math-and-meta

[topaz hedge]

this is what i got for diluted fuel

it's still 9GW.

[vast jungle]

ahh... I calcualted a diluted fuel blender for 100 Input, not 100 Output

so double the blenders

[river night]

i was going to say, the turbofuel number of blenders also seem off

[vast jungle]

okay, I should redo them in the sf-tools

[topaz hedge]

roughly.. but the amount of effort required for 9 refineries and 8 blenders...

[river night]

but base diluted fuel is definitely simple with blenders

[vast jungle]

(did them by hand)

[topaz hedge]

this cements the point that turbofuel is not worth the effort anymore :/

[river night]

you still get twice the power out of it, granted by quadrupling the number of refineries

[patent briar]

Has anyone recorded numbers for how fast you travel running on Mk5 belts with blade runners, compared to stuff like tubes?

oh nevermind theres a table on the wiki page dope

[topaz hedge]

this isn't twice the power.

if you burn all the oil and make turbofuel out of it, yes it's a nice chunk of power.

[patent briar]

Is there not a more efficient way to convert the oil to fuel closer to 100%? Or is that the most fuel you can get from oil?

[river night]

you can make that 600 turbofuel by adding coal, but thats certainly eating more resources

[topaz hedge]

but for the average player/effort vs powered gained is so small compared to just burning fuel. that's really the point I'm trying to make.

[topaz hedge]

it's hennings numbers. the ratio of power in fuel vs turbo blend wouldn't change no matter how much oil you throw at it.

[vast jungle]

so the strategy to get through Tier 6 might be a hunt for Packaged Diluted Fuel and build an additional Fuel-Powerplant (keep the coal)... maybe another one when I get the Blenders in Tier 7... and then look for nuclear setup ^^

[patent briar]

I wouldnt recommend packaged diluted fuel, after looking at the absurd number of machines it demands, its silly

[topaz hedge]

I'm looking to hire a player to refuel my nuclear setup with sulfuric acid once a week lol

[patent briar]

I just personally built a giant coal power plant back at like, Tier 2, and it has been carrying me all the way to Tier 8

[topaz hedge]

stupid fluid bug.

[vast jungle]

hmm

[river night]

i build my computer factory at 300 oil, used some of that oil to make rubber for computers, and the remainder goes into 100-something fuel gens now with diluted setup, that way I could build in stages and catch the power needs of the computer factory at the same time

[patent briar]

32 Coal Generators only needs 4x pure coal nodes (effectively, I am using 3 pure and 2 normals)

[vast jungle]

getting to T7 with coal sounds a bit horrible ^^

[river night]

32 coal gens would never carry my factory, i like building big 😄

[patent briar]

Nah not really, I am about to hit T8 and I am at just shy of 4k MW

[topaz hedge]

I did it, and did the golden cup unlocks on coal and coke only..

[patent briar]

I build pretty big

[topaz hedge]

I needed about 140 coal gens. or whatever 12GW is.

[river night]

if you dont even consume 4GW, then all your bigness is apparently from foundations, not machines 😄

[topaz hedge]

it was about 50/50 coal and coke power.

[patent briar]

I build my stuff to utilize Mk5 belts, but then underclock to handle the actual belts I currently have

[vast jungle]

I tried not to build that big in my 2nd playthrough... and I am hitting the 3 GW limit soon with running factories (and I am still working on the T5/6 stuff)

[patent briar]

then just fix my clock rates and belts as I unlock Miner Mk2 and Miner Mk3

[topaz hedge]

I only consume 4GW >.>

I underclock all my machines to 1% including extractors. maximum efficiency!

[patent briar]

Heres a pic of my Motor Factory as an example. It will eventually consume I believe a total of 1.1GW on its own once I upgrade its belts to Mk5s shortly and tick up its clock speeds to handle the new throughput

All of that combined is just motors

But because of underclocking it consumes substantially less... for now

[topaz hedge]

how did you get glass roof? also very nice

[patent briar]

awesome shop

[topaz hedge]

Odd.. I'll look again

[lunar venture]

It's under the customizer after you unlock the FISCIT roofs and can make windows

[patent briar]

which does require researching the quartz branch and unlocking silica

[topaz hedge]

train ride to where the awesome shop and tickets are...

[lunar venture]

psh. make a new one(s) :P

[grave tartan]

@topaz hedge What's the fluid bug with Sulfric acid that's giving you grief?

[lunar venture]

tickets are shared between all the sinks, so you just need to power it up

[topaz hedge]

I lose a little each time i load my save.

I don't have any screws. and I'm not going to craft them lol

[vast jungle]

just build an additional local Awesome Shop where you are

[grave tartan]

Oh, that bug. Yeah, i tend to make sure my liquids are overproductive whenever i can

[vast jungle]

if necessary build an additional local sink to get the current tickets

[grave tartan]

Just because it's hell otherwise

[topaz hedge]

I will not touch my 16k screw/min factory

[topaz hedge]

that's fine for everything else, but with sulfuric acid on default uranium cell it's a loop. so if you overproduce the system will lockup.

[vast jungle]

liquid feedback can be a hell of its own

[grave tartan]

There are ways around that, but they require careful tweaking of inputs/outputs

Which is just urrrrgh.

Personally, i'm just using the recipe that takes raw sulfur, since that's both more productive and... you knwo. No sulfric acid loop

[topaz hedge]

do you remember what tab of shop?

[topaz hedge]

easiest way is to feed a blender with only the waste acid.. then you'll have no problems. I completely forgot about the waste acid until I had turned everything on. so I had to go and make it work and tune it while everything was nice and radioactive.

[grave tartan]

Yeah, i built a water feedback loop for an aluminumn plant once, and honestly, never again. I'll just use wet concrete sinks

[topaz hedge]

this is a u4 experimental setup. it predates infused uranium cell being fixed lol

[grave tartan]

@topaz hedge Oof. That bites, you have my sympathy.

[topaz hedge]

it' is what it is. I thought about fixing it a few times. but it works well enough as long as I visit it everyonce in a while. hug the glowing bean, and drop some packaged acid into it

[grave tartan]

JUst to check, what's the issue with liquids and 600m3 thing? I know it's a problem/can loose liquid, but i'm unsure on the exact issue.

[topaz hedge]

sometimes the pipes just won't handle 600m3/min and changing the shape of it slightly can fix or break it

[grave tartan]

Gotcha.

[topaz hedge]

it's really finnicky. and they can only handle up to ~575 or so with 100% certainty. after that it may or may not.

i found the roofs.. lol that wasen't there the other day

if it was ig I'm just blind

[oblique hollow]

That's only true for long mk 2s

Short mk 2s can certainly do 600 pretty consistently

[lunar venture]

it's under customizer -> roofs

[topaz hedge]

I found it lol

ty though

[thorn bane]

4GW is not big
i was at 6GW and i think i build pretty small
my usual recommendation is between 7.5GW and 37.5GW (50-250 gens) depending on how big you build

[vast jungle]

I once build a "somewhat looped" Aluminium setup... use the waste-stuff of three Aluminum Refineries to fuel a fourth one... that kinda worked

[bright nova]

I attempted to loop the extra 120 water /m from the al scrap refinery, however even with the right amount of pumps it's just backing up, so fun times

[grave tartan]

@vast jungle THat's actually how mine works, somewhat!

I have one Sloppy Alumina factory that's fed by a water extractor. It feeds into four Electrode Scrap refineries. The waste water from them is fed back into three more sloppy alumina factories... that all feed back into the same four electrode scrap refineries.

yeah, extrators and waste in the same loop just do not work

[bright nova]

Yikes, ok that's good to know

[vast jungle]

instead having them ALL in a loop, keep at least fresh-water and recycled-water separate

[bright nova]

Casually rebuilds their entire AL setup

[vast jungle]

even with valves it can be a pain to mix fresh and recycled

[thorn bane]

just use a VIP
mine https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nN7lceueOQClan9NDvEnfBso8sHd1DBlG-qDaMXUrY8/edit#
mkgalleons https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MdZ8Xr8P_SF_FL7B6WDjCZGS-x9Cwt-x/view

[vast jungle]

yes, but this depends on some implementation details... and I am not sure it would keep working if they start fixing stuff with pipes

[grave tartan]

Goddamit bot. >.>

[bright nova]

oof

[patent briar]

For a VIP btw, you want your "recycled" water on the bottom pipe, and your extractor "fresh" water to the top pipe right?

[thorn bane]

yes

[grave tartan]

Skye - icant send you links direct, but i can send you a decent screenie of how my aluminum factory is laid out

at least for hte Bauxite -> Scrap setup, which is the hard bit

[bright nova]

my current nightmare of a setup

[thorn bane]

this is like saying youre not using smart splitters because it depends on implementation details

[patent briar]

I feel like the setup still wants some way to also emergency offload any additional water, because it seems like there is potential for that setup to eventually just fill up accidently if both ends are filling

[patent briar]

Well no, because smart splitters arent relying on just a quirk of the games engine to happen to work

[grave tartan]

Honestly though, i think in general you should just build a concrete sink system. It's simpler, you always need concrete, and it's easy enough to figure out how much it's producing

[thorn bane]

atleast with my design i havent had that happen
and ive tested it ALOT

[patent briar]

CSS may "fix" the trick to make the pipes work, and suddenly all VIPs are broken

[grave tartan]

and if you dont need concrete, it's a steady drip of points

[thorn bane]

but mah 💯 resource efficiency

[grave tartan]

The cost is mostly power/bringing in the limestone

[vast jungle]

smart splitters have defined behavior by CSS... priority-mixing of pipes not...

[grave tartan]

Limestone is plentiful and you can still intergrate the concrete produced into other production chains!

[bright nova]

Yeah, I need to start taking out the dune desert limestone deposits, however I have a tonne of concrete in my storage system back in my starterbase

[vast jungle]

but "wet concrete" = "more refineries" 😉

[bright nova]

and hypertube cannons make it easy

[patent briar]

Theoretically you can do it with any resources @grave tartan and chances are, theres at least one of copper, iron, limestone, or quartz nearby

[thorn bane]

i think the VIP is exactly the same

[patent briar]

Using any of the "pure" recipes

[thorn bane]

"Great candidates are: Wet Concrete, Any of the Pure recipes (e.g. Pure Iron), Steamed Copper sheets, Diluted Fuel.
Coal Generators are also a great way to do this, since you’re supplying coal/petroleum coke anyway.
"

[patent briar]

I would specifically do a loop with a VIP but then attach an overflow of water to a "pure" recipe consumer for emergency case

[grave tartan]

@patent briar That's actually a great point i didnt think of. I like Limestone because it needs a hefty 100m3 of water a minute, which makes it the best from a pure "eat up as much water as possible" approach

[bright nova]

That feeling when you don't have wet concrete

[thorn bane]

ye ive done that aswell in one of my earlier playthroughs
but havent done it since since it hast just never failed me

[grave tartan]

@bright nova Damn, you missin' out. It's such a good recipe

Especially if you're like me and demand A S T H E T I C S

[bright nova]

Ya, was an idiot and took a diff recipe at the time >.>

Mainly because it was early game and i didn't really have a use

[vast jungle]

I just got on my first HD hunt when I hit T5 and had the Explorer vehicle... should be easy for you to get 20+ harddisks too...

[bright nova]

That said, concrete now = yes

[bright nova]

is now on tier 8 and burned through nearly a dozen drives, no wet concrete yet but I be hopeful

best thing I had recently was copper alloy ingots

which honestly wasn't a bad find

[vast jungle]

Copper Alloy is really nice... not as much output as Pure Copper, but much better efficiency 😉

[bright nova]

yee

[vast jungle]

I really like Copper Alloy... built a huge "Forge" in my last playthrough that combined 3 pure coal, 3 pure iron and a pure copper for ingots for the rest of my factories in the rocky desert.

[bright nova]

Nice, I'm currently maxing out a 780 belt importing copper to my low tier items fab, and I still have excess Iron despite maxing out a 780 belt for Iron Ingots

[topaz hedge]

Copper alloy is decent

[vast jungle]

especially because of the super high output of the Foundries with it

[bright nova]

Technically I can support 56 Iron Smelters, however I only have 26 because frankly this building is already getting super tall

[topaz hedge]

I've run out of steel for steel screws.. I'm wondering if I've got a laggy belt again /:

[topaz hedge]

Damn them laggy belts

[bright nova]

Indeed

What's the general opinion here, Compact Steel ingot or Solid Steel Ingots?

[thorn bane]

solid

[vast jungle]

Solid

[bright nova]

Good to know :p

[vast jungle]

(plus pure Iron)

[vague tangle]

Solid Steel Ingot gives you 50% more steel for your iron ore over the base recipe.

[bright nova]

I probably need to dedicate another tower to steel production, because this thing is quickly going to get tall automating Rotors and reinforced iron plates

[river night]

compacts only bonus is that it uses the least coal .. at the expense of added sulfur, but you may need sulfur later, but what you gonna do with the coal?

[topaz hedge]

This is the second time I've managed to break mk4 belts D:

[vast jungle]

as soon as you switch away from coal power you should have enough coal...

[thorn bane]

huh? i thought mk4 is reliable

[vast jungle]

@bright nova Nice building...

[vague tangle]

How did you break it?

[vast jungle]

is still looking for a "good looking design" for Refinery parks...

[bright nova]

Cheers :P

This fella is dedicated to basically all the low tier items, Modular Frames, Reinforced Plates, Rotors etc

[topaz hedge]

just pulling 480/min on it. I even centerfed the line and it's just 4 machines lol

[bright nova]

Currently I have about 6gw of power in total, about 2 coming from coal and 4 coming from fuel, nuclear power is also in the works but that alone is going to be a mega project

[topaz hedge]

that is a nice tower tho

[bright nova]

Thanks ^^

[topaz hedge]

solid steel is the best. only use that alt lol

[bright nova]

yee, 'tis what I'm gathering

[topaz hedge]

if you have no coal, use oil and make coke steel.

[thorn bane]

once you hit the map limit of coal you can think about using others (you probably wont though)

[bright nova]

Thankfully.. the dune desert has like, a bajillion coal deposits

And worst case I can just overclock all the coal deposits

[vast jungle]

these are my last two "nice" buildings... the rest is ugly "build on concrete"
#screenshots message
#screenshots message

[bright nova]

oo, second one is simple and works nicely with the brutalism style, almost feels wild westerny, second building is quite neat tho

[vast jungle]

still working on what I can do with all the U5 stuff

[bright nova]

#screenshots message this is my primary power station currently

[bright nova]

Pretty solid for T5

[topaz hedge]

#screenshots message I'm still working on tweaking the looks of things to bring them up to u5 "standards"

[bright nova]

Nice tunnel entrance ^^

[topaz hedge]

thanks xd that tunnel runs all the way to the spire coast for rubbers :3

[bright nova]

Noice

I still have yet to automate my train line >.>

#screenshots message my current cross-map railline mega project, finally got it going to my starter base in the northern forest, then to my power station, next on the agenda is getting it up to the nuclear plant

Most of the uranium will ideally be handled by drones as I don't want a Choo-clear disaster happening

[topaz hedge]

I do like the rail supports

[bright nova]

Thanks ^^, they were a pain

[topaz hedge]

and i do handle uranium with drones. it works surprisingly well but you do need quite a few batteries/min i needed about 4 drones to move 600 uranium/min

[bright nova]

Yeah, that's primarily why I'm relocating to the dune desert, because I can just dedicate an entire tower to batteries production

[topaz hedge]

plus one drone to fly batteries.

it's not too bad though. if you have the classic battery alt, you can make batteries anywhere there's oil, and bauxite close by

oh and sulfur lol

[thorn bane]

and iron/copper

[bright nova]

Bauxite is a pain as I have to ship it from the other side of the map >.>

So I'm planning to use trains for that

[topaz hedge]

there's oil, bauxite, and sulfur in the swamp

south of you. ig that's probably across the map. to me it's close by xd

[bright nova]

I'm currently getting bauxite from roughly around here

[topaz hedge]

Yeah the swamp is the lovely nasty area to the east along that river. and you need well pressurizers to get the oil that's there.. and it's only 450/min fully overclocked

[bright nova]

I need to do a purge of the swamp so I can access the uranium there

[topaz hedge]

I like it as is. so most of the lovely wildlife is still there. they only spit fireballs if you look at them wrong.

[thorn bane]

ye who doesnt like fireballs flying at you, poisonous gas everywhere, huge spiders, and a fog that makes it so you cant see shit
lovely spot

[topaz hedge]

reminds me of home ❤️

[bright nova]

The sound of skittering every 5 meters

That you can't even see

[vast jungle]

I think I used up a thousand nobelisk to flatten the swamp when I built a TF powerplant there for the first time.

it was also what dropped the framerate so much that I stopped playing this session

[fierce ruin]

Inb4 mod that lets you load drones with nobs so they can do bombing runs and clear out map sections for you. 😏

[vast jungle]

not sure I should do this again... difficult to upgrade the GPU at the moment

[tropic hawk]

Fun thought I had the other night that would allow for infinite headlift. At the height you want the headlift to go to, place down a packager that unpackages whatever fluid you want the headlift to apply to. then pull down a pipe of that to the source, then pull it back up to another packager that packages the fluid, and feeds the first machine. if you put a valve on the first pipe down to prevent backflow, technically you have all the headlift from that so long as the pipe system is interconnected.

[fierce ruin]

Yes. Simpler to just do with fluid buffers though. There are articles on this/

[vast jungle]

and no guarantee that it will continue to work... they might (one day) just update their headlift-balance calculation

[fierce ruin]

The easier method if you've got 2 packagers anyway is just to package and conveyor lift.
Zero headlift issues 😛

[tropic hawk]

technically true... unless you need to lift a couple thousand units a minute. it might take a little bit more then

[vast jungle]

maybe a train lift might be the better option in this case 😉

[fierce ruin]

I'm thinking like "up a cliff" which is too short of a distance for a train to be worth it.

[vast jungle]

we need a cargo-hypertube-cannon...

with receiver building!

[fierce ruin]

"Need" is a strong word.

[vast jungle]

yes... at the moment I need a few more good HDs and then a new Powerplant...

Hmm... has any EVER build a "Turbo Heavy Fuel" powerplant?
Its bad on Sulfur, but it looks very easy to build and seems to be more power efficient (in terms of oil) than Turbofuel without Diluted Fuel

[fierce ruin]

Turbo Blend with Diluted is the only method for massive Turbo plants unless you just... hate yourself.

[vast jungle]

I am T5 working towards T6... the alternative to a Oil based powerplant would be dozens more Coal Powerplants in a remote location (no coal closeby anymore)

[fierce ruin]

Just use DPF?

[vast jungle]

you mean for a fuel powerplant... yes, I am thinking about it (if I finally get DPF in the harddisks I have collected!)

[fierce ruin]

After the post I did yesterday that's my new power evolution.
Coal > DPF plant > Nuclear

[vast jungle]

you want to skip TF and Blender based oil powerplants and directly go nuclear?

[fierce ruin]

Not want - will.

[vast jungle]

21 Refineries + 24 packagers for ~8 GW of power

[fierce ruin]

You think too small my friend.

🙂

[vast jungle]

scale by a factor of X if you want...

to be fair, I have built quite a few DPF loops (for TF powerplants) in U3... so I am quite used to them... and with the new Floor holes they should look even better

[fierce ruin]

Whether I stay with DPF or switch to Turbo, either way it is temporary until nuclear.
So it doesn't matter to me and I'd rather do as few temp setups as possible.

[light trout]

Yeah I kept setting things up as temp

I wanna wipe out my temp setups and setup clean and robust now

which is why I want to build until I have like triple my Max Cons.

Unfortunately I'm running out of materials just for the generators, after having built a lot of refineries and blenders

Which has doubled my Maxed Cons., kinda moved the mountain while I was trying to climb it

[ashen girder]

Fun fact. You don't actually need any dedicated power plants to get through the end of T8. 😂

My random ad hoc clusters of coal gens, fuel gens and geothermals worked great through unlocking everything.

[fierce ruin]

even better - you can do all this with just biomass burners and a big enough battery complex.

also you would murder hundreds of innocent creatures as an added bonus

[ashen girder]

Except burners don't interact with batteries. 😛

[fierce ruin]

right, I forgot batteries don't create any power demand

[light trout]

Burners seem to activate before batteries start draining

they seem to function as pre-battery batteries

[ashen girder]

They basically are, yeah.

[deft lichen]

burners separate the production and consumption lines on the power graph, and they will fill the gap until the lines meet, at that point batteries kick in

[glacial stag]

Just get all the geothermal nodes hooked up. Gives you a nice baseline of 4.5GW and then you don't even need to bother with fuel generators and can jump to nuclear.

[ashen girder]

And once you do one, the other 18 or whatever aren't hard.

Bonus if you harvest hard drives while doing it.

[light trout]

4.5 wouldn't power my setup

Before starting this mass turbo setup I had 6k max consumption

[frosty owl]

Power storages don't care about max consumption 😉

[light trout]

and I want to go and redo my temp starting setups which would expand them with more power-expensive recipes (the water ingot recipes)

Some of my spaghetti temp setups have stalled

[ashen girder]

I just like to remind people that the massive overbuilt complexes aren't necessary to unlock things in the game. 😄

[light trout]

Redoing my base will get them operational and up the power consumption

And I need to start building new things like the fusion frame thing

[frosty owl]

Just charge enough storages to power your factory long enough for turbofuel to reach the generators

[glacial stag]

So I got pure iron ingots, solid steel ingots and the steel based iron plate/rod recipes. The resource efficiencies of those alt recipes seem to stack substantially.

I was trying to run the numbers and it seems like two overclocked pure iron nodes feeding into 32 refineries will be able to support ~four mk5 belts worth of steel ingots.

I was getting ready to make a bunch of iron ore train stations, but I don't think I actually need them to support all of my iron needs.

Can I really run my factory off of just two iron nodes?

[ashen girder]

Depends what you're trying to produce. My plans for my next factory require like 1700 iron/min.

[wintry aurora]

Early on, sure.

[light trout]

I've got my turbofuel setup done except for the fuel generators

[glacial stag]

This will output 2080 iron ingots per minute. That turns into 3120 steel ingots.

[light trout]

45 turbo fuel/min from each blender ÷ 4.5 turbo fuel/min per = 10 fuel generators per blender. I have 37 blenders with enough supply for fully 36 of them ... × 10 generators ... that's a lot of generators to build :/

[glacial stag]

I just was surprised that it could do that with just two iron nodes. I thought I was gonna have to cart in a half dozen of them.

[light trout]

I'd like to skip early nuclear until I get the tech to deal with the waste

[ashen girder]

I'm pretty sure that turbo fuel plant could literally just skip nuclear if you wanted.

[light trout]

Does make me hope that someday we'll get construction abilities that don't require lugging around all materials in inventory

[glacial stag]

How sinful is it to use instant aluminum scrap? I know it's not the most power or resource efficient, but it's really tempting to get that down to a one step process.

[oblique hollow]

its great

it actually IS one of the most bauxite efficient recipes

[plush dove]

its your sandbox, kick over any castle you like. i use it myself

[oblique hollow]

the only recipe combo thats on par with it is sloppy solution + electrode scrap

[glacial stag]

It does add in the sulfur though.

But no silica needed.

[oblique hollow]

well for the ingots you still need silica

[glacial stag]

No byproducts too.

[oblique hollow]

unless you go for pure

[oblique hollow]

water

[glacial stag]

I was planning to do pure.

[vast jungle]

hurray... more Refineries 😉

[oblique hollow]

it produces enough water to supply it's acid refineries

meaning it shouldnt clog......

[glacial stag]

Inverted u joint and feed excess into a wet concrete refinery.

[oblique hollow]

there should be no excess if you just feed it to the acid refineries

its 1: 1

[glacial stag]

In my experience it's good to have an overflow outlet for these systems.

Add a bit of water in and then take a bit out.

I don't trust it to stay perfectly balanced.

[oblique hollow]

if anything it will start becoming less due to the loading bug

[glacial stag]

I'm not looking forward to building the 120 refineries I need for pure copper ingots.

[oblique hollow]

but i can confirm closed pipe loops that are 1 to 1 dont overlfow

unless you somehow undersupply a machine with parts, causing it to stall

then of course it starts backing up

but a simple buffer is enough to compensate any extra flow in an uninterrupted system

[glacial stag]

I might just add a half filled fluid buffer on the roof then.

It'll make it easier to monitor.

[thorn bane]

what 1 to 1 system are you talking about?

[oblique hollow]

instant scrap and acid refineries

the water and acid is 1 to 1

[fierce ruin]

Instant Acid

[thorn bane]

ok dont do that
the fluid load bug completely destroys that one since it cant recover from a fluid loss

[vast jungle]

unless you have too little copper, go for Copper Alloy... keep your sanity 😉

[thorn bane]

alot of people try that with sulfuric acid and non-fissile uranium
it just doenst work
dont do it

[glacial stag]

It's gonna be three pure copper nodes.

[glacial stag]

I'm hesitant to try myself, but perhaps with mk1 pipes and a fluid buffer it might work out.

[ashen girder]

The point is eventually you'll run low enough that you can't keep it going.

Buffer's just gonna make it take longer to do that.

[thorn bane]

the issue is not mk2 pipes
the issue is that everytime you load the game you remove 5m³ fluid from machines
so if you reload some times it will just be completly empty with no way of recovering

[glacial stag]

Yeah, that's not great.

[thorn bane]

heres the q&a thread
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/607b4f0faa0ba107e32590d9

[glacial stag]

Guess I'll add in some extra fluid and plan for overflow.

[ashen girder]

Could probably just add a single water extractor and a VIP and be fine. 🤷‍♂️

[thorn bane]

if you combine the water for sulfuric and the isntant scrap its fine since its not 1 to 1

[bright nova]

And so the hunt begins

[pine bramble]

Hi, i need some math nerd to help me calculate something (as my brain melted already)

I have 3 Water extractor (full overclock) 300m3 = 900
what i want is to make 5 pipe branch with each at least 160 m3

is that possible?

thank you

[bright nova]

you'd just divide 900 by 160 and with that you'd get roughly 5.625, you'd have some extra but yes it'd be possible

Well, in theory, each pipeline can handle 300 if you're using a mk1

you can always valve them off to limit the flow

[pine bramble]

yes its possible by calculating, but how to construct it ?
because water cannot be distribute using manifold style (as far as i know)

[pine bramble]

actually i have new question, i still don't know how valve work actually
read at wiki, still not understand, my english is bad

[bright nova]

Ah, valves are funky yah. it might be easiest to have it all going into two Mk2 pipes first then split it off from there, however you might be better off half overclocking 4 water extractors instead of fully oc'ing 3

[oblique hollow]

valve only work correct if pipe full

if pipe not full, valve outputs less than the number you set

[bright nova]

Either way you aren't going to have all 5 mk1 pipes at full flow

[oblique hollow]

it can

people make manifolds for pipes all the time because pipe balancers dont exist

[pine bramble]

lemme try again

thanks for answering

[oblique hollow]

this is the issue you experience i guess

[bright nova]

^^

[pine bramble]

tier 4 is such a joke, its hard

[oblique hollow]

not 5?

[pine bramble]

on transition to tier 5
i reconstruct whole factory right now

[primal pond]

I'm working on Phase 3 of the space elevator in a factory that's a total mess

[ashen girder]

Now that is counterintuitive.

[oblique hollow]

is it tho

[primal pond]

I'm kind of building a new factory while this one churns through parts

[bright nova]

Wait until until you get to tier 8, I'm relocating my entire base

[oblique hollow]

if pressure is low, throughput is low

[ashen girder]

Yes. 😛 It doesn't match the intuition of real world valves that don't restrict flow until their limit.

[oblique hollow]

thats...... not generally the case?
this is like a constant resistance ball valve

[primal pond]

That KIND OF makes sense I guess? Because the flow limit is proportional

[oblique hollow]

the valves act, by math, like electrical conductors

[primal pond]

That being said i'd rather it just let through the amount it had set

[oblique hollow]

so you can take the reciprocal of their value and basically do math like with resistor networks

[fierce ruin]

Pretty graphic!!!!

[bright nova]

when you're exploring and not really paying attention and nearly fall off the map

[ashen girder]

So if I set a constant resistance ball valve, so that it lets half of the full pressure of a pipe through, are you saying that if the pipe is flowing at half that pressure, it'll only flow at a quarter of the total pressure?

pressure/throughput..

[oblique hollow]

if you set a valve to half of the pipe throughput, and you have only a half full pipe, yes, you only get a quarter of the throughput while the rest fills the pipe

[ashen girder]

Yeah. That's still not intuitive to me. 😂 Why?

[oblique hollow]

resistance. also half empty pipes dont build up pressure

good luck shoving something through a resisting path with no force behind it

[ashen girder]

Huh. I guess that makes sense. Definitely feels counterintuitive to me.

I think the valve UI should reflect that, thuogh.

Do you know if it does?

[oblique hollow]

again, real world valves only work the way you expect them to because we dont usually have 2 m diameter pipes that are half empty

you expect full hoses and pipes and therefore full pressure from pumps or whatnot

(minus some friction losses)

[ashen girder]

I mean, I get that. 😛

...so.. does the valve UI show the diminished output?

[oblique hollow]

yes, needle only goes halfway

else good luck finding this LOL

[pine bramble]

i just check my 8 coal generator cannot fully operate with 4 100% water generator
pipeline is manifold style

[oblique hollow]

did you use just one pipe where all extractors are connected to

because pipes have a limit

[pine bramble]

yes its a single pipe mk1

[oblique hollow]

please check how much one extractor produces

and then check the flow limit of a pipe

[pine bramble]

ah you cannot instant manifold all things, i get it
thanks @oblique hollow

[oblique hollow]

yes you need 2 pipes at least

feeding from both ends

or something like this

[bright nova]

heat rises... I guess?

[oblique hollow]

and cold sinks eh?

[bright nova]

hm, what would ya'll go for?

[fringe pawn]

Silicon circuit board is probably the best recipe in the game if you need coupons to get build pieces unlocked.

Option 1 is also decent.

[frosty owl]

Doesn't "balancing" the pipes by making the splits and segments perfectly symmetrical work? iirc it did provide some results

[oblique hollow]

meh

[ashen girder]

I'm curious, how do y'all feel about putting pumps right after outputs just so you can get the headlift readings?

[oblique hollow]

i do it quite often

not in normal refinery setups, but when i do some water piping

[rocky field]

doesn't the headlift provided by a building just show up in its control panel?

[ashen girder]

It doesn't.

It should.

[rocky field]

i could've sworn i've seen that reading before

[ashen girder]

The description tells you how much it gives. But it doesn't give you the actual head lift like pumps do.

[rocky field]

man im having a mandela effect moment

[ashen girder]

I mean, I'll happily be shown the error of my ways. 😛

I want that to exist. If it does and I just overlooked it, heck yeah.

[rocky field]

you know what we really need? fluid drains

just an awesome sink but worse

a normal sink

[ashen girder]

I mean, packager is basically that already. 😛

[errant sable]

fluid drains would make fluids too easy to work with

[rocky field]

well i mean not really

you'd have to deal with something just sapping your fluid throughput constantly

not like there's overflow valves

[errant sable]

it would remove the need for getting rid of byproducts

[ashen girder]

There literally are overflow valves though.

[rocky field]

oh?

[ashen girder]

g r a v i t y

[rocky field]

oh

[ashen girder]

The highest pipe gets filled last. Once it's full, it overflows.

[errant sable]

why have a way to process it or package+sink it when you can slap a drain on the pipe

[rocky field]

you make a point

[ashen girder]

Then route that to a packager and sink it. 😂

[rocky field]

yo someone should make a greedy cup in-game that would be funny

when there's enough fluid in the system, it somehow turns on a pump that forces the rest of it into a sink

[fierce ruin]

Me, over here never using that recipe once...

[fringe pawn]

It's definitely not the only way, the chop suey I used for all my initial purchases probably had motors as the single largest contributor

But I also was a newb and didn't even have my first sink or many other parts of my factory on foundation.

[near zenith]

is there any record of what objects you've sunk saved? i'd love to know how much of what gave me all my tickets so far

would be interesting to see if there are optimization paths i can take for my next start

[deft lichen]

no but it'd be cool, make sure to suggest that on the qa site

[shadow prairie]

You can send Questions, Feedback, Suggestions, and Bug Reports at https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/ - <3 @deft lichen

Nov 18, 2021, 8:35 PM

[deft lichen]

"Track items sunk into the AWESOME Shop"

[wintry aurora]

The number of fuel generators on 100% a MK2 pipe can support is 50, right? Just doublechecking for sure.

[river night]

with normal fuel, yes. 50 times 12 is 600

[oblique hollow]

In theory yes

It gets problematic with long mk 2 pipes though

Be sure to loop the pipe network for extra safety

[wintry aurora]

I'm asking because I'm doing rows of 44 and I'm testing it and it's having trouble with the last 4 or 6.

[river night]

44 would be safer and avoid these pipe glitches, in any case

[wintry aurora]

The second to last pair seems to be trying to stabilize.

[wintry aurora]

The last ones seem to be trying to stabilize, it's juts taking a really damn long time.

[timber stump]

My Schematic for my new Reinforced Iron Plates Production line. It will be able to produce 20 per minute. To get the 60 iron plates and screws per minute, I will wait around 5-8 minutes for each container to fill up. Then once they are filled adequality, I will connect the belts thus making over 100 screws and plates out of a belt that does 60 per minute. I need 60 screws per minute and 30 iron plates per minute because each assembler needs that much to manufacture one plate.

Green = Iron Plates
Red = Screws
Black = Reinforced Iron Plates

Any suggestions?

[river night]

if those numbers are right, then the containers are eventually just going to be empty and you produce at half capacity

[timber stump]

My idea was to put MK2 belts in the back because below I have a whole separate production line that makes the parts

So I bring in more than I put out

Plus I am always making more materials to make more plates

I tested it out before on a smaller scale and it works

[river night]

All I can tell you is that the diagram as written is going to run at rather low efficiency due to lack of input material. If you manually mess with the input, then thats not documented, and why make a diagram 😄

[timber stump]

The input is sorted

[tropic hawk]

Suggestion: automate the supply so you don't need to input into the system, but you can if you want to jumpstart the system

[timber stump]

I don't, I have manufacturing lines below that make all the materials

[tropic hawk]

then use item elevators to get them up there

[timber stump]

I do

that's what the semi circles are

poorly labeled elevators'

[tropic hawk]

then why do you need the manual supply?

[fierce ruin]

Yes. Switch to Stitched Plates.

[timber stump]

Define manual supply

[fierce ruin]

I think he means why do you have storage containers in the production line.

[tropic hawk]

"I will wait 5-10 minutes for each container to fill up". That would be manual work, as you turn on and off the system manually

[timber stump]

It would only to jumpstart the system

[tropic hawk]

lets clear things up: Once lines are saturated and running, would you need to do anything to make the machines run at 100% efficiency?

[timber stump]

nope

as long as the production line below keeps producing the materials then it should be fine

[tropic hawk]

then it should be good

[timber stump]

Plus, I am gonna have MK2 belts brining in the recourses into the containers and Mk1's taking them out. This means I should never run out of things in the container

wtf

[tropic hawk]

what was this in response to?

[timber stump]

The guy said the N word

[ashen girder]

He was just trying to get banned. Nothing to see here.

[timber stump]

I was gonna report him but he deleted his message

[ashen girder]

Mods did.

[timber stump]

oh ok

Good,

[ashen girder]

Yeah, Baine swooped in cleaned house. Dude was in #satisfactory-experimental and #old-questions-and-help too.

[timber stump]

noice

I was in the processes of DMing a mod

about it

[woven burrow]

so i have 120 fuel produced/minute that go into 10 fuel generators, two keep shutting down due to lack of fuel
any ideas?
fuel generator fuel use is 12/m
something feels off here

[fierce ruin]

how long have you waited for the pipe system to fill up?
also, you're absolutely sure you're outputting 120/m to gens?

[woven burrow]

3 refineries with fuel recipe

40x3

[fierce ruin]

Never do fuel plants in exact amounts.

[round hamlet]

Actually, a good solution might be to use some plumbing tricks to enforce full pipes

For example, making 8 or 9 of your fuel generators be supplied like normal, but then have the last one(s) have an overflow junction stopping the fuel from reaching them until the pipe feeding the rest is completely full

@woven burrow

[topaz hedge]

did you let your fuel gens and pipes fill up before turning them on?

if in=out the system will never fill and work correctly unless you temporarily reduce the out (standby generators) to let the system fill.

[wanton crest]

There any sort of rule of thumb for how many power storages to build? I saw the bit about having enough to cover the excess from geysers but I’m a fair way away from them.

Just about to build a 48-gen coal power facility at the crater lakes tonight after work and I’m not sure whether to put the power storage in the same building as the generators or set up an extra outbuilding for the storage.

(Well I say “outbuilding”, it’s gonna be a multi-storey skyscraper of nothing but power storage if I go that way. 😛 )

[topaz hedge]

as many as you want.

build a 1000 if you'd like.

[ashen girder]

Figure out how long you want to be able to run without fuel, divide by 100MWh. 😂

[topaz hedge]

if you want something reasonable, match your MW with your power storages.

so if you have 2000mw, build 2000mwh of storage.

[wanton crest]

Thought someone might’ve come up with a quick and simple starter idea when you’re first getting power storage set up - like “two storage to one coal gen” or something.

[ashen girder]

I set up 4 when I first built them. 😂

Then eventually built another bank of 16. And I've been pretty comfortable with the 2 GWh bank.

But my grid only produces like.. 5-8GW based on the geothermals.

[topaz hedge]

so if you were looking for a rule of thumb. 1000mw = 1000mwh of storage.

[ashen girder]

Definitely can't go wrong with that.

[wanton crest]

I’ll see if I can fit them neatly into the factory when I come to working out the layout of the plant. I assume hard clearance means I can’t fit them in just above the main body of the generator behind the smoke stack, right?

[topaz hedge]

That seemed to work pretty well on my other playthrough. it'll usually give you a decent amount of time overcapacity to build another coal plant

[ashen girder]

I think you should be able to put them there?

Definitely worth trying. 😂

[topaz hedge]

stators arn't exactly something i have easy access too, otherwise I'd try real quick.

[wanton crest]

I know belts and foundations can go in there, just not sure about actual functional structures.

[ashen girder]

Stupid Stators. 😂

Considering Snutt keeps asking people for stacked coal generators, I'm pretty sure anything can go there now. 😉

[topaz hedge]

if you had a nuclear question. I can build those rn lol

[wanton crest]

Yeah, just automated stators last night, the time I spend getting up to the lakes and planning out the factory layout should let more than enough of them build up in storage.

[topaz hedge]

or anything really but power storages lol

[wanton crest]

Just to make sure I’m remembering right - coal gens take up about two-and-bit by one-and-a-bit foundations, right?

[topaz hedge]

should work tho

[wanton crest]

Okay, good to know. I’ll do my own test tonight to double-check but I think that should be a use for all that empty space.

[lament jolt]

I'm going to need a rubber room.... I am setting up an isolated train network for bauxite collection and aluminum processing. Just to test the rail network and my spiral, I set up 9 biomass burners, all over clocked to 250%. Just the plain bio logs in them. Power grid says I am making 3642.3 MW. 9 times 60.3 (weird floating point math....) is nowhere near that.

[wintry aurora]

I think you mean padded room?

[lament jolt]

lol.... I even put another 9 biomass burners down, all again at 250%, and linked them with the other 9. Same production numbers, makes no sense

And now it says I have batteries on this grid. The only place on my save with 1500 mwh of stored power is in the desert, and it has no connections to the aluminum line.

[wintry aurora]

The trains are batteries?

[lament jolt]

No. They don't store energy. I do have 15 power storage units in the desert. That site has no cables or track connections to anything else...

[wintry aurora]

I was joking obviously.

[lament jolt]

something to do with experimental...

[wintry aurora]

How much battery storage is there, or so it claims to exist on the isolated grid? Just wondering.

[lament jolt]

I linked my small power plant in the southern pond deep where you can get 2550 oil, which also has all 18 geothermal plants linked as well. That circuit has 0 power storage units. Yet, my window shows 1500 MWh stored...

I am using drones, but haven't set up the final part of the battery plant...very odd

[wintry aurora]

I just splatted down a power pole not connected to anything to be sure and it doesn't show battery.

[crystal charm]

so, a mk1 miner on a pure node can put out 120p/m

a smelter at 100% can handle 30, so each node can handle 4 smelters, except i'm still only at mk1 belts

are mk2 belts 120? mk1 is 60

[wintry aurora]

Yes

[strong heath]

So I've got my coal plants setup with 1 extractor per 2 coal plants. The extractors are clocked at 75% so in theory they should supply them with exactly the amount of water they need. However the extractors are very very slowly losing the amount of water in them. I'm not sure what I'm missing?

[vast jungle]

you are sure that the headlift is okay? you can test by switching off the 2 coal plants, flush the whole water network and see if it comes back to 100%...

[strong heath]

my headlift is over on each pump by 2 meters

I'm guessing thats the issue

?

[plush dove]

that can limit the flowrate. even tho they says the snapping is fine it sometimes isnt

[vast jungle]

like I said, just switch off a group of 2 coal powerplants (or even better, disconnect the coal), flush the pipes and then see if both of them will be filled up again

[strong heath]

ok will do thanks

[crystal charm]

btw, anyone know the foundation dimensions of the space elevator?

[vast jungle]

there might also be hidden problems at T-junctions (sometimes pipes have problems to connect well) and its really difficult to see whats going on while you have consumers in the network.
I think the idea to simplify the network (1 extractors connected to 2 powerplants) and keep these parts separated is already a great help, both for keep the water flowing and for debugging

[crystal charm]

like, precisely?

[vast jungle]

what do you mean be "precisely" ?

[crystal charm]

8x8 foundation blocks etc?

[vast jungle]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Space_Elevator
Wiki says 54m x 54m, which would be 7x7 foundation blocks... and in practice it has an infinite height

[strong heath]

I think they added soft clearance for it

[crystal charm]

SCIM doesn't havea machine layout mapping tool from memory, but there is another one, does anyone know it? i'm about to build my ironworks and i want to map out the maximum current capacity

16 smelters + various crafters etc

[fluid forge]

@crystal charm satisfactory-tools maybe?

[crystal charm]

can the default first transport vehicle move enough coal to power some plants?

[deft lichen]

depends on distance

and even if not, just run multiple vehicles on the same path

[crystal charm]

i thought there was an issue with doing that?

[deft lichen]

it should work, I haven't tried it myself

[frosty owl]

SaLT

[thorn bane]

i usually recommend 8-32 coal gens and 50-250 fuel gens
so in my opinion youre overbuilding and should just get to fuel gens

actually how many coal gens do yall build
should i increase 32?
i personally have never build more than 32

[cinder silo]

I still have an old coal station with 96 generators.

[vast jungle]

I have 3.2 GW of coal power and beginning to build my first (diluted) fuel powerplant

[fierce ruin]

ever since appearance of power storage, you can live off with very little energy production all the way till nuclear
if you store enough and spend it wisely

[thorn bane]

ye i did it with 8 coal and 50 gens which is imo the lowest i would reccommend

[thorn bane]

how many generators is that?

[frosty owl]

... Yes

It's a lot 😆

[fierce ruin]

I'd say just 1200MW (8 coal) and enough batteries will be enough to get to nuclear and actually build it up. Although you'd have to turn stuff off quite often, and of course, no wanton sinking

[cinder silo]

My 96 gens got 7.2gw,

[thorn bane]

wait you mean no fuel generators at all?
theres no way youd get HMFs and Computers fast enough

[fierce ruin]

"fast enough" for what exactly? To build the chain for 1-2 nukes? That doesn't need much.

[thorn bane]

a nuclear plant needs 25 HMFs and 5 supoercomputers
the milestone is 50 supercomputers and 200 HMFs

[cinder silo]

100 nukes are proving unpleasant to build for 😵‍💫

[thorn bane]

at that point youre just handcrfting everything

[fierce ruin]

exactly. 25 HMFs is very little even if you're doing 1/m

[thorn bane]

but you need to unlock the milestone(s)

[fierce ruin]

supercomputers are a slightly bigger issue, but you can loot quite a bit off the map for unlocks

[thorn bane]

theres 45 on the map

[frosty owl]

200 HMF= 200 minutes max, little more than 3 hours, one can cun HDD in that time~

[thorn bane]

i mean you could do that but at that poitn im pretty sure setting up 10 fuel generators would be faster

[frosty owl]

Debatable

[thorn bane]

is 8 coal gens even enough for 1HMF/min?

[thorn bane]

am i missing something or is 8 * 75MW = 600MW?

[frosty owl]

For 1/min, I'm pretty sure they suffice... For more production (and other items) though... 🤔

[cinder silo]

your math is sound.

[thorn bane]

according to greeny its 219MW
and thats JUST HMF
no computers
no anything

[frosty owl]

Sounds reasonable

[fierce ruin]

yeah, 16, not 8

[thorn bane]

idk maybe im wrong but imo theres no way you get to nuclear with 8 coal gens

[fierce ruin]

I'm not seeing much power drain here

Overclock them? 🤷‍♂️

[cinder silo]

8 coal gens was my very first setup in the grasslands, operated off one of them piddly little pools of water.

[frosty owl]

*Downclock them?

[fierce ruin]

Both?

😏

[frosty owl]

Well, only one saves power xD

[thorn bane]

ok its ~123 with heavy encased

theres no way its time efficient to have this low amount of machines

[fierce ruin]

123 MJ per HMF?

[thorn bane]

123MW

[frosty owl]

123 MW to sustain a 1/min production of HMF

[fierce ruin]

Oof... multiply that by 135 😬

[frosty owl]

Why?

[fierce ruin]

Because that's my HMF outpost 😂

135/min

[thorn bane]

for reference i had 6GW before nuclear
not 600MW

[frosty owl]

Shameless plug 🤦‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

600MW should be possible too without much wait times, but here's it's where you'd have to cut all the corners probably (e.g. manufacture nearly everything by manually moving inputs between separate small blocks)

[thorn bane]

the third space elevator alone would take ages

[fierce ruin]

not if you start it immediately after phase 2

[tropic hawk]

or...

crazy thought here

[frosty owl]

I still haven't heard of anyone tackling the 3 buildings any% challenge (no handcrafting)

[tropic hawk]

You could go and make a sane amount of power for the build

[fierce ruin]

@frosty owl you want to know the REAL challenge?

[tropic hawk]

that would require starting at a later phase than normal

[thorn bane]

684MW
thats 6hours

[frosty owl]

-.^

[fierce ruin]

Play Satisfactory on a dvorak without changing any keybinds. 😏

[frosty owl]

No, why?

[tropic hawk]

last I checked... wait, im an idiot

[fierce ruin]

well, look at it this way: low-power builds are not going to fly without getting most alts, so you'd spend quite some time travelling - that's the time needed to slowly produce all the stuff without much power drain, and as a bonus you'll end up with all the HDD research

[tropic hawk]

i thought mining was hand crafting...

[tropic hawk]

or you could build lots of power plants, not have to worry about power, and make stuff fast

[thorn bane]

ok i was assuming no harddrives (and no downtime)

[crystal charm]

is there a math on much a truck can transport p'm based on distance?

you know how the drones give you that info?

[fierce ruin]

not having something like EIP would ruin your day
or iron wire, or stiched iron plate, or...

[frosty owl]

Honestly, the only reason it's 2 buildings instead of 3 is due to nitrogen extraction that needs 2 buildings+power source minimum

[thorn bane]

i usually dont get any hdds until jetpack and rifle
so i build HMFs and Computers without any alt recipes

[tropic hawk]

what?

[thorn bane]

hm i wonder if you could calculate the energy (in joule) of all the items you need until nuclear
and then compare it to the energy you get from 600MW of machines

[fierce ruin]

there's about 70% of HDDs that can be just picked up with no big hassle
and 30% others that require lots of jumping/ramping, avoiding poison, travelling to godforsaken places or having weird ingredients to open pods

[tropic hawk]

just remember that 1 MW = 1 MJ/s

[thorn bane]

but machines give you more resource energy than the MW input

[frosty owl]

@tropic hawk Eg: you can process iron or by having 1 power source and 1 miner, put the ore on belt, delete the miner, make a smelter, power it and feed the ore... And so on for any extraction or production process
But for nitrogen you must use the resource wells, which require 3 buildings to function (power, pressurizer and output well)

[frosty owl]

SF blind run when?!

[fierce ruin]

it would be nice to have a mod that randomizes nodes and pods

perhaps in an especially evil way, to boot

[cinder silo]

Probably wind up with nodes in the sky or buried inside mountains.

[fierce ruin]

Mods 🤢

[fierce ruin]

I mean, flip all the resource types between already established locations

[frosty owl]

You spawn in the "Speed runner spot"
The clustered pure iron nodes all became uranium ones and you die immediatly

[fierce ruin]

at least it'll be fast

[fierce ruin]

Turns speed runner spot into all impure nodes 😈

[cinder silo]

Or add a super impure node, 15/30/60 to really troll with.

[fierce ruin]

[frosty owl]

I think we should keep it to more... Human kind of evils shudders

[fierce ruin]

Oh. Keep the infinite resources per node, but for people wanting a finite challenge have it so you can tap only so many of each kind.

[cinder silo]

Imagine how rough it would be completing all the space elevator milestones if all the resource nodes could deplete.

[fierce ruin]

I refuse to given infinite nodes is core to how the game works.

I actually talked with modding people about that a while ago, but as they told me, the main problem is that logical node (the thing that you can plop a miner on) and it's visual representation (the model, the resource spire on top of it, etc) are not really linked together, and so moving those nicely together would be pretty painful to do

[inner reef]

me who gave up on trying to build compupers

[fierce ruin]

and the concept with finite nodes could fly only if the process of discovering new ones & setting up mining outpots would be somehow interesting (it isn't in Satisfactory, it isn't in Factorio, and so on)

otherwise finite nodes would only add pain and not pleasure

[wintry aurora]

And there’s one or two that require a lot of power, which may or may not be much of a hassle.

[oblique hollow]

Also finite nodes in a finite world means you can only exploit so much. Near the end it would all turn into a game of "gotta make sure to not waste anything at all" and to transport everything everywhere alla Main Train Bus line

[wintry aurora]

Or implement something like Vein Utilization in DSP.

[proven prawn]

Soon

[digital garden]

plans out a big plastic factory. Does the math, builds the infrastructure, plans out the floors and all the belt lines. Plug it in, Insta-murder my power system.

[fierce ruin]

^ how you know you forgot a step during planning.

[warm sphinx]

i need help with layouts, i am gonna make a factory of 5 floors, however, what i want is that if iron is getting backed up in 1 floor it needs to get distributed into other floors, how do i do this?

[fierce ruin]

Smorts with overflow setting.

[warm sphinx]

thing is, my best part is mk2 belts

[fierce ruin]

And?

[warm sphinx]

smart splitters isnt something i can make fast

[fierce ruin]

You can have smart splitters before you even hit coal.

[wintry aurora]

Up to you really.

[wind spade]

there's no reason to deconstruct it really, unless you need FPS or object limit

oh you said deconstruct, not repurpose 🙂

[wintry aurora]

The object limit is pretty huge though, and you won't hit it for quite some time.

[wind spade]

if you don't care about points and have everything unlocked, then it's all just you and your goals. So do whatever you want and whatever will help you to get closer to your goals

[wintry aurora]

Eiher way, it's up to you.

[wind spade]

if your goal includes "more computers", then go for it 🤷‍♂️

also it can't be a waste if you don't care about points 😉

[ashen girder]

You need them for phase 4.

[oblique hollow]

you always need the previous part in the next tier

[frosty owl]

@oblique hollow Funfact: I made a pipe manifold (every output with the same lenght/shape) fed centrally that goes into refineries via floor pipe holes. It fills the machines up from the sides towards the center (the central refineries get ~10/50 m of fluid and stop there until all other machines are full)

Seems consistent, I had 3 such manifolds, they all filled up sides first

[crystal charm]

i need help, brain not functioning, i need to split 160 screws into 100 and 60, with reasonably limited space

oh wait, lol, i just figured it out

it's funny how sometimes writing out what you want to solve helps your brain solve it

[fierce ruin]

Really only 1 way to do that. Mk.

😏

[crystal charm]

god i miss my jetpack

[sturdy cipher]

hey what do people prefer, load balance or overflow methods?

[proper orchid]

Personally, I prefer Manifold/Overflow as it helps with compactness

[native geyser]

Same. I only load balance if I'm feeling really OCD

[sturdy cipher]

so like what are the benefits of each

[proper orchid]

Load balancing lets you split all your resources evenly from the get-go

At the cost of lower start up

[sturdy cipher]

so load balancing is good for temp setups that wont fill

fill fast anyway

[ashen girder]

They take the same amount of time to fill

[proper orchid]

The end result on a saturated line is the same

If you're taking 120 in and using 120 "out", the line will eventually become fully saturated regardless of the method, meaning that manifold will save you on space

[crystal charm]

but it won't be instant

[proper orchid]

^

[crystal charm]

it will take time to saturate

[proper orchid]

Load Balancing has a faster start-up than Manifold

At the cost of more initial space needing to be taken

[ashen girder]

Faster initial start up. They take the same amount of time to reach 100% efficiency.

I actually think greeny said the math had manifolds hitting 100% slightly faster in most cases.

[eager solar]

Do keep in mind that load balancing becomes increasingly harder as the number get weirder

Figuring it out might take longer than waiting for the overflow

[crystal charm]

a biofuel gen with 200 solid biofuel should burn for ~50 minutes right?

[sturdy cipher]

hey question for the big nerds ill put it in math and meta too, is there a way to have a system which you can call whatever resources you want only when you want them

[proper orchid]

Um.... It would probably require Power Switches connected to a closed transportation network system.

Off the top of my head, you could set up a drone delivery system where you (at a hub area), flip a power switch that directly connects to 1 drone port, powering it to deliver the supplies to the hub's delivery zone drone port

This does require you to have a drone port output from whatever auxiliary factories you have but it should be feasible

The only reason I would suggest drones over trains is the smaller footprint

[void zodiac]

So I was debating setting up a battery backup for my nuclear stuff, the MW usage shown for a machine is per minute right?

[sturdy cipher]

i think so

[void zodiac]

Just trying to figure out how many batteries I would need to jumpstart it long enough to spit out fuel rods. But the whole MW/Hr thing really hurts my brain and I did electrical work for years 😆 Might have to consult my dad.

I think the big thing I need to know is how much time does it need to spit out a fuel rod. 💀 Then I can calculate battery to power usage... I think...

Ok so my brain thinks, let's just say my fuel rod production is 30,000 MW if I didn't mess up my math I can set up 1500 batteries and run it for 5 minutes, Wich theoretically should be long enough to get nukes back online...

[oblique hollow]

A single storage can only be charged with 100 MW max. That means to fully load their 100 MWh, it takes 1 hour.
100 MWh / Power needed = Time until they are empty

So 100 MWh / 5000 MW = 0.02 hours, aka 1.2 minutes

[oblique hollow]

1500 Batteries = 150000 MWh. Fully charged those would last 5 HOURS for 30000MW

[native geyser]

So batteries would be cheaper and easier than gravity fed turbofuel generators?

I have become error

[oblique hollow]

Probably

Especially because they can produce a varying amount of power

Fuel Generators only ever do 150 MW

And a storage can produce anywhere from 1 MW to 1 000 000 MW

Or even more

[native geyser]

Wiki says overclocked fuel generators cam get up to 303.5MW, so you'd need just shy of 100 to meet the 30GW mark. However, the turbofuel generators could be made self sustaining if I cover the cost of the miners, water extractors, fuel pumps, pipe pumps, and production machines... Too much math for me at 2:40 AM... I'll have to tweak my spreadsheet tomorrow. Hopefully I didn't just waste the last week building this thing...

[thorn bane]

just overclock to 100 * 2^1.3 so they produce 2x the power and consume 2x the input
makes the math alot easier

[spice ginkgo]

Not per minute. In Watts time is already included in the unit

[crystal charm]

early trucks run on coal power yeah?

[crystal charm]

so, i'm overdoing the water pumpage for my 8 coal gens right

you only need 360 and i'm doing 480, but oddly, the last few aren't getting enough water, does it not chain well? Should i split the supply to hit both ends at once?

[eager solar]

most likely faulty piping

mk1 pipe can only handle up to 300m³

[spice ginkgo]

You can add pipe to the pump at the end

[eager solar]

go to #old-questions-and-help and scroll up a bit, just posted a few layouts from the wiki a few mins ago

[worldly raft]

yeah so you'd need a seperate pipe system for that last 60 m^3

[crystal charm]

yeah it's weird game mechanics based on the fluid cycles it seems, i thought they'd fixed that in exp, apparently not, i just added this

[spice ginkgo]

You can also add some pipe in the middle

[crystal charm]

it was piping in at one end with enough math to fill the lot, but it wasn't filling, so i spit the initial pipe and redirected it to the other end, within seconds the whole problem was resolved

[eager solar]

yep, if you had all 3 we connected at one end you're trying to push 360m³ in a 300m³ pipe, so it couldn't work correctly

[crystal charm]

actually i was trying to push 480 into a 300 pipe, you're right, that was the fail

i forgot i started fresh and wasn't using mk2 pipes

[worldly raft]

yeah the mk1 pipes are always the earliest bottleneck

[crystal charm]

ok, those little voiceovers when you're near an alien artifact are getting creepy

[topaz hedge]

Only when getting oil out of a pure node..

Normal node mk1 pipes are fine

[crystal charm]

"hello, this is maternal figure, i have fallen ill and doctors say the only remedy is alien artifacts" "harvest it..."

[topaz hedge]

Harvest!

[crystal charm]

so, derp brain me, realised i was still doing the math wrong for my coal factories, still trying to use a 300 pipe to supply 360

so now i've split the water extractors output so there's 240 coming in from each end, which, in theory, means the whole lot should be fine

[wind spade]

I usually recommend repeating this layout 🙂

  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
  G  G  G  G

[crystal charm]

yeah that would've been smarter, i'll probably do that for the next lot i build

ugh, gonna have to do spaceship phase 2 soon, i'm not ready for that yet, my base is still too messy

[oblique hollow]

Spaceship?

Wrong game xd

Spelevator

[crystal charm]

you know what i mean, and i'm pretty sure you've corrected it on me like three times over the past few weeks

what's a good foundation width for a good looking road, 4 wide?

lets you put a barrier up the middle, have arrows pointing directions for vehicles etc?

[spice ginkgo]

I think they added some asphalt thing in latest update

Propably in shop like most new things

[oblique hollow]

I think this was the first time tho?

I dont remember you talking about spaceships or other things

[wintry aurora]

I thought it was paternal figure?

Also, that kind of thing makes utterly no sense whatsoever.

[fierce ruin]

My favorite is when it simply says "C O M P L Y"

The fact I can run 16 Assemblers for Fused QW on a single belt still makes it baffling to me to that people recommend not mixing...

If you personally don't like doing it that's one thing, and I respect it.
But flat-out telling people that mixed belts are bad??

[wintry aurora]

Not bad per se, just problematic if you don't set things up correctly I guess.

[fierce ruin]

It's not even a setup thing given you just line them up and chain smorts behind them.

🤷‍♂️

[thorn bane]

😦

also the reason people (me including) dont recommend mixed belts is that you can get the same result with 2 belts but 10x less chance of having a mistake

[fierce ruin]

I mean... not sure where the "10x less" is coming from?

You have to do the math either way, if you skip the step of "divide by 780" to see how many belts you need. That's on you? Wouldn't really give that step a factor of 10 in probability of skipping though.

[thorn bane]

its just the extra step of having an overflow sink or getting the ratio right
compared to just drawing a belt

[fierce ruin]

Getting the ratio right?

So in your example it says 680 copper, 170 caterium. Are you saying you'd look at that and send like 700/200 down the line??

[thorn bane]

no the issue is that its hard to make exactly 680 (if you dont use an overflow sink)

[fierce ruin]

Oh. Ok. Yeah ever since I discovered the magic of 45 I have eliminated that issue almost entirely.

I have redone all of my outposts in terms of 45 so now that I've started building them it is so, so simple.

[thorn bane]

for something as basic as wire that doesnt work unless your producing more than you need

[fierce ruin]

?

[thorn bane]

the amount of wire you need is dependent on all the other stuff youre building
youre not choosing to make 45 wire/min it completely depends on the other production
unless youre making more than you need

im not making 1982 wire because i think its a nice value

[fierce ruin]

Why would you choose your wire per min when it is just part of production?

The magic of 45 is based on the final product.

[thorn bane]

ye im not gonna make 45 assembly director systems dude

[fierce ruin]

If what you are ultimately making is in terms of 45, everything prior except rubber/plastic automatically falls into clean decimals.

[thorn bane]

also no?

[fierce ruin]

Oh, you're automating Project Assembly parts. Enjoy.

[fierce ruin]

Also yes?

[thorn bane]

that doesnt matter...

nice numbers

[fierce ruin]

41.6701 is cleanly within the 4 decimal limit of the game...

🙃

[thorn bane]

thats just rounded from the planner

same thing

[fierce ruin]

Guessing that line has Caterium Circuit Boards?

[thorn bane]

nah silicon

[fierce ruin]

Link it to me?

[thorn bane]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=AsUaHaIZo734esN7wLu8

the numbers of basic components will always get weirder the more production steps you have
if its wire -> a -> b -> 45 its probably fine
if its wire -> a -> b -> 10 other things -> 45 its not gonna be nice numbers

mostly as soon as you need wire for 2 different things it gets weird

[fierce ruin]

You're forcing very specific alts in this line too.

If you go 45 and work back you can make it clean 100% of the time barring rubber/plastic.
It's a matter of what you use though.
Certain alts dislike going into certain other alts.

[thorn bane]

yes the most efficient ones im willing to use

i mean sure you can just overproduce something or use non-efficeint recipes

[fierce ruin]

Like if you remove Cheap Silica it cleans up like 4 different parts of the line because that's one of the 2 exception to 45 (Cheap and Cat CB)

And with the exception of like 1.2 Rubber/Plastic per minute occasionally, none of my lines overproduce.

[thorn bane]

anyway you see what i mean with 10x harder? xD

[fierce ruin]

Not really. Slightly harder given 1 more step to track.
10x is a bit much imo.

[thorn bane]

ok what ever point is its harder for not much benefit

[lilac ermine]

its bad for future expandability, if you arent building to max out the line right now, you may build more lines to do so in the future

[fierce ruin]

How?

If I can run 16 on a belt, but I need 4 right now... that's perfectly expandable.

If I need 40 later, still expandable...

[knotty frigate]

The feeling when you need to drain 7.2km of mixed belt because you didn't include 5km worth of the decorative loop and the only solution is to wait for it to drain and then trace the connections

[tropic hawk]

F

[fierce ruin]

Time for a Hub0 restart.

[wind spade]

what formula? 🤔

fasle is great tho

does the `%' need to be there? if no, just use MAX

[tropic hawk]

if you are set on this, just use nested statements and make it like a tournament sheet

[oblique hollow]

excel?

[dusty isle]

How long should a vehicle stop at a station to be loaded up with items?

[oblique hollow]

depends on how much goes into the station

give it a few seconds

[dusty isle]

I can set the pause node... Just wondering how long to set it for.

[oblique hollow]

if its too short, you will notice some items being left in the truck or the station

soooo its kinda trial and error for each route

[dusty isle]

Oh, so it isn't like it dumps it all in at the same time... There is sort of an invisible high speed belt that fills the vehicle over a short period. Ok. Thanks

[oblique hollow]

yea theres a certain transfer rate if i remember correctly

[oblique hollow]

found it

so its the speed of a mk 2 belt, but for entire stacks

sooo that makes 2 stacks per second

[dusty isle]

I read that but it didn't register. Much appreciated.

[oblique hollow]

just count how many stacks you have in the truck station or truck and divide by 2, that should give you a good start for the waiting time

[dusty isle]

So a tractor with 25 slots... Means a max of 12.5 second wait

[oblique hollow]

in that sense, yes

[dusty isle]

Setting everything to 15 seconds... Nice round number and easy to work with

[strong heath]

will pumps max out a pipes flow rate at the 22m (snap point) or do you have to be in the 20m recommended level?

[river night]

the snap point is fine

would be a pretty dumb feature if it would be at a point beyond its working range 😄

[strong heath]

thats what i thought I just found it odd that it gives the warning that its exceeding

[lunar venture]

That's probably referring to headlift

in which case, you'll either need to lessen your height difference, move your pumps up a little high, or add another pump. You can't exceed head lift by that much, or nothing will flow.

[strong heath]

right I get that anything after 22 meters is too high. I just didn't understand why there would be a warning when you place a pump at the snap point that its exceeding the recommended level

[oblique hollow]

because for some reason they moved the snap point from 20 to 22

[fierce ruin]

20 is the point where a horizontal pipe would fill completely, 22 is the point where there's still any flow
when you're pumping something, it doesn't matter as long as the flow reaches next pump (as it'll prevent any backflow anyway)

[strong heath]

awesome thank you 👍

[lunar pivot]

Best option?

[fierce ruin]

all of it

[oblique hollow]

all of it is important

[lunar pivot]

wich 1 is best

[oblique hollow]

none they are all equal

[lunar pivot]

what would u have done

This is my First time

[wind spade]

depends on what you want to do really

[oblique hollow]

probably foundations buuut for you id guess logistics

[wind spade]

hard to say for us

[oblique hollow]

that way you can have at least SOMETHING running.
but thats only one take on it

id probably have picked base building

[lunar pivot]

Okay

[crystal charm]

i had a miniature version of that on my tier 2 rebuild yesterday, i had 5 crates of mixed resources and needed to relocate them, so i set up a chain belt to a new location where i could sort them easier and just had to wait for my mk1 belt to get them there

definitely go with Foundations first, otherwise you'll be tempted to go with a spaghetti mess of organisation. Build buildings, build lots of them, don't worry about future scaling just yet, go nuts with potential buildings and interlink them with roads

[thorn bane]

obstacle clearing first 100%
chainsaw is too good

[crystal charm]

does one of those calculator websites have a backward math function, i.e i know that i have 60 input to spread across 5 machines which would normally required 150 input, and i want each machine to run constantly, i'll need to set their clocks at a certain %, but i dunno what

is it as simple as 60/150?

turns out it is

[wintry aurora]

I don't know for others, but for greenies calculator, if it's over 2.5 (though you can still go ahead and do it below 2.5), divide by the number of machines or whatever you want and if the number is say 1.2345567, that comes out as 123.4556%

Unless you mean a different proccess.

[crystal charm]

i had 60 iron ingots coming into 5 constructors for iron plates

each constructor has a default of 30 input p/m for 100% efficiency

so, instead of making any machines lag, i just set them all to 40%

when i increase the iron output later (which i soon will now that i've got mk2 miners) i can increase that 40%

[thorn bane]

you could also just place 2 and then once you get mk2 miners you can place 2 more in a manifold
just leave space for it

[crystal charm]

i started in the northern forest this time, so, lots of mountains, not alot of horizontal space, i'm designing buildings to have vertical expansion potential, once i've buffed all those miners and added more smelters etc, i'll just add another floor to the processing building

but honestly, my need for iron plates will dwindle over time

it's screws atm that concern me, i know how much of a pain they are for above tier 4

so i'm going to have a floor dedicated to the bastards

i just wish i'd found that alt recipe of ingots into screws

[wintry aurora]

Not that hard to do HDD hunting.

Easier once you get the explorer though.

[thorn bane]

easier once you get the jetpack xD

[magic island]

both the alt recipes for screws are godsends compared to the default. a lot of alt recipes have tradeoffs, but the screw ones are just pure upside

i will always enjoy being able to just feed in a couple of beams and get an endless firehose of screws in return

[thorn bane]

the screw alts are not resource efficient compared to steelrod -> screw
ofc the upside is just too good not to use xD

[wintry aurora]

Cast screw is actually just as efficient as default, just removes a step

[magic island]

cast screws use the same amount of iron using less than half the constructors

[wintry aurora]

But uh, I guess efficiency depends on what metric you're looking at.

[thorn bane]

yes but if you have the steelrod recipe it becomes alot more efficient

[wintry aurora]

Steel screw is competitive though.

And there's other recipes that remove screws.

[thorn bane]

sure i actually use steel screws even though im using pure iron/copper/quartz/caterium

[wintry aurora]

Yea, in terms of pure output, it's no contest.

[thorn bane]

steel rod screws and iron wire are the 2 recipes i dont use because the downsides (more buildings -> less fps) are just too bad in my opinion

i really hate recipes that have building amount as a downside
with how bad fps scaling is in this game that should never be the case for the most resource efficient recipe imo

[wintry aurora]

FPS isn't that bad yet, though I haven;t built super huge or anything yet.

[thorn bane]

its just the fact that you can always build bigger so fps will eventually drop

[wintry aurora]

True

[thorn bane]

for example i have constant 20 fps in my U5 playthrough now 😦

[wintry aurora]

Your computer must either be worse or you have a far bigger factories than I do.

(gonna go with far bigger factories)

[magic island]

there should be more recipes like steel screw that churn out just absurd amounts of an item. not too many, of course, for balance's sake, but steel screws feel good and i want more where that came from

all the manufacturer recipes are so slow, they should have just one that uses 4 different items to make like.... 500 rods/min. what will i do with those rods? beats me

[wintry aurora]

Yea, I needed like 4 manufacturers to make the amount of crystal oscillators I needed.

Not overclocked btw.

[thorn bane]

i7-6700k
GTX 1070
so both xD

[wintry aurora]

That is definetly WAY bigger factories.

Why are you still using biomass burners though? Or just never removed?

[thorn bane]

just never removed

maybe i should remove them xD

[wintry aurora]

Apparently even the two on the back of the HUB are counted.

[thorn bane]

oh i actually also still have my wood->biomass->solid biomass constructors xD

[wintry aurora]

Somehow I still have more storage containers than you do?

[thorn bane]

its roughly 1 per item

*item type

[wintry aurora]

Although I do have two stacks of industrial storage containers being ladders, so, that adds to the count somewhat.

Otherwise, it's mostly one per item type.

It's not a huge lot more though, 116 compared to yours. The two ladder-stacks probably account for like 20.

[lost marsh]

Hello! I made a tool, and I was directed to this channel to share it

I was kinda unhappy with existing calculators because something always felt off, or it was dependent on precise production percentages so I made this google sheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15ST6nDH9iHB13tGAY3CGjPzjeKqcaIlEz6wVrA3QFlQ/edit?usp=sharing

I originally made it for a youtube series I was starting, but I don't know if that's happening anymore

if anyone wants to, they can make a copy to their drive and mess with it, and ideally ping me if they find issues or questions :P

updating the blue fields automatically updates all other fields appropriately

[wind spade]

Hi, just out of curiosity (I made satisfactorytools.com), what did you found missing from existing calculators? Any feedback is valuable to me 🙂

[wind spade]

actually, a lot of the recipes have more upsides than cast screw

cast screw just saves a bit of power, compared to e.g. stitched plates, which saves power and resources

[fierce ruin]

@wind spade fyi, u5 version does really... strange charts with "maximize": https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=0PHLx0G0oHwUjY6VWEuy

[wind spade]

what's so strange about this?

[crystal charm]

did they change the damage for guns?

i remember someone telling me the rebar gun hit for way more damage than the rifle

[wind spade]

it does. But it has less DPS

[crystal charm]

and it might, but it still took 3 hits to take down a standard fire shooty mob

which is long reload times, compared to the rifle which takes about 5-6 hits to drop one, and reloads super fast

[fierce ruin]

that's definitely not maximum coke produced, if it goes for only 80 and shows the rest as byproduct heavy oil residue

[wind spade]

it's maximum coke produced because it has to be the same as plastic and rubber

multiple maximisations mean that all the items have to be produced at the same rate

[fierce ruin]

ah, I see
that's definitely not what I'd expect, but given that, the chart makes sense

[wind spade]

it's not how I want it to be in the future, but it is how it works now

[fierce ruin]

given that the list of outputs is prioritized, my first idea of how "maximize" would work was "try maximizing the first item, then the second, etc"

[wind spade]

it isn't prioritised

you can just sort it for convenience

[fierce ruin]

I see

[wind spade]

in the future I want it to maximise in a way that you'd probably expect more - first try to maximise all products to same value, then repeat it with all products that still can be produced

so in your case it would make 80 for each and then check again and see that it still can do more coke

[fluid forge]

@fierce ruin it did find this one

[frosty owl]

If possible, I think it'd be nice if they were prioritized 👀

[wind spade]

won't help if it produces the same of each 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

Dunno about that, but I would appreciate if it explicitly prioritized a certain maximization over another one or stuff like that

[lunar pivot]

How do i get the ore?

[deft lichen]

you can still hand mine or use portable miners

or just... walk to another node, the one to the north of you isn't obstructed

[lunar pivot]

Ah okay

[vast jungle]

Is there a simple (in terms of buildings) way to produce Packaged Fuel? I experimented both with the default Plastic/Fuel production as with DPF and a recycling loop, but everything seems to be horrible complicated just for Jetpack fuel...

[tropic hawk]

nope. Once you introduce packagers, things get messy

[thorn bane]

for the jetpack i just do residual fuel -> packager together with default canisters (from plastic)

[vast jungle]

the problem is not just the packagers... its also the production of the plastic containers... the numbers are all over the place, regardless what you get as a by-product, its not enough to produce the second stuff you need ^^

the easiest Chain I found is using HOR, Residual Plastic and Residual Fuel... but then you have Fuel leftover, which you cannot sink

[acoustic lichen]

which is the best place to make batteries?

[tropic hawk]

you can burn it though

[vast jungle]

hmm... just using a Fuel Generator as a sink...

[tropic hawk]

its what I do.

[thorn bane]

oh wtf

[vast jungle]

this could allow the whole thing run with only three Refineries... hmm

[tropic hawk]

could be worse. you could have a self feeding system or two in there

[vast jungle]

I thought about doing it with 4 Refineries...

HOR => DPF => Recycled Plastic/Rubber... but for just Jetpack fuel 😉

[tropic hawk]

for jetpack fuel: Most efficient source is to go from HOR->DF->Packager

and use water to make extra plastic, or whatever

[vast jungle]

I am in my current session Tier 6... so I would have to use DPF ^^

[tropic hawk]

at least in my experience

[tropic hawk]

ah. Sorry, I am used to having blenders

[thorn bane]

i think i would do this
but i usually just use my exisiting plastic factory and use the HOR for fuel and plastic for canisters

[tropic hawk]

why not activate the Residual Plastic recipe so you can use the P. Resin

[thorn bane]

dont want to deal with water
efficeincy is kinda what ever imo since its just a consumable anyway

[tropic hawk]

fair.

[thorn bane]

i actually like the idea of recycled plubber though
super overengineered but i like it xD

[tropic hawk]

same here

[vast jungle]

I just built 12 DPF loops for a Fuel powerplant... maybe I should just give up and use another one for the Jetpack... sigh

[tropic hawk]

I mean, you can...

[thorn bane]

just build 1 fuel generator less and use an overflow splitter to container

[tropic hawk]

or underclock one

[vast jungle]

its not that easy without introducing a plastic source... a DPF-loop doesn't create or destroy containers

[thorn bane]

oooh youre right

[vast jungle]

so if you take out packaged fuel, you need a source of plastic to make containers

[magic island]

60 empty canisters and 60 fuel using 4 refineries, a blender, and a constructor. no excess byproduct

if you do diluted packaged fuel, the buildings change a bit but the ratios don't

[fierce ruin]

Plastic source: Poly Resin from the HOR you're converting everything to.

[tropic hawk]

he doesn't have blenders

[magic island]

then substitute the diluted packaged fuel recipe, which is the same thing, just in a refinery

[thorn bane]

oh youre using HOR and polymer resing interesting

[oblique hollow]

Poly Resin is a fun recipe if you make residual rubber / plastic

[thorn bane]

picture of that setup
i kinda like it
well except the water

[magic island]

yeah you can tune the ratio of the byproduct-only recipes to get exactly the amount of each that you need. in this case, 7:10 is the perfect ratio for getting matching amounts of fuel/canisters

[vast jungle]

I will have to think about the idea with Polymer Resin... (but need to get the HD first)
thank you for the input

[fierce ruin]

? Are you not already just changing the oil into HOR prior to the DPF loop.

[vast jungle]

Yes, but with only HOR you don't get enough resin for plastic

[fierce ruin]

??????????????????????????????

How small is this setup?

You specifically need only enough plastic to where if you take out 1 generator or underclock it you have the extra containers for packaging it to be stored.

All other containers in the loop still get recycled through it.
So you do not need that much extra plastic per minute for what you're asking?

[thorn bane]

gonna move this here
so if i have 1 train station loading at speed x
then it takes 6400/x time to load a train (200 stacksize)
so i want to check if that minus the docking pause is enough to fill the time
so i compare it to 6400/(2 * 780)
so in total (6400/x-(28/60)) * 1560=6400
plugging this into wolframalpha gives me 1400.7/min if i assume 28s docking time
so you can transport up to 1400/min from 1 station
so im exactly at the point with 1400 steelpipes/min?
did i make any math errors?

[ashen girder]

Don't train stations load/unload in constant time?

[thorn bane]

yes if i have 2x780 belts they load at 1560/min

[ashen girder]

And pretty sure it's 25 seconds.

[thorn bane]

its not

#math-and-meta message 27.08

[ashen girder]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Electric_Locomotive#Train_throughput
Update the wiki then.

[thorn bane]

@deft lichen

[fierce ruin]

This looks right to me. I know you can't ever hit 1560 and you'll get closer to it the longer the route is.

[thorn bane]

with 100 stack size i get 1270/min

[fierce ruin]

Unless you're filling the cart to the absolute limit I'm not sure stack size comes into play?

[thorn bane]

ye this is assuming wait until full

(and multiple trains)

[fierce ruin]

I wouldn't ever completely fill them though.

[mortal drift]

Stack size matters a lot of doing large hauls?

It's.. the most important matter probably.

[thorn bane]

but thats optimal for least traffic

[fierce ruin]

Unless you have it timed to begin the loading animation like the picosecond the final item is in the last stack.

[mortal drift]

ZyRaNex can you please take the exact time between the Honks of the two stations?

[thorn bane]

sure