math-and-meta

[oblique hollow]

aw crap

[bleak coral]

radio control system now uses aluminum casings

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/codex/items/radio-control-unit

[oblique hollow]

my joke, RUINED

[muted crypt]

the devs saw this loop

and that inspired their rework

[frosty owl]

... Boomer, you relic of the past!

[oblique hollow]

grrm gotta find another way to waste materials

[bleak coral]

back to the drawing board!

the quest to make absolutely nothing continues!

[pulsar edge]

I do not understand a single word of this, and it is most likely my fault

[oblique hollow]

almost found a way to make batteries with no water

...(other than with the classic battery recipe)

i missed it..... by 2 Water / min

[bleak coral]

that sounds useless! good job lol

let me guess it also drastically increases the other material use

[oblique hollow]

not really

let me check on raw resources....

[manic oak]

@pulsar edge In an electric circuit, a value of "1" or "0" can be recorded if electricity is passing through a resistor. As it turns out, you don't need to be working in base 10 to be able to do math; base 2 will work just fine. In this sense, you can "add" the 1's and 0's of your electric circuit to do math. By combining electric circuits in different ways, you can eventually build the modern computer. They're trying to replicate these circuits using Satisfactory buildings.

[cedar mica]

Why even bother reducing water? Its the easiest to get mass quanitys of

[red plover]

This is incredible. Looking forward to seeing more updates

[pulsar edge]

oh wow that's really cool

[red plover]

If you're familiar with Minecraft's redstone, they are trying to replicate similar mechanics without actually having been given the tool (redstone items) given to them in the game. That's what incredible to me

[pulsar edge]

yeah that's where my mind went to

[pulsar edge]

is there a way for us to record said value in game yet?

[manic oak]

I have no idea, I'm not working on that project. I also haven't read through their posts, but I imagine it's based on what material is on a conveyor line

[red plover]

I think they said that they are recording 1 as (packaged water) and 0 as (empty canister) and that way, logic gates are somewhat easy because you can use a package to flip the signal

[umbral salmon]

This is exactly what we're doing yes. We also tried other approaches (no items vs items and one material vs the other) but then it is quite difficult to convert from 0 to 1 so we came up with this (although it's certainly not ideal...)

[pulsar edge]

so once you have those 1 and 0 values where you want them, how can you harness them?

[red plover]

It's pretty clever, all things considered. Especially with what you're given to work with in game. Although I do imagine water collection / removal could be tricky

[red plover]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adder_(electronics)

Not sure how helpful this is going to be given it's technical direction, but it could be a good read if you're interested in learning more

[pulsar edge]

thanks, but i mean like in game, how can you read that 1 or 0 value? i know smart splitters can move it to different places, but you can't use a conveyer value to say, turn on a switch or something

[red plover]

I see. Then we have the same question lol

[pulsar edge]

once conveyer values can interact with power grids however, a computer is plausible

because then you can tell it to control the power going to lights, and boom, you've got a screen

[manic oak]

If you have logic gates working, I assume this means you can set water to travel only through certain conveyor lines?

[rain pivot]

In theory you can make a screen with belts. Belts with water bottles being "on" and belts with empty canisters being off

[pulsar edge]

ooh that's actually a good idea

[manic oak]

You could feed a certain line of water to a diluted fuel packager, and then feed that into a generator to turn lights on or off

[red plover]

Going back to screen scanning where every pixel is updated left-to-right top-to-bottom lol

[pulsar edge]

there needs to be some sort of splitter that will only let items pass thro when it's powered

replacing the packaged water with packaged fuel would prob make things easier

the amount of separate power grids you'd need for the generator thing to work tho

i'd love to see that done but that's a ton of work lol

[rain pivot]

the problem with that is that we designed this system to be a completely closed loop, so no items/fuel are created or lost in the process

[pulsar edge]

ye that is a problem

we could turn an input on/off by clogging a programmed splitter with one type of resource to stop the other from passing thro

[unkempt acorn]

been putting it off for a while. but im finally going to automate motors... and try and do 30 pm

[umbral salmon]

Yes technically using the priority merger (the manual one with like 20 splitters/mergers) one could convert empty full into item on belt vs item not on belt, and use that specific item to do some switching (think input to an assembler) but honestly our interest is more just making a calculator for the challenge

[versed violet]

You can make a 'logic gate'
bottom left has 2 smart splitters blocked by leaves. Once you connect mid merger to storage, leaves are filtered out, and side lines let items through. You could use an unpowered machine to siphon the blocker items.

[cedar mica]

The issues with setups like that, is that they only work, as long as it flows even

[daring sonnet]

I'm starting nuclear for the first time. A mk3 miner outputs 600/min uranium from a normal node, from that I can get 480/min infused uranium cells and from that I can get 9.6/min rods or 14.4/min rods if I go alternate. Is this accurate?

also, does that mean that I can get 72 reactors from 1 node using alternates?

[flat wigeon]

@daring sonnet how many exist for uranium stuff 😮

i didnt even know id there were many

[daring sonnet]

there are 4 nodes, 3 normal, 1 impure

[flat wigeon]

I meant alternate recipes

for uranium stuffs

[daring sonnet]

there are 2

1 for cells and 1 for rods

I was planning on using both

I just don't trust my math

[flat wigeon]

Do you write stuff down ?

It's easy to trust when you catalogue stuff analog style.

[daring sonnet]

I do write everything, but still, I was hoping to get some confirmation, because my math is not matching the wiki

[versed violet]

use excel

[iron prairie]

Unless there was an update in the past day or two: max uranium (all 4 nodes) is 50.4 rods/min.

That should be 14.4 rods/min from a single normal node, feeding 72 uranium reactors.

[daring sonnet]

that's what I got too, that's it then, happy times 🙂

the confirmation I needed

[flat wigeon]

sorry i am here to just learn ><

my apologies

[daring sonnet]

no problem, this is my first nuc setup, also learning

so the max output is 630.000 MW?

[iron prairie]

Sounds about right. Do note that each reactor outputs 20 uranium waste/min, and plutonium reprocessing is currently in an awful state.

[versed violet]

redesigning Pick-a-Brick -> anyone has an up-to-date building materials list for U4?
I count 32 items used for building things, looks ok or something missing?
Orange is U4, equipment/biomas I haz in diff container rows

[daring sonnet]

that's beautiful, I always wanted something like this list, thank you!

[versed violet]

uh, feel free to try it out and let me know if somethings missing

You can use short belts to make a display/shopping mall row of containers (to be reworked into v2 with ISC now)

[daring sonnet]

I didnt know stators and quartz crystal were used to build stuff? am I missing something

[versed violet]

U4 😉

[daring sonnet]

what do they build though?

[low snow]

That technique to show the materials is so smart actually

Thanks

[versed violet]

it also has a hidden feature -> behind the corner is a set of con/ass/man for crafting small batches, so you can just connect a belt to container and run it to machine for instant production line.

[low snow]

Ooooo

[muted crypt]

I was meaning to figure out this list once I finished t7/t8 basic production... my t1-t6 hub is similar to this list, though. I'm automating gas filters and nobelisks, and I don't place beacons, but I have everything else on that list I think.

[red plover]

Late to the party, but I think con/ass/man is a really funny name for someone

[gilded maple]

Is anything new from t7 needed to make nuclear power and hydron colliders?

[upbeat tide]

Nuclear power, dont think so unless your using a blender recipe. Have not looked myself too hard, but I expect aluminum casings to be needed

Im currently wrapping up a 60 min HMF factory in U3. Gonna wait a bit longer to transition

[covert frost]

I've set up my plastic/rubber line but just wondering what is more efficient, Creating fuel from the residual plastic rubber or creating pastic rubber from the residual fuel?

[oblique hollow]

do you mean the recycled plastic / rubber recipes

[covert frost]

yeah 🙂

[oblique hollow]

because you cant turn plastic into fuel

only fuel into plastic / rubber

aaaaand the answer actually is: making rubber and plastic from fuel

[covert frost]

Sorry not recycled, Residulal recipes

from the fuel resin

[oblique hollow]

oh so you mean "make fuel, then use the resin, or make plastic/rubber, then turn the Oil Residue into fuel"

[covert frost]

Crude Oil > Fuel/Resin > Plastic/Rubber

Yeah 🙂

[oblique hollow]

its important to not confuse resin with residue

[covert frost]

Or the other way round creating fuel from heavy residue

[swift robin]

looks like you have the choice between increasing your plastic and rubber production further vs producing fuel to power the whole operation

[oblique hollow]

yeah, that the thing here

want more fuel or more plastic / rubber?

you cant have both this way

[covert frost]

Yeah that was my thoughts, im guessing fuel as power is king right? 🙂

[swift robin]

well turbofuel better 🙂

[oblique hollow]

i doubt they have that

[oblique hollow]

consider splitting your oil in 2 and doing both maybe?

[swift robin]

i don't discount the ability to make that big ol' oil refinery net neutral on the power bill so what i did with my first refinery in my game was turn it all into fuel for generators

[oblique hollow]

or you go hunting for hard drives and hope you find the "recycled plastic / rubber" recipes

[covert frost]

Thats what i currently have i think. One pure node for fuel one pure node for plastic and one normal node for rubber at the moment

[oblique hollow]

the benefit of finding the recycled recipe is that you ONLY need to produce fuel then

since the new plastic and rubber are made from fuel afterwards

[covert frost]

Oh cool

so you smash everything in to fuel production then split that out in to TurboFuel/Plastic/Rubber

[swift robin]

if u get all the Alts does it go HOR ->Fuel->plastic/Rubber?

i forgot lol

[oblique hollow]

pretty much

[swift robin]

• the packaging and unpackaging

[oblique hollow]

Oil > HOR > (Fuel / Diluted Fuel) > Plastic + Rubber Loop

[oblique hollow]

unless you have the blender c:

[swift robin]

ooo i havent used them yet

[oblique hollow]

normal diluted is 30 hor + 60 p water = 60 p. fuel

diluted blend fuel = 50 hor + 100 water = 100 fuel

so it saves packaging / unpackaging and building space

[swift robin]

dang that would making building oil setups a bit nicer

no difference in efficiency of resource usage though, just saves space and machines?

[covert frost]

Oh that would make sense to turing it all in to HOR for the new diluted fuel

[swift robin]

yeah HOR + Diluted fuel = lots of fuel!

[oblique hollow]

pretty much. maybe power usage

refinery = 30 MW
Blender = 75 MW

[swift robin]

oof 75 MW

all for a glorified kitchen appliance

[oblique hollow]

you would have to do math with underclocking and added packagers

[swift robin]

me, do math? nah we got the satisfactory calculator 🙂

damn that thing makes this game so much better lol

[oblique hollow]

you need at least 1.66666 refineries + 1.6666 packagers to match 1 blender

[swift robin]

i'm that guy that overclocks all his refineries by 5%

underclocks*

with copy/paste here nothing can stop me from pasting horrible numbers all over hahaha

[oblique hollow]

right now it looks like: 30 + 15.68 + 10 + 5,22 MW

sooo 61 MW for diluted fuel vs 75 for blender

buuuuut if you underclock the blenders.......

well, you know the drill

[swift robin]

ok so u eat into your net gain a bit

[oblique hollow]

2 blenders vs 2 refineries and 2 packagers

[swift robin]

i imagine it's not a whole lot though

[oblique hollow]

its really just building space now

2 underclocked blender already consume less than the adjusted refinery setup

barely 50 MW

[swift robin]

i been building my oil refinery in that canyons right off the cliff of speedrunner valley sooo space will become an issue actually lol

[oblique hollow]

so when doing blender fuel vs diluted packaged, its really just building complexity

[swift robin]

yeah i would do blender just to avoid the complexity

[oblique hollow]

"Blender go brrrrrrr" vs "Vroom Vroom Canister Loop"

both go in circles anyway

[jaunty geyser]

you also save a few MW

[oblique hollow]

yeah, just underclock the blenders to save power

[swift robin]

i believe he just told me it takes MORE energy to do the blender route (assuming all 100% clock(

[oblique hollow]

yeah

so use 2 at 50%

that saves more than the packaged route then

[swift robin]

and probably still takes less space...

[oblique hollow]

For 100 fuel/min
100% blender: 75MW
Adjusted Packaged Fuel: ca. 61 MW
2* 50% Blender: ca. 49.5MW

[jaunty geyser]

For 600 oil I had : diluted fuel 1800 MW, packaged route around 1933 MW

[frosty owl]

Bruh... Making 450 turbofuel with the blenders be like: instantaneous
Just 10 blenders and little more refineries, that's a steal

[night jay]

God I wish I had blenders now instead of starting up my hundreds of refineries.

[frosty owl]

Just the fact that one machine takes the HOR and water to make fuel saves on so many steps

[fierce ruin]

Hi, I am trying tonuse trains fir the first time with some aluminium stuff (so far I'm still not convinced belts are better than trains)

I have seen the formulas for how many freight trains you need, but I would like to know if there is any good "rule of thumb" rather than sitting there with a stopwatch and a maths degree to calculate it.

Thank you

Pure blender recipes when?

[fierce ruin]

The wiki has travel times plus you can estimate the time based on distance (on a flat line) + loading animation time

[red plover]

I believe it takes 25 seconds to load / unload at a station. Each load is 32 stacks (if available), and each unload is 32 stacks (if available). Basically, what you can do is run a stopwatch from the moment you start docking at one station, to the next moment you start docking at that SAME station (round trip time). Then, based on stack size, you can calculate items per minute. (Say your round trip is 5 minutes. 32 stacks with 100 items per stack is 3,200 items / 5 minutes or 640 items/min)

Also, be sure to put Industrial Storage containers (ISCs) as a buffer between the loading stations and unloading stations. The station stops accepting / depositing resources via the belt ports on the back when a dock is occuring, so that buffer allows your machines to keep working even when no items are flowing

[fierce ruin]

Can I unload silica and load aluminium ingots on the same platform or do I need separate ones?

[red plover]

Separate platforms, but you could use the same train (not recommended to use the same freight cars though for simplicity)

[fierce ruin]

You can but mixing belts is more of a headache than its worth

[fierce ruin]

I'll make 2 stations.... I am really hoping thst in the end I don't regret just running 2 belts XD

The setup seems a big hassle

[red plover]

It is a bit of a hassle, but it's also transportation AND power, so you don't have to run those yourself

[fierce ruin]

I need empty cars for the trip back? I thought it would empty and then fill with the next thing

[red plover]

It's definitely more efficient over long distances. Don't do it less than 1km away or so

[fierce ruin]

It’s 50 mw a station use wisely

+trains

[red plover]

Set it up like this:
<STATION><LOAD SILICA><UNLOAD ALUM>

(other station)
<STATION><UNLOAD SILICA><LOAD ALUM>

Two freight cars, one engine

[fierce ruin]

In a looped system*

[fierce ruin]

It's 1300 meeters or so according to the resource scanner... But it's longer because cliffs and stuff

[red plover]

train is good then

[fierce ruin]

Try to keep it flat

[red plover]

Yeah, going around the mountain will be easier than up / down

[fierce ruin]

You can always belt lift down easier than you can train

[fierce ruin]

Already gone down a massive cliff at the border of the red forest

[red plover]

If you need to increase through-put, you can always add more freight cars / freight stations. In my calculation above, if you have 2 freight cars, that's 64 stacks / per dock, or 1280 / min

[red plover]

It's fine. It'll work still. Just will draw a little more power and create a slightly longer round-trip time (less throughput)

[fierce ruin]

Cliff hanger train for the win XD

[red plover]

Just be sure the slope isn't too steep 😉 I use 8x4 double ramps for my slopes, but that's the same angle as the 8x2 single ramp foundation. More than that is too steep for the train tracks

[fierce ruin]

I thought if the game lets you build it it would be ok

It's all flying on the air between fpundations and going down between cliffs

Ramps are for engineers I am a spagetti God

[red plover]

Oh, if it let you build it, it's fine

Sorry, I figured you hadn't laid tracks yet. You good

[fierce ruin]

No worries... So far is looking wild XD

[upbeat tide]

Eh my 60/mon HMF plant is getting a lil big 🙂

Finally setup the 200 encased indy beams needed, took a good amount of space, but frames will take even more

[manic oak]

With regards to the turbo fuel discussion that was happening earlier, let's do some math: We will always use Diluted fuel to make fuel (it's significantly cheaper energy wise), so we don't need to worry about using refineries to make fuel. Instead, we need to worry about using refineries to make heavy oil and petroleum coke. However, you were always going to turn all of your oil into heavy oil anyways (since that's what the diluted fuel recipe uses). Let's count the amount of resources using Diluted Fuel:

1. 22.5 F + 15 CC per 18.75 TF => 1.2 Fuel/TF and 0.8 CC/TF
2. 50 HOR + 100 H2O per 100 Fuel => 0.5 HO + 1 H2O/F

With Turbo Blend, we have:

1. 15 F + 30 HOR + 22.5 S + 22.5 PC per 45 TF => (1/3) F/TF, (2/3), 0.5 S/TF, and 0.5 PC/TF

Suppose we have a fixed amount of HOR. The amount of energy used to produce it is negligible as it will be the same for both recipes. First, let's calculate our total TF produce with this fixed amount of HO, assuming all other resources are limitless:

Diluted: x HOR yields 5x/3 TF
Blended: x HOR yields x TF

So, Diluted yields more Turbo Fuel. The power generated by each would be:

Diluted: (150/4.5)*(5x/3) = 44.44(x) MW
Blended: 33.33(x) MW

TBC in my next comment, in case I'm getting close to the character limit

[vast jungle]

I am currently looking through the numbers for U4 aluminium (as a preparation for next Tuesday)...

if I see this right there are multiple choices to make...
Coke or Coal...
(More) Bauxit or Silica...
How much Copper...

did I miss something?

[upbeat tide]

@vast jungle I believe the best aluminum ingot making setup still is Sloppy Solution + Electrode Scrap + Pure Aluminum Ingot

You do lose ingots, but the sheer volume of silica required is the reason I see pure alu being useful now. Especially as Sloppy does not byproduct silica.

In regard to TF, I am setting up a 2500m3 build on the West Coast, using all 1800 oil there.

Using turbo blend fuel and blended fuel

[bleak coral]

@manic oak

Suppose we have a fixed amount of HOR. The amount of energy used to produce it is negligible as it will be the same for both recipes. First, let's calculate our total TF produce with this fixed amount of HO, assuming all other resources are limitless:

This is the problem in your evaluation. You're comparing two recipes whose axis of change is oil and sulfur. We already know blended uses more oil and less sulfur and normal turbofuel the opposite. Ignoring the sulfur costs ignores the actual difference in the recipes.

[manic oak]

I'm not ignoring the sulfur cost, I'm looking at total power consumption assuming I have some fixed amount of HOR. The model will eventually break down when you hit the sulfur limit, but again, I'm just looking at how much power it would cost to use up x amount of HOR to make some amount of TF

[bleak coral]

What? You literally said "assuming all other resources are limitless", that's ignoring the non-oil costs

[manic oak]

Sorry, I should clarify. I AM ignoring the sulfur costs, but that's only because I'm not interested in it. If your argument is save on sulfur, then Blended is the obvious choice. But if your argument is gain more net power, regardless of the solid resource cost, then the answer is a bit more complex.

[vast jungle]

@upbeat tide hmm... the input number for "Electrode Aluminium Scrap" is really awful... 180 instead of 240... make sure that nothing fits well 😉

[manic oak]

@vast jungle 2 Sloppy Alumina Refiners-> 4 Electrode Aluminum Scrap Refineries

[vast jungle]

Greenys calc tells me "2 Sloppy Aluminia" => 2.67 "Electrode Aluminium Scrap"

[manic oak]

I might have the numbers wrong, hang on

[vast jungle]

not sure the wiki is up to date either...

Oil is no problem for me... I have TONS of unused oil nodes.
But I would need to get new Raw Quartz nodes if I need a lot of Silica...

copper is not nice, but I think I have enough copper left, its not used that much

[bleak coral]

It's funny mark said he meant to increase the number of foundries with the bauxite change cause they're kinda underused, and then everyone flocked to pure ingots

[muted crypt]

if your argument is gain more net power, we found before that turbo heavy fuel was our best bet out of the three, not normal or blend

[manic oak]

How much power does it take to produce this TF? If we have x HOR to work with, we have:

Diluted: x/50 Blenders for Diluted Fuel + (x/50)*(100/120) Water Extractors + (x/50)*(100/22.5) Refineries for TF + (x/50)*(100/22.5)*(15/25) Assemblers for Compacted coal: 33.8(x) MW

Blended: x*(50/100)*(15/45) Blenders for Diluted Fuel + x*(50/100)*(15/45) *(100/120) Water Extractors + x*(40/120)*(22.5/45) Refineries for PC: 20.28(x) MW.
Net Power:
Diluted: 10.64(x) MW
Blended: 13.05(x) MW

Where again, (x) is the amount of HOR you have.

[bleak coral]

Think your numbers are off there buddy, nothing has a net power gain that low

[manic oak]

It scales with the amount of HOR

[muted crypt]

the x is each unit of HOR, I believe

so if you're making 400 HOR, plug in x = 400

[bleak coral]

yeah I get that, but that scales all parts of that equally, doesn't change the relative numbers

and you're saying it's <50% net power gain

[manic oak]

I wanted to see if they scale differently, so that at one point one might be more beneficial than the other, but looking back that was naiive, as either way the only thing that would matter is the slope

[muted crypt]

lemme bring these back to light, if we're looking at EXCLUSIVELY the relative net gain of power for X turbofuel produced, heavy turbofuel is the most efficient... because we're assuming resources are limitless.

I'm linking normal just because it's at the top^

I also listed the relative resource consumption of each based on how much is needed for X turbofuel (I chose x = 3000 because it just sounded like a good number I guess) and how much is available in the world

[vast jungle]

If I trust Greenys current site, the combination of "Sloppy Aluminia", "Aluminium Scrap" and "Pure Aluminium Ingot" gives you nice numbers...

1 Refinery Sloppy-Alumina - 1 Refinery Aluminum Scrap - 6 Smelters Pure Aluminum Ingot

turns 200 Bauxit into 180 Aluminum Ingots

[muted crypt]

👀

[wind spade]

trusting me can be dangerous

[muted crypt]

heh

[bleak coral]

your site is doing some funky stuff with big turbo motor solves

[vast jungle]

but the cost of 120 Coal for each 180 Aluminum Ingots is not nice...

[bleak coral]

I don't think it's wrong, they're just weird

[wind spade]

weird how

[bleak coral]

like when and how it starts mixing the different turbomotor recipes

[muted crypt]

this?

[bleak coral]

it favors electric on low numbers until the bauxite is maxed out, then starts bringing in turbo pressure motor

but it doesn't just start bringing it in, by the end you're making more turbo pressure motor than electric motors

[wind spade]

considering that I know like 0 of the recipes from top of my head, could you link me example on what happens, so I can have a look at it? 😄

[bleak coral]

I deleted them cause I figured it was a trying to save bauxite thing 😅

[vast jungle]

I am at the moment building the belts to get 2 Pure Bauxit nodes to an empty area... and now I have to consider what else I need 😉

[bleak coral]

I could find the spots again though

[manic oak]

Sorry Henning, I had a brain fart. It's 3 Sloppy Alumina Refineries -> 4 Electrode Aluminum Scrap Refineries

[wind spade]

would be appreciated, so that I can try to explain it / figure out there's a bug and everybody was building stuff wrong all the time

👀

[vast jungle]

1200 Aluminum Scrap... holy shit... 😉

[manic oak]

Oh yeah, baby 😄

[bleak coral]

This is a good example:
Max turbo electric motors: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=Le93bkkuMkQSv6vrbGv1
Same number but with both: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=1kPMQdy96VK82IqsVifA

[vast jungle]

so its a 1-1 conversion of bauxite into Aluminum Ingots...

[manic oak]

Actually it's 7200 for my setup, ya know, when I Get around to fixing it

[vast jungle]

with the help of Petrolium Coke

[muted crypt]

in case anyone is curious of max ingots according to greeny's calculator^^

[bleak coral]

I'm guessing it has something to do with aluminum, cause the bauxite actually gets maxed out way before 209.16

[manic oak]

Yeah, it really depends on what resources are nearby and if you feel like using silica. In the rocky desert, you can combine bauxite with 360 oil to get 3,600 Aluminum Ingots/min. Otherwise you can try the Blender recipe, but it costs a lot of sulfur.

[bleak coral]

So I figured it was the solve doing it's best to juggle all the rare resources

[vast jungle]

and 600 Bauxit is exactly what you can get from a fully OC Pure node with a MK2 miner...

[bleak coral]

but weirdly the solve does seem to prefer not using nitrogen more than not using bauxite, or maybe pressure cube introduces another rare resource that it prefers not use

[wind spade]

well the trees are pretty complex so I can't really be sure...

[vast jungle]

so I only need to get the oil/petrolium coke for the "pre aluminum ingot" step...

[tardy slate]

does anyone have a good setup for a 3-4 balancer

[wind spade]

nitrogen is slightly more common than bauxite, however it also depends on the amount of nitrogen/bauxite per TM

[wind spade]

most people don't do balancers here 🤷‍♂️

[vast jungle]

you could build it from 2-2 balancers

[wind spade]

usually they either do manifolds or 1:1 direct inputs

[vast jungle]

(which are easy to do)

[wind spade]

2 mergers and 2 splitters is not really easy 🤔

[bleak coral]

yeah I wasn't sure that it was a mistake, but it was just weird that below a number of turbo motors it prefered electric and then beyond that it started making less and less electric and more pressure

even when it could make more electric if it wanted to

[tardy slate]

i do to usually but i really want to balance this setup

[vast jungle]

its a compact design with 2 inputs and 2 outputs thats easy to get right

and with 4 of them you can build a 4-4 balancer (which can also do 3-4 balancing of course)

[wind spade]

any particular reason to want to balance?

[bleak coral]

crossover point is about 201 as demonstrated here: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=pqyIgnhD8KvG33evr6Uw

[vast jungle]

looking into the wiki and Aluminium Ingots get turned into Alclad Sheets and Casings... and maybe some Fluid Tanks and Fused Modular Frames later

[tardy slate]

dealing with 1900 silica and 2250 aluminum

[bleak coral]

that's the weird part to me, that the solve starts making more pressure motors not past the max of electric, but before then

[wind spade]

I'd build 4 modules instead of 3 and then do 1:1 🤷‍♂️

[tardy slate]

welp its already setup at 3 so... its already been a 2 day adventure this is the third just tryin to get it done

[wind spade]

then do 3 of the other modules instead 🤷‍♂️ or 6

[tardy slate]

cant do 3 cause its over 780

[wind spade]

don't merge it to one belt, merge it to two 🤷‍♂️

[vast jungle]

anyone a suggestion whats a good split between Alcad Sheets and Casings?
I would guess more Alclad Sheets is good, because they are MK5 belts...
but Casings look important too

[bleak coral]

Depends on your goals. I don't find these kinds of questions useful because the answer changes depending on what and how much you're making and also the recipes you use.

[vast jungle]

I don' plan any "max XYZ strategy"... over time I will make everything, but in "reasonable" amounts...
(I have to admit, sometimes not that reasonable ^^)
some buildings need Aluminum casings... but ALL belts suddenly will use the Alclad Sheets 😉

so I would guess that the typical factory will need more Sheets (Belts) than Casings

[tardy slate]

well you personally can be sustained with 10-20 sheets but the bigger thing is how many heat sinks and batteries are you gonna try and make per minute that will determine your required sheets per min

[vast jungle]

so maybe just start with an equal amount... 600 Ingots would be enough for 240 Sheets and 240 Casings...

[tall stratus]

Heyo, How much sulfur is the blender turbo fuel recipe saving compared to regular, in percent?

[vast jungle]

I can later split the second Bauxit node differently when I know better what I need

might need Fluid tanks if I decide to package nitrogen for train transport...

[oblique hollow]

the tanks are mad efficient

1 canister contains 4 m³

and a stack is 100, so 400. thats a small fluid buffer

[vast jungle]

yes... on the other side, I normally use 4-wagon trains... not sure if I NEED to package them with 4 fluid wagons in a train

packaging and unpackaging is always annoying

[bleak coral]

I really like how packaging works with nitrogen. I wish they'd done that with some other fluids.

[vast jungle]

how much nitrogen do you get from a cluster in total?

[fierce ruin]

depends on the well

not all nodes are equal

the pressurizer does tell you the total though

[vast jungle]

SCIM says its 7 pure wells

120 per well per minute at 100% ?

(says the wiki)

[fierce ruin]

believe so I haven't checked oil nodes

[vast jungle]

so with overclocking this would be 2100 m^3/ minute...

[fierce ruin]

just water and nitro

[vast jungle]

thats easy to handle with a fluid train with 4 cars I think

(and I don't want to use 9 packagers just to package it)

[iron prairie]

IIRC, something like 18% less sulfur per MJ added by turbofuel.

[tall stratus]

Thanks!

[iron prairie]

It's substantially less sulfur per turbofuel, by a much bigger margin, but turbo blend fuel adds less value to its components than classic turbofuel.

[tall stratus]

yeah I've figured. Got some help earlier in the #satisfactory-experimental

[glacial tinsel]

if I have two train stations that are far apart but i want to increase the items/minute throughput, whats the best way to do so?

[supple mural]

there are two options

have two or more trains, or add more wagons to your trains

[glacial tinsel]

the problem with two trains is stations cant handle multiple trains at once

so i guess i just need to make bigger stations

[supple mural]

if you start one while the other is at the other station you should be fine

[glacial tinsel]

should be i guess

but i dont want to ever have to manually unstuck two trains

[swift robin]

so actually liquid transport via truck is hella viable...

[upbeat tide]

If you dual train a single route, just make sure there is a minimum of 30 seconds between both trains at all time

[glacial tinsel]

see, thats the thing, i dont want to have to ever check in on that

becasuse im going to have many trains

so i guess i just need to time the round trip and add cars as needed

[upbeat tide]

time the round trip (without loading/unload) first, then add 50 seconds. If the total time less than 4m06s, then 1 car per belt. If more than 4m6s, use 2 cars per belt or 2 equal trains. If more than 8min12s, use 3 car per belt or 3 similar trains.

belt > ISC > cargo platform > train > pipe > pump > IFB > pump > fluid platform

There ya go. Train advice

[glacial tinsel]

yea, i saw the train post on the subreddit yesterday

would i need extra engines after a certain number of cargo cars?

[upbeat tide]

Thats straight from kwjcool321. Best you get

Extra engines help with big trains or alot of inclined track

Id double it after 6 cars, or if you notice its running slower than you would like uphill

[glacial tinsel]

im using double headed trains, does the backward engine count?

[upbeat tide]

Nope. Just gives you same engine power going other way

[glacial tinsel]

okay, i think i know what i need to do now

probably still going to fuck something up

[bleak coral]

yeah it does, it pushs/pulls both ways it just needs to face the other direction to pull into the station

[glacial tinsel]

that would simplify things, since i would hopefully never need more than 2 engines

[bleak coral]

you can test it yourself by doing 6 cars and testing with a one engine train going uphill and then again with a double-headed train going up the same hill

[muted crypt]

can someone check my math here before I build this and mess something up? just getting something basic going with aluminum

240 bauxite          + 360 water       -> 240 alumina solution      + 100 silica    (2x refinery)
240 alumina solution + 120 coal        -> 360 aluminum scrap        + 120 water     (1x refinery)
360 aluminum scrap   + 300 silica      -> 240 aluminum ingot                        (4x foundry)
90 aluminum ingot                      -> 60 aluminum casing                        (1x constructor)
150 aluminum ingot   + 50 copper ingot -> 150 alclad aluminum sheet                 (5x assembler)

to feed water, need 2x water extractor in addition to byproduct
to feed silica, need 5.33x constructor (silica) in addition to byproduct
to feed copper, need 1.66x smelter (copper ingot)

These are all base recipes ^

[iron prairie]

On the trains: I'd prefer putting down more freight platforms. If trains somehow sync up over time, that could be problematic.

On the aluminum stuff: U3 or U4?

[bleak coral]

I totally don't trust trains to not sync up over time. I just don't think the game is that reliable or precise to do it even if you could calculate the timing.

[vast jungle]

I think the primary issue with train synchronization is that trains with full wagons drive slower... which automatically make one of the trains catching up to the other one faster and faster as the intervals between the trains decrease

[oblique hollow]

i have yet to notice anything like that.

the weight of a freight car on a slope seems to be the same no matter if full or empty

[vast jungle]

I often notice that when I travel with a locomotive without wagons I take over other trains will wagons on it... so I assume its a difference

[oblique hollow]

wagons themself, yes

but not the cargo

[vast jungle]

not sure... train loading/unloading is a constant time... so if everything else is train load independent, the trains should not catch up

[oblique hollow]

depens if they all have the same number of cars and locomotives

[vast jungle]

but they catch up... which suggests that the train travel times are not just dependent on the number of locomotives and wagons

[oblique hollow]

is it all on giant loop or are there seperate branches

[vast jungle]

as far as I have seen peoples videos they have trains going from and to the same stations slowly becoming synchronized...

I don't have the problem because I have no pair of stations where two trains are necessary

[topaz hedge]

@calm flax

:3

[fierce ruin]

dat oil tho

[topaz hedge]

less oil with caterium computer. less copper for a little bit of quickwire. less circuitboards is where that alt really saves you.

[fierce ruin]

caterium for oil essentially

[topaz hedge]

and copper too, 397 vs 490 copper

[fierce ruin]

oh that 9 was soo small

[topaz hedge]

Yeah sorry. I'm not very good with my win+shift+s skills lol

[fierce ruin]

but then what do you do with all that oil

super computers?

or memeing with iron

[topaz hedge]

make iron plates and lots of ez hmf's 😄 uh no idea tbh.. I was really banking on U4 going kinda ham on oil.. and it didn't

[fierce ruin]

it did ham on sulfur tho

[topaz hedge]

so now I have a 4800/min recycled plastic/rubber combined setup on the spire coast that mostly just feeds a sink :/

[fierce ruin]

f

[topaz hedge]

yeah ham on sulfur and copper. looks like the best way to make supercomputers uses aluminum sulfur for batteries (which could use some plastic)

[fierce ruin]

time to switch back to default computer

sub the cable for iron wire?

[topaz hedge]

default uses too many circuitboards. :/

[fierce ruin]

by far as I've seen

[topaz hedge]

the OC supercomputer at first doesn't look bad, until you scale it up and the aluminum consumption of it explodes

[fierce ruin]

OC is kinda a personal use recipe

[topaz hedge]

Maybe. It's definitely not that good looking once it's scaled up

[fierce ruin]

even with Caterium computer off it defaults to caterium circuit boards lol

[topaz hedge]

The calculator really seems to like caterium circuit boards.. I'm not really a fan, I like the silica alt for cbs

[sand garnet]

it uses weighted resources to calculate

caterium is more abundant than quartz probably

[fierce ruin]

just barely

if you really wanted to burn oil you could go electrode

[topaz hedge]

It is. And it's not really a bad alt. I just had a bad experience dealing with it and all the quickwire in general involved with u3 supercomputers

[fierce ruin]

the copper sheets ratio is worse on silicon

[topaz hedge]

Ouch...

[fierce ruin]

not to mention using quartz

2:1 vs 2.2:1

[topaz hedge]

I'm okay with using a little quartz for circuit boards. My world isn't a max one. The increased copper usage though </3

[fierce ruin]

it's just bad

you touching into the bottleneck of alum and using **more ** copper

[topaz hedge]

Well. I'm making 540 cb/min with the silicone alt. I won't make anymore with it lol

[fierce ruin]

it doesn't make sense it should use more copper to make quickwire CBs too

if your prio on copper electrode or default are possibly your best options copper wise

oh wait wrong mathers err

15.625 C ing for 8.75 CBs on quickwire alt

1.78571429 copper ing to cb vs 2:1 default vs 2.2:1 SCB vs 0:1 electrode

[topaz hedge]

quickwire probably. Haven't really tapped into that much caterium on my world yet. I think I'm using maybe 2 nodes

Copper ingot to cb is what with silica?

[fierce ruin]

2.2:1

[topaz hedge]

Ah

[fierce ruin]

27.5/12.5

[topaz hedge]

Yeah. Damn

[fierce ruin]

oof

yeah not too good of a recipe anyway you split it unless you're desperate

[topaz hedge]

That's what I get for only looking at machine speed lol

Quickwire CBS are almost as fast

[fierce ruin]

not really

it's 70% the rate = 8.75/12.5

which means more energy use not accounting for ingredient cost

I guess that's the one niche benefit of quartz CBs

[topaz hedge]

Well, mine are all overclocked because that's what I do.. so not even getting that lol

No reach around D:

[oblique hollow]

in theory you dont need to feed more rubber into the recycled combo

you only need fuel there

[topaz hedge]

So 178 c ingots vs 220 for caterium vs silicone

[fierce ruin]

pretty much

if that's worth the sweat to you

[topaz hedge]

If I need more cbs. It will be

[fierce ruin]

42*5.4 (roughly 226.8 ingots) if you replaced your current builds

assuming they're all silicon rn

[topaz hedge]

They are, but it's not really worth replacing.. I built it all in the swamp.. and I've used all the caterium on ai limiters and hscs

[fierce ruin]

probably not

[topaz hedge]

So I'd have to train in plastic and caterium ingots xD if I need more, it'll make it happen at my hub and they will definitely all be caterium cbs

There was oil in the swamp.. which was nice.. I've already used to that too lol

[fierce ruin]

then there's the pain of the rest of the computer parts arrrg

a lot of super state is iron derived minus the battery

[topaz hedge]

Well, if you're just making rcus, it looks like the best alt is the one with casings circuitboards, crystal osc and rubber. No computers needed :D

[red plover]

So I'm looking at kicking off turbo fuel production today, and since I don't have the blender, it looks like I have two routes: turbo fuel or turbo heavy fuel. If I combine turbo heavy fuel with the heavy oil residue alt, I can get a ratio of 450 crude:480 turbo, whereas with the normal turbo fuel recipe, I can get 1080 crude:600 turbo. That's a 5:9 ratio (normal) or 16:15 ratio (heavy). Am I missing something, or is heavy turbo fuel the better of the two?

[fierce ruin]

turbo fuel ez pick

[topaz hedge]

There's some caterium in superstate. For the control rods but besides that it just iron and some batteries

[red plover]

Why? I use more crude oil that way

[topaz hedge]

Hm

[fierce ruin]

#math-and-meta message

[oblique hollow]

diluted fuel is the secret here

[topaz hedge]

Well if you plan to upgrade.. turbo is better as the moment you get blenders and diluted fuel.. or packaged diluted fuel that changes

[fierce ruin]

turbo heavy isn't a good long term plan

[red plover]

Oh. Diluted fuel. Dang

[fierce ruin]

it's quick for a good jump maybe?

[topaz hedge]

I dunno. It wouldn't be an easy setup to upgrade

[oblique hollow]

diluted HOR when

[fierce ruin]

uses more sulfur and oil

it doesn't even have fuel

[topaz hedge]

For maximum turbo fuel. You need heavy oil residue, diluted fuel or diluted packaged fuel, turbo fuel or turbofuel blend alts

[oblique hollow]

its a rather big combo

[fierce ruin]

preferably turbo blend(but reg TF should do very well too)

[red plover]

Gosh. Alright. Well, even though it's not ideal, my power is maxed out right now so I'm just gonna go with what I have and regret it later (then make it more efficient lol)

[topaz hedge]

Otherwise you can build a small setup to get you by.

But don't go big on it

[oblique hollow]

ive just built a really small boring normal turbofuel setup that uses 4 refieries in total

[red plover]

I don't have time to wait until I can reach the next tiers. Yeah, I won't go too big. Thanks everyone. Totally forgot about diluted

[fierce ruin]

-the motto for a non-alt factory

[topaz hedge]

I liked mcgallons nuclear setup

[red plover]

But yeah, with those diluted alts, 270 crude : 600 turbo is kinda ridiculous

[topaz hedge]

I haven't seen it outside of the editor. But it was neat looking

[oblique hollow]

it was really small and the organization is a mess

[red plover]

Link?

[red plover]

Oooh

[oblique hollow]

i just slapped my reactor on top of my factory

its a 2 story structure. 2 blender and 2 manufacturers below

[topaz hedge]

Alts use more power in general. So if your really strapped for juice. You might want to go for the simplier quicker setup

[oblique hollow]

im lucky i got the instant plutonium cell alt

that saves me a step

[red plover]

What are you doing with the nuclear waste right now? Isn't it like 20/min/gen?

[topaz hedge]

It looks nice and warm too. Like the temperature is just right

[oblique hollow]

yeah. im recycling it on the roof

[topaz hedge]

Not to radioactive not too cold

[oblique hollow]

my particle accelerator is set to like..... 17%

[red plover]

I like how your train line just touches the radioactivity lol. Just a little buzz as you zoom by

[topaz hedge]

It's not instant death like some people's setup on here >:

[fierce ruin]

does 120*1000 = 120 000?

[red plover]

Yes

[oblique hollow]

cmon, we did that test ages ago. yes

[topaz hedge]

Come visit the wolf powerplant for the flesh dripping off your bones melting experience

[fierce ruin]

I love how it's a paw

[topaz hedge]

shit it kinda is

[fierce ruin]

apawing that is

[oblique hollow]

i remember visiting it. your blenders were stuck because of the recipe change patch

[topaz hedge]

D:

[fierce ruin]

xd

[oblique hollow]

they werent recycling waste at all xd

[fierce ruin]

looking ||wolf ||grim

[topaz hedge]

yeah they ran out of.. uh.. nitric?

[oblique hollow]

nope, the recipe messed up their inventories

[topaz hedge]

Oh yeah that.

[fierce ruin]

2000 silica was it?

[oblique hollow]

you need to drag out the 50000 silica

[topaz hedge]

I couldn't remember.. as soon as the patch hit I ran and shutdown the reactors asap

[oblique hollow]

and also sulfuric acid and nitric acid

all 3 slots got messed up

[topaz hedge]

resetting the recipe fixed it... after killing me when 500 waste went into my inventory

[oblique hollow]

i wore a suit

[fierce ruin]

get wasted

[topaz hedge]

Here we go X3 #satisfactory-experimental message

[fierce ruin]

50 000 in japan

[oblique hollow]

funny enough, thats a result of the inputs being swapped. the nitric acid is inside the silica slot, the silica is inside the sulfuric acid slot and the sulfuric acid is inside the nitric acid slot

the "50000" is just 50 nitric acid, with decimals

[fierce ruin]

lol

them and their decimals

[topaz hedge]

The odd part is how it turned into a sulfuric acid sink, and drained the whole system

[oblique hollow]

very funny. Btw your nitric acid at the blue crater is overfilling your train buffers

might be because of this

[topaz hedge]

I think I'm not using enough of it. or I wasen't. I turned all 1500 nitrogen into 375 nitric and I was only using 135 of it.. glad I did because after the update it's using 270

[oblique hollow]

im still quite impressed by your oil site

[topaz hedge]

the plastic and rubber recycled loops? :3

yeah there's some kinda issue with my fluid trains. it supposed to pull evenly from the 3 buffers/train cars but it dont :/

[upbeat tide]

Well, time to redo my nuclear build. Targeting 50.4 nuclear rods a min and then 20 plutinum rods, whatever uses least nitrogen

[amber basin]

hey guys! i am just curious how does it work in the game, what if i've found a iron ore with 120 and my miner mk1 is 60/m, right? so i put this mk1 for iron ore and it says 120/m.. i am too confused to understand

if i put mk1, so then it will pick up 60/m or 120/m?

[sand garnet]

whatever the miner UI tells you is what it is producing

but you are limited by your belt too
mk1 belt = 60 per min

so you can have a miner produce 120 per min, onto a mk1 belt, meaning you will effectively produce 60 per min

[amber basin]

so i am understable that if i put miner mk1 that it saying 120/m so i have to put mk2 belt to take 120 per min and then split half for both 60 with mk1 belts right?

[amber basin]

alright, i just realised how it works now, thanks

[sand garnet]

yes you got it

[muted crypt]

Also, @amber basin, miners have a base extraction rate, but it is given a multiplier depending on the richness of the node you place it on.
Pure: 2x
Normal: 1x
Impure: 0.5x

If you place a mk1 miner on a pure node, it gives 60 x 2 = 120 ore per minute, which is what you were seeing

[keen flame]

BASED PATCH NOTES 🙏

[red plover]

sitting in tier 5 &.6 watching everyone celebrate or cry at the changes

[bleak coral]

Almost tempted to say I hate the changes just to stir shit up 😛

I'm a fan of the reduction in uranium waste though. 20 made it really appealing to only do nuclear with both unlocked.

[oblique hollow]

time to update my tiny nuclear build.
at least nitrogen isnt as much of a bottleneck now

[mortal veldt]

Its litterally the same with me...
At least im playing co-op...

[oblique hollow]

you celebrating or crying?

[mortal veldt]

Hmmm, well i do like playing co-op and its my first time really getting into bigger oil production and i am really starting to like it, sooo, well idk

[topaz hedge]

man, they really dropped the nitrogen usage.

It looks like aside from taking a trip to my nitric acid plant to see what's going on there.. I don't have to do anything to my setup after this balance pass... so that's nice

and now I have enough nitric acid to build another setup of equal size ^^

[frosty owl]

Ehe, fertile uranium can go Broom for the first time with this... Maybe?

I have hopes for it

[keen flame]

I'll be running the numbers betwen work tonight

[frosty owl]

I'll be waiting for the results then. Don't wanna run the simulations again :P

[keen flame]

I'm also making some updates to my calculator sheet

[topaz hedge]

Poor greenie

Somebody needs to buy than man a coffee.

[sand garnet]

His stuff is automated

[muted crypt]

doesn't it just grab from the files directly

[bleak coral]

he has a tool that does that, but it's not automatic

as in he has to be awake to run it

[obsidian musk]

@keen flame Part time systems engineer?

[keen flame]

Didn't bother to do the last recipe, but seems numbers are a lot more manageable now. plutonium units still seem way too overpriced to be worth it personally (huge bauxite/oil increase), but fertile uranium is actually very tempting now even if I'm sinking the plutonium, just for how much it saves on resources...

[keen flame]

One day, I hope XD I'm in the industry/that's one of my specializations but I'm pretty early into my career

[obsidian musk]

I know my programmer roots are showing, because I keep making module bases during the biofuel phase because it makes the power problems more easily managed.

[keen flame]

lmao. Would you believe I'm actually an artist professionally?

[obsidian musk]

Explains your use of the weighted color value in Excel

[keen flame]

I make my sheets pretty xD

[obsidian musk]

Please tell me I am not the only one who as moved their HUB to a base, this was mainly because copper doesn't mean much early game but the build location of the copper mine was very safe.

I figured out that if you split the power grids, you can keep some of the system processes working even when another generator runs out of fuel. So I broke up the grid by level of production type. Mining and Refining are on their grid, initial construction has its own, and advanced assembly has its own. So I can deliberately not fuel one section of the process to save on fuel when I want something to get backed up

[bleak coral]

Biomass burners scale so you can't actually waste fuel. If the fuel is burning it's cause it's needed. All you've done is divide the problem and reduced the potential stored energy from the buffers in the biomass burners.

[obsidian musk]

I deliberately want to have parts of the system off at certain points in time, using the biomass burners as a buffer gates

[bleak coral]

I'm not sure what you're accomplishing with this though

[obsidian musk]

Scaling production model using an inferior source supply, the building that I have made just to produce the parts needed to build almost all of the other building parts in the game runs on lower efficiency because I only need it to work like 20% of the time. Having it connected to the main power grid would just cause my breakers to trip

[bleak coral]

Ah you're doing clockspeeds without clockspeeds. Go find a slug 😉

[obsidian musk]

Slugs belong in miners, and I haven't found my auto slug harvesting lizarddoggo

[bleak coral]

You can also underclock

[obsidian musk]

Slug collecting by hands is meh

What is the power trade off of underclocking a miner?

[bleak coral]

Better power efficiency

underclocking saves power and overclocking costs power

[versed violet]

Suggestion: You may want to have the 'essential' infrastructure on separate grid too, eg all water/miners that fuel gens, hypertubes, truck stations etc, and give it a power buffer so it never ever trips. this way your power plants won't die due to lack of fuel

[bleak coral]

@obsidian musk if you want you can read about the specifics here: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Clock_speed#Clock_speed_for_production_buildings
but tldr: it's the same quadratic function that dictates power usage for both over and underclocking, so underclocking leads to better power efficiency compared to just running it 20% of the time (however you accomplish that), just as overclocking takes more power than just building another building.

[obsidian musk]

@bleak coral Nice, going to have to create a widget to make this a breeze to implement

[bleak coral]

I assume you'll do that for fun, but greeny's site has a codex that has a slider for that that works well if you just want something: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/codex/buildings

very useful for power production buildings as well, since their production/consumption is also non-linear

[obsidian musk]

I was going to use Unity to do a dynamic system balancing. Have it highlight the stuff that is running under effeciency

[versed violet]

Isn't there an efficiency checker mod already?

[obsidian musk]

Is there? I wanted a flat 2d Representation that I could drag and drop modules on

[versed violet]

As in excel, or ingame?

If you want ingame panel that you can drop pieces into, there was a mod in showcase that allowed such, can't remember name -> ask in moddy discord. (#welcome haz a link)

[obsidian musk]

I will have to check that out

[upbeat tide]

Am I reading this right? The single worst part of plutonium production removed?

[topaz hedge]

Yup, as well as making it possible to make more nitric from a given amount of nitrogen, and reducing nitrogen use across the board

I'm not sure I understand what halfing the uranium waste output of the reactors does though?

[upbeat tide]

Not sure either but to make ppl not so annoyed? Move from 5 to 20 was big

Wish I saw a mention of instant scrap tho in that report. Id love to see that alt useful

[topaz hedge]

prehaps. overall if you're already processing waste, it didn't matter much that they produced a silly amount. I suppose they did it so people who have one or two reactors can reasonably store waste, prehaps

[upbeat tide]

And here I was calculatong a 50.4 nuclear rod build and 20ish P rod setup 🙂

Glad it is still “calculating phase”

[topaz hedge]

I already built mine 😄 before infused cells and before the first rebalance. it's still kickin and I couldn't be happier with nuclear now that they've reduced nitrogen enough that I can build a second one on the otherside of my map

[upbeat tide]

Nice

I have been busy redoing my whole base from scratch. Decided to raze it all via SCIM

Just finished automating heavy mod frames to 60 a min. About to start on the non-nuclear components for nuclear rods. Beacons, electromag rods, and osscilators

[topaz hedge]

damn, I liked seeing screenshots of that base too. can't wait to see what you build next 😄

[upbeat tide]

Well, thats the 60/min HMF base

I did not do a total dumb. The OG save is saved in a archive.

[bleak coral]

Yeah basically what I figure it was for too. So that doing uranium before you have plutonium unlocked isn't as bad. Same amount of plutonium rods and waste, so it doesn't change anything once processed.

[cedar mica]

So how does the patch today, effect the nuclear numbers? Same numbers, just less nitogren?

[bleak coral]

and less bauxite with instant plutonium

but yeah I think max numbers should be the same, unless they left out a change in the patch notes

just less stuff used

[cedar mica]

Whats the relationship between uranium and plutonium now? Before, I could setup 20 uranium fuel rods and 40 plutoium fuel rods. Is it 20:10 now?

Aiming for 500GW total

[bleak coral]

same relationship, they cut the waste produced from uranium in half but also the waste needed too

[cedar mica]

Those numbers where from before they changed the burn/power of plutonium

[bleak coral]

ah, so yeah it's probably 20:10

[glacial tinsel]

the max was 50.4 and 22.4

i dont think that changes with the difference in waste

unless you use fertile

[cedar mica]

100 reactors running uranium, is 1000 waste now?

[bleak coral]

yeah

I assume you're not just using the regular recipes right?

[cedar mica]

Using all recipes, on satisfactorytools

But thats just a guideline, as making 500GW of power, dont use much resources anymore. So I can select recipes more freely

[bleak coral]

20 and 40 doesn't sound right, but whatever once greeny has his calc updated you can check and compare

[cedar mica]

20:10 consumes all the waste, between fertile uranium and plutonium pellet

[bleak coral]

oh gotcha

[marble coral]

I have no clue how to load balance this

[versed violet]

Make 6 smelters, 6 iron rod constructors and 3 iron plate constructirs, and it evens out. Then sink the excess rods/plates 😉

[upbeat tide]

If you have mk3 belts, dont bother to load balance. Just manifold it straight down one long line 🙂 or side by side lines

[marble coral]

well this is what I have

[upbeat tide]

Foundations 🙂

Get some crete running, and thus reborn into foundation richiousness

[obsidian musk]

Still love the woosh as you give half of your inventory to build the space elevator

[marble coral]

Oh I know about them, im not using the though

[red plover]

This man is on a mission to do something utterly ridiculous and I'm watching with great interest

[upbeat tide]

This channel is filled with masocists...and as a member of the club... 🙂

[bleak coral]

if you don't want to manifold, don't combine all of the 5.4 smelter outputs in the first place. Have separate sets of 2.85 and 2.55 miners.

happily is the same number of smelters here too, just have to change clockspeeds

[marble coral]

well I physically cant manifold cause I only have mk2

[bleak coral]

oh then yeah do the keep the smelters separate thing

[red plover]

Manifold on underclocked machines

[bleak coral]

meh, at mk1/2 belts I prefer load balanced myself

too slow for manifolds

[marble coral]

there is a simple solution to this that I skipped over, make a smelter that makes 85.5 a minute, and then have another that makes 76.5 a minute, and since its 1:1 I dont need to change the input of 162

[bleak coral]

you can't have one smelter make either of those numbers, you need at least two each

those are more than 250%

[marble coral]

I mean keep the same number of smelters but just change the values

[bleak coral]

oh, like what I said earlier? that's what I meant, did I say it in a confusing way?

[marble coral]

I guess so, yeah

[iron prairie]

So, I've been thinking:

1. There's presently an enormous gap between default oil processing and end-game diluted fuel + recycled R/P shenanigans. You can get 4.5x more total product per crude oil, and is very flexible in the balance of fuel/plastic/rubber. This makes a set of alts almost mandatory, which can't be fun for players who dislike HDD hunting.

2. The blender introduces possibilities for new, more complicated oil processing. So... what if in tier 7/8, there's a milestone, "Advanced Oil Processing" which introduces new plastic/rubber/fuel recipes to help bridge the gap?

[bleak coral]

Some inefficient, but fast way to add closed loops without hard drives?

[iron prairie]

It'd take some development to ensure there aren't any weird infinite loops, but you could have some moderately complicated processing?

[bleak coral]

Maybe something that utilizes both HOR and the currently neglected polymer resin?

[iron prairie]

I was thinking "not as efficient as the current meta, but still much better than current default", and you're thinking a lot like me there.

[bleak coral]

And I definitely would love to see polymer resin get some love, it's quite underutilized

to be honest I think half of it is that you basically have to find all the hard drives to ensure you get all the recipes. I think removing the random element and making it an unlockable tree that lets you at least somewhat choose what recipes you get would go a long way to opening up alts to more casual players. As it stands right now you're either dedicated enough to keep going until you get what you need, or deal with what you get.

[iron prairie]

I sort of like the variety in intermediate setups, like "I don't have heavy encased frames yet, so do I run default or heavy flexible?", but the diluted fuel alts are so transformative as to be almost mandatory.

[bleak coral]

I feel the opposite, I don't like recipes that feel like they're there as "filler" so you only use them if you have to. I'd rather each recipe bring something to the table and be usable rather than just "this is what I've got so I'll use it"

Like I'd much rather flexible just appeal to another set of players who don't go after efficiency than just kinda be there

[iron prairie]

As a prototype:

Blender Fuel: 60 crude + 20 HOR -> 90 fuel + 60 polymer resin
Blender Plastic: 30 polymer resin + 40 fuel + 30 water -> 60 plastic + 10 water
Blender Rubber: 40 polymer resin + 30 fuel + 30 water -> 60 rubber + 10 water

The thinking:

1. Blender fuel is imbalanced towards fuel vs. polymer resin, meaning some sort of creativity is required.
   i) If you have the polymer resin alt, this supplements resin and provides a bit of HOR
   ii) Use it for power
   iii) Recycled rubber/plastic can also use up the remaining fuel in the absence of the full HOR -> diluted fuel -> recycling chain

2. It requires a trickle of HOR, which none of these recipes provide. An all-defaults run can do some default rubber production, and use the HOR from there.
   i) Once again, having some, but not all, of the alts can help: the HOR and polymer resin alts both supplement the deficiencies of all-defaults processing.

3. Recycled water because why not?

And, now I have another idea, this time for an alt recipe:

Purified Fuel: 60 crude oil -> 70 fuel + 10 sulfur + 10 nitrogen

Fuel is a bit lower than other recipes, partially to balance it, and partially because I'm sure everybody will love a 6:7 ratio. This one is inspired a little bit by RP-1, a highly refined type of kerosene used in rocket engines. This fuel takes pains to remove sulfur, and possibly nitrogen, so as to minimize buildup of residue in the engine.

In-game, it'd be a method to squeeze out a bit more of two rare resources at the cost of less efficient production of fuel/plastic/rubber.

[iron prairie]

Suggestion now posted here: https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/60713196aa0ba107e32576f8

[knotty yarrow]

The blender doesn’t have two fluid outputs, we might have to do without the Nitrogen

[iron prairie]

(I realized that for my Q&A post, and split it into two recipes)

[tardy slate]

personally think the alternate is too strong and also the recycled water is just a pain and yea scaped is right about the no 2nd output

[muted crypt]

it's the mk2 pipes and mk5 belts that have the rounding issues that can cause problems for throughput, right?

i.e. you generally don't want to run them at full?

[iron prairie]

The issues are exaggerated by their high speed: I'm given to understand all pipes/belts can suffer issues if run at full capacity, with T2 pipes/T5 belts being the worst offenders.

[muted crypt]

given a short distance, such as a pure oil node overclocked to 250% leading immediately into a junction via mk2 pipe, with two mk1 pipes coming out, do you think the issues will be that significant?

I'm about to build a turbofuel plant for 3600 turbofuel per minute, I don't exactly want to get anything wrong lol

[wind spade]

I've updated data to latest version btw

[keen patio]

My understanding of how you want to avoid the bug is to always use mk2 pipes (not mk1s at 300m^3).. and avoid running the Mk2's at max capacity.

[muted crypt]

so it's better to use mk2s only half full instead of mk1s at full?

[keen patio]

Thats how it was explained to me.

basically run nothing at max speed belt/pipe limits if you can avoid it

[muted crypt]

interesting, noted

[keen patio]

that being said, the 'loss' is still gonna be miniscule.. 1-3% ish

[muted crypt]

is that just overall, or is it based on going a certain distance?

[wind spade]

any pipes and mk4/5 belts should not be run at full speed, but max around 90-95%

[keen patio]

I imagine that distance pushes the issue to the higher (worse) end of the spectrum.

[muted crypt]

hmm, noted

I'm currently building myself a zipline to navigate there, since I don't plan to make it connected via train (nor can I afford to do so with my given power situation...)

[oak garnet]

is this a known bug that will be fixed?

[muted crypt]

It's not even that far away, relatively speaking, so I think the zipline would look cool.

[wind spade]

it's a relatively known bug that will probably be fixed eventually, but it's better not to rely on it being fixed soon, as it's been around for over a year now (and for obvious reasons it's not super high priority)

[dark cairn]

That bug caused my power to be unstable. I just fixed it after troubleshooting off and on for awhile now. Two or three plants would just keep toggling off because they weren't getting enough water. Once I realized I mathed wrong (calculating 50 instead of 45), I realized I joined one pipe too early which caused it to hit a flow rate of 300. I moved the joint down a little bit and the power line instantly stabilized.

[oblique hollow]

mk 4 is pretty save tbh

mk 5 has the most noticable loss rate

[fringe crow]

If I remember correctly. Belts > Trains unless you're traveling half way across the map right?

[sand garnet]

belts for short range, trains for long range

[upbeat tide]

And if you dont care about transport efficiency, trucks/drones for mid range

As in needs to be 100% throughput or things stop working type efficiency

[red plover]

So, as a theoretical use case, I'm building with microfactories rn, and a system that doesn't require efficiency is a storage room (which is both time and resource inefficient), but it is convenient... So, good to use trucks / drones to stock your storage room, but don't lean on them for your nuclear production lines

... right?

[sand garnet]

wonders if the teleporting trucks are technically the most optimal method of transportation...

as in: create full path > delete all the nodes except the few around the load/ unload stations so they teleport super long distances when out of range of player

[vast jungle]

I would guess this doesn't change the total speed of the truck

[sand garnet]

it does

you can literally teleport the truck across the map if you delete all the nodes between them

because it teleports from pathing node to pathing node

[vast jungle]

And it doesn't stand still for a certain time afterwards to account for the jump?

[sand garnet]

so if there are no pathing nodes for 7km, it'll just teleport 7km instantly

as far as I know, no, it doesnt stand still

[upbeat tide]

Never knew u could delete nodes like that in a vehicle path

[sand garnet]

yeah its interesting, and im genuinely curious as to how that affects 'ideal' transport

[red plover]

You can also edit pause nodes to change the pause length

[frosty owl]

You can't put negative pause values... Right?

[shy mason]

Would it tranvese the path in reverse then?

[frosty owl]

Saves time each node

[daring sonnet]

so, I was told this is the thread for the message below:

"if anyone is interested: the max 252 nuclear reactors would produce 2520 urawaste/min, which translates to 59.73 plutrod/min, which in turn means aprox. 600 more nuclear reactors... which means aprox. 1500GW... jeezus
on top of the 630GW from uranium, the total energy nuclear reactors can output is aprox. 2100 GW"

[red plover]

I have no idea how or if they scrub user input like that for invalid values lol. Only one way to find out....

[frosty owl]

Are these numbers "up to patch"?

[red plover]

2.1 terawatts!

[daring sonnet]

they should be, I used greeny's U4 calc

[frosty owl]

Yeah, but that doesn't calculate how much waste you produce ^^

[daring sonnet]

considering 2520 urawaste/min from 252 reactors

[red plover]

We've reached a new order of magnitude so now we can standardize TW

[frosty owl]

Waste production got halved from 100 per rod yesterday

Should be 50 per rod now I think (haven't checked in-game)

[daring sonnet]

yeah, 50 every 300 secs right?

[sand garnet]

greeny's calc is up to date afaik

so as long as the numbers are correct for waste it should™️ be fine

but 2.1TW seems very high

[frosty owl]

If one rod still takes 5 min to burn, yeah ^^

[daring sonnet]

I'm using wiki reference, 50 barrels of waste every 300 secs (5min) from a 100% reactor, that would mean 10 barrels/min, right?

[frosty owl]

As mentioned in #patch-notes: from 20 to 10/min

[daring sonnet]

yeah, so greeny's calc outputs 59.73 plutrods/min

since it takes 10 min to burn a plutrod, that means 597.3 nuc reactors, I hope my math is right

[frosty owl]

Mhhh, I'm unsure how we finally have more plutonium power than uranium power... But I'm glad it is so

[daring sonnet]

so... if my math is right, it outputs a total of 1.493.250 MW

the real total would be 2.123.250 MW (because we would already have 630.000 MW from uranium reactors)

[frosty owl]

Wait, was the uranium nerfed again?
One less impure node? (From 2100 total to 1800)

[daring sonnet]

didn't know that... really?

[frosty owl]

No, it was just a residue from a previous simulation I ran
False alarm

[shrewd yacht]

any plan to bring back the power calucator @wind spade ?

would be nice to say I need x power from fuel generators, what do I need to set up to supply that

[daring sonnet]

I know I'm not really helping saying it, but if you have the energy output, the calc should be straightforward

like, divide the energy per generator and multiply by consumption

[sand garnet]

yeah seems fairly straight forward to do manually

would be interesting to see a power calculation ran alongside any setup calculation

where you can just choose what type of power you want and it'll tell you what you need to build for that

[fierce ruin]

is it not there already?

[frosty owl]

Pioneers these days are getting lazier and lazier

[sand garnet]

so lets say you choose 10 turbomotors
it'll also show you a second graph showing a setup for power generation

to match the power for that 10 turbomotor production

[shrewd yacht]

hover pack is only manual right?

didn't look at it yet

[sand garnet]

what do you mean by manual

[shrewd yacht]

you can't automate it

manufacturer

[daring sonnet]

no

Though I'm curious to know, why would you automate it?

[sand garnet]

oh no its equipment

you can automate portable miners in U4 though

[frosty owl]

Make 6 smelters, clock them all the same (5.4 / 6) and just split in 6

[sand garnet]

my brain hurts reading that

[frosty owl]

Load balancing have made my brain surpass the folding limits of paper

[fierce ruin]

the greatest anime rivalry

[daring sonnet]

I always thought you could load balance everything by dividing in equal parts and sending the rest to the belt root, can't you?

like, if you have to divide by 5, you do 2 splitters, then 3 per each splitter, and send 1 exit back to the entrance

[shrewd yacht]

really hope they change the bauxite blender recipe, its completely useless as it is

no smart person would use sulfur for this when you've got so much spare oil to work with

[frosty owl]

Yeah, that's one way to do it.
I do that or separate the overflow and balance the rest easily or (as mentioned) change machines' clock so the splits become easier (split in 6 Vs split in 5 and 0.4 in earlier example)

[marble coral]

I already solved the problem

[daring sonnet]

I never thought of that, but it makes perfect sense, even more now that we can float the hell out of over/under clocks

[frosty owl]

In which way? ^^
Also, nice to see you here xD

[marble coral]

I made it so that 3 smelters were making the 85.5, and the other 3 smelters were making 76.5

Ended up making my power graph nice and linear

[fierce ruin]

is it not always linear

[marble coral]

When things start up yeah

But that will most likely change, since I’m going to make a steel beam factory with an output of 45 a minute but 21 going to make versatile framework

[frosty owl]

To keep the graph linear (I wanna have that endgame too, one day xD) I have separate power grids for railways/particle accelerators or whatever have fluctuating power draws

Just have the geothermal take care of that part of the grid :P

[marble coral]

Oh god trying to be linear with the particle accelerators would be atrocious

[frosty owl]

You simply can't xD
Just like with trains
I mean, sure, the average is linear, but if you wanna have that smooth line you'd need to set 60/90 of them down and offset their production cicles accordingly... Quite the pain, tbh

[unkempt acorn]

Oooooh my god, thank you Devs! halfing uranium output!

means my storage system will now last twice as long... 700+ hours hehe

[marble coral]

And that’s why I’m enjoying the ease of linear now

[fierce ruin]

F 500 stacked waste

[marble coral]

Hell no that fucks up everything in my other save

[unkempt acorn]

in the patch notes?

"Halved Uranium Waste output (From 20 to 10 per minute)"

[marble coral]

Yeah cause I was making 360 a minute and I needed 340

[unkempt acorn]

it literally means ill never have to worry about my waste issue ever again 🤣

[marble coral]

Lucky you

[unkempt acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/world-star-hey-girl-hey-there-when-you-see-your-crush-feeling-yourself-gif-10356876

[bleak coral]

They also halved it's usage, so you don't need 340 anymore

[oblique hollow]

that actually conservers the waste ratios

so your factory will keep working

just..... you produce less

[bleak coral]

yeah it should be the same amount of plut rods and plut waste just takes half the amount of uranium waste which is now getting produced at half the amount

[frosty owl]

Have greeny's recipes been updated yet?

[bleak coral]

yes

had fun for a second though with a cached page that pulled some of the new recipes but not all of them though

for a second I was like "it's 350:1 waste:plutonium rods now? that's so weird!"

reload the page, it's probably cached

codex is one giant page

[frosty owl]

Ffs, I though I had already

[bleak coral]

I know, those cached pages are stubborn in a modern browser

[frosty owl]

Praise Greeny

[bleak coral]

really annoying for my webcomic group in firefox, I basically have to reload them twice cause it always grabs the cached page on first load

[wind spade]

the whole website is technically one page

so unless you refresh, you won't get newer data

cache should be "disabled"

or rather, prevented from doing wrong things

everytime there's a new version, the data file has different name, so if you open the website, it loads the correct data file

[bleak coral]

oh while you're here, how will you handle the tabs when U4 hits EA? will you just update the main site and whatever's already on there will be on there? and the u4 experimental stuff will be lost?

[gilded coyote]

when i overclock a machine to a certain amount of items/min that results in a non-exact percentage (like 33,3333...%) is the resulting speed exactly that amount of items or is there an small error? If there is, should i care about it or is it negligible?

[mystic moon]

I have a question as well
So when you said that cache should be disabled, did you mean that you have it disabled on your website with something like this

    <meta http-equiv="Cache-Control" content="no-cache, no-store, must-revalidate"/>
     <meta http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache"/>
     <meta http-equiv="Expires" content="0"/>

Or does the end user need to clear cache to make it work?

[bleak coral]

there's a small error if you need to go beyond the exactness of the UI, so I'd round up
but also now that we have 4 decimals to play with that error will be really really small

[mystic moon]

This is probably a convo for #off-topic-tech if we want to continue it i guess

[gilded coyote]

Alright, thanks. I was asking mainly to know if the actual speed is computed with the percentage or the target items/min as that changes things a little bit

[bleak coral]

I think it's still the percentage, but maybe that changed with update. Try putting in the exact items/min, exit the interface, and then reopen that. If it's still the same items/min and not changed to match the closest available clockspeed then it has more precision than it shows or the error is so negligible it all gets rounded away in the UI.

[gilded coyote]

Nice, thank you!

[frosty owl]

I'm lead to believe the machines can work with weird percentages too, if you still input an exact number in the "parts per minute" field
Eg: You have a machine making 30 item/min and want 20 item/min (2/3). IF clock it to 66.6667% it should ||I'm a bit unsure here|| update the PPM field to 20.0001 or similar. But if you put 20 in the PPM field, it will not update to 20.0001 while still showing a clock of "66.6667%"

[bleak coral]

That would make some sense. Pure speculation here but it could work exactly as before but now uses floats for clockspeed instead of integers. So it can be more precise than the stuff we type in, so when it derives the clockspeed from the items/min input it gets more decimals to work with.

[frosty owl]

Cuts on rare resources introduced by the latest patch compared to before for Max Plutorium (Max uranium + Max Plutonium, only plutonium waste produced)
Nitrogen: 8512 -> 4032 (-4480)
Bauxite: 1493.33 -> 597.33 (-896)
Quartz: 1972.8 -> 1908 (-64.8)
Sulfur: No change

[keen flame]

these numbers seem wildly wrong. absolute max should only be about 1.1 TW and that's using maximum secondary resources too

[frosty owl]

I was gonna point it out xD
Maybe he hasn't reload the page enough ^^

[keen flame]

also, sulfur went down across the board

I did all of my calculations by hand instead of using greeny's xD

[bleak coral]

The numbers are wildly wrong for any patch. Waste to rods has never been less than 100:6.67

[keen flame]

right now uranium:waste is 1:1.2

If you're using best uranium recipes, at least

[bleak coral]

I meant uranium waste:plutonium rods, sorry should have been more specific

[keen flame]

oh got it lol

my real question is: do you think we're close to what the final balance numbers will be for release... 👀

I've been absolutely itching to do a full factory plan

[bleak coral]

Btw, is there an agreed upon correct ratio of uranium rods to plutonim rods when using fertile uranium? Last time I checked you, silly, and vencam all had different ratios.

[keen flame]

the math gets really wonky because of how fertile works, but I'm fairly certain my numbers are correct. it depends heavily on if you're using instant cells or plutonium pellets too

[wind spade]

I mean that app.json is loaded with version parameter

[wind spade]

have some ideas for now, but nothing concrete

[keen flame]

Here's what I had:
Fertile > pellets > rods: 31.5:15.75 (perfect 2:1)
Fertile > pellets > units: 31.5:23.625 (4:3)
Fertile > Instant > rods: ~22.9:20.3635 (huge rounding errors, around 9:8)
Fertile > instant > Units: ~22.9:30.545 (rounding errors again, should be ~3:4)

[marble coral]

Is there a way I can clean this ugly center mess?

[supple mural]

take one of the 30's and split it to all the others

[frosty owl]

Not until fertile uranium starts making sense, I think

[keen flame]

I think it makes sense now tbh. accounting for rounding errors, the ratios are all very clean now

[frosty owl]

Merge it all, split in 3...
I was gonna say, but yeah, I guess you should listen to Death's advice until you get mk2

[keen flame]

https://imgur.com/a/TnomMFk#0exj38K

[bleak coral]

That looks like even more of a mess lol

[keen flame]

not really. it's cleaner overall and more reliable

[marble coral]

but thats 4 input to 4 outputs

[keen flame]

oh I linked the wrong one, sec

[supple mural]

balancers are only really important when you have unreliable inputs

[keen flame]

the other option is to just split one of the 30's into 3 10's

[wind spade]

in satisfactory there's pretty much nothing like unreliable input

[marble coral]

I mean this is all im working with

[supple mural]

you can also go with balancers if you want to have some fun

[frosty owl]

Meh... I really think that's not worth the loss of power and extra plutonium waste.
IMO fertile should either let you skimp on more resources or offer more power by giving you much more plutonium than without sacrificing nuclear power
Right now you just trade some of your max capacity for... convenient ratios? 🤷‍♂️

[keen flame]

I'm eventually going to be building a balancer on the scale of, uh, 100:100

[supple mural]

it would be easier to go with 128:128

[keen flame]

I think it's very worth it. fertile drops your secondary resource consumption by quite a bit (nitrogen in particular) at the expense of some max power. it's actually temping enough that I may use it

[supple mural]

and just loop the extra 28 back into themselves i guess

[keen flame]

tbh that's what I meant, I'm just brain fogged LOL

[supple mural]

kek

[keen flame]

(vaccine yesterday so I'm super out of it)

[supple mural]

understandable

[keen flame]

As a complete sidenote: I feel like I'm having a fever dream talking to an anime girl named "god of hyperdeath"

[supple mural]

i do my best

[fierce ruin]

Donald and Nagasaki triggered

[oblique hollow]

And you think talking to a dragon is more normal? xd

[supple mural]

huh, i thought instant plut cell was in a blender

[frosty owl]

About 1.3k nitrogen, 1.4k quartz and probably a few hundreds of caterium saved, but uses up 220 more bauxite...
Eh, I guess I can see the appeal...

[supple mural]

was that changed or am i just being a dum dum?

[keen flame]

I'm a furry, that's 90% of my daily interaction

[oblique hollow]

Im a freakin dust pile

[marble coral]

wasnt actually that hard

[oblique hollow]

and vencam is just a logo

[marble coral]

I thought it was concrete powder

[frosty owl]

Accelerator ^^

[oblique hollow]

ashes of wario

[supple mural]

i c

[keen flame]

bauxite gets used much faster for some recipes than others when changing to fertile, but it's a pretty negligible increase unless you're doing plutonium fuel units (which, imo, are still imbalanced and not worth the resource consumption)

[frosty owl]

Beautiful balancing on terrain

[oblique hollow]

eh, just manifold it

[marble coral]

n o

[fierce ruin]

says the guy who nuked his last save

[marble coral]

shhh shut up

[keen flame]

I hate manifolds personally XD I use them a lot but I try to load balance when possible

load balancing just requiers a lot of work so sometimes I get lazy

[supple mural]

manifolds are just long load balancers

[frosty owl]

I actually think the cost is countered by how handy the recipe itself is. I mean, you save on half the plutonium cells and only need assemblers and to bring less then a mk1 belt worth of material...

[oblique hollow]

once the programmable splitter isnt shit anymore (aka you can set ratios) and just costs computers, then everyone will just do that

[bleak coral]

would you guys who like load balancing actually like a splitter that does exact % splitting?

I feel like it would kill the fun of load balancing

[frosty owl]

If you can't spare supercomputers, you're a very poor pioneer :P

[oblique hollow]

you mean i need a supercomputer in order to count items

[supple mural]

you'd still have plenty of early game to do load balancing while you wait to unlock the programable splitter

[bleak coral]

I don't think that'll hurt manifolds, at least at the machine level. They'd still be way more compact.

[keen flame]

changing from rods to units generally more than doubles bauxite usage, nearly triples oil usage, and increases quartz and nitrogen by a bit. nitrogen increase isn't bad, nor is the quartz, it's the oil and bauxite that aren't worth it imo, even for the ~200GW of extra power

[oblique hollow]

damn i wonder how what the normal computer does then.

[frosty owl]

I think it'd partly kill it, but at the same time some numbers are just monstruos to balance.
I think just having more options for dividing would be fine.
Eg: select a % of input, only integers accepted

Something that still has limitations

[keen flame]

load balancing is "fun" but it's a hugepain in the ass to set up for large-scale, so an endgame splitter that can do it automatically would be a godsend

[oblique hollow]

with percentages, you get funny things like with valves and pipes

so you actually increase complexity

[keen flame]

Valves already make me incredibly happy XD

[bleak coral]

Maybe we just need a valve equivalent instead of a smarter splitter

[supple mural]

valves make me incredibly unhappy because they dont actually limit the flow to what you set in it's UI

[frosty owl]

But you'll still need those quartz/nitrogen and such for pressure cubes anyway if you wanna max the allu side of production (which basically funnels everything in TM, Pressure cubes, cooling systems and batteries)

[oblique hollow]

oop, dont have 60 / min going in? well, that "17 %" setting will now not split off 10,2 / min

[marble coral]

I nicely got 40 and 40 for each input :)

[supple mural]

they are useful for stopping fluid from backflowing, though

[frosty owl]

So why not just throw the spare pressure volumes into more power rather then a sink? xD

[keen flame]

because I'm planning to sink the rods... xD

[oblique hollow]

the issue is that the flow through them depends on pressure.
a half empty pipe will deliver half the set flow

[frosty owl]

I didn't say it had to be easy to use :P
It'd be for very nerdy users after all, I think

[keen flame]

and because one of my goals is in fact to sink as much as possible

[oblique hollow]

if you put a pump before a valve, you can force them to approach their limit very fast

[keen flame]

I feel like I should log in in a sec and show you what my load balance/backflow solution was before the fluids update...

[supple mural]

i get that part, but when i have a full pipe, and set it to 55, it only delivers 54.3 fluid/min
and when i set it to 56, it goes up to 57 fluid/min

[frosty owl]

Then no, of course it doesn't make sense to the cubes, points-wise
Btw, the whole "ingredient is worth more than the end-product" issue is back here... funny I didn't notice before

[supple mural]

yeah, rods arent worth many points despite being hard to make

[bleak coral]

now I'm thinking of if you went into someone's world and put a valve in the wrong direction right after every pump, and place them really close so they'd be hard to see from a distance 😈

[keen flame]

wth which? plutonium rods?

[oblique hollow]

i had that too when i fixed your blenders and generators, and it didnt affect anything

i actually think its more of a display bug

[supple mural]

id need to not be lazy, and test it, but im pretty sure its not a display bug

my testing would involve staring at a machine the processes fluid for a long time

[frosty owl]

Plutonium rods are worth 153'184 points vs the 257'312 of the pressure cubes ^^ (I noticed this issue with the "pressure turbo motors" recipe, got fixed by using 2 cubes for 1 TM)

[bleak coral]

isn't that issue every time pressure cubes are used for anything but nuclear pasta? cause they're like one of the most complex things and only nuclear pasta is more complex?

[keen flame]

Ah yeah, in terms of sink value. I think this is the one case where it's "fine" because the return on plutonium isn't sink value, it's power potential/waste recycling

[frosty owl]

At the moment, out of 3 items using the pressure cubes only the fuel rods are worth less coupons than the sum of their input materials

[supple mural]

actually, its kind of moot to argue that the rods should be more than the cubes when using plut unit

because anyone that is using plutonium unit is going to turn it into power

[oblique hollow]

and pasta is kinda worthless

[topaz hedge]

Shh pasta is tasty

[supple mural]

its a very nice decoration

[oblique hollow]

too bad i cant eat it

[supple mural]

my storage room has some nice nuclear pasta night lights along the walls

[frosty owl]

You ship it or you sink it, but it is worth the effort of producing it, points-wise (I think)

[bleak coral]

I think they're still worse for turbo motors. Remember their points got nerfed too. If the wiki is still right they're now worth 204 584 points vs pressure cubes's 244 736 points. And it takes 1 cube to make 1 motor.

[oblique hollow]

when i first sunk one it barely netted me any points

[frosty owl]

@bleak coral

[bleak coral]

I don't get what you're pointing out.

[topaz hedge]

Sounds like turbopressure could use a rebalance... considering how expensive those cubes are

[frosty owl]

The thing about turbomotors got fixed, as they now take 1 cube to make 2 turbomotors

[bleak coral]

oh wait, wiki is not up to date on turbo motors

got it

or it is, wait

[topaz hedge]

I'm working on a factorie to make 20/min for.. pasta 🍝 and that factory ain't no joke

[bleak coral]

what was I looking at lol

[topaz hedge]

it looks like 1 makes two

[frosty owl]

Did you remember to refresh the page?

[bleak coral]

it's this: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Pressure_Conversion_Cube
for some reason it's still using the old usage, even though it's been like a week since that recipe got updated on the turbo motor page (which is where it should be pulling the data from)

[frosty owl]

Consider you can use up to 30.54/min (max plutonium) or 22.4/min (max plutorium) just for power if you use the alt using them for the plutonium rods

[frosty owl]

Blame @deft lichen

[bleak coral]

the recipe display stuff is all weird, I don't get it

like if I look at a past page to try to see how a recipe used to be, it'll show the latest recipe even if the source isn't giving it that data

also can take a bit to update, but a week seems excessive

[marble coral]

I have no clue how to do this

[bleak coral]

I don't think you can

[marble coral]

actually let me try something

[bleak coral]

well I guess you could get it down to belts of 0.5, but at that point it might just be better to overclock so you can do 1:1

or underclock and add a machine

[fierce ruin]

separate to two and under clock

[bleak coral]

that'll force the page to update? does that work if I'm looking at a previous revision to see what a recipe used to be?

[deft lichen]

it clears cache

works with recipes

[supple mural]

that's really close to a 1:2 ratio... you can split the incoming belt into three and send two of those to the right side, one to the left

[fierce ruin]

false balancer

[supple mural]

yeh, itll be off by a bit

but... otherwise hell need to split it out to 20ths

[fierce ruin]

but it'll over flow

[daring sonnet]

@keen flame I don't get why the numbers are wrong. The max reactors you can achieve is 252, that means 2520 uranium waste/min, does it not? if that is the case, you input 2520 in greeny's calculator and it shows 59.73 plutonium rods/ min. Where is it wrong?

[topaz hedge]

but we like clean nooclear in our world D:

[frosty owl]

The result is. Try refreshing the tool's page, it's probably using cached data

[daring sonnet]

what do you get when you input 2520 waste/min? just out of curiosity

[keen flame]

^ you should be seeing half of that number of plutonium rods or less, dpending on what alternates you're using

[daring sonnet]

ok, why? I'm totally fine with being wrong, but I'd love to see your results so I can know where

[keen flame]

greeny's is just breaking for me

I did most of my numbers by hand though, and I got this:

Using the "best" alts for plutonium, I got 30.545 plutonium rods/minute and ~22.9 uranium rods/minute (using fertile uranium, which consumes raw uranium as well)

[wind spade]

what broke for you?

[wind spade]

link?

[keen flame]

(I don't use the calculator much so it could be user error)

[wind spade]

send me the share link so I can have a look

[keen flame]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=qQNSjEOs4tyCLQRD6KPa

[wind spade]

ah, the classic

waste cannot be "produced", so you have to put it in input

[topaz hedge]

no input of uranium waste XD

[wind spade]

I should really put a message about that xD

[daring sonnet]

ok, I cleared the cache, and still...

[keen flame]

Ahhh that'll do it xD

@daring sonnet what alternates are you using? are you using fertile uranium?

[topaz hedge]

fixed(tm) https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=06iiWJN5tW7m8GQFGB3I

[keen flame]

ok, I'm taking a look at this, this is also showing 59.73

[frosty owl]

This is how the normala Plutorium looks (Max Plutonium from max nuclear)

[daring sonnet]

without alternates?

[keen flame]

Oh, I see the problem. It's assuming that you can use 100% of raw uranium for fertile

because it doesn't realize that you're consuming uranium to produce waste

[topaz hedge]

ah yes

I thought that was a little high. no alts and it gives us 12.6 plutonium fuel rods a miunte.

[keen flame]

Using non-fissile instead of fertile, you should get 50.4 uranium rods and 22.4 plutonium rods (if using instant cells and plutonium units)

[bleak coral]

yup I'm seeing it too, that's what the calc comes up with if you turn on fertile without taking into account that fertile takes away from the max waste you can make

[frosty owl]

See picture above for reference