math-and-meta

[fierce ruin]

How to make the alt comes first.
Then balance output of the alt based on complexity of parts would be my assumption.

[bleak coral]

mark has a messy spreadsheet to keep track of it all, including complexity

[fierce ruin]

Mark is CLEAN though.

No mess.

[bleak coral]

to be fair, he also balance based on planned resource limits rather than current ones, so we miss stuff sometimes

[boreal quiver]

how would i go about splitting these exact numbers up when i dont have a programmable splitter?

[versed violet]

MONOFOLD

[bleak coral]

also programmable splitters don't do that

[boreal quiver]

thats fair

havent got to them yet lol

[bleak coral]

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[versed violet]

Or split into bottom:
1mk3 belt

• 1mk1 belt split 2 times (quarter) and sum to bottom one.

[fierce ruin]

I mean, getting exactly 285 isn't too difficult.

Mk3 belt plus 1/4 an mk1 belt then send the rest the other way.

[bleak coral]

oh and in defense of electric motor: it's simplier than rigour motor and doesn't use quartz, but takes less power/machines and saves enough coal/iron to make up for the copper/caterium
so it has it's uses, though to be honest saving coal and iron isn't particularly appealing

[boreal quiver]

sorry for being a dumbass but what do u mean by 1/4 mk1 belt

[bleak coral]

takes less power and machines compared to the regular recipe I mean, rigour still wins overall in that category

[minor cipher]

You wont

[versed violet]

simple. Mk1 belt to splitter. then chain to another splitter. pick last output, and loop rest to other lane

[minor cipher]

Max belt speed is 720 items a min

[versed violet]

780?

[minor cipher]

Sorry lol you right

[gray flower]

720? or 780?

[bleak coral]

oh right also that, you can't merge them all in the first place

[boreal quiver]

ok, so i need to just use multiple inputs in the first place anyway so ill just maths it

[minor cipher]

I'm not home rn

[bleak coral]

best way to deal with this is just to have two sets of machines, one for each output, anyway

[minor cipher]

Brought keyboard and mouse for steam link

Too bad I have 3000 ms latency

And constant lag spikes

Anyways

Here's an idea

[boreal quiver]

yh ok

ive halved the amount of end product i will get per min

[minor cipher]

O ok

[fierce ruin]

Split off the main line using a mk1 to force a 60/min path.
Split that path in half, return other half to main line.
Split remain half in half again to get 1/4 of a mk1 or 15/min.
Other 15/min again returns to main line.

[boreal quiver]

ah ok

so ive worked out what miners i will need and that and ill work from there on how to split it up

and ill take a ss of this so i can remember this

[fierce ruin]

Simplest way.
Orange = Mergers
Green = Mk1
Red = Mk3

Can have the line from the far left merger go vertical to keep everything in a 2-wide space if you're picky.

[boreal quiver]

so i would need more than a mk3 in the first place for the middle one cos it would be more than 240 per min? or am i not understanding and thats the issue this is solving

[fierce ruin]

Getting exactly 285 on the bottom line.

[boreal quiver]

So i had another idea

i split the 309.58 into 240 and 69.58 so i could use one 240 mk2 miner and an underclocked m1 miner which could input

i then am gonna use a manifold for splitting the 240

like this, would this work?

or would the input need to be to the left?

[boreal quiver]

so how would i go about splitting these?

[boreal quiver]

with this?

[wind spade]

manifold is fine

[bleak coral]

don't merge them

[boreal quiver]

so will it just split evenly from the iron ingot smelters?

so i should work out the amount of smelters produce the amount and connect them

[wind spade]

if you're willing to do some math, build the exact amount of smelters you need for each type of constructors and then do separate manifolds

[bleak coral]

that^

or yeah just put them all in one big manifold

[boreal quiver]

so should i have basically worked backwards from the end goal and not started at the start

[wind spade]

nah, you can start like this

[boreal quiver]

ok good

i dont wanna undo all this lmao

[wind spade]

from the other side you'd run into same issues 😛

[boreal quiver]

yh ok

so i might just keep the same amount of smelters, just run the amout i need into a merger, then redistribute for each set of contructors

[wind spade]

it's not so hard to calculate it, on the same site you can find how much the recipe makes per minute (e.g. for iron plate - https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/codex/items/iron-plate , you can see default recipe is 30/min) and then just do [amount needed] / 30 to get number of smelters needed for given set of constructors (so e.g. for rods you need 97.50/30 = 3.25 so 4 constructors, one of them is underclocked to 25%)

[boreal quiver]

yh

[wind spade]

with this approach you may need to build a few extra constructors tho (as you are not using rest of the 25% constructor), but it shouldn't be too much

[boreal quiver]

so this is what the website has layed out for me,

ah ok i understand

i see why my math wasnt adding up

i forgot the bit that goes off for iron wire

[wind spade]

looks good. You may have a look for Stitched Iron Plate alternate recipe, that can help you a lot with saving some resources for the future builds

[boreal quiver]

yh once ive got this made im gonna adventure around and look for more harddrives

how would i get .25 of a smelters output for one bit with limited space, just split it twice then merge the rest back in?

[versed violet]

0.25 might be solved with overclock if low on space

[boreal quiver]

true acc

is there a way to add an overclock on the calculator thing

cos it will also affect the rest of my factory

[versed violet]

calculator gives fractional machines already. How you build them - either 2 smelters with one clocked down to 25% or one smelter at 125%, is up to you

there is a minimal power usage saving with making another machine vs overclocking, but until you go into 2 slugs and more territory, the diference on single machine is negligible

[boreal quiver]

yh

my solution, it works so idm

[signal nimbus]

...did you all know that you can see the pod when it goes up into the sky?

[versed violet]

Try standing on it.

[just save game first]

[signal nimbus]

XD Nah, I'm good. I just didn't know if it was commonly know that it's still visible.

[boreal quiver]

yh man its sick

[boreal quiver]

alright ive finished for the day but i think i got it all sort out

just need to test it tommorow lol

[fierce ruin]

(if crafted into biomass) are 1209 leaves enough to get through first space elevator tier?

[fringe pawn]

With care and underclocking I suspect it could be done.

[fierce ruin]

ok

[vapid gorge]

if you set machines to 25% speed I believe they use 10% power? That'll help. I collected probably 10000 leaved converted to SOLID biomass to get to coal

[fierce ruin]

yep

thats the plan

[vapid gorge]

Prob worth just setting solid biomass by hand and walking away. It'll take a few minutes

[fierce ruin]

ye

[fringe pawn]

<@&387163995947270144>

[vivid current]

how do I chain these?

[vagrant lily]

Did you put iron ingots as your inputs also? Are you trying to build from a node, or from resources you have lying around?

[vivid current]

from a node trying to maximize like 6 iron nodes

not sure which tool is the best either

[vagrant lily]

IDK if there's a tool to maximize a specific node output. You can add outputs and then check the items to see the total ore going out

[vivid current]

tried the interactive map tool but not sure how I can copy paste nd drag move around objects in that one

[vagrant lily]

Clear all the inputs, as far as I can tell that's only helpful when you're manually going to provide mats

Otherwise, you need to do something like 40 screws to see a full constructor output and how much ore it would take

[tropic hawk]

you can try to use satisfactorytools.com

[vivid current]

that was a preemptive image but I am re making my entire iron factory for T6 items and just trying to maximize entire T1 items right now

[vagrant lily]

Unless there's something I'm missing, that tool doesn't tell you how to maximize the output on nodes

It does the same thing as satisfactory calculator, but with manifold vs load balancing

[tropic hawk]

no, but you can config the input raw resources

[vagrant lily]

(I could also be on drugs)

[tropic hawk]

so you can calc what resources you can yank out, then maximise that

[vivid current]

that was my initial approach too but I got a lil overwhelmed trying to load balance 50 smelters all the way to manufacturers

[vagrant lily]

Use manifold, give in

[tropic hawk]

if you think you are overloaded, this is me trying to make it so I OC as little as possible and account for all products in a Full Nuclear setup

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=9NbuW3UtDlGa8CCXCKHl

I have achieved silence

[vivid current]

maybe load balancing to try and run everything run optimally is not going to be my thing the more I think about it

[tropic hawk]

just keep power steady and you do fine

[vivid current]

but also I came back to game after like 2.5 years and my old massive factory is useless because back then we didn't have packaging and shit

[tropic hawk]

outdated never means useless...

just realized I tried to put a 1.6k output on a single mk 5 line... Ugh...

[vivid current]

poor choice of words but yes very outdated starting a new factory was easier

[thorn bane]

ok i think i found nice numbers for recycled plastic/rubber

@frosty owl

[cursive beacon]

ok

[frosty owl]

I can't check the numbers right now, but if it's right those are some pretty noice numbers 👌

[thorn bane]

no more 17.88888 refineries
and its not even a loop!!!!

[oblique hollow]

??
this is effectively the same as running a loop with 20 refineries each, then adding the 150 rubber to the final output

600 Plastic, 750 Rubber

[thorn bane]

yes i just feel like not having a loop to recycle the stuff is way easier
dont have to wait for it to fill up etc.

[oblique hollow]

well you still have to wait for the other refineries to fill up....

theres no avoiding that

whether you wait for machines next to each other to fill or for machines after each other to fill makes no difference

[valid hollow]

how much particle accelerators for 10 power plants? (none of them overclocked)

[thorn bane]

1
10 plants is 100 waste-> 25 for the 1 particle accelerator 75 for the 2 non-fissile uranium blenders

[valid hollow]

okay thanks, i didnt know how much a nuclear reactor produces

[frosty owl]

Looking for testers for the Heavy Sushi Frames setup!! (#screenshots message)
If you'd like to check out the save and have it run to see if it works or not, I'd be most appreciative 😁 If interested, feel free to "at" me

[frosty owl]

Thanks to @oblique hollow, this is how I'll fix the loading but in my nuclear plants (buffer where the generator would be). One extractor making 300/min, another making 0.6/min to top off the losses (wired on another grid to keep the main one flat~)

[oblique hollow]

0.6m3/min

[frosty owl]

Meaning the system would start losing water if I reloaded the save every 8.3 minutes or sooner ^^

[oblique hollow]

But if the pipe is at 300 m3/min then you cant replenish anything if lost....

[versed violet]

Why not mk2 pipe and full clocked nuke?

[frosty owl]

Mk1 because I was testing if the priority worked correctly

[oblique hollow]

When in doubt slap pump on lower pipe

[frosty owl]

And by looking at the extractors' lights you can tell: it does

[frosty owl]

I wanted to keep it pump-free if possible 🙄

[oblique hollow]

Well, if it work. Sure

Only when in doubt slap pump on it

[frosty owl]

Speaking of "if it works", any chance you'd be interested in giving the sushi frames save a go test?

[oblique hollow]

Ahmmmm maybe..... Not at this time of day anymore tho

[frosty owl]

Naturally, I wasn't expecting that

[tropic hawk]

because pipes are buggy when getting near their limit

[frosty owl]

Oh sorry, I missed the point about the fully clocked nuke, but I would only add to what Nemo said that: I don't trust the fuel/water consumption of clocked generators
Since I aim for a perfectly flat power graph (at least on the main grid), I'd rather save the clocking for production machines with clearer numbers

[narrow forum]

Anyone got a good setup for a max overclocked oil extractor on a pure node for rubber plastic and fuel, taking into account residual recipes and fuel generators?

[tawny swan]

Why are the best alt recipies for iron/copper both refineries 😭

10 pure iron nodes require 222.9 refineries to make ingots at maximum efficiency 😐

[frosty owl]

Could be 112 if you got ~445 shards

And a lot of GW~

[tawny swan]

😧

[frosty owl]

Yeah, not gonna lie, I think overclock is best on constructors or assemblers...

[tawny swan]

true, but still just a nuts amount of refineries going to be in this world...
10 pure iron nodes in the desert area for 1 mega factory for iron.
so thats 222.9 refineries, 37.2 water pumps for those, and 7.4 mk2 pipe lines to make use of all 10 nodes at full capacity

then you basically do the same for copper only 1.5x more since its only 15/m instead of 35/m 😭

[frosty owl]

Welp, that's how megafactories work
Refineries are often between 30 and 40% of your total buildings, by the endgame, almost a disgusting amount 😅 😆

[tawny swan]

I finished my endgame concrete factory for insulated beams, does 4800 concrete/m lol

[frosty owl]

As a small reference, I made a max nuclear setup once. I relied a lot on OC, and yet I had about 300 refineries just to smelt copper and caterium ingots to make quickwire

[tawny swan]

holy crap... welp. guess my dedicated factories are gunna be grossly large. i already calculated it out, 10 floors, allowing 1 floor per 780 iron ore/m into ingots

22.35 refineries per floor

[frosty owl]

Just ~20 iron refineries were enough though... only for the beacons

[frosty owl]

I think it can be convenient to plan for the smelting next to where you wanna use the ingots, rather than shipping the ingots

[tawny swan]

oh, the ingots actually transport to the building next to it, each floor since they produce 1448 ingot/m have 2 outputs dedicated into products. so its plates/rods/nails for the first 3 floors i setup (not the most efficient builds currently but i wanted them to at least have the 3 base items) the next 7 floors will be "hot swap" floors that i can dedicate whatever product i need the most of, the "end product" will be transported to my "advanced" factory

most likely going to end up with 5 floors of plates, 3 floors of rods, and 2 floors of screws from the iron ingots

965.3 plates per floor = 4826/m
1448 rods per floor = 4344/m
5792 screws per floor = 11584/m
Not to bad i think for only 10 pure nodes

that should basically push the rest of my builds for a bit, the worst part of all that is honestly going to be using Belt bus's to get everything to the advanced factory. unless i can find a way to get enough throughput for trains. might just make... 3-5 trains for everything to try and push 5k/m throughput on every product

[frosty owl]

I might be the one always trying to push things too far but... I'd try to make each floor handle a certain amount of ore up to the end product rather than dedicating it to the production of a single item ^^
Eg: floor takes 780/min iron ore and makes RIPs + some spare iron plates with the extra iron

[tawny swan]

thats what it does, floor 1 refineries are 780/m iron ore, which produce 1448.5 iron ingots, all 1448.5 iron ingots create plates. the next floor takes 780/m iron ore, producing another 1448.5 ingots, then all those make all rods, etc.

10 x pure nodes, 10 x 780 ore lines, 10 x product lines (each floor)

this factory ONLY handles iron though, so you can only make ingots > sheets > rods > nails with alts. it dosnt do anything past constructors

[frosty owl]

You're planning to make one kind of item each floor though, or am I understanding something wrong?

[tawny swan]

each floor is a single item yeah, so 5 floors of iron plates, which is 5 x 780 iron ore lines

[frosty owl]

Like: first floor makes ingots, next floor makes plates..

[tawny swan]

"first floor" refers to ingots + plates

"second floor" refers to ingots + rods

[frosty owl]

Ohhh, gotcha

[tawny swan]

"third floor" refers to ingots + screws

yeah each "Floor" has a 780 line of iron ore + the product its making. the refineries are just in a separate building beside it to make line work easier

i only count them as a single floor though since they are on the same level

[frosty owl]

Well, for the amount of output they have, they might be able to feed enough constructors to have 2 floors of those stacked in front of the refineries, processing all the iron

The refineries I mean

[tawny swan]

I could make one massive floor or less floors, but i figured if i split each floor into a perfect 780/m iron ore + product it would be easier to keep track of. So its always 22 refineries per floor making it easy to just copy the design/line work/pipe work

and it takes up less surface area, since its stacked. I tried to calculate the size, and its currently a 11x17 for the refineries. If i did 1 floor it was gunna be a 37x89 xD

I still gotta make the copper factory too which is even bigger and is also gunna be in the desert, didnt wana fully cover it with one massive platform

[frosty owl]

Massive platforms are boring 😒

[tawny swan]

yeah, buildings with levels/sky bridges of item transport/depth look way better

[frosty owl]

You had me at "levels" but lost me at "sky bridges" 😆

[tawny swan]

i build glass bridgeways between my buildings that only have belts inbetween 2m spaces. so its glass foundation/full window on each side

so you can watch the items cross from building to building

[frosty owl]

Very pretty, but might not be very frame-friendly :\ (this can bite back in the long run, when the base gets bigger and the frames fewer)

Ideally, you'd want to hide as many belts as you can

[tawny swan]

its definitely not frame friendly. lol, but thats fine, im ok with killing my pc. my 2080ti can cry for the beauty. beauty is pain ha

luckily the way i build them i can just swap out the foundation super easy and hide them if needed

[tender shale]

Can anyone help me? Is this steel pipe calculation wrong?

I thought it was 60 per/min for 15 steel pipes

[frosty owl]

Nope, those are the steel beams (you can check the recipes in the codex portion of the site)

[tawny swan]

3:2 ratio

30/20 on pipes, 45/30 (3:2)

[tender shale]

You right, just clicked on the wrong recipe

ty, dumb moment

[frosty owl]

Can't feel smart without those

[storm osprey]

alright... off a 120 iron ore/coal, how many factories can it do? they need 45 of each but i'm not the best at math....

2.6666(repeating)?

[wind spade]

indeed

[thorn bane]

maybe manifolding my 24 automated wiring factories wasnt the best idea xD
need 4h to fill up on stators

[wind spade]

well like 20 out of 24 will be running in 30 minutes or so 😄

[thorn bane]

and then that gets manifolded into 8 adaptive control unit
and that gets manifolded into 5.3 assembly director systems
see you in a day i guess

[frosty owl]

That feeling when you realize you made a mistake on your extra delicate setup by overproducing iron ingots meaning the system will inevitably jam if not fixed

That feeling when you calculate how long it would take for it to actually jam and the result is 20 million minutes

[bleak coral]

but what if you leave the game running for 38 years! that's why I avoid plutonium waste /s

[frosty owl]

Balancing is key to quick booting time for factories
But jokes aside, if you have a lot of the items needed for production laying around, you can help the manifold fill up by adding ISCs unloading stuff every now and then on the manifold
Eg: manifolding part X in 30 machines, each needs 10/min. You make the manifold's outputs MK1 and add 1 ISC every 13 splits to have every splitter output 60/min temporarily (60*13=780)

[frosty owl]

I doubt that's phisically possible

[thorn bane]

i actually did it the other way around xD
my factory was working at 100% and then i shut down all the miners and removed all the items so i could see the factory fill up again 🙂

[frosty owl]

Heh, that's a nice view... If it doesn't take more than 2h to actually have all machines running, that is 😆

[thorn bane]

its pretty satisfying to see a whole factory come to life like that

especially the recycled plastic/rubber loop was fun to watch

and then my nuclear production shut down, i ran out of power and was screwed xd

[frosty owl]

Ohh, I love those... Might be also due to how much I like the new piping design I use for them, but getting them to run at 100% as soon as I can is pretty damn fun :3

Referring to plubber loops

[thorn bane]

ok alumina actually has some fun math
1 sloppy alumina gives 200 solution so you need 1.333 scrap to use that solution
then you need (1.333 * 105+new water)/200 sloppy alumina to use that water lets call that y
this gives 240 * y solution so you need y * 240/180 electrode scrap that produces y * 240/180 * 105 water
but now youre in a loop where the amount of sloppy alumina depends on the electrode scrap or
(1.333*105+x_n+1)/200*240/180*105=x_n
this obviously converges and simplifies to 0.7x+98=x resulting in x=326.66
thats the water so we divide by 105 to get 3.1111 electrode scrap as our end result

[earnest glen]

Can you confirm that there Is no way to stop fuel gens unless using internal switch or a valve on the pipe?

Without cutting the cables of course

[versed violet]

You can put a pump. Ater pump make an inverted U shape on pipe.
When pump is unpowered, no fuel flows.

[earnest glen]

I'm Building a 532 fuel gen setup from 1800 oil, i have put buffers at every step in the process to make turbo fuel. Every step has a different switch, so if After many loads the buffers are empty, i just need to interact with those switches to refill the system. My only issue Is that i didn't found a way to refill the buffers of turbo fuel becouse i can't connect a switch to fuel gens. Of course for downtime there are enough accumulators to prevent a short, but of course a lot of time Is needed After to see all gens green again

[versed violet]

You can use pumps as on/off remote valves

[earnest glen]

Mmhh i saw your message but sound very complicate to implement in my setup

[versed violet]

Pump resets headlift to 0, so if you put a small incline after pump (1 conveyor stack), it will prevent fuel from flowing if pump is off.

[tawny swan]

Am I the only one that built a 50K/MWH power cell emergency switch for my entire system? Basically everything branches off a main power grid into separate grids for all subsequent factories and then an emergency break (gunna call it A1 and the main breaker A2) so I can turn the whole factory off, flip the emergency breaker then slowly turn on the entire world one grid at a time till I find the problem

[earnest glen]

I have 4 floors of gens, buffers ofc are on top

[versed violet]

Not exactly - I have a "green" powerbank that can be connected to any of my subgrids in event of catastrophic failure

[earnest glen]

Then buffers are VIPed back in the system

[tawny swan]

Nice, yeah I like using sub grids, makes it super easy to find issues and segregate power if needed. And incase of emergencies obviously be able to turn shit back on once your over 30k+/m wattage

[versed violet]

3 grids here - Red (backup) for miners/water/hypertubes. Then Black & Grey for regular factories. My powerplants run on 3 phase power 😄

[tawny swan]

Beautiful, I have a central hub with trains dispersing to all my sub factories and then the power for each individual factory has its own grid linked to primary A1 grid. So if I want to turn off all iron production (miners/pumps/plates/rods/screws) I just flip the switch to that factory. The main hub train stations just transport 1 car of materials per trip each to my storage facility so I can have “manual” stock. But the entire storage room is overflow only so it dosnt take away from auto consumptions

Once the storage for manual is full of overstock it all stays in the auto setups

I’m debating on also adding grids to the individual floors of the factories so I can turn on/off individual floors as well, but that’s a shit ton more wiring to do ha

[earnest glen]

Well, anyhow thanks for the input! I think i will live with fuel gens ramping up, even because the refill will be needed only after many many loads 🙂

[versed violet]

should I mention here, that my backup power plant (red) has a separate tiny grid (Blue, doesn't exit powerplant) that supplies water/coal to the 'red' generators? Just in case I overload the red one again.
and and and my nuclearfuel factory 1 is on Green grid (geotermal), so my nukes never stop.
and my refinery has separate coal power grid too.
soo many grids, feels like math lectures notebook.

[tawny swan]

That’s amazing, I’m not at nuclear yet but I think I’ll most likely keep everything as one grid for power production. Everything like pumps/oil are connected before the grid switch so no matter what they stay on, even when I cut the entire factory and flip backup it will auto restore all gen’s before I flip the grid back online. Definitely super important to have emergency procedures otherwise you end up with a 65k breaker that’s impossible to turn back on ha

[thorn bane]

power storages help for that

[earnest glen]

as I take power to different places with railroad, i limit myself to switches on all factories: I'm making this backup plan just in case i notice fluctuations on power production

[versed violet]

switch on input for every factory helps with calculating how much power each uses. Just flip off, note blue value, flip on again

[tawny swan]

Yeah I got 50k MWH storage currently, debating on making it 100k ha

[earnest glen]

I'm building storage for power directly in my power plant. I have double the storage for what production will be

1800 oil *should power 533,333.. gens. Actually I'm building 532 to leave something going to buffers

[thorn bane]

isnt that an insane amount?
thats like no generators for an hour

[earnest glen]

actually i got 40k MWH and i built only 1/4 of my power facility 😄

[thorn bane]

i have like 10 xD

[earnest glen]

wait i link a screen

#screenshots message

basically, apart some foundation left empty for aestethics i place them on every empty one 🙂

[tawny swan]

Yes. Yes that is an insane amount. But I want to make sure I NEVER accidentally trip my breaker and can’t bring it back online at any point. I literally just flip my main grid off, flip the emergency power switch, then flip the main grid back on and no matter what everything turns on

Essentially I could power a 100K watt system for 30 mins without any generators working at all ha

[tawny swan]

alright. this is about as small as possible i can make a 300/m alcalid sheet factory... 11x12 foundations, 100% efficiency

requires 9 power shards sadly per system.

[minor cipher]

How do I make my power shards sad

[tawny swan]

like how do you make them? or how do you make them "sad"

[minor cipher]

Lol just a joke

[opal fulcrum]

Id say theyre already sad since theyre result of squished slug

[thorn pollen]

@tawny swan thats nice

[hollow juniper]

Power slug breeder when?

[tropic hawk]

Guess which takes longer: Building 476 Nuclear Reactors, or hooking up 68 Blenders to make Non-fissible Uranium

[thorn bane]

if you include 142800m³ water then nuclear xD

[tropic hawk]

Incorrect

[fierce ruin]

What’s the best thing to use for particle accelerators

[fringe pawn]

They're the only way to make nuclear pasta, which is needed for the 4th space elevator delivery. That's their only essential use.

[fierce ruin]

Ok

[chilly vault]

i got some weird fuel prob here
so im making 960 turbo fuel per min

splited on two mk2 pipes

so the efficieny checker mod says the required output is 479.9947 and input is 480 (on each side)

and if we do the math 960*9.11 = 32000 MW and my production is 29500
yes turbo fuel

[chilly vault]

i unchecked pause and unpowered btw

and if i was missing a pipe it wouldnt say required output is 479.9947
and all generators green llight

[magic shadow]

where are you getting 9.11 btw

oh wait turbofuel nvm

but that's 4.5/min

[chilly vault]

fully overclocked makes it 9.11

[magic shadow]

overclocked generators have a weird scale

[chilly vault]

yes

but still with this scale i should be getting nearly 32000

960/9.11 = 105.3787

105.3787*303.5 = 31,982MW

not 29500

[proper scarab]

So does the water buffer help the system not stop? I keep having water stop my aluminum production. I think my numbers are right and I can’t figure out a way to not have to flush all the water every little bit

[tawny swan]

the buffer + double valve setup i use causes the water to stay 100% consistant and never backs up. allowing it to run 100% of the time

[proper scarab]

How is the double valve set up ?

[tawny swan]

headed to thhe factory now for pictures ha

[proper scarab]

I’d love my aluminum to not back up so I can make my batteries

I wanted to make a ton of them before getting into drones

[tawny swan]

you wana jump in a call? could actually stream it to make it easier

[proper scarab]

Give me a few minutes then I can

[tawny swan]

kk

[fierce ruin]

Getting rid of Nuclear Waste = forever !!!

[earnest glen]

this is the solution to your problem: #math-and-meta message

[carmine stump]

But Plutonium also creates waste that you can’t get rid of 🙂

[frosty owl]

"Fun" fact: eachachine connected to a pipe system (generators included) will require extra 5m of fluid everytime you load the game (aka "fluid disappearance on load bug")
So you probably need to overproduce more to keep you generators running all the time

[wary crown]

The idea is disposing of it without using it via the awesome sink

[pallid pond]

https://www.reddit.com/r/satisfactory/comments/ph878m/i_have_calculated_theoretical_maximum_of_coupon/
Accidentally submitted to the wrong subreddit 😦

[upbeat tide]

Soo my nuclear plant floor itself is slowly in progress. Forgot how annoying it is to lay piping for 252 reactors 😦

[limpid hill]

do i go all in on crystal oscillators or not im not sure now :c

[upbeat tide]

Depends, what you want to use them for?

[fringe pawn]

I believe crystal oscillators can be removed from the supply chain entirely. Though you'll want some so you can build an explorer.

[upbeat tide]

Not if your making max nuclear rods 🙂 like me

[fringe pawn]

It locks you into a particular RCU alt as well which doesn't look particularly compelling. But not terrible, either.

Otherwise rigour motors are technically very resource efficient, but not many are so constrained it should be a consideration versus the default recipe. There is a good argument for crystal computers, which could drastically increase your oscillator needs.

I do think caterium computers are better, though

[wind spade]

actually my tool thinks that most resource efficient way to do motors is combine both recipes 🤔 https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=gdtmbR6zKdu8YEzYqLpN

I wonder why that is

[fringe pawn]

Neo voice
Whoa.

[upbeat tide]

I have a bit of spare crystal oscillators from m nuclear setup and plan to toss that at RCU’s

[tropic hawk]

Note to anyone doing massive Nuclear power: If you set all your water gens on one circuit, then a switch before connecting to the main grid, you can set it up to SCRAM if something goes wrong.

(worth to google the history of what SCRAM means)

[upbeat tide]

Heh its like you found my screens in #screenshots

And thats my exact plan, isolated power grid section for the water extractor zone

[tropic hawk]

and get a backup supply of power enough to run just the water extractors themselves on a seperate circuit

[upbeat tide]

Thats already done 🙂

[tropic hawk]

I just found this out two days ago, trying in vain to find ways to setup a SCRAM system

[upbeat tide]

Before I began this I have a 2400m3 TF factory doing its thing as main supply and a few backup coal gens

Mostly burning coke excess from my aluminum plant

Ny fuel gen field

[tropic hawk]

nice. im partway though my max nuclear setup.

[upbeat tide]

Nice mine is on the east coast for reference

[tropic hawk]

bottom level is my Nuclear Reactors, 476 of them, and the top level is the infrastructure. off to the side there is the P.O.W.E.R or PlutOnium Waste Emergency Recepticle.

Mine is at the Northwest corner, as it is barely not outside the kill zone

[upbeat tide]

252 reactors is max for just nuclear rods

[tropic hawk]

unless you do plutonium rods

and some alt recipies

[upbeat tide]

Ah true havent properly calculated plut yet

[tropic hawk]

here...

[upbeat tide]

One step at a time

This is my encased uranium cell zone

[tropic hawk]

I got a small database for this crap

[upbeat tide]

Yea same

[tropic hawk]

if you DM your email, I can send it to you as a .xlsx

I think

I spent a lot of time over the summer making it

[upbeat tide]

I usually use Greeny’s tool anong with hand notes

[tropic hawk]

I used that and SCIM for data and trees, then lots of tables in excel

[upbeat tide]

Final uranium rod processing down here

Non-radiation intermediates are not down there tho

That long building has that encased uranium cell setup, then final uranium rods and not shown here is the reactors them selves off shore

[tropic hawk]

heh, here I am doing it all in one 'black box'

[upbeat tide]

This is another sector, max aluminum ingot factory

[earnest glen]

nice, have a look at mine (still in construction) #screenshots message

[upbeat tide]

Whats that for? Nice structure!

[earnest glen]

528 fuel gens on turbo f

[upbeat tide]

Ah nice

[earnest glen]

wait i'll show you the inside

here we go #screenshots

[upbeat tide]

Yup added some of my own from the archives

Yours looks great!

[earnest glen]

yours is huge 😅 thank you anyway 🙂 i think i posted also a screen at night with the light system on

[upbeat tide]

One of mine is from the seafloor

Looking up at the main fuel gen structure

[earnest glen]

i put foundation also down to the bottom ahah

[upbeat tide]

Its huge but remarkably simple

[earnest glen]

i'm building 4 identical buildings, down to the conveyor poles positions -.-

[upbeat tide]

Will look even better with the new roof parts coming in U5

[earnest glen]

i know right?!?!? 😄

[upbeat tide]

Im looking forward most to the I beams. Have plans for layered roof mounted conveyor routes

[earnest glen]

I decided to move from hidden basement to sidewalks Just because of the update

So many things... And zoop!

[upbeat tide]

I want to add catwalks over the refineries here

This is one of four of my recycled loop floors

Eh im already addicted to Smart! So Zoop is nice but not a full replacement

[calm gale]

imo smart will always be 1000000x better

[earnest glen]

I've made everything piece by piece, call me maniac

[upbeat tide]

Done that before still have to do it cuz Smart! Still doesnt like pipes

[wind spade]

so guys I need help to figure out something lol.

I'm parsing data for SF and I'm looking for water consumption for generators. I found that it's done by having SupplementalResource and SupplementalToPowerRatio variables. In the resource, it's water (both for coal and for nuclear) and in the ratio, it's 10 for coal gens and 2 for nuclear gens.

Now I'm trying to make sense of how that works.
Coal gens make 75 MW, need 45 water/min and have a ratio of 10
Nuclear gens make 2500 MW, need 300 water/min and have a ratio of 2

What's the formula to figure out how much water/min a gen needs if I know the power it makes and the ratio? 🤔 I can't seem to figure this out

[cosmic urchin]

im not sure but im going to figure it out experimentally if nobody answers in time

[wind spade]

I think I may have figured it out now lol

(as it always happen when you're stuck at something for hours and then decide to ask someone else for help)

[cosmic urchin]

ikr

[wind spade]

basically, a coal gen produces 75 MW over 60 seconds, so 75*60. Now you multiply it with the ratio (10) and you'll get 45000, which is how much water/min you need in liters (which are internally used by the game)
for nuclear gen it's 2500*60*2 and you'll get 300,000, which again is water/min in liters 🙂

[cosmic urchin]

what units are displayed in game?

[wind spade]

ingame it's m^3

[cosmic urchin]

does the water usage scale linearly with power use?

[wind spade]

yeah. If your plant produces double power, it needs double water

(so any overclocking and underclocking for power plants are only for space purposes, there's no other advantage/disadvantage)

[cosmic urchin]

so do you think you figured it out or do you know you figured it out

[wind spade]

well the formula above seems to work for both, though I have no way to validate it's the correct one, since there's no other gen that requires secondary resource 🙂

[cosmic urchin]

coal gens dont seem to vary in their power generation they output constant 75MW

so for coal it always uses 15 coal per minute and 45m^3 of water per minute

[wind spade]

yeah, unless you overclock it 😉

that's what I was talking about when answering if water scales to power production

[cosmic urchin]

well this is the water usage for power produced from 0MW to 150MW @wind spade

[wind spade]

I know the formula of that 🙂

[cosmic urchin]

whats the actual formula?

[wind spade]

[water required] = [water required at 100%] * [power production coefficient]
coefficient is how much more power are you making over 100%

[cosmic urchin]

so essentially the "clock" speed? for the coefficient

[wind spade]

power formula is:
[power produced] = [power produced at 100%] * ([clock speed / 100] ^ (1/[oc coefficient]))
oc coefficient is 1.3 for all buildings but nuclear power plant

[wind spade]

no, see above

[cosmic urchin]

power produced=power production coefficient?

[wind spade]

no

power produced is power produced 😄
power production coefficient is [power produced] / [power produced at 100%]

[cosmic urchin]

well here is those two graphs compared

orange calculated through your formula and mine experimental

[wind spade]

then you wrote the formula badly, since orange shouldn't be linear

[cosmic urchin]

i basically did (Power_Produced/Power_100%)*45=Water_Required

[wind spade]

e.g. for coal gen it's:
75 * [oc]^(1/1.3) for produced power, so for 100% it's 75 * 1^(1/1.3) and for 250% it's 75 * 2.5^(1/1.3)

[cosmic urchin]

oh shit i forgot about how "target power" means nothing sorry

vs produced power

[wind spade]

also the "formula" I'm using was provided by devs, so no need to experimentally validate it 😉

[cosmic urchin]

i know but im bored

and for whatever strange reason i like using excel

there my graph lust is satisfied

[glacial hemlock]

See wiki 'clock speed' page for more info

[cosmic urchin]

what for?

[thorn bane]

yoooooooooo thats awesome
@frosty owl guess i was right with ~35 TPR rockets for max points

[frosty owl]

I still like the rockets the most

[thorn bane]

too bad no one will ever build this because the pc required to run that doesnt even exist yet

[bleak coral]

if you used some of the plutonium instead of making fuel could you get more points to sink? A few plut reactors + storage can last a really really long time.

oh also there's a formula for finding the best clock speeds for a given set of nodes on the wiki, which you could use for any resources that aren't getting fully used: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Clock_speed#Clock_speed_for_miners_and_extractors

[thorn bane]

anyone remember what the limiting factor for the old max 156 turbomotors in U3 was?

[fringe pawn]

I would guess bauxite based on the cooling system and RCU requirement for the base recipe, then perhaps coal for limiting the second recipe. Disclaimer, I didn't own the game during U3.

[thorn bane]

i was looking at amelies save game recently and saw that she was using copper alloy and no iron wire but still producing the max 156 turbomotors

[fringe pawn]

I recall hearing the map had much less oil before? But turbo motors don't need much oil. Quartz and caterium also loom as possibilities.

[thorn bane]

just realized greenys tool still works with update 3: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=ysCvDEeI5YWYvpudW4cA seems like you are hard capped on bauxite so you can be pretty inefficient with the other materials

[fringe pawn]

Ooh, good catch

Interesting that it only uses the one recipe

[thorn bane]

which one? sloppy alumina was added in update 4

[fringe pawn]

For the turbo motors themselves, I mean. Only turbo rigour, and no default.

[thorn bane]

ok this is actually insane
In U3 max points needed 4506 machines
In U4 its 31384 machines

[fringe pawn]

With 1% clocks on everything?

[thorn bane]

nope

[fringe pawn]

I saw the link to Reddit above but didn't look, is that the same max points calculation as the one a couple months ago?

#math-and-meta message

[thorn bane]

roughly
the old one is 38 TPR/267 ADS the new one is ~35 TPR/272 ADS

but ye that doesnt change much still uses >6500 iron wire which is the TOTAL amount of machines you needed in U3
like wtf why is this a thing

[fringe pawn]

Heh heh, nice

[thorn bane]

mark pls give alt recipes that are building efficient not stupid iron wire that is worse than default (22.5 instead of 30)

[fringe pawn]

And we've still got an unused SAM, perhaps more uses for nitrogen coming, and perhaps more ore from pure nodes.

I can easily see 100k machines for max points in the future.

[thorn bane]

i wonder if they have internal data showing how many resources people use
im pretty sure theres not a single person that uses 90% efficiently just because of fps issues

[fringe pawn]

Even with smart and unlimited FPS by magic, full planet utilization would take an insane amount of time

[thorn bane]

its not even the time imo, you can build on a save for 2000 hours and get alot of stuff done
its just the fact that you will have 1fps while playing even on the most insane pc

[fringe pawn]

2000 hours is 38.4 hours for 52 weeks. I'm pretty sure most people aren't doing that.

Though a lot of playtimes are probably inflated by leaving the game running while AFK

[thorn bane]

yes ofcourse for the majority there is no point in optimizing the game because they quit before it becomes relevant
its still kinda sad though that they basically removed the high endgame by changing the meta from 3k machines to 30k machines

[fringe pawn]

I wouldn't say there's no point in optimizing. That benefits all players in different ways.

[thorn bane]

imo the best alt recipes should be hard to implement like recycled rubber/plastic not just build 6500 iron wire and youre optimal

[thorn bane]

gpu wise? sure everyone gets that. but cpu wise, alot of people dont get to the point where that is relevant

[fringe pawn]

Well, CPU optimization is a tricky subject. Steam hardware survey mentions 40% are still on quad cores. So when 40% of your players are topping out on a 7700K at best, and that's a tricky spot.

Plus those older and/or lower tier CPUs have less cache and other constraints.

[thorn bane]

i mean the game is fine for the first 100h its more the fact that there are so many raw materials yet most machines use only <100 of them. That ultimately results in alot of machines required if you want to be 100% efficient. So either remove some nodes or make alt recipes more efficient.

[fringe pawn]

Removing nodes might just anger a lot of people who don't want to have trains running all over the map.

[thorn bane]

ye i guess by having 4 different start locations and alot of different regions you are kinda locked into alot of maximum possible resources

i guess beeing gated behind a rare resource like bauxite is kinda nice because you can choose fps efficient recipes for all the other resources

just make the new optimal sink point item gated by SAM ore xd

[fringe pawn]

That seems like a straightforward addition to the game. 5th tier of space elevator parts use existing parts, plus new SAM stuff.

[frosty pawn]

bruh this is not the time for optimisation. the game is in really heavy development. if they optimise now it will be a complete waste of time because it will be un-optimised again in a month

[thorn bane]

im not saying optimize the game im saying change the alt recipes/the sink meta so we go back to U3 numbers

[frosty pawn]

that has a similar problem. there is still a lot more stuff that hasnt even been thought of regarding machines and recipes. there will be a point in the future when the devs look at ALL the recipes in the game and figure out what numbers need to be adjusted

[fringe pawn]

Yeah, they have said many times that a lot of the numbers in the game don't make sense right now. ANd will continue to look weird or feel bad until the game is finished.

[frosty pawn]

every time the numbers change, it's a big deal that will make pretty much everyone unhappy

it should be done as infrequently as possible

[fringe pawn]

Pretty much. It's a hard balancing act. Nobody should necessarily expect smooth transitions all the way through early access to 1.0. But you can't make the ride too bumpy, either.

[thorn bane]

ye ofc im just saying right now endgame is unplayable

[frosty pawn]

i'm sure there is a blackboard somewhere at coffeestain hq with new numbers for all the recipes but they dont wanna put them in yet because it will ruin everyone's factories

[fringe pawn]

If you define endgame as using the entire planet's resources. 🤷

[thorn bane]

well thats what it was last update thats what im comparing it to

maybe super tryhard endgame is a better term xD

[wind spade]

what do you want to change? alt recipes seem pretty balanced to me. There's one optimised for raw resources, one for power, one for complexity, etc.

every recipe brings advantages and disadvantages

[fringe pawn]

I don't think there are many people excited to use the whole planet. Devs probably keep them in mind. But for me, I built a factory that makes 20/20/5/5 of the final space elevator parts, and that was good enough. Bigger numbers don't necessarily excite me, you're just building the same thing over and over at some point.

[thorn bane]

i dont want the disadvantage to be bad fps like iron wire

[frosty pawn]

last update they added the blender which kind of sits in the middle of the road of the current progression (our endgame is not the same as 1.0 endgame) so it changed things a lot already, making aluminium production better was already on the roadmap so it was a good time to change all of that

i'm sure the thing with iron wire is on a list somewhere and they will do it when its a good time to do it

[wind spade]

fps is relative though. Some people lose fps when they build 5 buildings and some have 120 fps with thousands of objects. The game will be optimised further eventually

[thorn bane]

yes but right now the amount of machines required for 100% efficient is 10x more than last update

[wind spade]

iron wire just trades more common resources for larger footprint. You don't have to use it

in U3 iron wire was super OP

I'm glad they changed it

[thorn bane]

point is it wasnt required for maximum turbomotors

[fringe pawn]

The 20/20/5/5 factory I built is under 2000 machines. I really don't see an issue.

[wind spade]

maximum turbomotors isn't required for playing the game 🤷‍♂️

[thorn bane]

i just think in U3 alot more people were going for max sink points because it was realistical
in U4 there is no way you go for max points

[fringe pawn]

But why is that a problem?

[thorn bane]

because i like going for the optimal strategy

and hate beeing limited by fps

[fringe pawn]

"Optimal?"

[wind spade]

for any arbitrary goal you make, you'll hit some obstacles that the game present, developers just can't make all of them go away. There will always be a goal that's impossible/hard to reach, due to the nature of said goal. Balance of recipes should be done in terms of normal playthrough, not based on random arbitrary goal

[frosty pawn]

i think the problem is that you want a long term goal that will take a long time to accomplish but make you feel good about all the time you put in. unfortunately the game doesnt have an ending yet, so you're gonna have to figure out that goal on your own for now

[thorn bane]

yes thats my point, in U3 going for maximum awesome sink points was reasonable

[wind spade]

my/our point is that devs didn't make the change so that max points is unreasonable. They made the change so that the alt recipe isn't "100% use this without exception", but rather is "it's a tradeoff, uses less resources, but more space". They did that to most of the recipes, which I think is great approach. They are alternate recipes, not better recipes

[frosty pawn]

a simple goal you can explain in a few words, yes. maybe your new goal might be a little more complicated to put into words, but for me the game is fun because i get to figure out small-scale optimisations for layout of machines and stuff. i don't play with a long-term target in mind so i dunno what i can suggest to make you happy

[fringe pawn]

I would guess my 7700hq/1060 MaxQ laptop would do okay if I doubled my build by using the other side of the map. So performance as it is now is acceptable, IMO.

[upbeat tide]

Oof maxq gpu’s those are...meh

[fringe pawn]

"Meh" is an apt description for it. I got the machine with a scratch and dent discount, so all in all I can't complain. Dell outlet FTW

[upbeat tide]

Oh a Dell laptop im sorry

[fringe pawn]

Hm? Sure, I'd love a 5950x and 3090 to power one of those 48" 4k 120Hz OLEDs, or even an 8k 60Hz TV for some games where refresh rate isn't so noticeable. But everything comes down to price. I'd buy the same machine, given the option. You can't get a 3050 machine for what I paid. 🤷

Though you might be able to get an open box/scratch dent 3050 machine in the $800 range.

[upbeat tide]

I mean Dell’s are not exactly simple to solve hardware issues in general

[fringe pawn]

"Issues?"

I definitely wouldn't recommend Razer laptops, those things are known to have hilarious amounts of problems

Though I respect the ambition of their designs

[torpid robin]

easy solution. build your own pc

[upbeat tide]

Yea there are worse for sure. Usual issues tie to bad thermal sinks in the laptop making it run pretty much overheated alot of the time

[fringe pawn]

Link me a $900 build that includes a monitor. That's the starting point of 3050 laptops.

[upbeat tide]

3050 honestly is a near useless gpu, especially the laptop ones. Yea it sucks price wise

[fringe pawn]

And yet here I am able to play anything I want on my 1060 MaxQ. There are unquestionably better gaming experiences out there, but they come with a cost

As to over heating, make them fix it. Dell actually will. Razer, on the other hand....

[torpid robin]

yea well i wont argue that point. sure pcs arent cheap. but they come with plenty of benefits

like fixing a laptop is ass

parts can be used through multiple pcs

[fringe pawn]

That's great for the fractional percent of people doing that.

[torpid robin]

dont get me wrong though. i do understand the pros of a laptop too

[fringe pawn]

Just the same as working on your own car, you can choose where to invest time and knowhow

[torpid robin]

a car is a bit more complex than a pc though lol

[fringe pawn]

Oil changes, air filter changes and many other tasks aren't complicated. And if you have an electric car, things are even easier.

Sure, you're not going to open an engine block to fix a bent rod, but I also bet you're not going to replace capacitors on a motherboard.

And if you are going to do either one of those things, that's really awesome. But recognize yourself as being exceptional at that point.

Specific to the 3050 and 3050Ti, Nvidia really are huge jerks for the 4GB of VRAM.

Really, their VRAM allocations in general

[wind spade]

shouldn't this go to #off-topic-tech ? 🤔

[fringe pawn]

Probably now, it all originally related to lag discussions. I still think most people would probably be able to play Satis and most games fine on those cheap 3050 laptops.

[empty glade]

You can try the Geforce NOW service... you offload graphics processing to the cloud. I tried linking, but the link was removed by the mod bot.

[upbeat tide]

Honestly its CPU that this game and RAM it eats more than GPU

[fringe pawn]

I do need to try Geforce now, just for the sake of it. I think streaming combined with additional local storage and processing create a compelling future. Store all of the Satisfactory assets locally, for instead, but outsource as much of the calcs as possible. Streaming companies will probably try to use some sort of processing scheduling protocol to make you do as much processing locally as possible.

[empty glade]

I think it's everything... I think they run the game on their server and stream the video

[upbeat tide]

Well, Stadia and other services dont exactly have a good track record

[fringe pawn]

The story of Stadia's now shuttered inhouse game development is a nice microcosm of Google's penchant for killing things. Stay away, CSS!

[upbeat tide]

I have only used Steam remote gaming, have never used Geforce now or similar

[upbeat tide]

Google’s track record of releasing bad new products not named Google Search, Gmail, or Youtube is kinda crazy

[fringe pawn]

I miss old Youtube.

[opal fulcrum]

They do. If you play through steam you need to sort steam guard out and everything as its a new device. You just pick the closest server, link up and play like youve got a high end pc

[upbeat tide]

At least Geforce Now has less lag problems that Stadia has. Still it usually requires a good intranet circuit and best without a data cap. Not alot of ISP’s even offer the latter as an option

Last I checked

[empty glade]

Free trial as well, or just stick with 1h sessions

[opal fulcrum]

I just used to use the 1 hour sessions, log out at 59 mins then jump back on lol

[fierce ruin]

Hello, I hope someone can help me with this.
I made an Oil factory that can hold 33.333.. fuel generators, I set 33.
But despite adding pumps and valves, power still fluctuates a lot. Will it eventually fix once enough fuel is made?

Every three fuel generators are separated, each one has a mk2 pump, and a valve set to 36m3

[earnest glen]

Remove the limit from the valve

If not at full pressure all the time, the valve will let through less then you imagine

[fringe pawn]

Due to a bug, every time you load the save file, you'll also lose 5 m/3 from each generator. So that will cause a hiccup.

[earnest glen]

Also, be sure to have enough capacity in you piping for the amount of fuel you are making

About the mentioned bug stay away from max capacity mk2 pipe. Use buffers at the end of machines as workaround for load bug

For some saves you can rely on extra flow from the buffers for missing fluid. Best option anyway is to have an array of capacitors so if you are using full power you can rely on them until production get back to normal

[fierce ruin]

I removed the valves and yeah it does look like the flow is slowly turning normal now

Appreciate the help

[bleak coral]

pumps only matter for vertical movement, if you already have one adding enough headlift the rest aren't needed and in fact I've had issues with flow equalizing when I had pumps in between fuel generators in a manifold (it was a tower). Also clock speeds aren't linear for generators, though that should only affect one so obviously there's more going on there. You can read up on how the clock speeds for generators work here: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Clock_speed#Clock_speed_for_power_generators

[earnest glen]

Great 👌

[eternal slate]

I had put some water in pipeline for nitric acid in nuclear power setup and keep recycling it over and over again.
This explains why it was empty after a while (and jamming the recyling part for nuclear power plant)

[frosty pawn]

you can put a buffer at the end of the fuel line that will take your extra fuel. when you save and quit there should be some extra fuel in there. when you load, you lose 5m^3 in each generator but the fuel line will start to fill up from both ends until all the generators are full and then the buffer will start to take the extra again.

power storage is always good to have because most of the time you make extra power which can fill it up and then you have something to save you from emergencies later

[earnest glen]

Use VIP system in recycled loops so It never stop

[oblique hollow]

You cant just drop "VIP" and then not attach an image or a link

Most probably never heard of the VIP junction

[earnest glen]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/ookl0c/psa_variable_input_priority_vip_for_pipes_exist/

[earnest glen]

Yes you're right Sensei 😅

[frosty owl]

I approve of this idea

[frosty owl]

Right, one should at least add " "

[frosty owl]

Extra train to "double" throughout per freight or extra cars to reduce throughput on each freight?
Which can save in train cars more?

[upbeat tide]

Double trains can work but if on same line can cause issues if the timings start to get too tight. Aka trains arriving on top of one another

[frosty owl]

I don't bother about timings because U5 :P

[thorn bane]

at worst that means youre capped by the 48 stacks of the train station which is already alot better than the 32 from a train

[frosty owl]

I figure 2 trains docking one after the other would still do the job fine, so long you accounted for unloading times correctly

[upbeat tide]

Well, two trains trying to dock at once I would expect to cause errors

I would try to time it so one departs from one end of the line and other from the other reducing timing chance issues

[frosty owl]

Yeah, but in the long term they would end up behind one another anyway (before U5)

[upbeat tide]

Yea most likely

[thorn bane]

huh why? wont they stay at the same distance? if its the same track

[upbeat tide]

Not necessarially. Slight variance in speed up/down time etc

[frosty owl]

And errors in routing when overlapping with another train on a track split

[upbeat tide]

Or just freeze outright. I had a few trains just decide to not work without a manual reset.

[thorn bane]

yes but those happen to both trains so on average the should stay the same distance right? like ofcourse it varries but they wont eventually be on top of each other

[upbeat tide]

I have no idea how long it would take but yea sooner or later they will be on top of each other regularlly

[fierce ruin]

Also, I checked the pump stuff today and yeah, having so many of them actually choked the pipes a LOT, so removing them made the flow regulate even faster, lmao

Everything's running well, now I just gotta do this 3 more times

[bleak coral]

Sweet, glad you got it worked out!

[wet yacht]

I'm confused on when you need a water pump? When pumping uphill?

[indigo vigil]

Most machines have 10m of headlift, meaning you can move fluids 10m higher than their source before you need a pump to move it higher. If you're not moving to a higher altitude, then pumps have no use outside of acting as a 1-way valve.

[bleak coral]

@thorn bane btw I seen you talk about how much more complicated and big max points is now compared to U3, and I just thought I'd add that we have more than twice the maximum points for just the top point items, and I'm not sure anyone showed as complete a solve which included power and most of the map (cause a lot of stuff was leftover with 156 turbo motors since it was so bottlenecked by bauxite)

[frosty owl]

And yet nobody made the meta I really seek: most points with least machines

[frosty pawn]

or most points you can get from 100MW

[thorn bane]

any chance you could run that with different limits on building count?

[bleak coral]

Out of curiosity though I made a set of plans in the calculator to compare U3 to U4 for equivalent points just using the best points item, so here they are:
156 with nuke power from U3: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=LXuKAnMN8nAwGcMyMRrj
About equilivent points with power from U4: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=tIWQCFGjCrK2rVp7mlFz

Couple things: U4 has about 1 million more points from the plut rods, not that different though, and I chose ADS over rockets cause you don't need as many resources for ADS, not sure if it's more ore less simple to make though

First glance it does take about 2x the amount of power for U4, which means 2x the amount of nukes + plutonium processing, so that's way bigger

Uses a decent amount more foundries and refineries, but about 2x as much manufacturers and more than 2x as many assemblers

and it uses over 7000 constructors vs the 1300ish contrustors from U3 😳

[thorn bane]

4759 iron wire 🙂

[bleak coral]

should I turn off iron wire and see what happens?

lol I turned off wire and iron wire and now it's down to 929ish constructors 😆

[thorn bane]

i mean if you go for machine efficient builds im sure there is alot of things you can change

but yeah f iron wire

[bleak coral]

power usage actually went up though

[frosty owl]

Nobody will take bolted recipes away from me. Not even Greeny

[bleak coral]

oh yeah we just traded the constructors for assemblers, cause it went from 3700ish assemblers to about 5600

[frosty owl]

That's still a FPS save, if constructors still have more moving parts than assemblers like they used to

[frosty owl]

@thorn bane Using an item as a "distancer" to take space on belts is really interesting... So much so that I need to stop thinking about it, or I'll never go to sleep~
Tldr: will check the numbers and comment in a few hours, feel free to leave any nerdy/mathy detail, I'll gladly jump onto them later

[thorn bane]

same dude its 8am

[pallid pond]

you can play here it is very similar or the same https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=YjQsTqY4b36SyFGgmQ7M

[thorn bane]

cant realy limit buildings there

[thorn bane]

#screenshots message
@frosty owl ok both manufacturers are both still working 12h in.
The concrete buffer one seems to have 9 extra modular frames for some reason so that might jam eventaully but i have no idea why.
when i looked at it its always 3 pipes 1 frame but i guess something must have broken.
This save is also only running at 40 fps so i guess something could have happened with mk 5 belts.

[autumn blade]

How many nuclear plants can I sustain if I'm making 9 nuclear fuel rods a minute?

[oblique hollow]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Nuclear_Power_Plant

0,2 /min needed

[autumn blade]

40

Got it

[thorn bane]

9/0.2=45

[autumn blade]

Close enough, thanks bb <3

[young rover]

Overclocked at 250% its 0.4 uranium bar or 0.2 plutonium ones… assuming you do 9 uranium ones you can sustain 22.5 reactors

[wind spade]

Or don't overclock

[graceful elbow]

Found out the website i was using was out of date

[tropic hawk]

rip

[graceful elbow]

Old ratios it seems lol

Funny its not updated or maintained at all

Also i am not good at math but love the math aspects of factory games like this lol

[fringe pawn]

Which website was out of date?

[graceful elbow]

Satisfactory planner

Ill grab the URL later

I just googled it so i dont think its pinned or was recommended here

[fringe pawn]

I stick to greeny and Anthor's tools (see pin).

Both are still active, so it also makes me more confident their tools will be updated for U5.

[tropic hawk]

same here, and I really hope recipies and batches don't change very much, as I am about halfway through my full nuke setup

[fringe pawn]

I don't recall seeing Anthor here much, but when I asked a SCIM question on his server, he answered the same day.

(I didn't direct the question to him (?) specifically)

[frosty owl]

Wow
I don't quite get how did you manage to get the screws' ratio right
I'd really love to check out the save, if possible! :D

[thorn bane]

send you a dm
its just another 4:1 merger
20 screws merged with 1 frame 1 beam and 3 pipes
so its 4 screws 1 item 4 screws 1 item etc.
i used the concrete merging again to merge 3 concrete to 1 of the other stuff
that merged with screews for 4:3:1 and then smart split out the concrete

[upbeat tide]

Steel screw id guess

[thorn bane]

all machines are hooked up to full ISCs of the screws etc.

i also replaced some belts with mk4 because i think it makes it more stable

with mk5 i was getting merges that were not left right left right

but yeah youre actually kinda limibted by belt speeeds because the manufacturer needs 250/min in total and you have 150 extra concrete for filtering so youre sitting at 400/min

[fierce ruin]

heyyy need help with some odd position on satisfactory

there is an alt prod for screws where its 12.5....Its messy but i got it to 30/3 = 10 and then the middle one 10/2 and then 5/2 = 2.5 and keeping the others as ten

is the the best efficient way to build this layout is there a better one or way to do so?

i can send pictures just a lot of splitters and mergers lol it takes a lot of space.

[lusty oxide]

was that your password?

[pulsar idol]

no, i split my bottle of water on my keyboard

[lusty oxide]

lol

[pulsar idol]

and i was cleaning it not knowing i was typing and sent that

[urban roost]

Hey all. I know satisfactory-calculator is great and all but what I found myself doing is adjusting the output items rate manually bit by bit to match the resource that I have in a certain area. Would you guys be interested in an optimizer program where you set "what you have", "what you must have" and a priority list of what to do with the rest?

I am also posting here in case I missed some features of the satisfactory-calculator

or if this exists already

[fringe pawn]

greeny's tool (see pins) may do what you want.

[dark star]

can i just commend Greeny for his excellent production calculator and especially the visualization. A lot cleaner and more clear than the other tools i found

[upbeat tide]

^^ Greeny’s calc is the gold standard for this game imo

In terms of tools

[tough stratus]

I'd add that satisfactory's calculator might make more if you're just starting since it includes smaller details, but it quickly becomes impossible to follow for meaningful construction beyond tier 4. At that point greeny's tools are unquestionably better.

[earnest glen]

i'm the only maniac that do all the math on paper?

[wind spade]

I doubt you're the only one, but it's always nice to at least validate your math against automated tool 🤷‍♂️

[cosmic urchin]

your not alone 😉 partially because i cant remember numbers at all

[earnest glen]

I like the hard-way validation, all-in bet: build massive things and hope for green lights everywhere ahhah

actually even if is not the best, I use to do the same at work when programming.. my commit interval is so spaced ehehe

[frosty owl]

I don't quite get what's your issue
Finding a good way to arrange the machines?

[earnest glen]

i got curious, so I visited your site. Thats a cool work! Also took the chance to have a look behind the scenes, is written in Angular, isn't it?

[wind spade]

yeah, angularJS, not ngx

[cosmic urchin]

is angular its own language?

[wind spade]

no, angular is a library for javascript, there's two angulars - AngularJS, which is the original version, written in javascript; and Angular (ngx), which is written in Typescript (a language compiled to Javascript, but with extra features and typechecks) and it's newer and more advanced

[cosmic urchin]

so ultimately its java

[wind spade]

no. javascript isn't java, those are completely different languages

[cosmic urchin]

oh right

[wind spade]

java is a compiled language that compiles to different file format (.jar), which is then executed by java executable installed on target machine, is used pretty much everywhere, often also smart electronics, fridges, washing machines, etc.

javascript is a non-compiled language that runs in your browser, is used on pretty much every site and can make dynamic websites

[cosmic urchin]

which is why its called javascript. Since its just a scripting language i guess where you immediately run a script

[wind spade]

yeah. The name is similar just because javascript's name comes from Netscape's support of java applets within it's browser 🙂

[cosmic urchin]

you mean you can nest java programs in javascript?

[wind spade]

no, it's just that java stuff was supported to run in browsers and they wanted to make a language that can do that without java, so they made javascript, but the two languages are not very similar otherwise and can't be replaced with each other

[cosmic urchin]

so basically similar capabilities different languages

[wind spade]

again, not really. javascript can only run in browser (although nowdays it can also run on server), while java can only run where java runner is installed (but it can be any pc, and almost any electronic)

[cosmic urchin]

i meant within there respective environments

[wind spade]

well similar capabilities in that case would mean... can run as any other language can 😄

[floral ice]

How do I open the in-game calculator?

[strange stump]

N

[magic shadow]

beware it has never heard of BEDMAS

[calm gale]

ok this makes no sense using 90 iron would get me 8 rotor per min normally but using cast screw shows i need 25 iron for the screws but 65 left for rods which is too much so wat am i missing

[thorn bane]

you need 50 for screws and 40 for rods

4x cast screw gives 200 screws = 8 rotors

[calm gale]

except the 4x cast is only 25 iron per min

[thorn bane]

4x 12.5 is 50

[calm gale]

ok im so off my rocker today

[oblique hollow]

use the ingame calculator. PLEASE

or any calc for that matter

[calm gale]

sry

[thorn bane]

i made a list off all the items my safegame has and calculated the building cost to see what i should have in my inventory
interesting facts:
apparently i use a lot of motors so i should carry 4 stacks
i actually use more reinforced iron plates than iron plates so i really shouldnt carry 2 stacks of iron plates
mk5 belts are used a lot so 9 sheets
so are pipes so 5 stacks of copper sheets
as expected i build a lot of foundations so 7 stacks
2 stacks of the steel pipes and beams
1 stack of wire is more than enough
rubber is surprisingly used in low quantities so i shouldnt have 2 stacks

[bleak coral]

i actually use more reinforced iron plates than iron plates so i really shouldnt carry 2 stacks of iron plates

I assume you don't use walls a lot

[thorn bane]

oh ye true i dont use any

[bleak coral]

my general habbit is 2/3 stacks of plates and 1/2 stacks of rods for their misc. stuff, but if I go to build walls I do like 10 stacks each of concrete and plates, at least

it's not really feasible to carry enough plates regularly for a bunch of wall building

oh I guess not 10 stacks of concrete now, can get away less since they stack to 500, anyway, basically a bunch of concrete and plates

[thorn bane]

its still saying 7 stacks of 500 xD
i like foundations

but i did build everything on 1 big concrete base in the sky

[bleak coral]

yeah need lots of concrete, man it was annoying when they stacked to 100

500 is so much more convenient

[thorn bane]

yes

[bleak coral]

now if they'd just fix internal buffers so manifolds with concrete didn't take forever.....

[fierce ruin]

i like how metal walls only cost concrete

[bleak coral]

they don't, all the walls cost the same

[upbeat tide]

Still also cost iron plates 🙂

[fierce ruin]

metal walls don't cost plates for me..

[fierce ruin]

literally said they only cost concrete

[bleak coral]

mod?

[fierce ruin]

5 concrete to be exact

nope

[bleak coral]

grrrrr makin' me get up from bed and launch the game and take a screen shot 😛

[fierce ruin]

please do

along with game version lol

i wanna compare for when i get home

[fierce ruin]

EA CL1593...

I'm on EA CL1606...

[thorn bane]

wait they changed wall costs on experimental?

[fierce ruin]

unsure, i don't have the experimental ribbon though so

[bleak coral]

they didn't, and also that's not a version number that's out

[fierce ruin]

maybe not CLadded but I'm sure it starts with 1606

[thorn bane]

thast experimental
"Patch Notes: Early Access (EXPERIMENTAL) - v0.4.2.10 – Build 160628. This patch was released on July 15, 2021. "

[fierce ruin]

ye that 160628

[bleak coral]

nevermind

[fierce ruin]

lol

[bleak coral]

looked at the patch notes channel wrong

[thorn bane]

wait so can anyone confirm that they actaully changed the wall costs in that patch?

[thorn bane]

hm ok nvm

[fierce ruin]

weird

i swear it's only concrete

maybe im just thinking of foundations

I'll confirm when i get home later

[bleak coral]

yeah that's the foundation cost

[fierce ruin]

also

[opal fulcrum]

Im on experimental and walls cost 3 IP 3 concrete like always

[limpid narwhal]

walls have always been 3/3

[upbeat tide]

Yea that was my bad memory 🙂

[ancient crater]

since i am sure someone has done this math for me ill ask here: what most efficient way to get awsome sink points? is it building up all the way to space elevator parts or should i stop at for example turbo motors

[thorn bane]

11% Thermal Propulsion Rockets 89% Assembly Director Systems
both are space elevator parts

[ancient crater]

Thanks 👍

[fierce ruin]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=QjnxmOSGo0oECyyn5ism

🙃

[wind spade]

what are you gonna power that thing with? 😛

[fierce ruin]

Biomass 😏

[wind spade]

10k biomass gens? 🤔

[fierce ruin]

No wait, liquid biofuel.

Can make a whole building of just reserved liquid biofuel in storage and then switch to that for the generators when it's go time.

Save from having to run back and forth putting it in all gens if I just have a liquid production line set up.
Can just dump all leaves/wood/organs/carapaces in one container that gets sorted into the appropriate buildings.

[wind spade]

you need 400 refineries making liquid biofuel to sustain that 🤔 36k solid biofuel/min

(and that doesn't include power for the refineries themselves)

[fierce ruin]

Just need it to work for 1 minute so can get the video clip. 🙃

[wind spade]

one minute clip will be two frames though

[fierce ruin]

Funny because too true.

[dull bolt]

biomass powering a screw factory... that's obv gonna screw you over 😉

doing joshies job once again...

[wispy elk]

Hello, is there a way to calculate to see how much a train is going to carry?

Per minute*

[wind spade]

[train capacity]/[loop time in minutes] = [throughput]

[wispy elk]

Ty

[wind spade]

keep in mind that if you are using full belts, you need some buffers due to the 25 second pause on load/unload

[wispy elk]

I gotcha. What if you are not at full capacity?

[thorn bane]

btw isnt that only if the train is <5min?

[wind spade]

should be fine, but it really depends

[wind spade]

wdym?

[thorn bane]

because if the train takes longer than 5 min you have <780 throughput

well if its a 1 stack item

or to be more precise 4min 6s

[wind spade]

you can have two belts coming to one platform 🤷‍♂️

[thorn bane]

yes but if your train only does 600 items/min per car you dont need 2 belts

btw im still convinced that ISCs cause fps issues

[wind spade]

you can also have multiple trains

[muted crypt]

Doesn't everything cause FPS issues, as having more uObjects in your world will cause lag?

[thorn bane]

i mean more than that
in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUed4aFcYLs they mention that ISCs have issues with multithreading

[bleak coral]

that's in reference to how their outputs are unstable cause of threading, not in a FPS-negative way

if I had to hazard a guess the issue is some race condition where which output is chosen isn't always consistent

[fringe pawn]

I believe they've also said that's why multiple outputs on MK3 miners aren't necessarily a great solution.

Or any building, for that matter.

[thorn bane]

ye that is from that miner discussion

"cant he just have two output belts on the miner, but apparently thats actually more expensive than just having one belt"
"we wont be able to thread the same like its already an issue kind of on the boxes storage containers"
imo that means that having 2 outputs is cpu expensive

like more cpu expensive than a mk6 belt

also i had alot of ISC and bad fps but thats just anecdotal xD
but yeah its not hard to figure out when you need one and when you dont so i just dont build them if i dont need 780 throughput

(because the train takes longer than 5min so its <780 anyway)

[bleak coral]

🤷‍♂️ yeah I see what you're saying, but he doesn't say much about it so I wouldn't really read too much into, like he stops pretty abruptly talking about ISCs

[thorn bane]

ye its all very unclear i know
i asked that question in the last dev stream but they didnt awnser it
maybe next time 🙂

[bleak coral]

I actually took too much from it honestly, just extrapolating from my experiments with ISCs

[fierce ruin]

All this multi-threading talk and you barely even use fabric in the game at present.
😏

@thorn bane oh come on that was good one 😛

[thorn bane]

eeeeeeeh id say bad pun xD

[bleak coral]

cause facts I know for sure are:

1. there's a threading issue with ISCs
2. the priority output is chosen randomly on load
3. the output is unstable anyway and sometimes overflows when it doesn't need to

past that 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

What's more fun is having an ISC with multiple item types in it that have different stack values then double-connecting it to other containers and seeing what ends up where.

[fringe pawn]

What interests me are splitters/mergers that attach directly to inputs and outputs. They would work by effectively having an invisible infinite bandwidth belt to the attached merger/splitter. Then you're not using the wonky ISC IO logic, you're using the merger and splitter IO logic. Just make them require a supercomputer or something to gate them.

[wind spade]

that would make it possible to do splitter highways with infinite throughput 🤷

[fringe pawn]

Only if you could attach such splitters to other splitters. WHich they could choose to allow. But frankly, if they allowed it, would that be such a bad thing? That'd a very high effort build.

[wind spade]

nah, splitter, ISC, splitter, ISC

[fringe pawn]

Ah

[wind spade]

and yeah it's a high effort build, but it still allows for infinite throughput and instant transportation of items 🤷

[fringe pawn]

I guess you could just disallow ISCs? Regardless, I'm sure there's some way to troubleshoot shift to the splitter/merger logic to effectively triple IO bandwidth of buildings. As one option.

It would be a nice upgrade to truck stops (assuming their AI is also made better), to triple their bandwidth down the road.

This would also allow full output from 250% clocked constructors processing carapaces and organs into biomass. Because I'm sure there's tons of people out there crying over that bottleneck.

Wait, no it wouldn't. I suck at this game.

[wind spade]

why do you need 250% clocked carapace processing constructors lol

also most of the things ingame are balanced about mk5 belts and stuff, so having triple IO won't help much imo

there's only a handful of recipes that would benefit this

[fringe pawn]

Right, I'm only thinking of transport (trucks, drones, trains), and MK3 miners.

Doing it on anything else... I dunno, people do all sorts of weird stuff 😛

[wind spade]

I think priority is now to figure a way to make mk5s work normally, because if you don't, then anything that allows more thank mk5 output is pointless anyway

[fringe pawn]

The invisible infinite belt connection to the splitter/merger may work if I recall a stream correctly. They said taking away the need to render items on the belt made the problems go away for MK6.

I think it was Snutt and Mark talking

[thorn bane]

thats in the vid i linked

[wind spade]

I don't think anything other than mk1 needs items on the belt to be pickable anyway

[fringe pawn]

Yeah, good luck plucking things from higher tier belts that already exist 😛

Watching the clip again (thanks for posting), it sounds like they've got plenty of ideas in mind. I suppose it's best to just wait and see.

[bleak coral]

yeah I really hope they just embrace making items tubes for mk6, and remake mk5 to be that too

they're already so fast everything is a blur and it's kinda silly to pick stuff up off of them anyway

[fringe pawn]

I like the aesthetic of trucks, but I'd love a bandwidth increase on a single truck stop, just because making a truck go to 3 stops in a row feels a little goofy.

[minor cipher]

wdym by bandwidth? usually that would mean like wireless technology lol

[bleak coral]

bandwidth is pretty interchangeable with throughput

[fringe pawn]

I would guess the usage of that word could predate electricity.

[bleak coral]

I just meant in jargon for this server/game, I don't know the etymology of bandwidth, pretty sure it's just a computer thing

[fringe pawn]

Yep, looks like it

[wind spade]

bandwidth in general is like a capacity of a connection

[fringe pawn]

It seems like the original use may now more commonly be called simply "band" with bandwidth being used to describe throughput. Which does weirdly make bandwidth and throughput seem interchangeable, but only in their proper context.

[minor cipher]

wait uhh @wind spade , how come some of these are infinite usage of the material lol

[wind spade]

some things are marked as biomass-gen-able in data files, but can't actually be put in biomass gen and therefore don't have energy values -> hence the infinity. It's a minor error though so I just ignored it for now 😄

[minor cipher]

ah lol

[muted crypt]

was about to guess that

I figured the code marks it as biofuel but it's not actually biofuel

[wind spade]

not code, the datafile that devs export

[minor cipher]

assume you could just say "remove if number is infinite" or something, but yeah not really a huge issue lol

[plain lodge]

wait whats that infinite thing?

[wind spade]

well it's more like "remove if energy value is 0", but this will be fixed in the big update I'm working on anyway

[muted crypt]

water

I think

[minor cipher]

alumina solution

[plain lodge]

Ah

[muted crypt]

oh that's alumina mb

[minor cipher]

packaged

[plain lodge]

So unlocked after you dont need bio basically?

[wind spade]

there's more if you scroll down xD

[muted crypt]

you basically shouldn't need bio ever, in an ideal world

once you hit coal, you're done with them

[plain lodge]

Well you definetly need bio... I have it in my world lol.

[muted crypt]

I mean yes, you do need it, but only for a short period of time

[minor cipher]

uh

huh

[minor cipher]

only purpose for me after I got coal was for getting hard drives lol

[thorn bane]

you upgrade power just like you upgrade form mk1 belts to mk2 belts

[minor cipher]

so hey greeny, if lets say the docs.json file was updated in the game files, would the one your website uses be automatically updated to that version?

cause I dont remember seeing these buildings before

[wind spade]

no, I still need to update it manually, though I did some research and with some steam API usage I could completely automate updating of the tool

[muted crypt]

cries in needing 420 MW for one wreck

[bleak coral]

that's an old building, not used anymore

[muted crypt]

that'd be super cool, then you could actually play the game! lol

[minor cipher]

ah, never seen it in the codex lol

or well noticed it

[thorn bane]

just build a fuild generator and unpack your jetpack fuel into it

[bleak coral]

it got replaced with the wall conveyor supports you can put anywhere

[wind spade]

those are from U3, for compatibility reasons they are still included in the game. I'll probably need to add them to blacklist

[bleak coral]

speaking of docs.json, anyone know what this patch note means:

• Added “mSpentFuelClass” to Docs.json

[wind spade]

not really, I still have tons of features I want to add to the tool

[bleak coral]

as in what that class is

[wind spade]

that's for generators, only viable for biomass gen - it basically says "everything that extends from this class can be put into the generator"

[bleak coral]

ah, so it doesn't apply to like coal/coke/compacted coal?

[wind spade]

no, those gens have a list of items they can burn iirc

[bleak coral]

wonder why they did it different for biomass gens

[wind spade]

asked devs about this just now lol

as well as the other few issues mentioned above

[tropic hawk]

<found a cave with uranium in it where it's entrances are waterfalls>
<makes drone ports behind waterfalls>

[versed violet]

[mimicking Jace's voice]
NOO! Don't build in that cave!

[magic shadow]

you may find your factory buried, nemo

[tropic hawk]

then I will clip through the ground and unbury it. It was their own dang fault for placing a node in a cave

then making the only entrance a cool waterfall

[minor cipher]

Or ya know

Put all nuclear waste storage in the caves before U5

[fierce ruin]

that won't make it disapear, just make it in a unreachable place. radiation damage would still exist

[minor cipher]

Yeah ik

The thought is what counts lol

[fringe pawn]

Don't bother waiting for map changes, plenty of ways to get under the map already that likely won't go away. It's not a goal for them to keep people out of there.

[thorn bane]

if that fails you can always use scim

[frosty pawn]

Howdy partner! Don't build in that cave! Vamanos!

[upbeat tide]

Soo 63 of 126 nuclear reactors positioned. 😦 these things take time to build

[fringe pawn]

That's the big temptation to OC them. Even though space is infinite, they're just hard to place because of their size.

[keen patio]

There are several very large areas over water to work with to place them. I got 168 in a section no problem.

[fringe pawn]

For max uranium maybe a 14x18 grid?

[reef turtle]

I have recently been revisiting my Satisfactory calculator.

It needs a bit more work before I can deem it ready for release, but I'm pleased with the progress so far.

[wind spade]

looks nice. Can the above example also use residual plastic to take care of the resin?

[reef turtle]

Yes. In this example, that recipe has been disabled.

[wind spade]

that's pretty cool

[reef turtle]

If I re-enable it, it looks like this, which is a bit more incoherent, but:

The key feature is that you can enable and disable alt-recipes as you please, as well as ranking the resources by their relative "value," so that it will optimize the solution according to which resources you want to prioritize over others.

The UI for which looks like this, at the moment:

[wind spade]

that's interesting approach. In my tool I weighted the resources based on their relative appearance on the map, though I may eventually add the ability for people to set their own weights

[reef turtle]

One of the many items on the to-do list is tweaking how I assign colors in that visualization, since right now it uses a graph-coloring algorithm to ensure that items that touch one another don't use the same color, but this has the side-effect of also minimizing the number of colors used, which isn't necessarily what I want.

Adding weights within a tier is one feature I've considered, but (a) the UI would be a mess, and (b) I'm not sure how valuable it would be to have weights in addition to tiers.

[wind spade]

may not be the best idea, but what about picking "average/most used" color from the item icon?

[reef turtle]

What I will do is identify both which color is the most used, and which colors from the list of colors I'm using have not been used, then reassign however many items to use unused colors.

Another option is to assign colors to items and recipes a priori, but that could quickly get tedious.

I once toyed with doing this by devising an algorithm to extract some sort of most-representative color from the actual icon for each thing, but I was never satisfied with what I could hack out from that.

You end up with a lot of gray, heh.

Like, if you look at the copper ore icon, ideally you'd want to pick out the coppery color, but that's really quite a small portion of the actual icon.

So my mind starts thinking of some sort of statistical analysis of the HSV values for the image, something a bit more sophisticated than just the average or most-common... but I start to fear it's impossible, and really requires a human eye for best results. Which isn't to say you couldn't do something that works okay, like, half the time.

[wind spade]

or technically you can just generate some colors and then hardcode a few that were generated badly

though it would be a fun project to make an AI that would pick the best color from the image 😄

[oblique hollow]

sample all colors in the image -> reduce to a single color

[graceful elbow]

am i doing the math right that mk1 belt of copper ingots to copper sheet constructors is 30 constructors

i just got done with a writing assignment so i feel my brain is not working

[cosmic urchin]

definitely

what maths did you do?

[frosty pawn]

lol wut. 10 ingots = 20 sheets. mk1 = 60, mk2 = 120, 60/10=6, mk1 belt of ingots feeds 6 constructors and if you merge all the outputs you could fit the sheets on a mk2 belt

[fierce ruin]

a single copper sheet constructor use 20 copper ingot/min, mk1 belt carry 60/m. that's 3 constructor /belt

[frosty pawn]

oh did i get the numbers backwards? :S

[fierce ruin]

yes

[frosty pawn]

sry lol, it's been a while

[celest urchin]

Sooooooo. I'm here because I've got 18 refineries going for JUST plastic, and it's still not enough. (Yes they all have enough crude to keep going)

I need halp.

[cosmic urchin]

do you have any alternate recipes?

[celest urchin]

I do.

[cosmic urchin]

do you have recycled plastic/rubber and diluted fuel

[thorn bane]

and heavy oil reesidue

[celest urchin]

They are not helping, the alt recipe for Resin and water seems to have the same production rate as normal.

[cosmic urchin]

you dont need direct oil residue

[thorn bane]

huh?

[frosty pawn]

heavy oil residue alt makes more residue than polymer

[celest urchin]

There is an alt recipe for plastic that uses 6 resin and water to make 20/min.

[thorn bane]

you get that by default
we mean the alternacte recipes you get from researching hard drives in the MAM

[cosmic urchin]

im trying to see if he can use recycled plastic and recycled rubber

[frosty pawn]

convert crude into residue, convert the byproduct polymer into rubber, convert residue into fuel, use fuel for recycled rubber and recycled plastic, and also to power the whole thing

[celest urchin]

Oh, I've been using the recipe that makes plastic and heavy oil residue.

From crude.

[thorn bane]

yes that all you can do is build more plastic refineries or go hunt for hard drives
those make the production ALOT more efficient

[frosty pawn]

recycled are far more productive than polymer or default recipes

if you have both of the recycled recipes and the heavy oil residue and diluted fuel, you're rich

[thorn bane]

cost for 60 plastic
HOR diluted recycled: 20
diluted recycled: 30
recycled: 57.5
default: 90

[cosmic urchin]

i do it crude oil ```
Crude oil--->Rubber
->Heavy oil+Water--->Fuel
Rubber+Fuel(half)=plastic
Plastic(half)+Fuel=Rubber

[celest urchin]

I've been using this recipe.
https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/553550313533997057/885922213549703208

[frosty pawn]

1 pure oil node would require a lot of refineries, like way more than your 18, specially when overclocked. i typically use one node to do plastic and rubber AND power it all so it's not on my main grid, just self contained

[thorn bane]

using heavy oil residue makes it 50% more efficient

[cosmic urchin]

do you get more fuel?

[thorn bane]

yes alot more

[celest urchin]

No, that's the thing.

[wind spade]

best setup for plastic

[frosty pawn]

diluted fuel is like turning water into fuel

[thorn bane]

eh it just makes it more efficient

[cosmic urchin]

its actually turning heavy oil residue into fuel using water

[celest urchin]

I've been using both of these recipes. And my fuel production is fine.

And I've been just throwing resin in the awesome shop.

[thorn bane]

you can use the resin to make plastic if you want

[frosty pawn]

600 crude oil from one 250% pure node. make 20 refineries to turn it all into 800 heavy oil residue and 400 polymer resin, then turn the residue into 1600 fuel with diluted fuel recipe in the blender (you would need 16 blenders)

[celest urchin]

@wind spade I'm not sure I follow this.

[cosmic urchin]

what are you having trouble with?

[thorn bane]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Hard_Drive
as i said there are alternative recipes you can unlock with harddrives in the MAM

[celest urchin]

No I get that there are alt recipes. And I've been hunting for Hard drives.

I'm just not sure I follow the flow chart there.

[cosmic urchin]

just do it one by one

left to right

[celest urchin]

Do I need 4 layers of refineries to make plastic?

[thorn bane]

you need a loop with that 🙂

[cosmic urchin]

to make it as efficiently as possible

[celest urchin]

Crap..... How do I find these recycled recipes though??

It all seems like random farming. I've got alt recipes for stuff like concrete, and Iron plates.

[thorn bane]

its just pure luck to get the ones you want

[celest urchin]

But not fuel. Or the other stuff.

Oh well. More crash sites then.... Ooof

[thorn bane]

btw what do you need 360 plastic for?

[celest urchin]

No I need MORE than 360 plastic. Ball park guesstimates put it at ~500/min.

[frosty pawn]

dont worry about the flow chart. just know that the most efficient method is to use all these recipes.

1. turn all the crude into HOR and polymer
2. turn the polymer into rubber, we will use it later
3. turn all the HOR into fuel with the blender
4. make plastic from the rubber and fuel
5. turn the plastic back into rubber
6. turn the rubber back into plastic
7. repeat until you run out of fuel

[thorn bane]

im just curious for what

[celest urchin]

Honestly.... I don't know. Between packaging for fuel on trucking routes/ computers, circuit boards, and everything else that seems to be the need.

[frosty pawn]

bro if you just do like i said you can make more than 3x that much plastic from a single pure oil node

[thorn bane]

wtf are you saying he doenst have the recepies

[celest urchin]

I'm using 2 pure nodes AND a normal node.

[celest urchin]

And yeah, I don't have the recipes.

[frosty pawn]

well if you dont have recipes and you cant make enough plastic and youre looking for a solution, the solution is go find crash sites

[celest urchin]

Crap...

[thorn bane]

just do what you have fun doing
if you have fun getting more hard drives do that
if you have fun building another 20 refineries do that
i personally would just use less and be fine with it

[cosmic urchin]

^

[frosty pawn]

i have fun with a huge array of refineries and blenders and connecting all the pipes :3

[celest urchin]

Yeah. There are some in efficiencies in my factory atm unfortunately...

But I went out and got like 20 hard drives with Zero Recycled plastic recipes.

[limpid narwhal]

there's just under 100 crash sites on the map

and i think 89 total recipes?

it's worth spending an hour or two grabbing them all

[thorn bane]

can just get unlucky sometimes
ive researched 70 until i got heavy oil residue
i was so mad xD

[celest urchin]

Honestly my oil refinery looks the best.

An hour or 2? Bro...

[limpid narwhal]

save 20-30 for after you've hit tier 7/8 so you can get the end game recipes

that's what i did in my update 3 save

[frosty pawn]

you can spend a day exploring the whole map to get all the recipes, unlocking as you go, and by the time you finish your journey your inefficient factory will be finished inefficiently making all your storage containers full lol

[thorn bane]

i got the rifle ammo and jetpack and then went on a hunting trip

[limpid narwhal]

yep

[celest urchin]

That's what I did too. Picked up like 20 or 30 recipes. But no plastic...

[frosty pawn]

do it 4 more times

[limpid narwhal]

there's only so many you can unlock, you'll get it eventually

if you don't mind building bigger than you have to to save on time overall, don't bother

but if you want to maximise efficient usage of each resource node it's worth it

up to you

[frosty pawn]

yeah, just do the best you can with what you have right now. you will eventually unlock them all as you expand the factory to unlock the last tiers

[celest urchin]

My current factory is a mess... Every time I build I find out I need more of something else, and it makes a mess.

[frosty pawn]

then you can go back and make things efficient

you cant make things efficient the first time round

[celest urchin]

Yeah. I saw that. You have no idea what's coming AND no smart splitters.

[limpid narwhal]

my approach to avoiding messy factories like that is to have every node in an area pumped into a train/truck/drone station and deliver the ores to isolated factories that produce everything themselves from the raw materials

my current save was started in the northern forest and it was too constricting to do that, so i just up and moved to the grassy plains

[celest urchin]

That's smart. I might do that for my tier 7&8 factory.

I started on the grassy planes. Then I moved when I figured out how horrible grassy is.

[limpid narwhal]

currently what i'm working on is a worldwide train network that i can just hook stations up to at any point along the track and request any ore from anywhere

[frosty pawn]

my approach is to make factories in areas that have a nice bundle of nodes and put a truck/train station there to ship the parts to some place that can turn them into something else. the map is then covered in lots of small to medium size factories and a transport network. if i want to upgrade a factory, i dont retrofit, i dismantle the whole thing and rebuild it better

[celest urchin]

Oh so you're building Amazon.com?