math-and-meta

[wind spade]

belt may be visually full, but afaik they got a result that you got less than 780 items in a minute

[cold snow]

ok it is no underclocked refineries for me, the waterline is nearly fully used already and wouldn't provide enough water 😅

[nimble hinge]

Is the belt actually items being moved or is it a shader representing the belt's data?

[sand garnet]

they're instanced meshes

and you can pick them up, so I assum it's actual items

[nimble hinge]

Yeah I figured. prob be more performant to make a custom shader to build the mesh on the fly for the belt based on it's data, but then I don't even know what data the belt holds

If it were a shader and the belt handled all the data internally, then you would be able to manipulate item rendering on belts easily. I guess it depends how you handle the data, but I feel like it's less data to store a parent belt with an equation representing it's path, then items with a fraction of the path travelled, disconnecting the data from the objects; as opposed to storing objects with world coords and an attached belt 🤷‍♂️ Eh lots of ways to do it, and I have no idea how they are doing it now.

[sand garnet]

next time you see ben in chat, ask him

he probably knows

[nimble hinge]

Probably super secret stuff I'll be horribly murdered for asking.

[magic shadow]

idk ben is nice

he prob wont murder you too hard

[nimble hinge]

I live in hope

[frosty owl]

I actually found 480 belts to be more convenient for train things.
In my case I just needed a convenient number to transport 2 belts each freight and still have enough wiggle room with trains timing that was below 600/min and easy to get from any belt

[cold snow]

the trains are timed for 780 already 😅

[oblique hollow]

I just did a major build to test the speed

i seem to be losing about 6 -12/min

i made a huge splitter array to split the mk 5 up into 4 mk 2 and 5 mk 1 belts

so 480 + 300

and exactly one mk 1 belt seems to be losing 1 or 2 items

but it happens very irregularily

so overall

its a loss of about 3/min

less than 1% of mk 5

[edgy vault]

Irl 99% usage is still really excellent for any machinery

[nimble hinge]

this is why it's important for coders blame it on rounding errors

[oblique hollow]

ben actually mentioned that large delta values are very hard to fix for efficiency

[wind spade]

yeah that's what I was talking about 🙂 if you're really concerned about efficiency, it's better to not max belts and just use the semi-full belts 🙂

[sand garnet]

Would this mean that a double manifold is technically better than a single manifold?

due to less splitters on the line?

[wind spade]

well the tests are about merging to full belt 🙂

so splitters shouldn't be affected by this

[sand garnet]

ah alright

[wind spade]

(tho I don't doubt they have their own issues when doing shenaningans with them)

[oblique hollow]

this is the test setup. mind you though, this is with smart splitters, and i dont trust them, i will try this again with normal splitters

[sand garnet]

what happens ifyou feed it back into itself

like a sort of doublecheck?

[oblique hollow]

the double check is the bottom

its a mk 3 and mk 1

well, half a mk 1

so 300

ill report more once im done with the normal splitter test

[wintry aurora]

You know.... it's too bad we can't have belt elevators go directly into the top or bottom of mergers/splitters, kinda neglecting the vertical there. Just musing because I had an idea of how to do a constructor bank (or bus as you guys usually call them) and linking up the outputs, if it WERE possible to do my idea anyway.

[oblique hollow]

huh

turns out the smart splitter did nothing wrong

it really is a loss of 6 parts/min

so just below 1%

99.2308% efficiency

for mk 5

mk 4 losses seem negligible, all 4 mk 2 belts are full

and wheter or not 2 mk 5 belts get merged before this or not doesnt matter

the merger does its job fine

[cold snow]

so i guess no mk6 belts anytime soon as it would increase that even more

[oblique hollow]

if the mk 6 was 1200, 99% efficiency would be a loss of around 12/min

though i think it wouldnt have 99%

more like... 97.5%

with luck 98%

so around half a mk 1 belt

even just 95% would be a loss of a full mk 1 belt

[edgy vault]

Could the losses on full belts be contributing to decaying game perfomance?

[oblique hollow]

partly

game performance as in framerate drops? nope

but overall factory performance / efficiency? definitely

[edgy vault]

Well either way, looks like I'll be refactoring 30+ of my production tabs on greeny's calculator tonight lol

[amber jacinth]

What are the oil ratio numbers? ATM, I have 4 refineries from 2 pure oils, which feed into conveyors and 2 more refineries, which make fuel and go into 3 generators

[edgy vault]

Check the pins here for an online calculator that will help you immensely with planning oil. Depending on recipes used, the answer you'll receive will vary immensely

[magic shadow]

best

[frosty owl]

A pipe clang for the hard work

[bleak coral]

<@&387163995947270144> spam

[charred ledge]

why do i need 64k quickwire and 5k ai limiters for lol

[clear slate]

Hey guys, what am i missing?

https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Turbo_Motor says "Aside from coupons, only 1906 Turbo Motors are usable."

The game has 378 Nodes.
378 Mk.3 Miner need a total of 1890 Turbo Motors

For what do you need the other 16?

@shadow prairie Did you read the question? 😅

[sand garnet]

Dyno is a bot

[clear slate]

Lol ^^

[wind spade]

wiki is most likely wrong, as it is updated by community, not devs

[devout zephyr]

how much mw is doing a fuel burner?

im on coal now

[wind spade]

150 MW

[devout zephyr]

ohh fine

not a lot more lol

[sand garnet]

literally double a coal gen

[devout zephyr]

yeah

[sand garnet]

thats a lot

[wind spade]

MW is irrelevant, what matters is what fuel you use and how much MJ that fuel provides

[devout zephyr]

which one should i use?

[sand garnet]

the best you have

[wind spade]

up to you, in fuel gen you can burn fuel, turbofuel or biofuel. Biofuel is hard to automate completely, so one of the other two probably 🙂

[devout zephyr]

i dint even unlocked the fuel generator yet

[cyan egret]

Turbofuel is life

[vast jungle]

Just upgraded my turbofuel powerplant by 30 generators... Now everything works fine again

[fierce ruin]

Is there any real benefit to switching from coke powered coal generators to fuel generators before unlocking turbofuel?

[wind spade]

yes, they are far better

from 300 oil you can get 3600 MW by coke or 8000 MW by fuel

[fierce ruin]

Ah, I hadn't done the math properly, I thought they were about the same, thanks!

[wind spade]

it all depends on recipes, I've done the math with best recipes in mind

[fierce ruin]

Oh, I don't have much in the way of alts yet.

[wind spade]

you should

300 oil -> 800 fuel with alts
300 oil -> 200 fuel without alts

it's 4 times as much fuel

(and it often applies to other alts as well)

[fierce ruin]

So, without alts, coke should be better?

[wind spade]

without alts:
300 oil -> 600 coke (+200 rubber) -> 1800 MW
300 oil -> 200 fuel (+150 polymer resin) -> 2000 MW (and you can convert the resin to 75 rubber)

so fuel should still be better

[fierce ruin]

Ok.
Is there an alt for coke as well or did you mistype? (First you said 3600MW for coke.)

[wind spade]

no alt coke:

all alts coke:

[fierce ruin]

Ok, thanks!

The coke alts don't seem to be in the Wiki, but I quess I'll find out about them when the M.A.M. researches them.

[wind spade]

well it's named Alternate: Heavy Oil Residue and doesn't produce Coke, so I guess it isn't on Coke page on wiki 😉

both ways use standard Petroleum Coke recipe

it's just about how you make the Heavy Oil Residue needed for it. With alts you can double the amount 😉

[fierce ruin]

Ah, I see.

[wind spade]

(it's in the screenshots I sent)

[fierce ruin]

Well since I need power now I might as well just keep expanding my coke power. It's getting pretty crowded, I'm going to need some seriously long pipes to fit everything in once I get mk 2 pipes and can overclock the extractors.

[wind spade]

you can also just mine coal and put it in coal gens 🙂 300 coal -> 1500 MW, it's not bad and it's super easy to get

[fierce ruin]

Yeah, I started with that but now I'm wanting to expand my steel production.

Of course I haven't gotten anywhere near exploring the whole map on this word yet so I could just find some more coal, it's easier to transport the energy than the coal/steel.

[charred ledge]

help me

out of space

trying to build hypertubes

[fierce ruin]

I've just gotten into refineries and am enjoying the challenge of fitting all the refineries in besides the coal generators.

[wind spade]

clear your inventory then 🤷‍♂️

[charred ledge]

idk dude

[fierce ruin]

@charred ledge You could build a string of micro bases along the route and use the bit of hypertube you have so far to go back and forth filling chests.

As well as loading up a vehicle and running it out to where you're building.

Also, every time you run into a limestone or iron deposit, stop and set up a miner, a couple of constructors and a container or 2 so you don't have to go so far to get concrete and iron products.

[charred ledge]

well yes but at the same time i need transport

[fierce ruin]

When you run out of materials building a hypertube just empty your inventory into chests and take the hypertube back to your base to refill.

[charred ledge]

also which one

[devout zephyr]

@charred ledge you have so large stacks of items is this a mod?

[wind spade]

one is a pipe, one is a pump 🤷‍♂️

[charred ledge]

i used it before

got rid of it and i got only utility mod

[frosty owl]

And daisy chain

[charred ledge]

annnnd for a second my current rubber and plastic production stopped working for a while since residue

but fixed it by adding 5.3 fuel gens

this is also a old world so every container is full

[wind spade]

you should have power production separated from plastic + rubber

[devout zephyr]

is this cup worth to get in the shop lmto?

[wind spade]

it's useless 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

It's essential for relax

And good screenshots

[charred ledge]

i mean extra power ill take it

[devout zephyr]

😂

[charred ledge]

coke makes less

[wind spade]

my point is that you shouldn't have a production line that can stall if your power usage goes lower

[frosty owl]

Just remember to decouple your rubber/plastic from your power production as soon as you can
If you don't, you'll eventually regret it and need a lot of time fixing it ^^

[charred ledge]

ehem

i dont use it at main power source

i have a 19 gen turbofuel plant

[wind spade]

yeah but still if you connect it to power it can stall your plastic production or vice versa

[charred ledge]

my computers and heavy frames production got killed by residue

i need a plastic and rubber plant tbh

[wind spade]

and that's the problem we're telling you about 🙂

[frosty owl]

Banana, potato...
Power is power. Eventually once forgets, something stalls and a fuse breaks xD

[wind spade]

and residue you can just convert to something and sink it

[charred ledge]

also since i had 500 stacks of everything..... it all broke but it was only 3k usage

[wind spade]

sharing save files in this discord is forbidden 😉

[charred ledge]

ah crap

whoops

[fierce ruin]

i have 3 M5 belts, 600, 600 and 300 alu scrap. How do i split this into 6 times 240 and 1 time 60? or just go with overflow/manifold?

[magic shadow]

one second

ok so each 600 belt can split into five mk2 (120) belts

then pair those up into belts of 240

the 300 is another pair and a mk1 (60)

[fierce ruin]

Thank you, i was trying so much, but this looks like a simple solution

[magic shadow]

but also don't bother with aluminum you'll be very disappointed at u4 when you have to retool 💀

[fierce ruin]

i know, but im out, i really need it now 😛

[magic shadow]

lol ok

[fierce ruin]

its a redo of my old setup

[wind spade]

just go with manifold 😉

[cyan egret]

Manifold is life

[magic shadow]

@fierce ruin

all you manifold nuts stfu they asked for balancers

i neglected to add mergers but you get the idea

[wind spade]

literally in the question they asked

or just go with overflow/manifold?

[magic shadow]

as a backup

shush it is done with math ™️

[fierce ruin]

Got it

[magic shadow]

tasty lasagna

[fierce ruin]

i dont do math in satisfactory often

[magic shadow]

that's a lot better than i could have done lol

i tend to go flat and it looks terrible

[fierce ruin]

haha, well, thanks once more

[magic shadow]

for future ref when you have to divide my multiples of 60. mk1 and mk2 belts are good for that

[fierce ruin]

/bow

[magic shadow]

/bow

[wintry aurora]

🏹

I are silly this morning.

[bleak coral]

@wind spade If you're using heavy oil residue for power coke is better than fuel until you get diluted fuel. The refineries making residual fuel use up so much power that it puts the net power gain of it behind coke.

And that's not even taking into account if you want to sink it to not clog up the other line, then coke pulls even further ahead because it doesn't need extra power to be sunk.

[lyric hemlock]

/bow

[wind spade]

well the calculations I did were for diluted fuel (where I said it's way better), but I'll do them again here:

All alts

• 300 oil -> 800 fuel = 8000 MW generated, 1000 MW used, 7000 MW net (200 polymer resin byproduct)
• 300 oil -> 1200 coke = 3600 MW generated, 600 MW used, 3000 MW net (200 polymer resin byproduct)

No alts

• 300 oil -> 200 fuel = 2000 MW generated, 150 MW used, 1850 MW net (150 polymer resin byproduct)
• 300 oil -> 600 coke = 1800 MW generated, 450 MW used, 1350 MW net (200 rubber byproduct)

TL;DR: In both cases, fuel is better.

[bleak coral]

Straight fuel is better, but I'm talking about if you've got spare heavy oil residue (like most beginner setups do) and you're wondering what to do with it.

[wind spade]

100 HOR -> 66.66 fuel = 666.66 MW generated, 50 MW used, 616.66 MW net
100 HOR -> 300 coke = 900 MW generated, 165 MW used, 735 MW net

It's indeed a bit better, but not sure how much worth (as these setups are mostly temporary, I'd just use the fuel rather than to have build a lot of coal gens and adding water just to tear it down after a few hours because I got my diluted setup)

[wintry aurora]

The coke one uses more power, so, there's a clear tradeoff there.

[bleak coral]

It's worth it because it's in the context of a beginner setup so the system's main purpose is to make rubber or plastic so the fuel or coke needs to be sunk. And sinking coke is a lot easier.

[wintry aurora]

Offeset some by the somewhat better power, but still.

[bleak coral]

He bolded the net power gain, coke uses more power but it makes more power. ( I misremembered earlier )

[wintry aurora]

In terms of getting rid of HOR buildup, sinking coke is indeed the easier route.

[wind spade]

(just fyi I added water extractors there to used power, it isn't added to the first post, but it doesn't matter as coke is already worse in both cases there)

[vast jungle]

thats what overclocking is useful for 🙂

[glacial hemlock]

Or, sink the packaged fuel. Not that difficult, right?

[vast jungle]

making coke has the advantage you don't have to waste empty containers...

[glacial hemlock]

They have very low awesome points.

[wind spade]

Overclocking doesn't help you there

[vast jungle]

maybe wrong context... I could vow that there was talking about limited space for water extractors... strange

[granite vault]

What is server limit?

[vast jungle]

what kind of limit?

[granite vault]

How many people can be in 1 server?

[vast jungle]

on the Satisfactory server? Zero... no game servers at the moment

on a client hosted multiplayer? Depends on client performance... "supported" is up to three external players, but you can increase that number up to 127

[sand garnet]

record so far is around 60

[midnight mantle]

Wou! I think that there are limit for max 4 players 😦

[oblique hollow]

Yes, but that can be edited

[tiny wing]

60?!

The stability of games i join melt even when its just 2 people

[naive ingot]

Yeah, it is wasn't like any of them were able to get anything done at that capacity.

[magic shadow]

world records aren't usually very useful

[sand garnet]

braggin rights though

although the speedruns for satisfactory are... very underwhelming

[magic shadow]

yeah

[wintry aurora]

Why would you waste containers like that though?

[zealous tide]

greetings fellow factory math nerds. Just want to shout out and thank whoever told me to use 1\8 inch graph paper for planning factories (can't remember who it was) can't wait to really start playing Homework: the game!

[cyan egret]

Imagine doing homework in 2021

This comment was made by the "too cool for homework" gang

[zealous tide]

That's funny cause that was actually me in school and now I'm doing it for fun basically xD

[cyan egret]

Haha :D

[zealous tide]

this paper is perfect though every square is one platform

[oblique hollow]

My goto paper

For literally anything

5 mm checkered

[wanton axle]

@oblique hollow When I was in school, we referred to that as graph paper.

[oblique hollow]

Its simply called "checkered paper" here.
1mm checkered is what we called graph paper

[zealous tide]

This is what I got, each big square is 1 inch but it works out to be 8m In game so one foundation, and every little square is 1m

[cyan egret]

each big square is 1 inch but it works out to be 8m so one foundationThis sounds oddly American

[zealous tide]

xD

[oblique hollow]

Hehe i only have small squares

No big ones

[zealous tide]

yeah this was just easier for me to visualize it in game

drawing belts and splitters is gonna be a pain tho

Hey for walls, they're placed on the one meter inside the foundation right?

theyre not split half a meter across both

[versed violet]

Walls encroach both foundations

Railing only occupies one side

[zealous tide]

Oh fuck so they are split

So half a meter on either side

[versed violet]

It sucks a lot when constructors and so on are exactly 1 tile wide, so you have to count extra one tile and place them in middle, or even 2 tiles to have walkways both sides of a row

Tip: If you don't need walls, you can put foundation as a very thick wall. It does not encroach

[zealous tide]

yea I always leave a hallway in that case but half a meter either side is way more tedious to draw than just following the grid fml 😂

[versed violet]

use thick marker for the walls

[zealous tide]

Ooh that's a good idea

I just wanna try to make everything neat and tidy

What is the splitter height wtf

[versed violet]

2m

and 2m width

[zealous tide]

Stackable: (2n+1) m

That's the wiki splitter height

assuming n is number of splitters?

But they're 4 wide/long

this says they're 3 tall. I thought they were perfect squares haha

[versed violet]

4 wide, correct, was mistaken

I think they're 2m tall when stacked - basically 1:1 to stackable poles, and 2 fit vertically per one wall section.

[bleak coral]

exactly if they were taller they wouldn't match up with the stackabable poles

they can also clip a bit into walls, I haven't measured that though

it's probably 1m so you can clip one side into a wall

[zealous tide]

Wiki says its 3+2+2+2

For each stacked

poles are 1/3/5/7 so that makes sense

[cloud marlin]

sup guys, which chat for factory/layout feedback?

[sand garnet]

this or #old-questions-and-help

[midnight mantle]

Hello everyone. Does.
Question. Will it work?

Train with 1 machine and 1 cargo.
Full cyrcle take exactly 2 minutes.
Cargo getting 780item/min.
But when i got items on station we have 25 sec waiting and station are not unloading.... So 117 we lost 117 items/25sec.
So we got not 1560 items per 2 minutes but 1443 items, its mean we getting 721.5 items/min.
What if on loading statin we will add another cargo and we will connect before it to container. And we add smart splitter before loading first cargo and when first cargo are not loading we will load container and then from container we will load second cargo. So in second cargo we will have (25 sec) 0.15*780=117 items more. Will it solve issue (in case if track time will not change) ?

So scheme is.

1. 780items/min going to smart splitter.
2. From smart its going to first cargo.
3. Second output from smart is set to overflow and going to container.
4. Container connected to second cargo.

[frosty owl]

@midnight mantle Firstly you should ALWAYS use a container to load your stations, like: smart splitter -> Industrial container (both inputs) -> Freight platform (Both input)
Then, as you said, you can't just load 780/min as there are 25s of load/unload time. To account for that you can either put a reasonable limit to how much you load (I load 480/min as it allows me plenty of wiggle room in train-timing and it's a convenient number) or have one or more freight platforms managing the overflow from the first ones as you mentioned (always with ISCs to help load the stations though)

[midnight mantle]

What is ICS ?

[frosty owl]

Industrial Storage Container

[jovial scroll]

I know how to fix

did you solve your issue?

[jovial scroll]

I mean you were having that issue right>

[zealous tide]

no not an issue haha

was just asking how walls are placed

[jovial scroll]

ye ik

but I know how to fix that issue

I use a tech in my factory builds to fix it

[zealous tide]

...i dont think youre understanding me lol

[jovial scroll]

ah mb was thinking that he was having a problem with it

[zealous tide]

so with iron wire and solid steel ingot, its 160 buildings for 16.08 HMF per min, vs 111 buildings with normal steel ingot and copper wire, for 12.76HMF per minute

this is with a 960 coal and iron limit as well

[bleak coral]

Try solid steel + copper wire, if the limiter is iron

[zealous tide]

did that already, 177 buildings for 18.08/min

this is using encased pipe and heavy encased frame, stitched iron plate and steeled frame

the goal for this project was as small a footprint as possible maximizing the couple nodes i have in this area, the 111 buildings for 12 a minute seems pretty legit

[pulsar edge]

in trying to understand this channel i believe my brain exploded

you people are too smart for me xD

[bleak coral]

What it's just m̷̍̂ä̶́̉t̶͉̚ḣ̸͘

[frosty owl]

... Welp, guess I need some water

[empty tusk]

how many smelter can i set for 260 copper ore ? and whats the best way to balance it ?

[jaunty geyser]

Smelter are 30 each, so for 260 you need at least 9, and to balance it, manifold take more time to have a constant stream but is easier to make

[vast jungle]

There is also "Copper Alloy" which you make in the foundry and that outputs 100/min per Foundry...

[empty tusk]

i dnt have the copper alloy recipe yet

[sinful vale]

8 and 2/3 if at 100%, 867 at 1% or 3 at 250% and 1 at 117%

[kind crest]

lorge math

[kind crest]

i can DM you a blueprint file for my extractor setup i stole from a concrete production blueprint

[frosty owl]

I'd be interested interested in seeing a screen of it 🤔, thanks much!
(Despite lamenting how long it takes, I do prefer to do things myself)

[jade minnow]

867 sounds like the best way

[empty tusk]

whats 867 ?

[jade minnow]

He said you could build 867 machines that are running on only 1%

[forest minnow]

very efficient

[jade minnow]

Or the easiest way would be 8 on 100% and one more underclocked to 67% (66.666)

[frosty owl]

Balancing smelters (or anything at all) is easy as long as you use convenient numbers of machines in your arrays
E.g.: smelters are convenient to put in rows of 4 so you can just feed them a full mk2 belt divided by 4. If you have MK3, 9 are a good number. If you have smart splitters, balancing any number in between becomes much simpler too (just have sets of 4 and deal with the overflow)

[empty tusk]

so 2 sets of 4 and smart spliter for overflow for 1 additional smelter

[frosty owl]

Aye. Remember that you'll have some overflow from the last smelter too, as you can't clock it to consume exactly 20/min ^^

[sinful vale]

having 867 smelters is actually the most power efficient option, if you ever need to start saving up in power

[jade minnow]

But wouldn't that be a bad choice performance-wise? Isn't it the more you build, the laggier it gets?

[sinful vale]

correct

again if you ever need to start saving up in power never said it didn't have drawbacks

[frosty owl]

Correct, which is why I do the opposite and OC everything ahahah

[zealous tide]

Personally I like to just overclock the last machine to 167% instead. Uses a little extra power but saves a building and extra belt/splitter work

hey @wind spade have you ever thought about making a building schematic tool to go along with your other ones? I have some great ideas but I can't code ahahaha

[wind spade]

what would that do?

[zealous tide]

okay the simplest version would basically be virtual graph paper like this, big square is a foundation, little square is one meter, then you would just have to program stencils of the buildings/splitters, a way to snap them to the grid in a way that lines up in game, and boom easy massive factory blueprint maker

[wind spade]

that kinda forces people to make 2d builds instead of 3d 🤷‍♂️

[zealous tide]

You know, like in MS paint you could draw a square, just have them pre-set for accurate building size

well that's the challenge with it ofc

[dusky dust]

Clearly the best tool for Satisfactory planning is AutoCAD

[zealous tide]

but for laying out 100 refineries and charting belt work etc it would be sick

if you figure out a creative way to do 3d, maybe an opacity overlay thing idk

but even without 3d it would be super helpful imo. I would plan out all 100 buildings on the floor, then see the easiest way to route materials to them, mess around with different layouts etc

[dusky dust]

Honestly if you want some rapid prototyping for Satisfactory, I bet your best tools would be the Smart! mod combined with whatever mod it is that takes away building costs

[zealous tide]

I'm going to be doing it manually but thought it would be neat and i don't see anything like it yet

[dusky dust]

Set up a "sandbox" save which you could just hop into and start laying down machines. The newer versions of that mod do a lot of auto-belt-hooking-up as well

[upper minnow]

Is this where all the nerds of the game hang out?

[wind spade]

if it's just buildings, then I'd go for it, but the problem is that you also need belts and pipes and I'd have to figure out their exact logic in how they can be built and in which shape

[dusky dust]

Then once you've got your design, hop back to "vanilla" or whatever and build it for real

[zealous tide]

and like it could literally be a suuuuuuuper simple and basic grid pattern with squares

[dusky dust]

(I realize that mod talk should be in the modding discord, so I'll shut up about it now. :)

[wind spade]

also I don't see why you would want to plan 100 refineries, just put them in a row and manifold them 😄

[zealous tide]

well you wouldn't have to plan for every use case, just have 90 degree turns, etc common stuff

if you get really good at it though then you could feed your production planner data into it and make a blueprint :O

That was just an example haha. Its more useful for nerds like me who try to wrap all the wiring and stuff nicely and make the pipes like nice, I realize haha

[wind spade]

the game doesn't have a blueprint system 🤷‍♂️

[zealous tide]

Yes

no I mean into your blueprint tool that I'm trying to sell you on making xD

have it auto generate a simple manifold blueprint for the 12 iron plates per minute setup they just calculated

u know?

[wind spade]

I get that but... why

[sand garnet]

if you cant make a manifold.. you have bigger issues to worry about

[wind spade]

manifold is literally a row of machines

not sure why would that require a blueprint to plan

[zealous tide]

For noobs dude haha

Or, for the more complicated setups like diluted packaged fuel and stuff

[wind spade]

diluted packaged fuel is 1:1:1

[zealous tide]

but I don't think you could program it all to make it automatically, someone would have to figure out common setups and program the logic into it I think

But for the belt and pipe work

its not straightforward the best way to set up the containers and route them back to the other packagers etc

I mean all the common questions people have about setting stuff up could be contained in such a tool

[wind spade]

the problem with that is that the tool would no longer be objective then 🙂

[zealous tide]

I think its really more for a cleaner way of showing building schematics than the impossible to understand ones @sand garnet draws xD

[wind spade]

everybody can build stuff differently and leaning to one way of building could have negative impact

[versed violet]

You might be interested in graph layout algorithms.

[zealous tide]

well it would be a sandbox first, with a repository of common dimple designs

[versed violet]

Tried one. (the graph)
It didn't look well.

[sand garnet]

my mspaint stuff is confusing?

[zealous tide]

I just wanna program a square that's 28x18 cubes long, copy 50 of those in a line, use the belt thing I saved and connect them all

like stencils

but without having to do them by hand

on graph paper

[wind spade]

I feel that 95% of that functionality would be duplicating draw.io

[zealous tide]

hmmm will have to check that out. I just am totally surprised no one made anything like that for satisfactory

[zealous tide]

To me usually yeah haha

but I need to be explained at infant level

[sand garnet]

that's a first, never heard that before

usually people say they understand them

[zealous tide]

I think they're just too chaotic and hurriedly drawn, my brain cries for more structure lol

[sand garnet]

but like, if greeny's tool tells you to make 11.15 machines, and you dont know how to put 12 machines in a row.. i dunno what to tell you

[zealous tide]

I get that, but when you're talking a factory of 117 buildings with different materials and different loop backs combining them to various machines, its not that easy

[wind spade]

it's the same, but repeated multiple times 🤷‍♂️

and if you want to plan it anyway, draw.io is used a lot here, so check that out and see 😉

[zealous tide]

I guess if you space them out a ton and spaghetti belt it together

but my hmf factory for example

the concrete is routed to like 3 separate parts of the production

[versed violet]

If you make your actory floor 3 walls high, you can route belts above machines without colliding

[zealous tide]

So I'm just trying to draw the factory out, rotate floors 90 degrees etc to see a nice way to distribute that but I need the greeny satisfactory blueprint tool for that damnit!

[sand garnet]

why are you building a setup with 117 machines if you dont understand manifolds at a solid level though

[zealous tide]

I understand manifolds perfectly lol

I figured them out before ever looking at a video or guide

[sand garnet]

then why is a repeated setup of smaller manifolds confusing?

[zealous tide]

I'm just trying to lay them out cleanly

its not confusing for me but I'm not the only one who uses the tools lol

and I just want to draw it out cleanly. Ill try draw.io

If this does what I want it to ima be salty, been asking people in here for weeks bahaha

[versed violet]

it does not lay down the items automatically. It just allows you to place them

[zealous tide]

Yeah that's the first thing I wanted, I think this might actually work

gotta mess with it more

[versed violet]

remember to export to xml when done, it does not load png's 🙂

[zealous tide]

I don't think it does it, I can't figure out how to set the grid to what I want

I can change the size but not the square layout

[versed violet]

There should be diff square sizes for blocks you put on.

[zealous tide]

I want to change the grid to 8 per square instead of 4

so its an easy 8m haha

[jade minnow]

I don't really know the hassle everyone goes through when planning the machines inside their factory... You know the size of one foundation and what space each of the machines occupies. I mean... Everything when planning is just math so why not just calculate it? Why is everyone so obsessed with drawing etc? 🤨

[frosty owl]

I can see some uses for something like that
I'm personally against placing giant rows of machines (it looks boring to me) so I'd rather fit them in the nicest faction and location I have aviable, which of course puts some restrictions on space. Then it would be nice to have a tool that allowed me to plan the spacing for the refineries AND their beltwork/piping and to move different arrays (with the same spacing) around to fill my space efficiently
Did I give a good idea of what I mean? 🤔
Still, I wouldn't use such a tool since I like to do things myself :stuck_out_tongue:

[oblique hollow]

Refineries like to cuddle. that'll never change xd

[frosty owl]

Example screenshot. I could have all 24 refineries on one row, sure, but it definetly wouldn't be much fun for me to build them that way. I had this space (limited on all sides other then bottom) and found a way to fill it nicely with those 24. A tool like the one @zealous tide thought of could definetly cut down the planning time greatly, though

[vast jungle]

Refineries don't need factory halls... they need cathedrals or plane hangars to be put in 😉

[daring token]

Hello

[frosty owl]

I think that if refineries had a higher output, it would be easier to have them in a row along buildings containing arrays of smaller machines

[wind spade]

I get that, but that can be already done using draw.io 🙂

[frosty owl]

Cumbersome and slow, IMO, but I'm also not that familiar with that tool

"Slow" compared to placing things in game

[versed violet]

Is there an disadvantage in using multiple truck stations to load the same truck? They draw power only when loading or whole time?

[analog loom]

So i have 8 impure iron nodes and i’ve put them into 8 smelters. I need to know how many plate constructors and rod constructors (then screw constructors) i need to do to turn it into a reinforced iron plate factory running at peak efficiency. No blueprints involved, all belts and machines at mk1.

[versed violet]

There is a calculator under https://satisfactory-calculator.com/, click production planner.

[analog loom]

I cant get it to work right

[zealous tide]

That's exactly what I want to do lol

As in, cut down planning time for projects like this

I can't get the grid in draw.io to operate the way I want but if I can it might be the right tool

I also thought that blueprints with belt and power work would be really cool to look at xD

Two years from now if I wanna make a compact computer factory based on a certain design I can just pull out my old blueprint haha

[versed violet]

or, the game changes so much in the meantime they become obsolete

[zealous tide]

Certainly possible

[frosty owl]

Why not just replicate an existing setup you already have?
With standard recipes and underclock it's easy to get 100% efficiency if you manage your belts well enough

[analog loom]

I’ve never done a clean world like this before, just inefficient spaghetti. There is no setup to replicate

[frosty owl]

Replicate an unclean one and correct it. Much easier and faster then setting one up from scratch ^^

[analog loom]

What do you mean by replicate? I dont write any of my things down, i’d have to go between save files repeatedly to copy an old setup

[frosty owl]

Replicate as in: build something similar to what you made before, but improve on it to bring it to max efficiency

I hope you still remember it well enough to be able to rebuild it xD
Going through saves just for that sounds annoying

[analog loom]

I certainly dont remember any of it lol i havent been on this in quite awhile, and i have a horrible memory as is

[frosty owl]

Welp, then I suggest figuring out a layout to make reinf plates at 100% efficiency (any number that is easy ti make for you) then double/triple it until you run out of ore

[lyric basin]

is this the brain room?

[analog loom]

Yes but i have little brain to contribute

[frosty owl]

You came to the right place

[zealous tide]

Massive breakthrough! I knew I was forgetting a recipe

I was able to get the building count down to 85 for 11.25 HMF per minute

using wet concrete, solid steel ingot, pure iron ingot, iron wire

and encased pipe, steeled frame, encased heavy frame

[frosty owl]

Iron wire... I never tried that in all these years 😆

[zealous tide]

I'm just messing about on my tablet during this useless meeting so its clunky but when I'm off work I'm gonna play with it some more

I'm thinking that setting the numbers of manufacturers I want running at the end will be cleaner than maximizing to the resources

[analog loom]

Mao what are you using to set that up?

[zealous tide]

@analog loom https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[frosty owl]

Huh?
Also, imagine playing Satis on a tablet 🤣

[lyric basin]

So....say if I want spend 300 copper ore on 10 smelters, is there difference between building a long mk4 belt and many spliters with mk1 belt to smelter, than building a short mk4 belt and diving with mk2/mk1 belt to exact 30 ores for each smelter?

[zealous tide]

I was using the resources to limit the calculator, but instead I'm gonna use the max production rate of the number of manufacturers I want. And I'm using the calculator on tablet not satisfactory LOL

[zealous tide]

The difference is the fundamental difference between overflow manifolds and balancers, balancers distribute the items evenly immediately, manifolds have a lag time at the beginning but when running they are just as efficient, as long as they are being supplied with enough material to supply the sum of machines on the manifold

This is provided its all the same belt speed, you can get into weird voodoo with splitters and mergers with different belt speeds but I don't dabble with the dark arts 😂

[lyric basin]

[zealous tide]

In your case, not a big difference

besides the look and how your factory looks when you turn it on the first time lol

but in the manifold system the lines will be backed up on one side visually, in a balanced setup all of them are spread even

sorry, @lyric basin the manifold is your long belt with a bunch of splitters

[frosty owl]

I would have been very surprised if you were actually playing the game on a tablet :O (I was being sarcastic)
That choice depends on your playstyle, really. For instance, I'm interested in using up nodes completely, so I go from the bottom up (in the complexity scale)
On the other hand, when I wanted to maximize bauxite for TM production, it was easier to start from the manifacturers for TMs and work my way down

[zealous tide]

Could you imagine on a tablet lmfao. I realize I'm an idiot now lol
I'm just kind of having fun experimenting with the alternate recipes, and my goal was the smallest building count/footprint possible. Really just reduced complexity

But yeah I was trying to limit the size by manually limiting the iron to only 960

vs just setting maxing three manufacturers as the goal

[frosty owl]

I think going bottom up would be best then, unless you bring all resources to you rather then building where the nodes are. If you bring everything over, then it doesn't make much difference ai think

[zealous tide]

yeah I was doing it that way at first because I'm just using the two nodes in this area, but now I think I'm gonna set the goal at 11.25/minute and then recalculate all the recipe combos to compare them better. I think the last one will be the best tho

I'm gonna even see what the screw recipes look like for shits

[frosty owl]

About screws, casted ones are the best for resources, but the steel ones save enough time and machines to he worth the coal, IMO

And yes, if you wanna compare recipes, starting from a specific amount of final product sounds like the easiest/most convenient way

[zealous tide]

Haha yeah I was doing it like a dummy even though it was fairly useful still. It seems that some of the recipes that get more out of the resources require more buildings, but there are some combos that don't

[frosty owl]

Most of them require more machines/power, yeah.
Also refineries, which aren't great for small footprints ^^

[wind spade]

best for resources are steel rods -> normal screws 🙂

[magic shadow]

@frosty owl casted vs normie rods = tie

[frosty owl]

How is steel better then iron?

[wind spade]

weighted resources

[magic shadow]

1 steel bean = 52 screw

lol keeping that typo

[frosty owl]

Every calculation I made (so with "my weights") led me to believe I would run out of coal FAR sooner then I could run out of iron

[wind spade]

that's not even the best 🙂 best is steel rod -> normal screw

[weak elk]

how about adding water?

[wind spade]

my weights are based on relative appearance of given resource on the map.

always add water if you're looking for resource efficiency

[weak elk]

copy thanks

after like couple of mins my games slows down.dont know why.just reload the save sometimse

[frosty owl]

Which is cool and very convenient. But I think that coal should have a bigger value. Notice that you can do ANYTHING you can do with iron, but using steel, and still make stuff faster. But can't do the other way around

[wind spade]

keyword is think. At that point it no longer is objective 🙂

[zealous tide]

Well objectively it has a higher value no?

[wind spade]

if you find other (objective) way to weight raw resources apart from their relative appearance, I'll be happy to implement it

[wind spade]

sure, coal has higher value as it's less common. But even with that higher value it's still "better" to use steel rods -> normal screws

better = uses less weighted raw resources

[zealous tide]

I mean I guess it would have to be somehow related to other things it's needed in and their objective importance compared to stuff iron is in, idk.

That would be the hard part though for sure

Are they all weighted equally?

1 iron and 1 coal = 2 iron?

That's probably complicated to answer lol

[wind spade]

no, they are weighted based on their appearance on the map. If there's twice as much iron compared to copper, then copper has twice as much value as iron

[frosty owl]

Better is quite subjective though. Which is why that kind of weight can be helpful to some, but not to everyone ^^

[frosty owl]

Why not add a multiplyer to correct the value?

[zealous tide]

Okay right. But vencam was saying perhaps a higher weight would make sense because of coals added utility then?

If I'm understanding correctly

[wind spade]

well better is subjective, I agree, but in this case it's "better" in terms of weighted raw resources, which is objective (as it's purely mathematical)

[zealous tide]

Yeah idk how to objectively figure that out

[wind spade]

because the multiplier would have to be subjective 🤷‍♂️

[zealous tide]

Maybe a manual slider for the super nerds?

[magic shadow]

based on rarity relative to... limestone maybe?

[wind spade]

there's plan for that

[wind spade]

it's all based on rarity between each other

[magic shadow]

invest in resources

stonks

[frosty owl]

But even how we value resources is subjective 🤷‍♂️
There's people that would use silica to make concrete (so valuing limestone more then quartz in a way) and some who use oil to make steel through coke (so valuing coal over oil)
It's not like there is any "objective" way to value the resources everyone can agree on. Just one that most can agree on at best

For reference, what are the rarity values for iron ore and coal, @wind spade ?
Are those disclosable? xD

[bleak coral]

Choosing to weight resources by appearance is subjective yes. But it can be measured objectively.

It's also not a bad basis for building off of as long as you know what it's doing.

You have to choose some subjective basis for an efficiency solve, and it's never going to be universally applicable.

[frosty owl]

Which is why it's convenient. Again, I'm not against using that as value. I can't think of any other way.
But that doesn't mean that the planner's results are the "best" possible in all regards, due to said preferencies

[wind spade]

sure, that's why I resorted to a weighting algorithm that's clearly defined and vaguely represents relatively good weighting system. It's the most objective thing I could come with, although I agree using that weighting algorithm for player's production lines may be subjective. That's why it's planned to allow you to change those values

[wind spade]

just open the tools 😛

[bleak coral]

A good edition would be weighted based on inputed resources rather than total map resources.

[frosty owl]

I got it open, but can't find it

[wind spade]

indeed one of the plans 🙂

[bleak coral]

Though that's usually solved by maximize and switch back to items/min

[frosty owl]

Oh, sorry, I though you had some "easy" numbers like 1-2-3... silly me xD

[wind spade]

well internally it gets converted to some ratio numbers

but they aren't "pretty"

you can find them here https://github.com/greeny/SatisfactoryTools/blob/dev/src/Data/Data.ts#L28-L39

[bleak coral]

I might take a look once my power comes back on, I've always been curious how the math works

[wind spade]

in the future I want them to be 1-based, e.g. the least rare resource would have a value of 1, for more human-readable values

[wind spade]

most of the calculations are done by "external" API, which isn't part of that repository 🤷‍♂️ but I can do some explaining if you're interested

[bleak coral]

Maybe later

Hard to read code on my phone ❄️

[wind spade]

well the API is closed-source for now. v2 is in the works, which will be public and support multiple SF versions

but I can explain how it works and the math behind it 😉

[bleak coral]

Oh alright then yeah I'd love to hear an explanation of the math

[wind spade]

alright, short version is: linear programming, optimises a problem and returns a solution 😛

long version would probably have to go to DMs, as it's a lot of explaining

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_programming have fun reading if you're interested xD but it's just abstract article, I can explain the concrete ways of how I've done it in the tools

[frosty owl]

I should take the chance to inform myself... But I'm much too tired 😅

[wind spade]

I can explain it anytime 🙂 just shoot me a DM if you want

[frosty owl]

Btw, after some tool shenanigans I came to this conclusion: casted screws are the best screws for resource efficiency. Planner says so too!

Meaning the planner doesn't want to use steel to make screws for a maximized HMF production

[wind spade]

can you share the link?

[frosty owl]

Much appreciated. I hope I won't be able to get you in the only moment it's actually inconvenient for you, as I often do ahahah

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=5wyBvdfejJZlK3BftAOT

I took oil out as that made for "free steel", something nobody would do since we need oil for other things

[wind spade]

yeah, that's fair. Then again, this is a specific scenario, as you're capped by the amount of resources 😉

for most people that doesn't happen, as they didn't yet reach the map limits

[frosty owl]

That's kind of the point, since resources aboundance is what gives them "value"

[wind spade]

not really

you don't care how much iron is there if you want to make fuel

[frosty owl]

...isn't that what we just discussed? XD

[wind spade]

it's specific to what you want to make

the value should be assigned based on importance of the resource for your desired production

[frosty owl]

Even with that, I think it's fair to say, casted screws are the best ones. Even if one DID run out of iron because he used too much on screws... He could still go back to steel

[wind spade]

if I maximise RIPs, it gives me steel rod -> normal screw 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

Link?

[wind spade]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=ub5MMCeXdx7Z5aLRVcgp

(it's the same as yours, just changed HMF to RIP)

[frosty owl]

That's because it uses an unholy amount of iron to make... Iron Wire 🤮

Which makes sense in this scenario ofc, but....
IRON WIRE....

[wind spade]

iron wire is good 🤔

[sand garnet]

nah, not if there's copper around to use

[frosty owl]

It's really a waste of iron IF you have copper

[wind spade]

and well that's kinda my point. Different products use different resources in different ratios, so the value shouldn't be global. Which it is, because there's no better solution to this

[frosty owl]

The conversion ratio, compared to iron ore-wire is horrible. If you bring cat in the equation to it's even worse

[frosty owl]

On that I agree
I'm just debating how generally resource-efficient casted screws are

[wind spade]

for iron-only screws, I'd agree 😉

(and the tool would too)

[frosty owl]

Wait, why THIS?
Why doesn't it use the casted recipe here? o.O

Just to reuse the "screw" node, taking rods in?

[wind spade]

are you on "maximise"?

[frosty owl]

Yeah, it's the link you sent, minus iron wire

[wind spade]

if yes, try switching to "items/min" and put the max amount in there

maximise doesn't (yet) optimise for resource efficiency, so if there's e.g. abundance of iron, it just picks whatever solution it finds first

[frosty owl]

Yep, that was it

[wind spade]

uhhh

@pine tulip maybe delete those?

[frosty owl]

Just to know what to look out for, what're those?

It's not like one of those weird things that make apps bug, right?

[pine tulip]

pqp

sorry

[zealous tide]

rip

[analog loom]

So I have 12 rod constructors and I need to separate out 100/min from the 180/min in order to put them into 10 screw constructors and the last 80/min will be used after screws to make rotors. How do i cleanly separate that 100 from the 180 since the rods are made at 15/min

Tried web tools but still cant figure it out

[bleak coral]

Don't merge them in the first place

use clockspeeds and extra constructors to have a set of constructors be 100/min and another be 80/min

You could also just continue the line that's feeding the screws into the rotors without every splitting them if you're using manifolding, it'll balance itself out like a normal manifold

And yet another way is split it 3 ways into 3 lines of 60, then split one of the 60s another 3 ways so you now have two 60 lines and 3 20 lines. Then you can merge one of the 20 lines into one of the 60 lines and the other two into the other 60 line.

@analog loom

[analog loom]

thanks

[half mortar]

Yeah I was going to suggest using line speeds to split via Mk1 and MK2 belts then split accordingly

[split sequoia]

Hi All,
I’m new here.
With what tool is this chart created?

[cyan egret]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[oblique hollow]

@blazing lake

Reduces mk 1 to exactly a quarter

And the rest backs up onto the main belt

Might need to use 2 mergers for the feedback...

[wind spade]

wait what? that just does 52.5 on the top left belt

[oblique hollow]

Nope

Mk 1 with feedback reduces itself

Feed back once and it turns to 30. Feed back 30 into itself and it becomes 15

I can build it and prove it

[wind spade]

would need a smart splitter on main belt

[oblique hollow]

Nope!

[wind spade]

to have the mk1 split full

[oblique hollow]

Just need a high enough belt speed

Ill see what happens with mk 1 and mk 2

[wind spade]

time to build splitter simulator tool 🤔

[frosty owl]

As long as you want to split less then half the content of the main belt, the reducer works fine.
If the example was 105 on main belt and 55 out, it wouldn't

[blazing lake]

you rushed ahead @oblique hollow :p i needed 7 belts of 15, which i had already done but wanted to see if people had any compact ways of doing it bc 1-to-7 load balancers are quite the chonkster

[wind spade]

well the most compact is a manifold 🙂

[oblique hollow]

Why not manifold then

[frosty owl]

And there we go again...

[oblique hollow]

Xd

[blazing lake]

lol

they're not very satisfying for a game called satisfactory 😉

[wind spade]

they are pretty satisfying

[oblique hollow]

While im at it, ill see if i can compactify the classic 1-7 balancer for you, alright?

[frosty owl]

I personally don't really like when items move on the belt in a janky way when the belt is full :
I love the look a balancer gets when working properly, with no full belts

[wind spade]

you can make the split belts super short, almost not visible

[oblique hollow]

🙄 Game Updating. Great

[frosty owl]

That makes it hell for troubleshooting (hard to see item moving around) or changing the belt between the splitters :
Also, how am I supposed to show off the belting when I get the chance to, that way?

[oblique hollow]

FYI the 2018 trailer didnt use Manifolds either, so Balancers are obviously the dev's choice

[frosty owl]

I wonder if they do have a preference in that regard ^^

[wind spade]

why would you use any other belt than mk5? 😛

[wind spade]

it didn't use balancers either 🤔

it was full spaghetti

[oblique hollow]

You didnt even play the game when i last asked xd

[wind spade]

hey I have 30 hours on satisfactory!

[oblique hollow]

Behold! A full 30h!

[frosty owl]

Cause it makes it easier to know what amount of item should be on a certain belt and looks nicer to me :)
E.g.: when I make balancers I ALWAYS use the minimum belt possible, so whenever I get back there not remembering what was what, I have a good indication of the speeds I had in mind when building it

[wind spade]

no, not full. More than half of it is not playtime 🙂

[oblique hollow]

Lmao

So less than a full day spent playing

Smh

[wind spade]

rest of the hours are time spent getting data for my first version of tools

[frosty owl]

Get this noob out of here! #math-and-meta is for pros! 🤣

[wind spade]

alright imma head out bye

[wintry aurora]

I figured that those with blue names would have like hundreds of hours.

[blazing lake]

yep I am not a fan of splitters directly adjacent to other machines. I love seeing everything moving and grooving fluidly which is what i tried to avoid with the balancer too.

where are in-game screenshots saved?

[wind spade]

#faq

[magic shadow]

fest

[blazing lake]

Ah, I was looking for the right folder but wrong place 😄

[oblique hollow]

@wind spade

a bit more intricate but

it 15

[frosty owl]

Shouldn't that 30 be a 60?

[oblique hollow]

nope. 30, self feedback reduces 60 to 30

self-feedback only works for one stage, after that i had to merge the rest back into the main line

i could also feed back 40 by using 2 splitter sides, then id have 20.
this magic only works once though

you cant infinitely add self-feedback onto a line.
cuz merger priority

[frosty owl]

I think it'd be easier if you just split 60-30-15. You could fill the merger on the right and delete the one on the left

"Fill" as in use all inputs

[oblique hollow]

that would work too, yes

there, simplified

it was just to show the feedback principle

[frosty owl]

Ah, gotcha

[soft mist]

wow

i mean im in honors at my highschool but this is advances

[magic shadow]

math > meth

[soft mist]

nice

[fierce ruin]

Using math for meth > doing meth

[zealous tide]

That's why walter white is the greatest

[zealous tide]

what do you guys think of my tuck job? i think i might be able to have them connect to the pipe in the floor at a single point but this is pretty tidy. just a pipe looped under the foundation in the middle all the way down the line of gens. could power like 80 in this config in a row with mk2 pipes

its not as simple as just a straight pipe down the line and a 4-way connecting two at a time but this wasn't that much more effort and it turned out nicely imo

[eager nexus]

mk6 pipes?

[zealous tide]

mk2 xD sorry

i was thinking 600 per min

[eager nexus]

gotcha

[zealous tide]

just need to have two 600 per min inputs into the loop

and you can effectively "overflow" for double the capacity of the pipe

well idk the exact math actually, can you do up to twice the capacity of the pipe? i believe so

it's the same concept behind the 3/8 coal gen set up

[peak estuary]

i did a similiar build with coal gennies. having the pipes go down from the genny made the water flow glitchy. might do the same for you with intake of fuel. i had a pump on each pipe going from the main line under. and 3 water pumps pumpin in from the edges. and i had only 10 gennies. didnt work. hope your fuel gennies work. nice tuck btw

[zealous tide]

well 3/8 is the best ratio so that could've been your problem

unless the extractors were overclocked

i think the little foot of pipe i have in front of the gen should prevent the weird glitchiness with short pipes

but these all work great. i just don't use enough power to max them yet but they are all gucci

i only have 20 of them set up in a row anyway, the loop isn't even necessary right now. just playing around with layouts

one could set up another 20 with the same pipes or like another 60 in a row or something with mk2 pipes

[peak estuary]

i had 20/5 and it worked great. anyway, looks good. im about to something close to yours when im done doing all the groundwork for 2 pure nodes and a normal.

[zealous tide]

overclocked extractors right??

jeez those would have to be like each maxed out

youd need 900 water

eh i guess that isnt bad actually

im actually a fan of that, i dont think it uses that much extra power but cuts down a lot on extractors

[peak estuary]

not sure i OCed them. i just connected them into the same pipesystem. i had the coal gennies lined up, single line. and a pipesystem branching off on each genny. and the water supply hooked up on the opposite side of the pipesystem from the genny intake. 5 water ext with the same distance between them so they would help if another water extr was failing with demand. never had a bump down on the powergrid.

[magic shadow]

mk6 pipes when

[bleak coral]

mk6 pipes on version 27, only available for those on quantum computers

they'll both have the correct and incorrect amount of liquid in them

[eager nexus]

superposition fluids

[zealous tide]

LMAO

[frosty owl]

Worth it, imo

[zealous tide]

I love it. I'm thinking of maybe trying to connecting them to a single 4 way in the center of that frame foundation

If I could keep the pipe shape down into the foundation the same it would cut down an entire pipe

But that eliminates the "double pipe capacity" gained by looping them underneath

[frosty owl]

Personally, I'd love it if you found a way to show off some of the piping underneath with glass foundations ^^

[zealous tide]

Oh yeah that's a great idea. I was also considering doing the half-pipe method with glass on top

But I could actually just replace the foundations along the line with glass and you'd see the pipes underneath, that would look awesome!

[glossy rivet]

Am I missing something that the alternate recipe for oil > polymer resin isn't much more efficient, if at all?

It will require significantly more refineries to produce an equivalent amount of plastic and rubber as if I were to just refine the oil directly into those products. Whilst getting the same amount of heavy oil residue

[wind spade]

most efficient is diluted packaged fuel recipe

and alt recipes don't always have to be more resource efficient

they can be power efficient or less complex than normal recipes

there's always a tradeoff

[bleak coral]

I haven't thought about where the polymer resin alt fits, cause diluted fuel + recycled recipes are really really efficient, and the vanilla are nice and simple.

So outside a dedicated fabric factory I'm not sure it's very compelling.

[glossy rivet]

Yea the only upshot I could find was being able to automate fabric

But it doesn't seem like a resource that I need to dedicate that much energy into

[bleak coral]

yeah you could probably just make what you need and automate filters off a setup that has some polymer resin as a byproduct. I don't know if you need to dedicate a whole factory to making fabric.

[glossy rivet]

Right now, my buddy and I are looking at setting up our first oil production

And it's looking like we're gonna refine all our oil into 240 each plastic and rubber, and use the heavy oil residue for Coke for energy production

With the caveat that our energy production is now directly tied to our plastic and rubber production, but I think that's okay

[bleak coral]

As long as you make sure both sides overflow into a sink it's fine.

They won't be tied into energy production that way

Btw you do get more plastic/rubber out of the same amount of oil using the polymer resin alt + residual recipes. Just not as much as if you use the recyled recipes.

Each one gets more energy intense, requires more machines, and is more complex. So both efficiency and complexity increase with each: vanilla > polymer resin + residual > recycled > recycled + diluted fuel

[glossy rivet]

I was gonna say, to go the polymer resin alt route, we'd need like almost double the amount of refineries we would otherwise

[bleak coral]

more than double, and yeah I can't tell you if that's worth it

[glossy rivet]

And from what I calculated, it was only a gain of like 20 plastic/minute

[bleak coral]

maybe for rubber, probably not for plastic

vanilla plastic is 300 oil > 200 plastic and polymer resin + residual does 300 > 216.67

for rubber vanilla is also 300 > 200, but polymer resin + residual does 300 > 325

the residual rubber recipe is a lot better than the residual plastic recipe

[glossy rivet]

Hmm I think for simplicity's sake we'll stick with vanilla recipes for now

[bleak coral]

makes sense, I definitely wouldn't do it for plastic. It's an about 50% increase in machines and an extra step for mear 8.33% increase in efficiency.

I'd consider it for rubber because it about doubles the machines and adds an extra step, but it's a 62.5% increase in efficiency

diluted fuel plus recycled recipes blow both out of the water though, so those are the real treasures to get. Greatly increases complexity but it turns 300 oil into 900 plastic or rubber and has no byproducts.

[glossy rivet]

Ahh gotcha. Well our alternates are a bit limited as of now, so I guess we'll stick with what we got and in the future unlock the new recipe that makes us want to tear everything down and start over

Thanks for the help 👍

[bleak coral]

No problem 🙂

Btw I was doing all the calculations in this tool because you can turn individual recipes on and off and do maximise calculations: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

if you want to play around with it too

[glossy rivet]

Ahh gotcha thanks

We've created our own google sheet with all our inputs and formulas, so we're using that and brain power for our maths

I'm sure this isn't strange around these parts

[bleak coral]

Not at all 🙂

[magic shadow]

lorge

i only keep recipe names, ingredients, and products

to save paper

[bleak coral]

That's a map of my warehouse and a parts per minute tracker of it

so I don't overload lines

it's as much map as excel sheet

[frosty owl]

I wish I wasn't too lazy to make one too

On the plus side, I now have something to do during the (increasingly long) loading time: remembering the details of the beltmaze in the part of factory I plan to build in 🤣

[bleak coral]

I mean I could literally DM you the excel sheet and you could just change the values and copy-paste the columns for each mixed belt

[frosty owl]

Now, that sounds like the kind of homework I'd be glad to have someone else do for me
I'll gladly take you up on your offer, kind sir :3

[zealous tide]

@digital robin this is a junction design i came up with in early game to try to distribute a lot of different stuff in a lot of different directions

bottom is messed up alignment wise

would be nicer if you could have them back to back instead of every other

basically just merges then splits in a couple diff directions

couple of these in a row and you can make the best belt spaghett ever

have yet to try to set it up cleanly on foundations

also stacked like that you lose one side per merger/splitter

you could even build limiters into this with different conveyor lift marks i bet

@digital robin tucked underground pipes with glass idea from @frosty owl , easily do the same thing with belts.

[digital robin]

lemme take some screen shots in my save.Thought about the first idea and did not like expanding like that. Bout the 2nd idea imma already utilizing it rly often

thanks tho

[wintry aurora]

Huh, is that in vanilla?

[digital robin]

can be done in vanilla

[zealous tide]

yep

[zealous tide]

that looks like the same kind of way i was gonna set my stuff up, frames first

[wintry aurora]

I should experiment with that. I assumed the framework version wasn’t gonna be walkable or something.

[zealous tide]

i also like this tuck for belts

[wintry aurora]

THAT is so convenient.

[zealous tide]

nope you can walk in between the two pipes and jump out of it pretty easily actually

[wintry aurora]

And someone said you had to use a mod to do that.

[zealous tide]

the belts can be run through the frames same as the pipes too

[wintry aurora]

How do you ‘drop down’ through such a floor though?

Crouch?

[digital robin]

mods are a simple way around problems. it takes some moving here and there to figure it all out in vanilla

[zealous tide]

you cant fit in the quarter with the pipe or lift

[wintry aurora]

Well obviously.

[zealous tide]

so on my refineries above i have half the frame foundation under the building

but you could have half of it stick out to jump down

make a little hole like a firemans chute or something lol

but the fuel gens part has two open squares so thats easy to get through

[somber marlin]

how is do is me at the math

[frosty owl]

When you do something so cool, people ask of its vanilla

[frosty owl]

... What?

[vagrant goblet]

how do you fully contain the lifts and belts in the background like that? Where they are all sealed

[digital robin]

its a mod called "Covered Conveyor Belt" if u are referring to the black cover on the lifts in the background. else if u are referring to the design (being squared up) its simply a conveyor lift and a belt connected no the same height. That gives it the Pipelike "vertical design" look

[vagrant goblet]

yeah it was the covered convoyers i was asking about, i havent looked at mods yet for this so didnt recognise it

[digital robin]

^.^ go check em out. There are a lot of great ones that offer style and flexibility in builds. its a nice addition to the game xD

[naive ingot]

Equip [brain]
Use [brain] on [math]

[zealous tide]

Haha! That's gotta be the satisfactory equivalent of being called a hacker in an fps when you're not. Feels pretty good 🥰

Can we get a half glass foundation please!

[frosty owl]

Sigh
I wish...
Btw, @zealous tide, I'd love to see your vote too if you'd like to leave one :D
( #screenshots )

[zealous tide]

I'll definitely vote as soon as all the screenshots load on my phone 🥺

Lots of pixels in that channel I guess 🤔

[frosty owl]

Discord is not friendly to bad connections

[zealous tide]

Hmm I think the more open windows probably, I'm guessing the goal is to see the pipes from a distance and the grid window is very cluttered

So a or c

[frosty owl]

Not really, rather I think I'll be looking outside from there most of the time xD But who knows, it's all very WIP anyway 😅
But thanks for your input. Much appreciated :3

[zealous tide]

Ohhh okay haha. In that case perhaps the busier windows will be prettier during your maintenance runs xD
Im gonna try experimenting with just open scaffolding for my crawl/pipe space. Depends on where it's at but on a refinery/fuel gen set up it could look pretty neat

[frosty owl]

Also easier and faster to make

Setting up walls for tight spaces can be quite a pain sometimes

[zealous tide]

Absolutely. Especially with splitters. You can clip the splitter in if the wall is placed first but you can't place it after the splitter

[frosty owl]

That is SOOOO ANNNOOOYING!

Since dismantling a splitter means dismantling at least other 2 belts/lifts, if you've already connected it

[zealous tide]

Yep and I like to run my splitters right along the wall so if I decide to change walls it's usually a couple splitters or belts that need to be rebuilt every time

Or the entire manifold if I'm really worried about asthetics

[nocturne grail]

hey there, does someone have a refinery plan for 600 pc. oil?

[magic shadow]

this twice

unless you have no alts

[nocturne grail]

wow cool thanks 🙂

[versed violet]

Unlocked the alt recipe for Boom!-powder (the one with compacted coal). Should I change my 6x powder to 3x new powder setup now?

[vast jungle]

It saves Sulfur... which is a rare resource... so it could be useful.

But most likely you wont produce that much Nobelisk anyways

[versed violet]

Yes, sulfur is importantant. Making 45 powder/min because 30 goes to rifle ammo and 15 is for future nobelisk line. using the snowballs for now.

[vast jungle]

just have finished my own weapon factory with both nobelisk and rifle ammo... 🙂

[versed violet]

Single trip, and I blew through 8 slots of ammo 😁

Need machinegun!

[vast jungle]

yeah... the Rifle is.... .... ... lets say "okay"... but not great.

[zealous tide]

Rebar gun owns all

Easiest recipe in the game for ammo

[vast jungle]

that true

[zealous tide]

Plus you get to feel like an old colonist with a muzzle loader fighting off a bear in the wilderness, really get in touch with your primal instincts

[vast jungle]

from an "instant concrete bunker flying in the air" 😉

[zealous tide]

Exactly, it's all about contrast right?

[unkempt grail]

nobelisks are the best weapon

[zealous tide]

Wouldn't be so impressive if you didn't have to rough it every now and then and get your hands dirty

Beat up some local wildlife and industrialize the land like God intended

[sand garnet]

Rebar gun shoots wet noodles

[versed violet]

"Welcome to FicsIT deforestation initative.
As you proved your violence against nature, we will begin with awarding you a chainsaw."

[versed violet]

Tier 2:
"Your continued efforts has resulted in promotion to demolitionist and gives you access to more... volatile... methods of cleaning local wildlife."

[zealous tide]

Nah it's pretty solid

[unkempt grail]

nobelisk launcher when tho

[zealous tide]

Only like 10 shots xD

[sand garnet]

floop

[zealous tide]

I just cbf to automate beacons and stuff

[sand garnet]

Rebar scattergun when?

[vast jungle]

Screws as ammo?

[versed violet]

Tier 3:
"In recognition of your commitment to FicsIT deforestation initiative
we have unlocked the tools necessary for cleansing the land using hard gamma radiation. Please proceed with caution, as we prepare the orbital bombardment option"

[sand garnet]

Or bring back rifle mk2

[zealous tide]

How bout quartz crystal tipped steel rods

Like crossbow bolts

[sand garnet]

If the rifle had a scope it would be nice

[vast jungle]

a bit more ammo and it would be fine... 10 shots is awful...

[sand garnet]

Stack size is 200 now right?

Used to be 100

[vast jungle]

Stack size for Rifle is still 100

[topaz hedge]

I think the rifle is perfect as is.. stack size increase would be nice but as is it's balanced. If not a little op

[magic shadow]

ak-47 when

[severe bluff]

nuclear bomb when?

[magic shadow]

in mother massage spider slap you

[versed violet]

First Mithril factory, going to start with mk2 on pure bauxite node in center, then maybe add more.
Which setup looks better, left one with vanilla recipes, or the right one with electrode alt? More yield, but uses more power and more buildings.
Should also mention I have oil in vicinity, but don't think coal is near.

[oblique hollow]

AluMinion lol

[versed violet]

You know, Tolkien copyrights, need to mispell.

[oblique hollow]

Copyright on an entire chemical element? Not bad

[wintry aurora]

I don't think Tolkien has copyrights on mithril? Nevermind the fact that it's not even his creation, it's found in Norse mythology.

[oblique hollow]

Even Terraria has Mithril / Mythril

[versed violet]

#satisfactory message
I'm saying the power switch ui looks complex

Math channel, does a switch has an imaginary component in time domain?

[deft lichen]

I can see here too.

[pulsar edge]

hi my coal area was an absolute disaster and i finally decided to rework it today

could i have a bit of help with the numbers on it?

i want to get it set back up properly

[fierce ruin]

random, but ok

[pulsar edge]

lol ok

so how many coal plants can one mk2 miner supply?

[wind spade]

numbers:
8 coal generators
3 water extractors
120 coal

[pulsar edge]

alr great

[fierce ruin]

a lot, mine ran on 10 coal generators, on pure node, and it was strugling

but it worked

[wind spade]

keep in mind that you need either mk2 pipes or separate connections since it's 360 water

[versed violet]

which belt tier available?

[wind spade]

recommended setup is:

  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
  G  G  G  G

(E = extractor, G = generator)

[pulsar edge]

mk3 belts, mk2 miners, and mk1 pipes

i do have a few power shards if i need to overclock

[wind spade]

don't overclock anything apart from miners

[pulsar edge]

and i have 3 normal nodes

ok

[wind spade]

120 coal per 8 generators, it's simple 🙂

[versed violet]

Single miner on normal node can go up to 270 coal for you.

But best have 3 miners doing 120

then add more

[pulsar edge]

alr sounds like a good idea

[versed violet]

If you want minimum piping -> five water extractors connected one after another with mk1 pipes on each end will give you a loop to supply 13.3 generators

Important thing with coal power - make damn sure your highest pipe point is not above the maximum headlift of 10 meters. Use pumps otherwise. It is not fun to learn you lack water when plant gets stressed half day later

Fluid buffer goes onto highest point of pipe also, otherwise other pipes won't fill until it does.

[pulsar edge]

i find that mechanic strange

[versed violet]

Its actually pretty simple. water level want to stay the same in all connected pieces. and since buffer is big, it will take time to fill before water rises to overflow into next higher segment

[oblique hollow]

Hydrostatics

[frosty owl]

Is that some fancy kind of gymnastics?

[oblique hollow]

yes, waternastics

[pulsar edge]

Lol

I have set up the system but have yet to test it fully

I will report the results here when I’m done thanks for the help 🙂

[deep root]

I still don't see the point of buffers

[bleak coral]

fluid buffers? there isn't really one

they're useful if you do fluids by train, because you need a buffer for during the loading/unloading so that the fluids can keep flowing

same as is done with storage and trains for solids

that's about it though

[deft pike]

They can also be used as 'batteries' to store fuel for outages, but that's not really functioning as a buffer.

[fierce ruin]

i should do that for turbo fuel

i need to reorganize the refineries that make the HOR

[deft pike]

One thing I will mention is that I use buffers, and I get away with very rough math, using none of the calculation tools because the buffers give me slack to work with. I can use the buffers to monitor whether I'm producing too little or too much, and start implementing changes to a factory without the entire production line coming to a standstill.

This isn't as efficient or effective as just crunching numbers, but that's not really what I want from my game experience, so buffers allow me to play and have an effective factory in a way that's fun for me.

In short, I think buffers are largely there to enable more playstyles, rather than enhance the 'meta' playstyle.

[fierce ruin]

buffers are one way to prevent fuild backups

or in another case storing extra fuel in case of outages or reorgnizing stuff

[deft pike]

True, you could have an array of buffers you flush once a week if you didn't want to actually manage your excess fluid and turn it into something useful. I forget that.

[fierce ruin]

i was thinking more off for fuel generators so you'll have a surplus of fuel in cause of something tripped the breaker or you are redoing something and don't want to run out of fuel

as well as a buffer like for HOR

since turbo fuel burns as a slower rate

vs normal fuel

[deft pike]

No, you were clear about that idea. But, your point raised another, and I was trying to expand on the uses since someone had asked how they could be used.

[fierce ruin]

i tried to use buffers to attempt to unblock my alliunium line to no avaiable (until i realize i had the math all wrong) and scrapped the whole thing

[tardy bough]

at what distance should i start using trucks over belts lol

[fierce ruin]

trucks?

i would avoid trucks and wait till you have trains

[tardy bough]

then same question bc i could do trains rn

20 computers away ill just hand craft

[fierce ruin]

probably 600m to 1km

maybe sooner at 500m hard to say

[deft pike]

Vehicles of any sort work when it's further than you want to run belts. This should set the maximum distance to go before implementing them.

For the minimum, think about the space it takes to set up the vehicle/train loading platforms and consider the distribution network around them. That sort of gives you the absolute closest that it's sane to put them.

Side note: I really love using tractors, and have vehicles all over my bases. They're a bit quirky and can be frustrating, but they're also a lot of fun.

Just make sure that you don't use the vehicle paths for foot travel or you'll soon feel like the avatar of roadkill.

[tardy bough]

i just use jetpack and explosives to get everywhere

if you put them under a foundation you get the speed bost but not the damage if your on the other side

[zealous tide]

That's a pretty nifty idea

[tardy bough]

works best with snowballs but not everyone has a back stock from a Christmas save

but still works with nobelisks

[lyric basin]

How far should I stay away from 780 uranium ores

[deft pike]

I don't know the direct answer, but this is the place to start: https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Radiation

[tardy bough]

2-3 snowballs point black would normally kill you

[deft pike]

Looks like 50 meters, though, according to the calculator linked on that page.

[amber jacinth]

What’s the easiest way to move items between the buildings in this oil plant? I only have mk. 4 conveyors, so keep that in mind. I can’t mass merge then mass split, as that would cause inefficiencies and uneven splitting.

[deft pike]

Uneven splitting doesn't really matter. Things that get too much will back up and force the input to go down other paths of the split. Merging more than the capacity of the belt, is still an issue, though.

[tardy bough]

it matters if your using everything

and dont want to wait for overfill

[deft pike]

True. But, that's making the puzzle magnitudes more difficult just to save a little time at the start of production.

You'll end up wasting that time several times over in design and construction.

I'm too tired to think. -_- Sleep it is. :/ Good luck.

[tardy horizon]

got this problem at night, it takes me nearly an hour to figure out why my generators don't get enogh water from 4 pumps with one giant tank between the pumps and the generators. The tank is on waterlevel like the pumps, but the generators are above the tanks, even with an half filled tank the generators wont get enough water to run more than 10 minutes

[tardy bough]

how many water extractors you got?

[tardy horizon]

got 4 extractors for 18 generators,

4 extractors filling 3 tanks for 3x6 generators

works well

[tardy bough]

you need more

i think

[tardy horizon]

if i plug more generators the waterflow collaps

[tardy bough]

no

more extractors

coal gens yes?

[tardy horizon]

coal got an container as buffer, and the container is nearly full all the time

[tardy bough]

then you have a pipe problem

[tardy horizon]

watertanks are filled half, constantly

[tardy bough]

can i get a pic

of the set up

[tardy horizon]

gimmi a sec

need to start the game 😄

gimmi 2 seconds, need to travel to the position 😄 😄

[tardy bough]

still think you need more extractors tho 4 extractors is like 480/m and 18 gens needs 810/m

[bleak coral]

1. this way too little water, you need 6.75 water extractors for 18 coal generators since they need 45 water per minute each at 100% load
2. are they all going through one pipe? cause only 300 fluid per minute can go through one mark 1 pipe and 18 generators needs 810 water per minute

[tardy bough]

he would need 2 pipes no mater what even in t2 pipes

[bleak coral]

yeah

I'd do a 2:1 setup for this, 9 water extractors at 75% clockspeed each feeding two generators

[tardy horizon]

oh, i see i got 6 extractors, not just 4

[bleak coral]

since it's not divisible by 8, which is what makes the 3:8 setup nice

[tardy bough]

still would need more and have 3 seperate pipe systems with t1 pipes

bc they can only do 300/m and you need 810/m

[bleak coral]

2:1 you have new pipes for each pair of extractors if you do it on the water, simplifies it

[tardy bough]

its been a hot second since i did vanila power is so nice haveing actual numbers in game

[tardy horizon]

https://prnt.sc/101lunb

and to generators are still out of bussiness ...

*two

[tardy bough]

pipes are the choke i think hard to tell

[tardy horizon]

but ist a coal problem and not a water problem

[bleak coral]

I can't see all the piping, but you're underfeeding it and I'm pretty sure you're overloading some pipes

[tardy bough]

whats your coal node?

[bleak coral]

if it's a coal problem now, it's gonna be a water problem later

(this is why they're changing it so power production doesn't scale)

[tardy horizon]

eating from two normal nodes with some extra splitproduktions on it

[bleak coral]

what mark miner?

[tardy horizon]

mk2

[bleak coral]

and other stuff is using the coal too?

[tardy horizon]

one of it is overclocket with 3 shards

6 steel ingocs thingies

https://prnt.sc/101lvz0

[bleak coral]

what mk belt and how many of them is it coming in on?

[tardy bough]

that could be your problem lol 6 founders uses like 240/m i think

[tardy horizon]

mk4 belt

[bleak coral]

but yeah sharing with the foundries is probably also an issue

you've gotta do the math, that's what a lot of this problem is

coal generators need 15/min each at 100% load

[tardy horizon]

yeah, after setting it up witrh unlimited production with intelligent splitters ist getting overpowered at the moment

but i'm planning to outpost the generators to 2 pure nodes

[bleak coral]

so you have to leave at least 270/m available for the generators for 18 generators

[tardy horizon]

i startet the game 2 weeks ago, the math starts last night 😄

[bleak coral]

do the pipes get merged after the buffers? or do they stay as 3 separate lines

[tardy horizon]

no, eachj buffer feeds 6 generators

water isn't the problem now, its the coal

[bleak coral]

it will be a problem if you go over 88% power usage

and/or when update 4 drops and power stops scaling, whichever happens first

[tardy horizon]

each tank got a buffer of 1700m³+

[bleak coral]

that just delays them starving

and it'll start using it silently, you won't know unless you watch your power and realize you're over your limit