#math-and-meta

1 messages Β· Page 491 of 1

wheat saddle
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Ok brbafk again

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Shower time

sinful vale
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if you are making base recipe, they use 45 per min for 45 ingots

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probably

frosty owl
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Check the foundries, left side of the panel, items required per minute
The standard recipe uses 45, I'm assuming you're using that

sinful vale
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ok, so then definitely

wheat saddle
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I'm making steel which is three coal and three iron a minute per ingot

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I don't know my coal though so

sinful vale
wheat saddle
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BRB AFK shower time

frosty owl
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There is some confusion...
The standard recipe for steel is 3-3 to 3 (iron-coal to steel)
The speed at which the resources are consumed is displayed by the machine if you interact with it, at the left side of the panel

sinful vale
frosty owl
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Yeah, you should be able to fit 2 const and 1 ass in that

sinful vale
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so you made a 4x6, and are asking how to work with a 4x5?

vast maple
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yeah

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i want a space so i can cable/belt manage

frosty owl
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Have a floor below for that

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1 wall high can be enough. Half if you don't care about walking easily in it

sinful vale
vast maple
frosty owl
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For the challenge you can't have lifts going along the outer side of the building?

vast maple
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no

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for what i build i just encase in glass

sinful vale
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but there should be a foundation of space between the platform and the glass, right?

vast maple
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yes for a walkway

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but thats just for the first lair

sinful vale
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a walkway should take half of the space, so i think there is enough space to work with lifts

vast maple
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hold on

sinful vale
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that should make this easier

vast maple
frosty owl
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Seems like you have space for many possibilities then

vast maple
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yes!

cedar mica
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You can fit 9 lifts in 1x1, so thats one way to reduce size

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Granted, you still need to leave belt room

vast maple
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also if any of you want to join and look for yourselves your welcome to it

wheat saddle
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So should I just have 72 foundries?

hot ginkgo
vast maple
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how do i use it

wheat saddle
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Bando I'm not allotted time on PC after 630pm on a weekday exclude Friday

peak basalt
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Using the calculator would be the quickest way to find out how many machines you need.

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But what are you trying to make? Standard recipes? And how many resources do you have?

wheat saddle
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Standard as start for factory I may use Alt for later recipes like past like the double input machines

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And rn trying make steel ingots at foundry

peak basalt
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And you have what for iron and coal? 720/min of both?

wheat saddle
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Iron at 720 idk my coal rate as of yet

peak basalt
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That only works with 720 iron and 720 coal per min though.

wheat saddle
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Imma check tommorow, I have to work the next day for school

marsh gate
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So I'm still on the fence about how many Modular Frames I truly need to make. Like, do I need to make 10/minute? Do you need Modular Frames for a lot of things to say it's worth needing that many?
Please note this is my first time playing, and with me I only make what I really need instead of make because it exists.

daring mesa
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Not really

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I make 0.3/minute of the heavy ones

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then again been a while since I checked how many normal ones I made...

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fudge your talking about normal ones? Your gonna need more than 10/minute. Sorry.

marsh gate
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So 10/min is the 'bare minimum'?

daring mesa
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Yeah

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Its used in a lot of recipes

marsh gate
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And what about steel? Because I haven't started with that either yet.

daring mesa
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Ah

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Yeah your gonna need a decent amount

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in mid game recipes steel is about as common as iron is early game.

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Almost all the recipes use either steel or something made from it midgame

marsh gate
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Alright.

daring mesa
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at least it feels like that sometimes

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Either way, encased beams are how you make conveyor mk 4s and those are steel beams + concrete

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So for faster conveyors youll need a lot as well

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heavy modular frames consume a decent bit too

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since 2 of the ingredients for them require steel

marsh gate
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Alright, thank you.

daring mesa
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np

frosty owl
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@fallow vector I'll try seeing if I can explain as well as you do πŸ˜…
Like everyone wanting to maximize turbomotors, I first calculated how much of each resources and what number of machines I needed to turn the 7788 bauxite of the map into TMs. Then I realized I should leave some sheets for personal use so I reduced the heat sink assemblers by 1, leaving a 34.5 sheets/min for storage.
In the end that meant having in the chain (from allu solution refineries to turbomotors manifacturers) 111.25 ref, 98.88ref, 61.8 foundries, 82.4 assemblers, 65 assemblers (even number since I deleted the uneven one to take out the 34 sheets), 68.22 manifacturers and the final 54.57 manifacturers for TMs.
But when thinking about how to place them I wanted to spice things up. In the end I grouped the machines in arrays that allowed me to feed them easily. I decided for the solution refineries to be in buildings containing arrays of 6x4 (100 water each, noice, 480 solution output each 6).
But then came the realization... All the other machines (excluding the TM manif) actually number less then the refineries I need... so why not fit them IN FRONT of them since the refs are the biggest anyway?
Thus I came to make arrays of 5 allu scraps refs (450 solution, so 30 OF [OverFlow] for each pipe). Those feed 3 allu foundries exactly leaving only 30 OF per array. Lo and behold, the ingots are just enough for 4 assemblers, great! Then... would you look at that, if I clock the heat sink's assemblers to 80% they go 1:1 with the previous line... No brainer there. Finally the manifacturers... which in groups of 3 each at 112% take ALL the heat sink with no extra. Great!
Once decided with the 5:3:4:4:3 design, I made it 3x and stacked it into 6 buildings. All that is left is to feed the OF to a smaller array taking care of it and finally load everything into the manifacturers for TMs! Of course everything is perfectly balanced (everything not produced comes through trains)

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Sorry for the textwall, enthusiasm got the best of me πŸ˜…

sinful vale
frosty owl
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No manifolds there, btw :P
I mean, there are some sort of manifolds, but they are balanced

frosty owl
sinful vale
frosty owl
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Nah, I'm actually being productive. Sleeptime is precious, so I can't waste it all on Disc just cause I'm... too powerful to sleep

fallow vector
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@frosty owl p.s. this is one of the channels I keep muted, so I didn't see your message right away.

frosty owl
peak basalt
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No, you have to suppress those

fallow vector
glacial hemlock
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@frosty owl 7788 instead of 7800? Shame on you lol

frosty owl
glacial hemlock
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You can put in additional extractors too

frosty owl
glacial hemlock
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You say extractors all run at 100% and have to sacrifice 12 bauxite, so just put one more extractor and make it 7800

frosty owl
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I mean, I could just hook up some portable miners and unload them regularly in a storage...............

glacial hemlock
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Oh, the extractors you mean are miners

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You overclocked them to 162% instead of 163%, is it?

frosty owl
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On one side, totally my fault...
On the other hand... Bauxite extractors? Really? snuttstach_stare

frosty owl
glacial hemlock
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So setting them 163% solves the problem, but somehow you prefer 162%.πŸ˜‚

frosty owl
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As I said, I want them to run at 100% efficinecy. 163 would make that 97 or something

glacial hemlock
frosty owl
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So yeah, I do that for each pure node and then have to deal with the .6 resource everytime... But I want that smooth graph

lyric cairn
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I was also bored and made 20 refineries for plastic and 20 refineries for rubber which feed into 13 refineries each for recycled plastic/rubber to get me a 780 output of plastic/rubber. Turning all the extra heavy oil into fuel with fuel dilution supplies the machines almost perfectly building up minimal excess. I think throwing things into sinks is weird so I tried to brainstorm something. Obviously not perfect but I was proud. (I think it was 20 packagers, 20 refineries for dilution and 20 packagers to unpack. Also two full mk2 pipes for oil input)

wind spade
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20 refineries for plastic and 20 refineries for plastic
confusion 1000

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also it's not optimal setup, but whatever floats your boat πŸ™‚

lyric cairn
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What’s optimal πŸ™ƒ

wind spade
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alt HOR into diluted into recycled

frosty owl
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I'd like to ask your opinion about the setup I described above, @wind spade , but I fear it might be too much text to request that πŸ˜… πŸ˜‚

lyric cairn
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What is HOR πŸ™‚

wind spade
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heavy oil residue

wind spade
lyric cairn
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Oh using the polymer resin?

wind spade
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huh?

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no, using the heavy oil residue to make diluted packaged fuel and then using the fuel to do the recycled loop

lyric cairn
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πŸ€” I think that’s what I did but maybe my explanation was not good

wind spade
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hm maybe I misunderstood

frosty owl
wind spade
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@frosty owl this?

... to turn the 7788 bauxite of the map into TMs.

frosty owl
frosty owl
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Well, it's not 7800 cause I clock miners to 162% instead of 163%. No big loss there

wind spade
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yeah but I hate you for that and don't read futher xD

frosty owl
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How else would you have mk3 miners on pure nodes run at 100% rolljace

wind spade
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why would you want to run the miner at 100% over having more resources

frosty owl
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Because I don't really lack resources, so I'd much rather have a flat power draw and compensate the lost coupons making more HMF or something rather then having the miners stutter

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It's a 2.4 loss for every pure node, not really that big a deal IMO

wind spade
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either you're maxing something or you aren't πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

frosty owl
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It's not even worth 1 turbomotor/min, I think

frosty owl
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I mean, it's still not maximized since I still need allu sheets for myself (so a couple TMs lost)

lyric cairn
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Endgame falls flat imo also. It’s just coupon maxing as a goal ?

frosty owl
lyric cairn
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I had just been having fun balancing the machines. Strong dislike for the exploration and long distance resource moving logistics. Maximizing anything seems like a total drag of inventory management to make stretches of logistical networks lol. But to each their own. Still fun πŸ™‚

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Things were super lame too until automated power

frosty owl
# lyric cairn I had just been having fun balancing the machines. Strong dislike for the explor...

Heh, I used to think that too. Then studied how the bauxite nodes are positioned and noticed I could make the whole TM factory close to both Baux, water, coal and some copper too. Meaning (once finished) it should produce 150ish TMs using only 3 trains (less then 15 cars) and a stretch of less then 5km of belts going to the nodes IN TOTAL
Less then I had in many other less complex and less compact factories I had in the past

lyric cairn
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That’s pretty sick to plan out tbh.

frosty owl
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Things you can do only if you think about the WHOLE picture (so a maximized factory of some kind, usually)

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But overall I agree with you: making big streches of logistics can be pretty useless if not planned properly. Item count goes through the roof too xD
Also a fistbump for a balancing brotha 🀜

lyric cairn
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Rechecking my math my stuff wasn’t balance at all LUL. Ohwell it was better than it was before πŸ™ƒ

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Emptying tanks of fuel oil every trip back to the base so I can have plastic again. πŸ™‚

frosty owl
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Ughhh, I hate having to remember to do that xD

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That's the weakpoint of your world I guess (since you explore little): too few alt recipes!

frosty owl
lyric cairn
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Haha. First day I streamed this, some dude joined my chat and said β€œbro go find the recipe for casted screws”. I made those 400 extra constructors out of spite. It was more fun to make those jank builds with jank recipes than it was to find those silly hard drives anyways πŸ™‚

frosty owl
lyric cairn
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I may need to cool it as I logged like 100 hours last 2 weeks πŸ™‚

frosty owl
lyric cairn
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Imagine going to rehab playing too much factorio and then you just play satisfactory instead

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My favorite way of travel has been placing down a small aluminum belt and using the forward momentum and jet pack

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True lazy style πŸ™ƒ

peak basalt
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End game falls flat cuz end game isn't complete.

frosty owl
lyric cairn
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Sure. It sounds like a complaint more than it really is. I’m probably just comparing it to its other narcotic (factorio) too strictly. I think the package deliveries would benefit for by requiring more of smaller things or like something like science packs opposed to something that you can fit in your inventory or cheese by tractor crafting. The game is also way to efficient running in AFK mode imo. These are tiny complaints and odd solutions tho

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Belt speed/cost was tremendously imbalanced imo also

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For the insane value it provides

peak basalt
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i think the cost is ok, but i think belts should draw power

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like, maybe the belt draws power from the last machine it come from.

lyric cairn
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Is power ever going to pose a problem ?

frosty owl
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Game's perfect like this, no faults at all xD

fierce ruin
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having experience in factorio when playing satisfactory (or even other games) really ruins the fun
wube software are really the best

peak basalt
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well, if belts would draw power, i think vehicles may be a slightly more viable option

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and belts v train wouldnt have the trains use so much power arguement

lyric cairn
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Tbf I didn’t use vehicles hardly at all except a day I spent trying to get a tractor to work the way I wanted too until I got flustered and quit and made mile long belts πŸ™ƒ

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The downside to belt versus train in factorio was cost/time/speed

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Which are somewhat non factors in this game

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(I say ignorantly)

peak basalt
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if the belt was too long and pulled much power, then vehicles may be more of an option

lyric cairn
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Yeah I see your point. Making vehicles desirable because they work better is just the better route, opposed to handicapping the alternative imo.

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Maybe some logistic bots or amazon drone deliveries thinking_helmet

frosty owl
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IMO the tediousness of making long conveyors is enough of an incentive to go for vehicles trains, but I've seen so many make incredibly huge and long buses that make me feel the boredom of building them just by looking πŸ‘€

old ember
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This is my thing. Trains are just easier to build than mass buses of belts.

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Plus also, it looks cool having all the trains coming and going through the factory.

vivid surge
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Trains are so much fun hope they don't do collisions yet as I need to sort my transport system out. Trains over belts for long distances, trucks for short flat no obstacles route, and then belts for any other route that would be deemed too short for a truck due to the fuel logistics you would also have to do. But mainly trains for everything.

elfin magnet
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Good day to you all

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let me check real quick

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Well the thing is, the alt is probably better if you want to save some time and resources so i would go for the alt recipe

vast jungle
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Do you think it makes sense to build a combined factory for Steel (Pipes and Beams) and Advanced Steel (Encased Industrial Beams , Heavy Modular Frames and Stators) ?

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(I have no useful Alt Recipes at the moment)

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I am trying to find some useful synergies in the ratios at the moment

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Okay, I just saw the dependency chain for the Heavy Modular Frame... forget what I said, this doesn't look like something to "add" to a larger factory πŸ˜‰

topaz hedge
vast jungle
frosty owl
vast jungle
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( Ijust managed to rush to TIer 4 and got some Hypertubes running) but my steel factory is more than a little bit adhoc

vast jungle
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At the moment every floor of my factory does all things on its own... because I forgot to plan a good system how to redistribute stuff when I added the 2nd floor...

frosty owl
# vast jungle At the moment every floor of my factory does all things on its own... because I ...

I may be repeating myself, but having a floor below the machines help greatly with belt management. Even if there are no belts it can be used to make belts pass through buildings easily
Also leave some space for pillars. They are nice as decoration and give the idea of supporting the place... But more importantly, they mark a free vertical space you can use to move stuff with lifts between floors!

vast jungle
frosty owl
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The time when you need to dismantle half a floor just cause you can't get a belt through...

vast jungle
dark depot
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please let me know if this is still accurate

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to all you bad asses out there

night jay
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@dark depot https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production put 40 turbo motor output into this website, it's the updated version of the one you are using. I can't really read that small text to check the alt recipes, but I have a strong feeling some of those numbers may have changed over the past couple updates

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

dark depot
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click open original

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then you can zoom in

night jay
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Yeah, your outline is using 840 coal p/m, on the updated calculator it's using 1990 coal p/m to create the same amount of turbo motors with the same recipes

dark depot
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OOF

night jay
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Almost all your inputs are different.

dark depot
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is this calculating alts though?

night jay
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Yes. You can enable them on the drop down menu to the left of where you put in what you want to craft

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go to recipes, and then enable each individual alt, or enable all at once

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plus you can disable the base recipes if you so wish to force it to use a certain alt recipe

dark depot
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this hurts my inners

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i guess it's worth it to just go for 10 then or something

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just want to max out storage for T8

topaz hedge
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when did this change?

hexed forum
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Henning if you have the solid steel ingot alternate you can make quite a bit of useful stuff with a single 240/240 supply as it means each foundry can supply directly to steel beams. Also possible to make more use of steel with the pipes alternate for encased steel beams. definitely some useful ratios there

vast jungle
hexed forum
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Yeah it's randomly chosen i think

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But with 240 you can manufacture... 3 steel beams and 2 steel pipes i think

vast jungle
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@frosty owl asked me for a few screenshots of my current factory... shall I just add them to "#screenshots" ?

hexed forum
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3 constructors and 2 constructors of the above materials sorry

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Which is 45 steel beam and 40 pipe all told

vast jungle
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sorry, have to convert the screenshots to a more compact form... too large to upload I think

frosty owl
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Shouldn't be.... I always upload the raw, even if the game saves in a uselessly big PNG format

hot ginkgo
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Windows+shift+S gives you a clipping tool. Copy right to clipboard and ctrl+v right into chat.

vast jungle
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One screenshot per MINUTE? WTF...

vast jungle
hot ginkgo
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We have a 100mb upload.

dull bolt
vast jungle
hot ginkgo
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That sounds incredibly convenient.

vast jungle
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okay, this was much easier than uploading it into Discord...

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I don't want to wait for 6 minutes just to upload 6 screenshots...

frosty owl
hot ginkgo
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Isn't it for all members here?

frosty owl
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Pardon me, I expressed myself badly: I wish I could make use of that limit

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Would take me days to upload that much

vast jungle
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At 1 picture power minute I will just upload them to Google I think

frosty owl
vast jungle
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Except for power generation and cement

frosty owl
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Eyy plenty of space for expansion then! Both on the canyon and in the river valley

oblique hollow
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@frosty owl should I make a big PDF file with my Pipeline research data, besides just whats on the Wiki and my Diagrams?

frosty owl
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You haven't yet?
What're you waiting for?
Chop chop!

oblique hollow
frosty owl
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Think about all the pain we have to go through explaining pipes to noobs just because you were to lazy to update your diagrams 🀣

oblique hollow
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I have documentation, just not suited for external use

frosty owl
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We'll make do...
How "perfect" do you want them to be...?

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Also, if you want to test sloshing, @dusky dust got a good example (that showed issues, but not once I tested for some reason) for that ^^

oblique hollow
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Im thinking of making it a kind of guidebook. First "chapter" research data and facts, second is a problem solving guide, last are issues i noticed

frosty owl
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A full MK1 not working properly, much like mk2 it seemed

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Third is copyright and licensing of it jace_smile_2

oblique hollow
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Well, I got a lot of work ahead of me.
Third will be "Open questions and To-Do stuff"

frosty owl
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Imagine licensing guidebooks for someone else's game... rolljace

oblique hollow
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Like "does frictional loss exist? What are the viscosity values for the liquids? What do they affect?"

frosty owl
frosty owl
oblique hollow
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Yeah but i doubt they will xd

frosty owl
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Who do you think would know?

oblique hollow
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Dylan.

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He was a major part in developing them

frosty owl
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Aka? Don't see him in Disc

oblique hollow
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I think hes "Snygglich"

frosty owl
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Never seen in chat :/

oblique hollow
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He dont chat

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Too busy messing with the code xd

frosty owl
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Oh boy, hard way it'll be then... Testing.... And more testing...

oblique hollow
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Yep

dusky dust
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Heh, I'm still not convinced that my issue is actually "sloshing" or something

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It really feels in my case like some floating-point errors just silently accumulate in the background and eventually become noticeable.

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Some kind of slow-but-inevitable growth.

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Like even on that 300/min oil pipe -- with a manifold, it took 40 minutes for any of the refineries in there to be showing any problems at all -- they'd all hop right back to 50 mostly immediately

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When I swapped that test over to something more like a balancer, it took about 90 minutes for any of them to start showing problems

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That or maybe some spike in CPU load, or an autosave interrupting some timing processes right at the worst possible time, etc.

frosty owl
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To add more context, I filled the refineries and let them run for 20ish minutes... I couldn't notice any defect other then some sloshing and half/empty pipes in the manifold sometimes. All ref were refilling properly and at max capacity

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So it doesn't completely bar the possibilities of those half-enpty pipes to actually start having issues later on... Maybe... Possibly...

oblique hollow
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Once again, its a complicated issue. Its hard to test for

vast jungle
oblique hollow
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Dylan actually said that the calculations use pressure systems

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Head Lift is disconnected from that, it seems

frosty owl
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I still think viscosity would be unnecessary and unneeded :/

wind spade
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it uses viscosity, pressure and stuff like that

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similar to real world, but the actual algorithm is hidden

dusky dust
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Someone's got to get some Ghidra going or something. :P

oblique hollow
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Confirming the Frictional Losses is still an open task though

vast jungle
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Memo to myself and everyone... placing two hypertube exits right besides each other is bad for getting of the tube

pine tangle
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Build the fence, problem solved.

frosty owl
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Leave about 4 "units" of space to get out

vast jungle
pine tangle
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I have 3 next to each other for different factory floors, divided by conveyor poles 1 or 2 steps high.

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Whole thing is... 12 by 8.

frosty owl
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"fence" is an organization item. Can block you from flying away from the entrance/exit of the hypertube

pine tangle
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12 by 4 for hypertubes entry points, 12 by 4 for free space.

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Fence is... Of questionable utility right now.

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Very limited placement option and it is strictly horizontal.

frosty owl
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I think they're pretty cool. Love to use them around foundations next to machines for easy access to the machines without falling in peasants' ground level

pine tangle
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Also, build entry points 1 step high (one move upward than setting how high it will be) and angle it downwards one step.

pine tangle
frosty owl
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Upvote

pine tangle
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As a Frame Foundation user, I make decent use of Walkways. Also, aesthetics...
How I wish for Walkways and Foundation being adjustable entities like Poles...

vast jungle
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I would like half fences... To seal of the part without the walkway

pine tangle
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...At least Walkways clip in to foundations... Not the best solution, but with lack of option... :Π·

vast jungle
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Our maybe just a 1/4 foundation... For smaller holes in the ground

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Hmm... Conveyer-ground-holes? Like hypertube holes?

pine tangle
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Foundation "holes" similar to wall's ones are in a steady demand, yes.

wheat saddle
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A belt is smaller than hyper tube

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Also why can't we have excessively high requirements for teleportation

pine tangle
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Teleportation trivialize literally everything about the game? :Π·

wheat saddle
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Isn't coal on mk3 miner mk5 belt on pure node go 720 ppm

vast jungle
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Not if it connects two points by a machine on each side larger than a manufacturer... πŸ˜‹

wheat saddle
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Manufacturers use raw coal ore?

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Also i mean short range teleportation, like less than 300 metres

daring mesa
topaz hedge
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Idk how I feel about teleporting.. Maybe it'll be limited throughput with a very high per item power cost?

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like 20MW per item? I dunno

sinful vale
topaz hedge
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I mean, if you want to teleport something, you have to pay for it right?

sinful vale
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but if it's that expensive you may as well use anything else rather than set up all the uranium in the map

topaz hedge
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Maybe not that expensive, but it's just an example.

daring mesa
sinful vale
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if you are gonna waste almost 16gw for a single belt, it may as well not be there

topaz hedge
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I mean, I did just make up numbers, what I was trying to get across was the concept of spending power to move a part.

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As someone who has yet to adopt trains.. I like belts.

daring mesa
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which, surprisingly, teleportation through this type of system where particle A is destroyed in the process of learning everything about its quantum state, B is tethered to A and we figure out the information about A remotely through it, then we can, with no time delay based on distance, turn particle C into a perfect copy of the quantum state of particle A has been done on the scale of one or two particles in the real world if I remember correctly

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the concept is called "Quantum Teleportation" though really its "Destroy and make somewhere else practically instantaneously from new particles."

topaz hedge
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more reason why it should have a per item power cost if you ask me.

vast jungle
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I like the idea of connecting the personal inventory to a stationary that can be fed from a belt

pine tangle
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Spoiler for un-released content: ||That was a thing in un-accessible content in the past.||

daring mesa
daring mesa
pine tangle
#

Wiki has a complete list for a un-released content dug out in older version of the game. Mostly, Q-Physics related.

daring mesa
#

nice

#

I like quantum theory and such even if my understanding of it is extremely superficial.

#

Hey since it says "Disable Seasonal Events" In the menu, with events being plural... theres more than just FICSMAS isnt there.

vast jungle
#

Quantum theory would most likely day "you cannot teleport"πŸ˜‰

topaz hedge
#

I'll stick to what I do know.. and that's electrical theory and AC waveform. lol

daring mesa
#

thats what "Quantum Teleportation" is

pine tangle
#

According to modern science, you cannot used Quantum Teleportation for transfer of information.

#

On the other hand, modern science is build on a lot of assumptions and extrapolations, so...

#

:Π·

vast jungle
#

The whole trouble
with wavefunction collapse and observers suggest that we have good math but are bad are bad at interpreting what is going on.

daring mesa
# pine tangle According to modern science, you cannot used Quantum Teleportation for transfer ...

well actually you kind of can. Its not "Quantum teleportation" exactly but it does use concepts from quantum theory: Tethered particles are never in the same state, this is part of how quantum computers work, as you can share information encoded in binary so long as there are only two possible states, which for a computer there have always been only two states, and the complex stuff is just a combination of these two: On and Off.

frosty owl
#

This escalated just a tad over what we normally refer to as "math and Meta" in Satisfactory πŸ˜‚

topaz hedge
#

So, I posted a screenshot of satisfactory calculator and made some remark about it lying or something, something about .5 machines

daring mesa
#

Basically if you really wanted to you could have one half of a quantum computer on one side of planet and the other half on the other side, and so long as they were communicating through tethered particles properly, it would function, albeit it would be a horrific task for an engineer to face to find a way to set up the system without messing up the tethered particles.

topaz hedge
#

Also to get us back on satisfactory topic, here's some factory.

daring mesa
#

Once set up though it would function fine.

daring mesa
pine tangle
daring mesa
pine tangle
#

Missed "cannot".

daring mesa
#

quantum teleportation is an expansion of that concept

pine tangle
#

Edited message.

daring mesa
#

and while you cant transfer it directly

#

you can cheat a little which is how quantum computers work

#

because if something can only be on or off, and one of the tethered particles is on, then the other would have to be off for example

#

which happens to work really well with computers when you realize how binary works

#

Or at least, thats one approach to it.

#

Technically the thing we usually refer to as quantum computers is more messy and not based in this at all but hey

#

some concepts like quantum teleportation that are based on this idea do work in practice, so somethings going on

#

theres one site that explains it here ill find some more

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_teleportation#:~:text=Quantum teleportation is a technique,a receiver some distance away.

Quantum teleportation

Quantum teleportation is a technique for transferring quantum information from a sender at one location to a receiver some distance away. While teleportation is commonly portrayed in science fiction as a means to transfer physical objects from one location to the next, quantum teleportation only transfers quantum information. An important note i...

#

I think if I pull up some sites to back up my claim that should end it

topaz hedge
#

While we're talking about all this quantium stuff.

#

Something that's always fascinated me was the universe is 12 billion years old, we know this for a fact(big bang theory w/e) but the universe is something like 150 billion light years big.

daring mesa
#

ah if I understand correctly I believe the universe is actually expanding faster than the speed of light if that helps

pine tangle
#

Well, I did note "if something was not discovered recently". I am pretty sure my own dive in the issues is older than first article linked. Still, that is a lot of "ifs" and "buts" to make the concept meaningless in grand scheme of things.

topaz hedge
#

so the universe is expanding FTL. yeah. I had to have Einstein explain as to how that's possible. I think it falls under his theory of relativity, as the speed of light is relative whatever excited that photon/emitted the light

hexed forum
#

it remains consistent with the speed of light limitation, the acceleration of the expansion is attributed to dark energy I think

topaz hedge
#

I can't really type the whole thing out. but it involved two lights on a train that was moving at 50% the speed of light, and the observer was standing on the platform, if the lights were turned on at the same time he would see light on the far end of the car moving past him turn on first. however if he was inside the train car, they would turn on at the same time.

hexed forum
#

and all our red shift measurements and background radiation measurements are consistent as well

#

yeah there are a few thought experiments to explain what relativity does to keep speed of light constant in a vacuum etc etc

topaz hedge
#

so the universe expanding FTL is because it's relative to itself expanding and as it expands it like adds up or something. Idk man I watched cosmos with neil degrass a few years back on netflix. awesome show lol

hexed forum
#

it would be fun if it wasn't so oppressive for space travel and galactic exploration

dusky dust
#

Heh, I think we've got plenty of hurdles to overcome space-travel-wise before universe expansion starts becoming our main issue. :D

#

Though yes, the ever-expanding universe is rather depressing from a far-future perspective. I think the general consensus is that we're heading for an infinite expansion, rather than eventual Big Crunch?

vast jungle
topaz hedge
#

I have no idea. Either or sounds good to me. I don't really follow all that stuff that closely, but don't get me wrong it's cool af. but most of it is way over my head.

vast jungle
sinful vale
mild wind
#

like you can't send a text line or whatever

vast jungle
daring mesa
vast jungle
# daring mesa Thats just cheating it. Which is still transferring information

okay, lets assume you want transfer a single bit... you take the measurement, yours says "head"... you now know the other side will measure "tail"... but you still have not delivered your bit. You just measured a part of the entangled quantum system... you can use QE as a common source of "randomness"... but you cannot transmit information. The limit of "lightspeed" is integral part of quantum theory.

#

just an unrelated (Satisfactory) question... is there a way to put a sign on a wall?

sinful vale
daring mesa
#

I probably misunderstood something at some point then

#

my limited understanding of quantum theory is superficial and comes largely from sheer curiosity and trying to grasp things way over my head.

dusky dust
#

@vast jungle You could spell things out really hugely using pipes and a bunch of walls. :D

#

You'd be able to read your signs from all the way across the factory!

hexed forum
#

colour coding is how I sign things

pine tangle
#

Memory and patterns for me.

vast jungle
topaz hedge
#

speaking of maths.. Is this just because of the way the sink works? it's getting a steady 20 supercomputers a minute

πŸ“Ž unknown.png
#

but when they're produced they kind of come out in bundles of 5-7 and then there arn't any for probably 10 seconds or so. and that's why the graph isn't flat?

pine tangle
#

What increment graph in, actually? It can be precise enough to notice uneven input.

dusky dust
#

come out in bundles of 5-7 and then there arn't any for probably 10 seconds or so - that's generally been what I assume for graphs like that

#

It presumably just polls frequently enough that it catches those up/down periods. If there was a function to specify a time in which to average the data, the line'd probably even out

topaz hedge
#

I know it's producing 20 a min. which is like 1.9M ppm, but it swings from 2.3 mil to 1.8/1.7 mil

dusky dust
#

(relatedly, I also wonder if a similar effect is happening on these maxed-out pipe setups that I'm using. Like if you end up with a bunch of machines that reach the end of their cycle at the same time, could that be starving the system? Though if that were the case, I'd expect the problem to become apparent much more quickly, since those things are otherwise producing at exact intervals. And I'd expect to see fluctuations on the input pipe, as well)

topaz hedge
#

It's possible, I learned while I was building that factory, actually. it's best to simply not max a belt/pipe

#

because max belts/pipes just act strangely and don't do what they're supposed to

pine tangle
#

Oscillating nonsense like this is why I just build with redundancy.

topaz hedge
#

So, you're gonna come and rework all our factories with redundancy to stop them from oscillating right? :p

vast jungle
#

one drawback of hypertubes... they are LOUD

daring mesa
#

Much safer once you get the blade runners

vast jungle
#

Fun fact... you cannot colorize a Hypertube Entrance

daring mesa
#

yep

#

and hypertube supports

topaz hedge
#

they change color when you change the default.

vast jungle
#

I wanted to color-code the Hypertube-Entrance's in the hub... sigh

topaz hedge
#

it's something they might add in the future, maybe

daring mesa
sinful vale
#

if you are not hitting the death barrier, not enough

mild wind
daring mesa
#

OK IM GONNA KEEP GOING

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

Yeah, I agree it was a longshot. :D And the input-pipe flow rate is a strike against it, too.

wheat saddle
#

Or was that what u were sayin

#

Also I think my coal line is 2*480

#

So 960ppm

gray tiger
#

I want to build a giant factory but I have no plan on where to get started or how to layout my buildings/conveyers.
How can I get started?

I remember a website where a lot of Structures were shown with building instructions but I don't find it anymore

grim oyster
#

I basically dedicate the first few floors to mass basic production, storage, and resource intake. After that i start building everything else.

#

The desert map so far is my favorite for big builds

gray tiger
#

I shared a #screenshots
This layout works at the moment but I don't think it does scale enough for these big factories πŸ€”

peak basalt
daring mesa
dusky dust
#

It's just a few biomass burners, what's the big deal?

#

ducks

#

πŸ‘€

cedar mica
#

1 biomass burner, 1 packager and 2 fuel gens...

daring mesa
#

the issue is I had run out of concrete and couldnt connect multiple power producing buildings together

cedar mica
#

Just reclaim concrete as you go along...

bleak coral
#

you're also two short on iron rods

#

can you overclock biomass generators?

cedar mica
#

Yes, but only to about 60MW

#

Pic show 16 limestone. Along with plate and rods. Enough to make a workbench and 5 concrete

daring mesa
#

there is something very off about this train.

dark depot
#

what is the current coal diagram?

#

/flowchart

wind spade
#

wdym by flowchart/diagram?

dark depot
wind spade
#

yeah that's fine

dark depot
#

^ is this still correct?

#

ok, thanks

frosty owl
daring mesa
magic shadow
#

skamtebord

earnest wharf
#

skmatbord

daring mesa
#

Also we need some sort of skateboard-like item to play with. Factory carts are fun and all, but they just aren't able to get it quite right with the center of gravity they have

wheat saddle
#

Wish we had 'Short-Range Teleporter'

#

Max distance before 'temporal rift too far' 250m

cedar mica
#

There is a mod for that

wheat saddle
#

weawy?

#

really*

#

I am so 🧊

#

I also think we ned hypertube thrusters, like no entrances but to speed up inside as u go

signal nimbus
#

The mod for that scared Kibs.

wispy cradle
wheat saddle
daring mesa
#

ARGH!

mild wind
#

F

magic shadow
#

F

knotty mango
mild wind
hexed forum
#

now you have access to tier 7, remember it is facing reworks in the update coming sometime feb-march

#

I'd say embrace it and stockpile everything you can

magic shadow
#

or make more tier 3-6 things to prepare for final products

daring mesa
earnest drum
bleak coral
#

It doesn't do the logistics for you though, just number of machines and input/output

earnest drum
#

Yeah it works better, but still kinda bad on small quantities

bleak coral
#

What do you mean?

earnest drum
#

Alternate recipe selections not always make sense with their efficiency

bleak coral
#

It's a weighted efficiency, it takes into account how rare a resource not just the total amount of resources used.

#

That's why you can turn off alt recipes and resources though, cause a calculation can't judge based on complexity or logistics overhead

#

Or well I guess a different one could, but this one doesn't

earnest drum
#

well specifically it ignores alternate Casted Screw recipe, even though it requires additional machine that will be producing iron rods for same resource use

#

ah no wait, bolted frame, need to calculate it again....

bleak coral
#

Huh, I was pretty sure it used casted, but bolted isn't resource efficient it just uses less machines

earnest drum
#

ah, Bolted Iron Plate takes more screws

bleak coral
#

I suppose there could be a items/min solve for power efficiency or one for solving for least machines, that'd be neat

earnest drum
#

46x for 3 in base recipe versus 50x for 3, but then it means power is not taken into account

bleak coral
#

If you want those you've got to fiddle with the recipes right now

earnest drum
#

yeah I now know how it works, so I can disable some base recipes to get what I want

#

Thanks for tips!

bleak coral
#

No problem!

dusky dust
#

re: even though it requires additional machine, I don't think any of the calculators attempt to minimize the number of machines you have to build -- they tend to be focused on getting the most out of your ore

#

On the https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production one you can also change the weighting values for the various resources, which can help tune things to exactly how you want

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

bleak coral
#

as far as I know changing available resources doesn't change the weight value for efficiency calculations it just changes the max amount allowable; it should always use the max map resources for the weighted efficiency value

#

@wind spade ?

wind spade
#

yeah

#

weights cannot be changed yet

bleak coral
#

oooh yet

#

hype

wind spade
#

it's on my todolist for quite a while

#

but right now the main focus is on updating the code and libraries to newer stuff

#

which should help with speed as well as make futher development easier

bleak coral
#

@earnest drum I forgot to also mention maximize solves for most items and not for efficiency, so if you want efficient and most you use maximize then take that number and use it with items/min

#

that sounds good, making development easier is always good

wind spade
#

(which in the end is usually the same)

bleak coral
#

I'd imagine the pure recipes might be the exception, since you can run a lot of smelters with the power it takes to run a refinery

#

would you take into account the additional water extractors for a power calculation? obviously miners/oil extractors would be difficult because of node rarity, but there's only one water extractor rate

wind spade
#

pretty much everything is planned in one way or another

#

the issue is not coding it, the issue is coming up with a system that's easy enough to use, but allows for any usage people may want

#

miners are one example, where I'm still struggling to find a good solution

dusky dust
#

Easy - just have it ask for permission to a webcam, snap a photo of the user's face, and glean their intended parameters from their facial expression

#

Easiest UI ever!

wind spade
#

that's also why for now miners are excluded and only the raw ores are displayed

dusky dust
#

If they look real grumpy they might not be in the mood to put down more machines than necessary, etc

wind spade
#

well user's facial expression doesn't tell me how many pure iron nodes he has available πŸ™‚

dusky dust
#

Well yeah, that's all in the eyebrows

#

Some folks might have a harder time expressing that

bleak coral
#

that's what detecting joy is for

#

innocence in their eyes: don't give them any loops

wind spade
#

what if you don't have eyebrows

#

(or a webcam)

bleak coral
#

or a face....

dusky dust
#

That's a question for the engineers! I'm just the idea man.

#

I'll take my VC money now.

wind spade
#

anyway, let's get back on topic πŸ˜›

#

unless you have a good idea how to implement the miners, it's something that's on on my todolist, but not to be implemented soon

dusky dust
#

Yeah, I have no good ideas minerwise, sorry. UI is far from my strong suit

wind spade
#

yeah I'm not a good UI designer either.

dusky dust
#

I'd written some code of my own to do my own production flowcharts which sort of takes miners into account, but assumes everything's a mk3, and makes various assumptions about what node types I was willing to tap for it

bleak coral
#

you could have a drop down for the max mk of miners, belts, and pipes then make the ore count have an arrow to expand the menu so you can put in the number of each type of node you have, and then calculate the ore count from that

dusky dust
#

(so it was rather custom-built for my own purposes)

#

And, y'know, also it's just code that outputs text and SVGs. :P

#

So the UI is just whatever text editor you'd use to edit the thing.

wind spade
#

miners are pretty complex because you have to take all of this into consideration:

  • count of nodes
  • purity of those nodes
  • mk of miner available (or max user wants to use)
  • mk of belt available (or max user wants to use)
  • overclocking capability
dusky dust
#

Indeed

bleak coral
#

maybe I'm just ok with busy UI, but I would just like dropdowns and entry boxes for all of those in the resources, items tab
and I'd probably just assume max overclock capable, it seems like it'd be too much trouble to try and take each individual miner's overclock into account. Though I guess you would need to if you wanted to include miners in power calculation

frosty owl
#

Then you'd have to account for those weirdos who don't even overclock to max and leave miners at weird output numbers like 777.6 just to have them run at 100% efficiency.... What a bother

oblique hollow
#

Im still not sure what the maximum efficiency of OC Generator and OC Miner / extractor combinations are

vast jungle
oblique hollow
#

I was more talking about a question Joshie asked me recently: how much profit can you get out of OC'd Generators (be that coal, fuel, etc)
OC'ing generators is an acceptable thing to do

bleak coral
#

You don't get more efficiency out of them at all, because your power comes from fuel not from generators. The generators just convert the potential energy into power, and overclocking let's you do that with less generators. No efficiency gained nor lost.

#

I'd even argue it's harder to have the correct number of generators for converting your fuel with overclocked because of the decimals introduced so your max output will either be lower or higher than what you can support with the provided fuel, though not significantly so.

oblique hollow
#

The only efficiency i could calculate was Shard Efficiency, at equal OC percentages for Power Consumer and Power Producer.
Its a function, (x/100)^- 0.83
X is once again the OC, from 0 to 250

#

With a limit of about 46.7% at 250% OC

#

Besides, Supplying Generators is very unsteady anyway, there is no perfect input

hexed forum
#

I think that's why i like coal generators so much

oblique hollow
#

They have the same behaviour anyway

eternal slate
#

Hi Im just randomly jumping in because of interesting topic :D

#

I would make "basic" UI for new users and advanced one for more complex settings. This could be changed with a switch. Basic UI assumes most common settings for miners and advanced will have all possible settings essentially in spreadsheet form. where columns are miners with different settings and rows are settings for each miner + count for that kind of miner

glacial hemlock
#

@hexed forum who hates coal generators? Lol

shadow prairieBOT
#

You can send Questions, Feedback, Suggestions, and Bug Reports at https://questions.satisfactorygame.com for suggestion @eternal slate

<3 @dull bolt

Satisfactory Q&A

The Satisfactory Questions and Answers website is a place to report bugs, suggest features, and look for fixes to any issues you run into.

glacial hemlock
#

@eternal slate lol the bot thought you are facing problem. If you are a modder, consider satisfactory modding discord

eternal slate
#

regarding to greenys work :P

dull bolt
#

Ooh

#

xD, I thought it was ui for the game :P. My bad.

glacial hemlock
#

Me2

eternal slate
#

well it seems I was looking through old messages :D should check the timestamps

dull bolt
#

Hehe, it's fine πŸ™‚

#

Cant keep track of everything.

peak basalt
#

I do that quite often on discord mobile. Post something, realize the conversation was 8 hours ago and discord didn't auto scroll down, them delete my seemingly random message lol.

grand marsh
#

oh wrong channel thought said maths media

#

well gonna copy all of this over hehehe

tender compass
#

clipping is bad, mmmk?

dull bolt
#

Well, ppl dislike clipping in general.

grand marsh
#

yeah well it came in handy lol

mild wind
#

most people refuse to clip(unless necessary) bc it doesnt look nice

grand marsh
#

yeah

vast jungle
#

has someone experimented with using smart-splitters (overflow mode) to re-fill a long manifold? I am experimenting with a vertical manifold and a single belt might run dry...

frosty owl
frosty owl
night jay
vast jungle
#

I am building as vertical manifold... standard stuff, just conveyer lifts (between factory floors) instead of conveyer belts

#

I will make a screenshot of one of the splitter stations...

frosty owl
vast jungle
frosty owl
#

Should work and looks good πŸ‘

vast jungle
frosty owl
#

As a sidenote: if you connect a lift to the conveyor wall, can you snap a splitter/merger to that on the inside and have it feed or take items from a conveyor mounted on conveyor wall mounts? πŸ€”

vast jungle
#

the vertical manifold works quite nicely with the "under the floor belt floor"... get the stuff out of the conveyer lift section down there, split it, move it up to the factory, split it again, then back into the conveyer lifts. This way you can easily access the lift on both levels.

#

okay, have to experiment if I can decrease the distance between the splitter and the conveyer wall.

#

hmm... if I try, the splitter appears halfway inside the wall

glacial hemlock
#

@oblique hollow have you got the water tower + valve (0 flow) actually working in vanilla? I am going to test that, and if it actually works, I will update the head lift page too!

wispy cradle
#

@vast jungle , you don't need smart spliters. just put 2 merges to avoid backpressure in the injected belt. S->S->M->S->M->S->S, The machines are connected in each S.

vast jungle
wispy cradle
#

lets number the Ss in my diagram. the S number 3 and 4 would starve without injection.

#

Do math: input / consumption = N.xxxx, i want just the integer. N is my fourth S in diagram.

#

If you use smart+overflow, your N can be the second, and it must be a smart splitter, With smart is easier to understand what is happening.

vast jungle
topaz ingot
#

What's the best place to make coal power plant in grass fields like where coal and water is close

dusky dust
#

There's a lake a little to the north of grass fields which has four coal deposits right next to it

#

(one of the deposits is blocked by some rocks that you need to destroy with nobelisks, which you might not have yet, but the other three are open)

#

So head for your northernish scan locations

topaz ingot
#

I'll try thanks mate

dusky dust
#

np, happy exploring!

glacial hemlock
#

https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Head_lift#Exploits
@oblique hollow

Satisfactory Wiki
Head lift

Head lift determines how high fluids can be pushed up. Only the vertical distance, or the difference between the elevation of starting and ending points, matters; it does not depend on the Pipeline's shape. Each meter of head lift can lift the fluid by 1 meter vertically. Fluids can flow freely along perfect horizontal Pipelines.
Head lift does ...

daring mesa
#

Also is this much variation bad?

dusky dust
#

Nah, I wouldn't personally worry about it

#

With smart splitters sending overflow into sinks, and underclocking literally anything that "needs" it, you could probably flatten it out more

#

But I wouldn't personally worry about that much variation

daring mesa
#

My power readings look like they are having a seizure

#

...

dusky dust
#

The general way to smooth out spikes is to combine the overflow-to-sink thing, so that your factories are constantly producing, and making sure that any machine that can't run at 100% gets underclocked to the rate at which it does get material

#

Like if you've got 45/min Iron Ore coming in to 2x Smelters (which take in 30/min Iron Ore each), you'd either run one at 100% and the other at 50%, or both of them at 75%

daring mesa
#

Yeah I do that. I just have some old setups im scared ill break

dusky dust
#

Personally I tend to just prefer building more power over fiddling with all that too much

#

As I say, the graph you posted wouldn't bother me, personally. :)

daring mesa
#

yeah. I prefer to be efficient the first time. Also im in T7 and I dont rely on nuclear at all.

#

Nor do I plan to until after U4

daring mesa
magic shadow
frosty owl
frosty owl
vast jungle
#

but I underestimated how many different items I am already producing... not enough conveyer lift positions πŸ˜‰

frosty owl
vast jungle
#

and I am in the process of feeding a whole level of my factory into the awesome-sink (the factory, not the products)... this will help with the headroom ^^

frosty owl
vast jungle
#

I do "in-floor" transportation as normal... if it gets tight, I will move some of it to the "flood below"

frosty owl
#

It all depends on the amount of production and distance to storage, really
I had to do that only for one floor of refineries since it was high up and required 4 belts and 4 pipes of stuff, for instance. Everywhere else I could just belt to bottom floor and bring to storage

#

Especially since I make items share belts, so I have very few belts going to storage rolljace

vast jungle
#

nice... the whole factory floor was worth 6 awesome points πŸ˜‰

frosty owl
#

...that... doesn't seem right... o.O

#

Did you just have 6 iron ores on that floor?!

daring mesa
#

it also had a lot of poorly built addons meant to improve its output, at this point I don't even understand how or why it still functions.

frosty owl
daring mesa
#

ah im just saying that my first power plant is highly inefficient and that probably has something to do with it

frosty owl
#

Fuel and nuclear do that more as they have many machines attending to the production of their fuel

daring mesa
#

huh. Myabe all the patchwork addons to my main factory are up to something like how my entire 100% efficiency iron ingot production is backed up by everything else... TIME FOR OVERFLOW SINKS

frosty owl
#

Once you get smart splitters, remember to always put them before your storage and sink all overflow πŸ˜‰

daring mesa
oblique hollow
#

@glacial hemlock sorry for the late reply. Yes, i actually got that working. Right now, though, im abusing a bug with my valves that gives me free head lift below the 0 coordinate for height. Im not sure if its reproduceable on other saves, but mine have ever since been broken

vast jungle
#

What is the fastest way to move the content of a "storage container" to a new one? Carry it yourself... ;)
(just re-did all my central storage area in my base, had to move the content of lots of containers)

hot ginkgo
#

Last time I moved my storage I used a train to move the old storage and routed the existing storage train to the new storage. Took a while. But allowed me to go do other things.

patent bough
#

I've only ever used conveyor belts or manual transfer to relocate storage

vast jungle
#

15 storage containers had to move... 4 meters up, ~10 meters sideways and from a normal into an industrial storage container... Putting my whole stuff into 2 personal storage boxes and doing the rest by hand was the fastest way

fallow vector
frosty owl
fallow vector
#

so I don't need 288 assemblers, i only need 57.6

frosty owl
#

5 seemed a bit low as a number... ahahahah
I only made compacted coal once, so I don't remember πŸ˜…

#

Well, better then ending up SHORT on machines, right? ^^

fallow vector
#

well for one thing it means I can shift to 3x20 single manifolds

frosty owl
#

Or balance them all since they're less....
Just throwing it out there πŸ‘€

fallow vector
#

πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

#

would only need to underclock the last one or two

#

rather than all

frosty owl
#

Why would you underclock them all? Makes no sense to me o.O

#

Unless one wants to get a specific number of machines that can't get in any other way...

fallow vector
#

20*25 = 500, currently limited to mk4 belts

#

underclock all to 96% and that's 24upm instead of 25upm

frosty owl
#

Do 250*2?

#

I mean, you'd still need 2 belts no matter what, right? Or just underclock to stay under 480?

fallow vector
#

oh, clarification

#

I have 3x 480upm coal miners

#

so due to mk4 limit would need 3 manifolds

frosty owl
#

Quite

fallow vector
#

20 machines * 25upm = 500upm condensed coal

frosty owl
#

So why not still have 20 machines, but have the last one in each row underclocked?

fallow vector
#

20 machines * 24upm = 480upm condensed coal

frosty owl
fallow vector
#

last machine at 20% vs all at 96%, which would save most power ?

frosty owl
#

Oh right... Sorry, I never bothered myself keeping that into account
Since I never use planners, that would increase my workload too much πŸ˜…

fallow vector
#

I don't use planners for building construction, prefer to figure that out myself. only use them for "produce this much stuff"

frosty owl
#

I actually even prefer overclocking a tad just to skimp on machine count

#

Like if I have 50.6 I'd make 50 and OC one to 160%

magic shadow
#

ok so i keep seeing this word, manifold
wat dis

frosty owl
fallow vector
#

splitter L/R go to machines, center goes to next splitter

frosty owl
#

Jokes aside, it refers to input or output systems where you put splitters or mergers in series
S - S -S -S <- - - -
| | | |
M M M M
Where S is splitter, M is machine and the arrow is the belt to feed them all

magic shadow
#

so i have been using manifolds this whole time?

frosty owl
#

Probably
But balancing is better
You know what balancing is?

magic shadow
#

yeah proper splitting and easy math

#

just awkward af to build

frosty owl
#

But soo beautiful and easy to understand afterward

magic shadow
#

yes

frosty owl
magic shadow
#

noice

sullen maple
#

Just to be sure, if all a production line is overclocked, from miner to manufacturer, it will drain only more power but not more ressources to product the same amounth of final product?

frosty owl
#

You just save on machines

sullen maple
#

in fact overclock isn't a speed gain but a space gain

fierce ruin
#

Sorry, got confused, more power, more resources and more product.

frosty owl
#

You just multiply the speed at which machines go, but power increases by MORE

fierce ruin
#

But the power increases more than the production.

magic shadow
frosty owl
bleak coral
#

It is a space gain on those too, it just technically space is limited on those because they can only be placed on nodes so the space gain is more appealing

sullen maple
#

i'm actualy planing to max out the production of Nuclear Fuel Rod by using all 3 uranium nodes. So it's better to save more power, to don't overclock the production line on Nuclear Fuel Rod, but overclocked only raw ressources production?

bleak coral
#

Technically you could just add more nodes instead of overclocking, but that's more work than adding another constructor for example

frosty owl
#

Just the idea of someone overclocking a miner to be able to build over another node triggers me so much...

fierce ruin
#

Yeah, that sounds weird.

bleak coral
#

Don't do that, that's like a 500+ hour project and they're about to change nuclear in a couple months so it'd all break

fierce ruin
#

Why not overclock miners on both nodes?

sullen maple
#

i'm gonna start a new game for the update 4, so it's fine for me to work on nuclear now πŸ˜„

frosty owl
sullen maple
frosty owl
#

To give you an idea, it's to the point he had a developer help him modify gamefiles to let the game run his save

magic shadow
#

whoa i hadn’t heard of that before

sullen maple
#

oh boy, what i've plan πŸ˜‚

frosty owl
#

He maximized nuclear, though... And close to finish up sulfur and quickwire too, I think

#

We could just ping and ask ^^

magic shadow
#

yeah he’d need to maximize nukes to power all of that lmao

frosty owl
#

Not really, he's not even close to power cap

magic shadow
#

eventually i mean

sullen maple
#

power cap? wdym

frosty owl
#

He could probably power all his base with 1/5 of it or even less I think

frosty owl
sullen maple
#

oh capacity, i was thinking limit

frosty owl
#

Since he's got maximized nuclear, that's literally the same (unless he makes fuel too....)

#

For reference, he's running about 4k machines

sullen maple
#

I need to know if it's the visual rendering or if the management of a billion values ​​that stress the game more

topaz hedge
#

It looks like he left the server.. last time I talked to him he said something about waiting for them to upgrade the game engine to play satisfactory again. so I dunno

magic shadow
#

well hopefully ue 4.25 helps him have more than 1fph

hexed forum
#

3600 spf is not a strong sun screen

magic shadow
#

lol we talking from recent experience here?

hexed forum
#

the game is doing ok now thanks to some help from here

#

I was running into death lines

#

solution: don't make your stuff on deathlines

magic shadow
#

yeah

glacial hemlock
topaz hedge
#

I hope with the new update and engine and all that, they improve the game's handling of decimals.

glacial hemlock
#

Like foundations rounding error, and to allow power shard accepting decimals

bleak coral
#

I don't think the engine upgrade will address floating point precision errors. That'd have to be addressed by using a larger datatype, switching to fixed point, or both.

#

All of which have positives and negatives

topaz hedge
#

Prehaps, yeah you probably right, I'm still working on how to deal with it personally, and I don't really have a solution myself. Something like .07 items/min doesn't seem like it would matter much, it does when you scale up production, and it hurts when you do all the math, everything inside the production windows adds up, and yet this happens

πŸ“Ž unknown.png
#

I switched which end of the row i have underclocked, and it seems like it's holding on a bit better, before that every 15 miuntes or so, it'll run empty and drop to 99%.

bleak coral
#

allowing decimals in clockspeeds would go a long way to solving the issue, but I don't know what the performance impact of that is if that means switching from integers to floating point

#

I personally just always round up the clockspeeds to make sure my machines can process everything I'm giving them and not underfeeding something later

#

like say if the last machine needs 40ppm but it runs at 45ppm at 100% I would make it run at 89% for 40.05ppm instead of 88% for 39.6ppm

topaz hedge
#

I try to do that now as well, building my sc factory was definitly a learning experience, I'm not a 100% efficiency nut, but I do have to meet my production target, if a machine down the chain has to run at 99% so be it.

bleak coral
#

that pretty well sums up where we're at with only integer clockspeeds

glacial hemlock
#

Supercomputer, hehe, going to have problem after update 4

topaz hedge
#

Lets not talk about that.

#

if we could adjust clockspeed by a tenth of a percent that'll probably solve most of the issues we have with decimals.

#

as far as my factory, well. in all honesty, it could probably use a rebuild, it was my first megafactory and mistakes were made.

glacial hemlock
#

If fraction is accepted it would be even better

oblique hollow
marsh gate
#

Hey. Question about what I should be using as an upgrade (aka if I need more).
Right now I have the default/min of Steel Pipes and Beams. Do I go by the power of 10 or the power of 2 to hopefully not fuck the ratios up?

#

To go from 20 pipes to 30 pipes, or go from 20 pipes to 22 pipes. Or do I go by the power of twenty, and have 40 pipes?

#

What number works best with this game, and using the default recipes by the way.

sullen cloud
#

You should better unlock the next tiers and you gonna see how much pipes you need for succeeding productions

#

Beams are not that important atm

marsh gate
#

That doesn't really answer my question. I'm talking about general upgrading (for anything).

#

The Pipes/Beams are only an example.

sullen cloud
#

well, I am producing one machine at 100% just for storage (=building items). That’s 20 pipes ppm. I also produce approx. 500 pipes ppm for succeeding production lines

marsh gate
#

But what did you use when you said "I need more X"?

#

What math power did you use?

#

2? 4? 10? 20?

sullen cloud
#

My personal playstyle is: one machine at 100% for every item, that is then stored

#

So every input is calculated by the output

#

Exceptions are eg heavy frames at 10 ppm in order to produce a higher amount because I need a lot of them for building

hexed forum
#

I'm not sure whether this also works to avoid your decimal mis-matches but if you had 250 something going into four machines, and they'd need to all be at 62.5% to produce the goal amount (250/4) could you put two of the machines at 63 and two at 62 and split the 0.5 difference that way

#

you'd be producing 250% then or you know the correct amount without decimals

glacial hemlock
#

@sullen cloud for me, upgrading generally is an upscale of 3 or higher

topaz hedge
#

Well, my power graph isn't that coveted flat line, but I tried, decimals make things very difficult, add in a little inexperience building big factories and there you go.

πŸ“Ž unknown.png
#

if you're trying to get to higher tiers, you'll need beams, pipes, and some other stuff I can't remember. the worst of it is phase 3 where you need 100 adaptive control units to unlock tier 7 and 8

hexed forum
#

If you make an independent heavy frames and computer site the adaptive requirements look a lot less demanding

#

Although it's all the same work in the end

#

I found in a previous play through that one large container of heavy modular frames was more than enough to 'finish' my factory

#

Computers are in more demand though πŸ˜…

topaz hedge
#

Yeah, as long as you have enough of the basic stuff, you could skip buiding a factory for space elevator parts and just use a container(s) fed mfg, mfg's or assemblers feed your space elevator. might save a little time.

night jay
oblique hollow
#

Its very nice indeed. Most real life Powerplants would be jealous of such a "flat" graph

night jay
#

"Hey, can ya'll just keep all of your electronics on at once? I'm trying to get a flat graph over here!"

frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

Having one machine at a lower percent is more reccomendable than having a high power machine in on-off-operation

#

Since Power Fluctuations are the devil's tool

frosty owl
# sullen maple I need to know if it's the visual rendering or if the management of a billion va...

It IS a bit of 50/50
Fiest issue is the game's internal object count limit
Once you pass that, there are the issues of which will be struggling first:
your CPU for handling all the items and machines (being efficient in building helps, like using OC as possible, non building senseless amount of storages and deleting useless parts of conveyors)
your GPU for the clusters of items/machines you may have (spreading out your factory and walling things up help)
Or your RAM due to the sheer amount of data in the world

frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

Lowers the Risk of blowing the fuse and makes reading the power graph easier

daring mesa
frosty owl
#

Tasty spaghett

daring mesa
#

this sink handles iron ingots, plastic, rubber, and some project assembly parts I never bothered to stop producing.

#

yet all I see right there is iron. Why? Because I make way too much

#

anyway, Im slowly improving efficiency at my base, one smart splitter at a time.

#

thats how Im preparing for U4 anyway since I dont do anything with T7 yet.

eager scarab
glacial hemlock
#

@oblique hollow ah, the infamous duck curve

glacial hemlock
eager scarab
topaz hedge
#

u can do eet

topaz ingot
#

Anyone got a design for fuel generators with 300 m^3 oil pr min

hot ginkgo
topaz ingot
#

thanks

hot ginkgo
#

If you need more help with it. I suggest one of the calculators located in this channels pins. Will give you all math for any scenario you can imagine.

#

As for building placement. Well, that's part of the fun.

topaz ingot
#

.-.

hot ginkgo
#

Although.

#

Thats for turbofuel.

hot ginkgo
topaz ingot
#

Sorry was eating, yea pretty much the basics @hot ginkgo

hot ginkgo
#

No worries. 300 oil will feed 5 refineries doing the basic fuel recipe. Produces enough fuel to feed 13.33 fuel gens. Around 2kMW. Then set up a sink for the resin.

topaz ingot
#

yea i just set that up πŸ™‚

hot ginkgo
#

Once you get that all set. I would just build more of the "modules" if needed until you get all the alts for turbofuel. Then build that monster set up.

topaz ingot
#

Stage 6?

hot ginkgo
#

Yup.

dusky dust
#

Heh, I've just finally gotten around to doing the big ol' turbofuel setup myself. Just have sigh almost 150 fuel gens to plonk down and pipe. QQ

topaz ingot
#

only 750 computers

hot ginkgo
#

I rebuilt mine when the packagers released. Didn't save a ton of space. But definitely much nicer to set up. I love the stacked inputs. M

topaz ingot
#

Stacked input?

#

:c

frosty owl
# topaz ingot Stacked input?

The packager building has the inputs stacked on top of one another, rather then at the side of each other like in other buildings

hot ginkgo
#

For my building style it worked way better.

marsh gate
#

Hey. When it comes to Steel Beams and Pipes, are there any alt recipes that would have better ratios? Looking at the wiki for Beams alone, I'm not seeing any notes about "highly encouraged to use X".

frosty owl
#

No. Only those recipes

sinful vale
marsh gate
#

Alright, alright. :)
And what about the steel ingots themselves? Like, I saw something where you can use iron ingots instead of ore, but I dunno if those are better ratios or not.

topaz ingot
#

You got a pic of the stage 6? I wanna see the reused canisters @hot ginkgo

frosty owl
sinful vale
#

it's one of the best alts, by turning your ore into ingots beforehand, you get a free 50% more steel

hot ginkgo
marsh gate
#

Hmm. Alright. I'll try to aim for that one. Thank you.

frosty owl
marsh gate
#

Alright. Are there any other good ones I should keep my eyes open for?

frosty owl
#

That's about it for steel
But any "pure" recipe gives the best out of your metal ores

sinful vale
sinful vale
pine tangle
#

...But Pure Copper is pretty good?.. :p

sinful vale
pine tangle
#

After Factorio, I find it puzzling how little use of Copper is in Satisfactory.

dusky dust
#

heh

#

Pure Copper is good for usage ratios, pretty hideous to set up, though. (As I've mentioned before, I've still got to finish up the majority of my 98-refinery Pure Copper array.)

#

My planned Steamed Copper Sheets array is pretty huge as well

#

I am not talking about that kind of S t e a m, Dyno. Shush.

magic shadow
#

steam

topaz hedge
#

I thought we didn't talk about copper o.O

sullen cloud
#

3 new project assembly party’s in update 4. looks like production will finally get more complex and combine more items

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

More than double the amount of copper ingots out of the same amount of ore

#

I agree that if you're comparing versus Copper Alloy Ingot then the extra ore efficiency isn't as pronounced, of course

#

As for numbers, I've stopped caring about decimals and stuff for the most part

#

Just add up the totals and manifold stuff; so long as your inputs don't exceed your outputs, you're fine.

vast jungle
frosty owl
#

It's hard to balance for those who don't lower themselves to always use manifold xD

dusky dust
#

Some people do insist on making things as hard as possible for themselves, I agree. :D

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

Gonna have a 72-smelter manifold in my ficsmas lines once I get everything expanded for Wonder Stars

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

It's not really time that I like saving by using manifolds so much as utterly trivial expansion

#

Just leave room at the end and you can expand all you like, up to your belt limits anyway

#

I suppose I will find out once I go up to 72 (it's at 52 currently).

#

Relative compactness is enjoyable as well; I like not having to leave as much belting room

frosty owl
#

Ever since I started having a floor for belts I stopped caring about keeping belts compact. It gives so much space that not only you can balance easily, you can even manage and redistribute belts coming from other buildings or the output itself (though I usually keep the output on machine floor just for show)
I just care for them to have as few segments as possible

dusky dust
#

Yeah, I've been doing the under-floor belting, too. I still like having them much more compact. :)

pine tangle
#

I try to keep my builds realistic and use Foundation Frames - and even these are really good for under-the-hood belting.

dusky dust
#

Plus no trying to cope with weird ratios and decimals, etc.

pine tangle
#

Problems is, "maximum compact" is poorly compatible with "building by grid".

#

Since increments are dictated by Lifts and Splitters/Mergers sizes, which are 4 meters.

dusky dust
#

Oh, I'm definitely not trying to be maximally compact

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

Just if I've got the option to manifold a line of 18 refineries versus trying to balance them, I'm gonna go with a manifold every time nowadays.

pine tangle
#

Screw balancing sf_screw
Not with current Logistic options.

frosty owl
pine tangle
#

Oh yes. Pillars at the edges and paved in Foundation Frames (upper layer filled with 1m thick foundation) for floor.

frosty owl
pine tangle
#

For example, my typical bridge section is 4 frames with filled upper 1 m, Pillar, 4 filled frames again.

#

To my surprise, worked really well for Coal setup if building it as second floor over Extractors.

#

CSS sunk a lot of though in to all ratios between collision boxes for entities - at least by my impression. Very well done.

pine tangle
frosty owl
#

Oh, right, silly me. It's a 2:3 (manif - const)
Still pretty convenient, though

stray moon
#

how would i split 40 into 4?

wind spade
#

either using a manifold

--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X

or using a balancer

--S------S--X
  |      |
  S--X   X
  |
  X
stray moon
#

how do i do it with balancer?

wind spade
#

that's the second schema

stray moon
#

that splits it into 4?

#

well. not into 4. but one output equals 4

wind spade
#

then I highly recommend manifold

#

because otherwise you'd have to do some crazy stuff

#

if you really 100% insist on balancer (don't know why, but it's your choice), you have to split the line into two first and then make two 1 to 5 balancers (first a merger, then split into two, then split each one into three to get 6 outputs and put one output back into the merger at the start)

stray moon
#

alrighty.

wind spade
#

but manifold is just so much easier

#

just 10 splitters in a row

sinful vale
wind spade
#

no, they want 10 belts πŸ™‚

#

[00:46] Elemental Rose: well. not into 4. but one output equals 4

sinful vale
stray moon
#

no i ment i want 10% of it on one belt. so 4 items per minute instead of 40

wind spade
#

yeah that's what I said

stray moon
#

yea πŸ˜„

sinful vale
#

then i agree with greeny, i would manifold it rather than load balance it

wind spade
#

and I still think that manifold is better for this, since you can put as many splitters as you want and it'll work

stray moon
#

i know. i just like the look of balancers and prefear all my machines to work immediatly rather than have a start up time

wind spade
#

the startup time is really minimal

#

and you can pre-fill the machines for immediate working

sinful vale
#

if the start up time is an issue, you can make 2 manifolds rather than 1, by splitting the belt before, and sending half of it to feed half of the machines

peak basalt
#

You could also make a manifold using smart splitters. Have each smart splitter set to feed a machine, then overflow to the next smart splitter. This allows the first machine to fill before the 2nd gets anything... and so on.

wind spade
peak basalt
#

It doesn't help the overall start up time, but it does have a nicer look.

#

Almost load balancer look, but without the headache of setting up a proper balancer only to redo it when you upgrade your factory.

mint lion
#

me: okay, I need 18 foundries, that divided by 2 is six foundries on each side
me: continues building for 6 hours
me: why aren't the output numbers what they're supposed to be
conclusion: I am an idiot

sinful vale
#

if you use mk2 pipes at 600m3 flow rate, then there is the problem

frosty owl
sinful vale
#

don't speak to me load balancing heretic

frosty owl
sinful vale
#

no one will expect the manifold inquisition

sinful vale
frosty owl
#

Dear lord, the patience you have... I can't handle waiting or having to fill machines to see if they run exactly as I want or not :/

#

I'd much rather spend time connecting splitters... I guess...

frosty owl
sinful vale
frosty owl
sinful vale
frosty owl
#

What where?
I'm in my low IQ mode, pardon if my writing and comprehension skills are lower then they usually are ...

sinful vale
#

the 3rd and 2nd to last

frosty owl
#

Eff off, you all just want to be mean to balancers 😒

sinful vale
#

the church of the manifold doesn't lie

frosty owl
#

Spit on da fake church! They do not know da way!

sinful vale
frosty owl
#

Spits harder

sinful vale
#

welp, i did try

#

time to go back to basics

#

brings out the torch

stray moon
frosty owl
stray moon
#

Only time i really use a manifold is if it was like. .25 of an item. Like. Yeah sure. Ill edit the game code and split an ingot into 4 seperate pieces.

frosty owl
#

Well, it's not impossible to balance that too... XD
It's just 1 item every 4 seconds after all

#

Still, I'd OVERFLOW that from other productions. Having to actually divide a line to get that number would be quite the pain...

stray moon
#

Indeed. So that is the only time i manifold XD

frosty owl
#

I don't think that defines ad manifold πŸ€”
It's just an overflow system (that could be overflowing out of a balancer, maming it more aking to a balancer then a manifold)
But it's semantics really xD

stray moon
#

XD indeed

bleak coral
#

if I load balance I just stick to stuff that's a multiple of 2 or 3, and mess with clockspeeds and build more machines to get a number of machines that works

#

I don't fux with that 5 balancer stuff

frosty owl
#

I quite like 5 ways balancers' design. I like how the belt with the merger and backfeed line looks pretty cool ^^
Though I obviously try to avoid them as they're more cumbersome to build

vast jungle
#

I had the first manifold yesterday where the belt speed was the limit... 9 smelters for iron ingots... and a mk 3 belt... damned, last smelter needs something extra. Still, the layout was much more compact than it would have been with balancers... and thats the easy version, doing a balancing for Foundries/Assemblers or even Manufacturers sounds like hell.

frosty owl
#

Heh, you'd think... ;)

#

Well, realistically it all comes down to how much space and what belts do you have. If you plan in advance for it, balancing can be achieved easily
But your base seems a bit too compact for that ^^

#

Considering that part of your "belt floors" are already occupied by other belts and lifts going around

green kettle
#

x^3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993 = 1

#

what is x?

#

||I am such a funny man I know||

#

😦

wind spade
#

not funny, just spamming this pure channel

green kettle
#

I mean you can call 3 messages spam... but a bad joke every now and then should also be possible right

wind spade
#

spam = unwanted message

green kettle
#

then you're spamming too

wind spade
#

that doesn't justify your spam and also I'm just telling you that what you wrote doesn't belong here, probably in #off-topic-general

green kettle
#

but lets not continue this conversation here or at all

boreal cypress
#

Lets rename the Channel to "Greeny's-Math-and-Meta"

patent bough
#

my guess is the extra build and planning time for a balancer of sufficient complexity will be greater than or equal to the warm-up time for a manifold. (though building and planning time are harder to measure)

#

the build complexity of a manifold is constant; it's always the same pattern

boreal cypress
#

@wind spade one question, how long do you think you need for implement the new building and parts into your calculator?

patent bough
#

also a manifold is always expandable if you leave room for more machines

wind spade
#

@boreal cypress new buildings?

boreal cypress
#

U4 things

wind spade
#

after U4 drops πŸ™‚

boreal cypress
#

but how fast? xD

wind spade
#

15 mins

boreal cypress
#

thats fast o.0

wind spade
#

it's automated

boreal cypress
#

nice ^^

#

and I see, your calculator now use more fused wire instant of iron wire when i use all alternates ^^

wind spade
#

that depends on what you ask for πŸ™‚

#

also maximize mode doesn't optimize for items yet

boreal cypress
#

120 Turbo Motor, few months ago it gave me iron wire, now it give me fused wire

glacial hemlock
#

@green kettle the answer to your math equation has 3.1415... solutions, where x1 = 1, x2 = 1@2rad, x3 = 1@4rad, where (x2, x3, ...) are complex numbers.

frosty owl
sinful vale
green kettle
#

can we forget it already it was a terrible joke (ON PURPOSE) and deserves no more attention

sinful vale
#

you can't escape your sins

green kettle
frosty owl
frosty owl
#

So excited to finally have packaged acid and allu solution
Finally no issues with the turbomotors production having an excess of solution!
Oh wait, by the time those will be out, the factory won't work.........
F

bleak coral
#

Um the water is the part you had/have to loop in aluminum

frosty owl
#

Yes

dusky dust
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Yeah, being able to overflow those and deal with 'em will be nice

#

Can be a little less precise with your setups.

frosty owl
#

Exactly. Gives a much appreciated wiggle room

bleak coral
#

you're all weak, recycled loops for lyfe! πŸ˜›

lyric bloom
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@frosty owl hm. "modular" aluminum production. do tell.

frosty owl
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In my case I made the calculations for a maximized alluminium production (so using all the bauxite of the map), but the smaller blocks should be small enough for most uses

lyric bloom
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OW, yeah, i'll probably just be using the red forest area.

frosty owl
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Here's a description I made of the setup, you can check that out and ask any questions if you want (lemme just find the link)

frosty owl
lyric bloom
#

there's still so much map out there. I'd probably be more amenable to exploiting resources elsewhere if not for the commute time.

frosty owl
frosty owl
lyric bloom
#

that's pretty massive, eek. i don't think my cpu would enjoy that, LOL.

#

(also, i appreciate the conveyor-less pic for clarity)

frosty owl
#

Of course you don't need to go on that scale. But each array of 5 allu scraps refineries gives you an output that you can manage quite well with the next machines (see the 5:3:4:4:3 ratio part)

lyric bloom
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that's pretty solid

frosty owl
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There is a conveyor "with" screen too, but yeah... Not as clear