math-and-meta

[sand epoch]

ah.. saw pic... idk.. 20-30hrs..?

[hollow juniper]

starting one

yeah its hot

the factory fuelling it can be summed up with "3am coffee" so i wont show that

[frosty owl]

Assuming you manifolded the rods, it'd be ~4h if you left the generators OFF. With them on, Zedisious' estimate is probably good. The last 2 take forever to fill

[glacial hemlock]

For extremely low throughput items like nuclear rods, it could be good to use balancers

[wind spade]

sure. On the other hand, usually you don't need all the power immediately, so you're fine with it taking a long time

[glacial hemlock]

With manifolds, just keep the NPPs off until they are filled to reasonable amount else they really take forever to fill

[wind spade]

20 hours for 100 NPPs seems decent

in two hours, 42 of them are already working at 100%

[glacial hemlock]

42. The answer of everything

[fringe pawn]

I balanced my uranium and plutonium rod output lines by having dedicated manufacturers. But everything feeding the rod manufacturers, and the underlying components, was a manifold.

[fierce ruin]

In the end-game, is there ever a point where your first step in oil is not using the HOR alt recipe?

[frosty owl]

Nope
A bit sad, but also a bit cool

[frosty owl]

Same. Even if my gens are away from production, I just ship the rods away in amounts that are easy to split (eg: merge 6 manifacturers to feed 18 gens)

[fierce ruin]

I'm conflicted about whether the recipe is balanced honestly, given it just obsoletes so many things in that chain and is basically a must-use.
Not my decision to make though.

[frosty owl]

I think it's fine
You got plenty of routes before ending up with the HOR one for everything anyway

Also, there's still time to add more products with different requirements
For instance, if they added something requiring a humongous amount of poly resin, the poly alt may shine once more

[fierce ruin]

I mean, if you roll it immediately off a hard drive you're pretty much locked into using it for the rest of the game because everything else is worse.

[frosty owl]

Nah, you need quite a few alts before you can fully make use of it
Just for recycled plastic and rubber you need at least 3 alts, there's not such a big chance of finding them all in succession

If you just find the HOR recipe alone you only have a good way to make coke 😆

[fierce ruin]

Fair but I can't think of a single other recipe that dominates in the same way.

Off the top of my head the only real other uncontested best-in-slot option is Heavy Encased Frames. But that's a complicated alternate involving multiple other base or alternate recipes to get produce. Whereas HOR is just Oil -> BAM YOU'RE USING IT.

[frosty owl]

Some recipes are just plain better than the standard... Like cast screws over standard, no reason to use standard if you have cast 🤷‍♂️
Also copper sheets and fused quickwire come to mind

Though fused quickwire may not be good for everyone due to the copper consumption

[fierce ruin]

Cast screws is better than base but you still have steel screws and just going screw-less as alternatives.

[frosty owl]

You also have plastic and rubber-less recipes ^^

[fierce ruin]

Quickwire and fused quickwire are still competitive based on available resources.

HOR alt as I said just absolutely dominates its production chain in a way that nothing else does.

[frosty owl]

To me, it's kind of like a pure recipe for ores 🤷‍♂️

Put extra effort and extra power for extra output

[fierce ruin]

Alloy recipes are still useful depending on available resources though.

And if the copper/iron you're fusing to make the alloy is "free" because you're not using it for anything else, alloy recipes are better than pure ones.
Which makes them competitive.

[frosty owl]

I don't see your point here... While pure is an overall win, the alloys aren't as efficient as pure, just add convenience based on ore aviablity. Eg: your example
In the same perspective, you're not forced to use the HOR recipe, you can make X plastic/rubber much faster and Wirth less power using the standard recipe, if you can spare the oil

[fierce ruin]

Alloys can be better as I said, that's situational.

[frosty owl]

"Faster" in set up time

[frosty owl]

Yeah, just like the standard recipe for rubber plastic can be better than the HOR route
If you can spare the ore/oil, both save you a lot of building time and power
They're still both less efficient than the pure or HOR route though

[fierce ruin]

I don't that equivalence because either way the oil to rubber/plastic ratio is always better in the HOR route.
Whereas with the alloys the specific ore to ingot ratio is better, but the overall ore to ingot ratio is better for pure.

So there are 2 perspectives to consider for ores/ingots.
Whereas with oil products because it all comes down to just oil-per-thing, there isn't competition.

Water is basically infinite and power-per-thing isn't really a factor people consider when you can make everything in the game at high volumes while still having MW left over.

[frosty owl]

If you only look at it in a ore-per-item perspective, both pure and HOR are no-brainer. But why would you even consider the alloy then, since it's still worse than the pure?

If you instead take into account power needed and time needed, each route has a different value
Eg: if you're making less than 200 plastic/min, there is no other reason to set up a HOR setup rather than "resource efficiency" . Unless you focus only on resource efficiency, the standard recipe can get you that much from a normal node with very little time invested

[fierce ruin]

(Just to clarify: not really a "thing I am trying to get" out of this discussion. As it's somewhat a moot point and the devs make the decisions on recipes and such - I'm sure they have talked about it internally at length)

[frosty owl]

Oh, and here I thought we were gonna change the recipes balance for good

[fierce ruin]

Alloy is situationally BETTER than pure as I stated. Take iron.
Pure is 1:1.857, where the alloy (concerning IRON) is 1:2.5
So if among your available resources you are not using the copper for anything else, the copper is essentially "free" in the equation for comparison.

That situational-ness makes the alloy recipes competitive with the pure one, so you do have multiple "best" options.

[frosty owl]

Oh, I didn't notice it had a better ratio than the pure (that's how much I used those recipes 😅)
Yeah, your point makes sense to me now

[fierce ruin]

Iron is the one that does that, I just checked copper and pure is just uncontested best.
So maybe instead of wondering why HOR is uncontested best, my question should be "why is the pure iron recipe an anomaly?"

Because it has that situational-ness, but HOR, pure copper, pure caterium, etc. do not.

[frosty owl]

Atm, it would make more sense for the copper recipe to be the one giving extra copper out of alloy ahahah

[fierce ruin]

Which means now I am wracking my brain as to whether pure iron needs to be buffed (dumb given how much iron there is) or the other recipes need to be nerfed to give those multiple "best" pathways to everything.

I am a strong advocate of there being a theoretical uncontested best, but multiple practical bests.
And iron seems to be the only thing fitting that mold atm.

lol

[wind spade]

That's the case with pretty much any good alt recipe tho (e.g. stitched plates)

[frosty owl]

To me, it's more annoying how fused quickwire takes less caterium than the fused wire -.- (ratio-wise)

1:5 Vs 1:4

[fierce ruin]

More Discord servers need a channel dedicated to doing math while doing meth.

[frosty owl]

I think you misspelled "meta"

[fierce ruin]

No no, just "maths". Meth is fine. 😏

Totally does not also play Drug Dealer Simulator

I used to play this a lot in the 90s. https://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/druglord

[mint hemlock]

isnt copper alloy mixed with pure iron better for math

i only say this cos 25 + 35 is 60

[fierce ruin]

Can you explain that with more words?

[mint hemlock]

wait never mind i realise that alloy ingot can resolve itself in terms of math

i dislike pure iron ingot solely because it takes 35 ore per minute , it takes longer to math out a good system

[fierce ruin]

Tools = Instant Math for Any System

[mint hemlock]

yea but math is like the fun part

i totally did not build a 6 HMF per minute base to use my 30 Encased frames

at like the start of my run

[frosty owl]

If you don't mind too much the slight inefficiency, you can process 780/min iron ore with 22 refineries and a smelter outputting 10/min

[mint hemlock]

ANGY, 100% or nothing brother

[frosty owl]

Looks kinda cool as you can have the refineries on the sides divided by the single smelter

Else you just replace the smelter with a refinery and fiddle the clock 🤷‍♂️

[mint hemlock]

well i really dont want to underclock anything? makes it more fun to math

[fierce ruin]

I still have to do math after Tools.

[mint hemlock]

if i need to scale up ill scale it up

[fierce ruin]

Involving underclocks.
Like if something calls for 9.73 buildings, I am building an even 10 then splitting that 973% between them.

[frosty owl]

What's that, 100% efficiency and clock challenge?
If you fiddle with clocks freely you can make some really crazy stuff

[mint hemlock]

ill only clock miners lol

or ammo

but that thats a seperate system that i have to manually put in shit

[frosty owl]

.... Imagine sharing a Discord link to have it blocked....

[mint hemlock]

eh fun fact crater lake coal nodes math perfectly with the 45 coal per minute AND the 40 coal per minute of the solid steel alt

^this is without overclock so kind early game ish

[frosty owl]

||Found the workaround|| I mean some really crazy and fun stuff
#math-and-meta message

[mint hemlock]

(240*3)=720
720/45= 16

u noe i never realised that cast screws are literally the same amount of screws per ingot

until like just now

i still dont have it by the way

[frosty owl]

And I never realized until little ago how manifacturers could be fed by a single belt... This game can mindblow us many times ahahah

[mint hemlock]

yea i hate doing that

[frosty owl]

Doing what?

[mint hemlock]

multiple items on the same belt

Also i have realised the maths for the alloy alt

Mk2 at 250% = 600
600 copper per minute = 12 Furnace
Iron: 25*12=300
Mk3 Iron at 150% = 720
720-300=420 (AYYYYY)
Pure iron: 420/35=12
12 refinery

nice round numbers

[fierce ruin]

Doesn't always carry forward down the production tree though.

[mint hemlock]

who else hates the crystal oscillator alt

[fierce ruin]

Can't be me because I have a post making 105/min of them.

It's so much better than baseline recipe.

[mint hemlock]

THIS IS BAD FOR MATH

[wind spade]

underclocking ftw

[mint hemlock]

theres 4 dam decimals

[fierce ruin]

And?

[wind spade]

I only see 3 decimals

[mint hemlock]

i meant 4 items with decimals

[fierce ruin]

Check what it is used into though.
Because that part is clean AF.

[wind spade]

decimals are not a big deal. And you want to underclock to match ratios anyway

[fierce ruin]

Like Insulated Oscillator to Crystal Computer is 1:1 iirc

[mint hemlock]

i would be ok cos the ratio is 1:1.5 but the output is also 2.8125

[fierce ruin]

Or you can split it 4 ways and take 3/4 to Crystal Computers and the other 1/4 to RCUs to make a 50/50 split of both.

[wind spade]

you can also just calculate using some of the online tools and use the result 🤷‍♂️ numbers are not always nice

[fierce ruin]

There are a lot of .875 and .125 instances in the game.

Even when you get to 3rds and such, if you have multiple machines just clock some to +1 and some to -1 to even it out.

Like my oil setup has a lot of .875's
Across 60 machines.
So I just have 30 at .87 and 30 at. 88 @mint hemlock

[bleak coral]

Also those are just done in 8ths, it's not like an irrational number or even a weird fraction. So you can make them in batches of 8 machines and the numbers all become integers.

[fierce ruin]

I don't think anything inherently has a repeating decimal in it as far as items/min or just items/cycle.

[frosty owl]

I just set the output to a multiple of 1 :P (usually 3/min is my preference as it scale nicely)

[keen patio]

Is it generally acceptable to use Caterium Circuitboard AND Caterium Computers as an efficient use of map resources (given scarcity), or should I be avoiding caterium in 1 of them?

[fierce ruin]

In total map resources you would have to ask Lund.
In outpost resources - is fine.

[keen patio]

I guess my concern is 'am I going to run out of quickwire if I do this?' .. I mathed out that I can get .. I think it was 84.9 x 780belts of quickwire..

[fierce ruin]

Fused Quickwire OP AF

[bleak coral]

computer stuff is like the main use of caterium

[keen patio]

I am using that, that 84.9 was WITH fused (and pure cat) quickwire

[fierce ruin]

Also Crystal Computers are amazing for saving on Caterium.

[bleak coral]

gotta use rare resources and save them for something

[keen patio]

ah, High speed connectors; Im using a TON of these and they also use caterium.. which is why I was getting concerned.

[bleak coral]

computers are a good spot to switch between caterium and quartz depending on what else you're making, cause caterium/quartz circuit boards and computers are both pretty good

even the wiki doesn't pick between them and shows all the combinations

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Computer#Alternate_recipes_analysis

[unkempt acorn]

ok i dont get pipes...
I have i pump right there on the vertical, yes it is powered.
The vertical pipe above it, is full but with little to no flow rate
And the flat pipe at the top has little to no flow rate aswell...
Whats wrong?

[keen patio]

that.. that looks weird.. try remove and rebuild that 1 pipe length (including pump +Wiring)

[unkempt acorn]

its the same on all 3 legs tho...

[keen patio]

Im just troubleshooting; eg, rebuild it at least once, if that fixes.. then.. random bug.. if it doesn't fix, then moving to step 2 of troubleshooting 🙂

I would also suggest seeing what happens if you put 1 of those pipeline pumps maybe 8m (2 foundations thick ones) further down on the pipe instead of where its at.

as maybe you're technically above the headlift even tho the pipe is showing liquid above the pump >.>

[unkempt acorn]

i imagine that this is probably the culprit... long ass lines?

[frosty owl]

Isn't the standard recipe for computers pretty good?
I'm going by memory, but I think my 120-60-55-55 plan used both the caterium and standard recipes for computers

[bleak coral]

just going off the wiki: they're about the same efficiency, but need more power/space

cause it's slower and in a manufacturer

[fierce ruin]

I have been loving Crystal Computers, but that may just be preference.

[keen patio]

Default uses screws tho I think.. which is something that is bleh.

[frosty owl]

Yeah, but no caterium

At all, unless you use it to make the circuit boards

[frosty owl]

I use that only when in need of quick computers... Lately I haven't had much abundance of quartz in my plans, I usually send all of that into silica

[calm gale]

trying to max out a silicon node (well quartz) and need help

[smoky bison]

What’s the problem?

[calm gale]

i have a 240 node but idk how much silicon i can make from it

[frosty owl]

Got the alt recipe?

[calm gale]

which one?

[rapid mist]

Cheap silica

[frosty owl]

For silica

[fierce ruin]

What is the purity or what miner

[calm gale]

i infact do

mk2 on a pure node

same issue on the silica

[fierce ruin]

With overclocking which is worth it on nodes you can get 600 per minute

[calm gale]

its 240 a min tho cause power reasons

[fierce ruin]

What belts do you have?

[rapid mist]

Maybe unlock mk 3 miners and fix your power situation before worrying about it?

[smoky bison]

Should probably sort out your power if it’s really a problem no?

[calm gale]

mk3 atm

Rey i am lol

[rapid mist]

You said mk 2 on a pure node

[calm gale]

i need silica for computers for fuel gens

mk2 miner

[smoky bison]

Ah I see

[rapid mist]

Buy em with tickets

To get your power going

[calm gale]

if i had tickets lol

[fierce ruin]

Ok so you don't really need more than a clock speed of 175 and

No closer to 150

[calm gale]

hmm

[fierce ruin]

But if you don't have the power to overclock the miner it might be hard to power other machines

[calm gale]

my max power is 2707mw

[rapid mist]

You could just do a couple more coal to get you through

[calm gale]

i might have to

tho 1200mw idk if that will do much

[fierce ruin]

Or raising the clock speed of the generator might not be a terrible temporary fix

[rapid mist]

I mean you could shut down a bunch of lines for a bit while you get the computers

[calm gale]

maybe

[rapid mist]

Then once you have the computers and build the generators you can switch everything back on

[calm gale]

i swear power gen is such a pain

[rapid mist]

Every step forward in power is a step closer to not having to care about it

[calm gale]

true but my lack of info isnt good enough lol

[keen patio]

I found that I needed ~64 coal generators before I moved onto turbofuel

[calm gale]

wow yea im out of luck

[keen patio]

and 4 normal nodes through normal progression (overclocked mk1 miners, upgrading to mk2 miners) was enough coal to work with that

[rapid mist]

Fuel, turbo fuel, uranium and plutonium. Each one felt like, I could never use all this…. And yet…

[fringe pawn]

You can't reasonably use max nuclear power. Not that it's impossible, what I mean is that no goal you would otherwise come up with would need that much power, unless the goal itself was power use.

[rapid mist]

Oh absolutely. I wasn’t even using up all the power from one pure uranium node when I finished processing it into plutonium. And now I think I have 150,000 MW of headroom. Update 5 might change that up. Who knows.

[calm gale]

i might have to find fuel alts then idk

[rapid mist]

I think I had about 32 coal gems before I went to fuel.

[fringe pawn]

Yeah, all it takes us another tier of buildings with higher power use, or new particle accelerator recipes.

[calm gale]

Karn its for more power but less costs

[keen patio]

ehh, max nuclear did get nerfed down to 50.4 rods/min which is 630,000mw

[rapid mist]

No I know what fuel Alts are I mean how will that help you?

[keen patio]

and Im currently at a max production of.. 220,000mw

[calm gale]

making a crapload of fuel for a small cost

[keen patio]

so I hope I won't hit that, but it could be close.

[frosty owl]

Still over 1 TW if you include max plutonium

[keen patio]

Im a recycler, dont want waste.. and using max plutonium uses a ton more power too to produce it 😦

[fringe pawn]

You can still net over 1TW of power for production purposes. Without making power use itself a goal, I've never seen a post that needs that.

[calm gale]

no but if i manage to repeat a setup for computers its gonna need roughly 1600mw by itself

[fringe pawn]

I've seen builds that need more than max uranium, but nothing even close to needing max uranium+plutonium.

Part of the issue is that without mods or SCIM, there's no practical way to get enough shards to overclock all your buildings if you're using all of the planet's resources.

[frosty owl]

If you were to get 1 shard every 20 minutes, you could get 3k shards in 1k hours

[fringe pawn]

You're probably looking at 5,000+ power shards just to overclock all your refineries. And then when you make it down to constructors, you're looking at 5,000+ shards for iron wire alone.

[frosty owl]

If you have max doggos, I reckon you could get ~10 shards every 20 mins (might be more, don't remember the respawn time), making it 3k shards every 100 hours

[fringe pawn]

Ouch

This is close to maxing the planet, and while it doesn't account for particle accelerators, you're still well within the spec of max uranium.

I didn't check the actual production chains for actual usability at all

Ooh, that also doesn't include waste disposal.

Hm, that's tough to work out with greeny's calcs. There's no way to set a parameter to make mandatory use of 5,000 waste/minute.

[keen patio]

have it make plutonium rods, turn off alt recipes for plutonium rods (they are only used to make MORE rods for less waste), also disable 'fertile' alt recipe.

then set the inputs to the waste.

Note; it shouldn't be 5k waste.. its.. 50.4 rods = 252 Reactors @ 10 waste per reactor per minute = 2,520 waste/min, right?

[frosty owl]

Yeah, just maximize the plutonium rods on the waste output desired

[rapid mist]

You have to make a new factory outputting plutonium rods and set 5000 waste as an input

[fringe pawn]

I'm assuming 250 reactors just so you've got some buffer. You don't need the extra 5000 MW anyway.

[keen patio]

where are we getting 5000 waste from?

[rapid mist]

Just using the number posted above

[fringe pawn]

Maximize isn't working for plutonium rods. I'm trying in a whole separate sheet and it simply won't us all the waste.

[keen patio]

You're giving it too much waste.

[fringe pawn]

Oops

[keen patio]

max is 2,520 (10 per minute per reactor.

[rapid mist]

Doesn’t matter really just the only way I could get satisfactory tools to do a plutonium fuel rods factory

Oh you all know this already

That’s a lot of waste

But it’s not that much waste if you burn it as plutonium!

[fringe pawn]

Instant plutonium cell still looks worthwhile? Default -> instant cell -> default would probably be the most resource efficient?

[keen patio]

Here ya go @fringe pawn https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=hqLSBKsgyWFapuwUsZx5

[fringe pawn]

Oops, mistook the icon for the pellet recipe, that only costs concrete

[keen patio]

Note; Ive set some specific items that I already make elsewhere as inputs to make the production look cleaner.

[frosty owl]

Default cuts down on a lot of nitrogen plus some more rare resources
Then you increase usage of nitrogen and bauxite and others of you go for instant, even more if you add pressure cubes to the mix

[keen patio]

this is MINIMUM plutonium production to use all waste created from max uranium production.

[frosty owl]

The pressure cubes really make the cost explode, but they also give a ton of rods

[keen patio]

@bleak coral ((I may be @'ing the wrong person here.. did we talk nuclear a few nights back?)) -- is 2,520 the max waste production per minute for 50.4 rods, or am I mucking something up?

[rapid mist]

As of Patch 0.4.0.8, the most Plutonium Fuel Rods that can be made per minute is 30.54 alongside 22.91 Uranium Fuel Rods.[2] However, this does not yield the most power. Producing 22.4 Plutonium Fuel Rods alongside 50.4 Uranium Fuel Rods does,[3] sustaining a total of 476 Nuclear Power Plants producing exactly 1,190,000 MW (or 1.19 TW) of power.
After subtracting the power used to run this system itself (~99.8 GW), the net power is about 1.090 TW. Cost of Miners and Extractors included. The cost of transportation, such as trains, is not included.

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Plutonium_Fuel_Rod

Not checked just what Google says

[keen patio]

and obviously you have plutonium waste after that, which is not what Ima fter, but thank you for the information, I was curious!

[frosty owl]

It is. 50.2x50

[keen patio]

50.2 ?

[rapid mist]

Sure! I went plutonium in my save because after doing the work to convert them and seeing how much power it ate…. I was displeased with my hours invested to net MW generated.

[frosty owl]

Max uranium rods

[keen patio]

50.4

[frosty owl]

Potato potato xD

[keen patio]

❤️

[fringe pawn]

Same numbers still doable

[rapid mist]

Unfortunately for me I messed something up in the load balancing so my power fluctuates between 185k MW and 230k MW. And since I’m using like 90k I haven’t fixed it yet

[keen patio]

@ Red; just curious, where are you getting the 37.5's (and 150's) for the productions on the various parts? ((Im still recovering from U4 so Im not actually making the new parts yet))

[fringe pawn]

Final space elevator load as fast as possible, so 4:4:1:1 ratio on final parts

[keen patio]

ah!

[fringe pawn]

Looks like that'd do the final SE load in 26 minutes and 40 seconds.

You can go a little higher, but meh.

[keen patio]

Im pondering atm my methodology of selecting build values; I tend to overbuild.. eg; I select an item, max it out at 780.. then I check its inputs.. if it uses more than 780 of something, I reduce the value until the belts are balanced for a set of machines where the 780 belt is respected... then I build that.

if I need more of that part.. I duplicate that setup.

but for these newest SUPER end tier parts, obviously 780 is WAY too high

Im thinking maybe I should total the point value (for tickets) of each item (for 1 of them, each), and then assign a production value based on the % of total ticket/point value...

Input/ideas welcome 🙂

((for all parts involving nitrogen, T8+ basically

[fringe pawn]

Well, node proximity matters. If you have an isolated pure node, a setup for 780 makes sense. But if it's close to other nodes of different purities, that'll change things.

[keen patio]

ah, I'm modded. Assume logistics arent a problem.

((Storage teleporter, to save FPS.. I'm on a 6.5 year old computer.

that being said; it only works for belted items, not pipes.

[fringe pawn]

You could always balance ores with mk1 belts. 60 divides into the output of all purities nicely.

[keen patio]

... huh

[fringe pawn]

Though that gets weird with things like cheap silica

[keen patio]

wrong channel? or what are you talking about

[fringe pawn]

I don't know how that mod works, but with instant logistics I don't see the purpose of separated production areas.

[keen patio]

Seperated production areas helps FPS.. eg I have copper pure recipe and copper sheets in 1 section of the ocean.. and pure caterium and quarts processing on the opposite side of the map.

[fringe pawn]

Ah, right

[keen patio]

Steel and Iron is semi centered.. Plastic has its own oil area (bottom right crater on its 2550 oil) etc etc...

The mod is effectively an ID classed merger/splitter combo; I name something 'iron ore', stick it into all the miners on the map..

and then I have up to 70,000 iron ore available at any I place with the same ID

limited by belt speed, of course.

*by saying stick it into the miners on the map.. I still use mk3 miners.. this is just a 'box' that takes a belt of ore from the miner

but anyway; getting a bit far afield.. I was trying to figure out how many... Cooling units, Fused modular frames.. etc etc, to make.

I'm even slightly confused as to how many turbomotors to make now that its not the be-all-end-all.

[fringe pawn]

I'd say that's you first question to answer, is the final part goal. If you want to go really big, you'll particularly need to nuclear pasta, as that needs lots of copper.

[keen patio]

But thats the third most point item, Thermal Propulsion and Assembly Director System are higher

Im also confused by that item; its used in nothing? *outside the space elevator

... I realize thats a stupid comment, nvm

[fringe pawn]

Right, it has no use besides the space elevator. This is true of all project parts, they have no purpose other than building other space elevator parts, or going into the space elevator themselves. Presumably what are now the four final parts will be components of the SE delivery tier.

[keen patio]

SE?

[fringe pawn]

Space elevator.

[keen patio]

.. All I could think of was special edition and southeast... I may need to get some coffee >.>

[fierce ruin]

1.0 Release with physical copy of the game, special edition with commemorative FICSIT coffee mug

🥺

Is headlift a factor with gasses?

Gas is a fluid so I highly doubt they coded them any different.

When I put a pump down it gave me a yellow light

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[keen patio]

AFAIK, GAS = no headlift

@fierce ruin ^

[fierce ruin]

fair.

[fierce ruin]

Thanks

How many stackable pipe supports do you need to make a water overflow thing?

[minor nebula]

Anyone know the math for an even proportioned factory for stitched iron plate with iron wire?

Nvm satisfactory planner does include alternate recipes

[mortal spindle]

It does, you just have to select them first.

[silent parcel]

and sometimes to deselect the default ones

[glacial hemlock]

5

[clever orchid]

No it said in the update notes that gasses don’t have headlift

[fierce ruin]

14 hours later and after someone corrected me already, but thank you 🙂

[frosty owl]

Everyone wants to have a part in helping you ❤️

[fierce ruin]

thanks

[frosty owl]

Why 5?
Doesn't anything more than 1m suffice?

[unkempt acorn]

So im having a issue with my fuel set up. The fuel is backing up into the blenders and the generators arent getting enough fuel to work at 100% efficency... My only thought is that there needs to be more pumps? But they are all set at the recommended distance?

or maybe the fuel is bottle necking? Ill try adding some valves...

[frosty owl]

Making turbofuel?

Or is it backing up in the blenders' output?

[tropic hawk]

try gravity fed systems, where if inputs are like ___ make the feeds like ----, so it is _---

what the heck

[oblique hollow]

what kind of tip is that

thats what this message tries to express

[unkempt acorn]

Yeah so it was backing up into the blenders output.

The fuel goes out the blender, up a vertical climb (There are pumps at equal disance) then going to the fuel gens...

What ive done for now is stick valves in, so it all feeds one way at the blender factory?

[oblique hollow]

valve doesnt help if it backs up

how much fuel do you need and how are you transporting it

[frosty owl]

Could be a bottle neck... Kinda hard to tell without screens

[oblique hollow]

screenshots are invaluable to solve these issues

[unkempt acorn]

It seemed to off sorted the sitatuion

So a batch of 400Pm was merging with 200Pm... And what was happening at random blenders, was they were backing up... I theorized that maybe the 400 input was pushing back on itself into the 200 input and vice versa?

[oblique hollow]

600 with a single mk 2?

[unkempt acorn]

Yeah

[oblique hollow]

eh. it should work, but its kinda unsafe at times

if the blenders or refineries were previously full, then they cant empty completely

that might have been part of the issue

if 600 doesnt flow, its a head lift issue

[unkempt acorn]

Yeah, so i've left it to run and it's sorted itself out... now ive just gotta work out why my refinerys arent getting enough oil in put >.>

[frosty owl]

I doubt it would work for long
Merging pipes to fill a mk2 pipe often leads to one of the merged ones backing up

Unless you leave some wiggle room (~590/min or below)

[unkempt acorn]

Ive got a valves on both inputs for the merger. So it physically cant back up? What was happening before, was the fuel was going in both directions rather than the way i wanted it to go?

[oblique hollow]

even if fuel goes in both directions it cant make machines back up unless there was excess fuel in the pipe

or if it cant leave the pipe fast enough

send an image of the pipe with the pumps, just to make sure.
(a wide angle shot, no close-ups)

[rapid mist]

Mk 2 pipes can’t consistently move 600 units/m

[frosty owl]

Which is usually the issue when merging the pipes and reaching 600/min

[oblique hollow]

eh, sometimes they do, sometimes dont

its a dice roll

[rapid mist]

Hence “consistently.”

Not worth it just pretend they say 500

[oblique hollow]

570

[frosty owl]

If you get a bad roll once, the blenders start backing up

[oblique hollow]

thats a safe limit, i know that

[rapid mist]

So many hours of wasted time on my part

Really? That’s good info!

Nickname checks out!

[oblique hollow]

as long as you have some extra capacity left for any excess buildup to empty, it usually works

and 570 is a safe range, as you have 30 to spare

[frosty owl]

I think so too

The necessary spare capacity probably depends on how carefullly you lay down the pipes

[oblique hollow]

too many junctions and 600m³/min in one pipe dont quite wanna work together

my guess its more to do with framerate and such, as both pipes and belts are sorta frame-dependant

[unkempt acorn]

In my set up, its literally just where 2 & 4 blenders merge, then its a straight shot up and then divided into fuel gens

[frosty owl]

I think both can influence as much
Bad design can lead to very poor mk2 flow

[oblique hollow]

when in doubt just split the flow and use a second pipe

[rapid mist]

graphical FPS impacts the mechanics of items flowing through the world? That would be weird. Especially if the player is not in the area

[unkempt acorn]

I've spent 3 days with teething issues hahaha

[frosty owl]

FPS can be tied to game ticks
We're talking about the game's FPS btw ("game simulation's" FPS)

[oblique hollow]

mk 1 with 300 is reliable, but mk 2 600 just simply isnt stable enough for large setups

[oblique hollow]

as much as you can try to disconnect the rendering framerate and the timesteps of the physics engine, you cant completely disconnect them

[frosty owl]

And yet everyone yells at me telling me I don't drop ticks even if my render blocks for seconds

[oblique hollow]

if GPU lags out, then the CPU in theory should still be able to do shit, but if CPU lags out......

things get complicated i guess

[frosty owl]

If CPU lags out GPU just follows. Isn't that the simplest scenario FPS and game ticks-wise?

[rapid mist]

the game isn’t tapping my GPU much and my framerates drop like woah in my larger factories. Same thing happened on my 970 and it is still happening on my 3070. Probably time for more RAM and a new CPU.

Or that’s just EA, I understand 5950X + 3090 has the same results LOL

[frosty owl]

SF can be heavy all around on your hardware (al little less on the ram, luckily)

[oblique hollow]

everything gets a little stressed with satis

especially on large saves

[frosty owl]

Nobody filled more than 32 GB of RAM with SF right?

Though, one could still increase the RAM even then...
What I mean to say is while graphics and CPU can be stressed to the limit by the game, the RAM is the only one that won't reach an unsurpassable limit (you can still buy more)

Now I'll go back to my 8GB laptop, if you'll excuse me...

[rapid mist]

RAM helps with texture caching I believe. If you’re playing at 4K with high res textures (or maybe some kind of modded texture pack ) RAM might make a difference even if it’s only set to leave a certain amount free.

[frosty owl]

Isn't using ram for video caching worse than using it for CPU caching? O.o

[oblique hollow]

i have 8 GB on my laptop and 24 on my pc
with my laptop I can run Photoshop and one Chrome tab but thats it

[versed violet]

Video cards usually mirror their ram capacity into regular ram

[frosty owl]

Also, nowdays GPUs come with tons of VRAM, I think processing power would be the bigger issue with SF

[versed violet]

8GB card will reserve 8gb on win7 and 16gb on win10 in my case

[frosty owl]

Thanks for sharing your 8GB experience, much enlightening to me

[versed violet]

I've also read that installing mods increases the ram usage significantly (probably due to new models/textures)

[oblique hollow]

mostly because mods are 99% spaghetti code

[calm gale]

u would know Galleon lol

[versed violet]

well, most of the times mods are copy-pasta

[oblique hollow]

i only wrote recipes, ask Nog if ContentLib is Spaghetti

[calm gale]

consideing i think Nog and robb are both annoyed with me yea no

[oblique hollow]

what did you do xd

[calm gale]

tested power suits and reported bugs

[oblique hollow]

oof

[calm gale]

idk if they actually expected any1 to actually push the mods to the limits so fast

[unkempt acorn]

Dont suppose i can get peoples thoughts on my fuel generator set up and ideas on why it isnt working correctly?

This was attempt one

[tropic hawk]

note: for anyone using Pak Utility Mod, with 8 GB ram, you can place 50x50 8x4 foundations with a little choppieness, but once you breach 75x75, you run into performance issues

[tropic hawk]

what is the max consumption of the fuel?

[unkempt acorn]

600 Max consumption PM, 600Pm input

[versed violet]

Pak? Not Smart?

[tropic hawk]

SMART, my bad.

[unkempt acorn]

This is the second attempt, sorted the issue partly... still 1 or 2 not getting it at the bottem left

[tropic hawk]

if you are using 1 mk 1 pipe input, that is why

mk 1 can only handle up to 300

[unkempt acorn]

Oh no, sorry i am using Mk2

[tropic hawk]

mk 2 has been known to be buggy when nearing capacity, try using two mk 1s, and seeing if that fixes it

[versed violet]

And mk2 is know to have choppy performance at max flow. Loop the mk2 pipe from end to first junction (eg double it)

[unkempt acorn]

😢 Too many pipes

[versed violet]

I've managed to get to 0.2 FPS when placing an 20x20x10 cube of frames, but the issue is with the 'holograms' I think, not placing itself.

[tropic hawk]

if two pipes is too many, then something is wrong

[tropic hawk]

4550 placed is about 3-4 fps for me

[versed violet]

[stand by for test]

[tropic hawk]

realizes I have to place 480 reactors by hand because SMART doesn't let you mass place them

[versed violet]

[quietly reminds above user smart doesnt support water extractors either, so he has to place 2500 of them by hand]

[tropic hawk]

nope, only 480. 250% OC does 300 water/min

[tropic hawk]

also, is there a way to snap water extractors to a foundation or anything?

[tough stratus]

If I wanna get 720/min output from 3 mk2 miners on normal nodes, is there a difference in power consumption between running all 3 at 200% and running 2 at 250% and 1 at 100%?

[tropic hawk]

that, is a good question

[versed violet]

Building a 20x20x10 cube of foundation frames brings fps down to 0.6 FPS when hovering the hologram, then to 0.1 Fps when actually buulding.
The game did not crash 😂

[tough stratus]

my reading of the math on the wiki makes me think the former method is about 6% more power efficient

[versed violet]

Don't have the numbers, but yes, it is optimal to run all them on same clock than oc one higher

[frosty owl]

Agreed

[versed violet]

[unless one of them is pure and others are normal/impure, then best power usage is max oc on pure, then max oc on normal then rest on impure]

[unkempt acorn]

I give up with these fuel generators haha.

These pipes are so awkward

[keen patio]

Use area actions/ (2.0 beta in the github)

Note; it has some problems with pipe connections to water extractors, replacing them fixes it.

[outer shell]

i dont know if i am late but you need to load balance your pipes because the ends of the generators get less fuel so i would spit off the start of the pipe and bring it around to the back making the end get more fuel and it being focused in the center instead of the front

[versed violet]

Ballpark question - is 500k nuclear waste a lot?

[unkempt acorn]

Per minute or?

[versed violet]

Grand total actually.
Asking because I saw Kibitz panicking at 1M

[unkempt acorn]

How many double bins down 500 store?

500k

So 1 industrial storage holds 24k waste.

So 20 approx would hold 500k... nahhhh... you need more!!!

[versed violet]

I have 90 boxes built.

and 525k stored so far, so shouldn't run out soon I guess

[harsh crest]

scam

[versed violet]

It will take a while to process that into non-fisile uranium once I get recycling built

[calm gale]

<@&387163995947270144> got a scam linik

[versed violet]

VirusTotal yells phishing 😿

[unkempt acorn]

Yeah i worked it out that with all the storage i had... i had about 300 ingame hours before it was full

[versed violet]

I've made all that running total of 2 nukes (at 250%)

[unkempt acorn]

Oh wow lol

[glacial hemlock]

Yes, even 1 support (2m) works. 5 to increase the effectiveness

[pulsar idol]

My pc can handle a 110x110 which Is a no no

[frosty owl]

Eh, it just works or not, there's no middle ground 😆

[tropic hawk]

how much ram do you have?

[fierce ruin]

What is the most useless place on the map

And what is the minimum safe distance from a nuclear reactor

"most useless" is probably the giant void crater.

Where's that?

In relation to grasslands and oil islands

[wind spade]

hard to say, it depends a lot on your setup

[fierce ruin]

Does it scale to the clock speed or compound with multiple reactors or something?

[wind spade]

it's way more complex than that. Each radioactive item type has it's own RadioactiveDecay value, which is used to calculate how intense the item radiates at certain distances. Each radioactive item radiates the whole map and you just sum up intensities from all items and if it goes over 0.2, you're standing in radioactive zone

if you want the exact math, it's on wiki somewhere (I assume Radiation page if that exists)

[glacial hemlock]

A lone reactor? 100 is probably good. A centralized site may require you to stay 350m from outer edge of anything radioactive

[wind spade]

but basically it depends where your radioactive items are, how much stacked they are, etc.

so yeah there may be some guesses on distance, but it's mostly just "shove it as far as you can and don't care about the radiation"

[glacial hemlock]

As for now the best location for nuclear waste storage is in the sky

[fierce ruin]

I plan to sink the plutonium rods but I don't want my face ripped off by millions of loose protons while I fly over my world

[sand epoch]

Put them into storage in the void level?

[fierce ruin]

What would I be storing? @sand epoch

[sly dune]

Does someone of you have a space efficiant hyper tube boost design?

[pulsar idol]

16gb

[glacial hemlock]

Usually it will be a straight line with multiple entrances

[sly dune]

ok thats also how i have built them, i just thought i saw a round design and you get bugged out at a certain speed

[glacial hemlock]

Round design is for power saving, but more unstable

[sly dune]

ok thanks

[vapid gorge]

One thing I didn't really get with the Kibitz vid is that he was using the recipes that consumed LESS waste to process it all. The ones he used seemed to optimize the plutonium power option rather than just sinking it as efficiently as pos

So I'm developing a Ur waste processing facility. My plan is to do Non-Fisile Uranium, Plutonium pellets, Encased plutonium cell. Now I could skip pellets with the Instant Cell recipe but it only gives a 6% Cell increase for missing the step plus requires lots of aluminium cases to do it. Have peeps found it's worth while??

[glacial hemlock]

There is an analysis on wiki page, Plutonium fuel rod

I remember instant cell is better

[vapid gorge]

I mean... I KNOW I get 6% more cells, but it was more if people found the extra cost of the infrastructure and aluminium worth getting that small boost

[glacial hemlock]

It actually cost less building overall. But yes the cost of bauxite can't be ignored. You can skip this recipe if not power hungry

An end game factory hardly consumes 500 GW, and the maxed nuclear can give you 1.19TW so there is plenty of margin

[vapid gorge]

That's what I was feeling? And I think the 'skipping a step' clouded the 'increased aluminium' steps it needed :\

[frosty owl]

If you just wanna sink the plutonium but want to use as little resources as possible, instant is not the way

[vapid gorge]

ta 🙂

[wind spade]

@frosty owl re conversation in #satisfactory :

[frosty owl]

@wind spade Maybe you forgot steel screws?

(For 150 RIP/min, standard plate recipe for both)

[wind spade]

bolted - 67.3 MW, 4.4 smelters, 0.66 assemblers, 10 constructors - ~15 buildings in total

stitched - 56.8 MW, 2.9 smelters, 1.8 assemblers, 4.6 constructors - ~8.5 buildings in total

[frosty owl]

So... where are the steel screws again?

[wind spade]

third screen, sec

[frosty owl]

Too impatient 😆

[wind spade]

bolted + steel screws - 42 MW, 3 smelters, 3.8 constructors, 0.3 foundry, 0.67 assemblers - ~7.7 machines, BUT also requires extra resource (coal)

and due to extra resource requirements, you'll most likely need extra miners (not to mention that you need two different resources)

[frosty owl]

Like... 1 extra miner every 90+ machines... still space efficient 👍

[wind spade]

Resource requirements:

• bolted: 131.7 iron
• stitched: 87 iron
• bolted + steel screws: 102.8 iron, 12.8 coal
• normal: 120 iron
• normal + steel screws: 99.2 iron, 9.2 coal

[frosty owl]

I think we all know which route uses less resources

[wind spade]

I get that iron may be available in larger quantities, but coal is not as common (and used a lot)

so I don't see a reason to introduce it into basic resource like RIPs

[frosty owl]

Sure, but since I have enough coal for my plan INCLUDING bolted, I'd much rather go for the best FPS route, which is the one using less buildings and tons of OC

And I'd still have some oil left for extra steel or plastic if needed

[wind spade]

OC can be used on all builds 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

Sure, doesn't make stiched anymore space/machine efficient ^^

[wind spade]

though not any less 😛

[frosty owl]

Still less than bolted :P

[wind spade]

(also kinda related rant - I like how people go "most FPS efficient route" and then I look at their bases and it's 1458746546876 foundations everywhere)

[frosty owl]

Not applicable to me, but fair point. I don't get how some people have so many foundations

Like... are they placing foundations INSIDE a cube anytime they make a cube? (Stupid example, but you get the point)

[wind spade]

I'd say it's mostly just "let's pave the world and build skyfactory on top of big floating foundation square"

[frosty owl]

Me dislike foundation squares >.<
It needs at least to have holes, or that's just a slab of concrete

Has anyone made a factory based on "golden rectangles" as foundations?

[hardy kettle]

At first, I just built an addition from the main factory, so all of my main resources are produced in a really long strip. Now, the new ones are done in glass platforms in the sky supported by pillars. They aren’t squares as much as blobs since I just add on as I need.

[fierce ruin]

Meta: Stocking up on biofuel by deforesting the entire Northern Forest right before U5 so it's all "free" resources when they reset the biome.

What should I bring with me so I can make a hyper tube cannon to send me

[deft lichen]

two stacks of each: rotors, encased beams, copper sheets, steel pipes

then concrete, iron rods and plates

[fierce ruin]

And how many entrances to get from the dessert to at least the oil islands (where I have an outpost with a cannon)

[frosty owl]

I usually go for ~12 and adjust from there

[deft lichen]

which desert

[fierce ruin]

Dune

[kind kraken]

@wind spade sorry for the ping, wasn't sure how else to reach you. I'm trying to use the satisfactorytools website you made to find out the optimal way of making plutonium, but it gives me an error message. it says it doesn't have the right amount of resources available or recipes, except i didn't change that and for testing purposes i set it to 1 plutonium fuel rod per minute... am i doing something wrong?

[wind spade]

check if you added nuclear waste as input

(and don't worry about pinging me)

[fierce ruin]

I think that's it's name dune dessert

[kind kraken]

ooooh okay. thank you! i'm gonna try that :)

[fierce ruin]

I'm near where let's game it put made his second base

[kind kraken]

now it works :)

[frosty owl]

Nuclear waste = (rods/min)* 50

[glacial hemlock]

Omg steel screw lol

If you really like steel, go for steel rod + normal screw for better conversion

[fierce ruin]

Don't fall for the Nitro scam spam!

Is there a pure uranium node somewhere?

[sand epoch]

1 i think..

[wind spade]

I don't think there's pure uranium

there's 3 normal and one impure

[sand epoch]

or i'm wrong.. lol

[fierce ruin]

So no pure node anywhere

[sand epoch]

SCIM map says no

[fierce ruin]

Can you still fill an mk5 belt with an mk3 miner on a normal node?

[wind spade]

I think mk3 miner can do 600 on normal max?

[deft lichen]

only pure mk3 are a problem, where you're capped at 162.5%

[sand epoch]

162.5? that seems far to high..

[deft lichen]

pure node * miner mk3 * clock speed

[wind spade]

you forgot * 0.95 because belt bug

[fierce ruin]

What is the best way to distribute batteries?

[sand epoch]

right.. 480 is base (i was thinking 600 too..)

[wind spade]

drones

[sand epoch]

for drones?.. with drones

[fierce ruin]

I'm better off importing silica and using sloppy alumina right?

[sand epoch]

depends how much buax you have to play with.. some use way less

[fierce ruin]

2 pure nodes 600 per min each with 3 drones transporting them

[bleak coral]

sloppy makes enough extra solution/scrap to compensate for not making silica

[sand epoch]

1200/m with 3 drones?.. must be a really short distance. like under 1 minute each way.. o0

[bleak coral]

So even importing the same amount of silica, utilizing pure alu ingots means you'll still end up with more ingots with sloppy

[fierce ruin]

I'm not getting all 1200 at the moment but yeah it isn't that far it's the 2 pure nodes by the beach and the factory is floating above the beach

Oil islands

[sand epoch]

odd use of drones 🙂 would love to see the final build when you are done

[fierce ruin]

So am I better off making the ingots using the recipe that turns bauxite directly in to scraps or using sloppy alumina and turning it in to scraps

[frosty owl]

I think you missed my point of "using bolted+steel screws to use less machines" 😆

Of course normal screws or steel>rods>screws is more resource efficient, but the gain is so little I prefer much more to save on machines (I also don't like much to deal with iron wire overall)

[wind spade]

well the savings of bolted -> stitched are pretty huge, but do whatever you want to do 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

Neither coal nor iron are hard to get so I'm not worried about conserving them at the moment I'm more worried about how annoying it is to make screws in mass

[frosty owl]

You can easily get around that 👍

[cold snow]

on a scale of 1 to 10, how dumb is it to want to use all the bauxite and make the max ingots while using silica? with sloppy alumina and electrode scrap that is

[bleak coral]

10, cause it eats almost all the silica/quartz

[frosty owl]

In my plan those saves don't help making any SE part, so I don't care much about them 🤷‍♂️

[bleak coral]

and max aluminum with pure ingots is plenty of ingots

[frosty owl]

Eh, not too bad... Iirc you can max out alluminium and nuclear and still have a decent amount of silica left

Not A LOT, but a decent amount

[bleak coral]

I'm not sure you can do max aluminum with quartz and do max nuclear

[cold snow]

just checked, i would have one spare mk5 belt of ingots, rest would be used

[bleak coral]

max aluminum with quartz is like 90% of the quartz

[cold snow]

you can, you have 50 spare quartz

or around that number

[bleak coral]

ouch

[fierce ruin]

So definitely use non-silica recipes got it, now I just need to get them

[bleak coral]

of course you don't have to go 100% in, you can supplement it with silica as needed

[cold snow]

tho that isn't "max" nuclear i think, just 30 uranium and 28.44 plutonium

[bleak coral]

oh it's not

max nuke is 50.4 and 22.4

it doesn't use fertile

[cold snow]

still more than enough energy in the end

[frosty owl]

Nah, a little shy of 7k quartz

[fierce ruin]

@bleak coral you like nuclear right, what is the best place to put a nuclear power plant?

[cold snow]

hm maybe i'm only going to use the quartz in the dune desert/swamp area for it

[cold snow]

above the ocean

and overclock the powerplants to 250%

[bleak coral]

yup, near water cause it chugs it, plus ocean is away from stuff

[bleak coral]

so like about 70% of the quartz then, that's still a lot

[frosty owl]

@cold snow as an example, my plan to make 150 ASD and 60 TPR maxes out both aluminium and uranium fuel rods production but still uses silic HSC and makes 110.2 oscillators/min

And yeah, some silica goes into plutonium processing too

[fierce ruin]

So that area where there is nothing in the ocean and there is that island where you can't go very far because it's the edge of the map is the best place?

[frosty owl]

You're left with a few thousands of quartz... To me, that's just enough for HSC and crystal oscillators, nothing else
Can share the plan if you want

[cold snow]

i actually don't know the numbers in between, but the factory i have planned is going to make 50 turbo motors, 30 uranium, 28.44 plutonium, 25.56 FMF and 25 supercomputer

[frosty owl]

My plan includes 60 TM, max uranium, 12 plutonium and ~150 supercomputers... I think you'd be good on silica, if I am ^^

[cold snow]

well the max alu ingot was planned as a side project when i dont wanna build the other factories 😅

like atm i'm disussing the stuff here instead of building the watersupply for the 200 steamed copper sheet factory

[frosty owl]

So you're being unproductive

Kidding, #math-and-meta discussions are peak productivity

[wind spade]

anybody in here who spent more time ingame than doing math shouldn't be here 😛

(I think I'm winning in that field anyway 😄 )

[frosty owl]

What if you do math ingame?

[cold snow]

also i still can't stand the powerconnector placement on water extractors, all this powerline clipping

[wind spade]

that counts to both parameters, so effectively null

[cold snow]

you mean with the backwards calculator?

[frosty owl]

I use that all the time :P

Mostly since my PC can't handle alt-tab well and using the phone is annoying

[wind spade]

I doubt anyone here has bigger difference between playtime and mathtime than me 😄

[wind spade]

tried playing in fullscreen windowed mode?

[frosty owl]

I don't have much issues with those really... If you send a screen of how you set them up, maybe I can give a tip

[frosty owl]

No, I usually stick to full screen iirc
But RAM is tight so just having the calculator open is kinda meh

[cold snow]

i've set them up space efficient and cant be bothered to place a powerpole every two extractors. i mean i could fix it, but it is too much work

[frosty owl]

Ah well, I place a power pole EACH extractor, so... 😅

[wind spade]

windowed fullscreen is usually way friendlier to alt-tabbing, I'd recommend trying that (even if you don't plan on doing calculator on the background)

[minor nebula]

Can someone tell me how to get to the top of the cliffs between the oil islands and rocky desert

[frosty owl]

What's the difference in resource usage? (can move to #off-topic-tech if you want)

[minor nebula]

I don’t have hoverpack or hypertube

[cold snow]

yep, doing that all the time, otherwise games really like to stutter if you tab out

[bleak coral]

I just leave everything open myself 32GB goes brrrrrr

[frosty owl]

Gimme RAM reeee

[cold snow]

sloped foundations

[minor nebula]

That’s so many!

[fierce ruin]

What tier are you at?

[wind spade]

download more ram 😛

[frosty owl]

You can just delete them when you come down ^^

[fierce ruin]

There's also latter and hoverpacks

[minor nebula]

Just finished basic steel production, haven’t built my steel plant yet bc I need to redo my coal power, but I know there’s like three hard drive sup there

[cold snow]

i would like to download more CPU GHz to run the game smoother 😦

[fierce ruin]

I wouldn't recommend going up there until you at least have 100 nobelisks

[cold snow]

and a gasmask

[fierce ruin]

That's what the bombs are for

[minor nebula]

I have unlocked nobelisk detonator in mam but not nobelisks themselves

[fierce ruin]

You can explode the legged acid flowers

So nobelisks are a must have

[minor nebula]

Sulfur is just straight up ridiculously far, over 2000m or so

[fierce ruin]

Where are you located?

[cold snow]

what do you want up there anyways?

[minor nebula]

Coast of rocky desert

[fierce ruin]

I know there is a pure node in the dessert

And a normal in the grass lands

[minor nebula]

Hard drives mostly

[fierce ruin]

They require mostly tier 5-8 stuff

[cold snow]

there is no sulfur in the rocky desert itself, only in the northern forest

[cold snow]

gas mask, xeno basher, explorer and go for a ride^^

[wind spade]

well eventually you want to have factories all over the map, so it's not a big deal 🤷‍♂️

[minor nebula]

I did unlock the explorer recently, been using him to help me get steel up and running

[fierce ruin]

I'm not very familiar with the area I just went there via tube cannon, placed a tower, grabbed some slugs and ran home

[cold snow]

oh and maybe use this nice map to check where the harddrives are: https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

[minor nebula]

But I’m trying to get more alt recipes too, I really want steamed copper sheet. I have maybe 5 alts right now

[fierce ruin]

There are several in the desserts, 3 at the beach, and 3 or 4 in the grass lands

And there are a few in blue crater

The ones I mentioned are all easy to get

In fact the ones at the beach are in tact and don't need repair@minor nebula

[keen patio]

.. Are you trying to make me blow up my new computer by dividing by zero >.>

[wind spade]

difference isn't X/Y but X-Y

[quiet sable]

I do more maths for games than I do for my physics degree

[dull bolt]

Relatable.

[oblique hollow]

The only time ive used the math from tech college so far is for Satis 😂

[frosty owl]

Bruh, I integer all the time to know my total item production over x time...
Yeah, as if

[oblique hollow]

Remember when people were like "how much energy does the accelerator use for nuclear pasta, in MWh"? I whipped out integrals for that

[frosty owl]

Do you just hate to use the average energy used instead? 😆

[wind spade]

don't need integrals for that. (min + (max - min) / 2)* [time]

[frosty owl]

SF CALCULATOR: Did you just say (max-min) / (2*time)?

[oblique hollow]

I realized that later too. Just take the average consumption and multiply it with time

[wind spade]

I'm lucky I never used it 😛

[frosty owl]

If you took your time to simplify the integer instead of brute-forcing the answer, you would've probably got that formula 😆

@wind spade The upgrades planned for the tool include automatic data update right?
So you wouldn't have to do much for v5 and up of the tool, correct?

[wind spade]

that depends how many new mechanics are introduced 🙂

[frosty owl]

Bugger all

[wind spade]

but for the basic stuff, yeah

I'm trying to automate as much as possible with the tool

[frosty owl]

Even just that should cut down the work a decent amount

[wind spade]

so ~30-60 minutes after update, should be ready by then

at least in SOME state

[fierce ruin]

tfw a third-party tool is updated faster than your computer can update the entire game

[teal wadi]

anyone know off-hand the math for figuring out manifold fill rates? i found a calculator online but i'd be interested to know the actual math just out of curiosity

[wind spade]

well the update time of the tool is mostly composed of downloading the game's update 😉

[wind spade]

the online calculator you found just simulates the entire thing, there's no math behind it

[teal wadi]

i see

[woeful lance]

Heyy wheres the freakin...gabagool

[fierce ruin]

So I was looking at the wiki and it says that turbo fuel is better than regular fuel for generators but I don't think it said how it was better so does it last longer or produce more power?

[bleak coral]

last longer

burns times are on the fuel gen page

[fierce ruin]

Ok thanks

Dang would be pretty nice if it made more power but I guess this way 1 pipe can feed more generators

[wind spade]

basically 1 turbofuel has 2000MJ energy, while 1 fuel has 750 MJ, so it's like 2.6666 fuel = 1 turbofuel

[fierce ruin]

Yeah so 1 pipe can power 2 2/3 as many generators

[wind spade]

yeah, but usually you want to measure in terms of resources, not pipes (you can always build more pipes, but you're limited with resources)

[fierce ruin]

That makes sense, I was thinking about the pipes like a stack so 600 of this item can feed 2.66 times as many generators as 1 "stack" of fuel

But I guess it is a bit more complicated than that because turbo fuel also represents the coal and sulfer that were used to make it

[ebon palm]

i fucked my game up pls help

[fierce ruin]

Umm... that isn't enough info to be able to help

[vapid gorge]

So semi computer grunt / factory sized question: I'm bringing in about 120 maxed mk3 nodes of material to 4 or 5 megafactories in the dune desert which will -get refined -go through at least 3 machine processes to produce my components -------------- Is this going to nuke my computer? XD

[fierce ruin]

U won't know till u try it, go for it👍

[frosty owl]

If you only do smelting and little more processing you might still be good
I'm sure you know this depends a lot on you machine though ^^

[vapid gorge]

Yeah .. yeah... sigh Even if I go to 32 gig ram my gtx 1650 probably wouldn't cut it eh?

[frosty owl]

It might if you go low enough on graphic settings

[tame wyvern]

I used -NOTEXTURESTREAMING as launch option, uses more ram(at around 10 gigs) versus 6 gigs beforehand and it nets me more fps as well. You're welcome to try it and see if you get a positive result with it. Running gtx 1660, with everything on ultra but texture quality I've lowered to high.

Edit: It comes with a caveat, longer load times when starting game and it may break shaders and/or shadows(have not experienced it yet).

Used it for Borderlands3, there's more details about it on Steam from players, can't link since steam links are not whitelisted.

[dull bolt]

IF the link is steampowered.com it should be whitelisted. Other faulty steam links should get removed though.
But I'm not sure if the filter allows prefixed like store(dot)steampowered(dot)com though.

[tame wyvern]

you're most welcome to test it by pasting a link to any steam discussion board

[dull bolt]

steamcommunity links are gonna get nuked. If it's like a community guide thing.

[vapid gorge]

Is notexturestreaming just something from an app called BnS Buddy? That's the main reference to it I've found online

[tame wyvern]

no, unreal engine has many command line options to disable certain elements from being enabled. You can find explanation of it on unreal webpage as well.

found another link with a more in-depth explanation on reddit boards, can DM, I'm sure social media links are def blacklisted here

sent a DM

[vapid gorge]

Oh! Thank you so much!

[frosty owl]

@true fog #screenshots message
I hope you know already, but you'll need to have an overflow belt of sorts for that balancer to work ^^

[fierce ruin]

How many nuke plants can I power with an impure node and mk3 miner set to 250%

[wind spade]

that depends on recipes

[fierce ruin]

Assume default

[frosty owl]

Greeny says 3 rods/min or 15 generators

[fierce ruin]

Ok

[true fog]

I put sinks at the end of each factory section to prevent energy surprises, so unless you mean a different type of overflow belt, that part is handled. 🙂

[true fog]

So, I took look at the coupon cost page on the wiki, https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/AWESOME_Sink#Coupon_cost and it states that the current production limit of turbo motors is at 156 per minute.

I took a look over at https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=oUdS6oYlEEDH3Su6voNa and by enabling all alternative recipes I got it up to 236 before it errors out. Is this a new limit, or is there something else that prevents you from getting that high?

[bleak coral]

Oh yeah that's out of date

it was 156 in U3

also I swore it was higher than 236 now, thought it was like in the 500s

[true fog]

You can set the input to 237 and the calculator errors out.

[bleak coral]

guess not 🤷‍♂️

maximize will you get you to 236.88, but eh semantics

[true fog]

Nono. Gotta cram out that last tiny drop of a .88, won't be 100% otherwise. 😝

[bleak coral]

oh yeah you can just change the drop down to maximize in the future instead of trying to guess, it's not the most efficient route but it will get you the most you can make

and it works fine as long as there's only one item

there's somewhere else on the wiki that has a more update version of that paragraph with U4 top point items instead, should copy-paste that

[true fog]

If you know where it is and want to, you're welcome to. I've got to skiddaddle for work, so alternatively I'll make an account and just update the numbers for the time and limit when I get home.

[bleak coral]

yeah I'll do something about it, might change it from rockets to the other thing too, cause rockets actually aren't the best item sink

assembly director systems can be made at much higher volume for equivalent resources

[bleak coral]

dammit, really? no wolfram alpha links

<@&387163995947270144> would y'all mind adding wolframalpha(dot)com to the white list?

[dark badge]

!automod whitelist add wolframalpha.com

[shadow prairie]

Whitelisted 1 url.

[bleak coral]

thank you very much!

[dark badge]

np

[bleak coral]

oh does it take a bit to take effect?

[gloomy palm]

working on a mobile-friendly version of the coupon calculator, hope to finish soon™️

[true fog]

Dyno seems to be pretty slow on the rate-limit. Kind of surprised it’s used here, typically large dev-servers have their own bots.

[cloud tree]

I guess more ppl started like this?😂

[fierce ruin]

Excel

[neat drum]

I mean can't go wrong with paper though.

[cloud tree]

agree, im usually an excel guy hehe

[fierce ruin]

Paper that I convert to excel is the way I have always worked.

"Faster" for me to just cross out and re-write than to drag a bunch of cells around.
Once I get the layout for what I want designed on paper it's simpler to make the sheet that matches it.

[cloud tree]

30 computers per minute

[cloud tree]

there you go

I hope i made no mistake hehe

E stands for extra, overflow to go to storage/sink

I didnt include the part where i package a bit of fuel (plastic made from the 100 extra resin-> empty canisters) to sent to storage too

Thx to @tame wyvern for assisting

[fierce ruin]

That looks very familiar :)

[cloud tree]

😂😂

[wind spade]

I started by writing a calculator

[fierce ruin]

greeny started with <!DOCTYPE HTML><html></html>

[marble bramble]

anyone got a efficient reinforced iron plate setup

[cunning socket]

That feeling when you get your data in a spreadsheet, feel all confident and secure in your math, and then realize that you forgot a multiplier on the power shard counter

[earnest glen]

Hahah so true

[cunning socket]

... cries in Smelter

So to process every iron node at mk3 belt speeds and 3x power shards overclock, from ore to ingot and no alt recipes: 432 smelters.

wait hold on I think I fucked up again let me backtrack. As it stands: I'm still cranky that my initial power shard math did not include the multiplier for smelters.

Well, that's not much better. Accounting for a 250% mk2 miner at 150/m on an Impure node, its still 379.2 smelters at 250%.

I am SO GLAD that I am recreating Midgar for this project, this is Too Many Smelters.

[versed violet]

Are you sure? mk5 belt at 780/min needs 26 smelters

[bleak coral]

So to process every iron node at mk3 belt speeds

Not 1 mk3 belt, every node with a max speed of mk3 belts

[cunning socket]

Exactly.

Mk 3 is both where I'm at now, and it gives me room to expand upwards when I have mk4 and mk5 belts.

Your Miner can dig 300 ore/min sure, but if the belt can't move it then you're going to end up with it stuck in the machine.

[bleak coral]

I'd say this is a bad project though. You might want to save some of that ore for copper alloy, coke steel, and pure iron ingot is a thing.

Plus it's a bunch of extra stress on your machine for a bunch of stuff that's not gonna be doing anything

Not to mention the crazy power requirements for overclocking that many machines

[cunning socket]

Power isn't an issue for me, I can generate as much as I need. I'm using a wind power mod that's pretty nifty.

As for saving ore: This is for mk2 machines on all nodes, with mk3 belts. When I get to the point that I need more ore/m, I'll be where I can upgrade. As it is, the factory I'm building is easily modified, so where I need something I can move it.

The eventual goal of Phase 1 Midgar is to get all the base resources up there and then laid into factory lines.

[versed violet]

Any Wiki maintainers here?
Just noticed awesome sink page says maximum points per minute that can be sunk seems to be 2,147,483,648 p/min, which is equal to the maximum value of a signed 32-bit integer. (It is unconfirmed whether additional points beyond that are wasted.)
but Jace on recent stream/vid said that int.Max is only display limit of the chart, and that item points are awarded per-item not per-minute, so nothing is wasted.
Too scared to edit that huge page in the weird new editor they got.

[bleak coral]

do you know when he said it so it can be clipped for a reference?

[versed violet]

Don't have exact time, it was the showcase part where he shown and talked about screens people sent

[versed violet]

Found it: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1113996222?t=0h43m23s

... I actually wasn't sure if max point they receive would be capped by MaxInt, but I checked with the team and no, its more likely they got more per minute than that, because when you get points [...] for item that goes in, *it doesn't put them in one big chunk and give it to you*

[bleak coral]

Thanks! Got it and I'll go edit it

[marble bramble]

anyone have a good pure iron with a mk2 miner making iron rods/plates and screws setup?

[fringe pawn]

How many rods, plates, and screws do you need?

And what alts do you have?

Without knowing what you're doing, here's this, which requires cast screws

[true fog]

Wanting a facility to produce iron ingots I could expand upon later as my needs increased I found pure iron ingots to be the seemingly best recipe requiring just water and ore. Running it with maximization through the Satisfactory Tool yields this recipe though.

I'm aware that's likely more iron than would ever be needed. But, why does it suddenly decide that you should also be doing alloys?

...Wait. I'm dumb. Maximizing neglects the thought of actually wanting any copper..
Putting that in mind yields this, which seems better.

Is there any reason to ever require 72 thousand ingots though?

[fringe pawn]

Some people make it a goal to use all of the planet's resources. It's an open-ended game, so without knowing what you want, it's hard to say.

I decided I wanted to make a factory which produced 20 assembly director systems, 20 magnetic field generators, 5 nuclear pastas, and 5 thermal propulsion rocks per minute. So I entered that into the same tool, and made tweaks from there.

[glacial hemlock]

If your cpu and gpu can take it, there is little reason not to aim high

[tropic hawk]

or if you want to produce at least one of every item in game, max nuclear and tickets, then you will have to aim high

[sly snow]

Ok. This may sound like a dumb question

But how do you split the materials into prime numbers?

I learned how to do it for 5. But I struggle with higher numbers

Is there a "clean" solution?

[fringe pawn]

Are you talking about splitting one belt stream into 13 streams, for instance?

If so, split it into 16 streams, then merge 3 of them back into the original stream.

[oblique hollow]

Its prime balancers, and no, there is no easy way

Its a cluster of splitters and mergers

[sly snow]

Ok, thanks

[fierce ruin]

I wonder if manifolds were invented by someone who got sick of trying to figure out prime balancers 😂

[oblique hollow]

Manifold is for the lazy person, can confirm

[fierce ruin]

Ouch 😥

[oblique hollow]

I wholly endorse laziness

[fierce ruin]

Depends on the context I guess. (For endorsement)

Also I am assuming my intuition was correct that when doing a fluid building 616m tall it is simpler to pump a single line going upwards then split at the top and let it all fall down instead of trying to split and pump each individual floor?

[frosty owl]

@oblique hollow I'm putting the "slower belt priority merge" to the test in this setup.
The merged belts are mk1 (ingots, 50/min) and mk3 (ore, 270/min, only ~130/min needed) onto another mk3

Yes, I did that just to avoid having to rise one belt over the other and try this

[oblique hollow]

And?

Any results?

[frosty owl]

It runs for now. It's part of a setup I'll be monitoring in my main save for the next few gaming sessions

The sushi HMF setup

As long as all the smelters on the left keep taking in ore, it shouldn't jam at all

[bleak coral]

huh so the whitelist for wolframalpha didn't work, that's weird

[sand epoch]

depends how it was entered..

[sinful rover]

I have 400 fuel produced per minute and that feeds 33.333 fuel gens, how much do I overclock the 34th to get 33.333? Apparently overclocking 33.333% isn't how it works and now that it's math I thought to bring it here

[bleak coral]

clockspeeds for generators is non-linear for some reason, maths here: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Clock_speed#Clock_speed_for_power_generators

[fierce ruin]

There is currently a bug where pipelines lose fluid on save/load, so you should probably leave some excess fuel to refill the system. Since generators are somewhat critical.

[true fog]

According to this video, that seems to be the correct assumption saving you pumps and time, yes: https://youtu.be/0ExdbBGt7ig?

[fierce ruin]

Thank you. Bit too late to turn back now as I just finished the second of three towers, lol.

(If I had been wrong)

[true fog]

Never too late to turn back. Spent all of last week making a facility that I'm going to tear down later today, without ever having connected it to anything. ^^

[noble timber]

Just found this out. Luckily my generators have a backup supply

[tropic hawk]

so you know how the devs confirmed a new gas coming? I also heard they confirmed that there would be a use for the poison gas pillars. 2+2=4

[gloomy palm]

SinkPoint Calculator v2 is going live soon, I will need to finish some loose ends in the site and will be asking for beta testers again, so please stay tuned for more updates! 😃

[lethal berry]

can someone teach me how to calculate what constructors ect you neeed for a factory

im not sure how you do the calculations

ping me or dm me if your willing to help

[kindred plover]

So for the super experienced factory builders here: what would you say is the best setup for Reinforced Iron Plates (assuming you have every recipe)

[spiral flare]

lol, i have the same problem at the moment

imho its a solution with the steel screws

but the satisfactory tools calculator says i should use normal screws, but the use more raw material and more power

[bleak coral]

iron wire > stitched plates is my preferred, you're not adding that much power/machines compared to steel screws > bolted and it's a lot less resources

steel screws aren't efficient, they're just fast

what setup do you have where it uses more resources for normal screws? you sure you're looking at that right

[spiral flare]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=0x3UmWPrS30AFtzbh9Qm

with normal screws i need 300 iron (instead of 230iron + 50 coal)

and power is 860 instead of 830

[bleak coral]

it weights it based on rarity, and iron is more abundant than coal

[spiral flare]

ah ok

[bleak coral]

that's why it does that

in practice they're both very abundant so meh

iron is 1st, then limestone, and coal 3rd

in how much is available

[spiral flare]

ok thanks 👍

[bleak coral]

obviously weighted efficiency isn't the be-all end-all, just good to know how it chooses stuff so you know when/if you want to override it (like you did)

[fringe pawn]

Adhered iron plate is pretty nice if you're going to be making oil rigs anyway, and are looking for a way to use it all.

[kindred plover]

How does that add up in terms of efficiency? Do the numbers ever add up at some level of iron input?

[bleak coral]

I don't understand the question

[kindred plover]

is there a setup that works for OCD idiots like me where for example 120 iron ore perfectly makes 3 assemblers run at 100% or something

ignoring any steps in between

[bleak coral]

oh you mean nice ratios at 100% clock speed? I don't know maybe, that has nothing to do with efficiency and I just manipulate clock speeds to get whatever machine counts match my aesthetics/needs. So I don't really pay attention to 100% clock speed ratio stuff.

[fringe pawn]

7 stitched iron plate factories at 100% produce 45/minute. Is that what you want?

[torpid robin]

comign from an ocd person(myself) the best thing i learnt to do with this game , is actually learn to not worry about making every machine run at 100% .you are better off down cloacking machines like lund said

[kindred plover]

haha ok maybe that's worth looking into

[kindred plover]

What I'm looking for is (for example) 120 iron ore being used 100% towards Stitched Iron Plates

[bleak coral]

go find a slug and unlock clock speeds, it's the duck tape of this game 😛

[fringe pawn]

Keep in mind that the game can't work at perfect efficiency anyway.

[torpid robin]

you will find having nice setups in say the number of machines, being the same for everything and making things suit

[kindred plover]

I don't really care about the clock on the machines

[torpid robin]

every constructor set up is a row of 9 for me

just cause that is what fits.

and i make every line use all 9. even if they run at 20%

and it saves power, cause im a tight ass

[bleak coral]

sure it's all scalable, there's not really any "plans" people pass around, they just do the math by hand/in spreadsheets or use the calculators and experiment with different recipes

12 iron > RIPs is the same as 120 > RIPs, just with bigger numbers

[kindred plover]

but you're not always able to use the iron right

[kindred plover]

ooh

[bleak coral]

what do you mean?

[fringe pawn]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production

[kindred plover]

yeah I know the tool Red Maw just wasn't able to figure it out 😄

[bleak coral]

@spiral flare btw for resource efficiency technically steel rods > normal screws is the most efficient, y'know if you just feel like making a ton of fucking constructors for some reason lol

I'm not sure I've ever actually heard of anyone doing that combo though, cause normal screws is so damn slow

[spiral flare]

hehe, i dont like screws, so this is personally my favorite alternative

[bleak coral]

the real trick is just avoiding screws

all screw recipes have a screwless alt, and for most of them it's actually more efficient too

[near lion]

This is even better when you got copper node near

[frosty owl]

I think the entire "bolted Vs stitched" thing can be boiled down to: you want speed or you want efficiency?

Funfact: uranium cells for the UFR alt are nearly impossible to sushi
Since THEF needs 100 of them each production cycle and they stack in 200s, they can easily start backing up behind the MF, blocking sushi

[kindred plover]

sushi?

[frosty owl]

When you mix items on one belt
Eg: merge screws and plates on a belt to feed a reinforced plates assembler

[thorn bane]

not realy because there is way too much iron on the map so the default recipes for rotor, reinforced iron plates, modular frames etc. are the most efficient

[frosty owl]

@fierce ruin Remember that talk about wether or not setting a number in the output field of a machine could give that exact output or if the actual output's precision is still affected by the clock?
Funnily enough, I might be able to test for that with my sushi HMF setup
Here's the deal: it should run perfectly if all machines produce exactly as much as they should, right? Well, turns out it seems encased beams are lacking a tiny bit (screws filled the manif's output after ~540 HMF were produced). The encased beams assemblers have enough steel pipes, but concrete seem to fall behind a bit... And guess how's that concrete made...? With .3333% clocks!
I don't recall the exact clock right now, but it's 50 concrete/min made by 4 constructors at 12.5/min each. I set them to 12.5 but the game clocked them all at something.3333%. I now clocked two of them at .3334% instead, and reset the system to let it run more and see if this changes anything

Yay for text walls

[fierce ruin]

So % is all that matters and the ppm text input is a lie.

Great...

[frosty owl]

This was the first time I checked back on it, results should not be taken for certain 😅
It could have lacked something that isn't encased beams, or I could have .3333 clocks somewhere else in the lines... hard to tell

[fierce ruin]

Well certain parts of the turbo plant are done in exact ppm so YAY for a week's worth of effort possibly meaning nothing.

[frosty owl]

As long as it still coincides with a non-rounded clock, it's fine
Also, the imprecision is really small, so only extra delicate setup suffer from it, in most cases it should only mean a spike in the power graph every now and then

[wind spade]

yeah exactly. That's already known

[fierce ruin]

Rubbing it in isn't exactly helpful @wind spade

[wind spade]

or rather it's not a lie, it's just rounded to closest ipm that's reachable with 4 digit decimal precision of oc %

[fringe pawn]

So a formula isn't any better in that field?

[wind spade]

if there's a formula, it first gets calculated to a result and that then is considered as if it was inputted in the first place

[wind spade]

well I had extra info that I put in the second message, but yeah, blame me for not writing fast enough 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

It's not about info. It's about tone.

Me: Being hopeful.
Sushi: Disproves hope.
Me: Being sad with hope disproved.
You: Yeah dipshit, why the fuck did you ever hope you stupid fuck?

Is how "yeah exactly" reads.

[wind spade]

no, it's just "yes, you're right, it's exactly like that"

just confirming your statement 🤷‍♂️

I wonder how you can get "tone" from text message on discord

[bleak coral]

1. iron wire > stitched plates is all iron, and uses the least iron (of iron-only options)
2. default modular uses rods not screws
3. I did say most not all, cause copper rotor is the most weighted resource efficient for rotor

though you do need steamed copper sheet to make copper rotor better than the default 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

also "there's too much iron on the map" doesn't change anything on the fact that screwless recipes are most resource efficient

[hollow juniper]

I have 200 hours in this game and ive never seen these

tf?

[hot crystal]

they are everywhere but they don't do anything really

they just sit and walk around

[errant mesa]

And obstruct building construction 😐

[fierce ruin]

the most useful alt recipe ever to increase my pocket dimension and the most useless alt next to it like who wants that we got drill miners why would anyone need that lmao

[magic sparrow]

Automating those is a nice convenience. Pocket inflation is the better option yes

[fierce ruin]

I just meant the miner like that's so useless the beacon is useless to automate but I mean it's better than the miner if the pocket dimension wasn't there idk what I would do

[hollow juniper]

ITs the inverted ramps that coveryer lifts can go through right?

[marble bramble]

anyone got a video for the best oil power setup?

[keen patio]

Heh... Beacon useless to automate.. oh buddy... just you wait.

[fringe pawn]

Well, beacons are such a low volume item that I wouldn't prioritize its alt regardless. I certainly wouldn't change anything if I had already automated it. Of course there are definitely worse alts.

[fierce ruin]

Pretty sure it's the corner ramps, the ones that take up a whole square but have one corner slanting down.
If you want a cleaner look you can place 2 in the same space, facing in opposite directions

[wind spade]

It's needed for drones

[fierce ruin]

If you're setting up an enormous drone hub it might be nice to have a container full of miners to refill from rather than crafting them as you go but that's sorta a one time thing, and how much difference does it really make?

[wind spade]

also miners 🤷‍♂️

[bleak coral]

obligatory mention that they don't stack, so even though it could be convenient they take up too much inventory space to actually be convenient

vs a couple stacks of plates/rods that gets you a ton for only a couple inventory slots

[fierce ruin]

@wind spade Well, yes, but how many nodes are you going to be exploiting in the same place at the same time?
When you go out to set up a new factory surely you don't fill up half your inventory with portable miners?

[wind spade]

hey I'm not saying "always use this recipe". I'm saying that it's situational, but I can see it being used at least by some people

[bleak coral]

you'd waste more time running back to get the building material for everything else after building the drones or miners cause your inventory is filled with portable miners than you would if you just hand-make them as needed on the spot

[wind spade]

well you can always transport the miners to where your drone hub is 🤷‍♂️

or put them on build train/in build vehicle

[fierce ruin]

"being used by some people", well sure, I've used either charcoal or biocoal once when I needed som steel for something and didn't have any coal nearby. Doesn't make those desirable recipes.
Had I not hat them I could have gone and found some coal instead.

[wind spade]

hence my point, that it's not completely useless

and I'd argue that it's more useful than biocoal

[bleak coral]

nah it's completely useless, all that stuff is just a bunch of wasted time

[wind spade]

but that's subjective anyway

[bleak coral]

they get made at a rate of 1 every 2.5 seconds for handmaking, and one stack of plates + one stack of rods makes 48

even if it was still technically worse if they stacked to like 20 or something, I could see it cause you don't need that many at once

but taking up like a third of your inventory then having to run back, or making complicated setups to bring them to you is a waste of time

when you can just plop an equipment workshop down and fart them out at 24 per minute, when you need like 12 at a time or something

[fierce ruin]

Except once, when making a main drone hub.

[wind spade]

there's something about handcrafting stuff in a game about automation that just makes the recipe worth for me 🤷‍♂️

[bleak coral]

I agree that automation should be better, but it being automated doesn't make it make it better by virtue

the fact that it's substantially worse is a problem

[wind spade]

it does make it automated tho

[frosty owl]

Referring to the last paragraph of this message, do you think changing the clock like so could "fix" the concrete output?
@wind spade

[wind spade]

clocking buildings to more than needed should fix the issues. Building not running at 100% isn't a big issue

[frosty owl]

Depends on the setup
That one setup is delicate enough it actually shows if there is such imprecision going on, thus my question

I'll still be monitoring it to know and see, but confirming/disproving theories in chat can be helpful too (and quicker)

[wind spade]

buildings not running at 100% are not an issue unless you're doing some "bad" stuff like putting several items on one belt 😉

[frosty owl]

@radiant harness (Moving convo as it pertains here)
By "reliable" I meant a way to make the belt be able to survive some basic stuff like power going on/off and such without messing up

[radiant harness]

it should be fine with a merger it should be surviving the power going out

[frosty owl]

No, if the belts before the merger have different lengths, the closest mkner could fill up the machines' inventory before the ore comes from the other again (too far, taking long to reach)
Depends on how you set it up, but I've avoided doing that for now

[terse shell]

How much better are classic batteries vs regular batteries? I'm about to start my battery production line but i dont have the battery alt recipe yet. Is it worth searching for it or are the battery recipes about equal in value?

[wind spade]

on it's own it doesn't seem better 🤔 but the most optimal path resource-wise is with classic battery alt, so I'd say it's up to you

[versed violet]

Raising hand:
I do automate the miners (for temp purposes) because I use them as slot-plugs for caontainers where I don't want to use all 24 slots. Who needs 2400 of turbomotors for building anyway?

[sand epoch]

2400? no one. 4800? EVERYONE. 🙂 above that get sunk..

[versed violet]

I see no reason to store so much for personal use, would rather sink after getting 2 slots.

[wind spade]

why would you fill two ISCs with turbomotors?

even one ISC is way more than what you really need

[fringe pawn]

3 per MK3 miner and 10 per particle accelerator. Miners are limited, but I guess if you were going nuts with underclocked particle accelerators you might need lots of turbo motors.

[versed violet]

I naivelly assume these turbomotors are being constantly produced and refresh by the time I use them up

Having a quick look at my waste recycling outpost, I'll need a grand total of 120 turbomotors for accelerators. And thats recycling nearly 1/3rd of uranium available on whole map 😂

[lunar geode]

What is the consumption and proportion of coal-fueled power?

8Gx3W + 120 coal/pm?

[versed violet]

yes

[wind spade]

my brain automatically was like 8Gx3W that's 24GW, that's a bit too much for coal plant, isn't it?

[versed violet]

I was more like 8G? we barely got 5G here.

[bleak coral]

Give it a month, AT&T will just rebrand some form of 5G as 8G

[fierce ruin]

Or 8W

[lunar geode]

https://tenor.com/view/math-calculate-confusing-figure-out-gif-6237717

[versed violet]

There is something oddly wrong with that gif.
First is triangle - OK
Second is cone, which is triangle rotated
Third is sphere, which is not another iteration of rotating triangle. It should be some kind of 4d object (that I have no name for)!

[lunar geode]

What proportion do you use for iron, copper and caterium ingots?

480 or 780 ?

[versed violet]

Max belt from miner.
Some people complain the top speed belts have loss at lower fps, so its recommended to split after first section.
Or you can just assume 'it works' and use max tier belts for manifolding.

[earnest lantern]

nope, you can approximate the sphere surface with a sum of circles with infinitesimal small radii and if you project this circles to the point in the sphere centre you have a sphere as a sum of cones. Mathematics does not mean being without creativity.😉

[fierce ruin]

It does mean changing words that already have definitions though 🙂

[empty glade]

But the cone wouldn't fit inside the sphere pictured, as h=2r, assuming an isosceles triangle as pictured.

[earnest lantern]

not the same r. Call the radius for the Cone r_c and for the sphere r_s. The radius r_c you make infinitesimal small, it is still a circle, just very very small.
The Tip of the cones lying in the centre of the sphere, therefor is the high of every cones h=r_s, the high of the cones is equal to the sphere radius.
And then you can fill the sphere along the polar angle 0 till 360 degree and along the azimut angle with cones.
Because you made the circle of the base of the cones infinitesimal small, you need infinite cones to create the sphere.
sorry, that was a little off topic.
But that's the great thing about infinitesimal calculus

[frosty owl]

Just like any other technical subject requiring an extensive terminology

[fierce ruin]

Many of those subjects make their own terms though.
Or at least give you a list of redefined terms when you approach them.

[frosty owl]

Blame your math teacher if he didn't ^^

[fierce ruin]

I made it nearly 3 decades of living and did multiple levels of calculus until someone in this Discord explained to me that "in math infinity doesn't actually mean infinite, it means big enough that we stopped caring about counting it."

[earnest lantern]

what? infinity is simple larger as any number

[frosty owl]

That's a concept I got tought in my first calculus class about Infinities 🤷‍♂️
I guess it depends on your teach

[fierce ruin]

Indeed.

[earnest lantern]

You have to be careful, there are countably infinite and the infinite that we use all the time, e.g. in school.

countable and uncountable, last we use very often

[fierce ruin]

Outside of math infinity means "without end".
Which is a yes/no statement. Something either is infinite, or it is not.

Inside of math you have the concept of one "infinite" number being bigger than another. Which by every single definition except for math's of the term isn't possible because infinity doesn't have a size, it simply is.

However math made their own "we went until we stopped caring about counting it" definition, hence you have sizes of infinity within math.

[earnest lantern]

because of that infinity + infinity is infintiy, or infinity^infinity it is infinity.
infintiy - infinity?

also infinity

[frosty owl]

Taylor go brr...

[earnest lantern]

Taylor series, cool

[fierce ruin]

Are you asking what an unending amount subtracted from an unending amount would be?

[earnest lantern]

ask the public.
Every non math fan answer the same , is zero, a bit funny, but understandable

[fierce ruin]

That's because by every single definition of infinity outside of math the term is unquestionably binary in nature.
So yes, if you take unending out of unending you are left with nothing.

Math, being the weird place of definitions it can be sometimes, has a different interaction for infinity.

Because of some unknown reason.

[earnest lantern]

but yeah, the concept of infinity is a bit weird, you use it as a number, but it is also only a symbol, with no measure.
Subtract to things like infinty, infinity has no measure, tehrefor it will be infinity

[fierce ruin]

I don't think it is weird. I think math people made it weird and idk why.

[oblique hollow]

stay away with your taylor series and radii of convergence

[frosty owl]

Not redifining words in tecnical subjects just to make it more understandable for people outside of that sphere of knowledge would, ironically, make the subject even harder to understand unless one learned all the tecnical terms needed
At least you start off with a generic understanding of some of the words

[earnest lantern]

I hated university math, it is more like bureaucracy and I hate bureaucracy.
Learning Theorem, definition, proof again and again and again.
Fortunately I am a physicist and not a mathematician

and again, boring

[frosty owl]

That's the simplest way to solve that kind of operation 😆

[oblique hollow]

all this from a feckin meme gif

[frosty owl]

What, we can't talk math in #math-and-meta now? 😒

[earnest lantern]

Maths is not that hard, you need time to get into it. But it's worth it.
Unfortunately, bad teachers often take the fun out of maths, unfortunately.

[oblique hollow]

its only 50% math and 0% meta so its only 50% on topic and therefore failed its course

[fierce ruin]

You already have to learn the terms though?
No one goes into math knowing what a sine/cosine is.
You have to learn what ohms and shit are when you go into electrical subjects.
Infinity is one of the only coopted words they changed that I can think of tbh.

[frosty owl]

Just like for any other subject, imo
All abstract subjects can be very hard to get a good understanding of