math-and-meta

[ember fractal]

If it was 50% more power, then it would be worth it

Otherwise it's just a giant chain of production for barely any benefit

[meager kettle]

barely any?

[dusky dust]

I mean if your grid is big enough, the production costs for the "fixed" amount of APMs would be pretty trivial compared to the gains you'd get

[cerulean stratus]

thanks, I figured it out

[meager kettle]

you do realise it based on your actual power production

[oblique hollow]

the more power you already make, the stronger the APM build becomes

because its a single investment into a continuous multiplier for power

[eternal pendant]

i have a similar working setup. I put all belts on a carousel loop. everything is loaded/unloaded from an empty access on the bottom. loaded goods go to the top and splitters/mergers cascade push everything down, items unloaded from the bottom belt. Because it's in a loop, the splitter/merger cascade can be 'in line' rather than stepped. every time you add or remove an item you add your splitters/mergers.

[cerulean stratus]

do you think it's more efficient than what I'm doing?

[eternal pendant]

from what i understand, this wont push everything to the bottom, just one belt below it unless you keep repeating it over and over

by looping

[cerulean stratus]

oh crap you're right

[eternal pendant]

i hope it makes sense the way i explained, i can find some images

[cerulean stratus]

Are you in 1.2? @eternal pendant

[eternal pendant]

i am

[cerulean stratus]

when this is done, I want to show it off to you

[eternal pendant]

this is an old pic

you can see how you have to cascade the spliters/mergers, but by looping you can stack them and it causes it all to be more compact

the pic isn't 100% accurate but i can't find my new one

you can also do a push up variety instead of a push down

i used to use them to unload trains and consolidate them, and the footprint would be smaller than the train depot

as opposed to something that looks like this lol

[cerulean stratus]

what kind of player would you describe yourself as?

[oblique hollow]

LGIO but less insane

[eternal pendant]

1600+ hours, still hasn't beat game cause i always find something i can do better

[cerulean stratus]

@oblique hollowwho's lgio, what does he do

[meager kettle]

would be concerning if you was more insane :p

[meager kettle]

look up "lets game it out" on youtube

[eternal pendant]

idk, LGIO but totally sane sound very concerning

[cerulean stratus]

ah, josh

[unique cypress]

I heard these don't even work properly

[eternal pendant]

belt consolidators do work, i've been using mine since before smart splitters were a thing. smart splitters and priority mergers make it a lot less difficult though

as for that particular example, i think it was just an effort to explain rather than be functional

[unique cypress]

there is a popular YT design (which looks similar to this one) that only mostly works

[eternal pendant]

yes, total's, and i'm not claiming to know anymore than he does, but he's a content creator and making something excessive is kind of his thing. in theory, it should work fine, and i think the issue was he didn't set it up correctly and caused him problems trying to figure out what he messed up

what i was trying to convey is that you totally do not need something that big to consolidate that many belts - it does make it easier to understand tho

he did get it working i believe

this is an 8 belt push-up (bottom belt not shown) version

you can see how expanding it to 32 or how many ever belts he made would compare to what i have

just loop the left side to the right and it eliminates the cascade requirement

[cerulean stratus]

can I employ your services in my world?

[eternal pendant]

what's that?

[cerulean stratus]

I'll pay you

in iron ore

[eternal pendant]

i need more water honestly

[weary spire]

which one is better?

[median heath]

Better is subjective.
Which you do, personally, see yourself using?

[weary spire]

i mean prob right one cuz i have rubber on the other site of the map and i have everything i need from second one in one place

[median heath]

Then go with the right one.
You will unlock all alternates eventually.

[dusky dust]

Expanding on what's been said: there really isn't "better" or "worse" with alt recipes. They're just there to give you options while building. Like as you've seen, you've got rubber available so that one seems like it'll be more useful to you at the moment.

Later on when it's time to build another factory, you might find that the other one is more useful instead

Alt recipes trade one resource for another, or trade complexity for resource efficiency, etc, etc. It's not that one's better or worse, it's that there's one which fits better in a situation than another. But you might find yourself in a variety of situations, so it's nice to just keep collecting until you have 'em all. :D

(Also: how well a recipe works for any given situation can depend a lot on all the other recipes you're using in a factory chain. Sometimes a recipe might look Not Great but then you realize that it works really well if you use it in conjunction with these other recipes, etc)

[meager kettle]

there is at least one recipe is which is just all around worse than other options :p

[fleet notch]

Heavy encased frame is better imo

[median heath]

Yes, that is how "better is subjective" works.
It is a matter of opinion.

[fleet notch]

Yes, opinions which Corthane was asking for. What exactly is your point?

[vast jungle]

I normally use the Pipe version myself so I don't have to get Oil products involved

but as soon as the first good Plastic/Rubber factory is online this just becomes an excuse

[meager kettle]

you can also use other alts leading up to encased frames which simplifies and improves productivity a lot

[median heath]

Flexible is also reliant on Steel Screw to be "very good" you could say.

[fleet notch]

I just can't see the extra complexity of flexible frame being worth it unless you're really starved for steel

[meager kettle]

using steel plates, iron wire, stitched plates, molded steel pipes, steeled frames, encased pipes etc

[fleet notch]

I didn't put too many alt recipes in those flowcharts but I'm pretty sure they make encased frames even more of a winner, yeh

[unique cypress]

it doesn't really even save much

[tranquil ember]

Hey, Im trying to plan out my first nuclear power plant and am wondering how many fuel rods they eat per minute

[unique cypress]

!wikisearch npp

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=npp

[tranquil ember]

perfect thanks I think Ive narrowed down a plan for what I need, just gotta figure out how I wanna build it now.

[floral elk]

Anyone know how to figure out how many fuel generators ya need for a certain amount of fuel?
I'm producing 10.8k rocket fuel with my setup and dunno how many generators i need

[dusky bronze]

iirc each generator shows how much of each type of fuel it consumes (should be a little icon somewhere in the menu)

but i can tell you that nearly 11k rf is gonna be a few thousand generators

[limpid vapor]

Not really, closer to 2600

[prisma kraken]

where the comparison btw flex frame and encased frame becomes more apparent is in realizing that one takes less mod frames per heavy momma. the largest portion of an HMF factory is actually the mod frames, so heavy encased really wins by a large margin

the trade-off with encased is that it requires gobs & gobs of concrete which is logistically tricky to marshall into your build

[unique cypress]

Divide by the consumption of one generator

[floral elk]

Oh dear god, that's 2.5k gen ...
Trying to now find out how much rocket fuel is used per minute when overclocked to 250%

[unique cypress]

2.5x more than at 100%

[floral elk]

That's what I'm trying to figure out xD
Help an idiot out a bit 😅😅

[limpid vapor]

4.166667 x 2.5?

[unique cypress]

10 5/12 per min per gen

or 10.41(6)

Or 1036.8 gens at 250%, assuming you have exactly 10800 RF/min

[limpid vapor]

If you have enough power shards for that

[unique cypress]

Oh yeah that's more than half of the slugs

[floral elk]

Thanks for the help, after like 2ish hours of optimising my setup to produce that amount of RF, i ended up a bit brain dead, but after ya said that, i think imma gonna nerf my production a bit, i don't have the power shard production unlocked yet so that's gonna limit me a bit xD

[limpid vapor]

It's not, you can still just build generators without overclocking them

Make a decent stackable blueprint that auto connects pipes, build a stack for each pipe of fuel you have, easy

[prisma kraken]

slooping the slug squishing doubles them, so that isn't that tall of a task

plus the second you get into phase 5, they're essentially free to make in a box factory

[plain slate]

might be a dumb question but how would i split the 80 from the 480if each one makes 30 wire per min? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=5Fm9vljmTGsB6kjXPyd2

[vapid gorge]

clocking

or use a manifold , it self balances

[plain slate]

can i show you my current setup?

[vapid gorge]

if yo uwant

do you have mk4 belts?

[plain slate]

nah mk 3

[vapid gorge]

then you'll at least need 2 belts for the 400 and 1 belt for the 80

clock machines to put those numbers on belts for you

clocking solves almost all your problems

[plain slate]

How would I do the 2 belts for the cable in that constructor manifold

The small one

[vapid gorge]

clocking
clock like 2 groups of constructors making 200 wire each pm

fits on 2x mk3 belts

always clock. clock clock clock. ABC
Always Be Clocking

[plain slate]

so for the 7 constructors in the back i split them into 2 groups aswell>

?

[vapid gorge]

where?

[plain slate]

thats not the one im doing its just the automated wire i abandoned that one

idk if i sent the right link

[vapid gorge]

probably not

[plain slate]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=QfgdodbUjoSaCODcC8SK try this one

its just automated wire i built the smart plating factory seperate

[plain slate]

thats the one

[vapid gorge]

do you mean 6.66666 constructors?

[plain slate]

ye\

[vapid gorge]

depends how you do the belts before hand

if you do 2x 200 wire pm belts, you make 2 groups of constructors that use 200 wire each

@timber python keep waste and fresh split, very reliable

for example. blue is fresh, red is waste https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/1289415239149813840/image.png?ex=69f6b485&is=69f56305&hm=a4191cb46cdd53bb7fdd330c186594acadb977adb7e361fdbaadfc3c33faaf89&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[timber python]

Im not noticing any issues with them being together yet. And i do not see how it possibly could become an issue

[vapid gorge]

it's not impossible to inject them together but it's unreliable and depending on your set up could break later.

and it's 'possible' because pipes are bi directional

they aren't belts

good luck with it

[timber python]

Well, yes, they are, but exactly the same amount of water is used up as is pumped in.

[vapid gorge]

... pipes are bi directional.

they can back flow and stutter the system

exact amounts don't matter to that

But I have given you the information and warning. Good luck with it

[timber python]

So far working great.

Both water extractor and refinery 2 are completely empty of water, while refinery 1 is supplied. Of course i have a smart splitter for the aluminium, backlog there would of course throw it out of wack

[plain slate]

Im working on it rn ill show you when done

[timber python]

Worst case one could still add an additional pump between the mixed water and the consumer (refinery 1) but that does not appear to be neccessary

[vapid gorge]

there definitely hasn't been 4 years of tons of people mixing waste and fresh water on this server having tons of issues with it, it's true

[timber python]

Oh, i absolutely think people did

[plain slate]

Here’s the completed factory

[prisma kraken]

i'll chime in and say that i regularly build aluminum with a mixing of fresh and wastewater. if you know all the pitfalls, it is quite possible to get it working properly

[dusky bronze]

I think that less safe is the word instead of unreliable

[prisma kraken]

there's a lot of gotchas, but if you get it running, and ensure it never, ever stops, it'll keep humming for 100's if not 1000's of hours

[dusky bronze]

^^

They run the same in the end

Mixing could possibly be more annoying to fix if the whole system goes down for whatever reason but that’s it

[prisma kraken]

yeah, the real issue is aluminum is such a complicated process that you're pulling in resources via truck/train/drone and if any of those things hiccups, everything goes out-of-kilter

[dusky bronze]

But awesome sinks at the end of every important belt to get rid of overflow fixes that

[prisma kraken]

yeah, sometimes though it isn't just the output sinks but the fact that you're pulling in silica from quartz purification which is pulling in limestone via truck and the truck runs out of fuel or some such

[timber python]

I do that anyways. And conveyor throughput sensors before the sinks so i know how much excess i have of something at a glance.

[prisma kraken]

what Cobalt is advocating is a better way overall unless you really know what you're doing, and even then, you'll be flushing pipes when things inevitably do something unexpected

train deadlocks are another thing that'll just screw ya over

[dusky bronze]

I dare say it’s inevitable you’ll run into piping issues that’ll slow the thing down either way but those are issues that will happen with both methods if you don’t know what you’re doing

[timber python]

Yeah its just conveyors.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i think in just about every playthrough i've done, sometime in phase 4 the factory reaches a critical mass where you spend about a week just running around slapping bandaids on things

just the nature of complexity and interdependency

[timber python]

Blueprint for bringing ores to factory

[dusky bronze]

I hope you plan to put lots beside each other

[plain slate]

Im praying this works so badly

[dusky bronze]

A single big stack of belts is gonna look horrendous

[plain slate]

I think it looks pretty cool ngl

[dusky bronze]

The wider the better imo

Why make it 1x6 when I can make it 3x2

[prisma kraken]

i just use one steel belt

[timber python]

Well, for now im gonna be busy setting up iron and copper processing anyways. Ill need some heavy frames which i havent made yet, what i found brought me all the way up here to bauxite processing

[prisma kraken]

that's what i'm working on. its a project 😄

the thing that always kills me with hmf's is rounding up the concrete

[timber python]

ill be building it from the ground up. Iron and copper ore. I have the pure recipes for them now, so my grassy hills factory, ill still take occasional materials from, while here out over the western ocean im building my new factory

[prisma kraken]

yeah, the pure recipes aren't all they're cracked up to be for iron & copper

the alloy recipes are quite a lot nicer

[timber python]

Those are really helpful when you have more of one than the other while having an excess of the other i suppose. Anyways, heres my line of pure iron refineries

Those should spit out about 1365. A bit less i think, the last is going to be only partially utilised iirc, once its running ill see.

Well actually i know, just not from the top of my head

Oh, right. 1337 Iron ingots and a decimal.

But i also unlocked diluted fuel, will boost my energy production for now really.

[spiral void]

does anyone have a suggestion for an alternative to modeler? I'm trying to plan out my nuclear plant and keep getting stuck on a broken diagram that only puts out zeroes or tries to calculate itself forever

[meager kettle]

pen and paper :p

[wind spade]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/

[spiral void]

I've tried, but it tells me it can't calculate any result if I add plutonium or ficsonium fuel rods, even with all recipes/machines enabled 😔

[wind spade]

Need to add waste as input

[frosty owl]

Sounds like you didn't "build" the plan correctly ^^
As you probably noticed with SFTools, already, each planner has its "quirks" for you to learn

[spiral void]

I've been reworking it for a couple of weeks and it either borks or needs more SAM than is available or than I want to spend

[frosty owl]

Modeler also has multiple calculation methods, so things can get a tad confusing on that side

[frosty owl]

If you share screenshots of the parts giving you issues, we might be able to help you correcting them (assuming there actually are issues) ^^

[spiral void]

I can make microadjustments and rebalance sloops all I want, but that's not going to prevent it from needing a very specific mix of recipes to sort itself out properly

[spiral void]

it calculates properly if I disconnect the splurger merging all of the dark matter residue outputs from the splurger merging all of the dark matter residue inputs. I'm trying to use other recipes to hopefully balance it out properly (which would also help feed the currently disconnected alien power matrix factory, and is an experiment), but that one connection is keeping me from having a workable plan

at this point I'm trying to get it to output the waste values so I can try again in SFTools, but the process up until now has been to change something, let it run overnight, and if it's still calculating in the morning decide it's incalculable and try something else

do I need a threadripper? /j

[frosty owl]

... You normally don't need to wait more than a few seconds got the planner to spot out a solution, so there's definetly points of improvements xD

It sounds like you may be using the "full" simulation mode?

[spiral void]

if that's the calculator option under general settings, yes x.x

[frosty owl]

I don't recall the name, but I'm referring to the third simulation mode on the list, the most expansive one

I suggest swapping to the second on the list ("manual" iirc).
It still does tons of calculations, but needs more user input and removes a lot of possible "calculation loops" that can stump the other simulation mode

[spiral void]

that fixed it instantly. thanks 😭

[frosty owl]

Finally, if all issues aren't magically fixed with just that, you can try taking some screenshots of the parts of the plan that don't work as you want them to and we can work on those

[frosty owl]

Pro-tip (only useful with "manual" simulation mode though): you can connect a storage containers to a splurger (connecting them to low-priority input input and Overflow output) and use them as a way to check for excess/deficiencies in inputs and outputs.

Eg: if the nodes fed by the splurger lack Dark Matter, they'll "pull" it from the input Storage, which will show "-X Dark Matter/min" (so you know how much you're missing); conversely, if you're making too much, the planner will push excess to the output container, showing you how much excess you have without affecting the other production nodes...

[spiral void]

I've been doing that in less workable ways with splurgers and depots, so that'll help a lot here. I can definitely keep working on it now. tysm >w<

[spiral void]

both of these tools are going to take some tweaking to get a workable result, but I'm no longer looking at a brick wall xwx

sorry, I forgot to remove the response bit :(

[frosty owl]

Tools tend to work better/be easier to use when you're not trying to add many details or use different recipes in your production plan
On the other hand, over a certain level of detail or complexity of recipes choice, Modeler can get you to the solution faster (even becoming the only choice in extreme situations)

[spiral void]

I'm trying to use all of the uranium ore and not sink any of the plutonium rods. the current 12213.5 bauxite/m out of 12300 possible bauxite is kinda scary, and I was suggested power shard encoders as a more efficient way to make dark matter residue (still testing, though that would feed the alien power matrix factory), but I can probably work the two out between tools and modeler and reduce the resource inputs to workable values with careful slooping (30 of which are already reserved for augmenters x.x)

@wind spade can I make a request? 👉👈

[frosty owl]

With Sloops you should have enough SAM to convert all Plutonium Waste into Ficsonium (so long as you make the least amount of Plutonium Rods that you can make from the Uranium Waste you have), but still... It's a lot of SAM 😅

[wind spade]

Which one?

[frosty owl]

I'm personally planning to convert just 600 Uranium all the way into Ficsonium. Anymore nuclear will get the Plutonium-sinking treatment

[spiral void]

I posted in the suggestions chat of your server. I'm hoping it isn't too much, given how complicated coding can be and how complicated this game already is

[meager kettle]

sloop the ficsite ingots to cut down both on aluminium ingots and sam ore

[prisma kraken]

i've mathed out a lot of this and where you want the sloops, unfortunately, is in the ffr encoders to kick out double the DMR (and fics rods!)

when you do so, the DMR needed for the ikea lamps is the same as what the rod step makes. if you don't do this, you run out of sam

at 4 sloops per encoder, you're looking at a max of 25 encoders you can support

technically you can support 26 if you don't research sloop scanning

[frosty owl]

You should be able to boil it down to "SAM saved per Sloop" for easy comparisons

[prisma kraken]

the thing is that you end up in a choice as to what endgame power source you want, and going all-in on one and then seeing whatever's leftover probably makes the most sense. all-in on APA's & matrixes will give you 4x the power of everything else, all-in on fics rods will double what plut power your making, all in on ion fuel, ehh, i don't see a really compelling story there.

tangibly, the 4x power from the APA's is probably the best you'll do

[meager kettle]

Slooping the ficsonium rods doesn't really reduce Sam cost a whole lot. You wanna sloop the ficsite ingots

[prisma kraken]

when you are looking at a steep dmr deficit and need to make it with converters, it does reduce sam

[meager kettle]

Didn't say it doesn't reduce. Said it doesn't reduce much

Compared to saving 6000 sam ore/min with the ingots

And 3000 alu ingots

[prisma kraken]

you're not looking at the full picture

it isn't about making things less expensive, its about fitting everything you need into the available resources. peephole optimizations of 'this is cheaper than this' don't get you there.

[meager kettle]

i've done the math, and i've build the thing

[prisma kraken]

ok

[meager kettle]

regardless which refinement path you take on plutonium, you will end needing more sam ore thats available on the map

slooping the ficsite ingot step will reduce the sam need the most

now you can do ficsonium rods also

without sloops the ingots need ~12000 sam ore, and the rods need ~4500 sam ore. sloopign ingots costs 20 sloops, reduces it to 6000 sam ore. slooping rods takes ~72 sloops and reduces it down with 4500 sam ore

[ashen forge]

my generators havent quite manifolded out properly yet however my power boost alone is higher than my consumption

[orchid brook]

Do you think there should be more SAM on the map or at least a very very expensive way to make it? I feel like in big saves it would be helpful and if you aren't going very big then just don't use it

[meager kettle]

you can make more sam with the all pure setting :p

[orchid brook]

Like it would be very nice cuz i think if you make a maxed out nuclear plant going all the way to ficsinuim the amount of SAM used is so much it only leaves a bit for other stuff and also I know you can sloops

[meager kettle]

and using sloops on every step involving it

[orchid brook]

It kinda feels limiting like sloops are these very OP iteams meant to used on everything not just for SAM the 2 feel like they are meant for each other

I know the point I am making is kinda "vage"

An option for detecated people would be nice

[meager kettle]

you have options, game modes. all pure, rng - advanced materials

[orchid brook]

Like using idk a phase 5 iteam + like nuclear pasta to make SAM

[orchid brook]

That changes the entire world not just SAM

[meager kettle]

yes, but you will have more sam

you can also edit nodes in scim

[orchid brook]

Wait what? New info lol

Meh idk it's just an idea

[meager kettle]

well if you wanna change something, you have options to do it, its your game, play it as you like :p

[vast coral]

I followed this. Top right

[dapper drum]

How below 100 are we? Is anything backing up?

[vast coral]

The top left refinery of the 6 is the only one to get fresh water. The other two are using recyled water from the 3 on the right side.

[oblique hollow]

why is the refiner that gets fresh water stalling

[vast coral]

50, 30, and 42% ._.

[dapper drum]

Do you need to merge the alumina solutions together?

[vast coral]

No

wait. fuck I am suppose to

[oblique hollow]

merging alumina helps with distribution

[dapper drum]

In that diagram it says yes

[oblique hollow]

technically should work out numbers wise though if not merged

[dapper drum]

And to McG's point, is alumina backing up in the fresh water refinery?

[vast coral]

that might be why its all being so dumb .-.

Not at all.

[dapper drum]

Or is it short on water

[vast coral]

it was full sending cause it was straight connected to the first refinery

[oblique hollow]

why is this one stalling

[vast coral]

because that example pic is from my "left over" set.

[dapper drum]

Also BTW side note love the color coding both as design and helps so much in these situations

[vast coral]

I just wanted to show how everything is connected.
That set is just there getting the remains from the 6 previous sets.

[oblique hollow]

then send a more recent image of the actual refineries

like, which refineries ARE stalling?

[vast coral]

First I am gonna connect all the alumina solutions

I straight piped each one

[dapper drum]

I agree that theoretically the numbers should work out but...

[oblique hollow]

in practice, a set like this will stall for a long time because it takes forever for enough water to accumulate to run the other 2 refineries

assuming you dont have too much water

[dapper drum]

Correct

I usually sloop the water to give it an initial boost

Let it fill the pipes like wild then yank the sloops

[oblique hollow]

i usually just dont care and let it sort itself out

[dapper drum]

That's also valid

[oblique hollow]

I know it will work once it sorted itself out

and the stalling is just for some time

might be 30 minutes but whatever

[dapper drum]

Im too anxiety driven for that. I gotta see it working fully before I can walk away

No matter how many times I did the math

[vast coral]

I gotta wait now

I am sinking all the scrap currently just to see if the refineries will sort themselves out

[dapper drum]

Good idea

[oblique hollow]

you should always be sinking the scrap. or consuming it

if the refineries dont run, especially the ones that use the alumina from the recycled water refineries, you WILL lock up on water

[vast coral]

recyled water is still bottlenecking somehow ._.

[oblique hollow]

too much water?

[vast coral]

ya

[oblique hollow]

This ties into the previous question: have you NOT been sinking all the scrap this entire time?

[vast coral]

s

its been sinking constantly

im gonna try flushing each water pipe set

[oblique hollow]

what % overclock are these refineries

[vast coral]

250 250 125
250 250 125

[oblique hollow]

that is more than 600/min water

you cannot pipe this with one mk 2 pipe

[vast coral]

I HATE THIS GAME

MY FUCK THAT IS THE ISSUE

[oblique hollow]

why didnt you check this beforehand

[vast coral]

I keep forgetting pipes are only 600.

[oblique hollow]

just add a second pipe

[vast coral]

how though

[oblique hollow]

you just connect it around the other side

[vast coral]

I can make a 600 pipe, and a 150

but one refinery takes 500, and the other 250

[oblique hollow]

it will sort itself out

you basically make a big pipe "loop" for the byproduct water

that goes both sides around the refineries

that way, no "side" will move more than 375/min water

[vast coral]

im confused by this pic

I think its all sorted now...efficiency is going back up

[oblique hollow]

you just an another pipe, but going around the other side

and it connects to the junctions near the input of the refineries that only get byproduct water

[vast coral]

ignore the clipping ;-; gotta readjust things now

but you are saying this is gonna work? fluids are weird as hell

it works...what the actual hell are fluids man

[ionic sapphire]

theyre ass

[oblique hollow]

it works because the fluid rate gets split along both pipes

so instead of forcing 750/min through a 600/min pipe (and failing), you now force it through 2 pipes
so it gets halved

[vast coral]

fluids feel so realistic

[oblique hollow]

Junctions are splitters and mergers

[vast coral]

Like maybe that is just how you gotta imagine it?

[oblique hollow]

its a bit more realistic than most other pipes you'll find elsewhere

but the main magic trick here really is that the junction can split and merge at the same time

so you effectively just split the flow in half on one end and then recombine it on the other end

[vast coral]

it no worky-

I am still backlogging on recyle water .-.

[oblique hollow]

flush

[vast coral]

I did

[oblique hollow]

also the alumina?

if water backs up, so does alumina

if alumina doesnt get cleared, water issue stays bad

[vast coral]

the solution is holding fine

im so fucking over this

im belting in limestone and just sinking wet concrete.

[oblique hollow]

or just grab a coal gen

[vast coral]

using recyled water is way to much hassle for this bullshit

[oblique hollow]

you already have coal

[vast coral]

not any to spare

[oblique hollow]

DM me the save file while you are at it and i'll take a look

[vast coral]

no ;-;

my world is a mess and I don't want to share that

I am flushing my entire systems and belts and do like a full reset

[oblique hollow]

i dont care about messes, ive seen absolute messes and still looked at it to figure out pipe issues

Its just what i do

but if you arent comfortable thats fine

[prisma kraken]

the other solution that disposes of water which often requires less belting is to burn it in coal power planets.

[oblique hollow]

they dont have excess coal available

they already said that

[vast coral]

starting to think my best option is to redo this entire factory >.>

belting in like 8k limestone is a bitch

[prisma kraken]

coke can also be used, but i'm not paying too much attention 😛

[fallow cove]

i don't think that's good

[wild atlas]

whats the ratio on the standard turbofuel recipe?

because my refineries are making 1200 units per minute but the turbofuel recipe is so awkward for per minute

[prisma kraken]

everything involving fuel makes more sense when you go up to a size 9x what you actually want to build

[median heath]

Which Fuel recipe are you using?

Because Fuel : Turbo on the base Turbo recipe is just 6 : 5

[wild atlas]

tyty

[median heath]

FFR -- if you open it in the codex, it shows the "per minute" numbers, but it also shows the "per cycle" numbers, which give you the ratio.

[molten saffron]

genuinely how am i supposed to deal with this

routing my waste into plutonium; making 450 pellets/min would be 36 plutonium cell assemblers

[vapid gorge]

I don’t understand the problem?

[molten saffron]

absurd amount of machines

[vapid gorge]

Build a smaller system
Or overclock

36 assemblers really isn’t much though

Do it on multiple floors if you like

Compacts things a lot

[molten saffron]

the beltwork haunts me

[vapid gorge]

You have mk5 belts by now. You could do it with 1 belt for pellets

You could probably sushi it if you wanted to

[vapid gorge]

Hell, just have 1 machine making pellets feed a few assemblers

Make multiple groups of them

[molten saffron]

hmm

it is 1:6

[sacred latch]

Are there any better websites for mapping out stuff than satisfactory calculator?

[prisma kraken]

scim is the only game in town afaik

i find the in-game map pretty good once you have the map covered in radio towers

[ionic meadow]

So, as far as I've seen it, efficiency is basically machine uptime, right? The amount of time it's actually running and outputting, for example, a smelter that smelts 60 ingots per minute only smelt 30, that would be 50% uptime, or 50 efficiency. Right? RIGHT?

What I want to do is basically just overload all of my machines with resources for 100% efficiency?

[prisma kraken]

they also pause if their output backs up

[ionic meadow]

God damnit

So I technically want to keep my machines at 50% capacity then? So they always have material but always have space for more input?

With that I can get my stuff to not back up

Or maybe I can just spam storage

[prisma kraken]

or just plan and math correctly

[vapid gorge]

Do you mean factory plans? Satisfactory tools has a much better UI

If you mean actual map, then not really

[meager kettle]

100% uptime is easily done by having in = out. if you can't make the numbers add up, then overflow sink solves it

[sacred latch]

Yea

Like for planning production lines

[frosty owl]

Googling "Satisfactory caclulator" or "Satisfsctory planner" should bring up more results, but the most widely used atm are SFTools and Satisfsctory Modeler

[ionic sapphire]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/production-planner
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/
https://factoriolab.github.io/sfy?v=11
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3187030/Satisfactory_Modeler/

[sacred latch]

Ight thank you

[sacred latch]

Thank you

[vapid gorge]

@lapis osprey

[robust tulip]

any reason in particular why this sushi belt keeps on getting jammed up?

it is well within the item/min limit that a mk4 conveyor can move

[vapid gorge]

is the end overflowed to a sink?

[robust tulip]

82.5 concrete + 135 steel pipes + 37.5 encased steel beam + 30 modular frames = a number that i cba calculating but it is definatley less than 480

[robust tulip]

i was told that was unneeded if the input numbers are just right, which i have duodecuple checked

[vapid gorge]

you hve to over flow to the sink until the system balances out

[robust tulip]

ive done it before but i almost immediately stopped it because it was bleeding A LOT of items

[ionic sapphire]

is it ratiod correctly

[vapid gorge]

is each of yoru splitter a smart splitter set to ITEM and then overflow forward?

[robust tulip]

i thought this works

[vapid gorge]

no, one end over flow, 1 ITEM

[robust tulip]

ratiod?

[vapid gorge]

at every smart splitter

set an awesome sink at the end of hte system, reset all teh smart splitters to ITEM and Overflow

[robust tulip]

it's like this at the very end (the red conveyor belt you see leads to the sink)

[vapid gorge]

ok you still need to change the rest as mentioned

[meager kettle]

Middle should be any undefined (and overflow with a programmable)

[vapid gorge]

You only need over flow
do not use any undefined

[robust tulip]

do i gotta use programmables?

[vapid gorge]

no not at all

[robust tulip]

i could unlock and remake my whole factory to use em in theory but it would be a massive pain to do

[vapid gorge]

this is a basic sushi belt

[meager kettle]

Believe they more reliable from convos I've seen since you can set any undefined and overflow on same port.

[vapid gorge]

Every smart splitter
ITEM and Overflow forward,
final overflow to sink until it balances out

that's it

any undefined doesnt help

[robust tulip]

does that mean i gotta reset any for these ones?

[vapid gorge]

over flow already send anything not going to the side forward

[vapid gorge]

yes the one going forward needs over flow

if you put ANY then the ports don't fill up and you get clogs later on

[robust tulip]

these are set up for assemblers

[robust tulip]

kk

[vapid gorge]

the way basic sushi lines work is the first slots get filled up first and THEN over flows

otherwise the whole thing clogs

now there's things called sushi load balancing, or single input sushi belts, but those are different set ups

[robust tulip]

its set up like so

[vapid gorge]

seems fine

[robust tulip]

personally, i quite like the idea

[vapid gorge]

yeah sushi can be very convenient

[robust tulip]

so kinda like manifold?

just more streamlined?

[vapid gorge]

I mean it is a manifold. Just a sushi manifold

[robust tulip]

i see

[vapid gorge]

more 'stream lined' I think depends on persepctive.

if you have any given system, if you make it sushi you'll probably need multiple manifolds but smaller since you're putting al lthe throughput on one belt

where as you could have 1 bigger manifolds with multiple belts for each item

it's often much more tidy ? especially with manufacturers?

really just up to personal preferences

[robust tulip]

well waht i meant by "streamlined" is that the first slot gets 50% of the items, the second gets 25%, third gets 12.5%, fourth gets 6.25%...

i dont really like that because it takes FOREVER for the first slot to fill, especially if it is a high-stack item like wire

[vapid gorge]

ehhh on a normal manifold that just speeds up the spin up time.
Which is kinda meaningless because you're not just going to stand around and wait for it to spin up, you go do other things

[robust tulip]

it is streamlined bc slot 1 gets 100%, then slot 2 gets 100%, then slot 3 gets 100%...

[unique cypress]

First machine is always the fastest to fill

It's the 3rd to last one that takes the longest

It's a bit faster if you use smart splitters to fill one at a time

[robust tulip]

yah but i like to watch the brainchild that is my factory come to life

gives me a sense of pride

[robust tulip]

3rd last???

[robust tulip]

that's my point - even then, you gotta wait for all the other machines after that

[vapid gorge]

hand fill them, or literally just build another section of factory or explore instead of waiting 10 minutes staring at a screen

[unique cypress]

The farther down the manifold you are, the slower it is to fill
But the last two don't have to be filled, once they start getting full flow, they're running at 100%
So the 3rd from the end is the slowest

[robust tulip]

oh okay

[frosty owl]

Tiny disadvantage of smart manifolds: they need to fill the second-last machine too before the last machine can run

[unique cypress]

they don't actually
you can just use a normal splitter for the last one
and it's gonna be like 30-60% faster, depending on the length

[frosty owl]

Yeah, but then it's not "just" a smart manifold.
Ie: if sushi is running through, you might need to add a separate overflow belt before any normal splitters are used

[ionic sapphire]

can a belt ever stop rotating in this game ?

or well, the items on the belt

when youre feeding a sushi loop for example

[frosty owl]

If you have a loop, items should keep going along the loop forever (though, this may lead to a stall of machines connected to it, if no items are consumed and no new items can make it into the loop)
But if there's not, then the belts can back up whenever overflow isn't managed

[median heath]

But... but... prefeed?

[ionic meadow]

I really didn't know you could make sushi belts in satisfactory

[robust tulip]

using that system, the merged belt breifly stutters for a fraction of a second every time an item goes in. is that normal?

[median heath]

Smart splitters are a pathway to many abilities some consider "unnatural."

[vapid gorge]

might be just visual , the way you check is if the producers are backing up. Might need to still let it overflow to teh sink more

[robust tulip]

i dont think it matters due to the max throughput of the conveyors being so much greater than the actual throughput

[vapid gorge]

still a good idea to visually check your producers , you might have a sneaky low mk belt hidden somewhere

[frail cradle]

Why don't they work?

im using this recipe

[vapid gorge]

take some images using photomode, P , in the day light, hard to see here

[median heath]

Problem A

[vapid gorge]

I mean yeah valves but really need better lit images and angles overall

[frail cradle]

I'll come later, I have something to do. Sorry

[median heath]

I'm guessing valves + no looping is the root of it all.

[vapid gorge]

likely. I'm going to bed shortly though, if they get some better images maybe you can give them a few pointers

[robust tulip]

im confused

[ionic sapphire]

hi confused im dad

[robust tulip]

how do i get 225 pipes to go west (the direaction that im directly facing) and 135 to go the other way (where there isnt any concrete)

do i gotta use programmable splitters for this?

[ionic sapphire]

you could build a rate limiter

[robust tulip]

how would i go about that?

[ionic sapphire]

or well, balancer

[robust tulip]

oh damn

is there a way to create those kinds of flowcharts?

like a software or something?

it would be really useful

[median heath]

What are your splitter settings?

[robust tulip]

it was just a smart splitter that had any going the direction of the pipes and concrete and steel pipes going the direction of just the steel pipes, but it doesnt matter now bercause ive torn it down in favor of a subterranian load balancer

[median heath]

Ok well, next time, if you actually want to fix it, ping me. 💛

[robust tulip]

hmm?

"actually want to fix it"?

is there something wrong with load balancers?

i just assumed it was the only way

[median heath]

No. I'm saying I understand how smarts and poggers work fully because I use them more than I use regular splitters.

So depending on what exactly you wanted, it may very well have been possible with 1 splitter instead of needing to build an entire balancer.

[robust tulip]

well tbh im not ecstatic about making an underground system

i kinda liked the idea of making it a complex system of conveyors that you can all see at once, so hiding a portion of it kinda ruins it

so if youve got an alternative, throw it my way

would a top-down view of the surrounding area help?

[median heath]

So you had "Any" as the west setting and "Pipes" as the forward setting?

[robust tulip]

correct

[median heath]

And what were you trying to accomplish with the split exactly?

[median heath]

I don't know how to read that.

[meager kettle]

225 pipes to encased beams, 135 pipes to encased frames

[ionic sapphire]

you could also have 11.5 machines going to the 225
and 9.5 to the 135
tho, probably less reliable
and still in need of a rate limiter

[median heath]

And the Concrete part?

[robust tulip]

the left part of the box is the input and the right edge is the output

and the number is the amount of machines i need

[median heath]

Tools is so much easier...

[robust tulip]

do you want me to try to recreate it in tools?

would that help?

[median heath]

No, I'm just grasping the whole thing.

So you want a 225/135 split of Pipes AND all the Concrete going only 1 way?

Or are you trying to split the Concrete too?

[median heath]

Because you can do this easily with a smart or pogger.

[robust tulip]

that was surprisingly easy

mabye i should switch to tools

hold on

i think a bird's eye screenshot would help both of us out

[median heath]

Nope, just 2 things.

1: Yes, switch.
2: Does the Concrete need to split too or can it all just go one way?

@robust tulip

[robust tulip]

the concrete needs to also go to the encased industrial beam, but i just put in a splitter at the very front of the factory so you dont need to worry about it

[median heath]

Huh?

Simple yes/no:
At the specific splitter in the first screenshot, does the Concrete need to split?

[robust tulip]

no

[median heath]

Ok. The north direction that needs just pipes -- is that a sushi line at the machines or is it just pipes going directly into the inputs?

[robust tulip]

it is a sushi line

[median heath]

Then yeah, what you want isn't possible in a simple fashion at that location.
You need to split the pipes before adding the Concrete and then have both lines running the amount the need to have.

If the end point of the pipe-only split is mono, you can do what you're trying to at that location.

[robust tulip]

it goes onto a belt with a modular frame belt (MF = blue, SP = brown)

[robust tulip]

so i am guessing that i cannot keep this system in place? @median heath

[median heath]

You cannot do this unless the north-bound line stays mono.

[robust tulip]

what does "mono" mean in this context?

[median heath]

"not sushi"

[robust tulip]

so all of this would be rendered useless?

[robust tulip]

@median heath

[median heath]

Again -- it is all dependent on the north-bound line.

If you want pure sushi, you need to go all the way back to where you split the Concrete, split the pipes there, and combine both lines at that point to make them exactly what it is needed.

[unique cypress]

this is a ratio splitter, not a balancer
a balancer with 1 input and 2 outputs is just a single splitter

[ionic sapphire]

rate limiter :3

[frail cradle]

The valves were missing. I added them because the system was malfunctioning.

[median heath]

Valves are for decoration only.

[frail cradle]

I'm trying to generate 144 kW of energy from 600 crude oil. But the pipes aren't working properly.

[median heath]

144 kW wouldn't even power a Constructor...

[frail cradle]

i have 576 generator

[median heath]

Are you confusing kW with MW?

[frail cradle]

sorry i am confusing

[median heath]

Or, given 576 Fuel Gens --- GW?

[frail cradle]

144000MW

[median heath]

No.

[median heath]

576 Fuel gens at 100% clock speed is 144 GW, or 144,000 MW.

In kW that is 144,000,000.

[frail cradle]

sometimes 2 rafineries dont work. Could you help me?

[median heath]

Well, we can go back to this:

I'm guessing valves + no looping is the root of it all.

Because the "no looping" is the issue.

[frail cradle]

I removed the valves

[median heath]

Because the "no looping" is the issue.

[frail cradle]

what does it mean looping issue?

[median heath]

See how this is a straight line?

Line =/= Loop

[frail cradle]

Should I raise the pipes 1-2 meters higher?

[median heath]

Pretend these generators are Refineries:

LOOP as in circular.

As in not a straight line.

You need the 🇴 so the fluid can move around.

Instead of hitting the end of a straight line and slosh backwards.

[frail cradle]

I think I understand. I need to draw a second line from the top and connect them. right?

[median heath]

That is one way, yes.
The point is to never think about pipes in terms of belts, because they are not.

Fluid needs places to go so it doesn't back-pressure itself.

[frail cradle]

That's why I added a valve.

[median heath]

Valves do not prevent backpressure.

They are for decoration only.

[frail cradle]

Thanks. I didn't know that. ♥

[median heath]

💛

[prisma kraken]

technically they do functionally do stuff, but the stuff they do only ever causes problems

[frail cradle]

Hopefully they'll fix this in the 1.3 update. :D

[prisma kraken]

looping the pipes helps in your case, but having built similar to use a full 600 oil, i find that if you use 8 refineries at 250% instead of 20 at 100%, you don't have the same sloshing effect

i also like raising my pipes up 2 meters so that the machine split-offs are downhill

(also increases walkability)

[wind spade]

It's not really a bug tho

[slender kelp]

hate to intrude but is this setup necessary? i always just did the single pipeline with a junction, is it an efficiency thing or something else?

[median heath]

How much are you trying to shove down a single pipe?

[frail cradle]

Here, I didn't need to use any pump to transport the turbo fuel. Is this a bug or not?

[meager kettle]

you can somewhat brute force with a pump if you dont wanna loop, but looping does remove the bigger pain point

[slender kelp]

i think 600 but ill have to double check

i know its upwards of 400

[median heath]

Then yes, loop.
If 400, you're fine.

[slender kelp]

ah ok ty

[frail cradle]

is it correct?

[vapid gorge]

that could work, definitely not the most stable design though

[robust tulip]

wait they're purely cosmetic?

i never really played around with em but i assumed they could cut off certain pipelines or something like that

kinda like a power switch but for fluids instead of power

[median heath]

They are akin to buffers.
They either cause issues or do nothing.

So their use-case is cosmetic.

Buffers, however, do have an actual use in train logistics.

[median heath]

If you want to be in charge of manually opening/closing them. Sure? But treat them like an on/off switch and either fully close or fully open them.

[robust tulip]

i thought buffers were cool

[median heath]

They are cool.
Cosmetically.

[robust tulip]

they're obviously supposed to be the fluid counterpart to storage units

and storage units are like top 5 most useful non-production/non-power buildings in the game

[median heath]

Storage units also have a function in train logistics. 😁

Buffers have the same use in terms of end-storage of fluid if you want to go that route.

In both cases the IFB and the ISC should not be in your production lines.

[robust tulip]

ig storage units are kinda better because i put them behind DDs

because i'm not going to be constantly using up every item type in my DDs

[median heath]

I think we define behind/in front in completely opposing ways 😂

[robust tulip]

oh right good point lol

[median heath]

Anyway it is past midnight so I would like to sleep 😭

[robust tulip]

ok goodnight

[median heath]

💛

[robust tulip]

it has been a while since you've been up, considering i've had a whole sleep between this convo and our last convo about load balancers

[prisma kraken]

on the subject of valves, they do what is advertised, but clamp flows to a % of what is currently flowing, so when the pipe isn't at max fill, they clamp flows lower than you expect and that causes worlds of problems. Additionally, the flow setting on the valve is rather imprecise so rarely, if ever do they do the right thing

[robust tulip]

imprecise?

i always assumed all valves in this game were perfectly as advertised

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'm a little sketchy on the details of what the code does, but it represents the flow as x/256's of 300 or 600 which just doesn't have enough precision

they'll work if you're using them as an on/off switch for a lbf power plant or similar, but really they can't be used to meter wastewater or help fuel manifolds

[robust tulip]

oh shoot

[robust tulip]

i'm not amazing with computers, but could they not simply change that to x/512 or even x/1024 to make it precise?

[prisma kraken]

you'd have to ask the devs for specifics

my guess is that there's some tradeoffs they've made to make the simulation fast and that is one of them

[robust tulip]

true

that kinda sucks, they seem like they could be a powerful tool if they did as advertised

[prisma kraken]

anyway, the game would be better off if they removed the buildable

[robust tulip]

the buildable?

the buildable what?

[prisma kraken]

the valve is a buildable

an item you can build, lol

[robust tulip]

oh i see what you mean

imo i think it would be better if they made it just an on/off switch

[prisma kraken]

yeah, but i can really only think of a few use-cases for that

the most useful of which is a liquid biofuel power plant, and that isn't super-useful

[robust tulip]

i've never made one myself, but i guess if you REALLY needed a moderate amount of power (~1,500MW) for a few minutes, you could use it

[wind spade]

afaik that was changed, but that wasn't always the biggest problem valves have either

[prisma kraken]

yeah, well, i'm not going there any time soon

i've heard mixed reports about all of that, and well, just don't use them, lol

[wind spade]

they kinda do what they advertise, but they don't really have any reasonable use

[robust tulip]

counterpoint: i fw the green colour it has

[prisma kraken]

i'm sure there is some situation where they can actually be of use somewhere. there most likely is some unit test in the game that verifies their function for something

[robust tulip]

ig it might be attractive to a new player that's experimenting

i think it would be cool if turbo-late game there was a way to reliably and automatically make biofuel

[prisma kraken]

there kind of is

[robust tulip]

there is?

[wind spade]

valves do what they should (let flow pass only in one direction, limit the flow)

the problem is:

• limiting flow in one direction would be great, if you could apply it globally on all pipes. But since only valves can do it, any pipe section can still have fluid flowing backwards, which can cause issues if handled improperly
• limiting amount of fluid in a pipe could be great... if machines didn't already do that. You can hook a full 600 pipe to a machine and it will only take what it needs, so no reason to add valve for it

[prisma kraken]

critter bits turn into a crazy amount of biomass

[robust tulip]

yeah ik

i can kill like 10 and it fuels my jetpack for hours and hours

[prisma kraken]

i've honestly been thinking about that in my current run using 5x power cost

[robust tulip]

true

[robust tulip]

sounds brutal

assemblers costing 275MW sounds like hell

[prisma kraken]

*manufacturers

i've got 10 APA's running which give me 2x the power output. besides that, you're building power more frequently and prefering high-yield builds over ones that seem good but cost a lot. besides that, you play some games with clocking things down. all in all, it isn't too bad, but progress is slow

[prisma kraken]

you know, the game really needs a better item counter

[meager kettle]

be nice with one which could do low thruput :p

[plush plover]

is this good for a oil energie production ?

or should i rework it ?

[livid tangle]

hello I am kinda new to the game, would you take the time to explain me what app is this, or if it's a known technical thing that i can google to to find out how it works and learn about it?

[plush plover]

the ap is satisfactory modeler on steam and you can use it to optimise your factories but there is alot of web site that do pretty much the same

and here in my screen i basically made a oil energie prob but to be honest i don't really know if it really optimal like that ^^'

[livid tangle]

isn't this technic an ingenerring stuff?

[plush plover]

not really it's more like that make the math in the game easier

[livid tangle]

ok ok thanks for your time 😄

[plush plover]

np ^^

[vapid gorge]

no idea it's got no lables on any of the recipes or what you're doing

[vapid gorge]

I highly recommend this planner - you can create a whole plan in literally 2 seconds https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=xhWH6Y0bk1ay2RgoorZd

[plush plover]

wait wait what ? i didn't understood you meant which craft i used ??

[vapid gorge]

there's zero lables on any of the recipes you're using and it's a spaghetti mess

[plush plover]

oh i see

[vapid gorge]

that planner is shockingly bad for asking questions or trying to convey information

[plush plover]

hmm so satisfactory modeler isn't that good :/

[vapid gorge]

It takes ages to do anything and you can't relaly read it

you seem to be trying to make 1200 rf? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=7JrBWONJtOQcJeil5m7H

not sure if these are the recipes you're using

literally just put it together now though

ah wait , I was using SAM

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=2a0AgFqv57kJqCg5E4Dh

here we go

changed the whole chain in 2 clicks

[plush plover]

this one i should use or the last one for a oil energie prod ?

[limpid vapor]

use the one without SAM

[plush plover]

k ty

[vapid gorge]

you just have to turn off SAM as the conversion recipes are considered base recipes

[wind spade]

well... they are

[vapid gorge]

I know. It's just annoying.

[wind spade]

not really much to do when the two categories you work with is "alt" and "non-alt"

[vapid gorge]

yup. it'd just be convenient to have them in in a different category. I don't know anyone who uses them much. Thankfully I haven't had to do much with SAM planning and having to turn them off manually

[cedar folio]

Even thought they are base recipes, it would be nice to have them off by default like the alts.

[prisma kraken]

typically, i do blended tf/rf like this; what you do with the compacted coal afterward is a separate question

i find with that build, if you instead do it in 3 sections taking 200 sulfur+300 crude (and clock things acordingly), you end up with a much more easy to build factory that allows you to take down sections for maintainence/upgrade

[ocean needle]

Thoughts on this phase 3 dessert factory?

I also have the Turbo Heavy Fuel alt recipe to turn the byproduct fuel into T-Fuel

[oblique hollow]

but that needs heavy oil, not fuel

[ocean needle]

Instead of Residual fuel I will use Turbo Heavy Fuel

[marsh bear]

Hi guys, just started playing. This is my first factory game and I am loving it. I am on phase 2 of the space elevator. Generally speaking, what output ratio do I want between reinforced plates, rotors and modular frames? I cannot tell how best to balance them based on what is to come... 1:1:1? 4:2:1?

[ionic sapphire]

then just do the best with the info you have right now

most people wont have this info either

[oblique hollow]

you can do whatever ratio you want really.
Once you have uses for those parts, THEN you can figure out if you need a new factory for those parts

if you have no other uses other than for personal use, then theres no general ration that you can really aim for, like Henir said

[marsh bear]

I am overthinking this, huh... by the time the ratio no longer matters my current output will be outscaled by the future unlocks, wont it

[ionic sapphire]

its kind of an issue of how fast can you expand

[oblique hollow]

by the time you get future unlocks that require those parts you will likely also have better ways to build factories

as you said, you wont know in which ratio you will need them

and once you need more parts, just build a factory for those parts.
Its not that hard really.

investing more time now might not be worth it because there sure are other things for you to automate that are more important

[prisma kraken]

my general strategy is to look at what rate satisfies the next stage of product and overproduce by a bit for building material, belting into that next production line and overflowing to sink/storage

(often i spend some time tweaking numbers in design to make that work and become easier to build)

[marsh bear]

Alright I will see how 1:2:2 does for now, ty

[prisma kraken]

later in phase 3, you unlock a better recipe chain for rips and they end up going mostly toward mod frame->hmf which is a pretty chonky build. the other place rips get used (besides elevator's smart plating), is with the default oscillator recipe which isn't very good. The point of what i'm sharing is that after the initial phases, most of your rips are going to end up being made in your hmf factory with better recipes, as such, spending too much time early on design is less effective than just getting something cooking.

[ocean needle]

Should i got bigger

[prisma kraken]

it looks like a pretty good size

[ocean needle]

Yeah its more than enough for phase 3 and even a pretty good start to phase 4

However I could get more resources nodes from my train network

[prisma kraken]

its a good place to be for a 30/30/30 phase 5 delivery goal

[ocean needle]

Nice

This is my current railway system, all 2 directional

Planning to build in the dessert

[prisma kraken]

you probably will end up doing something different at that point for hsc's, oscillators & computers

[ocean needle]

Yeah fair

[prisma kraken]

in phase 3, i always end up a bit logjammed between the steel & electronics components, needing both before they're all built. As such, corners get cut

[ocean needle]

Real

I only need the ACU's to complete phase 3 now, so I should be good

[prisma kraken]

they're a meatball, lol

[ocean needle]

Lmao

[prisma kraken]

i'm taking the time to do a proper hmf build that'll scale into phase 5

[ocean needle]

Nice

How many

[prisma kraken]

i only have 480 belts atm, so everything is running at 40% of design

[ocean needle]

Noice

[ocean needle]

Which site / app is that

[prisma kraken]

sp.runesun.com

it isn't a solver, but a planner. you need to know what you want to build in order for it to be useful

there's some rough edges in the tool, but it works well for my needs

[frosty owl]

And it's made with love~

[prisma kraken]

anyway, the build is over the halfway point, and coming along

[rocky pawn]

Any diagram tools you recommend?

[prisma kraken]

not really, the game is the best layout tool i've found 😄

[wind spade]

depends what do you mean by "diagram"

machine-level planning is indeed best done ingame

[prisma kraken]

i personally find the flow charts on sftools, modeler, etc unuseful.

how i sort of figure out layouts is just build the machines and figure out where the belts need to go

stuff like this is all blueprints just getting connected together via simple belt splits i run by hand

[sage belfry]

about drones and fuel: I read this reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1fndgco/i_tested_all_the_drone_port_fuels_so_you_dont/) and a few others, are there any other references for drone numbers? tl;dr: I'm spinning up 5400 rocket fuel / minute and and wondering how much I should split off for drones. given that efficiency varies based on distance and without knowing exactly how many drones I plan to have and all their exact distances, I'm trying to ballpark it as "that should be enough, and if it's not I can train the rest". I'd just like enough to have a handful of drones. and for the far ones (far away from the fuel factory) probably means dedicated refuelers. does "fuel/minute" on this post mean actual fuel or the packaged form?

[dusky dust]

On my last playthrough, my rocket-fuel-consuming drones were using about 2.5/min per drone, on routes which were in constant use (ie: not waiting for cargo unload at a full port)

[sage belfry]

2.5/min of fuel or 2.5/min of packaged fuel?

[dusky dust]

The exact number varies, of course, and the average world depend on the average distances and such, but IMO planning for 3/min per drone would give you very comfortable overhead

[dusky dust]

2.5/min packaged rocket fuel

[sage belfry]

ack. Thank you!!!!! so as an example if I wanted 20 drones i'd need ~60 packages == 240 actual fuel per minute

[dusky dust]

(my own average for battery-fueled drones was also almost exactly 2.5/min, actually; technically it should've been a bit worse, but maybe those routes were a bit shorter than the RF ones, on average)

RF is only a 2x compression for packaging, btw

[sage belfry]

shit. i would've not realized that until it was too late lol

ok so 60x2=120 then, which is better actually

[dusky dust]

But otherwise yes, with the caveat that those were only my own numbers. I think that was an average for something like 40 drones though

[sage belfry]

heard. I have plenty to give myself headroom, as you suggested, so I'll fudge the numbers a bit and not worry much otherwise 🙂

really appreciate the input though, and the callout on 2x 🤦

[dusky dust]

I also have a couple of notes on the numbers you can get from the Drone Port control panel, btw, with a couple of caveats:

1. Last time I checked this was v1.0. I haven't seen any notes about if these have been addressed since then, but it's possible they could have been
2. Also I was only looking at batteries, so it's possible other fuels might behave differently

First, you can't actually fully trust the "fuel per minute" that the drone port gives you. In my experience it was always reporting too high, but never at a value that I could figure out. (Like I could never understand how it was arriving at the number that it was)

The numbers which did seem reliable were "fuel per trip" and "round trip time," though I believe those can end up getting rounded a good amount in the display. You can use those two to compute the actual route's round-trip time.

If you load your save in SCIM, the port info shown in SCIM does do the math correctly, so you can always do that

But that also leads me to a second bug: when the game saves, any drone in flight stores a value for how long it's been in the air. The saving process makes this number way too high

[sage belfry]

oof

[dusky dust]

When the drone next docks at a port, it's that value that's shown in "round trip time" and used to compute other stuff, so in general, the very first time a drone docks after loading a save, you can't necessarily trust the numbers. Gotta wait for a second docking. :D

Bugs for reference, fwiw: https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/6780c209c10ae65555c7a5ad / https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/6780c4b2c10ae65555c7a5af

(so if you do want to use the SCIM numbers, make sure you've let the game run long enough for the drone to dock twice. :)

[sage belfry]

interesting. maybe i'll just fudge the numbers a biiiiiiit more then just to be safe lol

[prisma kraken]

drone ports are pretty tricky to get a read on the fuel use of... you need to factor in the frequency with which the drone makes trips to get an accurate number, and the game doesn't help you figure that out

[slender kelp]

does anyone in here know how the hell you can build perpendicularly out of ramps? this is being such a pain in my ass none of the math adds up in here

i went on desmos and the game still dosent add up

[vapid gorge]

can you not extend the ramp up with more ramps and build the beam along the edge?

[slender kelp]

its a slope of 1/2 and i cant find any ramps with a slope of -2 for perendicular

and when u line up the pillars on the adequet foundations its still off

[vapid gorge]

if yo uwant a slope of 1/2 a 4m ramp should do it.
it's 4m high 8m wide

follow along the edge of them with the beams , use beam connectors if you have to

[slender kelp]

ah that would be it

i thought the ramp was 1/2 not 1/4

its 1/4 🇸 💔

[vapid gorge]

it happens xD

[slender kelp]

its very flush and perfect now, thank u

[digital wing]

Does modeller have a way of setting a max belt speed?

or do i need to just change the max output of things to match that speed

[median heath]

I feel like this is another reason Tools is better.

[vapid gorge]

ask in the modeller discord

[digital wing]

I dont like tools because it just blurts information out, i enjoy planning out the factory how i want it rather than messing w all the checkboxes in tools lol

[digital wing]

Oh i didnt know it had one, thanks

[median heath]

Tools just gives you numbers. It doesn't tell you HOW to use them

Compared to needing it to tell you belt stuff.

[pearl schooner]

Completely forgot about the 600m^3 per second limit and don't want to repipe everything. Should this be fine or should I move pink over a bit left?

[median heath]

Per SECOND?

[pearl schooner]

Per minute.

Kinda mentally burnt as you can tell.

[digital wing]

Thats exactly the reason why i said i preferred modeler lol

I built a 900gw nuclear facility in my last save and planned it all through modeller, i hardly had to do any thinking while i was doing the actual placing of buildings

[vapid gorge]

except you need to rebuild the whole thing if you want to swap out recipes , and do so manually

[digital wing]

Its just preference at the end of the day

[vapid gorge]

when you can get a plan in a few seconds and just create your own layouts in game as you like

[vapid gorge]

your image suggests you're only feeding 270 fuel pm?

oh right you ahve another feed there

[pearl schooner]

I have 270 from the bottom row and 570 from the top two

[vapid gorge]

you really want to avoid thigns like this with fluids

[pearl schooner]

Like I said, I completely forgot about the pipe limit

[digital wing]

they both have pros and cons its just preference, maybe because i was still learning i appreciated the planning modeller enabled. tools was p overwhelming lol

[vapid gorge]

I also mean about merging systems and making branches like this

avoid merging and avoid branches

[pearl schooner]

This is literally my first time making a turbo fuel plant

[vapid gorge]

yup people's first fuel power station is usually where you learn pipes the hard way

have fluid going from point A to B , no splits or merges

it's not that it's impossible to have branches or merges but can really cause havoc

[pearl schooner]

I already have a normal fuel plant running fine after figuring things out

Anyway, that's not what I am asking

[vapid gorge]

smaller flow systems tend to be more resilient to those sorts of things

[pearl schooner]

I'm asking if I should move the pink pipe over to avoid throughput issues

[vapid gorge]

and my reply was to split the systems

don't merge them

[pearl schooner]

Mmm, gimme a second than

[vapid gorge]

also try to get rid of that lone fuel gen in blue

that's an extra branch you really don't need

[pearl schooner]

All the green are overclocked

[vapid gorge]

to 250%?

[pearl schooner]

I have it all mathed out for 100% usage of output

[pearl schooner]

Yes

[vapid gorge]

add another one to the line then

you want to avoid branches

[pearl schooner]

Blue one

[vapid gorge]

after you've done that
under clock a cuople generators in each system to like 50% to flood the systems , full pipes are more stable

[pearl schooner]

This is my best option without having to reprime like 20 systems

[vapid gorge]

you're still merging 3 systems together

up to you though , there's lots of ways that are not impossible to do pipes, just massive pains in the ass

basically theres more and less reliable ways to pipe

[pearl schooner]

I would to basically redo my entire setup down to the HOR refinies

[vapid gorge]

no at worst you'd only have to add/remove a few generators to each line

[pearl schooner]

Going to start firing them up and let it run while I clean the floors

[median heath]

The belt lifts hurt my soul.

[pearl schooner]

Good

[vapid gorge]

for example , just clock the 2 lines of generators to feed off this one pipe

lower flow pipes are also more stable

[pearl schooner]

I try to err on the side of "feed down into systems"

[vapid gorge]

yeah feeding from above isn't a cure all to this sort of thing

otherwise that would have been the solution I'd have given you at the start

[pearl schooner]

I also try and keep things elevanted to give room for building under if need be

[pearl schooner]

Yeah, I learned pretty quick that sloshing is a symptom more than an ailment

Okay, pipes to the gens is fine. It's my HOR pipes I need to redo because I have the IQ of a fish.

[pearl schooner]

Rebuilt some pipes. Really good sign as it refills

[vapid gorge]

fingers crossed

[pearl schooner]

Getting maximum throughput on MK2 generally means no sloshing or other issues

[vapid gorge]

yup, gotta wait until it stabalises before yo ucan tell though

[pearl schooner]

Yeah, made sure to prime everything before spinning it up

Next time I do this, going to split things up more

[vapid gorge]

it's a good idea for even belt systems to more easily trouble shoot things, but really something you should focus on with fluids

[pearl schooner]

Oh, totally. I'm still fairly new and it's all a learning experience for me

Couple minutes in, HOR seems fine. Just the usual gulps

I...

[vapid gorge]

were you not pumping out the oil yo uwere expecting?

[pearl schooner]

"Drake, where's the Power Shards?"

Gonna take a break before my brain becomes even more smooth.

[pearl schooner]

Decided to make a small chance since it wouldn't be much effort.

In fact, all I had to do was throw down two gens at standard clock speed and lower the clock speed of another.

[vapid gorge]

yup

[pearl schooner]

Oh yeah, that's real pretty.

[prisma kraken]

getting there

[oblique hollow]

@nova kraken pinged here cause its kinda meta and i cant post images in #satisfactory-consoles

[wheat nymph]

they still haven't fixed that?

[oblique hollow]

its not a bug

this is just how valves work

most people expect valves to let flow through unimpeded and then cut it of abruptly once it reaches the flow limit

[wheat nymph]

and why wouldn't you

nothing in the game suggests otherwise

[oblique hollow]

nothing in the game suggest likewise either

[wheat nymph]

not true

you can create an analogous situation using belts

[oblique hollow]

its ONLY description is "Limits Pipeline flow rates"

and the belt analogue falls flat because pipes do not act equal to belts

[wheat nymph]

exactly my point

I and apparently you would argue most people expect this feature of pipes to work differently, more analogous to belts

there is an implied expectance of behaviour

[oblique hollow]

Imo, its an absence of description that causes this mismatch

[wheat nymph]

the valve arbitrarily imposing additional constraints on top of that stands out as the outlier

[wind spade]

if you build mk6 belts, do you expect it to carry 1200/min items, even if you don't provide that much?

[oblique hollow]

People expect a cut-off valve, not a pressure regulator valve

[wheat nymph]

?

I fail to see what that has to do with what we are talking about greeny

[wheat nymph]

I suppose so

[wind spade]

that "max possible flow" and "actual flow" may be different

[oblique hollow]

Imo, they should just update the description

and add that the valve is "sensitive to pipe fullness / pressure"

[wheat nymph]

I would also argue that the graphic shown to the user when they interact with it heavily suggests it being a cut off valve

[wheat nymph]

I wanna say yes. It would be an easy addendum. But nobody reads the description

[wind spade]

people expect valve to force fluid into the pipe at that rate

[wheat nymph]

yes but not out of nowhere obviously

[wind spade]

same as splitting mk3 belt from full mk6 belt, people would expect it to be full

[oblique hollow]

that is another big reason why people fail at pipes initially.
cause nobody reads about head lift or that pipes have flow limit
Actually, not even just descriptions. Reading in general tbh

[wheat nymph]

speaking of nowhere, I gotta go. But since we are on the subject of pipes: Do you have a compact priority merger build for pipes?

[oblique hollow]

no

[wheat nymph]

:/

[wind spade]

with pipes best is not to merge/split and instead have isolated modules

[oblique hollow]

VIP is still the best analogue there is but its technically stilla bug

[wheat nymph]

that is my observation, too

but occasionally the issue arises where it does indeed make sense to cross the beams so to speak

[oblique hollow]

excessive splitting and merging just leads to interconnected systems

[wind spade]

imo it never makes sense to prio merge pipes

[oblique hollow]

and honestly, even with belts, thats just fundamentally not ideal when you wanna troubleshoot

[wheat nymph]

I hate it when my systems interconnect

[oblique hollow]

you WANT seperated networks, you WANT to be able to fix one and then not have to worry about it breaking another network

[wind spade]

(as an offtopic - this ^ was kinda weird to me at first as well)

[wheat nymph]

I just placed an auto connecting blueprint which auto connected a bit too much and whoops I had iron ingots on my iron plates belt and off it went at mach 6 into the factory

[wheat nymph]

wait, what

it's not?

[wind spade]

mk6 belt -> splitter -> mk6 belt
mk3 belt from one output of splitter

won't be full

[wheat nymph]

oh yeah of course not

[oblique hollow]

if the mk 6 is full then i would expect a full mk 3 belt

[wind spade]

it won't be

[oblique hollow]

odd. is it timing related?

[wind spade]

mk6 delivers each 0.05 seconds while mk3 only takes every 0.222 seconds

[oblique hollow]

ok so timing related

[wheat nymph]

so every time something comes into the splitter it needs to move it into one output buffer

and then timing comes into play, exactly

[oblique hollow]

or just use overflow splitter

[unique cypress]

Splitters have buffers to it should fill the belt

[wind spade]

for overflow setting that works afaik

[wheat nymph]

anyway, good observation greeny

[wind spade]

but not for normal splitter

[wheat nymph]

good thing to keep in mind

[oblique hollow]

i guess the trouble is that the buffered item can just as easily be grabbed by the output mk 6 belt, isnt it?

[wind spade]

since normal splitter can easily output anything into mk6

[oblique hollow]

because thats "in sync" with the input mk 6

[unique cypress]

Doesn't it have a buffer for each port?

[oblique hollow]

i dont think so anymore

[wind spade]

afaik not, but maybe it changed since I last checked this

[wheat nymph]

thinking is overrated anyway

[oblique hollow]

i believe its only an input buffer nowadays

what WOULD work is an output mk 6 on both where one transitions to mk 3 right after

or at least thats what i think would work

[unique cypress]

It adds a buffer so probably

[oblique hollow]

its also in sync

its a synchronized buffer so to speak

[unique cypress]

Sync doesn't matter if there's a buffer on the output

Which is why imo it should have a buffer on each port

Because then you definitely won't have timing issues (assuming the splitter doesn't have a speed itself)

[wind spade]

yeah, sync isn't really the problem, it's because the mk3 output gets skipped (since there's not enough space for another item), and by the time it is picked again, there's a gap between previous item and possible new item

[oblique hollow]

the mk 3 gets skipped because of timing tho

[unique cypress]

Well, no, with a buffer, the mk3 belt takes out the next item when it's ready to do that

And because it's less than half the input, the buffer has to receive an item between one mk3 belt movement and the next

[oblique hollow]

i have a theory....
is the output on the mk 6 belt around 980/min and on the (unbuffered) mk 3 around 220/min ?

[unique cypress]

I'll be home in 10 minutes so I'll set up a test

Expect results in an hour or 2, I'll have to record and integrate the damn belt monitor curve

Though I guess item counting in containers would work too, if slightly less accurately

[wind spade]

ten minutes worth of container items should be enough

[unique cypress]

@wind spade @oblique hollow
got 2955 items in the mk3 belt container, 10165 in the mk6 belt containers in 10:50 ~ 11:00 minutes. this is roughly 270 for the mk3 belt and 930 for the mk6
Another thing is the ratio. 10165 / 2955 = 3.4399, while (1200-270)/270 = 3.4444.
The belt monitor on the mk3 also stayed steady at 270

the ratio is slightly off, which I can't really explain, but it's under, which would mean the mk3 got more than it should've.
wasn't checking either the input or output mk6 belts so it's possible they got a small blip below what they should be

[wind spade]

May be that they changed something undocumented then

[frosty owl]

Tbf, belts have it easier when it comes to isolating production areas, even if they have dependencies, because you can always "just sink" to keep things running (fluids make that much more complex)

[frosty owl]

... Is there a way to check that in game, other than eviscerating the related code?

[oblique hollow]

Not that i would know

[frosty owl]

... Maybe if the input was a constant pattern of items rather than always the same item, we could be able to tell if and which items exactly do end up getting buffered and for which output
I'm a bit too tired to think about the details now 😅

[robust tulip]

@neat crest how did you make 196 iron into 8 smart plates? mind dropping the schematic?

i saw your post in #screenshots and it got me lowk pondering

[trim moth]

Do you have a cast screws recipe?

Nvm you don't need it

@robust tulip

That's how you do it

[robust tulip]

oh so it isn't exactly 8

but even better!

[trim moth]

I think you can get even more with alt recipes

Imma check with cast screws

Nah stays the same

[neat crest]

mine is exactly 8 hold on

196 iron to iron ingot
ingot to 48 plate, 133.333 cast screw, 48 wire, 16 iron pipe

[unique cypress]

You can make nearly 10
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=LZUgpUux13JyvLHIBK2J

[neat crest]

plate and screw into bolted reinforced plate, wire and pipe into steel rotor. 8 each, 8 smart plate

[neat crest]

I basically don't do plans with decimals that are too ugly. and those are very ugly

[unique cypress]

Numbers are numbers 🤷‍♂️

[neat crest]

some numbers are very bad 😡😡😡

[robust tulip]

don't get me started on irrationals

under some circumstances, i can tolerate recurring numbers

[prisma kraken]

fortunately there's no Q's in Satisfactory

[unique cypress]

π/min

[prisma kraken]

cake is a lie

[oblique hollow]

Please give me 2-3i/min Nuclear Pasta

[prisma kraken]

all you have to do is rotate the accelerator to be on a tilt to change its phase

calculating the angle is left as an exercise for the reader

[trim moth]

Oh god stitched plate recipe

[neat crest]

stitched plate is by far the biggest creator of Bad Ratios haha. next is anything with quartz crystals

[wind spade]

They work the same as non-decimals

[robust tulip]

what recipie do you guys use for the computer?

all of them seem pretty attractive in their own merits

[limpid vapor]

I like caterium computer, I combine it with silicon circuit board, near the lake just north-west of blue crater

All the stuff is close by, except for rubber, but you can make that at the crater and or somewhere and import