math-and-meta

[wind spade]

That's why you build production based on logistics, not logistics based on production. Or at least take logistics into account when building production 😉

[rapid herald]

Underclocking is so O.P. Overclock Miners/Extractors and Underclock everything else. I've power for days!

[river night]

its just so annoying to build so many more machines

rather make one more powerplant, personally 😄

[fringe pawn]

The building count on underclocked pure ingot facilities and recycling loops... shudders

[rapid herald]

SMART mod did make Underclocking so much easier. Hope they update it once Experimental goes Early Access.

Want to Underclock, 81 Manufactures @ 11.344%? SMART Mod'll fix you right up auto connecting all four x81 inputs and the 81 outputs in less than 5 minutes.

[wind spade]

Too op for my taste

[frosty owl]

With copy-paste for recipes and Zoop I'm probably not gonna go back to smart...

[thorn bane]

so your saying a mod is making you use 30% of the power
that seems balanced and intended

[old scaffold]

I think you misread that. He’s saying that with the mod you can mass underclock a ton of machines (lower speed and power consumption) instead of doing it one by one manually

[molten whale]

how can this consumption exceed max consumption

also is there any issues with mk1 pipes im trying to fufill 8.333 fuel generators with regular fuel but even thoguh my refineries are at 100% only half of the generators are running

[fierce ruin]

#old-questions-and-help

[molten whale]

sorry i thought i was a maths problem

[thorn bane]

if i have 40 nuclear plants getting supplied by 13x 3 rods/5min and 1x 3 rods/15min
and the plants are balanced how will the input buffer look like?
i feel like it should be empty expect for 1 that has an extra rod but that 1 is not always the same reactor but im not sure

or will all of them eventually have 1 extra?

[rapid herald]

SMART mod does make it easy to build crazy size arrays of machines. But even without it, underclocking is crazy good.

For example: My "Plan" has me making 2 Crystal Oscillators a minute. Which is 2 Manufactures at 100% power totaling 110 MW. But if I instead build and feed 9 Manufactures underclocked all @ 22.222%, I'd only need 45 MW to run all 9. If I did 18 @ 11.111% I'd drop to just 28.8 MW.

[thorn bane]

so youre saving 81.2 MW
thats 1 coal generator
i think its faster to build 1 coal generator than to build 7 manufacturs (if you dont have smart mod)
thats kinda my point without smart its never worth to underclock in my opinion
so smart mod just changes the balancing in that aspect since CSS balanced their game specifically around not having that

[ashen girder]

It's never worth it to build additional machines to underclock. I'm a huge fan of underclocking to match ratios. 😄

[thorn bane]

sure

[ashen girder]

Maybe +1 machine. 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

So here's my question on that:
If something needs 13.5 machines, it is less MW to do 13 machines at 100% and 1 at 50%, or do 8 machine at 96% and 6 at 97%?

You're building 14 either way so does one save you MW over the other?

[ashen girder]

8 machine at 96 and 6 at 97.

[fierce ruin]

👍 been doing that. Just confirming.

[ashen girder]

It's ultimately a miniscule difference, though. 😂

[thorn bane]

why not just leave it at 100%?

[fierce ruin]

That 0.5 MW though...

[ashen girder]

Here's with 14x100% for comparison. 😛

[fierce ruin]

Just leave the 13? Or are you saying leave the 0.5 one at 100% also?

[ashen girder]

This is assuming a 4MW building.

[thorn bane]

all at 100%

[ashen girder]

Here it is with assemblers.

[fierce ruin]

Ew.
Fuck that.
Yellow lights are....
Actually would rather vomit in my mouth every time I coughed than intentionally have a yellow light.

[ashen girder]

And refineries.. 😂

[thorn bane]

so its just the yellow lights?

[fierce ruin]

Yes.

[thorn bane]

ah ok

[fierce ruin]

Efficiency First.

[ashen girder]

Manufacturers..

[fierce ruin]

Yellow = Efficiency Loss.

[fierce ruin]

I'm waiting for Particle Accelerators....

[ashen girder]

Uh.. I don't know how clock speed works for those.. and also what recipe you're using. 😅

[fierce ruin]

😂

[ashen girder]

I can do blenders if you like?

[fierce ruin]

I didn't care for the actual numbers.
Just the yes/no to my question.

So you posting numbers is all about making YOU feel better. 🙃😉

[ashen girder]

Those numbers weren't even for you though.

Those were for @thorn bane who asked what the point was.

Although, those aren't actually the most correct numbers.. since they won't be running 100%, but you're still spending more MJ producing output.

[thorn bane]

i mean underclocking those is less benefit than building multiple machines
and as ive stated before doing that is stupid imo

[ashen girder]

Well, the point here is you've got enough machines. You can just underclock them in place to get better numbers.

You need 13.5. You have 14.

Do you run all 14 at 100%? 13 at 100% and 1 at 50%? Or 96.5ish%?

[thorn bane]

still not worth the time imo

[ashen girder]

To.. literally adjust the clock speed on one machine? Seriously?

[thorn bane]

yep

[ashen girder]

More power to you.

[fierce ruin]

If I'm building the same number of machines it isn't about severity of benefit.
If I take 90-120s to fiddle with clocks and it is a benefit then worth.
🤷‍♂️

Building more just to underclock all even further is a bit much though, so I agree there.

[ashen girder]

I think we all largely agree there.

[thorn bane]

i just think any time invested underclocking any building is never worth compared to making more power

even if its just 2s adjusting the slider

[ashen girder]

It takes you 2s to slide the bar? 😛

[thorn bane]

probably more since most of the time you have to remember what to downclock to

[fierce ruin]

You're really going to hate how often I save 5 MW when I already have GW to spare then....

[ashen girder]

I mean. Do you not have things like "You need 13.5 X worth of output" in your plans?

[thorn bane]

i mean sure if its for your ocd like yellow lights thats fine by me
i just chose not to because imo its not time efficient

[thorn bane]

yes lots of em
i just build 14

[ashen girder]

Okay.. so you literally know what the percentage is then.

[fierce ruin]

Yeah, for me it is 100% about removing all yellow lights from existence.

[ashen girder]

"Oh. My plan says 13.5. So this last one's 50%."

Or, do what I do: let it stabliize then go to the last one, check its efficiency, and set its clockspeed to that. 😂

[fierce ruin]

(Which the funny part is, if you slot a power shard then UNDERclock the light is still blue 😂)

[thorn bane]

ok i like this one xD

[ashen girder]

Also, I actually don't underclock either. I just disagree that it's wasteful to underclock one machine when you don't need the full output.

But I like having backed up lines so I can just grab stacks of whatever whenever I want.

(I also love geothermals. I like my power graph looking a little crazy.)

[thorn bane]

im not saying its bad i just dont bother

[ashen girder]

I mean. You are saying its bad though. 😛

[thorn bane]

ok so if the last machine is only running at 50% it will also only use 50% of the power right?

[fierce ruin]

All of my builds are pre-planned on my notepad so I build each machine and set its clock when setting it up anyway.
So for the 8x96, 6x97 example, those are set once then copy/pasted to the future machines @thorn bane
It's not like I build them all then go back and hop to each machine.

[ashen girder]

Less than, actually.

About 32% of the power.

[thorn bane]

no bad time efficiency wise
the actual thing is good, just not worth my time

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I get that. 😂

[thorn bane]

nono i mean actually only runnin half the time

i guess half is 0.1 idle aswell

[ashen girder]

Oh, even then, it's using 50% instead of 32%.

50%+idle power.

Instead of 32% continuous.

[fierce ruin]

It saves you more to set it at 50 than to let it turn off half the time.

[thorn bane]

so the power savings depends on the individual underclock percentage?

[ashen girder]

Yes. It's exponential.

[thorn bane]

eh

[fierce ruin]

That's part of why I hate yellow lights so much.

[ashen girder]

Hence Sev's original question.

[thorn bane]

its different to compare it to a 100% machine and a machine running 50% of the time though

[ashen girder]

Sure, but that's not what he and I were comparing.

And I mentioned that my comparisons didn't account for that, because I already knew that it's strictly better to underclock n terms of power efficiency.

<@&387163995947270144> 👆 It was some cyrllic gibberish. 😂 Looked like spam.

[fierce ruin]

We're talking about the 0.5 from the 13.5 though.

Setting it at 100 and having it idle 50% of the time is more power drawn than just setting it to 50%.

[thorn bane]

im just curious by how much

[ashen girder]

Literally just told you. 32% for the underclock, 50%+idle for the full clock.

Also, it's more like 32.9%. So call it a third. 😂

[fierce ruin]

12.3 MJ vs. 7.89 MJ for every 6s cycle.

[ashen girder]

Lookit you coming in swinging with the joules.

[thorn bane]

so its 54 instead of 56?

[ashen girder]

Ayup.

[thorn bane]

so no oc to 1 at 50% is 1% power and 1 at 50% to 14 at 93... is 1% power

[ashen girder]

Assuming you never learned how to round, at least. 😂

[thorn bane]

?

[ashen girder]

Neither 53.3 nor 52.8 rounds to 54. 😛

Oh, you're ignoring the idle power.

[thorn bane]

ye

well it would be 54.05 so who cares

[ashen girder]

I wasn't even sure where 54 was coming from, so.. 😛

[thorn bane]

but ye seems like no UC to 1 machine UC is roughly like 1 machine UC to all UC

[ashen girder]

Here you go, manufacturers with 50% and no idle time.

12x100% + 1x150% on the top.

[hollow meteor]

you have to set what a machine produces. I have my clocking numbers figured out ahead of time, set one and copy paste. pretty easy to balance all at the same clock speed and it doesn't really take any more time to setup

[thorn bane]

all my machines in my games are at 100%
actually miners at 2.5 but you get the point

[ashen girder]

If you think about it, it can add up to pretty significant power savings over a single factory.

[thorn bane]

well im sure its under 1 nuclear plant so i really dont care xD

[ashen girder]

Sure, it's only 2 MW when you're looking at 14 smelters. 😂

Yeah, that's fair.

Like I said, I don't do it either, but there's absolutely good reasons to.

[fierce ruin]

Could do the comparison on Outpost 1 if you wanted a more tangible example.

See how many MW are saved across 135 HMFs/min.

[thorn bane]

sure

[fierce ruin]

@ashen girder 👍

[ashen girder]

<_< ?

Can't tell if I'm being asked to do something or being told something's gonna be done. 😂

[fierce ruin]

Being told to do something. Best of both options.

😏😏😏😏😏😏😏😏😏😏😏

😂

[ashen girder]

I don't even know what I'm being told to do tho.

[iron prairie]

I think I've finally come up with a decent way of dealing with coal being 1:1 with iron for solid steel except for that little bit you need for gunpowder and gas filters.

Assuming use of T3 miners, take a pure iron and a pure coal node. Split off 60 coal for filters and gunpowder, leaving 720 coal for steel.

Then, run 8x pure iron refineries (280 ore -> 520 ingots) and smelt the leftover 500 ore, providing 1020 total ingots. Split off 720 for the steel, and you have 300 ingots left. You can then either match that with an impure coal node, use it for iron wire, basically whatever you want.

Or, to think of it another way, by mixing in 8 pure iron refineries with your smelters, you can match a pure iron node with 1x pure and 1x impure coal nodes to get 1530 steel ingots and 60 spare coal for miscellaneous items.

[ashen girder]

Coke steel? 👀

[fierce ruin]

Love me some coke.

[jaunty smelt]

anyone know best setup to get the most plastic and rubber ?

[wind spade]

alt HOR + residual rubber + diluted fuel + recycled plastic + recycled rubber

[jaunty smelt]

ok thank i look at that

[deft lichen]

how much oil do you have available?

[jaunty smelt]

1800

[deft lichen]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=8O2wAGLprm4c0kQaxkca

this setup produces the most plastic and rubber, but is way more complex compared to the default recipe

[jaunty smelt]

@deft lichen thank you i will have a look on there

[versed mango]

Hello, not sure if this is the right channel, but I'm looking for a machine readable source of the recipe definitions of Satisfactory Recipes. I found the /CommunityResources/Docs/Docs.json file and looked into it, but it feels like the recipes are very strangely defined. Is there a logic or "language" behind such an example?

"mIngredients": "((ItemClass=BlueprintGeneratedClass'\"/Game/FactoryGame/Resource/Parts/IronRod/Desc_IronRod.Desc_IronRod_C\"',Amount=1),(ItemClass=BlueprintGeneratedClass'\"/Game/FactoryGame/Resource/Parts/IronPlate/Desc_IronPlate.Desc_IronPlate_C\"',Amount=1),(ItemClass=BlueprintGeneratedClass'\"/Game/FactoryGame/Resource/Parts/Cement/Desc_Cement.Desc_Cement_C\"',Amount=1))",

[river night]

the costs are in unreal ini syntax, its just what it is, its not exactly hard to figure out that the conveyor pole (which I presume your example is) costs 1 rod, 1 plate and 1 concrete

[versed mango]

yeah. the xample was conveyor pole

hm ok. so i would have to figure out a way to parse this with the programming language i want to use

[sullen cloud]

@wind spade could give you more insights. Or the guys on the modding discord

[river night]

as long as you can match opening and closing braces and pair up stuff like that, it should be relatively easy to parse. But yes it'll require some manual work, since its not an otherwise common format

[versed mango]

well the language would be PHP so i guess this will be some creative regex

I oculd try some native PHP ini parsing functions but i doubt they would work for these strings

[versed mango]

Thanks. I might ask on the modding discord aswell, but i guess there is no "finished" solution to read that data into php arrays or something

[deft lichen]

I'm not sure how accurate and up-to-date you need the data to be, but we have a cargo table on the wiki from which you can query recipes
Greeny has tools that can parse Docs.json really well, so he is the go-to

[frosty owl]

We know we have to go green, enough politics already!

[oblique hollow]

Throw it into a json formatter

This is a raw export

[versed mango]

Well i'm playing with a friend and i'm currently using google spreadsheets to track what productions we have and if the productions match and so on. but slowly i'm getting to the limits of this tool and it gets tedious to have to look up and add the recipes again and again. so i'm thinking of moving this to a PHP website as it is a language i do often.

so i don't need to have the data ultra up-to-date.

[oblique hollow]

I threw the file into an online formatter and got a very clean result

[versed mango]

a json formatter got me the overview. but i need to parse the ingredients and this unity ini format threw me off

[oblique hollow]

unity?

you doing this in unity?

[versed mango]

the string in the mIngredients field

sorry unreal 😄

[oblique hollow]

ah, that.
i dunno how useful it would be, buuuut consider moving to the modding discord. theres a mod called ContentLib that allows recipe definition and overwriting which has all this plotted down much more neatly

[versed mango]

and now i'm thinking of doing this in PHP.

[versed mango]

interesting. could you link me that mod?

[oblique hollow]

this is how the "simplified" approach would be

[shadow prairie]

Ask for mods over at the [official modding discord](#welcome message). - <3 @deft lichen

Nov 14, 2021, 11:47 AM

[oblique hollow]

most recipes follow a format like above, just with more lengthy definitions

[deft lichen]

well the items use full debug paths don't they

[oblique hollow]

yeah, i think.
though every item has a unique identifier and mostly consistent path structure

so by doing some generalization, you can define things with just the "Desc_[Itemname]"

[versed mango]

Can I use ContentLib to "read" the current content of the Docs.json and print/write it for me in that more readable json structure?

[oblique hollow]

hmmm.... you would have to ask Nog himself about that

lets see....

hm, no, I cant give you any more info.
you would need to join the moding discord and ask Nog about that

[versed mango]

i'm on that discord now 😉

I will try to find and ask him

[oblique hollow]

ah, didnt notice

[versed mango]

Should I ask him in a channel or DM him?

[oblique hollow]

em, ill dm you an invinte to his own DC.
forgot about that

since this will probably be length

[frosty owl]

What would the best way to reduce radiation in the unloading of uranium for unclear processing?
I was thnking: drone, fast belt to container, balance, fast belt to processing machines
I'm wondering wether balancing to keep the ore "mostly" into the container (and have as little on belt around the factory as possible) or if it'd be better to let the ore "spread out" radiation-wise...

If it doesn't spread out, I shouldn't even feel the uranium belts, ideally, just some radiation around the unloading container🤔

[fierce ruin]

it stacks, so there's actually not much difference. Keeping lots of waste (or radioactive products) in a container makes a bigger high rad zone, keeping items on a belt - no so much (as they're spread)

[frosty owl]

Balancing avoid stacking anywhere but into the container, that's the point
Havigg radiation only in the container would be pretty nice

[fierce ruin]

the main thing there is to avoid bottlenecks at the unloading station itself

[frosty owl]

It's a drone 😆

[hazy dune]

What do I split my ingots in to? Half to plates and half to rods? Or should I do a different ratio?

[fierce ruin]

if you're very early in the game, like at tier 1 and before any serious factory building, then produce both equally. A little bit later it's generally better to focus on producing higher complexity items (reinf iron plates, rotors) while having a little iron flow diverted to make stuff like iron plates and rods at a very slow rates

[hazy dune]

Yea like I’m making reinforced irl;plates and rotors

So what’s a good ratio for plates:rods

[fierce ruin]

well, look at the recipes and do math 🙂

[hazy dune]

Not sure what maths to do

Hold on I do know

I think

[fierce ruin]

e.g. when making reinf iron plates using base recipe, the ratio would be 1:3 (3 ingots for rods to 9 ingots for plates make 1 reinf plate)

buuuut if using iron wire + stitched iron plate alt recipes, the ratio would be 5 : 3.704 (to wire, not rods) 🙂

[knotty frigate]

Question: I have a (600m long) belt that I want to hold a shuffled/random set of items. What's the best way to automatically load the belt such that I minimise the lengths of concurrent runs of the same item, and ensure that the repeat cycle for the loaded pattern is kept as long as practically possible

[fierce ruin]

sadly, without mods you're unlikely to reach any stability in such a system

[knotty frigate]

Planning to just loop the belt once loaded, rather than use it for live transport, as I don't want to keep the massive number of splitters & mergers needed to make and unmake such a setup. So it doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough to not have an obvious repeating pattern

[fierce ruin]

well, in that case you can create any pattern entirely manually by placing items (1 of each or such) in a container and then outputting it onto the target belt
would take some time, though

[knotty frigate]

This is why I'm trying to work out an automated way to do this, given I've ten belts of ~1200m length to fill 😂 Oh how we must suffer for our art 😂

[fierce ruin]

well, "automated" and "random" don't go nicely together

[knotty frigate]

that's why I mentioned repeat cycle in my above question 😉 Not my first rodeo :P

I'm looking into superpermutation algorithms

Ultimately we do something approximating random via an inner & outer riffle shuffles, so that's basically how I'd arrange this

[frosty owl]

Setup someachines to fill up the belt for you. Even the same machine with different clocks can output on the belt in "random" timings, breaking up the existing pattern

This would also mean you could reproduce a pattern, given the same machines, and belt lenght

[knotty frigate]

Clock timings is a good idea, especially if I use prime numbers for the clock speeds so that no input is a multiple of another / multiple of a factor of another 🤔

[frosty owl]

Also takes away the need for manual filling of the belt, once set up ^^

[knotty frigate]

You are a genius, thank you 💖 Now to test this to make sure it actually looks right, and if I need to jumble it more I suspect a splitter and two unequal path lengths to a merger would suffice, maybe 🤔

[frosty owl]

Anyone has a screen of a nice vertical transport pillar for pioneer movement? ^^ I'm looking for ideas 😆
Example: pillar with stairs and walls around it, with hypertube going along outside, or walkways+hypertube...

[frosty owl]

You already added 2 very nice ideas 👍

[oblique hollow]

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/61912387831c85205235dd5d
Heres a very interesting.... quirk? with blenders right now

took a while to figure this out

it interesting but not very practical and ruins the look of my factory with wonky 120° offset colors :I

[fierce ruin]

at least now you can pretend you're making skittles

[wintry aurora]

I thought the color of the liquid depended on what you're making?

[oblique hollow]

Yep

But if you use swatches, they override it

[obtuse tundra]

let's say I was doing battery production. Water is "created" as a byproduct in the blender. If I were to send that byproduct water back into something else, could I subtract the amount of water created as a byproduct from the amount needed in the other production line?

[oblique hollow]

Yes

I do that for my battery production. I need 100 water for the acid, but make 60 as a byproduct

So i only need 40 fresh water

Just underclocking the extractor isnt enough of course. Limit them with a valve

[wintry aurora]

I thought you're supposed to keep the fresh and byproduct water lines separate?

[oblique hollow]

It depends

Aluminum has LOTS of it and tends to clog

[hazy dune]

45 ingots a min will get me 30 plates a min right?

Cause the ratio is 3:2

[deft lichen]

correct

[hazy dune]

Thanks

55 ingots a min should give me 5 reinforced iron plates a min surely

[deft lichen]

I think you need 60 for that

use https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[hazy dune]

Thanks, saved me a headache!

[obtuse tundra]

With drones can you really only send them to one port and then back?

That seems incredibly inneficient

[elder parcel]

Anyone have a quick link to the playthrough that maximizes ticket output. I couldn't find it on the interwebz

[hazy dune]

With a normal limestone node what’s the best option, underclock my miner or just feed the rest back into the system?

[elder parcel]

Depends on how many nodes are nearby. If just the one, I'd just underclock the miner.

[hazy dune]

Yeah just the one

I’ve just remembered I haven’t unlocked under and overlocking :facepalm:

[fierce ruin]

The fact the ignore all terrain and you don't have to setup a route or track for them.. just drop and go... plus you can then just add more drones to the port to increase throughput...

Sounds broken AF and balanced only by their point-to-point limitation and battery requirement.

[ashen girder]

I somehow missed that you could add more drones to a port. I've assumed this whole time they were 1:1.

That makes them way more useful. 😂

[sullen cloud]

This guide has all you need. Only the battery consumption is outdated. https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/mbqex4/the_ultimate_drone_guide/

[ashen girder]

Each drone port can "own" exactly one (1) drone and no more.
🤔

[fierce ruin]

In other news:
Are people still saying their pause nodes reset to 1s when they reload the game?

Because I believe that is intentional.

[ashen girder]

I haven't seen anything about it, but then people are still convinced trucks are broken. 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

I'll hop into #satisfactory-experimental and see.

[ashen girder]

..can you clarify what you mean by this?

[fierce ruin]

Meh. Not in the mood to atm. Sorry.

Personal shit happened this weekend so I have a very one-track mind atm.

[ashen girder]

Hope your day gets better then. No worries.

[fierce ruin]

It should.

Also I am moving from the DD back to the RD...
So there is a 63km loop that my 1 tractor is doing to move all my shit for me 😂

Takes 60 fuel per trip.

[frosty owl]

Imagine it like this: it's so broken, you'll easily run out of batteries because you're always like "eh, I could just drone it there" xD

[patent briar]

Interesting thought:

How efficient are drones in terms of MW for head lift compared to pumps?

IE, pipe fluid into packager, lift it really high up with drones, then unpack.

Assuming the drones go straight up and we ignore the other two axis of movement, purely using them for headlift

I wonder if there is a breakpoint of headlift where the drone comes out ahead

[still trout]

8mw for 50m of headlift, you'd need a really tall tower for it to be efficient

[patent briar]

Hmm, I guess since drones use batteries though, and we cant easily directly translate a battery to actual grid power, its not really a 1:1: conversion

I guess we can calculate how many megawatts 5 batteries takes to make though!

[still trout]

materials to make it is uncomparable to power

[patent briar]

right but making it consumes power, the Manufacturer uses 55 MW to produce 8 batteries/sec, and the Blender uses 75 MW to produce 3/sec

Assuming a 1km trip, then I think if I am mathing that right, 5 batteries will consume 34.375 MW, is that right?

[still trout]

how many batteries does a drone take, how much does the electricity for the parts for batteries, and doesnt a drone platform take some electricity too?

[patent briar]

Ah but I suppose we need to calculate the total MW for the full crafting process, not just the last step

[still trout]

a better measurement would be KJ/item

[patent briar]

Ah you are right, so Im starting with the min 1km trip which is 5 batteries.

Oh jesus the drone port also takes 100mw lol, thats a lot

[patent briar]

Thats probably right

[still trout]

since W = J / S

yeah, with these numbers, we also need the back-and-forth time for the drone, and drone capacity

[patent briar]

Ok so we have 100 MJ/sec from the drone port + 5 batteries per trip on the drone min, and then 1 battery is another km of headlift

[still trout]

• packagers

conclusion: seems very inefficient

[patent briar]

So packagers can do 2 water/sec, assuming we benchmark against mk2 pipes we need 300 packagers, which is 10MJ/sec a pop, so thats 3000MJ/sec for packaging.

Then another 3000MJ/sec to unpackage.

So thats 6000MJ/sec for the packing and unpacking.

Wait why am I doing this this is dumb

I am dumb

The way more efficient process is just using conveyor belts

[still trout]

mm

you know what's more efficient though?

just use pipes

[patent briar]

Conveyor belts use zero power (lol), so we should just assume using those.

They would consume 6000MJ/sec for 600 water/sec

[still trout]

300 packagers is very bad

conclusion: don't

[patent briar]

Maybe, so 6000 MJ/sec is the equivalent of, lets see here...

750 Mk2 Pumps.

Which would produce 37 km of headlift!

[still trout]

yeah...

for a single mk2 pipe

we'd need to go up 37km for packaging to be more energy efficient than pipes with pumps

[patent briar]

Yup! Though on another note, a single Mk5 lift can handle 1,560 water total on its bandwidth.

Which is slightly more than 5x pipes side by side! 😄

Would take 1500 packagers on each end to handle that bandwidth though! 😄

[still trout]

your math is slightly wrong btw, you said 300 packagers for 600/s, which is 36000/min

right?

[patent briar]

Oh thats right my bad

I forgot its 300/min not 300/sec in pipes

[still trout]

/s and /min are pretty different

[patent briar]

for sure hold on lemme redo that, it may be waaaay less

[still trout]

it will be way less

[patent briar]

yeah only 5 packagers!

[still trout]

damn

[patent briar]

My bad hahaha, so thats only 10 packagers total

[still trout]

which is 300mw?

[patent briar]

100mw looks like

[still trout]

ah

still 12,5 mk2 pumps

[patent briar]

Which is the equivalent of 12.5 pumps, which would be 625m of headlift

[still trout]

yeah

[patent briar]

Thats... actually a situation you could create. Like if you are lifting fluid up a massive factory, like a big tower you built, that may occur no?

[still trout]

but why would you do anything that tall and pump liquids up there

[patent briar]

The factory must grow!

[still trout]

600m tall tower not happening in my books :p

[patent briar]

Thats uh... 156+ thicc bois tall!

very large haha

[still trout]

go for it, if you wanna

[patent briar]

But the bandwidth is very thicc. Equivalent of 2 pipes!

Actually 2.5 pipes but yeah

Summary: If for some godforsaken reason you need to move liquid up >625m, its more efficient to package it!

[frosty owl]

I think kibitz's tower had fluid processing that up high. And his isn't the highest build around 😆

[still trout]

mm, but you also need a conveyor going down with the empty cans

[patent briar]

Actually that is specifically water, it may be better or worse for other fluids

[patent briar]

Thats true, so you need 2 belts instead of 2.5 pipes

I will say though, for even less heights, 2 belts is a fuck tonne easier than having dozens of pumps lol

[still trout]

you wanna hear my solution?

don't build tall

[fierce ruin]

Can't you just use the fluid buffer mechanic to get that amount of headlift for free?

[frosty owl]

The drones bringing the fluid could also bring back the canisters

[still trout]

a drone station eats 100MW

[patent briar]

we realized a plain ole conveyor lift is way better, it consumes 0 MW

[still trout]

so 200MW for another 25 pumps equilevant

[frosty owl]

I though that was just the obvious answer 😆

[still trout]

actually, since a conveyor handles 2.5, let's calculate that

12.5 packagers on both sides, 25 total

250

equilevant of 2.5 pipes, so 83.3MW/pipe

500m of lift?

eh

[fierce ruin]

but that's cheating! 😲

[patent briar]

Okay so we can effectively calculate the formula as:

n = Fluid/Min consumed by 1x Packager at 100%
IE water, n = 120

m = meters breakpoint where packagers feeding a belt become more MW efficient

(600,000/8n)=m

[fierce ruin]

Not really...

It's all fluid dynamics.

[patent briar]

Hmmm... I think I did the math wrong, thats not quite right, did I miss a variable?

[fierce ruin]

well yes, it's only "extremely not realistic" aka the game isn't complex enough to handle such situations in a believable way

[patent briar]

Oh no nevermind google interpreted the , as a . lol

[knotty frigate]

My belt content 'randomiser' works! nicely \o/

[patent briar]

so for water as an example, n=120, 600000/(8x120)=625 !

Yup, so the math checks out, water's breakpoint is 625m up

[fierce ruin]

Looks at giant floating object scanner in the atmosphere...
Mutters to self about "realism"... 😂

[still trout]

for 1 pipe and 600 input

[patent briar]

It should be the same regardless of input/output, since packagers underclock at 1:1

[still trout]

try it with 2.5, the said capacity of a mk5 belt

[patent briar]

Well I guess belts technically get more efficient for <600 throughput as you have to round your fluid MW up to 1 pipe no matter what, IE even if its only 100 m3 of fluid, you still have to use a whole pipe, you cant use 1/6th of a lift pump

[patent briar]

Yeah I can see it working out cause you cant have .5 of a pipe right, so you have to round up to 3 pipes worth of pumps

So your breakpoint lowers cause you are calculating based on 3 pipes worth of input... hold on here I can... I can add this to the formula I think, one sec

Im gonna need to whip out google sheets for this one cause now we have two variables!

[still trout]

now make the formula with variables being input fluid amount and packager "efficiency" for said liquid

((2x/y)/round up(x/600))/8×50=
x being input fluid amount and y being packager capacity
m is the break even point

i overcomplicated it i think

also probably full of mistakes

[patent briar]

Done!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OYSyZl_BYZGris7viJQBsrEXm9DSLKY_eXs723iWHw0/edit?usp=sharing

Enjoy!

Okay after redoing the math, the breakpoint for water is only 200m up!

Much less, I misread the math on items/sec for packagers

Or wait 400m? I forgot to double the packagers again

Oh right water is 60/min so....

Okay here we go, this should be right now I think...

[heavy burrow]

So I have been playing a few months (T7) but I’m in decision paralysis when it comes to planning my own bases. How do you know how many of an item to make if I don’t know what the next item I’ll need to craft/assemble/fabricate requires. Throw in alt recipes and my indecisiveness gets compounded. Does anyone know of a good guide to get started with the math and meta of the game?

[stark bronze]

Rebuilding everything once new meta is unlocked is the easiest, but if you want to plan ahead one of the strategies i discovered is to try and overbuild basic stuff and let resources balance between them

[heavy burrow]

I understand what you’re saying. I guess Im more mad at myself for only building enough for now and also because “I didn’t spread my factory out enough and now I’m paying for it” situation. Plus I went the Autosorter route for multiuse belts to a central storage and have no clear way to clean up my mess without days of rework OR a fresh start. I do appreciate the advice though.

[fringe pawn]

Do a fresh start in a different part of the map. I started in the grasslands, for instance. But now I'm mostly in the dune desert and northern forest.

[stark bronze]

starting location only matters before your first tractor

[topaz hedge]

or train. lol

I started in northern forest, and I'm mostly in grasslands now.

[ashen girder]

Trains v Belts

[knotty frigate]

(for the math and meta regulars, the thread has been made to try and move a debate from #satisfactory-experimental into a more appropriate channel)

[thorn bane]

the way i did is is to have the container far away from the processing and then limit the throughput of the belt so theres minimum radiation from the belts

[knotty frigate]

Nice limiter!

[cinder silo]

Wouldn't a lower mark belt also limit throughput?

[river night]

only to 60, if you want to go lower you need to add stuff

[cinder silo]

Posted question in wrong section, sorry.

[dark summit]

Wouldn't this just mean more belts and still the same amount of radiation in one area?

[frosty owl]

A belt full of uranium dages you more than one half/full
Eh: 60 uranium/min on a mk1 belt is X radiation. Same amount on mk5 would be... less than 1/3 of the radiation (you have 1 uranium every 12m or belt, pretty much)

[frosty owl]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too 🤔. Hope it'll be as good as I think...
Speaking of, what's the that balancer for?
The signs sure make for more comprehensive balancing 😏

[thorn bane]

its 1 input 1 output so its not really a balancer
it just limits the belt to 333.3333

so exactly how much i need so my belts are never full

the initial reason was because that node only gives 300 so i just let it fill an ISC until i go find another uranium node

[frosty owl]

What's consuming such a weird amount?
I'm surprised how yoh always end up with massive balancers/reducers

[thorn bane]

40 nuclear plants is 333.333 uranium

i wanted multiples of 10 for nice waste balancing

[frosty owl]

Ahhh, makes sense...
Though... Wouldnt it be easier to balance the waste itself? 😆

In the end, the waste just needs to be split between in 4, sending 3 to the blenders and 1 to the accelerators, regardless of how much waste is coming in 🤔

[thorn bane]

no as in 300 waste -> 8 non-fissile belnders

so i never have more than 15 waste in my blenders for minimum radiation

[frosty owl]

Eg: I make the rods in setups of 150 uranium/min. This makes for some very nice numbers all along the production chain (excluding silica, quartz crystals and rubber, those are a bit weird but easily overflowable). This means it makes 3.6 rods meaning 180 waste/min, exactly 1.8 accelerators and 3.6 blenders. All pretty neat numbers ^^

[thorn bane]

i guess if you underclock the accelerators and blenders its fine
i just wanted all of those at 100%

[fierce ruin]

Everyone hates Fertile Uranium 😭

[thorn bane]

fuck fertile uranium

its bad for sinking rods AND its bad for using the rods

[fierce ruin]

That would be what you do with fertile things. 😏

[frosty owl]

Originally, I wanted to have them all at 100% and have a small section deal with the excess waste (bundles of 600/min), but this works better for me atm
Still, 300/min is a pretty easy split... What's the remaining 33.333 balanced for? 🤔

[fierce ruin]

Doesn't it net you more rods per uranium though?

[frosty owl]

I might use it to get rid of the last 300/min uranium. Unsure wether it'd be convenient enough for me to try 🤔

[thorn bane]

333.333 uranium -> 13.333 rods manufacturers (actually manifolded because uranium stuff isnt that radiactive so i dont bother)

[frosty owl]

Urgh, I so hate that choice of numbers ahahahah

I've gotten really sensitive to ".xxxx" in SF

[thorn bane]

id rather have weird numbers for uranium to have clean numbers for plutonium

[frosty owl]

I'm saying you could have both xD

The 100% clock on plutonium makes it a bit harder, but still doable

[thorn bane]

also thats not really a problem since ive limited uranium to 333.333 so i can just leave all at 100%

(exactly .333 btw since its 40/3)

btw i dont think i have a single machine underclocked

[frosty owl]

I can only say that about Iron Wire constructors

I'm kind of excited to finish up nuclear processing today... But I'm also scared... What if I find I need to redesign again or something?

[thorn bane]

oh btw do you know if the machine is using the oc percentage or if it calculates the runtime and then rounds?

im just hooked up my extra 12.33 manufacturers 🙂

hoping i didnt screw up on silica or quickwire

[lone moth]

how do u produce 100k mw

nuclear?

[thorn bane]

yep 40 nuclear plants

[lone moth]

holy shit ahhAHAHAHAHA

[frosty owl]

I tested for it with a concrete into encased pipes setup.
The concrete/min is outside of the clock's possibilities, and inputting the item/min resulted in a 0.000something% less than what I needed, making the encased pipes starve on concrete and ruin my precious sushi's rates

[frosty owl]

I might have misunderstood your question...
I always check with an external calculator (phone or whatever): clock*base production must be equal or higher than the output you desire. I always check for this if the clock gets weird number

[thorn bane]

i know the items per min gets translated to overclock%
but does the overclock% get translated to cycle time

[frosty owl]

I don't think there's rounding between the clock and the production cycle timing...
Never noticed that

[thorn bane]

since i only have 1 planner for the whole base and my silica and quickwire is getting used for computers aswell its kinda inprecise at the moment since im not at 100% quickwire production at the moment (but also not 100% computer so i think its ok?)

[fierce ruin]

Ugh, I just realized I will be using over half of all quartz on the map this run...

[thorn bane]

im actually using way more limestone than i thought
3336 limestone but only 1000 quartz/800 sulfur

[fierce ruin]

Crystal Computers and RCUs are chewing through it.

The ratio is perfect, so it's too good to ignore.
Just a logisitics concern atm.

[frosty owl]

Apparently, you risk getting your Bae stolen from you
Check the answered message
#satisfactory-memes message

[thorn bane]

ye i tried that once and gave up on it
#screenshots message

[frosty owl]

Silica in bundles of 6 assblers FTW
That 90-150 quartz-limestone input is so nice for right sushi designs
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/899438167453745183/Screenshot20211018-01101100000.png

[fierce ruin]

Artistic sushi still has that aesthetic appeal to it 🙂

Manifold sushi... I'm sorry I ruined it...

[frosty owl]

Wdym "artistic"? XD
It's supposed to be mainly compact in this case

[fierce ruin]

"Balanced" sushi I would guess is the more correct term then.

[thorn bane]

ye i care way too much about time efficiency than to do sushi in my actual playthrough xD

[fierce ruin]

The clipping and the yellow lights are the reasons I respect you, but I will never like you.

[frosty owl]

First time I managed to feed multiple assemblers with half a foundation of belting space and no "proper" underfloor (the sushi is split in the 4m foundations of the floor)

[fierce ruin]

What do you need that much silica for anyway?

[thorn bane]

silicon circuit boards
im planning on 20 assembly director systems for dem nice

[fierce ruin]

Fair.

I will still never automate Project Assembly parts 😂

[frosty owl]

That's what surprised me. Generally speaking, one thinks about bulky balancers when imagining such sushi set ups, and yet... (searches for balancing pic)
This is why I actually decided for the design wherever I want a cleaner Floorplan (no double belt split for the 2 resources)

[thorn bane]

you dont need 20 ADS for the elevator xD
thats purely for awesome points

[fierce ruin]

By the time I get to acquiring my 4th golden cup, I am confident I will have unlocked everything in the shop.

Even with all the new additions.

[errant sable]

I’m not a fan of the space elevator parts

[thorn bane]

ye you dont need 7 million points per min to buy anything
its just purely for feeling awesome

[errant sable]

they feel grindy compared to the rest of the game

idk how to describe it

[thorn bane]

its imo the only real endgame
how many points can you make per min

[fierce ruin]

The entire game is grind?

[frosty owl]

Eg: all that production in the picture before (the part obljne) is handled by this whole lot of balancing, done at the unloading station, so little more than what I'd do anyway (so Tha station backs up on items faster, just a preference of mine)
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/765986766296449054/899439630640873482/Screenshot20211018-01112700000.png

[fierce ruin]

So something feeling grinding in comparison to grind is.... an odd perspective.

[errant sable]

it feels more grindy

[fierce ruin]

It's literally the same process as making any other part...

[errant sable]

parts for new tiers feels like you’re learning how to make new items and setting up production lines

[thorn bane]

but i need like 800 quartz and 1400 limestone
and setting up the prog. splitters really doesnt sound fun xD

[errant sable]

elevator parts is “fuck you we need 4000 of this stuff you unlocked 2 tiers ago”

[fierce ruin]

Parts for Project Assembly feels like why we are on the planet in the first place?

[thorn bane]

they are litterally the most advanced parts you can make? (atleast the last one)

[fierce ruin]

For each tier they are.

[errant sable]

the phase 4 parts aren’t as bad as the others

phase 3 is my least favourite

[fierce ruin]

So the literally grindiest grind of grindfest isn't as bad as the others???

[errant sable]

2500 of a really simple but expensive item

expensive for the amount of iron required

[frosty owl]

They're decently quick to set up. Imo (given my experience with them and their number), maybe in +-10% the time you'd need to place the manifold you would finish laying down and programming the entire thing
Note: it's 7 poggers every 8 machines, 2 items to be set every output

[fierce ruin]

Amount of iron required in a game with infinite resources...

[thorn bane]

i meant if there were no tedious space elevator parts the game wouldnt feel as rewarding
sending that space elevator is sooo satisfying BECAUSE it is hard

[errant sable]

even 50 versatile framework per minute takes a ridiculous amount

[fierce ruin]

The animation is too.

[frosty owl]

Why did you end up giving up, btw?

[thorn bane]

having a flat powergraph thats equal to the production

[fierce ruin]

I do feel like when they get closer to launch they will add in us being able to see Project Assembly like in the E3 trailer. Which may help some feel more rewarded as they can visually track their progress.

[frosty owl]

That's "what", not "why" xD

[thorn bane]

oh sorry
just too much work (again not time efficient)

[fierce ruin]

Kek, I need 420 Oscillators/min.
BLAZIN

[errant sable]

funny weed number haha

[frosty owl]

If it was solids only it wouldn't be too hard
But 100% fluid production is tricky, especially on the long run ^^ (load loss)

Also, 100% efficiency with manifolds can take forever to be achieved unless you prefill everything properly :P

Though, I find it kinda funny how my nuclear processing factory consumed about as much as your end-game factory... Nuclear is really a time sinker

[thorn bane]

oh btw i did some math some days ago and the 4th space elevator is roughly 60x the resources of the 3rd one

[thorn bane]

oh btw would this work in a manifold with the prog. splitters? or only balanced

[frosty owl]

At the top of my head, I'd say only balanced. The quartz-limestone ratio needs to be maintained

[fierce ruin]

If you make each line need 780 or less of both combined you can manifold it with smorts...

[frosty owl]

Sure, but the 7 splitters per 8 machines ratio was pretty cool xD (that's including the underfloor poggers, btw)

[fierce ruin]

Balanced sushi still LOOKS better, I will never shy away from that.

[frosty owl]

But about smorts...

[fierce ruin]

Yes?

When I get to T8 this run I am going to make a billboard that says "The Cake was a Lie, but the Pasta is Real" which a giant nuclear pasta image behind it.

[frosty owl]

The system takes in 90 quartz and 150 limestone every 4 assblers. That's a total of 240 every 4, meaning one can balance sushi split from a belt with items for 8 assemblers max (mk4 input, mk5 outputs). Chaining smorts, one can go up to 12 machines per belt easily instead

[fierce ruin]

🙂

Just put the overflow sinks at the end during spooling so the limestone can flow out while the qtz catches up.

[frosty owl]

4x3.25 to be exact

[thorn bane]

12 machines
looks at planner saying 74.2

[frosty owl]

I think you should really start thinking in setups xDDD
Eg: 74.2 = set of 8 machines, 9 rows and something, possibility of grouping them up in sets of 3 rows, change clock to have only 9 rows, or make 9 even rows and make the 10th to manage overflow and weird numbers....

Notice how both 8 and 9 are very convenient splits :P

[fierce ruin]

Given how "powerful" (<- debatable, hence quotes) mixed belts with chained smorts can be, I have started thinking about things in terms of setups, as you say.

Alters floor layout but also simplifies it.

[frosty owl]

Where I'd be like: I'll have 9 setups of 8, that's 9 belts, quickmaff

[thorn bane]

oooooor
you make 1 giant manifold

[frosty owl]

Wouldn't fit everything, you still need to math out the injection points

[thorn bane]

ye ofc

im actually doing 2 lines because i dont have enough space :(

[frosty owl]

That's a good point, my preference for setups might have stemmed from there too

[fierce ruin]

Having smorts work properly is such a nice thing...
But my AILs used per-run is going to increase like 1000x now.

[frosty owl]

Have I ever mentioned dhaving more SMORT/POGS than splitters in my nuclear setup...?

[fierce ruin]

Still haven't really found a use-case for poggers myself yet, but I am sure I will get there.

Supers outpost will be pumping 48/min so I will definitely have the resources for them 🙂

Although... if we think Quantums will require Supers I may need to increase that...

[frosty owl]

Imagine trying to feed a smort manifold for uranium fuel rods (<60/min total, ECR, oscillators, beacons) AND one for cells (~600/min, Sulphur, silica, quickwire) from the same belt. How to split the items for the 2 manifolds? :D

[fierce ruin]

Ah, that would do it.

[frosty owl]

A picture for reference. Rods in the front most row, cells begin, all the rest of the processing behind the camera on belts below the floor
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/840238842082623540/909631542438031450/Screenshot20211115-03253000000.png

[fierce ruin]

That is so, so spaced out.

[frosty owl]

... There uranium too on the belt though

[fierce ruin]

Also you should be able to reduce each of those to a single belt coming out of the floor, no?

[frosty owl]

Middle is for belting and between-floor transport (3 foundations wide, 2 walls high), and the spacing is to match the footprint of the processing behind xD

[fierce ruin]

When you say "walls" but I SEE NOTHING.

[frosty owl]

Yes, it's just that since I had all items on balanced belts too, I preferred to pog split the belts first so the system is actually balanced while still having overflow option

[frosty owl]

It's below where you see the darker foundations xD
To the sides the crawling space is just 4m high though, only the middle is 2 walls high

[fierce ruin]

So you're just going to leave this all sitting in the open... with no walls?

😬

[frosty owl]

Decoration is yet to be figured out, but I was thinking to leave the "front" open, yes.
The sides would have angles walls up to normal wall height for the rest of the factory (you can see the angled walls in pic), then I'll have pillars to fill up, add details and support the next floor (same as the one below), that will match height with the refineries behind

I can post a few screens of the Floorplan if interested. I could definetlyuse some opinions/suggestion/critiques if aviable 😆

[fierce ruin]

I will trade you feedback on that for feedback on my current internal debate. 🙂

[frosty owl]

Sounds good

[fierce ruin]

Given how I do outposts I have resolved to have a single exception to the "limited items" rule.
This would be a "basics" outpost and I'm trying to decide where to draw the line for it.

Currently the item in question is Stators.

[frosty owl]

Here can be seen the general Floorplan. The idea was for it to be as simple and easy to understand as possible (compared to the previous version), while also being balanced and getting rid of the balanced sushi's downsides (using it only where it never jams period). The 3 foundations wide middle belting space seems a bit wasteful... But might just be right once I get into pillars and vertical transport between floors...
Right side refineries for the first floor, left for the second, the rest of the processing converges towards the rods manifacturers
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/840238842082623540/909631944302673930/Screenshot20211115-03244100000.png

Front part https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/840238842082623540/909631749418528778/Screenshot20211115-03250100000.png

[frosty owl]

"Basic" as in "making all the basic items"?

[fierce ruin]

If I do everything from Hub0 to the end of T2, you get:

Plates, Rods, RIPs, Wire, Cable, QW, CSheets, Rotors, Modular Frames. (AILs allowed but not confirmed as they are available pre-Coal)

This makes sense and has a definitively drawn line at both T2 and pre-Steel.

However, do Stators warrant their own outpost? 😬

[frosty owl]

Btw, this the "main" central underfloor #screenshots message

Could even be a bus for all I know...

[fierce ruin]

I appreciate the color-coded refineries, lol.

[deft lichen]

you didn't include quartz crystals and silica

[fierce ruin]

And honestly I'd say take this setup and split it down the middle into 2 buildings.
You've got the space for it and seeing the conveyors leave one building to enter across to the other could look cool.

[frosty owl]

I think it can be worth it. They usually are required in pretty nice numbers and can be cumbersome to be included when they're the only thing adding iron/coal to the mix

[deft lichen]

AI limiters can be used for smart splitters before tier 3 is available

[fierce ruin]

Silica to storage will entirely be from aluminium byproduct, which works out nicely given we didn't have to store it prior to this patch.
Quartz Crystal will skimmed from the Oscillator outpost.

[deft lichen]

no window walls until aluminum?

[frosty owl]

But then I'd have radiation split in 2 too :(
As it is, the radioactivity goes only where there is nuclear pattern on the foundations. The design is also made to be easily scalable left/right and up, so splitting it in 2 would need quite the rethinking 🤔

[fierce ruin]

Just because I don't have a full 200/min outpost of something does not mean I don't have a single temp line of it somewhere making stuff. 🙂

[fierce ruin]

I thought this was the finished design, not "I'm adding more".

[frosty owl]

The empty left side for refineries will fit the refineries for the next floor (equal as the first less the refining)

[fierce ruin]

Also when I say split, this is what I mean.

[frosty owl]

1 refinery floor = 2 manifacturing floors in my mind

[fierce ruin]

Same exact size, just build walls where the lines are and as you go up you don't need the 3 founds in the middle per floor, just have the belts run across.

[frosty owl]

That would make for 2 very narrow buildings... While on one side I see what you mean (and agree on the belting between buldings looking cool), I feel that they would look weird being so tall and narrow

[fierce ruin]

How many floors are you planning to make?

[frosty owl]

I would still need some foundations for some balancing... The middle doesn't just connects, it does stuff, even a small bit of balancing

[frosty owl]

2 per refining floor

[fierce ruin]

How many floors are you planning to make? 🙂

2x = ?

[frosty owl]

Probably 1 refining one with plutonium processing on top

That would pretty much reach the cliffs next to the factory, the "top layer" for my rails anyway

[fierce ruin]

How many total refining floors are you making God damnit....

😂

[frosty owl]

Just one, vertically (300 uranium/min)
Two side by side, divided by the stations needed (2x7 cars)

Then I can copy-paste or remake the design up to 1800 uranium/min if needed

[fierce ruin]

So if you're having 1 floor, how does 2 of the other floor become "tall and narrow"

Then I can copy-paste or remake the design up to 1800 uranium/min if needed

THIS -- HOW MANY FLOORS IS THIS?!?!

That's what I have been asking the whole time, lmao.

[frosty owl]

A single refining floor, with 2 processing floors in front
Just extended to the sides, pretty much 😅

[fierce ruin]

But then going UP. when you copy paste.

So at MAX CAPACITY you're running 6 refining floors, 12 manufacturing floors.

If you're not going UP, then how do you have TALL, NARROW buildings?

[frosty owl]

Because it would become 2 side-by-side very long and narrow buldings, wide ~3 manifacturers, long from the manif to the refiners (that's very long) and tall (~10 walls)

[fierce ruin]

Hmmmm....

So you're not stacking these like towers?

I feel like that could add to the whole aesthetic...

[frosty owl]

Eh, I'd rather not... Even just for FPS

Also, plutonium on the top floor, remember? I feel like leaving that open, with the accelerators to show, would be cool ^^

[fierce ruin]

Only if you built a factory cart track through all the loops. 😛

[frosty owl]

How so, in particular? 🤔

[fierce ruin]

I like towers...

[frosty owl]

Fair xD

[fierce ruin]

And if you cut out that middle part every floor you'd have tons of those belts crossing between them. Which looks cool AF,

[frosty owl]

Btw, if you'd like more details about the stator thing, I'd appreciate if you could add an example, as the approach I suggested is quite use-dependant (as is your question after all xD)

[frosty owl]

Totally true... But the belting would become twice as complex too, no kidding :/

[tropic hawk]

Project Log, day 1: The Facility.

Admins just gave me greenlight to make the nuclear plant. I will design it so it has a modular input, Reactor Throttle, SCRAM, and other things that come along... May FICSIT take notice of my efforts...

[fierce ruin]

Twice as complex awesome.

[fierce ruin]

I agree they need their own outpost. So now it is a matter of solving how many per min I need total for motors, turbos, and ECRs.

So the line for "basics" ends at T2. Which I can fully get behind.

Rotors and Frames being the most complex "basic" parts tbh.

Though you can do both entirely from iron if you elect to.

[frosty owl]

I've yet to work on big-scale rotor factories...
What do you feel like you'll need them the most for?

[fierce ruin]

Rotors won't be big scale though because they are in the basics outpost?

[frosty owl]

Dunno why it autocorrected to rotors 🤦‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

Stators?

[frosty owl]

Yeah

[fierce ruin]

Regular motors will probably eat most of the output.
Need to figure out how many ECRs I will need.

ECRs, HSCs, and Nuclear are the only things I haven't planned out fully yet.

[frosty owl]

Well, I'm neck deep into the most uranium and aluminium efficient route for uranium and plutonium if you ever want to ask some merdy details xD

ECRs I've always done them in the nuclear processing up to now. By overflowing the steel due to weird pipes numbers

Well, this time it worked out more nicely as I'm overflowing just enough to feed the beams constructors for plutonium...

[fierce ruin]

Can drop me a DM with the nuke info?

[tropic hawk]

Heh. I am working on an insane project that would be interesting. Minmizing ALL raw resource inputs, as well as making all the inputs modular (as in you can send in iron ore, copper ore, caterium ingots, quickwire, and alclad casing, etc.) and making the full 252 reactors able to be throttled.

[frosty owl]

By making the reactors able to be throttled you mean in steps (like 6 or 12 or 24 at a time) or each individual reactor? And would that mean also disabling the production behind or just sinking the excess rods?

[tropic hawk]

Mainly able to control which reactors are running by changing production, as well as sinking everything if the SCRAM lever is flipped. (yes, I am going to need hundreds of sinks, I know.)

[frosty owl]

What I have atm just processes 150 uranium/min into rods using the uranium as quickly as possible to minimize the radiation. In order to do that I set up:
-A single train for ores, 7 cars. All ores and processed items are balanced so the final items reach the cells/rods manifacturers ASAP
-One drone for the uranium

[frosty owl]

What's the "SCRAM level"?

[tropic hawk]

lever*

it is a lever that basically cuts all rods from going to the reactors and connects the reactors to a tripped circuit that will automatically shut them all off

[frosty owl]

I'm not much into those kind of designs just because I got too hooked to the Hoverpack 😆
Being able to use it in uranium processing areas too is just

[thorn bane]

remember how i said i wasnt sure on silica/quickwire production?
turns out i didnt have enough concrete for encased plutonium cells so now everything is full stacks
fuck me

[obtuse tundra]

Is it more viable to use drones for long or short distance transport?

[jade minnow]

Long distance, low throughput

[obtuse tundra]

I feel like if you use them too long distance on quickly generated resources the throughput would have a bottleneck

[obtuse tundra]

So Turbo Motors are viable for example, and coal would not be?

[wind spade]

yeah like that

[jade minnow]

Yes. Because the cost for the batteries is quite high, you should only transport higher tier items via drone

[obtuse tundra]

Interesting, I mostly use trains but I transport things locally at my nexus with drone. For example my rifle cartridge line is mostly done by drone

[jade minnow]

I mean you can do everything by drone if you want 😛

I rather like the trains also for longer routes

[obtuse tundra]

I have complex and massive railways built up in the sky so I love adding to them

[hard vessel]

Is there a distance where trucks become more cost efficient than belts?

[obtuse tundra]

Any super long distances should be done with truck. Probably anything over 400-500m

[jade minnow]

Belts transport your items for free. Trucks use fuel. So a belt will always be more cost efficient (only one-time cost while building)

[hard vessel]

Deciding how much of my refining I want to be on location vs brought over to the main factory.

[jade minnow]

But if you have massive belt highways say goodbye to your FPS

[hard vessel]

True. Need some mods to update so I can get my favorite covered belt mod back.

[obtuse tundra]

I would say that refining items on location is always better. Outposts > Nearposts

[wind spade]

I'm very interested in your opinion on this:

What long-range transport method would be your choice? Long range = distances over 1-1.5km. You can choose multiple

1️⃣ Belts
2️⃣ Trucks
3️⃣ Trains
4️⃣ Drones
5️⃣ I don't do long range transportation
6️⃣ Modded (teleportation, etc.)

[thorn bane]

i feel like trains are just as bad for fps

[fringe pawn]

Multiple selections allowed?

[wind spade]

You can choose multiple
😛

[fierce ruin]

Mods... 😭

[fringe pawn]

First I should take a good look at SCIM and see what I'm doing now that is over 1km

[fierce ruin]

Also I have the plan for my "Basics" outpost 🙂

[wind spade]

fixed 😛

[obtuse tundra]

Soon teleportation wont need to be added with mods

[fierce ruin]

Why?

[obtuse tundra]

Superposition oscillators will be one of the next parts added to the game

[fierce ruin]

Given the drones auto-kill you if you try to ride them because the devs think flying from point to point is too powerful... you think they are adding teleportation?

[wind spade]

I don't think devs plan to add complete teleportation

[obtuse tundra]

Yes. Let me go find it and I'll screenshot it

[wind spade]

that would completely invalidate any other mode of transport

[ashen girder]

He's looking in the "unreleased content that was removed from the game and we're not supposed to talk about" file. 😂

[obtuse tundra]

No i'm not, one sec

[ashen girder]

Bet me you aren't. 😂😂

[noble timber]

Probably. I haven’t really seen much on the maths with trucks. What is certain is that trains are better than belts at over 300metres

[fierce ruin]

Eh.

[thorn bane]

just keep in mind people that go for max efficiency wont use trains since they cost power

[noble timber]

Trains are way more efficient than belts

[thorn bane]

not power efficient

[fierce ruin]

"Often Used In" does not mean "Player Will Get To"

[ashen girder]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Old_unreleased_content#Remote_Storage

[obtuse tundra]

see above image

[noble timber]

They are cheaper over long distances so you could argue that the power taken to produce the massive cost of belts in more than a train will consume

[fierce ruin]

For all you know Supers are a story-related item that helps you teleport OFF PLANET to end the game.

[obtuse tundra]

While this is true this drop pod I'm looking at was added in U5

It wasn't there beforehand

[ashen girder]

Superposition oscillators aren't new.

[thorn bane]

but you only need the power for the belt once after that its free

[fierce ruin]

Again, given drones auto-kill you for attempting to FLY because the devs don't even want you to FLY...

You can expect teleportation all you want but you are ignoring a massive billboard if you choose to do so.

[fringe pawn]

Sort of. You'd still need to make it to the point of unlocking it, so for quite a while you'd still perhaps be using trucks and other things. If it has a high fuel cost (power, SAM, uranium, and/or nitrogen?), that could make its use cost prohibitive enough that it couldn't be a full replacement. Or maybe with enough effort it could be a full replacement for all other transport, but I feel like that's similar to the issue we have now with drones.

[obtuse tundra]

If devs actually didn't want you to fly they would have phased out hyper tube cannons

[noble timber]

That power is substantially more though. And the longer your train line the more efficient it is with energy consumption

[fierce ruin]

Oh dearest Jesus...

[wind spade]

sure but that doesn't tell us anything.

First, they may change the text in the future
Second, there's no mention of what teleportation are we talking about. Maybe it's just player teleportation? Maybe it's very limited and can't do big items or big amounts of them?

Also devs mentioned several times that item/player teleportation is something they are very careful with, as it's very OP mode of transport

[fierce ruin]

Go watch the video on drones. They say the exact words of "we felt flying was too powerful"....

[noble timber]

I’m not having another train argument today though 😂

[wind spade]

well yeah, but you got the point

[ashen girder]

It's literally the same one.

[obtuse tundra]

It would simply have to be super costly to do it

[fierce ruin]

How do you define cost in a game with INFINITE RESOURCES?

[wind spade]

cost in resource/min

or in power, which translates into resources/min

[fringe pawn]

Teleportation could provide a use case for plutonium power.

[fierce ruin]

If you go by this metric it simplifies in terms of balance.
The cost will either be worth it -- which make teleporting invalidate all other modes of travel.
Or it will not -- which makes it useless.

[obtuse tundra]

Well only at a certain point do you have effectively infinite. On top of having to reach that point it could cost tons of power and resources to create, and it would be a building so you'd still have to collect those parts

[wind spade]

initial build cost is pretty much irrelevant (and only locks content behind tiers). upkeep cost (cost per minute) is what defines how costly a thing is (since map resources are limited)

[fierce ruin]

Yes, which makes the technology binary in nature.

[fringe pawn]

Holy crap, I've been greatly underestimating distances this whole time

[wind spade]

I agree to this. I was just replying to your "how do you define cost" 🙂

[fierce ruin]

👍

[thorn bane]

ye my main bus is like longer than 1-1.5km idk about the poll xD

[obtuse tundra]

I don't actually see how it would invalidate other forms of transport. Trains and other vehicles are a means of transporting items. Hypertubing transports you personally. Teleportation would be a long distance form of personal travel. It would be balanced by requiring more upkeep the longer the distance between two gates

[fierce ruin]

Given the entire logistical system is based on throughput in terms of items per minute with a component of travel time:
Instantaneous transport of any item or person is automatically better than all other methods.
Meaning it comes down to cost.
If cost = worth, Better
If cost = not worth, Useless

[obtuse tundra]

And again, it would just be a faster version of hypertube cannons which the Devs don't support removing.

[frosty owl]

I could see teleportation having a place as a transport "higher tier than drones" for even alle throughouts, given an according resource usage (probably SAM)

[fierce ruin]

See above.

[frosty owl]

Especially after Particle Accelerators items pick up

[wind spade]

the problem is that "time to transport from X to Y" is usually irrelevant, what is relevant is throughput.

[fierce ruin]

Which then also makes adding the technology useless from that perspective.

It would be point-to-point transport without respect to terrain -- drones already do this.

[wind spade]

if something takes 20 minutes to transport but can do 100000/min, you just wait 20 minutes and then it's no longer relevant

[frosty owl]

The cost can be relative to what you need to transport
Is it worth expanding batteries to transport 100/min coal? Probably not.
But is it worth it for 40 turbomotors+20 nuclear pasta+40ADSs... the story is different

[obtuse tundra]

Your argument is super black and white. It would only transport people. So throughput is nonexistent unless you personally plan on transporting items yourself. You keep alluding to drones and other vehicles but we're talking PERSONAL transport

[fierce ruin]

Which then rolls back to transporting the player.
Which routes back to my initial assessment regarding drones auto-killing you because they don't want you to fly.

[patent briar]

I would be fine with teleportation if it had an enormous, like really enormous, power cost each time you teleport

[obtuse tundra]

And then my argument of hypertube cannons already being a thing which trumps yours

[patent briar]

Like you need to hook up an entire field of battery banks holding power, and it takes awhile to charge up enough power to handle 1 teleportation

[fierce ruin]

It really doesn't though...

But again, if you choose to expect them, have at it.

[obtuse tundra]

Explain how? I can travel the entire map quickly with hypertube cannons and go wherever I want in no time at all

[wind spade]

hypertube cannons weren't added though. They were a glitch that they kept because they don't want to take fun away from the community (see also - cheatcrete, ...)

[fringe pawn]

Okay, I replied 1 and 5 to the poll. I only have a couple ore highways using belts that get to right around the 1 km mark. These would be a PITA to do with trucks and trains because of elevation changes and terrain. I believed belts were my easiest option at the time, and I still believe that at a glance, but I'd be happy to allow others to look and tell me what they would have done.

[patent briar]

Teleportation would only thus be feasible if you have a massive turbofuel or uranium array setup and running with enormous extra power supply, and chances are youd still be limited to 1 teleportation maybe every 10-15 minutes while waiting for it to recharge.

That I would consider balanced and fine enough

[obtuse tundra]

@wind spade Agreed, but they still kept it and that's the point

[ashen girder]

1 somersloop per teleport at the start, 1 mercer sphere at the receiving end.

[obtuse tundra]

I can absolutely agree to this

[wind spade]

they are trying to keep the game balanced and fun. Some things are just in the game even though they are OP, just because they don't want the backlash of the community if they've removed it (no matter how OP it is)

[ashen girder]

Game requires 149 each to actually beat.

[obtuse tundra]

That would be interesting but that would only allow a finite number of teleportations

[patent briar]

Id be fine with yeah, perhaps teleportation requiring alien tech and thus you are limited to only building maybe, lets say 4 teleportation points max

[patent briar]

But Im hesitant to ask for that, because then you can run into "I accidently deleted my stuff 2 weeks ago when I started the game, so now I cant build any teleportation because I didnt know it was important"

[fierce ruin]

Still sad he isn't in the new movie 😦

[fringe pawn]

I think limiting teleportation buildings to the number of Somersloops would be kinda cool.

[obtuse tundra]

I think it being finite would defeat the overall point though

[fierce ruin]

Somerpositionslooperators.

[ashen girder]

I'm sold.

Each one requires at least 2 plutonium nuclear reactors at full OC to keep running.

[obtuse tundra]

That would be fine lol

[fierce ruin]

In keeping with them being "the same as hypercannons" there is a 40% chance they kill you instantly when you try to use them.

[ashen girder]

60% when you build them.

Tearing a hole in reality tends to be fraught with danger.

[fierce ruin]

69%

Also @ashen girder

Outpost Zero: Basics

Plates - 200/m
Rods - 200/m
Wire - 600/m

400 Wire to Cable for 200/m
CSheets - 200/m
Frames - 49.5/m
AILs - 105/m
QW - 180/m

Area limitations: 3600 Fe, 1200 Cu, 780 Ct
Build cost: 2624.605 Fe, 1190 Cu, 750 Ct

🙂

My project for the afternoon.

[ashen girder]

How fun!

[fierce ruin]

I know 😭 it is the only exception to my limited items per outpost rule.

But it is capped at T2. I believe that is fair.

Starting with Steel everything has to be specialized.

Which THAT one is going to cost me 1420 Coal/Iron per min... 😭

Ok it is actually ridiculous how every lategame item goes cleanly in 45.

Turbo Motors - all recipes
FMFs - all recipes
RCUs - all recipes
Supers - all recipes

Cooling systems - all recipes

HSCs - all recipes

It's probably a shorter list of items in the game that DON'T go into 45.

[fringe pawn]

Here's a real transport scenario that I believe I've seen other people encounter. Pulling these bauxite nodes to the border of the Islands and Dune Desert for processing. I used belts. What did others do, or what would you do?

[ashen girder]

They ran out of ideas, okay? 😂

[ashen girder]

Belts or drones are your best bet here. I belt them down to the beach and have a train go from there.

[fierce ruin]

I process those on-site?

[ashen girder]

Once I get drone infra up I'll probably switch.

[ashen girder]

Up on top of the plateau? How do you get your finished goods down then?

[fierce ruin]

Baux comes down.

Miner chained to like 6 max-height conveyor lifts 😂

[ashen girder]

So your answer to his question is "belts". 😛

[fierce ruin]

Yeah but they don't go as far as what he's pulling them.

[ashen girder]

Yeah, same.

[sullen cloud]

With my large existing train network, trains for sure

[fringe pawn]

I screwed up the screenshot, but the far right is a pure node, passing by a normal node in the middle. Then there are 2 more pure nodes up on the cliffs overlooking the Islands.

[fierce ruin]

We need a "yeeter" that you have to pair with a U-Jelly for strictly down-vertical transportation of items.

[thorn bane]

belt
imo the question should be for actual long range stuff like 4+ km and for multiple belts not just 1

[ashen girder]

A "chuckit" and a "fuckitbucket".

[fierce ruin]

Y33T-3R

[fringe pawn]

You have trains at those miners already?

[fierce ruin]

Could have it going up to, but also has to be paired with jelly.
1 conveyor output.

So you can still do lifts, but if you want you can provide power to this and it takes more space but it LOOKS awesome and you don't have to chain lifts as much as just angle these properly.

😂 Would be so much fun to watch, lol

And would be the second instance of things being moved in stacks, because it would launch/catch one stack at a time.
Limited internal inventory though and you are still rate-limited by the single-belt output.

[ashen girder]

To be fair, chaining lift holes makes building conveyor towers so much nicer now.

[fierce ruin]

Indeed.

[ashen girder]

I need to replace my aluminum belts with a proper tower.

I need to do a lot of things. 😂

This game low-key becomes kind of a chore after awhile.

[fierce ruin]

I may make a QA post about this Yeeter idea....

[ashen girder]

Doo eet.

We could have an Assembler-packager that produces one stack in a box then dumps it out as a physics object.

THen it just interacts with bouncy ramps/whatever per usual.

Then a vacuumer that sucks it in on the other end.

I.... I really want rube goldberg factories now.

[fierce ruin]

Because it's another belt alternative, would shine in vertical instances but could technically be chained horizontally if you wanted.

[fierce ruin]

This will most likely never happen.

[ashen girder]

I KNOW. A BOY CAN DREAM, OKAY.

[fierce ruin]

Hmmm... balancing them is power, space, and they are paired so you can't have them shooting to multiple different drop points...

You could chain them by just connecting another to the output of the first, but given they shoot only complete stacks that wouldn't be the most effective throughput at all.

[wintry aurora]

Is there a place that lists the power consumption of each specific building type? I'm trying to wonder whether 8 assemblers would be less power than x numbers of constructors.

[fierce ruin]

Wiki.

Assembler is 15 MW, Constructor is 4 MW.

[ashen girder]

The wiki also has per-item power costs for all the alternate recipes if you want to skip doing some math.

[fierce ruin]

30 Constructors = 8 Assemblers

[ashen girder]

They do presume a certain precursor chain, though, so you might still want to do your own math.

[wintry aurora]

Hm, yea, ok.

I just wanted to look in general.

[ashen girder]

(They specifically assume every input is produced with the lowest WP cost, for the record. Which isn't always, or even usually, the best pick for your needs.)

[fierce ruin]

I just gave you the comparison 🙂

Sinking Copper Powder is always the best pick for my needs.

[ashen girder]

Oh Copper Powder.

You can tell someone was like "You can basically make copper completely irrelevant at this point. How can we force people to use it?"

"Oh, I know!" 😂

[fierce ruin]

After you get your golden cup it is good only for sinkage.

🙂

[ashen girder]

Is it even good for that?

[fierce ruin]

Yes. Because I feed on pain.

[sullen cloud]

I have a railway network throughout the map, building a new station close to the miners would be done in a few minutes.

[thorn bane]

still need more data but afaik pasta is pretty good sink wise until you hit map resource limits

[ashen girder]

That's.. low-key kinda my point. Why would you just sink the copper powder? 😂

Especially since you can use copper to seriously bulk up your factory for better point-producing stuff.

(Yay alloy ingots.)

[fierce ruin]

The same reason I sink leaves. 🙃

Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with.
Some men just want to watch the lizard doggos burn in a pile of ashes soaked in their own blood.

[errant sable]

sink color guns

[fierce ruin]

Oof. Rest in Peace.

[errant sable]

oh lmao i keep forgetting they're getting removed in u5

[fierce ruin]

If we could automate rifles and rebar guns I 100% would make an arms factory.

[ashen girder]

WTB alt for carts that takes copper powder.

[fierce ruin]

Carts?

[ashen girder]

Cartridges.

Pewpew ammos.

[fierce ruin]

I was thinking factory carts, hence the confusion.

[ashen girder]

I'd be okay with being able to mass produce factory carts with copper powder.

[fierce ruin]

Lol

[ashen girder]

Makes just as much sense. 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

Idk why we can't automate rifles and rebar guns 😥

[ashen girder]

Plutonium waste, copper powder, nitric acid and sulfuric acid maybe.

[fierce ruin]

Like we can automate MINERS, but not guns?

[ashen girder]

Drones aren't pewpew drones though. 😦

They only added that with drones.

[fierce ruin]

I remember that recipe being in before drones...

But I could be wrong.

Drones just gave it somewhat of a function.

[fierce ruin]

I am wrong. 😂

[ashen girder]

My two favorite words: "I" and " 😂 "

[fierce ruin]

I will just have to make like 200 rifles by hand and loop them on a conveyor with some wall trickery to make it look like they are automated.

[ashen girder]

Put a sink inside and sink the mats for making the rifles.

So it looks like it's being fed and producing.

[fierce ruin]

I could simulate automated parachutes too!!!!

[ashen girder]

Doo eet!

[fierce ruin]

Because we SHOULD be able to automate those....

[ashen girder]

..you can't? 😦

[fierce ruin]

No. We get fucking polyester automated as fuck fabric but can't fucking automate the parachutes... FUCK

[ashen girder]

You can't. 😦

[lament wraith]

Help. I need to split 400 into 270/130 and then 9x30/10x13

we can go up to 480 if that helps in any way

[ashen girder]

I would use a splitter.

Maybe even 2.

[lament wraith]

very helpful

[ashen girder]

Honest, though. 🙂

Why do you need to split 400 into 270/130 instead of just.. not doing that and letting it sort itself out?

[lament wraith]

cause efficiency

[ashen girder]

There's no net change in efficiency.

[lament wraith]

but straight power consumption lines make the serotonin go burrrr

[ashen girder]

Godspeed to you then. 🙂

Might even want 3 splitters for that.

[wild radish]

Just use a smart splitter to send everything to a mk3(270) belt then take the overflow(130)

[dark summit]

Only need one splitter now

[fierce ruin]

@lament wraith split evenly then split one half again. Merge the first half with one of the second quarters but make the output a mk3 belt to force it to be 270.

[ashen girder]

(Should we tell them that splitters hate splitting onto Mk3 belts and actually pushing 270 exactly?)

[fierce ruin]

Better safe than sorry here.

[lament wraith]

Y’all are too clever

[narrow forum]

yeah but mk2 can only do 120

[frosty owl]

Agreed though, his point was that you can get the flat power draw even without load balancing the line by:
Split and let overflow sort itself out (longest method before 100% efficiency)
Smart split and send the overflow towards one of the lines (quicker than the previous one)
Load balance the line (takes a few splitters/mergers but is the fastest)

[frosty owl]

You might wanna tell me 🤔
What's that about?

[ashen girder]

Mk3 belts are stupid, that's what. 😂

They've always been the ones messing up my splitter math.

If you split a Mk5 line onto a Mk3, Mk4 and Mk5 output, the Mk3 somehow gets more than it's should.

[fierce ruin]

They were invented to fuck with the math, so that sounds like they are working as intended.

[frosty owl]

I rember that, but wasn't that am issue with any belt kind, when you use different MKs for the outputs?

Or does it behave like than only when MK3 are involved (and one is still using different mks for outputs)?

[ashen girder]

Not any kind, no. Mk3s seemed to be the most guilty party. Some combinations worked flawlessly.

Like Mk4s onto a Mk1/4/1 split exactly like I expected it to, every time.

[frosty owl]

The most guilty, huh...?

[frosty owl]

What about mk4 in 3-4-3?

[ashen girder]

I dunno. I haven't tried that one. 😂

[frosty owl]

I'm wondering if having 2 outputs be the same can even things out at least between the 2 mk3... I tend to rely a lot on balancing, here and there, so I'm kinda interested...

[ashen girder]

The test I run is easy: plop down a splitter, and 4 containers around it. Connect a belt, dump a stack of concrete or screws into the input container, then see what the ratios are of the outputs.

Then do the math to figure out what you actually expect to see.

[wind spade]

then check splitters if they kept some items in their buffer

[frosty owl]

Sure, but that's a lot more effort than asking you about it :P

[ashen girder]

Yeah, well. I can't do much right now! If you want the answer you're gonna hafta get it yerself.

[frosty owl]

We're talking normal splitters

[ashen girder]

Smart splitters are even worse.

They like to flip shit around too. 😂

[frosty owl]

I might do some testing if I happen in a situation where I need to clear up such a doubt
Recently, I don't think I got in such a situation

[ashen girder]

If you do, there's that thread for splitter stuff.

[frosty owl]

Wdym?

[ashen girder]

Best way I can describe it is they'll drag an item a few ticks occasionally.

[wind spade]

you never know 🤷‍♂️

[ashen girder]

I think it's related to the overflow stuff.

But basically I was sending down 2 quickwire and 5+ wire, and in certain configurations, it'd wind up sending the 2nd quickwire down the line after 2, 3, 4 wire.

[frosty owl]

Ah yeah, overflow does that

[ashen girder]

Yeah, it's weird and messy and strange.

[frosty owl]

Overflow is not about maintaining ratios, it's just to handle dividing item lanes imo

[ashen girder]

Still a weird and inconsistent behavior. 😛

[frosty owl]

Which is part of why many get angry at mixed belts because "they don't work as they should" imo xD

[ashen girder]

Yup.

[frosty owl]

It's consistent for what matters: if you need to separate items from a belt, it'll make sure that (eg) A goes left and B goes right, sending in the middle any that don't fit
What more can one expect of them that causes confusion?

[ashen girder]

That it keeps the "any that don't fit" in order. 😉

[frosty owl]

In order how, like in the same order on the belt as when they came?

Why is that relevant?

[ashen girder]

...?

That seems like a reasonable expectation to me.

If ABCABC comes in, and I have C come off, I would expect the output to be AB-AB-..

Not AB-BA-.

[frosty owl]

I fail to see how that can be an issue outside of my balanced sushi stuff, but that's what "any undefined" is for

Or.. Well... Programmable splitters too

Following your example: your belt has 3 items on it, you need to send 1 to another lane. Then why would you even consider setting the other lanes to "overflow", risking having item C in lines that should only have A and B?

[ashen girder]

I don't see why that matters?

[frosty owl]

Though, I do agree that the order of the items changing might be confusing, if the end result isn't acceptable to you, you're just using the wrong setting for the situation

In this case, overflow where you should set "send C to right, any undefined elsewhere" instead

[ashen girder]

I think you forgot what channel we're in. 😛

I couldn't care less about the end result there. I just abuse smart splitters and go on about my life.

[frosty owl]

I guess weird results aren't a surprise in that case

[ashen girder]

Not at all, but it's something to be aware of if you're trying to be precise with them.

I just... don't..

[frosty owl]

That's asking for precise stuff though

[ashen girder]

#math-and-meta message

I was just.. answering your question. 😂

I don't care that they flip shit around.

I don't ever put myself in situations where that matters even a little bit.

[frosty owl]

Fair enough

[fierce ruin]

go to #screenshots and vote for which alt recipe i should use please

Solid Steel. Not even a question.

[wind spade]

all three are decent if you make use of them

[fierce ruin]

which one?

Whatever you need

[fringe pawn]

3 is pointless. I like 1 slightly more than 2.

[fierce ruin]

Might never use any of them. Just pick something you think you want to use.

[wind spade]

3 is useful imo

2 unlocks turbofuel

1 is also useful

(Obv all situational just like all recipes)

[fierce ruin]

i like the first one. (im just put all my coke into awesome sink) but what do yall think?

[fringe pawn]

If you think you'll use it, definitely 1. Nothing special about the others.

[fierce ruin]

i did go for 1. i mean 100 steel a minute is insane

[hoary igloo]

I figured this out while writing it, but in case someone else wants a stab at it:

Consider the following pipe layout:

  a   b   c
  |   |   |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|   |   |   |
1   2   3   4

Assume mk2 pipes, letters are outputs (max 600/s) and 1-4 are inputs (max 400/s). Inputs may or may not be actually turned on, and outputs may or not actually be needed.

Is there any combination of inputs and outputs that would prevent maximum throughput?

(Answer: ||If inputs 1&2 are the only ones producing and outputs B&C are the only ones requesting, maximum throughput is not possible, likewise for 2&3 vs A&B. Avoiding this is fairly trivial though, with at least two possible simple solutions.||)

[fierce ruin]

just got steel screws and you have got to be kidding me

260 screws a minute

FOR 5 STEEL BEAMS A MINUTE???????

i can make a whole ass 10 modular frames a minute factory with one constructer WTF

[patent briar]

So after seeing the post about the "powered splitter" I have been sitting thinking about what possibilities there are for abusing this, cause it seems like it has a lot of potential

Basically, you can turn conveyor belts on and off with power with a clever trick involving packagers

[hoary igloo]

@patent briar Link?

[patent briar]

You just make a Packager <-> Unpackager loop, and you feed your "real" belt you want to turn off and on through a merger to share a belt with the bottled liquid, and then smart splitter it back off

You can then disable/enable to belt by turning the Unpackager off and on

[hoary igloo]

huh.

[patent briar]

If its off, the bottle pile up and block the merger, nothing can get through

If you turn it on though, items can pass through

You have to sacrifice a small bit of max bandwidth of your belts for some bottles but, you can underclock the packagers a fair bit so you only lose a couple items/minute, which is barely anything on Mk5 belts

You can basically scale between two things:

Clocking the packagers down means they take up less of the belt bandwidth, so more "real" items/min can flow through.

However, this also lowers the response speed of the system so to say, it will keep letting items through for a little bit longer when you kill power

The next level up is, if you put an overflow splitter before all this, you now have a splitter you can flip flop between output A and output B by flipping a switch

[frosty owl]

(Sorry if I come back to this just now, I just remembered xD)
I tried to colore code each machine to its production (eg: AI limiters black and dark green, quickwire yellow and black, iron rods black and "ingot gray"...)
Dunno how well that works in the final result 😅 😆
I haven't painted the MFs yet

[fierce ruin]

If you're out painting MFs you're likely to get punched.

[patent briar]

This is the jist of it

I tried it out and it works pretty well.

The question is..

How can we abuse this or leverage it...?

[jade minnow]

That is very confusing. You have 2 lines arriving at one coal gen but it has only one input. You need to connect them before.

[wanton sedge]

I know it's pretty basic for a lot of players here but I saw some people asking questions about water/coal generators. This is a perfectly efficient setup for those just starting out. Works 100% efficient for 120 coal, very easy to replicate.

fixed it arnihilator, sorry about that

[patent briar]

I just underclock my water to 75%, 1 water pump = 2 coal generators, easy peasy

[wanton sedge]

guess that's probably easier lol

probably looks way neater too

[patent briar]

Yeah, since you can easily stack 1 generator on top of another, I go for a vertical setup, this is my power plant atm:

Bottom layer like so, 16 water extractors all underclocked to 75%, each one of them pipes straight up two 2 generators directly above them

[wanton sedge]

I guess the other one was more for beginers, just doing something basic and horizontal

[fierce ruin]

which one?

[fringe pawn]

3? None are exciting, and I would argue 1 is pretty bad. Because of how common limestone is, I'd generally rather just use more limestone.

[fierce ruin]

fair enough

[topaz hedge]

HMF factory is done.. now to turn these all into FMF

best FMF recipe lol

[fierce ruin]

that pains me to look at

just got done with my hmf factory and it was pain

hurts me to see them going into a sink

[topaz hedge]

You should do that with all your factories. it's a good "load test" to make sure you didn't miss anything before feeding them into the next production line.

at the end of the chain though.. all of my factories end in a sink lol

[fierce ruin]

lol

[topaz hedge]

for the amount of effort to make a hmf.. they really arn't worth a lot of points :/

[fringe pawn]

It's all about silicon circuit boards for sink points, then everything else is an afterthought until you're sinking stuff like ADS and rockets.

[topaz hedge]

everything made with them is worth loads, but the frames themselves are worthless.

[dusk juniper]

Are there any "getting started" or other noob friendly resources for maximizing efficiency? Not sure if I'm asking in the right place. Basically I'm just getting started in tier 2, and want to automate rotor/reinforced plate production but it seems that this is highly inefficient given my current buildings at my disposal

[fringe pawn]

Are you looking for hard drives to obtain alternate recipes?

[topaz hedge]

at tier 2. there's not much you can do.

[dusk juniper]

Yes, so far I've gotten alternate recipes for Screws and Reinforced plates, but the plate recipe is for more plates so that's not too helpful. The screw alternate (5x ingot) is clutch though, taking out the rod middleman

[topaz hedge]

You've got the really nice one to have (casted screws) go forth and screw things together and milestone up.

[dusk juniper]

Screw all the things.

I wonder if with 2 normal iron nodes I can hack 4 smelters into some blob of a factory for the two components

[surreal dune]

is there an easy way for the production planner to tell me how many Nuclear Power Plants I can build if i mine all 3 Uranium Nodes at 250%?

[topaz hedge]

tiers 5-6 are when you'll really start to want to look at efficiency, and that's when you'll normally have enough alts, and tools to ramp up production and do it efficient.

[fierce ruin]

only 3 uranium nodes in whole map? jesus

[dusk juniper]

Gotcha, what would your advice be in the meanwhile? Just make the factories without touching overclock, and fill in gaps with manual crafts?

[ashen girder]

Replied to the wrong thing.

[surreal dune]

there's 4, but 4th is impure

[topaz hedge]

There's 4 nodes. and I don't remember exactly. but if you're not burning plutonium, you can power 252 NPP's

[topaz hedge]

just build, factories, automate everything you can. learn the game xd

and have fun

[surreal dune]

252 include the impure node?

[topaz hedge]

yes, 72 each for normal nodes, 36 for impure with infused cell + fuel unit.

[topaz hedge]

use https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/ to see the production line.

[surreal dune]

handy tool. so that's the most encased uranium I can make corret? (rushed through the tiers and didn't min/max anything so now i gotta do all that good stuff - and learn the tools along the way lol)

[frosty owl]

Yes 👍

[fierce ruin]

If you want Plutonium you just have to manually add the amount of uranium waste as an available item.

[pulsar idol]

unless u want to waste plutonium

i mean sink

[feral nova]

Worth noting you'll end up with plutonium waste which can't be sinked. So plan out a nuclear waste storage area far away from anywhere important.

[fierce ruin]

Sinked 😬

Also it's useful to see your plut conversion line whether you plan to burn it or sink the rods.
So either way 🤷‍♂️