math-and-meta

[nova vortex]

thas my build style

[brave dock]

It also feels insanely wasteful

You'll want that oil to make other stuff, namely rocket fuel, from it

[nova vortex]

i need my power

[mint coral]

when youa re phase 3 you got not much choice

[brave dock]

Rocket Fuel is in Phase 3?

You also don't need 360 gens worth of power in Phase 3

[nova vortex]

i also have a 90k nuclear

[brave dock]

I'd honestly wait for rocket fuel until you start mass placing fuel gens

[mint coral]

no you need a blender

building a bunch of fuel gens is normal in phase 3 ^_^

[nova vortex]

im on the last phase of T8

[mint coral]

cool

[brave dock]

one singular Mk2 pipe of rocket fuel feeds 144 fuel gens in theory. I stick to 128 usually, which is 64 gens with 2 shards.

That much power with just normal fuel must be a huge portion of the worlds oil...?

[mint coral]

I understand where you are coming from, but taht wasnt the Question ^_^

[nova vortex]

not really

[mint coral]

600 oil equals 20GW of fuel. ytou can easily beat the game with that method

[prisma kraken]

aluminum is a prereq for rocket fuel. no way to make it without nitrogen

iirc, the unlock also needs something in fluid tanks which take aluminum

[brave dock]

only if you want to package it

[prisma kraken]

fuel power once you get into diluted/turbo/rocket fuel uses very little oil. 900 crude + 600 sulfur will give you 40gw of turbofuel power and rocket just improves on that yield

[brave dock]

The Blenders needs some Aluminium parts, sure

and the Nitrogen fracker

[prisma kraken]

yeah, the fracker is really the lynchpin, but you need aluminum for things like blenders too

[frank prawn]

would everything here need to be mk 2 conveyors?

[limpid vapor]

no

[dusky dust]

Remember you're sort of naturally splitting things up regardless, so most of that would be quite doable with just mk1s. If you want to take your 120/min Iron Ore from a single miner, then that at least would need a mk2 belt

For instance for the Iron Plate constructors you could just direct-belt them 1:1 with the smelters providing the ingots

[frank prawn]

yeah originally i was doing that only using mk2 conveyors for the ore, ingots for the iron plates, and screws, but it was still running slow, around like 50%

do i need to change these conveyors? i have a splitter splitting the 120/min into 2 60/min converyors, but its still working under 100% clockspeed

[limpid vapor]

the splitter on the left has an incoming mk2 belt and a single mk1 belt going out, think about this

you are essentially swapping to a mk1 before the point where you really split it

that splitter basically does nothing as it stands

belt in, belt out

[frank prawn]

so between those two splitters i should have a mk2 aswell?

[limpid vapor]

yes, because what you have going on currently is this

you are bottlenecking your mk2 belt with a segment of mk1 belt before you split it

[frank prawn]

ohh i see, i thought i could just put a mk1 because i was splitting the iron two different ways, i didnt know that it could bottleneck like that

[limpid vapor]

well, thats just based on the image you showed, i cant see whats to the left

i am assuming there is nothing, because i cant see whats there

if theres the same setup on the other side, its fine

[frank prawn]

yeah its the same setup, not sure why it could be under 100% clockspeed then

[limpid vapor]

then this is fine

red lights?

[frank prawn]

i took the power off because i wanted to figure out why nothing was at 100%, not even my assemblers

[limpid vapor]

maybe better to troubleshoot in #1038092680493801533

[tough viper]

what is the theoretical maximum with the available 2100 uranium? i get

• x50,4 Uranium Rods
• x22,4 Plutonium Rods
• x112 Ficsonium Rods
  should there be more or does that match "official" numbers?

[meager kettle]

those are the max numbers to get 1470gw of power

[tough viper]

very nice, then I only need to calculate the lowest possible sloops for 100% waste free power

[meager kettle]

just keep in mind you need to use 20 sloops on the ficsite ingot step or you wont have enough sam ore to get all 112 ficsonium rods

[tough viper]

alright it's 20 xD

[tough viper]

I'm struggling to find the last piece in the puzzle, if I only use said 20 sloops i don't get to 2550 reanimated

I mean I could sloop five converters like this but it would increase the sloop use significantly

[fervent spire]

Use caterium instead of iron?

[unique cypress]

Or aluminium

[tough viper]

it's hard to see but it is aluminium

[unique cypress]

To find the absolute minimum, you'd have to use SF Optimizer, start with 0 sloops, and increase by 1 until it says it's possible

Because with sinking superposition oscillators or AI expansion servers or even packaged ionized fuel, it's definitely possible with 20

There's even like 1-2k SAM left

[graceful linden]

I have nowhere to vent about this so ima post this here: linear programming and simplex algos are a witch's spell

[narrow dock]

Is satisfactory-calculator's production planner known to output... odd factories? After making my own rubber/plastic factory I was curious how it compared to what the two websites suggested. satisfactorytools ended up being the same thing I made but satisfactory-calculator put out a factory which has 2700m^3/min of unused heavy oil residue, which beyond being wasteful would also cause the factory to clog up.

[ionic sapphire]

then sink it

[narrow dock]

That would fix the clog but wouldn't make the factory any less bizarre

in fact adding another 67.5 refineries to turn it into sinkable coke would be even more bizarre

[vapid gorge]

SCIM doesn't do the recycle loop well

[limpid vapor]

dont use that planner, it dies immediately any time you have a loop

[graceful linden]

exact class of problem im solving with my calc

[vapid gorge]

that's much more obnoxious of layout

[graceful linden]

phase 4 factory in my tool

ong there is no non obnoxious way to render this

[graceful linden]

demo of the loop solver/output maximizing

[tepid stirrup]

so i have a normal oil well with max overclock and 4 max overclocked refineries (2 plastic 2rubber) wut can i do with the residue?

[vapid gorge]

you can create coke and sink it for points

simplest usually

[prisma kraken]

also pretty good power to be made by burning it in coal generators

[tepid stirrup]

dont need it

there are 2 pure oil things i got maxed with 7000kw of power on my grid

ill just sink them to get rid of them cuz i odnt need a big factory

[prisma kraken]

the other nice thing to do with the coke is to use it for some circuit boards if you unlock the electro cb recipe

[vapid gorge]

eh, tiny amount of power that you don't want to rely on

[tepid stirrup]

i do have the electrode circut board alternate craft

rubber and pet coke

[vapid gorge]

its an ok recipe, but jfc it just chugs oil

and you generally need other resources for anything you want to do with circuit boards anyway

[prisma kraken]

I'm not a fan of making a big production chain off of electroCB, but back when train signals needed cb's, it was great for getting the choos going before you dealt with making computers

more of a set-up-an-assemble-to-make-a-crateful sorta thing

there isn't a ton of copper near oil, so depending on your starting biome, the recipe can get you cb's before dealing with the logistics of bringing plastic to wherever you have copper/caterium

[tepid stirrup]

this wut i got just a small thing

[tranquil berry]

is oil->HRO->fuel power positive?

HOR*

[prisma kraken]

yep, it is the prefered way to make yellow fuel power

[tranquil berry]

It looks like it turns more oil into fuel but is it worth the additional refinery setup?

I was thinking of doing that as an intermediate to turbofuel

[mint coral]

You can throw diluted package fuel in there to kick it up a notch

[prisma kraken]

300 crude -> 20gw of yellow fuel power with dilluted fuel

[tranquil berry]

I don't think I have diluted fuel yet, is that an alternate?

[mint coral]

Ya

[tranquil berry]

Better than turbo fuel?

[prisma kraken]

there's also a version that works in the blender without packaging the water. same 3 hor->6 fuel ratio for that

[dusky dust]

"Better" is, as always, a hard word in this game. But it's a set of two recipes which together allow you to make a lot more fuel from a given amount of oil. In terms of oil-power-efficiency it's "better" in that you get more MW per crude oil than "just" doing Turbofuel

(and of course since Diluted just makes ordinary fuel, there's nothing stopping you from first doing Diluted and then doing Turbofuel on top of that, though IMO save your fuel gen spam for Rocket Fuel, if you're gonna do that. :) Just Diluted will generally be more than enough for you)

[vapid gorge]

you can't compare - turbo fuel effective turns coal and sulfur into more oil

[dusky dust]

Which isn't to say you shouldn't do Turbofuel if you want, of course -- it can be a fun build, and it's a nice boost to "vanilla" fuel production! Diluted is arguably easier though (no coal+sulfur) and sort of gets you "more" on its own than Turbofuel does

[tranquil berry]

Seems easier than belting in the compacted coal too

[vapid gorge]

diluted (packaged) fuel is much more convenient. And there's tons of oil

you can easily finish phase 5 with diluted fuel

[dusky dust]

In Phase 3, the main difficulty with Diluted is that you need to use the packaged version, which is a bit more complex, but you can simplify your factory setup immensely with blueprints

[vapid gorge]

or get to nuclear very easily and having basically infinite power

[prisma kraken]

turbofuel generates more power per raw resource expended, but you have more factory to make the fuel, so the yield is slightly lower. in general as you start needing bigger magnitudes of power, the extra magnitudes do cost more, but endgame factory requires the extra power

[dusky dust]

Basically: you can fit 2x Packager (Packaged Water + Unpackage Fuel) and 1x Refinery (Diluted Packaged Fuel) into even a 4x4 blueprint, with some tight belting, and even include Empty Containers in the Packaged Water packager ready-to-go. Becomes a one-click deployment which takes in water+HOR and spits out Fuel.

Once you get to Phase 4 and unlock a new production machine, you can use the non-Packaged version which is, admittedly, more convenient: a single Blender takes in the Water+HOR and spits out Fuel. But your blueprint can be a lil' mini-Blender.

Same material ratios; the only difference is that the Packaged version at 100% spits out 60/min whereas the Blender version spits out 100/min

20-30 Empty Containers in the closed loop should do. :)

Whatever you do, save yourself a lot of bother and don't try to manifold all the packaging/unpackaging steps together. Closed loops (in blueprints) make it much easier. :)

[prisma kraken]

tbh, i'm not sure its really worth doing the compact blueprint. i prefer to get to the aluminum unlock before really going all-in on big fuel builds, and there are enough other power sources to accomplish that on default power cost settings

[dusky dust]

Eh, IMO Diluted (or Turbo) is well worth it in Phase 3, and during Phase 3 those are your choices.

If you're me you're spending many tens of hours in Phase 3, and I wouldn't want to have to hamstring myself along with just "vanilla" fuel

I know some folks like to rush through milestones but I tend to take my time. :)

[prisma kraken]

usually my strat is to get to turbo blend fuel and go all in on that with a later rocket fuel conversion when I need it

[manic goblet]

You can also do larger blueprints by having two blueprint designers next to each other. You can spread out space a bit more, and with autolinking, they do a good job of hooking each other up.

Break some of the machines up across multiple prints that way

[dusky dust]

Yeah, nothing wrong with going for Turbofuel if that's what you want. But Diluted is a lot more flexible to set down -- all you need is oil+water. (And gives you more "bang for your buck" if you're counting MW-per-crude-oil)

[prisma kraken]

yeah, but you're later going to be doing turbo or rocket fuel and having to rip out all the janky packaging stuff is a rebuild anyway

[dusky dust]

I mean, only if you rebuild, which I never do

Why tear down perfectly good power? I just build new.

[manic goblet]

Could you blueprint it in such a way that you can easily yank out the blueprints at a later time and place in your other design?

[dusky dust]

Rebuilding is always a choice. :)

[prisma kraken]

i'll respectfully nod and state that there are many different play styles

[dusky dust]

Yeah, if you did want to tear down your Packaged Diluted Fuel, the blueprints I recommend would make it trivial to retrofit, anyway

One dismantle per "mini-Blender"

[prisma kraken]

i personally just like to wait until the good tech allows straightforward building

[dusky dust]

The amount of "space" those blueprints take up isn't entirely dissimilar to the space a Blender would take up, too.

Though who would want to tear down all those happy li'l packages zipping around. :D

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'll also make the point that it's more entities, belts and stuff moving around for the same result. those things all do eat away at simulation speed

[dusky dust]

Sure, though again: in Phase 3, your choices for "bigger" power is Packaged Diluted or Turbofuel (or both)

And IMO Packaged Diluted is less work overall, for better gains

[prisma kraken]

in this game that isn't a huge concern, but i play other factory games where it is something I am more mindful of

[dusky dust]

At the scales you're building in Phase 3 the amount of simulation speed is unlikely to be egregious, though

You don't start really building big until Phase 4+ anyway

[prisma kraken]

usually i find the game starting to groan after my first 45/min hmf build 😄

[dusky dust]

If a modest Diluted plant is killing your game in Phase 3, you're gonna have a rough time with the rest of the game, etc. :D

[prisma kraken]

yep, but it all adds up

[dusky dust]

I would argue not in any significant way, given the Phase 3 scaling. :P The percentage of your combined factory load that's Packaged Diluted is gonna be miniscule, even with packages zipping around and such.

But anyway we both agreed to drop it and then kept at it! Bad me. :)

🍻

I too enjoy myself a good Turbofuel build from time to time. :D

[leaden marlin]

Push for nuclear.

[vast jungle]

or if you don't like Nuclear, go for Rocket Fuel... easier to do and more than enough Power for most playthroughs

[vapid gorge]

it really isn't, it's just monotonous, the same generator placement over and over

[sudden wadi]

Is there like an online calculator or excel sheet someone made that can calculate the necessary constructors/smelters/ore-per-minute you would need in total to make something like an engine at 1 per second

It would help me plan factories out for endgame without needing to constantly reconstruct stuff

[meager kettle]

check pins

[sudden wadi]

Oooo gracias 🙏

[vast jungle]

I suggest looking at "satisfactorytools.com"

[wind spade]

tbh, I wouldn't recommend planning for endgame, unless you're already in endgame

[vast jungle]

most times just looking at the "planing for the endgame from the beginning" diagramms make people think about intermediate designs 😄

[vapid gorge]

motors for example, a plan made in 2 seconds https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=zJLcKEd4hbRySLdOciZn

but yeah don't plan for the end, the milestones are basically a tutorial to learn

[rustic grove]

Use satisfactory modeler trust me, its on steam and by far the best

[wind spade]

that's a lot of manual work

if they are looking for something to calculate how much you need for X/min, modeler is pretty slow at that

[fleet notch]

Satisfactory tools makes some weird decisions regarding alt recipe use and I wouldn't trust it for really trying to optimize, but it's good for when you want X items/min and don't want to do math

[outer vale]

I wouldn't blindly use what Tools gives you, you can freely enable/disable alts if you disagree with its choices

[vast jungle]

SFTools optimized (minimizes) the (weighted) inputs based on the user-defined set of available alt-recipes... so if you don't have a look at the alt-recipe list, you might not get the output you want/need

[limpid vapor]

Right, it can't read your mind

You still have to tell it what you want for it to crunch the numbers

[wind spade]

it does optimise for weighted raw resources, obviously you may not like that, but that's why you can disable recipes 🙂

there's nothing like "weird decision" in general, just "weird decision based on my preferences", which it obviously cannot know

you can force it to use recipes you want, at which point it no longer does any optimisation (but still calculates it instantly instead of you having to set each step manually, also is super simple to compare two setups)

[fleet notch]

I know I can configure which recipes it's allowed to use but it still leaves me scratching my head when, for example, I have pure iron and copper ingot recipes enabled and instead it's using some weird combination of the alloy recipes and default smelters

[limpid vapor]

That's when you disable those recipes?

[fleet notch]

That's... not my point

[limpid vapor]

even if you enable the alts, how is it supposed to know which ones you want to use?

[wind spade]

Are you possibly using maximise?

[outer vale]

my guess there'd be either you're using Maximise mode (which doesn't do any optimisation), or you accidentally disabled water.
care to share the link?

[fleet notch]

My point is something seems off about the way it optimizes for resource usage
Because, given a choice of recipes, it is choosing a combination of recipes that it can be trivially shown is suboptimal

I don't have it available right now but yes, I was using maximize mode. I had no idea that mode didn't optimize so that's probably the source of my confusion lol

[limpid vapor]

maximize with multiple items?

[fleet notch]

yeah, I was maximizing computers and heavy mod frames from a few resource nodes

[wind spade]

Yeah, maximise doesn't optimise for resources (as it optimises for max production). You should change back to items/min once you know the max

[fleet notch]

That seems odd lol. I'll try that and see what happens

[wind spade]

Also when maximising multiple items, it makes equal amount of all of those items. Depends whether you like it or not, but again, generally not recommended to use

[wind spade]

Well, sometimes you can get to max production by different paths, when that happens, the tool just picks one "at random"

[fleet notch]

Yup, it appears that was indeed the source of my confusion, manually setting items/min makes much more sensible choices lol

[oblique hollow]

Thats just maximise for you

[outer vale]

any particular reason Tools couldn't do two passes in these cases, one to work out the max then another to do a "normal" plan with those values as its targets?

instead of "here's an option but you shouldn't use it"

[oblique hollow]

Because that would be minmax

Not just max

Maximise is literally just the max half of minmaxing

And the default calc is minimize

[wind spade]

originally it was planned like that (I wanted those two options to behave "the same"), but I've run into many issues with it and decided to scrap it. It then made a re-appearance in beta, but changing how it works would unfortunately change all player's production plans, which I do not want to do (imagine building some setup and then next day you open browser and it's completely different)

[oblique hollow]

Reintroduce it again as its own mode

[wind spade]

new Tools will have that capability built-in, but that's still in the works. Can use beta for it now if you like to live dangerously

[wind spade]

yeah, that would be an option... however I'd need to find a good name for it and implement it... both of which take a lot of time (of which I don't have much and the small leftovers of free time are consumed by new Tools)

[outer vale]

changing how it works would unfortunately change all player's production plans
understandable, yeah new mode name'd be a good idea

[crimson moat]

(imagine building some setup and then next day you open browser and it's completely different)
I kinda have that issue regardless because the node positions aren't saved, and with complex plans i usually spend loads of time rearranging them to be more readable which then gets lost with a reload or any change to the plan numbers

[wind spade]

yeah, node positions unfortunately aren't saved for similar technical reasons, and for similar reasons it wouldn't be changed 🙁

but in your case you still get the same production line (just need to find the nodes you're looking for), which is kinda better issue to have than "hey this plan asks for completely different recipes, items, etc."

[vast jungle]

if you are happy with a production plan it can be a good idea to make a screenshot

[dusty shoal]

hey I forgot how to run the satisfactory optimizer script

the python script one btw not the website version

[subtle wasp]

if (OptimizedScript.Enabled == false)
{ OptimizedScript.Enabled = true; }

[unique cypress]

Ah, yes, comparing a variable to false

[limpid vapor]

i am bad at math, is there some way to i can clock speed and machine count my way out of repeating decimals here?

[subtle wasp]

whats wrong with repeating decimals?

[limpid vapor]

nice number make brain go brr

[subtle wasp]

repeating decimals look better than random decimals tho

[limpid vapor]

you misunderstand, the goal here is to get rid of those entirely

to get clean ratios

[brisk urchin]

0.333333 is just one third, its no weird number

[limpid vapor]

i never said it was weird

[brisk urchin]

then make it 3x

because then you would have exactly 10

[limpid vapor]

well, i cant, i already built infra for this, this is the "problem" at hand

[brisk urchin]

then there is no solution

[outer vale]

to do what?

[limpid vapor]

i figured there might be, because getting repeating decimals from whole numbers by machine counts is easy, so i figured the reverse might also be true?

[brisk urchin]

he doesnt like that the numbers are .33333

[brisk urchin]

nope

[outer vale]

if your total clock speed needs some repeating decimals, then at least one of those machines will also need them

[brisk urchin]

if u divide it then the repeating decimil will just get smaler

it wont disapear

[limpid vapor]

guess so

[brisk urchin]

yeah he wants none of those

[outer vale]

well it is, you want the opposite so you do the opposite
division gets you repeating decimals, multiplication gets rid of them

hence the "scale it up to 3x" suggestion

[brisk urchin]

.

[outer vale]

yup that one

[vast jungle]

get rid of fractions by multiplying them out

[limpid vapor]

just a theoretical thing, i am not going to rebuild since i am already halfway done with it, all the sourcing is built and so are the receiving train stations

guess i will just have to scale it when i build more later

i have repeating decimals elsewhere, i can live with it, just prefer to avoid where possible

[brisk urchin]

or just leave it at 3.33333

[limpid vapor]

yeah its fine

[brisk urchin]

just yeah, its an option

[outer vale]

it's just 4 at 83.3333 or 2 at 166.6667, ezpz

[brisk urchin]

you can also just put 10 at 0.33333

(verry optional)

[outer vale]

(or whatever other numbers you want that add to 333.3333%)

332 at 1% and one at 1.3333%

[brisk urchin]

i think we melting his brain

[limpid vapor]

i round up to 0.3334 usually

[brisk urchin]

hehe...

[limpid vapor]

machine count TBD, i base this on amount of space, often underclock to fill space

[unique cypress]

It's better to type in 100/3 into the clock speed box
You should get more precision than putting in 33.3333 exactly

[subtle wasp]

yes putting 33.333 wouldnt work major unbalance

[limpid vapor]

it only does 4 decimals though, no?

[brisk urchin]

if you put enough 3s then it knows you mean infinite

[outer vale]

i remember discussion on that a while back, IIRC it doesn't actually retain that precision and just sticks to the same 4dp you could enter

but could be wrong

[unique cypress]

It does save with full float precision

You can see that if you load the save in SCIM and go to edit clock speed

The values for 33.3333 and 100/3 loaded by SCIM are different

[limpid vapor]

fr? news to me

[outer vale]

ah nice. tbh I do that anyway because I'm lazy, so good to know it's actually a benefit

[limpid vapor]

every time anyone has talked about it its always been said its 4 decimals

i did enter fractions for a lot of my early stuff

[brisk urchin]

i spam like 10 decimals

[outer vale]

in practice the difference'd be barely noticeable anyway

[unique cypress]

I believe that truncates it to 4 decimals

Iirc only equations get full precision

I could be wrong about that

[brisk urchin]

well the endproduct always snaps to a full number (if it would have been one)

[unique cypress]

Only thing I'm sure of is that 33.3333 and 100/3 were different

[limpid vapor]

i thought all information for calculation purposes was lost after 4 decimals

[unique cypress]

Also, that is what it saves in the save file
Unknown what number it actually uses for calculatios

[brisk urchin]

[wind spade]

the per minute value is already rounded by game, so no, it doesn't snap 🙂

[brisk urchin]

aha, alr ill remember that

[unique cypress]

Unless you type that in, instead of clock speed, then it'll be as close to that as computers can manage (probably)

Well, no

Integers can be saved exactly

But it uses the target speed to calculate clock speed, saves that, and then calculates the rate from that again

So the rate's bound to be off unless the clock speed is saved exactly

[dusty shoal]

is this a high machine count? "total_machine_count": "113988.157"

[oblique hollow]

114k machines lmao

[unique cypress]

It's basically impossible to build

[dusty shoal]

okay challange excepted

[unique cypress]

The most you could do is maybe a fifth of that before the game gives up

[dusty shoal]

see you when im dead

or when my pc explodes

[fallow cove]

somebody knows why iron won't go to this constructor too?

[mint coral]

delete the belt between the spliter and constructor and rebuild it.

also make sure the recipe is selected and the constructor has power

[fallow cove]

well i just saw that the whole factory doesn't works and idk why😂

[mint coral]

a large part of my play time is troubleshooting not building

[prisma kraken]

most likely the supplying belt was misconnected directly to the constructor on the left and is clipping through the splitter

my guess is that you tried splicing the splitter onto the belt and were aiming at a foundation instead of the belt

protip: it is bad practice to splice splitters/mergers onto belts. doing it the hard way saves you troubleshooting

[tropic hawk]

got into a conversation and had an interesting question, what recipe (other than biomass) has the highest ratio of output relative to part input in terms of fraction of stack size? (for example, 25 motors would be a half stack, whereas 25 iron ingots would only be a quarter stack)

[prisma kraken]

kinda hard to quantify that for recipes that have more than one input (sum of input stack sizes, normalized to a fraction, or max of the 2/3/4 inputs?).

sidestepping that all as a question and cheating with a 1 solid & 1 liquid recipe, my money would be on electro aluminum scrap

[tropic hawk]

im trying to use the hive mind here, as in the SF tools discord we were talking about how to possibly improve the issues with rounding input costs with the game modifiers as it doesn't play very nicely with decimals

my idea was that it would change the ratio of the recipe to the nearest whole number solution, for example iron plates with 3 ingots for every 2 plates (3:2) would normally be 1.5:2, which IIRC the game rounds to 2:2. My idea would have the ratio be 3:4 with double the cycle speed; but then that brings up the issue of recipes that would then start producing more than half a stack of their item per cycle, which could cause machine stutters, as well as producing more than 1200 parts per minute, and I was wondering if any recipe would produce that much without using slooping or clocking.

[prisma kraken]

well, the protein->biomass recipe does. aluminum scrap can. and steel screw can as well

the base rocket fuel recipe does weird things when you sloop it, making enough to fill the output buffer in each cycle which causes machine pausing

there aren't a lot of recipes that can output more than 240/min, which turns into 1200/min with a sloop+250% OC

[tropic hawk]

the thing is it would only raise the output rate if it can't fully lower the input rate without it turning into a decimal number; so in the case of aluminum scrap, if you were to have a 50% input modifier, it would only be 2 alumina and 1 coal for 6 scrap and 2 water, whereas when you raise it to a 25% Input mod, it would be 2 and 1, but for an output of 12 and 4

[prisma kraken]

i'm at a loss for seeing how doing the wrong inexact math is useful

[tropic hawk]

thats the point im bringing up as well, and trying to figure out how to do correct math for the mults instead of just rounding to the higher number, which sometimes renders the actual multiplier moot.

[prisma kraken]

well, how the game does overclocking math is that it modulates the cycle time. how the game does the fractional slooping math is that it outputs double amounts every 1, 2, 3, or 4 production cycles which results in the fractional amounts that semi-slooping can result in

if you wished to account for the slooping properly, what you'd do is create a 4 cycle 'megacycle' and tally the number of double outputs

[tropic hawk]

true, but the issue here we are trying to solve is not having to round the inputs but rather just raise the amount of output relative to the input with the game setting for recipe consumption, which other than protein:biomass there doesn't seem to be a recipe that produces more than half a stack of itself per cycle, which means it theoretically should be possible

[prisma kraken]

why round anything. its all integral arithmetic. there is no rounding

[tropic hawk]

so how would the game function if you have a 0.5 mult for recipe cost when crafting something that would normally take an odd number of inputs?

specifically for solid inputs, because liquids can get decimal values, but solids are either there or not

[prisma kraken]

a recipe doen't take a fraction of an item, its just when you try to normalize the items per cycle to items per minute, you are arbitrarily setting a different time division than the natural number of seconds the machine cycle takes

oic, you're talking about changing the recipe costs

[tropic hawk]

yea

I know that clocking machines go based off of cycles per minute instead of i/min

[prisma kraken]

the clocking shouldn't affect the cost of input math, and slooping keeps input cost fixed as well, so really you just have a different table of recipe input costs for each recipe cost setting

the adjusted input cost should just be ceil(default cost * multiplier)

[tropic hawk]

exactly, im talking about in the start of the game, under game settings where you can change recipe, power, and space elevator costs via mult

[tropic hawk]

that is the current function, but I personally am bothered by that, so im trying to figure out a way to make it make more uniform sense, hence the whole ratio change, though there are some issues with that (looking at you biomass)

[prisma kraken]

how that then translates to items/min is done with straightforward real-value math which may result in virtually any value

(technically you can draw a tighter bound on it since the largest prime number in the game is 13)

[mint coral]

best seen while making Nuclear rods. cycle time is high so it spits out multiple rods

[prisma kraken]

i.e. every number in the game can be written as x/y where x and y are of the form (2^i * 3^j * 5^k * 7^l * 11^m * 13^n) where the exponents are integral

[tropic hawk]

the i/min isn't really the issue, because with something like protein:biomass recipe, my proposed method of raising the output ratio relative to the input if a solid input is already at a value of 1, would make it try to produce 400 biomass per cycle, which isn't practical since that is 2 stacks of biomass; and I was trying to see if thats the only recipe that would have that issue or if there were others that would produce more than 1 stack of itself per cycle if this principle was applied to it

[ionic sapphire]

2+2 = 2*2 = 2² = ²2 = 2↑↑↑2 = 2→2→n

[tropic hawk]

the first half I do understand, but what the heck is the last half of notation?

[ionic sapphire]

[prisma kraken]

there's some esotheric math notation for taking powers of power and creating really big numbers

[ionic sapphire]

Knuth's up-arrow notation

[teal tiger]

i feel like that those paths are pretty inefficient since there are certain circumstances where several trains can be on this color at the same time i have no clue why this crossing is sharing the same color, any ideas?

or any idea how i can make this more efficient?

its about situations like this

[outer vale]

literally what path signals are for

[teal tiger]

okay i just spammed signals and i think it works

[wind spade]

Or even just block signals

[median heath]

Path signals are misunderstood and wildly over-used. 😭

[wind spade]

Yo sev, welcome back

[median heath]

💛

[wind spade]

if I may abuse the fact that you're back, recently we had a discussion about the 45-81 rule, imo it's no longer as generic as it was, right? 1.0 changed a lot of recipes to not work with it. Or am I misremembering it? (or if you didn't do research for that, ignore the question lol)

[median heath]

To my knowledge there's still only like 3 exceptions. But I can double-check.

Do we have a list of which recipes changed so I don't have to look at them all?

[wind spade]

uhhh... probably not in any relevant shape 🤔 I could probably generate something quickly by diffing data.json for tools for 0.8 and 1.0+

will try to quickly make a script with our friend the overlord Claude

[wind spade]

would this work?

though no idea if it's correct 😄 I've just run the script the AI gave me

from quick checks, it looks fine tho

(still a pretty long list tho, so if you don't feel like checking, it's fine)

[median heath]

I hesitate to use it because it means I am endorsing the use of LLMs 😭

[wind spade]

my boss advocates use of AI so I have paid claude on company's credit card 😄 honestly it's pretty good and helps decent amount in programming (though I still maintain that I'm in charge and review the code when it's not some one-off script like this one)

[teal tiger]

should i just use drones for my uranium transport since there is so little on the map?

[wind spade]

well, all the transportation options are viable, it's your choice which one you use (depending on the route, preferences, fuel availability, etc.)

[mint coral]

I just build where the Uranium is personally, Ive seen many people train the uranium under the map though

[teal tiger]

is there a throughput of drones i should consider like 1200 of trains?

[wind spade]

well, you run the route, the port will tell you expected throughput, you check if it's enough, if not, you add more drones (or just keep adding drones until it works 😛 )

[mint coral]

9 stacks i think per drone

!wikisearch drones

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=drones

[mint coral]

ya, nine

[teal tiger]

can i link 2 drones to the same destination?

[median heath]

Yes.

Single port can have as many incoming as you want.
But can be linked only to 1 outgoing.

[teal tiger]

kk so i need 4 provider to have 4 drones at 1 receiver

so if i wanna increase throughput due to travel time i need more provider ports

[median heath]

Yes.

[wind spade]

you technically only need 3, as one of them can be the receiving port

[teal tiger]

damn i need a battery factory

[wind spade]

you can power drones with other things than batteries (though batteries are pretty good)

[mint coral]

I use rocket fuel for my drones

[teal tiger]

does anybody know where this cave entrance is

[meager kettle]

above the lake, huge cave

above as in north

[teal tiger]

oh yea nvm found it

i was searching on the mountain

nvm wrong cave

[meager kettle]

two entrances

[versed minnow]

I need math help I feel like I’m going nuts

I don’t even know how to explain what my problem is here

I’m producing 240 copper ingots and turning them into wire with as few machines as possible by overclocking everything to the max (aside from the odd last one that doesn’t require being overclocked cause of the odd number)

If the constructor takes in 15 ingots per min as normal, 250% overclock speed means it’s taking in 37.5 ingots per min

It doesn’t mean it’s taking in 75 ingots a minute, that’s the output number since it’s 1 ingot into 2 wire right?

[meager kettle]

so far so good

[tropic hawk]

LLMs are ok to use IMO so long as you dont use it to create the final product. Using it to assist you in tasks would be fine

[versed minnow]

So the fastest I can produce wire with the smallest amount of machines (for the amount of ore I have) is 6 constructors all overclocked to the max to take in 37.5 per min, and then one last constructor underclocked to take in 15 per min for the last few remaining

Is that correct?

[meager kettle]

well not underclocked, but at 100% yes

[versed minnow]

Right yes sorry 100%

I’ve been getting so mixed up dealing with the different item rates on constructors. I’m trying to overclock everything so I have the least amount of machines

I’m just confusing myself at this point

I wish one of these satisfactory calculator tools had a way for me to factor in all the machines being overclocked

[knotty warren]

does this split 2 inputs into 3 outputs equally. im so tired and cannot fiqure the math out

[meager kettle]

no

[ionic sapphire]

the middle crate gets a full belt, the outer ones get half a belt

[versed minnow]

I would think the middle one gets more

You could merge the two belts and then separate that out into 3

[knotty warren]

belt speed limit

[versed minnow]

Hmmm

[knotty warren]

both inputs are 720

[meager kettle]

split each belt into 3, then merge one from each belt split into each other

[knotty warren]

Ok

[meager kettle]

like split into 1,2,3 and 4, 5, 6 then merge 1+4, 2+5, 3+6

[versed minnow]

I meant like….i wish satisfactory tools or something had the ability for me to set the machines to overclock and do the math for that

[ionic sapphire]

just divide machine count by overclock amount ?

i know its an extra step, but its a solution

[versed minnow]

Yeah that’s what I’ve been doing I’m just getting mixed up with all the numbers

I’m not the best at maths

[ionic sapphire]

or try a different calculator

[versed minnow]

I can’t find one that does it…

[meager kettle]

you can just calculate it fairly easily. 240/min in, 15 per machine, 240/15 = 16. then divide 16 with 2.5 = 6.4 which means 6 at 250% and the 0.4*2,5 = 1 = last machine at 100%

[versed minnow]

You say easy but what I’m seeing is scary numbers and extra steps for each factory lmao

I just wish one of these sites would do it for me

[meager kettle]

from what i've seen of the diffrent screenshots of tools they have even funkier decimal numbers :p

[versed minnow]

I wanted to overclock everything so I could have less machines and not risk stressing my ps5 out cause idk how good the game is at handling all those machines….

Or my ps5

[median heath]

Saving space is good even without hardware limits.
Power shards are infinite too.

[meager kettle]

well they become infinite at the end :p

[median heath]

They've always been infinite.

They just become more infinite with the 1.0 options.

[meager kettle]

well yes, but its annoying to wait for the doggos to find sluggos :p

[knotty warren]

now i need to figure out a clean way to connect them

[median heath]

Especially given I shoot the lizards on sight 😄

[versed minnow]

I’d probably do that?

[versed minnow]

Hat works too

That*

[knotty warren]

Just one belt from splitter to one merger right

[storm ingot]

I like to use lift stations for compact area splitter mergers because of how one can snap elevators to the cubes.

[versed minnow]

2 belts from each splitter go into one merger

And the mergers don’t connect to each other

[meager kettle]

thats wrong btw

[knotty warren]

Me?

[storm ingot]

The mergers there arent connecting

[meager kettle]

this is how you need to connect them

[storm ingot]

The inside lines clip through which causes a visual that the mergers are connected

[knotty warren]

thats how they are connected its just buggy

[versed minnow]

Yeesh

[knotty warren]

True

[versed minnow]

Are they doing this

[knotty warren]

this is exactly how i did them

[storm ingot]

Gottal love clipping!

[knotty warren]

now im making 1440 fuel per min

[storm ingot]

Personally, I like to use lift stations. Nice compact blocks for floor area. place one merger right between the two seperators, tuck space second merger on top between the two and have lift from that go down into the seperators, then can curl the middle outputs into a forward seperator. Top one you can cut to left, then lift the middle one, then can do the rightmost one. Wish I was in game to model it. Makes a nice tight block. Or you can keep it on the ground and drop down the midline after jogging the two off to the sides.

[prisma kraken]

dude... don't overthink

[zinc heart]

Hey folks. I am very new to actually playing Satisfactory, just getting to building my first coal power plant
I have done some rough planning, working with 3 x pure coal nodes, so 24 x coal generators
But I am struggling to figure water out: 8 x generators would need 360 m^3 water/min, which would be ok with 3 x water extractors, but: mk.1 pipelines cannot sustain such a flow
So what would be the ideal solution here to neatly supply water to my generators without making too big of a mess?
I'm building in a pretty nice area and want to keep things looking really neat/tidy and optimized
(I am aware that over-building and trying to be perfectly optimized for my first power plant is probably ridiculous, but I want to build this and leave it be for a bit, so I want to go a little overboard :3)

[median heath]

8 generators.
2 water extractors clocked to 150% each.
Plug them into the single water pipe at opposing ends of the 8 generators.

Simplest way to do it.

[mint coral]

!wikisearch cg

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=cg

[median heath]

As long as no single piece of pipe is being asked to move more than 300 you have have as much water per system as you want.

So if you have 180 going in each end, you have 360 in the total system without ever exceeding the limit.

P.S. Never think about pipes in terms of belts.

[vapid gorge]

what USB linked are very simple layouts for what you're talking about

[zinc heart]

Would it be safe to have a long pipeline for the second side?
Red lines are how I was hoping to lay the generators out (3 x lines of 8 generators), green lines for pipes/extractors

[vapid gorge]

sure

[vapid gorge]

basically what I did for my last one https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1488544511071096892/1488548489737535649/image.png?ex=69de51cf&is=69dd004f&hm=3e0653bb0883b91dee7d71fc25e87353b01b87c54fc127cb7ad7a2a25f0548b3&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

this is just 8 groups of 8. Nothing actually fancy about it

[zinc heart]

Gotcha, think that makes sense then

I am okay with having excessive pipes and such, got plenty of materials set ready to go for it, but just got a bit stuck on making the water flow right.
So I think that makes sense and I should be good to get this built and going, thanks folks!

I swear this game makes me want to cry and pull my hair out, but I keep coming back to it, it's quite addictive haha

[median heath]

What I am hearing is I need to get Ondar to put the 2 extractor method on the wiki for it to get any credence from Cobalt 😭

[vapid gorge]

in my example it is 2 extractors feeding 8 with the red lines 😛

git gud

[median heath]

I can't see anything with all that orange. 😏

[vapid gorge]

git less colour blind

though maybe I should make a proper example layout with better colours to use it for peeps.

it was a thrown together example but gets a fair bit of use

[median heath]

@zinc heart this is an example of 18 gens with a mk1.

The outer pipes have 300 each, the middle pipe has 210 but doesn't actually connect til the far end.
So the entire system has 810 water, but no single piece of pipe exceeds the limit so it works fine.

[zinc heart]

Yup, makes sense now

Is there a limit to how far water will pump (horizontally with no difference in height) before a pump is needed?

[median heath]

Nope.

Pumps are UP-only.

[zinc heart]

Sweet, so I should be fine to have a pump when it first comes up from the lake to machine-height, then I can just run it as long as needed

[median heath]

Aye.

[prisma kraken]

pumps aren't needed on pipes that do not change height. you always get ~10m of lift for free, but you want to stay under that or things get flaky w/o pumps

[prisma kraken]

as a no-frills version of the basic recipe, i find this build to be about the most straightforward as you can make

i've been favoring that build lately because on 5x power, i'm building a lot of them

[meager kettle]

how i usually do it :p

[median heath]

That one lonely, unconnected generator 😭

[meager kettle]

yea it was a naughty boy

my generators been having demons inside them lately

[median heath]

I still like overclocking Water because the 2 @ 1.5:8 ratio is just so clean compared to 3:8.

[median heath]

Did I get to show you my current coal setup?

[meager kettle]

the one above?

[median heath]

Oh no, that's from an old oil build where I didn't have fuel gens unlocked so I changed byproduct to Coke.

[median heath]

This is current:

[little rapids]

it finally happened..... 70GW is no longer enough power......

i've just been plugging stuff in without a care in the world for the last 30 hours so this was inevitable

what does the typical phase 5 power grid look like........

[glass flame]

when i had all things running to produce the elevator items i needet 150-170k 🙂

[median heath]

I beat the game on 22 GW yesterday 😬

[glass flame]

oh wow thats nice

[little rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/seal-waves-galumph-misc-gif-gif-13507897412796468150

[glass flame]

but then you had nothing overclocked or slopped right ?

[little rapids]

yeah that's what i was expecting

i went from using 15GW to 70GW just setting up the ai expansion servers

and probably some other stuff i forgot

[median heath]

The exact opposite.

[glass flame]

crazy how you did this with this kind of power

[wind spade]

Power poles and power lines

[little rapids]

a power pole mk 3 hates to see me coming....

i can't remember the math i did for my turbofuel power plant and i only have this that i drew like 2 months ago 😭

[median heath]

4 Max OC and Somer'd Manufacturers that produce all Project Parts is only 2.8 GW?

[glass flame]

hm ok

[little rapids]

yeah i think i'm using so much power because i have 4 million modular factories running all at once

[median heath]

The only somer'd thing I did not OC was the Particle Accel.

[little rapids]

those things are power guzzlers

i plugged one in and my grid failed 💔

[median heath]

Somer'd at 250% it consumes 20 GW per machine 😄

[little rapids]

well i guess it was like my 20th

yeahhh

[glass flame]

thats what i did 😄

they take alot of power ya

[median heath]

Yeah I somer'd it but left it at 100% clock.

[little rapids]

i locked in and built this while binge-watching the last 3 seasons of house (i think i did this in 2 sittings)

[brisk urchin]

this one was my first "big"one

[median heath]

I want to love this...

[little rapids]

holy tuff

[brisk urchin]

that

[median heath]

But then I see Fluid Buffers 😭

[brisk urchin]

this is only 780 oil

i was planing to do 2550 in the crater

[glass flame]

how much power producing this ?

[little rapids]

yeah mine's 600

[glass flame]

144gw ?

[brisk urchin]

i think it was about 170?

idk lme calculate

yes 175 exactly

[little rapids]

mine has the capacity for 1000 rocket fuel (i think i said turbofuel before) i don't remember how much it makes rn

[brisk urchin]

nuclear too?

[glass flame]

yup 🙂 1tw

[brisk urchin]

aww why not the 1.9 :(

[glass flame]

kinda lagging when i am near this area 😄

[brisk urchin]

lol

[little rapids]

real

i built all my rocket fuel in blue crater so i can definitely expand

i'm only using 600 oil rn

[brisk urchin]

i was planing to make a lot of power with max 2100 uranium and 2 spots with rocket but i just have too litle sulfur for all of it

simply too litle on the map

[unique cypress]

SAM and make more kekw

[little rapids]

blue crater and the little spot at the top of the map in the desert are the only spots i've found that seem to clump all the fuel materials with a sulfur node

everything else is pretty spread out

[brisk urchin]

well...

ehhhh idk ig i have too eventualy

for what is the sam used anyways if not conversion

[unique cypress]

Ficsonium and matrices mostly

[brisk urchin]

idk if i wana do much matrices

probably gna be for that one sommersloop mod

and ficsonium is eeeh

[little rapids]

i haven't even touched ficsonium yet urrghh

i've been procrastinating nuclear and ficsonium since i unlocked it

[brisk urchin]

in my 900h i never built actual nuclear stuff, only calculated a HECK lot

i may do it in my save im playing atm

[median heath]

Plutonium Waste takes hundreds of hours to even start being a problem with proper storage.

[brisk urchin]

hmmm i might just store it ig

i had a blueprint with over 150 storages

shouldnt be a problem

[median heath]

Ficsonium is one of the few "mistakes" I attribute to 1.0

[little rapids]

yeah but "proper storage" is just building a ton of containers far away..... and that's boring.........

[brisk urchin]

better than nothing ig

[little rapids]

when i eventually do it i'm probably gonna make plutonium fuel rods with the waste and just sink them

i don't wanna have to think about overflowing containers i have enough of those already 😭

[brisk urchin]

i thought about that but wasting 22.4 rods p minute is not my deal

thats just too much GW wasted

[little rapids]

fair

[brisk urchin]

i think 800?

[little rapids]

it'll probably depend on where my grid is at when i get to it

[median heath]

That's why I don't like Ficsonium.
We already had waste-free nuclear. And then using Plutonium was a choice.

Adding another layer to make all nuclear waste-free was just.. 😭

[brisk urchin]

i probably calculated that wrong but aparently its only 560

do gens use up 0.1 per minute?

!wikisearch plutonium

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=plutonium

[little rapids]

i think so yeah

[brisk urchin]

ye 0.1

[median heath]

50.4 at 0.2 + 22.4 at 0.1 was previous max nuke.

[little rapids]

trying to use my hoverpack while my grid is down.... sigh

is there a common area people build their nuclear in? i've been eyeing the mountain between the coast and the desert cuz i never go up there and there's a uranium node smack in the middle

ofc i forgot to toggle the node

it's impure but it's there

two pure sulfur

[wind spade]

That layer is for sinkless nuclear 🙂

[little rapids]

we're back 🙏

barely

i wonder if i should just sloop my blenders

i have a 600 pipe and a 400 pipe

this is my setup for my generator tower(?) (which is gonna get one more layer)

1000 rocket fuel goes into 240 generators for uhhhhh

[oblique hollow]

Not worth it squeezing more though the same pipea tbh

[little rapids]

60GW damn

[little rapids]

i mean i've got lots of room to maneuver stuff

i could divide it up into pipes of 400

or instead of 5 at 200/min i could do 4 at 250/min and get 500 rocket fuel per pipe

cuz it's just these ones making fuel

[little rapids]

okay what did i do why is it like this now

my capacity plummeted by 10GW even though i just added extra power

[glass flame]

Looks like few Gens dont got any fuel

[little rapids]

but i did my math right they should be overfueled rn

[glass flame]

Ya same on me i did 2400 rocket fuel into 256 Gens

[little rapids]

i think it stabilized

i have a GW or two of geyser power so a little fluctuation is normal

but going from 78GW to 68GW is strange

[glass flame]

Ya thats insane

[little rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/noticing-eye-eye-emoji-horse-horse-eye-emoji-gif-8243655453359328684

overclocked right........

cuz i'm doing 1000 into 240........

[glass flame]

All 256 ya 🤣

[little rapids]

okay phew

[glass flame]

To 562

But there is a a issue aswell idk i stopped trouble shooting

It worked for arround 100h straigt or something then it started few Gens dont get enough fuel🤣 blender dont produce.... oil flow... fuck it

[little rapids]

real

[glass flame]

I also got a big tower only with fuel, but same problem there🤣🤣

[little rapids]

i tried to have all my pipes flowing downward into my machines to avoid sloshing but idk if i was successful

[glass flame]

Looks like yes 😊

[little rapids]

i'm done with vertical liquids all my other fuels are on the same level 😭

[glass flame]

I just placed a blueprint who produces 1tw rocket fuel i hate trouble shooting

And i dont understand why it was working before and it stopped randomly🤣🤣 and I changed nothing i was not even near it for days

[little rapids]

the joys of pipe logistics

[glass flame]

Yes I hate it

When you try to build a turret or bring the Gas Fluid vertical its horrible🤣

[little rapids]

evil and malicious

honestly i gave up so long ago that i've just been overfilling my single-source/line pipes a little bit to compensate for the slosh cuz i was so pissed off by it

[glass flame]

Ya same thats why i placed the blueprint works fine since them no problems

[little rapids]

i think i have 2 or 3 pipes that are actually perfectly balanced and it's one tiny water loop and a dark matter output to input

i should probably blueprint my stuff too tbh

i haven't figured out how to make the auto-connect work yet

[glass flame]

I just finished my quantum prozessor blueprint😅

[little rapids]

sounds fancy.....

[glass flame]

And super computer

[glass flame]

You can test it if you want

[little rapids]

i actually just finished my quantum processor factory 😭

"factory" and it's some dinky little thing i threw together in 25 minutes

isn't she beautiful

do you upload your blueprints to the satisfactory calculator/save editor or the satisfactory tools site

[deep citrus]

How many do it make

[little rapids]

6 per minute

they're only used for portals and ai servers and since you only need i think 256 ai servers for phase 5 i didn't go crazy

[glass flame]

Yes they getting published soon when i got rights from the Administrator to publish it

[little rapids]

yaaayy

i've never really looked at blueprints made by others

sometimes i do for build/decor inspo

but not really logistics stuff

[glass flame]

Since i finished phase 5 i just create blueprints🤣

Also made one for normal computers 😊 woud be nice to have one who test it

[glass flame]

Sadly cant send it to you

[limpid vapor]

does "max consumption" not account for clock speed adjustments?

[unique cypress]

it does but only after the machine runs 1 cycle with said changed clock speed

[tawny chasm]

pretty sure it does

[brisk urchin]

it does 100%

[limpid vapor]

sure, interesting

its just that my max consumption is somehow super far above my actual consumption to the point where i dont think i coul possibly have that many idle machines

we're talking like 60% increase

[outer vale]

lots of trains/stations?

[limpid vapor]

yes, but surely that would not add up to that? idk... maybe?

it just seems like a lot

ahh... 50MW for each platform, so only 20 to add up to 1 gw

that must be it then, it just seems like a ludicrous increase

[rain lichen]

can someone explain to me how the watertower effect TRULY works with pipes?

like
is there a way to easily apply it on a mass scale? (like a HUGE amount of pipes)

[dusky dust]

I mean, keep in mind two things: 1) it relies on sort-of side effects of the fluid simulation which may not actually survive if CSS ever does decide to start tweaking things in there, and 2) Pumps are practically free. :D

I realize that doesn't answer your actual question in the slightest, but IMO the "water tower" thing just isn't worth bothering with, especially if you're planning on rolling it out on a large scale. Good luck diagnosing problems on a complex pipe network when your headlift relies on glitches, etc. :)

[vapid gorge]

you don't.
don't connect all your pipes together
just use pumps

pumps are basically free

[vapid gorge]

as for 'how they work' they are just over complicated pumps

[oblique hollow]

You would need to connect all pipe systems and ensure they are always full.

Head lift is only shared between full pipes.

But connecting everything is counterproductive because you want things seperated so you can troubleshoot it, fix it and be done with it

[vapid gorge]

once liquid gets to a height, it'll reach that height again and you connect everything up. Which you really really don't want to do

[rain lichen]

[oblique hollow]

It simply isnt worth it to save 4 MW just to make a mess out of your pipes

[zinc heart]

Apparently, the water I planned to use at my coal plant is not deep enough for water extractors 😭 all that planning, haha

[vapid gorge]

grassy fields? go north north west, 4 coal nodes next to a circle lake (past a cliff)

[zinc heart]

I'm in the first starter desert area I think?
This was where I was going to build, as there's 3 pure coal nodes here, and the waterfall follows straight down to my base area

[vapid gorge]

the lakes right there should be plenty deep

if you find it awkward, just go north. bunch of coal and the beach

[zinc heart]

Not according to the game, tried every spot in the two big lakes there (one has SAM in the middle, where the marker is) and it says it must be placed in deeper water
So looks like I'm going to be going north and building my plant far away haha

[dusky dust]

Those are "crater lakes" and it's one of the common spots for folks' first coal gens; as CobaltOfDoom said, those should be plenty deep. I've built there quite frequently myself

Not sure about the water at the bottom of the waterfall, but the stuff at the top on that plateau should be fine

[zinc heart]

Yeah, right at the top is where I'm trying to build, then running power towers down the waterfall to my base (already chainsaw'd the whole area ready for it)

I think my game is bugged. I'm trying the deep water near my hub, and still the same "must be placed on deep water"

[mint coral]

Start a thread in #1038092680493801533 and add lots of pictures locations and such so we can help. Add all data you can think of

[zinc heart]

Any data in particular I should add? I'll get a few photos of the pop up it shows

[mint coral]

Not sure tbh. Just anything you think will be usefull.

[zinc heart]

https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/1493627500855824404

[silent scarab]

This can’t be posted because it contains content blocked by this server. This may also be viewed by server owners.
Okay, so links aren't allowed or what, anyways, found a satisfactory modeler calculation fix

just set it to partially full

[median heath]

What is Satisfactory Modeler?

[mint coral]

its a planning tool free on steam

[median heath]

Built into the game or is it a mod?

[mint coral]

niether its stand alone

I think it may have a overlay feature though

[median heath]

I am confused, but 🤷‍♂️

[mint coral]

its essentially building a simplyfied version of your factory before you build it in game. Its not my jam but some ppl love it

[dusky dust]

It's a planning/layout tool which also does a lot of the math for you as you build. It's awfully popular nowadays

It's got some handy features like being able to wrap up sections of your factory into a "module" or whatever (I don't know the term they use) so you've got a big box which takes in these six resources and spits out these three, etc.

And if you want to rebalance your plans or whatever as you're planning it'll propagate all the math through the system

I've never used it myself, but you'll eventually get used to seeing its graphs pasted everywhere. :D

[median heath]

Oh my confusion lies in:

What does bug-fixing for "NotActuallySatis" have to do with math-and-meta?

But again, 🤷‍♂️ I'm not stressing.

[mint coral]

ya, idk that has its own discord and such as it is, it's own thing

Personally I prefer just hard numbers from a spreadsheet or tools then i can figure the rest out easily

[tropic hawk]

honestly I don't even do a spreadsheet, just use a bit of greeny's tools to help with visualization of about what it would generally be, a notepad for the recipes and building count, and then I just run and gun from there

[mint coral]

Honestly.... I started playing this game to give me the excuse and drive to learn how to use spreadsheets lol. Tying learning to something fun is a great way to retain information

this playthorough though has been super chill. Ive given up on the spreadsheets and i have been just saving links to the tools layouts lol

[tropic hawk]

true. I am using a minecraft geopol server as an excuse to learn python and SQL for designing a wealth tracker database.

[mint coral]

happy to say ive found a love for this game through this though ^_^.

[median heath]

"Super chill" is code for "max Cooling System build" right?

[mint coral]

sure.....

[median heath]

😁

[prisma kraken]

fake water is the bane of my existance

[versed minnow]

Is this the best way to split 480 into 300 and 180

[vast jungle]

for certain definitions of "best", yes... for others, no...

[versed minnow]

Least splitters and mergers…cleanest

[dusky dust]

Can also manifold it instead, of course -- no need to actually try and get the splits exact.

[vast jungle]

least splitters would use a single splitter... and then just wait until the 180 sink slowly fills the belt... at this point the single splitter will split 180/300

[dusky dust]

Or alternatively, if this isn't the first set of machines after a miner, you could do separate banks of machines -- one which produces 180, and the other produces 300

[vast jungle]

the trick with SF splitters is that they try to split even, but if they cant they redirect the rest to the other output(s)

[versed minnow]

I’m making the ingots at the deposit and then moving the ingots to two different factories

[vast jungle]

as long as one of the factory can only take 180/min, a single splitter will be fine

[dusky dust]

Okay, so have one set of smelters (or whatever) to output the 180, and another set to output the 300. :)

[vast jungle]

the zero splitter solution? 😄

[versed minnow]

That would definitely be smarter. 😔

[vast jungle]

and under/overclocking makes this easy to do

[versed minnow]

I overclock everything to save space

[dusky dust]

Of course technically you're just pushing the required "splitting" back one step. You've gotta divide up the material coming out of the miner, after all

So you've still gotta divide up that stream of ore via a balancer or manifold or hybrid or whatever you want to do

The "problem's" still there, but once you're at your first processing step, at least, it's easy to just divide stuff up and have dedicated sets of machines

[versed minnow]

My two separate factories are done in such a way that they take 180 per min and 300 per min so if one splitter would be enough and then just let it back up then I can try that

[sterile magnet]

look at this

[dusky dust]

Fuse them wires!

[vast jungle]

not sure I ever used one of these two 😄 perfect to hold back!

[meager kettle]

Fused quick wire came in handy for nuclear

[vast jungle]

trading up for quickwire sounds more useful than downtrading for normal wire...

[dusky dust]

On the other hand, if you've got some nearby Caterium you're not using anyway, it's a nice way to beef up production. And it's a nice fast recipe, too

[meager kettle]

Saving on copper is useful if you go hard on nuclear

And you do have more caterium nodes than you really use

[median heath]

If I want burst-capacity normal wire I just use the straight Caterium Wire alt. 120-300/min from a single Constructor is hard to beat 😄

[meager kettle]

I just remembered my nuclear where I had a normal caterium and copper and managed to get enough (6000+) quick wire with pure ingots and fused quickwire

[old plover]

now imagine what you can do with leached 🤤

[meager kettle]

Less :p

Pure copper and caterium was a perfect ratio. Leached making less copper but more caterium would make less due to copper limit

[tropic hawk]

looking at the actual ratios of copper and caterium, its fascinating that the FW uses less copper than the FQW.

[median heath]

Leached is one of the recipe types I will never touch 😄

[dusky dust]

It's awfully situational, yeah

Though you do really have to work hard to actually exhaust sulfur on the map

[meager kettle]

Gotta save the sulfur for instant scrap :p

[dusky dust]

So if you've got some lying around nearby, it's not the worst idea to grab some to beef up your production

[meager kettle]

Actually not hard. 3300 sulfur for nuclear, 4100 for instant scrap and 3200 for rokit fuel. Uses all sulfur save 300 :p

[median heath]

💛

[dusky dust]

I'd argue that for 98% of players, that qualifies as "hard." :)

[median heath]

Ionized Fuel my beloved.
No sulfur required 🙂

[meager kettle]

You sure about that? :p

[median heath]

100%

[meager kettle]

Where you get that sulfur free rocket fuel from to make ionized

[median heath]

The magic of somers.
If you somersloop all of your RF Blenders and 1/15th of your Turbofuel -- the Compacted Coal byproduct of RF and IF exactly matches the input needed for Turbo.
No sulfur, no coal required.

[sterile magnet]

and I also have iron wire.
I think the game is trying to tell me something

[meager kettle]

Sound like a lot of sloops

[median heath]

Excerpt from earlier:

Compacted:
Somerslooping all Rocket Fuel Blenders gives you the 22.5 out of 24 Compacted as we discussed.

22.5/24 = 15/16
So you need 1 "less" Turbofuel's worth of Compacted per 16 machines if you're going to make it completely closed.
Solution: Somer 1/15th of your Turbo. That way 15 machines counts as 16 machines without needing that 1.5 extra Compacted/min.
Perfectly closed loop, eliminating the need for sulfur and coal entirely from the production of Ionized

So you somer all RF and 1/15th of Turbo = completely closed loop for Compacted when making Ionized.

[finite sparrow]

Hello, I've just reached the end of phase 3 (almost) and I only need to make Adaptive Control Units. Before I start making my factories, I always plan them beforehand so I can optimize everything. The attached image is what I have came with, with a target of 2 ACUs/m.

So this would be my first ever mega factory and im not really sure how I want to manage this. There are some weird splits that are preventing me from using clean splitter and merger cuts so I dont really know how to deal with those splits.

I initially thought of creating a train network (it would be my first good one) where I mass produce individual components and then deliver them each to modular factories. For example, delivering Silica to a Circuit board and High-seed connector factories, then delivering those connectors and board to wherever they need to be used etc. I got the idea from this reddit post from 6y ago https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/fyjaab/map_wide_train_network_the_distributed_strategy/ but I dont really get how I would be making the splits either.

I would appreciate some insight into this! Thanks

[median heath]

Give me a minute to load into that save and I can give you an exact number.

[meager kettle]

It's an interesting idea tho

Since prob would end up making shards and ionized just for the dmr

[brisk urchin]

what i see in that image i believe it is not optimised

[tropic hawk]

you will enjoy your caterium wire.

[brisk urchin]

copper and caterium need pure or other recepie, could even use some mixed wire, and the oil is just no

[finite sparrow]

Not optimized in what way? The values are calculated after setting a target of 2 ACUs

[median heath]

1000 Ionized/min takes 10 Somers @meager kettle

[brisk urchin]

no i mean choosen the not optimal recepies

anything else isnt optimising

[meager kettle]

That's more than I though

[brisk urchin]

because there are calculators

[median heath]

You need only 2 RF Blenders if you overclock them to 250%, so that's 8 and then you need 2 for the 1 Turbo Ref.

[wind spade]

how do you define "optimal recipe"?

[meager kettle]

Yea, it's just I seem to recall needing like 6000-ish ionized to cope with the dmr requirements so that would be 60-ish sloops plus the 20-ish for ficsite

[median heath]

Benefits are best jetpack fuel in the game and infinite shards. So I find it worth, and the fact you can closed-loop both Compacted and the DMR means you need only 3 inputs: Oil, Nitric Acid, Quartz.

Which is ridiculous that I am making Ionized Fuel from 3 inputs 😄

[brisk urchin]

dont discuss this now please

im kinda tired of it

[median heath]

Oh, my DMR doesn't go out from this facility. It's completely contained to make the DMC's needed for the Shards.

[wind spade]

I mean you're the one that used the term without explaining it

[brisk urchin]

the most resorce to product efficient combination of alts or normal recepies

not thinking about machine count or MW

[median heath]

So...

[brisk urchin]

and especialy not thinking what diffrent resorces are needed

[median heath]

Your definition of "most optimized" is specific to you, personally, because you're choosing to ignore certain metrics others may care about?

[wind spade]

well, you'll still need to define how do you value each resource compared to the others

[brisk urchin]

how rare it is on the map and how often it is used

for example iron gets kind of low in that ranking, caterium or sulfur moves up

[wind spade]

how often it's used depends on the player 😛

[finite sparrow]

In my case, I want it to be the easiest to build. That means, less different buildings and materials. I agree with you that I can remove the Oil from there and use alternates to remove the plastic need

[brisk urchin]

the same with nitro

[brisk urchin]

im still thinking about my methode

[brisk urchin]

no not remove oil, atleadt use the recycled combo

[wind spade]

whatever you prefer and works for you is your "best". There's no generic best way to do something, so feel free to experiment and go out of the normal ways to find whatever works for you

if you want easiest to build, you probably don't want the recycled combo

[finite sparrow]

yeah I know but thats why I came here haha. I dont really know what the most clean way of making this factory would be. Needed some insight

[wind spade]

well again, "clean" is kinda subjective (same as "easiest")

[median heath]

If you want to use less different materials -- switch to Caterium Circuit Board and you can drop the need for Quartz entirely.
This also allows you to eliminate Copper if you want, but that's another alternate choice that I'll bring up only if you wish.

Plastic -- look into the Recycled Loop so you have no byproduct to deal with. Just Oil -> Plastic, done.

[brisk urchin]

least complicated is basicaly leaving ever alternative be and sticking to the standard ones

[wind spade]

honestly I'd just open some calculator and put the product in, see what it comes with, and toggle recipes to see the different options

[tough swift]

how u guys get this crazy workflows? 😭

[finite sparrow]

I spent 1h yesterday making it bro

[brisk urchin]

thats midgame

pretty standard

[tough swift]

I mean

The image

[brisk urchin]

a calculator

[finite sparrow]

you mean the app im using?

[tough swift]

yeah

[wind spade]

there's several pinned in #math-and-meta

[finite sparrow]

its satisfactory moddeler

[wind spade]

modeler (as they use) is one of them, most manual of them all

[finite sparrow]

let me take a look into this

because it sounds really nice

[tough swift]

I recently reached mid game and this will help me a lot 😭

[median heath]

Caterium CB + Caterium Wire would remove both Qtz and Cu from your needs.
Meaning all you require is Fe, Limestone, Ct, and Oil.

[wind spade]

might also want to check others, to see whichever suits you. For some cases modeler can take e.g. a hour to do somehting, that other calculators do in seconds

[brisk urchin]

i already know u wna glaze yours XD

[wind spade]

no?

[brisk urchin]

alr

[median heath]

Greeny can you check my math on something?

[wind spade]

I'm just saying that modeler is a lot of manual work, and practically every other tool does automatic calculations

[tough swift]

I believe any tool will help me anyway, i caught me yesterday torturing myself with a calculator and a dream to make something optimal

I failed

[wind spade]

you can try me, but my current energy is very low so I might postpone it to tomorrow if it turns out to be something above my current capability lol

[finite sparrow]

yeah I like moddeler because its easy to personalize, I honestly find the others confusing

even if its more work for me

[wind spade]

if you ever want to give others a shot, feel free to ask around here

[median heath]

Looking at the Converter, trying to see if there is ever a time it is "cheaper" for a single resource if you convert twice/multiple times.

Example: Copper -> Bauxite straight up is 1 Cu = 0.66_ Baux
But if you go Copper -> Caterium -> Bauxite it is 1 Cu = 0.64 Baux
Which is really close.

[wind spade]

I assume ignoring SAM costs?

[median heath]

Yes. SAM being a non-factor.

[wind spade]

hm... I think there was some math done on this topic, but I don't remember who/when/where

[median heath]

The only other chain I see is Qtz -> Ct, one sec.

[wind spade]

I assume you know of this?

[median heath]

Qtz -> Ct straight is 1:1
Qtz -> Cu -> Ct is 0.96:1

[median heath]

👀

[wind spade]

and I'm almost 100% sure that any loop will yield less than you initially had

[median heath]

Ah, I didn't scroll down the page because SOMEONE made this in a weird order...

Iron to Baux looks like a chain worth exploring.

Given amounts of iron.

[old plover]

look at your machine count, it won't be a mega factory. What I like to do on modeler is to delete all miner, so that I can have a good look on all the inputs I need. It REALLY helps with the logistics

[wind spade]

not sure if this makes it more useful but I tried something

[median heath]

May help, just need a couple minutes 💛

[wind spade]

(ignoring uranium as it's dead end)

added sink points, initially thought the ratios are based on sink point ratio, but it's not really true

seems it has a different "value" system

[finite sparrow]

You meant this?

[finite sparrow]

Thanks for the suggestion, this actually improved it a lot

Now I have another question. How do I manage this weird splits? Fe 40/7/28 plastic.

I dont know if this would be a waste of time as im just making 1 supercomputer per minute you know. Maybe its better to have a component delivery system and have individual factories that each do just one thing?

What I mean is, mass producing plastic somewhere, then moving that plastic to a factory that mass produces AI Limiters, Circuit boards and Highspeed connectors

And then repeat the same process for the AI Limiters, distribute them across all the factories where I need AI Limiters....

Bro how is this midgame 😭

[old plover]

you manifold, 75 plastic on a single belt, branching off to 40 which will fill up, then to the 7 which will also fill up, the 28 leftover will go to the 28, no need to load balance

[finite sparrow]

I think Ill stick to the mass produce everything and deliver, having a "factory" to just produce 5 rotors seems like a waste

[median heath]

You and I define "midgame" differently 😉

[finite sparrow]

you mean im still in early game? 🤣

[median heath]

By my definition, you're still in the tutorial, yes.

"Early Game" is Phase 4 to me.

@wind spade
1.5 Cu is 1 Bx
1.25 Ct is 1 Bx

Cu > Ct > Bx is 1.5625 : 1
So straight Cu > Bx is better.

Fe > S > Cu > Bx is 3.75 : 1
Fe > C > S > Cu > Bx is also 3.75 : 1
Fe > C > Qtz > Cu > Bx is also 3.75 : 1
Fe > C > Qtz > Ct > Bx is also 3.75 : 1

Qtz > Ct and Qtz > Cu are what fuck up any fun loops... 🙁

Because Qtz > Ct is 1:1
Where Qtz > Cu is 5/6 : 1
Which... 1 * 1.25 = 1.25, 5/6 * 1.5 = 1.25.....

[wind spade]

I love your chemical letters and then "Bx" 😄

[median heath]

And Qtz 😉

Because who has time for SiO4.

[wind spade]

Al2O3 2H2O better 😛

[median heath]

But anyway

The Quartz to Cu/Ct ratios are such that the Cu/Ct > Bx ratios are identical.
Which is just.. poo.

[wind spade]

fun comes when you sloop

[median heath]

So either Cu > Bx if you want to use Copper or Fe > S > Cu > Bx if you want to use Iron.
I hate objectively best things....

[median heath]

1 Bx = 1.2 Qtz = 1 Cu = 2/3 Bx
If you need to somer ONE stage of this loop, where would you put it?
Would you make the Cu = 4/3, the Qtz = 2, or the Bx = 2.4?

Or does it even matter?

Oh, it doesn't.. because multiplication doesn't care where you put the x2... I am dumb.

[wind spade]

well it matters when you start thinking about per minute numbers

because one sloop can have different effect based on recipe

but assuming unlimited sloops, it doesn't matter, yeah

[median heath]

I mean, it comes down to:
1 Copper = 0.66 Baux
1 Iron = 0.266 Baux
1 Baux = 0.333 extra Baux if you somer it

So if you have a pure Baux node and you loop it into itself, 1200 = 1600, just add SAM.

5 Converters @ 2.4 Bx -> Qtz
6 Converters @ 2.4 Qtz -> Cu
4 Converters @ 2.4 Cu -> Bx

So the best stage to somer is Cu -> Bx as it is 1 less machine.

120 + 144 + 96 = 360 Reanimated SAM
1440 SAM ore needed.

Out of 10k total SAM, not bad.

Which makes this area a completely different picture in my mind:

[oblique hollow]

Ore Alchemy my beloved

[oblique hollow]

do two sloops of 1.5 each for a total of 2.25x sloop per 2 sloops

since you can just insert one sloop into a converter instead of 2

and just put the 2 into different converters

[median heath]

Brain fuzzy, expound?

[oblique hollow]

2 sloops in a converter give a 2 x mult

one sloop gives 1.5x mult

sloop 2 parts of the chain for a total mult of the initial resources by 2.25 x (1.5 x 1.5)

[median heath]

So here:
Instead of x8 somers in the final 4, putting x9 somers (4 in final, 5 in initial) would yield more?

5 Converters @ 2.4 Bx -> Qtz
6 Converters @ 2.4 Qtz -> Cu
4 Converters @ 2.4 Cu -> Bx

[oblique hollow]

im currently investigating

[median heath]

(thinking out loud)
But wouldn't it change how many you needed in the steps 2 and 3 if you put more into 1?

[oblique hollow]

technically yes but again, it is multiplicative bonus

i think the sam cost would increase

lemme check...

[oblique hollow]

240% i assume then

[median heath]

Yes.

[oblique hollow]

so 1200%, 1440% and 960% total

ok the amount of converters needed would actually change.
thus probably increasing the required sloop amount

i forgot that part. you get more ore per step and thus need more converters to process it all

[median heath]

1 sloop is 1.5x right?

[oblique hollow]

in converters yes

all converters at 240%
top one only has 8 sloops total inserters, for a 2x boost.
bottom ones need like 12 sloops so this doesnt work out as i thought

[median heath]

I don't understand this visual.

[oblique hollow]

modeler moment.
the purple circle means "slooped"

a full circle means "fully slooped"

red circle just means "overclocked" in this case to 240%

[median heath]

Put sloops in 1 and 3, not 2 and 3?

[oblique hollow]

yeah i can try that

that way, 11 somers get me 1200 = 2592 total
if i subtract the 1200 i get 1392 bauxite generated

1104 for slooping the last 4
1392 for slooping first 5 and last 6

[median heath]

So it comes down to whether one believes 3 somers are worth 288 bauxite 🤔

[oblique hollow]

sooo yes it apparently is just worse

SAM cost is worse and so is bauxite efficiency

[median heath]

Using 8 is 138 Bx/Somer
Using 11 is 126.54 Bx/Somer, yeah.

Weird how getting more is actually worse 😄

[oblique hollow]

because you need more machines which need more sloops

[median heath]

Yeah.

[oblique hollow]

if you could infinitely overclock then i bet it would be different

[median heath]

Unrelated: Fluid Trains need to have 3 I/O's instead of 2 😭

[oblique hollow]

honestly trains overall would be ok with 3 I/O's
the trucks in 1.2 are pretty solid and a valid alternative.
and the train stations are big

[median heath]

And the way I would change the model is to just have the 3 OUTs across the top and the 3 INs across the bottom.

[meager kettle]

SiO2 :p

[median heath]

1.0 is when they broke it.
With the mk5, there's a point where fluid trains were better.
The intro of the mk6 belt made it not even close.. 🙁

[oblique hollow]

just let us load trucks onto trains and all is well

like.... just grab the truck itself

[median heath]

Mk3 pipe. Surely no slosh issues 😏

[wind spade]

well, mk3 slosh will be double of mk2 slosh 😄

[oblique hollow]

quadruple

[median heath]

Which is why I don't want a mk3. I just want a 3rd I/O to make fluid trains relevant.

[oblique hollow]

mk 2 is already 4 x worse than mk 1 because slosh scales quadratically with flow speed

[wind spade]

fluid trains are imo relevant

[median heath]

That is a fair opinion.
The math concerning the mk6 makes them not 🤷‍♂️
Yes, there is the matter of "choice" and I'm not going to debate that.
But in terms of throughput potential, the mk6 belt makes them obsolete. The mk5 did not.

[oblique hollow]

there is the pain of packaging tho

is it worth it to build a giant packaging array vs just going with another train car

[old plover]

1.2 did increase their capacity, considering they already completely revamped wheeled vehicles automation twice, it's not over for fluid freights

[wind spade]

yeah that's a big tradeoff

[median heath]

Capacity isn't the issue. Throughput is.

Which is why 3rd I/O fixes it.

[oblique hollow]

like with mk 6 belts it takes a huge amount of effort and commitment to make full use of them for moving a fluid

making packager arrays on both ends

yes you can do Blueprints to reduce the amount of work

but still, i think that takes up more space than another freight platform

[old plover]

I understand, but my point is they're probably thinking about fixing fluid freights

[median heath]

Depends on the fluid, since packagers have different rates for all of them.

[oblique hollow]

nitrogen will always remain supreme when packaged due to the awful way gas interacts with buffers and just the amount of it you need

but you can just use drones there

since its so compact

[old plover]

yea I never understand why I would use an ungodly amount of aluminum just so I can use solid trains instead of fluid ones

gas packaging only makes sense for fueling drones and trucks

[meager kettle]

You don't "use" the aluminium

[oblique hollow]

well you can reuse the canister

drones can pick up empty bottles and drop off full ones in one go, and vice versa

[prisma kraken]

honestly, if you limit the transfers per car/frieght station to 300/min, you end up find with fluid trains doing the right thing. more than that and you're being silly

[old plover]

yea I dropped the whole package recycling when we could use blenders for diluted fuel lol, hate that setup for some reason

[oblique hollow]

its only a fixed amount of aluminum you have to invest, not a constant budget of it

[oblique hollow]

i find it pretty charming in some way

[prisma kraken]

that's about what you can do per car with a single train on a loop

[oblique hollow]

900/min should be doable per car in theory with mk 2 pipes

[meager kettle]

The capacity buff to fluid cars in 1.2 actually helps a lot

[oblique hollow]

oh right that helps bridge the lockdown phase a bit, right?

[prisma kraken]

i'm speaking more about the car capacity on a modestly sized loop

[old plover]

what I hope to see is packaged distilled silica

[oblique hollow]

distilled silica is so silly

[old plover]

you mispelled awesome

[median heath]

Quartz Purification is one of my favorite loops.

[oblique hollow]

why did they invent a new fluid JUST for an alt recipe combo??

[prisma kraken]

they need to add a packaging recipe for that

[old plover]

I find that combo SO elegant I'm so glad they did that for quartz

[oblique hollow]

like yes i get it it is cool but it is SO.... awkward to do that
It just feels obsolete

it has one use only.

i would be fine with it if they gave it like one more recipe

[meager kettle]

Should've gone all the way with distilled silica and let us skew ratio of crystals to silica

[oblique hollow]

either to use it in or to make it with

[old plover]

yea I'd be fine with that too

[oblique hollow]

im really not a fan of single purpose single use items

it feels... lazy in a way

[median heath]

Blender HSC recipes that're basically SilHSC / SilCB but take liquid silica input? 👀

[oblique hollow]

when basically everything else is multipurpose

[oblique hollow]

aluminum ingot alt that uses alumina and distilled silica

[median heath]

Would adding these make the recipe "better" for you?

[meager kettle]

I like quartz purification but it's mostly a one time build to get a starting amount of both. But it's too late for it. I usually find I need more crystals or silica, rarely both and not in the ratio that gives. Tho it is fun to setup

[oblique hollow]

it would make it more interesting to use

[median heath]

Starting amount?

[oblique hollow]

gives factories some more dynamics

[median heath]

I set it up for mass production in what most people consider "late game" to feed all the lines that need both materials.
Like HSC and Osc.

[old plover]

I'm already using quartz purification to send silica into my aluminum factory

[meager kettle]

I need a lot of quartz for decorative purposes :p

[old plover]

I thought of exactly that lol

[median heath]

Yes, "starting" lines are for decorative purposes.

[oblique hollow]

distilled silica in particle accelerator for.... purposes

[old plover]

I used it mainly for silica first but knowing I'll need ungodly amounts of quartz crystals for diamonds, i'm getting there, 1550 quartz crystals have been sinked for the past 200 hours 😬

[oblique hollow]

thats the part about distilled silica thats annoying.
you dont get any fine control over the ratio and thats where another recipe would have been really cool for it

[meager kettle]

I may or may not have made nearly 4000 crystal/min to feed 10 industrial storages each with a depot to have a chance to keep up with my blueprints :p

[median heath]

Not even
Straight up just make it an Encased Uranium alt.

[oblique hollow]

oh yeah that could work lol

Encased Ficsonium

[median heath]

Oooo, like Pt Waste + Singularity + Liquid Silicon? Removing the need for DMR?

[oblique hollow]

!!
Quartz Oscillator alt in the blender

with Distilled Silica

kinda like monocrystal synthesis but for oscillators

[median heath]

But.. oscillators need the crystal to... oscillate, no?

[oblique hollow]

yes. you distill the silica and grow it into a monocrystal

you basically turn the silica into oscillator quartz directly from the solution

[median heath]

CB or AIL for the other component?

I want to say CB.

[oblique hollow]

honestly? CB

[median heath]

Because then you could do crazy shit like Distilled Circuit Board -> Monocrystal Oscillator for even more liquid silica shenanigans.