jace_smile ||

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:55 AM

#

takes a while for the buffer in each of the 13 recycled rubber refineries to fill up

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 9:55 AM

#

frosty owl ||On a sidenote, I now remember why I prefer piping below the floor: better clar...

I did the same with that colossal turbo fuel station I have, it let me review the pipework from below just by standing there and looking.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:56 AM

#

I've started adjusting the size of pipe segments on pipes close to one another just so they align their flow indicators for me to put a glass cover on top jace_smile

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 9:58 AM

#

shrewd yacht takes a while for the buffer in each of the 13 recycled rubber refineries to fil...

So how did you belt the plastic and rubber?
I'm assuming you're: merging the plastic, manifolding it to the rubber refineries; merging the rubber, sending that to the plastic, merging the overflow with the residual rubber to reach 780/min, correct?

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 9:59 AM

#

the rubber made from residue is fed to the ones making plastic

#

what is left of that is overflowing to the end output belt

#

its merged with the rubber from the 13 refineries making recycled rubber

#

the last splitter on the row of 7 refineries making plastic is a smart splitter with overflow

#

to make sure they all get the rubber they need

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:03 AM

#

And now I see where thing can potentially go very wrong... I'll explain the situation I see, you tell me of it's close to what you noticed or not ^^

#

When you start the system, first HOR starts being produced.
Then, Fuel and Residual rubber kick in
Now, the recycled plastic refineries will probably be already getting residual rubber the moment they finally get fuel, but the rubber refineries are still waiting for plastic
Finally, the plastic refineries go jn full swing and produce the needed amount of plastic to feed the rubber refineries.

Issue: the rubber refineries need 13 stacks of rubber to reach full efficiency. Before that, they'll not consume as much fuel as you expect them to, making it back up. If the fuel backs up too much, the HOR production may start backing up. If the HOR production backs up, you have less polymer resin. If you have too little polymer resin you can't make enough residual rubber to sustain the recycled plastic at 100%, meaning the rubber refineries back up even more on fuel until the system eventually clogs

Enough buffering for fluids could easily prevent this

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:09 AM

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ahh makes sense and maybe that is why its been working for a while now

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I flushed some fuel pipes only

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probably enough to make room for the fuel in the pipes and its all in sync

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as long as i get enough resin and the recycled plastic is fed 100% it should be fine

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and I do have like 30+ rubber leeway there

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:11 AM

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So the system can't ramp up properly because of products in the system aren't there to allow it to do so, choking the in feeds.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:11 AM

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You need to make sure fuel/HOR are never piling up 👍 (or plan for that if they do)

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:12 AM

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cinder silo So the system can't ramp up properly because of products in the system aren't th...

Which made for a surprisingly fun troubleshooting session IMO 😁

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:12 AM

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shrewd yacht as long as i get enough resin and the recycled plastic is fed 100% it should be ...

OR you could load balance the plastic to the rubber refineries jace_smile

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:13 AM

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An industrial buffer in an off shoot should be able to hold on to the excess fluid while the whole system kicks in.

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And here I was fully laying the blame on the out belt 😦 , sorry.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:14 AM

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damn fluids again as usual 😛

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the pipes are not full now so should be fine

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everything is running 100%

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:15 AM

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My first mistake was treating pipeworks like round belts, the fluid mechanics kicked my arse every time.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:15 AM

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unless it gets out of sync due to save freeze or some lag

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:15 AM

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Speaking of... @shrewd yacht Your 780/min rubber output belt will surely slowly back up once the system outputs at 100% (of it can keep up maximum efficiency, that is), but that shouldn't be an issue... I think...
The system shouldn't clog due to that, even if your rubber refineries pile up rubber 🤔

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:16 AM

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I have a sink right after the 13 refineries as well to catch stuff there

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:16 AM

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You can use the merger trick to fuse the 780 in to a single segment provided it isn't an immense one (that crashes the game haha)

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:16 AM

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before the final merge

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:16 AM

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shrewd yacht unless it gets out of sync due to save freeze or some lag

The only issue with loading is the fluid loss bug, you know already? ^^

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:16 AM

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never heard of it

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:17 AM

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That should be self correcting since the system backs up on startup, and introducing a buffer should catch it to prevent lockups.

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That said, 5 cubic metres tends to vanish from the systems hidden buffers on reload that can wreak havoc on closed loops if not planned for.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:18 AM

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bleh...

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:18 AM

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Each machine requires 5m of "ghost" fluid (that will not be processed) everytime you load the game. This goes for any machine consuming fluid everytime you load the game
Eg: 50 fuel generators drain ~250m of extra fuel from the connected pipework each load

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:19 AM

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oof

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:19 AM

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frosty owl When you start the system, first HOR starts being produced. Then, Fuel and Resid...

I might actually use this example for a reddit post about possible "hidden dangers" of manifolding. Would that be fine with you @shrewd yacht?

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:20 AM

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good thing I don't use the full 600 on my fuel plant heh

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thats fine with me

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:20 AM

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~thanks

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:20 AM

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if this can help others figure out why things are not working

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:20 AM

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My old turbo fuel station planned around the full 600 before I found out about the throughput issues, I had to underclock some generators as a work around.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:23 AM

#

#

another angle of the same setup

vapid gorge Jan 2, 2022, 10:24 AM

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shrewd yacht if this can help others figure out why things are not working

One of the simpler work arounds for that was have a sink for the excess polymer form the HOR being made.
That way the HOR could keep being produced

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:25 AM

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problem here was fluids backing up not the resin

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:25 AM

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It was a fluid backup issue on startup while the system ramped to full capacity that made it choke up though.

vapid gorge Jan 2, 2022, 10:25 AM

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shrewd yacht

I had a 3000 crude to 4000 rubber 4800 plastic station and had to trouble shoot a lot

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Hmm that’s odd. The diluted fuel should have just been filling the pipes

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:25 AM

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heh

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:26 AM

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shrewd yacht

Oh yehh, sure, keep it going! If I'm allowed to add the screens to the post, that can help greatly! 😁 (You can leave me your Reddit handle if you'd like credits)

vapid gorge Jan 2, 2022, 10:26 AM

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Have you fixed it or is it still causing issues?

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:26 AM

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same as here I believe

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I think I fixed it without really knowing it hehe

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flushed some pipes and that got it moving

vapid gorge Jan 2, 2022, 10:27 AM

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Cool beans, next thing I was going to suggest was to loop all the manifold pipes so fluid was coming from both ends

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:27 AM

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and I also split the 6 blenders so that 2 are feeding the recycled plastic separately

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:28 AM

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vapid gorge Cool beans, next thing I was going to suggest was to loop all the manifold pipes...

Urgh, you loopers and your unreadable flows! tired_jace

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:28 AM

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I did make a loop for the ones feeding the 13 refineries doing recycled rubber

vapid gorge Jan 2, 2022, 10:28 AM

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frosty owl Urgh, you loopers and your unreadable flows! <:tired_jace:807645447258243072>

It fixes so many issues!

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:29 AM

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frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:29 AM

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vapid gorge It fixes so many issues!

Imo, it's often the least elegant solution to the issue (if there is one to begin with, in this case looping's not even necessary) 😆

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:30 AM

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Yeah, take the two former-loops in my nuclear reprocessing as an example, it was a disaster!.

vapid gorge Jan 2, 2022, 10:30 AM

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Meh, I preemptively loop these days

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:32 AM

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Coal station to take up water approach solved two serious problems in my case 🤣

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:32 AM

#

#

left incoming is from the power plant resin overflow

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one of the refineries merge from that and the local HOR/resin production

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:33 AM

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vapid gorge Meh, I preemptively loop these days

Which is exactly what I try to keep people away from 😆
Doing that preemptively just takes away the readability of your pipes for no particular reason. This in turn can lead to issues caused by not understanding the flow of fluid correctly since you never experience non-looped flows

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To clarify, I'm not saying looping is bad, I'm saying relying on it mindlessly, or suggesting it "just in case" is a bit excessive

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:34 AM

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I ended up doing a loop for the fuel generators at the far end

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:36 AM

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shrewd yacht left incoming is from the power plant resin overflow

That sort of merge can increase your issues when/if your HOR backs up. As Cobalt suggested, having an overflow connection for the resin would be the safest choice ^^

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:38 AM

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I do overflow to a sink near the power plant as well for resin

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but that was more for initial power plant setup

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if HOR backs up I'll be short on resin...

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hopefully it will not happen as the rubber from resin is more than what is needed for plastic

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the 11 refineries produce 220 rubber and 186.667 is used for plastic

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:43 AM

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Good point

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:43 AM

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the rest overflows to the merger at the end

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:43 AM

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In the end, it was all just a fuel issue rather than a HOR issue

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:44 AM

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pipes filled up before it was used to make recycled rubber basically

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causing a cascading effect with to little resin to make rubber to make plastic to use fuel 😛

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and with to little plastic fuel was not used for rubber as well

#

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bit of a mess with the incoming crude, but I got fed up with the fluid not filling the pipes

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small buffer higher than the refineries fixed it

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:50 AM

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I'm glad fluid hammer isn't a mechanic in this game, I'm too used to right angled pipes 🤣

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:50 AM

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it was feeding from under the foundation before for a cleaner look

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sulfur is so far away from oil on the map it feels like

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fairly long belt to get it over

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:53 AM

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I did the epic sulphur belts, pain in the posterior! , If you can, give trains a shot.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:54 AM

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maybe in the future if I have to get materials from the other side of the plateau or the dunes

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:56 AM

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The problem in my case was throughput, six 780 belts of sulphur not being quite 780 by the time they got to my compacted coal plant caused a few stoppages, Only after I had a similar issue with my bauxite also on six colossal belts did I even find out about the belts not delivering as advertised past one section.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:58 AM

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hah

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 10:58 AM

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shrewd yacht small buffer higher than the refineries fixed it

I nearly always have a buffer connected to a pipe system if it pipes a produced fluid. It's quite handy un many ways

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:58 AM

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The bauxite now has a "parity" belt to enforce 780 at the refinery end, I left the turbo fuel station alone with the future spire coast changes looming, it wasn't worth the effort.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:59 AM

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if you go with a 600 turbo fuel system you'll have no problem

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 10:59 AM

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My turbo fuel station burns 4000 turbo fuel 😦

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 10:59 AM

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600 sulphur can feed two of those setups

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so if you use 780 belts for 600 then its fine

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 11:00 AM

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I rely on 700-720 max from mk5's nowadays, I still have legacy systems to fix but I am so not trying for max belt throughput, it just doesn't work.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 11:01 AM

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hehe

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wonder if they find a way to fix it or if they are forced to rebalance for less

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would be a nightmare if they have to rebalance

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 11:02 AM

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The problem in the end turned out to be totally non intuitive, had it not been for a dedicated community of people who test retest and record the results, I would have been totally blind to the problem and seeing factories just stalling or outright stopping.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 11:02 AM

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I had a very fun time watching a setup to check for the 780/min bug jacelul

I placed down a ISC (A), connected it to a smart splitter. The main output went to a zig-zag of a mk5 snake (all 1 segment) reaching another ISC (B), with overflow going to an overflow (O) container.
Finally, from B i sent a belt back to A's input (3 segments, only 2 of which sharing a belt-belt connection)

It was very fun seeing items pile up in B due to the very short belt leading to A and backing up, while the giant mk5 snake had no issues whatsoever jacelul

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 11:04 AM

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I'm still "collecting" Geo-thermal vents for my emergency power project 🙂

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Plan is all 18 on an isolated circuit with 32,000 power stores.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 11:08 AM

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poor PC

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 11:10 AM

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As a mostly passive structure I don't anticipate any serious problems, It won't be any worse than all my nuclear infrastructure completely consuming most of the grasslands, waterfall and the nearby void.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 11:10 AM

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Collecting geothermal was how I "started" my current save 😆 (tbf, I built it in creative though)

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 11:11 AM

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hah

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 11:11 AM

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I still don't get this creative thing v0v , I'm approaching the geothermal vents from below in m my now famous tunnel network 😄 , their isolated power grid will run via poles along the top of those tunnels.

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 11:12 AM

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haven't got supercomputers yet

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could probably buy some with thickets, but I got like 25k power generation capacity now and using 5-6k

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 11:13 AM

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Super computers were "ok" to automate, I used caterium computer alt, and two manufacturers worth fed one manufacturer doing supers perfectly, the numbers were great 🙂

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 11:14 AM

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can add another 600 turbofuel in the same area as well once I get a mk3 miner for the sulphur node

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next on my list is to get them going

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just wanted to get the rubber supply sorted out

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should have enough for everything with a 780 belt

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 11:23 AM

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Oops, incomplete hyper tubes when in underground tunnels are dangerous haha.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 11:30 AM

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cinder silo I still don't get this creative thing v0v , I'm approaching the geothermal vents...

What don't you get about creative? How it works? 😆

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 11:31 AM

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That I don't see any game options for it so I can more freely experiment with things.

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I'm not exactly arguing in favour of it with the whole unlimited resources thing, but I guess it could be a let your hair down and go wild with the ridiculous.

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Ever wondered how I build shafts through multiple layers of terrain, well here's how, temp hyper entrances to boop through the barriers 🙂

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I had to do seven of those to get the impure uranium shaft from the top of mount improbable to the Z axis baseline.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 11:46 AM

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I shall refrain from telling you how I despise such approaches because I consider them "cheap tricks". That's just my personal preference and shouldn't affect your gameplay, so I'll keep it to myself, how nice of me simon_smile

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 11:46 AM

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cinder silo That I don't see any game options for it so I can more freely experiment with th...

It's not an in-game options, people usually use SCIM or mods to get it ^^

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 11:47 AM

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Ahh right, I don't use those sorta things, maybe if it becomes an official in game option I'll do such a creative world and see how hard I can crash the thing.

wind spade Jan 2, 2022, 11:51 AM

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shrewd yacht guess I found one error in <@!242004363730616322> calculator

Seems fine 🤔

shrewd yacht Jan 2, 2022, 11:52 AM

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I believe we figured out the issue

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fluids back up before the system can get going and never recovers

wind spade Jan 2, 2022, 11:56 AM

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Yeah I think it's easily solved by using the residual rubber to prime the loop

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 12:09 PM

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Just "priming the loop" would have sufficed...
Or balancing instead of manifolding jace_smile
(Yes, this is actually a case where balancing would have prevented the issue)

wind spade Jan 2, 2022, 12:09 PM

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You can't really balance fluids 🤔

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Or just flush the fluid system xD

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 12:20 PM

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What I mean: balancing the plastic input for the rubber refineries would have avoided the issue (fuel not being consumed fast enough>Not enough HOR consumption>Not enough resyn>Not enough residual rubber>Not enough plastic for recycled rubber) while still being more compact and simpler than most other (non-manual) solutions such as: adding buffers for the fuel, sinking some products...

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 12:24 PM

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After the whole radioactivity thing, I gained an appreciation for some balancers in the mix.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 12:26 PM

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I still think balancing is (generally) underappreciated and thought to be more complex than what it is to achieve some results

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And I think the fact that the wiki immediatly offers solutions like "n:m balancers" as if they were the holy grail, rather suggesting clock adjustments (which can be much easier to deal with)

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End result: people burning out trying to make humongous balancers where they could have changed the clock of a single machine to have a much simpler split to begin with

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 12:37 PM

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I never found balancing to be particularly complex, in some situations I just couldn't make it fit well in small facilities that are wholly parallel.

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It was just more straightforward to manifold, it worked well, until suddenly it didn't with a huge radiation death zone 😄

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Newer manifolds will be broader fed by a split in order to cut prime times, the spool up times are a pain, and where possible in the simplest applications It's just as well to balance.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 12:43 PM

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I agree on that. Mixing balancing and manifolding objectively leads to the best results, even if one just looks at time taken (ideally, the time taken to make a balancer is offset by the priming time avoided)

fringe pawn Jan 2, 2022, 12:45 PM

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Balancing only becomes a problem when people want to do uneven splits like this, and insist on using a line of machines all clocked the same, or just a single overclocked machine.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 12:47 PM

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With my manifolds, if I add machines to balance numbers, I put my underclocked ones first in line to shorten prime times on the end of the row, it's like no effect in the long term but it's a habit I got in to,

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Oh the wavey line of the growing geo-thermal grid haha.

wind spade Jan 2, 2022, 12:53 PM

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I'm actually not sure if underclocked machines are better earlier or later in the manifold

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Better in terms of 100% speed time

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 12:54 PM

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I honestly don't know myself, I just do it for the sake of consistency and habit these days.

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Nine geotherms down, nine to go!.

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This area on the western border of the dunes, just above the spire coast is also going to get caught up in the spire coast revamp right?

fringe pawn Jan 2, 2022, 1:25 PM

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cinder silo This area on the western border of the dunes, just above the spire coast is also...

The precision of the changes map isn't necessarily perfect. I would bet on that area being subject to change.

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I remember going there and thinking no way it was finished.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 1:25 PM

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I'm thinking the same, I postponed the project there until I know more.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 1:28 PM

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wind spade I'm actually not sure if underclocked machines are better earlier or later in th...

I think the answer is easy: earlier, as it means you'll have to fill the inventory of machines that will use less items/min (thus taking less time to prime the manifold)

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 1:30 PM

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cinder silo With my manifolds, if I add machines to balance numbers, I put my underclocked o...

I put machines with clocks different from the others in front of the row for a very simple reason: so I don't have to run the entire bulding to check the important machines (that are usually the ones with different clocks from the rest) ^^

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 1:30 PM

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Makes sense.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 2:34 PM

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wind spade I'm actually not sure if underclocked machines are better earlier or later in th...

I like to put them last sometimes. Generally just one end of the row or another, often the odd numbered one when that’s the case. Occasionally in the middle. Placement has no effect on the manifold as far as I can tell.

oblique notch Jan 2, 2022, 2:38 PM

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it totally doesnt. I generally put them last as well

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 2:38 PM

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cinder silo This area on the western border of the dunes, just above the spire coast is also...

I'm not 100% sure either, but what I do know is that on the biome map, the mesas along the river are considered part of the Spire Coast biome and the top of the mesas look pretty unfinished, plus those two massive unfinished caves.

oblique notch Jan 2, 2022, 2:38 PM

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other than I suppose under clocked machines first in the manifold slightly reduce the start up time in feeling, but probably not in actuality

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 2:41 PM

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wintry aurora I'm not 100% sure either, but what I do know is that on the biome map, the mesas...

I've suspended any construction there, it isn't worth moving everything up there only to do the shuffle later on.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 2:42 PM

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wintry aurora I like to put them last sometimes. Generally just one end of the row or another,...

I think it does (slightly) affect manifold fill time (see my answer to greeny about it)

oblique notch Jan 2, 2022, 2:43 PM

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Other than its probably 4-6 months before there is even a chance of a change there, and thats assuming its in Update 6 and not >6 or even 1.0

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 2:45 PM

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oblique notch other than I suppose under clocked machines first in the manifold *slightly* red...

Why not in actuality?

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 2:46 PM

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The uncertianity is the problem here, it's probably like the early days when many biomes were still in flux. Skybases are probably fine, but you never know.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 2:47 PM

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CS suddenly adds 6 more mantas at higher altitudes too jace_smile

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 2:47 PM

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frosty owl I think it does (slightly) affect manifold fill time (see my answer to greeny ab...

I can see it affecting fill time a little, seems to help fill in the back of it quicker. Not by much though.

oblique notch Jan 2, 2022, 2:48 PM

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frosty owl Why not in actuality?

Because its still the exact same amount of items required to fill the hoppers of all the machines/saturate the belt. The difference is that a few less get used in the begining than at the end - which can mean there is a slight improvement in that overall output will hit the required number earlier with the underclocked machines first, but we're talking the difference of like maybe 1-2% faster.

So it feels faster at first because the 2nd/3rd machines start reachign 100% seemingly much faster because the Underclocked machine fills its internal hopper faster (due to using it slower) but in the end ... its negligable

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diminishing returns here too the more machines in the manifold. 2-3 machines will see a greater "reach full output" even tho the last machine isnt filled (or ever filled) with underclocked first, but 30, or 50, or 100? wont be noticible

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unless with 30 machines 10 of them are underclocked, not just one

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 2:51 PM

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In sets of three machines, sometimes I put the underclocked one in the middle as it helps with the output balance a little, but that's a preference thing and not a functional one as it doesn't actually matter

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 3:04 PM

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oblique notch Because its still the exact same amount of items required to fill the hoppers of...

The machines (excluding the last 2) filling up faster is exactly what makes such a manifold fill faster 👍 (of corse, this is assuming you're providing as much as the machines would need, the worst case scenario for a manifold)

Sure, the difference might be small, but that's not the point I wanted to make, just wether or not underclocking the first machines instead of the last ones would help fill the manifold quicker or not ^^

oblique notch Jan 2, 2022, 3:05 PM

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fair enough.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:06 PM

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In the end it's debatable enough to end up as personal preference and habit imho.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:07 PM

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Agreed, the effect isn't significant enough to make one spot better than the other.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 3:09 PM

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It might actually be worth looking at the advantages too, in some scenarios... thinking_helmet
While this definetly doesn't help in "noticeable" amounts for anything over 20 machines... Maybe a combination of high-tier recipes (very slow consumption, <20 machines) and very weird clock requirements (eg: wanting to clock 2 ore more machines at less than 50%) could lead to interesting advantages in placing the underclocked machines differently

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Thinks about the very weird needs that can come up with nuclear manifolds
Just maybe...

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:14 PM

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I have been quite wary around nuclear manifolds, the none radioactive lines all have any underclocked machines at the start, radioactive stuff went to load balancers in the end to cut on the hot zones.

oblique notch Jan 2, 2022, 3:15 PM

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thing is tho, the whole thing about manifolds is they become saturated and then it doesnt matter (as long a you have all inputs up to required amounts) - once saturated that will output the same amount (assuming again input is constant and enough) forever.

So the start up time advantages dont really translate to anything for SF

fringe pawn Jan 2, 2022, 3:17 PM

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I'm curious how people build manifolds for, say, HMFs in practice. I never notice the saturation period for manifolds because I start with the ores and work my way up. So all my machines can saturate while I'm building toward the end. But if you build from the other direction you can't do that. Or if you are powering the whole factory only at the end.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:17 PM

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The start up time difference is likely measured in seconds.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:18 PM

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I haven't built things top down yet, like HMF downwards. I've done that sometimes with DSP, but not Satisfactory.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:19 PM

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I start building often at the end of a line so I can get the machines and the likes in, but work from the start to complete and power up so the manifold lines are full by the time I turn on the end product producers.

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I only do that to ensure the factory output is where I want it.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:20 PM

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Though it's not neccesarily a linear bottom up like tier by tier, I tend to do in sections or production lines.

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Makes sense for manifolds I suppose.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:25 PM

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I've found myself doing the factory shuffle often enough that sticking to only the one approach just doesn't work.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 3:25 PM

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cinder silo The start up time difference is likely measured in seconds.

I'm thinking between <10 seconds and >10 minutes , considering all the scenarios we've thrown around up to now thinking_helmet

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:26 PM

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True, I was only thinking in terms of saturated manifolds, I hadn't considered anything slower mostly due to me being distracted.

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Still "collecting" those geothermal vents 🙂

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 3:27 PM

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I'm assuming a scenario where one provides just as much as needed. If one just provides more, there's no point to make xD

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||I'm at my second round of testing||

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:28 PM

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cinder silo I've found myself doing the factory shuffle often enough that sticking to only t...

What do you mean specifically? Like top down or bottom up?

oblique notch Jan 2, 2022, 3:29 PM

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fringe pawn I'm curious how people build manifolds for, say, HMFs in practice. I never notic...

I build thr whole factory subsection, then connect it to its own grid before adding power. The I go work on another project while it saturates. I come back after a few hours to debug it.

But I usually yave 5 or 6 different projects on going that I flit between

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:29 PM

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wintry aurora What do you mean specifically? Like top down or bottom up?

I'll build either way depending on the circumstances, and topography.

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It wouldn't be the first time I've had to change plans because of eyeballing a location, thinking I have room, then discovering to my cost a wall would end up in a hillside or cliff.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:31 PM

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I haven't felt the need to yet, though I've found that sometimes with bottom up, I tend to end up with sides merging.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:33 PM

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cinder silo It wouldn't be the first time I've had to change plans because of eyeballing a l...

Probably like when in U3, I made the choice of deciding to cram the refineries into the cave-like space where the oil nodes are in Blue Crater.

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Of course, I was a newb back then.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:34 PM

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I did something similar in the same place in my first save back in update 3, built a monster fuel power station there (not even dilute lol)

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Had I tried to modernise the place with lessons learned since, I would have had to rip the whole thing out because the water was paved over with generators.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:35 PM

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I made a small (30 or so?) diluted packaged fuel one over there, later built a big one at the lake forest nodes.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:45 PM

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I think when I finish hooking these geothermal plants up, I should be ready to use the main grid for the initial emergency power charge up haha, it would take years for 32,000 power stores to build to full capacity otherwise.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:46 PM

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You literally have 32k power stores? How much capacity is that? You could almost run the factories off of just that for long periods of time (which is probably the point).

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I have a measely 40 or so.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:47 PM

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3,200,000mw raw output, the place is only partially built though, I'm replacing the prototype power store under the main base.

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Being able to run everything off them is my particularly huge hedge against balance changes knocking out my nuclear.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:48 PM

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Oh I see, I misunderstood that as 32k individual buildings, not capacity.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:49 PM

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Yeah, the whole thing is 4 towers (when finished) with 20 floors of 20x20 power stores, most of it including tens of thousands of stators is still sitting in cans ready to be assembled.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:49 PM

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No, wait, that's 3 million output.

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Still a hell of a lot of them.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:49 PM

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Yes it's three million output 😄

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:50 PM

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cinder silo Yeah, the whole thing is 4 towers (when finished) with 20 floors of 20x20 power ...

Make them in the shape of duracell batteries, lol :)

static venture Jan 2, 2022, 3:50 PM

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For nuclear, do the nodes work out where max overclock mk3 miners will power an equal number of generators per node? or are there balancing issues to the point where it's better to consolidate all uranium mined to one location?

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:50 PM

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The prototype sitting under the main base is only 1800 stores, for an output of 180,000.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:51 PM

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Yea, I just have a measely 40 or so that I built early on when power was still tight.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:51 PM

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static venture For nuclear, do the nodes work out where max overclock mk3 miners will power an ...

I belt all the uranium to roughly where the central uranium node is and process it to encased cells right there.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:52 PM

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wintry aurora Make them in the shape of duracell batteries, lol :)

I lack the skill & finesse needed to build the towers in to giant batteries.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 3:52 PM

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static venture For nuclear, do the nodes work out where max overclock mk3 miners will power an ...

Depending on recipes used, each uranium node can equal an exact amount of generators

static venture Jan 2, 2022, 3:52 PM

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Thank you guys! 🙂

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:57 PM

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Lol what, I crashed my grid!

magic ivy Jan 2, 2022, 3:57 PM

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cinder silo Lol what, I crashed my grid!

same

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:57 PM

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I'm just not sure how because I only use a third of what I produce.

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And that's with the nukes being off.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:58 PM

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Clipped a cable somewhere I'd bet.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 3:58 PM

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Oh well, troubleshoot time.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 3:59 PM

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Happened to me when I split the power grid in the main base (what I call the main base) without realizing it until the coal generator side crashed. Added a few redundancies after that.

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Having some kind of power overlay would be helpful I think.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 4:01 PM

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Found the fault, I'd actually crashed the impure geothermal, when I hooked in to the rest, they all crashed.

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Hover pack user error basically.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 4:02 PM

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Bruh... Is there a known bug with pipes tired_jace
Second time my game crashes trying to make a certain pipe already disappointed_snutt

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 4:03 PM

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Weird that they'd all crash.

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First time I've heard of that one Vencam.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 4:03 PM

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I'm so in the mood to file a QA report jace_happy

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 4:04 PM

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I had that pipe = game crash thing during my turbo fuel station build, after five crashes I tore a section down and built again.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 4:04 PM

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Your stuff is huge though.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 4:04 PM

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That was all the way back in U3 in my case though, I'm surprised the bug persisted this long.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 4:04 PM

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Oh

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Must either not be a common bug or it's a pretty specific circumstance.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 4:05 PM

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cinder silo I had that pipe = game crash thing during my turbo fuel station build, after fiv...

I'll try rebuilding the buffer, but I should still keep the save since it seems reproduceable (maybe)

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 4:06 PM

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Definitely keep the save, just mark it "crashy" so you don't try to build on it.

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 4:07 PM

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"SFR pipe connection crash.sav" sounds good enough

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 4:08 PM

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There is something weird going on with my geothermals, I'm taking the cables out and rewiring, I connected the crashed grid to the next group and those crashed!

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 4:08 PM

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It's crash day

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 4:09 PM

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Haven't had issues with geothermal, and I used hoverpack all the way. Granted it was connected to the rest of the power grid.

static venture Jan 2, 2022, 4:09 PM

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I'm building and tearing down minifactories to get the last milestone before i start on nuclear lol

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 4:09 PM

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Look at the weird capacity, it plunged hard THEN crashed.

wintry aurora Jan 2, 2022, 4:10 PM

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Deconstruct and replace time I guess.

cinder silo Jan 2, 2022, 4:10 PM

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Doing that now.

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Twelve geothermal power stations are hooked up, it seems to be running properly now.

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It just surprised me that the crash cascaded instead of simply reset.

silent roost Jan 2, 2022, 4:38 PM

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wind spade I'm actually not sure if underclocked machines are better earlier or later in th...

I ran the numbers. For 6.5 smelter producing iron ingots, the startup time is 15 minutes 13.75 seconds if the underclocked machine is first. It is 32 minutes 5.87 seconds if the underclocked machine is last. The difference in production for those first 32 some minutes is 5937.5 ingots vs 6021.5 ingots.

near zenith Jan 2, 2022, 5:09 PM

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wait, double the startup time and barely 1% difference in production? jfc lol

soft scarab Jan 2, 2022, 5:16 PM

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Wait also the underclocked machine last results in more production even with the longer startup time?

silent roost Jan 2, 2022, 5:18 PM

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The only reason for the difference in production comes down to the amount of the input held in the underclocked machine’s input buffer. When putting the underclocked first it withholds those resources from the higher producing machines until the belts are saturated. So the difference in production is not going to be more than the difference of 1 machine at 100% vs 50% for 30 minutes, which isn’t that much.

soft scarab Jan 2, 2022, 5:18 PM

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Ah that makes sense

frosty owl Jan 2, 2022, 6:59 PM

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32 minutes for 6 smelters hehe

warm crown Jan 2, 2022, 8:57 PM

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ok how many materials should i need to make 150 rotors

stuck iron Jan 2, 2022, 9:37 PM

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warm crown ok how many materials should i need to make 150 rotors

What recipes are you using? Satisfactory tools can help you answer that question as well.

native marten Jan 3, 2022, 2:37 AM

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wet yacht Are any of these particularly good and I'm just not realizing it?

at 90/minute the fused quickwire recipe is quite nice. am using that for my pending computer/circuit board factory

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holy crap I was way behind there, just ignore me. that was from like days ago LOL

mortal inlet Jan 3, 2022, 9:13 AM

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can manifolds work in two directions like this? or only one way

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 9:13 AM

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Yes, no issue with that

mortal inlet Jan 3, 2022, 9:16 AM

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great very good

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 2:22 PM

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@proven prawn I divided sushi in these rough categories (very official nomenclature): sushi manifold (literally a manifold, but with a mixed belt and smart splitters, one splitter output per machine input)
Saturated sushi: a FULL sushi belt, capable of backing up and resume operation, but also only capable to feed a si gle machine (through 1 input)
Balanced sushi: sushi belt that can't back up but can feed multiple machines via a single input

Now, both 2 and 3 can be turned into 1 by just adding smart splitters. What I do in my save is a mix of 1 and 3, where in some cases I provide 4 items to some manifacturers via 3 belts (2 items can overflow, 2 not)

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Ofc, sometimes I just manifold and sometimes I just balance too

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 2:24 PM

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I'll probably use the standard sushi complete with smart splitters with my first go during the starter base rebuild after my power tower is completed 🙂

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 2:25 PM

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Many more would do so if we had copy-paste for smart splitters jace_happy

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Oh, right, maybe a guide on "sushi manifolds" might help out too...

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 2:30 PM

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frosty owl Oh, right, maybe a guide on "sushi manifolds" might help out too...

basically sushi manifolds are the ones i right now consider the best and most stable, though the idea in my cases would be try to meet the production numbers of all the machines in the line as much as possible, use smart splitters on all of them so nothing can clog in any scenario and can always resume as long as enough materials are present to feed the entire line, so its like balanced sushi manifolds basically, sort of.

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 2:32 PM

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The last part of your message is exactly why I made a post specifically on "Balanced sushi Splits!" 😁
One can use that either to split balanced sushi lines or just to balance-split mixed belts to then feed sushi manifolds (which can cut down manifold priming times immensely)

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 2:33 PM

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might also extend the idea for the other production methods but still use smart splitters for all inputs of the machines, so nothing can clog in any scenario in those cases also, as it would be the best idea, mainly because that was always the issue with the rod plant, one in which i would definitely want to fix with future designs, that nothing can stop the entire factory from restarting as long as it has enough materials to do so.

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 2:33 PM

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Setting up multiple smart splitters without copy paste can be a pain, even signs get copy paste so I don't get why the splitters don't.

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 2:34 PM

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proven prawn might also extend the idea for the other production methods but still use smart ...

I see some traces of clogging trauma in this message jacelul
||And I feel a bit responsible for that 😅||

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 2:35 PM

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cinder silo Setting up multiple smart splitters without copy paste can be a pain, even signs...

I was so disappointed about that after U5 jace_happy
The moment I read they updated their model and UI I was already assuming they added the copy-paste too disappointed_snutt

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 2:36 PM

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frosty owl The last part of your message is exactly why I made a post specifically on "Bala...

Where’s the post on that? I think I saw it in the questions channel though.

neon compass Jan 3, 2022, 2:37 PM

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fringe pawn Balancing only becomes a problem when people want to do uneven splits like this,...

do people use a specific software to make stuff like this?

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 2:37 PM

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frosty owl I see some traces of clogging trauma in this message <:jacelul:48977794590952652...

naaa don't be, it was a good prototype design, just one that in practice needs some...reworking, though yes I probably do have clogging trauma because of it tired_jace

oblique hollow Jan 3, 2022, 2:37 PM

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neon compass do people use a specific software to make stuff like this?

Its a website

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 2:38 PM

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wintry aurora Where’s the post on that? I think I saw it in the questions channel though.

Funfact: there's less than 8 guides on "sushi", which makes for a very easy search
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/roomxk/balanced_sushi_split_how_to_properly_split_mixed/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share😆

r/SatisfactoryGame - Balanced sushi split: how to "properly" split ...

5 votes and 2 comments so far on Reddit

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 2:39 PM

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Was trying to find it on the discord though.

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 2:39 PM

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Ohhh jacelul

oblique hollow Jan 3, 2022, 2:39 PM

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Fun fact: theres 1 manual for pipes so i hold monopoly jace_smile

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 2:40 PM

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cinder silo Setting up multiple smart splitters without copy paste can be a pain, even signs...

tell me about it...like why tired_jace

neon compass Jan 3, 2022, 2:40 PM

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oblique hollow Its a website

what is the website called?

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 2:40 PM

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oblique hollow Fun fact: theres 1 manual for pipes so i hold monopoly <:jace_smile:527160323644...

Not my fault mixed belts are so interesting there's more than 1 person willing to make a guide on them jace_happy 🤣

oblique hollow Jan 3, 2022, 2:41 PM

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https://www.satisfactorytools.com/

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

neon compass Jan 3, 2022, 2:42 PM

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thx

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 2:43 PM

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oblique hollow Fun fact: theres 1 manual for pipes so i hold monopoly <:jace_smile:527160323644...

So we have learned a important fact, pipes are so boring that nobody wants to make guides about them jace_smile

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 2:43 PM

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Hm, the method I use for the iron and copper sushi manifold works just fine, did have to set the last two to overflow on the main line to keep it from leaking.

oblique hollow Jan 3, 2022, 2:47 PM

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proven prawn So we have learned a important fact, pipes are so boring that nobody wants to ma...

Or so complicated nobody understands them and now they all cower in fear evildoggo

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 2:49 PM

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wintry aurora Hm, the method I use for the iron and copper sushi manifold works just fine, did...

That kind of loop is the kind I'm the most scared of trying, actually 😅 😆
I fear the system might saturate with overflow since there's nothing preventing it from doing so (other than controlling the in-out exactly, which kind of defeats the purpose Imo)

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 2:49 PM

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I sink the overflow.

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 2:53 PM

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and here im designing sushi overflow myself with no fear😆 though i do fear one thing, which is water byproduct, because there isn't a simple way to handle this, infact all kinds of liquid byproducts scare me at this point👀

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 2:55 PM

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Liquid byproducts, either use water in power (coal generator) or package and sink (requires dedicated plastic production)

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Not sure what all of the liquid byproducts are off the top of my head

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 2:57 PM

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thankfully water isn't that bad, as in worst I can just send it to a wet concrete and get it out of systems that way but if i didn't have that alt i would be in trouble🥺

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 2:57 PM

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HOR and water are the big ones.

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 2:58 PM

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Without alternates, HOR>fuel>power/packaged fuel
And as previously mentioned, water into packages and sink or coal generators (which may fluctuate depending on your setup and byproduct amount)

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 3:00 PM

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I used coal power to shed excess water, fewer belts carrying stuff in and no sink installation.

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:02 PM

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Another more complex option in the case of aluminum manufacturing is to have an initial set of refineries fed with water extractors, and additional refineries to consume the byproduct water

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 3:02 PM

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with packaged water being a 1 to 1 conversion would definitely be to expensive compared to even using wet concrete so I can't imagine any scenario in which I would even want to go that route, even with 1:3 plastic alts being as good as good as they are, there is definitely better uses for plastic, sometimes i wish we had like a water sink, but currently only mods provide that solution🥺

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:02 PM

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lol be careful asking for a liquid sink

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very heated discussion in #satisfactory a day or two ago about it lmao

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 3:04 PM

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Limestone is common enough that you can spare some for drainage and there’s usually one somewhere nearby. So, wet concrete makes sense.

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 3:04 PM

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lol i bet, but i can no logical reason at the very least having for not having it for something simple like water.

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:07 PM

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Because ficsit does not waste 🙂

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 3:09 PM

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considering most other things in this game can be sinked currently, even radioactive material with processing like rods that doesn't exactly apply....

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:10 PM

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And for oil byproducts, you can make fuel directly from oil and sink the resin directly instead of having to process it with water if you so choose

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 3:16 PM

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wintry aurora I sink the overflow.

I guess I haven't understood what you mean then thinking_helmet
Aren't you sending the overflow back on the main line (at least for the most precious items)?

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 3:17 PM

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When it’s fully running, there’s no leakage, I can show in a bit.

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 3:24 PM

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frosty owl I guess I haven't understood what you mean then <:thinking_helmet:47992873448112...

i don't think its possible to not have any leakage, at least with a sushi manifold setup, even if its as balanced possible, it wouldn't be able to reach convergence, because of consumption rates and travel distance on belts, in other words the last machines would always have consumption issue, so either you have to go with balanced belts, which makes the setups less compact, or go with excess just so all of the machines stay full, but in either case with manifold sushi your basically always having to sink the overflow in basically all of these cases, though you can reduce the amount by going priority mergers for the main lines, this can reduce the amount of sinking but can't reduce it to zero, this is because we don't have a exact priority merger in game and the math to get the same behavior can't be made to be exact, still with enough work one can still get a fairly efficient setup.

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:25 PM

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One way to "priority merge" is to use lower tier belts to control how much one side merges over the other

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 3:25 PM

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wintry aurora When it’s fully running, there’s no leakage, I can show in a bit.

I can see it not having leaks... But then why set up the overflow to begin with? Or is it just for the startup?

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 3:26 PM

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frosty owl I can see it not having leaks... But then why set up the overflow to begin with?...

For the startup, plus the fact that I'm not actually doing anything with the steel plant atm.

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Give me a bit to actually get there.

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:29 PM

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Would underclocking also be a viable solution to the lack of a priority merger?

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 3:31 PM

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proven prawn i don't think its possible to not have any leakage, at least with a sushi manifo...

I don't quite agree with this. I think leakage can be avoided unless you use only smart splitters
To clarify, I'm referring to that post I made about how a programmable splitter can cause less (if any at all) "leaks" than a smart one (or rather "how to take an exact amount off a mixed belt", just different wording).

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 3:31 PM

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static venture Would underclocking also be a viable solution to the lack of a priority merger?

What do you mean? O.o

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 3:32 PM

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Whole thing, which is almost 3K/m worth of steel.

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 3:32 PM

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static venture One way to "priority merge" is to use lower tier belts to control how much one s...

simply having lower tier belts won't accomplish this fact, this is because the game only uses the merger as just that, a merger, meaning no finite control over which side gets used over the other, and if your doing something like a backfeeding remerging on a manifold sushi line, if you don't design a more complex priority merger, this backfeeding line most of the time won't merge with the main one, or the behavior is mostly unpredictable, especially if your running both the main lines and feeding close to this limit, you can't limit it at these points either by simply using a lower tier belt, as it would basically break the entire system as all the machines in the line would be starved for resources then. So then your basically forced to use a priority merger which does take the ones from the merging line like 99.99% of the time, but then there is that 0.01% of the time that you then need the sink to account for, because of how the math works and all.

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:32 PM

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oh lawdy

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So essentially you're saying you have inputs A and B of the same item, and you want input A to go through most of the time and input B to go through only when necessary

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Sorry just trying to wrap my head around the problem lol

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 3:35 PM

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It'll take a bit of time to spool up to max.

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 3:36 PM

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frosty owl I don't quite agree with this. I think leakage *can* be avoided *unless* you use...

There isn't anything to agree or disagree, this is a fact, manifold setups basically can't properly be done without some degree of excess, all of my testing confirms these results, its because of the fact of a consumption, b that machines all have a stacking amount, and because the delivery from point a to point b takes x amount of time being items aren't actually in the machine until they have been delivered across the belt distance which takes a variable amount of time also, now you might be able to avoid this with balanced sushi lines for sure, but sushi manifolds, no your going to find this task basically impossible because of how ingame mechanics work.

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 3:36 PM

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But I've tested and it runs 100% at 100%

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(my setup, not what slecht is talking about)

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 3:39 PM

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The 0.01% will pass through only if the prioritized belt is full and backing up though!
That's an important distinction, as one can still have the required priority inside certain (controllable) parameters
(This message has been delayed by internet issues)

near imp Jan 3, 2022, 3:40 PM

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can i double check some math with a smarter person

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:40 PM

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That's what the channel is for my guy

near imp Jan 3, 2022, 3:40 PM

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ok

near zenith Jan 3, 2022, 3:40 PM

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the answer is probably 42 though

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so, beware your calc

near imp Jan 3, 2022, 3:41 PM

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so im doing compacted coal and ill write my thought process and someone can tell me if im right or wrong

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:41 PM

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Might be 780 tho never know

near imp Jan 3, 2022, 3:41 PM

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coal gens

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 3:41 PM

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Eep, sulphur is too valuble for that.

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:42 PM

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lol if he wants to do compacted coal he can, nothing wrong with that

near imp Jan 3, 2022, 3:42 PM

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not really in the early game, and ill only waste power if i do it wrong, which is why im making sure my math is right

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:42 PM

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He can go back and tear it down later if it's that detrimental to his experience

near zenith Jan 3, 2022, 3:42 PM

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Eon: let me check my math
#math-and-meta : literally everything you're doing is wrong, so let's start there

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 3:42 PM

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I know but we should present arguments against it and let him make his own judgement 😛

near zenith Jan 3, 2022, 3:42 PM

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we're a loving community, honest

near imp Jan 3, 2022, 3:42 PM

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lol

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 3:43 PM

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proven prawn There isn't anything to agree or disagree, this is a fact, manifold setups basic...

Just as Sev mentioned, there are ways to set it up with no leaks. I suggest you ask him about the specifics, though, given he has more recent experience with such setups ^^ (I'm fairly certain I can set up such a system, but haven't done so recently 🤷‍♂️)

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:43 PM

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It's math and meta not min and max

near imp Jan 3, 2022, 3:44 PM

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mid phase 2, 1200 mw on one pure coal node, a temporary steel factory

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 3:44 PM

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Didn't the MK of the belts involved make quite the difference...?

near imp Jan 3, 2022, 3:44 PM

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ill do everything in a single block so i dont side track, which i tend to do

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 3:44 PM

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It takes a bit but once fully spooled up and equilibriates, there is no overflow. @frosty owl

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 3:45 PM

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wintry aurora It takes a bit but once fully spooled up and equilibriates, there is no overflow...

Much clearer picture, thanks! (Sorry if I didn't answer before, having internet issues)

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Smarts instead of?

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I thought those were outside the context to begin with xD

static venture Jan 3, 2022, 3:46 PM

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A series of splitters and mergers can also emulate a smart merger in terms of ratios from 2 different inputs of the same items

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 3:46 PM

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I have exactly one manifold with smarts, and that's my bio shaker & floor paint maker.

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 3:46 PM

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frosty owl Didn't the MK of the belts involved make quite the difference...?

For which setup, and yea, the buffer is key here for attaining equilibrium.

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bio shaker?

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 3:47 PM

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frosty owl Just as Sev mentioned, there are ways to set it up with no leaks. I suggest you ...

No need I have tested such setups so I know it doesn't work so I'm not going to try to something I haven't been able to prove that it will work with no issues 🙂

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 3:47 PM

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wintry aurora bio shaker?

Chuck in random wood leaves alien carapaces flowers and shit in one end, out the other comes solid biofuel & paint cans in to their own storage.

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 3:47 PM

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Also, this thing uses MK5 throughout because it's 780 all the way through.

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 3:48 PM

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I'm combining that place with a throw crap away sink so it'll do two jobs 🙂

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 3:50 PM

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Avoided the MK5 bug by splitting almost immediately from the miners and then merging close to the machines.

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Meanwhile, yesterday, I thought the MK5 bug was killing another setup, but turned out I had miscalculated how much a MK5 could carry vs the number of buildings I made.

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 4:01 PM

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wintry aurora Avoided the MK5 bug by splitting almost immediately from the miners and then mer...

might be able to achieve some results with https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/m4gpyc/belt_throughput_bug_and_some_solutions/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share as the game seems to like combined belts for precision calculations, could be interesting to test more

r/SatisfactoryGame - Belt throughput bug and some solutions

60 votes and 33 comments so far on Reddit

near imp Jan 3, 2022, 4:04 PM

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cc=compacted coal, cg=coal gen
so first i decided on how many gens to go by, which is 35, by using the 50cc=7cg
and the math im not entierly too confident in is the energy
one cc has 630mj of energy, but it takes 36mj just to produce one, which leads to a net value of 594mj
adding in the fact that im using mk2 miners on 1 normal sulfur node at 208+1/3%(250/m) and 1 pure coal node at 104+.5/3%(250/m), which adds 6((208+1/3)/100)^0.6mj and 3((104+.5/3)/100)^0.6mj, wich is 3 and 9.3mj
that leaves us with 581.7mj
lastly its water, which costs 10mj. With all water extreactors producing 112.5/m(93.75%) water will cost 9,6mj
.75m^3 of water is consumed every second, which means for every cc it takes 6.3 water, which is 60.5mj, which leaves me with a net energy production of 521.2mj

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 4:05 PM

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@proven prawn Using this picture as an example (assume having prefed the machines and sending as much items/min as consumed and that all machine take from the manifold in the same instant, for simplicity): the worst case scenario is one where an item that "should" go to the first machine skips it and goes all the way down the line (since all the other machines don't want that item, only the first machine could accomodate for it). Now, if you take away the overflow belt, that one item either gets buffered by the last machines/belts/splitters or it makes the whole line back up by one item... But in BOTH cases, the issue is resolved almost immediatly as for the next production cycle the first machine will want an "extra" item, meaning one less item will make it down the line, fixing the issue.

near imp Jan 3, 2022, 4:05 PM

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also why is joules defined as watts per second when its the other way around

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 4:05 PM

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Sorry if I'm lagging behind the convo, internet issues

near imp Jan 3, 2022, 4:05 PM

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ik

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i will work on that once i know i am doing the math right

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 4:05 PM

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proven prawn might be able to achieve some results with https://www.reddit.com/r/Satisfactory...

Does that mean it would like suhi belts even more?

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 4:07 PM

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proven prawn No need I have tested such setups so I know it doesn't work so I'm not going to ...

I just care wether or not suche "issues" can be controlled by the user or not ^^
After all, if it's worth battling against complexity to obtain a result or not falls down to one's preferences (on which, I shall not comment)

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 4:07 PM

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proven prawn might be able to achieve some results with https://www.reddit.com/r/Satisfactory...

Also, Taromani tried that and things got buggy and crashy over long distances.

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Don't know what the limit is though.

near imp Jan 3, 2022, 4:08 PM

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near imp cc=compacted coal, cg=coal gen so first i decided on how many gens to go by, whi...

i realize that the water is gonna be the same either way wich makes it pointless to calculate

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the wiki did

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oh wait

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it defined at as mw*s

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im dumb

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well now i dont have to ponder on that anymore

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also i can split the sulfur between the normal and impure node that are next to eachother to increase the net energy

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 4:14 PM

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You should max overclock miners anyway, and if you're that worried about power, you need to build more.

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 4:15 PM

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frosty owl I just care wether or not suche "issues" can be controlled by the user or not ^^...

while fine and good, i only care about end goal production numbers and what can be done to keep those numbers constant, in other words for most of my setups trying to keep a perfect number to consumption basically doesn't work, because of the issues I mentioned which results in worst case the scenario, the last machine waiting for resources some of the time, which definitely always want to avoid, so while there is some ways you can work around this, it would always result for me in most cases with the last machine being starved for resources for some period of time, now maybe if this was a extra machine and production that i didn't care about this would be fine, but i dont design most of what i make that way so its usually not how i plan things out.

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 4:31 PM

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wintry aurora Also, Taromani tried that and things got buggy and crashy over long distances.

Keep in mind I did that with my six bauxite feeds, that are between four and six kilometres in length, the game really didn't like it, got choppy then froze 🥶

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 4:36 PM

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Yeah, no kidding it did for something like that (Taro also passed the object limit, so stability is not a thing in that save anymore 😆)

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 4:36 PM

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🤣

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 4:40 PM

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proven prawn while fine and good, i only care about end goal production numbers and what can ...

What I'm trying to say is that to have that one machines not starving, all you have to do is:
-Prefilling the manifold
-Providing as much as you're consuming (not MORE!
By doing this the only possible scenario should be one where the last two machines keep running at 100% even if you haven't primed those 2 specifically
If that is not the case, maybe you should look into your inputs rather than the distribution system ^^

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Ofc, I understand if you're just sick of dealing with this and want to just manifold it normally, sushi-balance it or whatnot, I'm just arguiging my point that "sushi manifolds done properly don't leak"

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 5:01 PM

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I did have to set the last two to overflow to get it to fill properly. I initially had another smart splitter after the shushi ones as a feedback splitter which sent the leaking bits back into circulation, but then I found that just setting to overflow did the same effect.

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 5:20 PM

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Huh... What do you mean?
Did you set the last 2 splitters on "overflow" towards the middle? Instead of...?

tough hound Jan 3, 2022, 6:15 PM

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@wintry aurora I always put a buffer (storage) in my overflow loop, I think it really helps pre-filling manifolds

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 6:18 PM

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frosty owl Huh... What do you mean? Did you set the last 2 splitters on "overflow" towards ...

I missed your question earlier, lemme get back to the area. Really oughta set up a hypertube or something. Only a few min hoverpack flight from the main area though.

tough hound Jan 3, 2022, 6:19 PM

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@wintry aurora definitely experiment with a cyclotron-accelerated hypertube system, cuts way down on travel time

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wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 6:20 PM

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Wouldn't help if I haven't set up a hypertube over there yet.

tough hound Jan 3, 2022, 6:20 PM

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Also true. But you can use the above as a template for a launcher -- as long as you can run power to it, that'll get you cross-map pretty dang quick

wind spade Jan 3, 2022, 6:22 PM

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I don't like this abuse

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 6:29 PM

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frosty owl Huh... What do you mean? Did you set the last 2 splitters on "overflow" towards ...

What I do is for the last foundry in both rows (what I'm pointing at, and it's backed up now because I removed the sinks for the steel ingots since I didn't intend to leave it that way), I put the two splitters for each machine on overflow for the center and the needed ore for the correct side (yes, I accidentially put the ore on the wrong side for the left set at first), the rest of the line behind those have any on the center.

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(sorry for image wall)

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I did try setting to any or any undefined, but it kept leaking for some reason and making the last one not work so well.

tough hound Jan 3, 2022, 6:46 PM

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Try simplifying and don't run smart splitters? Just do a straight manifold with buffered overflow loopback

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OH I see what you're trying to do, the reason this jams up and doesn't work is because of the way machines process parts:

a smelter will only run a batch of parts when it has BOTH sets (A) and (B) available, but there is space between the smart splitter and the machine, so you can get an extra part of (A) on the line and it'll jam until the machine sees (B) from the other belt. If (B) isn't on THAT belt, the machine jams

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so I don't know if there might be an issue somewhere on the smart-split line, but I can promise you it'll be WORLDS easier to just run two parallel manifolds underneath and belt up to the foundries

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TL;DR I bet the reason you're seeing leaks is because some machines can't take more parts and just overflow, and your overflow isn't buffered so you get even more dips in efficiency

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 7:23 PM

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That's how sushi manifolds are supposed to work isn't it? Looks like the internal buffer is what's making it work.

tough hound Jan 3, 2022, 7:31 PM

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@wintry aurora there are a few other considerations -- your through-belt speed should be as fast as you can manage it, but MUST be faster than the sum total of the parts feeding it at every point

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 7:41 PM

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Hrm, lemme doublecheck that.

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I believe I did overclock slightly to account for 39 when I had 38 so I could do even rows.

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 7:49 PM

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tough hound <@!509492851852181506> there are a few other considerations -- your through-belt...

Yea, I made 26 and overclocked to 1.5, so, it really should be able to work without leaking. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=32BOLYuD6G0qJG7qAXSQ

rapid iris Jan 3, 2022, 8:10 PM

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Ok so lets say i wanted to over clock something for example i geuss to 125% and the cconsumsion rate is 30 items pm what would the math be for that? My best geuss is 30 * 1.25?

soft scarab Jan 3, 2022, 8:17 PM

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rapid iris Ok so lets say i wanted to over clock something for example i geuss to 125% and ...

Yes

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 8:19 PM

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wintry aurora I missed your question earlier, lemme get back to the area. Really oughta set up...

Sorry I've caused you soany back-and-forth 😅 😆

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 8:20 PM

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rapid iris Ok so lets say i wanted to over clock something for example i geuss to 125% and ...

If using satisfactory tools, when the number of machines is over 2.5 for a given item, dividing by the desired number of machines will also give the overclock number.

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 8:24 PM

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wintry aurora I did try setting to any or any undefined, but it kept leaking for some reason a...

Wonderful screenshoting, makes things perfectly clear praisethesun
I got some thoughts on this... Are you fine with the expanded version, or shall I put some extra effort and try making a TLDR? 😆

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 8:26 PM

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Expanded version is fine I guess? It did likely have something to do with the buffer, but I thought the buffer size was the same otherwise.

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Using the feedback method to keep it in the system did work though.

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 8:28 PM

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You're right about that (it has to do with the buffer) the point is how you use the buffer. By chance, have you read my post about how programmable splitters can take items off a belt better than smart ones?

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 8:29 PM

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Was that the reddit post? I'll look back at that. I did a quick read of it earlier.

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 8:30 PM

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Well, as long as you're familiar with the concept it's fine

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 8:31 PM

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Poggers are more intelligent than smarts.
That's why they require supers.

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 8:31 PM

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The point is how using different settings to let the items flow through the splitter affects the internal buffer of the splitter (both pogger and smort) and in turn the output of the item you're actually filtering for

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This can make the difference between having leaks or not

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 8:32 PM

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Iirc it is setting the middle to both Any Undefined and Overflow?

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SEE I DO LISTEN WHEN YOU TALK

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 8:34 PM

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https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/roomxk/balanced_sushi_split_how_to_properly_split_mixed/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share😆 Shouldn't this still work with MK5? Maybe it was marginal enough for the smart splitters buffers to catch it here.

r/SatisfactoryGame - Balanced sushi split: how to "properly" split ...

5 votes and 2 comments so far on Reddit

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 8:34 PM

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median heath Iirc it is setting the middle to both Any Undefined and Overflow?

Though on this point I realized something, reading what smjjames wrote earlier: using a smort with "any" in the middle should actually yield the same exact result as "any undefined+overflow" with a pogger
Which, as obvious as it may be, is something I haven't really thought about yet 😅

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 8:36 PM

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wintry aurora https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/roomxk/balanced_sushi_split_h...

Oh, no, that's for exact splits, the manifold doesn't require that 😁 (since the splitters back up on items, the exact amount of items is pushed through regardless of how precise the split is when the belt isn't full)

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And no, with MK5 input the split is not even anymore delayboi

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 8:39 PM

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I did try setting the others to overflow while testing it, but it felt like it was filling up too slowly, so, I set it to any. Not sure what effect on leakage that would have though.

modern coral Jan 3, 2022, 8:40 PM

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What is the best way to split into 5?

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 8:40 PM

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wintry aurora I did try setting the others to overflow while testing it, but it felt like it w...

TECHNICALLY, I think the whole manifold would fill up faster using overflow thinking_helmet
Using "Any" should send both ore 1, ore 2 AND overflow from the other outputs through the middle, right?

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 8:41 PM

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modern coral What is the best way to split into 5?

Look up 1 to 5 balancers.

modern coral Jan 3, 2022, 8:41 PM

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wintry aurora Look up 1 to 5 balancers.

Ty

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 8:41 PM

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modern coral What is the best way to split into 5?

Split in 6, merge 5 together and merge the remaining 1 with the input (before you split in 6)

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This works for any 1:X split btw~

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Alright, I got sidetracked... Let's get to the point xD

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 8:45 PM

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frosty owl TECHNICALLY, I think the whole manifold would fill up faster using overflow <:th...

Normally it would send the overflow, but I believe it was also partially because the copper and iron didn't fill up in sync, so, the iron was ahead somewhat.

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 8:47 PM

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I'm not too familiar with that recipe, so that might be the case thinking_helmet
My point was based on the assumption that a manifold fills the fastest if you fill up the machines in succession, leaving all the other ones without ore if possible

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I think that the version you made using "any" for all splitters but the last couple that has "overflow" instead should run without too much leakage. I fear there might still be leakage because I don't trust smart splitters to not have leaks using "any" (I made this point a few messages back, where I prefer poggers instead)

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It might work, it's just a gray area for me 😅

wintry aurora Jan 3, 2022, 8:49 PM

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It may also have been that I didn't sink a little bit of the ore from the manifolds first, so, there ended up being some extra iron in front. Regardless, once it completely filled up, it was fine.

frosty owl Jan 3, 2022, 8:51 PM

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I know for certain: using programmable splitters sending "ore 1" on the right, "ore 2 + overflow" on the middle and ONLY THE LAST COUPLE without overflow, the system doesn't leak at all. The last machine shouldn't fill either

I'm just trying to understand if using "any" with smorts can reproduce this exactly (or if it has enough leeway to not have issues even if it doesn't do the exact same thing)

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I could just do some testing and figure it out... tired_jace

wind spade Jan 3, 2022, 9:02 PM

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modern coral What is the best way to split into 5?

Manifold

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

proper karma Jan 3, 2022, 9:28 PM

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I use a 6 splitter then have the extra line loop back into the main feed

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 9:35 PM

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That would be the Balancer method.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 9:50 PM

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so why not use more quartz in the calculator @wind spade?

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I like to use silica in my alu ingots to save on bauxite

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 9:51 PM

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16,000 power stores down, 16,000 more to go!

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 9:53 PM

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uh? you mean those battery thingies?

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 9:54 PM

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Yeah, part of my emergency power system.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 9:54 PM

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jeeze

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 9:54 PM

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I'll get some distance from the facility and snap off another picture, it is a bit large.

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Bigger than I anticipated in fact.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 9:55 PM

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no doubt if you've placed 16k of them

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how is that affecting fps?

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guessing its not to bad as you're probably cpu limited anyway 😛

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 9:55 PM

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It did judder somewhat as I moved away from it to my starter base, I need to stage more materials because all the industrial cans that were full of parts are now empty and moved to the roof.

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Still looms quite large and I backed quite far away.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 9:56 PM

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got some RCUs going last night and I'm starting to notice the cpu load now

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heh, nice looking

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 9:57 PM

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It's 4 structures of ten floors each right now has 4000 stores, 400 per floor.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 9:57 PM

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I am considering to fill a floor below my fuel plant

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 9:57 PM

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The original plan is 20 floors, accessed and connected to the mains from below.

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There is a 3x3 tower in the centre of all four of those towers that has a stair well and access to them.

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 9:58 PM

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Is this a 'hey, look what I've got' setup, or you actually need that much?

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 9:58 PM

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whats the clearance needed for the batteries again?

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no clipping

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 9:59 PM

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Less than one foundation across, I allowed for a full foundation though.

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 9:59 PM

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powers torage? 6x6m. fits nice one per foundation

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 9:59 PM

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This place is the ultimate backstop and hedge against balance changes causing nuclear chaos since I'm retiring the turbo fuel.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 9:59 PM

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thinking height

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was it 10m?

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:00 PM

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The place is only half built, the roof is just bare concrete because that's where floor 11 is supposed to go.

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 10:00 PM

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in scissors mode or without?

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:00 PM

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scissors mode?

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:00 PM

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something tells me it was 2 wall sections + the new 1m tall and a 1m on top for the floor

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 10:00 PM

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cinder silo scissors mode?

the one where you get a lot of clippings

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:01 PM

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Eww, no clipping in there.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:01 PM

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I got 16m or less below my fuel plant to work with

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:01 PM

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That's the arrangement, taken on the incomplete ground floor yesterday before any of the curtain wall went in.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:02 PM

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guess I can't fit two floors of batteries in that

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:02 PM

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The catwalk stairs are 8m right?

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No 4m, sorry I'm not thinking right.

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 10:02 PM

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cinder silo The catwalk stairs are 8m right?

1 wall height

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:02 PM

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the new ones fit in one 4x4 section no?

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 10:02 PM

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shrewd yacht I got 16m or less below my fuel plant to work with

two and half wall + whatever the wires and floors take.

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:03 PM

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three catwalk stairs up to the top of the power store.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:03 PM

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ok so I can only fit one level below

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 10:04 PM

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unless you start thinking 3-dimensionally, instead of 2,5D

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:04 PM

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When I get it added, the bottom floor of the central (tiny) tower will have the power switch that is to be thrown in case of emergency.

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Right now I'm taking a break from construction, I'm going to be seeing bloody batteries in my sleep 😦

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:06 PM

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so the batteries need 12m clearance above

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3 regular wall sections + a 1m one for the 1m foundation on top

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:07 PM

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At the minimum, you can see the walkway running near the top of the battery is 12m above.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:08 PM

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if only we had lower and thicker ones

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:08 PM

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I probably should have build power stores all over but I have had this place in the planning stages for months, It's only now my nukes are ready to run properly I focused my attention on it.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:09 PM

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they are just 1-2m to tall to fit in the same 3 wall section height that the smaller builds do

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like constructors and smelters

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:10 PM

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I build my factories with 20 metres clearance, I can put the lights overhead along with power connectors without it looking painfully cramped.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:10 PM

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though with the lights and stuff now I might add another wall section to give it more air

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I did this with some manufacturers...

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:12 PM

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When this emergency power tower is completed it will make for one hell of a screenshot, I'll probably name it "the Tunnel Rat's folly" for the likelihood of it actually being called in to service, but I'd rather have it and not need it, than need a power source and not have.

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 10:13 PM

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cinder silo When this emergency power tower is completed it will make for one hell of a scre...

Make sure you add the "Practical Purpose: BECAUSE I COULD, OK?" in there somewhere 😉

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:13 PM

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that building fits 12 manufacturers

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could have gone with the steeper roof to give more space for lights

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:14 PM

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median heath Make sure you add the "Practical Purpose: BECAUSE I COULD, OK?" in there somewhe...

I could definitely do that 🙂 , I actually hope I don't need it, but if nuclear takes any balance changes that tower will have enough capacity to run all my stuff for weeks on end while I unfuck everything.

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 10:14 PM

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what kind of balance changes could make nuclear stop permamently?

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:17 PM

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I actually don't know, that's why I'm hedging, the last nuclear changes through a lot of people in to disarray with the 10x waste production and the addition of the plutonium cycle, Sooo, I'm taking no chances since I'll be running on nukes exclusively before too long.

near zenith Jan 3, 2022, 10:19 PM

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median heath Make sure you add the "Practical Purpose: BECAUSE I COULD, OK?" in there somewhe...

oooo, that's a good one, if it's four towers you can label them B, I, C, O

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:22 PM

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Hmm, some of my stores haven't refilled since I filled dozens of industrial cans for the construction project, I have no choice but to take a break while my starter base recovers.

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I need another 80,000 stators, I have 11,000

wind spade Jan 3, 2022, 10:28 PM

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shrewd yacht so why not use more quartz in the calculator <@242004363730616322>?

Wdym

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:29 PM

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noticed in many setups you use pure alu ingots instead of the one with silica

wind spade Jan 3, 2022, 10:29 PM

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I don't, the tools pick them

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:29 PM

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is quartz valued for other things maybe?

wind spade Jan 3, 2022, 10:30 PM

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Tools pick most resource efficient recipes

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Weighted resource efficient to be exact

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:30 PM

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based on total available on map or?

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:30 PM

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I use pure aluminium, I cba with silica!

wind spade Jan 3, 2022, 10:30 PM

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Yeah they are weighted based on total map availability

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:31 PM

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limiting factor in game right now is bauxite afaik?

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:31 PM

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pure alu saves 60 quartz but uses 28 bauxite
since for every 1 bauxite theres 1.1 quartz on the map it efficient to do that trade

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:31 PM

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so I try to use cheap silica to save on it and use the abundant limestone as well

fringe pawn Jan 3, 2022, 10:31 PM

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The point at which you're using default alu ingot, you're probably also using cheap silica.

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 10:32 PM

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have you maxed all the bauxite nodes yet?

fringe pawn Jan 3, 2022, 10:32 PM

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But I agree pure ingot is fine for most people

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:32 PM

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thorn bane pure alu saves 60 quartz but uses 28 bauxite since for every 1 bauxite theres 1....

I never thought about it that way, I aimed to eliminate silica and simplify the aluminium production. the place is large enough as is without swapping 144 smelters for a similar number of foundries 🙂

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:32 PM

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can't remember the smelter vs foundry number atm

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I think space wise its around the same as you use less foundries

wind spade Jan 3, 2022, 10:33 PM

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If you don't want pure alu, disable it 🤷

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 10:33 PM

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foundries need more beltwork

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:34 PM

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its just more resource efficient since you save more quartz than you lose bauxite

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:34 PM

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Oh I do disable it, just wondering about the weighing of resources and why silica combo was not used by default

wind spade Jan 3, 2022, 10:35 PM

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Resources are weighted based on map ratio. So f.e. if iron is three times as common as copper, using 2.9 iron is better than using 1 copper

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:35 PM

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or in this example theres 9780 bauxite and 10500 quart so 1 bauxite is ~1.1 quartz

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:36 PM

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I see, so saving 80 bauxite to make 780 ingots is not enough because it cost almost 300 quartz

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:36 PM

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exactly

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its more simple and uses less space

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kinda dont like recipes that are more efficient without downsides but 🤷

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:38 PM

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my thinking was that "what else am I going to use the quartz on?"

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:38 PM

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When running on a large scale, the extra belts can be a bit of a chore, but nothing serious, I just prefer the sloppy>pure approach because I was also able to more easily deal with the resulting math to boot.

wind spade Jan 3, 2022, 10:38 PM

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Or rather quartz is ~6.703 and bauxite ~7.196

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:38 PM

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I do use silica for the circuit boards, and crystals for oscillators

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:39 PM

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shrewd yacht my thinking was that "what else am I going to use the quartz on?"

silicon circuit boards
insulated crystal oscillators
infused uranium cells
crystal computers

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:39 PM

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caterium computers tbh

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:39 PM

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ye id use that aswell but if you have a bunch of spare quartz why not

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:39 PM

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bit more of a pain with all the wire, but plenty of caterium around

fringe pawn Jan 3, 2022, 10:40 PM

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Even if you use cheap silica, default ingots are pretty expensive in terms of quartz. Sloppy+electrode+default ingot (maximum possible ingots) still uses 7~ quartz for every 9.8~ bauxite. That's most of the quartz on the map, leaving you little room for oscillators and RCUs.

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:40 PM

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both quartz and caterium are both used to help with other resources like copper/oil even though they are not strictly better

wind spade Jan 3, 2022, 10:40 PM

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Better is very subjective anyway

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:41 PM

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one thing weighted resources misses is that 40% copper 40% caterium 40% quartz is better than 120% copper (since thats not possible)

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the circuit boards are an example of this where the default recipe is actually less weighted resources than silicon and still nobody uses it

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:41 PM

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and I'm not going nuclear unless I have to so no need for quartz there

wind spade Jan 3, 2022, 10:42 PM

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Hard to quantify that when each resource can only have one value 🤷

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:42 PM

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I'll suck up all the oil before nuclear 😛

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probably going to be limited by sulfur tbh

fringe pawn Jan 3, 2022, 10:43 PM

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Map location matters as well. If you've got oil and bauxite in the same place, and quartz and coal are relatively far, you're going to want to do electrode, sloppy, and pure ingot.

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:43 PM

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shrewd yacht probably going to be limited by sulfur tbh

nuclear uses alot less sulfur

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:43 PM

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Nukes aren't so bad but you should build the entire chain before throwing the switch so you keep radiation off the map if that is a concern for you.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:44 PM

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doubt I'll ever build big enough for it to be an issue

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a mk3 on normal sulfur node can support two turbo fuel plants and that is a lot of power

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:45 PM

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I originally built a colossal turbo fuel before update 4 and the nuclear waste processing was a thing, I had no intention of just storing huge amounts of indestructible waste forever, so I had enough fuel generators to match the output of 50 nukes, trouble is, that place is in the spire coast, so I built nukes afterall 😄

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 10:46 PM

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shrewd yacht caterium computers tbh

Crystal Computer or riot.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:46 PM

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LOL

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 10:46 PM

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(Literally the only PC recipe I use)

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:47 PM

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I use caterium computer, the output of two computer manufacturers fits perfectly per one super computer manufacturer.

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 10:47 PM

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Crystal lines up perfectly with RCUs.

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:48 PM

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Sounds like an excuse for me to have both going 🙂

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:48 PM

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imagine caring for ratios jacelul

wind spade Jan 3, 2022, 10:48 PM

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Underclocking ftw anyway

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:48 PM

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I just simply produce enough for both and split the belt 😛

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and underclock or sink whats not used

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 10:48 PM

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Fair. But as you said, what else are you using Qtz on?

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Computers seem to be the decision point.
If you go Ct, you're swimming in Qtz.
If you go Crystal, you're swimming in Ct.

🤷‍♂️

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Like, I was genuinely trying to find a spot for QW Stators because I have so much extra Ct.

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:49 PM

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Use both for some semblance of balance so you're swimming in neither ?

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:50 PM

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so basically do both?

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:50 PM

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caterium computer vs crystal

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 10:50 PM

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PRETTY COLORS

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:50 PM

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one for the RCUs and one for SCs?

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:50 PM

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as you can see crystal uses way too much quartz

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 10:50 PM

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Not sure why your Ct is using Qtz at all.

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:51 PM

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silicon circuit boards

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 10:51 PM

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shrewd yacht one for the RCUs and one for SCs?

Unless you're using RCUs in your Supers recipe 😉

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 10:51 PM

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thorn bane silicon circuit boards

Ct Circuit Boards >>>

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Also how tf are you using Nitrogen in a PC recipe?

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 10:52 PM

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thats not just computer thats everything

fringe pawn Jan 3, 2022, 10:52 PM

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Silicon circuit board and crystal computer? Computers without oil.

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:52 PM

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Oil is outright abundant, I don't see any reason not to just use it.

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 10:52 PM

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fringe pawn Silicon circuit board *and* crystal computer? Computers without oil.

Without how many PCs I make... I don't think I'd have enough Qtz for that 😂

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 10:52 PM

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use caterium to make copper wire, problem solved

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:53 PM

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oils is not an issue tbh

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 10:53 PM

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Ct CBs all day. But Crystal PCs

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:53 PM

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and with the new nodes we got plenty

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:53 PM

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I need to feed more belts to use more of the coke my existing refinery throws up though, it's being wastefully sunk instead of turned in to circuit boards.

fringe pawn Jan 3, 2022, 10:54 PM

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cinder silo Oil is outright abundant, I don't see any reason not to just use it.

Location. There are places with quartz that aren't particularly close to oil.

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 10:54 PM

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Need an AIL alt that uses CBs..

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:54 PM

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distance doesn't matter 😛

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:54 PM

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fringe pawn Location. There are places with quartz that aren't particularly close to oil.

Location isn't anything that can't be fixed with trains trucks belts and drones.

shrewd yacht Jan 3, 2022, 10:54 PM

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pipe it or train it 😛

fringe pawn Jan 3, 2022, 10:55 PM

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cinder silo Location isn't anything that can't be fixed with trains trucks belts and drones.

Right. That's an increase in complexity, though. It's not better or worse, it's just different.

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:56 PM

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True, I have been single minded enough to belt 300 quartz 10km for my nuke setup on the opposite corner of the map, as such I seldom see distance as an issue, other people have differing thought processes.

fringe pawn Jan 3, 2022, 10:56 PM

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At no point have I ever seen trains as a time saver versus long belts. That is only my own experience.

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 10:57 PM

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Trains are more of a throughput saver when saturating long belts, and you'd need two, you can just double a mk5 belt though and still get 780 to point b

elfin stump Jan 3, 2022, 10:59 PM

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Once you have a rails looping around the whole map, hooking up new resource deposits and delivering them wherever you need them is so much easier than building long belts

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 11:00 PM

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I never managed to fit the stations in to small locations, it always looks outright odd.

fringe pawn Jan 3, 2022, 11:02 PM

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Here's my factory, incidentally. Plenty of drones in use, but there's no obvious place that trains would be worthwhile: #screenshots message

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 11:03 PM

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blue is belts red is trains
but then again the easiest solution is to just not have long logistics and just use the resources as early as possible

median heath Jan 3, 2022, 11:05 PM

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Trucks >>>

thorn bane Jan 3, 2022, 11:05 PM

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xd

cinder silo Jan 3, 2022, 11:07 PM

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Trucks do have the advantage of needing very little infrastructure.

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 11:09 PM

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versed violet what kind of balance changes could make nuclear stop permamently?

more waste per minute would do it yes but really I hope no more balance changes are done as I think its about as balanced as it can be now, though i wish power usage went back to the way it was, aka consumption of fuel was equal to how much power was actually being used, but no idea if that would ever be changed, but i wish that part at least was changed.

fringe pawn Jan 3, 2022, 11:14 PM

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There's my bauxite feed (2 pure and 1 normal) coming out of the jungle down to the Islands oil fields. Even with zooping now making trains and towers easier, I think long belts are still the easiest way to bring these together. Now that trucks don't fall through the map I can see an argument for those, but that requires more terrain clearing and ramps.

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I use that example because it's my longest belt.

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 11:21 PM

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I am confused.
I sent my building train to resupply, and after it finished docking, I've set the destination back to build site (only destination).
The train left the base, arrived at my refinery midway, entered the loop at said refinery instead of going to build site, turned back and went back to my main base.
There is turned around again I think, and is now going to refinery again... WTH?

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 11:24 PM

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check the loading settings, are these fluid trains, are they set properly to wait until they can fully load, did you make sure to properly set the waiting conditions also?

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 11:24 PM

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no waiting conditions, pure default load

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now the train arrived at my building site, waited for couple seconds, then.... drove away

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https://giphy.com/gifs/desusandmero-funny-lol-DyvyiFFXF1Yli

Giphy

Desus & Mero

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 11:27 PM

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versed violet I am confused. I sent my building train to resupply, and after it finished docki...

Base at bottom, refinery on right, build site top. the train arrived and drove away... double headed train, if that matters, but base station has only one entry, so it cannot turn around.

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 11:29 PM

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versed violet no waiting conditions, pure default load

am i understanding that its going to a station that it its not set to in the timetable or am i misundestanding the issue🤔

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 11:30 PM

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proven prawn am i understanding that its going to a station that it its not set to in the tim...

It looked like it went back to main base station, but I'm couple km away, so didn't see if it arrived there, or just turned around before base at another loop.

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 11:33 PM

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versed violet It looked like it went back to main base station, but I'm couple km away, so did...

I would for sure either way go check on it and drive with it as it goes along the path to get a clearer idea of whats going on.

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 11:46 PM

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proven prawn I would for sure either way go check on it and drive with it as it goes along th...

I sat with it. The train returned to refinery, turned around at the loop there, then went back to my building site. This time it stayed at the station. I'm confused wth just happened.

proven prawn Jan 3, 2022, 11:48 PM

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versed violet I sat with it. The train returned to refinery, turned around at the loop there, ...

and what is set in the timetable as it should be following🤔

versed violet Jan 3, 2022, 11:49 PM

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Just a building site as only destination. And the station is dead-end, so it should just stay there... unless it wanted to drive away, turn around, and arrive with other end in.