math-and-meta

[knotty frigate]

I believe people just mean "folding" a large flat factory up ontop of itself

So instead of having a linear expanse of machine lines feeding into eachother, you move sections onto different floors

The term is most useful when talking about production diagrams that assume a single large floor, where you as the builder need to figure out how to 'fold' it

[vapid gorge]

Oh. I never considered a factory with multiple floors to have a name

[glad radish]

how worth it is turbofuel? according to the MJ cost of making the coke, fuel and heavy oil, there seems to be a net gain of -12% ?

[vast jungle]

turbofuel makes a lot more power from the same amount of oil while costing "some" sulfur (and coal)

if you have too much oil anyways, you can easily build a (diluted) fuel powerplant instead...

[glad radish]

aah. I found my mistake. I was calculating the forumula based on one unit of turbofuel being produced. the actual value is six

~75% gain seems more correct

[hard solstice]

It's not the name of the factory, it's the name of the operation done to the flow diagram, since in this case the raw materials were being sent to a central location and the machines radiated outward in both directions, producing identical products at each step.

If the machines on one side were to be moved to another floor instead of just spreading out then the final product could be collected at a single location for transport.

[vast jungle]

just remember with the same amount of oil you need a lot more infrastructure for the powerplant... especially more Fuel Generators 😉

[glad radish]

I usually do:
F1: belts
F2: production
F3: belts
F4: production
etc

belt floors being usually 3-4 meters high

[hard solstice]

That makes sense for more complex setups, but in this case the factory was very linear.

[fierce ruin]

Hiding all belts removes a massive appeal of the visuals to me.
I like seeing the items flow.

[hard solstice]

(Producing RIPs from iron ore.)

[vast jungle]

yes, I like "floor belts" (I call them crawling spaces) too... but they are not really necessary for a powerplant... its just "take machine line X, repeat 20 times" 😉

I only put some belts into the crawling space... the one that go a long way across the factory and would cut several lines of machines

also, glass foundations are a thing

[glad radish]

re-did my math based on "what if all ingredients were turned into fuel or burned as fuel instead" and compared the turbofuel energy yield to that number. here's my results:

+47% Energy (blended)
+44% Energy (turbofuel)
-18% Energy (heavy turbofuel)

[gloomy gyro]

Ugh I just realized that since I overclocked manufacturers to do 12 blenders into 12 manufacturers, that means I still have to do an awkward balance into the 30 nuke plants 😭

I thought I could just do a 5 splitter but that doesn't work because I don't have extra fuel rods coming in for the 5 splitter

[hard solstice]

Why do you need extra?

[gloomy gyro]

5 splitter has 120% of what you're using coming in doesn't it?

because it's constantly feedback looping

[hard solstice]

That's why you feed back the remainder.

A splitter only ever has 100%. The feedback is to complete the math.

If you have 20/min and you need to split it to 4/min then the feedback doesn't make it 24/min.

It can only still ever be 20/min.

[fierce ruin]

Yes.

[hard solstice]

If you make the splitter a black box then you can see that you;re putting in 20/min and getting out 5*4/min, for a difference of 0.

[frosty owl]

I don't see an issue with that

How dare you?!
(What do you mean?)

[thorn bane]

5 way splitters just work dont worry
you send in 5 you will get 1 on each output
send in the next 5 you will get 1 on each output again in the same order
dont let the math scare you

i did the same with my 40 plants

[frosty owl]

I've OCed many machines to 125% just to avoid having 5 of them

[thorn bane]

but the perfect 💯 clock speed waste management

[frosty owl]

Urgh...
Mine's at 120%

Waste outputs of 100s clean are hard to get if one doesn't balance the rods to the NPP weirdly

[fierce ruin]

it's the era of manifolds & rate limiting anyway
who needs balancing

[frosty owl]

Whoever doesn't like to see belts clogged with unmoving items, dislikes spooling times or doesn't want radiation in nuclear setups (or any of the three)

[fierce ruin]

rods aren't radioactive, tho

[frosty owl]

Uranium fuel rods are little less radioactive than waste

[fierce ruin]

ah, I didn't read the premise
30 nuke plants is not a terribly good idea in this case, indeed

should've gone 40 or 20

[thorn bane]

30 is a nice number for uranium rod manufacturers though

40 is 13.333 manufacturers

[fierce ruin]

then again, an NPP filled with uranium rods doesn't make a terribly large rad zone, actually (the plutonium ones are far worse)

[thorn bane]

eeeh if you stack them to 50 they are quite radioactive

[gloomy gyro]

30 is 15 manufacturers the way I was doing it, but then I went power shard happy and tweaked my manufacturers to only need 12 so I could straight feed them from the blenders (no infused uranium)

[frosty owl]

Personal preference 🤷‍♂️
Personally, I just love being able to use the hoverpack anywhere regardless of nuclear or not

[frosty owl]

OC the blenders instead? 😆

[thorn bane]

anyone have a screenshot of a manifold NPP? afaik they are quite radioactive

[fierce ruin]

yeah, filling the manufacturer with cells is even less of a problem, cells aren't very rad

well, the plutonium ones are, the uranium ones aren't

[thorn bane]

its more for the uranium
333 into 13.33 manufacturers

[frosty owl]

Infused uranium cells FTW

[fierce ruin]

I tend to make that directly onsite
hauling raw uranium is bleh

2+2 guys i need help what is it

[frosty owl]

For comparison: at the top, UFRs manufacturers, below the cells manif. Both balanced, but one can already see how uranium has a bigger impact but the difference is small given the stack sizes involved in processing (cells need 100 min for a cycle)
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824165021508304907/908421473436327946/unknown.png

The bigger "blob" of radiation is the uranium station 🤮

[thorn bane]

thats why i bring in my uranium a bit away 🙂

[frosty owl]

I opted for drones instead
Its actually quite great (didn't want uranium belts sneaking around outside the nuclear factory), the radiation keeps in a 5 foundations radius max

[thorn bane]

dude this freaking uranium drone has bumped into me so many times fuck them

its going from red forest to the north uranium node
so both places pretty high
but ofcoruse the stupid drone decides to go as low as possible and flies right over my head hrmpf

[frosty owl]

Yeah, the bugged altimeter thigh, right?

[fierce ruin]

yeah, in U5 I heard drones have decided to go through terrain quite often

[gloomy gyro]

almost done with my nuclear + sinking the plutonium build, but man I didn't realize how much space each damn nuclear plant takes up

[thorn bane]

ye its pretty big
the water aswell

[gloomy gyro]

the water is whatever because I'm building at the waterfall uranium and I can get 75 gens in that lake up there

but trying to line up 2 manufacturers to 5 nuclear plants is awkward af

[thorn bane]

1 to 5 splitter at the bottom
and then 1 to 8 splitters in line for 1->40

[frosty owl]

I made 4 columns of generators in front of 6 well-spaced rods manifacturers

[ashen girder]

How's my 2-4 Coal gen setup look to you guys?

[still trout]

why is it built like that? wouldn't it be easier to make a platform?

[ashen girder]

I.. don't think you get much easier than that. 😂

Plop down a generator, add a pipe to it.

Plop down another generator, put a junction on the pipe, add a pipe to the next generator.

[still trout]

looks like shit, you can't expand it, takes up a lot of space

enough reasons?

[ashen girder]

You can expand it just fine!

Just plop down more generators.

[still trout]

again, looks like shit and takes up more space than is necessary

[ashen girder]

Kinda rude that you keep saying it looks like shit, tbh.

And it's grasslands, who cares about space?

[still trout]

you literally asked about how it looks to us...

[ashen girder]

I did, once. 😂

More to the point, though, I was joking and you're just kinda being a dick.

[still trout]

sarcasm was hard to sense in that message, also i apologize if i'm being rude not feeling the best rn

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that's fair. I thought it was self-evidently bad. 😉

[wintry aurora]

You got the noob look captured perfectly.

[ashen girder]

I haven't bothered rebuilding it because it's out of the way. It was literally my very first coal plant on this save.

[wintry aurora]

Ah, that explains it.

[ashen girder]

It's certainly better than my fuel plant. 😂

[still trout]

man, i'm still gonna complain about you not using foundations to place factories on

i'm assuming this is an older factory, but still

[ashen girder]

Better? 😛

[still trout]

glorious, even foundations on miners

[ashen girder]

Yup.

[still trout]

that's even more foundations than what i use

i mostly use foundations to exclusively place factories on, and minimal foundations with nothing on top

[ashen girder]

It's the grasslands. I don't like grass.

[still trout]

aha, dope

[south mango]

anyone have turbo motor blueprint? 😦

[vast jungle]

SatisfactoryTools?

Wiki?

[south mango]

i mean blueprint to download and save

on calculator site i didnt understand a bit

[vast jungle]

maybe you should ask in the Mod Discord?

Vanilla Satisfactory has no supports for loadable blueprints

[south mango]

can u explain me this?

[vast jungle]

You need a mod to load a blueprint in Satisfactory... so asking it here is moot, because this discord is only about Vanilla Satisfactory

[south mango]

i mean blueprints which is downlaodable from satisfactory calculator site

thats same?

[vast jungle]

maybe? Don't know... I just play the vanilla game

what was your problem with the output of the calculator?

(and which calculator did you try to use?)

[oblique hollow]

Wonderful, peak piping and belting. Beautiful design and amazing color choice

[oblique hollow]

There isnt really a site for sharing blueprints. The SCIM does allow you to export and import blueprints, but theres no sharing site for those

[thorn bane]

there is one its called https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Manifold

[tropic hawk]

yet...

[topaz hedge]

for what it's worth importing/exporting pipes on scim tends to corrupt the network. or used to. I messaged anthor about it. and he said he'd look into it when he got the chance.

[quaint sage]

Trying to spatially plan a recycled plastic chain

purple: HOR
orange: diluted packaged fuel
grey P: packagers (not to scale)
blue: plastic/recycled plastic
grey: recycled rubber

[thorn bane]

bro get a blender

[quaint sage]

I think that's the best space layout I can manage, no wasting

[quaint sage]

no u

get an assload from 270 oil

[thorn bane]

isnt that 12 packagers?
theres no way that fits

[quaint sage]

have to build an assload, rather

[quaint sage]

stacking

[thorn bane]

ah

[quaint sage]

-nators for life

the cells are 10x20 so I couldn't draw the packagers to scale

no allowance for belts and pipes either obv

[tropic hawk]

in my spreadsheet, I just make all the cells a square, label them 1m wide, then just zoom out a ton. works like a charm on my PC. It does light a weak computer on fire though.

[quaint sage]

I've tried various. For builds that fit exactly in foundations I have 24 pixel squares I think it is

[tropic hawk]

I did 8px squares

[ashen girder]

Y'all should try diagramming software 😂

It's.. a lot easier than that.

[tropic hawk]

Here is my simple spreadsheet... In progress

[quaint sage]

I've got Visio for work and I hate it

[thorn bane]

i use draw .io for stuff like that

[tropic hawk]

every time you see the thickness of the lines above change is it goes through another 26 letters

[quaint sage]

This is a level of attention to detail that is beyond me at present 😄

[tropic hawk]

its just merging cells... its not hard, just a little bit tedious at times.

I have a massive section off to one side for premerged cells that I use a lot of

[ashen girder]

Meanwhile I'm over here like "flowchart go brrr" 😂

Don't gotta merge nothin'.. copy/paste works great.. conveyors stay connected when I shuffle stuff around..

I can shuffle stuff around..

[quaint sage]

is that intended to be accurate dimensionally?

[ashen girder]

Not strictly, no. But the overall scale is helpful.

[quaint sage]

good for numbers and belt topology for sure

[ashen girder]

It wouldn't be hard to make it accurate. I just didn't feel like being that fiddly with it.

[tropic hawk]

I use a bound Graph composition note book, but my 150 page pad of Ledger (11"x17") Graph paper should be here next tuesday

[ashen girder]

Harder to copy-paste, harder to move around. 😂

[quaint sage]

for most machines other than refineries I do clusters of 8 stacked 2 high that are 24x24m or 24x40m + elevator overhang, that's nice and easy to standardise and visualise

[ashen girder]

I stack processing on different floors, so I just have a few lines moving between them.

[fierce ruin]

rebuilding large oil setups is always about as painful as it can ever get, so why not rush t7, aluminium, and proper diluted fuel recipe with a blender?

[quaint sage]

I keep thinking about a Borg Cube build

[fierce ruin]

although DPF is good enough

[ashen girder]

DPF and DF have the exact same material ratios tho. 😂

[quaint sage]

it'd be hard af to achieve

[fierce ruin]

yes, but DPF is way more annoying to build

[ashen girder]

True. 😄

[quaint sage]

I like the diluted packaged fuel recipe aesthetically, it's just fun to use the pack/unpack mechanic

why have complexity in the game to make the game engaging and then bypass it

[ashen girder]

Turbo Pressure Motors are probably up your alley then. 😂

[fierce ruin]

oh, it's not like you can avoid complexity

turbo motors, nukes, space phase 4 has all the complexity there

[quaint sage]

My feeling was that they put the diluted fuel in as a packaged recipe to make you pay the complexity cost for the extra output...and then add another alt that makes that pointless, feels like a cop-out

[ashen girder]

DPF existed before blenders did.

They pretty much just added DF for parity.

[fierce ruin]

yep, it's just nobody cared much because turbofuel

but then we got a lot more uses for sulphur, and suddenly turbofuel lost a good deal of shine

[quaint sage]

Anyway, We Are Borg.

All processing in a floating cube ~100m above the map, everything shipped in by drone. Difficult as hell to put together

Unless you physically can't do that because of battery limits, I think it'd be rad to try

[fierce ruin]

probably going to cut into your FPS after a certain point
but nice idea

nah, you can make lots of batteries

[quaint sage]

and try to make the internal structures extremely uniform, like the aesthetics of the show

[fierce ruin]

I'm not exactly sure you can transport whole world worth of resources with drones, but surely you can get most of it

[quaint sage]

I've never used drones; how good is their pathfinding, can they get in through a portal/doorway to land?

[fierce ruin]

I never did anything extreme with them in U4, so not sure. They were able to get out of your factories and terrain quite well. In U5 they're currently kinda buggy and tend to fly through terrain.

oh, and gates don't react to them at the moment, so they'll just clip through

[topaz hedge]

in u4 they were great. i think there was a few spots where the clipped terrain, but overall not really.. in u5 they fly straight through mountains. lol

pathfiding they work good. they still actively avoid things you build it seems.

[magic island]

drones don't actually collide with stuff or need to worry about avoiding obstacles.

in U4 they did at least PRETEND to avoid terrain but uh, something broke in U5 so they come off a bit silly, flying low and zipping through mountains

but the general premise of drones is, they can get between any two locations no matter what, and you never have to worry about how

[quaint sage]

better than trucks

[wintry aurora]

They go right through rock and I’ve heard they go right through buildings. There’s probably no path finding other than straight from point A to B

Oh heh, this reply is so late.

[topaz hedge]

just a little. they were supposed to avoid your structures tho

[summer fox]

i`m using iron ally ingot (50pm) into solid steel needing 40 iron pm with 4 iron foundries going into 5 steel foundries if i use normal spilters will it balance out so it only takes 10 from each belt? or would it spilt it 25/25?

[fierce ruin]

It'll balance itself out eventually but it's worth it to at least supply in the middle go left and right to 2 foundries each.

If you set up splitters in a row it'll always half itself after each splitter. It'll probably balance itself out eventually too, but the last machine in the row will always receive the least and if it does still balance out at that point then you have a pretty bad bottleneck in the consumption.

[warm tiger]

What's a good early game factory setup

[ashen girder]

The one that works.

[warm tiger]

I dont know how to make anything functional

[ashen girder]

What part are you struggling with?

[warm tiger]

Getting the stuff i need to expand

[glacial stag]

Just keep building more production lines to get the things you need. Don't rebuild old stuff, just add new stuff on to it. You can start to clean up your production lines once you get into mid and late game.

[heavy barn]

IMO, the time to start tearing up and re-laying out the production lines are when you're looking to account for hard drive recipes (:

[wind spade]

IMO it's best to first look for alternate recipes before you start putting down production lines

[vapid gorge]

They fly through everything

[vapid gorge]

Early on it’s not unreasonable to make a few long belts across the ground to bring you things

[muted storm]

So I was checking out the Satisfactory-Calculator's production planner. I feel I'm doing something wrong. If I want to see what the build steps would be to convert the output of a power plant (50 uranium waste) into something sinkable (1 plutonium fuel rod), it takes several minutes to calculate, and the thing is so big it won't even render in my browser haha.

Like, I don't need it to display how to mine limestone into concrete.

[sullen cloud]

better use satisfactorytools

[lyric smelt]

"simple" viewmode helps a lot in this case

[muted storm]

Yeah was just trying that

[muted storm]

Oh yeah Simple is way better.... what's the difference?

Doesn't try to make every machine be a perfect 1x output?

[lyric smelt]

it doesn't split up "10.7 refineries" into 11 separate items

it just displays the totals of each step and let's you figure out routing and over/underclocking yourself

(underclocking obviously only applies if you care about smoothing out your powerconsumption and/or power efficiency)

[potent nest]

i find that i prefer the calculator on satisfactorytools

[muted storm]

Any tips on making it be somewhat smarter? Like, from reading the wiki and mathing out the Blender etc, I know it's cleaner to provide 100 Uranium Waste as the input rather than 10. But the calculator doesn't really say "hey stupid, don't give me 40 Uranium Waste"

[lyric smelt]

it's not smart. it just maths out the way to get you to your desired output(s).
you can apply alternate recipes you have and it'll make use of them if it's more material and/or power efficient to do so

[potent nest]

i mean, it's really useful but it's mostly about not having to fuss around with a spreadsheet and getting confused about what number goes where. you still have to make decisions yourself.

and it totally will not tell you how to build your factory

[mental needle]

you may be interested in the calculator I brought up-to-date
you can simply click away inputs you have, so you can see only the things relevant for you
unfortunately this server won't let me send the link I will PM you

[muted storm]

Oh yeah that's nice. I wish I could drag things around (they're kinda squished together), but I like the click-to-delete a lot.

[muted storm]

His site is tadeaustria dot github dot io / satisfactory-calculator

[mental needle]

yeah, unfortunately the arrangement is done by the d3-sankey-circular library. it got a little bit worse since I started using this, but I wanted the circular, as update 3 introduced such dependencies

[vast jungle]

the unmodified Aluminium chain is really awful ^^
Quartz, Bauxit, Water, Coal and Copper???

[potent nest]

what, you expected it to be easy?

[mental needle]

I think the hardest part there is the handling of the side products (water, silica) as they could shutdown the complete line when they are not perfectly balanced and back up...

[potent nest]

that's totally standard in games like this, i'd be surprised if they didn't do something like that

[fierce ruin]

you can always unlock alts to make it only bauxite, coke, and water

also, why the hell there's copper in that list?

[glacial stag]

To make the alclad sheets

You can also unlock alclad casings too. It'll take a decent amount of copper ingots.

[fierce ruin]

well certainly, but it's only required for sheets, and those aren't the only thing you'd want.

[vast jungle]

at the moment I am building a "minimal" Aluminium production... so that I can use the Blender for Diluted Fuel (and then Rubber/Plastic)...
and maybe some MK5 belts ^^

I don't want to go on another HD hunt right now ^^

[fierce ruin]

well, a "minimal" aluminium setup on alts is a lot more "minimal" than the default one

it's pretty close to requiring twice as less buildings

by volume, not count

[vast jungle]

I know I know... but I have no Alt for Tier 7/8 at the moment, so it will take quite a few HDs to get the necessary ones

[vast jungle]

this "quick and dirty" Aluminium business becomes a quite complex thing 😉

[frosty owl]

Alu sheets ^^

[edgy bloom]

hi guys im running into return water issues on my alumina setup

its not temptying the pipes properly

[wintry aurora]

That looks complicated.

[fierce ruin]

what exactly should be happening here?

[edgy bloom]

the return water should be prioritised over the input pukp system

[fierce ruin]

well, we don't know how it relates to your picture. Where's the return water? Where's "other" water?

[frosty owl]

@turbid otter Could you share the factory plans you're comparing?

[tropic hawk]

I have been doing this too, at least the bolted frame. They thought me a madman for using bolted frame for my nuclear setup... But I just need 6k screws a min

[edgy bloom]

@fierce ruin fixed it

used valves to limit the inflow pump

[tropic hawk]

or using petroleum coke ingots

[fierce ruin]

yeah, unless you're busy building world-spanning steel factories or fuel burners, the only resources you should really think hard about, are - sulphur, quartz, bauxite, in that order

rest is much less likely to be used up completely

[frosty owl]

But you can push 780 beams/min on one belt, that's 52 full belts of screws once processed (usually 1:1 with the machine using screws, which is the convenience)

The excessive use of steel for the frames is why I personally prefer using the normal frames, as I find they strike the best balance between coal usage and machine reduction (will add details comparing the plans in a min, takes a while from mobile)

(Normal frames with bolted plates I mean)

Oof, I see a big misunderstanding there
The HMF standard recipe is not the one I would go for as it loses too much compared to the encased version ahahah

Just even the savings encased beams using the HMF alt counter any advantage in using bolted with the standard HMF alt

But it's still the least steel consuming recipe, unless one includes the flexible alt ahah

[thorn bane]

isnt heavy encased frames the most op recipe ever created?
it just makes everything better?

[frosty owl]

Yeah... Even flexible can't win in much over it :/

[thorn bane]

if you wanna compare steel pipes vs screws look at rotors
i actually dont like steel rotor because im sick of makign steel pipes

[frosty owl]

Just switch the recipes for HMF so both plans use the same and you should see the savings on machines I was referring to

[tropic hawk]

and not screws?

[fierce ruin]

flexible eats too much iron parts
so it's about as bad as default, but now with rubber!

[thorn bane]

honestly after building 4500 quickwire on my bus i think i dont even mind screws anymore if you have smart splitters and mk5 belts xD

[tropic hawk]

one of these days, I will run an investigation into what recipe to use to maximize points per ore input

[thorn bane]

yes pls

[frosty owl]

It has very nice ratios once you combine it with oil-related alts
It's also the fastest in making the frames
So if one just has a ton of rubber/plastic lying around, I guess it can be a convenient way to make some HMFs quickly (least machines needed to set it up)

[fierce ruin]

I'd actually like flexible HMF much more if it would replace any other ingredient (even screws) for rubber, not steel pipes

[frosty owl]

If one is building in the "Speed runner start", that's not an unlikely scenario actually xD

[thorn bane]

how do you have rubber/plastic just "lying around" o.O

[frosty owl]

A flexible frames manifacturer take 1.5 steel screws constructors, that's just so nice compare to all the numbers for the encased frames

[fierce ruin]

How to make even division of 1 input into 4 outputs?

[frosty owl]

You overbuilt a plubber recycling loop

[frosty owl]

Split 1 in 2, then do it again

[fierce ruin]

you'd still need to provide it with 18.75 frames and 11.25 EIB, good luck with being nice on numbers

[fierce ruin]

I did so, well, the output turns out to be uneven

[thorn bane]

meanwhile encased needs 20.625 concrete 🙂

[frosty owl]

I'll have to create a couple factory plans...
Just not on mobile, it's too hard on mobile 😅

[fierce ruin]

so you just throw enough concrete its way, and don't sweat over small stuff 😏

[frosty owl]

Unless any of the output belts are backing up (or you're using belts of different mark for the outputs) each output will have 1/4 of the input

[thorn bane]

HMFs actually use so much concrete its insane

[fierce ruin]

well, that's one of only two uses for it anyway

[frosty owl]

The frames are actually very easy. It's a nice multiple of the bolted frame's output

[fierce ruin]

I'm fairly sure all MFs are made with nonfractional rates, like 5/m or 3/m

yeah
2/m, 5/m, and 3/m

gettng to 18.75 from it doesn't seem too nice

well, you can get to 75/m, I guess

[thorn bane]

with HMF recipes just underclock so its 3 HMF per min then the numbers get nice

[fierce ruin]

if you're using bolted recipe, and underclocking it - that seems doubly backwards, as the only good thing about bolted is their production speed

ah, you mean HMFs

never liked the idea of underclocking manufacturers, they're already taking tons of space

[thorn bane]

well everything you build out of it needs whole numbers anyway instead of stupid 2.8125
can also just underclock the last machine in the manifold if you want

[fierce ruin]

sure, just do x16 scale for 45/m 😏

[frosty owl]

Ever thought of overcklocking them instead?

[fierce ruin]

but tbh, I finish my decent HMF factory (outputting some stupid 2.8125x2 or something) long before I need HMFs for more automation

because first you'd need a lot of them on building/unlocking, and only then on automation

space phase 3 requires only 100, and those are rookie numbers, those you can simply loot

[thorny plover]

Is this the right place to ask for how many pumps to gens or something else?

[vast jungle]

pumps are to increase headlift... you need one pump per pipe per 20/50m headlift

[frosty owl]

Once you use the same recipe for HMFs, they actually get pretty similar ^^
Left Bolted + Bolted + Steel Screws, right Stitched + Steeled + Iron Wire
Bolted plan: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=a9anxyVYNzijdzx7Nhni
Steeled plan: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=FiIKgouexhOiHNa633lN
Bolted seem to use ~15 more coal and ~10 less iron, breadcrumbs

[thorn bane]

both are steeled frame for me

also who dafuq uses bolted??? use default one

[steel mason]

They are used if you're short on space but have some extra resources. It costs a couple more screws but it produces at 3x(?) rate of normal recipe

[frosty owl]

I'm too tired, I'm hitting myself in confusion (having issues selecting the correct alts in the tool)

[frosty owl]

Which I totally don't mind, honestly
Iron is abundant ^^

[prime breach]

Can you guys please explain what is wrong:

I have Copper Miner MK1, which make 120 ore per minute
I use 4 Smelters which work at 30 per minute

In theory they are match (120 to 120), but why I have stacks piling up on every Smelter? They should work 1 to 1

[ashen girder]

If you're using a manifold, the first smelter will always be full of ore, and the last smelter should barely have any.

[river night]

usually because the output is not being consumed from the smelter

[prime breach]

I split them like that

[prime breach]

it consumed further and have buffer (container)

[river night]

well your smelters are yellow, so they likely cant output enough

[prime breach]

hm

[river night]

check if the output is also full, and if the output line is moving as expected

somewhere something is piling up, you have to find the spot where its missing and backtrace

might be a wrong belt somewhere, or something like that, or a miscalculation somewhere

[maiden berry]

Hey everyone, I entered the wiki and found about the Weighted Point (WP). But I don't think that I understand it correctly. The lower the better because I can do more with fewer prior parts?

[thorn bane]

yes
the weighted comes form the fact that the resources come in different amounts
100 uranium is not 100 limestone
so by weighting the resouces it balances it to be a percent base of the available resources
but yes lower means less resources are used
just keep in mind that that doesnt necessarily mean that the recipe is a must use, just that its resource efficient.

[maiden berry]

Thank you!

I'm trying to figure how much Iron Ingots I should use on Iron plates and how much I should use to Iron rods to be efficient on Reinforced Iron Plates production

[tropic hawk]

use u4.satisfactorytools.com

[silver tundra]

for U5 www.satisfactorytools.com

[topaz hedge]

either or x:

[gloomy gyro]

If you use the satisfactory calculator, set it up to make however many reinforced plates you want, and it will balance out the other parts

[surreal dune]

If i have 252 Reactors, I need to be producing 50.4 Fuel Rods/min right?

[near zenith]

0.2 rods/min/reactor, 0.4 rods/min/reactor if overclocked to 250%

[surreal dune]

is it worth it to overclock the reactors?

[near zenith]

only have to build half as many, so... maybe?

[surreal dune]

i already built 252 lol

[near zenith]

rofl

you should apologize to your future carpal tunnel syndrome

[surreal dune]

If I OC i'll end up tearing it all down, cuz i don't need the 1836 water extractors that i built either lol

[near zenith]

this game scares me because i know that number isn't a typo

[surreal dune]

this is 50.4 though, so at least i know what i need to reach.

[near zenith]

you got dis

[surreal dune]

unfortunately it's not a type, the extractors go all the way to the shore

[near zenith]

have fun storing the 2520 waste per minute since you're going to use all the uranium for rods and leave none left over for plutonium rods as waste removers

[surreal dune]

already ran power lines to all of it, & all the extractors are to the reactors underneath them lol.
Hopefully SCIM doesn't crash this time and i can actually get some numbers so this doesn't happen again lol

you need uranium to get rid of the waste?

[near zenith]

yep, for nonfissile uranium

wait, no, i'm an idiot

alt recipe

[near zenith]

ignore me for now, i'm like, half remembering a conversation

[surreal dune]

lol

i just need the standard recipe

[near zenith]

correcto

[sand epoch]

The water routing will be a nightmare for that.. doesnt look like there is room for pumps below :(

[surreal dune]

don't even need pumps, the height is just low enough that there's enough head lift from the extractors themsleves ***unless i have to angle a pipe, then it needs headlift. but there's plenty of room. There's so many extractors there's always 1 right below an inlet for each reactor

[near zenith]

do you have plans for your 585 GW of power?

[surreal dune]

nope

[near zenith]

nice

[surreal dune]

other than to release it as a blueprint when i get it finally figured out

but since I'll likely be redoing it all for overclock that'll take a little longer than i wanted lol

[near zenith]

🙂 i'm simply an agent of chaos, sowing knowledge and disorder whereever i go

[surreal dune]

does anything besides SCIM help with build planning? it doesn't want to load 50.4 fuel rods/min lol with almost 20 alt recipes

[near zenith]

satisfactorytools.com/production

[sand epoch]

Scim planner .... um.. sux

[near zenith]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=0GTySnTMIMIQx1iMiKvK

only 10.5k quickwire per minute, positively simple

[surreal dune]

thank you

mine only says 4368 quickwire

i didn't select every alt recipe though, i only selected the ones I plan on using

can we change how it displays the chart?

[near zenith]

ah, yea, that'd be a diff version then, but, still, organizing those graph nodes is your new favorite activity

[surreal dune]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[surreal dune]

ah F

i just found the 2nd quickwire spot

[near zenith]

🙂

also, you have to share the specific tab, not the main site

[surreal dune]

How to waiste 80 hours - ask for a calculator that actually works & realize you did everything wrong

[near zenith]

i mean, it's not like i didn't warn you 😛

https://tenor.com/view/chaos-smug-christina-ricci-addams-family-addams-family-values-gif-11801830

[surreal dune]

@near zenithdoes this calc include Overclocking?

[fierce cypress]

yes (well kinda) it tells you the amount of machines needed and you can oc if u want

[surreal dune]

so just divide every number for machines by 2.5?

[fierce cypress]

e.g 6.25x assembler = 5 assemblers at 100% and one assembler at 125%

[fierce cypress]

that should work

[surreal dune]

6.25 would be 2.5 @ 250%

[fierce cypress]

yup

[ashen girder]

That's a lot of power. 😐

[surreal dune]

or 2 at 250% and 1 at 150%?

[ashen girder]

3 @ 209% tho.

[surreal dune]

mmm no cuz i divided by 2.5

[surreal dune]

yea

[fierce cypress]

2 @ 250% = 5x assemblers
1 @ 150 = 1.5x assemblers

for a total of 6.5

[ashen girder]

x*100, divide however many ways you want. 😂

650 = 150 + 125*4

Or 210+210+205, or whatever. 🤷‍♂️

But still.. plz don't do that to yourself. 😭

[fierce cypress]

10*0.625 = free power

[ashen girder]

47% power at 62.5% clock.

[surreal dune]

free power challenge

[ashen girder]

Nothing runs for free. 😂

[stone bane]

You guys think 320 concrete/h is enough forever? And i am not a good "builder" so i don't build big factories. I only make like big floors and multiple layers

[surreal dune]

5.3/min? probably not unless you afk a lot

you sure it's not 320/min?

[stone bane]

Ohh. yes 320/min xD

lmao. I actually did all of my "planning" for that in items/hour

[ashen girder]

per hour? o_O

[stone bane]

No... xD

[ashen girder]

Sorry, just caught up while typing that.

Had to express my astonishment. 😂

320/min.. also no though.

[stone bane]

Yeah. Got kind of surprised myself

[ashen girder]

Oh, maybe. My Phase 4 factory uses 300/min.

[surreal dune]

for what? Oo

[surreal dune]

I unlocked all tiers with only 1 limestone node (my goal was to just unlock the tiers not bulk part production)

[ashen girder]

Well, yeah. I've already unlocked everything.

[surreal dune]

ppm - parts per million? you packaging Phosphine Gas? lol

[ashen girder]

I only have one tapped for my normal HMF factory.

[ashen girder]

minute. 😂

[surreal dune]

figured after i thought about it for a second, parts per million is what i use in my job lol. for phosphine gas - among others

[topaz hedge]

the alt that uses uranium for non-fissal might actually be very useful for min/maxing.. since it doesn't require any silica o.o

[surreal dune]

but that would mean less powaaa

ig it depends how much power it saves

[topaz hedge]

no point in lots of power if you can't use it.

max ads uses like ~320GW anyway

the problem isn't really silica though.. it's copper and iron

[near zenith]

there's no kill like overkill though

why use a flyswatter when you can tactically nuke that mosquito

[topaz hedge]

I suppose so.

[ashen girder]

Sounds like a manifold to me?

[thorn bane]

yup works

[ashen girder]

Manifold's basically just a way of saying "I don't care how they get there, I just throw the right amount in."

[past granite]

hey im trying to setup a 5 --> 2 and 3 split, how do i do this

[ashen girder]

I generally suggest people not to. I think the wiki has guides on how to construct balancers though.

[past granite]

why do you suggest that people dont?

[ashen girder]

There isn't ever really a good reason to in Satisfactory.

[past granite]

i dont understand why, if i need one conveyor with 3p/m and one conveyor with 2 p/m out of a convery of 5p/m what would you suggest

[ashen girder]

Why do you need that, though?

[past granite]

becasue smart plating is 2 iron plates per minute and modular frames and 3 per minute

[ashen girder]

So, machines will only take what they can from a line. Once they have, they backup the line. When one of a splitter's outputs is filled, it'll overflow the rest to the other outputs.

[past granite]

but i dont want an overflow

[ashen girder]

So if you just split it to the two machines, they'll only take however many they need as long as you're supplying the right amount.

You asked why I suggest that. 😂 That's why. If you don't want to do that, then you'll need to figure out how to balance it.

[past granite]

i like to ask why because i like to know what other opinions are and such so i can see why they are suggesting a specific method

[ashen girder]

Fair enough. The reason why is because you don't need to, and balancers are extremely messy and complicated. 😂

[oblique bobcat]

So I'm having a bit of an issue. I have everything built, but the water and other lines are a huge issue. Everything keeps stopping. Mostly at the water return from the Aluminum Scrap going back into the Alumina Solution inputs. Valves can't control decimal points of water, so those are out the window. I considered just packaging all of the Scrap outlet water and sending to a Sink, but checking the math on that would put me hours behind in perfecting flow rates into packagers. It's all horrible. Recommendations?
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=87XklsTk9xfvGjAR453R

Also, looking at it now I don't have the flowrates right for making plastic and rubber to send to sinks from the heavy residue either. Such a pain, alternate recipes are.

[potent rampart]

If you check out the pinned posts in this channel, there’s a link to a good guide to pipes by McGalleon, there’s a particular junction that prioritizes one input over the others, building that will make sure the wastewater is always used first.

[oblique bobcat]

Awesome. Thank you so much. Haven't looked into the pinned posts yet.

[topaz hedge]

@oblique bobcat if you can't figure it out we'll be here

[ashen girder]

Hard drives and Alts and Inventory unlocks!

If anyone wants to rock some stats up in here, I'd appreciate it. 👆

[frosty owl]

I guess you must enjoy running around in yellow pijamas in your factory just because a little uranium piled up :P

[frosty owl]

Meh, 5 to x splits are annoying... I'd use one of needed for a large setup rather then a couple machines but usually one gets such a split by:
Splitting in 5, then merging 2 and 3 outputs together. To split in 5 you split in 6 and merge 1 back to the input (explained in the wiki)

[past granite]

thanks for the suggestion

ive figured something out

[frosty owl]

"Something"?

[wind spade]

You can also just do manifold instead of bothering yourself with balancing

[paper yacht]

Yep like he said 👆 I sink and overflow often to hells with balances lol

[frosty owl]

Wow, manifolding, who would have though about proposing such a solution 🤔

[paper yacht]

@wind spade Ok I don't try to bug you but really just have one thing I do yet think its pointless as I never used to do but a couple OCD people met over ther years adjust the belt speeds working down the manifold from one end to the other speed of belt no faster than what the rest of the building take in . I used to just use the fastest belt for what ever speed matched the infeed's and used all the same speed belt.

[frosty owl]

Fastest side belts making the spooling time the shortest has been discussed so many times xDD
And the answer (iirc) is that yes mk5 sidebelts make for the shortest spooling time (outside special cases)

[paper yacht]

When I started I would always just use the fastest belts on all the lines until I noticed all the waste of resources

[frosty owl]

You're not limited in your bulding materials, so I don't feel like one is wasting anything unless they need the materials for other things jn that moment in time :thinking:

[paper yacht]

YET Mk5 belts still have the bug?? effecting FPS or was this fixed in U5

Always had 2 simple lil rules don't use excess mk 5 belts and limit super short belt segments

[frosty owl]

Yes, mk5 still tend to 'lag behind" when you connect 2 full mk5 belt segments together
Each single segment is fine, but every one more reduces your throughput below 780

Eg: pure node miner into ISC in 1 belt segment is fine, if it's more than 1 segment the miner will start piling up items

[paper yacht]

Well if that is the issue @frosty owlno worries I never OC over 720 heck I try to just use 480.s most the time

these lil things always miss on Reddit hehe

[frosty owl]

What do you mean? ^^

[paper yacht]

Just the discussions on some topics always have issue doing searches there Its just me i suppose I've never had good luck navigating forums

Ok someone moved all my text to this section lol I'm like how did I get here no worries

[frosty owl]

Mh... We've been chatting in #math-and-meta for a few minutes now... 🤔

[frosty owl]

Can't really say much to that, I still quite dislike the forum format overall 😅 😆
And I barely use reddit ^^

[woeful estuary]

am I stupid or is train fluid transport throughput lower than items?

[fierce ruin]

How to do it better? Combine 5 miners into 1 conveyor and split it to 5 smelters, or start a conveyor from each miner to smelter?

[woeful estuary]

if you combine 5 miners into 1 conveyor, you'll run into conveyor throughput issues

at least in more cases than not

[frosty owl]

Depends on your belt and your miners, it that's a possibility
@fierce ruin merging would require you to place less belts if the miners aren't right in front of the smelters already

[frosty owl]

Lower than if you packaged the fluid and transported it via solid freights platform?
Yes, totally ^^

[woeful estuary]

rip

[inland roost]

Amy I thinking to small?

[summer fox]

do you loose items per minute when using long belts?

[feral valve]

@summer fox normally no

[summer fox]

right, becaues i`m making a line and i am 2 items pm over what i need so i wondered if what i can do without mess up my line so far

[feral valve]

2 items over? as in 2 items more?

[cedar mica]

Big saves, can mess with the maximum you get, but usually more the mk5 belt

[frosty owl]

You might, but you have plenty of room to either add or move things around if you feel like it ^^
It looks like a promising start to me 👍

[inland roost]

Thanks. Everytime I underestimated the amount of resources you need. Can't supply all machineries with the basic amount. Maybe with the next upgrade I can get around 500 iron ingots p/m Reffineries can do it

[frosty owl]

Or just have the entire production chain in an outpost and bring in the final product so you don't clutter your base too much ^^
Eg: adding a 30/min iron plates factory for your use is one thing (1 ore belt, a few machines), but if you need stuff like heavy Modular Frames in "big" numbers (at least 3 ores belts, lots of machines) it might be worth putting it all in an output that might be closer to the nodes needed

[inland roost]

Yeah thats the way I always did. This time I wanted to try building a giant (edit: factory) without outposts. Just the resources coming in.

[wintry aurora]

Giant fabric? Meant fabricator?

[inland roost]

My bad.....mistranslation.
Factory. Giant Factory

[wintry aurora]

fabricator is a good synonym though.

[inland roost]

Nice to know, thanks

[frosty owl]

Just keep in mind your GPU can only handle so much factory in your direct proximity @inland roost 😅
If your FPS drop too much in that area, it'll probably mean that you should start expanding elsewhere (or bear with the loss of FPS)

[inland roost]

Yeah, Its kind of balancing between gpu and cpu.
We try and we hope. The question is, how many ingots from each I need at the end

[frosty owl]

Eh, that's not a really good question... 😅
How many of each final product would be better, but you can still get them in different ways depending on al recipes...

I'd say, just set yourself objectives for production and bring in the ores for that. If you can, plan ahead, but don't bother too much if you don't know what's ahead (haven't had a complete playthrough yet)

[white knoll]

takim varmi

[inland roost]

never said its a good question 😅
me neither. And we have to keep in mind, uranium and those production is completely on a different playe on the planet

[white knoll]

Why is my game constantly crashing?

[frosty owl]

Ask in #old-questions-and-help

Example of an objective (numbers are just to show the proportions): make 5 smart plating/min. Those need 5 RIPs and 5 rotors, so you make a factory for 8 RIPs and 8 rotors: 5 for the plantings, 3 for you. Same all the way down the line: 8 RIPs need 16 iron plates so you make 20...

[inland roost]

Yeah that's the problem. You always need to make more resources than you need in further steps

[frosty owl]

You could finish the game with 1 pure node of every ore, if you don't mind small numbers on some things 🤷‍♂️ ...
Make it 2 nodes for iron, coal, copper, caterium, limestone and that's a lot more leeway

[inland roost]

yeah. You can do. but that needs time as f....

[frosty owl]

That's why I suggest to plan based on your space elevator'objectives. They include each and every item you could need to process, so ideally you can just upgrade whichever part of the production chain later when your needs change (how easy that can be depends on how you built things, but that's where experience kicks in)

[inland roost]

yes thats it. Rebuild my factory like 30 times in 60h

[frosty owl]

I've been literally building/rebuilding the same factory over the past ~300h of gameplay, so lemme tell you: if you fix yourself in making it perfect, you'll never reach the endgame even once
Focus totally on that after you know the game in full ^^

Part of the fun is also dealing with your past mistakes. Good way to see how you improved or rediscover old designs you made and forgot

[inland roost]

Yeah that's it, but I can't avoid doing that. I am a perfectionist .

We learn and we adapt

[frosty owl]

I feel you

V1 of my nuclear took me ~120h to near completion
Now V3 is about half done at 200+h

[proven prawn]

Going to be stuck rebuilding everything until 1.0 then have fun with that

[inland roost]

Satisfactory as perfectionist is....hard
But ngl rebuilding is also kind of fun

[frosty owl]

Zoop made it so

[inland roost]

YEEEES

[ashen girder]

I don't keep uranium in my factory. 😁 I do like my yellow pajamas though.

[wind spade]

Faster side belts = faster load time of a manifold

[tropic hawk]

Anyone find it disturbing that the suit the player model is fully enclosed, and yet we still need a gas mask to breath when the air gets toxic?

wouldn't that imply that the 'helmet' is actually the head of the player?

[feral valve]

OR, the helmet doesn't have filtering functions

acting more like a hard hat than gas mask

not to mention the HUD that displays inside the helmet

[tropic hawk]

I mean it does explain it, but I like my disturbing theory better

[feral valve]

i guessed as much

[ashen girder]

Except you can eat through it. 🤔

[tropic hawk]

more proof for my side

[ashen girder]

But when you try to drink coffee, it bonks on the glass... 🤔 🤔 🤔

[tropic hawk]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I never used the coffee cup before

[ashen girder]

You should. It makes me giggle. 😂

It actually only bonks sometimes. Othertimes she actually drinks from it.

[little sierra]

did they change this? I dont remember it needing coal

[alpine flint]

Ok so I had this orange route for a long time, and it is quite heavy with all the exits, making the trans who have to go to the green all the way in the back, stand in line too long.

So I figured I'd make an upper rail section so the trains that don't have to take the exits on the bottom floor, can just pass.

Howeverrr.. Now I built it, and they still take the orange route.

Is there any way to force trains to take the blue route, if they don't have to take an exit on the orange route?

[alpine flint]

I've played for at least 1 month with aluminum and I always needed it, also before update 5

[alpine flint]

Half a year ago it needed coal as well iirc. or at least something in the aluminum product line

[iron prairie]

There was a little switcheroo in U4.

Initially, the default recipe called for petroleum coke, with Electrode-Aluminum Scrap calling for coal.

[alpine flint]

aah yea coke!

[iron prairie]

With U4, the default now calls for coal, and Electrode-Aluminum Scrap calling for petrocoke.

[wind spade]

most likely by making the blue track shorter than orange track

[alpine flint]

darnit

[little sierra]

ah alright I just didnt remember it

[alpine flint]

what a wasted opportunity with the trains there

[cedar garnet]

hi im bad at math how do i figure out the clock speed for if i want this to consume exactly 5 reinforced plates/m i always end up just guessing and sliding the bar around until i get it but theres got to be a better way

all the calculators ive found u have to put in the end result i just want to put in the inputs and see what that makes

[wind spade]

5/3*100

[iron prairie]

That is incorrect.

[alpine flint]

oh wuuups

[iron prairie]

The base consumption is 3/min. The desired consumption is 5/min, so it's 5/3=1.666667 assemblers.

[alpine flint]

5/3 and divide by 2

[cedar garnet]

so i just divide desiredinput/currentinput*100?

[alpine flint]

no need to do *100 🙂

[wind spade]

*100 to get percent

[iron prairie]

Pretty much, with the 100 implied to be 100%. Weird way to do it: most players work backwards from desired outputs to required inputs.

[cedar garnet]

yeah i meant for the percent bc that makes more sense in my brain

[alpine flint]

5/3 = 1.6667 --> divide by 2 --> 0.83333 --> * 100 = 83.33333% (on 2 assemblers)

[cedar garnet]

right cool yeah i was just going to find the clock speed for one if i overclocked then just half it to underclock

thanks yall

[alpine flint]

that slurps more power!

power is exponential

output isn't

[iron prairie]

Joanne mentioned "divide by two", so she/he is planning to underclock a pair.

[cedar garnet]

wait 2 underclocked is less efficient than one overclocked?

[wind spade]

more power efficient

[wind spade]

they didn't? 🤔

[iron prairie]

It's more power-efficient to underclock multiple assemblers. Wtrfreak appeared to have accidentally thought you'd be overclocking one.

[thorn bane]

29MW vs 2x 11.9MW = 23.7MW

so 5MW difference which is kinda what ever
if you have the shards use them

[cedar garnet]

this is indeed what i meant. i only am hypothetically overclocking one in my head to then convert into 2 underclocked machines

[alpine flint]

constructor 100% = 4MW
constructor 50% = 1.3MW

[cedar garnet]

also just she/her please

[iron prairie]

Overall, power consumption or production is (clock rate/100%)^1.6.

This makes over/under-clocking power generation buildings a needless nightmare of taking logarithms.

[thorn bane]

but you also need 2 so its 2.6MW

[cedar garnet]

wait so now im confused which is more power efficient? underclocking 2 or overclocking one? i thought it was underclocking 2

[iron prairie]

Underclocking two.

[wind spade]

general rule of thumb:
from least to most power usage:

• underclock all buildings to same amount
• underclock one building and keep rest at 100
• overclock

[thorn bane]

1 @1.66 is 29MW
2 @0.866 is 24MW

[cedar garnet]

right ok so im good then

[thorn bane]

also building 3 and underclocking to even lower safes power

[gloomy palm]

does this make sense?
#off-topic-media message

[alpine flint]

(sorry to be annoying)
underclocking 8 to 20.833% is even better 🙃

[wind spade]

underclocking 167 to 1% is best 🤔

[alpine flint]

😆

[thorn bane]

but since power generation is easier than building more machines its always worth to overclock all the shards you have imo

[alpine flint]

At that point the energy required to create the resources for the 167 assemblers negates your power savings perhaps

[iron prairie]

Over a long enough period of time, that just gets amortized out.

[wind spade]

it's best to keep it for miners usually

[alpine flint]

haha for sure

[cedar garnet]

yeah im on a newish save so im trying to conserve power for now

[wind spade]

it's instant cost vs cost over time 🤷‍♂️

[alpine flint]

Then Joanne I'd suggest to aim for most machines on 50% or lower 🙂

[thorn bane]

ye i just meant all the extra ones you dont use for miners

[thorn bane]

no pls dont...
overclcok
the power save is minimal

[wind spade]

idk I usually don't recommend that, since you can instead use the extra power to build new stuff

[wind spade]

the power save can be A LOT

[alpine flint]

Finding all the slugs is a hassle for me so I'd like to save all my power shards for miners

[thorn bane]

but using shards > not using the shards

[wind spade]

not really.

if you clock everything at 250%, you're using more than twice as much power as if you just kept everything at 100%

[iron prairie]

Everybody has their own tolerance for underclocking; I tend to be on team "underclock only when necessary to make the inputs/outputs balanced".

[thorn bane]

but you also need multiple machines
the power loss at 250% is 73% compared to multiple machines

[wind spade]

that's already included

[thorn bane]

you said more than twice
its 27.7MJ instead of 16MJ
thats not twice as much

[gloomy palm]

michael jacksons

[iron prairie]

Venra does actually have the math more correct here.
(2.5^1.6)/2.5 does actually come out to 1.73

... which, combined with the cost in power slugs, is still more than enough for me to just build 2.5 buildings.

[wind spade]

sorry, misscounted
5 constructors at 100% use 20 MW, 2 constructors at 250% use 34.7 MW

still is a lot of power

[thorn bane]

but a coal power plant is 75MW
compared to that its nothing

[wind spade]

you also need to subtract the power needed to produce fuel and water

[feral valve]

i think a refinery goes from 40 to 137MW at 250%

[thorn bane]

again
but you also produce 2.5 as much
you cant comapre the power savings of making half as much

[thorn bane]

so 75 - 45/120 * 20 - 4
thats still 63.5 MW

[iron prairie]

30 and 130 MW, actually.

More usefully, assuming water extractors at 100% clock speed, coal plants lose 10% of their power to water extraction and thus only produce 67.5 MW, before coal extraction losses.

[feral valve]

umm, i currently produce 75Gm for a cost of 6k all machines at 100%. if i used 250% it would cost 25k iirc

[wind spade]

what's the -4?

[thorn bane]

pump

[feral valve]

that is not negligible fuel production cost

[wind spade]

and where's the miner?

[thorn bane]

oh forgot that

so - 5 * 15/60 thats 1.25 extra

[wind spade]

that's assuming mk1 on pure 🤷‍♂️ can have impure or mk2+

coal is 10MJ/piece on average

also the point is that yes, it's not that much power in these low numbers, but as soon as you get to setups that are more than just a few constructors, it suddenly means tapping two extra coal nodes just to have enough power to run everything at 250%. Instead of that you could use the coal to get more steel. Or use the power to build more setups

[thorn bane]

60 is normal

ok lets look at an example
youre building 70 constructors
you could build 70 at 100% or 47 at 150% and a coal power plant

[still trout]

i had to spend OCs on water extractors, because there was only a small lake and i needed more water than the pond provided at 100%

[thorn bane]

now you have to judge if its easier to build 23 constructors or 1 coal pwoer plant

in my opinion the coal is easier

[still trout]

but is it efficient?

[thorn bane]

and it gets even further if you use fuel or nuclear

[still trout]

that wasted power stacks up

and, wasting slugs

[thorn bane]

again
23 constructors
or 1 coal generator

[wind spade]

that's - finding extra node, connecting it with power, finding water, building whole coal plant, doing piping and pumps, making sure it works, etc.

it also wastes that node, you can't use it unless you find another source of power in the future

[iron prairie]

Worst-case scenario is Mk. III fully overclocked on impure, resulting in 130 MW power draw, or 26 MJ per coal extracted.

Overall, though, I would say two things.

1. Overclocking/underclocking production buildings, assuming infinite shard availability, is still a matter of taste and tolerance for building more power vs. more production buildings.
2. Shards are not infinite, and large factories can easily have well over a thousand buildings, which would require doggo farms to provide for.

[thorn bane]

sure but freaking 23!!!!

[wind spade]

shards are technically infinite

[thorn bane]

im only talkign about the extra shards you ahve that you dont use for mining
not using those is a crime imo

[still trout]

i have 7 in my inv

[iron prairie]

You started in the grasslands? To the north of the grasslands, there's a quartet of normal coal nodes (one of which is blocked by a cracked boulder) and a big enough lake for the water.

[wind spade]

I'm pretty sure that I can build 23 machines faster than find a coal node that I won't use and make a coal power plant

[iron prairie]

It's a big old crater, probably the best spot to build initial coal power for a grasslands start.

[still trout]

no, the water was used for my copper plant, at the titan forest with 3 pure cop

[thorn bane]

but its not "find a coal node" its add a coal generator to your manifold
just as 23 machines is not "go to a new location, build a new foundation, decorate some more"

[iron prairie]

... Belt/truck/train the copper to a more plentiful supply of water?

[wind spade]

that is only true in case you have extra coal and water... which you usually don't

most people use the whole node

[still trout]

just place a few more machines, i'd much rather that than waste some coal

[thorn bane]

but you aslo dont have extra space for 23 machines

[wind spade]

space is infinite

relatively speaking

[still trout]

nah, i literally used max 9 ocs its fine

[thorn bane]

and again
if you comapre this with fuel / nuclear the power savings is completly minimal

then its like 1 nuclear vs 20000 constructors

[still trout]

why waste resources when you can build a few more machines

[thorn bane]

cause 23 is not a few
and 15 coal is not much resources

[still trout]

also i dont wanna pipe 3 mk5 belts and 1 mk5 caterium just for water

[still trout]

23 is a few

[thorn bane]

youre comparign it to 1 coal generator....

[still trout]

i built 700 machines for my latest factory

[thorn bane]

by that point in the game your whole base is 23 machines

[wind spade]

actually, only 360 constructors vs 1 nuclear plant

[feral valve]

umm, on that matter, i recommend to find a video fo imkibitz where you can see that almost all the power he produces with his many power plants goes towards the fuel production using overclocked machines

[thorn bane]

im getting 778

[wind spade]

250% vs 100%

[thorn bane]

ah i was lookign at 150%

[wind spade]

150 is bullshit. If you really want to OC, then do 250% and go all the way

otherwise it's just faster to do 100%

[feral valve]

lol, go hard or go home

[thorn bane]

no? its not black and white
just as saving power is not build 100 at 1%

[wind spade]

also, have you accounted for the 50 times you have to open a machine and add a shard and change it's clock speed?

[still trout]

if it's not inconvinient, i never oc anything other than miners

[thorn bane]

there is a point at which the power becomes more valuable than the extra machines
if power was expensive youd underclock everything to 1%
if power was free youd overclcok everything to max
and imo power is so free that 250 is fine

[thorn bane]

ctrl c ctrl v

[wind spade]

still has to open machines

[still trout]

this is literally black and white

[wind spade]

and also, still has to FIND THE SHARDS

[thorn bane]

you have to set the recipe anyway

[thorn bane]

well im explaining what black and white are

[feral valve]

umm, i'm not sure the settings copying inserts shards, and without shards you can't overclock

[thorn bane]

im jsut saying if you had infinite shards youd use them

[thorn bane]

it does

[feral valve]

o.O

[thorn bane]

so its actually the same amount of clicks as you paste the recipe anyway

[wind spade]

what are you trying to save anyway?

• power? don't OC/underclock
• space? OC to 250%
• resources? OC to 250%
• build time? OC to 250%
• resources/min? don't OC/underclock

[thorn bane]

time

[wind spade]

-> OC to 250%

[thorn bane]

cause building 23 constructors takes longer than 1 coal generator

but why would you not recommend being time efficeint?

i mean time in total including building the power plant

[wind spade]

because being time efficient usually means not being efficient in other parameters

[still trout]

yup

[thorn bane]

the only metric to give as advice is "this lets you progress faster" anything else doesnt make sense imo

[wind spade]

and apart from the time you can spend gaming, you're pretty much only limited by the map resources and your CPU

[wind spade]

majority of players don't want to "finish the game", but "build what they set themselves as goal"

[still trout]

^^

i like playing the game fast, but not inefficient

i placed down 156 refineries at 100% for copper refinement

[thorn bane]

ok lets look at this discussion
joanne asked a question and wtrfreeak responded with dont do that
he didnt give a reason but im guessing his reason is this is not time efficient since you will spend more time building power
but thats just wrong

[still trout]

the reason he responded that is (likely) because wasting power shards and power

[wind spade]

the reason is you'll use more power, which is cost over time, instead of using more resources to build it, which is instant cost

we have infinite resources, we don't have infinite resources/min

[still trout]

building materials are practically free anyway

[thorn bane]

you mean slugs as building cost?
because building materials are really w/e

[wind spade]

cost of power = more coal/fuel needed = less coal/fuel available to produce materials

[thorn bane]

well he didnt say "dont waste a power shard for that"
he said "even if you have a shard i still wouldnt do it cuase they slurp power"

[wind spade]

which is what I'm saying as well

[still trout]

ocs slurp power very much

[thorn bane]

but the time you save from building is easly enough to make up for the power loss

[still trout]

mk3 miner ocs hurt to put in since power cons is like 4x 100%

[wind spade]

by overclocking a building, you save some building materials (which are essentially free and infinite), but you use more power (which means less materials over time)

[thorn bane]

it just shifts your time from 70% building 30% power to 60% building 40% power
but the total is lower imo

[still trout]

but you still have to find the slugs

[thorn bane]

but its all about the time
you could just spend time getting more resources over time

[still trout]

slugs take lotsa time to find

[wind spade]

but you can't. There's a hard limit on how much of those you can get

[thorn bane]

again
talking about the case where you have slugs

we are talking about a situation where you have coal power plants
you are not capped at that point

[still trout]

i thought we were talking about total time spent

[thorn bane]

and agian at that point you want to reduce fps so you overclock
but thats not the example i want to talk about

[wind spade]

it's never too late to optimise your factories

if you just OC everything now and then have to redo it later because you don't have enough coal, then it's way slower than building it at 100% the first time

[thorn bane]

im talking about a person that found some slugs, is on coal power and is unsure weather to use them in the factory
and in my opinion tha anwser to that is yes as it allows you do get to fuel/nuclear faster

[wind spade]

also if it's a new player, it's better to teach them "OCing uses more power" than "yeah just do it"

[thorn bane]

but all these setups you could overclock are all remporary anyway

[thorn bane]

thats the point i disagree

imo its use slugs for miners
if you ahve extras use them for machines

[wind spade]

you disagree that we have to teach them they use more power?

[still trout]

it's better to teach people the + and - for everything rather than a black-and-white answer

make your own conclusions

[thorn bane]

sure but this was about somone suggesting not to do it because of the power
thats not pointing out the pros and cons
thats just bad advice

[wind spade]

I'm pretty much always answering this:

• overclocking uses way more power than if you would just build the machines normally
• for miners it's always good to overclock because map resources are limited (nothing else really is)

and then I let them make their own decision.

I definitely disagree with answering "sure just do it" without telling them what will that cost them. The amount of people asking why they don't have enough power (because they overclocked machines) is way bigger than number of people asking what to do with all their slugs

[still trout]

greeny with the perfect answers

[thorn bane]

well only listing the cons makes it seem like you dont want them to do it (im guessing you dont want people to overclock their buildings)

[ashen girder]

"It costs power" is the only thing truly relevant, though, because the rest of your pros and cons flow from that same thing.

[wind spade]

I mean I could list the pros as well, but the obvious "machine runs faster" is always known 🤷‍♂️

(if it's not, I mention it)

[thorn bane]

but the pro is bigger than the con imo
the amount of time you save is bigger than the amount of time you need for making power

[wind spade]

it's the same as you suggesting them to do it. No reason added, just subjective opinions, same as us.

[still trout]

you've said that like 10 times

[thorn bane]

also just mentioning "it costs exponentially more power" is different than "the power save is so minimal compared to the build time"

[wind spade]

if we consider new person that's at coal power, time is what they have most of. They progress slowly, learn the game, redo their setups over and over again until they work like they want.

They definitely don't value "fast progress" as anything useful

[still trout]

if we stop talking about power save for 100% and start talking about power waste for OC

[thorn bane]

99/100 time when someone asks for advice they want the answer that is most time efficient

[wind spade]

press X to doubt

[still trout]

X

[ashen girder]

X

[thorn bane]

if i ask "should i use all mk1 belts or mk5 belts" im asking which is more time efficient

[still trout]

you don't need to ask that

[wind spade]

most people want "efficient" without knowing what kind of efficiency they are looking for. If they are given choices (time, resources, space, power), they mostly respond power, space or resources. I haven't got almost any people asking for time efficiency

[still trout]

time efficiency? you should be a speedrunner @thorn bane

[wind spade]

yeah, except speedrunners and other people that just want to finish the game (e.g. you've played 5 times already and just want to unlock everything)

[thorn bane]

idk i feel like thats always the intention of such questions
lemme find some examples

[wind spade]

well it's better to not assume the intention anyway

[still trout]

good luck with that

[wind spade]

so either answer "here's pros and cons", or ask "could you clarify what kind of efficiency do you want"

[still trout]

smart greeny

[wind spade]

but what you did ("yeah, just OC the machines") is no different from "don't do it because of power".

actually it's even worse because we at least provided a reason (power)

[thorn bane]

im not saying "just oc" im saying "the time you save building less machines is greater than the time you lose by building more power"

[alpine flint]

X

I so wished I knew about the overclocking = more power thing when I started out

how many times i walked back to my power plant... jeez I hated that

[wind spade]

which is only true in your specific setup (you have a manifold that has extra coal and water and you can just hook another gen to it). Most people use whole nodes and modular builds, so they don't have extra resources available and they would have to find another node (and maybe even water source)

[thorn bane]

i guess its just biased because time efficiency questions are just the ones i answer
stuff like should i build more than 250 generators or go to nuclear

[still trout]

again, time saved is rare to value higher than resource efficiency

[alpine flint]

Beginners never make those setups of 250 gens xD

[thorn bane]

begginers also dont go to nuclear

[alpine flint]

I think you are biased in your vast experience Venra!

[still trout]

i just rush nuclear

[wind spade]

beginners also don't have extra power

[thorn bane]

yes because they spend all their time building constructors isntead /s

[alpine flint]

exactly

[wind spade]

they produce more for same power cost 🤷‍♂️

[alpine flint]

beginners 100% make too many production facilities in relation to power generation facilities

so advising them to overclock doesn't help there

[thorn bane]

isnt manifold vs balancer a time efficeincy question?
"sure you could balance it but its faster to manfiold it"

[still trout]

no

[thorn bane]

ok then whats your reason for using manifolds instead of balancers

[arctic rose]

That easier part you editted out is the reason

[thorn bane]

but "easier" in that sense i kinda implied as fast i think idk...

[still trout]

balancers take up more space than is necessary, manifolds are faster to build, take less space BUT resource consumption is the same

[thorn bane]

"manifolds are faster to build" thats time efficeincy

[still trout]

that's not the main point

[thorn bane]

eeeh it kinda is

[fierce ruin]

can you give me a picture or example of a balancer?

[thorn bane]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Balancer

[still trout]

if you're this keen about time efficiency, uninstalling the game is the most time-efficient

[alpine flint]

Even after 500 hours I still use manifold xD

[thorn bane]

being time efficeint is the fun part about games for me
ofcourse many people are different

[still trout]

manifolds are superior

[wind spade]

Expandability, simplicity, most of the time space savings, can support multiple clock speeds/recipes without hassle

[still trout]

even more reasons :o

[arctic rose]

Not really tho? It also depends on what you like doing in the game. I for one sure as heck hate making power stuff, qnd would rather build a hundred constructors at 1% to save power than a couple 250% ones and have to go make more power faster

[thorn bane]

"expandability"
both can be expanded it just takes longer (time efficiency)

[alpine flint]

I just love how a simple question from Joanna got us all started 🤣

[still trout]

venranex just tilted thats all

[thorn bane]

i know
I love it xD

[wind spade]

Fair, it's "simple expandability"

[thorn bane]

hm i feel like the faster to expand is more important than simple to expand but ye ofc you have both

also "simple" is also hard as you can just spend 10h figuring out the perfect setup

[wind spade]

Again, you're in minority with prioritising time efficiency. Doesn't make you wrong, but you're still a minority which means that most people probably won't think the same way

Hence why I just list pros and cons

[thorn bane]

im not against pros and cons
I was against the comment of "dont do this cause power"

[wind spade]

(yes, I also say "I wouldn't recommend it", but not without giving a reason)

[wind spade]

Again, I've given my reasons why I don't recommend it.

[alpine flint]

I still think 'dont do this cause power' is a valid advise. If the person in question doesn't give 2 shits about power, he/she can put this advise aside 😄

because I agree; if you have unlimited power, overclock away!!

[thorn bane]

idk i feel like most people dont really understand how small the power saving is

[arctic rose]

Fair, but the people asking the question likely dont have the power to spare

If we assume they are a beginner without a huge power setup at least

[ashen girder]

How small what power saving is? 🤔 I must've missed an important detail.

Because 3x the power cost isn't small..

[thorn bane]

im pretty sure she had 5MW extra

[thorn bane]

alright
lets say you wann abuild 70 constructors
you have the option of building 70 at 100% or 47% at 150%
how big would you guess is the power save?
(no math just quick guessing, 1 consturctor is 4MW)

[ashen girder]

Why.. no math? 😂

[thorn bane]

cause the math turns out to be 1 coal power plant (75MW)

[ashen girder]

Can I at least do, like, 70*4 and 47*6?

[arctic rose]

Math is kinda the way to get the answer tho...

[ashen girder]

Although I'm pretty sure it's more like 47*7..

[thorn bane]

well i spoiled xd
but ye pretty sure everyone would expect it to be far more since 280MW and 4x eponential power saving omg

[ashen girder]

So it's a 75MW difference on a 280MW installation?

[thorn bane]

yep

[ashen girder]

And you think that's a small difference?

[thorn bane]

yes

[ashen girder]

You think a 30% difference is small?

[thorn bane]

compared to 23 constructors vs 1 coal generator

thats kinda the point
the absolute save is low

[ashen girder]

I mean, are you comparing 135*2? 😂

That isn't low though. That's a huge save dude.

[thorn bane]

1 coal generator vs 23 constructors?

[fringe pawn]

hides his 250% clocked blenders and refineries.

[arctic rose]

We'll put you on blast later /s

[ashen girder]

How are you going to just build 1 coal generator?

[thorn bane]

hides his 100000MW power graph

[ashen girder]

It's really 1 coal generator, plus coal, plus belts, plus water extractor, plus pipes.

And that's assuming coal.

[arctic rose]

We are assuming coal, right?

[ashen girder]

Fuel is even more complicated to "just add one more generator".

[thorn bane]

i mean so are the 23 constructors
you need more space need to figure out the logistics
and most of the time you already have pipes setup for coal you just need to some stuff

[ashen girder]

The difference is the 23 constructors are where they need to be. Assuming you already tap coal efficiently, you'd suggesting they go find a new coal node and set up.

Sure, if you only put 3 coal gens on a coal node, just.. add a coal gen.

[thorn bane]

well its 1 generator
1 node is way more than 1 generator

[ashen girder]

But you're making a massive assumption that you just happen to have enough extra coal just laying around.

[thorn bane]

a new power setup is way more than 23 constructors then

[ashen girder]

And water, for the love of god. 😂

[arctic rose]

And what about when you need steel qnd all your coal goes to power?

[thorn bane]

ofcourse it depends but atelast imo getting more power when you already have a coal power plant is not that complicated

[arctic rose]

Is this why we have the biofuel to coal recipes?

[fringe pawn]

I've kept the beacon that I marked "ocean" when I was exploring the world for the first time, because up to that point I thought water was super rare.

[ashen girder]

Then you're building your coal power plants wrong my guy.

[thorn bane]

well in percentage its build 50% more machines or get 27% more power

[arctic rose]

50% more machine everytime

[ashen girder]

Those.. aren't percentages you can compare in any sensical fashion. 😂

[arctic rose]

Bigger factory means more not so justified time playing the game what youre meant to be doing: building a factory

[thorn bane]

generators are not factories? o.O
am i the only one that thinks making power is the same as building a factory?

[arctic rose]

Not imo lol

[thorn bane]

looking at my turbofuel factorio ive had quite alot of fun building it

[warm carbon]

Hi, short questen: How many Nuclear Power Plans can i run with 200 Uranium / min?

[fierce ruin]

alot

[arctic rose]

You do you my dood, this is where it comes down to personal preference

[thorn bane]

24 if you have alts

[fringe pawn]

All alternate recipes available? With or without running plutonium powered reactors as well?

[wind spade]

Depends on recipes

[warm carbon]

is a "fresh" save

[thorn bane]

if you dont have alts 10

[warm carbon]

thanks

[tropic hawk]

that is an error in math. Using default recipes, you can get 20 uranium rods/minute, and each plant takes up 0.2/min, so you can actually have 100 plants using 2000 uranium/minute.

[thorn bane]

yes? 10 nuclear power plants if you have 200 Uranium / min

[fringe pawn]

The 200 uranium/minute number intrigues me. That doesn't line up with MK2 or MK3 miners at 100% or 250% clocks.

[tropic hawk]

my bad, I misread the numbers

[thorn bane]

meanwhile me having 333.333 uranium/min

[frosty owl]

That's 1/3 of a MK3 miner at 250%, clean math

[ashen girder]

Filthy repeating decimals.

[frosty owl]

I feel like I missed a convo about balancing... Oh well

[fringe pawn]

Why would you be overclocking in that case?

[tropic hawk]

13.7 reactors roughly

[thorn bane]

TIL im the only one that cares about how fast you get through the game
what a lonely word

[thorn bane]

40 with alts

[frosty owl]

Why wouldn't I overclock miners? O.o

Ohh, sorry, I misunderstood the context @fringe pawn

[thorn bane]

well my uranium is bad so that my plutonium is awesome
4 loops -> 8 manfuacturers perfectly at 💯 %

[frosty owl]

You are the minority!

[frosty owl]

They will run out or overflow sooner or later (probably later)

[arctic rose]

Sounds like a problem for future venranex

[thorn bane]

nah my 333.33 uranium balancer is actually perfect since its not restricting by overclocking but by balancing
so it will actually never run out

[thorn bane]

god its so weird when people call me venra

[arctic rose]

Your whole name was said tho.... do you prefer the v r and n to be capitalized everytime?

[ashen girder]

You reap what you sow. 😛

[thorn bane]

im ZyRaNex
@frosty owl is Vencam
so now im VenRaNex
and hes ZyRaCam

[thorn bane]

i didnt start this?

[frosty owl]

.... Don't tell me...
500*2/3 to get the exact amount?

[arctic rose]

Ah okey. I am now confused

[tropic hawk]

i was doing with defaults

[ashen girder]

Nobody else changed your name for you..

[thorn bane]

120+120+40+40+13.33333

[tropic hawk]

ouch

[thorn bane]

ye i figured out that that miner at most makes 300 xd

[frosty owl]

I must retract my previous statement about your nuclear backing up or starving

[ashen girder]

I'm confused.. that looks like it has 1 input and 1 output. 🤔

[thorn bane]

yep
780 in
333.333 out

[ashen girder]

Oh, wtf.

[thorn bane]

using mk2 belts to limit the speed

[ashen girder]

You made a brake.

[arctic rose]

This looks like it was physically painful to figure out how to do... please explain it all

[frosty owl]

Btw, the machines processing the 333 uranium (or their clocks, rather) are set to non-repeating numbers, right @thorn bane

[tropic hawk]

its not complicated, just tedious. he used belt speeds and the 2 or 3 splits and mergers, after that it is just repetitive addition and division.

[arctic rose]

Thats the frazzling part lol

[frosty owl]

Every complicated thing is made out of (arguibly) tedious parts

[tropic hawk]

fair enough.

[thorn bane]

ok so we can limit by 60 120 and 270 using mk1/2/3 belts
270 is out of the question since 63.333 is just as bad
so we use mk2 belts
so we get 333.333-2 * 120 = 93.333
now we want to limit to 93.333 by re merging the rest 26.6666
(120 goes into the belt 26.666 gets merged back to the start)
but getting 26.666 out of 120 is actually pretty easy you just divide 120/3 -> 40 and then 40/3 = 13.3333
so we merge 40 + 40 +13.33 for the output and 13.33+13.33 for the backmerging (again 93.333+26.666 = 120)

[thorn bane]

actually its set to 33.3334 percent but since its only getting supply for 33.3333 it will just idle a bit every 100h

[frosty owl]

So they're starving!!!

[tropic hawk]

it idles, therefore it fails! (kidding, that is really efficient)

[frosty owl]

Y-you lied to me

[thorn bane]

but they are not starving?
it would work if i just build 1000 machines in a big manifold

because all the uranium is getting processed

[frosty owl]

If they idle every now and then, I call that "starving" xD
It's not 100% all the time (oh no!)

[tropic hawk]

they aren't. we are messing with your tiny flaw

[thorn bane]

honestly i should have left it at 100%

[tropic hawk]

maybe.

[frosty owl]

Your FPS would agree xD

Why 33 rather than 50 or something? What was the need/intention?

[tropic hawk]

just looking at #old-questions-and-help, it looks like it is exploding.

[thorn bane]

honestly last time i made 2 UFR/min so this time i just wanted a bit more so i planned for 8
i didnt even look at the numbers i just put them into the calculator
i knew wastes of 100 are good for processing though

i was so pissed when i realized that node only gives 300/min xD

[tropic hawk]

here I am thinking I am nuts for making a Nuclear plant that can have any item input and using power switches to remotely throttle everything...

[final spoke]

yo peeps

anyone done the math on fused quickwire vs quickwire?

I need both quickwire and wire and i'm trying to decide between fused both or just fused wire + quickwire

[tropic hawk]

FQW is better if you have spare copper. if you are strapped for copper, technically QW is better

[final spoke]

or caterium wire + quickwire

[tropic hawk]

now that... is a question...

give me desired numbers of both and I will run the numbers rn.

[final spoke]

for now I only need stuff like ~1.5k wire and ~2k qckwire

[frosty owl]

Processing waste in 100s is indeed convenient... So did you clock the rods to match that? XD

Myself, I found it more convenient to go for 300 uranium ->360 waste which means:
12 UFR manifacturers at 100 and 3.6 waste-processing setups (each takes 100 waste/min in)
Naturally this meant 3 accelerators at 120% for me, no way I'm making 4

[thorn bane]

i think caterium wire is pretty shit
always use fused quickwire
fused quickwire is a personal choice

[final spoke]

but i'll definitely need more for motors factory

fused quickwire consumes a lot of copper, thats why I am thinking about it

I am eyeing about 1200 caterium/minute with pure caterium ingot

[thorn bane]

but theres alot of copper around
not so much quickwire

[tropic hawk]

1500 W and 2000 QW, please hold...

[frosty owl]

I say: if you're willing to use iron wire, you can use all the copper you want for fused quickwire and any leftover copper or caterium for either fused wire or normal wire
Any lack of wire can be filled with iron wire

[thorn bane]

in U4 i made 1.7027 uranium fuel rods and 0.4257 plutonium fuel rods
because i limited myself to 1/29.6 of the resources so i only had 71 uranium
didnt balance back then though xd

[ashen girder]

You need a lot of copper for powder and sheets tho..

Although you can use iron to extend that copper. 😂

[thorn bane]

eh not really
sheets are pretty cheap with steamed
and copper powder is special since you only need it once

[ashen girder]

Once.. 200,000 times...

[final spoke]

thats a good thought

[thorn bane]

fuck iron wire though
1 fused wire assembler makes 90/min
1 iron wire constructor makes 22.5/min

[final spoke]

im not making nuclear power anytime soon tbf

[thorn bane]

so unless you wanna build 4x the machines dont use iron wire

[final spoke]

I've still got enough turbofuel for about 50 more fuel gens

[thorn bane]

fused wire is life fused wire is love
fuck iron wire
totally not my personal opinion

[final spoke]

and I'm not at the current limit

[tropic hawk]

FOR OPTIMIZING:
Caterium: Pure Cat. Ingot, Fused QW and Wire/Iron Wire
Copper: Pure Cop. Ingot, QW, and Fused Wire
Both: Fused QW, Iron wire

[final spoke]

aha, thanks for the insight

[thorn bane]

btw its also nice that you can make fused wire and fused quickwire from the same material
and fused wire is a bit like steel screw in that you can send the ingridients in low throughput and then expand them on site
also have i mentioned that i hate iron wire

[final spoke]

so there's just under ~10k caterium on the map with mk5 belts

9660 to be precise

[thorn bane]

its 11040 afaik

[final spoke]

ah yes 8 / 8

i counted 7 / 7

[thorn bane]

but you dont need that much of it
i only used it for caterium computer ai limiters and infused uranium cells

also pure caterium is supper nice
way better than pure iron or pure copper

[final spoke]

im thinking caterium computer & caterium boards

and use the quartz for other stuff

[tropic hawk]

do you mean neater numbers? because other than that, Pure copper/iron has the numbers to beat it easily

[final spoke]

or invest the quartz in computers and use silica boards and crystal computers

[thorn bane]

hm ye thats honestly the most preferential alt decision there is
i use silicon this playthrough but used caterium previously and honestly they are so similar

[tropic hawk]

I save quartz for crystal oscillators, but you do you.

I burn caterium in my computers...

[thorn bane]

no machine count
you need way less caterium refineries than you need copper refineries
just because caterium is used in low quantities

[tropic hawk]

That depends on the pioneer.

[final spoke]

yea but quartz can be used in motors too

same for caterium

[final spoke]

so it boils down to crystal computers and rigour motors or caterium computers and electric motors

[ashen girder]

No Turbo Pressure?

Wait. That's turbomotor. Duh.

[tropic hawk]

is that the rigor motor or electric motor? I haven't run numbers on those yet, and by and large, I still think Motor is the best recipe

[final spoke]

yea, next step

[thorn bane]

i dont think crystal computer is good
imo silicon circuit -> cat comput is wway better

i used rigour motor but it hoenstly doesnt need much quartz

[tropic hawk]

I do cat cir -> cat com, but when in rome...

[final spoke]

silicon boards are amazing indeed, but I am not sure I want to mix in both quartz and caterium

so i am thinking caterium boards -> caterium computers

which later I use for supercomputers in solid-state supercomputer variant

[thorn bane]

btw caterium circuit boards are awesome if you dont like making copper sheets out of 80% water

[tropic hawk]

TL;DR of my caterium usage: Caterium is for computers.

[thorn bane]

well ai limiters

[final spoke]

yeah, looks like it

[tropic hawk]

Making copper sheets is fine, and fun.

[final spoke]

I once built 160 refineries just to make iron ingots

so I'm familiar with RefinerySimulator9000 for pure recipes 😄