#math-and-meta

1 messages · Page 583 of 1

subtle crescent
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From there, Branches are the easiest with 25 Constructors printing Branches for the cost of 1 Gift. Which means I'd need 250 gifts per minute. And the Bundles... 1 Bundle is 2/min in the Assembler for One Copper Ornament and One Iron Ornament, each at 2/min production rate. Which is the hardest one, I think?

noble linden
obsidian ermine
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How much 16 coal generators consumes coal?

fierce ruin
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All 16 of them will.

obsidian ermine
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How much per min?

fierce ruin
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15 each.
So 16 x 15.

obsidian ermine
#

Hmm

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Many thx

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Ty

surreal dune
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isn't there a chart somewhere on the wiki that shows the consumption rate for every fuel type? been looking for a bit now and can't find the thing

timid cradle
subtle crescent
wind spade
#

consumption rate depends on clock speed and power production of a gen, it's better to use energy values to compare fuels

timid cradle
#

Would this be the correct place to share a splitter calculator that I made?

magic ivy
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Yes

wintry aurora
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Sure, might have to ask mods for link whitelist though.

timid cradle
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I made it for myself and felt like sharing.

wintry aurora
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<@&387163995947270144> Can we get this added to #welcome maybe?

magic ivy
timid cradle
#

Well, it's good that someone besides me thinks that 😅

wind spade
#

would be nice if I hadn't to install tons of stuff to run it 🤔 😄

timid cradle
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Well, Python should be simple, but I don't really know much about installing Graphviz as it was apparently already installed with some other package on my system...

wintry aurora
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Um, oh, no idea how to use python.

wind spade
#

yeah, though having it as a web app would probably be way cooler and more useful for non-tech-savvy people 😛

noble linden
timid cradle
#

I would make it a web app if I had any experience whatsoever in them, but if someone who does wants to make it one that'd be pretty neat

wind spade
#

one of two reasons why I didn't include balancer planner on my site is that I don't think they are useful at all in satisfactory. They may be useful in some special cases, but pretty much always there's a (subjectively) better way to go around that.
(second reason being that I was lazy and didn't want to research how to make the code that would generate it in optimal way)

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I wonder tho, the numbers are in weird places, is that some kind of bug or?

60to15.png
wintry aurora
#

Looks like some kind of electric logic graph to me.

timid cradle
#

From what I've read online, that's related to line engine being dumb with labels

magic ivy
timid cradle
wind spade
#

btw, do I see correctly that you try to split using a full belt?

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I mean try the possibility in the code

timid cradle
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Yeah, the idea is using a smart splitter set to send all down that one belt, then overflow the rest.
the result being a fully saturate belt and a belt with less items on it. The items siphoned off can then be re-added to an output, giving more possibilities for simpler setups

wind spade
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I see. Just so that you're aware - that doesn't always end with the exact ratio you're looking for

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people reportedly pushed +1-2 items/min on mk1/mk2 belts

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anyway, if the tool would be able to output data (e.g. json format) instead of image, that would make it a bit more useful imo

patent briar
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satisfactory tools is not making the math very easy here NGL lol

unknown.png
wind spade
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(at least for me playing with it 😄 )

wind spade
frosty owl
timid cradle
wintry aurora
wind spade
#

what I wanted to do for my website (but probably won't unless there's enough requests for it) is "balancer analyser", you make a balancer and it tells you how it splits resources

patent briar
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Id rather water as an output of Aluminum scrap not be used as the input for any recipes, even sloppy alumina

wintry aurora
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So, splitting might actually put you back on square one.

patent briar
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And instead just be listed as an output

wintry aurora
timid cradle
patent briar
wind spade
patent briar
#

the loop back mostly just clogs it up visually and makes it harder to read, and then also introduces these bugs

near zenith
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rofl, greeny flexin on suggestions now

patent briar
wintry aurora
wind spade
# patent briar Oh interesting, thats pretty cool

if you just care about the number, then in the main row at the top there's total production and total consumption, so you can just take the total production and produce that much (and burn the extra byproduct water somewhere else)

magic ivy
#

there was an item dupe glitch that was found

patent briar
# wintry aurora What bugs?

Well less bug and more that it connects water outputs to inputs of whatever it can, so you get weird stuff like it suggesting this

unknown.png
wintry aurora
#

If you mean splitting off to other stuff? Yea, I had it split off to residual rubber for some reason

patent briar
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(note the water output of aluminum scrap is being suggested to pipe into the residual rubber recipe)

wintry aurora
wind spade
wintry aurora
#

On a small scale it’s probably fine, but on that scale?

patent briar
wind spade
patent briar
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ah lol, kk

wintry aurora
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Although for me it didn’t send all of the water to residual rubber, just some of it.

wind spade
patent briar
#

Offhand I would say, perhaps have two "types" of water. Water "output" and water "raw" so to say

wind spade
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yeah I kinda already know if the source node is "miner" or "recipe" (gray or orange node)

patent briar
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And then modify the... two I think it is? I guess three, recipes which output water to instead output "output water"

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I would straight up prefer if it never suggested to consume "output" water and instead it just displayed it as an "output" box, I can figure it out from there

wind spade
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ah like that... not really sure, as that would mean I'd have to hardcode stuff in otherwise automated data and also a lot of people like the feedback loops 🤔

patent briar
#

would make the graph a lot easier to follow I think

wintry aurora
#

No#t everybody is as mathy as you are though.

patent briar
wintry aurora
wind spade
#

I'm not really sure how would that work on low-level (the linear solver). I'd have to think about it

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technically for the water it's possible, but I assume you mean any feedback loops?

wintry aurora
magic ivy
#

what about a water disposal that pumps water into river so that I don't have to package+sink or wet concrete+sink the excess water

patent briar
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Also another feature I would love is the ability to "hide" (grey out and make way less visible) a node

#

Via just a checkmark on its corner

wintry aurora
wind spade
# wintry aurora Interested in checking that out.

it's pretty much ready at this point. Only thing missing is power consumption for particle accelerators (the variable one, not yet implemented, working on it now). I could probably even release it now, but I kinda want to do it afternoon-evening EU time

patent briar
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Cause water connects to everything so, it adds a lot of clutter Id like to hide

wind spade
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so in... 12-16 hours, roughly

wintry aurora
#

Well, take your time on it. :)

wind spade
magic ivy
patent briar
wind spade
#

no, but would be probably way easier to implement 😄

wintry aurora
wind spade
#

since I can keep the solver as it is and just change how it displays the visualisation

patent briar
#

Ideally it would work such that, if I check off a node, it also greys out all its children nodes "before" it that dont have any other parent nodes still checked

wintry aurora
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Water is the one big violator here with the lines at the start really.

patent briar
#

So if I have Iron Ore -> Ingots -> Sheets, and I check off Ingots, then Ores+Ingots grey out

wind spade
patent briar
#

But if I also had Iron Ore going into, say, Steel ingots, then Iron Ore would not grey out yet til both Steel Ingots and Iron Ingots were disabled

wind spade
wintry aurora
patent briar
#

Oh gotcha, that was a thing?

wind spade
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was

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it will probably eventually come back, just was lost while doing big changes to code

wintry aurora
wind spade
#

or rather, I'm sure it'll come back in one way or another, just not in today's update

wind spade
patent briar
#

just gotta throw a lil recursion in there :3

wind spade
#

I could, it's just that this way it enables the feature to be used in more ways

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e.g. people can "mark" which parts of the production they already built

wintry aurora
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Currently I just kind of shove them in the back or something.

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Edit: stupid autocorrect.

wind spade
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yeah, I really want the feature to come back, it just has to be re-implemented back since the code to generate the graph changed so much

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(and I also want to do it in slightly different way)

timid cradle
wind spade
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yeah, I didn't look at the code too much (also I don't know python), I just read readme 😛

timid cradle
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Well, one of the options I added to the YAMLs is format, which sets the format the graph uses.

wintry aurora
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What is YAMLs?

timid cradle
#

The YAML Files the I'm using to simplify input settings.

wind spade
# 
this:
  is:
    - yaml
    - it's
    - a:
      - configuration
      - format
timid cradle
#

YAML Ain't Markup Language™

wintry aurora
#

Lol

timid cradle
#

YAML is like JSON, but more human readable at the cost of being slower to load

wind spade
#

and not being interpretable directly in javascript

timid cradle
#

Well, YAML being a superset, you could probably through the same data at my calculator in JSON, tell it to out JSON, and not actually have to worry about YAML

wind spade
#

I just like json since it's so much easier to work with it (machine processing) and pretty much all languages support it natively

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I had some issues with some more exotic languages that they didn't have yaml parser natively

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(also I don't like that it relies on indentation)

timid cradle
#

That's fair.
Though apparently Java also doesn't have a built in JSON reader yet... somehow... how do people do Java... (yes I know Java and JS have nothing to do with eachother)

wind spade
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and finally, doesn't like tabs for indentation 😄

timid cradle
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Yeah, well, the first language I really got into was python... which has very similar rules to for whitespace...

wind spade
#

yeah, I don't like that 😄

timid cradle
#

Still better than XML, so much unnecessary stuff

#

can JSON support multiple "documents" in a single file?

wind spade
#

oh don't talk about xml to me 🤢

wind spade
#

you can kinda do multiple by just setting the root value as array

timid cradle
#

I figured as much once PyCharm started yelling that JSON standard only allows one top-level value.

wind spade
#

tbf I've never encountered a problem where I would need to have multiple top-level values

timid cradle
#

That should be easy to shove in though. Just gotta check if it's a JSON, then read the first item as a list. I'll do that later though...

wind spade
#

since usually top level value is object anyway, so I can put all needed "top level" values as parameters in that object

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(which also makes it good for things like APIs and such, since newly added "top level" values don't change much for existing software that uses it)

timid cradle
#

I mainly just liked the --- to separate the sections.

wind spade
#

most of the JSONs I deal with are generated automatically anyway

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(and processed automatically)

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I agree that for manual configuration yaml could be better (or ini file), but for anything else it's always json for me

timid cradle
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ᴰᵒⁿ'ᵗ ʸᵒᵘ ʲᵘˢᵗ ˡᵒᵛᵉ ʷʰᵉⁿ ᵈᵒᶦⁿᵍ ˢᵒᵐᵉᵗʰᶦⁿᵍ ᶦⁿ ᵃ ˢᶜʳᶦᵖᵗ ᶦˢ ᶠᵒʳ ˢᵒᵐᵉ ʳᵉᵃˢᵒⁿ ᵍᶦᵛᶦⁿᵍ ᵃ ᵈᶦᶠᶠᵉʳᵉⁿᵗ ʳᵉˢᵘˡᵗ ᵗʰᵃⁿ ᵈᵒᶦⁿᵍ ᶦᵗ ᶦⁿ ᵃ ᶜᵒⁿˢᵒˡᵉ
I was using the wrong variable...

wind spade
#

oh yeah the classic...

WHY WOULDN'T THIS CODE WORK, I'VE DEBUGGED EVERYTHING FIVE TIMES AND oh there's a typo here

timid cradle
#

I lied, I did it now. It should also read jsons now, though I only tested one file...

patent briar
#

One of my worst times was when I spent like two days trying to figure out why stuff was broken.

I had a string variable we will call foo.

I had accidently called a method like:
myMethod("foo")
instead of
myMethod(foo)

Which since it was expecting a string and got a string, it didnt throw exceptions, it just behaved weird and not how you would expect.

patent briar
#

I cant figure out why this specific intersection is broken

unknown.png
#

8/8 of the signals on the intersection behind, left, and right of this intersection are all good and working

foggy jay
#

its litt

patent briar
#

And then forward, 7/8 signals working, with the one block signal broken

unknown.png
patent briar
# foggy jay its litt

Oh sorry, I screenshotted when they flickered off, the 4 path signals in the first pic are all flashing error

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the 4 path signals in pic 1, and the block signal in pic 2, all give "Signal Loops back on itself"

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Ive deleted the signals at these intersections and remade them, no dice

foggy jay
#

No serious, that is a litt train intersection (when it works)

patent briar
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yeah I have dozens of em now

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only this one specific of them is broke, rest are working fine

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I presume its some dumb problem several intersecctions away and the chain of fucking up shows up actually here or something

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Im flying around inspecting all nearby intersections for errors but nadda

wind ledge
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Rebuilt the intersection will be good choice.

patent briar
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Tried that, no dice

foggy jay
#

i got a problem that when i make a straight track, when i create it from the existing track its all nice, but when i start from a couple foundations further and conect it to that track it gets wobbely. These little things could be going on for you Soralin

patent briar
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nah its not that, tracks are straight and fine

jade violet
#

Hello, I know this is probably a stupid question but how can I calculate how many rotors I can make without any alternate recipes and making 240 Iron Rods/ Min? I know I need to convert some rods into screws but not sure the ratio.

gloomy palm
#

can't link threads by name hm

fierce ruin
#

oh wow, I'm a bit late

cloud tree
#

I have a computer factory making 30 computers p/m. I would like to use 8 p/m somewhere else, whats the best way to split it from the output belt ?

near zenith
#

belt splitting is an inexact science, it'd probably be simpler to rejigger your computer factory to make a specific number of machines produce the 8 in total, and split them off as a dedicated output belt from the other 22, instead of merging them all to 30

cloud tree
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thx for the advice

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sadly the design is just made to throw out 30 on a belt hehe, machine wise and placement wise

near zenith
#

yea, i was hoping you wouldnt say that 😛

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splitter wise, probably do something like 30 -> 10 x3, and then 10 -> 3.333 x3, then 3.333 -> 1.111x3, and merge a 3.33x2 and a 1.111

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gets you around 7.8ish without much fus

fierce ruin
near zenith
#

but also yea, manifold and overflow is the simplest overall option

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think long term production times, everything will balance out

cloud tree
thorn bane
#

inexact science he says pff

unknown.png
near zenith
#

rofl, forgot that someone posted that splitter program last night

frosty owl
near zenith
#

so yea, not inexact, just annoying

thorn bane
cloud tree
#

damn thx

thorn bane
#

but ye as usual just manifold xD

near zenith
#

manifolding is the belt version of "you'll eat this dinner and you'll like it, and you're not leaving the table until the plate is clean"

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gotta love it

thorn bane
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credits to @timid cradle for that awesome tool btw
would be even more awesome if we had a web interface 🙂

wind spade
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Or you can just plop down a splitter and it will self-balance eventually

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Nvm discord didn't scroll

austere tiger
#

Anyone have any good video sources on the math of the game I can watch listen too?

wind spade
#

yo, is there anybody that could run a test for me ingame (or knows this)? I'm looking for the info how do particle accelerators behave when overclocked. For example, plutonium pellet recipe - they have between 250 MW and 750 MW consumption. What range of consumption do they have when overclocked? 🤔

olive venture
#

hey guys - so I'm working out some setup plans and I'm seeing some difference in numbers for output in blended turbo fuel

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the official wiki states that 300 oil/min should output to 800 blended turbo fuel/min (assuming I use diluted fuel and the heavy oil recipe)

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but all my math is working out to half that number in the planning tools

wind spade
#

which tools are you using?

olive venture
wind spade
#

can you share the production line so that we can have a look?

olive venture
#

ignore the byproduct for now

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that's just autofiller - I'll probably keep it as plastic and feed it into my systems

thorn bane
olive venture
#

I'm only missing the turbo blend fuel recipe at this point so I'm getting close to a weekend of mega power plant building

thorn bane
#

seems like max consumption is way off

wind spade
#

yeah it probably doesn't account for the changing power

thorn bane
#

both ends are * 2.5^1.6 so as expected

wind spade
#

yeah I was expecting that, just wanted to confirm before I put that into tools and show to people 😄

thorn bane
#

had to hook this up to 3 nuclear power plants btw snuttstach_stare

wind spade
#

sorry 😦

thorn bane
#

i like how it starts under the max cons.

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no idea where the 2295.3 comes from

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like wtf is this number

unknown.png
wind spade
#

is the PA the only thing hooked to the grid?

thorn bane
#

yes

wind spade
#

then no idea lol

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anyway, thanks 🙂 last piece of today's update should be ready in an hour or so

thorn bane
#

ok wtf is this number
its 1500 without oc so max consumption of the particle accelerator

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oooh i think it gets the first number that it was started on and makes that the max consumption
wtf

wind spade
#

yeah that would've been my guess as well 😄

olive venture
#

so before I wander off and try and redo this math by hand

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any insights?

wind spade
olive venture
#

you know, it does say that

unknown.png
#

I just assumed the table implied turbo fuel

wind spade
#

is that fuel page or turbofuel page? 🤔

olive venture
#

Is this one of those "you know what you get when you assume..." moments isn't it

wind spade
#

ah

olive venture
#

let me plug that in and see what I get

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yup - that was it, misread what the wiki was saying

abstract talon
olive venture
covert flume
wind spade
olive venture
#

^

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the flow chart just takes the math work out for me, but leaves the building/planning to me

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it's my happy medium

abstract talon
shadow pine
#

So i have a input of 720 iron and need to make a effective smart plating farm. (by effective i mean everything is always moving and constructors/assemblers never fill up)
How do i make one?

wind spade
#

that's a weird definition of effective

fierce ruin
shadow pine
wind spade
fierce ruin
#

Reasons.

wind spade
#

makes it harder for everyone

shadow pine
#

cos they told me to put it in there but also told me the correct place to put these questions is here. my bad sorry

wintry aurora
wind spade
wintry aurora
#

Cool.

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Not live yet though looks like.

wind spade
#

yeah. Still working on the last part

thorn bane
wind spade
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(which is making sure that particle accelerators display proper power)

wind spade
thorn bane
#

my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined

wind spade
#

(also, it isn't ready yet 😄 )

wintry aurora
#

Oh hey, it decided to send water to the wet concrete plant, which is over a mile away, lol.

9aa88277-425e-4c69-a7fc-c7f99bd5522d.png
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Firefox made it transparent apparently.

wind spade
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wow nice background 😄

wintry aurora
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That's firefox's fault.

wind spade
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if you copy the image using rightclick on visualisation, it will be transparent in all browsers

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since it has transparent background 😄

wintry aurora
#

Oh, sorry.

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I can fix that by putting it as auto supplied though.

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Oh come on now.....

bd5810cb-a0bf-4714-bde2-aa02a5c66b2c.png
wind spade
#

lol

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just screenshot it or send share link 😛

wintry aurora
wind spade
#

@thorn bane you happy now? 😛

thorn bane
#

its beautiful ❤️

unknown.png
wind spade
#

inb4 flood of bug reports of stuff I didn't manage or forgot to test

fierce cypress
#

hehe still hasnt loaded

unknown.png
wind spade
fringe pawn
#

Oof. I'm not going to have as much time to play around with that as I'd like. Haven't even really touched Ficsmas yet either.

wind spade
fierce cypress
#

yea its still /production

wind spade
#

(F12 on chrome)

fierce cypress
#

wait it just loaded 👍

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might be my slow internet jacelul

wind spade
#

may just be slow internet or large production lines

fierce cypress
#

hehe i just found out i need more power jacelul

wind spade
#

I can revert the update so you won't know about that thonk3D

fierce cypress
fringe pawn
#

U5 tools loaded everything I had before today successfully. At a glance I like it!

tropic hawk
#

just found out that the reason no one was responding to me on the Satisfactory reddit was because Reddit had Shadowbanned my account... 😦

rose steeple
#

@wind spade regarding the json file you gave me.
What is the deserialized structure of the recipe and item.
Cuz idk which are ints, uints and doubles

wind spade
#

json doesn't have uints nor doubles

rose steeple
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I know, but like the deserialized types do

wind spade
#

that is language specific

wintry aurora
#

The new one kind of makes things more spread out, but I can see that it tries to keep lines clear.

rose steeple
#

Yes but like for items there's "sinkPoints" and I assume that's not a floating point number.
And at least "stackSize" isn't either.
I'm mostly just curious what values they can be so I can set the correct deserialized type

wintry aurora
wind spade
wintry aurora
rose steeple
#

So "fluidColor" is an object comprising of integers or floating points?

wintry aurora
#

The excess ingots is just me accounting for what I already had in the area, because I needed to set up signs for those.

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Electrode scrap is still trying to give its water everywhere.

wind spade
rose steeple
#

Well some of the values are both

wind spade
#

then they are float 🤷‍♂️

rose steeple
#

hence why I am confused what they are supposed to be

wind spade
#

in json it's number for both cases, so it doesn't show decimals if it's .0

rose steeple
#

Depends on the json library

wind spade
#

🤷‍♂️ that's implementation detail, json supports both

wintry aurora
#

You have an errant 'recipe' text at the bottom of the page btw greeny.

vast jungle
#

yes, JSON doesn't consider "integers" and "floats" to be a thing... its just numbers with optional fractional digits

rose steeple
#

and optional exponent 😉

wind spade
wintry aurora
#

I thought it was tab related, but it doesn't depend on the tab.

rose steeple
#

Didn't realize the json file contained more than just recipes and items, so thanks 😄

vast jungle
#

this kind of mismatch between serialization and internal storage can really be a pain for things like key-value maps... or comparison of function output with a testcase result

wind spade
#

technically you can just set everything to float lol

thorn bane
#

hahahaha nice name

rose steeple
wintry aurora
#

How do you set the sink stuff? Or is the talk about floats and sink points for later?

wind spade
#

it's just about which parameter in json is float or int

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which I don't know because javascript 😄

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so basically just "check the datasource if it contains float, if not, it's int"

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not like I can guarantee that it contains float/int anyway

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since it's automatically parsed from game data

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and devs can change it at anytime

rose steeple
#

Well my parser deals with that.
But I have an automated deserialization function that converts the json object into a C++ struct.
The thing is that C++ struct has to be defined at compile time you know

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It's not the worst is it?

unknown.png
wind spade
#

how does your parser deal with the fact that devs may decide in some update that something will change from int to float? 😛

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also that last > not being on new line pains me

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(not even talking about naming 😄 )

rose steeple
rose steeple
wintry aurora
#

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=xAfw2CJ90sVl60Y3DwLv Net concrete reads a little odd because I set the items input for that to 200, but it reads as 0/m and net is technically correct as it's subtracting, but it's starting from 0. The consumption percentage seems correct though. Looks like it's working correctly, just displaying a bit oddly.

wind spade
#

now, if only I could remember the reason

thorn bane
#

fused wire
ah a man of culture

wintry aurora
#

What?

#

It's an option.

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And I chose it for power savings or whatever.

rose steeple
#

Ok guess what I just made deserializing an integer also allow coming from a floating point 😉 ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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Bruh wth that shrug command removed a line

wintry aurora
#

Would be nice if the scrap water stuff behaved better though..

wind spade
rose steeple
#

Even though that truncates the decimal digits and might overflow if the number is too big

#

there's the removed line xD

wind spade
wintry aurora
#

That makes sense.

wind spade
#

yeah, I'm not sure how to resolve this. I don't like the negative net, but I also don't like input being part of production 🤔 (what if you don't use 100% of input? is all production or just the used part?)

wintry aurora
#

Why did it place residual rubber way down by aluminium production though?

vast jungle
thorn bane
wintry aurora
#

I know I can move it, just seems odd considering how it tries to keep things more together.

thorn bane
wind spade
wintry aurora
#

Ok.

vast jungle
wind spade
#

basically I have no control over where nodes are placed and I didn't write the software that I use to generate the placements 😄

wary parcel
#

Is there a downside to doing 1 train + at least 1 freight car per product made at large factories?
For medium to low volume items I was thinking of making dedicated trains that do not use overflow splitters to dump into Sinks but I feel like I'm missing something here.

For example modular frames could be made at one factory, go onto one freight that is dumped at multiple sites needing modular frame. As long as one destination factory isn't 100% the throughput I feel like this would work.

vast jungle
#

so if you want to transform JSON data into native structural data, use a JSON schema

vast jungle
thorn bane
#

i think its actually better
i feel like the cost of mixed trains outweights the benefits

vast jungle
wind spade
wary parcel
#

Yeah, I currently have mixed trains and I'm not that happy with it. Feels like a lot of my time is just setting up the overflow splitters and then trying to calculate if I need to move it to a 2nd car because the 1st car may reach the max throughput of even 2 t5 belts.

thorn bane
#

mixed trains is like mixed belts imo
you can do it but i wouldnt recommend it

wind spade
#

I wouldn't even do overflow splitters for trains, just hook each belt into one freight car

#

and on the other side use exactly the amount that was on the belt

wary parcel
#

Yeah I like that idea, use backpressure to stop production if it isn't needed. Overflow splitting everything means the factory is always running at 100% even if most of the low value items are just going straight to the sink.

vast jungle
wary parcel
#

Yep that's what I have with Silica right now and I don't like it. So much just going to the sink.

#

Ok thanks for the info. I'll try building it all out. Haven't figured out if want a separate train for "storage & sink" but at least this a start.

vast jungle
#

I did a "compromise solution" today for my oil setup... I have a dedicated Rubber and a dedicated Plastic train station... and a third one that carries away a mix of "a bit plastic, a bit rubber, some fabric, some filters and some packaged fuel"... but the third is just to deliver stuff to central storage

#

better than to build 5-6 train stations

thorn bane
#

i even go further and only have 1 product per train so i can use "wait until full" but then again i dont have that many trains

rose steeple
#

What's gonna happen now when I deserialize the entire json file? snuttstach_think

wary parcel
#

Yeah I wish Programmable splitters had a "counter & reset" mode, that would make them worthwhile.

wind spade
vast jungle
#

so you can say "if type is number, make it a float" and "if type is integer, make it an int"

rose steeple
#

But sadly I don't have the schema

ashen girder
vast jungle
wind spade
#

so the information is unavailable to me already

thorn bane
rose steeple
#

I guess it's possible to check out the source header files

wary parcel
ashen girder
vast jungle
thorn bane
#

my info is in regards to ratio splitters
"thats in my (mark the SF game director) backlog, because i think at a certain point you just go full manifold on everything, you dont do balancing, i think it would be fun to bring back some form of balancing"
"especially because the programmable splitters right now are kinda shit"
so definitely coming soon ™️

ashen girder
#

🤷‍♂️ Fair enough.

fierce ruin
#

Idk what "counter and reset" means tbh.
And as much as they may change poggers to be ratio splitters, I'm hoping it is just ratios and not exact ppm amounts..

wind spade
thorn bane
#

oh awesome didnt see that one yet

rose steeple
#

Tokenizing the json file xD

unknown.png
wary parcel
rose steeple
#

I doubt these numbers are correct

unknown.png
wind spade
#

they seem fine (except for items)

fierce ruin
ashen girder
rose steeple
wind spade
#

but yeah except for items the other numbers are fine

wary parcel
wind spade
#

(or rather, it's roughly what I think how many there are)

rose steeple
wind spade
vast jungle
#

we just got "load/unload" filters for train stations... and I am not even sure what to do with them... because they don't solve the issues I had with mixed trains 😉

still trout
#

just make your factories be able to input weird numbers bruv

ashen girder
#

They're just as programmable as a programmable thermostat. 😂

fierce ruin
thorn bane
wind spade
# fierce ruin What about odd ones? 😉

like we can build pretty much everything from splitters and mergers, giving the splitter ability to split in exact ratio is pretty much the same as giving it ability to split exact amount and that just defeats any point of making nice balancers (balancers would turn into manifolds with ratio splitters)

rose steeple
#

@wind spade how fast does it read, parse and deserialize the json file in javascript for you?

wind spade
thorn bane
#

but dont manifolds already defeat the point of building balancers?

rose steeple
fierce ruin
still trout
wind spade
rose steeple
#

to use for things?

wary parcel
wind spade
wind spade
rose steeple
wind spade
still trout
#

discouraged? pfft, i spam too many conveyors

fierce ruin
rose steeple
#

See it takes 20 ms to read, parse and deserialize.
Don't know if that's good or bad xD

ashen girder
#

Genius Splitters that take quantum computers. 😄

thorn bane
wind spade
still trout
#

i wanna make a factory with sushi

#

would be fun

rose steeple
#

That's just impossible to read ngl

thorn bane
#

honestly ive thought about making a new huub0 restart with 100 programmable splitters from the start

ashen girder
wind spade
ashen girder
#

That's like cracking open some IL or Java Bytecode and saying that.

wind spade
#

if you want to read code, just go to the github and read the typescript code before compilation 😛

fierce ruin
rose steeple
ashen girder
rose steeple
#

That js file is just impossible to read compared to assembly

ashen girder
#

Not if you know what you're looking at and for.

wind spade
#

that's just mostly caused by removed whitespaces 🤷‍♂️

ashen girder
#

It's just as hard to read as assembly.

wind spade
#

and yeah I can read it decently

ashen girder
#

And if you use an actual tool meant to read it, it's even easier. 😂

unknown.png
rose steeple
#

Well of course I can read it.
But it requires too much brain power to read it

ashen girder
#

But, again.. why would you bother trying to read compiled code?

rose steeple
wind spade
#

especially if the thing is opensource

rose steeple
#

True

ashen girder
rose steeple
#

But you gave me the link so

wind spade
ashen girder
#

Transpiled and uglified and minified code.

#

It's technically transpilation.

#

Which apparently is actually a shortened form of "transcompiler", so it's absolutely still compiled. 😂

rose steeple
#

Compilation is the process of taking code and compiling it into an assembly language.
Then you assemble that into machine code for the target.

Transpiling is the process of taking code in one language and translating it into another language.

ashen girder
#

That's an utterly meaningless distinction.

wind spade
#

transpiling is subset of compiling anyway 🤷‍♂️

#

though wiki on typescript mentions that it's "typescript compiler" and it "compiles" 🤷‍♂️

#

not like this is important or relevant to anything anyway

ashen girder
#

"tsc" literally stands for TypeScript Compiler. 😂

rose steeple
#

Yes they are wrong to a degree, but I guess call it what you want 😉

wind spade
#

I also love how typescript compiler is written in typescript

rose steeple
#

Just like C++ compilers are mostly written in C++

thorn bane
#

what if someone made a backdoor in the typescript compiler
no one would ever find out SnuttTongue

ashen girder
#

Deno's written in JS, which a lot of people find to be an amazing contradiction.

rose steeple
#

Yes entirely possible

ashen girder
rose steeple
ashen girder
#

I thought we were done with the whole compiled-languages-better thing.

thorn bane
ashen girder
wind spade
#

anyway yeah if you want to read code, feel free to go to github and read the typescript instead of trying to read the compiled/transpiled/transplanted/copied/whatever thing that comes out of webpack

rose steeple
#

Anyways I didn't so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

ashen girder
#

I, too, didn't.

rose steeple
#

I only wanted to know how fast JS would read, parse and deserialize that json file I got from you

#

But turns out you just put it in the source xD

ashen girder
#

The Svelte way.

#

Who needs dynamism when you can just make it the right way from the beginning?

wind spade
#

js probably doesn't even need to do that, since it's mostly eval(json)

#

(since json is valid javascript object)

ashen girder
#

Not if it's JSON. And JSON.parse is actually pretty slow.

wind spade
#

what a surprise since it's JavaScript Object Notation

ashen girder
#

Now you've got me curious if you can just eval it. Not that you ever, ever should..

wind spade
#

const result = eval(json)

ashen girder
#

Fun fact. You can't in the console.

wind spade
#

or just eval('const result = ' + json);

wind spade
ashen girder
wind spade
ashen girder
#

Yeah, that works but you can't actually access result outside of it. 😂 But yeah, point made.

wind spade
ashen girder
#

Should, yeah.

#

It's just because const result is scoped to the eval.

wind spade
#

or right

#

var could do the trick I guess

ashen girder
#

let result; eval('result = ' + json) should do it too. 😛

#

But even still. eval and with. Two keywords we don't ever need to use in JS-land.

wind spade
#

yeah lol dw I won't

#

also it seems webpack does indeed use json.parse

unknown.png
ashen girder
#

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. It's slow, but it's "slow" in the sense that it's plenty fast for most uses.

wind spade
#

I don't even think there's a faster alternative anyway

ashen girder
#

Writing it as an actual raw object would be faster.

#

But probably not measurably noticeably. Before the pedants get me.

wind spade
#

I guess, but I eventually want to put this thing on server anyway

#

instead of being served with each request

#

mostly for the purpose of multi-version support

rose steeple
wind spade
#

it's pretty hard to measure in the middle of all the other code

rose steeple
#

sad

wind spade
#

it's like... browser does all the things at the same time

rose steeple
#

Trying to parse it in js just doesn't seem to want to work xD

unknown.png
wind spade
#

or you have invalid json

rose steeple
#

Works fine with my parser

#

And it's the file you gave me after all

wind spade
#

the file works fine with every parser 🤔

#

did you by accident insert a character in it or something?

rose steeple
#

Don't believe I did

#

That's the character it is referring to so idk

unknown.png
wind spade
#

how did you load it to js?

rose steeple
#

Copied into a `` string

wind spade
#

maybe it has max length? or something?

rose steeple
#

Could be, but I don't think so

wind spade
#

it's weird doing it this way anyway

rose steeple
#

Yeah I know but I didn't want to convert the file into a minimized version

#

Well I could host the file to test that way

#

Ok how do I read a file in JS?

wind spade
#

depends if you're in node enviornment or not

#

node has fs

#

in browser you kinda have to request it

rose steeple
#

Just barebones html in chrome

soft scarab
#

You could import D3 and use that

rose steeple
soft scarab
#

There’s probably a cleaner way

wind spade
# 
<script src="jquery.js"></script>
<script> $.get('file.json'); </script>

😄

rose steeple
#

jquery?

soft scarab
#

If you have a url to the file there’s json.parse

rose steeple
#

oof

rose steeple
soft scarab
#

Oh yeah jquery would do it lol

wind spade
# 
function httpGet(theUrl)
{
    var xmlHttp = new XMLHttpRequest();
    xmlHttp.open( "GET", theUrl, false ); // false for synchronous request
    xmlHttp.send( null );
    return xmlHttp.responseText;
}
soft scarab
rose steeple
#

Lmao that worked

#

But it didn't at the same time

wind spade
rose steeple
#

Anyways it parses it in 16 ms...
Guess I've got to do a few things to improve mine

wind spade
rose steeple
#

I ran python3 -m http.server first 😉

wind spade
#

that doesn't change anything related to javascript

#

json.parse can't do local files, it only does strings

rose steeple
#

I'm guessing the `` string was probably changing the content in some way

wind spade
#

yeah you should be using '' string

rose steeple
rose steeple
wind spade
#

you know you timed it together with the http request?

rose steeple
#

Yes

#

I wanted everything

austere tiger
#

I am working this out in my head correctly right? like this works?

factmath.png
wind spade
rose steeple
wind spade
#

any text editor -> replace "\n" for ""

#

or just json minifier online

rose steeple
#

xD

soft scarab
austere tiger
#

a who?

fierce ruin
#

Manifold.

wind spade
# 
--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X
austere tiger
#

oof that hurts my head a bit but i think i understand

cinder silo
#

Looks complicated but trust us, it isn't

soft scarab
#

If you have enough inflow, you can have one line that goes with individual branches to each machine and it’ll all work out (eventually)

cinder silo
#

A view from one end of a manifold.

Caterium_Manifold.png
fierce ruin
#

Send all down the line and when it fills, the excess moves as the exact amount.
Instead of trying to make it exact beforehand.

rose steeple
#

I guess this puts things into perspective a bit more...

unknown.png
cinder silo
#

I tried the load balance thing and failed hard, I'll take another look in the future.

austere tiger
#

Oh i see, yah that makes sense for sure! For this particular instance i'm trying to make a truck route from my coal to my main power station which is currently belted, so i want to build and establish the network before switching fully to it, so i need some coal to go to the fuel for the tuck depot which wont give me quite the 120/min but at least i can test it for now

rose steeple
#

Just do a regular splitter into the fuel port of the truck station

#

It will fill eventually and will 99% of the time stay full

cinder silo
#

Power is one area I wouldn't use trucks personally, one flying or falling truck could crash the whole grid.

fierce ruin
#

Just truck slightly more than you need and it's fine.

austere tiger
#

good point on both accounts

fierce ruin
#

If the truck falls or flies it resets itself with the new system in U5.

#

People really need to stop hating them based on how they were.

cinder silo
#

I haven't tried them in a while, back when I last had a flying truck I think it made it to orbit and never came back.

fierce ruin
#

See previous.

#

People keep speaking to how trucks used to be.

rose steeple
#

The problem with trucks is that they are slow as heck, and mostly fail when trying to transfer multiple items in one

cinder silo
#

I don't hate on them I'm slow to trust things when they have gone bad in the past. Will I use them, sure, but in my own time.

fierce ruin
#

The "problem" with trucks is they are capped at 1560 per station.

#

Which is coincidentally more than a single train car can do.

cinder silo
#

If the pathing is good they look to have brilliant throughput for not much infrastructure 😄

fierce ruin
#

And I used mixed trucks plenty. They work perfectly fine.

patent briar
#

@wind spade the new "Items" overview for tools is amazing, its exactly what I needed. This is tremendously easier to parse and makes everything "at a glance" now, amazing work!

gleaming sedge
#

Trying to make a 100% efficiency Rotor Assembler.

#

input 90ore, split 3 times to 30 in each furnace.

#

The rectangles are constructures. The top constructor is split into 3 and 1/3rd (5 of 15 rods) is moved down to bottom as r5.

soft scarab
gleaming sedge
#

no, what are manifolds?

#

I'm new to the game.

soft scarab
#

Scroll up about 1 hr

# 
--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X
fierce ruin
#

New-People-Meta channel when? 😭

gleaming sedge
#

What is it? Just a series of splitters?

wind spade
soft scarab
#

Yeah if you have 1 input line with the throughput you need you just have it split off to each of the outputs. No need to balance individual belts manually

fierce ruin
#

In between the "let me ask a very basic question in the math-meta channel" phases.

#

I'm aware I'm being a dick atm.

gleaming sedge
#

So I could just completely scrap these two sections and use manifolds?

fierce ruin
#

Yes.

gleaming sedge
#

You replied before I posted the image you tool.

fierce ruin
#

Insults are fun.

#

My answer doesn't need an image.

gleaming sedge
#

I shouldn't have called you a tool. My apologies.

#

Tools are useful.

fierce ruin
#

Subtle insults are even more fun.

#

Yes you can always manifold instead of any other splitter configuration you can think of is always true.
So image is not required.

gleaming sedge
#

@soft scarab When you said to use manifolds, I can just use manifolds in those areas I just blocked off?

fierce ruin
#

Yes you can always manifold instead of any other splitter configuration you can think of is always true.
So image is not required.

soft scarab
#

(Assuming the belt has capacity to serve / carry the throughput)

gleaming sedge
#

Ok.

soft scarab
#

And if you wanted you could put a manifold before the rod constructors too. That gives you more flexibility in base layout

gleaming sedge
#

I have the two stages there.
Rod production (remainder of 5)-> assembler.
rod production(adds the remainder of 5) -> screws -> assembler.

#

so If I run manfiolds along pmuch every line there inbetween stages. It will automatically distribute the appropriate inputs?

fierce ruin
#

Yes.

soft scarab
gleaming sedge
#

So it has to stack up and overflow first?

fierce ruin
#

Indeed.

#

Once full it will take only what it requires from then on.

soft scarab
#

In order for the end of the line to reach 100% efficiency, yes

gleaming sedge
#

I was doing load balancing.

soft scarab
#

Yup

gleaming sedge
#

Ok so my setup still works. It's load balancing.

#

Manifolds are just a different method.

fierce ruin
#

Yes.

soft scarab
#

I haven’t checked your math but presumably yes

gleaming sedge
#

Ah ok.

#

Thanks for the info but I'm going to keep playing with load balancing. I know its not easily scalable but it is in factors of 2 and I rather enjoy the precision of it.

soft scarab
#

Manifolds are generally easier to work with - less space required, less math/headache, and they work just as well. But load balancing can be a fun puzzle and if that’s how you like to play by all means go for it

fierce ruin
ashen girder
#

Doesn't have to stay factors of 2. 😊

gleaming sedge
#

Yeah you're right, it doesn't have to be only in factors of 2, but its easily scaled up if it is.

#

If I went with manifolds it wouldn't have been as Satisfactory as the feeling of perfectly load balancing.

patent briar
#

I still cant for the life of me figure out why this signal is broken. Ive torn down nearby intersections and rebuilt them, replaced signals, still no dice

unknown.png
#

Its just giving the "signal loops back on itself" message which is very unhelpful

patent briar
#

Finally figured it out, not sure why but the trick is, one of the signals is bricked but simply rebuilding it wont work

#

You have to place a path signal before it, delete it, and then the intersection will start working, then you can re-place the path signal in the right spot and delete the temp on

patent briar
#

@dusty cedar Like so? Moving to this channel cause we can post pics

unknown.png
dusty cedar
#

well you would need a lot of pumps to move the water up 500 meters and the power draw

#

yet that's a example I figure

#

I don't have pics

#

just explaining the mechanics Scalti and TotalXclipse have demostrated in their content on youtube

#

Scalti's video on it is back in Jan. yet if CSS did not change the flow mechanics and they featured a water tower in their content involving U5 with the community managers I figure it is a permissible way to pump water and other fluids to higher levels without pumps on every single pipe

wintry aurora
#

They haven't changed flow mechanics to my knowledge.

dusty cedar
#

if so, then you could use a oil tower to raise the the oil to a raised refinery building for procesing

#

or water up to a refinery making solution for alumina

#

only using pumps on a pipe line to the tower then a key pipe to give the other pipelines the headlift of the fluid buffer tower's height

#

The Scalti video is Water Tower Mechanics guide

#

and he even uses the mechanic to supply his coal generators with water though the extractors are below with only pumps on the supply line to the fluid buffer giving headlift via the key pipe to all the pipelines

thorn bane
#

sure you can do that
but you can also just slap on 50 pumps since power is practically free in the late game

vast jungle
#

You could also transport the water with a train and build a train spiral

patent briar
#

So this doesnt seem to be working. I have one way valves on the key pipe pointing downwards, and the key pipe is currently empty though

#

Do I need to have the key pipe filled perhaps?

#

Red being the key pipe of course

#

ah yeah okay, it seems the headlift from the key pipe works as if it is, itself, a giant fluid buffer

#

the headlift the key pipe puts on the others is equal to how full it is

#

As I watched my key pipe fill up, the pipes beside it started filling up and lifting to match along with it

#

As you can see here, the key pipe is only just filling up and the pipes it goes to are still not filling (the one full one is the "main" pipe with the actual pumps)

unknown.png
#

But the moment the key pipe in this section started filling, all the other pipes started filling right alongside it

unknown.png
#

This will mean, btw, going down from 750 Mk2 pumps (6000MW) to only... 30? 40? Mk3 pumps? (320 MW)

foggy jay
patent briar
#

I think this should work then, gonna test this out on my dedicated water pillar #1 and hopefully, I should get 31 free pipes of lift without any pumps on em

unknown.png
#

Blue pipes are the normal ones, light blue is the Primary pipe (the one that will get pumps), and red is the key pipe

vast jungle
#

I think the main issue with this kind of trick is that it might stop working at any time when they revise/fix the fluid handling system

patent briar
#

Maybe, I think though that might be a ways away tbh, this sort of stuff is actually kinda tricky to work on and finicky, so I can see it being a "save it for later" sort of deal

vast jungle
#

you need 19200 Water "up there"... do you need it for power (nuclear) or do you need it for production?

patent briar
#

And its actually 45,000 water I need :3

vast jungle
# patent briar yes

if its only for production I would consider a train... but for power I would go for pipes with pumps.

patent briar
#

My entire everything is 500m up in the sky, city block base, its quite fun

vast jungle
patent briar
#

Nah, using the tower trick which I have hammered out, the power is quite cheap

#

I can comfortably do 32 pipes of water up using only 10~11 pumps total, so about ~88MW to move 19,200 kL water/min

vast jungle
#

just don't be surprised if it stops working after an update... I don't think this is a feature 😉

patent briar
#

Thats fine, I should have nuclear up and running before then hopefully and then I wont have an issue needing a couple extra GW for all the pumps proper

thorn bane
#

15 uranium fuel rods is 3.75 plutonium fuel rods not 1.33

#

also i feel like with that many space elevator parts youll be done before you even get all of it running
so maybe go for something more awesome points oriented
i did 20 ADS 2 PTR 4 magnetic field generators 1 pasta for example because by the point i got the 20 ADS ready i was already almost done with pasta/ magnetic field generators.

patent briar
#

I dunno if it matters a tonne which you sink for points. This is also just phase one.

#

In other news... I think I have figured out a way to achieve 100% throughput on trains.

If you balancer split resources into 2 separate train stations and alternate which is picked up, and 1 station can handle 100% throughput, your resource will just go into the not-docked station, so items always flow

vast jungle
#

I typically attach an ISC to each freight station to buffer the 15 second loading delay

thorn bane
#

every machine in the game except for miners has enough buffer for 30 seconds of overproduction

reef belfry
#

I wonder is it worth it to package crude oil for train transportation, since packager does this at measly 30/min rate. That would mean 40 packagers for MK2 pipeline (20 to pack and 20 to unpack, now thats 400MW, on the other hand I can just add more carts for way less power (assume 1 locomotive-4 carts train, that's 30ish MW per cart)

#

So 40 packagers vs twice the carts, or is there something I'm not seeing?

wintry aurora
wintry aurora
#

@wind spade Um, if you switch tabs, are things you moved around supposed to reset? Not sure if that's a bug or if it's always been like that. Just wondering as I wanted to isolate things I needed to change in order to add in something I forgot, but it's not that big a deal.

wind spade
#

Yeah, they do reset... it's planned to change in the future

wintry aurora
#

'k

mental needle
wintry aurora
#

So, um, a setup like this to act as the hub for the whole nodes extractors (max 2,100/m) should work fine, right? I made it so that I wouldn't need to calculate each individual extractor and instead just plug into it as needed and mark the consumption for them as a whole.

unknown.png
fierce ruin
wintry aurora
#

Why? lol

fierce ruin
#

Chaos. 😈

wintry aurora
#

Also, the game is lacking nitrogen gas icon for the signs, pfft.

wispy cradle
#

I was playing on Update3. that time, the all-resource meta was turbo-motor production, and oil was the bottleneck. What the equivalent now?

wintry aurora
#

Plutonium rods? I don't know.

ashen girder
#

Sulfur and ADS/TPRs.

oblique hollow
wintry aurora
#

But 600*4=2,400?

#

My logic is that it needs room in order to flow at max 2100 if needed.

oblique hollow
#

assuming 4 output pipes at random spots, 2 layers are more than enough

wintry aurora
#

What about more than four at random spots?

oblique hollow
#

you said 2400 output, right?

wintry aurora
#

2,100

#

That's the max capabiliy of the node.

oblique hollow
#

if you have more pipes at random spots then its just random shifting of this connection pattern

#

point is: 2 layers is enough

#

give me any combination of output pipes and ill draw a flow connection diagram

wintry aurora
#

My thinking though was that I'll need to allow the flow to be able to reach 2100.

oblique hollow
#

nah

#

junctions have no limit

#

so thats no issue

#

you can stuff 1200 into one junction

wintry aurora
#

Oh, I was thinking in terms of like how coal plants work vs MK1s.

oblique hollow
#

its a similar case too, partly

#

if you had 2 layers of pipes, you could easily supply 13 gens

#

you dont need 3 or 4 layers

#

just try it, play a game of "connect the dots"

#

its really that simple

wind spade
#

wouldn't it be better to not mix the pipes and just use what's in each pipe? 🤔

wintry aurora
#

I didn't want to go and calculate how much I'm using out of each extrator as I use it.

wind spade
#

I'd just use one node at a time 🤷‍♂️

wintry aurora
#

Anyways, did a bit of math (based on 480/m, which also happens to be close to current usage) and I can add four more outputs of that, while the fifth output is what's left over. So, 6 total (including the existing output) @oblique hollow ?

#

Actualy, no wait, that's five total. @oblique hollow

patent briar
#

What are you pulling off these pipes? water?

wintry aurora
#

N2

patent briar
#

Are you pulling the same amount each time you pull off it?

#

Or are you doing multiple recipes that use different amounts?

wintry aurora
#

I'm not even using it halfway yet.

unknown.png
oblique hollow
#

2 pipes can pretty much transport 1200 anywhere

wintry aurora
patent briar
#

Well you do have one option if you wanna make life easier

#

Ah yeah so I was gonna say

#

if you just package the entire thing, you can fit up to 3120 nitrogen/min in a single Mk5 belt via packaged nitrogen

#

and then you can just have a single manifold

#

Only takes 9 packagers, and they are pretty small buildings

wintry aurora
#

The current one is from my production of turbmomotors (pressure alt), heat fused frame, and the cooling device (give me a min to check the alt used)

patent briar
#

Could just slap 9 packagers down or whatever at your nitrogen source and have 1 belt running to this spot

#

Or sorry I guess you want 2 belts, you want a second belt coming back you ship the empty packages back on when consumed

wintry aurora
#

I haven't firmly decided whether I want to make the packaged nitrogen facility in this area yet though.

patent briar
#

My point is you can replace that entire pipe mess with just 2 Mk5 belts in a loop

oblique hollow
wintry aurora
#

I still need to bring it to the site.

patent briar
#

Yeah, which is just a belt

#

Well, 2 belts, which is easy

wintry aurora
#

I meant the packaging location.

patent briar
#

You package it right at your nitrogen source

wintry aurora
#

And was gonna transport those by train, or maybe drone.

patent briar
#

And then you bring your packages all the way to that spot in your pic

#

and then manifold the nitrogen packages out as you need em

wintry aurora
#

I dunno yet,

patent briar
#

Nitrogen has insane density on mk5 belts, way more efficient than pipes, you can put just over 5 Mk2 pipes of nitrogen on a single belt

vast jungle
#

You just need another belt in the opposite direction to get the containers back

wintry aurora
#

I wasn't planning on piping it all the way over to where I needed it.

patent briar
#

yup, 2 belts stacked in opposite directions

wintry aurora
patent briar
#

@wintry aurora Im talking about your pipes you have in your pic

#

The whole thing

#

I would tear it all down and replace it with just 2 belts

wintry aurora
#

There's not many oil nodes decently close to oil though. Gonna take a look at the other scrap recipes.

patent briar
#

?

#

You mean for making packages?

#

You could have your package making anywhere on the return line, since you will have the return line touching everywhere the input line does

wintry aurora
#

Yea, I was gonna make them on site, I dunno.

patent briar
#

You said you need 2100 nitrogen/min right? Whats your total math on that?

#

like what all are you using nitrogen for

wintry aurora
#

Haven't gotten used to the outposting mentality maybe?

oblique hollow
#

Demand: unknown

#

Thats the point of that big pipe balancer line

patent briar
#

Or is that 2100 just how much the extractors are supplying

oblique hollow
#

Yes

patent briar
#

gotcha

wintry aurora
oblique hollow
#

Still 4 layers is too much jace_smile

#

2 is everything you need

patent briar
gloomy palm
oblique hollow
#

Well duh theres no automatic signs

gloomy palm
#

that's what i thought 😐

#

automatic signs, nice name for that

wintry aurora
#

BALEETED, lol

unknown.png
gloomy palm
#

what an atrocious looking pipe network, i love it!

wintry aurora
#

lol

gloomy palm
#

you know what they say, the worse it looks, the more efficient it is

oblique hollow
wintry aurora
#

Well, anyways, I'm just trying to figure out how to outpost things here I guess.

#

Current map

unknown.png
cinder silo
#

Uh oh, I haven't planned for nitrogen yet, I have that sinking feeling that there isn't any even remotely close to where I built my entire nuclear setup.

near zenith
#

how much do you need to get the nuclear waste dealt with?

cinder silo
#

1260 according to the plan.

visual bobcat
near zenith
#

pack it on site and ship it over imo, especially if you don't know how far it'll be

cinder silo
#

Looking at it now I might need to make the nitric acid on site and move* that*

near zenith
#

bruh... why the hell did i never think of that lol, i'm already committed to my packed nitrogen being moved, but ugh, packing the nitric would be so much simpler

#

actually, no, nvm, there's no water near my nitrogen well i think

wintry aurora
#

How would you balance these two (the right one doesn't have any current consumption) between....

unknown.png
#

These (or more) drone ports?

unknown.png
#

So that they both fill as fast as possible?

near zenith
#

chuck them both in a isc and make the output lines both 780?

wintry aurora
#

That makes more sense I suppose.

gusty lark
#

Can someone please help. This train isnt moving

Screenshot_5.png
wintry aurora
#

What error does the train give when you look at timetable?

#

Also, the error could be somewhere out of sight.

cinder silo
gusty lark
gusty lark
wintry aurora
#

Looks like you put two left hand signals down there on a right hand track.

gusty lark
#

thanks for your help

wintry aurora
#

It's easy to make that mistake on a complex junction though.

stark bronze
#

If no one has done the math yet (which is unlikely)
A wonder star is worth 150 gifts

#

Looks like my 120 gifts generator is obsolete

frosty owl
cinder silo
#

That's something I'll need to be cautious with, I don't need a repeat of my alumina production where the new in feed clogged the system

frosty owl
#

Best would be to refill both the water AMD the acid, but that's the most annoying solution

cinder silo
#

One approach since it isn't a large system would be to add a spur for a small fluid buffer, that should handle the magical fluid loss.

#

Fluid loss is only on load up though right?

frosty owl
#

Yes, but if you buffer you're just adding loads before your machines will run dry

cinder silo
#

Even without 1 small buffer, the lost fluid should be self correcting since the planned loops will be tiny.

frosty owl
#

There's no correction if you're providing as much as you're consuming. Just loss everytime you load

#

Regardless of the size of the loop 🤷‍♂️

#

That's why I think the easiest solution to have a loop never run dry (without manually refilling it somehow) is to top off the water part via a VIP

cinder silo
#

Looking at the water extractors that should be easily achievable by just having all three of them going at 100%, 315 water is called for, 360 should keep the nitric topped off without choking the sulphuric thanks to said vip

thorn bane
#

just use the water for wet concrete for encased plutonium cells

vestal bolt
#

Does anyone have a factory design for completing phase 3

vapid gorge
patent briar
#

So though the pipe tower headlift trick is sort of silly, it does encourage you to make very intricate and cool looking pipe setups.

unknown.png
vast jungle
#

Crystal Oscillators are annoying as always... I am lucky they are "done" now...

gloomy palm
#

I'm kinda thinking, is the creation of elevator parts directly corresponding to the lead up to nuclear power?

patent briar
#

@fluid mist

iz92xbojhic71.png
gloomy palm
#

you can't finish the elevator without nuclear right?

gloomy palm
vast jungle
#

If you can do a NAND or NOR gate, you are already turing complete

gloomy palm
#

nice

#

@cinder silo I just had an epic idea for a factory

#

a

#

essentially, you would have a production floor for a given part, that floor would consume all your available power, but then you'd shut down that floor and enable the next floor which would construct the next part from the parts you made from the previous floor using the same available power

#

if things are overclocked, I would imagine it would finish faster than operating half of both machines in the same available power

cinder silo
#

Consuming all my available power would be difficult, especially when my nukes online.

gloomy palm
#

let's say, 20 constructors and 20 assemblers working at 100% would finish slower than 10 constructors and 10 assemblers working at 200%?

#

or is it identical?

cinder silo
#

Should be identical, the only difference if I'm recalling correctly is the power consumption shoots up several times for that doubled production.

gloomy palm
#

so then my proposed plan is a trade-off of space to power consumption

#

err rather the other way around

#

I am proposing isolating production floors which require more power but less space

#

to achieve the same result as a larger facility which is running everything at once

#

sound like a plan? 😅

crystal charm
#

so, my mate started a new dedicated server, and cause he's new i'm not allowed to rush up to tier 8

cinder silo
#

Space isn't exactly a problem in this game, you'll crash your game long before you run out.

gloomy palm
#

a

#

well less space also means less time building

crystal charm
#

which is ok, but in the interim, i want to maximise the shit out of all nodes, so, question, 60 limestone p/m out of a normal node, am i better off leaving that in one 100% constructor, or splitting into 2

#

and let them run at like 60-70% each, keeping in mind i'm running on bio power atm

gloomy palm
#

somehow yeti's question is related to mine

cinder silo
#

Yeah, right now your target really is going to be coal to get the generators and steel for mark 3 belts, I wouldn't dare expand machines much on bio, too much babysitting and blown fuses.

crystal charm
#

i have no choice, i can't unlock tier 3 stuff, he has to

#

and i have like 10x more time to play than he does right now (new g/f for him)

cinder silo
#

Oww, best to have the factory churning construction materials in to cans that you can use at a later time, too many machines will make it a game of weed whacking just to feed the generators above all else.

crystal charm
#

right now i have like 5 generators on their own networks, which can be chaotic, so i'm thinking of moving them all to a central hub

#

it'll be easier to reload, plus i've already built a simple leaves/wood to biofuel line

vast jungle
#

with smart-splitter sorter?

crystal charm
#

hah, no

cinder silo
#

Too early in the game for smarts, he doesn't have coal even 😦

crystal charm
#

it's been a while since i massed used bio burners, but from memory, they don't really burn if they aren't needed right?

#

so i could build like, 20 of them and if i only need 5, they'll just burn 5 at a time?

vast jungle
#

Smart-Splitters only need a bit of Caterium I think 😉

crystal charm
#

that requires unlocking

#

i know where the caterium is, i know the tree in the MAM intimately to get it

vast jungle
#

but to be fair, it doesn't take that long to get to coal

crystal charm
#

tier 3

vast jungle
#

afterwards all the biomass thing only becomes necessary for the chainsaw

#

and even this is not necessary anymore once you have Nobelisk!

sturdy cipher
#

EXPLODE EVERYTHING!!!

#

I’ll be honest though why is Nobelisk more precise than the chainsaw

#

I go to cut down a small tree and it cuts down the 5 massive trees next to it. Nobelisk just gets rid of the single tree

vast jungle
#

and even better, currently you can produce Nobelisk from frozen Water... no need to look for Sulfur! 😉

sturdy cipher
#

Wait what

vast jungle
#

Don't ask me how ficsit make frozen water explode

foggy jay
#

How?

scarlet minnow
#

since when did we have frozen water in the game?

vast jungle
#

Since end of November?

scarlet minnow
#

sorry im dumb as dirt you mean snow

#

snowballs

vast jungle
#

Most useful part of the ficsmas event .. exploding snowballs

fierce ruin
vast jungle
#

As much nobelisk as you want without any resource node?

waxen hatch
vast jungle
#

To be honest, I disabled ficsmas last year

rose steeple
#

Is there a way to take two outputs from a truck station where two items come in.
Making the two items stay on separate conveyor belts, and then overflow would go into a sink?
Where it won't sink items before the conveyor belts have truly stopped?

wintry aurora
#

Use a smart splitter.

rose steeple
#

I am already doing that it's just very slow, and might even be too slow

wintry aurora
#

Actually, make two smart splitters and merge the overflows.

#

Make two separate sinks?

#

May also just need to upgrade belts.

rose steeple
#

Can't upgrade yet 😭

wintry aurora
#

‘K then.

frosty owl
#

Max unload speed of 2x max belt speed for each item, can add overflow rules either at the smart splitters dividing the items or after the ISCs

wintry aurora
#

It’s the only two input and output merger/splitter we’ve got.

rose steeple
#

For some time the whole system is totally clogged, but apparently it should be able to handle it once the station is cleared.
I only produce about 120ppm that goes into it, thankfully

frosty owl
#

There should be no clogging if you unload properly

rose steeple
#

Well yes, but then again I have a server running 24/7 most of the time.
So it filled up in no time and got clogged so I had to stop the tractor.
And I didn't consume much other than beams so it was mostly full of that.
Now I need beams so I had to restart the whole thing, but this time making sure overflow is sunk cuz steel gives tons of points 😄

fierce ruin
#

May I ask what is being made that requires the items to be separated?

#

(Ping me since I'm on my phone atm)

rose steeple
#

steel

#

steel beams and pipes

fierce ruin
#

Steel, so the station is bringing the iron and the coal?

rose steeple
#

No it's bringing the steel beams and pipes

fierce ruin
#

Which are then being used for what?

rose steeple
#

Storage

fierce ruin
#

So your storage system is clogging?

rose steeple
#

It's the old storage so yes

fierce ruin
#

Ok. Was a bit confused. Sounds like a design flaw in storage more than a truck station issue.
But it looks like you guys figured it out.

frosty owl
rose steeple
#

xD

vast jungle
#

so I added a second train stations... put a programmable splitter to each of each train stations output to sort the traffic in two groups, merged the corresponding 4 outputs and let them run on separate belts towards my storage... with a dedicated sink at each end

rose steeple
#

Yeah I plan on adding mergers every so often inside my new storage system so I can have multiple belts coming into it

vast jungle
#

just instead of doing mergers I would just keep parts of the storage systems "working belt" separated... because its difficult to merge belts AND control what gets thrown away

rose steeple
#

Not really

#

The system most people use is where you have the smart splitters setup like this:

C-+---
  |
C-+---
  |
C-+---

Where left would be the item for the container, forward would be any undefined, and right would be overflow.
That's just stupid and over complicated.
Instead I did:

C-+
  |
C-+
  |
C-+

Where left is the item just the same, and forward is overflow, any item that can't go left would then go forward 😉

frosty owl
#

If you add mergers but not sink connections, your system will become more prone to clogging again

frosty owl
rose steeple
#

That's where I'd do something like

[...]
  |
C-+--&----
     |
C-+--+---S
  |
C-+
  |
C-+
  |
C-+

In this way the last smart splitter would go left with any, and if it overflows it would just go straight into the sink.
Or alternatively you could just have setups where only n items per belt. (Which might be easier).

frosty owl
#

I think the solution with the least complicated beltwork is a factory sending a few mixed lines directly to storage, so no balancing shenanigans, just merge a few machines with the right clock

abstract talon
#

I saw a thing on the Wiki about setting up a battery type solution for hypertube cannons, so they're not constantly draining power, has anyone set one of them up successfully?

frosty owl
#

@vast jungle

vast jungle
#

yes, I do it regularly...

#

you just need one switch and one battery for each "hypertube hub"

#

connect the battery together with all hypertube entrances on one side of the switch and your "power" to the other side

#

when travelling, activate the switch for a few seconds to charge the battery, then deactivate and quickly hop into a entrance

abstract talon
#

aaaaahhh

#

yeah ok I'll try that tonight, thanks

vast jungle
#

just an advice... it works best without the Hoverpack

#

because if you wear the Hoverpack you might draw an additional 100 MW from the battery, which can decrease the time to hop into the next entrance 😉

rose steeple
#

Now it would've been cool to have proximity sensors that could active and deactivate power

wintry aurora
#

The hypertubes have proximity sensors themselves, so, in theory.....

#

Although you wouldn't want it shutting off when you're in the tube.

vast jungle
#

the other option is to allocate a few nuclear powerplants to the hypertube entrances... and skip the whole "shut them down" thing

wintry aurora
#

How the heck many hypertube entrances do you have that you need a few nuke plants to power them???

vast jungle
#

if you consider map-wide a mesh of them instead of all going to a central area, you need quite a lot 😉

wintry aurora
#

I'd get that, but I don't think they take THAT much power.

vast jungle
#

each intersection with 3-4 tubes will cost 75-100 MW...

#

I think I have nearly 30 HT-entrances... and I still occupy only a small part of the map

rose steeple
#

But those are baby numbers when considering each of my tubes will probably have 64 entrances on each side (two way)

#

Also just want to be sure, those snowballs act like nobelisks right?
I mean that's what the prompt says

#

Guys I found a way to have two way split into two separate lines at the ends 😄 (Hypertubes that is)

vast jungle
#

an exit and immediately two entrances, one a little left and one a little right?

rose steeple
# 
 | |
 E E

 E
/

Something like this

#

The exit would be in general be offset by one in the opposite direction you realistically wanna exit at.

vast jungle
#

yeah... it works, as long you angle both (upper) entrances right... (so going from top to bottom works)

rose steeple
#

No I don't think you have to angle them the same

vast jungle
#

my problem is that I normally have more like a crossroad, so I don't necessarily go to a central place

#

but if you built a really large HT hub, this could be a fun way to organize the whole network... and even have little "jump off" stations

rose steeple
#

I am going to build a large ht hub where all tubes make you travel at the max speed of roughly 1 km/s 😄

vast jungle
#

you could add an HT accelerator/cyclotron at the beginning to get up to speed ^^

#

unfortunately as soon as you have trains, HT's are kinda slow

rose steeple
#

Well I'll have 64 entrances getting me up to roughly 300'000 units/second which is equivalent to about 3 km/s but hypertubes are limited in speed to roughly 1 km/s

vast jungle
#

but this might mean you need an accelerator at every Y-crossing (you described above), which will increase power consumption even further

#

O.O

#

"Warp 5 Mr. Worf..."

rose steeple
#

Also you can slow yourself by yeeting yourself into u-jelly landing pads.
Though at 300'000 units/second you absolutely need tons of them xD

vast jungle
#

how many entrances would you use for a "flying" HT cannon?

rose steeple
#

I don't

#

I just yeet me into another hypertube

#

So much more safe

#

And can be done very early