#math-and-meta

1 messages · Page 565 of 1

patent briar
#

So then yes, you shot yourself in the foot

#

483.5/5 = 96.7, so just underclock all 5 machines to ~96%

wind spade
#

no, I just simplified everything and built it faster than just googling how to balance

patent briar
#

There, then a 5 way splitter and done

wind spade
#

3.5% missing

patent briar
#

You cant underclock to exactly 83.5% can you? It rounds to the %

wind spade
#

it rounds to 4 decimal places

patent briar
#

Oh. Can you type it in or something?

wind spade
#

yes

patent briar
#

Okay then underclock them to the actual number, 96.7%

wind spade
#

you still had to pop out calculator and do the math 🤷‍♂️

patent briar
#

No, I did that in my head

wind spade
#

with these simple numbers, sure

#

I already have half of the build by the time you calculate yours

#

and time is the rarest resource we have

patent briar
#

Somehow I doubt in like, 2 seconds, you have built half your factory lol

wind spade
#

you can't build 5 machines in 2 seconds?

#

(not to mention that with harder numbers it will definitely take longer than two seconds)

patent briar
#

5 machines, the foundation, the wiring, the belts, and the splitters take a lot more than 2 seconds....

wind spade
#

calculating clock speed, setting it and also coming up with a balancer isn't instant either

patent briar
#

I still stand by my position that manifolds are inefficient and have a bunch of issues and basically are the "I dont wanna do grade 4 math" solution to builds. You can do it, you arent a bad person for doing it, but it doesnt change the fact it has several flaws

wind spade
#

it has way more advantages tho 🤷‍♂️

#

and they have the same efficiency as balancers, 100%. They don't lose any items and they can work at the same speed

patent briar
#

The only advantage is it uses slightly less resources and are slightly faster to make. They take up almost the same amount of space. If you simply plan ahead and keep extensibility in mind proper balancers arent much harder to make, nor do they take up much more room

patent briar
#

Which may or may not be a big deal depending on what your items are you had to waste

wind spade
#

which is super useful for things like power where buffers can be a difference between blackout and last-minute save

patent briar
#

If your balancer has stopped then you are now very inefficient. The factory must grow

wind spade
#

or you accidentally dismantled something or forgot to place a power pole or made a mistake because you're a human

#

you also can't easily work with different input amounts with balancers (e.g. different recipes or different clock speeds)

patent briar
#

Also you still should be using buffers, but properly, for balancers, for all types of items, to add that redundancy

wind spade
#

the "buffers" in manifolds are more than enough

patent briar
#

Except instead of relying on a logarithmic buffer that exponentially loses efficiency each second that goes by as it burns, a balancer would consume your buffer at a static linear rate

wind spade
#

which doesn't alert you about the issue until the buffer is empty, while lower production is noticeable and leads to investigation

patent briar
#

Its not a very good buffer if it doesnt do its job then. You are using your "buffer" now instead as a "thrown exception" which isnt the same at all

wind spade
#

I'm not building manifolds for buffers though

patent briar
#

You are using the manifold as the buffer, specifically n-1 of the consumers as buffers

wind spade
#

n-2

patent briar
#

Im not sure why you think its n-2? As far as I can tell its n-1

wind spade
#

last splitter splits 50/50 to two machines consuming at full speed

#

if one would be filling, so would be the other one

patent briar
#

Ah right thats true

wind spade
#

(assuming both have the same speed)

#

I'm building them for simplicity, extendability and ability to work with different clock speeds. Those three already outweight ALL the advantages you've mentioned for balancers (for me).

patent briar
#

Sure. I dont find any of those three to be lacking on balancers however so I dont see them as advantages one possesses over the other at all

wind spade
#

and the cost of losing 30% efficiency for first 10 minutes (while I'm building other stuff anyway so I don't need it to produce at full efficiency before I finish) is super low and very much acceptable

wind spade
#

with manifold you just run a belt and you're done

patent briar
wind spade
#

laughs in 5.625/min stitched plates, pretty much third item you automate from start of the game

frosty owl
#

Which converts to 45/min every 8 stitched plates assemblers. Or 90/min for 16, which is an even nicer number to deal with

#

Funny... I never noticed how the 1:2 ratio between plates and wire to make stitched plates make them very easy to sushi jace_smile

kind wigeon
#

<3 stitched plates

#

screws can go die in a ditch idc

#

hate em

frosty owl
#

Steel screws ftw simon_smile

kind wigeon
#

okay steel screws are actually pretty good but that's an exception

fierce ruin
#

Max Screws Project. 😏

#

Bolted Frames Sushi Challenge.
🙂

fringe pawn
#

Maybe a good max screw challenge would be most screws used in finished products?

fierce ruin
#

Max = Max.
All resources to make ALL screws. 🙂

#

1.7 million ish ppm or RIOT.

frosty owl
#

I think the manifold-balancing preferences can be boiled down to just preference in building/how one likes his systems to work. Wether one wants a system that processes inputs asap, or that is easy to set up/expand, or that it's fool proof, or that it can be easily turned on/off, or that it reaches max efficiency asap... How "efficient" a system is (from one's viewpoint), is often biased by such preferences, so it's hard to compare the two methods (manif. or bal.) even in the same scenario, as the whole production chain/logistics behind the example would be quite different if one were to follow one method over the other
Eg: Where one can "just manifold without giving a second thought" after making sure "production >= inputs", another can "just split without giving a second thought" after he decided for a nice setup and related ratios. Both approaches can end up with a very similar volume of beltwork, but rely on very different approaches from the get-go

frosty owl
frosty owl
fierce ruin
fierce ruin
frosty owl
fierce ruin
#

See, now I am just envisioning that with the old splitter/merger models.

#

And the old manufacturer.

frosty owl
#

Boomer snuttstach_smile

fierce ruin
#

Old millennial, but close enough.

#

My parents are boomers though 😂

surreal dune
#

i have 3 water extractors all @ 100%, 8 Coal Generators.
each pipe is only using 6.7 of 20m of head lift so i've got plenty there

#

none of the 3 pipes exceed 150m^3/min

ashen girder
#

I don't understand your question.

surreal dune
#

115/300m^3/min

#

shouldnt it be at 300?

ashen girder
#

A water extractor puts out 120..

surreal dune
#

ah fk forgot to even look at those.... thx lol

marsh gate
#

Alright. So I want to make a Computer factory similar to TotalXclipse's video (5 Computers/min), but mine would have additional Circuit Boards on the side and the Heavy Oil Residue converted to Coke for recycling.
Made the plan in satisfactorytools, but well I have two questions.
1: What alt recipes would be best for this setup?
2: Just how do I set up this ingame (if it's possible to do it similar to the video)?
https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=IKqMtRBhNamy56bugkAt

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

sand epoch
#

Just enable all the alts and it will use the most economical ones

#

Then you disable the ones you don't have...

#

Or just don't want to use... I hate refineries for non oil/bauxite

marsh gate
#

Yeah I kind of wish it didn't require oil too, but I apparently need Plastic.

#

I have a basic setup for Fuel/Plastic/Rubber though that helped me to progress.

sand epoch
#

You don't need plastic...

#

Alts

marsh gate
#

Both of them are rather painful. Especially the one that requires Crystal Oscillators. I haven't automated those yet because pain.

sand epoch
#

Pain is short lived. Ppm is long-term

topaz hedge
marsh gate
#

Thank you.

topaz hedge
#

you're welcome. you can throw in more alts to make it more efficient caterium and oil wise, at the expense of more power.

marsh gate
#

But what about turning the Heavy Oil Residue into something useful?

topaz hedge
#

But I was going for the cheapest simplest way. heavy oil is up to you to deal with xd

low needle
#

'

#

heavy coggy

crystal charm
fierce ruin
#

One day.

crystal charm
fierce ruin
#

😂

#

Shitting out screws it seems.

crystal charm
#

mk3 mining on a pure node feeds these, i can add 5 more i think without doing any power nodes

20211103214220_1.jpg
#

they then feed these 10 machines, with overflow, so i have a steady rate of 500pm on top of all my other screw factory spots which are spread around, i've linked them all together with a spaghetti mess of belts, and now i should never be short of screws

20211103214310_1.jpg
#

well, at least until i start expanding some other factories, but that's why i built this with room to expand if need be

#

i also had to rebuild the design flow of my uranium waste disposal system, it was clogging up and stopping the reactors, it should hopefully not be doing that at all now, i had to layer it back on itself a few times cause you use the direct waste in two spots but in very different values

crystal charm
#

holy shit, one of my plants ran out of concrete

frosty owl
#

Again, waste disposal is pretty simple, as long as you split it all into 4 correctly (3 go to the blenders, 1 to the accel)

crystal charm
#

you talking nuclear waste?

#

i only have 1 blender atm making it non-fissile

frosty owl
#

Assuming you're doing Non-fissile - > Plutonium Pellets, they take 3/4 and 1/4 of the waste respectively, not any more, not any less

elder parcel
#

Is there a guide to roughly how much of each resource I should be putting into what, or is that just determined by what we want our factories doing? Playing on our dedi with a few friends, and I'm out in the Dune Desert about to setup some major Steel Production. Just was curious roughly how much I should be making without screwing oursevles on resources later

frosty owl
#

So considering the total waste you have, one just needs to split it in 4 and send the most to the blenders

oblique hollow
elder parcel
#

Doing the Alternate Recipe of Solid Steel to help on resource cost, power, and make the Math dummy proof

#

We plan on late game ticket farm. We are just a bunch of ticket hobos

frosty owl
elder parcel
#

That makes sense, thanks!

frosty owl
#

So just go however big you want to get convenient numbers ^^

elder parcel
#

Well I'm just looking at the map, and there are so many coal / iron nodes out here in the Desert. Do I just turn it all to Steel? haha

ancient fulcrum
#

you give me paypal pls

oblique hollow
#

Give me YOUR paypal instead

elder parcel
#

Jokes on you, I owe them money!

frosty owl
#

Eg: most recipes have very convenient ratios when dealt with in sets of X machines
Eg: stitched plates output 5.smth/min, very bad number. Make it 8 machines and that's a much nicer 45/min

#

Same on the input side

elder parcel
#

Right. Yeah, I've been teaching the guys playing with me, that are all new, how to try to future-proof their builds. I love watching what they come up with. Could sit for hours and just watch them build / troubleshoot. It's hilarious how much our guy that started last night's base, looks identical to my first base. I took them to that super OP starting spot in the Northern Forest, and left them alone. They already setup basic oil last night.......

But I'm out here in the Desert, about to lay down a monster of a facility to run some major steel production out of, I just didn't know how much of this coal I should be burning for power, compared to used to make Steel, or something else?

frosty owl
#

That still depends on a few factors: what kind of coal you're burning, how much power you need, how many power storages you have...

#

You should guess how much power you can need until the next tier and work with that. If you ever lack coal, you could still just nerf the steel production for more power or find alternative sources of "coal" (which there are)

elder parcel
#

Well I have completed all tiers myself. I however have never actually setup a Nuclear setup or received the Golden Nut trophy. So I told the guys going in, my goal for this server and playthrough, was for them to learn, me to help when they want it, and I was going for my two goals of the trophy and a Nuclear Setup. So I figure we just sink everything we overproduce, and just keep upscaling. Greatly appreciate the help all. Thank you!

#

I think I'm going to math out and plan out a setup using those two pure coals and two of the pure irons to start. Math it out, and see what it produces, compare it to what we need / have, and go from there.

tidal briar
#

Who wants to do one question of my math homework

elder parcel
#

dibs

rough harness
#

I am fairly decent at math. Satisfactory is also secretly a math game.

fierce ruin
#

Secretly?

rough harness
#

Its not something that comes to mind the first time you see it.

dull bolt
#

Any factory game is more or less math if you want to get anything decent without waiting 200 million years.

rough harness
#

Right, if you want to optimize your setup. Of course the beauty of Satisfactory is you don't have to if you don't wan to.

fierce ruin
crystal charm
rough harness
#

I started with Factorio. Of course you can see it, but its rather simple math at the start. But I kind of got more into the math after I got heavy into Satisfactory which then helped me with Factorio

fierce ruin
#

All of the math is simple?

crystal charm
#

i like factorio, but the third dimension access in satisfactory wins me over big time, being able to build a vertical plant that pumps out all the screws i'll ever need is very nice

crystal charm
fierce ruin
#

You barely even get to algebraic levels.

rough harness
#

Well, Factorio power. 1 boiler runs 2 steam engines

fierce ruin
#

Just QUANTITY of math increases.

rough harness
#

Sure, you could run 1 pump per Coal Power Plant in satisfactory and it will run just fine as well

crystal charm
#

when i got to coal, i first built 3 plants, then upgraded to i think 6?

i only ever built 3 pumps and that was enough (might've overclocked them tho)

rough harness
#

I think i figure 2 plants per pump. Most I think I did was 12 plants running from a pure coal mode running a Mark 2 miner. Math got me to that point.

#

Anyway, its great to finally be able to talk to people about this game. I do have a friend I play with but he isn't a fan of automation games.

fierce ruin
#

You need better friends.

#

😏

rough harness
#

Well, he is great at FPS games

fierce ruin
#

Y A W N

crystal charm
#

if i'm gonna make a racetrack, reckon 2 foundations wide is good?

fierce ruin
#

Yes.

#

Half-pipes to the sides though.

rough harness
#

Survival games to. Conan Exiles. He actually has his own server. We also did that with RUST and Minecraft

crystal charm
#

oh hell yeah

rough harness
#

What makes us a good match thou, I like to build, he likes to collect stuff.

#

Satisfactory, I got machines doing my collecting and I can build stuff from there. I will admit thou, some people do amazing builds in this game.

#

Would be cool if Satisfactory did a Halloween theme thing, even if it was something like zombies. Maybe have a lizard dogo howl at the moon, turn that big sting ray into a large bat.

fierce ruin
#

I kill all lizard doggos on-sight so that wouldn't affect me much.

rough harness
#

let me guess, you use them to take care of your nuclear waste?

fierce ruin
#

I beat them to death with my basher.

#

What part of "on-sight" makes you think I take the time to give them items? 🙂

crystal charm
#

the beginnings of the race track, i'm gonna loop it onto the normal terrain, have some guided paths, put lights along the whole thing, and i'll seal the top of the pipe too

20211104040342_1.jpg
rough harness
#

Nice start

fierce ruin
#

@crystal charm fake photo. No beans in it.

crystal charm
#

this thing will be hilarious to race ficsit cars in

#

bit of a twist here using windows so you can see other drivers

20211104041446_1.jpg
fierce ruin
#

Should use Mac.

#

😏

crystal charm
#

mac?

fierce ruin
#

Windows pun...

crystal charm
#

oh, very bad one

fierce ruin
#

As is the case with gaming on Mac.
So I would say it's spot-on for a pun 😂

crystal charm
#

my tired brain doesn't want to math

oblique hollow
#

then use the ingame calc

crystal charm
#

if i have 480 coming in, i split it, that's 240 each, i then add a splitter on one of those and divvy it out on all 3, that's 80 per belt, if i send 2 of those back to the main line, that means the main line has 400 and the offshoot has 80?

oblique hollow
#

240 + 80 + 80 = 400 yes

crystal charm
#

like this? where the main line is the one going into the building

20211104050303_1.jpg
oblique hollow
#

and leaves 80 over

crystal charm
#

which, when joined with 2 belts from impure nodes with mk2 miners leaves me with a total of 200 ore coming into 4 foundrys which require a total of 180, thus leaving me excess

rough harness
#

embrace the spaghetti huh.

manic oak
woven crater
#

Why are HMFs so freaking complicated

sullen cloud
#

HMFs are only the nice introduction to full madness in the following tiers

ashen girder
fierce ruin
fierce ruin
ashen girder
fierce ruin
#

I believe in you.
Give it another minute of thought.
The answer will come.

#

Hint: Frames > HMFs > FMFs > PCCs

ashen girder
fierce ruin
#

Pressure Conversion Cubes 🙂

ashen girder
#

Yeah. Those don't really count IMO. Not until we can do stuff with them.

fierce ruin
#

Turbo motors and plutonium fuel rods say hello.

ashen girder
#

They aren't used in any buildings though.

crystal charm
#

I'm trying to sleep but my mind is obsessed with plans for nuclear pasta

fierce ruin
sullen cloud
#

pressure cubes already can be used as an input

ashen girder
fierce ruin
#

Yes but Tug is correct in there being no reason to store them.

ashen girder
#

I bet SAM stuff will require them.

fierce ruin
#

Possible Quantums need them.

ashen girder
fierce ruin
#

SPECULTATING OKE??

oblique hollow
#

i WANT the pressure conversion cube to be used in a packager recipe xd

fierce ruin
#

Packager?

ashen girder
#

I could see it. Turn SAM into some weird antimatter fluid.

oblique hollow
#

yes

#

its a container. packager deals with containers

fierce ruin
#

Fluid + PCC = ?

ashen girder
#

It puts the pasta in the box and stirs it all up.

fierce ruin
#

Ohhhh

#

That's a completely new way for me to think about them...

oblique hollow
#

they are officially classified as containers

ashen girder
#

😂 Says it right on the tin there man.

oblique hollow
#

same category as the normal gas bottles

fierce ruin
#

As we've proven with people and signals -- who reads?

oblique hollow
#

and canisters

ashen girder
oblique hollow
fierce ruin
#

PCC used for mk3 pipes with 9,000,000 flowrate 😏

oblique hollow
#

technically flow rate actually IS 600,000 and 300,000

#

(one 0 off but eh)

fierce ruin
#

Specifically because people want higher flowrate. So give them RIDICULOUSLY higher flow rate, so they can understand how fluid would barely move if pipes had that capacity 😄

oblique hollow
#

you just need to multiply everything by 1000 and remove the fluid decimals

#

because thats how the fluid stuff is actually mathed

#

in liters

fierce ruin
#

Does that actually fix fluid problems in the game?

oblique hollow
#

no but large number go brr and make people calm

fierce ruin
#

lol

oblique hollow
#

the game already does this

#

it does math in liters, it seems

fierce ruin
#

gallons 😏

oblique hollow
#

but we just get the "rounded" cubic meters

oblique hollow
fierce ruin
#

lmao

oblique hollow
#

gal / min

fierce ruin
#

Tablespoons / hour

oblique hollow
#

and also fathoms

wind spade
#

watermelons / spaceship

fierce ruin
#

^

oblique hollow
#

8 m foundation?
NAH WE DO: DECK, 8 FATHOMS

fierce ruin
#

I did watch a video where Neil D. Tyson said we need a new measurement beyond horsepower.
Because measuring rockets in hundreds of thousands of horses is just stupidity.

oblique hollow
#

has Neil never heard of Watts

fierce ruin
#

Whats the Watts to Newtons relation though?

#

What even is a Horsepower in Watts?

oblique hollow
#

1 N * 1 m / 1 s = 1 W or something

fierce ruin
#

1 HP = 745 Watt

#

So 365,000 HP to Watts wouldn't really clean anything up...

oblique hollow
#

thats why you use kilowatts

#

thats the range of power for normal AC motors, for example

fierce ruin
#

1 HP is 0.745 KW..

oblique hollow
#

aka 1 MW = 1341 HP

#

now you can do satis math in HP xd

#

btw pirate doesnt use HP because HP is too modern

#

we be usin the proper measures fer power: MP!

fierce ruin
#

I prefer to measure energy in terms of hamster wheels.

oblique hollow
#

carefull, MW is not energy

#

this is about power

wind spade
#

MW = MegahamsterWheel

oblique hollow
#

MightyWhoopers

fierce ruin
oblique hollow
#

@white lion

unknown.png
white lion
oblique hollow
#

this is 2 y connections in a way

#

not one large x

white lion
#

true, just not compact

oblique hollow
#

lemme see if i can replicate something ingame.....

white lion
#

gotta get my kid off the bus so afk for a few but this is what I"m trying to do

unknown.png
supple belfry
#

Curious: Is there a compelling reason to keep the roundabout? I've had much better luck keeping my network limited to three-way junctions (two-tracks each).

white lion
#

sexiness really...

#

I really don't like the 4 way cross patterns is all.... afk runescape_jace

sullen cloud
fierce ruin
white lion
#

Timestamp 6:05: https://youtu.be/SNyjS6Nw4Tw?t=365

YouTube
TotalXclipse
Train Signal Guide EVERYTHING Need To Know | Satisfactory Update 5

Train Signal Guide EVERYTHING Need To Know | Satisfactory Update 5
How not to crash using train signals in Satisfactory Update 5
--- Read More Below ---

Update 5 is here and it's time to wrestle with our train networks and add signals. If you feel a little overwhelmed about how and when to use path signals and block signals, do not worry! ...

▶ Play video
sullen cloud
#

It‘s sexier from a closer distance than looking down from the radar tower

white lion
#

Much sexier than a 4 way clip crossing for sure!!!

sullen cloud
#

I mean, what I see at 06:05 is not a circle

supple belfry
#

Yeah same.

white lion
#

14:58 shows it off and it has the dual crossings

#

My guess is an u4 save running u5

#

Odd it works for him

sullen cloud
#

this for example are two different tracks clipping through each other

unknown.png
oblique hollow
#

ah so clipping magic

supple belfry
oblique hollow
#

oh no me train got yeeted off the map xd

unknown.png
supple belfry
#

Try to set up a roundabout: the earlier screenshot you posted appears as if you're attempting to do a roundabout with a sharper turn.

tough pulsar
#

quick question - assuming all alternate recipies unlocked, what's the best heavy oil -> power generation model?

supple belfry
#

Really? I haven't done a roundabout in a minute, but I thought it was 3 foundations.

sullen cloud
#

no, 2.5

supple belfry
#

The one in the TotalXClipse uses four.

#

I guess I'd try a wider foundation setup and see if it work.

fierce ruin
#

In U5 wider roundabouts are better tbh.

sullen cloud
ashen girder
fierce ruin
ashen girder
fierce ruin
#

Best power... 🤦‍♂️ nevermind.

oblique hollow
#

btw, for trains, i can now confirm: 3 connections on a jucntion is the max

unknown.png
white lion
#

15:01 shows the best pic I'm interested in. I didn't notice he's using 4 block turns, I've always done 3...

unknown.png
#

It's a real shame to lose this functionality as it's clean AF; max sexiness IMO

supple belfry
#

Wait. Didn't you mention something about 2.5?

white lion
#

I'm going to start a test world for this later but for now... sigh, just oging to do a clipping 4 way.

I appreciate all the help thou!

supple belfry
#

If three-foundation roundabouts are now obsolete, that seems like a major shift.

white lion
supple belfry
#

Right, ok.

wind spade
#

roundabouts don't have good throughput, build normal junction

white lion
#

throughput != sexy thou 😉

sullen cloud
#

the left of the two signals on the right should point to the left side

supple belfry
#

He’s doing a left hand drive model, no?

wind spade
white lion
sullen cloud
#

What are normal junctions?

wind spade
sullen cloud
sullen cloud
wind spade
#

no, it's a build from AmelieOfTheSea

#

but it's a great example on how an intersection with high throughput and cool looks can be like

deft lichen
#

play Satisfactory like Cities: Skylines

wind spade
#

or you can also do classic junction

unknown.png
#

which is still better than a roundabout

sullen cloud
#

in terms of distance to travel through, yes

tropic hawk
#

I loved my 10 junction merger...

wind spade
wicked tinsel
#

those X intersections work fine if you fix them in map editor

#

its just that game builder is deficient and cant build them properly

#

and it seem they got half assed in U5 like a lot of things, and instead of fixing them properly, they now cant be build 🤷‍♂️

sullen cloud
#

I cannot remember being able to build X junctions ingame before update 5

wicked tinsel
#

they could be built in u4

#

they just wouldnt work completely fine

#

internally, each section has list of sections it connects to

#

when you build track junction, it makes the link between new section and one you target at

gleaming lagoon
#

What's the best option?

unknown.png
wicked tinsel
#

but it never attempted to make links with other sections that connect to it by virtue of being in same spot

wind spade
gleaming lagoon
#

2 or 3 for later?

#

i'm at tier 4 right now

#

so don't need any of them

sullen cloud
sand epoch
#

if you want to do lots of windows.. silica. 😛

oblique hollow
#

woooo patchnotes

supple belfry
#

Nothing earth shattering, but they’re plugging holes

sullen cloud
#

That’s a good summary

white lion
#

So far only noticing ghosting item on belts 🤞

fierce ruin
tropic hawk
tropic hawk
wind spade
tropic hawk
#

hmmm....

#

What is the size taken up in comparison?

#

24x24 for the normal, and what is the standard size for the classic?

fierce ruin
#

We are talking about sexiness, so size does matter.
Which means the larger configuration has priority.
😏

tropic hawk
#

Do we need to get mods?

#

as in Moderators, not modulations

fierce ruin
#

🤔

wind spade
#

the turbine interchange is bigger but has no crossings

tropic hawk
#

Noted. The only cost would be the additional labor to set it up

white lion
#

Any thoughts on why this train is stuck here?

Tracks are in/out style, right side forward. The two tracks following the hill south is a loop w/ a train stop w/ a block sig before/after the train stop.
Scratching my head on this one... especially since the next block sig is green, makes me think something is wrong w/ that southern loop... right?

unknown.png
indigo plank
#

I think the two tracks there where the signal is are too close together and it is confused at the block thinking the train itself is blocking it's own path

white lion
indigo plank
#

That is my guess I don't have much trains experience but I watched the same vid and remember the track too close for signals warning

white lion
#

makes sense. I removed that sig alltogether, i don't really think it's needed.
I"m still struggling to understand exactly where these sig's should be. I get the logic behind them, just in practice, how long of a section of track should be before making a new block, etc, etc

fierce ruin
#

I'm just going to delete my entire write-up on how signals work...

white lion
#

I see no pin 😭

fierce ruin
#

Pinned in the Community Resources on reddit and shared dozens of times in here...

white lion
#

Thanks man, I'm hardly ever here. Usually over on the modded server since "I Love Mods" 🙂

indigo plank
#

Well if just one train on the line nothing needed. 2 trains no turn offs in a lop should be good before and after stations with enough room for the trains. Complex set ups before a junction and enough space after the junction for the biggest train onthe line to fit.

white lion
# indigo plank Well if just one train on the line nothing needed. 2 trains no turn offs in a lo...

This network is growing fast, still don't have drones so I've gone from 1 train to 7 already. Was 7 individual tracks but I"m working on merging them and cleaning it all up and man... what a mess, lol (but fun at least)
At first I kept huge sections of very long track as a signle block but that'd cause other trains to wait, so now working on the balancing act of breaking things into smaller blocks

#

Appreciate the help!

indigo plank
#

^_^

white lion
#

@fierce ruin you got my upvote, although, not exactly what I'm looking for.

If you could add more about how to segment existing tracks, best practices and common 'gotchas' to look out for, 10 outta 10

fierce ruin
#

If you could add more about how to segment existing tracks

Putting signal creates blocks, which segment tracks. Not sure what you mean by "how to" beyond that.

best practices

Following the stated rules?

common 'gotchas' to look out for

99.99% of all gotchas are people not following the stated rules.

#

🤔

cunning jay
#

16 Coal Gens running at 100%
8 Water Pumps running at 75% (each feeding 2 Gens)

By My calculations should be 1200MW but only generating 900MW any ideas why?

#

Answer - I am an idiot and 4 of my Gens aren't connected to the main line lol.

sullen cloud
#

Don’t worry, happened to all of us

cunning jay
#

I thought I was going crazy with my math

#

Now to connect my next 8 gens and 4 pumps for a grand total of 1800MW early game power.

north sleet
#

Hello all! Long time player (and lurker) but with the new signals my brain isn't able to find a solution 😅 In the photo you can see my train track, and the red indicates where two trains (of different loops) use the same piece of track. Where and what type of signals should I use?

Screenshot_2021-11-04_005905.png
white lion
fierce ruin
north sleet
#

Welp, I did not... I guess he handles a track similar to mine?

#

Thanks!

fierce ruin
white lion
#

he outlines the fundementals of what they are and how they work w/ various examples.

I feel you thou, I'm doing the same thing as well

north sleet
#

I see, I'll definitely watch it either way.

north sleet
fierce ruin
fierce ruin
north sleet
#

North

fierce ruin
#

sec

north sleet
#

No problem

white lion
fierce ruin
#

For this specific spot, you make a bypass by having the station being a one-way lane going north, and the bypass being a one-way going south.
Trains travelling in opposite directions will always avoid each other because the pathfinding does respect track direction.

unknown.png
#

Red = Block
Purple = Path
@north sleet

north sleet
#

Aha

#

For clarity's sake I did disable quite some layers though because this is how it looks like in-game 🤣

HighResScreenshot20211104-011346.png
#

Guess I'll go ahead and watch that video

#

Or is it just not possible to use signals in my case without adding a track?

sullen cloud
#

you can also do it without a bypass

fierce ruin
#

You have to have the bypass or it will always end in trains facing eachother stopping the system.

north sleet
#

I'm seeing conflicted answers 😅

fierce ruin
#

Unless you have your trains perfectly timed so they never arrive on that track at the same time.

#

Or if you're fine with them waiting very, very long times elsewhere.

sullen cloud
#

how many trains do you intend to run on that route?

#

it's very short anyways

north sleet
#

2

#

Ideally, the red would be their "holding" points.

cunning jay
#

Unless you want to path/block signal this entire block which will mean only 1 train in the area at any one time then the bypass is best -

unknown.png
north sleet
#

Yup that

cunning jay
#

Parallel lines would be your best option there.

north sleet
#

Fair enough 😄

fierce ruin
#

If you're fine with that whole section being one block then you can make the holding areas.
Otherwise - bypass.

north sleet
#

Roger

#

If I want it to be one block, where would I put the signals?

cunning jay
#

At the Fork one facing south one facing north.

fierce ruin
#

All the way up where your "holding areas" are.

north sleet
#

Aha

#

Because it's essentially a loop?

cunning jay
#

Exactly

north sleet
#

Gotcha

fierce ruin
#

Well... a block, but yes.

cunning jay
#

Only way to ensure there is no two trains in that area at the same time.

north sleet
#

Sorry if I'm asking too much, but I placed two signals on the junction but that doesn't seem to work. I guess I have to put them past it? I'll get the hang out of it soon haha

cunning jay
#

You got one facing north one south?

fierce ruin
#

If you placed only 2 signals... you have just begun.

north sleet
#

Yeah

cunning jay
#

If you put anymore past it will count it as further blocks.

fierce ruin
#

If you make the bottom section into 1 block, you still have to signal everything ABOVE that section.

north sleet
fierce ruin
#

Also they should both 100% be block signals.

cunning jay
#

^^ THIS

north sleet
#

Yep, both are block signals.

fierce ruin
#

cool. So now you just have to signal everything north of there.

cunning jay
#

That train isn't going into next area because there is a train there too

#

So that is everything south sorted but now as Sevrahn said you need to break the north up into blocks now.

north sleet
#

Indeed, on the left track (this train is going on the right track).

#

I see

#

Mind if you guys quickly help me with that as well?

#

Already 01:30 am here and brain going slowly 😅

cunning jay
marsh gate
#

So I'm trying to plan out HMF to work with my current 10 MF/min factory. Currently, they all go into central storage. I want to split the Modular Frames in half, where half would go into storage and the other half would go into making Heavy frames.
I realize it won't be an even 50/50 split, but I'm trying to not have to do a major redesign of my Modular Frame factory.
https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=i6ZdY3NPDBvGTt63J6Pl

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

#

The reason why I posted the link here is I could help with any alt recipes that might help with this.

north sleet
# cunning jay

I set it up like that but the last remaining problem is this, the train drives up to the signal and then basically blocks the whole train track.

Satisfactory_Screenshot_2021.11.04_-_01.38.37.70.png
#

Oh wait, you did put your markers further down the track.

cunning jay
#

Put the signals either side of the split instead of on the signals.

north sleet
#

Yeah

cunning jay
#

**Singles

sullen cloud
marsh gate
marble coral
#

I have no clue how to split 5 so that I have 2 belts of 2p/m and 1 belt of 1p/m 😵‍💫

sullen cloud
# marsh gate Which ones?

I would turn all alts for the HMF and look at the result. I would never build wet concrete or this rubber production but use existing production lines for those. However, you should go for the heavy encased recipe for the HMF

topaz hedge
#

1 steel screw constructer per assembler though. just adjust the clockspeed to match the bolted recipe and you don't have to deal with "513.33" screws a miunte

#

so you'll really have 5 constructors making steel screws.

marsh gate
#

Thank you for this. 🙂

barren lagoon
#

how does fluid priority work? if I have a building with excess water feeding back into another building thats also connected to a water extractor, will it use the building water before extracting more or does it depend on pressure?

stark bronze
#

whoever wins wins
if the pipe is full they both will stop, and if the extractor wins the building wont continue outputting water and you are doomed

oblique hollow
#

Fluid priority works by abusing funky junction logic that nobody understands. All i know is if you put 2 junctions into vertical alignment and connect the top of one to the bottom of the other one above it, you get a priority system

#

Where the pipe connected to the bottom junction has priority

fleet aurora
# north sleet

dont place a signal after a junction but in front of it. trains will block the junction forever

north sleet
nova steppe
#

how do I signal this, can someone point me out where and what signals I must use. The stripes are trainstations with a 2 way locomotive

unknown.png
#

Or should I just not be lazy and add a way out of the trainstation through the other way?

fleet aurora
#

I wouldn’t place a signal that’s facing away from a junction. But that also depends from the distance

nova steppe
#

the arrows are what way the rails are heading

cunning jay
#

I would do block signals both sides of the track at each of these lines.

Screenshot_2021-11-04-09-47-48-776.jpg
fierce ruin
nova steppe
#

So path signals on the right (going in) and block signals on the left (going out)

#

So this is correct signaling?

unknown.png
#

I just only want a train to enter if the station it is heading for is completely clear

wind spade
#

Top right can be block. The block signal on top left track (the bottom one) has to be path

nova steppe
#

like this?

unknown.png
wind spade
#

Yes. You can even replace the other path signal on top right track with block signal

nova steppe
#

aight okay, thanks. signaling is very confusing to me, cuz it seems simple in my head but I just cant wrap my head around it

wind spade
#

it's very simple. Just follow a few rules:

  • place block signals on any one-way track
  • place block signals on each exit track from a junction
  • place path signals on each entry track to a junction
fierce ruin
#

There’s a great video on video on YouTube on that https://youtu.be/SNyjS6Nw4Tw

YouTube
TotalXclipse
Train Signal Guide EVERYTHING Need To Know | Satisfactory Update 5

Train Signal Guide EVERYTHING Need To Know | Satisfactory Update 5
How not to crash using train signals in Satisfactory Update 5
--- Read More Below ---

Update 5 is here and it's time to wrestle with our train networks and add signals. If you feel a little overwhelmed about how and when to use path signals and block signals, do not worry! ...

▶ Play video
north sleet
wind spade
north sleet
#

I see

wind spade
#

oh, also one more point:

  • don't put any signals in the middle of a junction
north sleet
#

I’m still learning very much, was quite confused last night.

north sleet
wind spade
#

but if you follow those rules, it's super simple and shouldn't bring any issues. You can ofc signal the track in other way, this is just one example how to get correct signalling simply

fierce ruin
#

@north sleet did my post about signal logic help at all? (just woke up)

magic cargo
#

Has anyone calculated the math for maximum nuclear power attainable using a mix of Uranium and Plutonium?

fierce ruin
#

Yes. And I am pretty sure there are screenshots of the "Max Nuke" build somewhere.

magic cargo
#

Didnt find a screenshot. But 50.4 Uranium Cells popped up a few times. I can probably mathulate the rest from there. Thank ya!

sullen cloud
#

<@&387163995947270144> spam above

tropic hawk
# magic cargo Has anyone calculated the math for maximum nuclear power attainable using a mix ...

Depends if you are sinking your plutonium rods, or using them to generate power.
If you are sinking them, it is 50.4 Uranium rods/minute, or 252 100% Reactors, 630,000 MW. If you are burning them, that is 22.4 Plutonium rods/minute, or 224 Plants. 560,000 MW, or 1,190,000 MW. It might be higher if you use the Fertile Uranium recipie, but you would have to lower production of uranium fuel rods due to the uranium needed for the Fertile Uranium

frosty owl
#

Yep fertile uranium gives the max amount of plutonium rods, but not the max amount of power (you sacrifice more uranium power than plutonium power gained)

tropic hawk
#

good to know

north sleet
#

Still gonna watch the video as well.

heady mist
#

I have a logistics question. Say I produce a lot of plastic at one factory. Is there a way to distribute the plastic based on needs to multiple factories via train, without having to use multiple stations?

Eg. I produce 360/min plastic at factory A. I want roughly 60/min at factory B, 120/min at factory C, and the rest into central storage/overflow. Can I accomplish that without having to build separate train stations at factory A and balance each of their loads by belt for each of the three destinations? It's ok if the numbers aren't super exact and it's not 100% efficient, just want to know if it's possible. Thanks!

sullen cloud
#

The train unloads until the storage is full at a station. So after having a full storage once at station B and C, only the surplus of 60 will go to storage. No need for blancers or more stations.

heady mist
#

Ohh right awesome, thanks!

frosty owl
heady mist
thorn bane
#

keep in mind that the whole station will need to fill up for it to overflow
i once had my nuclear waste build up because i was shipping control rods to uranium and plutonium rods production
but the uranium production buffer wasnt full so my plutonium production didnt get any control rods resulting in huge amounts of waste and radioactivity

patent plover
thorn bane
#

pretty sure 5 way splitters dont need time to balance they just work

fierce ruin
#

Isn't that 1.94, not 2?

marble coral
patent plover
#

It’s 1.94 the first output, but the line that feeds back to the first merger gets slightly bigger each time it feeds back on itself until it balances at 1/2/2

fierce ruin
#

So this is one of those fun 1.9999999999999999 things that we just say is 2? 🙂

thorn bane
#

no it just works

fierce ruin
#

I read that in stoner voice. "No it just works bro"
😂

thorn bane
#

the 1.94 etc is a mathematical way of proving that its 2 but thats not what happens

oblique hollow
thorn bane
#

its only 1.999 in the way youre proving that the system is 2
in reality its just 2

fierce ruin
#

@thorn bane I am not serious. 🙂 Apologies if you got a brief headache from that.

thorn bane
#

nah its fine it just hear that so often that it converges to 2
where thats wrong. the mathematical system that youre describing it with has an equation that converges to 2
the actualy physical system is always correct from the start

patent plover
#

Honestly I’ve never actually counted what comes out of that split when I first set it up. Interesting that it immediately jumps to correct.

fierce ruin
crystal charm
#

so, there i am, watching tv at 3:30am cause my sleeping pattern is screwed, and my brain starts thinking, hmm, my aluminium production is slowing things up a little, why don't i build a new factory, and i'm like "brain, no, we need sleep", but my brain is already plotting it out and connecting pipelines and conveyor belts and thinking how best to get the silica over to where it's needed

#

stupid brain

hoary locust
#

how do yall plan for a factory that will build all final tier space elevator parts and extra
of all of producible parts without losing track of whats being produced and keeping organized

sullen cloud
#

Using an own spreadsheet

thorn bane
fierce ruin
hoary locust
#

i plan on automating and then sinking them and getting the fancy statues at awesome shop

crystal charm
thorn bane
#

#meta just got to T7/8 in 32h
whats your guys time 🙂

manic steeple
#

What is the best way with going about setting up production lines? I've found that using the calculator and tool sites come up with production lines that don't translate well into the actual game, especially when it comes to how everything is distributed through splitters.

crystal charm
#

to beginning the unlock of t8? probably somewhere over 100 hours

crystal charm
manic steeple
#

Rarely

thorn bane
shadow prairieBOT
crystal charm
#

well, experiment, try, if it fails, make it better

thorn bane
#

together with

unknown.png
crystal charm
#

if you want to go perfect, there are builds out there, if you want to sort your own out like i do, just build, wait for it to fail, find the point of failure and improve, continue until perfect

manic steeple
#

My main issues come from using a 100% clocked miner and splitting it off into one line that requires a certain amount of something that can't be split off easily

crystal charm
#

details

#

mining what, for what?

manic steeple
#

Using this motor production line as an example, I don't see any easy way to split 157.5 off 240 so I could use the left over amount of iron for passive production into another part such as something basic like iron plates. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=TBwKGcwH0nNZv0zCYa80

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

crystal charm
#

don't bother dealing with numbers that aren't whole

#

and think in terms of 2s and 3s for math

thorn bane
#

just manifold it (hence why i linked the wiki site for manifold)
as in you have 1 splitter of the 157.5 iron that goest to both the steel and iron smetler
once the iron smelter is full it will uverflow the other 45 iron to the steel foundry

crystal charm
#

so, you split the 240 into 2 lines, you get 120 on each, you then split one of those into 3, divert one of those splits into the first and you end up with 160 on one line, and merge the rest into the main line

#

or split it into 3, then merge two of those splits, same math, less splitters/belts

manic steeple
#

Alright, I'll try both of your ideas. Thanks

crystal charm
#

lol, so i noticed my silica production seemed off, and i went to check the whole line, and realised the source miners on the quartz nodes were never upgraded from mk1

#

here's a very basic example of splitting production from a mining source, it's not efficient atm cause of my aforementioned miner fail, but you can see that the main line is split into 3, one of those 3 is for pure silica production, another is directed to the radio control build

20211105051003_1.jpg
manic steeple
#

So is the main idea basically to not worry about 100% efficiency for more complex production?

crystal charm
#

ah, no, for certain complex production you definitely need 100% efficiency in most areas or it will fail, that there is very basic silica production

thorn bane
crystal charm
#

i'm fixing that because my alumina production is not running efficiently and one of the reasons is silica input

#

see how i'm taking radiation damage from that far away? cause it wasn't 100% efficient and plutonium rods started stacking up, causing a massive issue, i've since fixed it, but it's a slow process and will take several more hours to burn through the stockpile there

20211105051640_1.jpg
#

with 2 miner upgrades i just quadrupled my silica output

#

if i find some more slugs, i can overclock them and max out the belt

#

oh, i found one right nearby, so now i've got 600pm on a belt that can handle 750

#

sorry, 780

manic steeple
crystal charm
#

i mean, there's a lot of complex production in this game, my supercomputers for example, the final product is only running at maybe 10% efficiency cause of my crappy input of circuit boards, but the rest of the system is at 100%

#

my nuclear power though, everything must run at 100% or it fails

#

or rather, be capable of running at 100%, the waste disposal will ideally only run at about 50% efficiency by the time the stockpile is sorted, but all input must be 100% or better, or the plants fail

thorn bane
manic steeple
#

I'll just mess around with whatever ideas pop into my head that sound like they might work

crystal charm
#

if you're talking a perfect input and output system, you can do that if you want, but once you get to tier 8 levels you'll go fucking insane managing that

#

certain things you probably want to set up a fire and forget system. like screws for example, i got sick of fixing my inputs here and there, so i have overbuilt the shit out of that, and now produce about 5x more than i need

thorn bane
#

for example 60 limestone into 2 concrete constructors at 0.666% each into 20 concrete is efficient in my opinion me since 60 * 1/3 = 20

crystal charm
#

i also went nuts on my concrete and set up a mk3 miner feeding 3 overclocked constructors with about 500,000 storage units

#

i pretty much never have to worry about supplies of that, like ever

thorn bane
#

from what ive gathered sitting in this discord for lots of hours people usually stop caring for 100% machine efficiency the further they play

crystal charm
#

yaeh, there's certain ones that matter, like fuel plants or nuclear plants, or parts related to them, but beyond that, you will literally go insane trying to make that perfect

oblique hollow
#

at some point you might even stop caring about efficiency at times just to build pretty stuff

fringe pawn
#

hides his U5 buildings that have literally no machines >>_

thorn bane
#

also some people might call this blasphemy but in my opinion not using the best alt. recipe is not 100% efficient even when the machine says so
but thats just me 🙂

crystal charm
#

i love my concrete factory building, it's pretty to me

#

but then, i also started building a racetrack

thorn bane
#

45 limestone into 15 concrete is only 66% efficient since you could get 30 with wet conrete 🙂

sullen cloud
oblique hollow
crystal charm
#

that's my pretty concrete manufacturing facility

20211105053018_1.jpg
oblique hollow
#

and i had barely any water available nearby

manic steeple
#

Right now my plans are building temporary factories to produce whatever I need to progress through the tiers, then once all that is finished, create permanent layouts and interesting building shapes/designs, even if it isn't producing as efficiently as a barebones, basic factory would.

crystal charm
#

and my "WTF is that monstrosity" aluminium plant

20211105053126_1.jpg
thorn bane
crystal charm
#

i built that plant out of necessity, and my plan is to build a brand new one somewhere else, make it pretty, and switch this one off

manic steeple
#

I've tried making permanent factories with where I am now but I keep realizing that it's way more difficult to future-proof a build than it is to just rebuild once I get something that I'm looking to get

fierce ruin
crystal charm
thorn bane
#

im just saying if you do a survey of t1/2 players vs people with the golden cup more people will abandon 100% efficiency

fierce ruin
#

Recipe efficiency maybe not as much.
But MACHINE eff better still be at 100%

#

If I see a single yellow light on my line I am about to go find some lizards to murder.

thorn bane
#

imo a manifold of 20 machines where the last is underclcoked is exactly the same as just 20 machines

#

since you only save power not resources

manic steeple
sullen cloud
fierce ruin
crystal charm
#

well, the best way to do that is overpredict, so lets say you're in early tiers and you need to make iron plates. You're going to need them forever, so instead of planning to make enough for now, go like 10x over what you currently need, and you'll eventually use up the excess as you progress

#

and if you plan on going the train route, then hot damn you'd best step up your steel production into overdrive

fierce ruin
#

@thorn bane am I misinterpreting what you mean by people giving up on eff?

Like are you saying people are fine with yellow lights?

thorn bane
thorn bane
fierce ruin
#

EWWWWWWW

#

Reasons I wouldn't play multiplayer even if it wasn't more broken than my trust in lizard doggos...

thorn bane
#

im sorry but if you need 326.3854 iron for a space elevator part your just gonna have some yellow lights xD

fierce ruin
#

Why would I ever automate space elevator parts? 🙂

sullen cloud
thorn bane
fierce ruin
thorn bane
# fierce ruin Which time?

?
i mean have you send the 4th space elevator
since i said people that have done that care less for 100% machine efficiency

fierce ruin
#

I still will never automate project assembly parts.

thorn bane
#

so you handfed 10000 space elevator parts? damn

fierce ruin
#

?

#

Storage containers > Machines > Elevator doesn't count as automating them to most people.

manic steeple
#

what

thorn bane
#

ye sorry thats what i meant you handfed the machines for 10000 space elevator parts

fierce ruin
#

Because I have no "production line" for the parts that can be traced to a miner.
I just fill containers with the exact resources needed for the parts and let them run.

crystal charm
#

i've done the same with the nuclear pasta

thorn bane
#

but anyway
so youre saying in those playthroughs you didnt have a single yellow light?

crystal charm
#

everything but the fused cubes is automated

fierce ruin
#

Oh if I find a yellow light I will immediately correct it.

#

They bother the shit out of me.

crystal charm
#

lol, come and join my world, i want to see if you have an aneurysm

fierce ruin
#

No. 😛

thorn bane
#

oh speaking of efficiency
imo its also 0% efficiency when a production line is full as its just wasting the input
and 5% efficiency is better than 0%

#

(same with if its being sunk)

fierce ruin
#

Like I said, I will use less efficient recipes sometimes, but I will never tolerate yellow lights.

crystal charm
#

you know how when you upgrade an existing miner, it doesn't use all 3 auto miners in your inventory?, does that mean if you don't have 3 you can perform the upgrade?

fierce ruin
crystal charm
fierce ruin
#

In my experience, it won't let you upgrade without having 3, but it takes only the amount needed to upgrade.

crystal charm
#

sigh

fierce ruin
thorn bane
fierce ruin
thorn bane
#

oh damn

ashen girder
#

He's built different.

fierce ruin
#

I will down-clock them when necessary.

#

I say "down-clock" because to me their default is 2.5x overclocked 🙂

crystal charm
# fierce ruin Yes.

but, think of the chain reaction of that? i scale it down so it stays green, the biggest hurdle is the circuit boards, which isn't green cause of not enough plastic input, lets say i slow that down too so it's green, i could probably manage that, but what about the cable input, the screw input, i can't scale those down because they are directed in other places and intentionally overproduced atm to cover future builds

fierce ruin
ashen girder
crystal charm
#

i'd have to go back and forth every time i built something new to change efficiency levels

thorn bane
ashen girder
#

You do, but that one's not weird. 😛

fierce ruin
#

I LIKE GREEN LIGHTS AND I CANNOT LIE.

crystal charm
ashen girder
cunning jay
#

Is it just me I can not find Quarts anywhere.

thorn bane
crystal charm
#

pretty sure you can order meth from websites too

fierce ruin
crystal charm
ashen girder
#

Yup.

crystal charm
thorn bane
fierce ruin
cunning jay
#

Yeti I know where there was lots of Quarts Started in Rocky Deserts I have trekd to 4 ping sites and there isn't a node there.

fierce ruin
ashen girder
cunning jay
ashen girder
#

They're definitely there. I promise.

thorn bane
fierce ruin
#

Rocky Desert has the best crystal cave.
You fit like 20 refineries in it and can get like 10k crystal per minute.

#

BIG cave.

ashen girder
thorn bane
#

that ones super hard to find as its big af

fierce ruin
#

Has 2 outlets too so it's really easy to run a train through.

cunning jay
#

Nice.

crystal charm
#

take this for example, all yellow because i currently have no mycella, this is my gas mask and iodine filter production, i'm gonna wall it off later and make it pretty, but for now i just wanted it set up, i have a deposit box back in the central base area with a power switch nearby, so i can turn it on and off, it's obviously on now, but i don't like red lights

20211105055019_1.jpg
fierce ruin
#

If you need the entrance, just scan coal.

crystal charm
ashen girder
crystal charm
#

sorry, so sorry

fierce ruin
#

First entrance is by the coal by the river.

crystal charm
fierce ruin
ashen girder
fierce ruin
#

MAX FABRIC BUILD

ashen girder
#

It's also not actually plastic, sorry. Polymer resin. 😂

crystal charm
#

fabric needed there, and unless there's an alt recipe, the only one i have is biomass + mycella

20211105055234_1.jpg
ashen girder
#

It's the automatable alt for fabric.

crystal charm
#

well fuck me, i want that so hard right now, i've got both the 6-12 rubber/plastic recycle recipes so i can use my resin for that

fierce ruin
#

well fuck me, i want that so hard right now
TWSS

crystal charm
#

i wasn't kidding about the racetrack either, i've plotted out the path further into natural terrain, and it goes near cliff edges, so it's like, death race worthy

20211105055433_1.jpg
#

btw, i'm on tier 8, and i'm only now upgrading my sulfur input, it has mk1 belts that i'm replacing

ashen girder
crystal charm
#

hmm, my silica is still a bit slow, not sure if it's production or transportation

tawdry hornet
crystal charm
#

i'm going to make them full pipes with lighting

tawdry hornet
#

and now realizing Satisfactory would be the greatest THPS level editor

crystal charm
#

i also discovered whilst testing out that you can't drive the explorer straight at the quarter pipe

crystal charm
tawdry hornet
#

forget golf, need skateboarding

ashen girder
crystal charm
#

also, i just mathed out, i can build 20 more silica producers, YELLOW LIGHTS EVERYWHERE

tawdry hornet
crystal charm
#

i have about half the track planned out, it involves a lot of natural terrain, including through some gas, so if you don't go fast enough through there you die

#

and you can fall off a cliff into the void

magic cargo
crystal charm
#

all 9 of those need to be full of copper dust (well just shy of full) to produce the nuclear pasta required, this has been running for about 30 hours now and 1.5 containers are full, i might need to dedicate some resources to this if i ever want it done this year

20211105063424_1.jpg
crystal charm
pearl nexus
#

Ok, dumb question, how can I split 10 to 8 and 2. All I’ve got is mergers and splitters at this point.

ashen girder
pearl nexus
#

Ok, how does that work, or where can I look to understand how that works. 😂

crystal charm
#

10 into 8 and 2 is a bit annoying to build, but easy to math out

#

wait, atually, it's easy

ashen girder
crystal charm
#

no, wait, crap

pearl nexus
#

I’m just starting. Haven’t learned the math yet. 😂

ashen girder
#

You don't really need balancers in this game, unless you want them.

#

The lines will fill up eventually.

pearl nexus
#

I want them because it’s kinda fun to play that way for me.

crystal charm
#

i mean, you can basically split it endlessly until you have 10 lines of 1, and then merge 8 and 2

#

but honestly, 10 into 8 and 2 is a bit tricky, this game works on split multiples of 2 and 3

ashen girder
#

The trick is you can back-feed one line to get odd numbers.

#

So split 6 ways, feed one line back to the beginning to get a 5-way split.

pearl nexus
#

👀

ashen girder
#

That's how all of them work. You just have to make sure your belts can run at n+1/n% speed.

#

So if you want 5 outputs, your line needs to be able to support 120% of the speed of each output.

crystal charm
#

lol, i'm listening to songs on youtube, and eminem - stan long version came on, they silence the bad language for some reason so segments of the song are just music-silence-music-silence-halfmumbledword-silence

pearl nexus
crystal charm
#

if you split a line into 2

#

and then split one of those further into 2, and back feed it into the main line before the original split

ashen girder
pearl nexus
#

Holy cow, mind blown right now

#

Thanks for the help

crystal charm
#

something like this poorly drawn effort

lol.png
ashen girder
#

The caveat is that if you need, say, 12 at each output, you need a line that can handle (1.2 * 12 * 5 = ) 72 total. It won't balance correctly on a 60/min line.

crystal charm
#

it's often easier to allow for a small % of overflow

#

but, some people like things perfect

ashen girder
crystal charm
#

i laugh in the face of balance

20211105073101_1.jpg
#

i mean, except for nuclear

ashen girder
#

Yeah, but really, don't balance things. 😂 It's not worth the effort.

crystal charm
#

you don't mess with nuclear power without perfection

#

and i mean perfection in like 2-3 elements, others can just go nuts

ashen girder
#

Here's my diagram from forever ago. 😂

unknown.png
sullen cloud
#

what in nuclear has to be balanced?

crystal charm
#

i love the math behind nuclear power tbh, like, i had a failure earlier, and troubleshooting that took me about 30 minutes, turns out i had a sulfur supply issue, which was causing a chain on effect which was preventing magnetic rods to get to the plants

ashen girder
#

Square's a splitter, diamond's a merger.

#

That'll let you balance without the extra overhead.

crystal charm
#

not to mention waste build up creates an ever expanding zone of radiation

sullen cloud
#

well, if you recycle the waste for plutonium you need that as the total input. But that input does not need to be balanced.

crystal charm
#

that sulfur flow issue? it was to my battery factory, which is linked to my aluminium production, which is linked to creating heat sinks, which is linked to creating plutonium fuel rods, which go into the awesome sink

sulfur slowed down, shut down aluminium produciton, shut down heat sink, shut down plut fuel rod factory, caused back flow of waste

sullen cloud
#

yeah, but that's not balancing. That's having a working supply chain 😄

pearl nexus
crystal charm
crystal charm
pearl nexus
# pearl nexus

I love knowing that that somehow comes out to 2 but don’t know how that math works right off the top of my head.

ashen girder
# pearl nexus

This set up works, but "C" + 10 can't go above the line speed between the first merger and splitter.

crystal charm
#

i just wish that we could put splitters directly onto miners, my 1200pm coal miner can only do 780 cause of the belt

ashen girder
#

And it works because it's basically artificially increasing the input.

pearl nexus
#

I mean, the line speed is 60 minimum so I think it’s fine.

ashen girder
ashen girder
crystal charm
#

yeah lots of different theories thrown around about the mk6 belt, i doubt it will go up to 1200 though

ashen girder
#

But from the 3 splitters perspective, the first splitter's actually getting 12 and splitting it 6 ways.

ashen girder
pearl nexus
ashen girder
crystal charm
#

i had to do a bit of that math last night, i had 480 iron ore coming in to my screw plant, and i needed to divert some of it into my steel factory, so i had to math out a split of 80

#

most of the math is limit based stuff

pearl nexus
#

Yeppp

#

But that’s all calculus is

crystal charm
#

cause you can always make more factories

ashen girder
#

I will say though, the idea of "just.. stick 10% and put it back in the beginning to make it seem like more" feels kind of insane to me. 😂

#

It feels like cheating.. but it actually works. 🤷‍♂️

crystal charm
#

i still think this game requires more meth than math

ashen girder
#

I don't recall if it's immediately balancing or not though. I feel like it might not be.

sullen cloud
crystal charm
#

hmm, i need to build two more steel frame constructors, i have coal in excess since i have a maxed out mk5 belt, but iron...

#

steel beam i mean

#

what's the best way to increase my steel bar by 105pm

#

overclock existing foundries or build new ones?

#

six power cells and i'm set

#

time for a good old fashioned bug hunt

#

nice, 9 power cells worth of slugs in like 5 minutes

#

i freaking love that object scanner

#

@ashen girder have you got a rough layout of your inventory dump/sorter? i have one set up for biomass generation atm, but not for the rest, i'm thinking of making a building like a proper home

#

i just sort of circle around the ficsit base atm and i'm outgrowing that

ashen girder
crystal charm
#

yeah i'm thinking a few programmable, a few smart

ashen girder
#

I'm planning to rearrange it so it's split out by tier so I can use programmables to break it off earlier.

#

I had to use a programmable to get all the high velocity crap off the line since it was filling up with quickwire.

#

So now it just directly sinks some portion of the fuel and quickwire that comes through. 😂

crystal charm
#

like, i'd program the biomass stuff off straight away, and then have a sort of storeroom of regular stuff i carry like concrete, belt mats, wire mats etc

#

i can't wait for signs in ea5, that's gonna be probably one of the best things for me

ashen girder
crystal charm
#

is there an in game note pad?

ashen girder
crystal charm
#

oh damn it, the calculator does not follow order of operations

broken quest
crystal charm
#

i was using it for number notes for incoming iron ore, i had 90+90+90+45-60-60 written in there as i'm going around doing the math, and it's telling me that = 315

#

which, it does not

#

huh, if i put the +s in brackets and the -s in brackets it works

#

kinda silly

broken quest
crystal charm
#

you know another tool that would be absolute mint, something you could point at a conveyor, and it tells you the current items p/m

#

in game calculator, default key is n

broken quest
#

YO WHAT 😳

crystal charm
#

yeah i only learned about it the other day

broken quest
#

I gotta try that when I get off of work today 😄

ashen girder
crystal charm
#

it's like it's doing a double negative on the 60-60 instead of straight order of operations

ashen girder
#

Oh, I guess I meant what was the actual answer. 😂

crystal charm
#

oh, ah, 195?

ashen girder
#

🤔 Your computer's dumb, dude.

unknown.png
#

You should get a new one.

crystal charm
#

what the hell?

ashen girder
#

😂 I have no idea but I love it.

crystal charm
#

are you on exp?

ashen girder
#

Yup.

#

Did they ninja fix a bug?

crystal charm
#

must be a known bug that's fixed

jade minnow
#

Before U5 you had to use brackets even if it's just plain additions

crystal charm
#

yeah if i did it with brackets it worked

jade minnow
#

but mine also says 195

crystal charm
#

are you on 4?

#

cause i am

jade minnow
#

EXP

#

then they seem to have fixed the calc with U5

ashen girder
#

I'm gonna stick to your computer's dumb and can't math right. 😉

crystal charm
#

my ficsit equipment is faulty? but FICSIT is perfect

ashen girder
#

I don't think they've ever claimed that. Just that they, you know, don't waste.

crystal charm
#

if i set a miner above 780, it will still just put out at 780 right? like it won't cycle on/off and mess up that flow?

broken quest
#

uh

ashen girder
broken quest
#

if it can't put out stuff fast enough (belt speed, blockage) then yeah it'll cycle

ashen girder
#

It'll output whatever you set it to until it's full.

crystal charm
#

it will cycle, but it has an internal buffer

ashen girder
#

And it'll send out your belt speed per minute as long as there's something to send..

crystal charm
#

so, it's all good, i just sat watching it for a minute

#

time to do some splitter/merger math

#

well fuck me, that was hilariously perfect

#

i already had a splitter+merger set up on that iron ore line, which feeds my massive production of screws (600/pm currently)

i just did the math on the existing split there and it works out to exactly the extra i need to maintain 100% steel production

#

exactly 195

wind spade
ashen girder
#

(Psst. That's 15 more than the line can handle. 😉 )

crystal charm
ashen girder
#

795 > 780..

crystal charm
#

that's a one not a seven

ashen girder
#

600+195

crystal charm
#

the 600 is the screw output, not the iron input

ashen girder
#

Fair. 😂 Just making sure.

crystal charm
#

i'm about to go nuts on iron plates too

#

make another mini factory that just outputs like 780pm

#

they are slowing up the chain for HMFs

#

a couple of nifty QoL things would be nice in this game, like setting a building to manufacture until x

#

especially with the spaceship requirements

ashen girder
#

Why? Just sink the overflow.

crystal charm
#

i know, but like, that just feels wasteful

ashen girder
#

They pay you for it tho..

crystal charm
#

with what, statues?

ashen girder
#

Also, you can just set up a once-off manufacturer with just enough inputs to make the number you want. That's what I usually do.

crystal charm
#

i've unlocked everythign else

ashen girder
crystal charm
#

sure i can buy parts, but i kinda went and set up factories to make those parts

#

so i'm using those parts to make coupons to buy those parts

ashen girder
#

PA parts = Project Assembly parts.

#

They're worth a buttload of points if you sink them.

crystal charm
#

yeah i get that

quaint rampart
#

one factory making smart plating using the vanilla recipe produces 1040 points per minute, when everything else in its tier produces around a tenth of that

crystal charm
#

but what am i gonna use the coupons on? there's nothing in there that i can't manufacture

ashen girder
#

Anyway, if you've completed the space elevator, you've literally beaten the game as it stands right now. 😛 Hopefully the story will give you things to do farther.

quaint rampart
#

unlocks, statues, liquid biofuel, making the ticket count go brr

crystal charm
#

plutonium rods make ticket count go brrrrrrrrrrr

quaint rampart
#

make a giant coffee mug collection

ashen girder
crystal charm
#

like 150k points

quaint rampart
#

yeah

#

points per ticket grows exponentially, which effectively soft-caps the tickets you can get at each stage of the game

#

my main save is into the millions of points per ticket at this stage

#

fun fact: after a very large number of tickets, the points per tickets overflows and resets

crystal charm
#

hahahaahaha, it actually has square wheels

#

i just built it

#

oh and it's so horribly bad with fuel efficiency

#

i think i'm gonna make a garage of them

#

wow, it's going to take a long, long, long time to make 4000 of this thing

tropic hawk
icy sun
#

if i have a factory where Iron Rods are going to several different stops, can I just tune the stops to receive that amount and rely on a manifold to distribute everything?

unknown.png
crystal charm
#

yes

icy sun
#

and then the remainder will go to my mall storage, in this example 15/min once the manifold has loaded up fully?

crystal charm
#

if you mean what i think you mean that is, like if x recipe uses 15 rods, and you only want 10 there, so you scale down so it only uses 10

icy sun
#

nods

crystal charm
#

yeah, pretty basic to do

#

and yes if you want a backup, you can hook in a container along the line so you'll create an overflow

tropic hawk
wintry aurora
#

How the hell do you get rid of the ad that pops up occasionally on SCIM? It wasn't there before, in February.

iron prairie
# crystal charm but what am i gonna use the coupons on? there's nothing in there that i can't ma...

Generally speaking, by the end of the game, FICSIT coupons are kind of a vanity/"look how A.W.E.S.O.M.E. my factory is" thing. It does reasonably align with player effort: more complicated items produce more tickets, so later-game factories not only have more raw resources to play with, they also are able to sink more valuable items.

To be specific, the vast majority of the time, the sink value of an item is twice the sink value of its default-recipe components. For example, with smart plating, the rotor is worth 140 points, the reinforced plate 120, so the smart plating is 2*(140+120) = 2*260 = 520 points.

#

What a lot of players will do is have the following setup:

Production->Smart Splitter->Storage->Other Assembly Lines
                  |
                   \
                    AWESOME sink```
Smart splitters are in the caterium tree, and for this use case, you set the branch leading to storage as "Any", and the branch leading to the sink as "Overflow". As such, once any dependent assembly lines plus your storage saturate, excess items go to the AWESOME sink without intervention.
ashen girder
#

Thanks doc.

wind spade
tropic hawk
slate plaza
#

how early into end game are people building these massive power facilities? all these sink overflows cost a lot of power so im thinking it should happen pretty early? im mid t6 right now

topaz hedge
#

most people build them shortly after they get automated power, or even on biomass to start collecting coupons.

prime arrow
slate plaza
pearl nexus
tame cosmos
#

It looks good

pearl nexus
fierce ruin
#

I made a setup that manufactures 120 iron plates per minute. However, when I timed the production of 120 pieces, I measured 48.6 seconds. What's up with that?

iron prairie
iron prairie
fierce ruin
iron prairie
#

... so you have synchronized constructors.

fierce ruin
#

How do I synch constructors? That shouldn't matter though. I have a Mk 2 belt taking plates from the last merger into storage. Its full as it should be. That was my goal: 120 items per minute to saturate an Mk 2 belt. Just FYI

iron prairie
#

Let's take an example of uranium fuel rods, which take 150 seconds to be built.
You start 10 manufacturers (assuming they're pre-loaded with ingredients) at T=0.
The first minute, 0 fuel rods.
The second minute, 0 fuel rods.
The third minute, 10 fuel rods.
Minute 4: 0 fuel rods
Minute 5: 1 fuel rod, at the very end of the minute.
Minute 6: 9 fuel rods, at the start of the minute.

#

If there's a T2 belt involved, that's stranger, but assuming you're not belt-limited, 120 items/min means 120 items in an average minute, not 120 items in a specific minute.

#

If you are merging everything onto a T2 belt, I can only assume there is a deeper bug somewhere, but by starting from receipt of the first item, you're skewing the statistics for any non-belt-limited production line.

fierce ruin
#

I let the stopwatch go for 3 minutes to see if the average was the issue/solution. I accumulated 445 iron plates in that time. That gives an average of 148.3 iron plates per minute. I never encountered this in Factorio, which was a much more polished game. I checked my math against some of the design sites for this game. Everything checks out. The time is off for some reason. I'm going to check Iron Rods next.

#

I do appreciate your help. Thank you.

#

@iron prairie

iron prairie
#

I would check for errors like "it was actually a T3 belt", that your timer/stopwatch is correct, etc.

thorn bane
iron prairie
#

Were items/min incorrect in general, a lot of peoples' factories would break in very obvious ways, which is why we're more inclined to believe the test setup is incorrect.

#

Another thing to check is if your installation is sound: for Steam, you would verify local game files.

sand epoch
#

Why would you be timing belts instead of just looking at the buildings to ensure ther are working at full and not starved...?

ashen girder
sand epoch
#

They arent.

ashen girder
iron prairie
#

In theory, one might catch a bug that way.
I still suspect the experimental setup is the problem, not the game.

#

Anywho, I'm wondering: who can find the production pathway which maximizes the following ratio: Types of raw resource used by this pathway / types of raw resource used by the default pathway.

Right now, I'm up to 4:1 (5:1 if you count water). Cable's default pathway is just copper ore, but if you use QW cable, fused quickwire, pure caterium, and copper alloy ingot, you can get cable made out of crude oil, iron ore, copper ore and caterium ore.

iron prairie
#

Hm. Stitched iron plate + fused wire + steel coated plate gets you to 5:1 (iron ore + copper ore + caterium ore + coal + crude oil), but I'm not sure it's possible to exceed that. Nothing other than iron and copper have long, single-ore default production chains where it's possible to plug in alts with diverse resource requirements.

frosty owl
frosty owl
iron prairie
#

HMFs bring in limestone, though, so the denominator becomes 2.

frosty owl
#

Oh, I see

ornate shoal
#

you can do stitched plates + steel screw which can add coal

#

nvm, i'm just stupid

thorn bane
#

also interesting to note that fused quickwire -> quickwire cable seems to be better than fused wire -> insulated cable

oblique hollow
#

insulated cable is terrible, best cable recipe is coated + a bit of insulated (from the resin)

#

peak cabling

unknown.png
thorn bane
#

huh? insulated uses less iron and less oil

unknown.png
oblique hollow
#

cant be right, last time i checked insulated, the efficiency was terrible even with recycled

#

coated barely beat it

#

greeny calc sorta agrees even for maximizing

unknown.png
thorn bane
#

enable all recipes and all resrouces?

unknown.png
#

coated is just straight up worse than insulated

unknown.png
oblique hollow
#

why is there a polymer byproduct. you KNOW thats unfair to waste that

thorn bane
#

well 11.11 resin is 5.55 rubber which is 1.852 oil
so its still more oil

fierce ruin
oblique hollow
#

@wind spade your calc still has some slight issues it seems? shouldnt the resin get used? i didnt do maximize

unknown.png
#

also it did.... that

unknown.png
thorn bane
#

again are you sure you have all recipes selected?

oblique hollow
#

caterium wire too or what

thorn bane
#

same with base recipes
maybe you deselcted some by accident

oblique hollow
#

still some dumb stuff happening with uranium

unknown.png
#

i did have ALL on here

thorn bane
#

can you send a link of the planner?

oblique hollow
#

the bottleneck is somehow iron now

thorn bane
#

you dont have enough water seleccted

#

but still its fucked up for me xD

unknown.png
oblique hollow
#

well thats fun

thorn bane
#

ok if you set the resources "Set from map limits" its works now for me

oblique hollow
#

also apparently iron only to cable is PEAK efficiency

thorn bane
#

yes because FUCK iron wire

#

stupid recipe

oblique hollow
#

also the bottleneck is iron AND oil it seems

thorn bane
#

oh maybe thats why insulated was worse than coated for you since insulated uses 4x as much water and you had water limited

oblique hollow
#

you cant use that much iron possibly

thorn bane
#

well all iron copper oil and quickwire are bottlenecks

#

if you mazimize i uses 100% iron 100% copper 100% caterium and 100% oil

oblique hollow
#

its a straight 50 50 split between normal iron wire and QW cable

#

leaving you with 0 for ADS

#

so thats nonesense to begin with

thorn bane
#

yes the actual planner uses less quickwire cable and more normal cable

unknown.png
oblique hollow
#

if you maximize for oil, the insulated recipes are your friend.
and for the nieche of ore efficiency: iron wire

thorn bane
#

i personally prefer insulated cable and fused wire since they reduce building count by alot

sullen cloud
oblique hollow
#

Oil efficiency: QW Cable.
Cu / Ct efficiency: Insulated
Middle ground: Coated

#

coated isnt one to carry things alone. thats for sure

fierce ruin
#

Iron Cable though 🙂