math-and-meta

[near zenith]

never assume the user is familiar

[wind spade]

the output of the machine is either round or square 😄

[near zenith]

also, since blender can output solid, or liquid, or both, how do you know at a glance which specific things would be required by looking at your buildlist quickly

[wind spade]

I'm a bit worried about overflowing the table with information

and again, for items there will be the other view I guess

[near zenith]

icon with a square background, icon with a round background?

[wind spade]

[near zenith]

i like it more than the last view lol

[near zenith]

:chefskiss:

maybe prevent the larger numbers in the plates column from making the cable column jagged

[wind spade]

I don't think I can do better than this 😄

[near zenith]

that's a spicy meatball, a+

cept for the bluging on lines 3,4,5 from the big nums

[wind spade]

oh so you want to align the items in the detailed view

[near zenith]

yarp, sharp vertical lines of items

[wind spade]

only makes sense for the expanded ones tho

[near zenith]

truth

[near zenith]

mhmmmmm

[fringe pawn]

I would enjoy an advanced available resources option that specifies the number and purity of available nodes for each resource, so that miner power use is factored. That's been extra step that I've been having in planning my microfactories.

[wind spade]

yeah that's not so easy 😄 but it's definitely planned 🤔

expected around Q3 2025

[fringe pawn]

I don't know what wacky plans I will have by then, which will inevitably result in wacky new feature requests. 🤪

[steady lily]

i have 4 pure iron nodes with Mk 2 nodes, with the pure iron alternate recipe

[proper vigil]

quick question, so I'm trying to get coal power up and running and was just wondering if anyone can confirm if my math is correct, so the water extractors max flow rate is 600 m cubed /min and the water thats extracting is 120 cubed/min so that would mean that one water extractor can power 5 coal gens right?

[still trout]

1 mk2 water pipe is filled by 5 water extractors

[proper vigil]

its the mk1

[still trout]

2.5 extractors, and 1 pipe can fuel just under 7 coal gens

3 extractors for 8 coal gens, but you have to balance the water

[proper vigil]

ok, thanks for the help

[still trout]

i think there's a wiki page for coal gen designs

[sturdy cipher]

Hey I'm setting up my wiring for a coal generator factory which runs using its own power but I also want to have backup batteries which i can manually turn on when I want to restart the factory while also being able to charge those batteries while the factory is running. would this be possible to do. (I'll post this in #old-questions-and-help and #math-and-meta as I feel it relates to both) thanks in advance :D

[twin jacinth]

Hey. Im working on a wasteless nuclear plant where the end goal is 16 plutonium fuel rod/min. Based on my calculations, I need exactly 80 nuclear power plants for this at 100% clock speed. Im using SCIM production planner and for some reason it tells me 80.1 nuclear plants and I dont understand, why. Is this some kind of rounding error? Or am I missing something? And a 2nd question. Shall I use 80 power plants at 100% clockspeed, or 40 at 250%? What the pros and cons of each?

[oblique hollow]

80 plants because water piping

[cedar mica]

Might be able to do 40 overclocked, if you have the water extractors, right next to the plants

[river night]

Personally I would go with 80 as well as it simplifies piping and gives you some headroom to make sure water is always there, the full 600 water can cause bugs to produce water fluctuations

and since it needs 600, it also can never catch up without the plant shutting down

[twin jacinth]

yeah, I also like the 80 more.

although I wanted to bring up the water in one 600 pipes, I mean 1 pipe from 5 water extractors.

So is that 80.1 plants a rounding error?

[cedar mica]

Check the recipes and input. Its possible that you are using a little more waste then 80 can handle

Which is 800? or is it 1600?

Seems current number is 10/m. 20/m is the old number

[twin jacinth]

800 waste

It is dimensioned for 16 uranium fuelrod. It has to be then 800 waste and so exactly 80 power plants

The numbers at the top of the resource chain are nice, integers. So rounding error is quite unlikely But I have no other idea

Can I link here the production planner link?

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/production-planner/index/index/json/{"Desc_PlutoniumFuelRod_C"%3A"6"%2C"input"%3A{"Desc_AluminumIngot_C"%3A"780"%2C"Desc_Plastic_C"%3A"250"%2C"Desc_Rubber_C"%3A"500"}%2C"view"%3A"SIMPLE"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_PlutoniumFuelUnit_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_AdheredIronPlate_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_CoatedIronPlate_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_HeavyOilResidue_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureCateriumIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureCopperIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureIronIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureQuartzCrystal_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_RecycledRubber_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_SteamedCopperSheet_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_SteelCoatedPlate_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_SteelRod_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_WetConcrete_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_AlcladCasing_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_DilutedFuel_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_HeatFusedFrame_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_CircuitBoard_2_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Computer_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_CrystalOscillator_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_ModularFrameHeavy_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_IngotSteel_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_NuclearFuelRod_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Plastic_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Quickwire_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_EncasedIndustrialBeam_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Silica_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_UraniumCell_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Wire_1_C"]}

I can

hmmmm, I have an idea. So that +0.1 nuclear plant appears during the waste reprocessing phase for some reason, so the 800 waste can be processed NOT by producing 6 plutonium fuel rods, but a little bit less...? Im still checking the numbers but when I started the project, I remember for nice numbers

Nah, the numbers are nice integers there

[oblique hollow]

Calc being dumb

[frosty owl]

Plutoniun's numbers are nice. I'll check the numbers now, but I'm sure it's a rounding error already

(Though, personally, I think this kind of situation is why one should plan the factory's recipe route in their head first/in game first, for a better understanding)

[twin jacinth]

Thanks. Ive been working on this shit for 3 weeks by now and I just noticed that 0.1 so I got nervous a bit.

it was superplanned. I even drew the waste reprocessing part in draw.io

[river night]

seems rather curious that it manages to get inaccurate on that, you feed it 16 rods and get 800 waste out, how does it get to 80.1

[frosty owl]

Using the metà recipes for sinkable plutonium gives 4 plutonium rods/min for 800 waste
BTW, with this route waste actually is used in "batches" of 100/min with 100% recipes

That's Non-fissile, Plutonium pellets, Encased pellets, plutonium rods (standard)

[twin jacinth]

It was 3 weeks ago so I dont remember exactly why I chose pluto fuel unit alt, but it was thought through.

[frosty owl]

Same waste input, different rods output. Just changes the amount of manifacturers for the last processing step

The waste first goes 75/min to blenders (37.75 each) and 25/min to an accelerator for every 100 waste/min, quite the convenient start for your pluto setup

From there on it's all il intermediate products, you've already processed the waste

[twin jacinth]

I think I know. In my current session, Im going for the recipes that wiki thinks its the best. Im not following that all the time, but most of the time the winner is the same as my own personnal winner. Pluto Fuel unit alt is the winner on wiki and checking the recipies thats what I want.

[thin cliff]

How good is this?

I made this after discovering coal power, before steel

Sorry for bad handwriting

[twin jacinth]

dude, use draw.io next time 🙂

[thin cliff]

Never heard of it

[twin jacinth]

free online drawing tool, very good for satisfactory.

(jsut a side comment)

[thin cliff]

I conveniently had a ruler and my sketchbook

[frosty owl]

Use SFTools next time 😉

[hard solstice]

Might want to scavenge some drives for Cast Screws.

[surreal parrot]

some people like writing more. Would also recommend using a software tool but i can imagine people like handwriting it more

[still trout]

this is what i made

basically a 27 assembler unit for stators, the orange thing on the right is to combine the two wire conveyors evenly

this is what i like to do with planning

[twin jacinth]

It was half-joke. I also have handwritten notes.

[mental needle]

hey guys, whom I have to bribe, to allow links to my maintained satisfactory calculator? I took over a older calculater with sankey-diagrams from KirkMcDonald&Nomsplease and brought it up to date. I personally prefer it for the visuals and the easy handling with simple hide already produced items by clicking on them

[surreal parrot]

ah right, ignore me then hahah

[twin jacinth]

Well, the handwritten notes should be at least readable. I couldnt even read it. This is why I post only well-drawn diagrams instead.

[frosty owl]

Ask a mod about it

[wind spade]

you wrote stitched plates incorrectly

[wind spade]

have you also made it possible for it to use recycled loops?

[vast jungle]

I just finished my "central storage" facility and discovered a problem with the mixed-car train strategy someone suggested: even when using the "item source => item destination => central storage (generic sink)" strategy (to prevent less used item types to fill up the wagons), I quickly run into the issue that the central storage cannot handle all the incoming traffic.

In my first SF session (U3) I built an insane central storage with 12 train stations (each 4 wagons)... I hoped that the item filter for trains make such monstrosity unnecessary.

anyone an idea how to make trains with mixed content work?

[wind spade]

I usually recommend not doing mixed belts and freight cars, so I haven't thought much about how to mix stuff 🤔

[vast jungle]

the issue with not mixing trains is that the number of train stations grows like insane, especially on the "central storage"... you would need a freight station for every item type

[wind spade]

mixing trains is fine. Mixing freight cars is what I don't recommend

you only need freight platform for each resource

[vast jungle]

and you need a train station... otherwise the freight cars will be at the wrong place... unless all of your trainstations have one freight-terminal for every item type... which would make them... ... ... LONG

I somehow doesn't get to a system that is not
a) insanely huge
b) clogs up and dies a slow death 😉

[wind spade]

for storage you need 1 platform per item type. It's up to you if that means 30 stations with 1 platform each or one station with 30 platforms or anything in between

[vast jungle]

how do you make the 1 station with 30 platforms work? how can you connect them to anything else than another 20-30 platform station (unless you only want to load/unload the first few cars)?

[wind spade]

transfer stations

the main train line goes [transfer station] -> [storage]
smaller trains go [production] -> [transfer station]

can chain this multiple times

[wind spade]

red = transfer stations
blue = factories
black = miners
green = storage
pink = railways

[vast jungle]

so the red ones would be the large "all items" variants?

[wind spade]

red ones transfer from smaller to larger trains

[wind spade]

this is how inside of transfer station could look like. two small trains come and unload (top and bottom track), middle larger train carries stuff away. black are belts, arrows mean direction of resources traveling on that rail

[vast jungle]

and for a warehouse, you connect each "storage box" of the warehouse with a dedicated belt to a train station?

[wind spade]

yeah

[wind spade]

this would be how I would do storage
PL = platform
ISC = storage containers
SS = smart splitter
M = merger

SORT = container for dumping inventory to sort back to storage

[near zenith]

ngl, i love the pure sleek nature of sftools contrasted against the kindergarten lvl mspaint diagrams you're popping out right now

[wind spade]

drawing with mouse is hard 😦

[vast jungle]

I think I built something similar in my first SF session... but I really disliked how insanely huge it became... 90% train stations, 10% storage room 😉

especially getting all the belts to the "storage room" was a headache

[near zenith]

i've gravitated more toward local storage of distinct parts and massive hypercannon connections between locations

why waste 30 minutes on spaghetti when you can connect 30+ hypertube entrances and cross the map in 10 seconds

[wind spade]

is space an issue on so large map tho? 🤔

[wind spade]

yeah I dislike the cannons and won't build them in my playthrough 😄

[near zenith]

you dislike capitalization, you dislike cannons

do you just hate the letter c, what has it done to you

https://tenor.com/view/letter-c-c-monster-gif-11632779

[vast jungle]

finding a flat space that large (that isn't a large platform in the sky) is not that easy... and to be fair, the whole thing was quite ugly, especially because the storage room felt "tight"... more like a tiny tunnel than a warehouse

[near zenith]

you could make a more vertical build, like storage silos

[vast jungle]

thats why I built my new storage system different... feels more "open" and less claustrophobic now

[wind spade]

I'd probably put the train station under the storage room, that way it would be nice

[vast jungle]

I had 12 train station with 4 wagons each... not sure you can make such a monstrosity look nice ^^

[wind spade]

I don't think you need to store 48 materials 🤔

I think the number is around 30

[near zenith]

oooooooo, actually, suggestion for the item tab improvements you're making to sftools, identifying which items are required for only future recipes vs which items should be stored as building materials?

[vast jungle]

this is my current warehouse... problem at the moment is that the whole thing has only one belt input 😉
#screenshots message

[verbal seal]

Nice looking, but not as functional.

[vast jungle]

two stations were meant to be "special purpose"... one was input to the autosorter, the last one was meant to be an "automatically filled build train"... but I never finished the last.

[vast jungle]

what do you mean with "not as functional" ?

[verbal seal]

Well for items you need to fly a fair bit.

[candid tundra]

but there is a certain niceness to monstrosity though 🤔

[vast jungle]

yes, its designed with the hoverpack in mind... 😉

two floors... most of the important stuff on the ground floor (24 item types)

[verbal seal]

@vast jungle check #screenshots old pic, but storages are in the same places.

Also everything is connected with belts, auto-sorter built below.

Took me way too long. Also I got some automated inputs. Like 9 items per mk1 belt.

[vast jungle]

same for mine... the auto-sorter is on the outer edge of the building below the floor

[verbal seal]

Oh I couldn’t see any belts.

[vast jungle]

want to have a short tour? I could fire up a discord stream.

[verbal seal]

A bit more updated one in #screenshots now, just added signs as well with belts.

[verbal seal]

Not home, bad on phone.

[vast jungle]

Screenshot from behind the containers

at the moment all containers are connected to a single belt, which is a throughput issue... I am thinking about changing this by cutting the warehouse into multiple sections, which have dedicated input belts... but for this I need to get supercomputers for "progr. splitters" first ^^

[chilly bison]

Here's a station like that before I put the roof on. 3-car (Hermes) and 9-car (Hephaestus) to 12-car (Zeus).

[fierce ruin]

someone would accept to help me making a recipe choice from HD ? I hesitate 😢

[wind spade]

show choices, we'll tell you which one is useful in which situation 😉

[ashen girder]

Units it's biocoal, then we'll probably lie to you.

[fierce ruin]

🤢

[ashen girder]

See.

[fierce ruin]

Always pick biocoal first just to get it over with. 😉

[river night]

my biomass and wood containers are overflowing, i should do something with it 😄

[ashen girder]

Charcoal is good.

[fierce ruin]

Turn it into Liquid BF and store it for the day it finally becomes useful. 🙃

[ashen girder]

If you're sinking it, don't do biocoal.

It actually reduces the points..

[river night]

nah its just sits in the container for the day i need loads of chainsaw fuel or something

[ashen girder]

I keep a full can of biofuel then sink the rest.

[river night]

all connected up to make solid biofuel, if that werent also full

[fierce ruin]

This is why we all graduate to clearing trees with

[river night]

i need to add more sinks, the one i put up early has a busy belt now ... or get to alu already to upgrade its belt :p

[fierce ruin]

I have like 2 per outpost usually, even though none of them even produces enough to fill 1 belt 😂

Just to keep things flowing.

[ashen girder]

Wasteful.

[fierce ruin]

Possibly.
I will nobs worked on the random ore spikes though.
Cleaning those out is a bitch and a half..

[river night]

I was surprised nobs cleared out some random rocks that annoyed me the other day, didnt expect that

[ashen girder]

At least you can clip them now.

[fierce ruin]

It's more about the ones outside of my outposts... eyesores 😭

Hmmm

600x20:30=400

[wind spade]

oh yeah, classic 3.6 GW needed for one building

[ashen girder]

OCd accelerator? 😁

[wind spade]

no, the screenshot above

[fierce ruin]

op xD

What does happen on 100.000,000% o.o

[wind spade]

unless you have modded game, it won't work anyway

[fierce ruin]

I don't use mods

That's the funny thing

[fierce ruin]

never too late to try them

[fierce ruin]

Some day

[frosty owl]

Sounds like a bug feature I wouldn't mind having

[fierce ruin]

But it's working

Just 10sec after build it

2 way input

[swift imp]

is this the place to talk about automation/logic setups or is it mainly for recipe math?

[wind spade]

pretty much anything that involves at least a bit of math or meta can be put here

talking about setups is totally acceptable

[swift imp]

1. 2 packagers back to back can be used to throttle packaged fluids (by setting their target %) on a belt BELOW 60 per second (a mark 1 belt) for negligible power cost. no headaches with splitter math, just set the exact target per minute you want the machines to output

2. truck stations are a 20 MW cost logic gate if you belt in AND out (provide power and items will flow, attach it to a line + power switch and you can control flow at any distance)

3. I've come up with a setup that can detect overflow on a line that'll displace packaged fuel 1-to-1 that can be used to power up an isolated AWESOME sink setup only as long as is needed to sink whatever is on the line

I haven't tested it yet but i think 1 + 3 together can be used to throttle any item (not just packaged fluids) below 60 per minute

[elder parcel]

Aux I was just looking to discuss the same thing. Getting ready to start a large scale manufacturing plant, and was curious if using a BUS in the core would be the wisest solution for feeding a lot of manufacturers

[swift imp]

i can post a screenshot to help explain #3 in the other channel if there's interest

also would love to hear more uses for vanilla machines that can help expand my kit

[ashen girder]

For varying definitions of "meta". 😁

[ashen girder]

You can post screenshots in here directly, too.

[swift imp]

i have an upstream throttler (1.6 MW total, 2 packagers set to 20% each) set to 12 packaged fuel per min coming in to the fuel in line, fuel overflow goes to a fuel gen connected to main grid.
fuel output to gen goes to an isolated fuel gen attached to an array of AWESOME sinks. note that the unpackager for the fuel going here needs to stay on the main grid.
item overflow in/out is just to displace the fuel onto the output to gen line; it routes back on to the AWESOME sink line

that way those awesome sinks (30 MW!!!) are only on when they actually have things to burn

Note that the 3 splitters there are smart splitters with "any undefined" on the item overflow out, otherwise fuel goes around the loop with "overflow" going out in the other two spots

[fierce ruin]

I'm still not getting why you need a logic gate.

[swift imp]

the truck station logic gate? that's unrelated to the awesome sink setup, just a neat use of a building that can be useful to remotely control outposts

[fierce ruin]

Which need to be remotely controlled... why?

[swift imp]

dunno, but it's possible. nuclear maybe? (i'm not there yet)

[fierce ruin]

Resources are infinite and you can just sink all excess...
So I'm not seeing why you would ever need to tell an outpost to stop remotely outside of "because I can".

[swift imp]

you certainly never "need" to do pretty much anything in this channel, yeah?

[fierce ruin]

Not specific to here. People have been doing a lot of logic gate, priority merger, and belt compressor things across this Discord and reddit and it's just like... why?
Just my opinion.
If it's done for the cool factor that is one thing, but people are actively seeking mods for these functions because they feel they need them somehow and you just... don't. Not with the way this game runs.

oh, you certainly can use belt logic gate when you're not yet built sprawling factories that all scale however you need

but yeah, the cases are naturally quite limited

[swift imp]

it's kind of wild that AWESOME sinks are a constant 30 MW drain tbh

[fierce ruin]

I can think of many ways I can use one. Just no ways I would need to is the difference.

[fierce ruin]

If you're still building your power production small enough that power is even a thought in your head, yes.
They can be taxing early, but once you get to even a baseline fuel depot level they don't even register anymore tbh.

[swift imp]

i'm not sure where you got the impression that i ever said any of this was needed?

it's kind of a weird tangent to come in with

[fierce ruin]

You're thinking this is about you.
🙂

[swift imp]

you say "you" here, though i suppose it could be the general "you"

[fierce ruin]

That was pointed at you, specifically, to see if you had an answer for why in the realm of Satisfactory you would need one.
Your answer was what I agreed with in that no one needs one, it's just something that can be done.

Topic after that point was in a general sense.

[ashen girder]

I've got 4 of them running for no reason in my central storage..

It was originally to process two ISCs faster..

[fierce ruin]

Yes but you also think biocoal is useful so your opinion doesn't matter.

[ashen girder]

But now they just do nothing. 😂

[ashen girder]

I do not! I just don't think it's useless. 😁

[fierce ruin]

[swift imp]

whispers 120 MW..... 😆

[ashen girder]

That's.. what.. one impure geothermal running at minimum?

[swift imp]

my production lines are garbage in comparison but it's probably obvious by now that i like to optimize power usage

[ashen girder]

Not even one fuel gen? Are those 150?

[swift imp]

yep, 150 MW per fuel gen

before i came up with my above solution every time i looked at my fuel gen array the thought of "one of those is basically useless" would keep creeping in

[fierce ruin]

2 overclocked BioBurners.

[surreal dune]

even thougha 250% mk3 pure node can go up to 1200/min, it's still limited to 780/min by the mk5 belt correct?

[near zenith]

yes

[surreal dune]

👌

[wintry aurora]

@wind spade Why is this one showing 19.99999999 (I don't even know how far that decimal goes) for the 20 steel pipe output part? Dunno if that's a bug or some weird rounding error. It's not critical, was just wondering what's up with that.

[wind spade]

maybe would help if you shared what you mean by "this one" 😛

[wintry aurora]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=Hne4fvPdxSvG1KFBRWOB derrrrp. I had it copied but failed to link it, lol XD

Sorry @wind spade ^

[ashen girder]

Because floating point is stupid probably..

[wind spade]

most likely floating point error. Computers are derpy when it comes to floats

[near zenith]

when in doubt blame ieee 754

[ashen girder]

When it comes to unrepresentable numbers. 😉

[wind spade]

machine numbers should be as close as possible to reality. The numbers on arrows are calculated later and therefore very slight inaccuracies are possible

[fierce ruin]

Stop putting electronics in water.
Computers don't float.

[wintry aurora]

Allright then.

Makes sense I guess as it'ls looking like .9999999^10^10^e10 or some crazy huge number.

[wind spade]

the number has to travel through 4 different languages/software, so it can happen. I've put a lof of effort into minimising these issues where possible, but in the end even one language can cause this to happen, so I'm actually surprised how not often this happens lol

[fierce ruin]

Why can't we all just speak the same language?

I hear Latin is good...

😉

[wintry aurora]

lol sev XD

[thorn bane]

are you rounding the numbers or truncating to 3 digits? cause if its a small difference rounding it might fix this issue

[wintry aurora]

He's truncating to 4 digits, a googol length of decimals is helpful to noone, unless you're trying to calculate Pi.

Or doing some extremely precise measurements or something.

[wind spade]

I'm not. The linear programming solver that is the first to generate the number only outputs numbers with three or four decimal digit precision (I tried really hard to tell it to output more, but unsuccessfully). So the imprecision is there from start.

I even use some code to try to detect periods and introduce more precision back into the number.

[wintry aurora]

@ reaction maybe I'm just completely missing what you meant.

[thorn bane]

ah i see

[wintry aurora]

Well, it doesn't have to be super, super precise.

[thorn bane]

round(a * 1000)/1000 is what i meant to round to 3 digits but this is getting ogftopic

[wintry aurora]

Math is still ontopic.

[swift imp]

i just double checked in game with a bio burner hooked up to an AWESOME sink and it must have been a bug that i ran into that i've been operating off of this entire time because it turns out the sinks do idle properly (at 0.1 MW)

not sure if it was some issue that got patched or some more vague host/client issue when looking at power poles but i'm like 99% sure i saw it consuming a full 30 MW with nothing going into it before

[wind spade]

I'll check this later to see if it's something I can deal with. But most likely won't be able to

[ashen girder]

Phew. 😁

[fierce ruin]

Can always just look at them too.
After a while of not being fed anything they stop rolling and "unclench" back to their standby animation.

[swift imp]

that was what i'd thought at first, but when i checked to be sure a while ago i must have run into some latency issues (i'm always the client on a friend's world)

while it seemed weird i just went forward with that in mind and didn't question it again until just now

[fierce ruin]

I don't think I will ever trust another person enough to do multiplayer.

Also the answer to that and other issues is simple:

Multiplayer Broken. Plz Fix.

[mystic verge]

hey is it a bad idea to chain these? it seems like the one on the end is getting like 1/16th the fill rate of the first one

[ashen girder]

I'm not sure it's really a good idea. 😂

[mystic verge]

is there some sort of bottleneck im not seeing? the same concept works just fine with containers and belts

[ashen girder]

I think it's related to how they interact with headlift.

[mystic verge]

i have three MK 2 pump thingies below

[ashen girder]

They have dynamic headlift but don't start producing it until they reach a certain fill percent.

Look up the fluid guide on the wiki. It explains the nuances around them

[mystic verge]

so basically its not a problem unless they're empty?

[ashen girder]

Basically? But there also isn't really a reason to store that much fluid.

[mystic verge]

ok so two tanks should be more than plenty for a large factory then

before i go expanding the design i wanted to make sure it has as few bottlenecks as possible

[fierce ruin]

@mystic verge they don't flow properly until they are filled above their intake line either.

[mystic verge]

ahhhh i seee

will this become a non issue over time as they fill up?

[fierce ruin]

Also there is almost no reason to store fluid at all.
And much less in that quantity.

[mystic verge]

or should i redsign

me like big factory

[fierce ruin]

So?

[sand epoch]

U need like 24m headlift to fill 1 tank.

[thorn bane]

yes
normal needs 75m³ industrial needs 300m³

[ashen girder]

Sounds like an echo. 😂

[fierce ruin]

Why would you need to store fluid for a big factory?

[mystic verge]

im planning my first megafactory and wanna have sufficent fluid supply for all future production

i figured a large buffer would be the best solution

[sand epoch]

For what?

[mystic verge]

listen, BIG FACTORY

[ashen girder]

Thing is, just because you can supply it for some time, it'll eventually just run out if you don't have enough production.

[sand epoch]

I have several big ones... none need tanks

[thorn bane]

big factory means big items/min not big amount of buffers
aslong as the items/min or fluid/min matches you dont need buffers at all

[ashen girder]

Buffers are only really useful for storing large fluctuations.

[mystic verge]

im not super great at min/maxing so im trying to insulate myself in the event of a supply chain issue

[sand epoch]

Like tf power

[mystic verge]

but what im hearing is i dont need so many tanks

[ashen girder]

Insulation just means it takes longer to notice.

[sand epoch]

Very little need fluids other than water... and why would you store water?

But if you really want to store liquids.. pack them, dont use tanks

[thorn bane]

i can kinda see it with aluminum when you dont trust your recycling 🤷

[ashen girder]

That's just one buffer though.

[sand epoch]

Its doable without worring about combo sources... either close loop them.. or sink it.

[mystic verge]

i really dont wanna setup a new production line to produce the packages

but i have gained the knowledge i came for

thank you math nerds

[sand epoch]

He says when talking about doing a BIG FACTORY.. :/

[mystic verge]

my current oil production is bad

and weak

it needs to be completely redone

dont wanna

i will eventually tho

[sand epoch]

So just make a new one and leave the old as-is

Lots of oil sources to play with

[mystic verge]

first goal is green nuclear power because my power budget is bad

like super bad

[fierce ruin]

This sounds like you should get better at min/maxing before doing a BIG factory...

[sand epoch]

A nice 300 gen TF setup will cover you to get nuc running.. esp when you add in the waste factor

[sand epoch]

Or use tools site :)

[fierce ruin]

🤫

[mystic verge]

its bad

[sand epoch]

That just coal? o0

[mystic verge]

i have a couple fuel generators too

[sand epoch]

Fuel... but not tf?

[mystic verge]

no not yet

[fierce ruin]

Geothermal gives you an additional 4.5 GW for free 🙃

[mystic verge]

as i said my oil isnt that reliable

[sand epoch]

If you can plan around the dang wave

[mystic verge]

and i have lots of geothermal

[fierce ruin]

4.5 is the average of said wave.

[sand epoch]

Ah

[mystic verge]

not all of it but lots

[fierce ruin]

#BiomassTillNuclear.

[sand epoch]

Ew..lol

[thorn bane]

#8-32coal50-250fuelTillNuclear

[fierce ruin]

Think about it though.
Biomass T1-2.
Biocoal T3-4.
Liquid BF T5-6.
Nuclear.

[sand epoch]

I had about 700 tf gen b4 i finally did nuc.. o0

[near zenith]

this is the most cursed message i've ever seen here

[sand epoch]

Indeed. Liquid ? Ugh. Shudder

[fierce ruin]

Max Screws is 1.9 million parts per minute.
Enjoy the framerate.

[near zenith]

that's just a good fact to know, not cursed at all

but... liquid bf?! have you no shame

[fierce ruin]

I'd rather deal in liquid bf than screws tbh.

[sand epoch]

Ugh.

[fierce ruin]

Caterium Screws when? 😉

[thorn bane]

real pioneers package the liquid biofuel and burn it in the biomass burner

[near zenith]

depleted uranium screws, make your recipes glow

[sand epoch]

Worst ive had was a 5k/m q wire..

[thorn bane]

burn right through the plastic aswell btw 🙂

[fierce ruin]

My circuit board outpost will be rolling over 10k QW..

[sand epoch]

... why would u need so msny boards o0

[fierce ruin]

For Computers of course.

[near zenith]

reasonable

not insane at all

[sand epoch]

... so ur just making massive #s.. for fun?

[fierce ruin]

Which are needed for RCUs..
Which are needed for Supers..

So it adds up quickly.

[near zenith]

petition to rename the maximize option on sftools to "for the Lulz"

[fierce ruin]

Goal is 1 stack per minute of each item worth storing.

[sand epoch]

1 stack? O0

[fierce ruin]

Cleaning up by rule of 45 though.

[thorn bane]

#ElevatorPartsHaveFeelingsToo

[fierce ruin]

So 45/90/180 is the production rate of most things.

Example:
45 PCCs means I need 90 FMFs means my HMF outpost is doing 135.

[sand epoch]

I did a factory of 1ppm of everything.. and that was a pest.. but 50-200 of everything.. ugh

[fierce ruin]

Outpost Zero was completed today.
It's the only one making more than 3 items because I can't justify something like an entire outpost dedicated to Iron Plates...

So it makes Plates, Rods, Cable, Wire, and CSheets at 180, RIPs, Rotors, and AILs at 90, and Frames at 45.

Next one is Steel, which will make Beams and Pipes at 180, with EIBs at 90.

After that I get into the ones that will be shipping to other outposts. Like CBs and Stators, which will produce multiple hundreds so they can feed higher tiered outposts and also store their stack per minute.

Did a reddit with screenshots of Outpost Zero if you're curious.
Mixed belts OP.

[cinder silo]

I'm laying down my fused quickwire station, I'm not overly charmed that the divisor by 4 gets me 7.675 machines per, I guess i'll have one machine going at 68% since 67.5 really isn't much of a thing.

[fierce ruin]

All 8 machines at 95.9375% falls within the decimal cap.

[cinder silo]

Oh wait, 67.5 can work, I'm really not used to typing percentages in to clocks.

[fierce ruin]

% is the only thing that matters, so it is a good thing to get used to.

[cinder silo]

I have a load more machines to place still 😄

But yeah I'll be typing in percentages from here on.

[thorn bane]

friendly reminder that you can just leave them at 100% and it still works 🙂
the only thing you save is very little power

[cinder silo]

True, though the copper going in to fused quickwire will be coming from the same source as what's feeding sheet & wire production, I'm aiming to have the percentages dialed in so one plant doesn't take from another.

[fierce ruin]

Change your name to | Yellow Light Motherfucker.

[thorn bane]

if youre using 100% of the fused quickwire and not more it will simply back up and get added to the copper sheet/wire production
(just like a manifold that overflows once the first machine is full)

[cinder silo]

3358 copper going in to the whole thing, that's going to take some serious importing 😄

[thorn bane]

i mean if youre limiting the amount of copper coming in anyway it will also work with 100% clock speed since it just wont run 100% of the time (the last one will run only 67.5% of the time)

[cinder silo]

The first machine per row (4 of) will be running at 67.5, , 30.7 assemblers at full clocks and I don't like uneven amounts of machines.

[mental needle]

yes, I have implemented that as well

[hasty tree]

damn that paintjob is very sex

[gloomy palm]

yes 😍

[wind spade]

Interesting, how did you manage that?

[near zenith]

oh, greeny, quick question, how difficult would it be to add in modded production buildings and recipes into your database for use in planning? i'm thinking something like you supply a link and it parses the available recipes and adds them to the possible recipe lists, but not on a permanent basis

no idea on how the info would be organized, or if sml mods have any type of data standardization though

[wind spade]

It's planned, but not a priority

[fierce ruin]

Can I pay greeny to never add that? 😉

[near zenith]

your singluar hatred of mods is noted

re: sev

[fierce ruin]

Aye.

[near zenith]

cause i'm defo being spoiled by sftools, and i was thinking about starting a modded playthrough at some point, and wanted to continue having you do all my math for me 🙂

[wind spade]

Wouldn't be that hard, modding community apparently already has a lot of tools to make the job easier

[fierce ruin]

Wouldn't be that hard to pay you? 🎂

[near zenith]

sev bout to start a patreon to make greeny never look at sml

[fierce ruin]

OnlyFans would be easier I think 😉

[near zenith]

some of those graphs do be sexy

[fierce ruin]

Selling feet pics to keep tools specific to the dev's vision of the game. 🙃

Greeny takes the money, then starts a bidding way between me and the modding community for whether he adds it or not.

😂

[near zenith]

rofl

well, should you ever get around to that part of your todo list, it would be appreciated. Good thing is the more you delay, the more reason i have to not start a new world from scratch and lose another 200+ hours of my life to this godforsaken timesink of fun

[wind spade]

I have patreon and paypal on the site

[fierce ruin]

Yes but how much to make you not add mod support? 😏

[wind spade]

how much do you have?

Jk lol. Is mod support a big deal if it would be optional?

[fierce ruin]

So you're saying there's a chance.

[mental needle]

what exactly do you mean? how to get a solution when circular dependencies occur? or how to visualize it with sankey?

[wind spade]

How do you make it use multiple recipes for same item. Iirc it had a limitation that each item could only have one recipe

[wind spade]

Maybe you missed question above - what's the deal about it if it's optional for the user? Or is it just out of principe?

[fierce ruin]

Principle.

You'd be hard pressed to find a part of my IRL that isn't based on the principle of a matter.

[ashen girder]

Sev only hates three things: mods, FICSMAS (fun) and lizard doggos.

[fierce ruin]

I don't hate FICSMAS.

[mental needle]

Oh, well - no, I still only use one main recipe per item, but other recipes are allowed to have side products, which then technically reduces the requirements of the main recipe

[frosty owl]

OnlyMaths

[fierce ruin]

Yes.

Graphic content warning.

[wind spade]

Ah, alright. I probably worded it wrong, but I was basically asking for the most efficient rubber factory which uses recycled loop and residual rubber

[mental needle]

Okay, you mean like the 3rd option of this picture? https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/satisfactory_gamepedia_en/images/b/b3/Rubber_alts.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/873?cb=20210620093651
yes, this would require to have mixture both recipes of rubber. at the moment this is not possible in my solution

[vast jungle]

the "end goal" for both rubber and plastic production is 1 oil to 3 rubber or 3 plastic

[wind spade]

yeah, exactly. I was just wondering how did you manage to do that, as I know the original author of the calculator and I know he had issues with this as well, due to the "one recipe per item" limitation.

[mental needle]

I have to think about that specific problem in detail. As I've changed the solver significantly, I think technically this problem could be solved, but yet the UI does not allow multiple recipes per item

[wind spade]

yeah, that's why I don't do "pick a recipe" but "allow a recipe to be used" in my tools 😉

[mental needle]

but how do you handle equivalent recipes then? assuming you do not have a higher goal like minimizing input or minimizing power

[wind spade]

minimising raw resources

in the future planned to be able to switch between optimisation for power/resources and maybe machine count

[wintry aurora]

@wind spade greeny, would it be possible to make the browser save the locations of the boxes where you move them?

[wind spade]

planned for the future 🙂

[wintry aurora]

Okay cool.

[wind spade]

I need to first do some changes on how the data is saved and loaded tho, technical stuff

[wintry aurora]

Mainly wondering as I have this large complicated one, about half is being used to account for things in the area that I'm renovating that might be connected to the part I'm not.

So, it's not that bad.

[frosty owl]

@weary ravine can you consider adding @fierce ruin's guide on signals (https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/qgy9z0/signal_logic_rules/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) in the pinned links?
It can be a convenient post to reference when explaining/discussing signals ^^

[mental needle]

okay, I've thought about that as well, but I've not even started that yet.
In your implementation is the resource which should be minimized selectable?

[wind spade]

resources are weighted based on their amount on the map ([amount of total resources] / [amount of given resource] = [weight])

the weights will also be configurable in the future

[mental needle]

okay, cool. do you have a good algorithm to find the optimal solution, or do you simply brute force all permutations on allowed recipes and show then the one with the minimal resource requirements?

[wind spade]

linear programming

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_programming

bruteforcing advanced materials would take like 10^10 years

also, it's usually not possible to test all possibilities since there's infinite number of them 😛

(e.g. if you have two recipes making one item, you can do recipe A, recipe B, or any ratio between them)

[mental needle]

good hint, thank you

[mental needle]

well, if you only think about the resources usually one recipe is more efficient than the other and you never should have to mix those recipes (unless you have something like the rubber question)

[wind spade]

yeah that's all cool for one target product, but when you have multiple target products, you may need to take less efficient recipes, which use different materials so that you can produce your goals

[mental needle]

but by using linear programming, shouldn't it be possible to solve the rubber question?

[wind spade]

yeah, my tools are based on a linear programming solver

also with things like maximising production of a resource, you can't just "use the best recipes"

[mental needle]

probably you're right, if you take such rubber constellations into account

[cinder silo]

I so bookmarked that!

[gloomy palm]

the proportion of problems players have had in satisfactory has now been overshadowed by problems relating to train signals

[cinder silo]

I really will mess with trains in the future, It is going to take a new save I think to shake off my extended belt habit.

[gloomy palm]

hmm

[cinder silo]

The space needed for stators alone, nukes are so taking it out of me 😛

[gloomy palm]

😮

[cinder silo]

Here's my current progress with the build.

[gloomy palm]

😮 o

so neat

[cinder silo]

I still need to build a copper ingot plant & my foundry 🙂

[gloomy palm]

.-. so epic

[cinder silo]

A lot of my older factories, especially in the main base have many unneeded industrial cans because of a mindset that was, well incorrect, smelters feeding to cans, cans feeding to assemblers, then going to cans and what not, so much modernisation in my future 😄

[wintry aurora]

Question on the belt bug with MK5, short distance areas like say, within this area would be fine right and the bug wouldn't show up? Not sure when exactly I should start worrying about it. The 754 wire is going to be split up pretty quick anyway. (wire setup is where that string of constructors is, just isn't finished yet)

[wind spade]

mk5 belts lose max throughput over segments

there's not an easy way to tell how much, it depends on pc, but usually one or two segments are pretty much 780

I think 750 is pretty safe even for longer distances

[wintry aurora]

Yea well, I'm sure you can guessimate how many segments a 34 constructor bank would be using with the manifolds and all.

[river night]

you already left yourself some room with only using 754 so it should be fine

[wind spade]

well you only care about the segments with throughput close to 780

[wintry aurora]

I haven't decided how I'm going to manage output yet though.

[wintry aurora]

I see, ok.

[wind spade]

because you don't lose throughput you lose max throughput

if you have 360/min on mk5, it won't go under 360 even if it goes across whole map

imagine it as if the belt was slowing down with each segment

780 -> 778 -> 777 -> 774
it really depends on pc and other stuff how much it slows down though

and also it's mostly relevant for 780-750 ish

under that it's usually able to keep the speed

[wintry aurora]

I see, only really matters when close to the limit.

[reef belfry]

MK2 pipes seem to be fixed, can anyone confirm?

[versed violet]

I get a feeling that path signals make driving manually impossible (dangerous). Is that correct?

[wind spade]

I think signals don't really take manual driving into account

[versed violet]

block signals do.

Path signals will never turn green for you, because you cannot reserve a path manually.
So you have to run in on red, and hope no other train has entered that section of track yet.

Actaully, it would be nice if path signals turned green for player driven trains, if there is nothing else in that whole block.

[wind spade]

what I mean is that signals don't care about where you can drive manually. They just care about where the train is

[versed violet]

yes, but block signals 'work' for showing you the way, and they react when you drive your train into block.

[ashen girder]

You're correct as far as I can tell.

The hard part is we don't have any kind of UI for telling signals where we're going, so reserving wouldn't really work.

[versed violet]

It wouldn't be feasible to manually reserve tracks.
But if path signals would default to green and only go red when there is a train with reserved path inside, that would work for manual drive

Or if they 'detected' manual train and reserved whole block on approach

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that'd probably work.

[frosty owl]

Right, the best they could do would be (eg) adding a light to the path signal that works kinda like a block signal but only visually for manual drive...
But that would work as a BLOCK, as it can't tell which path you'll manually take

[shadow prairie]

@versed violet - You can send Questions, Feedback, Suggestions, and Bug Reports at https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/ - <3 @ashen girder

Dec 4, 2021, 6:16 PM

[versed violet]

Could just make the path signal behave like block if you drive manual

[frosty owl]

Yeah... Very cumbersome for your traffic, but at least it would prevent collisions as long as you don't pass while the light is red

[ashen girder]

I routinely just slam into other trains.

[gloomy palm]

a good way to help them speed along more

[cedar mica]

How does pipes, handle "over merging"? 3 buffers feed by 300 pipes, merged into 1 600 pipe

[versed violet]

We need more sign sizes. 2x2 is too small and 4x8 is too big for roadside signs.
4x4 would be good. And 4x2. And 8x2.

[gloomy palm]

in regular signmaking, the sign is comprised of smaller panels that can be customized in shape by adding or subtracting panels, the panels are then interconnected

[fierce ruin]

the "Mass" of that hurts me...

[gloomy palm]

essentially what im saying is that all you need is one type of sign panel and you just add on to it into any shape you like

[fierce ruin]

4x4 sign is just using multiple 2x2s though.

[versed violet]

yes, but for usability, I'd rather not make an image of individual pixels.

[gloomy palm]

customizability is at the cost of convenience

if you want more sign sizes, it is easier to add sign sub-panel sizes instead

[versed violet]

Tiling signs does not allow to have a nice text. Mine is 2x3 matrix, of which one contains 'ass'.

[gloomy palm]

Fix M' ass

[wind spade]

make pixel art, each sign is just 1x1 pixel, that way you can write anything you want on signs, no downsides

[gloomy palm]

excatly

in a game called Occupy White Walls, the mosaics/light panels are smaller panels which can tile together (screenshot not mine)

they are set up in a pixel art sort of interface

like this

here are the standard sizes

the light panels are called bulb mosaics, but the tile mosaics also come in the same standard sizes

and there's one called a LED mosaic

so it would be cool if signs in SF could be tiled and be tied together to display the same image across all the interconnected panels

instead of needing a sign of every possible combination of sizes

[versed violet]

you don't need a sign in all possible sizes. Just the missing 4m size

[gloomy palm]

it's missing right now

but think of the future

think of the children

[runic radish]

will they light the way?

[gloomy palm]

it's a sign!

[versed violet]

Of course, we should have a customizable signs with freely adjustable size, font and alignment.

[gloomy palm]

dynamically updating content also!!

imagine not needing to open a container to know what's happening inside it

your sign could be showing you a live feed of the inside of the container, and this is what you'd see:

#satisfactory-memes message

[sand epoch]

But why?

[versed violet]

is there any place to report texture errors? Looks object is missing here

[sand epoch]

Same as all other errors

[gloomy palm]

you could have a sign that says how many items per minute are entering, and the total amount and type of the items, just walk past to see the status of the container without needing to open it, sounds reasonable

[sand epoch]

Just flash dismantle over it :/

[gloomy palm]

:/

yes but signs

[sand epoch]

For things that dont need them. Pass

[frosty owl]

That makes me think maybe I should really let my nuclear train have its own dedicated rail
Don't want any hiccups with those deliveries

[ashen girder]

Eh, as long as you let the automation do its thing and your signals are good, you're fine.

I often build a train, give it a destination and set it to run then alt+tab while it goes.

[gloomy palm]

technically speaking, signals aren't for increasing traffic flow rate, but rather, increasing traffic capacity

if speed is what you need, a dedicated rail is how you'll succeed

™️

[ashen girder]

Technically speaking, signals are for ensuring your trains don't attempt to coexist violently.

[cinder silo]

That violent coexistence looks cool though 🙂

[ashen girder]

No argument from me there!

[analog light]

Yeah on QA website. Tech a screenshot of the textue bug and the mão to see where you are.

[gloomy palm]

i seem to coexist violently with this discord server

honestly i'm a nice guy 😐

at least that's what my mother says

[wind spade]

honestly you're a bit spam-y guy 🤔

[gloomy palm]

i just have a lot of love to share with the world 😐

jthespammy 😔

😭

[wind spade]

then do it in #off-topic-general if it's not related to channel topic 🤷‍♂️

[gloomy palm]

okay one last emoji

😭

i think zyranex doesn't likes me

[thorn bane]

ah what a nice "math and meta statmement" love it

[wind spade]

no, we all would just like a nice clean chat

[gloomy palm]

🥺 im sorry

i generally can't return to a channel to start a new topic, if the last person who posted there was me.. it causes two separate threads to appear back to back which i try to avoid happening i hope that's something which could be appreciated.. it helps keep contiguous messages i post to all be about to the same thing.. if someone else sends a message to help break up my messages then i feel more comfortable to send a new message about something else

[random kindle]

is the final space elevator req an afk simulator?

[cedar mica]

I assume its straight forward, but 3x 300 pipes into buffers, that is merged at the other end. Does the 600 pipe handle it, without weirdness? The goal is to make it last longer, if there is an issue.

[random kindle]

@cedar mica the machines that produces the liquids will overflow but the end pipe will be 600/m

[cedar mica]

Given there is drones involved, there will be overflow/not enough, somewhere in the system, till everything is ironed out. Hence the reason I dont want water for the nuclear reactors, to be one of the issues

[thorn bane]

its just like any other milestone
it just need a bit (50x) more resources
you can also finish the first few milestones by waiting 🤷

[ashen girder]

Really, tho, it's intentionally a little ridiculous because it's the end of the game. 😂

[gloomy palm]

makes sense

[languid mulch]

What would be the most 'efficient' use of Screws? Since a lot of the items screws are used for, like heavy modular frames and computers, actually are best made with alternate recipes that ditch screws altogether.

[ashen girder]

Not using them.

[cinder silo]

I was very happy to use caterium computer just for the abandonment of a lot of screws

[thorn bane]

copper rotors

[languid mulch]

ty

[river night]

i feel like that question is a bit backwards, you should make screws when you need them, not make screws hoping to find a use for them

[wind spade]

this ^ but if you're looking for resource efficiency, then you only should do steel screws -> copper rotors

(or steel rod -> normal screws)

[ashen girder]

Steel rotors, you mean. 😁

[wind spade]

steel rotors don't use screws 🤔

if you already have screws, then it's more efficient to use them for something rather than ignoring them and picking worst resource efficient rotor recipe 😛

[thorn bane]

hm if you consider screws free isnt flexible frames pretty good?

[wind spade]

it's more resource efficient than default. You use more coal and limestone for encased, though also half the iron and no oil

encased also saves a lot of power and space

[ashen girder]

If you're even using coal to begin with. 😂

My next build uses neither iron ingots nor coal. 💪

[thorn bane]

well im guessing you dont have 1845 screws/min lying around
but if you had xD

[wind spade]

oh the pain

1845 screws for 5 HMFs is... a lot

[cinder silo]

The trouble with screws is they're still limited to 780 like everything else, but you end up using a hell of a lot in some recipes so you get belt spaghetti if you're mass producing.

[wind spade]

500 screws for 5 HMFs with normal recipe lol

[wind spade]

nah, you produce screws on demand 1:1

the main issue with screws is that there are way better recipes that don't use screws (except for rotors, copper rotor shines)

[thorn bane]

ok i kinda wanna build that

[cinder silo]

I'm just too used to having mass production in a few locations, having constructors making screws everywhere would add an annoying tumor to plants that use them , thankfully alts are cutting those down 🙂

[wind spade]

but instead of carrying 100s of screws, you carry like 5 steel beams 🤷‍♂️

[ashen girder]

Pipes tho.

[wind spade]

don't think you can make screws out of pipes

[ashen girder]

You can replace screws with pipes!

[wind spade]

screws, wire and quickwire are items that you don't really want to massproduce centrally, you always want to make them onsite and 1:1

[ashen girder]

No screws, more pipes!

[wind spade]

you can't for copper rotor 😛

[ashen girder]

That's a silly statement and I won't stand for it.

[cinder silo]

I get the concept, It makes it easy to belt the mats for screws np, hell even via sushi, I just dislike having such a distributed assembly because I lose track so easilly.

[wind spade]

it's imo better way to build. I just have one factory that makes everything from raw ores and it saves me all the transporting anyway

[odd dawn]

What's the best area for steel production? Like maxing steel

[thorn bane]

ive been thinking about that alot (cause factorio) the issue i have is that the ratios are pretty horrible most of the time
an ai limiter needs 100 quickwire/min but an assembler makes 90
so if you bring copper and caterium to the computer factory youd have to balance it somehow
but the lower number what that fits exactly is 900 which doesnt fit on a belt (lcm(100,90)) so you cant really have fused quickwire to ai limiter ratio
i also dont like that building the quickwire for each factory would increase the length of my bus because instead of building 1 row for quickwire i now build 3
but im not sure yet if therees a way to make this work out
you could ofcourse underclock the ai limiters to only take 90/min but i feel like that would increase the are of the factory more than i like it

[wind spade]

underclocking 😉

oh nvm didn't read it to the end

[thorn bane]

but then youre buildign 10% more buildings 😦

[wind spade]

you can also overclock the quickwire to 100

[thorn bane]

dont have the power shards for that

[wind spade]

10% more buildings but saving power 🤔

[thorn bane]

caterium computer actually kinda works out with 105 * 6=630=7 * 90 so i might do that

[thorn bane]

power is not an issue once you have 40 nuclear power plants xD

[ashen girder]

@fierce ruin has thoughts on this.

Somethingsomething 45 and 81.

[thorn bane]

well im not gonna change how many computers i produce since i dont want to overproduce (cause more buildings = more lag)

[fierce ruin]

90 is a multiple of 45 so I don't see an issue 🤷‍♂️

[ashen girder]

No issue, just know you've done lots of math around your magic ratios.

[thorn bane]

is there like a list of what you guys would bundle together? so far ive had a line for each building expect copper rotors where i make the steel screws inline
i honestly never considered making bigger lines until i played factorio xD

[ashen girder]

I colocate pretty much everything.

[wind spade]

everything making one product in one factory

[thorn bane]

i just feel like its not worth unless its really simple to expand

[wind spade]

make small modular build and copy it if you want to expand

[thorn bane]

that takes way more time than expanding 2 lines of manifolds though

[wind spade]

not really, you build roughly same amount of belts and same amount of machines

[thorn bane]

ye i know the resources are the same but its still alot faster to build all the buildings in a line

the only issue if it makes you need more belts on the bus (like screws, wire or quickwire)

[wind spade]

no bus plz

top = expanding manifold
bottom = copying elsewhere

yeah it may be slightly more belts, but you don't have to worry about anything like belt throughput

[thorn bane]

sorry i meant something more like left side vs right side

[wind spade]

yeah that's pretty much the same just rotated 90 degrees

[ashen girder]

Greeny:

[thorn bane]

but the iron plates/wire go directly into the stiched rip
they dont get merged/split with anything else

they are balanced and not manifolded

[wind spade]

well yeah but my point is that either you add more machines (expand up on your image), or copy the whole setup. You can use either variant from your screenshot in modular factories

[frosty owl]

I think in some cases your build approach could still make use of 1:1 feeds
Eg: with steel screws going 1:1 to bolted plates, you just have 2 "mass production lines" each with its own input belt (one with steel beams, the other with iron plates) connected by some belts (the screws) ^^

[cinder silo]

I'll definitely give it some thought, smaller numbers of items going through beltways allows for greater density at the target so I definitely see the appeal, It gives me another approach should I find myself in a pinch 🙂

[thorn bane]

thats what i did with my uranium cells into rods aswell since its 1 to 1
its just hard to get a nice ratio like that

[cinder silo]

The uranium ore itself I just ran belts, the impure divides between the three normals getting 700 per belt from three overclocked miner mk3's

[frosty owl]

Since you have a bus, why not make good use of it and load any excess on it for other production lines /storage /sink?

[cinder silo]

It let me put my cell production at a place of my choosing instead of trying to process on site.

[wind spade]

also just to clarify by 1:1 I actually mean 1:n or n:1 depending on how many the target and source buildings produce (with some smart underclocking). Doesn't always have to be 1:1 exactly

[cinder silo]

Underclocking has been a very handy tool for me to balance things 🙂

[thorn bane]

i just dont like the idea of building more machines than i have to

[frosty owl]

It's not like you lack the power. But if you lack the shards and don't won't to downclock , there are very few ratios you can get without overflow

[wind spade]

space is pretty much infinite and you actually use less power (since they are underclocked)

[thorn bane]

fps isnt

[cinder silo]

In some cases it helps, especially when your numbers call for 37.1 machines worth of output, having two running at 55% is more logical than one going at 10% to pick up the slack, and I really don't like uneven lines.

[wind spade]

then overclock 😛

[thorn bane]

i dont have power shards

[wind spade]

also, are you hitting fps issues already? 🤔

[thorn bane]

well you can always overclock it to match the input of the next machine
you might have to use 2/3 machines though

[wind spade]

I'm not really sure if 5 machines extra in 100 machine build would make that much difference

[thorn bane]

i stopped playing after experimental cause i had constant 20 fps in a fresh U5 playthrough

[frosty owl]

@thorn bane ^^

[cinder silo]

True in some cases, smart underclocking makes life a little easier and uses 0 power shards.

[wind spade]

that sounds like time to get a nice new christmas present (new pc)

also if you really want, get a few doggos and farm some shards 😛

[thorn bane]

new world but its a work in progress 🙂

[pastel oxide]

anyone know the maximum uranium Fuel rods per minute that can be produced while having exactly enough uranium left over to process it into plutonium?

[thorn bane]

im just wonder if stuff like 7 fused wire for 6 caterium computer is worth it and then repeat the pattern

[wind spade]

I think it was like 50.4 uranium fuel rods 🤔

but no idea 😄

[thorn bane]

processing uranium wast doesnt take any uranuim if you dont use the fertile uranium recipe (which you shouldnt)
if you sink it its 50.4 Urods -> 12.6 Prods

[wind spade]

wow I remembered it correctly lol

[pastel oxide]

thanks

[wind spade]

also I assume this was supposed to read "if you don't sink it"?

[cinder silo]

That's way more fuel rods than my choice of recipes produces, I'll get 21 when it all fires up, but I'm not using the alts, I doubt I'd need the excess power.

[thorn bane]

no as in if you sink plutonium rods its 50.4->12.6 plutonium rods
if you want to use them its 50.4-> 22.4 (i think?) plutonium rods

cause then you use the good alts

[wind spade]

uhh what's the difference there? why would production to sink make less? 🤔

[thorn bane]

cause it uses less other resources so you want to use the least waste efficient recipe

[wind spade]

it's more points tho 🤔

but yeah fair

[frosty owl]

Your priority is processing the waste

[thorn bane]

the points are very very small since the amount of plutonium rods is so small

ADS gives 5x as much points AND you can make 100x as much/min

[cinder silo]

I think with my setup i'd get 5.5 plutonium rods for the sink.

[thorn bane]

by that point in the game you probably already have quite some points

[frosty owl]

Realistically, if one looks for points, it's worth saving resources on plutonium to make space elevator parts or something xD

[wind spade]

yeah I get that. Was just a bit confused about why that happens

[cinder silo]

I have 533 tickets unspent though.

[thorn bane]

also why i have to turn off plutonium unit everytime i make a new planner with my 12.6 plutonium rods cause other wise it wont use all the waste xD (fix when plox)

[wind spade]

I'm not sure if I want to add "most resource inefficient" solver target 🤔

[frosty owl]

All the times one shares a plan only to get asked "why is it using fine concrete?" or similar

[wind spade]

fine concrete is fine

[thorn bane]

nah just the option to make certain inputs have to be used up (waste + all the plutonium stuff)
that way it would just make extra plutonium rods as byproduct but would realize that thats not resource efficient

everything that doesnt have a sink value i guess
wonder if that would change HOR byproduct aswell

[wind spade]

I could technically do "use all of this input" option, but I feel like the planner would just go like "I'm gonna process it with one recipe and here's your byproduct"

[thorn bane]

yes thats why you only do it for stuff that doesnt have a sink value

[wind spade]

wdym?

planner doesn't use sink value for anything (yet)

[frosty owl]

Treating plutonium fuel rods as a byproduct seems in line with what one would require of such a function imo

[thorn bane]

so it turns the waste into plutonium fuel rod byproducts
or turns the HOR into coke byprodcut

[wind spade]

so basically forbidding the tool to produce certain item as a byproduct? 🤔

I think I have that somewhere in todo list

[thorn bane]

yes exactly, those that you cant sink

[wind spade]

oh I would rather do it in a way that the player can configure

(e.g. a checkbox for each item)

[thorn bane]

sure but that would require additional ui
sink would be fast but up to you

[wind spade]

but also hidden from users

[thorn bane]

ye ofc you want both
disable the items that you cant sink by default and then let the user chose

[wind spade]

I think I'll keep everything enabled by default 🤔

though that still doesn't help you with your issue anyway

[thorn bane]

i wonder if you might get some weird results with water byproduct

[wind spade]

you also want an "use all input" option

[thorn bane]

oh i thought inputs and byproducts were kinda classed as the same type

but ye waste as byproduct when xd

[wind spade]

no, input is "here you can use this free item if you need", byproduct is "hey I produced this extra"

[ashen girder]

Byproduct has to be consumed.

Or no?

[thorn bane]

no (thats kinda the point)

[wind spade]

there's definitely plan for "no-byproduct" option. Though that'll probably come together with sink update

[thorn bane]

yo anyone got an up to date reasonably expensive pc that could try my savegame end tell me the fps? xD

[haughty roost]

Anyone have a system that splits 4 into 20?

Or 10

Wait no

[wind spade]

Manifold

[ashen girder]

I can later. DM it to me.

[haughty roost]

1 into 10 and 20

[ashen girder]

Just dropped like $2500 on my new tower a couple months ago. 😁

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

Jusrlt expand that to desired number

[thorn bane]

ye what greeny said
and if you (for some reason) still want to balance it
https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Tutorial:Prime_splitter_arrays

[fierce ruin]

wait thats a manifold?

[wind spade]

Yes

[fierce ruin]

holy shit. ive been doing that for so long and didnt realise that they were manifolds

[haughty roost]

Yes, but that wont split everything equally

Automatically, anyway

Will it?

[fierce ruin]

unless you wait for them to backup

[fierce ruin]

It will just take a while

[haughty roost]

Im trying to power 20 coal generators with 1 coal node

So I need each generator to get the same amount of coal

[fierce ruin]

not possible with mk2 miner and pure node

unless you overclock and have mk4 belts

[lunar venture]

let them "fill up" before you turn the power on and you won't notice a difference

[fierce ruin]

That too

[ashen girder]

"Need" is the wrong word here.

[haughty roost]

With that setup the first generator will get half the coal, the second will get a fourth, the third will get an eighth, and so on

[haughty roost]

Exactly what im doing

[fierce ruin]

yes but once it all backs up it wont run out if you have enough coal coming in a minute

[wind spade]

First machine will fill up and then only accept how much it needs, everything else will overflow to next machine. Eventually all will work at 100%, just takes a few minutes

[haughty roost]

Okay

That makes sense

Thank you

Never really thought of that

[fierce ruin]

just dont plug into main grid until all of them are backed up

[wind spade]

Unless you have enough power

Then it's fine

[fierce ruin]

Yep

[empty notch]

It can take a while before it saturates completely. The bigger the build the longer it takes, my nuclear plant took like 60 hours to saturate completely. The closer it comes to 100% saturation, the slower it saturates

[agile turret]

By the time you've got MK 4 belts, wouldn't you have oil power too? As I understand it, oil makes coal obsolete anyways

For power purposes

[haughty roost]

Yup

I could use the oil but im just trying to teach myself how to make better looking and working things

Just in the process of learning stuff

[vast jungle]

default oil recipes are not that great for power generation... yes it works, but its not good enough to undo all coal powerplants...

[thorn bane]

each fuel refinery can make the equivalent of 6 coal gens
idk that sounds pretty good to me
the only issue i have usually is that i dont have the resources to build alot of fuel generators
5 computers 10 HMF and 15 Motors is ALOT considering 1 fuel gen is equivalent to 2 coal gens

[vast jungle]

still... its quite a lot of Refineries and you don't get that much power out, so I would just keep the Coal powerplants until you get to something more efficient (in terms of buildings/GW)

[thorn bane]

its 500MW per fuel refinery?

i mean sure keep them cause why not but i feel like default fuel generators already gives you alot of power

[vast jungle]

you mean the standard "Fuel" recipe?

[thorn bane]

yes it makes 40/min
guel gens take 12/min

[vast jungle]

I think I only did the math for the HOR=>(Residual) Fuel chain...

[thorn bane]

that uses alot more refiners (3.75 instead of 1.5)

[vast jungle]

funny... "normal Fuel" is nearly has nearly the same Refinery count that Packaged Diluted Fuel" per GW

2.2 Refineries/GW to 2.3 Refineries/GW

[thorn bane]

yep its pretty good 🙂

[vast jungle]

thanks for pointing out I forgot the "normal Fuel" in my powerchart...

now it has 7 Entries... (all for Oil)

[thorn bane]

it just uses alot of oil
but at that point you probably have alot of oil nodes around since they are clustered together

[vast jungle]

I built a 9 GW DPF powerplant when I upgraded from Coal...

that was reasonable complex and gave me a good boost in terms of GW

[thorn bane]

how many generators is that?

[vast jungle]

60 Fuel Generators

[thorn bane]

ye that seems about right

[vast jungle]

and I am thinking about going on another HD hunt to get the "Diluted Fuel" recipe before I build a proper Plastic and Rubber plant ^^

[thorn bane]

imo they are alot of fun to build 🙂

[vast jungle]

I want to try to build the recycling part of the Rubber/Plastic production this time without a loop... just linear... I think I found some numbers that work out without crazy underclock fractions

just 1/3, 2/3 and 100% ratios

the only problem is that I still need to automate Crystal Oscilators and Radio Control Units... need them for the Blenders

[thorn bane]

i mean if its not huge you can also do the canister loops
thats a fun build aswell if you dont over do it

[vast jungle]

I have done a LOT canister loops... both in my previous playthrough and in the current one

but I would finally like to build a oil-plant without one 😉

[thorn bane]

ah i see :D

[vast jungle]

the DFP loops with stacked packager/unpackager looks quite nice with the new floor holes

[wind spade]

I know, I even have tool to calculate the fill time

[empty notch]

Oh really? :) that´s a nice to have
Fill time is one thing
Maybe next to that a graph that shows production in function of time? Then you can see when it gets to like half production capacity or 90% capacity

Where i can find this tool?

[wind spade]

It's kinda also in the tool

https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/machine-fill

[empty notch]

Cool!

I can see you like some numbers and their relation

Perhaps you want more data to process?

Becouse there is

And it´s untapped up until right now

That´s real sad actually becouse i have dived into it and checked it out. It really contains a treusure of info

Your interested?

[wind spade]

Wdym

[empty notch]

well there is this guy that made a mod that extracs all kind of info out of satisfactory and was in search of a webdev
i really like statistics and graphs for all kind of reasons so i went looking out for devs that are willing to make use of this data and transform it to all kind of interesting formats

you are a webdev, ...

that's why

it'll be a interesting time

[uncut sigil]

You're being vague to the point of sounding dodgy 😛

[empty notch]

actually not! there is nothing more to say about it if one is not interested in such project

[wind spade]

Maybe a link to it, name of the project or the person looking for the developer, what are they offering or if it's "I hope i get help for free", etc.

"Someone made something and wants some help" doesn't really give me any info that I could base my interest on

[wind spade]

I have no idea what that is

[spiral echo]

whats the best recipe ?

[wind spade]

first one adds caterium to wire to make more wire
second one saves one machine, but no materials (usually for material savings you want steel screws)
third one makes more concrete by just adding water

pick what you need

[barren idol]

Exit signals?

[wind spade]

change the entry (block) signals to path signals and make exit signal block

[barren idol]

And then I won't need to put block signals all over the 2-way track?

[wind spade]

you don't need them, but only one train would be able to go there at one time

[barren idol]

ha

that's exactly the problem

[wind spade]

the more dense your block signals on the track are, the more trains it can support

for just a few trains you don't need many signals

[barren idol]

There's no logical reason to allow one train on a single direction

*one

[fierce ruin]

?

[oblique hollow]

Its simply the way blocks work rn

[barren idol]

Yes I understand that.
Trying to get a Block Termination signal from devs......

[oblique hollow]

if you have 2 trains of varying length, one will accelerate faster than the other

so these blocks would fail at some point

what you want is a "speed limit" signal or something

[fierce ruin]

If you need 2 trains going on the same rails at the same time just chain path signals.

[wintry aurora]

Or it’ll deadlock anyway because one is too big.

Depending on the setup.

[oblique hollow]

wouldnt a lot of block signals do the same

it both results in "many signals needed"

[fierce ruin]

True.

Chaining paths can be smoother though given it just lets a train fly through if there is no other train ahead of it.

[barren idol]

I don't get it... why is it complicated? 2 trains going on the same track in the same direction - they should be allowed, and should NOT collide, even without signals. Common sense no?

[fierce ruin]

If you don't have signals they can 100% go on the same rail provided they arrive at different times.

[barren idol]

....

weird answers

We don't know the times they arrive...

[barren idol]

Check this

[fierce ruin]

Already read it.

Your questions don't exactly make sense.

[wind spade]

almost nowhere in the world is one-way track operated without signals

[fierce ruin]

Because if you signal properly you can also get 2 trains on the same rail going the same way.

[wind spade]

the trains can't just go and assume the train before them didn't stop for some reason

[wintry aurora]

Unless there’s only one train on the system, but where’s the fun in that.

[fierce ruin]

I rarely need multi-train systems tbh 🙃

Given A: I don't do megabases and B: I use trucks and drones "properly" to have the whole logistics system working together instead of "JUST TRAINS AND ONLY TRAINS BECAUSE TRAIN REASONS AND NOTHING BESIDES TRAINS"

[thorn bane]

trucks

[barren idol]

Got it @wind spade and @fierce ruin.
It made sense to me that straight tracks same direction doesn't need signals

[wintry aurora]

Still need block signals though.

[oblique hollow]

@fierce ruin heres my masterful idea. And beautifully, trains get stuck if the path is invalid
And no, the signal will not switch over. This forces clever thinking of where / when to use these.
It enables stackers, yes, but the train has to pass through one of the stacker arms, even if the main path to the station is empty.

and theres no way to manually select a path

[fierce ruin]

Nu. 😛

[oblique hollow]

in essence its a path signal but it forces a specific path (kinda like when you use one-way sigalling on tracks)

[fierce ruin]

I still hold the system is fine as-is and doesn't need changes.
But if they expand it I will of course use whatever they add.

[oblique hollow]

i will make a suggestion with this and see what happens. I can see some funny stuff happening if this gets added.
"Why is my train stuck"
"your selector sent it onto a track where it cant go anywhere"
"how do i fix this"
"build better tracks lul"

its basically a conveyor splitter

[frosty owl]

If possible (and if I got the generaleaning right besides the few messages I read), I think I'd prefer a "activate dynamic pathfinding" from "Dynamic path signal" to the next block

[oblique hollow]

boooooo

automatic dynamic repathing is boring

id rather have this

[frosty owl]

Your solution is limited to allowing stacker, no way to use it in more general situations (where which path is taken actually matters)

[gloomy palm]

oh heck the signal conversation continued here

[oblique hollow]

says you. the point is: whenever it reaches a selector signal, it starts repathing.
since it only switches when a train approaches you in effect can make a bypass for stations

[tropic hawk]

Time for a controversial topic: Which is better: Compacted Coal, or normal Coal for fueling Coal Power Plants?

Context: Early game, only lvl 3 logistics

[gloomy palm]

why can't we just group stations into blocks and avoid this complex multiplexer signalling

[oblique hollow]

compacted is energy deficient last i remembered

so you actually get less energy out than you invest to make it

[thorn bane]

"In contradiction to its description Compacted Coal is not actually a more efficient fuel source for Coal Generators when considering net power. Since at 100% clock speed it takes 180MJ for an Assembler to make 5 compacted coal the net energy of one compacted coal is actually 594MJ. Compared to using 2 Coal, which are worth a total of 600MJ, using 1 Coal + 1 Sulfur actually results in less net power. This can be counteracted by using Assemblers underclocked to 73.7957% or less." https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Compacted_Coal

[tropic hawk]

But in comparison with one coal to one compacted coal, which one is better?

[oblique hollow]

you dont realize the implication:
if you have a train and it cant reach a station, it automatically selects the next station in it's time table. thats current behaviour

[thorn bane]

1 coal + 1 sulfur < 2 coal
1 coal + 1 sulfur > 1 coal (duh)

[gloomy palm]

😮

[oblique hollow]

or, if its one big loop, the train just tries again next time

[gloomy palm]

ye

but you'd have two trains and two stations

so if one's occupied it goes to the next

if you had three trains and two stations, it would wait at the first one to free up

[oblique hollow]

one would always pass along because you cant fit 3 into 2

[gloomy palm]

assuming it didn't have that station in its table?

#off-topic-media message

if it needs to go to a station, it wouldn't go straight

[oblique hollow]

if the station is not in the table then i dont want it to magically pick another tbh.

[gloomy palm]

no it wouldn't

only the trains that have that block of stations in the table would do that

look for nearest available station in the block

it keeps traffic moving

[frosty owl]

"A bypass for a station" aka a stacker?
So the signal would be made specifically only to allow stackers 🤔

[oblique hollow]

how is a bypass a stacker

im talking about "if station occupied : keep moving past it"

[tropic hawk]

all right, what seems to be the issue here?

[frosty owl]

An example of the reasoning for that?

[oblique hollow]

what reasoning? the reasoning of why it would work that way or why its needed or what?

[gloomy palm]

the issue is what do we call this setup/behaviour
#off-topic-media message

the two stations could be considered the same station, just with an extra entry point

maybe they could add stations that have two lanes

[frosty owl]

Why you'd want the train to skip a station without docking (thus clearing up the needs and uses of such a bypass)

[oblique hollow]

depends on how you set up your train. if this is the ONLY station you need your trains at, then its not needed.

however i just saw a possible flaw in "moves to next exit on whenever a train passes by"

[frosty owl]

Of course it depends... I'm trying to understand the need it depends on. Like "why a train skipping a station is OK, but a train waiting for docking and then passing through the station is not"

[oblique hollow]

right, sorry, ill have to stop here.
i cant further go on with train routing logic.
its that time of day for me again where i just cant.

[frosty owl]

I don't get it, but sure ^^

[oblique hollow]

you dont have to get it. its simply too late for me to use that much logical thinking

[fierce ruin]

but does it account for the fact you can be making compacted coal using 1% underclocked machines?

[thorn bane]

no and you should feel bad for assuming so

[oblique hollow]

with that way of thinking anything is energy efficient

"just use 5 billion machines at 1%"

[thorn bane]

*also yes? "This can be counteracted by using Assemblers underclocked to 73.7957% or less.""

[fierce ruin]

bingo!

so just build a few hundreds of assemblers, and you're making energy-efficient compacted coal!

[gloomy palm]

I suggested a train station with two lanes and man said "ew"

[oblique hollow]

ew

[frosty owl]

Rudew

[gloomy palm]

lol

[fierce ruin]

as many other building games go, Satisfactory shouldn't have things that actually can be made out of smaller things the game already have.

So no to many-laned stations

[gloomy palm]

except two stations is not the same as one station with two lanes, the former requires timetabling each station separately

[fierce ruin]

of course it's not exactly the same. But it's similar enough.

[gloomy palm]

one station with two lanes can be scheduled in two trains and used simultaneously

treated as one station

[oblique hollow]

might have found a solution:
selector exits can have same numbers. so the first open block will be chosen.
that way j gets his "parallel stations" sorted out, but only if that station was in the in the time table to begin with.

overall parallel stations is a time table nightmare

[frosty owl]

Can you name stations the same and do trains still distinguish between them if you do?

[oblique hollow]

they currently treat same name stations as different stations

its just you dont know which is which

[frosty owl]

Could have been a neat "exploit"

[gloomy palm]

if you gave them the same ID in the save file it might lead to undefined behaviour

[oblique hollow]

overall that line of thinking sounds dumb tho because...
just dedicate a train to a specific station

[gloomy palm]

nO

[oblique hollow]

parallel station choosing is lazy

[gloomy palm]

😦 but throughput

[frosty owl]

That's a solution I like more

[oblique hollow]

2 trains do enough work there anyway

want more? longer trains

[gloomy palm]

😦

[topaz hedge]

Just use belts

[oblique hollow]

parallel stations are the same as one long station

just dumber to navigate

[frosty owl]

Just balance

[gloomy palm]

it's not the same! two trains can't use a single longer station at the same time!

[oblique hollow]

if you fit in a small waiting track before the stations, you can adjust how many trains are allowed to queue up. before they pass along

[frosty owl]

Ngl, I did feel like unironically say "just balance" after someone told me how they ran out of stored power since their factory took much much much longer to boot up then expected (so power ran out before the factory was even in full swing)

[oblique hollow]

just dedicate em to each station lul. that third train will always wait at one station anyway, might aswell have it wait at the same stations.
your solution will not increase efficiency

[gloomy palm]

😭😭😭

[oblique hollow]

3 trains and 2 stations works the same if you dedicate a train to a station or have em dynamically choose one

[frosty owl]

Or if they should queue up at all (this sounds more reasonable/realistic to me)

[gloomy palm]

how can moving trains be possibly less efficient than waiting trains ??

[oblique hollow]

3 trains, 2 stations. whats the ideal solution?

[frosty owl]

If they're moving and they don't have to they're wasting power and causing traffic for no reason

[topaz hedge]

What is this logic

[gloomy palm]

only one train waits

[oblique hollow]

well abra cadabra thats exactly what happens if you dedicate train 1 and 3 to station one and train 2 to station two

[frosty owl]

Ideally speaking, one would pro ably want to have their train wait as long as possible inside stations and be using the common rails as little as possible

[thorn bane]

thats the reason i only do wait until full trains nowadays

[oblique hollow]

literally nothing is gained by dynamic station choosing that way

[topaz hedge]

2 stations and 4 trains is the answer lol

[oblique hollow]

2 wait, 2 dock

[frosty owl]

A single big train is "more efficient" (rail traffic-wise) than multiple ones, given your spacing can accommodate for either

Small ones have more "flexibility" in how they can deliver cargo and more throughput, but also will mean more traffic than a single train, as simple as that imo

[oblique hollow]

as for traffic, selector signals could be used to spread the load onto 2 rails

for parallel traffic

[topaz hedge]

If you have a two track system it can already handle a considerable about if traffic

[oblique hollow]

there

multi in-multi out could be interesting

[frosty owl]

Now that's more interesting :)

[oblique hollow]

what now

do they just alternate?

i guess its the usual behaviour

[frosty owl]

They always go through even if 1 or 2 is busy

[oblique hollow]

its basically a load balancer now

[frosty owl]

Trainload Balancer 🤦‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

since this is 1 and 2 not 1 and 1

oops we made a train load balancer :)

load balance of track usage basically LOL

also a load balancer technically.

[ashen girder]

Do.. do y'all actually want those for some reason?

[oblique hollow]

trains just go through i guess?

i just wanna do the same shit with trains like i can do with pipes

Train Logic Gates

A giant train computer

the downside of these signals is trains need to do a full stop every time so theres your game balance

[thorn bane]

train circuit

[oblique hollow]

har har har

[oblique hollow]

k how about this: multiple entries into the same block not allowed.

"undefined logic"

[frosty owl]

(You are very much allowed to ping ^^)
I don't think I get what you mean

[oblique hollow]

just.... dont allow multiple selector entries to be connected to multiple selector exits

only 1 selector for X Exits

so you have to do smaller and more nuanced blocks

or not. and just allow multiple entires, i dunno

[frosty owl]

The differences in possibilities and risks are unclear to me

[cinder silo]

Fingers crossed a complete cold restart of the refinery works, I'd hate to do a rip-out for a fifth time.

[small oasis]

That's like the chain-block signal from Factorio.

[oblique hollow]

is it though

it doesnt alternate between outputs