math-and-meta

[bleak coral]

liquid buffers are fine, I'm thinking of solids

where they use the stack size

[oblique hollow]

different stack sizes would probably be ok?

like, aluminum definitely needs a lot of solution

[fringe pawn]

SOme solids could definitely use stack size adjustments

[bleak coral]

stack sizes are fine, the internal buffers shouldn't use stack size

it should be 2x one cycle

[oblique hollow]

wdym

[fringe pawn]

How would that work with 250% clocks?

[oblique hollow]

it still only needs double the items input per cycle

[bleak coral]

like instead of taking the full stack size, it should take enough for 2x one cycle so that the warmup on manifolds isn't so bad for stuff like concrete

[oblique hollow]

increasing clock speed doesnt change how many items per cycle you need

it just shortens the cycle

so if you need 15, 30 should be the stack size in the machine

[fringe pawn]

At least solids flow smoothly. Due to the bursty nature of liquid flows, I think I'm always going to place fuild bufferes between alumina solution refineries. Even diluted fuel can be problematic if overclocked.

[oblique hollow]

high burst recipes can definitely need buffers sometimes

[gloomy palm]

buffer means?

[fringe pawn]

Fluid buffers.

[gloomy palm]

ahhh

[oblique hollow]

the thing that stores fluid

[gloomy palm]

i put a fluid buffer on everything just by how i normally design everything

some places are even double buffered

[oblique hollow]

i never use them due to the fact that they delay things a lot

[gloomy palm]

delay

[oblique hollow]

the only times i use buffers is for regulation circuits

[oblique hollow]

this behaviour causes delays

you need to fill the buffer to a minimum level to get 300 back out if 300 goes in

[bleak coral]

I've only got one on my aluminum setup on my isolated machine that only takes recycled water. I needed it to seed it so it'd run continuously until it actually started receiving the recycled water and became self-sufficient, and it also helps keep it stable between water cycles.

[gloomy palm]

hmm yeah

but once it's filled enough then there's no delays

[oblique hollow]

~~laughs in VIP Junction ~~

[bleak coral]

those hadn't been discovered yet....

[gloomy palm]

my factory is probably very inefficient but it works 🤣

i'm gonna make a new one in U5

(creative mode only)

developer.download.nvidia.com/books/HTML/gpugems/gpugems_ch38.html

@oblique hollow i believe you would be interested in this

[oblique hollow]

well thats a failed link it seems

[gloomy palm]

😦

developer.download.nvidia.com/books/HTML/gpugems/gpugems_ch38.html

[oblique hollow]

may not be allowed due to the recent link limitations

[gloomy palm]

ah

@oblique hollow what if the water inside pipes was more like minecraft water? it would only update in larger blocks but still have realistic physics, just with a much much lower resolution?

since we can't see it, the updates in low resolution wouldn't be seen by the player, but the pipes would behave with more regular physical properties

[oblique hollow]

have you seen how slow minecraft water is?

[gloomy palm]

yeah but that's on purpose lel

im not talking about the speed of the updates, but the resolution of the fluid

think of it like, pushing large balls through a tube

[oblique hollow]

calculating fluid volume as if it was there is still absolutely wasteful

[gloomy palm]

hmmm

[gloomy palm]

what about removing the ability for the player to check the fluid/flow rate inside any given pipe, and only left it on for pumps and valves? would that help?

[gloomy palm]

@bleak coral ? what do you think? would it save processing?

[bleak coral]

I don't know, I don't know their code

[oblique hollow]

that makes them useless for players

you want to be able to check flow anywhere

[gloomy palm]

but but that's sort of a luxury when considering real life pipelines are mostly only monitorable by valves and pressure gauges

👀 sorry, i keep pushing realism, i shouldn't do that...

i think it's still fun as it is currently and that's what matters most

are you having fun?
yes

do you want to make it realistic and then make it less fun?
no

then are you gonna complain again about realism in the game?
no.....

ok, good.

sorry guys, don't mind me, just talking to myself 😁

we're all allowed 15 minutes of craziness per day 😅 i think i've used mine up already

[earnest glen]

Can't wait to start building my first nuclear power plant, is just two or three mega project ahead

Already find the spot

[versed violet]

Do they actually calculate water flow on every game clock 'tick'?

[fierce ruin]

I had an idea that is going to make me redo my entire power infrastructure 😬

[hollow juniper]

Anyone know of a hierarchy of sorts for iron?

going to make my Iron mega factory(every iron non overclocked node on the map) (going to make it look like a giant forge, gunna be lit) and wanted to know what is worth prioritising and what isnt or just maxamise everything

[versed violet]

HMF

[frosty owl]

Also some beacons on the side. 120/min should suffice for most uses

[versed violet]

Mind that greeny calc does not work with 'maximize everything' approach

[frosty owl]

I really don't get what causes this...
THIS (picture) is how a pog splitter is supposed to split a 1-1 sushi belt and yet...

[calm gale]

u need smart splitter

[frosty owl]

...this is what the belt looks like most of the time
Unless the output belts are higher tier than the input belt, this happens all the time and I don't get what's the cause for it

[calm gale]

a normal splitter will randomly send items to each belt smart splitters will only send the correct items to the correct belts

[frosty owl]

That's a programmable splitter set to iron ingots + steel ingots both left and right

[calm gale]

thats ure problem

dont set them both to each side

[frosty owl]

I don't want to filter the sushi belt, I want to split it, keeping the ratio between the items on the belt (like in the first picture)

[calm gale]

good luck then

[frosty owl]

It's not hard to do. What I don't get is why it fails when the output belts aren't higher tier than the input one (eg: it works fine with mk1 input and mk2 outputs and so on)

[frosty owl]

@oblique hollow or @wind spade, do you have any idea about what kind of mechanic could be causing it? Could it be FPS related?

[versed violet]

Could you describe what you want to achieve, in terms of input and output?

[frosty owl]

Split the content of belt A on belt B and C, while keeping the same ratio between the items on the belt. When it works, it looks much like the first picture, with pairs of items going on each belt (pairs in this case, but that just depends on the types and ratios of items)
Eg: coal+iron going into a steel factory

[wind spade]

Most likely splitter mechanics + internal buffer

[frosty owl]

Is buffering involved when there's no backup on the belts or overflow setting used?

[wind spade]

Just stop using mixed belts and all your problems will go away 😉

[frosty owl]

This really helps understanding the mechanics behind how it works... 🙄

[wind spade]

No idea, but it's my guess on cause of the issue

Or fps, if you're having issues with that

[frosty owl]

How it consistently works vs not-working when using higher tier belts for the outputs or not makes it a bit hard for me to blame FPS though

[earnest glen]

Is It normal that making aluminium casing with alcad recipe use less ingots than advertised? I'm making 1200 ingots and 8 assemblers should consume them all, but it keep choking giving enough time

Its all on mk5 belts

[bleak coral]

not that I know of, I'm assuming you're doing 2x mk5 belts? What's the split on those look like?

[empty glade]

You’re saying this to Sushi Boi?

[fierce ruin]

is there a meta to live somewhere? i started in the desert and the desert has nothing compared to other places

should i move somewhere else?

[empty glade]

Which desert?

[fierce ruin]

northwest

[empty glade]

Rocky. I think there are more resources near the edges

Gives plenty of room to build

[bleak coral]

people just use the whole map
that could mean one base you ship resources back to, a bunch of bases where you choose good spots and have transport between, outposts that all centrally feed a main base with finished products, or whatever

[fierce ruin]

gotcha

[bleak coral]

the one thing that's definitely not done is sticking to just one region and only using the resources there, cause the rarer resources are more spreadout, and I'm not even sure there's a region that has all of them that requires no shipping in of resources

[torpid robin]

strongly disagree, the desert has everything you need within its borders

[torpid robin]

the desert has it all. sure some of its on the edges

only thing that it doesnt have is oil directly in it

but there is some in that valley really not far from it

[bleak coral]

which desert?

cause dune doesn't have bauxite, rocky sorta kinda does (up that cliff)

[torpid robin]

arrh true. truth be told completely forgot about bauxite

early starting it has everything

sulfur not far. 2 nodes of cat 2 of quartz

the thing about dune is how easy it is to get to it. sure it may be a bit away buit its an easy walk

[bleak coral]

swamp gets pretty close too, but the coal is kinda distant

swamp is harder to navigate than dune desert though

of course most of the problem is solved with liberal use of kabooms 😉

kinda want to do a swamp base now actually, but like everything is above the trees, but not floating like on stilts or something

[young rover]

Swamp is red on the map for future changes.

[torpid robin]

wont be this update though, most likely youd be on a new save by the time its an issue

dunno bout you but a save only last me 1-2 updates

[earnest glen]

something like this, as my production line is composed by 14 foundries each floor

the 360 line get choked but it shouldn't unless i'm blind on something

[bleak coral]

I mean my first thought is this is over-engineered. You don't need those smart splitters, you can just have the one manifold with the mergers in the manifold to inject more material. I'm not seeing anything yet where the smart splitters could cause an issue though, so I'm not sure that's it.

[earnest glen]

i tried without but second and fifth assember starve for some reason

that way everything is 💯 , but i just have more ingots than needed 🤔 I'll just sink them, i was just curios

[bleak coral]

I'm not sure you get what I'm saying.....

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[bleak coral]

that lower right one in the picture, no extra splitters

[earnest glen]

i tried that but i got result as above

first time happening, but i double-checked production and numbers are correct

[torpid robin]

are you saure its not the case of too many ingots but not enough of whatever else you are feeding it

if i find something is clogging its actually normally a lack of something. and its as simple as forgetting to hook a belt up

[bleak coral]

or the outputs are clogged

[torpid robin]

which is still often missing a dam belt 😂

like the tiniest little one between a merger or soemthign

[earnest glen]

nope, copper coming at correct ratio and output is never clogged as i always put a sink everywhere 🙂

[bleak coral]

or maybe just there's extra ingots in the foundries and they haven't all been worked through yet

[torpid robin]

ohhh

have you made sure you have a smart splitter set to over flow before the sink

i have done that a couple times. had soemthing going to a sink on a splitter.bu t of course it did 50/50

not overflow

[earnest glen]

i tried also manually take ingots from foundries but nothing, after a while the last couple of them are idling from time to time, but thats is not the real issue, which is those couple of foundries choke the aluminium production which we all know is a very delicate thing 😄

well, thank you for your inputs anyway

[frosty owl]

I'd merge the ingots in batches of 600/min so you avoid having to do weird splitting later
Eg: for 14 foundries that means a 600 and a 240 belts

[earnest glen]

i'll try and let you know!

[vivid lotus]

how big is the buffer of the splitter and mergers ?

[earnest glen]

seems the problem in the end was just a bit too much ingots in the buffers, removing them manually seems to have restore efficiency! Thank you all. BTW @oblique hollow i take the chance to implement the VIP system you advice, it took some time to fit everything in, but definitively worth it i'm gonna share some screens tonight 😉

[thorn bane]

i feel like the VIP only prioritizes when its loaded as in youre next to it. can anyone confirm that?

[earnest glen]

I let you know after some time, for now is doing wonders in my aluminium setup

[oblique hollow]

cannot confirm personally, but eh, maybe its different from game to game

[thorn bane]

this design actually also works i think
its not as compact as the VIP but interesting to note

[oblique hollow]

wtf even is that

[thorn bane]

its how you do priority splitting with belts

the idea is that 1/27 is from the bottom input 26/27 is from the top

[earnest glen]

here we go

[keen patio]

Did you mean to post in screenshots?

[earnest glen]

uh sorry i think was allowed, actually was to show VIP implementation as we discussed it for long the other day 🙂

[versed violet]

Not sure if here or tech-talk:
My GPU seems to be bored with only 80% utilization when in closed rooms or looking at small factory section. My fps remains 60-80 and is unlocked.
Did I hit a cpu bottleneck?

[keen patio]

Performance tab is usually a bit more clear of a picture on whats happening

On a new game/fresh save with nothing built, I can definitely hit my 144 set cap.. but in my bigger 6mb+ save I cap at 60 to avoid excessive fluctuations between 80-55... so... How big is your save?

[versed violet]

Just hit 6MB

[keen patio]

Yea, you'll never get above 100 fps again, barring some serious reduction on settings.

There's just that much going on, even if it isnt rendered.. so yes, CPU bottlenecking I guess.

[versed violet]

YaY!

[keen patio]

But its not.. exactly 'bottlenecking' per say.. I just got a new computer and my CPU isn't hitting 100% or anything.. its just not able to generate more frames for whatever reason

[versed violet]

I mean 'expressing my satisfaction that buying an overly expensive cpu I did not expect to ever fully utilize actually has any benefits'

I suspect satisfactory does not run on arbitrary number of threads

[keen patio]

Yea, it definitely has yet to be fully optimized. I have high hopes for significant frame increases @ 1.0 or later patches.

[versed violet]

any info how many threads satis can run ?

[bleak coral]

it uses about 3 I believe

[versed violet]

That would check with having a 50% cpu load on 6 core ryzen

[earnest glen]

Anyhow Just turn everything on high and you should get decent fps

[keen patio]

Does view distance have any serious impact on performance?

((because I assume the biggest FPS drag is the calculations of moving items, and not the rendering of said buildings holding the belts..

[earnest glen]

I keep It on ultra, i think It cause spikes only when changing biomes

Like between titan forest and the pink one (where i'm Building now

[keen patio]

Is there an updated guide on the video settings and their FPS impact? my googling is turning up 2019-2020 results 😦

and the engine upgrade a few months back I assume would have impacted/changed a bunch of that.. not to mention there are more options now.

[tropic hawk]

turn everything low, FPS goes up. turn everything up, FPS goes down

its not rocket science

[thorn bane]

anyone know the best combination of thermal propulsion rockets and assembly director systems for points

[lucid geode]

I got 23.2 TPR/284.4 ADS, that's using only uranium power at 50.4 UFR and sinking the 12.8 PFR. It also makes 120 batteries for drones.

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=0B9b40hAA4QDu0TyZ061

[thorn bane]

pretty sure its 12.6 plutonium fuel rods

the wiki has this one linked https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=wg8Dlkdak4DC2YyawP4K

im just curious what the max is

[lucid geode]

Yeah 12.6 sorry

The one on the wiki is pretty much spot on no? I think that's what I worked from but wanted some batteries too.

[thorn bane]

just trying out some numbers gave me better results like 34/274

[lucid geode]

I guess you could try a few and plot a curve and go from there?

[bleak coral]

It's the best one I knew of to use for that link

that's crocketeer's solve from earlier this year, not sure if it's technically possible to do better (minimize power or make sure there's room for batteries or whatever), but I figured it was close enough for the purpose of showing how long it'd take to unlock all the awesome shop stuff

[lucid geode]

35/273.4 seems to give the highest

[bleak coral]

yeah that's a bit more, and calculator will do it

[lament jolt]

So, I have started to sketch out a plan for a nuclear power plant. I am NOT a conventional person when it comes to doing some things in games. My goal is for 500 Nuclear Power Plants, fed by a 100 wagon water train (yes, each wagon station fed by 5 extractors), and of course, the fuel rods likely by drone. Question I have is about the plutonium fuel rod sink process. If I dedicated the impure node up on the mountain to mixing with all the rest of the things needed to recycle the uranium waste, how many particle accelerators might I need? I tend to use a big buffer system to ignore the 'max throughput' per minute for each node. On a different playthrough I have all the oil on the map (pre U4) collected by train and stored in a massive 25 wide 9 high large fluid buffer site, so patience is on my side....

[bleak coral]

There's some fundamental problems with your plan.

Firstly the max sustainable nuclear power plants possible using both uranium and plutonium fuel rods is only 476 nuclear power plants. And if you're using sinking the plutonium fuel rods that goes down to 252 power plants. Even if you're stocking up a ton of uranium ore, you're really not gonna be able to support 500 on uranium alone for any significant stretch of time before stuff just starves.

Secondly you've severely underestimated the water needs of nuclear power plants. They need 300 m^3/min water each at 100% clock speed. 500 extractors is actually only enough water for 200 nuclear power plants. So same problem again even if you stocked up a ton of water.

Finally, you don't need nor want to use any alternates if you're just gonna sink the plutonium rods; so you don't need uranium ore to make plutonium fuel rods since you won't be using fertile. They all trade extra resources to make extra plutonium rods, which if you're not gonna actually use them is a waste. Also why bother sinking them anyway if your system is not sustainable cause you're relying on stockpiled raw resources to bypass throughput limits? If you're gonna push beyond the actual limit, you might as well use the plutonium too so you're starting from a base of 476 instead 252 to stretch your resources farther. Also side note fertile uranium doesn't result in more power from uranium ore, with both of the alts for the uranium fuel rod line you get more power from making more uranium fuel rods from that ore, getting more waste, and making plutonium rods from that.

[fierce ruin]

I'm going to do a remodel of my turbo towers given everything I learned while making them but I have this question regarding pipes:

Given mk2's don't actually give you 600 flowrate, it is better to just immediately junction an overclocked pure oil node into x2 mk1 pipes or should I just downscale my overclock from 250% to like 240%?

[frosty owl]

Immediate junctions should work

[fierce ruin]

👌

[frosty owl]

Ideally, there should be a single pipe segment between the extractor and the junction

[frosty owl]

Did you test it yet? ^^

[fierce ruin]

That's the plan. Pull it out just far enough for it to let me confirm placement, delete the support that it auto-generates, and stick the junction on the end of it.

[frosty owl]

I never placed a junction at the end of a pipe... It's a way to build pipes that I'm not accustomed to

[fierce ruin]

Saves me from having to delete and rebuild a lot.
(Not sure if it is "better" but whenever I place a junction on an existing pipe I always delete the 2 halves I just made and rebuild them to the junction so I don't have those pieces going through the junction itself)

[frosty owl]

Unless I build without foundations, I found placing the junction first the quickest

Like, placing it on the ground, then connecting the pipe

[earnest glen]

Be sure the pipe Is connected directly to the first junction from extractor. Do not place anything in between or it will ruin your flow

[fierce ruin]

👍

[oblique hollow]

i find that using mk 2 pipes at 600 sorta works if you dont split the pipe at all. so straight mk 2 going somewhere with no side merging or splitting is ok.
but then the process of dividing that up gets interesting. Possibly feed the Pipe into a Buffer, THEN split off from there.

[fierce ruin]

Wouldn't it coming out of a buffer in a mk2 have the same issue as just coming out of the extractor?

[oblique hollow]

Ill try and see if i can find save and stable ways to maybe use 600 from a mk 2

[oblique hollow]

yea kinda but its a difference if you have 5 km of pipe inbetween something

the buffer is there to take away any resistance or "load" from the mk 2 pipe

[fierce ruin]

Fair. For what I am currently planning given flow rates and excessive splitting in the turbo fuel plant I'm just going to package all the fuel produced then have an unpackager on each floor.

[oblique hollow]

for long distance, packaging might actually be worth it. also considering the low usage number of turbofuel

[fierce ruin]

From the extractors directly is the only source of 600 flowrate, everything else I can do in mk1's until whatever is going on in mk2's gets fixed.

[oblique hollow]

the biggest problem with using mk 2 at full capacity is of course the loading bug

[fierce ruin]

Since mk1's work "correctly" afaik

[oblique hollow]

that heavily limits it

[fierce ruin]

Aye but loading bug applies to mk1's and they seem to not have as many issues.

[oblique hollow]

it applies to all pipes

with mk 1 you usually just dont notice it as much because those setups usually dont run at capacity

[fierce ruin]

Aye but mk1's actually do their full 300 flowrate, where people were saying mk2's don't actually achieve 600.

[oblique hollow]

sometimes they do 600, sometimes not.

with manifolds, its definitely a big issue

[fierce ruin]

Which seems like it needs to be fixed closer to 1.0

[earnest glen]

for the loading bug i found buffers good enough

[fierce ruin]

Hence my just using mk1's for the time being.

[oblique hollow]

a buffer cant help forever

it helps like for 1 or 2 times loading the game,

depending on how big the setup is

[fierce ruin]

Elsewise if you're saying mk2's mostly work as intended than I need you to look at my turbo towers and tell me why they aren't getting full flowrate 😄

[earnest glen]

mh, i found buffers get refilled even in a system that should consume all is produced from time to time

i think due to different production times

[fierce ruin]

Because pumping 2332.5 into a system that needs only ~2200 should have fuel reaching all generators. But it doesn't.

[oblique hollow]

oh do NOT get me started on big setups

even mk 1 pipes would be hellish there

[fierce ruin]

And I let it run for over 8 hours straight to allow flow to work itself through.

[oblique hollow]

save and quit the game and your setup starves again

also, did you loop the manifold?

because you will never get full flow in an unlooped manifold

[fierce ruin]

This is why I'm remodeling to a "packager per floor" thing. So each "setup" is really only 6 generators.

[earnest glen]

the only "big" setup i did i think is "small" compared to yours >> 800 tf to 176 gens

[fierce ruin]

I don't believe there is a way to loop it with the way I have it constructed.
How do you loop a 32-story, 6 generators per floor building?

[earnest glen]

with like 64 gens per floor

[oblique hollow]

go 32 stories up and 32 back down.

connect both ends xd

[fierce ruin]

Yes, so it is pumped up the 32 stories and then it just falls down the building.

Understandably it needs to "backup" back up the building.

[oblique hollow]

it will take forever to fill, naturally

[fierce ruin]

But wouldn't connecting it back to before it gets pumped up fuck the entire system?

[oblique hollow]

why would it

[fierce ruin]

Like the issue I was mainly having is the Blenders kept stopping... when I want them to FLOWWWW

Why are the stopping when there are still empty generators in the system? 😠

[earnest glen]

head-lift, single segment getting exeeding capacity

[oblique hollow]

again, you need a loop

[earnest glen]

in my exp at least

[oblique hollow]

even mk 1 pipes would need one for large size builds

but mk 2 even moreso because of the uncertainty of their true capacity

also, if a blender backs up, of course, it can never empty if the pipe runs at 600

for that, the pipe would need to be able to handle MORE than 600

in short: whatever you do, always run double pipes for large builds

and loop it all

[fierce ruin]

Or package 🙂

[oblique hollow]

packagers also dont fix capacity issues

they only remove transport losses, if any

your best bet is to just build a bit more packagers than you would need

[fierce ruin]

Oh yes.

Base package speed for turbo is 20/min so that already is bleh for amount needed.

[oblique hollow]

100 packagers minimum hehehe

[earnest glen]

did you use valves by any chance? Those can reduce flow if not correctly build also

[fierce ruin]

48 with them all oc'd to 250%

[fierce ruin]

Valves at each junction set to 10 because the gen immediately after them needs only 4.5.

[fierce ruin]

We packing 2400 Turbo here 😄

[oblique hollow]

i just said minimum, not maximum

[earnest glen]

mh, and did you put valves on every exit of the junction?

[fierce ruin]

No, just the ones going to the generator.

[oblique hollow]

wait, a valve before each generator?

[earnest glen]

that can limit flow afaik if not under constant pressure (a pump close by for istance)

[fierce ruin]

#screenshots message

That's the layout

[oblique hollow]

oh dear

junction to valve to buffer

thats a horrible combo

you do know of how buffers behave, right?

[fierce ruin]

in my defense, that should work fine if everything worked as it should.

[earnest glen]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Valve?file=Pipeline_Infograph_Ver3_5_Part_3.png

[oblique hollow]

even if it worked right, its still a massive delay

[fierce ruin]

Massive delay in spooling, yes. Once buffers fill not really.

[oblique hollow]

once buffer is at 70 m³ maybe

[fringe pawn]

That seems like a lot of extra work for no gain

[fierce ruin]

Again I am pumping way more turbo into this system than it needs.
So buffers are SUPPOSED to be full at the end. Buffers there to combat loading bug.

[oblique hollow]

might aswell remove the valves

so it all fills faster

[fierce ruin]

But they look pretty 😦

[oblique hollow]

then set them to 300 / 600

[fierce ruin]

Valves were intended to help it fill "more evenly" if I am being honest.

But I can remove both them and the buffers if it would work better.

But then loading bug 😦

[earnest glen]

just put buffers on top of everything

then connect them back to input

working fine on my setup

[fringe pawn]

Power storages are a better solution to the loading bug, unless you're running max power all the time

[oblique hollow]

but still: please loop the manifold

[fierce ruin]

Well I had an idea yesterday that you will all probably hate 😄

[oblique hollow]

run a second pipe to the top

[earnest glen]

+1

i loop even rows of 4 ref

[fierce ruin]

Decentralized power.
Like make all the turbo in the one spot, yes. Package it because fluid trains are "fun".
But then each outpost has its own power network.
Fuel train to run turbo around the map to each outpost.

[oblique hollow]

then one day the fuel gens that run the train fail and your entire map dies and stays dead for hours

[fierce ruin]

Fuel train runs on geothermal, durrrr 😛

Or better yet -- Liquid Biofuel :Kappa:

[oblique hollow]

then one day the train takes a wrong turn and oops, "Can't reach location"

yes! Liquid Biofuel! Handfeed all your sites biomass and they make fuel on the spot

[fierce ruin]

But the idea was both A) Avoids larger setups and B) If one outpost fails it has no effect on the larger grid.

Because there is no "larger grid"

[earnest glen]

like deforesting 90% of time, then use 10% to check flows around 🙂

can't wait to start nuclear plant so for a while i can forget about fuel gens ahah

[oblique hollow]

water says hi :)

[earnest glen]

for nuke do you mean?

[fierce ruin]

But @oblique hollow you're saying looping a vertical manifold wouldn't cause the system to back up?
Because I just have this vision in my head of the fuel going top-to-bottom then at the re-connection it flows back towards the Blenders.

[oblique hollow]

ye

[earnest glen]

another problem for another day

right now i'm working on quarz, such a relief to not have to deal with so many fluids after aluminium and fuel gens

[fierce ruin]

And I'm thinking it's better to just always use 1 more pipe than you need if the goal it keeping things flowing.

[fierce ruin]

I have quartz next to where I'm going to set Al so I may just use Pure Qtz to burn the Al waste water tbh.

[earnest glen]

i notice that with aluminium, i have 4 pipes for 8 refs

[fierce ruin]

Does this work if the middle line just drops straight down or does it need to go all the way back before the Blendies?

[oblique hollow]

when in doubt:

and yes, i want you to connect the other side of the blenders

so that they can empty

[fierce ruin]

Oh dear... this is like... total remodel...

[oblique hollow]

why? just run another pipe

[fierce ruin]

I may need a drawing of how to do the overflow hook for this setup because I think the TOWAH aspect of this is causing it to misbehave.

[fierce ruin]

System too compact to cleanly to do that. So I need to remodel to make it less compact anyway.

[oblique hollow]

it fills from the bottom up and from top down this way

[fierce ruin]

Fair. But I'm getting "overflow" without things even being filled yet which is why I'm thinking the overflow hook is either not effective for this style or I need to adjust it.

Because that thing is 9 stackables tall and still having overflow.

[earnest glen]

remove the limiting on valves in my opinion also

keep them with no limit to prevent backflow but remove the limits

[fierce ruin]

I'll do that. Is it better to have buffer-per-generator or just add like 1 more floor and the top floor is 4 industrial buffers? (For combating loading bug)

[oblique hollow]

per floor is more than enough

per floor, loss on load would be 30 m³

[fierce ruin]

I wouldn't really need an industrial per floor then tbh

[oblique hollow]

yeah. but you will still need some overproduction to fill them back up again

[earnest glen]

i have only buffers on top of my higher gen, but again my setup is "small"

[fierce ruin]

That will be provided.

[earnest glen]

and in my case doing +6 tf then needed

[fierce ruin]

So piping-wise I'm seeing this as a change:

from 1 up, split 3 ways on the way down, split each of those at every floor
to 1 up, 1 down, splits on each floor to buffer, then pipe from buffer splits to generators.

and of course the 1 down loops back to Blendies

[earnest glen]

i would also raise a bit the buffers on floors so gens get the juice first

just a couple of meters, you should have plenty of space to do that

[fierce ruin]

It's a remodel so I have all the space 😄

[earnest glen]

ehhe

[fierce ruin]

I need to remodel the actual turbo plant too so I have loops on the oil, HOR, and fuel going to the turbo blenders.

[earnest glen]

i found my personal "template" for ext building, for now it holds the upgrades

[fierce ruin]

How I'm going to cleanly loop 1800 oil between 60 Refineries is a mystery to be solved..

[earnest glen]

i can fit in 8 ref per row, or 4 blenders, buffers on the side and space for connection between floor. It may not be pretty, but working fine for now

just 15 foundation large (2 empty for ext sidewalk, 2 for internal walk, 11 for machines), 11 high (9 for ref + 2 beneath for pipes-belts). Than raise the walls for many time as you want and repeat

[oblique hollow]

3 rows, 3 loops?

[fierce ruin]

I have 6 rows of 10, basically 3 sections of 20 facing inward.

So there are currently 4 pipes running. 2 mk1's on the outside and 2 mk2's on the inside.
(Oddly with the 20 junctions on a mk2 I haven't had any issues with those machines waiting for oil..)

But you're saying I need to loop that all the way back to the Extractors.

So I'm trying to think of a clean way to do that.

[earnest glen]

package it and deliver to roof with drones 😆

[fierce ruin]

See, as much as people hate trucks from "needing to get fuel to them".
Drones have the same mechanic with "needing to get batteries to them".

Yet no one complains about drones....

[earnest glen]

i never complain about trucks

actually my starter tier 6 base is still going on trucks, never ever had a problem

[fierce ruin]

I will complain that truck stations need 2 outputs 😄

Lol. Because a solid truck route can bring in more throughput than 780/m

[earnest glen]

as starter base, everything is limited to 2 mk4 belts, so no issue 😛

because storage hub have industrial container with 2 inputs, so thats it

[fierce ruin]

Yeah.

Programming the trucks themselves with what they pickup/dropoff instead of that being tied to the station and 2 outputs on the stations is really the only 2 things trucks need imo.

Aside from a working physics engine 😄

[oblique hollow]

easy solution, use two truck stations

[earnest glen]

the problem for me was the power in that "tier"

too much power consumed by truck station, and once you get more you have trains (which are super satisfying to watch)

[fierce ruin]

I do this already but it isn't as precise as just having 2 outputs.
Though would be 100x better of you could overlap the parking area... the cranes don't even touch but it won't let you build them that way.

[earnest glen]

personally after almost 600 hours in my current save i've yet to build a single hypertube ahah

[fierce ruin]

I built 1 to speed up turbo tower construction as I had to keep going back and forth to get more motors/hmf's

I prefer driving. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[earnest glen]

eheh i know the pain 🙂 For now i like to move with my mega-train full of materials of every kind, when i need something i just set auto-pilot on and go smoke a cigarette ahahhaha

[fierce ruin]

But the sand under the arch between oil islands and rocky desert has some sharp AF hilltops to it so driving isn't feasible.

[fringe pawn]

I built a grasslands to rocky desert hypertube with 24~ entrances on each side. It's close to instant.

[fierce ruin]

Highest I have done is 12 because I still do like the "flying through the tube" feeling.

[fringe pawn]

You can just enter at the first entrance (or anywhere in between) if you want a slow ride.

[fierce ruin]

1-6 is "slow" to me. 10ish is "how fast they should be if they (for whatever abstract reason) randomly decided to remove hypercannons"

[earnest glen]

one question: how much irradiated get the area around nuclear plant? I plan to build it the "pit" middle map and put scories as deep as i can in the hole

[fringe pawn]

Unless you create a gigantic buffer of encased cells and fuel rods, nuclear power plants themselves emit negligible radiation.

[wind spade]

nuclear plant itself has no radiation. Only the fuel cells and waste stored inside

[earnest glen]

thank you

[fierce ruin]

💀 i forgor

[thorn bane]

only a small test nothing long term yet

[frosty owl]

Does it work as intended?

[thorn bane]

yes

[versed violet]

A nuke with full stack of uranium rods is safe to stand on top.
A single storage container filled with uranium rods will start to damage you from around 6 foundations away (don't quote me on number)

[thorn bane]

if you balance it instead of manifold there is actually 0 radiation cause the rods get used immediately

[versed violet]

I prefer the nukes to keep a stack of rods in case of delivery interruptions

Balancing is also not an option if you manufacture rods elsewhere

[thorn bane]

well if its a multiple of 2 or 3
i just have multiple belts going there

[versed violet]

Buuuut.
You can use smart splitters to direct rods to nukes and 'overflow' the rest, then connect them with mk5 belts. this ensures no extra rods are left on connecting belts after nuke is full. Loop them back into beggining = low radiation nukes.

[fierce ruin]

And here I thought the main problem people run into is fluid bugs with the amount of water that nukes take 😄

[thorn bane]

ye PSA build nuclear plants near water xD

[fierce ruin]

Packaged Water on the Conveyor input, right? 😏

[thorn bane]

5 packagers per plant oh my god

[fierce ruin]

Be honest you could make some cool-looking circular builds with that.

[versed violet]

Tried that with coal plant - didn't work

[versed violet]

Or run a coal power plant on packaged water shipped from 2km away

[fierce ruin]

Was going to say "It did pre-U3" but then they didn't take water back then iirc...

I remember fuel gens using 100% packaged fuel before pipes were a thing 😄

[versed violet]

ouch

[fierce ruin]

Was interesting.
Extractors just pumped out oil barrels.

Dune Desert was WHITE sand back then too.

[icy pumice]

I get 120 Water/min as a by-product, and use all of it in the wet concrete recipe, slightly overclocked. I need 144 limestone/min so I also overclocked my miner to that. Still, for some reason , my limestone belt stucks for some reason

Had to less water in the production itself, so there was to less water as a by-product

[thorn bane]

am i missing something this is what people mean with VIP right?

[earnest glen]

yep seems so!

[analog thorn]

How many plate constructors and assemblers do I need to run an efficient, no waste, reinforced iron plate factory using the casted screws alternate recipe?

2.5 assemblers right?

[calm gale]

yea 2.5

2 at 100% and 1 at 50

[analog thorn]

And for plates?

I would need 75 plates per minute right?

[calm gale]

60

[analog thorn]

60?

[calm gale]

assuming ure going for 10

[analog thorn]

10 what?

[calm gale]

plates

[analog thorn]

10 plates for what? I'm not understanding

[calm gale]

wait for plates its 2 assemblers not 2.5

10 reinforced plates per min

[analog thorn]

I'm going to run 2.5 assemblers

[calm gale]

then ure making more then 10 reinforced plates

[analog thorn]

I'm talking about normal plates

[calm gale]

oh

without knowing if ure trying to make the reinforced plates per min or ure iron input idk

[analog thorn]

This is the original question, we've determined that I need to use 2.5 assemblers

which use 30 iron plates each

so it would be 30 + 30 + 15, right?

[calm gale]

except using the cast screw alt throws a wrench in the data

its 60 iron plates and 120 screws for 10 reinforced plates per min

[analog thorn]

I have 150 screw production

[calm gale]

ure making 30 too many then lol

[analog thorn]

UGH

[calm gale]

if u do 60 iron plates and 30 rods ull get the 120 screws u need

[analog thorn]

Fine

[calm gale]

then all ud need is 120 iron per min

[analog thorn]

Which I can get

[wise grove]

By chance anyone knows how many factory ticks per second Satisfactory tries to achieve?

[analog thorn]

So now how many smelters do I need?

[calm gale]

4

[thorn bane]

should probably make a reddit post

[earnest glen]

Mmhh.. Yesterday i did some correction in my setup and finally all seems working 💯… but on the long therm seems that is so efficient that buffers of alumina solution are getting full when they are just supposed to manage flow variation

[swift robin]

tfw u think u got the pipes set up to consume recycled water first but the aluminum gets waterlocked anyway...

[somber flower]

can someone confirm that in game for Fuel Generator, while being overclocked to 250% consumes ~26/min of fuel, as simple maths gives result of 30

[wind spade]

fuel generator at 250% consumes 24.28225 fuel/min

[somber flower]

ok is there an answear to why? ^^ and now i know why i got so much spare fuel...

[wind spade]

because overclocking generators scales differently than overclocking normal buildings

[somber flower]

ok so i missed that info, Thx!

[wind spade]

it's basically [power produced at 100%] * [clock speed/100]^(1/1.3)

at 250%, it produces slightly over 202% of power

(while consuming slightly over 202% of fuel)

[somber flower]

yeah i noticed

[wind spade]

so overclocking doesn't give you any benefit except for saved space (and since space is pretty much infinite, I don't think it's worth to overclock gens)

[somber flower]

my old pc had differ opinion, but now i need to rework fuel farm so, will reconsider not-overclocking them

[earnest glen]

nope if you did everything correct in my exp. There were issue here and there, but with some advises and some trial&error finally is perfectly balanced. Consider this: the sytem is not waterlocked even if i'm givin 1200 m3 more then needed (just to reduce down time after a reload)

[oblique hollow]

You VIP'ed it, didnt you?

[earnest glen]

absolutely

there were some issues in the piping, now i've removed every valve and just throwing in tons of water. As said, is perfectly balanced now, so much that i'm producing more alumina solution than math tell me. Actually I believe this behaviour is explained by the fact i have no restriction in capacity, so if during a "tick" all machines are full, all the 180*8 alluminia solution goes to buffer

actually not all, as buffer is connected by a single pipe, but anyhow enough to be stored

[oblique hollow]

the buffer should always fluctuate and go up and down

[fierce ruin]

i have 3 generators with 187.5 target MW, so they should be producing producing 562.5 MW. but my production is 455MW

my capacity is 515MW

why is it not 562.5MW?

[wind spade]

if you set the target MW in the overclocking menu, they are most likely wrong, since the overclocking menu is wrong. Each generator produces 75 MW at 100% and it's not recommended to overclock them (but if you do, 250% overclocked gen produces 151.76 MW)

[fierce ruin]

why is the overclock menu wrong??

[versed violet]

known issue, deal with it 🕶️

[wind spade]

known bug since U2, no idea why they haven't fixed it yet

but generators don't scale with OC speed the same way as buildings do

[fierce ruin]

so only the coal gen OC menu is wrong? all the other OC menus are correct?

and why do people not recommend to OC coal gens?

[wind spade]

any power generator menu is wrong

and any power generator is not recommended to overclock

because they don't scale the same way, you lose the "nice" numbers per minute that you have at 100%, so you're left to do some weird math and lose some % of efficiency because you can't get the exact numbers due to OC being max 4 decimals.

250% OCed gen produces around 202% power, so it's 3 shards to save space of one gen

and since space is pretty much infinite, there's no reason to save space and it's better to save shards for miners

[oblique hollow]

OCing gens would require you to use lots of shards and math out odd numbers

[fringe pawn]

I would argue it's more about saving labor than space. But assuming a limited amount of shards, you're better off using them where you can get 250% instead of 200%~ for 3 shards.

[frosty owl]

100% agree on labor
One of the reasons I always OC generators is because I don't like to spend time on making them and I know I'll get the shards back when I'll dismantle it
The whole reason why I OC in that sense is to rush things, so I'm certain I'll be dismantling that stuff

[wind spade]

I wonder if building another gen and connecting it is so much harder than opening a gen, putting three shards in, setting it to a correct OC % and closing the gen. For me those look roughly the same, maybe the first one even a bit faster

[fringe pawn]

I set the first one, then do the rest with ctrl+v

Ctrl+v also works before you've even set the recipe, so that's nice.

[wind spade]

does Ctrl+V also insert shards?

[fringe pawn]

It does

[wind spade]

interesting. That indeed speeds up things a bit, but I still think it's not as much time save 🤔

especially if you include the time to get the shards in the calculation 🤔

[fringe pawn]

I even use ctrl+v when I'm not overclocking, I find it's faster than clicking on a recipe

[frosty owl]

You're missing steps
Open menu, CtrlC+V Vs build foundations, build generator, power it, pipe it

[frosty owl]

Well, we're not including the time to get the materials for the extra generator though 😆

HMFs for the first few fuel gens trickle in quite slow

[wind spade]

why would you have to do CtrlC+V for 100% gen?

[frosty owl]

No, that's the OC case
You paste the clock after you made the generator

Instead of building another one

[wind spade]

that can (and usually is) automated though, not like collecting shards (even if it's with doggo farm, it's still manual work)

[wind spade]

well I just listed the steps that are different 😉

[frosty owl]

If you're considering OC, you ought to have the shards... Much like if you're considering building more gnes you ought to have the materials...
Note that when you reach a new generator tier, you usually have more shards aviable (from previous tiers) then items to actually build said generator

Again, the first fuel gens to make even more HMFs can be quite time consuming

[wind spade]

that's fair, on the other hand, usually you don't want to scale to 80 gens directly after coal so building 4 or 8 gens isn't so big difference anyway and I'd rather have nice numbers than save a few seconds on building 🤷‍♂️ personal preference I guess

[quasi basin]

I just finished my steel foundry with the output of 1080 ingots per minute (so 9 Mk2 belts or 4 Mk3 belts), but I don't really know in what proportions should I make beams and pipes to progress efficiently. Should the beam and pipe output be roughly the same or what ratio should i use?

[wind spade]

best way to figure out the ratio is not figuring the ratio. Build only what you need, don't wild guess what you'll maybe need in the future. Starting from end product is way easier to handle

[quasi basin]

That's a way

[bleak coral]

I always say that bottom-up planning is a wild goose chase. There's no concrete end goal, they're all arbitrary. So without choosing a goal for yourself there's no way to "prepare" for future parts.

[fierce ruin]

when making something in the craftbench, how long is each hammer hit? some fraction of a second. For example if you need to make a stator and its 9 hits to craft it. is each hit around 1/9th a second? I assume each hammer hit is the same length of time for each item. I want to know what that length of time is, just curious

[bleak coral]

Not sure anyone has timed it, manual crafting gets irrelevant really fast so there's not much thought put into

[formal blade]

It seems to me each hammer hit is about 0.25s. So if it's consistent across all recipes, 1 stator would take 2.25s to manually craft.

[frosty owl]

I think the wiki has hand-crafting times for items too

[formal blade]

ah, you're right it does. I saw the hammer icon on recipes, but mousing over it gives the actual manual crafting rate too

[fierce ruin]

thank you

[vapid gorge]

So I was crunching a few numbers and it seemed that the generic aluminum recipes just uses insane amounts of silica? Did I make a mistake here?

[thorn bane]

ye its 1 quartz per 2 bauxite

[formal blade]

Sloppy > Electrode > Pure is my preferred Ingot path for aluminum. I'll gladly spend a little extra bauxite to cut silica out of that chain.

[vapid gorge]

Yeah I was hoping to squeeze some extra aluminum out of the process but the silica cost is prohibitive

I mean... I guess it would ONLY take about 1/3 of the quartz on the map to process all the bauxite with it...

if you use the base one that produces a bit of silica

[formal blade]

Yeah, there's probably a better way to balance it to use a bit of silica, I just didn't feel like dealing with it lol. Thankfully it's not too bad to tap more bauxite

[vapid gorge]

Well... I'm tapping all of it >.>

Go big or go home.

[vapid gorge]

Also the more I look at the coke recipe the less I like it. It only produces a marginal amount more product but at 33% less speed requiring a bunch more refineries. Once again. Fuck them refineries.

[formal blade]

Yeah, I actually wish the instant scrap recipe was better. Seemed like a cool idea to use the blender for it.

The sulfur is kind of a turn off for me

[vapid gorge]

It's great if you don't plan for a large set up

It definitely has a place. Just not for me and not for you from the sounds XD

[formal blade]

I haven't tried it yet. As of now I only don't like it on paper

It definitely depends on your use case. In my current save most of my silica is devoted to silicon circuit board and silicon high-speed-connector.

are you going for a max build of something?

[calm gale]

im "making" 50 wood per min but idk how much biomass/biofuel it makes so is that better or worse then 450 coal per min for power?

[formal blade]

can't really do a good calculation on this because in the end, you have to hand-feed those biomass burners. coal generators win if you want this all automated

[calm gale]

frick was hoping someone would know how much biofuel i was capable of making

[thorn bane]

wood is 937.5MW coal is 2250MW

assuming you turn it into solid biofuel

[calm gale]

ik that but idk how to factor how much biofuel i get from 50 wood per min

yes solid

[formal blade]

do you mean liquid biofuel or solid biofuel?

ok, I see solid

[thorn bane]

50 wood -> 250 biomass -> 125 solid biofuel -> 31.25 generators

[calm gale]

ty

hmm 930mw vs 2300mw now i just need to figure water then i can maybe decide

[thorn bane]

its 125 solid biofuel -> 83 liquid biofuel -> 6.9 fuel generators for 1042MW

[calm gale]

idk how much water coal gens use so

so does any1 know how much water 1 coal gen needs?

[thorn bane]

45

[calm gale]

ok so coal gens are out cause its more then even a mk2 pipe can do

1350 water per min

[thorn bane]

TIL charcoal is better than biocoal
not that i would ever use them
but yeah 50 wood is 500 charcoal or 300 biocoal

[calm gale]

yea id probably pick charcoal but hmm

[thorn bane]

pls just get a coal node xd

[calm gale]

lol

[formal blade]

if you stagger the water extractors you can better distribute the water and not get your flow bottlenecked. there's a nice diagram on the wiki of 3 water extractors feeding 8 coal generators.

[calm gale]

true but ud get max 3 sets of 8 with 6 left over

unless i do the full 500 charcoal then id have a bit of coal left over with 32 coal gens

[thorn bane]

btw its 50 wood -> 500 charcoal -> 33 generators -> 2500MW

so thats actually the best way wow

[formal blade]

yeah too bad we can't automate wood haha

[calm gale]

33,3333 to be exact but duck overflow lol id stick to 32

lol yall technically can but not in vanilla

[thorn bane]

how is charcoal twice as good as liquid biofuel

[calm gale]

more

[oblique hollow]

because liquid biofuel takes so much energy to produce probably

[calm gale]

btw was debating on either beltfed bio burners or coal gens for power from my wood farms

[formal blade]

that sounds like a fun mod

[calm gale]

they are very fun mods

if ure in the modding discord lmk and ill link them for u

[formal blade]

nah it's all good, I am playing vanilla anyway

[calm gale]

lol

[frosty owl]

@calm gale Any chance I can interest you into "perfect ratios" setups? 😏
I call so the setups in which you mess with the clock to get good ratios so you can feed the next few machines with what you just built in small setups and scale them up
Eg: make a setup with smelters each feeding a constructor; constructors make plates and screws for 1/2 RIPs assembler.
Now you can repeat this a few times, add a rods section to the smelting-constructing area and you can try turn it into a modular frame setup...
Dunno if I explained it clearly, but TLDR: if you mess with clocks, you can avoid having to merge many lines and instead feed them directly to the next sage's machines

[calm gale]

i have 1 setup but idk how expandable it is

[frosty owl]

Screen it after you load in

[formal blade]

This is how I do my initial base before I have trains (I don't like stuff laying around in storage containers for item malls, I just grab out of machines)

[calm gale]

@frosty owl ^

[frosty owl]

Yep, that's load balancing 👍

[calm gale]

except idk how expandable they are

[thorn bane]

they are not
thats why manifolds are superior
🙂

[calm gale]

till someone shows me a manifold that doesnt backup wrongly idk

[frosty owl]

Does this count?
#math-and-meta message

[calm gale]

only if none of the outputs bottleneck the rest

[frosty owl]

If there ever were to be too much of a bottleneck, the iron ingots would stop to go through (which they don't) ^^

Eg: so long as you merge a SLOWER belt with a faster one, the slower one won't back up. I used that in this case since the iron ore (manifolded) should flow at ~130/min Vs the less than 60/min ingots going through

And it behaves exactly as planned, manifold included

[calm gale]

hmm

[humble ingot]

I need to get 3/min from a 5/min line, how can i do this

I need it for modular frames

[frosty pawn]

the easiest way is this: whatever machine needs 3/min, fill it with a full stack. then put a smart splitter on the belt that is bringing those items in, set one of the other outputs to overflow, now the machine will take as many as it needs (which is 3/min) and the rest is overflow

if youre making 5/min modular frames it will take you 10 minutes to make a full stack

[humble ingot]

I will now start a caterium factory to get smart splitters

thx so much, you dont know how much this helps

now i got to worry about getting 12 rods/min

[humble ingot]

you are amazing at maths thx

[proven prawn]

I could do a 5 way splitter to extract the exact desired amount.

[frosty pawn]

storage container has 24 slots. if you send 2/min as overflow to storage, it will take 40 hours to fill up

alternatively you can put a storage container in between the machine that makes modular frames and the machine that takes them. if the machine that takes them fills up, the storage container will begin to stock up on the extras. this way you dont need to figure out how to split production so that the extras go to storage

[proven prawn]

Good idea, though if you say need 5 machines supplied constantly with exact amounts it's a good idea to learn 5 way splitters, and then once you understand convergence systems you can use that to extract almost any amounts you want from any system, meaning you wouldn't ever have to wait any system to fill up.

[frosty pawn]

i never make load balancers. manifolds are far easier. they save a lot of time. i always start a manifold with a storage container and let the storage begin to fill up while i build the manifold. when i've finished building all the machines that will use those parts, i take everything out of the storage container and begin filling up the machines manually to kickstart the manifold. storage as a buffer will keep the production and consumption balanced enough that it's pretty much 100% efficient and the whole system has few parts. plus i don't need to worry about forgetting exactly what numbers i used to calculate all the splitting. if the storage ever gets filled up or empty, I know i did something wrong.

[humble ingot]

What is a normal coal power plant's coal intake?

[frosty owl]

The thing he suggested is the way that needs less math of th all though

[frosty pawn]

15/min coal per generator

[humble ingot]

thx

[frosty pawn]

Coal burn time is four seconds, which means that a single Coal Generator consumes 15 Coal/min (60 seconds divide by 4 coal per minute)

[frosty owl]

If one learns using smart splitters and pog splitters properly, I think one can avoid any balancing whatsoever and still have 100% efficiency overall

[thorn bane]

PSA you can fill up storage containers with other items so they overflow sooner (if you dont want 1600 turbomotors for example)

[thorn bane]

that way its only 50 not the whole storage

[frosty pawn]

well my point was if youre making 5 and you only need 3, you wanna put that extra 2 somewhere until youre ready to use it

[proven prawn]

If one only uses a hammer everything will always look like a nail😉

[frosty owl]

My point wanted to be there's no reason to go for balancing over manifolding other than personal preference
There are only very few small things one can do that the other can't

[frosty pawn]

yes, and people keep forgetting that every production machine as a built in buffer of 1 stack for each part that is really useful for managing the flow of parts around the factory

also splitters and mergers have a built in buffer of 8 individual parts that is not visible so it can cause confusion when trying to debug the flow of parts

[proven prawn]

Will guess I should take out all of the balancers in my nuclear setup and manifold it all then, actually why fix what isn't broken, I'll keep it the way it is and manifolds for the rest of the setup.

[thorn bane]

having full belts of nuclear fuel rods is kinda radioactive though xD

[proven prawn]

Nuclear power in general is radioctive and can't exactly be avoided.

[frosty pawn]

if youre making all your nuclear fuel in one location, then transporting it to a huge array of generators, it's the amount of distance along the belts that requires all this manual management of the flow of parts

[thorn bane]

i have 1 of my plants overflowing the other once are balanced and i actually have 0 radiation

as soon as the nuclear powerplants run out they get a new rod so there is actually 0 radiation not even 1 rod

[proven prawn]

Hmm no if I did that I would always be running out of power I can't have my plants running out of rods.

[thorn bane]

no thats not how that works
it consumes the rod and the runs for 5min

while its running for that duration there is no radiation

[proven prawn]

Not to mention im making over 50 rods a minute, so I can only do so much to limit the radiation.

[frosty pawn]

1 manufacturer makes enough uranium fuel rods to feed 2 or 3 power plants depending on which recipe you use. putting the manufacturer next to the power plants that require it means you can use a single splitter for perfect distribution of fuel rods

[proven prawn]

Will doesn't matter for my setup because I rarely need to visit the plants.

[thorn bane]

its running but doesnt have a rod so 0 radiation

[fringe pawn]

looks at his thousands of spare fuel rods and shrugs

[thorn bane]

if you make 50 rods per min and have the 250 plants balanced instead of manifolded youre gonna have 0 radiation
its just a pain to load balance that

[fringe pawn]

Thankfully someone mentioned I should make my nuclear facility walkable while I was building it

[frosty pawn]

if you make 0.6 rods per minute and have 3 power plants, it's super easy to manage that, and then simply duplicate it as many times are you need

[proven prawn]

Aye im not load balancing over 200 npps, my setup works so the radiation shall remain.

[proven prawn]

Right yours is load balanced system, mine is manifold system, hence the extra rods, hence the radiation.

[frosty owl]

Guess why I had part of the powerplant right next to the rods production... :P
It's 3 generators per rod manif iirc

Also because that way it meant I could easily manage the rest of the rods for long range transport: get rods into a drone, arrive, series of 2/3 way SPLITS and done

[calm gale]

dumb question but will 1.32 million steel per min ever be needed?

[thorn bane]

wat

no i dont think 1700 full mk5 belts are required for anything

[calm gale]

hopefully cause with 500 coal per min and a modded steel recipe i could make 1.32 million steel per min

[frosty owl]

If your PC can handle it, that is

[proven prawn]

This is what they make rtx 3090 supers for, the hard tasks

[calm gale]

Sushi i was only asking if its even needed

[fringe pawn]

Oof. I don't even want to imagine the price/performance on a 3090 super.

Unless they discontinue the regular 3090 and slot it into the same price bracket

[frosty owl]

And I was pointing out that I doubt any PC could handle that much production 😆
Maybe with machines outputting like 10x the standard amount... :thinking_helmet:

[calm gale]

lol

btw i did something completely stupid and idk wat to use it for

i made a 930mw battery and idk wat to use it on

[proven prawn]

Don't doubt the power of the rtx 3090 super

[frosty owl]

More of a CPU issue in this case, I think...
Can you even run the game on 2 processors?

[proven prawn]

Good question your very likely to hit a severe cpu bottleneck especially on the rendering side in this case.

[thorn bane]

anyone know if theres a way to have a whole number of refineries for recycled rubber/plastic

[frosty owl]

Fiddling a lot with clock?

[thorn bane]

i dont want a 88.888888% refinery

cause rounding

[frosty owl]

If you make one at 88.8888 and the next at 88.8889 they actually balance out ^^

Anyway... I found it convenient to work with 720 rubber or plastic as output (not including residual rubber)
That makes for some overall clean numbers

[thorn bane]

hm but oil extractors are 300 or 600 not 240

[frosty owl]

If you double it you can split off 120 from a 600 pipe to avoid the full pipe issue and already have enough oil for one more half setup ^^

That was convenient to me, having 600*3 aviable

[oblique hollow]

? just build a whole number

build like 6 and then see how much fuel they need

[thorn bane]

wont that mess with the rubber to plastic ratio

[oblique hollow]

in what way? it just messes with how much output you get

just sink anything you dont need then

[thorn bane]

i kinda want it to run 100% efficient xD

[oblique hollow]

well then you better consume as much plastic and rubber as they produce

[thorn bane]

last time i did it with odd numbers and it was a nightmare having to count how many rubber/plastic i need per input

[oblique hollow]

theres no point in setting up recycled if you arent even going to use it

[formal blade]

run a diluted fuel blender @ 90%, that's 90m3 fuel/min, exactly enough for 3 recycled plastic or 3 recycled rubber

[thorn bane]

i think if you use 100% of it though and dont have the right amount of refineries your gonna end up having too much plastic result in less rubber or vice versa

[frosty owl]

Yep, and that's why I now always go for 720/min as output (or anyway, multiples of 180)

[oblique hollow]

theres a reason why you sink overflow. a single recycled refinery turn 30 of rubber or plastic into 60 of the other

so the ratio between refineries is 1 to 1: 1 reccled rubber per 1 recycled plastic

[thorn bane]

no you remerge the overflow with the output line

that way you dont waste any

[oblique hollow]

idc what you do. just use it

if you dont use that much plastic or rubber, then there is no point in setting them both up

[thorn bane]

my last design:

[oblique hollow]

oh residual is a different story. theres no way to avoid decimals when you merge it like that

i did the math

[thorn bane]

oh rip

[frosty owl]

I say: do you really need to use the residual rubber to kickstart the loop?
Because that's what Fs up the numbers badly 🙄

[oblique hollow]

you add the rubber afterwards so you dont mess with the ratio

[thorn bane]

ooooh i just got what you meant

[oblique hollow]

so first recycled, then merge the residual rubber with the output

thats much more linear

recycled is usually isolated so they only feed each other

[formal blade]

to add to my previous: 2 diluted fuel blender @ 90%, one feeding 3 recycled plastic, one feeding 3 recycled rubber, that's 180 of ea of output, split the output to feed the input of the other (30+30+30), sink overflow, duplicate the setup depending on how much you need

sometimes I'll bootstrap with some residual, but I rip it out after there's material circulating in there

[oblique hollow]

i made a spreadsheet calc for doing recycled setups with extra input in the form of residual rubber. it always leads to a skewed ratio of rubber to plastic refineries and many decimals

so there is no real point in that complexity

you dont gain that much from it

[frosty owl]

I usually go for blenders at 90 too, as it needs just a slight OC on the HOR refinery behind to get a 1:1

[formal blade]

yup

[frosty owl]

Though now that I think of it...
Oh God, I should stay away from 1:1 fluid feeds and manifold them all of I want perfect efficiency because... Load bug

Damn, that's a lot of work...

Wow, I'm just considering how many pipes I could save not caring about the load bug and just doing 1:1 feeds wherever possible... That's such an undertaking
Please fix the load bug in U5 CS... Please 🙏

[formal blade]

I forget the details of the load bug. fluid loss when you load the game?

[oblique hollow]

yes. 5m³ from any pipe connected to a machine port

so if you have 100 fuel gens, you magically lose 500 m³

(actually more since the refineries that make the fuel also count)

[formal blade]

ah, I never noticed much, but I had fluid storage

wait, I noticed some odd behavior in my coal gens though

[frosty owl]

So a refinery feeding HOR to another will eventually start the game with no HOR to send making the next machine starve for a while :/

[formal blade]

water seemed to go missing, so I just slight OC a couple extractors

[oblique hollow]

its very noticable in setups that have closed loops.

like some aluminum setups

[thorn bane]

that looks like decent numbers

[frosty owl]

I prefer the 540-fuel version (or anyone that stays below 600) to stay away from max capacity, but those are indeed some nice numbers...
Crazy how clean it gets as soon as you take the residual rubber out of the picture, huh?

[oblique hollow]

using residual in theory increases total yield, but also makes everything a lot uglier

so its not worth it in that regard if you ask me

[frosty owl]

You can always just merge it to the output, so why bother

[thorn bane]

seems like the amount of recycled rubber is 17/27*plastic+8/27*rubber and recycled plastic is 7/27*plastic+17/27*rubber
so if we for example set both of those to 100 we get https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(17%2F27)*a%2B(8%2F27)*b%3D600%3B%3D(7%2F27)*a%2B(16%2F27)*b%3D600 so output is 600 plastic and 750 rubber

[formal blade]

one time I tried to balance it between residual rubber and residual plastic, but then I decided it wasn't clean enough cause the resin consumption per minute doesn't match between those two receipes

[thorn bane]

you always use residual rubber right?

[formal blade]

so, I use it for bootstrap at best, then I rip it out

I use residual rubber temporarily to bootstrap the system, then I pull it out after recycled rubber is up and running

[oblique hollow]

residual rubber has the highest material yield per resin

residual plastic (the recipe used in the teaser today) is kinda ass

[formal blade]

yeah I wish they just had the same resin consumption

I guess I could convert the resin to fabric instead of sinking it

I really don't care to have residual rubber in the loop after it's up and running, it just looks uglier

to be fair my whole oil setup at the time was ugly lol

[frosty owl]

Too bad I need all the rubber I can, else I'd gladly turn all the resin in fabric just to rule it out of the equation

[thorn bane]

ehm

thats with residual rubber

i think i like those numbers

having 720 oil does indeed give nice numbers

if i go with 600 oil i always get 1 refinery at 1/3 for some reason

[frosty owl]

Yeah, but you're keeping the residual out of the loop ^^

[frosty owl]

@wind spade On a more technical note...
Do you think this could a a good way to judge "how bad" the tick loss in a certain save&system is?
Merge 2 different items on one belt (eg: 2 MK3 in a mk5 belt), making sure they never stop
Split the belt
Check if the 2 pure belts coming out of the split change item kind over time (when there's a tick loss at the wrong time, they might)
Lower tier or higher tier belts could be used to fine-tune how impactful the tick losses are

The splitter should be a normal one

[gloomy palm]

@oblique hollow

[oblique hollow]

i mean it doesnt work so.....

[gloomy palm]

a e s t h e t i c

[oblique hollow]

the refinery will ignore them anyway

and just smoke down there

[gloomy palm]

shh

[oblique hollow]

imo its worse if the smoke clips through the pipe

[gloomy palm]

refinery makes steam anyway

[oblique hollow]

i always leave air gaps for my refinery chimneys

[gloomy palm]

no not that kind of steam

[oblique hollow]

epic steam

[gloomy palm]

xD

so anyway, fun fact you can place pipe support on chimneys

and there you have it

[oblique hollow]

i always leave roof gaps

[gloomy palm]

ah

[oblique hollow]

can also be incorperated into the design: the zigzag roof parts are where the refinery chimneys are

[gloomy palm]

ahhah

looks like for coal this is borked, the hitbox is too high to allow a pipe support to attach to the chimney 😦

and of course the smoke just comes out the side lel

[frosty owl]

If you leave too little a gap between the refinery and the foundation above, the smoke might bend below the foundation, ruining the effect

[gloomy palm]

o

[gloomy palm]

do u think it would be a useful feature to request chimney accessories or such?

could move all the smoke and stuff outside if the machines are indoors

[fierce ruin]

Is this endgame? I can’t wait! I’be finally begun working on making a flat area to produce materials

Also it looks beautiful and very fancy

[oblique hollow]

not even

its just oil

i make fuel and plastic and rubber in there

[fierce ruin]

I found crude oil a while back but went past if because I’m only at coal/quartz

That looks amazing

[oblique hollow]

thank you

[fierce ruin]

I look at my setup and it looks like you’re in another game lol

[oblique hollow]

its actually a relatively small setup

[fierce ruin]

Really?

[oblique hollow]

i make like.... 120 fuel?

[fierce ruin]

Dang

[oblique hollow]

from 4 diluted packaged fuel refineries

[fierce ruin]

You got any free time? I’m looking to learn about power and would be happy to show u my factory setup

I’m at the coal stage

[oblique hollow]

eh, sure, dm me

or post here if you dont mind

[fierce ruin]

If not np I’m thinking inviting to my game if you want

[oblique hollow]

up to you

[brave quiver]

does anybody know why last generators are not getting enough water to run?
I have 8 generators consuming 45 m3/min connected to 4 water pump extracting 120 m3/min each. I'm supposes to be +120 m3/min but last generators almost doesn't receive water

[bleak coral]

well I see you mixed pipe types, so I'd go through and make sure there's not a mk1 where you need a mk2

[brave quiver]

I will replace all of them for mk2 and try!

[bleak coral]

be extra vigilant around the junctions, they like to hide itty-bitty sections of pipe

[boreal quiver]

do the bits that say 9.50x constructor and such mean 9.5 constructors? and if so would i just underclock one to 50%

[shrewd matrix]

yes or over clock one to 150%

[boreal wyvern]

Or run 10 constructors at 95%

[fierce ruin]

what is this application or where do these graphs come from?

[boreal quiver]

cheers

if u look in pinned there are tools for planning

[thorn bane]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production

[lean breach]

schmutziger fetter Junge

[wind spade]

english only server 😉

[toxic compass]

and you don't want that translation

[oblique hollow]

ugh

[smoky bison]

Question:
Iv got 6 belts of copper ingots (mk5) that add up to 5 fully utalized mk5 belts, I'm being a small brain on how to balance these into 5 belts?
👉 👈

[thorn bane]

easiest wait if you dont want to think about it is probably

but having full 780 belts is kinda a bad idea because of lag
id probably just keep the 6 belts

[torpid robin]

I’d agree keep with the 6 belts just to make sure you won’t lose any throughput

The more mk5 belts that aren’t full the better pretty much

[frosty pawn]

you have upward sloped pipes going into each generator from the main pipe. this is bad. each generator has to wait for its connected pipe to fill up before it can take any water out because the water settles at the bottom of the pipe and with all of the other generators' pipes also going up, there will be a lot of sloshing water.
i very much recommend rearranging the pipes so that the main pipe is above the splitters and the connecting pipes slope down into the generators. this way when water comes in from the water extractors, the first generator will have to fill up before water can proceed to the next one.
also, just a bonus, with the pipes on top you can see the flow indicators better.

[frosty owl]

Eh, why not 🤷‍♂️

[gloomy palm]

nice

[urban roost]

when you say 'lag' do you mean in terms of game performance or in terms of logistics?

[thorn bane]

logistics

[urban roost]

Can you elaborate on that? Like lag between the usage at the destination and the belt being filled up?

[thorn bane]

afaik mk5 belts have less throughput than 780 but others can probably tell you more

[torpid robin]

Each segment loses throughput

So I guess having a 780 is fine for like 1 segment lol

The more the worse is i@ guessing worse

[wind spade]

yeah, though the loss is on max throughput, so you should be fine using mk5s with like 730-740 ipm

there's pretty much no reason to max belts in this game anyway (unless you already have a maxed belt)

[torpid robin]

Exactly

Unless out of a miner

And I guess just make it one segment and you’d be fine . Get it into train or split it ASAP

[proper scarab]

So I’m having trouble wrapping my head around aluminum productions extra water. I’m using the sloppy aluminum recipe so I don’t have to deal with silica. And I have 5 refineries that need 200 water each. The 5 refineries they plug into produce 120 water. So 80 times 5 is 400. So I reduced my 1000 water input down to 400 from my water extractors and I still have a water bottle neck were so constantly have to flush my whole system to keep the aluminum flowing. I’ve even reduced my coming from the extractors down to 225. And I still have to flush my pipes to keep aluminum going. What’s going on here?

[minor thunder]

it's possible that the output water is backing up, and the build is in fact underperforming slightly, which just ends up making it worse. You could probably fix it with some valves that prevent the water from flowing back into the output.

Basically, you need to make sure that the water you add to the system flows only to the inputs, not to the outputs.

[torpid robin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/ookl0c/psa_variable_input_priority_vip_for_pipes_exist/

do this to allow the extractors to top up whats needed

you need to give your refineries prioity for the water output. as above said. the water is backing up

[proper scarab]

I have valves after each output to make sure it doesn’t back flow

[swift robin]

i think you only need one right before the junction where recycled water and fresh water meet

[proper scarab]

I just don’t know where the extra water is coming from. 120 *5 is 600 water. I need 1000 water for my first 5 refineries. So I down my water extractor I put from 1000 to 400. Ans then recently down to 225. And I still have a water back up.

I feel like I should have a water deficient but I’m still making so much it’s backing up. I don’t have any of the refineries overclocked. Just odd

[swift robin]

idk what to tell ya

i tried to prioritize my aluminum setup with the VIP pipe idea above before but it didnt work for some reason

so i ended up piping the recycled water past the fresh water input into the manifold for the solppy alumina refineries so that the recycled gets injected into the line after the fresh has been consumed and that started working lol

[minor thunder]

It's not that there is "extra" water, it's just that if even for a split second, your build stops, the inflow of water doesn't stop, so it'll grow unbalanced over time if either the inputs are ever not fully saturated or the outputs are ever blocked.

One thing you could try is to have 400 water feed into 2 refineries, and then the water output of all refineries goes into the other 3 refineries.

Not sure if it's totally impossible for that to back up though. You might still need a pump leading out of the 3 indirectly supplied refineries just to make sure the outputs never run full.

[fierce ruin]

2 coal miners set to 2 overclock each (200%), mk. 2 belts leading to 16 coal power generators with 6 water collectors powers 1200MW. The ratio for water collector to coal power generator seems to be 3/8. A friend helped me with that and it’s been tremendous help.

Learned this today while playing and figured I’d share it as it has helped my noob self learn to manage. We building up slowly but we’re doing nonetheless.

[analog thorn]

How many iron mines do I need to make efficient rotors?

[bleak coral]

that's not relevant, you just scale your setup to whatever the input for your ore is
also nodes have purities which changes their parts per minute, so you can't do ratios for miners cause that changes

[proper scarab]

I’ll give thar a try today thanks!

[molten whale]

which takes less uranium? encased plutonium cell or instant plutonium cell

[thorn bane]

!wikisearch Encased Plutonium Cell

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Encased Plutonium Cell

[thorn bane]

instant recipe uses less uranium

[molten whale]

thanks i kept on getting diffrent results

[analog thorn]

How do I balance 3 water gens for 8 coal factories?

[deft lichen]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/satisfactory_gamepedia_en/images/1/1b/Coal_Generator_Schematic.png/revision/latest?cb=20210729150625

[solid portal]

first one is generally easiest

[tropic hawk]

by rate of ease to setup, 1 is easiest, 3 is mid, 2 is hard

[lament jolt]

So recently I decided to set up a massive building to collect every raw solid resource on the map. I've built one station so far, 12 freight cars each with a mix of dedicated miners. Any advantage to using multiple trains in one direction versus a back to back train? I typically set up a train to act like a ferry, only going on a fixed route with each end facing the 2 stations. My raw ore storage site will house every resource (except uranium) the game has. I think it will exceed 2000 ISCs worth of ore when full. Mk5 belts, and all miners Mk3, sharded to either 780 or 600 or 300 for the impure. I know its a lot of work, and maybe not efficient...

[tropic hawk]

Point 1: Central locations are not very efficent for raw resource handling
Point 2: For trains, multiple trains on a single loop is best to get a high throughput, just don't do anything weird with the trains that causes them to overlap, and don't use a push-pull system

[lament jolt]

I was planning on having like 3 to 4 trains per biome, each with stations in line, but not connected except for the track between them. In the past I've messed with using spacers to keep stations neat, and my trains got weird

Oh, there will be dedicated factories for all the tier 1-4 stuff, with trains or drones ferrying everything out to the separate factories

[tropic hawk]

I would reccomend looking up the wiki for trains so you can do the math for the item throughput of each train so you know how many you need per line.

[rich cipher]

Can I ask a math question that’s not satisfactory related?

[rich cipher]

I need to find the base of this isosceles triangle and can't figure out how to word it so that google understands me....

[fierce ruin]

Don't google it

Symbolab has a geometry calculator

[wind spade]

What's the star?

[magic sparrow]

Notice how it's two right angle triangles in a trenchcoat.

[lilac skiff]

What's is that 2.5

[rich cipher]

Top angle is 2.5 degrees. Height is 3mi

[wind spade]

ah

would be better if you'd use the degree symbol then 🙂

°

[rich cipher]

My b

[thorn bane]

sorry but how is that angle in that picture 2.5°

[wind spade]

I assume it was just a schema to show what the problem was

if you'd draw a real 2.5° angle, then you wouldn't see a triangle, just a line that gets thicker

[thorn bane]

ye exactly

[wind spade]

still, the solution is in the image I sent 🤷‍♂️

[tropic hawk]

number one rule of textbooks: all pictures are not to scale

[oblique hollow]

General math would be then:
Base = 2 * cos (alpha/2) * 3 mi

[tropic hawk]

and is the 2.5 deg angle for the two rights, or for the iso?

[thorn bane]

idk i just assumed theres no way they mean 2.5°

[rich cipher]

Yes lol. I just made the triangle in paint cause I couldn’t put it in words

2.5 for the whole triangle. I have a wireless antenna that is going to be broadcasting a wireless signal with a beam width of 2.5° and I need to know how wide that wireless signal would be after it has traveled for 3 miles

[thorn bane]

huh? pretty sure its arctan

[rich cipher]

So really it’s actually a cone that we’re finding the base of. But I feel like the triangle works for this as well when I can just translate base of the triangle into diameter of the cone

[wind spade]

2*0.06546 miles

[rich cipher]

The first one @oblique hollow

[oblique hollow]

Right

[oblique hollow]

Oops, yeah

Also... Wait... No.
Tan, not arctan

Base/2 = opposite, 3.5 mi = adjacent

Cos or Tan should work then

..... Or better just Tan

[rich cipher]

I honestly did not ever take trigonometry in high school. So I’m glad y’all can help me out

[tropic hawk]

its geometry, not trig

[oblique hollow]

.... Yeah it should be Tan.
Base = 6* Tan(1.25)

[thorn bane]

"Trigonometry (...) is a branch of mathematics that studies relationships between side lengths and angles of triangles. "

[oblique hollow]

Its Trigonometry. Which is a part of geometry

[thorn bane]

ye youre right

[torpid robin]

the closest i got to this is school is 3,4,5 . or well Pythagorean theorem . and i only use it to make sure my set out is square when building 😂

wait is 3,4,5 that. shit idunno its too late for this lol

[rich cipher]

translating all of this the diameter of the base of the cone im finding is 691.2576 feet. thanks @wind spade for an easy to read answer. What site is that?

[molten whale]

does anyone know the most nuclear pasta possible it would be funny to have a lot

[wind spade]

random google site for "online sine calculator", probably like 5th link, went through a few of them to get a site with graphical thingy

[rich cipher]

Thanks

[thorn bane]

@humble ingot if you underclock 4 coal generators to 100*((6.25)/(7.143))^(1.3) ~ 84% you can feed them with 1 compacted coal assembler

[fierce ruin]

I'm trying to start to use satisfactory tool, but I'm finding it a little bit confusing, which of the pinned planners do you guys recommend?

[thorn bane]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production

[fierce ruin]

I'll try to make tabs for each factory, but I'm getting confused on the inputs I should use when making tabs for rotor, modular frame, rip and smart plating. How can I easily visualise which factories I can merge?

[thorn bane]

xD
i dont realy use the input tab i mostly use it for either the whole map or certain factories from basic parts

[fierce ruin]

why is there a material that you use 8 tabs?

[thorn bane]

thats just the symbol the factories are different

[fierce ruin]

oh, nice

[wind spade]

you can change the icon if you want 😉

it's done to easily distinguish between your tabs. When you hover over the tab, the name of the tab is shown (which you also can change)

[thorn bane]

oh nice didnt know that ty

[fierce ruin]

currently I'm with a non modular factory building rotor, rip and smart plating, but it's getting confusing af and I can't expand it without breaking my mind. I think I'll rebuild it and try modularizing stuff

[wind spade]

it's one of the well hidden QOL features I guess 🤷‍♂️

[thorn bane]

ive spend insane amount of hours just moving stuff around on that site xD
#screenshots message

[fierce ruin]

wtf, is this only one of your factories?

[thorn bane]

nah thats like the factory

that was a new save with the goal to complete the space elevator

[fierce ruin]

then you modularized that?

[thorn bane]

end result is #screenshots message

[wind spade]

oh god... I really have to implement the thing where it remembers the positions when you move it around 🙂 (it's in the works, but a lot of the tools has to be rewritten, so it's part of that big task)

[thorn bane]

didnt turn out 100% like the planner but mostly

[fierce ruin]

insane

[thorn bane]

yes pleeeeaaase

[wind spade]

estimate of the work remaining on the tool is still like 1 month at least though

but I'm trying really hard to finish it asap

[thorn bane]

nice its an awesome tool 🙂

[wind spade]

there'll be some beta-testing phase as soon as it's usable

[humble ingot]

thx

[wind spade]

not sure what's that formula, but it's wrong. Generators don't do ^(1.3), but ^(1/1.3)

[bleak coral]

That's the formula for converting production rate to clock speed, and it is indeed correct

[wind spade]

it isn't correct for coal gen 🤔

[frosty owl]

[bleak coral]

it's the inverse function of the one that uses ^(1.3), that one takes clock speed and gives production rate

[wind spade]

but... they put it into clock speed field

[bleak coral]

sorry typo, I meant the one that uses ^(1/1.3) not ^(1.3)

[wind spade]

they put the formula into a clock speed field, meaning it should be a formula that produces clock speed, right?

[bleak coral]

no, the formulas just look similar, this is the one they used

[wind spade]

then I'm totally confused by this message ^

[bleak coral]

just instead of operation rate/100 they used the ppm desired/ppm at 100% to get the operation rate in decimals

[bleak coral]

I got that formula by inversing the formula for production rate from clock speed, which uses the ^(1/1.3) (also that message had a typo like I said)

so this part gets the actual production rate in decimals right?

so the production rate in percentages from clock speed would be:

production rate = 100 x (clock speed/100)^(1/1.3)

and you can just solve for production rate to be able to do the opposite

[signal nimbus]

I keep telling myself that the solid steel ingot is guranteed to be in the first 18 hard drives (current progression/research) and I'm over halfway there... but every time I get the list and it has pure iron ingot on there, I get a bit annoyed.

[fierce ruin]

Yeah. Pure recipes being on rotation before you even get to Refineries needs to be fixed before 1.0.

[signal nimbus]

nods

[bleak coral]

general pass done for checking for if machines are unlocked is needed

the alloy recipes have the same issue

along with anything that moves something from a less complicated machine to a more complicated one, though that's usually constructors to assemblers so it's not as noticeable

[fierce ruin]

Do you get alloy ones before the Foundry? I never noticed.

[signal nimbus]

Yeah, I noticed. At least those aren't horribly out of place, though. It's not that long between Tier 1 and Tier 3, but Tier 3 and Tier 5 are a ways apart.

[bleak coral]

nothing checks to make sure you have the machine for it, just that you have the parts unlocked

[fierce ruin]

Oof

[signal nimbus]

But not even all the parts... refinery recipes start at Tier 3, but you have (say for Pure Copper Ingot) copper ingots unlocked at the start.

...oh my gosh... fine concrete, wet concrete, and a black powder recipe. Haven't even researched black powder yet.

[fierce ruin]

if i have 4 smelters making 30 iron eahc per minute i get 120 iron per minute and i use mk2 converyer belt which moes 120 item /min but it gets clogged up wat i do no

[signal nimbus]

Did you overclock?

[bleak coral]

that's super weird, I wonder if it's really just a typo on all of them in the code

like they typed 3 instead of 5 somewhere

[signal nimbus]

If that's how they did it, they did it for the alloys too.

[bleak coral]

at least according to the wiki, the alloys don't even check for anything, they're just there from the beginning

[signal nimbus]

That's why I'm thinking they don't do those checks at all. Except... maybe research for a couple of them?

[bleak coral]

🤷‍♂️

There's definitely milestone and MAM checks, they just don't all make sense and/or aren't comprehensive enough

[signal nimbus]

True.

[bleak coral]

speaking of which, can you double check if supercomputers are unlocked with T7 milestone aeronautical engineering?

need to fix something on the wiki, but want to be sure

and am away from my gaming computer

[signal nimbus]

Yep.

Specifically that one and not Aeronautical Engineering 2 if that makes a difference?

[bleak coral]

it does, thank you very much!

[signal nimbus]

Np!

[bleak coral]

wait what's aeronautical engineering 2?

[signal nimbus]

Screenshots.

[bleak coral]

oh I don't think that's actually in game

[signal nimbus]

Nope, but... I have no idea if it's a separate coded thing and that makes a difference.

[bleak coral]

I think my favorite I've found mismatched prerequisites is the Electric Motor alt

cause it needs control rods, but you can get it if you have aeronautical engineering for some reason

which it doesn't need anything from that milestone

[fierce ruin]

Electric Turbo I can get behind.
Electric Motor I just.. can't.

[bleak coral]

I'll be honest I didn't even know it existed until today

or I forgot about it

[fierce ruin]

Rigour just better imo.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[bleak coral]

related what's with elecotromagnetic connection rod? it's faster but it switches AI limiters for HSCs, which are way more complicated and power hungry

[fierce ruin]

Not sure if they think that in depth when making the recipe? Like how else would you make an electric motor alt?