math-and-meta

[wind spade]

also would be cool to not post stuff into multiple channels 😉

[jolly thunder]

@wind spade yes I know and sorry for that, and thanks for advice 🙂

[wispy elk]

Looking for some help with a bit of a complex math question regard overflow factories

I am making an iron overflow factory. I want it to make plates, rods, screws, reinforced iron plate, rotors, modular frames. I want to take the plates and send it to my reinforced iron plates, instead of making more iron plates for no purpose but for that. I am using no alternate recipes or anything like that. Is there a good way of doing this with the massive amount of plates I have going, how should be thinking to math this out... sorry kind of broad but I am a little stumped.

[wind spade]

not sure where's the "overflow" part in that, but usually people just put numbers in some of the online tools and build the result

[wispy elk]

@wind spade won't work. I am sending all the parts to storage and then they will overflow to the asseblers to make more complex parts.

[wind spade]

so if you empty the storages, you won't have any production? that sounds weird

I'd rather make some plates for storage and some plates for reinforced plates

[wispy elk]

I am also imputting 1870 iron ore into this factory.

[magic island]

if you're planning use smart splitter manifolds to send as many iron plates as possible into r.plate assemblers and only keep the overflow, then just make sure the amount of iron plates produced >= amount consumed and send em through.

but im not fully clear on the question

[wispy elk]

I guess what I am afraid of is that with the way I build overflow is it will build plates then rods then screws. It will fill up the assemblers for reinforced with plates first and then it will get to screws.

[wind spade]

it's just much easier to build everything in ratio

if a machine needs screws, build enough screws for it

if a machine needs plates, build enough plates for it

etc etc

[wispy elk]

Greeny I understand what you are saying and to a point I agree with you and thank you for your advice. But I want to try to bungie jump and you are telling me how dangerous it is. I am just wondering how it could be done.

[wind spade]

with smart splitters 🤷‍♂️ but it would mean that any loss of material (e.g. you picking up plates for building) would result in shortage of other materials (e.g. reinforced plates)

[magic island]

I don't know that you can set it up in a conditional way to go like, "if some iron plates overflow into the r.plate constructors, start making enough rods for the required screws"

other than sending the ingots to rods & screws from the start

[wispy elk]

Ya at this rate I think what I will do is under feed them by about 1/5 to 1/4 of the total amount of the belt. So if my belt holds 270 that would let 4.5 assemblers use them. So instead of that just putting down three.

that way when it tries to play catch up there is not as much to catch up to.

[glacial stag]

How long can I get away with having my max consumption being higher than production?

[fierce cypress]

because max consumption ≠ consumption

[glacial stag]

I'm still only at ~5GW and am getting ready to turn on turbo motor production.

[fierce cypress]

oh wait misread ur msg srry

i mean you can probably get away with it up until nuclear, but i wouldnt reccomend it

[glacial stag]

Maybe I can get my batteries up to a TWh

[stuck iron]

Make some batteries

[fierce cypress]

batteries will only delay the inevitable

[glacial stag]

I'm running solely off of Geothermal atm

[stuck iron]

Ha nice. I've yet go build a geothermal generator

[fierce cypress]

later game stuff

[glacial stag]

Bootstrapping supercomputer production off of 1GW of coal was... "interesting".

But the geothermal plants were a breeze after that.

And I only have to do refinery stuff for rubber/plastic

[stuck iron]

Trying to decide if I'll expand my diluted fuel generators or just go nuclear. Oh who am I kidding I'll go nuclear.

[copper stag]

what program is this? ive been looking for one for a bit now

[candid tundra]

It's actually a site I made that I released yesterday :D
https://www.satisfactory-planner.net

[copper stag]

Tysm!

[thorn bane]

@wispy elk a bus can do that 🙂
the first splitter on the right in that picture decides how much goes to storage and how much is used for other stuff and just like a manifold once its full it will overflow and be used for other production
if you use a normal splitter its 50% to storage 50% to other factories but you could balance that
could also use a smart splitter for 100% storage 0% other factories until full but i dont like that

the overflow iron plates then go on to the bus to be send to other factories

also works with >780 items by just adding multiple lines to the bus like your 1870 iron
for example this is 4500 quickwire being stored before going to other factories
i used https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_rXrJ8CWyjNExcayArby3HjRpDUXV5sd8QvFrdNZxBc/edit#heading=h.i4mh5jaa6ir1 to handle the different factories

if your iron plate factory is far away you can also use trains to bring it to the bus (in the above screenshot you can see me doing that with 2000 copper sheets/min)

[vast jungle]

what happens if the overflow belt of the compressor overflows?

imagine having 4 belts to compress, but the 2 lower ones are empty and the two higher ones are full... in this case the compressor would populate belt 1 and 3 I think... not 1 and 2

[thorn bane]

then the factory stops
so more iron ingots are available for other factories and you save power
thats only the case if RIPs and everything else is full though

[thorn bane]

it would go from 4 and 3 to 3 and 2
you then need another to get it to 1 and 2

[vast jungle]

yeah

[thorn bane]

but thats never the case since you either only take out the lowest row or readjust the output to go to a lower lane to adjust for that
so unless you made a mistake you never need to transfer 2 lines far

[vast jungle]

I must admit I mostly use trains for "high capacity" transport of items...

[vestal rune]

im guessing that running a single bus, to gather and then feed every machine, down a large assembly line. Is a horrible idea, right?

[vast jungle]

depends on your playstyle...

I never bothered with Buses

[thorn bane]

well i did that and imo its the best way to build a factory

its just not that good early game with belt limits of 60 etc
once you have 480 or 780 its fine

[vestal rune]

aaa

thats the issue then, sitting at tier 3 belts

[thorn bane]

#math-and-meta message
just talked about my bus 🙂

[vast jungle]

Tier 4 belt material is awful to make (Encased Industrial Beams)

[thorn bane]

ye i actually skip mk2 and mk4 and go straight from steel beams to alu
those also dont stack to 200...

[vestal rune]

this is what i tryed to build, with one dedicated bus for the ingots and another bus for the rest. To feed and gather off the same conveyer. But i cant seem to get it to run right. Using tier 3 belts.

[thorn bane]

amelie of the sea has a great video about how to build a bus like that
https://youtu.be/I4oysebwPz4?t=9456

[vestal rune]

cheers

[sonic vector]

so I'm new to this game and I've run into a bit of a problem: i've been trying to make a main bus but when I try to use splitters to split off into production lines it just reduces the amount of resources on the bus, and the more splitters I use the more it decreases, splitter after splitter. How can I solve this?

[drowsy harbor]

which tier are you at?
have you unlocked the smart splitter already?

[sonic vector]

I'm currently in the process of doing that now

[drowsy harbor]

i'm not using buses but i would recommend setting up smart splitters with overflowing

[tropic hawk]

have you guys noticed the tetris-like game in the HUB?

[sturdy cipher]

What’s the logic behind the overflow setting I’ve only started using it?

[tropic hawk]

if other outputs are set, it will only flow out an overflow if the other outputs cannot handle the input to the splitter

[thorn bane]

wait isnt that how its supposed to be?
you split the resources from the bus to the factory
if you bus is empty at the end of the line that then means that youre not producing enough of that resource

i use normal splitters in my bus (atleast the <780 lines)

[sturdy cipher]

Oh ok

[thorn bane]

just think of it as a manifold
if your first machine isnt full (in this case your factory) it wont overflow so you need to provide more resources to match the demand

[frosty owl]

Any item that can't go to a splitter's output will be kept in inventory as "overflow" and one item is out putted in the "overflow output) whenever a fourth" unsortable" item comes in

[sonic vector]

well, i suppose so, but the throughput limit of mark 4 belts limit how much resources I can put through my bus

[frosty owl]

That's basic belt throughput math: of you start with 100 X/min on a belt, after splitting you'll have 50 on one belt, 50 on another, then 25/25 and so on... (Until the belts back up)

[sonic vector]

right, so how can I balance the demand for all belts in a manufacturing array so all machines are producing at max efficiency?

[frosty owl]

Either via load balancing or just keeping track of how much each of your manifolds needs and make sure you're providing enough

[sonic vector]

what is load balancing?

[sturdy cipher]

Splitting things equally using splitters

Basically

[sonic vector]

but how does that work if they just split 50/50

[frosty owl]

When you make sure each machine gets the correct amount of items. Lots of ways to do so
Opposed to manifolding, where each machine uses what overflows from the previous machine

[sturdy cipher]

Wdym they split 50/50 or 33/33/33

[sturdy cipher]

Also called the overflow method

[frosty owl]

If you have 60/min and need 30/min you split in half; if you need 20 you split in 3 instead, and so on for more complicated numbers

[frosty owl]

Sounds like you were having issues with belt mixing?

[sonic vector]

i see

[sturdy cipher]

It can take up a lot of space and is harder to edit because it’s so specific which is why people use manifold

[frosty owl]

Sure, but also makes it so any factory can start producing at 100% almost immediatly rather than having to wait for hundreds or thousands of items to pile up in the machines first

[sturdy cipher]

Which is why I personally like it

You also reminded me that I accidentally had my coal generator factory on manifold I need to fix that before I power it up haha

[wind spade]

Which isn't a good name 🤷 since overflow is a setting on smart splitters

[thorn bane]

so what would be a better name?

[wind spade]

Manifold

[sturdy cipher]

People call it both I only call it manifold because of that reason

[thorn bane]

no i mean "the splitter overflows to the next machine"
curious if there would be a better word than overflow since i dont want to imply its an overflow splitter

[wind spade]

People also call long conveyors bus, doesn't make them right 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

And yet I usually know what they mean :P

[wind spade]

No idea

[wind spade]

Yeah, but it's never too late to educate them

[frosty owl]

Nor is it too late to stop being too rigid over nomenclature 😉

[wind spade]

Everyone has a hobby 🤷

[fierce ruin]

🚌

[cinder silo]

I have some 4+km beltways that are 6-12 belts across and I don't consider it a bus, just a consolidation of resources 🙂

[sand epoch]

That is a lot of back and forth... wow

[azure gust]

alright, due to.... reasons, I'm going from packaged heavy oil residue to packaged fuel. I can do one of the following:
Unpackage Heavy Oil Residue [Packager x30] + Package Water [Packager x20] -> Diluted Packaged Fuel [Refinery x20]
-or-
Unpackage Heavy Oil Residue [Packager x30] -> Diluted Fuel [Blender x12] -> Package Fuel [Packager x30]

I'm leaning towards the first option, as I can set up a packaged water factory off-site for easier organization, but was curious what you all thought anyways

I'll need roughly 19 duplicates of the little module I've proposed anyways

[short holly]

Not sure of numbers but 2nd option avoids refineries which is nice. might be cheaper on power too.

[azure gust]

while I'm all for avoiding refineries, I'm not sure that blenders are all that much better 😉

[short holly]

i quite like blenders, much easier to vertically build as well

at less than half the height. but if you go horizontal, then yeah refineries are probably easier

[wintry aurora]

Certainly simplifies the diluted fuel process.

[short holly]

also depends if you have water nearby or if you need to move it...

[azure gust]

this process also needs a lot of water, so I'll probably be reasonably horizontal regardless

if this is helpful, https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=Y2cL1VrkC1fS5WFgdthj
vs.
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=A6jtzcVLnWuLN4XGeWEb

[thorn bane]

1 blender is roughly 1 extractor and they are roughly the same size

hm ye i think id do the refineries
nicer ratio, less buildings and no pipes

[short holly]

i think I agree. it's the same input and result either way. what's all the packaged fuel for?

[azure gust]

~45% for recycled plastic, 53% for recycled rubber, and <2% for fused modular frames

[thorn bane]

why package it though

[azure gust]

because I'm using the Storage Teleporter mod, which means I don't need to belt/pipe stuff anywhere, but it doesn't currently work with liquids

[thorn bane]

ah

[short holly]

ah.

[azure gust]

I can feel the judgement 😄

[short holly]

i'm confused about using it to make recycled plastic/rubber - doesn't that just eat rubber/plastic? presumably, the diluted fuel gives a net gain?

(I haven't got all the unlocks so i'm not familiar with these alts)

[azure gust]

the recycled plastic/rubber alts are interesting in that they definitely do increase your net gain

[fierce ruin]

it never does
recycled recipes are always strictly better than the basic ones, even without diluted fuel

basic recipe is plastic/rubber+HOR, recycled allows you to turn all that HOR into more plastic/rubber

even better if you just make HOR directly

[azure gust]

for example, if I'm using 1000 oil to make plastic, I can make it [directly] into 667 plastic + 333 Heavy Oil Residue

[short holly]

thanks, was about to ask

[azure gust]

if I first convert that 1000 oil to HOR, then use the various alt recipes [like Residual Rubber, Recycled Plastic, and Recycled Rubber], I can convert that 1000 oil into 3000 plastic [and no other byproducts]

[thorn bane]

oh wow if you dont have diluted fuel its actually most efficient to use the polymer resin alt + residual fuel/residual rubber
never expected that recipe to be used

[azure gust]

for my current game, all of my oil is being converted to HOR 🙂

[short holly]

that's interesting! in my current map I don't have these recipes at the minute (plus i'm burning my residuals fuel for power)

i see more expansion on the horizon

[azure gust]

well, all of my oil eventually, currently some of it is being used to power some fuel plants because I haven't bothered to set up nuclear yet

[fierce ruin]

really? How? The tools don't give me that.

[thorn bane]

i just unselected diluted fuel on got this https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=x2NXpnePANaRtuJuCSoG

[short holly]

still needs all the other alts though

[fierce ruin]

ah right, it works for rubber, but not plastic

I was looking at plastic

[thorn bane]

oh interesting

[fierce ruin]

also I tuned off water 😆

[azure gust]

I've thought about setting up some massive packaged water farm somewhere, so that the rest of my factories don't need their own water supplies

my planner says that I'd need around 1086 water extractors, and that'd need something like 2172 packagers too

that seems a bit excessive 😛

[river night]

water is available most places, so shipping it is usually pretty pointless, unless you really want to 😄

[azure gust]

I keep running into an issue on the west side of the map where you're in water, but can't place extractors because there's no 'ground' underneath the water

[frosty owl]

Not worth it imo (not for effort nor for game performance)
At that point it would probably take less and be more efficient "just" piping the water normally from local sources even if not too close

It might be nice for fluids you have smaller amounts of, but packaging water to me is the equivalent of sending screws via drone for pipes 😅

[azure gust]

I send all my screws via trucks, thank you

[frosty owl]

And I bet you also power those trucks with batteries or higher tier fuels

[azure gust]

plutonium fuel rods, why?

[sonic vector]

Nuclear pasta, why?

[azure gust]

because it's needed for T4 space elevator

[vernal heart]

Quick question, when you calculate input for ANYTHING. And you get a number like 22.5. Does it mean that you need 22 that runs on say 100% speed then a 23rd one that runs on 50% or is it the 22nd that runs on 50%?

[oblique hollow]

22 whole and one extra at less

else it would be 21.5

to get the machine count, round up

[tropic hawk]

the former

[thorn bane]

just think of it as you want 2250% efficiency in total

[vernal heart]

Oh I see, thanks for the help

[tropic hawk]

good way of looking at it.

[ashen girder]

If you want to minimize power supply, distribute that 2250 as evenly as possible, too.

[wind spade]

2250 machines at 1%

[ashen girder]

Would minimize the power the most, yes.

[gloomy palm]

this is the kind of stuff you could use to explain the difference between CPU cores and CPU frequency

[ashen girder]

9 machines at 250 if you want to spend the most possible energy. 😂

[oblique hollow]

you could spent 4 MW with one machine doing all the work but why be inefiicient when you got 3 other perfectly good machines next to it.

spreading the load

though unfortunately theres a point where there is no real benefit to spreading the load

[ashen girder]

For various definitions of "real".

[gloomy palm]

is it true that some machines have a non-linear power usage increase at 250%

[wind spade]

All of them and always, not just at 250%

[gloomy palm]

so there could be a sweetspot where instead of overclocking X machines, you can add a new machine and save power (whilest having same throughpout)

[thorn bane]

more machines always saves power

[gloomy palm]

a blind example, 3 machines at 200% uses more power than 4 machines at 150%, but they produce the same item throughput? is that the kind of thing talking about?

[gloomy palm]

hmm

[ashen girder]

The two examples greeny and I gave are the absolute extremes, but every extra machine reduces power consumption by some amount.

It's just that often times it's like 0.05MW.

[gloomy palm]

ohhh

[ashen girder]

So you have to decide for yourself how to handle it.

[gloomy palm]

isn't there a way to calculate the power per item/machine amount ratio sweetspot

[ashen girder]

I'm not sure there is a sweet spot. 😂

It's fundamentally a trade between space and power.

[gloomy palm]

this sounds like the premise for star citizen

[thorn bane]

theres no sweetspot
100 machines at 10% takes 25% power
10 machines at 100% takes 100% power
4 machiness at 250% takes 173% power
(thats the image i linked)

[gloomy palm]

which page is this from?

constructor?

[thorn bane]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Clock_speed

[ashen girder]

You can also be like me and just give absolutely zero shits about it. 😂😂😂

I round up and just leave them all at 100% like a monster.

[gloomy palm]

hmm

well

i put everything to 250% unless it causes a problem

[wintry aurora]

That’s a heck of a lot of shards, and power usage.

[gloomy palm]

yeah 😐

[ashen girder]

That's a like 4x increase in power for not much gain..

[gloomy palm]

o

[thorn bane]

well the gain is you make 2.5x as much stuff

i think thats a pretty good gain

[gloomy palm]

ya

[ashen girder]

For the price though? 😂

I do OC stuff. But everything? Yikes.

[thorn bane]

if i had the shards i would too 🤷

[ashen girder]

Man. That's worse than me.

[gloomy palm]

surely there's a sweet spot where there's the best power to item/m ratio

[wind spade]

That would be everything at 1%

[gloomy palm]

o

[ashen girder]

It's basically continuous from one end to the other.

[gloomy palm]

i see

the craft time decreases at the same rate as the power increases?

[wind spade]

No

Craft time is linear, power usage is exponential

[gloomy palm]

is initial power usage dependent on the recipe and building?

[fierce cypress]

initial power usage is the building power consum at 100%

e.g. 4MW for a constructor

[gloomy palm]

i see

so i did the math

@wind spade wasn't kidding when he said 1% is the most efficient

blue line, higher is better

[thorn bane]

damn almost looks like
an exponential
mind=blown

[gloomy palm]

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878

the question is, what is the fastest speed you can use before it is no longer efficient

maybe 3%

4% is the first value where the coefficient is under 1

[wind spade]

why would over 1 not be efficient

[gloomy palm]

you start using more power per item per items per minute

i dont even know what that is , ima just call it the efficiency coefficient

[ashen girder]

Exponent equations drawing exponential lines? 🤯

[gloomy palm]

stahp it 🤣

[wintry aurora]

So, underclocked to 1% is EXTREMELY efficient? I don’t buy that.

[gloomy palm]

yeah, even 3% is better

[wintry aurora]

Efficiency seems to be a function of time, not actual efficiency there.

[gloomy palm]

essentially i dont understand what i did, but it seems like what i did was compare the power per item to the items per minute

the higher the value the better, because it means you're using less power per item per minute

[fierce ruin]

As long as we are all agreed this whole chart assumes one cares about power-per-item and isn't just building a nuke plant so they never have to consider power... 🤷‍♂️

[gloomy palm]

i just like making charts 😐

[wind spade]

you are reinventing a wheel

[gloomy palm]

🥺

[fierce ruin]

Enjoy making charts! I would never take that away from you.
But I haven't factored power as a thing since U1 tbh. 🤷‍♂️

[gloomy palm]

me neither 😐

[wind spade]

yeah make what you want, just saying that there's pretty much no new conclusion you can make

[gloomy palm]

is it not relevant that 3% has a coefficient above 1?

[wind spade]

it doesn't

[fierce ruin]

Numbers being clean is my number 1, then resource efficiency.

[gloomy palm]

doesn't it mean coefficients below 1 are less efficient than the baseline

[wind spade]

the coefficient decreases steadily from 1% to 250%

what kind of efficiency are we talking about?

power? yes, more buildings = more power efficient

[gloomy palm]

but this is on a linear scale, you can still see that it's not linear

[wind spade]

it's not linear, but it increases / decreases over time (depending on which line are we talking about)

there's no spot where it stops decreasing and starts increasing (or vice versa)

[wind spade]

so depending on what you're looking for, either 1% or 250% will always be best

[wind spade]

yeah and how is 3% better than 1% here?

[gloomy palm]

nonon i said that 3% is still a coefficient which has a gain over loss

1% is still much better than 3%

[wind spade]

the coefficient being larger than 1 doesn't mean anything specific

[gloomy palm]

hmm

it doesn't mean you're saving power?

because i'd imagine if it were below 1 then that means you're losing power

[wind spade]

yes, you're saving power. But you're saving more power with less clock speed.

no, you're not losing power with 3% clock speed

[gloomy palm]

4%

[wind spade]

99% clock speed is still saved power over 100% clock speed

[gloomy palm]

yeah

[wind spade]

less clock speed = more power save

but there's no magic sweet 4% spot or anything like that

[thorn bane]

doesnt your coefficeint depend on the initial power?

[gloomy palm]

but im talking about saving power per item

[gloomy palm]

ye

[thorn bane]

so with an assembler its 4 instead of 1?

[gloomy palm]

i dont know, what's the initial power of that

[thorn bane]

oh wow i thought it was 4
its 3.75 as much as a constructor

15 instead of 4

[gloomy palm]

and how many items per minute

at 100%

[thorn bane]

depends on the recipe?

[wind spade]

that doesn't matter really. You can always just multiply everything by that number, ratios won't change

[gloomy palm]

yeah

unless they messed up a recipe somewhere

could run every recipe through my spreadsheet to see if there's a ratio change 😄

[wind spade]

how would it be possible to mess up a recipe

[near zenith]

dude, i feel the beginning of this sentence in my soul. "I have no idea what this is doing, but it's certainly doing SOMETHING" this speaks to me

[gloomy palm]

xD

[near zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/what-do-they-mean-random-numbers-gif-10654449

[wind spade]

any ratio you can come up with goes either down or up with clock speed.

[gloomy palm]

well i mean, it just looks like it generally makes sense and corroborates what greeny said, so i guess it's right

[near zenith]

but like... that's just a curve of power per minute power*minutes/items^2 (im bad at math =()?

i'm confused as to the original goal

[wind spade]

as I said, you can make the graphs as you want, but there's no real new sweet spot that you can find, it's either 1% or 250%

[gloomy palm]

ya

why 250% tho

it has the worst efficiency per item

[ashen girder]

Because that's the most you can do..

[wind spade]

if you're looking at lowest space/amount of machines

[gloomy palm]

ohhh

[thorn bane]

and least building time

[gloomy palm]

2500 buildings at 1% 🥺

so uhhh

what did we learn today 😄

[wind spade]

nothing new

[near zenith]

don't drink and graph?

[gloomy palm]

agreed

[wintry aurora]

You've been drunk this whole time?

The last hour anyway.

Or maybe that wasn't literal.

[gloomy palm]

why does it require 16MJ for one iron rod, but only 4MW at 100%?

what is the 4MW value?

are joules and watts interchangeable

is the total power a building uses 4+16?

[wind spade]

no

[wind spade]

no

1MW = 1MJ over 1s

[gloomy palm]

ah

P = V * A

[wind spade]

not sure what are those letters really

[gloomy palm]

.-. hm

power (Watts) = volts x ampere

[wind spade]

you can't just use unit names and combine it with SI names

[gloomy palm]

.-. that how i learn in school

[wind spade]

P = E / t

for your thing it would be P = V * I, but we don't have that ingame

V = voltage, I = electric current

[gloomy palm]

P = W/t

[wind spade]

what's W

[gloomy palm]

P = U * I

[near zenith]

P = deltaE / t if you wanna be fancy about it

[gloomy palm]

P = I^2 * R

[near zenith]

but still, we digress

[gloomy palm]

P = U^2/R

[wind spade]

P = power
E = energy
t = time
V = voltage
I = electircal current
use proper letters, otherwise it makes no sense

[gloomy palm]

U is volts

[wind spade]

V is voltage

[near zenith]

negatory

U is potential energy if anything

[ashen girder]

The I in current being silent and all. 😁

[gloomy palm]

P is watts

[wind spade]

P is power

[ashen girder]

Currient?

[wind spade]

watt is unit of power

[near zenith]

who the hell is teaching you basic physics dude, we're going to need to have a chat with them about nomenclature

[wind spade]

but P is not watts

[gloomy palm]

oh looks like i have the greek symbols

[ashen girder]

Are... Are you Greek?

[wind spade]

the one on the left is the letter that's used to define what we are talking about. The one on the right is the unit of said thing. You can't mix the two letters

[gloomy palm]

so i guess smh at this then

[ashen girder]

Looks Greek to me. 😂

[gloomy palm]

hmm yes

[wind spade]

in satisfactory (also IRL):
P (power) = E (energy) / t (time)
in units:
1 W (Watt) = 1 J (Joule) / 1 s (second)

no other combination is "correct"

so you can't do W = E/t

or anything like that

because then you're mixing units with non-units

[gloomy palm]

this is the problem with having learned electrical in greek, all my equations knowledges are messed up 😐

[ashen girder]

Weight = Energy / time. 😁

[wind spade]

is W even weight?

[gloomy palm]

weight is kg

[ashen girder]

According to Wikipedia.

It's also Work which is Joules too. 🤔🤔

[sly dune]

i just found this, the {W} is work

[wind spade]

according to wikipedia, symbol for mass is m

[wind spade]

that's unit, not it's symbol

[ashen girder]

And the symbol for weight is W....

[wind spade]

I thought you were talking about mass, mb

[gloomy palm]

i think weight is measured in newtons

[ashen girder]

I said weight though. 😂😂

[gloomy palm]

if you want to lose weight, go to the moon

[sly dune]

isnt that force_

[ashen girder]

Weight is force..

[gloomy palm]

your weight is the force dragging you to earth by gravity

[wind spade]

a lot of people talk about "weight" and mean "mass" 🤷‍♂️

[ashen girder]

Wouldn't've been a very good joke then.

[gloomy palm]

websites that do this need to grow up

[wind spade]

fair. Just saying that a lot of people say "weight" and they mean "that thing that's measured in kg" 🤷‍♂️

[gloomy palm]

ye, imagine measuring if you lost mass by actually sitting in a tub and measuring the volume displacement

[ashen girder]

Conveniently, I measure it in pounds. 😁

[wind spade]

for example... satisfactory wiki

[ashen girder]

Are tonnes a unit of mass?

[gloomy palm]

ye

[wind spade]

I assume those are metric tonnes, so 1t = 1000kg

[gloomy palm]

question

why do we need to know the weight of trains in the game

[gloomy palm]

never heard of dalton 😐

[wind spade]

it's useful if you don't want to calculate with 10^-27 🤷‍♂️

[near zenith]

huh, TIL the AMU has an actual name

[gloomy palm]

arithmetic multiplier unit

[gloomy palm]

what is the name

[near zenith]

the dalton

[gloomy palm]

is this used in carbon dating or such

[near zenith]

the atomic mass unit is what i know of as the "one twelth of a carbon atom"

more a cheap measure of proton mass for calculations

[gloomy palm]

😐

🥺

😭

🥺

😐

[wind spade]

please stop spam

[near zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/big-hero6-baymax-there-there-patting-head-pat-head-gif-4086973

[gloomy palm]

rise up against spam

spam is polluting the earth

[wind spade]

also this channel

[gloomy palm]

my graphs was doing that already

[wind spade]

they were at least vaguely on topic, not like 5 emojis

[gloomy palm]

the 5 emojis were essential to the normal functioning of this math and meta member

*emoji *

[gloomy palm]

what do you mean vaguely 🤨

[ashen girder]

👋

[wind spade]

Mathematical analysis of alternate recipes

[pliant current]

how much do you guys prioritise efficiency in your factories?
do you guys try and make sure you only put in as much as you're using or do you just cram it full until it works?

[wind spade]

depends which kind of efficiency

[pliant current]

i mean, making sure that there is no excess

everything you put in is used to make the products with no remaining raw resources

i mean, i prioritised making things efficient in the factory i designed to automate smart plates for phase 1

but it was a bit tiring and took a while

working backwards that is

and the moment you add more resources to it, you begin to overflow with the raw resources

do you guys just let that happen or do you rebuild to accommodate for the new resources?

or just add a new section to the factory?

[wind spade]

I usually have a factory that produces final product. I don't chain factories, always start from raw resources and end with a product that goes to a storage

[ashen girder]

I, personally, don't find this valuable.

[glacial shadow]

what was the ratio of coal gens to water?

[ashen girder]

3:8

[glacial shadow]

legend, cheers

[river night]

I also build satellite factories, whenever I plan one, I balance between the output I want and the resources available, so that I will use resources efficiently, but that doesn't mean its always all used up perfectly, because if you build something complex that needs a lot of different resources, its impossible to use all of them 100% in such a setup (often will have iron left over for example because another more precious resources is the limiting factor). And once such a factory is done, its done. If I happen to need more of any of those products, I just make a new factory somewhere else

[ashen girder]

Or 2:13 if you're like me.

[magic island]

i keep my factories largely modular

so, as the simplest example, making mats for myself, i have a setup for iron plates (a single constructor), and a setup for reinforced iron plates next to it (assembler and multiple constructors). the first setup doesn't feed the second, they're just separate and have their own power switches

so setting up new manufacturing for new items is a matter of building more, not often altering the existing ones

[fierce ruin]

I prefer smaller factories and lots of transport (more fun for me setting up transport than making yet another system of constructors and belts). Otherwise, lots of relatively small factories, typically getting inputs from a few very scalable bigger ones (like steel, aluminium, or oscillators late-game)

[thorn bane]

#TeamMainBus

[magic island]

it's trickier to get modular with more advanced parts, though. building an entire computer factory, and then also building ANOTHER computer factory to be part of your supercomputer factory... that's a bit ugh, so I'll bundle them together as one facility that makes both (and/or more)

[fierce ruin]

smaller factories approach also had me use nearly every alt recipe once in a while

as some rare ones do really well in a particular local setup

[river night]

these high-end composite parts like supercomputer, i'll usually just make at my central storage area, where all the computers etc arrive, and I just need a manufacturer to put it all together

especially for super computer, you dont need that many of them, that one manufacturer is typically enough even

[fierce ruin]

depends on how exactly you're doing that - I mean, stuff like crystal computers is dead easy to make, so if you have a big oscillators factory already built, computers stop being complex to make

[magic island]

sure, but even then, that's tying in the computer factory with the oscillator factory, so one is dependent on the other.

which works! but it's different from a fully modular setup where you could, ie, switch off the production for one part without affecting the others

[river night]

fully modular either means you build everything in triplicate, or you dont really build anything big until you have progressed through all the tiers already though

or you try to plan way ahead for things you cant build for a long time to come, which in my experience just never works out 😄

[fierce ruin]

also it means there's still a lot of transportation going on, but on the raw resources rather than intermediary products

[thorn bane]

modular things such as switch from iron rods to steel rods is very easy using stuff like a bus of trains
you simply switch the inputs

[stark bronze]

Train busses? Now that's innovation

Apart from the fact that stations take up 1% of the entire fucking map

[gloomy gyro]

Just spent like over a week building a setup for 30 nuclear plants from start to finish, just to watch the 5 splitters not work 😭

[wintry aurora]

1%, what? I get that they're big, but not that big. Unless you mean sheer number or something.

[gloomy gyro]

Ok, I lied the 5 splitters work, just hard to tell with something you're only making 6 of per min. I had a blender not dumping sulfuric acid and it ruined the perfection

[slate moth]

so correct me if im wrong, but through trial and error i understood that i cant just supply my 64 coal generators with 24 water extractors because its 1 to 1 ration and now i need to adjust to the fact that each generator need 50 water per minute to actually saturate the line so i will expand it to 72 gens to 30 water extractors. Please tell me im right im about to expand it tomorrow

[fierce ruin]

Each generator needs 45 per minute.
So that is "correcting you".

[slate moth]

Yea thats how i calculated it right now, but it doesnt keep my generators running smoothly, and i think it's because i have mk2 pipes feeding 13 generators and giving excess 15(in theory) to the 14th gen and thats how i got them set up, but maybe fluid system in this game doesnt like it

[fierce ruin]

Pipes don't work like conveyors so you will never precisely have any amount going where you want it.
You have to regard the system as a whole.

[gloomy gyro]

Fluid systems don't like to be max flow rate unfortunately. best way is to do 8 coal gens to 3 water extractors with a mk2 pipe and you'll never have to worry about not having enough pipe capacity, and the water will cleanly run the generators

[wintry aurora]

And yet the valves only work properly on full pipes.

[gloomy gyro]

of course

[fierce ruin]

Unsure what you mean?
I always slightly over produce because full pipes are happy pipes.

[gloomy gyro]

I've always been told to not to expect 600/min out of a mk2 pipe, it only reliably outputs more like 570

[fierce ruin]

Flow rate and pipe fullness are different entities for one.

Also yes, mk2s don't behave at max flow rate.

[gloomy gyro]

Yeah, I guess, I didn't mean fullness, but flow

[fierce ruin]

Which is why if I need 600 I just use 2 mk1s.

[fierce ruin]

But you said "full" 😭

[gloomy gyro]

usually the amount of fluid in a pipe doesn't mean as much to me as the flow rate so I don't even think about that, sorry

[fierce ruin]

Amount in pipe affects things like valves. So it is a good thing to consider. 🤷‍♂️

[azure gust]

I'm still waffling on my 12x Blender + 60x Packager vs. 20x Refinery + 50x Packager for making packaged fuel

the second is a fair bit less power, and won't require any pumps either, but refineries are bloody huge

[slate moth]

Ok got a lot of things to think throu for tomorrow, since i clearly dont understand everything about fluids, awesome

Thanks for help everyone

[shadow plaza]

I have a m2 miner on a pure coal node, it makes 240 p/m and I need 75 p/m. I would like to split it and keep the unused coal for something else. How would I do it?

[azure gust]

put a splitter on it?

[shadow plaza]

yea but it would split it evenly

[azure gust]

and your 75/min line will eventually saturate and everything will go into the other line

[shadow plaza]

example?

[gloomy gyro]

So you send 120 to the left and 120 to the right

and the 75 side fills up because you're overflowing it

once it's full, any excess will go through the other side of the splitter so you'll get 75 from the left and the rest to the other one

[shadow plaza]

ok

[shadow plaza]

so rn I need the 75 p/m coal for steel

so once the floundry fill up

it would just fill the unused line up?

[azure gust]

unless you're limiting yourself to 120/min belts, in which case your miner will start being idle because it's blocked by the belts

[shadow plaza]

I can make 270 belts

would i have to use 240 belts through out the whole build tho?

[gloomy gyro]

Get your coal going and make mk3 belts

[shadow plaza]

I have another set up for beams

[gloomy gyro]

you'll need mk3 on everything but the line going to your steel

since that will never have more than 120/min

[shadow plaza]

aight

so I can just use 120 belts for the 75 p/m line

[shadow plaza]

Could I just sink the unused line until I need to produce something else later?

[gloomy gyro]

I mean sure, you can always do that

[shadow plaza]

cool thanks

[gloomy gyro]

I'd make more coal gens or bump up steel production though

[shadow plaza]

I dont need any more coal gens at the moment

Im probs gonna have to make another 600 mw coal set up cause I may run out of power by the time to getting fuel power plant

[ashen girder]

If you're gonna do that, I'd suggest getting smart splitters and using one.

[gloomy gyro]

yeah smart splitter sinks are great. Playing on a persistent world, (not dedicated server, just always up) we've got smart splitter sinks for almost everything we make. Fill up a couple industrial storages so you always have a stash to grab, and once they're full, it'll send the rest to the sink.

Just need to set one leg to "overflow" and it'll do that

[strange hedge]

@wind spade With your helpful tools, I managed to set up a big factory for reinforced iron plate. It have been very interesting lesson along with setting up both mainfold and balancer. I spend most of time designing the balancer carefully. You can see how complicated it start to get. As shown in the screenshot, that was only the beginning, it get more complicated as I reach toward the final steps.

By the way, I have an idea for your SFTools project, after seeing how many mods are out there. So here is an idea, what if you add a feature where you can upload a txt files that read add-on machines and take account of that. For example, for vanilla SF, I use SFtoosl regularly. However, for modded version, I would upload the notepad files containing of each factories created by mods, then SFtool takes it into the calculation.

That way the community can create .txt files to be used with SFTool.

[wind spade]

For the far future, I plan to have mod support and work together with mod community to make a way for them to add their mods to my tools

[strange hedge]

That is noted. 🙂

[iron prairie]

So, something I noticed almost completely on accident building up nuclear power.

1. My plan for nuclear power involves a steel/iron wire foundry at the Blue Crater.
2. While it uses a lot of steel pipes... it only needs them for stators (https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=Dufprw5SWkdfriegS4py)
3. Ergo, I can cut down heavily on the number of train cars needed to haul the output to the main plant in the swamp by making stators at the Blue Crater. 1100 steel pipes and 2928 wire becomes a much more easily transported 366 stators, saving at least two freight cars.

I find it notable courtesy of how I usually wouldn't think of transporting a part as advanced as stators via train car; I'd be much more likely to transport the steel pipes and wire if I hadn't noticed "huh, that's funny, I literally only use pipes for stators here".

[river night]

thats something one should always consider before shipping something high volume like wire, or any product .. what do i need it for, and can i make it less volume in an easy step?

i tend to not ship anything below like tier 4 or such

[fierce ruin]

that's why I typically don't haul pipes, ore, or ingots (aluminium/copper being the exception as it typically needs to be hauled closer to each other anyway)

it's usually simpler to haul stators (and control rods too, by the way, easier to have it separate from nukes, as they have other notable uses)

[near zenith]

@wind spade is this just a weird fluke of the linear programming that it would find a path which creates a byproduct which has no use in the overall scheme, because it doesn't want to make less steel beams?

[wintry aurora]

You probably should link the plan so Greeny can look at the whole thing.

[near zenith]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=CPlDRUnvLD1x7tiJKIh5

i'm thinking the number of inputs/outputs i'm putting on the thing are causing the hiccup

but like... whytho

[oblique hollow]

It shouldnt make those at all but i guess you maximized something?

Maximize is very odd in that it doesnt care at all how it gets to an end result

[median spindle]

#satisfactory-experimental message

Max Uranium (that I can be bothered to get)
When building nuclear power plants, you'll realise there's a very limited amount of uranium:
• 3 normal nodes
• 1 impure node (in space more or less)

because for a uranium fuel rod factory, it takes 50/min for 1 manufacturer to work at 100% efficiency
and so if 1 manufacturer can power 2
1800 ÷ 50 x 2 = 90

Water
This one's only a few sentences long. But to put it basic, each power plant requires 300units of water/min and since I have 90 nuclear power plants
300 x 90 = 27000units of water/min total

and since each water extractor at 100% extracts at a rate of 120units of water/min
27000 ÷ 120 = 225

alternatively, you could find out that nuclear power plant : water extractor ratio is 2:5, then you could do
5 x 45 = 225

Also I'm dumb so I didn't use satisfactory tools for that, just a caculator
mafs

[near zenith]

no maximize used, numbers are tooled for using one normal uranium node and a pure/normal sulfur node, and some inputs from other factories

[median spindle]

almost forgot

since a pipe MK.II can only transport 600units/min max, I have to have 5 water extractors per pipe, hence the insane amts of pipes instead of merging them

[oblique hollow]

It probably has no idea what to do with those other inputs

If it only needs like 5 out of 6 thingies it will do whatever it feels like with the rest

[near zenith]

yea, the problem is without the other inputs specified, i have to do a hell of a lot more work sussing out which specific things are needed in the main factory

[median spindle]

I like how u 2 are chatting then I just drop an entire goddamn page about water extraction for an immense nuclear power station

[wintry aurora]

How is the impure node in space?

[near zenith]

you could also overclock your nuc's to 250%, have them use 600/plant, and then oc your water extractors to 250%, and have 2 oc'd extractors to each plant, and cut your total plant numbers down to 45

[median spindle]

eh, I'm trying to keep power shards at an all time low

[thorn bane]

if youre determined to set this up sure but max uranium is like max copper or max iron in my opinion
its fine to go for less 🙂

[near zenith]

yea, there's also the "what are you going to use 585 GW of power for" problem

[median spindle]

hypertube cannons
a lot of hypertube cannons

and other projects in the future

[thorn bane]

thats like 60,000 hyper tube entrances
you can fly to the moon with that 🙂

[median spindle]

also I just did the math, 225 GW of energy when it starts going

of course water is only the tutorial battle

the real battle is nuclear fuel rods

[thorn bane]

remember ficsit does not (make) waste
sink your rods

[median spindle]

ik

already did the math for that
fking 30 particle accelerators

[river night]

sinking perfectly good power capacity is the biggest waste though!

[median spindle]

but it comes at the price of having "renewable" energy, if you can call it that

I'm making my design a lot like I'mKibits'

but not copying it, just taking inspiration

gimme a few mins and I'll run over and take a screenie (I'm in the middle of the cherry forest and it's at the west ocean)

[thorn bane]

i went with 40 nukes since that was way more power than i needed

[median spindle]

I mean go big or go home for me

[thorn bane]

nah fuck that id rather have fps
i hated playing at the end with 20 fps

[median spindle]

just how CPU consuming are active nukes?

fuck 1 sec blue alpha

[thorn bane]

nothing
its what you do with the power xD

pretty sure its least machines/power
atleast if you include the generators aswell

[wintry aurora]

Heh, which is why you should AFK in a safe place.

[median spindle]

ffs I died, gimme a min to restart bc my game crashes when I try to load a save while in 1

[wintry aurora]

I've gotten killed a few times when I thought I was in a safe spot though.

[median spindle]

I mean I ran into 3 alphas, had no jetpack fuel, and accidentally bhopped off 2 cliffs

I ran a damn gauntlet

[wintry aurora]

Ouch.

[wind spade]

it's probably because input is considered weightless, so it just tries to make use of it as much as possible

I'll think about how to solve this

maybe giving input a weight of something like 1e-10

[near zenith]

okiedokes, figured it was a odd blip 🙂

[median spindle]

it's so hard to get a spot where u can see the whole thing but the water extractors aren't despawned

that's how large it is

[near zenith]

if i manually disable versatile frameworks it does go back to spitting out the path i was expecting

[median spindle]

finally got a decent angle, this is as good as it gets

so the way I've set it up is there's a space infront of each 2 rows of nuclear power plant, this is where the uranium fuel rod factories will go

and the factory "sectors" are divided by the pipelines leading into the rows of nuclear power plants

so basically imma make a basic design of a uranium fuel rod factory and copy it 45 times

[vast jungle]

"and copy it 45 times"... want to break ImKibitz 1 million Waste problem? 😉

[timber sparrow]

So yeah... 50 fuel generators to consume all the residue from 20 rubber and 20 plastic refineries??

[low yoke]

just made a 640 p/min wet concrete set up

[short holly]

moist

[rugged fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/beautifully-moist-gif-23635729

[gloomy palm]

makes me wonder how it is you arrived at the plan to have the nukes near the water but not surrounding the water extractors

nuke, extractor extractor, nuke, extractor extractor, nuke etc

[median spindle]

bc I'm dumb

that's why

[median spindle]

yea I'm aware

[wintry aurora]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/FICSMAS#Crafting Hm, why is the power consumption in MJ/item?

[gloomy palm]

well i dont think anything is dumb if it works

you could have built it any way you like, i was just wondering your thought process

[median spindle]

I mean the design isn't dumb it's me as a person

[gloomy palm]

🥺 don say that

[median spindle]

also just wondering, how the hell am I gonna do a decent train, I've already got a great start for a uranium one

1 sec

[gloomy palm]

you might wanna begin by determining how many resources you will need per roundtrip

[median spindle]

yea I'm just uploading my save to SCIM, will show a screenie in a sec

[gloomy palm]

a screenie :3

[median spindle]

screenshot whatever u wanna call it

[gloomy palm]

screenaroonies

screeghetti 🍝

[median spindle]

this is the railway so far, only goes to 1 uranium node of 3

oh also the railways don't intersect, they're at very different y levels

(please ignore my cancerous plastic factory in the middle top)

[cinder silo]

I built my nukes further south of there 😄 very much a work in progress because I still lack stators & AI limiters.

[median spindle]

holy shit

yea I'm not the best at this game, it's quite easy to tell that

omfg I need to up my game

good christ

[cinder silo]

This is my control rod building

[gloomy palm]

mhmmm

[gloomy palm]

pretty architecture

[gloomy palm]

very neat

[median spindle]

fk it I'm demolishing my old one and starting over

it's dog sh*t lmao

[gloomy palm]

well the thing is

everyone will start over at some point

just play small and building up to larger projects later

[cinder silo]

Definitely, and each time carrying over lessons from earlier playthroughs.

[gloomy palm]

egg

xactly

[cinder silo]

I don't move uranium by train though, the concentrations of uranium at the stations and the train itself create massive hotspots, It's less dangerous just belting it, you can be within 8-16 feet of the belts and barley get a chest x-ray.

[median spindle]

I mean, how bad is it?

[cinder silo]

I did give a train station a go and this was the result

[median spindle]

that isn't too bad

[cinder silo]

The picture in picture at the bottom right is the way lesser radiation at the mine.

[median spindle]

I mean, if the radiation is coming from the train station, then why isn't it centred around it?

[cinder silo]

This room processes all the worlds uranium, and even this isn't even 1/5th as radioactive as the train station managed to get.

Moving radioactive things via train imho isn't a good idea because the storage bins fill up creating giant hot spots between train journeys.

[median spindle]

also all of it? even the impure node?

[cinder silo]

Even the impure node.

[median spindle]

dayum

[cinder silo]

2100 uranium,

[median spindle]

nice

[cinder silo]

Heres the impure nodes mine 😄

[wintry aurora]

How would you balance something 3/4? I'm asking because I'm prepping for the iron and copper ornaments, of which I'm doing 6 foundries each, which comes out to 12 smelters for red and 9 for blue (which LCD to 3/4, well, 4/3 in the order I'm writing this), but I'm not sure how to balance them because while the usage of iron and copper ornaments is equal, the production line certainly isn't.

[median spindle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/b0bzq3/i_made_a_book_of_balancers_all_possibilities_up/

[cinder silo]

I'm not great with balancing since I manifold everything.

[wintry aurora]

Thanks.

Actually, I meant belt balnce, not 3 in, 4 out.

[cinder silo]

This is the plan of that room for uranium processing, it's pretty vertical, the refineries are above it and water extractors are above those, only the concrete to the left is in isolation.

[wintry aurora]

Maybe I shoulda said load balancer.

[cinder silo]

I haven't even tried to load balance since my first save, those constructs always took up a ton of space when I found inline split/merge much simpler.

[wintry aurora]

I guess then.

[rich chasm]

How did you get this kind of map ?

[cinder silo]

When it doesn't freeze or outright error on loading, the satisfactory calculator interactive map (Scim) https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

[rich chasm]

OMG THANKS MAN

❤️

[cinder silo]

It's a handy tool to see the lay of the land, I find it damned slow to load my save though.

[rich chasm]

Maybe it's your connection, I don't know XD

[cinder silo]

Very specific fault since everything else including 4k streaming seems to work v0v.

[rich chasm]

😂

[gloomy palm]

that's cool as heck

do you do architecture as a major or something lol

[cinder silo]

Nope 🙂

[gloomy palm]

you could 🤣

how do you get your inspiration

how do you plan things to such level of detail

how do you *

[ashen girder]

Probably the Metropolis film. 😏

[cinder silo]

Good question, I don't have much of an answer though because I honestly don't know.

[gloomy palm]

you have

the touch ✨

[cinder silo]

I often find myself spotting even the small details that don't look right to me, such as the conveyor lifts looking unsupported when reaching up to a land bridge.

[short holly]

you would hate my factory of flying manifolds 😐

[cinder silo]

There are some who hate that I build beltways under the world, we each do things our own way 🙂

[short holly]

with the new conveyor holes etc i now do a lot of 'ceiling' or underground work. did a bit before, but it wasn't very clean

[cinder silo]

Work in progress limestone shaft for the nuclear industry, I still need to add quite a lot to consider it done but my mine shafts are usually pretty clean, even with the whole going under the world through the ground thing.

[gloomy palm]

oh i see

[cinder silo]

Four limestone, two iron and a pure coal being sent below the world.

[gloomy palm]

how do you spend time on aesthetics and structure before you know what your factory plan should include, or do you use external tools to plan the factory first before that, or do you just building as you go along and change everything if it becomes necessary to?

[cinder silo]

The aesthetics get added on last because I have a bad habit of expanding on my intitial profile which changes the floorplan a lot.

[gloomy palm]

hmm you're using fancy architecture terms o_O

what do you mean by profile

[cinder silo]

Profile as in the initial design of the factory input and output , problem with it is sometimes mission creep, when I decide that structure needs to do more like outputs to an extra facility.

[gloomy palm]

😮

[cinder silo]

More recently my concrete plant for the nuclear setup expanded by 200% because I decided to use one place for uranium fuel AND plutonium processing, because I was far along with the job it meant a fairly big demolition.

[gloomy palm]

owh

[cinder silo]

These things happen, one building for the job is cleaner than several all doing the same thing.

[gloomy palm]

i see

[cinder silo]

The mess happened because I didn't look far enough down the production chain beforehand and see the extra concrete usage, same with control rods.

[gloomy palm]

yeahhhh

i also didn't know what i needed aluminum for until i got into nuclear

i tried to hold out as far as i could without using aluminum or oil but then i needed them

[cinder silo]

Oil can be quite the rabbit hole , 1800 oil? doesn't seem much, just two pure & two normal , makes 4000 turbo fuel, yeaaaaahhh , that feeds 888 power generators and the infrastructure for it all is gigantic.

[gloomy palm]

😮

i got coal gens running stuff 😐

and then 3 nukes

plus geo

[cinder silo]

The inside of one of this games largest turbo fuel plants because I let that 1800 oil get away from me.

The numbers seem harmless on paper, then you spend three weeks real time building it out, the scale starts to sink in then.

[gloomy palm]

🤣 my god

[wintry aurora]

Tried it in one of the planners?

[cinder silo]

That one I built on the fly, the project really got out of hand quickly.

Thats the map of the facility.

[gloomy palm]

pretty sure you should be working in the factory architecture industry xD

[wintry aurora]

Must be mulltilevel as that looks compact for 888.

[wind shoal]

Question, is it better to haul iron ore to a central location to smelt it and then ship it out to other satellite warehouses for use, or should I smelt on site and ship out to satellite warehouses?

[cinder silo]

It is on three levels overall, oil & water at the water level , refineries & gens are on the top two floors.

[wind shoal]

I was kinda thinking of trying to have single-purpose hubs

you know, smelt ore here, make screws here, etc..

[wintry aurora]

Smelting on site might be better due to the ore to ingot ratios.

[cinder silo]

It definitely doesn't look very compact when trying to tour the place though, the draw distance ends before the plant does..

[wind shoal]

ok, what about smelting on site and then shipping ingots to a central location for distrobution?

noice...ok cool

[wintry aurora]

That's basically the implication?

[gloomy palm]

there's some exception to the rule

steel needs raw ores from separate nodes, i.e. coal+iron

which means you can't make them at the site of any one node

[wintry aurora]

Coal, not copper. nudge

[gloomy palm]

ehhem , fixed

[wind shoal]

true

[gloomy palm]

i opted for the less efficient route and shipped all my raw resources to a central location

[wind shoal]

I guess I'll have to ship iron ore and coal to a central location for steel

[wintry aurora]

There's some spots where that's possible though, like the western area of Northern Forest and there's so much iron that there's usually some iron close by to wherever coal is. But yea, it may not always be possible.

[gloomy palm]

yeah but i forget if there are other exception

depends on the recipes

[cinder silo]

Leave room for regular iron smelters in case you unlock solid steel, you quite literally get 50% more steel ingots for the same resources in for the added step of smelting iron ingots then foundry.

[gloomy palm]

it looks awesome tho

[wind shoal]

What should I pick?

[gloomy palm]

greeny might be able to help with that 🙃

[wind shoal]

I'm thinking the iron alloy

[wintry aurora]

Pure caterium is useful I guess. Haven't used pure quartz yet.

Mainly just haven't needed to yet.

[gloomy palm]

i never really paid much attention to the efficiency of recipes until recently, and even then it's relative to what you doing

[wind shoal]

yeah, i think the caterium is probably more useful

[wind spade]

decide which one will be most useful to you 😉

[cinder silo]

Pure quartz can help also if you're going mad on crystal oscillators for any reason.

[gloomy palm]

see i knew you could help, greeny 👍

[wind spade]

first increases crystal yield, second increases caterium yield, third increases iron yield at the cost of extra copper

[gloomy palm]

can never have enough oscillators

[cinder silo]

I find the increase in iron less useful than the other two, it's just so abundant.

[wind spade]

it's not about iron being abundant on the map, but locally

if you used all iron nodes near your factory and have 3 copper nodes unused, you can use them to boost iron, instead of transporting extra iron from other locations

[gloomy palm]

it is indeed quite difficult to physically travel to every node and collect all the resources on the map

[cinder silo]

True, I have a habit of running epic beltways either via tunnel or land bridge so "anywhere on the map" to me IS local.

[gloomy palm]

what is a tunnel

[cinder silo]

A passage underground.

[gloomy palm]

how do you ..

wow that is fancy

you absolutely sure you never were an architect? my goodness 😅

give this man a medal

[cinder silo]

The chief method of going under the ground

[gloomy palm]

so you see the ground clipping for a moment as you pass through it ?

[cinder silo]

You do need to take any terrain with you though because there is nothing but the void down there 😛

[gloomy palm]

😮

how do you get down there in the first place to build something

[cinder silo]

You can clip a ramp in to the ground, then hyper tube on to it. as long as you have a power point and tube ring accessible from both sides you're golden.

[gloomy palm]

o_O

would anyone say it's cheating to go below the map

[frosty owl]

Some do

[gloomy palm]

in my opinion i see no harm in building the entire factory under the map

it would just be an underground bunker

[cinder silo]

Some who do use a save editor v0v , I consider THAT to be cheating, bashing through the ground is just done in-game even if it isn't entirely what the game has in mind, it isn't blocked.

[frosty owl]

There is very much real harm if one goes too far down

[gloomy palm]

we can call those the radiation decks

and send all the nuclear waste down where the pioneer can't get to anyway

[cinder silo]

My uranium belt tunnels are on the Z axis baseline, just 1m above the damage zone.

[median spindle]

the water extractors don't grid snap properly and it's driving me mad

[gloomy palm]

does it not let you build lower than the damage zone?

[cinder silo]

Don't do that, better to reprocess and sink than store nuclear waste.

[gloomy palm]

hold down Ctrl before placing

[median spindle]

ik

still doesn't work

[cinder silo]

The first water processor doesn't snap, only subsequent ones do, and they snap to the first.

[median spindle]

it doesn't snap to the foundations and so I have to spend 10 mins making sure the water extractors fit on a perfect scale

[gloomy palm]

yeah i'm sinking plutonium fuel rods, but i was just responding to the message about the damage zone not being explainable if you build too far down, so i said as a joke you can explain the damage zone by making it the radiation zone

"oh you can't go down there,you'll die"

it adds an element of realism to building under the map, you see

[cinder silo]

My uranium processing to produce encased cells is under the map, in fact it's under the central uranium mine with all the others belted to that spot.

[gloomy palm]

ah

well yeah, i would perhaps avoid the waste in the game by sinking plutonium fuel rods either way because it just bloats the save

[median spindle]

I had an idea and idk why my smol brain didn't think of it before, just build out with water extractors and dismantle the ones leftover

[cinder silo]

I know what you mean, I demolished a huge nuclear tomb before it was even used because I decided to go with waste processing instead, that place took me hours to take down.

[gloomy palm]

im sorry to hear that

[median spindle]

relatable, I'm in the process rn

[cinder silo]

don't be, at least I didn't have several million nuclear waste reminding me that I had an unsustainable power gen 😄

[gloomy palm]

would've been simple to do in SCIM 🥺

you adjust the altitude slider and then mass delete everything

[cinder silo]

That comes back to the whole save editing thing that I avoid though.

[gloomy palm]

mhmm

i would argue its alright to undo mistakes in the same way as you could have just loaded an older save

it's giving yourself an advantage in the gameplay progression which is intrinsically cheating

the game wouldn't have given you the option to load older saves if it didn't want you to have an easy way to undo mistakes

[median spindle]

I've only used SCIM save editing once and it was bc I needed like 70k cable and all my cable storages were empty, but it was for a project I never did so I binned it all so technically I never cheated, well, never took advantage of it anyway

[cinder silo]

The pile of materials from 10,000 industrial cans & the connecting belts, walls and frames went in to a sink.

[gloomy palm]

are you telling me you made the entire factory from the tutorial onwards without mods or help

you're actually making concrete to build foundations?

[cinder silo]

This isn't my first play through, and this one has been my active save since update 3.

[gloomy palm]

?_?

someone actually playing the game as it was intended

[cinder silo]

Making concrete isn't exactly difficult, by the time I use what I have on me, the industrial can nearby is refilled.

[tropic hawk]

all in favor of making it so at least the EA version only gets updates at most once a week, Please react to a checkmark to this post: ✅

[swift holly]

Wait.... Am I playing the game wrong? 😂 😂

[gloomy palm]

i made everything free because i play creative mode 😅 and i still suck at architecture despite that

[tropic hawk]

what, you don't wait until plastic to make foundations? xD

[cinder silo]

Huh? this game doesn't have a creative mode, a mod I guess?

[median spindle]

u guys make foundations?

[tropic hawk]

watch some build guides by ImKibitz and TotalXclipse. I have done it and it worked wonders (I also learned Redstone and building in minecrift from Grian and MumboJumbo)

[gloomy palm]

no save editing lets you disable costs from within the save file itself, it's one of the debug values baked into the save file which can be toggled

[tropic hawk]

Yep. Pak Utility is the most popular one

[cinder silo]

Too much risk of bricking a save for me for something so trivial as build materials that are already infinite imho.

[gloomy palm]

i always back up the save and then edit it, download and load it

if the loaded save works, i continue playing, if it doesn't, load the backup

you can do all that from within the game since it gives you the option to select what save you want to load

[cinder silo]

The only caveat with my build approach is there is a belt snaking from my plants to a can that I keep moving so I always have resources 😄

[gloomy palm]

save editing saved me hundreds of hours of grinding

im a creative player, not interested in grinding

[swift holly]

Meanwhile I play on a dedicated server, and it doesnt really support mods yet 😄

[gloomy palm]

im sure that would make for a cool timelapse

[cinder silo]

Watching a can get taken down and moved as I shift my construction site huh 😛

[gloomy palm]

yeah cuz it looks authentic

[mystic verge]

I need help with a belt splitting problem

idk if here is the right place

[gloomy palm]

it must be a big problem if it's splitting your belt

[swift holly]

8/8

[mystic verge]

i need to split one belt into 11 belts evenly

[gloomy palm]

well, a splitter has 3 outputs and one input

[wintry aurora]

I think you might be better off doing a manifold.....

[gloomy palm]

they asked for even splitting

[mystic verge]

would the manifold be balanced tho? i need it to be even for a production line

[wintry aurora]

I know, but it'll be complicated for sure.

[mystic verge]

complicated is no issue

[cinder silo]

It doesn't take much to keep advancing the can & belt, ripping it all out when I'm done building is the only real downside.

[wintry aurora]

As long as the input matches the demand, you don't neccesarily need a balancer.

[mystic verge]

well im trying to set up 22 constructors at 100% clock speed all making concrete

[cinder silo]

Shouldn't be an issue.

[mystic verge]

i just dont know how to split one belt into 11 belts evenly

[gloomy palm]

11 is one of those numbers

[cinder silo]

I just set one up thats got four rows of sixteen, the input for the place is just short of 708 per row.

[mystic verge]

if it were 20 constructors id be fine but 11 is an odd number

[wintry aurora]

You could like, do it branching style, probably not the most efficient, but....

[mystic verge]

EFFICENCY AT ALL COSTS

[wintry aurora]

And then loop the even number belt at the start.

Only idea I have, okay?

[mystic verge]

sorry didnt mean to shout

i dont really wanna do branching if i can avoid it

i wanna make sure all the hungry hungry constructors get enough to eat

[wintry aurora]

Really though, doing it branching type and then routing the extra belt back should be efficient.

[cinder silo]

Do you have mk5 belts?

[mystic verge]

ye

[wintry aurora]

I'd probably go with wet concrete if you have a nearby source of water rather than constructors.

[cinder silo]

Why not manifold it, two rows of 11, those belts will do the 495 easily enough.

[wintry aurora]

^

Just make sure the miner is pumping out at least that much.

[cinder silo]

495 each belt that is.

[mystic verge]

if i go manifold wont there be some constructors that get less than other? (im kinda new to manifolds and splitter arrays)

[gloomy palm]

is this the simplest way to divide by 11 evenly

Credit to : @wintry aurora for the suggestion

[cinder silo]

Unless doing max clocked, you're still look at merging some miners to get each feed belt to the 495 though,

[wintry aurora]

I don't know if it's the simplest or best, but that was my suggestion.

[gloomy palm]

yep

[mystic verge]

i have two MK2 miners both on pure nodes

[wintry aurora]

That'll be more than enough.

[cinder silo]

Should be 600 per miner if you have three power shards, you can adjust accordingly to the needs of the concrete plant.

[mystic verge]

@wintry aurora how can i be certain that the extra output on the right side of the array will route evenly?

i not really well versed on how mergers work

[cinder silo]

It'll fill up then the whole thing will output at full whack np, I exclusively manifold and haven't had any issues with ramp up and production yet.

[gloomy palm]

this is a manifold?

[cinder silo]

Thats pretty much it, some get more dense with parallel lines just like that but its generally the same.

[gloomy palm]

the opposite of manifold is?

[mystic verge]

I really hate bottlenecks so i like to avoid manifolds when splitting where i can

[cinder silo]

The opposite is a load balancer.

[gloomy palm]

manifold
fewflatten 😐

fewunfold 🥺

[gloomy palm]

i like load balancers despite being more work

[mystic verge]

ill try out the drawing that james posted and report back

[gloomy palm]

who is james

[cinder silo]

I've always fallen flat with the load balancers, and the extra space always bothers me.

[wintry aurora]

jtheweak is the one that posted the drawing.

[gloomy palm]

ohh i was reading smjjames name wrong.. i thought smjj was an acronym

james the weak

[gloomy palm]

but it was based on your suggestion

[wintry aurora]

I was actually going down to splitters with two belts going out, but that's probably an uneccesary step

[wintry aurora]

I know and that's fine.

[gloomy palm]

what does the smj mean

it took me too long to realize your name was james 🤣

[wintry aurora]

The whole thing is a combination of my name.

[gloomy palm]

hi james nice to meet ya howyadoin 😁

[wintry aurora]

Sure, hi. lol.

[cinder silo]

64 constructor concrete manifold, each in belt is just short of 709 limestone (four of them)

[gloomy palm]

I present to you, the PolySplitter, adjustable value of outputs from a single input, perfectly balanced on all outgoing ports

[cinder silo]

I think of load balancers, then think of this fuel rod facility! , 54 manufacturers, I am NOT going to try load balancing THAT , it's big enough with a manifold! 😛

[gloomy palm]

😅

every screenshot you post is a masterpiece 😍

[cinder silo]

Plants that big are just the cost of aiming to run 105 nuclear stations.

[gloomy palm]

I present to you, the PolySplitter version 2! (the first version was a terrible design 😅 )

[cinder silo]

Nuclear alley, still wip

[gloomy palm]

im gonna be your biggest fan 🤣

[cinder silo]

Even this incomplete campus shows just how much you need to build to support the nukes.

[versed violet]

anyone knows what is the minimum separation between tracks to keep them separate blocks (aka train no crash)?

[cinder silo]

Sorry bud I don't know, I didn't get far in to trains in spite of my initial plans 😦

[tropic hawk]

1 rail/foundation works fine for me

[versed violet]

How you have nukes without railways xd?

[tropic hawk]

trucks

[cinder silo]

There's a mkl5 belt for that 😄

[gloomy palm]

drones

always use drones 😐

[tropic hawk]

wtf is mkl?

[cinder silo]

I don't use drones, just belts.

[gloomy palm]

makerel

[cinder silo]

typo 😛 , Mk5 !

[gloomy palm]

there's a sorta hitbox which would equate the width of two trains if they were on both tracks next to each other

you have to imagine the separation of two rails needs to be wide enough for two trains to pass each other without colliding

although im not sure if trains collide if they pass each other on two rails close enough together from opposite directions, they probably do hence the rail grouping mechanism

[cinder silo]

I wonder when Let's game it out will have an area filled with crashed trains, and how many train wrecks it would take 🙂

[gloomy palm]

crashing drones when

[versed violet]

Holy being of your approriate religion. This is way uncomfortably TOO CLOSE, but they pass 🤣

[the rail 'railings' are actually clipping each oither]

[cinder silo]

That so looks like it should be a wreck 🙂

[ashen girder]

Are they separate blocks though?

[versed violet]

Nope, but the little rail actualy gets power from... somewhere???

[ashen girder]

Probably the rail it's touching. 😂

[gloomy palm]

do they crash?

oh they pass and clip?

[wintry aurora]

Scrape past with a shower of sparks (and then derail)?

[gloomy palm]

well that's what i'd have been half expecting

[versed violet]

Trains go through fine without derailing, but rails are considered single block. Keeping them 1 build step away from each other is needed for separate blocks

[incidentally being the distance where train brakes no longer clip each other

[gloomy palm]

as i suspected

but they should derail if they are close like that

i guess they let the hit boxes a little loose

#screenshots message

[gloomy palm]

tribute to @cinder silo

[versed violet]

Any idea when/if they are going to fix the 2m/1m corners being rotated wrong?

[chilly bison]

I just demolished and rebuilt all mine, same with half the side-doors I have flipping around.

[cinder silo]

Urgh the side doors, half of mine were flipped, I discovered that to my cost after several damaging falls, the ladders were on the other side!

[wind spade]

yo, is there anyone who has played with particle accelerators and knows how their power consumption behaves in relation to clock speed?
I'm looking for answers to these questions:

• does the min/max consumption increase the same way as normal consumption based on clock speed?
• does the cycle time scale with clock speed? (e.g. cycle time is halved for 200% OC)
• is the cycle linear (iirc it is, goes min->max linearly and repeats forever)

[versed violet]

OSHA would like a word why the other side of the door opens into void

[gloomy palm]

the USCSB narrator: It was a cool September morning when a FICSIT employee drove in to begin his shift at the Exoplanetary Mining Facility, which unknown to him, had recently been subjected to a disastrous geological event that left many of the facility's underground entrances hanging over what used to be solid ground, but now only a void into the abyss. The employee started on his way down into one of the facility's underground levels, and not having been made aware of the recent geological activity, swiftly swung one the entrance doors wide open, took a step forward without looking down, and plunged to his untimely death.

[versed violet]

Train trivia: What happens when train arrives from direction you are looking from? The blue loco is personal transport/manual.

[wind spade]

I'd say it waits because it goes by shortest route

[versed violet]

fortunatelly not, it goes by right path that is empty

[wintry aurora]

I see a blue wall of fog, not a blue locomotive. Edit: nvm

[gloomy palm]

isn't that the complex block thing

it's the same block but it allows paths to be taken if they are clear or such

i watched the youtube video explaining it but i forget the terminologies 😐

[versed violet]

what i would like to notice here, is that path signal allows the other train to enter the block before previous train cleared it. it is suffieicent the previous train has left the junction (with some clearance), so if there are two colliding paths, it doesn't wait for the colliding path to be fully traversed, just that it own path is clear

[elder cargo]

Math question. Does anyone know at what rate does belts pick up resources. Not the speed or the amount they can carry but the tickrate speed they pick up. Is it the same as the amount they carry or is it something else?

[versed violet]

most likely fps related

[elder cargo]

I'm assuming g at the 30 tickrate server and a belt 1 can carry 60 per minute that is 2 per tickrate or one every 0.5?

So since it can't go in smaller amounts than 1, I'm assuming they go 2 per tickrate or 10 or whatever the number might be?

[wind spade]

iirc it's tied with fps, so if you have 60 fps, then it's 60 times in a second, or 3600/min 🤷‍♂️

[versed violet]

"How low fps must be for mk5 belt to start loosing item throughput due to insufficient ticks, is left as exercise for the inquirer"

[wind spade]

that assumes it can lose throughput due to insufficient ticks

since you can just calculate more items in one tick 🤷‍♂️

[versed violet]

Does the game do that though? I heard people talking mk5 looses throughput at lower fps.

[wind spade]

mk5 doesn't need low fps to lose max throughput

and it's caused by decimal imprecision

[split salmon]

do you think its acceptable to build 10 modular frames a minute for a starter?

[stark bronze]

That's only 5 assemblers ez

Wait

Yup math is right

[gloomy palm]

next time someone tells me that players should read descriptions

[fringe pawn]

Well, not enough people, at least. I can think of a Discord server for an upcoming game that finally changed its FAQ to say coming in 2022, because apparently enough people do read that stuff that they got tired of people confused about the lack of a release date. 😛

[versed violet]

Fixmass only needs copper and iron, or something more?

[gloomy palm]

fixmass 😐

slaps you

[gloomy palm]

hmm i'll only see it if i believe it

or wait.. 😐

it's too early in the morning to say words

goodnight all 🥺

🛌 💤

[frosty owl]

It can get much worse (thus more noticeable) with decreasing FPS

[wind spade]

anyone has answers? 👀

[near zenith]

i'm going to be starting my nuc build within a day or so, are those the things you'd like me to check?

anything else?

[cinder silo]

Going nuclear? be prepare for a very long haul 😄

[near zenith]

i'm so ready

we're already on day 3 of material prep and dragging to the swamp lol

[cinder silo]

I broke my plan down in to much smaller chunks, though I have 138 control rods setup.

Control rod bit.

Repro bit 😄

I need to belt in another coal mine so all the steel is dealt with.

[wind spade]

does this look good or not? Coming soon to tools near you

[near zenith]

visual isolation of the Total Cost bar on the bottom to seperate it a bit more from just being another row imo

[wind spade]

how about this? 🤔

[near zenith]

better, i'd also right align Total Cost with the edge of the building name column

[wind spade]

oh yeah, I wanted to do that and forgot lol

[near zenith]

also capitalize the C in cost so my fake OCD can stop twitching

very important

[wind spade]

I'm not really fan of the "capitalize everything" gang

[near zenith]

WHAT

THIS IS MADNESS

[wind spade]

isn't it more grammatically correct to not have it capitalised? 🤔

[near zenith]

also, if you have a open building subrow, and you scroll, does the "Building/Building Cost (see what i did there)" header slide down with it, or is it a static row at the top of the table

[wind spade]

uhh

wording at 5am not great

[near zenith]

i'm honestly not sure if you need to go to sleep or stop waking up so early

[wind spade]

header scrolls with text, no magic there

doesn't make sense for it to stick to the top of screen anyway

as it's part of the production tool

[wind spade]

idk I started coding in the evening and suddenly it's 5 am 🤷‍♂️

[near zenith]

understandable

You might want to include the icon of the recipe being created in the building next to the name as well in the subrow

[wind spade]

recipes don't have icons 🤔

[near zenith]

aluminum casing icon next to aluminum casing

[wind spade]

recipes can have multiple outputs

also this view isn't really for browsing recipes, this is mostly "shopping list" for people to start building things

there's the "items" view that I'm working on as well, which will include more info about recipes and items and where do they go

[near zenith]

i'm thinking more if you have a row that's like, Caterium Wire (28x [Constructor Icon]), it would be a good visual clue for those not familiar with the alt recipe names to put the [Wire] icon next to Caterium Wire

[wind spade]

yeah but there's still the multiple recipe output problem

e.g. HOR + PR

[near zenith]

put all the output icons?

[wind spade]

I mean... possible I guess... just not sure how well would it look 🤔

[near zenith]

also if this is a build guide, having an indication of outputs being solid or liquid would inform the need for belts vs pipes

[wind spade]

that's usually obvious from the building type 🤔