math-and-meta

[tight mortar]

Perfect, thank you so much

[loud heron]

It only needs Fuel, HOR, Sulfur, and Petrol Coke

Petrol Coke is just HOR iirc

[muted crypt]

I would assume it's not, but we also get pure recipes starting as soon as we use water, so

[loud heron]

So no need to combine sulfur and coal together

[bleak coral]

according to the wiki it just needs the first sulfur research and bauxite refinement

[loud heron]

For the sulfur tree and aluminum for the blender

So yeah, no Compacted needed

[tight mortar]

So then you need at least teir 7?

[muted crypt]

you need to have the blender accessible to you

that goes for both diluted fuel (not the packaged one) and for turbo blend fuel

[bleak coral]

@oblique hollow re: conversations about instant scrap, I forgot that sulfur could also be used for steel with compacted steel because I hate that recipe so much lol

[oblique hollow]

I guess we found a new recipe that uses sulfur to demonize xd

[bleak coral]

oh I'm way ahead on that lol

[oblique hollow]

Tbh i hate compacted coal too

Its an alt but also feels like a non- alt

[bleak coral]

I have a good metaphor for it: using compacted coal for steel is like saving on copper costs for wiring your house by using gold instead.

[oblique hollow]

Its one of those alts that could use an alt itself

[wind spade]

*caterium

[oblique hollow]

Use SAM for wires

[bleak coral]

yeah I guess you could say the same thing, but not be metaphorical, about Fused Wire

[oblique hollow]

Daniel vs the cooler Daniel

[wind spade]

fused wire is the best

[muted crypt]

that's another good comparison

[bleak coral]

fused quickwire is the best, fused wire is situational at best

[oblique hollow]

Its the quick that matters

[bleak coral]

add compacted coal to the sulfur tree? that feels right actually

[wind spade]

I just realised I only posted 3 memes in #satisfactory-memes

need to step up my game a bit

[bleak coral]

also increase its energy, I want to stop telling people to not use compacted coal in coal factories

it's a good urge, and a cool idea, until you run the numbers

[oblique hollow]

Yeah definitely. Turbo is the only alt that needs an alt

Its like an alter alt

[bleak coral]

I wouldn't mind turbo in the sulfur tree either

honestly, yeah, put them both there, they're not alts they're new items!

and then you can properly lock them behind certain stages of progression

@oblique hollow when you edited the hard drive page I think you edited an earlier one and undid some stuff

[oblique hollow]

Oh, really? Damn

[bleak coral]

yeah I'd already gotten rid of all the EX tags like two days ago

[oblique hollow]

Ah, oop. Well, can you copy my change and add it to the new one?

[bleak coral]

I just undid the edit, what were you trying to add?

[oblique hollow]

I moved the instant scrap recipe from "useless" to "situationally useful" and changed the description of it

[bleak coral]

Do you want me to do that? Or do you just want to do it again now?

[oblique hollow]

I added it near the very bottom of the situational recipes. Im not on my pc rn and i will NOT dare to make edits on mobile xd

It'd be real great if you could readd it for me

[loud heron]

If I'm using Sam for wires it better be like 1 ingot for 500

[oblique hollow]

1 for 0.1 xd

[muted crypt]

well we don't know if SAM is going to be an ingot, it's just inferred by the name being an acronym for "Strange Alien Metal"

[loud heron]

I'm just waiting for Sam to have some omega God tier use

[muted crypt]

grey goo, let it become anything

[bleak coral]

@oblique hollow slightly modified it, this sound good:

Although it requires Sulfur, its bauxite efficiency is tied with using both Sloppy Alumina and Electrode Aluminum Scrap for most efficient. Also increases power but decreases number of machines. Also allows for a slightly more simple setup than one using Alumina Solution; can setup the Sulfuric Acid 1:1 with the Instant Scrap Blenders.

[muted crypt]

just having higher amounts needed to make a more complex part

[loud heron]

If it's anything like the old stuff, its gunna be good

[oblique hollow]

Sounds good!

[loud heron]

I'd love some Teleporters actually.

[muted crypt]

if I had to take any guess at all, it might have some use with the parts we got as teasers with FICSMAS

[loud heron]

Get around the map quickly.

[muted crypt]

tooltip description of them in game

[loud heron]

Ah

[muted crypt]

meant to spoiler it, mb

[loud heron]

Then yeah it'll be cool

Make some Teleporters, maybe some like instant transmission freight.

[oblique hollow]

Telepoorter

[oblique isle]

A crystal? Hmm. I think sam ore might be involved.

[loud heron]

Send something into one box, it teleport into another box

[oblique hollow]

Everything is SAM magic

[loud heron]

Would be great

Alternatively, SAM could be reinfused into nuclear waste to make it useful or something.

Final tier is just using SAM to go to the food court.

[muted crypt]

My take on how that could work is something like ||a conveyor lift that connects via a specific signal (denoted by some kind of decimal system) and specifying load/unload, connecting machines/containers together "wirelessly"||

[loud heron]

I'm now curious about the use of Sam ore primarily because we're on version 0.4

If 0.5 or 0.6 is next tier, or they really delay SAM to 1.0 like they said

I dunno what we'll have in the meantime.

[muted crypt]

inb4 Satisfactory becomes an idle game and SAM ore is used for resetting with bonuses

[loud heron]

Coffee has yet to give us any real time line for launch, much less next update

Which they hope is before end of year.

[muted crypt]

weren't they saying they wanted to also try something before their vacations?

[loud heron]

If they did, it'll be something small.

My guess.

[muted crypt]

define small

maybe not whole new tiers, but... train rework, and any drone changes they wanted to make?

[loud heron]

Something for UI or QoL

[loud heron]

This sounds good

[muted crypt]

I can see the round trip time being calculable for trains in their UI similar to how it is now with drones.

[loud heron]

I'd also like the UI update to change fuels for jetpacks

[muted crypt]

that's not UI, that's QoL lol

[loud heron]

They mentioned in a dev update it's limited by their UI layer

[muted crypt]

oh interesting

[loud heron]

Cause they don't got a window or menu system that can do it atm.

For selecting fuels

But yeah I'd love a train and drone QoL for calculating estimated throughput

Assuming you unload an entire freight station in time for the next batch.

[frozen jolt]

if there's anything in this game that's mathematically and functionally confusing me, it's liquids. like when it says it produces 6 fuel is it 6 units or 6 m^3?

[muted crypt]

6 cubic meters

it just happens to be that one "unit" of a liquid is a cubic meter, lol

[frozen jolt]

that was not very well disclosed in the game but I'm glad it's not more complex than that ❤️

but what about pipes? I've seen people referring to number of pipelines when making grandiose project

[bleak coral]

Pipes can move a maximum of 300m^3/min for mk1 and 600m^3/min for mk2. So that's part of what's being discussed when people talk about number of pipes.

It's the same as talking about how many belts you'd need to move material

[frozen jolt]

so if the total m^3/min consumption exceeds either mk1 and mk2s, I'm gonna have to make more spaghet?

[bleak coral]

more or less, pipes are different though in that they're not movers, they're just containers that allow flow

so not all your liquid needs to moving in the same direction in the same pipe

so you can do stuff like make double-ended pipes where there's stuff coming from both directions and as long as there's consumers between the ends the flow from both sides can go over the limit cause no one section is over the flow limit

[frozen jolt]

tbh, when I can't see what funky stuff's going on in there, it's a bit odd trying to plan stuff out. Like, I've been scratching my head for a good bit now trying to figure out how to expand my coal power plant without breaking anything

[bleak coral]

do you know what insertion manifolds for belts are?

[frozen jolt]

I don't think so, no

[bleak coral]

lower right one, injected manifold: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/File:Manifold_Schematics.png

You can do that with pipes too to overcome pipe flowrate limits. The idea is some of the items/fluid gets used up by machines then there's room for more throughput/flowrate to be "injected" in the belt/pipe.

The only difference is with pipes you don't need a separate merger, you can just add it to a junction.

[supple mural]

huh, i think "manifold, output mirrored" and "manifold" should be switched

[frozen jolt]

I'm gonna have to sleep on this one, getting late over here

[muted crypt]

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this

[bleak coral]

yeah that's kinda weird

oh wait, no the more I think about it, it makes sense, having a hard time articulating it though

[signal nimbus]

...asking because I can't find it on the wiki for the life of me. How much water do nuclear power plants use?

[supple mural]

nah, its only mirrored in the sense that it's output is mirrored to the first one in the diagram

[supple mural]

300m3/min

[signal nimbus]

Perfect, thanks.

[bleak coral]

the first one is rotated, not mirrored

[supple mural]

also how the hell did you manage to not find it lel

oh youre thinking in terms of how the belts are directioned?

i was thinking in terms of where the external connections are

[bleak coral]

oh, yeah I was thinking direction

[signal nimbus]

...I checked both the wiki and calculator. For whatever reason, and i may be blind, it didn't say.

[bleak coral]

the direction is what matters so 🤷‍♂️

[signal nimbus]

...I think I found the problem:

I'm on mobile and don't have access to my PC.

[supple mural]

in any case, i think that the "output mirrored" manifold should be the one that has no extra adjectives on it, if that makes sense, like, the default manifold

ah, mobile might screw with it

[signal nimbus]

Yeah it looks like there's a LOT less info there.

[supple mural]

wth

its just, not there

[signal nimbus]

shrug The more you know?

[supple mural]

mfw when mobile browser bad

[bleak coral]

mobile is broken for the wiki, all the subsections are gone

oh no wait, they're in the contents side panel lol

something got fucked

[signal nimbus]

Guess so.

[bleak coral]

wait is it just nuclear power plants?

[dark thicket]

What items are meta for sinking?

[bleak coral]

some combination of the final elevator parts

I'm not sure if anyone has found a perfect balance yet

[unborn ermine]

Early game, having a setup making either raw quartz or silica while you go about your normal play is great for some extra tickets at the start.

Mainly because it takes you a hot minute to get anywhere where you will need the materials in the first chunk of play.

And drop pods, never hurts to gather goodies from drop pods.

[signal nimbus]

I look forward to the day when this game will have no meta because the better question is "what kind of super-factory would you like to build?", and not because we just haven't done the math yet.

Or it gets complicated enough that we don't have time to do the math before the next update comes out.

[bleak coral]

I mean we know the like 3 items that are good for points, but I don't think we know in what combination it makes the most points. And that's only if you're building for points.

[signal nimbus]

Right. If nothing else because the ratios and algebra are crazy. But, that math will eventually be solved and we'll know.

[wind spade]

I don't think that will be the case

There will always be some math to do

And there will always be some meta

[rustic lagoon]

Can someone double check my math here...

On the coast...2 pure and 2 normal Oil nodes. Power shared out the whazoo...so 1800 oil total oil in 3 pipes, 600 each...

Each pipe feeds 20 refineries making the Alternate Heavy Oil Residue recipie. (Assume polymer resin is sinked...)

Each set of 20 refineries produces 40 m^3 of heavy Oil residue a minute Each for a total of 800 m^3 of heavy oil residue, split across 2 lines.

In total these 800 m^3 will in turn be used in 27 refineries (one running at 66%) to make Diluted packaged fuel.

Because they make 60...correct? 60 packaged fuel a minute...and the packager can unpack them at 60 as well, I end up with 26.666*60 or 1600 ish fuel.

Fuel Generators run at full tilt now...so at 60 fuel per minute yes?

Meaning that I will be powering...27 * 3 or 80 generators for 12000 MW of power....correct? Am I crazy here?

This is my first foray into Oil and I'm immediately building at scale. I have residual recipies for plastic and rubber, I just want to know if I'm doing this right.

For the last 120 hours I've been playing and running my entire world off of 4 to now 40 coal generators making 3000 MW.

[unborn ermine]

When in doubt, plug it into a calculator

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production

[muted crypt]

Make sure you set the correct alts based on what you plan to use.

But fuel generators consume 12 fuel per minute, not 60. Key detail there.

@rustic lagoon

[unborn ermine]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Fuel_Generator

[muted crypt]

If I can make a recommendation, however, I'd wait until t7 and get diluted fuel instead of diluted packaged fuel. You skip the package/unpackage step but maintain the same overall conversion ratio (1 HOR + 2 water -> 2 fuel)

[rustic lagoon]

Thanks....I guess I need the power now however...

And I tried the calculator but it was confusing and I wasn't sure how it was taking in inputs. It also didn't allow me to power shard machines

[loud heron]

Doesnt that need a blender'

Cause getting to t7 is a bitch without alot of power

[unborn ermine]

Some sub stations like this are handy, gets some temporary power and gets resources where you want them later.
Plus, 40 coal gens isnt too bad for a chunk of power.

[strong whale]

Planning on making a massive thermal propulsion rocket factory (aiming for AT LEAST 30/min) are there any alternates you would recommend for this purpose specifically?

Or do you know where I can find a good table where I can check out some of the possible alternate recipes?

[loud heron]

SatisfactoryTools

[still escarp]

just a question , is a mathtool directly in game (and ifyes how canwe open it)

[loud heron]

N key is the quicksearch

can type basic math into it

[still escarp]

ok thanks !!

[bleak coral]

it solves right to left though, so use parenthesis if you want to do anything more complicated than one step

[empty tusk]

Anyone got a blueprint for the aluminum production ?

[upbeat condor]

use online calculator in #welcome

[proven sphinx]

is there any math on how much batteries a drone needs for x km ?

[proven sphinx]

how much aluminium u need?

[rain veldt]

Hey friends! So did anybody did calculation, on whats the new turbomotors are for points?

[proven sphinx]

242 720

[frosty owl]

But did you calculate it?

[empty tusk]

Any good plan i havent started aluminum yet so anything would be good will try the online calculator if its updated

[proven sphinx]

aluminium ingots?

[rustic hazel]

Hi. Speaking of aluminium production. I set up inital production with 2 refineries using sloppy alu + 2.67 refineries using electrode. But the water line keeps getting clogged.

There is also one water collector providing the remaining 120water/min that the 2 sloppy alum. refineries require.

[balmy geyser]

theyre gonna get clogged anyways because theres no way to do input priority

i have two refineries running off water input and another two running off the water that all four output meaning i always use all of the waste water

i can try to get the numbers for you in a bit maybe but someone else here probably does it better

[frosty owl]

There are ways to not have byproduct water clog up. Having it used ALL by some production (without mixing it with EXTRACTED water) is one of the easiest and most reliable ^^

[rustic hazel]

ok, so then send the waste to first refinery and combine the rest with water collector pipe for 2nd refinery could solve the issue?

[balmy geyser]

had to do calculus to get my numbers lol not sure how others do the math

[oblique hollow]

I just did my math and feed the water back in. And my water extractor input is limited

[frosty owl]

Divide the production in refineries using waste water and refineries using normal water

Generally, it's a good idea to have a big buffer on the waste water side, to check flow, check if water backs up and ease of flushing

[frosty owl]

Mother of vertical pipes...

[oblique hollow]

Diagonal!

[frosty owl]

"Not 90"

[oblique hollow]

Also i only use 2 pumps but 4 pipes upwards

[oblique hollow]

But its parallel so its pretty

[sturdy loom]

ocd is happy

[frosty owl]

Preference, I guess 😅 😆

[oblique hollow]

Its always fun when the non-90° setups turn out pretty too

And it looks better than pure vertical tbh

[balmy geyser]

here is my almuminum setup, hasn't clogged yet, consumes 480 bauxite

[nimble vector]

what's the meta for generating power in update 4 these days?

[muted crypt]

I'm pretty sure there is enough sulfur on the map for max nuclear and a big turbofuel setup

I could be wrong, however. I don't know the numbers for max nuclear

[frosty owl]

Depends on how many batteries you want, pretty much xD

[frosty owl]

I'm pretty sure the "big turbofuel" you mention sucks up as much if not more sulfur than nuclear

[muted crypt]

My turbofuel plant sucks up 1800, I'd be content never building another one of them

[deft summit]

Guys

[rare surge]

Math check please:

To make 4 HMF/min, I need 2 manufacturers.

Those manufactuers need a total of 20 encased steel beams("ESB")/min

20 ESB/min need 5 assemblers

5 ESB assemblers, using alt recipe need 140 steel pipes/minute

[deft summit]

wait

oops

[magic shadow]

do you have a question?

[deft summit]

no its fine

[muted crypt]

go to http://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production and plug those numbers in, selecting your alternate recipes as desired

[tawny kiln]

i dont understand
1 refinery, feeding fuel for 6 generators 120 units per minute, overclocked
still 2 gens are constantly without fuel, no overclocked gens

this wasnt this hard at the previous builds

[muted crypt]

what fuel recipe are you using, residual?

[tawny kiln]

normal

[muted crypt]

so crude -> fuel

[tawny kiln]

yes

[muted crypt]

I'm curious how you're making 120/min with one refinery when the recipe produces 40/min at 100% clock lol

regardless... are you mixing any pipe types? i.e. are there mk1s and mk2s in the same system?

[tawny kiln]

shit, im stupid
forget it
my resin output was stuck

[muted crypt]

well that'll do it

[loud heron]

Would it be simpler to just package this nitrogen gas back home lol

some of these nitrogen wells are really out of the way

[balmy geyser]

t r a i n

[wind spade]

or build the factory next to the nitrogen well 😛

[topaz hedge]

Train. Fluid cars are easiest.. if you just need a little.. if you want to move the whole well your going to have to setup a package/ unpackage train.. which isn't too bad

[deep root]

I mean, one overclocked nitrogen well at 250% isn't any more than 6 or 7 packagers IIRC. And condenses 4x the amount of nitrogen

[loud heron]

Yeah I was wondering what liquids and gases become denser with packaging

Which at that point then asks the question as to why we need fluid freight.

[deep root]

Not many liquids/gases transport better as a solid. Nitrogen right now is just an insane conversion imo. Too good to transport as a gas.

[frozen jolt]

why the devs thought it was funny to put a slider for the overclocking is beyond me

[deep root]

Lol

It used to be okay when you could only clock at whole numbers

[frozen jolt]

and now it's doom eternal for logistics workers

[manic oak]

Why not just type in the desired output?

It will auto adjust the overlock for you if you do that

[frozen jolt]

that's what I'm saying!

[manic oak]

But that feature is there

[deep root]

Don't use the slider. Once I discovered you can type in the exact number you want I've never used the sliders

[frozen jolt]

wait

I can?

[manic oak]

Yes

[deep root]

Yes

[frozen jolt]

.... my life's been a lie

[deep root]

See! You will never use the slider again

[manic oak]

You can also calculate the percentage yourself, which you usually wind up calculating first anyways

[dull bolt]

You can also copy paste the numbers if you plan on using the same number for multiple machines.

[manic oak]

And adjust that numerically

[deep root]

You can also type in the exact target production number you want, not just the percentage

[loud heron]

Resource wells are awkward haha

So they output in bursts right?

[frozen jolt]

I feel... so dumb now for not thinking about left clicking the % number XD

[deep root]

The per minute output is correct, regardless of what the machine looks like

[loud heron]

Well yeah, was just wondering if it's in bursts of like double the amount, then idle half the time

Or if it's a constant output

[deep root]

You can get more exact target production by using the number and not the overclock percentage

And don't... I found out that same information here in this discord before I thought to click it and manually type it

[frozen jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/suopontwitch-suopontwitch-angry-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaa-gif-20673700

I would say that from here on things are gonna be ok

but me heading into late-mid game

I'd be lying to myself

[loud heron]

Still wondering bout this part.

[deep root]

Inspect the pipe and watch flow rate?

In the grand scheme of things, why does it matter?

@loud heron

[loud heron]

Cause one of them is 300/m3

But if it's a burst of 600 followed by 0

Then I'll need a MK2 pipe

[mystic moon]

The pipe has volume

[deep root]

Oh I see now. That still won't matter though. Because the pipe will still transport it all, the machine will just empty into it

[loud heron]

Won't it bottleneck itself cause it can't get it all out?

Meaning I get less per burst

[deep root]

If the machine says 300, the mk1 pipe will carry it all

[deep root]

No because of it did burst at 600 but produce 300 overall the pipes volume will transport all 300

[mystic moon]

The machine has an internal buffer

Which will make up for it.

[loud heron]

My concern is if it bursts at 600, the resource extractor will block itself cause of lack of pipe throughput

[loud heron]

Is it large enough to not be a concern?

[deep root]

But that isn't how pipes work and how machines work

[mystic moon]

Yeah

[deep root]

IF it worked in bursts it can buffer enough

[mystic moon]

Like Soransis said, if the machine says 300, a 300 pipe will work.

[mystic moon]

I think that they're just meaning each production cycle.

[loud heron]

I see.
I was looking at the resource extractor and it seems to only output when the resource well finished its piston cycle

[mystic moon]

All fluid machines produce a certain volume per production cycle.

[loud heron]

Which means either the node itself makes 300m3 when active (so realistically it's NOT 300m3) or it makes 600m3 and its idle half the time

[mystic moon]

If the refinery makes 40m^3/min of fuel, but makes it 4 at a time, then you will get bursts like that.

[loud heron]

Ah

Thanks.

[oblique hollow]

it basically just outputs 10 m³ every second

and that equates to 600 / min

[topaz hedge]

most fluids transport better as packaged, as a freight car can hold 3200 m3 vs 1800 fluid, at which point the regular tables apply. however, none of them compress as much as nitrogen, as a traincar full of packaged nitrogen is 12800 m3 vs 3200 for any other fluid, and 1800 m3 for a fluid car. Not all fluids are as easy to pack/unpack either. as they all have different rates, water is 60, fuel is 40, etc. nitrogen is 240, or 600 if you overclock the packager to 250%

So tldr, nitrogen has a compression ratio of 4x when it's packed, and it's the fastest packing/unpacking recipe currently.

[keen flame]

Most fluids transport better as fluid*. If you transport them as packaged, you have to transport the packages back

[frosty owl]

Battle between complexity and number of cars

[topaz hedge]

pretty much^ Transporting packages back is easy.

of all the reasons to not ship packaged fluids, I don't think having to bring empty canisters back is that big of a deal lol. more like the factory of packagers/unpackagers you'd need to move 1800 oil across the map just for the sake of a shorter train.

[versed violet]

You need extra car for them, or two extra stations
probably worth it for nitro gas

[deep root]

At that point you would use more power just to transport a solid

[topaz hedge]

oml.

[unborn ermine]

At that point do the trucker thing and have a backload for something near your nitrogen extractors.

[topaz hedge]

What's an extra station? and nah, nitro is better transported as fluid. I'm not moving an entire 3000/min well of nitrogen across the map with 6 freightcars, nope (:

[unborn ermine]

if you have the infrastructure, you have it 🙂

[versed violet]

you could have extra stop ater unloading, to load empty canisters into same car, then extra stop at nitro plant to unload them before loading full ones. Or just extra wagon and do both at same station

[topaz hedge]

gimmi a bit and I'll share my nitrogen packer in screenshots

[gilded maple]

What’s a safe bet for the amount of batteries needed to support 40 drones flying various lengths?

[topaz hedge]

Alright, it's in #screenshots. That station handles the whole of the rocky desert well, 1920 m3/min of nitrogen and brings it to grasslands, with 4 freight cars, two for packaged nitrogen, 2 for empty cansisters

[topaz hedge]

Probably 5 batteries/drone/min

[gilded maple]

Thank you

[topaz hedge]

that gives you 200/min batteries. I'd probably try for 240/270 batteries just to have a few extra.

[gilded maple]

I was going to set up my storage in the middle of the map where I already have my hyper-tube hub and have it just be a massive drone port so I didn’t have to set up infrastructure to transport stuff to there

And then I needed just a few extra around the map as well

[frozen jolt]

even though I'm splitting things up to make up for the lack of conveyor belt speed, I'm still stuck with the same output from the first belt from the miner, right?

[deep root]

Yes

[frozen jolt]

oh the pain of not being able to overclock to 600 per min when the belt only carries 480 ;w;

[versed violet]

Don't worry. It will be replaced by pain of not being able to use pure node full potential because highest belt only goes to 780

[frozen jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/hide-the-pain-harold-gif-10575677

[umbral harbor]

The devs had said they implemented a feature to pool buildings together or some such thing to reduce the building count in the game. Has anybody figured out how much it was reduced by?

[muted crypt]

You guys will be happy to know that @oblique hollow is working with me in my world to do various fluid experiments to figure out more about the scuffed mechanics in this game

[oblique hollow]

im having a blast

[muted crypt]

you're like a kid in a candy store rn I swear

[oblique hollow]

im like a kid in a sandbox

[muted crypt]

digging for your own treasure

that is ✨ knowledge ✨

[oblique hollow]

im building my own treasure xd

best experiment ever

[muted crypt]

glad I could provide a playground for you 😄

[topaz hedge]

I'm a little jealous. Speaking of, does having a pump here apply headlift to the segment without the pump?

[oblique hollow]

applies to bottom first

once bottom filled up, it will go to top

so unless the bottom half is full, no head lift will be transmitted up

[muted crypt]

this is assuming we're looking at a side view

[topaz hedge]

So, as long as the segment below the junction can fill, it will apply headlift

you could say that's a topdown view lol

or you're looking at it from above.. those pipes will be horizontal. I noticed one of my water sources coming from a well doesn't have quite the headlift I'd like, and since it's only 150/min I need to add more to it anyway.

but, thanks XD

[oblique hollow]

Oh this is flat ground

Yeah then it will apply head lift no problem. The pipe still needs to fill to transmit that though

[topaz hedge]

purrfect.

[oblique hollow]

Also @muted crypt now has one row of 100 turbofuel gens with ridiculous flow rate

[muted crypt]

400ish when the whole system of 100 gens is supposed to get 450... and none of them are starved

[oblique hollow]

400 ish means 450 input and 450 at the end

[muted crypt]

I'm still smol brain after watching galleon work with the pipes for 2 hours

[bleak coral]

oh pipe stuff, I may have a save for you to play with, trying to fix my turbo power tower, it was getting starved at the top with mk1 pipes even though it was full on load

i replaced everything with mk2 pipes and pumps and let it fill, bout to turn it back on and see if it helped

it was maxing the mk1 pipes before

[oblique hollow]

Sounds like fun. I could do the same with you as i did with maroon and just join you in MP and do some ✨ pipe magic ✨

[bleak coral]

hopefully I've fixed it and not missed any mk1 pipes, I don't really want to figure out how to run a pipe to the other end at the top..... checks....... 160ish meters up

[oblique hollow]

Once dedicated servers are a thing i think ill just... Try to get a server and open a Plumbing School

[muted crypt]

it's a-me, Mario

[oblique hollow]

Its a me, WAAAHrio

[bleak coral]

Wario's school for Petty Fart-Based Revenge & Plumbing (name pending legal approval)

[oblique hollow]

But really, cloosed loop manifolds with feedback are ridiculously op

Somehow, if you prefill all gens, theres a flowrate greater than 0 left over at the end. If you feed that back to the input, it will accumulate over time.

It feels like it generates flow out of nothing but i dont think pipes are that broken

[bleak coral]

I think this is working, but I've got to let it go for a bit to see if it can keep up and isn't just burning through the turbofuel refinery buffers

[oblique hollow]

The drawback of my method is that you need to have pipes that are not near max flow.

Else all you can do is split input and feed it to the end

[bleak coral]

Also I still had unstable power when all the power tower's generators were off, which means I have another generator system that's not working. I'm pretty sure it's not the coal I check one of them and the other is a 1:2 direct to generator from extractor setup that doesn't even need pumps and only does like 90m^3/min in each system. So I doubt that one is bad. Unfortunately that means it's probably the other turbofuel system which I thought I had made robust enough for this.

I'm gonna go check that one out, and give this one time to show any flaws

[bleak coral]

@oblique hollow well I've got a fun one, it's a double-ended fed system that starving some in the middle, I suspect issues because of pumps prevent flow in both directions (there's pumps between the machines because of how I've made it)

however I can't invite you to multiplayer cause the save is modded, and I think that's still broken even if you downloaded the same mods

[topaz hedge]

yup, I've seen that. solution is to feed it in the middle :3

both sides, and center feed.

[bleak coral]

not exactly possible with this setup

or wait maybe... what if...

[topaz hedge]

I've run into that one quite a bit, even with 2 mk1 pipes feeding both sides of 8 machines that're using exactly 600, the middle of the row will starve

[bleak coral]

Picture for reference

[topaz hedge]

ohboy

[bleak coral]

not quite done version, but you get the idea

define "middle" lol

[fierce ruin]

something like this?

but expanded

[topaz hedge]

I.. don't know what to tell you lund.. are you already using mk2 pipes?

if not, you could upgrade the whole thing and hope that fixes it.

[bleak coral]

damn and the power tower isn't stable too, aw fuck it I'm not dealing with this more today

two of the referiners are backed up and it's still slowly losing turbofuel at the top

[topaz hedge]

I've had issues with double ended feeding even 360 water.

[bleak coral]

man this may make me quit again for a while, I thought i was coming back, but if fluids just aren't stable unless flat I'm not gonna have fun

[topaz hedge]

no quitting.

[fierce ruin]

addiction be like...

[topaz hedge]

we will fix™️

[bleak coral]

it's just pretty fustrating to nominally do everything right and still 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

injected manifold?

[bleak coral]

No

[cedar mica]

I wonder if the issue is thats the pipes are not designed for manafolds, but rather more direct setups

[fierce ruin]

it might just be a precision error

[topaz hedge]

This might not be that bad to fix™️

[bleak coral]

manifolds still have the least amount of junctions, and other methods are just manifolds with extra junctions anyway because of how fluids work

[topaz hedge]

the first setup though.. that's one of them that I'm like.. uh.. send save and wait a week lol

yeah.. I'm fine with people that balance belts.. but balancing pipes

[bleak coral]

I think the problem I'm running is I've got pumps in-between generators, which probably messes with the double-ended solution mcgalleon came up with

but it's a bit hard to avoid that when you want to build tall for the aesthetics

[topaz hedge]

in theory, it shouldn't.

you said refineries are still full?

[bleak coral]

wait..... they're emptying now

[cedar mica]

Out of curriosity, have you checked the pumps? I found that the pumps needs to be a bit closer together then the blue snap thingy suggest

[topaz hedge]

if the refineries are full, check there for issues first. you're overproducing turbofuel a bit too right?

[bleak coral]

they filled up when I was away..... and the other setup was stable when I was near it....

[cedar mica]

So background render vs forground render, bug?

[bleak coral]

maybe?

[cedar mica]

Well the background rendering, does a bit more simplified math, to reduce load, from what I understand

[topaz hedge]

I think it might've been a coincidence bug

[bleak coral]

I'm using mk2 pumps that are ~32m apart

[fierce ruin]

last time I checked it works

[bleak coral]

ring breaks anyway in these kind of setups, if you're not just going straight up but have horizontal sections or spiraling it disappears before you get the fat ring

nevermind on the away thing btw, they emptied a little bit then filled back up

[bleak coral]

I am not, but producing more turbofuel wouldn't help because I've already got two refineries not running at 100%

[cedar mica]

Maybe we are just trying to be too clever, for how the devs set the math up.

[bleak coral]

fuck clever I'm trying to be pretty 😛

[cedar mica]

Same thing, in most cases, as you are cleverly trying to make it look good

[bleak coral]

I'm done messing with it for now anyway, cause the next solutions are stuff that I really don't want to do and don't feel like doing them today

[topaz hedge]

Hm, check the refineries first. I haven't really experienced or seen anything you can do on turbofuel manifolds besides exceeding 300/600 that'll make it not work; since the fuel gens only use 4.5.. it's pretty forgiving

[bleak coral]

the next step for the tower is to tear out the pipes and redo them, and that's...... ugh

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, I'd assume the tower is good until proven otherwise. :3

[bleak coral]

it's still possible I missed a mk1 pipe somewhere, but at this point it'd be itty bitty and really hard to detect cause it's inside a junction or something, so it'd just be better to tear it out and start again

[topaz hedge]

well, when you feel like talking about/dealing with it again, lemme see how you setup your turbofuel leaving the refineries

[bleak coral]

alright, will do

[cedar mica]

Dont the calculator allow you to mass upgrade and downgrade pipes? Can be worth a try

[topaz hedge]

^ yeah it should. Ia few people have sent me their saves with turbofuel setup issues. they all had issues getting fuel out the refineries into their main feeds. and I've had it happen to me quite a bit too.

one of these saves the guy had balanced pipes into his fuel gens, it was like 900 junctions, but it still worked lol

[cedar mica]

I'm almost starting to wonder if the issue is the MK2 pipes and pumps. Like how MK5 conveyor dont always work proper

[wind spade]

maxed pipe manifold fed from just one side is known to be problematic

[topaz hedge]

mk5 belts always work as far as I'm aware. it's the splitter/mergers that cause the problems.

[wind spade]

but most issues are resolved by feeding the manifold from both sides

[wind spade]

I think it was tested that just mk5 belt breaks too (breaks = has slightly less throughput)

but I'm not 100% sure

[topaz hedge]

only way i can think of to test that is to feed it from a miner straight into a sink and see if the miner backs up

[wind spade]

as there's tons of people doing tests on this and it all blends together 😄

I think there was some testing with two containers and a stack of items and measuring the time

[topaz hedge]

ah well.

[cedar mica]

If MK5 was working perfect, we probably would have had 1200 belts by now. Just a hunch

[fierce ruin]

by 1200 belts manifolds would be too long to comfortably fit

on or near land*

[muted crypt]

enter a programmable splitter rework for ratio splitting instead of item filtering

[fierce ruin]

i know how to make infinite energy

[muted crypt]

battery plugged into a battery?

[fierce ruin]

no

[muted crypt]

any self-sustaining power grid?

[fierce ruin]

yes

[wind spade]

I mean since we have infinite resources, infinite energy is pretty easy

[muted crypt]

welcome to tier 3

[fierce ruin]

first you put miner in coal mine and you put a burn energy into it

[topaz hedge]

alright here's my test lol

[muted crypt]

have fun

[wind spade]

but you need to have the miner output 780 right

[fierce ruin]

exactly @topaz hedge

[muted crypt]

162.5% clock speed would be exactly 780 output

[topaz hedge]

alright and here's my condition, if this belt is moving exactly 780, then this miner should stay with 1-2 coal in it's buffer

[muted crypt]

let it run for like

an hour? and then come back

[topaz hedge]

oh I'm gonna forget about it for a couple of days playtime lol

so, update in... a week.. a month/whenever i remember ahah

[muted crypt]

set an alarm on your phone for a week from now

[fierce ruin]

like this

[muted crypt]

I mean, yes, but you need water too

but congratulations, you're becoming familiar with basic automated power structures

[fierce ruin]

why

why i need water

[muted crypt]

when you say burner, do you mean a coal generator?

[fierce ruin]

no

[muted crypt]

because you don't get power out of a resource sink.

[wind spade]

because coal generator needs water

[fierce ruin]

the mk 1 burner

idc

[wind spade]

there's no mk1 burner

unless you're using mods

[fierce ruin]

ok i will make a plan to put water

[wind spade]

but then you should discuss this on modding discord

[topaz hedge]

now that sir is some fine paint artwork

[frosty owl]

Remember to have it on its own circuit so it has continuous power and avoids the spikes you (still?) get when you open the save due to nuclear and water

Just in case

[fierce ruin]

@frosty owl yeah but if i put battery

[frosty owl]

... What?

[topaz hedge]

my grid is stable ^^ my powerstorages do a pretty good job at holding it up when i load my save.. and well, during normal operation now which is uh

[frosty owl]

Be sure not to turn off the power on accident then. I'm interested in the results 😆

[fierce ruin]

yea

i love ocean

[topaz hedge]

it should be safe. I am too. I've been preaching it's the splitters is why a mk5 won't move 780 forever now.. about time I tested my own hypothesis lol

[frosty owl]

I'm glad you're taking your time to do so :D
Especially since you got a big save to test it on

[muted crypt]

I can test on my save as well if you'd like, just for more sample data

mine is nowhere near as large, of course, but maybe lag plays a factor

i.e. once you get to a point where full throughput is needed, your save is probably big anyway

[muted crypt]

I will set it up later tonight, preoccupied for the next several hours

[topaz hedge]

Same, I wanted to do a few more tests, with splitters and sinks.. but pure nodes in grasslands are kinda hard to find.. and pure nodes that arn't being used are even harder lol

[fierce ruin]

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/s0f1ewiarv

interactive gragh for power consumption v1

[proud rune]

spent like an hour trying to figure out what was wrong with my water pipes for my reactor only to realize that i only built like 6 pumps thinking they were producing 300 each

[frosty owl]

They do if you overclock them to max xD

[topaz hedge]

Oh hey, @frosty owl @muted crypt I saved and reloaded my game.. it's been a few hours too.. looks like my mk3 feeding a sink it's still holding it's 1 coal in it's buffer

will report again next week lol

[muted crypt]

Set up a second system with a pure node being split into two sinks

To test your theory if it's the splitters

[topaz hedge]

two probably won't do it.. I was thinking about 8~16 lol

or I should say 1 split won't do it. I'll have to figure how how the fine balancing folk to their thing lol

[muted crypt]

The actual balancing?

Instead of smart man's balancing (manifold)?

[topaz hedge]

actually

what I'll do is a manifold of 13 mk1 belts.

[muted crypt]

Perfect.

[topaz hedge]

that way 780/60 = 13

[muted crypt]

split it off to both sides, so you'd have 6 total splitters: 6 on one side, 6 on the other, and one down the middle

[frosty owl]

I did something like this to test
You could just place a sink instead of having it loop back into the container, I guess?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/814739298893037619/Screenshot20210226-06210200000.png

[topaz hedge]

I'm not sure that's the best way, if the goal is to make it have a problem, then a single sided feed is most likely to do it

[frosty owl]

I think the 13 belts one would be the best one to test (the more the better)

[muted crypt]

What if you just set up like what Ven showed but with 13 total splits instead of what looks like 4 here

[frosty owl]

The split in my screen is just a 480-120-120-60 since I use that split often

||And was too lazy to make a 13 split one||

[torpid robin]

Typical ven laziness

[frosty owl]

It held up well enough, but behaved weirdly... Flow was inconsistent, number of items fluctuated quite a bit in the container (though it seemed to stay the same overall since its a loop)
Search for the Pic here for the discussion and details

[muted crypt]

Seeing "Ven" still grabs my attention from back when I used to play MapleStory 2, as it was what people in my guild would call me because of my character name... so it's awkward for me to see it even if the game shut down like a year and a half ago

[frosty owl]

... What was that name?

[muted crypt]

Venali

[frosty owl]

That means "veiny" in my lenguage

[muted crypt]

I was stronk priest

[topaz hedge]

alright, I turned on the miner and filled the belts like you would a real manifold, and then powered up the sinks and cleared the miners buffer

[torpid robin]

Hay wolf

What are you trying to see

If the drop in throughout is belt or splitter ?

[topaz hedge]

Pretty much. for the curiosity of everyone including me.

[loud heron]

God I wish machines would speed up midway into shoving power shards into them

[abstract copper]

flick it in and out of standby

[topaz hedge]

that won't do it... reset the recipe

[topaz hedge]

whoa.. This ones going into 13 splitters...

and here's the one feeding a sink..

I had both of these setups with 1 coal in the miners buffer when they were started.. the one directly belted to a sink was setup first, The one being fed through 13 splitters with mk1 belts in a manifold has only been running for a few hours, and is already backing up

[loud heron]

Hoo boy

I dont know what to do with 930/min aluminum ingots

[dry wave]

I'm making aluminum, and if I don't sink all outputs, the water backs up. I don't want to package it and sink excess water, wasting all that plastic. Is there a setup that causes the water extractors to stop before the refinery water backs up?

[umbral harbor]

Sink water into coal generators for power

If you're able

[dry wave]

Interesting

[umbral harbor]

Granted, you'll need coal or oil nearby for it to be practical, but it's a pretty easy way to use it and get a nice little power boost

Or, if there's iron/copper/etc nearby, you could use it to make pure alts, then use those for something.

[dry wave]

I'm overflowing the petroleum coke into the burner. Seems to help. If the system is backed up, there will be excess coke.

I wish the burners had inputs on both sides. My belts/pipes were nice and clean, but to get the burner in there, it gets ugly

[loud heron]

Valves

Your loop should either be self sustaining or lacking water, which your pumps should provide

[topaz hedge]

put smart splitter on aluminum output with overflow into a sink. your setup never stops, and you get points if you don't use it all. win-win

[rare surge]

So I know maxed flow rate pipes have issues due to rounding, so I have a question: When overclocking oil extractors on a pure node, is it best to overclock a tad below 250%, or would something like a junction-fork mitigate the rounding issues(assuming input is bottom pipe)?

[loud heron]

ye

Ive solved rounding issues using fluid buffers lol

If they go positive or negative in the slightest, the buffer will take care of any lack of throughput

[topaz hedge]

a simple junction into 2 mk1 pipes will suffice, no valves or buffers necessary

you should still design your setup to use slightly less than 300 oil perside though.

[rare surge]

Thats the plan; this is specific to getting the oil from extractors to processing.

[topaz hedge]

although, it really depends, sometimes a setup that uses exactly 300 oil will run fine, or it won't. :/

[loud heron]

I havent had a problem with facilities at the peak pipe throughputs so far

[rare surge]

For full consumption, I've found a fluid buffer just before manifolds helps significantly in getting the last machines their fluid

[loud heron]

Whether they back up in the future remains to be seen, but after days and days

fluid buffers do just fine to keep them all at 99.999%

[rare surge]

not sure why, just seems to help from my own experience (as Han suggested)

[loud heron]

I doubt theyll ever reach 100% properly cause of the fluid rounding

But realistically they'll probably be fine for weeks

[rare surge]

I still plan to under consume a tad just to offset those rounding errors

[loud heron]

I have a giant fuel plant for like 266 generators

the fluid buffer for turbofuel is still like 10% bouncy

around ish

If anything they might not be consuming fast enough lol

[dry wave]

I just figured out I was generating twice as much water as needed for my aluminum setup. It's not backing up anymore, heh.

[knotty yarrow]

I’ve built my refineries a few meters higher than the water extractors. So now the refinery has the higher head and its water has priority over the water extractor’s regardless of the amount of water I’m generating

[oblique hollow]

Oh ive tried that. They backed up. Until i realized my water extractors were producing too much

Once i underclocked them, the top refineries stopped backing up

That gravity priority used to work, as far as ive heard, but after the fluid update, it stopped

[glacial hemlock]

That's a lot of pumps

[oblique hollow]

Now its stable

[oblique hollow]

1

[glacial hemlock]

Oops, the rest are valves

[oblique hollow]

And that pump is part of a Flowrate Equalizer

[topaz hedge]

Gravity used to work, just having your water extractors further away with more segments between them than your recycled water used to work too. It was pretty forgiving

[novel pendant]

normally it is the Valves at the top and four pumps at the bottom

[frozen jolt]

If I wanted to make a hybrid fuel factory that produces plastic/rubber and electricity, I would have to go crude oil into polymer resin and oil residue? cuz, boy the numbers are not in favour for electricity if I go rubber/plastic into fuel

[final crown]

I have an issue. I am trying to run 80 Coal Gens, using 40 Water Pumps. The way i have it set up is 4 rows of 20. My issue is I can't figure out how many pipes per row is needed and at what volume. Any suggestions on this?

[deep root]

45 water per generator

3 extractors for every 8 generators is the "magic" number

[final crown]

but that would exceed the 300 cap on the water pipe

120 per extractor and at 3 thats 360 so do i run the third at 50%?

[deep root]

E+----
E+
E+----

That setup will not overflow the pipes

45x8=360 which is 3 extractors at 100%

[final crown]

okay will try it thanks

[deep root]

@topaz hedge I'm curious to hear if you've done anymore testing of the belt limit

[loud heron]

Would be cool to have radiation shielded conveyers

[sturdy loom]

But then you cant radiate your factory

[vagrant wigeon]

one thing that I didn't get was the flow rate, in this situation the flow rate of 300 wouldn't let some generators without water at some point?

[loud heron]

Anyone got a rule of thumb for making Alclad sheets vs casings

[frosty owl]

After a few hours and a restart, the single miner connected to sink was still with just 1 item in inventory as should be
He then added another miner connected to 13 sinks with a manifold and MK1 belts
(This was yesterday)

[knotty yarrow]

No single section of the pipe will ever have more than 300 and that’s the limit

[real sun]

nah if you're producing 360 you either need two pipes or one pipe mk.II

300 is the max flow rate not the max capacity

[vagrant wigeon]

yeah that's what I did

[real sun]

yeah my power plant has 6 extractors split into 4 pipes, works perfectly

[muted crypt]

you can also feed two extractors into one end and a third into the other end for a row of eight generators

[vagrant wigeon]

but I already saw some very long pipes for those situations

that's why I got confused

[real sun]

yes that would work too, but i think it's easier to just split 1 extractor and merge it into two separate pipes

[vagrant wigeon]

I also did it

and I think it's easier to deal with the pipes in that way

ty guys

[deep root]

Right, I saw that. I was wondering if he tried any other configurations

[fierce ruin]

Is this correct? Or any golden rations for this setup. I just unlocked this two recipes.

[gusty nexus]

why 225 specifically?

the ratio is 3 refineries doing HOR feeding two 1:1:1 setups for diluted packaged fuel

[wind spade]

also why input canisters? just leave them to be looping in there?

[gusty nexus]

you scale up depending on exactly how much crude oil you're making

yeah, for diluted packaged fuel you feed the canisters back into the beginning

[wind spade]

3 refineries feeding four 1:1:1 setups

[gusty nexus]

yeah my bad, the diluted package setup uses 30 HOR i think?

[fierce ruin]

or you could set oil to 300 then set the mode to max

[gusty nexus]

i got used to the non-packaged version which operates on different ratios

[fierce ruin]

then set it back to the # that it outputs/min

[wind spade]

300 makes 800 fuel

[fierce ruin]

you can also find the ratio between inputs and multiply by the lcm of the denominators

like this? I am really messed up atm. Its like 3 am here. lol.

in this case it's easy since oil is way more inportant to get a nice # for than water will ever be

there fore your really only accounting for "one" input

you're still outputing containers odd

[gusty nexus]

the overall ratio is 3 HOR refineries, four 1:1:1 diluted packaged fuel setups, two water extractors (assuming no overclocking)

[fierce ruin]

Hahaha i am really messed up fixed it thanks for the tipss

packaged liquids? WATER THOSE!

[muted crypt]

shoutout to @oblique hollow for being a pipe wizard

[oblique hollow]

[fierce ruin]

he's piped about them

[muted crypt]

he got the grid to stabilize for the turbofuel plant https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/833480270245658664/836664546705277019/unknown.png

[fierce ruin]

is it possible to learn this power?

[muted crypt]

I'm gonna end up looking through and taking notes from what he changed when I sent the save vs when I get it back

[fierce ruin]

||I can't play til i get good wifi anyways||

[muted crypt]

F

when I had gone through it I could only ever get the grid to peak at like 108 GW when the whole system should be outputting 120 GW (3.9 GW come from coal/base fuel systems), and it definitely wasn't stable

[fierce ruin]

but in the mean time I made a power consumption gragh so I can know how fffed gens clock

[muted crypt]

but galleon did the thing with the stuff and boom stable at max

[gusty nexus]

i was able to get mine to stabilize by leaving the generators on standby for like an hour lol

[muted crypt]

I mean yeah that's an idea but ideally putting 800 generators on standby is something that should be avoided

[gusty nexus]

well i only made enough turbofuel for 160 generators

[fierce ruin]

stabilize fluids ---> destabilize sanity

[gusty nexus]

and turned off half of them

then i came back and saw all the pipes were full so i turned all of them back on and i stopped running into the uptime issues

[fierce ruin]

@oblique hollow Should make a guide about pipes

[muted crypt]

it's almost like he has twice

[oblique hollow]

oh i did

[fierce ruin]

RTFM

[muted crypt]

and is working on a third

[oblique hollow]

buuut im planning a big new one

which is less infographs and more like a manual

a multi-page pdf

[fierce ruin]

YES

https://tenor.com/view/yes-yes-yes-i-won-victory-celebrate-gif-14108178

[oblique hollow]

really its just the last thing that i need to do: a write on manifolds

[fierce ruin]

*a doctoral thesis on pipes

[oblique hollow]

but im gonna take that opportunity to write an entire Plumbing Manual

all my infographs will expanded upon in that

[muted crypt]

it's a-me, Mario

[fierce ruin]

*wario

[muted crypt]

waluigi

[oblique hollow]

wah

[muted crypt]

waaaahh

[fierce ruin]

whyyyyy

[oblique hollow]

btw @muted crypt row 2 was about to worry me but then it won in the pressure lottery and got 400 flow from the backside booster

[muted crypt]

nice

[fierce ruin]

so did he add fluid stablizers and shorten his manifolds?

[muted crypt]

backside booster? you mean to tell me that the fuel generators have an assblaster 3000 keeping them working?

[muted crypt]

no actual structures were moved, if that answers your question

[fierce ruin]

pipe gzuz

[oblique hollow]

yeah, feedback booster

Fuel Gen Enema. Whatever

[muted crypt]

i-

[oblique hollow]

their fuckin life support

[muted crypt]

lmao

[oblique hollow]

this piperooni here

row 2 is about to receive is heroin shot again

[muted crypt]

row 2 is the weak link it feels like

but I have no idea why

[fierce ruin]

my baby blue 🎶

[oblique hollow]

.... the shot never came....

frick

4 gens died

[deep root]

Have you tried gitting gud?

[fierce ruin]

he's as good as they git

[oblique hollow]

.... now i know the issue

FFS MAROON xd

[fierce ruin]

curb your petrol coke

why didn't you check scim

[oblique hollow]

ALL the turbo gens are starving

[deep root]

Lol!!

[fierce ruin]

maroon onic

[loud heron]

Cant eat food without the refreshing taste of coke

[viscid shadow]

I'm about to start on my patch 4 aluminium plant, any suggestions to help me get started?

[gusty nexus]

you need water and coal

[viscid shadow]

thanks

[gusty nexus]

if you don't have any alternate recipes, you will need to import some silica as well

[fierce ruin]

double post respond in #old-questions-and-help

[viscid shadow]

are any of the alternate recipes bad? or less efficiant?

[bleak coral]

instant scrap is a bit weird, more power and uses sulfur, but it has an interesting, smaller setup

like the way the recycling works you can do 1:1 sulfuric acid : instant scrap and feed the sulfuric exclusively on the byproduct water from instant scrap, so it eliminates fresh/waste water mixing without doing math

but sulfur is rare, so it's a pretty steep price for that

[frosty owl]

||*Maroon oniichan? ||

[muted crypt]

excuse me

[unborn ermine]

Pardon my stupidity/ignorance.
Does this seem right to anyone?
I feel like the calculator is assuming the outputs are 30/min instead of 60/min

[bleak coral]

Assuming which outputs are 30/min?

[unborn ermine]

The rubber/plastic, I feel/hope I'm just reading this wrong.

[bleak coral]

don't forget the rubber/plastic that needs to be looped

[unborn ermine]

Oh good I am an idiot

thanks

I think its time for a meal and a break, been fiddling with the game for a good chunk of time

[dark thicket]

Taking a break is important. This game can be very demanding as far as brainpower goes in comparison to a typical game

[topaz hedge]

So after letting my game run, the single miner directly connected to the belt has given me no reason to think that a mk5 belt and a miner won't deliver 780/min. even on my 11MB+ savefile @deep root The miner that's connected to a manifold through splitters however.. failed just as expected

[frosty owl]

How did it fail exactly? Stuff accumulating in the miner?

Thanks for testing, btw :D

[topaz hedge]

remember how I prefilled this manifold?

And, yes the miner will fill up, and shutdown every ~30 miuntes to an hour or so

[frosty owl]

That's quite the hefty loss of material... Doesn't it wait to output like 15 items before restarting?

So feeding the miner to a ISC and extracting the resources from there currently is a viable "fix" to the issue...

[deep root]

@topaz hedge have you tried any additional setups? Like more or less splitters, smart or programmable splitters, mergers to feed the 3rd splitter output back into the system?

Or adding an ISC?

[topaz hedge]

Not yet, but from the results of this test, the problem appears after the first splitter. so adding anymore splitter or mergers will just make it worse

[frosty owl]

@topaz hedge Would you be willing to test the setup but with 14 outputs (2 30/min ones) after splitting the miner feed in 2? (Kinda like MaroonRaptor66 suggested)

If splitting the belt is enough, that'd be a much quicker fix than using an ISC xD

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, I was going to do that next. Since the issue shows up after the first splitter, I'm curious is using all the outputs of the splitter will fix it

[deep root]

That's what I was getting at. Use all outputs, even if it is just to put it back on the same belt

[topaz hedge]

Actually, what im gonnna try next is this Mk5 belt going into a splitter, with a mk5 belt going out of the splitter into a sink

if this is able to back up, then any combination of splitters will cause it to back up and lose material, I think?

I haven't tested the ISC method yet, but, I suspect that, or using something like a trainstation is a viable option to get 780 on two belts

If this doesn't backup, then the splitter is working as it should, so prehaps it's having a fast belt, feeding into a splitter, with a slow belt output that causes the delay?

[frosty owl]

I'm thinking the latter

[frosty owl]

Btw, you could setup an storage to collect overflow too on the side ^^

[topaz hedge]

how? like by using a smart splitter?

Also I changed it a bit, splitter with all 3 outputs used, all outputs have mk5 belts.. gonna let this run for a bit, but so far.. it's not backing up o.o

[torpid robin]

I should try it on my 20mb save and see what happens FPS can be pretty bad in it

Oh I read that wrong

[frosty owl]

Of course. I mean, you already have a splitter on the belt, might as well, right?

[torpid robin]

It said won’t

[topaz hedge]

mines only 12MB, and I've done pretty much everything I can to keep it running as decent as possible on my machine.

[frosty owl]

Sure, there are many variations yet to be tested after all ^^

[topaz hedge]

we've all said it's fps drops that cause issues.. but I really don't think that's the case?

[torpid robin]

Well I had noticed already I was having problems anyway lol that why I’m interested in what he is going on about

[topaz hedge]

because well, if an fps drop happens, shouldn't it affect everything in the same way, effectively slowing all machines, miners, and belts down?

So far what all I've determined is that a max manifold will fail. with a mk4/mk5 belt

[frosty owl]

I don't think it's necessarily so

Also, FPS drop can happen at any savefile size, can't they? Even though their frequency surely is related to savefile size

[muted crypt]

When did this update happen to SCIM? I like it

[torpid robin]

I’m not so much talking about a drop . But more a constant low FPS . And tbh I have never noticed any issues with machines slowing down the way pipes or belts do

[muted crypt]

shows up when you put your cursor over a node label

[topaz hedge]

The game does split the workload through 3 cores but, I think blaming low fps for this.. might not be correct?

[loud heron]

MK3 miner at 250% lol

[muted crypt]

cries in mk5 belts

[loud heron]

When do we get our 1200/min belts

just fuckin teleporter belts that connect the same way but is invisible

[muted crypt]

I distinctly remember a discussion on a livestream for covered belts

[loud heron]

Its more just what would we possibly make MK6 belts out of

[muted crypt]

the time it takes to calculate which path an item should take is probably adding an extremely small amount of time delay which will add up over time, maybe?

[topaz hedge]

So, I've made some changes, I'm going to feed my row of sinks for the middle, and I added a "overflow" to an isc

[muted crypt]

I think when they were available for all of about 30 minutes in the launch weekend (or something, idk) they used alclads AND heat sinks, probably in a similar fashion to how mk2 pipes use copper and plastic in a 2:1 ratio?

[topaz hedge]

I'm not sure, I could see the issue with trains, as they follow a track that doesn't have any defined network in the debug data. but belts and pipes have a "circuit" they belong to

that's intresting @frosty owl

[frosty owl]

I've often seen belts empty out after a lag spikes or the opposite (maybe due to splitter output freezing in one state)
I've also seen overflow splitters randomly overflow stuff much like in the screen above xD

Eg: whenever I have an overflow belt connected to a miner (so usually hitting belt limit), by the time I connect that belt to a sink and power it, it already accumulated quite a few items on it, even if it shouldn't have (I even had sinks already set up further down the line)

[fierce ruin]

Hello, I've gotten to last tier for the first time and want to learn more about meta in satisfactory. What is the general goal that you strive towards in meta? Max products per node? Throughputs?

[torpid robin]

We won’t . We have problems with mk 5 belts and mk2 pipes . So they have said we won’t get a mk6 belt . I think what we will get is another output on a mk3 miner

[loud heron]

That would be nice yes

Or just give us wireless conveyers using SAM tech

[torpid robin]

Whatever you make it to be

[fierce ruin]

Whats being optimised usually?

[deep root]

All the testing @topaz hedge is doing its showing us the issue isn't with the belts though! Or at least it's leaning that direction

[loud heron]

Alternatively, they rebase the entire game's recipes

Half the speed of all conveyers, miners, recipe requirements, and construction times

Gives us room to expand

[torpid robin]

I mean it has been stated by snutt that they know there is an issue with belt speeds

[deep root]

@topaz hedge how long is your belt going directly from miner to sink? Can you increase its length and give it some turns maybe?

[torpid robin]

Something else may be going with splitters as well sure

[loud heron]

Im guessing its an issue with how they get rounded at high speeds

Hence why Id suggest just slowing everything in the game down a bit

[deep root]

Wolf has a miner hooked up to a sink using a mk5 belt and it hasn't ever backed up

Showing that the problem may not be belts

[frosty owl]

Having the factory running at 100% is a pretty impressive achievement. The bigger the factory, the more impressive xD

[torpid robin]

I have had miners connected to sinks and they have backed up though . It had a container in between though

So unless it was the container slower it down

[fierce ruin]

I see.
Was thinking about compacting the factory as much as possible, because I made a system to build constructors, assemblers and manufacturers vertically with connected inputs&outputs

[loud heron]

Building efficiency is also fucked up

All my buildings say 1% despite them running nonstop

[frosty owl]

Give the number a second to update

[torpid robin]

It’s not always broken like that lol

And when it is showing something other than that . It’s working as intended

[loud heron]

its either 99%, 1%

[unborn ermine]

They will always fluctuate between the three, 1, 99, and 100.

If its one of those, there is no need to worry.

[torpid robin]

Actually I think if it’s 99 it needs something done .

I had a few setups . They ran at 99 the. It starved everything after it . I reworked a couple of my pipe manifolds to be fed from both ends. Then everything started to run at 100 with no starvation

[hazy garden]

Is splitting 1:6 using splitters possible?

(pertains to a discussion in #satisfactory, I think it is not possible)

[sand garnet]

Split 1 to 2 splitters

Done.

3 outputs each

[topaz hedge]

it's pretty short, I can spaget it quite a bit but I don't think it'll make much difference

if it shows 99% there's an issue in my experience. 94,95,1,0 I've seen pretty much all kinds of numbers eventhough they're running nonstop. the only way to be sure is to watch it.

[cedar mica]

Is 40 uranium fuel rods and 20 plutonium fuel rods, the optimal ratio in terms of resource usage?

Current plan is to sink the plutonium, till I surpass 500GW

[deep root]

What if the length of the belt creates an issue with throughput?

[frosty owl]

I don't think that's a thing

[deep root]

It doesn't have to be spaghetti, just increase the length maybe?

But if it's a rounding error, then a short belt wouldn't show it right?

[frosty owl]

I think errors only show with splitting honestly

[deep root]

Ah ha, but thinking can't help us show the devs what the problem actually is

They state the problem is the mk5 belt... But if it's actually splitters this whole time they may be looking at the wrong thing

[frosty owl]

You can replace "I think" with "my experience in the game so far leads me to believe that"
My fingers are quite lazy today :sweat_smile:

[deep root]

LOL

[topaz hedge]

I mean that's my experience too. I don't think belt length plays a part. but, for the sake of testing.. if I'm gonna do it it needs to be a loooonnnng belt..

[deep root]

Yes, I understand... Mine too have not shown an issue with belts.

[frosty owl]

I think (this time used properly) there is enough ambiguity in that sentence to imply that they could mean "mk5 belts don't work well (in general)" not separating simple belts and splitting systems
But I'm just guessing

[deep root]

I would argue the belt only needs to be as long as the manifold that shows problems

[supple mural]

because math, any n:m balancer is possible, though they can be extremely complex

[frosty owl]

You could ask @marble coral to produce some spaghett for you

Since when is 1:6 complex?

[supple mural]

its not

[frosty owl]

I'm glad

[supple mural]

but if you want a 34:43 balancer good luck

[hazy garden]

no idea, but if you read Chaos_2's messages, it doesn't seem as easy as 1:6

[marble coral]

ha

[topaz hedge]

I think it's the splitters too, I have for a while, and I think the little bit of testing I've done 1)shows the mk5 belt itself is working as it's intended. 2) issues start to arise (reduced throughput) after only 1 splitter.

[hazy garden]

It's like 5 items all on the same belt, 4 of which go to a manufacturer, 2 of which go in personal container, and anything left over goes to a sink

and uh, yeah that I couldn't just wrap my head around

[supple mural]

could just use six smart splitters in a row

[hazy garden]

an yes, that is 5 items, 4 manu, 2 in container, and I scratched my head as well

[topaz hedge]

I don't need spaget, I just need a belt that runs from grasslands, to north forest and back to grasslands lol

[hazy garden]

Which is what I said! but no... no smart splitters, even though they have them unlocked AND use them!

[marble coral]

🤔 so spaghett

[hazy garden]

@grand violet you get in here and defend your crazyness with the Math Masters

[deep root]

But, I would think, if the they thought the problem wasn't in the belt they would give us faster belts and tell us they will work at x speed until you start putting them in splitters, etc.

[frosty owl]

That's SMART SPLITTING, which is different from normal splitting... Unless you wanna try to smart split an output WITHOUT smart splitters, which, while possible, sounds like masochism to me

[topaz hedge]

well even if they already know the problem is the splitters, a faster belt wouldn't do us much good regardless

[deep root]

It would though... We could get the maximum use out of mk3 miners!

[frosty owl]

If they increased the belt throughput (assuming the issue is splitters) it could cause even more issues with the splitters

[deep root]

Give us a belt limit of x+y% where y% is the known loss of a belt

[frosty owl]

I'm pretty sure y is lag and/or hardware dependant

[topaz hedge]

No, I suspect with the slight drop in throughput, that the mk5 might be about to slam into a wall with how fast a splitter can split items, and it just barely works at 779/min and 781 a min might not split at all

[hazy garden]

Okay, here, watch this I guess https://youtu.be/a9lNGe_QkP0 Chaos_2"I made a short laggy (sorry) livestream here where I try to explain it"

[topaz hedge]

This isn't something I can test though

[deep root]

If that was the case wouldn't the 2 systems wolfgrim made behave the same???

Or are we saying belts AND splitters have problems?

[supple mural]

all of the above

is my guess

[frosty owl]

I think splitters
Wether that is different from saying "belt and splitters", I dunno

[deep root]

It has to be different

[frosty owl]

I'm not following, aren't they 2 quite different setups?
The one with 1 belt worked fine, while the one with splitters didn't

[frosty owl]

For all I know the code behind can link them together or tream them differently 🤷‍♂️

[deep root]

If lag or hardware was the issue, then no matter how you setup a system it should behave the same in every case. Meaning the miner should back up in both the direct to sink and split setups

When both systems are on at the same time

Wait... @topaz hedge are both systems on at the same time?

[topaz hedge]

yes

I used another pure node to do the second system

[frosty owl]

As I said, I just think the "loss" you referred to is caused by splitters and caused or amplified by lag spikes
So it makes sense to me that the same system would hace different losses on different hardware or base size

Eg: the bigger a lag spike, the bigger the voids on belts I could notice whenever those happened in my base

[deep root]

I see what you mean now

[grand violet]

Debba has send me to the Math masters here

[topaz hedge]

Weren't those voids just visual though? I thought someone had done some testing and found that although there was a void on the belt or something something, the part was shown to appear in a storage container or a machine?

[frosty owl]

My English isn't great today due to tiredness, so I apologize if my explanation is confusing

[frosty owl]

Dunno, never had the chance to check by trying to grab stuff (it's been a while since I've had full mk5 complex systems running, tbh)

[deep root]

It isn't!

[frosty owl]

I also try to avoid full MK5 in the first place nowdays ...

[grand violet]

I am trying to find a compact (at best 1x2x2 (XYZ) solution to limit the output of a container to maximally 4 items, currently needing only 2, so the container stays filled and thee modular engine manufacturer also has rubber (100%=2, maybe want to overclock, then 4)

[hazy garden]

@frosty owl go get em tiger!

[frosty owl]

I think I need more context (and no, I'm not gonna watch the full 9 mins of the video, sorry :P)

[gusty nexus]

put a smart splitter in front of the container and feed the overflow to the relevant machines

there isn't really a good way to control what is coming out of a container if you're also trying to keep it full

[frosty owl]

If your main objective is to keep the container full, I think the easiest way is to have a splitter right before it instead that on the output side: the splitter let's the overflow on the container, while sending the needed resources on another belt

[topaz hedge]

I think that's in a gist what we should tell people from what we know from my tests and others, mk5 belts work up to 720~760/min

[grand violet]

my factory building currently only allows more stuff to be placed at the output but thank you for looking at it, its a good and short answer

I found some kind of Rube goldberg divider that only lets through 20 items per minute but I cant repeat the design and put it after another

[topaz hedge]

after that, I'll get around to testing how an isc acts as a splitter to get the full 780 :/

[frosty owl]

Might be soon to say
If splitting in 2 gives 2x390 without losses, the issue can be avoided similarly to the pipes one

[hazy garden]

sounds like painted built into a corner, which anyone here would tell you, avoid

[topaz hedge]

splitting in two results in a loss.

[frosty owl]

It's hard to get what (I think) you want without either having a belt looping back to the container or having a sink deal with excess

[frosty owl]

Wait, you tried that one already? Did I miss the results?

[topaz hedge]

I couldn't see any difference, although if you split 2x or 3x mk5 belts, it works. but the issue seems to happen when you have a full belt blocking a splitters output

[grand violet]

I actually "have" plenty of space but the building is finished and cant really accept any more cubes at the side

[hazy garden]

Let me in and I'll show you about clown cars

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, this was it #math-and-meta message I didn't let it run for very long before i changed it, but normally it starts to back up in the miner pretty quick if there's going to be an issue, I've noticed.

[frosty owl]

Yeah, but that's the point, if you split in 2 you have 2 belts with wiggle room for more throughput on each side of the splitter, don't you?

[rare surge]

Anyone know, off-hand, how much crude/minute can be extracted along the northern coast, assuming extractors are OC'ed to 250%

I'm getting 2850/min, and just need a sanity check

• Excludes the 3 nodes on North-West ridge
• Excludes the 4 nodes in ravine to south-east of coast.

[topaz hedge]

you do, and it think it'll work as long as those belts don't back up.

[frosty owl]

So... Splitting in 2 works...?

[hazy garden]

oooooo, I like it too

[topaz hedge]

gimmi a day or two to test this lol

[frosty owl]

Sure. My brain is fried for the day anyway 😅

[hazy garden]

And yet my SCIM doesn't do that! What gives!

[gusty nexus]

i'm seeing 1425?

that area, with the exceptions you outlined, has 5 impure oil fields, 3 normal, 2 pure

[rare surge]

Yea, so OC'd to 250% I get:

5x 150 =  750 +
3x 300 =  900 +
2x 600 = 1200
= 2850

[topaz hedge]

looks right to me.

[gusty nexus]

lol the numbers the new SCIM tooltips are showing are all wrong by 50% then

[hazy garden]

I concur <adding nothing but nodding vigorously>

[rare surge]

Thanks for the look over ❤️

[hazy garden]

um, yep, and can confirm the SCIM thing, those numbers be off.

[gusty nexus]

did anyone do the math on how much sulfur is available after fully maximizing nuclear power plants?

[hazy garden]

and I think its 100% off at 250% notsoy

more than

[supple mural]

at least three

[gusty nexus]

nah, all the numbers are half too small

[hazy garden]

60% off, okay

[gusty nexus]

pure oil fields are 240 and the SCIM tooltip says it's 120

[topaz hedge]

odd

[gusty nexus]

likewise, it lists pure 250% at 300

[rare surge]

Thanks, I'll post a bug report with scim

[cedar mica]

Might be off, because the data is mixed with the resource well version

[gusty nexus]

LOL that could explain it

[hazy garden]

250% pure says 300, should be 600, so its compounded

[gusty nexus]

yeah my guess is the tooltips are supposed to be using a "base" number and applying modifiers as needed

[grand violet]

I found a way

[gusty nexus]

and the base number is the wrong one (i.e. listing impure as normal)

[topaz hedge]

it's not really a major bug.. I guess it would be if you didn't already know.. but if you're into this game enough to use scim.. you should probably already know the overclock values XD

[grand violet]

had a thinking problem

[gusty nexus]

i only see two crude oil pressurizer "areas", is that correct?

[hazy garden]

I am into the game, I use SCIM, I didn't know the numbers off the top of my head 😦

[supple mural]

about 2k/min

[rare surge]

Eh, I have a casual dialog with anthor, so its no big deal for me to post a bug report to him

[supple mural]

it seems

[gusty nexus]

because i have one of them tapped and it generates so much more oil than the usual oil fields lol

[hazy garden]

how much do they generate?

[rare surge]

I'd like to see a refinery recipe for sulfer as a by product of refiney crude. as its an actual byproduct in IRL oil production :/

[hazy garden]

mmmhmm mmhmm, very yes on the sulfur from the deep wells

[gusty nexus]

the one i tapped is the good one, it generates 540 not overclocked

i overclocked it to generate 607.5 to hit a round number for my turbofuel plant setup

[iron prairie]

In a shameless plug for a QA post: https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/60713196aa0ba107e32576f8

[grand violet]

@hazy garden I found a solution that outputs 6.66/min on a 2x2x2 model

so problem pretty much solved

thanks for the help tho

start from bottom left it will make sense

[hazy garden]

60 goes into entire system, 60 are going to come out of entire system

where are 50 and change going?

[iron prairie]

There must be an exit path for the 50+, otherwise the 6.66/min will soon become 60/min as every other path through the splitter gets backlogged.

[hazy garden]

bingo

"It is... Ineviteburu"

@grand violet ^

[grand violet]

the fact that the mergers let one item in from one side and the next from the next side prevents this

[hazy garden]

1 input, 1 output, discrete objects. We can gurantee you, based on your diagram, you have only delayed your problem

[grand violet]

if the system fills up it spits out 60 for a couple seconds then goes down

i tried it

[hazy garden]

until the oscillations cease and it just becomes an extremely complicated "belt"

[gusty nexus]

why do you even need to control the rate like that, what the hell is the point

just let the machine overflow, it's not like you can actually waste infinite resources

[hazy garden]

@grand violet Are you aware that each splitter has an internal storage that is inaccessible to you?

[frosty owl]

Actually no, since the merger "prioritizes" the slower item/min belts (the main 60/min will back up to allow the 6.6/min into the merger)
Though the merge between the "60" and 2x20 does worry me

[hazy garden]

do this, take a spliter, isolate it, pump items into it. It doesn't hold just 1.

[gusty nexus]

you can tell by pointing at a splitter currently in use with the deconstructor

[hazy garden]

@frosty owl I don't know enough about this mechanic you say exists, but even then, I don't believe you

[grand violet]

when its done I will create a high quality GIF of it

[hazy garden]

run it for an hour, then get back to me

[grand violet]

so you can keep it as an example

I will!

[frosty owl]

Little known fact: if you have a 60 line and try to merge a 20/min line with that, the 60/min line will back up, while the 20/min won't

[hazy garden]

and what is the output of said system vencam?

[frosty owl]

60/min

[muted crypt]

Because it's trying to pull 30/min from each

[hazy garden]

so, entire system is still... 60 in, 60 out

[grand violet]

but one of the inputs gets backed up

wich is the entire point

[frosty owl]

Thought as I said, the "60+20+20" merger worries me a bit"

[proven prawn]

backing up would only occur in which the merged line is having more items per min then it can handle, assuming its below belt capacity this wouldnt happen, and since you only run belt at max capacity in certain situations this would rarely happen anyways.

[grand violet]

I'll see, planned to put another unit infront

[frosty owl]

Yes, but your prediction of which belt backs up (which is important in understanding this mind of balancers) is wrong

[hazy garden]

once this reaches equillibrium, which it hasn't because of exactly what chaos glossed over in... one second

"if the system fills up it spits out 60 for a couple seconds then goes down"

thats not in equilibrium

[rare surge]

I have a more meta question about this: why do you need exactly 6.66/minute?

[hazy garden]

GREAT QUESTION

and a very XY problem if I have ever seen one

[gusty nexus]

why do you need to restrict the flow like that if you aren't trying to feed other things

[proven prawn]

i have no idea, most of these practices are being discussed here i would never for the love of some kind of sanity ever do, mainly because i have always found said practices are usually a bad idea, or cause more problems then they usually solve

[hazy garden]

@grand violet ^

[grand violet]

I am trying to keep a container filled on a tight space

[proven prawn]

simply put i have always found the simplest solution that causes the least amount of problems is usually the best one.

[sharp oxide]

1+1=1

[frosty owl]

An example of why this conclusion is too hasty in some scenarios
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/826257805508870144/unknown.png
Output is 1/2 of the input, no items disappearing, just the feed belt backing up to half its speed

[proven prawn]

smart splitter, then that container before the split will always be filled first, seems simple enough.

[hazy garden]

mmkay, maybe it works, but I have never needed these solutions for an idea as simple as, fill up my container, then fill a manufacturer with the overflow, and once that overflows, sink the rest.

[supple mural]

just use smart splitters instead of fancy belts

[frosty owl]

I didn't think the point was how useful these informations are ^^

[muted crypt]

pure mathematics

math for the sake of math

[hazy garden]

but maybe it works! maybe you can rate limit without adjusting at the absolute source, but then you have to ask yourself... WHY

[frosty owl]

Though, this IS useful stuff to make some simple reducers (balancers to reduce the output of a belt)

[grand violet]

right now every 22 Seconds 1 Item comes out of the circle. its adjustable by removing one of the backfeeders from the loop

[hazy garden]

Well, have fun with your rate limiter, but please, for the love of god, KISS

[grand violet]

with higher tier belts this can be veryy useful

[hazy garden]

Keep it stupid simple. This is a solution looking for problem

[supple mural]

i prefer keep it simple, stupid

[frosty owl]

I could ask: why ask yourself why?
The fact that someone came up with the question in the first place means there is (at least) one reason to ^^

[proven prawn]

my smart splitter with overflow is fairly simple :/

[hazy garden]

Vencam, because the amount of brain-power-man-years that was used up on this was immense, when it could have been, use smart splitters. this is XY problem, one sec.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem

[proven prawn]

i mean its stupid simple or simple stupid i always get those confused hmmm