#math-and-meta | Satisfactory | Page 549

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 6:51 PM

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hold alt and scroll

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then you get a new hotbar

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you get 10 hotbars with 10 slots. that makes 100 quickslots

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:08 PM

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How to do a two-way splitter with an input of 580/m, and one of the outputs is 300/m while the other one is 280/m?

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 8:10 PM

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I like to set up my hotbats for doing different things

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Like one for piping one for conveyers

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:11 PM

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wanton belfry How to do a two-way splitter with an input of 580/m, and one of the outputs is 3...

belts?

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or pipes

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:11 PM

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belts

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man i wish there was a valve for conveyor belts. is there such a thing?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:12 PM

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nope.

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:12 PM

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damn.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:12 PM

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best you can do is just let it overflow

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:12 PM

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nooooooooooooooo

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:13 PM

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Welcome to Early Access, aka "Hell for OCD"

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:13 PM

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someone needs to make a splitter calculator

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:13 PM

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it has been brought up to the devs though

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:13 PM

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are those ores?

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cause the simpliest solution is to avoid the problem in the first place

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by manipulating machine counts and clock speeds

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:13 PM

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Also that's not OCD, stop calling everything OCD, I have actual OCD and it's annoying when people use that word casually

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:13 PM

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bleak coral are those ores?

it's quickwire

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:14 PM

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what then?

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:14 PM

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yeah, so the trick is to have two clusters of machines, one making 280/m and the other 300/m and not merge them in the first place

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:15 PM

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under/overclocking is your friend there

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:15 PM

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oblique hollow what then?

perfectionist

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:15 PM

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ech, my dad is one of those

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i cant stand that mindset

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:16 PM

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bleak coral yeah, so the trick is to have two clusters of machines, one making 280/m and the...

Sounds easy eno- fuck

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:16 PM

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didn't promise nice numbers jacelul

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overflow or "close enough" - pick your poison

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:17 PM

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i swear this game is gonna make me get a phd if it doesnt make me shoot myself first

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:17 PM

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it does make people do 4th grade math again

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:17 PM

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thats phd for me

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:18 PM

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fear the decimals

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:18 PM

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nooooooooooooooooooooooo

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:18 PM

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that number shouldnt be a problem tho

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you enter 82,2758 % into one of the machines

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and you are good to go

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:18 PM

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I mean the split you were going for was a 48.275862068966% / 51.724137931035% split 🤷‍♂️

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:19 PM

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but then one of the inputs is gonna overflow

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:19 PM

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then choose better numbers instead of 300 and 280

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:19 PM

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NEVER

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:19 PM

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why not 600

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:19 PM

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because the online tool said so

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:20 PM

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you could also enter 82.2759% and let it run slightly inefficiently

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turning off every few hours or so

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:20 PM

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welcome to perfectionist hell

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:20 PM

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i will not, thank you very much

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:20 PM

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have you played around with pipes yet?

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:20 PM

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oh god

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:20 PM

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don't need to add percentages at all, the output rate usually gives more precise numbers

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:20 PM

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i can assure you those will ACTUALLY frustrate you

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:21 PM

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ornate shoal don't need to add percentages at all, the output rate usually gives more precise...

sometimes, depends on the numbers

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output rate is only two decimals precision

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:21 PM

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maybe i'll just make a splitter into 2 and then each side will have 290/m and then i add 29 splitters in each side and subtract the last one from one side and move it to the other side

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:21 PM

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yeah, just over-engineer some 20-splitter array

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:21 PM

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output rate can give you like 3.33333... and so on percentages

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whenever i take my numbers from satisfactory tools i use output rates for clocks, in the end the numbers are more precise

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:22 PM

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oblique hollow yeah, just over-engineer some 20-splitter array

exactly

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:23 PM

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yeah that's why I said sometimes, cause like if it's 1/3rd and 1/3rd is 5, output is better

but if you get into like 8ths or irrational numbers or something that needs more than 2 decimals, then clock speed is better for the extra 2 decimals spaces

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:24 PM

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oblique hollow have you played around with pipes yet?

honestly they're much easier to balance than conveyors because valves

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:24 PM

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hmm, satisfactorytools never gives me so many numbers though. and if i do my own calculations, they are simple ones

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:25 PM

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wanton belfry honestly they're much easier to balance than conveyors because valves

except valves are inaccurate and also pipes are bug ridden and you lose 5 m³ from every machine input / output every time you load the game

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:25 PM

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satisfactory tools rounds to 2 decimal places, partly cause it was made before we even had decimals for over/underclocking

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:25 PM

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so 100% efficient pipe setups dont actually work 100% efficient

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:25 PM

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oblique hollow except valves are inaccurate and also pipes are bug ridden and you lose 5 m³ fro...

Wait, valves are inaccurate? damn, if they were accurate they would be like balancing through manifold

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:25 PM

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and if your numbers are always nice, that's cool, but that's not the case for everyone

wind spade Jul 23, 2021, 8:25 PM

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bleak coral satisfactory tools rounds to 2 decimal places, partly cause it was made before w...

partly because it's dev is super lazy to implement setting for that

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:26 PM

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bleak coral satisfactory tools rounds to 2 decimal places, partly cause it was made before w...

ok but it shows output value and that usually does the trick

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:26 PM

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wind spade partly because it's dev is super lazy to implement setting for that

yeah lazy dev, giving us a great free tool and spending spare time on the 2.0 upgrade 😛

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:26 PM

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wanton belfry Wait, valves are inaccurate? damn, if they were accurate they would be like bala...

valve's throughput depends on the fill level of the pipe before it. if your pipe is not 100% full, you get less than the limit you set.

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and also if you feed a machine exactly what it needs, just after 2 save/reload cycles it will enter idle mode momentarily because those 2 loads deleted 10 m³ from it

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:29 PM

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yeah, piping is horrible right now, i have overclocked most of my water extractor setups to some random number, because otherwise they don't produce enough, no valves or buffers seem to help

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:29 PM

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btw, @wanton belfry got a screenshot of what the calculator told you?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:30 PM

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ornate shoal yeah, piping is horrible right now, i have overclocked most of my water extracto...

Nuclear?

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:30 PM

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everything, mostly turbofuel and aluminum

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:30 PM

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EA be like

bleak coral Jul 23, 2021, 8:31 PM

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I should shutoff some of my turbofuel generators, just to get them to be stable with the bug

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:32 PM

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delicious Oscillation , directly around the max consumption line

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:32 PM

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i play with valves to starve them for a little while and then once my buffers are full i release the valves, to give boost, but eventually they still start running dry, just mildly annoying

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:33 PM

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might be because you are affected by the save/load bug

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if you have a lot of machines, you lose a lot

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:34 PM

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i probably am, although i admit that i try to run 600 water through a pipe in my production side, so that's probably also not that good

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:34 PM

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oblique hollow btw, <@!335448516195516417> got a screenshot of what the calculator told you?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:35 PM

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116 ingots in, how do you not use overflow there

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7,73 smelters... 9,67 constructors

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:35 PM

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ok so with the 7,73

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i assumed (and was correct) that it was 7.73333333333333

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so i just divided it by 8

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and got 0.96666666666666666666

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:36 PM

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could be 7.725

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:37 PM

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no it's not i checked in game

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:37 PM

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try to ask the ingot count from smelter and see what precentage it gives you

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:37 PM

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so i put 8 smelters on %96.6666666 overflow, and that's basically what i do with every decimel

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:38 PM

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do you know that you can add formulas to that field?

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:38 PM

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wdym

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:38 PM

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you can write something like 100*1/3 and it gives you 3.33333

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:38 PM

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and why didnt you group the quickwire constructors into a group of 5 and 4,66666666

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thats still 5 whole machines on each side

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:38 PM

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((Don't mean to interupt, but I'm hoping someone can give me an idea of how I should divy up the games 6840 available Sulfur? 1, 780 belt of batteries uses 1170 Sulfur.. and I know nuclear uses sulfur.. and some of the new parts.. etc etc... So is there a good ratio of use? is 780 batteries/min too much? too little? (for drones I guess?)

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 8:39 PM

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oblique hollow thats still 5 whole machines on each side

oh boy that's actually really smart you might've just solved my problem tysm, i just couldn't manage to do the math

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:39 PM

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keen patio ((Don't mean to interupt, but I'm hoping someone can give me an idea of how I sh...

that entirely depends on how many drones you use and how many Magnetic Field Generators you want to build / min

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sooooooo no, there is no ratio

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because there is no absolute path

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:40 PM

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oblique hollow that entirely depends on how many drones you use and how many Magnetic Field Gen...

Are MFG's the new 'best' (eg tickets, like turbomotors?)

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:40 PM

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no, they are not that good for sink

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:40 PM

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nope, that would be the Thermal Propulsion rockets

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:40 PM

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assembly director system is also up there, and nuclear pasta

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:40 PM

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though they are both slow

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0,75/min for ADS and 0,5 for Pasta

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:41 PM

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i'm making 8 pasta/min 😋

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:41 PM

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Hmm, so those are both project parts.. Oi....

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So it sounds like what I need to do is to be ready to throttle down sulfur use on various parts if I want to throttle up elsewhere...

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:41 PM

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all the highest point parts are project parts now

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main uses for sulfur really are just nuclear refinement and batteries

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im still pushing for acceptance of Instant Scrap because you cant even use up all the sulfur for nuclear

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and doing 90000 turbofuel generators is madness

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:43 PM

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Yea.. thats where I was getting to with turbofuel.. was like.. do I realllllly want to do that or just do nuclear now that you can sink waste (after processing)

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:44 PM

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after like 100 turbofuel gens, the effort invested is equal to just setting up 6 nuclear power plants

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:44 PM

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btw; you dont happen to have a layout picture/guide for Sloppy Alumina -> Aluminum Scrap by chance?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:44 PM

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ah, you will need quartz / pure ingots for that

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:44 PM

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I'm still recovering from U3->U4 and redoing aluminum now.. and the wastewater mechanic is throwing me this time 😦

ornate shoal Jul 23, 2021, 8:45 PM

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i'm building a fairly modest nuclear setup right now and feel like turbofuel would have take far less time. generators is the only reason i said no to more turbofuel

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:45 PM

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either you pay with quartz to get more aluminum out of it, or you say screw it and get less out by using the pure aluminum ingots recipe

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:45 PM

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I have all the quartz/silica stuff down.. its just the refinery part with wastewater.

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after about 8 hours I 'think' I solved my original problem (mixing waste with new water).. by adding a valve at the water extractor to prevent its buffer from backwashing everything

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but was wondering if there was a better way.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:46 PM

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uh, it should be: 5 scrap refineries to 3 sloppy ones

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sorry, what i mean is

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:47 PM

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So I made it harder on myself (modded).. my refinery is 5 in 1... so I get to underclock things to make them work.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:47 PM

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5 to 5, but 3 of the sloppy ones ONLY get wastewater

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:47 PM

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so instead of 2 rows of 5, I have 2... just 2, refineries

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:47 PM

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so 2 sloppy ones receive fresh, the other 3 receive all the byprodcut water

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:47 PM

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Makes the math quite fun 😄

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:47 PM

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keen patio so instead of 2 rows of 5, I have 2... just 2, refineries

ah.... try the VIP junction? no math there xd

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keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:48 PM

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I managed to solve the problem without that (I heard about it).. via 2 valves; 1 after the extractor to slow the flow to minimum needed, and 1 at the end of the wastewater pipe to ensure it doesn't get backwash from the new water if the Aluminum Scrap backs up.

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In that graphic; when it says lowest input; it means.. the physical LOWER? or the lowest liquid rate.. or..?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:49 PM

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physically lower input

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even if the top input was on 300/min and the bottom at like 60, the bottom one gets priority

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:50 PM

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and the pumps/valves are just there to prevent backwashing yea?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:50 PM

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that and, if you built the junction very tall due to many inputs or whatnot, to supply head lift

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as far as im aware, the bottom input NEEDS a pump or valve

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:51 PM

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Hmm, I think I basically have a horizontal version of that; but it works due to the amount of water Im letting in via valve control.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:51 PM

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horizontal VIP does not exist

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:51 PM

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err; my text is not explaining right.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:51 PM

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as priority only exists in vertical junctions

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:52 PM

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I don't need priority control, I just have to prevent the buffer in my extractor from flooding the system

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:52 PM

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yea, thats usually done by limiting it with a valve and underclocking

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though it is prone to clogging if, say, something happened

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such systems must always run at 100% efficiency

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else they clog

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:53 PM

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((Sorry if it seems like Im going in circles here; I've 'solved' the problem myself in a way that works... but I'm looking to see if there is a better way to set it up. And it appears the way Ive set it up is the way to do it.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:53 PM

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btw, how much water do your mod refineries take in and give out?

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:53 PM

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It (my system) works if the solid backs up and is later restored.. managed to test that last night

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at max? well over pipe limits, for alumina recipes. So they have to be underclocked.

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Thankfully the fuel recipes are all a bit lower base values, so the 5x multiplier doesn't break pipes.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:54 PM

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i just want the general numbers at the same percentage

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:54 PM

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they are 5x the base recipe.. ummm so I think they want like 1000 water for sloppy alumina.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:54 PM

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so just x 5?

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:54 PM

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(Im not ingame right now)

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its MK++.. basically 5x production for 5x power cost

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I use it to help save FPS.

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and I try not to abuse the underclocking .. cause the formula is wonky and saves me WAYYY to much power.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 8:58 PM

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keen patio (Im not ingame right now)

2 refineries for sloppy, one at 0,4 the other at 0,6, both feed into one scrap refinery
the water from the scrap refinery goes to the 0,6 Sloppy Refinery

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that would be the safest way

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 8:59 PM

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I currently have it as 1 sloppy 1 scrap, both at 44%, with fluid buffers and valves, and its working at ~98% efficiency

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I didnt want to risk a water overflow so its deliberately set higher on water use than it can be provided.

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The goal being; a small modular easy to duplicate system that outputs 780 scrap

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Would you like to see it? can do a call and share (loading in now)

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:01 PM

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nah, im good

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:01 PM

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But to ask; what do you mean safest? least likely to jam up?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:02 PM

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yep

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since if something happens with the aluminum, then the system wouldnt clog with water

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systems with valves are unsafe

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:02 PM

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in your example; is there 2 scrap refineries, or just 1?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:02 PM

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2

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as one would receive only fresh, the other only wastewater

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:03 PM

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err, thats sloppy.. meant the aluminum scrap part.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:03 PM

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this infosheet is for normal gameplay

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:03 PM

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keen patio err, thats sloppy.. meant the aluminum scrap part.

oops. yeah, that, though the clocking would need to be adjusted

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else it outputs like 360*5

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:04 PM

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Oo, thats exactly the graphic type I was looking for.

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is this somewhere on the wiki and I missed it or..?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:04 PM

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nope, not on the wiki yet

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available on reddit, link in #math-and-meta Pins

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its currently sitting around on my google drive

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:04 PM

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nod, I will take a look. Thank you very much!

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oh uh, not sure if you're the person I should mention this to.. but all the links to greeny's calc default load up U3 stuff.

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It may be worth updating the links to the U4.. or at least mentioning in the pins to ensure you go to the U4 version of the site

wind spade Jul 23, 2021, 9:06 PM

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I just need to add a popup like "you're on U3 site are you sure"

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:07 PM

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the "https://satisfactory.tash.fyi/ User-uploaded blueprints made using draw.io" is down or apparently for sale.

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:16 PM

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oblique hollow its currently sitting around on my google drive

Are you interested in any feedback/input on the page 12 you linked me? -- You mentioned the valve systems are unsafe, and I 'may' know why .. (unsure if I'm right tho) .. specifically referring to Solution 1 on page 12.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:16 PM

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I can think of many reasons

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valves, for one, are slightly inaccurate

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:17 PM

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I did notice that!

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:17 PM

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also, should you for some reason cut off any coal or bauxite input, then the refineries will idle

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and that allows the water extractors to inject extra water

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lastly, recently, a bug was rediscovered

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everytime you load the savefile, you lose 5m³ from every machine input and output pipe

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:18 PM

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What I'm referring to is that I use an additional valve on the "60m^3 byproduct", just before the junction where it merges with the fresh water. This prevents the backwash from the reduced speed water extractor from flooding the wastewater pipe if there is a solid backup (or lack of bauxite/coal)

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:19 PM

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yeah, solid backups in general also make the system vulnerable

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which is why i wrote "This only works if everything is at 100% efficiency"

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:19 PM

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Err my point being is that it (the 2nd valve to block backwash), allows it to work even if its not 100% efficient.

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eg; I tested backups on the scrap, coal lack, etc etc.

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but the moment the 'problem' was rectified, the system worked with no water issues.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:19 PM

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problem is that that solution does not work every time

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i did test multiple junctions leading to a valve

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:20 PM

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confused; what am I missing here.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:20 PM

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and what i saw was not very satisfying

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you basically built a low budget priority system

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:20 PM

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What about valve leading to junction tho?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:21 PM

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a valve can enforce a very weak priority

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though I could not verify the stability

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:21 PM

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nod

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:21 PM

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which is why i never pursued that path further

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while the VIP showed 100% stable priority

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so thats why i adobpted it into my manual

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i just couldnt trust the priority system like the one you use

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:22 PM

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Makes sense, alrighty.. (and sorry to pester you, just trying to be helpful)

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:22 PM

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its ok

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im here to help with pipes after all

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you basically employed a low level VIP junction

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if it works for you, thats great

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though i cant trust it

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:23 PM

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and me using modded refineries doesn't help the issue I'm sure 😄

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:23 PM

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yeah, i cant exclude that possibility

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i tested the VIP with mods and on vanilla

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and it worked every time

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and according to what other people said, it works for them too

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of course my manual isnt a rulebook

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you can find other ways to deal with pipe problems

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:24 PM

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I wonder; did you test your VIP system at varying 'heights' ? because looking at what I got, my 'water extractor' sits higher than the rest of the pipes..

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:24 PM

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keen patio I wonder; did you test your VIP system at varying 'heights' ? because looking at...

i did

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aaaaand it does not affect it

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:24 PM

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so if just a little bit of height is needed to trigger the VIP.. then I might just accidentally be using it..

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:25 PM

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if you have a pipe coming from a mountain and connect it to the bottom input, it STILL receives priority

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:25 PM

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I meant height of the lower priority input

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:25 PM

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oh, the top input

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:25 PM

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if the pipe junction is flat (not vertical) but the pipe is coming 'downhil angle', then does that trigger the lower priority VIP status?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:26 PM

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afaik no, flat junctions behave differently. i could try it real quick to verify

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:26 PM

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what I got:

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Up to you if you want to use your time.. but it might be interesting to see if I ended up with your system on accident, basically 🙂

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:31 PM

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tried this, will use 2 junctions in a moment.
so far: no stable priority detected

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:32 PM

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to confirm my understanding; your system is basically that junction flipped vertically; with that upper pipe coming in from the top?

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upper pipe = left/higher pipe* (edit; afk a minute here)

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:36 PM

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yeah, the upper pipe is the left one

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though, after using 2 junctions: suddenly, the upper pipe seems to take priority

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hmm.... the pipe with direct connection to the junction takes priority, even with valve

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near equal priority....

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:40 PM

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nod

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:40 PM

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keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:41 PM

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So its the opposite/unwanted upper pipe taking priority on horizontal junctions?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:41 PM

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yea, funny enough

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vertical junctions: bottom priority

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:41 PM

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Well that isn't convoluted enough /s

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:42 PM

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horizontal junctions: highest pipe has priority, if it has a valve

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:42 PM

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Query for you; if I take that horizontal junction in my picture to you (connected to the water extractor), flip it vertical, have the water extractor come in from above; is that basically your VIP with valves?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:43 PM

#

should be

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:43 PM

#

kk, thats easy enough for me to modify here

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:43 PM

#

the extractor should be lower priorty, if it comes in from the top

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:43 PM

#

nod

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:44 PM

#

though up until recently, no kind of priority with height was possible

#

it always was very sporadic

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:44 PM

#

err, you mean U4 changed something? or...?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:44 PM

#

im not sure

#

U4 broke a lot of "supposed" priority systems from people too

#

if i remember right

#

honestly its too hard to keep track

#

though i did know that, if you have 2 inputs to a junction, and one input has a valve, it takes priority

#

though it was never quite stable

#

#

what i do know is that junction priority is very stable because it forces the lower priority to 0 flow

#

which is "ideal priority" in my eyes

#

the flat junction with valves always had both inputs fluctuate

#

so i considered it "unstable priority"

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:49 PM

#

agreed.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:49 PM

#

thats why i also only settle on inlcuding the VIP in my manual

#

as it was the most stable and therefore most friendly to use for anyone

#

you didnt need to understand height or pressure or anything.
just one simple rule: "Lowest Pipe input has priority"

#

and that hold true in any case.
For horizontal junctions and valves, its not so simple

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:50 PM

#

What I have now:

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:50 PM

#

yeah that should be a VIP

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:50 PM

#

((Sorry for darkness, water extractor pipe is the one from the left.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:51 PM

#

does it get reduced?

#

the flow of the extractor

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:51 PM

#

Im unsure how to actually test that; the valve is set to 173.3

#

should I set valve to full flow?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:51 PM

#

try to flood the lower pipe

#

add another extractor maybe

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:51 PM

#

kk, momento

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:52 PM

#

and set both to like 300 flow

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:52 PM

#

its a modded one, it goes to 12,000 >.> its not supposed to but it does.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:52 PM

#

12000 xd

#

overkill, absolutely mad

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:52 PM

#

its a bug in the mod; its supposed to be 600

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:52 PM

#

ah

#

classic bugs

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:53 PM

#

Im having a strange keybind issue in game, I may need to restart it here to test, sorry give me a min.

#

eyedropper and ctrl key stopped working ingame, but was working in dismantle mode to select multiple objects.. so weird..

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 9:54 PM

#

i blame mods

#

jacelul

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 9:56 PM

#

it was working just fine.. and now it still isn't after a game restart.. this is super weird.

#

I had done something in options.. unchecking completely unrelated things that I changed and now control works again..

#

teach me to futz around in there >.>

#

setting up the pipe flood//awesomesink for scrap to not block system.

#

system is flooding (i have a fluid buffer to check.)

#

its not taking priority from the lower pipe.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:05 PM

#

try removing the flat junction

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:06 PM

#

oblique hollow try removing the flat junction

Would that include the fluid buffer as a 'flat junction' (not shown in picture; its at the start of the wastewater pipe) ? or leave that there for now?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:07 PM

#

eh, leave it, and add a valve

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:07 PM

#

already has valve (pictured) near the junction of the water extractor where the waste water comes in.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:07 PM

#

alright

#

really theres no nice way to test this with your setup

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:08 PM

#

Current:

#

adjusting water extractor valve to max now;

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:08 PM

#

try replacing the left valve with a pump

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:08 PM

#

noted; will try that next, watching waste buffer now

#

rapidly filling. Doh.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:09 PM

#

you did attach a second extractor, right?

#

for the test

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:09 PM

#

Do I need to power the pump?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:09 PM

#

yes

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:09 PM

#

No; its still just the 1 extractor there? it outputs at 600

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:09 PM

#

ah ok ok

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:09 PM

#

oblique hollow try replacing the left valve with a pump

So when do you change your name to "McGalleon | Piping Expert | Hates Valves" 🙃

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:10 PM

#

then im not surprised the buffer fills

#

buffers are like.... the weakest fluid structure, they cant force any flow

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:10 PM

#

fierce ruin So when do you change your name to "McGalleon | Piping Expert | Hates Valves" 🙃

they arent that bad, they are just inferior to pumps when it comes to enforcing flow

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:11 PM

#

with pump replacing valve and powered.. extractor flow opened... and... waste buffer fills rapidly 😦

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:11 PM

#

oblique hollow they arent that bad, they are just inferior to pumps when it comes to enforcing ...

Do you think they will fix that or are valves #WorkingAsIntended?

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:12 PM

#

I can pull up that VIP picture you have and try setting it up more like that, with the 2 vertical junctions (which may be what is required, instead of 1) ?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:12 PM

#

try it

#

ive seen people use only one junction, but that was always rather weak

#

youe seen it in my test: one flat junction, 2 valves, equal priorty

#

2 flat junctions, 2 valves, top pipe took priority

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:13 PM

#

err, flat? you mean vertical ?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:13 PM

#

so 2 junctions seem to be greater than 1 for priority

#

#math-and-meta message

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:14 PM

#

(Page 14)

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:14 PM

#

this but imagine another junction besides it

#

#

left pipe took priority if it came from higher up

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:15 PM

#

Amazes me how big the alu scrap stage is and how small the pure alu ingot stage seems...even tho thats 410 smelters 🙂

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:15 PM

#

Oh, I was going to do your vertical one that you're sure works?

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:15 PM

#

keen patio Oh, I was going to do your vertical one that you're sure works?

i was just demonstration 1 vs 2 junctions

#

i still prefer the vertical one built, just like in the manual

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:15 PM

#

nod

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:17 PM

#

@fierce ruin Proof that Pumps are superior

#

flow through valve: 0

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:18 PM

#

oblique hollow <@456226577798135808> Proof that Pumps are superior

Wasn't debating that they WERE.
Was asking if you think they will "fix" valves or if you think valves are the way they are intended to be atm.

#

🙂

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:18 PM

#

i think they are working as intended, and that is being pressure-dependant

#

just a few odd quirks

#

like the freaking Z0 bug

#

that comes from abusing valves

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:19 PM

#

Im using valves all over my alu factory, but for flow direction control and in some parts flow restriction

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:19 PM

#

Well maybe don't abuse them then? 🥺

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:19 PM

#

i only played around with the slider

#

and suddenly boom, valve breaks and starts generating free head lift

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:20 PM

#

lol

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:22 PM

#

Alrighty; testing with valves first; turning extractor output to 600:

#

Fluid buffer is filling/not enough wastewater is flowing out. resetting.

#

((its slower than it was before tho)

#

Just in case; retesting teh above without the extra horizontal junction in there (it was just for cosmetic)

#

No effect; removal of extra junction still has wastewater backup.

#

Attempting with pumps (powered). Powering water extractor now.

#

#

No dice; wastewater fluid buffer rapidly fills.

#

Quite possibly modded refineries screw with fluid flow; a limited valve setting was working acceptably for now 😦

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:31 PM

#

yea i blame the mod

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:32 PM

#

Im slightly surprised it would bother editing fluid mechanics when its a buildings mod.. shrug

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:32 PM

#

Speaking of fluid mods like fluid sink, found them more trouble than worth

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:33 PM

#

This is nothing that complex; just MK++ and Storage Teleporter for 'world changes'

#

+Smart for building.

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:33 PM

#

Smart! Should have no impact. Heck it cant auto build pipes anyway

#

Maybe mk++?

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:34 PM

#

Possibly; but thats what lets me run this game on my old rig (less buildings = more fps)

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:34 PM

#

But less fps = more authentic Satisfactory experience, no? 🙂

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:34 PM

#

Yea I hear your need.

#

Personally never used it

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:34 PM

#

:pitchfork: Sevrahn >.>

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:35 PM

#

That said, almost 150 refineries and 410 smelters in my alu factory seems small for a max build

#

No mod recipes

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:35 PM

#

Smelters?

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:36 PM

#

Pure alu ingot

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:36 PM

#

ah!

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:36 PM

#

I would need almost 8.7k quartz which is astronomical

#

Will only get another 4k ingots not worth it

#

Im using MM to get max out of pure nodes so this is a 12300 alu ingot build instead of 9780

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:37 PM

#

MM?

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:37 PM

#

Micro manage mod

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:37 PM

#

Wait, how does micromanage effect mining node output?

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:37 PM

#

Wouldn't that be MMM?

#

Or if specifically for miners MMMM? (ok I'll stop...)

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:38 PM

#

You can target the output of the miner to connect to the input of a splitter. Then you make two mk5 belts. Viola 1200 ore a min

wind spade Jul 23, 2021, 10:38 PM

#

fierce ruin Or if specifically for miners MMMM? (ok I'll stop...)

Maybe...

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:38 PM

#

ahh hthe connection trick.. didnt realize that worked to splitters.. Handy.

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:38 PM

#

Yea had a chat with the mod maker, even he didnt think of that

#

And It was not me who found it. Another user here told me about it. Forget who tho

#

And its stable, should even live if the mod gets disabled.

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:39 PM

#

The mod maker?
The MMMMMM?

#

😮

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:42 PM

#

keen patio ahh hthe connection trick.. didnt realize that worked to splitters.. Handy.

It does amaze me how much stuff MM has in its toolkit

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:42 PM

#

MmmHmm!

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:43 PM

#

And still amazed how small 410 smelters split on two floors really is in comparison to mass refinery setups

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:44 PM

#

@upbeat tide #screenshots Nuke it.

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:45 PM

#

Again, your obsessed with nuking stuff

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:45 PM

#

Fresh starts are soothing to me, what can I say?

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:45 PM

#

upbeat tide And still amazed how small 410 smelters split on two floors really is in compari...

You seem to be up there in teh tech in SF here... My plan was to use the standard Aluminum Ingot recipe and use 6287 quarts for all (9780) bauxite.. which leaves me around.... 4,000 quartz for other things.

is that a bad idea? will I need more quartz for other things?

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:46 PM

#

keen patio You seem to be up there in teh tech in SF here... My plan was to use the standar...

Qtz isn't really utilized in a lot of things, so you should be fine.

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:46 PM

#

Thats kinda how I was leaning.

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:46 PM

#

It honestly depends.

If you want to use alot of silicon high speed connectors, silicon circuit boards, and the uranium cell alt also uses alot of silica

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:47 PM

#

I just recently had a sulfur issue where I was like.. wait, I can't reserve all this for turbofuel, I'll need it for other things...

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:47 PM

#

Silicon Circuit Boards? 🤢

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:47 PM

#

You also want to use cheap silica alt either way

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:48 PM

#

Roger; Im using Greeny's calc for all recipe plans.. with some exceptions.. (eg; Im not making ALuminum with Sulfur or Oil)

wanton belfry Jul 23, 2021, 10:48 PM

#

By the way @oblique hollow regarding what we talked about earlier, i just ended up making a 30-way splitter, modifying it into a 29-way splitter and sending one of the lines to the other one lmao

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:48 PM

#

you madlad

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:48 PM

#

keen patio Roger; Im using Greeny's calc for all recipe plans.. with some exceptions.. (eg;...

DO use electrode scrap. Tho

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:49 PM

#

Pet Coke? ewwww

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:49 PM

#

I am now envisioning a splitter the size of a manufacturor with 30 outputs...

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:49 PM

#

Coke is good

fringe pawn Jul 23, 2021, 10:49 PM

#

Silicon circuit board pairs nicely with silicon high speed connector.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:49 PM

#

Especially the one white as snow

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:49 PM

#

keen patio Pet Coke? ewwww

Its far better than regular in terms of efficiency

#

Same with sloppy solution. Extracts the most out of bauxite

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:49 PM

#

that or just use Instant Scrap simon_smile

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:49 PM

#

Pet Coke is awesome. Idgaf what "weighted" resource value it has.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:50 PM

#

why use 2 alts when you can use 1

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:50 PM

#

using sloppy... and yea... Oil (pet coke) version does give me 2k more ingots (13k up from 11k)...

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:50 PM

#

#BlenderSuperiority

wind spade Jul 23, 2021, 10:50 PM

#

fierce ruin Pet Coke is awesome. Idgaf what "weighted" resource value it has.

none, only raw resources have weighted values

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:50 PM

#

@fierce ruin its actually weighted/recommended.. I just dislike extra oil processes so was hoping to avoid it.

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:50 PM

#

@oblique hollow if I went instant scrap, id need 4100 sulfur and 8100 coal 🙂

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:51 PM

#

wind spade none, only raw resources have weighted values

fair. I don't do "weights" the way most here seem to though, lol.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:51 PM

#

upbeat tide <@!597386533691064342> if I went instant scrap, id need 4100 sulfur and 8100 coa...

good, now do it yes

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:51 PM

#

Too late 🙂

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:51 PM

#

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:51 PM

#

Already have slop + electrode + pure built

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:51 PM

#

pure? dad

#

lame

fringe pawn Jul 23, 2021, 10:52 PM

#

I think the hassle of instant scrap is locating sulfur, more than the quantity.

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:52 PM

#

Ill need 8800 quartz and 15k limestone 😄

#

Needing 20500 silica is a bit ask

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:52 PM

#

fringe pawn I think the hassle of instant scrap is locating sulfur, more than the quantity.

Locating? We do have maps for that 😏

fringe pawn Jul 23, 2021, 10:53 PM

#

That doesn't change the fact that the limited locations make routing it more of a task.

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:53 PM

#

literally the same efficiency as just using the regular recipes

#

and you probably would need less silica there

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:53 PM

#

I know instant is just as good efficiency wise

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:53 PM

#

no i mean sloppy + electrode + pure

fierce ruin Jul 23, 2021, 10:53 PM

#

People who mod have routing issues? Just use the instant teleport all things mod 🙃

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:54 PM

#

You need just as much silica with instant as you do with slop + electrode

#

Im making 12300 ingots and with normal alu it would be 16400

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:54 PM

#

yeah but doing sloppy + electrode + pure literally does the same thing as just going the default alumina scrap and ingot route

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:54 PM

#

Not a huge bump for such a steep price

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:55 PM

#

actually.... you would get more out of it if you went with sloppy + normal scrap + pure

#

just need coal

#

no wait

#

biggger number is bad

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:56 PM

#

No you lose some

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:56 PM

#

i forgot

#

apparently, the default route saves the most quartz of the quartz-using recipes

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:57 PM

#

Yes because you get silica some anyway

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:57 PM

#

50% quartz per ingot

#

so for 12300... that would be 6150

#

with cheap silica.....

upbeat tide Jul 23, 2021, 10:58 PM

#

Yea thats more stomach-able for sure

#

Anyway chat later

oblique hollow Jul 23, 2021, 10:59 PM

#

cya

keen patio Jul 23, 2021, 10:59 PM

#

is saving that much quartz that needed?

fringe pawn Jul 23, 2021, 11:00 PM

#

Hard to say. Quartz can be used in many good recipes. Where you choose to use it is a matter of taste.

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 12:48 AM

#

Some of my most used quartz based alts is in high speed connectors, circuit boards, non fissle material, and encased uranium cells

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 12:50 AM

#

upbeat tide Some of my most used quartz based alts is in high speed connectors, circuit boar...

So you don't have that 816.67/min Crystal Oscillator factory?

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 12:51 AM

#

I have an 85 a min setup

#

51 for nuclear, 34 for whatever I desire to use it for

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 12:51 AM

#

Fair.

#

I don't think I even ever got that high.

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 12:52 AM

#

I decided to limit it based off a single belt of 600 rubber which was more than needed for nuclear, so will use excess in other stuff.

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 12:53 AM

#

I had a crystal beacon setup for my rifle cartridges that bled out like 1/min extra for storage.

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 12:53 AM

#

I have a 120 beacon factory but using default

#

Also for nuclear

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 12:54 AM

#

Now you have to grab them all and see how many beacons/min you can PLACE. 😛

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 12:54 AM

#

Lol

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 12:57 AM

#

Ok outside the EfficiencyLAST playthrough that I really want to try... only other thing I am curious about math-wise is:

Factoring out walking time, how fast could you speed run the game if you hand-built EVERYTHING outside of project assembly (which you could drop multiple machines for, but it would just be storage containers from hand-built items running to said machines).
Keeping in mind that more machines builds project parts faster, but you do bank time by needing to hand-build more components for said machines.

strong whale Jul 24, 2021, 5:43 AM

#

It would probably take longer than usually even, because you need to handcraft MASSIVE quantities of base items: like ingots, wire, etc, So you wouldnt be able to supply more that 2,3 project assembly part machines reliably, becoming EVEN SLOWER for high tier assembly parts (surely not even enough to reliably supply a machine at 25%)

#

And if you want to math it out, you’re gonna need the hand crafting speed for pretty much every item in the game, and the ration of that to the space elevator parts produced

#

Then you could probably take SC’s “items” tab in the production planner (plan out production of every space elevator part - could even be one factory) to get the ratios

#

And then combining all the ratio values with handcraft speed, you can get the total time required to produce whatever you selected for your factory above

#

And finally you can scale it down to how much you can manage in one minute to get amount of items your selected factory can make/min

clever orchid Jul 24, 2021, 7:05 AM

#

Not to taunt you here, but does ‘EVERYTHING’ include hand mining?

bronze marsh Jul 24, 2021, 7:33 AM

#

Anyone know the specific mechanics of radiation in this game? I have tried browsing the wiki but I cant seem to find the answer I am looking for.
Lets say all of my plutonium waste is stored in a massive matrix of industrial storage containers.
Will the effect of radiation infinitely expand, or does the effect drop off after some finite distance?
Will the radiation eventually take effect on the whole map?

chrome vortex Jul 24, 2021, 7:37 AM

#

Walls...

keen patio Jul 24, 2021, 7:48 AM

#

bronze marsh Anyone know the specific mechanics of radiation in this game? I have tried brows...

The wiki for 'radiation' explains the amount in an area and the distance, and provides a formula

#

!wikisearch radiation

shadow prairieBOT Jul 24, 2021, 7:48 AM

#

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=radiation

Satisfactory Wiki

Special:Search

Radiation - Official Satisfactory Wiki

bronze marsh Jul 24, 2021, 8:18 AM

#

I couldn't find my answer in the wiki but thank you anyway

fringe pawn Jul 24, 2021, 8:22 AM

#

I feel like the wiki examples on the radiation page would be improved by some context. For instance, the radius of the radiation bubble from 100 plutonium plants running for 1,000 hours.

#

And of course 1,000 hours of whatever the max number is.

bronze marsh Jul 24, 2021, 8:40 AM

#

Yeah that would be more useful information

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 1:30 PM

#

fierce ruin Ok outside the EfficiencyLAST playthrough that I really want to try... only othe...

Need machines for oil and nitrogen products ^^

#

Have you considered the 3 machines challenge yet? ^^
Where you finish the game with just 3 machines at a time

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:30 PM

#

oof

#

Working on EFLast design atm so I can make a post with the rules.

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 1:31 PM

#

3 is the minimum afaik (production machines + extractors and such)
Plus the HUB

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:32 PM

#

Cat CB's are automatically out. Deciding on if I should cut Silicon from available and leave just base+electrode

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:32 PM

#

its just one of the many fun cable paths

#

i know, it uses the pure

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:33 PM

#

oblique hollow its just one of the many fun cable paths

Oh you're going to be heartbroken...

#

Alternate HOR recipe disabled 😛

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:33 PM

#

then use the rubber recipe

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:33 PM

#

Pretty much.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:33 PM

#

makes hor AND rubber

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:34 PM

#

Overall goal is to minimize the amount of things you're Sinking though.
So if you're over-producing rubber just for HOR that would be "bad".

#

Though I'm still undecided on whether or not Rubber Concrete should be allowed.
Wet/Fine automatically disabled.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:35 PM

#

if you dont want MOST (imo) efficient, then avoid this combo:

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 1:36 PM

#

What's the EFL challenge, again?

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:36 PM

#

be a shitty pioneer? xd

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:36 PM

#

Least Efficient pretty much everything, lol.

#

Giving FICSIT the finger for putting you on this planet with the damn spooders.

#

Less screws than you would think tbh.

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 1:37 PM

#

Efficiency in what?

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:37 PM

#

heres alu, you get to choose which type of inefficiency you want

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:37 PM

#

Just Bolted Plate.
Bolted Frame is disabled.

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:38 PM

#

frosty owl Efficiency in what?

Mainly in resource cost to output ratios, but sometimes in "amount of buildings needed". Like Rods - Screws is the same ratio as Cast Screws, but Cast disabled forcing you to use that extra building for no reason.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:38 PM

#

if you want to annoy your players, go with normal pure ingots xd

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:39 PM

#

oblique hollow heres alu, you get to choose which type of inefficiency you want

I was debating between the AL Ingots recipes, this clears it up.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:39 PM

#

unfortunately there is no most inefficient......
Except for Normal and Pure Ingots, thats terrible for Bauxite

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:39 PM

#

Sloppy AL is disabled, Instant Scrap too.
Wasn't sure about Electrode Scrap though.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:40 PM

#

Electrode is quite good

#

its one part of the good recipe combo, Sloppy + Electrode

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:40 PM

#

Fair but the amount of Coke people are going to be slapping out due to the HOR not being recyclable... I felt badly.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:40 PM

#

Instant Scrap uses Sulfur, but has the same bauxite efficiency

#

so if you want inefficient, dont actually use Electrode, Instant or Sloppy

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:41 PM

#

I feel like this build is going to be 100% run on Coke Steel in the end game.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:41 PM

#

its actually quite good

#

the default steel recipe is the worst

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:42 PM

#

Yeah, I like it in non-challenge.
But taking it out leaves way too much HOR just sitting around since you have literally nothing else to do with it.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:42 PM

#

because its 1:1, the others are all not

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:42 PM

#

Unless you make all of your power off residual fuel.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:43 PM

#

if you want inefficient, then force your players to use coke and coal generators

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:43 PM

#

Compacted is actually the most resource eff from what I saw, but I could be wrong.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:43 PM

#

remember, coke is a valid fuel

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 1:43 PM

#

Coke burns at 25/min in gens

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:44 PM

#

O.O there's an idea. If I disable Coke Steel then you're going to want to save coal... meaning you're more inclined to burn coke in the generators.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:44 PM

#

1 coke refinery is enough for 4,8 generators

#

considering a single miner can be enough for 16

#

force them to burn coke

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:45 PM

#

This confirms me disabling Silicon CB's.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:45 PM

#

for circuit board, obviously you want rubber made from polymer resin alt and coke from HOR

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:46 PM

#

Poly Resin alt also disabled 😈

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:46 PM

#

for the Electrode Boards

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:46 PM

#

fierce ruin Poly Resin alt also disabled 😈

why, its terrible

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:46 PM

#

Compared to the inefficiency of forcing you to make fuel that many times just for poly?

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:47 PM

#

do fuel gens exist

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 1:47 PM

#

True, should totally use poly resin to make plastic rather than the standard recipe

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:47 PM

#

oblique hollow do fuel gens exist

Fair....

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:47 PM

#

disable rubber from resin

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:47 PM

#

Now THAT is evil.

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 1:47 PM

#

You set the rules 😉

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:48 PM

#

i wonder how doing fuel and recycled rubber would run

#

with plastic from polymer

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 1:48 PM

#

Btw, you're using crystal computers, right?

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:49 PM

#

Haven't gotten to comp yet.

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 1:49 PM

#

Osxillators+circuit boards. A must jacelul

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:49 PM

#

hrmmmm+

#

now lets see what happens if i turn residual rubber back on

#

ok,. residual wins

#

leave it on

#

but having fuel made is really something you dont want.
Sure, its the WORST Recipe to make fuel, but its still fuel

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:51 PM

#

I feel like if I disable the residual plastic/rubber it sort of solves it.

Because then you would loop for residual fuel unless you wanted to automate gas filters.
At which point you're forced to switch back to normal fuel to get the poly, but the only thing you can use it for is fabric.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:51 PM

#

forcing players to ONLY make resin and HOR though, with hor being turned into coke.....

#

hmmm....

#

no...

#

still more efficient

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:52 PM

#

Recycled is auto disabled because you guys broke me with that loop about how making recycled is 3x better than the base recipe.
So fuck recycling.

#

Should the baseline CB recipe stay or force only electrode?

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:54 PM

#

For Oil then:
Fuel is ok (no residual fuel tho)
No Rubber, only residual rubber
Plastic is ok, so is residual plastic
Hor gets turned to Coke

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:54 PM

#

fierce ruin Should the baseline CB recipe stay or force only electrode?

electrode uses a lot more oil

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:54 PM

#

Why disable residual fuel?

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:54 PM

#

why allow it?

#

its better than the normal fuel recipe

#

Coke only

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:55 PM

#

I mean the best refinery fuel option is diluted packaged. Tbf

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:55 PM

#

i know

#

buuuuut

#

#

i did the math for turbo path

#

and Oil to Fuel ALWAYS loses

#

residual is free fuel from Plastic Production

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:56 PM

#

So disabling HOR, Residual Fuel, and baseline Rubber.
I still kinda wanna disable Poly just on principle.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:57 PM

#

yea disable it, thats fine

#

only 5 recipes for oil:
Plastic, Fuel, Residual Rubber, Residual Plastic, Coke

#

im unsure on residual plastic, but eh, its terrible in regards to resin efficiency

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:58 PM

#

OMFG LOOOOL

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:58 PM

#

and with these limitations, Electrode Circuit boards are absolute trash

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:58 PM

#

With all of those constraints, and disabling Silicon and Caterium CB's.

When you ask it to max CB's this is what it does:

#

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:59 PM

#

perfect

#

now disable base CB

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 1:59 PM

#

Literally has Electrode enabled but doesn't even consider it. LMFAO

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 1:59 PM

#

thats because it KNOWS its terrible

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 1:59 PM

#

@fierce ruin here is a circuit board build comparison by the numbers

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:00 PM

#

Electrode Electrode Electrode Electrode Electrode!

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:00 PM

#

I'm keeping base for the time being until I can see total oil needed for things.
Because the one thing that needs to be kept in mind is you do have to be able to run a complete factory.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:00 PM

#

this is undebatable

#

its not like you will run max CB

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:00 PM

#

Fair.

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 2:01 PM

#

@oblique hollow Oh the alu factory is done

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:01 PM

#

upbeat tide <@!597386533691064342> Oh the alu factory is done

i saw in screenshots, i think.
Love the green tint xd

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:01 PM

#

I can hear the code lines crying....

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:03 PM

#

wait is this max?

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:03 PM

#

Silicon HSC is out.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:03 PM

#

only 354 CBs? LMAO

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:03 PM

#

Yup 😄

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:04 PM

#

perfect evil scheme

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:04 PM

#

Disabling baseline rubber wrecks a LOT of things.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:05 PM

#

i knew it was a good idea

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:06 PM

#

Quickwire Stator out.
Deciding on Motor recipes atm, once I'm done with Motor > Turbos then it's time for Computers > Supers.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:06 PM

#

crystal motor?

#

i mean its oscillators

#

freakin oscillators

#

JUST for motors

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:07 PM

#

Yes, so this is where it's the debate between resource inefficiency and production line ass-pain.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:08 PM

#

i mean using quartz for motors is pretty inefficient

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:08 PM

#

Pre-determining factor:

#

Is the ECR Connection recipe allowed?

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:09 PM

#

hmm

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:09 PM

#

This thing keeps using Compacted Coal for everything lmao

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:09 PM

#

i think electro connection rod and electric motor might be the bigger pain

#

yes.

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:10 PM

#

Well if you just do "Motor" right now:

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:10 PM

#

it has to be. uses caterium, CB (you know those are ass) and silica

#

allll that for just motors

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:10 PM

#

141.5/m from baseline
2100/m from Rigour
3104.34/m from Electric

#

BUT

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:11 PM

#

shitty silica from aluminum, shitty CBs from Oil

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:11 PM

#

Electric is drawing 1126.96/m ECR's from baseline and only 425.21/m from alt.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:11 PM

#

disable baseline now

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:11 PM

#

Because the alt has to use baseline HSCs.

#

Electric motor drops to 850.42 😄

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:12 PM

#

good

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:12 PM

#

Rigour still holding at 2100.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:12 PM

#

right, rigour is out

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:13 PM

#

Crystal Oscillators are apparently efficient AF.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:13 PM

#

so now its baseline vs electric

#

and for electric is normal HSC vs crystal

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 2:13 PM

#

Your trying to do the worst setups possible?

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:13 PM

#

yes

calm gale Jul 24, 2021, 2:13 PM

#

lol

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:13 PM

#

the anti-meta

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:14 PM

#

Just use electromagnetic connection rods

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:14 PM

#

nah, connection rod is worse

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:14 PM

#

I meant connection

#

Oscillators is only used in Comps, Motors, and RCU's.

So if we take out Rigour Motors they have only the 2 options left.

#

That alt is the bane of my existence

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:14 PM

#

fierce ruin Oscillators is only used in Comps, Motors, and RCU's. So if we take out Rigour ...

wouldnt it be fun if we eliminated quartz

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:14 PM

#

fierce ruin I meant connection

ECR alt, but with baseline HSC's and ONLY Electrode CB's allowed.

#

Your evil

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:15 PM

#

pure pain

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:15 PM

#

😈

#

That's like twice the amount of caterium

#

Doesn't the default hsc use like 212 quickwire

#

Don't get me started on the fact he made me disable BASELINE rubber....

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:15 PM

#

jace_smile

calm gale Jul 24, 2021, 2:15 PM

#

fierce ruin That's like twice the amount of caterium

not an issue if u use the pure alt

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:15 PM

#

residual rubber only from either fuel or plastic

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:15 PM

#

Pure alt disabled.

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:15 PM

#

calm gale not an issue if u use the pure alt

Definitely an issue

calm gale Jul 24, 2021, 2:16 PM

#

oh then yea maybe lol

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:16 PM

#

Yeah baseline HSC is 210/m on QW.

#

Oh no

calm gale Jul 24, 2021, 2:16 PM

#

tho having 3 pure nodes might help

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 2:16 PM

#

perfect

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:16 PM

#

Which, tbf, Fused QW still exists. (For now).

#

So Rigour Motor is out

#

What are you trying to make

#

Baseline motors at 1989.75/m and Electric at 1179.83

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:18 PM

#

fierce ruin What are you trying to make

The LEAST efficient factory.

#

To produce what

#

Everything?

calm gale Jul 24, 2021, 2:18 PM

#

sounds like a me type thing

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:19 PM

#

Just a challenge mode called "Efficiency LAST" is the idea @fierce ruin
So once I have all the rules lined out what you make with it is up to you really.

#

I'd really like to see more challenges in the community

#

My highest upvoted thing on reddit isn't even a post, it's a COMMENT I made about the idea for a challenge where you cannot deconstruct anything other than wires after you recycle your drop pod.

#

upgrades to things like belts, poles, miners, etc is fine.
But you cannot deconstruct anything aside from the power lines.

#

Oh no

calm gale Jul 24, 2021, 2:21 PM

#

fierce ruin *upgrades* to things like belts, poles, miners, etc is fine. But you cannot deco...

totally a me thing hehe

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:21 PM

#

Welp.. Turbo Pressure Motor is getting disabled. lol

#

It's such a good recipe

#

As when I bumped up a step it was the ONLY recipe used for max turbo output.

#

Wow

#

And now Turbo Electric is out...

#

Yeah the only somewhat annoying part is the packaged nitrogen

#

Well again it was the ONLY recipe used.

#

This is why default CB's got disabled.

Because when it was down to baseline and electrode the system didn't even consider electrode.

#

What about if you use radio connection unit

#

o.o, fair, should probably check that first.

#

nvm, have to dial it back before that too.

#

Need to check HMF's.

#

What's the least efficient way to make fuel

#

Baseline.

#

Wait no.

#

Flexible hmf🤢

#

Yeah baseline fuel was the one we left enabled.

#

Residual got turned off. So did diluted and packaged diluted

#

The default just turns oil into fuel right

#

Yes and gives you poly

#

Which in this challenge is the only way to make rubber. 😄

#

So Heavy Encased Frame is out.

#

This sounds so painful

#

😄

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:34 PM

#

frosty owl Osxillators+circuit boards. A must <:jacelul:489777945909526528>

It's computer time!

#

This is just... sad.

#

So I may have to leave Crystal Computers enabled.

calm gale Jul 24, 2021, 2:40 PM

#

lol

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:40 PM

#

Wait no, I can disable them.

#

Cuz RCU "System" alt doesn't use computers.

calm gale Jul 24, 2021, 2:41 PM

#

btw this gave me a legit bad idea and i have to test it lol

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:47 PM

#

I think I'm done with all production items.
So now it's just consumables.

#

Crystal Beacons are out.

#

I do not know enough about nuclear so someone will have to help with that.

#

@oblique hollow I'm assuming baseline turbofuel recipe only?

#

@bleak coral when you catch up - Fine Powder vs. Baseline Powder?

Fine seems more annoying (which is the point) but is that too much sulfur considering other restrictions?

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 2:57 PM

#

So just saw the base idea not the rest of the posts, but if the idea is to be the most inconvenient and inefficient you want baseline powder. Fine powder is actually a straight upgrade, cause it not only is more resource efficient but you actually end up building less machines and you can just manifold the two together with a gap to switch in the compacted in instead of the regular coal

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 2:58 PM

#

Cool.

#

So now I just have to figure out nuclear...

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:00 PM

#

you can start with fertile uranium: get less power out per uranium compared to just getting more uranium rods and more waste and now you have to run another raw resource into your plutonium processing

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:02 PM

#

Oh that's all the way up at plutonium but I will turn baseline non-fissile off if that's the recommendation.

#

WOOOOOW

#

Disabled alt for uranium cell and uranium rod.

Defaults only with all other restrictions the MAX Uranium Fuel Rod output is 1.2/m

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:06 PM

#

why_so_snutt

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:06 PM

#

Oh this will make you happy.

#

#

So.. project completed then. Now to type it all up.

#

Although does anyone else find it odd that "Nuclear Pasta" doesn't require any nuclear components?

#

Oh, @bleak coral which Empty Canister is the worst?

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:14 PM

#

I'm pretty sure it's base, but also maybe steel? try either of those, coated iron is cheap as shit cause it's just iron + copper

#

I'm leaning towards steal cause it's 40ppm vs 60ppm of the other

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

Steel could be worse in this setup given you're restricted to the base and compacted recipes:)

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

ouch

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

Efficiency LAST

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

oh and I saw earlier you said you disabled fine concrete

#

force fine concrete, and no cheap silica

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:16 PM

#

Ok that's evil and I love it.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:16 PM

#

meta idea is you want to eventually force alumina solution to be used to make silica cause you run out 😈

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:16 PM

#

I'm thinking we force electric motor too.

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:17 PM

#

bleak coral meta idea is you want to eventually force alumina solution to be used to make si...

This already happened in a couple "max" paths while making it. lol

#

Oh -- it was never decided on if Fused QW should be disabled.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:18 PM

#

oh definitely, fused QW is fantastic, so it should go haha

#

although.... how much copper do you need to keep up with other stuff?

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:18 PM

#

Baseline Wire is gone though, for reference.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:18 PM

#

like if copper is already strained

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:19 PM

#

Eh.

#

Enjoy forced Heavy Flex Frames 🙂

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:19 PM

#

tired_jace

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:19 PM

#

With baseline rubber and recycled rubber both disabled 😄

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:19 PM

#

actually wait, I think baseline is worst

#

flex is bad cause encased exists

#

try both

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:20 PM

#

Encased disabled.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:20 PM

#

oh for sure

#

by both I meant give baseline and flex a try, see what comes out worse

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:21 PM

#

This is why I disabled base.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:21 PM

#

oh you get way more with it? interesting, guess it's all that fuckery you did with oil haha

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:22 PM

#

Indeed.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:22 PM

#

flex probably only works cause of recycled nonsense

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:22 PM

#

Wondering if I should disabled residual plastic.

Which would force normal plastic and residual rubber only.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:23 PM

#

I don't know, I got lost in the sauce in all that oil stuff, cause my gut feelings is residuals only so they have to be made all from fuel, but you do need to get HOR from somewhere

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:23 PM

#

Exactly.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:24 PM

#

and plastic is the worst source of HOR

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:24 PM

#

Which is why it's the only source 🙂

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:24 PM

#

oh I guess it's tied with polymer resin for that, but also that would make the residual recipes better by proxy

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

Ok so the only remaining recipes with multiple options are:

#

Cable: Coated, Quickwire
Plastic: Base, ~~Residual~~
Steel: Base, Compacted
Wire: Fused, Iron

#

Steel I'm leaving both options, but should Cable and/or Wire be shaved down to 1?

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

Quickwire cable
Compacted steel
Fused wire

My votes

#

Iron wire is too good

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

Coated sucks and requires the extremely limited HOR that you have which is why I kept it.

Dropping Iron Wire.

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 3:30 PM

#

Here is a kicker

You cannot use coal nodes at all

You MUST only use Biocoal 😉

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:30 PM

#

Oof.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:30 PM

#

I don't think you can drop base steel, both is probably good, compacted wastes sulfur, but base waste power, iron, and coal

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:31 PM

#

Yeah so now just Steel and Cable have alts and I think Cable is fine with the 2 options as both are extremely limited in this run anyway.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:31 PM

#

also, yeah, doing oil so badly means that all the oil alts suddenly suck a lot more, a lot of them are only saved by the efficient oil stuff

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:32 PM

#

Did you see the ECR alt?

#

Baseline HSC's with forced Electrode CB's 😄

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:33 PM

#

though it's probably not a bad idea to keep quickwire cable, just to waste caterium where you can

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:33 PM

#

Surprisingly, this run only uses screws in a couple spots.

#

Bolted Plates being the main one.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:33 PM

#

electrode circruit boards uwot_jace

#

oil eater

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:33 PM

#

Is the ONLY kind you can make 🙂

#

With your nice 10 HOR/m from Plastic 😄

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:34 PM

#

jesus

#

might have to keep quickwire cable, or you'll run out jacelul

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:34 PM

#

Yeah HOR alt disabled automatically because you all abuse it 😛

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:34 PM

#

yeah that's an obvious first candidate

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

I'm fine with Cable and Steel being the only 2 with multiple options.

#

And the fact you literally cannot make plutonium due to restrictions. LMFAO

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:38 PM

#

really? damn

#

what's keeping it from happening?

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:39 PM

#

Idk. But your restriction on non-fissile plus forcing baseline for uranium cells and rods in addition to all others had the "system could not find a solution" message.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

did you manually add the waste? the calculator doesn't figure out the waste by itself

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

oof

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

also it might already be using all the uranium for uranium rods, you have to leave some

#

plutonium is more manual

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

fierce ruin <@!597386533691064342> I'm assuming baseline turbofuel recipe only?

hard to say, Heavy Turbo is coal and sulfur inefficient but has better oil efficiency

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

Well I'm assuming just "disable Plutonium Rod Alt" then?

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

oblique hollow hard to say, Heavy Turbo is coal and sulfur inefficient but has better oil effic...

So mainly just disable the Blend version?

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

blend must die

#

wait.... we killed residual fuel, right?

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

Yes

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

In that case, normal turb is good

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

Base fuel only.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

base fuel is worst fuel

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

So Turbo Heavy Fuel only?

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

No, Normal Turbo

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

ok

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 3:50 PM

#

#

heavy turbo has only like 20 % increase in coal and sulfur

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:50 PM

#

I disabled base nobelisks because forcing people to make oscillators for seismic was too good to pass up.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 3:50 PM

#

while normal fuel has a 100% increase in oil usage

#

compared to heavy

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

Did you see Lund's adjustment to Concrete?

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

no i didnt

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

Force Fine alt but disable Cheap Silica

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

oooooh thats good

#

forces you to make aluminum

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

I mean you can make normal silica from qtz

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

do players start with a base? or is it just directly from 0

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

fierce ruin I mean you can make normal silica from qtz

... disable?

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

up to you.
If you start from 0 it's a matter of "when you acquire the alt you have to switch"

#

Nah, can't force a source to be byproduct like that.
Outside of HOR because the HOR recipe IS an alt so that is totally acceptable to disable.

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And the final part:

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All Project Assembly parts should be done at baseline, yes?

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 4:07 PM

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No, complicate them. If alt exists use it!

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 4:08 PM

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Are the alts worse though?

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 4:08 PM

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More pointless usually cuz you normally dont make alot of project assembly stuff

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 4:08 PM

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Flexible Framework is worse with how we did rubber.

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 4:08 PM

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good

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plastic smart plating is also good choice

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 4:09 PM

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We didn't really make plastic horrible though?

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 4:09 PM

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make it impossible to make the firts elevator deliver xd

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 4:09 PM

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LMFAO AUTO WIRE ALT NEEDS HSCs 😂

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 4:09 PM

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fierce ruin We didn't really make plastic horrible though?

directly from oil, but resin also gets turned to plastic

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so plastic is much better than rubber

jagged grail Jul 24, 2021, 4:09 PM

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force bolted plates and bolted frames

oblique hollow Jul 24, 2021, 4:10 PM

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yes, screw alts only, unless they need worse components

upbeat tide Jul 24, 2021, 4:10 PM

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Bolted plates and frams can actually be efficient

jagged grail Jul 24, 2021, 4:10 PM

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also no cast screws

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 4:10 PM

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oblique hollow directly from oil, but resin also gets turned to plastic

I ended up disabling residual plastic.
So you have to make baseline plastic and you have to make residual rubber.

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Can do base fuel to make both.

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cant**

jagged grail Jul 24, 2021, 4:11 PM

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Are you starting from tier1? or can you do rubber concrete

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 4:11 PM

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Rubber Concrete disabled.

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If you start from HUB 0 with this the guideline is you have to switch once you unlock the appropriate alt.

bleak coral Jul 24, 2021, 4:13 PM

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jagged grail Are you starting from tier1? or can you do rubber concrete

fine concrete is worse, especially with no cheap silica

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 4:13 PM

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Post is up: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/oqt0mx/challenge_mode_efficiencylast/

r/SatisfactoryGame - Challenge Mode - #EfficiencyLAST

0 votes and 0 comments so far on Reddit

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Now I eat lunch. 😄

muted crypt Jul 24, 2021, 5:50 PM

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I make my once a quarter appearance to the server to say hello and "haha math go brrr"

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👋 miss you guys, been too busy with life to play, hope you're all having fun tho!

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 7:34 PM

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muted crypt I make my once a quarter appearance to the server to say hello and "haha math go...

Yo, long time no banter 👋 hope life's treating you well ^^
Would you like a few highlights of the channel? jacelul

muted crypt Jul 24, 2021, 7:37 PM

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sure! Drop them in my DMs tho if you want

gloomy palm Jul 24, 2021, 7:41 PM

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is it a bad sign when you send messages and everyone disappears

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 7:41 PM

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IRL it's a sign of bad breath odor

gloomy palm Jul 24, 2021, 7:41 PM

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hmm maybe my messages smelt bad

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speaking of smelt!

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 7:42 PM

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~~Someone must've smelt the bs~~

gloomy palm Jul 24, 2021, 7:42 PM

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xD

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i recently found out that the greek words for foundry and smelter are identical

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the italian translator a few months ago discovered this in italian also

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essentially, a smelter is an Ore Smelter, and a foundry is an Alloy Smelter

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which is how i've ultimately translated them into greek

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 7:44 PM

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gloomy palm the italian translator a few months ago discovered this in italian also

... I think you're talking about me thinking_helmet
But no, didn't know the root of the ambiguity was so deep, nice Funfact ^^

gloomy palm Jul 24, 2021, 7:44 PM

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are you the italian translator??

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 7:44 PM

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The most active in this Discord server, in the past few months

gloomy palm Jul 24, 2021, 7:44 PM

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ZuppaDiCulo

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it's funny because a lot of the italian translation issues are the same as the greek translation issues

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so i'm seeing how the italian solved it to see how to solve it in greek

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 7:45 PM

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It makes a lot of sense though :hehe:
||getting #off-topic-general ||

gloomy palm Jul 24, 2021, 7:46 PM

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in italian, foundry was renamed to "forger" but there's unfortunately no ambiguous type of forger in greek, it's either a copper forger, iron forger, steel forger which might be confusing in game

gloomy palm Jul 24, 2021, 7:46 PM

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frosty owl It makes a lot of sense though :hehe: ||getting <#556448894993563659> ||

oh oop

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 7:49 PM

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Could you say "metal forger"? Or is "copper forger" a single word or something?

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 7:50 PM

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fierce ruin Could you say "metal forger"? Or is "copper forger" a single word or something?

#off-topic-general

versed violet Jul 24, 2021, 8:30 PM

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Stupid question:
Do Oremadillos/spitters/firebugs take damage from radiation?

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 8:34 PM

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Not to my knowledge but they do all take damage from each other. So if you LoS spitters they can kill other things.
And I've actually gotten a blue spitter to kill itself with it's first ability because it dropped the orb and then sprinted in front of it when I hid behind a wall.

versed violet Jul 24, 2021, 8:35 PM

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I've seen spitters friendly fire KO each other once

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 8:36 PM

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I am 99% sure all creatures are immune to both radiation and poison though.

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Given some of the areas they guard.

versed violet Jul 24, 2021, 8:36 PM

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Thats sad

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 8:37 PM

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Would be too simple to kill them if they weren't tbh. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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And spooders HAVE to be immune to poison since they... you know... make it.

versed violet Jul 24, 2021, 8:37 PM

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I'm asking, because I had an idea of donning hazmat suit, grabbing two stacks of filters, pile of concrete and full inv of nuclear fuel rods, then make a walk of nuclear death across the map 😈

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 8:39 PM

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Waste of filters, but I like the idea 😏

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Then you see a Doggo, it sees you and just up and dies... jace_happy

versed violet Jul 24, 2021, 8:40 PM

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Nope, doggos are immune to radiation. They eat uranium and vomit nuclear waste

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 8:40 PM

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frosty owl Then you see a Doggo, it sees you and just up and dies... <:jace_happy:588389164...

I still want a flying crab pet.

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 8:41 PM

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versed violet Nope, doggos are immune to radiation. They eat uranium and vomit nuclear waste

I got on that train of thought too, but spiders do so too...
Then I imagined spiders turning into toxic ones while you walk between them thinking they'll die from radiation... jace_scared

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 8:42 PM

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fierce ruin I still want a flying crab pet.

You can already play catch with them
I swear, they will try to bring it back to you 😉
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/553550313533997057/817044112761946142/Screenshot20210304-14401200000.png

fierce ruin Jul 24, 2021, 8:42 PM

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LMAO

versed violet Jul 24, 2021, 8:42 PM

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I prefer to throw snowballs at them

frosty owl Jul 24, 2021, 8:43 PM

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Oh, I passed 100km of belts on the nuclear save 🥳

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More than any of my entire bases jacelul

jagged grail Jul 24, 2021, 9:21 PM

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Yucca mountain storage should be able to last for half an irl year, and thats a lowball estimate on storage

pseudo lava Jul 25, 2021, 12:21 AM

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How do you calculate the number of pillars you would want from one end of a square to the other, so that each pillar is equally apart?

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versed violet Jul 25, 2021, 12:23 AM

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Assuming you mean foundations square, the distribution is (square length -1) / (number of pillars - 1)

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Or in plain words, treat square as 1 foundation shorter (ignore last pillar) and count how many pillars can you fit onto remaining space.

pseudo lava Jul 25, 2021, 12:24 AM

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Thanks

versed violet Jul 25, 2021, 12:25 AM

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Found a tool to find all integer divisors of numbers -> https://onlinemathtools.com/find-all-divisors
Just put your square lenth - 1 into it, and you 'l see

Find All Divisors of a Number - Online Math Tools

Simple, free and easy to use online tool that finds divisors. No ads, popups or nonsense, just an integer divisors calculator. Enter a number – get its divisors.

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 1:12 AM

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@fierce ruin I just realized we forgot an import rule for the anti-meta challenge: no manifolds for solids (balancers don't technically exist for liquids)

fierce ruin Jul 25, 2021, 1:13 AM

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Eh, the people seemed to hate the idea as it stands currently. But I'll note it for future reference 🙂

oblique hollow Jul 25, 2021, 1:16 AM

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bleak coral <@456226577798135808> I just realized we forgot an import rule for the anti-meta...

Make Junctions with valves yes
Every. Single. Time

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 1:17 AM

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so "balanced" liquids too jace_happy

fierce ruin Jul 25, 2021, 1:18 AM

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99% only mk1 pipes.
So if something comes out at over 300 you can attach a mk2, but you then have to immediately junction it into 2 mk1s.
Valves ofc.

oblique hollow Jul 25, 2021, 1:18 AM

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yes snuttsmile

full rivet Jul 25, 2021, 1:18 AM

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Lol

fierce ruin Jul 25, 2021, 1:19 AM

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Lund you still owe me the screenshot of your 2mill screws per minute factory 😏

full rivet Jul 25, 2021, 1:20 AM

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Lol I want see a 16mil watts power Factory

fierce ruin Jul 25, 2021, 1:20 AM

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Is that even possible?

full rivet Jul 25, 2021, 1:23 AM

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Idk

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 1:28 AM

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technically yes, there's no limit to biomass burners with enough patience 😏

fierce ruin Jul 25, 2021, 1:31 AM

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I mean that IS what your screw factory has to run on.

fringe pawn Jul 25, 2021, 1:47 AM

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Looking at that screw factory using each steel alt is hilarious.

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I like the looks of coke steel more generally at the border North forest and rocky desert. Lots of oil and iron, but not as much coal. I think I'm going to make a test factory to see how it plays.

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 2:00 AM

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I just find it hilarious it actually runs out of steel before running out of iron

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like there's a stupid amount of iron on the map

fringe pawn Jul 25, 2021, 2:01 AM

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And then iron alloy ingot 😭

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The building count on iron alloy generally makes pure iron just as easy.

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Pure copper though... So many refineries.

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 2:03 AM

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yeah but if you actually need to save on iron and don't give a fuck about copper, alloy technically is better

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although if the max screws plan tells us anything, you never need to save on iron

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especially at the expense of another resource

fringe pawn Jul 25, 2021, 2:04 AM

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Omnomnom iron wire

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 2:04 AM

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exactly

fringe pawn Jul 25, 2021, 2:05 AM

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Which leads to the absurd building count of resource efficient ADS factories

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 2:05 AM

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isn't that what your (neglected) doggo farm is for 😛

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that is if animal services hasn't taken them away for neglect

fringe pawn Jul 25, 2021, 2:06 AM

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I have 3 poor outlying pups that I haven't bothered to bring home.

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They're just penned in random factories

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 2:06 AM

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by themselves or together?

fringe pawn Jul 25, 2021, 2:07 AM

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Alone in different factories in the rocky desert. I didn't want to just leave them out there, and I have the naive idea I would eventually gather them with the others.

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I guess I could just use SCIM

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 2:09 AM

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can't leave 'em out there all alone, no one to play with 😛

fringe pawn Jul 25, 2021, 2:11 AM

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On that note, gathering shards for my 20\20\5\5 factory was tedious enough. And I'm using caterium wire everywhere except beacons.

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I don't know that my whole system has enough shards to convert to a 100 ADS factory using iron wire and default cable. Let alone the rest of the system. And then other SE parts if you want to do 100\100\25\25

frosty owl Jul 25, 2021, 12:44 PM

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fringe pawn I guess I could just use SCIM

You could take the chance to try the "Doggos on vehicle" trick, if you haven't already

vital forge Jul 25, 2021, 2:29 PM

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hey, how do you take more feed from an ore spot when it produces more than your mk.5 speed?

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 2:31 PM

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mods

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regular game can't

vital forge Jul 25, 2021, 2:33 PM

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that sucks

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I wonder if there is going to be a mk 6 at some point

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 2:36 PM

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They're having problems getting the belts to go faster, mk5 already has problems going full speed especially if your FPS is low

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but they'll either fix that, or rebalance around lower numbers

vital forge Jul 25, 2021, 2:37 PM

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Hmm... wouldn't an easy fix for that be just use tubes like with the fluids? IT should tax the fps less\

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Then again, I am talking with no experience at all

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maybe a double feeder?

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I'm gonna dig and see if I can find some mods to help out with this

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 2:45 PM

#

@vital forge devs talking about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUed4aFcYLs

YouTube

Q&A Clips

Q&A: Mk.6 Belts?

Clips for the April 6th, 2021 Livestream originally streamed on https://www.twitch.tv/coffeestainstudiosdevs

▶ Play video

vital forge Jul 25, 2021, 2:45 PM

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thanks!

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 2:46 PM

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personally I'm good if they basically made mk5/mk6 covered/pipes, cause mk5 already goes so fast the items on it are a blur

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and we have earlier belts if you need to manually take items off the belt

strong whale Jul 25, 2021, 2:48 PM

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maybe the default is placing the belt with a cover but with the option to dismantle only the cover 🤔 - would get painful with a lot of belts though - it could be a build option instead though right? So you press R to decide if you want a cover or no

vital forge Jul 25, 2021, 2:49 PM

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That would be cool, having an option for cover, would help with computers that can't handle that much

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 2:50 PM

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If it's done, I doubt it'll be an option

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cause it's a technical issue, not just aesthetic

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that's more like a mod-type thing to do: be like "you can turn this off, but you'll have issues"

fierce ruin Jul 25, 2021, 6:27 PM

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This is an extremely tough call....

upbeat tide Jul 25, 2021, 6:28 PM

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Ooh for sure... biocoal or charcoal....😉

river venture Jul 25, 2021, 6:28 PM

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fierce ruin This is an extremely tough call....

Yeah, hard to decise. Leaning for 2

jagged grail Jul 25, 2021, 7:57 PM

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Lul

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Got a question, for fluids via trains. I did the math and it says I need like 18 train cars, am I able to instead just like make a very large fluid buffer at both stations and get away with using like 4 different trains with 4 cars each?

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Why so many cars? I need water for my plutonium reactors and the trip from the geyser to the reactors is like 15 minute round trip or so

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(Even though my reactors are literally built over an ocean but let's not get into that)

tardy moth Jul 25, 2021, 8:04 PM

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If your reactors are built on the ocean, I think you really should just be using the water there

jagged grail Jul 25, 2021, 8:04 PM

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#savethepowerslugs

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Before you say, don't overclock them. Just no

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Thats 40 reactors

tardy moth Jul 25, 2021, 8:05 PM

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But if you really want to use the trains, you can look at it like belts.
If you're producing 500/m, but only use a 480/m belt, no storage bins are gonna fix it, as you're always producing more than you can move

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 8:06 PM

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how is trains + resource wells easier though? resource wells aren't even good sources of water

tardy moth Jul 25, 2021, 8:06 PM

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excactly

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But to each their own

#

Do what you want

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 8:07 PM

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also multiple trains issue if you're using the same station is that they wait on each other if they get synced up, and you can't guarantee they won't cause of small errors

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if you want multiple trains, it should be multiple stations

jagged grail Jul 25, 2021, 8:07 PM

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Because there's like 3 or 4 wells on the map that have like 7 pure nodes on them and I only need 9 sluggies to get 300/m compared to needing 21 sluggies

tardy moth Jul 25, 2021, 8:07 PM

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21 one sluggies really aren't that many tho

jagged grail Jul 25, 2021, 8:08 PM

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Yeah but

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#savetheslugs

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 8:08 PM

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for what?

jagged grail Jul 25, 2021, 8:08 PM

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For stuff

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 8:08 PM

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this is what you save them for

jagged grail Jul 25, 2021, 8:08 PM

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And things

bleak coral Jul 25, 2021, 8:08 PM

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"I don't want to build too many extractors" <- that's the problem slugs solve lol

jagged grail Jul 25, 2021, 8:09 PM

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Its still 40 extractors with slugs, man

tardy moth Jul 25, 2021, 8:09 PM

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It'll only be 120 shards

jagged grail Jul 25, 2021, 8:09 PM

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That's like 110 more than I have on my person atm my dude

tardy moth Jul 25, 2021, 8:10 PM

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Go on a little journey

#

It'll be fun