#math-and-meta

1 messages Β· Page 541 of 1

oblique hollow
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still pretty meh

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i just wanna mix green juice with additives to get turbo

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not oil + burned plant stuff

wind spade
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and portable miner alt is pretty good imo

oblique hollow
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if only miners would stack

bleak coral
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^

wind spade
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🀷

oblique hollow
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whats it good for tho?

wind spade
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automation

oblique hollow
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why.

wind spade
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why not

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I don't want to handcraft miners

bleak coral
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so you don't have to hand make them, so for convenience, which gets undone cause they take up your entire inventory if you carry a decent amount lol

bleak coral
oblique hollow
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a bandaid for a problem that basically turned into a crutch again

terse otter
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The basic miner recipe can't be put into automation, for those confused

cedar mica
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Biocoal has its use. Like turning more of what the doggos find, into useful stuff, like Nobelisk

fringe pawn
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At least the beacon alt produces 20 per craft. The cost increase on auto miner is also insane.

wind spade
oblique hollow
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if anything that alt should produce 5 miners or something

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buuuuut they dont stack yet

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sooooo no thanks

terse otter
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You only need like 500 miners ever, so it's not really important

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Really, I just want a leaves->nuclear waste recipe.

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I want to funnel the natural environment directly into my nuclear wasteland

cedar mica
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There is a mod for that

bleak coral
terse otter
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I'll probably never play the game modless again once i've beaten it at least once. Too many things take forever to do the first time.

fringe pawn
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I want to finish my first run as vanilla, but as someone who likes walls and roofs way too much for their own good, I definitely need some sort of 'big walls and floors' QoL mod.

bleak coral
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Smart! is like vanilla+, if you don't use the splitter/merger automatic connections part

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also doesn't add anything to the save file, so it can be added/removed cleanly

frosty owl
frosty pawn
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"properly" is subjective lol. It's possible to weld belt segments together to make much longer single-segment belts, but these can be so long that visually it just doesn't work - the belt becomes invisible when we are so far from one end of it that we are out of the range where buildings are allowed to be visible - however the items still get transported and since it's a single segment there is no timing issue or rounding error. if the devs are going to fix this, they need to work on the bit of code that transfers items from one belt section to the next. I suppose a graph theory approach to precalculate the route when segments are added could work because we would combine all the points along the route and the entire route behaves as if it was one section. We know that moving items from point A to point B is fine, but the transfer of items (e.g. on a 2 section belt) from point A to B1 to B2 to C is where we get the hiccups. I assume there is a value that ranges from 0 to 1 which defines how far along the belt an item has moved but when the item moves very fast it's a relatively large fraction of 0 to 1 that is added per tick and we get rounding errors where, for example, we add something like 11% per tick then at 9 ticks we have moved 99% along the belt and then on the next tick we are at 110% so the item is kind of stuck for 10% of the time that it should have been moving. Longer belts mean we move at a rate which is a smaller fraction of the length of the belt so we don't get problems.

frosty owl
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That doesn't sound completely right...
"Longer belts mean we move (items) at a rate which is a smaller fraction of the lenght of the belt so we don't get problems"
This would in turn mean that very short mk5 belt segments should bug out pretty much always, right?
(Which they don't)

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Eg: 2m belt segment, where items move through pretty much in 1/2 ticks

frosty pawn
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it depends on what fraction of the length of the sections is left over on the last tick. if the items move at a rate that it's at exactly 100% by the time it reaches the end of the segment, there will be no "delay" when it gets shifted onto the next segment so everything is perfect

fierce ruin
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from my recent tests, the "delay" problem on full speed belts seem to be only from belt/belt junction: i made a belt of 60 belt segment, each connected from a merger/spitter to another (and no belt/belt connexion) and i didn't see any backup yet. That could be an easy way to prevent the problem, if it's confirmed after some cross check

frosty pawn
cedar mica
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Didnt one of the recent videos, says something about conveyor changes?

terse otter
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So you are saying that the bug is relative to the remainder of the distance traveled towards the end of a segment in a frame? I.E. if you have the segment's length be a multiple of some specific, unknown, number, it'll work at 100% effecency?

frosty pawn
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and also networking improvements for belts

frosty owl
frosty pawn
terse otter
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I wonder if there is a number of marks of distance on the foundation grid that could be used here. Like having every segment be a multiple of 4 steps on a foundation.

frosty pawn
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items still need to get off the belt section and onto whatever is connected to the end of it

frosty owl
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That's what I thought, but just slapping them on an existing conveyor still leaves the junctions between the segments, so it's not enough to fix

frosty pawn
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the bug is literally at the point where items can't get off the belt in time between ticks

terse otter
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The most useful workaround info to find in this case is probably some way to consistently get the ore from a miner to a splitter without loss.

frosty owl
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As long as it's a single belt segment, it's fine πŸ‘

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Either a splitter or a ISC, both work

frosty pawn
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let's say for example you have 2 belt sections. when an item reaches the end of section A, it might have a progress value of something over 1, lets say 1.01, then it gets added to the next section and the progress begins at 0, when in reality it should have started at 0.01

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these miscalculations add up

terse otter
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Because the splitter has a buffer, so it's going to handle the mass input properly, while a belt segment's "buffer" isn't big enough?

frosty pawn
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devs need to make the sections communicate with eachother to let items on section B start at a value above 0 when it ends at a value above 1 on section A

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they are already transferring items, they just need to pass along an extra number with that data

terse otter
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In factorio, I think I recall they solved this by using a repeatable animation that was seamless between segments, and just giving each segment an inventory for the whole length

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Rather then calculating ore positions individually?

sand garnet
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can you place a splitter on top of an existing belt in factorio?

frosty owl
terse otter
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Splitters were their own tile piece

sand garnet
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right, here you can put them on a belt and cut the belt in half etc

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which means positions of items matter

terse otter
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Which I understand is how satisfactory works, after placement

frosty pawn
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this could potentially cause graphical glitches, but based on what i saw in the latest video about belts where Ben showed the texture map for item positions, i think it should be fine since he is using values from minimum to maximum in the texture but it doesnt have to be 0 to 255, it can be 0 to 1 where overloading the numbers up to like 1-point-whatever (like emissive colours) would make the items appear to contue moving off the end of the belt just before they begin to appear slightly shifted along the start point of the next belt section

frosty owl
frosty pawn
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yes, so all the items are at the same point on the start of the belt but then the visual representation is offset by a number which happens to be it's progress value from joining the belt to reaching the end

frosty owl
oblique hollow
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beltlength = x meter
current position on belt for items goes from 0 to 1
so if an item is at position 0.25
the game renders it at 0.25 * X Meters from the beginning of the belt

frosty pawn
terse otter
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I suppose what I'm trying to say is if you want a solid performance rate, maybe syncing item positions to a global cycle could avoid technical issues?

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For instance, on any given frame, an item will be x far down the belt?

frosty pawn
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even with splitters and mergers

terse otter
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That could work too, as long as people don't try to overcomplicate the belt system

oblique hollow
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belt loop go brrrr

frosty pawn
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however, graph theory is difficult

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it would have to be calculated each time any part of the belt network is modified

oblique hollow
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yeah. way to kill the game if you have a GIANT belt network

frosty pawn
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passing the progress remainder to the next section of belt is much easier

frosty owl
oblique hollow
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graph theory would break as soon as someone builds another LGIO Weave or Beltnado

frosty pawn
terse otter
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I think keeping the calculations smaller scale, and saying "at this given frame, this belt segment transition is in a specific state", would be best.

frosty pawn
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since we cant place items on the belt manually, it would be fine

terse otter
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Syncing the placement of items onto the belt, so that it always is in the expected state on that frame

oblique hollow
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problem with adding multiple belts to one is also: we still have position going from 0 to 1

frosty owl
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Well, I guess it's time to summon Snutt to tell him hehe

oblique hollow
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so now we need extra decimals for precision

frosty pawn
glacial hemlock
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There's more hard drives than recipes so you probably shouldn't be worrying about this, since you will get them all eventually. Maybe just unlock priority.

frosty owl
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Did they say they were going to address these precision issues anyway? I'm kinda lost in that regard

frosty pawn
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i think they are still testing ideas

frosty owl
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As long as they don't forget about it~

fringe pawn
frosty owl
oblique hollow
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laughs in pipes

frosty owl
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Laugh in 2h refun time

frosty pawn
terse otter
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I think I'm just going to build everything I make while pretending I don't know about these issues. I wont be able to tell the difference anyways

glacial hemlock
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Rounding error has been in this game for a long time

frosty pawn
frosty owl
glacial hemlock
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Like a row of buildings start to get misaligned after certain number

frosty owl
frosty pawn
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i mean at the end of the day, when a machine shuts down because it's full and then it starts up again, the belt won't run dry because the machine has a buffer. if i was making 3 nuclear pasta per min, i will still be making 3 nuclear pasta per min regardless of whether this bug is fixed or not

frosty owl
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If your miner can't output the expected 780 copper/min, the PA might run dry of copper and you get 2.99 pasta
Totally unacceptable disappointed_snutt

frosty pawn
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nope, everything will be fine, trust me πŸ˜‰

frosty owl
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How is it fine if they don't get enough materials? thinking_helmet

frosty pawn
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by the time your miner fills up, everything else in the production chain will have a buffer

frosty owl
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Big doubt
I don't manifold stuff, so that's rarely a thing in my factories

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Most of my machines have the minimum possible amount of items in their inventory

frosty pawn
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your 780 ore gets turned into more than 780 ingots, the effect of machines getting filled up at their output buffers is increased exponentially. everything after the miner will fill up before the miner does

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if you have 100 ore stuck in a miner, there is more than 100 ingots in the combined buffers of your foundries/refineries

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dont forget the belts in your factory also count as buffers

frosty owl
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Unless you manifold or deal with inefficiencies along the production line, that's not a thing
Moreover, if your system runs at 100% it's eventually gonna have at least 1 machine run dry

frosty pawn
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your system can only run at 100% if literally every belt is saturated at exactly 100% of its rated throughput. this is not possible given the belt speeds we have and the fact that you need to use splitters and mergers

frosty owl
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Why would you need to saturate belts to have things run at 100% o.O

frosty pawn
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because if a machine outputs 30/min onto a mk1 belt, the output buffer will not fill

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you would have excess capacity on that belt

frosty owl
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Eg: smelt 780 iron ore (smelt for ease of exampling). You feed the smelters 1:1 to plates constructors. If you get less then 780 ore/min, some smelters will starve ~> you'll get less plates

frosty owl
oblique hollow
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belt efficiency is absolutely useless as belts are magical entities that run on the power of determination

frosty pawn
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by the time ore production is reduced to 779/min, those smelters will have ore in their input buffers so they will not be starving. over time the buffer will very slowly be eaten up. however, splitter outputs take turns to output items on each of the connected output belts, so only one machine will starve at any time and it will be for 1/780th of a minute

oblique hollow
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i have bauxite refineries being fed 780 bauxite / min

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they all are at 100% but the miners backs up anyway

frosty pawn
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if you look at your entire production line as a whole from ore to endgame item (e.g. nuclear pasta) what really is 1/780th of 0.5/min?

oblique hollow
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guess that gets rounded out of existance

frosty pawn
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when this bug finally gets fixed, everyone will be rejoice. there will be dancing in the streets. a public holiday will be declared all over the world. coffee stain will get the nobel prize for intellectual triumph. and then nobody will notice any difference.

oblique hollow
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the prize gets reserved for when the pipes get fixed

frosty owl
# frosty pawn by the time ore production is reduced to 779/min, those smelters will have ore i...
  1. You're assuming machies have items piled up in inventory by the time the input drops (which should be immediate, ending up in the loss of at least one item/min as soon as you turn the miner on). If you balance your machines, full machine inventory isn't a thing
  2. Wether the loss will be split among machines or not, depends on how you set up your machines. It has been show clearly that if you use a manifold (most common approach), the last 2 machines will take the full brunt of the losses, so they'll eventually starve EVEN if they had full inventory at first
  3. The losses can be quite hefty. Eg: if you don't feed enough caterium ingots to quickwire assemblers, you lose 6 quickwire/min for each cat ingot lost. I don't call that "irrelevant"
  4. A loss is a loss, and Fiscit does not waste evildoggo
abstract copper
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Define "eventually" lol

frosty owl
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Between 1000 and 13 minutes (more or less)
1000 for a loss of 0.5 min (best case scenario) and a stack size of 500, 13 min for a loss of 8/min (worst case scenario) and a stack size of 50

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A reasonable example (imo) would be with a loss of 4/min and a stack size of 100: if machine starts full, it would take 50 min to empty its storage (assuming the last 2 machines take the brunt of the loss)

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I'm doing math by head, so mistakes are likely to have been made hehe

terse otter
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The simplest way to look at it is to ignore buffering I think. If you lose 5% of your throughput to the smelters, then they in turn produce 5% less in the long haul. If your belts were tuned for 10% thoughput, then the 5% extra space will make room to avoid further loss, and the 5% loss will be maintained through the rest of the system.

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The easiest way to handle the loss is to build as if it doesn't exist, belt-wise

oblique hollow
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my miner runs fine xd

unknown.png
frosty pawn
terse otter
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Something like building a system for 100% throughput, then deleting automated crafting segments until everything is actually 100%?

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Or just leaving it at 95% efficency because it's not enough to care about

frosty pawn
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if you build an entire factory but dont connect the power until youre finished, YOU WILL have efficiency problems because items take turns at the outputs of splitters even if you do "belt balancing"

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if you connect machines to power as you build from the start of the production line to the end, every machine will build up a buffer at the input and output

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this is incredibly important when working with fluids, as is the verticality of pipes to ensure liquid flows in the desired directions

terse otter
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I never balance my belts, I just let the balancing fix itself by filling some of the assembling machines to full.

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Makes some wierd buffering, but I never really pay attention to buffers.

frosty pawn
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the amount of throughput loss that you are worried about is negligible when you have small numbers turned into bigger numbers and then compressed into smaller numbers again (ore to parts to more parts to less parts to advanced parts)

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at the end of the production line for tier 7 and 8 items the losses are so small that your machines will be running at 100% and will probably even have an input buffer that only goes up or stays steady

terse otter
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If you have the right ratios of machines, the timing that you plug everything in shouldn't matter in my understanding

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Long run, if too much is being pushed into one machine, it'll eventually get shunted to machines that are getting too little, and the whole system will correct itself.

frosty pawn
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youre right, i said you will have efficiency problems, but they will iron themselves out eventually. i just dont have the patience to wait when i build huge manifolds lol. i let all the belts fill up before i turn on the power for the next stage of production and i manually fill up some inputs too

terse otter
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It does make the system feel better for sure

hybrid star
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I have a query about using the calculator properly. I'm trying to make a turbofuel factory. I've turned on all the recipes and I'm using the blender version. I'm also triple sharding everything to reduce the amount of buildings. My input is 600 oil and as far as I can tell the output will be 800 turbofuel. Initially it makes 800 heavy oil residue. 200 of that splits off to make 400 coke. the remaining residue then loops around the other way to help load balance the final product line. Similarly another 200 line of residue goes to making fuel because the site tells me I need 266.7 of fuel. Each final output blender eats 15 fuel normally but by 2.5 that's 37.5 which requires 7.112 blenders to eat it all. Each then produces 112.5 turbo fuel which goes to approx 800. Does this make sense or have I used the tool wrong?

wind spade
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which calculator?

hybrid star
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https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/production-planner/index/index/json/{"Desc_LiquidTurboFuel_C"%3A"800"%2C"input"%3A{"Desc_Sulfur_C"%3A"600"%2C"Desc_LiquidOil_C"%3A"600"}%2C"oreExtraction"%3A"Build_MinerMk3_C%3Bpure"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_HeavyOilResidue_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_DilutedFuel_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_TurboBlendFuel_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Turbofuel_C"]%2C"powerShards"%3A"1000"}

[SCIM] Satisfactory - Calculator

Satisfactory helper to calculate your production needs. | Gaming Tool/Wiki/Database to empower the players.

frank mesa
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In my experience the tool works best when you only enable the recipes you want to use.

sand garnet
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that link lmao

hybrid star
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decent chance it takes you what I did though

wind spade
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yeah there are some tools with shorter links snuttstach_think

sand garnet
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might I suggest https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production ? since greeny wont plug his own stuff, I will do it for him lmao

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

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usually a bit easier on the eyes in general as well for long production chains

wind spade
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also with 600 oil you can make 1333 turbofuel πŸ˜‰

unknown.png
frank mesa
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I also like to cut my production chains in step by step pieces

wind spade
sand garnet
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I think it's a good thing to compare results actually

hybrid star
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does the math I did make sense though?

wind spade
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sure, but I just feel bad for luring people to my tool 🀷 I'd rather if they came by themselves due to my tool having the features they want

frank mesa
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I love your calculation tool, Greeny

sand garnet
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in this case, it was the right choice because SCIM seems to do suboptimal stuff

fierce ruin
frank mesa
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I also use the wiki to figure out the most efficient recipes to use

fierce ruin
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not always completely accurate since afaik it can't account for the cost of inputted products

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but it does very well for recipes that use raw resources

hybrid star
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On that note I was trying to keep the sulpher cost down with the blenders and not using diluted fuel

frank mesa
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I do a manual process calculation

terse otter
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I'm curious, I decided to enable all the recipes and do thermal propulsion rockets with the calc that was just linked, and it used the coke steel ingot recipe. Does that make sense for high production builds?

frank mesa
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Maybe that's just me, but I do process calculations for a living 😎

wind spade
frosty pawn
# terse otter I'm curious, I decided to enable all the recipes and do thermal propulsion rocke...

coke steel ingots is the fastest, so it can take more input and make more output with less machines (and therefore less power use). it's my favourite steel recipe, but i find that using coke steel instead of solid steel lets a lot of coal go unused. so even though i personally prefer coke steel, i usually end up using solid steel far more often.
a good place to use coke steel ingots recipe is on the "gold coast" and rocky desert starting area because the nearest good source of coal is some place where you will probably already have a coal power plant. you can use the default iron ingots recipe to make all the things you need up to the point where you leave the rocky desert starting area to expand and then when you need much more of everything, you can come back and convert them to the pure iron ingots recipe with upgraded miners and have enough leftover ore to consume a bunch of coke from a short train line that brings HOR or coke from the islands just south of there

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also, if you wanted to use the coal at the crater lakes for steel, there are some pure iron nodes near the bottom of the waterfall, so you would porbably use that iron instead of the stuff at your starting location

wind spade
cold rock
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man oh man that's a lot of machines on that 600 crude to turbofuel calc

oblique hollow
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"haha pultonium fuel rod sinking go brrrr" with a side of train logistics. it is understandable if some people would rather just use the rods again

unknown.png
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and im even using alts here

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so im skipping a few steps

shy mason
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buidling the plutonium nuclear reactors is a bigger pain than just sinking them for the points and cleaning up of radioactive material. I'll turn them to fuel when i need them power wise. Not even using a 1/5th of my uranium rods yet with top half of the map already industrialized.

frosty owl
fringe pawn
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Or underclock for a bit

terse otter
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It's largely meaningless to me, though I can see why people might be a bit compulsive about that kind of thing

frosty owl
# frosty pawn youre right, i said you will have efficiency problems, but they will iron themse...

Regardless of balancing or manifolding, the end result with losses is much like what @terse otter described, being reflected by a spiky power draw
... And if not all machines are running, you ARE losing items
I doubt a system with over 30 machines running on a 780 long belt will have less than one spike in its power graph (so one production cycle lost every... Minute? How long does it take for the graph to move from side to side? πŸ˜…)

frosty owl
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Managed to have it flat on my nuclear factory... The one that I had to remake hehe

terse otter
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Yeah. It all evens out eventually so I don't care, but it's not something to push either way on. I just like the simplicity in my systems. I can just run a belt along my crafters and spilt off without thinking about it

frosty owl
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Of course
Just like one can get into the nitty gritty details and try smoothing out every imperfection
We got a world of choices~ :praisethesun:

fringe pawn
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plays the scene with Neo and The Architect

lament chasm
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hello people

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i have a problem got 800 heavy oil and am using 750 to produce fuel i wanna use up that last 50 but have no idea what to clock my refiner at

terse otter
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A 30/min recipe + 50% overclock is the closest you can get to even usage.

fierce ruin
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it's hard to give an exact answer without knowing what recipe you use; but clock speed on machine accept math expression, you can just put 100*50/(oil consumption of your recipe) to get the OC needed

frosty owl
lament chasm
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i figured it out

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i need to clock it at exactly 83.334 to use exactly 50 oil
and that will create 33.334 fuel per minute

open zenith
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I have a itsy bitsy problem. I need 360 m2 water for my coal generators but as you know the MK1 pipelines max flow rate is 300. Is there a workaround to this?

lament chasm
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yes

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double up the pipes

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or unlock MK2 pipes

open zenith
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How do I double up?

fierce ruin
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feed a pipe from both end (2 water on 1 side, 1 on th other)

open zenith
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Oh

fierce ruin
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both of these work

unknown.png
open zenith
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I'll try the first one

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Thanks :D

frosty owl
lament chasm
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heavy as input

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sry if that wasnt clear

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ive been playing for about 12 hours in total now

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plus its 3:48 in the morning for me

silent ocean
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What is the function of the dogs? or how can I make them collect materials? I don't get it this game mechanic very well

sand garnet
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!wikisearch lizard doggo

shadow prairieBOT
lament chasm
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then every so often you can walk up to them press E and open there inventory

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and they will have a random itme in there

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very good source of power slugs

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and nuclear waste

lament chasm
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i have 32 gens

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using 384 fuel

fierce ruin
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fuel gen is harder, as it's non linear

frosty owl
# lament chasm heavy as input

Ohh, you're using the "residual fuel" recipe... Didn't even take that into consideration hehe (too used to the diluted version

lament chasm
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yep

silent ocean
lament chasm
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but im turning crude into heavy then heavy to fuel

frosty owl
fierce ruin
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250%OC is 202% more fuel consumption, and i guess it won't be enough for you

lament chasm
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this is dedicated to fuel power

fierce ruin
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build more gen

lament chasm
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so i need to get it to use 25 fuel each

frosty owl
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Then tweak the fuel production to a multiple of the fuel gens' input
Handling the excess HOR is easier than clocking them at the exact value needed

lament chasm
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true

frosty owl
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Cause in the end it's like either 24.999 or 25.001 or something

lament chasm
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24.28

frosty owl
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Bad numbers disappointed_snutt

lament chasm
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thats the max amount it uses

fierce ruin
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you can still input math expression, it's a bit harder, but i guess you can get the OC formula for gen on the wiki

lament chasm
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nah im think im just gonna let it be for now and get some sleep

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the numbers are making my head hurt

open zenith
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And how can I change this?

unknown.png
fierce ruin
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that's why it's easier to just input math expression in the overclock; you let the game deal with numbers for you πŸ™‚

frosty owl
fierce ruin
open zenith
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Its just floating

open zenith
frosty owl
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You get pipe supports when you place down the pipes

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The junctions don't have supports

open zenith
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Huh

sand garnet
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which part is confusing

oblique hollow
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junction goes on pipe, pipe has supports,
therefore junction doesnt need supports

glacial hemlock
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and whether it is in game or not, pipe supports are installed on pipes, not junctions

dawn pebble
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how can you get the satisfactory tools website to do alternate recipes

fierce ruin
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go in recipies, then check the recipies you want

wind spade
fringe pawn
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I'm getting into nuclear power. I told Greeny's tool to maximize 300 uranium ore -> uranium cells, and it reports 7.2 per minute. So, 36 power plants?

fierce ruin
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that's right.

dawn pebble
fringe pawn
#

To calc plutonium rod production, do I need to enter a value for on-hand waste? Are power plants not considered part of the production chain?

fierce ruin
#

in greeny's tool i think generator aren't included so you need to add waste by hand

wind spade
fringe pawn
#

Okay, so 36 plants producing 5 waste per minute, I should tell it I have 180 uranium waste on hand?

wind spade
#

yeah

#

adding power plants is planned for the futureℒ️, but there's a lot of work to be done

fringe pawn
#

An error message specific to plutonium rods would probably be enough, anyone advanced enough to be using and understanding your site can hopefully handle that. πŸ˜›

wind spade
#

that would assume I have time to do some development πŸ˜›

#

(and if I do, I spend it on v2 of the tools)

fringe pawn
#

The numbers work nicely for implementing nuclear power in thirds, though I think I'll have one extra manufacturer for the rods at every step just to be sure (9, 17, and 25 rod manufactuerers). As long as the ore production is tight, I'll have put wiggle room everywhere else.

#

Now I just need to figure out a cool way to develop the node on the desert mesa.

#

Hm. Maybe I won't do an extra fuel rod manufacturer, actually. A manifold should be able to split that perfectly. Miner -> 2 belts -> 4 belts -> 8 belts should work.

rare zodiac
#

Ok

#

Ok

sweet loom
#

Original worksheet for converting the waste from 20 nuke plants to usable Plutonium pellets

IMG_0524.JPG
frosty pawn
#

Quality Guaranteed superexcited

fringe pawn
#

Honestly, that's why I'm so grateful for all the community tools. In any game where I start to open Excel or some other external resource to start to make my own tools, it's always nice when I look first and see that someone has already made the tool, and done a better job than I ever would have.

wind spade
#

and then you realise how many bugs those tools have and how lazy their dev is thonk3D

fringe pawn
#

One day, when my own work is perfect, I will proceed to judging very harshly.

#

Though I confess there's always some charm to a personal Excel sheet that's hideous for anyone but yourself to look at

versed violet
#

The benefir of personal excel is that you can adjust coefficients until you get the result you want, or realize you made mistake in formula somewhere

wind spade
#

the disadvantage is that you have to write all the complex math πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ or ignore complex math and just pick "best" recipes manually

versed violet
#

It allows the flexibility of deciding what category of 'best' you want to go with. Like 'least power used', or 'less buildings' or 'max output per input'.
Then, when you have the 'best' recipes for your scenario...
... go plug them into greeny calc for actual numbers πŸ˜‰

wind spade
#

sure πŸ˜‰ tho least power used is coming soon to my calc

#

least buildings should be pretty much the same as least power

#

and max output per input is the same as current algorithm πŸ˜‰

fringe pawn
#

If I had a magic wand, I would have each step also list the possible underclock threshold to before you lose production, assuming a tight system. IE, if you're told a given step needs 5.12 assemblers, what underclocks can you apply safely? That's a calculation I find myself frequently making.

#

An even fancier option would be the ability to set a target building count for a given step, which then shows the clockspeed required to achieve the desired number.

oblique hollow
#

any underclock is safe, what do you mean

fringe pawn
#

A calculation of how much you could underclock a particular step without hurting the production chain. Suppose you have an MK3 miner on a pure node (480 per minute), but the production chain can only support 240 ores per minute. Clocking the miner at 1% loses you production overall, but clocking at 50%, in theory, loses you no production while saving you power.

oblique hollow
#

that really isnt a hard calculation then

#

mostly, all steps are tighly interlocked

fringe pawn
#

You're absolutely right. But I can daydream πŸ˜›

oblique hollow
#

where if one step is below 100% efficiency, it will be shown throughout the system

#

and the calc shows the precise clocking of every machine anyway

#

(with the exception of miners but thats not hard to figure out)

fierce ruin
#

you can also put this calculation into the OC input of your machine, just put "=100*number of ingot you want / normal miner production" and its ok

fringe pawn
#

Man, alts can just give ridiculous numbers. Pure iron ingot, solid steel ingot, and steel coated plate will do just over 10,000 iron plates from a feed of 600 iron ores.

#

That costs you a little under 600 crude and the fiddly recycling loop to create a lot of plastic.

versed violet
#

The fiddly recycling loop to make plastic from 600 crude eats like 4000 MW, so its not 'simple'

fringe pawn
#

I don't think anyone described it as simple?

#

There is a simple part to that whole thing. To get the steel ingots in the first place, 12 refineries doing pure iron ingot at 150% to feed to 12 foundries at 250% doing solid steel ingot. Whether for the iron plates or anything else, I think this is the best steel production you can do, unless you want to do coke steel to get rid of HOR.

#

Napkin math on the clocks, though, they could be slightly less.

versed violet
#

Just built a recycling loop for 600 crude into 1k+ rubber, and it is biiig. I'd rather build a second iron miner than this load of buildings for recycled plastic 😫
#screenshots message

oblique hollow
#

I converted 300 fuel to 270 turbo and a bit of recycled rubber and plastic. That aready was a bit much for me tbh

versed violet
#

the day will come, when you will need 1k of rubber and have to build a bigger refinery.

#

Can't quite remember why I needed 1k of rubber though thinking_helmet

oblique hollow
#

I have barely anything that needs rubber rn

versed violet
#

Project parts (motor), insulated crystal oscilators, and I'm -450 rubber.

fringe pawn
versed violet
#

Sure, solving that 'fit within floorplan' puzzle is challenging, but when you're done, all you see from outside is just an ugly box

oblique hollow
#

Honestly? My proudest build isnt some mega- facility. Its a small refinement site. But i spent effort to decorate it

fringe pawn
#

Even the floorplan challenge fades quickly

versed violet
#

Define 'decorate' 🀣
My refinery is alive with random catwalks, signs, safety railings, fences and so on.

fringe pawn
#

I'm still struggling to get catwalks to look nice. They don't snap to walls, and it's tough to make them look well supported.

versed violet
#

I've given up on trying to support them, maybe snake them around terrain/foundations to get feel they don't hang in void.

#

The old refinery: #screenshots message
The 'office' was actually furnished before U4 ate the only mod with furniture 😒
There's still the sign to not drink tap water inside πŸ˜‰

supple basalt
fringe pawn
#

I'm not sure how you're interpreting my reply?

frosty owl
#

Maybe answered the wrong message? πŸ˜†

fringe pawn
#

:blamegreeny:

#

Rats, that's a custom emoji apparently

frosty owl
#

I wonder what server could it be from... πŸ˜‰

bleak coral
#

well you'll have to join that server, and becomes blue

#

no outside emojis for us average folk

wind spade
#

I think there's also "and pay for nitro"

#

but not sure

sand garnet
#

yeah I dont think I can use any external stuff even though Im also blue

#

just checked, yup, I need nitro

upbeat tide
#

Im not nitro because I just dont see the value add for me personally.

wind spade
sand garnet
#

for me it's just a matter of saving up money for other stuff

upbeat tide
#

Well, I mean for me at least, animated wmoji’s are nice and all. I am not fond of sub services much in general. Shocker moment, I dont have a netflix account πŸ™‚

sand garnet
#

it adds up surprisingly quickly so I can spend the money on gifts for myself and family

wind spade
#

I also often stream some stuff to friends, so the increased quality is nice

upbeat tide
#

Ok, that is a value add right there. You have a reason

wind spade
#

well I bought it before I started streaming 🀷

upbeat tide
#

Anyway to Satisfactory stuff, my never ending aluminum ingot smithing facility has grown a bit more. Now up to 5220 ingots a min produced.

#

Using 4 pure, 3 normal, and 1 impure node so far

fringe pawn
#

Built up in the mountains?

upbeat tide
#

Nope, no mountains for this build. Ill get ya a SCIM map soon

upbeat tide
#

@fringe pawn

unknown.png
#

the aluminum facility is a bit north of the void hole

fringe pawn
#

Those are some clean lines pulling the aluminum in, wow

#

The green paint is a nice touch

upbeat tide
#

zoomed out a bit more

unknown.png
#

its built so that each block is for one normal or pure node.

#

There is an odd number of impure bauxite nodes, so one impure block is setup too

fringe pawn
#

Which recipes?

upbeat tide
#

Sloppy + electrode + pure alu

analog loom
#

Cast screw bp or bolted iron plate bp?

versed violet
#

iron wire + stitched plate πŸ‘…

half pollen
#

I want to build Satisfactory school, For intro, I need to make a room very dark with light right on that object. Do you have any way to suggest how do I do that

versed violet
#

Wait till ingame night, use ceiling light on target?

wind spade
analog loom
#

Why not

oblique hollow
#

cast is quite ok tbh

half pollen
#

But it lights it up a little too much

oblique hollow
#

reduce intensity of the light

#

if its a ceiling light: use the light control panel

wind spade
# analog loom Why not

screws are useless, you should get rid of them, bolted plate uses more resources than standard RIP

half pollen
#

And what should I use as a good surface

oblique hollow
#

you really only have one surface to use: foundations

#

unless you mean the backdrop

wind spade
#

what about normal ground?

half pollen
#

How about I use the top pillar

oblique hollow
#

whatever you want

#

its your video intro

half pollen
#

Okay, I was just asking for advice

viral pulsar
#

Hello, I would like a bit of help setting up my splitter system, I have a 60 steel beam going into 2 Encased Industrial Beam assemblers.
I want it to feed both assemblers 24/min, **and **I want the 12/min steel beams left to come out as an extra.
However, in the first splitter, 60 is separated into 30 & 30 per minute, with the first assembler only being able to take in 24/min, the real output should be 24 & 36 per minute, correct?
So into the second splitter, the 36/min gets separated into 18 & 18, but I want it to be 24 & 12, will my second assembler work at 100% if I keep the current layout, or do I have to add a 3 way splitter and feed 6 back to the 18 belt to make it 24?

unknown.png
wind spade
#

either smart splitter with overflow or make one constructor underclocked and going directly to storage

oblique hollow
#

24 & 12 would be done with a 4 way split

viral pulsar
#

I don't have the smart splitter unlocked yet, so additional splitters might be required, thanks for the help!

fierce ruin
#

@viral pulsar for your right splitter, split in 3, send one to steel beams, merge the 2 others for your assembler, and you are ok

oblique hollow
#

hmm. wait. im a dummy, 24 & 12 is a 3-way splΓΆit

analog loom
#

If I have 4 normal coal nodes, this will power 16 coal generators right? Cause each takes 15 coal/min?

oblique hollow
#

depends on what miner mk you have

analog loom
#

Mk1

#

60/min per miner.

oblique hollow
#

yeah one node is enough for 4 at 100% then

fierce ruin
#

16 gen will need 240, so that's rigth

analog loom
#

Okay and then how many water extractors would i need?

oblique hollow
#

for 8 gens? 3

analog loom
#

So 6 for 16

oblique hollow
#

yes

#

make sure to use multiple pipes though

#

so you dont hit the 300 bottleneck

#

you would need around 4 seperate pipes

viral pulsar
cedar mica
#

Hmm, 13/m of each T4 space elevator parts, seems to be what the map can handle without alt recipes. Copper and Oil, is the bottleneck

oblique hollow
#

90% of oil problems get resolved by 1 alt recipe, funny enough

cedar mica
#

Polymer?

oblique hollow
#

lol no polymer is bad

#

not that bad but there is a better recipe

#

HOR

cedar mica
#

Cant do anything with Heavy Oil, without more alts

#

Polymer, can be used without alts

oblique hollow
#

but polymer conversion for plastic and rubber is horrible

#

without the alts, it too sucks

cedar mica
#

Its bad, but calculator still says its better then just straight plastic and rubber

oblique hollow
#

with the recycled recipe, it turns into a second grade recipe next to the HOR one

#

1,75 conversion ratio vs 3 of HOR plus recycled

cedar mica
#

With all the alts, I can get close to 60/m of each space elevator part

fierce ruin
#

to be honest, for oil the best is to go hunt for HDD early; as is change the way you build completly, it's better to have all recipes before building too much oil factory

cedar mica
#

The only issue I have without alts, is the Heavy Oil Residue. Guess thats what my power will be

#

Only need about 70GW

upbeat tide
#

With all oil alternates, heavy oil residue is the only thing you make from raw crude

cedar mica
#

Seems straight fuel + residual fuel, wont be enough. Only around 46GW made, of 70-80GW needed

#

Guess I need to throw in Diluted Fuel, to make the math work out on power

upbeat tide
#

As early oil power, that does work

#

If you have diluted fuel and turbo boend fuel, best combo

cedar mica
#

I'm trying to make 13/m of the T7-8 space elevator part and power them, without alts. Seems it cant be done, on straight oil

#

Oh, 50GW of coal power, is just 10k coal. So issue solved

topaz hedge
#

you gonna make 60/min pasta? (:

#

oh nevermind XD

cedar mica
#

13/m is max without alts. 57/m with alts.

upbeat tide
topaz hedge
#

you CAN make 60/min pasta I believe.

cedar mica
upbeat tide
#

Yea...dunno why I had a brain block

topaz hedge
#

pure copper + all copper on map. use elect. connection rod for nuclear and you don't need copper for powa xD

#

666 coal gens. lol

upbeat tide
#

Been playing with aluminum too much πŸ™‚

cedar mica
#

If you throw all the copper at the issue, 60.13/m nuclear pasta

#

Think I will settle for 13/m. Then see once that 500 hour project is done

topaz hedge
#

well, yes, throw all the coppa at it. i thought about it. it's pretty much a fresh save from the ground up since everything leading up to it has to be done copper free.

cedar mica
#

Even 13/m still uses all the copper, just with 945 smelters, instead of 1920 refinerys

upbeat tide
#

Eewww not using pure copper πŸ™‚

topaz hedge
#

I did 20/min with 320 pure copper refineries @200%

#

used all the copper in dune desert to do it lol

cedar mica
#

No alts, for that save. Just to see the scale, you get without

topaz hedge
#

no alts sounds painful x.x

fringe pawn
#

I think this is my worst hard drive yet. Biocoal, auto miner, or fine concrete? I know I've still got some useful recipes floating in the pool.

wind spade
#

auto miner is great

#

automation ftw

fringe pawn
#

I did grab miner, just with the vague hope that a patch will arrive which gives miners another use, and makes them stack.

bleak coral
#

at least it's not a meme or definitely garbage recipe lol

fringe pawn
#

If I were inclined to use this save for update 5, I might literally hoard HDDs instead of gathering all current recipes. If I were down to the two coal alts and two crappy concrete alts.

bleak coral
#

I doubt they'll add more recipes than hard drives. They'll probably add more hard drives and alt recipes

fringe pawn
#

Right, but if new tiers and new alts are added, I can take a few shots at them immediately by hoarding.

topaz hedge
#

Maybe they'll remove the biocoal alts and make something useful out of them

#

oneday(tm)

upbeat tide
#

Nah biocoal is a meme. Let it be a meme

fringe pawn
#

Hm. If you get the compacted coal recipe, is it worth switching over and adding coal generators to an existing array versus moving on to fuel generators? An MK4 belt on a pure node can generate over 5GW

frosty pawn
#

charcoal can be really nice sometimes for a temporary supply of coal, but biocoal is poo

glacial hemlock
loud trellis
wind spade
#

That depends if you want to go nuclear

#

I'd say don't go turbofuel if you want nuclear

open zenith
#

Is Industrial Storage worth? I want to make a storage space and I dont know If I want to wait till Industrial Storage

deft lichen
deft lichen
open zenith
#

Alright

wind spade
#

for some items I'd say even normal container is more than enough

#

(but that also depends on how fast do you make those items)

open zenith
#

I am lacking space rn. All of the containers in the factories are full and apart.

#

So I think of something big

#

I just need space and get them together

#

I guess I will wait for the Industrial

#

And what do you think about early game ratio of steal beams and pipes?

wind spade
open zenith
#

Early game

wind spade
#

don't make items that don't have purpose, make items in ratio of what you're making

open zenith
#

I have just set a steal factory and the charcoal alt is amazing

wind spade
#

yeah so keep the ingots and when you need pipes or beams, make just the amount you need

#

don't pre-make stuff just to redo it later because you made wrong amount

frosty gull
#

^ just make what you need for other production lines

#
  • extra for building
glacial hemlock
#

There is a point at the later stage where the usage of beams become negligible

upbeat tide
#

So, today my aluminum plant will be making 7200 of the 9780 possible ingots.

Using sloppy + electrode + pure alu

oblique hollow
#

9780 possible ingots? Should be 10030

#

Unless things got changed again

upbeat tide
#

Thats with normal alumnia solution

#

At least should be

oblique hollow
#

Oh wait pure alu

#

Yeah pure is below the absolute max

upbeat tide
#

Yea sloppy + electrode + pure is the lowest max

#

But cuts out silica entirely and makes the alumnia solution step a bit cleaner in general

#

@oblique hollow comparison charts for max aluminum i got making

oblique hollow
#

Yep yep, i know, i also did a chart on all combinations

unknown-20-1.png
upbeat tide
#

I was originally considering normal + electrode + normal with cheap silica, but decided even almost 5k silica isnt woeth it for an extra 1k

#

Aah nice

oblique hollow
#

(Normal Ingots) is simply the default alu route

upbeat tide
#

Yup

#

currently working on my next expansion phase

unknown.png
oblique hollow
#

Hehe, thats funny, i also have 2 platforms in a similar configuration right there

upbeat tide
#

another 1980 ingots soon

oblique hollow
#

Except i also ship in fuel for heat fused frames

upbeat tide
#

yea this is only aluminum ingots so far

#

@oblique hollow more from the back side

unknown.png
oblique hollow
#

Cant wait for the day when we dont need refieries for everything anymore

#

But i bet Tiet 9 will be Blender Hell then xd

upbeat tide
#

I would have loved to use instant scrap, but 6.5k sulfur is alot

oblique hollow
#

Yeah, sulfut is quite spread out...

upbeat tide
#

yea and im already using 1200 of it for turbofuel, and need around 3k total for nuclear/plutonium. That alone drops me below the asking price for instant scrap max

#

if they moved thee pure iron, copper, cat, quartz alts out of the refinery, into a special packager sized building, than that would be awesome

bronze silo
#

hey guys, does Diluted Packaged Fuel lead to more fuel than other recipes?

upbeat tide
#

? The alt recipe unlock? Dont think its tied like compacted coal/turbofuel

fierce ruin
#

diluted fuel give more fuel than diluted packaged fuel. But the packaged version is the second best one to have fuel.

bronze silo
#

good to know ... thanks

upbeat tide
#

But unlocking diluted fuel only needs you to have the blender unlocked

sullen cloud
#

Did they also mention on stream that a world update will come before update 5?

oblique hollow
#

Kinda

#

Buuut that wasnt concrete planned stuff

bleak coral
sullen cloud
oblique hollow
#

i know that the world update was planned

#

buuut we'll see when they manage to squeeze it in

#

since they also said vehicle fix before u5 (i think, at least)

bleak coral
#

to be fair, world team is a different team to who would work on vehicle stuff, they have talked about how the world builders are kind of separate and the trick is getting their work merged with the main branch at the right time to not disrupt other work

#

so it's not impossible to get both

oblique hollow
#

soooo ig next update is "Nature Update" then:

  • World got changed a bit!
  • Vehicles got embettered ℒ️
  • Fancy new Water and Waterfalls
bleak coral
#

That'd be super neat!

#

Might be a reason to start agin tbh, if they change the world enough, and have a reason to play around with vehicles in early game

oblique hollow
#

vehicles but they got the same neatness of drones (minus the flight)

#

so input is market for items and fuel, they show roundtrip time

#

etc.

swift robin
#

vehicles with neatness?? omg that would be amazing. i enjoy vehicles as they are but they can be frustrating

sand garnet
fringe pawn
#

36 nuclear plants produce 180 waste per minute, right? Do people prefer non-fissile, instant cell, and fuel unit to dispose of it? Which means 4.8 blenders, 3.2 accelerators, and 3.2 assemblers, or 3 of each if I push clocks.

oblique hollow
#

thats kinda a mixed bag

#

i like instant cell because one step less

fringe pawn
#

Yeah, instant cell was definitely a good grab when I was scanning HDDs.

#

Fertile uranium seems more complicated, due to needing an additional uranium feed or reducing nuke plants. Fuel unit and fuel cell seem like more of a toss up.

pliant barn
#

Whats the most effective way of distributing turbo fuel from 71 refineries to 290 generators. Do I try and split them up into individual 600m^3 systems or can I plumb them all together in a massive even grid as long as I have inflow into this grid spread out.

#

(Please ping me so I can find any responses)

frosty gull
pliant barn
#

in 71.11 refineries I produce it at 1333ish/min and at 296ish generators I should consume it at an equal rate

frosty gull
#

if you ask me.. i personally would use individual 600m^3 pipes,

#

might be faster to fuel the generators in the back in that way

pliant barn
#

some of the ratios will be garbage so I might just underclock until I hit something divisible by 4.5

fringe pawn
#

Have you built it already?

fierce ruin
#

filling pipes to the max might not be a good idea, it expose you to max flow bug

pliant barn
# fringe pawn Have you built it already?

I started work on the compacted coal portion as I have to ship it across the map and decided that perhaps I should get some insight from some pro's before I go ahead and commit

#

The system is massive and ideally aims to power everything I got so far so I can retire all my coal generators

fringe pawn
#

If you have the power shards you'll want to overclock to reduce machine count and make the numbers work nicely.

frosty gull
#

im not a pro.. only like 60 hours in the game as i got it last week... XD but it would sound the most logical to me

pliant barn
fierce ruin
#

it would be safer to do that: one big multifeed manifold with pipe is just asking for trouble.

fringe pawn
#

A manifold would be fine. You could go down to 30 turbofuel refineries with a 240% overclock on each. That would result in a 45/minute maximum flow from each one, which is a nice number to work with.

pliant barn
fringe pawn
#

Build one quarter or one half at a time. Or start with a system wide underclock. For addition consideration, clock your compacted coal assemblers at 145%. Then you can have 30 assemblers feeding the 30 turbofuel refineries. Underclock your packagers as well for nice symmetry, 30 machines at every step.

frosty gull
#

if your worried about your current power grid, you can start it section by section, ramping up your power bit by bit

#

or have full batteries ready

fringe pawn
#

You could also get packagers and fuel refineries down to 15 (each feeding a pair of turbofuel refineries) by clocking them at 180%. Then do a 134% overclock on your HOR refineries to get them down to 15 as well.

#

Based on the numbers I just provided, you could easily build the 15/30 system in thirds.

pliant barn
#

Hmm, ill have to go sketch that up (i can only think about things i can see) but reading that makes logical sense

#

Yea, id already made one of those up by those exaxt specs.
Then i get out my grid paper and start drawing and annotating.

#

I know its slow but it is genuinely the only way i can make these mutant setups with as few errors as possible

fringe pawn
#

The 15/30 building counts and the provided clockspeeds give you a little spare capacity at every step. You should just be able to safely swap those numbers in at every step. The only issue is dealing with the uneven amount of turbofuel production. I'd just round down by a 4.5 increment and say that you're all set.

#

A larger version of that can be used to feed the fuel generators. The whole thing can be linked, but I'd make the whole system in 3 modules of 98/99.

#

Will this be multistory?

fringe pawn
#

One final consideration for harmonious numbers would be to perhaps go to 300 fuel generators. Either by underclocking slightly, or feeding your turbofuel system a little bit of oil from a neighboring node (total 607.5 crude) for 300 full power generators.

upbeat tide
#

Do you have blended fuel and turbo blend fuel? If so use those alts

#

My turbofuel setup takes in 900m3 oil, some water, and 1200 sulfur to make 2400 turbo fuel

wide roost
#

i can get higher but there's not a blender in sight for turbo blend fuel

upbeat tide
wide roost
#

huh

#

gotta remove the diluted packaged fuel alternate recipe to get that

#

otherwise i can confirm that output now

#

thanks @upbeat tide

upbeat tide
#

Yea blended fuel is soooooo much nicer.

wide roost
#

yeah i've got a huuuuuge 200+ fuel gen powerplant from 1200 crude

#

that i've now got to completely rebuild because of this new plan

#

thank you, i hate you lol /s

fringe pawn
#

Based on the earlier inquiries from @pliant barn , I started thinking about what a pre-aluminum (no blenders) oil processing operation might look like, and came up with this: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=XcNQI5xdGqEFazz8heHO

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

#

The whipping boy of the system would be the packaged fuel output for the jetpack, which is perfect, because obviously that isn't sensitive. I included some petroleum coke for future aluminum production, but that could be removed.

#

At the advent of nuclear power, decommission the turbofuel production and reconfigure to use blenders.

#

Or automate lots of vehicles to use all the turbofuel? πŸ€“

versed violet
cedar mica
wind spade
fringe pawn
#

That would be pretty amusing to create a gigantic obstacle course full of explorers using up plutonium

versed violet
fringe pawn
#

Y'know, there's actually a decent use case in the making here. Set a receiving storage container to send overflow plutonium to the sink, but otherwise it goes to trucks doing logistics work related to your nuclear supply chain. It's already radioactive, so it's not creating any additional hazards. Or does fueling the vehicle with rods contain the radiation anyway?

wind spade
#

using vehicles for transportation is worse than any radiation

fierce ruin
#

iirc you don't take radiation damage while you are in a vehicle, but you still take it when you are around

wind spade
#

just do trains or drones and keep vehicles for exploration

bleak coral
#

until they fix the pathing issues vehicles are always gonna be unreliable

fringe pawn
#

I think we've all been waiting for good pathfinding in video games since the 90s πŸ˜›

sullen cloud
#

Iβ€˜ve had automated vehicles running for several hundred hours without issues. Key is to have them outside rendering distance especially when loading the save

versed violet
#

and don't accidentally cut power to refueling stations.

wind spade
#

or just... use trains πŸ˜›

late coral
#

some one wants to paly satisfactory?

wind spade
versed violet
bleak coral
wind spade
#

also they are less power efficient than trains

fringe pawn
#

Yeah, 200m I'd rather just use a belt

#

In general, I'd always rather use a belt than trucks, as anything that makes running a belt difficult will also probably wreck truck pathfinding.

versed violet
#

I just like my truckies Β―_(ツ)_/Β―

fringe pawn
#

That's fair. I did design most of my big orange boxes with doors big enough so trucks could drive through. But I never ended up doing anything with them.

versed violet
#

I like riding the front platform on my truck to see the scenic view from the route. takes longer than by train, but views are nice

drowsy flicker
#

So finally got around to building my Plutonium Fuel Rod Spaghetti to recycle my nuclear waste, and I've calculated it will take ~6 Days of playing satisfactory (net -20 uranium waste/min) to fully clean out my surplus of Uranium Waste (168,000 units). Very cool, Thank you Plutonium Fuel Rods for being sinkable.

#

Or I could forgo the sink add 2 Uranium Plants and 5 Plutonium plants for that sweet sweet power. Plutonium Waste isn't THAT radioactive... oh... it is.

#

Well that can wait until I need that power.

wind spade
#

waste is hardly a problem, people complain about it more than they should

drowsy flicker
#

Plan is once the Uranium Waste is fully recycled I can re-route Uranium waste to evade that storage and fill it with Plutonium Instead, it'll last effectively forever so that's nice.

fringe pawn
#

I'm just going to build a 10x10x10 cube of containers with an overflow sink. If the containers fill with plutonium rods (from 36 reactors), I'll know I've played too long πŸ˜›

drowsy flicker
#

That's a lot of power to just keep in a box, I admire it

#

I'm topping at 10 Uranium + 5 Plutonium Nuclear plants (once I need that power, don't yet), Should be enough for all my needs until U5.

#

All the infrastructure to reach that amount is in place, Just need the Plutonium Nuke Plants and the Water to feed them, wouldn't take more than an hour.

topaz hedge
#

No point producting plutonium waste if you don't need the power.. one day when I play factory again, I'll work on setting mine up. I think I'll have enough plutonium rods for... 55 npp? It's been awhile. lol But what I've decided is I'm going to build the plant, to burn them, hook everything up with overflows connected to a sink, and standby all the npp's and start flying plutonium rods in.

sand epoch
#

If i ever do it.. I'll be flying the waste to a large storage bin in the sky.

fringe pawn
#

#screenshots Before I get too deep into the rest of the process, any words of wisdom for a first time nuclear plant builder?

sullen cloud
#

Whatever you do, make sure you can walk around when the machines are running and everything is radiated

fringe pawn
#

Y'know, I hadn't thought of that at all. πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ I wired the whole place up so I could build it entirely with the hoverpack, but that'll mean no hazmat suit.

#

So that was really good to know while I still can fly around πŸ˜›

#

What's annoying is that at first it seems like catwalks connect nicely to the upper deck of nuclear plants, but then you notice some awful clipping. 😦

frosty owl
#

Though, I would recommend having the reactors at water level, so you can avoid using pumps and find some cool designs combining them with the water extractors

fringe pawn
#

Heh heh, I was actually breathing through inhalers yesterday. I had just a little bit left to go in the swamp before I reached the point of fully exploring them map. But I had run out of filters.

fierce ruin
#

@frosty owl while i see you here, i continued a bit the tests on belts on max throughput if you are interested by more details (tldr: belt/belt connection are bad, using splitter/merger is better, belt lenght doesn't seem that important).

frosty owl
#

Sure, since we don't have a testing channel, this is the only place to post those (for future reference too) πŸ˜†

fringe pawn
#

The channel isn't busy enough that anyone will mind. Probably all such higher level nerdiness interests people who come here anyway.

worldly axle
#

Hey, is there any recommendation which amount of aluminum ingots should be turned into aluminum sheets and aluminum casings?

fringe pawn
worldly axle
#

@fringe pawn Alright, I'll consider that, thank you!

fringe pawn
#

50/50 is a decent proposal. You can't eliminate the use of one or the other.

#

The alt recipes for fused modular frames and turbo motors (by way of requiring packaged nitrogen) can use aluminum ingots, so be prepared to potentially divert some ingots, too.

fierce ruin
#

So; I have continued a bit my test on the back up on full mk5 belts (following tests on the effect of belt lenght vs number of belts showing that number of belt was the most important factor). And my conclusion is: belt/belt connection seem to be the problem, as found before. Belt lenght doesn't seem to play a major role, belt connected with splitter/merger don't have too much problem.
For the detail of how i tested that: i put 8 belts lines, of 50 belt segments each that end up in a sink; to feed them, i have a mk3 miner mining 780 ingot/min, feeding an ISC then the belt line. To check for back up, i simply look if the ISC fills up or no.
For my first 4 belt lines, i have just belt/belt connection, with belts of size: 4m, 5m, 6m, 8m. I observe an important back up, even before ore reach the sink. Some back up a bit quicker than other, but they are all on the same order (about 10, maybe 20% difference).
For the last 4, i have them connected to splitter or merger; with a space between them of 4, 6, 7 or 8m (creating 2, 4, 5, 6m belts between them). I don't observe major back up during game; but i see about 10 item backup when loading the game. To test that i first filled completly the belt (as splitter act as buffer, i want them full to notice the problem) then turning the sink, and no backup was noticed after a short while (a bit at first, because buffer were too full to run smoothly directly, but that was ok quickly). No real difference was observed between the 4 tests; they all get about the same amount of ore on each load, and no backup overwise.
So my conclusion is: if you want to use full belt, specially mk5: limit connection between 2 belts, they are problematic. And splitter/merger (probably also ISC) between each belt seem to reduce the problem greatly (to a problem that occurs just each time you load the game, and not all the time during game).

#

And now i'm starting to investigate flow issue in a full mk2 pipe (but for now, i wasn't able to reproduce the problem).

fringe pawn
#

MK4 belts are fine to go belt to belt? I have my pure node MK3 miners feed straight to an ISC, which then splits to two multi-segment MK4 belt chains. Though I suppose I'm not coming close to needing the 960 theoretical bandwidth in this case.

#

Clarification, the long chains are MK4 still because I was too lazy to upgrade them.

fierce ruin
#

During previous tests i was able to see problem even with a mk1 full belt; but it's much smaller (i had to put way more belt to even notice it, and the effect was slow). So i guess it exists with all belts; but it become more significant with fast belt. (ps: i edited the last message a lot, half of it was cut at first)

#

And if you don't use a full belt, the belt should be able to deal with that kind of back up on its own

frosty owl
#

They just package-unpackage fluids in loop

fierce ruin
#

sure, i will give it a look if you have the link (and if you want my test setup for mk5 belts to do some other test yourself, i can also give it)

sullen cloud
#

@fierce ruin what’s the FPS in that test save?

fierce ruin
#

it was ok, but not great

#

i didn't check the exact numbers

sullen cloud
#

But no clean save? Test within an existing save?

fierce ruin
#

yes, but not a huge save (the idea was to have something that can be close to what we experience in a normal game, with some loss in FPS)

#

i also played a bit around that at a time (mainly by using my CPU for some other things at the same time. I'm not sure if it really changed anything).

frosty owl
#

(No cost cheat might be off, check on SCIM)

#

It's a clean test save, so don't expect building materials lying around~

fierce ruin
#

the problem is just to feed a manifold, not necessary for transporting fluid ?

tough pulsar
#

Quick question - how does power and under-fueled machines work? If I have a machine that I expect will be running at 50%, is it more power effective to actually underclock it, or will it consume the same amount from only running half the time?

fierce ruin
#

underclock will be better

#

power consumption isn't linear with underclock, and for exemple, 2 machines at 50% underclock all the time will consume less 1 at 100%

shadow prairieBOT
#

You can find the wiki here clock speed
<3 @bleak coral

Official Satisfactory Wiki

This is the totally awesome community driven wiki for Satisfactory!! Come on in and check it out!

bleak coral
#

ohp wrong command lol

#

!wikisearch clock speed

shadow prairieBOT
bleak coral
#

I really wish this wouldn't embed, it's way too big

fringe pawn
#

Oof. And it's a bot so you can't manually delete after.

bleak coral
#

nope, so that one is just there taking up space :/

frosty owl
#

The setup should be easy to modify and expand upon πŸ‘

fierce ruin
#

for belt, the problem was really transportation on large distance, i wonderer if it was the same for pipe, or just a manifold problem (i kinda usually expect problem on pipe manifold anyway)

frosty owl
#

Ah, I think it's on the manifold part. That save is purely to test on manifold, no long distance pipes there

topaz hedge
fringe pawn
topaz hedge
#

all that's gonna run on 7.2 fuel rods? o.o

#

I guess maybe it would. it's only going to use like 100GW lol

fringe pawn
#

The tiny numbers at the endstage of nuclear fuel production are amusing.

#

I'll be overclocking many machines to push power use closer to the limit, I have over 1,000 shards.

fringe pawn
#

I thought about switching to iron wire. But 305+ constructors for iron wire versus 38+ for caterium wire.

proven heron
#

whats is the efficient smeltery?

terse otter
#

Efficiency is based on recipes. You'll find alternative methods to craft things from hard drives littered around the map

fringe pawn
#

Excellent. Processing my uranium waste creates 72 water. And making the required sulfuric acid for that process requires 72 water. If I package 72 containers of sulfuric acid to bootstrap the system, is it balanced indefinitely?

glacial hemlock
#

Lol yes? But actually no

#

Most recipes require more than 1m3 of water to be kickstarted (if they involve water).

bleak coral
#

It'd be more reliable to have a small buffer filled with water and valves so it doesn't backflow to kickstart the process, and make sure it doesn't stop as the recycled water gets back. Each machine takes a few seconds to start up again once it's stopped, which can keep a recycled loop with no fresh water like that from ever reaching equilibrium.

fringe pawn
#

Hm. I also need to worry about occasional doggo uranium waste, which would throw the system out of balance. What I'll do is hook the uranium waste processing directly to a wet concrete factory that's out of the main water network.

frosty owl
#

You could leave the processing of the extra waste to a production making rods for sinking with the easiest alts~

fringe pawn
#

It would be amusing to simply allow my doggos to roam around my nuclear facility, but I wouldn't want to suit up and travel there every time I want to look for slugs.

bleak coral
#

or just throw the uranium waste in the waste storage, I mean doggo waste is not that much I'm sure you could spare a slot or two

fringe pawn
#

Also a good point

frosty owl
fringe pawn
#

Does the overall range for radiation damage increase? Or is it always a fixed range but higher intensity based on the quantity and strength of the materials?

frosty owl
#

Range and damage both increase, based on amount and radioactivity of items

fringe pawn
#

Ooh, wiki page has some nice examples

calm gale
#

btw just wondering but speaking of nuclear stuff is it actually needed or no?

fringe pawn
#

No

calm gale
#

sweet cause i really dont like nuclear stuff lol

frosty owl
calm gale
frosty owl
#

Naturally, that's all there is before nuclear :P
But considering some machines use up to ||1.5 GW each||, trying to reach endgame with just those can be... quite laborious

calm gale
#

ikf it means me not having to deal with radiation then challenge accepted

#

heck ill even throw in biomass just cause lol

frosty owl
#

Why so scared of radiation?

calm gale
#

because of reasons outside of this game

frosty owl
#

Well, hope that won't turn out in you cussing at the game for not giving you enough power πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ
Fuel and coal are really laborious after all (though I admit I'm not a fan of those either, especially coal)

calm gale
#

well till they add in a better setup for radiation yea no lol

frosty owl
#

A better setup for radiation?
... Like hazmat suite mk2 or what o.O

calm gale
#

hazmat suit + jetpack + gasmask in 1

frosty owl
#

AFAIK, that'll be possible only with mods. Devs didn't seem to like that too much

calm gale
#

well hopefully the devs changev their minds

#

that or add in more body slots

fringe pawn
#

Once you have the required recipes, just look for any location where you can bring oil, sulfur, and water together.

calm gale
#

thats difficult enough when taking sulfur over 2000m lol

#

also i got diluted so idk if that will change my outputs from 2x 240 nodes and 2x 120 nodes

glacial hemlock
calm gale
glacial hemlock
#

Lol, yeah, nuclear setup can be stunning at first. Until you get used to it.

calm gale
#

its not just nuclear thats an issue its also the gassers

glacial hemlock
#

Gass and radiation usually won't happen to be at the same place (unless you make it)

calm gale
#

not in the exact same area no but in the same region ive seen tons of radiation spots and gassers

terse otter
#

The trick I think is to focus on sectioning off the radiation. Pick a remote spot to be where all your radiation work will be done, build the whole structure, then let the radioactive materials in and leave the structure alone until needed

fringe pawn
#

Eh, screw it, switching to iron wire in my plans. 160 constructors at 250%, whee!

fringe pawn
#

Possibly in the -5 HP zone for extra kicks.

terse otter
#

Not gonna sink it?

fringe pawn
#

I'll set a smart splitter to accept overflow if the containers fill, so that the radiation never reaches shore.

#

I'm using Greeny's calculator from update 2, but I assume the underlying formula is the same. Plutonium rods are twice as radioactive, and therefore I just need to input double the potential number of uranium rods? If so, a 10x10x10 cube of containers filled with plutonium rods (2.4 million!) would need about 500 meters of distance from shore. That's actually not so bad.

#

My underlying reactor setup would produce 1.6 rods per minute. Which would require 25,000 hours of runtime (almost 3 years). So if I fill that, I've probably become some sort of time traveler πŸ˜›

bleak coral
#

There was some confusion when update 4 dropped of whether the radioactivity formulas changed, or if it was just because some of the radioactivity numbers changed on items. As far as I know no one has double checked if everything is still the same.

Also we don't know the radioactivity number for plutonium waste at all. Not even relatively to anything else.

fringe pawn
#

I want to put a sign on the containers:
☒️ ☠️ If you can read this, you are too close ☠️ ☒️

fringe pawn
#

Huh. I'm going to need to have a single constructor somewhere in my system just to have screws for build gun items. Opting for steeled frame and steel rotor.

wind spade
#

copper rotor ftw

bleak coral
#

but screws!

fringe pawn
#

I think copper rotor versus steel rotor are probably a wash on total machines

wind spade
#

it's the only justfiable use of screws πŸ˜‰

bleak coral
#

I wonder what's more efficient: copper rotor + steel screws or steel rotor + iron wire

wind spade
#

well my site says it's copper rotor

#

(resource efficient with weighted raw resources)

bleak coral
#

yeah but it'd also use steel rods -> normal screws route

#

which is the way of madness πŸ˜›

fringe pawn
bleak coral
#

it's slightly more resource efficient than steel screws, but it's also a lot more machines and doesn't let you make screws 1:1 with machines and transport steel ingots instead like steel screws does

fringe pawn
#

As I refine my final plan it also has me using rigour motor which seems odd.

bleak coral
#

turbo motor best recipe gets.... weird as you approach resource limits, cause you start running into different walls of rare resources and the calculator is trying to get you around them in an efficient way

fringe pawn
#

Rigour for basic, actually, and electric for turbo.

bleak coral
#

oh, hmmm I've never really looked at those, but there's a few recipes that add oscillators that are actually resource efficient, but people don't like cause they don't like making oscillators

wind spade
#

hey the tool is trying, can't blame it πŸ˜„

fringe pawn
#

Eh, screws and rods can be cut without much trouble, but there are way more tradeoffs if you cut oscillators, to my eyes.

bleak coral
fringe pawn
#

I'm liking the switch to rigour. Switching to a manufacturer isn't ideal, but even at a glance that part efficiency is really good. The caterium consumption from oscillators was my lingering concern.

#

I think I'm good. Just going to check RCU alts.

#

Switching to iron wire hurt, but not as much once I forced quickwire stator.

#

There's a 10% planned excess with space elevator parts. The actual machine quantities at that end will numbered such to make 5:5:20:20, and the excess system parts collected by drones to be taken to a warehouse, so that every non-radioactive item in the game is within easy reach. I figure the included battery production should allow even an excessive number of drones.

glacial hemlock
#

I could remember that default rotor should be the most resource efficient

fierce ruin
#

it's what is written on the wiki, if we considered weigthed points as ressource efficient; but i think there is a mistake. My calculation give about 50% more iron consumption (and so weigthed point) than the wiki particulary for rotor with main recipe (and when i do that for other recipes it works well, i just have a problem for this one).

terse otter
#

It doesn't mention the alt recipe for rods is being used

#

Which is hugely more efficient, and makes a lot of default recipes the best option.

fierce ruin
#

that would put copper rotor with lower weighted point (but considering the amount of copper needed late game, main rotor have still its use instead of copper rotor)

#

what one alt rod recipe ? steel rod ?

terse otter
#

Yeah

fierce ruin
#

no, math don't check out with that either (recipe is written as consuming just 207.69 iron ore and no coal)

terse otter
#

Hmm, I guess something has to be up with it either way then, since that's technically the better option, in terms of the "WP"

fierce ruin
#

my point is that, it's written that way on the wiki, but it's not true

terse otter
#

I wonder what the calc is for steel rod + screws using steel rod.

fierce ruin
#

i will check that

#

should be 45,01WP: 60,58 iron, 112,5 coal for 60 rotor.

bleak coral
#

it specifies it uses default iron rods and cast screws as the recipe choices, though I'm unsure why steel rods are not preferred

#

but also the copper use on the recipe is wrong, it should be using 48 copper not 140 copper on copper rotors, cause it should be using the pure recipes for both

#

so that's wrong

#

both copper ingots and sheets I mean

fierce ruin
#

with default rod, WP should be 51,64

bleak coral
#

oh wait I got it mixed up, it does list 48 copper, and 140 iron, nevermind

#

yup, that iron count is too low

fierce ruin
#

yes, for copper rotor i have the same result as the wiki (i made my own calculation for every parts, and the only one i have a big problem with is default rotor)

#

for some calculation, they use only best weighted point recipe from "lowest tier" item, and for some they use less optimal recipe, but the math allways check out with one of the other method

bleak coral
#

I still say it should be done with screws made with steel rod -> normal or steel screws, cast screws are only convenient early game. Late game convenience is steel screws and late game efficiency is steel rods -> normal

fierce ruin
#

for iron rod and plate (and probably some others) the wiki tend to use default recipe, even though they are listed are non optimal according to WP.

bleak coral
#

it's usually when the difference is small, and it adds a rarer resource

#

like quickwire cable is an example where I agree with that, I just don't think that's a reasonable thing with rods/screws cause they have power/space benefits too

fierce ruin
#

yes, and as iron is everywhere, and you can more easily miss other ressources where you build it make sense using only iron for these parts for calculation

bleak coral
#

I just don't think adding a bit of coal is a big deal, not like caterium or quartz or something

#

coal is literally the 3rd most common resource, there's more coal than copper

glacial hemlock
fierce ruin
#

pure iron, but if someone want to check my math i'm good with that (if someone confirm, we can correct the wiki)

glacial hemlock
#

I will recheck the WP calculation for rotor if theres a mistake

bleak coral
#

and pure iron ingot

fierce ruin
#

yes, that what i have.

#

and i just checked, for motor calculations, math check out with using normal rotor recipe, and check out with the 51,64WP for normal rotor i have.

glacial hemlock
#

Yes it is possible that the iron ore was miscalculated.

#

I guess that is a gg moment for me. Time to redo all affected downstream items. (Until turbo motor)

bleak coral
#

oof

fierce ruin
glacial hemlock
#

Phew. That's a good news.

#

But if copper rotor has better WP, i will have to replace the recipe path for those items nonetheless

bleak coral
#

also why did you choose cast screws? if you were gonna break from WP why not do steel screws? was it just cause you're avoiding using coal?

glacial hemlock
#

If the WP gain is negligible and introduces rarer resources, then the next recipe with 2nd lowest WP will be picked. I will re-evaluate on this

fierce ruin
glacial hemlock
bleak coral
#

oh I found another, it's low impact though. The WP was calculated wrong on the quickwire cable, the caterium was severely undervalued. It just reinforces what you already did though and makes iron wire -> cable the least WP. And I don't think any of the numbers besides WP change so there doesn't need to be a new image. And it was already not being used.

fringe pawn
#

I may try to do half caterium cable and half iron.

bleak coral
#

why?

fringe pawn
#

I'm trying to stay within the NW corner. I could push down the Western shore a little bit and grab a third pure node, though.

#

Otherwise I'm only using 2 normal and 2 pure.

bleak coral
#

quickwire cable needs oil anyway, so might as well just go get more iron, or do you already have spare oil coming in?

fringe pawn
#

Spare oil, yeah

#

Limiting myself to the Western wells that produce up to 1800 total, but I'll be good at 1440 (200% clocks on each well).

bleak coral
#

just use coated or adhered then if you don't want to bring in more iron

#

don't waste the caterium, especially if you're not using fused quickwire

fringe pawn
#

Yep, using steel coated plate, plastic smart plate, adhered, etc.

bleak coral
#

no I mean coated or adhered cable, since you're making cable and you say you have some spare oil but not enough iron

#

sorry coated or insulated not adhered

fringe pawn
#

I'm... apparently not using cable anywhere?

#

For now fused quickwire is definitely in the plan, though.

bleak coral
#

oh I thought we were talking about cable, not wire, my bad

fringe pawn
#

This was good, though. Now a random cable factory is on my list of things I'll still need for the build gun, along with rods and screws.

fringe pawn
#

I'll also be attempting the HOR recycling loop for the first time. Is there a guide updated for Update 4? Google is failing to find me anything current. Or is it just a straightforward game of feeding the plastic and rubber right back into the system, with overflow splitters dumping the profits?

swift robin
#

apparently u dont even need a smart splitter for recycled recipes. you just split the output in half and send one half back to be recycled

fringe pawn
#

That makes sense. I guess the residual rubber is throwing off the symmetry in my current scenario.

#

So what I need to do is feed the residual rubber into the recycled plastic to start with. It's not an end product like the image led me to believe at first?

#

Wait. No. The polymer resin is excess, the system should be self-sustaining once it's boostrapped? Therefore I get 1 plastic or 1 rubber for every 1 fuel I insert into the system?

granite jasper
#

The recycled recipes effectively turn 1 fuel into 1 plastic or rubber, yes/

fierce ruin
#

yes, as long as you send enough plastic/rubber back in the system to let it work, you will be able to output 1 plastic/rubber for each fuel

wind spade
#

plus if you include the PR byproduct, it makes 9 rubber per 8 fuel

glacial hemlock
#

Quickwire cable and rotor? Hmm. I will check both

fringe pawn
#

I think I'm going to treat every 10 resin as 1 rubber and 1 plastic. For my purposes this amounts to 1440 crude turning into 1200 coke, 760 resin, and 3040 fuel. Therefore, 1558 each of rubber and plastic?

glacial hemlock
#

Huh?

fierce ruin
#

840 resin according to your graph; and 1724 of plastic and rubber

glacial hemlock
#

You either converts 1 oil into 3 rubber or 3 plastic. But never both or mixed

#

For resin only build, it is much more difficult to calculate because it may or may not missed out the diluted loop

restive shell
#

Hey I have a question. I have 27 coal generators I already connected the water to them but how much coal would I need to bring to them to work properly?

eager solar
#

120 coal/min is 8 coal gens and 3 water extractors (assuming buildings at normal clocking), I'd say build you coal gens according to the coal available rather than the reverse

#

numbers should be easier

#

27 coal gens at 100% would be 405 coal/min

frosty pawn
#

better to change it so you have 24 or 32 gens so you would need multiples of 8 gens and 120 coal (mk2 belt) for each group of 8... or you could just add 1 coal gen to make 28 which would require 420 coal (3x mk2 + 1x mk1)

#

each group of 8 generators would need 3 water extractors

eager solar
#

you can also do by units of 4 coal gens with underclocking if it happens to fit better

noble plinth
#

Anyone know how many 2 pure 1 impure oil goes into rubber and plastic then the run off going into petroleum coke?

#

I’m dumb with numbers

fierce ruin
#

it depend on what recipe you use; oil production changes a lot with alts

eager solar
#

don't have the numbers and I'm a bit too lazy anyway but it would depends on the miners, the available belts and the alts used

#

and clocking

frosty pawn
#

oil extractor is like mk2 miner so impure gives 60/min or if you overclock to 250% it's 150/min

noble plinth
#

Okay thank you

frosty pawn
#

2 pure and 1 impure is 240+240+60=540
if you overclock all of them to 250% it's 600+600+150=1350

noble plinth
#

Shit that’s a lot of oil

wraith hazel
eager solar
#

it's greeny's tool that you can find in #welcome

fringe pawn
wind spade
fierce ruin
#

that's strange. But you can just ask for 1780 rubber and plastic, 1140 coke and it will do what you want

wind spade
#

you need to use items/min for raw resource optimisation

fringe pawn
#

What is the max option looking for?

wind spade
#

just max πŸ˜„

#

doesn't care about the path it takes

#

it's something I'm working on (in addition to like 20 other things)

fringe pawn
#

Gotcha 🍻

bleak coral
#

rule of thumb for now is take whatever number max gets and put it into items/min

fringe pawn
#

Did anyone see that goofball several hours ago? Complaining about getting banned from a modding server, and how everyone is mean to them just for asking help? Yet here I am n00bing it up and getting clear answers on my dumb questions in moments πŸ˜›

wind spade
#

there's like one person like that every day/week

fringe pawn
#

Probably the same person under a different alias.

bleak coral
#

I'm wary of anyone who ends their stuff with Help! or some variation thereof

#

some people get real emotional and entitled when asking for help πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

fringe pawn
#

I feel conflicted about treating isolated people like that by banning/muting them because it probably just sends them into a worse spiral. But not our problem.

bleak coral
#

and not like in a panicking because they're not understanding kind of way, but like angry for some reason

magic shadow
#

oh god was it iceman11a

bleak coral
#

yeah

#

what did he do?

magic shadow
#

@hardy sundial fyi

bleak coral
#

are all three of those accounts him?

magic shadow
#

he wants to mod, and hasn't followed the docs properly for years, and still doesn't understand what's gone wrong

hardy sundial
#

Let me find Dean's message on the subject, he does a great round-up of the guy

bleak coral
#

oh man that's always the worst, people who just won't read shit

#

I don't know why people like that even play a game that's 90% read shit and plan

fringe pawn
hardy sundial
#

His attitude was awful, couldn't/wouldn't learn, argued against advice he'd asked for (WHAT!!?) and assumed he knew, which made every question an accusation of failure in docs/setup... anything. Absolutely no sense of personal responsibility.

magic shadow
hardy sundial
#

He was also not doing what we were asking of him, then saying he did do it

#

A real nightmare

bleak coral
#

are all these him? it's weird to me when people have multiple accounts on the same server

Screenshot_116.png
magic shadow
#

yes

hardy sundial
#

He's not exactly tech savvy, probably created new accounts when losing another one

fringe pawn
#

I think we all know the type. They operate using assumptions about how they think things should work, instead of how they actually work. Sort of. Meanwhile the rest of us do our best Tarly: read the book, and follow the directions.

magic shadow
#

what happened to him here?

#

oh he started boomer ranting

bleak coral
#

he started complaining and spanky was on, who has 0 patience for that kind of stuff, so it hit a brick wall real fast lol

magic shadow
#

charming

fierce ruin
#

hehe

fringe pawn
#

Now that I see there's a history, I'm going to happily just grab popcorn each time they appear.

magic shadow
#

@weary ravine just so ya know ^^

fierce ruin
#

I always read his name as front german then I realized it was frontier man πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ

magic shadow
#

a for effort

fringe pawn
#

Okay, combined with everything I've learned, I think the best option on my mass production planner will be to set crude access to 0, but experiment allowing raw plastic/rubber inputs of either 1700 or 999999. That'll nicely declutter the view.

fringe pawn
#

That's what I should do for my caterium, iron, and copper ingot production, too, now that I think about it. All those water links are nice to remove.

fringe pawn
#

Are there any tips to manipulate water links to declutter a large worksheet? The wastewater from my aluminum production is going to 4 different places, for instance.

fringe pawn
#

9 alu ingot foundries at 250% plus 60 pure ingot smelters. That'll make for a nice 3 level structure. Utilizing spare quartz.

#

Credit to everyone here for helping me plan my aluminum factory that will need only minimal reconfiguration as I add 2 more ore nodes and get fiddly with a foundry+smelter array for ingots.

wind spade
fringe pawn
#

I've got so many lines going into my wet concrete factory, I need to check it for spiders πŸ˜›

#

hides from bad joke rule

wind spade
#

you can doubleclick nodes to fade nodes and arrows

#

if that helps

#

however you can't doubleclick just arrows

sand epoch
#

wish you could do that for the spokes..

fringe pawn
#

I've eliminated most of them by setting an ingot production to take away many water buildings. It's made each remaining water building an amusing little web. I find dragging wet concrete and the like to the outside works fine for me.

bleak coral
cloud monolith
#

Observing some weird behavior in my factory:
producing 780 screws/min. -> buffer-container -> using 774 screws/min.
What I expect: Container fills with 6 screws/min.
What I observe: Container is drained by ~3 screws/min.
Any suggestions, where to troubleshoot EXCEPT checking if all belts are actually mark 5 and all numbers actually match?

#

Even the satisfactory calculator says, my numbers should check out:

CropperCapture1.png
bleak coral
#

Are you using both outputs of the container?

cloud monolith
#

No, only 1 input and 1 output.

fierce ruin
#

how many fps are you getting?

cloud monolith
#

I added the container only to troubleshoot...

cloud monolith
fierce ruin
#

` then stat fps

terse otter
#

Belts break slightly at max throughput.

bleak coral
#

below 60fps belts aren't fully reliable at full throughput, most notable with mk5 belts, though 774 should be safe especially if you're overfeeding it

wind spade
bleak coral
#

because it doesn't use the polymer resin with the maximize function, it's actually making less rubber and plastic than it can from that amount of oil

#

so it's not finding the max

wind spade
#

I mean, can you send link?

bleak coral
cloud monolith
fierce ruin
#

60+ should be enough according to snutt

terse otter
#

The main fix is to never put a belt at max throughput

cloud monolith
#

Funny thing though: My guess is, that it's the screw-usage, that's higher than calculated. Why? Because it never backlogs on the belts, even though it should only use 774...

fierce ruin
#

if you want to check if the belt is the problem, put a container at the start of the belt (just after merging to 780part/min), and see if it fill or not

wind spade
bleak coral
#

oh huh interesting, it does get fixed if you delete the coke

cloud monolith
wind spade
#

something I also want to fix in v2

bleak coral
#

oh I get it, that 190 resin it's missing is from the coke part

#

like it doesn't see that resource when it does the maximize, just the raw resources leftover

fierce ruin
cloud monolith
#

Well, production seems to be as I calculated... (I also double-checked in-game)

CropperCapture1.png
#

I guess belts simply become more and more unreliable if fully utilized.

fringe pawn
#

Treat pure ore nodes as 770 max and you'll be fine.

fierce ruin
#

yes, but as i said, that can be tested with a storage container just at the begining of the belt, and it should fill a bit if you belt is too full (but a container in the end of the belt won't fill)

cloud monolith
#

But I just made another interesting observation: When I remove some parts of the MK5 belts and elevators between the machines and replace these parts with (shorter) spaghetti, it works. This is so weird.

fierce ruin
#

number of belt is the main problem that make you loose some throughput when playing with full belts. if you limit the number of belt it should be better (well, that's a bit of a simplification: belt/belt connection are the problem, if you connect them just with merger/splitter it also should be better).

cloud monolith
#

Interesting... is there somewhere more detailed information about this?

fierce ruin
#

i posted some testing i made on the subject yesterday or so; i will try to find that again

cloud monolith
#

I'll test it too by adding a bunch of splitters inbetween belts.

#

Thank you (all) so far!

fierce ruin
opal fulcrum
#

I'm setting up my steel factory and trying to set up beams and rods. I've got 600 ingots to feed 12 constructors with 6 inputs running at 60/m and 6 running at 40/pm. I've tried different solutions to balance but think I can only get close to it and rely on an overflow method to make it work. Anyone got a solution before I subdue to overflow?

fierce ruin
#

the easy solution is a manyfold (and i guess it's what you call overflow). You want a perfect balancer ? the easy way to cheat that would be to use splitter with mk2 belt going out to force 120/min on your belts, so you will get 5 belts at 120/min, quite easy to split into 60 or 40/min

opal fulcrum
#

i was only working with mk1 belts coming out of the splitters, throwing 60's everywhere lol. The mk2 belts will work perfectly. Thank you!

fringe pawn
#

Have one single belt loop around all constructors. Have a splitter feed each machine from the loop. Arrange your foundries such that they're spitting out ingots in 6 equal streams, and feed the input loop for your constructors in 6 spaced out locations with mergers.

#

All ingots will now continuously circle all machines until they find one that's not backed up.

#

Also, unlock MK3 belts ASAP with your steel production. Invest in a good steel beam factory, and never use anything less than an MK3 belt again. Huge QOL buff.

opal fulcrum
#

I've just boxed off the foundries last night after upgrading all its belts, not really planning on pulling it back apart just yet although the 6 equal streams would be easy enough to sort

opal fulcrum
fringe pawn
#

With MK5 you could get away with one input feed if you want. Spacing out the input streams equalizes things more quickly, but ultimately the system will saturate either way.

opal fulcrum
#

I'd have to work with 2 mk4 feeds into the loop for now as I've not fully automated aluminium yet, sorta forced it for the need of mk5 in some places. Think I'll try the splitter method first though cos it's more like the other balance systems I've got going. Might try the loop once I get automated aluminium

fringe pawn
#

2xMK4 will still be plenty, you're good to go with either option

frosty owl
#

60/min inputs make even manifolds act like balancers hehe

umbral harbor
#

I've thought of doing an experiment, but haven't been able to tear myself away from factory building. I was thinking about what's the most efficient belt splitting system. So far I have 4 ideas. I have;

Perfect Splitting

Manifolds

Smart Manifolds

Buffered Manifolds

I haven't messed around with load balancing in a long time, but I guess that'd be under perfect splitting. Off the top of my head, perfect splitting is best for keeping everything running at 100% efficiency with a fairly even ramp time, but takes the longest to set up, as well as takes the most space. Manifolds are the simplest, but take the longest to ramp. Smart Manifolds take slightly more time to set up, and ramp slightly faster, but also ramp much more evenly. Lastly, Buffered Manifolds I haven't messed with for a long time yet, but they seem to be kind of a last step where they take the longest to set-up, and likely ramp the fastest, but not nearly as fast as load balancing.

I've thought of setting up a scenario where I run a basic version off all 4 at once and time how long it takes for the last machine in the line to hit 100% efficiency. Anyone have any insight on this?

#

I got the idea for buffered Manifolds when I set up my battery factory, cause I was using fluid buffers to make sure various machines didn't jam, and thought I'd use a version of that for belts, and I liked how it worked.

frosty owl
#

"Efficient belt splitting" I'm unclear on what you mean by that thinking_helmet
I personally go for load balancing since I like the look of it and hate ramping up times (I dont like to see belts backing up)

umbral harbor
#

The efficiency there is ramp time and power usage, along with set-up time.

frosty owl
#

How does power factor into belting? O.o

drowsy flicker
#

Gotta go for that clean flat-line power usage

umbral harbor
#

When belts back up, various buildings will jam, which means they'll turn on and off, which leads to a fluctuating power grid

frosty owl
#

Though, with how overclock has now 4 digits, I usually try to OC machines so they have 30, 60 or 120/min inputs, making balancing very simple if not trivial (with 60 or 120/min you can merge "perfect splitting" and "smart manifolding")

drowsy flicker
#

My Brain still hurts when I do 3 Output to 5 Input but I'm doing my best.

frosty owl
frosty owl
umbral harbor
drowsy flicker
#

Once you're messing with 10000MWs, a Constructor turning on and off is barely a blip, it takes many to show.

frosty owl
frosty owl
umbral harbor
terse otter
#

Why the storage container?

#

Oh, I see.

frosty owl
#

That's just a manifold with a storage though...
If you wanna cut down on manifold fill time, you should add more containers to help fill up the mid-points of the manifold (unless it's very far from belt capacity)

fringe pawn
#

The input lines generally come from buffer ISCs. In general I have a buffer ISC at every step.

cloud shard
#

has anyone worked out the math if it's worth it to cut screws from the production chain for all recipes, materially min-maxing-wise?

fringe pawn
#

You're gonna need to define "worth it."

terse otter
#

That sounds a little too specific to be a generally true statement either way. Aren't there some that need screws regardless?

frosty owl
#

I'm pretty sure you can cut them out completely

frosty owl
fringe pawn
#

I've got my worlds current and planned production in different worksheets with Greeny's tool. The only uses for screws are in some legacy systems that I will eventually destroy so I can enjoy the nice scenery.

drowsy flicker
#

When Screws are efficient don't forget to use Steel Screws and only create screws on site, hopefully right next to the building that needs em

terse otter
#

Making steel Rotors?

frosty owl
fringe pawn
#

Steel rotor and adhered plate are the big places to cut screws I think. But those aren't undisputed 'best' recipes.

cloud shard
terse otter
#

At a glance, it seems like rotors are the weak link in removing screws from everything

drowsy flicker
#

Are you telling me Steel Rods into Screws is better? πŸ‘€

frosty owl
#

Resource-wise, yes

cloud shard
#

I am curious what those recipes are tho