math-and-meta

[calm iron]

so 240/min.

[naive ingot]

Copper Alloy+Fused Quickwire=need more belts.

[inland kelp]

can hauling by train typically surpass that of a Mk5 belt?

[torpid robin]

With more carts or more trains yes

But to a point you are still restricted to what you can feed it with

[inland kelp]

ah good point

Train: <FFFF>
Track and stations: <Tffff=========TF============FFFT>
Where F = loading stations and f = unloading stations and T = train station
Is this possible to do with bi-directional train
and if so which direction should the middle T face?
Or can it be either and depends on my train table setup?

[torpid robin]

Like I’m collecting 42k ore from grasslands . That’s like 55 belts but 9 trains handle it all

Middle one can face anyway at that point . But there is no need for a middle train

But yea what you wanna do is possible

[inland kelp]

the T is a station

[torpid robin]

Oh I’m with you now

[inland kelp]

I'm assuming face it this way <

[torpid robin]

Face it the way it will come into the station when it’s loading

When setting it up . Pretend that train doesn’t go any further

Idunno if that makes sense

[inland kelp]

um not really

[torpid robin]

This pretty much lol

[inland kelp]

table setup, I seen a video that suggested you had to duplicate stops, maybe that was patched?

[torpid robin]

Well it depends . Are you going to load it on the way to the unload station . Or are you gonna stop and load when it goes towards the loading stations

[inland kelp]

expecting to unload, then go out to end, load 3 then on way back load forth

[dire quail]

How much coal/m in consumed by a coal generator if it's working at max capacity?

[inland kelp]

with 3 shards it's a 2 sec burn, and takes 91 m^3 / m water but it doesn't really say how much coal it's using per min

[torpid robin]

Don’t bother over clocking it . Just do standard . At that is 15 coal pm

So to make it easy for you . 3 extractors . 8 coal gens 120 coal

[dire quail]

👍 thx

[inland kelp]

I tend to over feed htem and let a smart splitter overflow the excess for steel

[torpid robin]

Or just make the ratios correct for your steel and power

Then you know yours tell is always producing right

There is no real need for the extra complication

[inland kelp]

It's truly a thing of beauty when a train gets setup and working properly. I'm now torn between the Explorer and Trains being my favorite part of the game

[wintry aurora]

How do you set a smart splitter to divert overflow? I didn't see an option to do that when I looked, only option was to sort by item type.

looks at wiki duh....

[jolly sphinx]

How many fuel generators can I have per extractor

with no power shards

[wintry aurora]

The general ratio is three water extractors per 8 coal plants, not sure on fuel gens.

[jolly sphinx]

Coal is a lot simpler

[wintry aurora]

True.

[jolly sphinx]

Fuel gens are just annoying

I'm trying to get 3 going filling up a industrial fuel thing to help me track it

[rough hatch]

Biggle Back Begger

[fresh wedge]

is there a software that i can use to make a 100% efficient factory

[jolly sphinx]

A calculator?

[fresh wedge]

yeah

[wind spade]

that was answer to your question

check the pins for some of the calculators that are out there

[wind spade]

fuel gens don't need water, do they?

[jolly sphinx]

they do not

[wind spade]

then what does the extractor in your message refer to?

[jolly sphinx]

fuel extractor

[oblique hollow]

You mean Oil

[jolly sphinx]

yeah

[oblique hollow]

Depends on the recipe you use to make fuel

[wind spade]

then answer to your original question is:
depends on your recipes

[oblique hollow]

jinx

[jolly sphinx]

say its all plastic

I'm currently filling up an industrial thing so I might be able to work it out using that

I know you can have 3 refinerys per extractor

gens use 15 fuel a min right?

[oblique hollow]

yea

[jolly sphinx]

this is what I've got saved

cause it say 129 does that mean 129/15 = how many fuel gens I can have?

[pearl kite]

@jolly sphinx It depends on how much you are producing. In case you are producing 150 fuel/min, you should be able to supply 10 fuel generators. That means you can produce 10 fuel generators * 150 MW = 1500 MW.
Dont look at your fluid buffer if you want to know how much fuel you are producing because the output/input of that is inconsistent. Just add up the values of your refineries.

[jolly sphinx]

ah ok

so its 120 fuel/ min I'm producing

only using 3 out of 6 oil spots in the area

[vast jungle]

I have to connect five belts to a train station with 4 freight terminals... do you think its enough to put each full belt on a dedicated train station, put the partial belt on the first station and use belts to feed items from the 1st to the 2nd station, from 2 to 3 and from 3 to 4?

[random warren]

you need 4 freight terminals for the same item?

[torpid robin]

I wouldn’t advise . Cause you should have an isc in front of . With 2 belts connected to the freight platform

[random warren]

if that's so, i suggest you put each belt on its own dedicated input

[vast jungle]

4 freight terminals is my default train station design... and the factory is outputting 5 belts of Steel Ingots

[random warren]

what rank of belts?

[vast jungle]

MK4 (I am Tier 6)

2160 Steel Ingots per Minute

[random warren]

that's quite a lot. what's the round trip time of this particular train?

[vast jungle]

at the moment there is no destination to deliver them... its just production and keeping it to ship it off to a factory (or factories) yet to be built

[random warren]

okay well i have a hard time seeing it use up 4 full cars at any rate

but... uh

[vast jungle]

having "more" train stations doesn't sounds problematic... its more a design decision than a necessity

[random warren]

i've often found that a container buffer between production and the freight station is useful

[vast jungle]

thats why I built 4 freight terminals for all stations ^^

[random warren]

because.... the terminal stops allowing input during loading

[vast jungle]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/K6dHbQ59c3pp9tdJ8

[random warren]

i guess your original idea is fairly sound. 2 into the first one, then 1 into the others with a daisy chain?

[vast jungle]

that was the plan... because it allows me to do it without stange splitter/merger chains...

[random warren]

but there's not much point in worrying about it if any one belt backs up. any way you shake it you'll lose production

[vast jungle]

yeah... most likely I will put on 5 Awesome sinks first to see if everything in the factory can do the rates

[random warren]

and if you're already running at max capacity of your highest tier belt, there's no way that a merger will make anything better

[vast jungle]

exactly

this is the beginning of the factory:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/e6KLevmf8kb6ArBt7

[random warren]

altho, feeding it into 5 separate industrial containers might help you sort it out

[vast jungle]

I will look into it... there is more than enough space below the train stations

[random warren]

with the two belt in/out it's like a built in splitter

[vast jungle]

but when I do this with 5 containers, I have to somehow combine the 10 output belts into the 8 inputs of the train stations... hmm...

have to see how the rates play out with the split manifolds... most likely one or two belts will be below limit, the others will be higher...

might a priority merger a good idea? Make sure 4 of the belts are completely full and 1 is the remainder?

Hmm... maybe feed each of the four belts into a single IC and feed the remainder belt into a 4-way balancer to the same 4 containers on the second input?

[oblique hollow]

To get 4 full belts and then remainder, you would only need 3 smart splitters: one side is normal output, and the overflow goes to the next

[random warren]

maybe the easiest thing to do is make your station have 5 freight loaders?

[vast jungle]

I don't want to... first, I need to keep this in mind on the receiver side(s)... 2nd, it would require a second locomotive...

I am not trying to build dedicated train tracks for a special connection, I am building a generic network and plan to use it for everything.

but I think I already got some good ideas from this... its my first time I build a factory that cannot be handled with 1-2 belts of output 😉

I just remembered the coal input is 2160 too... will be fun to watch if everything works out GG

oh no, its only 1440... easy 😉

[oblique hollow]

Priority Merging is a topic i only ever see come up once there is "I have a system that produces X, and i want to use that, but i also produce X elsewhere and cant figure out how to make my machines use 1 over the other"
But.... thats only an issue when you have inconsistent output.....

[vast jungle]

maybe I should skip some mess and just feed all 8 output lines of the manifolds to the train stations... that would make attaching and balancing much easier (I have 4 manifold lines of 9 foundries... each split 4/5).

will take a few days to setup the rest of the belts and pipes... I will come back with some results as soon as I can.

[random warren]

well, if you want to balance the loading, i suggest 1 belt to each freight station, then the 5th belt put 2 levels of splitters into 2 each, 4 belts, 1 into each freight loading

[peak meadow]

I will build some coal generator close to 4 coal mines, I did a bit of calcul, is someone interested in checking it?

link to it https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mGwFkm0S31lGI7gK-mni8TOFTWDzE-dbsLYhGpqjzas/edit?usp=sharing

first time I do it so I may have done some mistakes

[sinful vale]

gonna assume that you are working with mk2 belts, right?

[peak meadow]

I didn't do any calcul for the belts, but I have mk3 if needed

[sinful vale]

if you have mk3 then you can build considerably more

when working with coal power, do so in increments of 120 coal to not have to deal with decimals, clockspeed or overproduction

[peak meadow]

😅 but 28 is way enough for me

[sinful vale]

you can overclock the 120 miners up to 240, and make to sets, and the 60 to 120

[peak meadow]

ok I can do that

[sinful vale]

if you work with increments of 120, it would be sets of 8 gens and 3 water extractors divided into 2 pipes

[sinful vale]

better safe than sorry, there is no real drawback in setting it up beforehand, and they will be your main power source for a good while

[peak meadow]

I took note of the 120 / 8 /3 / 2, it's great for me

[white forge]

i like groups of 6 coal generators

[mental vale]

1+1=2 2+2=5

[magic shadow]

🤔

[outer tangle]

Hey guys just wondering. How many coal plants can 1 water pipe cope with? Also how many water extractors do i need per group of plants?

[sinful vale]

each extractor produces 120 water, an mk1 pipe can take 300 and each gen consumes 45

as per groups, a set of 8 gens can be fed by 3 extractors divided into 2 pipes

[outer tangle]

Awesome thank you

Also i got a coal mine going direct into the plants. Is that efficient or should it be smelted first?

[sinful vale]

i mean, if you find a way to smelt coal, go for it

[outer tangle]

Faceplant Got trolled by my bro

Let me reboot Brain.exe

[slate haven]

Question guys. I have 7 coal gens which consume 315 water. And first lvl pipes. Why do I still have 100% efficiency?

[sand garnet]

because coal gens only take what they need

if they run at 50%, it means that they only require 157.5 water

[slate haven]

They run at 100%

All 7

[sinful vale]

let me guess, your power consumption is less than 95% of your power capacity

[bleak coral]

max power is not produced power

[slate haven]

Yes, is that the thing?

[sinful vale]

yes

they will consume water according to your grid's power consumption

if the grid's power consumption is lower than 95% they will need less than 300 water, and as such they will run normally

the problem would arise once that the water demand goes above 300, then your grid will shut down

[slate haven]

Gotcha, I though if I have max prower 3gw it actually produces 3gw all the time

[wind spade]

no, since electricity cannot be overproduced 🙂

you either have to store it or use it

[oblique hollow]

and we cant store it so

[sand garnet]

arent geothermal gens technically able to overproduce?

[oblique hollow]

realistically thats kinda a lie too but... yeh

[night jay]

Technically speaking they should. You can't exactly control the geysers and tell them to not shoot out.

"Each Geo Thermal Generator always produces power at its capacity regardless of power consumption. "

from the wiki, so yeah it will still produce and actually not match your consumption

[slate haven]

What if you have 2gw from Geo and 2gw from coal, using only 2.5gw, would then coal work at 25% ?

[dusky dust]

Yep

[ancient halo]

Am I counting this right, a pure Cure Oil node 250% makes 600m3, with 10 refineries making fuel you can power 26,6 fuel generators ?

[dusky dust]

Yep, spot on. :)

[ancient halo]

That's a lot of power compared to my 2200 MW ..

[dusky dust]

It might be worth noting that in some cases (whose exact parameters we still don't quite know), fluids which max out a pipe like that end up mysteriously losing efficiency at some point

So your fuel gens might end up tripping sometime before they hit 100%

So long as you're not running close to your power limit it shouldn't be a problem though

[ancient halo]

Alright, thank you!

[dusky dust]

np!

[hot ginkgo]

Definitely second that. Pushing pipes to their max causes weird issues. Fluids vanishing kind of issues.

[dusky dust]

I'd honestly be less worried about it with generators

Since you're probably already in trouble anyway if you're operating close enough to the power ceiling where the loss would start to be problematic

[solemn atlas]

How far apart do you build stackable poles, for max length belts?

[dusky dust]

7 foundations

[solemn atlas]

TYVM!

[dusky dust]

np

Or just drag the belts until they turn red, of course

I generally much prefer dragging belts themselves as opposed to putting down the poles first

Though of course if you're doing stackables you don't have much choice

[solemn atlas]

Ya; I wish I could drag them then stack

Or that the pole would snap to the belt base

[dusky dust]

Yeah, that'd be nice

[regal canopy]

This would be very cool.

Go upvote it! https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/5ead64016f3c82fe950af771

[random warren]

there's no such thing as overproducing power. hydroelectric dams need to have a 500 MW resistor next to them to use up power in the case of a sudden load drop, so that the valve on the penstock can be closed, or the turbine whirrs right out of the dam. every watt that is drawn off the coils results in "resistance" to turning of the shaft by way of magnetic force.

[sand garnet]

this isnt reality though

dont assume the game works just like real life

[random warren]

no, but thankfully it does or it would break my immersion and i wouldn't get so many hours of enjoyment out of it

[sand garnet]

people have these weird things about immersion lol

[random warren]

heh. also imagine having a single cable on a 3m pole that can carry 3-5 GW of power ;)

[sand garnet]

you're on an alien planet, spawning items out of a pocket dimension, to build floating factories and deal with fire spitting mobs etc

but yeah, the power production thing? that's the limit.

[random warren]

well. in reality power plants can overproduce but the actual generator cannot. steam boilers over pressure and lift the safety, wasting all sorts of precious fuel

[sand garnet]

geothermal generators will produce max power, whether you use it or not

[random warren]

you mean... in the game?

[sand garnet]

well yeah

[random warren]

i imagine that's a feature and not a bug

[sand garnet]

it is

[random warren]

since it doesn't take fuel, use the power from the fuel-less gen to 100%, and then use the fueled gens

[sand garnet]

yup

[random warren]

golden. i just unlocked them... and i want to go build some

[sand garnet]

theres

[random warren]

but they're rather far and running a powerline seems rather monotonous

[sand garnet]

18 of them across the map, so 3600mw of power if you hook them all up

it's worth it IMO

[random warren]

in that regard, do mk2 and mk3 poles go further than mk1?

[sand garnet]

no, they only have more connections per pole

[random warren]

righto thanks

[sand garnet]

4 - 7 - 10

[wooden pond]

thats the cable your talking about, theres no mk2 cable

[random warren]

there's coated cable!

[wooden pond]

just a recipe

[random warren]

just pedantry

[sand garnet]

different recipe for the same item

[wooden pond]

lol

[random warren]

funny how you can take two spools of copper wire and magically get insulated cable with multiple conductors

[sand garnet]

game logic

[random warren]

is gaem

realism lost. can't play :(

[sand garnet]

fun is more important than realism

[random warren]

eh. that's not black and white tho

[sand garnet]

example?

[random warren]

i think we just hit the nail on the head twice

having the power plants scale back when not fully utilised is nice realism

but needing to go get polymers to make insulation for power cables to build your first smelter is unrealistic for a game

un fun. impossible to start out a bootstrap factory, or unlock tier zero

[sand garnet]

I dont think the first is done because it's realistic, and the second is done because it just adds a challenge + reward for overcoming that challenge

[random warren]

true. and i might even use the recipe for coated cable in my current factory, having a surplus of oil. but i have plenty of cable made already without much consumption so... don't need to.

[sand garnet]

I dont think coated clable is good because of the resources it requires and you never really need that much cable to begin with

[random warren]

indeed. i often wish for the red limiter streak of factorio boxes

having 2 full train stations and a container full of cable is... way too much.

[topaz hedge]

coated cable = bad insulated cable/rubber cable = good only if you need a bunch

[glacial hemlock]

When i come in and i read 'coated cable = bad insulated cable' wut? Someone call the qc

[scenic prism]

Im working on my new power grid, and im about to start hooking up my turbofuel to my fuel generators, im generating ~600 p/m of turbofuel
How much fuel generators do i need?

My calculations are showing 133 but that can't be right... right?

[sand garnet]

One gen takes 4.5 per min afaik

[scenic prism]

That means my numebrs were correct

Oh no

[sand garnet]

Yea sounds about right

[slate haven]

Turbofuel: Useful for pre-nuclear setup. "Turbofuel" is preferred over "Turbo Heavy Fuel", as it has a better conversion rate from Heavy Oil Residue. Combine with "Heavy Oil Residue" and "Diluted Packaged Fuel" for extremely efficient Fuel Generator supply, with the ability to run ~148 Fuel Generators (22,222 MW) from just 300 Crude Oil per minute.

[naive ingot]

I mean, you could put down 74 generators with 222 power shards.

[scenic prism]

-._-.

[naive ingot]

I was mostly joking around, but I might have the shards to actually do that...

My doggos have been good to me.

[vast jungle]

As promised (and based on the feedback here): The coal input for my Ingot factory... 4 nice MK4 belts of coal...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HXaqusVDbUbHsU3F6

[near imp]

if my assemblers overproduces at a rate of .3 how much will it affect the production line

[jade violet]

@near imp every 3.3 minutes you produce 1 extra

so over the course of an hour you'll have ~20

[near imp]

thats annoying

so after 3 hours its clogged up

[sand garnet]

so put a smart splitter on the link and dump all the excess

problem solved.

[near imp]

doesnt smart splitter just separate different types of items

[zealous dagger]

it has a bleed for ‘excess’

[near imp]

oh

oooooh

that solves so many problems

thank you kind stranger

[vast jungle]

It's the best function of the smart splitter... "Overflow"

[unkempt grail]

so when your 20 industrial storage containers fill up after 50 hours you can auto-sink them

[sudden oriole]

Yes I do the same in my "mega" storage

[inland flume]

would i be able to set up a manifold on one end of a smart splitter, and have the excess/overflow from that go back into the main conveyor line and into other production lines?

[eager nexus]

Yup, just merge the overflow output of the splitter to your main line

[inland flume]

sweet

ig i could do that already, since manifolds eventually fill up anyway

my big problem right now is that i don't have steel production yet for level 3 conveyors, but i decided to build a pretty big iron factory for my current level to produce modular frames, rotors, and reinforced plates

ive been stressing over trying to divvy up the resources perfectly to each section of the factory but idk if it's worth the hassle

[bronze schooner]

im rn working on grinding tiers, i have all the resoures near by hooked up and being smelted into a storage room

[median void]

Question. Should I calculate the resources that my assembly line produces by myself or should I use a calculator?

[vast jungle]

I think its good to do a few calculations yourself to get all the concepts down... but at a certain point of complexity its beginning a lot of time, so use the calculator.

The calculator is also great to experiment with the number... e.g. find a sweet spot where most of your machines run at 100%

[median void]

I believe I've already learned the concepts after the Factorio discord shat on me for being too lazy to calculate boiler/steam engine ratios

[vast jungle]

I must admit I like "satisfactory tools" more than "Satisfactory Calculator", but this is personal preference...

if you know what you are doing, use the calculators as much as you want... life is too short to waste 10 hours on math only to discover your misplaced a decimal at the start 😉

[median void]

Hm. Alright, thanks!

[torpid robin]

i agree with this. by all means do some calculatioans yourself. so you udnerstand. but the amount of time it takes its much simpler to use the calculator. cause you can change recipies out for other alts. and you can see resource consumption quickly. rather than having to do the whole thing agaion

[vast jungle]

oh, one more thing... you will notice that the calculator sometimes doesn't output the stuff you want... so experiment with setting resources as additional inputs, otherwise it will confuse you with the details efficient rubber production when you want to build supercomputers (and the rubber stuff is already done) 😉

[fierce ruin]

how would I calculate the amount of smelters i can have per node

[vast jungle]

you have an output per node... in "x per minute"

you have a smelter input in "y per minute"...

just divide the two numbers... x/y

[fierce ruin]

ok thanks

[vast jungle]

example:

• node with 120 ore/minute
• smelter with 45 ore/minute

=> 120/45 = 2.66666
so its two smelters and third at 67%

[frosty owl]

Same logic that I apply to building big foundations without mods, and yet I still don't use the production planners ahahah

I'm in the "math for Satisfactory, not school" team

[solemn atlas]

Tried looking through the blueprints; didn't see it. Does anyone have a graph for aluminum?

[magic shadow]

#math-and-meta message
but possibly wait on aluminum bc update 4 is going to change everything related to it

[solemn atlas]

When is update 4 scheduled for release?

[wind spade]

around march iirc

[magic shadow]

marchtober

[oblique hollow]

March 2nd to March 16th

[summer mauve]

A mk.3 on normal can make 240/min, so at 250% that's 600, which can in turn produce how many metal plates?

[wind spade]

depends which recipes are you using

[summer mauve]

Baic one

basic

[sand garnet]

isnt it 20 plates for 30 ore?

[slate haven]

If I remebmer right it's 30 ore to 30 ingets, and 30 ingets to 20 plates so it's 400

[summer mauve]

Is that overclocked?

[sand garnet]

no

[wind spade]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=5Ciy9JWSgsyWyyc64E91

[summer mauve]

So basically a shit ton of smelters needed.... and thats a lot of plates... planning this is harder than I thought lol

[wind spade]

that's like nothing compared to future tiers 🙂

[slate haven]

20 smelters and construcktors

[summer mauve]

Jesus god okk Ill stick with 200/min then...

[slate haven]

If you have mk4 belts, no need for load balancing, go with simple overflow

[summer mauve]

im using mk5

[slate haven]

You are gucci then

[summer mauve]

Got my nuclear plant running with ~27k power, so wanted to make a much larger factory, base of 41x41

Maybe expanding on the y axis too eventually

[slate haven]

Do you have the storage area?

[summer mauve]

I haven't placed anything down yet, except for a few smelters

And to fit copper and limestone in I'd need at least to get the y axis to 100 and I have no where near that much concrete rn

[slate haven]

How come, there's planty of limestone nodes all over the map

[summer mauve]

I originally only had a small-scale factory in a little nook w/ only one limestone node and 1 production line

I plan on making the 20 line now

I could make a temporary production for it rn tho

[slate haven]

I mean if you build huge mega factory you must have limstone near by

[summer mauve]

I went to the swamp area with the arch-mountain thing

And theres limestone here

[slate haven]

The first spaen area? That's where Im at

[summer mauve]

I think so

I didnt start here tho

[slate haven]

There'se huge amount of limestone

Like 4-5 nodes close by for sure

[summer mauve]

I see atleast 2 but probably need 1 at most

[slate haven]

If pure

[summer mauve]

I mean boosted normal can give me 600/min

[slate haven]

Oh yeah, forgot you have mk3

[summer mauve]

Yup

How many constructors is that oof

[slate haven]

13

13.3 to be exact

[summer mauve]

Ill use less than that but still get good numbers lol

OOOo and the limestone is purew

And IU forgot container materials

Nevermind it was impure hiding under pure...

[shy mason]

yeah all the rocks that block nodes are pure.

[normal fog]

Is there a load balancer calculator of sorts for big scale balancing?

[vast jungle]

I don't think so... and most people use manifolds instead of large scale balancers

[wind spade]

usually for bigger scales you don't balance

[vast jungle]

what kind of use you have in mind?

I am building a 4x4 balancer/mixer since yesterday... taking an uneven input from 4 train-stations and spreading it to 4 belts... but the only reason I am doing this is that the total number of items is way beyond the belt limit

[normal fog]

Oh no intended use yet, was more so curious if it were a thing. Is a manifold practically just overflow?

[wind spade]

yeah

[vast jungle]

a manifold is just a nested series of splitters... normally one line the splits of to the machines.

[wind spade]

manifold

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

[vast jungle]

as soon as the machines who get too much are full, they block and give the items to the rest of the manifold

[normal fog]

Yup already use those for my coal power 😂

[torpid robin]

Keep using it for everything then

[vast jungle]

just make sure if you want to use the "total overflow" for something else, install a smart splitter at the beginning of the manifold, not at the end.

manifolds only work if you allow the whole manifold to block

[normal fog]

I want to collect all the iron/copper/coal in the desert and just smelt everything in a central building and use a train to transit the ingots to a manufacturing plant. Going to assume that a manifold would be better in that scenario too until it comes to the steel ingots?

[vast jungle]

yes...

[unkempt grail]

steel ingots would work too, just one of your ore lines would have to be higher than the other

[vast jungle]

just be careful about the belt limit... I am just at the moment dealing with exactly this... a large facility producing iron, steel and copper ingots...

[normal fog]

You can increase the limit in the configs can’t you?

[vast jungle]

I don't think so... but there are some mods with faster belts

[normal fog]

I’m vanilla

[vast jungle]

still, faster belts than MK5 seem to be a challenge for the current engine

then MK4/5 is the limit... but you can deal with it, just keep it in mind (it makes EVERYTHING more complicated)

[normal fog]

Oh I thought you meant limit as in the cap of belts in the world not the item capacity limit on the belt

[vast jungle]

no, I mean the limit for each belt... dealing with this in a larger factory can be a pain...

imagine producing 2000 ingots per minute and having to deliver them to a train station... even if they fit on 3 belts you cannot easily do so if they come from 7 production lines...

[normal fog]

Where there is a will there is a way

[vast jungle]

yes... in my case it was 8 production lines and the products would have fit on 5 belts... but I chose just to extend all 8 belts to the train station, easier to do 😉

the input can also be fun... distributing 3 full belts to 4 manifolds of machines is a pain.

[wind spade]

transport them on 7 belts to 7 cargo platforms 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

do 3 manifolds and overflow each of them to 4th one

[vast jungle]

okay, maybe I oversimplified the example... 😉

[wind spade]

most of the setups if not all can be done simpler than having to balance

[vast jungle]

yes... in my case the additional problem was that I overlooked one place in the production which was over the belt limit... so I had to build around the existing machines to redistribute.

first time building something where input, output AND intermediate connections are way over the limit of a single belt

[torpid robin]

i mean a way you can do it. is plug each line into ISC connect them together then do a smart splitter overflow/merger on the ither side. then you can take out any amount you want. once the 1st belt is full it over flows to the next belt. put in any amoutn of belts in whatever way. and take out any amount anyway

[quick steeple]

I need a 5 even line and I got all the items on one line, can someone help me?

[vast jungle]

if your belt is not quite full you could use the "re-merge" trick... split into a larger number than necessary and merge all lines you don't need back before the splitter

if your belt IS full, you might need to split it in half and then do the same thing twice to prevent the overflow ruining the merging/splitting

[quick steeple]

ok

ty ig

[vast jungle]

the easiest idea might be to build the two splitter arrays (if you really need them) on top of each other... each of them only needs three splitters, so it might be a non-issue

[warm wren]

600 water translates into 500 turbofuel 🤔 It's been a long time since I played, but it's 500 / 4.5 for maximum number of fuel gens you can run off that?

[vast jungle]

I think so

225 oil + 400 coal + 400 sulfur + 600 water = 500 turbofuel = 111 generators?

just don't forget to add a good number of industrial fluid buffers for emergency restarts... just one valve (always open) to fill them up, a second valve (normally closed) to get fuel to your generators. Makes restarts very satisfying 🙂

[fathom root]

guys, as we speak im getting 680 concrete a minute, how should i split the limestone to make the concrete?

[dusky dust]

However you like

Is your current setup not sufficient somehow?

I'm on Team Manifold, personally, so I'd be doing something like ```
M M M M
| | | |
Input>--+---+---+---+

But it doesn't really matter much in the end

[fathom root]

oh

[vast jungle]

the only thing that matter is if you are using the normale Concrete Repice or "Wet Concrete" 😉

[fathom root]

what should i use in my concrete factory?

[dusky dust]

What in the world kicked off the E p i c reactions there, I wonder

Oh, maybe Recipe?

[vast jungle]

If you have Wet Concrete (and water available), you get twice as much Concrete from Limestone... but you need Refineries

[fathom root]

constructors or refineries

[dusky dust]

Hm.

[fathom root]

ok, ima do that then lmao

[sinful vale]

normale Concrete Repice

ok, it's one of those 3 words

[dusky dust]

"Recipe" has e p i c in it, but that word alone didn't seem to do it

[inland kelp]

by deduction normale

[dusky dust]

Oh, duh, the original was a misspelling

[sinful vale]

repice

[inland kelp]

or not

[fathom root]

im new with 100 hours so that whats up with the questions lol

[dusky dust]

Damn human brains, fixing misspellings automatically before you're even conscious of them

I shake my fist at you, grey matter!

[sinful vale]

interesting, so it reads epic even if it's only part of a word

[fathom root]

whos spamming icons?

[dusky dust]

Hopefully I'll never have to depict what the bot's doing with a graphic of some sort.

gotcha, bot.

[fathom root]

epic

ohh

[vast jungle]

the question is did you find the Harddisk with the alternative recipe?

[fathom root]

yeah i have nearly all of the recipies

almost

[dusky dust]

In many ways, #math-and-meta is the epicenter of eschewing math and meta conversations in lieu of figuring out bot triggers.

(I will desist now, I promise. Sorry. :)

[fathom root]

not turbo fuel i dont think

[dusky dust]

Back re: concrete, most folks don't really need the Wet Concrete one to provide all the concrete you'll need

[fathom root]

right, but i want all the concrete

[dusky dust]

So it's sort of up to you if the extra complications of setup are worth it. There's a lot of limestone on the map

[fathom root]

im using the ENTIR DESERT for concrete, only have 1 station with limestone so far

[dusky dust]

The limestone:concrete ratio is quite nice, though (and unlike a lot of the Pure recipes, you don't need a gigantic array of refineries to make good use of it)

[fathom root]

but i'll have like 5-6 stations full of limestone at all times

[sinful vale]

"cries in pure copper"

[frosty owl]

Bruhhhhhh. Pure copper is GOOD

I mean, any even fraction of 60/min is a good number, imo

[vast jungle]

Pure copper is best in total output... Copper Alloy is better "bang for bucks"

[frosty owl]

Oh boy, the alloys are fast to make

Though, coke steel never lost its appeal to me. That steel output is just insane

[vast jungle]

Yes... Copper Alloy only needs a Foundry and outputs 100/minute G

[frosty owl]

Me the first time seeing that recipe: So I need 2 foundries to max out my coolest belt? I'm in!
The regret for having to understand oil properly came later ahahah

[vast jungle]

yeah, OC'ed Copper Alloy is a belt killer... and VERY space efficient

[dusky dust]

Hah, yeah, that one is just wild. I still haven't finished my 98-refinery Pure Copper array; apparently this base build isn't gonna actually happen until U4 drops

[frosty owl]

Ah, sorry, I was still referring to the coke steel ahah

[dusky dust]

And then like another 70 for steamed sheets. QQ

[frosty owl]

#screenshots message

But the beltwork for the pure copper is the nicest one to make. Those even numbers

[dusky dust]

Heh, true

[vast jungle]

100 also works nice with OC/UC... very easy to read

[frosty owl]

"Mhhh, I wonder how many item/minute I'd get if I underclock to 69%, lemme just press N and... Oh wait.. That's convenient..."

[vast jungle]

if you like 60ish belt numbers more, just OC the foundry to 180 or 240%...

[frosty owl]

Eheheh, you know me too well. I'll sooo be doing that :D

[vast jungle]

3 Foundries will nearly fill one mk5 belt

now imagine doing the same with Refineries 😉

[abstract thorn]

is compact steel better or solid steel with pure iron?

[sinful vale]

solid, always

compact is ok, but solid is just better

[abstract thorn]

specifically once you can use pure iron, yes?

[sinful vale]

if you can combo it with pure iron, even better, yeah

[naive ingot]

The only time I've seen the Solid Steel recepie come up, it was in the same batch as Turbofuel, so alas, I stick with Compacted Steel for now.

[vast jungle]

Solid Steel Ingot with Pure Iron Ingot...

[naive ingot]

I just recently got the Copper Alloy alt and it's pretty amazing. I feel like Pure Copper is more ore efficient, but I'm 1000% sure even taking the energy from more ore per ingot into account, the alloy alt is more energy efficient than the Pure alt.

I hadn't really looked into the Alloys until now though, is the Iron Alloy recipe as good as the Copper Alloy one?

[vast jungle]

Copper Alloy is great... very compact, great output...
But Iron Alloy? Not sure, Copper is too rare compared to Iron.

if you have too much Copper compared to Iron you could use it... but I am not sure you will be ever in this situation... there is a LOT of Iron

[naive ingot]

True that!

In the span of 6 hard drives, I got Fused Quickwire, Copper Alloy, Steamed Copper Sheets, and Iron Wire... (Can't remember the other 2 right now.)

[vast jungle]

Fused Quickwire is nice if you don't have enough Caterium but enough Copper... and Steamed Copper Sheets is nice too

and Iron wire is also nice if you lack copper ^^

[naive ingot]

Honestly, even if you have enough of all those things, having the option to use resources to bolster other resources is very handy.

[vast jungle]

I think so too... I just finished a "iron/steel/copper ingot" factory... based on Pure Iron Ingot, Solid Steel Ingot and Copper Alloy

2160 Steel, 960 Copper and 770 Iron Ingots/Minute 😉

[naive ingot]

I already had a number of other alts that have reduced my factory dependencies to the point where the only Iron part I need is Plates and the only Steel part I need is Pipes.

[vast jungle]

Encased Industrial Pipes!

[naive ingot]

So it's less a matter of "I don't have enough copper" as it is "what do I do with all this extra Iron?"

[vast jungle]

nod

[naive ingot]

Encased Industrial Pipes and Encased Industrial Frames, such a sexy combo.

[vast jungle]

yes, they are...

[naive ingot]

Also Steeled Frame and Stitched Plates.

That four alt combo is pure magic.

[vast jungle]

the only bad thing is the Iron Plates...

unless you use "steel coated plates"

[naive ingot]

Sure, but it becomes the only Iron part you need.

[vast jungle]

still... stupid Iron 😉

(looking on the hundreds of Iron Ingots)

[naive ingot]

They sure are shiny though.

[vast jungle]

next thing I need to build is the Steel factory... everything from Iron Plate to Encased Industrial Beams...

[fathom root]

whats better casted or steel screws?

[vast jungle]

Steel Screws produce very fast... especially if you already produce Steel Beams

Casted Screws is good if you want to work from Iron Ingots anyways

Most Alts are good in some situations

[sand garnet]

Yes biocoal

[vast jungle]

LOL

Seismic Nobelisk?

[bleak coral]

it's faster and technically has more weighted resource efficiency if you have enough alts lol

if you wanna bother with this: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=JzCwFLMaOcPaLkCqLZS7

which you probably don't haha

[vast jungle]

Space, complexity and electrical power is also Resource... Also the weight between the ores depends a bit in what you have and what you need.

Producing crystal oscillators for nobelisk seems insane

[topaz hedge]

Hm, have enough crystal oscillators for 120 of those a min using that chain.. right now they're not being used for anything so I'm just sinking them

[frosty pawn]

just decrypted a hard drive and one of the options is crystal computer... it seems like a ripoff because at first its like "oh i can make it with an assembler instead of a manufacturer" but it requires 3 crystal oscillators which are made really slowly in manufacturer and the default computer recipe has much simpler ingredients. am i missing something?

[bleak coral]

Oh I agree it's a very silly recipe, I was just pointing out in a joking way that technically it isn't useless.

[topaz hedge]

@frosty pawn it's a computer without oil in a nutshell, provided you use silicone circuitboards.

[frosty pawn]

i have silicone circuitboards recipe but i also have plastic and rubber because i'm using the coke steel ingot recipe in the spot where i wanna also make computers

[digital sail]

can anyone remind me what the ratio for coal is?

water to coal to make power that is

[deft pike]

Coal Plants:Water Extractors = 8:3

Remember mk1 pipes only transfer 300m^3 of water per pipeline.

[eager nexus]

15 coal per min, 45 water per min

[digital sail]

nice thanks guys

[deft pike]

Good point. I'm so used to seeing the question asking about the ratio of plants to extractors that my mind completely skipped reading it literally and just translated to that.

[eager nexus]

no harm done, it's going to lead to that anyways haha

[stray moon]

this a good idea? or no

[zealous zephyr]

B R I G H T

[stray moon]

ignore the colour

but is it a good idea

[zealous zephyr]

I see nothing wrong
Good idea it is

[stray moon]

on each of those levels. theres gonna be 40 coal gens

so. my mind said it made sense

[eager nexus]

that's fine that's fine

good luck with the pipes!

[stray moon]

yea. its gonna be a pain. im gonna use the water tower exploit to lessen the need for pumps. but i was thinking. 2 pipes for 3 rows of coal gens. so i would only need 20 pipes going up and down the middle.

thing that is also gonna be a pain. is fitting the water extractors.

i also worked out. once i get all this up and running. ill be getting 12k power.

[topaz hedge]

10200mw useable power*

[stray moon]

why? 10k

[topaz hedge]

160x75 = 12000 - 60x30 = 10200. water extactors.

you'll still see 12k on a powerpole. either way, goodluck, let me see it when you're done (:

[stray moon]

sure thing :3

it wont be fully active till i reach miner mk3s

but it will be functional

[fierce ruin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4JY_JeodKw&ab_channel=DUST

[sand garnet]

@fierce ruin is this yours

Why post it here

[frosty owl]

Ah, Dust. Makes some good stuff...

[fierce ruin]

Yes

[sand garnet]

not sure why it's in #math-and-meta though

might be better suited for #off-topic-media

[meager aspen]

Is that by the coal deposits overlooking the rocky desert?

[balmy acorn]

I am thinking of using two pure quartz nodes to make Awesome Points. Is it better to mine it and put it in the sink or turn it into Silica or crystals first?

It seems to be me Silica is better over all

[cunning brook]

is it better to use turbo fuel or normal fuel for power

[unkempt grail]

turbo

[stray moon]

iots the 4 normal nodes in that water pit next to the grassy fields

[meager aspen]

Ok, I recommend running your water from the top of the waterfall rather than down there, that way you won’t also need to spend the power pumping water up the floors of the building.

[stray moon]

already doing the water tower.

[random warren]

how many copper sheets would you call "a lot" i'm just upgrading to 120/min when i found 30 wasn't enough for my electronics, which consumes 60/min

maybe i should double it. i dunno....

the source of copper i'm working with is 900 ingots/min

but it also has to produce copper wire and cable

[vernal copper]

1+1=5

damn, thats not right, someone help me out

[fierce ruin]

https://satisfactorytools.com
Find some balance that produces the materials you want

[mortal palm]

should i use trains to bring all the oil in the map to me or long but very long pipes?

[edgy vault]

Work with the oil where it's at, and bring any parts you need to it

[mortal palm]

so i must build seperate factories?

[edgy vault]

You do what you want to do, I'm just saying its magnitudes easier to deal with liquids where they are, rather than transport them by pipe, train or in packages

Plus, refinery setups quickly become massive

[mortal palm]

now i have a factory that produces 800 plastic and 400 rubber and petrolium

but i have like alternate recipies for fabric and like yeah turbo fuel

[edgy vault]

Do you have the diluted fuel package alt/ heavy oil residue alt?

[mortal palm]

these are the ones i have

[edgy vault]

For maximizing your crude use you will need those two, as well as recycled plastic and recycled rubber for maximizing plastics and rubber production

[mortal palm]

ive did that once that did not end well

it was a soup haha

[edgy vault]

Like I said, a full refinery setup becomes massive, with a lot of steps and overflow considerations needed

[mortal palm]

yeah im well aware of huge factories now i have like 60 refineries soo thats yeah kinda hell

but it was build well

[edgy vault]

Oooh. Spacious

[mortal palm]

thats what i mean lol XD

[edgy vault]

My current project in the blue oil crater in the southeast has...
5×15 crude to HOR, 5×20 HOR to diluted fuel, 5x8 poly to rubber, 4x20 rubber to plastic, 4x18 plastic to rubber and 5x 15 HOR to petro coke refineries

And 90x fuel to turbofuel as well

[fierce ruin]

careful with that

I almost ran out of room building there

[edgy vault]

It's a vertical build over the center of the water for the most part

[random warren]

you misunderstand my question. i don't KNOW how much i want. i've never played this before. it's my first run.

[torpid robin]

There is a loop online . It’s all over the show . It will turn 300 crude into 900 plastic/rubber.

[torpid robin]

What I need roughly is like 50k so I’d call that a lot lol

[random warren]

50k copper sheets? i shudder to think what that's making. no i have a full container of computers, and nothing consuming them besides building trains.

[torpid robin]

They are used a lot in end game alts

[random warren]

well i'm still trying to unlock tier 7

[torpid robin]

The way I advise to do it . Is go right I want 60pm . That’s just to build with . You set the line up . Then send it to your hub/storage . Then NEVER touch that line again

When you get to something later in that needs copper sheets. And say the line needs 120pm . You go and make that another line . Don’t touch your original line

That’s how I work for all my lines

Then to keep that 2at line always moving I just overflow to sink

[abstract thorn]

So I just got to trains for the first time, how can I judge potential throughput of my trains?

[wind spade]

Well if you don't know how much you need then it's hard to say what you need to build. Just figure out which buildings require the material and how much, then build production for some number that you think will be enough so that you can keep building. If it's not enough, you can always increase the build size.

[random warren]

take the sum of the belts in, and compare it to the belts out. that's the thruput of your trains.

[wind spade]

Not true

[random warren]

if it's not true, add more duplicate trains

[wind spade]

You also need to check for loop length, and substract the waiting time per train going in

[magic shadow]

throughput is (train capacity/round trip travel time) limited by belt speed at either end

[wind spade]

You can never get the same throughput as all of your belts

[torpid robin]

Greeny . You are clever . How many carts to get from one side of the map to the other and back . Would you need for a line of 780 ?

[summer field]

Yeah Greeny, you're cleaver. Do my taxes.

[wind spade]

Time of the loop?

[abstract thorn]

How can I determine the roundtrip time of a train?

besides riding it

[summer field]

Stop watch?

[wind spade]

How much time does it take for the train to do the full loop? @torpid robin

[wind spade]

Only timing it is reliable

[random warren]

right. the part where the train stops to load/unload halts the belts. often good to mitigate that problem with an ISC having 2 of the fastest belts you got

[torpid robin]

Idunno I havnt timed lol . I just watched it . But Idunno if there is a better way to do . The calculation just hurts my head for some reason

Sometime time how long it takes to go round the map lol

[torpid robin]

Yes .

[wind spade]

Depends on route it takes

[wind spade]

Sure but if you connect 2 full mk5s to one platform, then it won't help you

[random warren]

what does that mean? of course it helps

[torpid robin]

No cause then when it stops . It needs spare space to clear the isc

Like spare space on the belts

[wind spade]

If you connect 2x780 belts to one platform, you won't get 2x780 on the other side no matter what

[torpid robin]

If you have 2 that are full . It will just start to fill the isc

[abstract thorn]

isc?

[random warren]

if your storage container is full, then your train capacity is not the issue, now isn't it?

[wind spade]

Industrial storage container

[torpid robin]

I don’t think you are understanding

Greeny can explain I gotta go back to work lol

[wind spade]

That's just to prove your statement wrong. You said your train throughput is equal to belt speed

[random warren]

and someone already corrected me to say that the loading time is subtracted from the... uhhhh flowing time

[torpid robin]

Huh ? Lol

Pretty much you lose 50 secs of throughput if not set up properly

So you use isc Infrint of and after

[random warren]

thruput = speed x time

[wind spade]

Only 25

[torpid robin]

You have it at both ends ?

Cause it has the upload time

Unload

Or does it not really add it together ?

[wind spade]

But the input is limited only with 25 and then the already limited amount of items is unloaded

[torpid robin]

I found I still needed to have an isc at the other end too . Cause it wouldn’t unload by the time the train came back

But I do get what you are saying

[abstract thorn]

I'm reading all of this and I'm honestly pretty confused

[wind spade]

You need isc on other side but in total it's limited only by 25

Because the unload doesn't limit your throughput further

[torpid robin]

Ye Ye I get that .

Tbh I feel they just need their own buffer

To account for that

[random warren]

right, the buffer makes it better, not perfect

[torpid robin]

Well no . It corrects it completely

But it’s a lot of work you gotta do to set it up when I buffer in the freight platform would solve that

[wind spade]

Unless your desired througput is max belts

[torpid robin]

It in saying that . I’m not sure a 109 buffer is huge bigger

[wind spade]

Then it won't help you

[torpid robin]

Big enough *

How do you mean it won’t help ?

[abstract thorn]

@wind spade are you sayign that you can get your desired htroughput as long as you bring in enough resources as long as that desired throughput is not having full belts?

[torpid robin]

If a belt can keep moving due to an internal buffer when it loads or unloads . Even at max it will solve it

[wind spade]

If you have 2x780 full belt coming into 1 platform, a buffer won't help you

[torpid robin]

Why not ?

[random warren]

the point is, because of the load/unload time, it cannot be full belt thruput

[torpid robin]

It’s the same thing as an isc on before it

[wind spade]

Because the platform is blocked for 25 seconds

[random warren]

it will be slightly less. just.... get over it

[torpid robin]

No no. I’m saying to solve that . Have a buffer that can keep accepting even when it loads and unloads

Maybe should of clarified that a bit better

Like instead of us putting one on ourselves

[wind spade]

Ah, yeah, but why have the block there then?

[random warren]

an infinitely sized buffer will eventully fill up and cause the thruput to slow down

[torpid robin]

Well that’s it lol . I mean it makes sense to a point . Cause there is no container to load into cause it’s getting lifted up lol

[wind spade]

No, you can even have max blets througput if you split it to multiple platforms

[random warren]

if it's split to multiple platforms, it's not max belt speed. it's half belt speed.

[torpid robin]

Yea like I have 780 lines split between 3 platforms

[abstract thorn]

not if you merge it back together

[torpid robin]

But it comes to it as 1 full . And on the other end you merge those 3 same ones again . So it’s a full belt

[random warren]

what are you guys talking about? 3 platforms have a belt speed of 6x7880

[abstract thorn]

if you split those 3 platforms into 6 platforms and then merge them back into 6 belts on the other side

[torpid robin]

You can’t have 2 max belts going into a platform though

[random warren]

6 platforms would have a possible thruput of double

[torpid robin]

I work on only 1 belt per platform

If it fills up I split it into 2

[abstract thorn]

You're not paying attention to what we are saying

[wind spade]

If you want to have througput of 2x780 belts, then you can't achieve it with single platform, but you can split the belts to multiple platforms to achieve 2x780 througput of the train line

Nobody cares about platform throughput, we talk about train line throughput

[abstract thorn]

what's the speed degredation like with multiple cars?

[torpid robin]

None . Add more loco lol

[wind spade]

1:4 seems to be ok for most tracks.

[torpid robin]

But this

[abstract thorn]

gotcha

cool cool cool

[torpid robin]

I think I do 1:5 but my track is flat

[abstract thorn]

hmmmm

[wind spade]

For flait iirc even 1:20 is possible

But maybe was changed, idk

[abstract thorn]

so should I do 1:4:1

[torpid robin]

I believe it’s still the case

[abstract thorn]

on a bi-drectional track

[torpid robin]

Yes

[abstract thorn]

Cool

[tall jacinth]

hi guys, are there any vanilla smart splitters/mergers/and storage at all?

[torpid robin]

There is smart splitters

No smart mergers or container

[tall jacinth]

Thanks :D I have yet to get to the ratio stage, I just keep trying to make new materials, just completing milestone 4 I think it is (logi 3, hypertibes etc) then power went down. So had to resolve that 🤣🤣

[dull bolt]

<@&387163995947270144> this for sure does not belong here, also tried to ping everyone.

[frosty pawn]

Smart Splitter is from Caterium research in M.A.M

[split hearth]

hi guys, will this setup give me 3:5 ratio?

[cosmic pivot]

Looks like it will

[split hearth]

thanks 😅

[torpid robin]

why are you trying to split so precisely. pipes kinda just do their thign. as long as the input and outputs are right. itl normally work as it should

[crimson bloom]

hey im relatively new to the game can i get some suggestions on my two factories (the second is W.I.P) or someone help learn the ropes

[glacial hemlock]

#screenshots

@torpid robin i tried 1:100 and it is freaking fun

[torpid robin]

wait. whast this for?

[glacial hemlock]

1 locomotive, 100 wagon

[torpid robin]

oh. right lol. works fine on the flats i assume?

[glacial hemlock]

Yeah, absolutely flat

[torpid robin]

ok thats nice to know. i may be a bit over kill on soem of mine then

[vast jungle]

minimal setup for "packaged liquid" transport by train without wasting containers:

2 train freight platforms on each end (one for packaged liquid, one for empty containers)
1 industrial storage container on each end

N packagers/unpackagers on each end

max throughput: 2* 750/min (minus 25 second delay)

similar setup for liquid trains:
2 train freight stations on each end (both loading/unloading)
4 industrial fluid buffers on each end
max throughput: 4* 600 m^3/min (minus 25 second delay)

which means... transport by packaging should need more space AND more energy AND has less throughput than doing it by fluid car, right?

[torpid robin]

you wont have the 25sec delay. cause you have the buffers

[vast jungle]

if you are at "double-pipe" or "double-belt" limit, the buffers don't help

the just smooth things a bit over

[night narwhal]

Yeah, buffers only work if you're using less then the max output of the station.

[torpid robin]

thats why you sho uld never double pipe or belt into a platform

or if you do . stay well blow max

easier to just never do

[vast jungle]

you could argue that with the buffer you can go "1.5 belts/pipes per station"

[night narwhal]

I mean, you could go to 1.9

[torpid robin]

yea you could

doesnt matter what you go. as long as you can get the extra in once things are moving again

[night narwhal]

Yeah

2 in less then 2 out.

[vast jungle]

staying at one belt/one pipe is the easiest option not to mess up

[torpid robin]

this exactly

why over complicate?

[night narwhal]

I do 1 belt to industrial storage, 2 belts to station from storage. Then the other way around for unloading.

[vast jungle]

still... I am quite puzzled that everyone (including me) thought that fluid-cars were bad ^^

@night narwhal me too

[torpid robin]

i have never thought so much as bad.

all i thought was its simpler to make it then send it

[night narwhal]

I think people just look at the raw numbers sometimes.

And just conclude off of that.

[vast jungle]

and forget about the containers to get back

[torpid robin]

like i dont bother with packaging . i will do every bit of water/oil processing on the water

i dont see whyh people do these big fancy packaging systems and send shit all over the show. so much extra work with belts or pipes

[night narwhal]

Yeah.

Also, I know resource is unlimited. But the idea of just throwing them away seems pointless.

Even in my diluted fuel loops i have the perfect number of canisters such that I don't need to add more or remove them.

[torpid robin]

or trains

[torpid robin]

exactly.

like i just have small loops.

i fill them at the start . and never look at it again

[vast jungle]

I still want to do "split fuel dilution" system one day

might help if your oil is not near water...

[night narwhal]

Yes! 1 packager to 1 refinery to 1 unpackager then loop back to the start.

[torpid robin]

so simple isnt it lolk

[vast jungle]

and no manifold

[night narwhal]

Yep, no manifold.

I have about 22 canisters in each loop

[torpid robin]

preach it sistas

is that all?

[night narwhal]

Yeah

[torpid robin]

whoopsio have 500

[night narwhal]

I have enough that there is always 1 in each machine.

With a little redundancy

[torpid robin]

i have a habit of overkill 😂

[night narwhal]

Its more pleasing to me to see the empty space and things rushing around then have it packed up.

[torpid robin]

i like to have all machine buffers full. so when power goes out. i have aslot of stuff already made. so im not far from say getting things running again

[vast jungle]

what do you think about this:

on oil-well side have groups of two Refineries... one that created HOR, the other one that dillutes the fuel

then a train sends the packaged fuel to the water side.

there it is unpacked, then the containers are repacked with water

and sent with the same train (waiting in a second train station) back to the oil-well side

no additional buildings necessary (except for the train stations)

except for lots of splitters/mergers... unless you want to build one train-freight terminal for each dilution loop 😉

[night narwhal]

I wouldn't bother with the train. Adds unnecessary complexity

[vast jungle]

think about a case where there is no water near your oil

still, transporting the raw oil to the water might be easier

[night narwhal]

That's why I use 22 and not like 18. So there are always a couple in the last unpackager.

[torpid robin]

yes

[vast jungle]

in fluid cars

[torpid robin]

transport what you haev less of

[night narwhal]

Yeah, chances are your going to need less oil

[torpid robin]

you will need more water than oil

any way im off to bed. cya guys

[vast jungle]

cy

yeah... 300 oil = 400 HOR...

[night narwhal]

Yeah I gotta grab lunch then get back to work. So I shall see you around.

[vast jungle]

(and 400 HOR need 800 water)

[umbral scarab]

Does anybody have the image of the ideal HOR ratios?

There was one floating around a while back & I misplaced it. Been a while since I last played this & I'd appreciate the guidance!

[vast jungle]

ideal HOR ratios for what?

[umbral scarab]

One Oil Pump to refineries, to diluted packaged fuel, back to plastic / rubber

[vast jungle]

1 to 3

1 oil into 3 rubber/plastic

[sand garnet]

<@&387163995947270144>

[outer tangle]

Hey guys does this turbofuel loop look good or have i missed a alt? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=pI5Ro6CbkzVXP28b6PVv

[oblique hollow]

Well

Theres also the HOR alt

[outer tangle]

uhh i got 6 of those alts which you talking about mate?

I will add that in

WOAH

Thats so efficient

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=0SFygRfe3nO0w1Lb1TlI

what to do with the polymer resin which pops out?

[sand garnet]

make plastic out of it, sink it, get creative

[outer tangle]

I'm just amazed at how efficient that is

that recipe is down from 300 crude oil/min scratch that i remember i made it less last night

well 100 units of turbofuel a min then which i use a storage container as a buffer. Which should also help when i plan to upgrade in the future

[violet trout]

Hey what is the best way to deal with stuff that takes 45/min and you produce 240/min (smelting caterium in my case) Because it would be 5 smelters at 100% plus on at 33.3% which does not exactly do 15/min. Tips?

[outer tangle]

give link to your production

unless you done it by hand

[violet trout]

by hand

it's just my brain can't process 240/min caterium ore to 45/min smelters

[outer tangle]

Ohhh isee

what type of Coveyors you got?

[violet trout]

mk3

[outer tangle]

Good

So is it 1 ore deposit?

[violet trout]

yas

[outer tangle]

Ok so you take 1 belt and put 2 splitters on mid section. First splitter will then go to 3 other splitters then connect those to the constructors.

Do the same again for the second splitter. On the very end splitter or last one you could say is have that constructor set to 33%

[violet trout]

Ok

https://i.redd.it/tx9gt3whtfm31.png
Is it one of these?

[outer tangle]

So 2 splitters go to 3 each the very last one on the line will get less priority due to how splitters work in this game. Umm i cannot see which one it is in that graph but dw i will make a quick thing in game for you.

[violet trout]

Yay or on draw.io

[oblique hollow]

Why make a balancer

Also, 240 can be split o to 5,333 smelters

[oblique hollow]

That 0,333 means you need a smelter at 33% clockspeed

[outer tangle]

Yea releiased mid making that you don't need a 5th splitter you just set 1 constructor to 33%

[oblique hollow]

You dont even need that

Just use a bunch of splitters. Once the machine's storage is full, the overflow leaves through the splitters side

[outer tangle]

Yea that works also. Depends if they want exact %

[violet trout]

Yay was thinking about overflow but i thought the fact it's 33% would make it stop sometimes

[outer tangle]

So you got 2 options now @violet trout 🙂

[violet trout]

but if I do overflow would it be better to put it at the end or the start of the "chain"?

[oblique hollow]

nah, all fine, just set one to 34% and its pretty much flawless

or set it to 33 and use an overflow splitter on one end

[violet trout]

yay idk

[outer tangle]

If your system jams up it would be better for overflow at the start. Because if your first splitter jams it will stop ores getting to the second splitter.

Wait im thinking of smart splitters am i

Yea either or then

[oblique hollow]

0,3333 of 45 is exactly 15

so there wouldnt even be overflow

[outer tangle]

Yep if you set up that system perfectly to the % on that 33% no need for overflow unless your outbound storage overfills.

but then you just have a overflow on whatever your constructing

[oblique hollow]

ideally there wouldnt ever be backup

[outer tangle]

Umm what? Wrong channel or what?

<@&387163995947270144>

ty 🙂

[heavy axle]

Bolted Iron vs normal Reinforced iron recipe

I'm feeling like Bolted is better?

[dusky dust]

<offtopic> Gah, I go by "CJ" in real life and every single time you post something I have this weird existential crisis. </offtopic>

[heavy axle]

Do I post that often

lol

[dusky dust]

Hah, not often (and maybe there's been other folks whose nicks are "CJ," too. :D

[heavy axle]

While I've got ya here though

Opinions on the alt vs normal recipe there?

[dusky dust]

I'd have to look 'em up; I've actually not played for awhile and I tend to forget which alts are which (except for a few of the more notable ones)

:)

[bleak coral]

Bolted is faster so you can use less machines, but normal uses less iron

So bolted for space/energy efficiency, and normal for resource efficiency

Eventually you'll get stitched iron plate and iron wire which is an even more resource efficient combination.

[ember lintel]

I love those calculator sites: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=n64M72Ca78BC3VPY08kD

Never thought heavy flexible frame would ever be useful but this looks nice

[sand garnet]

heavy encased frame is much better though, IMO

[ember lintel]

Yeah, above production line uses both

I don't have solid steel ingot but I do have coke steel ingot

[sand garnet]

wait.. why?

why mix both

[ember lintel]

Because of the alt recipes available 😉

[sand garnet]

added complexity though lol

but have fun!

[mortal palm]

how mutch turbo fuel do i neet to produce to power 50 gens?

need

[sand garnet]

50 x 4.5

[strange laurel]

Anyone know of a good guide/calc for maximising the power generated of a Single Pure Oil Node at 250%? e.g 600m3...

Most of the tools word backwards from the # of a type of item you want, But id like it to calc forward fro the root resource I have. Making use of alternate recipies

[dense mica]

the wiki has a good explanation of how much you can generate using 300m3 of oil

so double it if you want 600

it's what i did.

[strange laurel]

It doesnt do a good job of explaining that out using alternate recipes like Heavy Oil Residue and Diluted Packaged Fuel for example

[torpid robin]

Satisfactory tools is the best one

If you can’t follow that . Well you are kinda on your own

[nimble hinge]

Go to https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production
Go to the tab "items,Inputs"
Press "set to 0"
Enter oil (and other relevant) amount available.
Switch to recipes.
Check any relevant alternate recipes you have unlocked.
Hit the "production" tab.
Choose fuel, Turbofuel, or diluted packaged fuel.
Change the drop down to maximize

[torpid robin]

Make you you disable any standard recipes you need

But come to think of it . They are all alts so it shouldn’t matter lol

[strange laurel]

Okay so looking at that...600m3 Oil and ~1k each of coal and sulfur should net around 39.6k MW of power 🤔

Its not quite perfect because it doesnt speak to how the canisters are made so I will have to math that seperately

[exotic swallow]

normal recipe is plastic made in a constructor, but there are some alts as well

i just throw in a couple of stacks of canisters into a packager and recycle them

[frosty pawn]

I've rearranged the nodes in the diagram a little, so hopefully it's easier to read. Let's split this into 2 factories. First make all the fuel, then add compacted coal to make turbofuel. I'm going to explain the fuel part because the turbofuel part is really simple if you've played the game enough to unlock it.
You can simplify the layout by making all the fuel in just 2 rows of refineries, with some packagers in front and behind the main row:
First, 20 refineries in a row taking the crude oil to make heavy oil residue. bear in min this converts 600 liquid into 800 liquid so you will need at least 2 pipes to carry the heavy oil residue.
Then 27 refineries in row, each one with a packager in front and a packager in the back.
For the back row of packagers (packaged water) split the water supply from 1 water extractor to 2 packagers. You can underclock the final water extractor because it will only need to supply 1 packager.
The canisters get reused, so what i would do is use a lift to send empty canisters from the fuel unpacker in the front row to the water packer in the back row underneath the diluted fuel refinery. You will have a lot of belts but they can all be mk1. Before you turn the power on, put one full stack of empty canisters in each packager in the back row, then again for each in the front row. You will need 27 stacks of plastic to make the canisters because 1 plastic = 2 canisters and you have 27 pack-dilute-unpack loops.

[exotic swallow]

lol as above long winded explanation 🙂

[frosty pawn]

TLDR: send empty canisters back to water packager to make a loop that goes under each refinery

i did that for my recycled plastic + recycled rubber build #screenshots message (with water extractors right behind each pair of packagers) extra water used to turn polymer into rubber

[strange laurel]

Thanks for that!

[frosty pawn]

also if you look at my screenshot there is a big fuel tank at the end of the plastic/rubber production and i used a small bit of vertical pipe - the lower part of the pipe has to fill up before any extra fuel can climb up to the buffer. think of it like gravity-assisted overflow system

one more thing that might help; when you need to use both the pipe connection and the conveyor connection on refineries to make 2 manifolds in the same space, build walls and build pipe junction ON the walls. they snap like mergers/splitters so you can line them up nicely before putting the pipes in

it can help with packagers too

[strange laurel]

OMG I had no idea you could snap them like that!!

We spent ages (in previous builds) trying to line up those Junctions

TBH I didnt know you could snap mergers/splitters to walls wither

[frosty pawn]

mergers dont snap to walls, but junctions do

i like to build refineries up against a wall, put junctions on the wall, then delete the wall. alternatively, build 2m high foundations in front of the refineries, put junction on top a few spaces away from the refinery, then delete those foundations and connect the junctions with "vertical build mode" pipes, then you can put mergers/splitters on the same level as the refineries under the pipes

i always use the wall method for coal generators so pipes go under them and conveyors are shorter, but its a bit more finicky

recycled canisters

using this method with mk1 belts means you dont have to figure out necessary throughput for a canister manifold

200 canisters for a single loop of packager -> refinery -> packager is plenty

[strange laurel]

I do love the under-fed style

[cursive heron]

if the calculated underlock for a machine is 0.333333~, do you set it to 0.33 or 0.34. Will it eventually over/underflow?

[dull sable]

Id set it for 34

[frosty owl]

Yep. I'd go for 0.33 and manage the overflow you'll eventually get

If you feel like trying out some fancy designs, how about challenging yourself with the Henning-style Heavy Fuel design, @strange laurel ? 😏

(Packaged water is manifolded and then fed to the refineries through gaps between arrays of them)

[strange laurel]

Okay. Colour me interested

[cursive heron]

that looks pretty lit

[frosty owl]

I don't think there's much that need explanation, you can probably figure out how it works ^^

[cursive heron]

always felt something was off when you have rows of refineries then smol packagers inbetween

[strange laurel]

Yea I plan do do some layout testing tonight

[frosty owl]

RIGHT?! When I saw this the first time, I knew I had to adopt it

[frosty pawn]

i like my layout because no pumps

[frosty owl]

This doesn't need any either, if you build on level with the source of oil and water

[cursive heron]

or build a tower

[torpid robin]

I do mine like that

[frosty pawn]

heavy oil residue is a manifold pipe, canister belts pass under refineries. i like the simplicity

[torpid robin]

It’s so simple .

[frosty owl]

For reference, the external wall in the final version (not mirrored like the previous pic, just 1 row) looks like this. The tips t3hpwnz0r gave on pipes and junctions placing help a ton in these scenarios
(In picture, water for packagers, lifts for empty canisters)

[torpid robin]

No need for stupid manifold systems with packages

[frosty pawn]

yeah

no need for storage container full of empty canisters, no need for mk5 belts, no need for headaches

[torpid robin]

I few people get faaaaar to complicated with packaging

[frosty owl]

Only bad side about not having a manifold for the canisters or pack. water is that you need to manually fill the packagers...

[strange laurel]

I see you are running valves. Is that needed for ideal flow control?

[frosty owl]

Manifold or balancer. Either is fine, ofc :)

[torpid robin]

Hahaha yea that can be a a pain . But still simpler than other options

[frosty owl]

No, I'm just a bit fixated with balancing

[frosty pawn]

manually filling the packers takes time, but the amount of time saved by not building all the foundations and walls balances out

not to mention the manifolds

[frosty owl]

They do make it easier to check the flow though

[torpid robin]

It took me maybe 10 mins to fill 70 groups

I think that’s well worth

[frosty pawn]

i made all the canisters by hand too for 14 refineries, 200 each

[frosty owl]

Heh, I manifolded only the packaged water. Works as a way to check if production is up to par (belt is full) and I can just hook up an ISC to boot the system :P

[strange laurel]

ISC? Sorry I’m still only ~50hours into the game. Havent mastered all the acronyms yet

[frosty owl]

Exept I ended up not having space for an ISC... 😂
Errors have been made

[frosty owl]

The big storage

[strange laurel]

Aah

[frosty pawn]

extractor for each pair of packagers means i never have to worry about water. if theres too much they stop. i just look at the fuel pipes to see if theyre full and not moving. im gonna have to figure out how to make use of the surplus fuel from plastic/rubber production

for now it's just going into an elevated overflow buffer

[frosty owl]

You just make MORE plastic and rubber, obviously, right?

[frosty pawn]

plastic and rubber is recirculated using the recycled alt recipes, only the overflow from that loop is allowed to escape

they both go into ISC for now, but it's full so everything is full

water, fuel, HOR, plastic, rubber... all full and paused

[frosty owl]

Why not just overhaul the plastic/rubber system so it consumes all the fuel and sink said plastic/rubber with a splitter before the storages?

[frosty pawn]

i will sink the excess eventually but i wanna put a train station there after i use the other 3 oil nodes in that area

so far only using 1 normal node in the gold coast

gonna use a pure node for a big power station, the others will be plastic/fuel/coke when i decide what i need

[frosty owl]

I'm so mad the 40 refineries floor I made only serves a single freight station...
Pure recipes require so much space/time/effort...

[frosty pawn]

they will all share fuel and HOR lines by overflow

yeah i didnt even unlock pure copper because i dont want it

copper alloy is more fun

[frosty owl]

52 refineries for a pure node...

[frosty pawn]

😂 😢

this is what i have now. there is extra water that i wanted to use for something else later but forgot what it was and there is a little packaged fuel setup on the left for my jetpack that i will probably dismantle later

also i have one extra recycled rubber refinery because using the materials to build it saved me 2 inventory slots lol. i should probably remove it

[frosty owl]

Apparently, we don't really need machines to press and bend metal...

[frosty pawn]

wow gravity is pretty strong on MASSAGE-2(A-B)b

[candid ether]

this isnt a bug. this is a feature.

[sand garnet]

Damn boy, she thicc.

[fallow kiln]

hey guys, if i want three coal generators per water extractor, what do I need to underclock my coal generators to?

[sand garnet]

Just build more, underclocking is cumbersome

[sick ivy]

88-89% (88.88%)

[fallow kiln]

thanks very much

[west spindle]

Hi guys, I'm a noob and I have a question. It says on the wiki that Coal Generators (https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Coal_Generator) take 15 coal ore per minute. If I use a mark 1 miner at 100%, I can pull 120 ore per minute. I would have to split that ore equally 8 ways in order to even distribute all ore to the miners. See the picture to how I split it. The problem is, it seems that this setup is still backing up. I have ore that is on the conveyor now not moving, and the generators are filled. Any ideas what I am doing wrong? Thank you!

[cursive heron]

Generators scale usage depending on how much energy you're actually using, if you're not using 100% of your energy it won't consume 100% of your resource

[magic shadow]

you did perfect
generators just scale their intake based on power consumption

[west spindle]

Oh, I see! Thank you very much for that guys!

[frosty owl]

That's a good looking balancer! 👍

[west spindle]

Thank you very much @frosty owl! I didn't know thats what it was called!

[wind spade]

yeah, it's called a balancer, as opposed to a manifold setup, which looks like this:

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

[night jay]

I appreciate you actually making it look good. And yeah, you need to use 100% of the generators for the lines to not backup. It also could be an issue of not supplying enough water, but I don't know what that looks like so I'm assuming it also just as pleasing to look at.

[west spindle]

Thank you. The water setup is similar, one water extractor (at 75%) for two coal generators.

I guess the best thing to do is to put the "unused" coal ore into another project? But I wouldn't want to starve the coal generators if the power requirements become too great.

[wind spade]

best is to have power separate from other production

you don't really lose anything, as resources are infinite

[frosty owl]

One's self esteem is not infinite though

[night jay]

Honestly, leave the coal for right now. Eventually you will get to that 100% usage, and that's when it'll start moving again. It's ok to leave it backed up right now, because it's power.

[night jay]

too true

[west spindle]

I suppose, so I should just get my coal from another place then! Thanks for the advice guys!

[wind spade]

yeah it's better that way

[night jay]

Always a good idea to keep power and production separate. never know when one will ruin the other 👍

[wind spade]

because when you start using more power, you'll get less coal for your other production, eventually going to almost complete halt

so if you want a reliable source of coal, it's always better not to rely on overflows from power

[night jay]

If you really want a use for it, you could run an overflow line into a sink. Then at least you are generating some points.

[wind spade]

you can sink the overflow tho

damn stop typing faster

[frosty owl]

Stop being lazy with your keyboard just because you're not doing hardcore programming LMAO

[night jay]

I don't even program, I just type insanely fast lol.

[wind spade]

I need to get faster keyboard then

[west spindle]

That's a good idea! So then eventually there will be a power cut, so I just remove the sink and then it will be ok?

[night jay]

Although it's almost guaranteed I'll spell something wrong.

[frosty owl]

Btw, did they say sinking for fluids was gonna be a thing?

[night jay]

Doesn't really affect it. I'm on Mac's really garbage new keyboard they created.

[night jay]

no way, wut?

[wind spade]

t'was a joke 🙂

[frosty owl]

You try my keyboard (getting damn HARD to press due to age) and tell me again when you switch back

[night jay]

t'was me not getting the joke 👍

However, when I'm on my brown mechanical switches, it launches my typing into hyper speed.

[frosty owl]

Mech for life <3

[night jay]

Used to run razer's mecha-membrane keyboard, which surprisngly worked well.

[frosty pawn]

I have SteelSeries Apex Pro. Setting different sensitivity to the bottom row of keys and spacebar is amazing 😄

[near imp]

Just finished my first factory plan that produces 7.5 computers per minute and 600 mW as a biproduct

[wind spade]

I hope it's just typo and it's MW, not mW

[fierce ruin]

It's a bit pixalated

[wind spade]

you have to open original image

[near imp]

wait no if ur gonna use it dont turn it into fuel

turn the residue to coke and shove it in the sink

i realized now

[wind spade]

or use diluted packaged fuel recipe rather than normal recipe 🙂

[naive ingot]

Or make a recycled rubber/plastic loop and don't have any byproduct at all...

[cursive heron]

You technically still get some byproduct from generating the fuel you generate input in the rec. plastic/rubber loop

[wind spade]

you don't if you make all fuel into plastic/rubber

[glass flicker]

@near imp what are all the percentages? the under/overclock?

[wind spade]

yeah

[glass flicker]

I think I would probably create all the Copper Ingots at the same junction