math-and-meta

[graceful tundra]

i suppose 600 MW waste free is decent

[manic goblet]

Especially with the changes in 1.2, it will be interesting to see what people come up with for the various resource node allocations and setting their purity to pure

[vapid gorge]

node purity is pretty meaningless
you can't effectively use all the resources in the world anyway

[graceful tundra]

yeah that was one potential goal, but the theory crafting is just soooo complicated

[vapid gorge]

some people will probably make dumb things with more SAM ore if more spawns, but.. eh. You coudl always mod in more nodes if you really wanted. Or higher mk miners

[mint coral]

I need drone fuel so my next power expansion will be rocket fuel and ill max out a oil node or two. carving put my vehicle needs then generating the rest for power

[mint coral]

vanilla all pure 1.2 will be different too

[manic goblet]

You can, I am just kind of curious how many warp drives would be possible under those different conditions

[graceful tundra]

oh wait yeah i'll need rocket fuel for myself anyways

i can't continue using turbofuel like a peasant

[mint coral]

really depends on how you value sulfur. I have it as a low value so ill go nitro rocket fuel

[graceful tundra]

(which is, funilly enough, not even from my 100 MW turbo fuel plant)

[vapid gorge]

your computer will currently melt if you try to use all the resources w/o everything being pure. You're not going to use all the resources with all pures later

[graceful tundra]

but from this unreadable abomination

that is just a few machines making the basic consumables

but i overthought it

[mint coral]

I dont use moddeler as i dislike it, Im not going to try and read that

[vapid gorge]

you don't need to announce it's an abomination, it's a ss from modeler

[graceful tundra]

huh

this isn't even making turbofuel

[vapid gorge]

share a planner with lables on it

[graceful tundra]

i must still be using regular fuel

[manic goblet]

Oh, I agree, you are going to push UE5 to its extremes if you are going for something like that. Your frame rate will be mush, and how ever many cores are being used are going to be pushing it. I wonder how many threads are being employed?

[graceful tundra]

can't be that bad

[manic goblet]

Some people have really pushed the game already prior to change the node purity and the resource allocation. I don't think it would get any better 😛

[vapid gorge]

people were getting seconds per frame before 1.0 when there were half the resources and fewer tiers

and weren't getting it all

[manic goblet]

They have done a great job optimizing this game, and it is really cool seeing them push the engine

[vapid gorge]

it is not designed for you to plunder and use all the resources on the map

the variety of resources are to give you options in what you can do

[mint coral]

reading this is a lot easier for me.

this is 288gw and you have compacted coal left over to play with

[graceful tundra]

yeah hold on, i'm just trying to make it do what i did

and also, this wasn't a power plant

[mint coral]

i know that, This is a example of ease to read ^_^

I just gave context to the image as well

[vast jungle]

thats quite a bit of Rocket Fuel 🙂

[subtle wasp]

quite a bit doesnt equal enough pal

[mint coral]

288gw worth lol

this happens to be what was open on my tools.

I need half of this

my plan is always to expand as needed.

For rocket fuel this is my plan

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KiMC2ajn9OooWeQnWG3csgfZwU5j11qRiBTSdGtKUNs/edit?usp=drivesdk

producing in 75 oil a minute clusters is the easiest way for me

[graceful tundra]

before 1.0

[graceful tundra]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=9L972GHCHfyvUsYBHyJ1

[graceful tundra]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=9L972GHCHfyvUsYBHyJ1 that doesn't look much better ngl

[mint coral]

oh no

clicking your link overrode my Uranium plan lol

(its fine i backed it up )

[graceful tundra]

don't you have several tabs?

[mint coral]

ya, but for some reason it over road my uranium tab

its fine. I have the link save to a spreadsheet

[unique cypress]

How many tabs do you have open?

[graceful tundra]

odd

[mint coral]

I changed two recipies

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

and limited the uranium to 700 to keep your uranium use the same as you had it

[graceful tundra]

that's not a sharing link, and i did not share an uranium production plant

🤨

[mint coral]

oh, that confusing my bad

[graceful tundra]

or did i

[graceful tundra]

i didn't, i shared the homing rifle thingy

[mint coral]

no you didnt im confusing my self

we were taljking about power so i assumed it was power i was looking at when i clicked a shared tab

and ignored the ammo shared tab

[graceful tundra]

oh lmao

[mint coral]

thats a lot of work for munitions lol

[graceful tundra]

that's not just rifle ammos

[mint coral]

i saw the filters too ^_^

[graceful tundra]

that's also explosive rebar, gas filter, iodine filters, and cluster bomb

[mint coral]

yup, munitions and filters ^_^

[graceful tundra]

tbf the default path is even worse

[mint coral]

for sure

[graceful tundra]

actually, nvm, i had just forgotten to remove a few restrictions

[wind spade]

Shouldn't

[mint coral]

It didnt I got really confused lol

as per usual

user error

[cosmic belfry]

ok this does not seem worth the effort lol do I just disable the base high speed connector recipe?

[mint coral]

are you trying to use both recipes lol ?

[cosmic belfry]

not on purpose lol that's just what was suggested

[mint coral]

ah, yes then just turn off the recipe you wish not to use

[cosmic belfry]

there are too many alt recipes this is hurting my brain

[mint coral]

i use the search field

[cosmic belfry]

I added all the ones I have access to in my library hmm

but then when I have to choose one of the two on a specific hard drive, I disable the one I didn't pick, and then the calculator changes stuff cause it's missing an alt recipe heh. like the alts all chain into each other

[mint coral]

I guess i go about choosing recipes different.

I take stock of the recipes, and resources i have access to and the resources im willing to get. then i choose the recipes that fit. At that point i work on the math

[wind spade]

it either is processing some byproduct or you're using maximise

[cosmic belfry]

hmm that one just needs quickwire, cable, circuit boards, none of those are byproducts? I mean the calculator is probably right that it's efficient for some reason 😛

[wind spade]

well, share the link if you want me to look at it 🙂

[cosmic belfry]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=b6z42bufOZwBj7hRe2d1

if you feel like it? I'm not too worried about it just seemed funny to me that it wanted half a manufacturer using a base recipe

[wind spade]

ah yeah

it's making use of silica byproduct from alu

since you're not using normal alu ingots

[cosmic belfry]

oh gotcha, I should probably just set the aluminum ingots as an input since I already have it processed

[mint coral]

the more information you feed it the better it maths

[cosmic belfry]

I keep realizing my plans won't work lol there's always one more thing I didn't think of

I just want some turbo motors rip

I'm just gonna make a factory with no alts at this rate 😛

[cerulean stratus]

thoughts on steel cast plate?

[mint coral]

@cosmic belfry have you mathed out 2.min of pasta?

[cosmic belfry]

no lol I was gonna do 0.5 per minute of that one, 1 / min of thermal propulsion rocket, and 2/min of the other two phase 4 things

[mint coral]

you need 1000 for phase 5 pasta

[cosmic belfry]

that sounds like a problem for future me XD

[mint coral]

fuck that guy right !!!

[cosmic belfry]

automating the phase 4 parts at all is better than what I did in phase 3

[mint coral]

(something i say often and always regret)

[cosmic belfry]

I figured just automate some small amount to get it done over a few hours while I explore and mess with more fuel gens was fine but maybe I should double everything

[mint coral]

honestly once oyu hit phase 5 there is no rush. .5 .min is fine as ther eis nothing to unlock once you hit phase 5

and do t9

[cerulean stratus]

steel cast plate actually saves a bit of iron

[cosmic belfry]

I might do 1 / min, if I sloop it that's not too terrible

[mint coral]

ya this is normal. less of a resource because you added another

[cerulean stratus]

It's a bit better than using steel pipes comparing to iron pipes, but even then steel pipes are simpler

[mint coral]

thats the power usage pre sloop

[cosmic belfry]

yeah I saw it's like 6k slooped with no OC?

[mint coral]

sounds right

[cosmic belfry]

not sure how the range aspect of it works but I'll figure that out later lol

just assume it's at 1500 XD

[mint coral]

just over build power lol

[cosmic belfry]

I got sick of placing fuel gens 😛

I have like 14k right now, max usage is 8k?

[mint coral]

Particle accelerators make my max power consuption very by 2gw and im only using them for plutonium atm lol

[cosmic belfry]

I can overclock everything that powers 40 gens though

[vast jungle]

you can just add a few more Power Storage units and then ignore the spikes and just look at the average

[mint coral]

naw, i just over build power. when i get to 15gw remaining ill build another power facility

[cerulean stratus]

steel rod is such a good recipe...
Any reason to use it? It's normally good for modular frames, but since the one with pipes requires less rips, it ends up requiring much less iron

[mint coral]

im a alum rod kinda guy

[mint coral]

if you have steel though, use steel rods

I take inventory then choose my recipes based on the resources i have and the resources im will to get

[wind spade]

screws

[cerulean stratus]

steel screws are a bit too op to not use imo

[wind spade]

steel rod -> base screw is even cheaper

[graceful tundra]

till you enter late game and run out of coal lmao

dunno how bad it is tbh, i'm only extrapolating

[wind spade]

unless you try really hard, you won't run out of anything

[cerulean stratus]

it's actually not that bad. Oil replaces coal for most things, so it's not actually an issue, and you get even higher belt speeds and all

it's way more of a problem early game, since you're using coal for power, coal for tractors, coal for steel

[wind spade]

there's 42k coal on the map, surely you won't run out of it even early game

[latent tide]

what even is this app
ive had enough of calculating everthin in my head

[cerulean stratus]

the issue is not map terms. In phase 1 you're mostly in one place, in phase 2, you now want a place for your power where there's water and coal and a place for your steel where there's coal and iron

[wind spade]

can use https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/

the app is modeler, but it requires a lot of micromanaging, so if you don't want to do that, the link I sent above is a faster alternative

[cerulean stratus]

satisfactory modeler

[wind spade]

that's self-imposed issue

[latent tide]

nah i just need it for small things, not the whole factory lol

[wind spade]

Tools can do small things as well 🙂

but choice is yours obviously

[cosmic belfry]

good lord I see why people like the recycled plastic/rubber recipes

[vast jungle]

yeah, HOR-D(P)F-Recycling is insane together 🙂

[cosmic belfry]

I'm only missing recycled plastic which is of course the one I need way more of

I can just save scum and reroll hard drives lol hmm

[mint coral]

Or you can upload your save to scim and unlock the recipe. Saves you time for the same effect

[cosmic belfry]

true

[wind spade]

faster is to get more drives

or yeah, cheat the recipe if you want it so much

[cosmic belfry]

I have like 25 to reroll

[wind spade]

yeah, but if you get the recipes now, you won't have to repeat it next time you want to find a recipe

[cosmic belfry]

true

[wind spade]

and you can get all recipes anyway

[mint coral]

I of the mind set of get it the quickest way possible (just starting with all the recipes via ags) or doing it legit and finding all the harddrives. not bothering with rerolls either way

[dull dagger]

excuse me what how do you do that 🤣 do you unlock it from the same page as the interactive map ?

[mint coral]

Ya there is a world settings. Thing

[wind spade]

yeah it's basically a save editor, so you can cheat to your desire

[dull dagger]

good to know when I start collecting hard drives on this new save

my last run when I beat it I wasnt scanning hard drives as often as I should have been so it was a lot harder to snipe specific recipes so Im gonna try scanning very early and as often as possible this run and see how that goes before I resort to alternative methods lol

[cerulean stratus]

not exactly, you'd need to handle transports between multiple bases for that, and at that time you only have tractors

[wind spade]

nothing says you need transport between them. Coal power can work without transport, factories as well (depots are available very early)

[wind spade]

if you have clean pool, then you never need to search for new recipes between old ones 😛

[dull dagger]

true that, I've never had a clean pool before so going to try that before advancing my tiers this run

[wind spade]

another advantage is that you have all the recipes available and can always pick based on location and preferences, rather than "well, I could use iron wire here, but I don't have it and don't want to bother with rolling for it"

[cosmic belfry]

man I was just gonna make a turbo motor factory but I realized I gotta figure out plastic first

[mint coral]

I dont change phases until I have all available recipes. The mam will tell you when you hit this point

[cosmic belfry]

that would have been smart

[dull dagger]

it returns the hard drive to you right? That's what I read anyways

[mint coral]

it wont let you scan it if you cannot learn anything

[cosmic belfry]

jeez the combo with HOR, diluted packaged fuel, and recycled plastic/rubber takes it from 1800 crude to 400 needed

[mint coral]

Your phase four right? You could simplify it with blenders making diluted fuel

[cosmic belfry]

don't have that one either

[cosmic belfry]

this is just too many things overlapping I don't think I can plan for all this plastic and rubber ahead of time I should just make a bit for now or something

[wind spade]

the packaging loop is not really a big deal if you build it as a blueprint

[graceful tundra]

you wanna know something even better? with the lategame setup you can make a system overbuilt on both sides to produce a wide range of plastic and rubber

[mint coral]

I didn't need any plubber outside of my fuel production until phase 4. When I did i processed on oil node

[cosmic belfry]

yeah I'm in phase 4 now and I need shitloads of plastic and a bit of rubber

[mint coral]

I needed the opposite. My entire world uses 50/min plastic lol

[cosmic belfry]

wtf how

[graceful tundra]

lmao

[mint coral]

I skipped plastic entirely in phase 3

[cosmic belfry]

you just don't need circuit boards or computers?

even the alts need plastic wtf lol

[mint coral]

All my computers, and super computers are made with caterium and quartz

[wind spade]

well, for those I'd make separate plastic 🙂 and wouldn't consider that as "plastic production"

[mint coral]

Supercomputer needed some plastic

Hence the 50min world wide

[cosmic belfry]

how can you say you skipped plastic if you're using plastic heh. I guess circuit boards have two other alts

[wind spade]

I'm not saying I skipped plastic

[cosmic belfry]

I'm just gonna end up playing something else soon I don't want to go explore for even more hard drives and without the recycled recipes planning for phase 4 is insane

[mint coral]

this was my phase 3 no plastic facility

#math-and-meta message

[wind spade]

I'm just saying that for me, "producing X" means "X is final product and goes to storage". So if I have iron plates being made, but immediately converted to reinforced plates, I don't count that as "producing plates"

[cosmic belfry]

fair enough

[mint coral]

I didnt want to ship plastic so i just used the quartz i had locally

[cosmic belfry]

i need lke 1k plastic / minute even with the caterium circuit board recipe lol

[mint coral]

When I upgraded the phase 3 facility to make super computers I processed just enough oil in blue crater for the super computers.

Which was the plan all along

The infrastructure was there is just needed the plastic and the recipe.

[cosmic belfry]

yeah I have no idea how you'd do this lol must need like every alt recipe

[mint coral]

Caterium circuit boards and crystal computers

Wiki is down or id share it

[cosmic belfry]

lol yeah I think I'm taking a break can't even use the wiki rip

didn't build anything at all today 😂

[wind spade]

can use tools 😛

[cosmic belfry]

I'm trying to lol I keep going to the wiki to see how alts compare to the base recipes

[wind spade]

yeah, tools have codex

[cosmic belfry]

I think I'm kind of just fucked unless I want to build 60 refineries to use 1800 crude for plastic and rubber

[cosmic belfry]

ahh okay ty

[mint coral]

It was pretty simple. Step one

What do i want

Then I look at recipes and pick one with the resources I have access to. Quartz was the obvious answer as there was many nodes near me I was not using

[dull dagger]

SCIM has something similar

[cosmic belfry]

yeah I want rubber and plastic but the normal recipes are brutal

[dull dagger]

It's under Game Resources and then Items

[cosmic belfry]

the HOR byproduct from that many refineries is more than I'm using total so far to make packaged fuel

maybe I just need to do one full oil node worth of plastic and repeat later or something

[mint coral]

There is lots of oil in the game

[cosmic belfry]

yeah that's true. I'm just thinking in circles lol

[dull dagger]

this game will do that to you, it's better to not second guess yourself lol

[cosmic belfry]

idk how to stop lmao I've been doing good at not overthinking too much but phase 4 is wrecking me

[robust girder]

is there a way to change the final desired outcome from 10 to 20 smart platings? I cant seem to change that, only the limit but that does not affect the produciton line beforehand in modeler

[cosmic belfry]

I have a bad habit of overplanning stuff in general heh

[dull dagger]

there is unlimited resources so if something isn't as efficient as it should be you can always delete it. That's my way of looking at it

I was so proud of my first factory just to delete everything and move away from Grassy fields 🤣

[wind spade]

why delete?

[ionic sapphire]

aestethics, you wouldnt get it

[dull dagger]

I wanted more pure nodes centralized and it looked like a mess

[ionic sapphire]

[cosmic belfry]

maybe like this to cover me for now and use two pure nodes?

I wish I thought of this before I made a bunch of heavy oil residue refineries, the byproduct is so much fuel lol

[wind spade]

I mean if you're going to build elsewhere anyway, just slap a few depots on it, you won't be looking at it anyway and at least it makes resources 🙂

(also pure nodes are kinda weird to aim for, given you can't fully use them until lategame)

[dull dagger]

that was my point, I wanted to future proof the factory that way I minimize my deletions 🤣

[cosmic belfry]

okay I think this will work, I can use a third pure node to end up with 1000 plastic and 200 rubber which covers everything I need in phase 4 hmm

[wind spade]

yeah I wouldn't recommend future-proofing, but it's your save so 🤷

[dull dagger]

there is not one path to success 🫡

[wind spade]

for sure. Just usually future-proofing is met with burnouts and later realisations you didn't future-proof enough or did too much

[cosmic belfry]

lol yeah I think I'm being riduculous trying to plan ahead

if I just made some shitty turbo motor plant and container fed it my stored up plastic and rubber I'd be way ahead lol

[wind spade]

usually I'd recommend building only what you need now, and leave future for future. Planning ahead imo only really works if you have your entire save planned from start

[cosmic belfry]

I mean, I kind of need everything in phase 4

but when you're new trying to shove it all in a planner is kinda nuts I shoulda just done turbo motors and left the rest as a problem for future me

[wind spade]

yeah, but the point is that you don't know how much of what, and where, and in which amounts on how many belts

[cosmic belfry]

I mean I figured it out but I've been planning stuff for two days now instead of playing

[wind spade]

especially if you're doing independency

[cosmic belfry]

I was like, I need some turbo motors for storage, so I'll figure out all the phase 4 production chains that need turbo motors and make some extra for storage

previously I just made a factory for everything new and then made more of those parts when something else wanted them, that's a much less stressful way to do it lol

[wind spade]

well, obviously each person is different, but personally I do recommend making everything from scratch

[cosmic belfry]

as in, if you unlock something and want it automated, just make a small factory for it to send to storage / sink?

that's what I've been doing all playthrough idk why I went all planning crazy in phase 4 😂

[wind spade]

yeah, and that factory makes it from raw resources

in the end you'll build same amounts of buildings anyway (if you want same final output)

[dull dagger]

thats how i ended up beating it first time. A bunch of small modular factories. I'm gonna try and make a mega factory this time and see how it goes. RIP to my frame rate come phase 5 🤣

[cosmic belfry]

a bit excessive

[cosmic belfry]

hmm idk what I was thinking, that it would be easier to just have one extra building in the middle of a production chain?

[wind spade]

RIP not only your framerate, but also sanity

[brisk urchin]

yesnt

[cosmic belfry]

I guess the time it took me to plan just made it way less efficient than building a simple factory for batteries, super computers, electromagnetic control rods, radio control units, fused modular frames, turbo motors, cooling system, all that stuff

[brisk urchin]

planing is half the fun

[cosmic belfry]

I'm being too OCD about it though lol it's getting frustrating

[brisk urchin]

yeah i also am freaking out from time to time asking the game why it doesnt have more sulfur on the map

[dull dagger]

im hoping the randomization is gonna make it easier. I got lucky and everything seems like it spawned in my starting area. I also have a couple of pure sam nodes so I might end up doing a lot of conversion

[formal willow]

What's the meta for tier 2 limestone automation

[wind spade]

there's not really much "meta" in this game, you have options and they are all viable

[oblique hollow]

limestone > constructor

[formal willow]

K thanks

[sterile magnet]

is this really the shortest way for adaptive controle units?

[wind spade]

"shortest"?

first one is with base recipes, second one with "most resource efficient" path.

[sterile magnet]

thank you

[graceful tundra]

there's something i don't get, why would you want to use a block signal and not a path signal?

[graceful tundra]

seems about right

[mint coral]

just got home. from my p3 notes

[mint coral]

block as in a section., seen as a colored block

[graceful tundra]

what

[mint coral]

i am replying to your statment. thats why its a block sgnal and not a path signal

[graceful tundra]

my question is why would anyone use the block and not the path

[mint coral]

path signals slow oncoming traffic while it calculates whether or not if it is safe to proceed.

in short block is faster

[cosmic belfry]

Those seem pretty nice, I seem to have more quartz than I can use

[mint coral]

not space efficient though lol

[cosmic belfry]

I still haven't used any signals at all I gotta make more train routes today

[graceful tundra]

so block will have tighter spacing of train, but you need path whenever there's an intersection? the in game description really makes path sound like block but better

[cosmic belfry]

I just make floating platforms lol space isn't a huge deal

[mint coral]

you got it

[cosmic belfry]

What is it, path into intersections and block out or the opposite?

[graceful tundra]

okay thanks, and also, where do i place them on a track? anywhere?

[mint coral]

this is sdaid factory

[fervent spire]

path in, block out

and then block roughly every ~200m of track through your entire network

[cosmic belfry]

Looks awesome

[mint coral]

the length odf my trains. I generally do one engine to four freight cars

they are directional so the train engine needs to see the front of the sign. the side with two circles

[fervent spire]

I make my tracks by just zooping foundations out to place the supports so I usually just put a block signal every 2 sets of 10 foundations

[graceful tundra]

any way to BP the signs or am i gonna have to manually place them?

seems like you gotta put them in between two tracks

[mint coral]

ive never tried, as i want them 20 or more foundations apart

[graceful tundra]

so wait, if my tracks are 5 foundation each, can i still place the signs 20 foundations apart?

or am i just gonna have to do the track placing by hand? (would be fine tbh)

[mint coral]

Generally speakiong you want your train to fit inside the area between two signal.

as long as a train is within a "block" no other train can proceed into that block

do some testing yourself. Maybe BP's with signazl close together will work. Ive never tried

[graceful tundra]

i do not want signs close thought tbf, i've realised that

[cosmic belfry]

I can't wait to try to add more trains and mess everything up XD

[mint coral]

We all are still learning. The game is complex and all your choices change how you play. Its why its fun.

[blazing vapor]

@vapid gorge and I’ve got another 12 further down the coast hahaha

[vapid gorge]

in general try not to connect up all your fuel systems together

coal generators tolerate a LOT more bullshit piping than any other pipe system will

[blazing vapor]

What do you mean? You mean the water supply for it?

[vapid gorge]

I mean that fluids flow in both directions

connecting up a ton of systems you don't need to connect up will generally fuck things up royally.

coal gens are just very tolerant of bull

making smaller sections independent of each other is

1. easier to debug
2. will hae fewer issues to debug

[blazing vapor]

Oooh I get you. I think the reason I did this was because I didn’t have blueprints yet and I’m stuck with mk1 pipes so I just decided to flood the entire network. I’ll definitely remember this for the next thing that requires pipes 👍👍

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch cg

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=cg

[vapid gorge]

3 extractors to 8 gens is very convenient

and you don't have to have blueprints for things to do them different.
blueprints are very new

hell, just making a blueprint of every machine with power, pipes/belts hooked up saves you time

if you just want some basic connections. Quickly build those

[blazing vapor]

Brilliant. I got banned for three days too for saying someone smells so I’ve had to be winging a lot of stuff I’d have much rather have gotten advice from. You are a lifesaver

[orchid brook]

in it gone be a problem to leave it like this?

cuz if i can change it from now that would be better then 2h later

[vapid gorge]

depends, high flow pipes tend to need to be looped

[orchid brook]

its not an input

[vapid gorge]

ah right, well it's generally not an issue

[orchid brook]

changing it would be sooo annoying

[vapid gorge]

but I've seen people try to set up waste water outputs on aluminium having issues with high pumped outputs

[orchid brook]

its just a fuel setup so HOR to blender nothing spicial

also heared that if i can have a Mk1 pipe i should? i wanna know if that is true?

like if the pipe is only 300 total i should just use a Mk1

[fervent spire]

Nah I don't think it matters. I've been using mk2 pipes for everything since I got them without issues. There can be some weird quirks afaik if you are sending 600 through a 600 pipe that don't happen if you send 300 through a 300 pipe, but there shouldn't be issues sending less than 600 through mk2 as long as the pipe is full

[orchid brook]

ok thanks

but i think i am still use it

for looks and also for troupleshooting down the line if something happens

[oblique hollow]

It does matter.

Dont give fluid the chance to flow faster than it needs to, especially in manifolds

also @orchid brook for reference

Even doing less than 600 in mk 2 pipes can cause weird issues sometimes, so using mk 1 where applicable is always preferable

[brisk urchin]

i see your reasoning and also think that helps for troubleshooting sometimes but i personaly had never that much problems with backsloshing

[oblique hollow]

Varies case by case

Unless everyone builds the exact same way, variance is what makes it so unreliable to say "i never have issues with backflow or slosh" and then take that as some kind of fact

In your specific pipe networks, maybe.

But in other pipe networks it very well could be causing trouble

[brisk urchin]

yes i understand

maby its because i always have an order and have rules while building with pipes

im sometimes extremely strict if im being honest

[oblique hollow]

Pipes themselves are quite strict in what kind of network layout they do allow

Im still convinced its a bit too restrictive in terms of buiding freedom. In the practical and aeathetical sense

Their rules make certain layout / buildstyles really unfavorable or hard to work with

(Im not arguing they should be belts, but they certainly should allow for some more freedom with how you wanna design factories)

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/68b22be2dbe2e46a549b0664

[orchid brook]

Thanks

[robust girder]

So, for 8 Coal Plants I need 3 Water Pumps for 360l/min. T1 Pipes can only process 300l/min, right?
Any other solution besides waiting for T2 Pipes or using less Coal Plants (or 1 more pump) for the initial setup?

[outer vale]

arrange the pipes so you're not trying to feed it all through any one segment

!wikisearch cg

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=cg

[robust girder]

Ah I see, ty

[wind spade]

you need 3 extractors but don't really need any pumps unless going up

[graceful tundra]

Interesting, i chose the first design, i had no idea the second was possible

[outer vale]

they're not exhaustive, just examples. any setup that doesn't require pushing more than 300 through a segment should work (though pipes do be pipes)

[graceful tundra]

Those three are definitely the nicest, but now i have a feeling i light loose hzlf an hour making an echaustive list because yes

(With the assumption that the pipes behave, for once)

[outer vale]

tbh I prefer the option of 1x 75% extractor -> 2 gens, as it's tileable and just bypasses the flow thing entirely

[sly rivet]

Can someone help me out, im going to be making a very strong power grid and i was wondering how good rocket fuel is for generating power

[vast jungle]

its really good... less complex than Nuclear and easier to handle than (turbo-)fuel, because its a gas and doesn't care about headlift... just be prepared for LOTS of Fuel Powered Generators

[sly rivet]

dw im not bothered about generators

[vast jungle]

then you think you are prepared for them 🙂

[sly rivet]

how much does the average plant make

[vast jungle]

define "average" in this context

[sly rivet]

from 1 source of nodes

[outer vale]

pretty easy to make on the order of 100GW without too much input

exact numbers depend on exact inputs and recipes

[vast jungle]

I think my powerplant in the last game had 100-150 GW

[sly rivet]

oh ok thanks for the help

[vast jungle]

details are (as always in Satisfactory) variable and complicated 😄

[knotty bay]

Would this Water tower do what I want it to do?

[oblique hollow]

Closed valves are no longer that reliable for this trick

And there is no replacement

[knotty bay]

No longer reliable in what wat?

[oblique hollow]

It just doesnt transmit head lift when closed

It can sometimes work but again, no longer reliable to get it to work

[sterile magnet]

should I quit?
bc I don't want to build this

[oblique hollow]

Use more blueprints to reduce how much you have to build manually

[sterile magnet]

okay but i only have the mk1

[oblique hollow]

And?

Better than manual placement of everything

[sterile magnet]

i know

but still

[worldly jackal]

he knows bro

[knotty bay]

In stable or 1.2 Exp?

[oblique hollow]

Both

[worldly jackal]

how was this map made?

[sterile magnet]

not very clean 🙂

[sterile magnet]

or do you mean what did i use to make that?

[worldly jackal]

yea😭

[sterile magnet]

steam

it's very easy to use and you can adjust everything

[worldly jackal]

tysm

[sterile magnet]

np

[brisk urchin]

this is the very start of the midgame

[sterile magnet]

okay but i'm playing with someone and when he is online he is just afk and is watching me build and it kinda frustates me that the only thing he build is concrete so that's why i don't want to build this

[brisk urchin]

start small with part factories

try starting with a plastic and rubber factory

and then work your way into the electronics

it becomes simple if you take it in steps

[sterile magnet]

i have a small one but not enough for this build

[brisk urchin]

what alternate recepies do you have with oil?

[sterile magnet]

none i think

[brisk urchin]

try geting heavy oil residue, diluted packaged fuel, recycled rubber and recycled plastic

with this recepie combo you can turn 1 oil into either 3 rubber or 3 plastic

[sterile magnet]

okay thx

what should i choose i really don't know

[mint coral]

you can and likely will unlock everything, both are good. just choose one

[sterile magnet]

i already have cast screw

[outer vale]

that sounds like an interpersonal problem rather than a game problem. if they're not pulling their weight, either get them to or kick 'em out.
if they're not doing anything they're not learning, so they'll just be dead weight as you progress further

[sterile magnet]

ik but i like playing with someone

[outer vale]

may be a bit too trial-by-fire to tell them to build that whole thing instead of you, but maybe task 'em with a subsection

[outer vale]

"playing", doesn't sound like they're actually playing really, you could probably just screenshare to the same effect 😅

[sterile magnet]

he just says good luck and is going to play smt else

[sterile magnet]

true

[wind spade]

pick one you like or flip a coin

[sterile magnet]

okay what is head and what is tails

[worldly jackal]

sounds kinda sad but its true

[wind spade]

flip a coin for that

[worldly jackal]

atleast the person is making company i guess

[sterile magnet]

you can choose what is heads

[sterile magnet]

yh kinda but he is like 90%afk when he is online

[worldly jackal]

damn :-(

[sterile magnet]

and even being online is rare for him like maby 30min/day

[knotty bay]

Could you point me in the direction of a source on this btw?
I can't seem to find any mention of this online

[oblique hollow]

there is none.
Thats just from trying

feel free to test it yourself - just might work

[obtuse cradle]

can someone help me with train signals i have a question

[oblique hollow]

just ask your actual question

[obtuse cradle]

an intersection like this how do i do the signals for it

[outer vale]

either path in block out, or just block in block out

[obtuse cradle]

i do not have a clue what u mean by that 💔

[sterile magnet]

is the heavy encased frame good?

[ionic sapphire]

path signals going into the intersection
block signals coming out of the intersection

"the intersection" being the whole thing displayed on your picture

[obtuse cradle]

if i do that it just says signal loops into itself

[ionic sapphire]

pick it up and move it away from the previous place a bit

[outer vale]

you might need to push the signals slightly away from the junctions, i gather there's a bug in 1.1 (and maybe 1.2)

[unique cypress]

very

[obtuse cradle]

why is it telling me signalling error when there are no signals that are broken

[unique cypress]

could be backwards

[obtuse cradle]

i flew around and checked

is it that my path blocks are waiting for path reservation?

[unique cypress]

signalling error just means that the train could get to its destination if there were no signals, but it's currently completely impossible because of signals

[obtuse cradle]

looks like its working

[unique cypress]

that's the default state of them

[obtuse cradle]

uhh

if i have a world wide grid could it be a signal even past the station?

[outer vale]

if the message is literally "waiting for path reservation" then that's normal

[obtuse cradle]

the issue is my train has a signalling error

[outer vale]

what's the actual message

[obtuse cradle]

thats what my train says

[outer vale]

pretty sure "a signalling error" isn't the exact text

may be part of it

[lone jewel]

that often means your train station is backwards

[obtuse cradle]

yeah it was

[unique cypress]

Station unreachable due to signalling issue is one of the errors a train can give

[unique cypress]

.

[outer vale]

yeah that was what I was checking, if that's the actual message they were getting

[unique cypress]

I mean I've never seen anything else except "unreachable" and "unreachable due to signalling"

[sterile magnet]

do you still need these after this phase?

[unique cypress]

Every part that's required for one phase is also required for every subsequent one

[meager kettle]

prob pointing wrong way (the train)

[unique cypress]

Or the station

Or some signal

[meager kettle]

signalling error usually means a signal is preventing train to travel in the direction. "unable to reach station" usually mean stations backward. like 99 times out of 100 :p

[silent scarab]

2x 50.5%  6.0794434621816 MW [x2 = 12.1588869243632 MW]```
underclocking is always more power efficient than overclocking

i have a version for somersloops, wip

kind of

[oblique hollow]

overclocking was never ever power efficient anyway

[vast jungle]

its a tradeof between production speed and energy requirements per produced part

[silent scarab]

yup

[vast jungle]

would be quite game-breaking otherwise ^^

[unique cypress]

You can see this better when you divide the power consumption by the clock speed

Then the graph becomes energy consumption per item produced

[silent scarab]

noted

[manic goblet]

You get this deviation from baseline at 100% clockspeed

At 250%, items are ~33% more expensive to produce, and at 1%, they are ~75% cheaper to produce

[vast jungle]

this curve has some error in its presentation

<@&387163995947270144> spam

@manic goblet the curve on the left side should continue to go down... to show how much energy you need compared to 100%

[manic goblet]

I could do that, I flipped the equation juts to keep it positive to show the two regions of over and under clocking next to each other

Less than 100 is savings and great is cost

[vast jungle]

I think not flipping it would be better, currently I think its confusing because left and right part of the curve say something different with their f(x) value

[vast jungle]

I would suggest removing the "100-" as well

so that the curve hits f(100%) = 100%

[manic goblet]

You want it to just have a range from 0 to 2.5 so I am using the actual decimals compared to a percentage?

[vast jungle]

just personal opinion... make X the percentage you add into the overclocking and Y the percentage each item costs... with 100%/100% the standard value. I think this will require the least explanation. Maybe a mark for the 100/100 point could be added later.

[silent scarab]

personally i had to take a closer look to see what is what, though #math-and-meta message made it a lot clearer, i would flip it on the y axis, more power -> up, less power down, where clock is the x axis, like i did,
nice math

[vast jungle]

it will most likely result in a curve similar to this https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Clock_speed#/media/File:Satisfactory_constructor_overclock.png
just the y-axis not multiplied by the Constructor standard power consumption...

[silent scarab]

it is (the same)

[vast jungle]

if not I would be concerned about the wiki graphics 😄

[manic goblet]

This isn't an actual graph of power consumption, it is the percent difference in power savings, between the the same number of items being made at the target clockspeed versus 100% clockspeed

[silent scarab]

efficiency

[silent scarab]

makes a little more sense now

oki

[manic goblet]

Items incur a ~33% higher power cost at 250% clockspeed and have a savings of ~75% at 1% clockspeed

[unique cypress]

anyone want to guess what this graph is?

[vast jungle]

distributing something over multiple machines?

[unique cypress]

should've posted this one instead XD
this one's cursed

[silent scarab]

bouncing

[manic goblet]

It looks like damping in a system

[vast jungle]

ball bouncing of the ceiling because of misbehaving anti-gravity generator?

[unique cypress]

the difference in power consumption between underclocking all machines equally vs leaving them all at 100% when you need fractional machines

the second one is similar but you're underclocking one machine instead of all of them

[manic goblet]

Maybe this is a bit better chart; thanks for the feedback. This shows the adjustment to the amount of power consumed at various clockspeeds when compared to machines operating at 100% clockspeed.

If you take a constructor running at 100% that uses 4MW...

For 2 machines running at 50% clockspeed, you use 20% less power compared to a single machine running at 100%: 3.2MW versus 4MW.

For 1 machine running at 250% clockspeed, you use 34% more power compared to 2.5 machines running at 100% clockspeed: 13.4MW versus 10MW.

[mighty tusk]

Whats a good amount of Radio Control Units and Super Computers to make when building their factory for the first time

Ive never been this far so I dont know whats good numbers lol

[outer vale]

"as much as you need right now"
there's no universal numbers, as it depends on your future usage which you likely don't know yet

doesn't really matter if you make the "wrong" amount so don't stress it - if you make more than you need you can sink it, if you make less you can just build more later when you do know how much more you need

[mighty tusk]

Im also planning Supercomputer and 10/m seems a little much in terms of buildings lol

Well imma make 20/min after looking at what it gets used for

that uses all the aluminum casings I am making already so I need to maybe make some more

10/m Supercomputers seems like way to many lol

So its mostly building item

[prisma kraken]

Where the RCU's are really needed are 1) turbomotors and 2) nuclear pasta. you can kind of guestimate how many RCU's you need as using those things as 1:1 proxies

there's a few other alts that use them (i.e. overclocked supercomputer), but such recipes are very aluminum heavy and the rcu's add to that

[limpid vapor]

yeah you dont need a lot of supercomputers

my setup for the late phase 4 parts is such (i sloop them too) and its easily enough to cruise through phase 5, most of these are not really used a lot, if your goal is simply to beat phase 5

[prisma kraken]

Well, depending on your difficulty settings, lol

[limpid vapor]

i am assuming if someone is asking something like that, they are probably playing normally xd

some of ya'll really like torture

[prisma kraken]

is fun, lol

honestly, i'm really liking the 100x elevator cost. the game is significantly longer with it, but it makes doing the exploration aspects much more important and lets you get away from the factory to do so

[unique cypress]

Actually, I just realised that at 2x cost, the plastic/rubber recipes become completely useless

You turn 12 rubber and 12 fuel into 12 plastic

And then 12 plastic and 12 fuel into 12 rubber

So you're turning 24 fuel into nothing

[covert iris]

I have a 300 pipe going into an industrial fluid buffer. However its only outputting 120. Does the buffer need to be full to have maximum output?

[crimson moat]

Yes, pipes in general do

it's just that smaller pipes tend to fill before you notice it

[vapid gorge]

what's the buffer for?

[covert iris]

Its for fuel generators for Rocket Fuel.

[vapid gorge]

kill it. Buffers don't give you any benefit and can fuck your flow

especially if you use it for gasses

[covert iris]

Ok easy

[vapid gorge]

there's very few places where you actually need a buffer. Basically the only time you should have them.
And that's at train stations

[covert iris]

Im so confused why my generators are not doing anything, Is there some mechanic with Rocket fuel where if theres anything in the lines it doesnt like to flow?

I thought it was a gas. So I have 32 blenders making it. Sets of 4 are summed into one pipe for 300 flow per minute. These are then taken to sets of 24 generators. However at the generators, theres no flow.

[cosmic belfry]

What's the buffer at train stations for?

[vapid gorge]

when trains dock they lock out inputs and outputs, so you need a buffer to to the platforms to catch back up

it's also why you can't move 2 full pipes/belts on a single platform

[vapid gorge]

show some overhead images of your pipe layout, P for photomode

[cosmic belfry]

Hmm so you feed belts into storage that feeds into the station? Is this just for input?

[vapid gorge]

usually you feed 1 belt into a double container, 2 belts to platform.
reverse at delivery

[cosmic belfry]

Alright sounds like a good rule of thumb to keep in mind thank you

[vapid gorge]

save these images to copy for fluid buffers at platforms

#design-and-architecture message
#design-and-architecture message

I'd create exact replicas in a bp machine for convenience

[cosmic belfry]

Will do, much appreciated

I'm gonna have to set more trains up finally lol I still only have one single line

But all this phase 4 stuff at my aluminum factory area needs to go to starter factory

[crimson moat]

disconnected pipe somewhere. It happens usually due to a misclick, but it can be a bug too

just follow the fluid until it stops fluiding

and replace that pipe

[quasi mauve]

i had problems with the crude oil for my rocket fuel plant, everything was correctly done and calculated but for some reason i still didn't get enough crude oil, i recalculated everything and i was correct with all my calculations before. then i found out that i misclicked and didnt run a cable to 1 of the oil extracters..
guys if you are having problems with fluids and flow rates please first check if your extractors are actually working!! life lesson learned here. now i can enjoy my 80.000 mw of power

[limpid vapor]

checklist for everything: power, pipes, conveyors, etc etc

[formal yew]

Does someone know how i would calculate the rate at which i need to produce compact coal to power 12 coal generators using manifolds

[deft lichen]

1. open the wiki to get the burn rate per generator
2. multiply by 12

[formal yew]

ah ok didnt know there was a wiki

[deft lichen]

what game doesn't have a wiki?

!wikisearch CG

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vast jungle]

just make sure you don't get a link to the old "fandom.com" wiki... the new one is on wiki.gg

[formal yew]

yeah ive heard some bad things about fandom

[wind spade]

Or build coal gen to see

[mint coral]

its 3+ years out of date

[vast jungle]

and infested by too many ads

[mint coral]

ill take your word for it ^_^

[frosty owl]

Glances at SCIM with a sigh

[vast jungle]

SCIM gets much better as a Patreon...

[wind spade]

could be like that without a patreon tho 😛

[gaunt bobcat]

loosing my mind handling alum lol. any alternatives or advice? or just pull in some concrete and call it a day?

[wind spade]

loop the water back

[gaunt bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/im-a-little-bit-scared-ttthefineprinttt-im-kinda-terrified-im-slightly-frightened-i-feel-a-bit-of-fear-gif-25902342

[wind spade]

just don't merge it with the fresh water and you'll be fine

[gaunt bobcat]

Will try it thank you

btw love your website ❤️

[lilac locust]

what is the max speed of fluid station unloading? trucks

[prisma kraken]

the transfers now with the belt item truck stations are instant (but there's a stop delay animation). I haven't tried the fluid trucks yet, but i'd bet it is also that way

i.e. there's no knob to set how long vehicles stop at a station and .5 s per stack that requires it

[teal tiger]

can flow rate from pipes only fluctuate cuz of height or also when 2 fluid inputs meet at a junction for example?

[dapper drum]

flow rate can fluctuate at junctions, that's why pipes being full is important

[fossil yarrow]

Given these produce 1 adaptive control unit per minute each, how long will it take to produce 100 given they have no power or supply issues

[slender gulch]

33.33333 minutes

[slender anvil]

Got a question about headlift
I've got my pipes all going up to multiple power generators because it looks cool but im wondering if 1 pump will apply 20m of headlift to every pipe going up or no?

[frosty owl]

Unless you place another pump to reset headlift, headlift is never lost

[fossil yarrow]

Howd u make this?

[crimson moat]

It's only passed on by full pipes, so it can be a bit weird if you have many junctions after a pump. A fluctuation that leaves a pipe briefly 99% full will stop uphill flow until it's back over 100%, and there's much more potential for them with loads of different pipe connections and flow directions.

Also, there's a valve there. Valve can break headlift (2 valves without a machine or pump between them can completely prevent headlift from being forwarded due to a bug, and any valve that prevents a pipe from filling will affect headlift transmission that way)

Also also, those junctions are all vertical, which messes with headlift due to a completely unrelated bug - that can cause unwanted flow prioritisation or blocking. To avoid that, place junctions flat on the floor (so that all connection points have the same height)

Also also also, those pipes are taller than 20 meters after the pump. Might even be 50+?

Regardless of the issue, frequent pumps solve a surprising number of fluid quirks and effectively work around a handful of different known bugs. They're much more effective than valves at doing most valve things.

[proven sphinx]

Hello! anyone here familiar with Satisfactory modeler? and knows some tricks?

my goal is to start at the end and say "i want X parts - what do i need in the step before this "

[ionic peak]

You may be better off using satisfactory tools for that. Tells you exactly which machines and items you need to do. You can also pick the alt recipes you want and it'll calculate the best solution
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[summer flare]

You would start by bringing up the recipe chooser to pick how you would be producing those parts and set the rate limit to the number of parts.
You can then start making connections back from the required inputs to select which recipes you're using to provide those.

[proven sphinx]

only issue here - is that every time i am done with a step i change the recipe by adding input"

Lets say i need to make 1000 plastic - when im done with 1000 plastic i go to input and add 1000 plastic so that i have control over what has been done and everything changes in the vizualisation window (resets)

There is no other way afaik to tell tools "i have done this step"

[wind spade]

Adding input is a way. Though you can also just screenshot it and draw over it in paint lol

[proven sphinx]

Yes ofc - i am using tools for every build i make - and the only thing im missing is "im done with this part" option without the vizualisation resetting every time i add it as a input :P thats why i tried modeler

[wind spade]

Could also drag the done nodes to one side

And it kinda needs to recalculate it if you add input

[proven sphinx]

im not saying it is anything wrong - just explaining what i am missing :P

like - lets say i could doubleclick the circuit board and hit a button that said "i have his item - it should not move only change color and remove the previous steps to get there - for me i love the vizualisation part the most but my ocd wont let me just drag something thats done to one side xD

i love your tools so dont take this as critizism or a complaint

[wind spade]

yeah this has technical issues why it's not really possible (or rather, why it wouldn't work great). Unfortunately it would require large chunk of rewriting to get right. And since I'm working on new Tools anyway, I don't want to spend time on that

[wind spade]

@velvet token re: ^

pick one you like, or one you want to use. If you don't know, flip a coin. You can get all recipes anyway, so there's no harm in picking anything

also, all recipes are good for something

(also, asking in a channel where we can't write is kinda weird)

[velvet token]

Oh i didn't know you could get all recipes anyway... thx!

[wind spade]

@junior wagon (same thing - don't ask in channels where we cannot respond)

as for your question - trains always choose shortest route. This will never work in the way you want it to work

[crimson moat]

That sucks, they should fix that

[sterile magnet]

can someone please help with wich I should choose or rescan

[wind spade]

see my reply just above #math-and-meta message

pick any you want, flip a coin if you don't know

you can get all recipes anyway

and all recipes are useful for something

[sterile magnet]

okay thank you

[junior wagon]

But what is the correct way to make something like this ? 🙂

[wind spade]

you don't. This isn't factorio, we don't build stackers

what do you want it to do?

[junior wagon]

whant to have something like a wait station to enter the station instead of making a long line of trains

[meager kettle]

not possible in the game

[frosty owl]

Choosing an approach that accounts for how trains work (they don't re-path during travel and they don't account for traffic when calculating it, just choosing the shortest path)

[wind spade]

but why? if they are all queueing for one station, you have other issues (namely throughput of that station)

[junior wagon]

i have 4 stations ahead all for dif things to transport

[wind spade]

make a line in front of each station

trains will queue for separate stations in separate lines

[junior wagon]

i will take a look 🙂

[haughty oasis]

how much uranium + plutonium and ficsonium fuel is possible in all pure ressource setting, and how do i enter this fuel calculation correctly in satisfactorytools calculator

[graceful tundra]

you just look at the amount of nodes available, multiply that by the output of a mk3 miner overclocked to the max on a pure node (1200 iirc), and that's it

[graceful tundra]

oh and ask it to produce fiscsonium fuel rods, increase the number till it tells you it's impossible

[graceful tundra]

or you can use satisfactory modeler on steam to find the max, assuming uranium is the bottleneck and enter that in tools

(spoiler alert, SAM could be the bottleneck with ficsonium)

[unique cypress]

SF Optimizer would be better

[haughty oasis]

ok thanks

[meager kettle]

well 2100 uranium is 50.4 U rods/min, so 6000 would be 6000/2100*50.4 = 144 U rods/min

6000/2100*22.4 = 64 Pu rods

320 Ficsonium

if theres enough other stuff to support that tho i dunno

gonna need a shidload of trigons for that. like 13k-ish

[wind spade]

why not use maximise instead?

[wind spade]

they asked for pure settings

[meager kettle]

yes, pure is 5 nodes a 1200 = 6000

[wind spade]

but you're basing it on the fact that you want to convert all uranium into URods

which may not (and probably won't) be the case

[meager kettle]

what else would you use uranium for?

they asked how much is possible

[wind spade]

fertile

[meager kettle]

and thats the max possible

[wind spade]

you're maxing first step without considering other steps

[meager kettle]

cuz maxing the first step is the most power and thus most rods made

[wind spade]

is most power for uranium, not most power in general

[meager kettle]

fertile makes more plutonium at cost of uranium but comes out as less total power

[wind spade]

but may be necessary to not have waste leftover

[graceful tundra]

i did not know this existed

[meager kettle]

?

[graceful tundra]

nope, it's more power if you do ficsonium as well

[meager kettle]

its not

for normal world, its comes out to like 80gw less in total

[graceful tundra]

i checked, it is

[graceful tundra]

raw, not net

so if the machines draw a ton more, sure

[runic olive]

is by 320 Ficsonium a problem you need more dark meter

[meager kettle]

whats your power number for fertile based on 2100 uranium?

[graceful tundra]

i checked a while ago, fertile vs no fertile

there's no alternate after that anyways

[prisma kraken]

when you sloop the encoders for ficsonium, the main process is DMR neutral. you still need dm crystal for the singularity cells, but the input and outputs for the ikea lamps & rods match up

it also means that you produce 2x the fics rods, which means that you end up doubling whatever power you make from plut rods

[graceful tundra]

actually there's a plutonium fuel unit recipe mb

[meager kettle]

fertile is 22.9 U rods/min which become 30.5 Pu rods which then become 152.5 Fic rods total power is 286250+762500+381250 = 1430MW, compared to not using fertile you get 1470MW, small diffrence, but there is one. Also fertile makes the ficsonium much more expensive to do

[prisma kraken]

in general, you'll make more power by trying to maximize uranium rods and minimizing plut rods

[graceful tundra]

wait what

[meager kettle]

non fertile is 50.4 U, 22.4 Pu and 112 Fic for 1470MW

[graceful tundra]

i swear at some point fertile made sense

[meager kettle]

fertile is fine at small scale

[prisma kraken]

plut rods are extremely expensive to make, and then optionally burn and turn into ficsonium. when you use a recipe chain that turns the uranium waste into the smallest number of plut rods, you make more power than if you try to max out plut rods

[wind spade]

I got to ~2.135TW with all max

[meager kettle]

but it limits the uranium rods you can make to 954 U/min

[wind spade]

(no byproducts apart from power shards lol)

[meager kettle]

cuz the rest has to go to fertile

[unique cypress]

all pure or default?

[wind spade]

pure

no sloops

[unique cypress]

sounds low

[wind spade]

no sinking anything nuclear related

[unique cypress]

it would be even lower if you sank plut

[meager kettle]

6000/2100*1470mw = 4200MW, will require heft slooping on the ficsite ingots

[prisma kraken]

fert uranium with plut pellets doubles the plut pellets made from the uranium waste and will double the plut power you'll have access to. It also ends up giving some really nice numbers for sulfur use

[wind spade]

well idk maybe there's something wrong 🤷 https://beta.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=jc3K80enDbIpCyGjmfPX

[prisma kraken]

that being said, more plut rods per uranium is the opposite direction you wanna go for making a lot of power 🙂

[unique cypress]

no alts is what's wrong lol

[brisk urchin]

u also did ficsonium?

[wind spade]

ah I thought I enabled them lol

so ~3.682TW

though it has power shard byproduct

without shard byproduct, ~3.603 TW

[graceful tundra]

yeah nvm

[meager kettle]

or 4200GW if you sloop the ficsite ingots

[wind spade]

4200MW?

[prisma kraken]

the fert uraium and instant plut cell, and plut fuel unit recipes don't make a lot of sense to use unless you're doing something other than burning the increased yield in power plants

[unique cypress]

instant and unit make sense if you're going for max power

[meager kettle]

infused uranium cell -> uranium fuel unit -> non fissile uranium -> instant Pu cell -> Pu fuel units -> ficsonium -> ficsonium fuel rods = 4200GW

[wind spade]

4200 MW is like two nuclear plants

[meager kettle]

gw*

[wind spade]

ah

[meager kettle]

will cost like 35k sam tho, so slooping is needed

[prisma kraken]

having modelled every permutation of the recipe chain, what happens at around 2000-2500 uranium processed is that aluminum gets very tight for use in processing uranium waste. it gets tighter if you go all the way to ficsonium

[meager kettle]

theres "only" 22k or so on pure world

[prisma kraken]

depending on what else you are doing in your world to use the power, there's only so much bauxite

[meager kettle]

you need a lot of pressure cubes, but should be doable on pure world

[graceful tundra]

with that recipe it actually makes more

i forgot this existed

[prisma kraken]

with that chain pay a lot of attention to the bauxite

[graceful tundra]

if you accept to use pretty much all the SAM off the map

and a shit ton of aluminum

going for U and sinking the PU is the best wasteless way imo anyways

[prisma kraken]

i think you probably want to look at using silica to supplement the alum production as well

[graceful tundra]

yeah i'm going with that for aluminum

even if i won't need it for nuclear

[prisma kraken]

it ends up stretching a lot of resources extremely tight

[graceful tundra]

i just don't see any use for the insane amount of silica we can make

[meager kettle]

17k alu ingots/min to make the ficsite ingots lol. yeah slooping is a must, cuts it down to 8.5k, prob would sloop the trigons too so its down to 4.25k

[prisma kraken]

for me, the lion's share of silica ends up going to HSC's

[graceful tundra]

hey i did not say it was a good idea, just that it was more power

[meager kettle]

i kinda wanna make it

but i prob would add some sloops cause thats silly numbers

[graceful tundra]

idk where you get 17K, i get 8.5

[meager kettle]

320 ficsite fuel rods is 12800 trigons which is 4266 ingots which is 17066 alu ingots

[graceful tundra]

how are you making 320 ficsite fuel rods?

slooping is involved somewhere?

[meager kettle]

from the waste for 64 pu rods/min

6000 uranium is 144 uranium rods which becomes 64 pu rods which become 320 fics rods

[graceful tundra]

and how do you get 64 PU/ min?

[graceful tundra]

oooh, all pure, riiight

[meager kettle]

#math-and-meta message this chain

[graceful tundra]

yeah no now it makes sense, i thought we were using vanilla numbers

[meager kettle]

vanilla is 112 fics rods :p

[graceful tundra]

with this silinesss we get 22K lmao

[meager kettle]

and like 12000 sam + 6000 alu ingots

since theres only 10200? sam, you need to sloop the ingot step

which takes it down to 6000 sam + 3000 ingots

give or take a few

[graceful tundra]

oooh right that's why the max PU chain sucks

imagine slooping 67 buildings

[meager kettle]

yea, fertile making more Pu and thus needing much more resources to refine it into ficsonium makes it kinda bad

[graceful tundra]

actually

only 28 with oc, but how many sloops do these take though?

[meager kettle]

two each

[graceful tundra]

oh 56 is fiiine

[meager kettle]

28.6 if my maffs right. so 29*2 = 58 sloops

[graceful tundra]

but then you loose so many power boosters

[graceful tundra]

not quite

wait actually no lol

28

cos if you sloop you need half the buildings

but that's at least a 20% hit

which kinda sucks

[quiet phoenix]

How would I split 3 ,5/min reinforced iron plates into 5, 3/min plates for a modular frame factory im planning

[graceful tundra]

a chain of mergers, then a chain of splitters, and a bit of patience

[meager kettle]

4266 ingots = 142.2 conevrters, att 250% oc and sloop divide by 5 = 28.6

[graceful tundra]

orrrrr, an overbuilt 5 output splitter for no real reason, other than being very cool

[quiet phoenix]

So a manifold line? Im new to rhe game sorry if its a stupid question

[graceful tundra]

ye

[quiet phoenix]

Thanks

God trynna make it looke nice is gonna be annoying

[graceful tundra]

if you're not gonna limited by a singular converyor's speed, and the output is not a nice ratio, it'll save you some headaches

otherwise you can use the elevator method

[quiet phoenix]

Outputs a nice ratio and i am working at the lcm so everything but the reinforced irpn plates is giving me issues

[prisma kraken]

split 4 ways and clock the machines to 1.25x

[graceful tundra]

3/5, or 5/3 isn't a nice way ngl

[quiet phoenix]

I despise odd numbers now

Even numbers for life

[prisma kraken]

...or 2 ways and clock to 250

[graceful tundra]

downclocking would be a lot easier

[meager kettle]

merge the 3 into one, then split the one into 5?

[prisma kraken]

the clock speeds 125% and 250% turn 5's into 4's

[quiet phoenix]

My energy grid blows up when I turn on the toaster

Im gonna expand it with coal tommorow

[graceful tundra]

that's either 4 or 6 power shards

[prisma kraken]

you can also downclock to 62.5 or 31.25%

[graceful tundra]

for what could be achieved with one more machine

[graceful tundra]

6 is a valid number btw, no need to go to 8

[meager kettle]

one to five splitter

[quiet phoenix]

I was gonna try that but its annoying hauling iron that far

[graceful tundra]

that doesn't solve it

[graceful tundra]

waaait

oh yeah

priority mergers

[quiet phoenix]

I started in fields so theres no good iron

[graceful tundra]

that's what whoever made the cool elevator splitters used

the elevators where only cos one belt wouldn't be enough

[prisma kraken]

all iron is good iron. the only condition is if it is nearby 😄

[graceful tundra]

transport de chocolatine?

[graceful tundra]

you can also clock 6 machines to 0.8333333333333333, and split in 2 then each in 3, or 3 and each in 2

i'm more of a manifold belt guy for space reasons, but i love splitters

[quiet phoenix]

Alright ill try that tommorow when I wake up and put it on paper factory seems efficient and all good so far

[mint coral]

Since you are at the "preferred"ways to balance, it maybe time to build lol

[graceful tundra]

also because i use stupid ratios

[graceful tundra]

mhm?

[graceful tundra]

oh wait yeah i have 9 oil/ min to spare for turbofuel whoohoo

(i'm using 10 for weapons)

[open carbon]

My fuel plant is giving me anxiety.

I'm starting to think I have a fear of pipes.

[mint coral]

Phobia of pipes perhaps

[graceful tundra]

yeah no pipes are indeed awful

i needed to do the thing on the left to preven sloshing

and i still see the occasional yellow light whenever i come around this doomed place

[graceful tundra]

this recipe suuuuuucks btw

[meager kettle]

fix it with a pump :p

[graceful tundra]

that's not as long

mine is 16 machines long

[meager kettle]

thats 20

[open carbon]

sweet christ.

[graceful tundra]

on two sides, so 10

[meager kettle]

also still 600/min :p

[graceful tundra]

as it is in mine, and i've never had issue with these

[prisma kraken]

I do that build quite often for power. I find it to be nicely buildable if you build it in chunks of this size

[graceful tundra]

despite them 40 on a pipe

wait, so that's 20 on each side, how is that fine

i did do 3 pipes i think

300 + (600 + 300)

[graceful tundra]

turbo blend fuel sucks though

i realised that after making this bs

[meager kettle]

its nice if you wanna save on sulfur :p

[prisma kraken]

i feel it to be the best of the tf recipes, especially when your plan is to do a rocket or ion fuel conversion later

no coal is needed

[vast jungle]

you are out of coal?

[prisma kraken]

i'll let you know when i start making time crystal 😄

[graceful tundra]

it's barely more power than straight up using fuel

well, that's a decent uplift, but for 80 sulfur?

nahhh

not to mention the added pain

and the requirement of a blender (you can do diluted packaged fuel)

[prisma kraken]

in all seriousness, when you're looking at building max ficsonium with a decent elevator delivery rate and some APA fuel on the side, coal gets to be a constrained resource

[graceful tundra]

APA?

[prisma kraken]

power augmenter

[mint coral]

Alien power augmentor

[graceful tundra]

oh yeah

[graceful tundra]

doesn't fare that well when you wann do rocket fuel though

[prisma kraken]

what happens is that you end up getting tugged between all the endgame resources and need to use time crystal to shore up dm crystal production so that you can use sam for things other than residue, and just everything gets pretty tight

[graceful tundra]

(iodized fuel do be a little silly though tbf)

[prisma kraken]

the point of it is to allow synth power shards a sink so you can make more DMR

[graceful tundra]

not quite sure why petroleum diamonds exists ngl

besides waste managment

okay that's a fair use tbf

[prisma kraken]

it makes a bit more power, gives you a little compacted coal to use for turbo diamonds (or steel canister) and kinda allows you to get to the goal

in any event, saving the coal for phase 5 is a thing

[vast jungle]

you can use the compacted coal byproduct to make more Turbofuel for Rocket Fuel

[graceful tundra]

ig, but you can also use the oil for diamonds

[graceful tundra]

and actually, oil for diamonds is pretty good imo

[prisma kraken]

yeah, oil & turbo diamond are both good. if your building goals are ambitious however, you're going to be looking at using both in tandem

[open carbon]

Is it normal for pipe fullness to go up and down? Like empties a little, then fills back up afterwards?

(this pipe isn't a full 300)

[prisma kraken]

if you don't start your system with the pipes completely flooded, yes

[open carbon]

Will the system stop working if it isn't flooded at the start?

[prisma kraken]

no, but i've observed with things like coal plants, sometimes the generators blink on and off because the fluid is sloshing around at the other end of the pipe

[open carbon]

Noted.

Thanks.

[prisma kraken]

np. good building tip is to get your pipes filled as you're building

full pipes are happy pipes as McGalleon would say 🙂

i'll add that it often makes troubleshooting easier

[graceful tundra]

and happy pipe => happy life

[prisma kraken]

that's why you stick the biomass in them 😉

[idle wedge]

so to get rid of all the plutonium waste, you can convert it into ficsonium fuel rods, but there isn't enough SAM to process all of the waste. if you use sloops on the reanimated SAM and Dark matter residue, wouldn't you have enough SAM at that point?

[frosty owl]

If you sloop the refineries, you can use much less Oil with Petroleum Diamonds...
That's about the only positive I see in it 😅

[frosty owl]

Iirc, it should suffice with Sloops

[icy valve]

Honestly what's taking so much SAM is the trigons

[idle wedge]

so it is possible to get rid of all the waste, that's good

[idle wedge]

i'll have to fool around with what's going to give me the most bang for buck ont eh sloops i guess

[icy valve]

Just 70 wastes consume 1725 trigons, that's just insane

But there's also the other things in my calculation though

So in practice, it's impossible to have a 100% use of all uranium and have full nuclear power plant

[rain lichen]

what's the objectively most resource-efficient way to automate plastic and rubber in one factory? (an inequal amount in this case, if that matters)

it's been a while since i played

[frosty owl]

*without Sloops
One just needs the equivalent of ~1k more SAM to process the waste from a 2100-Uranium plant (without slooping any Rods)

[icy valve]

@idle wedge Here's how much trigons you'll need just for 5 ficsonium rod while your powerplant will be insane

[frosty owl]

Recicling recipes are probably what you're looking for

[icy valve]

Share the details for that then, because I'm not seeing that even remotly close to possible

[rain lichen]

so recycled plastic and recycled rubber?

[mint coral]

#math-and-meta message

[graceful tundra]

you can actually build an adaptative factory for that btw

if you consume mor plastic, it'll produce more plastic

[mint coral]

Oil-HOR- diluted fuel(or packaged) then you start the recycled oroboros loop

[rain lichen]

oh fr?

[graceful tundra]

and vice versa

[icy valve]

Yes

[graceful tundra]

but iyy'll need to be very overbuilt

[rain lichen]

i'm working on 60 radio control units/min so i'll probably pass on that then

might have to cut it down a notch honestly i do NOT need this many RCU's

[graceful tundra]

no like, if you wanna do that, you need to have enough of both recycled plastic and recycled rubber refineries to make the max amount you might end up using

[frosty owl]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=HKhyq6KsJUln6VxWuljB
Processing 10 Plutonium Waste takes ~833 SAM/min
Max Plutonium Waste (without Plutonium alts) is 126/min, so that's ~10'500 SAM/min to process it all. There's 10'200 on the map

[rain lichen]

ooh

[rain lichen]

ill play around with this when i get home then

[graceful tundra]

not quite sure

[rain lichen]

right now im planning a phase 4 megafactory spanning basically the entire rocky desert

[graceful tundra]

but you just need the items to go in priority to the refineries

[rain lichen]

as well as ACTUALLY automating the project assembly parts for a change

[olive ferry]

can some one tell me how to make\ a 3 to 4 liquid load balencer

[rain lichen]

so i can comfortably finish phase 5 without plopping down some makeshift machines to finish it up

[graceful tundra]

if you want this setup to work with any amount, you need 7.56 recycled plastic refineries and 7.11 recycled rubber refineries

[mint coral]

I finally started phase parts with the ADS. I built a nuclear plant in the swamp that took up a ¼ of the biome. So I figured id just keep that going

[graceful tundra]

or more, but you get the drill

[rain lichen]

danke

[graceful tundra]

any other requirement?

[olive ferry]

only 2 of the 3 can be put in one pipe

[graceful tundra]

oh, right, well, split one of them, and make each half join one of the other pipes

then split these in two

, or just make a sort of manifold

but you input from 2 machines on one side, and from 1 on the other

[rain lichen]

are pipe load balancers even possible 😭

atleast in the traditional sense

[icy valve]

It's possible to go up to 191.25 plutonium waste by doing some recycling of dark matter (it would need an external injection for startup) but people rarely use the basic recipes but alts since they consume less and have a better output most of the time

[frosty owl]

I don't know what your familiarity with the community is, but Plutonium alt recipes are rarely used here ^^ (and any SF community I've seen, tbh)

[icy valve]

I'm not in any community soo

[frosty owl]

The usual logic is: use as few resources as possible to get rid of Uranium Waste (sinking the Plutonium Rods)

[frosty owl]

So why do you say "people rarely use X"?

[icy valve]

I'm talking in terms of recipes in general

Not specifics about plutonium

[graceful tundra]

naaah this is possible, trust

[frosty owl]

Cutting out the amount of SAM consumed doesn't really make for a great point 😅

[graceful tundra]

wasn't on purpose

[meager kettle]

using all uranium will require sloops to do any waste processing regardless which chain you use. its just the amount you need to sloop which changed

[graceful tundra]

wdym i'm using 80% of all sam?

[frosty owl]

I didn't mean to imply it was xD

[graceful tundra]

that's not an issue at all XD

[meager kettle]

even if you do pellet -> cell -> rod which make the least you still need to sloop one step (ingots is best) to have enough sam for the trigons and the DMR

[frosty owl]

How many Sloops did Converters take again? 4?

[meager kettle]

2

[graceful tundra]

DMR?

[frosty owl]

Eh, not even 30 Sloops for max-Plutonium + Ficsonium plan?
Not even that much IMO ^^

[meager kettle]

20 sloops, 10 fully OC'd converters

slooping the constructors for trigons would be 30 sloops (30 fully OC'd constructors)

[frosty owl]

Dark Matter Residue

[meager kettle]

dark matter residue

if you have some extra sloops, thru various means :p you can sloop the ficsonium rods to make it self sustaining on DMR and get a bit more power :p

but since QEs cost 4 each its kinda expensive

[frosty owl]

I never thought about making the F-Rods DMR-neutral... Worth looking into, since I'm planning for a small Ficsonium anyway (shouldn't need many Sloops)

[graceful tundra]

we don't have enough sloops lol

[icy valve]

Use other resources that produce DMR to make it work

[meager kettle]

there are enough sloops, but you're using like 92/103

72 sloops for the ficsonium rods and 20 sloops for the ingots

which is why i wouldnt do the rod slooping unless i have extra sloops

[graceful tundra]

i'm using 128 here

[prisma kraken]

little misleading to say that. slooping the fics rod encoder reduces that number quite a bit and the DMR needed for dm crystal for the singularity cells can be byproduct from other prod chains. can't get away from the trigon sam, but that's not a whole lot

...additionally, i think your 833.3333 number is really off, even without slooping, i'm coming in a magnitude's difference from that from the brief sketch of the build i just made without using sloops

[oblique hollow]

dont quite me on this but i think Ficsonium is gonna be even worse on 0.25x cost OR on 2x cost

0.25 will not use enough waste and 2x will use too much other stuff

[brave dock]

If I have a belt with some really odd number of items on it, and I want take exactly 10 items per minute off of it, is there a setup for that?

[oblique hollow]

getting exactly 10 requires belt rate splitter magic outside my specialty so my next best guess / answer is "just use an overflow splitter"

[brave dock]

overflow splitter is gonna take literal days or weeks in real time to settle I'm afraid

[oblique hollow]

split a mk 1 belt into 6 parts

merge 5 of the 6 back into one

the last one is 10/min

[brave dock]

Only if the input is 60/min, which it's not. The input is 11.625 per minute

[oblique hollow]

not if you feed the 5 others back to before you split

aaaand you use priority splitters on the mergeback

[brave dock]

oh, the priority mergers might do it

this is what I had come up with so far, and as you see on the measurement thing, it's not working :D

it flickers between 11 and 12

[oblique hollow]

why dont you just fix the manufacturers to make 10/min then

either this belt stuff or that

[brave dock]

I want the full output from them, but I want the extra that goes beyond 10 to go into the dimensional depot

And 10 goes to the train, so I can make fused frames

[oblique hollow]

im afraid if that priority merger thing doesnt work then you are out of options and will have to make a compromise
Unless someone else chimes in with even more absurd belt magic

[brave dock]

So is the stuff being back-fed more important, or the new input? 🤔

[oblique hollow]

feedback

so it chokes the input

i think an extra overflow splitter might be required before the mergers then so it splits off the remaining 1.125/min

[brave dock]

that's the one on the left before the container

I made the merger below it a priority one, that takes priority from the right

[oblique hollow]

you got the order wrong

[brave dock]

yep, I just noticed that :D

[oblique hollow]

the smart splitter comes before the smart merger.
That way, if everything goes right, the splitter feedback thing will slowly accumulate parts

[brave dock]

this way it can never overflow

[oblique hollow]

it will still take an eternity to fill, but its a smaller one then overflow onto a train

at least thats the theory

[brave dock]

I have over 1k of them I can just throw into the machines outputs to saturate it

[oblique hollow]

can just test it with container loops i guess

[brave dock]

that's effectively what it is, yeah

I think this should work

Had to turn all the belts on the left into Mk 1 ones, otherwise the Mk1 one being split would take items too slow, and the overflow splitter overflows just from the Mk5 input delivering faster than the mk1 can take them out

[nova vortex]

if my math is correct cant i place 30 fuel gens bc each one uses 20 fuel a minute and my pipes hold 600. 600 divided by 20 is 30 so can i run 30 fuel gens off one pipe?

[mint coral]

Correct

Personally id divide into two line of 300 using mk2 pipes

[brave dock]

The Mk2 pipe being maxed out can get wonky from my experience

[nova vortex]

thoughtabt that but i need 360

[brave dock]

360 is also fine

I'd just stay clear of depending on 600 going through a pipe reliably

I usually design stuff with the goal of 500 max

[nova vortex]

okay im just tryna keep it as simple as possible since im gonna be placing 360 fuel gens

[brave dock]

overclock them

360 fuel gens with just fuel is kinda insane lol