math-and-meta

[frosty owl]

I mean, they have so much space between them vertically (especially when you have rows with input facing each-other) that I think the extra space below is pretty much useless. More convenient to go up and save on both time and item count

[upbeat tide]

such as this set of 4 refineries needs 600 total water. 120 comes from outside and the rest is the byproduct

[cold snow]

i started doing it this way

[dense leaf]

That's a nice color palette @upbeat tide

[shy mason]

Have some walls and pipe wall holes flow and you can loop the waste water back to beginning underneath. I've got my aluminum site over a crater lake as well so the water extractors are below refineries as well.

[frosty owl]

Yeah, but you see what I mean when you look from below. You get those weird "scaffolds" below the floor, not big enough to be worth making a whole floor for them. And when you try to stack such floors...

[shy mason]

Silica forward as well if you aren't using the sloppy formulae

[frosty owl]

At this point, I'd rather have the beltwork pile up in the "canyons" that are the spaces between refineries rows and add a couple foundations to the side for management

[upbeat tide]

you wont see any of the under levels once its done

for example

[shy mason]

Hopefully it doesn't back up on a mk1 belt or pipe somewhere

[dense leaf]

I like clipping frame foundations into the top of a 1m for that purpose

But sadly refineries don't interject nicely with them, so there's a tradeoff

[frosty owl]

Kind of a Meh solution tbf

[upbeat tide]

to each our own I suppose

[proven sphinx]

how was the fluid system, it was 3 extractors for 1 full pipe of water? or was it 5 for 2 pipes?

[shy mason]

So who uses sloppy alumina solution vs original silica output?

[frosty owl]

I mean, the underfloors add some nice detail to your factories, why block them off like that? XD

[cold snow]

5 for 1 mk2 pipe

[proven sphinx]

so long since i played xD i am trying to remember D:

[shy mason]

Mk2 pipes came out a few months ago, all good.

[upbeat tide]

sloppy

vs not sloppy

[frosty owl]

What bothers me the most is not the look of it (they're lovely, imo)
It's just that it doesn't really save time NOR space all things considered :/
At least not if the underfloor serves only one floor :wink:

[upbeat tide]

I like sloppy simply due to the silica needs. is soo high

[cold snow]

so why don't you put the belts on a foundation above the pipes like i did? 🤔

[shy mason]

Or pipes above belts here

[upbeat tide]

have done that before, wanted a different take this time

[cold snow]

that bugs out way too often for me

[frosty owl]

Once I considered having a crawling floor (a FULL one, not just small trenches) and have it serve the whole building above (every floor) things started to get really interesting. Saving space and having great looks finally started going hand in hand with saving time and item-count too ahahah

[shy mason]

You can press r while you have pipes being built to change pipe style that makes it easier to make it fit

[frosty owl]

I actually prefer to have the belts on ground-level
I don't like the look of mergers/splitters mid-air xD
What do you mean by "they bug out to me"?

[cold snow]

the pipes sometimes don't want to connect nicely

[shy mason]

One of the pipe styles usually fit for me unless it's just too close

[frosty owl]

Ah. Yeah, I can see that 😆
If it can be of consolation, you can learn to not have them bug... Takes some experience and annoying trial-errors though 😅

[cold snow]

yeah sometimes it should work and worked on the building 3 meters away but doesnt want to work on the next one

[frosty owl]

Remember the order in which you build them is important too

[cold snow]

the pipe intersections first, then the pipes^^

[frosty owl]

Pipe from A to B is different from pipe from B to A

[shy mason]

Especially with the vertical pipe style option

[frosty owl]

Exactly. So just merge our 2 comments together ahahah

[cold snow]

ah you meant that, yeah i'm taking care of that

i just noticed i some bugged conveyors in that factory...

connecting a refinery output to that exact same output

[frosty owl]

An example of what I meant earlier @upbeat tide . One underfloor here manages the belts for 2 floors of assemblers above it (while still being only half the width of the building). One floor gets resources from pillars on the left, the next on the right (pillars work as support too). Considering this is all a balanced system, I think it manages to save quite some time while keeping some important points true:
-Stackable design
-All floors have minimum sizes (for a BALANCED SYSTEM, that is xD) but still have plenty of walking space (belts to be covered by glass or walkways later)
-All floors receive the exact amount of items/min needed
-All inputs are managed on the bottom floor
-Easily expandable by adding floors
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553550313533997057/813508850350030858/Screenshot20210222-00033600000.png

You can notice the "input pillar" on the right, top floor, between 2 sets of assemblers

[frosty owl]

EXP?

[cold snow]

yep, happened on the version before u4

[brazen folio]

So i feel like the amount of Uranium Waste needed to create plutonium is way to high.

from what i have seen I need the waste output from 12.5 Uranium run Nuclear plants to run 1 Plutonium

[cold snow]

according to greeny's calc you can get 25.56 plutonium fuel rods from a powerplant that runs with 30 uranium fuel rods

[brazen folio]

yeah i was a bit off. A Nuclear Power Plant Using Plutonium running at 100% needs .4 Plu Rods. A manufacture running at 80% makes .4 Plu rods and uses 6 Plu Cells. An Assembler at 60% makes 6 Plu Cells and uses 6 Plu Pellets. A particle accelerator running at 20% uses 10 WASTE and 20 Non-fissile Uranium. The blender running at 40% uses 30 WASTE. So I need 40 waste. A Nuclear Power Plant Using Uranium running at 100% makes 5 Waste. So I need the output of 8 Uranium power plants to run 1 plutonium.

I guess i just needed to write that out. Carry on about your business

[lean bobcat]

Can someone help me with some quick math, im having a stroke trying to do it, how would one load balance 9 out of a 150

[cold snow]

1 line into 3 splitters and then 3 splitters again for each one?

or just manifold it 😛

[fierce ruin]

Closest solution would be split it in 2 4 times

But just manifold it

[frosty owl]

I would suggest manifolding it too. 9/min are not so many that it would take forever for the machine to fill up if you feed it 150 ^^
The splitting to obtain 9 is quite bulky after all

[lean bobcat]

the issue is i want the almost exact amount its going to use, i have 2 lines of 150 iron, and bunch of constructors that are going to eat 281.25 in total (but i just rounded it to 282 as i dont mind extra .075) which im going to manifold of course but id love to get that 18 iron somewhere else

[frosty owl]

If you're going to manifold the whole lines, you end up with a 18 line, so the question becomes: how do I split 18 in 9?
XD

Splitting 9 BEFORE the manifold wouldn't make much sense

[lean bobcat]

oh wait wtf yeah, if its a manifold the 18 spare should just come out by itself, once again way over thinking this game lmao

[frosty owl]

As always, talking it out can weed such mistakes out ;)

[frosty owl]

.just to clarify: it doesn't make sense to BALANCE SPLIT the iron before the manifold, if you use a smart splitter it doesn't make a difference wether it's before or after the manifold

[oblique hollow]

overflow setting is useless behind the manifold tho

[frosty owl]

Depends on what you put there, but sure xD

[pine rapids]

Anybody have a list of the new alternate recipes?

I’m about to build out aluminium and would like to do it in a non-idiotic way lol

[stoic bolt]

Hi! Does anyone know of the best Oil > MW on Update 4?

I want to turn 300 oil into power, is 666,66 turbofuel still the highest possible number? Or does anyone know if it’s higher with the new Blender Turbofuel recipe?

[frosty owl]

They are listed in the tools listed in the list of pinned messages

Greeny's tool in particular

[bleak coral]

greeny's tool has an update 4 version: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/
there is a diluted fuel recipe that goes in the blender, it's the same resource efficiency as the packaged one just less power, space, and machines
there's also a new turbo fuel alt that uses the blender I haven't checked out yet, so you could play around with that

[fading valve]

This made me both happy and sad when I saw it haha. As I had just finished setting up 80 packagers and 40 refinery’s 😛

[bleak coral]

well packagers still work at least, so it didn't all shut down lol

[fading valve]

No haha. Just so much space savings could have been had lol.

[bleak coral]

that recipe's only purpose now is if you want to do diluted fuel before you get the blender

[shy mason]

So tier 6 pre space elevator third shipment

[bleak coral]

to be fair the distance between "have fuel and packagers" and "done 3rd spelevator shipment & set up aluminum" is a decent size, so it's not a trivial use

[stoic bolt]

Thank you! I’ll check it out!

[bleak coral]

but definitely edge case now

[deep root]

I did some math...Using the blenders you can still make 666.67 turbofuel from 300 oil using the old alt recipes (diluted fuel instead of packaged though). You can make the same 666.67 turbofuel with 500 oil using the new alternates, which is SIGNIFICANTLY less machines

@stoic bolt Here is the new alt recipes link https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=NXBfAP2c9F1KKIQsKjfq

I wish there was an alternate petroleum coke recipe 🙂

[stoic bolt]

Oh that looks like a way easier method!

If you scale it up to 506.25 Oil you get some better numbers and exactly enough turbofuel for 150 fuel generators

[deep root]

Yeah, I just have a layout for 148 gens 🙂

[winter halo]

I have a question about satisfactory-calculator.com. I want to produce 40 Concrete/min for example, it requires 120 limestone per min, why does the calculator take 3 miners with 30, 45 and 45 output instead of 2 with 60. Aren't resource nodes a rare occurance? Is the calculator prioritising something else over taking as little nodes as possible?

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/de/production-planner/index/index/Desc_Cement_C/40/direction/RIGHT/maxBeltSpeed/60/maxPipeSpeed/300000/oreExtraction/Build_MinerMk1_C;normal

[deep root]

You put max belt speed of 60ppm

It's in the link 🙂

[winter halo]

Yeah which is fine

isnt it

[deep root]

You can't use 120 limestone per minute on a 60 belt

[winter halo]

60 per miner ofc

[frosty owl]

Yeah, but you can use 2.the planner suggests THREE

[stoic bolt]

Nah the calculator asks him to use 3 miners on 45/45/30 instead of 2 miners both on 60 p/m

[winter halo]

So you guys get my question right? Is it for power purposes or something?

[deep root]

Hmmm, did you redo reusing machines to make sure it knows you want to?

[winter halo]

yeah

i turned it off and on again

[deep root]

Huh...

I'm fiddling with the settings from your link and it won't do anything

[winter halo]

Ok so my guess is it prioritises less power usage instead of least resource nodes

[frosty owl]

I suggest using greeny's tool for calculations, rather then the SCIM. Also faster

[deep root]

120 belt limit with a pure node makes it use only 1 miner......

That is very odd

[winter halo]

But where can I set up to use miners mk1 on that site

[deep root]

Greeny's tool doesn't specify which miner, it just tells you the number of "ore" you need and you place/overclock miners as needed

[winter halo]

I see

Well i'll try greeny's then

[fierce ruin]

greeny tools = POG

[winter halo]

Wait why did it work for you @left granite just saw the screenshot

[deep root]

He made it a pure node with 120 belt limit

[winter halo]

aah ok i dont have that, alright

[fierce ruin]

Greeny*

Greeny algorithm > Greedy algorithm

[winter halo]

I don't exactly get what you mean

Oh I see, awesome

thank you

[iron prairie]

I know I'm more han a touch late to the question, but I did work the math out. Sloppy solution with pure aluminum ingots is more bauxite-efficient than "normal" solution with just enough regular aluminum ingots to use up the silica.

So, if you need silica more than bauxite, normal alumina solution w/ pure ingots. Least aluminum out, but you're net positive on silica.
As things reach balance: sloppy solution w/ pure ingots. Quartz-neutral, and more bauxite-efficient.
If you have quartz to spare, sloppy solution, and a mix of pure & normal ingots. Do note that there's literally not enough quartz on the map to max this out, so it's always going to be a mix of ingots.

I think the "don't do this" option of "normal solution, mix of regular/pure ingots" was something like 1.411 ingots/bauxite, vs. 1.6 for sloppy/pure.

[whole bolt]

Is the conversion rate for coal power plant 1 water pump per 3 plants?

[versed violet]

3 per 8

[whole bolt]

3 pumps for 8 plants?

[versed violet]

yesh

[whole bolt]

and thats the experimental numbers too?

[iron prairie]

Correct. Other than "you can't actually get away with < 3:8 anymore", nothing's changed.

[versed violet]

First shalt thou build 8 holy generator. The water extractors shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then connect thou extractors to plants and start it up.

[whole bolt]

The holy word has been spoken. Thank you.

[iron prairie]

On a sidenote @bleak coral : https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/m6gi6d/new_turbofuel_recipe/gr6scqd/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

The TL;DR of it all: turbo blend fuel is slightly more sulfur efficient (~18% or so), and uses less floor space, but is much less crude oil-efficient (66.67% more oil per MJ gained from making turbofuel). The primary use case I can think of for turbo blend fuel is if you don't have the HOR/diluted fuel alts yet.

[whole bolt]

@versed violet For 3:8 coal gens, how much coal per min is needed?

[oblique hollow]

120

[deep root]

15 per minute per machine --- 15x8=120

[river night]

thats why the 3 by 8 factor is always thrown around, it matches a common mining setup as well 🙂

[deep root]

Ugh, I just remembered I need to actually switch to compacted coal in my gens 😦

[worn galleon]

Do we know if the new Alternate Fuel and Turbofuel recipes in the Blender are more efficient than the old Diluted Fuel recipe for Refineries?

[deep root]

2/3 less in terms of oil

[worn galleon]

Hmmm..

[fierce ruin]

don't post in multiple channels

[worn galleon]

Go away RSO. I decided to ask in a more relevant channel since you were no help.

[deep root]

The link above actually does the math

[worn galleon]

Ah, thanks.

It does seem like you trade off the added oil consumption to save a LOT of space.

1 blender for 8ish refineries and packagers

[wind spade]

that depends on what do you mean by "efficient". If you mean raw resource efficiency, then yes

[fierce ruin]

send him the link, teach him to fish

[worn galleon]

Some people need to learn to share their research instead of telling everyone else to reinvent the wheel. That said, go back under your rock, RTFM troll...

[fierce ruin]

[wind spade]

uhh what do you even mean by that @worn galleon

[worn galleon]

Good point. Fewer resources, space, more output for the cost.

Didn't mean you, greeny.

[fierce ruin]

he's not up to it whatever

[wind spade]

yeah but that was pretty aggressive thing to say to someone who wasn't even talking to you

[worn galleon]

RSO was.

I blocked him so I can just move on from here.

[wind spade]

he was talking to me, he was saying that I should send you the link to my tools

[worn galleon]

He was being asinine to me in another channel

Your tools are nice. You were kinder about it than he was. You answered my question as best as you could, then told me to use the link above. RSO essentially told me to go RTFM from the getgo in the other channel instead of taking a second to answer, or say nothing at all.

[wind spade]

while that's true, he also has a point. If we just answer your question, you can come later with another one. If we instead give you a tool to find a lot of answers yourselves, we'll help you way more, even though it seems that we "don't want to answer you". He could've put it nicer, I agree, but I don't think he did as bad that it would justify being so aggressive on him 🤷‍♂️

[worn galleon]

I think I'm going to go replace 46 refineries with a handful of blenders...

[whole bolt]

So for the 3:8 water to coal, can I technically put all the water into one pipe and then feed all 8 off that one pipe?

[wind spade]

no, pipe only has 300m3 throughput and the 3 extractors produce 360 in total

[fierce ruin]

yes, but you have to use some of the 360/min water before it can reach the 300 limit

[whole bolt]

so how should I split it out?

[wind spade]

I usually suggest a setup like this:

  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
  G  G  G  G

[whole bolt]

Ahh, I see. so basically, split the water into 2 pipes, and 1 of the pumps gets split into those 2 pipes

[wind spade]

yeah

[whole bolt]

Thank you

just changed my setup at your suggestion. Appreciated it.

[wind spade]

technically they are all connected since pipes are bi-directional, but the water will split correctly and you can use mk1 pipes there, and that's all that matters 😉

there are a few more setups, like

E-+  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--E

or

  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--E
           E

but it's essentially always the same - connect three extractors to the same pipe, but don't let any section of the pipe have more than 300m3 of water

[iron prairie]

Really, once you avoid the obvious trap of putting all 360 m^3 of water into the same 300 m^3 pipe, the 8:3 coal plant setup is pretty forgiving of how you set it up.

[versed violet]

Or you can use 5 extractors to max mk2 pipe (two pipes), but then you have 13 and some coal gens you can supply

[bleak olive]

easiest way IMO is to connect all 8 coal plants to a single line, then connect 1 water extractor to each end of said line and 1 extractor in the middle

[whole bolt]

Am I stupid? 3:8 water to gen. that requires 120 coal total, right?

[fierce ruin]

yes

15/min a gen

[whole bolt]

I guess I just need to wait for everything to fill up

[tropic wasp]

wait 3:8

wow that changes things lmao

i have a 2:6.45 overclocking the water gens

i should fix that

[deep root]

"Magic number" is 3:8, yes

[tropic wasp]

fun

[deep root]

With the power change in U4 it takes a while for the machines to balance out

If you are in EX anyway

[tender grove]

If the output of 3 smelters is 120 copper ingots and a sheet costs 2 a pop, does that mean it'll only take 6 constructors for 100% efficiency?

[fierce ruin]

base it all on rates

a min

[deep root]

Ignore amounts, it's all about the per min rate

[whole bolt]

Thoughts on copper factories? to product wire and other copper products?

[fierce ruin]

iron wire kinda replace copper to wire

don't go all out if you don't have iron wire

copper is used alot in later tiers

[tender grove]

yeah it's all /min
I should've specified my bad

[whole bolt]

Jesus. So much has changed since update 2 lol. I guess it will be in my best interest to go get a crap load of hard drives before I move further

[fierce ruin]

get the basher first

[whole bolt]

Basher?

oh yeah, i have it

Anyone got a link for map based on my save? I forgot the site.

[iron prairie]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map#2;50302;0|gameLayer|limestonePure;ironPure;copperPure;cateriumPure;coalPure;oilPure;hardDrives

[fierce ruin]

rip ram with that many filters on

[tender grove]

so if sheets are 10/min and copper ingots 120/min, it'll be 12 constructors then yeah?

i haven't had problems like this since high school lmao

[deep root]

I assume you mean iron?

[iron prairie]

No.
The input is 20 copper ingots/min/constructor. With 120 ingots, that's 120/20 = 6 constructors.

The output, meanwhile, will be 6 constructors * (10 sheets/constructor-min) = 60 sheets/min.

[tender grove]

Alright gotcha, thanks

[bleak coral]

I think an important question to ask is oil more valuable than sulfur. I argue it isn't. We have even more now with the wells, and the diluted/recycled recipes are so disgustingly efficient we don't really need to worry about running out.

[whole bolt]

Does reset your game for different hard drive recipes still work?

Also, what are the first 3 recipes I should go for?

[bleak coral]

when you start scanning the hard drive in the MAM that's when the recipe is chosen

so if you want to save scum you need wait 15 minutes on each reload

[wind spade]

isn't it 10 minutes? or did they change it?

[fierce ruin]

10

[bleak coral]

misremembered oops

[whole bolt]

so its still doable though, you can still change recipes, right?

[bleak coral]

it's not worth it, you could spend those ten minutes finding another hard drive easily

[iron prairie]

Unless you've got some mostly-AFK time, what Lund said. Spend the 10 minutes finding another HDD.

[bleak coral]

just bring the material to build a MAM with you can scan them as you go

[whole bolt]

Okay

that all being said, what are the top 3 recipes useful for early/mid game

[fierce ruin]

then dismantle

[whole bolt]

like 11 hours in, tier 4 stuff

[bleak coral]

plus with each one you remove recipes from the pool of possible recipes, so scanning 10 different hard drives is way better odds to get what you want than rescanning the same one over and over

[iron prairie]

Always look for the oil Big Six: diluted fuel, heavy oil residue, recycled rubber, recycled plastic, compacted coal, turbofuel. It's absurd how much more efficient those recipes are than default oil processing.

[bleak coral]

or litter the landscape with abandoned MAMs, show the world who's in charge 😛

early game casted screw is also nice, but you may be past when it's really really good

[fierce ruin]

runs out

[whole bolt]

how many recipes total right now?

[fierce ruin]

turbo fuel is mid game

[iron prairie]

~80 IIRC? Some of which are great, some of which are comically bad.

Electrode circuit board, I'm pretty sure, exists to use up an HDD and nothing else.

[upbeat tide]

Wait, other circuit board recipies exist???...besides silicone circuit board?

🤣

[iron prairie]

Hey, caterium board is a decent alt if you're short of quartz.

[upbeat tide]

True true

[fierce ruin]

89 I think

[bleak coral]

yeah unfortunately I do believe some recipes just exist to be bad pulls, because that's part of designing a randomness based system: some stuff has to be bad to make the good stuff feel better to get it

[upbeat tide]

But those mandatory alts tho. Pure caterium, pure quartz, fused quickwire, cheap silica, silicone high speed connector, caterium computer, etc

[torpid robin]

The quartz and cat one is pretty comparable tbh

And if you are getting low on quartz tbh the standard hsc isn’t terrible either

[upbeat tide]

Or just swim in more fused quickwire 🙂

[bleak coral]

swim in? from the forbidden continent beyond the water? 😛

[upbeat tide]

You have seen my quickwire factory

The belts made there are...LEGION

Reminder

[bleak coral]

It does feel a bit like an invading army

[upbeat tide]

Go up one deck and you get this monstrocity

[bleak coral]

that looks like it's gonna give me cancer

[upbeat tide]

Lol

[tropic wasp]

and i thought my theorhetical 960 quickwire/min factory was big lol

theoretical because i dont have fast enough belts to supply enough caterium

[upbeat tide]

Thats the layout...repeated many many times

[torpid robin]

what too neat? lol

[bleak coral]

no from all that silicon, that much powdery substance has got to do something wrong to your lungs 😛

[upbeat tide]

Its the cheap stuff too. Mixed with limestone powder 🙂

[bleak coral]

oh boy sounds like a good recipe for coughing blood 🙃

[upbeat tide]

wait, FICSIT assigned us biological organs? Swore we were given self regulating implants... 😄

[torpid robin]

naaaaaa i eat concrete dust at work all the time. and im fiiiine............

[bleak coral]

nah it's cheaper just to let us die and clone us

[upbeat tide]

eh maybe

[bleak coral]

I mean if they have the same collection of memories it's the same person right?

at least that's what Ficsit legal says

[wind spade]

have you seen WandaVision? 😛

[bleak coral]

yep

[upbeat tide]

Ficsit Legal is just an arm of FICSIT HR which in turn is just an extension of FICSIT Security...which is run by FICSIT Corrections...

[bleak coral]

which in turn is run by the CEO's kid, we're still not sure if he still thinks it's a video game

[fierce ruin]

😦

[upbeat tide]

Also did you read the fine print on your employment contract? Ficsit owns you and can do whatever they want to you. Also, read all the termination types. All lead to one result. Recalled to reprocessing center

[wind spade]

what's that for? 😛

[fierce ruin]

Verizon trial ended

[wind spade]

ah

[tropic wasp]

jesus man how much quickwire does one pioneer need 😬

[upbeat tide]

YES

[tropic wasp]

good point have a great day

[upbeat tide]

lol

when you start dabbling in things l9ike silicon high speed connectors it adds up fast

[tropic wasp]

hm

[torpid robin]

im hoping to have an eventual 40k worth lol. its used alot end game

[tropic wasp]

sheesh

imma just stick to my ineeficient but fun plan of having tiny factories everywhere for everything

hmm now to do calculations to try and make my plastic and rubber (and maybe fuel, who knows) factory running sighs in playing for 20 hours straight

[median belfry]

should I switch my oil turbo fuel setup from the 20 packagers and 10 refineries to 10 blenders? or is the packager one still better?

[torpid robin]

the same . if you have it keep it

its actually just a little better on power

[iron prairie]

Diluted fuel saves on floorspace, complexity, and a small amount of power (55 MJ per fuel rather than 60 MJ per fuel), but if you have a DPF setup, I wouldn't bother switching it over.

[fierce ruin]

):

[daring sonnet]

so, is this "getting rid of nuc waste" a thing? does it look like its going to stay?

[upbeat tide]

Yes, you use nuclear waste to produce plutonium rods

[iron prairie]

If you mean sinking plutonium fuel rods: I'm given to understand that was an oversight likely to be patched out.

[upbeat tide]

we can sink uranium rods already

why not plutonium too?

even if oversight, the reduction in waste production is quite dramatic

[iron prairie]

I did a bit of math earlier. If you use default plutonium recipes, you get pretty good waste compression: 20 uranium waste -> 1 plutonium waste, with 1/8 as much power from plutonium rods as from uranium rods.

On the other end of the spectrum, for max power, you get 57:16 compression, and almost as much plutonium as uranium power. Even maxing this out, though, it's 108 minutes to fill up an ISC w/ plutonium waste, and closer to 10 hours if you're using default recipes.

[whole bolt]

Can I have multiple MAMs researching at the same time?

[iron prairie]

The thing with uranium rods is that they haven't yet been used for energy. At that point, they're just an advanced product.

Plutonium rods, however, are necessarily the product of uranium waste, and it's developer intent that You Gotta Handle That Waste.

[upbeat tide]

The alt for non fussle material seems pointless too. It uses straight up uranium. If your gonna do max nuclear rods, it defeats the purpose

[iron prairie]

It does not. You get so much more non-fissile uranium out of fertile uranium that you do get a substantial increase in power generation, despite diverting 3/19 of your uranium to non-fissile uranium production.

[upbeat tide]

🤷‍♂️ either way I require the alt for encased uranium cells to get updated before I jump to U4

Because tapping all 4 nodes to get back up to 31.5 a min nuc rods wont be fun

[iron prairie]

I did a lot of math on current U4 production, and overall, they did a nice job on having a sliding scale of increased power vs. increased plutonium waste.

All-default plutonium processing doesn't add much power to the grid, but has that 20:1 waste compression, adding in instant plutonium cells & plutonium fuel rods each increases yield by ~50%, and fertile uranium maxes out production, albeit at the least waste compression possible.

[whole bolt]

Thoughts on this, do you guy product ingots and ship them in, or do you bring in just ores and then create your products?

[torpid robin]

if you are using pures. you are better to shiop the ore as you will be shipping less. if you dont use pures it really doesnt matter what you do

[long hinge]

Any good compact builds for this?

[fierce ruin]

you mean in like a "circle"

[long hinge]

a line

[fierce ruin]

of different items?

for a mall?

[long hinge]

I should be going to sleep just want to finish last bit.

Mall. But want to grind excess

[fierce ruin]

https://youtu.be/Pg07CHVQG0I?t=1356

[long hinge]

Thank you!

[fierce ruin]

I'm too lazy to make one

[long hinge]

Load balanced everithing up to motors and want my power line to be steady line 😦 Damn Game. I meant DAMN AWESOME GAME!

[fierce ruin]

technically it can fluctuate at low frames

[long hinge]

Oh this will make my job a lot easier with belts cus of merger line NOICE! Thank You!

[lethal shell]

So, how does one go about off routing 1 per minute worth of Reinforced plates off of my total 5 per minute production of them?

(Hopefully that question makes sense)

[fierce ruin]

balencing

[lethal shell]

How do you mean

[fierce ruin]

use a 60 belt

split into 3

that's 20 a belt

send 40 back

slit that 20 into

3 or 2

repeat

profit

[lethal shell]

Cool thanks,

[fierce ruin]

there's guides on youtube that are much better

[tall stratus]

Hey. Has underclocking belts been suggested? Or setting up output count on smart or programmable splitters? That would make compact builds so much easier to balance.

[fierce ruin]

you can balance scroll up

also it's a mod

[tall stratus]

Yeah, I'm running modless

Still though, setting a single belt or a single splitter to output a certain amount would allow splitter lines

[fierce ruin]

I'm sure it's been suggested

[tall stratus]

Cool

[glacial hemlock]

[fierce ruin]

^

[glacial hemlock]

You can have multiple MAM at various locations, each starting a new research at different times, but not the same time. Useful for exploration / hard drive

[fierce ruin]

I said that

[glacial hemlock]

|||That's what she said.|||

[fierce ruin]

SFW content

[gray kayak]

It is safe for work. Its just what a woman said

[fierce ruin]

#satisfactory message

[tiny sentinel]

trying to decide which recipe of these 3 would benefit me the most. I already have steel screws, so the bolted frame would eliminate much of my need for rods. Not sure how much I'll need to produce Beacons or the highspeed wiring.

[fierce ruin]

they all suck

[tiny sentinel]

ok, but which one sucks the least in that case?

[stoic bolt]

I guess I would say bolted frames..

[fierce ruin]

^

[tiny sentinel]

that is what I was leaning towards too, just wanted a second opinion.

with the bolted frames and steel screws, I could OC my steel screw production from 52/min to 56/min to match the demand on the bolted frame recipe. it lines up nicely.

[wind spade]

or underclock the bolted frames, don't need slugs and you save some power as well

[stoic bolt]

The recipe doesn't ask 56 per minute but 140 per minute tho

[tiny sentinel]

says 56 right there

[wind spade]

that's per cycle

[stoic bolt]

Yea that's for one cycle

[fierce ruin]

^

[stoic bolt]

It does 2,5 per minute

so 2,5 x 56 = 140

[tiny sentinel]

how long is a cycle?

[wind spade]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/codex/items/modular-frame

[oblique hollow]

Depends on the production time

[stoic bolt]

It depends. This recipe says that you get "2" bolted frames, and below that it says 5 per minute. So 5/2 is 2,5

[deft lichen]

wrong
2 per crafting cycle, crafting cycle takes 24 seconds, therefore 2.5 cycles are completed per minute, 2*2.5=5/min

[stoic bolt]

Yea that's what I said

Sorry if it came out confusing tho

[deft lichen]

ah, I read that wrong then

[stoic bolt]

No worries 🙂

[frosty owl]

Ondar got schooled, that's rare :P

[wind spade]

nah ondar just can't read

[frosty owl]

☝️ Funny, since he's in the wiki management

[fierce ruin]

LUL

[upbeat tide]

Thinking of making an EVE Online joke but expects most here to not get punchline

[upbeat pollen]

Whats the most efficient oil > turbo fuel recipes now in update 4? I can't figure out this math with the new recipes :c

[wind spade]

probably this one

[upbeat pollen]

oh cool doing it that way makes it so you don't even need regular coal

thanks :D

[wind spade]

yeah we now have tons of oil so using coke recipes is actually better than it was before

(as well as doing coated plates, but people still hate those for some reason)

[vast jungle]

We have 20% more oil, right?

[wooden pond]

Somewhat yeah, check thr nodes

[wind spade]

U3: 9900
U4: 11700
increase: ~18%

@vast jungle

[vast jungle]

So we got a bit more oil 😉

[iron prairie]

As an aside: that's technically not the most oil-efficient path. That'd use regular turbofuel rather than turbo blend fuel. The downside of older-style turbofuel is slightly increased sulfur consumption (~18% more sulfur, vs. 66.67% more oil for TBF)

[snow fog]

What's the best radio control unit recipes now for update 4

[tawdry pebble]

I consider the best one the Radio Connection Unit. Because quartz is not needed much in late game and aluminum is still the most needed late game item. i.e. aluminum casing, heatsinks, cooling systems

[snow fog]

thanks for the info

[bleak coral]

comparing quartz usage on radio control unit seems complicated, cause it depends on how you're making your aluminum which also could use quartz

[tawdry pebble]

by using cheap silica recipe and reusing the 50 waste silica from processing - I still need to do the math for all the bauxite refining - you only need <1800 quartz.

In my planing world i only need 2940 quartz for 150 Radio Connection Units with just constructors not pure quartz recipes.

[sturdy glacier]

any tips?

[tawdry pebble]

2 or 3

[bleak coral]

same

2 can be ok if you don't want to do pure and don't want to go get more copper, and 3 can be nice in some heavy modular frame setups

[sturdy glacier]

i'll go with 3 then.. but haven't yet set up the steel facilities..

[bleak coral]

in detail what I mean by nice is: in some HMF factory setups you're already going to be making steel pipes so it can be convenient to use steeled frame instead of making another item

it's not really that good on it's own

[sturdy glacier]

not the last hard drive out there.. thanks for the input 🙂

[glacial hemlock]

I would say none is good, just pick any

[upbeat tide]

Copper alloy could have some use, but both alloy alts are not the greatest.

[lilac flicker]

So I made this meme of a tool that calculates power consumption based on overclock but have no idea where to post it so here https://rukongaii.github.io/Satisfactory-Power-Calculator/ .

[torpid robin]

I mean the copper alloy was good before u4 now though . With how much Ingots copper powder eats . It’s not as worth as it was . Pure copper is really the best option now

[timid yew]

i wanted to do this one but still idk how to plan that for my 110GW
bc if i look closer the output are set to max oil from the map
and the satifactory interactive map (the calculator part) make me lost in that
and the other calculator idk how to use it

[lethal shell]

I've got 23.5 Extra Iron Ingots per minute, and I want to sink it, what material would be the best to use it for? P.S I have The Casted Screws Recipe

Looks like Casted Screws wins

But then again when do they not

[cedar harbor]

How many aluminum ingots can you make from 780 bauxite ore on experimental?

[nimble ridge]

with coal and no silica? 702

thats the ez way

if you want to use petroleum coke and a shitload of silica you could squeze out around 1664 tho

[cedar harbor]

christ that's 2.13 belts

[nimble ridge]

i did the math for 960 because thats what im playing with and it could run at 2048, but instead im gonna do the ez way and go for about 864

[cedar harbor]

what about with coal and silica

[nimble ridge]

hm see i gotta get in game to see one sec

can you tell me how -much- silica you could hope to make?

and ignore the aluminum recipe that makes silica from now, only from other sources

because it uses -alot-, and the bauxite recipe that makes silicon is 20% less efficient so you probably want to avoid it

[cedar harbor]

I think I can make as much as 780 Quartz's worth

which would amount to 1300

[cedar harbor]

I see, so I should get some alternate recipes then

[nimble ridge]

to answer your question, it would make 936 ingots and require 1170 silica

[cedar harbor]

I was mainly using the default bauxite recipe

[nimble ridge]

you would be looking at 760 baux + 760 water > 936 alumina + (you would need to get 468, just less than a belt) > 1404 scrap + PRODUCES 312 water (that you need to get rid of)

then you would combine that 1404 scrap with the 1170 silica and youd get the 936 ingots

remember that you use those to make alclad AND casing so how you split it up from there is up to you, but consider it will probably need some copper.

i hope that helps! @cedar harbor

[cedar harbor]

Yes it does, thank you

Which alternate recipes would you recommend using for making aluminum?

[nimble ridge]

i would specifically recommend the path above, which would be the standard alumina solution recipe (1:1 baux + water), then the 2:1 alumina solution coal recipe alternate, and then the silica recipe for turning the scrap into ingots.

[fierce ruin]

Pure aluminum Ingot is nice if you don't have quartz nearby.

[nimble ridge]

you get 16% more ingots if you use the silica recipe in the last step, but avoiding it and just smelting the scrap with nothing else yields a 50% instead of 66% conversion

so its not a huge loss for avoiding 1170 silica

[fierce ruin]

And you get some silica in the earlier steps.

[nimble ridge]

no, you wouldnt. plz dont confuse, in my recommended path you avoid that because it lowers overall yeild @fierce ruin

[fierce ruin]

Oh, you're talking about Experimental?

[nimble ridge]

yes, plz look at conversation history if you're gonna jump in

ik its a bit long though lmao

[fierce ruin]

Ok

[whole bolt]

Thoughts, steel or compacted steel?

[nimble ridge]

i use the 2:3 iron ingot + coal almost every time

[cedar harbor]

I see, I'll go for that once I get the recipes

[nimble ridge]

i recommend taking a screenshot of the chat (:

those numbers are good to keep, you dont want to have to work it out by hand again

[cedar harbor]

Yes, I copied what you said into my sticky notes lol

[lethal shell]

I'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around the point requirements with the Awesome Sink, it says it increases by the nth coupon, but I need some help breaking down the formula or just knowing whether or not it's purely exponential or not

[fierce ruin]

gimme a sec

[wild forge]

Anyone who's familiar with fuel production w/ recycled rubber and plastic and can help me with the math behind this diagram from the wiki?

[spare steeple]

[RP from #old-questions-and-help ] I need to split a 50/s line into a 40/s and a 10/s line, how would I go about doing that?

Its not a nice ratio

[lethal shell]

This has helped me a lot

https://i.redd.it/tx9gt3whtfm31.png

[spare steeple]

thanks

[lethal shell]

yessir

[bleak coral]

Please note any merge-back type balancers restrict the max bandwidth of the belt, since they need room to merge the items back into the main line.

So for example you couldn't use that 1/5 splitter on any full belts

[fierce ruin]

prime splitters just suck

why I don't balence

[torpid pine]

manifolds<3

[wary sun]

in a game about numbers, this is a thing

[scenic prism]

Probably becuase it subtracts the 180 from the other 180, then the 520

I think doing (520-180)-180 should fix it

Its a math thing dont question it

[wary sun]

doesnt really follow the rules i learned tough

but yeah that fixes it

[scenic prism]

That's Mathematics™️ for ya XD

[wary sun]

.<

[median thunder]

okay but this isn't how math works

subtraction is not right associative

[wary sun]

set it on fire then

[iron prairie]

It's due to incorrect implementation of operator precedence in the Satisfactory calculator. A workaround is to throw parentheses everywhere.

[scenic prism]

The operation logic is probably flawed in the game
An issue we would have to pick up with the devs

Will probably make a report of this on questions.satisfactory.com

[median thunder]

it's definitely a bug

:( come on css how hard is it to write a shunting yard

[swift robin]

whoa wait the game has a built-in calculator?

[bleak coral]

Yes and it evaluates right to left, so I don't use it

[swift robin]

that's weird

is that a european thing?

[bleak coral]

Not as far as I know, it's just a bug with their text parser

[swift robin]

oh lol

[bleak coral]

Been there forever

I'm pretty sure there's also an old report on the QA site about it too

[swift robin]

having the calc in-game would save a lot of alt tabbing

buuuut...

[bleak coral]

Yeah as long as it's bugged I don't trust it, so I don't use it

[torpid robin]

Or just use it for simple calculations .

And instead of trying to throw a long complicated one in . Just do them one at a time In the order you know it needs to be done in

[nimble ridge]

i just have a calculator, pen and paper at my desk

[sacred fractal]

I was just wondering

How many coal plants can 1 pure coal node with a MK.2 miner attached power?

[nimble ridge]

overclocked x2 to 480? 32.

[sacred fractal]

omy

[iron prairie]

Do note that you are probably belt-limited. Either way, the usual thing is one 8x3 generator/water extractor setup per 120 coal.

[nimble ridge]

he has a miner mk2 @iron prairie , use your brain

[iron prairie]

Mk. 4 belts come after Mk. 2 miners.

[nimble ridge]

that means he at least has 480 belts, thats why i said 2x for 480 and not 2.5x for 600

-facepalm- all you need are encased beams

of course you would be building with mk4 belts in mind

[iron prairie]

Yeah, but the Mk. IV belts are unlocked at Expanded Power Infrastructure, versus Mk. II miners at Advanced Steel Production.

One is a tier 4 milestone, the other a tier 6.

[nimble ridge]

.... okey you make factories based on mk3 belts instead of mk4 after already getting encased beams

[iron prairie]

Given that he is asking the question, I find it more likely he's setting up his first coal plants.

[nimble ridge]

and? -given- that you have a pure node you should be setting up for 32 anyways

[iron prairie]

On one hand, you can plan ahead for that. On the other hand, he could shortly wind up wondering why his coal plants keep on shutting down, and it's because he's trying to cram 480 coal/min down a 270/min belt.

[nimble ridge]

-sigh- pointless

[iron prairie]

Yeah, you know what? Welcome to my block list. I don't have time for people who insult others and get overly defensive.

[nimble ridge]

haha same shithead xd

[oblique hollow]

LOTJ you really have no patience whatsoever

But Silly was also being silly rn

[nimble ridge]

@oblique hollow you have a point, and i know you would probably like to argue with me but given that we have both blocked each other this should be over, contrary to popular belief i dont want a ban

[oblique hollow]

I do not want to argue

Its a waste of energy and time. What even would there be to argue besides opinion

[nimble ridge]

i do have a temper but thats why when i start arguing with someone and i can see they are just stubborn and feel like typing i block as a way to keep the other person out of my hair, but also to keep myself in check

[oblique hollow]

This right here was a clash of 2 stubborn minds. xd

[nimble ridge]

also why my client is modded so that the -1 blocked message- and any other traces of blocked people dont show at all

weird more people dont do that tbh

[torpid robin]

I mean silly makes sense though . If someone is asking how much gens to a coal line . They don’t know what they are doing . Telling them to do something to prep for something they don’t even have or know about is a waste of time. All you are going to do is confuse them and they will be wondering why the hell things aren’t working properly

[oblique hollow]

Its fair enough to say what a max is, but then its also fair to go as far as to warn them that the thing that needs 480 /min needs, of course, mk 4 belts

[snow lodge]

Anyone want to do math for me lol I'm lazy af

How many rotors can you produce from a 480 belt of iron with the casted screw recipe

[upbeat tide]

Satisfactorytools.com

[iron prairie]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=eTspk4EWTn4CLa5q4agE

[upbeat tide]

Let the tools do the math 4 u

[snow lodge]

I normally use pen and paper and the in game calculator I prob should start using that

[upbeat tide]

Nothing wrong with pen and paper. I do it myself 🙂

But using the calc tools to compare recipies, different combos, efc comes in handy

[snow lodge]

Yeaa thanks for the link tho

[upbeat tide]

If your on update 4, remember to change it to U4 mode

[snow lodge]

Will do

[ancient shuttle]

What's a good starting point for a turbofuel setup?

[torpid robin]

500 is a nice number

[ancient shuttle]

Like, 500 turbofuel per minute?

And what would be the recipes you want to get to it? The turbo heavy fuel looks like the best choice to me.

Also, at what point would you want to pursue it?

[snow lodge]

When your coal power can't keep up lol

[torpid robin]

Yea it’s a good start . But kinda as soon as you can . It’s much better than coal . And the “standard” turbo fuel is the best one . Don’t use turbo heavy

You want hor diluted fuel or the diluted in the blender . Can’t recall the name

And compacted coal

[timid yew]

turbo blend fuel or diluted package fuel

[frosty owl]

Turboblended fuel

[timid yew]

When u need to rework all ur 110GW bc turbofuel don't keep up and bc u can do the blender

[fierce ruin]

man with the new blender scrap alternate you can really compact aluminum sheets and casings factory lines into a single walled build with 2 floors

thats 11x12

(thats with 4 blenders)

[torpid robin]

Why would you bother . They produce the same . If it’s running why change it

Just go nuclear

[fierce ruin]

yeti see screen shot i just DMed you

[torpid robin]

Yea it’s looking good dude . Sorry hadn’t replied . Was getting there . Work is hectic atm

[fierce ruin]

the byproduct is only 160m3 water

by the looks of it you really only need 1 maxed out water extractor with the rest coming from the looping back with my setup

[torpid robin]

I’m almost thinking of just looping mine back to a full pipe and feeding I got production right beside it

[fierce ruin]

i'm planning to split do both alu sheets and casings on the upper floor

man looking at what it'll take just to use refineries on how big it'll get

[cosmic eagle]

hi just got to t7 im wondering what you guys think, turbo heavy fuel or turbo blend fuel personally i feel like blend fuel because oil is plenty and coal and sulfur isnt

[fierce ruin]

blend

[torpid robin]

So I’m not at a pc but the blend one is the same as the old one ? Or is it the new one . Shit I can’t recall how

Someone post a screen shot of all the turbo fuels ? Please and thank you kindly

[fierce ruin]

new one

blender eliminates the need to a separate set of buildings to turn solution into scrap

but you need aluminum casings to make the blender

[torpid robin]

Turbo fuel silly lol

Not the alumina stuff lol

[fierce ruin]

oh

well excuse me

[torpid robin]

Cause I was under the impression when I looked at them . The old turbo fuel alt was still the best one

Just using the blender instead of packagers

[fierce ruin]

well the old one still needs 5 sulfer to make 5 compact coal

the blender actually needs less

[torpid robin]

And ? The new one needs Sulfur too right ? But less power output isn’t it

[fierce ruin]

right

[torpid robin]

And you don’t need much Sulfur for nuclear now

[fierce ruin]

but less Sulfur

[torpid robin]

What else are you gonna use Sulfur for

[fierce ruin]

batteries

aluminum blender alternate

explosives, ammo

compact coal for steel (alternate)

[torpid robin]

Why would you use the compact steel anyway

Either use solid steel . And the Coke steel is actually pretty darn good now too

Explosives ammo you can do off the 1 impure and you are set for ever

You will rub out of bauxite for batteries before Sulfur (I think . I need to recheck that )

[fierce ruin]

with casings and batteries needed Bauxite the amount of alunimum sheets you can max get is reduced

unless you use the ingot+copper = casings alternate

[torpid robin]

Which you should be using imo makes a pretty decent difference

[fierce ruin]

that was the idea

[torpid robin]

Only problem is copper is used up faster than quartz and cat now lol

[fierce ruin]

which makes the copper ignots alternate necessary

and using iron to make wire

[torpid robin]

That’s exactly right . Any way to ease on copper .

But it’s also the same with coal. Coal can get eaten up super quick . I those end game spelevator parts that gobbles them

[tiny sentinel]

so i'm currently piping in 1200m^3 crude oil to my base. I have a general idea of how to set up the refineries but wondering how best to use it all. I'm guessing just make rubber and plastic, sink the excess, then make the heavy residual into fuel for packaged fuel and generators?

I need to go exploring for more alternate recipes. all I have right now is the standard oil recipes.

[wind spade]

that depends what are you going to produce 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

if you want turbo fuel especially the blender

you'll need fuel, HOR and coke

[torpid robin]

if i had that much coming back to base and needed. id do a 300 loop to 900 rubber. do the same again for plastic.

then maybe turn 600 of it into power. but tbh. id rather just turn 600 to rubber. 600 to plasitc and then go make power soemwhere else

[somber marlin]

miner give ore. ore go smelt. ore go craft. you get resource

[dark depot]

how are people handling the excess water from aluminum?

are you guys cycling it back through some good way?

[wind spade]

yeah, just cycle it back

[dark depot]

3 water extractors 4 refinery 1 refinery(scrap) that cycles back into the other four seems to be 100% ratio?

480 bauxite per min

is this right?

[vast jungle]

@dark depot for update 3?

[dark depot]

4

why would anyone be playing 3 right now?

[vast jungle]

because I have still enough to do in my EA game... an switching back and forth between U3 and U4 is a pain on Steam

[wind spade]

use epic 😛

[vast jungle]

not sure about this ratios... (with default recipes at U4)
480 Bauxite needs 4 Refineries with "Alumina Solution", thats right... but these need 480 "Fresh" water plus the 240 "Recycled" water from the 2 Refineries with "Alumina Scrap".

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=YwuVQvpyx0uj6Ur7kPpw

[dark depot]

you must be new because I was done with Update 3 a LOOONG time ago

hmm

[vast jungle]

I have been playing on U3 and Tier 6 since November last year... because I decided I didn't liked my "mini-mega" approach... so I started to distribute ALL my factory elements to smaller buildings all around the map... and finished this (I think) only 3 weeks ago.

and when I hooked up my new "central storage" I instantly blew my powergrid... so now I am building a 2nd turbofuel powerplant in the Lake Swamp.

I think I am a little bit over 500 hours in this session (my first one)

[dark depot]

due to life stuff i end up idle progressing slowly and have very bare minimum heh

[wind spade]

also:
rename SF directory in steamapps to something else, download the other version, when you want to switch, just swap those two folders, then switch version on steam, bingo

[vast jungle]

I am working on the "train simulator" achievement... 😉

[vast jungle]

first I need more power for my EA game... I really hate the fact that 5 of my factories had to be disconnected to reactivate power

[wind spade]

yeah just giving tips for easier switch. can be even put into a .bat file so that there's no manual work

[vast jungle]

the idea is definitely nice...

@wind spade any idea was happened here?
https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=xeD3Iz53NgDCXZ4mEew7

I tried different variations of turbofuel and the "maximize" variant in u4 looks a bit strange...
I think it could use less oil than this and still get the "max turbofuel"...

[wind spade]

maximize doens't optimise for raw resources yet

you need to put the resulting number back in with items/min

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=5pbbyKhyrhj8a6Jhr84w

[vast jungle]

ahh... so its a valid maximize result but not minimizing the resource consumption at the same time... that makes sense

[wind spade]

yeah

[bleak coral]

also the resource efficiency is weighted, so it considers sulfur more valuable than oil

cause there's 70% more oil on the map

[wind spade]

yeah but only for the items/min for now

[vast jungle]

the new turbofuel path in U4 DOES look nice...

[dark depot]

U4 is way too good to pass up

drones+hover is awesome

[brazen hinge]

I would love to play U4 but mods are broken and i cant play with out smart mod

[vast jungle]

drones are a nice gimmick... but I have train rails anywhere anyways 😉

maybe I will think about switching after I resolved my power issues... I don't want to build up a bauxite/aluminium setup during a "permanent" power shortage

[dark depot]

heh, you are going to love the particle accelerator then 😄

[vast jungle]

hmm...

Its interesting that the "Diluted Fuel" recipe in the Blender is exactly as efficient as the "Packaged Diluted Fuel" recipe...

not an "alternative tradeoff", just the same with less buildings

[dark depot]

your whole plan for power will change end game now

[vast jungle]

I am currently at 16.5 GW and going to 41.25 GW... I think that will be okay for a while

and I am curious if CSS will patch the "can sink plutonium rods" thing in the next weeks

[tiny sentinel]

I feel like I should probably hunt down some alt recipes before I go ham on the oil.

[bleak coral]

alt oil recipes go big on more complexity for better efficiency

diluted fuel & recycled recipes are nuts

[vast jungle]

yes, they are... but the "diluted fuel" part got a LOT less complex with U4

[bleak coral]

true

[vast jungle]

in my case its "15 Refineries and 30 Packagers" vs. "9 Blender" ^^

[bleak coral]

yeah it's pretty nuts the amount of space it saves, I'm surprised they gave it no tradeoff whatsoever

[vast jungle]

and the "Blended Turbofuel" is even more crazy... yes, you use more Oil... but less sulfur and WAY LESS buildings (not counting the Generators)

how large are blenders compared to a Refinery?

[bleak coral]

I'm not exactly sure, but I doubt 9 blenders are anywhere near the size of 15 refineries & 30 packagers + the piping/belting logistics

[river night]

a blender is a tad smaller then two refineries

[vast jungle]

my typical design is to stack the two packagers on each other... so they can be put "in line" with the Refinery...

[bleak coral]

and a bit shorter for both length and height

wiki has the numbers

just checked

[vast jungle]

Blender: 18x16x15
Refinery: 10x20x21

Packager: 8x8x12

so I would guess in the space I need for 2 Refineries plus 2 stacked packagers/unpackagers, I could also add in two Blenders

so the "2 Blender" package would be less width (18m instead of 20), less high (15m instead of 25m) and as long (32m instead of ~20+8+8=32?)...
but it will use MORE power (150 MW instead of 100MW)

[bleak coral]

what do you mean by stacked? like vertically?

[vast jungle]

yes

if you align them well two packagers on top of each other (unpackager on top) work quite well

[bleak coral]

I don't think I'd like how that'd look, like one just floating there

[vast jungle]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dFFemVqo3ePg1Bes7

[bleak coral]

oh ok, that's different than what I pictured

[vast jungle]

the trick is that packager and unpackager should NOT be aligned but of by 3-4 meters... so the belt lift from above doesn't block the input/output below

so the unpackager on top is aligned to the refinery output, but the packager below is offset by 4m (I think)...

this gives me a VERY compact Fuel Dilution design

I will get a screenshot of my new construction this afternoon... might make things a lot easier to see because its still "work in progress" so view is free from two sides

still, the Blender setup will be more compact and MUCH LESS complex to do

[dark depot]

except the belt/pipe mess like manufacturing lol

[vast jungle]

Manufacurers are not more messy to work with then Assemblers... just a multi-level manifold with 4 instead of 2 levels ^^

[leaden glen]

Hey guys, what is the most efficient way to do 120 iron ore/m into modular frames? If anyone has built one and has a schematic, it would be really helpful

[vast jungle]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=F5STuJKdUdwOO56r6l5i

[wind spade]

xD

[vast jungle]

hey, he said only 120 iron ore... no water 😉

[wind spade]

I always add water, people often forget that it's free resources 😄

also yours is U3, not sure how much changed in U4, probably not much tho

[vast jungle]

yeah right, I accidently deactivated it together with the other resources... first attempt used Oil 😉

[leaden glen]

I think we definitely need those smart-smart splitters that can split into set amounts per minute

[wind spade]

nah, just manifold it and it works 😛

[wind spade]

oil-based recipes are super cool tho

[leaden glen]

I think I need someone to explain the manifold method thing

[vast jungle]

except for the fact that they use oil

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

@leaden glen ^ that's a manifold

X is any building or generator

S is splitter

[vast jungle]

Manifold = exploiting the fact that a splitter re-distributes output if the outgoing belt is blocked for a factory line 😉

[wind spade]

we have tons of oil now and they use tiny bit of oil

[vast jungle]

20% more is not that much

[wind spade]

it's still tons of oil 😛

[leaden glen]

So make a splitter-merger system more complex than my factory that a moth nearly can fly through

[bleak coral]

yeah but between this update and fluid update it's like 50% more from when the opinions on oil-based alts were first made

[vast jungle]

I started with U 3.6... so my opinion might be "you can run out of oil? really?" 😉

[bleak coral]

plus I think everyone always overstated it's scarcity when we have diluted fuel + recycled recipes

[sullen cloud]

Hugest problem with oil setups is that we long time players are tired of spamming refineries

[bleak coral]

that is kinda an unavoidable problem, can you justify setting up oil stuff to save, like, iron of all things

y'know just justifying the effort, not anything else

[dark depot]

hover will make life easier

[topaz hedge]

Woohoo, 50,000 MW of power consumption, thanks greenie, you made this possible X3

[wind spade]

what xD

[vast jungle]

I find them mostly annoying for the "Pure XYZ" recipes... it sounds logical that Oil is handled in a Refinery

[wind spade]

yeah, would be nice to have a "purifier"

[topaz hedge]

vacuum furnace when?

[bleak coral]

might have to introduce a regular recipe that uses it though, how would you unlock something that needs alts to be used?

[sullen cloud]

Yeah, ‚logic‘ is also a thing with these. And that output rates of the pure ingots are still quite low

[bleak coral]

like you get the machine and can't use it until you pull the right alts?

[wind spade]

could be unlocked by those alts 🤷‍♂️

[topaz hedge]

Nah, it could be alt only, just make it tier 7 or 8 and NOT have pure recipies show up in the HDD pool until then

[bleak coral]

oh wait you could do aluminum scrap in it

[topaz hedge]

Nothing more annoying than pure quartz showing up early game before refineries are even unlocked..

[bleak coral]

though the aluminum unlock is already pretty full, but whatever it'd fit there

less refineries in aluminum making too, which would be a bonus

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, sure. it'd be nice.

[vast jungle]

I remember building a 45 Refinery "Pure Caterium" array... not the most pleasant memory

[topaz hedge]

they're not bad once you free your mind, say screw using boatloads of power, and burn your powershards.

[vast jungle]

when you do this you run against the belt limits quickly 😉

[topaz hedge]

300 caterium ignots from 10 refineries ain't bad

I don't have issues with belt limits. it's only pipes that haunt me

[stiff walrus]

What is the best recipe for heavy modular frames? I am a person, who wants to run everything as smooth as possible

[topaz hedge]

depends on what you define as "best"

generally the easiest to work with is considered to be the one that uses steel pipe and no screws

[stiff walrus]

Okay, ty

[vast jungle]

yeah, the "encased heavy frames" are really nice

[bleak coral]

heavy encased frame is better than the other two, full stop

it's more resource efficient, easier to set up, and takes less power and space on the whole because it uses so much less resources than the other two

[vast jungle]

you will just be surprised how many steel pipes your factory will consume

[river night]

my main concern with oil-based alts for simple recipes is that i would have to get oil there in the first place :p

[ornate rover]

what the truck you say to me you little wizzard

its 4 am

i pullled a all nighter

btw

this is a 4 day streak

no sleep

im questionable

where does all this energy come from

its called just dont sleep

ez

i dont use energy drinks or coffee

theyy can srop your heart

i have enough hart issues

or not

idk

[river night]

no sleep is no excuse for spamming off-topic nonsense 🙂

[ornate rover]

im naturally hyper

[ornate rover]

boi

[dark depot]

you are in the wrong chat

math-and-meta

[ornate rover]

i spent over 20$ to join this community

i can speak freely

[dark depot]

😄 you'll be good soon

or gone, one of the two

[ornate rover]

antone waitying for update 4

wait i thoght this was genreal chat

sorry everyone

or should i say @everyone

XD

ban me i expose how mean yoou realy are

[dark depot]

that's some seriously backwards thinking there

[ornate rover]

i can be fun and chil or a phsyco

stick to my good side

i have ways

[dark depot]

you are the one being mean not following rules LOL

sooooo backwards

[ornate rover]

rules are to prevent chaos

[dark depot]

everyone is not going to bend to your will kid

[ornate rover]

no one here is dieing

[ornate rover]

will?

i follow my own will

so should you all sheeple

[dark depot]

ya, just a kid with no brains lol need some admins

[ornate rover]

the game is cool with wemod

[ornate rover]

im 18 in 14 dats

days

[dark depot]

get ready to change the entire way you talk

[ornate rover]

whys that

[dark depot]

see how long all that lasts with a real job

[ornate rover]

im not a bully

[topaz hedge]

You can edit your post to correct typo's goodsir.. happy early birthday, please follow the rules, and feel free to discuss the math/meta of the game you bought. Also, slowmode is here for a reason (:

[ornate rover]

yea good sir

agreed

[sand prairie]

am i the only one who realize that a miner mk1 can mine coals for 6 coal gens today?

(pure notes)

[late bluff]

notes

[vast jungle]

depends on node purity and Overclocking

[sand prairie]

im dumb

[leaden glen]

Does anyone know a good online flowchart editor with free unlimited space I can use for my Satisfactory flowcharts?

[fierce ruin]

draw io

[leaden glen]

Thanks

Once I make a flowchart using draw io, can I somehow share it here?

[quiet sable]

Hit the share button and link it

[leaden glen]

Is there a way to change the location where it is saved after I chose it?

Cuz I chose it to save to hard drive

Nvm

[keen flame]

So hey I just ran some numbers, turns out Nuclear power is turbo-nerfed. I can link to my breakdown but it looks like the power potential from nuclear is less than half of what it was before on experimental. Really hoping this is a bug :c

[river night]

its because one of the alt recipes was not updated properly

[keen flame]

Is that confirmed? Thank god. which one?

[river night]

uranium pellets were removed in u4 right, the infused uranium cell recipe which was super efficient before however still requires them, so its not usable

[keen flame]

I thought that was just intentional to allow people to continue processing their pellets from previous productiion lines. Also both recipes using the encased cells went from 10/min to 20/min encased cells, with no output increase

[river night]

having a recipe using a resource we cant make anymore is not common practice, so its more likely to assume that its a bug and should use uranium

[keen flame]

I hope we hear from CSS or see a patch on it soon

[leaden glen]

Hey guys, does someone know how to split 52.5 resources/m into 22.5/m and 30/m? I'm trying to do the maths, but it's just so complicated

[fierce ruin]

How about a mk1 belt with the overflow going to a second belt, then a 2 way split with 30 one way and the other 30 merged with the 22.5?

[vast jungle]

easy answer: just manifold it
complicated answer... calculate the fraction and get space for a ton of splitters and mergers

@fierce ruin isn't MK1 belt 60/min?

[fierce ruin]

Sorry, I messed up, 52.5 is less than 60.

[vast jungle]

you can get a "reduce to 30" construction by splitting a MK1 belt in half and merging one part back into the belt BEFORE the splitter

if you combine this with an overflow sink it should work

[river night]

its 3/7 + 4/7, you might be able to find pre-defined splitter designs for 1/7th based splits, but its really going to be a very complex thing

[leaden glen]

so I guess it's gonna be more effective not making it 100% effective

[vast jungle]

so in this case a smart-splitter, a splitter and a merger should be enough

[river night]

its gonna be more effective to forget balancers 😛

[timid yew]

i mean i need 3308 m3 turbofuel but i produce a bit more than 2800 so yeah i need to rework that thx to u4
and nuclear produce waste and i don't have unlock yet bc i rework all factories to be efficient

[wind spade]

Manifolds are 100% effective as well

[swift robin]

engineer uses manifold It's super effective!

funny thing is i was always building manifold style because of factorio but i never knew what manifolds were until i played this game XD

[crystal cypress]

Aren't they like 99% effective in practice because it takes forever to initialize full manifold belts?

[swift robin]

if u just keep them off until the machines fill u can cheat a bit and say 100% 🙂

[crystal cypress]

Fair enough

[vast jungle]

or just block the output merged belt until the manifold is completely blocked

[wind spade]

Some can take just 10 minutes to fill, it's pretty rare for them to take "forever" (more than a few hours)

[vast jungle]

that makes it easier to see if everything is working

[crystal cypress]

Might just be an unconnected belt somewhere in the factory then that causes the efficiency drop 😢

[calm flax]

@crystal cypress Just block the output

[crystal cypress]

Yeah that should work

The only exception is with power generation buildings I guess

[calm flax]

@wind spade expect some change in update 4 to take a few hours to charge because of the stack size changes

@crystal cypress the other way if you use smart splitters so it only progresses to the next machines once the current ones are full. Also means you can build full size factories before you have the belts or materials for it

[wind spade]

depends on item ofc, but also depends on build style, a lot of people put high-stack items to manifolds without realising they can just make them 1:1 or similar

[calm flax]

26 constructors taking wire on a 780 belt. Holds 13,000 items. Yeah 16.6 minutes. Can't get much worse than that tbh

[wind spade]

wires are one of the items that are highly recommended to build 1:1 rather than manifold them

[vast jungle]

yes, giving each Assembler or Manufacturer its own private (Quick)Wire-Minions is a good idea

[wicked tinsel]

it wouldnt be a problem if https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/60518819aa0ba107e32511e3 this was implemented :x

[frosty owl]

Manifold must suffer

Speaking of, I've yet to make a meme out of this...

[frosty owl]

Thinks about any recipe using concrete
Are you sure about that...?

[upbeat tide]

somebody with high stack count manifold experience

Silicon high speed connectors, AI limiters, quickwire stator, etc

Nope not fun. Takes a century to prime

But my belts of quickwire are all 450 a min by design

[frosty owl]

I do 720 myself
Better stay away from the max mk5 after all

[upbeat tide]

This is why I do 450 belts

Every 5 assemblers = 1 output belt of 450

[frosty owl]

Meh, I think 8 is a nicer number :P

You'd cut down your belts by 30% or so

[upbeat tide]

Well, 450 matches well with wverything I have used quickwire for, even high speed connectors is a clean per belt number

[formal compass]

why do you need so much quickwire lol

[upbeat tide]

End game alts. Silicon high speed connector, quickwire stators, AI limiters, etc

This is the “hub” for quickwire

All but the backmost 3 belts going down are in use

[formal compass]

oh my god

im only so far into the game where im using it for power poles 😂

[upbeat tide]

Stuff like this

[formal compass]

damn im in for a wild ride lol

[upbeat tide]

And in my case add 3 builds of that and thats what I got

[tribal elk]

Should I use 2 or 3 Locomotives for 6 freight cars?

[upbeat tide]

Test it. If its not climbing hills well, add another locomotive

[calm flax]

1:4 ratio i think for trains

[tribal elk]

Okay, I will try it with 3 then

[upbeat tide]

I have got away with 1:6:1 a few times tho, but depends on how hilly your tracks are

[tribal elk]

I have a 2 way train system all around the map, my trains are always driving on the right side on foundations. So my trains are always front driven, I will test it with 2:6.

[vast jungle]

just think in terms of Caterium Ingots, not Quickwire... the numbers are much more friendly

[upbeat tide]

Just remember pure caterium ingot becomes mandatory. Same with fused quickwire 🙂

Those and cheap silica...you have no idea...

Well, now you do

[tribal elk]

Should work

[upbeat tide]

Must face the same way

[tribal elk]

Nope

[upbeat tide]

Ooh?

[tribal elk]

I have build all my trains like this

[upbeat tide]

Always thought it would fight itself

[tribal elk]

for the looks, and the realness

[tribal elk]

Nope they work just fine like this, and it looks better too

[upbeat tide]

🤔

Eh ill stick with how I have my 30+ trains. Locomotives facing same direction

Per side

<<_______>> how I set it up

[tribal elk]

Yeah, I have a 2 way train system, I only have locomotives on one side

<>------

[upbeat tide]

Some of mine are two way, but I alway set up for both.

I have had some weird situations in the past soo made a policy to be safer than sorry

I also avoid mixed load trains as much as possible

[tribal elk]

2 ways, always driving on the right side

[upbeat tide]

I have one mixed load that works perfect but...

[tribal elk]

yeah, mine goes around the map

[upbeat tide]

My north processing yard

About 4 months old, but basic layout is unchanged

[tribal elk]

okay nice

[upbeat tide]

The point of the north is majority ore collection. Alot os stuff is gathered and trained. That project started when I needed roughly 12 limestone nodes for my cheap silica projects

Eventually needed more copper sheets, so tossed that up there too

[tribal elk]

oh okay

[full raptor]

Is the most productive use of crude to start with heavy oil residue?

[frosty owl]

Yep

Funny enough

[full raptor]

There are just so many recipes

Im frozen

[upbeat tide]

Yes. Once you get these recipes you pretty much never use anything else for oil

• heavy oil residue alt
• diluted packaged fuel and or diluted fuel alts
• recycled rubber/plastic alts
• turbofuel

[full raptor]

I have diluted fuel alt in the blender, it is the same ratios right

[upbeat tide]

Different ratio but same end ratio

[vast jungle]

its just more space efficient (less buildings)... but costs more energy

[upbeat tide]

Eh different per machine ratio

[frosty owl]

For anyone familiar with big bases:
I'm trying to fill up this canyon without having my weak PC burn. Do you think A and B are far enough from one another to divide the performance load enough?
What about C?

(You cannot see A from B, but you can partly see C from both)

[upbeat tide]

From what I know if its out of field of view then that helps alot

[frosty owl]

Meaning I could just build a wall between 2 sides of a factory and have the same result as if I built them on 2 sides of a mountain...?

I thought distance was a big factor in performance too though

[upbeat tide]

I heard walls really dont have an impact

Sorry, maybe render distance is a better term here

[sturdy hinge]

what's the max uranium per min again?

1800?

[wind spade]

U4 is 2100

[sturdy hinge]

nice thanks

[upbeat tide]

A new impure node is added to the northeast area

Between rocky desert and north shores

[sand garnet]

yeah on top of the highest mountain in the game

[iron prairie]

Sounds like a fun train ride from where it's extracted to the sea, where the water needed for sulfuric acid is.

[graceful storm]

double helix

[wind spade]

or no helix

either ramp to top or two stations with lifts between them

helixes take too much time to drive, slowing trains down a lot and reducing throughput

[graceful storm]

hmm

Question does your tool brute force combinations since theres relatively few combinations?

[iron prairie]

Counterpoint: helices are fun, and I wonder if you could wrap a helix around the entire mountain.

But yes, any deviation from straight-line travel reduces throughput.

[wind spade]

there's SO MANY combinations that bruteforcing them would take several days of realtime calculations imo, if it would be even possible

[wind spade]

fair, but here at #math-and-meta we have fun by making most efficient setups 😛

[iron prairie]

No. There is a huge number of possible combinations of alts, especially for situations where you have to use multiple alts for the same resource, e.g. "not enough quartz to make all silicone circuit boards, so have to do silicone + something else". This actually does occur for at least a few production chains, esp. in U4.

[graceful storm]

hmm learning cs this is interesting

I only heard of the greedy algorithm that finds peaks, but I think that'd be inconsistent

[iron prairie]

Even if you did only assume one alt per resource, well... let's say you're making HMFs.

Three HMF alts. Two encased beam alts. Three modular frame alts. Four concrete alts. Three iron ingot alts. Four steel alts. Four reinforced plate alts. Three iron plate alts.

That is just the stuff which every HMF alt needs, and you're already up to 10368 alt combinations. Then, for some paths, you add in alts for screws, alts for rubber, alts for wire, alts for iron rods, alts for copper ingots.

And that is one of the simpler resources, when some players want to write out entire megafactories.

[wind spade]

I've talked about this a few days back, you can check it here #math-and-meta message

Basically if we assume worst case, it's 2^150 possibilities (as there's ~150 recipes), which is around 10^15. And that assumes that every recipe is only either used or not used, so boolean value. In reality, every recipe can be used different amount of times (a tree with two constructors making plates is different than a tree with one constructor making plates), which results in pretty much infinite number of possibilities.

What I'm using is a branch of mathematics called "linear programming", it's basically algorithm that optimises variables given a set of constraints, for example:

max a
a <= 2b
b <= 10

this case is pretty easy (b = 10, a = 20, result is 20), but basically this way I model entire SF's recipe tree into optimisation problem, add constraints based on user's input and the result is the most optimal path through the tree (the tool minimises raw resource usage, so most optimal in terms of resource usage)

If you want to know about this in more detail, feel free to send me a DM (as there's A LOT to talk about and it wouldn't be on topic here and I don't want to spam #off-topic-general with it). However I'll be soon going to shop so that I have something to eat, so I will probably respond a bit later

[graceful storm]

dang thx man

[fast urchin]

Hmm, minimises raw resource usage --> are you actually doing it like me (trying to make the given production as often as possible) are you like trying to minimize the sum of resource usage% in general?

btw: I have another problem. I tried to incorporate the resources used for producing the stuff (I mean like: producing a constructor making a recipe), but then it's not a linear problem any more

[iron prairie]

So: I have a provable lower bound on the turbo motor production line (U3): 331776 paths. You need turbo motors, motors, stators, heatsinks, rotors, copper ingots, aluminum ingots, aluminum scrap, radio control systems, quartz crystals, computers, circuit boards, steel ingots, and either plastic or rubber (at least 3 options).

Interestingly, it does not require iron ingots: everything iron can be substituted with steel.

[fast urchin]

but you also need to combine all these paths

I think greeny's way is a good way because it is also the way I tried (but my solver was way worse than his, but with lp_solve as recommended by him everything works really well)

[vast jungle]

@iron prairie how do you get Steel without Iron?

[manic oak]

I assume he's either using either using Coke Steel Ingots or Solid Steel Ingots, but the latter requires iron ingots, so maybe he just meant when producing actual parts

[vast jungle]

okay, coke steel sounds reasonable for an efficient but complex build

[iron prairie]

It doesn't need iron ingots, but it does require iron ore.

So: not every turbomotor path goes through iron ingots. Most probably do, but then the calculation would be more complex than what it is: the product of all the alts for those resources turbomotor manufacture must pass through.

[fast urchin]

another actually interesting thing for me would be: What is the maximum amount of points you can make (without nuclear, for me)? Because of course if you make turbomotors, this has the most points, but some resources are remaining and it might be better to have some less turbomotors if you can build way more other stuff

[iron prairie]

Given the multiplicative nature of complexity (each processing step multiplies sink value by ~2x), it's probably still going to max turbomotors.

Otherwise, I know greeny is working on optimizing for sink points, but that's not released yet.

[fast urchin]

yeah, I think I will just try it out now

[iron prairie]

U4's going to be a more complex bag, because turbomotors are no longer top complexity dog, and there's more tradeoffs between resources to consider. Maxing aluminum, for example, consumes more quartz than the map has, you can easily max out nitrogen, etc.

[fast urchin]

well, more interesting definitely!

btw: Something which hurt me was that I tried to normalize the recipe names by using only the consumed and produced products without quantity ... but heavy oil residue and polymer resin were the same then, actually 😕

[torpid robin]

Huh ? You sure . When I was going through stuff I only used like half the quartz . Maybe just over . And that was with using all the bauxite . Theb we need bauxite for nuclear as well . So you don’t wanna turn it all in Aluminiun . It also depends on what alts you are going to use

[torpid robin]

I have been looking at this . With the increase in oil .and it not being needed as much as u3 it’s far more viable . Cause also . The end game elevator parts are super steel heavy on high pm amounts

[iron prairie]

Max out aluminum ingots: some has to go through pure aluminum ingots.

[torpid robin]

Are you talking update 3 here ?

[iron prairie]

U4.

[torpid robin]

You put it all through pure

And use sloppy

[shy mason]

I've already got a hmf factory near the new uranium node, so I'll spend a good portion of aluminum for fused frames and combine them with turbo motors for the space elevator part that's triple the points.

[torpid robin]

Wish I could look at my pc . Cause I had a big plan on that

But tbh . You DONT need to max out Aluminiun anyway

You run out of other stuff before hand

[iron prairie]

I'm... aware? I was pointing out that in U4, things are a bit more complex than they were in U3, because there are now more resource tradeoffs. There's simply not enough quartz to do everything you want quartz for, aluminum can be limiting, etc.

[fast urchin]

strangely, my calculation tells me to not produce that many turbomotors, but maybe it's bugged

It tells me to produce 8651.44 Cable, 115.168 Heavy Modular Frame, 79.2 Turbo Motor, 69.5849 Supercomputer (no overclocking of Miners I think)

Forget it, it's all turbomotors + some of the other resources are used

using nuclear would allow way more Heavy Modular Frames, but the same number of turbomotors

[vast jungle]

so Turbomotors is still (after U4) the best "tickets for resources" ?

[fast urchin]

I don't know, my calculations are only for U3

[wind spade]

nah, there's like 10 items that gain more

[vast jungle]

okay, so "grab for points" still means "as complex as possible"... e.g. "nuclear pasta" in U4

[wind spade]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/codex/items/thermal-propulsion-rocket this is the most sink point valued item

[tough hornet]

the cost if it is same as all materials used to make one, but highest number per part - yes.

[torpid robin]

See I disagree.with this . I put into the calc . 60 pm of every item . And 40pm of all the elevator parts. It used about 6k quartz . What it was limited on was copper and steel . That’s what I’m wanting to make and there is a heap of quartz left

It all depends on what alts you are using

Then the next thing limiting was the bauxite

[upbeat tide]

I mean this is my U4 alumnium factory plan and it is far simpler to setup than in U3

[quasi moth]

Does anyone have a layout for the produciton of the last space elevator shipment? I just did a bit of maths and I'm blown away

[torpid robin]

It’s nuts ae lol

[torpid robin]

This is spot on . Doesn’t even use quartz

[upbeat tide]

Nope

You lose some aluminum ingots tho

Only downside since pure alu ingot loses about 25%

[iron prairie]

It does depend on what you want to make, but I'm pretty sure that if you're aiming to max sink points, you're going to be wanting more aluminum.

[torpid robin]

Depends what elevator part you make I guess .

The pasta runs out of copper

What’s the line for the propulsion ? As that’s the highest point value

[iron prairie]

The thermal propulsion rockets use up a lot of bauxite.

[upbeat tide]

Well, if I wanted to do normal alu it would cost me roughly 4.5k silica. I only have 2800 to play with

[torpid robin]

That’s what I thought . So still ain’t quartz limited

[iron prairie]

It is quartz-limited.

[torpid robin]

I need to look at the lines a little bit for Alu . I wanna see the difference

You just said uses a lot of bauxite

And again depends if you use nuclear

[iron prairie]

Yes, and there's a quartz-bauxite interplay, as by using quartz, you can use less bauxite.

[torpid robin]

Cause that goes through almost half you bauxite or something like that

[upbeat tide]

Vanilla

Comparing all the methods for the scrap step

[torpid robin]

Il look at smoko 😂

To start I don’t often look at them per item . I look at an overall of things for the end of what I want to make